UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 06:59:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 06:59:46 -0500 Subject: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team Source: BBC Devon http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/news_features/2004/ufos.shtml 9th February 2004 How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott have never been given an explanation about what they saw This is the strange tale of a UFO sighting which was reported by two Devon policemen and placed in Britain's X-Files. More than 35 years on, there's still no explanation as to what it was that the two officers saw in the sky above West Devon that October night..... You're driving along a country lane in rural Devon when all of a sudden something appears in the skies above you. It's a series of bright lights arranged in the shape of a cross - and you've never seen anything like it before. It's not an aircraft, and it's definitely not the stars. It must be a UFO. Far fetched? Try telling that to retired policemen Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott, because this is exactly what happened to them one weird October night back in 1967. They reported the sighting, and were amazed to receive a visit from a team of investigators from the Ministry of Defence. Their report was then stored away in Britain's very own X-Files, deep in the MoD's vaults in London. There, the report has remained - together with almost 200 other UFO files. All of them are now set to be released for the very first time in 2005 as a result of the Freedom of Information Act. Follow that UFO... Sgt Roger Willey and Pc Clifford Waycott were on their way back to their police station when they were diverted to an investigation which they've never been able to solve. This time, it wasn't criminals they were chasing - it was a UFO! Thirty-seven years on, and the sighting is still vivid in Roger's memory: "We were making our way back between Holsworthy and Hatherleigh when we saw this unusual bright white light in the sky. "We both registered that we'd seen something. It was something we couldn't logically account for. "It was something that I hadn't seen before; I haven't seen since; and something that nobody can explain exactly what it was." The two officers 'followed' the UFO before returning to the station. Like Roger, Clifford also recalls the evening as though it was yesterday: "My view of it was that it was moving slowly. "It wasn't a star. It was bright - it was white. If you look at glass which has got rain on, it was the same sort of inference. It was a splash. It was just too...eerie." The incident was reported on the national BBC TV news bulletins, but Clifford says the powers that be wanted the sighting 'hushed up.' "We were visited by a boffin from the MoD who told us that we were still officers under the Official Secrets Acts and they would rather we kept it to ourselves." Back then, a number of debates were raging about the UFO sightings in Britain. Could it be the Soviet Union spying on us? Were the UFOs further evidence of life in outer space? Or were people just seeing things? The Government was concerned enough to keep the X-Files under lock and key. But in 2000, some of the files started to be released and next year, in 2005, they'll all be made available to the public. The Government has wound down its investigations with the conclusion that there's no hard evidence about UFO existence...but the MoD emphasises it still has an open mind. Roger and Clifford, meanwhile, say they didn't imagine their sighting and they're still waiting for a logical explanation. "No explanation has been given to us by anybody and we haven't asked," said Cifford.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Astronomy Weekend Looks To Debunk Alien Stereotype From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:04:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:04:19 -0500 Subject: Astronomy Weekend Looks To Debunk Alien Stereotype Source: Pittsurgh Review-Tribune http://tinyurl.com/7xtoj March 31, 2005 Astronomy Weekend Looks To Debunk Alien Stereotype By Candy Williams For those whose idea of alien life on other planets involves little green men and flying saucers, David Grinspoon wants to set the record straight. "Everybody is fascinated by the possibilities of extraterrestrial life. We're all seeking a connection to a larger universe. Unfortunately, the Martian image has been burned into our culture," says Grinspoon, an award-winning author and scientist for Southwest Research Institute of Boulder, Colo. Grinspoon is scheduled to speak this weekend as part of Carnegie Science Center's Henry Buhl Jr. Planetarium and Observatory Astronomy Day festivities. His talk on "Imaging Titan: The Ongoing Discovery of a Strange New World" will look at the latest revelations from the Cassini orbiter and Huygens probe at Saturn's moon Titan, which he says is "the most fascinating place we ever explored in our solar system." The scientist, who studies planetary evolution, contends that Titan "is a very active world, full of organic molecules and signs of occasional liquid water flow. As far as we know, that's the recipe for life. We're finding intriguing signs that could support some kind of life" on Titan. Grinspoon's first book, "Venus Revealed," published in 1998, was a Los Angeles Times Book Prize finalist. His latest work, "Lonely Planets: The Natural History of Alien Life," won the 2004 PEN Center USA Literary Award for Research Nonfiction. He earned philosophy of science and planetary science degrees from Brown University and a doctorate in planetary sciences from the University of Arizona. Following his 2 p.m. presentation on Saturday, Grinspoon will sign copies of his book outside the Planetarium. Visitors to this weekend's special event also will be able to view the rings of Saturn and the moons of Jupiter, weather permitting, from 9 to 10:30 p.m. Saturday in the science center's rooftop observatory. Depending on the time of year, Saturn -- the sixth planet from the sun and second largest in the solar system -- is visible with a small telescope on clear nights, and its rings can be seen with binoculars, says George Guzik of North Huntingdon, president of the Amateur Astronomers Association of Pittsburgh. Guzik says a growing number of astronomy enthusiasts are becoming interested in exploring the night sky. There are 530 members of the local organization, he says, ranging from teens to those in their 80s and 90s. An estimated 5,000 people visited the planetarium during last year's Astronomy Day weekend, according to Guzik. Members of the amateur astronomers group will show visitors how to safely observe the sun to examine sunspots and other solar phenomena from noon to 3 p.m. Saturday and Sunday, weather permitting, on the patio behind the Science Center cafe. Dan Malerbo, educational coordinator of the Immersive Theaters - - the Henry Buhl Jr. Planetarium and the Rangos Omnimax -- at Carnegie Science Center, says that because of current exploration by the Cassini-Huygens mission, Saturn is the hot topic in astronomy circles. Some of the special planetarium programming throughout the weekend will reflect the Saturn theme. At 1 p.m. Saturday in the Planetarium, Scott Edgington, Ph.D., a mission manager from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at California Institute of Technology, will participate in a Cassini-Huygens teleconference from its Pasadena headquarters about his role with the ongoing studies of Saturn and the exciting discoveries taking place. At 1 p.m. Sunday, also in the Planetarium, Art Glaser, a historical consultant for Allegheny Observatory, will talk about the history of the observatory and important research concerning Saturn that took place there.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Ufology 101 New Doc Slated For Filming In May From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:07:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:07:27 -0500 Subject: Ufology 101 New Doc Slated For Filming In May Source: Kapuskasing Northern Times - Ontario, Canada http://www.kapuskasingtimes.com/story.php?id=3D151728 Wednesday March 30, 2005 Ufology 101 New Doc Slated For Filming In May by Marian S. Makitalo Kapuskasing Northern Times =97 MOONBEAM -- With one short film on Moonbeam=92s UFO history already in the can, another Toronto-based film production company has expressed interest in documenting the strange goings on in the sky above UFO-town. Unlike the last film made in Moonbeam, Port 53 head John Hyatt said his film will not be a short, 10-minute documentary. He is planning something bigger and broader. "I have always been interested in UFOs and I would love a chance to embrace the phenomenon," said Mr. Hyatt, who grew up learning about UFO and aliens from his father. "My brothers and I grew up with my dad really into them." Mr. Hyatt anticipates visiting Moonbeam with a film crew in mid- May for interviews with locals, with an eye to seeing or experiencing something tangible during their stay. "I am hoping someone can show me evidence of the UFO viewing or landing in the area," he said. In other Moonbeam film news, the Bloor Street Productions documentary filmed in the fall has yet to be televised, but Moonbeam Economic Development Corporation co-ordinator Melanie Bergeron has seen the piece. "It=92s very interesting," said Ms Bergeron, who appears in the film (as does Northern Times reporter Marian S. Makitalo and number of other familiar faces). The Bloor Street film was to begin airing on the Space Channel in April, but the film=92s producer, Doug Smibert, said a little red tape with the Canadian Radio-Television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) has delayed its release.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Dugway Expansion A Mystery From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:15:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:15:07 -0500 Subject: Dugway Expansion A Mystery Source: Deseret Morning News - Salt Lake City, Utah http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600122609,00.html March 31, 2005 Dugway Expansion A Mystery Are plans due to tainted soil =97 or maybe UFOs? By Lee Davidson Deseret Morning News Does the Army want to expand its Dugway Proving Ground in Utah so it can forcibly obtain nearby land it contaminated with chemical weapons but has refused to clean? Or does it want to keep UFO-hunting groups farther away from the secretive base because they now closely watch it, suspecting that it stores and works on alien spacecraft as a "new Area 51"? Pick either theory or one of your own because the Army isn't going to say. Five months after being asked, the Army has officially refused to release documents explaining why and where exactly it might expand Dugway. In a letter denying a Freedom of Information Act request filed in October by the Deseret Morning News, Brig. Gen. James R. Myles, commander of the U.S. Army Test and Evaluation Command, states that the Army had identified "a number of documents ... regarding proposals to enlarge the boundaries of Dugway Proving Ground," confirming it is indeed looking at expanding the base that is already larger than Rhode Island. But, he wrote, "we must withhold the documents in their entirety under Exemption 5 of the FOIA (Freedom of Information Act). All of the documents found responsive to your request are predecisional and deliberative in nature." That exemption allows =97 but does not require =97 government agencies to withhold "predecisional" documents that debate proposals to help encourage open and frank discussion about policy between subordinates and superiors, and to protect against premature disclosure of proposed policies. The Morning News immediately appealed the denial to the secretary of the Army, arguing that release of the information would be in the public interest and would reduce confusion and speculation about why the military is considering expansion of the base. The newspaper first reported in October that the Army was looking at the expansion, as rumored by nearby landowners. At that time, the base issued a short statement to the newspaper saying, "Dugway has requested permission to study the possibility of increasing the size of Dugway's training and testing ranges." The Army has not said how big an expansion it is considering nor exactly where. In 1988, the Army also proposed expanding it to obtain 66 square miles south of the base after studies showed it was contaminated by old tests of chemical weapons. That expansion never occurred, in part because the U.S. Bureau of Land Management =97 which owns most of that land =97 opposed the expansion and called for the Army to clean up any old munitions there instead. Also, siblings Louise, Douglas and Allan Cannon =97 who jointly own land in the area and hold numerous mining claims there =97 have questioned publicly whether the military is pushing a new expansion to forcibly obtain their lands, where contamination occurred but the military has refused to clean. Court documents from Cannon lawsuits disclose that the Army attacked the Cannon's old family mines with 3,000 rounds of chemical arms for tests at the end of World War II. It also bombed the surface of 1,425 acres of Cannon family-owned land above the mines with more than 23 tons of chemical arms, including deadly mustard agent, hydrogen cyanide and choking agent Phosgene. The Army says it had permission from the Cannons' grandfather for that testing. But the younger Cannons say contracts only recently found required cleaning of the land =97 and failure to do that has prevented working potentially lucrative gold mines. Courts dismissed their claims saying they were filed too late. "They bombed the heck out of it and contaminated our lands =97 and the surrounding (public) lands. And they won't clean it up," Louise Cannon complained last year. Meanwhile, hunters for aliens also said they suspect Dugway is trying to expand to keep them farther away. Several of them report seeing from afar mysterious Army convoys with trucks carrying under tarps some oval or circular objects they conjecture could be alien flying saucers. Dave Rosenfeld, president of Utah UFO Hunters, has said hunters of aliens have been watching Dugway closely. Many groups operate Web sites contending that secret work on aliens and their spacecraft that they say once occurred at Nevada's Area 51 have
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:02:20 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:16:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reason >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:14:20 -0500 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >The price varies depending upon the source of the abstract or >paper, all of which come from various universities, hospitals, >and other medical venues. So you're suggesting that people should involve themselves in ordering several dozen or even, potentially, several hundred documents, many of which will probably turn out to be irrelevant, all because you can't be bothered to back up your claims with citations to the relevant literature? Rich, this is farcical. If you were to submit an undergraduate
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:31:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:21:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:18:14 +0000 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:01:30 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:29:09 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>Since when did you need a password to browse PubMed? >>>>http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/ >>>To see some abstracts (or have them sent to you, in toto), a >>>password is needed. >>>Otherwise seekers will only get a precis of the work listed. >>Yes, a precis is what you usually get when you browse an >>academic database, it's called an abstract. >>Are you saying the NLM is in the practice of mailing out hard >>copies of manuscripts to people's home addresses? Would you >>care to say how much they charge for this service? >Cathy and List, >I think Rich Reynolds has been caught with his bluff down. As >you noted, his failure to ever provide citations that we can all >look at makes it seem likely that he has none. As a professional >abstractor/indexer for most of my adult life - including >American Psychological Association and National Institutes of >Health databases - I get the distinct impression that he doesn't >know what he is talking about when it comes to scientific >databases. Dick Hall (and List): Do I need to know anything about online databases in order to send those who might have an interest in abductions for information about "sleep disorders" to a place where they can read the material? The generic citation should be enough. If anyone is familiar with the National Library of Medicine and other psychological venues, they would know that there a gazillion abstracts available. Am I supposed to guess which ones someone interested in sleep disorders and abductions might find uselful? I would have to have a god-like prescience in order to select the appropriate citations, among the many, that might pertain to a specific interest.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Exopolitical Analysis - Salla From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:36:44 -1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:23:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis - Salla >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:01:43 EST >Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 04:52:06 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research ><snip> >When one has little external factual context to check a story, >heavier reliance must be made on checking for internal >inconsistency and contradictions, and checking for broader >factual, scientific and political errors (e.g., if a defector >claimed that Kim il-Jung ruled by taking a democratic vote of >his advisers on every matter we would find that defector not >very credible based on what we know about Kim). >Checking for consistency is erroneous methodology, it means >you're trying to not find errors. All the "consistency" in the >world will not trump one major factual contradiction proving an >alleged witness a liar. This is the problem with the Woods' >methodology, all they do is look for support for MJ-12 and >naturally they rarely if ever find any problems with it. Aloha Brad, you make an important error here in that you assume that the system in which whistleblowers and researchers operate is a transparent one where nothing distorts data collection and analysis. This is not true when it comes to the ETH as I've repeatedly said with all the evidence that national security agencies have created a system for distracting, deceiving and distorting information that might validate the ETH. The Woods team do a solid job in analysing the Majestic Documents which is a major contribution to UFO and Exopolitical research. >>...Hall is not the first to come forward with such >>stories, but he certainly is providing testimony that goes >>beyond what other whistleblowers have been able to reveal about >>high level cooperation between EBEs and the US military. ><snip> >So aliens are friendly? But in the next paragraphs the aliens >are a "threat." Cooperation does not mean friendly. The US cooperated with the USSR throughout the Cold War era in various areas but neither was friendly to the other's social system and strategic goals. >>Basically, we have to consider that at some point a group of >>senior national security officials sat in a room and put >>together a rational process to deal with the ET civilizations >>that were visiting. We might call this committee MJ-12 as in the >>1947 Truman memo but formation of such a committee would have >>been a rational policy. >Committees are notorious for not getting things done or taking >rapid action. The Mahattan project was run by one man, Gen. >Groves, in a military chain of command. That is how "threats" >are handled. Committees merely review, rarely are relied upon in >national security contexts to take and direct action. The MJ-12 >fraud is a nebulous entity with no clear operational command >structure yet is supposed to direct actions operationally. If you take a look at the modern military and national security systems you will find a blend of committees and senior military officials who make key decisions. The committee process can be organized as a means for making key decisions, or for informing the key leader what are the most rational choices from a range of options. The Joint Chiefs of Staff is a committee where various interests, Navy, Army, Air Force, Marines, etc., meet or collide. It's give and take where no one person can ignore the competing interests between the different factions without running into major trouble. I think if you look at all the key committees that make up the national security system and/or deal with the black projects I've been mentioning, they'll be a similar blend of competing interests between military and intelligence bureaucracies that collectively make up the national security system in the US. So your point that committees are notorius for not getting things done is not correct. Committees are means for competing actors to have their interests represented and included in the policy making process. >>I think the best clue that this happened >>are events such as Gen Vandenberg rejecting the initial Estimate >>of the Situation provided by the Project Sign team back in >>October 1948. That suggested that a national security system had >>been put in place to deal with the ET phenomenon by at least >>1947/48 if not earlier. ><snip> >You are sorely misinformed. There were _two_ Estimates of the >Situation because Gen. Vandenberg in fact did not reject the >first one which reached the Pentagon on Aug. 5, 1948, but it was >rejected (as I have been able to reconstruct the policy history >and process) by Gen. Craigie the AF Director of R&D. >When Craigie was replaced by Gen. Putt in Sept 1948 the AMC >Intelligence Dept decided to try again and _revised_ the >Estimate of the Situation at the end of Sept 1948. But Gen. Putt >would not overturn his predecessor's decision. Where did you get your information on this? I've relied on Michael Swords "Project Sign and Estimate of the Situation" (http://www.ufoscience.org/history/swords.pdf) and Richard Dolan's "UFO's and the National Security State" to reconstruct events here concerning Vandenberg and the First Estimate. In both cases it was Gen Vandenberg that rejected the first Estimate of the Situation produced by the Project Sign team based on his disatisfaction with the conclusive report in favor of the ETH. The First Estimate was submitted in late September 1948 and incorporated the most recent case which occurred on Sept 23 at Los Alamos. The Estimate was not submitted on Aug 5 to Gen Craigie since it had not yet been completed. What you are suggesting is contrary to accepted scholarship on what happened with the First Estimate produced by the Project Sign team so until you show your sources for your argument, I'll continue to argue that Vandenberg's dismissal of the First Estimate in October 1948 is a decisive event in UFO history. >Gen. Craig said they could try going to Gen. Vandenberg but he >would not overturn the prior decisions either. It's hardly the >picture of some conspiratorial scheme to protect some >supersecret, just mundane military politics. Gen. Craigie was >well respected and he had rejected the EOTS and that was that, >no one was inclined to overrule him. As I said, your version here is contrary to what Swords and Dolan have argued concerning the decision making process concerning the First Estimate of the Situation. Vandenberg rejected the Estimate on grounds that had nothing to do with the technical assessment provided by the Project Sign team and everything to do with National Security concerns. Nothing mundane here, the most dramatic event in human history was being ignored by the highest level of the US Airforce contrary to the advise of Air Force technical specialists. That's very significant. >>The next step would have been (for MJ-12) to organize the >>development of a 'White Paper' or 'Threat Assessment' of the ET >>visitors. Part of the Threat Assessment would certainly have >>contained a 'Strategic Vision' on how to achieve 'parity' with >>the visitors. This is standard for militaries around the world ><snip> >So now the aliens are a "threat" and (in the part I snipped) you >say there would even be a 50-year strategic plan for dealing >with the alien "threat." So are the aliens friendly or hostile? That's the goal of a 'threat assessment', to determine the intention and capabilities of the visitors. As far as national security planning is concerned, you try to develop a coherent response based on your best scientific and strategic advice. >What is "standard for militaries around the world" is a single >line of command where responsibility for decisionmaking is put >in one man's hands, not in a committee. You miss the point I'm making. Militaries around the world produce 'White Papers' every five years or so to assess the strategic situation confronting them in maintaining the security of a nation. Any new political, technical or economic developments are factored in to produce a document that provides a long terms strategic assessment of present, future and possible threats to the national security of the country in question. This document is produced by various committees that look at all the information and make rational choices over what are the most credible threat scenarios. That document then goes through the political system to ensure the necessary finanacing, etc, so the miltiary can meet any military contingency that lies in the future. This is standard for all militaries in Western nations and is a rational process. Regardless of whether it's a committee or individual who makes the final decisions concerning the development of a White Paper, the process is rational and no one in the Western world would stay for long in a senior military position if they stopped making rational choices based on the information before them. What I'm saying is that this process involving a threat assessment of new actors in the global system would certainly have been done in the case of the conclusive knowledge of senior military officials to the truth about the ETH. Once we realize the national security system put in place to deal with any possible threat, real or contrived, posed by the ET visitors, we can then logically deduce other aspects of the system as reflected in military regulations such as JANAP 146, leaked documents such as the Special Operations Manual that the Woods team has analysed, recovery of disks such as at Roswell, and disgruntled beaucracies such as Hoover's FBI that were put outside of the loop. When we fully analyse all that information, we can learn much about the factors that contextualize the data collection process for the UFO phenomenon. That's the correct foundation for a rigorous study of the UFO phenomeon.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: The Moby Dick [Alien] Abduction - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:52:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:26:41 -0500 Subject: Re: The Moby Dick [Alien] Abduction - Reynolds >From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:50:10 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Moby Dick [Alien] Abduction >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:00:12 -0500 >>Subject: The Moby Dick [Alien] Abduction <snip> >Your post is fascinating, though, because it shows the way you >think. >When you call this an alien abduction, what you really mean is >that you believe an experience like this one is, at bottom, the >same thing as an alien abduction experience. This may be true. >Or it may not be true. You certainly believe it's true. But you >don't know! What you have is a theory, which you keep repeating >as though it were a proven fact. Greg: It wasn't a theory I was proposing, nor even an hypothesis. The paper that lead me to the Moby Dick excerpt implied that Herman Melville interpolated the incident based upon a real experience that he had - as he did with most of the whaling details from his experiences as a whaler. I thought it interesting and one more avenue for insertion in the abduction discussion. That I was being ironic seems not to have made its mark. I agree with you that the abduction scenario may well be a whole other aspect of "sleep disorders" or even real events; that is, aliens are actually interacting with the persons afflicted. Based upon my education in psychology, I, however, find the alien interpretation a bit farfetched, but a distinct
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:53:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:29:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reason >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:57:57 EST >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >So, in reality, my language was imprecise. I was suggesting that >this is something like sleep paralysis that occurs in the >daytime during the non horizontal activities. The point was not >to get into a discussion of sleep paralysis vs. cataplexy, but >to suggest that the dismissive attitude that sleep paralysis can >explain no claims of alien abduction because some people have >been abducted in the daylight and engaged in non horizontal >activities is a false claim. I realize that, but my point was to say you can't assume that because penguins eat fish, that all birds will therefore eat fish, still less that all animals will eat fish. The various phenomena observed in sleep disorders each have there own characteristics, and they shouldn't be conflated. Cataplexy is emphatically not a synonym for sleep paralysis - each has its own particular phenomenology and they aren't interchangeable. For example, cataplexy (as you indicate) varies enormously in extent, from a barely perceptible loss of facial muscle tone to a full-blown collapse. Both probably involve the same neural mechanism, but that same mechanism is also involved not only in REM-stage sleep but also (it's becoming increasingly clear) in variations in muscle tone during waking hours. Plainly it doesn't make sense to assume that, because the same neural mechanism is involved in each, cataplexy, sleep paralysis, REM-stage sleep and normal waking are all the same thing and exhibit the same phenomenology. Similarly, one can't automatically assume that because hallucinations take certain forms in association with sleep paralysis, that they will take whatever form is required to make
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:12:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:31:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <Ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:36:06 -1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:44:10 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:53:50 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research >>>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:28:36 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research <snip> >I think the search for irrefutable proof or hard evidence in the >national security system set up in response to visitation of ET >races is really an act of faith. Far too many UFO researchers >chant the mantra of 'hard evidence' or 'irrefutable proof' but >are really promoting a kind of faith based approach to UFOlogy. >I think we need to begin from the premise that the national >security system was set up to keep the truth about the ET >presence secret and to punish/intimidate those who broke ranks >to reveal what they had seen/done or provided any kind of hard >evidence. Essentially, we need to factor in the distorting role >played by national security agencies if we are to make sense of >the entire ET phenomenon and to better appreciate how to deal >with whistleblower testimonies. If we begin with the correct >premises about what was set up back in the 40s and 50s, we can >work out what's happening currently. To continue with the search >for hard evidence or irrefutable proof is really a faith based >approach. Dr. Salla: Your paragraph above will surely make 'ufologists' wince. The mantra of "irrefutable truth" is a must for the serious among them. And I, a preceived neophyte apparently, also think that someone, somewhere, has got to come forward, damning their careers or retirement, and show that which will convince the UFO skeptics and debunkers. Billy Mitchell did just that, and he has become a real hero of the Air Force and general American public who know his story. That understanding would, it seems to me, resonate with some,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:42:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:33:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 05:19:48 -1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research >If you can think of a better >historical example of where a nation/city discovered the >existence of more powerful neighbors and immediately set >about widespread political, cultural, technological reforms >while keeping their citizenry in the dark about the new >powerful neighbor, I'll be delighted. Michael, North Korea might be an example. The elite leadership is well aware of the outside world, watches Hollywood movies, goes to nightclubs. The population at large has no contact with any of this. Many of them actually believe, even while they're starving, that they're still better off than other countries, South Korea, for instance. Or at least they believed that until recently. Now things are starting to break down, because the North Korean government is beginning to open up. But in order to maintain this kind of control, North Korea had a rigidly totalitarian system. The radios people can buy only receive one station. Anyone who said anything critical of the leadership - or even spoke out loud about a problem, like no food in the stores - would be sent to a prison camp. Whole familie were sent, three generations at once. Children were shot to death by firing squads. This is the most ghastly government I've ever heard of. Other Communist countries were far more lenient. In the Soviet Union, for instance, everybody knew that the US and western Europe were better off. Everybody tried to get clothes and consumer goods from western countries. The government, oppressive as it was, wasn't able to control what people thought. In every Soviet-bloc country, bitter jokes circulated about the leaders. North Korea, by very strong contrast, really did manage to control what people thought. And no jokes were ever told about the leaders or the system, something that I believe is unique among Communist countries. That suggests that it's quite difficult to control information. A government has to go to extraordinary lengths. I do think that
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:55:42 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:35:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Groff >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:32:59 -0500 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:40:30 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations ><snip> >>>http://tinyurl.com/5yxuj ><snip> >>These look like digital image compression artifacts to me. I >>don't know what compression scheme is used for these photos, but >>I doubt it is garden variety JPEG. >If those are digital compression artifacts, or, if those are >pixel-patch dither patterns to achieve desired colour, >brightness and texture for the larger image, then such patterns >_must_ appear uniformly over the _entire_ image. By "uniformly" >I don't mean every patch shows the identical pattern, but there >must be some sort of pixel pattern over the entire main image. >Do these patterns extend over the entire image? Hi Eleanor, List Actually the artifacts are apparent in all the flattest areas of the image however the original image looks like a CGI composite from stereo images. http://tinyurl.com/4dokq There is a high resolution TIF image of Hale Crater taken by ESA which has similar artifacts but they don't match up to the JPG image in question. http://tinyurl.com/6yf9o 9 MB I would suggest choosing the 'Save' option when you click this link If you have trouble viewing the TIF image you can download the free Irfanview viewer at:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Cammack From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:01:41 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:38:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Cammack >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:56:31 -0400 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 11:19:55 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:09:44 -0500 >>>Subject: Mars Desert Excavations >>>They better have a good explanation for what appears in the >>>lower left of the Hale Crater on Mars. See: >>>http://tinyurl.com/5yxuj >>These markings do look for all the world like a terrestrial >farm-field patchwork or some analogue. But could they be an >artefact of a digitally reconstructed image? >>I don't know how this HRSC camera works, but as it's stereo >imaging I suppose the mission focus is on land contour rather >than texture. Software might be used to generate the contours >from a digital plane that is a grid of pixel elements laid down >so as to simulate the camera perspective. It would then have to >apply a smoothing/averaging algorithm to the underlying pixel >structure. This would need to be applied pretty fiercely in >shadowed and highlighted upland regions where the density >contrast is large, but would not need to be applied in >relatively featureless level areas where the contrast is low. >>When the final image is then "enhanced" by anomaly-hunters and >the contrast is racked up, the unsmoothed grid-like structure >emerges. >>Just a guess. >The CCD reading it's own reflected printed circuit mosaic [or as >Bruce puts it, seeing your own retina] or some other imaging >result perhaps a product of imaging compression during the >blowup seem to be the popular explanations for the unusual >patterns on the surface. >Perhaps so, but pushing the heck out of other Mars Express >images doesn't yield the same mosaic or images. The irregularity >of the the tiny artifacts, their haphazard linement and shapes >are a bit unusual as well for some self-image pixels. >Needs further analyses before the big blow off in my estimation. >One thing though. These images have been up for several weeks >[URLs were sent to me at least 2 weeks ago] if not longer so the >April Fool's day explanation is probably not flyable. >But I've a sneaking suspicion that this is a technical glitch. >It's served one purpose though and that is to highlight the >ESA's images of Mars. Very arresting. List, I am not a photographer or technologically adept, but I do paint and learned something of perspective. if I were to draw or paint a picture of a hillside with patchwork fields on it, and wanted to show that the slope of the hill changed, or that it rolled and was irregular, I would make sure the sides of my patches did not line up - that is, I would make sure that they were at different angles to one another (even a few degrees different, e.g., when coming down a hill or across the contour).... sorry I cannot explain any better... anyway, am I right that the sides of the patches on these images are not parallel to one another, so that those on one side of the photo do not run parallel to the sides of those elsewhere in the photo? If these patches were a 'digital grid of pixels' or a reflection
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:46:57 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:40:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Smith >From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:58:24 +1000 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >I agree with the others; looks like an imaging artifact. Yes. Exactly what is hard ot say. Certainly Martians aren't going to build cities in a crater. >http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/first/24.11.2004_eng.shtml >And looking at the original images, I can't see any sign of the >claimed structures. So yet another Martian anomaly claim bites >the dust..... Looking at: http://tinyurl.com/6wdsx I can see the rectangular field effect with no modification. Equalization makes it more apparent. I do not know if this is pixellation though. It seems to me that the color pallette is limited (in the original data? or postprocessing to provide the above image or even just on MY computer or because it is some original-to-JPEG conversion problem) was such that there were only two levels of color to play with for that region. How it assigns the value of the pallette is not known (closest random, closest neighbors).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:07:30 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:41:44 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Smith >From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:19:00 +0000 >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >Never before or after the March 5, 2004 incident the Mexican Air >Force has experienced, witnessed or encountered a similar >phenomena nor similar objects or lights invisible to their eyes >but detected by radar and FLIR systems. The mysterious >lights/objects have not appeared again even that they are aware >of this incident and alert to detect a new apparition. This has >been reported and confirmed, period. What official report documents this? Have they shown the flight paths and have they looked at that location? What was the weather, viewing like for that range? >Therefore we have our own confirmation of the March 5, 2004 UFO >incident as legitimate. You wish. >The Mexican Air Force is a military >institution that will not, under any circumstance condition >their programs, activities and duties to a request of a civilian >for purposes not related to a national interest. Really? So they don't think it important enough for their national security to confirm or deny the oil flare theory? Even the ability to confirm that their operators and equipment is functioning is related to national security. If the operators can't even view FLIR without becoming spooked because of viewing oil flare burnoffs then that seems to really be a national security problem! >They have >higher priorities and will not subject themselves to prove >anything based on this premise, we understand this perfectly and >accept it as part of the proccess. Lame, my friend. What they are saying is that they can do no wrong and they will not be accountable for errors or wrongs they may have done or will do. Where is their accountability? I have only seen a laxness in their ability to investigate this "UFO" reporting and no interest in reporting on attempts to explain it using methods entirely in their command (re-fly the damn plane and fly the same damn path and look the same damn direction during the same damn weather/viewing conditions). >To expect the Mexican Air Force or any other Air Force in the >world to perform some test flight altering their programs just >to prove a real UFO encounter took place is just an illusion and >most probably will never happen. We must keep on mind what we >are talking here and the consequences of every meassure taken. Yes, we REALLY want our military to go to a high state of nuclear alert because of operator error or lack of full understanding of other phenomena besides missiles or invasion aircraft (i.e. bolides, other natural phenomena). In this case, the pilots were mere drug interdiction guys, so we won't go to World War III over it, but still, who knows what could have happened if they had remained freaked out (crashed?). After all, it was not US that asked them for this FLIR data, they gave it up and thus should be accountable and participatory in the resolution of the incident. As it is, they seem to have moved on silently from the fiasco hoping it will be forgotten. >However the Air Force officials have been kind enough to inform >us about their observations and findings during their subsequent >surveillance flights over that area but as a courtesy and in the >understanding that these are not official reports, just >informations given to us as part of our direct communication in >this new established relationship. Oh, not official, just hearsay. Right. And you think they are totally honest and will not admit to being foolish enough to say they thought oil flares were UFOs and thus be a laughing stock? >We understand and accept our compromise with the Air Force, This >relationship will be mantained following their rules and >designs. >They keep their leadership and command above all acts >in this proccess and are willing to mantain the communication >line open and the cooperation active but under their rules, this >is understood and accepted. And you will be subject to their arcane motives. A good strong position to be in... not. >We are optimistic that important advances are coming to our >Mexican UFO research with this trascendental communication line >open. But most of our research issues will be kept just for
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 08:46:15 -1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:44:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Goldstein >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 07:59:11 -0600 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:09:44 -0500 >>Subject: Mars Desert Excavations >>They better have a good explanation for what appears in the >>lower left of the Hale Crater on Mars. See: >>http://tinyurl.com/5yxuj >My elation at the discovery of this sensational evidence of a >Martian civilization is tempered somewhat by the closeness of >the date to April Fool's Day. <g> Hello Lan, We may be near April 1 but I swear I saw my family farm (including the tractor)in that photo. Also, when I was a child I suffered terribly from the old hag syndrome. I spent the summers at my grandparents and every morning my grandmother (an old warhorse from Russia who outlived 3 husbands) would wake me by pressing her hand on my chest and shaking, telling me to get up
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: The Kinross Incident - Heath From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:01:28 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:47:23 -0500 Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident - Heath >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:26:31 EST >Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith - Sparks >>From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:49:40 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith ><snip> >>research into flying saucers, was the same day that a US Air >>Force jet and crew were possibly captured by a confounded >>"flying saucer" and sent into oblivion. >Pieces of the jet were found several months later. This is a most intrigueing and puzzling piece of information. Could you tell us your source for this information and provide us any further details? I do know that several months after the F-89 disappearance, the 49th Air Rescue Squadron reopened the search for the F-89 in response to information and requests from radar operator Lt. Robert Wilson's father. The information related to reports from an Algoma Central Railway crew who were in the vicinity of the rail siding at Limer, Ontario on the night of the F-89 disappearance. The USAF SAR report states "The information had been forwarded to this Squadron through channels requesting reopening of the mission based on reports of a low flying aircraft in the vicinity of Limer, Ontario, Canada, which would correlate with the time of the missing F-89." Interestingly, this version of the lead is contradicted in a 1968 news story in the Sault Star that referred back to the disappearance of the F-89 on the mission over Lake Superior. "Sometime later, Algoma Central Railway workers reported hearing a crash that could have been caused by the F-89, according to Sault Star files." Arrangements were made with the RCAF for the USAF to fly over large areas of the land east of Lake Superior, from Wawa to Sault Ste. Marie. The air search went on for ten days with negative results. The father of Lt. Wilson was present at Kinross at the time of the search efforts. I have seen photographic prints taken from the air search in RCAF SAR files at the National Archives in Ottawa. If "pieces of the jet were found several months later", after the November 23, 1953 dissappearance, this was certainly never reported to pilot Lt. Felix Eugene Moncla, Jr. (Gene). Gene's mother, who wrote a letter to Major Donald Keyhoe on May 21, 1957 about Keyhoe's accounts of his research into the Kinross Incident. "Ever since reading your book 'The Flying Saucer Conspiracy', in Feb. '56, I have been wanting to write to thank you for writing this book throughout which my son's, Felix Eugene Moncla, Jr., mysterious disappearance in an F89 Interceptor predominates. ... Through you, I feel I will know what can be revealed. I realize the Air Force has done what it can in solving this mystery and possibly are still delving into it, but this secrecy leaves Gene's family and friends without consolation and hope." I have met and talked with many of Gene's surviving family relations and friends, including his widow, son daughter, surviving sister, nephews and several cousins. None of them ever mentioned hearing anything about recovery of pieces from the jet. I have informed a number of them about my interest in the reported recovery of parts from a military jet that were found in the bush, near the eastern shore of Lake Superior in October, 1968. I had received the initial news story from Richard Haines in response to an inquiry I wrote to him a number of years ago. Last year I went back to Sault Ste. Marie to look through the archives of the Sault Star, to see if the parts were ever reported as identified. My search yielded a negative result. The recovered parts were extensively reported on October 30 and 31, 1968. The initial story on October 30 was headlined "Do aircraft parts belong to lost F-89?" It reported "this week two prospectors stumbled over the aircraft parts in the bush around the Cozens Cove, Alona Bay area". It further stated "Provincial Police today identified the tail section taken from aircraft parts discovered Tuesday as military. The remnant is made from heavier metal than normally used in aircraft, an OPP spokesman said." A large photograph of a pice of wreckage being inspected by Sgt. Peter McIntyre and Major J.H. Parker (OPP and USAF officers) was published in the Sault Star on October 31. The accompanying stories were headlined "Parts of plane found may be any of 7 lost" and "...likely jet fighter". The report states "Officials have yet to learn its identity" and "It's not the F-89 - The forest still broods over that wreckage." Of some additional interest, the news story also states in relation to the Kinross event, "According to Sault Star files, the UFO 'alert' had been previously arranged with the RCAF." One has to wonder why the RCAF denied any involvement in the incident on at least two occasions if this were true. Also of interest, the paper reports "In March 1960, a USAF T-33 trainer crashed 18 miles south of Kincheloe: One man was found: The other apparently escaped the aircraft successfully but was never rescued." (Note: Kinross AFB was renamed to Kincheloe AFB.) The second story published on the 31st stated "Aircraft parts found near Cozens Cove by two prospectors may prove the wreckage from a jet fighter, downed several years ago over Lake Superior. Maj. J.H.Parker of the USAF Kincheloe Air Base, positively identified the stabilizer found early this week as belonging to a high performance military jet aircraft." "The tail section washed up from the lake, probably brought up by currents to the point where the two prospectors found it near shore." Notice that the previous day, the parts were reported as found "in the bush". "Earlier there was some conjecture it could have been wreckage from an F-89 Scorpion interceptor downed in 1953 but this later appeared unlikely." Unlikely? They had the parts right in front of them and they couldn't (or wouldn't) come to a more definitive statement? Was this because another F-89 was lost over Lake Superior? What were the other jet disappearances and why weren't they revealed in the news story? Perhaps because there were no other military jet aircraft lost over Lake Superior? Or was there one or more military jet aircraft lost that are still secret? I haven't had any luck in my contacts with Transport Canada and Canadian National Defence concerning the identity of these parts. Both organizations indicate they have no records of these parts. It appears that the story of the "found" aircraft parts withered away like a desert mirage. There was no further reports I could find in the Sault Star that referred to this incident, but I can't help feeling that somewhere out there, someone knows
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:08:37 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:49:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Sparks >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:55:36 EST >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:27:20 EST >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:27:47 EST >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:49:44 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:28:40 +0100 >>>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >>>>>>The abduction phenomenon shouldn't be put in the 'dream' >>>>>>category. >>>>>>The phenomenon rests with other complicated sleep disorders, >>>>>>which you can find delineated at the National Library of >>>>>>Medicine (and other venues). >>>>How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >>>>sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >>>>cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking >>>>etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >>>>abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >>>>disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving or >>>>doing other non horizontal activities? >>>The trouble here is that few are claiming that sleep paralysis >>>answers all abduction cases. It does explain some. Besides, >>>there is a type of sleep paralysis that does, in fact, affect >>>people who are wide awake and involved in other "non horizontal >>>activities." It's called cataplexy and before anyone runs off to >>>look it up, I will point out that it is always associated with >>>narcolepsy. No one, as far as I can tell, has ever done any >>>research into the number of abduction witnesses who are also >>>narcoleptic (though I will speculate that the number is quite >>>small). >>Cataplexy occurs during normal sleep not in narcolepsy. It is >>"sleep paralysis." >This seems odd and I'm not sure I understand the point of it. >Cataplexy is associated with narcolepsy, meaning that those >suffering from narcolepsy are those who exhibit the symptoms of >cataplexy. <snip> Let me correct my statement since it came out wrong. Cataplexy is always associated with normal people. Every normal person has multiple episodes of cataplexy every time they enter dream sleep every night of their lives. That is what I meant to say. Cataplexy is the loss of voluntary muscle tone (strength) and ranges in degree of severity all the way up to total loss of voluntary muscle control. When people dream their brains put them into a cataplectic state that is the most severe, i.e., total loss of voluntary muscle control, and this is called Sleep Paralysis. It protects them from hurting themselves in acting out or responding to a dream. Every normal person experiences full cataplexy every day (actually night) of their lives. Since all normal people experience total cataplexy or sleep paralysis when they dream every night, cataplexy is not some unique diagnostic proof of narcolepsy. Cataplexy is not a disease or some sign of pathology, it is just a descriptive medical term for loss of muscle tone or control, which can be perfectly normal (all people have it every night) or it can be abnormal in occurrence (as with narcolepsy). Narcoleptic people get sudden attacks of loss of muscle strength during _daytime_ instead of only at nighttime as normal people do, and it is of varying degrees up to total cataplexy / sleep paralysis, however they remain awake and conscious. If and when narcoleptic people get a _full_ not partial narcoleptic attack during the day they experience full cataplexy or sleep paralysis by definition, and they also dream in this conscious state. These hallucinations are dreams so they are fragmentary and will not resemble the normal UFO abduction experience. What we need to see is evidence of some other kind of sleep disorder or state that produces a kind of free flowing, conscious, fantasy creation that tells a complete story like a UFO abduction, with a start (the UFO abduction), a middle (being brought onboard the UFO, having an exam or whatever), and an end (being returned to earth). Dreams won't cut it. That's my point. >But the point was not to begin a discussion about cataplexy or >narcolepsy, but to point out there is a mechanism that mimics >sleep paralysis that comes in a waking, non horizontal state. Narcolepts only get the dream hallucinations in total loss of muscle control and they fall to the ground if they happen to be standing or sitting. There is no vertical ("non horizontal") state of this kind of narcolpetic dreaming unless they are propped up to remain vertical. >>>The point is that some abductions, but by no means all, can be >>>explained by sleep disorders. >>Where is _my_ point, all deleted now, that UFO abductions >>almost always have beginnings, middles, and ends? Whereas >>dreams are almost always fragmentary with no beginnings or >>endings like an abductee being abducted by aliens, taken >>aboard a UFO, then returned to car or home or wherever. >Because I was responding to a point made by Stan and not to your >point about dreams. It opens the discussion to a whole different >take. Well my point refutes the dream theory and thus remains relevant. >>>>>>Dreams are one thing. Sleep paralysis and narcoleptic incidents >>>>>>have, in the past, produced acounts that are exactly like those >>>>>>of UFO abductees but, because of the different cultures and >>>>>>eras, have the afflicted persons being taken by the hag (a >>>>>>common abductor), spirits of the underworld, and a host of other >>>>>>creatures who slip into one's sleep or unconscious state and >>>>>>"take them away." >>>>I have seen no examples that sleep paralysis has produced >>>>accounts just like abductions any more than magnetic fields >>>>have. >>>Well, then let's take a look around and see if we can find some >>>examples for you. First is Pat Roach, the Utah woman who said >>>that she and a number of her children had been abducted. She >>>said that she awakened, believed there had been an intruder in >>>the house, then called the police. Over the next two years she >>>became convinced that the intruders had been alien creatures. <snip> Let me go right back to your statement Kevin. Read right above. You say Roach "awakened" (no paralysis), thought there was "an intruder in the house" and called the police. Where is there a UFO or a UFO abduction in that statement? Your next statement is that over the next 2 years she "became convinced" that the intruders had been UFO aliens. How did Roach "become convinced"? What or who did that to her? This is not the ordinary UFO abduction case where there is clear waking recollection of a UFO encounter, kidnapping, forced boarding of a UFO and then an exam or whatever and a return to earth, a complete story even if certain memory gaps are allegedly found, the gaps are not like having the crucial events of capture and return being missing from the account (some cases are like that, but not all, and we might need to question whether those are proper "UFO abductions" in the first place if the UFO capture and return are missing in the story). Whereas dreams are typically episodic and fragmentary. >>Where is the "sleep paralysis" with Pat Roach? In the Osborne >>case he woke up "paralyzed" but recalls no abduction into a UFO. >>Where is that here with Roach? Where is the abduction into a >>UFO? >For Pat Roach, it came out of the discussion of her awakening >and believing there was an intruder in the house. It also is >implied in the transcripts from the first of the hypnotic >regression sessions. Is Sleep Paralysis "implied" in the Roach transcripts? Is that what you are referring to here? I'm getting lost here. Why is it only "implied"? Either she says she was paralyzed and could not move, or she didn't. How did she call the police if she was paralyzed since paralysis is not mentioned in your statement? You're saying she "implied" she was paralyzed but how then does she not know that when she calls the police? I understand amnesia and "missing time," what I'm questioning is your original statement which claims as you say "let's take a look around and see if we can find some examples [of Sleep Paralysis UFO abduction cases] for you" and then your first example of Pat Roach had no mention of any Sleep Paralysis or even any UFO! Only now that I question that do you bring those essential elements in, but in a confusing way. >With Osborne, it was Budd Hopkins who produced the testimony in >his books, associating Osborne with the UFOs. And what are the statistics on UFO abductees being paralyzed, what percentage were asleep when kidnapped, etc.? Are these the only 2 cases out of several hundred or possibly 1,000+ UFO abductions where you can cite evidence of some possible Sleep Paralysis? How many cases of paralysis are associated with UFO's or entities employing a device or ray beam that causes the paralysis? >And, I again don't completely understand your point because >Roach talked about being taken into the UFO, she describes the >interior and even told me where the craft had landed. None of this being "taken into the UFO" was in your original paragraph I was responding to (see above in the chevrons >>> for the actual text and see for yourself). That was my question. >The point, once again, was that here were two cases in which >sleep paralysis could have played an important part. That was >what Stan had asked for.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Fleming From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:26:35 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 07:51:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Fleming >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:04:54 -0500 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Maccabee <snip> >I don't buy the "carpet cover up" hypothesis. However, I went to >the ESA site for the original image and found the same stuff. It >is not necessary to blow the images up. Sharp eyes can see some >of these structures in the unblown up image: >http://tinyurl.com/4dokq >Look in the lower left area. A blowup of 2 or 3 of this good >resolution image will show the anomalous images as very slight >variations in brightness. Increasing the contrast will bring out >the structured images. If this isn't some sort of reflection of >the inside the camera then I don't know what causes the faint >structures to appear..... Well, you've proved this wasn't an April Fool's Day hoax as I had originally thought. But I do think these features resemble jpeg artifacts. They're not precisely aligned with the image
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:05:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:39:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:18:14 +0000 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:01:30 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:29:09 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >I think Rich Reynolds has been caught with his bluff down. As >you noted, his failure to ever provide citations that we can all >look at makes it seem likely that he has none. As a professional >abstractor/indexer for most of my adult life - including >American Psychological Association and National Institutes of >Health databases - I get the distinct impression that he doesn't >know what he is talking about when it comes to scientific >databases. UpDaters: To accomodate Richard Hall, Greg Sandow, et al. I've provided "citations" - pro and especially, con - at our blog-site: http://rrrgroup.blogspot.com [and here by ebk]: "Below is a PDF file of an abstract (28 pages) with examples of sleep disorders where the 'victims' relate episodes that mimic the alien abduction phenomenon. This is just one of many, and I mean many, papers dealing with the "psychology" of sleep and how disorders (paralysis, narcolepsy, et cetera) may account for the controversial events told by some whereby they think they've been kidnapped or abducted by alien beings and taken aboard an alien craft (a flying saucer). http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/kenkyu2002/Schegoleva.pdf "
