UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   May

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  May 2000

  May 1:

   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Jim Mortellaro [152]
   Roswell Yet Again - Lan Fleming [51]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown - Humour - Rick Goldsmith [34]
   Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky? - Lan Fleming [14]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - James Easton [80]
   Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky? - Bob Young [19]
   McClendon Study Group - May 3 - ParadigmRG@aol.com [28]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Mac Tonnies [37]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Donald Ledgerdledger@ns.sympatico.ca [49]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Rob Lockhart [36]
   TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.1.00 - Paul Anderson [96]
   Re: What's Up There? - Jim Mortellaro [22]
   Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment? - Marc Bell [13]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Roger Evans [29]
   Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky? - Brian Straight [16]
   Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky? - John W. Auchettl [87]
   'Chuck Shaw?' Flight Director - On STS-75 UFO Video - John W. Auchettl
   [62]
   Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing - John Pierson [40]
   Re: Roswell Yet Again - Bob Young [17]
   Re: - Jim Mortellaro [46]
   Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky? - Larry Hatch [30]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Bruce Maccabee [47]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown - Humour - Jim Mortellaro [46]
   Re: Roswell Yet Again - Mac Tonnies [22]
   Filer's Files #17 -- 2000 - George A. Filer [480]
   Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing - Royce J. Myers III [30]
   Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa - Kenny Young [26]
   Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky? - Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com. [29]

  May 2:

   Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing - Daniel D. Moroff [65]
   STS-75 UFO Video - Rick Goldsmith [47]
   Re: STS-75 UFO Video - Jim Mortellaro [61]
   Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky? - Larry Hatch [79]
   International UFO & New-Age Symposium Istanbul, - Haktan Akdogan -
   UFOTR [51]
   Re: Greek Sense - Sue Kovios [23]
   Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing - Donald Ledger [22]
   Re: STS-75 UFO Video - Donald Ledger [24]
   Re: What's Up There? - Terry Blanton [40]
   Re: Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa - GT McCoy [37]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Joel Henry [47]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Jenny Randles [51]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Jenny Randles [50]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Jenny Randles [31]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Donald Ledger [37]
   Re: STS-75 UFO Video - Rick Goldsmith [36]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Mac Tonnies [30]
   Re: Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment? - Mac Tonnies [19]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Mac Tonnies [29]

  May 3:

   'Hot Balls' Update - Kenny Young [25]
   'Roswell' TV series - Perry Mick [3]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research [58]
   Major New Formation in Tennessee - Paul Anderson [125]
   Re: STS-75 UFO Video - Jim Mortellaro [66]
   Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky? - John W. Auchettl [40]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - GT McCoy [73]
   Re: What's Up There? - Jim Mortellaro [59]
   Mystery light Has Grayville, Illinois, On Alert - Todd Lemire [53]
   Re: 'Hot Balls' Update - Larry Hatch [20]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Joel Henry [87]
   I Think This A Meteor But... - GT McCoy [22]
   Re: What's Up There? - Terry Blanton [44]
   Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky? - Terry Blanton [10]
   My Dream For Richard Hoagland - Ron Cecchini [14]
   Re: I Think This A Meteor But... - Robert Gates [27]
   Re: 'Roswell' TV series - Jenny Randles [22]

  May 4:

   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Bruce Maccabee [27]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Larry Hatch [40]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Neil Morris [42]
   Re: STS-75 UFO Video - Bruce Maccabee [47]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Brian Cuthbertson [23]

  May 5:

   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Larry Hatch [51]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Jenny Randles [45]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Mark Cashman [19]
   Vatican Theologian Agrees With Sitchin's Findings? - Sue Kovios [167]
   Re: My Dream For Richard Hoagland - Robert Gates [51]
   Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Mac Tonnies [62]

  May 6:

   Nick Pope's Weird World (April issue) - Georgina Bruni [108]
   Re: Nick Pope's Weird World (May issue) - Georgina Bruni [108]
   Nick Pope's Weird World (May issue) - Georgina Bruni [108]
   NUFORA UK Conference June 2000 - Carolyn Buckley [9]

  May 7:

   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Ed Gehrman [29]
   Re: NUFORA UK Conference June 2000 - Larry Hatch [16]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Robert Gates [39]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Mac Tonnies [52]
   Re: Vehicle Shutdown? - Steven W. Kaeser [21]
   Re: Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment? - John W. Auchettl [142]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Kurt Jonach [24]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Lan Fleming [44]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Roger Evans [70]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Mac Tonnies [32]

  May 8:

   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Robert Gates [62]
   Quotes - Sean Jones [9]
   Re: Quotes - Serge Salvaille [20]
   Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview - UFO UpDates - Toronto [160]
   NASA Reworking Mars Exploration Plans - Steven L. Wilson Sr [104]
   Filer's Files #18 -- 2000 - George A. Filer [517]
   Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview - Ron Decker [53]

  May 9:

   WBAI Radio 'UFO Desk' Special - Paul Williams [23]
   Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview - GT McCoy [89]
   Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview - Tim D. Brigham [51]
   Re: Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa - Robert Gates [21]
   Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview - Donald Ledger [44]

  May 10:

   Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview - Alfred Lehmberg [51]
   TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.9.00 - Paul Anderson [65]

  May 11:

   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 19 - John Hayes [646]
   Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview - Donald Ledger [85]
   What We Learned Over Area 51 - Blair Cummins [93]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Mac Tonnies [79]
   Dr Schilling, Professor Oberth And UFOs - John W. Auchettl [60]
   UK UFO Conference - 07-16-00 - Roy J Hale [21]

  May 12:

   McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Blair Cummins [158]
   Radioactive Documents At National Archives - Kenny Young [36]
   LH's Email Troubles - Larry Hatch [10]

  May 10:

   Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview - Brian Straight [45]
   Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview - Ron Decker [53]

  May 12:

   Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 11 - James Easton [182]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Ed Gehrman [29]
   Alleged Alien Symbols, Writing And Emblems - Gar Anthony [27]

  May 13:

   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Michel M. Deschamps [18]
   UFO Photo Still Tantalizes - UFO UpDates - Toronto [101]
   Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S Tv - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [75]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Robert Gates [112]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Mac Tonnies [16]
   Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s - Mac Tonnies [22]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Roger Evans [57]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [39]
   Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S - Bob Young [20]
   Petition To Image Cydonia Draws 2900 Signatures In - Lan Fleming [31]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image - Lan Fleming [27]
   Paul Norman Oz Ufologist Honoured - John W. Auchettl [34]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jesus Millan Arias [16]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Serge Salvaille [35]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jim Deardorff [43]
   Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S - Josh Goldstein
   [32]

  May 14:

   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Royce J. Myers III [75]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Michel M. Deschamps [31]
   Cash/Landrum - Sean Jones [31]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [16]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [33]
   Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s - Jsmortell@aol.com
   [28]
   Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 5-13-00 - Rense E-News [222]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Michel M. Deschamps [52]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [131]
   Tonight On WBAI's 'UFO Desk' - Paul Williams [19]
   Tracing Tracy Torme? - Philip Mantle [7]
   Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S - Josh Goldstein
   [29]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Lan Fleming [70]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [72]
   Tonight On 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Ted Phillips - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [37]
   Sightings: Special Guest Update - On The 3rd - Rense E-News [52]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Mac Tonnies [27]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Mac Tonnies [21]

  May 15:

   Microwave Auditive Phenomenon - Joaquim Fernandes [19]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [152]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [19]
   Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'? - Philip Mantle [19]
   Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s - Mac Tonnies [17]
   Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon - Blair Cummins [37]
   Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt - John Velez [60]
   Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed - Mac Tonnies [97]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [25]
   UFO Sighting OZ File 00707 06.05.2000 WA - Diane Harrison Director
   AUFORN [67]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Terry Blanton [3]
   Re: Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon - Jim Mortellaro [50]
   Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt - SMiles Lewis [65]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed - Mike Bara [171]
   Re: Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'? - Mike Beaver [57]
   Filer's Files #19 -- 2000 - George A. Filer [363]

  May 16:

   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - GT McCoy [45]
   TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.15.00 - Paul Anderson [67]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed - Mac Tonnies [82]
   EBE-ET International Bulletin - Brazil - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [725]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt - John Velez [88]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jim Deardorff [18]
   Mars Sky Color - Better Surface Pictures - Holger Isenberg [22]
   P-47: UFO Historical Issue #6 - Jim Klotz [7]
   2001: A Mars Odyssey? - Holger Isenberg [15]
   PRG Programming Announcement - 5/19 - Stephen G. Bassett [37]
   New Year's Sighting Puzzles Australian - Diane Harrison Director AUFORN
   [71]
   Re: Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'? - Roger Prokic [22]

  May 17:

   Paranormal Phenomena Newsletter - 5-15-2000 - Steven L. Wilson Sr [183]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Royce J. Myers III [51]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed - Royce J. Myers
   III [28]
   Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed - John Velez [41]
   2 Million Enrolled - SETI@HOME Reaches First - Nick Balaskas [94]
   "Open UFO Files" - Springfield Experiencers - Blair Cummins [16]
   Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt - Nick Balaskas [19]
   Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos - Bob Young [89]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [17]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - John Rimmer [20]
   2nd Annual IF Conference Report - UFO UpDates - Toronto [236]

  May 18:

   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jerome Clark [20]
   Re: Sightings: Special Guest Update... - Joaquim Fernandes [30]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [33]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [31]
   Posting Protocol - UFO UpDates - Toronto [68]
   RAI DUE and UFOs - Giuliano Jimmy Marinkovicc - AGETI [92]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [24]
   Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos - Bruce Maccabee [48]
   Kecksburg, Pa. - 'The Other Roswell'? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [397]
   Mystery Light Flashes And Streaks In NASA Videos - Nick Balaskas [56]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [14]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jerome Clark [29]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - GT McCoy [43]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [20]
   Re: Re: RAI DUE and UFOs - Alfredo Lissoni [53]
   Re: Trent Video - Bruce Maccabee [14]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 20 - John Hayes [644]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jerome Clark [31]
   Re: RAI DUE and UFO - Jim Mortellaro [68]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [40]

  May 20:

   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [11]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Royce J. Myers III [110]
   Re: RAI DUE and UFOs - GT McCoy [81]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Roger Evans [40]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [27]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [34]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Larry Hatch [56]
   Ohio UFO report - 3-5-2000 - Kenny Young [155]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jim Mortellaro [61]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jerome Clark [43]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - John Rimmer [14]
   Re: Space Debris Rains Down On South Africa - Steven L. Wilson, Sr [24]
   O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes - Steven L. Wilson, Sr [38]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jim Mortellaro [92]

  May 21:

   Eight Objects Orbiting Distant Stars - Steven L. Wilson, Sr [29]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Roger Evans [72]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [23]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - Roy J Hale [8]
   Re: Ohio UFO report - 5-5-2000 - Bruce Maccabee [29]
   Re: O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes - Roy J Hale [16]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jim Mortellaro [60]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [59]
   Religious Experiences - Joaquim Fernandes [18]
   'The UFO-FBI Connection' - #6 On Amazon - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Foreign UFO Theorists Supported - US Repressed - Ignatius Graffeo [207]
   Re: Ohio UFO report - 5-5-2000 - Larry Hatch [26]

  May 22:

   Re: Non-UFO Question - Jean-Luc Rivera [19]
   2 Million Download SETI Screen Saver - Steven L. Wilson [24]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [71]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - Robert Gates [23]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [142]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Gordon German [48]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - Philip Mantle [28]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - Philip Mantle [28]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Steven W. Kaeser [11]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Roger Evans [70]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [55]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [29]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [81]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - Steven Kaeser [32]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [20]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [89]
   Re: Ball Lightning Suspected In Mischief - Kenny Young [53]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [81]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - Jim Mortellaro [69]
   Filer's Files #20 -- 2000 - George A. Filer [451]
   Re: TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.22.00 - Paul Anderson [86]
   Alien Hypothesis... - Jim Mortellaro [49]

  May 23:

   Re: Non-UFO Question - Daniel D. Moroff [28]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Roger Evans [89]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Michel M. Deschamps [25]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [32]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [55]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Donald Ledger [91]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jerome Clark [34]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - John Pierson [13]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [245]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - Jim Mortellaro [37]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [364]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - Steven Kaeser [24]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [172]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [52]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Royce J. Myers III [84]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [173]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - Royce J. Myers III [24]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [35]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [57]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Nick Balaskas [44]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [57]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Roger Evans [77]
   Re: What's New At Project 1947 - Jan Aldrich [113]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Roger Evans [31]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Roger Evans [46]
   What's New At Project 1947 - Jan Aldrich [113]

  May 24:

   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [21]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jerome Clark [55]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Donald Ledger [51]
   Other Intelligences? - royjhale [5]
   CPR-Canada News: 'Fields of Dreams and Strange - Paul Anderson [92]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bob Young [88]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Dennis Stacy [30]
   A Year In The Live of Mars - UFO UpDates - Toronto [35]
   Re: What's New At Project 1947 - Asgeir W. Skavhaug [88]
   Virus Watch! - Larry Hatch [25]
   Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000 - Don Ecker [52]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - John Rimmer [18]
   Re: Non-UFO Question - John W. Auchettl [36]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [37]
   Re: Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000 - Alfred Lehmberg [110]
   The COMETA Report - Stan Friedman [15]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Steven Kaeser [16]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - James Easton [121]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - James Easton [57]
   Re: Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000 - Rebecca [9]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [180]

  May 25:

   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Roger Evans [49]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [141]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [32]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Michel Algrin [33]
   Re: Re: The COMETA Report - Steven G. Bassett [55]
   Happy Birthday... Belated - And A Question - Jim Mortellaro [38]
   Stan Deyo - A Lecture Night In Queensland, Oz - Diane Harrison Director
   AUFORN [49]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Stan Friedman [66]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5 Number 21 - John Hayes [564]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [92]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - John Rimmer [26]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - John Rimmer [13]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Steven Kaeser [29]
   [canufo] AQU-QAU Sighting Reports - Gilles Milot [23]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [25]

  May 26:

   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [170]
   NUFORA Conference Cancelled - Carolyn Buckley [4]
   Re: The COMETA Report - David Rudiak [36]
   Trenta Luna, Medzu Mare... Basta - Jim Mortellaro [23]
   PRG Press Release- 5/26/00 - Paradigm Research Group [52]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Steven W. Kaeser [40]
   Browse 20,000 New Additions To Mars Gallery - NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
   [102]
   Re: [canufo] AQU-QAU Sighting Reports - Gilles Milot [32]
   CAUS Files Appeal Notice - UFO UpDates - Toronto [40]
   Two Million Watch For ET - UFO UpDates - Toronto [25]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Terry Blanton [29]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto [70]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Joe Murgia [15]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Craig Beasley [7]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Terry Blanton [58]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Ed Stewart [58]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Jean-Luc Rivera [46]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Ed Stewart [47]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [32]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Virgil Priscu [19]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Virgil Priscu [6]
   Re: - Gilles Milot [67]
   QU-QAU Sighting Report May 24, 2000 - Gilles Milot [67]
   QU-QAU Sighting Report May 24, 2000 - Gilles Milot [67]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Stan Friedman [79]
   Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice - Royce J. Myers III [27]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Dennis Stacy [67]

  May 27:

   Aliens Ate My MBA - John W. Auchettl [147]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Ed Stewart [110]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Roger Evans [144]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [76]
   Re: COMETA Report - Stan Friedman [46]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Stan Friedman [151]
   Arthur C. Clarke Knighted - Steven L. Wilson, Sr [33]
   'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sunday, May 27, 2000 - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [83]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Ed Stewart [18]

  May 28:

   Filer's Files #21 -- 2000 - George A. Filer [398]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [19]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Bruce Maccabee [112]
   Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 5-27-00 - Rense E-News [310]
   Corso & COMETA - William Sawers [7]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Steven W. Kaeser [40]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Virgil Priscu [35]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Gildas Bourdais [23]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Steven W. Kaeser [52]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Jim Mortellaro [89]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Dennis Stacy [24]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [85]
   Re: Filer's Files #21 -- 2000 - Jerome Clark [33]
   People's Rally At Area 51 - Norio Hayakawa [85]
   UNESCO Awarded Medal To General [COMETA] Norlain - Sue Kovios [40]

  May 29:

   Re: Corso & COMETA - Bruce Maccabee [21]
   UFO fanatics to flock to St. Paul - Blair Cummins [35]
   Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice - Robert Gates [37]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Robert Gates [72]
   Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice - Larry Hatch [54]
   Re: UFO fanatics to flock to St. Paul - Jim Mortellaro [15]
   Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice - Royce Myers [31]
   The Hetch Hetchy - Larry Hatch [31]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Sue Kovios [61]
   UNESCO Declaration On Science... - Sue Kovios [57]
   Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice - Steven W. Kaeser [44]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Dennis Stacy [46]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Stan Friedman [41]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Donald Ledger [55]
   [Repost] Summary of French COMETA Report - UFO UpDates - Toronto [303]
   Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice - Pat McCartney [37]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Jim Mortellaro [51]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - David Rudiak [112]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - James Bond Johnson [7]

  May 30:

   Re: What's New At Project 1947 - Jan Aldrich [114]

  May 31:

   Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice - Robert Gates [49]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Steven W. Kaeser [112]
   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe - Dennis Stacy [30]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Dennis Stacy [33]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Dennis Stacy [15]
   MUFON LA Reports Boomerang Craft - Steven L. Wilson Sr [380]
   Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice - Royce J. Myers III [86]
   Re: The COMETA Report - Steven W. Kaeser [20]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Jerome Clark [21]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Jan Aldrich [79]
   The Horten Wings And Reality - GT McCoy [68]
   Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice - Pat McCartney [44]
   Re: Corso & COMETA - Jim Mortellaro [73]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 18:39:31 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:41:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:51:32 +0100
 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 01:31:29 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>When someone in his or her car has an experience, the engine
 >>invariably shuts down, lights go out, radios (transmit and/or
 >>receivers) shut down. Invariably they come back on after the
 >>event is over. I've read that the " ... engine suddenly starts
 >>back up ..."

 ><snip>

 >Hi,

 >Yes. In fact I have certainly always asked witnesses if the car
 >restarted on its own as it is crucial to understanding the
 >physical energies involved. Clearly, IMO, these cases point
 >towards a physically real phenomenon not imagination or fantasy
 >at work. Thats why I have been so interested in them during
 >recent years.

 >In only a couple of the car stop cases I have studied have the
 >witnesses insisted that they tried the starter and it failed
 >several times, but after the UFO departed the engine and lights
 >returned to life without any action being taken by the driver.
 >Most often it starts on the first attempt to turn the engine
 >over after the departure of the UFO. In other words - normally -
 >but after a spell of inhibition.

Which had been our experience, that is, my family and myself
way back in the mid 1950's. The old (then new) 1953 Blue
Plymouth Cranbrook just stopped and came to rest by the side
of the NY State Thruway at about Saugerties, NY, about 60
or so miles from the Bronx. It was about 4AM and we were on
our way to Lake George in the Adirondack Mountains about an
hour north of Albany. We always left around 3 AM in order to
arrive at our beloved cabin on the lake by about 9AM.

My Mom was frantic, dad had no idea what the dilly was and
little Jamey saw this light in the sky. In the Eastern sky as it
was to my right and we were of course, heading due north.

Suddenly it was light out, the early morning sun was shining
brightly and it had to be well after 6AM. We were then just
outside of Saugerties with no memory of what had transpired.
By that hour, we should have been halfway to Bolton Landing.

There were other incidents when something similar occurred,
but we did recall how the car started back up. Dad recalls
twisting the key and old Betsy started right up. He thinks.
Problem is the memory is not hard in this recall. Mom
remembers that the car just started running all by itself,
and she was relieved. Mom scares easily. I cannot recall
the act of starting it up. But I do recall snapshot memories
of other things happening in between.

 >There have been experiments in some UK cases to try to duplicate
 >the 'magnetic signature' effects discussed in the Condon report.

<snip>

Sorry, but Condon is not high on my list of things I should be
taking seriously.

 >In the majority of UK car stops there is strong evidence of
 >ionizing radiation. It has been theorised by physicists here
 >that the ionic flow inside the car electrics might be
 >temporarily impeded. The key could be any cases where both
 >diesel powered snd petrol driven vehicles are in proximity. The
 >diesel powered vehicles tend to lose lights and electrical power
 >(often with circuits blown afterwards) but the engine runs
 >normally and does not fail as it does in the adjacent petrol
 >driven vehicle. If the diesel powered car is switched off by the
 >driver when the electrics fail it has been reported to need a
 >jump start (if the battery is drained as it can be).

This is good thinking and good information, as it relates to a
comparison of diesel Vs the machinations of the gas-powered
reciprocating engine. However much one theorizes, there is not
as yet a clear answer. Not even in my experiences, which is what
prompted the question to begin with. None of us can recall what
happened the same way. And it is only now, that I have been
pumping my mother and father for information to help me with my
book, that they are fessing up to their own recollections of
events. Why they waited 50 years to finally admit to
experiencing high strangeness to their only son, made not
begotten, is beyond me.

Time is fast approaching the point of no return, as their
memories are fading away. A little like old soldiers, eh? Dad
will be 88 this coming August. Mom is not far behind. Anyway,
whilst dad is still driving the car I bought him in 1997. It was
the year he crashed and totaled his last Betsy. A 1985 Pontiac.

 >The disappearance of ambient sounds during close encounters is
 >part of a pattern I have long refered to as the 'Oz Factor' and
 >it has two possible causes. To some extent it results from
 >inward focusing of consciousness - a sort of grand scale effect
 >like blocking out the ticking clock and only attending to
 >relevant information in our background awareness.

Perhaps to some extent. Perhaps not. As a perceived abductee, I
genuinely do not know what causes the phenom. And it happened to
me. I suspect however, that it may have something to do with
time/dimension.

 >More interesting to my current research is the possible link
 >with gravity and space/time distortions in close proximity to
 >glowing energy clouds. There is a vast array of data I have put
 >together on this and it seems to fall together very well.

 >I am publishing a book on this in a short while (its called
 >'Time Storms')

 >In this I argue, rather as someone on this list speculated, that
 >there is a energy phenomenon in the atmosphere that creates
 >localised disruptions in the space/time continuum and it
 >produces a series of highly predictable results (physical,
 >physiological, psychological and environmental) that are
 >extraordinarily well supported by the evidence I have been
 >piecing together.

I look forward to your thoughts and research in this matter.
However as you must realize by now, I am only interested
in the ultimate truth, which unfortunately, is presently beyond
my ken or (I propose) anyone else's.

 >I have accumulated a data base of over 150 cases - many first
 >hand studies included - that seem to fit the pattern identified.
 >From the cummulative analysis of these sdet out in the book I
 >make a series of arguments - some of which I think we can put
 >forward as endorsed by the evidence and others of which are
 >reasoned speculation (all be it rather extraordinary at times).

 >A lot of curious side effects of these cases (for instance what
 >I call 'reality blinks' - where there are small changes to the
 >witnesses relatity in the immediate aftermath of the event)
 >started to make sense to me when looked at this way.

 >I should stress that the book is not about UFOs, as such. Indeed
 >its more directed as a book about the nature of time and
 >physics. But it does have undoubted relevance to UFOs, as I saw
 >early on during this research.

 >The arguments I set out from the data are too complex to
 >summarise properly here because you need to see the many cases
 >that they rely upon to see why I have reached them. But as and
 >when you read the book and see it unfold through the case
 >histories and a logical progression of the evidence, the
 >statistics and the physics of space time I hope you will see why
 >it has got me rather excited.

 >I'm not suggesting it is the answer ti everything - or indeed
 >the answer to anything. But its not often you see apparently
 >disparate ideas, pieces of evidence and cases from many
 >different disciplines (of which ufology is merely one) slot so
 >well into a seemingly logical whole.

 >I will leave it to you all to determine what - if any -
 >relevance my concept of time storms has for UFOs and / or alien
 >intervention. Its not a topic I move into in my book as that is
 >devoted simply to proving that there is a consistent phenomenon
 >here. Where we take it once that is accepted is open for
 >discussion.

"Finally, the truth revealed!" about such and such not being in
the title, I look forward to reading it. UFO or not, I would
appreciate your letting us know when it is released. Soon I
hope, as I would like to read it prior to going to print with my
own small contribution to confusion.

Also, this is one of the few times during my life when I
actually agreed with not only a researcher, but a researcher of
the female type persuasion. I shall retire to bedlam.

Best regards,

Jim








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                              Roswell Yet Again

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:20:14 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:48:14 -0400
Subject: Roswell Yet Again



I've been reading Kal Korff's Roswell book, which has some good
quality reproductions of two photos with Marcel displaying a
piece of the debris and three other photos showing Gen. Ramey
and Col. Dubose, without Marcel, displaying the debris. Marcel,
as most on this list probably know, claimed that the photos he
was in showed the "real" wreckage and that the later photos
showed balloon wreckage that had been switched. Dubose later
said that no such switch occurred.

On examining the photographs, it is clear to me that the
material spread out on the floor is the same in both photos. You
can tell by looking at the ragged edges of the material, which
are exactly the same in both photos, and which would be unique
to each piece of material. It seems reasonable to conclude that
Marcel was either lying about the "bait and switch" or suffering
from a very faulty memory.

But the photos show something else that makes me wonder whether
there is another explanation. The material that Marcel is
holding does not look the same as the other material spread out
on the floor. There appear to be no sticks attached to it as
there are to the pieces on the floor. Further, it appears to be
much stiffer material. He's holding it up at an angle with one
edge touching the floor, but it doesn't droop like the piece
propped up off the floor in the other photos, even though that
piece is attached to a stick. The section Marcel is holding is
at least as large, and in one picture, he seems to be holding it
with only his left hand while the four fingers of his right hand
are in front of the object and his thumb is curled up against
his palm. What I think may be more significant is that, even
though the debris on the floor is the same in all five photos, I
see nothing in the photos without Marcel that matches the piece
of material he was holding, even though one of the Ramey/Dubose
photos shows a wider view of the room.

What I'm wondering is whether Ramey could have permitted Marcel
to show off a piece of what Marcel said was some of the "less
interesting" debris just to keep him pacified, but only after
the balloon wreckage had already been laid out on the floor by
somebody else. The piece Marcel was holding could have then been
removed, or Marcel might even have carried it off himself.
Marcel is smiling in the pictures, which seems strange for
someone who has just found out that what he thought was a
"flying disk" is only a balloon.

In the photos, Marcel was not looking at the stuff on the floor,
and may not have noticed that it was not the same as what he was
showing off. In the Berlitz/Moore book, Marcel says that "we"
laid out the material, so someone besides Marcel was apparently
involved in setting things up for the press. Perhaps it was more
of a "mix and match" than a "bait and switch."

I know people have been going at it hammer and tongs about
Roswell on this list for years, so apologies in advance if I'm
only repeating something that was already addressed and/or
debunked.







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                        Re: Vehicle Shutdown - Humour

From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:18:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:55:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown - Humour


In order to solve this mystery, I enlisted the help of my
trusted mechanic, Allen Gray. He agreed to let me in on the
secret for the modest price of 3 gallons of strawberry ice
cream. Says he's planning a trip home this summer?...


Here's how it's done;

Gadget #1 - a sort of X-ray, MRI thingy that can see through the
hood of the car and view the electrons as they flow through the
spark plug wires and other electrical components. Oh yeah, it
can see thermal emissions as well. Use this baby to map the
ignition wires. Get gadget #2.

Gadget #2 - stereo multipolar tunneling particle beam. Every
well-equipped saucer has one. This is an indispensible tool for
applying a positive charge with one beam and negative with the
other, simultaneously. Great potential differences can be built
up remotely between two adjacent objects or focused for more
detailed work. Great fun at parties.

A positive charge is applied the engine block and car body,
somewhere in the area of several thousand volts, enough to keep
the plugs from sparking but not enough to arc to ground through
the tires. This stops the engine slowly and safely unless of
course you drive a deisel. 'smelly but virtually saucerproof!
OK the car stopped. That was the easy part...

To get going again, we have to apply a low voltage (about 12)
high current beam to the positive terminal on the starter. In
the UK, I believe it would be opposite. This may leave tell-tale
signs of scorching or small pinholes in the hood or fender of
the car. If the key is in the running position, the engine
should go.

This part of the operation takes a steady hand and a good
knowledge of auto mechanics. Greys are excellent mechanics
though, 90 deg. turns at mach 5 and nothing falls off, 'nuff
said. I wouldn't trust my Mazda to an earthling!

Happy Motoring!

Rick Goldsmith








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                       Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:30:35 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:28:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:45:46 -0700
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Can you guys please stop alla this stuff, and answer a
 >simple question?

 >Lets say a regular person from Planet Earth goes to Mars.

 >He looks up in the sky.

 >What goddamn color does he see?

 >Is that such a complicated matter?

Apparently so. I would say red during dust storms, gray or pale
blue otherwise. Gray seems to be JPL's latest choice of colors.
But if you would prefer something in a nice floral pattern, that
probably could be arranged, too.








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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 02:17:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:22:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


Regarding:

 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:51:32 +0100
 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico

Jenny wrote:

 >In fact I have certainly always asked witnesses if the car
 >restarted on its own as it is crucial to understanding the
 >physical energies involved. Clearly, IMO, these cases point
 >towards a physically real phenomenon not imagination or fantasy
 >at work. Thats why I have been so interested in them during
 >recent years.

Jenny,

Some related questions which come to mind.

What about 'car stop' cases where:

1. There wasn't a 'UFO' involved, i.e., the car 'seized up' and
then started again for no apparent reason?

If there are abundant examples - what are the normal
explanations?

It might be insightful to take this question to some car
mechanics.

2. There was a 'close proximity' UFO sighting and the car wasn't
affected.

This seems to be the norm - why the difference?

3. There was a UFO related 'car stop' incident and the UFO was
later found to have a mundane explanation.

This could be crucial evidence - do we know of any examples?

How are they rationalised in context?


An interesting report, which maybe isn't generally known, can be
found within the National UFO Reporting Center [NUFORC]
database:

Occurred : 5/29/1998 23:30 (Entered as : 5/29/98 23:30)
Reported : 5/30/1998 06:58
Posted : 6/18/1998
Location : Elmira, At drive in movie, NY
Shape : Triangle

It was a triangle of lights. There was a big light at the top
and three little ones under it. I was at a drive in movie when
it flew overhead, silently. It was heading south. from what I
could make out that was the only one.

   /\
  / 0\

   / \
  /ooo\

--------- is kinda what it looked like.

I was just sitting in my car watching a drive-in movie when it
flew silently overhead. I wasn't the only witness I know that.
My friend was there with me she saw it too. I don't know who
else saw it though. It was heading to the south. It caused some
engines on cars to start up and stop. [End]


We could perhaps presume that car engines suddenly and
mysteriously starting might not exactly be welcome by some
occupants at a drive-in movie.

[Did the earth move for you... Not exactly, but I'd swear the
car's engine started...]

Was this NUFORC report ever investigated further and if it
wasn't, dare we ask, why not?

One which was, and if better known would possibly be a prominent
example, featured in a BBC Scotland 'UFO' documentary some 3-4
years ago. I've lamented (minus bagpipes) that my video copy of
the program was loaned to UFO Magazine and subsequently mislaid
in their archives.

Again involving a reported close encounter with a 'triangular
UFO' [if I recall, a 'classic' account of bright lights which
descended and were then seen to be attached to a triangular-
shaped 'craft' which hovered silently above the road ahead],
this case had a significant aspect - the local police were
willing to provide corroborative testimony.

After his car had allegedly 'stalled', our witness telephoned
the police from a nearby phonebox and the documentary included
an interview with a police officer [I recall he was a high
ranking official] who [if I remember correctly] acknowledged
responding to the complaint, that the car had been examined by
them at the scene and there was no discernible mechanical fault.
I believe they, importantly, confirmed that said witness had
called to report the entire UFO encounter.

There was a bit more to this case, which [from memory] occurred
in central Scotland - possibly within the infamous 'Bonnybridge
triangle' - and had been investigated by Malcolm Robinson.

I note that BUFORA's new web site proclaims a 'vehicle
interference' project, which doubtless you're aware of.


James.








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                       Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:04:26 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:23:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?


 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:45:46 -0700
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 16:48:45 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

 >Can you guys please stop alla this stuff, and answer a
 >simple question?

 >Lets say a regular person from Planet Earth goes to Mars.

 >He looks up in the sky.

 >What goddamn color does he see?

<snip>

Larry, Lan:

 >1) During a sand/wind storm  - and -

Yellow, pink, orange, red, like our sunsets. It has to do with
the size of the airborne particulates.

 >2) Not.

Blue. It also has to do with the physics of light scatter.

Whew! That was tough.

Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                        McClendon Study Group - May 3

From: ParadigmRG@aol.com
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:15:23 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:25:34 -0400
Subject: McClendon Study Group - May 3


PRG
Paradigm Research Group

Press Release
       April, 30, 2000

Washington, DC - Presidential candidate, Dr. Heather Anne
Harder, will address the Sarah McClendon study group at the
National Press Club on Wednesday evening, May 3 at 7:30 pm.
Dinner with the speaker is at 6:30 pm

Educator, author, speaker, and business woman, Ms. Harder is
conducting her second campaign which relies heavily on the
Internet and radio/tv appearances. She garnished 30,000 votes in
the 1996 Texas primary.

Her positions on the key issues are presented on her website at
www.Harder2000.com. She is running as a Democrat, but her views
do not fall easily into traditional categories. She is direct,
to the point and unafraid to address any topic, no matter how
controversial.

She received considerable national attention when she elected to
speak publicly regarding the UFO controversy, unambiguously
stating her conviction that the phenomena is in fact visitation
by extraterrestrial beings. She is one of a growing number of
highly educated, articulate and grounded professionals willing
to approach this taboo subject.

The McClendon study group has met every other
Wednesday at the National Press Club for more than
20 years.

For additional information regarding Ms. Harder's
appearance call: 301-564-1820







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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:20:42 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:27:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 13:57:20 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>Davenport theorizes that UFOs are surrounded by gravity/time
 >>distortion fields and that vehicle shutdown is caused not by
 >>some exotic energy, but rather the slow-down of electrons in the
 >>car's ignition system as it becomes part of the UFO's
 >>gravitational field. When the UFO leaves, time becomes 'normal'
 >>again and the car starts up with no damage.

 >>My apologies if this idea has already been brought up.

 >Hi Mac, EBK and Listers;

<snip>

 >Among these, a lack of sound or at least, a change in the>way
 >sound is perceived, electronic effects such as engines and
 >lights shutting down and a general change in the way time is
felt. This "high strangeness," as I refer to it, and lots more,
 >is felt by the percipient.

If the phenomenon is electromagnetic, this sense of high
strangeness could be as "simple" as an induced seizure.
Epileptiform temporal lobe states can, I imagine, by brought on
electromagnetism at the right dosage and frequency. I'm _not_
pulling a Phil Klass and saying you're hallucinating. Quite the
opposite. I think that perhaps the human brain undergoes an
acute organic reaction to UFO "fields"--whatever they consist
of--and that the strangess effect might just be an unavoidable
by-product.

In other words, choking on car exhaust doesn't imply malevolent
intent (or intent of any kind) on the part of the driver. Maybe
your situation is the ufological equivalent.


=====
Mac Tonnies
239 E. Sea
Independence, MO 65050
816-833-5910
macbot@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html








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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Donald Ledgerdledger@ns.sympatico.ca
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:50:42 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:30:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 06:07:43 -0700
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:49:12 -0300
 >>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 01:31:29 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>When someone in his or her car has an experience, the engine
 >>>invariably shuts down, lights go out, radios (transmit and/or
 >>>receivers) shut down.  Invariably they come back on after the
 >>>event is over.  I've read that the " ... engine suddenly starts
 >>>back up ..."

 >>>How does this happen?  Has anyone asked if the engine started
 >>>without the engagement of the ignition switch?  It just started
 >>>running again by itself?  Has anyone heard of the engine starter
 >>>being used with or without the aid of the victim?  Has anyone
 >>>specifically asked this question?

 >>In the two that I have personally investigated, the starter has
 >>nothing to do with it. It seems that compression is locked in
 >>some of the cylinders when the engine suddenly stops. The
 >>ignition is left on. A short time after - when whatever the
 >>powerful force is releases its grip on the engine - the pistons
 >>are driven back down and since the ignition is still on the
 >>engine fires up..... similar to catching the engine in gear.

 >Yes! That was one of McCampbell's suggestions as well.

 >Personally, I find it hard to understand in most cases.

 >There is always some leakage or blow-by. After a ten minute
 >sighting say, I would expect the compression to have leaked
 >away.

 >Assuming the ignition was left on however, a magnetic field
 >strong enough to close the ingnition relay (usually right on the
 >starter itself) might also do the trick. Again, this is hard to
 >envision. The field strength would have to me enormous, so other
 >effects should then be noted. Would the hood of the car crumple
 >up like a tin can?


Hi Larry,

Sorry, I was away for 2 days. The blowby bugs me too. And like
you say anything strong enough to lock up the block has to act
on the rest of the car-at leat the metal parts. You would think
that audio tapes would be erased or badly damaged. What about
Paul Hill's forcefield motivation? What could a force field do.
What the hell is a force field anyway-other than say that of a
magnetic force field?

Don








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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Rob Lockhart <Rob_Lockhart@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 01:14:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:35:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:34:42 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


<snip>

 >Davenport theorizes that UFOs are surrounded by gravity/time
 >distortion fields and that vehicle shutdown is caused not by
 >some exotic energy, but rather the slow-down of electrons in the
 >car's ignition system as it becomes part of the UFO's
 >gravitational field. When the UFO leaves, time becomes 'normal'
 >again and the car starts up with no damage.

Wouldn't the slowing of electrons also cause slowing of neurons
(or neuron pathways, albeit electro-chemical, if you're slowing
down time, everything in the vicinity must be slowed down)?
Thus, you may not even know what was happening around you except
that you may feel disoriented (assuming some part of you doesn't
slow down).

Jim Mortellaro wrote something to this effect, saying, "a lack
of sound or at least, a change in the way sound is perceived,
electronic effects such as engines and lights shutting down and
a general change in the way time is felt. This 'high
strangeness,' as I refer to it, and lots more, is felt by the
percipient." I'm no medical person, but I'd think that if a
person were to NOT have any time-altering events happening
during these events, the aliens must be purposefully causing
electronic equipment to malfunction. Makes you wonder that maybe
there wouldn't be an "interruption" in travel if vechicles were
entirely mechanical (i.e., older diesel engines used by the
military on watercraft). The next question would be, "are there
time-altering effects on non-electrical components?"

Interesting reading and collaboration!

-Rob










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                      TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.1.00

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:56:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:37:31 -0400
Subject: TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.1.00


TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

May 1, 2000

_____________________________



WEEKLY BRIEFING
5.1.00


A lot of news this week. TMP encourages everyone to sign the
online petition for NASA to take new high-resolution photos of
Cydonia on Mars when the Mars Global Surveyor passes over the
region again on May 7. We must hold NASA (in particular Malin
and Goldin) to its public promise to re-image the controversial
structures there, including the famous Face "until everyone is
satisfied", which they have NOT done yet.

Early 2000 crop circle reports are coming in from several
countries now, including England, Spain, Holland and the USA. As
this was being written, word came from Nancy Talbott of The BLT
Research Team

http://www.bltresearch.net

that the new formation in Milan, Tennessee (April 23 / 24) is a
very long ten circle pictogram with other lines and pathways in
winter wheat and is possibly from 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile long,
with various associated anomalies (more details next update).
Another large ten circle "celtic cross" formation has also bee
reported in Holland. Meanwhile, early formations in England this
year have a definite triangular flavour to them... stay tuned!

These and many other reports below...


PETITION NOW ONLINE FOR NASA TO RE-IMAGE CYDONIA AND 'FACE' ON MARS
ON MAY 7
http://www.petitionpetition.com/cgi-bin/cgi12.cgi?petition_id=363

CNN: EXPLORING CYDONIA
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/04/12/cydonia.teaser/index.html

NEW DETAILED SATELLITE IMAGES OF AREA 51 SHOW MAJOR EXPANSION
http://www.space.com/news/area51_exclusive_00421.html

HACKER DISRUPTS SERVICE TO AREA 51 WEB SITE
http://CNN.com/2000/TECH/space/04/21/area51.hacker.ap/index.html

NEW EARLY 2000 CROP CIRCLE FORMATIONS APPEARING IN ENGLAND
http://cropcircleconnector.com/2000/2000.html
http://194.200.2.248/~paul/search.cgi?d=x&y00&m=any&c=UK

NEW CROP FORMATIONS ALSO REPORTED IN SPAIN, HOLLAND, USA
http://cropcircleconnector.com/inter2000/inter2000.html
http://194.200.2.248/~paul/search.cgi?d=x&y00&c=any

P3N HOT NEWS: PENTAGON DENIES ET IN ITS PROGRAMS
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/pentagondenies.html

FRENCH DEFENSE MINISTRY RELEASES RADAR UFO INFO
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/frenchufo.html

RETURN OF THE GIANTS: NEW BOOK ON ISRAELI UFO WAVE BY BARRY CHAMISH
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/giants.html

CURIOUS TIMES: LOOK! UP IN THE SKY! IT'S A PATHOGENIC POISON!
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/upinthesky.html

CHEMTRAIL BREAKTHROUGH?
http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/chembreak.html

DOGS BLAMED FOR LATEST 'GOAT SUCKER' KILLINGS IN CHILE
http://home-news.excite.com/printstory/news/r/000421/08/odd-chile

FREE ENERGY SECRETS PLACED IN PUBLIC DOMAIN
http://www.cseti.org/position/addition/bedini.htm

NEW ONE HECTARE-SIZED RADIO TELESCOPE ARRAY LATEST EFFORT TO LOOK
FOR INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_719000/719951.stm

GALILEO PROBE TAKES CLOSE-UP PHOTOS OF LAVA FLOW ON IO
http://CNN.com/2000/TECH/space/04/20/galileo.update/index.html

NEW VIEWS OF JUPITER'S TINY MOONS NOW ONLINE
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/pictures/jovianmoons

NASA UNVEILS QUARTET OF ASTEROID MOVIES
http://CNN.com/2000/TECH/space/04/28/near.movies2/index.html

EUROPE'S MARS EXPRESS FORGING LINKS WITH JAPAN
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0004/19marsexpress/

EARTH CHARTER SETS COURSE FOR SUSTAINABLE LIVING
http://CNN.com/2000/NATURE/04/21/earth.charter.enn/index.html

IMAGES SHOW WARM SIDE OF DINOSAUR HEARTS
http://CNN.com/2000/NATURE/04/20/science.dinosaur.reut/index.html


_____________________________


See also the TMP web site for complete listings of news stories,
reports and related information and links:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing weekly briefings of the latest relevant news
stories and reports, as well as information and updates on
TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul Anderson
and published by TMP, and is available free by subscription; to
be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including "subscribe TMP News" or "unsubscribe TMP News" and
e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000








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                            Re: What's Up There?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 03:12:42 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:39:49 -0400
Subject: Re: What's Up There?


Errol, Listers and Everyone else,

While this may be a curiosity or merely something about which I
am completely unfamiliar, I suggest looking at this picture
taken by SOHO, of a solar ejection mass which took place on the
30th of April. This time sequenced video shows a number of
interesting images along with the solar ejection. Several
meteors are visible steaking across the sky and what looks very
much like a planet, although I know not which one, is also
visible in the left center of the film. It is moving slowly
towards the sun. All these objects are moving in straight lines,
as they are supposed to be doing.

However the most interesting object appears in the upper right
quadrant and loops in towards the sun in an arc, then loops out
into the lower right quadrant.

Anyone have any ideas as to what it may be? Just curious I am.
However I am not aware of any objects, even man made, that move
quickly in an arc as this thing does.

Hoping for a simple explanation on the one hand, and no
explanation on the other. The latter being more interesting
than the former, as everyone loves a mystery.

Jim Mortellaro

http://www.spaceweather.com/images/30apr00/cme_c3_big.gif








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                      Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment?

From: Marc Bell <marc@wufog.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:03:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:40:45 -0400
Subject: Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment?


Is there any information available on the following.

I remembering hearing in 1971 about experiments carried out on
Apollo 14, which were conducted into a study of whether cosmic
rays that penetrate the optic nerves being responsible for the
'alledged' optical flashes astronauts had been experiencing.
Especially as what is talked about today is often refered to as
'optical flashes'.

Was this a cover story for UFO sightings for astronauts, or one
in the waiting just in case?

The astronauts involved were Stuart Roosa, Alan Shepard & Edgar
Mitchell.

Marc Bell

(WUFORG)







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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 07:57:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:45:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 07:12:07 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

Previously, Mac wrote:

 >Mark Davenport adds an interesting slant to this phenomenon in
 >his book, 'Visitors from Time'. He purports that the energy
 >needed to jam a car's ignition would be sufficient to render it
 >useless. The problem as he sees it are all of the reports of car
 >ignitions coming right back on after the UFO has left the scene.

 >Davenport theorizes that UFOs are surrounded by gravity/time
 >distortion fields and that vehicle shutdown is caused not by
 >some exotic energy, but rather the slow-down of electrons in the
 >car's ignition system as it becomes part of the UFO's
 >gravitational field. When the UFO leaves, time becomes 'normal'
 >again and the car starts up with no damage.


Hello, Mac and all...


I'm no physics engineer, but one of the problems with "time
arrest" as an answer to why the engine is perceived to have
stopped is this: If time has slowed down for electrons and
everything else but the subject, then how can the subject still
see? It strikes me that electrons and light waves travel pretty
much at the same speed. If the waves are slowed down by time;
that is to say the photon travel time, as well as the electron
travel time, has been "stretched" or actually stopped in
relationship to the viewer, the luminosity of the objects being
seen would go super dark or even black, wouldn't it?

Ideas, anyone?


Roger Evans








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                       Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:39:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:46:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?


 >Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:42:05 -0600
 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<big snip>

 >I really don't know what color Mars' sky really is, but JPL
 >seems to have settled again on the neutral gray preferred by
 >Mutch. That's what JPL's Golumbek said the Pathfinder images
 >showed in a recent coffee table book about Mars put out by
 >National Geographic - after JPL released numerous pink sky
 >images.

I read at the JPL site some time ago that the sky of Mars is
reddish pink in summer, when more dust is suspended in the air,
and blue in winter, when most of the dust has settled out of the
atmosphere.

Brian








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                       Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:41:41 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:49:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:45:46 -0700
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

Larry asked:

 >Can you guys please stop alla this stuff, and answer a
 >simple question?

 >Lets say a regular person from Planet Earth goes to
 >Mars. He looks up in the sky. What goddamn color does
 >he see?

 >Is that such a complicated matter? Why are we arguing?
 >What goddamn colour of sky does this poor fool see
 >before he runs out of air or water?

 >I will allow two answers:

 >1)  During a sand/wind storm   - and -
 >2)  Not.

 >All else seems like crap.
 >Very best wishes
 >- Larry Hatch


Hi Larry, EBK & List

Forget about the air Larry, what about the JW-Black label rocket
fuel. Then we would all see pink elephants. However, from the
general rules in the books and with Mr. HUBBLE hot on our tail,
you should/may see this?


------------------------------------------
                       LOOK DIRECTION
                 --------------------------
    SKY TYPE   =    ^Up^        <across>
------------------------------------------
[1] Dust/Wind =   Salmon      Dark Salmon
[2] Clear     =  Light Blue   Salmon+Blue
[3] Cloud     =  White+Blue       ?
[3] Sunset    =  Dark Blue     Red+Pink
------------------------------------------

[a]. The local illumination conditions at the time depend on
      season, sun elevation.

[b]. The blue-sky phenomenon was later explained theoretically
      by Lord Rayleigh.


Larry asked:

 >Is that such a complicated matter? Why are we arguing?
 >What goddamn colour of sky does this poor fool see
 >before he runs out of air or water?


Well, as the story goes (?), the problem with the surface camera
images is a technical one, a possible "rubbish in rubbish out"
or "where did that come from, the engine, what is it, how do I
know, then just put it in the boot" - Fortean.

Some one at HUBBLE said, "the colours are wrong" - VIKING say
"thats what it looks like and thats the best we could do".

They (HUBBLE persons) found that even when you look at Mars the
sky is "BLUE" and a "Dust Storm", on Mars look like any other
dust storm on Earth. (Looks are the KEY WORD - data limits
however).

Hubble's Near Infrared Camera and Multi-Object Spectrometer
creates more supporting evidence the HUBBLE people say.

The question in "who set the camera data". If you look at all
the Viking colour images the colour palate is chaotic. Just
about every image is unstable - in the end lots of B/W & Grey
images are given out to the public.

                          ***

So a MR HUBBLE said, take a look at the links from the HUBBLE
crew.

http://www.physics.utoledo.edu/~pbj/stormpage.html


[] MARS CLOUD ---- B/W extraction ----

http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/jpeg/marsbwc.jpg

http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/hrtemp/97-15a.jpg

[] MARS ---- Blue Atmosphere ----

http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/hrtemp/97-23.jpg

                          ***

EARTH IMAGE - Note: STS cameras are nothing like the above
samples.

[] EARTH ---- Looking Down ----

http://earth.jsc.nasa.gov/Images/STS066/lores/STS066-152-172.JPG

http://earth.jsc.nasa.gov/Images/STS048/lores/STS048-083-077.JPG

[] EARTH ---- Looking Side ----

http://earth.jsc.nasa.gov/Images/STS052/lores/STS052-082-007.JPG

http://earth.jsc.nasa.gov/Images/STS059/lores/STS059-238-088.JPG

                          ***

THE JPL TEST:

When you correct the images data on Viking 2 using the CO2
ground frost images and the white instrument cover - the sky
becomes BLUE. (?)

http://cass.jsc.nasa.gov/images/sred2/sred2_S30.gif

REF: Frost at the Viking 2 Lander (48�N, 226�W)
      Viking Lander image = 21I093


Then there is the story about the "Colour Test Pads" and the
Magnifying Mirror...

OK then - Next time if your interested!


Thank Errol.


Best regards to you Larry,


John W. Auchettl - Director PRA Research


Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE







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             'Chuck Shaw?' Flight Director - On STS-75 UFO Video

From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:05:06 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:53:33 -0400
Subject: 'Chuck Shaw?' Flight Director - On STS-75 UFO Video


Hi EBK and Researchers,

Is this a first? Is it real?
Extracted fron Forum: "alt.alien.visitors".
The post follows.

             *****

Forum: alt.alien.visitors
Thread: FOX UFO Show on STS-75 "UFO Video"
Message 9 of 76 Save this thread

Subject: Re: FOX UFO Show on STS-75 "UFO Video"
Date: 04/30/2000
Author: JamesOberg <jamesoberg@aol.com>

RE: STS-75 Question
Date: 03/03/2000 9:26:59 AM Central Standard Time
From: charles.w.shaw1@jsc.nasa.gov (SHAW, CHARLES W. (CHUCK) (JSC-DA8))
To: JamesOberg@aol.com ('JamesOberg@aol.com')
CC: ed.campion1@jsc.nasa.gov (CAMPION, ED (JSC-AP))

Hi Jim,

I was the Lead Flight Director for STS-75, and was on console
for the tethered satellite deploy operations and at the time the
tether broke. Operations had been nominal up to the point Jeff
Hoffman called down that the tether broke, and then we saw the
status in telemetry a couple of seconds later.  The behavior of
the satellite and the tether remnant on the satellite was
exactly as we had expected for a tether break case.

In the footage of the video, etc. which was examined in GREAT
detail post flight in hopes of finding SOMETHING to aid in what
had caused the tether break, we never saw anything that was
"unexpected". Your comments as to artifacts and small
debris/dust /ice particles/lens reflections/blooming/etc., are
all quite common and we have seen those things in virtually
every shuttle mission's video.  What was present in the video
and the data that was examined post flight was all within this
type of artifact and/or expected results.

Post break, we called upon tracking and imaging resources world
wide to be able to establish a trajectory for the satellite and
tether remnant, in order to determine the feasibility of a
rendezvous and recovery, in addition to being able to command
the satellite transmitter on to gain some science data from it,
even though the tether was broken. At no time did any of these
tracking data show anything unexpected, and we were LOOKING for
unexpected things (like extra pieces of tether, or debris from
the satellite and/or science booms) that could cause us to not
want to fly up in the vicinity of the satellite

As it turned out, the arcing of the voltage in the tether to the
deployer structure burned the tether in two.  Rather ironic that
the experiment worked so well to show the ability of the system
to generate power, and in fact worked so well as to fatally
damage the experiment!

I have always been fascinated by UFO investigations, and
"personally" I hope we are not really alone in this wonderful
universe.

Hope this helps,

Chuck

Chuck Shaw
Flight Director
Mission Operations Directorate, NASA
Johnson Space Center, Houston Texas

              ****

Best regards,


John W. Auchettl - Director PRA Research


Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE








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                 Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing

From: John Pierson <johnpierson@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:16:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:56:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing


 >Source: Rowland Network Communications

 >http://bbs.rowlandnet.com/cgi-bin/WebX?14@@.ee6c827/69

 >Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing

 >Nashville (April 28, 2000) - Late night radio host Art Bell took
 >a significant step forward today in his two-year battle to
 >vindicate his reputation. After lengthy oral argument this
 >morning, Judge Marietta Shipley rejected attempts by local radio
 >stations WWCR and WNQM and radio host Ted Gunderson to dismiss
 >Mr. Bell's lawsuit against them.

 >Art Bell filed his defamation lawsuit in the Circuit Court for
 >Davidson County after Mr. Gunderson and David Hinkson accused
 >him of molesting children on a program aired worldwide on WWCR,
 >a Nashville-based short wave radio station. Citing the emotional
 >harm that resulted from the false charges, Mr. Bell announced on
 >March 31, 2000 his retirement from radio broadcasting.

 >Art Bell's lead counsel, Gerard P. Fox of Los Angeles, had the
 >following statement:

 >"When a person has been defamed, there is no putting the genie
 >entirely back in the bottle. However, the Court's ruling today
 >that Mr. Bell has provided sufficient evidence to allow the case
 >to be decided by a jury goes a long way toward restoring his
 >reputation. This day in Court has reaffirmed Mr. Bell's
 >confidence in our judicial system."

 >Additional information about Art Bell's lawsuit may be obtained
 >by calling Gerard P. Fox at (310) 229-9300 or Mr. Bell's
 >Tennessee lawyer, John Wood of Branham & Day, P.C., at (615)
 >742-4880.

Something just doesn't seem right here.

Bell quits his radio program one day before his defamation
hearing. He claims to have been harmed (almost) irrepairably.
It is said in a press release that he will leave all public
life, which includes publishing.

Correct me if Im wrong, but doesn't that seem like he is setting
it up not only to sue for dafamation but also for 'lost wages'?
In other words, he is demonstrating that he has been so affected
by this ordeal that he will no longer be able to generate an
income from what he loves the most and has done the longest?

Anybody else see that?

Nothing about this latest departure seems quite right.

John







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                            Re: Roswell Yet Again

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:41:31 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:58:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Yet Again


 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:20:14 -0600
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:48:14 -0400
 >Subject:  Roswell Yet Again

 >I've been reading Kal Korff's Roswell book, which has some good
 >quality reproductions of two photos with Marcel displaying a
 >piece of the debris

<snip>

 >Marcel is smiling in the pictures, which seems strange for
 >someone who has just found out that what he thought was a
 >"flying disk" is only a balloon.

Yeah, I think you are right, Lan.

But, look at that smile.

To me, it has always looked like an embarrassed smile. Like
somebody who has just been discovered to have swallowed a
canary.

Smilin'  Bob






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                                     Re:

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:39:58 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:03:58 -0400
Subject: Re:


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:18:53 -0400
 >From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown - Humour
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >In order to solve this mystery, I enlisted the help of my
 >trusted mechanic, Allen Gray. He agreed to let me in on the
 >secret for the modest price of 3 gallons of strawberry ice
 >cream. Says he's planning a trip home this summer?...

 >Here's how it's done;

 >Gadget #1 - a sort of X-ray, MRI thingy that can see through the
 >hood of the car and view the electrons as they flow through the
 >spark plug wires and other electrical components. Oh yeah, it
 >can see thermal emissions as well. Use this baby to map the
 >ignition wires. Get gadget #2.

 >Gadget #2 - stereo multipolar tunneling particle beam. Every
 >well-equipped saucer has one. This is an indispensible tool for
 >applying a positive charge with one beam and negative with the
 >other, simultaneously. Great potential differences can be built
 >up remotely between two adjacent objects or focused for more
 >detailed work. Great fun at parties.

 >A positive charge is applied the engine block and car body,
 >somewhere in the area of several thousand volts, enough to keep
 >the plugs from sparking but not enough to arc to ground through
 >the tires. This stops the engine slowly and safely unless of
 >course you drive a deisel. 'smelly but virtually saucerproof!
 >OK the car stopped. That was the easy part...

 >To get going again, we have to apply a low voltage (about 12)
 >high current beam to the positive terminal on the starter. In
 >the UK, I believe it would be opposite. This may leave tell-tale
 >signs of scorching or small pinholes in the hood or fender of
 >the car. If the key is in the running position, the engine
 >should go.

 >This part of the operation takes a steady hand and a good
 >knowledge of auto mechanics. Greys are excellent mechanics
 >though, 90 deg. turns at mach 5 and nothing falls off, 'nuff
 >said. I wouldn't trust my Mazda to an earthling!

Now here is one post, Mr. Errol, Sir, that I would happily apply
a title of "Finally, the Truth Revealed!" It's the only one what
makes sense.

However, if your Mazda is a dual turbo, generation two
turbocharged vehicle, I do hereby offer you your price on it.
Assuming it is in good condition, with minimal pin holes and the
starter not damaged from "one too many mornings" with "them!"

Send me your asking price and make it righteous. I will pay a
righteous price.

Jim






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   May > May 1

                       Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:47:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:05:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:30:35 -0600
 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:45:46 -0700
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Can you guys please stop alla this stuff, and answer a
 >>simple question?

 >>Lets say a regular person from Planet Earth goes to Mars.

 >>He looks up in the sky.

 >>What color does he see?

 >>Is that such a complicated matter?

 >Apparently so. I would say red during dust storms, gray or pale
 >blue otherwise. Gray seems to be JPL's latest choice of colors.
 >But if you would prefer something in a nice floral pattern, that
 >probably could be arranged, too.


I can understand the reddish hue during a dust storm while the
sun is up.

I could envision a darkish grey otherwise, due to the very thin
atmosphere, a very very small fraction of our atmosphere.

Other colors may come from ionization of whatever gases are
present,  CO2 or maybe a little water vapor.

Blue however implies ozone or free oxygen.

I would have thought this was all known ever since the first
Mars landers. Didn't any of those look up for a moment? Didn't
they look at the edges (limbs) of the planet coming in?

Best

- Larry Hatch







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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:32:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:09:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:51:32 +0100
 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>When someone in his or her car has an experience, the engine
 >>invariably shuts down, lights go out, radios (transmit and/or
 >>receivers) shut down. Invariably they come back on after the
 >>event is over. I've read that the " ... engine suddenly starts
 >>back up ..."

 ><snip>

 >Hi,

 >Yes. In fact I have certainly always asked witnesses if the car
 >restarted on its own as it is crucial to understanding the
 >physical energies involved. Clearly, IMO, these cases point
 >towards a physically real phenomenon not imagination or fantasy
 >at work. Thats why I have been so interested in them during
 >recent years.

 >In only a couple of the car stop cases I have studied have the
 >witnesses insisted that they tried the starter and it failed
 >several times, but after the UFO departed the engine and lights
 >returned to life without any action being taken by the driver.
 >Most often it starts on the first attempt to turn the engine
 >over after the departure of the UFO. In other words - normally -
 >but after a spell of inhibition.

In a case I investigated in 1971 a young lady reported her car
as she drove along a rural road (actually a long driveway
to her house) when there was a light over the car.
It was a small sports car (Triumph, I think).

The radio had been on and it stopped playing. Also the
headlights went out. She rolled down the window and stuck her
head out to look up to se what was making the light from above.
She was startled to see a circular object not far above the car.

Frantically he turned the starter switch but nothing happened.
Then suddenly the object moved away and she was able to start the
car. The lights came on. The radio did not. The radio had to be
repaired before it would work.

I did not get to the case until long after the radio had been
repaired. The guy who fixed it said he simply changed
transistors one after the other until the radio worked again.
Unfortunately he did not keep track of which transistor had
blown out.

If he had we might have obtained som useful information on which
circuits in the radio were (apparently) overloaded with current.

(I am assuming that the transistor failure was because of high
current and not a result of a huge "dose" of ionizing radiation
since the witnesses reported no effects of a huge burst of such
radiation.)








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                        Re: Vehicle Shutdown - Humour

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:39:58 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:11:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown - Humour


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 19:18:53 -0400
 >From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown - Humour
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >In order to solve this mystery, I enlisted the help of my
 >trusted mechanic, Allen Gray. He agreed to let me in on the
 >secret for the modest price of 3 gallons of strawberry ice
 >cream. Says he's planning a trip home this summer?...

 >Here's how it's done;

 >Gadget #1 - a sort of X-ray, MRI thingy that can see through the
 >hood of the car and view the electrons as they flow through the
 >spark plug wires and other electrical components. Oh yeah, it
 >can see thermal emissions as well. Use this baby to map the
 >ignition wires. Get gadget #2.

 >Gadget #2 - stereo multipolar tunneling particle beam. Every
 >well-equipped saucer has one. This is an indispensible tool for
 >applying a positive charge with one beam and negative with the
 >other, simultaneously. Great potential differences can be built
 >up remotely between two adjacent objects or focused for more
 >detailed work. Great fun at parties.

 >A positive charge is applied the engine block and car body,
 >somewhere in the area of several thousand volts, enough to keep
 >the plugs from sparking but not enough to arc to ground through
 >the tires. This stops the engine slowly and safely unless of
 >course you drive a deisel. 'smelly but virtually saucerproof!
 >OK the car stopped. That was the easy part...

 >To get going again, we have to apply a low voltage (about 12)
 >high current beam to the positive terminal on the starter. In
 >the UK, I believe it would be opposite. This may leave tell-tale
 >signs of scorching or small pinholes in the hood or fender of
 >the car. If the key is in the running position, the engine
 >should go.

 >This part of the operation takes a steady hand and a good
 >knowledge of auto mechanics. Greys are excellent mechanics
 >though, 90 deg. turns at mach 5 and nothing falls off, 'nuff
 >said. I wouldn't trust my Mazda to an earthling!

Now here is one post, Mr. Errol, Sir, that I would happily apply
a title of "Finally, the Truth Revealed!" It's the only one what
makes sense.

However, if your Mazda is a dual turbo, generation two
turbocharged vehicle, I do hereby offer you your price on it.
Assuming it is in good condition, with minimal pin holes and the
starter not damaged from "one too many mornings" with "them!"

Send me your asking price and make it righteous. I will pay a
righteous price.






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   May > May 1

                            Re: Roswell Yet Again

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:14:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Roswell Yet Again


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:20:14 -0600
 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Roswell Yet Again
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Marcel,
 >as most on this list probably know, claimed that the
 >photos he
 >was in showed the "real" wreckage and that the later
 >photos
 >showed balloon wreckage that had been switched.

<snip>

I looked into this quite a bit a couple years ago. In a later
interview, Marcel vigorously denied ever making the statement.
I tend to believe him, given the highly sensational nature of
the Moore/Berlitz book.



=====
Mac Tonnies
239 E. Sea
Independence, MO 65050
816-833-5910
macbot@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html









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                          Filer's Files #17 -- 2000

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 18:50:58 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:18:07 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #17 -- 2000


Filer's Files #17 -- 2000, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,  Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 1, 2000,   Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.


THE GRAND PLANETARY ALIGNMENT ON MAY 5, 2000

You will be hearing a great deal about a grand planetary
alignment on May 5th, 2000, that according to many predictions
will cause catastrophic events to occur on Earth.  Violent
windstorms, massive floods, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and
even tidal waves are predicted.  I have been receiving a steady
stream of these doomsday forecasts promising devastation and
they are based on Dr. Charles Hapgood's, Ph.D., book the "Path
Of The Pole" that claims that this planetary alignment is likely
to create enormous shifts in the Earth's crust.  The great
scientist Albert Einstein wrote the foreword of the book, so
there is some basis for the warnings.  The idea is that the
combined gravitational pull of Jupiter, Venus, Mercury, Saturn,
and Mars on planet Earth will create havoc causing twenty-degree
shifts of the poles.  Tidal waves hundreds of feet high are
forecast to crash over most of the coastlines of the world on
Friday.  An ice age is likely to follow shortly there after.
Sensational books, tabloids, newspapers, and proliferating web
sites all create a very violent period ahead for all of us.
Fortunately, several respected scientists do not agree with the
predictions.

I personally feel there will not be catastrophe.  Don't worry,
be happy for in March, I had heart surgery and learned an
important lesson.  Prayer works! My family and friends prayed
for me and I successfully made it through the surgery.  We also
prayed that we will all be safe on May 5.  We have some dire
scientific predictions that the world will end versus the power
of our prayer.  It should be an interesting experiment, but I am
confident that our prayers will work again.


NEW YORK UFOs DIVE INTO OCEAN

MONTAUK, LONG ISLAND -- On April 15, 2000, the witness reports,
"We were fishing off the pier at Montauk Point in the early
afternoon, and I saw a blazing light flash in the sky.  I
spotted three disc shaped objects hovering about 20 feet above
the Atlantic Ocean at 1:09 PM."  It seemed there were windows in
the craft, but I am not positive.  The discs were spinning in
circles, very tight circles for about five minutes and then they
plunged into the water.  When they dove into the water, there
was really no splash.  It was like there was an opening in the
ocean, and it just swallowed them up.  Editor's Note: UFOs have
often been observed entering and leaving the water.  It is
reasonable to assume they use water to cover their operations
and bases.  Thanks to Peter Davenport Director NUFORC
www.nuforc.com.


NEW JERSEY FLYING 'V' SIGHTING

SEA ISLE -- On March 31, 2000, Tom Hamm was inspecting a rental
property at the shore near the Atlantic Ocean.  While observing
west towards the bay from the roof at about 3:30 PM Tom says, "I
saw a flying "V" going in vertical motion."  Then it changed to
horizontal flight and also seemed to change shape.  I checked to
see if my girlfriend was observing; she also saw the object.  It
was quite far away but it looked like a UFO.  This the third
sighting we have had at the shore over the last several years.
Thanks to Tom Hamm, Thbhb.


MARYLAND UFOs VIDEO TAPED

BALTIMORE - Bill Bean writes, "I would like to report my latest
UFO video footage on April 24, 2000, from 11:40 AM to 12:40 PM."
In this one hour time span, I video taped 48 "Rods" and five
UFOs over my backyard.  This tape must be seen to be believed.
This is the largest number of objects I've caught on tape to
date.  I will be sending you a copy of this incredible footage.
These "Rods" are moving extremely fast and move both vertically
and horizontally.  Some are thin and shorter while others appear
to be very big and thicker [Cigar shaped].  If anyone out there
has similar footage.  Please contact me at bllin@erols.com.  If
anyone would like to more about me or my footage please go to my
website www.ufoman.net/    Thanks to Bill Bean, bllin@erols.com
(Bill & Linda Bean)


FLORIDA UFO CAUGHT ON VIDEO

NAPLES -- Scott Klein captured on video a comet-like object
moving across the sky at a snail's pace above the Gulf of Mexico
in February.  So far, authorities have not been able to identify
the ball of light he captured in the night sky.  Scott Klein has
captured something extraordinary on his home video camera.  In
fact, Klein has seven minutes worth of the object on tape as it
sailed across the night sky over the Gulf of Mexico before
disappearing behind the tree line.  Klein's young son, Lucas,
was the first to spot what he calls a slow moving  "big ball of
fire" as he played in the family's yard. He then told his
father, who began recording the object immediately after he saw
it.  The Klein's were excited about spreading the word about
what they saw in the sky, but the family was leaving on a trip
to Colorado the following morning.  They felt certain that
others had seen the object, and expected the news media to
explain the sighting.  They returned a week later and realized
that the media had not covered the story.  Scot Klein quickly
contacted NBC 2, as well as the National UFO Reporting Center,
which is now seeking more information from Kline.

GULF OF MEXICO -- Ship board witness reports, "My wife and I
were on the last night of a Western Caribbean cruise aboard the
MS Ryndam on April 15, 2000."  I had put our luggage out in the
hall of the ship to be collected, as we would be ending our trip
the next morning.  We departed Key West at 5:00 PM and were
sailing south going around the end of Florida heading for Fort
Lauderdale.  I was out on the deck listening to the waves and
gazing at the stars at 2:00 AM when I thought I saw a meteorite.
The light appeared on the western horizon of the Gulf of Mexico
and moved upward into the sky in a 45-degree arc.  As the
pinpoint of white light arched across the sky it got larger.  It
was spherical in shape (about the size of a fingernail at arm's
length) and I noticed a color shift to orange.  It seemed to
emit a hazy glow maybe from heat.  Then, as it continued to arch
across the sky I noticed that it was not flying a straight
course, but was oscillating rapidly up and down as it continued
moving forward.  It seemed unstable and then it dropped down
about 750 feet, hovered for an instant and then did a reverse
arch back above its original course.  Finally it proceeded to
the southeast at five times the speed it was moving before and
just disappeared.  I never seen anything like this and don't
know what to make of it.  Thanks to Peter Davenport and the
National Reporting Center at www.nuforc.com.


OHIO FLYING TRIANGLE SPOTTED BY FOUR WITNESSES

ST. CLAIRSVILLE -- Kenny Young reports that four witnesses
report visual observation of an unidentified aircraft described
as being triangular in shape with a total of seven lights on its
surface on April 28, 2000.  Two sisters, Nora and Betty, had
just exited the bowling alley in St. Clairsville.  As they were
heading to Betty's vehicle Nora spotted the triangular shaped
object almost hovering above them.  They watched the object for
a few moments and then got into their car to head to the local
Wal Mart.  They noticed the craft appeared to follow them.  Upon
exiting a store to approach their parked vehicle, they noticed
the object's very slow progression to the west.  Three of its
seven lights were red, three were green, and there was one
yellow-amber colored light, which pulsated or rotated.  All of
the lights blinked and appeared to be synchronized at 9:40 PM.
For the length of time the object was observed, it traveled at
twice the height of the trees, or about 100 feet off the ground.
It was the size of  "a jet airplane" but made no sound.  The
craft traveled in a west to northwest direction over Belmont
County.  It covered four miles in 50 minutes and just casually
left the area.  Both women got back into the car and headed to
Nora's where her sister had to drop her off.  They looked for
the craft but could not see it, so Nora called her daughter who
lives further west.  Her daughter, Jill, and her son Chad, both
watched the craft between 10:05 and 10:30 PM.  They observed it
taking two small 90-degree turns.  First to the right and then
back to the left.  Nora, stated, "It was not a plane and not a
blimp.  I'll probably never get to see it again either."  I am
going out tonight April 29, and look.  Thanks to Kenny Young
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/ and Don Keating.


MICHIGAN DIAMOND SHAPED UFO SPOTTED

MACOMB COUNTY -- Todd Lemire reports that six witnesses viewed a
diamond shaped craft on April 28th, 2000.  Todd says, "I
received an e-mail report form from a witness reporting a
"bright light in the sky with three airplanes near it at 9:30
PM, which disappeared and reappeared in a different spot in the
sky."  She goes on to state that six of us were outside at a
friends house and we were looking up at the sky because it was a
pretty clear night.  We saw a very bright light in the sky, not
moving much, with about three airplanes or helicopters around
it.  Then it disappeared.  When my brother and I were walking
back to our house, we saw it again with the airplanes around it
once more.  I guess it's a UFO!  Thanks to Todd Lemire,
tlemire@home.com, Michigan UFO CENTRAL
http://members.home.net/tlemire/UFOCENTRAL.html


TENNESSEE CROP CIRCLES

MILAN -- Nancy Talbot says, "I just got off phone with witness
to huge crop circle which occurred about mid-way between Memphis
and Nashville.  In a field of winter wheat immediately across
from her front door, a very long (perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 mile long)
pictogram occurred on the Sunday night, April 23-24, probably
about 3 am.  Witness's 10-year-old daughter and a "sleep-over"
friend were awakened at about 3 am by a "weird" humming noise;
there were no windows in the room they were sleeping in so it is
not known whether there was light phenomena associated.  A
family dog, which had been sleeping on the mother's bed, also
barked around this time.  At about 7 am Monday morning, upon
opening the front door to let the dog out, the mother saw the
huge crop formation in the field opposite her front door.  She
and a step-son went into the field briefly and noted somewhere
around 10 circles and associated pathways, at least one circle
that was ringed, another circle that had occurred around an
electricity pole in the middle of the field.  They did not
explore the whole formation because there are many snakes in
this field, including poisonous copperhead snakes and water
moccasins.  If you are thinking of visiting the site, wear high
boots.

After exiting the field, both the mother and stepson noted
"pain" in their legs, up to the knees.  Both also felt
"light-headed" and unusually fatigued all of this week since
being in the circle field.  The mother contacted a local
crop-duster, who is apparently also interested in crop circles,
and he stated that there was other crop circles "all over the
place" in this area.  In fact, the mother states that there is
another small circle in a field immediately behind her mobile
home, which occurred the same night as the larger one in front
of her house.  No aerial photos have yet been taken, but I've
alerted other interested parties in the area who will try to get
some, particularly since the crop duster is apparently willing
to take people up to get shots.  It is also of interest to note
that the phones and computer did not work the morning the crop
circles were discovered.

The mother also reports that some of the downed crop was already
yellow on the first day after the formation was found.  Also,
the mother had noted about a week previously that there was dead
cow lying in a driveway about 1/2 mile from her home and that
there seemed to be very peculiar cuts on this animal.  In
addition, the mother reported a very peculiar incident that had
happened to her when she was 15 or 16 years old, living in
Selmer, TN with her mother, 2 sisters, and a brother.  She
related this story to me stating that it had "nothing to do with
the crop circle," but I am not so sure:  on the night of this
incident she and her mother and sisters and brother were all
awakened in their home at about 2 am by a strange "beeping"
noise directly over their house; then, in sync with the beeping
sound, a beam of light came down through their ceiling, on and
off, for 10 to 15 minutes.  The whole family was terrified and
afraid to go outside and look up.  The next morning she was
found to have massive bruises all over her legs, which could not
be accounted for.  That same day a young boy who lived nearby
came to visit her and told her, without knowing about the
family's experience, that a relative of his who had been out
"spooning" that night nearby had seen a number of "aliens" which
had so frightened him that he'd driven the whole way home with
all 4 car-doors open and flying about.  Thanks to Nancy
Talbott/BLT Research


IDAHO SIGHTING OF A FORMATION OF LIGHTS

TABLEROCK -- Ike Bishop MUFON's State Director reports I had an
interesting sighting here on April 21, 2000.  It started when I
received a call from investigator Chris Altman about a bright
light in the Table Rock area at 10:45 PM.  I went outside and
was able to see it as well.  I noted that it was between the
landing path of the airport, and the microwave towers of
Tablerock.  The light was not flashing and stationary and would
turn off and on in no particular pattern.  The object appeared
to be about four miles distant.  I drove to a vantage point on
Federal Way with unobstructed view and looked for the light.
The light was gone and was soon replaced by four dim lights in a
linear pattern with no blinking.  It looked like the Phoenix
lights only smaller.  There appeared to be a larger space
between the second and third lights.  The others were evenly
spaced.  This formation appeared to be advancing toward Boise,
because the lights became brighter and drifted to the north at a
very slow pace, much slower than conventional craft.  The
formation went behind the mountains and disappeared.  The sky
was clear, but had a haze due to high humidity gave the stars
only about 50% of their normal brightness.  This could only mean
that the formation was closer than one would imagine.  It was
two football fields in length.  I was unable to see any craft
associated with the formation since it was about twelve miles
away at an altitude of 8,000 feet.  Investigator Chris Altman
was able to capture first bright light on videotape and a local
TV station is enhancing the video.  The length of sighting was
fifteen minutes.  Thanks to Ike Bishop MUFON's State Director of
Idaho.


TRIANGULAR SHAPED BLACK SPOT AIRCRAFT AT AREA 51

The March and April issues of the UK-based magazine AIRCRAFT
ILLUSTRATED have a two part series  "Secrets of Area 51."
According to the following excerpt by Meinrad Eberle a
triangular shaped aircraft was sighted, and a radio message
intercepted at 06:00 AM on September 8, 1999, "The Swiss hikers
Raffi Bloechlinger, Dino Regli and this writer intercept and
tape-record the following radio message from Tikaboo Peak over
looking Groom Lake.   "Now traffic departing off Runway 32, a
Fastmover, the winds calm, cleared for take-off!"  The witnesses
watched its takeoff roll [starting off from the intersection of
the base's Southern Delta Taxiway with    Runway 14L-32 R],
using image-stabilized 15x45 CANON binoculars: [SNIP]
Streamlined silhouette, smoothed-out overall appearance, massive
upper main body/fuselage, and no shining parts whatsoever
visible.  Aircraft in dark color, most probably black, cockpit
hardly visible, well integrated into aircraft body with two very
high and massive-looking rear fins close to wingtips.  There was
no undercarriage whatsoever visible and no signs of engines
mounted under, at or right above wings.  No signs of engines
integrated into lower aircraft body and no engine inlets
visible.  The aircraft continued accelerating down the tarmac
and got airborne before climbing swiftly to altitude,
accompanied by a distinctly audible low rumbling, but not
pulsating noise.  The craft then hung a left turn high above
Emigrant Valley, not too far away from Bald Mountain.

Previously seen in side view, the craft's silhouette then
started growing -- into a DELTA SHAPED PLATFORM, showing us its
flat, dull dark (black)? belly.  No engines were visible, no
apparent air intakes and no under-fuselage stores of any kind --
just a smoothed-out triangular bodywork.  The estimated overall
length: 100 feet, overall height: 12+ feet, width: 55 feet with
an estimated wing sweep of 75 degrees.  Also striking was the
complete lack of lights on the aircraft.  Neither any blinking
or turning red anti-collision nor any other lights of any
description/color were visible.  Just one dark mass turning
westward, steadfastly heading out of sight.  Visible was a
roughly segmented rear wing area with two vertical fins, which
left us with the initial impression that they were slightly
canted outward, reaching up higher than the main fuselage.  My
two colleagues had the impression that they were not canted in
any way.  Topping it all off were two huge, just HUGE exhausts,
which appeared to be still on afterburner.  The engine exhausts
seemed to be integrated into the main upper fuselage, rather
than bolted down onto wing area.  The A-12 aircraft is similar.
For additional Area 51 info, exclusive pictures, trip reports,
etc., do not forget to check out http://www.desertsecrets.com
AI website at  http://www.ianallanpub.co.uk/airillus.  Thanks to
Joe Stefula and Meinrad Eberle.


CALIFORNIA PLASMA CLOUDS

MADERA -- Robert Cunningham reports that after reading your
article I would like to relate that while sitting in our
backyard at 8:30 PM, in May of 1985. The sun had already set and
we had just had a heavy rainstorm, I looked up toward the sky
and right overhead were two clear-colored oval shaped "cells."
They were both moving very fast, one right behind the other, in
a wave motion like they were moving over an invisible roiling
sea, going in a northerly direction.  When they were right over
me about 200 feet up, they made a hissing sound and the edges of
both of the "cells" lit up.  Just the outside edges lit up for a
couple of seconds and then the lights went out.  They continued
on their way like they knew exactly where they were going.  A
family next store saw them too and screamed when they heard the
hissing and saw the lights come on.  It is something I will
never forget!  Robert Cunningham swim39@sierra.psnw.com


CHILEAN UFO LEAVES MARKS

Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo reports the Chile 'Cronica'
Newspaper, April 24, 2000.  headlines were that a "UFO Makes a
Giant Triangle in the Region."  Jose Ignacio Prieto and four
friends were happily having dinner when they felt some heat and
the lights went off.  They were in darkness, when a strong blue
light came through the dining room windows leaving them
temporarily blinded.  After that, the lights came back on.  The
next day they found a giant triangular mark in the ground with a
base of 35 meters with each side some 20 meters apart.  In one
of the triangles, there is a tower that carries high voltage
electricity.  The triangle is on a small hill of 30-degree
inclination.  The plants inside the triangle were bent at the
base like crop circles.  The police from Tucapel went to the
remote area and verified the marks. The newspaper reported on
other UFO sightings in this region.  In San Pedro de Atacama,
police received reports of strange red lights (UFOs).
Anti-narcotic police went to investigate the area looking for a
clandestine trafficker airstrip, but to their surprise, also
found a perfect triangular mark.  This triangle was 50 meters
base, and was formed by small rocks, no bigger than ten
centimeters that appear to be burned.  "They were hot to touch."
police reported.  NOTE: Chile is also experiencing a rash of
'Chupacabra' attacks.  More than 200 animals; chickens, ducks,
doves, dogs, cats, goats, pigs and cows were attacked in the
past weeks by unidentified blood sucking predators.  Thanks to
Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo Miami UFO Center ,
ufomiami@prodigy.net,
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/ufomiami/index.html


FRENCH COMETA REPORT

Gildas Bourdias writes, "First, I want to tell how much I
appreciate your "Filer's Files".  It's really one of the best
sources of information that I know.  However, I feel the need to
correct you comments on the French "Cometa report" (Filer's
Files No 16). That report is a purely private initiative: it is
not a report sponsored or initiated by the official IHEDN, even
though many members of Cometa have been "auditors" at IHEDN  (on
the other hand, they are not  "junior auditors", contrary to
what Perry Petrakis claimed last year, in an effort to
depreciate the report).  In short, the Cometa members are close
to official circles but it is still a private initiative.  The
other point is that they have not written that UFOs are a
"threat."  More subtly, they said that it is a serious question,
which must be studied from the defense    viewpoint.  Hence the
title "What must we prepare for?"  Cordially,  Gildas Bourdais


ENGLAND 'V' SHAPED UFO

WHITEFIELD, MANCHESTER -- Ian who works has a Network
Development Manager had a sighting of a UFO that shot vertically
towards space on April 9, 2000,at 11:45 PM in his back garden.
I positively saw an unidentified flying object, which was in my
opinion, definitely not a conventional aircraft.  The event took
place in less than a minute on a perfectly clear night.  The
crescent moon allowed me to see the edges of the entire moon.
After seeing the Northern Lights earlier last week, I popped out
into my garden to see if the event would be repeated.  I saw a
bright star-like flash.  Thirty seconds later it flashed again
in the same position.  I looked directly above towards the edge
of my roof and saw a large V shaped object 'gliding' in a
Northwest direction.  The craft made no noise, and for the want
of a better word, it maneuvered more fluidly than any aircraft I
have ever seen.  The back of the V had vents with glowing red
and orange lights.  These were on both lengths of the 'V' and
may have been engines of some kind.  There was a haze close to
the lights causing distortion like you see on a road on a hot
day.  The object then smoothly stopped and turned north without
banking.  Turned to face my direction, so all I could see was a
rectangular outline with three white dots (one at each end and
one in the middle).  The lights then flashed very brightly and
the object turned, pointed upwards, and shot directly up in the
air showing only its red vents at the back before disappearing.
I was a member of the Territorial Army and was trained to
identify military and civilian aircraft.  Thanks to Ben Field,
BUFOD,  www.bufod.co.uk.


HOLLAND, FIRST OF CENTURY CROSS FORMS ON GOOD FRIDAY,

HOEVEN -- Nancy Talbott writes,  "Here's what I can tell you
about the probably the first crop circle of the century."  A
Ten-circle formation in the shape of a "cross" was discovered in
a grass field near a small village in southern Holland in the
early morning hours of Good Friday on April 21, 2000.  The crop
circle was found by Robbert v/d Broeke and his parents after
Robbert awoke at 4:00 AM after an extremely lucid 'dream,' in
which he had heard a familiar voice call his name.  He then
'saw' a large, very bright white light over the field in which
the formation was subsequently discovered; as he 'watched.'  He
then observed multiple small balls of light, some 'orangey' and
some bluish, descend from the white light down toward the
surface of the tall grass.  In his 'dream' he did not actually
see the crop circle itself, but felt sure that a new formation
had occurred--which was, in fact, discovered a few hours later.

For the last six years, Robert has had similar 'dreams' or
intuitions about new crop circles having formed, sometimes in
locations far distant from his home, but where new formations
are subsequently discovered.  In this case, the field in which
the Good Friday cross was discovered is very near the location
of several past crop circles and is adjacent to an area where he
has witnessed multiple balls of light on many occasions.
Several years ago during the afternoon, he was observing
multiple balls of light spiraling over a nearby field when some
of these 'detached' themselves from the larger spiraling mass,
approached him and began to circle around him; he apparently
became unconscious and, when he awoke some time later, found
himself lying inside the middle of a new circle.  In many cases
the plants and soils from Robbert's crop circles have been
tested by the BLT Research Team and have been found to have the
elongated nodes, expulsion cavities and germination
abnormalities consistently found in crop formation plants around
the world.  It is interesting that Robbert's report (in his
'dream') of a large white ball of light from which smaller,
colored, lights descend to the crop surface is echoed by a
report obtained from an elderly farmer in southern England some
years ago--who observed a very similar event at 4:00 AM in one
of his fields where a new formation was discovered at daylight.
Actual sightings of crop circles forming are rare.  And although
in this case the young man was asleep in his bed and witnessed
the event in a 'dream,' the similarity of this report with the
unpublished account of the elderly farmer who was AWAKE during
his observation is striking."  Thanks to Nancy Talbot
bltresearch@mediaone.net (Nancy Talbott). Editors Note: If
someone is trying to send a message, it is interesting that the
first known crop circle of this century was made on Good Friday
in the shape of a cross.

SPACE SHUTTLE FOOTAGE: There is lots of talk about UFOs seen
from the space shuttle.  Decide for yourself, Jeff Chandler has
put together raw video footage of the NASA downloads.  Learn
exactly what is ice crystals and camera smudges?  You can decide
for yourself. Jeff gives pointers on how to look for UFOs versus
the standard excuses.  This is raw footage but well worth
seeing. Only $25.00.

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available and
data on their propulsion systems by US Navy Commander Graham
Bethune.. $10.00. Send check or money order to G. Filer 222
Jackson Road, Medford, New Jersey 08055

BEFORE YOU BUY OR SELL A HOME SEE MY FREE REPORT --
All real estate agents are not the same?  Some real estate
agents or sales representatives are part timers and
inexperienced.  Others are experts with an excellent experience
and capabilities.  When you are selling or buying your home, you
need to make sure you have the best real estate agent working
for you before you make any important financial decisions on one
your biggest investments!  Remember, the majority of people do
not know the right questions to ask, and what pit falls can
cause major problems.  Picking the right real estate agent can
be a wonderful experience, and picking the wrong one can be a
big mistake that can waste your time and cost you thousands!
Find out, "What you need to understand before hiring any real
estate agent!" These are the questions that many agents do not
want you to ask.  Learn how you can obtain the best real estate
agent for your needs.  To get a free copy of this report, just
call (609) 654-0020 or e-mail us at Majorstar@aol.com. We can
also help you with your own or corporate Worldwide Relocation to
Australia, Benelux, Canada, Cayman Islands, England, France,
Guam, Hong Kong, Israel, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, Northern
Ireland, Papua New Guinea, Philippines, Puerto Rico, and all 50
states of the United States.  We also have help with associates
that speak languages other than their native tongue.

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I
recommended you for membership.  Filer's Files is Copyrighted
2000 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from the Files on their Web Sites provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared.  Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com.  Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish.  Please state if you wish to keep your name
or story confidential.







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 1

                 Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:52:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:18:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:16:57 -0500
 >From: John Pierson <johnpierson@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Source: Rowland Network Communications

 >>http://bbs.rowlandnet.com/cgi-bin/WebX?14@@.ee6c827/69

 >>Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing

<snip>

 >Something just doesn't seem right here.

 >Bell quits his radio program one day before his defamation
 >hearing. He claims to have been harmed (almost) irrepairably.
 >It is said in a press release that he will leave all public
 >life, which includes publishing.

 >Correct me if Im wrong, but doesn't that seem like he is setting
 >it up not only to sue for dafamation but also for 'lost wages'?
 >In other words, he is demonstrating that he has been so affected
 >by this ordeal that he will no longer be able to generate an
 >income from what he loves the most and has done the longest?

 >Anybody else see that?

 >Nothing about this latest departure seems quite right.


Art Bell, the same guy who said he was going to completely
withdraw from public life, yet chose to announce to his national
radio audience where the hearing for his lawsuit was going to be
at and on what day. So much for privacy...

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpose: The Watchdog of UFOlogy
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog
ufowatchdog@earthlink.net







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 1

                Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:31:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:15:39 -0400
Subject: Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa


South Africa alerts NASA as large metal balls fall from sky
By Christopher Munnion in Johannesburg

Tuesday, May 2, 2000
Source: Electronic Telegraph - www.telegraph.co.uk

NASA space officials in America have been asked by the South
African authorities to help identify the origin of two large
metal balls that fell from the sky on to farmland in the Boland
region north of Cape Town.

The first, weighing about 70lb, landed on Pieter Viljoen's wine
farm at Worcester. Mr Viljoen said: "My staff said they heard
two loud bangs like gunshots and saw the shining ball fall near
the vineyards. It was too hot to touch for 30 minutes but once
it cooled I loaded it on to my truck and the police have taken
it for analysis."

A police spokesman said: "The witnesses said it was white hot
when it landed. It appears to be solid iron and there is a
section that contains bolts. I don't know what it could be." The
second, larger ball, which fell at Durbanville, was oval, up to
5ft long and weighed about 110lb. Farm workers again reported
hearing two loud bangs like gunshots just before it landed.

Astronomers said the objects could be part of a decaying
satellite. Nasa had predicted that parts of a Pegasus satellite
would fall to earth, they said.

End of article
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 1

                       Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com.
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:28:59 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:47:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?


 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net
 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:47:11 -0700
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 22:05:43 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

 >I can understand the reddish hue during a dust storm while the
 >sun is up.

 >I could envision a darkish grey otherwise, due to the very thin
 >atmosphere, a very very small fraction of our atmosphere.

 >Other colors may come from ionization of whatever gases are
 >present, CO2 or maybe a little water vapor.

 >Blue however implies ozone or free oxygen.

Larry, Lan:

I think the blue is due to preferential scattering of blue light
by the actual molecules of the atmosphere, not ionization of the
O.

Some scattering is by reflection, when the particles of dust for
example are large in relation to the wavelength of light, but
the rest is by diffraction, when the molecules are small in
comparison to the wavelength of light. This later is the cause
of the blue sky. As John pointed out, this is Raleigh
Scattering, and the scattering is proportional to the inverse
fourth power of the wavelength, which results in blue being
scattered more than red. This is what gives us our blue skies,
and also should give Mars a blue sky when there is not much
dust.

Brian's info about the season and John's table of directions and
colors is also very useful.

Clear skies,

Bob







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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 2

                 Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing

From: Daniel D. Moroff <smoothie7@home.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:42:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 02:08:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:52:33 -0700
 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:16:57 -0500
 >>From: John Pierson <johnpierson@mindspring.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Source: Rowland Network Communications

 >>>http://bbs.rowlandnet.com/cgi-bin/WebX?14@@.ee6c827/69

 >>>Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing

 ><snip>

 >>Something just doesn't seem right here.

 >>Bell quits his radio program one day before his defamation
 >>hearing. He claims to have been harmed (almost) irrepairably.
 >>It is said in a press release that he will leave all public
 >>life, which includes publishing.

 >>Correct me if Im wrong, but doesn't that seem like he is setting
 >>it up not only to sue for dafamation but also for 'lost wages'?
 >>In other words, he is demonstrating that he has been so affected
 >>by this ordeal that he will no longer be able to generate an
 >>income from what he loves the most and has done the longest?

 >>Anybody else see that?

 >>Nothing about this latest departure seems quite right.

 >Art Bell, the same guy who said he was going to completely
 >withdraw from public life, yet chose to announce to his national
 >radio audience where the hearing for his lawsuit was going to be


Art Bell was is and probably always will be difficult to figure
out. Nothing about this whole situation seems right. It's not
as though he was overworked anyway. He worked 3 night a week.

I agree with you, there's something not quite Kosher about all
this. The only problem is that I really don't care much for Art
Bell. As far as I'm concerned 'Strange Days....Indeed' is one
of if not the best program of it's kind on the radio. I've got
friends in England, Australia and New Zealand listening but I
digress.

I can't believe that someone with the 4th largest radio audience
would simply quit in the manner he did. However, unless Art,
someday, comes clean. We'll never know the real story. Isn't
that quaint? Another mystery to figure out, Something to talk
about......

Smoothie




at and on what day. So much for privacy...

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpose: The Watchdog of UFOlogy
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog
ufowatchdog@earthlink.net




\_______________________________________________/

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  by Errol Bruce-Knapp - 416-696-0304

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 2

                              STS-75 UFO Video

From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:56:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 02:12:05 -0400
Subject: STS-75 UFO Video


Several things struck me while I watched the STS-75 video on the
last TV UFO special ("Real Evidence" or some such) narrated by
Johnathan Frakes.

The objects floating about did not really appear to react to or
interact in any way with the tether even though the voice-over
would lead one to believe the contrary. I had the impression of
small particles floating about in the foreground with the tether
far behind. The foreground objects are actually too small to see
but are reflecting light and completely out of focus, as I would
suspect the tether was the object of interest. Think of dust
motes you see floating in the air when bright sunlight shines
through a crack in a curtain... and squint.

The fact that the largest object appears to pass behind the
tether is just a trick of the light. The tether is glowing
brightly, as the fuzzy smear of light from the foreground speck
passes in front, it is obscured by the brighter object in the
background only to reappear on the other side after passing
through that crucial line of sight between the camera and the
tether. I have observed similiar effects with my quickcam.
Somewhat mediocre analogy: If you hold a match up to an intense
light you don't see the flame so much as the bright light behind
it. The foreground object can actually appear to pass behind the
background object. Believe it or not!

Finally, the pulsing or strobing observed in the large
foreground smear may be due to a flashing indicator light on the
camera ( batt. low ? ) face or a similiar device on the shuttle
console.

A somewhat unrelated note: How the young gentleman at the end of
this particular clip managed to relate it to the Dzopa disks of
China, all in one breath, just floored me. No connection
whatsoever in my mind, even if they were saucers buzzing about
the tether. This isn't a rock show. Points awarded for accuracy
and clear concise reasoning, not hype and pitch. It's bad enough
that the editing and cutting done in these productions tend to
throw out the meat and keep the fluff to give the show the spin
they're looking for. This results in expert's commentary being
left to sound ambiguous with a quick snip, I'm sure.

Sorry for the rant but this type of thing has been burning my
butt as of late. The majority of the footage on the show was
pretty blase and treated in much the same manner. Perhaps the
title had me expecting too much.

There was one highlight to the show. Bruce Maccabbee's hair is
once more grown past his ears and fast approaching his
shoulders, just like a respectable haircut should. 'had me
worried :)

Cheers,

Rick Goldsmith








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   May > May 2

                            Re: STS-75 UFO Video

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 04:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:06:28 -0400
Subject: Re: STS-75 UFO Video


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:56:54 -0400
 >From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
 >Subject: STS-75 UFO Video
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Several things struck me while I watched the STS-75 video on the
 >last TV UFO special ("Real Evidence" or some such) narrated by
 >Johnathan Frakes.

 >The objects floating about did not really appear to react to or
 >interact in any way with the tether even though the voice-over
 >would lead one to believe the contrary. I had the impression of
 >small particles floating about in the foreground with the tether
 >far behind. The foreground objects are actually too small to see
 >but are reflecting light and completely out of focus, as I would
 >suspect the tether was the object of interest. Think of dust
 >motes you see floating in the air when bright sunlight shines
 >through a crack in a curtain... and squint.

 >The fact that the largest object appears to pass behind the
 >tether is just a trick of the light. The tether is glowing
 >brightly, as the fuzzy smear of light from the foreground speck
 >passes in front, it is obscured by the brighter object in the
 >background only to reappear on the other side after passing
 >through that crucial line of sight between the camera and the
 >tether. I have observed similiar effects with my quickcam.
 >Somewhat mediocre analogy: If you hold a match up to an intense
 >light you don't see the flame so much as the bright light behind
 >it. The foreground object can actually appear to pass behind the
 >background object. Believe it or not!

 >Finally, the pulsing or strobing observed in the large
 >foreground smear may be due to a flashing indicator light on the
 >camera ( batt. low ? ) face or a similiar device on the shuttle
 >console.

 >A somewhat unrelated note: How the young gentleman at the end of
 >this particular clip managed to relate it to the Dzopa disks of
 >China, all in one breath, just floored me. No connection
 >whatsoever in my mind, even if they were saucers buzzing about
 >the tether. This isn't a rock show. Points awarded for accuracy
 >and clear concise reasoning, not hype and pitch. It's bad enough
 >that the editing and cutting done in these productions tend to
 >throw out the meat and keep the fluff to give the show the spin
 >they're looking for. This results in expert's commentary being
 >left to sound ambiguous with a quick snip, I'm sure.

 >Sorry for the rant but this type of thing has been burning my
 >butt as of late. The majority of the footage on the show was
 >pretty blase and treated in much the same manner. Perhaps the
 >title had me expecting too much.

 >There was one highlight to the show. Bruce Maccabbee's hair is
 >once more grown past his ears and fast approaching his
 >shoulders, just like a respectable haircut should. 'had me
 >worried :)


Dear Listers, Rick, Errol and whomever,

As a nearly perfect nobody, with no formal education in trick
photography, physics, swamp gas or swan poop, and not even a
smigeon of pigeon poop... what you wrote makes sense to me.

But wait, there's more. Not only do your opines appear to make
sense, they also make me very nearly ticked off at you for
stating them. I much prefer to have believed in the images as
being "them" and not dust motes or ice particles. It's so much
more exciting and romantic, in'it?

Rick, you are either not a researcher or merely being sensible.
You cannot be both at the same time. Come on ... 'fess up.

Jim








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   May > May 2

                       Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 01:46:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:10:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:41:41 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:45:46 -0700
 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

 >Larry asked:

 >>Can you guys please stop alla this stuff, and answer a
 >>simple question?

 >>Lets say a regular person from Planet Earth goes to
 >>Mars. He looks up in the sky. What color does he see?

<snip>

 >Hi Larry, EBK & List

 >Forget about the air Larry, what about the JW-Black label rocket
 >fuel. Then we would all see pink elephants. However, from the
 >general rules in the books and with Mr. HUBBLE hot on our tail,
 >you should/may see this?

 >------------------------------------------
 >    LOOK DIRECTION
 >   --------------------------
 > SKY TYPE = ^Up^  <across>
 >------------------------------------------
 >[1] Dust/Wind = Salmon Dark Salmon
 >[2] Clear  = Light Blue Salmon+Blue
 >[3] Cloud  = White+Blue  ?
 >[3] Sunset = Dark Blue  Red+Pink
 >------------------------------------------

This simple table is helpful. Clearly its more
complex than I thought. -LH

 >[a]. The local illumination conditions at the time depend on
 >  season, sun elevation.

 >[b]. The blue-sky phenomenon was later explained theoretically
 >  by Lord Rayleigh.

 >Larry asked:

 >>Is that such a complicated matter?

<snip>

 >Well, as the story goes (?), the problem with the surface camera
 >images is a technical one, a possible "rubbish in rubbish out"
 >or "where did that come from, the engine, what is it, how do I
 >know, then just put it in the boot" - Fortean.

 >Some one at HUBBLE said, "the colours are wrong" - VIKING say
 >"thats what it looks like and thats the best we could do".

<snip>

 >So a MR HUBBLE said, take a look at the links from the HUBBLE
 >crew.

 >http://www.physics.utoledo.edu/~pbj/stormpage.html

 >[] MARS CLOUD ---- B/W extraction ----

 >http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/jpeg/marsbwc.jpg

 >http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/hrtemp/97-15a.jpg

 >[] MARS ---- Blue Atmosphere ----

 >http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/hrtemp/97-23.jpg

 >     ***

 >EARTH IMAGE - Note: STS cameras are nothing like the above
 >samples.

 >[] EARTH ---- Looking Down ----

 >http://earth.jsc.nasa.gov/Images/STS066/lores/STS066-152-172.JPG

 >http://earth.jsc.nasa.gov/Images/STS048/lores/STS048-083-077.JPG

 >[] EARTH ---- Looking Side ----

 >http://earth.jsc.nasa.gov/Images/STS052/lores/STS052-082-007.JPG

 >http://earth.jsc.nasa.gov/Images/STS059/lores/STS059-238-088.JPG
 >
 >     ***

 >THE JPL TEST:

 >When you correct the images data on Viking 2 using the CO2
 >ground frost images and the white instrument cover - the sky
 >becomes BLUE. (?)

 >http://cass.jsc.nasa.gov/images/sred2/sred2_S30.gif

 >REF: Frost at the Viking 2 Lander (48�N, 226�W)
 >  Viking Lander image = 21I093

 >Then there is the story about the "Colour Test Pads" and the
 >Magnifying Mirror...

<snip>

Dear John:

That's a lot of slow loading images!

One of them clearly shows a very blue limb on the "bottom" of
Mars (as shown). That is a surprise for me.

All this color rectification has my head spinning a bit. Perhaps
we will have to wait until an actual human lands on Mars. [ For
heavens sake lets be sure he or she isn't color-blind! ]

Then, if at all necessary, we can make corrections or
adjustments to the color-matrix you gave above.

Thank you for your thoughtful and complex reply!

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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               International UFO & New-Age Symposium Istanbul,

From: Haktan Akdogan - UFOTR <Ufotr@netone.com.tr>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:14:00 +0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:20:12 -0400
Subject: International UFO & New-Age Symposium Istanbul,


The Second Annual UFO And New Age Symposium Of Eastern-Europe,
Balkans And Middle-East


To whom it may concern,

We; 'Sirius UFO Space Sciences Research Center' would like to
inform you of the 'Second International UFO and New Age
Symposium of Eastern Europe, Balkans and Middle East' which will
take place on the 23rd, 24th and 25th of June 2000 in Istanbul,
Turkey.

This follows the First International UFO Symposium which was a
tremendous success and was met by a huge public interest which
still continues. It took place on the 20th and 21st of February
1999 in Istanbul and was attended by over 5200 people from
Turkey and from various neighbouring countries. It also
attracted mass media coverage of over 185 journalists and
reporters from different countries.

The speakers at the First UFO Symposium were; Erich von Daniken,
Stanton T.Friedman, Budd Hopkins, Micheal Lindemann, Dr. Bruce
Maccabee, Prof.John E.Mack, Prof. Brian O�Leary, Marina
Popovich, Travis Walton and George Wingfield.

The Second Symposium which will take place for 3 days is going
to be even larger than the First Symposium. It will be held at
the biggest and most sophisticated Conference Center in Turkey
which has an audience capacity of over 3000 people per day, so
it will host about 10 thousand people in 3 days...

Each lecturer will have 90 minutes to speak. The Conference
Center has a giant screen of 13 meters wide on stage and all the
technical aids required will be provided. There will be
simultaneous translation for the audience via headphones.

Here are this year�s speakers:

Prof. John E. Mack
Stanton T.Friedman,
Nick Pope
Derrel Sims
Wendelle Stevens
Donald Ware
Robert O. Dean
Budd Hopkins
Sean David Morton
K.T. Frankovich
Kelly Cahill
Marcia Schafer
Sheldan Nidle
Lyssa Royal

Best regards,

Haktan Akdogan
Founder and Chairman
Sirius UFO Space Sciences Research Center

For more info. please contact us at :
Tel : 90 216 369 92 48 or 369 92 52
Fax: 90 216 369 92 52
E-mail: ufotr@netone.com.tr








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                               Re: Greek Sense

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 07:11:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:24:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Greek Sense


 >Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 15:38:22 -0500 (CDT)
 >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >Subject: Greek Sense
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >An interesting quote, found scribbled in an old 1973 diary of
 >mine, back when I was in physics at the University of Texas:

 >   "To consider the earth as the only populated
 >    world in infinite space is as absurd as to
 >    assert that in an entire field of grain
 >    sown with millet, only one grain will grow."

 >         - Metrodoros
 >           4th Century B.C.

 >Anyone know a way on the web to verify such quotes? I did a
 >quick search engine check, but not much luck. Just curious,

 >-Brian C.


http://bigear.org/vol1no3/life.htm

Man's conviction about the existence of other life forms beyond
earth is not a development of our modern, scientific age. As
early as in the 4th century B.C. the Epicurean philosopher
Metrodoros wrote,

     "To consider the earth as the only populated world in
     infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire
     field sown with millet only one grain will grow."


---










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                 Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:07:12 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 11:29:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:42:24 -0400
 >From: Daniel D. Moroff <smoothie7@home.com>
 >Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 19:52:33 -0700
 >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 12:16:57 -0500
 >>>From: John Pierson <johnpierson@mindspring.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: Art Bell Prevails In Defamation Hearing
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >I can't believe that someone with the 4th largest radio audience
 >would simply quit in the manner he did. However, unless Art,
 >someday, comes clean. We'll never know the real story. Isn't
 >that quaint? Another mystery to figure out, Something to talk
 >about......

 >at and on what day. So much for privacy...


I don't know much about this topic one way or another. I'm just
wondering where you three came from all of a sudden.

Don Ledger








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                            Re: STS-75 UFO Video

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:13:07 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:55:27 -0400
Subject: Re: STS-75 UFO Video


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:56:54 -0400
 >From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
 >Subject: STS-75 UFO Video
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Several things struck me while I watched the STS-75 video on the
 >last TV UFO special ("Real Evidence" or some such) narrated by
 >Johnathan Frakes.

 >The objects floating about did not really appear to react to or
 >interact in any way with the tether even though the voice-over
 >would lead one to believe the contrary. I had the impression of
 >small particles floating about in the foreground with the tether
 >far behind. The foreground objects are actually too small to see
 >but are reflecting light and completely out of focus, as I would
 >suspect the tether was the object of interest. Think of dust
 >motes you see floating in the air when bright sunlight shines
 >through a crack in a curtain... and squint.

<snip>


I didn't get to see this show but was unfortunate enough to have
stunbled onto a program called Into the Unknown last night. A
rehash of the Area 51 thing. Thay managed to solve all UFO
sightings by explaining them away as U-2s [a Lockheed T-33 with
longer wings] or SR-71s. It was a real annoying, unresearched
program.

Don









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                            Re: What's Up There?

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:37:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:57:22 -0400
Subject: Re: What's Up There?


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 03:12:42 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: What's Up There?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Errol, Listers and Everyone else,

 >While this may be a curiosity or merely something about which I
 >am completely unfamiliar, I suggest looking at this picture
 >taken by SOHO, of a solar ejection mass which took place on the
 >30th of April. This time sequenced video shows a number of
 >interesting images along with the solar ejection. Several
 >meteors are visible steaking across the sky and what looks very
 >much like a planet, although I know not which one, is also
 >visible in the left center of the film. It is moving slowly
 >towards the sun. All these objects are moving in straight
 >lines, as they are supposed to be doing.

 >However the most interesting object appears in the upper right
 >quadrant and loops in towards the sun in an arc, then loops out
 >into the lower right quadrant.

 >Anyone have any ideas as to what it may be? Just curious I am.
 >However I am not aware of any objects, even man made, that move
 >quickly in an arc as this thing does.

 >Hoping for a simple explanation on the one hand, and no
 >explanation on the other. The latter being more interesting
 >than the former, as everyone loves a mystery.

Most of the transient objects are comets. The large object is
Jupiter. Remember, the planets are coming into alignment on May
5th? End of the world, etc.

One really interesting object does not appear in the
spaceweather.com animation. For that one, go to:

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/

and follow the links on the "torpedo", a large "projectile"
which seems to strike the sun right where a CME occurs.

Sky and Telescope magazine has an article on the planetary
alignment which implies that we might actually see some activity
result. Although, it would not be volcanoes and tidal waves;
but, a distortion of the body of the sun. Who knows what *that*
could do! See:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/special/whypanic.html

Don't worry -- be happy -- guzzle gripple!!

Terry










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              Re: Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 07:50:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:58:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:31:09 -0400
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>,


Hello, all.

 >South Africa alerts NASA as large metal balls fall from sky
 >By Christopher Munnion in Johannesburg

 >Tuesday, May 2, 2000
 >Source: Electronic Telegraph - www.telegraph.co.uk

 >NASA space officials in America have been asked by the South
 >African authorities to help identify the origin of two large
 >metal balls that fell from the sky on to farmland in the Boland
 >region north of Cape Town.

 >The first, weighing about 70lb, landed on Pieter Viljoen's wine
 >farm at Worcester. Mr Viljoen said: "My staff said they heard
 >two loud bangs like gunshots and saw the shining ball fall near
 >the vineyards. It was too hot to touch for 30 minutes but once
 >it cooled I loaded it on to my truck and the police have taken
 >it for analysis."

 >A police spokesman said: "The witnesses said it was white hot
 >when it landed. It appears to be solid iron and there is a
 >section that contains bolts. I don't know what it could be." The
 >second, larger ball, which fell at Durbanville, was oval, up to
 >5ft long and weighed about 110lb. Farm workers again reported
 >hearing two loud bangs like gunshots just before it landed.

Iron with bolts? Steel maybe, possibly Russian-they'll get the
'blame' I'll bet.

 >Astronomers said the objects could be part of a decaying
 >satellite. Nasa had predicted that parts of a Pegasus satellite
 >would fall to earth, they said.

Pegasus - why is that name so familiar? wasn't Pegasus the
Satellite that got the honors for the Gemini sighting(s) or,
again, the blame?

Anyway, my wife and I saw somthing very interesting the other
night and as soon as my life gets back to normal, I will tell
what we saw to the list.

GT McCoy







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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Joel Henry <jhenry@visi.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 10:54:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 13:01:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:50:42 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledgerdledger@ns.sympatico.ca
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hi Larry,

 >Sorry, I was away for 2 days. The blowby bugs me too. And like
 >you say anything strong enough to lock up the block has to act
 >on the rest of the car-at leat the metal parts. You would think
 >that audio tapes would be erased or badly damaged. What about
 >Paul Hill's forcefield motivation? What could a force field do.
 >What the hell is a force field anyway-other than say that of a
 >magnetic force field?


You guys obviously don't know how a car works. Lets start with
the basics:

1) fuel is supplied to carb/etc. by either an electric or
mechanical pump.

2) with fuel in cylinder and fuel and exhaust valves closed,
cylinder develops pressure as engine rotates pushing the piston
to the top.

3) At this time, a high current pulse is released into the
primary of the ignition coil, producing a high voltage pulse on
the secondary by the flyback effect. (30-60,000 volts or so).

4) the voltage is high enough to bridge the gap in the
distibutor and the spark plug causing the fuel to ignite and
forcing the piston down and forcing rotation of the engine.

Now, if the UFO comes around, it's intense magnetic field
saturates the ignition coil so no flyback effect and no spark -
the engine dies. When the UFO leaves, the huge magnetic field it
produced suddenly collapses, causing a massive flyback effect in
the ignition coil and probably able to arc thru all the
distributor contacts to all the cylinders and spark plugs. At
his point probably 2 cylinders are in the condition of having
some fuel in them, with valves closed so the massive spark will
set them off forcing a weaker than usual explosion in the
cylinder (due to low compression), but enough to turn over the
engine so (being in the "on" state) it will start up and
continue to run as the rest of the cylinders begin to function
normally.

This explains the re-starting effect. If the magnetic field is
great enough, it could burn out the electrical system (which has
been known to happen in some cases). No major rocket science
here.


Joel Henry

Minnesota MUFON Field Investigator

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Minnesota MUFON Field Investigator, Minnesota MUFON Journal Editor,
Minnesota MUFON Webmaster
Minnesota MUFON Web Page: http://www.visi.com/~jhenry/index.html








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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:51:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:26:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 02:17:09 +0100
 >From: James Easton <voyager@ukonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Regarding:

 >>Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:51:32 +0100
 >>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico

 >Jenny,

 >Some related questions which come to mind.

 >What about 'car stop' cases where:

 >1. There wasn't a 'UFO' involved, i.e., the car 'seized up' and
 >then started again for no apparent reason?


Hi,

I think that often the cause of the effect - the EM field - can
be invisible or dark against a night sky. It is only seen
(usually misperceived as a spaceship) when it glows as a
consequence of some form of induced ionization.  This is one
reason why only chasing UFO cases will not solve these reports -
as UFO cases are only part of the phenomenon.

 >If there are abundant examples - what are the normal
 >explanations?


Obviously, there are car stop cases in which the car stoppage is
mundane. I have investigated cases where mechanical faults,
driven excitement and pure coincidence tied to mundane stimulii
(from the full moon to a road sweeper!) have triggered alleged
close encounters. But the cases I regard as likely real are
remarkably consistent.  Far more consistent in fact than alien
abduction tales.

 >It might be insightful to take this question to some car
 >mechanics.

We have often worked with engineers on cases, wherever possible.
In fact thats one reason we've been able to eliminate some
cases.

 >2. There was a 'close proximity' UFO sighting and the car wasn't
 >affected.

 >This seems to be the norm - why the difference?

My guess is because the UFO was probably one of the myriad IFOs.
Car stops involving UFOs only occur in my vuew when the UFO is
some form of EM radiating energy field (usually mistaken for a
spaceship). These are fairly rare and so most alleged UFO
sightings don't involve them. As a star or a police helicopter or
the full moon isnt going to really effect a car (and most UFOs
are really this sort of thing) there are certain to be lots of
close proximity cases that have no effect on the vehicles.

 >3. There was a UFO related 'car stop' incident and the UFO was
 >later found to have a mundane explanation.


See above.


Best wishes,

Jenny Randles









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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:52:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:29:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 01:14:53 -0400
 >From: Rob Lockhart <Rob_Lockhart@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:34:42 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >Wouldn't the slowing of electrons also cause slowing of neurons
 >(or neuron pathways, albeit electro-chemical, if you're slowing
 >down time, everything in the vicinity must be slowed down)?
 >Thus, you may not even know what was happening around you except
 >that you may feel disoriented (assuming some part of you doesn't
 >slow down).

Hi,

In my research I have come upon many cases where electric clocks
and watches inside cars seem to slow down and be magnetised
afterwards (in one case a wind up watch worked okay but two
battery watches stopped and needed expensive repair work to
operate again).

The Oz Factor time suspension effect is very common in these
situations and occurs outside of UFO close encounters also.
That's one of the reasons I am not convinced we are dealing with
aliens controlling time but a naturally occurring time anomaly
during which witness perceptions are so distorted that they read
into the events an alien connotation. Its rather like a
culturally relevant interpretation placed upon a series of
events beyond their comprehension.

Another interesting feature that has cropped up in several of my
cases is a distortion on the voice - causing this to appear to
slow down - and indeed in two or three cases references to a
notable slowing down of all motion in the immediate environment.

Incidentally, the time & space anomalies are usually hand in
hand with gravity anomalies. And there are also quite a few
cases where the flow of light appears to temporarily stop.
Indeed there are very definite relativity physics inferences to
be found in some of these cases. The car stop effect and the Oz
Factor state of consciousness are the most obvious and
consistent features but they are possibly not the key to what is
really going on here. That may appear in the lesser known but
recurring aspects of these incidents.

For - however strange they seem - there must be a physical
explanation for them.

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles









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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:52:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:30:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >In a case I investigated in 1971 a young lady reported her car
 >as she drove along a rural road (actually a long driveway
 >to her house) when there was a light over the car.
 >It was a small sports car (Triumph, I think).

 >The radio had been on and it stopped playing. Also the
 >headlights went out. She rolled down the window and stuck her
 >head out to look up to se what was making the light from above.
 >She was startled to see a circular object not far above the car.

 >Frantically he turned the starter switch but nothing happened.
 >Then suddenly the object moved away and she was able to start the
 >car. The lights came on. The radio did not. The radio had to be
 >repaired before it would work.

 >I did not get to the case until long after the radio had been
 >repaired. The guy who fixed it said he simply changed
 >transistors one after the other until the radio worked again.
 >Unfortunately he did not keep track of which transistor had
 >blown out.

 >If he had we might have obtained som useful information on which
 >circuits in the radio were (apparently) overloaded with current.


Hi,

I had one similar case where the witness was a service engineer
and had a radio transceiver to contact base. This failed to work
afterwards and was taken apart by the base engineers in an
attempt to fix it. In the end it was cheaper to replace.

The engineer told us that an enormous power surge was picked up,
possibly by the aerial, and must have been similar in magnitude
to a lightning strike. It literally blew apart the diode
circuits inside the radio transceiver frying all the internal
circuits.

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles










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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca >
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:43:25 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:34:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 10:54:33 -0500
 >From: Joel Henry <jhenry@visi.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:50:42 -0300
 >>From: Donald Ledgerdledger@ns.sympatico.ca
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Now, if the UFO comes around, it's intense magnetic field
 >saturates the ignition coil so no flyback effect and no spark -
 >the engine dies. When the UFO leaves, the huge magnetic field it
 >produced suddenly collapses, causing a massive flyback effect in
 >the ignition coil and probably able to arc thru all the
 >distributor contacts to all the cylinders and spark plugs. At
 >this point probably 2 cylinders are in the condition of having
 >some fuel in them, with valves closed so the massive spark will
 >set them off forcing a weaker than usual explosion in the
 >cylinder (due to low compression), but enough to turn over the
 >engine so (being in the "on" state) it will start up and
 >continue to run as the rest of the cylinders begin to function
 >normally.

 >This explains the re-starting effect. If the magnetic field is
 >great enough, it could burn out the electrical system (which has
 >been known to happen in some cases). No major rocket science
 >here.


Hi Joel,

First of all, don't be insulting. Second-good point. I'd
forgotton about the fly-back. Geez, where would TV be without
it.

Residule fuel still in the cylinders makes sense. With the
ignition still on, the pulse from the coil as the
electromagnetic field is withdrawn, would most likely be enough
to trigger spark and detonation. Wonder if that theory could be
checked out using one of those giant electromagnets they use at
junkyards?

Don








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                            Re: STS-75 UFO Video

From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:56:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:36:51 -0400
Subject: Re: STS-75 UFO Video


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 04:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: STS-75 UFO Video
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:56:54 -0400
 >>From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
 >>Subject: STS-75 UFO Video
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Several things struck me while I watched the STS-75 video on the
 >>last TV UFO special ("Real Evidence" or some such) narrated by
 >>Johnathan Frakes.

<snip>

 >As a nearly perfect nobody, with no formal education in trick
 >photography, physics, swamp gas or swan poop, and not even a
 >smigeon of pigeon poop... what you wrote makes sense to me.

Cheeses Chim! That's twice this year I made sense and you were
there when it happened, both times! I heard new Ginko enriched
Gripple (Gripple-inko?) would improve my mental performance but
this is truly amazing!

R.G.

 >But wait, there's more. Not only do your opines appear to make
 >sense, they also make me very nearly ticked off at you for
 >stating them. I much prefer to have believed in the images as
 >being "them" and not dust motes or ice particles. It's so much
 >more exciting and romantic, in'it?

Sorry but your parade passed between me and the restroom and I
really had to go. But hey! I could be wrong. Right?

<snip>

 >Rick, you are either not a researcher or merely being sensible.
 >You cannot be both at the same time. Come on ... 'fess up.

Searcher perhaps but not researcher per se. 'sounds a little
redundant, rythmic even... more Gripple please.  :)

R.G.

BTW: the mazda's really just a rusty old '91 pickup but it'll
still do 130km./hr. with a good tailwind... still interested?
Didn't think so. :)









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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 17:14:39 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:39:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


Roger, list,

 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 07:57:19 -0500
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >I'm no physics engineer, but one of the problems with "time
 >arrest" as an answer to why the engine is perceived to have
 >stopped is this: If time has slowed down for electrons and
 >everything else but the subject, then how can the subject
 >still see? It strikes me that electrons and light waves travel
 >pretty much at the same speed. If the waves are slowed down by
 >time; that is to say the photon travel time, as well as the
 >electron travel time, has been "stretched" or actually stopped
 >in relationship to the viewer, the luminosity of the objects
 >being seen would go super dark or even black, wouldn't it?

Good questions. My first reaction when I read this theory was
the same. My only explanation is that the ignition system is
spacially closer to the UFO's field than your central nervous
system is. So the electrons slow down, the car stops, but the
slight difference in distance between your eye-brain system and
the starter allows you to observe all of this going on.

It's a complicated theory, and I regret to admit I'm not a
physicist either.



=====
Mac Tonnies
239 E. Sea
Independence, MO 65050
816-833-5910
macbot@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html









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                    Re: Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 17:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:41:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment?


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:03:04 +0100
 >From: Marc Bell <marc@wufog.freeserve.co.uk>
 >Subject: Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I remembering hearing in 1971 about experiments >carried out on
 >Apollo 14, which were conducted into a study of whether cosmic
 >rays that penetrate the optic nerves being responsible for the
 >'alledged' optical flashes astronauts had been experiencing.

<snip>

Interestingly, and probably unrelatedly, George Adamski reported
a very similar, if not identical, phenomenon after one of his
alleged saucer rides. This is often cited as evidence that
Adamski's claims weren't all baloney.



=====
Mac Tonnies
239 E. Sea
Independence, MO 65050
816-833-5910
macbot@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html










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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 17:24:15 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:43:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 01:14:53 -0400
 >From: Rob Lockhart <Rob_Lockhart@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Wouldn't the slowing of electrons also cause slowing >of
 >neurons (or neuron pathways, albeit electro-chemical, if
 >you're slowing down time, everything in the vicinity must be
 >slowed down)? Thus, you may not even know what was happening
 >around you except that you may feel disoriented (assuming some
 >part of you doesn't slow down).

<snip>

My guess is that time would indeed slow everything down
(relatively, of course!), not just electrical components. This
raises the possibility that we may pass in and out of macroscale
time warps more often than we care to think about: we'd never
know it unless we were really paying attention to the time.

Others, of course, would notice if you were being affected by a
time 'slow-down' - to them, it would look like you would be
moving very slowly, how slowly depending on the intensity of the
gravitational field.

The 'Davenport Effect' might very well be the cause for the
"missing time" we hear so much about.



=====
Mac Tonnies
239 E. Sea
Independence, MO 65050
816-833-5910
macbot@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html









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   May > May 3

                             'Hot Balls' Update

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:12:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 06:29:03 -0400
Subject: 'Hot Balls' Update


Thanks to researcher Todd Lemire for informing of this report

Metal Balls Fall on South Africa
May 2, 2000
The Associated Press

JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (AP) - For a while, it seemed as if
some strange meteorological phenomenon was hitting South Africa.

A metal ball fell from the sky Thursday onto a farm near
Worcester, 45 miles east of Cape Town, leaving an 8-inch dent in
the ground. On Friday, another ball a yard wide plummeted from
the sky onto a farm in Durbanville, just outside Cape Town.

"We heard the sound of crackling thunder, yet there were no
clouds," said Philip Schew, a tenant farmer near Worcester.

NASA scientists said the balls were garbage from a Delta rocket
launched in 1996. The balls had been expected to land somewhere
in southern Africa.

Nick Johnson, who is in charge of orbital debris for NASA, said
space garbage re-enters the Earth's atmosphere almost every day,
landing mostly in the ocean.

"Although no one had been hurt by these objects in the last 40
years, the U.S. government would compensate anyone who is struck
by the objects," Johnson was quoted as telling South Africa's
702 radio station.

End of article
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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                             'Roswell' TV series

From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:11:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 08:57:24 -0400
Subject: 'Roswell' TV series


Does anyone watch the Roswell series on TV? I found it ironic
that one of the advertising sponsors of last night's show was
the US Air Force.









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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:26:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:00:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 10:54:33 -0500
 >From: Joel Henry <jhenry@visi.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:50:42 -0300
 >>From: Donald Ledgerdledger@ns.sympatico.ca
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Hi Larry,

 >>Sorry, I was away for 2 days. The blowby bugs me too. And like
 >>you say anything strong enough to lock up the block has to act
 >>on the rest of the car-at leat the metal parts. You would think
 >>that audio tapes would be erased or badly damaged. What about
 >>Paul Hill's forcefield motivation? What could a force field do.
 >>What the hell is a force field anyway-other than say that of a
 >>magnetic force field?

 >You guys obviously don't know how a car works. Lets start with
 >the basics:

<basics snipped>

 >Now, if the UFO comes around, it's intense magnetic field
 >saturates the ignition coil so no flyback effect and no spark -
 >the engine dies. When the UFO leaves, the huge magnetic field it
 >produced suddenly collapses, causing a massive flyback effect in
 >the ignition coil and probably able to arc thru all the
 >distributor contacts to all the cylinders and spark plugs. At
 >his point probably 2 cylinders are in the condition of having
 >some fuel in them, with valves closed so the massive spark will
 >set them off forcing a weaker than usual explosion in the
 >cylinder (due to low compression), but enough to turn over the
 >engine so (being in the "on" state) it will start up and
 >continue to run as the rest of the cylinders begin to function
 >normally.

 >This explains the re-starting effect. If the magnetic field is
 >great enough, it could burn out the electrical system (which has
 >been known to happen in some cases). No major rocket science
 >here.

So... you're saying that in cases where the UFO leaves
s-l-o-w-l-y (no sudden field collapse thus no spark), the car
should never re-start?

As we know, the cylinders contain, not "fuel" - exactly - but
rather a finely dispersed mix of fuel and air which gives it
explosive properties. Left to itself, this mixture should, I
imagine, re-condense rather quickly and separate into liquid
fuel and plain old air, neither of which is explosive on its
own.

The mix only has to hold together for around .050 sec. or so in
a running engine. The stability of the explosive mixture would
put a time limit on how long the engine could be off and still
re-start. What's your guess on this time limit? A couple of
minutes?

Regards,

Bob
--

     INSTITUTE FOR UFO RESEARCH
==================================
Bob Thrift, Fort Collins, Colorado
     Editor, UFOCUS Newsletter
      Webmaster, IUR Web Site
    http://www.frii.com/~iufor/
      email: iufor@frii.com







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                      Major New Formation in Tennessee

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:29:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:14:36 -0400
Subject: Major New Formation in Tennessee



CPR-CANADA NEWS
The E-News Service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

May 2, 2000

_____________________________


MAJOR NEW CROP FORMATION IN TENNESSEE, USA


Thanks to Nancy Talbott of the BLT Research Team

http://www.bltresearch.net

for this important report. Further updates when available. The
first German formation of 2000 has also just been reported, on
May 1. Details pending, see the FGK web site:

http://www.fgk.org


Hi all... just got off phone with witness to huge crop circle
which occurred near Milan, Tennessee (about mid-way between
Memphis & Nashville). Very interesting story.

In a field of winter-wheat immediately across from her front
door, a very long (perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 mile long) pictogram
occurred on the Sunday night, April 23-24, probably about 3 am.

Witness's 10-year-old daughter and a "sleep-over" friend were
awakened at about 3 am by a "weird" humming noise; there were no
windows in the room they were sleeping in so it is not known
whether there was light phenomena associated. A family dog,
which had been sleeping on the mother's bed, also barked around
this time.

At about 7 am Monday morning, upon opening the front door to let
the dog out, the mother saw the huge crop formation in the field
opposite her front door. She and a step-son went into the field
briefly and noted somewhere around 10 circles and associated
pathways, at least one circle that was ringed, another circle
that had occurred around an electricity pole in the middle of
the field.

They did not explore the whole formation because there are many
snakes in this field, including copperheads and water mocasins
(both of which are poisonous) -- anybody thinking of visiting
this site be _sure_ to wear high boots.

After exiting the field both the mother and step-son noted
"pain" in their legs, up to the knees; both have also felt
"light-headed" and unusually fatigued all of this week since
being in the circle field.

The mother contacted a local crop-duster, who is apparently also
interested in crop circles, and he stated that there were other
crop circles "all over the place" in this area. In fact, the
mother states that there is another small circle in a field
immediately behind her mobile home which occurred the same night
as the larger one in front of her house.

No aerial photos have yet been taken, but I've alerted other
interested parties in the area who will try to get some,
particularly since the crop duster is apparently willing to take
people up to get shots.

It is also of interest to note that the phones did not work the
morning the crop circles were discovered and repairmen from the
phone company had to come out to work on the lines. Also, the
family's computer would not work that morning.

The mother also reports that some of the downed crop was already
yellow on the first day after the formation was found. Also, the
mother had noted about a week previously that there was dead cow
lying in a driveway about 1/2 mile from her home (which is in a
very rural area) -- and that there seemed to be very peculiar
cuts on this animal.

In addition, the mother reported a very peculiar incident that
had happened to her when she was 15 or 16 years old, living in
Selmer, TN with her mother, 2 sisters and a brother.

She related this story to me stating that it had "nothing to do
with the crop circle," but I am not so sure: on the night of
this incident she and her mother and sisters and brother were
all awakened in their home at about 2 am by a strange "beeping"
noise directly over their house; then, in sync with the beeping
sound, a beam of light came down through their ceiling, on and
off, for 10 to 15 minutes. The whole family was terrified and
afraid to go outside and look up.

The next morning she was found to have massive bruises all over
her legs which could not be accounted for. That same day a young
boy who lived nearby came to visit her & told her, without
knowing about the family's experience, that a relative of his
who had been out "spooning" that night nearby had seen a number
of "aliens" which had so frightened him that he'd driven the
whole way home with all 4 car-doors open and flying about.

I spoke with this woman at length and, perhaps if I hadn't also
spoken with hundreds of other people over the last 10 years who
have reported crop circles in their fields or near where they
lived, and heard the incredible stories so very many of them
tell, I might not be so inclined to believe her. But I have no
reason at all to doubt this particular lady. She is going to try
to contact the owner of the dead cow and find out more about
whatever that's all about; she's only lived in this area for
about a year and doesn't know too many people--and the people
she has told about the crop circle are, by and large, inclined
to think she's making it up or being silly. I sincerely don't
think so, although I don't know how to understand this series of
events... but overall what she told me tonight is in line with
what I've been hearing from farmers, ranchers and others.

Thought I should pass this stuff along, because it sounds to me
as if it's for real... and, thus, impacts all of us.

Nancy Talbott
BLT Research
http://www.bltresearch.net

_____________________________


See also the CPR-Canada web site for complete listings of news
stories, reports and related information and links:

http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the electronic news service of Circles
Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon
Research International), providing periodic updates with the
latest news and reports, as well as information on CPR-Canada
-related news and events. CPR-Canada News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by CPR-Canada, and is available free
by subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Circles Phenomenon Research International

Main Office

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC V6J 1J4 Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522

_____________________________


� Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 2000











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                            Re: STS-75 UFO Video

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:54:15 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:22:15 -0400
Subject: Re: STS-75 UFO Video


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:56:10 -0400
 >From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
 >Subject: Re: STS-75 UFO Video
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 04:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: STS-75 UFO Video
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:56:54 -0400
 >>>From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
 >>>Subject: STS-75 UFO Video
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Several things struck me while I watched the STS-75 video on the
 >>>last TV UFO special ("Real Evidence" or some such) narrated by
 >>>Johnathan Frakes.

 ><snip>

 >>As a nearly perfect nobody, with no formal education in trick
 >>photography, physics, swamp gas or swan poop, and not even a
 >>smigeon of pigeon poop... what you wrote makes sense to me.

 >Cheeses Chim! That's twice this year I made sense and you were
 >there when it happened, both times! I heard new Ginko enriched
 >Gripple (Gripple-inko?) would improve my mental performance but
 >this is truly amazing!

 >R.G.

 >>But wait, there's more. Not only do your opines appear to make
 >>sense, they also make me very nearly ticked off at you for
 >>stating them. I much prefer to have believed in the images as
 >>being "them" and not dust motes or ice particles. It's so much
 >>more exciting and romantic, in'it?

 >Sorry but your parade passed between me and the restroom and I
 >really had to go. But hey! I could be wrong. Right?

 ><snip>

 >>Rick, you are either not a researcher or merely being sensible.
 >>You cannot be both at the same time. Come on ... 'fess up.

 >Searcher perhaps but not researcher per se. 'sounds a little
 >redundant, rythmic even... more Gripple please. :)

 >R.G.

 >BTW: the mazda's really just a rusty old '91 pickup but it'll
 >still do 130km./hr. with a good tailwind... still interested?
 >Didn't think so. :)

Dear Rick, Errol and all,

Twice? Can't remember. One of the problems we here at the
Gripple Center for Mundane Matters has is memory. Since we try
each product out ourselves, we tend to forget a lot. Something
to do with electrons slowing down or brain cells getting all
gooey and stuff. But then, I am not a physics cyst.

If my good fiend Errol Bruce-Knapp would permit, I seek a dual
turbo in good condition, unlike me. They don't sell them here no
more. The Clintons banned it because it made kids smoke and go
postal. It seems that wherever this car is sold and driven,
people carry guns and shoot other people. It's terrible. But I
worked a deal with the President. That is after speaking with
her husband first. I told them I would put ignition locks on all
my Mazda dual turbos and they will allow me to own one. I just
can't drive it unless I am in my cups.

We solved all these problems by the simple expediency of
providing the president (Hillary) with Cohibas. If anyone out
there owns one (a dula turbo, not a Cohiba, they're illegal here
unless you are a willing intern) and is wishes to sell it, call
me. My contact info is on Jeff Rense's site. Just click on
"Advertise on the Radio with Jeff Rense."

I offered do the same for EBK, but he has so many advertisers
that he beats them off with sticks and stones. And his rates,
God help us, who but wealthy UFO/'Abduction Researchers can
afford them.

Jim Mortellaro







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                       Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:58:38 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:24:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 01:46:56 -0700
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

<snip>

 >All this color rectification has my head spinning a
 >bit. Perhaps we will have to wait until an actual human
 >lands on Mars. [ For heavens sake lets be sure he or
 >she isn't color-blind! ]

<snip>


Hi Larry, EBK and List,

Until we get a decent camera on the surface or we send someone
to have a look, JPL and HUBBLE will have there dialogue.

My money's on HUBBLE at the moment.

The strange spin off from this thread is the observation:

"JPL and Mars don't seem like each other".

Who said JPL doesn't "load" the data? That's the Problem, if
Larry and I wanted to get to Mars and have a look at "that sky"
- what system would we need to use to measure it -  Metric or
Imperial?

http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/99/12/07/timfgnusa01005.html?999

[REF: Mars Swallows Invaders - NASA Swallows Pride
  In A Most Dreadful Year 7-Dec-1999]


The way things are going at present, Larry and I would end up as
'surface body parts' if we hooked a ride on a Mars bound
traveller.

What's is the current total Mars Space craft 'Body Count' or
should I say "Collateral Damage"

Still interesting.

Thanks Larry


Regards to List


John W. Auchettl
Director PRA Research


Thanks to: Nigel Hawkes - Science Editor - The Times.
            Jeff Rense - Sightings.
            http://www.sightings.com/ufo5/marsdd.htm


Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE








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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:57:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:27:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:32:53 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Hello, all Bruce, Jenny.

 >>Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 17:51:32 +0100
 >>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>When someone in his or her car has an experience, the engine
 >>>invariably shuts down, lights go out, radios (transmit and/or
 >>>receivers) shut down. Invariably they come back on after the
 >>>event is over. I've read that the " ... engine suddenly starts
 >>>back up ..."

 >><snip>

 >>Yes. In fact I have certainly always asked witnesses if the car
 >>restarted on its own as it is crucial to understanding the
 >>physical energies involved. Clearly, IMO, these cases point
 >>towards a physically real phenomenon not imagination or fantasy
 >>at work. Thats why I have been so interested in them during
 >>recent years.

 >>In only a couple of the car stop cases I have studied have the
 >>witnesses insisted that they tried the starter and it failed
 >>several times, but after the UFO departed the engine and lights
 >>returned to life without any action being taken by the driver.
 >>Most often it starts on the first attempt to turn the engine
 >>over after the departure of the UFO. In other words - normally -
 >>but after a spell of inhibition.

Honestly, I hope you hold nothing against me, Jenny and Bruce,
but there is one word in Bruce's reply that brings back fond
memories of Brit Sportscars-Triumph.

 >In a case I investigated in 1971 a young lady reported her car
 >as she drove along a rural road (actually a long driveway
 >to her house) when there was a light over the car.
 >It was a small sports car (Triumph, I think).

 >The radio had been on and it stopped playing. Also the
 >headlights went out. She rolled down the window and stuck her
 >head out to look up to se what was making the light from above.
 >She was startled to see a circular object not far above the car.

Not doubting her story in the slightest, the extra Photons from
the light could have been the excerbating problem- for the
already overloaded electrical system (like running the headlghts
for more than, say an hour) of said Triumph it could have been
the last straw. Note: I didn't say electrons, that would have
fried the whole electircal system at that point.-Hmm, maybe it
did.

 >Frantically he turned the starter switch but nothing happened.
 >Then suddenly the object moved away and she was able to start the
 >car. The lights came on. The radio did not. The radio had to be
 >repaired before it would work.

Again, I do not doubt the story, but this is typical for Triumph
owners even without the close encounter- the fuse buss was
protected by the Radio (or in my own case the wiring harness)

 >I did not get to the case until long after the radio had been
 >repaired. The guy who fixed it said he simply changed
 >transistors one after the other until the radio worked again.
 >Unfortunately he did not keep track of which transistor had
 >blown out.

 >If he had we might have obtained som useful information on which
 >circuits in the radio were (apparently) overloaded with current.

 >(I am assuming that the transistor failure was because of high
 >current and not a result of a huge "dose" of ionizing radiation
 >since the witnesses reported no effects of a huge burst of such
 >radiation.)

High curret or mis-directed current (horn honks on right turn,
back up lights on when left turn signal initiated) this is life
when you have to deal with Mr. Lucas (Father of Darkness)

Now I must say  that I have enjoyed British Sportscars, I still
like to see the old TR-6, Spitfire, MGA-B et.al. (Oh, yeah
Morgans too) on the road along with may others. But, that
infuruating electrical system.

GT McCoy

Morris Garages Addict.









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                            Re: What's Up There?

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:04:09 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:29:02 -0400
Subject: Re: What's Up There?


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 09:37:34 -0400
 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
 >Subject: Re: What's Up There?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 03:12:42 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: What's Up There?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>While this may be a curiosity or merely something about which I
 >>am completely unfamiliar, I suggest looking at this picture
 >>taken by SOHO, of a solar ejection mass which took place on the
 >>30th of April. This time sequenced video shows a number of
 >>interesting images along with the solar ejection. Several
 >>meteors are visible steaking across the sky and what looks very
 >>much like a planet, although I know not which one, is also
 >>visible in the left center of the film. It is moving slowly
 >>towards the sun. All these objects are moving in straight
 >>lines, as they are supposed to be doing.

 >>However the most interesting object appears in the upper right
 >>quadrant and loops in towards the sun in an arc, then loops out
 >>into the lower right quadrant.

 >>Anyone have any ideas as to what it may be? Just curious I am.
 >>However I am not aware of any objects, even man made, that move
 >>quickly in an arc as this thing does.

 >>Hoping for a simple explanation on the one hand, and no
 >>explanation on the other. The latter being more interesting
 >>than the former, as everyone loves a mystery.

 >Most of the transient objects are comets. The large object is
 >Jupiter. Remember, the planets are coming into alignment on May
 >5th? End of the world, etc.

 >One really interesting object does not appear in the
 >spaceweather.com animation. For that one, go to:

 >http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/

 >and follow the links on the "torpedo", a large "projectile"
 >which seems to strike the sun right where a CME occurs.

 >Sky and Telescope magazine has an article on the planetary
 >alignment which implies that we might actually see some activity
 >result. Although, it would not be volcanoes and tidal waves;
 >but, a distortion of the body of the sun. Who knows what *that*
 >could do! See:

 >http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/special/whypanic.html

 >Don't worry -- be happy -- guzzle gripple!!

Dear EBK, Terry and Listers,

I suppose this is the story of my life, but I was not referring
to the massive object which impacts the sun at the very bottom
of the film.

I know I am not seeing things, and the object to which I refer
cannot possibly be a comet. The obejct approaches the sun from
about the 2 o'clock upper right quadrant and rapidly arcs AWAY
from the sun in what appears to be a parabolic arc. It swings
away from the sun at about the same angle it approached the sun,
andwinds up at about the 5 o'clock position heading away from
the sun.

For this particular object to be a comet, it would have to pass
on the other side of the sun, using the sun's gravity to swing
around passed the sun. But it passed _inside_ the sun, swinging
out again as if gravity were reversed.

Eh? Anyone look and see this or is it just a Gripple OD?

Jim









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   May > May 3

               Mystery light Has Grayville, Illinois, On Alert

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@home.com>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 05:12:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:32:47 -0400
Subject: Mystery light Has Grayville, Illinois, On Alert


Mystery light has Grayville on alert

By KEVIN KINNAIRD, Courier & Press staff writer (812) 464-7594 or
kkinn@evansville.net

GRAYVILLE, Ill. - Not since the mysterious crop circles - or the
time Bigfoot�s suspected tracks were discovered in Helm Bottoms
- has Grayville had to deal with such an unexplainable oddity.

Grayville now has its latest unusual news: Witnesses reportedly
spotted an unidentified flying object around 9 p.m. Tuesday in
the skies above the city - the second time in less than a week
for such a sighting.

Steve Hartsock, a newspaper reporter turned advertising manager
for The Navigator & Journal-Register in Albion, Ill., said he
heard a police officer dispatched to a home where two women said
they spotted a UFO while unloading furniture into a shed.

Ever the reporter, Hartsock said he grabbed a digital camera and
zoomed to the scene with hopes of catching a glimpse of the
suspected spacecraft.

"He's pretty good with a camera, and he took off in hot pursuit
toward the house," said Patrick Seil, editor and publisher of
the paper in Albion.

As he arrived on the scene, Hartsock said the two women were
standing in the front yard of the home with a police officer.

"They were watching this light which appeared to change from
blue to red to green, and disappear toward the western horizon,"
Hartsock said.

Neither the two women nor the officer could be reached for
comment Sunday.

Mount Vernon, Ind., resident Francis Ridge, an amateur astronomer
and authorized field investigator with the Center for UFO
Studies, said Sunday he was unaware of the incident.

Grayville Mayor Joe Bisch, who described the unusual events as
town "gossip", said the officer who spotted the alleged
spacecraft also saw a meteor blazing through the Southern
Illinois sky exactly a week earlier.

In the fall of 1996, unexplained crop circles were reported on a
farm northwest of Grayville.

Months later, in mid-April 1997, numerous Grayville residents
reported seeing strange crafts flying above their homes.

Those craft were later determined to be C-130 transport planes,
and as many as six helicopters from a U.S. Army training mission
based out of Fort Campbell, Ky.

As for the Bigfoot speculation in the 1970s, Hartsock said: "No
one actually believed it of course, but there was that rumor."

http://www.courierpress.com:80/cgi-bin/view.cgi?200005/01+light050100_news.html+
20000501




Todd Lemire
Michigan UFO CENTRAL
http://members.home.net/tlemire/UFOCENTRAL.html
--
"The reason why the flying-saucer mystery has been-to put it
mildly-so exasperating, lies in the fact that we are all blind
men, nor can we hope to meet a sighted traveler who can help us.
But perhaps it is the beginning of knowledge to recognize our
blindness."

Aime' Michel - "Flying Saucers and the Straight Line Mystery"








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                           Re: 'Hot Balls' Update

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 04:02:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:36:45 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Hot Balls' Update

 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:12:34 -0400
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: 'Hot Balls' Update
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Metal Balls Fall on South Africa
 >May 2, 2000
 >The Associated Press

<snip>

 >Nick Johnson, who is in charge of orbital debris for NASA, said
 >space garbage re-enters the Earth's atmosphere almost every day,
 >landing mostly in the ocean.

 >"Although no one had been hurt by these objects in the last 40
 >years, the U.S. government would compensate anyone who is struck
 >by the objects," Johnson was quoted as telling South Africa's
 >702 radio station.


How do you compensate somebody struck by a piece of space junk?
There might not be enough left of the victim to even identify
the remains.