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula - Koi From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:16:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:46:22 -0500 Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula - Koi >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:26:48 EST >Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:29:48 -0800 >>Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula >>Scully's book if I'm not mistaken, was a "bestseller." >>Moreover, most of his "infelicity" came from one man- >>J.P. Cahn; whose motives are dubious. Additionally, >>to disparage (saying this while standing) a man or >>woman's entire body of work because you >>disagree with a portion of it isn't prudent. What is more, >>I've never met any "flippant" Ufologists. >Frank: >Yes, Scully's book sold well out of the gate (to call it a >bestseller is a bit of a stretch), but it's what happened >afterwards that counts. His book was thoroughly repudiated by >both critics and scientists, and then largely ignored by >anyone having anything to do with ufology. As for J. P. Cahn, >I'd be fascinated to hear where you get the allegation that >his motives were "dubious" from. Scully? In fact, Cahn was a >respected reporter, who had done meticulous research into >the Aztec case, something Scully neglected >to do, and it caught up with him. <snip> Hi Paul, List I'm sure Frank will clarify the source for his comment, but I thought it worth mentioning that Scully did indeed cast aspersions on Cahn's motives. (Of course, it is possible to cast aspersions on Scully's motives for casting aspersions on Cahn's motives.) James Moseley (of Saucer Smear fame) discussed Cahn's article with Scully in December 1953, when Newton's trial was underway. Moseley's account of his discussion of Cahn's article appears in "Shockingly Close to the Truth!" (2002) by James Moseley and Karl Pflock (at pages 78-79 (in Chapter 3) of the Prometheus hardback edition) and includes the following: "[Scully] handed me a typewritten rebuttal to Cahn. Essentially, this accused the reporter of sour grapes. It alleged that Cahn had been thwarted when he approached Scully in the hope of building further upon the original story for a book or magazine article and then, failing in that, in an attempt to get Scully to give him an 'I have been duped' story. So Cahn decided to do his own hoax story, which was 'vicious and false' - and even worse before True's editors 'cleaned it up'. I found it more than a little interesting that I'd gotten the same story, almost word for word, from George Adamski". Moseley comments in his book that he told Scully that he thought the story was a hoax, as was "strongly suggested" by the criminal proceedings against Newton and GeBauer. Scully reportedly responded "by alleging that Cahn somehow pressured the Denver district attorney into bringing the fraud charges and that, if the DA didn't have some 'political reason' for pressing the case, it would have ended long ago with the exoneration of Newton and GeBauer. I got the very same line from Adamski". (I note in passing that Paul Kimball's blog quotes from Moseley's notes of the interview in December 1953 after which Moseley concluded that Scully had been duped, and that "he probably knows it; he may even have known about it at the time [he wrote his book], as he is a professional writer and probably not against making money, even on a hoax". However, it is clear to me from Paul's blog if that quote was taken from Moseley book - in which it appears at page 80) in which Paul is probably fully aware of the above, or from another source. The relevant part of Paul's blog from: http://tinyurl.com/54smk ----- Sunday, March 06, 2005 Being Frank About Frank... Scully, That Is He was the man behind Behind the Flying Saucers. But who was he, really? The dupe that got conned by Silas Newton, or the "Dan Rather" of his day? Frank Scully led an interesting and, in many respects, an admirable life. He was active in charitable causes, including the effort to find a cure for muscular dystrophy. He was a good Catholic - so good, in fact, that he was knighted by Pope Pius XII in the Order of St. Gregory the Great, in December, 1956. He knew a great many of the beautiful people of his day, and moved comfortably in their circles. Most significantly, he battled a number of serious physical ailments throughout his life with a sense of optimism and good humour that is best exemplified in his series of Fun in Bed books. However, although he was a fairly prolific writer, he was far from the pre-eminent journalist that the proponents of the Aztec case claim he was - as Scott Ramsey put it, "Scully would be compared to the present day Dan Rather, Peter Jennings, or Tom Brokaw." At the time he wrote Behind the Flying Saucers, he had been writing a weekly column - "Scully�s Scrapbook" - for Variety, a Hollywood trade periodical that was hardly a journal of hard-hitting, serious news, for two decades. While his columns occasionally touched upon serious topics, the vast majority of them dealt with gossip, entertainment insider stories, personal reminiscences, and Scully�s off-the-wall brand of humour. He could probably best be described as an amalgam of modern Hollywood insider Pat O�Brien (Entertainment Tonight) and Jay Leno (The Tonight Show), with a bit of Fox News personality Bill O�Reilly thrown in (albeit with a liberal point of view in Scully�s case). He was certainly no Peter Jennings or Tom Brokaw. The New York Times probably hit closest to the mark in its 1964 obituary of Scully when it referred to his "airy" career as "a professional humorist" possessed of an "acid wit." His motto throughout his career seems to have been epitomized by the following quote, for which he is still well known today - "Why not go out on a limb? Isn�t that where the fruit is?" Scully was far from perfect. There is a great deal of evidence that he would do whatever he had to do to get to "where the fruit is." For example, In 1938 he ran for California�s State Assembly with the reformist slogan "Out of the Gully With Candidate Scully." Although defeated, he was rewarded for his support of Governor Culbert Olson with the position of Secretary in the Department of Institutions. Scully found what he considered to be deplorable conditions in the state�s institutions, such as a Los Angeles school for the blind where, he said, people were receiving harsh treatment from civil servants. Without consulting his superior, well-known psychiatrist Aaron Rosanoff, he set about "correcting" the various abuses he believed existed. Rosanoff fired him, and later charged that affairs in Scully�s office were "unbusinesslike." Scully refused to leave - literally; he encamped in the disputed office with the "protection" of a 300 pound bruiser who had once served a jail term for assault and battery. Eventually, the whole mess wound up in court, with Scully suing Rosanoff and the State of California. He lost at trial, and appealed. In 1942, the appeal was denied. What is interesting is one the causes of action. As Secretary, Scully had been appointed guardian of a number of estates of incompetent persons. The probate court fixed the fees to which the guardian was entitled, in several cases where the person passed away, at a total of $2,650. Scully claimed that he was entitled to the fees! The Court, in a unanimous decision, correctly concluded that the fees were payable to the position, not the person (who was, after all, a salaried employee), and that they were to paid into the State treasury, after which they would be added to the appropriation of the Department of Institutions. This blatant cash grab, and the circumstances surrounding it, do not speak well of Scully�s character. Scully�s penchant for attacking his enemies sometimes got physical. In 1948, at a meeting of the Central Democratic Committee of Los Angeles County in the run-up to the Democratic convention, an argument broke out between supporters of left- wing Democrat Henry Wallace and those who supported Harry Truman. The meeting was getting out of hand when Scully took the floor to try and restore order. "Let�s not divide ourselves to the point where we�re zero," he appealed to his fellow Democrats. "We�re damn near that now." When a man interrupted Scully on a point of order, Scully, who was standing with the aide of his chrome-plated crutches, snapped at him to "Sit down, you mug!" When the man continued, Scully moved to within a few feet of him, hoisted up his right crutch, and whacked him on the shoulder. This pretty much ended the meeting. [There's an amusing photo in Time Magazine of Scully brandishing his club at the man - 26 January 1948, p. 22] A closer look at his life reveals that Scully also had a penchant for "stretching the truth" to his own benefit. For example, in Behind the Flying Saucers, and elsewhere, he claims that he was the author of Frank Harris�s biography of Bernard Shaw. This is a blatant exaggeration, however. As Scully�s friend, the arch-anarchist and writer Alexander Berkman, stated in a letter to Max Nettau in 19 : "It was the secretary of Harris, one Frank Scully, an American journalist, who was to help Harris write the book. Harris wrote about 40,000 words and could not go on. His memory failed and he repeated himself. So Frank Scully took the book in hand and invited me to help him, as he himself is no author, just a journalist." This account was confirmed by an entry in Nellie Harris�s diary for 17 January, 1931, wherein she stated that "Scully wants to employ labour - a competent man who knows how to write because now they have all the material." The man Scully engaged was Berkman. Later, after Harris had died before the book was finished, Shaw himself stepped in to finish the project. He noted in a letter to Victor Gollancz that "The book falls off badly at the end. There are two chapters (one of them commercially libelous) so bad that I think [Harris] must have left them to Scully to write." As Robert Pearsall concludes in his biography of Harris, Scully was a "young opportunist with hopes of cash and fame" whose claims to having ghost-written much of the book are "best ignored from all points of view." Thus, contrary to Scully�s claims, it is clear that no less than four authors had a hand in writing the book - Harris, Berkman, Scully, and Shaw - and that none of the others had a terribly high regard for Scully�s talents as a writer. Scully could also be credulous, and lax when it came to checking alleged facts; Aztec was not the first hoax he had fallen for. A quick check of the Oxford English Dictionary reveals that the longest word in the English language is: "pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis" (hereinafter referred to simply as pneum). The word is a mouthful to be sure, but it is the definition that is the key: "... a facetious word alleged to mean �a lung disease caused by the inhalation of very fine silica dust� but occurring chiefly as an instance of a very long word." [Emphasis added] So, how did this non-word find its way into the English language? In 1935, the National Puzzler�s League, the world�s oldest wordplay association, at its semi-annual meeting, "recognized" pneum as the longest word, replacing "electrophotomicrographically." Scully, who was living in New York at the time, saw the story in the paper, and included the word in his 1936 book Bedside Manner. On the strength of this citation, the word found its way into the major English language dictionaries. It was all a goof by the Puzzlers, and Scully wound up being on the butt end of the joke - not for the last time. Scully also had an over-inflated sense of his own importance. This is evident in much of Scully�s writing (like the claim that he wrote the Shaw biography), but perhaps nowhere more so than in Behind the Flying Saucers and Scully�s subsequent defence of the book. As time went on the story seemed to become more about Scully than flying saucers. For example, in his response to James Moseley�s critique in Nexus, Scully wrote: "Like a pathologist, I dealt with grounded saucers and dead crews. Since then several personal histories, dealing with active saucers and live crews, have been published, and nobody either in or out of the saucerian inquiry has seen fit to hang on the historians the word "hoax". Certainly nobody has gone around saying these historians admitted their story was a hoax. Just why was I singled out for this dubious honor? Is it because "Behind the Flying Saucers" is the keystone of this arch and the enemies of honest research believe if they can knock it down the rest will fall like a house of cards?" [Emphasis added] He continued: "As everybody agrees that the Pentagonians have not given us the whole truth about the saucerian mystery, it must be consoling to them to get a new crop each year to tear down the Scully bastion, and thus, continue to divide and rule." [Emphasis added] The phrase "Scully bastion" combined with later indicators like the title of his part three of his autobiography - In Armour Bright - provide further evidence of just how far Scully�s self- image as a crusading journalist for truth, justice and the American way, went. It is a self-image, built largely on hubris - and accepted for too long by proponents of the Aztec story like William Steinman - that is simply not born out by the facts. Finally, like Wilbert Smith with Sarbarcher�s disinformation, there was one aspect of Scully�s character that trumps all of the above when it comes to explaining his susceptibility to the Aztec con of Newton and Gebauer. Unlike Smith, however, whose weakness was an unquestioning belief in the existence of flying saucers, Scully�s was an inherent distrust of governmental authority. Part of this seems to have stemmed from his own personal experience in reformist politics in the 1930s (at one point, he was hauled in front of the Dies Committee), while the rest may well be the result of his travels and friendships with anti-establishment types like Frank Harris and Alexander Berkman. Whatever the reason, this pre-disposition to view government as "corrupt" and the "enemy" made him particularly receptive to the suggestion of a government cover-up, in this case of flying saucers. Whereas Smith was moved by his pre-existing beliefs to link everything to the existence of flying saucers, Scully, in Behind the Flying Saucers and the material that followed, was more concerned with demonstrating the existence of a government conspiracy. Thus, anyone who questioned his claims was labeled a "Pentagonian stooge," and the leaders of the military as "ambulant Pentagonians, still able to parade around in their salad dressing and hand-tailored uniforms." So - what to make of Frank Scully? My research is ongoing (9 of 25+ years of Variety on microfilm to finish with), but he may have provided a clue, years after he wrote Behind the Flying Saucers, in the form of the "wink, wink - nudge, nudge" style of writing he had perfected over the years at Variety, that he knew the whole thing was a con, perhaps even from the beginning. He still could not, or would not, bring himself to say so directly, but in his autobiography, In Armour Bright, the chapter that deals with Behind the Flying Saucers is titled, tellingly, "Flying Saucers, Where Are You?" Throughout the chapter, Scully maintains that the story was all true. But, at the end, in what would be his final word on the subject (he died a year after the book was published), he concludes not with a last attack on the Pentagonians, or Cahn and True Magazine, or any of his other critics, or with a final defense of the good character of Silas Newton, but with a joke: "There was also a theory advanced that the flying saucers were tossed by Russian discus throwers who didn�t know their own strength. And of course there remains the oldest gag of all: If you haven�t seen a flying saucer and want to, just trip a waitress." This may confirm James Moseley�s original judgement of Frank Scully, formed in December, 1953. After a meeting with Scully in which they discussed the Cahn article, and in which Scully that Behind the Flying Saucers was based on a hoax, denied that Leo Gebauer was Dr. Gee, and defended the credibility and character of Silas Newton, Moseley concluded that Scully had been duped, and that "he probably knows it; he may even have known about it at the time [he wrote his book], as he is a professional writer and probably not against making money, even on a hoax." Had Moseley hit the nail on the head? As Frank Scully himself said in In Armour Bright, when discussing why he no longer had anything to do with flying saucers, "Frankly, by now I�m bored with the subject. Besides, [Behind the Flying Saucers] is now out of print and what author stimulates interest in a book that can�t be had for love or money?" What author indeed? Paul Kimball" ----- Slightly surprisingly, Moseley also managed to interview Silas Newton himself just after his conviction. Moseley stated that he "heard the same story about J P Cahn's True expose that I'd heard from Scully and Adamski (I wondered if all three weren't working from the same script). Newton added the specific figure of his soon-to-be-(but never)-filed libel suit against the magazine: $10 million" (at page 93, in Chapter 4 of "Shockingly Close to the Truth!"). Moseley also mentions a conversation he had with Ruppelt on 16 December 1953 in which Ruppelt reportedly stated that he had spoken with Scully and that Scully did not seem "really mad about Cahn's article, as he pretends to be" (at page 82, in Chapter 3 of "Shockingly Close to the Truth!"). Virtually all of the references I've noted for Cahn's article involve an acceptance of Cahn's points. In case they are of interest, I've summarized two exceptions below: (a) Timothy Green Beckley takes issue with Cahn's article in his "MJ-12 and the Riddle of Hangar 18" (1989) in which Beckley comments: "Foremost among the attackers was one J P Kahn [sic] . He denigrated the two main sources quoted in Scully's work, and smeared Scully himself by innuendo. He called Silas Newton 'a shady oil speculator,' despite all the credentials given in the book which he did not deny." (at pages 37-38 (in Chapter 2) of the Inner Light softcover edition). (b) Charles Berlitz and Bill Moore in their "The Roswell Incident" (1980) refer to "Cahn's somewhat questionable assumption that land fraud was automatically proof of saucer fraud. Although they readily condemned Scully for poor and sloppy research, none of Scully's critics expect Cahn seemed the least bit willing to do any of their own on the case." (at pages 50-51 (in Chapter 3) of the Granada hardback edition (with the same page numbering in the Granada paperback edition)). Paul - I'm sure few on this List would appreciate it if I used up bandwidth by giving a list of references for Cahn's article or Scully's book, but in case any of them are of any use to you I'll email them off-list to you and Frank Warren. Feel free to use, forward or delete them entirely as you see fit.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Secrecy News - 03/31/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:47:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:49:00 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News - 03/31/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 30 March 31, 2005 ** WMD COMMISSION: US INTEL ON IRAQ WAS "DEAD WRONG" ** NSC STAFF REORGANIZATION ** THE MISSING ABU GHRAIB TORTURE IMAGES ** A VISIT TO TWO IRANIAN NUCLEAR FACILITIES WMD COMMISSION: US INTEL ON IRAQ WAS "DEAD WRONG" The Silberman-Robb Commission on WMD Intelligence released its massive report today, which featured blunt criticism of U.S. intelligence agencies and of nearly every aspect of the intelligence production cycle. A copy is posted here: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/wmdcomm.html "We conclude that the Intelligence Community was dead wrong in almost all of its pre-war judgments about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction," the Commission stated in its letter of transmittal to the President. Contrary to some early media reports, the Commission did not absolve the Bush Administration of mishandling or misrepresenting intelligence on Iraq. "We were not authorized to investigate how policymakers used the intelligence assessments they received from the Intelligence Community," the Commission Report said (page 8). President Bush welcomed the report in a White House news briefing, and commended its authors for presenting an "unvarnished" review. http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2005/03/wh033105.html But then the President stated inaptly that "in an age in which we are at war, the consequences of underestimating a threat could be tens of thousands of innocent lives." The whole impetus for the Commission was the fact that intelligence had *overestimated* the threat from Iraq, not underestimated it. Thousands of Americans and many more thousands of innocent Iraqis lost their lives or were seriously injured as a result of the ensuing war. On information policy, the Commission took a particularly aggressive stance against unauthorized disclosures ("leaks") of classified information, but also complained that *authorized* disclosures have compromised intelligence sources and methods as well (pp. 380-383). Two examples of problematic authorized disclosures were offered: Intelligence that is shared with foreign countries (though not the general public), and public announcements of classified satellite launches. Of the various types of satellite launch information that are sometimes disclosed, "time of launch and azimuth are probably the most important for placing the payload in track and providing clues to mission type, followed by booster type/configuration," mused Allen Thomson, an independent space policy analyst. "There are things the government might do to make things more difficult for analysts, particularly in the pre-launch period, but I'm skeptical that they could preclude acquisition and tracking of LEO [low Earth orbit] payloads by such measures without going to a very great deal of trouble and expense," Mr. Thomson said. The Report's strong focus on "leaks" may be due in part to the participation of Commission staff member James B. Bruce, an unsurpassed hawk on leaks who in 2002 memorably stated that "We've got to do whatever it takes - if it takes sending SWAT teams into journalists' homes - to stop these leaks." See: http://www.thememoryhole.org/cia-swat-journalists.htm The Commission presented perfunctory passing criticism of the classification system: "the rules governing classification of national security information are antiquated and overly complex" (p. 443) and cited "persistent incentives for overclassification" (p. 546), but had no other insights or recommendations to offer on the subject. At one point, the Commission itself appeared to succumb to mindless overclassification. Referring (on p. 383) to a December 9, 2002 DCI Directive concerning unauthorized disclosures, the Commission said in a footnote (p. 386, footnote 35) that the Directive's "title [is] classified." The Directive in question is DCID 6/8 and its title is "Unauthorized Disclosures, Security Violations, and Other Compromises of Intelligence Information (SCI)." There is no indication in other government sources that this innocuous title is classified. NSC STAFF REORGANIZATION On Monday, National Security Adviser Stephen J. Hadley circulated a new organizational chart reflecting changes to the structure of the National Security Council staff. Changes in staff structure were made to reflect the President's five national security priorities, two of which are "Winning the war on terror" and "Explaining the President's strategy at home and abroad." The staff reorganization chart was first reported by InsideDefense.com. A copy of "National Security Council Staff Reorganization," March 28, 2005, is here: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2005/03/nsc-reorg.pdf THE MISSING ABU GHRAIB TORTURE IMAGES Last year, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee that he had viewed the contents of three compact disks containing "blatantly sadistic, cruel, and inhuman" acts of torture and abuse committed by some U.S. personnel at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Almost none of those images have been released into the public domain, and they may never be if the government has its way. The Pentagon's successful efforts to deflect Freedom of Information Act requests for disclosure of the images - with identifying features obscured if necessary - are traced by Matt Welch in the latest Reason Magazine. See his article "The Pentagon's Secret Stash: Why we'll never see the second round of Abu Ghraib photos," Reason, April 2005: http://www.reason.com/0504/co.mw.the.shtml Most recently, the Army has said that it has no idea what images are being requested, and that requesters must supply more details. "Please provide the date, location, and names of persons involved in the abuse and we will attempt to conduct a search," wrote Phillip J. McGuire, Director of the Army Crimes Records Center on March 7. A VISIT TO TWO IRANIAN NUCLEAR FACILITIES Iran's President Khatami took reporters on a tour of two Iranian nuclear facilities yesterday, and some of the resulting photographs were helpfully collected by the CIA's Foreign Broadcast Information Service. See "Iranian President Visits Uranium Conversion Facility of Esfahan," Iranian Students News Agency, March 30, 2005: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/nuke/esfahan.html and "Tehran TV Shows Khatami Visiting Natanz Nuclear Facility," Vision of the Islamic Republic of Iran Network 1, March 30, 2005: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/nuke/natanz.html The Bush Administration dismissed the tour as "a staged media event." "If there was a commitment to transparency, there are ways - there are real, effective, meaningful ways to demonstrate that commitment beyond a staged media event like is being reported," said State Department spokesman Adam Ereli yesterday. _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Biogenic Potentials - Engineering Natural Machines From: Rob Kritkausky <robkrit.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:53:01 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:52:51 -0500 Subject: Biogenic Potentials - Engineering Natural Machines I thought this might of interest, as some of earth's ancient monuments, as well as many rocks on Mars have this same varnish. (excerpt from e-mail written to the research group working here) It would seem the more prodding one does in regards to this interesting location, the more anomalies one finds. While researching the area's geology, particularly the dark varnish found on the local rocks, I found some studies that had actually been done using actual rocks from this location. Rock samples were tested from around the globe and 74 different forms of oxidizing bacteria were identified. All were Gram-positive, with the exception coming from a sample taken from a location in North Phoenix called Deem Hills (our site) and Painted Rock. Now what I found to be even more interesting, is the fact that the bacteria found happens to be Pedomicrobium. This Gram- Negative bacteria has recently been the subject of some interesting studies' which include speculation on whether it is a terrestrial or extraterrestrial life-form http://www.andrewgray.com/essays/lifeinss.htm as well as its strange interaction with gold, which almost seems to be a form of alchemy, but it's actually just an unexplained ability to filter water and extract gold from it. http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/trek/4wd/Over44.htm Deem Hills samples were unusual in both their content and quantity for both Gram-negative and Gram Positive Bacteria. While the exact mechanism for the production of Rock varnish is still unknown, an interesting view of its structure and content is presented. We have a very thin layered substrate that incorporates areas and layers of a biogenic material that can react in an interesting way with the manganese found in the varnish (up to 20% of its content). Manganese is a transition metal with nine valence states (most on the periodic table) and an interesting ability to cooperate with some bacteria as they oxidize a host. The Mn is able to accept extra electrons from the bacteria, transforming it into the variant Mn4, which is insoluble. It can even shed the electron via other chemical reactions. Also this Pedomicrobium, with its specific attraction to gold, would seem consistent with properties we might attempt to engineer into a lifeform's DNA. It is at this point where one can see some interesting similarities with some engineered human technology, which is the circuit board/computer chip......complete with a memory mechanism(0 -1 byte set)(MN2, MN4) http://www.psi.edu/~rperry/perry/Biomarkers.pdf As we enter the age of Nanotechnology and genetic engineering, I find myself wondering if our technology will evolve to a point where we will utilize/create certain natural potentials similar to the scenario above, as we strive to increase the control we have of our environment. Regards, Rob Kritkausky
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: The Kinross Incident - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:03:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 09:35:47 -0500 Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident - Hatch >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:26:31 EST >Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith - Sparks >>From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:49:40 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith ><snip> >>research into flying saucers, was the same day that a US Air >>Force jet and crew were possibly captured by a confounded >>"flying saucer" and sent into oblivion. >Pieces of the jet were found several months later. Hi Brad: Pieces of the jet found later? That slipped past me somehow, and its important. Can you verify this? Links or whatever?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:32:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:46:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Dickenson >From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:58:24 +1000 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >I agree with the others; looks like an imaging artifact. <snip> >So you've got (at least) two digitisation effects going on: <snip> >So yet another Martian anomaly claim bites the dust..... <snip> Mr Holman went from a subjective personal opinion - to a firm conclusion - to a dismissal of data from consideration, in three paragraphs, all without further detailed analysis of that data. He wasn't alone. This subject has exposed the knee-jerk debunkers yet again. With more intelligence (and scientific integrity):- Nick Balaskas [Tue 29th] - noted that if image was 'processing artifact' then _non-matching_ 'processing artifacts' would appear in other pictures of same area; Bruce Maccabee [Wed 30th] pointed out that if image was a 'camera artifact' then the same artifact would appear in _all_ shots from that camera (under identical conditions); Eleanor White [30th] observed that if image was a pixelation-artifact of any kind then same effects (in one form or another) would be found over the _entire_ original image. To quote Giorgio De Santillana - "That this had to be stressed explicitly reveals the steady decline of scientific ethics." ("Hamlet's Mill) Cheers Ray D "I believe that major revolutions are required in our physical understanding."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Moon Fountain UFOs From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:40:48 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:48:22 -0500 Subject: Moon Fountain UFOs NASA may (?) have inadvertently explained some Moon Astronaut UFO sightings and some UFOs caught on live camera from previous missions. http://tinyurl.com/3ms3v Dust particles rise from the Moon and diffract the Sun's light under Solar Wind electro static charge. The page also says that water particulates from the dark side of some craters may also fountain with the dust. I am not taken to de bunking but it seems a verified explanation for some UFOs seen?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:48:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:51:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Maccabee >From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:58:24 +1000 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:09:44 -0500 >>Subject: Mars Desert Excavations >>They better have a good explanation for what appears in the >>lower left of the Hale Crater on Mars. See: >>http://tinyurl.com/5yxuj >>for the story. >I agree with the others; looks like an imaging artifact. Other >than the obvious pixellation, the fact that the orientation of >the supposed features seems to align pretty well with the >borders of the image is, to me, strongly suggestive of this - >that's what you'd expect from a digitised image. They don't >align with the borders of the JPEG, as you might normally >expect, but that's because the image is in stereo, and is viewed >from an angle. In fact, it's not really a direct image of the >Martian surface at all, but rather a visualisation from a >particular perspective of a digital elevation model computed >from stereo images. >So you've got (at least) two digitisation effects going on: >those in the original images, and those from the computation of >the DEM. Problems might also arise from the combining of the >stereo images as well. See the URL below for some information >about the whole process, and the actual images the stereo image >is derived from. >http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/first/24.11.2004_eng.shtml >And looking at the original images, I can't see any sign of the >claimed structures. So yet another Martian anomaly claim bites >the dust..... Yup. The intriguing periodic "images", square shapes, etc. don't appear in the straight-down-view initial color image available at the above URL. One can see the expected random slight variations in brightness that might seem to be evidence of "structures" at the scale size of a few pixels. These variations result from "chopping" the brightness variations of the actual scene into digital levels. However, there are no relatively large area (covering dozens of pixels in size) faint periodic
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:49:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:57:25 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Maccabee >From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:19:00 +0000 >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:29:31 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico <snip> >>It may be the top UFO story for 2004 in Mexico, but it has yet >>to be proven that a "flotilla" of UFOs was in the vicinity of >>the airplane. Anyone willing to take the time to read my >>detailed analysis will find that the initial radar target can be >>classified as a"True UFO" assuming no one comes up with an >>explanation (I am aware of no credible explanation). >>Since then identifications as ground lights - including oil >>field fires - have been proposed. The only way to refute or >>confirm these hypotheses would be to carry out a simple > >>experiment with the same airplane and FLIR system, namely, >>re-fly the flight or something similar - as I suggested >>directly to an AF representative. This has not been done. >Just as an additional information in case you are not aware of. >The Mexican Air Force has continued flying over that area as >well as other areas of southern Mexico as part of their >permanent antidrugs program, missions that have been performed >for years in my country and has been increased during this >administration. >Never before or after the March 5, 2004 incident the Mexican Air >Force has experienced, witnessed or encountered a similar >phenomena nor similar objects or lights invisible to their eyes >but detected by radar and FLIR systems. The mysterious >lights/objects have not appeared again even that they are aware >of this incident and alert to detect a new apparition. This has >been reported and confirmed, period. >Therefore we have our own confirmation of the March 5, 2004 UFO >incident as legitimate. What you seem to be saying is that the Mexican AF has, more or less, duplicated the conditions in the 5 MAR 04 flight, although perhaps not exactly. This is important information, but not completely convincing without information on the conditions of the flights that might have approximately duplicated the 5 MAR 04 flight. The optical conditions on 5 MAR 04 and the exact location of the plane flight path might have been a one-time occurrence of conditions favorable for "seeing (in the infrared) distant ground lights. On the other hand, maybe the AF has flown a similar flight under near identical optical conditions and not detected ground sources like the oil field fires. If that is so, the AF could issue a specific statement to the effect that numerous flights in the same area under comparable conditions have failed to detect oil fires or other ground source. >The Mexican Air Force is a military >institution that will not, under any circumstance condition >their programs, activities and duties to a request of a civilian >for purposes not related to a national interest. They have >higher priorities and will not subject themselves to prove >anything based on this premise, we understand this perfectly and >accept it as part of the proccess. >To expect the Mexican Air Force or any other Air Force in the >world to perform some test flight altering their programs just >to prove a real UFO encounter took place is just an illusion and >most probably will never happen. We must keep on mind what we >are talking here and the consequences of every meassure taken. Perhaps the AF would not duplicate the flight, but what you have written above is a statement that they have essentially done that by flying many surveillance flights in the same area under comparable weather conditions and have never seen the supposed ground lights other than on 5 MAR 04. If this is true, it is important evidence and one would think that the AF would be willing to say it for the record even if no test flight is done. >However the Air Force officials have been kind enough to inform >us about their observations and findings during their subsequent >surveillance flights over that area but as a courtesy and in the >understanding that these are not official reports, just >informations given to us as part of our direct communication in >this new established relationship. It would be nice if the AF would issue a press release or allow for interviews similar to what happened when the event was announced to the world last April/May. >We understand and accept our compromise with the Air Force, This >relationship will be mantained following their rules and >designs. They keep their leadership and command above all acts >in this proccess and are willing to mantain the communication >line open and the cooperation active but under their rules, this >is understood and accepted. >We are optimistic that important advances are coming to our >Mexican UFO research with this trascendental communication line >open. But most of our research issues will be kept just for >ourselves in our own Mexican circles. We have our goals and it's >our own privilege. As I have indicated in the detailed analysis - at my web site and which was sent to the Mexican AF last summer - and is mentioned in my previous message, the lights were farther away than the clouds and hence were 10 or more miles from the plane.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Re: Recommendations For Field Research Equipment - From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:50:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:59:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Recommendations For Field Research Equipment - >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:17:45 EST >Subject: Recommendations For Field Research Equipment >I'm on a shopping spree and am headed to the electronic store to >snag up some new goodies. >Already bought new computers and communications equipment and >was about to buy a new camcorder but said to myself let me ask >around first. >Also, cell phone carriers and companies. >We all have our favorite brands but UFO research is unlike any > >other because one has to have a good grasp on the various >sciences as well as good interviewing skills. >I don't often see recommendations for products and services that >stand the test. I'ld like to hear some. >As for me, camcorders are first. Digital, resilient good >customer service plans.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 1 Resignation Of MUFON Canada's National Director From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:30:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:04:00 -0500 Subject: Resignation Of MUFON Canada's National Director Dear List: Please take note that, effective immediately, I have resigned as the National Director of Canada for the Mutual UFO Network, Inc., MUFON. Further, please note that Chris Styles has resigned as the Canadian Director of Investigations for MUFON. The Canadian Aerial Anomalies Research Society, founded by Chris and I, was incorporated in Nova Scotia on April 30, 2004. Both Chris and I wish to concentrate our time and efforts in developing this new society, and we plan to immerse ourselves full time in the projects we have planned under its banner. This post is so that anyone who sends UFO sighting reports to me or Chris will know that, in the future, these reports will not be going to MUFON as they normally would have, but will now instead be entered into the database of the Canadian Aerial Anomalies Research Society.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 The Secret Of Roswell From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:12:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:12:17 -0500 Subject: The Secret Of Roswell Source: Phenomena Magazine http://tinyurl.com/4dtlc Friday, April 1, 2005 The Secret Of Roswell By: Stuart Miller News Editor As the editor of an e-zine (UFO Review), I do occasionally receive unsolicited material in the post or by email, which if appropriate, goes straight into the mag. A month ago I received something which totally took my breath away but I have been sitting on it ever since, unsure what to do with it exactly. It needs checking. It came in the post, a bulky manila A4 envelope post marked the Philippines, containing 32 photo-copied pages, 30 of which were photographs. And what photos! The other two pages were a closely typed explanation of what I was looking at plus some back ground information. The letter was on plain paper with no identification of origin or sender. It had obviously been composed on a word processor. In the mid 90s, as a result of public pressure, the U.S. government in the shape of the GOA launched an investigation into Roswell and concluded it was a Mogul balloon that had crashed near the infamous town in New Mexico. During the course of their investigation, they were told that the majority of official documents on the matter could not be found. For those taking an interest in the process, that news was greeted with cynical knowing. In fact, it would have been a major bombshell if any �smoking gun� had surfaced and disappointing though it was, the fact that nothing was uncovered was really only to be expected. The package I received related to Roswell and in particular, to those missing files. What the writer of the letter alleged was that there was indeed plenty of material on the Roswell incident and that it could be found in the National archives, if only you knew where to look. This is the story that the letter told. In 1951, President Truman, concerned with the fragmented manner in which the aftermath of the Roswell incident had developed, and having lost track of a sense of the timing and events and actions involved, demanded that the Air Force provide him with a complete documentary summary of the whole affair. Being well aware of the significance the event had taken on and how his military had responded to it and the fact that there was a possibility he might be lied to, if only by omission, he issued a series of personal and career threats to the very senior military officials tasked with assembling the report, insisting that he be told the whole truth. He was. The report was prepared and presented to him. It fell to Jean LeNoir, who was responsible for filing in the Truman office, to dispose of the file afterwards and this is where the fun and games started. Using her own initiative, she divided the file into three sections and recorded them under completely inappropriate designations. One ended up in an agricultural section, another was inserted into a forestry section, and the third ended up in a subdivision devoted to American relations with Paraguay. Besides LeNoir, three other people knew what she had done and where the files could be found. They told no one. Well, actually, someone must have said something at some point, because presumably that is how I came to be in possession of a photo copy of one of those files; the photographs taken by the official military photographer of the scene at the Roswell crash site. It is of course possible that I am the victim of a bizarre hoax and that all this material is faked but if it is, then it is a thing of beauty in itself. If it�s real, then its awe inspiring. Truly. I�ll tell you straight away that I am not going to reproduce any of the photos here for this article. I�m not prepared to make a complete fool of myself just yet. I have set certain activities in motion to determine the validity of what I have been sent and that will take time. Only when that process is complete, regardless of whether the pictures are real or fake, will I then release them into the public domain. The pictures clearly display a classic saucer shaped disc, intact, lying on the ground. There are close up photos of the craft as well as interior shots and so they were obviously able to get inside. My best guesstimate is that the craft is about 40 feet long and maybe half as tall. I will tell you that there is clearly visible lettering, not in English, written on the sides. It looks like hieroglyphics. On one photo of the craft showing the lettering, someone has scribbled on a print, �Anoitos, Mera enas�. One assumes that is a translation but I can�t be sure. In some ways though the craft is almost incidental, for there are two other things that really catch the eye as you look at the prints. The first is that you simply cannot escape the picture of chaos, fear and intense excitement on the faces of the twenty military personnel (that I counted) as they are pictured around the area. Everyone seems to be running, shouting, holding things up, all clearly in a highly emotional tense and strained state. One man appears to be crying. This image of very strong mental disturbance amongst the soldiers is so powerful when you look at it that it leaps off the paper at you. If that alone was sufficient in deciding whether the pictures were real or not, then it would be a slam dunk. The other images that you cannot tear your eyes away from are perhaps obvious. Lying side by side on the ground are five alien corpses. And amazingly, there are pictures of two live aliens who had obviously survived, being given medical attention. But what aliens! These look like nothing you�ve ever imagined and certainly very different to the ones shown being dissected in the alien autopsy film. Initially, there is slight disappointment. They look like humans or pretty much so. They appear to be of average human height with limbs and head in general proportion to ours. They have hair and they all appear to be different in the same way that human features are different. But there are markings on the head, scale-like almost, and in the centre of the forehead is what seems like a crest or even a brand of some sort embedded in the skin. The markings are identical on each individual. It is the mark of a fish. It is only in one shot that you see something that really makes you take notice. One alien is lying on his side and from his coccyx one can clearly see a tail! About two feet long and with
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Not Even Presidents Know The Truth! From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:16:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:16:38 -0500 Subject: Not Even Presidents Know The Truth! Source: Phenomena Magazine http://tinyurl.com/4eqob Friday, April 1, 2005 The Fitzgerald Files Not Even Presidents Know The Truth! By: Randall Fitzgerald By: Phenomena Senior Editor A few decades ago, outside the main CIA headquarters building in Langley, Virginia, I was visiting on journalistic business and saw this statement inscribed in stone: "And the Truth Shall Set You Free." The irony of such an inscription on a bastion of secrets and secretive people came back to mind recently when I read two-term U.S. President Bill Clinton's daily diary (billclintondailydiary.blogspot.com) and this rather curious and enigmatic entry posted by him on January 6, 2005, reproduced here verbatim: "I was on the inside of government, so I know there is more out there than meets the eye. You know, when I was elected, but before I was inaugurated, someone, a total stranger, whom I met on the street asked me to look into Area 51 and Aliens in Roswell, New Mexico. I laughed, but decided to buy a book about the subject. It was very interesting. I asked my good friend Webster Hubbell to investigate the matter. When Hillary talked about the vast right wing conspiracy, she was mocked. Maybe the conspiracy wasn't a right wing one, but something else. I never did get a clear answer about Area 51 from the ones with the security clearance. And I was the President. More than that you know what happened to me during my second term. And you know what happened to Hubbell. He died. Sometimes you shouldn't ask questions why, you just have to accept reality." While there is some debate on the web as to whether the foregoing entry and the entire Clinton blog constitute a hoax, it is a matter of public record that Webster Hubbell, the U.S. Attorney General during Clinton's first term in office, reportedly came up against the 'you don't need to know' stone wall that career bureaucrats at the higher levels of government erect around the more sensitive state secrets. Beyond that, if the blog entry is accurate, my inclination is to disregard Clinton's insinuation that a UFO coverup conspiracy might be responsible for his public humiliation in the Lewinsky affair and for Webster Hubbell's death by natural causes. That sort of stretching by innuendo simply muddies the waters for truthseekers. That Clinton would allude to a 'conspiracy' being "something else" other than what it seems may not surprise those who remember Clinton's 1992 Democratic convention acceptance speech, in which he praised his mentor at Georgetown University, professor of history Carrell Quigley. Author of books about 'the way the real world works,' Quigley was often branded a 'right- wing conspiracy theorist' for describing how a power elite manipulates most governments of the world. This elite coalesced around groups such as The Bilderbergers, The Trilateral Commission and similar money and power cliques. Quigley, however, fancied himself as a liberal internationalist whose only real quarrel with this power elite was over its penchant for secrecy. CLINTON IS IN GOOD COMPANY Trying to penetrate federal government secrecy is a quest that has cut across political and ideological divides since World War II. For a 1979 article on conspiracy theories (including Roswell) that I researched and wrote for The Washington Post Magazine, I interviewed Charles Lombard, a former CIA employee, who was then the special assistant for science to U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Sen. Goldwater, as you may recall, had been the Republican Party candidate for President in 1964, losing to Lyndon Johnson. Before that, Goldwater had been a colonel in the U.S. Air Force. He had a longstanding interest in the subject of UFOs. I had heard that Goldwater tried to gain entry to a Wright-Patterson (Ohio) Air Force Base facility in the belief it might be holding debris from a crashed extraterrestrial spaceship, so I asked Lombard to query his boss about the rumor. In a written statement released to me, Goldwater said: "I asked General Curtis LeMay (head of the Strategic Air Command in the 1960s) if I could go in a room there at Wright-Patterson that was called either the Green Room or the Blue Room, because I thought that was where they kept UFO records. And Curtis LeMay said, 'you can't go in there and I can't go in there.' But he would never say what was in the room. LeMay never affirmed or denied that UFO records or material were in the room." Lombard told me that he and Goldwater were both perplexed by this incident. "We don't know why the senator was refused admittance. He has a top secret clearance. If there is a departmental clearance for UFOs, I've never heard of it." In a 1994 interview with CNN television host Larry King, Goldwater elaborated: "I think that at Wright-Patterson, if you could get into certain places, you'd find out what the Air Force and the government does know about UFOs. Reportedly, a spaceship landed. It was all hushed up. I called curtis LeMay and I said, 'General, I know we have a room at Wright-Patterson where you put all this secret stuff. Could I go in there?' I've never heard him get mad, but he got madder than hell at me, cussed me out, and said, 'Don't ever ask me that question again!'" Goldwater took the mystery of his encounter with General LeMay to his grave. Numerous other political officeholders have made similar attempts to shake the entrenched bureaucracy for UFO secrets with only limited success. Most noteworthy was President Jimmy Carter, who had filed a UFO report based on a sighting he had while governor of the state of Georgia. Permit me to offer an insight from personal experience into the mindset of high-level career bureaucrats, the Gatekeepers who can thwart the will of elected officials. During 1983, I was hired by a Presidential Commission to direct a team of lawyers and investigators and to co-write, based on our research, a report to President Ronald Reagan about the Executive Branch of government and how it interacted with the U.S. Congress. We were supposed to receive unfettered access to the top career civilian officials of every cabinet level department, including the Department of Defense and the Department of Energy. We carried a letter from President Reagan ordering their cooperation. While we did receive the appearance of cooperation, at least when it served the bureaucrat's interests, what we really got was a civics lesson on how government really operates from the inside. After confronting one high-level official about his obfuscation and intransigence, he decided to confide in me the following: explanation "Elected officials come and go every election like snowflakes. After they are gone, I am still here. Politicians cannot be trusted with secrets. They tell their spouses, or their staffers, or their friends. Which means the media bloodhounds will eventually pick up the scent." This bureaucratic mindset gives us a clue about where to focus attempts to pry loose any remaining government UFO secrets. There are a few dozen 'gatekeepers' of information in the intelligence agencies and Defense Department. Identify the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Alfred's Odd Ode #386 From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 05:16:29 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:23:40 -0500 Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #386 Alfred's Odd Ode #386 March 31, 2005 The Test What's gone around has come around that 'circle' some contrive (while some are smeared for bullies so a bully's _not_ defined). The 'newborns' nip the ankles of the 'aged', teething teeth, and proffer antique questions like the "first" time's re-released. These 'already' have their answers so they're bellicose and smirking, but the ground must quake beneath them... bad comportment's not, remotely, working! These new-guys use a sabre of impatience, I suspect. They have that youthful vigor of the outraged and perplexed. They revive hypocrisies, discounted in the past, pretend them new, re-prosecute... and so run right out of gas. Intransigent and churlish, they would persecute respect, and so like a child betrayer... trade their favor for, a sad, neglect. But they have purpose, unremitting, which remains to see them through! They're righteous in their outrage - if conflicting points of view. They _are_ betrayed and shortchanged but their aim has gone awry. It's the engines of our culture they should discount and decry. The 'old' guys are new scapegoats for a 'young' guy's dearth of depth... they fight anew old battles... but forget to pause for, needed, breath. Rudiak's "demented" for construction and detail? He's, in fact, too-well criticized for covering subjects well. His "Ramey stuff" is smoking gun where Printy's powder's wet, 'smart lawyers' wade assumptive-ness... and cross a line? You bet. The quandary of Dave's hecklers is their failure to provide a counter golf-swing good enough to contradict their, facile, lie. Hall's an ancient hard-nose? It remains he wrote the book. He's chronicled the features of a long, hard... _hoary_ look. He can be forgiven, then, impatience some deride as they prosecute their ignorance on the shoulders he'd provide. He's earned in spades the accolades that he still does without... He _is_ "the old man down the road" that "Creedence" sang, so well, about. Clark's a snob elitist and an ET plutocrat? There's precious little value in ones thinking such as that. Like those preceding indicate (in decades of our time), of _that_ there is no evidence, small reason, and ill-rhyme. An honored man won't suffer fools who beg to be corrected, then prattle an 'inconsequence' to keep their ass's 'face' protected... ... Now, stand with me in desert's dark sans city-light or shine. The air is cold and dry and stark... a moment froze in time... The starfield is... immense... out there, a billion shards of light... bedazzling us with brilliance born from red and blue burned bright. There is no cloud or moon to hide this grandeur... halting breath... It _is_ the bald antithesis of darkness... and even ageless death... A million, million points of white... all glitter in your view. They symbolize near endless time producing me and you. They _are_ the... pressure cookers... of the matter that we mind, the ageless 'life' of living things considers what it finds. Down 'here' produced are 'people'... some are humans that we know, but crows and whales and wolves and bees, much loved by us? Well, frankly, no. Now pick _one_ star, just _any_ star. Pick _one_ from all the millions! The 'space' that star must mask from view...(?) a trifling, spatial minion. Now take that _minion's_ picture, then blow it up all huge... A photograph to stop your heart, a change for _all_ your views. It's not mere stars you're seeing as the picture fills your eyes! It's billions of new _galaxies_... as STARS within _that_ striking sky! Now tell me we're 'alone' in this, or the state of God's proud art! We bejewel creation's crown, or light a sad Earth's fart? It's clear we're pre-pubescent (...if passed from wombs at all!). It's clear our 'immaturity' could insure our failing fall. It's clear in layered evidence we're pompous, insincere... but UFOs remain _extant_ and are our new frontier! They are the _best_ 'sedition' if you think on it at all. That's why the 'man' _ignores_ them, plying hurdle, screen, and stall! They're why we have an 'info' void well larded with the smirks of skeptibunky charlatans and other funded jerks. They're _why_ we're in denial... they're _why_ we are 'regressed'... they _prove_ our 'fubar' culture... they'd illustrate our failed test. alienview.nul -:|:-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:32:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:26:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Ledger >From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:58:24 +1000 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:09:44 -0500 >>Subject: Mars Desert Excavations >>They better have a good explanation for what appears in the >>lower left of the Hale Crater on Mars. See: >>http://tinyurl.com/5yxuj >>for the story. >I agree with the others; looks like an imaging artifact. Other >than the obvious pixellation, the fact that the orientation of >the supposed features seems to align pretty well with the >borders of the image is, to me, strongly suggestive of this - >that's what you'd expect from a digitised image. They don't >align with the borders of the JPEG, as you might normally >expect, but that's because the image is in stereo, and is viewed >from an angle. In fact, it's not really a direct image of the >Martian surface at all, but rather a visualisation from a >particular perspective of a digital elevation model computed >from stereo images. >So you've got (at least) two digitisation effects going on: >those in the original images, and those from the computation of >the DEM. Problems might also arise from the combining of the >stereo images as well. See the URL below for some information >about the whole process, and the actual images the stereo image >is derived from. >http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/first/24.11.2004_eng.shtml >And looking at the original images, I can't see any sign of the >claimed structures. So yet another Martian anomaly claim bites >the dust..... Hi Brett, Still I'm not convinced of obvious pixelization as the culprit even though I mentioned it myself. For one thing many of the pixels don't line up either vertically or horizontally with one another, stereo image or not. It looks like some kind of mottling as seen through a polarizing filter. I wonder if this might have something to do with the tinting on the camera lens. As well, on some of the very steeply sloped terrain where the albedo is high, the effect doesn't seem to show up and seems concentrated in one area of the image of the crater. I'm not suggesting these are farmlands on Mars or anything but this should be definitely laid to rest as to cause, so that we have something to use later on if it comes up in other photos. Then we can say "Ah yes, the Maccabee effect...I've seen this
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 The Texas Ghost Lights Conference From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:22:14 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:34:33 -0500 Subject: The Texas Ghost Lights Conference I have been asked to forward this to this List by Nick Redfern The Texas Ghost Lights Conference The Marfa Lights in West Texas and the Bragg Light of the Big Thicket, Texas have inspired countless legends of restless spirits. But there is a growing body of evidence that, far from being mere curiosities, or the stuff of folklore, the Texas mystery lights constitute a genuine scientific anomaly. Whether they are called fireballs, ghost lights, spook lights, earth lights, or mystery lights, these unexplained spooky luminosities are surprisingly numerous. Lights of unknown origin are known to recur in specific locations in North Carolina, Missouri, California, Washington, Louisiana, and Arkansas. Ghost light locations in the British Isles, Norway, Japan, and Australia have also been extensively documented. Investigators regard the lights as a little understood aspect of the earth's electromagnetic energy field. But they could be a global phenomenon of paradigm-shifting significance. They sometimes behave peculiarly, as if they are interacting with human observers like curious animals. This may be why the ancient Celtic peoples regarded the lights as fairies, and why the shamans of some cultures sought out the locations of the lights as entrances to the spirit world. Recurring ghost lights could hold clues to a dimension of Nature that is rarely even suspected in the modern age. Texas is likely to play a key role in emerging earth mysteries research. According to Japanese physicist Dr. Yoshi-Hiko Ohtsuki, there are more sightings of mystery lights in Texas than anywhere else in the world. On June 11, Natural Awakenings - Austin, with the association of Anomaly Archives, will present "The Texas Ghost Lights Conference" from 2:00 - 8:00 pm at the First Unitarian Universalist Church at 4700 Grover in Austin. You will learn the latest about this curious phenomenon from four leading authorities on ghost lights, complete with photographs and video displays. Renowned British author, lecturer, and broadcaster, Paul Devereux, is an experienced researcher dealing mainly with consciousness studies and ancient sacred sites. He is the author of Earth Lights Revelation, Fairy Paths & Spirit Roads, Re- Visioning the Earth, and numerous other scholarly articles and books. He will explain why the lights have much to teach our physicists and remarkable lessons to teach all of us. Nick Redfern lives in Dallas and is the author of the best- selling books, A Covert Agenda; The FBI Files; Cosmic Crashes; Strange Secrets; Three Men Seeking Monsters; and the forthcoming Body Snatchers In The Desert. Nick has uncovered intriguing official British Government files on unidentified luminous phenomena and ghost lights that date back nearly a century, and will be discussing this never-before-seen data at the conference. James Bunnell is the author of two books on the Marfa Lights, Seeing Marfa Lights and Night Orbs. He is an aeronautical and mechanical engineer and retired in 2000 from BAE Systems as Director of Mission Solutions for U.S. Air Force Programs. He will present a fascinating video slide show of photographs taken from two monitoring stations he set up that illustrate his contention that the Marfa Lights constitute a deep-rich- fascinating mystery that never ceases to amaze those who take time to investigate. Rob Riggs is the Editor of Natural Awakenings - Austin, the author of In the Big Thicket: Exploring Nature's Mysterious Dimension, and contributed chapters on unexplained phenomena, ancient mysteries and the Texas Ghost Lights in Weird Texas, to be published later this year by Barnes & Noble. He has appeared on Art Bell's Coast to Coast and numerous radio shows discussing the ghost lights and other mysteries of the Big Thicket. S. Miles Lewis of the Anomaly Archives (lending library of the Scientific Anomaly Institute) will be the moderator of the event, which will include a panel discussion and question and answer session.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 PRG/X-Conference 2005 Press Release - April 4 2005 From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 06:01:34 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:38:54 -0500 Subject: PRG/X-Conference 2005 Press Release - April 4 2005 PRG Paradigm Research Group X-Conference 2005 Press Release - April 4, 2005 Washington, DC - PRG announced today the final speaker lineup for the 2nd Annual Exopolitics Expo - X-Conference 2005 - to be held at the Hilton Gaithersburg Hotel outside of Washington, DC on April 22-24. In a rare appearance on the East Coast, Jaime Maussan, the most popular journalist in the nation of Mexico, will present the most comprehensive review ever of events ongoing in Mexico since 1991 - perhaps the greatest geographic concentration of extraterrestrial-related phenomena in history - by the man at the center of it all. Extensive and extraordinary new footage will be shown including the surveillance video record associated with the 2004 release by the Mexican Department of Defense. The exopolitical implications of mass sightings in a nation bordering the United States are profound. Also, another important lecture has been added for Saturday, April 23. Grant Cameron and Stephen Bassett are co-authors of a manuscript with the working title, U.S. Presidents and the Politics of Disclosure. That manuscript is 450 pages in length with 550 footnotes. A book proposal was presented to three dozen publishers by a top New York literary agent. The typical response: "Great proposal, but we couldn't do this book." Translation: "It's too controversial". Grant Cameron is going to go into the most controversial aspects of this book in waiting. This material is at the center of exopolitics. Full speaker information is posted in the Speaker section at the conference website via the web portal at www.x-conference.com. PRG also indicated today a press conference is being scheduled at the National Press Club, 13th Floor, 14th and F Streets, NW, Washington, DC to make a number of news announcements associated with X-Conference 2005. It will be open to the public. Exact time and room location will be posted shortly in the Press section at the X-Conference website. Stephen Bassett will lead a panel which will include Grant Cameron, Richard Dolan, Michael Salla, PhD; and Alfred L. Webre, JD. The X-Conference is a unique event which focuses on the political, governmental and social aspects relating to extraterrestrial-related phenomena. It is produced by PRG as part of the ongoing activist movement seeking to end the truth embargo. Thirty lecturers and panelists will present. Registration information can be found at the conference website via the web portal at: www.x-conference.com or by phone at 202-215-8344. The full speaker and panelist lineup now includes: Walter H. Andrus, Jr.; Monsignor Corrado Balducci (Italy); Stephen Bassett; Commander Graham Bethune; Grant Cameron; David Coote; James Courant; Don Daniels; Paul Davids; James Deardorff, PhD; Richard Dolan; Ann Druffel; Robert Durant; Stanton Friedman (Canada); Charles James Hall; Paola Harris (Italy); John Greenewald, Jr.; Michael Heiser, PhD; Lynne D. Kitei, MD; Melinda Leslie; Bruce Maccabee, PhD; Jaime Maussan (Mexico); Michael Salla, PhD (Australia); Richard Sauder, PhD; David Sereda; Alfred Webre, JD (Canada); Robert Wood, PhD; Ryan Wood. Contact: Stephen Bassett Executive Director 202-215-8344 ________________________________________________________ Paradigm Research Group E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul URL: www.paradigmclock.com Cell: 202-215-8344 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 _________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Astronomy Weekend Looks To Debunk Alien From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:18:26 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:41:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Astronomy Weekend Looks To Debunk Alien >Source: Pittsurgh Review-Tribune >http://tinyurl.com/7xtoj >March 31, 2005 >Astronomy Weekend Looks To Debunk Alien Stereotype >By Candy Williams >For those whose idea of alien life on other planets involves >little green men and flying saucers, David Grinspoon wants to >set the record straight. >"Everybody is fascinated by the possibilities of >extraterrestrial life. We're all seeking a connection to a >larger universe. Unfortunately, the Martian image has been >burned into our culture," says Grinspoon, an award-winning >author and scientist for Southwest Research Institute of >Boulder, Colo. >Grinspoon is scheduled to speak this weekend as part of >Carnegie Science Center's Henry Buhl Jr. Planetarium and >Observatory Astronomy Day festivities. <snip> Hello all: If somebody wants to debunk comic-book UFO/alien stereotypes, its just fine with me. I'm sick to death of 'LGM' cheap shots, and the snots that need to use them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:36:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:42:49 -0500 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Hatch >Source: BBC Devon >http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/news_features/2004/ufos.shtml >9th February 2004 >How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott have never been given >an explanation about what they saw >This is the strange tale of a UFO sighting which was >reported by two Devon policemen and placed in Britain's >X-Files. More than 35 years on, there's still no >explanation as to what it was that the two officers saw >in the sky above West Devon that October night..... >You're driving along a country lane in rural Devon when >all of a sudden something appears in the skies above you. >It's a series of bright lights arranged in the shape of >a cross - and you've never seen anything like it before. <snip> Hello all, especially in the UK: I hope that when the F of A files come out, someone will be able to extract the dates, times, and reasonably precise locations of events like these. The two policemen could write a book about the event, wonderful descriptions, duration and all sorts of data, but I still cannot catalog the case without the vitals. If all goes well, it might make a nice dot in an otherwise lonely spot on this map, somewhere in rural Devon. http://www.larryhatch.net/BRITALL.html I got bombed on 'scrumpy' down Devon way once BTW. A 'fruit machine' ate up all my 10-pence pieces so I had a cold nite at the B&B.* Please pass this note on to anyone who can get better time/place coordinates.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Imaginary Tsunamis Are As Bad As Tornados From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:56:40 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:45:43 -0500 Subject: Imaginary Tsunamis Are As Bad As Tornados Hello All: In case anyone noticed (or not) I avoid discussions involving psychology and similar studies. I don't mean to cast asparagus at the good work a lot of people are doing there, its just that it the discussions turn into such an awful mess. If the study is chemistry, aeronautics, physics, accounting even... anything mathematical, a BS artist is smoked out pretty fast, whether he/she knows it or not. The problem with psychology, is that every dimwit in creation thinks he/she knows something about it. I'm dumb enough to know that I don't know beans about psychology, so I just lay out. Long discussions usually start here when some clown off-list cooks up a pseudo-psycho theory to explain UFO sightings. The tacit assumption is that the events can't be objective or real, so virtually anything plausible will serve for an alternative. Sure an imaginary train wreck, tornado, tsunami, Chinese opera... you name it [burp!] can be as frightening as the real McCoy. How often do we hear whacked out pseudo-psycho or psycho- social explanations for those?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Biogenic Potentials - Engineering Natural From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:44:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:47:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Biogenic Potentials - Engineering Natural >From: Rob Kritkausky <robkrit.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:53:01 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Biogenic Potentials - Engineering Natural Machines >Manganese is a transition >metal with nine valence states (most on the periodic table) and >an interesting ability to cooperate with some bacteria as they >oxidize a host. The Mn is able to accept extra electrons from >the bacteria, transforming it into the variant Mn4, which is >insoluble. It can even shed the electron via other chemical >reactions. Also this Pedomicrobium, with its specific attraction >to gold, would seem consistent with properties we might attempt >to engineer into a lifeform's DNA. This just caught my eye. When I went out to New Mexico to try and find the location of the AA cameraman's crash site, I found that the whole area was just full of old manganese mines. The area has lots of manganese compounds in the soil. Maybe the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Fleming From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 09:01:46 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:54:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Fleming >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:46:57 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations <snip> >Yes. Exactly what is hard ot say. Certainly Martians aren't going >to build cities in a crater. Well, who's to say what Martians might consider prime real estate? However, I see no evidence that they built anything in this particular crater. >>http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/first/24.11.2004_eng.shtml >>And looking at the original images, I can't see any sign of the >>claimed structures. So yet another Martian anomaly claim bites >>the dust..... >Looking at: >http://tinyurl.com/6wdsx >I can see the rectangular field effect with no modification. >Equalization makes it more apparent. I do not know if this is >pixellation though. It seems to me that the color pallette is >limited (in the original data? or postprocessing to provide the >above image or even just on MY computer or because it is some >original-to-JPEG conversion problem) was such that there were >only two levels of color to play with for that region. How it >assigns the value of the pallette is not known (closest random, >closest neighbors). I think the image you found may have been one of the stereo-pair used to construct the warped 3-D perspective image. The warped and unwarped images appear to be rotated 180 degrees relative to each other. I found what are probably the same artifacts as the ones seen in the warped image in an area centered at 1290, 110 in the unwarped image. I had to enlarge the image to see the blocky features. As I expected, they are aligned precisely with the vertical axis in the unwarped image. I didn't think of compression artifacts at first because the features didn't align with the image axes in the "discovery" image like compression artifacts always do in JPEG images and I didn't know that image had been warped. It would be an extraordinary coincidence for the camera's axes to line up by chance so precisely with the Martian farm plots,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Gevaerd From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:05:43 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:59:14 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Gevaerd >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:07:30 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:19:00 +0000 >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>Never before or after the March 5, 2004 incident the Mexican Air >>Force has experienced, witnessed or encountered a similar >>phenomena nor similar objects or lights invisible to their eyes >>but detected by radar and FLIR systems. The mysterious >>lights/objects have not appeared again even that they are aware >>of this incident and alert to detect a new apparition. This has >>been reported and confirmed, period. >What official report documents this? Have they shown the >flight paths and have they looked at that location? What >was the weather, viewing like for that range? >>Therefore we have our own confirmation of the March 5, 2004 UFO >>incident as legitimate. >You wish. <snip> James, forget the March 2004 flap (true or false) and please take a look at this: http://www.ufo.com.br/videos-traillers/mexico2005/pill07.wmv
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 15:42:58 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:01:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Hall >From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:02:20 +0100 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:14:20 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>The price varies depending upon the source of the abstract or >>paper, all of which come from various universities, hospitals, >>and other medical venues. >So you're suggesting that people should involve themselves in >ordering several dozen or even, potentially, several hundred >documents, many of which will probably turn out to be >irrelevant, all because you can't be bothered to back up your >claims with citations to the relevant literature? >Rich, this is farcical. If you were to submit an undergraduate >essay whose only reference was an instruction to consult the NLM >gateway, you'd be failed on the spot.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Freeman From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:56:49 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:02:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Freeman >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:05:58 -0500 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >"Below is a PDF file of an abstract (28 pages) with examples of >sleep disorders where the 'victims' relate episodes that mimic >the alien abduction phenomenon. >This is just one of many, and I mean many, papers dealing with >the "psychology" of sleep and how disorders (paralysis, >narcolepsy, et cetera) may account for the controversial events >told by some whereby they think they've been kidnapped or >abducted by alien beings and taken aboard an alien craft (a >flying saucer). >http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/kenkyu2002/Schegolova.pdf" <snip> Mr. Reynolds, So, is that all you've got? I read the paper and nowhere did I see anything that even remotely resembles a credible analogy to alien abductions. Aside from the fact that not all alien abductions even involve sleep paralysis, trying to explain_away_some by inferring that they are caused by sleep paralysis, or your kanashibari phenomenon as the example you provided, only illustrates your refusal to accept the known facts behind true alien abductions. I believe the burden is on you to provide better examples.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:26:28 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:04:33 -0500 Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Boone >Source: Phenomena Magazine >http://tinyurl.com/4dtlc >Friday, April 1, 2005 >The Secret Of Roswell >By: Stuart Miller >News Editor >As the editor of an e-zine (UFO Review), I do occasionally >receive unsolicited material in the post or by email, which if >appropriate, goes straight into the mag. A month ago I received >something which totally took my breath away but I have been >sitting on it ever since, unsure what to do with it exactly. It >needs checking. <snip> >I=E2=80=99ll tell you straight away that I am not going to reproduce any >of the photos here for this article. I=E2=80=99m not prepared to make a >complete fool of myself just yet. I have set certain activities >in motion to determine the validity of what I have been sent and >that will take time. Only when that process is complete, >regardless of whether the pictures are real or fake, will I then >release them into the public domain. <snip> >I have no idea why I was sent this material. My investigations >are ongoing and I will keep you appraised. Oh gad!!! The suspense will kill us all! We love Stuart Miller he's one of the real cool UFO folks but couldn't he have waited until he had confirmed or invalidated this new groundbreaking material before he told the world? Now we'll be on the edge of our seats for as long as it takes for arguments to rise, debates to fester and by the time the final analysis is complete there'll be some sort of tv movie or feature film based on it. Just jokin'.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:28:21 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:06:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Smith >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:48:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/first/24.11.2004_eng.shtml >Yup. The intriguing periodic "images", square shapes, etc. don't >appear in the straight-down-view initial color image available >at the above URL. One can see the expected random slight >variations in brightness that might seem to be evidence of >"structures" at the scale size of a few pixels. These variations >result from "chopping" the brightness variations of the actual >scene into digital levels. However, there are no relatively >large area (covering dozens of pixels in size) faint periodic >structures such as appear in the rotated stereo view that was >initially studied. >Apparently the faint image structures are some artifact of the >stereo processing and image rotation. I am looking at the same image only I downloaded the high res version of it. I see what looks like a flat region in the crater with at least 12 by 12 pixel sized areas. If you equalize the image then the patterns are obvious, even without any adjustments, they are faintly visible! I do not think you are correct about the stereo processing or image rotation being the cause. I do think something related to palettes/brightness at the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 2 Rich Reynolds Research Group? From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:37:02 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:11:25 -0500 Subject: Rich Reynolds Research Group? >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:05:58 -0500 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >UpDaters: >To accomodate Richard Hall, Greg Sandow, et al. >I've provided "citations" - pro and especially, con - at >our blog-site: >http://rrrgroup.blogspot.com Does that stand for Rich Reynolds Research Group? "If one wants to see examples of human stupidity, which is common enough in the real world, they might seek out the material at UFO UpDates... Here one can find nonsense of an intense kind from persons who have the patina of intelligence but betray their softheadedness with moronic and verbose missives that belie acute mental abilities."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:11:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 10:44:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 15:42:58 +0000 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:02:20 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:14:20 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>So you're suggesting that people should involve themselves in >>ordering several dozen or even, potentially, several hundred >>documents, many of which will probably turn out to be >>irrelevant, all because you can't be bothered to back up your >>claims with citations to the relevant literature? >>Rich, this is farcical. If you were to submit an undergraduate >>essay whose only reference was an instruction to consult the NLM >>gateway, you'd be failed on the spot. >I finally thought of a good analogy for what Rich is doing. If I >made the claim that UFOs are propelled by electorgravitic energy >and Rich asked me what I based that on, all I need to say is >that it's in the Library of Congress; go look it up. - Dick Okay you two... You've seen that I (with the help of EBK) have placed a citation (that pertains to my ramblings) online at our blog and here,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - King From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:13:27 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 10:47:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - King >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:48:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:58:24 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:09:44 -0500 >>>Subject: Mars Desert Excavations >>>They better have a good explanation for what appears in the >>>lower left of the Hale Crater on Mars. See: >>>http://tinyurl.com/5yxuj >>>for the story. <snip> >Apparently the faint image structures are some artifact of the >stereo processing and image rotation. Hi Bruce, Brett, List, This last statement is spot on. Just as Hoagland uses a similar "tiling" artifact in IR images from Cydonia to proclaim "structures" beneath the surface, digital imaging is inherently "square", and whenever images are resized, adjusted, enhanced or otherwise manipulated, this "square" nature becomes more and more apparent. Once the enhancement is done, and the image is skewed and "perspective-ized", this square nature is distorted, producing startlingly terrestrial-like land patterns. This effect would be most pronounced where natural areas of light or dark coincide with the pattern of "squarishness" in the sensors making up the cameras eye. Once these patterns appear, the anomaly-hunter pounces on then and then enhances the artifact, assuming that it is real. Under such circumstances, Mars images become a dynamic Rohrschach test. One can find whatever one is looking for, with enough manipulation of the data. This is not to say that artificial structures do not exist on Mars... they very well may. This does not however appear to be evidence of it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:16:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 10:49:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds >From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 10:56:49 EST >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:05:58 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >So, is that all you've got? I read the paper and nowhere did I >see anything that even remotely resembles a credible analogy to >alien abductions. >Aside from the fact that not all alien abductions even involve >sleep paralysis, trying to explain_away_some by inferring that >they are caused by sleep paralysis, or your kanashibari >phenomenon as the example you provided, only illustrates your >refusal to accept the known facts behind true alien abductions. >I believe the burden is on you to provide better examples. Kelly: Even though the abduction phenomenon is not a particular interest of mine, we've already placed more material online at our blog, and a list of some pro/con citations we culled from Google's Scholar search engine for those who might like an overview.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: Rich Reynolds Research Group? - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:22:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 10:51:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Rich Reynolds Research Group? - Reynolds >From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:37:02 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Rich Reynolds Research Group? >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:05:58 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas ><snip> >>UpDaters: >>To accomodate Richard Hall, Greg Sandow, et al. >>I've provided "citations" - pro and especially, con - at >>our blog-site: >>http://rrrgroup.blogspot.com >Does that stand for Rich Reynolds Research Group? >"If one wants to see examples of human stupidity, which is >common enough in the real world, they might seek out the >material at UFO UpDates... Here one can find nonsense of an >intense kind from persons who have the patina of intelligence >but betray their softheadedness with moronic and verbose >missives that belie acute mental abilities." >And later, "I'm not going to resort to derisive terms which have >the patina of immaturity about them, and you all know the terms >to which I refer." >Your patina is showing. Will: You're citing something that was not written by me, and I note that the RRRGroup consists of several people, with diverse views, many of which I do not personally subscribe to, as you can see from my recent post, An Offset. Again the six blind wise men who misunderstood the elephant because they were not able to discern to totality of the beast comes to mind. Check out our whole blog so that you might do me the favor of not providing material out of context which presents a warped view of my position on UFO things.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Mexican Natives & UFOs From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:29:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 10:54:36 -0400 Subject: Mexican Natives & UFOs This is from an anonymous (I know the person's identity) member of the vigilante gang stalking/electronic harassment group: "I used to live in Mexico where govt doesn't repress news of UFOs and have seen many reputedly legitimate videos on their TV of UFOs. I also have talked to locals who live in a small town about 45 minutes north of Mexico City where they land atop an old sacred pyramid. These native people are quite accustomed to their comings and goings and don't think anything about it. They told me that the lights of the village go out for several minutes during arrival and departure time. "Jaime Maussan, the Mexican journalist who investigates their reportings sometimes comes to U.S. for conferences. They're amused by our coverups.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #386 - King From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:48:20 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 10:58:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #386 - King >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 05:16:29 -0600 >Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #386 >Alfred's Odd Ode #386 March 31, 2005 >The Test <snip> >They are the _best_ 'sedition' if you think on it at all. >That's why the 'man' _ignores_ them, plying hurdle, screen, and >stall! They're why we have an 'info' void well larded with the >smirks of skeptibunky charlatans and other funded jerks. They're >_why_ we're in denial... they're _why_ we are 'regressed'... >they _prove_ our 'fubar' culture... they'd illustrate our failed >test. >alienview.nul -:|:- > www.AlienView.net >'Fupped' Up Beyond All Recognition... Hi Alfred, Regardless of the few things on which we may not agree, thine Ode is very plainly true, for those with eyes to see.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Koi From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:55:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 10:59:50 -0400 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Koi >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:36:14 -0800 >Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>Source: BBC Devon >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/news_features/2004/ufos.shtml >>9th February 2004 >>How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott have never been given >>an explanation about what they saw >>This is the strange tale of a UFO sighting which was >>reported by two Devon policemen and placed in Britain's >>X-Files. More than 35 years on, there's still no >>explanation as to what it was that the two officers saw >>in the sky above West Devon that October night..... <snip> >The two policemen could write a book about the event, >wonderful descriptions, duration and all sorts of data, >but I still cannot catalog the case without the vitals. <snip> >Please pass this note on to anyone who can get better >time/place coordinates. Hi Larry, The sighting by Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott has been relatively well known on this side of the pond for quite a while (appearing, for example, as the entirety of the first chapter of a mass market paperback book in England in 1969). It is fairly often referred to as "the flying thing" or (more frequently) "the flying cross" sighting. If you want more details, will find quite a few articles including the following by doing a Google search for: "flying cross" Willey Waycott: http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/flyingcross.htm http://users.macunlimited.net/ianrid/ufos/flyingcross The latter of the above links details an investigation by Howard Miles of the British Astronomical Association which concluded that the cause of the sighting was Venus, and that the policemen "accepted completely my explanation of the apparent motions of Venus as being due to travelling along a bending road". Since the relevant list of references for the relevant entry in my draft Chronology is relatively short, I hope nobody minds if I simply cut and paste it below in alphabetical order by author. (When the relevant table of references is sorted by length, the top references are the discussions by Chapman (11 pages), then David Clarke and Andy Roberts' "Out of the Shadows" (7 pages) and then Nick Redfern's "A Covert Agenda" (6 pages).) Chapman, Robert in his "UFO : Flying Saucers Over Britain?" (1969) (also published as "Unidentified Flying Objects") at pages 13-23 (in Chapter 1 generally) of the Mayflower paperback edition. Clarke, David and Roberts, Andy in their "Out of the Shadows" (2002) at pages 166-167, 169-173 (in Chapter 9) of the Piatkus hardback edition. Fairley, Peter in his "Is there Life in Outer Life?" (1975) at pages 116-117 (in Chapter 7) of the Look-In softcover edition. Garrett, Richard in his "Aliens From Outer Space" (1983) at pages 63-65 (in Chapter 5) of the Piccolo paperback edition. Good, Timothy in his "Above Top Secret" (1987) at page 64 (in Chapter 3) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition (with the same page numbering in the Pan paperback edition). Good, Timothy in his "Beyond Top Secret" (1996) at page 42 (in Chapter 3) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition (with the same page numbering in the Guild Publishing hardback edition and the Grafton paperback edition). Macvey, John W in his "Interstellar Travel" (1977) at pages 254- 256 (in Chapter 15) of the Avon paperback edition. Randles, Jenny in "The Mammoth Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial Encounters" (2001) (edited by Ronald Story) at page 140 (in an entry entitled "British Government Interest in UFOs") of the Robinson softcover edition. Randles, Jenny in her "The Little Giant Encyclopedia of UFOs" (2000) at page 69 (in Part 1, "A UFO Timeline") of the Sterling softcover edition. Randles, Jenny in Jerome Clark's "The UFO Encyclopedia: 1st edition: Volume 1 - UFOs in the 1980s" (1990) at page 30 (in an entry entitled "British Ufology") of the Apogee hardback edition. Redfern, Nick in his "A Covert Agenda" (1997) at pages 95-100 (in Chapter 8) of the Simon & Schuster hardback edition. Shuttlewood, Arthur in his "Warnings from Flying Friends" (1968) at pages 93-94 (in Chapter 6) of the Portway Press hardback edition. Hope this helps you Larry.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: Rich Reynolds Research Group? - King From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:56:29 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 11:01:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Rich Reynolds Research Group? - King >From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:37:02 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Rich Reynolds Research Group? >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:05:58 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >And later, "I'm not going to resort to derisive terms which have the patina of immaturity about them, and you all know the terms to which I refer." >Your patina is showing. Hi Will, It's kind of like when Judy Hensler used to make fun of the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms [was: Imaginary From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 20:52:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 11:04:08 -0400 Subject: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms [was: Imaginary >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:08:37 EST >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >Let me correct my statement since it came out wrong. Cataplexy >is always associated with normal people. Every normal person has >multiple episodes of cataplexy every time they enter dream sleep >every night of their lives. That is what I meant to say. >Cataplexy is the loss of voluntary muscle tone (strength) and >ranges in degree of severity all the way up to total loss of >voluntary muscle control. When people dream their brains put >them into a cataplectic state that is the most severe, i.e., >total loss of voluntary muscle control, and this is called Sleep >Paralysis. It protects them from hurting themselves in acting >out or responding to a dream. Every normal person experiences >full cataplexy every day (actually night) of their lives. If you're defining cataplexy a priori as a complete loss of muscle tone, I guess this is fair enough. However I do want to emphasize that this is not the clinical use of the term, and nor is it the meaning which is used in the literature on sleep disorders. Of course everyone is entitled to redefine terms for their own specialist use (provided they state the definition clearly in advance) but I do think this alternative usage is likely to cause confusion (as indeed, it appears to be doing already). In clinical usage, "cataplexy" refers specifically to the involuntary (partial or complete) loss of muscle tone without loss of consciousness, which occurs during waking hours and is always a feature of narcolepsy. >Since all normal people experience total cataplexy or sleep >paralysis when they dream every night, cataplexy is not some >unique diagnostic proof of narcolepsy. My very old copy of Kandel & Schwartz lists six defining characterics of narcolepsy, which are: *"Irresistible sleep attacks lasting 5-30 minutes during the day,which occasionally occur without warning and at behaviorally inappropriate moments." *Cataplexy (in the clincial sense of the term) *Sleep paralysis *Hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations *Sleep onset REM (REM stage sleep occurs immediately on falling asleep) *Decreased voluntary sleep latency (length of time it takes to get to sleep) >Cataplexy is not a >disease or some sign of pathology, it is just a descriptive >medical term for loss of muscle tone or control, which can be >perfectly normal (all people have it every night) or it can be >abnormal in occurrence (as with narcolepsy). I accept that this is the way you're using the term, but isn't the generally accepted usage. It's certainly true that cataplexy, like sleep paralysis, refers to a presenting symptom, and not to a fully understood mechanism (pathological or otherwise). >Narcoleptic people >get sudden attacks of loss of muscle strength during _daytime_ >instead of only at nighttime as normal people do, and it is of >varying degrees up to total cataplexy / sleep paralysis, however >they remain awake and conscious. Yes, this is essentially correct. >If and when narcoleptic people get a _full_ not partial >narcoleptic attack during the day they experience full cataplexy >or sleep paralysis by definition, and they also dream in this >conscious state. These hallucinations are dreams so they are >fragmentary and will not resemble the normal UFO abduction >experience. Now I think this is very confusing. What do you mean by a full narcoleptic attack? Are you referring to sleep attacks (the definitive symptom of narcolepsy)? It seems not, since you refer to dreaming in a conscious state. I don't understand what this means. >What we need to see is evidence of some other kind of sleep >disorder or state that produces a kind of free flowing, >conscious, fantasy creation that tells a complete story like a >UFO abduction, with a start (the UFO abduction), a middle (being >brought onboard the UFO, having an exam or whatever), and an end >(being returned to earth). Dreams won't cut it. That's my point. It's true that dreams don't exhibit narrative coherence, and that if we wanted to postulate dreams as an explanation for part of the abduction phenomenon, then we would also need to postulate some agency capable of controlling their narrative structure in just the right way, and such a hypothetical agency would not be parsimonious. If that's what you're saying then I agree with you :-) >Narcolepts only get the dream hallucinations in total loss of >muscle control and they fall to the ground if they happen to be >standing or sitting. There is no vertical ("non horizontal") >state of this kind of narcolpetic dreaming unless they are >propped up to remain vertical. Well, this is what I meant when I said that cataplexy is not just a daytime form of sleep paralysis. An individual experiencing an episode of complete cataplexy falls to the ground, something which doesn't happen in sleep paralysis, by definition. As an explanatory concept, cataplexy is therefore limited to abduction cases where the experiencer falls to the ground. I don't know how many such cases there are. Also, so far as I know (and I'm not certain because I haven't been able to check up on this definitively) specific episodes of cataplexy are not supposed to be associated with hallucinations, since cataplexy is a fully conscious state, and not an REM
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Aldrich From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:31:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 11:07:52 -0400 Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Aldrich >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: 4/2/05 11:12:17 AM >Subject: The Secret Of Roswell >Source: Phenomena Magazine >http://tinyurl.com/4dtlc >Friday, April 1, 2005 >The Secret Of Roswell >By: Stuart Miller >News Editor >As the editor of an e-zine (UFO Review), I do occasionally >receive unsolicited material in the post or by email, which if >appropriate, goes straight into the mag. A month ago I received >something which totally took my breath away but I have been >sitting on it ever since, unsure what to do with it exactly. It >needs checking. >It came in the post, a bulky manila A4 envelope post marked the >Philippines, containing 32 photo-copied pages, 30 of which were >photographs. And what photos! The other two pages were a closely >typed explanation of what I was looking at plus some back ground >information. The letter was on plain paper with no >identification of origin or sender. It had obviously been >composed on a word processor. >In the mid 90s, as a result of public pressure, the U.S. >government in the shape of the GOA launched an investigation >into Roswell and concluded it was a Mogul balloon that had >crashed near the infamous town in New Mexico. During the course >of their investigation, they were told that the majority of >official documents on the matter could not be found. Stuart can you cite where the GOA said that the majority of the documents could not be found. Certain specific records were destroyed and some cannot be found, however, I am unimpressed by the searches conducted. As I wrote some time ago, the search for Roswell records was IMO incomplete. My research in records which might have contain Roswell records is listed, and also, some files which might contain such records are considered. The listings have not been updated, but there are still other records which might contain such information if it existed. See: http://project1947.com/roswell/rosearch.htm >For those taking an interest in the process, that news was >greeted with cynical knowing. In fact, it would have been a >major bombshell if any �smoking gun� had surfaced and >disappointing though it was, the fact that nothing was uncovered >was really only to be expected. >The package I received related to Roswell and in particular, to >those missing files. What the writer of the letter alleged was >that there was indeed plenty of material on the Roswell incident >and that it could be found in the National archives, if only you >knew where to look. So where does the writer say to look? >This is the story that the letter told. In 1951, President >Truman, concerned with the fragmented manner in which the >aftermath of the Roswell incident had developed, and having lost >track of a sense of the timing and events and actions involved, >demanded that the Air Force provide him with a complete >documentary summary of the whole affair. Being well aware of the >significance the event had taken on and how his military had >responded to it and the fact that there was a possibility he >might be lied to, if only by omission, he issued a series of >personal and career threats to the very senior military >officials tasked with assembling the report, insisting that he >be told the whole truth. He was. The report was prepared and >presented to him. >It fell to Jean LeNoir, who was responsible for filing in the >Truman office, to dispose of the file afterwards and this is >where the fun and games started. Using her own initiative, she >divided the file into three sections and recorded them under >completely inappropriate designations. One ended up in an >agricultural section, another was inserted into a forestry >section, and the third ended up in a subdivision devoted to >American relations with Paraguay. >Besides LeNoir, three other people knew what she had done and >where the files could be found. They told no one. An interesting story. The government generally has poor records management. However, if the record still exist in the files, the archivists should have found them. I think there is flaw in this story, if you contact me off-line I will point it out. >Well, actually, someone must have said something at some point, >because presumably that is how I came to be in possession of a >photo copy of one of those files; the photographs taken by the >official military photographer of the scene at the Roswell crash >site. Are you saying that the only files you have are of photographs? No paper files? >It is of course possible that I am the victim of a bizarre hoax >and that all this material is faked but if it is, then it is a >thing of beauty in itself. If it�s real, then its awe inspiring. >Truly. >I�ll tell you straight away that I am not going to reproduce any >of the photos here for this article. I�m not prepared to make a >complete fool of myself just yet. I have set certain activities >in motion to determine the validity of what I have been sent and >that will take time. Only when that process is complete, >regardless of whether the pictures are real or fake, will I then
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: The Kinross Incident - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:41:37 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 11:11:02 -0400 Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident - Sparks >From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:01:28 -0800 >Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:26:31 EST >>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith - Sparks >>>From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:49:40 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith <snip> >>>research into flying saucers, was the same day that a US Air >>>Force jet and crew were possibly captured by a confounded >>>"flying saucer" and sent into oblivion. >>Pieces of the jet were found several months later. >This is a most intrigueing and puzzling piece of information. >Could you tell us your source for this information and provide >us any further details? <snip> Jan Aldrich had sent me the original clipping years ago and he is looking for it now. But as with me, finding a single item among many 10,000's of pages of material with no secretary or staff of assistants (and no room for storage except in a not-very- accessible storage room) is very difficult. >The second story published on the 31st [March 1960] stated >"Aircraft parts found near Cozens Cove by two prospectors may >prove the wreckage from a jet fighter, downed several years ago >over Lake Superior. Maj. J.H.Parker of the USAF Kincheloe >[formerly Kinross] Air Base, positively identified the stabilizer >found early this week as belonging to a high performance >military jet aircraft." >"The tail section washed up from the lake, probably brought up >by currents to the point where the two prospectors found it near >shore." Notice that the previous day, the parts were reported as >found "in the bush". >"Earlier there was some conjecture it could have been wreckage >from an F-89 Scorpion interceptor downed in 1953 but this later >appeared unlikely." >Unlikely? They had the parts right in front of them and they >couldn't (or wouldn't) come to a more definitive statement? Was >this because another F-89 was lost over Lake Superior? What were >the other jet disappearances and why weren't they revealed in >the news story? Perhaps because there were no other military jet >aircraft lost over Lake Superior? Or was there one or more >military jet aircraft lost that are still secret? >I haven't had any luck in my contacts with Transport Canada and >Canadian National Defence concerning the identity of these >parts. Both organizations indicate they have no records of these >parts. This 1960 story sounds very much like the clipping Jan sent me. However, without having the article he sent me in front of me to be sure, I can only go on memory here. My vague recollection was this was early 1954 several months after the F-89 disappearance, but I could be wrong, it might be early 1960.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:45:41 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 11:16:22 -0400 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Rimmer >Source: BBC Devon >http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/news_features/2004/ufos.shtml >9th February 2004 >Follow that UFO... >Sgt Roger Willey and Pc Clifford Waycott were on their way back >to their police station when they were diverted to an >investigation which they've never been able to solve. >This time, it wasn't criminals they were chasing - it was a UFO! >Thirty-seven years on, and the sighting is still vivid in >Roger's memory: "We were making our way back between Holsworthy >and Hatherleigh when we saw this unusual bright white light in >the sky. >"We both registered that we'd seen something. It was something >we couldn't logically account for. >"It was something that I hadn't seen before; I haven't seen >since; and something that nobody can explain exactly what it >was." >The two officers 'followed' the UFO before returning to the >station. >Like Roger, Clifford also recalls the evening as though it was >yesterday: "My view of it was that it was moving slowly. >"It wasn't a star. It was bright - it was white. If you look at >glass which has got rain on, it was the same sort of inference. >It was a splash. It was just too...eerie." >The incident was reported on the national BBC TV news bulletins, >but Clifford says the powers that be wanted the sighting 'hushed >up.' >"We were visited by a boffin from the MoD who told us that we >were still officers under the Official Secrets Acts and they >would rather we kept it to ourselves." <Snip> >Roger and Clifford, meanwhile, say they didn't imagine their >sighting and they're still waiting for a logical explanation. > >"No explanation has been given to us by anybody and we haven't >asked," said Cifford. That's not what they said at the time. Read this from Ian Ridpath's website: http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/flyingcross.htm ----- British Ufologists still recall the famous Devon 'flying cross' case of 1967 October 24 in which two police constables, Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott, chased an apparent UFO in their police car along country lanes at up to 90 mile/h in the early hours of the morning. "It looked like a star-spangled cross radiating points of light from all angles," Constable Willey told the press. "It was travelling about tree-top height over wooded countryside near Holsworthy, Devon. We drove towards it and it moved away. It then led us on a chase as if it was playing a game with us." Howard Miles of the British Astronomical Association (BAA) looked into this case but never published any results, so I have sought his recollections to put on the record. He is currently retired and living in Cornwall, but at the time he taught at a technical college in Coventry. He ran the BAA's artificial satellite section and UFO cases sometimes came his way. In this case it wasn't difficult for him (and others, including the science correspondent of the Daily Mirror, Arthur Smith) to recognize that the 'flying cross' was a classic sighting of Venus, which was particularly bright in the dawn sky at the time. In response to my request, in 2000 August Howard emailed me with the following information on his involvement with the case: I did not carry out any astronomical observations on this event as it was purely in field of the nutters. I became involved because the TV station at Plymouth phoned me up when I was living in Coventry and asked me to appear on a programme that particular evening. I was late in arriving at Plymouth and the producer met me at the Station. On the way to the studio he outlined what was involved and said that I would interview a UFO supporter who was described as a bit weird and then two policemen who had witnessed the event from their patrol car. The UFO chap was a prize nutter and knew no astronomy. He was completely confused about the positions of the planets and I came out with a sentence which is frequently quoted to me "For God's sake talk a bit of ruddy sense." The camera crew roared their heads off and after the programme the producer congratulated me in the way I handled him. The two PCs were completely different and accepted completely my explanation of the apparent motions of Venus as being due to travelling along a bending road. I explained all the usual optical illusions that arise when a very bright object is seen in the sky and the idea that it must be near if it is very bright. They seemed quite satisfied. That was my sole contribution to the episode. I did not wish to become involved with the UFO organisations as I had enough to do with the satellite work. These organisations were a pain throughout my years as satellite director. In the end I used to say that UFOs were outside the terms of reference of the BAA and hence could not comment. It usually shut them up." The case attracted a fair bit of publicity at the time because of the two policemen involved but even those familiar with the case may not have known of Howard Miles's involvement. In early 2004 BBC Devon reinterviewed constables Waycott and Willey, both now retired, about the events of that October night. "Nobody can explain exactly what it was," said Willey. "No explanation has been given to us by anybody," agreed Waycott. Evidently the policemen, and BBC Devon, had forgotten that they had been given the answer in the BBC's own Plymouth studios back in 1967. How memory improves after forty years!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Stefula From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:00:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 11:21:05 -0400 Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Stefula >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:26:28 EST >Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell >>Source: Phenomena Magazine >>http://tinyurl.com/4dtlc >>Friday, April 1, 2005 >>The Secret Of Roswell >>By: Stuart Miller >>News Editor
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:10:17 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 11:25:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:12:27 -0500 >Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <Ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:36:06 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research ><snip> >>I think the search for irrefutable proof or hard evidence in the >>national security system set up in response to visitation of ET >>races is really an act of faith. Far too many UFO researchers >>chant the mantra of 'hard evidence' or 'irrefutable proof' but >>are really promoting a kind of faith based approach to UFOlogy. >>I think we need to begin from the premise that the national >>security system was set up to keep the truth about the ET >>presence secret and to punish/intimidate those who broke ranks >>to reveal what they had seen/done or provided any kind of hard >>evidence. Essentially, we need to factor in the distorting role >>played by national security agencies if we are to make sense of >>the entire ET phenomenon and to better appreciate how to deal >>with whistleblower testimonies. If we begin with the correct >>premises about what was set up back in the 40s and 50s, we can >>work out what's happening currently. To continue with the search >>for hard evidence or irrefutable proof is really a faith based >>approach. >Dr. Salla: >Your paragraph above will surely make 'ufologists' wince. The >mantra of "irrefutable truth" is a must for the serious among >them. <snip> Rich, I'm not wincing..... Pardon me for butting in here but there is no such thing as irrefutable proof. Proof in the truest sense of the word does not apply when it comes to this subject. Proof translates into people either accepting something or not. You can have ground markings, photographs, body burns, radiation, official documents but this does not add up to proof because someone will always come up with an alternative explanation or question it's validity. You are then left with deciding what explanation you will accept or reject. It's a fallacy that you can present people with hard evidence and it will make a difference in their thinking. How many of us have done that, over and over I might add, and got nowhere with minds that are set on being closed? You can line up the very best proof in the world but people are still free to deny it as we have all seen. This goes far beyond any national security system, it's inherent in the human mind. The bottom line is that a persons ability to accept "proof" relies on their personal resilience factor, meaning, their ability to accept something without their world falling apart. That's it... bottom line. Now that applies to good, solid, hard evidence. How hard will it be, and what a challenge it is, as Michael is finding, to ask people to consider something based on personal testimony and analysis of that testimony, when a whistleblower comes forward with knowledge that cannot be verified purely because of it's very nature? Isn't that the nature of the UFO subject after all? We don't have to accept what Michael is saying and my impression is he wouldn't want us to unless we thought it possible,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 3 Re: The Kinross Incident - Aldrich From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:18:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 11:35:18 -0400 Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident - Aldrich >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:03:14 -0800 >Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:26:31 EST >>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith - Sparks >>>From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:49:40 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith >><snip> >>>research into flying saucers, was the same day that a US Air >>>Force jet and crew were possibly captured by a confounded >>>"flying saucer" and sent into oblivion. >>Pieces of the jet were found several months later. >Pieces of the jet found later? That slipped past me somehow, and >its important. >Can you verify this? Links or whatever? Hi Larry, Jerry Clark sent me a clipping from years later. It said that the wreckage recovered could be from one of three aircraft, including the Kinross interceptor. No more information is available. Brad agrees that we both saw the same news article which I have temporarily misplaced. Jerry mentioned the new report in his encyclopedia. The Condon Committee requested information on this, this Walesville, and Convair 1956 cases. They only got one paragraph summaries back from the accident board. They noted that, supposedly, they had access to everything in the Air Force records to do with UFOs, but made no attempt to contact the contracting officer with their complaint. The summary made no mention of wreckage recovered after the Kinross loss. One additional word on Kinross. Keyhoe used this case in the beginning of The Flying Saucer Conspiracy. Much of his text read as if it was abstracted from the unit histories of the radar and interceptor organizations.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula - Kimball From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 21:32:39 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 07:53:54 -0400 Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula - Kimball >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:16:17 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula >>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:26:48 EST >>Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula <snip> >I note in passing that Paul Kimball's blog quotes from >Moseley's notes of the interview in December 1953 after which >Moseley concluded that Scully had been duped, and that "he >probably knows it; he may even have known about it at the time >[he wrote his book], as he is a professional writer and probably >not against making money, even on a hoax". However, it is clear >to me from Paul's blog if that quote was taken from Moseley book >- in which it appears at page 80) in which Paul is probably fully >aware of the above, or from another source. The relevant part of >Paul's blog from: >http://tinyurl.com/54smk Hi Isaac: Yes, the above quote was taken from Shockingly Close to the Truth by Moseley and Pflock, p. 80. Just for everyone's information, my Aztec blogs are taken from a (long) paper I'm writing about the Aztec case. While the paper is extensively footnoted, alas, the notes do not transfer over to the blog when I cut and paste (I fully admit to being too "lazy" to completely re-type each part of the paper). However, anyone who reads one of the Aztec blogs, and is curious as to the source of a quote or an assertion, is more than welcome to e-mail me. I'll be happy to provide the source. A note or two about Cahn. First, it is absurd to assert that he was an "unemployed reporter" on the make for a story, as Scully did to Moseley, while at the same time claiming that he had the 'pull' to get the Denver DA to file charges against Newton and Gebauer. But then again, that was Frank Scully. Second, one of the most irrelevant (and pathetic) attempts to undermine Cahn's credibility was made by authors William Steinman & Wendelle Stevens, who referred to Cahn as a "young investigative journalist of Armenian descent," and, later, simply as "the Armenian reporter." But then, that's the modus operandi of Steinman and Stevens - can't make a case on the facts? Go after the people, and, in this case, their ethnic heritage; see UFO Crash at Aztec, p. 156. For the facts on Cahn (the relevant ones, that is) see California Territorial Quarterly, Short Biographies of Authors & Contributors, on the Internet at www.californiahistory.com, and also Obituary of John Philip Cahn, San Francisco Chronicle, 6 May 2004. It's a shame that Cahn, who was a person directly involved in the Newton/Gebauer/Scully angle, was never interviewed by Scott Ramsey, despite all those years of research, miles travelled, and dollars spent tracking down all sorts of Aztec "witnesses" like Fred "I was with the OSS in 1948" Reed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Morton From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs.nul> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 07:18:31 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 07:58:53 -0400 Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Morton >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:12:17 -0500 >Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:12:17 -0500 >Subject: The Secret Of Roswell >Source: Phenomena Magazine >http://tinyurl.com/4dtlc >Friday, April 1, 2005 >The Secret Of Roswell >By: Stuart Miller >News Editor >As the editor of an e-zine (UFO Review), I do occasionally >receive unsolicited material in the post or by email, which if >appropriate, goes straight into the mag. A month ago I received >something which totally took my breath away but I have been >sitting on it ever since, unsure what to do with it exactly. It >needs checking. <snip> >It is of course possible that I am the victim of a bizarre hoax >and that all this material is faked but if it is, then it is a >thing of beauty in itself. If it's real, then its awe inspiring. >Truly. <snip> >I will tell you that there is >clearly visible lettering, not in English, written on the sides. >It looks like hieroglyphics. On one photo of the craft showing >the lettering, someone has scribbled on a print, "Anoitos, Mera >enas=E2". One assumes that is a translation but I can't be sure. Hmmmm... April 1st, fish, babelfish, tails (tales?), hieroglyphics, Greek, "Anoitos, Mera enas=E2"... "Fools Day." (I initially thought it said something else which I won't repeat). Good one, Stuart.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #386 - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:39:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:04:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #386 - Lehmberg >From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:48:20 -0600 >Subject: Re: Alfred's Odd Ode #386 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 05:16:29 -0600 >>Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #386 >>Alfred's Odd Ode #386 March 31, 2005 >>The Test ><snip> >>They are the _best_ 'sedition' if you think on it at all. >>That's why the 'man' _ignores_ them, plying hurdle, screen, and >>stall! They're why we have an 'info' void well larded with the >>smirks of skeptibunky charlatans and other funded jerks. They're >>_why_ we're in denial... they're _why_ we are 'regressed'... >>they _prove_ our 'fubar' culture... they'd illustrate our failed >>test. >Hi Alfred, >Regardless of the few things on which we may not agree, thine >Ode is very plainly true, for those with eyes to see. >Kudos, indeed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 10:41:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:18:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO >From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 11:10:17 +1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:12:27 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <Ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:36:06 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitical Analysis Of Charles Hall & UFO Research >><snip> >>>I think the search for irrefutable proof or hard evidence in the >>>national security system set up in response to visitation of ET >>>races is really an act of faith. Far too many UFO researchers >>>chant the mantra of 'hard evidence' or 'irrefutable proof' but >>>are really promoting a kind of faith based approach to UFOlogy. >>>I think we need to begin from the premise that the national >>>security system was set up to keep the truth about the ET >>>presence secret and to punish/intimidate those who broke ranks >>>to reveal what they had seen/done or provided any kind of hard >>>evidence. Essentially, we need to factor in the distorting role >>>played by national security agencies if we are to make sense of >>>the entire ET phenomenon and to better appreciate how to deal >>>with whistleblower testimonies. If we begin with the correct >>>premises about what was set up back in the 40s and 50s, we can >>>work out what's happening currently. To continue with the search >>>for hard evidence or irrefutable proof is really a faith based >>>approach. > >>Dr. Salla: > >>Your paragraph above will surely make 'ufologists' wince. The >>mantra of "irrefutable truth" is a must for the serious among >>them. > ><snip> > >Rich, > >I'm not wincing..... > >Pardon me for butting in here but there is no such thing as >irrefutable proof. Proof in the truest sense of the word does >not apply when it comes to this subject. Proof translates into >people either accepting something or not. <snip> >It's a fallacy that you can present people with hard evidence >and it will make a difference in their thinking. How many of us >have done that, over and over I might add, and got nowhere with >minds that are set on being closed? You can line up the very >best proof in the world but people are still free to deny it as >we have all seen. >This goes far beyond any national security system, it's inherent >in the human mind. <snip> >We don't have to accept what Michael is saying and my impression >is he wouldn't want us to unless we thought it possible, >relevant and useful. (now there's a thought) Sheryl: I couldn't agree more... well, maybe. The idea of proof is exampled in the New Testament account of Thomas, needing to put his finger in the wounds of Christ after his resurrection. We can't settle the UFO question with the "proof" that is extant: the photos, the witness accounts, the ground markings, etc. Even the Air Force or government saying it has crashed saucers won't do it, even if they showed us the "evidence." Some people think we never went to the moon. And they could be right. (UpDaters, don't send scathing responses; that's a jest, sort of.) So asking for irrefutable proof is a wish hoping to be fulfilled, but some in the UFO community still desire that proof, while the vast majority of UFO-interested people accept anything or almost everything, no matter how loony, that