Best

- Larry Hatch









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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Joel Henry <jhenry@visi.com>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:05:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:13:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:26:41 -0600
 >From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 10:54:33 -0500
 >>From: Joel Henry <jhenry@visi.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:50:42 -0300
 >>>From: Donald Ledgerdledger@ns.sympatico.ca
 >>>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Hi Larry,

 >>>Sorry, I was away for 2 days. The blow by bugs me too. And like
 >>>you say anything strong enough to lock up the block has to act
 >>>on the rest of the car-at late the metal parts. You would think
 >>>that audio tapes would be erased or badly damaged. What about
 >>>Paul Hill's forcefield motivation? What could a force field do.
 >>>What the hell is a force field anyway-other than say that of a
 >>>magnetic force field?

 >>You guys obviously don't know how a car works. Lets start with
 >>the basics:

 ><basics snipped>

 >>Now, if the UFO comes around, it's intense magnetic field
 >>saturates the ignition coil so no fly-back effect and no spark -
 >>the engine dies. When the UFO leaves, the huge magnetic field it
 >>produced suddenly collapses, causing a massive fly-back effect in
 >>the ignition coil and probably able to arc thru all the
 >>distributor contacts to all the cylinders and spark plugs. At
 >>his point probably 2 cylinders are in the condition of having
 >>some fuel in them, with valves closed so the massive spark will
 >>set them off forcing a weaker than usual explosion in the
 >>cylinder (due to low compression), but enough to turn over the
 >>engine so (being in the "on" state) it will start up and
 >>continue to run as the rest of the cylinders begin to function
 >>normally.

 >>This explains the re-starting effect. If the magnetic field is
 >>great enough, it could burn out the electrical system (which has
 >>been known to happen in some cases). No major rocket science
 >>here.

 >So... you're saying that in cases where the UFO leaves
 >s-l-o-w-l-y (no sudden field collapse thus no spark), the car
 >should never re-start?

It's not the leaving, but the turning off of the magnetic field
no longer needed to keep the car immobile that triggers the
reaction. I believe it is done on purpose, not just a byproduct
of UFO proximity, or all cars within a given distance of all
legit UFO's would die. This is simply not the case.

 >As we know, the cylinders contain, not "fuel" - exactly - but
 >rather a finely dispersed mix of fuel and air which gives it
 >explosive properties. Left to itself, this mixture should, I
 >imagine, re-condense rather quickly and separate into liquid
 >fuel and plain old air, neither of which is explosive on its
 >own.

Gasoline is highly volitile even with a minimum of air. You get
the most bang for your buck with fully dispersed fuel and a
compressed cylinder full of air mixed together (for efficiencies
and pollution's sake), but even the little left over in a
cylinder is still a powerfully explosive amount. We're not
talking pulling a car up an incline in gear here, only just
enough to rotate the crank enough for it to catch (as the
starter would). An engine in poor shape or of sufficiently
different design would not allow this, but most cases involve
older "simpler" cars that fit the bill. I don't recall any cases
where the car was still "in gear". With an automatic, the
decoupling of the transmission due to no rotation should be just
enough to allow a couple of crank rotations before it loads up
again. Most people with sticks put them in neutral as soon as
the engine dies so they can restart.

 >The mix only has to hold together for around .050 sec. or so in
 >a running engine. The stability of the explosive mixture would
 >put a time limit on how long the engine could be off and still
 >re-start. What's your guess on this time limit? A couple of
 >minutes?


Your theory works only from the standpoint of an engine
producing power to move, not just to rotate the crank enough to
re-start. I've owned many older cars with big engines and cabs
and I guarantee you when they are cold, there is no well mixed
fuel/air for at least 5 min. and it still runs. You are talking
maximum efficiency and power generation, which is not required
here. If your theory were true, all the old cars (model T, A,
etc.) would never have run at all.

Joel Henry
Minnesota MUFON FI

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Minnesota MUFON Field Investigator, Minnesota MUFON Journal Editor,
Minnesota MUFON Webmaster
Minnesota MUFON Web Page: http://www.visi.com/~jhenry/index.html








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                        I Think This A Meteor But...

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 08:00:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:16:22 -0400
Subject: I Think This A Meteor But...


Hello all,

I happened to be out on a nice, warmish night, (rare on the
Oregon Coast) night and a very bright light lit up my deck, as I
looked up I saw a moving light, brighter than Sirius by a good 2
mag. and it disappeared, west to east. I'd say had a good 3sec.
of seeing. All I can say that it was moving about like a
Meteor-but the thing left a rather nice vapor trail.

The trail was a nice, tight line and very white, my wife saw
this also, the time was 8:04 PDT, the sky was partly cloudy with
intermittent showers on 4/27/00 there were fairly high winds
aloft and the trail was affected by them, eventually breaking up
in a few (20 or so) seconds. What struck me was the intense
brightness for such a small object - it was nearly a
pinpoint-yet it was among the brightest of objects I have ever
observed.

Another curious item; no debris trail which is unusual for
somthing entering the atmosphere. Also even though the object
was low enough, i.e. producing a vapor trail, no sonic-boom, or
noise of any kind.

Anyway any thoughts on this would be appreciated, I will turn
this over to NUFROC also.

GT McCoy










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                            Re: What's Up There?

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:13:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:18:14 -0400
Subject: Re: What's Up There?


 >Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:04:09 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: What's Up There?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Dear EBK, Terry and Listers,

 >I suppose this is the story of my life, but I was not referring
 >to the massive object which impacts the sun at the very bottom
 >of the film.

 >I know I am not seeing things, and the object to which I refer
 >cannot possibly be a comet. The obejct approaches the sun from
 >about the 2 o'clock upper right quadrant and rapidly arcs AWAY
 >from the sun in what appears to be a parabolic arc. It swings
 >away from the sun at about the same angle it approached the sun,
 >andwinds up at about the 5 o'clock position heading away from
 >the sun.

 >For this particular object to be a comet, it would have to pass
 >on the other side of the sun, using the sun's gravity to swing
 >around passed the sun. But it passed _inside_ the sun, swinging
 >out again as if gravity were reversed.

 >Eh? Anyone look and see this or is it just a Gripple OD?

I certainly see it; but, can't explain the dynamics of its
motion from a single angle. And this isn't the first anomalous
object I have seen from SOHO. You can really have a great time
looking at all the debris flying around the sun at the
"official" SOHO site:

http://lasco-www.nrl.navy.mil/daily_mpg/

Until I started viewing these and other images from SOHO I had no
idea how much trash there is up there.

Incidently, in the latest images you can see Saturn, Jupiter and
Mercury approaching that fateful alignment. Just how close will
they come to exact alignment? Quoting from:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/special/may5_2000.html

"The long graph above shows our results throughout the last four
centuries, and the inset is a magnified view of the years
1999�2000. Notice that the planetary alignment of May 2000 is
quite apparent and produces the greatest tidal stress on the Sun
during the two-year period. But we find that the peak actually
occurs not on May 5th but on May 9th, when both Mercury and
Venus have moved closer to superior conjunction with the Sun. By
the time the five naked-eye planets (not counting the Moon)
attain their own minimum spread of 19.5 degrees on May 17th, the
tidal stress is already subsiding."

Hmmmm, 19.5 degrees... now where have I seen that number before?

Terry









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                       Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:27:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:22:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:58:38 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Does Mars Have A Blue Sky?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >What's is the current total Mars Space craft 'Body Count' or
 >should I say "Collateral Damage"

We have a worse batting average than most pitchers.  See:

http://www.mufor.org/spacecraft.html

Terry









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                        My Dream For Richard Hoagland

From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:34:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:26:51 -0400
Subject: My Dream For Richard Hoagland



After hearing Hoagland going on & on again on Mike Siegel
last night, all I can think is:

Wouldn't it be _great_ if NASA would spend a bit of money
to create the guy his own little Mars capsule so that he
could go visit "Cydonia" up close & in person?

   "I'm seeing a pattern here ... yes, it's a 68 degree angle on
   this rock... 68 degree angles can't _possibly_ occur
   naturally... See! What have I been telling you? Here is
   irrefutable evidence that there was _intelligent_ _life_ on
   Mars!"

I'd add the snide remark to make the trip one way, but I suspect
ol' Richard wouldn't even wanna get come back home.

(after all, he'd _be_ home -- "We _are_ the Martians.")

I dunno... I'd chip in to ship the guy off.











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                      Re: I Think This A Meteor But...

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 21:04:58 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:09:45 -0400
Subject: Re: I Think This A Meteor But...


 >Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 08:00:45 -0700
 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Subject: I Think This A Meteor But...
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hello all,

 >I happened to be out on a nice, warmish night, (rare on the
 >Oregon Coast) night and a very bright light lit up my deck, as I
 >looked up I saw a moving light, brighter than Sirius by a good 2
 >mag. and it disappeared, west to east. I'd say had a good 3sec.
 >of seeing. All I can say that it was moving about like a
 >Meteor-but the thing left a rather nice vapor trail.

 >The trail was a nice, tight line and very white, my wife saw
 >this also, the time was 8:04 PDT, the sky was partly cloudy with
 >intermittent showers on 4/27/00 there were fairly high winds
 >aloft and the trail was affected by them, eventually breaking up
 >in a few (20 or so) seconds. What struck me was the intense
 >brightness for such a small object - it was nearly a
 >pinpoint-yet it was among the brightest of objects I have ever
 >observed.

HI GT,

Sounds like an evil plot, by the evil government, using a
classified air breathing vehicle, to dispense an evil chem
trail. :)

In reality it does sound like a meteor, but it probably wouldn't
hurt to pass it on to Peter Davenport.


Cheers,
Robert








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                           Re: 'Roswell' TV series

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 22:28:58 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:06:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Roswell' TV series



 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:11:37 -0700
 >From: Perry Mick <perrym@teleport.com>
 >Subject: 'Roswell' TV series
 >To: UFO Updates <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Does anyone watch the Roswell series on TV? I found it ironic
 >that one of the advertising sponsors of last night's show was
 >the US Air Force.

Hi,

Yes, I love the show.

Its screened in the UK as 'Roswell High' (not sure why the title
has been changed) (it makes for an awkward jarring when they
start each episode with 'Previously...' and do a very rough edit
by hacking out the words '...on Roswell')

UK episodes run about six weeks behind the US.

I started watching after the producers called last summer and
asked permission to use 'The complete book of UFOs' in one shot.
I expected to pan the show but got hooked.

Sky (Fox, in the US) make a big thing of it here as a mainstay
of Thursday nights - although I do hear whispers it is in danger
of being axed in the US.

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles







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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:45:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:06:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:52:18 +0100
 >From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>In a case I investigated in 1971 a young lady reported her car
 >>as she drove along a rural road (actually a long driveway
 >>to her house) when there was a light over the car.
 >>It was a small sports car (Triumph, I think).

<snip>

 >>I did not get to the case until long after the radio had been
 >>repaired. The guy who fixed it said he simply changed
 >>transistors one after the other until the radio worked again.
 >>Unfortunately he did not keep track of which transistor had
 >>blown out.

 >>If he had we might have obtained som useful information on which
 >>circuits in the radio were (apparently) overloaded with current.

 >I had one similar case where the witness was a service engineer
 >and had a radio transceiver to contact base. This failed to work
 >afterwards and was taken apart by the base engineers in an
 >attempt to fix it. In the end it was cheaper to replace. >

 >The engineer told us that an enormous power surge was picked up,
 >possibly by the aerial, and must have been similar in magnitude
 >to a lightning strike. It literally blew apart the diode
 >circuits inside the radio transceiver frying all the internal
 >circuits.

I suspect something like that, but at a much lower level,
destroyed one of the transistors in th girl's car radio.








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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 00:40:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:07:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:45:33 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:52:18 +0100
 >>From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>In a case I investigated in 1971 a young lady reported her car
 >>>as she drove along a rural road (actually a long driveway
 >>>to her house) when there was a light over the car.
 >>>It was a small sports car (Triumph, I think).

 ><snip>

 >>>I did not get to the case until long after the radio had been
 >>>repaired. The guy who fixed it said he simply changed
 >>>transistors one after the other until the radio worked again.
 >>>Unfortunately he did not keep track of which transistor had
 >>>blown out.

 >>>If he had we might have obtained som useful information on which
 >>>circuits in the radio were (apparently) overloaded with current.

 >>I had one similar case where the witness was a service engineer
 >>and had a radio transceiver to contact base. This failed to work
 >>afterwards and was taken apart by the base engineers in an
 >>attempt to fix it. In the end it was cheaper to replace. >

 >>The engineer told us that an enormous power surge was picked up,
 >>possibly by the aerial, and must have been similar in magnitude
 >>to a lightning strike. It literally blew apart the diode
 >>circuits inside the radio transceiver frying all the internal
 >>circuits.

 >I suspect something like that, but at a much lower level,
 >destroyed one of the transistors in th girl's car radio.

Hello all:

It doesn't take much juice to blow away a transistor.

Sounds like late 60s or early 70s vintage, when people still
replaced them in radios! Those were even more fragile in terms
of over-voltage or current.

If the innards were literally 'blown-apart' or 'fried', now that
takes a fair amount of energy!

Best

- Larry Hatch








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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:40:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:12:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:26:41 -0600
 >From: Bob Thrift - Institute for UFO Research <iufor@frii.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >So... you're saying that in cases where the UFO leaves
 >s-l-o-w-l-y (no sudden field collapse thus no spark), the car
 >should never re-start?

 >As we know, the cylinders contain, not "fuel" - exactly - but
 >rather a finely dispersed mix of fuel and air which gives it
 >explosive properties. Left to itself, this mixture should, I
 >imagine, re-condense rather quickly and separate into liquid
 >fuel and plain old air, neither of which is explosive on its
 >own.

 >The mix only has to hold together for around .050 sec. or so in
 >a running engine. The stability of the explosive mixture would
 >put a time limit on how long the engine could be off and still
 >re-start. What's your guess on this time limit? A couple of
 >minutes?


All,

I've dipped in and out of this thread so apologies if this has
already been addressed.

Have any researchers who have encountered a number of these
cases noted whether the same range of effects are found in
both petrol _and_ diesel-powered vehicles?, as diesil engines
don't have an ignition system. They also have a far higher
compression ratio and would need a heck more "ooomph" to get
them re-started.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Neil


--
*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *
Neil Morris.       /101101101 Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc 10110101010\
Dept of Physics.   1                                                 1
Univ of Manchester 0                                                 0
Schuster Labs.     1  Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES  1
Brunswick St.      0                                                 0
Manchester.        1                                                 1
UK.                \0101010110010110110010110101101011011110101011010/
G8KOQ


              E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk

Roswell and Alien Autopsy Archive->  http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/
Dave Willetts Home Page->    http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/dave_willetts/
Mike Sterling Home Page->    http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/mike-s/
Tim Morgan Home Page   ->    http://adm2.ph.man.ac.uk/tim-m/

*        *         *         *         *         *         *         *









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                            Re: STS-75 UFO Video

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:46:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 15:59:38 -0400
Subject: Re: STS-75 UFO Video


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 00:56:54 -0400
 >From: Rick Goldsmith <rgoldsm@synapse.net>
 >>Subject: STS-75 UFO Video
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Referring to the Best UFO Videos 2 Show last Thursday
Rick wrote:

<snip>

 >There was one highlight to the show. Bruce Maccabbee's hair is
 >once more grown past his ears and fast approaching his
 >shoulders, just like a respectable haircut should. 'had me
 >worried :)

I was't planning to comment on what he wrote, but now I must in
order to justify my long hair!

 >Several things struck me while I watched the STS-75 video on the
 >last TV UFO special ("Real Evidence" or some such) narrated by
 >Johnathan Frakes.

 >The objects floating about did not really appear to react to or
 >interact in any way with the tether even though the voice-over
 >would lead one to believe the contrary. I had the impression of
 >>small particles floating about in the foreground with the tether
 >far behind. The foreground objects are actually too small to see
 >but are reflecting light and completely out of focus, as I would
 >suspect the tether was the object of interest. Think of dust
 >motes you see floating in the air when bright sunlight shines
 >through a crack in a curtain... and squint.

I agree.

 >The fact that the largest object appears to pass behind the
 >tether is just a trick of the light. The tether is glowing
 >brightly, as the fuzzy smear of light from the foreground speck
 >passes in front, it is obscured by the brighter object in the
 >background only to reappear on the other side after passing
 >through that crucial line of sight between the camera and the
 >tether. I have observed similiar effects with my quickcam.
 >Somewhat mediocre analogy: If you hold a match up to an intense
 >light you don't see the flame so much as the bright light behind
 >it. The foreground object can actually appear to pass behind the
 >background object. Believe it or not!

I agree.

 >Finally, the pulsing or strobing observed in the large
 >foreground smear may be due to a flashing indicator light on the
 >camera ( batt. low ? ) face or a similiar device on the shuttle
 >console.

More likely a tiny particle with variable reflectivity that was
rotating in th sunlight.

For a similar situation of images of tiny reflective particles
that appear in flash photos go to:

http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/cornetbr1/orb_critic.htm










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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:40:28 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 16:08:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:40:49 +0100
 >From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Have any researchers who have encountered a number of these
 >cases noted whether the same range of effects are found in
 >both petrol _and_ diesel-powered vehicles?, as diesil engines
 >don't have an ignition system. They also have a far higher
 >compression ratio and would need a heck more "ooomph" to get
 >them re-started.


I recall a case in England where a diesil truck driver stopped
on a motorway where a small bright spherical UFO was hovering.
A car going the other way stopped too.

As I recall, the car's engine died but the diesil's did not.
The bright UFO crossed the road between the truck and car,
melted the road asphalt, and went on its way.

Road repair crews quickly went out to repair the road and
totally obliterate any evidence in the asphalt. Hmmm ...

No doubt Larry Hatch can take this sketchy info and dig up the
precise incident.(Go for it Larry  :-)

Pardon any slight inaccuracies - my neurons don't subscribe to
the philosophy of photographic memory.

-Brian C.








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   May > May 5

                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 14:29:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 03:40:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:40:28 -0500 (CDT)
 >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:40:49 +0100
 >>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Have any researchers who have encountered a number of these
 >>cases noted whether the same range of effects are found in
 >>both petrol _and_ diesel-powered vehicles?, as diesil engines
 >>don't have an ignition system. They also have a far higher
 >>compression ratio and would need a heck more "ooomph" to get
 >>them re-started.

 >I recall a case in England where a diesil truck driver stopped
 >on a motorway where a small bright spherical UFO was hovering.
 >A car going the other way stopped too.

 >As I recall, the car's engine died but the diesil's did not.
 >The bright UFO crossed the road between the truck and car,
 >melted the road asphalt, and went on its way.

 >Road repair crews quickly went out to repair the road and
 >totally obliterate any evidence in the asphalt. Hmmm ...

 >No doubt Larry Hatch can take this sketchy info and dig up the
 >precise incident.(Go for it Larry :-)

 >Pardon any slight inaccuracies - my neurons don't subscribe to
 >the philosophy of photographic memory.


Hello Brian and Neil:

1) There have been cases where diesel engines stopped, but these
are rare at best. More often where both are present, the
gasoline engine stops, the diesel keeps idling.

2) Brian is referring to the 06NOV67 case on a section of the
A338 highway ( now B3347 ) between Avon and Sopley, Hampshire,
England. The diesel truck had its lights fail, so he pulled over
( voluntarily ) to a stop. It was around 0230 hrs and dark. The
lorry driver saw a 15-foot ovoid move slowly across the road. It
made a hum like a refrigerator, and gave off a smell like a
drill boring thru wood!

Then it sped up and away. Before the ovoid departed, a Jaguar
car came from the opposite direction as the truck. Its lights
failed also, and its engine stopped, unlike the truck.

There were marks on the road and the roadside. A police report
was made, and an MOD man interviewed both witnesses.

The next day, people were seen examining the site with
instruments. A bulldozer was leveling the ground. Another man
was repainting a telephone booth there.

The following week, the lorry driver noted that the same entire
200 foot section of the road had been repaved.

Sources: APRO Bulletin, Nov.1967. MUFON Journal #235. Tim Good:
Above Top Secret, pg.64

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

- - - - - - - - - -







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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Jenny Randles <nufon@currantbun.com>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 22:40:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 04:04:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:40:28 -0500 (CDT)
 >From: Brian Cuthbertson <brianc@fc.net>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:40:49 +0100
 >>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Have any researchers who have encountered a number of these
 >>cases noted whether the same range of effects are found in
 >>both petrol _and_ diesel-powered vehicles?, as diesil engines
 >>don't have an ignition system. They also have a far higher
 >>compression ratio and would need a heck more "ooomph" to get
 >>them re-started.

 >I recall a case in England where a diesil truck driver stopped
 >on a motorway where a small bright spherical UFO was hovering.
 >A car going the other way stopped too.

 >As I recall, the car's engine died but the diesil's did not.
 >The bright UFO crossed the road between the truck and car,
 >melted the road asphalt, and went on its way.

 >Road repair crews quickly went out to repair the road and
 >totally obliterate any evidence in the asphalt. Hmmm ...


Hi,

I did post a message to this debate the other day about the
difference in cases where diesel powered vehicles are involved.

I am sure it is in the UpDates archives.

The sighting refered to in the above message is a bit different
from the summary given (it was certainly not on a motorway and
the press accounts were not accurate). It occurred on 5 November
l967 and has been widely regarded as a leading UK close
encounter.

However....

UFOIN (remember us?) have been re-investigating this case in
great detail with significant developments and much new data.
Indeed we had a meeting to debate all the findings in Manchester
(ironically - as its where Neil Morris works) only last month.

We would certainly be grateful for Neil's input if he is willing
to help this study.

UFOIN will say more on this when we have finalised this complex
research which Paul Fuller and Andy Roberts, in particular, are
pulling together right now.

But I would suggest that you not form too many conclusions on
anything you have read before about this famous case.

Best wishes,

Jenny Randles







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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@temporaldoorway.com>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 18:40:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 04:06:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:40:49 +0100
 >From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Have any researchers who have encountered a number of these
 >cases noted whether the same range of effects are found in
 >both petrol _and_ diesel-powered vehicles?, as diesil engines
 >don't have an ignition system. They also have a far higher
 >compression ratio and would need a heck more "ooomph" to get
 >them re-started.

Hi, Neil!

Diesel engines typically are not halted in vehicle interference
cases. In one case a car and a truck were near a UFO, and the
car was halted and the truck kept running.

------
Mark Cashman, creator of The Temporal Doorway at
http://www.temporaldoorway.com
- Original digital art, writing, music and UFO research -

UFO cases, analysis, classification systems, and more...
http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/index.htm
------






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             Vatican Theologian Agrees With Sitchin's Findings?

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 21:53:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 04:21:25 -0400
Subject: Vatican Theologian Agrees With Sitchin's Findings?


To: M-TRAC - MSAA List <cydonia@egroups.com
From: Brian Zinkle <bzinkle@mwt.net
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 03:53:33 -0500
Subject: [cydonia] Vatican Theologian Agrees With Sitchin's
          Findings?

----------
From: Roger <roger67@mindspring.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 2:23 PM
To: UFOLIST
Subject: NUFOIA: Vatican Theologian Agrees With Sitchin's
          Findings?

-----
From: Hilary A. Thomas <standingrock@pagosa.net
To: InTheShadows <InTheShadows@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 10:16 AM
Subject: [InTheShadows] Vatican Theologian Agrees With Sitchin's
          Findings?

===========RUMOR MILL NEWS AGENCY===========
May 3, 2000

Sitchin And Vatican Theologian Discuss UFOs, Extraterrestrials,
Angels, Creation Of Man

Report by Zecharia Sitchin

http://www.sitchin.com

Dialogue in Bellaria


In what must be a historic first, a high official of the Vatican
and a Hebrew scholar discussed the issue of Extraterrestrials
and the Creation of Man, and though different from each other in
upbringing, background, religion and methodology, nevertheless
arrived at common conclusions:

* Yes, Extraterrestrials can and do exist on other planets
* Yes, they can be more advanced than us
* Yes, materially, Man could have been fashioned from a
   pre-existing sentient being.



The Participants

The high Vatican official was Monsignor Corrado Balducci, a
Catholic theologian with impressive credentials: A member of the
Curia of the Roman Catholic Church, a Prelate of the
Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples and the
Propagation of the Faith, leading exorcist of the Archdiocese of
Rome, a member of the Vatican's Beatification Committee, an
expert on Demonology and the author of several books. Appointed
in the Vatican to deal with the issue of UFOs and
Extraterrestrials, he has made in recent years pronouncements
indicating a tolerance of the subjects; but he has never before
met and had a dialogue with a Hebrew scholar, and gone beyond
prescribed formulations to include the touchy issue of the
Creation of Man.

The Hebrew scholar was me -- Zecharia Sitchin: A researcher of
ancient civilizations, a biblical archaeologist, a descendant of
Abraham.

The Monsignor and I almost met for such a dialogue last
December, but it did not come about. This time we were scheduled
to meet in Bellaria, Italy, at a conference whose theme was "The
Mystery of Human Existence." I arrived there with my wife and a
score of fans from the USA, on March 31st, scheduled to address
the audience of over a thousand the next day. The Monsignor was
nowhere in sight; but he was there the next morning to hear my
presentation. "I drove the whole night from Rome to hear you,"
he said.

Sitchin's Presentation

My talk, ably translated by my Italian editor Tuvia Fogel,
included a slide presentation that added a pictorial dimension
to the evidence from ancient times in support of Sumerian texts,
on which my eight books based the following conclusions:

We are not alone -- not just in the vast universe, but in our
own solar system; There is one more planet in our solar system,
orbiting beyond Pluto but nearing Earth periodically; Advanced
"Extraterrestrials" -- the Sumerians called them Anunnaki, the
Bible Nefilim -- started to visit our planet some 450,000 years
ago; And, some 300,000 years ago, they engaged in genetic
engineering to upgrade Earth's hominids and fashion Homo
sapiens, the Adam. In that, they acted as Emissaries for the
Universal Creator -- God.

The Dialogue

"We have much to talk about," Msgr. Balducci said to me as he
came forward to congratulate me on my presentation; "I have
great esteem for your scholarship," he said.

We returned to the hotel for lunch. Our table was surrounded in
a semi-circle by my American fans, intent on not missing a word
of the forthcoming dialogue. In the hours-long session, Msgr.
Balducci outlined the positions he was going to state, from a
prepared text, in his talk the next day. While my approach was
based on physical evidence, his was a purely Roman Catholic
theological-philosophical one, seeking the spiritual aspects.
Yet, our conclusions converged.


Msgr. Balducci's Positions

ON UFOs. "There must be something in it." The hundreds and
thousands of eyewitness reports leave no room for denying that
there is a measure of truth in them, even allowing for optical
illusions, atmospheric phenomena and so on. As a Catholic
theologian such witnessing cannot be dismissed. "Witnessing is
one way of transmitting truth, and in the case of the Christian
religion, we are talking about a Divine Revelation in which
witnessing is crucial to the credibility of our faith."

ON LIFE ON OTHER PLANETS: "That life may exist on other planets
is certainly possible... The Bible does not rule out that
possibility. On the basis of scripture and on the basis of our
knowledge of God's omnipotence, His wisdom being limitless, we
must affirm that life on other planets is possible." Moreover,
this is not only possible, but also credible and even probable.
'"Cardinal Nicolo Cusano (1401-1464) wrote that there is not a
single star in the sky about which we can rule out the existence
of life, even if different from ours."

ON INTELLIGENT EXTRATERRESTRIALS: "When I talk about
Extraterrestrials, we must think of beings who are like us --
more probably, beings more advanced than us, in that their
nature is an association of a material part and a spiritual
part, a body and a soul, although in different proportions than
human beings on Earth." Angels are beings who are purely
spiritual, devoid of bodies, while we are made up of spirit and
matter but still at a low level. "It is entirely credible that
in the enormous distance between Angels and humans, there could
be found some middle stage, that is beings with a body like ours
but more elevated spiritually. If such intelligent beings really
exist on other planets, only science will be able to prove; but
in spite of what some people think, we would be in a position to
reconcile their existence with the Redemption that Christ has
brought us."


The Anunnaki and the Creation of Man

Well then, I asked Msgr. Balducci, does it mean that my
presentation was no great revelation to you? We appear to agree,
I said, that more advanced extraterrestrials can exist, and I
use science to evidence their coming to Earth ...I then quote
the Sumerian texts that say that the Anunnaki ("Those who from
heaven to Earth came") genetically improved an existing being on
Earth to create the being that the Bible calls Adam.

My conclusion regarding your presentation, Msgr. Balducci
answered, is that more than anything else your whole approach is
based on physical evidence, it concerns itself with matter, not
with spirit. This is an important distinction, "because if this
distinction is made, I can bring up the view of the great
theologian,Professor Father Marakoff, who is still alive and is
greatly respected by the Church. He formulated the hypothesis
that when God created Man and put the soul into him, perhaps
what is meant is not that Man was created from mud or lime, but
from something pre-existing, even from a sentient being capable
of feeling and perception. So the idea of taking a pre-man or
hominid and creating someone who is aware of himself is
something that Christianity is coming around to.The key is the
distinction between the material body and the soul granted by
God."

 From Anunnaki to God

Yes, I responded to the Vatican theologian, in my writings I
deal with the physical evidence; but already in my first book
(The 12th Planet), the very last sentence of the last paragraph
raises the question: If the Extraterrestrials "created" us, who
created them on their planet?


 From this my own thinking and the contents of my subsequent
books evolved toward the spiritual or "divine" aspects. The
Anunnaki, I have explained, were just emissaries (and that is
what the Hebrew word Malachim, translated Angels, means). They
thought that it was their decision to come here for selfish
reasons and to fashion us because they needed workers; but in
truth they only carried out the Almighty God's wishes and plans.

If such Extraterrestrials were so involved, Msgr. Balducci said,
even by your own interpretation they had to do with Man's
physics, body and rationality: but God alone had to do with the
Soul!

My second book, that deals with Man's aspiration to ascend the
heavens, is titled The Stairway to Heaven, I told Msgr,
Balducci, "it seems to me that we are ascending the same
stairway to heaven, though from different steps," I said.

We ended the dialogue as friends, determined to stay in touch and
continue.

Zecharia Sitchin can be reached by writing to:
P.O. Box 577, New York, NY 10185




Zecharia's books are available in paperback from
Avon Books. Some reprints in hardcover are
available from Bear & Co.








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                      Re: My Dream For Richard Hoagland

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 23:45:42 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 04:26:59 -0400
Subject: Re: My Dream For Richard Hoagland


 >Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:34:34 -0400
 >From: Ron Cecchini <Ron.Cecchini@GD-CS.COM>
 >Subject: My Dream For Richard Hoagland
 >To: 'UFO Updates' <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >After hearing Hoagland going on & on again on Mike Siegel
 >last night, all I can think is:

 >Wouldn't it be _great_ if NASA would spend a bit of money
 >to create the guy his own little Mars capsule so that he
 >could go visit "Cydonia" up close & in person?

If he got back we would suffer with how NASA (part of the giant
evil conspiracy to hide life on Mars) in fact sent him to a
planet on the other side of the universe that looked like Mars
but wasn't because the face/pyramid didn't match absolutely with
his theories and notions, so there for it wasn't Mars.

Actually I am still waiting for his apology for spreading dung
from his so called top-drawer, never wrong, never told a lie in
their life, intelligence community/government sources who
were unloading the tale about how the ET's were going to land
on the mountain top in Arizona last December. Nothing happened
and he rationalized it away as being an under ground event.
When nothing came of that, he moved on to the next latest/greatest
theory/alignment/mars photo conspiracy.

Of course we won't talk about Hoagland's government informants
who were claiming that the Mars rover was not going to land on
July 4th but on July 21st or some such dung. In fact it landed
as scheduled on the 4th.

Gee, when I start talking about Hoaglands
theorys/information/sources the word dung keeps coming up....

Hmm I wonder if their is a pattern here, and how the pattern aligns
with the pyramids in Egypt.....

 >"I'm seeing a pattern here ... yes, it's a 68 degree angle on
 >this rock... 68 degree angles can't _possibly_ occur
 >naturally... See! What have I been telling you? Here is
 >irrefutable evidence that there was _intelligent_ _life_ on
 >Mars!"

People that look for patterns in everything could find patterns
in everything from cow dung to how an iceburg floats in the
ocean. How about a little pattern fiction theory for a moment to
illustrate. Lets see, the Rock that hit the wind shield came in
at a 45 degree angle and the glass cracked in every
angle/direction except for 88 degrees, and this happened when
such and such a constellation was in a 78 degree angles, so this
is living proof the rock was under intelligent control.

 >I'd add the snide remark to make the trip one way, but I suspect
 >ol' Richard wouldn't even wanna get come back home.

 >(after all, he'd _be_ home -- "We _are_ the Martians.")

 >I dunno... I'd chip in to ship the guy off.

You could look at him as having great entertainment value.
Besides he always seems to have a new angle on everything.:)

Cheers,

Robert










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                    Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 22:42:03 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 May 2000 04:32:01 -0400
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


Prediction for May 7 Imaging Opportunity

by Mac Tonnies,
The Cydonian Imperative

The Mars Global Surveyor will be in a position to re-photograph
the Face on Mars from directly above on May 7. A vigorous online
petition demanding MSSS to reimage this perplexing formation,
coupled with MSSS' recent release of two years worth of
'missing' Cydonia photographs, indicates a level of interest in
the Face Malin has been remiss in divulging to the public. Thus
there's a significant chance that the image will be taken and
publically released.


But what will it tell us?

The new image (if taken and released, as hoped) will not likely
'prove' either side of the Cydonia debate. The ever-vigilant
Mark Carlotto has simulated what the Face will look like to the
MGS: much like last time, unfortunately, with the sun shining
from below and giving the feature the 'Halloween-effect' that so
disconcerted Cydonia researches in 1998. However, the deceiving
camera angle (that JPL exploited in their tragically warped
"orthorectification" of the 1998 Face image) does not appear to
be a factor.

Being a frontal shot, we can expect the Face to reveal its
mysteries by itself, without the bungled computer 'enhancement'
that killed mainstream media interest in the Face two years ago.
Hopefully we can ascertain a great deal more of the Face's
bisymmetry; the right half has always been the most difficult to
make out, both on the existing MGS image as well as both Viking
photos. In the latter cases, this was due to the steepness of
the sun-angle. Sun-angle will still play a significant role, but
the MGS's hugely better resolution should be able to compensate
for much of this. This does not mean that the May 7 photo
opportunity represents ideal conditions for a proper scientific
assessment of the Face. But it should provide more useful data
than the 1998 image (assuming clear Martian skies).


The media:

If the image is indeed taken and disseminated online, NASA will
make sure the image is handled as condescendingly as possible
with the mainstream press. As the 1998 press debacle
demonstrated, this is easy to do when the facial features in
question are thrown into unfamiliar lighting conditions. I
predict NASA/MSSS will exploit the new picture's general
similarity to the 1998 image as "proof" that the Face is in
truth not a face. Most journalists have been conditioned to
accept whatever NASA says at "face" value, and I sincerely doubt
if any of them are aware of the topological and morphological
analyses (i.e. Carlotto, Kynthia) that confirm the Face's
anthropomorphism. So don't expect a major change of public
attitude when some nameless JPL 'expert' laughingly dismisses
the new Face photo to the Associated Press.

[an illustrated version of this article can be found at the
Cydonian Imperative website:

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/imperative.html]


=====
Mac Tonnies
239 E. Sea
Independence, MO 65050
816-833-5910
macbot@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html

__________________________________________________
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Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
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   May > May 6

                    Nick Pope's Weird World (April issue)

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 02:29:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 08:57:04 -0400
Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World (April issue)


Nick Pope's Weird World (APRIL ISSUE)
www.hotgossip.co.uk

Welcome to April's column, bringing you the latest news, the
most current views and the hottest gossip from the world of UFOs
and the paranormal.


Believers And Sceptics

Just because I support the idea that some UFOs are
extraterrestrial doesn't make this a column for believers only.
Those of you who are regular readers will know that I often
publicise theories that run counter to my own beliefs, and that
I try to give this column balance. Where sceptical research is
solid or interesting it's as likely to be featured here as
anything pushed by those who support the Extraterrestrial
Hypothesis. Similarly, believers won't get an easy ride just
because I'm a believer too. If they put forward ludicrous claims
I'll say so, calling it how I see it. I've been accused of
knocking the sceptics, but again, those who have followed this
column for a while will know I've knocked more than a few
believers. Like most serious ufologists I welcome good research
and innovative ideas whoever puts it forward. If sceptics think
I'm being hard on them, it's probably because I think they've
moved from scepticism into something more destructive. As the
latest Whitehall soundbite reminds us:

"Scepticism is healthy; cynicism is corrosive."


Did Meteors Bring Life To Earth?

The idea that life on Earth was seeded by organic material
brought here by comets is not new, but has been given a recent
boost by new research done by scientists from the University of
Berkeley. Scientists have long been interested in the so-called
"Cambrian explosion" - a period in the Earth's history around
500 million years ago when there was a sudden and spectacular
diversification of animal life. New analysis of lunar soil
suggests that this period coincided with a time when the moon
(and by implication, the Earth) was being hit by increased
numbers of comets and meteors. Coincidence? Possibly. But then
again, it certainly seems that there might be a connection.
Recently there has been much talk of the threat posed to
humanity by comets and meteors. How ironic it would be if the
thing that we fear could bring about the end of the human race
had played a major part in its creation.


Ball Lightning

Some ufologists believe that ball lightning might explain some
of the more mysterious UFO sightings to have occurred over the
years. Others point out that the scientific establishment is not
corporately convinced that ball lightning exists, and have
argued that one shouldn't try to explain one mystery by citing
another mystery as the cause. New research might breathe new
life into this old debate. John Abrahamson and James Dinniss are
chemical engineers at the University of Canterbury in
Christchurch, New Zealand. In a recent article in the
prestigious scientific journal Nature, they suggest that ball
lightning might be caused by an ordinary lightning strike. Their
theory is that silicon in the ground might liquefied as a result
of a lightning strike, and gain enough energy to rise into the
air. It's hoped that this new theory might now be tested in a
laboratory. That's more difficult than it sounds, but if ball
lightning could be created in a laboratory environment, this
would be a major step forward.


The Ghost Orchid

I've been sent some bizarre material that should be of interest
to all those with an interest in the paranormal. The Ghost
Orchid is a CD devoted to what's known in paranormal circles as
Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP). This arises when disembodied
voices spontaneously appear on tape. What on earth is going on?
Messages from aliens or the spirit world, or accidental
recordings of radio broadcasts? Heartless hoaxes or a window on
another dimension? Now you can decide for yourself as the best
of this material is brought together, together with commentary
and theories from the experts. The Ghost Orchid is available
from all good record shops. Check out
www.touch.demon.co.uk/ashrip.htm for further details.


When The Gods came Down

Just published by Hodder and Stoughton at �20 is Alan Alford's
latest book, When The Gods Came Down. It's not yet been received
for review, but should be of interest to all those intrigued by
mysteries of the past and theories about human origins. Move
over, von Daniken.


Tracking The Beast Of Bodmin

Are there really pumas, panthers and other big cats roaming
around the English countryside? The Beast of Exmoor � the Surrey
Puma � the Beast of Bodmin. These names have entered the popular
culture, and have filled many column inches in the local and
national press over recent years. Step forward the Royal Air
Force, who have just finished a surveillance operation designed
to see if the Beast of Bodmin really exists. 2625 Royal
Auxiliary Air Force Squadron were on night exercise over the
weekend of 18/19 March and were asked to keep a look out for the
beast. Nothing was seen, despite the use of night vision
goggles, thermal imagers and other sophisticated surveillance
equipment. The truth, it seems, is still out there - somewhere.


NASA UFO Footage

I'm not going to repeat the story at length, as it's been told
many times and in many places over the last few weeks. But there
are new video tapes doing the rounds that show what are alleged
to be downlinks from NASA's own shuttle footage. And guess what
you can see on the films? Are they alien spacecraft, ice
crystals or something entirely new? The current (March/April
2000) edition of UFO Magazine carries this as its lead story.
Samples can be viewed at www.ufomag.co.uk and a 90 minute video
tape can be ordered from the same website. Check it out.

Nick Pope
London
April 2000

Nick Pope's three books, Open Skies, Closed Minds, The Uninvited
and Operation Thunder Child are available from all good
bookshops. His UK publishers are Simon & Schuster. In America,
The Overlook Press publish his books in hardback while Dell
Publishing produce paperback editions.








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   May > May 6

                   Re: Nick Pope's Weird World (May issue)

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 02:29:07 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 09:03:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Nick Pope's Weird World (May issue)


Nick Pope Weird World (MAY Issue)
www.hotgossip.co.uk

Welcome to May's column, with all the latest news and gossip on
ufology, the paranormal, and other items of interest.

Rudloe Revelations

The underground facility at Corsham in Wiltshire - part of what
used to be RAF Rudloe Manor - has frequently been linked to
secret UFO work, ever since hints that Rudloe Manor had such a
role emerged in Timothy Good's 1987 book, Above Top Secret. I'm
not a believer in these claims, but for all those with an
interest in the site a revealing insight into the underground
facility was given in the 17 March issue of RAF News (an
unclassified publication available to the public and sold at
larger newsagents). The article is illustrated with photographs,
giving a rare glimpse of some of the many tunnels and rooms that
make up this impressive site. For those unable to get hold of
this back issue, further information on the Corsham site can be
found in Mark Quested's article in issue 11 of The Unopened
Files and in Nicholas McCamley's book Secret Underground Cities,
which is published by Leo Cooper.


Double Whammy

By the time you read this, the next issue of UFO Magazine should
have hit the streets (it's out on 27 April). The next edition of
its sister publication, The Unopened Files, is out on 25 May.
Both are essential reading for those with an interest in
ufology, mysteries, suppressed and hard to get information.
Check out www.ufomag.co.uk for details of both magazines,
together with information on how to order a wealth of
fascinating books, videos and document packs.


Goodbye And Good Luck

Ufologists on the Internet can hardly have missed the
announcement that radio show host Art Bell announced that he'll
be signing off for good on 26 April. Over the last few years Art
Bell has championed ufology, and has interviewed some of the top
figures in ufology, making all the tapes available through his
website. For legal reasons I'm taking the decision not to go
into the accusations and counter accusations that have gone on,
but will simply direct people to www.artbell.com where they can
see his announcement for themselves, and check out some of the
other data. Whatever happens, ufologists will miss Art Bell, and
will doubtless wish to see him back again before too long. But
if that's not to be, goodbye, good luck, and thanks for your
commitment to ufology.

Area 51 Exists - Just Ask The Russians

I'm sure everyone saw the Russian satellite photographs of the
facility popularly known as Area 51, which have been widely
publicised on the Internet and - in the third week of April - in
many of the national newspapers. But for those of you who
haven't, and who want to, now is the time to call up your
favourite search engine, key in 'Area 51', and see what happens.
Enjoy.


The X Factor

Following on from the above story, issue 86 of the excellent
Marshall Cavendish partwork magazine The X Factor featured an
interview with David Adair, who claims to have worked at Area
51. The interview covers subjects such as the alleged
back-engineering of alien vehicles, and is worth a look if Area
51 is your thing. E-mail xfactor @ btinternet.com for details of
how to get hold of this magazine. The video David Adair at Area
51 is available from Free Spirit Productions. I don't have
contact details for them, but try an Internet search if you want
to find out more.


New Roswell Witness

The UFO UpDates Archive web site is one of the best sources of
information about breaking news in the weird and wonderful world
of ufology (although as with many sites, pretty much anyone can
post, as long as it isn't offensive, so it can be difficult
sorting out the wheat from the chaff). It really is worth a
browse, and I can't believe that ufologists reading this will be
unaware of it. But just in case, it comes highly recommended.
And as it's only a short leap from Area 51 to Roswell, I though
I should point you in the direction of a post from Ed Gehrman,
that appeared on UFO UpDates on 31 March (look through their
list of previous posts), concerning a new witness to the Roswell
crash. Check it out: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/


New Abduction Book

Jenny Randle's The Complete Book of Aliens & Abductions was
released in paperback on 27 April, and is published by Piatkus
Books at œ10.99. it's a good introduction to the subject of
alien abductions for those new to the subject, and accordingly,
my endorsement appears on the back cover (we're all friends in
ufology really!). Check out www.piatkus.co.uk for details of
this and other interesting titles on ufology and the paranormal.


A Mars A Day

I've not yet seen Brian De Palma's new movie Mission To Mars,
but I do plan on going, despite some less than generous reviews.
The film stars Tim Robbins, Connie Nielsen and Gary Sinise, and
the dnouement should please those with an interest in the
so-called Face on Mars, and those who believe that intelligent
life once existed on the Mars. This is obviously a popular
subject at the moment, because the film Red Planet will be
released late in 2000. Try an Internet search for details of
this yet to be released movie.


Start Spreading The News

I'll be going to New York for the Year 2000 UFO Abduction Conference,
held on 6 May at the New York Hall of Science in Flushing Meadow. I'll
be sharing the platform with the likes of Budd Hopkins and John Mack,
and will be writing about my trip for the next edition of UFO
Magazine. Check out www.IntrudersFoundation.org for further details of
both the conference and the group behind it.


Nick Pope
London
May 2000

Nick Pope's three books, Open Skies, Closed Minds, The Uninvited and
Operation Thunder Child are available from all good bookshops. His UK
publishers are Simon & Schuster. In America, The Overlook Press
publish his books in hardback while Dell Publishing produce paperback
editions.








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 6

                     Nick Pope's Weird World (May issue)

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 02:29:07 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 09:05:30 -0400
Subject: Nick Pope's Weird World (May issue)


Nick Pope Weird World (MAY Issue)
www.hotgossip.co.uk

Welcome to May's column, with all the latest news and gossip on
ufology, the paranormal, and other items of interest.

Rudloe Revelations

The underground facility at Corsham in Wiltshire - part of what
used to be RAF Rudloe Manor - has frequently been linked to
secret UFO work, ever since hints that Rudloe Manor had such a
role emerged in Timothy Good's 1987 book, Above Top Secret. I'm
not a believer in these claims, but for all those with an
interest in the site a revealing insight into the underground
facility was given in the 17 March issue of RAF News (an
unclassified publication available to the public and sold at
larger newsagents). The article is illustrated with photographs,
giving a rare glimpse of some of the many tunnels and rooms that
make up this impressive site. For those unable to get hold of
this back issue, further information on the Corsham site can be
found in Mark Quested's article in issue 11 of The Unopened
Files and in Nicholas McCamley's book Secret Underground Cities,
which is published by Leo Cooper.


Double Whammy

By the time you read this, the next issue of UFO Magazine should
have hit the streets (it's out on 27 April). The next edition of
its sister publication, The Unopened Files, is out on 25 May.
Both are essential reading for those with an interest in
ufology, mysteries, suppressed and hard to get information.
Check out www.ufomag.co.uk for details of both magazines,
together with information on how to order a wealth of
fascinating books, videos and document packs.


Goodbye And Good Luck

Ufologists on the Internet can hardly have missed the
announcement that radio show host Art Bell announced that he'll
be signing off for good on 26 April. Over the last few years Art
Bell has championed ufology, and has interviewed some of the top
figures in ufology, making all the tapes available through his
website. For legal reasons I'm taking the decision not to go
into the accusations and counter accusations that have gone on,
but will simply direct people to www.artbell.com where they can
see his announcement for themselves, and check out some of the
other data. Whatever happens, ufologists will miss Art Bell, and
will doubtless wish to see him back again before too long. But
if that's not to be, goodbye, good luck, and thanks for your
commitment to ufology.

Area 51 Exists - Just Ask The Russians

I'm sure everyone saw the Russian satellite photographs of the
facility popularly known as Area 51, which have been widely
publicised on the Internet and - in the third week of April - in
many of the national newspapers. But for those of you who
haven't, and who want to, now is the time to call up your
favourite search engine, key in 'Area 51', and see what happens.
Enjoy.


The X Factor

Following on from the above story, issue 86 of the excellent
Marshall Cavendish partwork magazine The X Factor featured an
interview with David Adair, who claims to have worked at Area
51. The interview covers subjects such as the alleged
back-engineering of alien vehicles, and is worth a look if Area
51 is your thing. E-mail xfactor @ btinternet.com for details of
how to get hold of this magazine. The video David Adair at Area
51 is available from Free Spirit Productions. I don't have
contact details for them, but try an Internet search if you want
to find out more.


New Roswell Witness

The UFO UpDates Archive web site is one of the best sources of
information about breaking news in the weird and wonderful world
of ufology (although as with many sites, pretty much anyone can
post, as long as it isn't offensive, so it can be difficult
sorting out the wheat from the chaff). It really is worth a
browse, and I can't believe that ufologists reading this will be
unaware of it. But just in case, it comes highly recommended.
And as it's only a short leap from Area 51 to Roswell, I though
I should point you in the direction of a post from Ed Gehrman,
that appeared on UFO UpDates on 31 March (look through their
list of previous posts), concerning a new witness to the Roswell
crash. Check it out: http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/


New Abduction Book

Jenny Randle's The Complete Book of Aliens & Abductions was
released in paperback on 27 April, and is published by Piatkus
Books at œ10.99. it's a good introduction to the subject of
alien abductions for those new to the subject, and accordingly,
my endorsement appears on the back cover (we're all friends in
ufology really!). Check out www.piatkus.co.uk for details of
this and other interesting titles on ufology and the paranormal.


A Mars A Day

I've not yet seen Brian De Palma's new movie Mission To Mars,
but I do plan on going, despite some less than generous reviews.
The film stars Tim Robbins, Connie Nielsen and Gary Sinise, and
the dnouement should please those with an interest in the
so-called Face on Mars, and those who believe that intelligent
life once existed on the Mars. This is obviously a popular
subject at the moment, because the film Red Planet will be
released late in 2000. Try an Internet search for details of
this yet to be released movie.


Start Spreading The News

I'll be going to New York for the Year 2000 UFO Abduction Conference,
held on 6 May at the New York Hall of Science in Flushing Meadow. I'll
be sharing the platform with the likes of Budd Hopkins and John Mack,
and will be writing about my trip for the next edition of UFO
Magazine. Check out www.IntrudersFoundation.org for further details of
both the conference and the group behind it.


Nick Pope
London
May 2000

Nick Pope's three books, Open Skies, Closed Minds, The Uninvited and
Operation Thunder Child are available from all good bookshops. His UK
publishers are Simon & Schuster. In America, The Overlook Press
publish his books in hardback while Dell Publishing produce paperback
editions.







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 6

                       NUFORA UK Conference June 2000

From: Carolyn Buckley <cosmiccarrie@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 16:26:17 +0000 (GMT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 12:46:44 -0400
Subject: NUFORA UK Conference June 2000



Hi Everyone,

NUFORA are pleased to announce the Different View of Reality
Conference at the Patten Arms Hotel, Warrington, Cheshire, UK,
on 10th June 2000.

For further details, please check out the following website URL:
http://www.angelfire.com/sd/NUFORA/dvrc.html

Carolyn Buckley
General Secretary
NUFORA








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   May > May 7

                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 11:46:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:01:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 18:40:45 -0400
 >From: Mark Cashman <mcashman@temporaldoorway.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 09:40:49 +0100
 >>From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Have any researchers who have encountered a number of these
 >>cases noted whether the same range of effects are found in
 >>both petrol _and_ diesel-powered vehicles?, as diesil engines
 >>don't have an ignition system. They also have a far higher
 >>compression ratio and would need a heck more "ooomph" to get
 >>them re-started.

 >Hi, Neil!

 >Diesel engines typically are not halted in vehicle interference
 >cases. In one case a car and a truck were near a UFO, and the
 >car was halted and the truck kept running.


Neil & Mark,

Besides not having an ignition system, many diesels use a
mechanical fuel pump (the fuel pump is connected to the crank in
some manner). After these diesels are started, they'll keep
chugging along until they run out of fuel. Electrical
interference shouldn't be a problem. But cars with diesel
engines might stall because many use electric fuel pumps. Once
stalled, it's doubtful they would restart by themselves. I agree
with Neil; it would take some "ooomph" to get them running
again.

Ed








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   May > May 7

                     Re: NUFORA UK Conference June 2000

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 17:38:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:10:49 -0400
Subject: Re: NUFORA UK Conference June 2000


 >Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 16:26:17 +0000 (GMT)
 >From: Carolyn Buckley <cosmiccarrie@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: NUFORA UK Conference June 2000
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hi Everyone,

 >NUFORA are pleased to announce the Different View of Reality
 >Conference at the Patten Arms Hotel, Warrington, Cheshire, UK,
 >on 10th June 2000.

 >For further details, please check out the following website URL:
 >http://www.angelfire.com/sd/NUFORA/dvrc.html


Dear Carolyn:

I regret that I cannot attend. I do however have a four-pack of
Tetley's English Ale, among other things, and shall be with you
in spirits.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

- - -







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   May > May 7

                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:32:56 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 00:17:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 22:42:03 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >To: Ufo UpDates <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Prediction for May 7 Imaging Opportunity

 >by Mac Tonnies,
 >The Cydonian Imperative

 >The Mars Global Surveyor will be in a position to re-photograph
 >the Face on Mars from directly above on May 7. A vigorous online
 >petition demanding MSSS to reimage this perplexing formation,
 >coupled with MSSS' recent release of two years worth of
 >'missing' Cydonia photographs, indicates a level of interest in
 >the Face Malin has been remiss in divulging to the public. Thus
 >there's a significant chance that the image will be taken and
 >publically released.

 >But what will it tell us?

 >The new image (if taken and released, as hoped) will not likely
 >'prove' either side of the Cydonia debate. The ever-vigilant

Here is my prediction, the photos will be released (eventually)
and will not show a face on Mars but will show a rock formation
that with the right sun angle and a photo release from a low
resolution camera (20 years ago or whenever the original was
taken) appears to be a face.

Truly that won't matter in the slightest. Even if a whole bunch
of "perfect" photos (shot from every conceivable angle of
course) of that part of Mars were released and they did not show
the face that the supporters suppose is in fact there, they will
then have all sorts of rationalizations as to why the photos
were retouched by the evil conspiracy, why NASA is hiding the
truth, why insiders are censoring information and the debate
will go on for years.

Naturally if the photos aren't instantly released to Mars Face
supporters this will be further fodder to the evil government
conspiracy theory.

So the debate will go on, and on, and on until another space
craft does a photo fly by and shoots another set of photos.

I truly hope I am wrong, but suspect not.

Cheers,

Robert







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   May > May 7

                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:08:40 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 07:35:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:32:56 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>The new image (if taken and released, as hoped) >>will not
 >>likely 'prove' either side of the Cydonia debate.

 >Even if a whole bunch of "perfect" photos (shot from every
 >conceivable angle of course) of that part of Mars were
 >released and they  did not show the face that the supporters
 >suppose is in fact there, they will then have all sorts of
 >rationalizations as to why the photos were retouched by the
 >evil conspiracy, why NASA is hiding the truth, why insiders
 >are censoring information and the debate will go on for
 >years.

Robert,

I am increasingly annoyed by this cheap avenue of attack. Please
specify where in any of my Cydonia updates/editorials have I
insinuated that NASA is "doctoring" the "evidence." Certainly
one can argue that there are those who will never be satisfied.
I'm not concerned with them. My interest in Cydonia is one of
purely scientific and intellectual interest; my attitude is
shared by SPSR (Scientists for Planetary SETI Research) who have
collectively shown that the "Face" on Mars is indeed an enigma
worth investigating at high resolution.

And _when_ are the so-called "skeptics" going to dispense with
the demonstrated fiction that the Face formation is a trick of
lighting? I refer you to Mark Carlotto's "The Martian Enigmas,"
which goes into painstaking detail about the procedures used to
demonstrate that the Face remains facelike at virtually any
lighting angle. The MGS results are in keeping with his
predictions, as illustrated in the animated GIF posted on my
website: http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html.

 >Naturally if the photos aren't instantly released to Mars
 >Face supporters this will be further fodder to the evil
 >government conspiracy theory.

If photos aren't released, I'll naturally interpret this as a
blow to researchers who want to get to the bottom of this very
real mystery. Again, where have I accused anyone of hiding
anything? Rhetoric like your letter do as much to hinder
intelligent debate re. Cydonia as the unsubstantiated ravings of
"true believers." (I agree with you that there are plenty of
"true believers" out there. But interest in Cydonia  apparently
makes one guilty by association with these individuals. This is
certainly not a healthy situation, and it's most definitely not
a scientific one.)



=====
Mac Tonnies
239 E. Sea
Independence, MO 65050
816-833-5910
macbot@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html







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                            Re: Vehicle Shutdown?

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 06:41:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 07:37:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?


 >Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 11:46:29 -0800
 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Subject: Re: Vehicle Shutdown?
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Neil & Mark,

 >Besides not having an ignition system, many diesels use a
 >mechanical fuel pump (the fuel pump is connected to the crank in
 >some manner). After these diesels are started, they'll keep
 >chugging along until they run out of fuel. Electrical
 >interference shouldn't be a problem. But cars with diesel
 >engines might stall because many use electric fuel pumps. Once
 >stalled, it's doubtful they would restart by themselves. I agree
 >with Neil; it would take some "ooomph" to get them running
 >again.

In addition, many diesel automobiles have a solenoid in the fuel
line that is designed to close automatically if power is cut
off. I drove a small diesel VW Rabbit for a while and became
stranded by this "feature" when I thought I could make it to the
next gas station for repairs while on a trip.

Steve








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                    Re: Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment?

From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 07:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 08:31:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment?

             Oz & ASIA DATA RESEARCH
           Phenomena Research Australia


 >Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:03:04 +0100
 >From: Marc Bell <marc@wufog.freeserve.co.uk>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Apollo 14 Cosmic Ray Experiment?

MARC ASKED:

 >Is there any information available on the following.

 >I remembering hearing in 1971 about experiments carried
 >out on Apollo 14, which were conducted into a study of
 >whether cosmic rays that penetrate the optic nerves
 >being responsible for the 'alledged' optical flashes
 >astronauts had been experiencing.

 >Especially as what is talked about today is often
 >refered to as 'optical flashes'.

 >Was this a cover story for UFO sightings for
 >astronauts, or one in the waiting just in case?

<snip>

Hi Marc, EBK and Researchers,

This may be a bit late, however, I noticed that Marc's question
had not received an answer. The "ILU BUG - that ended the earth"
and may I say, they now think has come from Oz, designed by a
German exchange student - strange days indeed, EBK - has
distracted everyone, so I hope this will help Marc get back on
track?

                            ***

The current technical name for this type of 'optical flashes' is
"Phosphenes".

The 1971 experiments did take place, and on Apollo 14.

There was no cover-up from what I know (?), as there are a
number of reports and papers on the experiment on our data base
files and around the Australia.

The general thrust of the papers/research was on safety
investigations to determine realistic human tolerance levels for
extended missions and to evaluate the need to provide special
spacecraft shielding.

As I have said on other forum, "cosmic rays (CR)" are very
"Nasty" things that do not mix well with electronics and humans.
They crash into things. They are heavy, high-energy particles.
Cosmic rays (CR) love to smash things.

Energies of cosmic-ray particles are measured in units of
giga-electronvolts (billion electron volts,GeV) per proton or
neutron in the nucleus. The distribution of proton energies of
cosmic rays peaks at 0.3 GeV, corresponding to a velocity
two-thirds that of light; it falls towards higher energies,
although particles up to 1011 GeV have been detected indirectly,
through the showers of secondary particles created when they
collide with atmospheric nuclei. About 1 electron volt of energy
per cubic centimetre of space is invested in cosmic rays in our
galaxy, on average.

Therefore, the human brain & eye are NOT compatible to the
"Nasty" Cosmic Rays. The damage they can do is horrific. Back to
the papers!


PAPERS:

The best 3 papers on the Apollo 14 research are:

[1]. Title:   "Observations of cosmic ray induced
                phosphenes"
      Journal: Proc. of the Natl. Symp. on Nat.
               and Manmade Radiation in Space.
      Authors: Chapman,  P. K. (MSC)
               Pinsky,   L. S. (MSC)
               Benson,   R. E. (MSC)
               Budinger, T. F. (Calif. Univ.)

               (MSC) = NASA Manned Spacecraft Center

      Page:    1002-1006
      Pub:     Jan 01, 1972.
      Doc ID:  19720010081 N
                 or (72N17731)
                 or N72-17601 08-22

[2]  Title:   "Vision in space"
      Journal: Medecine Aeronautique et Spatiale
      Authors: Chevaleraud, J. P.
               From the - Ecole d'Application du Service
               de Sante pour l'Armee de l'Air.
      Page:    vol. 19 , 4th Quarter, p261-264.
               In French(!)
      Pub:     Dec 01, 1980
      Doc ID:  ?


The best NASA paper is :

[3]  Title:   "Special technical services for
               investigation of light flash phenomena"
      Journal: NASA Paper?
      Authors: ?
      Page:    1-15
      Pub:     Mar 01, 1973
      Doc ID:  NASA-CR-128866
      E-mail:  help@sti.nasa.gov

ABSTRACT [3]:

"Details are presented of an investigation aimed at an
explanation of the phenomenon of light flashes observed by
Apollo crew members. The various theories considered include:
penetration of the eye by cosmic particles resulting in retinal
stimulation; production of phosphenes or sensations of light
through ionization or excitation; appearance of heavily ionized
single tracks misinterpreted as light flashes; Cerenkov
radiation; and direct excitation of neural tissue by penetrating
cosmic rays. It is concluded that the latter two theories are
the likeliest mechanisms for the development of a definitive
explanation".

                             ***

All are very good starting points for your research. If you
follow the references the "data field" will open up for you.

                             ***

If you're very brave, you can experience the effect. This was
done by Russians! Either Brave or mad men & women?

That experiment was written up in a paper called:


[4]  Title:   "Visual sensations evoked by single
                electrons and muons"
      Journal: Akademiia Nauk SSSR, Doklady
      Authors: Arodzero, A. A.
               Gramenitskii, P. V.
               Fetisov, I. N.

               All from the - Moskovskoe Vysshee
               Tekhnicheskoe Uchilishche.

      Page:    vol. 270, no. 3, 1983, p725-727.
               In Russian.
      Pub:     Jan 01, 1983
      Doc ID:  ISSN 0002-3264

ABSTRACT [4]:

"The limiting capabilities of the human eye to register visual
sensations evoked by individual single-charged relativistic
particles were investigated and the effectiveness of the human
eye as a detector of these particles was evaluated. The
experiments utilized cosmic ray particles at a height of 3250 m,
where the charged components consist of electrons (65 %), muons
(30 %), and protons (4 %).

The experimental apparatus consisted of a scintillation
telescope, which recorded the passage of these particles,
aligned with the retina of the observers' eyes. The observers,
whose vision was adapted to darkness, made a signal each time
they perceived a visual sensation in either or both eyes.

Results show that the human eye is capable of registering the
passage of individual single-charged relativistic particles with
an effectiveness of 1%-8%".

                             ***

A bit long, but I hope this will be of some help.

Thanks EBK.

Best regards to all on the list.


John W. Auchettl
Director
PRA Research

WEB: http://www.praufo.web.com

Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE







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                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Kurt Jonach <ewarrior@electricwarrior.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 09:35:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 13:09:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:08:40 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >And _when_ are the so-called "skeptics" going to dispense with
 >the demonstrated fiction that the Face formation is a trick of
 >lighting? I refer you to Mark Carlotto's "The Martian Enigmas,"
 >which goes into painstaking detail about the procedures used to
 >demonstrate that the Face remains facelike at virtually any
 >lighting angle.

<snip>

Another perennial favorite is the 'Happy Face Crater'. Carlotto
quotes McDaniel as saying the Happy Face would be a poor
rendering of something that was already a cartoon. To my mind,
this is a bad example of an anthropomorphism, yet they keep
serving it up as if it were new.

 >(I agree with you that there are plenty of
 >"true believers" out there. But interest in Cydonia  apparently
 >makes one guilty by association with these individuals. This is
 >certainly not a healthy situation, and it's most definitely not
 >a scientific one.)

And, Mac, there are many on this list who appreciate a good
argument, so, you are not wasting your breadth.

-kj








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                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 09:45:30 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 13:12:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:32:56 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 22:42:03 -0700 (PDT)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>Subject: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >>To: Ufo UpDates <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Prediction for May 7 Imaging Opportunity

 >Here is my prediction, the photos will be released (eventually)
 >and will not show a face on Mars but will show a rock formation
 >that with the right sun angle and a photo release from a low
 >resolution camera (20 years ago or whenever the original was
 >taken) appears to be a face.

It would be truly surprising if additional MGS images showed no
hint of a face in the landform, since the high-resolution image
already acquired by MGS in April '98 showed more details that
could reasonably be interpreted as facial features than did the
Viking images. This despite the poor lighting angle and viewing
conditions.

 >Naturally if the photos aren't instantly released to Mars Face
 >supporters this will be further fodder to the evil government
 >conspiracy theory.

I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears again, but I'll point out
once more that JPL _explicitly_ promised to announce Cydonia
imaging opportunities in advance and then post the resulting
images on the Internet.

They have flagrantly broken that promise many times over. That
and other known JPL deviations from honorable conduct, most
notably the phony Catbox "enhancement" they put out to the
credulous news media, are perfectly rational grounds for
distrusting them.

It's not the images themselves that raise doubts in people's
minds about JPL; it's their well-documented pattern of deceptive
claims and actions.

It's true that some people tend to accuse JPL of image tampering
every time MGS returns a picture that doesn't show exactly what
they wanted to see.

It's also true that other people are totally self-blinded to the
real abuses of power committed by JPL in its quest to suppress
public interest in legitimate scientific questions on the
possible artificiality of Cydonia landforms.

Monotonous repetitions of the "conspiracy theory" mantra won't
change that fact.









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                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 11:54:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 13:17:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:08:40 -0700 (PDT)
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 07:35:16 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

 >>Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:32:56 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


Previously, Robert wrote:

 >>>The new image (if taken and released, as hoped) >>will not
 >>>likely 'prove' either side of the Cydonia debate.

 >>Even if a whole bunch of "perfect" photos (shot from every
 >>conceivable angle of course) of that part of Mars were
 >>released and they  did not show the face that the supporters
 >>suppose is in fact there, they will then have all sorts of
 >>rationalizations as to why the photos were retouched by the
 >>evil conspiracy, why NASA is hiding the truth, why insiders
 >>are censoring information and the debate will go on for
 >>years.

To which Mac replied:

 >I am increasingly annoyed by this cheap avenue of attack. Please
 >specify where in any of my Cydonia updates/editorials have I
 >insinuated that NASA is "doctoring" the "evidence." Certainly
 >one can argue that there are those who will never be satisfied.
 >I'm not concerned with them. My interest in Cydonia is one of
 >purely scientific and intellectual interest; my attitude is
 >shared by SPSR (Scientists for Planetary SETI Research) who have
 >collectively shown that the "Face" on Mars is indeed an enigma
 >worth investigating at high resolution.

Hello, Robert, Mac and all...

I must agree with Mac. While I do not buy into the conspiracy
theory that Robert claims is floating in the air, I do believe
that NASA has got some 'splainin to do.

Think of it like this:

Main stream science/NASA/SETI maintains that there is no
evidence that we've been visited despite the multitude of UFO
photos/sightings that turn up every year. When these UFO
photos/sightings aren't given serious consideration, we all cry
"foul" because mainstream science has once again turned up their
collective noses at what might be evidence that warrants further
investigation. And make no mistake, here; these UFO photos that
we so dearly cling to as evidence, for the most part, aren't any
where as provocative as the 'Face' photo is regardless of one's
position on the validity of either UFOs or the Face formation.
While someone might have faked a UFO photo, no one has the means
to go to Mars and fake the 'Face' formation.

To put it simply, the Face photo stirs the imagination and
beckons examination. If it is nothing but a funky pile of rocks,
then mainstream science should be eager to prove it just that.
On the other hand, delays in photo releases, refusals to carry
out promised photographic surveys and "doctoring" of images
released to the media do nothing to increase NASA's credibility
with anyone, regardless of one's position regarding the Cydonia
site.

This is a lot like the whole Santilli saga. Like Santilli, NASA
has the means to put this speculation to an end and, in fact,
has made empty promises to do so. In all likelihood, it probably
is just a funky pile of rocks. But I must agree with Mac that
NASA's reluctance to deal with something so provocative only
adds fuel to the fire. With NASA continually facing budget cuts
and beleaguered with technical failures, could it be that they
WANT Mars to remain a mystery to the public? With all the debate
surrounding Cydonia, it would certainly go a long way toward
sustaining public curiosity and support for more space
exploration on the bases that the 'Face' _might_ be real.

A friend of mine that once did research used to say,"We mustn't
get results too quickly. If we do, they won't renew the grant!"

Hmmmm....


Later,

Roger Evans









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                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 13:27:17 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 16:34:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image



 >Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 11:54:25 -0500
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Main stream science/NASA/SETI maintains that there is no
 >evidence that we've been visited despite the multitude of UFO
 >photos/sightings that turn up every year. When these UFO
 >photos/sightings aren't given serious consideration, we all
 >cry "foul" because mainstream science has once again turned up
 >their collective noses at what might be evidence that warrants
 >further investigation. And make no mistake, here; these UFO
 >photos that we so dearly cling to as evidence, for the most
 >part, aren't any where as provocative as the 'Face' photo is
 >regardless of one's position on the validity of either UFOs or
the Face formation.

As far as photos are concerned, I think you're absolutely right.
The Face is an especially interesting challenge because the
evidence for artificiality can be _tested_.  It's not going
anywhere and we can photograph it at our leisure and use sound
science to come to a conclusion - though it's very possible a
definitive conclusion will have to wait until we land people in
Cydonia; it's too early to tell.

If we had the wreckage of a known UFO to inspect in a hanger
somewhere (and who knows?), this would put the UFO question on
an evidential level with that of the Face on Mars.



=====
Mac Tonnies
239 E. Sea
Independence, MO 65050
816-833-5910
macbot@yahoo.com
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html







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                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 17:16:48 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 08:58:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:08:40 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:32:56 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >>>The new image (if taken and released, as hoped) >>will not
 >>>likely 'prove' either side of the Cydonia debate.

 >>Even if a whole bunch of "perfect" photos (shot from every
 >>conceivable angle of course) of that part of Mars were
 >>released and they did not show the face that the supporters
 >>suppose is in fact there, they will then have all sorts of
 >>rationalizations as to why the photos were retouched by the
 >>evil conspiracy, why NASA is hiding the truth, why insiders
 >>are censoring information and the debate will go on for
 >>years.

 >I am increasingly annoyed by this cheap avenue of attack. Please
 >specify where in any of my Cydonia updates/editorials have I
 >insinuated that NASA is "doctoring" the "evidence." Certainly
 >one can argue that there are those who will never be satisfied.

Mac

Don't get your shorts in a knot over this one. I was making a
general observation and if you had noticed it generally agreed
with you that neither side of the debate will be happy with any
results no matter what they are, no matter how perfect the
photos, no matter how many times the site is photographed.

 >I'm not concerned with them. My interest in Cydonia is one of
 >purely scientific and intellectual interest; my attitude is
 >shared by SPSR (Scientists for Planetary SETI Research) who have
 >collectively shown that the "Face" on Mars is indeed an enigma
 >worth investigating at high resolution.

What about the so called smilie face on MARS which could be
considered to be greater evidence of intelligent creation then
the so called face?

Many years ago I spent time going over aerial photos of the
desert south west for a historical project. Looking strictly at
the photos we ran across features that looked like man made
structures and so on. While we were doing ground investigation
we took the opportunity to look at these structures and they
were very much naturally created.

 >And _when_ are the so-called "skeptics" going to dispense with
 >the demonstrated fiction that the Face formation is a trick of
 >lighting? I refer you to Mark Carlotto's "The Martian Enigmas,"
 >which goes into painstaking detail about the procedures used to
 >demonstrate that the Face remains facelike at virtually any
 >lighting angle. The MGS results are in keeping with his
 >predictions, as illustrated in the animated GIF posted on my
 >website: http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html.

They are still his interpretation. Like I said earlier if the
new photos don't prove his, or anybody elses Mars theory
beyond a reasonable doubt, it will be labeled to be
part of the evil government conspiracy. After all the
believers all know their is a face on Mars, so whats
NASA's problem?

As to the release of the photos, plan to wait awhile, as thats
the way government works, slow, agonizing, and through
contractors.

Cheers,

Robert








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                                   Quotes

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 22:46:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 09:06:43 -0400
Subject: Quotes


It aint over till the fat lady sings.

Elvis has left the building.

I categorically did not have sex with Miss Lewinsky

Pray tell, what would the quote be when the proverbial space
ship lands on the White House lawn for I fear "I told you so"
would simply not be up to it.

--
    In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                         Sean Jones
               http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/







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                                 Re: Quotes

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 10:40:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 12:13:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Quotes


 >Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 22:46:23 +0100
 >From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Quotes
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >It aint over till the fat lady sings.

 >Elvis has left the building.

 >I categorically did not have sex with Miss Lewinsky

 >Pray tell, what would the quote be when the proverbial space
 >ship lands on the White House lawn for I fear "I told you so"
 >would simply not be up to it.

Sean,

How about:

"It's the greatest meeting since Moses spoke to God."

Or:

"They ain't green after all"

Or:

"They look smaller than I thought"

My Last shot:

"Klatu verada niktu... No comprende seor?"


Serge







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                   Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 12:21:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 12:21:03 -0400
Subject: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview


-------------------------------------
Discovery Channel - Canada
Sunday, April 30th, 2000 - 12:00 Noon
'Discovery Connection'
Closed Captioning Capture
-------------------------------------

[Shermer was booked to help promote the Discovery Channel's
  series 'Into The Unknown' which aired the week of April 30 -
  May 5, 2000. --ebk]

Jay Ingram - Host

Dr. Michael Shermer - Director of the Skeptics Society

---

Ingram:  There's no doubt that many people are willing to
          believe in things that defy our scientific
          understanding of the world.

          Here today to help us get at the nature of this belief
          is Dr. Michael Shermer. He's director of the Skeptics
          Society and publisher of 'Skeptic' magazine.

          Hi, Dr. Shermer.

Shermer: Hi.

Ingram:  Life after death, ghosts, UFOs, are all these things
          nonsense?

Shermer: Well, these are experiences that people have, and the
          question is not whether it's sense or nonsense but
          whether the experience represents something inside
          somebody's mind or a misperception by their brain or
          could actually represent something out in the world.
          And our opinion, the skeptic's opinion, it's that these
          things are all phenomenon that can be explained
          naturally, mostly through psychological principles of
          deception and self-deception and miss perception.

          So I like to say that the experiences people have are
          real, and most people are very genuine when they tell
          you they've had these experiences, but what it
          represents is the question that science needs to
          address in terms of how we can get at an explanation,
          and that's what we do.

Ingram:  So how do you explain -- let's take a case like alien
          abductions.....

Shermer: Yeah.

Ingram:  An experience that seems to be shared among many
          people, because then I guess skeptics are forced to
          argue that whatever's going on in each of the brains of
          each of those people somehow arrives at a similar
          experience.

Shermer: Yeah. Well, as I recount in my book 'Why People Believe
          Weird Things', I've had an alien abduction experience
          myself. But this one was triggered by 83 hours of sleep
          deprivation in the middle of a transcontinental bike
          race, so I was physically stressed, mentally stressed,
          and yet my abduction experience was very similar to one
          that matched a television show from the 1960s that I
          had always watched when I was a kid.

          So it's emblematic of how these experiences occur.
          They're a confabulation of fact and fantasy, of
          memories, images and iconography from television,
          movies, books and popular media. So it's a shared
          cultural experience, but it's still going on inside the
          mind.

Ingram:  So if there's a reasonable non-psychic or, you know,
          non-alien explanation for some of these phenomena, why
          then do many people still hang onto the belief that
          they are real?

Shermer: Because the experience for them is real. I mean, you
          can tell a schizophrenic until you're blue in the face
          that the voices are actually inside of his head, but he
          just doesn't believe you because that's not his
          experience.

          And you can tell alien abductees that it is a
          hypnogogic hallucination or a lose I had dream or
          whatever. They're not going to believe you because it
          doesn't feel like that to them. It's a very strong
          personal experience.

Ingram:  It's intense.

Shermer: Very intense.

Ingram:  Do you and the skeptics think it's a bad thing that
          people harbour these beliefs?

Shermer: Well, on the one hand it's non-judgmental. I mean it's
          just experiences that people have that we try to
          explain. They're neither good nor bad. Can they lead to
          good or bad things? Yeah, indeed. If you look at
          Heaven's Gate as a mass suicide of 40 people because
          they believed that aliens were coming in on the mother
          ship with Comet Hale-Bopp. Now, granted most abductees
          are not going to kill themselves. I will grant that.
          But you ask can it be dangerous? Yeah, it can.

Ingram:  What about turning that coin around? Is there a danger
          that, when one is a skeptic and believes firmly there
          are rational reasons for these various phenomena, that
          you run the risk of being too closed-minded to the idea
          of, you know, unsolved mysteries?

Shermer: Okay. Here's the rub. Here's the essential tension we
          all must decide between being open-minded enough to
          accept radical new ideas that turn out to be right;
          after all, we don't want to be old fogies and miss out
          on some exciting, new, revolutionary ideas, and being
          so closed-minded -- or I should say being too
          open-minded that your brains fall out, that you accept
          anything.

          So the essential tension there is between orthodoxy and
          conservatism and not believing too many wacky ideas,
          and yet you want to be open-minded enough to accept the
          good ideas. That's what's difficult to tell. That's why
          we need science, because science is the best method we
          have for determining where that balance is.

Ingram:  Dr. Shermer, when you look around the world, you see
          the belief in the supernatural appears in most if not
          all cultures. It takes different forms obviously. Would
          that suggest to you that there is some sort of
          biological-slash-evolutionary reason for these beliefs?

Shermer: Yeah. Actually in my new book called 'How We Believe',
          I have a whole chapter called 'Requesting The Belief
          Engine'. In it I argue that all cultures throughout
          history around the world have had some sort of belief
          in spirits, animism, god/gods, some kind of spirits and
          entities that exist beyond the 'here and now' in the
          physical world.

          I think this is a byproduct of having a large --
          byproduct of having a big frontal cortex here that
          allows us to fantasise and hallucinate and have these
          kinds of experiences and imagine that these things are
          real.

          We're also the only species we know of that are aware
          of our own mortality. Therefore we construct
          immortality theories, you know, the places where we go
          after we did. I think it's ingrained. I think it's a
          part of the fact that we are so capable of thinking and
          learning, we're also capable of mis-thinking.

Ingram:  Now, would you -- we've been talking about some
          fantastic things like the belief in aliens, but what
          you've just said suggests that standard old orthodox,
          organised religion could fall into what you call
          mis-thinking. Is that right?

Shermer: Of course it does. Heh. I mean we can't have sacred
          cows and beliefs that we're unwilling to explore simply
          because they're popular or because people are sensitive
          about it. We can be nice about it, but the idea of God
          or gods existing is no different a claim than anything
          else. I mean ultimately, when you say "God is the
          creator of the Universe", something like that, that's
          not a testable scientific claim.

          There's really no way to know if God exists or not. But
          if you argue that God intervenes into the world,
          interacts with us through prayer and healing or the
          Shroud of Turin, things like this, things that we can
          test, we can test them and we have, and they fail the
          test. And what religion and belief in God has written
          all over it is social construction. It really looks
          like something that humans made. It doesn't look like
          it was something that came from on high, and the fact
          that we understand how that happens, through social
          psychology and sociology and anthropology of religion,
          we know how these things develop, which leads me to
          believe that these beliefs, like all these others, are
          existing inside people's minds.

Ingram:  Well, thank you very much for this, Dr. Shermer.

Shermer: Thank you.

Ingram:  Dr. Michael Shermer is director of the Skeptics
          Society and author of 'Why People Believe Weird Things'
          and his latest 'How We Believe, Search For God In An
          Age Of Science'. He spoke to us from Altameda,
          California.

(Music)







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   May > May 8

                    NASA Reworking Mars Exploration Plans

From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 16:04:27 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 16:19:19 -0400
Subject: NASA Reworking Mars Exploration Plans


NASA Reworking Mars Exploration Plans


NASA's Mars Reports

by

Matthew Fordahl, Associated Press

PASADENA, Calif. (May 8, 2000 12:45 a.m. EDT
http://www.nandotimes.com) - After a pair of high-profile Mars
mission flops, NASA is rethinking its approach to the Red
Planet. The agency is conducting an unprecedented review that
includes everything from science and technology to management
and bureaucracy.

When the soul-searching is done, officials say they will have
reinvented the program that helped doom the $125 million Mars
Climate Orbiter and the $165 million Polar Lander.

A team of NASA experts, contractors and university leaders is
working on recommendations they hope to have ready this summer,
said Ed Weiler, NASA's associate administrator for space
science.

"We'll ask them to develop a plan that makes scientific sense,
exploration sense, and we're going to apply that against the
budget," he said. "The launch dates will fall where they fall."

Climate Orbiter and Polar Lander were part of a grand plan to
launch two spacecraft to the Red Planet every 26 months. By the
time the program was over in 2008, scientists figured to have
Martian soil and rock samples in their labs.

But a software problem led to a premature shutdown of the
lander's descent engine, causing it to fall 130 feet to the
ground on Dec. 3. The orbiter burned up in the atmosphere Sept.
23 because critical data were not converted to metrics.

Mindful that dumb mistakes are part of human nature, NASA is
concentrating on why they were not caught. Too little money,
lack of oversight, poor communication and an unfocused agenda
all contributed to the failures, officials said.

Some immediate changes were ordered - the indefinite delay in
the launch of a lander in 2001 and the appointment of managers
at NASA headquarters and Jet Propulsion Laboratory to oversee
Mars exploration. Only an orbiter - the Mars Surveyor 2001 -
will be launched next year.

Future missions will likely include equipment to sustain
communications during critical landing or orbit insertion
phases. It was during these radio blackouts that last year's
probes vanished, leaving investigators with few clues.

Weiler vowed to change the system so budget reserves are on hand
at NASA headquarters as well as the center where the spacecraft
is being managed.

During development of the ill-fated probes at JPL, NASA
headquarters ordered changes in the spacecraft without providing
extra money, said Donna Shirley, former manager of the Mars
exploration program at JPL.

Though money was tight from the start, add-ons like cameras and
a Russian instrument made resources even more scarce. The result
was less testing, analysis and oversight and more reliance on
contractor Lockheed Martin Astronautics, which built the
spacecraft and made the mistakes that doomed them.

"It was just a death of a thousand cuts," said Shirley, now an
assistant dean of engineering at the University of Oklahoma. "At
every single one of those points, I would say this is not good.
... At every point, headquarters would say it's just a little
thing."

The technological fixes will be easy compared to the cultural
shift that some experts believe is necessary for the program to
be successful in the era of "faster, better, cheaper" missions.

NASA Administrator Daniel Goldin said more money will be made
available to the program, but there will be no return to the
billion-dollar-plus spacecraft of the 1970s and 1980s.

"We're going to make sure they have adequate resources, but
we're not going to let the pendulum swing all the way back," he
said. "We're going to put the right amount back in."

The overhaul has to start with purpose. It has previously been
described as a search for water or life, a test of new
technology and a precursor of future manned exploration.

"What I'm asking is the question: Why do we have a Mars program?
What is the question we want to answer?" Weiler said. "That's
not going to be a 5- to 6-year program. It's going to be a
decade-long program."

Firouz Naderi, who was recently appointed manager of JPL's Mars
Program Office, said the most important question about Mars is
whether the now barren planet supports or ever supported life.
Nothing would be more profound than the answer.

"I think we need to better articulate the Mars program as a
whole, not as a bunch of separated missions each with limited
scientific goals," he said. "It is a very integrated program
aimed at a very lofty goal."

Some believe a manned mission should be the ultimate goal, but
that raises the difficult question of money, said Bruce Murray,
a former JPL director and a planetary scientist at the
California Institute of Technology.

"It doesn't cost anything in the near term," he said. "We have
to find a way to have a long-term goal that helps guide the
near-term steps."

A well-defined agenda also would help limit the scope of the
missions to what is possible given the available money.

The redefined Mars quest also could include two programs - one
focused on projects proposed by scientists from NASA centers or
universities and another on engineering and technology
development, said Louis Friedman, executive director of the
Planetary Society, a space advocacy group.

The greatest impact of the Polar Lander and Climate Orbiter
failures is the loss of time and momentum, said Robert Zubrin,
president of the Mars Society, which advocates a manned mission.

"Polar Lander sounds like a lot, except when you realize it's 60
cents for every American. It's like you just put the money in
the Coke machine and you didn't get the Coke," he said. "We lost
two years, which is a lot more serious than losing 60 cents."


Copyright � 2000 Nando Media






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   May > May 8

                          Filer's Files #18 -- 2000

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 18:35:29 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:30:44 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #18 -- 2000


Filer's Files #18 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,  Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 8,  2000, Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

THE GRAND PLANETARY ALIGNMENT ON MAY 5, 2000, had little
or no effect on the Earth despite many dire predictions.

SOLAR ACTIVITY -- Our sun seems to operate in a solar cycle of
eleven years when it undergoes a period of activity called the
"solar maximum," followed by a period of quiet called the "solar
minimum."  During the solar maximum, there are many sunspots,
solar flares, and coronal mass ejection's, all of which can
affect communications and weather here on Earth.  This year
happens to bring the beginning of the "solar maximum," the point
in the sun's eleven-year cycle of activity when sunspots and
solar flares are frequent and intense.  This activity hits our
Earth with increased radiation that can disrupt the functioning
of telecommunications, satellites, and power grids.  The cycle
is expected to peak in the in the next several months, with the
possibility of severe solar disruptions lasting for the next
five years.  It will be interesting to note if this effects UFO
activity.


NEW JERSEY BLUE LIGHTS

WATERFORD/CHISELHURST -- The first witness saw the object over
head while traveling west on Route 30 entering Waterford
Township on May 3, 2000.  The witness saw a tiny bright light in
the southeast, which then t urned to large brilliant blue
electric color and climbed in altitude.  It then descended to
its original altitude, where it stopped shortly at 3:00 AM. The
second witness saw the object slightly before it stopped moving,
and noticed a shape change and a very bright blue dove like wide
wing inverted.  It was moving at high speed toward the northwest
and appeared to be approximately 2000 to a possible 3500 feet
above ground level.  It then slowed rapidly and vanished.  Both
witnesses agree that the object changed shape and had no trail
or tail.  No noise was heard and the description of the speed
change and color were similar by both witnesses.  The car
windows were closed.  This took place on the return trip from
Atlantic City and was reported less than an hour after the
incident occurred.  Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC
www.ufocenter.com


WARETOWN - A mother reports, "Last week both of my daughters
came running downstairs from their bedrooms crying that there
was a ball of light floating around their rooms and that it
turned into three aliens."  I started reading the gospel and
tried to calm them.  Both girls do not believe in UFO's.  They
were very upset and told me they will deny it, if I tell anyone.

My ten year old cried for a couple of hours.  The older daughter
has been complaining of something behind her ear.  I can only
feel a tiny lump.  I also have a tiny lump on my neck.  When I
start trying to dig it out, I get rightened.  My 10 year old
gets terrible headaches and does not sleep much because she is
afraid, but she will not discuss it.  She explained what the
light turned into three little Gray beings.  I have told them
repeatedly, no one wants to hear this, that if you think there
is a ghost or entity, etc., keep on saying, "Jesus is my Savior.
I only worship him and no other."  I have been reading the Bible
and UFO books, the Bible indicates that aliens are really devils
in disguise.  I still think there is a war among aliens to get
control of Earth, because some species are becoming extinct and
need our reproductive capabilities.  I don't believe that when
the Gray's say they are making a new breed of perfect hybrids
that their all loving.  My children used to listen and pray with
me, but now they don't want to touch either subject and God
knows I am really giving it my all.  Thanks to Mary a possible
abductee whose name is withheld for privacy.

Editors Note: This family has been seeing strange lights in the
sky and in their home.  Several other reports have come from
this same area over looking the Bay and Barnegat Light House and
the Atlantic Ocean.  One interesting facet of the case is that
the mother is constantly fatigued.  There are many reports that
numerous abductees may have the symptoms of Chronic Fatigue
Syndrome.  Several recent abduction cases seem tied to this
disease whose symptoms are extreme fatigue, where almost all
normal tasks of life like cooking, working, shopping become
difficult, if not impossible.  Many CFS sufferers lose there
jobs since they do not have the energy to function.  According
to Better Nutrition Magazine of April 2000, "Many experts
believe that CFS is brought on by chemical imbalances in the
body."  According to two studies at England's University of
Southampton magnesium may be the missing mineral.  In the first
trial, red blood cell magnesium levels in 20 CFS patients were
found to be lower than those in 20 healthy patients, indicating
that CFS did indeed involve a shortage of magnesium.  In the
second, a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study of
32 CFS patients, researchers found that weekly injections of
magnesium sulphate produced improvement in energy, emotions and
pain levels in 80 percent of the patients, while only 3 of the
receiving a placebo felt improved.  Since magnesium supplements
are readily available, ask your doctor about adding a daily dose
of 500 mg magnesium glycinate and increasing your calcium
intake.

It is quite possible the electrical plasma like lights or the
UFOs reported by abductees delete their bodies of the normal
supply of these minerals.  This whole area of the affects UFOs
or plasmas lights have on the human body needs to be thoroughly
investigated.  Blood tests and consultation with your medical
doctor is advised.  Many abductees also report paralysis
inferring some sort of electrical current or EM may be passing
through their body.  Studies need to be accomplished to
ascertain if this could cause depletion of key minerals such as
magnesium and calcium.  Abductees report the Grays often look as
if they suffer from anemia indicating they may be suffering from
radiation poisoning, deficiencies in their immune system. or the
lack of key nutrients.  I would encourage medical experts t to
theorize on the damage that radiation may have done to the
Gray's immune system and how abductee's nutrients, bone marrow,
blood cells might help alleviate their problems.  Further, what
damage may light plasmas or UFO propulsion systems do to a UFO
witness or abductee?


GEORGIA DISC BUZZES A HOME

MARIETTA - Georgia State Director Tom Sheets writes that the
National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC) in Seattle and MUFON of
Georgia began a joint investigation into a close encounter with
a brightly lit disc on May 2, 2000.  Peter Davenport, the
Director at NUFORC, received a call from a credible Marietta
Georgia citizen regarding a disc that was observed thru a
skylight during the night.  NUFORC, already assisting on another
joint investigation in Georgia, relayed this information to
MUFONGA for follow-up investigation.  On May 3, MUFONGA Field
Investigator's (FI's) Olivia Newton and Michael Hitt interviewed
the witness who was found to by very credible with many years
devoted to work in the ministry.  She awoke sometime between
3:00 to 5:00 AM and observed a brightly lit disc overhead her
home thru her skylight.  The disc was gray metallic with a
grouping of steady red and white lights on the bottom, something
like 'headlights'.  As she watched, the craft tipped up to an
angle on it's side and revealed that the edge had three
triangular shaped window like structures.  These were rotating
around in a clockwise direction.  Light was also coming through
the windows, but was not as bright as the lights on the bottom
of the disc.  The craft was over the trees that surround the
clearing of her home.  She also detected a faint whirring sound.
As she watched, the craft descended down over her home until it
almost completely filled the view from her skylight except for a
few inches on one edge.  The lights were intensely bright
lighting up the area like daylight.  The craft then moved over
the house away from the skylight toward the northeast.  The
bright glare from the lights lessening until it was gone.  No EM
effects were noticed, but the witness indicated that she was so
focused on the event, that she felt as if she could not move.
Her husband did not awaken during the event.  Investigators
Newton and Hitt estimate the craft size to be about 25 feet in
diameter.  The witness has a greed to make a sketch of the
craft.  Photos were taken of inside and outside the house.


TUCKER - A second case may be related as unknown objects were
observed several hours earlier by three witnesses only 20 miles
away from Marietta in Tucker, GA.  One of the witnesses is
MUFONGA Investigator David Brown of Norcross.  David reports
that he was at the home of his fianc about 10:15 PM.  As his
habit, he always glances skyward, and he noticed a bright round
object lit with multicolored lights, about the size of a dime at
arm's length.  Binoculars revealed a nearby second object, but
not as profusely lit.  The objects moved slowly down behind the
trees to the southwest.  David felt these were not normal
aircraft, helicopters or any type of celestial bodies.  He is
probing further into this event and having the other witnesses
to prepare sketches independent of his own.  Investigations
continue.  Thanks to Tom Sheets, SD-MUFONGA, ISUR Board Member.


GEORGIA SIGHTINGS IGNORED BY CONGRESSMAN

Investigator John Thompson writes, "There is a prominent
congressman in Georgia who is well aware of the hundreds of UFO
sightings that have occurred in Georgia in the last five years.
This same congressman has a trusted friend who has seen UFOs and
let the congressman know about them in detail.  Yet, the
congressman seemingly has no interest in UFOs and associated
phenomenon.  MUFON of Georgia has met with this same congressman
and presented copies of UFO investigations done in his district,
including one with his close confident.  In an unrelated case, a
photo of a UFO and its positive analysis was presented to the
congressman.  The congressman has acknowledged to MUFON in
private that he knows the esteem retired law-enforcement officer
who saw this UFO and supplied the photo to MUFON.  This same
photo was examined by an off-duty FBI photo analyst who declared
it a genuine unknown.  It is a hard road UFO investigators must
pave.  Fifty years of tireless labor still have not lanced the
fear of the "giggle factor."  Nothing, even trusted and
well-respected individuals a congressman acknowledges as his
equal, can induce America's political leaders to consider that
an unknown alien intelligence is toying with mankind's
evolution.

There is no genuine overt interest or displays of "Profiles in
Courage" by our congressional representatives regarding UFOs.
Instead, the public acknowledgment of UFOs by our elected
leaders is so low it has to be wondered if an invasion were
announced by, the media if any would have the courage to take
immediate action to protect America.  Make no mistake about it:
"Aliens are here and they are doing more than just 'scooting'
around."  With no proof that our reality and current technology
can decipher, millions of sightings and covert abductions point
to a more dangerous and subtle invasion.  They appear to be
shaping man's destiny and our culture as it suits the alien
intelligence for its own sinister purposes.  Millions are not
wrong on what they believe they are seeing or experiencing.
With every congressional representative ignoring fifty years of
opinion polls that consistently show approximately half of
America believing UFOs are visiting earth, how is it not a
single representative will explore the possibility that an alien
intelligence is here?  Why is it that seemingly not one Democrat
or Republican statesman loses sleep over the security threat to
America posed by these hourly sightings and abductions?  How
cannot one singular leader entertain the possibility that an
interdimensional species of unknown origin is undermining the
greatest country on earth and possibly imperiling the survival
of the human race?

A giant among willy-nilly, yes-Representatives needs to stand
forth; such a leader could be the Georgia congressman who cares
about the security and welfare of the United States.  If so, he
must act quick as time is not on man's side.  Abductions are the
dark heart of the threat to explore and hold public hearings on.
The rest is only distractions and tricks.  Half a century of
misconceptions and fool's errands, that only offers proof that
is not proof.  THEY are establishing CONTROL as we squabble over
the details of our defeat.  Thanks to John Thompson.

Editor's Note: In the past, there have been a few politicians
with the courage to discuss the investigation of UFOs.  These
were Governors Carter and Reagan, and Congressman Steven Schiff
and Gerald Ford.  None of their careers were hurt when they
stood up for investigating UFOs.  We can make a good case that
their concern for the their voters helped their careers.  For
example, House Minority Leader Gerald Ford on March 25, 1966,
proposed to Congress that they investigate the rash of reported
sightings of unidentified flying objects in Michigan and other
parts of the country.  Ford said he believed a congressional
inquiry would be worthwhile because the American people are
becoming alarmed by the UFO stories.


LOUISIANA ABDUCTION?

CENTRAL -- Allen H. writes, "I wanted to tell someone about this
that would believe me."  Here is my story- I was driving from a
friend's house late one night; it is in this small town called
Central.  It is outside of Baton Rouge, LA.  There are 3 or 4
roads into Central from Baton Rouge and woods surround all of
them.  Well, I was driving home at 2:15 AM, when my car radio
got a lot of static on it and my pager started going wild.  Then
there was a bright light.  Next thing I know it is 3:30 AM and
my car lights were still on but the engine was dead.  I lost an
hour and fifteen minutes.  Now this trip only takes about thirty
minutes to make.  I do not know what happened.  This happened
about six months ago.  Recently I have had these bed looking at
me but I cannot move or yell.  And the whole time my wife is in
the bed sleeping.  I think it is a dream, but I am not so sure
anymore.  My wife thinks I am too stressed out.  But I am not.
I am scared.  Thanks to: Allen H. allanbon@bellsouth.net.


LAKE MICHIGAN HAS FREQUENT SIGHTINGS

MUSKEGON -- Paul Willison reports that I was having our normal
lunchtime get together with coworkers.  I brought up the subject
of UFOs just to see what the response would be and was surprised
to find that four out of seven at the table reported very
unusual sightings.  The most interesting one was reported by a
coworker who often goes to the shore of Lake Michigan to watch
UFOs.  This happens regularly, and he says that anyone with an
evening or two to spend on the coast near Grand Haven, or
Muskegon, Michigan should see the same thing.  He says that he
and some friends will sit on the 250 feet high bluffs
overlooking the lake that gives them an awesome, unimpeded view
to the west.  He says that he will sometimes see 20 or more
strange things in an evening; often they are lights that travel
in formation, and are low to the water or horizon, but can
suddenly shoot up at tremendous speed.  He also sees lights
travel the entire visible breath of the horizon at tremendous
speed, traversing the entire horizon from south to north in two
or three seconds.  These UFOs are not uncommon and several other
members of the lunch party said they had seen similar things,
but had not reported them.  I did gather that these objects are
not often seen in the immediate vicinity of major cities or
towns, but were common sights almost anywhere along the lake
that was sparsely populated, which is still the majority of the
lake shore.  I think I will take my video camera, and spend a
few evenings over at the dunes seeing what I can see!  Thanks to
PaulWillison@webtv.net and Skywatch International Inc.


ILLINOIS. HUGE HOVERING CRAFT REPORTED

WOOD DALE -- On April 25, 2000, the witness went to his car in
the company parking lot after work, and saw airplanes descending
in flight patterns toward Chicago O'Hare National Airport.  I
entered my car and drove west which was perpendicular to where
planes descend very low toward the runways.  As I drove, I
turned to view an extremely huge aircraft that was very low to
the ground and only a couple of blocks up. (2000 feet)  It was
much, much larger than a 747 but looked man-made.  What caught
my attention was that it was not moving.  It seemed to be fixed
in one position almost as if it was some kind of 'platform'.  It
was well lit and was slowly rotating.  It was shaped similar to
a very thin fuselage with very long wings.  I don't remember
seeing any engines.  I slowed my driving, but didn't stop and
finally the aircraft went out of view.  I definitely felt I had
seen something futuristic, but it did not seem to be a
spacecraft.  It looked as if it was some kind of a huge bomber
or observation vehicle.  And, again, it didn't move and it made
no sounds.  I think its multicolored lights even cast a shadow
on the homes below.  Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC
www.ufocenter.com.


MISSOURI UFO CAUGHT ON INFRARED VIDEO

KANSAS CITY -- John Colaw the Kansas Director of Skywatch
International writes, "I just had a great sighting, along with
seven other witnesses.  It was 9:15 PM when my daughter called
me out to look at something in the sky.  My wife Charla said "Oh
my God, come out and look at this. I don't believe it."  I went
outside and west of my house, about 40 degrees above the
horizon, was what looked like a pulsing star.  It was changing
brilliant colors.  Red, blue, white, and yellow seemed to
dominate. It changed color rapidly, but pulsed at a slower
frequency.  It was pulsating and changing colors.  It appeared
to be fat for a star, but otherwise you could not tell size,
because distance was uncertain.  It did not appear to be in
space, it was in the sky.  It was very weird to be able to watch
it for so long.   A friend who was visiting happened to have a
nice SONY Handy cam with Night Shot infrared and 72x digital
zoom.  We got some great footage of it, first without the
infrared.  We got a good 25 minutes of it.  Then we chased it in
the car, but it was obviously a few miles away at least.  But
the best part was when we switched it to Night Shot Infrared.
The object was too far away too be painted by the camera.  What
we shot was the infrared signature of the object, and it really
is spectacular.  It looks like a pulsing fog, with a bright
triangular nucleus that is spinning rapidly.  Like a cell made
of light with a spinning triangle for a nucleus.  I will get the
video uploaded to the Internet and post it.  I made sure to get
perspective shots of the trees and streetlights in the
foreground.  Thanks to John Colaw and
cliff@skywatch-international.org (Cliff Capers) Skywatch
International.


ARKANSAS SIGHTINGS

Lamar James was assigned to write a story on Jim Rowell, a
recently retired Arkansas State police lieutenant.  He related a
UFO story that happened to him in the early 1950s when he was
driving out of East Camden, Arkansas where the state police
academy is located.  It was early in the morning and fog was
hanging close to the ground on a lone stretch of highway.  Jim
said his truck's radio suddenly died, quickly followed by the
engine.  While he was trying to restart the truck, a red glowing
object came out of the mist toward him.  It passed overhead then
out of sight.  When he tried again to restart the truck, this
time it cooperated.  He asked me what I thought about what he
told me.  "Sounds like a UFO," I told him.  He believed it to be
a government craft, pointing out that several defense
contractors have facilities in East Camden.  The Patriot missile
system of Gulf War fame was manufactured there.  Jim related
another story where he saw a high-flying aircraft trailing an
orange cloud.  Was it tricks of lighting or something
extraterrestrial?  I do not know, but again he had a more
conventional explanation.  He believed it to be a NASA craft.
Jim was dying of cancer and he knew it.  He had no reason to lie
to me.  He had an amazing story to tell and wanted someone to
know about the encounter before he died.  Thanks to Lamar James
ljames@uaex.edu and Robert M. Collins


IDAHO FLYING WING SPOTTED

BOISE - Idaho State MUFON Director, Ike Bishop reports that, "I
got my first look at the flying wedge (Wing) tonight over Boise.
I am not sure what the Air Force calls it, but I knew they were
working on it.  It came from the northeast probably from
Malstrom AFB and went south making an 'S' shaped pattern as it
flew over.  It was at 9:00 PM and the sun reflected off its
bottom, or we would have missed it.  I was with a Real Estate
client and she looked up and said, " Wow, look at that!"  The
craft was silver in color, reflecting an orange glow from the
setting sun.  It was huge and very noisy, and left two vapor
trails, which did not touch.  The noise was different from a
conventional craft.  The pilot seemed to be 'testing' it as it
flew a strange pattern, very gradual turns first to the south,
then to the west, south again and into north central Nevada
perhaps to Area 51?  The craft appeared to be at about 25,000
feet but still looked huge and 'bulky'.  Thanks to Dennis Gramm
and Ike Bishop


CALIFORNIA LIGHT SHOW OVER THE DESERT

PALMDALE -- Bill Hamilton writes "I have seen some strange
things in the sky over the years and May 2, 2000, was no
exception."  I was just emerging from Von's market on Palmdale
Boulelvard at about 8:59 PM crossing the parking lot to my car
when I looked at the sky northeast and saw a bright light
"switch on" followed quickly by 2 more so 3 lights in a row were
seen.  I thought this might be an aircraft on approach to USAF's
Plant 42 in Palmdale when suddenly the 3 lights became 7 or 8 in
a long string and then blinked off.  In rapid succession 3, more
lights came on, blinked off and then 3 more in another position.
Then all these blinking lights went off!  These did not appear
to be aircraft headlights and certainly not flares, but I could
not help wondering if it was a military exercise or a UFO.  If
anyone else has seen this display in the Antelope Valley,
California, please let me know.  Thanks to: Bill Hamilton
Executive Director Skywatch International, Inc.  Website:
http://home.earthlink.net/~skywatcher22


EIGHT NEW PLANETS FOUND, LATEST TOTAL IS 43 PLANETS

The European Southern Observatory (ESO) announced May 4, 2000,
that eight new very low-mass companions to solar-type stars have
been discovered at La Silla.  The intensive and exciting hunt
for planets around other stars ("exoplanets") is continuing with
great success in both hemispheres. A team of astronomers of the
Geneva Observatory are announcing the discovery of no less than
eight new, very-low mass companions to solar- type stars.  The
masses of these objects range from less than that of planet
Saturn to about 15 times that of Jupiter.  The new results were
obtained by means of high-precision radial-velocity measurements
with the CORALIE spectrometer at the Swiss 1.2-m Leonhard Euler
telescope at the ESO La Silla Observatory.

This observational method is based on the detection of changes
in the velocity of the central star, due to the changing
direction of the gravitational pull from an (unseen) exoplanet
as it orbits the star.  The evaluation of the measured velocity
variations allows to deduce the planet's orbit, in particular
the period and the distance from the star, as well as a minimum
mass.  The characteristics of the new objects are quite diverse.
While six of them are most likely bona-fide exoplanets, two are
apparently very low-mass brown-dwarfs (objects of sub-stellar
mass without a nuclear energy source in their interior).  From
the first discovery of an exoplanet around the star 51 Pegasi in
1995 by Michel Mayor and Didier Queloz of the present team, up
to now, a total of 43 low-mass companions to solar-type stars
have been detected with minimum masses less than 15 Jupiter
masses.  Thanks to Alien Astronomer - Hi-Tech/Secret Projects.
http://obswww.unige.ch/~udry/planet/planet.html


ENGLAND UFO SIGHTINGS IN LINCOLNSHIRE

LINCOLNSHIRE -- Gerry @ Far Shores reports, "I've compiled the
following from reports published in The Grimsby Evening
Telegraph, concerning intense UFO activity.  Forty-year-old
Elaine King, of Tetney Lock near Lincolnshire, believes that she
was transported from her bed to an alien spacecraft that was
constructed entirely of a steel-like material.  It happened at
09:30 hours on March 24, 2000.  Miss King explained: "I was in
bed and felt myself getting weaker and weaker, like I was
collapsing.  The next thing I knew, I was in this corridor."
While on board the alien ship she opened a door and was shocked
to find a human male "spread-eagled" on a table, while aliens
"peeled back his skin to look at his insides."  "There was a
female being, who was milky white and wearing some sort of wig,
I think it was to try and make her look less frightening, and
more human.  She communicated to me, telling me not to worry
about my cats and dog, that they would be looked after.  She did
not speak to me in words, just put these thoughts in my head.
"She didn't scare me, I think she was trying to help," said Miss
King.  She thought she was going to die, but the next thing he
knew she was back in her bed and only eleven-and-a-half minutes
had passed.  "I was so shocked to be back, I thought I was gone
for good," she said.  Miss King said she knows people will
perceive her as "mad" but she honestly believes it was an
abduction attempt.  She claims to have had many "alien"
encounters.

Miss King's "abduction" experience happened the same day a
fruiterer from Grimsby's Freeman Street saw what he believes was
a UFO hovering in the sky above Willingham Street at 14:00
hours.  Thirty-seven-year-old Tony Kelsey claimed he saw a pure
white unearthly object still in the sky.  Some six hours after
this latest event at 20:00 hours eleven-year-old Reshi Kumar was
sat in the back of his father's car stuck in traffic when he
noticed "a really bright round light in the sky.  It was
hovering then it dropped steeply and left a white line behind
it.  ''One minute it was there, the next it was gone, it was
really weird,'' explained Reshi who does not believe in aliens
-- despite being an avid X-Files follower.  Following newspaper
reports of the above incidents, The Grimsby Evening Telegraph
was flooded with callers that included writer Tony Downing who
claims to have seen at least nine UFOs in the last 25 years, all
above Grimsby.  One was a dark shape, which made no sound and
emitted a beam of light at Mr. Downing and his wife before
vanishing, he claims.

Cliff and Margaret Blyth, of Corn Mews, Cleethorpes, got the
shock of their lives when an unidentified red ball hurtled
towards their house and passed through Mr. Blyth's body.  "I saw
a two-inch red ball of fire come through the window and pass
through my husband's chest.  We immediately lifted his shirt to
see if it had left a mark, but there was nothing there."  Mr.
Blyth (68) said: "I'm too old to be scared, it didn't hurt but
we both saw it and my wife never drinks."  A grandmother from
Humberston who first saw a UFO 40 years ago thought her husband
was joking when he claimed to have seen a UFO in the form of a
giant silver cigar.  The couple was leaving the Leas of Waltham
School at 19:30 hours, when John Ramsden spotted something
spooky on April 6.  Dorothy Ramsden, who saw a UFO in Daubney
Street 40 years ago, said: "We were just about to get into the
car when my husband said he'd seen an UFO.  Then I saw this
lovely silver object with a pinky glow hovering in the sky."
John Ramsden, a skeptic, said: "It was fascinating, we just
stared at it in amazement at the hovering UFO for around six
minutes."  Elaine Reid's husband thought she was "cuckoo" after
she told him she had seen a "bright light traveling really
slowly across the sky when she put her washing out April 7.
Elaine described the object as "round and as big as an aerosol."
Thanks to Gerry @ Far Shores| www.farshore.force9.co.uk


CIA TOP SECRET MJ-12 DIRECTIVE DRAFT MEMO

Robert Collins writes, "The draft carbon memo (no date) below is
page one with eight tabs (not shown) marked as TOP SECRET/MJ-12
leaked to Tim Cooper in August of 1999."  The envelope was
postmarked McLean, Virginia.  As of this date the time frame
circa 1961, watermark and onionskin paper have been
authenticated by Tim Cooper & Wood Enterprises composed of Bob
and Ryan Wood.  See
http://home.earthlink.net/~rcollins633/reports/mj12_directive_me
mo.htm &
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/Sanctuary_Of_The_Birds.htm
for updates and reports.


SPECIAL OFFER

Special offer for readers of "Filers Files" Camelot Computers is
offering a one year free domain name with a year of web hosting.
Prices for hosting start as low as $9.99 a month.  Camelot can
get your site off the drawing board.  Visit them at
www.camelotcomputers.com or contact Webmaster.  Website dealing
with the paranormal is our specialty.  Chuck Warren, Camelot
Computers, Web Development Director,  www.camolotcomputers.com

SPACE SHUTTLE FOOTAGE: There is lots of talk about UFOs seen
from the space shuttle.  Decide for yourself, Jeff Chandler has
put together raw video footage of the NASA downloads.  Learn
exactly what is ice crystals and camera smudges?  You can decide
for yourself.  Jeff gives pointers on how to look for UFOs
versus the standard excuses.  This is raw footage but well worth
seeing.  Only $25.00.

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available and
data on their propulsion systems by US Navy Commander Graham
Bethune.. $10.00. Send check or money order to G. Filer 222
Jackson Road, Medford, New Jersey 08055

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com.  Mention I
recommended you for membership.  Filer's Files is Copyrighted
2000 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
items from the Files on their Web Sites provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared.  Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com.  Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name.  Please state if you wish
to keep your name, address, or story confidential.









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                 Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview

From: Ron Decker <decker@wtez.net>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 17:45:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:35:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview


 >From UFO UpDates - Toronto
 >-------------------------------------
 >Discovery Channel - Canada
 >Sunday, April 30th, 2000 - 12:00 Noon
 >'Discovery Connection'
 >Closed Captioning Capture
 >-------------------------------------

 > [Shermer was booked to help promote the Discovery Channel's
 >  series 'Into The Unknown' which aired the week of April 30 -
 >  May 5, 2000. --ebk]

 >Jay Ingram - Host

 >Dr. Michael Shermer - Director of the Skeptics Society

 >Ingram:  There's no doubt that many people are willing to
 >         believe in things that defy our scientific
 >         understanding of the world.

 >         Here today to help us get at the nature of this belief
 >         is Dr. Michael Shermer. He's director of the Skeptics
 >         Society and publisher of 'Skeptic' magazine.

Dear List,

IMHO, all that distinguishes Dr. Shermer from the snake
handlers/poison drinkers in the hollers and hills of Tennessee
and elsewhere are the snakes and the poison.

If there ever were 'true believers' it's folks like Shermer and
his ilk.  These folks are so caught up in their belief that
nothing exists outside the material that they don't realize
they've bought into something that is as unproved as the belief
systems Shermer (et al) deride.  What's really annoying is the
arrogance of these folks; their condescension is grating to the
extreme.  These guys really don't know everything.

I don't think that the subject of God's existence/non-existence
is germane to the list, but these guys inevitably bring it up
and compare religion and paranormal experiences with
schizophrenia and other mental disorders.  What utter crap! It
never dawns on the Shermers of this world that some of this
stuff could be genuine.  Why?  Refer to paragraph two of this
note.

And why do the producers of these television programs
continually drag up these skeptics?  Aren't there any
level-headed scientists out there?  Randi has ruined more than
one program I've watched with his idiotic 'refutations' of
paranormal experience.  I make it a rule that any program
featuring James Randi as a bona fide skeptic will not have me as
a viewer.

What I would like to ask the Shermers is this: if his paradigm
of strict materialism is correct, then what difference does it
make what anyone believes?

Honestly, I don't know why this post has set me off, but it did.

I do think that there's should be discussion here regarding the
nature of reality and so forth.  However, a pointed discussion
inevitably falls to a discussion of religion which I doubt our
good moderator would tolerate.  Besides, yahoos like Shermer,
Randi (shudder) and others would raise my blood pressure beyond
what is healthy.

Best regards,

Ron Decker







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                        WBAI Radio 'UFO Desk' Special

From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 00:30:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:21:07 -0400
Subject: WBAI Radio 'UFO Desk' Special


All,

Wednesday evening 10:00 p.m. NY time WBAI Radio presents a two
hour special program on the abduction phenomena.

On the phone from England, Ms. Ann Andrews, mother, homemaker.
She and her son Jason have lifelong experiences with abduction
and other strange phenomena as described in her book,
'Abduction: The True Story Of An Alien Abduction.

Our second guest will be Ms. Heidi Hollis of Milwaukee
Wisconsin. Ms. Hollis also claims life long alien abduction,
as well as a familiar named Caft. Ms. Hollis' explorations go
into the inner-world as well as the outer-world. Please visit
www.ufo2u.com for Ms. Hollis' thoughts and experiences.

If time permits we go into the astounding Milab experiences they
may have had.

UFO Desk is heard world-wide thanks to porus.com - listen to
live web cast at UFO Desk.

Joining me in studio will be Ms. Susan Gordon along with Author
Peter Robbins on the phone.

Hope you can listen in and if you can please donate some dollars
to listener sponsored non-commercial WBAI NY

Paul Williams

www.anomalies.net/~ufodesk
ICQ 32519151








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                 Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:47:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:32:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview


 >Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 17:45:57 -0500
 >From: Ron Decker <decker@wtez.net>
 >Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Hello, All, Ron,

 >>From UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >>-------------------------------------
 >>Discovery Channel - Canada
 >>Sunday, April 30th, 2000 - 12:00 Noon
 >>'Discovery Connection'
 >>Closed Captioning Capture
 >>-------------------------------------

 >>[Shermer was booked to help promote the Discovery Channel's
 >> series 'Into The Unknown' which aired the week of April 30 -
 >> May 5, 2000. --ebk]

 >>Jay Ingram - Host

 >>Dr. Michael Shermer - Director of the Skeptics Society

 >>Ingram:  There's no doubt that many people are willing to
 >>        believe in things that defy our scientific
 >>        understanding of the world.

 >>        Here today to help us get at the nature of this belief
 >>        is Dr. Michael Shermer. He's director of the Skeptics
 >>        Society and publisher of 'Skeptic' magazine.

 >Dear List,

 >IMHO, all that distinguishes Dr. Shermer from the snake
 >handlers/poison drinkers in the hollers and hills of Tennessee
 >and elsewhere are the snakes and the poison.

Lest we forget-snake oil salemen too...

 >If there ever were 'true believers' it's folks like Shermer and
 >his ilk. These folks are so caught up in their belief that
 >nothing exists outside the material that they don't realize
 >they've bought into something that is as unproved as the belief
 >systems Shermer (et al) deride.  What's really annoying is the
 >arrogance of these folks; their condescension is grating to the
 >extreme. These guys really don't know everything.

 >I don't think that the subject of God's existence/non-existence
 >is germane to the list, but these guys inevitably bring it up
 >and compare religion and paranormal experiences with
 >schizophrenia and other mental disorders. What utter crap! It
 >never dawns on the Shermers of this world that some of this
 >stuff could be genuine.  Why?  Refer to paragraph two of this
 >note.

As one who believes in the exsistance of a Personal and Infinite
God (and by the by, not one who belives that the Planet is a
mere 6000 years old). I am also amazed at the Fundementalist
belief of those who don't?can't ? won't believe empirical
results.

Shermer's explained abuction experience was proof enough. "Road
fatiuge" - on a bike trip yet. (motor or pedal?)

 >And why do the producers of these television programs
 >continually drag up these skeptics?  Aren't there any
 >level-headed scientists out there?  Randi has ruined more than
 >one program I've watched with his idiotic 'refutations' of
 >paranormal experience. I make it a rule that any program
 >featuring James Randi as a bona fide skeptic will not have me >as a viewer.

Well, this is the influnece of Fallen Creatures - Us - we are
the ones who bulid up the idea that we are the pinnicale of
Creation itself by itself, no one else is allowed - even the
Creator-Me, Mine My Universe, (however small and boxlike)
sharing - Ha! with no one.

 >What I would like to ask the Shermers is this: if his paradigm
 >of strict materialism is correct, then what difference does it
 >make what anyone believes?

 >Honestly, I don't know why this post has set me off, but it >did.

 >I do think that there's should be discussion here regarding the
 >nature of reality and so forth. However, a pointed discussion
 >inevitably falls to a discussion of religion which I doubt our
 >good moderator would tolerate. Besides, yahoos like Shermer,
 >Randi (shudder) and others would raise my blood pressure beyond
 >what is healthy.

I have an interest in Steam Locomotives. Have for years. I am
old enough to rememeber the Union Pacific Challengers, 4-6-6-4
wheel arrangement, as I recall. Now, I would ask Mr. Shermer,
"Do you believe in Steam Locomotives?" If he said "Yes", I would
reply, "Prove it."

Yes I know there is live steam - but Video? So What? Doesn't
prove a thing. Actual Photos? Balderdash! Just because there is
a large mettallic object (say a Pennsy Duplex,) doesn't mean it
wasn't faked! Prove it.

How about touching one? I've been in the cab of U.P.'s 844 ,
back in the 70's (what a magnificent beast! If I was offered a
life as an Engineeer on her or a "Big Boy" or a Space Shuttle
Command Pilot I'd have to think about it.) But, was I really
there? Prove it. "No photos", you say? Well, what about my Uncle
Breen, he was the fireman on the thing? Oh, he is dead ? can't
give testimony...Oh, never mind.

I hope I've have shed light into the mind of the 'True Believer'
mind-set - Skeptical thought as promoted by Shermer/Klass et.
al. Now there is room for Skeptical Thought, but when the
obvious is reality.....

GT McCoy










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                 Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview

From: Tim D. Brigham <Dellamorte@mad.scientist.com>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 07:49:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:04:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview


 >Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 17:45:57 -0500
 >From: Ron Decker <decker@wtez.net>
 >Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >>Dr. Michael Shermer - Director of the Skeptics Society

 >>Ingram: There's no doubt that many people are willing to
 >>        believe in things that defy our scientific
 >>        understanding of the world.

 >>        Here today to help us get at the nature of this belief
 >>        is Dr. Michael Shermer. He's director of the Skeptics
 >>        Society and publisher of 'Skeptic' magazine.

 >Dear List,

 >IMHO, all that distinguishes Dr. Shermer from the snake
 >handlers/poison drinkers in the hollers and hills of Tennessee
 >and elsewhere are the snakes and the poison.

 >If there ever were 'true believers' it's folks like Shermer and
 >his ilk. These folks are so caught up in their belief that
 >nothing exists outside the material that they don't realize
 >they've bought into something that is as unproved as the belief
 >systems Shermer (et al) deride.  What's really annoying is the
 >arrogance of these folks; their condescension is grating to the
 >extreme. These guys really don't know everything.

Hi Ron,

Compared to the dogma pushed by some of the mind police types
(whose stupid acronyms shall not bogg down my spellchecker once
again) I actually think Shermer is a bit more tolerable... not
that that's saying much. I thought he came across decently, as
much as anyone who has made it their primary goal to preserve the status quo can
 at least.

The Amazin' Randi! types aren't really good for much, even
public service wise in terms of promoting healthy skepticism,
and I think most of us realize that. Once in a blue-moon, when
I run into someone who believes in telephone psychics or
something of that nature, Randi's stuff might be useful, but do
most folks _really_ need someone to point out the obvious garbage?

It's the stuff you don't have to call a 900 number for which is
the real mystery, and by debunking the obvious crap you aren't
really doing anything very useful.

But it's a common tactic. Most of the truly mysterious stuff is
ignored so True Non-believers can go on TV and say "See, because
Darla the tarot reader _can't_ tell the future, there _are_ no
mysteries, anywhere." Yeah, right.

You are right of course re. the sound-bite problem. There's no
time in the media for the middle of the road or maybes, they
wanna see two idiots screaming at each other about how aliens
are either hallucinations or sperm nappers from planet X. Only
the two most extreme, and least plausible, IMO, opinions which
can be summed up with a catch phrase are welcome, cause only the
easily digestible stuff can keep 'em glued.

Best,

Tim









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   May > May 9

              Re: Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 10:06:10 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 12:14:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa


 >Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:31:09 -0400
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: Hot Metal Balls Fall From Sky In South Africa
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>,

 >South Africa alerts NASA as large metal balls fall from sky
 >By Christopher Munnion in Johannesburg

<snip>

 >A police spokesman said: "The witnesses said it was white hot
 >when it landed. It appears to be solid iron and there is a
 >section that contains bolts. I don't know what it could be." The
 >second, larger ball, which fell at Durbanville, was oval, up to
 >5ft long and weighed about 110lb. Farm workers again reported
 >hearing two loud bangs like gunshots just before it landed.

 >Astronomers said the objects could be part of a decaying
 >satellite. Nasa had predicted that parts of a Pegasus satellite
 >would fall to earth, they said.

Why, everybody just knows how unreliable witness testimony is,
why this guys were seeing a combination of weather balloons,
venus and a mirage...... :)

Cheers,

Robert






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                 Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:04:51 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:28:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview


 >Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:47:03 -0700
 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 17:45:57 -0500
 >>From: Ron Decker <decker@wtez.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>



 >Hello, All, Ron,

 >>>From UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >>>-------------------------------------
 >>>Discovery Channel - Canada
 >>>Sunday, April 30th, 2000 - 12:00 Noon
 >>>'Discovery Connection'
 >>>Closed Captioning Capture
 >>>-------------------------------------

 >>>[Shermer was booked to help promote the Discovery Channel's
 >>>series 'Into The Unknown' which aired the week of April 30 -
 >>>May 5, 2000. --ebk]

 >>>Jay Ingram - Host
 >
 >>>Dr. Michael Shermer - Director of the Skeptics Society

<snip>

 >I have an interest in Steam Locomotives. Have for years. I am
 >old enough to rememeber the Union Pacific Challengers, 4-6-6-4
 >wheel arrangement, as I recall. Now, I would ask Mr. Shermer,
 >"Do you believe in Steam Locomotives?" If he said "Yes", I would
 >reply, "Prove it."

 >Yes I know there is live steam - but Video? So What? Doesn't
 >prove a thing. Actual Photos? Balderdash! Just because there is
 >a large mettallic object (say a Pennsy Duplex,) doesn't mean it
 >wasn't faked! Prove it.

 >How about touching one? I've been in the cab of U.P.'s 844 ,
 >back in the 70's (what a magnificent beast! If I was offered a
 >life as an Engineeer on her or a "Big Boy" or a Space Shuttle
 >Command Pilot I'd have to think about it.) But, was I really
 >there? Prove it. "No photos", you say? Well, what about my Uncle
 >Breen, he was the fireman on the thing? Oh, he is dead ? can't
 >give testimony...Oh, never mind.

 >I hope I've have shed light into the mind of the 'True Believer'
 >mind-set - Skeptical thought as promoted by Shermer/Klass et.
 >al. Now there is room for Skeptical Thought, but when the
 >obvious is reality.....

Hello GT and all,

Re your locomotives and proof. I get your meaning. But try this
one. Prove that the Appolo astronauts went to the Moon.

Don






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                 Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 05:51:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:23:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview


 >Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:04:51 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:47:03 -0700
 >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 17:45:57 -0500
 >>>From: Ron Decker <decker@wtez.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Hello, All, Ron,

 >>>>From UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >>>>-------------------------------------
 >>>>Discovery Channel - Canada
 >>>>Sunday, April 30th, 2000 - 12:00 Noon
 >>>>'Discovery Connection'
 >>>>Closed Captioning Capture
 >>>>-------------------------------------

 >>>>[Shermer was booked to help promote the Discovery Channel's
 >>>>series 'Into The Unknown' which aired the week of April 30 -
 >>>>May 5, 2000. --ebk]

 >>>>Jay Ingram - Host

 >>>>Dr. Michael Shermer - Director of the Skeptics Society

 ><snip>

 >>I have an interest in Steam Locomotives. Have for years. I am
 >>old enough to rememeber the Union Pacific Challengers, 4-6-6-4
 >>wheel arrangement, as I recall. Now, I would ask Mr. Shermer,
 >>"Do you believe in Steam Locomotives?" If he said "Yes", I would
 >>reply, "Prove it."

<snip>


 >Re your locomotives and proof. I get your meaning. But try this
 >one. Prove that the Appolo astronauts went to the Moon.

 >Don


Further -- prove that our scientists, historians, theologians,
newspersons, elected officials, doctors of education, and
community leaders have been unstintingly and unfailingly
forthcoming regarding the subject of UFOs. Look for _that_ proof
and find, perhaps, only proof to the contrary.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.alienview.com
                  **Updated All the TIME**
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at a
skepti-feebroid stake.






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   May > May 10

                      TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.9.00

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:12:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:25:15 -0400
Subject: TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.9.00



TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

May 9, 2000

_____________________________



WEEKLY BRIEFING
5.9.00


More questions this week regarding the search for life in space,
new possible evidence that it may be commonplace indeed, and a
reanalysis of old Viking lander data from Mars in the 1970s that
perhaps primitive life was found there after all. Also some new
cameo shots of asteroids, including Kleopatra, whose odd
elongated shape looks like nothing else except a huge floating
dog bone out in deep space. Perhaps the next one will look like
Fido?

These and other reports below...


COMPLEX 'TAR-LIKE' ORGANIC MOLECULES FOUND 150 MILLION MILES
FROM EARTH
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/2000/05/03/timfgneur02005.html

MYSTERY SURROUNDING MARTIAN ORGANIC MATTER DEEPENS
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0005/02mars/index.html

RADAR IMAGES OF GIANT 'DOG BONE-SHAPED' KLEOPATRA ASTEROID
RELEASED BY NASA
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/space/05/05/kleopatra/index.html

NEW 'LOW ORBIT' PHOTOS OF EROS ASTEROID
http://near.jhuapl.edu/iod/20000503/index.html

IO'S VOLCANOES SPLATTER DUST INTO THE SOLAR SYSTEM
http://persweb.direct.ca/iodust.html

ASTRONOMERS DETECT UNIVERSE'S MISSING HYDROGEN
http://CNN.com/2000/TECH/space/05/04/missingmatter.ap/index.html

ASTRONOMERS DETAIL LOW-COST PLANETARY MISSIONS
http://persweb.direct.ca/lowcost.html

PHYSICISTS: EARTH WEIGHS LESS THAN PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT
http://CNN.com/2000/TECH/space/05/01/earth.weight.ap/index.html

MYSTERY METAL BALLS FALL FROM SKY IN SOUTH AFRICA
http://persweb.direct.ca/skyballs.html

DISPOSING OF CARBON DIOXIDE TO FIGHT GLOBAL WARMING
http://CNN.com/2000/NATURE/05/01/trapthatgas.ap/index.html

THE SHAPE OF PCs TO COME
http://CNN.com/2000/TECH/computing/05/05/pc.shape.idg/index.html


_____________________________


See also the TMP web site for complete listings of news stories,
reports and related information and links:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing weekly briefings of the latest relevant news
stories and reports, as well as information and updates on
TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul Anderson
and published by TMP, and is available free by subscription; to
be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including "subscribe TMP News" or "unsubscribe TMP News" and
e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000








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                 Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview

From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:27:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:33:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview


 >Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:04:51 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Hello GT and all,

 >Re your locomotives and proof. I get your meaning. But try this
 >one. Prove that the Appolo astronauts went to the Moon.

 >Don

OK - I'll take that challenge.

1 - I saw the Saturn V lift off with my own eyes. Pretty big
rocket if you just want to do a fake earth orbit thing. But I'll
concede the point that it doesn't prove anything.

2 - I saw the TLI burn with my own eyes, and followed it through
my scope. We sent something out of earth orbit to the moon (a
fact that can be independently verified - some amateur
astronomers were able to independently calculate the orbital
elements of the spacecraft from their own observations).

3 - I was fortunate to be able to assist a team that was
measuring the distance to the moon by bouncing lasers off
reflectors placed on the lunar surface by Armstrong and Aldrin.
The reflectors became available only after placement by the
Apollo astronauts, and were precisely in the area specified. I
suppose it could be argued that they were set there by a robotic
probe, but if you have the technology to land with that degree
of precision, you can certainly send men to the moon.

4 - I know folks who worked the tracking stations. Conversations
and telemetry were certainly originating from an object going to
the moon (again, I suppose you could argue it was some sort of
"repeater").

5 - Getting to the moon was not a particularly difficult
problem - the appropriate level of technology either existed or
could be developed by a crash r&d program.

6 - There is absolutely no credible evidence (other than that
offered by individuals who do not understand photography or the
physics of the behavior of objects in one-sixth gee), that the
Apollo astronauts did NOT go to the moon.

7 - As a Purdue Alum, I've met nearly all the Apollo astronauts.
For ex-fighter jocks, they are incredibly good actors if they
are lying.

8 - The "no-go" hypothesis requires a conspiracy on a massive
scale. Even small conspiracies unravel very quickly because
someone blabs. I know of no credible source, _directly_ involved
with the program who would argue that the landings did not take
place.

Brian







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                 Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview

From: Ron Decker <decker@wtez.net>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 06:45:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:27:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview


 >Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 22:47:03 -0700
 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 17:45:57 -0500
 >>From: Ron Decker <decker@wtez.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>[Shermer was booked to help promote the Discovery Channel's
 >>>series 'Into The Unknown' which aired the week of April 30 -
 >>>May 5, 2000. --ebk]

 >>>Dr. Michael Shermer - Director of the Skeptics Society

 >>>      Here today to help us get at the nature of this belief
 >>>      is Dr. Michael Shermer. He's director of the Skeptics
 >>>      Society and publisher of 'Skeptic' magazine.

 >As one who believes in the exsistance of a Personal and Infinite
 >God (and by the by, not one who belives that the Planet is a
 >mere 6000 years old). I am also amazed at the Fundementalist
 >belief of those who don't?can't ? won't believe empirical
 >results.

Greetings, GT,

The Shermers and the Fundamentalists exhibit the same type of
thinking (or lack thereof). They have a template that explains
reality and if something occurs that doesn't fit that template
then it doesn't really exist, it's a lie, it's mental illness
and on and on. Is it laziness or insecurity?

 >Shermer's explained abuction experience was proof enough. "Road
 >fatiuge" - on a bike trip yet. (motor or pedal?)

Ha, I suppose all those abductees have pushed themselves beyond
the limits of physical endurance, somehow. How else can you
explain the experiences? Surely it's not what's being reported.
Surely not.

<snip>

 >>I do think that there's should be discussion here regarding the
 >>nature of reality and so forth. However, a pointed discussion
 >>inevitably falls to a discussion of religion which I doubt our

 >I have an interest in Steam Locomotives. Have for years. I am
 >old enough to rememeber the Union Pacific Challengers, 4-6-6-4
 >wheel arrangement, as I recall. Now, I would ask Mr. Shermer,
 >"Do you believe in Steam Locomotives?" If he said "Yes", I would
 >reply, "Prove it."

<snip>

Lovely example.

This brings up something else the Shermers toss out all the time
which really gets under my skin: we can't trust our senses.
What lunacy! To Shermer our senses are fouled up when something
paranormal or unusual occurs. But they work just fine when we're
driving a car, flying a plane or flying through space. If he
can't depend on his senses how does Shermer ever get to the
studio where he's tossing out his laughable explanations for
everything?

Best regards,

Ron Decker








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                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 19

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:54:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:16:48 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 19


      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 19
May 11, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

mailto:Masinaigan@aol.com

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


CHUPACABRAS ATTACK
MORE FARMS IN CHILE

      Last week saw another rash of Chupacabra
attacks in Chile.  Eyewitnesses also sighted
two weird humanoid creatures, said to be
Chupacabras, near the city of Concepcion,located
300 kilometers (180 miles) south of Santiago de
Chile, the national capital.
      The new round of Chupacabra incidents began
Wednesday, April 12, 2000 in the small town of
Tucapel, in Bio Bio province just east of Concepcion.
Witnesses reported that "a large bunch of dried
brambles were crushed by a strange luminous
phenomenon."
      On Saturday, April 29, 2000, Jose Ismael Pino, 59,
a farm worker employed at the Esperance Ranch
two kilometers (one mile) east of Huepil, near Tucapel,
had a face-to-face meeting with the Chupacabra.
      Leaving the barn at 8 p.m., Pino explained,
"There was a large bull running wild.  I was walking
along when I saw something, and I thought that was it.
'Hey, damned bull!' I shouted, and then I saw that it
wasn't.  It hardly moved.  It just stood there, looking
at me.  It stood about 1.5 meters (four feet) tall, like
a big monkey, with long clawed arms, enormous
fangs protruding from its mouth, as well as a pair of wings.
I was so scared I turned and ran back for the hounds.
I set them all loose and let them chase after 'The Bird.'
Cachorro (one of the dogs--J.T.) came back with a
bloodstained neck."
      "Pino's boss, Jorge Venegas, owner of the 75-acre
farm, carries a loaded shotgun on his shoulder."
      "Venegas, on his part, lets his employees leave early,
since they are fearful of walking around at night, and he
himself since the night of the luminous phenomena in
Tucapel, has slept with his shotgun beside him."
      "'We don't know what we're dealing with here.  I'm
not so concerned about the attacks on the animals,
but I have two children, 12 years old and 15 years old,
and I'm not going to let anything happen to them.  In
fact, right now I'm going to get a floodlight to see at night,
in case something weird shows up,' explained the planter,
hefting the shotgun to his right shoulder."
     Farms in the Huepil-Tucapel area "were affected by
the alleged predator, which killed four sheep on one farm
and a cow on another."
      However, not everybody believes that the the
Chupacabra is the culprit.  The manager of the Raul Perez
farm told the newspaper Cronica, "Years ago, we had a
(wild) dog problem.  They managed to kill 70 sheep one
single night, but we gave it no further importance at the
time."
      On Tuesday night, May 2, 2000, Carabineros
(Chile's national police--J.T.) from the cuartel (barracks)
in Santa Fe reported that "eight sheep, all of them
pregnant, had been attacked by an unknown animal,
which had left them half-dead, making it necessary to
put them down."
      The attacks were "blamed on wild dogs.  Subofficer
Alviro Valdebenito of the Santa Fe barracks further added
that a characteristic of these dogs is that they are
barkless."
      Lt. Walter Koch of the Huepil Carabineros stated,
"No, there were no reports about it (Chupacabra--J.T.)
whatever.  We don't even have pumas in this sector,
and only in the pre-Cordillera ranges will you find foxes.
The only predator of the type we've had are Siberian
dogs which have feasted on some chickens."
      "Carlos Villalobos, a schoolteacher in Huepil, said,
'I think it's linked to some unknown life-form, possibly alien
in origin, but the authorities take the position of not
acknowledging it, and they are probably very justified, since
a collective panic situation could be unleashed.'"
     The Chupacabra attacks continued without letup.
      On Wednesday, May 3, 2000, "at 1:30 a.m.,
professor Liliana Romero Castillo slept soundly in her
apartment located at Laguna Redonda in Concepcion,
when she was awakened by the barking of the five stray
puppies she had picked up some time earlier."  The
Puppies were living "in the building courtyard with Black,
her large, fierce mastiff."
      "'I crouched and looked through the window.  The
puppies were whining, and Black had cowered against
the wall and was motionless.  I could see the back of
what appeared to be an immense man, standing more than
two meters (6 feet, 8 inches) tall.  The shoulder blades
were split, as if he had wings.  Its attitude (posture--J.T.)
recalled that of a person choking another.  That was my
impression,' said Sra. Romero."
      "Concerned that a crime was taking place in her
garden, she woke her husband, who gave the matter
little attention.  'I'm not getting up,' he said, half-asleep."
      Sra. Romero returned to the window to get another
look at the creature, but by then it was gone.
      "The following day (Thursday, May 4, 2000) Liliana
sent her children out to buy groceries at the local store.
using a shortcut located behind their building.  Upon
their return, they told their mother that they had seen
'a dead dog'" in the alleyway.
      Liliana asked her husband to check, and he returned
saying that a wooly, beige-colored dog was lying on the
ground with two puncture marks in the throat."
      'I don't know if I might be in a suggestive state,'
he said, 'But it had two deep holes in its jugular (vein),
about the size of a Bic pen, separated by five centimeters
between them.  What impressed me the most was the
way the body was completely bloodless and was as light
as a feather.  The dog was incredibly wooly (furry--J.T.)
and in fact I had to move the fur to see the puncture
marks.'"
      Summoned by Liliana, a team of Carabineros arrived
at the crime scene and took custody of the dog's body.
They loaded the dog into a black plastic garbage bag
and "ordered the family to remain silent, so as not to
panic the local residents."
      "'But I'm scared,' Liliana said, 'Since I have very young
children, and I'm afraid that whatever was there will come
back.'"
      The Carabineros took the dead dog to the First
Comissariat in Concepcion so it could be autopsied by
pathologists.
      The same day, May 4, 2000, "35 dead birds were found
on a ranch 12 kilometers (7 miles) from Pucon on the road
leading to the village of Caburuga.  The animal attacks,
attributed to the mythical Chupacabras, presented the same
characteristics as the earlier attacks.  (See UFO Roundup,
volume  5, number 17 for details) since the dead chickens
had cuts and scratches on different parts of their bodies.."
      Capt. Roberto Saldivia, deputy chief of the Pucon
Carabineros, "confirmed that the animals were found dead
in a pen, without a single drop of blood in them."
      "Cesar Hidalgo, regional director of Servicio Agricola y
Ganado (Chile's Agricultural and Livestock Service--J.T.).
explained that SAG professionals were at the scene" in
Caburuga and would investigate further.  (See the Chilean
newspapers Cronica of Concepcion for May 2, 2000; El Sur
for May 5, 2000, "Mysterious Nocturnal Apparition in
Building Courtyard--Dead Dog Found Later" by Carlso
Saso Prieto; and Orbe for May 5, 2000, "Further
Chupacabras Attacks."  Muchas gracias a Scott
Corrales, auto de los libros Chupacabras and Other
Mysteries y Forbidden Mexico, Gloria Coluchi y Ricardo
Concha para esas historias.)

TWO MYSTERIOUS METAL
SPHERES CRASH IN
SOUTH AFRICA

      Two mysterious metal spheres fell to Earth in
South Africa's West Cape province last week.
      The first incident took place on Thursday,
April 27, 2000 at a vineyard near Worcester, West
Cape province, about 70 kilometers (42 miles)
northeast of Capetown.
      The sphere weighed 30 kilograms *70 pounds)
and "was on fire," according to vineyard owner Pieter
Viljoen.
      "Viljoen said, 'My staff said they had led two hogs
out of the garden when they saw a shining ball fall into
the vineyard.  It was too hot to touch for 30 minutes.
But when it cooled, I loaded it into my truck, and the
(West-Beaumont) police have taken it for analysis.'"
      "A police spokesman said, 'The witnesses said it
was white-hot when it landed.  It appears to be solid iron
and there is a section that contains bolts.  I don't know what
it could be.'"
      The second object crashed in Durbanville, near
Worcester.  "The second was described as large,
oval, measuring 1 to 1.5 meters (3 to 4 feet) in
length and weighing 100 kilograms (233 pounds).."
      "Both impacts were preceded by an explosion.
In both cases, the witnesses stated that the impacts
were preceded by a double detonation."
      According to Louis Visser, a spokesman for South
Africa's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), the spheres were
taken to D.F. Malan Airport near Capetown and flown
to Pretoria, the national capital, for analysis.
      The government of South Africa has asked NASA for
assistance in identifying the mysterious objects.  (See
the South African newspaper The Star for May 1, 2000,
"Cape 'UFOs' to be flown to Pretoria for analysis,"
and the Daily Telegraph for May 2, 2000, "South Africa
alerts NASA as large metal balls fall from sky.")
(Editor's Comment: I have to wonder if these metal
spheres have anything to do with the UFO seen over
George, South Africa two weeks ago.  See UFO Roundup,
volume 5, number 17.)

CROP CIRCLES ARE FOUND
IN MILAN, TENNESSEE

      The USA's first crop circles of the year 2000 were
found in Milan Tennessee (population 7,600) last
week.  A cattle mutilation was also reported in the
vicinity.
      According to cerealogist Nancy Talbott, the crop
circles were formed in a field of winter wheat about
a half-mile outside of Milan during the early morning
hours of Monday, April 24, 2000, "probably about 3 a.m."
      "The witness's ten-year-old daughter and a 'sleepover'
friend were awakened at about 3 a.m. by a weird humming
noise," Ms. Talbott reported, "There were no windows in
the room they were sleeping in, so it is not known whether
there was light phenomena associated" with the humming.
      "A family dog, which had been sleeping on the mother's bed,
also howled around this time."
      "At about 7 a.m. on Monday morning, the witness opened
the front door" and saw a large crop formation "in the field
opposite her front door.  She and a stepson went to the
field briefly and found around 10 circles and associated
pathways, at least one circle that was ringed, another
circle that had occurred around an electricity (utility)
pole in the middle of the field."
      "They did not explore the whole formation because
there were many snakes in the field, including copperheads
and water moccasins (poisonous snakes of the region--
J.T.)
      "After entering the field, both the witness and her
stepson felt 'pain' in their legs."  They also reported
feeling "'light-headed' and unusually fatigued all of the
week after being in the field."
      "A crop duster told her later he had seen another
crop circle in the Milan area and 'another small circle
located immediately behind her mobile home.'"
      "No aerial photos have yet been taken of the
crop formations."
      On April 17, 2000, the witness reportedly told
Ms. Talbott, "There was a dead cow lying in a driveway
about a half-mile from her home and that there seemed
to be very peculiar cuts on the animal."
      Milan is on Tennesee Highway 79 approximately
110 miles (176 kilometers) northeast of Memphis.
(Many thanks to Nancy Talbott of BLT Research and
Paul Anderson of Circles Phenomena Research-Canada
for this report.)

LARGE CROP CIRCLE DRAWS
THOUSANDS IN SARDINIA

      Thousands of curiosity-seekers descended on the
village of Villaspeciosa on Sardinia, a large island in
the Mediterranean Sea adjacent to Italy. when a giant
crop circle appeared there last week.
      The crop circle appeared in a field of grain on the
outskirts of Villaspeciosa on Tuesday, May 2, 2000.
It was discovered by farm worker Pietro Pudda, 62,
and Giovanni Casti, 61, the owner of Ridda Izza farm.
      The crop circle measured 30 meters (100 feet)
in diameter nd consisted of three concentric circles.
The "lay-down" pattern of the grain stalks differed
in each ring.  The stalks of the outer ring lay perfectly
flat in one direction; the stalks of the next ring pointed in
the opposite direction, and the stalks of the inner ring
pointed in the same direction as the outer ring.
The inner ring was approximately 12 meters (40 feet) in
diameter.
      The farm was visited by a platoon of Carabineri
(Italy's national police--J.T.) who took photographs
and questioned Casti and Pudda.  The Carabineri were
from the barracks at Decimomanno.
      Pudda said, "I have never seen such a strange thing
in the grain before."
      The case is being investigated by ufologist Antonio
Cuccu of the Centro Italiano di Studi Ufologici (CISU).
(Grazie a Antonio Cuccu per questo rapporto.)