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 12:20:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:23:58 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Smith >From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:05:43 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >James, forget the March 2004 flap (true or false) and please >take a look at this: >http://www.ufo.com.br/videos-traillers/mexico2005/pill07.wmv Forget the March 2004 flap!!! Do you know how much work we all had to do on that! I know how much work I had to do and it is not pleasant to see that regardless how much work you do on something, some folk will _never_ accept or even address responsibly the work. >What do you make of it? Although the video seems interesting, the problem with it is that I can do nothing to confirm or deny video or photos like this. If one had taken stereo video/photos we might be able to understand the distance better, if we had the winds data a various altutudes then we could rule out balloons. It certainly looks like a flock of tied together balloons. If a spectrometer had been used to view the objects we might glean something of what they are made of via the reflected light or emitted light. A duplication of the event using mylar or white balloons tied together may help assess it. Whether birds could possibly flock like this I doubt but I am not an avian expert. It seems like they are beyond the clouds (what is the cloud height?). That's all I can think of.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Rogerson From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:36:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:35:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Rogerson >From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 20:52:42 +0100 >Subject: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms [was: Imaginary Traumas] >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:08:37 EST >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>Let me correct my statement since it came out wrong. Cataplexy >>is always associated with normal people. Every normal person has >>multiple episodes of cataplexy every time they enter dream sleep >>every night of their lives. That is what I meant to say. >>Cataplexy is the loss of voluntary muscle tone (strength) and >>ranges in degree of severity all the way up to total loss of >>voluntary muscle control. When people dream their brains put >>them into a cataplectic state that is the most severe, i.e., >>total loss of voluntary muscle control, and this is called Sleep >>Paralysis. It protects them from hurting themselves in acting >>out or responding to a dream. Every normal person experiences >>full cataplexy every day (actually night) of their lives. >If you're defining cataplexy a priori as a complete loss of >muscle tone, I guess this is fair enough. However I do want to >emphasize that this is not the clinical use of the term, and nor >is it the meaning which is used in the literature on sleep >disorders. Of course everyone is entitled to redefine terms for >their own specialist use (provided they state the definition >clearly in advance) but I do think this alternative usage is >likely to cause confusion (as indeed, it appears to be doing >already). >In clinical usage, "cataplexy" refers specifically to the >involuntary (partial or complete) loss of muscle tone without >loss of consciousness, which occurs during waking hours and is >always a feature of narcolepsy. >>Since all normal people experience total cataplexy or sleep >>paralysis when they dream every night, cataplexy is not some >>unique diagnostic proof of narcolepsy. >My very old copy of Kandel & Schwartz lists six defining >characterics of narcolepsy, which are: >*"Irresistible sleep attacks lasting 5-30 minutes during the >day,which occasionally occur without warning and at behaviorally >inappropriate moments." >*Cataplexy (in the clincial sense of the term) >*Sleep paralysis >*Hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations >*Sleep onset REM (REM stage sleep occurs immediately on falling >asleep) >*Decreased voluntary sleep latency (length of time it takes to >get to sleep) >>Cataplexy is not a >>disease or some sign of pathology, it is just a descriptive >>medical term for loss of muscle tone or control, which can be >>perfectly normal (all people have it every night) or it can be >>abnormal in occurrence (as with narcolepsy). >I accept that this is the way you're using the term, but isn't >the generally accepted usage. >It's certainly true that cataplexy, like sleep paralysis, refers >to a presenting symptom, and not to a fully understood mechanism >(pathological or otherwise). >>Narcoleptic people >>get sudden attacks of loss of muscle strength during _daytime_ >>instead of only at nighttime as normal people do, and it is of >>varying degrees up to total cataplexy / sleep paralysis, however >>they remain awake and conscious. >Yes, this is essentially correct. >>If and when narcoleptic people get a _full_ not partial >>narcoleptic attack during the day they experience full cataplexy >>or sleep paralysis by definition, and they also dream in this >>conscious state. These hallucinations are dreams so they are >>fragmentary and will not resemble the normal UFO abduction >>experience. >Now I think this is very confusing. What do you mean by a full >narcoleptic attack? Are you referring to sleep attacks (the >definitive symptom of narcolepsy)? It seems not, since you refer >to dreaming in a conscious state. I don't understand what this >means. >>What we need to see is evidence of some other kind of sleep >>disorder or state that produces a kind of free flowing, >>conscious, fantasy creation that tells a complete story like a >>UFO abduction, with a start (the UFO abduction), a middle (being >>brought onboard the UFO, having an exam or whatever), and an end >>(being returned to earth). Dreams won't cut it. That's my point. >It's true that dreams don't exhibit narrative coherence, and >that if we wanted to postulate dreams as an explanation for part >of the abduction phenomenon, then we would also need to >postulate some agency capable of controlling their narrative >structure in just the right way, and such a hypothetical agency >would not be parsimonious. If that's what you're saying then I >agree with you :-) >>Narcolepts only get the dream hallucinations in total loss of >>muscle control and they fall to the ground if they happen to be >>standing or sitting. There is no vertical ("non horizontal") >>state of this kind of narcolpetic dreaming unless they are >>propped up to remain vertical. >Well, this is what I meant when I said that cataplexy is not >just a daytime form of sleep paralysis. An individual >experiencing an episode of complete cataplexy falls to the >ground, something which doesn't happen in sleep paralysis, by >definition. As an explanatory concept, cataplexy is therefore >limited to abduction cases where the experiencer falls to the >ground. I don't know how many such cases there are. >Also, so far as I know (and I'm not certain because I haven't >been able to check up on this definitively) specific episodes of >cataplexy are not supposed to be associated with hallucinations, >since cataplexy is a fully conscious state, and not an REM >state. If anyone knows differently however I'd appreciate >knowing. There is a reference to hallucinations occuring in cataplexy attacks lasting more than a few minutes, here: http://sleepdisorderchannel.com/narcolepsy/symptom.shtml I have seen references to the sudden onset REM sleep associated with narcoplexy producing dreams of exceptional clarity and realism in a couple of TV documentaries. Lucid dreams can have a vividness and narrational quality quite different from ordinary dreams, so there seems no reason to assume that there are not dreams as vivid as these lucid dreams, but without the insight. I suspect dreams vary from person to person in clarity and narrational quality.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 13:56:57 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:44:09 -0400 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Ledger >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:45:41 +0100 >Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>Source: BBC Devon >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/news_features/2004/ufos.shtml >>9th February 2004 >>Follow that UFO... >>Sgt Roger Willey and Pc Clifford Waycott were on their way back >>to their police station when they were diverted to an >>investigation which they've never been able to solve. >>This time, it wasn't criminals they were chasing - it was a UFO! <snip> >>Roger and Clifford, meanwhile, say they didn't imagine their >>sighting and they're still waiting for a logical explanation. >>"No explanation has been given to us by anybody and we haven't >>asked," said Cifford. >That's not what they said at the time. Read this from Ian >Ridpath's website: >http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/flyingcross.htm >----- >British Ufologists still recall the famous Devon 'flying cross' >case of 1967 October 24 in which two police constables, Roger >Willey and Clifford Waycott, chased an apparent UFO in their >police car along country lanes at up to 90 mile/h in the early >hours of the morning. "It looked like a star-spangled cross >radiating points of light from all angles," Constable Willey >told the press. "It was travelling about tree-top height over >wooded countryside near Holsworthy, Devon. We drove towards it >and it moved away. It then led us on a chase as if it was >playing a game with us." >Howard Miles of the British Astronomical Association (BAA) >looked into this case but never published any results, so I have >sought his recollections to put on the record. He is currently >retired and living in Cornwall, but at the time he taught at a >technical college in Coventry. He ran the BAA's artificial >satellite section and UFO cases sometimes came his way. In this >case it wasn't difficult for him (and others, including the >science correspondent of the Daily Mirror, Arthur Smith) to >recognize that the 'flying cross' was a classic sighting of >Venus, which was particularly bright in the dawn sky at the >time. In response to my request, in 2000 August Howard emailed >me with the following information on his involvement with the >case: >I did not carry out any astronomical observations on this event >as it was purely in field of the nutters. I became involved >because the TV station at Plymouth phoned me up when I was >living in Coventry and asked me to appear on a programme that >particular evening. I was late in arriving at Plymouth and the >producer met me at the Station. On the way to the studio he >outlined what was involved and said that I would interview a UFO >supporter who was described as a bit weird and then two >policemen who had witnessed the event from their patrol car. >The UFO chap was a prize nutter and knew no astronomy. He was >completely confused about the positions of the planets and I >came out with a sentence which is frequently quoted to me "For >God's sake talk a bit of ruddy sense." The camera crew roared >their heads off and after the programme the producer >congratulated me in the way I handled him. >The two PCs were completely different and accepted completely >my explanation of the apparent motions of Venus as being due to >travelling along a bending road. >I explained all the usual optical illusions that arise when a >very bright object is seen in the sky and the idea that it must >be near if it is very bright. They seemed quite satisfied. >That was my sole contribution to the episode. I did not wish to >become involved with the UFO organisations as I had enough to do >with the satellite work. These organisations were a pain >throughout my years as satellite director. In the end I used to >say that UFOs were outside the terms of reference of the BAA and >hence could not comment. It usually shut them up." >The case attracted a fair bit of publicity at the time because >of the two policemen involved but even those familiar with the >case may not have known of Howard Miles's involvement. >In early 2004 BBC Devon reinterviewed constables Waycott and Willey, both now retired, about the events of that October night. "Nobody can explain exactly what it was," said Willey. "No explanation has been given to us by anybody," agreed Waycott. Evidently the policemen, and BBC Devon, had forgotten that they had been given the answer in the BBC's own Plymouth studios back in 1967. >How memory improves after forty years! So you have two onsite witnesses, police officers to boot, to Howard's one in-expert opinion. Whose memory would you think then, was faulty? Howard comes across as a bit of a fathead anyway with his obvious disrespect for the witnesses. I can imagine who had control of the interview in this case with the two policemen trying to convey their sighting, Howard's obvious attempts at ridicule and the police hoping to get out of the situation without suffering too much damage by the self styled expert in the guise of the all knowing astronomer. It looks like in this case that the witnesses went along with rather than disagree with Howard on television. What defense did they have? Put yourself in the same situation. Who had the upper hand? Who was known to the TV staff? Who had the onscreen experience? Who had the most to lose? Howard didn't explain anything, really did he? He just racked up a few brownie points with his peers at other's expense and trotted out the old "one trick" Venus pony. It is stated :"Howard Miles of the British Astronomical Association (BAA) looked into this case but never published any results.." Probably because he had no real evidence of Venus, he just shot his mouth off on television with a rather amateurish explanation of the event that apparently even the MOD didn't believe. If this was Venus and an easy out, why would the MOD have kept Venus a secret for all of those years? The quote goes on to say,"... so I have sought his recollections to put on the record." Recollections, not fact, of a television ambush. If Howard wasn't present during the actual event, what possible value would his recollections have other than to himself, preening over his making fools out of the three witnesses-one of whom was an "obvious nutter" and the other two who were police officers? Bet he never called them "obvious nutters". The Howards of the world usually need the pack behind them before they venture into dangerous territory. So the case remained unsolved as far as the MOD was concerned. Howard's obvious glee, the use of the term "absolute nutter" makes me wonder at the man's personality - or lack thereof, and he is hardly one who should be given serious consideration as an
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Freeman From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 13:32:37 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:45:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Freeman >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:16:00 -0500 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >Even though the abduction phenomenon is not a particular >interest of mine, we've already placed more material online at >our blog, and a list of some pro/con citations we culled from >Google's Scholar search engine for those who might like an >overview. Not being a particular interest of yours? Does that mean your research regarding the phenomenon has been minimal, spotty, and/or selective? >We'll provide more to accomodate those who just hate the idea >that we (or anyone) would dismiss UFO abductions out of hand. Rich, I certainly hope that you wouldn't. But, trying to dismiss the alien nature of abductions by assuming they are nothing more than a psychological anomaly, or some anomalous function of the brain/mind system, is IMO, illogical. First, realize that there have been thousands of UFO sightings on a global scale for years. They have displayed technologically superior abilities to the witnesses who have seen them for all those years. The motives of those inside the UFOs are unknown, or at least, suspect. The occupants of those ETVs have been described just as the victims of alien abductions have described them, however, they have varied on a case by case basis. Again, their motives are unknown, or theoretical, at best. Is it that much harder to suggest that these alien intruders are abducting unsuspecting humans with some vastly superior technology that we have yet to comprehend? With some motive we have yet to fully understand? Using the "explanations" that you and others would have us believe, we would have to apply that same logic to the myriad cases of UFO sightings, IMO. We would have to assume that witnesses to UFOs are suffering from some psychological symptom that induces the hallucination of a "flying saucer", or that the brains of such are "short circuiting", if I may. (Oh yeah, they have already done, and trying to do that, aren't they?) But, most of us on this list know UFOs are, in fact, real. Not only that, but if alien abductions are induced by the same stimuli as Old Hags, old men, etc., we would also have to assume, IMO, that they would all have to come from the same realm that our brain/mind systems perceive at the time of the experience. Anyone seen an Old Hag in a flying saucer, yet? I could go on, but perhaps you are beginning to get my point. I'll go ahead and read your blogs anyway.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 UFO Reports From Mexico City 03-05 From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:15:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:52:45 -0400 Subject: UFO Reports From Mexico City 03-05 INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 3, 2005 SOURCE: Prof. Ana Luisa Cid DATE: 04.01.05 MEXICO: RECENT UFO REPORTS FROM MEXICO CITY On March 20, 2005, UFO researcher Ana Luisa Cid photogrphed a spherical object in Mexico State's Tlalnepantla Municiopality. Days later, she discovered that the helicopter shown in the image belongs to the police authorities of the state in question and was flying at low altitude to monitor disturbances with area street peddlers. The spherical object became apparent when she downloaded the images to her computer. On March 22, 2005, according to a report from aviation technician Alfonso Salazar, the Radio Red news station reported that a spherical UFO had been reported as hanging motionless over the vicinity of Tlalnepantla, Mexico State. The news was made known by Jorge Flores, a journalist and reporter for the station in quesiton, and by Guadalupe Juarez, a reporter for Radio Red's nighttime news hour. On March 23, 2005, Alfonso Salazar and Carlos Guzm=E1n (renowned Mexican UFO researcher) were interviewed to issue an opinion on the subject. On Easter Thursday (03/24/05) Mrs. Malena Mendieta reported to Prof. Cid that she had witnessed strange low-flying lights near her window in the Patera Vallejo neighborhood to the north of Mexico City. These lights emitted a buzzing sound that impressed her greatly. This sighting took place during early morning hours and she was in the company of her daughter. On Good Friday (03/25/05) Alfonso Salazar and Salvador Guerrero managed to observe and record a spherical object over eastern Mexico City that suddenly changed speed and trajectory exactly as the Crucifixion was being reenacted in Ixtapalapa. On March 26, 2005, an aviation technician reported a spherical object emitting white lights in the city's southern region, flying at high altituded from south to north (according to a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Heifer Mutilated in Coronel Suarez Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:16:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 08:55:33 -0400 Subject: Heifer Mutilated in Coronel Suarez Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 3, 2005 Source: CIUFOS-La Pampa Date: March 30, 2005 Mutilated Heifer In Coronel Suarez A mutilated Aberdeen Angus heifer was found on March 24, 2005 in the town of Coronel Suarez, province of Buenos Aires (Argentina). The carcass was reported along Provincial Highway No. 85, on the shoulder. The 3 month old animal, weighing some 100 kg. was missing its tongue and presented incisions in its anus and genitals, with a total absence of the uterus and a burst right eyeball. The carcass also presented signs of missing muscular mass near the back of the neck; orifices were detected in the aforementioned area. Despite the fact that rigor mortis had not set in, there were no
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:16:59 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:46:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Sparks >From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 20:52:42 +0100 >Subject: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms [was: Imaginary Traumas] >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:08:37 EST >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>Let me correct my statement since it came out wrong. Cataplexy >>is always associated with normal people. Every normal person has >>multiple episodes of cataplexy every time they enter dream sleep >>every night of their lives. That is what I meant to say. >>Cataplexy is the loss of voluntary muscle tone (strength) and >>ranges in degree of severity all the way up to total loss of >>voluntary muscle control. When people dream their brains put >>them into a cataplectic state that is the most severe, i.e., >>total loss of voluntary muscle control, and this is called Sleep >>Paralysis. It protects them from hurting themselves in acting >>out or responding to a dream. Every normal person experiences >>full cataplexy every day (actually night) of their lives. >If you're defining cataplexy a priori as a complete loss of >muscle tone, I guess this is fair enough. I do not know how you got me defining it as "a complete loss of muscle tone" when I was so crystal clear in saying it was a full range from minimal partial loss to full loss, let me repeat from the statement I made (above): "Cataplexy is the loss of voluntary muscle tone (strength) and ranges in degree of severity all the way up to total loss of voluntary muscle control." >However I do want to >emphasize that this is not the clinical use of the term, and nor >is it the meaning which is used in the literature on sleep >disorders. Of course everyone is entitled to redefine terms for >their own specialist use (provided they state the definition >clearly in advance) but I do think this alternative usage is >likely to cause confusion (as indeed, it appears to be doing >already). Well it is the meaning used in the old sleep literature but has now been increasingly used or misused so that "cataplexy" is an abnormal state associated _only_ with narcolepsy, which means that if this misuse of termonology is allowed to prevail then there will be no term for _normal_ loss of muscle tone or paralysis during normal dream sleep, since in the old literature that was what "cataplexy" was defined as, and was only incidentally applied to narcolepsy, descriptively. The reason for this misuse of terminology is that sleep researchers find that cataplexy is the most convenient diagnostic symptom of narcolepsy for their research so instead of coining a new term they hijacked the old term. Just because they do that doesn't make it right or logical. The old broad definition of cataplexy is nevertheless still in use, so I am not making it up or stupidly or ignorantly misunderstanding the medical terminology. Here is an example from the July 2002 issue of "Sleep Review: The Journal for Sleep Specialists" which proves my point: http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/Articles.ASP?articleid=S0207D02 "...cataplexy is a normal sleep behavior occurring at an abnormal time. It is characteristic of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep - that stage of nighttime sleep during which we dream. The loss of muscle tone is nature's way to prevent us from acting out our dreams. But for people with narcolepsy whose sleep is fragmented, such muscle paralysis suddenly appears often without warning during daytime wakefulness. It is usually triggered by an emotional response such as laughter, anger, surprise, competitive exertion, or elation." >>Since all normal people experience total cataplexy or sleep >>paralysis when they dream every night, cataplexy is not some >>unique diagnostic proof of narcolepsy. >It's certainly true that cataplexy, like sleep paralysis, refers >to a presenting symptom, and not to a fully understood mechanism >(pathological or otherwise). >>If and when narcoleptic people get a _full_ not partial >>narcoleptic attack during the day they experience full cataplexy >>or sleep paralysis by definition, and they also dream in this >>conscious state. These hallucinations are dreams so they are >>fragmentary and will not resemble the normal UFO abduction >>experience. >Now I think this is very confusing. What do you mean by a full >narcoleptic attack? Are you referring to sleep attacks (the >definitive symptom of narcolepsy)? It seems not, since you refer >to dreaming in a conscious state. I don't understand what this >means. See below. >>What we need to see is evidence of some other kind of sleep >>disorder or state that produces a kind of free flowing, >>conscious, fantasy creation that tells a complete story like a >>UFO abduction, with a start (the UFO abduction), a middle (being >>brought onboard the UFO, having an exam or whatever), and an end >>(being returned to earth). Dreams won't cut it. That's my point. >It's true that dreams don't exhibit narrative coherence, and >that if we wanted to postulate dreams as an explanation for part >of the abduction phenomenon, then we would also need to >postulate some agency capable of controlling their narrative >structure in just the right way, and such a hypothetical agency >would not be parsimonious. If that's what you're saying then I >agree with you :-) What drives the forced effort to link sleep disorders such as narcolpesy to UFO abductions (actually intrusions without abductions) are statements such as the following, again from the July 2002 Sleep Review journal: "The hallucinations occur at sleep onset and are frequently experienced as vivid, realistic, and personally threatening intrusions into one's home or bedroom by strangers, animals, or even spirits (personally, I find them so real that I would never keep a weapon near our bed)." But note these are brief impressions of "intrusions" into the home, _not_ long extended duration abductions into a UFO or vehicle somewhere else, and not a connected narrative incident. They are dreams which are fragmentary, don't tell a full story like UFO abductions do. >Also, so far as I know (and I'm not certain because I haven't >been able to check up on this definitively) specific episodes of >cataplexy are not supposed to be associated with hallucinations, >since cataplexy is a fully conscious state, and not an REM >state. If anyone knows differently however I'd appreciate >knowing. In 1991 UCLA and Stanford University scientists established that the same cells in the brain governing narcoleptic cataplexy are the same brain cells governing normal REM dream sleep (Science, May 31, 1991, Siegel, et al., Neuronal Activity in Narcolepsy: Identification of Cataplexy-Related Cells in Medial Medulla, vol. 283: 1315-1318). Later researchers discovered a second area of the brain involved in both REM dream sleep and narcoleptic cataplexy (Wu, et al., Locus Coeruleus Neurons: Cessation of Activity During Cataplexy, Neuroscience, 1999, 91(4):1389-1399). http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/91/910624Arc1283.html Here again from the July 2002 Sleep Review journal is a description of narcolepsy where it is mentioned that sometimes narcolepts experience REM dreaming or hallucinations while still awake or conscious and while experiencing muscle paralysis: "The two other primary symptoms of narcolepsy are hypnagogic hallucinations and sleep paralysis, which can also be quite frightening. But because they usually occur immediately before and after sleep, they are less visible to the public. ... "Sleep paralysis may accompany the hallucinations, but often occurs independently. It is a frightening experience upon falling asleep or awakening, to be unable to move your limbs, talk, or even breathe deeply. Like the other main symptoms of narcolepsy, hallucinations and sleep paralysis are normal sleep
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:42:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:55:26 -0400 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Hatch >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:55:40 +0100 >Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:36:14 -0800 >>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>Source: BBC Devon >>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/news_features/2004/ufos.shtml >>>9th February 2004 >>>How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott have never been given >>>an explanation about what they saw >>>This is the strange tale of a UFO sighting which was >>>reported by two Devon policemen and placed in Britain's >>>X-Files. More than 35 years on, there's still no >>>explanation as to what it was that the two officers saw >>>in the sky above West Devon that October night..... ><snip> >>The two policemen could write a book about the event, >>wonderful descriptions, duration and all sorts of data, >>but I still cannot catalog the case without the vitals. ><snip> >>Please pass this note on to anyone who can get better >>time/place coordinates. >Hi Larry, >The sighting by Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott has been relatively well known on this side of the pond for quite a while (appearing, for example, as the entirety of the first chapter of a mass market paperback book in England in 1969). It is fairly often referred to as "the flying thing" or (more frequently) "the flying cross" sighting. >If you want more details, will find quite a few articles >including the following by doing a Google search for: "flying >cross" Willey Waycott: >http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/flyingcross.htm >http://users.macunlimited.net/ianrid/ufos/flyingcross <snip> >Hope this helps you Larry. Hello Isaac and thanks much! You helped more than you may have thought. I had the case listed, but could not find it without the date and place. I have those as Hatherleigh Devon, around 0400 hours on 24 OCT 1967. My sources were Phenomenes Spatiaux quarterly (Groupe GEPA) #14 and #16; and also the APRO Bulletin vol.30 #6. I also have Tim Good's above TS but could not find reference on page 64. Notably, the 2 policemen had mistook Venus for a "flying cross", but still accepted the astronomer's explanation later. I'd like to know how that happens. Venus as a 'ball of light' seems more plausible. Neither of my sources gave the Venus finding, just the original mystery. Do any of the sources on your long list cite Venus or mention the astronomer? Given that Venus stands, this sounds like an excellent entry for my discredited sightings list online: http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html ...especially in view of the many citations you kindly provided. May I take it that most serious ufologists there accept the Venus explanation?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 4 Re: The Kinross Incident - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:03:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:59:38 -0400 Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident - Hatch >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:18:21 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:03:14 -0800 >>Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:26:31 EST >>>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith - Sparks <snip> >>>>Force jet and crew were possibly captured by a confounded >>>>research into flying saucers, was the same day that a US Air >>>>"flying saucer" and sent into oblivion. >>>Pieces of the jet were found several months later. >>Pieces of the jet found later? That slipped past me somehow, >>and its important. >>Can you verify this? Links or whatever? >Hi Larry, >Jerry Clark sent me a clipping from years later. It said that >the wreckage recovered could be from one of three aircraft, >including the Kinross interceptor. >No more information is available. >Brad agrees that we both saw the same news article which I have >temporarily misplaced. Jerry mentioned the new report in his >encyclopedia. >The Condon Committee requested information on this, this >Walesville, and Convair 1956 cases. They only got one paragraph >summaries back from the accident board. They noted that, >supposedly, they had access to everything in the Air Force >records to do with UFOs, but made no attempt to contact the >contracting officer with their complaint. The summary made no >mention of wreckage recovered after the Kinross loss. >One additional word on Kinross. Keyhoe used this case in the >beginning of The Flying Saucer Conspiracy. Much of his text read >as if it was abstracted from the unit histories of the radar and >interceptor organizations. Thanks Jan: I guess the case remains grey-basket then, suggestive yes, but nothing really conclusive.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:52:59 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:39:54 -0400 Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Bourdais >From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:00:59 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell >>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:26:28 EST >>Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell >>>Source: Phenomena Magazine >>>http://tinyurl.com/4dtlc >>>Friday, April 1, 2005 >>>The Secret Of Roswell >>>By: Stuart Miller >>>News Editor ><snip> >Great April Fools Joke. Yes, it does look that way. It could also be a nice debunking operation (look how silly Roswell is, again !). For the record, it is no GOA but GAO - General Accounting Office. GAO did not give the Mogul explanation, and it did not accept it either. BTW, talking about Roswell, could you confirm that the person
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:26:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:41:52 -0400 Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Lehmberg >From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 07:18:31 EDT >Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:12:17 -0500 >>Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 11:12:17 -0500 >>Subject: The Secret Of Roswell >>Source: Phenomena Magazine >>http://tinyurl.com/4dtlc >>Friday, April 1, 2005 <snip> >>I will tell you that there is >>clearly visible lettering, not in English, written on the sides. >>It looks like hieroglyphics. On one photo of the craft showing >>the lettering, someone has scribbled on a print, "Anoitos, Mera >>enas=E2". One assumes that is a translation but I can't be sure. >Hmmmm... >April 1st, fish, babelfish, tails (tales?), hieroglyphics, >Greek, "Anoitos, Mera enas=E2"... "Fools Day." >(I initially thought it said something else which I won't >repeat). >Good one, Stuart. >You had me going with that one... Two things aren't funny... sex and UFOs. The former because it's at least 3 billion years in the making, and the latter because it's already plagued by giggle factor, enough.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:55:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:44:03 -0400 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 13:56:57 -0300 >Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:45:41 +0100 >>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>Source: BBC Devon >>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/news_features/2004/ufos.shtml >>>9th February 2004 >>>Follow that UFO... >>>Sgt Roger Willey and Pc Clifford Waycott were on their way back >>>to their police station when they were diverted to an >>>investigation which they've never been able to solve. >>>This time, it wasn't criminals they were chasing - it was a UFO! ><snip> >>>Roger and Clifford, meanwhile, say they didn't imagine their >>>sighting and they're still waiting for a logical explanation. >>>"No explanation has been given to us by anybody and we haven't >>>asked," said Cifford. >>That's not what they said at the time. Read this from Ian >>Ridpath's website: >>http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/flyingcross.htm <snip> >Howard's obvious glee, the use of the term "absolute nutter" >makes me wonder at the man's personality - or lack thereof, and >he is hardly one who should be given serious consideration as an >expert. Forgetting personality or quality of same who couldn't see that for himself and then continue to hold Howard blithely out in support of his specious argument... who's the "nutter"? For my money it's the reflexive denialist.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Gevaerd From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:20:23 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:46:18 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Gevaerd >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 12:20:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:05:43 -0300 >>Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>James, forget the March 2004 flap (true or false) and please >>take a look at this: >>http://www.ufo.com.br/videos-traillers/mexico2005/pill07.wmv >Forget the March 2004 flap!!! Do you know how much work we all >had to do on that! I know how much work I had to do and it is >not pleasant to see that regardless how much work you do on >something, some folk will _never_ accept or even address >responsibly the work. Take it easy, man. I am not saying to drop off your efforts in the garbage can. Not at all. I am just saying "give it a break and let=B4s talk about something else for a while". Why so angry??? >>What do you make of it? >Although the video seems interesting, the problem with it is >that I can do nothing to confirm or deny video or photos like >this. If one had taken stereo video/photos we might be able to >understand the distance better, if we had the winds data a >various altutudes then we could rule out balloons. It certainly >looks like a flock of tied together balloons. Would it help if you get the DVD or the file with the images ??? >If a spectrometer had been used to view the objects we might >glean something of what they are made of via the reflected light >or emitted light. A duplication of the event using mylar or >white balloons tied together may help assess it. >Whether birds could possibly flock like this I doubt but I am >not an avian expert. >It seems like they are beyond the clouds (what is the cloud >height?). That's all I can think of. >Good luck on resolving it. > >Sadly, we have alot of interesting UFO images that are hard or >impossible to resolve. The Campeche UFOs were an exception. I really admire your and everyone=B4s else efforts towards finding explanations in Ufology. I only wonder if wouldn=B4t we profit much more in terms of understanding of the UFO Phenomena and taking some advantage of that understanding _if_ we spend more time on the real images? In that case, what about taking a very
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:44:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:48:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds >From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 13:32:37 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:16:00 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas ><snip> > .....if alien abductions are induced by the same >stimuli as Old Hags, old men, etc., we would also have to >assume, IMO, that they would all have to come from the same >realm that our brain/mind systems perceive at the time of the >experience. Anyone seen an Old Hag in a flying saucer, yet? >I could go on, but perhaps you are beginning to get my >point. I'll go ahead and read your blogs anyway. Kelly: By now you visited our blog, and see that I've added much more material, pro and con, even though I had hoped not to get embroiled in the abduction controversy, even after having had some discourse with Dr. John Mack a while back, and recently with Will Bueche, whom I have great respect for, and who
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 07:56:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Randle >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:08:37 EST >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:55:36 EST >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:27:20 EST >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:27:47 EST >>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:49:44 -0400 >>>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>>>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>>Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:28:40 +0100 >>>>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> Stans original comments: >>>>>How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >>>>>sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >>>>>cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking >>>>>etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >>>>>abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >>>>>disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving or >>>>>doing other non horizontal activities? >>>>The trouble here is that few are claiming that sleep paralysis >>>>answers all abduction cases. It does explain some. Besides, >>>>there is a type of sleep paralysis that does, in fact, affect >>>>people who are wide awake and involved in other "non horizontal >>>>activities." It's called cataplexy and before anyone runs off to >>>>look it up, I will point out that it is always associated with >>>>narcolepsy. No one, as far as I can tell, has ever done any >>>>research into the number of abduction witnesses who are also >>>>narcoleptic (though I will speculate that the number is quite >>>>small). >>>Cataplexy occurs during normal sleep not in narcolepsy. It is >>>"sleep paralysis." >>This seems odd and I'm not sure I understand the point of it. >>Cataplexy is associated with narcolepsy, meaning that those >>suffering from narcolepsy are those who exhibit the symptoms of >>cataplexy. <snip> >Let me correct my statement since it came out wrong. Cataplexy >is always associated with normal people. Every normal person has >multiple episodes of cataplexy every time they enter dream sleep >every night of their lives. That is what I meant to say. >Cataplexy is the loss of voluntary muscle tone (strength) and >ranges in degree of severity all the way up to total loss of >voluntary muscle control. When people dream their brains put >them into a cataplectic state that is the most severe, i.e., >total loss of voluntary muscle control, and this is called Sleep >Paralysis. It protects them from hurting themselves in acting >out or responding to a dream. Every normal person experiences >full cataplexy every day (actually night) of their lives. >Since all normal people experience total cataplexy or sleep >paralysis when they dream every night, cataplexy is not some >unique diagnostic proof of narcolepsy. Cataplexy is not a >disease or some sign of pathology, it is just a descriptive >medical term for loss of muscle tone or control, which can be >perfectly normal (all people have it every night) or it can be >abnormal in occurrence (as with narcolepsy). Narcoleptic people >get sudden attacks of loss of muscle strength during _daytime_ >Instead of only at nighttime as normal people do, and it is of >varying degrees up to total cataplexy / sleep paralysis, however >they remain awake and conscious. >If and when narcoleptic people get a _full_ not partial >narcoleptic attack during the day they experience full cataplexy >or sleep paralysis by definition, and they also dream in this >conscious state. These hallucinations are dreams so they are >fragmentary and will not resemble the normal UFO abduction >experience. I'll let Cathy Reason's response to this answer the questions and the points. I will mention, however, that the point here was to provide Stan with some information about cataplexy because he had suggested he knew of no mechanism in which a waking person could experience something like sleep paralysis. He was dismissing the idea that any abduction reports fell into that category and I was suggesting that additional research was necessary based on cataplexy. I will note that in case 039 in Bullard's "The UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases," that Egidio Silva reported that he had gone outside because his dog was barking, a powerful light was shown down on him and he felt paralyzed. Not the best example, for sure, but one that fits, generally, the conditions of waking paralysis. >What we need to see is evidence of some other kind of sleep >disorder or state that produces a kind of free flowing, >conscious, fantasy creation that tells a complete story like a >UFO abduction, with a start (the UFO abduction), a middle (being >brought onboard the UFO, having an exam or whatever), and an end >(being returned to earth). Dreams won't cut it. That's my point. Actually, in Bullard's report, there are a number of cases in which dreams are suggested as the original "memory" of the event. In case 194c, "Pamela Armstrong," it is reported that "In a dream the witness saw a bright egg-shaped and domed object land=E2=80=A6.Two beings stepped out=E2=80=A6. She was unable to move=E2=80=A6. The beings= took her inside=E2=80=A6." Case 198c, page C-196, Mike Lewis, according to Bullard, "The witness had a recurring dream about an experience when he was five years old, and under hypnosis recalled an abduction." Bullard reports in case 205, page C-204, Mary Sewall, "In a dream one night the witness found herself in an aircraft like 2 saucers rim to rim=E2=80=A6" To move from a dream to an abduction usually requires another activity, most notably, hypnosis. It is under hypnosis that the subject remembers additional details of the abduction. >>But the point was not to begin a discussion about cataplexy or >>narcolepsy, but to point out there is a mechanism that mimics >>sleep paralysis that comes in a waking, non horizontal state. >Narcolepts only get the dream hallucinations in total loss of >muscle control and they fall to the ground if they happen to be >standing or sitting. There is no vertical ("non horizontal") >state of this kind of narcolpetic dreaming unless they are >propped up to remain vertical. >>>>The point is that some abductions, but by no means all, can be >>>>explained by sleep disorders. >>>Where is _my_ point, all deleted now, that UFO abductions >>>almost always have beginnings, middles, and ends? Whereas >>>dreams are almost always fragmentary with no beginnings or >>>endings like an abductee being abducted by aliens, taken >>>aboard a UFO, then returned to car or home or wherever. >>Because I was responding to a point made by Stan and not to your >>point about dreams. It opens the discussion to a whole different >>take. >Well my point refutes the dream theory and thus remains >relevant. See above, and Bullard's work. >>>>>>>Dreams are one thing. Sleep paralysis and narcoleptic incidents >>>>>>>have, in the past, produced acounts that are exactly like those >>>>>>>of UFO abductees but, because of the different cultures and >>>>>>>eras, have the afflicted persons being taken by the hag (a >>>>>>>common abductor), spirits of the underworld, and a host of other >>>>>>>creatures who slip into one's sleep or unconscious state and >>>>>>>"take them away." Again, here is one of Stan's original comments: >>>>>I have seen no examples that sleep paralysis has produced >>>>>accounts just like abductions any more than magnetic fields >>>>>have. >>>>Well, then let's take a look around and see if we can find some >>>>examples for you. First is Pat Roach, the Utah woman who said >>>>that she and a number of her children had been abducted. She >>>>said that she awakened, believed there had been an intruder in >>>>the house, then called the police. Over the next two years she >>>>became convinced that the intruders had been alien creatures. <snip> >Let me go right back to your statement Kevin. Read right above. >You say Roach "awakened" (no paralysis), thought there was "an >intruder in the house" and called the police. Where is there a >UFO or a UFO abduction in that statement? Your next statement >Is that over the next 2 years she "became convinced" that the >intruders had been UFO aliens. How did Roach "become >convinced"? What or who did that to her? >This is not the ordinary UFO abduction case where there is clear >waking recollection of a UFO encounter, kidnapping, forced >boarding of a UFO and then an exam or whatever and a return to >earth, a complete story even if certain memory gaps are >allegedly found, the gaps are not like having the crucial events >of capture and return being missing from the account (some cases >are like that, but not all, and we might need to question >whether those are proper "UFO abductions" in the first place if >the UFO capture and return are missing in the story). Whereas >dreams are typically episodic and fragmentary. >>>Where is the "sleep paralysis" with Pat Roach? In the Osborne >>>case he woke up "paralyzed" but recalls no abduction into a UFO. >>>Where is that here with Roach? Where is the abduction into a >>>UFO? >>For Pat Roach, it came out of the discussion of her awakening >>and believing there was an intruder in the house. It also is >>implied in the transcripts from the first of the hypnotic >>regression sessions. >Is Sleep Paralysis "implied" in the Roach transcripts? Is that >what you are referring to here? I'm getting lost here. Why is it >only "implied"? Either she says she was paralyzed and could not >move, or she didn't. How did she call the police if she was >paralyzed since paralysis is not mentioned in your statement? >You're saying she "implied" she was paralyzed but how then does >she not know that when she calls the police? I understand >amnesia and "missing time," what I'm questioning is your >original statement which claims as you say "let's take a look >around and see if we can find some examples [of Sleep Paralysis >UFO abduction cases] for you" and then your first example of Pat >Roach had no mention of any Sleep Paralysis or even any UFO! >Only now that I question that do you bring those essential >elements in, but in a confusing way. I'm sorry, this was my mistake. I assumed that you were familiar with the Roach case (though there is no real reason why you should be) and because of that, I didn't fully explain the case. Roach was "captured," taken onto the craft and examined. She was returned to the house, where she "awakened" to the trauma of her kids screaming and the cat screaming. In the transcript it is implied that she awakened unable to move, something that she did say between the sessions. Of course, the paralysis only lasts briefly, and once the victim is able to move even the smallest amount, the paralysis is broken=E2=80=A6 at which time she was able to call the police. I will point out that one I explored this case in 1976, I was unaware of sleep paralysis and did not ask the appropriate follow-up questions. Had I done so then, I have no doubt that I would have been accused of leading the witness, though it is quite clear to me that Dr. Harder, who did the hypnotic regression, led Roach to the points he wanted to reach=E2=80=A6 a confirmation of the Betty and Barney Hill aabduction. >>With Osborne, it was Budd Hopkins who produced the testimony in >>his books, associating Osborne with the UFOs. >And what are the statistics on UFO abductees being paralyzed, >what percentage were asleep when kidnapped, etc.? Are these the >only 2 cases out of several hundred or possibly 1,000+ UFO >abductions where you can cite evidence of some possible Sleep >Paralysis? How many cases of paralysis are associated with UFO's >or entities employing a device or ray beam that causes the >paralysis? See below=E2=80=A6 >>And, I again don't completely understand your point because >>Roach talked about being taken into the UFO, she describes the >>interior and even told me where the craft had landed. >None of this being "taken into the UFO" was in your original >paragraph I was responding to (see above in the chevrons >>> for >the actual text and see for yourself). That was my question. >>The point, once again, was that here were two cases in which >>sleep paralysis could have played an important part. That was >>what Stan had asked for. <snip> >Again, is that it? Just 2 cases out of possibly 1,000+ UFO >abductions? No, the point was that Stan said he knew of no cases in which sleep paralysis was a viable explanation. These two fit that bill. However, in Ed Bullard's, The UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases, published by the Fund for UFO Research, Bullard noted in case 193e, "Lori Briggs," page C-181, "Dragged from sleep by a strange force Lori found herself paralyzed and unable to open her eyes." Under hypnosis, she reported a humanoid four feet tall. In later abductions (193f) she describes a domed disk. I mention this so there is no confusion here. It isn't just about her awakening and believing she was paralyzed, but also about her memories, recovered under hypnosis, about the creatures and the craft. In case 193b, on page C-180, Emily Cronin and Jan Whitley, relate they were driving when both women became tired, so they pulled off the road to sleep. Both women consciously remembered seeing a light, heard a high-pitched whine and felt paralyzed by it. Under hypnosis, Emily remembered a tall humanoid. The witnesses concentrated on moving, and when successful, the paralysis ended and the light and the being were both gone. I might point out here that this sounds like classic sleep paralysis. In a later abduction, Emily reported a luminous "white bubble." Let me describe what has become the typical abduction case. "An unsuspecting woman is in her room preparing to go to bed. She gets into bed, reads a while, turns off the light, and drifts off into a peaceful night's sleep. In the middle of the night she turns over and lies on her back. She is awakened by a light that seems to be glowing in her room. The light moves toward her bed and takes the shape of a small 'man' with a bald head and huge black eyes. She is terrified. She wants to run but she cannot move. She wants to scream but she cannot speak. The "man' moves toward her and looks deeply into her eyes. Suddenly she is calmer and she 'knows' that the 'man' is not going to hurt her." This could easily be a description of an episode of sleep paralysis. Oh yes, the quote is from page 49 of Secret Life by David Jacobs. So the point here has always been to refute Stan's suggestion that there are no abduction cases that can be explained by sleep paralysis. I presented two, which were apparently not enough, and have added to those. I had shown that dreams seem to be the precipitating factor in a few cases, which means the witness had some kind of dream that lead to further investigation usually under hypnosis that suggested an abduction. And to suggest that
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:26:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:07:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:36:30 +0100 >Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms >There is a reference to hallucinations occuring in cataplexy >attacks lasting more than a few minutes, here: >http://sleepdisorderchannel.com/narcolepsy/symptom.shtml Thank you, I'll check this out when I get the chance. >I have seen references to the sudden onset REM sleep associated >with narcoplexy producing dreams of exceptional clarity and >realism in a couple of TV documentaries. >Lucid dreams can have a vividness and narrational quality quite >different from ordinary dreams, so there seems no reason to >assume that there are not dreams as vivid as these lucid dreams, >but without the insight. I suspect dreams vary from person to >person in clarity and narrational quality. Well, lucid dreams by definition have a different "narrational quality" to non-lucid dreams, since lucid dreams are under the conscious control of the percipient. The problem with lucid dreams as a solution to the abduction problem, is that they really just replace one mystery with another. For lucid dreams to work as an explanation, we would need to have some clear idea of what causes lucid dreams, and we should be able to predict in advance what form such dreams will take, and also us what sort of narrative structure will and will not occur. And these predictions should include some which are genuinely novel, and don't just tell us things we already know. The problem is that if we don't work this way, then we invariably end up just projecting on to the data whatever patterns we want to see in it. Psychology has a long and regrettable history of doing exactly this. >For what look very much like dreams presented as abduction >experiences see Kathariana Wilson's, The Alien Jigsaw, 1993.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:08:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:10:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:16:59 EDT >Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms >I do not know how you got me defining it as "a complete loss of >muscle tone" when I was so crystal clear in saying it was a full >range from minimal partial loss to full loss, let me repeat from >the statement I made (above): "Cataplexy is the loss of >voluntary muscle tone (strength) and ranges in degree of >severity all the way up to total loss of voluntary muscle >control." Sorry, I meant to say "partial or complete" but missed out the word "partial". >>However I do want to >>emphasize that this is not the clinical use of the term, and >>nor is it the meaning which is used in the literature on sleep >>disorders. >Well it is the meaning used in the old sleep literature but has >now been increasingly used or misused so that "cataplexy" is an >abnormal state associated _only_ with narcolepsy, <snip> This is not my understanding, and the example you give: >http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/Articles.ASP?articleid=S0207D02 seems to me to use the term in its usual clinical sense, but I doubt if this is worth discussing further. >>Now I think this is very confusing. What do you mean by a full >>narcoleptic attack? Are you referring to sleep attacks (the >>definitive symptom of narcolepsy)? It seems not, since you refer >>to dreaming in a conscious state. I don't understand what this >>means. >See below. I'm afraid my question here was also confusing. I was asking whether you meant sleep attacks (with possible sleep paralysis at their onset) or cataplexy, which is a fully conscious state. It seems from your reply that you were referring to the former. <snip> >>Also, so far as I know (and I'm not certain because I haven't >>been able to check up on this definitively) specific episodes of >>cataplexy are not supposed to be associated with hallucinations, >>since cataplexy is a fully conscious state, and not an REM >>state. If anyone knows differently however I'd appreciate >>knowing. >In 1991 UCLA and Stanford University scientists established that >the same cells in the brain governing narcoleptic cataplexy are >the same brain cells governing normal REM dream sleep (Science, >May 31, 1991, Siegel, et al., Neuronal Activity in Narcolepsy: >Identification of Cataplexy-Related Cells in Medial Medulla, >vol. 283: 1315-1318). Later researchers discovered a second >area of the brain involved in both REM dream sleep and >narcoleptic cataplexy (Wu, et al., Locus Coeruleus Neurons: >Cessation of Activity During Cataplexy, Neuroscience, 1999, >91(4):1389-1399). >http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/91/910624Arc1283.html I'm not sure why you've included this reference, unless it's meant to contradict my statement that cataplexy is a fully conscious state and not an REM state. However the neural mechanisms described here refer specifically to motor inhibition (the role of the brainstem in motor inhibition during sleep has been studied for some time). There is a great deal more to REM- stage sleep than just motor inhibition. >Here again from the July 2002 Sleep Review journal is a >description of narcolepsy where it is mentioned that sometimes >narcolepts experience REM dreaming or hallucinations while still >awake or conscious and while experiencing muscle paralysis: >"The two other primary symptoms of narcolepsy are hypnagogic >hallucinations and sleep paralysis, which can also be quite >frightening. But because they usually occur immediately before >and after sleep, they are less visible to the public. ... The keywords are "immediately before and after sleep". >"Sleep paralysis may accompany the hallucinations, but often >occurs independently. It is a frightening experience upon >falling asleep or awakening, to be unable to move your limbs, >talk, or even breathe deeply. Like the other main symptoms of >narcolepsy, hallucinations and sleep paralysis are normal sleep >behaviors characteristic of REM or dream sleep. Normally, dreams >occur as a late stage of sleep. But for persons with narcolepsy >who, because of fragmented sleep, pass into dreams immediately >or even before falling completely asleep, the dream and/or >paralysis is experienced when still somewhat awake."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Holman From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:05:54 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:27:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Holman >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:32:55 +0100 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:58:24 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>I agree with the others; looks like an imaging artifact. ><snip> >>So you've got (at least) two digitisation effects going on: ><snip> >>So yet another Martian anomaly claim bites the dust..... ><snip> >Mr Holman went from a subjective personal opinion - to a firm >conclusion - to a dismissal of data from consideration, in three >paragraphs, all without further detailed analysis of that data. If I was unclear about the "two digitisation effects", I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that they were definitely causing the image artifacts. It was the pixellated nature of the so- called structures that led me to conclude that they weren't real. As for my dismissal of the data, it's tentative, as always. But thank you for spurring me on to look a little deeper - though this has only reinforced my original conclusion. Go to http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/first/24.11.2004_eng.shtml and download the hi-res colour image (the overhead view, not the perspective ones) and then the first hi-res greyscale image. http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/first/24.11.2004/Hale_Crater_co.jpg http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/first/24.11.2004/Hale_Crater_nd1.jpg In the colour image, you *can* see the so-called anomalies, all over the image (not just in the crater basin as indicated in the original article, but also in flat areas elsewhere in the image). So this appears to be the image that has been draped over the perspective views of the digital elevation model that we were originally looking at. This image confirms the pixellated nature of the so-called anomalies. But contrary to my first impression, they are not *quite* square with the borders of the image. In fact, they aren't quite parallel with each other, either - the lines down the bottom are more nearly true than the ones at the top, it seems to me. Now look at the grey-scale image. It will immediately be apparent that it is significantly higher resolution than the colour image. It will also immediately be apparent that there is no sign whatsoever of the so-called anomalies. It's hard to imagine why they would show up in lower-resolution images but not higher-resolution ones. I therefore conclude - again - that they are imaging artifacts, probably introduced in the creation of the colour image. Still, questions remain. One is why is the pixellation of the anomalies not square with the borders of the image? I suspect it has to do with the way the images are taken. They aren't taken as a single image (the way an ordinary digital camera works), but rather as narrow strips taken in succession (with the different stereo and colour images being recorded simultaneously) which are then combined to form the large images we see on the web page. http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/kamera/kameraeng.shtml http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/kamera/aufnahmetechnik4eng.html But while this is taking place, the spacecraft is moving along its orbit, and so the relative position and angle of the camera and the image target will be changing continuously, depending upon such things as the the inclination and height of the orbit and the latitude and longitude of the image target. This page has some more about this, it mentions changing the image integration time at different orbital heights to preserve pixel quadrature (ie maintaining their size, I think) but it's either too late at night or I'm too thick to see how this works. http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/kamera/aufnahmetechnik2eng.html I think this changing perspecive as Mars Express orbits could easily explain the non-parallel lines of pixels. When the final image is constructed, these would then be corrected using photogrammetric techniques to produce a square image. The other problem I see is, why is the colour image of lower resolution the the greyscale, when it is taken with the same camera? Here, I think the answer is compression. Due to the amounts of data being taken and the low bitrate back to Earth, sometimes the individual pixels are averaged over 2x2, 4x4 or even 8x8 pixels (4, 16 or 64 pixels total), which results in smaller images. http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/kamera/kameraeng.shtml Now, this Word document lists the signal-to-noise ratio for the both the greyscale and colour lines of the CCD. http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/kamera/tableccd.doc Significantly, for the colour lines it notes that the ratio is for a 2x2 macro pixel, which suggests to me that the colour lines are routinely compressed in this way. It might be that one or more of the three colour channels was even compressed with 4x4 or 8x8 pixels, and perhaps combining different resolution colour channels can give this effect. I don't know. >He wasn't alone. This subject has exposed the knee-jerk >debunkers yet again. That's a heartfelt plea for rational debate, if ever I saw one. >With more intelligence (and scientific integrity):- Nick >Balaskas [Tue 29th] - noted that if image was 'processing >artifact' then _non-matching_ 'processing artifacts' would >appear in other pictures of same area; >Bruce Maccabee [Wed 30th] pointed out that if image was a >'camera artifact' then the same artifact would appear in _all_ >shots from that camera (under identical conditions); >Eleanor White [30th] observed that if image was a >pixelation-artifact of any kind then same effects (in one form >or another) would be found over the _entire_ original image. That's all very interesting, but irrelevant to what I wrote. Nick's statement in no way contradicts mine, and anyway, it depends on whether or not other images of the same area were manipulated in precisely the same way as this one was. Bruce's is true, but I didn't say it was a "camera artifact". Eleanor's is also true, and as I showed above, you can see pixellation across the entire image - at least in the flat areas, which is to be expected (the rocky or hilly areas would destroy any such patterns). The main point I wanted to get across was that the image in question is not a straightforward photo of the Martian surface. Instead, it's a computer-generated view of a 3D digital model of the Martian terrain, which in turn is computed from several different optical images of the Hale crater. Whether or not you agree with my conclusions, you will *at least* need to understand how the image was created, what the possible effects involved in this process are, and allow for them. I see no evidence that the author of the original article even understood what he was looking at, let alone performed any analysis beyond using the zoom function in Photoshop. Instead he preferred to make vastly exaggerated claims about the irrefutable nature of what he thinks he's found, and to rave about conspiracies and image tampering. >To quote Giorgio De Santillana - "That this had to be stressed >explicitly reveals the steady decline of scientific ethics." >("Hamlet's Mill) I'm confused. Are you implying that Bruce Maccabee is lacking in scientific ethics? Because as far as I know, he's the only
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:17:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:29:55 -0400 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Groff >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:42:59 -0700 >Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:55:40 +0100 >>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:36:14 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>>Source: BBC Devon >>>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/news_features/2004/ufos.shtml >>>>9th February 2004 >>>>How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>>Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott have never been given >>>>an explanation about what they saw >>>>This is the strange tale of a UFO sighting which was >>>>reported by two Devon policemen and placed in Britain's >>>>X-Files. More than 35 years on, there's still no >>>>explanation as to what it was that the two officers saw >>>>in the sky above West Devon that October night..... >><snip> >>>The two policemen could write a book about the event, >>>wonderful descriptions, duration and all sorts of data, >>>but I still cannot catalog the case without the vitals. >><snip> >>>Please pass this note on to anyone who can get better >>>time/place coordinates. >>The sighting by Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott has been >>relatively well known on this side of the pond for quite a while >>(appearing, for example, as the entirety of the first chapter of >>a mass market paperback book in England in 1969). It is fairly >>often referred to as "the flying thing" or (more frequently) >>"the flying cross" sighting. >>If you want more details, will find quite a few articles >>including the following by doing a Google search for: "flying >>cross" Willey Waycott: >>http://www.ianridpath.com/ufo/flyingcross.htm >>http://users.macunlimited.net/ianrid/ufos/flyingcross ><snip> >>Hope this helps you Larry. >Hello Isaac and thanks much! You helped more than you may have >thought. >I had the case listed, but could not find it without the date >and place. I have those as Hatherleigh Devon, around 0400 hours >on 24 OCT 1967. >My sources were Phenomenes Spatiaux quarterly (Groupe GEPA) #14 >and #16; and also the APRO Bulletin vol.30 #6. I also have Tim >Good's above TS but could not find reference on page 64. >Notably, the 2 policemen had mistook Venus for a "flying cross", >but still accepted the astronomer's explanation later. I'd like >to know how that happens. Venus as a 'ball of light' seems more >plausible. >Neither of my sources gave the Venus finding, just the original >mystery. Do any of the sources on your long list cite Venus or >mention the astronomer? >Given that Venus stands, this sounds like an excellent entry for >my discredited sightings list online: >http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html >...especially in view of the many citations you kindly provided. >May I take it that most serious ufologists there accept the >Venus explanation? Hi Larry, Isaac Just out of curiosity I looked at a skyview from Hatherleigh at 4am Oct 24, 1967 just to see if Venus would have been visible and indeed it was. It's altitude was almost 12=B0 above the horizon at that time. It's phase was less than half at about 41% but I don't know if this would account for the "cross" shape. Hatherleigh: 50deg 49'15.6" N 4deg 03'57.6" W Venus: 4am Oct 24, 1967 Az: 96:19:57; Alt: 11:51:12 RA: 11:03:27; Dec: 5:02:56 Ecliptic Lon: 165:01:59; Lat: -0:55:07 Galactic Lon: 248:45:16; Lat: 56:06:22 Rising: Oct 24, 1967; 2:41:03 A.M. Transit: Oct 24, 1967; 9:10:21 A.M. Setting: Oct 24, 1967; 3:39:06 P.M. Phase: 40.9%, Phase angle: 100.52=F8 Apparent Diameter: 29.50"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Holman From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:23:37 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:30:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Holman >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:32:42 -0400 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >Still I'm not convinced of obvious pixelization as the culprit >even though I mentioned it myself. For one thing many of the >pixels don't line up either vertically or horizontally with one >another, stereo image or not. Yes, you're right. I think this is because the so-called anomalies are actually in a regular image that has been draped over a perspective view computed from the digital elevation model, which is essentially a relief map. So even though they are (nearly) parallel on that image, when draped over the DEM they will not be parallel as they follow the contours of the Martian surface. >It looks like some kind of >mottling as seen through a polarizing filter. I wonder if this >might have something to do with the tinting on the camera lens. It could be something like that, though I don't think this instrument has a polarising filter (the colour images do use colour filters, though, perhaps there's something going on there). One thing's for sure, anomaly-hunters should make sure
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 UK UFO Contact Seminars From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:42:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:43:20 -0400 Subject: UK UFO Contact Seminars www.beyondroswell.com ----- From: Mark Bennett <markhbennett.nul> To: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:00 PM Subject: UFO Contacts Seminars Dear Philip, We in The Aetherius Society are hosting a couple of UFO Contacts Seminars - one in April and one in June - details below - and I'd really appreciate it if you could pass the word around to anyone you think might be sincerely interested in coming along. Might you even be willing to take some of our leaflets? If so, where should I send them? Cheers, Mark --- Mike Allen, Richard Lawrence, Ananda Sirisena The UFO Contacts Seminar - Visitors From Other Worlds Sunday 17 April 2Pm-5Pm Saturday 11 June 2Pm-5Pm This seminar, hosted by top radio presenter Mike Allen, will change your view of the cosmos forever. International bestselling author Richard Lawrence, who has for decades been at the forefront of the movement to get the truth about UFOs into the public domain, joins with researcher and Disclosure Project expert Ananda Sirisena, to produce startling evidence suggesting that not only are extraterrestrials visiting Earth, but also that they are trying to help us. - Audio-visual evidence featuring high-ranking military and governmental sources - Space contacts throughout the ages - UFOs have been around for a long time! - Proof of government cover-ups - sifting through the truth and lies - The chance to listen to recordings of channelled messages from other worlds - The spiritual dimension of the extraterrestrial presence in our skies A sell-out success when it was held in Berkshire last June, this seminar promises to be an unforgettable afternoon packed with fascinating facts, figures, theories and ideas, which, whether you are a believer in extraterrestrial life or not, will give you a rare feast of food for thought. Admission 30 Pounds Sterling (concessions 20 Pounds Sterling) Richard has been researching the truth about UFOs for over twenty-five years, and has launched many a campaign for governments to release UFO-related data. He is an international director of The Aetherius Society, and author of Contacts with the Gods from Space, which he wrote with the late Dr. George King. He has, for over 20 years, been very influential in bringing the UFO debate to the public, appearing on hundreds of radio and TV shows, and often confronting highly sceptical interviewers. www.richardlawrence.co.uk Ananda is a UFO researcher of many years' experience. He has spoken at international conferences and has had several pieces of his research published. He is one of the authors of The Case for the Face: scientists examine the case for alien artefacts on Mars and has been interviewed on radio and TV throughout the world. He is a member of the Society for Planetary SETI Research and a representative of The Disclosure Project. www.disclosureproject.org Broadcasting legend Mike Allen has presented shows on Capital Radio, Talk Sport, LBC and many other TV and radio stations. His deep interest in the unexplained led to the creation of his pioneering LBC show 'The Phenomena Files' - which proved to be the benchmark for others to follow. We are thrilled to have such a talented and versatile presenter host this important event.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Re: Heifer Mutilated in Coronel Suarez Argentina - From: Fern Belzil <fbelzil.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:33:30 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:46:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Heifer Mutilated in Coronel Suarez Argentina - >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:16:51 -0400 >Subject: Heifer Mutilated in Coronel Suarez Argentina >INEXPLICATA >The Journal of Hispanic Ufology >April 3, 2005 >Source: CIUFOS-La Pampa >Date: March 30, 2005 >Mutilated Heifer In Coronel Suarez >A mutilated Aberdeen Angus heifer was found on March 24, 2005 in >the town of Coronel Suarez, province of Buenos Aires >(Argentina). The carcass was reported along Provincial Highway >No. 85, on the shoulder. <snip> Hi: My name is Fern Belzil and I am the only mutilation investigator in Canada, I would sure like to have pictures and a short report of this mutilated heifer. I would like to use it in my presentations that I will be giving across Canada shortly. I have been to close to a 100 cases since 1996. Please keep in touch.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 5 Last Screening Of Phoenix Lights At Harkins Shea From: Dr. Lynne Kitei <drlynne.nul> Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:43:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 08:52:48 -0400 Subject: Last Screening Of Phoenix Lights At Harkins Shea Don't miss the final show at Harkins Shea 14 The Phoenix Lights Documentary Sunday April 10 at 2 pm Harkins Shea 14 Movie Theatre 7354 E. Shea Blvd Scottsdale, AZ 85260 [At Scottsdale & Shea] This groundbreaking Documentary, based on the bestselling book, The Phoenix Lights... A Skeptic's Discovery That We Are Not Alone, stars Arizona's own eyewitnesses, military, a former Phoenix Vice-Mayor, University-based scientists and experts in the field. It is produced by local physician and author, Lynne D. Kitei, M.D., in collaboration with Steve Lantz Productions. For further information and advanced tickets [recommended] contact: Harkins Shea 14 Theater at (480) 948-6555 or www.harkinstheatres.com and www.movietickets.com DVD & 2 minute trailer available at: www.thephoenixlights.net
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:47:46 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:27:27 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Smith >From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:20:23 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 12:20:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>Forget the March 2004 flap!!! Do you know how much work we all >>had to do on that! I know how much work I had to do and it is >>not pleasant to see that regardless how much work you do on >>something, some folk will _never_ accept or even address >>responsibly the work. >Take it easy, man. I am not saying to drop off your efforts in >the garbage can. Not at all. I am just saying "give it a break >and let's talk about something else for a while". Why so >angry??? Angry? More like pissed-off. The problem I have with life, UFOs and liberals (not implying you are one) is that if you confront folk with facts, they want to slide to another issue without resolving the issue you spent alot of time working on. But as I showed you, I am willing to "move_on.org" to the next item in the show. >>Although the video seems interesting, the problem with it is >>that I can do nothing to confirm or deny video or photos like >>this. If one had taken stereo video/photos we might be able to >>understand the distance better, if we had the winds data a >>various altutudes then we could rule out balloons. It certainly >>looks like a flock of tied together balloons. >Would it help if you get the DVD or the file with the images ??? Yes. The tiny images you provided are good to get an overall impression, but not useful for analysis. It would help if you had: - the camera type - the camera settings (I doubt you do, people generally don't, that's why we all liked the FLIR video, it at least had _some_ data on the field of view) - orientation of the camera - latitude and longitude of the camera - time of day/ date - detailed wind profile other the site, other weather data for the site -discussion with the airtraffic control as to appearance of objects on radar in that location. >>If a spectrometer had been used to view the objects we might >>glean something of what they are made of via the reflected light >>or emitted light. A duplication of the event using mylar or >>white balloons tied together may help assess it. >>Whether birds could possibly flock like this I doubt but I am >>not an avian expert. >>It seems like they are beyond the clouds (what is the cloud >>height?). That's all I can think of. >I really admire your and everyone's else efforts towards finding >explanations in Ufology. I only wonder if wouldn't we profit >much more in terms of understanding of the UFO Phenomena and >taking some advantage of that understanding _if_ we spend more >time on the real images? In that case, what about taking a very >close look about the new Mexico flotillas ??? Although in theory what you say is nice, remember that there are alot of UFO videos and images out there. One can't reasonably dump them into the lap of the UFO collective and expect them to drop everything to work on them. The time required to examine even one in the detail it needs (to do a professional job) is large, plus there is no money in it. It is up to the individual who originally got the UFO video, as part of his UFO investigator work, to gather enough data to make it worth our while. The local UFO investigator is at the site so should be able to get data better than others located around the world! I just happened to "luck out" with Campeche because I am very familiar with satellite image/data repositories. If you had other data besides "just" video, then it would be more valuable to UFOlogy because it wants to "prove" the phenomena exists. With "only" a video and no backup data, then its value is degraded considerably. If you had two separate folk at different locations filming simulatenously, then that would be really valuable. Radar, spectrum, audio, radio frequency in addition would have also made it more valuable. So go ahead and post some high resolution images from the video
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Peter Jennings Has Cancer From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:40:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:56:28 -0400 Subject: Peter Jennings Has Cancer
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:20:32 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:59:38 -0400 Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell - Hall >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:52:59 +0200 >Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell >>From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:00:59 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell >>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:26:28 EST >>>Subject: Re: The Secret Of Roswell >>>>Source: Phenomena Magazine >>>>http://tinyurl.com/4dtlc >>>>Friday, April 1, 2005 >>>>The Secret Of Roswell >>>>By: Stuart Miller >>>>News Editor >>Great April Fools Joke. >Yes, it does look that way. >It could also be a nice debunking operation (look how silly >Roswell is, again !). >For the record, it is no GOA but GAO - General Accounting >Office. GAO did not give the Mogul explanation, and it did not >accept it either. <snip> Gildas, It was General Accounting Office (of the U.S. Congress) for many, many years but fairly recently the name was changed to Government Accountability Office.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Secrecy News -- 04/05/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:25:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:01:28 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/05/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 31 April 5, 2005 ** JUDGE ORDERS CIA TO DISCLOSE 1963 BUDGET ** MEMO OF UNDERSTANDING ON INFORMATION SHARING ** 2004 ISOO REPORT TO THE PRESIDENT ** STATEMENT OF CHARGES AGAINST SAMUEL R. BERGER ** NEW FROM CRS JUDGE ORDERS CIA TO DISCLOSE 1963 BUDGET A federal judge yesterday ordered the Central Intelligence Agency to disclose its 1963 budget, marking the first time that a court has compelled the CIA to surrender intelligence budget information. It is "ORDERED that the defendant [CIA] shall disclose the CIA budget figure for 1963 by May 6, 2005," wrote Judge Ricardo M. Urbina. The April 4 order was issued in response to a motion from the Federation of American Scientists, and over the opposition of the CIA, in the Freedom of Information Act proceeding Aftergood v. CIA. (D.C. District Case No. 01-2524). http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/1947/rmu040405.pdf In fact, the 1963 CIA budget figure -- $550 million -- is already known. Although CIA said it could not be disclosed, FAS showed (with the assistance of Prof. David Barrett of Villanova University) that it had been quietly declassified and released years ago. As a result, Judge Urbina determined that it was no longer exempt from disclosure under the FOIA. Meanwhile, the 1962 CIA budget and the 1964 CIA budget, like most other intelligence budget figures since 1947, continue to be withheld. It is CIA's contention that disclosure of such budget figures could lead to the compromise of an intelligence method, namely the method by which Agency funding is hidden in the published budget. The court accepted this argument, based on the sworn declaration of Acting Director of Central Intelligence John McLaughlin in September 2004. But as it happens, CIA's argument is false. It is methodologically impossible to deduce or infer the clandestine funding mechanism from the total Agency budget figure, since there are too many variables involved. First of all, the number and identity of budget line items used to channel CIA funds is not constant. But even if those were somehow known, which they generally are not, there is no way to determine how the budget total is allocated among them. Judge Urbina rejected this critique of ours, concluding that it is a subjective opinion that is not legally compelling. Nevertheless, it is a fact that the disclosure of the CIA 1963 budget figure has not compromised the funding mechanism for that year. (Whether it would matter if it had been compromised is a separate question.) The larger issue here is the transparency and accountability of the intelligence budget process. The Silberman-Robb WMD Commission said last week that the new Director of National Intelligence needed to revamp the budget process in order to effectively assert his presumed powers over the intelligence bureaucracy: "The leverage that these [new DNI] budget authorities were intended to provide, however, cannot be effectively exercised without an overhaul of the Intelligence Community's notoriously opaque budget process, which obscures how resources are committed to, and spent against, various intelligence programs." "The DNI could wield his budgetary authorities with far more effectiveness if he were to build an end-to-end budgetary process that allowed for clarity and accountability -- a process similar to the Planning, Programming, and Budgeting System employed by the Department of Defense" (page 314). Although the WMD Commission -- unlike the 9-11 Commission -- did not explicitly say so, budget disclosure is almost certainly a prerequisite to this kind of intelligence budget restructuring. MEMO OF UNDERSTANDING ON INFORMATION SHARING A 2003 interagency Memorandum of Understanding on Information Sharing spells out that "preventing, preempting, and disrupting terrorist threats to our homeland" is an "overriding priority" that takes precedence over "the protection of intelligence ... Sources and methods" (sect. 3a). While this might seem self-evident to any sensible person, it is almost unheard of for an intelligence agency to concede that protecting intelligence sources and methods is a lower priority than anything at all. But the CIA endorsed this language in a March 4, 2003 "Memorandum of Understanding Between the Intelligence Community, Federal Law Enforcement Agencies, and the Department of Homeland Security Concerning Information Sharing." While the signatories' intention of overcoming past prejudices is clear, the twenty page memorandum is so dense and complex that it may itself be an obstacle to information sharing. The unclassified interagency memo was released under the FOIA on March 29, 2005 following a one-year review process, whose duration is another sign of a defective information policy. A copy is available here (875 KB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/mou-infoshare.pdf As some readers have noticed, the FAS web site has been experiencing "technical difficulties" for much of the past week, with slow loading times and some files inaccessible. Normal service should be restored within a day. 2004 ISOO REPORT TO THE PRESIDENT The Information Security Oversight Office, which oversees the national security classification system government-wide, issued its 2004 annual report to the President yesterday. ISOO reported a total of 15,645,237 classification actions, up from 14.2 million in 2003. The latest report, full of illuminating detail on agency classification and declassification practices, can be found here: http://www.archives.gov/isoo/reports/2004_annual_report.html or here (925 KB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/2004rpt.pdf STATEMENT OF CHARGES AGAINST SAMUEL R. BERGER "On or about September 2, 2003 and October 2, 2003, ... Defendant Samuel R. Berger... knowingly removed classified documents from the National Archives and Records Administration and stored and retained such documents at places... which... were unauthorized locations for storage or retention of such classified documents," according to a March 31 statement of charges against the former national security adviser. http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/03/berger.pdf On April 1, Mr. Berger pled guilty to the charges. NEW FROM CRS Some recent publications of the Congressional Research Service include: "U.S. Defense Articles and Services Supplied to Foreign Recipients: Restrictions on Their Use," updated March 14, 2005 (thanks to Colby Goodman of Amnesty International USA): http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL30982.pdf "VXX Presidential Helicopter: Background and Issues for Congress," April 1, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS22103.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Argentina: Strange Object Crossing Solar Disk From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:30:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:04:19 -0400 Subject: Argentina: Strange Object Crossing Solar Disk Source: CIUFOS-LaPampa Date: 04/05/05 Argentina: Strange Object Crossing Solar Disk During an early morning skywatch, members of Ciufos-LaPampa� were able to capture images of a strange object in Earth�s upper atmosphere flying across the solar disk. At the time that the sighting took place, the skies over Santa Rosa, La Pampa (Argentina) were covered by stratocumulus clouds, which allowed for intermittent glimpses of the sun. This sort of natural filter allowed viewing the sun in plain sight and to detect the presence of an object in front of it, which remained static for a few minutes. This unexpected and highly unusual event allowed researchers to record the event for some two minutes, after which the object in question disappeared. Having made the corresponding vidcaps and digitized them, they reveal the presence of a triangular object with greater volume in its central part. A JVC camcorder was employed in this recording. The materials obtained remain in the possession of Ciufos-LaPampa.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 The Secret of Roswell An April Fools Joke From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:31:22 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:06:34 -0400 Subject: The Secret of Roswell An April Fools Joke Before this gets any further out of hand, I confirm that the Secret of Roswell article was an April Fools joke. It wasn't a hoax, it wasn't an attempt at disinformation, it wasn't poking fun at Roswell or at Ufology, it wasn't in fact intended as anything more than it was. My wish was that people would read it and then say, "That was a good one". Hopefully. Most April Fools jokes within ufology are feeble. What did we get this year? Crop circles on the White House Lawn and Bush to cancel the Space Shuttle programme. You know what you're getting before you even open your email. To those that had their emotions jerked around by it or were made to feel uncomfortable in some way, I offer my sincere apologies. If its any consolation, I've been left feeling discomfited by it as well. I've got horribly close to that thin line on the other side of which lurks the likes of skeptics like Andy Roberts and indeed some smug ufologists who think hoaxes are an appropriate tool within ufology as a means of - you can fill in the rest yourself; use words of more than three syllables, that end in "ly" and that sound suitably academic.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 14:06:21 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:09:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Ledger >From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:23:37 +1000 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 12:32:42 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>Still I'm not convinced of obvious pixelization as the culprit >>even though I mentioned it myself. For one thing many of the >>pixels don't line up either vertically or horizontally with one >>another, stereo image or not. >Yes, you're right. I think this is because the so-called >anomalies are actually in a regular image that has been >draped over a perspective view computed from the digital >elevation model, which is essentially a relief map. So >even though they are (nearly) parallel on that image, >when draped over the DEM they will not be parallel as >they follow the contours of the Martian surface. >>It looks like some kind of mottling as seen through a >>polarizing filter. I wonder if this might have something to do >>with the tinting on the camera lens. >It could be something like that, though I don't think this >instrument has a polarising filter (the colour images do use >colour filters, though, perhaps there's something going on >there). One thing's for sure, anomaly-hunters should make sure >they know all the ins and outs of how the images were created >before they run around shouting eureka! Brett Looking at the hi-rez images in medium tones tends to suggest that the anomaly is generated through either color production or the generation of terrain details in the stereo imaging. I can see evidence only of some mottling in the hi-rez images but none of the anomalies. There are other images attributed to Mars Express and the NASA satellites that are arresting. The bushes are very intriguing. Suggestions of fluid resevoirs are also puzzling.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Biogenic Potentials - Engineering Natural From: Rob Kritkausky <robkrit.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 10:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:14:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Biogenic Potentials - Engineering Natural >From: Bob Shell >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:44:12 -0500 >Subject: Re: Biogenic Potentials - Engineering Natural Machines >>From: Rob Kritkausky >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:53:01 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Biogenic Potentials - Engineering Natural Machines >Manganese is a transition >metal with nine valence states (most on the periodic table) and >an interesting ability to cooperate with some bacteria as they >oxidize a host. The Mn is able to accept extra electrons from >the bacteria, transforming it into the variant Mn4, which is >insoluble. It can even shed the electron via other chemical >reactions. Also this Pedomicrobium, with its specific attraction >to gold, would seem consistent with properties we might attempt >to engineer into a lifeform's DNA. >>This just caught my eye. When I went out to New Mexico to try >>and find the location of the AA cameraman's crash site, I found >>that the whole area was just full of old manganese mines. The >>area has lots of manganese compounds in the soil. Maybe the >>"rock varnish" seen on many rocks there is similar to what is >>being discussed here. >>Bob Shell Bob: I am not familiar with the area or the AA case for that matter. However, the two locations here do have some similarities in that they are both populated with a large amount of ancient rock petroglyphs. At Deem Hills the oldest have been dated by ASU as being as old as 8000 years. Interestingly, a couple of the glyphs: http://tinyurl.com/5qxgx resemble the sighting that was filmed over the site. http://www.worldblend.net/worldblendbu/UPDATE/aug19.wmv Daytime backdrop: http://www.worldblend.net/worldblendbu/PHOTOGRAPHY/IMAG012A.JPG If you are able to get an analysis done on the varnish composition, it would be of benefit to determine the presence of any gram negative bacteria as well as the amino acids that usually accompany them. In particular a y-ABA protein that has no use in cell formation. There has been a noticeable increase in government funded (NASA-NSF) studies of this subject. I found it interesting as to how some of the study briefs referred to the processs/bacteria as Nanomachines. Another interesting bit about Manganese. A few days ago someone sent me a link concerning alien implants, a subject I know very little about. However, many of the photos resembled linked Mn nodes, which got me thinking...... theoretically these objects could receive a signal that could activate bacteria or enzymes that could take an extra electron from the Mn4, thus making it Mn2+ which is a Mn variance that can be broken down in the body. In other words, "This unit will self-destruct in T- ....." Hope
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Peter Jennings Diagnosed With Lung Cancer From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 11:37:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:18:56 -0400 Subject: Peter Jennings Diagnosed With Lung Cancer http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,152496,00.html Peter Jennings Diagnosed With Lung Cancer NEW YORK =97 Peter Jennings, chief ABC News anchorman for more than 20 years, has been diagnosed with lung cancer, the network said Tuesday. Jennings, 66, will begin chemotherapy as an outpatient next week and will continue anchoring "World News Tonight." In a memo to his staff, Jennings wrote, "I have been diagnosed with lung cancer. Yes, it was quite a surprise. As you all know, this is a challenge. I begin chemotherapy next week. I will continue to do the broadcast." ABC News president David Westin addressed staffers in another memo. "This morning, Peter Jennings told his senior staff at 'World News Tonight' that yesterday afternoon he was diagnosed with lung cancer," Westin wrote. "All of us at ABC News have watched over the years as Peter has led us on various assignments with strength and with courage. We've done our best to support him in these endeavors. "Now, Peter's been given a tough assignment. He's already bringing to this new challenge the courage and strength we've seen so often in his reporting from the field and in anchoring ABC News. I know that all of us will give him every bit of support that he needs and asks for. Peter will once again lead the way, but we will stand with him at every turn." Jennings is a former smoker who gave up the habit several years ago, the network said. In a 1996 Los Angeles Daily News article, Jennings confessed that he started smoking when he was 13 or 14 "using tea leaves wrapped up in toilet paper." He moved on to cigarettes and remained a heavy smoker until his children said they wouldn't let him in the house unless he quit. Dr. Janice P. Dutcher, a professor at New York Medical College, told FOX News that serious damage can sometimes already be done even if a person quits smoking. "We don't know when the cells turn malignant," she said, adding that the disease is survivable. "Most who are cured are cured from surgery," Dutcher said. "Sometimes we do [chemotherapy] first, [so the] tumor is more amenable, and do surgery after that." Jennings had been feeling ill for the past several months and was replaced Saturday as anchor for coverage of Pope John Paul II's death by Charles Woodruff . Nor did he travel to the area devastated by the Indian Ocean tsunami in December. ABC News said at the time that Jennings had an upper respiratory infection and was under doctor's orders not to travel. He did go to Iraq in January for that country's elections. Jennings last anchored "World News Tonight" on Friday. He informed ABC News staff of the diagnosis Tuesday morning and said he would anchor the broadcast when he feels up to it over the next few months. "There will be good days and bad, which means some days I may be cranky and some days really cranky," he told ABC News employees in the e-mailed memo. Charles Gibson, in Rome for the papal funeral, and Elizabeth Vargas will be Jennings' primary substitutes on "World News Tonight." Jennings first anchored ABC's evening newscast for two years in the 1960s, and after that was a Europe-based correspondent for the network, finally heading the London bureau before coming back to New York. He was an anchor again when ABC went to a multi-anchor format in 1978. ABC abandoned the approach in 1983 after Frank Reynolds died of cancer. Jennings has been the sole anchor since then. "World News Tonight" dominated the ratings during the late 1980s and early 1990s before being surpassed by NBC's Tom Brokaw . The broadcast is now a close second to "NBC Nightly News," currently anchored by Brokaw's successor Brian Williams. Jennings is the last of the troika of anchormen who dominated broadcast network news for the past two decades. Brokaw stepped down last year and Dan Rather left the "CBS Evening News" news
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:02:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:22:07 -0400 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Shough >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:42:59 -0700 >Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:55:40 +0100 >>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:36:14 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >Notably, the 2 policemen had mistook Venus for a "flying cross", >but still accepted the astronomer's explanation later. I'd like >to know how that happens. Venus as a 'ball of light' seems more >plausible. >Neither of my sources gave the Venus finding, just the original >mystery. Do any of the sources on your long list cite Venus or >mention the astronomer? >Given that Venus stands, this sounds like an excellent entry for >my discredited sightings list online: > >http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html > >...especially in view of the many citations you kindly provided. > >May I take it that most serious ufologists there accept the >Venus explanation? Hi Larry (Apologies to the List if this is answer is by now redundant; I've been travelling and off-line for a few days.) I remember this 1967 "flying cross" case well from the publicity at the time and from later books and articles. A brilliant Venus can appear "rayed" or spiky, or "bright, but not brilliant, star-spangled - just like looking through wet glass" as one of the policemen described the object. Moisture in the eye or atmospheric haze or a smudged/misted windscreen can all help. At 0400 the object was low on the E horizon. It appeared to recede rainbow-like ahead of the chasing car, speeding low over trees, and appeared to "react" to the twist and turns of the car, which is typical of an illusory motion due to the vehicle. I've checked the astronomical data. Venus was low on the horizon almost due E. It rose at 0341 local, very bright at magnitude - 3.8. Also the policemen said that the UFO was joined by a second similar, but less bright object, before they lost sight of it. Jupiter was also low on the E horizon, near Venus, only about 12 degrees above it at magnitude -0.7. Chances are good that this sighting was Venus (plus Jupiter) seen through patchy cloud, and similar sightings were made at different locations over the next 2 or 3 days. Opinion at the time swung in favour of mid-air refuelling exercises. A USAF exercise was reportedly underway at 26,000' above SW England and the tanker belly was said to be illuminated by a row of lights, but it turned out that this exercise was confined to the evening hours on the relevant date(s). Some sightings may have been caused by this, but IMO the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:36:04 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:45:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Sparks >From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:08:12 +0100 >Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 17:16:59 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms <snip> >>>However I do want to >>>emphasize that this is not the clinical use of the term, and >>>nor is it the meaning which is used in the literature on sleep >>>disorders. >>Well it is the meaning used in the old sleep literature but has >>now been increasingly used or misused so that "cataplexy" is an >>abnormal state associated _only_ with narcolepsy, <snip> >This is not my understanding, and the example you give: http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/Articles.ASP?articleid=S0207D02 >seems to me to use the term in its usual clinical sense, but I >doubt if this is worth discussing further. The "usual clinical sense" is as I stated in the parts you snipped out an improper distortion of the term "cataplexy" that deprives us of a single term for _normal_ full motor inhibition during REM dream sleep. Cataplexy used to be that term for the normal paralysis but now has been hijacked by sleep researchers and misused as a diagnostic sign of the _abnormal_ state in narcolepsy. The quote I gave and which you snipped out quite clearly does not support your definition of cataplexy but supports mine. I challenge you to come up with a single term for "normal full motor inhibition during REM dream sleep" now that cataplexy has been taken from that definitional role. And here is the quote again from July 2002 "Sleep Review": "...Cataplexy is a normal sleep behavior occurring at an abnormal time. It is characteristic of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep - that stage of nighttime sleep during which we dream. The loss of muscle tone is nature's way to prevent us from acting out our dreams. But for people with narcolepsy whose sleep is fragmented, such muscle paralysis suddenly appears often without warning during daytime wakefulness. It is usually triggered by an emotional response such as laughter, anger, surprise, competitive exertion, or elation." Thus cataplexy, in the old definition still used here, refers to both "normal sleep" and "abnormal" narcoleptic attacks. <snip> >>>Also, so far as I know (and I'm not certain because I haven't >>>been able to check up on this definitively) specific episodes of >>>cataplexy are not supposed to be associated with hallucinations, >>>since cataplexy is a fully conscious state, and not an REM >>>state. If anyone knows differently however I'd appreciate >>>knowing. <snip> >>Here again from the July 2002 Sleep Review journal is a >>description of narcolepsy where it is mentioned that sometimes >>narcolepts experience REM dreaming or hallucinations while still >>awake or conscious and while experiencing muscle paralysis: <snip> >>"Sleep paralysis may accompany the hallucinations, but often >>occurs independently. It is a frightening experience upon >>falling asleep or awakening, to be unable to move your limbs, >>talk, or even breathe deeply. Like the other main symptoms of >>narcolepsy, hallucinations and sleep paralysis are normal sleep >>behaviors characteristic of REM or dream sleep. Normally, dreams >>occur as a late stage of sleep. But for persons with narcolepsy >>who, because of fragmented sleep, pass into dreams immediately >>or even before falling completely asleep, the dream and/or >>paralysis is experienced when still somewhat awake."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Kinross Incident - Heath From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:07:52 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:58:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Kinross Incident - Heath >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:18:21 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:03:14 -0800 >>Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:26:31 EST >>>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith <snip> >>>Pieces of the jet were found several months later. >>Pieces of the jet found later? That slipped past me somehow, and >>its important. >>Can you verify this? Links or whatever? >Jerry Clark sent me a clipping from years later. It said that >the wreckage recovered could be from one of three aircraft, >including the Kinross interceptor. >No more information is available. >Brad agrees that we both saw the same news article which I have >temporarily misplaced. Jerry mentioned the new report in his >encyclopedia. Given the similarity of the news accounts, this is presumably from the same news articles from October 30th and 31st, 1968 that were published in the Sault Star which I referred to in a previous post on the same topic. It also might be from an article in a different newspaper that was relying on the same source information. The reason I was able to provide quotes from the articles is because I am referring directly to printouts I made from the microfilm of the original source publication. I am not relying on my memory of a news article I read several years ago. The article printed on October 31st made reference to other potential aircraft as follows: "North Ontario bushlands have closely kept the secret whereabouts of that F-89 Scorpion and at least seven other private and military aircraft lost without trace since that November 1953." The list of aircraft sounds like it was probably made by the reporters at the newspaper, rather than supplied by Transport Canada, the OPP, RCAF or USAF. The "missing aircraft" included: 1) a light aircraft that crashed in dense fog east of highway 17 North at highway 31 around 1963. 2) the February 1959 disappearance of Frank Wyman in a light aircraft over Lake Huron. 3) the disappearance of Wisconsin lawyer Thomas J Sanderson lost between Sault Ste. Marie and White River on Dec. 30, 1963. 4) an RCAF T-33 jet that disappeared January 1954 en route to North Bay (probably within 30 miles of North Bay). 5) a USAF T-33 jet trainer that crashed 18 miles south of Kincheloe Air Base in March 1960. With respect to these listed aircraft, the first three can almost definitely be eliminated as they were all light civilian aircraft. According to USAF Major J. H. Parker from Kincheloe Air Base who examined the wreckage which he "positively identified the stabilizer found early this week as belonging to a high performance military, jet aircraft". It also seems unlikely that the pieces were from the T-33 lost en route to North Bay as the parts were found about 250 miles west of North Bay (well outside the probable crash site for the T-33). It also seems unlikely that the parts could be from the T-33 that crashed south of Kincheloe Air Base in 1960 as the approximate crash site was 18 miles SOUTH of Kincheloe and the parts were found about 65 miles NORTH of Kincheloe. The location of the crash site was known with some certainty as one of the crew which bailed from the plane was recovered. The identition of the aircraft parts should have been fairly easy for the USAF to do as they had access to a large piece of the tail stabilizer from the military jet whose parts were found at a known location in Ontario, Canada. I believe the bulk of information concerning these reports does suggest that the parts were most likely from the F-89 that disappeared on the mission from Kinross Air Base in November, 1953, but this is not something that can be proved with the information which I know as being available. One reason I believe this is because the identity of the aircraft was not revealed in the newspaper and the Canadian government agencies report they have no record of the parts that were found in this incident. It other words, the government's behavior once again suggests another coverup. I believe the parts probably originated from the missing F-89 despite the fact that this was the only aircraft that was explicitely discounted as being a source for the wreckage while providing no reason for why this had been positively established. Why would they want to coverup the recovery of parts found from the missing F-89? It is clear from the news stories that only a portion of the aircraft was found. How did the parts get there? First it was theorized in the previous day's story that the aircraft exploded at a high altitude and scattered its parts over a wide area. If this were so, then the military would have no doubt wanted to perform a ground search to locate the rest of the aircraft. This was not done. In reports from the first day, "this week two prospectors stumbled over the aircraft parts in the bush around the Cozens Cove, Alona Bay area." The following day the news reported "The tail section was washed up from the lake, probably brought by currents to the point where the two prospectors found it near shore." It sounds to me like someone was trying to make up an excuse not to search for the remaining aircraft parts as they already knew something about the aircraft that they didn't want to tell us. This theory is supported by the fact that it appears that the identity of the source aircraft was not reported in the following weeks. With such a large piece of wreckage, it should have been very easy to determine the type of military jet and to have identified the originating aircraft. The photograph printed in the Sault Star on October 31st, 1968 shows a piece of the jet wreckage that looks about five feet long, 18 inches wide and about 4 inches thick. It is a fairly large piece that looks like a piece of the vertical stabilizer rather than a wing piece as identified in the photograph's caption. Yes, the Kinross incident still resides in a grey zone of mystery, and the recovery of these parts which I believe originated from the aircraft, only add to the mystery rather than solve it. All my research of the Kinross Incident seems to suggest that the USAF was determined to cover up what really happened that night, coming up with a whole series of rather weak explanations for the disappearance. They could have said that they simply didn't know the identity of the unidentified aircraft that Lt. Moncla and Lt. Wilson pursued that night over Lake Superior as the plane crashed before the pilot radioed the identity of the aircraft. Instead on at least one occasion they said that the plane crashed after the pilot had radioed the identity of the aircraft. In the accident report, they stated the intercept was made because the RCAF Dakota C-47 was flying 30 miles off course, but the pilot of this aircraft states this most certainly was false. The USAF also told crews at Kinross that the alert was called because the Dakota C-47 failed to file a flight plan. Then they told reporters at the Sault Star that the whole "UFO incident" had been pre-arranged with the RCAF even though the RCAF later stated in correspondence that there was no link between the C-47 and the alert mission. Meanwhile back in Washington, Air Force Public Information Officer Lt. Robert C. White was telling NICAP investigator Major Donald Keyhoe that "the unknown in that case was a Canadian DC-3." "It was over the locks by mistake." Also, I was told that airmen based at the radar station on the Keeweenaw Pennisula which tracked the incident, did not hear about the F-89's disappearance on the base but instead heard it as a rumour that was circulating in the nearby town of Calumet, Michigan. All evidence seems to suggest that the Air Force has engaged in a coverup of this incident since 1953. Jan Aldrich's comments about the response to investigators working on the Condon Committee seems to support this assertion. I believe that many of the statements about this incident which were issued by the US Air Force contain lies and fabrications. These were possibly made to conform to Air Force regulations stating the public was not to be informed about incidents involving Unidentified Flying Objects unless these incidents were hoaxes or readily identified phenomena such as meteors, stars and planets. I hope my comments clarify information supplied by others on this list about the mysterious military jet aircraft parts which were found in the bush east of Lake Superior and north of Sault Ste. Marie in late October, 1968. Persons who are interested in the Kinross event should refer to Donald Keyhoe's book "The Flying Saucer Conspiracy" as the best account of the roots of the Kinross mystery. Major parts of the USAF accident report are published online http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/kinrossdir.htm Note that the map shown on this website does not show the correct location for the site where the F-89 disappeared over Lake Superior. It seems that an earlier investigator misread the geographical coordinates for this site "48 00 N 86 49 W" as "45 00 N 86 49 W". The coordinates "4800N 8649W" appear in telexes and the RCAF Search and Rescue Report that are in the USAF Accident Report files from the incident. This location over Canadian waters of Lake Superior is also the location where 433rd FIS Base Commander Lt. Col. Harry Shoup is pointing to in a photograph that was published in the Madison, Wisconsin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 6 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:34:10 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 23:01:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Sparks >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:08:37 EST >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:55:36 EST >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:27:20 EST >>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 20:27:47 EST >>>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>>Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:49:44 -0400 >>>>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>>>>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>>>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>>>Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:28:40 +0100 >>>>>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >Stans original comments: >>>>>>How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >>>>>>sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >>>>>>cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking >>>>>>etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >>>>>>abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >>>>>>disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving or >>>>>>doing other non horizontal activities? <snip> >I will note that in case 039 in Bullard's "The UFO Abductions: >The Measure of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases," >that Egidio Silva reported that he had gone outside because his >dog was barking, a powerful light was shown down on him and >he felt paralyzed. Not the best example, for sure, but one that fits, >generally, the conditions of waking paralysis. This is paralysis by ray beam. There are many such cases in the UFO literature. Why pick this one out? Just because for some reason it made it into Bullard's catalogue? What about the many dozens of others ray beam paralysis cases, all non-abductions but merely CE II's? By the way where is the UFO in this Silva case? Where is the "abduction"? >>What we need to see is evidence of some other kind of sleep >>disorder or state that produces a kind of free flowing, >>conscious, fantasy creation that tells a complete story like a >>UFO abduction, with a start (the UFO abduction), a middle (being >>brought onboard the UFO, having an exam or whatever), and an end >>(being returned to earth). Dreams won't cut it. That's my point. >Actually, in Bullard's report, there are a number of cases in which >dreams are suggested as the original "memory" of the event. In >case 194c, "Pamela Armstrong," it is reported that "In a dream the >witness saw a bright egg-shaped and domed object land=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6.= Two >beings stepped out=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6. She was unable to move=C3=A2=E2=82= =AC=C2=A6. The beings took >her inside=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6." She was already horizontal and "dreaming" here. This is a dream, not a UFO case. Does every person's UFO dream count now as a "UFO abduction"? Where is her return to her bedroom? I guess then she is still on board the UFO to this day! I wonder how Bullard got her story if she is still kidnapped? Oh that's right, you Kevin (or Bullard) get to define any fragmentary dream as a full "UFO abduction" just because you say so, and I don't get any say in the matter, I am not permitted to criticize such a ludicrous (or sloppy) methodology. >Case 198c, page C-196, Mike Lewis, according to Bullard, "The >witness had a recurring dream about an experience when he was >five years old, and under hypnosis recalled an abduction." He was horizontal and having a recurring dream. Where is the UFO? He recalled an "abduction" under hypnosis, an "abduction" by whom or by what? Talk about fragmentary! >Bullard reports in case 205, page C-204, Mary Sewall, "In a dream >one night the witness found herself in an aircraft like 2 saucers rim >to rim=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6" She is horizontal and dreaming! All UFO dreams now get to be called "UFO abductions" apparently. This reminds me of UFO debunkers who define all "UFO sightings" as "Unknowns" then after setting up this easy strawman they readily knock it down by declaring (falsely) that 95% are IFO's. Contaminate your sample with bad data then declare how bad it is. <snip> >>Narcolepts only get the dream hallucinations in total loss of >>muscle control and they fall to the ground if they happen to be >>standing or sitting. There is no vertical ("non horizontal") >>state of this kind of narcolpetic dreaming unless they are >>propped up to remain vertical. <snip> >Roach was "captured," taken onto the craft and examined. She was >returned to the house, where she "awakened" to the trauma of her >kids screaming and the cat screaming. In the transcript it is implied >that she awakened unable to move, something that she did say between >the sessions. Of course, the paralysis only lasts briefly, and once the >victim is able to move even the smallest amount, the paralysis is >broken=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6 at which time she was able to call the police. So Pat Roach was dreaming and then "awakened." As I said above, all UFO dreams apparently now get to be redefined as "UFO abductions." >>And what are the statistics on UFO abductees being paralyzed, >>what percentage were asleep when kidnapped, etc.? Are these the >>only 2 cases out of several hundred or possibly 1,000+ UFO >>abductions where you can cite evidence of some possible Sleep >>Paralysis? How many cases of paralysis are associated with UFO's >>or entities employing a device or ray beam that causes the >>paralysis? >See below=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6 You evaded my point about how many cases of UFO "ray beam" paralysis there are, and sure enough as I had anticipated by posing that question, you did go right ahead (see above) and use a UFO ray beam paralysis case as some kind of evidence for a false UFO abduction-caused-by-sleep-paralysis argument. My question to you Kevin once again is: Are you going to fold in all UFO ray beam paralysis CE II cases into your case for Sleep Paralysis Causing UFO Abductions? If not why not? You did it once already, despite my trying to anticipate that, so why not make all such cases part of your evidence or proof? <snip> >>Again, is that it? Just 2 cases out of possibly 1,000+ UFO >>abductions? >No, the point was that Stan said he knew of no cases in which >sleep paralysis was a viable explanation. These two fit that >bill. No they didn't. They were cases of dreaming in a horizontal state (in bed). They were not cases of people going about their daily activities while vertical and suddenly entering a waking dream-like state, with muscle paralysis (how would they continue to stand then? even narcolepts fall down when this sleep attack with paralysis occurs). These are not cases where they dream or hallucinate a UFO abduction scenario with a complete narrative account of UFO kidnapping, being brought on board a UFO and taking a tour of the inside or getting examined by aliens and then being returned to earth still awake and vertical. They are asleep and still dreaming when the dream ends! >However, in Ed Bullard's, The UFO Abductions: The Measure >of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases, published by the >Fund for UFO Research, Bullard noted in case 193e, "Lori >Briggs," page C-181, "Dragged from sleep by a strange force Lori >found herself paralyzed and unable to open her eyes." She was horizontal, asleep in bed. No UFO at all until later alleged abductions "under hypnosis." Was she also asleep in the later "abductions"? Was she influenced by leading questions in her hypnotic regressions? >Under hypnosis, she reported a humanoid four feet tall. In later >abductions (193f) she describes a domed disk. I mention this so >there is no confusion here. It isn't just about her awakening >and believing she was paralyzed, but also about her memories, >recovered under hypnosis, about the creatures and the craft. >In case 193b, on page C-180, Emily Cronin and Jan Whitley, >relate they were driving when both women became tired, so they >pulled off the road to sleep. Both women consciously remembered Were they asleep or not?? Are we entitled to question here whether they remember this correctly? >seeing a light, heard a high-pitched whine and felt paralyzed by >it. Under hypnosis, Emily remembered a tall humanoid. The >witnesses concentrated on moving, and when successful, the >paralysis ended and the light and the being were both gone. I >might point out here that this sounds like classic sleep >paralysis. In a later abduction, Emily reported a luminous >"white bubble." So I take it that only one woman dreamed of a UFO abduction but the other did not. How big was the "light"? How far away was the "light"? Duration? Angular size? Azimuth and elevation angle? What color? How bright? This wouldn't pass the most elementary screening for a UFO case. Yet now suddenly it takes on the character of Exhibit A in the proof that UFO abductions could be unusual sleep phenomena. Once again you adulterate your sample with poor cases then attack them as poor or explainable in conventional terms. >Let me describe what has become the typical abduction case. "An >unsuspecting woman is in her room preparing to go to bed. She >gets into bed, reads a while, turns off the light, and drifts >off into a peaceful night's sleep. In the middle of the night >she turns over and lies on her back. She is awakened by a light >that seems to be glowing in her room. The light moves toward her >bed and takes the shape of a small 'man' with a bald head and >huge black eyes. She is terrified. She wants to run but she >cannot move. She wants to scream but she cannot speak. The "man' >moves toward her and looks deeply into her eyes. Suddenly she is >calmer and she 'knows' that the 'man' is not going to hurt her." >This could easily be a description of an episode of sleep >paralysis. Oh yes, the quote is from page 49 of Secret Life by >David Jacobs. That's really clever Kevin in a smartass unscientific way, but where are the statistics to back it up? You claim to be something of an expert in UFO abductions having published a book on it as co- author. You have blithely ignored Stan's original point which I will quote here again from above: >>>>>>How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >>>>>>sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >>>>>>cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking >>>>>>etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >>>>>>abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >>>>>>disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving or >>>>>>doing other non horizontal activities? Is it or is not true that there are "literally hundreds of cases" of UFO abductions "where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking etc." or "doing other non horizontal activities"?? What are the statistics here? You're the expert, so show us some expertise. >So the point here has always been to refute Stan's suggestion >that there are no abduction cases that can be explained by sleep >paralysis. I presented two, which were apparently not enough, >and have added to those. I had shown that dreams seem to be the >precipitating factor in a few cases, which means the witness had >some kind of dream that lead to further investigation usually >under hypnosis that suggested an abduction. And to suggest that >there is a phenomenon, cataplexy, that could lead to abduction >that is a "daylight, non horizontal" activity. You have not presented a single case of people in "daylight, non