GREEN CYLINDRICAL UFO
SIGHTED NEAR DUBLIN

      On Tuesday, March 14, 2000, at 10:52 p.m.,
Gary Mugan was listening to the radio at his home
in Ballinteer, a suburb of Dublin, the capital of
Ireland, when he spotted a strange glow in the sky.
      "I saw a light green glowing object, cylindrically
shaped," Gary reported, "It passed over my house
and paused momentarily.  I was listening to my radio
and it stopped.  It took off at amazing speed over the
mountains.  There was no sound."
      Gary estimated that the UFO was "a green cylinder
about 40 feet (12 meters) long" and "flew at about
50 miles per hour (80 kilometers per hour)" and took
off at the speed of a supersonic jet.
      Afterward, he added, "I rang up a local radio talk show
and told them about it."  The radio station was 104.4 FM
in Dublin.  (Email Form Report)

THREE UFOs PERFORM OVER
THE NEVADA DESERT

      On Tuesday, May 2, 2000, at 11:10 p.m., five people
were at Valley View overlooking Diablo, Nevada, near
Tropicana, when they spotted three strange illuminated
objects in the sky.
      The UFOs were "approximately 80 to 85 degrees east
of north" and were "three star-like objects that were 70
degrees above the horizon.  Objects circled, merged,
formed triangles and other geometric shapes, hovered
and performed extraordinary aerodynamic feats not
associated with any aircraft I have ever heard of."
      "Another very strange object crossed our field of
view at the same time.  It appeared to be a great building
with no lights.  Very, very large.  The object was only a
small shade lighter than the background sky.  It took
maybe 30 seconds to cross the sky from south to north
approximately 70 degrees up from the horizon to the east
of us."
     The witness, Herb D., added, "I would like to add
that I am a sceptic with this UFO stuff and will believe
when a UFO lands in my backyard and an alien shakes
my hand."  (Many thanks to Steve Wilson Sr. for
forwarding this report.)

UFO DOES A FAST FLYBY IN
SOUTH HOUSTON, TEXAS

      On Wednesday, May 3, 2000, at 2 a.m., "an
extremely fast flying object from the south headed
due north, passing through the controlled airspace
near Hobby Airport" in South Houston, Texas
(population 14,207).
      "Our best guess is that this object appeared to
be at about 5,000 feet in altitude or more.  The vehicle
had a very bright white strobe light centered in the bottom.
It traveled in a straight line and a flat line *trajectory--J.T.)
not one as typical of a falling space rock.."
      "The pulsing light could be seen as the vehicle
approached and as it departed.  There was no sonic
boom or noise--zero!  The vehicle crossed the sky
from horizon to horizon in under five seconds, far too
fast to even attempt getting a picture."  (Many thanks to
Steve Wilson Sr. for forwarding this report.)

MYSTERIOUS LIGHTS SEEN
OVER HAMILTON, ONTARIO

      On Monday, April 24, 2000, Winston B. reports,
"One of the guys at work, who's into astronomy,"
was on the road making a delivery "when he
noticed a strange light in the night sky" over
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada (population 320,000),
a large city located 47 miles (78 kilometers)
southwest of Toronto.
      "As it flew over, he saw three lights in formation.
Like satellites.  No noise.  They were in a triangular
pattern moving across the night sky simultaneously--
most likely in a polar orbit--past Polaris (the North
Star--W.B.) and fading out fast after moving through
that stretch of sky."
      The lights were "spread out considerably," he
added, but retained their triangular formation at all
times.  (Many thanks to Aaron Warner for forwarding
this report.)

UN GLOBOCOPS ROUTED
IN SIERRA LEONE

      The United Nations Mission in Sierra Leone
(UNAMSIL) is on the verge of collapse after
UN peacekeepers, also known as "Blue Helmets"
began surrendering en masse to rebel forces
led by Foday Sankoh.
      The Security Council sent UNAMSIL to the West
African nation in December 1999 to impose a peace
settlement between the central government and
Gen. Sankoh's Revolutionary United Front (RUF).
      On May 1, UNAMSIL consisted of 7,223 troops
and 259 military observers from Bangladesh, Bolivia,
Canada, China, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark,
Egypt, France, Ghana, Gambia, Guinea, India,
Indonesia, Jordan, Kenya, Kirghizstan, Malaysia.
Mali, Nepal, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan,
Russia, Slovakia, Sweden, Thailand, UK, Tanzania,
Uguguay and Zambia.  The contingent also included
11 UN police and 512 UN civilian workers.
      The crisis began Wednesday, May 2, 2000, when
RUF guerrilla soldiers engaged UN Blue Helmets from
Kenya in a firefight in Makeni, about 200 kilometers
(120 miles) west of Freetown, the national capital.
RUF forces killed seven Blue Helmets and captured
60 others.
      "In response, the UN planners are trying to rush
in three battalions--more than 2,000 troops--from India,
Jordan and Bangladesh that were already slated to
serve in Sierra Leone."
      UNAMSIL sent 208 Blue Helmets from Zambia
to counter-attack in Makeni.  But the UN battalion
folded like an accordion.
      UN spokesman Fred "Eckhard said 208 Zambian
peacekeepers were captured by the RUF Thursday
while traveling to the town of Makeni to reinforce
Kenyan peacekeepers who had come under attack."
      "The rebels also seized 24 UN workers in the town
of Kailahun, while a contingent of more than 100
Nigerian peacekeepers were detained but later
released 'minus their weapons' near the town of
Kmpua, Eckhard said."
      By Friday, May 5, 2000, UNAMSIL troop strength
had reached 8,000 men.  But Blue Helmet desertions
continued.  Another 100 peacekeepers surrendered
to the RUF, turning in their blue helmets, automatic
rifles and heavy weapons.  "Rebel soldiers have now
taken over 300 UN hostages, commandeered 13
armored vehicles and confiscated hundreds of UN
weapons and uniforms, officials said."
     Gen. Sankoh began an advance on Freetown.
His RUF forces captured the town of Lunsar,
45 miles (77 kilometers) northeast of Freetown
and by afternoon had reached Masiaka.
      On Sunday, May 6, 2000, President Ahmad
Tejan Kabbah closed all churches, mosques and other
places of worship in Freetown.
      President Kabbah "went on national radio Sunday
to say that he was 'disappointed' with the way some
UN forces had 'capitulated' to rebel troops.  'But we haven't
yet reached the stage where we believe the UN is
incapable of fulfilling its mandate' for peacekeeping
in Sierra Leone, Kabbah said."
      Spearheaded by the captured UN armor, a column
of 1,000 RUF soldiers continues to advance on the
capital.  Sankoh's entire troop strength is estimated
to between 5,000 and 10,000 men.
      "The UN Security Council was called into emergency
session for a briefing on Sierra Leone."  French diplomat
"Bernard Miyet, the UN undersecretary for peacekeeping
(top UN Globocop--J.T.) was set to arrive in Sierra
Leone on Tuesday to boost troop morale."  (See the
Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for May 4, 2000, "U.N. seeks to
reinforce Sierra Leone peace force," page 5A; May 6, 2000,
""U.N. peacekeepers surrender to rebels in Sierra Leone,"
page 4A; and May 7, 2000, "Rebels near Sierra Leone
capital, add U.N. hostages,: [age 10A.  Also USA Today
for May 8, 2000, "Americans told to leave Sierra Leone,"
page 7-A)
(Editor's Comment:  Well, I guess it just isn't people in
the USA who are somewhat less than enchanted with
the globalists and their New World Order.)

from the UFO Files...

1945: HITLER--DEAD OR ALIVE?

      Fifty five years ago, on April 30, 1945, just before
4 p.m., a gunshot rang out in the Feuhrerbunker in Berlin,
signalling the end of the Third Reich and the moustached
fellow who served as its prophet-emperor.
      Our story begins with what, under other circumstances,
might have been a happy occasion--the wedding of Adolf
Hitler and his longtime mistress Eva Braun.  Following the
reception, just after midnight on April 30, "with a faraway
expression," Hitler "went down the hall, shaking hands.
Several said a few words, but he did not answer, moving
his lips inaudibly."
      Then the couple went to bed.
      After awakening later in the morning, Hitler conferred
with his SS adjutant Otto Gunsche, his servant Heinz
Linge,and his chauffeur Erich Kempka.  Gunsche
brought cyanide capsules to the anteroom that served
as the Feuhrer's makeshift office, and Hitler had him feed
one to his pet Alsatian dog.
      Curiously, Hitler, who loved dogs, showed no
emotion as he watched the animal die during the next
hour.  He seemed only interested in how long the
cyanide took to take effect.
(Editor's Comment: A strange reaction for someone
planning to use cyanide on himself.)
      "Late in the forenoon, the military conference took place
as usual.  Hitler received the information that the Soviet
(Russian) forces had by now occupied the Tiergarten,
Potsdamer Platz and the subway in the Volkstrasse,
in the immediate vicinity of the chancellery (and the
bunker--J.T.)  Then he ordered the delivery of 200
liters of gasoline."
      At 2 p.m., Hitler received Generals Burgdorf and
Krebs, Nazi Party Secretary Martin Bormann and
propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels and advised
them to "break out the best way you can--in small
groups."
      Then he had a very strange conversation with his
personal pilot, Hans Baur.
      "As they clasped hands, Baur begged him to escape
by plane to Argentina, to Japan, or to one of the Arab
countries, where his anti-Semitism had made him such
staunch friends.  But the Feuhrer would not have it."
      "You must have the courage to face the
consequences," Hitler told Baur, "I am ending my
earthly stay.  I know that by tomorrow millions of people
will curse me, but Fate wanted it that way."
(Editor's Comment: Interesting choice of words on
Hitler's part.  Why did he say "earthly stay" instead of
"life?"  Was he speaking of himself in a religious sense
as the Teutonic Messiah?  Or was he planning to flee
into space?)
      And that was the last anyone saw of Hitler until
the fatal gunshot two hours later.
      Between 2:30 and 3 p.m., "the phone rang.  It was
Gunsche again.  'I need two hundred liters of gasoline
immediately,' he said huskily.  Kempka thought it was
some kind of joke and wanted to know why he needed
so much.  Gunsche could not tell him on the phone.
'I want it at the entrance of the Feuhrerbunker without
fail.'"
      Note that it was Gunsche and not Hitler who made
this phone call, even though it was Hitler himself who
originally ordered the gasoline.  Why didn't Hitler pick
up the phone?
      Because he was no longer in the bunker?
      Just before 4 p.m., "Traudl Junge was telling the
Goebbels children a fairy story to keep them from
going downstairs when a shot echoed through the
damp concrete.  Young Helmut (Goebbels) thought
it was an enemy bomb and said, 'Bull's-eye!'"
      At this point there are wildly varying versions of
what happened.  Gunsche said he was in the
conference room with Goebbels and Bormann when
he heard the shot, and they rushed to the anteroom
with Goebbels in the lead.
      But Rattenhuber, commander of Hitler's SS guards,
claimed that Gunsche was already in the anteroom
when he arrived.
      One version has Hitler and wife Eva sitting together
on the bloodstained couch.  But Kempka's first words
when he walked in were "Where's Eva?"
      Other versions had Hitler shot in the right temple,
in the left temple, or in the mouth.  Hitler lying slumped
back in the couch.  Hitler pitched forward with his face
at rest on the coffee table.
      Never was there a more confused crime scene.
      The most common version goes like this: "the
Feuhrer on the couchh, sprawled face down across a
low table, and Eva, slumped over the armrest, her lips
slightly closed in death, discolored by cyanide.  Her
dress was wet (my emphasis--J.T.)
      Most homicide detectives, upon viewing this crime
scene, would have turned to Gunsche and said, "Why
did you kill him?"
      Someone got shot.  But was it Hitler?
      Flash forward fifty-five years to May 9, 2000, and an
exhibition in Moscow.  "The object now ensconced on
black velvet under glass at Russia's State Archives is
believed to be all that remains of the 20th Century's
most evil person--Adolf Hitler."
      "But the scrap of bone on display is hardly inspiring,
small with jagged edges, signs of charring and an obvious
bullet hole.  The Russians also have four fragments
of Hitler's jaw, whose dental work was used to make
the identification."
      The Russians found Hitler's dental records in the
office of his personal physician, Dr. Theodore
Morell, in Berlin.  This helped to identify the remains.
      Flash back to 1945--"Rattenhuber ordered the bodies
to be taken (of Hitler and Eva) to be taken into the
courtyard.  There he had the gasoline poured over them
and invited the mourners to come up.  No sooner had they
assembled than Russian shelling drove them back to the
bunker entrance.  Hitler's SS adjutant Otto Gunsche
thereupon tossed a burning rag upon both corpses, and
when the leaping flames swathed the bodies, everyone
stood at attention and gave the Nazi salute."
      It's possible that Hitler might have faked his own
death.  It seems strange that Eva's body was "slumped
over the armrest," as if someone had dropped it there.
And why did she spill that Tokay wine on her dress?
     Suppose Hitler had decided earlier to fake his own
death.  It would have been a simple matter for the SS
to find a "double" for the Feuhrer among the thousands
of prisoners in the Nazi concentration camps.  Then
the SS would have pulled a switch at Dr. Morell's
office, substituting the double's dental records for
Hitler's genuine chart.
      Now it's April 30, 1945.  The fat lady is not only
at the microphone.  She's clearing her throat and
trilling, "Mi-mi-mi-mi-mi!"  Hitler already has his
exit prepared.  That may explain his unusual
sang-froid when Baur proposes a last-minute
flight out of embattled Berlin.
      A live Hitler would have brought the Allies
into howling pursuit.  But who's going to search
diligently for a "dead man?"
      After Baur leaves, Hitler invites Eva to join
him for a glass of Tokay wine.  But Eva's glass
contains an ampoule of cyanide--one of the
capsules Hitler was experimenting with that morning.
Eva takes the fatal sip, then topples to the floor,
spilling the wine on her dress.  Hitler picks her up
and drops her over the armrest.  His new wife has
become "stage scenery" for his great death scene.
      After shaking hands with his co-conspirator
Gunsche, Hitler is out the door.
      Sometime around 3:30 p.m., the SS brings
Hitler's double in.  A small man in his late fifties
with dark hair and bright blue eyes.  Maybe he
understands why the SS guards gave him that
haircut and shaved his moustache that morning.
Maybe not.  Gunsche, holding a Walter in his
hand, orders him to sit on the couch.  He does
as he's told, wondering who the dead blonde is.
Just before 4 p.m., Gunsche steps behind the
couch, puts the Walter muzzle against the
double's head, and squeezes the trigger.
      He has just enough time to stuff the Walther
in the dead double's hand before Goebbels
bursts into the anteroom.
      So, did Hitler really shoot himself?  Or did he,
with Gunsche's help, pull off an escape worthy of
Harry Houdini?
      There may be a way to find out.
      Faked dental records and a matching blood
type might have fooled the forensic scientists of the
1940s.  But today we now have more comprehensive
tools.  Such as DNA analysis.
      As was done recently in France, to identify the
dead Dauphin, it would be a simple matter to take a
lock of Hitler's hair from the 1930s and match its DNA
against the DNA of the skull fragment now in Russia's
State Archives.
      We would finally have an answer, one way or the
other, to that old question: Hitler, dead or alive?
(See the books Hitler by Joachim C. Fest, Harcourt,
Brace & Jovanovich, New York, N.Y., 1974,
pages 745 to 750 and Adolf Hitler, volume 2, by
John Toland, Doubleday & Co., New York, N.Y.,
1976, pages 998 to 1005.  Also the Duluth, Minn.
News-Tribune for April 30, 2000, "Fragments of
Hitler's skull focus of army exhibit in Moscow,"
page 9A.)

      Well, we got through the planetary alignment
last Friday, May 5, and there were no widespread
disasters on Earth.  If you missed it, take good care
of your health.  You won't be able to see the next
one until the late Twenty-Fourth Century.
      But we'll be back next week with more UFO and
paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought
to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."
Have a great week!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in
newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.

*********************************************************
IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

The Hunger Site
---------------
http://www.thehungersite.com

Every 3.6 seconds somebody starves to death. 3/4 of the
deaths are children under 5. By visiting the Hunger Site
and clicking on a button you can donate free food.

There is absolutely no charge to you for the donation -
the food is paid for by sponsors.

Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
If you have a web site download a banner and give a link!
*********************************************************

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm


Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of the UK UFO Network Bulletin,
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences,
UFO + PSI Magazine also available, plus archives of
Filer's Files.








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 11

                 Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:35:37 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:55:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview


 >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:27:47 -0500
 >From: Brian Straight <brians@mdbs.com>
 >Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:04:51 -0300
 >>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>Subject: Re: Skeptics Society's Shermer - Interview
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Hello GT and all,

 >>Re your locomotives and proof. I get your meaning. But try this
 >>one. Prove that the Appolo astronauts went to the Moon.

 >>Don

Brian,

Thank you..... someone finally bit. I'm sure they did too. In
fact I'd be devastated to discover otherwise. But let's assume
I'm the skeptic.

Answered in text.

 >OK - I'll take that challenge.

 >1 - I saw the Saturn V lift off with my own eyes. Pretty big
 >rocket if you just want to do a fake earth orbit thing. But I'll
 >concede the point that it doesn't prove anything.

That's true. Putting up another satellite, maybe.

 >2 - I saw the TLI burn with my own eyes, and followed it through
 >my scope. We sent something out of earth orbit to the moon (a
 >fact that can be independently verified - some amateur
 >astronomers were able to independently calculate the orbital
 >elements of the spacecraft from their own observations).

Yes but they are amateur astronomers, not professionals. They
probably saw: Venus (it doesn't matter if it wasn't anywhere in
the vicinity - it's out there somewhere) Mars, the Moon itself,
Jupiter, a comet, a meteoroid, an asteroid a Soviet probe, a U-2
spy plane, a speck on the telescope lens, an abberation in the
eye, ocular movement, mass hysteria.

 >3 - I was fortunate to be able to assist a team that was
 >measuring the distance to the moon by bouncing lasers off
 >reflectors placed on the lunar surface by Armstrong and Aldrin.
 >The reflectors became available only after placement by the
 >Apollo astronauts, and were precisely in the area specified. I
 >suppose it could be argued that they were set there by a robotic
 >probe, but if you have the technology to land with that degree
 >of precision, you can certainly send men to the moon.

But of course they didn't. It was a robotic placement. It was
too expensive to send a team to the Moon.

 >4 - I know folks who worked the tracking stations. Conversations
 >and telemetry were certainly originating from an object going to
 >the moon (again, I suppose you could argue it was some sort of
 >"repeater").

You got it, and cross-talk, land line, a pirate station, old
re-runs of Buck Rogers picked up in error.

 >5 - Getting to the moon was not a particularly difficult
 >problem - the appropriate level of technology either existed or
 >could be developed by a crash r&d program.

It cost about 90 Billion dollars in the late 60's. Cheaper to
send a robotic mission.

 >6 - There is absolutely no credible evidence (other than that
 >offered by individuals who do not understand photography or the
 >physics of the behavior of objects in one-sixth gee), that the
 >Apollo astronauts did NOT go to the moon.

Yes but we only have the anecdotal testimony of these people who
"say" that it happened.It could have been faked photography.
After all, there are many experts who say that many UFO photos
are real. I'm sure there are many photographic experts who would
be willing to swear that the Moon photos were faked... or could
not be definitively proved to be genuine.

 >7 - As a Purdue Alum, I've met nearly all the Apollo astronauts.
 >For ex-fighter jocks, they are incredibly good actors if they
 >are lying.

Same can be said of those fighter jocks that have reported UFOs
in the thousands over the last 50 years... and a few astronauts.

 >8 - The "no-go" hypothesis requires a conspiracy on a massive
 >scale. Even small conspiracies unravel very quickly because
 >someone blabs. I know of no credible source, _directly_ involved
 >with the program who would argue that the landings did not take
 >place.

Would this statement not hold true with the general population
which contains the same level of expertise yet reports UFOs,
however in numbers factoring say 10 times (I'm sure a modest
figure) that of those at NASA and the government who say they
did land men on the Moon.

Remember Brian, we are reversing the tables. They have to prove
to me that it happened... not me disprove for them that it
didn't. They reported this strange phenomenon of men landing on
the Moon.

Sorry to be facetious, but I think you get my drift.

Don Ledger







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   May > May 11

                        What We Learned Over Area 51

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:43:55 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:57:44 -0400
Subject: What We Learned Over Area 51


Greetings list -

From: http://www.space.com/opinionscolumns/opinions/brown_0005103.html

What We Learned Over Area 51
By Tim Brown
posted: 07:01 am ET
10 May 2000

Late last year, Space Imaging Corporation launched Ikonos, a
satellite able to image objects as small as 1 meter (3 feet)
long, anywhere on the planet. Early this year, we at the
Federation of American Scientists ordered an image of the secret
military base known as Area 51. We sought to test the
capabilities and accessibility of this new technology.

Some 10 weeks later, with the Area 51 image on our website, we
now have a clearer picture of not only the secret military base
at Groom Lake, but of the limits of "near-real-time" imagery
acquisition.

The truth about Area 51

Historically, Area 51 is where the U 2, A 12, SR 71, D 21 Drone
and F 117 Stealth Fighter were flight-tested in secret. Area 51
is an advanced-technology flight-test center -- a "black"
version of Edwards Air Force Base. Speculation aside, the
1-meter Ikonos image we purchased shows buildings and facilities
consistent with those at Edwards AFB.

A new 11,900-foot (3,625-meter) runway was built after the F 117
Stealth Fighter program became public knowledge. In 1995 the
Department of the Interior withdrew over 3,900 acres (1,578
hectares) of public land that curiosity-seekers used to observe
activity at Area 51. These facts taken together point to ongoing
flight-test activity or at least a desire on the Air Force's
part to maintain such a capability at Area 51 for the
foreseeable future.

Imagery not a threat

The other thing we learned from our experience purchasing the
Area 51 image was the limits that weather and tasking
constraints place on the ability to acquire "near-real-time"
imagery. Almost from the beginning of the availability of
commercial satellite imagery, defense officials and the
public-policy community have voiced concerns over the possible
national security implications of commercial remote sensing.

Some analysts have asserted that terrorists, rogue nations or
adversaries might be able to use high -resolution imagery to
plan attacks on U.S. troops or thwart U.S. military operations.
Some have argued that "shutter control" might have to be imposed
-- that U.S.-government officials would have to limit access to
imagery during times when national security or international
treaties might be affected.

Our experience with the Area 51 image shows "near-real-time" can
be a concept denominated in weeks, not days. When conditions are
ideal, an image can be tasked, collected and processed in hours,
as in the case of the Ikonos image showing tornado damage in
Fort Worth, Texas. But ideal conditions are the exception, not
the norm. Over 60 percent of the world is covered by clouds.
Given the three-day revisit time between satellite passes, it
could take from several to dozens of passes to get a cloud-free
image.

Imagery acquired by government intelligence agencies as
reference material for their target folders is not
time-sensitive. For this application, waiting months is
acceptable. But the operational or tactical user, such as a
battlefield commander, cannot wait months, or even days, for
imagery of the battlefield to be collected. Such pictures have
an extremely short shelf-life.

Uncertainty of acquisition will be another problem for anyone
seeking to gain military advantage from commercial imagery. Will
the next image arrive on a battlefield commander's desk in a
week, a month or longer? Those who are entrusted to fight their
nation's wars simply cannot count on maybe.

Our experience with the Area 51 image demonstrates the
uncertainty and unreliability inherent in acquiring commercial
imagery. Such factors limit its potential utility in any future
conflict. Certainly, nations can, and already have started to,
order imagery sets of their rivals' military installations.

But should a war start, cloud cover and tasking problems could
render such imagery a curiosity. Add the mere possibility of
U.S.-imposed shutter control, and commercial high-resolution
satellite imagery will be virtually useless to foreign
battlefield commanders. For the foreseeable future, belligerent
nations will not be able to rely on U.S. commercial
high-resolution satellite imagery for use in warfare.

Weather and tasking issues pose sufficient limits on foreign
military use that U.S.-imposed shutter control will not be
necessary for some time to come. Any foreign intelligence
official who promises the local dictator a military advantage
from commercial, high-resolution imagery is taking a big,
personal risk.


Tim Brown is an imagery analyst working on the Public Eye
project at the Federation of American Scientists. He has spent
the past two years exploiting declassified Corona satellite
imagery and, more recently, has expanded his focus to the newly
available 1-meter imagery from the Ikonos satellite.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 11

                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:05:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 17:16:48 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>I am increasingly annoyed by this cheap avenue of attack.
 >>Please specify where in any of my Cydonia updates/editorials
 >>have I insinuated that NASA is "doctoring" the "evidence."
 >>Certainly one can argue that there are those who will never
 >>be satisfied.

 >Don't get your shorts in a knot over this one.

Believe me, I won't.

 >I was making a general observation and if you had noticed it
 >generally agreed with you that neither side of the debate will
 >be happy with any results no matter what they are, no matter
 >how perfect the photos, no matter how many times the site is
 >photographed.

Yes, but you made this observation after selectively quoting
_my_ article! I wanted to make it as clear as possible that the
paranoid route is precisely the route I choose to avoid.

<snip>

 >What about the so called smilie face on MARS which could be
 >considered to be greater evidence of intelligent creation then
 >the so called face?

You're joking, right? I think anyone who considers the "Happy
Face," which NASA dutifully shows us in an obvious effort to
equate it with the Face, would have to be tripping on a
significant dose of psychoactive drugs. Where is the symmetry in
the "Happy Face"? The internal detail? Name one aspect of the
"Happy Face" that would make a rational person consider--even
for a split-second--that it's the work of intelligence. There is
simply not space in this mailing to enumerate (again) the
evidence in favor of the Face's artificiality.

The "Happy Face," as any PR person at NASA would likely tell
you, is a none-too-subtle attempt to divert attention from what
may possibly be the "real thing." NASA doesn't think Cydonia
reflects evidence for artificiality. I don't think they're
hiding anything; the misdirected tactics they've employed to
discredit no-kidding scientific work on Cydonia is just politics
as usual.

 >Many years ago I spent time going over aerial photos of the
 >desert south west for a historical project. Looking strictly
 >at the photos we ran across features that looked like man made
 >structures and so on. While we were doing ground investigation
 >we took the opportunity to look at these structures and they
 >were very much naturally created.

That's a really interesting anecdote. And its relevance is...?
Until we commit to taking a serious look at Cydonia and
democratizing the data-dissemination process, accounts like the
above are useless. The Face may turn out to be a false alarm;
I'm perfectly ready to concede that.  But so far there is
insufficient evidence to support either of the two hypothesis
(natural v. artificial) enough to justify dismissing--or
irrationally elevating--the issue.

 >>And _when_ are the so-called "skeptics" going to dispense
 >>with the demonstrated fiction that the Face formation is a
 >>trick of lighting? I refer you to Mark Carlotto's "The
 >>Martian Enigmas," which goes into painstaking detail about
 >>the procedures used to demonstrate that the Face remains
 >>facelike at virtually any lighting angle. The MGS results
 >>are in keeping with his predictions, as illustrated in the
 >>animated GIF posted on my website:
 >>http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html.

 >They are still his interpretation.

Carlotto's reconstructions have been duplicated by other
independent researchers. The Face looks like face. Does this
mean it's artificial? Of course not.

 >Like I said earlier if the new photos don't prove his, or
 >anybody elses Mars theory beyond a reasonable doubt, it will
 >be labeled to be part of the evil government conspiracy.

Let me paraphrase my personal favorite of Daniel Drasin's 'Ways
to Debunk Just About Anything':

      "Vigorously maintain that 'extraordinary claims require
      extraordinary evidence,' but take special pains to never
      define what 'extraordinary' entails. This allows you to
      keep a constantly receding evidential horizon, infinitely
      delaying scientific accountability on your part."

Mac Tonnies

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html







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   May > May 11

                   Dr Schilling, Professor Oberth And UFOs

From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:22:04 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:30:49 -0400
Subject: Dr Schilling, Professor Oberth And UFOs


Oz & Asia Data Research
Phenomena Research Australia


EBK & Researchers,

I have just been given a notice on the death of Dr Martin
Schilling (b: 1 Oct 1911 - d: 30 Apr 2000) at the age of 88, at
Burlington, Massachusetts.[1]

Dr Schilling gained his PhD in Applied Physics and was recruited
by Major General Walter Dornberger to work on the V2 project at
Peenemunde with Dr von Braun. He was one of the 126 scientists
that were resettled in the US at Fort Bliss, near El Paso, Texas
after the war.[2] This team later moved to Huntsville, Alabama
(Marshall Space Flight Centre) and launched the USA into space
in 1958. Martin later left the Huntsville Team, to work for the
"Raytheon Company" and rose to become vice-president for
research, retiring in 1977.[3]

To cut a long story short, I thought you might find this story
told to me in 1981 by one of Martin's, 'Raytheon' colleagues,
the story went this way:


A staff member was passing judgment against the brilliant rocket
pioneer, Professor Hermann Oberth (1894-1989) mocking him as
being "nuts" for his belief that craft from other worlds
existed. The exchange occurred after Oberth had stated in the
press that UFOs in his opinion were bona fide.[4]

Martin is said to have slowly turned and glared at the chap, and
from the friends account, in a clear and direct retort, was
heard to have said:

      "Oberth, mad! You don't know what he knows or
      what we know, he is not mistaken! Oberth never
      said anything that was irrational and theoretically
      wrong, why don't you listen". [5]

And that was it.

Now that's an endorsement if I ever heard one.



Regards,

John W. Auchettl
  Director PRA Research

PRAUFO  = http://www.praufo.web.com/
* Still in development.


References:

[1] Honan, William. H - 'Martin Schilling, Developer Of
     V-2 Missile, Dies at 88', The NY Times - May 8,
     2000, Monday - National Desk, 622 words.

[2] Dr Martin Schilling became a U.S. citizen on
     15 Apr 1955, Huntsville.

[3] Raytheon Company http://www.raytheon.com/

[4] Sigma, Rho - "Dr Hermann Oberth looks at UFOs",
     Fate, Dec, pp45-48. 1968.

[5] Please Note: This is NOT the exact quote but close
     to it. JW Auchettl.


Images:

You will find a photograph of Martin Schilling (LHS), Ernst
Stuhlinger (Mid), and Wernher von Braun (RHS) signing their
certificates of citizenship on 15th April 1955. At the
Huntsville High School.

http://histnew.msfc.nasa.gov/mm/lk_citizen.html


UFO Famous Quotes:

http://209.1.224.15/Area51/Rampart/2271/ufoquotes.html

Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE






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   May > May 11

                        UK UFO Conference - 07-16-00

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 02:48:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:38:31 -0400
Subject: UK UFO Conference - 07-16-00


Hi All,

Apologies if you have already seen this one, just passing it on!

Roy..


UFORM - UFO Research Midlands Presents

UFOs The Millennium Debate 5th Anniversary Conference


Speakers Include:

Graham Birdsall  - UFO Magazine

Nick Redfern     - Covert Agenda

Peter Rhodes     - Chief Feature Writer/Researcher
                    Express & Star News group

Lionel Fanthorpe - Unsolved Aerial Mysteries
                    CH4's Fortean TV Presenter

Chris Everad     - www.enigmatv.com

Michael Bourke   - Bishop Of Wolverhampton


Sunday 16th July 2000, Town Hall Crown Centre,
Stourbridge, West Midlands

Tickets:     �8:00 Advance
              �10:00 on the door
Concessions: �7:00

Email contact: contact@uform.co.uk
Web Site:      www.uform.co.uk









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   May > May 12

                    McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:19:29 -0400
Subject: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


Greetings list -

Source: The News-Register, McMinnville, Oregon

http://www.newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=115476&category=Local+News

McMinnville UFO photos soar the globe
Published: May 9, 2000
By Pat Forgey Of the News-Register

Fifty years ago, the most important event in human history
happened in McMinnville when a local farm couple captured
evidence of interplanetary visitors on film.

Or they merely snapped a couple of pictures of a still-secret
military craft. Or maybe it was an optical illusion, or a hoax.

Even after 50 years, nobody yet knows what to make of the two
photographs taken by Paul and Evelyn Trent a bit after dinner on
May 11, 1950. Much has been made of the photographs,
nonetheless.

What set the Trents' photographs apart wasn't the timing. They
weren't the first photos purporting to show unidentified flying
objects, and they've hardly been the last.

"There have been a lot of such events, but this was of
particular interest because of the clarity of the photos," said
Bruce Maccabee, a researcher who has performed an exhaustive
analysis. "Without the photos, it would have been just another
sighting by some people, but the Trent case stands out because
these photos are so clear that it's either the real thing or a
hoax."

Unlikely hoaxers

Beyond the relative clarity of the photos, though, it was the
Trents themselves who really set the photos apart.

Both Paul and Evelyn Trent died in the late 1990s. The house
where the photographs were taken has long since been torn down.

But the Trents were, by all accounts, simple farm folk. They
weren't the sort of people likely to either imagine or make up a
flying saucer story, said Maccabee, who spent hours interviewing
them over several years while he studied the photographs.

"I basically concluded that they were not the type of people who
would attempt a UFO hoax, to say the nothing of pulling one
off," he said.

That conclusion was echoed by journalist Bill Powell, who showed
the Trent photographs to the world and touched off a media
circus decades before that term came into common use.

Working for the Telephone-Register, predecessor of the
News-Register, Powell got word of the photos in June 1950. They
had been snapped a month earlier.

There were two of them. Retrieving the negatives from Paul
Trent, Powell published them across the top of the
Telephone-Register and told the Trents' story.

Evelyn Trent had been feeding rabbits in the backyard of their
Ballston-area farm when she saw a flying disc in the sky to the
northwest. She called for her husband, Paul, who snapped a
photograph with his Kodak camera, rewound the film as rapidly as
possible, and snapped a second shot 30 seconds later.

Both photos appear to show a disc zipping through the sky.

Paul Trent may have had photos of the biggest news story ever to
hit McMinnville, but all he did was put the camera away. Later,
after finishing off the roll of film on Mother's Day, he took it
to a drug store on McMinnville's Third Street to be developed.

"The reason I thought they were authentic was that the negatives
were in the middle of the roll," said Powell from his retirement
home in Idaho Falls, Idaho. "He'd taken some more pictures so
that he'd make sure he got his money's worth when he developed
the things."

Maccabee said that story is part of why the photographs have
taken on such importance in the UFO movement. If the Trents had
been trying to fake a photograph, they'd likely have taken
several practice shots and shown the world only the best of what
they ended up with.

The other thing that makes the photos believable is that the
Trents didn't seem to be trying to take advantage of them.

The day Paul Trent got the film developed, he told banker Ralph
Wortman about it. Wortman mentioned it to Telephone-Register
Editor Phil Bladine, who dispatched Powell to investigate.

Photos go national

Once the photos were published, however, they touched a national
nerve.

Several supposed UFO sightings, usually called flying saucers
then, had recently made the news. The photos went out on the
wires and were reprinted across the nation.

Life, then the nation's top circulation magazine, published them
in July.

Mutual Broadcasting System radio personality Frank Edwards
obtained a copy of the Telephone-Register and called Bladine.

"Your paper is 10 cents," Edwards said to Bladine. "Can I tell
people that if they send you a dime, you'll send 'em a copy?"

"I said 'sure', figuring that we might get a request for three
or four papers," Bladine recalled.

Instead, requests flooded in. Dimes came taped to cards and
wrapped in paper.

Sometimes payment was made in stamps. Sometimes dollar bills
were sent and multiple copies were requested.

The Telephone Register's headline the next week reported,
"Saucers Top Story in U.S. Inquiries Flood TR office."

At the time, the paper's circulation was less than 4,000,
Bladine guesses. But by the end of week, requests for an extra
2,000 copies had come in.

That led to a special reprinting of the front page on high
quality paper. By late summer, most of a special press run of
10,000 copies had been mailed out to people in all 48 states,
the District of Columbia and Canada.

Bladine said many of the people contacting the paper had stories
to tell. "People said that they'd seen a flying saucer, but
didn't want to tell anyone because they were afraid they'd be
thought nuts."

The Trents were eventually invited to New York for a radio
appearance.

The photos have been reprinted many times since. They were
included in the Condon Report, a University of Colorado study
conducted into UFO sightings on behalf of the U.S. Air Force.

Before Life published the photographs, they were cropped by
someone. Nothing but the cropped versions have been published
since, said Tim Hills, a McMenamins historian who researched the
photos as part of a look at the area's history when the pub
chain reopened Hotel Oregon in McMinnville.

"The Telephone Register is the only source of the full-frame
photos," he said. "They were never published full-frame ever
again."

Skeptics abound

UFO skeptics have challenged the photos' authenticity, saying
the story the Trents told of how the photos came to be taken was
inconsistent. Maccabee, who interviewed the Trents many times,
said he didn't find the inconsistencies significant.

"If they had said exactly the same thing every time, they
(skeptics) would have said it was a hoax because they'd
memorized it," he said. "You can't win with that one."

Other critics have said the shadows in the pictures indicate the
photos were taken in the morning, rather than evening as the
Trents said, but no one has come up with an explanation for why
they'd lie about an insignificant element like that.

Hills finds the Trents and their story credible, even after the
variations of multiple tellings.

"Their stories really didn't change significantly," he said.
"It's a credit to them, and bolsters their credibility."

That doesn't mean that it's not a hoax of some sort, he said.

But it's stood up for five decades. "If it is a fake it's a
masterful one," he said.

Maccabee said he's convinced of the photos' authenticity. What
he doesn't know is what Paul Trent snapped a picture of that day
in 1950.

Trent himself thought it was some type of secret military plane,
Maccabee said.

He was reluctant at first to even let the newspaper publish the
photos. He was quoted in the first story as saying, "I'm afraid
I'll get into trouble with the government."

Hills is among those who doesn't think it was a top secret Air
Force project.

"If we had the capability in 1947 to make a flying saucer, we
should be able to do that today, and we can't. It's a big
question mark to me," he said.

Powell still doesn't' know what to make of it. The story he
published carried the headline, "At Long Last -- Authentic
Photographs of Flying Saucer [?]"

Powell said it should be read carefully.

"You'll notice that on my screamer, I put a question mark," he
said. "I was covering my butt a little bit."

Hills said he may not be able to explain it, but he knows one
thing. "It's a great story."

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com









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   May > May 12

                 Radioactive Documents At National Archives

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:34:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:22:26 -0400
Subject: Radioactive Documents At National Archives


EBK & list:

UFO researchers frequently review declassified documents at The
National Archives. Enclosed below is a strange article that may
be 'of interest' to such researchers. -- KY

========================

Radioactive Documents Found in Md.
Friday, May 12, 2000
The Associated Press

COLLEGE PARK, Md. (AP) -- Researchers who are re-classifying
millions of records at the National Archives facility here have
discovered that some of the documents are radioactive.

Officials say the contamination is limited to a few boxes.

The contaminated documents were found in January when a
researcher who was reviewing 50-year-old notes about radiation
noticed gray dust and an envelope containing what appeared to be
metal fragments.

Tests by the Archive's conservation laboratory identified the
substance as uranium.

The facility's 50 employees were doused in a special wash and
checked for radioactivity. They now keep a device on hand that
can detect radiation.

The radioactive records were among 1.2 billion pieces of paper
from laboratories nationwide that are being reviewed as part of
President Clinton's 1995 order to declassify documents older
than 25 years. The contaminated boxes could have come from any
one of several laboratories.

The Energy Department plans to conduct a sweep of the College
Park archives by the end of the year. Meanwhile, researchers
have been told to look out for anything suspicious.

"We've notified all our reviewers to be careful," said Roger K.
Heusser, director of the declassification project for the
Department of Energy. "Most of these records are letters and
reports in file folders. If you do see a packet of powder, it's
pretty evident there is something unusual in there."

End of article
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/









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   May > May 12

                             LH's Email Troubles

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@JPS.NET>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 04:18:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:26:12 -0400
Subject: LH's Email Troubles


As OneMain.com gobbles JPS.NET whole, I am having lots of email
difficulties.

One result is that lots of mail sent to me is getting bounced
back to the senders as undeliverable.

As a result, I probably missed some list submissions and other
private messages.

If its important, please keep trying. Eventually, it seems to
get through.

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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   May > May 12

                      Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 11

From: James Easton <voyager@ufoworld.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:33:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:45:47 -0400
Subject: Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 11


Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 11


CONTENTS

1. UFO World.

2. The `Rendlesham Forest' UFO Encounters - Copy of Original,
    Key Testimony and Sketches Now Published.

3. Trent Photographs - New High-Res Scans Available.

4. UFO Research List.


                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


1. UFO World.

I'm please to announce that UFO World is now on-line at:

www.ufoworld.co.uk

This contains all of my research material previously available
on the Internet and the site will be continuously updated and
considerably expanded, encompassing the most significant raw
data and objective investigations from researchers.

All links to other sources have been verified and it's
recommended that anyone interested in the topic should spend
some time browsing those sites listed.

Especially advocated this month are:

The Anomalist -
http://www.anomalist.com/

Fortean Times -
http://www.forteantimes.com/

UFOCOM - UFO research in Belgium (Interesting material re the
Belgian `Triangular UFO' sightings)
http://195.74.196.113/UfocomHq/usmenu.htm

CIPFANI - The view from a Brazilian organisation
http://users.task.com.br/cipfani/

Video footage from around the world
http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/dledger/video.htm


Please update any links to my previous web site, or feel free to
link to the material at UFO World and let me know of any sites
you would like added.

UFO World will contain truly significant evidence relating to
the subject of UFOs - we're looking for answers, not mysteries.


                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


2. The `Rendlesham Forest' UFO Encounters - Copy of Original,
    Key Testimony and Sketches Now Published.

When I acquired copies of the original witness testimonies, I
provided them to various researches with an long-term interest
in this classic British mystery. The pivotal statement of Airman
Ed Cabansag was also made available on my web site.

Now, the equally important affidavit and accompanying sketches
from Staff-Sergeant Jim Penniston are being published and for
the first time ever, the UFO which Penniston originally
portrayed can be seen.

Although I have previously confirmed details of this depiction,
it may still be something of a surprise for those more familiar
with the more celebrated triangular UFO of Rendlesham lore.

The material now available at UFO World is as follows:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/penn1.gif

The cover page of Penniston's report. This is marked 'Eyes Only'
for Lt. Col. Halt. It's crucial to note that the testimonies of
Cabansag, Penniston, Airman 1st Class John Burroughs and others
were not requested and obtained by Halt until the beginning of
January, 1981, a full week after the initial incident they had
been involved with.

Halt has explained this was due to the holiday/leave period.


http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/penn2.gif

Penniston's full statement.

There are some key points therein.

Penniston does describe observing at the time a "mechanical"
object within Rendlesham forest. There's no debate about this as
it is verified in the statement of Master-Sergeant J. D.
Chandler, who was monitoring radio communications.

Penniston also confirms he was never closer to the unidentified
object than 50 meters. This is a huge anomaly given his accounts
in later years of spending some twenty minutes examining and
touching the object, plus documenting the strange symbols on its
surface.

Completely absent from this statement is any mention of having
next pursued an unidentified light for some two miles, before
realising it originated from a nearby lighthouse, almost
certainly at Orfordness [Orford Ness].

That fact is documented in all other statements.


http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/penn3.gif

Penniston's first diagram.

As noted in his statement, this shows the scene as viewed from
`east gate' sentry point, looking down east gate road towards
the forest.

For comparison, see the photograph I took of this viewpoint:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/eg_road.jpg

It's part of the article on UFO World at:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/rend3.htm


http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/penn4.gif

A map of the route which the patrol, consisting of Burroughs,
Cabansag and Penniston, took through the forest. The point at
which they left their vehicle and continued on foot is shown and
this agrees with the evidence which had been gathered from other
sources.


http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/penn5.gif

The scene when the object was viewed at closer range within
Rendlesham forest.

I can't make out that writing in the middle, with an arrow
pointing towards the lights/object within the trees - any
suggestions are welcome.


http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/penn6.gif

The UFO...

Note that within the insert, Penniston apparently questions the
light sequence. This would be consistent with the object never
being viewed at close range and that's the scenario reported by
all other participant accounts.


Subsequently, Penniston's recollections differed considerably,
as emphasised in the illustrations which he seemingly first
produced in public circa 1997. These were published on the
Microsoft Network's UFO forum and later in an article I wrote
for UFO Magazine (UK).

Apparently claimed to be copies of the sketches from his
original notebook and drawn at the time he closely examined a
triangular craft at leisure, these can be seen at:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/jpdraw1.jpg

The triangular craft.


http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/jpdraw2.jpg

The triangular craft as viewed side-on and related ground
indentations.


http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/jpdraw3.jpg

A copy of the insignia allegedly `etched' into the craft's
surface.


To help understand all of this in context, there's detailed,
factual background material on UFO World.

It can be directly accessed via:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/rendlshm.htm

or by the redirected URL:

www.rendlesham.com


The background articles highlight numerous evidential anomalies
and questions which remain unanswered.

Most obviously, how can Penniston have examined and sketched the
craft/insignia with such detail when it's acknowledged in his
testimony that he was never closer than 50 meters - how could he
have drawn the insignia [or indeed anything] with perfect lines
and circles, in the dark of night and the middle of a dense
forest!

How can his later accounts be equated with that of Burroughs, his
partner in the forest, when Burroughs is on records as
confirming, "I never saw anything metallic or anything hard".

And why were we led to believe for so many years by Burroughs,
Penniston and Halt, that Orfordness lighthouse would never have
fooled any of the participants, when it was known all along that
it was at least partly responsible for the UFO scare.

Although Col. Halt has on more than one occasion been contacted
and asked to comment on these matters, he has not responded.

Nonetheless, this is UFO history and an exclusive insight into
the UK's most famous UFO case.


                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


3. Trent Photographs - New High-Res Scans Available.

One of the most highly regarded UFO cases in the US remains the
`Trent' photographs.

Some background material can be seen at:

http://www.ncas.org/condon/case46.htm

A sceptical appraisal is offered by Robert Sheaffer at `The
Debunkers Domain':

http://www.debunker.com/trent.html

Central to the evidence is of course the photographs and I'm
grateful to Bruce Maccabee for providing copies of the highest
quality images yet available. I believe these are scans of the
original negatives and they can be viewed on UFO World at:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/trent1.jpg
http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/trent2.jpg


                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


4. UFO Research List.

The `UFO Research List' (UFORL) is a moderated, discussion forum
for related topics which can be evidenced to have a _scientific_
foundation, encompassing `black projects'. There are currently
around 100 subscribers.

To join UFORL, you can sign up from UFO World's home page or by
sending a blank e-mail, with a blank subject line, to:

UFORL-subscribe@listbot.com

You will then be sent a verification message and a copy of the
list `housekeeping rules'.


                          O0O~O0O~O0O~O0O


Although this newsletter is shorter than usual, the content is of
particular importance and further revelations will be held over
until the next issue!

Back issues can be obtained free of charge from UFO World's home
page.



James Easton,
Editor.

E-mail: voyager@ufoworld.co.uk
www.ufoworld.co.uk

(c) James Easton
May 2000


This message was sent by Easymail - http://www.easynet.co.uk/







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:10:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:54:31 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


Blair,

Excellent article! Folks on this list might also read the
McMinnville section of the Condon report (pgs 396-407) and view
the photos for themselves.

With a magnifying glass, many details of this flying craft
become clear. It is not a saucer but is asymmetrical and seems
to have other strange characteristics. If we conclude that these
photos are a legitimate representation of one type of alien
flying ship, and that the folks who took the photos were telling
the truth, then we might be able to also theorize about how
these machines operate.

Below is the conclusion on the analysis of McMinnville photos 1
& 2 from the Condon report:

      "This is one of the few UFO reports in which all factors
      investigated, geometric, psychological, and physical appear
      to be consistent with the assertion that an extraordinary
      flying object, silvery, metallic, disk-shaped, tens of
      meters in diameter, and evidently artificial, flew within
      sight of two witnesses. It cannot be said that the evidence
      positively rules out a fabrication, although there are some
      physical factors such as the accuracy of certain
      photometric measures of the original negatives which argue
      against fabrication."

      'The Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects',
       Dr. Edward U. Condon; pg 407; 1968

---








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                 Alleged Alien Symbols, Writing And Emblems

From: Gar Anthony <garyant@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 21:35:56 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:58:28 -0400
Subject: Alleged Alien Symbols, Writing And Emblems


Request to UFO Updates list

Dear Colleagues

I am currently collecting samples of alleged alien writing,
symbols and emblems with a view to compiling a comprehensive
database and in this endeavour I have managed so far to acquire
a number of different and interesting examples from around the
world.

If anyone knows of any cases where alleged alien symbols,
writings or emblems are reported, please mail details to
garyant@mithrand.karoo.co.uk any questions, suggestions or
comments are always welcome.

Submissions of samples of alien writings, symbols and emblems
should be accompanied by brief background details, outlining
when and where the symbols were seen, etc. Confidentiality will
be adhered to in respect of any case details that are submitted
and investigators/researchers will be fully credited for their
contributions.

It is hoped this database will be made available to the
'Ufological' community at some future date.

Would you please keep my interest in mind during your future
researches, should you find anything that you may feel is
relevant to my project. I am interested in cases with alien
symbols that have been proven or suspected as hoaxes as well as
unknowns.

No 'Star Trek' or other fictional stuff please.

All best regards

Gary Anthony








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:24:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 01:50:54 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Greetings list -

 >Source: The News-Register, McMinnville, Oregon

 >http://www.newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=115476&category=Local+News

 >McMinnville UFO photos soar the globe
 >Published: May 9, 2000
 >By Pat Forgey Of the News-Register

 >Fifty years ago, the most important event in human history
 >happened in McMinnville when a local farm couple captured
 >evidence of interplanetary visitors on film.


Blair,

Don't forget about the photo of a similar object taken by a
French pilot near Rouen, France, four years later in 1954!

Cordially,

Michel M. Deschamps









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                         UFO Photo Still Tantalizes

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 02:02:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 02:02:05 -0400
Subject: UFO Photo Still Tantalizes


Source: The Oregonian

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/news/oregonian/00/05/lc_51uf
o11.frame


UFO Photo Still Tantalizes

The picture will be celebrated, but Dayton residents say it was
no big deal

Thursday, May 11, 2000

KELLY KENNEDY of the Oregonian

DAYTON -- On the 50th anniversary of one of the most-famous UFO
sightings in history, townsfolk don't seem to understand what
the fuss is all about.

They don't understand why experts have worked for decades to
debunk the photos taken from Paul and Evelyn Trent's back yard
on May 11, 1950.

They don't have conversations at the town's single bar about
whether there is life beyond Earth.

They say they're not interested in an alien-themed ball and UFO
watch that McMenamins Hotel Oregon is throwing in McMinnville to
commemorate the event.

A month passed before the Trents gained their notoriety, in part
because the couple waited to finish the roll of film that
contained two of the most hotly debated UFO photographs ever,
the closest ever taken of an unidentified flying object and one
of the first captured on film.

A June 10, 1950, story in The Oregonian reports that Evelyn
Trent was outside feeding the rabbits on the family farm near
Dayton, about 11 miles south of McMinnville, when she saw a
strange metallic object in the sky. She yelled for her husband,
who grabbed a camera and ran outside.

The Trents told The Oregonian that the saucer came from the
northeast at about 7:45 p.m., changed direction, then slipped
out of sight. "It was like a good-sized parachute canopy without
the strings, only silvery bright mixed with bronze," she said at
the time. "It was as pretty as anything I ever saw."

When a friend saw the pictures, he hung them in his bank window,
where they drew the eye of a McMinnville reporter. From there,
the photos traveled worldwide across the news wires. Life
magazine featured them in its June 26, 1950, edition.

Kim Trent Spencer, the farm couple's granddaughter, says she
remembers talking about the UFO pictures when she was young, but
back then she didn't know the details -- that her grandmother
said she had seen UFOs before, that the object created a breeze
that blew through her grandparents' hair, or which relative
spotted the saucer first.

"We think about it every once in a while," she said. "It stays
in the back of your mind. I just remember they had a lot of
problems with people not believing them. They'd come out and
hang up hubcaps and take pictures to see if that's how they did
it."

Both of Spencer's grandparents died a couple of years ago.

Dave Sanguinetti, special events coordinator for the Hotel
Oregon, said he's not surprised about the lack of interest in
Dayton.

"It's not a real popular subject around town," he said. "You
never know -- it could have happened. The whole area is a mecca
for sightings. Seems like everyone has a UFO sighting story."

To celebrate, McMenamins is bringing in Bruce Maccabee, the
UFOlogist who investigated the photos.

"We're taking it seriously to a point because Bruce Maccabee is
going to be here," Sanguinetti said. "But we're also taking it
campily. There will be green Martians. I think it's going to be
great. I think it's going to be insane."

In a recently updated report to the Center for UFO Studies in
Chicago, Maccabee said he was unable to prove the photos were a
hoax because the image is so clear. He came to a similar
conclusion to that of photo analyst William Hartmann, who
determined that the way the light was distributed on the photo
shows it was a distant object, not a hubcap hung on a telephone
wire.

In an Air Force investigation of the UFO reports at the
University of Colorado in 1967 -- known as the Condon Report --
Hartmann determined that the evidence was "consistent with the
assertion that an extraordinary flying object, silvery,
metallic, disk-shaped, tens of meters in diameter and evidently
artificial, flew within sight of two witnesses."

Hartmann, a senior scientist at the Tucson Planetary Science
Institute, said his ideas about the analysis changed when he
learned the Trents said they had seen other UFOs. "In my mind
this reduced their credibility as follows: If their photo is
real, it is clearly an artificial object and apparently not
terrestrial, i.e. an alien spacecraft. But such objects must be
extremely rare, or we'd have better documentation by now."

Some Dayton inhabitants may not be excited about the 50th
anniversary of the event, but they do say it happened. They've
seen similar things themselves. A 1996 Newsweek poll showed that
48 percent of Americans think the government is hiding proof of
UFOs from the public.

Howard Putman, owner of Putt's Store in Dayton, said he and
several other teen-agers saw several spaceships in the late
1940s.

"We were out working a field at U.S. Alderman Farms near
Independence, hoeing corn or potatoes, and we saw five saucers
swing down, corner off, then disappear," he said. "A little
later, some military planes came over, and that's all we know.
We can't prove it or disprove it. You know, there were a lot of
things going on in the war years, so it could have been
anything."

But Putman, like many Dayton residents, hasn't joined the UFO
debate.

"They say it's a regular occurrence around here," he said. "The
Trents could've seen something. It's not a big deal,
though. If they're out there, they're out there."









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   May > May 13

              Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S Tv

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 02:11:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 02:11:17 -0400
Subject: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S Tv

Source: AlienZoo

http://www.alienzoo.com/features/x/200005080002.cfm


Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S Tv Show

What did Hollywood know about possible ancient structures on
Mars 50 years ago?

by Wiggz, AlienZoo prohibitor of dullness - 05/08/2000


The Real Mission to Mars reached a compelling close Sunday night
with a "fairy tale" from Enterprise Mission researcher Richard
Hoagland. In the all-day event�s final half-hour, Hoagland
pursued a never-before-presented line of thought that linked
"Establishment" knowledge of the face on Mars to View-Master
slides of a popular 1950s children�s TV show "Tom Corbett Space
Cadet."

For Hoagland, the TV show predicted, by 30 years, the connection
between ruined artifacts on Mars and Earth. The set of Tom
Corbett TV series View-Master slides, given to Hoagland for his
birthday in late April, triggered the Mars researcher�s
realisation of this connection. Having viewed the slides for the
first time in many years, Hoagland still wonders just how much
Hollywood knew about NASA�s theories on extraterrestrials one
half century ago.

Hoagland described the Tom Corbett slides as "a marketing tool
that was sold with a television show," which "captured the
spirit of what we all thought would happen in the out years."

Through clay figurines, the slides tell the story of the Polaris
crew�s voyage to the moon, then to Mars, then to an asteroid.

Reaching the moon, the Space Cadets discover the satellite's
"famous Moon Pyramid," and try to imagine what ancient people
erected the edifice, and for what reason. In the centre of the
red triangle is Mars, with all of its canals. In the centre of
Mars is a red dot, which the Polaris crew reads as a sign post,
the next stop in a galactic journey.

Reviewing the slides before his audience, Hoagland drew a
parallel between the fictional scene and Apollo missions'
photography of a triangular shape on the face of the moon, in
the Sinus Medii region. While this is the
most-often-photographed region of the moon, NASA, curiously
enough, never landed there.

On Mars, the crew encounters a magnificent Sphinx-like stone
lion. Carvings on the lion represent a numbering system, which
leads the crew to hunt down an asteroid. The "face" on Mars, it
should be remembered, has a partly cat-like visage.

Reaching the red asteroid, the crew finds a doorway presided
over by another apparently feline creature. Voyaging into the
tomb, Space Cadets encounter a massive record of objects,
devices, documents, and films from a long-since-vanished
civilisation. When a lever is pulled, a holographic cat is
revealed to be floating on a purple disc.

"What did they know and when did they know it?" Hoagland asked.
"Keep in mind the fundamental theme of the tetrahedral message
of Cydonia, the involvement of Mars and tetrahedrons, the whole
idea of circumscribed spheres, and the whole idea of the
specific geometry, and know that we didn�t figure it out until,
probably, 1989.

"But in 1955, somebody, somehow, somewhere knew... The artifact
that Tom Corbett and his crew go to the moon to find is a glass
tetrahedron with Mars as a sphere inside it."

Hoagland concluded that, decades ago, Hollywood was playing a
key role in teaching children about the presence of ancient
civilisations on neighbouring solar-system bodies. The rest of
society, he said, was working all along to keep the general
population in the dark.

Interestingly enough, German rocket scientist Willy Ley was the
scientific consultant for the Tom Corbett TV series. Ley, a
former German Rocket Society director who worked with Werner von
Braun, was also a consultant to Disney and sci-fi film maker
George Pal. Presumably, Ley had an inside connection to
Hollywood and the U.S.'s finest space engineers.

Presented by AlienZoo, The Real Mission to Mars was a fund raiser
for Citizens Against UFO Secrecy and The Enterprise Mission. The
event was held at the Scottsdale Centre for the Arts, in
Scottsdale, Arizona, on Sunday, May 7.


For further reference, fans of 'Tom Corbett Space Cadet' should
visit:

www.solarguard.com








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                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 01:52:19 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 03:08:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 17:16:48 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >>>I am increasingly annoyed by this cheap avenue of attack.
 >>>Please specify where in any of my Cydonia updates/editorials
 >>>have I insinuated that NASA is "doctoring" the "evidence."
 >>>Certainly one can argue that there are those who will never
 >>>be satisfied.

 >>Don't get your shorts in a knot over this one.

 >Believe me, I won't.

Good..you don't want to sound like a gulliable believer, as one
guy put it awhile ago, a "hoaglandite."

 >>I was making a general observation and if you had noticed it
 >>generally agreed with you that neither side of the debate will
 >>be happy with any results no matter what they are, no matter
 >>how perfect the photos, no matter how many times the site is
 >>photographed.

 >Yes, but you made this observation after selectively quoting
 >_my_ article! I wanted to make it as clear as possible that the
 >paranoid route is precisely the route I choose to avoid.

 ><snip>

 >>What about the so called smilie face on MARS which could be
 >>considered to be greater evidence of intelligent creation then
 >>the so called face?

 >You're joking, right? I think anyone who considers the "Happy
 >Face," which NASA dutifully shows us in an obvious effort to
 >equate it with the Face, would have to be tripping on a

With a reaction like that you are starting to close in on the
believer state rapidly.

 >significant dose of psychoactive drugs. Where is the symmetry
 >in the "Happy Face"? The internal detail? Name one aspect of
 >the "Happy Face" that would make a rational person
 >consider--even for a split-second--that it's the work of
 >intelligence. There is simply not space in this mailing to
 >enumerate (again) the evidence in favor of the Face's
 >artificiality.

Lets see now. The alleged and so called face on Mars is thought
to be authentic because it "looks" or "appears to be" like a
face.

_But_ the so called happy face which matches things created by
intelligent life on this earth is not real and therefore can't
be a work of intelligence. Interesting.

My vote is for the happy face  :)

 >The "Happy Face," as any PR person at NASA would likely tell
 >you, is a none-too-subtle attempt to divert attention from what

That may be your interpretation of the facts. Another might be
that if you photographed natural features of other planets
including earth, you are likely to see so called structures that
appear to have been created by so called intelligent life, when
in fact they are just natural structures.

 >may possibly be the "real thing." NASA doesn't think Cydonia
 >reflects evidence for artificiality. I don't think they're
 >hiding anything; the misdirected tactics they've employed to
 >discredit no-kidding scientific work on Cydonia is just politics
 >as usual.

So instead of a paranoid track, you choose the bureacratic
incompetence theory. That's a safe route to go.

 >>Many years ago I spent time going over aerial photos of the
 >>desert south west for a historical project. Looking strictly
 >>at the photos we ran across features that looked like man made
 >>structures and so on. While we were doing ground investigation
 >>we took the opportunity to look at these structures and they
 >>were very much naturally created.

 >That's a really interesting anecdote. And its relevance is...?
 >Until we commit to taking a serious look at Cydonia and
 >democratizing the data-dissemination process, accounts like the
 >above are useless. The Face may turn out to be a false alarm;

Point is that without a manned mission to MARS to investigate
the so called and alleged face the debate is going to go on for
the next 50 years. Even if and when a manned mission should go
there if they announce its just a natural feature, everybody
will whine and cry they are part of the evil NASA cover up.

 >I'm perfectly ready to concede that. But so far there is
 >insufficient evidence to support either of the two hypothesis
 >(natural v. artificial) enough to justify dismissing--or
 >irrationally elevating--the issue.

And there never will be enough evidence one way or the other. It
won't matter how many detailed high resolution photos are taken.
The bottom line on resolving the issue will be a manned mission
to the face with an actual hands on ground investigation.

 >>>And _when_ are the so-called "skeptics" going to dispense
 >>>with the demonstrated fiction that the Face formation is a
 >>>trick of lighting? I refer you to Mark Carlotto's "The
 >>>Martian Enigmas," which goes into painstaking detail about
 >>>the procedures used to demonstrate that the Face remains
 >>>facelike at virtually any lighting angle. The MGS results
 >>>are in keeping with his predictions, as illustrated in the
 >>>animated GIF posted on my website:
 >>>http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html.

 >>They are still his interpretation.

 >Carlotto's reconstructions have been duplicated by other
 >independent researchers. The Face looks like face. Does this
 >mean it's artificial? Of course not.

Glad you agree. That was the point I made above. If you started
looking around the planet earth you would likely find lots of so
called artificial looking structures in aerial photos that after
a ground investigation turn out to be natural. This would likely
be true of many planets in the solar system.

Bottom line truth. When the photos are not instantly released,
and or they don't verify everybodys pet Mars face theory, people
(in order to rationalize the inconsistancys away) will in fact
label them as being part of the evil government disinformation
campaign and or cover up.

Just watch and see.

Cheers,

Robert








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 03:11:04 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:24:31 -0400
 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >>Fifty years ago, the most important event in human history
 >>happened in McMinnville when a local farm couple captured
 >>evidence of interplanetary visitors on film.


 >Blair,

 >Don't forget about the photo of a similar object taken by a
 >French pilot near Rouen, France, four years later in 1954!

It's also interesting to remember that Phil Klass conclusively
'proved' the McMinnville phots were fakes, only to have his
'explanations' deflated by computer analysis many years later.

Mac Tonnies

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html








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             Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:38:39 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 03:23:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

<snip>

 >Reviewing the slides before his audience, Hoagland drew a
 >parallel between the fictional scene and Apollo missions'
 >photography of a triangular shape on the face of the moon, in
 >the Sinus Medii region. While this is the
 >most-often-photographed region of the moon, NASA, curiously
 >enough, never landed there.

The point Hoagland is trying to make is that "someone" already
knew about the Martian anomalies long before the Viking mission
photographed the Face, etc. He conveniently forgets that
discovering extraterrestrial artifacts on other planets was a
staple theme of science fiction of the era--and still is,
largely. The parallels he points out are interesting but
all-but-inevitable. He should know this.

The ironic thing to consider is what if the space cadet slides
were, indeed, part of some "indoctrination program" as Hoagland
predictably claims. I would have thought the People Who Know
Everything could have done a bit better than some View-Master
slides.


Mac Tonnies

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html









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                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 07:49:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:25:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 01:52:19 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 03:08:19 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

Previously, Robert wrote:

 >And there never will be enough evidence one way or the other. It
 >won't matter how many detailed high resolution photos are taken.
 >The bottom line on resolving the issue will be a manned mission
 >to the face with an actual hands on ground investigation.

  <snip>

 >If you started
 >looking around the planet earth you would likely find lots of so
 >called artificial looking structures in aerial photos that after
 >a ground investigation turn out to be natural. This would likely
 >be true of many planets in the solar system.

 >Bottom line truth. When the photos are not instantly released,
 >and or they don't verify everybodys pet Mars face theory, people
 >(in order to rationalize the inconsistancys away) will in fact
 >label them as being part of the evil government disinformation
 >campaign and or cover up.

Hello, Robert...

You know what strikes me as funny, here? On the one hand, you
accuse Mac of being one of the "paranoid" or "believers" or
"conspiracy theorists" because he simply wants the Face
formation to be investigated as NASA promised it would. On the
other hand, you display all of the traits of someone that is
either "paranoid" or a "believer" or a "conspiracy theorist",
yourself.

You just _know_ that there is a large group of people out there
that is going to gang up on NASA and react in a way that you
absolutely cannot prove until it happens with no guarantee that
it _will_ happen!

If that doesn't fit the bill as a "conspiracy theorist" then I
don't know what does!

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

I agree that a manned mission to Mars is way over-due (assuming
that's what you were getting at). On the other hand, true
"believers" won't buy any answers generated by that type of
investigation, either. Hell, there are still people that believe
we never went to the moon! So why don't we confine ourselves to
the topic at hand which is why NASA doesn't deliver on it's
promises to investigate something as provocative as the Face
Formation.

Regarding your analogy about formations on earth; they are
interesting but prove nothing. You maintain that because there
are natural formations on earth that look artificial, then there
can be no artificial structures on Mars. Why just Mars? Wouldn't
this hold true for earth, as well? Yet, if you look around, the
number of artificial structures clearly outnumber the natural
formations by a landslide (no pun intended).

Furthermore, if you look around the art world, you will find
fakes of DaVincis and Rembrandts by the hundreds. To use your
line of reasoning, there are no original masters. _Everything_
is a fake because the majority are fakes.

This is sophistic reasoning at its zenith.

Later,

Roger Evans









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:00:21 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 10:13:16 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:10:07 -0800
 >Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:54:31 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Excellent article! Folks on this list might also read the
 >McMinnville section of the Condon report (pgs 396-407) and view
 >the photos for themselves.

<snip>

 >Below is the conclusion on the analysis of McMinnville photos 1
 >& 2 from the Condon report:

 >      "This is one of the few UFO reports in which all factors
 >     investigated, geometric, psychological, and physical appear
 >      to be consistent with the assertion that an extraordinary
 >      flying object, silvery, metallic, disk-shaped, tens of
 >      meters in diameter, and evidently artificial, flew within
 >      sight of two witnesses. It cannot be said that the evidence
 >      positively rules out a fabrication, although there are some
 >      physical factors such as the accuracy of certain
 >      photometric measures of the original negatives which argue
 >      against fabrication."

 >      'The Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects',
 >       Dr. Edward U. Condon; pg 407; 1968

Ed, Blair, List:

Are you aware that the author of the Condon investigation,
above, William K. Hartmann, concluded that when he compared one
photo to another which had been taken after the photographer had
moved to another spot in the year, he found that the size of the
overhead phone wires has decreased 10%, although this value was
somewhat uncertain, and the size of the object itself had
decreased 8%.

This suggests that the object was at the same distance as the
wires and might have been a small model suspended from the
wires.  More on this can be found on Robert Sheaffer's webpage

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m12-005.shtml

Sheaffer also points to what he says might be a bundle of wire
on the overhead line directly above the UFO image, which he
thinks could be a string holding up the putative model.

Clear skies,

Bob Young







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             Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 10:48:38 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:18:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 02:11:17 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 02:11:17 -0400
 >Subject: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S Tv

 >The Real Mission to Mars reached a compelling close Sunday night
 >with a "fairy tale" from Enterprise Mission researcher Richard
 >Hoagland. In the all-day event’s final half-hour, Hoagland
 >pursued a never-before-presented line of thought that linked
 >"Establishment" knowledge of the face on Mars to View-Master
 >slides of a popular 1950s children’s TV show "Tom Corbett Space
 >Cadet."

List, anybody:

Good Lord. I remember this circular view-slide set, I think it's
still up in the attic someplace. Hoagland has now finally come
full circle. He is using science fiction to validate his
theories and claims he's now found proof that NASA (which didn't
even exist in the 1950s "knew" the truth.

The man has clearly landed on the planet of La La Land.

Clear skies,

Bob Young







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             Petition To Image Cydonia Draws 2900 Signatures In

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:09:09 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:24:07 -0400
Subject: Petition To Image Cydonia Draws 2900 Signatures In


A petition sent to NASA requesting the re-imaging of Cydonia by
the Mars Global Surveyor on the May 7th overflight got 2,910
signatures in only one week. This suggests that JPL's attempt to
manipulate public opinion with their phony Catbox "enhancement"
of the 1998 Face image has failed.

According to John Mercica, it took several months for him to get
only 1000 signatures on a petition to image Cydonia back before
the MGS mission. So it appears there may be more people
interested in Cydonia now than ever before. The latest petition
was initiated by a newly-formed Formal Action Committee for
Extra-Terrestrial Studies (FACETS) . Davic Jenks, who started
the group, directed me to a web site giving the results of the
petition at:

http://www.infosourceresearch.com/current/occupations.html

There is also an article on the petition drive at:

http://www.caus.org/pn051100.htm

What is even more encouraging than the number of signatures is
the backgrounds of the people who signed. There were significant
percentages of people in technical professions, including
astronomy and aerospace. While I'm sure that the petition drew
its fair share of "New Agers," the signatories came from all
walks of life.

Naturally, JPL has not acknowledged the petition or said whether
an image was acquired at all, consistent with their usual
furtiveness and the now-routine violation of their stated
"position" on Cydonia to announce all imaging opportunities in
advance. This must be making some of the politicized scientists
at JPL sweat, after thinking they had "scotched this thing for
good," as one of them said triumphantly after they dumped the
Catbox on the public in 1998. So many lies. So little to show
for it.







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                  Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:36:17 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:29:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image


 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 01:52:19 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: May 7 Face Image
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Lets see now. The alleged and so called face on Mars is thought
 >to be authentic because it "looks" or "appears to be" like a
 >face.

 >_But_ the so called happy face which matches things created by
 >intelligent life on this earth is not real and therefore can't
 >be a work of intelligence. Interesting.

 >My vote is for the happy face  :)


NASA's 'Happy Face' looks exactly like what it is: a crater.
Only people easily influenced by public relations hype would
think it had any strong resemblance to anything else. Sure,
there's some vague resemblance to the infantile 'Happy Face'
cartoon picture. But everything responsible for even that poor
resemblance is readily identifiable.

Even people who are completely naive about imagery and geology
would find it totally unremarkable.

It's composed of a crater rim with some totally natural-looking
ridges within the crater. There is no symmetry whatever, except
for the natural circular symmetry of the crater. This has
absolutely no relevancy to the question of the Face in Cydonia,
except as an example of the pathetically dishonest tactics of
ridicule that NASA has used to suppress public interest in
Cydonia.







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   May > May 13

                      Paul Norman Oz Ufologist Honoured

From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:59:54 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:31:32 -0400
Subject: Paul Norman Oz Ufologist Honoured


Oz & ASIA DATA RESEARCH
Phenomena Research Australia


EBK Researchers,


Australian Ufologist Honoured.

One of Australians best known and senior Ufologists Paul Norman
has been honoured in Australia's leading all states newspaper
magazine.In the Saturday 13 May 2000 edition, reporter Helen
O'Neill with photographer Nick Cubbin selected Paul as the
Magazines "Life Lines" cover story.

Paul is the Vice President of Australia's oldest and largest
operating UFO group, called the Victorian UFO Research Society
(VUFORS). Paul is a WWII USN veteran who saw action in the
Pacific. In 1963 he left the United States to live in Australia.

With 46 years of service to the subject, Paul is well known
around the world and a member of many important Australian and
Overseas organisations. He has also been for many years, the
MUFON area representative for the State of Victoria.

STORY:

http://members.xoom.com/praufo/prapeople/Australian%20Ufologist%20Honoured.htm


Regards,

John W. Auchettl - Director PRA Research

DR Ron Barnett   - Deputy Director

WEB:
http://www.praufo.web.com
* Still in development

THANKS TO:
� The Australian Magazine
Text: Helen O'Neill
Image:Nick Cubbin
13 May 2000 P9-10


Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jesus Millan Arias <jesusmillan@retemail.es>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:15:51 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:33:47 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Greetings list -

 >Source: The News-Register, McMinnville, Oregon

 >http://www.newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=115476&category=Local+News

 >McMinnville UFO photos soar the globe
 >Published: May 9, 2000
 >By Pat Forgey Of the News-Register

<snip>

Hi list,

Please,  could someone tell me if those photos are available on
the Internet?

Thanks,

Jesus








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:23:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:36:03 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:00:21 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:10:07 -0800
 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:54:31 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Excellent article! Folks on this list might also read the
 >>McMinnville section of the Condon report (pgs 396-407) and view
 >>the photos for themselves.

<snip>

 >Are you aware that the author of the Condon investigation,
 >above, William K. Hartmann, concluded that when he compared one
 >photo to another which had been taken after the photographer had
 >moved to another spot in the year, he found that the size of the
 >overhead phone wires has decreased 10%, although this value was
 >somewhat uncertain, and the size of the object itself had
 >decreased 8%.

 >This suggests that the object was at the same distance as the
 >wires and might have been a small model suspended from the
 >wires.  More on this can be found on Robert Sheaffer's webpage

 >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m12-005.shtml


Hello Bob and List,

You made a mistake while pasting the link.

The best site I have found so far on Trent photos is Mark
Cashman's:

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/500511.htm

Unfortunately, I did not find on Mark's site good displays of
the original full frame photos.  The is one good frame - though
small - at:

http://www.primenet.com/~bdzeiler/discussion/trent.htm

Does somebody know where it is possible to get good full frame
images of the 2 Trent photos?

Serge Salvaille







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:02:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:40:06 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:00:21 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:10:07 -0800
 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:54:31 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Excellent article! Folks on this list might also read the
 >>McMinnville section of the Condon report (pgs 396-407) and view
 >>the photos for themselves.

 ><snip>
 >Ed, Blair, List:

 >Are you aware that the author of the Condon investigation,
 >above, William K. Hartmann, concluded that when he compared one
 >photo to another which had been taken after the photographer had
 >moved to another spot in the year [yard], he found that the size
 >of the overhead phone wires has decreased 10%, although this
 >value was somewhat uncertain, and the size of the object itself
 >had decreased 8%.

 >This suggests that the object was at the same distance as the
 >wires and might have been a small model suspended from the
 >wires. ...

This was examined very carefully by Bruce Maccabee, and he
showed the diagram that accompanied his research on this in his
talk yesterday in McMinnville, Oregon. I believe he has this
posted on a website.

The lines of sight from Mr. Trent and his camera to the UFO in
the two photos intersected at a point well beyond the projection
of the overhead wires. This means that it couldn't have been a
model UFO hanging from the telephone wire, unless he or his wife
had had some string extending down to ground level tied to the
point of attachment of such a model, and had pulled on it after
the first photo to slide the point of attachment along the wire
several feet. Of course, no such string showed up in the
analysis of the negatives, nor any string that would have
supported a model UFO. Bruce's analysis on this allowed for the
uncertainty in diameter of the telephone wires.

Bruce also discussed what various persons who had known or
interviewed the Trents had to say about their personalities and
honesty, and none thought they had any inclinations or
motivations whatsoever for having committed a UFO hoax.

Jim Deardorff







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             Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S

From: clearlight@t-online.de (Josh Goldstein)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:08:01 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:42:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S


 >Source: AlienZoo

 >http://www.alienzoo.com/features/x/200005080002.cfm

 >Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S Tv Show

 >What did Hollywood know about possible ancient structures on
 >Mars 50 years ago?

 >by Wiggz, AlienZoo prohibitor of dullness - 05/08/2000

 >The Real Mission to Mars reached a compelling close Sunday night
 >with a "fairy tale" from Enterprise Mission researcher Richard
 >Hoagland. In the all-day event�s final half-hour, Hoagland
 >pursued a never-before-presented line of thought that linked
 >"Establishment" knowledge of the face on Mars to View-Master
 >slides of a popular 1950s children�s TV show "Tom Corbett Space
 >Cadet."

<snip>

Hi EBK and list-friends,

I'm going to sound like a cynical jerk but, to me, this is
Hoagland really pulling on a short straw. While I support Mac
Tonnes' position with his quest, Richard Hoagland never ceases
to amaze me. Of course Stanley C. Clark must have been privy to
the inner sanctum secrets to have portrayed what he described in
his books. Of course we all know that the Martian canals were
also superhighways that predated and led to the interstate
highway system. And there are no speed limits on Mars.

If anything, he wins the drama critics award for acting. He is a
show of his own. Anyone who has personally seen him describe the
superstructures on the Moon knows his greatness in the art of
drama. In the 588th act of this play, the Tom Corbitt scene, he
just did not convince me.

C'mon Richard, you can come up with a better act. How about a
tag team match with you, Mark Carlotto, NASA and JPL?


Josh Goldstein
The Happy Heathen








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 14:39:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:02:23 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:00:21 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:10:07 -0800
 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:54:31 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Excellent article! Folks on this list might also read the
 >>McMinnville section of the Condon report (pgs 396-407) and view
 >>the photos for themselves.

 ><snip>

 >>Below is the conclusion on the analysis of McMinnville photos 1
 >>& 2 from the Condon report:

 >>    "This is one of the few UFO reports in which all factors
 >>   investigated, geometric, psychological, and physical appear
 >>    to be consistent with the assertion that an extraordinary
 >>    flying object, silvery, metallic, disk-shaped, tens of
 >>    meters in diameter, and evidently artificial, flew within
 >>    sight of two witnesses. It cannot be said that the evidence
 >>    positively rules out a fabrication, although there are some
 >>    physical factors such as the accuracy of certain
 >>    photometric measures of the original negatives which argue
 >>    against fabrication."

 >>    'The Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects',
 >>     Dr. Edward U. Condon; pg 407; 1968

 >Ed, Blair, List:

 >Are you aware that the author of the Condon investigation,
 >above, William K. Hartmann, concluded that when he compared one
 >photo to another which had been taken after the photographer had
 >moved to another spot in the year, he found that the size of the
 >overhead phone wires has decreased 10%, although this value was
 >somewhat uncertain, and the size of the object itself had
 >decreased 8%.

 >This suggests that the object was at the same distance as the
 >wires and might have been a small model suspended from the
 >wires.  More on this can be found on Robert Sheaffer's webpage

 >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m12-005.shtml

 >Sheaffer also points to what he says might be a bundle of wire
 >on the overhead line directly above the UFO image, which he
 >thinks could be a string holding up the putative model.

I would have to say that the model theory has been tossed around
far too much by far too many people who haven't been able to
prove anything. The Trent photos have, by far, withstood the
test of time and expert after expert has said that the object is
a real 3-D object some distance from the camera and large in
size. A while back some guy named Max tried to say that the
photos were nothing but a street light hanging from the wires. I
guess this model theory explains why the size of the object
changes...

I talked with the Trents in person at their home sometime before
their passing. These people were by far the most genuine and
honest people I have talked to regarding a UFO case. In fact,
the Trents told me they didn't believe in UFOs, aliens or flying
saucers. They also believed the object they photographed was a
secret military aircraft and were initially scared to tell
anyone about their photos. Their recollection of events was
outstanding considering that I talked with them well over 40
years after the incident took place. I will post a transcript of
that conversation soon.

While I look for a more mundane explanation to many UFO cases,
this particular case is one of the most fascinating and most
credible. The bottom line in this is that the debunkers and
skeptics can't find a motive that supports a hoax so they'll
nit-pick and dig as deep as they can to bury this case. So far
they have failed and will continue to fail as it is apparent, in
my opinion and based on all available evidence, that the Trents
did indeed photograph something extraordinary on that day in May
of 1950.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpose: The Watchodg of UFOlogy
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3 (eXpose News - Updated)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (Hall of Frauds,Dirtbags,Dupes
and Morons)









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:07:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:05:30 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:24:31 -0400
 >>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>>Fifty years ago, the most important event in human history
 >>>happened in McMinnville when a local farm couple captured
 >>>evidence of interplanetary visitors on film.

 >>Blair,

 >>Don't forget about the photo of a similar object taken by a
 >>French pilot near Rouen, France, four years later in 1954!

 >It's also interesting to remember that Phil Klass conclusively
 >'proved' the McMinnville phots were fakes, only to have his
 >'explanations' deflated by computer analysis many years later.

 >Mac Tonnies

 >http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html


Dear Mac,

The photos were never "conclusively proven" to be fakes. Simply
that Phil Klass "noted" some discrepancies between Paul Trent's
testimony and his wife's, which Dr. Bruce Maccabee was already
aware of. These photos have survived every single attack, even
by people more qualified than Phil Klass.

Plus the fact that the photo taken by a French pilot while
flying over Rouen, France four years later, validates the Trent
Photos.

Cordially,

Michel M. Deschamps








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                                Cash/Landrum

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 23:42:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:13:48 -0400
Subject: Cash/Landrum


Hi Errol, Hi all

I received this response from a person who visited my website. I
thought you guys (an gals) might be interested.

Of course the chap asked for confidentiality.

--------
Cash/Landrum, outside Houston, TX 1979

I work in the United States for a large company. One of the
people in the company is a person who I chatted up with for a
time who was also in the airforce back in 1984. She described an
experimental aircraft, triangular in shape, that used a basic
antigravitational system that was powered by and atomic engine
(of some kind). It caused a large cylndrical ring to rotate in
the craft. She called it a "flying wing." She claimed that the
craft could hover but the antigrav part of the device was
ineffecient and cause the craft to 'wobble' when hovering. For
main propulsion they used conventional jet or rocket thrusters -
she was not specific.

My source told me that she was in signalling for the U.S.
airforce at a base in the south with an above top secret
clearance. She also said the project was moved off the air base
after a period of time. You may well be able to find evidence of
the project in some files. She also mentioned that the antigrav
device would have had to have been many times larger than it was
to be efficient - hence the flakiness in the hovering
capability. I'm sorry I am unable to give you more detailed
information. But it is likely that this story may have more
terrestrial origins, and certainly more sinister outcomes, than
is publicly known. Military complexes should take responsibility
for damaging the people they are sworn to protect.

--
   In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
             Sean Jones
        http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:32:30 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:17:05 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:23:44 -0700
 >From: Serge Salvaille <sergesa@rocler.qc.ca>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:00:21 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Hello Bob and List,

 >You made a mistake while pasting the link.


Ed, Serge, List:

Oops.  The correct link for Sheaffer's page on the McMinnville pixs is
http://www.debunker.com/trent.html


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:48:05 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:19:56 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:02:45 -0700
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >>Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:00:21 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>This suggests that the object was at the same distance as the
 >>wires and might have been a small model suspended from the
 >>wires. ...

 >This was examined very carefully by Bruce Maccabee, and he
 >showed the diagram that accompanied his research on this in his
 >talk yesterday in McMinnville, Oregon. I believe he has this
 >posted on a website.

Jim, Bruce, List:

Anybody know where this website is?

<snip>

 >Bruce also discussed what various persons who had known or
 >interviewed the Trents had to say about their personalities and
 >honesty, and none thought they had any inclinations or
 >motivations whatsoever for having committed a UFO hoax.

I appreciate that people may have opinions about the Trents'
honesty, good reputations, or whatever. But, knowing what we
all do about human nature, etc., and the history of the subject
of UFOs, how can we take seriously someone's opinion that
another person, whom they may have known only through an
interview, has had no motivations whatsoever for committing a
hoax?

What does anyone really know about another's motivations?

Clear skies,

Bob Young








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   May > May 14

             Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s

From: Jsmortell@aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 22:11:57 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:21:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s


 >Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:38:39 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s Tv Show
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

 ><snip>

 >>Reviewing the slides before his audience, Hoagland drew a
 >>parallel between the fictional scene and Apollo missions'
 >>photography of a triangular shape on the face of the moon, in
 >>the Sinus Medii region. While this is the
 >>most-often-photographed region of the moon, NASA, curiously
 >>enough, never landed there.

 >The point Hoagland is trying to make is that "someone" already
 >knew about the Martian anomalies long before the Viking mission
 >photographed the Face, etc. He conveniently forgets that
 >discovering extraterrestrial artifacts on other planets was a
 >staple theme of science fiction of the era--and still is,
 >largely. The parallels he points out are interesting but
 >all-but-inevitable. He should know this.

 >The ironic thing to consider is what if the space cadet slides
 >were, indeed, part of some "indoctrination program" as Hoagland
 >predictably claims. I would have thought the People Who Know
 >Everything could have done a bit better than some View-Master
 >slides.

Dear Mac, Errol and Everyone...

They did do better than some View-Master Slides, lots better;
they gave us Uncle Hoagie.  Isn't it great?

Jim Mortellaro









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                      Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 5-13-00

From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:25:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:24:38 -0400
Subject: Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 5-13-00


----------------------------------------------------------------
                     Jeff Rense Weekly E-News
----------------------------------------------------------------

                         The Week Ahead
                      5-14-00 thru 5-20-00

            Guests, Announcements, Week's Top Stories
                        From sightings.com

                Jeff Rense E-News is distributed
                exclusively by Free Subscription.

                  --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                      * GUEST CORNER *

             �Aliens and the Galactic Neighborhood�
                        by Peter Farley

A few months ago I sat in a hotel room with a handful of other
people and watched a �man�, a bi-product of the Montauk
experiments, morph his face into what turned out to be every
�person� he had ever been during his lifetimes in this Universe.
Among those faces were the various aliens he had ever been�here
the yellow-eyed demonic kind, there a red-eyed face with ridges
where there should normally have been cheeks, strange facial
structures, odd head shapes�all-in-all a one man Star Wars
galactic bar.

A human-alien hybrid in this lifetime, he was created to work in
the multi-dimensional time experiments related to the
Philadelphia Experiment. All his life this man had been hounded
by the Secret Government�harassed, tormented, and persecuted�for
the knowledge he contained within his mind and, even more, within
his genes. Like an X-Files episode, he was a �mistake� the
government wanted to cover up.

Just a few short weeks ago, I had the pleasure of working with
one of the abductees dealt with in Constance Clear�s book
�Reaching For Reality.� This abductee worked with the aliens on a
nearly day-to-day basis. Although she was quite used to it, there
were still times in her life in which she felt she was being used
against her will.

Then, two weeks ago, I sat with the representative of the
Galactic Federation on Earth at the Prophet�s Conference in Santa
Fe, NM, and discussed what had brought so many high levels beings
together to attend this particular conference. Seemingly there
were more prophets in the audience than there were on stage at
this event. Everyone of these special people I spoke with agreed
that it was a meeting on a higher dimensional level of beings,
drawn from all over the world, to discuss the current precarious
future of the human race.

The most recent statistics suggest that more than 57 percent of
Americans believe in UFOs, while fifteen percent say they have
seen a UFO, and 5 percent say they have been abducted. When you
take a step into the world of a UFO researcher such as myself,
there is no question about the alien presence on the Earth � nor
its constant involvement with human affairs on an ongoing basis.
The thing that scares me, however, is when I hear that 86 percent
of those who believe in aliens say they think that aliens are
friendly. Now that kind of blanket attitude really scares me. Go
back and watch the old TV mini-series �V,� and then think again.

The metaphor I like to use when speaking of aliens is our
�neighbors� and our �neighborhood.� And just as in our local
neighborhoods here on Earth, there are some neighbors who are
friendly, there are some who are not. Do you get along with all
your neighbors? Do you like everyone who lives around you? No.
Are all of them honest and forthright? No. And that is the way it
is in the Universe too. While we may be on one of the lowest
rungs of galactic existence�it doesn�t mean there aren�t others
who have some of the same problems we experience here on Earth.
As one abductee said to me, the aliens don�t all like each other,
sometimes they just have to work together. That is the idea of a
Federation of Planets ala the Federation in Star Trek. It is well
known that Gene Roddenberry , the show�s creator got many of his
ideas from channeled material from a galactic group calling
themselves �The Nine.�

The book I am currently working on, �Where Were You Before the
Tree of Life?�, details this alien interaction with planet Earth
which has helped both create and shape the problems we have are
currently having, and have had  here on Earth, since long before
what we like to call �recorded history.�

Like amateur voyeurs we like to peek at our neighbors and
hypothesize about what it is they are doing and what their
motives are instead of accepting our place in their community and
going out and being a part of the communal planning meetings that
so desperately affect us at this time and in this stage of our
growth.

It�s time for us to wake up folks and stop asking are they real?
Stop listening to misinformation and work with those among us who
are already in touch so that we may find out how we can educate
ourselves, and take our rightful place in the larger galactic
neighborhood to which we belong.
----
Peter Farley is a metaphysical researcher who resides in Roswell,
NM. He has recently been named as the fourth major speaker for
this year�s Roswell UFO Festival and Star trek convention to be
held in Roswell, June 30 through July 7. His e-mail address is
peter6264@hotmail.com.

                  --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

         THE INVENTIONS, RESEARCHES AND WRITINGS OF TESLA

     Ten years of Tesla's lectures, miscellaneous articles,
    discussions and inventions through the year 1894.496 pg

        http://www.hiddenymsteries.com/redir/index0.html

                  --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

      "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the
      ability to learn from the experience of others, are
      also remarkable for their apparent disinclination
      to do so."                                - Douglas Adams

                  --<>--  --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                      * TOP STORIES *

           Just a few of last week's most intriguing!
                      http://sightings.com

* McMinnville UFO Photos 50 Years Later - Still A Mystery
* Thirty Years Of Alien Invasions - In The Movies
* Korean War Massacre Story NOT True
* 'Love-Bug' Virus Damage Set At $10 Billion - 20 Countries Hit
* Of Casolaro, Murder, The Octopus, And The Island Of Dominca
* Brit Gulf War Vet Says His Child Now Has Gulf Illness, Too
* Coast Guard Threatens To Fire On Russian Fishing Ship Over
         Drift Net Fishing
* Caribbean Whale Strandings Linked to Navy Activities
* Herpes Linked To Alzheimer's - New Evidence
* Los Alamos Fire - FEMA Asks Russia For Two Giant
          Water Bombers
* IRS Answers Questions About Legality Of The Income Tax
* Waco - FLIR Gunshot Proof...See For Yourself
* Chupacabras Attack More Farms In Chile
* Update - Environmental Cause (?) Of Illness In Pahrump
          And The Southwest
* Pahrump, Nevada - Booming Community...In Diseases, Too
* What We Learned From Area 51 Satellite Photos
* The Pill Caused Unprecedented Marital Breakdown In
          Western World
* Arkansas Mystery Fireball Crash Of 3-9-00 - 'Case Closed' (?)
* Blood Cells And Biologicals Found In Chemtrail Ground Sample
* New Jules Verne Book Discovered - Now Published 100 Later
* Jules Verne's Incredible, Shockingly Dark Vision Of
           Modern Life
* Is Obesity An Infectious Disease?
* Water Is A Basic Human Right - Or Is It?
* Man Guilty Of Molesting Sheep - Faces 15 Years
* Los Alamos Evacuates Under Wildfire Threat - Explosives
           Said Safe
* Recreational Ritalin - Kids Now Using It for 'Fun'
* UFOs And Beams Of Light Over Argentina
* Sheriffs Report - Columbine Slaughter Over In Half Hour -
           Witnesses Disagree
* Earth Orbital 'Burials' Available - Moon Internments Next
* Police Pepper Spray & Stun Devices Labeled 'Torture' By
           Amnesty International

Read these stories and more at http://www.sightings.com

                 --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                 Superb books by L.A. Waddell

Aryan Origin Of The Alphabet
The Indo Sumerian Seals Deciphered
Egyptian Civilization: Its Sumerian Origin
Phoenecian Origin Of The Britons, Scots And Anglo-Saxons

      http://www.hiddenymsteries.com/redir/index0.html

                  --<>--  --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                  * THIS WEEK'S GUESTS *
                        5-14 thru 5-20

(Please note Jeff's Guest schedule can change due to late
breaking stories, etc).

SUN 5-14
    pending

MON 5-15
    Jim Marrs:  UFOs, Remote Viewing, And NWO

TUE 5-16
    Bill McDonald:  ET/UFO Historical Timeline

WED 5-17
    Carl Limbacher:  'Inside Cover' NewsMax.com
    Linda Howe:  World Environment Update

THU 5-18
    Dr. Louis Turi:  Divine Astrology Readings

FRI 5-19
    From Australia - Diane Harrison: Oz UFO Report
    Ken Kalb - Millennium Shift

Live Real Audio Broadcasts & Archives: http://www.sightings.com

                   --<>--   --<<<+>>>--  --<>--

                       David H. Lewis books

Hidden Mysteries of the Pyramid, Beyond Our Galaxy, The Universal
Oneness, Cities of the Inner Earth, Days Before Tomorrow,
Survival of the Remnant   http://www.hiddenmysteries.com

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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 01:17:40 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:35:19 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:00:21 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 10:13:16 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
 >>Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:10:07 -0800
 >>Fwd Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:54:31 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Excellent article! Folks on this list might also read the
 >>McMinnville section of the Condon report (pgs 396-407) and view
 >>the photos for themselves.

<snip>

 >Below is the conclusion on the analysis of McMinnville photos 1
 >& 2 from the Condon report:

 >>   "This is one of the few UFO reports in which all factors
 >>   investigated, geometric, psychological, and physical appear
 >>   to be consistent with the assertion that an extraordinary
 >>   flying object, silvery, metallic, disk-shaped, tens of
 >>   meters in diameter, and evidently artificial, flew within
 >>   sight of two witnesses. It cannot be said that the evidence
 >>   positively rules out a fabrication, although there are some
 >>   physical factors such as the accuracy of certain
 >>   photometric measures of the original negatives which argue
 >>   against fabrication."

 >>   'The Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects',
 >>   Dr. Edward U. Condon; pg 407; 1968

 >Are you aware that the author of the Condon investigation,
 >above, William K. Hartmann, concluded that when he compared one
 >photo to another which had been taken after the photographer had
 >moved to another spot in the year, he found that the size of the
 >overhead phone wires has decreased 10%, although this value was
 >somewhat uncertain, and the size of the object itself had
 >decreased 8%.

The difference in size of the object is actually closer to 14%,
not 10%.

My own computer analysis indicates a curious "coincidence" that
also comes out to close to 14%. A distant object in level flight
will not only decrease in angular size as it moves away, but
also drop in angular elevation. If you compare photo 2 (smaller
size object) with photo 1 (larger size object), you will notice
that the object is indeed lower in angular elevation in the
second photo.

There is a simple mathematical relationship between the angular
elevations and the relative angular size of the object that is
predicted from a distant object in level flight. If A is the
angular elevation of the object in photo 1 and B is the angular
elevation in photo 2, then:

   relative angular size of the objects = sinA/sinB

As it turns out, when angles A and B are measured, the ratio
sinA/sinB is very close to the measured relative difference in
size to within a few percent. The small discrepancy between the
two ratios can easily be explained through a combination of
measurement error and/or a slight departure from true level
flight. E.g., if a distant object rose a few feet between photos
1 and 2, then the ratios would come out the same.

Another interesting factoid arises from analyzing the azimuthal
change in angle between the two photos. It turns out this can be
explained by an object flying due west. By "due west" I mean to
within about 1 or 2 degrees of due west, which again would be
well within my measurement error.

Then, of course, Trent the hoaxer would also have to get the
relative lightness values of the top of object and the shaded
bottom just right so that they were similar to the relative
lightness values of distant objects, such as a house about a
thousand feet away. That was a key part of Hartmann's
photometric analysis of the photos that led him to conclude that
the photos were of a distant object, and therefore genuine.

So "all" Trent had to do to hoax the photos was 1) suspend his
"model" from the overhead wire (but leave no trace of the
suspension thread on the negatives), then 2) swing his model in
such a way that the elevation change in the model almost exactly
matched the image size change expected for a distant object in
level flight, 3) also exactly swing the model so that it also
matched the course expected of a distant object flying due west,
4) get the relative luminances of the top and bottom just right
so that it also matched what would be expected of a distant
object, 5) do all this in just 2 successive snapshots, and 6)
get his story to exactly match what is seen in the photos.

That poor dirt-farmer Trent had to be both the cleverest and
luckiest hoaxer of all time.

 >This suggests that the object was at the same distance as the
 >wires and might have been a small model suspended from the
 >wires. More on this can be found on Robert Sheaffer's webpage

Nope.

 >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m12-005.shtml

 >Sheaffer also points to what he says might be a bundle of wire
 >on the overhead line directly above the UFO image, which he
 >thinks could be a string holding up the putative model.

"Might?" How about "no way!?" I have searched in vain for
Sheaffer's imaginary "bundle of wire." All I can see is what
looks like a photo defect just above one of the wires in the
first photo. If you look at the same spot on the second photo,
the spot isn't there. Funny how Sheaffer forget to mention that
point.

There are similar small specks of dirt or photo defects all over
these pictures. One, e.g., can be seen just above the wires of a
power pole about 150 feet away from where Trent took his photos.
I suppose Trent tied another string there as well to stabilize
his "model."

Ironically, it turns out the infamous overhead wire also helps
to disprove another of Sheaffer's arguments against the
authenticity of the photos. The Trents claimed that the photos
were taken shortly before sunset, or when the sun was in the
west. But there are rafter shadows on the east wall of the
garage in the photos.

How can this be? Sheaffer claims that this proves that the
photos were really taken in the morning in direct sunlight when
the sun was in the east. If the Trents "lied" about this, then
they must have lied about everything else as well.

Well, not really. Such anomalous shadows can also be cast by
indirect sunlight scattered off of clouds to the east. I have
even personally seen such shadows cast when there were _no_
clouds in the east, and where direct sunlight was blocked by the
setting sun by a dark cloud. The eastern sky, however, was lit
up by sunlight passing over the cloud and scattering off of
atmospheric dust in the east.

If Sheaffer were right about the direct sunlight, the phone pole
across the street in the first photo should show strong
illumination on its eastern side and strong shadowing on its
western side. But there is no such shadowing. Instead the pole
is evenly illuminated. Strange how Sheaffer missed that obvious
test of his theory.

But back to the infamous overhead wire. It turns out that in
direct sunlight from the east, the wire should have cast a very
distinct shadow on the garage wall and the oil tank in front of
the wall. But there is no such shadow. Ergo another line of
argument that the lighting had to be diffuse and
Sheaffer is wrong.

 >Clear skies,

Probably not, at least when the Trent photos were taken.

David Rudiak







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                        Tonight On WBAI's 'UFO Desk'

From: Paul Williams <paulw@escape.com>
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:15:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:18:47 -0400
Subject: Tonight On WBAI's 'UFO Desk'


All,

I would like to invite all to listen to the next installment of
'UFO Desk', tonight/tomorrow morning at 01:00 a.m., New York
[Eastern] time.

The guest is Ms. Ann Andrews of England. Ms. Andrews' son Jason
has had ongoing abduction experiences. It was through her son
that she found out that she herself is also an experiencer.

Listen as she shares her intriguing story. You won't want to
miss this.

You can hear UFO Desk on the web, by visiting the UFO Desk web
site:

www.anomalies.net/~ufodesk

Scroll to bottom of page just under 'Out There' graphic
banner. Look for 'Listen To WBAI'.

Hope you can check it out. This is a story unlike any you've
heard.

Paul Williams

www.anomalies.net/~ufodesk

ICQ 32519151









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   May > May 14

                            Tracing Tracy Torme?

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:55:56 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:25:07 -0400
Subject: Tracing Tracy Torme?


Dear colleagues,

I just wondered if anyone could help me locate a snail mail
addrers, e-mail address, or a fax number for Trace Torme.

If you could help, please contact me direct at:

pmquest@dial.pipex.com

Many thanks,

Philip Mantle.









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             Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S

From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:29:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:52:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S


 >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:08:01 +0000
 >From: clearlight@t-online.de (Josh Goldstein)
 >Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50S Tv Show
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hi EBK and list-friends,

 >I'm going to sound like a cynical jerk but, to me, this is
 >Hoagland really pulling on a short straw. While I support Mac
 >Tonnes' position with his quest, Richard Hoagland never ceases
 >to amaze me. Of course Stanley C. Clark must have been privy to
 >the inner sanctum secrets to have portrayed what he described in
 >his books. Of course we all know that the Martian canals were
 >also superhighways that predated and led to the interstate
 >highway system. And there are no speed limits on Mars.

<snip>

In my recent "humorous" and somewhat cynical post regarding
Hoagland's recent escapade, I, of course meant Arthur C. Clark,
not Stanley Clark, the musician. I was in between a sound check
and our concert yesterday. My mind was drifting between UFOs and
music. An interesting state.

Cynically speaking, I note that I use the particular human
psychological trait that I used when I wrote Hoagland, not
Richard Hoagland above. The trait is that when a person seems to
be out to lunch they tend to get demoted to only a last name in
my writing. I'm sorry, but I can only laugh at Hoagland's
antics. His masterwork was his show before the National Press
Club in Washington a few years ago. It convinced them about as
much as if they had looked through a viewmaster.


Josh Goldstein
An Earth alien











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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:16:48 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:29:45 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 01:17:40 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >The difference in size of the object is actually closer to 14%,
 >not 10%.

I just downloaded the two photographs from:

http://www.ncas.org/condon/plate23.htm
http://www.ncas.org/condon/plate24.htm

I measured the width of the object in both images and got a size
ratio of 1.2. Maybe the images have been enlarged differently,
which would make that measurement invalid. But the images are
the same size, so one or both would have to have been cropped if
the enlargements are different. As for the telephone wires, all
I think can really be said of them is that they are somewhat
darker in the first photo than in the second. The wires are
apparently only a few times larger than the resolution of the
camera and are between two and three pixels wide in both the
images I downloaded  The measurement uncertainty for these
photos is probably greater than the imagined 10% difference in
the thickness of the wires.

<snip>

 >>Sheaffer also points to what he says might be a bundle of wire
 >>on the overhead line directly above the UFO image, which he
 >>thinks could be a string holding up the putative model.

 >"Might?" How about "no way!?" I have searched in vain for
 >Sheaffer's imaginary "bundle of wire." All I can see is what
 >looks like a photo defect just above one of the wires in the
 >first photo. If you look at the same spot on the second photo,
 >the spot isn't there. Funny how Sheaffer forget to mention that
 >point.

Some people can look at smudges on Apollo photographs and see
alien bases or moon clouds. Others can look at a dot on a photo
and see a tangle of wires. It's interesting how the extremists
on both sides of these questions come to resemble each other. Of
course, "skeptics" would argue that it's not as credulous to see
things that aren't there as long as they're prosaic things. But
at least the "loonies" tend to latch on to much more interesting
photographic defects than this dot on the Trent photo.

 >Ironically, it turns out the infamous overhead wire also helps
 >to disprove another of Sheaffer's arguments against the
 >authenticity of the photos. The Trents claimed that the photos
 >were taken shortly before sunset, or when the sun was in the
 >west. But there are rafter shadows on the east wall of the
 >garage in the photos.

Having looked at these photos, I'm confused as to what people
are claiming to be shadows of rafters. There is a dark
horizontal strip immediately under the eaves of the roof. That
might be a shadow or it might just be the part of the wall where
the paint color hasn't faded as much of the rest of the wall
because it was protected from direct sunlight by the overhanging
roof. The wall is mostly blocked by the water tank. The garage
is cut off at the left edge in both images. Again, I'm not sure
if these images have been cropped so I might be missing
something.

I see three long dark streaks running horizontally near the top
of the tank. There are three beams running along the top right
edge of the roof, two of them sloping up toward the peak of the
roof and the third attached horizontally to the wall of the
building.

I think these streaks are most likely dirt or rust; there are
several more similar but smaller streaks lower down on the tank,
most of them also horizontal. The streaks are too irregular in
brightness and shape to be shadows from the straight roof beams.
Any shadows cast by those beams should be running mostly in the
vertical direction across the tank. If the sun azimuth was
perpendicular to the wall (i.e., east of the east-facing wall),
there should have been no shadows at all from those beams on the
tank.









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   May > May 14

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:15:04 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:31:35 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:07:02 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 02:05:30 -0400
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:24:31 -0400
 >>>From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 ><<snip>

 >>>>Fifty years ago, the most important event in human history
 >>>>happened in McMinnville when a local farm couple captured
 >>>>evidence of interplanetary visitors on film.

 >>>Blair,
 >>>Don't forget about the photo of a similar object taken by a
 >>>French pilot near Rouen, France, four years later in 1954!
 >>>It's also interesting to remember that Phil Klass conclusively
 >>>'proved' the McMinnville phots were fakes, only to have his
 >>>'explanations' deflated by computer analysis many years later.

 >>>Mac Tonnies
 >>>http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.htmlDear

 >Mac,

 >The photos were never "conclusively proven" to be fakes. Simply
 >that Phil Klass "noted" some discrepancies between Paul Trent's
 >testimony and his wife's, which Dr. Bruce Maccabee was already
 >aware of. These photos have survived every single attack, even
 >by people more qualified than Phil Klass.
 >Plus the fact that the photo taken by a French pilot while
 >flying over Rouen, France four years later, validates the TrentPhotos.


Michel & List:

The List members can view both of these photos here:

Condon:

http://www.ncas.org/condon/pl-23-40.htm

http://www.ncas.org/condon/plate26b.htm


Rouen:

http://212.186.113.12/azb9152a/ufo.html

http://212.186.113.12/azb9152a/ufo_53.jpg


It's to be noticed that the superstructure/antenna/tower, seen
on top of both of the saucers (craft), appears to be off-center
in both of the photos, and slightly "bended", or non-symmetrical
structure, in the Trent photo - but not in the Rouen photo (but
this can be due a different angle of view).

Overall, the two saucers seem somewhat different i construction,
with the Rouen saucer a little bit slimmer/flatter in
appearance.

Should these photos, one or both, be hoaxes, it's not impossible
that both of these saucers are real, small saucers/plates,
suspended in a _horizontal_, thin, strong wire (guitar string
type) attached to the saucer in/through the top
structure/antenna/tower, which again is attached to the "bottom"
of the saucer (saucer/plate upside-down) through a hole in the
saucer metal/china, using a screw/bolt, and with the
wires/strings fastened to two trees/buildings in the vicinity,
on both sides (left and right) of the photo, just outside the
picture frame. (However, I don't know how thick such "guitar
strings"/wires should be to sustain the weight of a saucer, and
the weight of the long wire itself; it might be fairly thick
though .....)

But I really don't know why the superstructure/antenna/tower
should be placed off-center on the bottom of a real, small
plate/saucer, hanging upside- down, and why - at least - one of
the "antennas" should be/appear non- symmetrical in design,
looking slightly "bended". Locating the superstructure/ antenna
just in the middle of a real plate/saucer should be fairly easy
though.

But, in any case, this is just speculation.......

Regards,
Asgeir








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   May > May 14

             Tonight On 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Ted Phillips

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:57:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:57:07 -0400
Subject: Tonight On 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Ted Phillips

   ----------------
  /// Ted Phillips
-----------------

Our guest tonight is considered to be the world's leading expert
on Physical Traces found at alleged UFO-landing sites. In the
past 30 years, he has personally investigated over five hundred
UFO reports. In 1975 he compiled 'The Physical Trace Catalog',
published by the Centre For UFO Studies, and a revised edition
published last year, contains over 2200 events from over five
thousand cases, representing alleged UFO landings in 79
countries. He believes that after over thirty years of
investigation, the data indicates a non-terrestrial origin to
the UFO phenomena.

Ted has an interesting CV which contains, among other info:

- Director, The Centre for Physical Trace Research

- A Research Associate, J.Allen Hynek Center for UFO Studies

- A staff member of The Mutual UFO Network

- Physical Trace Advisor, National Investigations Committee on
   Aerial Phenomena [NICAP]

- Field Engineer, Minuteman Missile Project

- Participant, Vanguard Satellite Tracking Program

- Engineering Inspector

- And the author of numerous scientific papers and Physical
   Traces Associated with UFO Sightings.


Join Ted, and co-host Mike Woods and I, along with callers at
21:00 Eastern, as we discuss these Strange Days... Indeed on:

News Talk Radio Toronto - CFRB 1010 AM - 50,000 watts

CFRX in the 40 Metre band at 6070khz Shortwave

and the Eureka Digital Broadcast System in Toronto.

For those of you having difficulties in connecting to CFRB's
server via the web, please note the connection info below...

You can also listen via Media Player by opening the
player and pasting the following URL into 'File'/'Open':

http://cfrb.com/cfrb.asx

and connect ahead of time - the site gets really busy.

To call the program dial:

On-Air     [1] 416-872-1010
            1-800-561-CFRB [In Ontario]
            *TALK [local mobiles]










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                Sightings: Special Guest Update - On The 3rd

From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:34:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:01:49 -0400
Subject: Sightings:  Special Guest Update - On The 3rd


             * Tonight, Sunday May 14th - 8 pm Pacific *

        To discuss the Third Prophecy of Fatima 'revelation'
        by the Pope will be:

               From Oz - Stan Deyo and
                         author Kathleen Keating:
                        'The Final Warning'

    NOTE: Just as this was being released, Stan & Holly Deyo's
    newsletter on the upcoming show appearance was forwarded to
    us.  It has been included below.

-------------------------------------------------

Sightings Program Show Times
         Live Coast-To-Coast-now broadcast nationally
         over the Talk Radio Network a total of over
         200 hours a month.
    Monday-Friday
         7-10 pm  Live
         10-1 am  Immediate Rebroadcast
          1-3 am  First 2 hours of prior night's show
    Saturday
         9p-3 am  Best Of Rense - 2 shows
    Sunday
         8-11 pm  Live
Call in Line:
         800 TRN 4123

--------------------------------------------------

Judging by the number of emails pouring in from both lists, we
see there is tremendous interest in the Fatima secret.

Someone forwarded to Jeff Rense of Sightings
http:www.sightings.com our newsletter commentary on the Third
Secret of Fatima. As you might remember, we mentioned Kathleen
Keating's interesting information she presented in interviews.
Jeff contacted Stan and Kathleen and both will be on Jeff's "End
of the Line" radio program this Sunday.

If you are not within Jeff's live listening audience, you can
listen on-line. Show time is Sunday 8pm-11pm Pacific.

Also, before the mailing this morning, I omitted one interesting
fact about the Third Secret of Fatima which included in our
on-line posting of the newsletters which is this:

During one of the interviews with Malachi Martin, Stan faxed
into Art Bell a message stating what he had been told by the
Jesuit about the secret and Malachi Martin confirmed its
veracity on-air.

There was a bit of silence after that confirmation.

Last, our web site http://www.millennium-ark.net is fully
functioning again. Please visit for latest updates and
additions. Thank you Dan for all the hard work!

With affection,
Holly and Stan
Seismo and Taco
--
AUSTRALIAN site:      http://www.ballarat.net.au/~standeyo/
AMERICAN sites:        http://www.millennium-ark.net
                                    http://buddyebsen.com/standeyo/
Emergency Preparedness:
http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/Hollys.html








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:11:45 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:03:52 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:07:02 -0400
 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Dear Mac,

 >The photos were never "conclusively proven" to be fakes.
 >Simply that Phil Klass "noted" some discrepancies between Paul
 >Trent's testimony and his wife's, which Dr. Bruce Maccabee was
 >already aware of. These photos have survived every single
 >attack, even >by people more qualified than Phil Klass.

Michel,

I agree with you. I was being rather sarcastic about Klass'
self-proclaimed expertise about everything ufological. To be
fair, I guess you're right that he "noted," not claimed to have
"proven," inconsistencies in the Trent phots. But given his
completely unscientific position that "all UFO sightings can be
explained prosaically," I interpret his observations as implied
proofs.

I also think the French photograph counts as something like
corroborating evidence. The Trent photos are, in my opinion,
some of the most bullet-proof in the history of the phenomenon.
I don't think they were hoaxed, and it's to ufology's credit
that they have been subjected to analysis that had the potential
to deflate their significance as evidence.

Mac Tonnies

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:16:18 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:05:41 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:15:04 +0200
 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >But I really don't know why the superstructure/antenna/tower
 >should be placed off-center on the bottom of a real, small
 >plate/saucer, hanging upside-down, and why - at least - one
 >of the "antennas" should be/appear non- symmetrical in design,
 >looking slightly "bended". Locating the >superstructure/
 >antenna just in the middle of a real plate/saucer should be
 >fairly easy though.

I don't think the Trent photos are fakes. I don't know enough
about the French case to offer an opinion, other than that I
agree that it looks a little sportier than the McMinnville
saucer.

Perhaps the slightly "bent" mast on top of the Trents' UFO is
not due to a manufacturing defect, but a gravitational field
emanating from the craft (assuming it's the real thing).

Mac Tonnies
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html










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   May > May 15

                        Microwave Auditive Phenomenon

From: Joaquim Fernandes <jfernan@esoterica.pt>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:48:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:07:46 -0400
Subject: Microwave Auditive Phenomenon


Dear list members,

I would like to know the "state of art" related to the so-called
"microwave auditive phenomenon", which has been stablished among
others by Dr. James C. Lin and associates at the Canadian
Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, in the 80's.

According our research about the Fatima apparitions 197 and its
effects from the original documents it could be possible to
explain some features, as the "buzzing" sound noticed by the
local witnesses, as a side effect of an external microwave
source.

This could be replicated in the laboratories.

My question is: who has any information about theorical and
experimental aspects both in medicine, biology and physics of
this phenomenon and their researchers?

Thank you for your help.

Joaquim Fernandes
University Fernando Pessoa
Porto
Portugal








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:05:12 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:26:55 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Lan Fleming <apollo18@swbell.net>
 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:16:48 -0600
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:29:45 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >>Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 01:17:40 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>The difference in size of the object is actually closer to 14%,
 >>not 10%.

 >I just downloaded the two photographs from:

 >http://www.ncas.org/condon/plate23.htm
 >http://www.ncas.org/condon/plate24.htm

 >I measured the width of the object in both images and got a size
 >ratio of 1.2. Maybe the images have been enlarged differently,
 >which would make that measurement invalid.

I believe that is the case. The enlargements aren't equally
scaled. My 14% figure is from Bruce Maccabee's direct
measurements off the negatives, which is probably the most
definitive.

 >But the images are
 >the same size, so one or both would have to have been cropped if
 >the enlargements are different. As for the telephone wires, all
 >I think can really be said of them is that they are somewhat
 >darker in the first photo than in the second. The wires are
 >apparently only a few times larger than the resolution of the
 >camera and are between two and three pixels wide in both the
 >images I downloaded The measurement uncertainty for these
 >photos is probably greater than the imagined 10% difference in
 >the thickness of the wires.

Bruce Maccabee also did photometric measurements of the wires
off the negatives, and as I recall got a size difference of
around 6%.

Uncertainty is introduced in these relative size measurements
because it is impossible to determine _exactly_ where an edge
is. E.g., in photo 2, the right trailing edge of the "saucer" is
indistinct, which would be due to motion smear of an object
moving to the left while the shutter was open. (Incidentally,
that would also be completely consistent with the Trent's story
that the object was moving rapidly to the left, or west, at the
time.)

<snip>

 >>>Sheaffer also points to what he says might be a bundle of wire
 >>>on the overhead line directly above the UFO image, which he
 >>>thinks could be a string holding up the putative model.

 >>"Might?" How about "no way!?" I have searched in vain for
 >>Sheaffer's imaginary "bundle of wire." All I can see is what
 >>looks like a photo defect just above one of the wires in the
 >>first photo. If you look at the same spot on the second photo,
 >>the spot isn't there. Funny how Sheaffer forget to mention that
 >>point.

 >Some people can look at smudges on Apollo photographs and see
 >alien bases or moon clouds. Others can look at a dot on a photo
 >and see a tangle of wires. It's interesting how the extremists
 >on both sides of these questions come to resemble each other. Of
 >course, "skeptics" would argue that it's not as credulous to see
 >things that aren't there as long as they're prosaic things. But
 >at least the "loonies" tend to latch on to much more interesting
 >photographic defects than this dot on the Trent photo.

Agreed. The main point here is that the various "dots" are not
reproducible between the two photos, proving that they are
nothing more than random schmutz on the photos. But leave it to
a debunker to take what is nothing more than an obvious photo
defect and turn it into "evidence" of hoaxing.

 >>Ironically, it turns out the infamous overhead wire also helps
 >>to disprove another of Sheaffer's arguments against the
 >>authenticity of the photos. The Trents claimed that the photos
 >>were taken shortly before sunset, or when the sun was in the
 >>west. But there are rafter shadows on the east wall of the
 >>garage in the photos.

 >Having looked at these photos, I'm confused as to what people
 >are claiming to be shadows of rafters. There is a dark
 >horizontal strip immediately under the eaves of the roof. That
 >might be a shadow or it might just be the part of the wall where
 >the paint color hasn't faded as much of the rest of the wall
 >because it was protected from direct sunlight by the overhanging
 >roof. The wall is mostly blocked by the water tank. The garage
 >is cut off at the left edge in both images. Again, I'm not sure
 >if these images have been cropped so I might be missing
 >something.

The eave shadows are difficult to see in most reproductions of
the Trent photos. (The indistinctness of the shadows is yet
another indication that the shadows were not the result of
bright direct sunlight, as Sheaffer claims). The horizontal
strip you refer to I believe is a trim board just above the
tank. The shadows in question are just to the left of the eaves
and just below the roof edge (the roof's edge also casts a faint
horizontal shadow).  The lowermost extent of the eave shadows
is just above the top of the horizontal strip you mention.

 >I see three long dark streaks running horizontally near the top
 >of the tank. There are three beams running along the top right
 >edge of the roof, two of them sloping up toward the peak of the
 >roof and the third attached horizontally to the wall of the
 >building.

 >I think these streaks are most likely dirt or rust; there are
 >several more similar but smaller streaks lower down on the tank,
 >most of them also horizontal. The streaks are too irregular in
 >brightness and shape to be shadows from the straight roof beams.
 >Any shadows cast by those beams should be running mostly in the
 >vertical direction across the tank. If the sun azimuth was
 >perpendicular to the wall (i.e., east of the east-facing wall),
 >there should have been no shadows at all from those beams on the
 >tank.

The streaks on the tank have nothing to do with the eave
shadows.

Look above the tank and the horizontal strip at the top of the
wall for the eave shadows.

Another interesting point I discovered when I modeled the scene
in a computer ray tracing program is that the eave and roof
shadows cannot be reproduced at any time of the morning on May
11 (the day the Trents say the photos were taken). For the
shadows to have been cast by direct morning sunlight (Sheaffer's
hypothesis), one has to go back an entire month to around April
10, plus or minus a few days.

When I checked weather records, I discovered that the Pacific
Northwest, already notorious for its rainfall, was having record
rainfall at that time. There would have been very little
opportunity for Trent to have taken his photos around the April
10 window.

If Sheaffer's hypothesis was correct, not only would the Trents
have had to lie about the time of day when the photos were
taken, they would also have had to lie about the time of year.
I honestly don't see why they would bother to do either. How
would it contribute to the believability of a hoax?

Such arguments are pretty much academic anyway. Other physical
evidence in the photos clearly points to the shadows being the
result of indirect or scattered sunlight, not direct sunlight.
There are no hard shadows anywhere in the photos (e.g., the
power pole across the street which is evenly illuminated). The
overhead wire does not cast a shadow on the oil tank and garage
wall, as it should in direct sunlight. And Bruce Maccabee found
the roofline and eave shadows to be much too diffuse to be the
result of direct sunlight.

I have seen such anomalous, reverse shadowing a number of times
now. The conditions under which this can occur are fairly
common. In the case of the Trent photos, with the sun almost
setting in the west, all that was needed was something like a
small dark cloud in the west blocking direct sunlight. Light
could still pass over the cloud and be scattered off of dust or
clouds in the east.

This could create a fairly even ambient illumination for objects
out in the open, such as the power pole in the photo1. It shows
no shadowing.

But the eastern garage wall would be shielded from any
illumination from the west. Diffuse scattered light from the
east would therefore generate weak eave and roofline shadows on
the upper garage wall.

While Sheaffer's arguments about the eave shadows had some
merit, they really don't stand up to scrutiny. Neither do any
of his other objections to the Trent photos.

David Rudiak







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   May > May 15

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:26:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:44:47 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:16:18 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Regarding the McMinnville photos:

My paper published in the Center for UFO Studies 1976 symposium
proceedings.

It is available at:

www.mcmenamins.com

When you get to the front page click on Hotel Oregon (the
location of th Trent 50th anniversary retrospective, May 11,
2000. Scroll down and you will see the Trent case mentioned with
links to photos and technical data.

Soon... I hope - I will publish on that web site my paper 'The
Mcminnville Photos', originally published by the Center for UFO
Studies in the Spectrum of UFO Research, 1989. This has not been
"easy" to get ahold of. Furthermore, there will be updates to
that paper. It discusses all the materal _not_ in the first
paper including cloud shadows, weather, etc.









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   May > May 15

                      Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'?

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:51:26 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 00:58:48 -0400
Subject: Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'?



From: Barry Chamish

Hello,

Two days ago, May 12, I gave a two hour interview about my new
book 'Return Of The Giants' on the Jeff Rense Sightings radio
show. Jeff and I spoke as we reviewed the information on my web
site at http://members.tripod.com/~ufoisrael.

Today, I checked the site. Here is what I received.

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /~ufoisrael/ on this server.

Additionally, a 302 Found error was encountered while trying to
use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Folks, I've been shut down.

If you want to hear about my work, the only alternative right
now is to visit my publisher's site at:
bookworldinc@earthlink.net

and make inquiries.

An outrage has taken place.

Best,

Barry Chamish








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   May > May 15

             Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:02:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s


 >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 21:08:01 +0000
 >From: Josh Goldstein <clearlight@t-online.de>
 >Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s Tv Show
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >C'mon Richard, you can come up with a better act.
 >How about a tag team match with you, Mark Carlotto,
 >NASA and JPL?

Josh,

As far as good science goes, Carlotto's not even remotely in the
same league as NASA/JPL and Hoagland. Of the three, Carlotto has
proven conistent, nonsensational, honest and accessible. I think
he's a model scientist. NASA, with its unofficially adopted
policy of denying its own stated "positions", doesn't deserve
someone with his integrity.

Mac Tonnies

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html











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   May > May 15

                      Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:45:46 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:04:18 -0400
Subject: Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon

Greetings list -

Even though it doesn't have anything to do with UFOs, I thought
some of you would find this interesting.


From: http://www.space.com/news/spacehistory/nuke_moon_000514.html

Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon
posted: 11:16 am ET
14 May 2000

The U.S. Air Force developed a top-secret Cold War plan to
detonate a nuclear bomb on the Moon in the 1950s.

In a letter to the journal Nature physicist Leonard Reiffel,
leader of the effort which was called Project A119, wrote that
the Air Force wanted to explore the effects of exploding a
nuclear bomb on the Moon�s face. The Air Force wanted the
explosion to be clearly visible from Earth.

Reiffel wrote that the military leaders did not seem concerned
with the loss to science that would have resulted from a large
atomic explosion on the Moon�s surface. Let alone what it may
have done to the appearance of the "man in the moon."

Part of the team researching the hypothetical explosion was a
young Carl Sagan, who was recruited to study how the mushroom
cloud would expand and collapse under the Moon�s lighter
gravity. Sagan proposed that a legitimate scientific purpose for
the explosion could have been examining the cloud for possible
organic material.

Years later, Sagan apparently presented some of the results of
his research on the project in an application for an academic
fellowship. Reiffel believes that by doing so Sagan breached
national security, as the primary secret of the project was its
very existence. This breach of security was discussed in a
recent biography of the astronomer, but was not detailed in that
book.

Striking the Moon with one of the then-available ICBMs was
entirely feasible, Reiffel wrote, to an accuracy within a couple
of miles.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com







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                    Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:38:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:38:16 -0400
Subject: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt


Hi Errol, Hi All,

First, Nick has only received 15 responses/samples from the more
than 30 original volunteers. We'll give the 'lazy bones' two
more weeks to submit them so we can complete the analysis.
Please, if you volunteered, submit your samples ASAP. Thank you.

Next: I've been electronically 'hustled!'

Fellow list members and especially website masters should pay
close attention to the following. I'm sure many already know
about this kind of thing, but it was 'new' to me and I figure
maybe there are others on the list who may get caught with
their knickers down if they are not aware of it.

My website has been, for all intents and purposes, 'ripped off' by
the kind people over at the "SilverMoon" website! What they do is,
they ask you if they can put up a "link" to your site. If you give
your consent, your entire website then becomes a 'linked feature'
(within) their (SilverMoon) website!

In other words, they don't 'send' visitors over to your website.
Instead, they _internally_ link to it and play it on _their_
server - within _their_ website. It is not _your_ URLs that
appear in the browser header at the top of _your_ pages... it
is theirs! They literally (and barefaced) _capture_ your entire
website wholesale and simply 'play it' for visitors on theirs.

21st Century "cattle rustling!" No more, no less. The worst part
is, they don't _tell_ you that that is what they are doing to
you. These low life's simply survive by ripping off the hard
work of others. The way they assure 'hits' for their own website
is by (incorporating/corralling) existing popular sites and
fixing it so that if anyone tries to bookmark one of _your_
pages, they end up back at SilverMoon _not_ the website you
yourself sweated over and have to pay for out of pocket! It's
not just a theft of your creative work, you're paying for the
bandwidth that they are taking/using. Some cohones eh?

This is the URL for these jerks:

http://www.SilverUFO.cjb.net

I have _demanded_ that they remove any and all links to A.I.C.
If _your_ website is listed with them, I strongly suggest that
you look into this yourself and take whatever action you choose
on your own behalf. At the least, as a webmaster, you should let
them know what you think of such practices. You should check to
make sure it hasn't already been done to you!


To the website masters at SilverMoon:

Hi Greg,

If you're going to rob me... you better be holding a gun to my
head! Plagiarizing people is no way to make new friends and
gain respect.

Lose the links to A.I.C. immediately!

Seriously pissed off at having been ripped off for my hard work
and fooled.


Please, be sure to let these dolts know what _you_ think. In the
name of exposing crap like this so it doesn't happen to you or a
friend, send all e-mail to: Greg White at SilverMoon.

silvermoonufo@juno.com

Regards to All,

John Velez, Website master, A.I.C.
--
______________________________________________
                     A.I.C. - Abduction Information Center -
                      www.spacelab.net/~jvif/default.htm
                                    jvif@spacelab.net
  "Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind."
______________________________________________







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               Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:57:17 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 08:45:56 -0400
Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed


Science Fiction and Possible Alien Artifacts on Mars:
Richard Hoagland's Recent Claims Analyzed

by

Mac Tonnies


The latest 'conspiracy' to hit the Net concerning possible
suppression of space-science knowledge is author Richard
Hoagland's recent 'revelation' that a set of View-Master reels
depicts a leaked agenda of Mars 'secrets'. Such a claim deserves
to be looked at; given NASA's incomprehensible reticence to
'come clean' with their agenda re. the Mars Global Surveyor's
mission objectives, it's not completely unreasonable to look for
possible 'leaks'. Given the Kafkaesque circumstances, it's only
natural to turn to sources other than NASA for confirmation of
our suspicions.

However, Hoagland has looked in the wrong place. The reels he
cites as evidence of a secret Cydonian indoctrination program
are segments from a serialized science fiction adventure series
from 1955--decades before the Viking mission discovered evidence
for the anomalies under investigation. So it would appear
Hoagland's claim is decidedly 'fringe' from the start; it's
predicated on the assumption that NASA (or some other space
agency) has not only been aware of the Cydonian enigma for much
longer than history would allow, but is confident enough in its
estimation of the mystery to begin a pop-cultural
indoctrination, plugging specific ideas at the science
fiction-reading demographic of 1955 in hopes of steering our
psychosocial acceptance of artificial structures on Mars (and
elsewhere).

Hoagland's reasoning is exquisitely absurd. In the View-Master
slides he enthusiastically referred to at his recent
fund-raiser, a team of plastic astronauts voyages to the Moon
and discovers a pyramidal artifact containing a scale model of
the planet Mars. Hoagland maintains that this is beyond
coincidence, and that the symbolic references to Mars and
pyramids (specifically tetrahedrons, which many argue are
inferred by mathematical alignments at Cydonia) prove a hidden,
behind-the-scenes knowledge of the features at Cydonia, as well
as a roughly triangular crater on the Moon documented by
Hoagland several years ago during his investigation of alleged
"crystalline ruins" visited by the Apollo astronauts.

Alien artifacts on the Moon and Mars are nothing new in science
fiction. It comes as no surprise to me that there once existed a
series centered around the discovery of "Mars-like" artifacts on
the Moon. Arthur C. Clarke's famous short story "The Sentinel"
describes a very similar situation, complete with pyramidal
overtones. It should be noted that Hoagland, in his increasingly
desperate quest for evidence, completely overlooks 'The
Sentinel'--and the movie based upon it, "2001: A Space Odyssey."

One wonders right away why Hoagland would devote any time at all
to an obscure View-Master drama when "2001", with its lavish
detail and illustrious cinematic history, is so near at hand. I
suspect ignoring "The Sentinel" as 'evidence' for Hoagland's pet
theories is because citing a well-known movie would immediately
make him look foolish. (After all, science fiction is generally
based on science fact--even if loosely--rather than the other
way around.) But the View-Master reels are just obscure enough
that Hoagland can feel relatively comfortable "discovering"
them, and in so doing creating the albeit tenuous illusion that
he's 'onto something'.

A close look at the purported 'symbolic parallels' between the
View-Master reels and the real mystery at Cydonia, however,
makes it quite clear that Hoagland is onto nothing at all. The
science fiction genre is littered with references to pyramids on
other planets, a theme that achieves a certain romantic aura
since we tend to think of the Pyramids of Egypt when we hear the
word "ruin". Pyramids are the archetypal "ruin", and as such
lend themselves nicely to stories of extraterrestrial discovery.

I personally own a copy of an obscure, long out-of-print
paperback called--get this--"Puzzle of the Space Pyramids." Its
cover features an astronaut wandering the sands of Mars with
enormous pyramids looming in the background--a 'parallel' that
outdoes any of the alleged symbolism in Hoagland's Martian
odyssey. I have little doubt that, if faced with "Puzzle of the
Space Pyramids" and some ancient View-Master reels about finding
artifacts on the Moon, Hoagland would have sprung for the former
to back up his fragile, nonsensical claims.

("Puzzle of the Space Pyramids" isn't the only story I can think
of that features pyramids on Mars. Another well-known story is
Stanley Weinbaum's "A Martian Odyssey." And as long as we're
being paranoid, why not include Ray Bradbury's "The Martian
Chronicles" as part of the conspiracy? After all, Bradbury's
Martians built sprawling, glass cities suspiciously similar to
the "highly geometric glass ruins" hyped to the point of inanity
on Hoagland's "Enterprise Mission" website. But why stop there?
Let's add "Total Recall," which featured an alien pyramid on
Mars, any number of "Star Trek" episodes, all the Tatoine
sequences from "Star Wars" that look vaguely Martian... Hoagland
has created a "conspiracy" that knows no bounds, and threatens
to constitute the whole of Space Age pop-culture if taken to its
logical extreme.)

Michael Bara, writing on his Lunar Anomalies site, depicts
Hoagland's delivery of the "View-Master Chronicles" as a
mesmerizing and awe-inspiring event never to be forgotten, and
goes on to challenge the skeptics to "explain this one!"

Not to pat myself on the back too hard, but I think I just have.


Mac Tonnies
http://www.geocities.com/macbot/mtvi.html







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:41:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:50:47 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:48:05 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>Bruce also discussed what various persons who had known or
 >>interviewed the Trents had to say about their personalities and
 >>honesty, and none thought they had any inclinations or
 >>motivations whatsoever for having committed a UFO hoax.

 >I appreciate that people may have opinions about the Trents'
 >honesty, good reputations, or whatever. But, knowing what we
 >all do about human nature, etc., and the history of the subject
 >of UFOs, how can we take seriously someone's opinion that
 >another person, whom they may have known only through an
 >interview, has had no motivations whatsoever for committing a
 >hoax?

 >What does anyone really know about another's motivations?

Of more importance is the fact that everyone who knew the Trents
tioldme that the idea of a hoax was beyond them... they just
didn't have the mental capacity to think of anything outside
their range of daily activities.

This will be expressed in more detail when my second large paper
is published on the site:

www.mcmenamincs.com

where the first paper's already published in part.








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   May > May 15

                  UFO Sighting OZ File 00707 06.05.2000 WA

From: Diane Harrison Director AUFORN <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 00:55:26 +1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:54:58 -0400
Subject: UFO Sighting OZ File 00707 06.05.2000 WA

 >From: Diane Harrison Director AUFORN <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
 >To: simonhw@webace.com.au
 >Subject: 1800 Callin Code: 00707 06.05.2000 WA
 >Date: Saturday, May 06, 2000 9:55 PM

 >1800 Callin Code: 00707 06.05.2000 WA

 >Date:6th.05.2000
 >Day: Saturday
 >Time Reported. 9.38pm
 >Location: Perth
 >Report given to nearest rep: Simon Harvey Wilson UFORUM WA
 >Tel: 08 9246


Followup by Simon Harvey Willson UFORUM
Callin Code: 00707 06.05.2000 WA

Monday 15th May 2000

I phoned the man at the number below. He said that the UFO
sighting he wished to report happened to his 35-year-old son in
the week after the cyclone in Broome, WA, earlier this year. The
son was driving towards Paraburdoo, which is just north of the
Tropic of Capricorn and south of Karratha and Port Hedland in
the Hamersley Range area of WA. He was driving at night and saw
a red light ahead of him. The light paced his car no matter what
speed he drove at. After some time he stopped because he felt
the light was playing games with him, and because he realised he
had bent his steering wheel by gripping it so hard. The light
also stopped about 500 metres ahead of him. The witness then
decided he had enough, so planted his foot and accelerated
towards the light. The red light then rose into the air, changed
into a white light and produced a spotlight beam down towards
the road. It then went up further into a storm cloud which it
seemed to illuminate from the inside for a while, and then it
disappeared.

When the witness reached the next petrol station stop he asked a
lady there if anyone else had seen anything similar. At first
she seemed reluctant to comment but later opened up and said
that other people had had several similar sightings in that
area.

The father commented that the son was not worried about the
sighting, but they were both interested to know about any
similar ones.

Best wishes
Simon Harvey-Wilson
________________________________


Thank you Simon for this followup :>)

----------



Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood Qld 4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
         1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>






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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:27:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:55:49 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


Has anyone noticed the similarity between these UFO photos and
the new Pizza Hut logo?

Terry






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                    Re: Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 13:47:44 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:57:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon


 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:45:46 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Greetings list -

 >Even though it doesn't have anything to do with UFOs, I thought
 >some of you would find this interesting.

 >From: http://www.space.com/news/spacehistory/nuke_moon_000514.html

 >Air Force Had Plans to Nuke Moon
 >posted: 11:16 am ET
 >14 May 2000

 >The U.S. Air Force developed a top-secret Cold War plan to
 >detonate a nuclear bomb on the Moon in the 1950s.

 >In a letter to the journal Nature physicist Leonard Reiffel,
 >leader of the effort which was called Project A119, wrote that
 >the Air Force wanted to explore the effects of exploding a
 >nuclear bomb on the Moon’s face. The Air Force wanted the
 >explosion to be clearly visible from Earth.

 >Reiffel wrote that the military leaders did not seem concerned
 >with the loss to science that would have resulted from a large
 >atomic explosion on the Moon’s surface. Let alone what it may
 >have done to the appearance of the "man in the moon."

 >Part of the team researching the hypothetical explosion was a
 >young Carl Sagan, who was recruited to study how the mushroom
 >cloud would expand and collapse under the Moon’s lighter
 >gravity. Sagan proposed that a legitimate scientific purpose for
 >the explosion could have been examining the cloud for possible
 >organic material.

 >Years later, Sagan apparently presented some of the results of
 >his research on the project in an application for an academic
 >fellowship. Reiffel believes that by doing so Sagan breached
 >national security, as the primary secret of the project was its
 >very existence. This breach of security was discussed in a
 >recent biography of the astronomer, but was not detailed in that
 >book.

 >Striking the Moon with one of the then-available ICBMs was
 >entirely feasible, Reiffel wrote, to an accuracy within a couple
 >of miles.


It is entirely within the parameters of governmental/military
insanity to do. Not to do it would be shocking.

As far as Sagan in concerned, he was a consultant on the OAO
spacecraft early on and having met him along with Henry Courten
and other astronomers, was impressed with his political and
business savvy. This was a man who even in the mid sixties, was
headed to the stars without ever leaving this planet. It was
something you felt in his presence.

Which brings to mind a question. What were his motives in what
he did and said regarding life in the Universe, UFO's and other
controversial issues?

Jim Mortellaro







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                  Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt

From: SMiles Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:59:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:05:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt


 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:44:24 -0400
 >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny HuntDate: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:44:24 -0400
 >From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >Subject: Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hi Errol, Hi All,

Howdy John & all,

 >First, Nick has only received 15 responses/samples from the more
 >than 30 original volunteers. We'll give the 'lazy bones' two
 >more weeks to submit them so we can complete the analysis.
 >Please, if you volunteered, submit your samples ASAP. Thank you.

So did Nick get mine yet? I sent it at least a month ago.

 >Next: I've been electronically 'hustled!'

<snip>

 >This is the URL for these jerks:

 >http://www.SilverUFO.cjb.net

 >I have _demanded_ that they remove any and all links to A.I.C.
 >If _your_ website is listed with them, I strongly suggest that
 >you look into this yourself and take whatever action you choose
 >on your own behalf. At the least, as a webmaster, you should let
 >them know what you think of such practices. You should check to
 >make sure it hasn't already been done to you!

Umm...

Firstly, if they were doing this they have stopped; I just
visited that URL via Netscape and Explorer and did not
experience the phenomena you describe. The main page had links
to everything from Fortean Times online to your site and back
again. Each of these links I clicked on took me precisely to the
specified URL, with no apparent hijacking at all. So either you
intimidated them to revise the entire website in a keystroke or
just witnessed the wrath of the internet's trickster side.

I know of a fellow New Yorker who has experienced "strange"
browser problems involving being forced to surf the web thru a
set of frames written in French tho' their browser preferences
were not set to anything but English and it was an American
website s/he was viewing.

This is not perhaps as negative or precisely devious as you
assume; it obviously violates your moral compass and I can
respect that. However, the technique you speak of (routing
another website thru' their own) is not an uncommon practice
thru' the use of html frames. As a website creator you are
probably familiar with them and how anyone can use a link from
your own website to another one but have it displayed in a
frameset which gives the impression the website is part of your
own. This is a common technique to keep people from browsing off
and away from your own site. (There are even more annoying
techniques I dislike such as not allowing you to use the back
feature on your browser - you have to go to your history menu to
go back to the previous page. Or what about those annoying pop
up porno ads which multiply as you try to back out of their
site? Sheesh!)

While I appreciate your angst against this sort of alleged
shameless attempt by Silver Moon, if what you described was
accomplished with the use of html frames, then it is as easy for
any general user of the Web to simply click or right-click your
mouse button to cue the pop-up browser menu (on Mac and PC both
Netscape and IE) and click on 'open frame in a new window' and
watch as the actual URL is brought up in a new browser window
from which you can then bookmark/mark a favorite for the actual
URL.

Sincerely,

SMiles







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             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed

From: Mike Bara <mbara@uswest.net>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:47:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:34:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed


[Non-subscriber Post --ebk]

 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:57:17 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed
 >To: UFO UpDates <updates@sympatico.ca>

In the years I have worked with Richard Hoagland, I have come
across many harsh critiques of his work. Uniformly, I have found
them to be baseless and ignorant. I addressed this issue in an
article on my web site called "Where is the informed criticism
of Richard Hoagland?" See:

http://www.lunaranomalies.com/whereis.htm

Over the years, I have developed a fairly thick skin for this
nonsense. Despite the fact that Hoagland once admonished me for
"suffering fools poorly" I have learned, especially since the
Robert AM Stephens idiocy, to let most of this go without
comment. That said, occasionally I get something across my desk
that is so utterly fallacious that I cannot help but respond. A
case in point is the recent "critique" by Mac Tonnies regarding
the recent 'Tom Corbett' View Master reels presented by Richard
Hoagland in Phoenix.

In the interest of fairness, I thought I would offer my response
to this particular 'analysis'.

Tonnies starts out this way:

 >However, Hoagland has looked in the wrong place. The reels he
 >cites as evidence of a secret Cydonian indoctrination program
 >are segments from a serialized science fiction adventure series
 >from 1955--decades before the Viking mission discovered evidence
 >for the anomalies under investigation. So it would appear
 >Hoagland's claim is decidedly 'fringe' from the start; it's
 >predicated on the assumption that NASA (or some other space
 >agency) has not only been aware of the Cydonian enigma for much
 >longer than history would allow, but is confident enough in its
 >estimation of the mystery to begin a pop-cultural
 >indoctrination, plugging specific ideas at the science
 >fiction-reading demographic of 1955 in hopes of steering our
 >psychosocial acceptance of artificial structures on Mars (and
 >elsewhere).

This is of course, exactly what we have been saying for some
time, so it is difficult to ascertain just what he perceives the
problem to be here. In the "Table of Coincidence":

http://www.enterprisemission.com/table_of_coincidence.htm

for instance, we cite a case of these recurring ritual
alignments around the imaging of Cydonia on 35A72. The
implication from this is obvious: That NASA already knew there
was something "down there" at Cydonia before they took the
picture. As to the notion of "pop-cultural indoctrination", this
is exactly what the 'Brooking's Report' at:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/brooking.html

calls for. We are merely implying that this policy was already
in place four years before it's inclusion in the official
Brooking's document.

He goes on:

 >Hoagland's reasoning is exquisitely absurd. In the View-Master
 >slides he enthusiastically referred to at his recent
 >fund-raiser, a team of plastic astronauts voyages to the Moon
 >and discovers a pyramidal artifact containing a scale model of
 >the planet Mars. Hoagland maintains that this is beyond
 >coincidence, and that the symbolic references to Mars and
 >pyramids (specifically tetrahedrons, which many argue are
 >inferred by mathematical alignments at Cydonia) prove a hidden,
 >behind-the-scenes knowledge of the features at Cydonia, as well
 >as a roughly triangular crater on the Moon documented by
 >Hoagland several years ago during his investigation of alleged
 >"crystalline ruins" visited by the Apollo astronauts.

 >Alien artifacts on the Moon and Mars are nothing new in science
 >fiction. It comes as no surprise to me that there once existed a
 >series centered around the discovery of "Mars-like" artifacts on
 >the Moon. Arthur C. Clarke's famous short story "The Sentinel"
 >describes a very similar situation, complete with pyramidal
 >overtones. It should be noted that Hoagland, in his increasingly
 >desperate quest for evidence, completely overlooks 'The
 >Sentinel'--and the movie based upon it, "2001: A Space Odyssey."

 >One wonders right away why Hoagland would devote any time at all
 >to an obscure View-Master drama when "2001", with its lavish
 >detail and illustrious cinematic history, is so near at hand. I
 >suspect ignoring "The Sentinel" as 'evidence' for Hoagland's pet
 >theories is because citing a well-known movie would immediately
 >make him look foolish. (After all, science fiction is generally
 >based on science fact--even if loosely--rather than the other
 >way around.) But the View-Master reels are just obscure enough
 >that Hoagland can feel relatively comfortable "discovering"
 >them, and in so doing creating the albeit tenuous illusion that
 >he's 'onto something'.