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Peter Jennings: Life In The Universe From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:55:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 11:22:33 -0400 Subject: Peter Jennings: Life In The Universe Some much as has been written here about Seeing Is Believing that I feel compelled to make some comments. The first rumors about the Peter Jennings' series which might contain some UFO material started coming to me about 9 months ago. Some said that UFOs would be a small part of a large several hours series on "Life in the Universe" (LITU) I learned from Dick Hall that he had been interviewed for the program and shortly after I was contacted by several of the researchers from Springs Media, Inc. in New York City concerning the Program. It was still entitled "Life in the Universe" then, and telephone calls were answered with this phrase, letterheads and E-mails bore this title. My latest communication with them on 8th of March still had LITU letterhead. Of course, I had heard it all before, how they wanted input and, of course, ideas. Production people always say that, but generally most shows are already planned out in the producers' mind and usually they just want a good sound bite. I sent them the Sign Historical Group (SHG) proposal for historical research projects which involve about three dozen tasks organized into these broad groups. 1. HQ/USAF files and FOIA search. 2. Historical Archives search. 3. Writing proposals. Included in areas to be covered was an historical paper on the CIA involvement with the UFO problem. Gerald Haines' article was very limited and there were many other agencies' documents which show CIA involvement, and there existed a large collection of audio interviews with CIA and Air Force intelligence officials on CIA involvement. The SHG proposal had nearly 50 points ignored or not adequately covered in Haines' article. These were only for examples and the actual list would be much greater. I told the Springs Media researchers that while the CIA did produce less than 1000 pages on UFO matters (some of which had real significance or led to the discovery of other significant documents), I could readily demonstrate that the CIA received hundreds of UFO reports in multiple copies which alleged searches at the CIA could not find. In light of the 9/11 hearings it might have been of interest to ABC News that the CENTRAL Intelligence Agency could not find or retrieve files and reports sent to them, centrally. A probable scandal to say the least with ramification in other areas in the current world situation. For some background on the CIA lawsuit see: http://project1947.com/ciaufo/ciagsw.html Other important topics I emphasized to them were cases involving national security and nuclear weapons. We were hopefully ABC news with a large investigative apparatus at its disposal could helps us hunt down dozens of leads we had in this area. Of course, there were the over flights in 1975. But we had scores of leads going back to the early 1960 at locations not generally known. Again, has some intrusion taken place at nuclear installations or near nuclear operations? Here is a national security interest here which goes beyond what is normally reported about UFOs. One can laugh UFOs off as a result drunks or UFO nuts, but when it comes to nuclear sites and national security this is something that needs major attention. So the media could be interested in it as it might indicate a major scandal at nuclear facilities. I described in detail the Minot AFB 1968 case involving ground personnel in the Minuteman missile fields and a B-52 aircraft which was approaching the base for a landing. The Sign Oral History Project (SOHP) had interviewed all living B-52 crew members, a number of ground personnel and the SAC intelligence officer who did the radar analysis. Tom Tulien, Chairman of the Sign Historical Group, is primary investigator on this case, and I gave Springs his contact information. Also, I gave them contact information for other people who were working on this nuclear and national security aspect of the UFO problem. Along this line I also recommend that ABC look into the Shag Harbour case, the reason being again, while it was indeed an interesting UFO case, it might be a Cold War incident with again the possibility of a major scandal attached to it. Shag Harbour didn't seem to interest them. We talked a lot about the Freedom of Information Act and locations of documents in the various archives. They would compose a target list. At that time, I had no idea when the program would air. Again there are numerous possibilities for FOIA requests. I have requests in for over 200 documents and offered to sign my FOIA requests over to them. I was called just prior to the meeting on FOIA for a short list of document candidates, but when I was told of the short time frame before airing, I could only recommend a few which could probably easily be found. To me it then was obvious that ABC had not allowed themselves enough time or resources to do a thorough job. Something like trying to get nine women pregnant in hopes of having a baby in a month. They didn't want to do a major research project, but rather they wanted to work on cases which had already been well investigated and with witnesses who had been thoroughly vetted. They had enough time to verify and confirm others' investigation and produce animations and re-shoot interviews, but not enough time to perform major investigative tasks on their own. One thing they constantly emphasized was the need to protect Peter Jennings' credibility. "We have to check everything." Focus changed several times during the preparation. I was asked extensive questions about MJ-12. Finally, I told them that I was not the one to answer questions and gave him other contacts. I told him my thoughts were MJ-12 had nothing to do with UFOs, but if they wanted copies of the material I had on the subject, about three file draws full, I would gladly take it to a copy store if they would pay the bill. My impression, and only my impression, as I was never told such, was that they wanted an aspect of ufology on which they could do a major expose. Finally, they wanted to know about UFO and official history. One thing they zeroed in on was the 1948 Estimate of the Situation done at Wright Field. How did we know it existed beside Ruppelt's account? Who else had seen it. The answer is Hynek, Fournet and others had claimed to have read it. The Air Force admitted to Julian Hennessey that the Ruppelt's account of the document was probably correct, but that it was not an official Air Force conclusion. There are proxy documents which quoted the EOTS conclusion available and we provided them with reference to find such documents at the Archives. Brad Sparks provided them with a copy of one of the proxy documents. At this point the rumors were that the program would feature the Minot AFB, Malmstrom AFB, Bentwaters AB, and a modern police cases. Later, I heard that they had dropped the interview with Richard Hall, the Malmstrom AFB case, and an interview with Dr. John Mack and that Roswell and Phoenix Lights were included in the final program. My assessment of the program is probably different than others, but I see it as mostly positive. It is definitely not the death of ufology. It was a news program put together by different segment producers who had very different view points. There was an attempt to show a broad picture of ufology, skeptic, believers, and others. SETI was scheduled to be in the LITU program, but here was a major change, the UFO tail was wagging the LITU dog. UFOs took over and SETI was part of a UFO program instead of the other way around. I am quite sure the SETI people were very unhappy and frustrated with this arrangement. The segment on Art Bell was too long by half. However, since Bell's voice is so well known, ABC probably figured people wanted to see him. He actually sounded reasonable, which to me is completely out of character. The history of official interest seemed a reasonable summary of events. Hynek acknowledged as an expert on the subject due to long experience as Air Force advisor had adequate time in the file footage to explain his position together with three officers of the organization he created. They appeared in a presentation which was completely serious. They got to talk extensively not just little sound bites to support the producers version of events. Peter Davenport shown as a man with a mission. ABC presented him in a serious positive light. Since the program, his caller volume is way up. The Phoenix Lights and the Police cases, musts. If one talks of UFOs, modern cases must be shown. The presentation left of much to be desired, somewhat disjointed and in the Phoenix Lights case the continuity was poor. Skeptic had there say. Jill Tarter, head of the SETI Institute, came off like a drama queen. An astronomer who could not identify the moon. The complete opposite of the Hynek's Escalation of Hypothesis, she and the pilot who, as other pointed out, should have known the weather conditions (and lighting condition, i. e. the moon.) jumped to a wild first conclusion. How embarrassing! James McGehe talked of the mistakes people make looking at objects in the sky and especially at night. Neal Tyson of the Hayden Planetarium talked about the weakness of eyewitness testimony, ignoring how such testimony can be very useful when skilled professionals question people, as is done in meteor tracing. Both skeptics seemed to imply eyewitnesses testimony, poor memory, and objects seen under poor condition was the best evidence that UFO reports could supply. Even the cut down version of the Minot case debunked the debunkers. The B-52 encounter of the UFO was clearly recorded on the radars of the aircraft. Clear radar pictures were made and analyzed by Strategic Air Command intelligence. (Not in the ABC News presentation, but also important, the conversations between the aircraft and air control personnel were recorded and transcripts exist, so we are not relying on fallible human memory.) The pilots flew over the object and saw the UFO on the ground not in the air. They had references points to make a judgment of the size at a known distant from the aircraft. (Again, not in the ABC presentation, the radios cut out in close proximity to the UFO. The purpose of these radios was for relaying nuclear orders, the radios were not second rate equipment. The effects were on two not just one radio and the procedures used to defeat jamming had no effect on the problem.) I didn't like the truncated version of Minot, but it was certain a good segment. A full report on this incident which has involved years of research, interviews with all living B-52 crew members, the SAC intelligence officer who analyzed the radar photographs and ground personnel: http://project1947.com/shg/minot/index.html At the Bordentown New Jersey, one topic I will cover is the Minot case: http://www.drufo.org/conference.new.htm Of the segment with the pilots, that too suffered from too little time. The speakers were not identified, nor were the dates and locations of their incidents which detracted greatly from the segment. The transition to the Roswell segment was sloppy and poorly done. It seemed to me that someone must have insisted that this must be in the presentation as if they wanted an expose of something and this one with the excesses of ufology offered the best one. (They had asked me about Roswell in relations to MJ- 12, but I saw nothing I had discussed with them except perhaps how some witnesses like Kaufman had blown up.) Certainly the over Roswell case received did not receive a far hearing here. The abduction segment also seemed a problem for them. No doubt they deleted Dr. Mack's interview because of his recent death. (Several people who were not interested in UFOs but who watched the program at my request said that it would have been tacky to include him as he could not comment after the program had aired.) I think a battle among the facility at Harvard would have been quite interesting. Certainly sleep paralysis while interesting seems unlike as any type of final answer. Bud Hopkins said his interview contained a statement that abductions did not all occur at night or from bed. (Now we see how the views of the segment producer influence the product. He can edit out any area that don't agree with his notion about the way things are. I have commented about this several times here and elsewhere. Certainly Dr. Susan Powers would have been a far better spokesperson for the negative, and segment did not got into the diverse experiences claimed by the abductees. What happened in 82 minutes, was a mirror was held up to ufology showing not only the good, serious, mysterious, but bad and the ugly, too. Sometimes the mirror was more like a fun house mirror from a carnival which distorts the image, making it look too elongated and in some places look too squat. It was a perfect mirror image, but one could see something of the real image in the reflection. "Seeing is Believing" usurped LITU. There was not sufficient time or resources to prepare for even one subject let alone both. This program was not written for ufologists. When I wrote these words, Jerry Clark immediate shot back that no one said it was. Well, yes, they did here and elsewhere and with much wailing, moaning and groaning coming from the UFO community. However, a fair assessment would be that it exposed a some of TV viewers to some serious aspects of ufology. It was a feature program, not a hard boiled documentary continually hitting on cold hard facts. Rather it was a light look at the subject with the scope far too big for the time alotted. The Minot case was shown both on ABC nightly news and in "Seeing is Believing." One of the best cases in ufology shown to millions of viewers. Various aspects of the show and some that were not covered are on the ABC News.com site. Certainly I think that is what many here want: some serious consideration by the media. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Primetime/ The show ended with a scientist, Michio Kaku, who also suggested some serious consideration of the subject was warranted. So maybe ufology didn't get a whole loaf, or even half a loaf, but this was damn sure better than most of the crumbs from UFO programs produced for mass audiences in the last five years. Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 UK's Bob Trotta Excited By Crop Circle Activity From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 19:54:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 19:54:05 -0400 Subject: UK's Bob Trotta Excited By Crop Circle Activity Source: eMedia News Wire http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/4/emw225206.htm April 6, 2005 UFO Expert Bob Trotta Excited by Recent Crop Circle Activity in North Devon Bob Trotta and his team of experts have been called to investigate the recent spate of crop circles that have been manifesting themselves all over the North Devon countryside. (PRWEB) April 6, 2005 -- Once thought the preserve of cranks and eccentrics this burgeoning phenomenon has caught the attention of mainstream academia over the last few years including organisations such as Bob Trotta=92s Institute of Crop Circle Investigation (ICCI). The recent activity in Devon saw local authorities reaching for the phone to request the advice of this leading research establishment. The latest circles have appeared over the last week or so in at least fourteen different locations in North Devon, mainly in the large number of =93super fields=94 that grow the cereal crops popular in this region. Speaking from his Woolacombe homestead local farmer David Wilkins had this to say: =93I=92ve always thought this sort of thing was a hoax but the ones that have appeared on my land have been so complicated that I can=92t see how they could have been done overnight. I=92m glad that Bob Trotta and his team are here to try and get to the bottom of things=94. Mr Trotta himself was not quite as optimistic about his team=92s ability to solve the mystery: =93crop circles have been around for ever. We have reports of them in academic texts from the 1700=92s and they have appeared in at least twenty nine countries around the world. We are not sure what makes them although many of us believe it to be a form of light energy. However, one thing is for sure, since the 1990=92s the circles have developed in complexity to the point that where once we were seeing simple circles, we are now seeing crop glyphs mimicking computer fractals and elements expressing fourth dimensional processes in quantum physics. In layman terms that means we are seeing some really complicated patterns that are almost certainly beyond the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Aztec 8th Annual UFO Symposium From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 19:58:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 19:58:48 -0400 Subject: Aztec 8th Annual UFO Symposium Source: The Daily Times - Farmington, New Mexico http://tinyurl.com/4b3yc Apr 3, 2005 ETs, UFOs and conspiracies highlight Saturday talk at 8th annual UFO Symposium By Debra Mayeux/The Daily Times AZTEC =97 Extraterrestrial biological entities, foreign discs and enemy weapons systems are descriptions found in many declassified government reports from the late 1940s and early 1950s. When the phrases are pieced together with the common knowledge of alleged UFO crashes in New Mexico and the more recent cases of alien abductions, there is a story about government cover-ups and extraterrestrial life possibly living among humans and controlling them. This was the message from Linda Moulton Howe, who spoke Saturday at the 8th annual Aztec UFO Symposium at the Aztec Boys and Girls Club. Howe, an investigative reporter and expert on extraterrestrial phenomenon, used a number of alleged UFO crashes in New Mexico to tell get her point across. She also told her theories of what happened in Roswell in 1947 and in Aztec in 1948. It was Howe=92s theory that a =93foreign disc=94 carrying =93humanoids=94 was shot down in July 1947 near Roswell. It was brought down with =9320 millimeter canon fire,=94 after the U.S. Army Air Force received orders to fire upon all hostile =93foreign weapons systems=94 or UFOs. Aztec was a little different. Howe said an unidentified military agent told her: =93We did not shoot that one down.=94 Instead the spaceship =97 a pewter, circular-shaped craft =97 flew into the path of radar beam. It was brought down in Hart Canyon and discovered by some oil field workers responding to a well fire in the area. =93There were two badly charred bodies, four feet in height=94 on the craft. The bodies were later described by the military as =93dead non-human beings,=94 Howe said. These two crashes and possibly two more in New Mexico became a part of the big government cover-up that began in the era of Harry Truman, who ordered those in the know to lie, she said. =93The suppression began as a policy of denial,=94 Howe said, adding that was followed by a =93shoot down=94 policy implemented by the military. The =93shoot down=94 policy lasted through the mid-1950s, when according to Howe=92s military informant, ended because =93We lost so many of our own planes and pilots.=94 The aliens were hostile, and people could not know because there would be a =93War of the Worlds type of hysteria,=94 Howe said. More than 50 people listened to Howe. Those, who purchased weekend passes to the annual event will hear more today with speakers talking about Roswell, showing off UFO photographs and sharing more government conspiracies. Doreen Chavez of Nageezi said she enjoys UFO lectures and museums. She attended the Roswell UFO event last year and decided to give the Aztec event a try. =93It=92s interesting. UFO crashes have happened all over the world,=94 Chavez said. =93I wanted to see what was going on here.=94 Caroline Robblee brought her grandchildren to the symposium, because the children =97 aged 14 months to 12 years old =97 love ETs. =93They saw the signs and got excited,=94 said Robblee of Aztec. She had heard of the alleged Aztec crash and wanted to learn more about it, she said holding the 14-month-old, who was wearing alien antennas. =93If we can be here, why can=92t they,=94 Robblee said. =93I=92m totally open to life on other planets.=94 The symposium opens 9:30 a.m. today with David Rudiak speaking on Roswell. Also on the agenda are Rob Swiatek and John Greenewald, Jr. Tickets for all day Sunday are $25. A morning pass can be purchased for $18 and an afternoon pass is $9.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Plenty Of Earths Await Discovery From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:51:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:02:51 -0400 Subject: Plenty Of Earths Await Discovery Source: BBC News http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4411865.stm 5 April, 2005 Plenty Of Earths Await Discovery By Jonathan Amos BBC News science reporter, in Birmingham British researchers are more confident than ever that there are "Earths" out there waiting to be discovered. The scientists say perhaps a half of all the known planetary systems today could be harbouring habitable worlds. It must be said most of these systems are strange places where supergiant planets orbit close in to their stars. But Barrie Jones and colleagues say their modelling work suggests that even with this oddness, there should be room for small rocky planets. The Open University team presented its ideas here at the UK National Astronomy Meeting on Tuesday. They extend recent and previously published theoretical work, "putting it on a firmer modelling basis," Professor Jones told the BBC News website. The research calculates the likely number of Earths out there, based on what we know about how planets form and the conditions needed for life - in particular, the requirement to sit in the part of a solar system that is neither too hot for liquid water, nor too cold. 'Disaster' area "The conclusions haven't changed, I'm pleased to say. Roughly half the systems out there could have Earths in their habitable zones today and have been there long enough for life to develop," Jones added. The limitations of current telescope technology make it extremely difficult to view so-called extrasolar planets directly. Astronomers have therefore made most of their detections indirectly - by finding stars that appear to "wobble" under the gravitational tug of what must be nearby, very large planets. The technique has the bias of only showing up apparently bizarre systems - where planets that are sometimes many times the mass of our own Jupiter circle their stars in orbits that are smaller than Mercury's. And this presents a problem because current thinking holds that these huge Jupiters probably formed some way out from their stars before migrating inwards. And if they did that, the chances are they would have destroyed all in their path, including any fledging Earths. "We've now got some simple rules for establishing how far these disaster zones extend," explained Professor Jones. Moving zones Encouragingly, his team finds there is plenty room and time for Earths to evolve. "At the stage these great giants sweep through, the Earths are not formed - they are still smallish planetary embryos. They get scattered but the simulations show enough material remains that Earths can form after the migration of the great giants has taken place." The team found about half of the known exoplanetary systems offer a safe haven for a period extending from the present into the past that is at least long enough for life to have developed on any such planets. The situation is complicated slightly by the fact that the habitable zone migrates outwards as the star ages, and in some cases this changes the potential for life to evolve. Thus, in some cases a safe haven might have been available only in the past, while in other cases it might exist only in the future. These scenarios of past extinction and future birth increase to about two-thirds the proportion of the known exoplanetary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 11:29:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:05:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Dickenson >From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:05:54 +1000 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >[Four paragraphs of "tech-speculation"] >Still, questions remain. >[Five paragraphs of "tech-spec"] Excellent - if a hard query can change a reflex response from "Another one bites the dust" (your words) to "Let the Sunshine In" then posing that query is worth while. When we compare the record of frank analysis & up-front presentation (of Mars anomalies) of:- Joseph P Skipper http://tinyurl.com/4j9s3 A.C. Clarke http://www.perceptions.couk.com/magic3.html Tom Van Flandern http://tinyurl.com/3udmr with the recent history of NASA/JPL (from say, Viking onwards), who comes off worst? Cheers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: The Kinross Incident - Johnson From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:51:42 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:08:42 -0400 Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident - Johnson >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:03:50 -0700 >Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:18:21 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:03:14 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:26:31 EST >>>>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith - Sparks ><snip> >>>>>Force jet and crew were possibly captured by a confounded >>>>>research into flying saucers, was the same day that a US Air >>>>>"flying saucer" and sent into oblivion. >>>>Pieces of the jet were found several months later. >>>Pieces of the jet found later? That slipped past me somehow, >>>and its important. >>>Can you verify this? Links or whatever? >>Jerry Clark sent me a clipping from years later. It said that >>the wreckage recovered could be from one of three aircraft, >>including the Kinross interceptor. >>No more information is available. >>Brad agrees that we both saw the same news article which I have >>temporarily misplaced. Jerry mentioned the new report in his >>encyclopedia. >>The Condon Committee requested information on this, this >>Walesville, and Convair 1956 cases. They only got one paragraph >>summaries back from the accident board. They noted that, >>supposedly, they had access to everything in the Air Force >>records to do with UFOs, but made no attempt to contact the >>contracting officer with their complaint. The summary made no >>mention of wreckage recovered after the Kinross loss. >>One additional word on Kinross. Keyhoe used this case in the >>beginning of The Flying Saucer Conspiracy. Much of his text read >>as if it was abstracted from the unit histories of the radar and >>interceptor organizations. >Thanks Jan: >I guess the case remains grey-basket then, suggestive yes, but >nothing really conclusive. Dear Larry, You should check with Dale Goudie and Jim Klotch of CUFON in Seattle. They once showed me the extensive documents they obtained on the Kinross search and rescue. I don't believe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:56:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:10:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:36:30 +0100 >Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms >There is a reference to hallucinations occuring in cataplexy >attacks lasting more than a few minutes, here: >http://sleepdisorderchannel.com/narcolepsy/symptom.shtml I've checked this out and the wording appears somewhat obscure: "During a cataplectic attack, the person is completely awake and later will have total recall of the entire event. If episodes last longer than a few minutes, the patient may begin to hallucinate (distinguishable in occurrence from those described below)." The "hallucinations described below" are evidently hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations, which are described in the subsequent paragraph. But I've so far been unable to track down the meaning of the above comment. Some texts do state that extended episodes of cataplexy sometimes end with the individual's falling asleep, which may of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Follow-Up On Coronel Suarez Cattle Mutes From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:02:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:12:07 -0400 Subject: Follow-Up On Coronel Suarez Cattle Mutes INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 6, 2005 Source: CIUFOS-LaPampa Date: April 6, 2005 A Follow-Up On The Coronel Suarez Cattle Mutes Only a few days ago INEXPLICATA reported on the resurgence of cattle mutilation activity in the Argentinean Pampa. Researcher Raul Oscar Chaves of the CIUFOS-LaPampa investigative organization has provided an update on the situation at our request. His information suggests that mutilation activity is on the upswing again, but it it is too early to tell if a replay of the 2002 events is in the wings (Argentina's 2002 cattle mutilation epidemic commenced during the month of May that year). With regard to the Suarez mutilations, writes Chaves in his reply to our inquiry, cattle ranchers are refraining from reporting cases to the authorities in spite of the losses suffered. Readers will remember that the 2002 wave ended somewhat "abruptly" in August of that year not because the mutilation events drew to a close, but because the authorities refused to accept any further complaints involving mutilations. Seven deer have turned up mutilated in a hunting preserve. "A while ago we learned that ten mutilated cows had been discovered. The most striking aspect of this is that circle marks appeared in the pastures, and all of the cows appeared in the perimeter of one of the circles, heads pointing toward its middle. We always work on-site, securing all information necessary to appraise each case," adds Chaves. The alignment of mutilated animals was seen during the 2002 mutilations and in the 1995-96 Chupacabras depredations in Puerto Rico. The latest case appears to involve a mutilated cat whose carcass was found at a country estate. The witness allegedly saw strange lights and nocturnal sounds resembling "the sound of the wind", after which she found the mutilated pet.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Enigmatic Fireball Over Uruguay Causes Concern From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:01:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:15:19 -0400 Subject: Enigmatic Fireball Over Uruguay Causes Concern INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 6, 2005 SOURCE: Infobae.com DATE: 04.06.05 URUGUAY: ENIGMATIC FIREBALL CAUSES CONCERN Windows shuddered at Colonia de Sacramento and a powerful beam of light was seen in the heavens. The hypotheses were put forth by a military man on Radio 10. Uruguayans are still wondering what it was. An hitherto unexplained event occurred in recent days. Residents of Puerto Sauce and Colonia claim having seen "a very intense beam of light that appeared suddenly in the heavens." They also claim that there was a deafening sound and that windows rattled in the communities' homes. In a dialogue with Radio 10, Col. Jose Luis Vignoli, press officer for the Uruguayan Air Force, said that "a missile was involved." The military man said that "the control tower at Carrasco Airport received signals from two airliners." One of the pilots, a Lufthansa captain, reported seeing a luminous object. The airliner had taken off from Buenos Aires' Ezeiza Airport and was in the vicinity of Carrasco. The pilot contacted the tower again, describing the object as "very luminous" as if resembling "a fireball". Later on, another aircraft - a courier flight by a Uruguayan air force pilot - also reported a luminous object crossing the heavens. This pilot reported seeing an intense reflection against the waters of the River Plate and that it could be a rocket or missile. The man further described tongues of flame in an ascending direction. The second pilot also said that the flames could be from the afterburners of another aircraft. Afterburners enable pilots to obtain maximum acceleration in a matter of seconds. It is based on these descriptions that the UAF believes that the unknown object could be a "missile", although the mystery deepens, since Uruguay lacks missile bases or launching facilities. Vignoli explained on Radio 10: "We can neither confirm nor affirm anything at this time," rejecting the possibility that it could be related to matters "extraterrestrial" Source: Infobae - http://www.infobae.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Argentine Strange Light is Phantom Aircraft? From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:49:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:17:07 -0400 Subject: Argentine Strange Light is Phantom Aircraft? INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 7, 2005 SOURCE: Planeta UFO (Argentina) DATE: 04.06.05 ARGENTINA: STRANGE LIGHT IS PHANTOM AIRCRAFT? by Christi=E1n H. Quintero Buenos Aires Channel 13 interviewed Alvaro Gestillo of the Uruguayan Air Force at noon, and upon making reference to the object seen over the River Plate, he spoke of "a missile or advanced combat aircraft". Perhaps there is no direct relationship here, but it reminded me of the story picked up by several newspapers of [the province] of Entre Rios regarding a "phantom airplane" that experienced technical problems near the city of Concordia. For those who live outside Argentina, the province of Entre Rios is on the border with Uruguay, and Concordia is located on the Uruguay River, which serves as the border between our two countries. But returning to the phantom aircraft: the alert was issued by the Victoria volunteer firefighters, who picked up a distress call on their VHF equipment from an aircraft identifying itself with three numbers and claimed to be flying near Concordia. They immediately advised the control tower at the Comodoro Pierresteguy Airport and personnel from the Argentinean Air Force (FAA) requested information from all airports from which an aircraft headed to Concordia could have departed, but no flight with that destination was confirmed. The strangest thing is that upon verifying the numbers given by the alleged pilot, they learned that the call numbers belonged to an experimental aircraft. Despite the search, nothing was ever found, but residents of the Uruguayan town fo Salto claimed seeing "an airplane in distress" flying at low altitude. In short, the Argentinean-Uruguayan frontier region has received reports of "missiles", experimental airplanes and unknown lights that light up the night sky as though it were daytime. Whether
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Phantom Aircraft Crashes In Argentina? From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:04:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:18:48 -0400 Subject: Phantom Aircraft Crashes In Argentina? INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 7, 2005 SOURCE: El Sol Matutino (Argentina) DATE: April 6, 2005 ARGENTINA: PHANTOM AIRCRAFT CRASHES? A police detachment from the Concordia Department of the Entre Rios Police searched for the wreckage of an alleged airplane in the vicinity of Termas Vertientes de la Concordia using a high- power searchlight. The aircraft would have crashed in that vicinity around 23:50 hours last night. Argentinean Air Force Personnel Requested information from all airports as to where an aircraft headed for Concordia could have departed, and reported it to the 3rd Aerial Brigade headquartered in Paran=E1. No aircraft had departed in this direction, although its call numbers suggest that it could be an experimental plane. A mobile unit of EL SOL Tele-5 was sent out immediately to the thermal baths in the location, ascertaining that neither employees of the baths, nor the tourists visiting them, had witnessed the collision of the alleged airplane. Police officers, after combing the thermal baths and their vicinity, decided to return to their stations after alerting the National Police and the Naval Prefecture to be alert to a possible appeararance of the "phantom aircraft" in their respective spheres of influence. To make matters worse, residents of Salto claimed having seen a low-flying plane that, according to the Uruguayans, showed signs of being "in trouble". Could it all be a prank? As of this morning, it remains unknown if the distress call was a prank or if an aircraft in distress flew over the skies of Concordia.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 More UFO Activity Reported By Mexico From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:25:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:20:25 -0400 Subject: More UFO Activity Reported By Mexico INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 7, 2005 SOURCE: Planeta UFO DATE: April 6, 2005 MORE UFO ACTIVITY OVER MEXICO This report was received earlier today from our correspondent in Mexico CIty, Prof. Ana Luisa Cid: Images from April 5, 2005: Juan Antonio Lopez, a young man from the city of Culiac=E1n, Sinaloa, managed to obtain excellent footage of unexpected UFOs over his city. Upon viewing the film, strange shining structures can be seen moving around at high speed. Vidcaps are attached. El joven Juan Antonio L=F3pez Quiroa logra excelente video de ovnis fortuitos en la ciudad de Culiacan Sinaloa. I myself managed to photograph two unknown objects flying in the Tlanepantla region of Mexico State on April 5, 2005 over Mario Col=EDn Ave. The time was approximately 13:00 hours. Our readers will recall that Prof. Cid has obtained video of strange objects flying over this vicinity in previous occasions.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 List's Excellance From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:44:49 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:22:57 -0400 Subject: List's Excellance I must say that this List is really impressive. I personally think the UFO investigators here are the most thorough and dedicated lot around. Everything, and I mean everything, is dissected to the last micro-millimeter. I don't think any other field of investigation is so well studied with so little reward. This has to indicate that the phenomena has a lot of credibility. When you don't live in the United States you perceive Americans
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Roger Leir's New Book On Varginha From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:46:03 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:26:41 -0400 Subject: Roger Leir's New Book On Varginha To the List I have the pleasure to inform you that the new book by Dr Roger Leir, on the alleged crash of a UFO in Varginha, Brazil in 1996, is now published in the United States. UFO Crash In Brazil will eventually be available in any book store but can be special ordered now through any major book store. The Publisher is Booktree Publishing in San Diego,Ca. The price is $14.95. Signed copies can be obtained at Dr Leir's web site: Alienscalpel.com or they may call him directly at: 805-495-2613
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Filer's Files #15 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 08:49:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:34:41 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #15 - 2005 Filer=92s Files #15 =96 2005, Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International April 6, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com Webmaster: C E Warren www.cewarren.com Numerous New UFO Images The purpose of these files is to report weekly the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. Many people claim it is impossible for UFOs to visit Earth, I ask you only to keep an open mind and watch the evidence we accumulate each week. These Files make the assumption that extraterrestrial intelligent life not only exists, but my hypothesis is that of the over one hundred UFOs reported each week many represent a factual UFO sighting Mars =96 Evidence of vegetation, and water from Mars Express Satellite. On April 8th in North America crescent-shaped sunbeams will dapple the ground during a partial solar eclipse. UFOs were seen over Arizona, California, Connecticut, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon and Texas. Sightings were also reported in Canada, Mexico, the UK and Yugoslavia in WW II. European Space Agency Photo by Mars Express Mars =96 Evidence of Water and Vegetation Norman Bryden writes, "I have discovered and processed the following images that show water and vegetation. In the following sections of images there is evidence of live surface vegetation on Mars.=94 I have brightened up a few of the images to help see the colors and detail. I have studied thousands of Mars images and it is my opinion that there is vegetation, and probable higher forms of life on Mars. Generally vegetation needs some water and now what appears to be lakes and streams are being found. Look at the European Space Agency images yourself. http://www.esa.int/export/externals/images/ob_22_reull_p.jpg http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/marsexpress/142-121104-0451- 6-3d-01-Reull_H.jpg http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12/full_gif_non_map/E07/E07 01717.gif Thanks to Norman Bryden Mars =96 Hale Crater Ranch - Correction Kurt Arenhold writes, "The farmland-pattern is a result of jpg- compression of the texture image. compare: (files from ESA) http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/marsexpress/136-021104-0533-6-= 3d1-01-HaleCrater_H.jpg (color, with jpg-artifacts) http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/marsexpress/131-021104-0533-6-nd-= 01-HaleCrater_H.jpg (monochrome, no artifacts) I contacted Bruce Maccabee based on Kurt=92s comments: Bruce Maccabee writes, "The Hale crater structures 'desert farming' have been explained as an odd artifact of the picture processing which involved first digitization of the image (breaking it into discrete brightness levels). stereo processing to give relative heights of the various portions of the image and, finally, rotation of the image to give a perspective view. The initial image, a straight down view of the crater, does not show these same structures. The original and the rotated view and some other versions are available for viewing at http://berlinadmin.dlr.de/Missions/express/first/24.11.2004_eng.shtml The first picture at that web side is the basic color image. The area of the "structures" is the upper right. The fourth image down is the stereo-digital-processed perspective image where the structures do appear in the lower left (lower left because the image was rotated in creating the perspective view). Editor=92s Note: The photos are taken from the Mars Express satellite and when blown up to show detail some distortions may occur. It is difficult to ascertain when pixilation occurs. Arizona =96 Triangle of Lights QUEEN CREEK -- My husband and I live in a farm community with lots of land out there, and away from the city lights of Phoenix. My husband saw a possible UFO in the last week of March, while in the backyard having a cigarette at 1 AM. He looked into the northern sky to see a strange light in the shape of a 'triangle'. He watched it for a few seconds waiting to see if it would move but it did not. The light was quite bright. He did see the lights of a plane pass near by. Then the triangle shaped lights slowly faded out until it was gone? I told him it was probably a UFO, and curious to see if anyone else in Arizona saw this same sighting? E-mail report. PHOENIX -- Richard writes, "I am still seeing and taping these orbs just about every clear day and night." On March 30, 2005 at 8:26 PM, we saw an orb that was not a plane or meteorite. No flashing lights and no contrail. It is not a satellite because it's way too big and bright. SO it must be an orb. I saw this one coming in from the southwest heading east and it was moving very fast around 3Kft.-5Kft. After taping the object for a minute it just turned off like it was on a dimmer switch. I think that all of these orbs are generally the same size between 3 to 5 feet and have a tremendous amount of energy. The altitude of these objects probably determines the size of these orbs. It seems like every ten times I go out and tape these orbs, I will catch one this low in the sky. That's why this one looks so big and bright. Also, when I tried to zoom in on the orb it looked like a disc on its side. I think this happens with bright objects out of focus so I do not know if it is a solid object or just an orb. Well it's more than just an orb to me. You can view Richard's website at: http://www.cnufos.com http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews =3Darticle =3D2580 California =96 Video of Plane and UFO SONORA =96 Johnny the witness reports, "At 12:30 PM, Friday, March 25th, I witnessed what I thought was a cigar shaped object traveling to the west that appeared to be wingless and concave flattened.=94 It was a long metallic object traveling at a speed so slow that a conventional aircraft would've fallen out of the sky. It was twice the size of a passenger jet and probably 3 miles away at 4500 feet. I observed it for 50 seconds, slowly move off until I lost it due to my roof and trees. About an hour later, with my video equipment, I started following jets as I find them to be a great 'telephoto target'. I had been following a number of jets for about an hour when I started filming one heading south when suddenly I noticed a large brightly glowing object underneath the jet as it passed over. Obviously, I stopped following the jet and followed the object for almost a full three minutes as it headed west against the wind before it was lost behind a tree at 2:45 PM.Photos taken: Clip1 http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970013/CLIP_1A.GIF Clip 2 http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970013/CLIP_4A.GIF Clip 3 http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970013/CLIP_4AB.GIF Clip 4 http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/970013/CLIP_5A.GIF Video Clips: http://s104589627.onlinehome.us/My%20Videos/March%2005/20050325_JA_Jet%20Pas= ses%20Object-WEB.mpg SONORA -- Jeff Challender writes, I investigated your story in Filer's Files #12, that asked "What is it?" The object taped on 9 March 2005, was the International Space Station (ISS)! This was a 63 degree pass over North Highlands. I taped this pass myself, at exactly the same time, as part of my ongoing work for Project P.R.O.V.E. March 7, 8 and 9 ISS series traveled from the southwest to northeast. ISSy is VERY bright in the sky, even shortly after sunset. In fact, it's the brightest object in the evening sky except for the Moon. Even Venus can't compete. This website shows predictions of ISSy passes. There is a whole range of useful sky info on this website. Thanks to Jeff Challender challenderjeff.nul and http://www.heavens- above.com/main.asp? Connecticut =96 Strange Video MANCHESTER - I am just an amateur photographer with my focus on local wildlife. On Saturday, March 26, 2005, late afternoon, after coming home from a local pond/park my attention was grabbed by the prism in the air traffic pollution. I have seen these before but never had a chance to get a photo. I decided that on this day I'd try to observe if the trail from the plane would make the prism go away or get stronger as you can see it goes directly to the prism. I own a digital camera, Fuji s5000. I came home, emptied the card in the computer. I double check all my photos before deleting as I more often than not find "extras." Last example being I had my eye on a male mallard sitting on a small patch of grass near water. Only when I got home did I see he was keeping company with a turtle, not a rock. I never saw the weird light/lights with my eyes. Only after looking at them on here, the PC, did my husband catch this. It may be a sun reflection camera. Though, those usually leave colored circles on my photos. I would love to get some kind of feedback on this as curiosity is killing me. Any feedback would be most greatly appreciated! Thanks to Elliott & Kim Minnesota =96 Flying Triangle PLYMOUTH -- Lead Operations Specialist (name deleted) was driving home from work on Highway 494 northbound at 9 PM, on March 2, 2005. He states, "I saw this huge, white, bright light that was more like three really bright, white lights that just ran together in the sky. It was flying very low only 500 feet high or so and I thought a plane was going to crash??? It wasn=92t moving, made no noise and I was approaching it quite fast. The lights were so bright! And I was now about to drive directly underneath it and as I looked up I could see from directly below that it was triangular shaped. Like a scalene triangle, but symmetric. I could see it was black on the bottom with some sporadic little lights on it. Creepy! The weirdest thing is after I drove under it, I saw this dark object in the air behind it. It looked like the bottom of what I had just seen. The lights were so faint; I barely saw it moving through the air. This aircraft was actually moving, but had no lights on. There was a lot of traffic on the highway too so others saw it. There was no mention about it in the news. Thanks to Brian Vike New Jersey =96 Speeding Light UNION -- A UFO sighting report has been received from MUFON. John states, "I went out for a moment in front of the house and saw a beam of light travel from one side of the sky to the other. This just happened at approximately 7:27PM, March 10, 2005. The sky was partly cloudy at the moment this occurred. Thanks to John Schuessler Director MUFON www.mufon.com Nevada =96 UFO Flying Near Fighters NELLIS AIR BASE =96 The photographer writes, "I Joe Held took this photo sometime in August of 2000 out at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas. At the time of this particular shot, all I can say for sure, is that I did not see any of the objects except for the Jet. I only found this picture today, April 3, 2005 as I was going through hundreds of photos I had taken with my Sony Mavica digital camera in the two years I lived in Vegas. I'm not saying what the object might be, only that if you compare them to the Jet Aircraft, they look much too big to be birds. Also in the photo is a F-15 that appears to be roughly the same size. Thanks to Joe Held and http://www.informantnews.com/content-249.html New York - UFOs Over Lake and River WATKINS GLEN -- A few years ago I was traveling north on Route 14, having just left Watkins Glen, NY. My niece, who was in her late teens in the summer of 2000, was accompanying me in my vehicle. I looked to my right and spotted a dark grey colored object in a stationary position above Seneca Lake. It appeared to be shaped quite like a derby hat with a dome shaped top and rim around the bottom. Because Seneca Lake is a large body of water, even at its narrowest point, I could discern the object was quite huge because it loomed large over the water. I alerted my niece to look and she spotted the object and I asked her to describe what she saw. She described the object in the same manner as I viewed it. We watched the object for about 15 seconds when it simply disappeared. We did not see it fly off; it just vanished. Having been a resident of the Finger Lakes region for nearly 38 years, I have been intrigued by UFO sightings in the region. I had heard of a large triangular shaped object that flew silently over a field and heard of a UFO landing to the east of Watkins Glen. I always wondered if UFO's were spotted in the region because a facility called the Seneca Army Weapons Depot was located on the east side of the lake and is a high priority target. Thanks to Brian Vike hbccufo.nul New York - Diamond Shape UFO LATHAM =96The witness reports, "I am a 43 year old lawyer, with excellent eyesight. I was standing outside of my vehicle at 8:10 PM, on an unlit area near Latham Circle, between Route 9 and Interstate 87. I am an avid sky watcher, and I was facing east towards the Hudson River, which was about four miles to the east. I saw movement and saw a black diamond lit at each corner with a dim orange light flying at an altitude of 3,000 feet. There was good visibility and each of these four dim lights marked each point of the diamond. These "corner lights" did not blink or flash. The vehicle blocked the stars behind it as it passed with absolute silence. I was lucky to see it, as the entire presentation, while flatly unmistakable, was quite subtle. It was huge, a couple of hundred yards long and a hundred yards wide. It was gliding to the north at a constant speed of about 100 MPH, and seemed to be following the Hudson River. There was a fifth, and possibly sixth light of the same size and color weaving between two of the leading corner lights. This more rapidly moving light spun apparently random circles and figure eights around the leading (northern) corner light and the around the western corner light. I have never seen anything manmade move with such speed and maneuverability in the sky as did this fifth light. All of the lights moved ahead together as a unified group, not withstanding that there was internal movement within the group. As the vehicle drew away from my position, all of the lights drew together into a tighter cluster, and eventually a single point of light that I lost among the stars. This pulling together of the lights was not merely a function of increasing distance from my vantage point. It happened more quickly than that. A truly amazing, and awe inspiring experience. Thanks to James Bouck Jr. NYMUFON State Director 518-356-6367 Ohio =96 George Ritter Videos FOSTORIA =96 George continues to send interesting images taken with his RCA VHS video camera. This March 20, 2005, photo shows a rod or disc. The craft are thought to be moving at over a thousand miles per hour causing some elongating distortion above the farm. Oregon =96 Possible Triangle Photographed ROSEBURG --. Witness states: "I took this picture off my balcony in Roseburg, Oregon at about 9:30 PM, on Sunday, January 16, 2005.=94 I noticed the lights before they started moving. They were very dim at first but when it started moving they brightened up considerably. It took about 20 minutes to move out of sight over the mountains. I could not tell if it was round or triangular, but I got the impression I was looking at a triangle from the front because of the way the lights were placed. http://www.ufocasebook.com/ Editor=92s Note: UFOs frequently brighten just before moving away at high speed. Tennesssee =96 Disk Photographed KINGSPORT -- MUFON's State Director Kim Shaffer, recieved this report of a strangely shaped object taken on March 26, 2005. Although we can make no determination with the very limited data from the report, the object is suspicious. The witness had taken several photographs from his auto and this one is the only one with the object plainly visible. The witness was in traffic and driving quite fast when he saw the object moving in an erratic fashion. Are these balloons? We simply do not know but do invite other possible witnesses to contact us with their own opinions and possible pictures and data. Thanks to Kim Shaffer MUFON Tn SD www.mufontennessee.org Project Blue Book Files ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO =96Major Roy L. Huddleston, USAF, Air Intelligence Report by S/Sgt t. H. Shorey, who worked for 4925th Test Group (Atomic), at Kirtland Air Force Base. S/Sgt T.H. Shorey reports he observed an object from the ground at 1845 hours (6:45 PM) on 5 June 1952, from his home at 521 South Cedar Street. The object was round in shape, but of indeterminable size. It had a very shiny luster but neither made noise or left a trail. Its speed was described by the observer as approximately five or six times that of an F-86 fighter. It was first sighted at an angle of 80 degrees to the observer on its north course which involved no apparent maneuvers or change of altitude. The object was observed for six seconds in which time it covered the remaining distance across the horizon. The object crossed above a B-29 or B-50 which was flying on an easterly course at 10, 000 feet. It was believed by the observer that the object was at a much greater altitude than the bomber. There were no clouds with a 60-mile visibility and easterly winds aloft of 20 MPH. S/Sgt. Shorey's duty in the 4925th Test Group (Atomic) is in the engineering field. His observations from the mechanical viewpoint should be credited as fairly reliable. He has had experience in judging altitudes and speeds by observing F-86's in flight with the knowledge of their speed and altitude. Approved by Marion R. Mccrackin, Lt. Col, USAF, Wing Operations & Training Officer Thanks to Skywatch International Editor's Note: The UFO report was made by a trusted member of the Air Force to a unit who likely was aware of the crash of a UFO about a hundred miles to the south near Corona. While I was stationed at Scott Air Force Base, my supervisor Bob Woods, Military Airlift Command=92s UFO Officer investigated similar reports. Texas - Unknown Filmed At Dark KAUFMAN COUNTY -- I had a strange and kind of scary experience with a flying something on March 31, 2005. I was night skywatching after sundown, probably between 7:00 and 8:00 PM. It was dark but not too dark to see silhouettes of things flying. I was looking toward the southwest and something very large came from the northwest that I thought was a large bird. I first saw it with my side vision, and it flew upon me so fast that I ducked thinking it was going to hit me. It appeared to be at least 20 feet long as it flew over me. I saw the disk fly over my house and it was completely silent. If it was a bird, I should have heard a swooshing sound or something as it passed over at that speed, but nothing. I'm sending you a photo of something similar that I had taken earlier in the week to show you what I saw. It's about the same size as when I first saw it, but got much bigger as it got closer. =A9 Lawwalk 2005. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D25 78 El PASO --Photographs taken east of El Paso revealed a series of dark UFOs when examined many months later. These photos were taken December 2, 2004. Other smaller UFOs were seen higher in the photo. KAUFMAN COUNTY -- On April 2, 2005, I was watching the sun go down not seeing much of anything to tape or photograph except the sunset towards Dallas. It was perfectly clear today, at sunset I noticed a small airplane coming over, and at 12 o'clock high, straight up. I saw the daylight star again. I was sitting in my pickup, so I got my camcorder and got out. I backed up to the pickup to brace myself and started taping. For twenty or thirty seconds it was still, then all of a sudden the object dimmed down quite a bit and starting emitting a visible smoke or vapor from the right top side of it. The vapor rotated counterclockwise as though the object was turning. It continued to emit vapor for a while and then split into two objects or lights, then into three. Then it started moving to the southwest and disappeared. This all started at 6:50 PM, today and lasted 1 minute and 31 seconds. =A9 Lawwalk 2005 - Video 3.87 mbs To view the video clip and photos: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews =3Darticle =3D2582 Canada - Two Round Objects Hovering SOUTHERN SCARBOROUGH --On April 1, 2005 at approx.6:20 PM, in Southern Scarborough, at Kingston and Birchmount Roads at a recreation center parking lot, I observed a strange object over Lake Ontario, about a mile out from shore. The conditions of the sky were also strange in that direction over the lake. The clouds were streamline, like, different lighted veins of cloud running west to east. I noticed this object about 2000 to 3000 feet above the lake in a crack of these clouds. In description of what I saw with the naked eye, it appeared as if there were two round objects hovering vertical in a tight formation and appeared to have a slight reddish light field around both objects. Well, as usual to confirm a sighting, one would need the aid of witnesses. So I asked two young teenaged females, if they wanted to see a UFO. They said sure, slightly suspicious and of course I pointed it out to them. It took me, about a minute for them to see it. They saw it for about a minute. MISTATIM, SASKATCHEWAN -- On March 23, 2005, the witness was driving on Highway #3 at 10:20 PM. He states, "I was about a kilometer west of Mistatim, heading east toward Hudson Bay when I happened to glance out toward where Vega was in the sky, and noticed a very, very bright light about 8 degrees above and a little to the east of the star.=94 The light was extremely bright, like looking at the bright headlight of an oncoming car. After about 15 - 20 seconds, it began to dim and slowly faded into the darkness of the night sky during another 25 seconds. There was no motion to it - it stayed in the same place in the sky throughout the sighting. I suppose it could have been a satellite, particularly an Iridium satellite, but I was struck by it's lack of movement. I checked with heavens-above.com to see if there were any satellite passes at that time. There were no objects in the heavens-above database for that time (the nearest being at about 4:30 in the afternoon). It could have been a satellite, I guess, but who knows? To view the video clip: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D25 41 Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Mexico =96 Multiple Sightings On March 20, 2005, UFO researcher Ana Luisa Cid photographed a spherical object in Mexico State's Tlalnepantla Municipality. Days later, she discovered that the helicopter shown in the image belongs to the police authorities and it was flying at low altitude to monitor disturbances with area street peddlers. The spherical object became apparent when she downloaded the images to her computer. On March 22, 2005, aviation technician Alfonso Salazar, from the Radio Red news station reported that a spherical UFO had been reported as hanging motionless over the vicinity of Tlalnepantla, Mexico State. On, Alfonso Salazar and Carlos Guzm=E1n (renowned Mexican UFO researcher) were interviewed to issue an opinion on the subject. On Easter Thursday March 24, 2005, Mrs. Malena Mendieta reported to Professor Cid that she had witnessed strange low-flying lights near her window in the Patera Vallejo neighborhood to the north of Mexico City. These lights emitted a buzzing sound that impressed her greatly. This sighting took place during early morning hours and she was in the company of her daughter. On Good Friday, March 24, 2005, Alfonso Salazar and Salvador Guerrero managed to observe and record a spherical object over eastern Mexico City that suddenly changed speed and trajectory exactly as the Crucifixion was being reenacted in Ixtapalapa. Note: the photos show the respective sightings by Prof. Ana L. Cid and Salvador Guerrero. On March 26, 2005, an aviation technician reported a spherical object emitting white lights in the city's southern region, flying at high altitude from south to north. Translation (c) 2005, Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU). UK =96 RAF Plots, Assess, Monitors UFOs GUERNSEY CHANNEL ISLANDS -- A RAF intelligence officer wrote to tell me that her job was to assess, plot, monitor and record UFO activity in the late 1950s and early 1960s. She writes, "I remain completely convinced of extra-terrestrial communication/presence, and of the fact that there is a higher intelligence, and that there are many more dimensions to our existence than we humans on earth can comprehend.=94 It is plainly obvious that governments will suppress any and all information: and all of this for again obvious reasons. But there has to be an awakening very soon, for everyone; there are many many voices to be heard. Confidentiality has always been part of my moral- code but I really feel that anything which affects this planet, our universe and ultimately, the whole solar =96system/s affects us all.=94 World War II - UFOs on Film Dave writes, I was watching a 5 disk package DVD of "WW II Road to Victory=94 that shows the "Bombing of Ploesti" in "July 1943 that I purchased at Borders. It is a completely colorized version and on disk 4 under Stationed in North Africa, 174 Allied B-24 bombers begin a dangerous 13-hour mission to hit Romania's oil refineries." It is a "Lions Gate Home Entertainment DVD" I noticed, for just a few seconds of the footage, there shows about five American aircraft with a bright blue sky and their contrails, and up higher and traveling even faster than these planes is an egg shaped object /bogy clearly visible - This was taken by the aircraft gunner. It is at about the 12:37 mark for only about 5 seconds. I hadn=92t seen this type of thing before I probably would have missed it, but it is very obvious now. I suspect they were keeping tabs on the Americans, and, I hope, were on our side protecting them! Thanks to David Smith, Gaithersburg, MD Earth Changes Continue Mitch Battros writes, An 8.9 quake hit Indonesia on March 28, 2005, killing some fifty people, in the same general area where 300,000 died. A 7.0 quake hit Japan and while a 6.9 quake hit Argentina. There is a rash of large quakes occuring around the ring of fire. Nothing extraordinary, but I can=92t help but think there may be a connection to what I am now calling "solar quakes=94. Something unusual is occurring on the Sun. This is now the second time I have witnessed an unusual spike in the Kp index, with increased earthquake activity to occur within 48 to 72 hours of this event. I did ask Dr. Paal Brekke, Deputy Director of the SOHO project and stationed at NASA/Goddard Space Center, if there could be a connection. His answer matched what I had reported in two or three articles posted earlier this month. "At this time there is no data or current research which connects such events=94. And again, I would agree in full, however, I am suspect there may be some unknown phenomena we just have not yet embraced. http://earthchangestv.com/ Mars Cliff -Ancient Secrets Jerry Wills writes, "I just received the image with the symbols found on the side of Burns Cliff inside Endurance Crater from Filer=92s Files 14. We have as a member of our team a specialist of ancient languages. I'll connect with him, sending the photo. If you have any others send them along as soon as you can so I can send him a few to look over. With his permission I will connect you two. I find the image very interesting. The Mars symbols look similar to several we have discovered in a very remote region of the eastern Andes at a "lost city" site. If real, the evidence suggests a link to that civilization we have discovered existing before the last severe earth shift about 14 thousand years ago. We have been looking for such evidence for quite awhile. Our theory is that mankind had achieved space travel during this epoch. We believe Mars was populated and very habitable. It is our guess that 'something" entered our solar system and passed nearby to Mars' orbit. The atmosphere was sucked or burned away leaving it a barren world. Several pictures we have examined from the Mars Rover suggest this is the case. Our goal is to find evidence here (on Earth) to substantiate this notion. We have found several items suggesting this possibility. To continue our research, we leave for South America late May for several months. If you are interested I can add your address to our email list to keep you connected to our journey - unless you want to join us, of course. Thanks for your efforts and research. I believe many of us working and sharing our findings add puzzle pieces to help build a clear idea of this planet's past. As you likely understand, we have never been allowed to know the truth. Perhaps our combined efforts will eventually break that cycle. Best Wishes, Jerry Wills "ttp://www.XpeditionsMagazine.com Editor=92s Note: People are seeing and photographing UFOs daily, and their lives are suddenly changed, because they have no where to talk about it without ridicule. Often it is the most incredible experience of their lives. Many times they have radar, video cameras, digital and infrared cameras to prove the existence of the UFOs. The evidence for UFOs is much more reliable than either the theory of evolution or the Big Bang theory considered as fact by science. In the 18th century, the French Academy of Science denied that stones could fall from the heavens, and rejected the mass of witness=92s testimony as superstitious nonsense. For most of the 20th century, scientists dismissed continental drift as fantasy, despite the observations that Africa and South America seemed to fit together, and shared many geological properties. It is time for science to start to look at the evidence for UFO=92s despite what they were taught in school. Iraq =96 Plot of Grass Mindy Gerber sent me this photo of an Army soldier in Iraq with his tiny "plot" of grass in front of his tent. It's heartwarming! Here is a soldier in Iraq, stationed in a big sand box. He asked his wife to send him dirt (U.S. soil), fertilizer and some grass seeds so he can have the sweet aroma and feel the grass grow beneath his feet. If you notice, he is even cutting the grass with a pair of a scissors. Sometimes we are in such a hurry that we don't stop and think about the little things that we take for granted. Upon receiving this, please say a prayer for our soldiers that give and give so unselfishly for us. http://www.mufontennessee.org/ North Carolina - UFO Images Alan Caviness reports, This photo, one of many in my ongoing collection, shows one of the aerial objects that operate cloaked over my home area in central North Carolina. The UFOs are invisible in most cases and are usually engulfed in some type of energy field that obscures their hulls from imaging. The energy fields seem to be in a state of flux changing constantly from very strong to very weak. But a few local colleagues and I have found that shooting them with flashes from digital cameras allows at least a "near-infrared" image to be captured by the typical digital camera. Seen here is one of the objects "emerging" from its energy field. The photo had to be enlarged and digitally enhanced to bring out maximum details. The aerial operations have resumed for this year, and we are expecting to get even more dramatic photos which will be available through Filer's Files only. His weekly Filers Files have been a very helpful resource for us independent investigators in North Carolina so we are making dozens of our images available. You can get them free with a subscription to Filer's Files. Thanks to Alan Caviness Subscribe to Filer's Files to receive UFO CD So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. George A. Filer has been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Your dollars do make a difference! We appreciate our loyal subscribers and will continue to grow with your help. Right now we need $300 to upgrade our website. Annual Membership is only $25 for 52 weekly intelligence reports. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055. You can also Click: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master Charge. REAL ESTATE Relocation Help! Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help you relocate, buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at: Majorstar.nul MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to ajorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: The Secret of Roswell An April Fools Joke - From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:26:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:58:59 -0400 Subject: Re: The Secret of Roswell An April Fools Joke - >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:31:22 +0100 (BST) >Subject: The Secret of Roswell An April Fools Joke >Before this gets any further out of hand, I confirm that the >Secret of Roswell article was an April Fools joke. <snip> >Remorsefully, >Stuart Miller Stuart: Even though we spent a few hours asking online movie gurus if there was a Roswell film in production in the Phillipines, we love the April 1st "joke". Pulling our legs, all of us, was lighthearted and a nice respite from the often humdrum and stodgy matters that take over UFO UpDates and ufology generally.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 7 Re: The Secret of Roswell An April Fools Joke - From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 07:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 21:00:48 -0400 Subject: Re: The Secret of Roswell An April Fools Joke - >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:31:22 +0100 (BST) >Subject: The Secret of Roswell An April Fools Joke >Before this gets any further out of hand, I confirm >that the >Secret of Roswell article was an April Fools joke. I, for one, had a good time with this. And I readily admit to falling for it. I was skeptical - especially of some of the details - but thought it was just weird enough to possibly be for real. That said, I read "The Secret of Roswell" on April 2nd, when the prospect of jokes had passed from my mind. If I'd read it on the 1st, you can rest assured I would have totally seen through it. ;-) Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:00:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:02:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:36:04 EDT >Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms >I challenge you to come up with a single term >for "normal full motor inhibition during REM dream sleep" now >that cataplexy has been taken from that definitional role.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:08:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:05:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reason >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas Now that Brad Sparks has had his say in response to this one: <snip> >I will note that in case 039 in Bullard's "The UFO Abductions: >The Measure of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases," >that Egidio Silva reported that he had gone outside because his >dog was barking, a powerful light was shown down on him and >he felt paralyzed. Not the best example, for sure, but one that >fits, generally, the conditions of waking paralysis. As a matter of fact, powerful lights shining down are not a characteristic feature of sleep paralysis; the hallucinations asociated with sleep paralysis tend to take the form of geometrical shapes which may become elaborated into figures. Also, sleep paralysis and cataplexy are not states in which one feels paralyzed; they are states in which one actually is paralyzed. When people talk of "feeling paralyzed", they are usually referring to a tonic state such as freezing or rigid, stiff immobility, rather than an atonic state such as cataplexy or sleep paralysis. There is an easy way of distinguishing between the two - in a tonic state the individual will "freeze solid", whereas in a completely atonic state they will fall to the ground unless supported. >Actually, in Bullard's report, there are a number of cases in >which dreams are suggested as the original "memory" of the >event. In case 194c, "Pamela Armstrong," it is reported that >"In a dream the >witness saw a bright egg-shaped and domed >object land. Two beings stepped out. She was unable to move. >The beings took her inside." Did this inability to move resemble a tonic or an atonic state? Also, was the dream itself the source of this experience of being unable to move? It presumably makes no sense to invoke concepts such as sleep paralysis to explain events that are only known to have occurred in dreams. <snip> >Roach was "captured," taken onto the craft and examined. She was >returned to the house, where she "awakened" to the trauma of her >kids screaming and the cat screaming. In the transcript it is implied >that she awakened unable to move, something that she did say between >the sessions. Of course, the paralysis only lasts briefly, and once the >victim is able to move even the smallest amount, the paralysis is >broken=E2?=A6 at which time she was able to call the police. I know nothing about this case other than what you have said here, but I would suggest caution before ascribing these events to sleep paralysis purely on the basis that the report contains an account of being unable to move. If you were to argue that, on the grounds of parsimony, sleep paralysis and hypnotic confabulation could not be ruled out in this case, I'd agree (on the basis of what you've described here) but I certainly wouldn't regard this as a concrete identification. Apart from anything else this would risk contaminating the database of sleep paralysis with dubious cases. Though I think this is probably already happening - for example, see: http://watarts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html Especially note some of the cases under the section entitled "visual hallucinations". I'm not at all sure that all of these are genuinely examples of sleep paralysis. <snip> >In case 193b, on page C-180, Emily Cronin and Jan Whitley, >relate they were driving when both women became tired, so they >pulled off the road to sleep. Both women consciously remembered >seeing a light, heard a high-pitched whine and felt paralyzed by >it. Though in this case, one would presumably have to postulate sleep paralysis occurring in two individuals simultaneously. >Under hypnosis, Emily remembered a tall humanoid. The >witnesses concentrated on moving, and when successful, the >paralysis ended and the light and the being were both gone. I >might point out here that this sounds like classic sleep >paralysis. In a later abduction, Emily reported a luminous >"white bubble." I'm not at all sure I'd agree that there is even such a thing as "classic sleep paralysis". One of the problems with sleep paralysis is that it isn't a phenomenologically rich state - there are simply not a lot of features by which its presence can be ascertained. In principle, any case in which a person awakes unable to move can be retrospectively identified as sleep paralysis (which is undoubtedly one of the reasons why the concept is invoked so frequently). But there are other conditions which can manifest as an inability to move on waking. For example, there is a common traumatic response known as "freezing", which is believed to be related to the condition of tonic immobility in animals. (Tonic immobility is the technical name for what is popularly known as "playing possum".) Night-time waking is also a common sequela to psychological trauma, and often results in flashbacks, which can involve freezing. An account of this could easily look like sleep paralysis to someone who wasn't specifically looking to screen it out. Bear in mind also that there is a marked tendency for academic psychologists to favor non-clinical categories over clinical ones (isolated sleep paralysis is not considered to be a clinical condition, unlike post-traumatic response). There is also a well-established tendency in both psychology and psychiatry to overuse concepts, and to overdiagnose conditions, which happen to be fashionable at any given moment. >Let me describe what has become the typical abduction case. "An >unsuspecting woman is in her room preparing to go to bed. She >gets into bed, reads a while, turns off the light, and drifts >off into a peaceful night's sleep. In the middle of the night >she turns over and lies on her back. She is awakened by a light >that seems to be glowing in her room. The light moves toward her >bed and takes the shape of a small 'man' with a bald head and >huge black eyes. She is terrified. She wants to run but she >cannot move. She wants to scream but she cannot speak. The "man' >moves toward her and looks deeply into her eyes. Suddenly she is >calmer and she 'knows' that the 'man' is not going to hurt her." >This could easily be a description of an episode of sleep >paralysis. Oh yes, the quote is from page 49 of Secret Life by >David Jacobs. I want to point out again that lights glowing into the room are not a characteristic feature of sleep paralysis. Also, if one is looking for something like a canonical description or prototype of sleep paralysis, there are certain features of it which don't seem to be systematically associated with UFO abductions, such as a feeling of weight or pressure which is believed to be directly linked to the atonia. Of course, this apparent absence might just mean that people haven't been asking the right questions. I want to emphasize that I am not saying here that no UFO abduction can poossibly be accounted for by means of sleep
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Gonzalez From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:37:47 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:07:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Gonzalez >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:34:10 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas Brad, Kevin Randle just cited some cases_included by Bullard_ in his much praised "The UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery". The fault is Bullard's, not Randle=B4s. And Bullard probably included them because in some moment one ufologist described them as abductions. You wrote, >You have blithely ignored Stan's original >point which I will quote here again from above: >>>>>>How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >>>>>>sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >>>>>>cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking >>>>>>etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >>>>>>abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >>>>>>disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving or >>>>>>doing other non horizontal activities? >Is it or is not true that there are "literally hundreds of >cases" of UFO abductions "where the people aren't in bed, but >are driving, walking etc." or "doing other non horizontal >activities"?? What are the statistics here? You're the expert, >so show us some expertise. IMHO, No, it is not true that there are "literally hundreds of cases" of UFO abductions "where the people aren't in bed.... etc. Once again, it is Stanton Friedman who should provide those statistics. The only ones I have been able to find (Bullard's in his magnus opus) catalogs just 270 abduction cases up to 1985, but IMHO only 144 can be properly considered abductions. How many of those abductees were driving, walking, etc... I do not know because I cannot look it up. In any case, I would never suggest that sleep disorders explain those kind of alleged abductions. I believe that sleep disorders
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - King From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:43:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:09:49 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - King >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 12:20:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 11:05:43 -0300 >>Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>James, forget the March 2004 flap (true or false) and please >>take a look at this: >>http://www.ufo.com.br/videos-traillers/mexico2005/pill07.wmv >Forget the March 2004 flap!!! Do you know how much work we all >had to do on that! I know how much work I had to do and it is >not pleasant to see that regardless how much work you do on >something, some folk will _never_ accept or even address >responsibly the work. >>What do you make of it? >Although the video seems interesting, the problem with it is >that I can do nothing to confirm or deny video or photos like >this. If one had taken stereo video/photos we might be able to >understand the distance better, if we had the winds data a >various altutudes then we could rule out balloons. It certainly >looks like a flock of tied together balloons. >If a spectrometer had been used to view the objects we might >glean something of what they are made of via the reflected light >or emitted light. A duplication of the event using mylar or >white balloons tied together may help assess it. >Whether birds could possibly flock like this I doubt but I am not an avian expert. >It seems like they are beyond the clouds (what is the cloud >height?). That's all I can think of. >Good luck on resolving it. >Sadly, we have alot of interesting UFO images that are hard or >impossible to resolve. The Campeche UFOs were an exception. Hi James, As an alternative to acquiring the information you request... as indeed this kind of data are often unavailable after the fact, I suggest looking at known videos of similar nature and discernign what similarities actually exist. I submit the following.. http://www.trisomy18angel.com/angelday.htm Click on the Video link to see the short video. The relavent part is about 40 seconds into the video. Short but startlingly similar to the flotilla video. While I cannot say this is the same thing, the similarities are so striking that there is little to indicate that the "flotilla" is one of many balloons, rather than occupied ET vehicles.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 Paul Kimball's Blog From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:12:46 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:12:21 -0400 Subject: Paul Kimball's Blog An Open Reply to Paul Kimball's Blog Comments of March 17, 2005: Paul, Nonsense. You haven't seen my univesity transcript, so haven't a clue as to whether I am a university taught historian or not. If it helps I majored in both Education and Media. Secondly, my status as an historian in Ufology is correct. You ramble about me not being a historian...but you deceive your readers. You only give half the truth. Kinda like in your so-called documentary videos. I never claimed to be an historian. I've only stated myself to be a ufological historian and have proved so for years by the sheer volume of contributions to the field and its preservation. I certainly have nothing to prove to you or anyone else within or outside Ufology. My work and efforts speak for me. My critics remain just that... little people without the guts to do the real work and spend their time futzing around trying to sound important and knowledgable and making complete asses of themselves. If you perceive me as arrogant, that's fine. I could care less. I have no time for all talk, no action, type people and their spittle. I once worked with a fellow who had a 5th grade education and had been an industrial mechanic for over 40 years. When the company reorganized the maintenance section, they hired a team of new university-trained and educated engineers to oversee maintenance of the plant systems. The old fellow took his retirement quietly. After 4 months these university trained professionals, still couldn't get the main blenders to function correctly. I watched these guys over the entire time. Machines were dismantled and reassembled with new moving parts. Eventually the machines were rigged with all kinds of improvements. But, they continued to constantly malfunction. Sombif (that was his nickname and I'll tell you why in a minute), was finally called in by an older company vice-president. Sombif took at look at the machines, asked one question and fixed the problem in 15 minutes. He was rehired by the company, given a juicy raise and was put in charge of the engineers to train them. I learned two lessons from Sombif. First, experience trumps everything else. Second, the measure of person is in the quality and quantity of their contributions and degrees and corse work count for very little but learning the general background before you really begin learning. Thus, Paul, my degrees don't make me an historian. My contributions and preservation efforts have and speaks volumes, regardless of your feelings about me.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Freeman From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:33:28 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:14:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Freeman >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:44:24 -0500 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >By now you visited our blog, and see that I've added much more >material, pro and con, even though I had hoped not to get >embroiled in the abduction controversy, even after having had >some discourse with Dr. John Mack a while back, and recently >with Will Bueche, whom I have great respect for, and who >certainly seems to have experienced an abduction that is >tangible. Hello Rich, Yes, you are correct and I have visited your blog. I was not impressed. To suggest that sleep paralysis, as well as hypnagogic and hypnopompic experiences, explain the alien abduction phenomenon simply denies the facts behind such encounters. Perhaps you need to interview/meet other abductees such as Mr. Bueche to really appreciate the reality that their experiences portray. Something tangible here, something else there, just might add up enough to have you back at square one and rethinking your stance on the issue.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Kinross Incident - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:58:34 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:22:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Kinross Incident - Sparks >From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:07:52 -0700 >Subject: Re: Kinross Incident >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:18:21 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:03:14 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:26:31 EST >>>>Subject: Re: Kimball BlogPost On Wilbert Smith <snip> >>>>Pieces of the jet were found several months later. >>>Pieces of the jet found later? That slipped past me somehow, and >>>its important. >>>Can you verify this? Links or whatever? >>Jerry Clark sent me a clipping from years later. It said that >>the wreckage recovered could be from one of three aircraft, >>including the Kinross interceptor. >>No more information is available. >>Brad agrees that we both saw the same news article which I have >>temporarily misplaced. Jerry mentioned the new report in his >>encyclopedia. >Given the similarity of the news accounts, this is presumably >from the same news articles from October 30th and 31st, 1968 >that were published in the Sault Star which I referred to in a >previous post on the same topic. It also might be from an >article in a different newspaper that was relying on the same
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:25:21 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:33:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Reason >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:36:04 EDT >Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms I do wonder if this is even worth mentioning, but: >The quote I gave and which you snipped out quite >clearly does not support your definition of cataplexy but >supports mine. >"...Cataplexy is a normal sleep behavior occurring at an >abnormal time. It is characteristic of rapid eye movement (REM) >sleep - that stage of nighttime sleep during which we dream. The >loss of muscle tone is nature's way to prevent us from acting >out our dreams. " To my reading, that says that cataplexy is a normal behavior occurring at an abnormal time, which clearly implies that it is not a normal behavior occurring at a normal time. I guess how you interpret the second sentence depends on whether you regard the pronoun "it" as referring to the word "cataplexy" or the phrase "normal sleep behavior" in the previous sentence. But I really think this sort of exegesis is ultimately pointless
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 An Open Letter To James Moseley From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:30:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:46:53 -0400 Subject: An Open Letter To James Moseley Re: 2/15/05 Issue of Saucer Smear http://www.martiansgohome.com/smear/v52/ss050215.htm >Just as we had hoped, last issue's "Hall of Shame" List has >stirred up a lot of interesting comments and suggestions. Let us >make it clear again that the List only includes ufologists with >whom your editor has interacted personally. If we tried to >include all the weirdos, fakes, egomaniacs, and other >undesirables in the entire field of ufoology, we simply would >not have enough Space! <snip> >Another candidate we overlooked is Wendy Connors, who wrote in >regard to "Shockingly Close to the Truth!": "...Like the >proverbial brain-damaged dog, (Moseley) continues unabated as >the decades click onward and good trees are sacrificed to put >out a bad product". We think we once met Wendy, sort of, but >we're not sure. While sitting in the Founders' Office at the >International UFO Museum in Roswell, during the Festival of >2002, we noticed a very obese middle-aged woman who failed to >identify hereself. We believe this was Wendy, god bless her! (Fairy, er, umm, Ferry Boat) Commander Moseley, First, let me assure you that we had never met in Roswell in 2000. If we had, I would have run from the room to get my shotgun. Also, I'm not as physically plump as in the past. Cancer is now slowly correcting that, so my physical attributes shouldn't offend you as much in the future. You have done me a great honor by listing me with the likes of Jerome Clark and Richard Hall as the most hated people in Ufology. It is thrilling knowing for a fact I must be doing something correctly to get you bent out of shape. I noticed your own name missing from the list, but I do understand the reason for the ommision. Sorry you didn't like my review of your book. It sure got you a lot more press and orders than you were getting. Otherwise, why would you have promoted the review as hard as you did? You are, by the way, welcome and I appreciated the inscription in the copy I purchased relaying your appreciation. BTW, I demote you to the rank of E-3. Anyone who can't get beyond the pencil or themselves, isn't ready for command.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 8 Dr. Lynne Kitei's The Phoenix Lights From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 07:28:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:50:57 -0400 Subject: Dr. Lynne Kitei's The Phoenix Lights Dr. Lynne Kitei And The "The Phoenix Lights" by Alfred Lehmberg www.AlienView.net I hope Dr. Kitei has adequate security... As for me, I'm getting ready to flex my ufological bungee cords once again! Cleats and hardware are metaphorically magnafluxed, cords are checked and treated, and rip-stop anklers are snuggly fitted around my demure jumper's mukluks... preflight is complete. All the required equipment necessary to live to fight another day... prepared for action! Let's, really, roll! I might shoot myself from a cannon out over the abyss for this one... it seems it may be justified. I sense some lift out there in the hoary reaches of an unending space provided. A running leap into the ufological abyss does seem appropriate given the confluences of conspicuous circumstances in (and out of) a 'painstream' so disturbed and distorted by corruption and dishonesty that it can, only fallaciously, be referred to as a 'mainstream' anymore, at all. Still, some new light is communicated to me by Dr. Kitei through the 'official' and obfuscating smog. But, what 'confluences' and 'conspicuous circumstances' am I talking about? I think Dr. Kitei perceives the following, too. Swirling together into serendipitous if unusual conjunction, and accelerating as they swirl, are cutting edge discoveries in the physical sciences, theologies, psychologies, and philosophies et sig al. This is compounded and multiplied by information technology, communicational ease and efficiency, high-speed data transfer, and massive data storage. All of the preceding is further compounded as a result of the realization by more and more individual folks all the time... that the 'official' versions of 'how things are' may not serve their best interests. They don't. Our socio-biological cultural view is stubbornly and irrationally homocentric and therefore wrong (...we'd be much better off culturally, socially functioning under an auspices that we were not alone in the expanding 'multi-verse'... think about it...). Our manufacturing base is geared to quick profit taking, planned obsolescence, environmental pollution, and energy wastage... and is therefore wrong (...we'd be well served by energy saving hybrid automobiles built well enough to be heirlooms rather than rusting heaps replaced every few years...) Our facile education system is contrived to mass-produce blandly docile employees instead of critical thinkers and is therefore... so wrong! Our reflex denial of multiple levels of ufological evidence, from the physical through the photographic to the historical and the personal... is wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong -- a slow, agonizing, and fretful demise for all humanity, I suspect. Verily, we resist our cultural evolution and upcoming birth like we've dug in spiked boot-heels from the womb side of our evolutionary cervix. This is a metaphor demanding misery and death for all concerned, surely. Moreover, it is clear that the 'many' presently suffer... for these convenient boot-heels of the duplicitous 'few' in reflexive and self-facilitating denial. Just lately, though, it may be that Dr. Kitei is in position to apply a little humanistic 'jiffy-lube' to those aforementioned boot-heels. Cosmic midwives might, hopefully, be standing at the ready. Dr. Lynne Kitei is an internationally-acclaimed physician and health educator, a leading professional in the "cutting-edge era" of early disease detection and prevention, and is Chief Clinical Consultant at the (world-renowned!) Arizona Heart Institute's Imaging/Prevention/Wellness Center in Phoenix, Arizona. Additionally, Dr. Kitei has appeared as the resident health reporter for the NBC TV affiliates in Philadelphia, PA... and in Phoenix, Arizona, as medical consultant for KPHO TV News in that city... and has been featured on USA Cable, FOX TV News (...she can be forgiven for that, I suppose...), and MSNBC. Dr. Kitei also wrote and appeared, all over the world, in more than a hundred informational health segments on television. Oh... and yes... while a genuine skeptic and in no way 'looking' for them at the start, she has seen more than a few... UFOs. That's right. On the night of March 13, 1997 in Phoenix, Arizona, a plethora of sober persons (numbered in the thousands!) were outside, anyway, to cage a look at the (still very mysterious) Hale-Bopp comet... then in the evening sky. An infamous comet was not the only thing in the firmament that night! This other thing was also witnessed by many thousands. Truth. Lynne Kitei was one of those thousands. What she saw and photographed was to change her life completely, cause her to reassess her entire worldview, and then bravely risk a substantial reputation to make some kind of sense of what she and many, many others had witnessed on that fateful night. She remains glad, I think, that she's buckled up for the ride. She was naturally very curious, right off the bat, about this... huge occurrence! When she made casual inquires, altogether rational inquires I add, she was rebuffed, mildly ridiculed, lied to, made the butt of insulting sarcasm, and otherwise assiduously stonewalled! Kitei is a scientist you see, and a suspect "status quo" was ill served when it tried to shine her on in the beginning of the quest imposed upon her. ...Authoritarians never learn, do they. They never see that their disrespectfully repressive approach is always their eventual undoing. Mash something down 'here', and it only pops up over 'there'... just meaner for the mashing. I digress... The stonewallers tried to blow-off the wrong lady, indeed, friends and neighbors. A scientist like I said, she was also well keyed into professional media production, was a medical doctor's "talking-head" on NBC, and at one time she was even featured in a film with Nicolas Cage... Can you smell, 'connected', good reader? Are you starting to rub your hands together, as I have? This lady has connected teeth in addition to substantial chops. I'm popping corn! See, Dr. Kitei took a hard 90 degree turn right into enigma's yawning maw and, end-running the whole of our fatuous 'officialdom', refocused on her new (...perhaps life?)goal of finding out what the hell was going on with regard to UFOs! She's very obviously strapped in for this bumpy ride, has fixed her sextant on this new "star to steer by", and hauled her ample mainsail. Her colors fly, reader! Dr. Kitei is a scientist like I said. She didn't see a weird light in the sky and then run off to join a crystal squeezing 'boojum' cult to say beads and worship runes (...with all respect to Boojum crystal squeezers, bead Sayers, and rune worshippers everywhere...). No, she did her homework, she studied the evidence, she interviewed the vetted principals... she reviewed the skeptical opposition she'd too blithely accepted before... She did her research, brothers and sisters, yea and verily! A new world literally exploded around her. She began to suspect she was no longer (...had never been!) in Kansas, and Auntie "M" (...cubed?) was a myth and nowhere to be found! There'll be no heel-clicking return from this Oz. Besides, who'd want to? As the reader may recall, a multicolored Oz was preferable, preferential, and more fully featured with potentiality than Dorothy's grey scale dust-bowl. Speaking for myself, I'd opt to stay in Oz. Another digression. Dr. Kitei, to continue, was flatly amazed at the startling quality and abundant quantity of the evidence readily available for study! A scientist, so you don't forget, she realized that there is really no such thing as "proof" actually, only evidence, only ever 'evidence'... that one individual will accept over another individual. That 'subjectivity' remains to be the foundation of the final 'objectivity'... is a strange twist of irony... but, reach exceeds grasp or what's a heaven for? She was absolutely stunned to discover the number of quality persons who report, at risk, the activities and actions of these strangely enigmatic lights and anomalous objects... objects steadfastly refusing to go away! ...And Persons exist, good reader, Dr. Kitei discovers, who are too many times dashed (by the system) on the seemingly indifferent shoals of the mainstream's abject and inexplicable DENIAL... of anything ufological or zeno-archeological or historically revisionistic, or remotely investigative of the darkly powerful. She was outraged, I suspect, to discover the head-in-the-sand, derisively mannered, and deleterious approbations from top level government, jet-setting corporate, or larded establishment church wheels with regard to UFOs! It became clear to her that, to this point, and for all the pain (and death!) of some brave and intelligent ufological worthies, ufological considerations by the conflicted mainstream were data driving and not, remotely, data driven. Lies, not truth. I can't speak for Dr. Kitei, but I suspect that her disappointment upon this gestalt realization of ongoing betrayal was, to say the least, profound... I imagine this disappointment was followed by angered resentment at being so manipulated, duped, and otherwise shined on her whole life by the duplicitous establishment... I may be projecting... <g>. Regardless, she's in a round of UFO Hold'em and already dealt a couple of aces, considering her reputation and education, ... and knowing that her opponents in the game have nothing but small cards in different suits, or, nothing, that is to say... she's exuberated to play with the idea of going "all in" as the game progresses... perhaps? This is, I detect, because she can prove the Flop, predicts the Turn card, and has already divined the River, I'm betting. The only way an opposition wins now is to lie, cheat, and steal... convince the water-heating masses they disrespect that UFOs are facile fantasy and anyone who wastes time on them is SICK, LYING, or LAZY... Just thinking out loud... What could be made up out of whole cloth about the good Doctor Kitei to provide the rain for this refreshing parade she's, perhaps, about to launch at the grass roots about UFOs? What character attacks must she stoically endure in the future? Kitei may prove to be a rallying standard around which physicists can consort with philosophers and theologists can collaborate with humanists. It would be tres' convenient for the status quo if she would "get out" of the UFO business, I expect. Her detractors are well behind the credibility curve and lose more supporting relevancy every day, while Kitei has already filled her sails with a righteous east wind and can easily out- sail this bloated and illogical squall of card-carrying reflex debunkers... tack away from the cloying insinuations of pelicanist sturm and klasskurtzian drang. She's already produced the 'book' and couched that written explication with a video 'documentary' that is unsurpassed with regard to data following sincerity, legitimately compelling production values, and an all-enriching inspirational optimism for our unfolding future... if we let it unfold that is. And such a film it is... This just mentioned film is a first rate production of one of the most startling ufological accounts of our time... "The Phoenix Lights"... an account very similar to other accounts from the past which have been chronicled by vetted human beings (even if ignored) for as long as we have been able to put pen to paper and even burnt stick to cave wall... ...Even before Christ! Even before Buddha! Even before Moses...before Krishna... before Osiris, Marduk, and El Al... all the way back to Enki and Enlil and beyond. We're not only not alone, reader... we've never been 'alone'. Moreover, Doctor Kitei attempts to take a few more bravely unpopular steps out on that ufological limb, forgetting for a moment that someone has to make the traverse because that's where the informational nuts and berries are... The Doctor, respected reader, is open to 'optimism' with regard to this 'thing'... yes. She is energized by this thing. She is inspired by this thing. She is as reassured as she is excited by this thing. So are others interviewed . Optimism is a new flag flying. This thing has improved her values, enhanced her already very satisfying (I suspect) existence, reinvented her focus, and widened her views. Dusk becomes a new dawn, verily. She's in excellent company. Many more are similarly affected. Thusly, Dr. Kitei is truly in a position to lance the boil of our aggregate ignorance, and so has become a dangerous woman. Dangerous to who? Who are these? Just who are "they"? Let's talk about 'them' briefly. "They" are... the privileged arbitrary, the unelected, and far too many of the elected. "They," are those who have, and having had, would keep on having despite an aggregate detriment to the common good of those who "have not." "They," are in possession of information that would credit or be to the advantage of anyone who 'knew', specifically outlining why most know not. "They" are the 'secret keepers'. "They" are the jealous manipulators of the mainstream. "They" are the ardent covetous who encourage bland employees while they discourage critical thinkers. "They" are the ones with suspicious agendas, duplicitous plans, and secret programs. "They" are the 'few' willing to profit, egregiously, at the expense of the 'many'. "They" are above the law, outside reasonable ethics, practice a sociopathic amorality, and hold the many enthralled... but beneath their privileged contempt... If raw news has any relevancy in these tumultuous times, these precepts are obvious. Not to put too fine a point on it. To wit: The preceding are not persons to lightly be dangerous to; one might readily agree... So, I hope Dr. Lynne has good security... as at this point she is just what the doctor ordered, even as her efforts put her head way up over the berm and her hull well out of defilade... I admonish her to keep her 'eyes' open. She's been an inspiration to me, and you too, I'm betting, if you have a look. Remember, she's got the Hold, the Flop, the Turn, and the River! The pot seems hers for the taking... That's enough... Anybody have a cannon? News and info on her startling book and stunning documentary can be found at:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 9 FOTOCAT News April 2005 From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul> Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:42:07 +0200 (CEST) Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:54:53 -0400 Subject: FOTOCAT News April 2005 Latest news on the progress of the FOTOCAT Project (Anomaly Foundation, Spain) is to be found at: http://www.fotocat.blogspot.com/ Best regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:38:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:57:40 -0400 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team - Hatch >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:02:42 +0100 >Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:42:59 -0700 >>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:55:40 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>Notably, the 2 policemen had mistook Venus for a "flying > cross", >> Venus as a 'ball of light' seems more plausible. >>Neither of my sources gave the Venus finding, just the original >>mystery. Do any of the sources on your long list cite Venus or >>mention the astronomer? >>Given that Venus stands, this sounds like an excellent entry >> for my discredited sightings list online: >>http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html >>...especially in view of the many citations provided. >>May I take it that most serious ufologists there accept the >>Venus explanation? >(Apologies to the List if this is answer is by now redundant; >I've been travelling and off-line for a few days.) >I remember this 1967 "flying cross" case well from the >publicity at the time and from later books and articles. >A brilliant Venus can appear "rayed" or spiky, or "bright, but >not brilliant, star-spangled - just like looking through wet >glass" as one of the policemen described the object. >Moisture in the eye or atmospheric haze or a smudged/misted >windscreen can all help. >At 0400 the object was low on the E horizon. It appeared to >recede rainbow-like ahead of the chasing car, speeding low over >trees, and appeared to "react" to the twist and turns of the >car, which is typical of an illusory motion due to the vehicle. >I've checked the astronomical data. Venus was low on the >horizon almost due E. It rose at 0341 local, very bright at >magnitude - 3.8. >Also the policemen said that the UFO was joined by a second >similar, but less bright object, before they lost sight of it. >Jupiter was also low on the E horizon, near Venus, only about >12 degrees above it at magnitude -0.7. >Chances are good that this sighting was Venus (plus Jupiter) >seen through patchy cloud, and similar sightings were made at >different locations over the next 2 or 3 days. >Opinion at the time swung in favour of mid-air refuelling >exercises. A USAF exercise was reportedly underway at 26,000' >above SW England and the tanker belly was said to be illuminated >by a row of lights, but it turned out that this exercise was >confined to the evening hours on the relevant date(s). >Some sightings may have been caused by this, but IMO the >original Hatherleigh "flying cross" sighting and other pre- dawn >sightings like it were almost certainly Venus. Thanks Martin. I have moved the Hatherleigh 'flying cross' to the special page as noted, and derated it in the database. I noted several of the sources that have it as anomalous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: List's Excellance - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 07:47:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 10:00:35 -0400 Subject: Re: List's Excellance - Lehmberg >From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:44:49 +0200 >Subject: List's Excellance <snip> >When you don't live in the United States you perceive Americans >as fat people with no brains eating burgers all day. >This List has certainly given me different insights Oh, you must be reading the Canadians and Brits... we Americans _are_ fat, brainless, all day burger-eaters... but we can bomb you into the stone-age if you refuse to let us corrupt your governments, implode your sensibilities, or degrade the qualities of your life. Top that! [Note to self: Evaluate New Zealand for C-COE (Corporate Christian Outreach Effort)...]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 05:26:45 -1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 12:15:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Goldstein >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 11:29:48 +0100 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 02:05:54 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>[Four paragraphs of "tech-speculation"] >>Still, questions remain. >>[Five paragraphs of "tech-spec"] >Excellent - if a hard query can change a reflex response from >"Another one bites the dust" (your words) to "Let the Sunshine >In" then posing that query is worth while. >When we compare the record of frank analysis & up-front >presentation (of Mars anomalies) of:- >Joseph P Skipper >http://tinyurl.com/4j9s3 >A.C. Clarke >http://www.perceptions.couk.com/magic3.html >Tom Van Flandern >http://tinyurl.com/3udmr >with the recent history of NASA/JPL (from say, Viking onwards), >who comes off worst? Ray, As much as I respect A.C. Clarke as an author I don't understand how he or you think these images may be resemble life forms without consulting with the geologists who may have a better sense of what they actually are. I feel Van Flandern and Skipper are letting their imaginations run away with them. Are you sure they are not smoking perception enhancing drugs? Even un-stoned I can look up at cumulous clouds and form faces out of cloud forms that only barely resemble faces in the most vague manner. This sounds like the same foolishness George Filer engages in, trying to make natural obscure formations look like aliens created them. Didn't the foolishness of Richard 'Hoagie' Hoagland teach you folks anything?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Dr. Lynne Kitei's The Phoenix Lights From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:35:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 12:18:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Dr. Lynne Kitei's The Phoenix Lights >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 07:28:11 -0500 >Subject: Dr. Lynne Kitei's The Phoenix Lights >Dr. Lynne Kitei And The "The Phoenix Lights" >by Alfred Lehmberg >www.AlienView.net >I hope Dr. Kitei has adequate security... >As for me, I'm getting ready to flex my ufological bungee cords >once again! Cleats and hardware are metaphorically magnafluxed, >cords are checked and treated, and rip-stop anklers are snuggly >fitted around my demure jumper's mukluks... preflight is >complete. All the required equipment necessary to live to fight >another day... prepared for action! Let's, really, roll! >Dr. Lynne Kitei is an internationally-acclaimed physician and >health educator, a leading professional in the "cutting-edge >era" of early disease detection and prevention, and is Chief >Clinical Consultant at the (world-renowned!) Arizona Heart >Institute's Imaging/Prevention/Wellness Center in Phoenix, >Arizona. Additionally, Dr. Kitei has appeared as the resident >health reporter for the NBC TV affiliates in Philadelphia, PA... >and in Phoenix, Arizona, as medical consultant for KPHO TV News >n that city... and has been featured on USA Cable, FOX TV News >...she can be forgiven for that, I suppose...), and MSNBC. Dr. >Kitei also wrote and appeared, all over the world, in more than >a hundred informational health segments on television. >Oh... and yes... while a genuine skeptic and in no way 'looking' >for them at the start, she has seen more than a few... UFOs. >That's right. >On the night of March 13, 1997 in Phoenix, Arizona, a plethora >of sober persons (numbered in the thousands!) were outside, >anyway, to cage a look at the (still very mysterious) Hale-Bopp >comet... then in the evening sky. An infamous comet was not the >only thing in the firmament that night! This other thing was >also witnessed by many thousands. >Truth. Lynne Kitei was one of those thousands. Actually, what you refer to as seen by thousands (quite possibly true; large number anyway) was the 8:30 PM triangle flyover. Bu, so far as I know, (and I spoke with her for many hours) she did not see that. She did see the "phoenix lights" that occurred at 10 PM plus or minus minutes. My web site has an analysis of the video from that sighting. >What she saw and photographed was to change her life completely, >cause her to reassess her entire worldview, and then bravely >risk a substantial reputation to make some kind of sense of what >she and many, many others had witnessed on that fateful night. >She remains glad, I think, that she's buckled up for the ride. >She was naturally very curious, right off the bat, about this... >huge occurrence! When she made casual inquires, altogether >rational inquires I add, she was rebuffed, mildly ridiculed, >lied to, made the butt of insulting sarcasm, and otherwise >assiduously stonewalled! Kitei is a scientist you see, and a >suspect "status quo" was ill served when it tried to shine her >on in the beginning of the quest imposed upon her.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: List's Excellance - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 11:41:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 12:27:06 -0400 Subject: Re: List's Excellance - Maccabee >From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:44:49 +0200 >Subject: List's Excellance >I must say that this List is really impressive. I personally >think the UFO investigators here are the most thorough and >dedicated lot around. >Everything, and I mean everything, is dissected to the last >micro-millimeter. I don't think any other field of investigation >is so well studied with so little reward. >This has to indicate that the phenomena has a lot of >credibility. >When you don't live in the United States you perceive Americans >as fat people with no brains eating burgers all day.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 9 Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:59:32 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 15:43:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms - Sparks >From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:00:09 +0100 >Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:36:04 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imprecise Use Of Clinical Terms >>I challenge you to come up with a single term >>for "normal full motor inhibition during REM dream sleep" now >>that cataplexy has been taken from that definitional role. >It's called REM atonia.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 Lloyd Pye's 'Star Child'? From: Aaron LeClair <saucer.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:38:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:07:30 -0400 Subject: Lloyd Pye's 'Star Child'? Anyone know the latest on this starchild skull? A while back on
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Aztec 8th Annual UFO Symposium - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <ahebert.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:11:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:04:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Aztec 8th Annual UFO Symposium - Hebert >Source: The Daily Times - Farmington, New Mexico >http://tinyurl.com/4b3yc >Apr 3, 2005 >ETs, UFOs and conspiracies highlight Saturday talk at 8th annual >UFO Symposium By Debra Mayeux/The Daily Times <snip> >It was Howe's theory that a "foreign disc" carrying "humanoids" >was shot down in July 1947 near Roswell. It was brought down >with "20 millimeter canon fire," after the U.S. Army Air Force >received orders to fire upon all hostile "foreign weapons >systems" or UFOs. >Aztec was a little different. >Howe said an unidentified military agent told her: "We did not >shoot that one down." >Instead the spaceship - a pewter, circular-shaped craft - flew >into the path of radar beam. It was brought down in Hart Canyon >and discovered by some oil field workers responding to a well >fire in the area. >"There were two badly charred bodies, four feet in height" on >the craft. The bodies were later described by the military as >"dead non-human beings," Howe said. "Unidentified military agent"? How do we know he ever existed or should be considered a source of anything? Alien technology that can endure the harsh conditions of space yet be brought down by a mere "radar beam"? Get real. Enough with the April Fool's jokes (aka disinformation)! My sides are splitting already! ROFLMAO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 04-08-05 Visit To Alleged 'Alien Autopsy' Crash From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:43:31 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:11:29 -0400 Subject: 04-08-05 Visit To Alleged 'Alien Autopsy' Crash Report On Visit to Alleged Alien Autopsy Crash Site 04-08-05 Greetings to Fellow Listarians: I had the great pleasure of meeting Dr. David Rudiak for several days this week. It was an enjoyable visit and we caught up on all the gossip (UFO politics) and compared research ideas and personal theories. Although my health isn't the best at this time, I did accompany him to the alleged crash site, as located by Ed Gehrman. While at the site we received information regarding new witnesses, which we will be addressing during the summer. David listened to my preliminary findings and proceeded to conduct his own survey of the area. He will notify the List in his own time, I'm sure, of his independent thoughts regarding his visitation of the site. Due to record-breaking rain in this area the site has changed topically since last year, but is still very recognizable. Fresh samples and new, professional quality, digitial photographs of the area were taken during the site visit. Ed will be visiting next month and I'm sure a trip to the site will be planned, as well as formulation of the new information
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 Hidden Passageways In Bryant's 'Bleak House' From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:53:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:18:03 -0400 Subject: Hidden Passageways In Bryant's 'Bleak House' Seeking Out Some Hidden Passageways In Bryant's 'Bleak House' By Larry W. Bryant Readers in the market for a classic case study in how a (typical?) federal agency reacts administratively to a citizen's persistent challenge to the agency's impingement upon First Amendment rights need look no farther than the recent case of Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. Lackland's March 28, 2005, response to my freedom-of-information request of Dec. 16, 2004, leaves no doubt that my series of whistleblower-solicitation ads sent during the past few years to such "commercial enterprise" newspapers as the Lackland AFB "Talespinner" has touched a deep nerve of resistance/anxiety within the USAF's public-affairs and judge-advocate circles. That response rounds out my pursuit of an administrative remedy to Lackland's blatant abuse of authority in rejecting my two ad submissions "Blow the Whistle on Bush's 'Gulf of Persia' Resolution!" and "Blow the Whistle on Depleted-Uranium Contamination in Iraqnam!" (You'll recall that the former ad remains the focus of my First Amendment lawsuit of Bryant v. Rumsfeld, et al., filed in June 2004 in U. S. District Court for the District of Columbia - see: http://www.markskatz.com/militarycases.htm which now has reached the discovery stage as the Army's "Pentagram" newspaper staff tries to defend its censorship of the ad.) Lackland's package of "responsive records" consists mostly of various e-mail exchanged among me, the Lackland public affairs (PA) officer, her staff, the local judge advocate's office, the Hq-USAF public affairs office, and the USAF inspector-general system. Alas, the textual content of most of the internal-staff e-messages has been withheld from disclosure - on the alleged grounds that to so disclose "would reveal the deliberative process privilege of the Air Force and attorney work product information" (as per FOIA exemption No. (b)(5)). It remains to be seen, of course, whether any of that withheld information can be subpoenaed as part of my collateral case of Bryant v. Rumsfeld, et al. II (filed in January 2005 - see: http://www.markskatz.com/complaintlwb2005.pdf ), on the grounds that the court should prevent a First Amendment violator from using any special privilege to shield herself from accountability. You'll recall that the "Rumsfeld II" case centers on the anti-political-ads provisions of the Defense Dept./Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine Corps's regulations governing content of ads submitted for publication in CE newspapers. In the case of Lackland's rejection, we see that the base PA chief, Lt. Col. Antoinette T. Kemper, relies not only on those provisions but also on just about anything else in the base's anti-free-speech toolbox - e.g.: (1) (Re: "the 'Gulf of Persia' Resolution"): "This is in response to your request received via our website. First of all, thanks for your interest in advertising in the Lackland Talespinner. However, I cannot publish this in our classified ads. The base newspaper is our commander's primary internal information product to keep the base community informed about command policies, issues and events. Since the primary audience is comprised of servicemembers, it would be contrary to good order and discipline to publish statements against our Commander in Chief." (Dec. 13, 2004) (2) (Re: Depleted-uranium contamination): "Respectfully suggest you find a more suitable media outlet than a base newspaper for your platforms. There are many commercial media publications who would run your ads for an appropriate fee." (Dec. 14, 2004); and: "First of all, your proposed text isn't a classified ad. More relevant, however, is the subject matter. Air Force newspapers support Air Force command leadership communication requirements. I'm responsible for ensuring content is objective and communicates command priorities. Editorial material cannot imply criticism of other government agencies nor advocate political positions. This is directly in accordance with Air Force policy and instructions." (Dec. 14, 2004) LWB Note: while she's at it, why doesn't Kemper try, single-handedly, to reinstate the Sedition Act of 1798? If, in the package of "responsive records," there be anything near a "smoking gun" revelation (or a hidden passageway to/from officialdom's mind-set), it has to be the e-message sent Dec. 13, 2004, by one Wayne Bryant, a subordinate of Kemper's. He addresses it to the "Talespinner's" commercial printer, stating: "Sylvia - Just in case you get this ad [re the "'Gulf of Persia' Resolution"]. Please don't run it. We're getting a reading from the Legal folks and will respond directly to him [i.e., to Larry W. Bryant] concerning him not being able to run the ad. Thanks in advance." To which, on Dec. 21, Sylvia replied: "Will be on the lookout. Thank you - SB." Thus has the Lackland hierarchy, in a behind-the-scenes collusion with its contract printer, preempted that printer's sole authority to pass judgment on a proposed ad's content. And the USAF inspector general merely winks as the PA community continues to violate its own regulatory standards. Coming, so ironically as it does, from a public affairs officer, Kemper's unabashed "viewpoint discrimination" (a cardinal sin in First Amendment jurisprudence) puts the Air Force in both a tenuous and an embarrassing position. It will fail judicial scrutiny, and it even may leave an indelible mark upon the U. S. military establishment's integrity and credibility. When Kemper's ad-rejection rationale arrives in court, the judge probably will take his cue from a key lesson in First Amendment history, as pointed out by eminent First Amendment litigator Floyd Abrams in his 2005 memoir "Speaking Freely: Trials of the First Amendment": "...there always seemed to be plausible-sounding reasons to stop publication of a controversial work or to punish it when it occurred."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 CI: Emphatically Still A Face From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:31:02 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:19:39 -0400 Subject: CI: Emphatically Still A Face Cydonian Imperative 4-10-05 Emphatically Still a Face by Mac Tonnies See: http://cydonianimperative.blogspot.com NASA's Mars Odyssey craft has returned an impressive new photo of the Face on Mars. The short of it: It's still a face. http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/V10598012.html This image lobs a challenge into the laps of critics who maintain the Face is merely an un-face-like mesa. Taken with the THEMIS camera in visible-light, the new snapshot of the Cydonia Mensae region (which includes a portion of the controversial D&M Pyramid in the lower-left) shows a scattering of amorphic mesas and knobs in the Face's vicinity, none of which approximate the Face's defining symmetry and anthropomorphism. In recent years, debunkers have seized on high-resolution close- ups of the Face to demonstrate the feature's age-ravaged surface, implying the Face is a natural formation. This tactic completely neglects the hypothesis that the Face, if artificial, was constructed perhaps hundreds of thousands of years ago, in which case some degree of erosion is inevitable. In return, advocates of the Artificiality Hypothesis have pointed to known artificial ruins on Earth (including the Pyramids and Sphinx) which, seen sufficiently close-up, can look tantalizingly natural. By providing a contextual view of the controversial "Martian Sphinx," the THEMIS image effectively "removes" superficial damage, underscoring the formation's anomalous humanoid appearance. The conclusion is quite plain: The Face, whatever its origin, is very much face-like, despite the repeated "scotchings" doled out by the mainstream skeptical establishment. [image] The "nostril" in this early image is a transmission error. But better photos show an actual candidate nostril where one belongs if the Face is an anthropomorphic sculpture. A popular debunking myth is that an early Viking image of the Face shows a dot thought by "Face enthusiasts" to be a nostril- like surface feature. While digital imaging processors intrigued by the Face knew perfectly well that the so-called "nostril" was simply a data transmission error, the prospect of an anthropomorphic "nose" appeared to be vindicated in 1998, when the Mars Global Surveyor took its first picture of the Face - there actually is a nostril-like "pit" on the Face. More interestingly, it coincides with the Viking transmission error, suggesting the "will to believe" in a facial likeness is based in morphological reality. In the new image, the candidate "nostril" on the Face's western half can be seen, along with further detail in keeping with the Artificiality Hypothesis. -end- Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 List's Excellence [was: List's Excellance] From: Erik Landahl <landahl1.nul> Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:13:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:32:20 -0400 Subject: List's Excellence [was: List's Excellance] >From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:44:49 +0200 >Subject: List's Excellance >I must say that this List is really impressive. I personally >think the UFO investigators here are the most thorough and >dedicated lot around. >Everything, and I mean everything, is dissected to the last >micro-millimeter. I don't think any other field of investigation >is so well studied with so little reward. >This has to indicate that the phenomena has a lot of >credibility. >When you don't live in the United States you perceive Americans >as fat people with no brains eating burgers all day. <snip> Dear Listerions, Certainly, for a plethora of reasons, this may be the most excellent UFO List between the asteroid belt and Sol. Mr. Woolf's compliment is well-deserved. However, since this List is so excellent, please allow me to make a brief and pertinent avouchment. >Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:44:49 +0200 >Subject: List's _Excellance_ The above variant spelling, "excellance," comes from the "No Child Left Behind Dictionary," G.W. Bush, ed. This dictionary and the many spelling variants contained within are not yet widely accepted by the English-speaking peoples of this planet, though they are rapidly gaining currency in the United States. The spelling agreed upon by a consensus of well-respected dictionaries remains "excellence."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:06:34 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:29:34 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico - Smith >From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:43:25 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 12:20:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Re: UFO 'Fleets' Videoed Over Mexico >>Although the video seems interesting, the problem with it is >>that I can do nothing to confirm or deny video or photos like >>this. If one had taken stereo video/photos we might be able to >>understand the distance better, if we had the winds data a >>various altutudes then we could rule out balloons. It certainly >>looks like a flock of tied together balloons. >>If a spectrometer had been used to view the objects we might >>glean something of what they are made of via the reflected light >>or emitted light. A duplication of the event using mylar or >>white balloons tied together may help assess it. >As an alternative to acquiring the information you request... as >indeed this kind of data are often unavailable after the fact, I >suggest looking at known videos of similar nature and discernign >what similarities actually exist. >I submit the following: >http://www.trisomy18angel.com/angelday.htm >Click on the Video link to see the short video. The relavent >part is about 40 seconds into the video. Short but startlingly >similar to the flotilla video. >While I cannot say this is the same thing, the similarities are
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: The Kinross Incident - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 06:10:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:34:37 -0400 Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident - Hatch >From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 05:51:42 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:03:50 -0700 >>Subject: Re: The Kinross Incident <snip> >>>>>Pieces of the jet were found several months later. >>>>Pieces of the jet found later? That slipped past me somehow, >>>>and its important. >>>>Can you verify this? Links or whatever? >>>Jerry Clark sent me a clipping from years later. It said that >>>the wreckage recovered could be from one of three aircraft, >>>including the Kinross interceptor. >>>No more information is available. >>>Brad agrees that we both saw the same news article which I have >>>temporarily misplaced. Jerry mentioned the new report in his >>>encyclopedia. <snip> >You should check with Dale Goudie and Jim Klotz of CUFON in >Seattle. They once showed me the extensive documents they >obtained on the Kinross search and rescue. I don't believe >anyone has ever claimed that plane wreckage was recovered from >that particular aircraft. Thanks Don:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:40:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission Since it was brought up again on SDI, Last night, and Mr. Ledger is doing some research on it, may I ask a few questions of the gentleman? 1) From the witness statement, "...That same evening, I sat at the typewriter and wrote out everything, time, date, place, and mission, plus all the names I could remember of who were there with all the facts concerning the incident, and asked Jim Baker to read it and sign it. He read it and signed it on condition that I would give him a copy of the report. I went to the copier, and made six complete copies of the report and gave Jim one of them. .... I asked him (Jim Baker) if he still had his report hidden away and he told me he had actually burned his copy, but had given a copy to another friend from West Virginia who wanted it." Okay, here we have a statement that indicates the signed copy still exists. Why can't he make it public? If he isn't interested in that, then why doesn't he at least check to see what the times are so a detailed scouring of the NASA imagery/audio data can occur? 2) From his statement: ".....The object started a slow move from screen left to screen right. The camera on the left front of the Rover followed the object as it moved screen right. Soon it was apparent that it actually wasn't moving screen right, but was circling the Rover. The Rover has two mounted cameras on it. One camera was mounted on the left front and one on the right rear. As the object came into view of the right rear, that camera picked up the object and continued tracking it as it circled, very slowly around the Rover. It finally came to the point where the right rear camera could no longer follow it, so the left front camera picked up the image again and followed it to where it was once more above where the Astronauts were in Hadley's Rille." If he has such a statement as mentioned in #1 to refresh his memory, can he explain why he thought there were TWO video cameras on the Moon for that mission instead of only 1. (there is no place to put another video camera on the rover!). No second video camera exists in any mission on the surface! 3) Have you or anyone on the List gotten the DVD of the Apollo 15 mission and viewed _all_ the footage when they were at Hadley's Rille to see what the witness _might_ be talking about? 4) From his statement: "Astronauts were in Hadley's Rille. They couldn't be seen because they were over the edge, down in the Rille itself. The Lunar Rover was about thirty, maybe forty or more yards from the edge, and had the left front camera on the spot where the Astronauts had disappeared. " Although the rover is 30-40 yards from the edge, I wonder how he knows they were "in Hadley's Rille" and "over the edge". See: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/expmoon/Apollo15/A15_Lsite.Traverse.gif I cannot see or find where they tried to go "over the edge". The video I can find does not show this happening. They "disappear" by moving behind the camera field of view. I do find where one astronaut falls at 165:32:01 but not down the Rille. 5) Regarding the "crypto" room, I would like to know if Oberg heard of such a room. Although I would hope data sent and received by NASA to spacecraft was/is encoded to prevent Soviets and others from damaging spacecraft, I would think this would be sent to MCC and likely the encoders in some locked/protected black box nearby, not in a conference room. There is a chance of images being sent over a crypto-"fax" (in that room) to NASA by other agencies to help identify craft. I can't see why they would "put them up on the wall", unless they were clearly not anything important. Common sense shows you have to lock things up after you look at them. What kind of security system leaves them on the wall???? Another possible thing the room was used for was high level strategic planning. To assure bugs weren't planted, they need a "secured" room. The same room could be used for contract decision making, possible military interaction (using NASA equipment for military apps). Why wouldn't the UFOs on the wall just be advanced concepts/artist renderings/model photos? Given the state of relations with the Soviets, security made sense. Also, it is implied by Mr. Ledger that the ability for the Mars rovers to outlast their design life was possibly due to alien intervention. I think it is too extreme to presume this since dust devils occur on Mars (we KNOW there are dust storms, so the the atmosphere CAN be turbulent) and are the most reasonable explanation for the cleaning of the solar arrays. It was also implied during the program that it was "mysterious" why we did not go back to the Moon or why we stopped. It is in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:48:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:41:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations - Dickenson >From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 05:26:45 -1000 >Subject: Re: Mars Desert Excavations >>http://tinyurl.com/4j9s3 >>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/magic3.html >>http://tinyurl.com/3udmr >I feel Van Flandern and Skipper are letting their imaginations >run away with them <snip> >Ray, perhaps you need to replace your lenses of perception as >they seem to have cataracts. Can't provoke me Josh, lots of patience here. In ten/fifty years it'll all be known but the mil/science community is gagged att and it's all very embarrassing for them, not being allowed to comment on the most significant data we've _ever_ received. The only people who dare speak truthfully are those whose careers aren't totally controlled by the establishment - and in those I prefer to trust. Cheers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Aztec 8th Annual UFO Symposium - Aldrich From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:44:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:44:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Aztec 8th Annual UFO Symposium - Aldrich >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 17:11:23 -0500 >Subject: Re: Aztec 8th Annual UFO Symposium >>Source: The Daily Times - Farmington, New Mexico >>http://tinyurl.com/4b3yc >>Apr 3, 2005 >>ETs, UFOs and conspiracies highlight Saturday talk at 8th annual >>UFO Symposium By Debra Mayeux/The Daily Times ><snip> >>It was Howe's theory that a "foreign disc" carrying "humanoids" >>was shot down in July 1947 near Roswell. It was brought down >>with "20 millimeter canon fire," after the U.S. Army Air Force >>received orders to fire upon all hostile "foreign weapons >>systems" or UFOs. >>Aztec was a little different. >>Howe said an unidentified military agent told her: "We did not >>shoot that one down." >>Instead the spaceship - a pewter, circular-shaped craft - flew >>into the path of radar beam. It was brought down in Hart Canyon >>and discovered by some oil field workers responding to a well >>fire in the area. >>"There were two badly charred bodies, four feet in height" on >>the craft. The bodies were later described by the military as >>"dead non-human beings," Howe said. >"Unidentified military agent"? How do we know he ever existed or >should be considered a source of anything? Alien technology that >can endure the harsh conditions of space yet be brought down by >a mere "radar beam"? Get real. >Enough with the April Fool's jokes (aka disinformation)! My >sides are splitting already! <ROFLMAO> Beings who travel across the galaxy with all the hazards of space are brought down by 20 mikemike and a radar beam. If I aim a squirt gun at a 747, I guess it will fall out of the sky. Amy, you are complete correct, everyday is April Fool's Day in Ufoland. There is a hunger this type of thing. The Aztec Library has found how to profit from it. They usually do bring one or two more speakers who do not believe cows do jump over the moon. The main fare is UFO crashes and conspiracy theories... let me have
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 FOIA & The MOD From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:29:50 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:45:06 -0400 Subject: FOIA & The MOD Information about UFOs, released under the UK's Freedom of Information Act, can now be accessed at a new online 'reading room'. Click on the link below and go through the monthly logs: http://www.mod.uk/publications/foi/rr/ This is a separate arrangement from the Publication Scheme, under which a number of UFO documents (including the file on the Rendlesham Forest incident and the final report of the Flying Saucer Working Party) have already been released. For this latter information, click on the hyperlink below and search on the keyword 'ufo': http://www.foi.mod.uk/search.asp