These next paragraphs are laughable. It is obvious that he has
never read 'Monuments' or been to the Enterprise web site, or if
he has, he conveniently has forgotten the relevant passages.
Hoagland extensively discussed "The Sentinel" in Monuments, as
well as other stories from Heinlein and others and has commented
many times on the relevance of '2001' in his many appearances on
the Art Bell program. In addition, on the occasion of the 30th
anniversary of 2001, he posted on his web site a page
reinforcing the connections between Cydonia and '2001',
including the statement from Clarke that the Monolith was
originally going to be a black tetrahedron. See:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/arthur30.html

It is obvious that this guy has not done even the most
rudimentary amount of homework on this subject.

 >A close look at the purported 'symbolic parallels' between the
 >View-Master reels and the real mystery at Cydonia, however,
 >makes it quite clear that Hoagland is onto nothing at all. The
 >science fiction genre is littered with references to pyramids on
 >other planets, a theme that achieves a certain romantic aura
 >since we tend to think of the Pyramids of Egypt when we hear the
 >word "ruin". Pyramids are the archetypal "ruin", and as such
 >lend themselves nicely to stories of extraterrestrial discovery.

Except that when people think of pyramids, they invariably think
of the Giza type, like we see at Cydonia on the base of the
Western Pyramid. See:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/mars/cas-comp.jpg

The Pyramids depicted in the View Master reels are specifically
tetrahedral, linking them with Hoagland's model of Cydonia. If
these pyramids in the story were not tetrahedral, a type rarely
seen, then it would not be quite such a big deal. Given the
influence of the science advisors involved with making of these
reels, which we will reveal in a new article to be posted
tonight or tomorrow, it becomes obvious that this was no mistake
or coincidence. The makers of these reels had a tetrahedral
message to send, whether Mr. Tonnies likes it or not.

 >I personally own a copy of an obscure, long out-of-print
 >paperback called--get this--"Puzzle of the Space Pyramids." Its
 >cover features an astronaut wandering the sands of Mars with
 >enormous pyramids looming in the background--a 'parallel' that
 >outdoes any of the alleged symbolism in Hoagland's Martian
 >odyssey. I have little doubt that, if faced with "Puzzle of the
 >Space Pyramids" and some ancient View-Master reels about finding
 >artifacts on the Moon, Hoagland would have sprung for the former
 >to back up his fragile, nonsensical claims.

 >("Puzzle of the Space Pyramids" isn't the only story I can think
 >of that features pyramids on Mars. Another well-known story is
 >Stanley Weinbaum's "A Martian Odyssey." And as long as we're
 >being paranoid, why not include Ray Bradbury's "The Martian
 >Chronicles" as part of the conspiracy? After all, Bradbury's
 >Martians built sprawling, glass cities suspiciously similar to
 >the "highly geometric glass ruins" hyped to the point of inanity
 >on Hoagland's "Enterprise Mission" website. But why stop there?
 >Let's add "Total Recall," which featured an alien pyramid on
 >Mars, any number of "Star Trek" episodes, all the Tatoine
 >sequences from "Star Wars" that look vaguely Martian... Hoagland
 >has created a "conspiracy" that knows no bounds, and threatens
 >to constitute the whole of Space Age pop-culture if taken to its
 >logical extreme.)

 >Michael Bara, writing on his Lunar Anomalies site, depicts
 >Hoagland's delivery of the "View-Master Chronicles" as a
 >mesmerizing and awe-inspiring event never to be forgotten, and
 >goes on to challenge the skeptics to "explain this one!"

 >Not to pat myself on the back too hard, but I think I just have.

Again, it is hard to understand what he bases this tirade on. We
have kept our citations to these View Master reels and 2001, for
the most part. These are not general citations of 'Pyramids',
but only references to specifically "tetrahedral" examples.
Every 'fact' upon which he bases his "analysis" of our
presentation is based is demonstrably wrong.

The connections we have cited are not tenuous and do not require
any sort of speculation on our part. The information in the View
Master reels is neither general nor in need of interpretation.
It shows flatly that there are artificial ruins on the Moon and
Mars, that the key to figuring out those ruins is the
tetrahedron, and that Tom Van Flandern's 'Exploded Planet
Hypothesis' is accurate. Each of these is explicit, not implied,
in the data we present.

Despite the fact that Tonnies analysis is at best badly flawed,
factually incorrect, we invite him and all readers to check out
our web site. Later this evening I will send an new article to
Keith Rowland. If he is able to post it by tonight, it will
expand upon the themes already presented and show some new
evidence that this View Master Reel is anything but a
"coincidence".

The question now before us is not whether or not this new data
is valid. It's now down to "What did they know, and when did
they know it?"

Mike Bara







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   May > May 15

                    Re: Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'?

From: Mike Beaver <yoda@foxinternet.net>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:49:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:46:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'?


 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:51:26 +0000
 >From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >Subject: Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >From: Barry Chamish

 >Hello,

 >Two days ago, May 12, I gave a two hour interview about my new
 >book 'Return Of The Giants' on the Jeff Rense Sightings radio
 >show. Jeff and I spoke as we reviewed the information on my web
 >site at http://members.tripod.com/~ufoisrael.

 >Today, I checked the site. Here is what I received.

 >Forbidden

 >You don't have permission to access /~ufoisrael/ on this server.

 >Additionally, a 302 Found error was encountered while trying to
 >use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

 >Folks, I've been shut down.


Dear Barry:

I'm not sure what's going on with your provider, but... there's
nothing currently wrong with your site. I just came from there
and it's working just fine.

The type of forbideen error you are getting is a typical problem
on _your_ side. I suggest that you clear your brower cache. This
usually fixes that problem. I have had the same problem with
mine and other pages. The first time I saw it was when I was
trying to reach

www.altavista.com

and got redirected to another web page. Typically this is caused
by a javascript file in your browser's cache. These are files
with a .js extension. Netscape normally uses two of these types
of files in its normal operations. If you deleted those
particular files they would be re-created when re-initializing
the browser.

But, when you are browsing, just like other image files these are
downloaded from pages you have visited.

In Netscape the cache folder is typically in C:\program
files\netscape\users\your user name here (or the word default)\cache. In
Internet Explorer it's typically in C:\windows\temporary internet files.

The easiest way to clear the cache in Netscape is to go into the
netscape browser then on the top of the screen click
edit/preferences/advanced/cache; then clear both the disk and
memory caches. I'm not sure which of these clears that
particular cache.

In Internet Explorer it's - at the top of the screen -
view/internet options/delete files (in the Temporary Internet
Files section of that box that pops up).

Try not to get paranoid about all of this. It's easy for any of
us, including myself, to do.

It's a felony to mess with someone's web page. Yet I had someone
delete my entire web site about 6 or 8 months or so ago.
Fortunately I was able to bring it back on line in about 30
minutes.

Have a good one. And I hope this helps. Once again, there's
nothing wrong with your web page.

Sincerely;

Mike Beaver
yoda@foxinternet.net
http://web3.foxinternet.net/yoda/index.html









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   May > May 15

                          Filer's Files #19 -- 2000

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:50:14 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:01:56 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #19 -- 2000


Filer's Files #19 -- 2000, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 15, 2000, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

MASSIVE CORONAL MASS EJECTION FROM SUN

A gigantic coronal mass ejection (CME) occurred on May 13, 2000.
Probably the largest of the year was recorded by NASA. Every
eleven years our sun goes through a period of solar storms and
these storms have been with us for centuries of recorded
history. Solar flares emit high-speed particles that cause the
Northern Lights or Aurora Borealis. Radiation from the solar
flares can give passengers in aircraft or UFOs a dose of
radiation equivalent to a medical X-ray. Severe weather on
Earth, volcanoes and earthquakes may be all tied to this
activity on the sun. Satellites, communications, silicon
circuitry, portable phones and alternating current outlets can
all be effected. If your appliances start acting up it may be
the result of these solar storms. Even severe headaches may be
tied to the sun's activity. We are watching to see if the UFO
activity is influenced by the sun's heavy solar activity and
initial indications are that reports have slowed in recent
weeks.

Pope John Paul's visit to Fatima, Portugal was punctuated by
eruptions on the sun, marking the 83rd anniversary of miracle of
Fatima that occurred on May 13, 1917. Witnesses at Fatima
claimed to have seen the sun dance in the sky." Some claim this
was an early UFO sighting, others claim it may have been unusual
solar activity. The Vatican revealed the Third Secret that the
Virgin Mary the mother of Christ is said to have told three
children when she appeared at Fatima. The first two secrets
foretold the end or World War I and the start of World War II
along with the rise and fall of Communism. The Third Secret
foretold the shooting of Pope John Paul II several years ago.

ASTRONAUT'S DEKE SLAYTON UFO ENCOUNTER

MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA -- Don K. "Deke Slayton in his book gives
his account of seeing a UFO. Deke was conducting a maintenance
test flight in an F-51. "I was up about the middle of one
afternoon-a nice sunny day--- wringing out this particular 51. I
had just come out of a spin at around ten thousand feet over the
Mississippi River, near Prescott, where the Mississippi and the
St. Croix meet, about twenty-five miles from the Twin Cities. I
was heading back to Holman Field when all of a sudden I saw this
white object at my altitude, at one o'clock. I didn't think
anything about it. My first thought was that it looked like a
kite. But logic said nobody's flying a kite at this altitude. So
I started kind of watching it to see what it was.

I was closing on it, but I still didn't think too much about it.
The closer I got, the more it like a weather balloon, and I'm
thinking; that's what it's gotta be. Then I flew past it a
little high, about a thousand feet off. It still looked like a
three-foot diameter weather balloon to me. My guess on the
dimensions couldn't have been too far off. I had plenty of gas,
so I figured I'd make a pass on it. Burn some gas and have a
little fun. I pulled into a turn. But when I came out of the
turn and headed straight at it, all of a sudden it didn't look
like a balloon anymore. It looked like a disk on edge! I thought
that's strange. Then I realized I wasn't closing on the son of a
bitch. A F-51 at that time would cruise at 280 miles an hour.
But this thing just kept going and climbing at the same time at
about a forty-five degree climb. I kept trying o follow it, but
he just left me behind and flat disappeared.

I wondered what that was, but I never saw it again. I turned
around, headed back and landed, and didn't tell anybody about it
for two days. I was afraid they'd think I 'd lost my mind. A
couple of evenings later I was over in the O-club with my boss,
a full colonel, and after I had a couple of beers I thought I'd
better tell him, and I did. He said, "Get you ass over to
Intelligence in the morning and give them a briefing." So I did.
They sat there and nodded and took notes. Then they told me:
Just for your information, the day you saw this object a local
company was flying-high-altitude research balloons. They had a
light airplane tracking it, and a station wagon on the ground.
Both observers were watching this balloon and had seen this
object come up beside the balloon. The object appeared to hover,
then it took off like hell. The guys on the ground tracked it
with a theodolite, and they computed its speed at four thousand
miles per hour. I guess they were trying to tell me I wasn't
crazy. U.S. Manned Space From Mercury to the Shuttle Pages
49-50. Thanks to James Westwood.


ABDUCTEES REPORT SIMILAR AILMENTS

Robin writes, "'I was reading about the New Jersey abductees and
I want you to know that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is well known
with abductees as well as Fibromalgia." I suffer with
Fibromalgia and many abductees do. When I was abducted I
immediately came down with Epstein Barr virus associated with
Mononucleosis. I was 14 yrs old at the time. I am 41 and still
suffering, but with the Fibromalgia. It is painful to just move
about at times and I get most discouraged. If it is related to
EM I hope they soon find the answers. My body can't take much
more. Fibromalgia is not fatal from what I have been told, but
it makes you wish you were dead. Dr. Kavorkian was dismissed for
helping a woman commit suicide who had Fibromagia. I wonder if
that was the correct move by the courts. Sometimes, I wish the
pain would stop but death? I question that?. Thanks to Robin
Editor's Note: Abductees report they suffer from several similar
ailments that usually involve severe fatigue and pain. Last
week, we reported that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and possibly
Epstein Barr is helped by taking magnesium according to
England's University of Southampton. Most of the diseases are
relatively new and often called yuppie diseases. Admittedly, we
have very sketchy evidence to date, but many of the abductee
ailments point to weaker immune systems that seemed to first
develop about 1950, the time of the first UFO waves. We do know
that UFO propulsion systems develop massive electromagnetic
effects that could cause weaknesses in the human immune system.
Ufologists have little resources for research, but the
relationship between various diseases and UFO encounters would
be fascinating. I always recommend that a close encounter should
be followed by a visit to your Doctor and blood tests. Perhaps
its just another coincidence, but magnesium burns with a hot
bright light, very similar to the hot bright lights reported on
UFOs. We have a group of intelligent people who claim contact
with UFOs, they have measurable medical and physiological
effects that may help prove the existence of this phenomenon.

TENNESSEE FLYING TRIANGLE

PINEY FLATS -- Lady Morgan Moonstone writes, "I'd like to report
a sighting: On May 9, 2000, at about 9:15 PM, in the Piney Flats
Industrial Park, I observed a triangle shaped UFO hovering about
50 yards above the trees. It had a white light on each corner
and an orange light in the middle of it." It made no sound and
disappeared before I could pull over to take a picture. It
appeared about the size of a bus at my distance from the object.
Two weeks earlier, I saw an orange ball-shaped light at a very
far distance and was able to take a picture of it but do not
have it developed yet. (I will send a copy if it turns out.)
Additionally, several friends of mine have spotted this
triangle-shaped UFO and all of them have the same description.
This particular area seems to be a "hot spot." Thanks to Morgan
Moonstone, @Morgan preferred.

ARKANSAS FLYING TRIANGLE

LITTLE ROCK -- My friend and I went outside at 10:50 PM to walk
the dogs on May 1, 2000. I always look at the stars; I am an
amateur astronomer and have had a keen interest in that subject
for some time. As I looked to the Northeast, I saw what I
believed to be a satellite moving to the Southeast. I pointed
this out to my companion. As the object past over head at 90
degrees I saw there were actually three objects flying in
formation, or one large object forming an isosceles triangle. It
moved silently at a uniform speed with no change in intensity
The person with me was able to see two of the three points of
light before they faded in the Southeast. The space between the
triangle points was very large. I estimate you could place 3
full moons within that area. Movement of the object(s) was very
fluid, no sound, the points of light making up the triangle
remained fixed, not increasing or decreasing in distance. I
observed no stars being blacked out as the object(s) passed
over. Distance above the earth was very difficult to determine
other than to say they appeared to be in low earth orbit at
about 45 degrees above the horizon.


TEXAS DISC

Lamar James writes that Pat Carithers, a wire editor for the
Arkansas Gazette newspaper, once confided in me that he
encountered a UFO 45 while driving in west Texas. He said he was
driving an old gas/oil guzzling Mercury across country
accompanied by his wife and a noisy parakeet in a cage on the
backseat. Pat said just before reaching some mountains, the
radio died as did the car engine. The parakeet also shut up. A
couple of hundred yards in front of them, a silvery saucer shape
rose out of mountains, tilted at an angle and zipped out of
sight within seconds. The car engine and radio started, but the
parakeet remained silent. The sighting produced unexpected
benefits. Pat swears his oil guzzler didn't burn another drop of
oil and the parakeet never uttered another sound for the rest of
the trip. By the way, I saw ball lightning during a storm when I
was 11 years old, and it looked nothing like a UFO. It was like
a soccer ball made of sparks which hit a fire hydrant and
bounced down the sidewalk before disappearing. It was so
incredible, I doubted what I had seen for a while Thanks to
Lamar James ljames@uaex.edu


NORTHERN NEVADA DISC SEEN FROM AIRLINER

While traveling on United flight 739 from Denver to San Jose, in
a window seat, I saw a round silvery object with a "hump" or
rounded top pass below our plane on April 23, 2000. The rounded
top heading east was identifiable by a shadow that was cast by
the low setting sun at 1840 PDT. Assuming we were at about
30,000 feet, the craft was at about 25,000 feet, as it looked
about a mile away, at the 7 o'clock position in reference to the
planes forward motion. That means I saw it along the bottom of
my window, as well as the window in front and behind the one
next to me. I first caught a glimpse in the window in front of
me, across the window next to me, and followed it through the
window behind me until it disappeared underneath the wing. I was
in row 10 on the left side of the plane, so I was looking down
and to the South. It took about 10 to 12 seconds to cover that
span of sight. Ten minutes later I saw another jet liner about
three miles away, also going east and it took about 40 seconds
to cross my view in just the window next to me -- hence the UFO
was traveling at about five times faster than that airliner or
roughly 3000 mph. I believe we were over northern Nevada at the
time, just after clearing a very rugged mountain range. I
estimate the object to be 55 feet in diameter based on the width
of the occasional dirt road I could see on the desert floor. It
was a very desolate area. I tried to seek out the pilot and crew
after the flight, by waiting for them about 20 minutes to
deplane, but they did not get off, so I went about my business.
Some research of who piloted that flight should be able to
identify the crew, and they may be willing to confirm the
sighting. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director NUFORC
www.ufocenter.com


UPDATE ON SIGHTING IN NOVA SCOTIA

Eugene H. Frison MUFON's Nova Scotia Provincial Director writes
that further investigation of a black triangular object observed
by a local paperboy has revealed some additional facts. The
witness decided to take a shortcut through a cemetery to get a
paper to a customer who wanted his paper very early. Upon
entering the cemetery, he immediately felt something was not
right -- the wind was different and seemed to have a whining
sound mixed in with it. After walking a considerable distance
along the road into the cemetery, he felt a cold wind and noise
come up behind him and, out of the corner of his eye; he watched
a solid object pass about three feet away from his right elbow.
He could feel the cold rush on his face as it passed. His scalp
became hot as it went by. Once it had moved in front of him, he
could discern its triangle shape and that it was cruising very
fast just above the ground. He estimated the object was about
nine feet tall and five feet along the base. It veered off
sharply on a 45-degree angle after negotiating a near 90-degree
change of direction in the cemetery road. The witness reported
tiny raised blisters that burned and stung so much if picked
that it brought tears to his eyes troubled his face and chest
area. These began shortly after the sighting and lasted a couple
of days. Thanks you for sending me Filer's Files. Thanks to
Eugene H. Fresno, Nova Scotia Provincial Director (MUFON)
genefrison@auracom.com


UFO SEEN IN ARGENTINA

TANDIL -- The "El Eco de Tandil" Newspaper of May 5, 2000,
states, "Residents claim witnessing UFOs over the area." Once
again, several people claim to have seen powerful beams of light
whose characteristics do not match those of any machines known
to man. One of these persons is Hugo Macias, 60, who works for
La Capital newspaper in Mar del Plata for the past 37 years. He
has delivered newspapers every morning traveling along a circuit
made up of Balcarcel and Tandil, giving him perfect knowledge of
National Highway 226. "On Tuesday at 5:00 AM, as always, " he
explained, I left the newspaper at the National Gendarmerie at
Planta Terrena, heading toward Mar del Plata. I traveled some
6000 meters and suddenly heard a very strange noise approaching
me from behind, and I felt myself "contained" within a powerful
bright light. I say, "contained" because the light covered a
diameter of 50 meters, and penetrated all sides of my vehicle.
It seemed to pierce the rooftop." How long did this last?
"Seconds only, but they appeared to be rather long." There were
no other vehicles on the road? "None whatsoever--during the
remainder of the trip I may have passed two other cars. It was a
light traffic day." So, what happened later? "Well, I returned
to Tandil, discussed the event with a group of friends and with
a gentleman who belongs to the Army Command and to whom I
deliver the paper every day. When I returned to Mar del Plata, I
headed to the Gendarme Station to see if the duty guard had seen
anything that night. The guard had left but another one who told
me that on five or six separate occasions similar strange things
had been seen. The next day, Macias was shown a story appearing
in the local evening paper a similar case thirty minutes later
over Tendril. The gentleman from the Army Command also told me
that the guards on duty had also witnessed a light in the sky,
with a very strange shape.

"The Gendarmes don't discuss the matter because things can get
complicated. If word of this should reach NASA, there would be
disturbances and people looking into the subject." Did they tell
you what they believed to have seen? "No. People just say what
they saw but don't express opinions about it." Are these objects
commonly seen here? "On my way from Tandil I made the comment
with Sheriff Lopez of El Dorado (on Route 226), who's
knowledgeable about UFOs, and he advised me on why the
Gendarmerie avoids getting into the subject because it knows how
NASA works: they can send an airplane with six scientists
anywhere in the world and carry with them an all terrain vehicle
in which they can visit locations in person. Many locals don't
like strangers visiting them." My experience was lovely, because
what began as fear, at first, is now the satisfaction of having
been contacted by something that researchers in the field would
like to have seen and never have, " noted Hugo. " I am convinced
that it was not from this world. The power of that beam of light
is not a power produced by any luminous source that we have at
this time. I felt nothing at all, physically then, but for the
past two days, I have felt headache, laryngitis, and many other
symptoms. I'm just happy for the chance to have lived through a
contact experience like this one." Thanks (c) 2000. Institute of
Hispanic Ufology (IHU) for the translation.


IRELAND GREEN CYLINDRICAL UFO SIGHTED

DUBLIN -- On Tuesday, March 14, 2000, at 10:52 PM, Gary Mugan
was listening to the radio at his home in Ballinteer, a suburb
of Dublin, the capital of Ireland, when he spotted a strange
glow in the sky. "I saw a light green glowing object,
cylindrically shaped," Gary reported, "It passed over my house
and paused momentarily. I was listening to my radio and it
stopped. It took off at amazing speed over the mountains. There
was no sound."    Gary estimated that the UFO was "a green
cylinder about 40 feet (12 meters) long" and "flew at about 50
miles per hour (80 kilometers per hour)" and took off at the
speed of a supersonic jet. Afterward, he added, "I rang up a
local radio talk show and told them about it." The radio station
was 104.4 FM in Dublin. Thanks to UFO Roundup Vol. 5, # 19 May
11, 2000 Editor: Joseph Trainor


CARTER WHITE HOUSE PROBE INTO ET SUPPRESSED,

"EXOPOLITICS", a new book by former Stanford Research Institute
(SRI) futurist Alfred Webre, claims that a 1977-78 White House
study into Extraterrestrial communications during the Carter
years was secretly suppressed at the behest of Pentagon
officials, led by the SRI liaison with the Pentagon. The study
was to have been undertaken jointly by the National Science
Foundation and the Center for the Study of Social Policy at SRI
where the author was a futurist and principal investigator of
the study. According to EXOPOLITICS, the suppression of
important Carter White House study is part of what he terms
"Exopolitics" or the process of government and politics in the
Universe. EXOPOLITICS asks: Is there intelligent life in the
Universe? In fact, the truest conception of our human
circumstance may be that we are on an isolated planet in the
midst of a populated, evolving, highly organized
inter-planetary, inter-galactic, universal society. Earth is
isolated because we are in intentional quarantine by a
structured, rational universe society. Exopolitics, the dynamics
of politics and governance in inter-stellar society, is a key
channel to transforming our human future. EXOPOLITICS politics'
immediate goal seeks a decade of human education and community
politics about the extraterrestrial initiative. Part One was
released in March 2000; Part Two is scheduled for release in
September 2000. Early reviews UniverseBooks' non-fiction eBook
serial, are saying:  "It is great!! You can access more
information including a reader's excerpt at:
http://www.universebooks.com/exopoliticsexcerpt1.html


JAMES J. ANGLETON, AMERICA'S MASTER SPY HUNTER-OR NOT?

Bill McDonald writes, in the annals of the CIA's secret history,
no man's name stands better known than James Jesus Angleton, the
Legendary "Master Spy Hunter" who was as much a "Fundamentalist"
institution within the CIA complex at Langley, Virginia, as J.
Edgar Hoover was as the Director of the FBI, or Hyman Rickover
was as the father of the U.S. Navy's nuclear submarine fleet.
Please see:

http://home.earthlink.net/~rcollins634/reports/bill_m_jja_masterspy_hunter.htm

and

http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/Sanctuary_Of_The_Birds.htm

for further information and updates...


FREE DOMAIN NAME SPECIAL OFFER

Special offer for readers of "Filer's Files" Camelot Computers
is offering a one year free domain name with a year of web
hosting. Prices for hosting start as low as $9.99 a month.
Camelot can get your site off the drawing board. Visit them at
www.camelotcomputers.com or contact Webmaster. Website dealing
with the paranormal is our specialty. Chuck Warren, Camelot
Computers, Web Development Director, www.camolotcomputers.com

SPACE SHUTTLE FOOTAGE: There is a great deal of speculation
about UFOs being seen from the space shuttle. Decide for
yourself, Jeff Challender has put together raw video footage of
the NASA downloads. Learn exactly what is ice crystals and
camera smudges? You can decide for yourself. Jeff gives pointers
on how to look for UFOs versus the standard excuses. This is raw
footage but well worth seeing. Only $25.00.

PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available and
data on their propulsion systems by US Navy Commander Graham
Bethune.. $10.00. Send check or money order to G. Filer 222
Jackson Road, Medford, New Jersey 08055

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I
recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is Copyrighted
2000 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post
items from the Files on their Web Sites provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name, address, or story confidential.









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   May > May 16

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:01:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:51:30 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


Hello all, Bruce,

 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:41:42 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:48:05 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >>>Bruce also discussed what various persons who had known or
 >>>interviewed the Trents had to say about their personalities and
 >>>honesty, and none thought they had any inclinations or
 >>>motivations whatsoever for having committed a UFO hoax.

 >>I appreciate that people may have opinions about the Trents'
 >>honesty, good reputations, or whatever. But, knowing what we
 >>all do about human nature, etc., and the history of the subject
 >>of UFOs, how can we take seriously someone's opinion that
 >>another person, whom they may have known only through an
 >>interview, has had no motivations whatsoever for committing a
 >>hoax?

 >>What does anyone really know about another's motivations?

 >Of more importance is the fact that everyone who knew the Trents
 >tioldme that the idea of a hoax was beyond them... they just
 >didn't have the mental capacity to think of anything outside
 >their range of daily activities.

Yes! Bruce! Coming from Pioneer stock, if you will, and knowing
of the type of people who, as it were 'Old Oregon' types. The
Trents typified the classic. Having been one who was on a year
to year survivial regime' as in Farming - one does not care if
there are UFOs, one cares if you can make enough money to buy
either shoes for the kids, or tires for the tractor. This kind
of life style leaves little for hoaxing.

This is why I can easily see the Trents as authentic. I can't
conceive how they could do it  and not slip up somehow, let
alone the Trents even thinking up such an elaborate Hoax.

Obviously, the money didn't flow in.

 >This will be expressed in more detail when my second large paper
 >is published on the site:

 >www.mcmenamincs.com

 >where the first paper's already published in part.


Thanks, Bruce, the Sceptical, er, Skeptical community may say
what they want. However, the key may just be the Photos taken by
some simple farmer and his wife. Period.

GT McCoy








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   May > May 16

                      TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.15.00

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:36:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:54:39 -0400
Subject: TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.15.00


TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

May 15, 2000

_____________________________



WEEKLY BRIEFING
5.15.00


In the news this week, the Pope made headlines during his visit
to Fatima, with the Vatican finally revealing the infamous
'Third Secret of Fatima', which is said to have been a
prediction of the assassination attempt on the Pope in 1981. Is
that all there is to it, or is there more, to be revealed soon,
as various circulating reports suggest? Time will tell. Also,
the new petition to have the Face and Cydonia region on Mars
re-imaged again on May 7 gathered over 2900 signatures in just
the one week it was online, with the vast majority of the
signees having well educated and in many cases scientific
backgrounds, showing that the issue is far from dead, as much as
NASA would apparently like it to be (and we still don't know if
the new images were even taken or not; given their track record,
NASA may surprise us with them in the near future when and if
they feel like releasing them). These new images (with a couple
more opportunities in the coming months) are important, as the
orbital and lighting conditions were optimum for the best, most
high-resolution photos yet taken of these controversial
landforms.

These and other reports below...


VATICAN REVEALS 'THIRD SECRET OF FATIMA'
http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/05/13/pope.fatima.02/

PETITION TO RE-IMAGE CYDONIA GATHERS OVER 2900 SIGNATURES
IN ONE WEEK
http://www.infosourceresearch.com/current/occupations.html

AIR FORCE HAD PLANS TO NUKE MOON
http://www.space.com/news/spacehistory/nuke_moon_000514.html

NASA CONSIDERS ANOTHER 'PATHFINDER' MISSION FOR MARS
IN 2003
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/missions/mars2003_000512.html

HUBBLE IMAGE SHEDS LIGHT ON DARKNESS WITHIN GALAXIES
http://CNN.com/2000/TECH/space/05/11/hubble.galaxies/index.html

BIOLOGICAL COMPONENTS REPORTED IDENTIFIED IN CHEMTRAIL
SAMPLES
http://www.carnicom.com/bio1.htm


_____________________________


See also the TMP web site for complete listings of news stories,
reports and related information and links:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing weekly briefings of the latest relevant news
stories and reports, as well as information and updates on
TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul Anderson
and published by TMP, and is available free by subscription; to
be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including "subscribe TMP News" or "unsubscribe TMP News" and
e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000








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   May > May 16

             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:44:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed


 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:47:16 -0500
 >From: Mike Bara <mbara@uswest.net>
 >Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >In the years I have worked with Richard Hoagland, I have come
 >across many harsh critiques of his work. Uniformly, I have
 >found them to be baseless and ignorant. I addressed this issue
 >in an article on my web site called "Where is the informed
 >criticism of Richard Hoagland?" See:

 >http://www.lunaranomalies.com/whereis.htm

 >Over the years, I have developed a fairly thick skin for this
 >nonsense. Despite the fact that Hoagland once admonished me
 >for "suffering fools poorly" I have learned, especially since
 >the Robert AM Stephens idiocy, to let most of this go without
 >comment. That said, occasionally I get something across my
 >desk that is so utterly fallacious that I cannot help but
 >respond. A case in point is the recent "critique" by Mac
 >Tonnies regarding the recent 'Tom Corbett' View Master reels
 >presented by Richard Hoagland in Phoenix.

 >In the interest of fairness, I thought I would offer >my
response >to this particular 'analysis'.

 >Tonnies starts out this way:

 >>However, Hoagland has looked in the wrong place. The reels
 >>he cites as evidence of a secret Cydonian indoctrination
 >>program are segments from a serialized science fiction
 >>adventure series from 1955--decades before the Viking
 >>mission discovered evidence for the anomalies under
 >>investigation. So it would appear Hoagland's claim is
 >>decidedly 'fringe' from the start; it's predicated on the
 >>assumption that NASA (or some other space agency) has not
 >>only been aware of the Cydonian enigma for much longer than
 >>history would allow, but is confident enough in its
 >>estimation of the mystery to begin a pop-cultural
 >>indoctrination, plugging specific ideas at the science
 >>fiction-reading demographic of 1955 in hopes of steering our
 >>psychosocial acceptance of artificial structures on Mars
 >>(and elsewhere).

 >This is of course, exactly what we have been saying for some
 >time,

<snip>

 >The >implication from this is obvious: That NASA already knew
 >there was something "down there" at Cydonia before they took
 >the picture.

Yes, but _how_? The "Enterprise Mission" has always been a bit
vague on this point, to the point of excluding even honest
speculation.

 >As to the notion of "pop-cultural >indoctrination", this is
 >exactly what the 'Brooking's Report' at:

 >http://www.enterprisemission.com/brooking.html

 >calls for. We are merely implying that this policy was already
 >in place four years before it's inclusion in the official
 >Brooking's document.

Are we dealing with time travel or what, here? If you and
Hoagland can propose _how_ this information was obtained - or
just give us something to go on that might help researching this
angle - we'll all be well served.

<snip>

 >These next paragraphs are laughable. It is obvious that he has
 >never read 'Monuments' or been to the Enterprise web site,

I consider 'Monuments' to be one of the best pieces of
speculative science writing I've ever read. And I check
'Enterprise' daily, for what little it's worth...

 >or if he has, he conveniently has forgotten the relevant
 >passages. Hoagland extensively discussed "The Sentinel" in
 >Monuments,

Yes, I remember his discussion quite well. It has no causal
bearing on anything you're talking about.

 >It is obvious that this guy has not done even the most
 >rudimentary amount of homework on this subject.

Yada, yada. The problem with Bara's position is not so much that
the 'burden of proof' is on his side, but that he's obviously at
a complete loss as to how any knowledge of Cydonia could exist
in 1955.

He bashes me again and again like I'm some idiot who just
doesn't 'get it'.

If he's asking me to blindly - and "blindly" is the key word here
- accept that a secret and very well-developed space program has
been investigating artifacts on Mars since _at_least_ the early
fifties, then no, I suppose I don't get it.


Mac Tonnies

My essay can be found at:

http://www.geocities.com/macbot/imperative5.html







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   May > May 16

                   EBE-ET International Bulletin - Brazil

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt@opengate.com.br>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 22:37:30 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 02:05:40 -0400
Subject: EBE-ET International Bulletin - Brazil


Brazilian Entity of Extraterrestrial Research

Edition 2 - May/June - 2000

EBE-ET Copyright( by Thiago Luiz Ticchetti


Editorial:

Hello my friends,

We also would like to apologize our grammatical errors.

Well, in our second International Bulletin we show how a person
can take advantage of others using the ufology.

That person called Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira, and we will
show what happened until he become the largest charlatan of the
Brazilian ufology in every time.

That episode is unique in the world ufology, because for the
first time ufologists, press and public joined to expose
tricks, lies and promises.

We would like to thank A.J. Gevaerd, Editor of Revista UFO and
all members of the EBE-ET, as always.

We hope you enjoy our bulletin.

Best regards,


Thiago Luiz Ticchetti Publication Department and Specialized
Translation Director - EBE-ET





PART I THE BEGINNING

Four years ago, a person named Urandir Fernades de Oliveira,
appeared on the Brazilian ufologic scenario saying that he was
able to contact with extraterrestrials beings, took a ride on
board of the UFOs many times, and those beings had given to him
paranormal powers. He never proof it.

It is inside of this scenario that the alleged contacted claims
that he is friend of the aliens beings, included the strange
and mythological Ashtar Sheran, whose story Urandir took from
others that, since 40 years ago say the same. By the way,
Urandir has been being worth of the experiences - many times
real - from others people. The most flagrant case is of Mr.
Lucio Barbosa, a former teacher in Campo Grande, Mato Grosso do
Sul State. Was Lucio the first one who Urandir looked for to
learn more about UFO 4 years ago, when he came to Mato Grosso:
"Since then, Urandir did not know nothing about UFOs, and
claimed to me that never have had any experience with aliens
beings", said Lucio to the Revista UFO (edition nr 56, January
1998) Lucio lived in a modest rural property about 100km Campo
Grande city, in a place called Colnia Boa Sorte (Good Luck
Colony); a small town composed  exclusively by black people
descendants of slaves. He taught in a small local school and
alphabetized adults and children, taking a good life, for
option, far away from the civilization.

Lucio already came making it for almost one decade, period in
that had the chance to observe strange night lights in the
beautiful skies of the area. By the way, he was not the only
one.

One day, such facts attracted the onlookers' attention, among
them Urandir, that went until the colony to know the teacher
and to try to observe the ships that he affirmed to see. Well
then, it was there that the "Urandir phenomenon" began. Most of
all the stories that Urandir tells about his past of contacts
is the copy of the histories that Lcio lived and that it
entrusted to the new friend, without imagining that that will
assimilate everything so quickly. The Revista UFO magazine has
been documenting the Lucio's histories more than five years,
reproduced later on with some make-up by Urandir and boasted as
belonging to him, that at least two years before Urandir to
present them in the TV as being yours. That chosen has the
audacity of describing as yours a contact history with aliens
that Lucio had when he was 13 years old.

The idea to create more visuals phenomenons and to move forward
in the filed of the cures, however, the contacted supposition
acquired in the last three years. Knowing what afflicted people
were looking for, specially the poorer, he proposed to come as
possessor of the talent of the cure. To improve his image of
miraculous healer, he makes magic tricks without connection
with the situation, just shown to distract.

"My cures were already proven by the science", he insists. But
he never proved anything.

He was the "star" of a TV Show called Brasil Verdade (True
Brazil), where made magic tricks, claimed that he had powers to
cure people, to make to appear crystals in his head, to
transform metals in gold, to resurrect killed and to cure the
AIDS.

Urandir learned a lot with Lcio Barbosa. He read many books
about UFOs and aliens and it improved his lying stories. PART II
THE STORY

Since 1997 the magazine UFO comes informing the inexhaustible
capacity of production of ufologic facts of  the
solemnity-denominated contacted Urandir Fernades de Oliveira
regularly, today the most notorious of all the characters that
was already combated by the Brazilian ufologic community. The
activities of the referred citizen, that is founder of the
project Portal, were initiate about 7 years ago and can already
be characterized as the most imaginative and badly servant
ufologic repertoire set up in any part of the world to get
personal benefits through the phenomenon UFO. Now, they turned
case of police. Urandir was shackled and arrested in Porto
Alegre, on March 26, 2000. His prison was decreed by a judge
and executed by the police of the 17th District of the Police
of that city.

Weigh against him countless accusations among them the one of
faith healing and quackery, swindle and ideological falsehood.
For not having fixed residence or defined profession, and for
his displacement easiness and possibility of eventual escape,
the judge understood that Urandir should be available to the
Justice so that the pending facts are clear on him. The fuse of
the prison was lit by the lawyer Nicolau Borges Ltz Netto that
represents countless victims of Urandir that acquired of the
unlikely contacted irregular lands in a property called "the
city of the Ets".

Ltz Netto tried to negotiate in a friendly way with the
prisoner, in the expectation of seeing it reimburse the people
that bought the illegal lands, without writing nor any other
form of appropriate legal documentation. Urandir ignored the
solicitations, he mocked of the justice and, in subject of
hours, he was arrested.

The referred citizen, as know all the readers of the magazine
UFO, alleges openly and shamelessly to have special powers,
gave to him by extraterrestrials beings, to attract ships and
to do them to land in his property in Corguinho, municipal
district at 70km of Campo Grande, Mato Grosso do Sul state. It
is there that his project works and where is located the
imaginary city of the Ets. His allegations, however, do not
find the minimum back in fact, since he would never have gotten
really the fact before people that had capacity to distinguish
the cash landing of an alien ship of maneuvers with pens laser
and mile lights, instruments that him and his employees use to
deceive the dozens of thousands of people that seek him. It is
that work that Urandir uses to attract the his followers'
attention and to animate them they acquire it the illegal
lands. Many already made it.

Among the most absurd statements and lies of the supposed
paranormal, that it comes if running out to submit to an
analysis and rigid researches around his alleged powers, exists
an entangled of lies to his followers, especially, and to
Brazilian Ufologia in general. In popular programs like the
infamous Brasil Verdade, already former-dyed, or the Programa
do Ratinho, Urandir guaranteed to have the capacity to speak in
languages of extra-terrestrial. He also affirmed to make trips
the other worlds a hour in that well understood. Finally,
completing yours manufactured repertoire, he insisted for the
fact that himself would be an alien embodied in the Earth,
whose mission would be to alert the Humanity and to save some
of his members. Of course would survive mainly the inhabitants
of his extraterrestrial city...

While his placements don't pass of subterfuges to bargain some
points in the audience of those programs and even certain point
is inoffensive for the Brazilian population, some of the
declarations and acts that he developed after achieving the
fame and the national knowledge they are concern reason and
they constitute serious aggressions to the law and the
morality, as now it was proven. Among such declarations,
Urandir started to guarantee to his followers - and with that
hr got still more followers - to be capable to cure any types
of illnesses that have, until the most serious, as cancer,
leukemia and even AIDS. He alleges the unlikely contacted to be
possible that, just with the touch of his hands, he gets to
extract people's cerebral tumors from people that thought would
die.

Not satisfied with greats lies , Urandir published in his site
in the Internet, removed of the air after the accusation that
this author did in the program Paulo Lopes in the TV, of the
Rede Bandeirantes television, on February 2nd 2000, to be able
to resuscitate people, bringing them of what he calls fourth
dimension. Urandir got out to announce such a fact in his
countless courses in Brazil, as documented in video by the
Revista UFO magazine. In certain events that made, such citizen
explains how he is able of such feat and he alleges that
received the power to revive people directly of his
extraterrestrial friends, that saw in the more practice a
chance of Urandir to complete yours mentioned mission in the
Earth. His allegations and practices, as you see, are clearly
excuses and highly reprovable. But nevertheless Urandir got to
attract about 78.000 Brazilians, who pay his bills.

The quackery practice and faith healing is clearly seeing in
the actions that Urandir accomplishes without punishment at
least four years. In that period, thousands of people with the
most several - and sometimes serious - illnesses to look for
him innocently to relief for their suffering. Nobody was
assisted free, and although paying - and well - for the faith
healing, nobody was never cured of nothing some. There are
cases, however, of people that were guided by Urandir to stop
the use of medications after they have been treated by him, and
that they had their problems worsened. The supposed paranormal
sees that naturally. " To be cured, you have to have good
energy and to be in harmony with the Martians ", said Urandir
Maria das Graas, from the city of Novo Hamburgo, state of Rio
Grande do Sul, that paid R$ 300,00 for a consultation and she
continues even today with terrible headaches.

The young Afonso C. N. was taken in the glue of his mother,
with immense sacrifice, from his city in the north of Minas
Gerais to the city of Corguinho. To the whole, to arrive to the
property of Urandir, the little sick boy with leukemia
supported more than 50 hours of trip, and his mother invested
almost R$ 900,00 in bus expenses and lodging, besides R$ 500,00
collected by Urandir to do the assume cure. " He was not nor
two minutes with the boy and he already left the room saying
that my son was cured ". But Afonso continues with his problem
of health and now worsened. His family saw themselves in
difficulties for having invested what could not in the hope
that Urandir really went a chosen of ETs to cure people.
Everything doesn't pass of an unforgivable blow against of good
faith and despaired people by some encouragement that induces
them better.

A former businessman from Rio de Janeiro also passed by a
problem but, in his case, he had the cure illusion maintained by
several months by Urandir, that always called him and asked if
his health was good. To the end of each connection, Urandir
feigned to do a telepathic transmission of energy and warranty
that the lawyer would be quickly good. After that, he asked for
a small payment for the treatment. " To the whole, Urandir took
me more than R$ 12.000,00, always with his chat that the money
would be used in the construction of an health clinic for
treatment of sick ", the lawyer said. " Actually, that he wanted
is to pull up the maximum of money and he deceived me the whole
" time. The lawyer broke up with his healer, but without before
to try to recover his money, without success.

These three situations are among dozens hurried in the last two
years. The victims' of Urandir depositions are maintained vast
volume of evidences of his quackery activities close to, in our
files. The people that they were hurted, as the suitable ones
above, in spite of having guided for Revista UFO's direction
they render it complaint to the official authorities, they
didn't make it for fear of they suffer reprisals of Urandir and
his vast body of employees, that guarantee that the robbery is
very applied and stay unpunished. In hypothesis some such ones
foot-sound they allowed that this publication identified them
completely.

"One day, when I called to Urandir and said that would not give
him any money and would still denounce him, he threatened me
telling me that my life and of my family would be in risk if I
made it", said the businessman to the Revista UFO.

The menaces are a constant in the activities of Urandir. Along
his years of acts unlawfulls , whenever somebody discovered
something on his maneuvers, such person was immediately
expelled of the group and, still, terribly threatened. One of
the most serious cases happened to a manager from So Paulo,
that discovered in warehouses of the farm of Urandir, in
Corguinho, motorcycles prepared to transit in rural areas and a
paraphernalia composed by radios of communications type
walkie-talkie, batteries, mile lights and varied instruments
whose purpose she did not know. When seeing that such
equipments could only be used to swindle the insistent lights
in the hills of the area in turn of the property of Urandir,
that everybody thinks to be flying disks, was asked what they
are about.

Urandir was emphatic: "If you open your mouth, you will be
sorry". He scared me and continued to do it even after my
return to So Paulo to guarantee that I will not tell anything
to anybody ", said the victim, counting more than 10 received
calls from Urandir and his assistants, that are part of the
outline and assure since the attainment of the tricks in the
farm until the warranty that nobody will speak anything, in
case that someone comes to discover. One of the Urandir's
brother, Jurandir Fernandes of Oliveira, is military policeman
in So Paulo and frequently absent of the work to work in the
farm of Corguinho, where he takes charge, among other things,
of the protection to his brother.

The atmosphere in that the never confirmed cures of Urandir
happen are also subject of rejects. The people that were
already in his property in Corguinho know about the terrible
hygiene conditions and comfort that they are submitted - for
the which pay discharges sums.

" The bathrooms get obstructed to the point of the dejections
leave outside, invading the lodgings. The food is prepared with
loamy water that comes from a dam done by the Projeto Portal,
where Mr. Urandir, without shame, takes a bath the people and
asks to the skies to the people became good and be treated of
his evils", described the retired stewardess Julieta Paraso,
one of the robbed  by Urandir, that agreed in having his
mentioned name. She add that although Urandir affirms that
promised of cures the patient will only be granted if she has a
lot of faith. "If the person has faith of minus, according to
him, the charm will not work".

There is still the case of beautiful girls that look for the
mentioned paranormais powers of cure of Urandir and end up
knowing his intimacy in a way that they didn't imagine.

Clia B. S. H. is one to them, a beautiful woman born in the
state of Curitiba  that sought the aid of Urandir to cure pains
in the backs and ended up receiving countless blockades.

"Urandir said that the cure would only come if he could change
"energy" with me. In the beginning I didn't understand well
what that was, but then, when he insisted on being alone with
me in the brushwood, I noticed that was a blockade".

Clia describes that Urandir tries to deceive his victims - and
she knew several of them later on - affirming that can could be
his twin souls. But to discover if they do, such girls would
have theirs "chakras" opened for the paranormal, evidently
through sexual contact.

Blockade and promiscuity in the property of Urandir are common
facts and they were already denounced  to the Revista UFO by
countless people. Recently, an adolescent's father that visited
the Projeto Portal wrote to our office and said: "We spent R$
400,00 on the average real per person to be in a precarious and
distant camp what we witnessed only an show of lights, with
cannons of laser accomplished by Urandir and his followers.

"We did not see any Flying disks", said Fernando Gonalves da
Silva, from Santo Andr (SP). Among the facts that he noticed,
it is the constant blockade that Urandir makes the adolescent
youths, as his daughter.

"Urandir goes for a walk with young ladies, doing what I don't
know ". Angry, Silva still alert for the fact that the Ministry
of Finance would need to visit his property, because it is a
mine of gold.

"Mr. Urandir abuses of lacking and ignorant people, and in his
lectures, in So Paulo, he charge R$ 60,00 of each one for
sessions of pure lecture. His place is in the chain!", he
completed. Seems that his desire was accomplished.

Faith healing is crime according to the Brazilian Penal Code,
defined in the Article 284, according the jurist Celso Delmanto
in Commented Penal Code [Publishing Freitas Bastos, 1986]: it
is " crime against the public health to prescribe, teach or to
apply any substance or do diagnoses without having medical
knowledge, or still, to use gestures, words or any or any other
way to deceive the victim. The subject assets of the crime is
any person that doesn't have medical knowledge, being able to a
doctor to be joint author when rendering aid to the healer ".
According to the code, Urandir is able to be punished, foreseen
as detention of six months to two years. Was not that, however,
what took it to the chain. The law says although if the crime
were practiced by means of remuneration on the part of the
victims, the healer is also subject to the fine payment. As
Urandir is bricklayer's servant, in spite of coming as civil
engineer in several cities through where he gives courses, it
is evident that he doesn't have any medical qualification and,
with that, he is against the law.

It is difficult to esteem how much money Urandir already got to
obtain from his victims through his faith healing practices,
but it is not a few. So much that, since he became constantly
denounced for almost unanimity of the Brazilian ufologists,
focused strongly to the side of the cures, what demonstrates
his economic viability in a clearer way than Ufology. "In fact,
Urandir passed devoted more to the cures because he can get
more money and is still free from the persecution of the
ufologists ", told to the Revista UFO Alcione Giacomitti, one
of the friends that Urandir had in his intimate circle of
relationship and with which shared a lot of his tricks.

The volume of material resources that started to do part of the
personal fortune of the referred citizen - evaluated in more
than 10 million Reals - was fattened substantially with the
practice of the quackery and of the faith healing. But there is
still something so or more serious than that. Urandir recently
discovered in the sale of illegal lands of such City of ETs an
easier way pull up his followers' money. Was because of that he
received voice of the prison of the policemen's of 17th Police
Department of the city of Porto Alegre, where stayed imprisoned
for almost one week, and later he was set free to answer the
process in this condition. His complications with the Justice,
however, they are just beginning.

Some months ago, Urandir started to announce to everybody that
he intended to build the referred and imaginary city in his
property. But, to have the privilege of living in the cosmic
enterprise - and it doesn't lack people that wants -, the
candidate should work with an awful illegal outline created by
Urandir. Simply, he passed to send his property that he has
been selling faintly to who can pay the R$ 1.500,00 demanded.
The value is high, but the promises are inviting: the City of
ETs would be one of the few refuges of the Earth that would be
safe, with abundance of victuals, solemnity subsistence and
good astral, after the planet, according to Urandir, had his
axis' rotation altered and the seas moved forward the
continents. "There we will be safe and we will still receive
visits from ours space-brothers, that will start to live
together with us ", alleged Urandir in his courses, with the
largest effrontery. The judge from Porto Alegre understood such
promises in a quite different way.

To understand the sketch, it is important to know that Urandir
enclosed to Projeto Portal's original property, which was of
about 400 hectares, more than ten times that earth amount,
spread by the area. Such acquisitions were and still are being
enclosed to the fortune of Urandir in an informal way, done
starting from the robbery of properties of other farmers of the
area. In any case such purchases are registered legally and are
at least completely paid. There is not also any land
registration in the name of Urandir Fernandes of Oliveira or of
the legal entity, the Projeto Portal, in the registry that
coordinates the registration of lands in Corguinho.
Nevertheless, sat down on what is not yours and without
recognizing the pertinent legal ways of the case, Urandir
shared property in lands of 800 m2, in unknown amount, without
the description of the lands or the due authorization of the
organs that govern such acts. And he truly has increased his
fortune selling them to people that many times at least do not
know where it is the project, but that are animated with the
possibility of being in the company of Urandir when ETs comes
to save those that the paranormal to designate that should be
saved, since that is his mission...

"Urandir already sold more than a thousand lands, but most of
the buyers at least has no idea where they are. And none of
them is going to receive one day the writing of the lands", to
the Revista UFO Mrcio Uller, that worked in the project for
more than one year and was dismissed without any payment or
compensation. The representatives of Urandir through what he
calls nucleus, spread out by the Brazil sell the lands. To
activate the process, the suspicious paranormal ordered to
print great amount of receipts, many of the which he simply
signs in blank paper(according documentation that the Revista
UFO have), distributing them to the thousands among the such
nucleus. His representatives, have only to find people who pay
for the land, when they fills the receipt and they supply copy
to the eventual buyers. There is any kind of official control.

"I bought one of those lands here in the nucleus of So Paulo,
but when I was to check them at the registry there was anything
of legal in the affair", told to the Revista UFO, Maria S.,
from the city of So Paulo, that is also afraid of identifying.
Maria, as more than thousand other buyers, who felt like
idiots, since that the UFOs of Urandir are quite unlikely. She
is among the victims that want his money back. And more: in the
receipt that the representatives of Urandir passes to the
buyers, he, that signs the document, affirms that: "...he
commits to sell an area of 800 m2, retreat of a larger area of
1.000 hectares, of the rural property without division located
in the district of Corguinho, registered under the number
1.687, book 2, on March 25, 1998, in the Office of
Registrations of Properties of the District of Comarca das
Bandeiras". Besides signing that term, Urandir stands out that
the property is "...free and disentangled of any obligation,
taxes, rates, etc ".

This is just one of his lies , since who goes to the referred
registry will discover that the property doesn't belong nor it
never belonged to Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira. Besides, the
buyer will find at the registry Mr. Aristides Borges de
Esquivel, a helpful official of registers that guarantees to be
arranged to thoroughly know the details of such business.

"I have no words to say to those people that calls or visit us
asking for informations about the lands that they acquired",
said Mr. Esquivel, when emitting a certificate that confirms
that Urandir doesn't have any property registered in that
registry. That documentation was taken to the knowledge of the
gachas (people who was born in the state of Rio Grande do Sul)
authorities, resulting in the swindle accusation against
Urandir and, consequently, his provisory prison.

The property mentioned under referred registration number
belongs actually to the San Valentim Agricultural. And even
that the involved property belonged to Urandir, there is still
the fact of the largest seriousness, that certain requirements
were never executed and at least cogitated so that made the
share of the area in subject. To consummate a sales, there is a
series of legal providence to be taken, among the ones which
the elaboration of a detailed map of the area to be shared and
sold, with all the available geographical information. Nothing
of that was ever made. According to some of his employees
already discharged, Urandir nor knows how many lands for sure
were sold, for who and where it is. The purpose of that
disorganization is simple: there is not any interest in indeed
sells or to populate the area in subject, but just in raise
easy money.

The law says that, in if being about rural area, would be
necessary that Urandir obtained authorization of the National
Institute of Colonization and it Reforms Agrarian (Incra) to
make the division to be shared and sold, besides the
cancellation of his registration as rural area, to presents to
the Registry of Registration of Properties responsible. That
was never made! Besides those providence, Urandir should
present an authorization of the Brazilian Institute of the
Environment (Ibama) for the accomplishment of the such
division, by means of offer to the organ called Report of
Impact in the environment (RIMA), that should be joined to the
other documents. That was also never made, especially because,
among other misdemeanors, Urandir destroyed forests of the
Bacia Hidrogrfica of Paran, deforested his property above the
allowed, made illegal dams and dry rivers - acts that would be
condemned immediately by the Ibama.

The lawyer Ltz Netto tried to discourage Urandir of acting
illegally, before to lose his patience and to take the case to
the authorities. "I was sought by the group of Urandir in
October of 1997 to guide them on the defense against an
eventual faith healing accusation and quackery, that didn't
arrive consummating", said to the Revista UFO.

"Since then I attended several of his meetings of 'courses and
energy' and I got to go to the Projeto Portal, in May of 1999.
When Urandir begun the sell of the lands, in July of 1998, I
sought him to notice for the fact that such enterprise was
totally strange to the law, and I alerted of his total
illegality". Ltz Netto got to offer his legal help
gratuitously so that he regularized his dreamed enterprise. But
he did not care, what woke up his suspicions. The result is
that that the TV program called "Fantstico" showed to the
whole country on March 26.

"I made the proposal of helping in the juridical aspects for
knowing that humble people, that doesn't have health program,
that doesn't have his own house, that doesn't have social
security nor a regular job, was buying such lands without any
warranty, without any valid documentation", laments Ltz Netto.
Urandir got to make appointments with the lawyer , where
juridical providences would be taken, doing with that Ltz
Netto transferred professional commitments to assist him. But
simply, Urandir never allowed that any possible of the
professional help was give and Urandir continued selling
illegally lands. That characterizes sharply bad-faith.

"I concluded that there was not interest on behalf of Urandir
and his employees in regularizing the enterprise, because he is
not proprietor of the property that he is sharing. The
resources that he is receiving for this are being applied in
other purposes and the intention showed is hurting poor buyers.
I was totally disappointed about his intentions and I left the
group, declaring to everybody my deception ", affirmed lawyer
Ltz Netto, that took providences. Not without before try,
countless times, to solve the subject in a friendly way. Even
so, Urandir was not interested in this option.

The lawyer was not the only one to get disappointed with the
intentions of the alleged contacted. Dozens of people today
seek his offices to ask his money back - most of which calmly.
Other not so much.

"I already called countless times to Jurandir and to Urandir,
and none of them assists my phone calls. I want my money back
and they that keep his land", said Mrs. Doraci Alves Cunha, one
of the deceived with the promise of the City of ETs. Through
the process against Urandir, however, the lawyer hopes to
recover all the customers' money back.

"I have been sought by several buyers to promote the nullity of
the business accomplished ". Like him, other professionals are
representing several victims of Urandir, that "dropped" in the
most original blow than was created in the history of world
Ufology.

When insisting with his secret shared and sell of lands,
Urandir was engaged in the Law 6.766, of 1979, that regulates
the subject. To disclose or to promote the sale, sale promise
or reserves of lands, before all the necessary providences are
taken, it is constituted in crime against the public
administration and against the popular economy. The penalties
for who that incurs in such crime go from the reclusion to the
chain, from two to five years, with right shackle it in the
moment of the prison. And the law was executed, therefore
Urandir was taken of the hotel in what he was shackled by the
policemen. The law still considers as aggravating element for
the application of the feather if there is not area of lands
registered on behalf of the sharer, what is exactly the case of
Urandir. The crime is also know as swindle, with employment of
the respective penalty, being considered as added difficulty
that the sales were made by means of exploration of popular
faith. After all that, you can see the big trouble in that
Urandir is involved and his followers when the frustrated
buyers of his lands in the City of ETs move actions more and
more weighed against the gang that settled in Corguinho. Even
having left the chain, his life certainly won't be the same any
more.

Until then the Brazilian ufologists, that have in his hands
vast material confirming the illicit intentions of Urandir
Fernandes of Oliveira of obtain personal profits through the
ufologic pretext, acted inside of that is his role: to denounce
such acts to the Nation. Now, the competent authorities saw the
problem and entered in the subject, to guarantee to those that
were stole by the alleged paranormal the immediate replacement
of his financial losses. The Brazilian UFO community, that
looks for an acceptance and recognition every larger of the
object of his dedication - that is the aliens' presence in our
planet -, made his part in to point and to prove the lies of
Urandir. Now, the Justice and judicial power of the nation will
do his part.



PART III

THE TESTEMONIES

A.J. Gevaerd, editor of the magazine UFO created a page in the
Internet with the intuit to help and assistant the people who
want to denounce the "thieves" that are using the ufology to
take money from simple people.  (http://www.ufo.com.br/denuncia)

Below we have some examples of people that had courage of
denouncing the largest thief that already appeared in the world
ufologia


Who Crosses the Arms

We have the habit, the Brazilian citizens, of protesting, to
chide and to kick about, only when is too late. We, the
Brazilian citizens, have the habit of crossing the arms, to
silence, in the day by day, that is, in the moment in that
rulers and authorities adopt absurd politics. For the which
everybody will pay, in the future, the price. IMPUNITY: I am
referring in what is happening in Mato Grosso do Sul. Exactly in
the municipal district of Corguinho - Project Portal, maintained
by Mr. Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira. Local that, according the
referred gentleman, appearances of extraterrestrial ships
happen, miracles, cures, contacts extractions of (chips) that
supposedly have been placed by ETs, inside of our bodies! Lie! I
was inside during one week of the supposition field of the
miracles. Lived lacks of everything: food, water to drink.

The bathrooms clogged to the point of dejections come out
outside, invading the lodgings; the food are prepared with loamy
water that comes from a dam done by the Projeto Portal. In this
dam Mr. Urandir bath the people and asks to the skies so that
they are good and be treated of his evils. Always alerting that
the cure will only happen if the blessed has a lot of faith. If
the person have a few of faith the charm will not work, and he
say that doesn't have anything with this, but... if the miracle
makes himself there he is sacred. Do I ask where are the
sanitary authorities of Mato Grosso do Sul? I think shameful
that argues that we should not intervene, will be that nobody
remembers the tragedy of Guyana, everybody forgot about Jim
Jones? The Revista UFO magazine issue 54 exposed the very well
tricks already proven. What the authorities are waiting for?
Here it is going my alert one, Mr. Urandir is creating a true
sect of fanatic.

From: Julieta Paraso
State: So Paulo (SP)

Project Portal and Brazilian Jim Jones

In the holiday of 12th October, 1999, I went to Corguinho, in
the state of Mato Grosso do Sul, to accompany my daughter in the
such close encounters that some say to happen for there. We
spent R$ 400,00 per person to be in a precarious camp, and what
we only witnessed was a show of lights, with laser canyons,
accomplished by Urandir and its followers. Flying disks nor in a
dream.

The "fools" followers, in ecstasy, screamed while his monitors -
all very paid, it is obvious, - motivated such delirium. Jim
Jones-Urandir promises to build, in February of the year 2.000,
a flying disk and to evacuate from the Earth 1.500 people, in a
ridiculous attitude that we everybody knows, it is utopian.

Urandir goes for a walk with young ladies, doing who knows.

The Ministry of Finance has to visit the municipal district of
Corguinho, because there is a mine of make money. I warn,
besides, the competent authorities on crime against the popular
economy and quackery on the part of that gentleman, in the
intuit of combating a sect as the one of Jim Jones, that took,
years ago, 900 people to the suicide.

Mr. Urandir abuses of lacking and ignorant people, and in his
lectures in So Paulo, he collects R$ 60,00 of each one in
sessions of pure foolish. His place is in the chain! His
contacts are false and I could check!

From: Fernando Gonalves of Silva
Rua Mnaco 528
Park of the Nations
09220-080 Sacred Andr - SP

I was Deceived

My name is Daniela S., I am 28 years old and I am a teacher in
Rio de Janeiro. Two years ago I have accompanied the works of
Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira and not always  agreed with all
his said �instructions�, but after 4 days of conviviality with
�Projeto Portal�, I was sure that everything is a great fake! I
don't know anything, I cannot prove anything, but my intuition
accompanied of a good reflection of the facts that there
happened, didn't leave doubts of that charlatan. I'm rebelled.

And stiller because I notice that let myself to believe in that
allegations for so much time. And I have friends, that myself
presented to Urandir that are completely involved. I can not
believe that Urandir has the courage of being so liar, not only
for using lights probably false, but for allowing that create
such sect around him. I don't know if I can help in some way,
but I know about your worry to alerting the people about the
fact and if I could help you in someway, please enter in contact
with me my house telephone it is (*) 523-27 * *

From: Daniela S.
State: Rio de Janeiro (RJ)

PART IV
  THE CHALLENGE

In January 1998, in the edition 56 of the Revista UFO magazine,
A.J. Gevaerd made a public challenge to Mr. Urandir Fernandes de
Oliveira. But as always he ran away.

Know the terms of the challenge made by the ufologist A. J.
Gevaerd to the alleged paranormal Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira,
registered in the 4� Registry of Registration of Titles and
Documents of Campo Grande, on February 08, 2.000.

1. The alleged paranormal Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira, founder
and leader of the Projeto Portal, in his countless presentations
in TV programs of several television nets, and through his
hundreds of courses and lectures by the whole Brazil, has been
making the most hallucinating and groundless statements. He
guarantees that is capable to communicate with aliens any time
he wants. He affirms to be carrier of special talents, gave to
him by the aliens, that allow to do his miraculous cures,
besides of cancer and AIDS. He says that already made countless
trips the other planets on board UFOs and that can repeat them
when he wants. He affirms although he is able to speak in
extraterrestrial languages and says that was chosen by them, to
who he calls friends, to develop in the Earth a plan of
planetary evacuation.

2. Revista UFO's editor, Ademar Jos Gevaerd, affirms that
Urandir lacks completely with the truth in his statements of UFO
stamp and that all the things that he has been speaking openly
in the TV, in his courses or lectures, are absolutely
imaginative and groundless. Gevaerd guarantees that Urandir is
completely unable of having any contact with ETs and that there
really is any sign of true when he affirms that traveled the
other planets. In March of 1997, with a team of the Educational
TV of Campo Grande and another people, the ufologist Gevaerd
taped Urandir using tricks produced with laser pens, influencing
the presents and taking them to believe that were legitimate UFO
phenomenons. In many other occasions, the tricks have been
repeated in the Projeto Portal's headquarters, in Corguinho,
where Urandir affirms to do his contacts with ETs, which don't
have until the moment any confirmation.

3. So, to not be  the words of one against the another, the
ufologist Gevaerd is throwing a public challenge to the alleged
paranormal Urandir. This gentleman is being challenged openly to
show if he is really able to have contacts with aliens, of
talking with them and of traveling in their ships. Urandir is
invited to choose three dates that better they suit it, in
places that he designate and under the conditions that he
determine, to do three contact attempts with his supposed
"extraterrestrial " friends. In those three attempts, all of
them controlled by own Urandir in his taste and designs, the
Revista UFO will accompany the contacted works of the mentioned
and will make the adapted documentation of all the eventual
phenomenons that happen. Urandir should be able to show his
abilities of contactee, really making to appear an
extraterrestrial ship or similar thing.

4. To the ufologist Gevaerd will fit the accompaniment of the
facts, in the places and dates marked by Urandir, to evaluate
without interference of what will happen. Such analyses will be
made by the own and for specialists invited by the Revista UFO,
among experts in Brazilian UFO Community and foreigner, that can
be accompanied by the guests of Urandir, without interference.
The only condition imposed by the ufologist Gevaerd to Urandir
is that he can take to each one of the three attempts that will
be done, as his guests, members of the local and national Press,
members of entities linked with the consumer rights and several
police powers.

5. Revista UFO's editor sustains openly that doubts of your such
mentioned experiences of Urandir, that don't pass of invention
or production made with the purpose of extracting material
benefits. And guarantees that anything, absolutely nothing, will
happen in the opportunities that he will have to demonstrate the
opposite, in case he comes to accept the invitation. But, in
compensation, it also sustains that, is something comes to
happen, that evidences the powers extrasensory of Urandir and
his capacities to contact with aliens, will recognize openly
that referred gentleman is a person with special talents that
has true relationship with non terrestrial civilizations.
Finally, in the case of that hypothesis to come confirming, the
ufologist promises openly to come to insist in the
popularization of the phenomenons of Urandir and in the
recognition of his legitimacy.

6. This public challenge is the chance that the alleged
paranormal will have to prove that his allegations are true. It
is the chance that the truth is reestablished. So, it will be
properly registered at registry, in the district of Campo
Grande, so that his legal validity be recognized.

Campo Grande, February 03rd , 2.000

Ademar Jos Gevaerd, ID 3.040.127-1 SSP-PR CPF 442.581.949-72

*****************

THIAGO LUIZ TICCHETTI
Diretor Do Departamento de Publicao e Traduo Especializadas ( DEPTE -
EBE-ET / Brasilia-Brasil)
Publication Department and Specialized Translation Director.

ICQ - 35119615
http://www.ebe-et.com.br















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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 16

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 00:51:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 02:10:45 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:41:42 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Oops

I wrote:

 >This will be expressed in more detail when my second large paper
 >is published on the site:

 >www.mcmenamincs.com

 >where the first paper's already published in part.

should be:

www.mcmenamins.com









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 16

                  Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 00:58:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 02:16:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt


 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:59:21 -0700
 >From: SMiles Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:44:24 -0400
 >>From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
 >>Subject: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>Hi Errol, Hi All,

 >Howdy John & all,

 >>First, Nick has only received 15 responses/samples from the more
 >>than 30 original volunteers. We'll give the 'lazy bones' two
 >>more weeks to submit them so we can complete the analysis.
 >>Please, if you volunteered, submit your samples ASAP. Thank you.

SMiles asked:

 >So did Nick get mine yet? I sent it at least a month ago.

Hello, yes he did. Thank you for the timely submission. It is
appreciated.  :)

 >>Next: I've been electronically 'hustled!'

 ><snip>

 >Firstly, if they were doing this they have stopped; I just
 >visited that URL via Netscape and Explorer and did not
 >experience the phenomena you describe. The main page had links
 >to everything from Fortean Times online to your site and back
 >again. Each of these links I clicked on took me precisely to the
 >specified URL, with no apparent hijacking at all. So either you
 >intimidated them to revise the entire website in a keystroke or
 >just witnessed the wrath of the internet's trickster side.

There is nothing wrong with my browser at any other site I have
visited. It's gone now, but when you clicked on their link to
AIC, my website appeared in a window with the Silvermoon URL in
the browser. If you attempted to bookmark any of my pages you
would get _their_ URL, not the ones for the AIC pages. I had
posted a reciprocal link to their site. The difference is, that
when you clicked on the link at AIC you were actually
transferred over to their site. You were not shown a 'captured'
version of it from within AIC. _That_ is what they did to me.
It's sleazy, and unethical. It's a rip off, plain and simple.

 >This is not perhaps as negative or precisely devious as you
 >assume; it obviously violates your moral compass and I can
 >respect that. However, the technique you speak of (routing
 >another website thru' their own) is not an uncommon practice
 >thru' the use of html frames. As a website creator you are
 >probably familiar with them and how anyone can use a link from
 >your own website to another one but have it displayed in a
 >frameset which gives the impression the website is part of your
 >own.

These are the kind of 'grey areas' that some folks operate in.
It would be 'nice' if they'd inform people that visitors will
not be able to bookmark any of the pages from your site.

 >While I appreciate your angst against this sort of alleged
 >shameless attempt by Silver Moon, if what you described was
 >accomplished with the use of html frames, then it is as easy for
 >any general user of the Web to simply click or right-click your
 >mouse button to cue the pop-up browser menu (on Mac and PC both
 >Netscape and IE) and click on 'open frame in a new window' and
 >watch as the actual URL is brought up in a new browser window
 >from which you can then bookmark/mark a favorite for the actual
 >URL.

According to them, it was some "security software" that they
have installed to keep people from learning their true URL!? I
can see you sitting there with a crinkled brow wondering what
the hell I'm talking about. You're not alone. I reacted with the
same incredulity when I read it.

There is a 'response' to my post on their website now where
I am being referred to as a "paranoid schizophrenic" that has
had "one too many abductions". The brunt of their explanation
and defense for what they do seems to rely heavily on attacking
me personally. I've been called worse. I live in New York City
for keerists sake. I've been ranked out more effectively by
cabbies who have only just learned the language. Plus, the
cabbies used "visual aids" to convey their true feelings. <lol>
The kind people at SilverMoon can call me any damn thing they
want to. The guy is crying baby shoes because he got busted
and now they are scampering around trying to do some serious
'damage control'. All I care about is that they no longer
"play" my webpages as a part of/within "their" website.

I worked long and hard to create the graphics, & pages and to
compile the information that is available at AIC. I _pay_ for
out of pocket, the bandwidth used by the files that they were
'playing' as a part of their website. Had they informed me of
their 'methods' and their "security software" I never would have
consented to any links.

I don't take being ripped-off and fooled very well I suppose. Ah
well, none of us are perfect eh! :)

Regards,

John Velez, Paranoid schizophrenic that has been abducted one too
many times. :)








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 16

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:10:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:27:12 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:26:20 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:16:18 -0700 (PDT)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Regarding the McMinnville photos:

 >My paper published in the Center for UFO Studies 1976 symposium
 >proceedings.

 >It is available at:

 >www.mcmenamins.com

<snip>

If any of you have trouble finding it, you can go more directly
to:

http://www.mcmenamins.com/McHO/trent/index.html


Jim







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   May > May 16

                  Mars Sky Color - Better Surface Pictures

From: Holger Isenberg <H.Isenberg@ping.de>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:34:12 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:30:46 -0400
Subject: Mars Sky Color - Better Surface Pictures


Hallo,

I read about your discussion on blue or red sky on Mars in the
mailing-list archive. Some month ago I started to analyse
original data from the Viking Landers and created some images
from this.

The first surprise was, that you get very nice, almost true
colors when using original data without any color-processing!
And exactly for that the filters, the internal calibration
lights and the every-day automatic calibration of the cameras
were constructed.

The reason for this may be, that back in 1976, we had not that
computer power for image processing, so the system was built to
supply good images themself.

The colors are also confirmed by the color calibration charts
fixed on the Viking landers, which have been "forgotten" for the
Pathfinder mission...

Take a look at my articles about the color-story at:

http://mars-news.de/color/blue.html http://mars-news.de/life/

(and following pages)

--
    Holger Isenberg
    H.Isenberg@ping.de
    http://mars-news.de







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                        P-47: UFO Historical Issue #6

From: Jim Klotz <jimklotz@FOXINTERNET.NET>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:43:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:51:41 -0400
Subject: P-47: UFO Historical Issue #6


Issue No. 6, (March 2000) of Barry Greenwood's UFO Historical
Review is now on-line.

go to:

http://www.cufon.org

and click the 'UFO Historical Review' button in the upper right
hand corner of the screen.

Jim Klotz







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                            2001: A Mars Odyssey?

From: Holger Isenberg <H.Isenberg@ping.de>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:38:37 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:18:30 -0400
Subject: 2001: A Mars Odyssey?


This might be of interest to you, as there were some mails
about a similar topic:

Do you remember the scene in '2001' during the flight over the
Moon, where Dr. Floyd is shown the moon-map of Tycho-Crater? On
this map 45� S and 10� W is marked and 3 points around the
crater are named. One of them is the excavation site around the
monolith, the others are not mentioned in the movie.

One of the two other points is the simple coded geographic
position of the Cydonia-Face on Mars to within less than 0.5
degrees!

Read the complete story with a comment from A.C.Clarke on

http://mars-news.de/life/2001.html

--

Holger Isenberg

H.Isenberg@ping.de
http://mars-news.de







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   May > May 16

                     PRG Programming Announcement - 5/19

From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 03:39:40 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:25:27 -0400
Subject: PRG Programming Announcement - 5/19


PRG
Paradigm Research Group


Program:     Coast to Coast AM
              with Mike Siegel

Date:        Friday/Saturday, May 19

Time:        10 pm, PST

Guest:       Stephen Bassett
              Paradigm Research Group
              X-PPAC

Netcast at:  www.coasttocoastam.com/audio.html

Radio:       470 stations nationwide
              Washington, DC metro:  WWRC AM 570


Topic:       The Politics Of UFOs/Disclosure including:


*   The status of all political disclosure initiatives.

*   Future of the disclosure movement

*   Some commentary on the future of UFOlogy itself
     and the power of a mutual admiration society

*   Disclosure and the power of shame

*   The status of X-PPAC

*   The status of the Paradigm Clock

*   Some powerful new websites which are now
     making their presence known.

*   Assessment of Bush, Gore & McCain as regards disclosure

*   Future of legal action as a tool to force disclosure

*   The NASA dilemma and the 1958 Space Act

*   In-Q-It, the CIA venture capital fund.

*   More

Some links which may be referred to:

Paradigm Research Group:         www.paradigmclock.com

Extraterrestrial Phenomena PAC:  www.x-ppac.org

Destination Space:               www.destinationspace.net

Alien Zoo:                       www.alienzoo.com

Space.com:                       www.space.com

UFOCommunity:                    www.ufocommunity.com

CAUS:                            www.caus.org

Enterprise Mission:              www.enterprisemission.com

CSETI:                           www.cseti.com








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   May > May 16

                   New Year's Sighting Puzzles Australian

From: Diane Harrison Director AUFORN <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:57:07 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:28:42 -0400
Subject: New Year's Sighting Puzzles Australian


New Year's Sighting Puzzles Australian

http://www.farshore.force9.co.uk/!x_eng5.htm

----------

Jan 1 2000

My name is David Taylor and I am a school principal. I live in
Roma in South West Queensland, Australia. My wife and I were at
home on New Year's Eve watching the millennium fireworks on TV
(no, we hadn't been drinking). At midnight we heard some locals
letting off crackers and went into the front garden to have a
look.

Because we live in the country the night skies are spectacular
and we looked up because it was a  very clear night. We both saw
two red/orange lights travelling slowly from south to north
almost directly overhead. It was hard to get any sense of scale,
but they were very bright compared to thestars around and seemed
much closer (i.e., visibly larger). They were travelling behind
one another in a straight line and appeared to be at about light
plane cruising height and speed. After watching them for about a
minute, a third light appeared on exactly the same path as the
first two.

We watched until they were out of sight (about five more
minutes). The intensity of the light did not change, nor did
they change course. As they got close to the edge of visibility
they appeared to split up, with the first going up. the second
slightly down and the third veering westwards.

It was a very quiet country night and there was no noise at all
associated with the objects whichruled out aircraft or
helicopters in my mind. It was a windless night, so I don't
think that they can have been balloons, certainly not with the
constant speed and direction they maintained.

The next morning I heard that others across NSW and Queensland
had seen the same thing.Several people in Roma also concurred
with our sighting. I phoned the bureau of meteorology who said
that it was probably sunlight reflecting off satellites. There
are 3 reasons why I cannot accept this view:

1. The objects were travelling in a group of three

2. They appeared to be too low and too bright for satellites.

3. I was exactly midnight and light could not have reflected for
    as long as it did without the earth's shadow getting in the
    way.

That's about it. It certainly wasn't the most exciting sighting,
but it is the first time I have seensomething I can't explain in
the sky and has consequently intrigued me greatly.

I hope that this may be of some interest to your organisation. I
would really like to hear if anyone else corroborates this story
or any other developments.

Yours faithfully

David Taylor

----------


Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>







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   May > May 16

                    Re: Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'?

From: Roger Prokic <rprokic@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 07:54:00 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:31:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'?


 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:51:26 +0000
 >From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >Subject: Barry Chamish's Site 'Shutdown'?
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >From: Barry Chamish

 >Hello,

 >Two days ago, May 12, I gave a two hour interview about my new
 >book 'Return Of The Giants' on the Jeff Rense Sightings radio
 >show. Jeff and I spoke as we reviewed the information on my web
 >site at http://members.tripod.com/~ufoisrael.

 >Today, I checked the site. Here is what I received.

 >Forbidden

 >You don't have permission to access /~ufoisrael/ on this server.

 >Additionally, a 302 Found error was encountered while trying to
 >use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

 >Folks, I've been shut down.

<snip>

Barry, have you paid your ISP bill? If so, Mossad may have you a
marked man!



Roger Prokic
Denver, Colorado USA
-=[ sent from a TRGpro palm computer & Multimail Pro v3.11C ]=-







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   May > May 17

                 Paranormal Phenomena Newsletter - 5-15-2000

From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:26:19 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:52:36 -0400
Subject: Paranormal Phenomena Newsletter - 5-15-2000


Source: paranormal.guide@ABOUT.COM



  ABOUT PARANORMAL PHENOMENA
  May 15, 2000 - Vol. 3, No. 19

- Weird Skeletons in Mankind's Closet
- Fatima's "Third Secret" Revealed!!
- Chupacabras Attack More Farms in Chile
- What's the Use of an OBE?
- The Great Pyramid and the Freemasons
- Walk-Ins
- Link of the Week: Understanding the Australian Yowie
   Phenomenon
- Sizzling Sci-Fi Summer Movies

  ------------------ Hot Pick ------------------

WEIRD SKELETONS IN MANKIND'S CLOSET

Giant skeletons... skulls with horns, way too many teeth and
pointy heads... What are we to make of these amazingly unusual
specimens?

http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa051500a.htm

(AOL users: scroll to the bottom of this newsletter for
AOL-friendly, clickable links.)

  --------------- In the News -------------------

FATIMA'S "THIRD SECRET" REVEALED

Well, part of it anyway. The Vatican has given details for the
first time of the so-called third secret of Fatima. It said the
secret - revealed by the Virgin Mary to three young children in
a series of visions - related to the failed 1981 assassination
attempt against Pope John Paul II.

http://paranormal.about.com/library/blnews.htm


CHUPACABRAS ATTACK MORE FARMS IN CHILE

Last week saw another rash of Chupacabra attacks in Chile.
Eyewitnesses also sighted two weird humanoid creatures, said to
be Chupacabras. The new round of Chupacabra incidents began
April 12 in the small town of Tucapel, in Bio Bio province just
east of Concepcion. Witnesses reported that "a large bunch of
dried brambles were crushed by a strange luminous phenomenon."
http://paranormal.about.com/library/blnews.htm

-------------- The Latest Links ---------------

I found lots of great new links this week, including:

WHAT'S THE USE OF AN OBE?

Interview with Robert Peterson, author of Out of Body
Experiences: How to Have Them and What to Expect, who answers
common questions about OBEs.

http://www.gsu.edu/~libbdp/inscrip/pipeterson.html

THE GREAT PYRAMID AND THE FREEMASONS

Robert Bauval speculates on why the Egyptians abruptly cancelled
the most dramatic ceremony of the millennium, when they were
supposed to place a gold cap on the Giza pyramid.

http://www.robertbauval.com/hermetictradition/article2.html


WALK-INS

Usually, only one spirit is attached to a body, but in the case
of what is termed a "walk-in," another spirit may come in and
take over.

http://www.occultlife.com/archives/channell/walkins.htm


LINK OF THE WEEK: UNDERSTANDING THE AUSTRALIAN YOWIE PHENOMENON

This article describes various encounters with the Australian
version of Bigfoot, from the early 1970s on.

http://www.sightings.com/general/yowie.htm

You'll find all the latest links at:

http://paranormal.about.com/library/blnewlinks.htm

------------------- HOW TO'S --------------------

In the coming weeks I'll be adding more and more practical
how-to's. If there is one in particular you'd like to see, drop
me a line and let me know.

------------------ Poll Results -----------------

For the article "Test Your Psychic Ability," readers were polled
with the question: "How often would you say you have a psychic
or ESP experience?"

http://paranormal.about.com/library/blpredict_poll.htm

Here are the results:

Very often.........................27%
Once in a while....................52%
Rarely.............................13%
Never.............................. 8%
(611 total votes)

----------------- You Talk Back -----------------
M. writes:

"When I was pregnant with my baby, I had her four months early
so she had to stay in the hospital for a long time. When she did
come home as an infant, she came on all kinds of monitors, but
as we left the hospital to go home the nurses gave her an angel
pin with her birthstone in it. The first night I put her in her
basinet to sleep, she would cry and cry. I went to check on her
and when I picked her up to rock her, I found another pin that I
know they did not give her. It had a pink and white diamond on
it and it said, "I'll always be with you and love you forever,
your guardian angel." I wonder if she really does have a
guardian angel, because whoever or whatever left it here for her
sure did love and care for her. She is six now and still has the
pin and wears it every day."

Have you had a weird experience? Write and let me know.

------------ Talk About It with Others ----------

THE PARANORMAL BULLETIN BOARD:

This was recently posted on the Delphi Bulletin Board by
copperdryad: "Spirit attachment, as it is most widely called
now, doesn't just up and happen. There usually is some kind of
'cosmic' handshake that allows it to happen. Usually it occurs
when some kind of trauma leaves one emotionally wide open for
troubled souls that have been through something similar to wreak
havoc. And in most cases, it doesn't manifest in things like
spinning heads and vomiting, it is more likely that it is
manifest as chronic illness, 'mental illness,' emotional issues
that continually go unresolved."

What do you think? Let everyone know at the Delphi bulletin
board. You'll find many posts of strange experiences and
queries! It's worth a look. Don't hesitate to post your own
weird experiences and questions about the paranormal.

http://paranormal.about.com/mpboards.htm


THE PARANORMAL CHATROOM:

The chat room is ALWAYS open, but scheduled chats with me, your
Paranormal Guide, are every Tuesday night, from 9 to 11 pm ET -
although I stop in regularly on other evenings, too. Join us for
interesting conversations.

http://paranormal.about.com/mpchat.htm

  ---------- Regularly Updated Sections -----------

PARANORMAL PHOTO GALLERY:

Interesting new photos include "Bird Cage Ghost" and "Halloween
Ghoul." Many weird photos and sounds from readers. Go take a
look. I welcome all submissions of ghost and weird photos, EVP
recordings, video - whatever. Even if you have to send me the
original photo prints, audio or video tape, I'll make copies for
Web presentation and return the originals to you. I want your
weird stuff!

http://paranormal.about.com/library/blgallery6.htm

PARANORMAL STORY ARCHIVE:

Weird stories that readers swear are true. The MAY stories are
now there! Send yours! But it must be TRUE!

http://paranormal.about.com/library/blstories.htm

------------ Elsewhere at About.com -------------

SIZZLING SCI-FI SUMMER MOVIES

Nick Johnson, About.con Guide to Science Fiction Movies, says:
"Time travel, aliens, space cowboys, cult films, Godzilla and a
nutty professor all mean that the theaters will be packed with
sci-fi treats this summer."

http://scifimovies.about.com/library/weekly/aa042300a.htm

-------------------------------------------------

Until next week, keep an open mind... but not so open that your
brains fall out.

Stephen Wagner
About.com Guide to Paranormal Phenomena
http://paranormal.about.com
Email: paranormal.guide@about.com

--------- Clickable Links ---------

Skeletons In Mankind'S Closet
http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa050800a.htm


Fatima's 'Third Secret' Revealed And Chupacabras Attack More
Farms In Chile
http://paranormal.about.com/library/blnews.htm

What's The Use Of An Obe?
http://www.gsu.edu/~libbdp/inscrip/pipeterson.html

The Great Pyramid And The Freemasons
http://www.robertbauval.com/hermetictradition/article2.html

Walk-Ins
http://www.occultlife.com/archives/channell/walkins.htm

Link Of The Week: Understanding The Australian Yowie Phenomenon
http://www.sightings.com/general/yowie.htm

The Latest Links
http://paranormal.about.com/library/blnewlinks.htm

How To Test Your Psychic Ability With Zener Cards
http://paranormal.about.com/library/howto/htzener.htm

Poll Results (Psychic Ability)
http://paranormal.about.com/library/blpredict_poll.htm

Paranormal Bulletin Board
http://paranormal.about.com/mpboards.htm

Paranormal Chat Room
http://paranormal.about.com/mpchat.htm

Paranormal Gallery
http://paranormal.about.com/library/blgallery6.htm

Paranormal Story Archives
http://paranormal.about.com/library/blstories.htm

Sizzling Sci-Fi Summer Movies
http://scifimovies.about.com/library/weekly/aa042300a.htm

---------------------------------

*About This Newsletter*

To add a new email address or remove your email address from
this newsletter, visit:

http://PARANORMAL.about.com/gi/pages/mmail.htm

and click the subsibe or unsucribe button.

This newsletter comes courtesy of About.com, the Net's only
network of sites led by expert human guides. If you have friends
who might enjoy this mailing, please feel free to forward it to
them. To subribe to more of About.com's hundreds of other free
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   May > May 17

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:31:58 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:55:59 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:48:05 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 > <snip>

 >>Bruce also discussed what various persons who had known or
 >>interviewed the Trents had to say about their personalities and
 >>honesty, and none thought they had any inclinations or
 >>motivations whatsoever for having committed a UFO hoax.

 >I appreciate that people may have opinions about the Trents'
 >honesty, good reputations, or whatever. But, knowing what we
 >all do about human nature, etc., and the history of the subject
 >of UFOs, how can we take seriously someone's opinion that
 >another person, whom they may have known only through an
 >interview, has had no motivations whatsoever for committing a
 >hoax?

 >What does anyone really know about another's motivations?

I have an educational and occupational background in law
enforcement. I have had much educational and field experience
with regard to interview and interrogation. By no means am I
saying that I'm a human lie detector, however I have to say that
there is no way the Trent's were lying to me. I deal with people
lying to me all the time. For someone to keep up a lie for
almost 50 years is remarkable in of itself. If they were lying,
then they were both sociopaths or Kevin Spacey better give his
Oscar up to the Trents. As for motive there are always the basic
motives for crimes: money, money, and money.

When it comes down to UFO hoaxes, the bottom line in the
majority of cases, in my experience, is money and/or fame. There
is nothing that suggests the Trents were in it for the money or
the fame. The sighting turned their world upside down and inside
out. They reported to me that the negatives of their now famous
(or infamous) UFO photos were used by some show in New York City
they appeared on once and were never returned. How much money
have the people who have utilized those negatives in books and
television specials made? The only crime involving the Trents is
that they were duped out of property that rightfully belonged to
them. Did they pursue getting their negatives back? Did they
threaten lawsuits? did they seek monetary compensation? No...

The Trents made no cash and both of them died broke. When I
interviewed them Paul Trent was in need of an electrical cart to
get around having suffered from chronic knee problems and he had
an extreme hearing problem. The Trents were very reluctant to
talk with me about their experience to begin with. The Trents,
in my opinion, are the victims in this UFO case having suffered
much ridicule and having their naivety taken advantage of.


Royce J. Myers III

eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind."
ufowatchdog@earthlink.net
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)







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   May > May 17

             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:39:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:00:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed


 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:47:16 -0500
 >From: Mike Bara <mbara@uswest.net>
 >Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s Tv Show
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >[Non-subscriber Post --ebk]

 >>Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:57:17 -0700 (PDT)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed
 >>To: UFO UpDates <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >In the years I have worked with Richard Hoagland, I have come
 >across many harsh critiques of his work. Uniformly, I have found
 >them to be baseless and ignorant. I addressed this issue in an
 >article on my web site called "Where is the informed criticism
 >of Richard Hoagland?" See:


Why doesn't Hoagland come out and address these issues, why send
a middle man?

It's be nice to see Richard Hoagland actually respond to the
claims made against him involving plagiarism for once instead of
side stepping and ignoring it. Anytime Hoagie gets hit with some
criticism or is given a hard question requiring a yes or no
answer it translates into a conspiracy to discredit him...

Royce J. Myers III

eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open
Mind"... or your old View Master...strange things happen when
you trip and hit your head...

ufowatchdog@earthlink.net
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)







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   May > May 17

             Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed

From: John Velez <jvif@spacelab.net>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:53:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:05:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed


 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:47:16 -0500
 >From: Mike Bara <mbara@uswest.net>
 >Subject: Re: Hoagland Reveals Story Of Mars Secrets In '50s Tv Show
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >[Non-subscriber Post --ebk]

 >>Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:57:17 -0700 (PDT)
 >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
 >>Subject: Cydonian Imperative: Hoagland's Claims Analyzed
 >>To: UFO UpDates <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >In the years I have worked with Richard Hoagland, I have come
 >across many harsh critiques of his work. Uniformly, I have found
 >them to be baseless and ignorant. I addressed this issue in an
 >article on my web site called "Where is the informed criticism
 >of Richard Hoagland?"

Hi Mike, Mac, All,

I'm not going to jump into this discussion between Mac and
yourself. I do however want to address the question you pose
above regarding "informed crticism" of Hoagland. I'd like to
respond by posing a question to you.

When Richard Hoagland runs around playing Nostradamus on
National radio and making absolutely wild predictions about
alien landings in Pheonix Arizona, etc. (and -trivializing- a
potentially important case) he kind of 'soiled himself'. At that
point, how "informed" does one have to be to "criticise" Richard
Hoagland? The man has systematically turned _himself_ into a
three ring media circus. None, and I mean _none_ of the
ludicrous predictions he has made have happened. _None_ of his
theories or "findings" have been borne out in any way by _any_
other authority. (Outside of his own associates and cronies.
'Carlotto' et al.)

Nope, you don't have to be "informed" about much, to be able to
'see' Mr. Hoagland for the travelling medicine show that he is.
I have trouble figuring out which "hat" he is wearing
now-a-days. The 'scientist' or the 'mystical psychic high
priest.'

I was impressed with "Monuments" I have never been impressed
with the man himself. He plays the fool in public and behaves
like a side-show charlatan. How can any reasonable person take
him or what comes from him, seriously?

Just one man's opinion. :)

John Velez







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                2 Million Enrolled - SETI@HOME Reaches First

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 17:40:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:11:36 -0400
Subject: 2 Million Enrolled - SETI@HOME Reaches First


Hi Everyone.

Below is a message from The Planetary Society which was forwarded
to me by a colleague. Let us hope our SETI friends do not have
to wait 50 years or more before they come up with their
irrefutable proof that we have neighbours in our little spot of
the universe.

Nick Balaskas


For Immediate Release: May 16, 2000

SETI@home Achieves 2 Million Mark by First Birthday

On May 17, 2000, SETI@home, co-sponsored by The Planetary
Society and the University of California, Berkeley, achieves two
milestones: its first anniversary and having just passed the 2
million participants mark. The largest distributed computing
experiment ever undertaken, this innovative project in the
search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI) uses a computer
program that analyzes scientific data while acting as a
screen-saver on personal computers.

Developed at the University of California, Berkeley, SETI@home
went on-line May 17, 1999 to wide acclaim and worldwide
attention. For the first time, ordinary citizens anywhere could
actually participate in the search for intelligent life
elsewhere in our galaxy. Within the first three months alone,
over 1 million inhabitants of Earth took up the challenge.

SETI@home harnesses the spare computing power of two million
Internet-connected personal computers around the world to crunch
data from the radio telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico. To date,
SETI@home is the largest distributed computing experiment ever
undertaken, and participants have collectively logged 280
millennia worth of computing time.

"Although we knew SETI@home would fit exactly The Planetary
Society's mission to involve the public in space exploration,"
said Charlene Anderson, Associate Director of the Society, "it
took a leap of faith to invest in the program because no one had
ever before tried to create a distributed computer network of
such size, complexity and sophistication. We are amazed and
delighted with the results."

The director of the SETI@home project is Dr. David Anderson, and
its Chief Scientist is Dan Werthimer, who leads UC Berkeley's
SERENDIP SETI program as well. The project was conceived by
computer scientist David Gedye, along with Craig Kasnoff and
astronomer Woody Sullivan.

The project's start-up funding came from The Planetary Society.
Other sponsors include the University of California, Berkeley;
Sun Microsystems; Fujifilm Computer Products; Quantum Corp.; and
Paramount Pictures provided partial funding to The Planetary
Society for this project.

As part of the one year anniversary celebration, SETI@home
participants can download a certificate of appreciation from The
Planetary Society's website at

http://planetary.org.

SETI@home was designed to tap into the enormous power of
hundreds of thousands of personal computers. Initial estimates
for participation were pegged at 200,000 to 300,000 people.
Sign-ups proved to be 10 times that number and are still rising,
with an average of 2,000 new participants joining each day.
SETI@home users represent a wide sector of the public, ranging
in age from young students to retirees, and from professional
engineers to newcomers to the Internet.

There are even numerous user groups "competing" for the top spot
in the number of units of data processed. The top 100 groups
include a virtual who's who listing of high tech companies as
well as more unusual entries such as tenth place holder, The
Knights Who Say Ni!, whose top contributor is Sir CADCAM of the
Wooden Rabbit. Members of The Planetary Society can join their
own user group -- over 1,100 strong -- that currently resides in
12th place.

Will we ever discover an alien signal with SETI@home -- who
knows? The search itself is proving a grand experiment in
distributed computing. And how many other screen-savers allow
computer users the chance to change human history by possibly
discovering that we are not alone in our universe. If a signal
is found using the SETI@home program, the owner of the computer
that analyzes that vital data will merit a place in the history
books as one of the humans who opened the door to an incredible
new view of the cosmos.

SETI@home is one of six projects in the Search for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence supported by The Planetary Society
-- the world's largest space interest group, and longest running
funder of SETI projects on Earth.

To sign-up or help with the search, participants should go to
one of the following two web sites: The Society's at

http://planetary.org

or the SETI@home site at

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu.

                  -o0o-

For more information about SETI@home, contact Susan Lendroth by
telephone at (626)793-5100 ext 214 or by e-mail at
tps.sl@planetary.org.

Carl Sagan, Bruce Murray, and Louis Friedman founded the Society
in 1980 to advance the exploration of the solar system and to
continue the search for extraterrestrial life. With 100,000
members in more than 140 countries, the Society is the largest
space interest group in the world.

<snip>










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                 "Open UFO Files" - Springfield Experiencers

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:22:20 -0400
Subject: "Open UFO Files" - Springfield Experiencers


Greetings list -

The following page contains a videoclip of a Springfield, MO,
NBC news report. Windows Media Player is required for viewing.

http://www.msnbc.com/local/KYTV/137822.asp

Believers want U.S. government to open UFO files

MAY 16 � Some people believe that U.S. government officials know
something about unidentified flying objects that they won't tell
non-government citizens. UFO believers say military aircraft
have taken UFO pictures that government officials don't want the
public to see. For years, there's been much speculation about
what the government knows about UFOs. Here's the story of one
group's efforts to gather petitions to try to force a public
vote to urge the federal government to tell all it knows.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com








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                  Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 18:46:23 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:24:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt

 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:59:21 -0700
 >From: SMiles Lewis <elfis@austin.rr.com>
 >Subject: Re: Cattle Rustler Alert/Dust Bunny Hunt
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Howdy John & all,

 >>First, Nick has only received 15 responses/samples from the more
 >>than 30 original volunteers. We'll give the 'lazy bones' two
 >>more weeks to submit them so we can complete the analysis.
 >>Please, if you volunteered, submit your samples ASAP. Thank you.

 >So did Nick get mine yet? I sent it at least a month ago.

<snip>

Hi SMiles.

I notified John that a package with your dust bunny samples
arrived, intact, on May 8. Once I get the go ahead from John, I
will open all packages to begin our search (using a light
microscope) for any unusual or common objects in all the samples
sent to me.

Nick









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                Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:11:41 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:28:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos


 >From: Brad Sparks <RB47Expert@aol.com>
 >Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:30:22 EDT
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:09:10 -0400
 >Subject: Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:13:52 EDT
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:45:06 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos

 >>What about the matter of the image of the overhead wire changing
 >>its size in the same proportion and the image change for the UFO
 >>model? It was suggested that this showed they were at the same
 >>approximate distance from the camera in the two shots taken from
 >>different places on the property?

 >I recently triangulated the location of the overhead wires
 >directly above the UFO by remeasuring their horizontal parallax
 >(the shift in direction between the two photos) and conclusively
 >proved they are at a DIFFERENT DISTANCE than the APPARENT
 >triangulated distance of the UFO. There is no possibility of
 >significant error as I used transparencies of the two UFO photos
 >and exactly matched the unique patterns of kinks in the wires
 >that appear above the UFO. I had originally done this
 >measurement and calculation for the Society for Scientific
 >Exploration (SSE) Mini-Symposium of Sept 3, 1982, but wanted to
 >re-do it when I had better data, which I finally did in Feb
 >1999.

 >The triangulation is made possible because Paul Trent stepped
 >about 5 feet to his right when he took the second photo, thus
 >creating a stereo pair out of now-famous two UFO photos.

 >The wires are about 19 feet away but the UFO triangulation point
 >is at about 17 feet and that is ONLY when assuming that the UFO
 >is NOT MOVING, but is a stationary hoax model (I will comment on
 >this in depth in my long-delayed Trent Case Update, many
 >breakthrough developments are in the works). This comes from
 >the approximately 15.8-degree shift of the wires versus the
 >approximately 17.2-degree shift in position of the UFO -- a
 >1.4-degree difference in the parallax values.

Brad and List:

Could this shift, approximately the width of one's index finger
at arm's length, be due to the difference in distance from the
camera to a putative "model" UFO as compared to the camera to
the higher, and more distant, wires? If the UFO was suspended
from the wires it would be nearer to the photographer on the
ground.

I have measured various points on the two pictures and have
listed the distances as ratios for the two pictures in the table
below. The first ratio number is for Condon plate #23, the first
Trent pix, and the second number in the ratio is for plate #24,
the second pix:

1) Distance between the wires directly above the UFO - 1:1.2

2) Horizontal length of image of UFO - 1:1.18

3) Distance between UFO "antenna" top and lower wire
    (length of hypothetical "string" suspending the UFO) - 1:1.18

4) Distance between two points on garage fuel tank - 1:1.09

5) Distance between two peaks at horizon - 1:1

The measurements were made on my 17" computer screen with
a millimeter ruler and protractor. It seems that a suspended
model hypothesis could explain the ratios. The UFO and the
wires could have been at nearly the same distance from the
camera; the garage fuel tank is more distance, and the distant
horizon is too far for differences to be determined using this
method.

 >If the UFO is in fact moving horizontally as the Trents described,
 >then the shift in position photos is NOT a parallax at all and
 >cannot be used to triangulate a short 17-foot distance. However,
 >in July 1982 I discovered a vertical parallax of the UFO between
 >photos which completely refutes a close-in distance. Again,
 >more on this in my upcoming Update.

Brad, I would be very interested in seeing this.

Also, I measured the position of the shadow under the roof and
the roof corner. In the first picture (#23) the angle is 12
degrees, and in the second picture the angle is 15 degrees. This
3 degree difference could have been caused by the rising
_morning_ Sun if the pictures were taken about 15-20 minutes
apart.

I wasn't able to determine what was casting the part of the
shadow I measured, so was not able to estimate the time. There
has been some question about the diffuse shadow and the question
of a direct Morning Sun on the east side of the garage and tank.
The wall, however, is verticle with the Sun somewhat above the
horizontal. Thus the shadow would have a larger penumbra, and
the edge would be more diffuse, than if the Sun shone
horizontally on the wall.

My measurements seem to support Robert Sheaffer's hypothesis. An
alternative hyposthesis would be that the UFO was at a much
greater distance, and just happened to have moved precisely in
such a way that the UFO/lower wire distance was just the same as
that of a putative "string" needed to support a model.

Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:29:26 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:01:15 -0700
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:51:30 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

<snip>

 >This is why I can easily see the Trents as authentic. I can't
 >conceive how they could do it and not slip up somehow, let
 >alone the Trents even thinking up such an elaborate Hoax.

Elaborate? Two pictures taken by a guy of a pie pan on a
string?

<snip>

 >However, the key may just be the Photos taken by
 >some simple farmer and his wife. Period.

I agree. Whatever we think we can know about their motivations,
intelligence, etc. The thing rests on the pictures.

Clear skies,

Bob Young










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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:37:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:32:23 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:41:42 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Of more importance is the fact that everyone who knew the Trents
 >tioldme that the idea of a hoax was beyond them... they just
 >didn't have the mental capacity to think of anything outside
 >their range of daily activities.

This is about the most bloody patronising thing I've ever read!

They were just a coupla thick hicks from the sticks, couldn't
possibly fool a guy like me with a college edoocashun. Is that
it?

 >This will be expressed in more detail when my second large paper
 >is published on the site:

 >www.mcmenamincs.com

 >where the first paper's already published in part.

What paper's that: "Stupid People I Have Known"?


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk








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                       2nd Annual IF Conference Report

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:15:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:15:02 -0400
Subject: 2nd Annual IF Conference Report


Source: S.P.A.C.E. EXPLORER Electronic Newsletter World Wide Web
Orbit Edition, May 2000--Volume I--Number 6

http://community-2.webtv.net/HEgeln/SPACESearchProject/page9.html

Report on the Second Annual Intruders Foundation UFO
Abduction Conference


2nd Annual IF Conference: Emerging Science & The UFO Phenomenon
A Report by Harold Eglin

 From S.P.A.C.E. Explorer Newsletter 5/2000, Vol I, No. 6

As in many learning experiences, reading between the lines generates
even more knowledge, at times.

Such was the case, in part, at the UFO Abduction Conference,
sponsored by the Intruders Foundation, the educational arm of Budd
Hopkins' research, held on a hot May 6, 2000 at the New York Hall of
Science, Flushing Meadows, Queens, site of the 1939-40 and 1965-65
New York City World's Fairs.


Nick Pope - Man In The Loop

The morning began with the charming NICK POPE, former UFO
reports civilian investigator for the British Ministry of
Defense, and author of "Open Skies, Close Minds: For the First
Time A Government UFO Expert Speaks Out" and "The Univited: An
Expose of the Alien Abduction Phenomenon," as well as a new
novel, "Operation Thunder Child" based on UFO reports,
presenting a "What If" situation.

It was his third appearance n the States, the others being n
Florida and New Hampshire MUFON.

How does a government handle craft that can run circles around
the most advanced military planes? Why do airline pilots not let
their voices be heard when they see something that defies
aeronautical principles? These are basic questions that the
British face, Pope said.

 From 1991 to 1994 Pope was exposed to a lot of UFO reports,
which led to his subsequent six years of private research. "The
covert nature of aliens' activities seems to be their main
defense," Pope says.

Based on his military knowledge as a top civil servent in the
Defence Ministry, where he served as a cross between Fox Muldar
of "The X-Files" and Captain Edward Ruppelt of "Project Blue
Book," this very nice gentleman has used that resource in his
novel to suppose the rules of engagement that governments may
face when presented with a serious military situation with a
UFO.

His key position gave him a hawk's eyeview perch in government,
giving him a rare place to study the UFO mystery which he is
able to share with the public.


Anna Jamerson: Not By Choice

Pope was followed by the outspoken and frank abductee Anna
Jamerson, co-author of "Connections" with Beth Collings about
the experiences of two women, which journalist C.D. B.Bryan
discussed in his book "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind"
about the MIT UFO abduction conference.

Her anger, which she has every right to express, over being
taken by "aliens" gives her the drive to talk about her unwanted
experience, and in doing so, noblely from her viewpoint, help
others deal with a perceived intrusion into people's lives. She
does not want to be a "member of the UFO club."

I have a great admiration for the two women, who urge the
scientific community to take UFOs and abductions seriously.
Their case is very relevent, for their is an undoubted stealth
intelligence on this planet which cries out for attention.

But I am equally greatly depressed about how they view their
encounters, which frightens me. While they could be right--and I
certainly find their human willpower remarkable, there is a
disturbing undercurrent of pain and replusion which makes me
think of all that has gone wrong with and for humanity, wanting
an overdue revolution in how humans preceive their role in the
universe.

As very well documented and thought out is their nightmarish
accounting, something is truly missing here, which I have
chosen, out of respect for them, not to share here at this time.


Dr. John Mack's Passion- A Visa To Truth

The ever-insightful and very thoughful DR. JOHN MACK, Pulitzer
Prize-winning Harvard University psychiatrist, author of
"Abduction" & "Passport to the Cosmos," and founder of the
Program for Extraordinary Experience Research (PEER) did a
splendid job in presenting a case for openness in UFO study,
calling for more respectfully sharing and less bickering and an
end to divisiveness among researchers.

Explainations used by critics to dismiss, such as hallucinations
and sleep paralysis are "foolishness," Mack said.

"A western materialiistic worldview dominates" our culture,
"voiding the universe of all other intelligence," placing
humans, in their own minds, on top of all creation, Mack said,
which "dis-ensouls the planet."

That arrogance leads scientists to say, when looking at the UFO
abduction material, to say, "We have no place for this." They
will remain, Mack said, "attached to this arrogant world view at
all costs," and defend it.

It all goes back 300 years when science and religion laid-out
their territories, separating the sacred and the material, he
noted. Which are now re-merging, observers note.

The word "witness" is very crucial here, he said,. "Witnessed is
a wonderful word. It has deep meaning. There's something sacred
in the word...Witnesses are onto something profound."

But when a society does not believe realiable witnesses, not
accepting their stories, then, Mack said, society "imposes the
tyranny of belief," saying "this is not possible." That, he
said, "is profoundly unethical," and we must deal with this
matter of ethics and morals.

A poem was read by Mack, the words of an abductee, like the
words you may see throughout our SPACE site, that the encounters
serve as "an alarm clock....a wake-up call," offering "the keys
to freedom" opening us "to unlimited possibilties." This is not
depedent on the nonhuman's agendas, good, bad or indifferent,
but "by the fact that they (the nonhumans) exist."


Budd Hopkins: UFO Abduction Guardian

The kindly and steadfast abductionist Budd Hopkins, author of
"Missing Time," "Intruders" and "Witnessed," discussed the
patterns of abduction, from infancy, early and late childhood,
puberty, exploring abductions in adulthood, and coping
strategies later in life, doing his usual logical presentation,
always superb in the manner he presents his case.

Hopkins, like Mack, is to be admired and cheered for his helpful
guidance to people being piloted through their lives by unknown
intelligent forces which both diisrupts and enhances those
lives, depending on perspectives.

The irony of Hopkins is that he, as a well-known artist, is
fascinated by the guardians who stand at sacred places
throughout human history, as depicted in art from diverse
cultures, while he himself is like a guardian of the sacred, or
mysterious special places where nonhuman forces interact with
humans.

His artistic interest in "Sacred Spaces"--rather than being
separate from his UFO research, is actually in a tandem dance
with it. He is living, in a sense through his storied UFO
research and support of abductees, what fascinates him in art.

In a way, that connection can be understood tangentitally by
reading a superbly thoughful, insightful, and utterly
fascinating non-UFO book, "Art & Physics: Parallel Visions in
Space, Time & Light" by Leonard Shlain.

Bruce Maccabee, optical physicist for the U.S. Navy known for
examining UFO photos, videos and film, was unable to come for
his allotted speaking time. (He did arrive later, in the middle
of an abductee and speakers panel.)

In his place, to fill in "the missing time," Hopkins and Mack
spoke together, along with composer and music journalist Greg
Sandow, and a gentle therapist who works with Hopkins. Shades of
the Hopkins-Mack dialogue in Boston in April 1997!

"It's amazing how little we UFO researchers differ and how much
we agree upon when we get together over dinner," said Hopkins,
more or less, as he stood in the lunch line talking about an
informal social gathering the evening before.


The Space In-Between

As usual, much more information emerged in-between the speakers,
following from the presentations, all informative, insightful
and spoken in their own right.

As Hopkins so-well documented the continuing emergence of
patterns in his evermore fine-tuned research, to the call by
Mack for looking at other ways beyond the material senses to
gain more knowledge of the abduction experience, the conference
presented a well troddened path of giving information to the
public, most of the attendees somewhat familiar with the topic.

A marvelous moment came when a certified social worker and
counselor spoke from the floor, with little knowledge of the UFO
controversy, comparing her work with others 25 years ago on a
once taboo area of psychiatric help, now accepted but ridiculed
back then, with the position of Mack and Hopkins.

She told them to remain undaunted and move ahead despite the
present barriers, for ufology will come into its own some day.

As he always does, Mack calls for a multi-disciplinary,
cross-cultural approach to ufology, a basic premise of SPACE.

A well-known astrophysics professor, known for his Big Bang
cosmology research, at Harvard holds discussions on the subject,
but first met Mack in a parking lot, to avoid being seen
together. He told Mack that if what Mack says is true, all these
institutions and fields of studies, he said as he pointed to
Harvard's buildings, would be threatened.

Dr, Mack injected a touch of humor in his talk which set off a
healthy laugh fest in the auditorium when he presented a PEER
staffers humourous 10 points on "knowing that you were
abducted."

Among those points were "You went to bed in New York and woke up
in Illinois" and "You suddenly realize that you've accumulated
300 billion frequent flier miles."

When a man, a yoga instructor, asked Hopkins and Mack how people
could draw the UFO experience to them and have a more open
relationship with "the aliens," with the work of Dr. Steven
Greer, director of C-SETI, was cited, but as Mack said, that's
not the way it works, folks.

I approached this man during a break, for his question is a
fundamentally basic one that SPACE has explored extensively with
dozens upon dozens of documented experiences, that could give
him answers.

The man was unaware that this was, in fact, being done and when
I attempted to explain what SPACE does, to help empower people
through that interchange with that which interfaces with us, he
seemed not to be listening.

While the actual exploration of this creating a common meeting
ground does not produce landed spaceships and flights to Mars,
it presents a far more subtle, complex and challenging area of
living research by we who are the witnesses of this mysterious
interface. I wish the man had listened as closely and carefully
as we have to one another in SPACE have over the past eight
years.

This all presents a question---why are not the questions and
deeply intense experiences of SPACE included in such discussions
such as IF so very well presented at the Hall of Science, a
place where the UFO discussion belongs?

While we, who interface continually with the unknown, are not in
the league, in terms of being known publically, with a Hopkins
or a Mack or a Jacobs, all of whom I have the greatest respect
for, we do have something more to contribute to this important,
mutually shared learning process, makng it more comprehensive,
"extending the envelope."

Over dinner with Mack, he asked two questions: one about
helplessness---Is it the helplessness of having not control over
this experience, feeling victimized, or is the helplessness
which cries out for a transformative growth from these
encounters? And, most of all, what is our responsibility as
experiencers?

For me, SPACE was born out of a profound crisis of helplessness
and profound emptiness, of not being able to make a breakthrough
that would move things forward and the sense of deep
responsibility, to my own experience and for those of others, to
create a witness-driven venue and a vehicle in which we can
access the UFO challenge, integrate it into our lives, and to
seek a fruitful outcome in playing a role within the context of
those with whom we interface....

That was how SPACE began, I told Mack, not as a simple, "Hey,
everybody, let's start a group" but out of a major life crisis,
that could of had destructive results, and instead set forth a
voyage of creative exploration, with rough waters at times, into
uncharted areas of the close encounter experience.

We of SPACE, no matter what form our encounters take, are
willing to explore them beyond what can be imagined, which we
feel is our responsibilty to ourselves and to others.

We have gone boldly from support to exploration, taking a
journey through our experiences rarely attempted and discussed,
opening up adventures...and we are willing to share our
information with others...in the Halls of Knowledge, wherever
they are.

**************************************

Audiotapes are available of the conference proceedings. Contact
IFConfer@aol.com or ifcentral@aol.com or Intruders Foundation,
P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011-0112

Media coverage of the conference included the New York Press,
Discovery Channel, a Staten Island UFO cable show, and the SPACE
EXPLORER, among others.









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:20:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:24:21 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:37:02 +0100
 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:41:42 -0400
 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Of more importance is the fact that everyone who knew the Trents
 >>tioldme that the idea of a hoax was beyond them... they just
 >>didn't have the mental capacity to think of anything outside
 >>their range of daily activities.

 >This is about the most bloody patronising thing I've ever read!

You mean outside the pages of Magonia?

 >They were just a coupla thick hicks from the sticks, couldn't
 >possibly fool a guy like me with a college edoocashun. Is that
 >it?

The Magonia motto! Congratulations, John -- you've finally put
it in words even this hick from the sticks can understand.

Jerry Clark








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   May > May 18

                   Re: Sightings: Special Guest Update...

From: Joaquim Fernandes <jfernan@esoterica.pt>
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 15:19:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:25:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Sightings: Special Guest Update...


 >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:34:11 -0500
 >From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@dewittec.net>
 >Subject: Special Guest Update - On The 3rd Fatima Prophecy
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >
 >
 >             * Tonight, Sunday May 14th - 8 pm Pacific *
 >
 >        To discuss the Third Prophecy of Fatima 'revelation'
 >        by the Pope will be:
 >
 >               From Oz - Stan Deyo and
 >                         author Kathleen Keating:
 >                        'The Final Warning'

 >http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/Hollys.html


Dear list members,

We discovered a new source dated from 1914 - a Pope's life
history - which described a similar episode with a "bishop
dressed in white..." and the same dramatic circonstances.

Its amazing that Lucia could have read this narrative at the
Carmelite monastery in Tuy, northern Spain to where she was sent
by the religious authorities after 1917.

Please, wait for our future research and don't be too excited.
We investigated the full original documents in the Fatima
sanctuary and an hundred of primary witnesses, during a intense
six-years historical and scientific investigation. See our "As
Aparies de Fatima e o fenomeno OVNI", Lisbon, Editorial
Estampa, 1995, 3th edition, revised and actualized. email:
estampa@mail.telepac.pt

Sincerely,

Joaquim Fernandes
University Fernando Pessoa
Porto
Portugal








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:27:58 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:01:15 -0700
 >>Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:51:30 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

<snip>

 >>This is why I can easily see the Trents as authentic. I can't
 >>conceive how they could do it and not slip up somehow, let
 >>alone the Trents even thinking up such an elaborate Hoax.

 >Elaborate? Two pictures taken by a guy of a pie pan on a
 >string?

Photo analysis shows it was clearly more complicated than just
hanging a pie pan on a string.

<snip>

 >>However, the key may just be the Photos taken by
 >>some simple farmer and his wife. Period.

 >I agree. Whatever we think we can know about their motivations,
 >intelligence, etc. The thing rests on the pictures.

A photo a UFO does not make. Probably any photo could be hoaxed
given enough time, knoweldge and money (for materials,
processing, etc). The photo acts as an aid to the witness'
memory. The photo could prove a hoax if some clear evidence of
fakery is found. But if no such evidence is found..... it could
still be a "perfect" hoax. No evidence of fakery found in the
Trent photos. But in principle they could have constructed a
model that just happened to have the characteristics that appear
in the image in their photos. Would have been lucky to create
same (hanging a pie pan would have been easier). To understand
why read the paper at:

mcmenamins.com








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:19 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:29:59 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:31:58 -0700
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:55:59 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

<snip>

 >When it comes down to UFO hoaxes, the bottom line in the
 >majority of cases, in my experience, is money and/or fame.

Royce, List:

How about an additional motivation of just playing a trick on
your friends, or perhaps trying to prove that you have seen
saucers?  Mrs. Trent was quoted as saying that they had seen
some before but people wouldn't believe them.

 >There is nothing that suggests the Trents were in it for the
 >money or the fame. The sighting turned their world upside down
 >and inside out.

What if the original hoax, prank or whatever one might call it,
just got out of hand when it was reported to the local paper?
Perhaps that might explain why they never made an issue about
the money. They knew the pictures were fakes and just wanted the
thing to go away.  Of course the fact that they traveled to New
York to appear on a show does suggest that they weren't entirely
bashful.

There were two versions of what happened.  One told to a local
radio station, and a slightly different version to the papers.
Then they may have just decided to stick with one.

Royce, you may be absolutely right about them, but your
certainty that you think that you know they are telling the truth
suggests to me that you might be taken in a lot quicker than you
think.  Just a cautionary thought.


Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                              Posting Protocol

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:35:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:35:13 -0400
Subject: Posting Protocol

UpDates is a manually operated E-mail List.

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Posting Rules


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 >Date: 13 Feb 99 00:00:01 EST
 >From: Genghis@mukluk.com <Bobb Grunge>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grays are Grey Area

Again - it's at the beginning of the 'body' of the message you
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   May > May 18

                              RAI DUE and UFOs

From: Giuliano Jimmy Marinkovicc - AGETI <9a4ag@clarc.org>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:13:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:11:10 -0400
Subject: RAI DUE and UFOs


Hello dear UFO researchers.

Few weeks ago I have received this report from the member of my
AGETI mailing list. It sounds very interesting and I would like
to definetly hear more about it, because it seems this is some
kind of new ufology data with documents that were recently
released in Italy. Can anyone check this? Anyway, I am sedning
you the translation of the report in english. The name of the
the person who has sent this report is Dario Bernobicc
(AGETI_USENET_OPERATOR) and he is located in city Rijeka,
Croatia. He can be reached at dario.bernobic@ri.tel.hr

Now here comes the translation.

If anyone has any update on this please send it to me.


=====================================================
==TRANSLATED MAIL FROM CROATIAN LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH==
=====================================================


Message 2:
From: "Phaeton" <dario.bernobic@ri.tel.hr
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:59:53 +0200
Subject: [AGETI] Short review of the UFO show broadcasted at RAI DUE

Hello

One week ago about noon, on Italian national TV station RAI DUE
the show 'I fatti voostri", was broadcast. The show features
many different guests who speak about different subjects. That
day I have accidentaly switched to that station and heard that
them speaking about UFOs. I immediatly started to record, and
now I have found some free time to write this short review for
the list  :)))

----------------------------------------------------------------

On the show, the guests were 2 Italian ufologists, the editors
of the magazine "UFO notizziario" (UFO Messenger). The first
subject of their chat was the connection between Fascist leader
Benito Mussolini and UFOs.

Back in 1933, Mussolini gathered together a group of scientists
headed of Gulielm Marconi and maybe formed the first world wide
secret organization for exploration of UFO phenomena. The
organization was active from 1933 to 1940 and they have gathered
many documents and pictures.

The Ufologists brought 2 teletype telegrams from 1933 in which
Mussolini ordered censorship of any information about possible
appearance of craft of unknown origin or unknown phenomena.
Especially they noted that Mussolini forbade the spreading of
information about some kind of UFO landing near Milano (??).

Also during the show, Mussolini's 1941 speech from before the
USA became involved in the war, in the era of tension between
USA and Axis forces. In that speech Mussolini said that the USA
must care more about attack from extra-terrestrial civilization
which could land at Earth in the craft that people have never
seen, than from the Axis forces. At the time, the speech wasn't
taken seriously.

In the show pictures, films and other documents were shown from
the archives of project Blue Book. From the 12000 anlysed cases,
there was 701 unexplained. There were also some comments about
the triangular UFO which was recorded at the beggining of the
'90s, above Belgium, and it can't be explained as something from
this Earth.

After that, there was analysis of amateur photo of a flying saucer
in the form of hat from the 60s, also from the project Blue Book
archives. The attention in the show was especially about frames
where the UFO was cleary visible.

At the end, the ufologists  mentioned that in Italy, a
government organisation for the study UFOs exists, but that
organizations never make any conclusion for the public, they
only put cases in archives.

All in all, there were 20 interesting minutes about UFOs in the
clear daylight and on a show which many people watch. Not bad!

----------------------------------------------------------------


AGETI_USENET_OP
Dario B. Phaeton
dario.bernobic@ri.tel.hr
dbernob@riteh.hr
Pha (Phaeton) irc.carnet.hr #rijeka #interview #ufo

****************************************************************

To POST a message to AGETI MAILING LIST, send e-mail to:
    ageti@onelist.com

To SUBSCRIBE to AGETI MAILING LIST, send a blank message to:
    ageti-subscribe@onelist.com

To UNSUBSCRIBE from AGETI MAILING LIST, send a blank message to:
    ageti-unsubscribe@onelist.com

****************************************************************


TRANSLATED BY:
Giuliano Marinkovicc (AGETI_MASTER)
Analytical Group for Extra-Terrestrial Information

Best regards:
============================================================================
Giuliano Marinkovicc - Jimmy (AGETI_MASTER) / ICQ UIN: #67412597
Post Address: Ante Starchevicca 25/C, 23000 Zadar, Croatia, Europe
Telephone number for international calls: +385-23-430-970
Telephone number for calls inside Croatia: 023/430-970
E-mails: 9a4ag@clarc.org, 9a4ag@9a0tcp.ampr.org, 9a4ag@n7nei.wagate.com,
          9a4ag@alwgw.kb5cdx.ampr.org, ageti01@sdf.lonestar.org
Packet Radio HOME BBS address: 9A4AG@9A0YSI.#SBK.HRV.EU
============================================================================
AGETI WW HAMRADIO GROUP / Analytical Group for Extra-Terrestrial Information
AGETI E-mail list (croatian language): http://www.onelist.com/group/ageti
To post: ageti@onelist.com / To subscribe: ageti-subscribe@onelist.com
9A4AG's and AGETI Home page: http://www.clarc.org/~9a4ag
AMPRn HAMRADIO telnet conference: UFO channel 1947
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGETI is a group of radio-amateurs and co-operators from electronic media
who are exchanging world wide information, views and news about the
extra-terrestrial and ufology subject!
============================================================================










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   May > May 18

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:43:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 06:41:59 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:37:02 +0100
 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:41:42 -0400
 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Of more importance is the fact that everyone who knew the Trents
 >>tioldme that the idea of a hoax was beyond them... they just
 >>didn't have the mental capacity to think of anything outside
 >>their range of daily activities.  >

 >This is about the most bloody patronising thing I've ever read!

 >They were just a coupla thick hicks from the sticks, couldn't
 >possibly fool a guy like me with a college edoocashun. Is that
 >it?

 >>This will be expressed in more detail when my second large paper
 >>is published on the site:

 >>www.mcmenamincs.com

Ooops!

www.mcmenamins.com

 >>where the first paper's already published in part.

 >What paper's that: "Stupid People I Have Known"?

Is this intended to be an intelligent comment?











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                Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:06:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 06:44:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:11:41 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >I have measured various points on the two pictures and have
 >listed the distances as ratios for the two pictures in the table
 >below. The first ratio number is for Condon plate #23, the first
 >Trent pix, and the second number in the ratio is for plate #24,
 >the second pix:

 >1) Distance between the wires directly above the UFO - 1:1.2

 >2) Horizontal length of image of UFO - 1:1.18

 >3) Distance between UFO "antenna" top and lower wire
     (length of hypothetical "string" suspending the UFO) - 1:1.18

 >4) Distance between two points on garage fuel tank - 1:1.09

 >5) Distance between two peaks at horizon - 1:1

 >The measurements were made on my 17" computer screen with
 >a millimeter ruler and protractor. It seems that a suspended
 >model hypothesis could explain the ratios. The UFO and the
 >wires could have been at nearly the same distance from the
 >camera; the garage fuel tank is more distance, and the distant
 >horizon is too far for differences to be determined using this
 >method.

 >Also, I measured the position of the shadow under the roof and
 >the roof corner. In the first picture (#23) the angle is 12
 >degrees, and in the second picture the angle is 15 degrees. This
 >3 degree difference could have been caused by the rising
 >_morning_ Sun if the pictures were taken about 15-20 minutes
 >apart.

 >I wasn't able to determine what was casting the part of the
 >shadow I measured, so was not able to estimate the time. There
 >has been some question about the diffuse shadow and the question
 >of a direct Morning Sun on the east side of the garage and tank.
 >The wall, however, is verticle with the Sun somewhat above the
 >horizontal. Thus the shadow would have a larger penumbra, and
 >the edge would be more diffuse, than if the Sun shone
 >horizontally on the wall.>

 >My measurements seem to support Robert Sheaffer's hypothesis. An
 >alternative hyposthesis would be that the UFO was at a much
 >greater distance, and just happened to have moved precisely in
 >such a way that the UFO/lower wire distance was just the same as
that of a putative "string" needed to support a model.

Note to Trent photo analyzers: it is hazardous to base any
conclusions on careful analysis of unscaled prints.

However it is valuable "training" to make such measurements and
form logical deductions from them. A person so "trained" can
better appreciate the analyses which have been done based on the
original negatives and scaled prints from the negatives.







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 18

                    Kecksburg, Pa. - 'The Other Roswell'?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:50:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:50:38 -0400
Subject: Kecksburg, Pa. - 'The Other Roswell'?



Source: The Philadelphia Inquirer

http://www.phillynews.com/sunmag/0514/feature3.shtml


FEATURE
The Other Roswell

Visitors from outer space seem to love Kecksburg, Pa.

By Ralph Vigoda
Inquirer Staff Writer

It was about 4:45 in the afternoon and Bill Bulebush was in his
driveway, flat on his back under the dashboard of his Corvair,
his head beneath the steering wheel, the tools he needed to
install a CB radio in his hands, when he was startled by a
strange, sizzling noise overhead. He craned his neck and looked
through the windshield and saw a bright light speeding across
the clouds so fast it seemed to set the sky on fire.

"I got out of the car and walked out toward the road where I
could watch it," says Bulebush, 74, recalling the afternoon of
Dec. 9, 1965.

"I went down over the hill toward the mountain, then I seen it
coming back. It was like it couldn't make up its mind what it
wanted to do. This thing floated and made a U-turn and headed
into the ravine. I got in my car and took off over the back
road."

That back road - a lightly traveled two-lane stretch then called
Kuhn's Road and later rechristened Meteor Road - winds above the
farmland and woods that make up Kecksburg, Pa., a crossroads
community in Westmoreland County about 40 miles southeast of
Pittsburgh.

Bulebush parked his car, got out and looked down into the valley
to see where the thing had landed. The landscape was familiar.
Bulebush had lived there his entire life.

He grabbed a flashlight and walked down the hill into the woods.
The tops of trees had been sheared in the same direction as the
fireball's path. He smelled sulfur. Then he came upon it: an
acorn-shaped object about the size of a Volkswagen bug, burnt
orange in color, with a raised ring around the back and markings
that looked like backward letters.

Frightened, his heart pounding wildly, Bulebush stood behind a
tree, staring, expecting something to jump out - although he
couldn't see how anything could possibly exit the strange
capsule.

"There was no doors, no seams, no nothing," he says. "It laid
there and arced for a while, like it was cooling down. If I'd
had my camera, that picture would be worth a million dollars."

When other people started to rush into the woods, Bulebush
decided to leave. He was afraid of being in the wrong place at
the wrong time. "I didn't want to be running around with this
light shining and get shot for no reason," he recalls.

In the early darkness he made his way back to his car, went home
and told his wife what he had seen. "She asked me, Did I stop at
the club? Was I drinking? I said, No, no, I wasn't drinking. She
said, You better not say nothing to anybody."

Bulebush followed her advice for nearly 25 years. Until one day
when out of the blue Bulebush got a phone call from a man who
said he'd spent decades researching UFOs and the mystery of
Kecksburg.



Plenty of books have been written about Roswell, N.M. Hollywood
has made movies. There's even a television series about the spot
where an alien spacecraft crashed in 1947. Pieces of spacecraft
were recovered, bodies were found and for the past half-century
the American government has been covering up the truth. That, of
course, is the legend, but it's a legend that has spurred a
healthy tourism industry in the desert town and fueled a
generation of conspiracy theorists.

Kecksburg never gained the same notoriety as Roswell. But for
people who believe the government is not telling all it knows
about unidentified flying objects, what happened there ranks
just behind Roswell in American lore. And whether or not a visit
from outer space occurred, one thing is indisputable: What
happened in Kecksburg changed the small community forever.

"A lot of people don't talk to each other anymore on account of
it," Bulebush says. "There's two people I went to school with,
they have nothing to do with me. But I don't care at all. I know
what I seen, and I ain't going to change my mind."

"You can still get into a fistfight over it to this day," adds
Gene Lisker, 55, a real estate agent who has lived in the area
most of his life.



Kecksburg is impossibly rural, farming country. Its up-and-down
terrain is quiet. It has no stoplights, no post office and only
about 150 people. It began in the 1800s as Ridgeview. Then the
Keck family arrived and in 1907 opened a bottling plant where
100 people found jobs making pop.

"They had Big Stick ginger ale in a green bottle," says Ed
Myers, who has spent all of his 74 years in Kecksburg and whose
dad worked the filters at the plant. "It was good ginger ale."

There are still some Keck descendants in the area, but the plant
is no more. Pepsi took it over. Then Pepsi left and now the
plant is occupied by a company that makes pop-up tent trailers.

Just about the only other spot to work in Kecksburg is the store
at Hutter's Dairy Farm, where you can get a quart of milk and
some lunch meat. For serious grocery shopping you've got to
drive four miles to Mount Pleasant, or seven miles to Latrobe
(pronounced LAY-trobe).

When the 25th anniversary of the Kecksburg incident rolled
around in 1990, a crew from the television program Unsolved
Mysteries arrived. It spent a week in town re-creating the
events of that long-ago Dec. 9, complete with a model of the
mysterious craft. Some would-be entrepreneurs took a shot at
earning a little money off the publicity, but after a few
T-shirts and hats were sold things got back to normal. Which in
Kecksburg means not normal at all.



Ed Myers was the town fire chief in December 1965. His first
cousin, Jim Mayes, was the assistant fire chief. Shortly after
the incident, Mayes talked to the press about seeing blue lights
in the woods and told people he escorted the military to the
capsule. Myers says Mayes had no business talking to reporters
or anybody else about what happened that evening. Actually,
Myers says, he should have done the talking because he was the
fire chief. And here's what he would have said he saw: nothing.

Myers contends the whole crazy thing started when a woman called
police to say her young sons might have seen a crash. There was
a search. A couple of military guys from a nearby base arrived
to help. No one found anything. End of story.

But, of course, it turned out to be just the beginning. The
number of military men swarming into Kecksburg kept growing as
the story got told and retold. People swore the soldiers were
armed and that they threatened to shoot folks who got in their
way. Some said they saw flashing lights and smoke in the woods.
Some talked about a convoy of military vehicles and hushed
meetings among officials. There were stories of men in space
suits carrying boxes into the woods.

"I never saw anything," Myers declares. "And I was there all
night. You had a few that know it didn't happen, and they talked
anyway. See, I wouldn't go along with it."

To this day Myers believes people got so carried away that they
started making up tales, thinking they'd get on television,
hoping to cash in.

"I know one guy, he got $300 just for driving his old car in the
movie," he says, referring to the Unsolved Mysteries show. "We
was a pretty close-knit area. But it's not anymore."

What happened on Dec. 9, 1965 changed lives. It made enemies of
friends. It ruptured families. Jim Mayes died five years ago. By
then he and Myers had long since stopped speaking to one
another.

The debate has endured because some swear they saw something and
want validation, and because an opposite camp disputes all
accounts of alien arrivals, finding them embarrassing to the
community. And because a man named Stan Gordon will not let it
go.



Stan Gordon, 50, sells electronics - televisions, radios, video
equipment - but that's just his job. His letterhead identifies
him in this way: "Researching the Unexplained Since 1959."

The date points back to the year he got a radio as a birthday
present. It was Halloween eve and he was 10, living in
Greensburg, Pa., in a house around the corner from his home
today. He tuned in a program about ghosts and goblins and was
hooked. He dashed to the library, took notes on the mysteries of
unexplained phenomena and started a scrapbook, embarking on a
lifetime of exploring events that seem to defy reason.

Though fascinated by mysteries - everything from UFOs to Bigfoot
- Gordon says he is not fanatical. He hunts for rational
explanations, and that's why in 1981 he founded the Pennsylvania
Association for the Study of the Unexplained, a clearinghouse
for reports of strange encounters.

"The majority of the cases are found to have a natural or
man-made source," Gordon says. But a percentage of cases can't
be easily explained. "And that's what makes it so intriguing."

Kecksburg is his biggest research project yet and, he says, one
of the most interesting because so many things remain unknown.

Skeptics, Gordon says, need to stop mocking and concentrate on
the information he's gathered over the past 35 years: Hundreds
of people from Canada to Pennsylvania reported a fireball in the
sky. Airline pilots believed a plane was going down that wintry
evening. Witnesses said they found an odd-shaped craft partially
buried in the woods. A Soviet space probe fell out of orbit on
the very same day. People claimed they were told by military
personnel not to talk about what they saw.

And after considering all that, try, just try, Gordon says, to
believe the government's "official" story that nothing of
significance occurred.

"Something did happen that day in Kecksburg and we still don't
know what it is," he insists.



For more than two decades Gordon collected dribs and drabs of
information. He located witnesses, some who would talk, some who
would not.

In the 1980s one of Gordon's associates obtained a copy of the
Project Blue Book report on Kecksburg. Project Blue Book, which
operated from 1947 to 1969, was headquartered at what is now
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. It was an official arm
of the Air Force charged with investigating UFOs. Spurred by
sightings reported by military pilots, the investigations were
taken seriously for the first few years. But by the early 1950s
- the infancy of the Cold War - the Air Force decided that
looking into every UFO report was taking too much time.

Nevertheless, during the project's 22 years, 12,750 sightings
were investigated; 587 were marked "unidentified."

To those who believed the government was hiding something about
Kecksburg, the inclusion in the Blue Book gave the Pennsylvania
incident some legitimacy. But the Blue Book report discounted
the entire thing. The records, now in the National Archives in
College Park, Md., indicate that an investigation into the
Kecksburg incident was performed, that a few military personnel
assisted local authorities, and that what people saw was most
likely a meteorite disintegrating as it fell toward Earth.

Gordon calls the Blue Book finding fiction.

"Blue Book said there were three Air Force personnel involved,"
Gordon says. "Well, we know there were more than three from all
the eyewitness accounts. Blue Book said the search continued to
2 a.m. and nothing was found. People have told us there were
military people down there the next day.

"The question is, where did these military people come from? You
can't find any of the records for it. We've been searching for
years."

In 1987 Gordon and some assistants set up a display about UFOs
in a local shopping mall. One of those who passed the exhibit
was Jim Romansky. He overheard a couple of people chatting,
walked over and interrupted them.

"Excuse me," he said. "You're talking about Kecksburg, aren't
you?"

That's right, he was told.

"Well," Romansky said, "I was there that night."

"I was just turning 18 and I was with the Lloydsville Volunteer
Fire Department," Romansky, 54, says, retelling the story from
his home in Derry, Pa. "I had seen something in the sky earlier
that day and I thought in my mind, `Wow, a meteorite.' But I
didn't pay it no attention.

"Not long after that the fire whistle went off, so I run up
there. We received a report it was a downed aircraft. Myself and
four or five other guys jumped into a truck and took off to
Kecksburg, about 18 miles away."

When Romansky and his crew arrived at the Kecksburg fire station
on Water Street, dozens of other volunteers were already on the
scene, he says. One man laid out a large grid map and assigned
teams to search different areas. Romansky was driven out to a
field.

"We was into our grid area and we heard on our walkie-talkies
that another team found where the object was and it wasn't so
far from where we were, so we hightailed it over into a hollow
and came upon the object.

"There were eight, nine, 10 guys there, standing around looking
at this thing. I stopped and looked and said, `Whoa, this is no
aircraft. What the hell is it?'

"It looked like a giant acorn. It was oblong and had a bumper
around it and in back it was perfectly flat. I saw no doors, no
motor, no windows, no seams, no rivets.

"But there were two unique things: one was the color, a golden
bronze. It was a weird color. And the other thing was on this
bumper . . . it looked like ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics.
Rectangles, lines and circles."

Soon afterward, Romansky says, a couple of guys came and ordered
everyone out. One carried a small device that Romansky thought
was a Geiger counter. They were followed by a contingent of
military men who announced the area was being quarantined.
Romansky and the others went back to the Kecksburg fire station.
There, he says, it was "wall-to-wall military."

By this time the roads were jammed with news media, onlookers
and state police, Romansky says. But no one was allowed back
into the woods.

"We just hung around, and then we saw this big flatbed truck go
into the woods and it's there an hour, hour and a half. And then
it comes out, hell-bent for leather, and on the back of that
truck was the object, covered by a tarpaulin, maybe 15 foot
long, eight to 10 foot in diameter, big enough for a man to
stand in."

The next day, Dec. 10, the newspapers were filled with the
story. "Unidentified Flying Object Falls Near Kecksburg" read
the headline in the Greensburg Tribune-Review. The article told
how a fiery object was seen streaking across the sky by people
in Canada and seven American states. A pilot from Ohio watched a
fireball. A reporter from Erie said it left a trail of smoke.
Coast Guard officials reported the object over Detroit.

Officials, the paper said, searched a 15-square mile area. Capt.
Joseph Dussia of the state police at Greensburg was quoted as
saying the search "uncovered absolutely nothing." He attributed
the story of a crash to the "imagination" of two young boys.

"About the only thing that wasn't reported during the
excitement," Dussia added, was "little green men getting out of
a spaceship."

A spokesman for the 662d Radar Squadron at Oakdale, Allegheny
County, which was called into the investigation, said no object
was found. And Don Hays, who was at his farmhouse and about as
close as anyone to the area where the object was supposed to
have come down, told the newspaper he saw nothing.

On Dec. 11, two days after the event, the investigation was
officially closed. Scientists and astronomers opined that the
object was a disintegrated meteor and that, because it fell at
sunset, observers could have been fooled into thinking it was
close by when it was likely hundreds of miles away.

That's one reason Jim Romansky, like Bulebush, decided to stop
talking about it. "I felt if you came out and said something,
they'd send for the white wagon and put you away," he says. "But
I know something happened."

So he kept his mouth shut for almost 25 years. Until that day he
decided to go to the mall.



The Unsolved Mysteries episode aired in September 1990, despite
an attempt to stop the broadcast by about 50 local residents who
signed a petition addressed to the network.

After the show Gordon got a lot of calls. A truck driver said he
remembered numerous conversations with other truckers over CB
radios about a large military convoy on the highway heading
toward Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. And a man Gordon
identifies only as Myron piped up with what is perhaps the most
unusual tale.

Myron told Gordon he'd delivered a load of bricks to
Wright-Patterson a few days after the incident, and while at the
base had looked into a large building. Inside, he said, he saw
an acorn-shaped object with unusual markings partially covered
by a curtain. On a table nearby, covered by a sheet, was a body
with a hand sticking out. He described its skin as
"lizard-like."

Myron said he was told to keep his mouth shut by a man he
assumed to be from the military, and he did for more than 25
years. But because he suffers from a bad heart and other
ailments, he told Gordon, he came forward so the story wouldn't
die with him.

"Look," Gordon says, "you're dealing with different intellects,
different backgrounds of people, and I'm sure that after all
these years certain little details have been changed slightly or
gotten mixed up.

"But when you talk to these people, most of whom don't know each
other, they're pretty much staying with the same story. And
they're pretty much in the same ballpark."

Bob Young says they're full of beans.

Young is an amateur astronomer who gives shows and lectures at
the state planetarium in Harrisburg. He, too, saw the Unsolved
Mysteries episode and afterward asked a colleague at the
planetarium if he had heard of Kecksburg. The answer was no.
Young decided to dig for answers. His conclusion:

"It's an urban rumor. If you isolate the stories of the people
who actually say they saw objects on the ground and armed troops
and an armed convoy, there are really only a handful. And the
stories get better as time goes on."

Young talked to Von Del Chamberlain, who was working at Michigan
State University when the fireball appeared and later became
director of the Hansen Planetarium in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Chamberlain wrote an article about the Kecksburg event for the
journal of the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada. He plotted
the object's track and its speed - nearly 9 miles per second,
much too fast for a man-made craft entering Earth's atmosphere -
and speculated that its orbit suggested it had come from an
asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter.

"It was clearly a meteorite event," says Chamberlain from Salt
Lake City, where he's semiretired and teaching a college course
in astronomy. "It's also a very typical event in many ways. The
fireball, the trail that was left in the sky afterward, the
sonic booms. And the confusion that results is also typical."

What happened in Kecksburg, he says, was this: People saw the
fireball low in the sky, and the debris trail was lit up by the
sunset, making everything appear extraordinarily bright and very
close. The meteorite was traveling over Canada, to the east of
Detroit, and its end point was somewhere over Lake Erie. "We're
positive about that," Chamberlain says.

As for reports that people saw lights flashing in the woods, Bob
Young says he has a statement from someone who was in high
school at the time who says he ran through the woods with
friends setting off a camera strobe light. Other flashes might
have been made by news photographers.

And to those who say the object floated, slowed down or changed
direction, there's this explanation: People were watching the
bright vapor trail, which was likely buffeted by winds.

"But it's a good story," Young says.

Just a story?

Is it possible a craft really did fall out of the sky? Is it
possible the military recovered it? Is it possible the
government had a good reason to lie?

Yes, yes and yes.



On Dec. 9, 1965, Cosmos 96, a Soviet space probe headed toward
Venus, failed. The U.S. Space Command said it crashed in Canada
at 3:18 a.m. - nearly 14 hours before the Kecksburg incident.
But this was in the middle of the Cold War, and it isn't
farfetched to think the government might have recovered a piece
of Soviet space debris in Kecksburg and wanted to keep it under
wraps.

That would explain the supposed secrecy and military presence.
It could also explain the markings on the craft that Bulebush,
Romansky and others claim to have seen: The Russian alphabet can
look like hieroglyphics.

In 1991 in yet another revisiting of the Kecksburg incident,
James Oberg, an author, expert on Soviet spacecraft and
oft-quoted UFO skeptic, concluded that the probe could not have
landed in Kecksburg. But two years later in an article for Omni
magazine, he suggested that perhaps only the rocket booster
landed in Canada, leaving the possibility that the probe could
have come down elsewhere.

"In the 1960s," he wrote, "U.S. military intelligence agencies
interested in enemy technology were eagerly collecting all the
Soviet missile and space debris they could find. International
law required that debris be returned to the country of origin.
But hardware from Cosmos 96, with it special missile warhead
shielding, would have been too valuable to give back."

He suggests the government might have encouraged belief in an
extraterrestrial visit as a convenient cover-up for its
operation.

"Had such a thing happened, I hope they would have lied about
it," Oberg says from his home in Texas, "because analyzing the
weight of the heat shield materials on this spacecraft would
have been crucial in determining the power of their nuclear
missiles."

Stan Gordon wrote to the Russian space agency in 1995. He says
he received a reply denying any connection between Kecksburg and
Cosmos 96.

"So what was it?" Gordon asks. "What would cause people to react
so emotionally over this for all these years? Is there more to
this than we understand? These people have been living with this
for years. They deserve answers."

And the truth is, he's not sure they'll ever get them.



Ralph Vigoda's e-mail address is rvigoda@phillynews.com





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   May > May 18

              Mystery Light Flashes And Streaks In NASA Videos

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:48:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:53:05 -0400
Subject: Mystery Light Flashes And Streaks In NASA Videos


Hi everyone,

UFO (UK) Magazine's recently released video, The Secret NASA
Transmission: 'The Smoking Gun', contains references to light
flashes seen in space by Space Shuttle astronauts and many
images of light streaks which were also apparently recorded by
NASA video cameras. Could these flashes and streaks, which are
of very short duration in time, be related to the lights
observed by the Apollo astronauts during their flights to and
from the Moon?

According to an article in the March 8, 1974 issue of Science
(Volume 183, Number 4128, pages 957-959), the authors attributed
the frequent light flashes which were reported by the astronauts
as cosmic ray nuclei which passed through the retina after
penetrating the head from various directions. Fast moving
charged particles passing through the retina at right angles
would produce starlike flashes of light (similar to that of a
camera flash going off at a distance) while particles moving
tangentally to the retina would explain the streaks of light
which were also observed. If NASA camera film or video tape
responds in a similar way to these fast moving charged particles
as the human retina does, then we may have identified the likely
source for the mystery flashes of light in the 'The Smoking Gun'
video.

The Earth's magnetic field deflects all moving charged particles
(most of which originate from the Sun), including the heavier
cosmic ray nuclei. Since moving charged particles travel (in
spirals) along magnetic field lines, if we know the direction of
the Earth's magnetic field lines relative to the Space Shuttle
at the time the light streaks were recorded by the NASA video
cameras, we may be able to determine if cosmic ray nuclei were
responsible or not.*

As for the many other different objects which appear to float or
move around the Space Shuttle in the 'The Smoking Gun' video, I
have different possible explanations for these.

If anyone else has had a chance to view 'The Smoking Gun' video,
I for one would be very much interested in hearing your comments
on what you observed.

Nick Balaskas


*When the Space Shuttle is orbiting over the equator, the
Earth's magnetic field lines would be parallel to the Earth's
surface so we would expect that the light streaks to be roughly
parallel to these magnetic field lines. When it is orbiting at
mid-latitudes or latitudes further north, the magnetic field
lines would become more vertical with respect to the surface so
we would then expect the light streaks to be roughly vertical
with respect to the Earth's surface.

Unfortunately, I do not think we have noted enough of these
recorded light streaks on NASA videos to come to a conclusive
answer at this time. Also, since these light streaks are present
in single frames only, we cannot accurately determine the
relative speeds of the charged particles (since their direction
of motion through the video camera is not known) or even their
charge (although both postively and negatively charged particles
travel along magnetic field lines, their directions are opposite,
so from a single frame we could not tell if the charged particle
was moving from left to right or from right to left).









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   May > May 18

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:33:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:54:50 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


There is now available the video which was shown at the Trent
retrospective on May 11, 2000. This video contains a
reconstruction (not at the original site, the house burned many
years ago and trees have grown up blocking the view) of the
event with actors and, most importantly, extensive interviews
with Evelyn and Paul Trent, Philip Bladine (newspaper editor)
and Bill Powell (photo editor of the newspaper; he got the
negatives from the Trents). Terry Halstead will mail a copy
anywhere in the USA for $20.00 (tape plus postage).

Contact halstead@pobox.com for further information.









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:23:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:56:33 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:19 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:31:58 -0700
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:55:59 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >When it comes down to UFO hoaxes, the bottom line in the
 >majority of cases, in my experience, is money and/or fame.

 >How about an additional motivation of just playing a trick on
 >your friends, or perhaps trying to prove that you have seen
 >saucers?  Mrs. Trent was quoted as saying that they had seen
 >some before but people wouldn't believe them.

Wow. I guess you got 'em there, Bob.

 >>There is nothing that suggests the Trents were in it for the
 >>money or the fame. The sighting turned their world upside down
 >>and inside out.

 >What if the original hoax, prank or whatever one might call it,
 >just got out of hand when it was reported to the local paper?
 >Perhaps that might explain why they never made an issue about
 >the money. They knew the pictures were fakes and just wanted the
 >thing to go away.  Of course the fact that they traveled to New
 >York to appear on a show does suggest that they weren't entirely
 >bashful.

Wow. These hicks from the sticks actually accepted an invitation
to go, all expenses paid, to New York City. What more proof do
you need that they were liars?  Case closed.

Jerry Clark









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   May > May 18

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:07:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:28:46 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:40 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Hello, All, Bruce, Rodger.

 >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:01:15 -0700
 >>>Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:51:30 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 ><snip>

 >>>This is why I can easily see the Trents as authentic. I can't
 >>>conceive how they could do it and not slip up somehow, let
 >>>alone the Trents even thinking up such an elaborate Hoax.

 >>Elaborate? Two pictures taken by a guy of a pie pan on a
 >>string?

 >Photo analysis shows it was clearly more complicated than just
 >hanging a pie pan on a string.

 ><snip>

 >>>However, the key may just be the Photos taken by
 >>>some simple farmer and his wife. Period.

 >>I agree. Whatever we think we can know about their motivations,
 >>intelligence, etc. The thing rests on the pictures.

 >A photo a UFO does not make. Probably any photo could be hoaxed
 >given enough time, knoweldge and money (for materials,
 >processing, etc). The photo acts as an aid to the witness'
 >memory. The photo could prove a hoax if some clear evidence of
 >fakery is found. But if no such evidence is found..... it could
 >still be a "perfect" hoax. No evidence of fakery found in the
 >Trent photos. But in principle they could have constructed a
 >model that just happened to have the characteristics that appear
 >in the image in their photos. Would have been lucky to create
 >same (hanging a pie pan would have been easier). To understand
 >why read the paper at:

 >mcmenamins.com

I have one Question - if the Trents suspended the "saucer" from
the lines, that would have taken a lot of courage for the lines
appear to be power, not phone lines, and I think even then,
house service was at least 440 volts ?

GT McCoy








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   May > May 18

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:15:39 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:30:44 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:23:29 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:56:33 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:19 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:31:58 -0700
 >>>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:55:59 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Wow. These hicks from the sticks actually accepted an invitation
 >to go, all expenses paid, to New York City. What more proof do
 >you need that they were liars?  Case closed.

Jerry, List:

I think the 'hicks from the sticks' thing is from somebody
else's thread.

Clear skies,

Bob Young









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   May > May 18

                          Re: Re: RAI DUE and UFOs

From: Alfredo Lissoni <alisson@tin.it>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:58:30 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:34:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: RAI DUE and UFOs


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:13:22 -0500
 >From: Giuliano Jimmy Marinkovicc - AGETI <9a4ag@clarc.org>
 >Subject: RAI DUE and UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hello dear UFO researchers.

 >Few weeks ago I have received this report from the member of my
 >AGETI mailing list. It sounds very interesting and I would like
 >to definetly hear more about it, because it seems this is some
 >kind of new ufology data with documents that were recently
 >released in Italy. Can anyone check this? Anyway, I am sedning
 >you the translation of the report in english. The name of the
 >the person who has sent this report is Dario Bernobicc
 >(AGETI_USENET_OPERATOR) and he is located in city Rijeka,
 >Croatia. He can be reached at dario.bernobic@ri.tel.hr

 >Now here comes the translation.

 >If anyone has any update on this please send it to me.

<snip>

Thanks to AGETI, Jimmy Marinkovicc and Phaeton

Best wishes from Italy!

I read yours comments about the Italian UFO files (since 1933)
on the web! Thanks!

Study about the Mussolini UFO files is very interesting. This
research goes on; according to these secret files, there were
many UFO-sightings between 1933 and 1940 in Italy and a special
secret Commission, during Facism, studied it.

It was founded by
Mussolini (with pilot Italo Balbo and Galeazzo Ciano; headed by
Guglielmo Marconi and senator Luigi Cozza and astronomer Gino
Cecchini).

The first UFO-case was in 1931 near Venice; in 1933
there was a UFO-landing in Lombardia, with UFO-recovery...

After this episode, Mussolini created the secret UFO-commission
'Gabinetto RS/33' (Cabinet Research and Espionage/33); he
believed UFOs were Allied secret weapons, but Marconi was for
the ET-hypothesis.

We have three telegrams (there are four) about the UFO recovery
near Milan in 1933, and a 'protocol' to the Prefect, for the
Italian secret services and for newsspapers, to cover this news.

The Italian MJ-12 was with the Italian teachers (University La
Sapienza, Rome) Vallauri, Pirotta, Crocco (founder Italian
rockets society), Debbasi o De Blasi, Bottazzi, Giordani and a
mysterious "Ruggero Costanti Cavazzani" (an alias).

Gabinetto RS investigated, between 1933 and 1940, many different
Italian UFO sightings:

in a case, an Italian fighter plane intercepted an UFO betwenn
Ravenna and Rome; in August 1936 there was a multiple UFO
sighting (ad Adamskyan-cygar and two UFOs like Saturn) over
Mestre and Venice. I think the German V-7 were developped after
this Italian research about UFOs; in fact Mussolini given all
the documents, during war, to the German experts...


Best wishes

Alfredo Lissoni (with Pinotti one of two Italian UFO researchers
of Mussolini's files...)











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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 18

                               Re: Trent Video

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:09:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:11:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Trent Video


Terry Halstead has informed me that he will send a copy of his
video reconstruction of the Trent sighting which includes
extensive interviews with the Trents, the newspaper editor
(Bladine) and the newspaper photograper (Powell). These
interviews were recorded in 1995 (the Trents died in 1997 and
1998).

This is the _only_ documentary ever made on the Trent case.

He will ship it anywhere in the USA for $20. (price includes
postage)

Contact:

halstead@pobox.com


Also, my second, large paper on the Trent case is posted (so far
without illustrations) at www.mcmenamins.com click on Hotel
Oregon and scroll down!








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   May > May 18

                      UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 20

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:09:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:39:30 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5, Number 20


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor
==================================


      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 20
May 18, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

mailto:Masinaigan@aol.com

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


TWO NEW CHUPACABRA
ATTACKS IN CHILE

      Two new Chupacabra attacks were reported
last week in Chile.  The attacks took place in farm
areas near the city of Concepcion, located 300
kilometers (180 miles) south of Santiago de Chile,
the national capital.
      "Four hens died a strange death in a section of
Huertas Familiares in spite of the fact that the
henhouse was closed and the birds were found in
the backyard with mysterious incisions on their bodies."
      "The Carabineros (Chile's national police--J.T.)
have blamed wild dogs as the culprits in this case."
      The dead hens were discovered by Sta. Emilia
Parra Campos.  "It was hardly the first time that
animals had died in the farmyard at Huertas Familiares,
in the vicinity of Coronel," a town 29 kilometers
(12 miles) south of Concepcion, "where she has lived
for 32 years. but the strange manner in which they were
found by landowner Pedro Contreras--outside of the
henhouse, scattered all over the backyard and
with sharp incisions in their bodies--leads them to believe
that something beyond the known was responsible."
      "'Dogs rip their prey apart and pull the feathers off
chickens,' said Emilia, still fearful and trying to explain
that the henhouse door was locked and that the predator
had attacked only the 'mottled' variety of hen, leaving the
other six white hens alone."
      "The penetration markes resembled those made by
an icepick, one per lesion with a slight tearing of
the capillaries..whatever animal that attacked must have
been large because some of the attacked chickens showed
(penetration) marks on both sides of the body.  None of them
were attacked in the throat, although there were marks on the
wings, back and breast."
      The attacks are believed to have taken place sometime
during the early morning hours of Sunday, May 7, 2000.
      "At around 9 a.m.," on Sunday, May 7, Pedro Contreras
"went to the henhouse to feed his chickens, stumbling upon the
nightmarish scene."
      "'It was either the Chupacabra or another strange creature,
because we have never had anything similar around here
before,' he said."
      "According to the Carabineros in the town of Coronel,
who visited the site to investigate these claims, said the
culprits were wild dogs that prowl the farms adjacent to
urban areas."
      The Carabineros "took the hens to the cuartel
(barracks) at Lagunillas."
      "The police report--which is the same one used for
all the animal deaths--was reinforced by a neighbor, Salome
Salgado, who claimed to have seen a black dog at 7 a.m.
on the roof of the henhouse."
(Editor's Comment:  Sounds like the infamous "Black Dog
of Lake Erie.")
      "However, Emilia Parra expressed her misgivings
that a dog could reach the top of the structure given the height
involved and the lack of any means to climb up there."
      The other attack took place on Thursday, May 4, 2000
at a farm in Quillacoya, a section of Hualqui, a suburb of
Concepcion.  Six sheep and one goat were killed in the
mysterious attack.
      "A claim received at the Third Criminal Court of
Concepcion is a result of the strange death of seven
animals in Quillacoya...to open what will be the first
inquest into the controversy unleashed by the so-called
Chupacabras."
      "The investigation was initiated by Judge Flora
Sepulveda, who immediately summoned the owner of
the animals and ordered the Department of Pathology
at the University of Concepcion to determine the cause
of the mass deaths."
      "According to a report issued by the Carabineros
at the Quillacoya cuartel to the criminal court, Paula
Rodriguez Toledo reported last Thursday *May 4)
that six sheep and a goat on her property were found
exsanguinated (drained of blood--J.T.) after having been
bitten by another animal.  Rodriguez thinks the sheep
and goat were attacked by wild dogs.  The animals owners,
however, are not so sure since the strange event took
place during the early morning hours of may 4, when all
members of the family were asleep."
      "'No one seems to have heard or seen anything,'
the Carabinero cuartel reported."  (Muchas gracias a
Scott Corrales, autor de los libros Chupacabras and Other
Mysteries y Forbidden Mexico, y tambien Gloria Coluchi
para esas historias.  See the newspapers Cronica of
Concepcion for May 8, 200 and Diario El Sur of
Concepcion for May 10, 2000.)

UFO AIMS BRIGHT LIGHT BEAM
AT A MOTORIST IN ARGENTINA

      "Once again, sightings of strange objects flying over the
area have been in the news" in Tandil, Argentina.
      Tandil is a mid-sized city located 110 kilometers
(66 miles) northwest of Mar del Plata and 384 kilometers
(230 miles) south of Buenos Aires, the national capital.
      "Several people claim to have seen powerful beams of
light last Tuesday," May 7, 2000, "with characteristics that
do not match any machines known to man."
      "One of those persons is Hugo Macias, 60, who works for
La Capital newspaper in Mar del Plata for the past 37 years
and delivers newspapers every morning, traveling between
that community, Balcarcel and Tandil."
      "'On Tuesday (May 7) at 5 a.m., as always.' he ex[;ains,
'I left the newspaper at the Policia Nacional (station) at Planta
Terrena, which is on the way to Puerta del Abra heading (east)
toward Mar del Plata.  I traveled another 6,000 meters (6 kilometers
or about 4 miles--J.T.) and suddenly heard a very strange noise
approaching me from behind, and I found myself 'contained' within
a powerful bright light.  I say 'contained' because the light
covered a diameter of 50 meters (165 feet) and penetrated all
sides of my vehicle.  It seemed to pierce the rooftop."
      "How long did this last?  'Seconds only, but it appeared
to be rather long.'"
      "Were there any other vehicles on the road?  'None
whatsoever.  During the remainder of the trip, I may have
passed two other cars.  It was a light traffic day.'"
      The Argentinian newspaper El Eco de Tandil questioned
Macias about the sighting.
      Reporter: "So what happened later?"
      Macias: "Well, I returned to Tandil and discussed the event
with a group of friends and with a gentleman who belongws to
the Army Command and to whom I bring the newspaper every
day.  When I returned to Mar del Plata, I decided to stop at the
police station and see if the duty guard had seen anything
during the night.  But he wasn't there.  There was another one
who told me that there were five or six separate witnesses who
had seen the same thing."
      "But the story doesn't end there," Macias added, "On the
same day, with a half-hour (time) difference, a similar case
hadbeen reported over Tandil.  The gentleman from the Army
Command told me that there were guards on duty the very
same night I had my experience who witnessed a light in the
sky, with a very strange shape."
      Reporter: "Are there objects commonly seen here?"
      Macias: "On the way from Tandil, I made this comment
to Officer Lopez of El Dorado (a town on Camino Nacional 226
near Tandil--J.T.) who is knowledgeable about UFOs, and he
advised me as to why the (Argentinian) police avoid getting into
the subject."
      According to Macias, Officer Lopez made the astounding
claim that "NASA can send an airplane with six scientists
anywhere in the world and carry with them an all-terrain
vehicle (ATV) in which they can visit locales in person.  Many
lolcal residents don't like strange visitors there."
      Macias: "My experience was lovely because what first
began as fear is now satisfaction at having been contacted by
something which researchers in the field would like to have seen
but never have."
      "The power of the beam of light is not a power produced by
any luminous sourcee that we now have," Macias added, "At the
time I felt nothing at all, physically, but for the past five
days I have felt a headache, laryngitis and other symptoms.
Nothing like this has ever happened to me before.  Nor did I ever
think it could happen to me.  I'm just happy for the chance to
have lived through a spiritual experience like this one."
*See the newspaper El Eco de Tandil for May 9, 2000.
Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Gloria Coluchi y Mario
Robini para esta histopria.)

POPE REVEALS THE THIRD
SECRET OF FATIMA

      "The Vatican Saturday (May 13, 2000) which for
decades has kept this shring" at Cova da Iria, near Fatima,
Portugal "at the center of conspiracy theories and doomsday
cults, describing the secret as a vision of the 1981
assassination attempt on the pope."
      "Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican secretary of
state, explained that the one concealed part of the (1917)
prophecies revealed to three Portuguese shepherd children
by an apparition of the Virgin in 1917 was a vision of an
attempt to kill a pope."
      "'The bishop 'clothed in white' makes his way with great
effort towards the cross amid the corpses of those who were
martyred,' Soldan told 6,000 pilgrims gathered at the
sanctuary where (Pope) John Paul II had just beatified two of
the shepherd children, Francisco and Jacinta Marto, and
thanked the Virgin for saving his life on May 13, 1981."
      "'He, too, falls to the ground, apparently dead,
under a burst of gunfire,' the cardinal said, describing
the vision."
      Francisco and Jacinta are now on the fast track to
sainthood in the Roman Catholic Church.  Two mircales
must be attributed to them before they can change their
title from Blessed to Saint.
      "The announcement was an effort by the Vatican to put
an end to the kind of fevered speculation that has at times
overshadowed the shrine's spiritual importance to hundreds
of millions of Catholics.  Versions of the secret, broadcast on
hundreds of Web sites (usually under headlines like 'Third
Secret Revealed!') range from worldwide nuclear
annihilation to deep rifts within the Roman Catholic
Church that lead to rival papcies" to an invasion by
aliens from space.
      "Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turkish gunman who shot the
pope in St. Peter's Square (in Rome) in 1981, told
prosecutors at this trial in 1985 that his attempt was
'connected to the third secret of the Madonna at
Fatima.'"
      "Fatima fanatics have held hunger strikes--one even
hijacked a plane--to try to force the Vatican to disclose
the secret.  During John Paul's visit to the shrine in 1982,
on the first anniversary of the assassination attempt by
Agca, a knife-wielding Spanish priest tried to kill the pope
but was wrestled to the ground by security officers."
      "John Paul has always credited the Virgin of Fatima
with saving his life in 1981, when the assassination fell
on her feast day, May 13.  After he first visited the shrine
in 1982 to give thanks for his survival, a bullet extracted
from his body was placed alongside diamonds in a gold
crown worn by a statue of the Virgin."
      "In 1991, on the tenth anniversary of the assassination
attempt, he returned again to give thanks for his life
and as well as the recent collapse of Communism, a
fate that believers say the Virgin also predicted in 1917."
      "'On this solem occasion of his visit to Fatima,
his holiness has directed me to make an announcement to
you,' Sodano said, adding that the pope 'wishes his pilgrimage
to be a renewed gesture of gratitude to Our Lady for her
protection his papacy.   This protection seems also to be
linked to the so-called third part of the secret of Fatima.'"
      "The cardinal said the secret in its entirety would soon be
published by the Vatigan 'after the preparation of an
appropriate commentary.'"
(Editor's Comment:  Here's where the Vatican and I come to a
parting of the ways.  I vividly remember the assassination
attempt in 1981, and the circumstances do not fit the 1917
prophecy.  The Fatima kids' prophetic vision of a pope
forced to walk down a pathway with thousands of corpses
on either side is ominously similar to Padre Pio Forginone's
  vision of 1970.  Bothvisions refer to the "Good Pope"
or "the Pope of the Last Days" who will be murdered
by the Antichrist's one-world government in the future.)
      "The pope Saturday referred to the prophecies, speaking
of 'Fatima, where these times of tribulation were foretold,'
but he made no mention of the 'third secret.'  Instead, he
once again gave thanks 'for the goodness of God towards me,
when severely struck on May 13, 1981, I was rescued from
death.'"
      "The pope, who turns 80 on Saturday (May 20)
met privately inside the basilica near the children's tombs
with the third surviving witness to the apparitions, Lucia
(Abobora) dos Santos, 93, a Carmeltie nun, who believers
say was the main recipient of prophecies from the Virgin
about 20th Century debacles."
      "But it is the third secret, which legend says was
delivered to the Vatican in a sealed envelkope in 1943
and has been kept secret by all the popes who have
seen it, that has kept Fatima at the center of apocalyptic
fears nd controversy.  Vatican officials did not say why
the secret was not revealed sooner."
      "The fact that the pope put the two dead witnesses
to the Virgin's apparition on the path to sainthood Saturday
was another sign of his devotion to the cult of Fatima.
Francisco and Jacinta Marto are the first children ever
beatified by the Roman Catholic Church who were not
martyrs.  Beatification if the penultimate step before
sainthood."
      Unfortunately, no longer alive to witness the
ceremony is Francisco Marto's catechism teacher,
Sister Maria Annunciata of Aljustrel, Portugal, also
known as the "Accidental Seeress."  Upon hearing of
the apparitions back in 1917, and aware of the nine-
year-old boy's penchant for mischief, she was very
skeptical.  "Francisco Marto--a saint!?" she said, with
a laugh.  "That will happen when they elect a Polack
the pope."  (Nice prediction, Sister.  You're a regular
Nostradamus--J.T.)  (See the Duluth, Minn.  News-Tribune
for May 14, 2000, "Vatican Reveals 'Third Secret' of Fatima,"
page 10A.  Also La Republica of Rome, Italy for
May 14, 2000.)

TWO CROP CIRCLES APPEAR
NEAR ZIERENBERG, GERMANY

      Two crop circles appeared on May 1 and may 9 in
fields of oilseed rape near the small town of Zoerenberg,
near Kassel in Hessen state.  Kassel is 150 kilometers
(90 miles) southwest of Berlin.
      "Germany's first crop circle of the year and the
New Millenium appeared on monday, May 1, 2000 in
a field of oilseed rape at Aitenhasungen," near
Zierenberg.
      "Bsically, it was a dumbbell shape and about 25
meters (83 feet) in length, with two different-sized circles,
one with a standing centre surrounded by a curved or
kinked pathm accompanied by two grapeshots, one
showing a single standing stalk in its centre."
      "The lay was nice, and no muddy footprints or
crushing marks were present when the formation was
found at about 6 a.m.  Later visitors to the field
caused much damage and left many muddy traces on
the flattened crop due to a very humid (damp) soil."
      "Since 1998, the area around Zierenberg, near
Kassel, has become Germany's crop circle hotspot.
Each May 1 (Beltane), a new formation has been
found each year in this vicinity."
      "Eight days later," on Tuesday, May 8, 2000,
"Klaus Listmann discovered a single circle of about
10 meters (33 feet) in diameter in a field of oilseed rape
at Gut Rangen, again near Zierenberg."
      German cerealogist Wolfgang Ring "reported that it was
nearly impossible to enter the field without causing a track
by walking through the one-meter high rape that had grown
into each other, creating a non-walkable 'jungle.'
Neverthless, the circle itself showed no entry tracks.
Nor was it connected to any walkable path."  (Vielen dank
zum Andreas Mueller von International Crop Circle Archive
for this report.)

HIGH-FLYING UFOs SPOTTED
OVER DENVER, COLORADO

      On Wednesday, May 10, 2000, at 9:40 p.m., the
witness, his wife and his brother-in-law "were standing
our apartment" near the intersection of 72nd and
Wadsworth Streets in Denver, the state capital of
Colorado, "when I noticed a 'star' moving very rapidly
across the sky in a northerly direction.  While watching
this, we saw it pass another circular object that was
heding south.  The second object disappeared over
our apartment building."
      ""In a few minutes, another object reappeared in a
northwesterly direction at first, but then changed to a
northeasterly direction.  There appeared to be stars
that were moving.  There were no trails, flashing lights or
sounds of any kind.  I personally have never seen anything
that would explain what we saw."
      "Because they were mere pinpoints of light, I have no
reference to estimate the altitude, but my guess is that they
were very high, far higher than commercial aircraft.  But
this is only a guess."  (Many thanks to Cliff Capers of
Skywatch International for this report.)

JESUS CHRIST APPEARS IN A
KANSAS TOWN JUST BEFORE
A BIG TORNADO

      On Palm Sunday, April 16, 2000, an apparition of
Jesus Christ materialized at the fairgrounds in Parsons
(population 11,300), a small town in southeastern Kansas
about 55 miles (88 kilometers) northwest of Joplin,
Missouri.
      Dozens of witnesses at a carnival (fun fair in UK--J.T.)
saw the apparition, described as "a figure with his arms
outstretched, wearing a long white robe."
      A Polaroid photograph was taken, which shows
the glowing figure standing in a darkened parking lot
with carnival lights and amusement ride lights in the
background.  The photo was published on page one of
the Parsons, Kans. Sun on Wednesday, April 19, 2000.
      "Ann Charles, editor of the Parsons Sun, said the time-
lapse photograph...was delivered to her office a few moments
before the tornado struck."
      "The people of this small Midwest town say Christ saved
them from a killer tornado--and they claim this amazing photo
proves they were granted a miracle."
      "The twister (USA slang for tornado--J.T.) swept through
Parsons, Kansas on Palm Sunday, just two hours after the
picture was taken.  More than 200 homes and buildings
were flattene, but only a handful of minor injuries
were reported, including a broken leg."
      "Stunned survivors asked themselves, 'Why were our
lives spared?'"
      "Then their local paper ran the photo three days
later--and the mystery was solved."
      "'That's Jesus Christ,' said Parsons resident
Lanette Stice.  'You can see the rays of light going
across from the (carnival) rides, and then right smack
in the middle of it is Christ.'"
      "'It means that God was there to protect us, and
that Jesus had his hand on our town,'" she added.
      "Mayor Tom McLarty says he has no doubt that
the miraculous photo shows The Savior."
      "'It doesn't take much imagination to see the
image with outstretched arms,' he says, 'And to think
the carnival was wiped off the map just a few hours
later.'"  (See the Parsons, Kans. Sun for April 19,
2000.  Also Sun: Unexplained Mysteries and Marvels
for Nay 23, 2000, page 34.)

UN AND REBELS SLUG IT OUT
IN SIERRA LEONE

      Heavy fighting continued last week in the west
African nation of Sierra Leone between United
Nations peacekeepers, also known as the "Blue
Helmets," and forces of the rebel Revolutionary
Untied Front (RUF).
      From Saturday, May 6, to Monday, May 8, 2000,
RUF guerrillas and UN forces battled for control of
Masiaka, a town 72 kilometers (45 miles) east of
Freetown, the national capital.
      "The (UN) peacekeeprs withdrew from Masiaka,
45 miles east of Freetown, after exchanging gunfire
with unknown attackers and running out of ammunition,
UN spokesman David Winhurst said."
      "Helicopter reconnaisance showed Masiaka was
empty Tuesday afternoon (May 9, 2000), Winhurst said.
He added, 'Freetown is not going to fall to the RUF."
      "Hundreds of refugees from the Masiaka area had reached
the edge of Freetown by Tuesday afternoon, officials said."
      Within the capital itself, rioting broke out on Monday
around the residence of Gen. Foday Sankoh, leader of the
RUF.  When Blue Helmets failed to hold back the crowds
of rock-throwing demonstrators, Sankoh's guards "opened
fire on demonstrators.  Thirteen civilians and six soldiers
were killed."
      "The United States has saidthat the U.S. Air Force is
prepared to fly in a battalion of 700 to 800 peacekeepers
from Bangladesh."
      ""Late Monday, the United Nations began evacuating
some of its 266 non-essential civilian employees.
An additional 55 were staying in Freetown, UN officials
said."
      French diplomat "Bernard Miyet, the head of UN
peacekeeping operations, arrived in Freetown and was
meeting UN soldiers and officials to assess the situation
and 'to demonstrate to the world...that we'rde determined
to put the peace process back on track,' Wimhurst said."
      Throughout the week, troops from UN member nations
continued to reinforce the embattled United nations Mission
to Sierra Leone (UNAMSIL).  A battalion from Jordan
arrived on Wednesday, may 10, 2000.  "The Jordanians'
arrival increased the UN force to 9,000, although
500 remained hostages (P.O.W.s) of the rebels.
More troops from Jordan, India and Bangladesh are
expected eventually to bring the force to the total of
11,000 authrorized by the Security Council.
      But the RUF has been recruiting, as well.  The
number of rebel troops has now reached 15,000, up
50 percent from last week.  The RUF is outfitting the
newcomers with weapons, uniforms and equipment
taken from its UN prisoners.
      "Fred Eckhard, the spokesman for UN Secretary-
General Kofi Annan, said there were reports that RUF
troops were 'on the move' and UN personnel were
undertaking 'an emergency mission' to determine how many
civilians were fleeing towards Freetown."
      Also on Wednesday, RUF soldiers "reportedly were in
Waterloo, about 18 miles (29 kilometers) south of
Freetown."
      "'Waterloo is now the front line,' said Joseph Jalloh,,
an army commander" loyal to Sierra Leone's central government.
"He said the government expected an attack there by to forces of
the rebel RUF."
      "'We hope it does not come to a pitched battle, but in
effect we are preparing for one,' said Eckhard."
      On Thursday, May 11, RUF forces attacked Newtown,
just east of the capital.  Firefights were reported on the
outskirts, and hundreds of civilians fled west.
      Two permanent members of the Security Council,
Britain and Russia, committed military forces to the fight.
      "Secretary-General Kofi Annan, speaking at a late-night
emergency meeting of the Security Council, welcome
the deployment of about 800 British troops as well as the
offers by West African countries to contribute extra forces--
including a possible rapid-reaction force that could take
on a combat role in enforcing the peace accord."
      "Russia is considering sending 100 peacekeepers to
join the United nations mission in Sierra Leone, if the
plan is approved by President Vladimir Putin, the Defense
Ministry said Thursday."
      All week British Westland helicopters "moved UN troops
to the front as they evacuated British citizens."
      "On Thursday, Prime Minister Tony Blair said British
troops would have no combat role.  But he added that they
migght remain here for as long as a month to help the United
Nations build up its force."
      "At the United nations," in New York City, "Annan
said major nations with powerful militaries needed to
live up to their responsibilities in Sierra leone.  'The UN is as
strong as its member statesm' he told reporters as he entered
UN headquarters.  'I hope some of them will come to the
assistance of those who are in there doing the bidding of the
Security Council."
      Many members of the USA Senate have criticized
Annan's intervention in Sierra leone.  During hearings
this week, Sen. Rod GRams (Republican of Minnesota)
"called the UN force's performance in Sierra Leone 'a train
wreck.'  He said, 'Peacekeepers cannot maintain security for
themselves, much less anybody else.'"  (See USA Today for
May 10, 2000, ""Peacekeepers pull back after attack in Sierra
leone," page A10.  Also the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for
May 13, 2000, "U.N. chief wants more U.S. military help;"
the St. Paul, Minn. Pioneer Press for may 13, 2000,  "U.N.
chief laments limited U.S. role in African peacekeeping
efforts;"  and "More troops arrive to protect Freetown
against rebels."  Also USA Today for May 11, 2000,
"U.N. peackeepers prepare for 'pitched battle,"
and for May 12, 2000, "100 Russian troops may join U.N.
force in Sierra Leone.")
*Editor's Comment:  Lest we forget, this war began when
the Security Council decided that it would no longer allow
the sovereignty of the UN member states ro stand in the way
of its "humanitarian" military operations.  Don't think the
Security Council will limit itself to small countries
like Sierra Leone and Gambia.  Blue Helmets could just as
easily occupy the USA's state of South Carolina, the UK's
Derbyshire, Russia's Crimea or Mexico's Yucatan.)

from the UFO Files...

1988: LONESOME HIGHWAY

      For want of a better term, this phenomen could be called
a Highway Space Warp (HSW) experience.  There's a case
now being investigated by ufologist Mike Harman which took
place in West Texas back in 1988.  (The names have been
changed to protect the privacy of the witnesses--J.T.)
      On December 22, 1998, Mark Hasbrouck, 30, a truck
driver from Wilmington, North Carolina, stopped his Peterbilt
rig at the USA/Mexico border in Nogales, Arizona.
      "I was leaving Mexico with a load of broccoli, and I had
waited all day to get shaved ice blown into the truck
(trailer) in Nogales (Sonora state, Mexico).  I went north
(on Interstate Highway I-19) and picked up (Interstate
Highway I-10 and began the easterly trek."
      "I was stopped at the exit scale in Texas, as I had run out
of hours.  (In the USA, truck drivers can only stay on the road
for a limited period of hours--J.T.)  I was forced to shut down
for eight hours.  It was 3:20 or so p.m.  I logged that I had
left the road at 3:15 p.m. on December 22."
      After pulling into a roadside truck stop, Mark let the
engine idle while he had a shower.  Then he went to
the truck stop diner.  Here he met a couple of eastbound
gearjammers (USA slang for truck drivers--J.T.)  Since they
were all headed east, they decided to travel together as a
convoy.
      The two drivers were Larry Greenwood, a man of African
ancestry from South Carolina, who used the nickname of
"Congaree" on the citizen's band (CB) radio.  And 40-year-old
Zeke Matlich, who used the CB call sign of "Zero."
      One after the other, the eighteen-wheelers pulled out of
the truck stop.  With a roar, they headed east across the
night-clad "brush country" desert of western Texas.  Mesquite
and sagebrush rolled away toward the black brooding
nountains on the southern horizon.
      About an hour later, Mark head a static squeal on his
CB radio.  Larry's voice came through.  "Break for that
Jammer.  Got your ears on, son?"
      Mark plucked his microphone off the dashboard.
"Surely do, good buddy.  That's a big ten-four."
      "Jammer, my baby's running a little rough.  You
want the cradle?  Come back."
      "The cradle" was the middle position in the three-
truck convoy.  "Affirmative, Congaree.  If you get in
any trouble, give us a holler.  Come back."
      "Hammer down, Jammer.  See you in Fort
Stockton.  Ten-four."
      Stepping down on the accelerator, Mark eased his
Peterbilt rig ahead of Larry's Ajax Transportation truck.
Once again, he pulled back into the lane between the
two and resumed the drive eastward.
      "I was about a half-mile behind the first truck,"
Mark recalled.  He could see Zeke's red tail lights
ahead of him, speeding down the deserted interstate
highway.  They were speeding across the desolate
22-mile stretch of desert between Sierra Blanca and
Allamore.  It was December 23, 1988, and it was precisely
1:10 a.m.
      "Something strange happened to me.  Zero went
over a hill in front of me.  And I saw some
owls in the road.  They were brown with large
luminous eyes.  I remember thinking, What a strange
thing..."
      No sooner had he lost sight of the first truck than Mark
hward Zeke's voice on the CB radio.  "Breaker!  Breaker!
Jammer!  Where the hell are you!?"
      Mark thumbed the microphone's transmit button.
"Right here, good buddy.  Come back."
      "Jammer!  What happened!?  We've been trying
to raise you for the past fifteen minutes."
      "We?" Mark echoed.
      "Me and Larry.  We've been burning up the air
waves, but you ain't been answering."
      Frowning, Mark thumbed the mike again.  "Congaree!
You got your ears on?"
      "Don't bother, Jammer," Zero said.  "He's standing right
here with me.  At the Allamore exit!"
      Stunned, Mark stared out the windshield.  Somehow
Larry had passed him on the highway.  How could that be?
How could he have passed him in a truck of that size
and not been noticed?
      Sure enough, Mark found the two truckers "both ahead
of me on the side of the road.  I pulled over when I got to
them.  They said it had been 30 minutes
ago when I last talked on the CB.  I looked at my watch
and said that it was 1:16 a.m.  And we checked (the dashboard
clock on) my truck, which was the same as my watch.
And we checked both of their watches and the clocks in
their trucks, and they were the same."
      The strain was too much for Larry, who had been
looking out the windshield when he suddenly and inexplicably
lost sight of Mark's Peterbilt rig ahead of him.  "The big guy
began screaming and crying, and he left in a hurry."
      Mark and Zero drove on to Allamore, Texas.  They
stopped at a truck stop cafe "and talked about it for quite
a while."  Neither man could figure out the eerie time
discrepancy
      Just then, Arla Seguin, the pretty dark-haired Latina
waitress, stopped at their table.  "Hola, caminoneros!
Are you ready to order?"
      Without even thinking about it, Mark blurted out,
"Claro que si.  Traigame un bistec con la salsa picante
y las papas fritas, por favor.  Tambien un Pepsi."
      Arla instantly brightened.  "Cuando estuve usted en
San Luis Potosi, senor?"
      Rapidly blinking in confusion, he replied, "I--I was
never in San Luis Potosi."
     Arla smiled impishly.  "You really know how to
fake the accent, then."
      "I--I d-don't speak Spanish," Mark mumbled.
      "Good buddy, what are you talking about?" Zero said.
"I just heard you chatting away with this here gal."
      "I can't speak Spanish!"  Mark gripped his friend's
forearm.  "Listen to me.  I never took the class in Spanish
in my life, so help me God!  I don't know any Spanish-
speaking people."  His eyes widened in terror.  "Lord, what
happened to me out there!?"  (Many thanks to Mike Harman
for this feature story.)
      Next Week: Utah's Mysterious Gadianton Canyon

      Join us in seven days for more UFO and paranormal news
from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper
that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or in news
groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor
by name and list the date of issue.  .

*********************************************************
IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

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Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
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UFO + PSI Magazine also available, plus archives of
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   May > May 18

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:31:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:43:07 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:15:39 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:23:29 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 07:56:33 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:19 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>>Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:31:58 -0700
 >>>>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:55:59 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

Bob,

 >I think the 'hicks from the sticks' thing is from somebody
 >else's thread.

True, but the strange argument -- that the most innocuous
behavior becomes full of sinister meaning when UFO witnesses
engage in it -- is yours. People who have all manner of
experiences, very few of them having to do with UFOs, go on
television and talk about them all the time, without their
motives and honesty being subjected to question. I imagine that
the Trents thought a free, all-expenses paid trip to New York
City sounded pretty tempting. There is not an iota of evidence
that their decision had anything to do with the UFO photographs
they took. I can't imagine why that trip should come up in any
serious discussion of the photos' authenticity.

Jerry Clark









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                             Re: RAI DUE and UFO

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:19:55 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:49:35 -0400
Subject: Re: RAI DUE and UFO


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:13:22 -0500
 >From: Giuliano Jimmy Marinkovicc - AGETI <9a4ag@clarc.org>
 >Subject: RAI DUE and UFOs
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Hello dear UFO researchers.

 >Few weeks ago I have received this report from the member of my
 >AGETI mailing list. It sounds very interesting and I would like
 >to definetly hear more about it, because it seems this is some
 >kind of new ufology data with documents that were recently
 >released in Italy. Can anyone check this? Anyway, I am sedning
 >you the translation of the report in english. The name of the
 >the person who has sent this report is Dario Bernobicc
 >(AGETI_USENET_OPERATOR) and he is located in city Rijeka,
 >Croatia. He can be reached at dario.bernobic@ri.tel.hr

 >Now here comes the translation.

 >If anyone has any update on this please send it to me.

 >=====================================================
 >==TRANSLATED MAIL FROM CROATIAN LANGUAGE TO ENGLISH==
 >=====================================================

 >Message 2:
 >From: "Phaeton" <dario.bernobic@ri.tel.hr
 >Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:59:53 +0200
 >Subject: [AGETI] Short review of the UFO show broadcasted at RAI DUE

 >Hello

 >One week ago about noon, on Italian national TV station RAI DUE
 >the show 'I fatti voostri", was broadcast. The show features
 >many different guests who speak about different subjects. That
 >day I have accidentaly switched to that station and heard that
 >them speaking about UFOs. I immediatly started to record, and
 >now I have found some free time to write this short review for
 >the list :)))

<snip>

Dear EBK and Listers, some gentle, some real tail twisters....

In response to the above, I must begin by saying that I am NOT
Italian. I am Sicilian. Any Alt' Italian will agree with this.
Also, any non-Sicilian will agree.

As is fairly well known, Sicilian people have been raped,
pillaged and impregnated by virtually every known and virtually
many unknown races, that we absolutely _must_ assume, that we
have been visited by Aliens too. Has to be. I mean, think about
it.

There is a small country village in Palermo called (phonetically
spelled here) "Medzu Yuzo." According to gramma, may she rest,
it is a bastardization of Arabic and literally means, "In
between downstairs!" Of course, in the analysis of this seeming
gibberish, one can conclude that there is an Alien influence in
the logic of "in between downstairs..." in that it makes no
other sense than my recalling flying up in the sky on a beam of
light. Which is as ludicrous as "In between downstairs."
Actually, the place is really in between the two lower levels of
the Palermian landscape, and just north of where the Capo's
thrive to this day, and harbor Michael Corlione EVEN AS WE
SPEAK!

Have I made my point or does it still remain on the top of my
head?

Now about this story of "Il Commanditore." The man is obviously
an Alien Lizard. It's in the eyes. From my experiences with
Aliens I must assume that this particular version of Alien
Lizard is Beta Ridiculian... Ridiculousian... whatever.

And so in conclusion, how can anyone believe what an Alien
Lizard has to say? Huh? So, on these grounds alone, we must
discount the version of the story given above. You have my word
on it. _And_ I am a Sicigiliano ala primo classa. Buon Homme.
Consigliaro. Capo di Tutti Capi. Una Principia. And good lookin.

I am also a presumed abductee. So there must needs be another,
second conclusion drawn here. And that would be, you cannot
believe a word I say. Reasearchers, it's a dammned tough life in
your business ain't it?


Giaccomo Salvatore Migaeli Mortellaro,
Shtoonadu, beto contente.







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:59:18 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:52:07 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:07:50 -0700
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:40 -0400
 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hello, All, Bruce, Rodger.

 > >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>>>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:01:15 -0700
 >>>Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:51:30 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

<snip

 >I have one Question - if the Trents suspended the "saucer" from
 >the lines, that would have taken a lot of courage for the lines
 >appear to be power, not phone lines, and I think even then,
 >house service was at least 440 volts ?

 >GT McCoy

GT & List:

I guess the weight from a (light weight?) "model saucer" should
also bend the phone/power lines a little bit. And, that's not
clearly visible on the photos, just above the saucer, is it?

Further, I wonder if it's possible to detect that the
trees/bushes shown on the 2 photos bent (slightly?) in the wind
(gusts) emenating from the saucer, as reported by the Trents?
Are the position of the plants/branches somewhat different in
the 2 photos?

Further, do we know anything about the existence of any military
and/or civilian airfields (installations) in the McMinnville
area - in those days?

And, I think we shouldn't underestimate the possibilities for
the Trents to make a hoax. Even though they were (seemingly)
"simple peasants", they were surely clever enough to do this!


Regards,

Asgeir









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   May > May 20

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:40:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 03:00:10 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:07:50 -0700
 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >I have one Question - if the Trents suspended the "saucer" from
 >the lines, that would have taken a lot of courage for the lines
 >appear to be power, not phone lines, and I think even then,
 >house service was at least 440 volts ?

The power lines provided power for one or two light bulbs in the
garage. Most probably 110-115 VAC.









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   May > May 20

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:46:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 03:08:01 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:19 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:31:58 -0700
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:55:59 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 ><snip>

 >>When it comes down to UFO hoaxes, the bottom line in the
 >>majority of cases, in my experience, is money and/or fame.

 >Royce, List:

 >How about an additional motivation of just playing a trick on
 >your friends, or perhaps trying to prove that you have seen
 >saucers?  Mrs. Trent was quoted as saying that they had seen
 >some before but people wouldn't believe them.

 >>There is nothing that suggests the Trents were in it for the
 >>money or the fame. The sighting turned their world upside down
 >>and inside out.

 >What if the original hoax, prank or whatever one might call it,
 >just got out of hand when it was reported to the local paper?
 >Perhaps that might explain why they never made an issue about
 >the money. They knew the pictures were fakes and just wanted the
 >thing to go away.  Of course the fact that they traveled to New
 >York to appear on a show does suggest that they weren't entirely
 >bashful.

 >There were two versions of what happened.  One told to a local
 >radio station, and a slightly different version to the papers.
 >Then they may have just decided to stick with one.

 >Royce, you may be absolutely right about them, but your
 >certainty that you think that you know they are telling the truth
 >suggests to me that you might be taken in a lot quicker than you
 >think.  Just a cautionary thought.


Bob,

Your comment, "you might be taken in a lot quicker than you
think," compels me to believe that you think you know who I am
and what I think. I am by far one of the more skeptical
UFOlogists out here. I question everyone and everything when it
comes to UFOs. I especially question people who continue to
debunk what is, in my opinion, one of the best UFO cases out
there with nothing to back up that it is a hoax.

I'm currently in law enforcement and conduct criminal
investigations. I deal with liars, thieves, druggies and more
con artists that you can imagine or probably will ever deal with
in your life. People lie to me on a daily basis. A case that was
recently completed by me resulted in a 17 count Grand Jury
indictment and later multiple felony criminal conviction. My
point? I don't just get "taken in," unlike a lot of people I
actually do my homework and have the training in properly
conducting a real investigation, unlike a lot of so-called UFO
investigators. How many of the debunkers and skeptics went out
and interviewed the Trents? How many actually visited the farm
where the photos were taken? How many have actually done a
comprehensive analysis of the photos and/or negatives? Not a
lot, not to the degree that people such as Bruce Macabee have
gone to in investigating this case. And Bruce is still
investigating the case as much as it can be. So in your mind
Bruce is wrong, the Condon Committee is wrong and so is every
other qualified analyst that has supported the photos. I wonder
how many sat at home on the toilet with a copy of the recent
Oregonian convincing themselves they had single handedly solved
the case and that it was nothing more than a model and some
string or that the UFO was a cut and paste job...a lot,
probably.

As for my "certainty" regarding whether or not the Trents are
being truthful or deceptive, I clearly based this _opinion_ on
all the _facts_ of the case that are available. I remember
reading about the Trents sometime ago and when I was in Portland
on other business, I decided to try and contact them. I was
interested in the case but at no time formed an opinion as to
the nature of the case until I had done some digging into it.
Also, just because someone says they've seen UFOs before and
then photographs one does not make them suspect especially when
the photos stand on their own. We're not talking about Billie
Meier here. As I said before, the Trents clearly stated they did
not believe in UFOs or aliens and they thought what they had
photographed was a secret military aircraft. People seem to be
overlooking this small but crucial fact or simply ignoring it.
So why play a UFO "prank" when you think it might be a secret
military aircraft.  Maybe it was a secret military aircraft.

While it is true the Trents took the trip to New York this
proves nothing pertaining to motive, whether you're talking
about financial gain or otherwise. You have to have a solid
motive for an action unless you're dealing with a sociopath. I'm
quite sure that the Trents didn't sit down, produce some of the
best UFO photos ever with the motive of going to New York to
appear on some show they'd never heard of. Of course, maybe I'm
just being "taken in a lot quicker" than I think...

So instead of throwing around tiresome model theories and
conjecture about pie pans and strings or dangling street lights,
why not try to come up with something just a bit more
substantial. Show me the money, or the string in this case. I
will be the first to say congratulations if someone proves this
to be a hoax and I will also be the first to admit that my
_opinion_ was wrong...unlike some people in this field. I also
want to be clear that the Trent photos show a UFO, this does not
translate into aliens or otherwise. To me, it simply means they
photographed an extraordinary Unidentified Flying Object.

Again, prove your case or file it away. Present me with concrete
_facts_ and not some flimsy theory that has no basis for
support. Put up and I'll gladly shut up. I'm more than willing
to look at any evidence in this case just as are the other
people looking at it. Thanks.

Warm Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind...or
the thin line holding up your UFO model theory...
ufowatchdog@earthlink.net
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)








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   May > May 20

                            Re: RAI DUE and UFOs

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 19:44:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 03:12:41 -0400
Subject: Re: RAI DUE and UFOs


 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:58:30 +0200
 >From: Alfredo Lissoni <alisson@tin.it>
 >Subject: Re: RAI DUE and UFOs
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Hello, all, Alfredo, Giuliano.

 >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:13:22 -0500
 >>From: Giuliano Jimmy Marinkovicc - AGETI <9a4ag@clarc.org>
 >>Subject: RAI DUE and UFOs
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Hello dear UFO researchers.

 >>Few weeks ago I have received this report from the member of my
 >>AGETI mailing list. It sounds very interesting and I would like
 >>to definetly hear more about it, because it seems this is some
 >>kind of new ufology data with documents that were recently
 >>released in Italy. Can anyone check this? Anyway, I am sedning
 >>you the translation of the report in english. The name of the
 >>the person who has sent this report is Dario Bernobicc
 >>(AGETI_USENET_OPERATOR) and he is located in city Rijeka,
 >>Croatia. He can be reached at dario.bernobic@ri.tel.hr

 >>Now here comes the translation.

 >>If anyone has any update on this please send it to me.

 ><snip>

 >Thanks to AGETI, Jimmy Marinkovicc and Phaeton

 >Best wishes from Italy!

 >I read yours comments about the Italian UFO files (since 1933)
 >on the web! Thanks!

 >Study about the Mussolini UFO files is very interesting. This
 >research goes on; according to these secret files, there were
 >many UFO-sightings between 1933 and 1940 in Italy and a special
 >secret Commission, during Facism, studied it.

 >It was founded by
 >Mussolini (with pilot Italo Balbo and Galeazzo Ciano; headed by
 >Guglielmo Marconi and senator Luigi Cozza and astronomer Gino
 >Cecchini).

Balbo-one of the greatest airmen, up there with
Doolittle,Lindberg, Alcock and Brown, Nussinger, et. al.

Italo Balbo flew several SM -55's around the world in , I
believe 1935. on of the SM-55's resides at the bottom of a lake
in the southwest US,(They were rather advanced Twin Engine
Flying Boats.) Oh, by the way Mussolini _hated_ Balbo partly
because of his flying skill, (Il Duce thought himself a Sierra
Hotel flying ace.) Partly he saw him as a threat-hence Balbo's
dying under-well, mysterious circumstances, as I recall.

 >The first UFO-case was in 1931 near Venice; in 1933
 >there was a UFO-landing in Lombardia, with UFO-recovery...

Prove it, or at least publish.

 >After this episode, Mussolini created the secret UFO-commission
 >'Gabinetto RS/33' (Cabinet Research and Espionage/33); he
 >believed UFOs were Allied secret weapons, but Marconi was for
 >the ET-hypothesis.

Can any one enlighten me, I thought Marconi was for all
purposes, a British Citizen? and not a fan of Il Duce?

 >We have three telegrams (there are four) about the UFO recovery
 >near Milan in 1933, and a 'protocol' to the Prefect, for the
 >Italian secret services and for newsspapers, to cover this news.

 >The Italian MJ-12 was with the Italian teachers (University La
 >Sapienza, Rome) Vallauri, Pirotta, Crocco (founder Italian
 >rockets society), Debbasi o De Blasi, Bottazzi, Giordani and a
 >mysterious "Ruggero Costanti Cavazzani" (an alias).

None of them even a Corso or Marcel?

 >Gabinetto RS investigated, between 1933 and 1940, many different
 >Italian UFO sightings:

 >in a case, an Italian fighter plane intercepted an UFO betwenn
 >Ravenna and Rome; in August 1936 there was a multiple UFO
 >sighting (ad Adamskyan-cygar and two UFOs like Saturn) over
 >Mestre and Venice. I think the German V-7 were developped after
 >this Italian research about UFOs; in fact Mussolini given all
 >the documents, during war, to the German experts...


No Photos to debate, and as far as the vaunted V-7, no one who
thinks of a fabric covered ,fixed gear, low aspect raitio
testbed to be captured saucer tech is well, wrong. And as far as
the vaunted German experts-why wasn't the 8th Airforce swept
from the skies?


 >Best wishes
 >
 >Alfredo Lissoni (with Pinotti one of two Italian UFO researchers
 >of Mussolini's files...)

Ok, I don't mean to belittle, but why hasn't this come forth
until now? and while I greatly admire Italian aviation of that
era, and the fact we all aren't going "SEig Heil, Seig Heil, in
der Fhurer's Face!" (With apologies to Spike Jones.) despite all
that tranferred Technolgy.









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   May > May 20

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:13:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 03:14:22 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:31:29 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:43:07 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:15:39 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Previously, Jerry wrote:

 >  I imagine that
 >the Trents thought a free, all-expenses paid trip to New York
 >City sounded pretty tempting. There is not an iota of evidence
 >that their decision had anything to do with the UFO photographs
 >they took. I can't imagine why that trip should come up in any
 >serious discussion of the photos' authenticity.


Hello, Jerry!

The same can be said about how "simple" the Trents SEEM to be. I
can't imagine why that should come up in any serious discussion
of the photos' authenticity, either. But, like the Gulf Breeze
photos, Bruce seems to feel that his observations about the
subjects' apparent inability to fake a photo somehow add to the
validity of the image at hand. I see no connection at all. I
have said this all along; if the people want to fake out Bruce,
then they will carry the act to the final curtain. Why would
they do otherwise? And if they are faking out other people that
Bruce is talking to about the UFO, then his observations about
their intent are not observations, at all; merely third party
opinions.

A hoaxer is not going to act like they know squat. Playing dumb
isn't so hard. And if you think that would be beyond the Trents'
capabilities because they are "country folk", then you've never
had to negotiate a deal with an old country farmer. I've yet to
see a city slicker get the best of 'em.

Besides, as someone asked before: Just what does
Bruce or anyone really know about someone else's
intent?

Analyzing the photo is one thing. Reading someone's mind is a
bit of a stretch....

later,

Roger Evans







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:23:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:03:28 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:59:18 +0200
 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >I guess the weight from a (light weight?) "model saucer" should
 >also bend the phone/power lines a little bit. And, that's not
 >clearly visible on the photos, just above the saucer, is it?

No bending

 >Further, I wonder if it's possible to detect that the
 >trees/bushes shown on the 2 photos bent (slightly?) in the wind
 >(gusts) emenating from the saucer, as reported by the Trents?
 >Are the position of the plants/branches somewhat different in
 >the 2 photos?

Can't see them well enough t know if they were bent at all by
wind

 >Further, do we know anything about the existence of any military
 >and/or civilian airfields (installations) in the McMinnville
 >area - in those days?

None

 >And, I think we shouldn't underestimate the possibilities for
 >the Trents to make a hoax. Even though they were (seemingly)
">simple peasants", they were surely clever enough to do this!

Not likely they would think of such a thing.... not part of
their normal daily routine or activities.   Even if they did
think of it they were too occupied with other activities to do
it.







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:46:44 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:05:10 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:31:29 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:43:07 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

<snip>

 >the strange argument -- that the most innocuous
 >behavior becomes full of sinister meaning when UFO witnesses
 >engage in it -- is yours. People who have all manner of
 >experiences, very few of them having to do with UFOs, go on
 >television and talk about them all the time, without their
 >motives and honesty being subjected to question. I imagine that
 >the Trents thought a free, all-expenses paid trip to New York
 >City sounded pretty tempting. There is not an iota of evidence
 >that their decision had anything to do with the UFO photographs
 >they took. I can't imagine why that trip should come up in any
 >serious discussion of the photos' authenticity.

Jerry:

 >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:31:58 -0700
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:55:59 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 ><snip>

 >>When it comes down to UFO hoaxes, the bottom line in the
 >>majority of cases, in my experience, is money and/or fame.

Royce mentioned fame as part of the bottom line in a majority of
UFO hoaxes.  Maybe their motivation for an all expense paid trip
to New York City was just the trip, or maybe they enjoyed the
idea of getting on the air on a nation program.  Who knows?
They're dead, now, and I doubt that we'll probably ever know.

You may be right that fame never entered their minds.  After
all,  the Trents' two obituaries made no mention at all of what
had brought the World to their door.

Clear skies,

Bob Young









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 01:20:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:13:53 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:07:50 -0700
 >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:40 -0400
 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>>>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:01:15 -0700
 >>>>Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:51:30 -0400
 >>>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >><snip>

 >>>>This is why I can easily see the Trents as authentic. I can't
 >>>>conceive how they could do it and not slip up somehow, let
 >>>>alone the Trents even thinking up such an elaborate Hoax.

 >>>Elaborate? Two pictures taken by a guy of a pie pan on a
 >>>string?

 >>Photo analysis shows it was clearly more complicated than just
 >>hanging a pie pan on a string.

 >><snip>

 >>>>However, the key may just be the Photos taken by
 >>>>some simple farmer and his wife. Period.

 >>>I agree. Whatever we think we can know about their motivations,
 >>>intelligence, etc. The thing rests on the pictures.
 >
 >>A photo a UFO does not make. Probably any photo could be hoaxed
 >>given enough time, knoweldge and money (for materials,
 >>processing, etc).

<snip>

 >I have one Question - if the Trents suspended the "saucer" from
 >the lines, that would have taken a lot of courage for the lines
 >appear to be power, not phone lines, and I think even then,
 >house service was at least 440 volts?


Hi GT:

The power line drop running to anyone's house is almost
invariably 120V AC. Newer homes have 2 hotlines, 180 degrees out
of phase and thus 240 volts apart (center line grounded so
neither line gets further than 120 VAC from ground). 240 VAC is
used for high-power electrical appliances; clothes dryers,
electric range etc. It wasn't all that common back then. I only
wired up for 120/240 8 years ago, in this house built in 1937.
For the first 55 years, it had two thin feed lines providing
single phase 120 VAC service only. With a 30 amp main fuse,
there was no lathe in the garage!

A rural farmhouse might have high tension lines leading to a
transformer on a pole near the house. This can range from 1200 ,
2400VAC or sometimes higher. These are the skinny wires on the
highest part of the service pole.

Nobody in the US has 440 volt house service, although this is
sometimes seen in factories.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                         Ohio UFO report - 3-5-2000

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 12:13:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:19:04 -0400
Subject: Ohio UFO report - 3-5-2000


On Tuesday, May 9, 2000, an E-mail message informing of a May 5
UFO sighting in Hamilton County, Ohio was received.

The message, mutually arranged by one female and two male
witnesses from Norwood, Ohio [whose names will be deleted for
privacy purposes], states the following:

"At 10:04 p.m. a UFO was sighted hovering above the intersection
of Mills Avenue and Carter Avenue in Norwood. We were in a car
driving south on Carter, at about the intersection of Cleveland
Avenue and Carter Avenue. The object was a very large,
multi-tiered object with many different colors of lights on each
level. Blue, yellow, and orange were the primary colors of the
lights all in symmetrical lines covering the entire surface of
the visible side. The saucer was more round than disc shaped
like two bowls on top of each other. It seemed to be located
above the intersection of Williams and Carter Avenues. Only a
few hundred feet above the ground. From our proximity the object
was almost as wide as the street and almost as tall as wide. The
object was stationary for about 4 seconds above the center of
the road. Then it slowly moved to the East out of view. There
were at least 100 lights on the aircraft and at no time did they
seem to pulsate or move."

The witnesses, who added that there was no sound associated with
the object, also told of making an attempt to follow the object,
but said to be unable to locate it. After the sighting, routine
airplanes and helicopters were later visible in the area.

Comment:
The three eyewitnesses included their names and E-mail addresses
on the UFO report. Follow-up E-mail contact was made with each
participant, including one telephone conversation with a
witness. In the view of this researcher, the three witnesses are
trustworthy people and are sincere about this event. They firmly
believe to have observed an unidentified flying object.

Analysis:
A near-proxity/low-level sighting as described is very unusual,
but not unprecedented. The description of such an object is
quite dramatic. During a telephone discussion with one of the
witnesses, he estimated the object hovering above an area near
Stones Bowling Alley and railroad tracks separating Norwood from
Evanston. This is a heavily populated and traveled region near
Interstate 71, justifying [to this researcher] concern that the
misidentification of a blimp flyover may have engendered the
sighting report.

This investigator made the decision to purposefully ask a
leading question to the witnesses by inquiring if the sighting
might possibly be attributed to an advertising blimp.
Categorically, the witnesses said: "no."

In a separate E-mail message, one witness added: "Perhaps in
some cosmic way we were intended to make the objects existence
known. Although there will be scrutiny and other repercussions
for disclosing the story and our personal information, I suppose
if we did not we could be usurping the purpose of the
encounter."

 From the comments regarding 'cosmic way' and 'purpose,' the
objective analyst may conclude that this witness has escalated a
visual observation into something more religious in nature, or
at the very least, has arrived at the conclusion that the event
cannot be addressed in rational terms, and has created a
ideology to compensate for the event.

Investigation:

On Friday morning, May 19, a phone call was placed to the
Cincinnati Reds general offices at 421-4510, and the inquiry
about scheduling for advertising blimps was transferred to
the marketing department.

The female receptionist in the marketing department informed
that they do not schedule blimp fly-overs, that basically they
[blimp companies] make their own arrangements.

When asked if there would be any record of a blimp in the
area on May 5, 2000, the female marketing assistant
informed: "There is no record of it, but there was a blimp
in town because I saw it myself."

This female marketing assistant informed that the blimp
conducted a fly-over for the St. Louis series which began
Friday night. This was a big attraction as Ken Griffey Jr.
and Mark McGwire were both playing. The blimp, she informed,
traveled on from the Reds game to the Kentucky Derby [on
Saturday] and returned to Cincinnati again on Sunday.

Conclusion:
The comments by the Cincinnati Reds marketing assistant
seriously damages the prospect of the object reported by the
three witnesses to be a UFO near Cincinnati, Ohio on May 5.
Despite rejection of this explanation by the three
participants, an honest visual misidentification of this
blimp -which was operational in the very area- remains a
rational explanation to account for the report.

Enclosed below is a newspaper article which also addresses the
much celebrated activities in Cincinnati on Friday night, May 5,
2000.

The information that a blimp had, indeed, been in the area is to
be considered key detail in consideration of a suspected UFO
sighting from Friday night, May 5, 2000. Further, upon proximity
of the sighting [near Interstate 71 and Downtown Cincinnati] and
time of event, is is most likely that this explanation soundly
addresses the suspected UFO sighting as reported by the three
witnesses as first claimed on Tuesday, May 9, 2000.

Filed,
Friday, May 19, 2000
Kenny Young

Attached:
relevant Newspaper article from Cincinnati Enquirer, May 5,
2000
=============
Headline: "Big events could crowd city streets"
Source: The Cincinnati Enquirer
Date: Friday, May 05, 2000

URL source verification:
http://enquirer.com/editions/2000/05/05/loc_big_events_could.html

By Marie McCain
The Cincinnati Enquirer

Ken Griffey Jr., Mark McGwire and the Tyler Davidson Fountain.
No, it's not the beginning of a bad joke, but it could be the
beginning of a very bad weekend for motorists.

Those three will combine to draw tens of thousands to downtown
Cincinnati over the next three days, starting at 7:05 tonight
when Mr. McGwire and his division-leading St. Louis Cardinals
come to Cinergy Field.

"It's hard to say how many people could come downtown," said
City Traffic Engineer Steve Bailey. "But we are anticipating a
lot."

At about the same time, street closures begin in preparation for
the two-day Fountain Restoration Celebration. From 7 tonight
until 5 a.m. Monday, Fifth Street will shut down between Vine
and Sycamore streets; Walnut and Main streets will close between
Fourth and Sixth streets.

On Saturday, from 3 p.m. until midnight, Vine between Fourth and
Sixth will close, as will Fifth between Race and Vine.

Metro bus service will be rerouted and meter parking will be
prohibited on these streets at those times, officials said,
adding that parking garages on those streets will be accessible.

Despite the expected kinetics of two of baseball's heaviest
hitters, tickets for this weekend's series are still available,
Reds officials said.

Conservative estimates predict more than 50,000 people will
flood downtown each day - well beyond that on Saturday.

Ceremonies for Saturday's fountain dedication begin at 4 p.m.
The unveiling is scheduled for 8:30 p.m.

Activities include fireworks, bands, dancers, face paintings and
theatrical performances. The celebration will end 6 p.m. Sunday.

Drivers will have to deal with the latest phase of the Fort
Washington Way construction project, which centers on Third
Street.

ARTIMIS, the Greater Cincinnati's traffic monitoring agency;
Metro and the Transit Authority of Northern Kentucky are urging
motorists to take public transportation downtown this weekend or
either park in a garage and walk to the featured events.

They advise motorists who must drive to follow these routes into
downtown this weekend:

- From Interstate 75 south, take the Seventh Street exit.

- From Interstate 471 north, take the exit for Sixth Street.

- From Columbia Parkway, exit at Sixth or Lytle and follow
to Fourth.

- From Interstate 71 south, exit at Gilbert Avenue and head
   to Eighth Street.

- From I-75 north, take the new Fifth Street exit.

End of article
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 07:01:57 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:25:42 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:46:37 -0700
 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:19 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:31:58 -0700
 >>>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:55:59 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >><snip>

 >>>When it comes down to UFO hoaxes, the bottom line in the
 >>>majority of cases, in my experience, is money and/or fame.

 >>Royce, List:

 >>How about an additional motivation of just playing a trick on
 >>your friends, or perhaps trying to prove that you have seen
 >>saucers? Mrs. Trent was quoted as saying that they had seen
 >>some before but people wouldn't believe them.

 >>>There is nothing that suggests the Trents were in it for the
 >>>money or the fame. The sighting turned their world upside down
 >>>and inside out.

<snip>

 >Your comment, "you might be taken in a lot quicker than you
 >think," compels me to believe that you think you know who I am
 >and what I think. I am by far one of the more skeptical
 >UFOlogists out here. I question everyone and everything when it
 >comes to UFOs. I especially question people who continue to
 >debunk what is, in my opinion, one of the best UFO cases out
 >there with nothing to back up that it is a hoax.

 >I'm currently in law enforcement and conduct criminal
 >investigations.

<snip>

 >Again, prove your case or file it away. Present me with concrete
 >_facts_ and not some flimsy theory that has no basis for
 >support. Put up and I'll gladly shut up. I'm more than willing
 >to look at any evidence in this case just as are the other
 >people looking at it. Thanks.


Royce, I too have been in law enforcement, but only on an AP
basis (Auxiliary Police). This, in the NYC 47th Pct. and as an
armned, academy-trained NYSP/AP. I am a grunt, not an
investigator and must admit to purely wannabee status. However,
I am quite familiar with cops, investigations, et al, including
the mind set.

Having said that, I am very curious as to your professional
opine regarding the issue of the value of witness testimony in
UFO sighting and abduction cases. In such, there is often _only_
the word of the witness. Often there is no evidence of the
event, not even a photograph to malign. Cripes, with or without
the photo, with or without any evidence other than witness
testomony, there are no strings to find, no hub caps. Just a
nutcase on the loose. Don't give that one a cap permit. Probally
burn himself.

I ask this question because in the process of writing of my own
experiences, I have interviewed large numbers of police
officers. The results of these interviews shocked even me, not
having ever before broached the subject with cops in 30 years. I
was during those 30 years, still in the closet.

How about witness testimony in your experience and in general?

Jim Mortellaro







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:43:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:03:49 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:13:47 -0500
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:31:29 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:43:07 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:15:39 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Roger,

 >The same can be said about how "simple" the Trents SEEM to be. I
 >can't imagine why that should come up in any serious discussion
 >of the photos' authenticity, either. But, like the Gulf Breeze
 >photos, Bruce seems to feel that his observations about the
 >subjects' apparent inability to fake a photo somehow add to the
 >validity of the image at hand. I see no connection at all. I
 >have said this all along; if the people want to fake out Bruce,
 >then they will carry the act to the final curtain. Why would
 >they do otherwise? And if they are faking out other people that
 >Bruce is talking to about the UFO, then his observations about
 >their intent are not observations, at all; merely third party
 >opinions.

The problem with theories like this one is that they are utterly
unfalsifiable. It makes a couple, whom everybody (not just Bruce
Maccabee, by the way) who ever investigated their story or
talked with neighbors and acquaintances about them concluded
were simple, unsophisticated folk, fiendishly, diabolically
clever, living their whole lives for one purpose: to fool others
in the interest of perpetrating a hoax -- a hoax they never
really promoted and from which they never profited. And whose
subject, moreover, they downplayed, rejecting the idea that
they'd photographed a spacecraft for the considerably more
boring notion that they had snapped an experimental aircraft.

Everything about this case, including the Trents's personalities
and behavioral history (though this is, in the larger context,
just a small and, next to the technical analyses, relatively
insignificant part of the story), is consistent with the
hypothesis that they photographed a UFO and inconsistent with
its opposite.

Jerry Clark











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                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:06:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:05:38 +0000
 >From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >Subject: Non-UFO Question
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Dear All,

 >This is a non-UFO question. Does anyone know how I might find
 >out who was the head of Disney in the early to mid l980's ? If
 >you do know, could you contact me direct at:

 >pmquest@dial.pipex.com


Can anyone tell me how I can get other people to do all my
research for me without paying them anything?

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk









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                 Re: Space Debris Rains Down On South Africa

From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:32:49 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:17:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Space Debris Rains Down On South Africa


Space debris rains down on South Africa

One of the pieces of space junk that landed in South Africa
May 3, 2000
Web posted at: 3:36 PM EDT (1936 GMT)

CAPE TOWN, South Africa (Reuters) -- Three pieces of a large
U.S. rocket have crashed out of orbit onto South African soil in
recent days, prompting a flurry of speculation that more could
be on the way.

The three sections identified as being from the motor of a Delta
2 satellite launch rocket fell on farmland in a line stretching
200 kilometers (125 miles) east from Cape Town.

"They are definitely from a Delta II rocket," Cees Rijswijk at
Cape Town's observatory told Reuters. "There could be more on
the way, but the chances of anyone getting hit by one are rather
less than of being run over by a bus."

"There are more than 8,000 pieces of debris in orbit above us,
all of them being closely monitored. As most of the earth is
covered with water, the chances are that most will not hit land
when they fall," he added.

Rijswijk said he could not remember other items of space debris
falling on South Africa, but could not rule out that it might
have happened in some remote spots of the country.

Copyright 2000 Reuters. All rights reserved.


Steven L. Wilson, Sr







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                     O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes

From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:49:31 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:24:05 -0400
Subject: O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes


O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes

.c The Associated Press - aol://4344:30.L100KdGf.336717.643320176
05/20: O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes


CHICAGO (AP) - False radar images have been popping up on the
screens of O'Hare International Airport's air traffic
controllers, forcing pilots to take sudden turns unnecessarily,
the Chicago Sun-Times reported in its Sunday editions.

At least a dozen "ghost planes" have been reported during the
last few weeks, the newspaper said, citing documents from the
Terminal Radar Approach Control center in Elgin, Ill., and
interviews with controllers.

Controllers said that at least a few times, they have ordered
pilots to take sudden turns to avoid what appeared to be planes
on their radar, potentially putting passengers at risk.

"The ghosting is a complete terror for the air traffic
controllers," said Charles Bunting, president of the Elgin local
of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association.

False radar images can appear when a crane or construction tower
is put up, said Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Tony
Molinaro. Planes from nearby airports also have appeared much
closer to O'Hare than they actually were in recent weeks,
controllers said.

Molinaro said there have been 13 ghost images in the last five
weeks, rather than the eight or nine the FAA would usually
expect in that time period, "meaning we still need to look into
them."

But Mike Egan, vice president of the controllers union at Elgin,
accused the FAA of playing down the problem. "Maybe 130, but not
13," Egan said Friday. "We had a couple of them today, as a
matter of fact. ... They know there's a problem."

O'Hare controllers have also recently complained about the FAA's
plans to speed air traffic at O'Hare by stacking arriving planes
vertically around O'Hare's air space rather than having them
line up single-file.

Bunting said the radar situation raises questions about the
safety of the procedure.

AP-NY-05-20-00 1602EDT

Copyright 2000 The Associated Press.







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:04:50 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:37:51 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 01:20:51 -0700
 >From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 00:07:50 -0700
 >>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:47:40 -0400
 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
 >>>>>Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 21:01:15 -0700
 >>>>>Fwd Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 01:51:30 -0400
 >>>>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>><snip>

 >>>>>This is why I can easily see the Trents as authentic. I can't
 >>>>>conceive how they could do it and not slip up somehow, let
 >>>>>alone the Trents even thinking up such an elaborate Hoax.

 >Snip

 >>>A photo a UFO does not make. Probably any photo could be hoaxed
 >>>given enough time, knoweldge and money (for materials,
 >>>processing, etc).

 ><snip>

 >>I have one Question - if the Trents suspended the "saucer" from
 >>the lines, that would have taken a lot of courage for the lines
 >>appear to be power, not phone lines, and I think even then,
 >>house service was at least 440 volts?

 >The power line drop running to anyone's house is almost
 >invariably 120V AC. Newer homes have 2 hotlines, 180 degrees out
 >of phase and thus 240 volts apart (center line grounded so
 >neither line gets further than 120 VAC from ground). 240 VAC is
 >used for high-power electrical appliances; clothes dryers,
 >electric range etc. It wasn't all that common back then. I only
 >wired up for 120/240 8 years ago, in this house built in 1937.
 >For the first 55 years, it had two thin feed lines providing
 >single phase 120 VAC service only. With a 30 amp main fuse,
 >there was no lathe in the garage!

 >A rural farmhouse might have high tension lines leading to a
 >transformer on a pole near the house. This can range from 1200,
 >2400VAC or sometimes higher. These are the skinny wires on the
 >highest part of the service pole.

 >Nobody in the US has 440 volt house service, although this is
 >sometimes seen in factories.


Dear Larry, GT, EBK and Listers,

Indeed, Larry is quite correct. I am an electronics engineer and
I learned all that in esquela. In fact, 440 VAC is in wide use
in factories, and your opinions regarding 120 and 240 VAC is
right on the money. 240 VAC in the fifties or even sixties, in
the average home, was quite uncommon.

I would like to point out, however, that the Canal Street
Gripple Plant in Manhattan, is the only place on the planet
which utilizes what we like to call, VinPower. We are able to
generate our own steam, electrical energy at about 186 VDC and
some nuclear waste as well, as a result of our processing
methods. The government would like very much to shut us down,
however the Aliens will not allow it, as part of the
Alien/Gripple/USGovernment treaty of 1948, which stipulates,
"The United States Government shall not infringe the right of
Gripple to be used in regenerating power in order to save the
factory from the clutches of Con Edison!"

All our people also have Federal Carry Permits as well. The
Government agreed to this after an inebriated Lizard attempted
to mount a Government official. The official was saved by the
brave J. Jaime Gesundt, who was carrying illegally. Of course,
the president has always been grateful to Gesundt.

The rest of the story is that it was under the influence of
Gripple, when Slick Willie succumbed to it's seduction and got
him in that trouble with what's her name, Moonica, whose name
really is "Moonica" as she is from there. (She's really a
lizard).

And now you know the "Rest ... of ... the ... story!"

As for them farmers, may they two rest in peace, the discussion
I have witnessed in the past few days on this thread has
contributed about as much as the above dissertation on Gripple
and power generation. But then, I am not surprised. My simple
request for a straight answer regarding who or what started the
freakin car was about as rich in answers. And so, when I
complete my masterpiece, I shall reveal (and I might add,
finally), the _truth_ about cars shutting down and restarting
during UFO encounters of the numerical kind. Fortunately, it
shall be my truth, which all I am qualified to repeat.

Of course, know one will believe me. But that's OK. After all,
I am not a researcher. Just a simple farmer... uh, sorry,
perceived abductee. What the hell do I know anyway?

Jim Mortellaro

Dr. J. Jaime Gesundt







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                    Eight Objects Orbiting Distant Stars

From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:37:51 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:25:23 -0400
Subject: Eight Objects Orbiting Distant Stars


Astronomers Find Evidence Of Eight Objects Orbiting Distant Stars


May 9, 2000
Web posted at: 11:18 AM EDT (1518 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- European astronomers say they have found
evidence of eight planet-like objects orbiting distant stars,
bringing to 43 the number of extra-solar system planets that
have been found.

An astronomy team from the Geneva Observatory reported finding
six planet-sized objects and two more massive objects orbiting
stars up to 140 light years away from Earth.

The planets range in size from a mass slightly less than Saturn,
to about 15 times more massive than Jupiter.

Jupiter is about 317 times more massive than the Earth and
Saturn is about 95 times more massive.

Two of the new extra solar system objects are large enough to be
classified as brown dwarfs. Brown dwarfs are thought to be
"failed stars," bodies that are bigger than planets but without
the mass needed to start burning like a star.

Extra solar system planets are discovered by measuring the
motion of the host stars. The gravitational tug of a companion
object causes a central star to wobble slightly. By measuring
this motion, astronomers can determine the mass of a planet-like
body and its distance from the central star.

A light year is the distance light travels in a year in space,
about 6 trillion miles ( 10 trillion kilometers).

The first extra solar system planet, or exoplanet, was found in
1995, and astronomers at centers in Europe and in the United
States have been steadily adding new discoveries ever since.

Copyright 2000 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.










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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:10:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:33:59 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:43:31 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:03:49 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:13:47 -0500
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Previously, I wrote:

 >>The same can be said about how "simple" the Trents SEEM to be. I
 >>can't imagine why that should come up in any serious discussion
 >>of the photos' authenticity, either. But, like the Gulf Breeze
 >>photos, Bruce seems to feel that his observations about the
 >>subjects' apparent inability to fake a photo somehow add to the
 >>validity of the image at hand. I see no connection at all. I
 >>have said this all along; if the people want to fake out Bruce,
 >>then they will carry the act to the final curtain. Why would
 >>they do otherwise? And if they are faking out other people that
 >>Bruce is talking to about the UFO, then his observations about
 >>their intent are not observations, at all; merely third party
 >>opinions.

Jerry responded:

 >The problem with theories like this one is that they are utterly
 >unfalsifiable. It makes a couple, whom everybody (not just Bruce
 >Maccabee, by the way) who ever investigated their story or
 >talked with neighbors and acquaintances about them concluded
 >were simple, unsophisticated folk, fiendishly, diabolically
 >clever, living their whole lives for one purpose: to fool others
 >in the interest of perpetrating a hoax -- a hoax they never
 >really promoted and from which they never profited. And whose
 >subject, moreover, they downplayed, rejecting the idea that
 >they'd photographed a spacecraft for the considerably more
 >boring notion that they had snapped an experimental aircraft.

Hello, Jerry...

First, I am not promoting the theory that the Trents lied or
hoaxed the photos in question. What I am saying is that Bruce is
a good technical investigator, but not a psychologist or FBI
trained "profiler". For him to make general observations about
the "intent" of the Trents as a form of support for his
technical analysis out of place.

Also, as our debate on the Gulf Breeze photos revealed, Bruce
has made his determinations based on what he thinks the subjects
are NOT capable of rather than what they MIGHT be capable of but
keep to themselves. There is nothing wrong with this approach as
long as any investigator admits the possibility of fraud;
something that Bruce feels doesn't exist with a certainty that
can't be supported by any provable fact.

And finally, like the Gulf Breeze photos, there is a sense that
Bruce feels the subject is "too dumb" to promote or perform a
hoax because of the unnecessarily high sophistication of
technique Bruce feels is required to create the photo in
question. I saw nothing in the Gulf Breeze photos that could not
be created with off the shelf Polaroid equipment and applied
common sense. Likewise, I see no reason why the disk in the
Trent photos should be more than a hubcap or the such lobbed in
the air for the shot.

Of course, without even knowing the Trents, I'll concede that it
_could_ be real. Likewise, without knowing the Trents, my common
sense tells me that any idiot could throw a hubcap or milk can
lid in the air and get the same results. Why raise the level of
difficulty artificially? As I've said before, it doesn't have to
be complicated to look believable. But it does have to appear
complicated if you want the subject to appear dim witted by
comparison.

I see no need for this.

Let the imagery stand or fall on its own merits without making
assumptions about the abilities or intentions of the subjects.
After all, if the imagery can't be proved one way or the other
with hands-on technical analysis, then anecdotal stories about
the subjects' intentions prove even less.

Later,

Roger Evans









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:25:12 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:35:41 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:46:37 -0700
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 03:08:01 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

<snip>

 >So instead of throwing around tiresome model theories and
 >conjecture about pie pans and strings or dangling street lights,

Royce:

I didn't mention anything about dangling street lights.

<snip>

 >Again, prove your case or file it away. Present me with concrete
 >_facts_ and not some flimsy theory that has no basis for
 >support. Put up and I'll gladly shut up. I'm more than willing
 >to look at any evidence in this case just as are the other
 >people looking at it. Thanks.

Please see my May 17 post regarding my analysis of the two May
11, 1950, Trent pictures:

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:11:41 -0400 (EDT)
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:28:11 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos

Clear skies,

Bob Young









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                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 04:45:58 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:37:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Can anyone tell me how I can get other people to do all my
 >>research for me without paying them anything?


And so it was ufology died..... such a price.

Roy..








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                       Re: Ohio UFO report - 5-5-2000

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:47:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:40:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Ohio UFO report - 5-5-2000


 >Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 12:13:34 -0400
 >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >Subject: Ohio UFO report - 3-5-2000
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >On Tuesday, May 9, 2000, an E-mail message informing of a May 5
 >UFO sighting in Hamilton County, Ohio was received.

 >The message, mutually arranged by one female and two male
 >witnesses from Norwood, Ohio [whose names will be deleted for
 >privacy purposes], states the following:

 >"At 10:04 p.m. a UFO was sighted hovering above the intersection
 >of Mills Avenue and Carter Avenue in Norwood. We were in a car
 >driving south on Carter, at about the intersection of Cleveland
 >Avenue and Carter Avenue. The object was a very large,
 >multi-tiered object with many different colors of lights on each
 >level. Blue, yellow, and orange were the primary colors of the
 >lights all in symmetrical lines covering the entire surface of
 >the visible side. The saucer was more round than disc shaped
 >like two bowls on top of each other. It seemed to be located
 >above the intersection of Williams and Carter Avenues. Only a
 >few hundred feet above the ground. From our proximity the object
 >was almost as wide as the street and almost as tall as wide. The
 >>>ere at least 100 lights on the aircraft and at no time did they
 >seem to pulsate or move."

You have pointed out that there could have been a blimp in the
area Internally lighted advertising blimps have caused a number
of UFO sightings and videos since the early 1990.

Check:

www.lightships.com

for examples of such blimps. They can look very weird at night!








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                   Re: O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes

From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 04:51:54 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:54:53 -0400
Subject: Re: O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes


 >>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:49:31 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
 >>Subject: O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >
 >>O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes

 >>.c The Associated Press - aol://4344:30.L100KdGf.336717.643320176
 >>05/20: O'Hare Controllers See Ghost Planes


Hi All,

Very interesting subject this, I have had two ghost cases given
two me whilst carrying out research on some local UFO reports.
One was of a German plane, the other being a Spitfire. In both
cases pilots were seen at the controls of the planes?

If any wants the reports please e-mail me.

Regards,

Roy..

Keep Smiling..







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:01:23 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 07:57:08 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:43:31 -0500
 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:13:47 -0500
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:31:29 -0500
 >>>Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:43:07 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>>>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:15:39 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>>Subject: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Roger,

 >>The same can be said about how "simple" the Trents SEEM to be. I
 >>can't imagine why that should come up in any serious discussion
 >>of the photos' authenticity, either. But, like the Gulf Breeze
 >>photos, Bruce seems to feel that his observations about the
 >>subjects' apparent inability to fake a photo somehow add to the
 >>validity of the image at hand. I see no connection at all. I
 >>have said this all along; if the people want to fake out Bruce,
 >>then they will carry the act to the final curtain. Why would
 >>they do otherwise? And if they are faking out other people that
 >>Bruce is talking to about the UFO, then his observations about
 >>their intent are not observations, at all; merely third party
 >>opinions.

 >The problem with theories like this one is that they are utterly
 >unfalsifiable. It makes a couple, whom everybody (not just Bruce
 >Maccabee, by the way) who ever investigated their story or
 >talked with neighbors and acquaintances about them concluded
 >were simple, unsophisticated folk, fiendishly, diabolically
 >clever, living their whole lives for one purpose: to fool others
 >in the interest of perpetrating a hoax -- a hoax they never
 >really promoted and from which they never profited. And whose
 >subject, moreover, they downplayed, rejecting the idea that
 >they'd photographed a spacecraft for the considerably more
 >boring notion that they had snapped an experimental aircraft.

 >Everything about this case, including the Trents's personalities
 >and behavioral history (though this is, in the larger context,
 >just a small and, next to the technical analyses, relatively
 >insignificant part of the story), is consistent with the
 >hypothesis that they photographed a UFO and inconsistent with
 >its opposite.

 >Jerry Clark

Dear Jerry, EBK, Listers and researchers...

At last, you've saved us from a moment of insanity. Make that
numerous moments by the number of posts on this thread. I admire
your common sense. But you are among the "John the Baptists" in
this bizziness. A voice crying in the wilderness.

See, in UFO research, and in my opinion, the voice of reasearch
is in direct conflict with the voice of the witness. Even with
nice, neat little pictures an' stuff. Wow, what a business. How
many times must an abductee shout? The answer is blowin' in the
windbags.

Appreciatively,

Jim Mortellaro

PS: Your books are still too freakin' heavy!








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 03:51:23 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:00:08 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:59:18 +0200
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:52:07 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >I guess the weight from a (light weight?) "model saucer" should
 >also bend the phone/power lines a little bit. And, that's not
 >clearly visible on the photos, just above the saucer, is it?

Although I am currently a proponent of the Trent photos, I don't
think the absence of a bend in the power lines directly above a
"model saucer" is necessarily in favor of the authenticity of
the photos. Most people don't appreciate just how small such a
model would have had to be. At Trent's distance from the power
lines, a model would have been only about 4 inches or 10 cm
across.

I guess the Trents ate very small pies or used miniscule garbage
cans. 8-)

 >Further, I wonder if it's possible to detect that the
 >trees/bushes shown on the 2 photos bent (slightly?) in the wind
 >(gusts) emenating from the saucer, as reported by the Trents?
 >Are the position of the plants/branches somewhat different in
 >the 2 photos?

Very difficult to tell.

 >Further, do we know anything about the existence of any military
 >and/or civilian airfields (installations) in the McMinnville
 >area - in those days?

Civilian -- sure -- as close as McMinnville, or bigger ones at
nearby Portland and Salem.

Military, particularly test military facilities, no, unless you
want to count Boeing Field in Seattle 200 miles away. (Maybe
there was one closer, but I don't know of any.)

A secret, experimental military craft would be tested
exclusively over some isolated test range like Edwards AFB, not
out in the open. I also find it difficult to believe that a
50-year old experimental project like this of some conventional
aircraft could disappear without leaving a trace.

Unless somebody can come up with a craft, civilian or military,
that has the _same_ profile as the object in the Trent photos,
then such speculation is pointless.

In addition, such an experimental craft would also have to be
capable of hovering without making any noise. That's an
interesting proposition. If the craft was real, then it was
clearly unconventional.

 >And, I think we shouldn't underestimate the possibilities for
 >the Trents to make a hoax. Even though they were (seemingly)
 >"simple peasants", they were surely clever enough to do this

No, not by a long shot. They would have had to be
extraordinarily lucky.

Careful analysis over three decades has revealed a number of
subtle details in these photos that you just can't reproduce in
any straightforward hoax hypothesis. And that's a point that
skepti-bunkers seem to deliberately ignore.

Instead we get treated to such nonsense as a nonexistent "knot"
on the power line where Trent supposedly tied his model, or Mrs.
Trent being a "repeater." We're supposed to respond to such
"arguments" as if they were "showstoppers."

The counter-arguments to the Trent photos are generally feeble
and ignore the myriad of details within the photos that strongly
suggest authenticity.

David Rudiak









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                            Religious Experiences

From: Joaquim Fernandes <jfernan@esoterica.pt>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:39:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:22:01 -0400
Subject: Religious Experiences


Dear List Members,

I am comparing some physical effects observed during the Fatima
apparitions 1917, considering the vast amount of original
documents we got here from the sanctuary files.

I am very curious to know if anyone have some data of physical
and physiological effects - buzzing or humming sounds,
temperature changes or images/words inside the head - registered
during and after the "contact" with a "vision" or "entity" of
any kind of religious culture outside the catholic background,
i.e. the 'Marianism' (from the Virgin Mary devotion).

We are promoting a scientific preview before design an
International Conference to discuss all the objective aspects
and dimensions of the so-called "marian apparitions".

Thank you for your co-operation.

Joaquim Fernandes
University Fernando Pessoa
Porto
Portugal








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                   'The UFO-FBI Connection' - #6 On Amazon

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:04:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:30:18 -0400
Subject: 'The UFO-FBI Connection' - #6 On Amazon


Make it #1.

'The UFO-FBI Connection'

Although only "out" for a couple of weeks is already #6 on the
amazon ufo bestseller list

Select "books" and search for UFO. Then scroll down a little and
select Sort By Bestselling.








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               Foreign UFO Theorists Supported - US Repressed

From: Ignatius Graffeo <Ufoseek@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:45:05 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:40:26 -0400
Subject: Foreign UFO Theorists Supported - US Repressed


Source: The Boston Globe

http://www.boston.com:80/dailyglobe2/142/focus/UFO_theorists_gain_support_abroad
_but_repression_at_home+.shtml

5/21/2000

UFO theorists gain support abroad, but repression at home

Study by French officials, routine unexplained sightings, US
military safety aspects combine to boost believers

By Leslie Kean, 5/21/2000

Last month's release of the first detailed satellite images of
Area 51, the top-secret US Air Force test site in Nevada,
prompted a Web site meltdown as people from across the nation
logged on in search of clues about unidentified flying objects.

"The interest has been really phenomenal," said David Mountain,
marketing director for Aerial Images Inc., which posted the
high-resolution photographs of Area 51 on the Internet.

But those hoping to see signs that captured UFOs are stored at
the site (as some aficionados have suggested) were destined to
be disappointed. Most of Area 51's operations occur underground,
making photos meaningless.

Anyone looking for fresh information on UFOs would have better
luck trying a new, but less publicized, source: a study by the
French military, just translated into an approved English
edition.

High-level officials - including retired generals from the
French Institute of Higher Studies for National Defense, a
government-financed strategic planning agency - recently took a
giant step in openly challenging skepticism about UFOs.

In a report based on a three-year study, they concluded that
"numerous manifestations observed by reliable witnesses could be
the work of craft of extraterrestrial origin" and that, in fact,
the best explanation is "the extraterrestrial hypothesis."
Although not categorically proven, "strong presumptions exist in
its favor and if it is correct, it is loaded with significant
consequences."

The French group reached that conclusion after examining nearly
500 international aeronautical sightings and radar/

visual cases, and previously undisclosed pilots' reports. They
drew on data from official sources, government authorities, and
the air forces of other countries. The findings are contained in
a 90-page report titled "UFOs and Defense: What Should We
Prepare For?"

"The number of sightings, which are completely unexplained
despite the abundance and quality of data from them, is growing
throughout the world," the team declared.

The authors note that about 5 percent of sightings on which
there is solid documentation cannot be easily attributed to
earthly sources, such as secret military exercises. This 5
percent seem "to be completely unknown flying machines with
exceptional performances that are guided by a natural or
artificial intelligence," they say. Science has developed
plausible models for travel from another solar system and for
technology that could be used to propel the vehicles, the report
points out.

It assures readers that UFOs have demonstrated no hostile acts,
"although intimidation maneuvers have been confirmed."

Given the widespread skepticism about UFOs, many will quickly
dismiss the generals' "extraterrestrial hypothesis." But it is
less easy to do so once the authors' credentials are considered.
The study's originators are four-star General Bernard Norlain,
former commander of the French Tactical Air Force and military
counselor to the prime minister; General Denis Letty, an air
force fighter pilot; and Andre Lebeau, former head of the
National Center for Space Studies, the French equivalent of
NASA.

They formed a 12-member "Committee for In-depth Studies,"
abbreviated as COMETA, which authored the report. Other
contributors included a three-star admiral, the national chief
of police, and the head of a government agency studying the
subject, as well as scientists and weapons engineers.

Not only does the group stand by its findings, it is urging
international action. The writers recommend that France
establish "sectorial cooperation agreements with interested
European and foreign countries" on the matter of UFOs. They
suggest that the European Union undertake diplomatic action with
the United States "exerting useful pressure to clarify this
crucial issue which must fall within the scope of political and
strategic alliances."

Why might the United States be interested - albeit, privately -
in a subject often met with ridicule, or considered the domain
of the irrational?

For one thing, declassified US government documents show that
unexplained objects with extraordinary technical capabilities
pose challenges to military activity around the globe. For
example, US fighter jets have attempted to pursue UFOs,
according to North American Aerospace Defense Command logs and
Air Force documents. Iranian and Peruvian air force planes
attempted to shoot down unidentified craft in 1976 and 1980.
Belgium F-16s armed with missiles pursued a UFO in 1990.

Further, the French report says that there have been "visits
above secret installations and missile bases" and "military
aircraft shadowed" in the United States.

Edgar Mitchell, the Apollo 14 astronaut who was the sixth man to
walk on the moon, is one of many supporters of international
cooperation on UFOs. Of the French report, he says, "It's
significant that individuals of some standing in the government,
military, and intelligence community in France came forth with
this."

Mitchell, who holds a doctorate from MIT in aeronautics and
astronautics, is convinced "at a confidence level above 90
percent, that there is reality to all of this." He says, "People
have been digging through the files and investigating for years
now. The files are quite convincing. The only thing that's
lacking is the official stamp."

Mitchell joins five-star Admiral Lord Hill-Norton, the former
head of the British Ministry of Defense, in calling for
congressional fact-finding hearings into the UFO question.

Although Congress seems disinclined to pursue the matter, the
public's interest in UFOs is undiminished. A ballot initiative
underway in Missouri, certified by the secretary of state in
March, urges Congress to convene hearings. The initiative states
that "the Federal Government's handling of the UFO issue has
contributed to the public cynicism toward, and general mistrust
of, government."

US Naval Reserve Commander Willard H. Miller has long been
communicating this same concern to high level federal officials.
With over 30 years in Navy and joint interagency operations with
the Defense Department, Miller has participated in a series of
previously undisclosed briefings for Pentagon brass about
military policy regarding UFOs.

Like many, Miller says he worries that the military's lack of
preparation for encounters with unexplained craft could provoke
dangerous confrontation when, and if, such an encounter occurs;
"precipitous military decisions," he warns, "may lead to
unnecessary confusion, misapplication of forces, or possible
catastrophic consequences."

And he says he is not alone in his concerns. "There are those in
high places in the government who share a growing interest in
this subject," Miller reports.

If the US military is concerned about UFOs, it is not saying so
publicly. Indeed, the French report chastises the United States
for what it calls an "impressive repressive arsenal" on the
subject, including a policy of disinformation and military
regulations prohibiting public disclosure of UFO sightings.

Air Force Regulation 200-2, "Unidentified Flying Objects
Reporting," for example, prohibits the release to the public and
the media of any data about "those objects which are not
explainable." An even more restrictive procedure is outlined in
the Joint Army Navy Air Force Publication 146, which threatens
to prosecute anyone under its jurisdiction - including pilots,
civilian agencies, merchant marine captains, and even some
fishing vessels - for disclosing reports of sightings relevant
to US security.

Although researchers have been able to obtain some information
through the Freedom of Information Act, many UFO documents
remain classified.

In earlier decades, issues that remain pertinent today were
openly discussed. In 1960, for example, US Representative
Leonard G. Wolf of Iowa entered an "urgent warning" from R.E.
Hillenkoetter, a former CIA director and Navy vice admiral, into
the Congressional Record that "certain dangers are linked with
unidentified flying objects." Wolf cited General L.M. Chassin,
NATO coordinator of Allied Air Service, warning that "If we
persist in refusing to recognize the existence of the UFOs, we
will end up, one fine day, by mistaking them for the guided
missiles of an enemy - and the worst will be upon us."

These concerns were taken seriously enough to be incorporated
into the 1971 US-Soviet "Agreement on Measures to Reduce the
Outbreak of Nuclear War."

The French report may open the door for nations to be more
forthcoming once again. Chile, for example, is openly addressing
its own concerns about air safety and UFOs. The now retired
chief of the Chilean Air Force has formed a committee with civil
aviation specialists to study recent near-collisions of UFOs and
civilian airliners.

As the international conversation about UFOs unfolds, sightings
continue, as they have for decades. Perhaps the most notable
recent USsighting took place in March 1997. Hundreds of people
across Arizona reported seeing huge triangular objects, hovering
silently in the night sky - a sighting that, as the state's US
Senator John McCain noted recently, has "never been fully
explained."

As recently as Jan. 5, four policemen at different locations in
St. Claire County, Illinois, witnessed a huge, brightly lighted,
triangular craft flying and hovering at 1,000 feet. One officer
reported witnessing extreme rapid motion by the craft that
cannot be explained in conventional terms. Nearby Scott Air
Force base and the Federal Aviation Administration purport to
know nothing.

The Defense Department maintains it can find no information
acknowledging the existence of the triangular objects. In
response to a suit by curious Arizonans, it provided details of
its search to US District Court Judge Stephen M. McNamee of
Phoenix. On March 30, McNamee concluded that "a reasonable
search was conducted" even though no information was obtained,
and he dismissed the case.

There is one government agency in the country that has taken
steps to prepare for a UFO encounter. The Fire Officer's Guide
to Disaster Control, second edition - used by the Federal
Emergency Management Agency and taught at the seven universities
offering degrees in fire science - warns of "UFO hazards," such
as electrical fields that cause blackouts, force fields, and
physiological effects.

"Do not stand under a UFO that is hovering at low altitudes,"
the book warns. "Do not touch or attempt to touch a UFO that has
landed."

The text leaves little room for skepticism. John E. Mack,
professor of psychiatry at Harvard University and a Pulitzer
Prize-winning author, stopped being skeptical a long time ago.

"No culture from the beginning of time, no culture from anywhere
on the planet, has ever voided the idea of all other intelligent
life other than ourselves," he told a UFO conference at the New
York Hall of Science two weeks ago. "That's arrogance."

Leslie Kean is a freelance journalist in the San Francisco Bay
area.

This story ran on page E3 of the Boston Globe on 5/21/2000. �
Copyright 2000 Globe Newspaper Company.

Posted by
http://www.ufoseek.org








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   May > May 21

                       Re: Ohio UFO report - 5-5-2000

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 11:00:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 14:07:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Ohio UFO report - 5-5-2000


 >Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:47:50 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: Ohio UFO report - 5-5-2000
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 12:13:34 -0400
 >>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
 >>Subject: Ohio UFO report - 3-5-2000
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>On Tuesday, May 9, 2000, an E-mail message informing of a May 5
 >>UFO sighting in Hamilton County, Ohio was received.

<snip>

 >You have pointed out that there could have been a blimp in the
 >area Internally lighted advertising blimps have caused a number
 >of UFO sightings and videos since the early 1990.

 >Check:

 >www.lightships.com

 >for examples of such blimps. They can look very weird at night!

I have seen 2 or 3 of them in recent months. One seen at midnite
was spectacular, and I expected to hear UFO reports since
thousands must have seen it.

Apparently, everyone shrugged it off, and rightly so. I have to
wonder what would have happened if the same blimp were to test
its lights while crossing over some place out in the sticks, in
transit between engagements. It certainly caught my attention.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:54:57 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:13:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:05:38 +0000
 >>From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >>Subject: Non-UFO Question
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Dear All,

 >>This is a non-UFO question. Does anyone know how I might find
 >>out who was the head of Disney in the early to mid l980's ? If
 >>you do know, could you contact me direct at:

 >>pmquest@dial.pipex.com

 >Can anyone tell me how I can get other people to do all my
 >research for me without paying them anything?

Hi John and list members,

Maybe you could ask Philip Mantle for some expert advice:-)))))

Best,

Jean-Luc Rivera








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   May > May 22

                    2 Million Download SETI Screen Saver

From: Steven L. Wilson <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:59:50 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:16:05 -0400
Subject: 2 Million Download SETI Screen Saver


2 million download SETI screen saver

May 18, 2000
Web posted at: 5:44 p.m. EDT (2144 GMT)

More than 2 million home computers have been enlisted in a
search for extraterrestrial intelligence, using a screen saving
program that crunches astronomical data from the Internet,
according to organizers of the undertaking.

Celebrating the first anniversary of the project on Thursday,
the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) organization
called the it "the largest distributed computing experiment
ever."

The innovative application uses spare computer power of personal
computers to analyze scientific data from the radio telescope at
Arecibo, Puerto Rico.

Participants have logged 280,000 years worth of computing time,
said the Planetary Society, which co-sponsors the SETI@home
project with the University of California, Berkeley.

Should a SETI@home computer ever detect an alien signal, its
user will "merit a place in the history books as one of the
humans who opened the door to an incredible new view of the
cosmos," the society said.

Those wanting to join in the search should go to one of the
following Web sites:

http://planetary.org or http://setiathome.berkely.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------










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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:42:28 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:26:05 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:23:33 -0400
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >Fwd Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:03:28 -0400

 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:59:18 +0200
 >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >>I guess the weight from a (light weight?) "model saucer" should
 >>also bend the phone/power lines a little bit. And, that's not
 >>clearly visible on the photos, just above the saucer, is it?

 >No bending

 >>Further, I wonder if it's possible to detect that the
 >>trees/bushes shown on the 2 photos bent (slightly?) in the wind
 >>(gusts) emenating from the saucer, as reported by the Trents?
 >>Are the position of the plants/branches somewhat different in
 >>the 2 photos?

 >Can't see them well enough t know if they were bent at all by wind

 >>Further, do we know anything about the existence of any military
 >>and/or civilian airfields (installations) in the McMinnville
 >>area - in those days?

 >None

 >>And, I think we shouldn't underestimate the possibilities for
 >>the Trents to make a hoax. Even though they were (seemingly)
 >>"simple peasants", they were surely clever enough to do this!

 >Not likely they would think of such a thing.... not part of
 >their normal daily routine or activities.   Even if they did
 >think of it they were too occupied with other activities to do it.


Bruce & List:

Referring to the following URLs:

1.    http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/500511.htm

2. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m14-014.shtml
(one of my prior emails, dated 14 May; I did measure the
relative locations/positions of some of the bush/tree "branches"
of the tree/bush as seen at the house to the left on the two
photos, and I found no indications of any wind gusts from the
saucer had exposed these branches; they were in the same
horizontal/vertical positions when the object shows it's bottom
towards the camera.)

My conclusions based upon all of the emails in this thread by
now, is therefore that:

1(a). The object is a "model saucer" suspended from a thin, but
relatively long, strong, steel string (thin enough to not being
seen on the photos), attached to the object's
superstructure/antenna - being close to the photographer - and
it IS a hoax.

1(b). The object is a "model saucer" thrown into the air - two
times after each other (of course, they could have practiced
many times before taking the two photos) - and without any
rotation (you don't need to throw it like a frisbee) - by a
person standing behind the house to the left  (or even standing
at a higher point, throwing/dropping it down) - and it IS a
hoax. (The camera's shutter speed could be held relatively high;
@ 1/250?).

3. The object is a real aircraft (most likely experimental),
civilian or military, american or forreign, piloted on-board, or
remotely piloted (maybe the explanation for the off-centered
"antenna"?) - and it's NOT a hoax. (Though a military/civilian
- apparently - noiseless, disc shaped aircraft from 1950 seems
"highly unlikely" - even experimental.)

4. The object is a _real_ UFO (remotely piloted or not.....) -
and it's NOT a hoax.

These 4 possible explanations are ranked according to my
personal, subjective judgement. (Explanation no. 4 should have
about the same occurrence probability as a person being hitten
by a small meteorite or some space junk, I believe, or maybe 10,
100 or more times less than that....)


Regards,

Asgeir










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                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:06:58 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:28:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:05:38 +0000
 >>From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >>Subject: Non-UFO Question
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>This is a non-UFO question. Does anyone know how I might find
 >>out who was the head of Disney in the early to mid l980's ? If
 >>you do know, could you contact me direct at:

 >>pmquest@dial.pipex.com

 >Can anyone tell me how I can get other people to do all my
 >research for me without paying them anything?

John,

Why, questions like who was head of Disney are the smaller
research trifles when you consider the bigger question of a book
about AA. :)

What I want to know is how difficult is it to email or call
Disney public affairs (or the whatever they call it) and ask
them?

Cheers,

Robert







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:49:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:43:47 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:10:28 -0500
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:43:31 -0500
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >First, I am not promoting the theory that the Trents lied or
 >hoaxed the photos in question. What I am saying is that Bruce is
 >a good technical investigator, but not a psychologist or FBI
 >trained "profiler". For him to make general observations about
 >the "intent" of the Trents as a form of support for his
 >technical analysis out of place.

Let's get some stuff straight. The technical analysis of the
photos is directed first and foremost toward answering the
question... is it a fake? That is, can we find any evidence in
the photo that conclusively or strongly points toward a
fabrication. However, even if no such evidence is found (and
none was) the photos could still have been faked.

However, the "better the pictures", that is, the lower the
evidence of a fake. the higher is raised the "faking bar", i,.e.
the technical difficulty of producing the picture.

If no evidence of fakery is found, then one can still ask "How
was it faked in such a way as to produce no evidence of the
fake?" An example of this might be the observation that IF it
was a photo if a model under the wire, then the lack of
detection of a suspension means that the thread was very tiny
and/or color matched to the background.

To intentionally pick a very fine thread might not take much
thought. To intentionally pick a thread color matched to the
background _would_ take some "thinking ahead" ("They are going
to examine these photos carefully for a thread so I'd better
take a precaution to be sure it can't be detected..... aha...
I'll pick a color that matches the background.")

In the Trent case there is no evidence of a thread (despite
Sheaffer's suggestion that a film flaw in one photo is a "tangle
of threads"). There is no evidence of bending or sagging of the
wire. All this means is that it could b a very lightweight
something that was suspended. The different orientations of the
bject and the different sighting lines mean that it wasn't a
"zero level" hoax... "take a pie pan and hang it from a
string and take two photos and say it flew away before you got
another photo" There was some "thought" in this hoax... "I'll
take pictures from different directions and hope that the people
who look at the photos think that the object moved."

Or... slide the suspension along the wire and then take the
picture from two directions.... this will synthesize motion of
the object (cleverer than two photos from a single direction but
not _as_ clever as simply sliding it between photos and taking
both photos from the same location... why not as clever, you ask?
Because now you have to explain why you moved as you did; In the
Trent case he has to explain why he backed up rather than
running forward... added complexity for the hoax)

I guess the point is that the technical analysis deterimines the
tecnical difficulty of the photos.

_Then_ one must analyze the people to determine whether or not
they might have such ability (and equipment , tme, money if
necessary and desire to carry this off: create photos and a
story and maintain consitency through days, weeks, months,
YEARS... of questioning))

 >For him to make general observations about the "intent" of the
 >Trents as a form of support for his technical analysis out of
 >place.

It is not out of place to make a comment about ability. I can
offer my opinion on (a) the technical difficulty and, after
talking with one of the witnesses many more hours than most
interviewers over many year, I can certainly offer my opinion on
(b) whether these people could have met the technical
difficulties... or would have had the equipment, time, ability,
etc. to produce such a fake. This isn't the same as making an
observation about "intent". However, I can certainly offer my
opinion on whether or not it seems likely that they would have
had a "desire" to fake photos for some reason.

 >Also, as our debate on the Gulf Breeze photos revealed, Bruce
 >has made his determinations based on what he thinks the subjects
 >are NOT capable of rather than what they MIGHT be capable of but
 >keep to themselves. There is nothing wrong with this approach as
 >long as any investigator admits the possibility of fraud;
 >something that Bruce feels doesn't exist with a certainty that
 >can't be supported by any provable fact.

Nor can the fakery of the Trents be supported with any fact...
And, all the circumstantial evidence points against it. In fact,
the only argument for a hoax is "flying saucers don' exist...
there is no evidence that they exist..... therefore the Trents
faked their pictures"

As for the Gulf Breeze photos, without trying to branch off into
a large dispute over them, let me just say that there were a
number for which the technical difficulty exceeded that of most
photographers (and when it came to the stereo photos perhaps it
exceeded the knowledge or all photographers... simply because
they had never thought about faking such photos... at least you
couldn't read about stereo faking in a book)

 >And finally, like the Gulf Breeze photos, there is a sense that
 >Bruce feels the subject is "too dumb" to promote or perform a
 >hoax because of the unnecessarily high sophistication of
t>echnique Bruce feels is required to create the photo in
 >question. I saw nothing in the Gulf Breeze photos that could not
 >be created with off the shelf Polaroid equipment and applied
 >common sense.

The stereo photos required "uncommon sense" and certain others
required technical ability you might find in Hollywood.

 > Likewise, I see no reason why the disk in the Trent photos
 >should be more than a hubcap or the such lobbed in the air for
 >the shot.

If this is true, then you don't understand the analysis
presented by Hartmann in the Condon Report, nor do you
understand what I have written.

 >Of course, without even knowing the Trents, I'll concede that it
 >_could_ be real. Likewise, without knowing the Trents, my common
 >sense tells me that any idiot could throw a hubcap or milk can
 >lid in the air and get the same results. Why raise the level of
 >difficulty artificially? As I've said before, it doesn't have to
 >be complicated to look believable. But it does have to appear
 >complicated if you want the subject to appear dim witted by
 >comparison.

Not artifically raising the difficulty. The diffulty is real. Go
ahead,  Try it. I'm assuming you consider yourself "above" being
just "any idiot". Remember, there is more to creating a UFO
sighting than just throwing a pie pan into the air. and taking a
picture.

As for dimwitted... In the Trent case it isn't the photo
difficulty that makes them seem "dimwitted..."

 >I see no need for this.

 >Let the imagery stand or fall on its own merits without making
 >assumptions about the abilities or intentions of the subjects.
 >After all, if the imagery can't be proved one way or the other
 >with hands-on technical analysis, then anecdotal stories about
 >the subjects' intentions prove even less.

Well, if you read about the analysis of the distance estimate
based on the photometric analysis of the brightness of the
bottom of the object, then you will see where a key "difficulty"
or "luck" comes into play.  But if the photos prove nothing
(because no evidence of a hoax is found) this does NOT mean that
the "anecdotal stories" are worthless... which seems to be your
suggestion in this paragraph. Had they _not_ taken photos their
story of the sighting would still be interesting... but of
course, it would then be just one of zillions.  It is the photos
which are clear enough to be either or hoax or the real thing...
no halfway point... which make this case stand high above
others.






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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Gordon German <gordon.german@scientist.com>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:57:12 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:46:13 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 03:51:23 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:00:08 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:59:18 +0200
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:52:07 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>And, I think we shouldn't underestimate the possibilities for
 >>the Trents to make a hoax. Even though they were (seemingly)
 >>"simple peasants", they were surely clever enough to do this

 >No, not by a long shot. They would have had to be
 >extraordinarily lucky.

 >Careful analysis over three decades has revealed a number of
 >subtle details in these photos that you just can't reproduce in
 >any straightforward hoax hypothesis. And that's a point that
 >skepti-bunkers seem to deliberately ignore.

I've had some professional experience in image analysis,
although usually from satellite or aerial sources, so I wouldn't
claim to be an expert in this sort of photography. Still, I've
downloaded the Condon Report photos and even with a just a
cursory glance, a couple of things don't seem quite right. Maybe
those who have had a chance to view the originals (or negatives,
or have access to better versions etc) could clear this up for
me:

1. I can't see how one can 'triangulate' the distance to the
object. These are not stereoscopic photos and the object has
moved significantly between shots. To estimate the distance, one
has to make an assumption on the object's velocity, or
vice-versa. A computer analysis could give you an estimated
depth/pixel-density correlation, but again, you have to make
assumptions on the reflective index etc of the object. In short,
I can't see how anyone can make a judgement on the distance/size
without first assuming what it is.

2. Even with such assumptions, I can't get any triangulation
that would account for both the movement of the object _and_ the
displacement of the pole near the shed in the lower left corner.
Something seems fishy.....

I'm reminded of a prank we played on our neighbours when I was
quite small and wonder if this is not a more obvious
explanation. If I recall correctly, someone mentioned earlier
that the Trents' had claimed to have seen UFOs before, but no
one believed them. Surely that would set them up as the perfect
target for a couple of local lads trying to amuse themselves.
This would explain why the Trents' seemed so sincere - they
were!

Regards,

Gordon German








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                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:57:51 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:36:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:05:38 +0000
 >>From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >>Subject: Non-UFO Question
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Dear All,

 >>This is a non-UFO question. Does anyone know how I might find
 >>out who was the head of Disney in the early to mid l980's ? If
 >>you do know, could you contact me direct at:

 >>pmquest@dial.pipex.com

 >Can anyone tell me how I can get other people to do all my
 >research for me without paying them anything?


Dear John,

Very  amusing I'm sure. It was so funny I laughed so much I
nearly had another heart attack. If I could stay out of hospital
long enough to spend a few days in my local reference library I
wouldn't have to ask the people on UFO UpDates for assistance,
but I'm afraid I don't have any option at the moment as I'm in
hospital more than I'm at home.

Happy sarcasms.

Philip.


--
Philip Mantle, 1 Woodhall Drive, Batley,
West Yorkshire, England, WF17 7SW.
Tele: 01924 44049. E-mail: pmquest@dial.pipex.com
www.beyondroswell.com









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   May > May 22

                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:05:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:38:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 17:54:57 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:05:38 +0000
 >>>From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >>>Subject: Non-UFO Question
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Dear All,

 >>>This is a non-UFO question. Does anyone know how I might find
 >>>out who was the head of Disney in the early to mid l980's ? If
 >>>you do know, could you contact me direct at:

 >>>pmquest@dial.pipex.com

 >>Can anyone tell me how I can get other people to do all my
 >>research for me without paying them anything?

 >Hi John and list members,

 >Maybe you could ask Philip Mantle for some expert advice:-)))))


Dear Jean-Luc,

Maybe Rimmer will pay the contributors of his 'magazine'.

Philip.

--
Philip Mantle, 1 Woodhall Drive, Batley,
West Yorkshire, England, WF17 7SW.
Tele: 01924 44049. E-mail: pmquest@dial.pipex.com
www.beyondroswell.com









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   May > May 22

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 06:31:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:42:59 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:01:23 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

In a response to Jerome Clark, Jim mentioned:

 >PS: Your books are still too freakin' heavy!

I suppose we could begin a discussion of what material should be
left out, but that would likely result in more text than the
original publications.

Steve







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:15:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:59:34 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:49:01 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:43:47 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

Previously, I wrote:

 >>First, I am not promoting the theory that the Trents lied or
 >>hoaxed the photos in question. What I am saying is that Bruce is
 >>a good technical investigator, but not a psychologist or FBI
 >>trained "profiler". For him to make general observations about
 >>the "intent" of the Trents as a form of support for his
 >>technical analysis out of place.

Bruce replied:

 >Let's get some stuff straight. The technical analysis of the
 >photos is directed first and foremost toward answering the
 >question... is it a fake? That is, can we find any evidence in
 >the photo that conclusively or strongly points toward a
 >fabrication. However, even if no such evidence is found (and
 >none was) the photos could still have been faked.

<snip>

 >However, the "better the pictures", that is, the lower the
 >evidence of a fake. the higher is raised the "faking bar", i,.e.
 >the technical difficulty of producing the picture.

Sorry, Bruce, but you are wrong. Since I work in special effects
for a living, I can tell you that the simplest approach usually
achieves the most believable results.

Take for instance the work of the Lydecker brothers during the
30's 40's and 50's in Hollywood. They shot all their stuff using
models out in normal daylight and it looked so real as to be
undetectable to most audiences. In fact, they were once up for
an Academy Award but were denied because the Academy thought the
shots the brothers claimed were SFX shots were real! It was the
ultimate backhanded compliment. Likewise, I am sure you've seen
their work in countless old movies and was never the wiser. What
did they do before going to Hollywood? They were just dumb old
farmers working for their dumb old farmer dad.

Moving on, Bruce wrote:

 >If no evidence of fakery is found, then one can still ask "How
 >was it faked in such a way as to produce no evidence of the
 >fake?" An example of this might be the observation that IF it
 >was a photo if a model under the wire, then the lack of
 >detection of a suspension means that the thread was very tiny
 >and/or color matched to the background.

 >To intentionally pick a very fine thread might not take much
 >thought. To intentionally pick a thread color matched to the
 >background _would_ take some "thinking ahead" ("They are going
 >to examine these photos carefully for a thread so I'd better
 >take a precaution to be sure it can't be detected..... aha...
 >I'll pick a color that matches the background.")

<snip>

 >I guess the point is that the technical analysis deterimines
 >the tecnical difficulty of the photos.

Man, you must really think the Trents were stupid! It doesn't
take a genius to figure out that the tread (if there was one)
would need to be the same color as the sky! (duh!) Likewise, it
doesn't take a genius to figure out that a thread wouldn't be
necessary at all if the object were simply thrown in the air.

Regarding such, I wrote:

 >>Likewise, I see no reason why the disk in the Trent photos
 >>should be more than a hubcap or the such lobbed in the air for
 >>the shot.

To which, Bruce replied:

 >If this is true, then you don't understand the analysis
 >presented by Hartmann in the Condon Report, nor do you
 >understand what I have written.

How condescending to suggest that because I don't agree with you
that I don't understand you or the Condon Report.

Also, how typical.


Later,

Roger Evans







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   May > May 22

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:25:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:27:47 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:42:28 +0200
 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >2. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m14-014.shtml
 >(one of my prior emails, dated 14 May; I did measure the
 >relative locations/positions of some of the bush/tree "branches"
 >of the tree/bush as seen at the house to the left on the two
 >photos, and I found no indications of any wind gusts from the
 >saucer had exposed these branches; they were in the same
 >horizontal/vertical positions when the object shows it's bottom
 >towards the camera.)

Any wind gust as the object accelerated away would have occurred
_after_ the second photo.

 >My conclusions based upon all of the emails in this thread by
 >now, is therefore that:

 >1(a). The object is a "model saucer" suspended from a thin, but
 >relatively long, strong, steel string (thin enough to not being
 >seen on the photos), attached to the object's
 >superstructure/antenna - being close to the photographer - and
 >it IS a hoax.

Well, if a hoax and in the morning the supposed steel wire would
not have been shiny... otherwise would have a sun glint
somwhere along the wire (much more likely a thread... probably
white). Still need to explain the excessive brightness of the
image of the bottom of the object if only abou 16 ft away.

 >1(b). The object is a "model saucer" thrown into the air - two
 >times after each other (of course, they could have practiced
 >many times before taking the two photos) - and without any
 >rotation (you don't need to throw it like a frisbee) - by a
 >person standing behind the house to the left (or even standing
 >at a higher point, throwing/dropping it down) - and it IS a
 >hoax. (The camera's shutter speed could be held relatively high;
 >@ 1/250?).

Sorry. Camera shutter fixed at 1/50 sec. Hartmann studied this
aspect carefully and concluded to evidence of rotation.

 >3. The object is a real aircraft (most likely experimental),
 >civilian or military, american or forreign, piloted on-board, or
 >remotely piloted (maybe the explanation for the off-centered
 >"antenna"?) - and it's NOT a hoax. (Though a military/civilian
 >- apparently - noiseless, disc shaped aircraft from 1950 seems
 >"highly unlikely" - even experimental.)

Can't imagine what circular Top Secret craft would have been
near McMinnville at that time.

 >4. The object is a _real_ UFO (remotely piloted or not.....) -
 >and it's NOT a hoax.
The only conclusion that does not conflict with other
evidence. :)

 >These 4 possible explanations are ranked according to my
 >personal, subjective judgement. (Explanation no. 4 should have
 >about the same occurrence probability as a person being hitten
 >by a small meteorite or some space junk, I believe, or maybe 10,
 >100 or more times less than that....)

People _have_ been hit!








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:28:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:30:17 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:57:12 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Gordon German <gordon.german@scientist.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 03:51:23 -0400 (EDT)
 >>Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:00:08 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

<snip>

 >1. I can't see how one can 'triangulate' the distance to the
 >object. These are not stereoscopic photos and the object has
 >moved significantly between shots. To estimate the distance, one
 >has to make an assumption on the object's velocity, or
 >vice-versa. A computer analysis could give you an estimated
 >depth/pixel-density correlation, but again, you have to make
 >assumptions on the reflective index etc of the object. In short,
 >I can't see how anyone can make a judgement on the distance/size
 >without first assuming what it is.

Distance was not estimated by triangulation. Read Hartmann's
section of the Condon report or the first paper posted at
www.mcmenamins.com... Hotel Oregon... scroll down and click on
Maccabee papers presented at public lecture a week ago.

 >I'm reminded of a prank we played on our neighbours when I was
 >quite small and wonder if this is not a more obvious
 >explanation. If I recall correctly, someone mentioned earlier
 >that the Trents' had claimed to have seen UFOs before, but no
 >one believed them. Surely that would set them up as the perfect
 >tere!

Read the second paper posted at the Hotel Oregon site






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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:45:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:33:35 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:15:12 -0500
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:49:01 -0400
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:43:47 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

Previously, I wrote:

<snip>

 >>However, the "better the pictures", that is, the lower the
 >>evidence of a fake. the higher is raised the "faking bar", i,.e.
 >>the technical difficulty of producing the picture.

 >Sorry, Bruce, but you are wrong. Since I work in special effects
 >for a living, I can tell you that the simplest approach usually
 >achieves the most believable results.

 >Take for instance the work of the Lydecker brothers during the
 >30's 40's and 50's in Hollywood. They shot all their stuff using
 >models out in normal daylight and it looked so real as to be
 >undetectable to most audiences. In fact, they were once up for
 >an Academy Award but were denied because the Academy thought the
 >shots the brothers claimed were SFX shots were real! It was the
 >ultimate backhanded compliment. Likewise, I am sure you've seen
 >their work in countless old movies and was never the wiser. What
 >did they do before going to Hollywood? They were just dumb old
 >farmers working for their dumb old farmer dad.

Yers, but I bet they spent some time "improving" their
photographic and "simulation" (with models) skills before taing
on Hollywood. I saw some UFO film by "plain old famers" in West
Virginia some years ago. I recall one section of film
photograped at an airfield. A large 40 years ago passenger
airplane landed in th fields and was immediately followed by a
flying saucer that came "swinging" into the picture. Unlike the
Lydecker brothers who "convinced" early movie audiences, this
film wouldn't make anything but maybe an Ed Wood movie. The
pendulum motion of the saucer was obvious. IT swung back and
forth. Also, it was OUTSIDE the fence around the airport and
much smaller than the fence... yet it was supposedly a large
saucer following the plane.

 >Moving on, Bruce wrote:

 >>If no evidence of fakery is found, then one can still ask "How
 >>was it faked in such a way as to produce no evidence of the
 >>fake?" An example of this might be the observation that IF it
 >>was a photo if a model under the wire, then the lack of
 >>detection of a suspension means that the thread was very tiny
 >>and/or color matched to the background.

 >>To intentionally pick a very fine thread might not take much
 >>thought. To intentionally pick a thread color matched to the
 >>background _would_ take some "thinking ahead" ("They are going
 >>to examine these photos carefully for a thread so I'd better
 >>take a precaution to be sure it can't be detected..... aha...
 >>I'll pick a color that matches the background.")

 ><snip>

 >>I guess the point is that the technical analysis deterimines
 >>the tecnical difficulty of the photos.>

 >Man, you must really think the Trents were stupid!

You got it, man!

 >It doesn't
 >take a genius to figure out that the tread (if there was one)
 >would need to be the same color as the sky! (duh!) Likewise, it
 >doesn't take a genius to figure out that a thread wouldn't be
 >necessary at all if the object were simply thrown in the air.

 >Regarding such, I wrote:

 >>>Likewise, I see no reason why the disk in the Trent photos
 >>>should be more than a hubcap or the such lobbed in the air for
 >>>the shot.

 >To which, Bruce replied:

 >>If this is true, then you don't understand the analysis
 >>presented by Hartmann in the Condon Report, nor do you
 >>understand what I have written.

 >How condescending to suggest that because I don't agree with you
 >that I don't understand you or the Condon Report.

Hartmann offered reasons to reject the rotating (thrown) object
hypothesis. You say "I see no reason.." OK, Then,
explain why Hartmann's reasons are bas/incorrect/not worth
a plugged saucer.

 >Also, how typical.

I suppose.

But condescension or lack of same isn't the point. The point
is... can anyone cm up with solid reasons to believe the
pictures are a hoax.








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                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:50:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:45:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:06:58 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >John,

 >Why, questions like who was head of Disney are the smaller
 >research trifles when you consider the bigger question of a book
 >about AA. :)

 >What I want to know is how difficult is it to email or call
 >Disney public affairs (or the whatever they call it) and ask
 >them?

I suppose we can all be critical at some level, but your
suggestion isn't as easy as it seems. Disney doesn't appear to
have a quickly accessible Corporate email address, per se. They
have multiple email locations for various aspects of their
business, designed for tourists and customers, but none where
historical corporate information is located.

Out of curiousity (just to see how much trouble it would be)
I've emailed one of their contacts and posed Philip's question
to them to see how they respond. I suspect that the query will
be forwarded up the food chain to someone who can reply, but
that will likely take a number of days.

To be honest, I don't have a problem with anyone asking
questions on the Internet in hopes of getting answers,
regardless of the final destination of that information. It
happens everyday on thousands of lists, and that's one of the
great joys of the Net. On the other hand, information obtained
via the Net is often worth exactly what you've paid for it.
Even useful information needs to be double checked for accuracy
before you place any value in it, but as general guidance it's
usually very helpful.

Steve







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:06:03 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:47:16 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:42:28 +0200
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:26:05 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

<snip>

 >My conclusions based upon all of the emails in this thread by
 >now, is therefore that:

 >1(a). The object is a "model saucer" suspended from a thin, but
 >relatively long, strong, steel string (thin enough to not being
 >seen on the photos), attached to the object's
 >superstructure/antenna

Asgeir and List:

It might have been nylon fishing line. This is very strong,
certainly strong enough for a light weight object. The stuff
that I had for my spinning rod in 1958 (believe it or not, I
just went up to the attic and found it in my old tackle box) was
white or clear nylon. Pretty thin stuff and probably invisible
at 20 feet against the sky.

Clear skies,

Bob Young








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:47:51 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:54:16 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:42:28 +0200
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:26:05 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Glob

 >My conclusions based upon all of the emails in this thread by
 >now, is therefore that:

 >1(a). The object is a "model saucer" suspended from a thin, but
 >relatively long, strong, steel string (thin enough to not being
 >seen on the photos), attached to the object's
 >superstructure/antenna - being close to the photographer - and
 >it IS a hoax.

Suspended from what? If the wires at the top of the photos, then
Trent was approximately 15 feet away and the "model" was only 4
inches across. Steel wire was unnecessary and would have shown
up on the photos at that distance. I would go for clear nylon
fishing line myself.

If Trent was so damn clever and methodical in devising a hoax,
as you seem to maintain, then why would he be so stupid as to
include the overhead suspension wires in his photos?

The major problems with any model theory remains:

1. The bright shadowed bottom that is "whiter than white",
readily explainable by atmospheric haze of a distant object, but
requiring some sort of elaborate hoax hypothesis if up close.

2. The difference in size between the two photos that cannot be
simply explained as a difference in distance from where the
photos were taken. You either need two models or a swinging
model. (However, readily explained by a distant object simply
moving away.)

3. The elevation angles match exactly with the size difference
of a distant object moving away in level flight.

4. The azimuth angles are exactly those of a distant object
moving due west.

5. There is no visible rotation between shots, virtually ruling
out a single-point suspension model. Two or more-point
suspension constrains the angle of swing w.r.t. the wire and
what profiles can be seen.

6. The edge-on profile in photo 2 and the bottom-showing profile
in photo 1 must be replicated along with everything else.

Now I defy you to get all of these details to occur
_simultaneously_ in any straightforward hoax hypothesis.
Remember, just getting one or two right isn't enough. You have
to get them _all_ right at the same time with a model.

 >1(b). The object is a "model saucer" thrown into the air - two
 >times after each other (of course, they could have practiced
 >many times before taking the two photos) - and without any
 >rotation (you don't need to throw it like a frisbee) - by a
 >person standing behind the house to the left (or even standing
 >at a higher point, throwing/dropping it down) - and it IS a
 >hoax. (The camera's shutter speed could be held relatively high;
 >@ 1/250?).

1. The camera's shutter speed was fixed -- cheap camera, poor
farmer.

2. There is no place to "drop" a model down -- do you think
they were surrounded by highrises?

3. However you toss a model, you are going to get some rotation
and "flopping" (unless you spin it for stability). The
"saucers" are pitched at nearly the same angle and the offset
"tower" shows no evidence of large rotation of any sizable
rotation (my own measurements indicate the rotation between
photos couldn't have been more than +/- 30 degrees -- thus the
odds of reproducing this detail by tossing are 1 in 6 at best.)

4. Tossed or dropped, you still have to reproduce all the
details mentioned in the suspended model discussion above.
Again, just try to do that with a tossed or suspended model!
However, everything is consistent and explained very naturally
by a distant object moving away to the west.

 >3. The object is a real aircraft (most likely experimental),
 >civilian or military, american or forreign, piloted on-board, or
 >remotely piloted (maybe the explanation for the off-centered
 >"antenna"?) - and it's NOT a hoax. (Though a military/civilian
 >- apparently - noiseless, disc shaped aircraft from 1950 seems
 >"highly unlikely" - even experimental.)

Yes -- a military/civilian apparently noiseless disc-shaped
aircraft from 1950 seems "highly unlikely." There is zero
evidence that such a thing existed.

 >4. The object is a _real_ UFO (remotely piloted or not.....) -
 >and it's NOT a hoax.

 >These 4 possible explanations are ranked according to my
 >personal, subjective judgement.

That's the problem -- purely subjective and no analysis.

 >(Explanation no. 4 should have
 >about the same occurrence probability as a person being hitten
 >by a small meteorite or some space junk, I believe, or maybe 10,
 >100 or more times less than that....)

Pray tell how did you arrive at that statistic?

Now "compute" the odds of Trent getting all the subtle details
in the photos just right and also making it agree exactly with
the story they told. These odds are truly long, very long.


David Rudiak









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   May > May 22

                  Re: Ball Lightning Suspected In Mischief

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 14:58:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:56:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Lightning Suspected In Mischief


Thanks to researcher Ron Schaffner for informing of the
following report

COPIED FROM: The Columbus Dispatch
Date: Saturday, April 22, 2000
Section: NEWS
Page: 10B
Byline: John Switzer
Source: Dispatch Columnist
Column: Weather

BALL LIGHTNING SUSPECTED IN KITCHEN MISCHIEF

Earlier this month, while a thunderstorm was hammering Upper
Arlington about 4:20 one afternoon, some people saw strange
balls of fire floating through the air.

Afterward, Emma McClenaghan called me, wondering whether what
she had seen was ball lightning.

"I was sitting in a chair in the family room when I heard
thunder," McClenaghan said. "I turned around and in my kitchen I
saw the big ball of flame."

After a short while it disappeared. "It took out three phones,
the garage door opener and the light in my oven," she said.

"A neighbor behind me saw the ball drifting down Lane Avenue.
The woman next door saw one in her house.

"In back of me they had quite of bit of damage" to an awning,
doormat and the electrical system.

Those neighbors thought the lightning left the house by way of a
dog chain attached to the building and then stripped some bark
off a tree.

Other neighbors had problems with their computers after the
storm.

The Handy Weather Answer Book says: "Ball lightning is one of
nature's most mysterious phenomena. Usually seen during violent
thunderstorms, the spheres of glowing light are typically the
size of bowling balls or basketballs.

"They can last from a few seconds to many minutes. The spheres
can simply vanish into thin air, but can also pass through
window glass and screens, leaving burn marks behind.

"Not every scientist is convinced the phenomenon even exists.
But there are numerous credible reports of balls of fire
floating through the air, often after nearby lightning strikes.
They usually do not cause much damage and even seem playful.
They have been known to roll down the aisles of airliners or
pass through an open window into a startled resident's bedroom."

Ken Reeves, a meteorologist for AccuWeather, said he believes
strange things can happen during intense lightning strikes.

Whether the effect is ball lightning or not, he cannot say. "The
way the electric impulses can dance or move can give many
illusions, one of which is what a number of people refer to as
ball lightning," he said.

"I've never seen it myself, but it's hard to doubt the
description of those who have seen something."

End of article
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/








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   May > May 22

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:54:32 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:00:26 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Gordon German <gordon.german@scientist.com>
 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:57:12 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:46:13 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 03:51:23 -0400 (EDT)
 >>Fwd Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:00:08 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Careful analysis over three decades has revealed a number of
 >>subtle details in these photos that you just can't reproduce in
 >>any straightforward hoax hypothesis. And that's a point that
 >>skepti-bunkers seem to deliberately ignore.

 >I've had some professional experience in image analysis,
 >although usually from satellite or aerial sources, so I wouldn't
 >claim to be an expert in this sort of photography. Still, I've
 >downloaded the Condon Report photos and even with a just a
 >cursory glance, a couple of things don't seem quite right. Maybe
 >those who have had a chance to view the originals (or negatives,
 >or have access to better versions etc) could clear this up for me:

 >1. I can't see how one can 'triangulate' the distance to the
 >object. These are not stereoscopic photos and the object has
 >moved significantly between shots. To estimate the distance, one
 >has to make an assumption on the object's velocity, or
 >vice-versa. A computer analysis could give you an estimated
 >depth/pixel-density correlation, but again, you have to make
 >assumptions on the reflective index etc of the object. In short,
 >I can't see how anyone can make a judgement on the distance/size
 >without first assuming what it is.

You're quite right. One can't 'triangulate' the distance of a
moving object without knowing the speed. Hartmann in the Condon
report simply tried to distinguish between whether the object
was close (i.e., a model) or far away (i.e. real and
extraordinary). He came to the conclusion that the object was
distant based on a photometric analysis of the shadowed bottom
of the 'saucer' in photo 1. It was too bright for a model up
close ("whiter than white"). Hartmann set up a photometric
scaling system using measured luminance values of objects of
known distance in the photos. Hartmann (and others ofter him)
attributed the bright bottom to atmospheric haze or light
scatter of an object in the distance.

Now as to precise distance, the photometric analysis can't do
that without precise knowledge of reflective index of everything
in the photos, but it can get you in the ballpark of where the
object would have been. The object was distant -- a quarter mile
to a mile. It wasn't a model. That's the main point.

Other details in the photos also support the distant object
hypothesis. First, there is the precise match of the size
difference to the shift in elevation angles (corresponds to a
distant object moving away in level flight). The azimuth shift
is that of a distant object flying due west. There is no visible
rotation of the object (almost rules out a tossed model). And,
of course, there is no hint of a thread in the photos despite
being subjected to very careful computer analysis.

I might also add that the Trent's story matches up exactly with
what is seen in the photos. Trying to get all the details to
match with a tossed model or a model suspended from a thread
seems close to impossible.

 >2. Even with such assumptions, I can't get any triangulation
 >that would account for both the movement of the object _and_ the
 >displacement of the pole near the shed in the lower left corner.
 >Something seems fishy.....

The pole sat beyond the garage at the left at out near the road
(which was 100 feet from the garage). The movement of the pole
is a simple parallax shift caused by Trent moving to his right
about 5 feet to take the second photo. (Please also note that
the camera wasn't at exactly the same height in the two photos,
which causes a small vertical parallax shift as well.)

The movement of any distant object would be completely
independent of the shift of the pole. I guess I don't see what
the problem is here.

 >I'm reminded of a prank we played on our neighbours when I was
 >quite small and wonder if this is not a more obvious
 >explanation. If I recall correctly, someone mentioned earlier
 >that the Trents' had claimed to have seen UFOs before, but no
 >one believed them. Surely that would set them up as the perfect
 >target for a couple of local lads trying to amuse themselves.
 >This would explain why the Trents' seemed so sincere - they
 >were!

But how would the local lads silently suspend a large object in
the air and completely out in the open for a minute or so?

David Rudiak








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   May > May 22

                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 17:39:08 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:06:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:57:51 +0000
 >From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:05:38 +0000
 >>>From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >>>Subject: Non-UFO Question
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Dear All,

 >>>This is a non-UFO question. Does anyone know how I might find
 >>>out who was the head of Disney in the early to mid l980's ? If
 >>>you do know, could you contact me direct at:

 >>>pmquest@dial.pipex.com

 >>Can anyone tell me how I can get other people to do all my
 >>research for me without paying them anything?

 >Dear John,

 >Very amusing I'm sure. It was so funny I laughed so much I
 >nearly had another heart attack. If I could stay out of hospital
 >long enough to spend a few days in my local reference library I
 >wouldn't have to ask the people on UFO UpDates for assistance,
 >but I'm afraid I don't have any option at the moment as I'm in
 >hospital more than I'm at home.

 >Happy sarcasms.

 >Philip.

Dear Phil, EBK, Tail-twisters and other organisms,

First, asking for help is something all of us can do with
impunity here, and that, because it is my perception of what
UpDates is all about. That some folks believe themselves
ill-used in being asked makes them wrong, not you. This is my
opinion.

Second, personally, those of us who have been unwell for a
while, and that's me in spades, do understand. Some days, it is
all one may do to sit down at the computer and type a word. So,
prayers and good wishes to you in your recovery.

Third, when I've asked for help here, I usually got a response.
But never an answer. Interesting. It may be that there are no
answers. Or the answers to the questions raised by the UFO
conundrum, are not available to us. The reason for this lacking,
may be too terrible to think about. Maybe it is all just some
gigantic hallucination. I don't think so, especially with the
vivid memories which I harbor within me. But it is possible. And
being one of the possibilities, it makes me cringe. Being fooled
is not one of my favorite things, even being fooled by the Big
Guy. I am almost used to being fooled by the political system,
the military and such, but Him? Woof! Makes you wanna toss your
lunch. Holler New York.

Also terribly interesting, if not revealing, is the response
proffered is usually a repeat of something in one of the
respondents' published materials. Chances are we all read the
damned book. No need to go over the drivel yet again.

But wait, there's more! Morty is writin' a book! Well, what have
we here? More BS? More lies and opinions and no facts? Yup. Mia
culpa. There is a difference, however. One speaks one's own
truth and demands that it not necessarily be the readers'. Just
keep an open mind. Shoot, is that asking too much? Or is it?

And so, the only thing one has left is his or her sense of
hummer. In my case, it's Gripple. Wouldn't it be really funny if
say, our government came out and said, "Hey folks, it's just a
joke, see? And you Dopeys' bought it. Hah! What a buncha
Maroons!"

Last, if yous is gonna write me, do it On List not off. Ain't
nuttin wrong wit showin the world you have something to say.
Especially if you are one of us ... the dreaded "A" word ... the
Abductee.

Jim Mortellaro







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   May > May 22

                          Filer's Files #20 -- 2000

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 18:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:11:35 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #20 -- 2000


Filer's Files #20 -- 2000, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 22, 2000, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

FLYING TRIANGLE REPORTS INCREASE

UFO reports in the US were low with less than 200 in April
compared to 400 last November. However, Flying Triangle reports
have increased inferring these may not be of extraterrestrial
origin. It is possible that UFOs are maintaining a low profile
while our Sun continues its heavy solar storm activity. The on
going May solar display is the most magnificent in recent memory
and a new sunspot record occurred on May 18, 2000, with 342 sun
spots.

This number is over double NASA's prediction of 150 for this
solar cycle named "Cycle 23." This activity is far beyond normal
cyclical upswings and may be cause for concern since tremendous
amounts of energy and radiation smash into the Earth's magnetic
field. Our weather may be effected and strong radiation could
create communication and other problems. Large flares and CMEs
are expected that could shift ocean currents and the jet streams
effecting our weather patterns. The US East coast has already
had record setting high temperatures followed by unusually heavy
rains. These bursts of energy can be seen in spectacular
displays of the Aurora Borelis (Northern Lights). NASA's ACE
spacecraft recorded an increase in the solar wind velocity that
peaked on May 18th. Heavy sun spot activity is generally
followed by Solar Flares. NOAA Space Environment Center
forecasters estimate an 80% probability of M-class solar flares
and a 10% chance of a powerful X-class flare in the near future.

FRENCH UFO STUDY IN BOSTON GLOBE

Sunday's Boston Globe Newspaper, May 21, 2000, printed an
article on UFOs entitled: "UFO Theorists Gain Support Abroad,
But Repression at Home".  "High-level officials - including
retired generals from the French Institute of Higher Studies for
National Defense, a government-financed strategy planning agency
- recently took a giant step in openly challenging skeptics
about UFOs." "In a report based on a three-year study, they
concluded that 'numerous manifestations observed by reliable
witnesses could be the work of craft of extraterrestrial origin'
and that, in fact, the best explanation is 'the extraterrestrial
hypothesis.'" "The findings are contained in a 90-page report
titled 'UFOs and Defense: What Should We Prepare For?'" "The
study's originators are four-star General Bernard Norlain,
former commander of the French Tactical Air Force and military
counselor to the prime minister; General Denis Letty, an air
force fighter pilot; and Andre Labia, former head of the
National Center for Space Studies, the French equivalent of
NASA." "Mitchell joins five-star Admiral Lord Hill-Norton, the
former head of the British Ministry of Defense, in calling for
congressional fact-finding hearings into the UFO question." The
Joint Army Navy Air Force Publication 146 threatens to prosecute
anyone under its jurisdiction - including pilots, civilian
agencies, merchant marine captains, and even some fishing
vessels - for disclosing reports of sightings relevant to the
US. See the full article at:

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/142/focus/UFO_theorists_gain_support_abroad_
but_repression_at_home+.

DETECTION AND IDENTIFICATION OF UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS (UFO)

Using Existing Technology MUFON's John Schuessler writes, "For
the past fifty years, civilian UFO organizations have been
collecting, categorizing and archiving UFO reports. By using
proper investigative techniques they have amassed an incredible
amount of information. A major portion of this database is drawn
from eyewitness testimony, supplemented by films, videotapes,
and electronic signal detection. The various US Government
projects Grudge, Blue Book, et al. used the same techniques. As
a result, political and scientific entities have casually
dismissed the evidence as inconsequential. All the while,
various agencies of the US government and other countries were
using all sorts of advanced technologies for Cold War purposes.
Few of these advanced technologies were used to address the UFO
issue. The purpose of this paper is to urge responsible
governmental organizations to reassess their position and to
allow all available technologies to be used to eliminate the UFO
mystery. See:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rcollins632/reports/js_detect_ident_ufos.htm

and

http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/Sanctuary_Of_The_Birds.htm

for updates and reports.

NEW JERSEY FLYING TRIANGLES SIGHTED NEAR OCEAN

UNION BEACH -- I was at Union Beach at about 7:00 PM in full
daylight on May 14, 2000. We were walking along, and my dad
thought he saw a "kite" but later we realized that it was a UFO.
It was a triangle shaped object heading toward the Raritan Bay
just south of New York City on a slant that looked like this
"/". It soon disappeared into the atmosphere and was gone. About
30 seconds after that I noticed three very small white dots,
they were lined up in a triangle. It was very strange because it
was like everything you see on TV. But it happens to you!

TUCKERTON - On May 14, at 9:25 PM a triangle shaped object flew
very slow and low over the Garden State Parkway at mile marker
56. I looked out my driver's side window and saw what I thought
was a plane coming over the tree line. It was triangle shaped
UFO and had red lights under it with a green glow to it. It was
not more than 100 feet above the road and going slow with no
noise or vibration at all. I slowed to about 40 miles an hour
and watched it take off to our right. We then noticed a
red/pinkish circle in the distance that the first object was
heading towards now at a very high speed. The triangle object
seemed to disappear as soon as it got to the circle object,
because we did not see it anymore. Then the circle object shot
across the sky heading west to east at a blinding rate of speed
and could barely be seen. It then headed back towards the west
and disappeared.

STAFFORD FORGE - Another witness reports, "A triangle craft was
going across the Parkway very low, and slow at 9:25 PM on May
14, 2000. There was no noise. It had non-blinking red lights
underneath with a yellow/green glow to the rest of it.  The
triangle speeded up heading for a hovering red circle like
object in the distance. The triangle then seemed to disappear
into the red object. The red circular object then shot across
the sky back to where we first saw the triangle. It then flew
almost out of sight and within seconds back again to where we
were. The police were contacted but said they had no reports
from other people. Editors Note: Tuckerton and Stafford Forge
are only five miles apart; apparently, two separate sets of
witnesses noticed the craft. Union Beach is sixty miles to the
north also near the coast. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director of
the National UFO Reporting Center, www.UFOcenter .com.

BILL BEAN POSSIBLE IMPLANTS?

A possible implant found in Bill Bean was recently analyzed by
Derrel Simms and his colleagues. The chip after being opened
appears to display integrated circuitry. In their opinion, the
chip is a device for thought manipulation and serves as a
monitoring device that would let the Government know when UFOs
and ETs were in proximity of the implanted individual. If you
would like to see a photo of the implant, go to www.alienhunter.
Thanks to Bill Bean. Editor's Note: Bill Bean regularly takes
amazing videos of UFOs in the Baltimore, Maryland area.

SOUTH CAROLINA SPHERE

GILBERT COUNTY -- Josh Matthews reports two witnesses saw a
sphere shaped object on May 3, 2000, at 2:30 AM for about seven
minutes. I had been walking along one of my grandmother's forest
trails along with my girlfriend after a party. As we came upon a
graveyard area, I heard a faint whirring sound, like a flute or
a whistle of some type. I glanced up and saw a spherical shaped
disc that had a band or a disc that surrounded it, and spun
around in random patterns. This fairly large spherical shaped
object came above our heads, with a band, or a ring surrounding
it, that swirled heavily around with several bright colored
lights on it. We stood in awe as the object hovered for five
minutes, and then whirled away to the north.  I believe that it
was something not of this world. Thanks to Larry Clark
www.nymufon.org and Josh Matthews twistedphreek@yahoo.com

FLORIDA LOZENGE SHAPED LIGHT

BRADENTON -- Chip Eggerton writes, "I was talking to a fellow
nurse this afternoon, who reports to me that late Friday night
May 12, or early Saturday morning, around 1:30 AM she awakened
and looked out over an area of wetlands near her subdivision.
She saw an absolutely still and silent distinct, orange, capsule
or lozenge shaped light hovering. It was seen to fade out and
then reappear at least one cycle. She was convinced it was not
any conventional craft. It left her feeling 'obsessed' to see it
again and she's gotten up several nights since, but has not seen
it again. She lives about a mile east of I-75 off State Route
70. Thanks Chip Eggerton REggerton a bunch

ILLINOIS FLYING TRIANGLE

EDINBURG -- On May 7, 2000, I observed a triangular object in
the eastern night sky at 10:12 PM passing north to south. It was
about 100 feet isosceles triangle. There was no noise and the
craft appeared to be moving very slowly and very low. I observed
the craft for about five minutes.

CHICAGO - False radar images have been popping up on the screens
of O'Hare International Airport's air traffic controllers,
forcing pilots to take sudden turns unnecessarily, the Chicago
Sun Times reported in Sunday's May 21, editions. At least a
dozen ghost planes" have been reported during the last few
weeks, the newspaper said, citing documents from the Terminal
Radar Approach Control Center in Elgin, and interviews with
controllers. Controllers said that at least a few times, they
have ordered pilots to take sudden turns to avoid what appeared
to be planes on their radar, potentially putting passengers at
risk. Editor's Note: It's interesting that some ground observers
are also reporting UFOs in the general area. While I was in the
Air Force, London Control asked us to intercept a UFO. We were
able to get a large radar return on our airborne radar and pick
up its lights visually. There are unidentified aircraft in our
skies causing a traffic safety hazard that should be
investigated by the authorities. When we call air traffic
centers to confirm the UFO reports they are instructed to deny
all radar correlation's even to airborne aircraft. Fortunately,
they will direct aircraft out of harms way.

MINNESOTA FLYING TRIANGLE

RANDLE - On May 13, 2000, a large dark triangle was observed
against the clouds with deep five minutes and then seemed to
land east of the highway. I rolled down the windows to listen,
but there was no sound. It moved very slowly, and had to be
about 1,000 to 2,000 feet in width. Thanks to NUFORC
www.ufocenter .com.

MISSOURI FLYING TRIANGLE

INDEPENDENCE -- On May 13, 2000, two witnesses observed a dark
triangle with about eight landing lights spanning about
one-third of the way back of each leading edge at 10:00 PM. They
had the object in sight heading east for eight seconds. It was
silent but they could hear a faint aircraft sound far to
southwest. Witness #1 is an ex Kansas City Aviation Department
employee who has flown small aircraft. The object flew at about
stall speed, but the witnesses had no visual reference to
determine its altitude or speed. He felt, if they were observing
landing lights, he would guess its altitude was 3,000 feet and
the object to be about the size of a 707 commercial four engine
jet aircraft. Witness #2 has seen stealth bombers in the air
many times when he worked at Whiteman Air Force Base. He says,
"This the object was not a stealth bomber!" NUFORC note from
Peter Davenport: We highlight this case because we spoke at
length with the witness, who is quite experienced in the
aviation field. He is quite familiar with all types of aircraft,
and he reports that the object witnessed was like no aircraft he
has ever witnessed before. Editor's Note: Ninety minutes later,
a similar craft was sighted over Minnesota.

OKLAHOMA HAS TWO UFO SIGHTINGS

YUKON -- S. Ritter a MUFON Field Investigator reports that on
May 20, 2000, "My husband and I were walking outside and noticed
a yellowish-glowing light moving out of the northwest, angling
towards the southeast." We watched it for at least 2 to 3
minutes until it slowly faded out at 9:50 PM as we were
observed. We were looking for some kind of navigational lights
that planes have, but there were not any. It was as bright as
Jupiter and it was a quarter inch long at arm's length. Five
minutes later my husband was watching a satellite traveling in a
southeast direction when all of a sudden, an unidentified flying
object appeared to dart across the path of the satellite at a
right angle. The light trail from the object was in a forward
motion, not blinking, but emitting forward pulses of light as it
traveled in a northerly direction and disappeared. Thanks to S.
Ritter of Yukon. Bbbritter

CALIFORNIA FLYING TRIANGLE

CARPINTERIA -- On May 8, 2000, I witnessed a black triangular
craft fly over our house near the coast three times in the
course of about a half an hour starting at 10:00 PM. My father
saw it first, and called me outside. After waiting for a couple
of minutes, it showed up again, cruising slowly and silently,
directly over the house. The object was about five hundred feet
high, and I could see its structure. There were lights along the
two leading edges, and the back was slightly inverted. I would
estimate that the object was about 300 feet across. After we
lost sight of it, we waited, and it returned directly over us
within five minutes, this time headed in the opposite direction
as if it had made a U turn. We waited again, and ten minutes
later we saw it make a turn towards Foothill Mountains. It
usually flies over from 9:45 to about 10:30 PM on clear nights
and comes directly over our house. It seems to want to make
contact of some sort. Last year around this time of year, the
same thing was happening. My father works for the county of
Santa Barbara, and I'm a junior at Carpinteria High School, 16
years old. We'll keep you updated. Thanks to NUFORC
www.ufocenter .com.


CANADA FLYING TRIANGLE

KAMLOOPS, BRITISH COLUMBIA -- On May 8, 2000, I was sitting at
my friend's back porch in Juniper having two cans of beer with
my girl friend when we noticed a large triangular object
hovering in the mountains about six kilometers away. We called
in my buddy and the three of us watched it for about five
minutes when it separated into four triangular shaped craft.
These craft had a light on each side and a big one in the
middle. It appeared they emitted an aura that was darkest at the
lights and the brightest around the ship. This aura changed
color, when the lights changed color. Then at the same time a
really powerful strobe light lit up the mountains for a few
seconds. The ships formed into one object, shot up into the sky,
and disappeared at 9:05 PM. A similar craft was seen on May 6 at
9:18 PM hovering low over another witness's home with a giant
white light in the middle that shown down on the witness. Thanks
to NUFORC and Peter Davenport.

FILER'S FILES #19, ABDUCTEES REPORT SIMILAR AILMENTS

MUFON Maryland State Director, Bruce Maccabee, Ph.D., an e-mail
commenting on last weeks Filer's Files discussion that many
abductees have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Fibromalgia and
similar yuppie type diseases." Robin an abductees reported
abductees suffer from several similar ailments that usually
involve severe fatigue and pain. Taking magnesium according to
England's University of Southampton helps CFS and possibly
Epstein Barr. Most of the diseases are relatively new.
Admittedly, we have very sketchy evidence to date, but many of
the abductee ailments point to weak immune systems that seemed
to first develop about 1950, the time of the first UFO waves. We
do know that UFO propulsion systems develop massive
electromagnetic effects that could cause weaknesses in the human
immune system.

Dr. Maccabee writes that from listening to Dr. Gabriel Merkin, a
doctor in the Washington. DC area who is on the radio and
publishes a monthly newsletter, I have learned that
"fibromyalgia" is a complex, medical sounding term for "we don't
really know what the problem is."  He claims that long term use
of antibiotics can sometimes or often cure the problem because
it is caused by an infection.  Merkin says that there are
bacteria that cause known diseases which, however, cannot be
cultured. The newly discovered "nanobacteria" could also be
involved. Thus, if a test is made there may be no positive
result of the attempt at culture and no causative agent
discovered. Yet. Long-term use of antibiotics can cure the
problem. (Note: he was on the forefront of cure of stomach
problems with antibiotics long before the gastroenterologists
agreed or "admitted" that a bacterium caused most ulcers.) He
claims that some arthritis can be cured by antibiotics. Anyway,
he probably would suggest something to take for several months
or maybe up to a year. Main point: If this ladies "fibromyalgia"
is actually caused by an infection one can raise the question,
do some abductees contract illness from contact or close\
association with ET's? And, if so, do ET's contract illnesses
from us? Your comment about the immune system is well taken. The
"quality" of any persons immune system depends upon his/her
state of health, both physically and mentally. It could be that
some abductees contract "ET diseases" (or diseases associated
with ET contact) because their immune systems happen to be at a
low point at the time of contact. Worth looking into! Thanks to
Bruce Maccabee brumac@compuserve.com.

Len Kasten writes that the fact that people suffering from these
ailments have low magnesium does not necessarily imply that the
low magnesium is causing the symptoms. What it does imply is
that they are perhaps infected with a microorganism that is
magnesium dependent, and that sucks up all the available
magnesium in their blood, and thereby puts them into a low
magnesium state. It just happens that some of the new emerging
viruses are magnesium dependent, according to Dr. Len Horowitz
in his book "Emerging Viruses." Under these conditions, to take
magnesium supplements is simply to feed these organisms. This
situation requires further study. Thanks to Len Kasten
sevstar@gte.net

Robin writes, "God bless you George for including me in your
newest file. Maybe the world will hear and maybe there is hope
for people who have been ABDUCTED. You George are an angel for
us. You are the light at the end of the dark tunnel. Although I
am an abductee, I NEVER gives up hope. Hope is what leads to
faith and faith to belief. We are justified by Faith and Saved
by Grace. God has a plan, you know. I believe no matter what has
happened to me that God is in charge. It is what keeps me going
from day to day with all the suffering I endure. May God's grace
be forever upon you. Thanks to Robin

Richard M. McVannel writes: George, I have just read the item in
your Filer's Files #19 from Robin. I too, suffered for nearly a
year before I was released by my doctor with Epstein Barr virus
associated with mononucleosis (mono). It took nearly three weeks
for a diagnosis and in the mean time I looked like a banana,
even the whites of my eyes. I was told that the virus is
associated with third world countries and was questioned to no
end about my contact outside the US and/or people from a third
world country. Of course neither of these applied. My wife and I
discussed the possibility of abduction and the contact that may
have occurred at that time. I am an abductee. I have had
abductions since I was a small child, and have conscience recall
of the earlier episodes. The abductions I have recall of have
all been friendly, and not the usual type associated with
violence. What is so unusual is that it is not very common for
one to contract a virus like Epstein Barr. It can attach itself
to any number of fatal diseases and I was told I was very lucky
that I only had the mono. Therefore, our conclusion is that I
contracted the virus during an abduction experience. Further, my
wife and I attended the MUFON International Symposium in Grand
Rapids that year, and when we returned home it was miserably
hot. We turned our ceiling fans on for the night and went to
bed. In the morning the fans were off when we awoke. Neither of
us had been awake or up in the night and didn't even stir until
the alarm went off Monday morning. This is unusual also, since
either one or both of us are up during night, every night. About
10 days later, my wife came down with a flu like illness, so I
finally took her to the doctor.

What we found out was startling. She had another virus similar
to the Epstein Barr, but not as dangerous. What she had could
not have been contracted from me, per the doctor. (What she had,
only about 1% of the world population has contracted, but is
suspected in about 10%) Also at that time they did an ultra
sound on her internal organs and everything was normal. This was
early August. In November she had a gull bladder attack,
followed by a more severe attack the middle of December. The
doctors told her that the gull bladder had to be removed before
it ruptured. When the gull bladder was removed, it was shriveled
and full of stones. Remember now that back in July, this was a
normal gull bladder with no stones. The only possibility the
doctor could come up with was that she was pregnant, as this
only occurs in pregnant women or those that have just given
birth. Now, we all know that my wife cannot get pregnant, so
what other explanation is there? Our answer is abductions.
Needless to say, I was elated to see my thoughts confirmed by
someone else, that abductions are involved in these strange
illnesses. I would appreciate other reports of this nature and
contact by those who have had this experience. I can be reached
at e-mail rmm@freeway.net. Sincerely, Richard M. McVannel State
Director, Michigan Mutual UFO Network, Inc.

ITALY UNDER MUSSOLINI STUDIED UFOs

Last week Italian national TV station RAI DUE the show 'I fatti
voostri' broad cast a show about UFOs in Italy prior to World
War II. On the show were two Italian Ufologists, the editors of
the magazine "UFO notizziario" (UFO messenger). They discussed
the connection between Fascist leader Benito Mussolini and
UFO's. Back in 1933, Mussolini had gathered together scientists
headed by G. Marconi and maybe formed the first worldwide secret
organization for exploration of the UFO phenomena. The
organization was active from 1933 to 1940 and they gathered many
documents and pictures. Ufologists showed two telegrams from
1933, where Mussolini is ordered censorship of UFO data and the
releasing of any UFO information. Mussolini especially forbid
the spreading of information about a UFO landing near Milano
(??). They discussed a remarkable speech Mussolini gave in 1941,
before the US became involved in World War II. Italy and joined
with Hitler and Germany and wanted to keep the US our of the
war. Mussolini said, "The US should care more about attack from
an extraterrestrial civilization which could land on Earth in
the craft that people have never seen, than about the Axis
forces." At that time, that speech had not been understood as a
serious one. In the show, the pictures, films and other
documents were shown. An Italian fighter plane intercepted an
UFO between Ravenna and Rome in August of 1936. There was a
multiple UFO sighting of a cigar and two discs over Mestre and
Venice. Mussolini gave all the documents to German experts.
Thanks to AGETI_USENET_OP Dario B. Phaeton
dario.bernobic@ri.tel.hr #interview #ufo TRANSLATED BY: Giuliano
Marinkovicc (AGETI_MASTER) Analytical Group for
Extra-Terrestrial Information

NORIO HAYAKAWA UPCOMING PEOPLE'S RALLY IN NEVADA

People's Rally will held in Nevada, near AREA 51 (Groom Lake)
will take place on Tuesday morning, June 6, 2000, beginning at
6:00 AM right at the restricted boundary line on Groom Lake Road
in Lincoln County. Anywhere from 250 to 300 concerned citizens
are expected to attend this year's People's Rally at Area 51 in
Nevada. The Area 51 People's Rally was started by Norio Hayakawa
in 1998 to protest the secrecy around Area 51 and the violation
of environmental and other laws, which may have led to the death
of several former workers.  Hayakawa has passed on his Area 51
mission to Joerg Arnu the webmaster of "Dreamland Resort".
http://www.dreamlandresort.com, Groom51S4

SPECIAL OFFER for readers of "Filer's Files" Camelot Computers
is offering a one year free domain name with a year of web
hosting. Prices for hosting start as low as $9.99 a month.
Camelot can get your site off the drawing board. Visit them at
www.camelotcomputers.com or contact Webmaster. Website dealing
with the paranormal is our specialty. Chuck Warren, Camelot
Computers, Web Development Director, www.camolotcomputers.com

SPECIAL NEW JERSEY UFO VIDEO FOOTAGE of strange objects building
and moving in the sky taken by Reverend Damion Barna. Only
$25.00 SPACE SHUTTLE FOOTAGE: There is a great deal of
speculation about UFOs being seen from the space shuttle. Decide
for yourself, Jeff Chandler has put together raw video footage
of the NASA downloads. Learn exactly what is ice crystals and
camera smudges? You can decide for yourself. Jeff gives pointers
on how to look for UFOs versus the standard excuses. This is raw
footage but well worth seeing. Only $25.00. PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET
of some of the best UFO shots available and data on their
propulsion systems by US Navy Commander Graham Bethune.. $10.00.
Send check or money order to G. Filer 222 Jackson Road, Medford,
New Jersey 08055

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I
recommended you for membership. Filer's Files is Copyrighted
2000 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post
items from the Files on their Web Sites provided that they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date
of issue that the item appeared. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name, address, or story confidential.








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                    Re: TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.22.00

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:25:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:14:02 -0400
Subject: Re: TMP News: Weekly Briefing 5.22.00


TMP NEWS
The E-News Service of The Millennium Project

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

May 22, 2000

_____________________________



WEEKLY BRIEFING
A Weekly Summary of Current and Breaking News Stories and Reports

5.22.00



The ground-breaking French COMETA military report on UFOs
finally made it to the mainstream US media this week, with an
excellent report in The Boston Globe. (About time, in your
editor's humble opinion!) Also, eight more extra-solar planets
have been added to the list by astronomers. Such discoveries are
now becoming routine. As well, several new chemtrail- related
reports, including a link to the Welsbach patent calling for the
spraying / seeding of the atmosphere for the reduction of global
warming, and a new report from an airline mechanic on strange
goings-on at major airports, either or both of which may be at
least part of the answer to the chemtrail controversy.

These and other reports below...

Note: Subscription requests for this news update service are
sometimes being received without specifying "subscribe TMP
News". Please note that as I run a similar mailing list for
Circles Phenomenon Research Canada (CPR- Canada News),
subscription requests MUST include "subscribe TMP News", as
outlined in the subscribe / unsubscribe instructions at the end
of this e-mail (or "subscribe CPR-Canada News" for that list for
example, or at least specify which list you are wanting to be
added to in your message). If a request simply states "please
add me to your list" or similar, for example, I do not always
know which mailing list you are requesting. Please submit
requests according to these guidelines to ensure you are quickly
added to the list without delay. Thank you! - Paul Anderson,
editor.


Stunning French COMETA UFO Report Finally Makes Major US
Newspaper

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/cometareport.html


Report on the Second Annual Intruders Foundation UFO Abduction
Conference

http://community-2.webtv.net/HEgeln/SPACESearchProject/page9.html


Astronomers Find Eight More Planets Orbiting Distant Stars

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/eightplanets.html


SETI@home Achieves 2 Million Mark by First Birthday

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/setibirthday.html


The Coso Artifact - Evidence of Ancient Advanced Technology?
http://www.eskimo.com/~pierres/coso/cosopreview.html

META Research: Preliminary Search for Ruin-Like Formations on the Moon

http://www.astrosurf.com/lunascan/arkhipov2.htm


Chemtrail Patent?: Stratospheric Welsbach Seeding for the
Reduction of Global Warming

http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05003186__


Chemtrails: Did an Airline Mechanic Stumble Upon the Truth?

http://www.sightings.com/general/stumble.htm


New Chemtrail Photos from England

http://www.sightings.com/general/ukhit.htm


'Snake-Like' Chemtrail Photographed Over California

http://www.sightings.com/general/chemsnake.htm


Prince Charles Warns Scientists of Environmental Disaster

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa/pricecharles.html


'Sue', the Biggest T. Rex Makes Her Public Debut

http://CNN.com/2000/NATURE/05/17/museum.sue.02/index.html


_____________________________


See also the TMP web site for complete listings of news stories,
reports and related information and links:

http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


TMP News is the electronic news service of The Millennium
Project, providing weekly briefings of the latest relevant news
stories and reports, as well as information and updates on
TMP-related news and events. TMP News is edited by Paul Anderson
and published by TMP, and is available free by subscription; to
be added to or removed from the mailing list, send your request,
including "subscribe TMP News" or "unsubscribe TMP News" and
e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

THE MILLENNIUM PROJECT

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC   V6J 1J4   Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://persweb.direct.ca/psa

_____________________________


� The Millennium Project, 2000












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                             Alien Hypothesis...

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:22:14 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:29:08 -0400
Subject: Alien Hypothesis...


Dear EBK, Listers and Tail Twisters

I offer a hypothesis; for the UFO conundrum. Short, relatively
harmless and strictly my own. Not being a researcher, in truth,
not having spent months pouring thru FOIA boxes, replete with
radioactive kaka, book worms and smelly, yellowing (but well
blacked out) paper, I have not had the pleasure of doing the
grunt research.

There is too much evidence _for_ the existence of UFOs in our
atmosphere and outside of it to merely throw aside with a simple
swamp gas, planet Venus and weather balloon excuses. Further,
there is the evidence of credible witnesses other than myself.
Third, there is the evidence within my memory. Lotsa that. There
is the evidence of photos, videos et al. Can't forget Al.

OK, on the assumption there are UFOs, and they've been around
for quite some time; perhaps eons, then why the secrecy? Maybe
Roswell was real. Other landings or crashes also, real. Maybe
the Goobers in Goobermint have managed somehow, to keep the
world's most exciting and (potentially) wonderful news a secret
all these years. Say, for the sake of this hypothesis, such is
true. Then why the secrecy? Why the conspiracies to withhold?

Perhaps we _have_ made a deal with the alien beings. If sci-fi
is legit in the caveat precluding premature contact and
interference with a species, then maybe this is the reason.
There are good reasons, other than this, to hold out on the
world and it's citizens. Among these are that during the cold
war, in 1947, the government decided to keep the secret of alien
hardware to itself. This, in the hope of procuring for itself, a
giant leap in technology. Perhaps, though, as many say, the
technology was too much for us to back engineer, except in the
most (to the alien) mundane levels.

And so a deal was struck. Aliens want to play their games of
interfering and poking into our genes for whatever purpose(s).
They do not want to break to prime directive, at least not to
the world's citizenry. We are not ready. Supposedly. And not
terribly far advanced to interpret or build the kind of hardware
we may have recovered.

So, the answer, to hike up our skirts and make a deal. We get to
play with the toys we've "captured." We get the protection of
alien species' technology in terms of comets, asteroids and
their ilk (note the seeming lack of concern and spending on such
projects to keep us safe from such a definite possibility ...
"Yee shall not know the hour, nor the day!"), and get to keep
the civilization going, such as it is. Aliens get to play with
our body fluids and keep their games going, we get to stay away
from their bases which personally, I believe to be the moon and
perhaps Mars, and do our exploration elsewhere.

A perfect relationship. Just don't let the people know what's
goin on.

Jim Mortellaro








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   May > May 23

                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Daniel D. Moroff <smoothie7@home.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:31:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:01:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:50:52 -0400
 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:06:58 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>John,

 >>Why, questions like who was head of Disney are the smaller
 >>research trifles when you consider the bigger question of a book
 >>about AA. :)

 >>What I want to know is how difficult is it to email or call
 >>Disney public affairs (or the whatever they call it) and ask
 >>them?

<snip>

 >Out of curiousity (just to see how much trouble it would be)
 >I've emailed one of their contacts and posed Philip's question
 >to them to see how they respond. I suspect that the query will
 >be forwarded up the food chain to someone who can reply, but
 >that will likely take a number of days.

<snip>


Steve

I answered this one a few days ago. Perhpas they don't answer
their phones but the do have a website. You can go to:

www.disney.com

I'm certain the have a place to send requests.

Dan









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:05:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:10:26 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:45:02 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:33:35 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:15:12 -0500
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Previously, I wrote the following:

 >>Take for instance the work of the Lydecker brothers during the
 >>30's 40's and 50's in Hollywood. They shot all their stuff using
 >>models out in normal daylight and it looked so real as to be
 >>undetectable to most audiences. In fact, they were once up for
 >>an Academy Award but were denied because the Academy thought the
 >>shots the brothers claimed were SFX shots were real! It was the
 >>ultimate backhanded compliment. Likewise, I am sure you've seen
 >>their work in countless old movies and was never the wiser. What
 >>did they do before going to Hollywood? They were just dumb old
 >>farmers working for their dumb old farmer dad.

To which Bruce replied:

 >Yers, but I bet they spent some time "improving" their
 >photographic and "simulation" (with models) skills before taing
 >on Hollywood. I saw some UFO film by "plain old famers" in West
 >Virginia some years ago. I recall one section of film
 >photograped at an airfield. A large 40 years ago passenger
 >airplane landed in th fields and was immediately followed by a
 >flying saucer that came "swinging" into the picture. Unlike the
 >Lydecker brothers who "convinced" early movie audiences, this
 >film wouldn't make anything but maybe an Ed Wood movie. The
 >pendulum motion of the saucer was obvious. IT swung back and
 >forth. Also, it was OUTSIDE the fence around the airport and
 >much smaller than the fence... yet it was supposedly a large
 >saucer following the plane.

What has this got to do with anything?

It seems to be your position that because you or people you've
seen can't produce simple, believable effects that it is,
therefore, impossible. Is your position regarding your analysis
so weak that it is imperative that the subjects MUST be idiots?
And besides, you know very well that faking a shot for motion
pictures is much harder than faking one for stills. None the
less, the techniques are simple and straight forward and work
even better for still shots.

Moving on, I wrote:

 >>Man, you must really think the Trents were stupid!

 >You got it, man!

What's the deal, Bruce? This is the same angle you used on Ed
regarding the Gulf Breeze photos. The subject, in your opinion,
is too simple minded to fool you. Is that about it?

I've asked this question before:

Is it your position that all fraud is detectable and, if not
detected, then doesn't exist?

Continuing, Bruce offered:

 >Hartmann offered reasons to reject the rotating (thrown) object
 >hypothesis. You say "I see no reason.." OK, Then,
 >explain why Hartmann's reasons are bas/incorrect/not worth
 >a plugged saucer.

First off, The photos are far too soft to determine with any
certainty whether rotation was present or not (as if that
mattered, anyway). To imply otherwise is wishful thinking.

Second, the photos are far to soft to detect a thread, if one
was even necessary. To imply otherwise is wishful thinking.

Third, the object is in a different place from one photo to the
next. This makes triangulation and distance estimates
impossible. To imply otherwise is wishful thinking.

Fourth, determining distance by judging luminance levels in a
photo is about an inch short of a guess even under the best of
circumstances; knowing the reflective values of the object,
lighting conditions, etc. Since the object is unavailable,
analysis is nothing but a guess. To imply otherwise is wishful
thinking.

Finally, Bruce wrote:

 >But condescension or lack of same isn't the point. The point
 >is... can anyone cm up with solid reasons to believe the
 >pictures are a hoax.

Actually, Bruce, the point is just the opposite. I'd LIKE to
believe the Trent photos are real. But the evidence presented
doesn't convince me one way or the other for reasons that I
believe are obvious to the casual observer. Suggesting that the
casual observer isn't smart enough to understand you or your
conclusions is the very definition of condescension.

Again, I'd like to believe the Trent photos are real; but not at
the sacrifice of my own common sense. As far as I'm concerned,
there isn't enough data to determine whether or not they are
real or fake. But most importantly, and this is the point of
this discussion, portraying the Trents as "dumb" doesn't tip the
scales in favor of authenticity. It simply makes you look
overzealous and defensive about your own analysis.

Later,

Roger







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:34:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:13:07 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:49:01 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:10:28 -0500
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:43:31 -0500
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>


Dear Bruce,

I find it amazing that each time we celebrate the anniversary of
a classic UFO event, (in this case, the McMinnville photos),
this seems to somehow invoke skeptics and debunkers, who will do
or say anything in an attempt to discredit what is, to me, one
of the best photographic cases ever. I wonder which case will
be celebrated next, or more to the point, put on the chopping
block, so that the skeptics can take a crack at it!?  Please
respond.

Cordially,

Michel M. Deschamps
UFO Eyewitness/Researcher/Historian









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:53:50 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:15:55 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:45:02 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:33:35 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:15:12 -0500
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >The point s... can anyone cm up with solid reasons to believe the
 >pictures are a hoax.

Internal inconsistency between the Trent stories and the
pictures for the following possible reasons:

1) A change in shadow angle of about 3 degrees between pictures,
suggesting that a morning rising Sun created the shadows. This
would call into question the time between pictures (15-20
minutes intend of seconds as claimed), and the evening time for
the pictures.

2) The change in size of the object was slightly greater than
the change in size of the distance between the wires, suggesting
the object was at the same distance from the wires, not a
distant moving object, although a distant object could have also
been coincidentally moving at a speed and direction which would
have created this change.

Internal inconsistencies between various versions of the Trent's
stories:

1) Differences in the stories the Trent's told in 1950 as
published in two newspapers.

2) Differences in the claimed number of deceased people who had
also seen the object during the famous incident but had never
revealed this publicly, as recorded during interviews conducted
by Bruce Maccabee with Mrs. Trent.

Bob Young








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 02:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:19:35 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:47:51 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:54:16 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:42:28 +0200
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:26:05 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Glob

<snip>

 >If Trent was so damn clever and methodical in devising a hoax,
 >as you seem to maintain, then why would he be so stupid as to
 >include the overhead suspension wires in his photos?

David, Asgeir, List:

He wouldn't have to have been stupid, since the pictures showed
no thread. If they had, he wouldn't have told anybody about them.

 >The major problems with any model theory remains:

 >1. The bright shadowed bottom that is "whiter than white",
 >readily explainable by atmospheric haze of a distant object, but
 >requiring some sort of elaborate hoax hypothesis if up close.

Robert Sheaffer experimentally showed that this could have been
created by a dirty camera lens. Condon investigator William K.
Hartmann later agreed with this.

 >2. The difference in size between the two photos that cannot be
 >simply explained as a difference in distance from where the
 >photos were taken.

Yes it could when the wires are used as a reference. A possible
explanation would be the slightly larger size of the model in
the first picture because of its being closer to the camera,
being suspended below the wires.

<snip>

 >3. The elevation angles match exactly with the size difference
 >of a distant object moving away in level flight.

Or an object which is further away from the camera in the second
picture?

 >5. There is no visible rotation between shots, virtually ruling
 >out a single-point suspension model.

How, if the model wasn't made to spin?

 >6. The edge-on profile in photo 2 and the bottom-showing profile
 >in photo 1 must be replicated along with everything else.

Replicated from what?

<snip>

 >Now "compute" the odds of Trent getting all the subtle details
 >in the photos just right and also making it agree exactly with
 >the story they told. These odds are truly long, very long.

What if only one detail is shown to be inconsistent with the
story told by the witnesses? What if this is a demonstrated time
of 15-20 minutes between pictures that were supposed to have
been taken within seconds? And what if another detail shows that
the picture was taken at another time of day than the witness
story? And what if these two details are in fact key objections
in the 25-year controversy surrounding these pictures?

What do you think the odds would be that these two incongruous
details would not be included on your list?

Clear skies,

Bob Young









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   May > May 23

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:40:57 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:23:54 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:25:50 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:42:28 +0200
 >>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >>2. http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m14-014.shtml
 >>(one of my prior emails, dated 14 May; I did measure the
 >>relative locations/positions of some of the bush/tree "branches"
 >>of the tree/bush as seen at the house to the left on the two
 >>photos, and I found no indications of any wind gusts from the
 >>saucer had exposed these branches; they were in the same
 >>horizontal/vertical positions when the object shows it's bottom
 >>towards the camera.)

 >Any wind gust as the object accelerated away would have occurred
 >_after_ the second photo.

 >>My conclusions based upon all of the emails in this thread by
 >>now, is therefore that:

 >>1(a). The object is a "model saucer" suspended from a thin, but
 >>relatively long, strong, steel string (thin enough to not being
 >>seen on the photos), attached to the object's
 >>superstructure/antenna - being close to the photographer - and
 >>it IS a hoax.

 >Well, if a hoax and in the morning the supposed steel wire would
 >not have been shiny... otherwise would have a sun glint
 >somwhere along the wire (much more likely a thread... probably
 >white). Still need to explain the excessive brightness of the
 >image of the bottom of the object if only abou 16 ft away.

 >>1(b). The object is a "model saucer" thrown into the air - two
 >>times after each other (of course, they could have practiced
 >>many times before taking the two photos) - and without any
 >>rotation (you don't need to throw it like a frisbee) - by a
 >>person standing behind the house to the left (or even standing
 >>at a higher point, throwing/dropping it down) - and it IS a
 >>hoax. (The camera's shutter speed could be held relatively high;
 >>@ 1/250?).

 >Sorry. Camera shutter fixed at 1/50 sec. Hartmann studied this
 >aspect carefully and concluded to evidence of rotation.

 >>3. The object is a real aircraft (most likely experimental),
 >>civilian or military, american or forreign, piloted on-board, or
 >>remotely piloted (maybe the explanation for the off-centered
 >>"antenna"?) - and it's NOT a hoax. (Though a military/civilian
 >>- apparently - noiseless, disc shaped aircraft from 1950 seems
 >>"highly unlikely" - even experimental.)

 >Can't imagine what circular Top Secret craft would have been
 >near McMinnville at that time.

 >>4. The object is a _real_ UFO (remotely piloted or not.....) -
 >>and it's NOT a hoax.
 >The only conclusion that does not conflict with other
 >evidence. :)

 >>These 4 possible explanations are ranked according to my
 >>personal, subjective judgement. (Explanation no. 4 should have
 >>about the same occurrence probability as a person being hitten
 >>by a small meteorite or some space junk, I believe, or maybe 10,
 >>100 or more times less than that....)

 >People _have_ been hit!

Hi Bruce,

I don't know why you bother to argue with these characters when
they propose such simple-minded nonesense as explanations. None
of what Asgeir offers gells with the known character and
intelligence of the witnesses, the post history of the photos
[i.e. lack of interest by the Trents], the equipment used to
take the photos and the quality of the photos themselves.

As for Roger Evans arguments based on what two SFX experts did
in the fifties could be a basis for what the Trents
accomplished, because they both had the same background, that
falls apart. The Trents didn't study photography and the art
thereof. So the Lydecker brothers were farmers originally. Then
they studied photography, became experts, then were hired by a
producer to do a job. They weren't hired off the street to do
SFX. And using a blue thread to match the sky..so what? It's
still going to show up as a black line against the lighter
background.

I'm in the business too. It ain't that easy, and the simplest
method doesn't always work. Matching a line against the sky
would have taken hours of hard work and experimentation -
getting the photos developed to check the results, then when
satisified leaving the negatives kicking around under the family
sofa until hopefully some newspaper reporter would come looking
for them someday. PLUS the Trents were geniuses for anticipating
technologies that would come along 50-60 years later, able to
detect said lines, so they prepared for that as well.Boy, these
people were sharp. As for the throw disc theory. Only two
attaempts and we're still trying to discount them nearly 60
years later.

It always amazes me how frightened people get by the possibility
of the unknown.

Don Ledger









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   May > May 23

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:58:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:25:12 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:45:02 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:15:12 -0500
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:49:01 -0400
 >>>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:43:47 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


Bruce,

 >But condescension or lack of same isn't the point. The point
 >is... can anyone come up with solid reasons to believe the
 >pictures are a hoax?

I'm afraid, my friend, that you're missing the point, which is
this:

Since UFOs don't or can't exist, you don't need evidence to
debunk the McMinnville photos.  You can theorize freely, without
any basis whatever, that the Trents were diabolically clever
souls who outwitted at least two generations of investigators
into (1) finding no telltale technical faults with the pictures
while (2) pretending -- not just to investigators like you, who
actually bothered to talk with them on a number of occasions,
but to their neighbors and fellow townsfolk -- that they were
simple, unsophisticated people who, in an even more diabolical
twist, didn't even believe they'd photographed anything more
than an experimental aircraft. And then -- even worse -- they
were so fiendishly clever that they made a point of not
profiting from their work.  I guess we can all be relieved that
persons of overarching evil genius chose to stay on this side of
the law.

Jerry Clark










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   May > May 23

                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: John Pierson <johnpierson@mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:27:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:27:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 04:45:58 +0100
 >From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
 >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>>Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Can anyone tell me how I can get other people to do all my
 >>>research for me without paying them anything?


Sure. Become an expert and pretend to have all the answers.
Then even if you don't, you will have enough for a book.


John








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:36:15 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:15:12 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:59:34 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:49:01 -0400
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:43:47 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Previously, I wrote:

 >>First, I am not promoting the theory that the Trents lied or
 >>hoaxed the photos in question.

You're not? Could have fooled most of us.

 >What I am saying is that Bruce is
 >a good technical investigator, but not a psychologist or FBI
 >trained "profiler". For him to make general observations about
 >the "intent" of the Trents as a form of support for his
 >technical analysis out of place.

Without making any judgments about intent, one can nonetheless
objectively test whether or not the Trents' story of what
happened tracks with physical details unearthed in the photos
through technical analysis. In point of fact the story _does_
track extremely well with the photos. The physical evidence in
the photos corroborates the testimony, and the testimony helps
authenticate the photos. No mindreading is required.

 >Sorry, Bruce, but you are wrong. Since I work in special effects
 >for a living, I can tell you that the simplest approach usually
 >achieves the most believable results.

This is just you speaking in generalities, like usual. Instead
of treating us to your typical "Hey anybody could do it
routine", why don't you take us through _in detail_ on how Trent
hoaxed the photos. Then there would actually be something to
discuss.

You must reproduce _every detail_ that is actually in the photos
in a straightforward way -- no highly implausible hoax
scenarios. And do try to give us at least halfway plausible
arguments that Trent would have had the foresight to anticipate
some of these details. Trent didn't have the 20-20 hindsight
that we have now after thousands of hours of scrutiny of the
photos.

While your at it, please also provide plausible scenario
explaining how the Trent's got their stories to be so consistent
with multiple subtle details in the photos.

 >Take for instance the work of the Lydecker brothers during the
 >30's 40's and 50's in Hollywood. They shot all their stuff using
 >models out in normal daylight and it looked so real as to be
 >undetectable to most audiences. In fact, they were once up for
 >an Academy Award but were denied because the Academy thought the
 >shots the brothers claimed were SFX shots were real! It was the
 >ultimate backhanded compliment. Likewise, I am sure you've seen
 >their work in countless old movies and was never the wiser. What
 >did they do before going to Hollywood? They were just dumb old
 >farmers working for their dumb old farmer dad.

How very interesting, but all it amounts to is another "any Hick
can outsmart Bruce Maccabee" comment.

Please demonstrate _in detail_ how Trent pulled it off.

 >Moving on, Bruce wrote:

 >If no evidence of fakery is found, then one can still ask "How
 >was it faked in such a way as to produce no evidence of the
 >fake?" An example of this might be the observation that IF it
 >was a photo if a model under the wire, then the lack of
 >detection of a suspension means that the thread was very tiny
 >and/or color matched to the background.

 >To intentionally pick a very fine thread might not take much
 >thought. To intentionally pick a thread color matched to the
 >background _would_ take some "thinking ahead" ("They are going
 >to examine these photos carefully for a thread so I'd better
 >take a precaution to be sure it can't be detected..... aha...
 >I'll pick a color that matches the background.")

<snip>

 >I guess the point is that the technical analysis deterimines
 >the tecnical difficulty of the photos.

 >Man, you must really think the Trents were stupid!

Another worthless "Any hick is smarter than Bruce Maccabee."

Let's take some other examples of where Trent would have needed
extraordinary luck or prescience to have pulled it off:

1. The bright shadowed bottom which fools us into thinking it's
a distant object with the shadow lightened by haze. The only
likely way to get the bottom that bright is to illuminate it
artificially. The only plausible suggestion I've ever heard to
do this was a flash bulb (or flood lights?). There is no
evidence that Trent ever had a flash attachment (how common were
they in 1950, especially among dirt poor farmers?). Why would he
bother to use one even if he had one (or flood lights for that
matter)? Would a flash even do the job in daylight and at the
distance Trent was at from the hypothetical model (a very
technical question).

2. Absence of rotation and expected motion blur. Virtually rules
out a tossed model (see below for more details) and limits a
hoax scenario to a suspended model. Absence of rotation and
apparent stability of sideways tilt suggests at least a 2 point
suspension system, not a single "thread." This limits the
freedom with which a model could swing, which makes it harder to
replicate some other details in the photos. E.g., how does one
account for the motion blur in photo 2 if the sideways movement
of the model is very restricted? Even if one doesn't so restrict
the motion, we get other problems, such as accounting for the
observed parallax shift and amount of sideways tilt -- see
below.

3. Trent's distances from a stationary suspended model cannot
account for the observed size difference in the object between
the two photos.  This is very important, since it seriously
compounds the difficulties in replicating the hoax. Trent had to
either swing the model or use two models to fully account for
the size change. The two -model theory strikes me as highly
implausible. Therefore Trent had to swing the model.

4. If he swings the model, then the amount of swing not only has
to properly replicate the observed size difference, but also has
to _simultaneously_ replicate the observed profiles, angles of
elevation, sideways tilt, and parallax shift. The model in photo
2 also has to be simultaneously swinging to the left to create
motion blur along the right edge. (This also raises the question
as to why the model would even be swung left when the natural
arc of swing is perpendicular to the overhead suspension wire. )

5. If the model is swinging left past the suspension point, it
might account for the parallax shift that seems to place the
crossover point of the lines-of-sight 2 feet in front of the
wire. Unfortunately this also has to be consistent with the
sidways tilt of the "model" in photo 2 which is _less_ than in
photo 1. Swinging upward to the left will on average increase
this sidways tilt, not decrease it as is needed -- oops!  The
amount of leftward swing would have to be a foot or more to
account for the parallax shift, which on average would increase
the sideways tilt 15 - 20 degrees, instead of decrease it by a
few degrees. Well maybe it "wobbled" a lot and "just right" --
yes maybe, but yet another example of Trent's luck in covering
his tracks.

6. The problem in 5 means the model in photo 2 probably would be
on a downward arc as it swings left, which unfortunately is
exactly the opposite of what is needed to solve the leftward
parallax shift problem of photo 2. Did I neglect to mention that
swinging the model in photo 2 backward to get it into profile
and try to solve the size problem also usually worsens the
parallax problem not to mention the elevation problem?

7. To try to solve the parallax problem, Trent would have to
consciously slide the model in photo 2 over to the left of its
original suspension point.

He would also probably have to drop it down slightly to solve
the elevation problem. This all seems very improbable to me. Why
would he bother to do any of this? The straightforward hoax
hypothesis would have him shoot photo 1, step 5 feet to his
right, have Mrs. Trent bang the model with a rake handle to get
it swinging perpendicular to the wire, shoot the model in its
edge-on profile view as it swung backwards, and be done.

8. Did I further neglect to mention that the actual parallax
shift observed matches exactly what would be expected of a
distant object moving due west? Is this just another example of
our hick farmer's extreme cleverness or luck?

9. Below I give a calculation of how the blurred right edge in
photo 2 leads to an estimate of the objects speed at a given
distance. This speed also leads to an estimate of the elapsed
time between photos (assuming a distant object), which by
another amazing "coincidence" agrees closely with Trent's
estimate of the elapsed time.

Boy, I tell you, that Trent sure had to cover a lot of angles to
fool us city slickers!

 >It doesn't
 >take a genius to figure out that the tread (if there was one)
 >would need to be the same color as the sky! (duh!)Likewise, it
 >doesn't take a genius to figure out that a thread wouldn't be
 >necessary at all if the object were simply thrown in the air.

Likewise it doesn't take a genius to figure out the extreme
improbability of an "object simply thrown in the air." However,
it _does_ take somebody willing to sit down with the photos and
study them a little bit. If you actually bothered to do that you
might quickly notice the following:

1. The absence or virtual absence of rotation of the object
between photo1 and photo as evidenced by the offset "knob" or
"tower" being in the same relative position.

2. The absence of predicted motion blur from a tossed object,
particularly in photo 1 (there is some apparent motion blur
along the right edge of the object in photo 2)

The two together essentially rule out a tossed model.

Regarding point 2, Trent was working with a camera that had a
fixed, slow shutter speed (1/50th of a second), so even slow
movement of a _small_ tossed object would translate into very
noticeable blur.

E.g., suppose it was one of Mrs. Trent's "pie pans." A typical
12" pie pan would have needed to be about 50 feet away to
produce the observed angular size of the object (and about 15 -
16 feet above the ground to produce the observed angular
elevation -- Mrs. Trent would have had to be standing on a roof
when she tossed it.)

Now suppose the "pie pan" was tossed at a very leisurely 5 mph
or 7.3 ft/sec. or 88 in/sec. In 1/50th of a second the "pie pan"
would have traveled 1.8 inches or 15% of the diameter of the
"pie pan."

So where's the rotation and where's the blur Mr. "it could have
been anything tossed in the air?"

Better stick to the model on a thread. It's a far more viable
hoax theory yet still has enormous difficulty in explaining the
actual photographic details.

Incidentally, the absence of blur in the first photo and
presence along the right edge of the object in the second photo
corresponds exactly with the Trents' story. The first photo was
taken when the object was banked towards them and relatively
motionless in the sky, and the second was taken with the object
starting to move rapidly away from them.

I guess those clever farmers examined the photos under a
microscrope, noticed the absence of blur in photo 1 and the
slight blur in photo 2, and then figured out a story that would
match these subtle details in the photos -- right Roger?

The blurred edge appears to be about 4% of the width of the
object.

If a 12 inch "pie pan", this corresponds to less than 1/2 inch
of motion or a equivalent speed of only 1.4 mph.

Some "tossed object!"

On the other hand, if the object was 1/2 mile away, it would
have been about 60 feet across and traveling about 100
feet/second or 70 mph, or similar to a car speeding down the
highway.

Trent said the object seemed to speed up as it moved away. If
one assumes the object, initially at a presumed 1/2 mile, had
constant acceleration and thus averaged half of its calculated
"blur speed" or 50 feet/sec, how long would it have taken to
move from position 1 to 2? Measuring the angle swing between
photo 1 and 2, one can calculate that the distance corresponded
to about 1200 feet. At 50 ft/sec, it would take about 24
seconds. Trent estimated 30 seconds elapsed between photos.

Again the story is remarkably consistent with the actual photo
details. Trent was one damned clever hoaxer!

See what can be deduced from a little thought and analysis?
Maybe you should try it instead of boring us with your religious
beliefs.

 >Regarding such, I wrote:

 >>Likewise, I see no reason why the disk in the Trent photos
 >>should be more than a hubcap or the such lobbed in the air for
 >>the shot.

You see no reason for a lot of things because you haven't done
your homework. If you still think that the disk could have been
nothing more than a tossed model, then please demonstrate for us
how it could have been "tossed" and yet remain consistent with
the actual photographic details.

The devil is in the details Roger. That's probably why you
scrupulously avoid them.

 >To which, Bruce replied:

 >If this is true, then you don't understand the analysis
 >presented by Hartmann in the Condon Report, nor do you
 >understand what I have written.

 >How condescending to suggest that because I don't agree with you
 >that I don't understand you or the Condon Report.

 >Also, how typical.

No, I think Bruce has you pegged exactly for what you are. You
are full of opinions but obviously have no grasp of the
important points.

David Rudiak









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   May > May 23

                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:53:57 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:03:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:27:36 -0500
 >From: John Pierson <johnpierson@mindspring.com>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 04:45:58 +0100
 >>From: Roy J Hale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
 >>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>>>Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Can anyone tell me how I can get other people to do all my
 >>>>research for me without paying them anything?

 >Sure. Become an expert and pretend to have all the answers.
 >Then even if you don't, you will have enough for a book.


Dear John, Roy, John, EBK and Lister Twisters,

John, you are absolutely correct. However I find it necessary to
provide you with just one or two slight course corrections. OK?

First, you've used the wrong word. It is not _expert_ it is
Ex-Spurt. Which is to say, "A has-been drip."

Second (hell Bubba, this is the most important factoid you will
ever learn), second, _always_ claim the following in one form or
another ... "Finally, the _TRUTH_ Revealed About..."

If you follow those rules, you will always sell books, be a real
Ex-Spurt and become known as the Mensche Capo di Tutti
Mensche Capos. It's how Gesundt made it in the UFO field.
It's how he managed to sell only _fresh_ wine when the world
was drinking that old crappola.

This message comes to you free, as a pubic service, public
service. John, consider yourself lucky, normally, I would have
charged a bloody fortune to some poor slob, but since you're
member... uh, since you are a member... sorry, of the world's
premier UFO list, I give this to you free. There is a small
catch, however. As the Senior Corlione would have said, "I may
aks you to retoine dis fava some day! Ma, Tu capeesh?"

Jim Mortellaro, Capo







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   May > May 23

                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:50:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:14:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:31:12 -0400
 >From: Daniel D. Moroff <smoothie7@home.com>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Steve

 >I answered this one a few days ago. Perhpas they don't answer
 >their phones but the do have a website. You can go to:

 >www.disney.com

 >I'm certain the have a place to send requests.

 >Dan

Dan-

Did exactly that when the question first came up. Unfortunately,
they don't have a simple "company" email address. They all
relate to tourist information or information on their films and
videos. In their response they provided a link to a corporate
information site, and if anyone is interested they can contact
me.

I have already replied directly to Philip with their full
response, but for the record - Michael Eisner was appointed the
head of Disney Corporation in 1984.

Steve

PS - I didn't charge anything for this simple information
request.








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:18:04 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 02:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:19:35 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:47:51 -0400 (EDT)
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:54:16 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:42:28 +0200
 >>>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:26:05 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Glob

 ><snip>

 >>If Trent was so damn clever and methodical in devising a hoax,
 >>as you seem to maintain, then why would he be so stupid as to
 >>include the overhead suspension wires in his photos?

 >David, Asgeir, List:

 >He wouldn't have to have been stupid, since the pictures showed
 >no thread. If they had, he wouldn't have told anybody about them.

If Trent was so intent on carrying out a hoax to the point of
carefully camouflaging a suspension thread, why would he leave
the means of suspension (i.e. the power lines) visible in the
photos ? All he had to do was reframe the pictures to eliminate
the power lines.

One moment Trent is a clever hick hoaxer -- the next moment he
is a stupid hick hoaxer.

 >>>The major problems with any model theory remains:

 >>1. The bright shadowed bottom that is "whiter than white",
 >>readily explainable by atmospheric haze of a distant object, but
 >>requiring some sort of elaborate hoax hypothesis if up close.

 >Robert Sheaffer experimentally showed that this could have been
 >created by a dirty camera lens. Condon investigator William K.
 >Hartmann later agreed with this.

And Bruce Maccabee _proved_ the hypothesis wrong. Read his
papers. The short, over-simplified refutation of Sheaffer is
this. A smudged lens affects _everything_ in the photos. You
can't be selective and say it affects only the saucer and
nothing else in the picture.

 >>2. The difference in size between the two photos that cannot be
 >>simply explained as a difference in distance from where the
 >>photos were taken.

 >Yes it could when the wires are used as a reference. A possible
 >explanation would be the slightly larger size of the model in
 >the first picture because of its being closer to the camera,
 >being suspended below the wires.

No it can't. The two positions where the photos were taken can
be determined with good precision from the photos and on-site
measurements (although the exact positions are still being
worked on). Where any model would have been relative to the
power lines can be determined through triangulation of the
lines-of-sight from the 2 photo positions to the two saucers.

The lines-of-sight intersect about 2 feet in front of the wire
and about half way in between. That tells us first of all that
this can't be simply a model passively suspended from the same
point on the power lines in both photos. And second of all, it
tells us that the size difference _can not_ be simply explained
by differences in distance to the power lines.

That means the model has to be swinging to fully account for the
observed size difference (the straightforward hoax hypothesis)
or Trent went through even further trouble for incomprehensible
reasons and constructed yet another model only a few percent
smaller than first (the wildly implausible hoax hypothesis).

This isn't wishful thinking. The conclusion is forced by what is
the pictures themselves show.

 ><snip>

 >>3. The elevation angles match exactly with the size difference
 >>of a distant object moving away in level flight.

 >Or an object which is further away from the camera in the second
 >picture?

Only if the model remains stationary between the two shots and
the size and parallax differences can also be accounted for by a
stationary suspended model, which they cannot -- see above.

 >>5. There is no visible rotation between shots, virtually ruling
 >>out a single-point suspension model.

 >How, if the model wasn't made to spin?

If the model wasn't made to spin through using something like
two point suspension (Sheaffer's hypothesis), then you also
restrict the degree of side-to-side swing. This causes further
problems in trying to replicate other photo details, such as the
parallax shift, the sideways tilt of the saucer, the profiles
shown, and the blurred right edge in photo 2.

 >>6. The edge-on profile in photo 2 and the bottom-showing profile
 >>in photo 1 must be replicated along with everything else.

 >Replicated from what?

 From any theory of how the hoax was done. Proclaiming it was
easy to hoax just doesn't cut it. There are details in the
photos that seriously restrict how a hoax could be carried out.
It's not simply a case of tossing a pie plate in the air or
passively hanging a model from a thread and shooting it from two
angles.

 ><snip>

 >>Now "compute" the odds of Trent getting all the subtle details
 >>in the photos just right and also making it agree exactly with
 >>the story they told. These odds are truly long, very long.

 >What if only one detail is shown to be inconsistent with the
 >story told by the witnesses? What if this is a demonstrated time
 >of 15-20 minutes between pictures that were supposed to have
 >been taken within seconds?

Again with your imaginary 15 to 20 minute time lag. There is no
demonstrable shift in the shadows. All I see you doing is
mindlessly parroting Robert Sheaffer's arguments without
questioning whether they are correct or not.

The best data is Bruce Maccabee's photometric measurements
direct form the negatives, which show no detectable shadow
shift.

 >And what if another detail shows that
 >the picture was taken at another time of day than the witness
 >story?

Another of Sheaffer's attacks on the photos, which has also been
shown to be incorrect. I believe you would follow Sheaffer into
hell if he asked you to. I do notice you no longer mentioning
Sheaffer's "knot" on the power line. Could it be because it is
also imaginary?

Sheaffer claimed that the eave shadows on the east wall of the
garage could _only_ be caused by _direct_ morning sunlight and
are totally inconsistent with the photos being taken in the
evening, when the Trent's claimed they were.

1. Anomalous reverse shadowing can easily be shown to occur
under common conditions. In the case of the Trent photos, all
that is needed is a cloud blocking direct sunlight from the sun
in the west, the light passing over the cloud and scattering off
of dust and/or clouds to the east. This creates a secondary
light source to the east which will cast reverse _soft_ shadows
with indistinct edges, as in fact seen in the photos. (I have my
own photos of this effect taken under conditions like those
above, and have seen this anomalous shadowing a number of times
under the same conditions, even without clouds to scatter the
sunlight.)

2. Bruce Maccabee's direct photometric measurements off the
negatives (again clearly the best source of data) shows the
edges of the roofline and eave shadows to be much too broad to
be caused by direct sunlight, and must have come from a large,
diffuse source of light. Bruce suggested a cumulous cloud to the
east about 10 degrees in size scattering sunlight from the west.
(Incidentally, weather records from nearby Salem reported
scattered cumulous clouds in the area, i.e. due east of the
Trent's place, at the same time the Trent's said the photos were
taken.)

3. The clear absence of hard shadowing anywhere in the photos.
If you doubt this, spend 2 minutes and take a look at the power
pole across the street in photo 1. Where is the dark shadow on
the left and the bright sunlit side on the right that Sheaffer's
direct-sunlight hypothesis would demand? Answer me that.

4. Ironically the lower power line from which Trent supposedly
hung his model would cast a distinct shadow on the oil tank next
to the garage if the sunlight was direct. Even if the morning
sun was covered by fog causing a more diffuse light source, the
shadow should be much fainter but still detectable. There is no
such shadow in either photo. I discovered the existence of this
shadow when I recreated the scene in a computer ray tracing
program and placed the light source where the sun would be at
various times in the early morning.

5. Using the same ray tracing model and actual morning sun
positions on May 11, I also discovered that it was impossible to
recreate the eave shadows shown in the photos at any time of
morning. Earlier in the morning, the sun is too far north to
recreate the proper north-south position of the shadows, and
later in the day when the sun is perpendicular to the garage
wall to give about the right N/S positions it is too high in the
sky and the shadow ends would be too far down the wall.

But Sheaffer is God -- right Bob?-- and can't get anything
wrong. Shadows move that don't, dirt specks become thread
knots, and clearly diffuse indirect lighting becomes direct
sunlight.

 >And what if these two details are in fact key objections
 >in the 25-year controversy surrounding these pictures?

 >What do you think the odds would be that these two incongruous
 >details would not be included on your list?

They aren't included on the list because they have been
conclusively refuted. Sorry if this disturbs your religious
beliefs in the Holy Church of Sheaffer.

David Rudiak








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   May > May 23

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:49:46 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:20:22 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:53:50 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:15:55 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:45:02 -0400
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:33:35 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>The point s... can anyone cm up with solid reasons to believe the
 >>pictures are a hoax.

 >Internal inconsistency between the Trent stories and the
 >pictures for the following possible reasons:

 >1) A change in shadow angle of about 3 degrees between pictures,
 >suggesting that a morning rising Sun created the shadows. This
 >would call into question the time between pictures (15-20
 >minutes intend of seconds as claimed), and the evening time for
 >the pictures.

There is no way in hell using low resolution images that you
could possibly determine whether or not the very indistinct
shadows moved. The very best source of data on this is Bruce
Maccabee's microscopic photometric measurements from the
negatives, which demonstrate no significant shadow shift.

 >2) The change in size of the object was slightly greater than
 >the change in size of the distance between the wires, suggesting
 >the object was at the same distance from the wires, not a
 >distant moving object, although a distant object could have also
 >been coincidentally moving at a speed and direction which would
 >have created this change.

Your measurements which you posted the other day are way off and
are another indication that you are working from bad data.

When the actual photo positions are reconstructed from the
photos, and the positions of the hypothetical model relative to
the overhead power line are also reconstructed from the photos,
the difference in distances from the camera to the "model"
cannot account for the actual size difference of the the object
between photos 1 and 2.

 >Internal inconsistencies between various versions of the Trent's
 >stories:

 >1) Differences in the stories the Trent's told in 1950 as
 > published in two newspapers.

Which newspapers? What differences? How and why are these
differences important? Why would they be considered probative?
How do the stories compare with other stories in other
newspapers or with interviews with the Trents? (In other words,
how do you know how accurately the newspapers in question quoted
the Trents?)

 >2) Differences in the claimed number of deceased people who had
 >also seen the object during the famous incident but had never
 >revealed this publicly, as recorded during interviews conducted
 >by Bruce Maccabee with Mrs. Trent.

Boy, now you're really grasping at straws.

David Rudiak









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   May > May 23

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:31:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:22:39 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 07:01:57 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:46:37 -0700
 >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I'm currently in law enforcement and conduct criminal
 >>investigations.

 ><snip>

 >Royce, I too have been in law enforcement, but only on an AP
 >basis (Auxiliary Police). This, in the NYC 47th Pct. and as an
 >armned, academy-trained NYSP/AP. I am a grunt, not an
 >investigator and must admit to purely wannabee status. However,
 >I am quite familiar with cops, investigations, et al, including
 >the mind set.

 >Having said that, I am very curious as to your professional
 >opine regarding the issue of the value of witness testimony in
 >UFO sighting and abduction cases. In such, there is often _only_
 >the word of the witness. Often there is no evidence of the
 >event, not even a photograph to malign. Cripes, with or without
 >the photo, with or without any evidence other than witness
 >testomony, there are no strings to find, no hub caps. Just a
 >nutcase on the loose. Don't give that one a cap permit. Probally
 >burn himself.

 >I ask this question because in the process of writing of my own
 >experiences, I have interviewed large numbers of police
 >officers. The results of these interviews shocked even me, not
 >having ever before broached the subject with cops in 30 years. I
 >was during those 30 years, still in the closet.

 >How about witness testimony in your experience and in general?


Jim,

Sorry about the delayed response, I haven't turned my computer
on for almost a week. As for witness testimony in general, there
have been murder cases with some pretty weak physical evidence
that have ended in convictions simply based on the prosecutor
making a good case and a single witness.

As for UFOs, I prefer cases where there are witnesses _and_
physical evidence. You can have a single witness UFO sighting
and say, "Sure, that's interesting." In the end its nothing more
than anecdotal unless you have other people who say, "Hey, I saw
that on that day, too." Most of these reports get filed away
until you maybe run across someone later who reports something
similar.

If you start getting two or more witnesses, that's definitely a
good start for UFO cases without any physical evidence. The
Illinois UFO sighting case is quite exceptional in this regard.
Even without the Polaroid photo the case stands on its own: You
have multiple witnesses - most of which are police officers. You
know this, but the more credible the witness the better the
case.

As for abductions, when you have a single person telling you
they were abducted by aliens, well, you may think, "Okay,
whatever." If that single witness comes forward with a piece of
physical evidence to back the story you may say, "Hey, there
might be something here." If you have multiple, unrelated
witnesses coming forward saying they were abducted by aliens,
you may think it was interesting that multiple people were
reporting the same experience. If you have the same witnesses
coming forward with physical evidence of the same nature, then
you probably would be thinking that something was definitely
going on here and that its physical in nature.

UFO videos, photos, trace cases - this is where its at for me. I
believe that a lot of people fall short on investigating UFOs
because the public is the jury for every case and no one else.
How the facts pertaining to UFOs are presented to the public is
the most important factor next to doing a comprehensive
investigation. Again, witness testimony will always stand or
fall on the credibility of the UFO witness(es). While a lot of
UFO cases are out there, and many sound a bit much even for me,
the ones with the witnesses and the physical evidence are the
ones I pay particular attention to. This is not to say that
evidence cannot be fabricated...that's what science and analysis
are for.

The McMinnville UFO case is a classic case of where you have two
credible witnesses with no motive for hoax and photos as
physical evidence where the physical evidenc ehas stood up, even
the Condon Committee didn't debunk these photos.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind."
ufowatchdog@earthlink.net
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)










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   May > May 23

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:25:04 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:26:28 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 20:05:42 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:10:26 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:45:02 -0400
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:33:35 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Previously, I wrote the following:

 >>Take for instance the work of the Lydecker brothers during the
 >>30's 40's and 50's in Hollywood. They shot all their stuff using
 >>models out in normal daylight and it looked so real as to be
 >>undetectable to most audiences. ...What
 >>did they do before going to Hollywood? They were just dumb old
 >>farmers working for their dumb old farmer dad.

<snip>

 >To which Bruce replied:

 >>Yers, but I bet they spent some time "improving" their
 >>photographic and "simulation" (with models) skills before taing
 >>on Hollywood. I saw some UFO film by "plain old famers" in West
 >>Virginia some years ago....

 >What has this got to do with anything?

About as much as your little anecdote about the hick Lydecker
brothers. Bruce properly pointed out that Trent had only two
shots to get it right, not months and years of practice and
preparation like the Lydecker brothers.

 >It seems to be your position that because you or people you've
 >seen can't produce simple, believable effects that it is,
 >therefore, impossible.

If you think it was so simple, then please take us through the
steps that Trent used to do it. You'll find, if you actually
bothered to study the photos, that it is not so simple. No
simple hoax scenario can simultaneously recreate various details
in the photos.

 > Is your position regarding your analysis
 >so weak that it is imperative that the subjects MUST be idiots?
 >And besides, you know very well that faking a shot for motion
 >pictures is much harder than faking one for stills. None the
 >less, the techniques are simple and straight forward and work
 >even better for still shots.

These weren't strictly speaking "still shots." There is motion
blur on the right in the second photo, indicating motion to the
left (but no motion blur in the first photo). Furthermore, a
model would also have to been swung either toward or away from
the camera to fully recreate the observed size difference. Trent
would also have to snap the photo near the end of the swing when
the model was traveling very slow to avoid further blur around
other edges.

<snip>

 >>Hartmann offered reasons to reject the rotating (thrown) object
 >>hypothesis. You say "I see no reason.." OK, Then,
 >>explain why Hartmann's reasons are bas/incorrect/not worth
 >>a plugged saucer.

 >First off, The photos are far too soft to determine with any
 >certainty whether rotation was present or not

What rubbish! You are obviously dodging the question.

There is an offset knob or tower on top which is in the same
position in the two photos. To the limits with which this offset
position can be measured, there is little or no rotation between
the two photos.

This has nothing to do with how "soft" the photos are (whatever
_that_ means). It's an easy test to make and the pictures are
more than clear. The stupidity of your statement is a good
indication that you haven't read what Hartmann had to say in the
Condon report or don't care.

When you parroted Robert Sheaffer's stupid "knot thread on the
wire" debunking argument, the photos were apparently not too
"soft" for your tastes.

When you claim to have accurately measured shadow movement on
the photos, the photos weren't "far too soft." (And I can't
imagine anything more difficult to measure in these photos than
these very-low contrast, indefinite shadow edges.)

When you posted your erroneous relative size measurements, the
photos weren't "too soft" to do that either.

When you measured the distance between the wires, the photos
weren't "too soft."

But suddenly they are "too soft" to do a very simple test for
rotation. What crap!

 >(as if that mattered, anyway).

Gee, are you the same guy who said that the hoax could be as
simple as a hubcap thrown in the air?

No rotation then probably no tossed hubcap.

But now, according you, rotation doesn't matter.

 > To imply otherwise is wishful thinking.

You have no idea how stupid you now sound.

 >Second, the photos are far to soft to detect a thread,

Again they're too "soft." Would you please define "soft" for us?
"Soft" seems to mean in your vocabulary that any measurement
that supports photo authenticity is questionable because the
photos are suddenly not clear enough. But when you think
something in the photos supports your skepticism, then the
photos suddenly become remarkably clear.

 >if one was even necessary.

A thread is obviously necessary unless you toss it. If you toss
it, you are almost sure to detect some rotation in that offset
tower. That's one reason why rotation is important. Am I moving
to fast for you?

 >To imply otherwise is wishful thinking.

I guess you think if you keep repeating your mantra you will
convince people you know what you are talking about.

 >Third, the object is in a different place from one photo to the next.

Indeed. Glad you finally figured that out. And that is but one detail
supportive of it _not_ being a hoax.

 >This makes triangulation and distance estimates impossible.

Yes, a moving object in the distance cannot have its distance
triangulated without knowing its speed. However, a nonmoving
model up close CAN have its distance triangulated. Triangulation
shows that a "model" would have been too far forward of the
overhead wire to have been passively hanging there. Trent either
had to move the attachment position of the model or swing it
rather wildly to get the observed parallax shift with a model.

 >To imply otherwise is wishful thinking.

Distance estimates of the object haven't been based on
triangulation but photometry. So now you are trotting out straw
men.

 >Fourth, determining distance by judging luminance levels in a
 >photo is about an inch short of a guess even under the best of
 >circumstances; knowing the reflective values of the object,
 >lighting conditions, etc. Since the object is unavailable,
 >analysis is nothing but a guess. To imply otherwise is wishful
 >thinking.

The shadowed bottom of the "saucer" is simply too bright to be a
passively lit model up close. As Hartmann put it, the bottom was
"whiter than white." I.e., unless there is another unknown
source of illumination, the bottom couldn't possibly be that
bright no matter what the reflectance values were.

On the other hand the brightness is naturally accounted for if
the object was large and off in the distance. That was the
essence of Hartmann's argument. He was basically testing for
close (hoax) vs. far (real). Hartmann placed the maximum error
of his photometric estimates to be a factor of 4. Photometry
placed the object in the distance, therefore not a hoax. Whether
it was 1000 feet or 4000 feet away is a quibble.

 >Finally, Bruce wrote:

 >>But condescension or lack of same isn't the point. The point
 >>is... can anyone cm up with solid reasons to believe the
 >>pictures are a hoax.

 >Actually, Bruce, the point is just the opposite. I'd _like_ to
 >believe the Trent photos are real.

Give us all a break! It is quite obvious you _don't_ want to
believe the Trent photos are real. To imply otherwise is wishful
thinking. (Where have I heard that before?)

Most of what I've seen from you is one erroneous argument after
another. You particularly seem to worship at the altar of
debunker Robert Sheaffer, whose every argument against the
authenticity of the Trent photos has been refuted.

I especially like his foolish "knot-thread on the power line,"
which you of course dutifully parrotted for the List. A simple
comparison of the two photos would have told you the "knot" was
nothing but an obvious photo defect. I guess the second
comparison photo was "too soft" for your tastes to make the
connection.

 >But the evidence presented
 >doesn't convince me one way or the other for reasons that I
 >believe are obvious to the casual observer.

What is obvious is that you buy everything Sheaffer has to say,
right or wrong. To imply otherwise is wishful thinking.

"Casual" observation alone cannot determine the authenticity or
lack thereof of these photos. To imply otherwise is wishful
thinking.

Just thinking the hoax must have been simple doesn't do it. To
imply otherwise is wishful thinking.

There are numerous details in the photos that must be explained
by any hoax hypothesis, and no hoax hypothesis that I've yet
seen does the job. To imply otherwise is wishful thinking.

To cite but one example, any hoax hypothesis should account for
the apparent absence of rotation. But to you this isn't even
important, even though it has everything to do with whether or
not it was a tossed model (one of your favorites) or a model
suspended by a singular thread. I guess your powers of casual
observation are so keen and your instincts for hoax so great
that you can't be bothered with such trivial details.


David Rudiak









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 23

                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:42:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:30:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:57:51 +0000
 >From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:21:45 +0100
 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 13:05:38 +0000
 >>>From: Philip Mantle <pmquest@dial.pipex.com>
 >>>Subject: Non-UFO Question
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Dear John,

 >Very  amusing I'm sure. It was so funny I laughed so much I
 >nearly had another heart attack.

UFO comeback of the month... you guys are cracking me up.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind...or
your keyboard while typing "Disney former CEOs" into your search
engine of choice...
ufowatchdog@earthlink.net
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3  (eXpos: The Watchdog of UFOlogy)










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   May > May 23

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:38:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:32:55 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 00:53:50 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:45:02 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:15:12 -0500
 >>>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>The point s... can anyone cm up with solid reasons to believe the
 >>pictures are a hoax.

 >Internal inconsistency between the Trent stories and the
 >pictures for the following possible reasons:>

 >1) A change in shadow angle of about 3 degrees between pictures,
 >suggesting that a morning rising Sun created the shadows. This
 >would call into question the time between pictures (15-20
 >>he pictures.

There is no change in shadow angle. (Sheaffer was wrong.)
Besides the shadows and the overall lighting of the pictures are
not consistent with what one would expect from a sunlit morning
photo. See more in the McMinnville paper at www.mcmenamins.com.
Sorry the formating is so poor in paper #2.

 >2) The change in size of the object was slightly greater than
 >the change in size of the distance between the wires, suggesting
t>he object was at the same distance from the wires, not a
 >distant moving object, although a distant object could have also
 >been coincidentally moving at a speed and direction which would
 >have created this change.

sighting lines can be plotted on a map and they don't cross
under the wires.

 >Internal inconsistencies between various versions of the Trent's
 >stories:

 >1) Differences in the stories the Trent's told in 1950 as
 >published in two newspapers.

Had the stories been completely consistent the skeptics would
argue "hoax" because (a) no two witnesses see things exactly the
same, (b) peopl retell stories and recall different details, (c)
the "hearers" of the stories don't always understand accurately,
(d) when reporters write a story based on what they have been
told their own interpretation plays into what they write... ,
(e) editing of stories leaves stuff out... The amazing thing is
that the stories are quite similar.


 >2) Differences in the claimed number of deceased people who had
 >also seen the object during the famous incident but had never
 >revealed this publicly, as recorded during interviews conducted
 >by Bruce Maccabee with Mrs. Trent.

Paul Trent told James McDonald in 1969 that Paul believed his
father saw it. I never talked to Paul s I couldn't ask him.
Evelyn told me in 1976 or so that a lady told her she had seen
it. McDonald talked to Paul but not Evelyn, so he didn't ask
her. Hartmann (in 1967) didn't ask who else might have seen it.

Over all the years of interviews they never added another
person. Could have, had it been a hoax (they could have added
the names of lots of dead people over those years).








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 23

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:37:02 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:34:33 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:34:36 -0400
 >From: Michel M. Deschamps <ufoman@ican.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >I find it amazing that each time we celebrate the anniversary of
 >a classic UFO event, (in this case, the McMinnville photos),
 >this seems to somehow invoke skeptics and debunkers, who will do
 >or say anything in an attempt to discredit what is...

<snip>

Hi everyone.

I share Michel's frustrations.

Maybe it is not the present day skeptics and debunkers we should
blame but rather the visitors from the future who do not want
our generation to know that UFOs are alien spacecraft, for
example. ;o)

For an ongoing phenomena that has been so closely studied over
many decades by many researchers and then to have one promising
case after another lead to dead ends suggests to me that
visitors from the future are to blame. They can change just
enough in the present to introduce reasonable doubts about all
solid UFO cases and prevent us from coming to the truth in our
time.

How could one avoid this from happening? Well, if you have
uncovered proof that UFOs are E.T. spacecraft, then simply do
not tell anyone. If your UFO experience does not become common
knowledge, then the visitors from the future would have no way
of knowing about it and you would be one of the lucky few to
know the truth about UFOs in their lifetime. Maybe the ones who
took the famous McMinnville photos kept just enough facts about
their UFO experience to themselves to be one of these lucky few.

Unfortunately, I for one cannot keep such important secrets to
myself but others may have. Does anyone on this list have such
proof about the true nature of UFOs (but don't tell us lest your
solid UFO case eventually be debunked as all the other promising
UFO cases)?

The above is all speculation of course, but it does seem very
plausible to me, especially after a long hard day at work. What
are your thoughts on this? I suspect that I will soon hear a lot
of reasonable doubts and much more logical replies from
skeptics, debunkers and even fellow ufologists, especially
should I be anywhere close to the truth about the visitors from
the future.

Nick Balaskas









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 23

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:45:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:36:58 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 02:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:47:51 -0400 (EDT)
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >>>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:42:28 +0200
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Glob

<snip>

 >>If Trent was so damn clever and methodical in devising a hoax,
 >>as you seem to maintain, then why would he be so stupid as to
 >>include the overhead suspension wires in his photos?

 >David, Asgeir, List:

 >He wouldn't have to have been stupid, since the pictures showed
 >no thread. If they had, he wouldn't have told anybody about them.

 >>The major problems with any model theory remains:

 >>1. The bright shadowed bottom that is "whiter than white",
 >>readily explainable by atmospheric haze of a distant object, but
 >>requiring some sort of elaborate hoax hypothesis if up close.>

 >Robert Sheaffer experimentally showed that this could have been
 >created by a dirty camera lens. Condon investigator William K.
 >Hartmann later agreed with this.

Yes, and then I showed that there was a further factor relating
the brightness of the white house wall (a vertical surface) to
the brightness of a horizontal white surface seen from below.
Neither Hartmann nor Sheaffer considered that factor.  When
included it effectively cancelled Sheaffer's veiling glare
correction. Se the first CUFOS paper at www.mcmenamins.com at
the Hotel Oregon site.


 >>2. The difference in size between the two photos that cannot be
 >>simply explained as a difference in distance from where the
 >>photos were taken.

 >Yes it could when the wires are used as a reference. A possible
 >explanation would be the slightly larger size of the model in
 >the first picture because of its being closer to the camera,
 >being suspended below the wires.

The sighting lines don't cross under the wires.

 >What if only one detail is shown to be inconsistent with the
 >story told by the witnesses? What if this is a demonstrated time
 >of 15-20 minutes between pictures that were supposed to have
 >been taken within seconds?
Sheaffer was wrong.  No motion of the shadows.
(One of the first things I checked when I got the negatives
years ago!)

 >And what if another detail shows that
 >the picture was taken at another time of day than the witness
 >story? And what if these two details are in fact key objections
i>n the 25-year controversy surrounding these pictures?

Shadows do not prove the pictures were taken in the morning.

 >What do you think the odds would be that these two incongruous
 >details would not be included on your list?

Because he knows the analysis which ruled out these "incongruous
details."








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 23

                       Re: What's New At Project 1947

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:56:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:46:55 -0400
Subject: Re: What's New At Project 1947


WHAT'S NEW AT PROJECT 1947

http://www.project1947.com/new.htm

"New Top Secret Document Discovered," a slightly updated version
of the April 2000 MUFON Journal article on the formerly Top
Secret Telecon Transcript TT #1524 from USAF, Europe,
Intelligence to USAF HQ Director of Intelligence on UFO activity
in Europe and the recovery operation of a "flying saucer" seen
by a high ranking Swedish officials in 1948.


The coversheet for the document TT1524

http://www.project1947.com/fig/cover5.htm

shows that both the CIA and Wright Field had Top Secret UFO
documents. TT1524 was not part of the Project Blue Book files.

The index of 1948 documents

http://www.project1947.com/fig/48docdex.htm#top

lists a number of coversheets chronicling the progress of the
Air Inteligence Divisions' Top Secret study AIR 203 from its
initiation on 27 July 1948 until its completion.

Also, a number of new documents either used in the TT1524
article or to be highlighted in upcoming articles can be called
up here.

Also, included is a Top Secret control sheet, an illustration of
how Top Secret documents were inventoried and controled by the
USAF in 1948.

Documents on Horten aircraft and the Horten Brothers show early
intelligence interest in unusual aircraft in connection with
UFOs. Rejection of Col. McCoy's request for fighter aircraft to
intercept UFOs, a Top Secret memo from Brig. Gen. Moore on a new
Soviet missile, and other subjects are covered in these
documents.

Previously John Stepkowski posted material Project Silver Bug,
both scans and text of the Silver Bug material.


http://www.project1947.com/fig/48docdex.htm#top

One should note here that the Joel Carpenter's article in the
latest International UFO Reporter, IUR, ties Silver Bug and
other AVRO projects to the Senator Richard Russell UFO report in
1955.

Project 1947 is pleased to host the Sign Historical Group's
webpage.  The Sign Historical Groups was established at Chicago
UFO History Workshop in May of 1999. It is attempt record and
preserve UFO history. (It should be stated that the views
expressed on the Project 1947 website are not necessarily the
views of the Sign Historical Group.)

http://www.project1947.com/shg/index.html

The Proceedings of the Sign Historical Group may be ordered
here. There are a number of articles on various aspects of UFO
history by such writers as Jenny Randles, Dr. Thomas Bullard,
Brad Sparks, Mark Cashman, Michael Ravnitzky, Jerome Clark,
Edoardo Russo and others. Here, Brad Sparks tell us about his
thoughts on "Ruppelt's Coverups," Air Vice Marshall J. Salatun
relates to Dr. Hynek the state of UFO activity in Indonesia,
USAF General John W. Vogt tells how he figures he was the first
official UFO investigator and many other gems from UFO history.

A major section is devoted to where historical material is
located and how to find and utilize it.

Finally, the Sign Historical Group compiles the contents of
large UFO colleections of its member, and holdings of libraries
and universities.

Bill Jones has built a large collections at the Ohio State
University. Recent Bill and John Stepkowski has recently updated
the inventory of the collection. Check it out, if you have
material they don't have and would like to donate it, please get
in touch with Bill.

http://www.project1947.com/shg/resource.htm

For over 30 years Barry Greenwood has built up a huge collection
of articles from popular magazines and academic journal on UFOs.

http://www.project1947.com/shg/grnwood.htm

Greenwood's Bibliography of magazine and journal articles here

http://www.project1947.com/shg/bga1.htm

represents over 2000 entries, however, a much more extensive
compilation by Barry and Loy Pressley has just been completed
which will have well over 7200 articles. The new listing will
appear here soon.

Greenwood has one of the largest collection of UFO journals and
zines. Barry has inventoried this collection also.

http://www.project1947.com/shg/bgper.htm

If you have, issues that would fill some of his gaps these would
be welcome. Trades are possible.

Finally, the Sign Historical Group has an extensive program of
Oral History interviews. So far, Colonel Robert Friend, Dr. Leon
Davidson, Ted Bloecher, Fred Durant, Brad Sparks, Prof. Charles
Moore, Dr. Roy Craig, Albert Chop, Captain Willis Sperry,
Colonel Doyle Rees and a number of important witnesses such as
the Minot AFB, B-52 pilot and many others gave testimony before
the camera. Many more interviews are scheduled.

The Project 1947 site would not be possible without the work of
John Stepkowski, the webmaster, Candy Peterson, and Loy Peterson
who compile, arrange, and prepare the material for the site.

Project 1947 will soon revise the comentaries on 1948, and 1949.
New discoveries make these revisions necessary.

New articles are currently in progress on Foo-fighers in World
War II, Official US Ghost Rocket Documents, the 1947 UFO Wave,
UFOs and the CIA (Sorry, Mr. Haines, you did miss some important
facts and factors.), JANAP 146 and Its Effects on the Official
UFO Investigations, The Horten Brothers Aircraft, "War-1974" and
A. V. Roe Aircraft. Some of the documents John Stepkowski has
put on the site that currently appear to be orphans will soon be
tied together with the comentaries mentioned above and other
articles.

Other resources, such as an inventory of 110 US Ghost Rocket
documents which also mention 88 other documents from various
agencies that are yet to be found are also scheduled for the
website.

We also hope to have extensive material on the operation of
intelligence organizations in the early UFO era.

We hope the fruits of FOIA, research and the work of hundreds
will soon be available at the Project 1947 website.

Best regards,

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
(860) 546-9135









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 23

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:56:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:54:59 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:58:37 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:25:12 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:45:02 -0400
 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

Previously, Bruce had written:

 >>But condescension or lack of same isn't the point. The point
 >>is... can anyone come up with solid reasons to believe the
 >>pictures are a hoax?

To which Jerry replied:

 >I'm afraid, my friend, that you're missing the point, which is
 >this:

 >Since UFOs don't or can't exist, you don't need evidence to
 >debunk the McMinnville photos.  You can theorize freely, without
 >any basis whatever, that the Trents were diabolically clever
 >souls who outwitted at least two generations of investigators
 >into (1) finding no telltale technical faults with the pictures
 >while (2) pretending -- not just to investigators like you, who
 >actually bothered to talk with them on a number of occasions,
 >but to their neighbors and fellow townsfolk -- that they were
 >simple, unsophisticated people who, in an even more diabolical
 >twist, didn't even believe they'd photographed anything more
 >than an experimental aircraft. And then -- even worse -- they
 >were so fiendishly clever that they made a point of not
 >profiting from their work.  I guess we can all be relieved that
 >persons of overarching evil genius chose to stay on this side of
 >the law.

Hello, Jerry...

This is a bit much, don't you think?

Is it heresy to suggest that Bruce is mortal, like the rest of
us, and can possibly be fooled?

I find his analysis interesting, but not conclusive. Is it
required that I agree with him in the face of my own
experiences, both personal and professional? And why should my
experiences with people and their masked intentions be
considered any less valid than Bruce's assumptions? And less
face it; they really are nothing but assumptions. They can't be
quantified or measured in any scientific way.

Sometimes people do things for the hell of it.

Is this so hard to accept?

Me thinks you doth protest too much....

later,

Roger








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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 23

                         What's New At Project 1947

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:56:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:58:34 -0400
Subject: What's New At Project 1947


WHAT'S NEW AT PROJECT 1947

http://www.project1947.com/new.htm

"New Top Secret Document Discovered," a slightly updated version
of the April 2000 MUFON Journal article on the formerly Top
Secret Telecon Transcript TT #1524 from USAF, Europe,
Intelligence to USAF HQ Director of Intelligence on UFO activity
in Europe and the recovery operation of a "flying saucer" seen
by a high ranking Swedish officials in 1948.


The coversheet for the document TT1524

http://www.project1947.com/fig/cover5.htm

shows that both the CIA and Wright Field had Top Secret UFO
documents. TT1524 was not part of the Project Blue Book files.

The index of 1948 documents

http://www.project1947.com/fig/48docdex.htm#top

lists a number of coversheets chronicling the progress of the
Air Inteligence Divisions' Top Secret study AIR 203 from its
initiation on 27 July 1948 until its completion.

Also, a number of new documents either used in the TT1524
article or to be highlighted in upcoming articles can be called
up here.

Also, included is a Top Secret control sheet, an illustration of
how Top Secret documents were inventoried and controled by the
USAF in 1948.

Documents on Horten aircraft and the Horten Brothers show early
intelligence interest in unusual aircraft in connection with
UFOs. Rejection of Col. McCoy's request for fighter aircraft to
intercept UFOs, a Top Secret memo from Brig. Gen. Moore on a new
Soviet missile, and other subjects are covered in these
documents.

Previously John Stepkowski posted material Project Silver Bug,
both scans and text of the Silver Bug material.


http://www.project1947.com/fig/48docdex.htm#top

One should note here that the Joel Carpenter's article in the
latest International UFO Reporter, IUR, ties Silver Bug and
other AVRO projects to the Senator Richard Russell UFO report in
1955.

Project 1947 is pleased to host the Sign Historical Group's
webpage.  The Sign Historical Groups was established at Chicago
UFO History Workshop in May of 1999. It is attempt record and
preserve UFO history. (It should be stated that the views
expressed on the Project 1947 website are not necessarily the
views of the Sign Historical Group.)

http://www.project1947.com/shg/index.html

The Proceedings of the Sign Historical Group may be ordered
here. There are a number of articles on various aspects of UFO
history by such writers as Jenny Randles, Dr. Thomas Bullard,
Brad Sparks, Mark Cashman, Michael Ravnitzky, Jerome Clark,
Edoardo Russo and others. Here, Brad Sparks tell us about his
thoughts on "Ruppelt's Coverups," Air Vice Marshall J. Salatun
relates to Dr. Hynek the state of UFO activity in Indonesia,
USAF General John W. Vogt tells how he figures he was the first
official UFO investigator and many other gems from UFO history.

A major section is devoted to where historical material is
located and how to find and utilize it.

Finally, the Sign Historical Group compiles the contents of
large UFO colleections of its member, and holdings of libraries
and universities.

Bill Jones has built a large collections at the Ohio State
University. Recent Bill and John Stepkowski has recently updated
the inventory of the collection. Check it out, if you have
material they don't have and would like to donate it, please get
in touch with Bill.

http://www.project1947.com/shg/resource.htm

For over 30 years Barry Greenwood has built up a huge collection
of articles from popular magazines and academic journal on UFOs.

http://www.project1947.com/shg/grnwood.htm

Greenwood's Bibliography of magazine and journal articles here

http://www.project1947.com/shg/bga1.htm

represents over 2000 entries, however, a much more extensive
compilation by Barry and Loy Pressley has just been completed
which will have well over 7200 articles. The new listing will
appear here soon.

Greenwood has one of the largest collection of UFO journals and
zines. Barry has inventoried this collection also.

http://www.project1947.com/shg/bgper.htm

If you have, issues that would fill some of his gaps these would
be welcome. Trades are possible.

Finally, the Sign Historical Group has an extensive program of
Oral History interviews. So far, Colonel Robert Friend, Dr. Leon
Davidson, Ted Bloecher, Fred Durant, Brad Sparks, Prof. Charles
Moore, Dr. Roy Craig, Albert Chop, Captain Willis Sperry,
Colonel Doyle Rees and a number of important witnesses such as
the Minot AFB, B-52 pilot and many others gave testimony before
the camera. Many more interviews are scheduled.

The Project 1947 site would not be possible without the work of
John Stepkowski, the webmaster, Candy Peterson, and Loy Peterson
who compile, arrange, and prepare the material for the site.

Project 1947 will soon revise the comentaries on 1948, and 1949.
New discoveries make these revisions necessary.

New articles are currently in progress on Foo-fighers in World
War II, Official US Ghost Rocket Documents, the 1947 UFO Wave,
UFOs and the CIA (Sorry, Mr. Haines, you did miss some important
facts and factors.), JANAP 146 and Its Effects on the Official
UFO Investigations, The Horten Brothers Aircraft, "War-1974" and
A. V. Roe Aircraft. Some of the documents John Stepkowski has
put on the site that currently appear to be orphans will soon be
tied together with the comentaries mentioned above and other
articles.

Other resources, such as an inventory of 110 US Ghost Rocket
documents which also mention 88 other documents from various
agencies that are yet to be found are also scheduled for the
website.

We also hope to have extensive material on the operation of
intelligence organizations in the early UFO era.

We hope the fruits of FOIA, research and the work of hundreds
will soon be available at the Project 1947 website.

Best regards,

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
(860) 546-9135







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 24

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:07:14 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:10:29 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >No it can't. The two positions where the photos were taken can
 >be determined with good precision from the photos and on-site
 >measurements (although the exact positions are still being
 >worked on). Where any model would have been relative to the
 >power lines can be determined through triangulation of the
 >lines-of-sight from the 2 photo positions to the two saucers.

 >The lines-of-sight intersect about 2 feet in front of the wire
 >and about half way in between. That tells us first of all that
 >this can't be simply a model passively suspended from the same
 >point on the power lines in both photos. And second of all, it
 >tells us that the size difference _can not_ be simply explained
 >by differences in distance to the power lines.

David:

Where can I find this? Is there a diagram?

Clear skies,

Bob Young








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 24

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:23:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:12:21 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:56:52 -0500
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:58:37 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:25:12 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:45:02 -0400
 >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Roger,

 >>Since UFOs don't or can't exist, you don't need evidence to
 >>debunk the McMinnville photos. You can theorize freely, without
 >>any basis whatever, that the Trents were diabolically clever
 >>souls who outwitted at least two generations of investigators
 >>into (1) finding no telltale technical faults with the pictures
 >>while (2) pretending -- not just to investigators like you, who
 >>actually bothered to talk with them on a number of occasions,
 >>but to their neighbors and fellow townsfolk -- that they were
 >>simple, unsophisticated people who, in an even more diabolical
 >>twist, didn't even believe they'd photographed anything more
 >>than an experimental aircraft. And then -- even worse -- they
 >>were so fiendishly clever that they made a point of not
 >>profiting from their work. I guess we can all be relieved that
 >>persons of overarching evil genius chose to stay on this side of
 >>the law.

 >This is a bit much, don't you think?

Nope.

 >Is it heresy to suggest that Bruce is mortal, like the rest of
 >us, and can possibly be fooled?

All of us can be fooled, sure. Unlike his critics, however,
Bruce has actually investigated the case and interacted with the
principals, not to mention conducted the most extensive
technical analysis of the photos ever. That being the case, I'd
say the likelihood of his being fooled is measurably less than
yours or mine.

 >Sometimes people do things for the hell of it.

Which is sort of the feeling I get from some of the critics'
arguments here. Beyond that, where the McMinnville photos are
concerned, you're exactly making a point I raised earlier: that
in the end the skeptics' claims are unfalsifiable. In the
absence of any evidence of any kind that the Trents were hoaxers
or had any motive for hoaxing, all we get is a glib remark like
yours above, which naturally is incapable of disproof. It means,
in other words, nothing at all.

You're a good guy, Roger, but all of us have our good days and
bad days. I think you're on your latter in what you've said
about McMinnville and the Trents.


 >Me thinks you doth protest too much....

I protest too much? I think the protester-too-much is the guy
you see when you look in the mirror. You've expended a lot more
verbiage on this case than I have.

Cordially,

Jerry Clark









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 24

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:39:57 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:18:41 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:12:10 -0500
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:40:57 -0300
 >>Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:23:54 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Previously, Donald wrote:

 >>As for Roger Evans arguments based on what two SFX experts did
 >>in the fifties could be a basis for what the Trents
 >>accomplished, because they both had the same background, that
 >>falls apart.

 ><snip>

 >Hello, Donald.

 >I didn't suggest that because they were once farmers that made
 >them experts in effects. I mentioned their background to show
 >that "simple minded" people sometimes work out the most elegant
 >and effective solutions, that's all.

Let's not suggest that being a farmer is somehow low on the IQ
ladder. I was suggesting that the two SFX brothers learned
another trade and then once proficient in that area were hired
to do special effects, unlike the Trents who were not trained.

 >Continuing, Donald wrote:

 >>I'm in the business too. It ain't that easy, and the simplest
 >>method doesn't always work.

 >But quite often it does. If it _never_ worked, then you would
 >have said so. Thank you for validating my point!

No its suggests that they would not have to use sophisticated
props but would have to have had considerable experience, time
and trial runs to get just two "quick" shots. It doesn't add up.
We sometimes spend hours just getting the lighting right in
controlled conditions. I find it hard to believe that the Trents
fooled the experts for 50 plus years with a box camera.

 >And finally, Donald declared:

 >>It always amazes me how frightened people get by the possibility
 >>of the unknown.

 >I had no idea that I was frightened.

 >Beyond that, I also have no idea what that statement, which I
 >assume you felt was profound, even means...

Now there's the Roger I know. Gotta get in the shaft. Profundity
is not my strong suit. I wasn't looking for the sound bite.

 >Perhaps it is the opposite of this:

 >It always amazes me how presumptuous people get by the
 >possibility of the obvious.

Your statement.

My head.

See what I mean?

 >Later,

Yeah.


Don Ledger









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                            Other Intelligences?

From: royjhale <royjhale@netscapeonline.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:07:30 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:22:11 -0400
Subject: Other Intelligences?


Hi All,

An article on the aspect of ET Intelligence:

http://members.netscapeonline.co.uk/royjhale/TheRiseofother.htm

Regards,

Roy..








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               CPR-Canada News: 'Fields of Dreams and Strange

From: Paul Anderson <psa@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:06:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:35:55 -0400
Subject: CPR-Canada News: 'Fields of Dreams and Strange



CPR-CANADA NEWS
The E-News Service of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada

http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

May 23, 2000

_____________________________



FIELDS OF DREAMS and STRANGE SKIES:
A Visual Presentation on the Crop Circle and Chemtrail Phenomena


The CONTACT group (Center for Ontological Action) in Bellingham,
Washington will be featuring a double presentation on the
continuing crop circle enigma and the chemtrail controversy by
Paul Anderson, Director of Circles Phenomenon Research Canada
and Founder of The Millennium Project. This joint presentation
is part of The Millennium Forum (TMP) and Fields of Dreams
(CPR-Canada) series of public lectures. Topic highlights to
include:


- Latest 2000 crop circle updates from around the globe

- Exclusive CPR-Canada reports on the 1999 Canadian crop
circles, one of the most prolific years to date (2000 season
reports pending)

- The scientific evidence for the crop circle phenomenon, with
the latest information from the BLT Research Team

- Chemtrails: evidence of a mass covert military spraying
program? For what purpose? Slowing down global warming?
Biological warfare testing?

- What is behind the 'chemtrails' reported from hundreds of
cities and rural communities across Canada, the US and overseas
since late 1998 - why are unmarked military aircraft 'spraying'
our skies in elaborate X, parallel row and grid patterns?

- What have lab tests found in chemtrail samples taken after
low-level spraying?

- Is there a connection to new recent pandemic outbreaks of
"flu-like" upper respiratory illnesses?

- Why did Project Censored name this one of the most
underreported news stories of 1999?

- Special TMP reports and documentation of the chemtrail
phenomenon over Vancouver, BC and across Canada


Saturday, June 3, 2000
3:00 - 5:00 PM
Bellingham Public Library
210 Central Avenue, Bellingham, Washington

ADMISSION:

Free (donation of $5.00 suggested)

FURTHER INFORMATION:

CPR-Canada / TMP
604.731.8522
psa@direct.ca

Matthew Thuney
CONTACT
800.746.0377
contact@iluminet.com



Note: Subscription requests for this news update service are
sometimes being received without specifying "subscribe
CPR-Canada News". Please note that as I run a similar mailing
list for The Millennium Project (TMP News), subscription
requests MUST include "subscribe CPR-Canada News", as outlined
in the subscribe / unsubscribe instructions at the end of this
e-mail (or "subscribe TMP News" for that list for example, or at
least specify which list you are wanting to be added to in your
message). If a request simply states "please add me to your
list" or similar, I do not always know which mailing list you
are requesting. Please submit requests according to these
guidelines to ensure you are quickly added to the list without
delay. Thank you! - Paul Anderson, editor.

_____________________________


See also the CPR-Canada web site for complete listings of news
stories, reports and related information and links:

http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

_____________________________


CPR-Canada News is the electronic news service of Circles
Phenomenon Research Canada (affiliate of Circles Phenomenon
Research International), providing periodic updates with the
latest news and reports, as well as information on CPR-Canada
-related news and events. CPR-Canada News is edited by Paul
Anderson and published by CPR-Canada, and is available free by
subscription; to be added to or removed from the mailing list,
send your request, including "subscribe CPR-Canada News" or
"unsubscribe CPR-Canada News" and e-mail address to:

psa@direct.ca

For further information, submissions or inquiries, forward all
correspondence to:

CIRCLES PHENOMENON RESEARCH CANADA
Circles Phenomenon Research International

Main Office

Suite 202 - 2086 West 2nd Avenue
Vancouver, BC  V6J 1J4  Canada
Tel / Fax (Office): 604.731.8522
Tel (Cell): 604.727.1454
E-Mail: psa@direct.ca
Web: http://www.geocities.com/cpr-canada

REPORTING HOTLINE: 604.731.8522

_____________________________


� Circles Phenomenon Research Canada, 2000











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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:39:04 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 02:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>What if only one detail is shown to be inconsistent with the
 >>story told by the witnesses? What if this is a demonstrated time
 >>of 15-20 minutes between pictures that were supposed to have
 >>been taken within seconds?

 >Again with your imaginary 15 to 20 minute time lag. There is no
 >demonstrable shift in the shadows. All I see you doing is
 >mindlessly parroting Robert Sheaffer's arguments without
 >questioning whether they are correct or not.

What imaginary 15-20 minute time lag? I measured the shadows and
reported the result on this list:

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:11:41 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:28:11 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: Two Skeptical Papers On The Trent Photos

<snip>

 >>>Also, I measured the position of the shadow under the roof and
 >>>the roof corner. In the first picture (#23) the angle is 12 degrees,
 >>>and in the second picture the angle is 15 degrees. This 3 degree
 >>>difference could have been caused by the rising _morning_ Sun
 >>>if the pictures were taken about 15-20 minutes apart.

 >>>I wasn't able to determine what was casting the part of the
 >>>shadow I measured, so was not able to estimate the time."

<snip>

 >>And what if another detail shows that the picture was taken
 >>at another time of day than the witness story?

 >Another of Sheaffer's attacks on the photos, which has also been
 >shown to be incorrect.

Wrong, again, David. I made my own measurements which showed
that the shadow shifted down, something which could have been
caused by a rising morning Sun.

 >Sheaffer claimed that the eave shadows on the east wall of the
 >garage could _only_ be caused by _direct_ morning sunlight and
 >are totally inconsistent with the photos being taken in the
 >evening, when the Trent's claimed they were.

 >1. Anomalous reverse shadowing can easily be shown to occur
 >under common conditions. In the case of the Trent photos, all
 >that is needed is a cloud blocking direct sunlight from the sun
 >in the west, the light passing over the cloud and scattering off
 >of dust and/or clouds to the east.

A similar effect, but closer to the Sun and potentially
brighter, could have occurred closer to sunrise when the May 11
Sun might have been behind the Trent's house, to the right. I
understand that the precise position of the house wall and the
camera have not been determined, yet.

 >3. The clear absence of hard shadowing anywhere in the photos.
 >If you doubt this, spend 2 minutes and take a look at the power
 >pole across the street in photo 1. Where is the dark shadow on
 >the left and the bright sunlit side on the right that Sheaffer's
 >direct-sunlight hypothesis would demand? Answer me that.

 >4. Ironically the lower power line from which Trent supposedly
 >hung his model would cast a distinct shadow on the oil tank next
 >to the garage if the sunlight was direct. Even if the morning
 >sun was covered by fog causing a more diffuse light source, the
 >shadow should be much fainter but still detectable. There is no
 >such shadow in either photo. I discovered the existence of this
 >shadow when I recreated the scene in a computer ray tracing
 >program and placed the light source where the sun would be at
 >various times in the early morning.

I understand that the precise location of the garage, house wall
and wires has not been determined. What data did you use for
your ray tracing exercise?

 >5. Using the same ray tracing model and actual morning sun
 >positions on May 11, I also discovered that it was impossible to
 >recreate the eave shadows shown in the photos at any time of
 >morning. Earlier in the morning, the sun is too far north to
 >recreate the proper north-south position of the shadows

Could you be clearer on this last statement? I measured the
shadow edge and compared it to the corner of the roof eave, the
resulting 15 degree altitude could have been caused by morning
Sun about an hour after sunrise, or at other times if caused by
reflection from nearby clouds.

You seem to have a fixation on Robert Shaeffer. I
preferred my own measurements, which I shall try to refer
to in future so as not to to disturb you too much.

   Condon picture #23 - 12 degrees shadow elevation
   Condon picture #24 - 15 degrees elevation
    3 degrees = 15-20 minutes between pictures

Clear skies,

Bob Young







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:51:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:41:08 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


<snip>

 >If Trent was so intent on carrying out a hoax to the point of
 >carefully camouflaging a suspension thread, why would he leave
 >the means of suspension (i.e. the power lines) visible in the
 >photos ? All he had to do was reframe the pictures to eliminate
 >the power lines.

<snip>

David,

You amaze me.

Regardless of whether the Trent photos were hoaxed or not, Trent
wouldn't have had to have in mind the idea of camouflaging a
suspension thread one way or the other, as he would have no
foreknowledge that such a suspending thread (assuming same was
actually employed) could be ascertained by advanced
photogrammetric (sp?) analysis.

Put simply, it wouldn't have been a concern. So your question as
to why he would include the power lines in the photographs is
nothing more than a rhetorical straw man of your own reasoning.

Eliminate the power lines and other points of reference, and
what have you got? A saucer shape against a sky background, with
no points of reference whatsoever.

I like the Trent photographs. I just don't know if they're real,
but I do know your above line of reasoning isn't. In fact, it's
eerily similar to the line of reasoning you accuse skeptics of
assuming.

Dennis Stacy








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                         A Year In The Live of Mars

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:47:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:47:09 -0400
Subject: A Year In The Live of Mars


Source: discovery.com

http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20000523/space_mars.html


A Year In The Live of Mars

Associated Press, Copyright 2000

May 23, 2000 - NASA has made more than 20,000 images of Mars
available as a Web-based photo album.

The pictures taken by the orbiting Mars Global Surveyor
constitute the single largest one-time release of images for any
planet in the history of solar system exploration, the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration's Jet Propulsion Laboratory
said Monday.

The archive covers one Mars year, 687 Earth days, beginning in
September 1997 and extending through August 1999.

Many of the pictures have such high resolution that objects on
the surface the size of a school bus can be seen.

This great clarity has revealed numerous geologic features on
the Red Planet, including dunes, slopes and exposed layers of
rock, in unprecedented detail. Astronomers have been puzzling
over the origin of these formations, which have no obvious
analog on Earth.

"Perhaps it is because water is the dominant force of erosion on
Earth, even in the driest desert regions. But on Mars that force
of change may have been something else, like wind," Ken Edgett,
a scientist on Surveyor�s camera team, said in a statement.

The release allows anyone with Internet access to explore Mars
in much the same way as planetary researchers do, said Ken
Edgett, staff scientist at Malin Space Science Systems, a San
Diego firm that operates Surveyor's camera.

"They can experience them the same way that Mars Global Surveyor
scientists do � one at a time, no captions or explanations, just
'Here it is. What does it show me?' " Edgett said.

Mars Global Surveyor was launched on Nov. 7, 1996, and arrived
at Mars on Sept. 12, 1997. It has completed more than 5,000
orbits of the Red
Planet.






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                       Re: What's New At Project 1947

From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:50:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 06:09:30 -0400
Subject: Re: What's New At Project 1947


 >From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:56:12 -0400
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:58:34 -0400

 >Subject: What's New At Project 1947

 >WHAT'S NEW AT PROJECT 1947

 >http://www.project1947.com/new.htm

 >"New Top Secret Document Discovered," a slightly
 >updated version of the April 2000 MUFON Journal
 >article on the formerly Top Secret Telecon Transcript TT
 >#1524 from USAF, Europe, Intelligence to USAF HQ
 >Director of Intelligence on UFO activity in Europe and the
 >recovery operation of a "flying saucer" seen by a high
 >ranking Swedish officials in 1948.

<snip>

 >Best regards,
 >Jan Aldrich
 >Project 1947
 >http://www.project1947.com/


Jan & List:

Referring to the following URL:

http://www.project1947.com/fig/jtt.htm

and with the following exerpt:

"USAFE saved the block-buster for the last part of the message.
An object had crashed into a Swedish lake. "A technical expert
near his home on the edge of the lake" was the witness. USAFE
informed DI that the Swedes had recovery operations for the
crashed object under way. Anyone familiar with the 1946 "Ghost
Rockets" knows that a number of the these earlier reports
claimed objects had allegedly come down in Scandinavian lakes. A
1946 Secret letter from the Commander US, Naval Forces, Europe,
commented on an earlier 1946 recovery attempt from a lake in
Norway.

The Navy was very much interested in what might be found. While
they were willing to render assistance, there were two problems:
the lack of Naval equipment and experts for that type of work in
Europe at the time, and the lack of an invitation to assist from
the Norwegian government. The Commander, US Naval Force Europe,
felt that the matter required authorization from US political
authority to proceed.  [5].  Nothing further officially is known
about the Norwegian lake crash, but the "technical expert" in
the USAFE Swedish lake report was identified in another Top
Secret DI 1948 document now at Maxwell AFB  [6]."


The incident in _Norway_ mentioned above, _might_ have been the
incident reported here (but, many other similar incidents
/sightings are also found here):

http://www.ufo.no/english/articles/pre47-1.html

with the following exerpt:

"18 Jul 1946; Mjsa;

Between 12:00 and 12:30, several witnesses observed two V1-like
objects coming in low, about 50 m height, from west. The
witnesses first heard a strong whistling sound, not exactly like
an aircraft. The objects were flying so low as to cause the
trees to sway. They both impacted in Lake Mjsa, about 2 km from
the western shore and about 7 km from Minnesund. They were
sigarshaped, about 2,5 m long, with about 1 m long wings placed
about 1 m behind the nose. The front and back parts were shining
like metal, but the middle section including the wings were
dark. The wings seemed to flap a little. No fire or light were
seen. The objects were close together, one in front of the
other, and their trajectory were like when you throw a stone.
When they impacted in Lake Mjsa, the water splashed several
meters in the air. No explosion was heard. The sky was clear,
and the water calm. Some of the witnesses were Sigvart Skaug,
his wife, son, and daughter, and Nils & Gustav Tosterud.

(Newspapers, etc., referring the incident:)
AFTENPOSTEN, 19 Jul 1946, 1; 20 Jul 1946, 1+5+14.
BUSKERUDS BLAD, 20 Jul 1946, 1.
DRAMMENS TIDENDE, 20 Jul 1946, 1.
FREMTIDEN, 20 Jul 1946, 1.
GTEBORGS-TIDNINGEN, Jul 1946.
HD, 20 Jul 1946.
SVD, 20 Jul 1946.
MT, 21 Jul 1946, 18.
AFTENPOSTEN, 22 Jul 1946, 1.
ARBEIDERBLADET, 22 Jul 1946, 1.
FREMTIDEN, 22 Jul 1946, 1.
MORGENBLADET, 22 Jul 1946, 1.
FLYING SAUCER REVIEW, v 15/n 2 - Mar/Apr 1969, 18.
OFFICIAL UFO, Oct 1976, 61.
Gross: THE MYSTERY OF THE GHOST ROCKETS,
1982, 14-5.
AFU NEWSLETTER, 27 - Jan/Dec 1984, 4. "


Lake Mjsa is the largest lake in Norway, located in the county
of Hedemark, with the cities of Hamar, Lillehammer (1994 Winter
Olympic Games) and Gjvik at its shorelines.


Best regards,

Asgeir












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                                Virus Watch!

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 02:56:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 06:24:14 -0400
Subject: Virus Watch!


Dear List Readers:

Norton Anti-Virus just detected a virus on my machine. It was
sent from one "Alberto Bonisoli" with the unlikely email address
of <Bonisoli@datacom.bg> i.e. somewhere in Bulgaria.

The virus detected was identified by NAV as " W97M.Proverb.A ",
a variant on the W97M family which infects phony Microsoft
Word97 documents.

No harm is done unless you _open_ the MSW document itself, i.e.
if you click on the attachment.

I never heard of Alberto Bonisoli, but I sent him a nice
thank-you note. Evidently I was on his email list, so some of
you may be as well; thus this message.

Beware! (and have that Anti-Virus software up and running!)

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: I've been getting goofy letters from overseas asking about
VHS tapes (Alien Interview, secret Nazi UFOs etc.) plus
magazine subscriptions etc. The only thing I ever sold was my
*U* Database software. If anyone knows why this should start
up now, I would appreciate a kind note! -LH

[Readers should set a filter to trash any messages from the
  offending address above - assuming they don't know of an
  'Alberto Bonisoli'

  "goofy letters"? Do you mean snail-mail? Or 'Message' as
  in e-mail? --ebk]









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                     Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000

From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:44:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:41:22 -0400
Subject: Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000


This morning I had a telephone call from a good friend of mine
asking me if I had heard the latest. I wasn�t sure which latest
he was referring to, so I told him no. "It�s all over the net"
he said, "Chuck Shramek has died." He caught me by surprise.
"What did you say?" I asked in disbelief. "Shramek died?" I
stopped for a second. "Damn, that is a shock" I kind of mumbled.
I had known Shramek for years although he and I had never "met".
I first made Chuck�s acquaintance when he was a caller on my old
radio show "UFOs Tonite!" Over the next few years Chuck was a
frequent caller on the program. He always proved to have a great
sense of humor, was erudite and generally a joy to talk to. Then
the "Comet" happened.

It was November of 1996 and the huge story of the day was the
Hale Bopp Comet. A beautiful and fiery display in the heavens,
Hale Bopp was wowing all. One evening in November the Art Bell
program received a call from Shramek. An amateur astronomer,
Shramek had been "imaging" the comet with his 10" SC telescope
and a CCD camera. In the photo Shramek took there appeared to be
another body close to the comet that had a "ring like" form
around this mysterious body. Shramek called it a "Saturn Like
Object". He emailed it to Bell who quickly placed it on his
website. The storm broke!

Shramek was attacked across the board from all corners of the
skeptical world. Alan Hale, co-discoverer of the Hale Bopp
Comet, accused Shramek of "promoting government conspiracies,
promoting the work of fringe writers that include Richard
Hoagland and Zecharia Sitchin."

Now let�s stop for just a second. All Shramek did was photograph
the Comet and report on this mysterious object. He _never_
claimed it was anything but odd. He checked his computer
database program and could not locate any star that might have
been the object. He was baffled and said so. So he did what
anyone who knew Chuck would expect Chuck to do, retaliate by
explaining how he feels about the term "butthead astronomers!"
Vintage Shramek.

The Hale Bopp fiasco ended on a not very jolly note with 39
members of an obscure UFO cult committing suicide. This sordid
tale did not die down for several years and Chuck was always
quick to explain what happened from his end of the spectrum. Oh
yes, I should also note that Chuck was very quick to take note
and report to the public NASA�s peccadillos when it concerned
the truth about items like Mars, the Moon, UFOs and fabricated
statements about all of the above.

Chuck succumbed to cancer on May 23, 2000. He was 49 years of
age. I will miss him.

Don Ecker
UFO Magazine

--
If it's green or it wiggles, it's biology.
If it stinks, it's chemistry.
If it doesn't work, it's physics.
Don Ecker UFO Magazine http://www.ufomag.com

http://www.neosoft.com/~cshramek/








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:42:39 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:43:12 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:39:57 -0300
 >From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >No its suggests that they would not have to use sophisticated
 >props but would have to have had considerable experience, time
 >and trial runs to get just two "quick" shots. It doesn't add up.
 >We sometimes spend hours just getting the lighting right in
 >controlled conditions. I find it hard to believe that the Trents
 >fooled the experts for 50 plus years with a box camera.

Why do we have to assume that the Trents had to get it right in
just two shots? We don't know how many rolls of film they might
have used up in previous unsuccessful attempts. And surely the
point about a box camera is that the picture quality is fairly
basic and does not allow too close an examination.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk









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                            Re: Non-UFO Question

From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:17:57 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:45:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:53:57 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Non-UFO Question


Jim (De Capo) Mortellaro Said:

 >First, you've used the wrong word. It is not expert
 >it is Ex-Spurt. Which is to say, "A has-been drip."

<snip>

 >If you follow those rules, you will always sell books,
 >be a real Ex-Spurt and become known as the Mensche
 >Capo di Tutti Mensche Capos.

<snip>

 >Jim Mortellaro, Capo


Dear Jim, EBK & List,

Jim defined an "Expert" as:

Spelling   = "Ex-Spurt"
Definition = "A has-been drip"

Using the long abused Ox-Ford Dictionary (GTX Edition) and that
is the 'not so concise version' and Oz-Australian Edition MKIII
8-), you can also characterize "Expert" as:

Spelling:  = "Xspurt"
Definition = [1]. "An unknown quantity under pressure"
              [2]. "An unknown quantity who gush or issue
                   suddenly to show marked activity or
                   energy for a short period then is
                   throw or forced out suddenly"


Regards to Jim & all,


John W. Auchettl
Director PRA Research



WEB:
http://www.praufo.web.com
* Still in development


Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE











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   May > May 24

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:16:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:51:27 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:07:31 +0200
 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Bruce wrote:

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:25:50 -0400
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 19:27:47 -0400
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

<snip>

 >We are then - in my opinion (and considering also the "large"
 >uncertainties and many assumptions in the photo analyses) -
l>eft with the two "most likely" explanations, being ranked
 >according to subjectively estimated probabilities as follows:

 >1) A hoax, with an approx. 0.999 999 999..... probability,
 >(or, at least 99.999 999 999..... % chance).

 >or,

 >2) A _real_ UFO, with an approx. 1/1,000,000,000(,00.....)
 >probability (or, the odds _against_ such an event is at least a
 >billion to one......).

 >Thus, the conclusion is that 2 possible explanations were left;
 >either a hoax or a _real_, extraterrestrial UFO. However, only
 >some extraordinary evidence would have been required for the
 >possibility of the extraordinary, real UFO alternative, and the
 >two photos are certainly not such evidence, as they can "easily"
 >be hoaxed.

<LOL>

After all this discussion you have arrived at approximately
where I started over 25 years ago. I assumed that I could prove
Hartmann of the Condon report was wrong in claiming that "all
factors investigated"... were consistent with the claim of the
witnesses that an "extraordinary flying craft" went by. So, now
you can look forward to many year of careful analysis to see if
your probabilities change. Too bad you are too late to talk to
the witnesses. But you can watch Terry Halstead's video
interview of them.








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   May > May 24

                   Re: Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:31:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:40:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000


 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:44:51 -0700
 >From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
 >Subject: Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >This morning I had a telephone call from a good friend of mine
 >asking me if I had heard the latest. I wasn�t sure which latest
 >he was referring to, so I told him no. "It�s all over the net"
 >he said, "Chuck Shramek has died." He caught me by surprise.
 >"What did you say?" I asked in disbelief. "Shramek died?" I
 >stopped for a second. "Damn, that is a shock" I kind of mumbled.

I was shocked too -- then I felt the sizable loss.

 >I had known Shramek for years although he and I had never "met".
 >I first made Chuck�s acquaintance when he was a caller on my old
 >radio show "UFOs Tonite!" Over the next few years Chuck was a
 >frequent caller on the program. He always proved to have a great
 >sense of humor, was erudite and generally a joy to talk to. Then
 >the "Comet" happened.

Still a very deeply mysterious thing for all the subsequent
denial, dismissal, and discounting.

 >It was November of 1996 and the huge story of the day was the
 >Hale Bopp Comet. A beautiful and fiery display in the heavens,
 >Hale Bopp was wowing all. One evening in November the Art Bell
 >program received a call from Shramek. An amateur astronomer,
 >Shramek had been "imaging" the comet with his 10" SC telescope
 >and a CCD camera. In the photo Shramek took there appeared to be
 >another body close to the comet that had a "ring like" form
 >around this mysterious body. Shramek called it a "Saturn Like
 >Object". He emailed it to Bell who quickly placed it on his
 >website. The storm broke!

Wowing a selected few, I would amend. For all it's unusual
behavior it was addressed in a subdued manner, badly
photographed, and now poorly and inaccurately remembered. The
biggest celestial event of our time...

 >Shramek was attacked across the board from all corners of the
 >skeptical world. Alan Hale, co-discoverer of the Hale Bopp
 >Comet, accused Shramek of "promoting government conspiracies,

Horaciously twisted shorts with a lemon twirl! We all 'know'
that 'those' never happen!

 >promoting the work of fringe writers that include Richard
 >Hoagland and Zecharia Sitchin."

Yeah, well -- Sitchin's a tough ball to field for the
skepti-bunkers, and I sympathize with their murmering
consternation, but at the same time am hugely entertained by it.
Suck it up boys!

 >Now let�s stop for just a second. All Shramek did was photograph
 >the Comet and report on this mysterious object.

Exactly (!) -- his report was exactly as _I_ would have given it
in exactly the way _I_ would have heard it. How DARE anyone
presume to tell me what I should or should not be listening to.
As I have written numerous times BEFORE Chuck's tragically
premature death, I COMMEND him for facing the anomaly and having
the GUTS to give us some unfiltered news. This especially when I
believe it highly likely that he was largely RIGHT, but that's
another post.

 >He _never_ claimed it was anything but odd.

We agree! It must be _fact_! <g>.

 >He checked his computer
 >database program and could not locate any star that might have
 >been the [or a likely] object. He was baffled and said so.

See preceding comment.

 >So he did what
 >anyone who knew Chuck would expect Chuck to do, retaliate by
 >explaining how he feels about the term "butthead astronomers!"
 >Vintage Shramek.

...And missed already.

 >The Hale Bopp fiasco ended on a not very jolly note with 39
 >members of an obscure UFO cult committing suicide.

And! As I have written, no reflection on Mr. Shramek one wit or
startled periwinkle.

 >This sordid
 >tale did not die down for several years and Chuck was always
 >quick to explain what happened from his end of the spectrum. Oh
 >yes, I should also note that Chuck was very quick to take note
 >and report to the public NASA�s peccadillos when it concerned
 >the truth about items like Mars, the Moon, UFOs and fabricated
 >statements about all of the above.

Any 'lie' that Chuck Shramek told was likely a lie that told a
truth. If he TOLD the truth and a half, it was only because he
was tired of hearing half the truth.

 >Chuck succumbed to cancer on May 23, 2000. He was 49 years of
 >age. I will miss him.

Me too. I never got to speak to Chuck, but I listened to him,
appreciated him, and was inspired by him...

I wrote him only one piece of E-Mail, several ago out of the
blue, asking him to covertly look in on a mutual friend who was
feeling kind of low. We had never even been introduced. In a few
days I got a return E-mail. "Done," he had written.

I'll miss his wit, courage, and sense of ethics. He was a _true_
original, and (I'd bet) originally true.

 >Don Ecker
 >UFO Magazine
 >
 >--
 >If it's green or it wiggles, it's biology.
 >If it stinks, it's chemistry.
 >If it doesn't work, it's physics.

If it won't resolve, it's UFO's.

 >Don Ecker UFO Magazine http://www.ufomag.com

 >http://www.neosoft.com/~cshramek/


Lehmberg@snowhill.com
--
~~~~
EXPLORE Alfred Lehmberg's Alien View" at his Fortunecity URL.
http://www.alienview.com
                  ''Updated All the TIME''
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/witches/237/lehmberg.html

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, burned at a
skepti-feebroid stake.







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   May > May 24

                              The COMETA Report

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:47:26 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:43:35 -0400
Subject: The COMETA Report


Stan Friedman wrote:

Three quick items re the COMETA Report:

1. Has anybody seen any other newspaper pick up on the Boston
Globe Story of May 21?

2. I have noted 5 different listings for Willard H. Miller via
the People Finder of Netscape. Anybody know anything about him?
He is mentioned in the Globe story, but no real clues are given
as to who he is or where he is (_if_ he is legitimate).

3. For those who would like a copy of the 90 page English
Translation of the COMETA Report, I am making copies available,
as noted on Coast to Coast a few weeks ago, for only $10.
including first class postage from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME
04730-0958. Or call toll free 877-457-0232 to use VISA or Master
Card..

Stan Friedman







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:56:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 22:36:20 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:42:39 +0100
 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Why do we have to assume that the Trents had to get it right in
 >just two shots? We don't know how many rolls of film they might
 >have used up in previous unsuccessful attempts. And surely the
 >point about a box camera is that the picture quality is fairly
 >basic and does not allow too close an examination.

If you assume that every researcher that spoke with the Trents
was completely taken in by their seeming innocence, and couldn't
see through their fakery, your point is well taken.

To say that it is possible that they had faked the photos is
probably accurate, but that doesn't make it likely.

Steve







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: James Easton <voyager@ufoworld.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 01:19:59 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:15:48 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


Regarding:

 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:49:01 -0400
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:43:47 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

Bruce wrote:

 >Nor can the fakery of the Trents be supported with any fact...
 >And, all the circumstantial evidence points against it. In fact,
 >the only argument for a hoax is "flying saucers don't exist...
 >there is no evidence that they exist..... therefore the Trents
 >faked their pictures"

Bruce,

On its own, that's a prevailing argument.

Surely we understand by this time how the popularised 'flying
saucer' perception was founded on that misconstrued simile, which
Kenneth Arnold used to describe the undulating flight
characteristics of those nine 'bat-like' objects.

If the chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one,
the odds on it looking like a 'flying saucer' with a funnel are
even more remote.

In addition to this foremost obstacle, the Trents story is
blatantly suspicious, even if it were absolutely true.

They claim that a flying saucer came out of nowhere, headed
towards their farm where they waited with a camera, spool already
loaded, the 'saucer' conveniently almost stopped overhead and
they were able to take two high quality photographs before it
took off and nothing like it was ever seen again.

[As we know, the only comparative image, supposedly from a
photograph taken near Rouen in northern France, has no confirmed
origin].

I agree it seems doubtful the Trents created a sophisticated hoax
and prefer the scenario suggested by our 'alien spacecraft' being
an outdoor light cover, or something similarly mundane.

One problem is how the object moved between shots - looks like it
can't have been blowing about in a strong wind as foliage in the
second photo seems to be completely undisturbed compared to the
first.

I'm also not comfortable with the idea that someone risked injury
by tying an object to overhead electrical wires, yet it seems the
most conceivable explanation in a hoax scenario.

Where any fake saucer would probably have been suspended, how
high were these overhead wires?

Incidentally, although I would expect these photos were taken in
the sequence we believe and not the other way around, is there a
reason we can be sure about this? Did anyone ever confirm what
was on the other negatives from that roll of film, ruling out the
possibility these were the two 'best' shots from a longer
sequence?

Coming back to purported events, the following summary, edited to
remove references, is taken from:

http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/500511.htm

Witness I [Mrs Trent] was feeding rabbits in the back yard, S of
the house and E of the garage when the object was first sighted,
apparently toward the NE. Witness II [Mr Trent] was apparently in
the house at this moment, as three of the accounts refer to
Witness I calling to him and running into the house to fetch him
from the kitchen, although one account states that they had "been
out in the back yard," and "both saw it at the same time."

Immediately after they both saw the object, apparently as it was
still in a NE direction, moving slowly toward the W, they thought
of their camera. Witness II ran to the car, thinking it  was
there, but Witness I remembered it was in the house and brought
it. Witness II took the camera, which was already loaded. The
roll of film had been purchased during the winter and already had
two or three shots on it.
[End]

Is it a bird, is it a plane... wouldn't most people try to
determine what the object was? Why did Mrs Trent immediately
believe it to be something extraordinary - this far away object
almost certainly being indistinct?

Accepting the most common account, which places Mr Trent in the
house, considerable time must have elapsed since that initial
observation, e.g.:

- Mrs Trent is in the back yard and sees an unidentified object

- she calls to Mr Trent

- Mrs Trent runs into the house and tells him there's something
in the sky which she wants him to take a look at

- they both go outside to see if the object is still there

- although it might still have been distant, they decide this
aerial artefact is sufficiently notable that it should be
photographed

- searching for his camera, Mr Trent runs to his car, however,
Mrs Trent recalls the camera is actually in the house and goes
to find it

- she locates the camera and returns with it

- Mr Trent focuses on the object, which it's presumably now
evident could be a flying saucer, and as it has obligingly
almost hovered in front of him, he is duly able to look down at
the viewfinder and fix the aerial vehicle close to centre frame

- he moves to the right and again has time to focus and frame,
obtaining another relatively excellent result.


Did the Trents ever express any fear that an unidentified
object, maybe a flying saucer, was coming increasing close to
their farm?

When it was allegedly moving extremely slowly and just about
hovered whilst the photographs were taken, didn't they wonder if
it was about to land (what about those Martians with death
rays!)?

Of course, it might not have been clear until the last minute
how they may be encountering a flying saucer, which brings us
back to that question of why a distant, unidentified object -
which was possibly, or likely to be, an aircraft - should have
generated such excitement in the first place.


You have noted:

 >Of more importance is the fact that everyone who knew the Trents
 >told me that the idea of a hoax was beyond them... they just
 >didn't have the mental capacity to think of anything outside
 >their range of daily activities.

Far from being incapacitated, what actually distinguishes this
case is how the Trents were extraordinarily alert - to the
extent they apparently predicted this was to be an occurrence
which should be committed to film.

I'm sure we can all think of cases where claimed witnesses
lamented how they never thought about using an available camera
or camcorder.

 >>Man, you must really think the Trents were stupid!

 >You got it, man!

Evidently not so.


James Easton.
E-Mail: voyager@ufoworld.co.uk
www.ufoworld.co.uk








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: James Easton <voyager@ufoworld.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 02:07:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:20:43 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


Almost a year ago, I published the following:

Voyager Newsletter - Issue No. 6

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/v06.txt

Date: 29/06/99
Re: Trent Photographs
UFO Research List

There's a 'UFO' photograph which may not be well known and which
depicts an object similar to the 'flying saucer' photographed by
Paul Trent on 11 May, 1950.

[...]

All I can ascertain is that the more recent photograph was
apparently taken by Herr Walter Schilling, on 3 Jul 1977, in
Hamburg, Germany.

My source is a 1993 CD-ROM entitled, `UFO'.

Although the CD-ROM contains numerous hoaxed photographs, some
of the other material is interesting and maybe not so well
known.

Of the Schilling photograph, it states:

"Herr Walter Schilling observed and photographed a flying disc
with a curious rotating, fluorescent periscope-like mast. The
object was very close to the ground and was tilted at an angle
as it cast a 30ft shadow on the grass to its right".

The reason why I suspect it's an obvious fake, aside from it
being the archetypal and mythical `flying saucer', will, I'm
sure, be evident on seeing the full sized photograph. There's a
copy on my web site at:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/schillng.jpg

Another (inferior quality) copy, plus further material from this
CD-ROM can be found at:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~pro/033.htm

So, what became of Herr Schilling's photograph?

I may have been overly optimistic in expecting to find further
references to it. Do any of our colleagues in Germany perhaps
know more about this `Trent look-alike' case?

[End]


It was subsequently confirmed that Schilling was, perhaps no
great surprise, apparently a well known hoaxer and much worse.

That acknowledged, if we take the 'flying saucer' from his
photo, scale and rotate it comparative to the object shown in
the Trent photographs, are there notable similarities - see:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/trent_x.jpg

Taking this exercise further, I copied the scaled and rotated
Schilling saucer into a Trent photo and this comparison can be
seen at:

http://www.ufoworld.co.uk/trent_y.jpg

Although there may arguably be striking similarities, the
unanswered question is where Schilling's hoax 'saucer' came
from.

If, and I doubt this, it was modelled on the Trent photos, then
that offers an explanation.

Otherwise, if Schilling had used an available saucer-like object
which he thought might look like a 'flying saucer', we do have
to ask what earthly artefact so resembled the purported alien
spaceship technology which the Trents astonishingly managed to
capture on film.


James Easton.
E-Mail: voyager@ufoworld.co.uk
www.ufoworld.co.uk










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                   Re: Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000

From: Rebecca <xiannekei@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:32:15 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:21:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000


 >From: Don Ecker <decker@ufomag.com>
 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:44:51 -0700
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:41:22 -0400
 >Subject: Chuck Shramek 12-27-50 - 05-23-2000

 >Chuck succumbed to cancer on May 23, 2000. He was 49 years of
 >age. I will miss him.

I will too.

Rebecca
Not Feeling Very Clever At The Moment









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:50:28 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:39:04 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 02:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >>>What if only one detail is shown to be inconsistent with the
 >>>story told by the witnesses? What if this is a demonstrated time
 >>>of 15-20 minutes between pictures that were supposed to have
 >>>been taken within seconds?

 >>Again with your imaginary 15 to 20 minute time lag. There is no
 >>demonstrable shift in the shadows. All I see you doing is
 >>mindlessly parroting Robert Sheaffer's arguments without
 >>questioning whether they are correct or not.

 >What imaginary 15-20 minute time lag? I measured the shadows and
 >reported the result on this list:

Yes, I know, but unless you are doing measurements of these
indistinct shadows from the best possible data available (either
the negatives or blow-up first generation prints from the
negatives) any claims that you have accurately measured shifts
in the shadows is little more than a bad joke.

Bruce Maccabee did photometric measurements directly off the
negatives. You can't get any better data than that. Results:
no shadow shifts.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am assuming that the photos you
are using are the low-resolution #23 & #24 ones (which you
mention at the end) included on the Net Condon Web site at:

http://www.ncas.org/condon/text/case46.htm

No way can you authoritatively determine whether the shadows
have shifted from such low resolution images. Garbage in --
Garbage out.

I have scans from first generation prints (courtesy of Bruce)
that have resolutions 6 times better than these Condon site
JPGs, and I still don't feel comfortable reaching any
conclusions about shadow movements based on these images. When I
do look at my higher-resolution JPGs, I see no vertical shift in
the shadows, none at all. The bottom edge of the eave shadows
seems even with the top edge of a horizontal trim board in both
photos.

Bruce's measurements from the negatives are the gold standard
here, and there are no shadow shifts.

 ><snip>

 >>>And what if another detail shows that the picture was taken
 >>>at another time of day than the witness story?

 >>Another of Sheaffer's attacks on the photos, which has also been
 >>shown to be incorrect.

 >Wrong, again, David. I made my own measurements which showed
 >that the shadow shifted down, something which could have been
 >caused by a rising morning Sun.

First of all, no shadow shifts.  Second of all, all the evidence
I cited below that the shadows were not caused by morning sun.

 >>Sheaffer claimed that the eave shadows on the east wall of the
 >>garage could _only_ be caused by _direct_ morning sunlight and
 >>are totally inconsistent with the photos being taken in the
 >>evening, when the Trent's claimed they were.

 >>1. Anomalous reverse shadowing can easily be shown to occur
 >>under common conditions. In the case of the Trent photos, all
 >>that is needed is a cloud blocking direct sunlight from the sun
 >>in the west, the light passing over the cloud and scattering off
 >>of dust and/or clouds to the east.

 >A similar effect, but closer to the Sun and potentially
 >brighter, could have occurred closer to sunrise when the May 11
 >Sun might have been behind the Trent's house, to the right.

Using your claimed elevation figures of12 deg for photo 1 and 15
deg for photo 2, a May 11 date, and the sun's azimuth's of 76.6
deg and 79.5 deg respectively for those elevations, and running
this through my ray tracer, the house would have cast a large
shadow across the right side of the oil tank, the garage, and up
onto the corner of the roof.

However, there are no such shadows, are there?  Thanks for
demolishing your own argument. The absent house shadow shall be
dutifully added to the list of arguments that the photos were
not taken in direct morning sun. It's an angle I hadn't
considered before.

Once again, thanks!

 >I understand that the precise position of the house wall and the
 >camera have not been determined, yet.

The position of the house wall is known to an accuracy of about
1 foot. The camera positions are currently known to within a
foot or two (and more accurate values should be soon available
as the computer models are refined).

This really has no substantial effect on the arguments. E.g., I
used a house wall placement at the most extreme positions to
minimize the house shadows cast on the tank and garage. But they
are still there.  Too bad for your side.

 >>3. The clear absence of hard shadowing anywhere in the photos.
 >>If you doubt this, spend 2 minutes and take a look at the power
 >>pole across the street in photo 1. Where is the dark shadow on
 >>the left and the bright sunlit side on the right that Sheaffer's
 >>direct-sunlight hypothesis would demand? Answer me that.

I notice you skipped responding to this point which absolutely
disproves direct sunlight. The pole is completely out in the
open yet there is almost no shadowing. The ambient lighting is
obvious very diffuse. Trying to quibble over the exact placement
of the house, or wires, or camera positions can't save you here.

 >>4. Ironically the lower power line from which Trent supposedly
 >>hung his model would cast a distinct shadow on the oil tank next
 >>to the garage if the sunlight was direct. Even if the morning
 >>sun was covered by fog causing a more diffuse light source, the
 >>shadow should be much fainter but still detectable. There is no
 >>such shadow in either photo. I discovered the existence of this
 >>shadow when I recreated the scene in a computer ray tracing
 >>program and placed the light source where the sun would be at
 >>various times in the early morning.

 >I understand that the precise location of the garage, house wall
 >and wires has not been determined. What data did you use for
 >your ray tracing exercise?

I think you mean the placement of the house and wires relative
to the garage. The wires are attached to the top center of the
south wall of the house (see Hartmann's 1967 on-site photo on
the Condon Web site page). Again this placement is known to
within about a foot. So is the position of the house.  The
other ends of the wires were  probably attached to the back
center of the garage near its peak, though this still isn't
certain. However, when I do attach it there in the ray tracing
program and then look at from different perspectives (those of
the two Trent photos and the Hartmann photo), I am able to
recreate the positions of the wire as shown in the photos.

No matter how you want to fiddle with the placement of the wire,
it is still going to cast a shadow slanting across the tank in
direct morning sunlight, just as the house casts a shadow on the
tank and garage at the times you claim the photos were taken.

You lose again.

 >>5. Using the same ray tracing model and actual morning sun
 >>positions on May 11, I also discovered that it was impossible to
 >>recreate the eave shadows shown in the photos at any time of
 >>morning. Earlier in the morning, the sun is too far north to
 >>recreate the proper north-south position of the shadows

 >Could you be clearer on this last statement? I measured the
 >shadow edge and compared it to the corner of the roof eave, the
 >resulting 15 degree altitude could have been caused by morning
 >Sun about an hour after sunrise,

The shadows are cast in two dimensions, not one.  Sure, you can
get a 15 degree sun elevation in the morning on any day of the
year, but can you _simultaneously_ get the sun's azimuth and
elevation right to cast the shadows as shown May 11 in the Trent
photos? The answer is no.

Here's a table of the sun's azimuth and elevation in the morning
on May 11 at Trent's position:

Time               Azimuth    Elevation
6:30 a.m.           70.7           6.0
7:00                75.7          11.1
7:15                78.3          13.7
7:30                80.8          16.3
8:00                85.8          21.5
8:30                91.1          26.8

At no time in the morning can you recreate the eave shadow
angles with direct sunlight.

 >or at other times if caused by  reflection from nearby clouds.

If you are going to argue reflection from clouds, then you have
already conceded defeat, because reflection from clouds can also
account for the shadows if the pictures were taken in the
_evening_. That was exactly my point (and Bruce Maccabee's
point some time ago).

If the shadows are caused by cloud reflections, then you can no
longer claim that the shadow patterns are inconsistent with the
Trent's story of when the photos were taken. Nor can you claim
that shadow movements, even if they did exist, are evidence of
hoaxing, since they are no longer tied to movement of the sun in
the sky.

 >You seem to have a fixation on Robert Shaeffer.

No, I noticed you just rehashing all of his discredited
arguments and then using them as "evidence" that the Trents
hoaxed the photos.

 >I preferred my own measurements, which I shall try to refer
 >to in future so as not to to disturb you too much.

 >  Condon picture #23 - 12 degrees shadow elevation
 >  Condon picture #24 - 15 degrees elevation
 >   3 degrees = 15-20 minutes between pictures

As I said before, garbage in, garbage out. Your shadow movements
are as imaginary as your direct sunlight. There is nothing here
to discredit the Trents.

David Rudiak








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:10:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:03:39 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:50:28 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:39:04 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

Previously, David wrote:

 >>>Again with your imaginary 15 to 20 minute time lag. There is no
 >>>demonstrable shift in the shadows. All I see you doing is
 >>>mindlessly parroting Robert Sheaffer's arguments without
 >>>questioning whether they are correct or not.

To which Bob replied:

 >>What imaginary 15-20 minute time lag? I measured the shadows and
 >>reported the result on this list:

David responded:

 >Yes, I know, but unless you are doing measurements of these
 >indistinct shadows from the best possible data available (either
 >the negatives or blow-up first generation prints from the
 >negatives) any claims that you have accurately measured shifts
 >in the shadows is little more than a bad joke.

 >Bruce Maccabee did photometric measurements directly off the
 >negatives. You can't get any better data than that. Results:
 >no shadow shifts.

<snip>

Let's see....

We can measure the shadows on the garage, the ground, the house,
the power lines, the trees, the poles, the roof, the pigs and
the cows and the hired help. And with all due respect to Bob's
efforts, none of this amounts to squat. The object of interest
is _still_ a fuzzy, black and white "thing" floating in the
middle of a blank sky with no reference points what so ever. It
doesn't go behind anything and is too small and grainy to
ascertain its identity or origin other than it looks
suspiciously like a milk can lid. In essence, you've got
information on everything in the bloody picture _except_ the
damned UFO!

Is it the real thing? Personally, I'd like to think so. But the
bottom line is that you can ray trace until the cows come home
(and I think they've long since gone to bed) but you won't get
any closer to authenticating the UFO than a casual observer
would by looking at the photos with the naked eye.

Finally, David wrote:

 >You lose again.

Probably the most revealing bit of information you've passed on,
yet, David.

I grow bored repeating the obvious...

Roger







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 01:22:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:08:50 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >Subject: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Bob Young <YoungBob2@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 02:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

Wrong, again, David. I made my own measurements which showed
that the shadow shifted down, something which could have been
caused by a rising morning Sun.

Let's try some more measurments and More Analysis:

Using Large Magnifications (blowups):

Measuring above the knot that appears prominently above the oil
tank in both photos:

the spacing between apparent horizontal shadow edge and the
lower of two board gaps just below the shadow edge in photo 1:
16 mm/10.75 = 1.49 mm on negative; fuzziness at least 1/4
mm/10.75 = 0.02 mm  (10.75 is the magnification of the print)
Hence we have 1.49 +/- 0.02 mm.

The spacing between apparent horizontal shadow edge and the
lower of the two board gaps in photo 2:  11.5 mm/8.25 = 1.39 mm
on negative; fuzziness at least  1/4 mm /8.25 = 0.03 mm on
negative

These two distance just calculated lie on the surface of the
wall along essentially the same vertical line (above the knot in
the wood).

Thus one might conclude from this that the shadow image moved
down the wall image by 1.49 - 1.39 = 0.1 mm going from photo 1
to photo 2.  Since the distance of the camera from the wall was
about 25 ft for photo 1 and 30 ft for photo 2, use 28 ft average
and estimate (with 100 mm focal length) that the actual distance
on the wall that 0.1 mm image distance corresponds to is
0.1mm/100mm times 28 ft = (336 inches)/1000 = 0.336 inches. If
the edge of the roof were about 7 inches from the wall measured
horizontally (a measurement perpendicular to the wall) (this
distance is essentially correct according to recent measurements
of the actual garage which is still there!) then the angle of
the light source moved by about arctan(.336/7) = 2.7 degrees
UPWARD!!!.

_However_, the camera was farther from the wall in photo 2 than
it was in photo 1, so any dimension will appear smaller on the
negative.  How much farther in photo 2 than in photo 1?

Measuring the vertical dimension of the image ot the tank (top
of tank image to bottom of tank image) near the right end I
find:

photo 1 : 108 mm/8.25 = 13.1 mm on the negative

photo 2: 119 mm/8.18 = 14.5 mm on negative

Now, there is a horizontal parallax effect that is obvious from
the shift in camera positions (Trent moved about 5 ft to his
right and backward several feet to take the second shot. The
horizontal parallax makes it more difficult to compare distances
measured horizontally on the garage, such as the spacing between
rafter ends, in order to determine the relative distances of the
camera from the wall.. However, the vertical parallax is slight
(perhaps 6 inches over about 30 ft, the approximate distance of
Trent from the corner of the garage when he took the second
shot).

Thus we can say to a good approximation that the ratio of his
distance from the wall near the corner in photo 1 divided by the
distance for photo 2 is the inverse of the ratio of the heights
of the tank images. That is, for photo 2 he was 14.5/13.2 =
1.106 times farther from the wall than for photo 1. Hence any
VERTICAL measure on the wall when compared between photos 1 and
2 must be scaled by this ratio. (Note: this works because all
the vertical shadow measurements are on the same plane - the
wall surface. )

Thus, if the vertical measure of the spacing between the lower
of two board gaps and the horizontal shadow edge in photo 1 is
1.49 mm, then that same distance should appear in photo 2 as
1.49/1.106 = 1.35 mm. In other words, if there were NO movement
of the shadow we would expect the spacing between IMAGES to be
1.35 mm simply because of the increased distance of the camera
from the wall.

Now, note that this expected spacing is a trifle LESS than the
1.39 mm distance that was measured in photo 2.  That means that
either the measurements are difficult and that a difference of
0.03 mm in image measurement falls within the error bounds or
the shadow in photo 2 was actually HIGHER on the wall than in
photo 1..

In other words, the 0.03 mm difference could be a result of the
inability to get really precise measurements at this level of
accuracy or it could be interpreted as meaning that the shadow
actually moved UP the wall by an amount (0.03 mm/100 mm) x 28 ft
= 0.1 inches corresponding to an angle arctan (0.1/7) = 0.8
degrees. In other words, the "angular motion" interpretation is
that the light source moved downward 0.8 degrees.

So you can take you choice. Is there "fuzziness" in the
measurement or did the sun set in the morning?

..............................

Now lets look at the vertical shadow edges of the eave rafters.
Did they move sideways?

First consider the spacing between the first short (not the one
that sticks way out) and second rafter ends at the right side of
the garage wall (image). (2 by 4's spaced about 2 feet). In
photo one the center to center (or vertical edge to edge)
spacing is 4.89 +/- 0.05 mm from densitometer and traveling
microscope measurements. In photo 2 the same dimension is 4.96
+/- 0.05 mm.

The ratio is 4.96/4.89 = 1.014 +/- 0.01.

(A remarkable near coincidence of values since we know he was
1.106 times farther from the wall when taking photo 2.  How to
explain this? The angle of view was different. In photo 1 the
actual spacing between rafter ends was foreshortened by the
cosine of his viewing angle (angle between the wall and the line
to the camera). When taking photo 2 he was at a different angle,
more perpendicular to the wall, so the foreshortening was less.
That is the cosine factor was closer to unity for the second
shot. Based on his distance alone we would expect the spacing of
the rafter images to be about 4.89/1.106 = 4.42 mm.  However, we
measured 4.96, so the ratio of the cosine foreshortening factors
must be 4.96/4.42 = 1.122.  Now, of course, there are lots of
combinations of cosine factors, corresponding to lots of pairs
of viewing angles (pair: angle for photo 1 and angle for photo
2) which could give this ratio.  To find out what the angles
actually were we would need at least one (and then we could
calculate the other). However, it is not necessary to know the
actual angles to determine if the shadows of the eave rafters
moved between shots.)

The distance from the center of the shadow under (just to the
left of) the SECOND short eave rafter from the right (corner of
the garage image) to the edge of the garage wall at the level of
the vertical center of the shadow (got that?) is 5.1 +/-0.05 mm
in photo 1 and the same distance is 5.22 +/- 0.05 in photo 2.
Now the combination of angle and distance changes which caused
the spacing between rafter ends to increase from 4.89 to 4.96
would cause the same relative increase in the spacing of the
rafter shadows if there were no shadow motion between pictures.
I find

5.1+/- 0.05 mm in photo 1 times 1.014 +/-0.01 = 5.07 to 5.27mm.

This result clearly encompasses 5.22+/- 0.05 mm. Hence it
appears that the slight increase in distance of the shadow,
which was interpreted as a result of motion of the light source,
can be attributed to the fact that Trent took the second photo
from a different location.

CONCLUDE: any seeming position shift of shadows can be
attributed to changes in position of the camera. (unless the sun
wa setting in the morning  :)  )







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   May > May 25

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 03:14:33 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:17:55 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: James Easton <voyager@ufoworld.co.uk>
 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 02:07:40 +0100
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:20:43 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >There's a 'UFO' photograph which may not be well known and which
 >depicts an object similar to the 'flying saucer' photographed by
 >Paul Trent on 11 May, 1950.

<snip>

 >All I can ascertain is that the more recent photograph was
 >apparently taken by Herr Walter Schilling, on 3 Jul 1977, in
 >Hamburg, Germany.

 >It was subsequently confirmed that Schilling was, perhaps no
 >great surprise, apparently a well known hoaxer and much worse.

<snip>

 >Although there may arguably be striking similarities, the
 >unanswered question is where Schilling's hoax 'saucer' came
 >from.

 >If, and I doubt this, it was modelled on the Trent photos, then
 >that offers an explanation.

Trent photos -- 1950.  Schilling photo 1977. The Trent photos
are certainly among the most famous and widely circulated UFO
photos of all time. But to our friend, its a stretch that
Schilling could have seen the photos and modelled a hoax UFO
after them.

 >Otherwise, if Schilling had used an available saucer-like object
 >which he thought might look like a 'flying saucer', we do have
 >to ask what earthly artefact so resembled the purported alien
 >spaceship technology which the Trents astonishingly managed to
 >capture on film.

Keep it up James. Your logic is so incredible that even
debunkers cringe when they read it.

David Rudiak








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   May > May 25

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:26:34 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


[Non-Subscriber Post]

 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:47:26 -0300
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: The COMETA Report
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >3. For those who would like a copy of the 90 page English
 >Translation of the COMETA Report, I am making copies available,
 >as noted on Coast to Coast a few weeks ago, for only $10.
 >including first class postage from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME
 >04730-0958. Or call toll free 877-457-0232 to use VISA or Master
 >Card..

 >Stan Friedman


Mister the Director of list UFO UpDates - Toronto

Dear Sir,

I took note with great surprise of the message of Stan Friedman
on your list (24 May 2000) in which he proposes to sell a
translation in English of the 90 page 'COMETA Report: What Should
We Prepare For?'.

Stan Friedman did not aquire any authorization from us. I point
out that COMETA Report is protected (page 4) by the Copyright
and that all reproduction, in whole or in part, translation and
adaptation rights are reserved for all countries.

COMETA is going to publish the translation of this Report in
English in the United States.

The advertisement of Stan Friedman causes us damage.

I will take legal action against him for counterfeit and
plagiarism and also against all people who would buy its
translation.

I ask you to publish this message on your list.

Michel Algrin
Attorney-At-Law
Director of COMETA








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                          Re: Re: The COMETA Report

From: Steven G. Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:36:22 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:41:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >Subject: The COMETA Report
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >[Non-Subscriber Post]

 >>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:47:26 -0300
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>To: updates@sympatico.com

 >Mister the Director of list UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >Dear Sir,

 >I took note with great surprise of the message of Stan Friedman
 >on your list (24 May 2000) in which he proposes to sell a
 >translation in English of the 90 page 'COMETA Report: What Should
 >We Prepare For?'.

 >Stan Friedman did not aquire any authorization from us. I point
 >out that COMETA Report is protected (page 4) by the Copyright
 >and that all reproduction, in whole or in part, translation and
 >adaptation rights are reserved for all countries.

 >COMETA is going to publish the translation of this Report in
 >English in the United States.

 >The advertisement of Stan Friedman causes us damage.

 >I will take legal action against him for counterfeit and
 >plagiarism and also against all people who would buy its
 >translation.

 >I ask you to publish this message on your list.

 >Michel Algrin
 >Attorney-At-Law
 >Director of COMETA

Dear Mr. Algrin,

The last thing we need right now is more legal actions directed
at researchers in the field trying to uncover the truth of these
matters.

I am sure Stan Friedman was only trying to get the COMETA
document out to other researchers who badly need full access to
an English translation.  He will most certainly retract his
offer, now that he knows of your concern.

If it is your intention to publish an English translation,
please get on with it. It should have been done simultaneously
with the French publication. Its absence has made it much
easier for the top-tier American media to ignore the report and
much harder for people like myself to motivate journalists to
take on the report. Fortunately, one such journalist, Leslie
Kean, has done so with predictable positive results.

There is great support and interest in this country for COMETA.
We want you to proceed with further investigations and expand
your field of study.

Right now it is critical that we support each other, not sue
each other. There are already enough obstacles being placed in
our path by opponents of full disclosure of the UFO/ET reality.
No need to add more of our own.

Regards,
Stephen Bassett
Paradigm Research Group
X-PPAC








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                 Happy Birthday... Belated - And A Question

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 13:52:08 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:44:22 -0400
Subject: Happy Birthday... Belated - And A Question


Dear EBK, Lister Twisters and Entities Lurching ...
Lurking. Sorry,

Yesterday, 24 May, 2000, was the birthday of one Mr. Robert
Zimmerman, aka, Bob Dylan. I thought it fitting, in light of the
latest count (832.5) of posts on the subject of the Mac, Minnie
and Willy photos, to mention this. I have always claimed that
there is a line in a Bob Dylan song to fit every occasion. This
one's no different. I believe the appropriate take is from
"Maggie's Farm." It goes, (You) ... "Sing while you save, but I
just get bored ..."

He never worked on Maggie's Farm again.

Let me also take this opportunity to send a message to Jenny
Randles. I have attempted to research information regarding
engine and light shut down in the presence of UFO's. In your
book, "The UFO Conspiracy" subtitled "From The Official Case
Files of the World's Leading Nations," I found ample numbers of
cases where such occurred.

Levelland - Pendle Hill - as well as numerous documented cases
of military and commercial aircraft having their electronics
affected adversely. Only in one case in the entire book (if
memory serves) where a witness's car engine and lights shut
down, he turns the ignition key (in a Vauxhall I think) and
nothing happens. After the UFO leaves, " ... the engine starts
back up .."

Jenny, do you have any further detail on this issue? Did the
engine really just start up? Or did the operator attempt to
start it, and it worked? This issue is rather critical to my own
experience with my mother, father and myself on the way to the
Adirondack Mountains from the Bronx on vacation. It was about
4:30 AM, dark and _very suddenly_ misty on the New York State
Thruway. This was in the 50's I think, or when the Thruway was
brand spanking new.

None of the three witnesses may recall whether the car started
or was stared by dad. Each of our memories is different or non
existent in this matter. I do still require more info, more data
in this matter.

And after this I promise never to work on Maggie's Farm no more.

Jim Mortellaro, Still searching, after all these years.








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   May > May 25

                Stan Deyo - A Lecture Night In Queensland, Oz

From: Diane Harrison Director AUFORN <tkbnetw@powerup.com.au>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 00:56:35 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:49:36 -0400
Subject: Stan Deyo - A Lecture Night In Queensland, Oz

8TH JULY 2000 in Brisbane Australia

The Australian UFO Research Network
Presents A Lecture Night With

Mr. Stan Deyo
Author of
The Cosmic Conspiracy.
The Viniticator Scrolls

Don't miss this his last Australian Conference
Doors open 6.00pm 6.30pm start

Topic: Advanced Saucer Technology An Update

This will be Stan's last conference in Australia as he is going
back to California USA to start a new job with Aerospace,
working on propulsion systems and new aviation technology.

$25.00 per ticket a discount on group bookings

A light supper, tea & coffee included.

Pay by Bankcard, MasterCard, Visa, all Cash or Cheques
to Earthlink Publishing Pty Ltd
PO Box 805 Springwood 4127
Queensland

For More details call Diane or Robert onTel/FAX 07 38088567
in Australia only or E-mail tkbnetw@powerup.com.au

So be Early :>) and don't miss out "limited seating".
Venue Kimberley Park Community Centre
Corner of Roselea Rd & Lyndale Street,
Shailer Park  Queensland

Regards Diane Harrison

Director Of The Keith Basterfield Network Australasia
Co Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE KEITH BASTERFIELD NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: tkbnetw@powerup.com.au
E-mail: ufologist@powerup.com.au
http://www.powerup.com.au/~tkbnetw

ADMINISTRATION:

THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

PO Box 805
Springwood  Qld  4127
Australia
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Disclaimer: The Keith Basterfield List Owners are not
responsible for the content or misuse of this list.
However, personal insults, flaming will not be tolerated.
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>







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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:08:24 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:58:37 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >To: fsphys@brunnet.net <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 11:16 AM
 >Subject: Re: COMETA Report


 >Mr Friedman,

 >I received your @ mail.  I assure you the will of COMETA to
 >prohibit any diffusion and sale of some translation of its
 >Report. COMETA does not want royalties. It is very clear.
 >COMETA hopes sincerely that you send one e-mail to UFO UpDates
 >- Toronto explaining that there was an error in your first
 >e-mail (24 May 2000) and that you do not sell translation of
 >COMETA Report. I thank you for me for sending a copy of it to
 >put a term at this business.

 >Best regards.

 >Michel Algrin
 >Attorney-At-Law
 >Director of COMETA

 >N.B. COMETA Report quoted in its bibliography a book of
 >reference which gives an account of your works.


Mr. Algrin:

One problem with Email is that one does not always know who the
sender is... that is why I gave you my fax and phone numbers. I
notice you haven't returned the favor.

There is indeed a Michel Algrin listed in the Translation of the
COMETA report as an attorney-at-law. I have no way of knowing
who you are, however, especially since you have used the terms
"plagiarize" and "counterfeit".

I do not have my name on the translation nor my address. I did
not change a word. I do not claim the report as my work. To the
best of my knowledge it is true copy of what might be described
as an official translation. Counterfeit? Plagiarize? Doesn't
sound like an attorney to me. Many free copies were provided to
journalists in an attempt to get them to do articles.

You mention there is a reference in the bibliography that gives
an account of my work. The only thing that comes close is Jerome
Clark's 1990 work. That was, of course, done before my 1992 book
"Crash at Corona: The Definitive Story of the Roswell Incident"
(with co-author Don Berliner), or my 1996 book TOP SECRET/MAJIC
or my CD ROM or videos or a bunch of papers. I have, of course,
written about such topics as UFO propulsion,
magnetoaerodynamics, etc in, for example, my 1969 Congressional
Testimony when I was working as a nuclear physicist on Nuclear
Rockets and in Aeronautics and Astronautics, Physics Today,
etc...

I trust that as an attorney, if you are indeed Michel Algrin,
you are aware that there are libel laws? I even won a libel
action in the UK a number of years ago.

Before I write saying "I made an error," in trying to make
available copies of an important piece of work, (otherwise
unavailable) I would like to see a fax from you on your
letterhead.

I would like an apology for your suggesting I was counterfeiting
or plagiarizing. I would also like to know just when you plan to
publish the translation so I can inform people as to how they
will eventually be able to obtain your "official" version. Then
I could say "no more sales by me" in good faith.

For all I know you are some noisy negativist posing as Michel
Algrin to keep people from obtaining the information in the
COMETA Report.

I should add that I have had a problem with people making
totally false claims about me on the internet...

My fax number is 506-450-3832. I don't hide and would happy to
provide you with a copy of my letterhead if you provide a fax
number. Perhaps you would be interested in publishing my books
in French?

Stanton T. Friedman










   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 25

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5 Number 21

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:09:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:12:06 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 5 Number 21


      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 5, Number 21
May 25, 2000
Editor: Joseph Trainor

mailto:Masinaigan@aol.com

http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/


CHUPACABRA STRIKES
AGAIN IN CHILE

      Chupacabras struck again last week at two
locked henhouses in Lebu Alto, a farm village on
the outskirts of the city of Concepcion, which is
300 kilometers (180 miles) south of Santiago de
Chile, the national capital.
      According to the Chilean newspaper Diario
El Sur, "The attacks occurred in two different
locations, and in both, witnesses claim having
seen a beast with similar characteristics.  The
attacks on the henhouses in the Lebu commune
by an unknown being bolsters the existence of
the mythic 'Chupacabras' in the area, more
specifically in the province of Arauco."
      "In the early morning hours yesterday (Saturday,
May 13, 2000) in the Lebu Alto section, two families
claimed to have been victims of strange events which
caused the deaths of 24 hens."
      "The event, confirmed by the Lebu Carabineros
(Chile's national police--J.T.) took place at 4 a.m. on
Saturday morning.when an unidentified resident heard
a noise in her henhouse.  Getting out of bed and going
outside, she found that her dogs were calm--even fearful--
despite the fact that something was going on in the
henhouse.  As she approached the gate, she told police,
she managed to see a rounded figure jump away from the
chicken coop and go around the base of a nearby hill,"
the Cerro La Cruz.  "Upon entering the henhouse, the
witness confirmed that 17 of her 19 hens were dead with
visible signs of tearing."
      "Shortly afterward, the chicken coop of a neighboring
farm was also attacked, and another resident gave a similar
account.  At 8 a.m., the Carabineros were notified of these
events.  Police elements reported to the scene and verified
the animals' deaths.  The carcasses were collected and sent
to Concepcion for further analysis."
      In its May 15, 2000 edition, Cronica, the other newspaper
of Concepcion, made the claim that three Chupacabras had
been captured by the Chilean army near a local copper mine
and turned over to the custody of agents of the USA's Federal
Bureau of Investigation (FBI).
      Cronica reported, "Radio Padahuel and (TV) Channel 13
transmitted news reports indicating that a family of strange
creatures--possible 'Chupacabras'--had been found by
military personnel in the vicinity of the Radomiro Tomic
(copper) mine within the Second Region."
      "According to information provided by Radio Pudahuel,
it was a female, a male and a cub--a story which has the
ring of The X-Files around it--and were delivered to agents
of the USA's FBI agency which arrived at Calama from
Santiago (where the USA federal police have an office in
their embassy)  The creatures quietly would have been
taken to the USA"
      "No further mention of the event was made, but police
sources told Cronica that the capture of the specimens
was real and that everything had transpired as was
originally told" on Radio Pudahuel.  (See Diario El Sur
for May 14, 2000 and Cronica for May 15, 2000.  Muchas
gracias a Scott Corrales, autor de los libros, Chupacabras
and Other Mysteries y Forbidden Mexico y tambien Gloria
Coluchi para esas historias.)
(Editor's Comment: If the report about the Radomiro Tomic
mine is true, then this is the third report we've seen this
year of a "secret team," either FBI or NASA, hunting for
aliens in South America.  See UFO Roundup, volume 5,
number 5 and 20 for the earlier stories.)

MYSTERIOUS BLACK PANTHER
SIGHTED IN ITALY

      Italian ufologists are investigating reports of a large
black panther said to have killed and mutilated
livestock in the province of Tarquinia, 110 kilometers
(66 miles) north of Rome.
      "In Tarquinia, numerous reports of a ferocious animal,
said by some to be a panther, have circulated."  In late
February, "a cow was found dead in a field 1.5 kilometers
from a stock breeding farm located just south of Aurelia
Bis.  The animal had been in the field for two or three days.
The flesh had been stripped from its bones, and all that
remained was the spine.  People in the area continually
talk about the problem."
      "The last sighting was on the border with Tuscania
(Italy's Tuscany province--J.T.)  Umberto Angelini was
horseback riding in a farm area near Pisciarello when he
spotted the strange creature a considerable distance away."
      According to Commandante Amorevole of the local
Carabineri (Italy's national police--J.T.), "'Angelini was a
good distance away, not in close proximity to the animal.
He was about 400 meters away from the field, and he saw
a great black animal--a beast able to rip the flesh right
off the carcass of any animal weighing 60 kilograms and
carrying it away..'"
      The Carabineri "excluded the possibility of the animal
being an escaped lion or tiger.  They also excluded as the
culprit a selection of other known predators."  (Grazie a
Alfredo Lissoni di Centro Ufologico Nazionale d'Italia per
questo rapporto.)

MOTORIST ENCOUNTERS A
RED UFO IN AUSTRALIA

      In early April 2000, a 35-year-old man "was driving
towards Paraburdoo, north of the Tropic of Capricorn
and just south of Karratha and Port Hedland in the
Hamersley (Mountain) Range" in the state of Western
Australia when he encountered a UFO.
      ""He was driving at night and saw a red light ahead
of him.  The light paced his car no matter what speed
he drove at."
      "After some time he stopped because he felt that
the light was just playing games with him, and because he
realized he had bent his steering wheel by gripping it so
hard.  The light also stopped about 500 metres ahead
of him."
      "The witness then decided he had had enough so he
planted his foot and accelerated toward the light.  The red
light then rose into the air, changed into a white light and
produced a spotlight beam down toward the road.    It
then went further up into a storm cloud which it seemed
to illuminate from the inside for a while, and then it
disappeared."
      "When the witness reached the next petrol station
stop, he asked a lady there if anyone had seen anything
similar.  At first she seemed reluctant to comment, but
then she opened up and said that people had had similar
sightings in the area."  (Many thanks to ufologist Simon
Harley-Wilson and Diane Harrison of the Australian
UFO Research Network for this story.)

RADAR SPOTS "GHOST PLANES"
IN LAKE MICHIGAN TRIANGLE

      For the past five weeks, air traffic controllers at the
O'Hare International Airport in Chicago, Illinois have been
seeing images of "ghost planes" on their radar sets,
usually in the skies of the Lake Michigan Triangle.
      The Triangle is an area of Lake Michigan which runs
from Ludington, Michigan south to Benton Harbor, Mich.,
then across the lake to Manitowoc, Wisconsin and then
back to Ludington.
      According to the Chicago Sun-Times, "False radar
images have been popping up on the screens of O'Hare
International Airport's air traffic controllers, forcing pilots
to take sudden turns unnecessarily."
      "At least a dozen 'ghost planes' have been reported
during the last few weeks, the newspaper said, citing
documents from the Terminal Radar Approach Control
Center in Elgin, Illinois (population 78,000)."
      "Controllers said that at least a few times they have
ordered pilots to take sudden turns to avoid what
appeared to be planes on their radar, potentially
putting passengers at risk."
      "'The ghosting is a complete terror for air traffic
controllers,' said Charles Bunting, president of the
Elgin local the National Air Traffic Controllers
Association."
      Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) spokesman
Tony Molinaro "said there have been 13 ghost images
in the last five weeks rather than the usual eight or nine
the FA would normally expect in this time period.,
'meaning we shall need to look into them.'"
      "But Mike Egan, vice president of the controller's
union at Elgin, accused the FAA of playing down the
problem.  'Maybe 130, but not 13,' Egan said Friday
(May 19, 2000).  'We had a couple of them today, as a
matter of fact.  They know there's a problem.'"  (See
the Chicago Sun-Times for My 21, 2000. Many thanks
to Steve Wilson Sr. for this newspaper article.)
(Editor's Comment:  It's possible that the recent upsurge
in solar activity is behind this phenomenon.  Either
causing the "ghost plane" echoes themselves.  Or by
"opening the Triangle" and allowing the O'Hare radar
sets to sweep the skies of the past...or the future.)

DAZZLING UFO SEEN ON
LAKE ERIE'S SOUTH SHORE

      On Sunday, May 21, 2000, at 11:30 a.m., Sarah M.
was at Sheffield Lake, Ohio (population 9,800), a town
on the southern shore of Lake Erie, when she spotted
a dazzling gleam in the sky.
      According to Sarah, the UFO approached from the
north, over Lake Erie, and then shot away to the east.
She described the object as "a shape about like an oval
and a square.  It was very bright.  I practically had to
use sunglasses.  Was going slowly but not too slow.
Really bright, almost like the sun's rays.  It was about
15 feet tall and about 30 feet long, and was about 200 feet
(60 meters) above the ground.," with an estimated speed
of "about 30 miles per hour on approach and 60 miles per
hour flying away."
      Sheffield Lake is on Ohio Route 6 approximately
25 miles (40 kilometers) west of Cleveland.  (Email Form
Report)

MORE "BIG WAVE" DREAMS
REPORTED BY READERS

      UFO Roundup has received more reports from
readers about dreams involving a giant tidal wave.
      Steven M. had a dream in which he saw a giant
tidal wave hitting New York City.  He writes, "Funny--
I had the 'tidal wave' dream, too.  I was quite
surprised to read in UFO Roundup, volume 5,
number 18 that others have had the same dream."
      "But during my dream, prior to the arrival of the
tidal wave, people were watching fireworks.  I am skeptical
of prophecy and do not consider myself a prophet.
Nevertheless, I am a little apprehensive about the Fourth of July."
      "P.S. In my dream, after the tidal wave, there were good
communities rebuilding in a spirit of cooperation and hope."
      Jay S. formerly a resident of Melbourne, dreamed of a
giant 1,000-meter-high tidal wave hitting Sydney, Australia.
He writes, "More surprising for me to read, while reading your
UFO report, were stories of a tidal wave in people's dreams.
I, too, have had such a dream."
      "It is daytime.  It seems to be afternoon, but it is still
very light outside, a clear blue sky, and I am inside an
apartment, looking toward a picture window with a view
out to sea.  All I can see is water and the horizon
beyond. .Near the window, within the apartment, is
my mother."
      "Suddenly, I see an enormous wave rise up out of
the sea.  It is huge and black in colour.  It is so big.
I instantly realize we are about to die, that there is no
possible escape from it.  Feeling the sudden surge of
fear and helplessness, I crumple to the floor and crawl
with hardly any energy into the side hall, where I lay
awaiting the wave's dreadful impact.  I then wake up!"
      "Where did I feel this happened?  I remember the
dream as being in Sydney, the apartment as being
situated on South Head, looking out to sea, probably
around Dover Heights or environs.  If Dover Heights is
correct, then the wave in my dream was enormous,
maybe a kilometer in height."
      "Let's hope the wave-dream phenomena people are
having aren't prophetic ones!  Where do I live now?  In
the mountains of Victoria!"
      On Thursday, May 18, 2000, just before 1:45 a.m.,
your editor had another "weird weather" dream.  In this
dream I was merely an observer, not a participant.
      It was night.  I was looking out a window at teeming
rain and gale-force winds.  I heard a noise and looked
up, and I saw the underside of a helicopter.  It was a
large bulky model with landing skids instead of wheels.
The helicopter was about 75 feet directly overhead.  I
could barely hear its engine in the howling wind.  I
was very much surprised to see a helicopter up in
such rough weather.
      The helicopter descended to about 30 feet, directly
over the window, and began shining a bright spotlight.
My gaze followed the beam across a large plaza filled
with people.  It was absolute panic.  They were
running every whichway, bouncing off each other,
pushing, shoving and shouting, intent only upon
runn ing away.
      After a moment, I recognized the place--
the Praca Guerra in Diamantina, a mountain city
in the state of Minas Gerais in Brazil.  Windblown
orange roof tiles shattered against the stone walls
of the Cathedral of Santo Antonio.  Hurricane winds
bent the royal palm trees almost double.
      I knew something was very wrong.  Hurricanes
rarely go that far down into the South Atlantic. And
Diamantina is high up in the Serra do Espinhaco,
about 220 kilometers (132 miles) north of Belo
Horizonte.  Having a hurricane there is as unlikely
as having one in Denver, Colorado, USA.
      All at once, army trucks pull up in front of the
Banco do Brasil, and out come the soldiers.  They
are wearing black raingear and blue helmets.  But
they're carrying automatic rifles, not riot batons
and plastic shields.
      Seeing them, the civilians stampede out
of the plaza, heading up the Rua Quintanda.  The
people are terrified.  Officers shout orders, and the
troops fall in, forming two-man columns.  And I
wake up.  Check the clock--1:45 a.m.  Grab the
notebook and jot down the details.
      Now I haven't been to Diamantina in 22 years.
Ana Maria and I visited the town in 1978, toured
the homes of Xica da Silva and former Brazilian
president Juscelino Kubitschek, and saw the
caverns of Gruta da Salitre, rumored to be the
entryway into the "Inner World."  I can't understand
why it would figure so prominently in my dreams.
      If this was indeed a "dream of the Last Days,"
Diamantina could be in for a rough time in the future.

PEOPLE'S RALLY AT GROOM
LAKE SET FOR JUNE 6

      An expected 300 to 500 concerned citizens are
expected to gather at the Area 51-Groom Lake facility
south of Rachel, Nevada on Tuesday, June 6, 2000.
      The rally will begin at 6 a.m. at the restricted
boundary line on Groom Lake Road in Lincoln County,
Nevada, and will last about three hours.
      The Area 51 People's Rally was started by Norio
Hayakawa of Torrance, California to protest USA
federal government secrecy around the Groom Lake
Test Facility and the environmental and other damage
that may have been done to workers at the facility.
(Editor's Note:  In 1999, President Clinton issued an
executive order exempting Area 51 and the Groom Lake
contractors from any liabilities stemming from violation
of USA environmental laws.)
      Hayakawa has recently retired from Area 51
research and has passed on his mission to Joerg Arnu, a
part-time resident of Rachel, Nevada..  Arnu is also the
webmaster for Dreamland Resort, the official home page
of Rachel's well-known establishment, The Little Ale-e-Inn.
      Rally organizers will hold a press conference at The
Little Ale-e-Inn in Rachel on Monday, June 5.  That evening,
there will be a camp-out at the border of the restricted
Groom Lake facility for those who will be attending the
rally at 6 a.m. on Tuesday morning.  (Many thanks to
Norio Hayakawa for this news release.)

SHUTTLE ATLANTIS ON FLIGHT
TO RENDEZVOUS WITH ISS

      "After a month's delay, space shuttle Atlantis
and its seven astronauts rocketed away" from Cape
Canaveral Friday, May 19, 2000, "on a mission to
fix the international space station (ISS)."
      "The shuttle lifted off in a spectacular dawn launch,
its exhaust plumes glowing as the sun peeked out
over the Atlantic"  The shuttle's "two spent solid-rocket
boosters painted parallel pink streaks in the sky as
they tumbled into the ocean."
      On early Sunday morning, May 21, 2000, Atlantis
"docked at the unfinished $60 billion outpost," the
International Space Station.  "After eight hours of
sleep, the seven Atlantis astronauts began making
preparations for the riskiest portions of their docked
operations."
      "Astronauts Jeff Williams and James Voss
ventured out of the shuttle about 10 p.m. Sunday to
begin work on the outside of the seven-story station."
      Construction tasks for the mission include repair
of a USA-made 209-pound crane whose base has
loosened since it was first installed a year ago;
assembly of the Russian-built 45-foot (14-meter)
telescoping construction boom; replacement of a
faulty communications antenna; and installation of
various cables and handrails for future spacewalkers.
      This is the first space mission for rookie Jeff
Williams.  Other crew members include Russian
cosmonaut Yuri Usachev, Susan Helms and Mary
Ellen Weber, who operates the shuttle's 90-foot
robot arm.  Helms is expected to return to the
space station in February 2001 as a member of the
first permanent crew.
      "During five days of docked operations, mission
commander James Halsell and pilot Scott Horowitz
will use the shuttle's thrusters to boost" the space
station's orbit to about 235 miles (376 kilometers).
      Due to recent surges in solar activity, the space
station's orbit had fallen to only 208 miles (332
kilometers), and boosting the station into a higher
orbit is a mission priority.  (See the Milwaukee, Wis.
Journal-Sentinel  for May 20, 2000, "Shuttle Atlantis
finally lifts off," page 4 and USA Today for may 22, 2000,
"Shuttle starts repair mission to space station,"
page 3A.)

from the UFO Files...

1972: UTAH'S MYSTERIOUS
           GADIANTON CANYON

      One of the strangest Highway Space Warp (HSW)
cases took place in southeastern Utah near the
railroad crossing of Modena, on the edge of the
Escalante Desert.
      There's a slickrock canyon just north of Modena
that bears the name of Gadianton.  It's a name that
brings a shudder to God-fearing Latter-Day Saints.
      "Among the freighters who hauled supplies to Pioche
(Nevada) in the seventies (1870s--J.T.) there grew up a
legend that a rocky gorge near the Nevada Line was
haunted by the Gadianton robbers, a terroristic
brotherhood which the Book of Mormon explains as
having sprung up among the Nephites and Lamanites
in the century before Christ."
      The Gadiantons were a mysterious sect of
assassins quite similar to the Bruder Schweigen of
Germany or the Crna Ruka of Yugoslavia.
      "Wide-eyed freighters told tales of rocks closing the
way, and of the canyon folding up to entrap them."
      Eventually the old Gadianton tales were
forgotten in Utah's Iron County.  Until May of 1972,
when four coeds from Southern Utah University (SUU)
were driving back to their dorm in Cedar City after
spending Saturday at a local rodeo in Pioche.  (All
names have been changed to protect the witnesses'
confidentiality--J.T.)
      Janna North had the wheel of her father's 1971
Chevrolet Nova, and Carol Abbott was in the passenger
seat.  Sitting in the back seat were Lisa Rochefort
and Bethany Gordon.  It was after 10 p.m. when the
girls crossed the Utah-Nevada state line nine miles
(14 kilometers) east of Modena.  And they were anxious
to get back to the campus before their housemother,
Mrs. Mortensen, locked the dorm doors.
      That stretch of Utah Highway 56 is pretty desolate,
all sand and sagebrush and ocotillo and Spanish bayonet,
with the red sandstone bluffs on the northern horizon.
So the girls were pretty happy when they finally spotted
the Union Pacific railroad crossing at Modena.  But just
past the rails, Janna noticed something strange.  Two
sets of blacktop highway headed off into the desert--one
veered sharply to the southeast, the other shooting
northeast toward the canyon country further north.
      "Which one do we take?" asked Carol.
      "Left," Janna said.  She knew that Cedar City was
46 miles (73 kilometers) to the northeast, and she
guessed that the canyon road would bring them home
much sooner.
      Five minutes later, the Chevy entered the red-rock
canyon.  Janna, who had been chatting with her friends,
suddenly noticed that the car's headlights were shining
more brightly on the pavement.  Looking closer, she let
out a gasp.  The white centerline was gone.  Instead of
black asphalt, they were driving on white cement..
      "Janna, up ahead!" Carol exclaimed.
      Janna gasped.  The highway ended abruptly at a
rocky cliff face.  Janna stepped down hard on the
brake pedal.  Fishtailing slightly, the Chevy screeched
to a stop in front of the cliff.
      "Oh, great!  A dead end!"  Putting the gear into
reverse, Janna swung the car's nose around.  "You'd
think they'd put up a few warning signs."
      "Now we've got to go all the way back to Modena,"
Bethany complained.
      "We're never going to make curfew," Lisa said.
      "We'll make good time once we're back on the
state highway," Janna assured them.
      Tense minutes passed.  Janna began to feel uneasy.
They were still rolling along, hemmed in by red canyon
walls.  But they should have been back out in the open
desert by this time.
      The canyon gradually gave way to open country.
The girls gasped.  Instead of moonlit desert, they saw
grain fields on the right and a large like, with stands
of ponderosa pine, on the left.
      Carol looked around in awe.  "This sure ain't
Modena!"
      "We must've gotten turned around back there,"
Janna said, her gaze darting back and forth.  "Where
the hell are we?"
      Up ahead Janna spied a roadhouse (tavern--J.T.)
and an adjacent parking lot.  It seemed to have a
neon sign, but she couldn't red it.  What should have
been letters were brightly-lit squiggles and curlycues.
Some men came out of the building.
      "There are some guys," Carol said.
      Bethany let out a giggle.  "Are they cute?"
      "Let's find out."  Lisa began rolling down the rear
passenger window.
      "Lisa!  We don't have time for this," Janna said.
      "Relax!"  Hastily she touched up her lipstick.
"I'm only going to ask them how to get back to the
highway."
      As Janna slowed down, she noticed a good deal
of consternation among the men.  As if they'd been
startled by some unknown animal.  Sticking her head
out the window, Lisa said, "Hi!  We're--"  And she let
out a terrified scream.
     "Lisa!  What--!?"  Janna turned in her seat.
      "Get out of here!"  the girl screamed, frantically
rolling up the window.  "Punch it, Jana!"
      Bethany shrieked, "Step on it!"
      Tires sitting sand, the Chevy zoomed away from
the building.  Janna stepped down hard on the gas
pedal.  The lake flew by on her left.
      "Oh, my God!  They're coming after us!"
Bethany shouted.  "Janna, faster!"
      Janna glanced in her rear-view mirror, and what
she saw turned her blood to ice.  They were being
chased, but not by any vehicle that had ever been
built in Detroit.
      Four queer-looking automobiles followed in
their wake.  Egg-shaped vehicles mounted on
tricycle wheels.  That is, with two large wheels in
the front and a smaller wheel in the rear.  A single
bright white headlight shone from the front of each
pursuing "car."  They made a strange whirring or
buzzing sound as they rolled along.
      "Janna, go faster!  They're gaining on us!"
      Ahead the road led back into a red-rock canyon.
Janna's Checy plunged into it at 80 miles per hour.
The road was so narrow, it seemed to hem them in.
The Chevy's tires kicked up a billowing cloud of
dust.  They could no longer see their pursuers.
      Minutes later, they roared out of the canyon, back
into the familiar desert.  All at once, the road vanished.
The headlights showed nothing but sagebrush and
ocotillo.  The Chevy bucked and jostled like a wild
bronc.  Janna hit the brakes.  Too late!  The car
sideskidded down an arroyo and came to rest at
the bottom.
      Shaking uncontrollably, the girls emerged
from the car.  Miraculously they were unhurt.  The
Chevy took the worst of it, with three flat tires,
numerous dings in the front bumper and a missing
hubcap.  Jenna took one look and clapped both
hands to her forehead.  "Oh, no-no-no!  My dad's
going to kill me!"
      Lisa, however, was near-hysterical.  She sat
on the ground, hugging the knees of her bell-
bottom blue jeans, weeping and moaning, She
kept mumbling, "They-they weren't human..."
      The girls stayed with the car until sunrise.
Then they walked a couple of miles due south.
Boy, were they glad when they found the familiar
blacktop of Highway 56.  An hour later, they
flagged down a cruiser of the Utah Highway Patrol
and told their story.
      Trooper Vic Lundquist, who investigated the case,
noted several circumstances that were never
adequately explained.
      (1) There were no tire tracks showing where the
Chevy had left Highway 56 in Modena.
      (2) Tire tracks from the wrecked Chevy extended
only 200 yards back into the desert and ended
abruptly.
      (3) No one could explain how the Chevy had
gotten nearly two miles north of Highway 56 without
leaving any physical trace of its passage through the
rough desert terrain.
      (4) Although volunteers searched diligently, no
trace of the Chevy's right front hubcap was ever found.
      If Utah's Gadianton Canyon is, as some people
claim, a gateway to another dimension, then perhaps
Janna's missing hubcap is a prime exhibit--an "alien
artifact"--on display in a museum on that parallel
Earth.  (See the book Utah: A Guide to the State by
Hastings House Publishers, New York, N.Y., 1945,
page 298.)

Today's Quote:  "If God had wanted me to exercise,
he would have put diamonds on the ground."  Joan
Rivers.

     We'll be back in seven days with more UFO
and paranormal news from around the planet Earth,
brought to you by "the paper that goes home--
UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2000 by Masinaigan
Productions, all rights reserved.  Readers may post
news items from UFO Roundup on their websites or
in newsgroups provided that they credit the newsletter
and its editor by name and list the date of issue in
which the item first appeared.
*********************************************************
IMPORTANT Please Read:
======================

The Hunger Site
---------------
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deaths are children under 5. By visiting the Hunger Site
and clicking on a button you can donate free food.

There is absolutely no charge to you for the donation -
the food is paid for by sponsors.

Do this once a day (no more) and help make a difference!
If you have a web site download a banner and give a link!
*********************************************************

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm


Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>

UFOINFO: http://ufoinfo.com

Official Archives of the UK UFO Network Bulletin,
AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences,
UFO + PSI Magazine also available, plus archives of
Filer's Files.








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:20:27 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:08:45 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:10:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:03:39 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:50:28 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Let's see....

 >We can measure the shadows on the garage, the ground, the house,
 >the power lines, the trees, the poles, the roof, the pigs and
 >the cows and the hired help. And with all due respect to Bob's
 >efforts, none of this amounts to squat.

Squat?? The shadows tell us if the photos are consistent with
the Trents' story. Debunkers and skeptics and cynics like
yourself have falsely claimed that they are inconsistent and the
Trent's (for incomprehensible reasons) lied about the time of
day when the photos were taken, therefore lied about everything
else.

But the shadows when carefully analyzed show no such thing. The
photos were not taken in direct morning sunlight and remain
completely consistent with the Trents' story of them being taken
shortly before sunset.

 >The object of interest
 >is _still_ a fuzzy, black and white "thing" floating in the
 >middle of a blank sky with no reference points what so ever. It
 >doesn't go behind anything and is too small and grainy to
 >ascertain its identity or origin other than it looks
 >suspiciously like a milk can lid. In essence, you've got
 >information on everything in the bloody picture _except_ the
 >damned UFO!

Rubbish! As you very well know, relative luminance values can be
used to determine whether the object was more likely to be a
close object (hence a hoax) or a distant object (real).
Luminance measurements are consistent with a distant object. If
it was a hoax, then you have to account for the overly bright
shadowed bottom of the object.

If Trent had tossed an object, we very likely would have seen
some rotation of the offset "tower" on top and large motion blur
in both photos. Result: No detectable rotation and no expected
motion blur. Instead there is zero motion blur in photo 1 and
only slight motion blur in photo 2, completely consistent with
the Trents' story of how the object was moving when the photos
were taken and the known shutter speed of the camera. It also
turns out to be consistent with Trent's estimate of the elapsed
time between photos.

We can, therefore, at the very least, rule out a tossed object
and focus our attention on a suspended model. We can also begin
to wonder how the Trent's managed to square their stories so
exactly with these very suble photo details which are apparent
only upon extreme magnification.

If Trent had used an obvious suspension thread, then it could
have been detected and we wouldn't be having this conversion.
Hoax would have been proven a long time ago. Results: No
detectable thread.

Photos were taken from two different vantage points. The
positions in the sky relative to surrounding objects of known
position can be readily determined and again used to test for
hoax vs. the real thing. Results: The jury is still out, but it
is obvious that recreating the various photo details would not
have been easy and requires a lot of jumping through logical
hoops. That doesn't mean hoax is impossible, just very unlikely.

 >Is it the real thing? Personally, I'd like to think so. But the
 >bottom line is that you can ray trace until the cows come home
 >(and I think they've long since gone to bed) but you won't get
 >any closer to authenticating the UFO than a casual observer
 >would by looking at the photos with the naked eye.

In other words, you know it must be a hoax, so you don't want to
be confused with facts. That's classic debunkerism.

 >Finally, David wrote:

 >>You lose again.

I love being quoted completely out of context. The comment was
made regarding multiple pieces of evidence in the photos that
disproved that they were taken in direct morning sun.

 >Probably the most revealing bit of information you've passed on,
 >yet, David.

Huh?

 >I grow bored repeating the obvious...

You lose again Roger. All you've done is argue by proclamation.
To your discerning eye it is nothing but a fake. But you have
failed utterly to provide one single argument based on the
photos themselves that actually demonstrates that it is a fake,
or even that it is likely a fake.

If it was a fake, then take us through step by step and show us
how it was faked. Your hoax scenario must account for the
actual photo details. You repeatedly denigrate such details,
and I'm not surprised, because they totally discredit any of
your simplistic hoax scenarios, such as tossed pie pans.

The details in the photos CAN be used to test whether a hoax
scenario would work or not. I grow bored repeating the
obvious....

David Rudiak








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:17:34 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:16:28 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:56:36 -0400
 >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:42:39 +0100
 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>Why do we have to assume that the Trents had to get it right in
 >>just two shots? We don't know how many rolls of film they might
 >>have used up in previous unsuccessful attempts. And surely the
 >>point about a box camera is that the picture quality is fairly
 >>basic and does not allow too close an examination.

 >If you assume that every researcher that spoke with the Trents
 >was completely taken in by their seeming innocence, and couldn't
 >see through their fakery, your point is well taken.

 >To say that it is possible that they had faked the photos is
 >probably accurate, but that doesn't make it likely.

I'm not particularly taking one side or another here, just
pointing out that to assume the Trents only took two photographs
and wouldn't have had a few earlier practice shots, is not a
very logical argument.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:20:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:18:23 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 01:19:59 +0100
 >From: James Easton <voyager@ufoworld.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I'm also not comfortable with the idea that someone risked injury
 >by tying an object to overhead electrical wires, yet it seems the
 >most conceivable explanation in a hoax scenario.

It's just too simple a suggestion that they were able to turn
the electricty off, I suppose? Has anybody actually checked for
switches, plugs, fuses, etc?


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk









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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:20:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:20:41 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report

 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >Subject: The COMETA Report
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >[Non-Subscriber Post]

<snip>

 >Mister the Director of list UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >Dear Sir,

 >I took note with great surprise of the message of Stan Friedman
 >on your list (24 May 2000) in which he proposes to sell a
 >translation in English of the 90 page 'COMETA Report: What Should
 >We Prepare For?'.

 >Stan Friedman did not aquire any authorization from us. I point
 >out that COMETA Report is protected (page 4) by the Copyright
 >and that all reproduction, in whole or in part, translation and
 >adaptation rights are reserved for all countries.

 >COMETA is going to publish the translation of this Report in
 >English in the United States.

<snip>

It should be noted that legitimate news organizations may
request a copy of the translated COMETA report from the Fund for
UFO Research. Such requests will be handled on a case by case
basis, and inquries may be forwarded to:

request@fufor.com

A number of copies have already been distributed to known media
representatives, as well as Government leaders. However, a few
copies are still available for those who may have been missed
during the first distribution.

Steve










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                      [canufo] AQU-QAU Sighting Reports

From: Gilles Milot <milotg@Magnola.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:07:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:30:51 -0400
Subject: [canufo] AQU-QAU Sighting Reports

Quebec Association Of Ufology

Hi dear members of the list,

You will find attached two sighting reports that we are
presently investigating. It's our goal to publish all valuable
reports we will received. If you wish to contact the witnesses
please contact us first. Your comments are welcome.

BTW, the witness of the sighting report 2000-002a first called
the Canadian Ministry of National Defense to report his sighting
and they gave him the AQU phone number. The AQU phone number is
not in the phone book.

However, I understand that the number has been published many
times in newspapers and magazines and is in the files of the
Greater Montreal Reference Center but nobody from the Ministry
ever contacted me on that subject.

My feelings on the matter are divided. OK, if the Ministry has
decided to send us all the calls they received on UFO reports
but what about the alleged government cover-up? Is this a part
of the cover-up itself? And are we all filed in some dark
cabinets? Well I think I'm going too far, yeah! Too much movies
too.

Gilles Milot
Quebec Association Of Ufology

[.DOC files available by request from UFO UpDates --ebk]







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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:20:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:33:03 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>Could you be clearer on this last statement? I measured the
 >>shadow edge and compared it to the corner of the roof eave, the
 >>resulting 15 degree altitude could have been caused by morning
 >>Sun about an hour after sunrise,

 >The shadows are cast in two dimensions, not one.  Sure, you can
 >get a 15 degree sun elevation in the morning on any day of the
 >year, but can you _simultaneously_ get the sun's azimuth and
 >elevation right to cast the shadows as shown May 11 in the Trent
 >photos? The answer is no.

 >Here's a table of the sun's azimuth and elevation in the morning
 >on May 11 at Trent's position:>

 >Time               Azimuth    Elevation
 >6:30 a.m.           70.7           6.0
 >7:00                75.7          11.1
 >7:15                78.3          13.7
 >7:30                80.8          16.3
 >8:00                85.8          21.5
 >8:30                91.1          26.8>

Are these for daylight saving time?

DST didn't begin until Mother's Day, if I recall correctly.








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:22:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:14:49 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 01:19:59 +0100
 >From: James Easton <voyager@ufoworld.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >Regarding:

 >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >>Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 20:49:01 -0400
 >>Fwd Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 02:43:47 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Bruce wrote:

 >>Nor can the fakery of the Trents be supported with any fact...
 >>And, all the circumstantial evidence points against it. In fact,
 >>the only argument for a hoax is "flying saucers don't exist...
 >>there is no evidence that they exist..... therefore the Trents
 >>faked their pictures"

 >Bruce,

 >On its own, that's a prevailing argument.

 >Surely we understand by this time how the popularised 'flying
 >saucer' perception was founded on that misconstrued simile, which
 >Kenneth Arnold used to describe the undulating flight
 >characteristics of those nine 'bat-like' objects.>

 >If the chances of anything coming from Mars are a million to one,
 >the odds on it looking like a 'flying saucer' with a funnel are
 >even more remote.

Poor comparison. We know something about Mars and the "chances"
you mention. We don't know anything about what alien flying
craft are supposed to look like.

 >In addition to this foremost obstacle, the Trents story is
 >blatantly suspicious, even if it were absolutely true.

Sure. I was suspicious.
Then I invesigated.
Gradually, I became less suspicious.

 >They claim that a flying saucer came out of nowhere, headed
 >towards their farm where they waited with a camera, spool already
 >loaded, the 'saucer' conveniently almost stopped overhead and
 >they were able to take two high quality photographs before it
 >took off and nothing like it was ever seen again.

This is a trivializing way to put it. They did not claim the
saucer "came out of nowhere." They were not "waiting" with a
loaded camera. It didn't "conceniently almost stop overhead."


 >[As we know, the only comparative image, supposedly from a
 >photograph taken near Rouen in northern France, has no confirmed
 >origin].

Yes.

 >I agree it seems doubtful the Trents created a sophisticated hoax
 >and prefer the scenario suggested by our 'alien spacecraft' being
 >an outdoor light cover, or something similarly mundane.>

So it was a hoax using an outdoo light cover?
How about a 4 - 5 " pie pan?

 >One problem is how the object moved between shots - looks like it
 >can't have been blowing about in a strong wind as foliage in the
 >second photo seems to be completely undisturbed compared to the
 >first.

True.

 >I'm also not comfortable with the idea that someone risked injury
 >by tying an object to overhead electrical wires, yet it seems the
 >most conceivable explanation in a hoax scenario.

That's a no-brainer. 110 volts only. Stand on a chair. Throw
a thin thread or fishline . non-conductive...over the wire.

 >Where any fake saucer would probably have been suspended, how
 >high were these overhead wires?

I don't recall my calculations offhand but probably about 10 ft
at the location of the "saucer."

 >Incidentally, although I would expect these photos were taken in
 >the sequence we believe and not the other way around, is there a
 >reason we can be sure about this? Did anyone ever confirm what
 >was on the other negatives from that roll of film, ruling out the
 >possibility these were the two 'best' shots from a longer
 >sequence?

Trents have been consistent in saying which came first. I doubt
that the original "analyst," Bill Powell ,. compared edges with
other pictures in the roll to assure which came first.

 >Coming back to purported events, the following summary, edited to
 >remove references, is taken from:

 >http://www.temporaldoorway.com/ufo/report/500511.htm

 >Witness I [Mrs Trent] was feeding rabbits in the back yard, S of
 >the house and E of the garage when the object was first sighted,
 >apparently toward the NE. Witness II [Mr Trent] was apparently in
 >the house at this moment, as three of the accounts refer to
 >Witness I calling to him and running into the house to fetch him
 >from the kitchen, although one account states that they had "been
 >out in the back yard," and "both saw it at the same time."

 >Immediately after they both saw the object, apparently as it was
 >still in a NE direction, moving slowly toward the W, they thought
 >of their camera. Witness II ran to the car, thinking it  was
 >there, but Witness I remembered it was in the house and brought
 >it. Witness II took the camera, which was already loaded. The
 >roll of film had been purchased during the winter and already had
 >two or three shots on it.

[End]

 >Is it a bird, is it a plane... wouldn't most people try to
 >determine what the object was? Why did Mrs Trent immediately
 >believe it to be something extraordinary - this far away object
 >almost certainly being indistinct?>

She told me repeatedly... and others as well... that at first
she thought she was seeing a parachute moving through the
sky.Then she realized there was no man underneath and then as it
got closer that it was something really unusual... She suggested
that she believed it was some military device.  She never used
the term "flying saucer" when I talked to her for in two dozen
conversations spread over several years. Obviously it was close
enough for her to see some details at the time she first saw it.

 >Accepting the most common account, which places Mr Trent in the
 >house, considerable time must have elapsed since that initial
 >observation, e.g.:

 >- Mrs Trent is in the back yard and sees an unidentified object

 >- she calls to Mr Trent

Time from first observation maybe 5 seconds

 >- Mrs Trent runs into the house and tells him there's something
 >in the sky which she wants him to take a look at

and bring the camera Perhaps she didn't run into the house, but
simply yelled from where she was and waited for him.

 >- they both go outside to see if the object is still there

Yes and he starts taking the pictures.

 >- although it might still have been distant, they decide this
 >aerial artefact is sufficiently notable that it should be
 >photographed

Yup

 >- searching for his camera, Mr Trent runs to his car, however,
 >Mrs Trent recalls the camera is actually in the house and goes
 >to find it

Nope.  Already had camera when he ran out.

 >- she locates the camera and returns with it

See above

 >- Mr Trent focuses on the object, which it's presumably now
 >evident could be a flying saucer, and as it has obligingly
 >almost hovered in front of him, he is duly able to look down at
 >the viewfinder and fix the aerial vehicle close to centre frame

Time to this point... maybe 10-15 seconds, depending upon how
long it took him to find the camera in the house and rush
outside.

 >- he moves to the right and again has time to focus and frame,
 >obtaining another relatively excellent result.

Yup

 >Did the Trents ever express any fear that an unidentified
 >object, maybe a flying saucer, was coming increasing close to
 >their farm?

No.

 >When it was allegedly moving extremely slowly and just about
 >hovered whilst the photographs were taken, didn't they wonder if
 >it was about to land (what about those Martians with death
 >rays!)?

She never said they were afraid, only surprised and excited at
seeing what they apparently believed was a military vehicle.
(This is what Paul said in repeated interviews... he was afraid
that he might get into trouble for taking the pictures,
especially after the FBI came and interviewed them)

 >Of course, it might not have been clear until the last minute
 >how they may be encountering a flying saucer, which brings us
 >back to that question of why a distant, unidentified object -
 >which was possibly, or likely to be, an aircraft - should have
 >generated such excitement in the first place.

See above.

 >You have noted:

 > >Of more importance is the fact that everyone who knew the Trents
 >>told me that the idea of a hoax was beyond them... they just
 >>didn't have the mental capacity to think of anything outside
 >>their range of daily activities.

 >Far from being incapacitated, what actually distinguishes this
 >case is how the Trents were extraordinarily alert - to the
 >extent they apparently predicted this was to be an occurrence
 >which should be committed to film.>

Predicted? Clearly there was some "alertness" level to the
sudden observation of a strange object.

 >I'm sure we can all think of cases where claimed witnesses
 >lamented how they never thought about using an available camera
 >or camcorder.

Yes


 >>>Man, you must really think the Trents were stupid!

 >>You got it, man!









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                         NUFORA Conference Cancelled

From: Carolyn Buckley <cosmiccarrie@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 02:10:56 +0000 (GMT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:17:21 -0400
Subject: NUFORA Conference Cancelled


Dear All,

The proposed NUFORA Conference on 10th June 2000 at the Patten
Arms Hotel in Warrington, UK, has been cancelled due to
financial constraints. Apologies for any inconvenience caused.











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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:25:55 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:21:02 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:08:24 -0300
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:58:37 -0400
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report

 >>From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >>To: fsphys@brunnet.net <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 11:16 AM
 >>Subject: Re: COMETA Report


 >Mr. Algrin:

 >One problem with Email is that one does not always know who the
 >sender is... that is why I gave you my fax and phone numbers. I
 >notice you haven't returned the favor.

 >There is indeed a Michel Algrin listed in the Translation of the
 >COMETA report as an attorney-at-law. I have no way of knowing
 >who you are, however, especially since you have used the terms
 >"plagiarize" and "counterfeit".

<snip>

 >For all I know you are some noisy negativist posing as Michel
 >Algrin to keep people from obtaining the information in the
 >COMETA Report.

Stan's suspicions may be well-founded. How many French attorneys
have AOL accounts? I wasn't aware that _America_ Online had gone
international.

Since I am an AOL member and have access to member lists and
member profiles, I did a simple search. Among AOL's 20 million
or so members, there are none listed who go by the name of
Algrin, Michel or otherwise. And there is no member profile for
an AlgrinM.

This could very well be some "noisy negativist" logging on under
another name. AOL allows up to 5 separate e-mail accounts and
screen names per member account.

On the off-chance that this was a genuine e-mail from the real
Michel Algrin, my apologies. However, since this was posted to
UpDates by a non-member and seems highly suspicious, I think
List members should be aware of the information above.

David Rudiak









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                      Trenta Luna, Medzu Mare... Basta

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:52:11 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:25:36 -0400
Subject: Trenta Luna, Medzu Mare... Basta


Dear EBK, Lister Twisters and En Tities,

Those of you who know me understand that I never stick my nose
where it does not belong. Having finally confessed to this
failing, I must break with tradition and make a comment or two.
I know, this is unusual, but bare with me. Bear with me.

This Trent stuff. Some really bright people have already looked
into this scenario, such as Bruce Maccabee and so many others,
many of whom have several axes to grind. Actually, _no one_ has
been able to prove conclusively, that the photos were faked.
It's just one of those really strange thingies that happen
occasionally which, after years of analysis, anyone with half an
ounce of common sense just _has_ to come to two conclusions.
These are, in order of importance ...

1) The forkina horse _IS_ dead so stop beating it. It aint even
moving for cripes sake.

2) The Trent photos show something highly unexplainable. It is
called an Unidentified Flying Object, a UFO. See?

Now, can we get back to say, oh, Hoagies theories on
stereoptican Mars jive? Or maybe how NASA has been able to keep
the lunar, Martian and other secrets about how lizards took over
nine out of ten astronauts whilst in space? Huh?

Know wonder Dylan got bored with protest.

Jim







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                         PRG Press Release- 5/26/00

From: Paradigm Research Group <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 03:37:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:37:27 -0400
Subject: PRG Press Release- 5/26/00


             PRG
                  Paradigm Research Group

Press Release

                                  May 26, 2000

Washington, DC - The Boston Globe has published an
important article bearing on the UFO/Extraterrestrial
question in the Focus Section of its Sunday, May 21st
issue entitled: "Science and Society: UFO theorists gain
support abroad, but repression at home."

Written by freelance journalist, Leslie Kean, the article
places particular emphasis on the COMETA Report
published in France on July 17th, 1999 in a special
issue of VSD Magazine.

COMETA (in English, Committee for In-Depth Studies)
is notable because it is composed of former high ranking
members of the French government such as: General
Bernard Norlain,  commander of the French Tactical Air
Force and military counselor to the prime minister; Air
Force General Denis Letty; Andre Lebeau,  head of the
National Center for Space Studies (the French NASA) and
the French Institute of Higher Studies for National Defense,
a government financed strategic planning agency; as well
an admiral, national chief police, scientists and weapons
engineers.

The report titled 'UFOs and Defense: What Should We Prepare
For?' makes it quite clear that UFO/ET sightings should be
extensively re-examined and the most likely explanation for the
evidence to date is the "extraterrestrial hypothesis".
Significantly, it admonishes the United States government for
its repressive policies regarding public interest in the
phenomena.

The Paradigm Research Group believes the COMETA report marks a
significant break in ranks by a U.S. ally over the sequestration
of the truth regarding extraterrestrial related phenomena. The
United States government faces the embarrassing prospect of
another nation bringing an end to the formal cover-up in place
since 1947.

While it is not inappropriate for the disclosure process to
proceed in such fashion - the UFO/ET question is not an
'American' issue - the United States will certainly lose
considerable political influence, if its management of the
UFO/ET issue is forced into the open by actions of an allied
nation.

Leslie Kean will appear on Coast to Coast AM with Mike Siegel,
at 10 PM PST, Friday, May 26. It is the largest late night
radio talk program in the U.S. She will also be a guest on
Dreamland with Whitely Strieber, a national program aired on
most of the same radio stations, on Sunday, May 28 at 9 PM PST.
These programs broadcast on WWRC AM 570 in the DC metro area.

Contact:  Stephen Bassett
           301-564-1820
           ParadigmRG@aol.com









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 06:47:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:43:15 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 20:17:34 +0100
 >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >>If you assume that every researcher that spoke with the Trents
 >>was completely taken in by their seeming innocence, and couldn't
 >>see through their fakery, your point is well taken.

 >>To say that it is possible that they had faked the photos is
 >>probably accurate, but that doesn't make it likely.

 >I'm not particularly taking one side or another here, just
 >pointing out that to assume the Trents only took two photographs
 >and wouldn't have had a few earlier practice shots, is not a
 >very logical argument.

Speculation is certainly in order, but I don't believe there are
any indicators to support this line of reasoning. This event
took place some 48 years ago, and those who were directly
involved are not able to defend themselves, which happens to
make them an easy target for criticism. IMO the Trent's didn't
behave as if they were attempting to create a hoax, or as if
they were caught up in a practical joke that had gotten out of
hand. Researchers through the years have spoken to the Trents
and came away believing they were sincere folk, who really
didn't believe they had photographed a craft from another world.
Of course, like most of us I'm only able to view this through
the eyes of others who have written on the subject and have to
understand that this view may be filtered through the belief
structure of those investigators (at least as far as their
impression of the Trents is concerned).

Aside from the actual photographs there is very little that we
can actually go back to and re-investigate so many years down
the road. Investigators at the time, both military and
otherwise, did not come away from their investigation with the
idea that these photos were hoaxed, and without some sort of
recently discovered evidence to the contrary it would seem to
reflect more about the beliefs of those who generating the
speculation than it would those who were the subject of that
speculation.

Of course, this is only a..... er..... speculation.

Steve







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                 Browse 20,000 New Additions To Mars Gallery

From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:40:23 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:49:38 -0400
Subject: Browse 20,000 New Additions To Mars Gallery


Donald Savage
Headquarters, Washington, DC    May 22, 2000
(Phone:  202/358-1727)

Mary Hardin
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
(Phone:  818/354-0344)

Dr. Ken Edgett
Malin Space Science Systems, San Diego, CA
(Phone:  858/552-2650 x500)

RELEASE:  00-82

PUBLIC INVITED TO BROWSE 20,000 NEW ADDITIONS TO MARS PHOTO GALLERY

More than 20,000 new images of the planet Mars taken by NASA's
Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft are now available in a web-based
photo album -- the single largest one-time release of images for
any planet in the history of solar system exploration.

The 'picture postcard' scenes in the new images reveal the Red
Planet, often said to be the most Earth-like planet, as an
alien, bizarre and puzzling world.

"These are exciting times for Mars scientists and this release
of images is in my opinion something unprecedented in the Mars
science business," said Dr. Ken Edgett, staff scientist at Malin
Space Science Systems, San Diego, CA.  "People everywhere with
Internet access will be able to take their own personal journey
of exploration and discover Mars via these pictures. They can
experience them the same way that Mars Global Surveyor
scientists do -- one at a time, no captions or explanations,
just 'Here it is. What does it show me?'"

The archive of images now covers a period that spans one Mars
year (687 Earth days), beginning in September 1997 with pictures
taken during the aerobraking phase and extending through August
1999 when Global Surveyor was well into its mapping mission.
Many of the pictures have such high resolution that objects on
the surface the size of a school bus can be seen.

According to the Mars Orbiter Camera imaging team, placing these
images within NASA's Planetary Data System for archiving is an
important step in the Mars Global Surveyor mission that permits
the public to examine the original data and make discoveries
"for themselves."

"Putting these data into perspective is very difficult.  We have
focused on 'themes.' Layers on the Martian surface are the
biggest 'theme' or 'finding' of the imaging investigation so
far. To a geologist, layers record history and they are the most
geologically important, profound thing we have seen," said Dr.
Michael Malin, principal investigator for the camera system at
Malin Space Science Systems. "We see layers in the walls of
canyons, craters, and troughs. We see layers in both the north
and south polar regions. We see them in the craters on top of
volcanoes, we see them in pits at the bottoms of impact craters,
we see them virtually everywhere that some process has exposed
the subsurface so that we can see it from above."

"Seeing Mars up close through the narrow angle camera has been a
humbling experience. We often find surfaces for which there are
no obvious analogs on Earth, like certain ridges that look like
dunes. Our terrestrial geologic experience seems, at times, to
fail us," Edgett said. "Perhaps it is because water is the
dominant force of erosion on Earth, even in the driest desert
regions. But on Mars that force of change may have been
something else, like wind. The ridges seen in places like the
Valles Marineris floors are strange. They aren't dunes because
they occur too close together, their crests are too sharp, their
slopes too symmetrical. They often appear to be a specific layer
of material that has undergone erosion -- we just wish we knew
what processes are involved that cause this kind of erosion."

The camera system uses a "push-broom" technique that
systematically builds up pictures of the surface directly below
one line at a time as the spacecraft orbits Mars.  The
wide-angle lens provides a complete low-resolution global map of
the planet every day showing surface features and clouds at a
resolution of about 4.6 miles (7.5 kilometers).  The
narrow-angle telescope takes close-up pictures of small areas
with a resolution of about 5 feet (1.5 meters).  Because of the
extremely high data volume of the high-resolution images,
controllers cannot use this mode continuously. Instead, they
painstakingly plan which areas they want to target.

Mars Global Surveyor was launched on November 7, 1996 and
arrived at Mars on September 12, 1997.  The spacecraft has made
more than 5,000 orbits of and has been systematically mapping
the Red Planet since March 1999.

Mars Global Surveyor is managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, DC. The camera
system was built and is operated by Malin Space Science Systems,
San Diego, CA. JPL's industrial partner is Lockheed Martin
Astronautics, Denver, CO, which developed and operates the
spacecraft. JPL is a division of the California Institute of
Technology, Pasadena, CA.

- end -

NOTE TO EDITORS:  The archive of images can be found at:
http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/
A subset of the images can be seen at:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/new

and

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs

    * * *

NASA press releases and other information are available automatically
by sending an Internet electronic mail message to domo@hq.nasa.gov.
In the body of the message (not the subject line) users should type
the words "subscribe press-release" (no quotes).  The system will
reply with a confirmation via E-mail of each subscription.  A second
automatic message will include additional information on the service.
NASA releases also are available via CompuServe using the command
GO NASA.  To unsubscribe from this mailing list, address an E-mail
message to domo@hq.nasa.gov, leave the subject blank, and type only
"unsubscribe press-release" (no quotes) in the body of the message.








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                    Re: [canufo] AQU-QAU Sighting Reports

From: Gilles Milot <milotg@Magnola.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:53:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:15:24 -0400
Subject: Re: [canufo] AQU-QAU Sighting Reports

Quebec Association Of Ufology

 >You will find attached two sighting reports that we are
 >presently investigating. It's our goal to publish all valuable
 >reports we will received. If you wish to contact the witnesses
 >please contact us first. Your comments are welcome.

 >BTW, the witness of the sighting report 2000-002a first called
 >the Canadian Ministry of National Defence to report his sighting
 >and they gave him the AQU phone number. The AQU phone number is
 >not in the phone book.

<snip>

I just finished a phone call with the witness who confirmed that
he did call the Ministery of National Defence at St-Hubert, he
gave me the phone number) and then following his request to
report a UFO sighting, a woman told him that she will connect
him to the person responsible for these type of reports. (As per
the witness these were her exact words.)

Then, the witness was connected directly to my phone.

He never heard a ring, which of course I heard because I
answered the phone. But now I understand why he was so confused
on the phone and asked me who the hell I was and the name of my
office.

When I introduced myself, he was even more surprised that first,
there is an organisation that investigates these reports and
second, that I was living in Laval and that I was not in the army.

You can imagine what kind of conversation we had :-))).

The surprising thing is that I am connected with the Candian
National Defence Department without knowing it.

BTW, the connection was, according to the witness, very fast as
if my number was pre-programmed or was in the office next door.

Tomorrow I will phone them and will keep the list informed.

Gilles

AQU-QAU







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                          CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:24:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:24:28 -0400
Subject: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

Source: Cosmiverse - The Online Portal For Space
                      and Science Enthusiasts

http://www.cosmiverse.com/paranormal.html


CAUS Files Appeal Notice

May 24, 2000 08:32 CDT


Arizona-based Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) filed its
notice Tuesday that it will appeal a U.S. Circuit Court decision
to dismiss its lawsuit against the Department of Defense.

The suit was filed early last year, after the department
declined to release documents relating to triangle-shaped and
other unidentified flying objects. CAUS had filed a Freedom of
Information Act request for any documents, reports or other
information about such objects held by the Defense Department.
After requiring the Defense Department to define its search
parameters, Judge Stephen McNamee dismissed the suit in March.

"Not only was the DoD search inadequate and unreasonable, it was
a sham. No wonder they conveniently omitted (triangle-related)
terms in their original affidavits," said Gersten in March.
"This is proof that the DoD treated the CAUS request as a
typical request for UFO information and did not take it
seriously."

Following the dismissal of the lawsuit Mar. 30, CAUS immediately
launched an Internet campaign to raise $10,000 to appeal the
decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals.

"CAUS officially began the appellate process by filing its
Notice of Appeal in the U.S. District Court in Phoenix. Within a
few weeks CAUS will be sent a briefing notice that will schedule
the date for filing the CAUS brief. The appeal will be heard in
the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in San
Francisco," said CAUS attorney Peter A. Gersten on Tuesday. He
thanked Morgan Clements (www.ufosightings.net) for its
contribution of the filing fee for the appeal, as well as the
nearly 500 CAUS members who contributed to "this important and
necessary step in our struggle to obtain our unconditional and
absolute right to know the truth about UFOs, other intelligences
and their interaction with our species."

That said, Gersten said he's taking his first leave of absence
from CAUS, and going on vacation until June 10, visiting friends
and associates in New York.


Staff Writer Sally Suddock








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                          Two Million Watch For ET

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:29:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:29:26 -0400
Subject: Two Million Watch For ET

Source: Cosmiverse - The Online Portal For Space
         and Science Enthusiasts

http://www.cosmiverse.com/paranormal.html


Two Million Watch For ET

May 25, 2000 08:32 CDT

The University of California Berkeley reported a cosmic
milestone this past week: It signed on its two millionth home
computer in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.

In partnership with the Planetary Society in an organization
known as SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence), the
university is leveraging the (now 4 million) eyes of PCs owners
to process the voluminous data it receives as it scans the
universe for signs of life. Computer users download a SETI
screen-saving program that processes the data. Remembered as the
location of the sci-fi thriller "Contact," the data is retrieved
from a radio telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico.

Participants have logged 280,000 years worth of computing time,
said the Planetary Society. "Should a home computer ever detect
an alien signal, its user will merit a place in the history
books as one of the humans who opened the door to an incredible
new view of the cosmos," the society said.

Those wanting to join in the search can download the screen
saver at one of the following Web sites: http://planetary.org or
http://setiathome.berkely.edu


Staff Writer Sally Suddock









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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:39:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:08:21 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:25:55 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Stan's suspicions may be well-founded. How many French
 >attorneys have AOL accounts? I wasn't aware that _America_
 >Online had gone international.

 >Since I am an AOL member and have access to member lists and
 >member profiles, I did a simple search. Among AOL's 20 million
 >or so members, there are none listed who go by the name of
 >Algrin, Michel or otherwise. And there is no member profile for
 >an AlgrinM.

 >This could very well be some "noisy negativist" logging on under
 >another name. AOL allows up to 5 separate e-mail accounts and
 >screen names per member account.

 >On the off-chance that this was a genuine e-mail from the real
 >Michel Algrin, my apologies. However, since this was posted to
 >UpDates by a non-member and seems highly suspicious, I think
 >List members should be aware of the information above.

Maybe our honorable moderator has retained the original message
with headers. If so, he might wish to forward a copy to:

abuse@aol.com

depending on the result of your search, David. Impersonating a
lawyer and making threats would certainly violate the user
agreement with AOL. I have taken such action more than once and
have found AOL to be quite cooperative and agressive in
responding.

Regards,

Terry








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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:12:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:12:18 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:39:20 -0400
 >From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:25:55 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Stan's suspicions may be well-founded. How many French
 >>attorneys have AOL accounts? I wasn't aware that _America_
 >>Online had gone international.

 >>Since I am an AOL member and have access to member lists and
 >>member profiles, I did a simple search. Among AOL's 20 million
 >>or so members, there are none listed who go by the name of
 >>Algrin, Michel or otherwise. And there is no member profile for
 >>an AlgrinM.

 >>On the off-chance that this was a genuine e-mail from the real
 >>Michel Algrin, my apologies. However, since this was posted to
 >>UpDates by a non-member and seems highly suspicious, I think
 >>List members should be aware of the information above.

 >Maybe our honorable moderator has retained the original message
 >with headers. If so, he might wish to forward a copy to:

 >abuse@aol.com

<snip>

A useful suggestion Terry - I've pasted, below, an excerpt from my
my query to AOL.

ebk

_____________________________________

[Begin Excerpt]

Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:57:27 -0400
From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
Subject: A Potential Legal Matter...
X-Sender: b1cwvt41@POP2.sympatico.ca
To: abuse@aol.com
Cc: updates@sympatico.ca
Message-id: <4.2.0.58.20000526084456.00b1e800@POP2.sympatico.ca>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hello 'abuse' folk,

In view of the litigious potential in the message below, can you
confirm that the sender, is who he says he is?

My thanks for your assistance,

Errol Bruce-Knapp,
Moderator, UFO UpDates - Toronto

-----

Return-path: <AlgrinM@aol.com>
Received: from smtp26.bellglobal.com by l.pop2.sympatico.ca
  (PMDF V5.2-33 #41556) with ESMTP id <0FV30022OYUSKN@l.pop2.sympatico.ca> for
  b1cwvt41@pop2.sympatico.ca; Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:16 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.3])
  by smtp26.bellglobal.com (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA27553 for
  <updates@sympatico.ca>; Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:01 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from AlgrinM@aol.com  by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v27.9.)
  id 1.28.617e2c1 (3868)        for <updates@sympatico.ca>; Thu,
  25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: AlgrinM@aol.com
Subject: COMETA Report Freidman
To: updates@sympatico.ca
Message-id: <28.617e2c1.265e482d@aol.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 30
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

Mister the Director of list UFO UpDates - Toronto

Dear Sir,

I took note with great surprise of the message that Stan Friedman passed on
your list (24 May 2000) in which he proposes to sell a translation
in English of  90 page COMETA Report: "What should we prepare for?".

[End Excerpt]








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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:12:59 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:52:14 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:25:55 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Stan's suspicions may be well-founded. How many French attorneys
 >have AOL accounts? I wasn't aware that _America_ Online had gone
 >international.

What? AOL has been international for a long time. And the fact
that the guy has no member profile means absolutely nothing.
Unless he fillled out a member profile, he wouldn't have one.

This guy may be a fraud and he may be for real. But Stan has an
easy answer. Just have the guy fax Stan on a company letterhead.
In the meantime, the speculation is a waste of time. It looks l
ike paranoia.

Joe in Tampa









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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Craig Beasley <craig_beasley@usa.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:24:22 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:39:00 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report

Hello List,

This COMETA report seems to be a pretty major event, and it's
grabbed a lot of attention. While so many people are focusing on
this, are there any other items/events getting under our radar,
so to speak?

An idle thought...

Craig








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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Terry Blanton <commengr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:31:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:41:13 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:12:59 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Joe Murgia <Ufojoe1@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:25:55 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Stan's suspicions may be well-founded. How many French attorneys
 >>have AOL accounts? I wasn't aware that _America_ Online had gone
 >>international.

 >What? AOL has been international for a long time. And the fact
 >that the guy has no member profile means absolutely nothing.
 >Unless he fillled out a member profile, he wouldn't have one.

Yes, http://www.aol.fr/ is owned by:

CompuServe, Inc. (NET-COMPUSERVE)
5000 Arlington Centre Blvd.
Columbus, OH 43220
US

Netname: COMPUSERVE
Netnumber: 149.174.0.0

Coordinator:
Crone, David  (DC411-ARIN)  hostmaster@COMPUSERVE.COM
614-457-8600 (FAX) 614-457-0348

Domain System inverse mapping provided by:

ARL-NAME-SVC-1.COMPUSERVE.COM149.174.211.5
DUB-NAME-SVC-1.COMPUSERVE.COM149.174.213.5

Record last updated on 13-Apr-1999.
Database last updated on 26-May-2000 06:10:59 EDT.

according to http://whois.arin.net/.  This is not surprising
since AOL did not have a significant presence in France at the
time of the CompuServe acquisition.

Researching the owner of the mail server which handled the
mystery man's mail:

America Online (NET-ANS-BNET8)
12100 Sunrise Valley Drive
Reston, VA 20191
US

Netname: AOL-BNET
Netblock: 152.163.0.0 - 152.163.255.255

Coordinator:
America Online, Inc.  (AOL-NOC-ARIN)  domains@AOL.NET
703-265-4670

Domain System inverse mapping provided by:

DNS-01.NS.AOL.COM            152.163.159.232
DNS-02.NS.AOL.COM            205.188.157.232

Record last updated on 02-Dec-1999.
Database last updated on 26-May-2000 06:10:59 EDT.

This indicates that the email to this list originated in the US
since the mail server IP address (152.163.225.3) is within the
above netblock.

 >This guy may be a fraud and he may be for real. But Stan has an
 >easy answer. Just have the guy fax Stan on a company letterhead.
 >In the meantime, the speculation is a waste of time. It looks
 >like paranoia.

Not paranoia, just curiosity.

Regards,

Terry









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   May > May 26

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:47:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:53:51 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >Subject: The COMETA Report
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:47:26 -0300
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>3. For those who would like a copy of the 90 page English
 >>Translation of the COMETA Report, I am making copies available,
 >>as noted on Coast to Coast a few weeks ago, for only $10.

 >>Stan Friedman

 >Stan Friedman did not aquire any authorization from us. I point
 >out that COMETA Report is protected (page 4) by the Copyright
 >and that all reproduction, in whole or in part, translation and
 >adaptation rights are reserved for all countries.


Friedman's response:

"I would like an apology for your suggesting I was
counterfeiting or plagiarizing. I would also like to know just
when you plan to publish the translation so I can inform people
as to how they will eventually be able to obtain your "official"
version. Then I could say "no more sales by me" in good faith.

For all I know you are some noisy negativist posing as Michel
Algrin to keep people from obtaining the information in the
COMETA Report."

The real issue is not Michel Algrin, real or not, but the posted
copyright on the report itself. It seems to me that the easiest
thing that Stanton Friedman could do in good faith is to contact
COMETA directly, point to the copyright notice on page 4, which
Michel Algrin (whether he is the real Algrin, or not) referenced
in the first message, and ask for their permission to sell this
translation, or negotiate a right to distribute their
forthcoming translation. Stanton Friedman did not contest Michel
Algrin's contention that the copyright notice is as described
and on page four of the COMETA report. Neither has he indicated
any willingness to seek out their permission, or that he has
attempted to seek them out originally for their permission.

My suggestion to Stanton Friedman is to take the initiative and
contact COMETA directly, tell them what he is doing and what he
wishes to continue doing and negotiate an arrangement for the
rights to sell this translation and COMETA's translation when
available. With his marketing identity and continuous exposure,
an arrangement of mutual interest and satisfaction should be
easily negotiated between Friedman and COMETA. Since Friedman
has admitted not producing this translation:


"I do not have my name on the translation nor my address. I
did not change a word. I do not claim the report as my work."


He has nothing vested into this report and the $10.00 he is
charging is strictly for postage/handling which means that there
is a profitmargin built into his $10.00 fee for making this
report available to the masses desiring it.

Will the real Stanton Friedman please stand up?

Ed Stewart

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Stewart ufoindex@jps.net|So Man, who here seems principal alone,
There Is Something         |Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown.
    Going On!       ,>'?'<, |Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal,
Salvador Freixedo  ( O O ) |'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.
----------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -----








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   May > May 26

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Jean-Luc Rivera <JLRIV1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 11:39:24 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:06:00 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 22:25:55 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:08:24 -0300
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:58:37 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: The COMETA Report

 >>>From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >>>To: fsphys@brunnet.net <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 11:16 AM
 >>>Subject: Re: COMETA Report

 >>Mr. Algrin:

 >>One problem with Email is that one does not always know who the
 >>sender is... that is why I gave you my fax and phone numbers. I
 >>notice you haven't returned the favor.

 >>There is indeed a Michel Algrin listed in the Translation of the
 >>COMETA report as an attorney-at-law. I have no way of knowing
 >>who you are, however, especially since you have used the terms
 >>"plagiarize" and "counterfeit".

 ><snip>

 >>For all I know you are some noisy negativist posing as Michel
 >>Algrin to keep people from obtaining the information in the
 >>COMETA Report.

 >Stan's suspicions may be well-founded. How many French attorneys
 >have AOL accounts? I wasn't aware that _America_ Online had gone
 >international.


Dear David,

For your information, AOL is in a lot of different countries
which is one of its strenghts.. And yes, even french attorneys
do have computers and go on the web.

French people are on the web, even do speak english and are list
members -with AOL accounts -, like myself and Gildas
Bourdais:-))))

 >Since I am an AOL member and have access to member lists and
 >member profiles, I did a simple search. Among AOL's 20 million
 >or so members, there are none listed who go by the name of
 >Algrin, Michel or otherwise. And there is no member profile for
 >an AlgrinM.

 >This could very well be some "noisy negativist" logging on under
 >another name. AOL allows up to 5 separate e-mail accounts and
 >screen names per member account.

Personnally knowing Michel Algrin and having spoken on the phone
with him about this, I can assure you he is the genuine Michel
Algrin.

And I am the genuine Jean-Luc Rivera. :-)











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   May > May 26

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:08:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:09:35 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


A quick search on the internet produced some locations with
summary reports of the French COMETA report. Michel Algrin, as
the point of contact for permissions, was cited at the beginning
of the following summaries by Gildas Bourdais:

from http://www.netowne.com/ufos/important/cometa.htm


"The French Report on UFOs and Defence: a short presentation
     by Gildas Bourdais

It must be stressed here that this is an independant report,
written by a private association called COMETA. It is summarized
here with the approval of the authors.

To translate and publish the report itself, in part or in its
integrality, permission should be asked by writing to the
administrator of the association COMETA, Mr Michel Algrin, 25,
boulevard Saint-Germain, 75005 Paris, France."


from http://www.cninews.com/CNI_French.html


"The following exclusive report first appeared as part 1 of the
August 1, 1999 edition of CNI News. We regard it as one of the
most significant stories ever carried in CNI News. Thanks to our
French colleague and correspondent Gildas Bourdais
(GBourdais@aol.com) for providing this report on the historic
new UFO assessment from France. The following text has been
approved for publication by members of COMETA, the "Committee
for In-depth Studies" which produced the UFO report. Requests
for translation and publication rights to the full report should
be addressed to Mr. Michel Algrin, 25 boulevard saint-Germain,
75005 Paris, France."


Apparently, the real Michel Algrin's address is directly
available on the internet. Also, anyone wishing to be extra
cautious can contact the French weekly VSD who published the
COMETA report in its entirety July 16, 1999, "Les Ovni Et La
Defense: A quoi doit-on se prparer?" and get the above refenced
addresses.

The following CUFOS site also has Gildas Bourdais' summary, but
the references above were not included on their internet page:

http://www.cufos.org/cometa.html

A separate summary report by Perry Petrakis from SOS OVNI is
available at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/news/cometa.html

Perry Petrakis/SOS OVNI's viewpoint of the COMETA report is
contrary to COMETA's viewpoint and should be read by all for its
distinct insights.

Ed Stewart
----------

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Stewart ufoindex@jps.net|So Man, who here seems principal alone,
There Is Something         |Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown.
    Going On!       ,>'?'<, |Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal,
Salvador Freixedo  ( O O ) |'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.
---------- -----ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -----








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   May > May 26

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:40:14 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:12:10 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 19:20:53 -0400
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>The shadows are cast in two dimensions, not one.  Sure, you can
 >>get a 15 degree sun elevation in the morning on any day of the
 >>year, but can you _simultaneously_ get the sun's azimuth and
 >>elevation right to cast the shadows as shown May 11 in the Trent
 >>photos? The answer is no.

 >Here's a table of the sun's azimuth and elevation in the morning
 >on May 11 at Trent's position:>

 >>Time               Azimuth    Elevation
 >>6:30 a.m.           70.7           6.0
 >>7:00                75.7          11.1
 >>7:15                78.3          13.7
 >>7:30                80.8          16.3
 >>8:00                85.8          21.5
 >>8:30                91.1          26.8>

 >Are these for daylight saving time?

 >DST didn't begin until Mother's Day, if I recall correctly.

Yes, this is for DST.

According to the newspapers, DST began April 30.  Mother's Day
sounds about right. Each town had to vote whether to go on DST.
E.g. Salem and Forest Grove voted April 10 to do so. I don't
know if the McMinnville city council also so voted, but it would
be foolish not to adopt the same time standard as the bigger
burgs around you. So I assume yes.

David Rudiak








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   May > May 26

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Virgil Priscu <docv@netvision.net.il>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:41:00 +0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:15:38 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:24:22 -0500 (CDT)
 >From: Craig Beasley <craig_beasley@usa.net>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Hello List,

 >This COMETA report seems to be a pretty major event, and it's
 >grabbed a lot of attention. While so many people are focusing on
 >this, are there any other items/events getting under our radar,
 >so to speak?

 >An idle thought...

 >Craig


Hello All,

I read the Cometa Report (called: "Les OVNI et la Defence: A qoi
doit-ons se preparer?" The UFOs And The Defence: To What Must
We Prepare".

As it happend I was in France in August last year and I bought
it from the newsstand in the train station in Paris .

Very good material . Worth reading.

Virgil








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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Virgil Priscu <docv@netvision.net.il>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:52:57 +0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:18:14 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


Hello,

BTW - the Cometa report was completely ignored by the public in
France. I bought it from a news stand. On display and completely
ignored.

I think I was one of the fewcustomers buying it.

Virgil








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                                     Re:

From: Gilles Milot <milotg@Magnola.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:24:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:35:50 -0400
Subject: Re:


Quebec Association Of Ufology

Errol and list members,

Starting now AQU-QAU will post to this list any valuable
sighting reports that we will received for the benefit of all.

1-WITNESS

Name: Alfred B.
Age: 50
Address: Chateauguay, Quebec
Tlphone: In file
Profession: Storeman
Education Level: College
Was the witness alone or with others?: Alone


2-SIGHTING

Place of sighting:
Chateauguay, Quebec (Approx 30 km SW from Montreal)
Date of sighting:
May 24, 2000 - Heure/Time: 19:30h
Duration of sighting:  8-10 seconds
The sky was:  Partially cloudly
Ambient temperature: 20 C
Was the moon visible?: Day light

Number of objects: 1

Sighting made through something:  NO
Location of the witness: Outside

3- DESCRIPTION OF THE OBJECT(S)


General form and colors of the object: Black Triangle (Delta wing)
Did the object change its form?: No
If yes, explain:
Object diameter compared to an object held at arm's length: � nch

Approximate distance from the object: 2 miles

Approximate altitude of the object: Between 15000 and 18000 ft
Approximate speed of the object: The UFO travelled a distance
horizontally of 6 nches at arm's length in 5-6 seconds and 6
inches vertically in aproximatively three seconds

Did the object emit any sound? If yes, explain: No
Did the object have any effect on a motorized vehicle?: No
Did the object have any effect on other objects?: No

4-OCCUPANT/OCCUPANT


Did the witness observe one or more beings? N/A
Description de(s) tre(s)/Description of the being(s): N/A

5-ATTERRISSAGE/LANDING

Did the object land or was it already on the ground?: N/A
Description of the landing site: N/A
Did the object leave any traces on the ground?: N/A

Signature:    Alfred B.
Date: May 25, 2000

(Signature with the original report)


CASE SUMMARY


2000-002

May 24, 2000

Our witness works for a major Canadian airline and he told us
that he's used to seeing aircraft of all kinds.

On May 24,2000 Montreal and the surrounding cities experienced a
severe thunderstorm of a rare intensity and right after this
storm, the witness went outside and saw in the north-west, an
aircraft of an unusual shape.

Realizing that this object was not like anything he knows in his
field, he paid close attention to the form of the UFO and came
to the conclusion that this did not resemble any conventional
aircraft.

At this moment, according to the witness, after few seconds of
horizontal flying, the UFO rotated the front nose up and went up
the sky at tremendous speed to disappear out of sight in three
seconds.

Dorval airport will be contacted to confirm if the radar also
caught the sighting. However the co-operation of the airport
authorities is very poor, if not non-existant.









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   May > May 26

                     QU-QAU Sighting Report May 24, 2000

From: Gilles Milot <milotg@Magnola.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:24:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:36:50 -0400
Subject: QU-QAU Sighting Report May 24, 2000


Quebec Association Of Ufology

Errol and list members,

Starting now AQU-QAU will post to this list any valuable
sighting reports that we will received for the benefit of all.

1-WITNESS

Name: Alfred B.
Age: 50
Address: Chateauguay, Quebec
Tlphone: In file
Profession: Storeman
Education Level: College
Was the witness alone or with others?: Alone


2-SIGHTING

Place of sighting:
Chateauguay, Quebec (Approx 30 km SW from Montreal)
Date of sighting:
May 24, 2000 - Heure/Time: 19:30h
Duration of sighting:  8-10 seconds
The sky was:  Partially cloudly
Ambient temperature: 20 C
Was the moon visible?: Day light

Number of objects: 1

Sighting made through something:  NO
Location of the witness: Outside

3- DESCRIPTION OF THE OBJECT(S)


General form and colors of the object: Black Triangle (Delta wing)
Did the object change its form?: No
If yes, explain:
Object diameter compared to an object held at arm's length: � nch

Approximate distance from the object: 2 miles

Approximate altitude of the object: Between 15000 and 18000 ft
Approximate speed of the object: The UFO travelled a distance
horizontally of 6 nches at arm's length in 5-6 seconds and 6
inches vertically in aproximatively three seconds

Did the object emit any sound? If yes, explain: No
Did the object have any effect on a motorized vehicle?: No
Did the object have any effect on other objects?: No

4-OCCUPANT/OCCUPANT


Did the witness observe one or more beings? N/A
Description de(s) tre(s)/Description of the being(s): N/A

5-ATTERRISSAGE/LANDING

Did the object land or was it already on the ground?: N/A
Description of the landing site: N/A
Did the object leave any traces on the ground?: N/A

Signature:    Alfred B.
Date: May 25, 2000

(Signature with the original report)


CASE SUMMARY


2000-002

May 24, 2000

Our witness works for a major Canadian airline and he told us
that he's used to seeing aircraft of all kinds.

On May 24,2000 Montreal and the surrounding cities experienced a
severe thunderstorm of a rare intensity and right after this
storm, the witness went outside and saw in the north-west, an
aircraft of an unusual shape.

Realizing that this object was not like anything he knows in his
field, he paid close attention to the form of the UFO and came
to the conclusion that this did not resemble any conventional
aircraft.

At this moment, according to the witness, after few seconds of
horizontal flying, the UFO rotated the front nose up and went up
the sky at tremendous speed to disappear out of sight in three
seconds.

Dorval airport will be contacted to confirm if the radar also
caught the sighting. However the co-operation of the airport
authorities is very poor, if not non-existant.






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   May > May 26

                     QU-QAU Sighting Report May 24, 2000

From: Gilles Milot <milotg@Magnola.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:24:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:37:20 -0400
Subject: QU-QAU Sighting Report May 24, 2000


Quebec Association Of Ufology

Errol and list members,

Starting now AQU-QAU will post to this list any valuable
sighting reports that we will received for the benefit of all.

1-WITNESS

Name: Alfred B.
Age: 50
Address: Chateauguay, Quebec
Tlphone: In file
Profession: Storeman
Education Level: College
Was the witness alone or with others?: Alone


2-SIGHTING

Place of sighting:
Chateauguay, Quebec (Approx 30 km SW from Montreal)
Date of sighting:
May 24, 2000 - Heure/Time: 19:30h
Duration of sighting:  8-10 seconds
The sky was:  Partially cloudly
Ambient temperature: 20 C
Was the moon visible?: Day light

Number of objects: 1

Sighting made through something:  NO
Location of the witness: Outside

3- DESCRIPTION OF THE OBJECT(S)


General form and colors of the object: Black Triangle (Delta wing)
Did the object change its form?: No
If yes, explain:
Object diameter compared to an object held at arm's length: � nch

Approximate distance from the object: 2 miles

Approximate altitude of the object: Between 15000 and 18000 ft
Approximate speed of the object: The UFO travelled a distance
horizontally of 6 nches at arm's length in 5-6 seconds and 6
inches vertically in aproximatively three seconds

Did the object emit any sound? If yes, explain: No
Did the object have any effect on a motorized vehicle?: No
Did the object have any effect on other objects?: No

4-OCCUPANT/OCCUPANT


Did the witness observe one or more beings? N/A
Description de(s) tre(s)/Description of the being(s): N/A

5-ATTERRISSAGE/LANDING

Did the object land or was it already on the ground?: N/A
Description of the landing site: N/A
Did the object leave any traces on the ground?: N/A

Signature:    Alfred B.
Date: May 25, 2000

(Signature with the original report)


CASE SUMMARY


2000-002

May 24, 2000

Our witness works for a major Canadian airline and he told us
that he's used to seeing aircraft of all kinds.

On May 24,2000 Montreal and the surrounding cities experienced a
severe thunderstorm of a rare intensity and right after this
storm, the witness went outside and saw in the north-west, an
aircraft of an unusual shape.

Realizing that this object was not like anything he knows in his
field, he paid close attention to the form of the UFO and came
to the conclusion that this did not resemble any conventional
aircraft.

At this moment, according to the witness, after few seconds of
horizontal flying, the UFO rotated the front nose up and went up
the sky at tremendous speed to disappear out of sight in three
seconds.

Dorval airport will be contacted to confirm if the radar also
caught the sighting. However the co-operation of the airport
authorities is very poor, if not non-existant.







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 26

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:02:46 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:40:50 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:47:49 -0700
 >From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:47:26 -0300
 >>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>3. For those who would like a copy of the 90 page English
 >>>Translation of the COMETA Report, I am making copies available,
 >>>as noted on Coast to Coast a few weeks ago, for only $10.

 >>>Stan Friedman

 >>Stan Friedman did not aquire any authorization from us. I point
 >>out that COMETA Report is protected (page 4) by the Copyright
 >>and that all reproduction, in whole or in part, translation and
 >>adaptation rights are reserved for all countries.

 >Friedman's response:

 >"I would like an apology for your suggesting I was
 >counterfeiting or plagiarizing. I would also like to know just
 >when you plan to publish the translation so I can inform people
 >as to how they will eventually be able to obtain your "official"
 >version. Then I could say "no more sales by me" in good faith.

 >For all I know you are some noisy negativist posing as Michel
 >Algrin to keep people from obtaining the information in the
 >COMETA Report."

 >The real issue is not Michel Algrin, real or not, but the posted
 >copyright on the report itself. It seems to me that the easiest
 >thing that Stanton Friedman could do in good faith is to contact
 >COMETA directly, point to the copyright notice on page 4, which
 >Michel Algrin (whether he is the real Algrin, or not) referenced
 >in the first message, and ask for their permission to sell this
 >translation, or negotiate a right to distribute their
 >forthcoming translation. Stanton Friedman did not contest Michel
 >Algrin's contention that the copyright notice is as described
 >and on page four of the COMETA report. Neither has he indicated
 >any willingness to seek out their permission, or that he has
 >attempted to seek them out originally for their permission.

 >My suggestion to Stanton Friedman is to take the initiative and
 >contact COMETA directly, tell them what he is doing and what he
 >wishes to continue doing and negotiate an arrangement for the
 >rights to sell this translation and COMETA's translation when
 >available. With his marketing identity and continuous exposure,
 >an arrangement of mutual interest and satisfaction should be
 >easily negotiated between Friedman and COMETA. Since Friedman
 >has admitted not producing this translation:


 >"I do not have my name on the translation nor my address. I
 >did not change a word. I do not claim the report as my work."


 >He has nothing vested into this report and the $10.00 he is
 >charging is strictly for postage/handling which means that there
 >is a profitmargin built into his $10.00 fee for making this
 >report available to the masses desiring it.

 >Will the real Stanton Friedman please stand up?



As might be expected, without giving any indication, Ed  has
shown only 1/4 of my second message to Algrin and none of my
first. I specifically asked about purchase of their publication
and offered to pay royalties, and provided phone and fax numbers
and asked of we could talk. I also asked for a letterhead. There
is no address given for COMETA in the volume. No letter head has
been provided. Algrin (if real) doesn't want sales or royalties.

Ed, do you think you might just possibly get facts in hand
before putting computer in gear? Or is that too much to ask? One
might think you would have learned something from the ridiculous
charges you made about me and the documents in RG 341. Willing
to tell us yet who your source of the totally false information
was??

As it happens this translation was arranged for by FUFOR while
in contact with COMETA and was paid for by Lawrence Rockefeller
not by COMETA. My latest attempt to pin down publication date
(last night) indicated that no arrangements have been made yet
for US Publication by COMETA.

Ed, I suggest that you sit down. I have stood up and tried to
provide a service to the UFO community. Originally copies were
made so that I could distribute a number of them free to people
like Jeff Rense, Edgar Mitchell, the local CP reporter, etc.

Stan Friedman









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 26

                        Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:41:55 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:45:39 -0400
Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice


 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >Source: Cosmiverse - The Online Portal For Space
 >                      and Science Enthusiasts

 >http://www.cosmiverse.com/paranormal.html

 >CAUS Files Appeal Notice

 >May 24, 2000 08:32 CDT

 >Arizona-based Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) filed its
 >notice Tuesday that it will appeal a U.S. Circuit Court decision
 >to dismiss its lawsuit against the Department of Defense.

<snip>

 >Following the dismissal of the lawsuit Mar. 30, CAUS immediately
 >launched an Internet campaign to raise $10,000 to appeal the
 >decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals.

<snip>

 >That said, Gersten said he's taking his first leave of absence
 >from CAUS, and going on vacation until June 10, visiting friends
 >and associates in New York.

A guy heading a _non-profit_ organization saying he won't be
doing anything for free and then taking a vacation after a fund
raiser. Am I the only one seeing this?

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpose: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open
Mind...and remember; what's real isn't important unless you're
vacationing on someone else's money.
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3 (eXpose)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)








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   May > May 26

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:42:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 19:55:00 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


List,

Last year, Patrick Huyghe and I tried to arrange the translation
and publication in English of the COMETA Report.

Let's be diplomatic and just say that the French were difficult
to deal with. What we thought of as a public service project,
they seemed to regard more as a commercial one. In short, many
conditions on distribution were imposed, so that it was clear
that copyright was a major concern. Eventually, we withdrew our
proposal (which was to publish both an English print and Web
version of the Report). Or it might be more accurate to say that
we simply ceased pursuing the project.

In any event, as long as some of us are touting $10.00 books to
which we may, or may not, hold the operative copyright, may
Patrick and I direct your attention to the following:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380802651/qid=959370159/
sr=1-1/102-8 871222-9999201

And apropos, or not, of anyone and anything, I was listening to
a National Public Radio program today in which the author of
"Flags of Our Fathers" was interviewed. I believe his name was
James Bradley; at any event, the author's father was one of the
six soldiers who raised the American flag over Iwo Jima.

I assume we've all seen the picture, since it's the most widely
reproduced one in the history of photography.

During a discussion of myths surrounding the picture, Bradley
related how he had just recently attended a dinner for which
300-350 people paid to attend in honor of the local hometown
"hero", long reknowned as the man who had walked the flag up to
the top of Mount Suribachi (sp?).

The only problem, Bradley discovered, was that the man was on a
boat three miles offshore at the time the flag was hoisted.

(Similar discoveries have recently surfaced in the records of
soldiers who claimed to have participated in a massacre of
civilians during the early days of the Korean war -- indicating
that a claim to bad fame, phenomenologically speaking, is
apparently just as seductive as a claim to good fame. Or does
anyone remember Henry Lee Lucas, if I have the name right? James
"Deliverance" Dickey also inflated his own service record,
admirable as it was. In the latter case, Dickey's son and
autobiographer referred to it as the "pilot syndrome" -- who
wanted to be a lowly center or guard [or tail-gunner] in the
retelling, when you could portray yourself as the school
quarterback/pilot, as long, of course, as the latter wasn't
around to naysay you?)

Any analogy with anything ufological, BTW, is wholly in the eye
of the beholder -- or purely coincidental. (Just in case the
name Philip Corso fleetingly surfaces in anyone's consciousness,
or, God forbid, that of Jesse Marcel, Frank Kaufmann, or Glenn
Dennis.)

But it's also interesting that Bradley Sr., who was there,
refused interviews and never spoke of his experiences, even to
his own immediate family, 'til the day he died.

To each his own, apparently. Which is why it is almost
impossible to ascribe motives to hoaxers, who are first and
foremost individuals, or at least the usual assumptions of
motive, ie., personal profit, etc.

The crop circle scene should have shown us that, if nothing else
did, or has yet managed to. In other words, those who have
profited most therefrom have not been the original hoaxers, but
the hoaxed.

Well, the world is full of irony, isn't it?

In other words, hoaxers apparently get 'paid' in their own
private, highly subjective currency, not necessarily the
accepted coin of the predominant realm, that is, you and me.

We no more know why a real hero would spend his life denying
same, than we know why a false hero would claim same.

Pardon the syntax.

Dennis Stacy










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   May > May 27

                              Aliens Ate My MBA

From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 11:10:59 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:08:42 -0400
Subject: Aliens Ate My MBA



EBK & Researchers,

This article appeared in the UK "Guardian" on Tuesday May 9,
2000. It was by John Crace, and titled "Aliens Ate My MBA".
Although Sci-Fi may not be appropriate to this forum, I think
the article has some important information into the changing
face of our culture & academia.

I have also place the profiles of the two main organisers of the
conference for the list, that's if you want to get a copy of the
papers.

It's a revealing insight.

                             ***

THE ARTICLE:

"Brown is the new black, grey is the new brown and science
fiction is the new media studies. Well, not quite. Universities
may be desperate to get bums on seats, but no one has yet
stooped to making Star Wars a degree subject. But all is not
lost for those with an unhealthy interest in flying saucers, as
there is a growing band of academics who are using
science-fiction as a semi-serious paradigm for re-examining
traditional subjects from a different angle.

The fun started lasted year [1999] when Warren Smith and Matthew
Higgins of Leicester University and Martin Parker and Geoff
Lightfoot of Keele University published a joint paper in the
journal, Organization, entitled Amazing Tales: Organization
Studies as Science Fiction. None of them expected much feedback,
but out of the woodwork came a host of other sci-fi academics,
keen to link their parallel lives and universes into the
mainstream of their working lives.

So last September the worlds of secretaries and X-Filing clerks,
management and chaos theories, enterprise and the Starship
Enterprise merged at a conference organised by Leicester
University's management centre. More than 50 international
delegates from disciplines including astronomy, physics,
history, literature, cultural, film and media studies and
management knuckled down to the nitty-gritty of utopias,
corporate powers and cyberpunk. And that's not the end of it, as
the best of the papers are being published by Routledge in book
format sometime next year.

For someone who spends so much of his time with his head in the
asteroids, Smith, a lecturer in organisational studies, is
resolutely downbeat about the place of sci-fi in academia. He
and his co-authors make no great claims for sci-fi as a means of
improving organisation studies, but rather see it as another
window through which the subject may be viewed. "Organisation
science is just as fictional as science fiction, voodoo or
Chinese medicine," they say. "Or just as true, which amounts to
saying the same thing. It is not so much a question of
legislating that 'anything goes' but recognising it, and then
allowing that recognition to license the exploration of some
rather empty spaces."

This may sound a wilfully Dadaist approach, but even die-hard
sceptics have to concede that sci-fi has offered illuminating
insights into the way we view the world. Plato got the ball
rolling with his Republic, and the genre was continued by Thomas
More with Utopia, Samuel Butler with Erewhon and William Morris
with News from Nowhere. The tradition may owe its existence in
part to a desire to escape the confines of political censorship,
but today's management gurus, such as Alvin Toffler and Charles
Handy, have known no such constraints as they dabble in their
generally well-received crystal-ball gazing.

The 20th century was perhaps more noted for its dystopias than
its utopias, with George Orwell's 1984, and Aldous Huxley's
Brave New World well to the fore - and the theme has been picked
up by contemporary sci-fi writers, such as William Gibson, and
film-makers. "Within academia there's a slight tendency to
regard literature as the upmarket end of sci-fi, and to see film
as decidedly lowbrow mainstream, because books allow themes to
become more fully developed," says Smith. "But even the
blockbusters tell us something. Take Star Wars - The Phantom
Menace. The Federation clearly resembles the Japanese,
suggesting a stereotypically uniform management system."

Hollywood's contribution to the debate is worth a PhD or two
with films like Bladerunner, Alien, Robocop, Brazil and Total
Recall. But TV, too, with Dr Who and Star Trek, has also helped
define human relationships with new technologies and ideas. But
sci-fi doesn't just have a reflective role, it is also
predictive. Science is sometimes as much about creative leaps of
the imagination as tough deductive reasoning, and science
fantasists have had their fair share of successes.

Arthur C. Clarke predicted the geostationary satellite and Isaac
Asimov developed the three laws of robotics that are frequently
cited as fact within cybernetics. However, as Smith, Higgins,
Parker and Lightfoot point out, Asimov would be horrified as he
spent his last 40 years exposing the contradictions and dangers
inherent in even such apparently universal and applicable laws.

On a lighter note, they also observe that management change
consultants have plundered sci-fi as a resource for thinking
about alternative scenarios for strategic planning, and that
Wess Roberts has used the "secrets" of Captain Picard from Star
Trek: The Next Generation to sell his particular brand of
charismatic leadership.

But as any sci-fi fan knows, every utopia has its obverse, and
sci-fi has also come perilously close to doing for us all. "It
has been suggested that the 1940s film, Murder In the Air, was
the basis for the proposed US Star Wars defence programme in the
1980s," says Smith.

"Ronald Reagan would have known the film well and might have
given his backing for the lasers in space programme on this
basis."

                             ***

Warren Smith:

Warren Smith has degrees from the Unversity of Warwick,
University of Lancaster and a PhD. from Keele University. He is
currently a lecturer in Organzational Studies at the University
of Leicester. Current research interests include ethics and
marketing, the 'virtual' and concepts of organisation and
community, science fiction and organisation and violence and
spectacle.

Matthew Higgins:

Matthew Higgins BA (Hons.) MA. graduated in Sociology from
Staffordshire Polytechnic and Marketing from the University of
the West of England. Matthew is currently a Research Associate
in the Management Centre at the Department of Economics,
University of Leicester. He is also studying for his Ph.D. at
Keele University which is examining cause-related marketing and
the ethics. His research interests include representations and
marketing, popular culture, ethics, and social marketing in the
voluntary sector. Matthew is also involved in a collaborative
research project on branding and community with a mutual
financial service organisation

Matthew Higgins
Management Centre
University of Leicester
Leicester LE1 7RH
Tel: 0116 2525644
Email: mh64@le.ac.uk



Regards

John W. Auchettl - Director PRA Research

Dr Ron Barnett   - Deputy Director

WEB:
http://www.praufo.web.com
* Still in development


THANKS TO:
� John Crace 2000
http://www.guardian.co.uk/

FULL STORY AT:
Tuesday May 9, 2000. by John Crace, and
titled "Aliens Ate My MBA"
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4015987,00.html

BIOs:
http://www.pinkmachine.com/scifi/biog.htm

OLD CONFERENCE DATA:
Science Fiction & Organization Conference
from the 14th-15th September 1999.
http://www.pinkmachine.com/scifi/home.htm


Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2000 - 39 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE









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   May > May 27

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 18:28:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:15:00 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:02:46 -0300
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:47:49 -0700
 >>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
 >>Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:47:26 -0300
 >>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >As might be expected, without giving any indication, Ed  has
 >shown only 1/4 of my second message to Algrin and none of my
 >first.

Friedman, you are full of it. There are only two messages from
you up to this point posted to UFO UpDates:

Your original message offering for sale a translation of a
copyrighted COMETA report which expressely prohibits anyone from
selling such a translation without prior approval. No where in
the message do you address Algrin in any way whatsoever.

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m24-016.shtml

The second message of yours where you responded online to Algrin
and which I quoted from:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m25-008.shtml

In this message, you refused to revoke the standing offer placed
on the first message and proceeded to question whether or not
Algrin was the real Algrin. As if somehow that was relevant. The
fact is you got caught red-handed trying to peddle a copyrighted
item without ever bothering to get permission before you put on
your marketing hat on. Since Algrin's original message to this
list, you have not shown any good faith in either wanting to
revoke your apparent illegal offer, or contacting COMETA
independently of Algrin and directly. Instead, you have gone
into your logical fallacy mode and have switched this discussion
from the copyright abuse issue which stands on its own inspite
of whether or not the real Algrin ever brought it up in the
first place and attacked the messenger instead.

 >I specifically asked about purchase of their publication and
 >offered to pay royalties, and provided phone and fax numbers
 >and asked of we could talk.

Not in the two messages posted above. The first message you
offered to sell for $10.00 something that is copyrighted
protected and which you ignored. The second message you tried to
build a straw man around Algrin himself and avoided any mention
that you, Stanton Friedman, have been caught red-handed
attempting to peddle an item that is copyright protected without
ever securing permission in the first place.

 >Ed, do you think you might just possibly get facts in hand
 >before putting computer in gear? Or is that too much to ask?

Which part does Algrin have wrong? Have you previously applied
to COMETA for permission to sell their product?  Where have you
rescinded your offer to provide translations of the original,
also copyright protected, on this list that you announced your
offer?

 >As it happens this translation was arranged for by FUFOR while
 >in contact with COMETA and was paid for by Lawrence Rockefeller
 >not by COMETA.

What gives you the right to sell it? Answer the above questions.

 >My latest attempt to pin down publication date
 >(last night) indicated that no arrangements have been made yet
 >for US Publication by COMETA.

What gives you the right to sell it? Answer the above questions.

 >Ed, I suggest that you sit down. I have stood up and tried to
 >provide a service to the UFO community.

At $10.00 a pop for something you had no involvement in
creating. Please, spare the horsemanure it costs you that much
to copy ninety pages and postage. It is not even relevant.

 >Originally copies were
 >made so that I could distribute a number of them free to people
 >like Jeff Rense, Edgar Mitchell, the local CP reporter, etc.

Then what happened? Tells us why you decided to capitalize on
this opportunity and sell this report for $10.00 a pop? A report
originally created and copyrighted by COMETA including any
translations attempted from the original, a report you had no
input into, a translation you had no input into. Tells us how
much of that $10.00 is going to COMETA for creating the
original, or how much is going to FUFOR for arranging the
translation you are peddling? It doesn't appear FUFOR charged
you anything for arranging the translation themselves? In
another message Steve Kaeser stated that FUFOR is giving the
translation away to journalists. Did they know ahead of time
that Stanton Friedman was going to be selling the translation to
anyone wanting one for $10.00 a pop?

What bothers me is that Stanton Friedman had the opportunity to
do the right thing twice, and twice he has instead decided to do
the wrong thing and now appears to feel justified in attacking
messangers instead. You had the opportunity to contact COMETA
first before you decided to sell their report for $10.00 a pop.
You did not.

You had the opportunity to contact COMETA independently and
directly after Algrin notified you that you were in violation of
COMETA's copyright. You did not, and instead decided to posture
online building a strawman argument as to whether or not Algrin
was legitimate, as if he wasn't legitimate, then it was alright
for Stanton Friedman to continue violating COMETA's copyright.
Unadulturated garbage, but standard Friedman.

It is apparent that the real Stanton Friedman has stood up. He
should be easily recognizable by anyone on this list that has
followed this thread.

Ed Stewart --
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Stewart ufoindex@jps.net|So Man, who here seems principal alone,
There Is Something         |Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown.
    Going On!       ,>'?'<, |Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal,
Salvador Freixedo  ( O O ) |'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.
----------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -----









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   May > May 27

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:23:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:21:06 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


   Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:20:27 -0400 (EDT)
 >Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:08:45 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 00:10:08 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 08:03:39 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


Previously, I wrote:

 >>Let's see....

 >>We can measure the shadows on the garage, the ground, the house,
 >>the power lines, the trees, the poles, the roof, the pigs and
 >>the cows and the hired help. And with all due respect to Bob's
 >>efforts, none of this amounts to squat.

David responded:

 >Squat?? The shadows tell us if the photos are consistent with
 >the Trents' story. Debunkers and skeptics and cynics like
 >yourself have falsely claimed that they are inconsistent and the
 >Trent's (for incomprehensible reasons) lied about the time of
 >day when the photos were taken, therefore lied about everything
 >else.


David,

I see that you've resorted to fabrication.

Please indicate in which post I _ever_ claimed that the photos
were inconsistent with the time of day they were supposedly
taken. Also, please indicate where I _ever_ said the photos were
inconsistent with the Trent's story. In fact, please indicate
where I _ever_ said the Trents lied to Bruce. And finally,
indicate in which post that I EVER said the photos were fake!

You can't because I _never_ said those things. Others might
have, but I never did. In fact, I never even implied it. You are
so dead set on proving the Trents right and, more importantly,
me wrong that you didn't even stop to check your facts. But
then, the devil is in the details, right David?  ;)

Now, while you are desperately digging for some kind of quote to
nail me with, why don't you count the number of times that I
said that I'd prefer to believe that the photos are real. Also,
while you are at it, why don't you count the number of times
that I said there isn't enough proof, one way or the other, to
say whether the photos are real or not!

All I have ever maintained is that what you and Bruce consider
evidence of the Trents' honesty is nothing of the sort. That
doesn't mean that they lied. It means that neither you, not
anyone else, can possible know WHAT they really think. That is
how this discussion got started.

Regard the "technical analysis" that you feel is essential to
supporting the Trents' story, I wrote:

 >>The object of interest
 >>is _still_ a fuzzy, black and white "thing" floating in the
 >>middle of a blank sky with no reference points what so ever. It
 >>doesn't go behind anything and is too small and grainy to
 >>ascertain its identity or origin other than it looks
 >>suspiciously like a milk can lid. In essence, you've got
 >>information on everything in the bloody picture _except_ the
 >>damned UFO!

You replied:

 >Rubbish! As you very well know, relative luminance values can be
 >used to determine whether the object was more likely to be a
 >close object (hence a hoax) or a distant object (real).

You are absolutely right, David. Luminance levels _can_ be used
(_very_ roughly) to determine the distance of an object.

But not in this case.

Why? Because we don't know what the reflective values of the
"mystery object" are beforehand. Now why is this important?
Because without having the values of the object as a baseline
for comparison, then we don't know what the changes in luminance
indicate. It is just that simple and you know this to be true
(or should). If you want to _assume_ that the object has a
particular value to start with, that's okay. But then you are
obviously just guessing and the results would be no more
conclusive than just looking at the photo and saying, "Gee, it
kind of looks real." Which is what I did because that's really
all ANYONE can do. There just isn't any enough info in the
photos to consider unless you make assumptions, which you
obviously have.

Regarding such, David wrote:

 >Luminance measurements are consistent with a distant object. If
 >it was a hoax, then you have to account for the overly bright
 >shadowed bottom of the object.

No, David, YOU have to account for the overly bright shadowed
bottom of the object. You are the one that says the object is
distant. Is it your position that the bottom would not be as
bright if it were up close? The case could be made either way.
Sure, tones lighten due to atmospheric haze in the distant, but
then again, footcandles also fall off the farther away they get
from the source. In one scenario, it would get darker, in the
other it would get lighter. Is the object shiny or dull? Is it
painted flat or glassy? Is the bottom the same as the rest of
the object? If the bottom were shiny or mirrored, then who knows
what we're seeing in that part of the photo. This may all seem
silly to you, but unless you know what the reflective values of
the "mystery object" are beforehand (and you absolutely do not),
such analysis is nothing short of a guess.

Moving on, I wrote:

 >>Is it the real thing? Personally, I'd like to think so.

Hey David! If you're still at the top of this post, look down
here! I previously said I'd like to think the damned thing is
real! David? David?.....Oh well.

In closing, I offered:

 >>But the
 >>bottom line is that you can ray trace until the cows come home
 >>(and I think they've long since gone to bed) but you won't get
 >>any closer to authenticating the UFO than a casual observer
 >>would by looking at the photos with the naked eye.

Unbelievably, David claims:

 >In other words, you know it must be a hoax, so you don't want to
 >be confused with facts. That's classic debunkerism.

 >You lose again Roger. All you've done is argue by proclamation.
 >To your discerning eye it is nothing but a fake. But you have
 >failed utterly to provide one single argument based on the
 >photos themselves that actually demonstrates that it is a fake,
 >or even that it is likely a fake.


Wow! What can I say, David. Your statement is so
full of inaccuracies.....

Again, I have _never_ said that it is a fake. I _have_
maintained that it _could_ be a fake and that there isn't enough
info to tell one way or the other; _especially_ if that info is
derived by judging the Trents honesty or intent, which cannot be
quantified or measured in any scientific way.

The only proclamations made in this thread are yours suggesting
that the Trents' story can be supported by an analysis that is
_impossible_ to complete due to insufficient data. None the
less, you have repeated the mantra that measuring the luminance
values are a bone fide way to support your case despite the
obvious lack of a base line for comparison. If you want to
believe this, that's okay by me. But don't peg me as a
"debunker" because I see the obvious flaw in your reasoning.
Don't misquote me to prop up a weak defense on your part. And
don't demand that others prove you wrong when you obviously
don't understand the very procedure you depend on for your
position. Your technical analysis is so flawed it is obvious
that you have no idea what you are doing and how little it
proves. In doing so, you do the Trents very little service.

In the end, you can believe the Trents if your gut feeling tells
you to, there's nothing wrong with that. Since I'd like to
believe the shots are real, then my gut says they are telling
the truth, also. But, unlike you, I won't prop up that statement
with false science or presume to know someone else's intent.

I have no problem if the photos turn out to be fake. I have even
fewer problems if they turn out to be real.

How much clearer can I make myself?

Later,

Roger Evans









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   May > May 27

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 03:20:08 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:26:51 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Here's a table of the sun's azimuth and elevation in the morning
 >on May 11 at Trent's position:>

 >Time               Azimuth      Elevation
 >6:30 a.m.           70.7           6.0
 >7:00                75.7          11.1
 >7:15                78.3          13.7
 >7:30                80.8          16.3
 >8:00                85.8          21.5
 >8:30                91.1          26.8

I should amend these values slightly. They are for McMinnville,
not the Trent farm, which was about 11 miles WSW of McMinnville.

The correct values for the Trent farm on May 11,1950, at Lat 45
d 06' N, Long 123 d 20' W are (and carrying further on into the
morning):

Sunrise 5:49 a.m.

Time (PDT)             Azimuth    Elevation
6:30 a.m.               70.5          5.9
6:45                    73.1          8.4
7:00                    75.6         10.9
7:15                    78.1         13.5
7:30                    80.7         16.1
7:45                    83.2         18.7
8:00                    85.8         21.4
8:15                    88.4         24.0
8:30                    91.0         26.7
8:45                    93.7         29.3

Evening values are:

7:00 p.m.               281.3        14.2
7:15                    283.8        11.7
7:30                    286.4         9.1
7:45                    288.9         6.6
8:00                    291.5         4.1
8:15                    294.1         1.8
8:30                    296.7         0.4

Sunset 8:31


I would like to say a few more words about the eave shadows and
the morning sun argument. Skepti-bunker Robert Sheaffer pointed
out that the end rafter seemed to cast a shadow right on the
edge of the garage, indicating the end of the shadow, indicating
that the sun would have had an azimuth of close to 90 degrees. I
would agree up to this point.

Then Sheaffer added that this meant that the photos were taken
at around 7:30 Pacific Standard Time (or 8:30 Pacific Daily
Time). Looking up at the about table, the sun's azimuth is
indeed about 90 degrees at 8:30 PDT. 8:15 might also work.

Unfortunately, notice that the sun's elevation angle is between
24 and 27 degrees from 8:15 to 8:30 PDT, about double what it
should be. If you go back an hour to 7:15 to 7:30, the shadow
elevation angles are probably about right, but the sun's azimuth
is about 10 degrees further north.

There is no time on the morning of May 11 when you can get the
proper combination of sun elevation and azimuth to reproduce the
shadows on the wall. If you get the right height, the shadows
are cast too far south. If the sun  is square to the wall to get
the proper N/S position, the sun is too high and the shadows
cast are much too low.  Sheaffer neglected to mention this. (I
wonder why?)

These are just irrefutable mathematical facts. To this we can
also add two other irrefutable facts that must be true if direct
morning sunlight was responsible for the shadows. The wires from
which Trent supposedly hung is model would be casting shadows
slashing across the oil tank against the garage and across the
upper garage wall. But these shadows aren't there in the photos.
They would be easily detectable, unless the light source was
quite diffuse.

The other missing item in the photos is the expected shadow cast
by the Trent house on the right side of the garage before about
7:30, when the elevation angle of the sun was about right to
account for the garage rafter shadows.

Thus Sheaffer's hypothesis is refuted by astronomy and what is
actually present (or missing) in the photos.

David Rudiak








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                              Re: COMETA Report

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:31:21 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 13:46:46 -0400
Subject: Re: COMETA Report


EBK:
Here is the first item from "Algrin" and my response.
Stan Friedman

-----Original Message-----

 >From: AlgrinM@aol.com <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >To: fsphys@brunnet.net <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 6:19 AM
 >Subject: COMETA Report Friedman

 >Mister the Director of list UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >Dear Sir,
 >I took note with great surprise of the message that Stan
 >Friedman passed on your list (24 May 2000) in which he
 >proposes to sell a translation in English of 90 page
 >COMETA Report: "What should we prepare for?".

 >Stan Friedman did not require any authorization of us.

 >I point out that COMETA Report is protected (page 4) by the
 >Copyright and that all reproduction, in whole or in part,
 >translation and adaptation rights are reserved for all the
 >countries.

 >COMETA is going to publish the translation of his Report
 >in English in the United States.

 >The advertisement of Stan Friedman causes us damage.

 >I will take legal action against him for counterfeit and
 >plagiarism and also against all people who would buy her
 >translation.

 >I ask you to publish this message on your list.

 >Michel Algrin
 >Attorney-At-Law
 >Director of COMETA


From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
To: AlgrinM@aol.com <AlgrinM@aol.com>
Date: Thursday, May 25, 2000 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: COMETA Report Friedman


Mister Algrin:

Can we talk? My phone number is 506-457-0232 in Fredericton, NB
Canada one hour ahead of New York. My fax number is
506-450-3832.. My goal is to spread facts about UFOs. As I
understand it, the translation was done many months ago and has
had no distribution. The Boston Globe article  is splendid
publicity. Do you want a royalty for the small sales I have
done.? Do you have copies available I can purchase and
distribute? I have sold many copies of my own books, papers,
videos, CDROM. It is perhaps unfortunate that none of my work
was referenced in the report, but that hasn't stopped me from
saying good things about it.

Stanton T. Friedman, Nuclear Physicist, lecturer, author.









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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:05:05 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 13:56:00 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 18:28:56 -0700
 >From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 17:02:46 -0300
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 07:47:49 -0700
 >>>From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>>From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >>>>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>>>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:47:26 -0300
 >>>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>>>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>As might be expected, without giving any indication, Ed  has
 >>shown only 1/4 of my second message to Algrin and none of my
 >>first.

 >Friedman, you are full of it. There are only two messages from
 >you up to this point posted to UFO UpDates:

 >Your original message offering for sale a translation of a
 >copyrighted COMETA report which expressely prohibits anyone from
 >selling such a translation without prior approval. No where in
 >the message do you address Algrin in any way whatsoever.

 >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m24-016.shtml

 >The second message of yours where you responded online to Algrin
 >and which I quoted from:

 >http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/2000/may/m25-008.shtml

 >In this message, you refused to revoke the standing offer placed
 >on the first message and proceeded to question whether or not
 >Algrin was the real Algrin. As if somehow that was relevant. The
 >fact is you got caught red-handed trying to peddle a copyrighted
 >item without ever bothering to get permission before you put on
 >your marketing hat on. Since Algrin's original message to this
 >list, you have not shown any good faith in either wanting to
 >revoke your apparent illegal offer, or contacting COMETA
 >independently of Algrin and directly. Instead, you have gone
 >into your logical fallacy mode and have switched this discussion
 >from the copyright abuse issue which stands on its own inspite
 >of whether or not the real Algrin ever brought it up in the
 >first place and attacked the messenger instead.

 >>I specifically asked about purchase of their publication and
 >>offered to pay royalties, and provided phone and fax numbers
 >>and asked of we could talk.

 >Not in the two messages posted above. The first message you
 >offered to sell for $10.00 something that is copyrighted
 >protected and which you ignored. The second message you tried to
 >build a straw man around Algrin himself and avoided any mention
 >that you, Stanton Friedman, have been caught red-handed
 >attempting to peddle an item that is copyright protected without
 >ever securing permission in the first place.

 >>Ed, do you think you might just possibly get facts in hand
 >>before putting computer in gear? Or is that too much to ask?

 >Which part does Algrin have wrong? Have you previously applied
 >to COMETA for permission to sell their product?  Where have you
 >rescinded your offer to provide translations of the original,
 >also copyright protected, on this list that you announced your
 >offer?

 >>As it happens this translation was arranged for by FUFOR while
 >>in contact with COMETA and was paid for by Lawrence Rockefeller
 >>not by COMETA.

 >What gives you the right to sell it? Answer the above questions.

 >>My latest attempt to pin down publication date
 >>(last night) indicated that no arrangements have been made yet
 >>for US Publication by COMETA.

 >What gives you the right to sell it? Answer the above questions.

 >>Ed, I suggest that you sit down. I have stood up and tried to
 >>provide a service to the UFO community.

 >At $10.00 a pop for something you had no involvement in
 >creating. Please, spare the horsemanure it costs you that much
 >to copy ninety pages and postage. It is not even relevant.

 >>Originally copies were
 >>made so that I could distribute a number of them free to people
 >>like Jeff Rense, Edgar Mitchell, the local CP reporter, etc.

 >Then what happened? Tells us why you decided to capitalize on
 >this opportunity and sell this report for $10.00 a pop? A report
 >originally created and copyrighted by COMETA including any
 >translations attempted from the original, a report you had no
 >input into, a translation you had no input into. Tells us how
 >much of that $10.00 is going to COMETA for creating the
 >original, or how much is going to FUFOR for arranging the
 >translation you are peddling? It doesn't appear FUFOR charged
 >you anything for arranging the translation themselves? In
 >another message Steve Kaeser stated that FUFOR is giving the
 >translation away to journalists. Did they know ahead of time
 >that Stanton Friedman was going to be selling the translation to
 >anyone wanting one for $10.00 a pop?

 >What bothers me is that Stanton Friedman had the opportunity to
 >do the right thing twice, and twice he has instead decided to do
 >the wrong thing and now appears to feel justified in attacking
 >messangers instead. You had the opportunity to contact COMETA
 >first before you decided to sell their report for $10.00 a pop.
 >You did not.

 >You had the opportunity to contact COMETA independently and
 >directly after Algrin notified you that you were in violation of
 >COMETA's copyright. You did not, and instead decided to posture
 >online building a strawman argument as to whether or not Algrin
 >was legitimate, as if he wasn't legitimate, then it was alright
 >for Stanton Friedman to continue violating COMETA's copyright.
 >Unadulturated garbage, but standard Friedman.

 >It is apparent that the real Stanton Friedman has stood up. He
 >should be easily recognizable by anyone on this list that has
 >followed this thread.

 >Ed Stewart --


I have forwarded the full text of my communications with
"Algrin". to EBK. One reason for questioning who he is (i.e. is
he really an attorney?) is his use of the totally inappropriate
terms plagiarism and counterfeit, and furthermore his making no
effort to determine the facts of the matter.Despite my request
he provided no phone or fax number. Incidentally he has not
provided a letterhead nor any further response, nor any
indication of wherein COMETA has been damaged by my offering
copies (many have commented to me that the price is reasonable
especially since it includes 1st Class Postage). We all see
loads of copyright items on the Internet including, for example,
a version of the Zeta Reticuli Incident. Complaints are made
about the US Government withholding information. Here we have a
quasi-government organization whose report was first published
in July 1999, witholding it from publication. Not offering to
sell copies, nor to accept a royalty.

I had copies for months made for reporters whom I hoped would
do a big article of the sort done by Leslie Kean. The report
came up in a show I did with Jeff Rense not long ago and I
mentioned I had a copy of the Translation. He asked about
distributing it and having to make a decision on the spot, I
said yes.

I could hardly send a letter to COMETA in Response to "Algrin's"
angry email. Mail from here would take at least a week.

I should add that several people have expressed gratitude for my
making this available since there didn't seem to be any other
place to get a report so favorably covered by The Boston Globe.

One reason I have made copies of "Blue Book Special Report 14"
available (no copyright problem in the USA, but there would be
in the UK where the government must be paid for publication of
government documents) is that it seems inappropriate to talk
about something and then say "sorry, you can't have a copy, even
though it has been translated". One might think that the
distribution of free copies would be even more damaging to
COMETA.

Any international copyright attorneys out there?

I am sorry if I have caused distress to FUFOR and COMETA.
Causing distress to Ed Stewart sort of goes with the territory.

By the way, I understand Leslie Kean was on with Mike Siegel
last night. Anybody know if she said anything about
availability?

Stan Friedman








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   May > May 27

                          Arthur C. Clarke Knighted

From: Steven L. Wilson, Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 13:22:35 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 13:59:45 -0400
Subject: Arthur C. Clarke Knighted


Friday, 26 May, 2000, 15:06 GMT 16:06 UK

Arthur C. Clarke Knighted


The private ceremony was held at the UK High Commission in
Colombo.

The science fiction writer, Arthur C Clarke, has been knighted,
more than two years after the title was conferred on him.

UK High Commissioner to Sri Lanka, Linda Duffield, presented the
"Award of Knight Bachelor" to the novelist at a ceremony in
Colombo, where he resides.

The investiture ceremony was delayed until Sir Arthur was
cleared of charges of paedophilia, brought against him after an
article published in the Sunday Mirror.

Sir Arthur has always maintained his innocence.

He was due to travel to London earlier this year to receive the
award from the Queen, but was unable to do so because of post
polio syndrome.


I Have Every Reason To Be Happy

Sir Arthur C Clarke

"I feel like a lobster," Sir Arthur, who is confined to a
wheelchair, is reported to have said.

"I have every reason to be happy and, yes, I am very happy," Sir
Arthur said at the ceremony at the high commissioner's
residence.

The private ceremony was attended by many of the author's close
friends.

Arthur C Clarke, 82, is regarded as a space-age visionary, who
predicted space travel in 1945, long before rockets were tested.

One of the best known science fiction authors, Sir Arthur has
written more than 80 books, including the classic 2001: A Space
Odyssey.

He has made Sri Lanka his home and has lived on the island since
1956.


The Arthur C. Clarke Foundation







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               'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sunday, May 27, 2000

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:11:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:11:57 -0400
Subject: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sunday, May 27, 2000

Tomorrow night, Sunday, on 'Strange Days... Indeed':


   ----------------
  /// Dennis Stacy
-----------------

Dennis Stacy was the editor of the monthly MUFON UFO Journal
from 1985 to 1997. He received the 1995 Donald E. Keyhoe
Journalism Award for a six-part series on UFOs that appeared in
Omni Magazine. He is also the author of The Marfa Lights: A
Viewer's Guide, and, most recently, he co-edited UFOs 1947-1997:
Fifty Years of Flying Saucers with Hilary Evans.

Dennis' is, along with Patrick Huyghe, the co-author of the
recently published 'The Field Guide to UFOs: A Classification Of
Various Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Based On Eyewitness
Accounts' - [Quill, 2000]


   ------------------
  /// Patrick Huyghe
------------------

Patrick Huyghe is the author of the first volume in this series,
'The Field Guide to Extraterrestrials' (Avon Books, 1996). His
articles on UFOs have appeared in the New York Times, Omni, and
other magazines. With Dennis Stacy, he also edits and publishes
The Anomalist, a print and web-based journal

http://www.anomalist.com/

that explores the mysteries of science, history, and nature.


 From the Introduction To 'The Field Guide to UFOs'

http://www.anomalist.com/books/fgufo.html

The late J. Allen Hynek, Air Force astronomy consultant for
Project Blue Book and founder of the Center for UFO Studies that
now bears his name, once referred to the sheer number of UFO
reports as an "embarrassment of riches." The numbers would
certainly seem to bear him out. One Gallup public opinion poll
revealed that nine percent of the adult American population,
equivalent to about 11 million people at the time, had seen what
they thought was a UFO. Extrapolated worldwide and over time,
the number of UFO witnesses from the last half century alone
easily extends to the tens, if not hundreds, of millions--only a
minuscule fraction of which are ever reported to the military,
law enforcement officials, or civilian UFO research
organizations. The most commonly reported reason for failing to
make a report public is fear of ridicule from one's family,
friends, neighbors, colleagues.

This inherent embarrassment of numbers includes an embarrassment
of forms as well. While the general public perceives flying
saucers and Unidentified Flying Objects as one and the same, the
reports paint a dramatically different picture. Indeed, the
classic "flying saucer"--imagine a spinning, discus-shaped
object with a smaller, rounded dome or canopy in the center--is
on a par with such Hollywood stereotypes as the prostitute with
a heart of gold and the stolid, solitary gunslinger. In reality,
so-called "daylight discs," as they are referred to by
ufologists (those who study UFOs as a hobby or avocation),
constitute but a small percentage of all UFOs reported. The
overwhelming majority of UFO reports belong to what Hynek called
"nocturnal lights," those amorphous blobs of variously colored
lights seen singly or in formation against the dark background
of the night.

Obviously, if we had had, say, 37 million reports of the same
object since Kenneth Arnold's landmark 1947 sighting, we would
all be more or less agreed that an invasion of advanced and
presumably extraterrestrial technology was now well under way.
But the fact of the matter is that UFOs are routinely reported
in a vastly bewildering variety of shapes, forms, and behavior.
It's one thing to contemplate that we're being visited on a
regular, if not daily basis, by extraterrestrial visitors. But
it's quite another to posit the position that planet Earth
represents little more than a convenient truck stop on some
intergalactic highway, a brief stopover between one edge of the
Milky Way and the other for every passing vehicle of alien
manufacture and its occupants.

� 2000 by Dennis Stacy and Patrick Huyghe


Join Dennis, Patrick and co-host Mike Woods and I, along with
Dave Furlotte with his 'Take On It', at 21:00 Eastern, as we
discuss these Strange Days... Indeed on:

News Talk Radio Toronto - CFRB 1010 AM - 50,000 watts

CFRX in the 40 Metre band at 6070khz Shortwave

and the Eureka Digital Broadcast System in Toronto.

For those of you having difficulties in connecting to CFRB's
server via the web, please note the connection info below...

You can also listen via Media Player by opening the
player and pasting the following URL into 'File'/'Open':

http://cfrb.com/cfrb.asx

and connect ahead of time - the site gets really busy.


To call the program dial:

On-Air     [1] 416-872-1010
             1-800-561-CFRB [In Ontario]
             *TALK [local mobiles]

Next week, our guest will be Chupacabra Researcher Scott Corrales









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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Ed Stewart <ufoindex@jps.net>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:32:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 15:44:58 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:05:05 -0300
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >Any international copyright attorneys out there?

<snip>


        Administrator of the Association COMETA
        Mr. Michel Algrin
        25, boulevard Saint-Germain
        75005 Paris
        France


Ed Stewart
----------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Stewart ufoindex@jps.net|So Man, who here seems principal alone,
There Is Something         |Perhaps acts second to some sphere unknown.
    Going On!       ,>'?'<, |Touches some wheel, or verges to some goal,
Salvador Freixedo  ( O O ) |'Tis but a part we see, and not a whole.
---------------ooOO-(_)-OOoo------- Alexander Pope, Essay on Man -------









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   May > May 28

                          Filer's Files #21 -- 2000

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:15:02 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 07:39:58 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #21 -- 2000


Filer's Files #21 -- 2000,  MUFON Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer,  Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
May 27,  2000, Majorstar@aol.com  (609) 654-0020
Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

Dr. Carl Gustav Jung, Pioneer of psychiatry, stated in 1954:

"A purely psychological explanation is ruled out... the discs
show signs of intelligent guidance, by quasi-human pilots... the
authorities in possession of important information should not
hesitate to enlighten the public as soon and as completely as
possible" (Dr. Carl Jung on Unidentified Flying Objects,
'Flying Saucer Review', Vol.1, #2, 1955.)

Unfortunately, however, there are good reasons why the UFOs
cannot be disposed of the in this simple manner. It remains an
established fact, supported by numerous observations that UFOs
have not only been seen visually but have also been picked up on
the radar screen and have left traces on the photographic plate.
It boils down to nothing less than this: that either psychic
projections throw back a radar echo, or else the appearance of
real objects affords an opportunity for mythological
projections." ('A Fresh Look at Flying Saucers', Time, August
4, 1967.)


UFO REPORTS DECREASE WITH SOLAR STORMS

Mark Buitron writes, "I was happy to see a recent report from Filer's Files
#20 mentioning the Solar Magnetic connection to the UFO sighting levels. In
1998, I also came to the conclusion that there was such a connection. I
compared data from 1994 through 1996 and found proof that during large Solar
Magnetic events and storms the UFO levels dropped in many cases to near Zero.
I wrote and posted a report called the 'UFO Scheduler' in which I used these
findings. In that report I also pointed out that UFO sightings peaked during
times when the four inner planets around the sun lined up in certain
configurations. My theory was that the UFO entities were using the planetary
configurations to conduct most of their interplanetary flights. I suggested
several reasons why such configurations would have increased the efficiency
of their missions. I knew that some UFO types did not seem to match the
Solar Magnetic theory. What I discovered was that when solar magnetic clouds
reached levels of what scientists called B(nT) of 10, that nearly all UFO
types ceased to be seen near earth. In the few cases when they were seen,
such as when a large cylinder UFO the ships seemed to be in some distress, as
in wobbling a great deal. More interestingly I found that FTs (Flying
Triangles), other polygons, and spheres tended to ignore these magnetic
storms. Only when B(nT) levels reached 15 or greater, did these types of
craft tend to diminish.

My conclusions were these: 1. Large cylinders, saucers, cones, and falling
fireballs represent incoming shuttle or packet ships from space. Smaller
ships associated with these such as small saucers, also tend to avoid solar
magnetic storms, mainly because they are associated with these incoming
mother ships. 2. Flying Triangles are a kind of earth based
TRACTOR-Workhorse. They especially are used during periods when incoming
motherships may be experiencing trouble, such as during solar storms.   3.
Small spheres appear to be a kind of earth based jeep. They often are used
as beacons when they are seen to be stationed in one spot for long periods of
time. They too ignore solar storms. I mentioned in 1998, that by 2000, the
UFO groups would be experiencing a drop off of interest because I saw the
coming solar storm period as a period when UFO levels would be dropping off.
Thanks to:  Mark Buitron  al_sadr@yahoo.com

STS 101 SHUTTLE SPACE WALK AND UFO?

200 MILES ABOVE EARTH -- Cliff Rowe reports he was watching day three of the
STS 101 shuttle/space station live Internet broadcast May 21, 2000, between
12:30 AM and 2:30 AM. I had the shock of my life while watching the
astronauts on the Internet as they performed their duties working outside of
the shuttle. Suddenly in the black background of space, a silvery disk with
a slight dome on top appeared just to the right of the shuttle and stayed
fixed in that spot for a few seconds. It held its position for ten seconds
and then shot off to the left and disappeared. The image of the bright
silver disk was very sharp and distinct, in fact it was more defined than the
image of the astronauts hanging on to the space station. A minute later,
another light appeared to the left of the space station, but seemed to be
further away and not as sharp. It also stayed fixed for a few seconds then
it suddenly disappeared. All of this took place during the time the
astronauts began working on the shuttle arm on the outside of the shuttle and
before they returned to the shuttle bay. It is possible I was seeing a
camera reflection but this film should examined. Does anyone have a copy of
NASA of day 3 broadcast?  Thanks to Cliff Rowe  ufo@husa.cc cliff rowe
<husa@flash.net>

DELAWARE FOOTBALL SHAPED UFO

WILMINGTON -- On May 17, 2000, a truck driver traveling north on I-495 when
he noticed a big bright light traveling north over the Delaware River at
12:35 AM. The trucker at first thought it was a blimp, but when he got a
real good look, the entire "body" was white/gray and totally illuminated like
the full moon. It was football-shaped two rows of strobing white lights top
and bottom with no other colors. It was very low in the sky, and was moving
at a medium speed. The witness stated, "It was the strangest and most
spectacular thing I've ever seen."  Unfortunately, I could not pull over and
get out of my truck to see if it made any noise, and I did not have a CB in
the cab. All I know, I used to be in the USAF and this object was definitely
NOT an airplane or a blimp. I did not see any wings or stabilizers or a
cockpit. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director National Reporting Center,
www.ufocenter.com.
www.ufocenter.com

NORTH CAROLINA SILENT CRAFT OVER HEAD

CHARLOTTE -- On May 10, 2000, I saw a UFO when I was riding my bike to the
store to get some beer. It was a clear night and I had just left the store
and was enjoying the ride back home when I felt like I was being watched. I
noticed some of the street lights went out and on kind of flickering all up
and down the road at 10:00 PM. I just kept on peddling. There was this huge
solid Triangle, black and silent. It was a floating just about 300 feet up
or so, and sort of swinging from side to side. No lights, no sound. Just
like a big black balloon about 100 feet across. Thanks to Peter Davenport
NUFORC

OHIO BRIGHT LIGHT HOVERS

LORRAIN -- I never thought that in my life, I would ever see a UFO but I saw
one recently around 1:30 AM while working on my computer hobby of 3d
modeling. I looked out the window and saw a bright light hovering in the
sky. I went outside to get a better look and it was still in the same spot.
There was no sound, but I could hear my heart pounding very hard and broke
into a sweat. The color was blue green and white like a metallic shine. I
could see clouds passing under it. Its strange there were no sounds from
something that could shine so bright. Thanks to: reads@adelphia.net (3Dmaster)

OHIO UFO SEEN ON LAKE ERIE'S SOUTH SHORE

SHEFFIELD LAKE -- On Sunday, May 21, 2000, at 11:30 AM, Sarah M. was in a
small town on the southern shore of Lake Erie, when she spotted a dazzling
gleam in the sky. According to Sarah, the UFO approached from the north,
over Lake Erie, and then shot away to the east. The object was a shape about
like an oval and a square. It was very bright. I practically had to use
sunglasses because it was really bright, almost like the sun's rays. It was
about 15 feet high and about 30 feet long, flying 200 feet (60 meters) above
the ground." It flew at an estimated speed of 30 miles per hour on approach
and 60 mph flying away."  Sheffield Lake population 9,800 is on Ohio Route 6
approximately 25 miles west of Cleveland. Thanks to UFO Roundup,Vol. 5, # 21
May 25, 2000, Editor: Joseph Trainer, Masinaigan@aol.com,
http://ufoinfo.com/roundup/

MICHIGAN AIRPORT UFOs

DETROIT -- Dr. Harry Willnus writes he has been following the UFO scene for
more than fifty years. He is the past MUFON Michigan State Director and
presently a MUFON consultant. Regarding Filer's Files recent mention of
UFO's near airports, I must share that I spent 36 years in education teaching
in the Romulus Community School District that contains within its borders the
Detroit Metro Airport. The airport ranks as one of the top ten busiest
airports in the nation. Northwest Airlines uses Metro as a hub. Over my
years of teaching I had classroom contact with thousands of students and
hundreds of parents who resided in different sections of the township. My
intense interest in UFO's became known in the community. Over the years, I
heard hundreds of stories that were UFO related. The reports were sometimes
dramatic, with close-in sightings of strange crafts over roof tops or trees.
All of this occurred in a little community of 36 square miles with a major
airport nearly in the middle of it. Detroit had a major UFO flap in February
and March 1978 .

While some of the sightings made the local papers and TV stations, little
information appeared out state. The flap had major airport implications.
Some of the sightings occurred inside airport fence lines on or near ground
level. A few of the sightings were during the day but most came at night. I
called the FAA tower control people on a daily basis, but never did receive
any confirmation of any UFOs during the specific times sightings were
reported. There were dozens of other cases in nearby communities, some
multiple witness affairs. The whole flap was pretty exciting. Then it died
out after several months. My own guess is that some UFO's use airports as
"hiding places". Since there are multiple sets of lights around busy
airports at night, it becomes easier for these strange crafts to go about
their business without attracting a lot of attention. My gut fleeing is that
major US airports have numerous UFO sightings by people who reside in the
immediate airport area. Generally these sightings are seldom reported.
Thanks to Dr. Harry Willnus NOKNOWNOSE@aol.com. Editor's Note: Some of our
best cases are in sight of Philadelphia Airport and McGuire Air Force Base.
A vice president of a major company claimed the UFOs would hover near his
home ten miles from the airport. When helicopters or planes flew near the
disc shaped UFO, it would hide in the trees.

MISSOURI FLYING TRIANGLE SIGHTINGS

Barbara Becker writes, "In investigating the triangle sightings here in
Missouri. I began to wonder if there was a correlation to the moon cycles.
When I saw the boomerang shaped object in Kansas City it was a beautiful
moonless night. Very dark. In fact, dark enough that I could have easily
missed the object all together even though it was right over my head. I then
recalled the summer I investigated a flap in Missouri. The thing that is
most striking is that the nights of the most activity were moonless prior to
moon-rise or after moon-set. I am not saying that we were in a new moon
phase, no, I am saying that the moon, in whatever phase, was below the
horizon, making it a very dark night. I am interested in hearing others
thoughts on this Barbara Becker UFO Research Network

http://members.xoom.com/uforn

Editor's Note:  A similar timing of Flying Triangle operations occurred in
England for many years. Eight sightings of such objects were reported from
New Jersey to California and British Columbia from May 8 - May 14, most
occurring between the hours of 9:00 PM and 10:00 PM. Sightings included one
in Edinburg, IL on May 7; two on May 8 in Carpineria, CA and Kamloops, B.C.;
two on May 13, near Randle, MN and Independence, MO; and three in New Jersey
on May 14, near Union Beach, Tuckerton, and Stafford Forge.

ARKANSAS FLYING TRIANGLE MAY BE SATELLITES

Regarding the article "Arkansas Flying Triangle" in Filer's Files #19, it
sounds like what these people saw were three of the NOSS satellites. I saw
them myself a few months ago and they look just like the Arkansas
description. These look highly unusual when you see them. It is part of a
secret space project whose official name remains a topic of debate, so
observers dubbed it the "Naval Ocean Surveillance System," or NOSS. The US
currently operates three sets of spy satellites, launched consecutively in
1990, 1991 and 1996. These satellites orbit pole-to-pole in groups of three
at an altitude of 1,100 kilometers, monitoring the position, speed and
direction of military ships at sea by detecting radio and radar signals and
then triangulating the point of origin. Thanks to:  Ted Toal Nevada City, CA

IOWA ABDUCTEES AND FIBROMYALGIA

Su Walker writes thanks for hosting such a fantastic site. I am a weekly
reader and look forward to Monday's latest postings!  I have a comment on the
fibromyalgia and abductees connection from personal experience. I have
found, personally, that my fibromyalgia is made much worse by antibiotics.
There is some sort of a fungal connection and high carbohydrate and sugar
makes the pain worse. Antibiotics only seem to serve to kill of the "good
bacteria" in the system. I would like to read more about the
"nano-bacteria."  As a professional medical intuitive, I have seen something
like nano bacteria (I have called them proto viruses/bacteria much simpler
DNA structure than regular) for more than ten years. I have kept a log of my
own conscious experiences since June 4, 1998. If you would like to read
about my own abduction/encounter experiences, you may find them at:
http://www.suwalker.com/june_4.htm  and
http://www.suwalker.com/experiences.htm . Bev Trout, our Iowa MUFON State
Director is a friend and has helped me a great deal in my self education in
encounters and experiences. Thanks to  Su Walker  suwalker@ames.net

CALIFORNIA FLYING TRIANGLES RETURN

CARPINTERIA -- Don Robertson writes, "At our MUFON meeting last night, I
asked one of our members if he would be interested in filming the Triangle
that shows up almost nightly when conditions are clear. He has a night
vision video camera so we'll see how that goes. Skywatcher Kirk reports that
there has been a new flurry of Triangle sightings the first two weeks of May
2000. The first sighting this year occurred on May 1, when he and his
thirteen-year-old son, Joe, saw the object. "It was pretty high up," said
Kirk, "not as low as it usually is. It was triangular outlined by small
lights, and flying from southwest to northeast. Consecutive sightings took
place on May fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth."  On May 7, Kirk
walked out on the patio and looked up into a clear, star-studded sky at 10:15
PM to see one at 2000 feet. "As soon as I looked up, there it was," he
exclaimed. "I was really excited!" " He went back inside and told his family
the object was back again."  Then Kirk heard his neighbor calling him from
outside. Kirk's neighbor was very skeptical about UFOs. So Kirk kept
scanning the sky, and spotted the Triangle in the western sky coming back
toward them from Santa Barbara up the coast. The object was now much lower,
about five times the size when he first saw it. "There it is!"  Kirk yelled,
pointing at the large ship. "I grabbed him by the shoulder and pointed him
right at it."  He just stood there saying, "Oh my God!  What is that?"  " I
told you it was out here flying around," Kirk told him.

They watched as the craft made a hundred and eighty degree turn back towards
them and started following the nearby 101 freeway toward Santa Barbara.
"Look at the wingspan on that thing," the neighbor said. "It's huge!"  "But
there's really no wings on it, they look thicker than that," Kirk explains.
"You can tell it's not a plane. The thing was gray looking' -- you could see
the metal on it; you could see not just the lights, but what the lights were
attached to. It was kind of the color of a Navy ship. The back end went in
a little bit, but followed the shape of a triangle. It had no tail and no
fuselage. There is absolutely no sound. The past two years it shows up in
May."  Last year the object showed up three nights in a row starting on May
22, 1999. It made three appearances on the twenty-second. The Triangle
started a slow turn to the right and finally stopped directly over Kirk's
house. "I was so scared I ran inside!" he said. But Kirk told me on May 19,
that the triangle has shown up almost nightly when conditions are clear. We
have had some fog lately. He also said that many of his neighbors have also
seen the object near the Canalino School and from the bluffs overlooking the
ocean in Carpinteria. One interesting aspect of these sightings is that one
night while he was out looking for the object, he saw another triangular
formation passing silently overhead, and realized that it was a flight of
geese. Thanks to Don Robertson
Editor's Note: Carpinteria is about 100 miles west of Edward's Air Force
Base. Some of these Flying Triangles may be government aircraft.

COVINA/LAVERNE -- Bill Casey, Director of Investigations, MUFON LA wrote I
received the following report. On May 12, 2000, at 10:17 PM, a male witness
and his fianc were exiting their vehicle at her home and noticed something
floating in the night sky. It was gray in color and first appeared to be a
bird with a large wingspan hovering over her house. Upon closer inspection,
they both realized that it was a UFO that floated about 500 to-2000 feet
above them. It moved slightly faster than a blimp, but not as fast as a
conventional aircraft at less than 50 miles per hour. It was very well
camouflaged in the orange-gray night sky with very tiny and faint orange
lights all over it's under carriage. The craft had a wingspan of about 30 to
60 feet in the shape of a boomerang. The craft did not change course or
speed as it moved in a northeast direction. There were no engine sounds or
navigational lights common to conventional aircraft. The witnesses agreed
that they had observed a UFO, and advanced technology. The witnesses noticed
some police helicopter activity about two miles away but the UFO was headed
in the opposite direction. The witness was a senior aircraft maintenance
technician in the Air Force reserves and is very familiar with conventional
aircraft. His cell phone was inoperative for the next three days. Thanks to
Bill Casey,

GERMANY SIGHTING UPDATE

MAYEN -- Regarding Filer's Files #14 dated 4/10/99. Stephan Marzi a 14 year
old, writes on February 11, 1998, my friend's Sebastian Krull and Benjamin
Braun saw a UFO. We were in position to record it through my camcorder and
we used the 15 x zoom function. That was a mistake because there are no
reference objects in the video. You can see the shape of the object and its
silver color. It wasn't dark so you can also see it looks like a circle and
definitively had no real wings. It flew at an estimated Mach 2 or 1200 mph.
There was absolutely no noise. The object came back a second day too, but it
flew much faster and higher. Sincerely,  Steve Marzi  Drylake.cjb.net
marzi@smartie.de

AUSTRALIA 1947, FIRST EVER SIGHTING OF A UFO

It was a cold dark night in 1947, and the street lights in our small country
town in Australia had gone out. It was about 9:15 PM, when my schoolmate and
I got on our bicycles and rode towards our home. All of a sudden the whole
area lit up like daylight and looked in horror at some huge jelly fish type
object just above our heads. It got the impression it could not land because
of the power lines or because it was too wide to land in between the shops.
We simply stood there for a good three minutes occasionally looking down, at
ourselves, in amazement. It was about the height of a normal lamppost, and I
had a clear and uninterrupted view of the whole UFO and what was inside it.
Many lights under it appeared as if coming from a dozen or so torches
directly on us and around us. It slowly flew upwards and reached high in the
sky diminishing to the size of a football. It turned away towards a place
called Dookie College. We got on our bicycles and went home and never told
our parents or anyone for years. It was a few months later that people were
reporting flying objects in the sky in Australia and several months later,
the American Roswell crash incident in July happened. I believe we were the
first people to have a close encounter with a UFO!  What I saw, and what
happened later, and followed in the past decades is amazing. I want to get a
promoter to help me with having some UFO Seminars in America. I am going
back over fifty years now, so those interested in my real life experience may
email me direct to Dr. Neil McIntyre D.D. bushytail@magiccomputers.com.au.

MD COMMENTS ON ABDUCTEES AILMENTS "ET DISEASES"

Dr. Joseph Burkes, regarding last weeks Filer's Files #20 and Bruce
Maccabee's, Ph.D., comments that many abductees have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
(CFS), Fibromalgia and similar yuppie type diseases."  Dr. Burkes writes, "I
am a practicing internal medicine physician and volunteer UFO investigator, I
believe the search for "Et diseases" will likely be quite fruitless."  The
basic problem has to do with our current level of knowledge where there is no
reliable data concerning the actual frequency of CE-4 type experiences in the
general US population. Surveys suggest that possibly one percent or less of
responders might have high strangeness type experiences that might be CE-4s.
Many of the interactions are also interpreted as other paranormal phenomenon.
  Without a proper denominator as to the true numbers of so called "alien
abductions" it is impossible to determine whether an illness associated with
an experiencer is present at more, less or at the same frequency as in the
general population. The biases of self-reporting are legion. UFO
investigators frequent pick and choose the cases they care to report,
depending on how those cases match their pet theories. The self help groups
led by abduction counselors do not pick up contactees who are allegedly
having favorable interactions because they are not complaining that they have
been victimized and are discovered. Many of these counselors are often
merely trained as hypnotherapists and they lack a network of referrals to
clinically trained and board certified medical and psychology specialists.
The problems go on and on.

Eight years ago, two courageous physicians in my medical group interviewed
over 2500 patients from our practice concerning whether they had had a UFO
sighting and other type of interactions with non-human beings that might be
extraterrestrial in nature. Their results were quite important. The project
was done on an informal basis but with their supervising physicians support
in the departments of immunology and family practice. Their study was
rejected by every major professional journal that they submitted their
findings to. Ten percent of the responders had a sighting. Five percent so
close that they could identify it as an anomalous structure craft that often
carried out non-ballistic movements and was not simply a nocturnal light.
One percent of the 2500, about 25 individuals reported interactions with
non-human beings. Many of those interactions were described in what might be
construed as so called "angelic" in nature. The great thing about this study
was that my colleagues had complete medical records on the potential
responders and removed from consideration any patient who had a history of
psychiatric problems or chemical dependency. My two colleagues became
fearful when John Mack reported having to spend close to $100,000 in legal
fees in an attempt to avoid censure by the Harvard Medical School Faculty.
They ceased their study and their attempts to publish what is to my knowledge
the only population based clinical survey carried out by physicians on this
subject. There is always a tendency to blame in our patients. Those who
feel they are being victimized by non-human intelligence of a presumed
extraterrestrial nature have been ignored by the mainstream medical community
and often are under great pressure to draw attention to their plight. This
is not an atmosphere to carry out constructive sober medical investigations.
Sincerely,  Joseph Burkes MD  Md1jb3@pol.net

BOSTON GLOBE Newspaper changed its URL address from the one I posted last
week to the Globe Online:   Date: 5/21/2000  Headline: UFO Theorists Gain
Support Abroad, but Repression at Home. If you're interested in seeing the
story about the French  Cometa UFO Report:  see
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/142/focus/UFO_theorists_gain_support_abroad_
but_repression_at_home%2B.shtml

FLYING SAUCER WIND TUNNEL TESTING AT WRIGHT FIELD

Robert Collins writes there apparently was flying saucer wind tunnel testing
at Wright-Patterson AFB in 1947. The below is only page 1 of 2 pages and
comes from an 80 page declassified package (1994) detailing Counter
Intelligence Corps (CIC) collection requirements or information gathered on
the Horten Brother's Flying Wing type aircraft. These documents were
courtesy of Tim Cooper. The document makes reference to what are called EEIs
or Essential Elements of Information which gives a    background of "what to
look for" in gathering information or   "what has been found" on "flying wing
type aircraft" which    includes "flying saucers. "  Although these 80 pages
of declassified reports mix the subject of flying wings and saucers together,
there was never any evidence that the Germans tested "flying saucer" type
aircraft. For further information please see,
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/reports/wpafb_update.htm   And,
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rigoletto/Sanctuary_Of_The_Birds.htm   for
updates.

SPECIAL OFFER for readers of "Filer's Files" Camelot Computers is offering a
one year free domain name with a year of web hosting. Prices for hosting
start as low as $9.99 a month. Camelot can get your site off the drawing
board. Visit them at www.camelotcomputers.com or contact Webmaster. Website
dealing with the paranormal is our specialty. Chuck Warren, Camelot
Computers, Web Development Director,  www.camolotcomputers.com

SPECIAL NEW JERSEY UFO VIDEO FOOTAGE of strange objects building and moving
in the sky taken by Reverend Damion Barna. Only $25.00
SPACE SHUTTLE FOOTAGE: There is a great deal of speculation about UFOs being
seen from the space shuttle. Decide for yourself, Jeff Chandler has put
together raw video footage of the NASA downloads. Learn exactly what is ice
crystals and camera smudges?  You can decide for yourself. Jeff gives
pointers on how to look for UFOs versus the standard excuses. This is raw
footage but well worth seeing. Only $25.00.
PHOTOGRAPH BOOKLET of some of the best UFO shots available and data on their
propulsion systems by US Navy Commander Graham Bethune.. $10.00. Send check
or money order to G. Filer 222 Jackson Road, Medford, New Jersey 08055

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports
subscribe by contacting Mufon@aol.com. Mention I recommended you for
membership. Filer's Files is Copyrighted 2000 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post items from the Files on their Web Sites provided
that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of
issue that the item appeared. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com.
Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your
name. Please state if you wish to keep your name, address, or story
confidential.









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 28

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:34:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 07:42:37 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:40:14 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Yes, this is for DST.

 >According to the newspapers, DST began April 30.  Mother's Day
 >sounds about right. Each town had to vote whether to go on DST.
 >E.g. Salem and Forest Grove voted April 10 to do so. I don't
 >know if the McMinnville city council also so voted, but it would
 >be foolish not to adopt the same time standard as the bigger
 >burgs around you. So I assume yes.


According to all reports it was about sunset, stated as about
7:30 PM. Sunset, according to the local airports, was at about
7:30 LST... local standard time, not daylight time. Mother's Day
was after the photos.

The numbers you gave for altitude and azimuth agree exactly with
Sheaffer's calculation of 27 or so years ago. The sun was due
east at about 7:30 AM standard time which would have been 8:30
DST.








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   May > May 28

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:07:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 07:47:17 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:23:55 -0500
 >From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:20:27 -0400 (EDT)
 >>Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:08:45 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >>>The object of interest
 >>>is _still_ a fuzzy, black and white "thing" floating in the
 >>>middle of a blank sky with no reference points what so ever. It
 >>>doesn't go behind anything and is too small and grainy to
 >>>ascertain its identity or origin other than it looks
 >>>suspiciously like a milk can lid. In essence, you've got
 >>>>damned UFO!

 >You replied:

 >>Rubbish! As you very well know, relative luminance values can be
 >>used to determine whether the object was more likely to be a
 >>close object (hence a hoax) or a distant object (real).>

 >You are absolutely right, David. Luminance levels _can_ be used
 >(_very_ roughly) to determine the distance of an object. >

 >But not in this case.

 >Why? Because we don't know what the reflective values of the
 >"mystery object" are beforehand. Now why is this important?
 >Because without having the values of the object as a baseline
 >for comparison, then we don't know what the changes in luminance
 >indicate. It is just that simple and you know this to be true
 >(or should). If you want to _assume_ that the object has a
 >particular value to start with, that's okay. But then you are
 >obviously just guessing and the results would be no more
 >conclusive than just looking at the photo and saying, "Gee, it
 >all ANYONE can do. There just isn't any enough info in the
 >photos to consider unless you make assumptions, which you
 >obviously have.

 >Regarding such, David wrote:

 >>Luminance measurements are consistent with a distant object. If
 >>it was a hoax, then you have to account for the overly bright
 >>shadowed bottom of the object.>

 >No, David, YOU have to account for the overly bright shadowed
 >bottom of the object. You are the one that says the object is
 >distant. Is it your position that the bottom would not be as
 >bright if it were up close? The case could be made either way.
 >Sure, tones lighten due to atmospheric haze in the distant, but
 >then again, footcandles also fall off the farther away they get
 >from the source. In one scenario, it would get darker, in the
 >other it would get lighter. Is the object shiny or dull? Is it
 >painted flat or glassy? Is the bottom the same as the rest of
 >the object? If the bottom were shiny or mirrored, then who knows
 >what we're seeing in that part of the photo. This may all seem
 >silly to you, but unless you know what the reflective values of
 >the "mystery object" are beforehand (and you absolutely do not),
 >such analysis is nothing short of a guess.

In order to avoid "bad science" let me point out the main point
of the reanalysis I did of Hartmann's calculation of distance.

It is true that we don't know a priori what the reflectivity of
the bottom of the Unidentified Object (Flying if distant, not
flying it neaby), but that doesn't prevent us from making an
assumption about the bottom brightness...specifically the
assumption that gives the hoax-hypothesis its best chance of
working!

Hartmann pointed out that the brightness of th bottom was greater
than would be expected for a _white_ surface. White is as bright
as a surface can get without itself being a source of light.
Then Sheaffer pointed out that veiling glare could account for
the brightness of the image.

Then I pointed out that both Hartmann and Sheaffer had neglected
to take into account the fact that a white vertical surface (wall
of distant or nearby white house wall) would be roughly 2.5 times
brighter (due to reflecting skylight) than the brightness of a
horizontal white surface seen from below. This factor essentially
"compensated" for the veiling glare and resulted in a recalculated
distance that was equal to or greater than HArtmann's calculated
distance.

POINT: by initially assuming a white surface bottom (90% diffuse
reflectivity) I was assuming the bottom was as bright as it
could be without being a source of light. Any lower
reflectivity, such as suggested by the Trents' claim that the
borrom was darker appearing than the top, would lead to a
calculated distance _greater_ than one gets by assuming the
bottom is as diffusely reflective for all colors as possible
(e.g., white).

I then pointed out that the UFO could still be a neaby model if
the bottom were a source of light. For example, a model with a
translucent bottom and a small flashlight inside. But that
wouldn't work because a light bulb would create a "hot spot" in
the bottom brightness and there is no hot spot. I then concluded
that some sort of totally paper model might work, sicne light
could filter through the top paper and then down through the
bottom paper. However, in my own experiments simulating a paper
model in the morning sunlight, the model did not produce a
uniformly bright bottom as in the UO image. But maybe I didn't
make it exactly the same was as one might assume the Trents
would have.

Then Sheaffer or someone said, perhaps it was a mirror bottom.
This is "very reflective". But that suggestion shows that the
suggester didn't understand the significance of "reflectivity"
as used here. A mirror bottom (or polished metal) would reflect
the ground light and the ground, even though illuminated by the
sky, is not as bright as white

Bottom line: if not a source of light, the bottom of the UFO, at
least, was far away. If a source of light then the Trent's
didn't hang a 6" diameter garbage can lid or a small pie pan and
photograph it. Whether or not they might have had a translucent
plastic dish that shape that they could hang upside down is
something we cannot now answer.

Dyed in the wool skeptics will assume that whatever was needed
the Trents had. More analytic minds will realize that the photos
are a wash and any proof one way or the other lies in the
context, the circumstantial evidence, i.e., the life history of
the Trents and their proclivities (were they likely to cary of
practical jokes, for example).










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                      Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 5-27-00

From: Rense E-News <jocelyn@the-i.net>
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 23:53:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 07:50:30 -0400
Subject: Jeff Rense Weekly E-News 5-27-00


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                          Are We Alone?

                       by Dennis Balthaser

When becoming involved with the subject of ufology at any level,
we are faced with the fact that things are seen in the sky by
different individuals, that are not explainable as anything we
know about, or have seen before. I suppose that's why it's so
important to understand that UFO, means "Unidentified Flying
Object". Does that mean they are extraterrestrial and from
another world? Not necessarily. 90% of what people see are
explainable objects, either caused by natural phenomenon,
(planets, stars, comets, ball lightning, etc.), or man-made by
us here on earth, such as airplanes, balloons, etc. The
remaining 10% continues to mystify us, many times reported by
credible individuals, with no logical explanation for what they
have seen or experienced. If they are in fact craft from another
world, are they unmanned probes or are they controlled by living
beings of some sort? If and when it's proven that these UFOs are
actually maneuvered or controlled by living beings from
somewhere other than the earth, then the answer to the question
"Are We Alone", might finally be known.

I have as many others have, read many of the books about aliens,
and have interviewed several witnesses claiming to have actually
had experiences with alien life forms. I'm not qualified to be
judgmental on what I was told, but I honestly believe that many
that shared their experiences with me did actually experience
something, and I felt a deep obligation to at least listen to
them. When possible, I referred them to more qualified
professional researchers to pursue their experiences.

Years ago I reported the planet Venus as being a UFO, only to
find out that I was mistaken. Who could argue with the fact that
the F-117 or B-2 Stealth aircraft, at certain angles of
observation, could easily be mistaken for a UFO. How many other
newly developed craft are in our possession that the public
doesn't know anything about, because they are still classified
for national security, which is a viable reason for not making
them public.

The research of this subject almost places one in a "Catch 22"
situation. I know in my case as a researcher and investigator, I
want to be told, if in fact we have alien craft and/or alien
beings in our possession. On the other hand, I do not want any
foreign threats to our nation because we publicly told the world
about new technology or craft that we're developing. I no longer
believe that the public would panic over the news that we are
not alone in the universe, as was more prominent 50 years ago,
because today people are much more educated and open minded to
such possibilities. Perhaps the people in charge in our
government or military don't believe that, or maybe, and this
would be a worse scenario, this is the Government's way of
controlling us. After all, "IF" we have been in the past and are
currently being visited by extraterrestrials from another world,
as many believe, maybe our military and political leaders can't
do anything about it, consequently until they can, if they ever
can, they won't admit it exists, because I believe that would
cause concern among the masses. Unfortunately, in many
instances, we no longer know whether to believe our leaders or
not, based on their records for the past several years with such
things as Vietnam, IranContra, Watergate, and the fact that we
have four excuses for the Roswell Incident. In some of the Air
Force reports about the Roswell Incident, there were no bodies,
then there were bodies, but they were anthropomorphic dummies.
They were 3 1/2 ft. to 5 ft. tall...the dummies were 5'-8" to
5'-10" and not even used until several years after the Roswell
Incident. We no longer know if we're being told the truth or
not.

Just within recent years Scientists, Engineers and Astronomers
have been talking about the "possibility" of life elsewhere in
the universe. The odds are just to great, considering the number
of stars and planets that are out there to think we're alone.
That would be taking our own egotism to the maximum. That type
thinking by professional, respected individuals, of itself is
good news, but I still have a problem with the universal
statement usually made by those type people that, "life as we
know it", might exist somewhere else. Where in the rulebook does
it say that it has to be life as we know it? To me this shows
the limitations of the human mind to be able to only associate
with things we already know about. Who's to say that they
breathe oxygen and walk upright? Perhaps they crawl on their
stomachs, (if they have them), and breathe sulfuric acid. I
cannot rule out the fact that if they can get here from wherever
they are from, they are drastically different from us, and are
so far advanced of us that we cannot possibly understand or
relate to anything connected with them. I believe it was Stanton
Friedman who once said, "intelligence-wise, we humans are trying
to get into the pre-school of the universe".

Also, if life doesn't exist anywhere in the universe other than
on this little blob of mud and water we call earth, why are we
and other countries spending the billions of dollars we spent to
search for other life forms out in space? That money could
certainly be used for our benefit here on earth to fight
poverty, help our environment and other things that are
drastically needed, or out of control in many instances. If
aliens from another world do exist, why would they want to
communicate with us? We seem to be destroying the planet as fast
as we can with pollution, cutting down the rain forests, and
depleting the ozone layer. We can't get along with our
neighbors, other ethnic groups and certainly not with many other
countries, so what realistically could we offer to a life form,
so advanced that they can get here, but we can't go there yet? I
hope there is a civilization somewhere with higher intelligence
than us. Just maybe we can learn from them...before it's too
late. I had a fourth grade art teacher who once said "man will
someday get so smart, he will destroy himself ". I have never
forgotten that statement and during the cold war, believed it
might actually happen.

Recently, a nationwide poll of nearly 1,500 people (including a
number of leading astronomers and astrophysicists), was
conducted by the syndicated cable television show Dateline:USA,
which found that more than 70 percent of those surveyed, believe
there is intelligent life in the universe, perhaps even in our
own Milky Way Galaxy. Seventy percent is a higher percentage
number than most politicians receive to be elected. Is it time
for our leaders to listen to the people that put them in office,
and get back to our Constitution which starts with "We the
People"?

The opinions of those surveyed, were evenly divided on whether
aliens would be hostile or not. Nearly 80 percent of those
surveyed were convinced that alien technology would be more
advanced than ours, which of course it would have to be, simply
to be able to get here, across millions of light years of space.
So, there are probably "just not aliens, but intelligent
aliens".

In my opinion, recent missions and probes by NASA have done a
lot to again stir interest in this age-old question: are we
alone? Hopefully that question can be answered in our lifetime.

Virtually all the respondents to the Dateline survey agreed that
alien beings from other worlds will not "look like us". One
surprising result of the survey to me, was the fact that 65
percent of those surveyed, felt that we'd be conquered or
annihilated if an alien race invaded earth. If in fact aliens do
exist and have been visiting our earth as long as many believe
they have, would they not have had ample time to do that
already, if in fact that was their motive for coming or being
here. Certainly our military is much more "high tech" today than
it was only a few years ago to defend ourselves from any
invasion. As much as I hate to admit it, maybe we're not worth
invading, until we can get up to their level. But then again, if
they are advanced enough to get here, will we ever get to that
level? As the art teacher said, maybe we'll destroy ourselves.
Could that be what they are waiting for?

So I'm not answering the question, but prefer to let you decide
"Are we Alone"? Many indications seem to imply that we are not.
If we are alone, maybe it's time we took a long look at
ourselves before we get so smart that we do destroy ourselves,
because if that happened and we are alone in the universe, the
earth would be a very quiet place and a terrible waste.

Dennis G. Balthaser
Email truthskr@roswell.net
http://www.truthseekratroswell.com


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   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 28

                               Corso & COMETA

From: William Sawers <syntax@i4free.co.nz>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:32:10 +1200
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 07:53:33 -0400
Subject: Corso & COMETA


Does anyone think that The COMETA Report mentioning Col Philip
Corso in a positive way significant or at least interesting?

I always felt Col Corso was genuine. Time may have jumbled a few
details, maybe even a lot of details, but the core of "The Day
After Roswell" IMO is sound.

Anyone?

William









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   May > May 28

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:01:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:14:24 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:05:05 -0300
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >I am sorry if I have caused distress to FUFOR and COMETA.
 >Causing distress to Ed Stewart sort of goes with the territory.

 >By the way, I understand Leslie Kean was on with Mike Siegel
 >last night. Anybody know if she said anything about
 >availability?

 >Stan Friedman

Stan, and list-

Stan's intent is in the right place, and I don't believe he was
fully aware of the full scope of the negotiations that took
place in obtaining permission to distribute the translation to a
specific group of people. As noted by Dennis Stacy, the COMETA
group has been very careful in their discussions, and they have
an interest in publishing the report in English on their own.
However, they understand the importance of making it available
to the media and certain Government officials in a more timely
manner and agreed to the proposal put forth by the Fund for UFO
Research to help in that distribution.

A very small number of translations have been printed and sent
out to selected media contacts. The report will, I believe, also
be the subject of the lead article in a new media newsletter
that the FUND is establishing within the next month or so. This
will hopefully generate additional requests for the full report
by those in the press who are interested.

As we discuss the possible publication of the full report, it's
important to keep in mind that it's only about 90 pages long.
The addition of graphics and formatting could stretch that out a
bit, but that's really too short for a standalone publication.
Like others, the FUND has discussed the concept of selling
copies to the general public, but the French want to see if they
can interest a major publishing house in the project. I believe
they are looking at the concept of incorporating some other
papers that led up to the full COMETA report in their
publication, but that will take time to translate and put
together. Unfortunately, I don't see this being resolved in a
short period of time.

Steve









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   May > May 28

                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Virgil Priscu <docv@netvision.net.il>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:03:35 +0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:29:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:32:10 +1200
 >From: William Sawers <syntax@i4free.co.nz>
 >Subject: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Does anyone think that The COMETA Report mentioning Col Philip
 >Corso in a positive way significant or at least interesting?

 >I always felt Col Corso was genuine. Time may have jumbled a few
 >details, maybe even a lot of details, but the core of "The Day
 >After Roswell" IMO is sound.

 >Anyone?


Hello William and List.

As I have mentioned in an earlier posting to the list. I have
the original (French ) version of the Cometa Report.

Page 52 mention (on half a page) "The thesis of Col. Corso" - as
you mentioned. in a positive way.

A relevant phrase seems to me:

"Certaines de ces assersions sont pour le moins surprenantes,
mais l'ensamble du contenu du livre ne peut etre aisement
ecarte, lorsqu'on considere la cariere remarquable de son auteur
et l'eloge que fait de lui le senateur Thurmond."..

In my rather free translation:

"Certain of his assertions (Ccorso's in his book) are. at least
surprising, but the whole content of his book cannot be easily
dismissed. If we consider the remarkable career of his author
and the prize made of him by senator Thurmond".

I think that the mention of Corso in the Cometa report is
positive and add credibility to his book.

Personally (I read the book) I found some of his material a bit
'unbalanced': that is devoid of a 'cooler'/analytic perspective
and tending to the sensationalistic side of things. That doesn't
add credibility.

The Cometa Report, on the other hand is some of the best
material on the (UFO) subject I've come across in many years.

regards:

Virgil










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   May > May 28

                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:19:34 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:32:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:32:10 +1200
 >From: William Sawers <syntax@i4free.co.nz>
 >Subject: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Does anyone think that The COMETA Report mentioning Col Philip
 >Corso in a positive way significant or at least interesting?

 >I always felt Col Corso was genuine. Time may have jumbled a few
 >details, maybe even a lot of details, but the core of "The Day
 >After Roswell" IMO is sound.

 >Anyone?


I agree with you.

I already gave my opinion on this list. I attended his
conference in San Marino shortly before his death in 1998, and I
had the opportunity to talk briefly with him. I found a man very
calm, the opposite of a compulsive hoaxer.

I think his co-author Birnes is responsible for a lot of the
nonsense in the book (and what about Corso's author's fees,
which allegedly he never received: anyone could confirm that?).

At the official dinner, he was with his daughter in-law and two
grandchildren - a family of very good education. I can tell you
that because I was at the same table, and I talked with her.

Perhaps, some day, we will know more about all this.

Gildas Bourdais









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 28

                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:32:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:35:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA

 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:32:10 +1200
 >From: William Sawers <syntax@i4free.co.nz>
 >Subject: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Does anyone think that The COMETA Report mentioning Col Philip
 >Corso in a positive way significant or at least interesting?

 >I always felt Col Corso was genuine. Time may have jumbled a few
 >details, maybe even a lot of details, but the core of "The Day
 >After Roswell" IMO is sound.

 >Anyone?


William-

The fact that Corso is mentioned in the COMETA report doesn't
make his claims more credible. The purpose of this report was
not, as far as I can tell, to provide proof of any claims that
have been made over the years, but to express the concern that
there are enough reports to justify preparation for evenual
contact with an alien race. There are many who have written
Corso off, and indicated that his information simply makes no
sense. Many others have written off the Roswell incident as a
fairy tale that grew from a ill-concieved cover story, but that
is also mentioned by the COMETA group.

IMO, the importance of the COMETA report is not in the facts
that they review, but in the fact that the report was issued at
all by a group such as this. They're not trying to prove
anything, but indicating that there's enough smoke to mean that
there must be a fire burning somewhere and we (Mankind) should
be prepared.

What I find interesting is that most people view this entire
genre as an extension of the entertainment medium, including
most reporters and politicians. This report, issued many months
ago in France, has received little or no publicity from the
media (with the Boston Globe article being one of the few). My
understanding is that it didn't really sell very well in France,
and I don't know if it received much coverage there, but it has
had little impact on the discussions on the "net". If we
actually had a landing on the White House lawn, how many people
would write it off as an entertainment event and turn the
channel?

I want to mention that the COMETA Report is (if memory serves)
the second report issued by this group in France, with the first
report compiled 20 (?) years ago. Nearly five years ago a
special report entitled "Best Available Evidence" (BAE) was put
together by the UFO Coalition, and copies of that report were
sent to the media, business leaders, and Goverment
representatives around the world. The BAE apparently helped to
ignite interest in the COMETA group to follow up on their
earlier report on the subject. The Best Available Evidence was
never actually sold to the public, but is to be featured in the
first of a series of books on the subject of UFOlogy being put
together by Whitley Strieber and Dell Publishers. That release
is reportedly due out in the next 30 to 60 days.

Steve










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 28

                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:24:02 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:38:22 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 18:07:59 -0400
 >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:23:55 -0500
 >>From: Roger Evans <raka@swbell.net>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:20:27 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>Fwd Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:08:45 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>>>The object of interest
 >>>>is _still_ a fuzzy, black and white "thing" floating in the
 >>>>middle of a blank sky with no reference points what so ever. It
 >>>>doesn't go behind anything and is too small and grainy to
 >>>>ascertain its identity or origin other than it looks
 >>>>suspiciously like a milk can lid. In essence, you've got
 >>>>>damned UFO!

 >>You replied:

 >>>Rubbish! As you very well know, relative luminance values can be
 >>>used to determine whether the object was more likely to be a
 >>>close object (hence a hoax) or a distant object (real).>

 >>You are absolutely right, David. Luminance levels _can_ be used
 >>(_very_ roughly) to determine the distance of an object. >

Bruce Maccabee wrote:

 >POINT: by initially assuming a white surface bottom (90% diffuse
 >reflectivity) I was assuming the bottom was as bright as it
 >could be without being a source of light. Any lower
 >reflectivity, such as suggested by the Trents' claim that the
 >borrom was darker appearing than the top, would lead to a
 >calculated distance _greater_ than one gets by assuming the
 >bottom is as diffusely reflective for all colors as possible
 >(e.g., white).

 >I then pointed out that the UFO could still be a neaby model if
 >the bottom were a source of light. For example, a model with a
 >translucent bottom and a small flashlight inside. But that
 >wouldn't work because a light bulb would create a "hot spot" in
 >the bottom brightness and there is no hot spot. I then concluded
 >that some sort of totally paper model might work, sicne light
 >could filter through the top paper and then down through the
 >bottom paper. However, in my own experiments simulating a paper
 >model in the morning sunlight, the model did not produce a
 >uniformly bright bottom as in the UO image. But maybe I didn't
 >make it exactly the same was as one might assume the Trents
 >would have.

 >Then Sheaffer or someone said, perhaps it was a mirror bottom.
 >This is "very reflective". But that suggestion shows that the
 >suggester didn't understand the significance of "reflectivity"
 >as used here. A mirror bottom (or polished metal) would reflect
 >the ground light and the ground, even though illuminated by the
 >sky, is not as bright as white

 >Bottom line: if not a source of light, the bottom of the UFO, at
 >least, was far away. If a source of light then the Trent's
 >didn't hang a 6" diameter garbage can lid or a small pie pan and
 >photograph it. Whether or not they might have had a translucent
 >plastic dish that shape that they could hang upside down is
 >something we cannot now answer.

 >Dyed in the wool skeptics will assume that whatever was needed
 >the Trents had. More analytic minds will realize that the photos
 >are a wash and any proof one way or the other lies in the
 >context, the circumstantial evidence, i.e., the life history of
 >the Trents and their proclivities (were they likely to cary of
 >practical jokes, for example).

Dear Bruce, EBK, Lister Tail Twisters, etc.

Gentlemen,

Bruce had worked on this project to the point of exhaustion, at
least in my opinion. One point he makes relates (as I understand
it) to the even distribution of light over a surface. Having
spent five plus years on a consultative assignment, studying
various light sources including electroluminescence, LED and
others, toward the goal of achieving an even distribution of
light over an area through numerous filters and media, I almost
guarantee that these farmers back in the 50's could not possibly
have had the solution we never found to exist.

Of course, this was a commercial project. The materials we
sought at the time (1992) were _not_ available to us, with which
to provide an even distribution of light over a surface. The
only item which came close was electroluminescence, and that had
just recently been developed in 1992 and had not then been
perfected.

So for someone back in the fifties or even sixties to provide a
photo of an object with any degree of evenly distributed light
over a surface would have been next to impossible without
retouching the film. This is not indicated in the subject
photos, thanks to Bruce and other like him, even thanks to some
really hard core skeptics.

Jim Mortellaro, wearing my Teltech Consulting Hat....









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                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:55:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:39:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:32:10 +1200
 >From: William Sawers <syntax@i4free.co.nz>
 >Subject: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Does anyone think that The COMETA Report mentioning Col Philip
 >Corso in a positive way significant or at least interesting?

In a word, No. Actually, it is significant in a way -- just not
the right way!

 >I always felt Col Corso was genuine. Time may have jumbled a few
 >details, maybe even a lot of details, but the core of "The Day
 >After Roswell" IMO is sound.

 >Anyone?


There was a genuine Col. Corso, if that's what you mean.

Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily mean that even 10% of
his book is true, never mind its "core."

What is its core, BTW, that virtually all the major American
technological breakthroughs since 1947, were seeded out to
industry by Corso himself,  from UFO debris he found languishing
in a file cabinet in the Pentagon? That he almost singlehandedly
won a spurious Cold War and saved humanity from alien invasion?

It helps sometimes, you know, to take a step back from some of
this stuff. And that would apparently include a few high-ranking
French military officers.

Dennis








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:49:11 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:43:11 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:51:22 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:41:08 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >>If Trent was so intent on carrying out a hoax to the point of
 >>carefully camouflaging a suspension thread, why would he leave
 >>the means of suspension (i.e. the power lines) visible in the
 >>photos ? All he had to do was reframe the pictures to eliminate
 >>the power lines.

 >David,

 >You amaze me.

Thank you Dennis. Occasionally I even amaze myself.

 >Regardless of whether the Trent photos were hoaxed or not, Trent
 >wouldn't have had to have in mind the idea of camouflaging a
 >suspension thread one way or the other, as he would have no
 >foreknowledge that such a suspending thread (assuming same was
 >actually employed) could be ascertained by advanced
 >photogrammetric (sp?) analysis.

Of course I agree. For somebody deliberately trying to pull off
a hoax, or to somebody just making good-looking flying saucer
pictures for their own amusement, the point of camouflaging a
suspension thread is to make it invisible to the eye, _not_ to
hide it from technology that hasn't been invented yet.

My choice would have been clear nylon sewing thread out of Mrs.
Trent's sewing basket.

I seriously doubt the best computer analysis could detect it
from a distance of about 20 feet.

 >Put simply, it wouldn't have been a concern.

Making it invisible to the eye would definitely be a concern to
a deliberate hoaxer.  I don't know of a single UFO picture using
a thread where the hoaxer didn't try to do that.

 >So your question as
 >to why he would include the power lines in the photographs is
 >nothing more than a rhetorical straw man of your own reasoning.

Camouflaging the thread was an example of but one thing Trent
would have had to do to pull off the hoax. The main point is
this. If he was deliberately trying to pull off a hoax to the
point of carefully planning how to take the pictures plus
plotting the perfect cover story along with Mrs. Trent, after
all that, why leave clear evidence behind of how the hoax could
have been done? A simple reframing of the pictures would have
eliminated the tell-tale overhead wires. It's like pulling off
the otherwise perfect murder with the perfect alibi but not
disposing of the murder weapon.

It's a really dumb mistake for a clever hick hoaxer fooling the
city slickers, as some of our resident skeptics have tried to
portray him.

On the other hand, if these were just recreational pictures and
the whole thing got out of hand, then Trent probably wouldn't
care about the wires when he originally took the pictures. But
then it is even more difficult to understand how the Trents,
without any planning at all, quickly conjured up a story of what
happened that seems to square exactly with the photo details,
many of them very subtle.

 >Eliminate the power lines and other points of reference, and
 >what have you got? A saucer shape against a sky background, with
 >no points of reference whatsoever.

Who could argue with logic like that? If you remove all points
of reference, then all you have left are photos with no points
of reference whatsoever.

Would this best be called circular reasoning, begging the
question, or an example of "a rhetorical straw man of your own
reasoning?"

Now back to the real world. One thing that makes the Trent UFO
photos unusual is that they DO have many points of reference,
including two vantage points that allow for triangulation of
positions. That allows scientific testing for authenticity. So
far they've passed all tests. Not only is there no evidence of
hoaxing, it is also very difficult to understand how the photos
could have been made at all, without making a number of unlikely
assumptions of how the hoax was pulled off. The more such
assumptions you have to make, the less probable a hoax becomes.

 >I like the Trent photographs. I just don't know if they're real,
 >but I do know your above line of reasoning isn't. In fact, it's
 >eerily similar to the line of reasoning you accuse skeptics of
 >assuming.

Pot -- kettle -- black. If you want a classic example of really,
_really_ bad reasoning, go check out your own above, regarding
the removing all points of reference from the photos.

David Rudiak








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                        Re: Filer's Files #21 -- 2000

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:54:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:46:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #21 -- 2000


 >Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:15:02 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
 >Subject: Filer's Files #21 -- 2000
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Filer's Files #21 -- 2000, MUFON Skywatch Investigations
 >George A. Filer, Director, Mutual UFO Network Eastern
 >May 27, 2000, Majorstar@aol.com (609) 654-0020
 >Web Site at www.filersfiles.com. - Chuck Warren Webmaster.

 >Dr. Carl Gustav Jung, Pioneer of psychiatry, stated in 1954:

 >"A purely psychological explanation is ruled out... the discs
 >show signs of intelligent guidance, by quasi-human pilots... the
 >authorities in possession of important information should not
 >hesitate to enlighten the public as soon and as completely as
 >possible" (Dr. Carl Jung on Unidentified Flying Objects,
 >'Flying Saucer Review', Vol.1, #2, 1955.)

This bogus quote was the focus of an international uproar in the
summer of 1958, after the Lorenzens revived it in their A.P.R.O.
Bulletin and it got picked by an Associated Press reporter. Jung
was embarrassed, and the Lorenzens ended up making an
unqualified apology to him, and AP retracted the story. The
quotation above was taken out of context from some highly
qualified remarks Jung made in a 1954 letter to a columnist for
the Zurich weekly Die Weltwoche.

It is almost certain that Jung maintained a private conviction
that UFOs are probably of extraterrestrial origin, but he was
circumspect in what he was willing to say publicly. His most
open statement is in the final chapter to his Flying Saucers: A
Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies (1959). It is, however,
unfair and misleading to use words Jung specifically disavowed,
and he specifically disavowed the words quoted above.

For a full discussion of Jung and the UFO phenomenon, see The
UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd Ed., pp. 547-49.

Jerry Clark









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                          People's Rally At Area 51

From: Norio Hayakawa <Groom51S4@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 16:54:13 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:02:12 -0400
Subject: People's Rally At Area 51


PRESS RELEASE:


People's Rally to be held in Nevada, near AREA 51 (Groom Lake)


Anywhere from 250 to 300 concerned citizens are expected to
attend this year's People's Rally at Area 51 in Nevada. The
three-hour rally will take place on Tuesday morning, June 6,
2000, beginning at 6 a.m. right at the restricted boundary line
on Groom Lake Rd. in Lincoln County, Nevada, almost right next
to the world's most "famous" and controversial "secret base".

The Area 51 People's Rally was started by Norio Hayakawa,
resident of Torrance, California (and formerly with the
Citizens' Watchdog Group on Government Oversight) in 1998 to
protest the secrecy around Area 51 and the violation of
environmental and other laws, which may have led to the death of
several former workers at the "notorious" base.

Hayakawa has recently retired from his pursuit of Area 51
research and has passed on his mission to Joerg Arnu, part-time
resident of Rachel, Nevada, the closest community to the base,
22 miles north of Area 51. Joerg is also the webmaster of
"Dreamland Resort", official homepage of Rachel's well-known
establishment and gathering spot, the Little A-Le-Inn:

http://www.dreamlandresort.com

A press conference will be scheduled in Rachel at noon on
Monday, June 5 at the Little A-Le-Inn (Tel. 775-729-2515) and,
according to Joerg, that evening there will be a camp-out at the
border of the restricted area by Groom Lake Rd. for those who
will be attending the Rally on Tuesday morning.

Anthony J. Hilder, former talk-radio host and co-organizer of
this year's rally emphasizes that the People's Rally is a legal,
public gathering and will take place on public land. The event
will be a peaceful get-together of concerned citizens, and there
will be speakers at the rally to address several key issues.

One of the issues is the continuing plight of former Groom Lake
(Area 51) workers who are still suffering from illnesses caused
by long-term exposure to toxic chemicals without their knowledge
while working at Area 51, the base that still doesn't officially
"exist".

At the rally, the following proposals will be made:

1) that the government, through an appropriate agency and
through the public media, give a statement of assurance that all
former workers were or are being medically treated for their
illness and were or are fully compensated.

2) that the government construct a clearly marked fence along
the boundary line by Groom Lake Rd., instead of vague, thin
orange posts posted wide apart.

3) that the government construct a new Guard Shack at the
restricted boundary line by Groom Lake Rd., instead of the
present Guard Shack which is hidden more than a third of a mile
inside the restricted area. The current hidden Guard Shack
causes confusion, and bears the potential of unintentional
violations of the border.

4) that the government admit and name this multi-faceted
military base in more concrete terms and not just a vague
designation like an "operating base near Groom Lake" which is
still being used. The lack of an official name for the base
could bring about more problems in the future when dealing with
lawsuits should they arise from any future accidents.

Although Norio Hayakawa has recently abandoned his
conspiratorial beliefs in regards to the aura of "mystery"
surrounding the base (i.e., the belief that the government had
purposely concocted, disseminated and manipulated popular
theories linking AREA 51 with 'alien' conspiracies and
"one-world government" conspiracies in order to discredit any
serious scrutiny of this base) he still believes that the Air
Force has befenited from such popular misconceptions concerning
Area 51.

According to Hayakawa (e-mail: Groom51S4@aol.com) these
misconceptions definitely helped to discredit any serious
scrutiny of this multi-billion dollar military research and
development complex and its programs, some of which may still be
in gross violation of environmental statutes.

Area 51 recently regained national attention when new satellite
photos (both the 2-meter and 1-meter resolution photos), taken
by private satellite firms in 1998 and 1999, were released on
the Internet by a Washington-based national watchdog
organization called the Federation of American Scientists:

http://www.fas.org/irp/overhead/groom.htm

The photos seem to clearly indicate that the base is still quite
active, even judging from the large number of employees' cars
parked around the Operations Building (around 260 cars, even on
a Sunday afternoon when the photos were taken), dispersing any
rumors that the base had been "relocated" elsewhere.

For further information on the People's Rally, please go to:

http://www.dreamlandresort.com

Thanks,

Norio Hayakawa








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              UNESCO Awarded Medal To General [COMETA] Norlain

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:06:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:09:13 -0400
Subject: UNESCO Awarded Medal To General [COMETA] Norlain


Same General Norlain involved with COMETA.

I have a thing with UNESCO being more in control than everyone
else thinks. They refer a lot to 'temples'. It might make you go
hmmm or it may not.

Sue

----------

http://unesco.ias.unu.edu/opi/eng/unescopress/99-54e.htm

UNESCO Director-General Awards Gold Mahatma Gandhi Medal To
French General Norlain - [18 March 1999]


Paris, March 18 {No.99-54} - UNESCO Director-General Federico
Mayor today attributed the gold Mahatma Gandhi medal to retired
French General Bernard Norlain in recognition of his leading
role in conflict prevention and in the promotion of a culture of
peace.

General Norlain has held senior positions during his 36 years in
the French Air Force. Between 1986 and 1989, he was chief
military assistant to French prime ministers Jacques Chirac and
Michel Rocard. He then commanded France's defence and tactical
air forces, and directed the French Institute for Advanced
Studies on National Defence, the Institut des hautes tudes de
dfense nationale (IHEDN). In 1995, UNESCO and IHEDN jointly
organised the International Symposium From Partial Insecurity to
Global Security which brought together representatives of many
defence institutes and made possible the promotion of a new
approach to security, based on the needs of populations.

In awarding the medal, Mr Mayor said it should be viewed as a
sixth star to be added to the general's five: "a very special
star spreading the light of peace, dialogue and tolerance, of
non-violence, the star of the culture of peace." He thanked him
for his contribution to the dialogue between UNESCO and defence
institutes and through them "with the armed forces which are
destined to become active partners in the promotion of the
culture of peace."

After praising the brave idea which enabled military to
co-operate with the "temple of education and culture which is
UNESCO," General Norlain recalled that "peace, like a medal, has
two sides: the humanistic and cultural project and security." He
added: "There can be no democracy without peace and no peace
without security, or stability. Civil society must not be
pitched against military society. There is one society and it
must take part in the same democratic project."









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   May > May 29

                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:53:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:00:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 18:03:35 +0300
 >From: Virgil Priscu <docv@netvision.net.il>
 >Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


 >>Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:32:10 +1200
 >>From: William Sawers <syntax@i4free.co.nz>
 >>Subject: Corso & COMETA
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Does anyone think that The COMETA Report mentioning Col Philip
 >>Corso in a positive way significant or at least interesting?

 >>I always felt Col Corso was genuine. Time may have jumbled a few
 >>details, maybe even a lot of details, but the core of "The Day
 >>After Roswell" IMO is sound.

<snip>

 >Personally (I read the book) I found some of his material a bit
 >'unbalanced': that is devoid of a 'cooler'/analytic perspective
 >and tending to the sensationalistic side of things. That doesn't
 >add credibility.

 >The Cometa Report, on the other hand is some of the best
 >material on the (UFO) subject I've come across in many years.


I would agree with both assessments.









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   May > May 29

                      UFO fanatics to flock to St. Paul

From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:21:54 -0400
Subject: UFO fanatics to flock to St. Paul

Greetings list -

From: http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-05-28-0028.html

UFO fanatics to flock to St. Paul
Sunday, May 28, 2000
By RACHEL EVANS, EDMONTON SUN

If St. Paul holds a UFO conference, they will come.

At least, people from all over this world will come, judging
from interest in the conference's Website, said event chairman
Paul Pelletier.

The second gathering of UFO fanatics in three years in the town
famous for its UFO landing pad is to take off July 7 through
July 9. About 500 people are expected to attend.

"It sounds like it's going to be one heck of a crowd," said
Pelletier, who also organized the 1998 conference that attracted
about 300 people each day.

"We've got registrations from Australia, the United Kingdom, the
United Arab Emirates and all over the U.S. We don't know if
they're going to show up but they're registered."

It's kind of a theme for the three-day, in-depth look at the
unknown - wondering if they've been here and if they'll show up.

In the meantime, visitors to the St. Paul convention will hear
from people like Dr. Bruce Maccabee of Washington, D.C., who
determines whether films of UFO sightings are genuine, and UFO
field investigator Ted Phillips.

The growing popularity of the convention is a welcome boost for
the town's business community, said Pelletier, who's also
vice-chairman of the local economic development board.

"Economics has two sides to it," he said. "There's the physical
cash but also the promotional value. As more people from all
over start talking about the conference, they talk about St.
Paul. It's certainly a nice boost."

St. Paul is 208 km northeast of Edmonton.

---

Best regards,

- Blair Cummins
ufoblair@hotmail.com









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                        Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:45:24 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:25:13 -0400
Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice


 >Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:41:55 -0700
 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >>Source: Cosmiverse - The Online Portal For Space
 >>                     and Science Enthusiasts

 >>http://www.cosmiverse.com/paranormal.html

 >>CAUS Files Appeal Notice

 >>May 24, 2000 08:32 CDT

 >>Arizona-based Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) filed its
 >>notice Tuesday that it will appeal a U.S. Circuit Court decision
 >>to dismiss its lawsuit against the Department of Defense.

 ><snip>

 >>Following the dismissal of the lawsuit Mar. 30, CAUS immediately
 >>launched an Internet campaign to raise $10,000 to appeal the
 >>decision to the U.S. Court of Appeals.

 ><snip>

 >>That said, Gersten said he's taking his first leave of absence
 >>from CAUS, and going on vacation until June 10, visiting friends
 >>and associates in New York.

 >A guy heading a _non-profit_ organization saying he won't be
 >doing anything for free and then taking a vacation after a fund
 >raiser. Am I the only one seeing this?


Royce,

Being a "non-profit organization" does not mean that he is
working for free, or that he can't take time off.

For example many of the major groups are so called "non-profit"
but the officers and directors rake in the bucks as salary and
so forth.

As I recall what being a non-profit means that the "organization
itself" cannot end the tax year with a profit.  They are allowed
to earmark and save money for specific projects.

If Peter was able to take a week or two off, goody for him. I
hope that I can take a week or two off this summer myself.

Cheers,

Robert









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:29:58 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:27:03 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 03:20:08 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Here's a table of the sun's azimuth and elevation in the morning
 >>on May 11 at Trent's position:>

 >>Time               Azimuth      Elevation
 >>6:30 a.m.           70.7           6.0
 >>7:00                75.7          11.1
 >>7:15                78.3          13.7
 >>7:30                80.8          16.3
 >>8:00                85.8          21.5
 >>8:30                91.1          26.8

 >I should amend these values slightly. They are for McMinnville,
 >not the Trent farm, which was about 11 miles WSW of McMinnville.

 >The correct values for the Trent farm on May 11,1950, at Lat 45
 >d 06' N, Long 123 d 20' W are (and carrying further on into the
 >morning):

 >Sunrise 5:49 a.m.

 >Time (PDT)             Azimuth    Elevation
 >6:30 a.m.               70.5          5.9
 >6:45                    73.1          8.4
 >7:00                    75.6         10.9
 >7:15                    78.1         13.5
 >7:30                    80.7         16.1
 >7:45                    83.2         18.7
 >8:00                    85.8         21.4
 >8:15                    88.4         24.0
 >8:30                    91.0         26.7
 >8:45                    93.7         29.3

 >Evening values are:

 >7:00 p.m.               281.3        14.2
 >7:15                    283.8        11.7
 >7:30                    286.4         9.1
 >7:45                    288.9         6.6
 >8:00                    291.5         4.1
 >8:15                    294.1         1.8
 >8:30                    296.7         0.4

 >Sunset 8:31

<snip>

 >There is no time on the morning of May 11 when you can get the
 >proper combination of sun elevation and azimuth to reproduce the
 >shadows on the wall. If you get the right height, the shadows
 >are cast too far south. If the sun  is square to the wall to get
 >the proper N/S position, the sun is too high and the shadows
 >cast are much too low.  Sheaffer neglected to mention this. (I
 >wonder why?)

 >These are just irrefutable mathematical facts. To this we can
 >also add two other irrefutable facts that must be true if direct
 >morning sunlight was responsible for the shadows. The wires from
 >which Trent supposedly hung is model would be casting shadows
 >slashing across the oil tank against the garage and across the
 >upper garage wall. But these shadows aren't there in the photos.
 >They would be easily detectable, unless the light source was
 >quite diffuse.

 >The other missing item in the photos is the expected shadow cast
 >by the Trent house on the right side of the garage before about
 >7:30, when the elevation angle of the sun was about right to
 >account for the garage rafter shadows.

 >Thus Sheaffer's hypothesis is refuted by astronomy and what is
 >actually present (or missing) in the photos.
 >
 >David Rudiak

David,

The accepted date is the tenth, but have you ever run the
caluclations to see if another date in May wherein the sun might
match the shadows? Just a thought.

Cheers,

Robert








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                        Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:59:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:07:48 -0400
Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:45:24 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:41:55 -0700
 >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >>>Source: Cosmiverse - The Online Portal For Space
 >>>   and Science Enthusiasts

 >>>http://www.cosmiverse.com/paranormal.html

 >>>CAUS Files Appeal Notice

 >>>May 24, 2000 08:32 CDT

 >>>Arizona-based Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) filed its
 >>>notice Tuesday that it will appeal a U.S. Circuit Court decision
 >>>to dismiss its lawsuit against the Department of Defense.

 >>>That said, Gersten said he's taking his first leave of absence
 >>>from CAUS, and going on vacation until June 10, visiting friends
 >>>and associates in New York.

 >>A guy heading a _non-profit_ organization saying he won't be
 >>doing anything for free and then taking a vacation after a fund
 >>raiser. Am I the only one seeing this?

 >Royce,

 >Being a "non-profit organization" does not mean that he is
 >working for free, or that he can't take time off.

 >For example many of the major groups are so called "non-profit"
 >but the officers and directors rake in the bucks as salary and
 >so forth.

 >As I recall what being a non-profit means that the "organization
 >itself" cannot end the tax year with a profit. They are allowed
 >to earmark and save money for specific projects.

 >If Peter was able to take a week or two off, goody for him. I
 >hope that I can take a week or two off this summer myself.


Dear Robert:

How true. The local (Silicon Valley, California) branch of the
United Way was scandalized by high salaries paid to its
administrators. This resulted in a "reorganization" - something
like the French revolution and a more honest approach by charity
groups in general.

UW was paying its top honchos something like 100K (US) per annum
while dedicated and unpaid staff were out cadging nickels and
dimes from assembly line workers, janitors and so on. Absolutely
disgusting.

BTW: Here's another gimmick for those inclined!

Organize a "John Smith for President" campaign. It doesn't have
to be John Smith, and JS need not even officially declare a
candidacy! US law permits collecting campaign funds. The best
part is that little or no portion of those funds need be given
to the candidate! Try that in Toronto.

(signed)

Dazed, Amazed and slightly dizzy, but still able to find the
keyboard in Redwood City, California


- AKA Larry Hatch









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                    Re: UFO fanatics to flock to St. Paul

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 02:32:39 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:09:28 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO fanatics to flock to St. Paul


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
 >From: Blair Cummins <ufoblair@hotmail.com>
 >Subject: UFO fanatics to flock to St. Paul
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >Greetings list -

 >From: http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-05-28-0028.html

 >UFO fanatics to flock to St. Paul
 >Sunday, May 28, 2000
 >By RACHEL EVANS, EDMONTON SUN

 >If St. Paul holds a UFO conference, they will come.

 >Snip

 >St. Paul is 208 km northeast of Edmonton.

On behalf of UFO fanatics everywhere, welcome to St. Paul
and Canal Street. And may the Schwartz be wit yous.

Gesundt







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                        Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: Royce Myers <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 03:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:11:19 -0400
Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:45:24 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
To: updates@sympatico.ca


 >>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:41:55 -0700
 >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

<snip>

 >>Royce,

 >>Being a "non-profit organization" does not mean that he is
 >>working for free, or that he can't take time off.

Thanks for the incredible insight ;-}  I just find it peculiar
that a guy rakes in $10G to file an appeal in federal court and
is then off on a vacation. While everyone has a right to earn a
living, how much does it cost to file a federal appeal?

<snip>

 >>If Peter was able to take a week or two off, goody for him.

Sure, I'd like to work from home and have other people pay for
my vacations, too! Makes for a nice lifestyle until you start to
run out of cash. Don't get me wrong, ol' Pete may be putting in
his time, but to raise $10G and then hit the road on a vacation
right afterwards, to me, doesn't look good. Ol' Pete made it
clear to me in an e-mail that "everyday is like a vacation" to
him. Apparently not. Of course, what's real doesn't matter...

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpose: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"...or your
luggage and briefing papers on the way out the door to your vacation.
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3 (eXpose)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)









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                              The Hetch Hetchy

From: Larry Hatch <larryhat@jps.net>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 02:07:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:13:26 -0400
Subject: The Hetch Hetchy


Dear sirs:

Like so many frost-bitten Canadians, you have probably forgotten
about the great UFO wave of Redwood City. CA(lifornia) in 1947!

Most notable was the sighting reported by one B. Ballard
(profession unknown, but believed to be neither Japanese or
Mexican) who reported a luminous disk which que survole' le cite
en vol a' la NW (give or take a few degrees.) en une
silencioouixxx formidable. Please forgive my spelling.

This was a quiet machine, and confused poor Mr. Ballard to the
point that he reported it to what few authorities he could. I
have lived in Redwood City for a long long time. Some of My
fondest memories involve little fat Irish girls who knew which
retired cops they could pry a lollypop out of.

I liked one old Irish cop, obviously retired, and with a uniform
full of goodies. Like any good republican, he offered hard
candies which lasted longer and did not disappear so quickly.

- - - - - ( but I digress..)

Two large pipelines from Yosemite run this exact route through
Redwood City. They are the main water-lines from the high
sierras, and are easily visible from Edgewood Road.

This is one of the earliest large earthworks still in use in
California, dating from the turn of the century, or at least
high-buttoned shoes. Please do not press me for details, but I
am positive the Hetch-Hetchy predates my old 1950 Oldsmobile.

That's right, the 4-speed growler.
Gawddam I miss that cawr. [ forgive me. ]


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: The original 1950 Olds was rear-ended by some Samoan on or
about 1967. Subsequent efforts to bomb Samoa in retaliation have
proven fruitless. -LH









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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:47:05 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:22:50 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >Subject: The COMETA Report
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >[Non-Subscriber Post]

 >>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:47:26 -0300
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >>3. For those who would like a copy of the 90 page English
 >>Translation of the COMETA Report, I am making copies available,
 >>as noted on Coast to Coast a few weeks ago, for only $10.
 >>including first class postage from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME
 >>04730-0958. Or call toll free 877-457-0232 to use VISA or Master
 >>Card..

 >>Stan Friedman

 >Mister the Director of list UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >Dear Sir,

 >I took note with great surprise of the message of Stan Friedman
 >on your list (24 May 2000) in which he proposes to sell a
 >translation in English of the 90 page 'COMETA Report: What Should
 >We Prepare For?'.

 >Stan Friedman did not aquire any authorization from us. I point
 >out that COMETA Report is protected (page 4) by the Copyright
 >and that all reproduction, in whole or in part, translation and
 >adaptation rights are reserved for all countries.

 >COMETA is going to publish the translation of this Report in
 >English in the United States.

 >The advertisement of Stan Friedman causes us damage.

 >I will take legal action against him for counterfeit and
 >plagiarism and also against all people who would buy its
 >translation.

 >I ask you to publish this message on your list.

 >Michel Algrin
 >Attorney-At-Law
 >Director of COMETA



As I see it this information is public information scientific
in nature and paid for by a group whose wages are from
the government which in turns is through the taxpayers.

And also as I see it, $10.00 covers postage and handling
and nothing more.

And, also as I see it, most of the information from what I
gather, at the ISSO website as summarized by Guildas Boudrais,
is already knowledge among the UFO community.

http://www.isso.org/inbox/cometa.htm

So what is COMETA copyrighting? The fact that they say 'Yes,
this stuff is real'.

And how can they copyright other people's reports, observations,
findings, analysis of evidence unless of course the scientists,
researchers, etc. have been paid in advance.

If General Norlain is an honourable gentleman in eyes of UNESCO
in the aspect of culture and peace, then should he not honour
their goals of awareness and global distribution of information
for all mankind by producing this educational information? As
UNESCO states on their website, the scientific community has an
obligation to mankind to keep the public informed of results
detrimental the to existence of mankind, and I don't think we're
just talking biosphere here.

Honour that COMETA.

Sue K








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                      UNESCO Declaration On Science...

From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:57:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:28:22 -0400
Subject: UNESCO Declaration On Science...


Records of the General Conference
30th Session, Paris, 26 October to 17 November 1999

Declaration on Science and the Use of Scientific Knowledge and
Science Agenda - Framework for Action 1

The General Conference,

Having examined document 30 C/15,

Endorses the Declaration on Science and the Use of Scientific
Knowledge and the Science Agenda -Framework for Action annexed
to this resolution.2

Preamble 1. We all live on the same planet and are part of the
biosphere. We have come to recognize that we are in a situation
of increasing interdependence, and that our future is
intrinsically linked to the preservation of the global
life-support systems and to the survival of all forms of life.
The nations and the scientists of the world are called upon to
acknowledge the urgency of using knowledge from all fields of
science in a responsible manner to address human needs and
aspirations without misusing this knowledge. We seek active
collaboration across all the fields of scientific endeavour,
that is the natural sciences such as the physical, earth and
biological sciences, the biomedical and engineering sciences,
and the social and human sciences. While the Framework for
Action emphasizes the promise and the dynamism of the natural
sciences but also their potential adverse effects, and the need
to understand their impact on and relations with society, the
commitment to science, as well as the challenges and the
responsibilities set out in this Declaration, pertain to all
fields of the sciences. All cultures can contribute scientific
knowledge of universal value. The sciences should be at the
service of humanity as a whole, and should contribute to
providing everyone with a deeper understanding of nature and
society, a better quality of life and a sustainable and healthy
environment for present and future generations.

3. In addition to their demonstrable benefits the applications
of scientific advances and the development and expansion of
human activity have also led to environmental degradation and
technological disasters, and have contributed to social
imbalance or exclusion. As one example, scientific progress has
made it possible to manufacture sophisticated weapons, including
conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction. There is
now an opportunity to call for a reduction in the resources
allocated to the development and manufacture of new weapons and
to encourage the conversion, at least partially, of military
production and research facilities to civilian use.

4. Today, whilst unprecedented advances in the sciences are
foreseen, there is a need for a vigorous and informed democratic
debate on the production and use of scientific knowledge. The
scientific community and decision-makers should seek the
strengthening of public trust and support for science through
such a debate. Greater interdisciplinary efforts, involving both
natural and social sciences, are a prerequisite for dealing with
ethical, social, cultural, environmental, gender, economic and
health issues. Enhancing the role of science for a more
equitable, prosperous and sustainable world requires the
long-term commitment of all stakeholders, public and private,
through greater investment, the appropriate review of investment
priorities, and the sharing of scientific knowledge.








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                        Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 08:04:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:31:26 -0400
Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:45:24 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Royce,

 >Being a "non-profit organization" does not mean that he is
 >working for free, or that he can't take time off.

 >For example many of the major groups are so called "non-profit"
 >but the officers and directors rake in the bucks as salary and
 >so forth.

Non-profit organizations (NPO) are allowed to have expenses,
which can take the form of saleries for the top management. This
is not usually the case with a small NPO, although some might
hire someone to handle day to day chores.

It's important to keep in mind that NPOs come in all sizes. One
cannot truly compare a non-profit UFO research organization that
receives less than $50,000 a year in donations with the American
Cancer Society, which takes in millions of dollars a year. It
should be noted that there are regulations related to the
disbursement of those donations, and becoming an NPO would also
establish a legal framework in which you must operate.

 >As I recall what being a non-profit means that the "organization
 >itself" cannot end the tax year with a profit. They are allowed
 >to earmark and save money for specific projects.

Actually, I suppose it would depend on how you define "profit".
The importance of being a non-profit organization means that you
are able to take donations from sponsors, who are in turn able
to claim those donations as exempt from taxes. This is important
to those who are trying to raise funds for a cause, whatever it
might be.

 >If Peter was able to take a week or two off, goody for him. I
 >hope that I can take a week or two off this summer myself.

Agreed. While I'm not convinced that the legal battle he has
engaged is likely to bear fruit, I certainly wouldn't begrudge
him the rest and relaxation that he would require as he proceeds
in his effort.

On the other hand, if he is raising large sums of money under
the auspices of an NPO and using those funds to travel to Hawaii
for two weeks of fun the sun, then he might find himself facing
legal challanges from sponsors and the Government.

A few thoughts that have absolutely nothing to do with Memorial
Day.

Steve








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:12:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:35:17 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:49:11 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:51:22 -0500
 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:41:08 -0400
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >Camouflaging the thread was an example of but one thing Trent
 >would have had to do to pull off the hoax. The main point is
 >this. If he was deliberately trying to pull off a hoax to the
 >point of carefully planning how to take the pictures plus
 >plotting the perfect cover story along with Mrs. Trent, after
 >all that, why leave clear evidence behind of how the hoax could
 >have been done? A simple reframing of the pictures would have
 >eliminated the tell-tale overhead wires. It's like pulling off
 >the otherwise perfect murder with the perfect alibi but not
 >disposing of the murder weapon.


David,

Yes, that was my point, which you so conveniently overlooked.

It's you who's trying to interpret the Trents' inner psyche and
motives, not me.

You asked why didn't they leave out the power lines, I asked why
they didn't leave out _every_ frame of reference, following your
line of reasoning, which you assert the Trents would have
adopted and followed. You have no way of knowing that, that is,
you have no way of knowing what the Trents might have done, or
what they might not have done, based on the presence of power
lines in the pictures. It's an unsupportable argument.

<snip>

 >Pot -- kettle -- black. If you want a classic example of really,
 >_really_ bad reasoning, go check out your own above, regarding
 >the removing all points of reference from the photos.

 >David Rudiak


Ditto to you, dude. You said that they would have removed one
frame of reference (the power lines). I simply extrapolated your
argument. Well, if they're going to remove one frame of
reference, why not remove all frames of reference?

BTW, are you aware of the Wilhamette (sp?) Pass, Oregon, photo
hoax?

Dennis Stacy








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                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:28:33 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:10:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:32:10 +1200
 >From: William Sawers <syntax@i4free.co.nz>
 >Subject: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Does anyone think that The COMETA Report mentioning Col Philip
 >Corso in a positive way significant or at least interesting?

 >I always felt Col Corso was genuine. Time may have jumbled a few
 >details, maybe even a lot of details, but the core of "The Day
 >After Roswell" IMO is sound.

 >Anyone?


There are many many reasons to be sceptical of the claims made
by Colonel Corso and Bill Birnes. There is bascially no
substantiation; no references. Corso had a habit of making
grandiose claims.

For example, the roster (4 legal pages, 2 columns) of the group
led by General Trudeau at the Pentagon in June 1961 showed there
were only 2 officers in the Foreign Technology Group.

Corso was the junior officer. He was not a scientist or
engineer, but he singlehandledly saved the world by slipping in
this technology?

In a sworn statement for Peter Gersten, Corso falsely claimed he
had been a member of the NSC. He definitely was not, as noted by
the Ike Library. Peter asked if it should be withdrawn. Corso
said no. I asked him how he knew the date of the Ft. Riley
encounter was July 6... Notes, diary? No, he knew when he was
transferred there, many months earlier. An alien body left in a
warehouse unguarded, no ice being noted? Hardly likely.

Corso's history of seeing Communists under every bed and
supporting segregationist candidate for President, Strom
Thurmond, don't lead to great confidence. When I asked how he
knew the names of the control group, he said there were about a
dozen boards connected with the NSC. Hardly satisfactory. They
didn't meet Thursdays for lunch... Probably came from one of the
books which listed them.

I should also note that Birnes did know a lot about Roswell
having agented a book by Jaime Shandera and Bill Moore about
Roswell.

I consider the comments about Corso a weak point, rather than a
strong point, of the Report indicating the authors hadn't dug
very deeply into Corso...

Stan Friedman








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Donald Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:16:57 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:13:16 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:12:49 -0500
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:49:11 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >>>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:51:22 -0500
 >>>Fwd Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:41:08 -0400
 >>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>>>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
 >>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>>>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >><snip>

 >>Camouflaging the thread was an example of but one thing Trent
 >>would have had to do to pull off the hoax. The main point is
 >>this. If he was deliberately trying to pull off a hoax to the
 >>point of carefully planning how to take the pictures plus
 >>plotting the perfect cover story along with Mrs. Trent, after
 >>all that, why leave clear evidence behind of how the hoax could
 >>have been done? A simple reframing of the pictures would have
 >>eliminated the tell-tale overhead wires. It's like pulling off
 >>the otherwise perfect murder with the perfect alibi but not
 >>disposing of the murder weapon.

 >David,

 >Yes, that was my point, which you so conveniently overlooked.

 >It's you who's trying to interpret the Trents' inner psyche and
 >motives, not me.

 >You asked why didn't they leave out the power lines, I asked why
 >they didn't leave out _every_ frame of reference, following your
 >line of reasoning, which you assert the Trents would have
 >adopted and followed. You have no way of knowing that, that is,
 >you have no way of knowing what the Trents might have done, or
 >what they might not have done, based on the presence of power
 >lines in the pictures. It's an unsupportable argument.

 ><snip>

 >>Pot -- kettle -- black. If you want a classic example of really,
 >>_really_ bad reasoning, go check out your own above, regarding
 >>the removing all points of reference from the photos.

 >>David Rudiak

 >Ditto to you, dude. You said that they would have removed one
 >frame of reference (the power lines). I simply extrapolated your
 >argument. Well, if they're going to remove one frame of
 >reference, why not remove all frames of reference?

 >BTW, are you aware of the Wilhamette (sp?) Pass, Oregon, photo
 >hoax?

 >Dennis Stacy

Hi Dennis,

Re last.

I don't believe that I am. Can you bring me up to speed or
direct me to a summary somewhere?

Don Ledger







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                  [Repost] Summary of French COMETA Report

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:24:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:24:03 -0400
Subject: [Repost] Summary of French COMETA Report

Since some longer term subscribers seem either to have
forgotten that Gildas sent his summary of the Report to
this List in early August, or they blew the original
away - here it is, again.

ebk
_____________________________________________________

Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 17:31:56 -0400
To: "02 - UFO UpDates Subscribers":;
From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@globalserve.net>
Subject: UFO UpDate: Summary of French COMETA Report
:
:
:

From: Gildas Bourdais <GBourdais@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:40:50 EDT
Subject: Summary of French COMETA Report
To: updates@globalserve.net


Hello to all List members

Here is my summary of the French COMETA report, free for
copy and publishing, provided its contents are respected.

Best regards,
Gildas Bourdais


The French Report on UFOs and Defence: a short presentation
by Gildas Bourdais

It must be stressed here that this is an independant report,
written by a private association called COMETA. It is summarized
here with the approval of the authors.

To translate and publish the report itself, in part or in its
integrality, permission should be asked by writing to the
administrator of the association COMETA, Mr Michel Algrin, 25,
boulevard Saint-Germain, 75005 Paris, France.



On Friday 16 of July 1999 was published in France an outstanding
document, called "UFOs and Defence. What must we be prepared for
?" ("Les OVNI et la Dfense. A quoi doit-on se prparer?") This
ninety pages report is the result of an in depth study of UFOs,
covering many aspects of the subject, especially questions of
defence.

The study was carried out during several years by an independant
group of former "auditors" at the very serious Institute of
Higher Studies for National Defence, or IHEDN ("Institut des
hautes tudes de dfense nationale"), and of qualified experts
from various fields. Before its public release, it has been sent
to French President of the Republic Jacques Chirac, and to Prime
minister Lionel Jospin.


This Report is prefaced by General Bernard Norlain, of the Air
Force, former Director of IHEDN, and it begins with a preamble
by Andr Lebeau, former President of the National Center for
Space Studies ("Centre national d'tudes spatiales", CNES),the
French equivalent of NASA.

The group itself, collective author of the report, is an
association of experts, many of whom are or have been auditors
of IHEDN, and it is presided over by General Denis Letty, of the
Air Force, former auditor(FA) of IHEDN. Its name "COMETA" stands
for "Committee for in depth studies".

A non exhaustive list of members is given at the beginning, and
it is impressive enough. It includes:

General Bruno Lemoine, of the Air Force (FA of IHEDN), Admiral
Marc Merlo (FA of IHEDN). Michel Algrin, Doctor in Political
Sciences, attorney at law (FA of IHEDN), General Pierre Bescond,
engineer for armaments (FA of IHEDN), Denis Blancher, Chief
National Police superintendant at the Ministry ot the Interior,
Christian Marchal, chief engineer of the national "corps des
Mines", Research Director at the "National Office of
Aeronautical Research" (ONERA), General Alain Orszag, Phd in
physics, engineer for armaments.

The committee also expresses its gratitude to outside
contributors, among whom:

Jean-Jacques Vlasco, head of SEPRA at CNES, Franois Louange,
President of Fleximage, specialist of photo analysis, General
Joseph Domange, of the Air Force, general delegate of the
Association of auditors at IHEDN.


General Norlain tells in a short preface how this committee was
created. General Letty came to see him in March 1995, when he
was Director of IHEDN, to discuss his project of committee on
UFOs. Norlain assured him of his interest and addressed him to
the Association of Auditors (AA) of IHEDN, which in turn gave
him its support.

It is interesting to recall here that, twenty years ago, it was
a report of that same Association which led to the creation of
GEPAN, the first unit for UFO study, at CNES.

As a result, several members of the committee come from the
Association of Auditors of IHEDN,joined by other experts. Most
of them hold, or have held, important functions in defence,
industry, teaching, research,or various central administrations.
General Norlain expresses hope that this report will help
develop new efforts nationally, and an indispensable
international cooperation.

General Letty, as president of COMETA, points to the main theme
of the report, which is that the accumulation of well documented
observations compells us now to consider all hypotheses as to
the origin of UFOs, especially extraterrestrial hypotheses.

The committee then presents the contents of the study: In a
first part, presentation of some remarkable cases, both French
and foreign; In a second part, they describe the present
organization of research in France and abroad, and studies made
by scientists worldwide which may bring partial explanations, in
accordance with known laws of physics. The main global
explanations are then reviewed, from secret crafts to
extraterrestrial manifestations; In a third part, will be
examined measures to be taken regarding defence, from
information of pilots, both civilian and military, to strategic,
political and religious consequences, should the
extraterrestrial hypothesis be confirmed.


Part I: "Facts and Testimonies"

Many of the cases selected are well known by most researchers,
and need only to be mentioned here. They are:

-Testimonies of French pilots. M. Giraud, pilot of MirageIV
(1977); Colonel Bosc, fighter pilot (1976); Air France flight
AF 3532 (jan 1994).

-Aeronautical cases world wide. Lakenheath (1956); RB-47 (1957)
; Teheran (1976); Russia (1990); San Carlos de Bariloche
(Argentina, 1995).

-Observations from the ground. Tananarive (1954); observation
of a saucer near the ground by a French pilot, J.-P. Fartek
(1979); observation at close range over a Russian missile site,
by several witnesses (1989).

-Close encounters in France. Valensole (Maurice Masse, 1965);
Cussac, Cantal (1967); Trans-en-Provence (1981); Nancy
(so called case of the "Amaranth" 1982).

-Counter-exemples of elucidated phenomena (two cases).

Although the selection is limited, it seems to be sufficient to
convince an uninformed but open minded reader of the reality of
UFOs.


Part II: "The Present State of Knowledge"

The second part, entitled "the present state of knowledge" ("Le
point des connaissances"), begins with a survey of the
organization of the official UFO research in France, from the
first intructions given to the "gendarmerie" in 1974 for the
redaction of reports, to the creation of GEPAN in 1977, its
organization and its results: collection of more than 3,000
reports from the gendarmerie, cases studies, statistical
analyses. It then surveys agreements passed by GEPAN and, later,
SEPRA, with the air force and the army, the civilian aviation
and other organs, such as civilian and military laboratories for
the analysis of samples, and photographies.

Regarding the methods and results, we are reminded of some
famous cases (Trans-en-Provence, l'Amarante), and emphasis is
made on the the catalogues of cases, notably of pilots
(Weinstein catalogue), and "radar/visual", world wide. A
historical note appears here with a quotation of the famous
letter of General Twining, of september 1947, asserting already
to the reality of UFOs.

The following chapter, called "hypotheses and attempts at
modeling" ("OVNI: hypothses,essais de modlisation") discusses
some models and hypotheses which are under study in several
countries.

Partial simulations have already been made for UFO propulsion,
based on observations of aspects such as: speed, movements and
accelerations, engine failure of nearby vehicles, paralysis of
witnesses.

One model is MHD propulsion, already tested successfully in
water, and wich might be achieved in the atmosphere with
superconducting circuits, in a few decades. Other studies are
briefly mentioned, regarding both atmospheric and space
propulsion, such as particle beams, antigravity, reliance on
planetary and stellar impulsion.

The failure of land vehicle engines may be explained by
microwave radiations. In fact, high power hyperfrequency
generators are under study in France and other countries. One
application is micro wave weapons. Particle beams, for instance
proton beams, which ionize the air and become therefore visible,
might explain the observation of truncated luminous beams. Micro
waves might explain body paralysis.

In the same chapter are next studied "global hypotheses". Hoaxes
are rare and easily detected. Some non-scientific are put aside,
such as conspiration and manipulation by very secret, powerful
groups, parapsychic phenomena, collective hallucinations. The
hypothesis of secret weapons is also regarded as very
improbable, the same as "intoxication" at the time of the cold
war, or just natural phenomena.

We are then left with various extraterestrial hypotheses. One
version has been developed in France by astronomers Jean-Claude
Ribes and Guy Monnet, based on the concept of "space islands" of
American physicist O'Neill, and it is compatible with present
day physics.

The organization of UFO research in the United States,
Great Britain and Russia, is surveyed rapidly.

In the United States, the media and the polls show a marked
interest and concern of the public, but the official position,
especially of the Air Force, is still one of denial, more
precisely that there is no threat to national security.
Actually, declassified documents, released under FOIA, show
another story, one of surveillance of nuclear installations by
UFOs, and the continued study of UFOs by the military and
intelligence agencies.

The report stresses the importance, in the United States, of
private, independant associations. It mentions the "Briefing
Document. Best available evidence" sent in 1995 to a thousand
personalities worldwide, and the Sturrock workshop in 1997, both
sponsored by Laurance Rockefeller. The "Briefing Document" has
obviously been welcomed by the authors of the COMETA report. The
committee also notes the public emergence of alleged insiders
such as Colonel Philip Corso, and considers that his testimony
may be partly significant as to the real situation in that
country, in spite of many critics.

The report describes briefly the situation in Great Britain,
with a special mention for Nick Pope, and poses the question of
the possible existence of secret studies pursued jointly with
American services. It mentions as well research in Russia, and
the release of some information, notably by the KGB in 1991.


Part III: UFOs and Defence

The third part, "UFOs and Defence" ("Les OVNI et la dfense"),
states that, if it is true that no hostile action has been
proved yet, at least some actions of "intimidation" have been
recorded in France (case of of the Mirage IV for instance).
Since the extraterrestrial origin of UFOs cannot be ruled out,
it is therefore necessary to study the consequences of that
hypothesis at the strategic level, but also political, religious
and media/public information levels.

The first chapter ofPart III is devoted to prospective
strategies ("Prospectives stratgiques") and it begins with
fundamental questions: "What if extraterrestrials? What
intentions and what strategy can we deduce from their behavior
?"

Such questions open a more controversial part of the report.
Possible motivations of extraterrestrial visitors are explored
here, such as protection of planet Earth against the dangers of
nuclear war, suggested for instance by repeated flying over
nuclear missile sites.

The committee then ponders the possible repercussion on the
behavior, official or not, of different states, and focuses on
the possibility of secret, privileged contacts which might be
"attributed to the United States". The attitude of the U.S. is
seen as "most strange" since the 1947 wave and the Roswell
event. Since that time, a policy of increasing secrecy seems to
have been applied, which might be explained by the protection at
all cost of military technological superiority to be acquired
from the study of UFOs.

Next, the report tackles the question: "What measures must we
take now?" At the least, whatever the nature of UFOs, they
impose "critical vigilance", in particular regarding the risk
of "destabilizing manipulations". A kind of "cosmic vigilance"
should be applied by the elites, nationally and internationally,
in order to prevent any shocking surprise, erroneous
interpretation and hostile manipulation.

Nationally, COMETA urges the strenghening of SEPRA, and
recommends the creation of a cell at the highest level of
government, entrusted with the development of hypotheses,
strategy, and preparation of cooperation agreements with
European and other foreign countries. A further step would be
that European states and the European Union undertake diplomatic
action toward the Unites States within the framework of
political and strategic alliances.

A key question of the report is "What situations must we be
prepared for?". It mentions such situations as: extraterrestrial
move for official contact; discovery of a UFO/alien base on the
territory or in Europe; invasion (deemed improbable) and
localised or massive attack; manipulation or deliberate
disinformation aiming at destabilizing other states.

COMETA devotes special attention to "aeronautical implications",
with detailed recommendations aimed at various personnels, such
as air staffs, controllers, weathermen and engineers. It also
makes recommendations at the scientific and technical levels,
aimed at developping research, with potential benefits for
defence and industry.

The report further explores the political and religious
implications of UFOs, using as a model the perspective of our
own exploration of space: how would we do it, how would we
handle contacts with less advanced civilizations?

Such an approach is not new to the well informed readers of the
abundant ufological literature, but it has a special value here,
being treated seriously at such a level. The media/publicity
implications are not forgotten, with the problems of
disinformation, fear of ridicule, and manipulation by certain
groups.

In its conclusion, COMETA claims that the physical reality of
UFOs, under control of intelligent beings, is "quasi certain".
Only one hypothesis takes into account the available data: the
hypothesis of extraterrestrial visitors. This hypothesis is of
course unproved, but has far-reaching consequences. The goals of
these alleged visitors remain unknown but must be the subject of
speculations and prospective scenarios.

In its final recommendations, it stresses again the need to:

1) inform all decision-makers and persons in position of
responsibility;

2) reinforce means of investigation and study at SEPRA;

3) have UFO detection taken into account by agencies engaged
in of space surveillance;

4) create a strategic cell at the highest state level;

5) undertake diplomatic action toward the Unites States
for cooperation on this "capital question";

6) study measures which might be necessary in case of
emergencies.


Finally, this document is accompanied by seven
interesting annexes which are worth reading even
by seasoned ufologists:

-1 Radar detection in France

-2 Observations by astronomers

-3 Life in the Universe

-4 Colonization of space

-5 The Roswell case - The disinformation (an interesting text
which will be criticized by some readers, and welcomed by
others, including myself)

-6 Antiquity of the UFO phenomenon. Elements for a chronology.

-7 Reflexionn on various psychological, sociological and
political aspects ot the UFO phenomenon.

The importance of this report should not be missed by all
informed ufologists around the world, considering not only its
contents but the personality of its authors, and in spite of
critics which may be addressed to it.

In fact, some sharp critics have been made soon after the
release of the report, on the Internet, and in the French press
with an article by sociologist Pierre Lagrange curiously
denouncing an operation of disinformation by way of ridiculing
the subject ("Libration of July 21, 1999). Let's hope that the
present summary will help clarify the debate.


Gildas Bourdais








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                        Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: Pat McCartney <ElPatricio@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:23:25 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:37:27 -0400
Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice


 >Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 03:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Royce Myers >ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto >updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Thanks for the incredible insight ;-}  I just find it peculiar
 >that a guy rakes in $10G to file an appeal in federal court and
 >is then off on a vacation. While everyone has a right to earn a
 >living, how much does it cost to file a federal appeal?

I'm not sure if you got up on the wrong side of the bed, Royce,
or simply have a grossly distorted view of how nonprofit groups
work. But your criticism of Peter Gersten is misguided and the
epitome of a cheap shot.

Peter just finished a lawsuit trying to pry loose information
out of a government that is manifestly unwilling to release it.
When that was unsuccessful, Peter filed an appeal, an action
that takes some effort, even if the filing is an empty shell
with the details to be filled in later.

And the fund-raiser you seem to be in a froth about would also
take work -- for organization, tickets, marketing and so forth.
Having done a little fund-raising, I have to laugh at your
characterization of Peter "raking in" $10,000. It ain't that
easy, babe.

I have not worked for a nonprofit organization before, but as
they say, some of my best friends have. The work itself is not
so different from duties with for-profit corporations, with the
exception that those working for nonprofits often have a passion
for the agency's cause that transcends such considerations as
salary and benefits.

While some large nonprofit agencies have high-paid executives
(Larry, I believe United Way was paying around $400,000 for its
executive director), I sincerely doubt that Peter is rolling in
dough. I for one am appreciative of his efforts and am grateful
he had a chance to take some time off over the Memorial Day
weekend to enjoy his family and friends.

I hope you also had a chance to spend time with your family and
friends, Royce.

Pat McCartney







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                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:42:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:55:02 -0500
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:32:10 +1200
 >>From: William Sawers <syntax@i4free.co.nz>
 >>Subject: Corso & COMETA
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Does anyone think that The COMETA Report mentioning Col Philip
 >>Corso in a positive way significant or at least interesting?

 >In a word, No. Actually, it is significant in a way -- just not
 >the right way!

 >>I always felt Col Corso was genuine. Time may have jumbled a few
 >>details, maybe even a lot of details, but the core of "The Day
 >>After Roswell" IMO is sound.

 >>Anyone?


 >There was a genuine Col. Corso, if that's what you mean.

 >Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily mean that even 10% of
 >his book is true, never mind its "core."

 >What is its core, BTW, that virtually all the major American
 >technological breakthroughs since 1947, were seeded out to
 >industry by Corso himself, from UFO debris he found languishing
 >in a file cabinet in the Pentagon? That he almost singlehandedly
 >won a spurious Cold War and saved humanity from alien invasion?

 >It helps sometimes, you know, to take a step back from some of
 >this stuff. And that would apparently include a few high-ranking
 >French military officers.

 >Dennis


Dear EBK, Mr. Menace, Tail Twisters of the Updates Forums...

It's pretty easy to refute, criticize and or/defame, simply
because the expressions of one or more individuals offend your
pair of dimes. Thusfar, all we've heard (read) from you on this
and other subjects are critique. Which is fine. However Dennis,
your critiques are presented as facts, facts which denigrate the
positions of others.

Might this denigration be some sort of psychological complex?
Perhaps a superiority complex? Hmmm. Maybe an inferiority one?

Whatever it is, however true your opines may be, they insult the
intelligence of others who have published their opinions,
sometimes, even when they are not published as facts, merely
opinions. I find this terribly Freudian of you. In addition, I
await with baited breath, your opinions on my truth, when I
paint my masterpiece.

But first, allow me to purchase a stainless steel face mask.
Which unfortunately, I've only been able to purchase in white.

Jim Mortellaro
Bashar of Zoilus (or is it Zoili?)
Could be Momus, Faultfinder.
I am also the enemy of the antichrist and the antimary
(Mr. and President Clinton) so you are in great company,
Bubba








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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:34:53 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:01:54 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:12:49 -0500
 >Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 18:35:17 -0400
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

 >>Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:49:11 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Camouflaging the thread was an example of but one thing Trent
 >>would have had to do to pull off the hoax. The main point is
 >>this. If he was deliberately trying to pull off a hoax to the
 >>point of carefully planning how to take the pictures plus
 >>plotting the perfect cover story along with Mrs. Trent, after
 >>all that, why leave clear evidence behind of how the hoax could
 >>have been done? A simple reframing of the pictures would have
 >>eliminated the tell-tale overhead wires. It's like pulling off
 >>the otherwise perfect murder with the perfect alibi but not
 >>disposing of the murder weapon.

 >David,

 >Yes, that was my point, which you so conveniently overlooked.

 >It's you who's trying to interpret the Trents' inner psyche and
 >motives, not me.

Actually I've tried to steer clear of this as much as possible
and am sorry I let myself get drawn into it.  I've previously
written that even without subjectively evaluating the Trent's
character or motivations, one can objectively determine that
various photo details (even very subtle ones) are consistent
with the Trents' story of what happened.

 >You asked why didn't they leave out the power lines, I asked why
 >they didn't leave out _every_ frame of reference, following your
 >line of reasoning, which you assert the Trents would have
 >adopted and followed.

You didn't you ask "why didn't they leave out every frame of
reference?"  You asserted:

 >Eliminate the power lines and other points of reference, and
 >what have you got? A saucer shape against a sky background, with
 >no points of reference whatsoever.

Don't blame me if your point wasn't clear.

As to your _present_ question as  to why not leave out all
details, the obvious answer is that it wouldn't be necessary.
Only the overhead power lines in the photos directly suggest how
a hoax might have been carried out. What else in the photos
might suggest this?  The house or garage?  The power pole in the
distance?  The distant mountains or buildings?

 >You have no way of knowing that, that is,
 >you have no way of knowing what the Trents might have done, or
 >what they might not have done, based on the presence of power
 >lines in the pictures. It's an unsupportable argument.

Let's go at it another way using a  TRUE/FALSE quiz.  Using
elementary logic, which one of the following statements is
FALSE, if one was even a modestly clever country bumpkin and was
trying to pull off the perfect hoax?

1.  If Mrs. Trent was standing on the roof of the house and
tossing a garbage can lid, then it would be wise to frame the
photos so that Mrs. Trent was out of the picture.

2.  If Mrs. Trent was holding up a model with a long pole, then
it would be wise to frame the photos so that Mrs. Trent and the
pole were out of the picture.

3.  If the model was suspended by a thread with helium balloons,
then it would be wise to frame the photos so that the balloons
were out of the picture.

4.  If the model was suspended by a thread from a nearby
overhead power line, then it would be wise to frame the photos
to show the power line and make the picture more interesting.

 ><snip>

 >>Pot -- kettle -- black. If you want a classic example of really,
 >>_really_ bad reasoning, go check out your own above, regarding
 >>the removing all points of reference from the photos.

 >>David Rudiak

 >Ditto to you, dude. You said that they would have removed one
 >frame of reference (the power lines). I simply extrapolated your
 >argument. Well, if they're going to remove one frame of
 >reference, why not remove all frames of reference?

Uhhh, because only the power line "frame of reference" indicates
how a hoax might have been done?

 >BTW, are you aware of the Wilhamette (sp?) Pass, Oregon, photo
 >hoax?

Yes, and Dennis Stacy wouldn't be trying to make another of his
sweeping generalizations here?  Of course not!

Now let's further test your powers of elementary logic with a
multiple choice question.  No fair peeking at the answer at the
end.

Which of the following choices is both true and the best answer?

A.  If photoanalysis of the Trent photos had shown a thread
directly above the unknown object, this would have proven a hoax
by most reasonable standards of evidence.

B.  Since Mrs. Trent was a "repeater" and wasn't previously
believed, this demonstrates that the Trent photos were hoaxed to
substantiate her previous UFO sightings.

C.  Since Mr. Trent did not immediately develop the photos of
his astounding "flying saucer" and treated the negatives in a
cavalier manner afterwards, this proves that nothing astounding
was photographed at all and the photos were hoaxed.

D.  If the newspapers carried different versions of what the
Trents said happened, this proves the photos were hoaxed.

E.  Since the Trent photos are of an object with an unusual
profile, including an offset "antenna-like" projection on top
that no symmetrically-minded alien civilization would possibly
use, the Trent photos must be hoaxed.

F.  Aliens can't find us or get here, therefore flying saucers
don't exist and all flying saucer photos must be hoaxed.

G. If there are cases of UFO photos that weren't demonstrably
fake and were taken by people of seemingly good character, but
were eventually shown to be hoaxes, then other UFO photos which
also have survived scrutiny and were taken by seemingly honest
people are undoubtably hoaxed as well.

H.  All of the above are true.

Answer:  Only A is true.  The hard-core debunking answer would
have been H.  But all other answers either have a premise that
isn't necessarily true, or a conclusion that does not
necessarily follow from the premise.

David Rudiak









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   May > May 29

                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: James Bond Johnson <JBONJO@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:20:30 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:10:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


Stan,

Do you have any idea where I can contact Jamie Shandera these
days? The last phone I had for him was on the East coast shortly
after we appeared together at the Orange County MUFON in 1998.

When you and I are together I can share with you a lot more
about Lt. Col. Corso.

Bond








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                       Re: What's New At Project 1947

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:50:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 11:01:46 -0400
Subject: Re: What's New At Project 1947


 >Re: What's New At Project 1947
 >From: Asgeir W. Skavhaug <asge-s@online.no>
 >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:50:02 +0200
 >Subject: Re: What's New At Project 1947


 >>From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
 >>Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:56:12 -0400
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca
 >>Fwd Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:58:34 -0400

Greetings Asgeir and List

Sorry, did see this before, was at my son's graduation. You are
correct!  Please see below.

 >>Subject: What's New At Project 1947


 >>http://www.project1947.com/new.htm

 >>"New Top Secret Document Discovered," a slightly
 >>updated version of the April 2000 MUFON Journal
 >>article on the formerly Top Secret Telecon Transcript TT
 >>#1524 from USAF, Europe, Intelligence to USAF HQ
 >>Director of Intelligence on UFO activity in Europe and the
 >>recovery operation of a "flying saucer" seen by a high
 >>ranking Swedish officials in 1948.

 ><snip>

 >>Best regards,
 >>Jan Aldrich
 >>Project 1947
 >>http://www.project1947.com/


 >Jan & List:

 >Referring to the following URL:

 >http://www.project1947.com/fig/jtt.htm

 >and with the following exerpt:

 >"USAFE saved the block-buster for the last part of the
 >message.  An object had crashed into a Swedish lake. "A
 >technical expert near his home on the edge of the lake" was the
 >witness.  USAFE informed DI that the Swedes had recovery
 >operations for the crashed object under way. Anyone familiar
 >with the 1946 "Ghost Rockets" knows that a number of the these
 >earlier reports claimed objects had allegedly come down in
 >Scandinavian lakes. A 1946 Secret letter from the Commander US,
 >Naval Forces, Europe, commented on an earlier 1946 recovery
 >attempt from a lake in Norway.

 >The Navy was very much interested in what might be found.
 >While they were willing to render assistance, there were two
 >problems:  the lack of Naval equipment and experts for that
 >type of work in Europe at the time, and the lack of an
 >invitation to assist from the Norwegian government. The
 >Commander, US Naval Force Europe, felt that the matter required
 >authorization from US political authority to proceed.  [5].
 >Nothing further officially is known about the Norwegian lake
 >crash, but the "technical expert" in the USAFE Swedish lake
 >report was identified in another Top Secret DI 1948 document
 >now at Maxwell AFB  [6]."


 >The incident in _Norway_ mentioned above, _might_ have been
 >the incident reported here (but, many other similar incidents
 >/sightings are also found here):

 >http://www.ufo.no/english/articles/pre47-1.html

 >with the following exerpt:

 >"18 Jul 1946; Mjsa;

 >Between 12:00 and 12:30, several witnesses observed two
 >V1-like objects coming in low, about 50 m height, from west.
 >The witnesses first heard a strong whistling sound, not exactly
 >like an aircraft. The objects were flying so low as to cause
 >the trees to sway. They both impacted in Lake Mjsa, about 2 km
 >from the western shore and about 7 km from Minnesund. They
 >were sigarshaped, about 2,5 m long, with about 1 m long wings
 >placed about 1 m behind the nose. The front and back parts
 >were shining like metal, but the middle section including the
 >wings were dark. The wings seemed to flap a little. No fire or
 >light were seen. The objects were close together, one in front
 >of the other, and their trajectory were like when you throw a
 >stone. When they impacted in Lake Mjsa, the water splashed
 >several meters in the air. No explosion was heard. The sky was
 >clear, and the water calm. Some of the witnesses were Sigvart
 >Skaug, his wife, son, and daughter, and Nils & Gustav
 >Tosterud.

 >(Newspapers, etc., referring the incident:)
 >AFTENPOSTEN, 19 Jul 1946, 1; 20 Jul 1946, 1+5+14.
 >BUSKERUDS BLAD, 20 Jul 1946, 1.
 >DRAMMENS TIDENDE, 20 Jul 1946, 1.
 >FREMTIDEN, 20 Jul 1946, 1.
 >GTEBORGS-TIDNINGEN, Jul 1946.
 >HD, 20 Jul 1946.
 >SVD, 20 Jul 1946.
 >MT, 21 Jul 1946, 18.
 >AFTENPOSTEN, 22 Jul 1946, 1.
 >ARBEIDERBLADET, 22 Jul 1946, 1.
 >FREMTIDEN, 22 Jul 1946, 1.
 >MORGENBLADET, 22 Jul 1946, 1.
 >FLYING SAUCER REVIEW, v 15/n 2 - Mar/Apr 1969, 18.
 >OFFICIAL UFO, Oct 1976, 61.
 >Gross: THE MYSTERY OF THE GHOST ROCKETS,
 >1982, 14-5.
 >AFU NEWSLETTER, 27 - Jan/Dec 1984, 4. "


 >Lake Mjsa is the largest lake in Norway, located in the county
 >of Hedemark, with the cities of Hamar, Lillehammer (1994
 >Winter Olympic Games) and Gjvik at its shorelines.


The letter cited on the Project 1947 does indeed refer to the Lake Mjosa
incident cited above.

http://www.project1947.com/fig/46alusna.htm

The letter from US Naval Force, Europe, dated 24 August 1946
also referred to other US official "ghost rocket" documents not
yet recovered.  We hope to find these and more....just receently
two Air Force reports from this era on the subject of "mystery
missiles"  surfaced, not from Air Force files, but from Army
files.

There is also a British intelligence document in September 1946
that also refers to the Lake Mjosa incident....When life stops
interferring with my 1946 article, these documents will be
discussed in some detail on the Project 1947 website.

Best regards,

Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331, USA
(860) 546-9135









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                        Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 01:10:04 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:30:15 -0400
Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice


 >Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 03:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Royce Myers <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:45:24 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>>Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:41:55 -0700
 >>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>>Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 ><snip>

 >>>Royce,

 >>>Being a "non-profit organization" does not mean that he is
 >>>working for free, or that he can't take time off.

 >Thanks for the incredible insight ;-} I just find it peculiar
 >that a guy rakes in $10G to file an appeal in federal court and
 >is then off on a vacation. While everyone has a right to earn a
 >living, how much does it cost to file a federal appeal?

In the early 90s, I was privy to an appeal that was filed in
state court. Cost of creating the appeal and filing it was 7
grand. If you are involved in a legal matter and you choose to
do a deposition the attorneys tell you to plan for about 10G per
depo in "your side" cost. So 10G is not out of line attorneys
fees and costs.

 ><snip>

 >>>If Peter was able to take a week or two off, goody for him.

 >Sure, I'd like to work from home and have other people pay for
 >my vacations, too! Makes for a nice lifestyle until you start to

So would I, but here is the critical thought. We should not
suggest that other people paid for his vacation because the
simple truth is we don't know, and can only speculate. I would
imagine it would be pretty easy to get a copy of the CAUS tax
return from the IRS if they are a non profit enity. Some years
back somebody showed me a copy of MUFONs and the directors
salary was in the neighborhood of 60K per year.

 >run out of cash. Don't get me wrong, ol' Pete may be putting in
 >his time, but to raise $10G and then hit the road on a vacation
 >right afterwards, to me, doesn't look good. Ol' Pete made it

Truthfully looks should not matter, but unfortunatly in this day
and age looks mean everything and reality and truth mean
nothing. Kind of like when a UFO witness likens what he/she saw
to say "Saturn" or another planet. All the skeptics instantly
seize on and only hear "Saturn" so therefor the witness saw a
bright planet. Never mind the rest of the story.

Oh well.

Cheers,

Robert








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                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:11:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:34:19 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


 >Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:47:05 -0400
 >From: Sue Kovios <bradford@globalserve.net>
 >Subject: Re: The COMETA Report
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 05:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Michel Algrin <AlgrinM@aol.com>
 >>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>[Non-Subscriber Post]

 >>>Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 19:47:26 -0300
 >>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>>Subject: The COMETA Report
 >>>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >><snip>

 >>>3. For those who would like a copy of the 90 page English
 >>>Translation of the COMETA Report, I am making copies available,
 >>>as noted on Coast to Coast a few weeks ago, for only $10.
 >>>including first class postage from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME
 >>>04730-0958. Or call toll free 877-457-0232 to use VISA or Master
 >>>Card..

 >>>Stan Friedman

 >>Mister the Director of list UFO UpDates - Toronto

 >>Dear Sir,

 >>I took note with great surprise of the message of Stan Friedman
 >>on your list (24 May 2000) in which he proposes to sell a
 >>translation in English of the 90 page 'COMETA Report: What Should
 >>We Prepare For?'.

 >>Stan Friedman did not aquire any authorization from us. I point
 >>out that COMETA Report is protected (page 4) by the Copyright
 >>and that all reproduction, in whole or in part, translation and
 >>adaptation rights are reserved for all countries.

 >>COMETA is going to publish the translation of this Report in
 >>English in the United States.

 >>The advertisement of Stan Friedman causes us damage.

 >>I will take legal action against him for counterfeit and
 >>plagiarism and also against all people who would buy its
 >>translation.

 >>I ask you to publish this message on your list.
 >
 >>Michel Algrin
 >>Attorney-At-Law
 >>Director of COMETA

 >As I see it this information is public information scientific
 >in nature and paid for by a group whose wages are from
 >the government which in turns is through the taxpayers.

 >And also as I see it, $10.00 covers postage and handling
 >and nothing more.

 >And, also as I see it, most of the information from what I
 >gather, at the ISSO website as summarized by Guildas Boudrais,
 >is already knowledge among the UFO community.

 >http://www.isso.org/inbox/cometa.htm

 >So what is COMETA copyrighting? The fact that they say 'Yes,
 >this stuff is real'.

 >And how can they copyright other people's reports, observations,
 >findings, analysis of evidence unless of course the scientists,
 >researchers, etc. have been paid in advance.

 >If General Norlain is an honourable gentleman in eyes of UNESCO
 >in the aspect of culture and peace, then should he not honour
 >their goals of awareness and global distribution of information
 >for all mankind by producing this educational information? As
 >UNESCO states on their website, the scientific community has an
 >obligation to mankind to keep the public informed of results
 >detrimental the to existence of mankind, and I don't think we're
 >just talking biosphere here.

 >Honour that COMETA.

 >Sue K

Sue-

The COMETA group is a private organization. It's members include
some who are paid by the Government (of France), but that would
not preclude COMETA from enforcing copyright restrictions on
their work. While most of the facts presented in the COMETA
report are indeed public knowledge, and nothing new to
researchers, the opinions and thoughts of the COMETA group are
not. This report was prepared issued at the whim of the COMETA
group and was not (to my knowledge) requested by any official
government entity. This should not be construed as an official
Government document or report.

What seems to be lost here is that anyone can purchase a copy of
this report in its original language and have it translated. I
believe it is still available at Arcturas Books, and that
version would include all the graphics that are referenced. As I
understand it, the sales of this report (which appeared as a
special report in a magazine) didn't sell that well in France,
so the additional sales would be appreciated.

The translations, which Stanton offered for sale, was privately
financed for the purpose of distributing it to the media and
certain Government officials. Certain researchers, such as
Stanton, were provided with copies when they requested them so
that they could help to spread the word about its importance.
However, they were not given authorization to distribute it
further. The Fund for UFO Research acted as the go-between in
getting this translation completed and has been tasked with
distributing the report as allowed by the negotiated agreement.

As pointed out earlier, the COMETA group has been very
protective of their report and IMO want to control its
distribution. There are apparently facets of the UFO community
that they would rather not become associated with for fear that
it might impact their credibility. To be honest, I can fully
understand that viewpoint.

This is the same frustration that many felt several years ago
when the Best Available Evidence was produced in limited numbers
for Media, government, and Business leaders. Many in ufology
felt slighted that it hadn't been released to the general
public, but that hadn't been its intent and it was a privately
financed effort with specific targets and goals. Now, nearly
five years later, the BAE is about to be released by Dell
Publications and the general public will finally get a chance to
see what the fuss was all about.

I suspect that the COMETA report will be released quicker than
that, since they've already expressed a goal in getting it out.
But the publication could take a while to put together, unless
they scale back their goals.

Steve









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                  Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 20:53:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:41:50 -0400
Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe


 >Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:34:53 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: McMinnville UFO Photos Soar The Globe
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >As to your _present_ question as  to why not leave out all
 >details, the obvious answer is that it wouldn't be necessary.
 >Only the overhead power lines in the photos directly suggest how
 >a hoax might have been carried out. What else in the photos
 >might suggest this?  The house or garage?  The power pole in the
 >distance?  The distant mountains or buildings?


David,

You really do have too much time on your hands to wax so prolix.

I guess a person, if so inclined, couldn't get on the roof of a
house or garage with a bamboo fishing pole? Remember those
suckers?

My point was and is a simple one.

You seem to be saying that if the Trents hoaxed the pictures,
they wouldn't have included the powerlines in same, therefore
the presence of powerlines in the pictures is evidence that the
Trents didn't hoax the pictures. This is mind-reading on your
part.

If I misread you, my apologies.

As for my take on the Trent photos, you can find it on pp. 54-55
of the following:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380802651/qid=959718670/sr=1-1/103-3
136292-5743861

And don't fret too much about that sales ranking. That's what
happens when you write a sensible book about UFOs.

Dennis Stacy











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                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:40:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:44:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

<snip>

 >Dear EBK, Mr. Menace, Tail Twisters of the Updates Forums...

 >It's pretty easy to refute, criticize and or/defame, simply
 >because the expressions of one or more individuals offend your
 >pair of dimes. Thusfar, all we've heard (read) from you on this
 >and other subjects are critique. Which is fine. However Dennis,
 >your critiques are presented as facts, facts which denigrate the
 >positions of others.


Jim,

I think you need to read Corso's book again, with an eye to who
_he_ defames therein. His body count is a lot higher than mine is.
I'm only defaming him. He defames almost everyone he served with,
save himself.

 >Might this denigration be some sort of psychological complex?
 >Perhaps a superiority complex? Hmmm. Maybe an inferiority one?

Sorry, wrong on all three accounts. Just an ability to recognize
hogwash when I read it. See Friedman's post to the same effect.

<snip>

 >But first, allow me to purchase a stainless steel face mask.
 >Which unfortunately, I've only been able to purchase in white.

 >Jim Mortellaro

Save a few bucks so you can buy a copy of my The Field Guide to
UFOs, co-authored with Patrick Huyghe, and published by Quill,
an imprint of HarperCollins, only about $10.40 from Amazon.

No UFOs were harmed in the production of same. Sorry about the
trees, though, who were more than defamed in the process. In
fact, they were chopped down and pulped! Thankfully, I didn't
have to watch.

Dennis Stacy








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                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:51:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:46:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:28:33 -0300
 >From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


<snip>

 >I consider the comments about Corso a weak point, rather than a
 >strong point, of the Report indicating the authors hadn't dug
 >very deeply into Corso...

 >Stan Friedman


At the risk of further offending Dr. Gripple, I can only concur
with Stan on this one.

Corso's book is a complete sham, probably perpetrated in the
main by his co-author. And that applies regardless of whether
Roswell is true or not.

Dennis Stacy







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                      MUFON LA Reports Boomerang Craft

From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:12:09 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:56:06 -0400
Subject: MUFON LA Reports Boomerang Craft


From: IamDorian@aol.com
Full-name: Iam Dorian
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:21:27 EDT
Subject: ****Fwd: MUFON LA reports boomerang craft--Military Test
              Craft? [UFO Report: Dorian'sCommentary]
To: undisclosed-recipients:;

The Following UFO Report interested me:

--------------------------------------------------

The following report was received by MUFON LA on May 17, 2000.
It seems that most of our reports in the last couple years have
been in the Covina/LaVerne, Ca. area.

On May 12, 2000 at approximately 22:17, a male witness and his
fiance were exiting their vehicle at her home in Covina, Ca. and
noticed something floating in the night sky. It was gray in
color and first appeared to be an owl or bird of prey with a
large wingspan hovering over her house. Upon closer inspection,
they both realized that it was not a bird and observed the
following:

It floated about 500-2000 feet in the air. Moved slightly faster
than a blimp, however, not as fast as a conventional aircraft.
Was very well camouflaged in the orange-gray night sky. Had a
wingspan of about 30-60 feet in the shape of a boomerang. Moved
in a North East direction. Had an airspeed of less than 50 miles
per hour. Had what appeared to be very tiny and faint orange
lights all over its under carriage. Did not change course or
speed. Had no engine sounds. No navigational lights common to
conventional aircraft.

The witnesses agreed that they had observed a UFO, but as to the
nature of its origin (military or alien) they could not say with
certainty, but that they had observed advanced technology.

It should be noted that the witnesses were looking in the sky
because there was some police helicopter activity about two
miles away. The object they saw appeared to have no concern of
the busy night sky and was headed in the opposite direction.

P.S. It should also be noted that the witness has a background
as a senior aircraft maintenance technician in the Air Force
reserves and is very familiar with conventional aircraft.

Upon further discussion, the witness added that he was unable to
receive cell phone messages for three days after the
incident..... even with two additional cell phone replacements!

All the best,

Bill Casey
Director of Investigations
MUFON LA


==========================================================

Although described as "Boomerang" like in shape, the descriptoin
of the craft as having Orange-Red lights underneath should be
familiar to those that have read the report of the two Giant
Triangles, that lifted out of Los Alamitos Naval Airstation
airspace on the 17th of Sept., 1994.

For those unfamiliar with the Southern California area, it
should be noted that this area of CA has played host to many
military aircraft developers. In fact, to the best of my
knowledge, sightings of the Giant Triangle type began in this
area of the Country. Anyone with basic math can add two and two.
Just look at the location of Area-51. The sheer number of
military bases and corresponding restricted flight areas in and
around Southern/Central, CA and Nevada, as well as the amount of
open underpopulated land, makes test flights over the
neighboring deserts a certainty.

In fact, should be find it a coincidence that the first EVER
recorded flying wing-like UFO was reported near Mt. Shasta in
1947? Top Secret and classified experimental aircraft were
tested over the deserts for years from Edwards Air Force Base,
Lockheed's facilities, Northrop's facilities, and other
manufacturer's test sites even earlier in last century (i.e.,
like Hughes Aircraft).

it should be noted that this craft, estimated to be traveling
roughly NE, was on a similar heading to the craft sighted
leaving Los Alamitos. It is sometimes difficult to estimate
heading of aircraft when the observer is ground based. Not to
mention there is always the ability for any aircraft to make
course corrections and changes in heading. Yet, if we allow room
for some slight errors in estimation, one of two possibilities
would be a heading, for the craft, of NNE. This is the proper
heading for Areas-51 and S4...the Nellis Test Range in Nevada.

The reader should be aware that the Nellis Air Force Test Range
runs roughly NW, through Central Nevada. Also, Boeing, a major
developer of "Top Secret" (or Ultra Top Secret) aircraft, has
two facilities and runways near Seattle; one site north of
Seattle (Everett), and one site south of Seattle (Renton).

If we assume for a minute that many�if not most�UFOs are
actually Ultra Top Secret experimental military aircraft, then
we might expect them to be tested. Those tests would be in areas
either controlled by one or another branch of the US military,
or over predominately unpopulated areas. If aircraft were being
tested in flights between these two areas between the known
Nevada Test Sites (Area 51/S4) and Boeing's "Black-ops"
facilities in Washington, we might expect sightings in airspaces
(over stretches of uninhabited desert flats or even stretches of
open water) located somewhere between the two locations.

Here is a list of the West Coast sightings of UFOs in America.
The majority were sightings made in Washington/Oregon/Nevada,
and along the Nevada California border...all during the famous
UFO year, 1947. This was the year of the Roswell "crash," as
well as the year of the first recorded UFO sightings in the US.

Although the sighting often referred to as the FIRST, was made
by a pilot, Kenneth Arnold (his description of the flight
characteristics being later popularized by the description
"flying saucer), there was one claim of an earlier sighting as
well. This sighting was made over Puget Sound. Also in
Washington State. This sighting was later termed a "hoax," yet
this reader is not convinced that it was. I've included a review
for the sake of those who may be interested.

----------------------------------------------------------------


(NOTE: Number in front of names are only for reference, to
simplify discussion. They are in chronological order, but do not
represent ALL the UFO sightings reported in 1947)

1)         On 21 June, 1947

THE MAURY ISLAND INCIDENT: A SYNOPSIS

On 21 June, 1947, three days before Kenneth Arnold reported his
observation of a formation of objects traveling like a saucer
skipped across the water, a significant event occurred.

        In Puget Sound harbor, between Tacoma and Seattle,
Washington, Harold A. Dahl, his teenage son Charles, two other
crew members and the family dog were patrolling for salvage logs
when they saw six huge doughnut-shaped objects in the sky. The
objects appeared to be about one hundred feet in diameter and of
a bright metallic appearance. Five of the objects were circling
a sixth, which looked as if it were in difficulty.

        Suddenly, there was an explosion, and the sixth vessel
discharged a quantity of metallic residue. Flakes of material
similar to aluminum and some additional material (which
resembled cooled lava) fell around them. Some fragments hit the
boat and caused damage, one fragment injured Dahl's son and
another killed the family dog.

        One of the circling discs approached the malfunctioning
disc and in some fashion "jump-started" it. All of the discs
then rose rapidly and
vanished.

----------------------------------------------------------------

[Unable to display image]
[Image-1]

Artist's interpretation of the 1947 Kenneth Arnold sighting.
Note that the artist has taken the liberty to embellish the
painting, making it more alien-looking. See the probable
aircraft, that Kenneth actually saw, the Nazi Horten IX Stealth
Bomber.

----------------------------------------------------------------

This sighting was followed by many more. I have listed those
that occurred in the Western states�WA, OR, CA, NV�below.


2)           June 24, 1947--Mt. Rainier, Wash. Kenneth Arnold
sighting. Term "Flying saucer" coined.

3)          June 28, 1947--Near Lake Mead, Nevada. USAF F-51
pilot reported a formation of 5-6 circular objects.

4)          July 4, 1947--Portland, Oregon. Police and many
others saw many UFOs in formations and singly beginning about
1:05 p.m.

5)         July 4, 1947--Near Boise, Idaho. United Airlines
pilot and crew, enroute to Portland, Ore., saw 9 disc-like UFOs.

6)         July 4, 1947--Seattle, Wash, Coast Guard yeoman took
first known photograph of UFO, a circular object which moved
across the wind. Photo shows round dot of light.

7)          July 4, 1947--Redmond, Oregon. Car full of people
saw four disc-shaped UFOs streak past Mt, Jefferson.

8)         July 6, 1947--Fairfield-Suisun AFB, Calif, Pilot
reported "oscillating'' UFO which shot across sky.

9)         July 8, 1947--Series of sightings over Muroc AFB and
Rogers Dry Lake, secret test base, California:

             a) Morning. Two spherical or disc-like UFOs joined
by a third object. Crew of technicians saw white-aluminum UFO
with distinct oval outline descending, moving against wind.

             b) Afternoon: Thin "metallic" UFO climbed, dove,
oscillated over field, also seen by test pilot in vicinity.

             c) F-51 pilot watched a flat object "of
light-reflecting nature" pass above his plane. No known aircraft
were in area.

10)      July 9, 1947--Near Boise, Idaho. Newspaper aviation
editor saw flat circular UFO  maneuver in front of clouds.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Notice that the sightings over: 1) Puget Sound, 2) Mt. Rainier, 4) Portland,
6) Seattle and 7) Redmond, 9)


If one flew from the southern end to it's northern end, and kept
going over largely uninhabited desert on the same heading, one
would pass next to or over Mt. Shasta.


========== Ongoing Military "Top Secret" Testing? ==========

Below I've pasted some of the discussion of the Kenneth Arnold
sighting, which I think speaks for itself. Not ALL UFO sightings
are extraterrestrial.

This being said, you'll not that most of the other sightings I
listed refer to Discs. A good investigator must admit that, upon
hearing the expression "flying saucer," many people would have
imagined a disc-like craft. Hence, although we cannot discount
disc sightings during the months of June-July, 1947, as
manifestations of vivid imaginations (test pilots and other
pilots are usually the best and most informed observers of
aerial phenomena), we do need to put such sightings in
perspective.

It is interesting that so many of these flights appear to be
along a line that could be imagined as a rather desolate
corridor that stretches from the Boeing aircraft facilities in
the Seattle area, through lower mountain passes, and directly to
the Secret Test bases in Nevada. Here is some food for though
(italics mine) .

Some of the other sightings occurred adjacent to other US
Military Test Sites/Air Fields.

These sightings both occurred on the southern side of this
hypothetical corridor:

3)        Lake Mead
9)        Muroc AFB and Rogers Dry Lake (secret test base, in
           CA)


And those in Fairfield and Biose Idaho lie near older and
established US Air Force Bases


[Unable to display image]
[Image-2]
Travis AFB and vicinity today.


Travis AFB

Quoting from the OFFICIAL AFB Information pages:

http://www.travis.af.mil/database/museum/hist1.jpg


"Travis AFB was activated on May 11, 1943, the field was named
(coincidentally) Fairfield-Siusun Army Air Base." Originally the
Air Field began as an isolated airstrip in the middle of a
wind-swept prarie (a good test site...isolated and surrounded by
relatively flat prarie in ncas of a crash?) and "The first
runway and temporary buildings were constructed by the
Army Corps of Engineers in 1942..."

This section bears closer investigation:

"...the base's potential as a major aerial port and supply
(aircraft?) transfer point for teh Pacific theatre led the Army
Corps to assign it to the newly-designated Air Transport
Command. The base officially opened June 1, 1943, with the
primary mission of ferrying tactical aircraft from California
across the Pacific to the War Zone." I suggest it later
functioned in ferrying captured UFO discs, perhaps the German
variety said to have ben developed in Antarctica at the very
close of the War II, through California
to...Nevada??? Idaho???

------------------------------------------------------

Mountain Home AFB

In the general vicinity of Boise Idaho, and to the South, lies
the Mountain Home AFB near. Like Travis AFB, this base too was
developed during WWII. It's function seems to have been that of
training pilots in NEW aircraft.

 From the AFB's official Web page we read:

http://www.mountainhome.af.mil/

"...Mountain Home airmen began training crews for the B-24
Liberator.  The first group to do so was the 470th Bombardment
Group (Heavy), which trained at Mountain Home from May 1, 1943,
until January 1944, when the unit moved to Nevada...The base
also received fighter aircraft to add realism to its training.
A few P-38 and P-63 pursuit planes arrived in January 1945 to
simulate attacks on B-24s.  In June 1945, Mountain Home also
briefly served as a training base for the new B-29
Superfortress, but the end of the war in August brought a swift
end to the new mission and, for a time, to the base at Mountain
Home.  The base was placed in inactive status in October 1945.

The base remained inactive until December 1948 when the newly
independent United States Air Force assigned first the 5th
Reconnaissance Group and then the 5th Strategic Reconnaissance
Wing and their RB-17s to Idaho and the newly renamed Mountain
Home Air Force Base."

So, during the period of the 1947 sighting, the base was
inactive...or was it? Today, even with our modern highways,
Mountain home AFB is 60 minutes driving time from Boise. In
fact, back in 1947, this was probably considerd a remote
location. What better place to land/test a top secret aircraft?

[Unable to display image] [Image-3] The Mountain Home AFB and
vicinity today. The river gorge to the south is one of the
deepest in the nation.

..and the Boise Sighting...near Mountain Home AFB

Both also lie on either side of the above-mentioned hypothetical
corridor.

================================================================


A CASE FOR MANY UFO SIGHITNGS BEING ADVANCED MILITARY CRAFT

I think that the following is an important little expos, as it
make the point that many UFO sightings, are probably OUR
military tests.

The question arises though, what about all the disc sightings?

I am still a believer that, along with the Nazi Horten craft we
may have grabbed some ACTUAL discs based on a revolutionary new
technology. There are many tellings of the story of a Top Secret
US Naval engagement which allegedly took place off the coast of
Antarctica (close the South African coast) that included an
aerial battle where our boys fought disc-like aircraft
apparently based on a radical new form of propulsion. As the
story goes, the first time in we got our butts kicked. Later we
alledged to have returned and captured some of the craft. Who
knows?

I guess this raises the question, could we have captured discs,
and then flown them to bases in Nevada (via other bases, and
possibly from early tests and back-engineering sessions at
Boeing?) in the summer of 1997?

The original pilot drawing does disagree with the drawing of the
Horten wing in one particular�in Kenneth's drawing there is a
distinct round cockpit or artifact in the center of the craft.
Although the first thing that comes to mind is that there MUST
be a cockpit, it's round shape is curious. Kenneth could NOT
have had an encounter with a completely round cockpit cover in
his experience, such a thing would not have been aerodynamic.
Flying fortresses did have such structures under and on top of
the craft, for gunners, but not as a fliers cockpit.

If this WAS a Gravity-field powered craft, one that was also
manned, a tower arrangement wound have been critical in order to
create a self-contained inertial field effect (Look at MOST disc
to se this, it is a prominent feature, and I propose�a basic
feature of REAL extraterrestrial craft). But such a tower is
particularly non-aerodynamic on this sort of craft. This is why
I often refer to these wings as "hybrid" technology. Yet, if
they were some sort of hybrid, then you might expect such a
skipping or wobbling motion. It is also possible that (if there
were employment of a G-field effect) that these rather primitive
craft employed such technology as a sort of inertial
dampener�not unlike that of the "levitation" technology recently
discovered in Finland.

If there actually was a G-field generator employed for lateral
thrust/lift, however, this configuration would almost certainly
have been a more traditional tripod arrangement. Yet, although
(as I've modeled it) there are many ways to "skin a cat," each
application of G-field technology has it's advantages and/or
limitations. It is a shame no one could have verified this
sighting from beneath the craft, perhaps this would have helped
cleared up the mystery.

Well, anyway, a less exciting, but simpler explanation is
explored below. I thought you all might enjoy this.

----------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.hiphopmusic-rapmusic.com/ufos-flyingsaucers/ufos.html

On June 24, 1947, Kenneth Arnold, a successful salesman and
experienced search and rescue pilot, took off in his small plane
from Chehalis, Washington en route to Yakima.

Close to Mineral, Washington and about 25 miles from Mount
Rainier, he noticed a formation of 9 unusual objects flying from
north to south at around 9,500 feet. He observed the objects
strange flight characteristics for 2 to 3 minutes and calculated
their speed at over 1,200 m.p.h. , a speed totally unheard of at
the time.

When Arnold landed at Yakima, Washington, he told some people of
the incredible new high speed aircraft he had witnessed. He flew
on to Pendleton, Oregon and found a number of reporters were
waiting, eager to learn about these new aircraft.

Asked to describe how they flew, Arnold explained that, "they
flew like a saucer would if you skipped it across the water".

A reporter named Bill Begrette coined the phrase "flying saucer"
and people have been claiming to see "flying saucers" ever
since!

But curiously, Kenneth Arnold did not actually describe a saucer
shaped craft and "flying saucers" are by no means the only
phenomenon consistently described in reports.

This is what Kenneth Arnold sketched.

[Unable to display image]
[Image-4]
These are two images of the Nazi Horton IX Stealth Bomber.

[Unable to display image]

[Image-4]

[Unable to display image]
[Image-6]


----------------------------------------------------------------

[Unable to display image]

[Image-7]

http://www.phoenix-model.com/images/PM_Models/PMM210.jpg


[Unable to display image] [Image-8]

http://www.phoenix-model.com/images/PM_Models/PMM220.jpg

----------------------------------------------------------------

At the end of World War II, U.S. military and  scientific
Instrumentalities literally stripped Nazi Germany of its
scientists and and amazingly super-advanced Science. That is to
say, however, that they only were able to secretly salvage what
the Russians had not already taken.

In such matters, Knowledge is Power, right?

Secret Knowledge is more Powerful.

It would  appear that what Kenneth Arnold saw was a flight of
captured Nazi Horto9n IX bombers being flown in the vicinity of
Mount Ranier, for whatever reason.

Investigation revealed to this writer that the Horton HO IX was
a highly advanced (for the time) flying wing type of craft,
which actually had Stealth, radar-invisibilty, some 50 years
ahead of its time.

This craft was known to be unstable, however, and documentably
flew with a distinct skipping motion.

Conclusion?  That the United States has been in possession of a
supersonic stealth airplane for more than 50 years, and,
further, that it has been a closely guarded secret, all that
time, and still is.

Why?  Obviously, at the height of the Cold War, these craft were
being used for over flights of Russia and other communist
countries. Given their stealth invisibility on radar, great
speed and secrecy, they were one of the most incredibly potent
weapons in the arsenal of the free world.

Therefore, it is obvious that the United States allowed the myth
of  flying saucers and UFOs to grow, and may even have fostered
same, in the name of national security.

The fact that this policy still seems to be in effect speaks for
itself.  It is rumored that the United States typically is in a
state of scientific advancement some 15 to 20 years ahead of
what is generally available to the rest of the world (Earth).

No one knows what the current state of United States military
and scientific advancement may be.

================================================================

Interesting...hmmm? Many of you already know this, but many do
not. This is a little history and education for those who may be
less informed.



Dorian

  Boomerang Craft-History.pdf







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                        Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:58:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 03:01:19 -0400
Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice


 >Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:23:25 -0400 (EDT)
 >From: Pat McCartney <ElPatricio@aol.com>
 >Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >To: updates@sympatico.ca

 >>Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 03:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Royce Myers >ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >>Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto >updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Thanks for the incredible insight ;-}  I just find it peculiar
 >>that a guy rakes in $10G to file an appeal in federal court and
 >>is then off on a vacation. While everyone has a right to earn a
 >>living, how much does it cost to file a federal appeal?

 >I'm not sure if you got up on the wrong side of the bed, Royce,
 >or simply have a grossly distorted view of how nonprofit groups
 >work. But your criticism of Peter Gersten is misguided and the
 >epitome of a cheap shot.

 >Peter just finished a lawsuit trying to pry loose information
 >out of a government that is manifestly unwilling to release it.
 >When that was unsuccessful, Peter filed an appeal, an action
 >that takes some effort, even if the filing is an empty shell
 >with the details to be filled in later.

 >And the fund-raiser you seem to be in a froth about would also
 >take work -- for organization, tickets, marketing and so forth.
 >Having done a little fund-raising, I have to laugh at your
 >characterization of Peter "raking in" $10,000. It ain't that
 >easy, babe.

 >I have not worked for a nonprofit organization before, but as
 >they say, some of my best friends have. The work itself is not
 >so different from duties with for-profit corporations, with the
 >exception that those working for nonprofits often have a passion
 >for the agency's cause that transcends such considerations as
 >salary and benefits.

 >While some large nonprofit agencies have high-paid executives
 >(Larry, I believe United Way was paying around $400,000 for its
 >executive director), I sincerely doubt that Peter is rolling in
 >dough. I for one am appreciative of his efforts and am grateful
 >he had a chance to take some time off over the Memorial Day
 >weekend to enjoy his family and friends.

 >I hope you also had a chance to spend time with your family and
 >friends, Royce.

Pat,

I'm hardly in a 'froth' about this. That's the problem with
e-mail, too many people make the wrong interpretations about the
text. If you'll notice I put a little smiley face at the end of
the sentence and, gee whiz, the smiley face thing was suppose to
be winking. Oh no, I must have gotten up on the wrong side of
the bed again... By the way, my name is Royce, not babe. I live
in Oregon, not Hollywood.

I simply made an observation based on my past experience with
ol' Pete. Guys that tell you how every day is a vacation for
them and then wind up begging for money just don't click too
well with me. Of course, you not knowing the extent of my
personal experience with ol' Pete may hamper you from completely
undertanding my past and current critiques of him and many other
so-called UFO proponents. I can't hold you accountable for what
you aren't aware of.

As for your comment about a 'cheap shot', I call them like I see
them. A guy starts raising cash to file an appeal, gets the
money and then takes off on vacation. Everyone deserves a break,
but that was just a little too much.

I've invested at least over $8G of my own money (not to mention
my time) into UFOs. This doesn't count the time I've actually
taken off work (without pay) or the time I've put into it. Maybe
I should hold a fund raiser, eh?

Anyone that gets in this field knows you won't make a living do
it unless you lecture like hell and write a few books or you
host a UFO conference that pulls in people.

Your assumption of my not understanding how non-profit
organizations work is just that, an _assumption_. I worked for
Shriner's and the March of Dimes doing fund raising.

If someone wants to earn a living then they need to get a job.
Pete's an attorney, why doesn't he go back to doing that? Oh
wait, he's retired...

Anyone who thinks a lawsuit is going to blow the lid off of what
the government knows or doesn't know about UFOs is smoking
crack. This should be evident by the huge brick wall ol' Pete
keeps running in to. Of course, the logic is to keep throwing
money at the problem... until you run out. Or you can keep
running face first into the same brick wall until your face is
bloody. Hey, then there could be a fund raiser for plastic
surgery...

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
eXpose: The Watchdog of UFOlogy - "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"
http://home.sprintmail.com/~rjm3 (eXpose)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ufowatchdog (UFO Hall o' Shame)









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   May > May 31

                            Re: The COMETA Report

From: Steven W. Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:49:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:39:15 -0400
Subject: Re: The COMETA Report


Previously I had written:

 >What seems to be lost here is that anyone can purchase a copy
 >of this report in its original language and have it translated.
 >I believe it is still available at Arcturas Books, and that
 >version would include all the graphics that are referenced. As
 >I understand it, the sales of this report (which appeared as a
 >special report in a magazine) didn't sell that well in France,
 >so the additional sales would be appreciated.

I have since learned that some of my comments here were not
entirely accurate and would like to make minor corrections to
the record:

Bob Girard reportedly purchased only 30 copies of the original
COMETA report (VSD Magazine), and he has apparently sold out.

Of 70,000 copies of the magazine that printed, 50,000 were sold
from store shelves during the two months they remained there.
The rest are being sold by VSD as requests come in, and they
have small pile remaining.

My comment that the COMETA report didn't sell well was obviously
incorrect, and I regret the error.

Steve







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                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:03:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:41:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:51:07 -0500
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:28:33 -0300
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>I consider the comments about Corso a weak point, rather than a
 >>strong point, of the Report indicating the authors hadn't dug
 >>very deeply into Corso..

 >Corso's book is a complete sham, probably perpetrated in the
 >main by his co-author. And that applies regardless of whether
 >Roswell is true or not.

Let me add my voice to the chorus here. Corso/Birnes's book is a
lie from beginning to end, and it is nothing to which any
serious ufologist ought to devote a second thought. It's the
most shameless hoax since that other notorious crashed-saucer
book, Frank Scully's Behind the Flying Saucers, in 1950. Sadly,
it will probably be with us as long as Scully's.

Jerry Clark











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                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Jan Aldrich <jan@cyberzone.net>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:31:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:46:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:51:07 -0500
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>
 >Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >>Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 19:28:33 -0300
 >>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@brunnet.net>
 >>Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA
 >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>


Dennis and List

The problem with Corso's book is that most people who believe
Corso have not _read_ it. They have skimmed through parts of it.
I doubt that the COMETA - whoever they are - took the time to
read the darn thing. They certainly did not do any kind of
independent research on this character or his claims. It does
not speak highly of their investigations.

I get the impression from corresponding with my French
colleagues that some of them think that a colonel is a high
official who has importance in the power or social structure of
the United States. First off, Corso was not a colonel, he
achieved the rank Lieutenant Colonel. Even so, there are
thousands of retired colonels and lieutenant colonels. Some
former military officers are important in both the country's
power and social structure, but most are not.

Corso, generally, does not come anywhere close to the
truth in book or his subsequent claims. See:

http://www.ufomind.com/ufo/updates/1998/jul/m20-021.shtml

Prejury, smerjury! At his age, were the authorities really going
to go after him in court?

CUFON has Corso's Officer Qualification Record

http://www.cufon.org

Corso's claims that he single handedly saved the world, hid
secret cameras on satellites, fostered the development of all
kinds of major technological breakthroughs, etc., etc., etc.,
ring hollow with just a little research, but "the will to
believe" his fantastic story overcomes all doubt with some.

Corso was an Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduate, a "90 day
wonder," yet he doesn't know the functioning of the World War II
basic infantry weapon, the M-1, Rifle? OCS candidates learned
this weapon better than they learned the shape their wives'
bodies. Why? Probably because Birnes wrote most of his book from
a few war stories that Corso told him. Birnes and Corso didn't
even take time to coordinate the story with his qualification
record.

Corso's recently released FBI files reveal he ran afoul of the
Bureau a number of times with various claims. Included in the
various FBI contacts is a Corso "joke." He and three of Senator
Thurmond's assistants supposed concocted a letter saying the FBI
was illegally tapping Senator Thurmond's telephone. The "joke
letter" found blowing around on the Capitol grounds was taken to
the FBI. When confronted on the letter by the FBI, Corso said it
was late at night and the the aids to Thurmond had nothing to
do. Great juvenile prank, but hardly worthy of the savior of the
planet!

Interesting is an isolated comment in the FBI files, "Corso and
General Trudeau have caused the FBI and other Federal agencies
to expend many hours of work and much manpower in running down
wild accusations."

A memo on Corso dated 11 Feb 1965 contains the following: "Corso
is well known to the Bureau. He fancies himself as an expert in
the intelligence field and has a history of wholesale
accusations against many people and many agencies of the Federal
Government of plotting to subvert the Nation. He has caused many
agencies, including the FBI, to expend much manpower, money and
effort to disprove some of his injudicious accusations."

<snip>

 >>I consider the comments about Corso a weak point, rather>>than a
 >strong point, of the Report indicating the authors hadn't dug
 >>very deeply into Corso...

 >>Stan Friedman


 >At the risk of further offending Dr. Gripple, I can only concur
 >with Stan on this one.

 >Corso's book is a complete sham, probably perpetrated in the
 >main by his co-author. And that applies regardless of whether
 >Roswell is true or not.

 >Dennis Stacy

I expect that the COMETA's report will have only one lasting
effect in the UFO field. It will bolster the Corso's wild and
unsupported story.

Jan Aldrich










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                        The Horten Wings And Reality

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@harborside.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 8:49 AM
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:27:56 -0400
Subject: The Horten Wings And Reality


Hello, all.

Somehow, I knew this would pop up again. So here we go:

1. The History of the Horten Bros. is well known, documented
recently in an recent article (June2000 issue) of "Flight
Journal". A very good article, by the way, it mainly
concentrates on the Horten lV, and its soaring ablity - and its
problems. This is why I don't buy 1200 mph Horten Pelic-er X's
or whatever, is the inherent instability in pitch (nose, down,
up). Ask where and why Edwards AFB got its name. Instabiltiy
makes for a real lousy Bomber, stealth or otherwise. Try that in
a close formation, and you are going to be spreading Aluminum
all over the mountian.


2. The available Technology in the 40's for high speed flight.

Ok, the fastest things in the late forties, were Rocket powered
X-craft of various types and nationalities, Re; the XS-1 is but
one example. Republic had a supersonic jet fighter, the XF91,
that had rockets for high speed flight, and the British also had
several different Rocket/Jet combos as experimental Fighters.

One problem: no range for a decent combat radius. The Germans
experience with the ME-163 Komet proved this, you get one pass,
if you are lucky, and you don't get shot down by the P-47 that
is behind you on landing, and you don't get blown up by the
Hydrazine fumes in the empty tank; make very very gentle
landings however the incentive of eight .50 caliber Brownings
may preclude that...

Now, how about Jets of the era; there were two common types.
Axial Flow and Centrifigal Flow, or Whittle type engines. The
J-34 and the J-33 are examples of each still in use today. The
J-34 axial flow jet is used (an example) on the P-2V Neptune
Airtankers for jet assist (or "Defuelers" as thet are not so
warmly called). The J-33 was used in the T-33, and the P-80  and
there are T-33s still around in service and in private hands.
Both the J-33 & J-34 are excellent examples of the overweight
and underpowered but reliable early jets.

German Jets; Junkers and BMW they weren't as reliable as the
less powerful Whittle type because of one problem; Mettallurgy.
The German Axial flow engines operated at a higher temperature
than the Whittle Type. There were a myriad of development
problems for the Junkers engines (the ones that may have pushed
the Ho-223 - but not to 1200 MPH) such as a nasty tendency to
ah, blow up at inopportune times. Even Speer admitted that the
develvopmental  problems could not be overcome.

British and American jets: The allies had more operational Jets
than the Germans! There were never more than" 50 or so 262's
operational at one time"- Adolf Galland, General of the
Luftwaffe. There was a P-80 squadron in Italy at the end of WW
ll. The Brtish Meteor was also, Operational, if you will in
squardron strength.

3. Saucer tech from the Nazis.
Yes the Germans had in the 1940's some real designs that coud be
called saucers - rotatinig wings et.al. but no way to have the
range or perfomance nessisary-no powerplants available to do so.
let alone antigravity, given known physics earthbound physics
anyway.

4. Whose Butt got kicked?
My late father in-law was attacked at Remagen Bridge by German
Jets. They missed the bridge. An autiobiography I read some time
back (I can't remember whose it was, one of Martin Cadin's
books, Col. Hub Zemke I believe) stated that the best time to
attack the Me 262 was at takeoff or landing. Because of the poor
accelletation of the 262. They shot them down.

Yes, when the war was over the spoils went to victors. The
Russians had a particularly nasty surprise for us in Korea;that
old Alley fighter the MiG-15 (which combined Britsh Engine and
German Airframe tech.).the Boeing B-47 was another superlative
design.

Sorry about the long post but some things can't be left unsaid,

GT McCoy










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                        Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice

From: Pat McCartney <ElPatricio@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:42:34 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:31:09 -0400
Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice


 >Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:58:12 -0700
 >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@earthlink.net>
 >Subject: Re: CAUS Files Appeal Notice
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >Anyone who thinks a lawsuit is going to blow the lid off of what
 >the government knows or doesn't know about UFOs is smoking
 >crack. This should be evident by the huge brick wall ol' Pete
 >keeps running in to. Of course, the logic is to keep throwing
 >money at the problem ... until you run out. Or you can keep
 >running face first into the same brick wall until your face is
 >bloody. Hey, then there could be a fund raiser for plastic
 >surgery...

At the risk of sounding like a crack addict, I fully support
each researcher's efforts to chip away at the brick wall that
defines UFO secrecy or compartmentalized information. In the
political area, which I believe UFOs have become a part of,
lawsuits sometimes can shed light on a subject when other
methods have failed. (Certainly the media treats lawsuits more
seriously than, say, the 50th anniversary of Roswell.)

If your point is that people like Pete Gersten should give up
their efforts because the "brick wall" amounts to the proverbial
immovable object, I would cite the example of the Berlin Wall.
Like many other people, I believed that the monolithic Soviet
Union was a permanent institution and the Berlin Wall was an
ugly monument to their power.

We had plenty of examples of those foolish East Europeans
stupidly butting their heads against that indomitable brick
wall. Should they not have given up as well?

As everyone now knows, the Soviet Union's rigid central economy
and topdown power structure ultimately led to its
disintegration. In the twinkling of an eye, the empire
collapsed, the paradigm shifted so to speak, and what seemed
permanent was revealed as a sham, sort of like Oz behind the
Iron Curtain.

Call me an optimist, but I believe that the combined efforts of
UFO researchers, the weight of numbers of UFO enthusiasts and
yes, the political efforts of people like Peter Gersten will in
the long run pull the curtain away from the U.S. secrecy
apparatus. Even when the odds seem insurmountable, fighting the
good fight is always the right thing to do.

And, you're right Royce, I didn't know your criticism of Peter
was based on personal animus. Now I know.

Pat McCartney
Former Hollywood glamour boy, babe.








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2000 >
   May > May 31

                             Re: Corso & COMETA

From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:05:14 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:35:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA


 >Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:40:18 -0500
 >From: Dennis Stacy <dstacy@texas.net>
 >Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA
 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <updates@sympatico.ca>

 >>Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
 >>From: Jim Mortellaro <Jsmortell@aol.com>
 >>Subject: Re: Corso & COMETA
 >>To: updates@sympatico.ca

 ><snip>

 >>Dear EBK, Mr. Menace, Tail Twisters of the Updates Forums...

 >>It's pretty easy to refute, criticize and or/defame, simply
 >>because the expressions of one or more individuals offend your
 >>pair of dimes. Thusfar, all we've heard (read) from you on this
 >>and other subjects are critique. Which is fine. However Dennis,
 >>your critiques are presented as facts, facts which denigrate the
 >>positions of others.

 >Jim,

 >I think you need to read Corso's book again, with an eye to who
 >_he_ defames therein. His body count is a lot higher than mine is.
 >I'm only defaming him. He defames almost everyone he served with,
 >save himself.

 >>Might this denigration be some sort of psychological complex?
 >>Perhaps a superiority complex? Hmmm. Maybe an inferiority one?

 >Sorry, wrong on all three accounts. Just an ability to recognize
 >hogwash when I read it. See Friedman's post to the same effect.

 ><snip>

 >>But first, allow me to purchase a stainless steel face mask.
 >>Which unfortunately, I've only been able to purchase in white.

 >>Jim Mortellaro

 >Save a few bucks so you can buy a copy of my The Field Guide to
 >UFOs, co-authored with Patrick Huyghe, and published by Quill,
 >an imprint of HarperCollins, only about $10.40 from Amazon.

 >No UFOs were harmed in the production of same. Sorry about the
 >trees, though, who were more than defamed in the process. In
 >fact, they were chopped down and pulped! Thankfully, I didn't
 >have to watch.

 >Dennis Stacy

Dear Dennis, EBK, Tail and Lister Twisters,

I seriously doubt my need for a field guide, as I've seen a few
(not all) but a few, on my own. And interestingly, every single
sucker carried the "navigation" lights which Patrick found so
amusing on Strange Days, Indeed.

Always wondered about the lights but never regarded these as
navigation aids to either the UFO or other, more conventional
flying craft, altho these light on UFO's may very well be for
concealment to the masses who never observe anything except a
bottle of Gripple with a little purple left over. It may be many
things. However like the phenomena itself, we don't know what or
why. So I prefer not to find it amusing, but rather observe the
phenom and try to figure it out. This is, after all, the purpose
of the cadre of researchers we are stuck with. Is it not?

As an aside, it has always been a feeling of mine that lights on
UFO's had some much more important function than to merely light
the way, or be recognized. They must function for other, more
sophisticated purposes. Just my opinion.

I read Corso's book. I found it interesting. I did not dissect
it for purposes of defaming it, him or his ideas. I read it,
respected the man for his coming out (that ain't easy, I can
testify to that) and decided that there was nothing in the book
which proved anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. Not truth, not
lies, not anything. Just one man's stated truth.

Abductees should get together and form a pact. We should call
ourselves "perceived" abductees. If we make that distinction in
the face of what our memories shriek out as truth, and our
intellects shriek out even louder as an impossibility, then and
only then, can someone such as yourself understand the angst
felt by someone who has a truth, but knows it may not be either
believed or be a truth.

The end result, in my case at least, is an open mind. No need to
respond. It's like arguing birth control, gun control or
politics. It's a no-win scenario. Besides, when you ain't go no
faith, then you got unbelief. Someone smarter than I said that.

Jim