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 OVNI 'Skywriting'? From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:29:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:47:44 -0400 Subject: OVNI 'Skywriting'? Hello All, I'm just going to put this out there because I think I have to. However, I will not debate the value or validity of the material. I firmly believe this is _strong_ evidence for UFOs being _intelligently_ guided and makes a strong case for the reality the abductees have testifying about for decades. See for yourself: http://www.virtuallystrange.com/aic/formation.html Ladies and gents, you are cordially invited to make of this what you will. As I said, I consider it compelling evidence. I am dead certain others will consider it the product of a fevered imagination. I don't care. It is what it is, and it speaks for itself. Like it or not, this very strong and will prove difficult to blow-off as mere coincidence or misperception. Although again, I have no doubt that many will try their best to dismiss it as quickly and expeditiously as humanly possible. The most 'threatening' material always is. Stuff this pure has a way of getting trampled underfoot and forgotten at warp speed. It's okay. Not my loss. And I know that this material won't be lost on some of you. Have fun with this kiddies... that is, if it doesn't give you genuine pause. I did the right thing and what I felt had to do. I told you. I'm outta here and back to lurking.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 10 Re: Hidden Passageways In Bryant's 'Bleak House' - From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:35:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:49:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Hidden Passageways In Bryant's 'Bleak House' - >From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:53:48 -0500 >Subject: Hidden Passageways In Bryant's 'Bleak House' >Seeking Out Some Hidden Passageways In Bryant's 'Bleak House' >By Larry W. Bryant <snip> >Lackland's March 28, 2005, response to my freedom-of-information >request of Dec. 16, 2004, leaves no doubt that my series of >whistleblower-solicitation ads sent during the past few years to >such "commercial enterprise" newspapers as the Lackland AFB >"Talespinner" has touched a deep nerve of resistance/anxiety >within the USAF's public-affairs and judge-advocate circles. Larry, The idea of whistleblower solicitation ads is, in my view, one of the very best. When I was a member of the American armed forces, the military papers were far from the only ones read by members. Both local civilian papers for the base area, and national papers like the NY Times were being read too. Why _not_ try some whistleblower solicitation ads in commercial papers with non-military ties? A good listing of all classes of newspapers can be had here: http://newslink.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Lloyd Pye's 'Star Child'? - Pye From: Lloyd Pye <lloydpye.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 17:54:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:37:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Lloyd Pye's 'Star Child'? - Pye >From: Aaron LeClair <saucer.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:38:49 -0400 >Subject: Lloyd Pye's 'Star Child'? >Anyone know the latest on this starchild skull? A while back on >the List there was a post from Lloyd, I think, on some new tests >that were to be done. >I checked the Starchild site and his homepage but all the info. >there is old, I think. You're right, Aaron. I'm working on getting around to an update, but there's not much to report. The remainder of the testing has been funded, but the transfer of the said funds was a bit slow (by nearly a month!). Meanwhile, I have moved back to the States to write a book about it while the last chapter of the book is written in the laboratories of England.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Science's Doomsday Team Vs. The Asteroids From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:54:55 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:44:05 -0400 Subject: Science's Doomsday Team Vs. The Asteroids Source The Washington Post http://tinyurl.com/4hq2e April 9, 2005 Science's Doomsday Team vs. the Asteroids By Guy Gugliotta Washington Post Staff Writer Page A01 Astronomer David Tholen spotted it last year in the early evening of June 19, using the University of Arizona's Bok telescope. It was a new "near-Earth object," a fugitive asteroid wandering through space to pass close to Earth. Tholen's team took three pictures that night and three the next night, but storm clouds and the moon blocked further observations. They reported their fixes to the Minor Planet Center in Cambridge, Mass., and moved on. Six months later, Tholen's object was spotted again in Australia as asteroid "2004 MN4." In the space of five days straddling Christmas, startled astronomers refined their calculations as the probability of the 1,000-foot-wide stone missile hitting Earth rose from one chance in 170 to one in 38. They had never measured anything as potentially dangerous to Earth. Impact would come on Friday the 13th in April 2029. The holidays and the tsunami in South Asia pushed 2004 MN4 out of the news, and in the meantime additional observations showed that the asteroid would miss, but only by 15,000 to 25,000 miles - about one-tenth the distance to the moon. Asteroid 2004 MN4 was no false alarm. Instead, it has provided the world with the best evidence yet that a catastrophic encounter with a rogue visitor from space is not only possible but probably inevitable. It also demonstrated the tenacity of the small band of professionals and amateurs who track potential impact asteroids, and highlighted the shortcomings of an international system that pays scant attention to their work. "I used to say the total number of people interested in this was no more than one shift at a McDonald's restaurant," said David Morrison, an astronomer at NASA's Ames Research Center and a student of near-Earth objects for nearly three decades. "Now it's maybe two shifts." Awareness of the apocalyptic potential of near-Earth objects has been slow to develop. It took years for Nobel laureate Luis Alvarez and his son Walter to win acceptance for their 1980 research showing that a near-Earth object impact quite likely caused the extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. "The human brain wouldn't grasp reality until it had somewhat more direct evidence," said Colorado-based planetary scientist Clark R. Chapman of the Southwest Research Institute, another longtime expert on near-Earth objects. "Alvarez provided that." The vast majority of near-Earth objects are asteroids - huge rocks or chunks of iron that travel around the sun in eccentric orbits that cross Earth's path periodically. The rest are comets - ancient piles of dust, stones and ice that come in from the edges of the solar system. "The good news is that comets represent 1 percent of the danger," said Donald K. Yeomans, who manages NASA's Near-Earth Object Program at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. "The bad news is that should we find one, there's not a lot we can do about it... We detect them only nine months from impact." Asteroids, by contrast, generally offer decades or even centuries of warning - unless they are too small to detect, in which case there is no warning at all. But today's technology enables astronomers to get a fix on any asteroid capable of causing a global "extinction event" - six miles in diameter or bigger. Asteroid 2004 MN4 is a "regional" hazard - big enough to flatten Texas or a couple of European countries with an impact equivalent to 10,000 megatons of dynamite - more than all the nuclear weapons in the world. Even though it will be a near miss in 2029, that will not be the last word. "You don't know what the gravitational effect of the Earth will be," said Brian G. Marsden, who oversees the hunt for near-Earth objects as director of the Minor Planet Center at the Harvard- Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. "In 2029, the [close encounter with] Earth will increase the size of the orbit, and the object could get into a resonance with the Earth," he added. "You could get orbit matchups every five years or nine years, or something in between." In fact, 2004 MN4 could come close again in 2034, 2035, 2036, 2037, 2038 or later. So, what can be done? The first thought, dramatically depicted in the 1998 movies "Deep Impact" and "Armageddon," is to nuke the intruder into small pieces so it will burn up in Earth's atmosphere. Many scientists say, however, that this is unacceptably sloppy - - instead of obliterating the target, the bomb could break the asteroid into large radioactive chunks capable of transforming huge stretches of Earth into wasteland. Or the explosion could deflect but not destroy the asteroid, putting it on a future collision course. A nuclear strategy would also forever require a stockpile of doomsday weapons. "The cure's worse than the disease," said former Apollo astronaut Russell L. "Rusty" Schweickart. He is a board member of the B612 Foundation, a group of experts promoting a space mission by 2015 to send a "tugboat" spacecraft to a near-Earth object, dock with it and gently alter its speed enough to change its orbit - to show that it can be done. (B612 is the name of the asteroid home of "The Little Prince," in the Antoine de Saint-Exupery story.) "You want to delay or speed up the asteroid a little," said Berlin-based Alan Harris, chairman of the European Space Agency's Near-Earth Object Mission Advisory Panel. "What kind of surface do you have: Is it rocky? Dusty? Rubbly? How much force can I apply? I don't want to break it up - unless I really break it up." B612 has a design but little money, while ESA has spent only a nominal amount to study the feasibility of a reconnaissance mission to an asteroid. NASA, at $4 million a year, is currently the big spender for near-Earth object research. With this, NASA maintains a database at JPL to plot and record orbits for all known near-Earth objects, and contributes money to the Minor Planet Center and to sky surveys underway at telescopes in Arizona, California, Hawaii, New Mexico and Australia. The money was authorized after a push from Congress led by Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a conservative, and former House Science Committee chairman George E. Brown Jr. (D-Calif.), known as one of Congress's most liberal members before his death in 1999. "I have a vision of something terrible happening, and I feel compelled to see that it doesn't happen," Rohrabacher said. NASA's task - which Congress imposed in 1998 - is to find 90 percent of the estimated 1,100 near-Earth objects that are one kilometer (0.6 miles) or greater in diameter by 2008. As of mid- March, JPL's database included 762 of these. On March 1, Rohrabacher introduced the George E. Brown Jr. Near- Earth Object Survey Act, mandating $40 million for a two-year start-up to survey every object 100 meters (328 feet) across or larger, of which there may be 300,000. To date, Marsden has registered 3,265 near-Earth objects of all sizes. Tholen, of the University of Hawaii, is a frequent contributor in the search for threatening objects. He specializes in "Atens," a subspecies that orbit mostly between the Earth and the sun and are difficult to see in the glare of the sun. To spot Atens, astronomers must work at dawn or dusk. Tholen's team, on a field trip to the University of Arizona's Steward Observatory, had booked an hour on the evenings of June 19, 20, 23 and 24, 2004. They found a new Aten on the first evening and saw it again on the second evening. It was about 106 million miles away. The team recorded the sightings and sent them electronically to Marsden, who published the object's position, which he named 2004 MN4 in accordance with a complicated coding system based on the date of discovery. Tholen waited for another opportunity, but rain clouds cloaked the sky. When the storm passed, the moon was squatting right where the team wanted to look. For the next six months, nobody looked for it. Then, on Dec. 18, astronomer Gordon Garradd, working at the Siding Springs telescope in Coonabarabran, Australia, 240 miles northwest of Sydney, spotted what he thought was a new near- Earth object, "brightly lit and traveling fast," he recalled. He took four images in his first set, then followed up with two more sets. Marsden's team put Garradd's data on the center's Web page, a signal for astronomers to get more fixes. On Dec. 20, JPL produced its solution. Chance of impact was one in 2,500 - nothing to get excited about. "Usually the probability goes down with more observations," Marsden said. Not this time. On Dec. 23, the risk rose to one in 270, and rose steadily over Christmas and beyond. "We'd never had anything this big come this close, and we'd never predicted anything like it," Marsden said. "It was quite fantastic." The asteroid was 9 million miles away - about as close as it would get this trip. By Dec. 26, the impact probability had risen to one chance in 38. What the plotters needed was a "precovery," an overlooked observation from before Tholen's initial June fixes to yield a more precise orbital solution. In Tucson, astronomers at the Spacewatch Project, at the University of Arizona's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, started searching their archive. Spacewatch has been surveying the solar system for 20 years, and precovery is a specialty. "We store [our images] on DVDs," Spacewatch leader Robert S. McMillan said. "If there's something that wasn't automatically sorted by our software, we can usually find it - if we were looking in the right place at the right time." They were. On Dec. 27, Spacewatch astronomers Jeffrey Larsen and Anne Descour found 2004 MN4 in a series of images taken March 15, more than three months before Tholen's sighting. They passed the word to JPL, which issued a news bulletin: "An Earth impact on 13 April 2029 can now be ruled out." Since then, astronomers have continued to observe 2004 MN4 whenever possible, but most of the time it is obscured. "It would be awfully nice to have information so we don't get
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:03:31 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:47:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Randle >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:34:10 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> Once again, for historical purpose, I leave in Stan's original quote that set off this latest discussion: >>>>>>How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >>>>>>sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >>>>>>cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking >>>>>>etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >>>>>>abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >>>>>>disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving or >>>>>>doing other non horizontal activities? <snip> >>I will note that in case 039 in Bullard's "The UFO Abductions: >>The Measure of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases," >>that Egidio Silva reported that he had gone outside because his >>dog was barking, a powerful light was shown down on him and >>he felt paralyzed. Not the best example, for sure, but one that fits, >>generally, the conditions of waking paralysis. >This is paralysis by ray beam. There are many such cases in the >UFO literature. Why pick this one out? Just because for some >reason it made it into Bullard's catalogue? What about the many >dozens of others ray beam paralysis cases, all non-abductions >but merely CE II's? By the way where is the UFO in this Silva >case? Where is the "abduction"? Picked out for the simple reason that it was in Bullard's abduction catalog. Although loath to suggest it, why not look this up for yourself. See why Bullard included it and see where the abduction fit in. >>>What we need to see is evidence of some other kind of sleep >>>disorder or state that produces a kind of free flowing, >>>conscious, fantasy creation that tells a complete story like a >>>UFO abduction, with a start (the UFO abduction), a middle (being >>>brought onboard the UFO, having an exam or whatever), and an end >>>(being returned to earth). Dreams won't cut it. That's my point. >>Actually, in Bullard's report, there are a number of cases in which >>dreams are suggested as the original "memory" of the event. In >>case 194c, "Pamela Armstrong," it is reported that "In a dream the >>witness saw a bright egg-shaped and domed object land=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=A2=E2= =80=9A=C3=82=C2=A6.Two >>beings stepped out. She was unable to move. The beings took >>her inside." >She was already horizontal and "dreaming" here. This is a dream, >not a UFO case. Does every person's UFO dream count now as a >"UFO abduction"? Let me point out here that there is no universally accepted definition of abduction. The abduction is in the literature that accompanies the notation in Bullard's catalog selected because it is one of the nearly universally accepted abduction works. >Where is her return to her bedroom? I guess then she is still on >board the UFO to this day! I wonder how Bullard got her story if >she is still kidnapped? Oh that's right, you Kevin (or Bullard) >get to define any fragmentary dream as a full "UFO abduction" >just because you say so, and I don't get any say in the matter, >I am not permitted to criticize such a ludicrous (or sloppy) >methodology. Actually, the author of the study is allowed to define his terms, which is what Bullard did. If you have a quarrel with the methodology, I suggest you take it up with Bullard. >>Case 198c, page C-196, Mike Lewis, according to Bullard, "The >>witness had a recurring dream about an experience when he was >>five years old, and under hypnosis recalled an abduction." >He was horizontal and having a recurring dream. Where is the UFO? >He recalled an "abduction" under hypnosis, an "abduction" by >whom or by what? Talk about fragmentary! I am not about to retype everything into this record for your ease of research. I gave you the location of the information, and while what I typed in was fragmentary, it was only provided as additional information. And being horizonal or not has nothing to do with this case. You introduced dreams into this discussion, and here was an abduction that began with a dream. Later research, and hypnosis fleshed it out. >>Bullard reports in case 205, page C-204, Mary Sewall, "In a dream >>one night the witness found herself in an aircraft like 2 saucers rim >>to rim" >She is horizontal and dreaming! All UFO dreams now get to be >called "UFO abductions" apparently. This reminds me of UFO >debunkers who define all "UFO sightings" as "Unknowns" then >after setting up this easy strawman they readily knock it down >by declaring (falsely) that 95% are IFO's. Contaminate your >sample with bad data then declare how bad it is. Again, her orientation has nothing to do with this point. It was about dreams that lead to investigation into abduction. I have provided you with the reference and the page number for your ease at looking it up. No one here is suggesting that all dreams about UFOs leads to hypnotically recalled memories of abduction. The ones cited did, according to Bullard's research. However, if you wish to pursue this line of thought, that is, that all UFO dreams lead to a belief in abduction, I direct you to Mute Evidence and the section that deals with hypnotic regression conducted by Dr. Leo Sprinkle. It might prove interesting and seems to fit with this discussion. <snip> >>Roach was "captured," taken onto the craft and examined. She was >>returned to the house, where she "awakened" to the trauma of her >>kids screaming and the cat screaming. In the transcript it is implied >>that she awakened unable to move, something that she did say between >>the sessions. Of course, the paralysis only lasts briefly, and once the >>victim is able to move even the smallest amount, the paralysis is >>broken - at which time she was able to call the police. >So Pat Roach was dreaming and then "awakened." As I said above, >all UFO dreams apparently now get to be redefined as "UFO >abductions." There was no mention of Pat Roach dreaming at any point. This is your invention. No one suggested that all UFO dreams are now defined as abductions. Roach reported she was abducted and James Harder used hypnosis to gather more information from her. The case has been publicized in a number of UFO books including Coral Lorenzen's Abducted as Patty Price's Ordeal (pp 9 =E2=80=93 24) and Budd Hopkins' Missing Time (p 142), and in The Abduction Enigma which also includes copies of the transcripts, not to mention SAGA's UFO Report in which the case originally appeared and in Bullard's work. >>>And what are the statistics on UFO abductees being paralyzed, >>>what percentage were asleep when kidnapped, etc.? Are these the >>>only 2 cases out of several hundred or possibly 1,000+ UFO >>>abductions where you can cite evidence of some possible Sleep >>>Paralysis? How many cases of paralysis are associated with UFO's >>>or entities employing a device or ray beam that causes the >>>paralysis? >See below >You evaded my point about how many cases of UFO "ray beam" >paralysis there are, and sure enough as I had anticipated by >posing that question, you did go right ahead (see above) and use >a UFO ray beam paralysis case as some kind of evidence for a >false UFO abduction-caused-by-sleep-paralysis argument. My >question to you Kevin once again is: Are you going to fold in >all UFO ray beam paralysis CE II cases into your case for Sleep >Paralysis Causing UFO Abductions? If not why not? You did it >once already, despite my trying to anticipate that, so why not >make all such cases part of your evidence or proof? Absolutely not. I am going to suggest that we determine a way to separate the sleep paralysis cases from other types of abduction cases. My point, which is apparently so obscure that you fail to see it is that some abductions mimic sleep paralysis and instead of attempting to determine which is which, we begin to engage in word games. <snip> >>>Again, is that it? Just 2 cases out of possibly 1,000+ UFO >>>abductions? >>No, the point was that Stan said he knew of no cases in which >>sleep paralysis was a viable explanation. These two fit that >>bill. >No they didn't. They were cases of dreaming in a horizontal >state (in bed). They were not cases of people going about their >daily activities while vertical and suddenly entering a waking >dream-like state, with muscle paralysis (how would they continue >to stand then? even narcolepts fall down when this sleep attack >with paralysis occurs). There was more than one part to Stan's suggestion. Part one dealt with sleep paralysis and abductions. I provided two examples of what could be sleep paralysis as opposed to abductions. I was suggesting that we need to learn how to tell the two apart so that our data are not contaminated. >These are not cases where they dream or hallucinate a UFO >abduction scenario with a complete narrative account of UFO >kidnapping, being brought on board a UFO and taking a tour >of the inside or getting examined by aliens and then being >returned to earth still awake and vertical. They are asleep >and still dreaming when the dream ends! No one suggested they were. You introduced the dream element into a discussion of sleep paralysis and alien abduction. I might suggest that you look up the cases, (Osborne is in Missing Time (pp. 145 =E2=80=93 77, 182, 214, 219 =E2=80=93 20, 227 and 228). Then you can see how this evolved from a dream, or sleep paralysis into an abduction. >>However, in Ed Bullard's, The UFO Abductions: The Measure >>of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases, published by the >>Fund for UFO Research, Bullard noted in case 193e, "Lori >>Briggs," page C-181, "Dragged from sleep by a strange force Lori >>found herself paralyzed and unable to open her eyes." >She was horizontal, asleep in bed. No UFO at all until later >alleged abductions "under hypnosis." Was she also asleep in the >later "abductions"? Was she influenced by leading questions in >her hypnotic regressions? Again, her orientation with this case is irrelevant. I suggest that you take up the rest of the questions with Bullard and look up the citations he provides. >>Under hypnosis, she reported a humanoid four feet tall. In later >>abductions (193f) she describes a domed disk. I mention this so >>there is no confusion here. It isn't just about her awakening >>and believing she was paralyzed, but also about her memories, >>recovered under hypnosis, about the creatures and the craft. >>In case 193b, on page C-180, Emily Cronin and Jan Whitley, >>relate they were driving when both women became tired, so they ?>pulled off the road to sleep. Both women consciously remembered >Were they asleep or not?? Are we entitled to question here >whether they remember this correctly? Your criticism here is not with me, but with those reporting the case as an abduction. Please look up the information. >>seeing a light, heard a high-pitched whine and felt paralyzed by >>it. Under hypnosis, Emily remembered a tall humanoid. The >>witnesses concentrated on moving, and when successful, the >>paralysis ended and the light and the being were both gone. I >>might point out here that this sounds like classic sleep >>paralysis. In a later abduction, Emily reported a luminous >>"white bubble." >So I take it that only one woman dreamed of a UFO abduction but >the other did not. How big was the "light"? How far away was the >"light"? Duration? Angular size? Azimuth and elevation angle? >What color? How bright? This wouldn't pass the most elementary >screening for a UFO case. Yet now suddenly it takes on the >character of Exhibit A in the proof that UFO abductions could be >unusual sleep phenomena. Once again you adulterate your sample >with poor cases then attack them as poor or explainable in >conventional terms. The information you seek is with Bullard's report and the citations he provides. >>Let me describe what has become the typical abduction case. "An >>unsuspecting woman is in her room preparing to go to bed. She >>gets into bed, reads a while, turns off the light, and drifts >>off into a peaceful night's sleep. In the middle of the night >>she turns over and lies on her back. She is awakened by a light >>that seems to be glowing in her room. The light moves toward her >>bed and takes the shape of a small 'man' with a bald head and >>huge black eyes. She is terrified. She wants to run but she >>cannot move. She wants to scream but she cannot speak. The "man' >>moves toward her and looks deeply into her eyes. Suddenly she is >>calmer and she 'knows' that the 'man' is not going to hurt her." >>This could easily be a description of an episode of sleep >>paralysis. Oh yes, the quote is from page 49 of Secret Life by >>David Jacobs. >That's really clever Kevin in a smartass unscientific way, but >where are the statistics to back it up? You claim to be >something of an expert in UFO abductions having published a book >on it as co- author. You have blithely ignored Stan's original >point which I will quote here again from above: Is the acrimony necessary? Is it productive? What statistics are you after here. Jacob's statistics on what he considers the typical abduction? Please ask him for those statistics. >>>>>>How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >>>>>>sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >>>>>>cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking >>>>>>etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >>>>>>abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >>>>>>disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving or >>>>>>doing other non horizontal activities? >Is it or is not true that there are "literally hundreds of >cases" of UFO abductions "where the people aren't in bed, but >are driving, walking etc." or "doing other non horizontal >activities"?? What are the statistics here? You're the expert, >so show us some expertise. No one is arguing that point. What I attempted to point out here was that before we reject an explanation with a blanket observation, let's be aware of possible terrestrial explanations. In Stan's statement above, he makes the link between sleep paralysis and non horizontal, daylight activities=E2=80=A6 no one denies that there are many such abduction cases. However, that does not mean that some cases are not explained by sleep paralysis, nor does it mean that all such reports of daytime, non horizontal activities are proof of abduction. In fact, on PAX just last week a woman who claimed to have been abducted was given a lie detector test. Now, for those of us who paid attention, her abduction story sounded more like those told by contactees. The point here is that she failed the polygraph. There are some people who just invent their abductions. And no, I am not suggesting that all those who tell of abduction have invented the tale. I am suggesting that we have a range of solutions here that include sleep paralysis, vivid dreams that are converted into abductions and hoaxes. There are also some very interesting cases that seem to fit into none of these categories. >>So the point here has always been to refute Stan's suggestion >>that there are no abduction cases that can be explained by sleep >>paralysis. I presented two, which were apparently not enough, >>and have added to those. I had shown that dreams seem to be the >>precipitating factor in a few cases, which means the witness had >>some kind of dream that lead to further investigation usually >>under hypnosis that suggested an abduction. And to suggest that >>there is a phenomenon, cataplexy, that could lead to abduction >>that is a "daylight, non horizontal" activity. >You have not presented a single case of people in "daylight, non >horizontal" activity experiencing cataplexy paralysis with >dream-like hallucination of a UFO abduction! The examples you >gave were all of people asleep and dreaming like most people do >when they are asleep. The one case that came closest is also >most like the classic road hypnosis and hallucination sydrome, >where I would question whether they were awake or asleep. Absolutely true. My point was that there is a psychological phenomenon that might provide an explanation for these daylight encounters. We would be wise to investigate the terrestrial (and possible) explanations before we cavalierly dismiss the explanations. Stan suggested he knew of no cases in which sleep paralysis was a viable explanation which you found wanting=E2=80=A6 I supplied additional information and additional cases, suggesting sleep paralysis as a viable explanation, which you then determined didn't fit the criterion you invented here. I have provided the case cites and locations for the additional information you crave. I did not suggest that cataplexy explained any UFO abduction cases, only that it was a psychological phenomenon that was not completely understood and that could be the source of some of these non horizontal abductions. I suggested it was an area that we should research before we rejected it out of hand. My point, obviously too obscure, was to suggest that some cases can be explained by sleep paralysis. To suggest otherwise, is to ignore the similarity between some reports of abduction and reports of sleep paralysis. That was all I suggested here.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:22:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:22:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:03:31 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:34:10 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas ><snip> >Once again, for historical purpose, I leave in Stan's original >quote that set off this latest discussion: >How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking > >etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving >or by doing other non horizontal activities? ><snip> >>>I will note that in case 039 in Bullard's "The UFO Abductions: >>>The Measure of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases," >>>that Egidio Silva reported that he had gone outside because his >>>dog was barking, a powerful light was shown down on him and >>>he felt paralyzed. Not the best example, for sure, but one that >>>fits, generally, the conditions of waking paralysis. >>This is paralysis by ray beam. There are many such cases in the >>UFO literature. Why pick this one out? Just because for some >>reason it made it into Bullard's catalogue? What about the many >>dozens of others ray beam paralysis cases, all non-abductions >>but merely CE II's? By the way where is the UFO in this Silva >>case? Where is the "abduction"? >Picked out for the simple reason that it was in Bullard's >abduction catalog. Although loath to suggest it, why not look >this up for yourself. See why Bullard included it and see where >the abduction fit in. <snip> >Actually, the author of the study is allowed to define his >terms, which is what Bullard did. If you have a quarrel with the >methodology, I suggest you take it up with Bullard. <snip> >I am not about to retype everything into this record for your >ease of research. I gave you the location of the information, >and while what I typed in was fragmentary, it was only provided >as additional information. <snip> >However, if you wish to pursue this line of thought, that is, >that all UFO dreams lead to a belief in abduction, I direct you >to Mute Evidence and the section that deals with hypnotic >regression conducted by Dr. Leo Sprinkle. It might prove >interesting and seems to fit with this discussion. ><snip> >Again, her orientation with this case is irrelevant. I suggest >that you take up the rest of the questions with Bullard and look >up the citations he provides. <snip> >Your criticism here is not with me, but with those reporting the >case as an abduction. Please look up the information. <snip> >The information you seek is with Bullard's report and the >citations he provides. <snip> >Is the acrimony necessary? Is it productive? What statistics are >you after here. Jacob's statistics on what he considers the >typical abduction? Please ask him for those statistics. <snip> >I did not suggest that cataplexy explained any UFO abduction >cases, only that it was a psychological phenomenon that was not >completely understood and that could be the source of some of >these non horizontal abductions. I suggested it was an area that >we should research before we rejected it out of hand. >My point, obviously too obscure, was to suggest that some cases >can be explained by sleep paralysis. To suggest otherwise, is to >ignore the similarity between some reports of abduction and >reports of sleep paralysis. That was all I suggested here. Kevin: You can suggest that UpDaters go to the sources that you reference, but they will not do so. Fo some reason, responders here, are too lazy to seek out designated source material, preferring to argue points that would be immediately cleared up for them if they went to the literature that you (and others) cite.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:55:36 -0400 Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research Science and Faith Based Approaches to UFO Research Aloha all, in the past couple of months that I've been posting on UFO UpDates List it's become clear that many researchers have great difficulty in acknowledging the legitimacy of an exopolitical approach that uses social science criteria for analyzing UFO/ETH data from witnesses, whistleblowers, contactees, etc. For many on this List, the bottom line is hard evidence as the primary criterion for any methodology that qualifies as a rigorous scientific approach to UFO research. Those who diminish the important of hard evidence are criticized as going outside the scientific paradigm and attract pejoratives such 'true believers', 'pseudo scientists', 'conspiracy theorists', 'sloppy', 'Scullys', etc. So is hard evidence the primary basis for a rigorous scientific approach to UFO research? It would certainly appear to be the case if we base a rigorous scientific method on the natural observations of Aristotle, the parsimonious methodology advocated by William of Occam, the empirical research of David Hume, or the research methodology of James Maxwell. This 'scientific methodology' was appropriated by Allen Hynek in his, The UFO Experience: A Scientific Enquiry. Yet there is the annoying problem for those advocating a rigorous scientific method based on hard evidence. That is obviously the cover up of the UFO phenomenon and the corollary that some national security agencies are tampering with or removing the hard evidence. From what I have seen there is widespread agreement on UFO UpDates that national security agencies are engaged in a cover-up based on national security considerations. Scholarship on the Roswell crash demonstrates that a crash did occur, evidence was subsequently removed, witnesses intimidated into silence, and deceptive statements made by various national security agencies. When 'crash retrievals' such as Roswell are combined with Majestic Documents such as the Eisenhower Briefing Document, the Special Operations Manual, these appear as confirmation that national security agencies have regularly covered up evidence, intimidated witnesses, instructed military officials to lie, put out disinformation, etc. I have not seen serious objection on the forum to the proposition that national security agencies are engaged in a political cover up concerning UFOs and the ETH. However, there appears to be serious objection to the idea that national security agencies tamper with or remove hard evidence. This extends to such agencies removing the records of former employers in black projects in the manner alleged to have occurred for some whistleblowers. Many UFO researchers concede that a political cover up exists, but paradoxically contend that this does not negatively impact on their search for sufficient hard evidence to reach definitive conclusions about UFO/ETH hypotheses. This does not appear to be logical to me, and appears to be more a statement of faith than a rigorous scientific approach to the UFO phenomenon. More precisely, I am proposing that advocates of the hard evidence approach are really engaging in a faith based approach to UFO research. Many UFO researchers mask their faith based approach under the illusion that their research is based on the classical scientific paradigm due to their emphasis on hard evidence. This emphasis on hard evidence has a superficial resemblance to rigorous scientific methodology advocated by Aristotle, etc., hence the illusion that those such as Hynek were engaged in a 'scientific enquiry'. At a deeper level the emphasis on hard evidence masks a dogged denial of the fundamental nature of the national security element that contextualizes UFO research and the need for hard evidence. The logic of my thesis that the 'hard evidence' school of UFO research is really a 'faith based' approach is as follows. We can start from some of the following premises. First, the initial US Air Force inquiry into the UFO sightings phenomenon, Project Sign, provided a conclusive statement confirming the ETH but this was suppressed for national security reasons. Second, that a crash occurred at Roswell in 1947 and was subsequently covered up due to the conclusive hard evidence it provided in favor of the ETH. Third, a number of leaked Majestic documents describe the various committees, projects and processes set up to secretly deal with the UFO phenomenon in the context of a possible national security threat. Fourth, a parallel 'national security' system has been created to deal with the UFO phenomenon using funds not subject to oversight from Congressional/Legislative bodies. The corollary of the above premises is the following. If top secret committees set up a parallel infrastructure to deal with a national security 'threat' deemed too sensitive to be disclosed to the general public or congressional officials who exercise budgetary oversight; then the security system would be sure to eliminate, remove or taint hard evidence, and intimidate/discredit witnesses and whistleblowers. That this has happened can be identified in key documents such as JANAP 146 and the work of researchers such as Donald Keyhoe who was one of the first to rigorously explore the political cover up in his Flying Saucer Conspiracy. Numerous whistleblowers who have emerged in the Dr Greer's Disclosure Project assert that they indeed were instructed to lie about, and/or remove hard evidence. When one examines historical processes and documents associated with the above four premises the inescapable conclusion is that seeking 'hard evidence' in the present national security system set up in response to visitation of ET races is really an act of faith. Those researchers who assert the need to appropriate rigorous scientific methods based on 'hard evidence' are really promoting a faith based approach to UFO Research. The correct premise to begin framing research into the UFO phenomenon is that a national security system has been set up to keep the truth about the ET presence secret and to punish/intimidate/discredit those who break ranks to reveal what they had seen/done or provided any kind of hard evidence. Essentially, we need to factor in the distorting role played by national security agencies if we are to make sense of the entire UFO phenomenon and to better appreciate how to deal with testimonies from whistleblowers and witnesses of ETVs and/or EBEs. If we begin with the correct premises about the national security system set up back in the 1940s and 50s, we can better work out what's happening currently. To continue with the search for hard evidence is really a faith based approach that appropriates scientific methodology as a mask for some fallacious reasoning over what can be conclusively determined about UFOs and the ETH. Science uses deductive reasoning from premises that are based on an accurate appraisal of the environment in which research is conducted. This applies both to the physical and social sciences. The current national security system prevents the kind of rigorous scientific method advocated by many UFO researchers, yet these researchers stubbornly advocate a process that does not make logical sense in the present national security system. We need to go beyond the myopic faith based approach to UFO research, and unravel the nature of the national security system that contextualizes all UFO research, and that distorts/removes hard evidence and discredits/intimidates witnesses and whistleblowers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Medical Consultant? From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:42:22 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:56:49 -0400 Subject: Medical Consultant? Dear List: Can anyone recommend a reputable 'medical consultant' - especially regarding human blood factors - to assist in an alleged abduction that I'm currently investigating? Thanks in advance!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 FBI Take On MJ-12 & Roswell From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:03:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:44:52 -0400 Subject: FBI Take On MJ-12 & Roswell We've put links to two PDF files at our blog that show how the FBI viewed the Roswell incident on July 6th, 1947 and the Bureau's take on MJ-12. But if you have Acrobat Reader (6.0 or 7.0), you can link to the PDF files right here: http://mediawatch.homestead.com/fbi_roswell.pdf http://mediwatch.homestead.com/fbi_majestic.pdf
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:28:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:46:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >Science and Faith Based Approaches to UFO Research <snip> >For many on this List, the bottom line is hard >evidence as the primary criterion for any methodology that >qualifies as a rigorous scientific approach to UFO research. >Those who diminish the important of hard evidence are criticized >as going outside the scientific paradigm and attract pejoratives >such 'true believers', 'pseudo scientists', 'conspiracy >theorists', 'sloppy', 'Scullys', etc. So is hard evidence the >primary basis for a rigorous scientific approach to UFO >research? <snip> >We need to go beyond the myopic faith based approach to UFO >research, and unravel the nature of the national security system >that contextualizes all UFO research, and that distorts/removes >hard evidence and discredits/intimidates witnesses and >whistleblowers. Dr. Salla: What you say is true. But ufologists would have an easier time obtaining "hard evidence" on their own rather than trying to use extra-ufological sources, and it would certainly be much easier to get "flying saucer" proof aside from the whistleblower approach, which is really time consuming and fraught with the vicissitudes of deception by the military or government agencies. I think many in the UFO community, know, at some level, that the pursuit of a cover-up is not going to get them anywhere. Subliminally, we all know that even if one whistleblower was being truthful, getting the military or government to say, "Okay, you got us." is pie-in-the-sky thinking. That's all. Yoir methodology is only flawed by the belief that once the cover-up is proven, those covering-up will be forthcoming. I don't think so.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:47:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:49:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >Science and Faith Based Approaches to UFO Research <snip> Dr. Salla, I am a relative newcomer to the public UFO effort, having lurked around the community now for nigh on a decade. As you do cogently point out, there often is a two-camp nature to Ufology: The Conspiracy Theorists and the Scientists. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't discount the value of pondering and trying to unravel possible conspiracies against the otherwise very open field of UFO study. I have serious doubts about what the official lines from the governments really signifies, and everyone must carry a mammoth grain of salt to deal with it all. But, you propose that it is a zero-sum game. That's just not the case. I think the insistence of "hard evidence" is of the greatest importance to deriving the truth of the UFO phenomenon, all outside interference not withstanding. Even if what was hidden was exposed to the light of day, without hard data to back up the exposure it would remain unconvincing and thus easily re- suppressed, leaving an even tougher nut to crack later on. After all, isn't it much easier to ridicule and marginalize something that has been successfully so treated in the past? With that in mind, hard science, physical data, firm analysis - It is ALL crucial to discovery. Beyond that, there are an abundance of witness reports yearly and investigations thereof that are in no way under government purview, and thus unaffected by past cover-ups and the like. Prompt and serious attention to new reports will maintain the integrity of the pool of raw data like no other activity can.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Medical Consultant? - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:20:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:51:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Medical Consultant? - Groff >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:42:22 -0300 >Subject: Medical Consultant? >Dear List: >Can anyone recommend a reputable 'medical consultant' - >especially regarding human blood factors - to assist in an >alleged abduction that I'm currently investigating? >Thanks in advance! The list of MUFON Medical consultants are: David Berryhill, M.D. Joseph B. Burkes Saul Gonzalez, M.D. David M. Gordon Eve Gordon Dr. Takashi Imai Eugene Lipson, M.D. J. Wayne Mac Donald Dr. John G. Miller Roberto F. Orozco I don't have contact info for them but you can contact MUFON at HQ.nul and I'm sure they will put you in touch. Terry Groff
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Secrecy News -- 04/11/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:36:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:53:43 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/11/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 33 April 11, 2005 ** "UK POISON CELL" MEMBERS FOUND NOT GUILTY ** FISA ACTIVITY CONTINUES TO SOAR ** MORE FROM CRS "UK POISON CELL" MEMBERS FOUND NOT GUILTY The "UK poison cell" that was cited by Secretary of State Colin Powell as part of his February 5, 2003 presentation to the United Nations to justify U.S. military action against Iraq has proved to be yet another alarmist misrepresentation of elementary facts, according to a judicial ruling in London last week. A British jury found that the so-called "UK poison cell" was "not guilty of conspiracy to murder by plotting ricin attacks and, generally speaking, not guilty of conspiracy to do anything," wrote George Smith of GlobalSecurity.org, who served as an expert witness in the trial. The verdict followed a remarkable series of missteps and misunderstandings by intelligence analysts, law enforcement personnel and government officials. Thus, for example, the supposed discovery of ricin in a London apartment used by the "cell" was false. No genuine traces of chemical or biological weapons were ever discovered. Likewise, a purported recipe for purifying ricin that was found in a Manchester raid in 2000 was not from an "al Qaeda manual," as the U.S. government alleged, but derived ultimately from a popular handbook published in the U.S. Moreover, observed Dr. Smith, a chemist, the recipe would not achieve its intended result. The tangled tale, which is or ought to be a source of embarrassment to both the U.S. and U.K. governments, is presented by George Smith in "UK Terror Trial Finds No Terror," National Security Notes, GlobalSecurity.org, April 11: http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/nsn/nsn-050411.htm FISA ACTIVITY CONTINUES TO SOAR "During calendar year 2004, 1,758 applications were made to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for electronic surveillance and physical search," according to the latest Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) annual report to Congress. That established a new annual record for domestic counterintelligence and counterterrorism surveillance and search activity. A copy of the 2004 FISA annual report to Congress, dated April 30, 2004, is here: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/2004rept.pdf Two FISA-related reports from the Congressional Research Service are: "Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act: Selected Legislation from the 108th Congress," updated January 11, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/intel/RL32608.pdf and "The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act: An Overview of the Statutory Framework and Recent Judicial Decisions," updated September 22, 2004: http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL30465.pdf MORE FROM CRS Some recent Congressional Research Service reports obtained by Secrecy News include: "Sudan: Humanitarian Crisis, Peace Talks, Terrorism, and U.S. Policy," updated March 11, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IB98043.pdf "Chemical Plant Security," updated February 14, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL31530.pdf "China and Proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction and Missiles: Policy Issues," updated February 22, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL31555.pdf "F/A-22 Raptor," updated March 3, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL31673.pdf "Peacekeeping and Related Stability Operations: Issues of U.S. Military Involvement," updated March 10, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/IB94040.pdf "Space Launch Vehicles: Government Activities, Commercial Competition, and Satellite Exports," updated March 7, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/space/IB93062.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:06:02 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:55:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Sparks >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:22:22 -0500 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:03:31 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:34:10 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >>Once again, for historical purpose, I leave in Stan's original >>quote that set off this latest discussion: >>How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >>sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >>cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking > >>etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >>abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >>disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving >>or by doing other non horizontal activities? <snip> >>>>I will note that in case 039 in Bullard's "The UFO Abductions: >>>>The Measure of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases," >>>>that Egidio Silva reported that he had gone outside because his >>>>dog was barking, a powerful light was shown down on him and >>>>he felt paralyzed. Not the best example, for sure, but one that >>>>fits, generally, the conditions of waking paralysis. >>>This is paralysis by ray beam. There are many such cases in the >>>UFO literature. Why pick this one out? Just because for some >>>reason it made it into Bullard's catalogue? What about the many >>>dozens of others ray beam paralysis cases, all non-abductions >>>but merely CE II's? By the way where is the UFO in this Silva >>>case? Where is the "abduction"? >>Picked out for the simple reason that it was in Bullard's >>abduction catalog. Although loath to suggest it, why not look >>this up for yourself. See why Bullard included it and see where >>the abduction fit in. <snip> Look this was Kevin Randle's argument to cite this case when he failed to show how a UFO or UFO abduction was even involved. He has the obligation to prove his own points. So far he has presented only a handful of purported cases (which I would argue are not even genuine "UFO abductions" in the first place) to support his Sleep Paralysis UFO Dream-like Abduction hypothesis. That seems to be less than 1% of the 1,000+ UFO abduction cases supposedly on record. I challenged Randle to back up his nebulous statistical argument ("some cases" - well how many?) with actual numbers and then you step in and call me "lazy" because I won't do Randle's homework for him (or for you). >Actually, the author of the study is allowed to define his >terms, which is what Bullard did. If you have a quarrel with the >methodology, I suggest you take it up with Bullard. I have a quarrel with Randle's methodology in citing a few cases from Bullard's catalog as if it automatically means every case in Bullard's catalog is a classic genuine "UFO abduction" of the type that is _most_difficult_ to explain in conventional terms. We can waste everyone's time all day long with relatively easy to explain UFO cases, including alleged UFO abductions, that are nebulous, confused, borderline because poorly investigated or borderline because of witness confusion (or both) or indistinguishable from dreams and indeed occur during sleep. Stan's point was that there were "literally hundreds of cases" of UFO abductions "where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking etc." or engaged in what he called "other non horizontal activities" (meaning they were abducted by UFO's and _not_ in bed "horizontal" at the time). If you can't explain
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:08:23 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:56:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches - Sparks >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research <snip> >Aloha all, in the past couple of months that I've been posting >on UFO UpDates List it's become clear that many researchers >have great difficulty in acknowledging the legitimacy of an >exopolitical approach that uses social science criteria for >analyzing UFO/ETH data from witnesses, whistleblowers, >contactees, etc. We've seen no "social science criteria" for "analyzing" data only excuses for _not_ analyzing and applying critical thinking to ludicrous and absurd stories from phony "whistleblowers" who are just whistling in the wind with their crazy tales. >For many on this List, the bottom line is hard >evidence as the primary criterion for any methodology that >qualifies as a rigorous scientific approach to UFO research. >Those who diminish the important of hard evidence are criticized >as going outside the scientific paradigm and attract pejoratives >such 'true believers', 'pseudo scientists', 'conspiracy >theorists', 'sloppy', 'Scullys', etc. So is hard evidence the >primary basis for a rigorous scientific approach to UFO >research? <snip> >some national security agencies are tampering with >... the hard evidence. <snip> >national security agencies have regularly >covered up evidence, intimidated witnesses, instructed military >officials to lie, put out disinformation, etc. Once again, it's the "national security agencies" (such as CIA) who have "instructed" the "military" (USAF) to do the evil deeds. Like the previous propaganda theme analysis I posted, we see the continuing pattern here: CIA bad. Military good. Hopefully clearance will be obtained soon from AFOSI to allow some criticism of the military, i.e., the AF, in these postings so that this embarrassingly obvious pattern of favoritism towards the USAF, the blunting of any criticism of the AF for the Roswell coverup and UFO coverup and disinformation in general, and the denigration of the CIA and other "national security agencies" can be masked with some good strong, direct criticism of the AF blues. Just trying to help your handlers out. :) They're embarrassing themselves by betraying the identity of their AF masters with their obvious telltale signs of pro-AF, pro-military, anti-CIA bias. <snip> >national security agencies tamper with ... hard evidence. <snip> >initial US Air Force inquiry into the UFO sightings phenomenon, >Project Sign, provided a conclusive statement confirming the ETH Again, a clear statement that the USAF, the military, are the good guys. The bad guys are the "national security agencies" that suppressed and covered up the USAF's "conclusive" pro-ETH statement. <snip> >taint hard evidence, and >...discredit witnesses and whistleblowers. >Essentially, we need to factor in the distorting role played by >national security agencies ... >unravel the nature of the national security system >that contextualizes all UFO research, and that distorts ... >hard evidence and discredits ... witnesses and >whistleblowers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:31:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:58:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >Science and Faith Based Approaches to UFO Research <snip> >However, there appears to be serious objection to the idea that >national security agencies tamper with or remove hard evidence. I am _many_ orders of magnitude less important than UFO related hard evidence. At one point, an MKULTRA torture survivor furnished me a photo of her father, asking me to post it and ask visitors to the site what they knew about the man. He was a CIA agent, who submitted his daughter for extreme torture and programming when she was a toddler. Since MKULTRA is not the main thrust of my sites, I wasn't watching that page closely, but at some point: - the photo was deleted from my web site - the photo was deleted from multiple directories on multiple PCs and a file server - the photo was deleted from several floppy diskettes both at home and at work, stored in different locations - the hard copy photo was removed from my voluminous paper files (In fact, my hard copy files are routinely stolen - I can't keep any very long.) - all references to the photo were edited out of three separate pages on the web site
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 11 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:18:22 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Sparks >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:03:31 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:34:10 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >Once again, for historical purpose, I leave in Stan's original >quote that set off this latest discussion: >"How anybody can claim that abductions rest with complicated >sleep disorders is beyond me. There are literally hundreds of >cases where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking >etc. There are loads of cases where more than one person is >abducted at a time. Now will we hear about a new contagious >disease.. sleep paralysis that occurs when people are driving or >doing other non horizontal activities?" <snip> I'm glad you re-quoted Stan, as I had re-quoted Stan, but unfortunately you continue to sidestep Stan's point about the "literally hundreds of cases" of UFO abductions "where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking etc. ... or doing other non horizontal activities." In fact you keep lambasting me (in your post - snipped out) about how "horizontal" "orientation" has nothing to do with anything yet it was an important point made by Stan that you so ostentatiously re-quoted for all to see again. Stan said many hundreds of UFO abductions occur during "non horizontal activities." You did not present any statistics to refute Stan, and that was _my_ point. The cases you cited involved people asleep, i.e., "horizontal." Evidently your Sleep Paralysis UFO Dream-like Abduction idea may account for the cases of Sleeping or Sleep-like UFO Dream and Dream-like Imaginary "Abductions," or less than 1% of a very broadly defined database of "UFO abductions" which seems to include all of what we would call IFO's (or conventional explanations). If it's significantly more than 1% then you need to prove it with some valid statistics. The few cases you cited make less than 1% of 1,000+ UFO abductions on record in various collections. Since you co-authored a book on UFO abductions, "The Abduction Enigma," you should have some knowledge of UFO abduction databases and statistics and should be able to back up your claims here without forcing others (like me) to do your homework for you. I do not know what the truly Unexplained UFO Abduction cases are, or what causes them. But I do know that sleep phenomena and dreams do not seem like a very good explanation for any but a small IFO-like fraction of the total that should not be of central concern to anyone trying to solve the main UFO abductions mystery. As I said before this is very much like debunkers who adulterate the "UFO" sample with IFO's (and indeterminate cases) then
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:12:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Ledger >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission Hi James, I assume you wanted me to answer these. See in text. >Since it was brought up again on SDI, last night, and Mr. >Ledger is doing some research on it, may I ask a few questions >of the gentleman? >1) From the witness statement, "...That same evening, I sat at >the typewriter and wrote out everything, time, date, place, and >mission, plus all the names I could remember of who were there >with all the facts concerning the incident, and asked Jim Baker >to read it and sign it. He read it and signed it on condition >that I would give him a copy of the report. I went to the >copier, and made six complete copies of the report and gave Jim >one of them. .... I asked him (Jim Baker) if he still had his >report hidden away and he told me he had actually burned his >copy, but had given a copy to another friend from West Virginia who wanted it." >Okay, here we have a statement that indicates the signed copy >still exists. Why can't he make it public? I'm pretty sure he would if he knew where that copy was. As mentioned, Baker gave it to someone in West Virginia. My impression is that he's kept this to himself for a long time and just wants to get the event out in the open. >If he isn't interested in that, then why doesn't he at least >check to see what the times are so a detailed scouring of the >NASA imagery/audio data can occur? I don't think he has any way of doing that. Again it would have been handy if he'd had that letter which had the times and dates. >2) From his statement: >".....The object started a slow move from screen left to screen >right. The camera on the left front of the Rover followed the >object as it moved screen right. Soon it was apparent that it >actually wasn't moving screen right, but was circling the Rover. >The Rover has two mounted cameras on it. One camera was mounted >on the left front and one on the right rear. As the object came >into view of the right rear, that camera picked up the object >and continued tracking it as it circled, very slowly around the >Rover. It finally came to the point where the right rear camera >could no longer follow it, so the left front camera picked up >the image again and followed it to where it was once more above >where the Astronauts were in Hadley's Rille." >If he has such a statement as mentioned in #1 to refresh his >memory, can he explain why he thought there were TWO video >cameras on the Moon for that mission instead of only 1. (there >is no place to put another video camera on the rover!). No >second video camera exists in any mission on the surface! There were two cameras on the rover, one video in the left front and the other a 16 mm movie camera which was mounted on a shorter post in the mid right rear of the Lunar rover. The latter could not have shot video pictures >3) Have you or anyone on the List gotten the DVD of the Apollo >15 mission and viewed _all_ the footage when they were at >Hadley's Rille to see what the witness _might_ be talking about? I wasn't aware that the was a DVD. It would have to have been the raw deed from the rover and not the stuff CBS was getting which could be cut at will in Houston. >4) From his statement: >"Astronauts were in Hadley's Rille. They couldn't be seen >because they were over the edge, down in the Rille itself. The >Lunar Rover was about thirty, maybe forty or more yards from the >edge, and had the left front camera on the spot where the >Astronauts had disappeared. " >Although the rover is 30-40 yards from the edge, I wonder how >he knows they were "in Hadley's Rille" and "over the edge". I don't think they [the astronauts] were in Hadley Rill. This might have occurred during EVA 2 excursion at Station 6. To most people regardless where the astronauts were on this mission the were "in" Hadley Rill. These fire specialists probably thought the same thing. >See: >http://www.lpi.usra.edu/expmoon/Apollo15/A15_Lsite.Traverse.gif >I cannot see or find where they tried to go "over the edge". >The video I can find does not show this happening. They >"disappear" by moving behind the camera field of view. I do find >where one astronaut falls at 165:32:01 but not down the Rille. Again, that was in the small crater at Station 6. >5) Regarding the "crypto" room, I would like to know if Oberg >heard of such a room. Don't know. Had you Jim? >Although I would hope data sent and received by NASA to >spacecraft was/is encoded to prevent Soviets and others from >damaging spacecraft, I would think this would be sent to MCC and >likely the encoders in some locked/protected black box nearby, >not in a conference room. There is a chance of images being sent >over a crypto-"fax" (in that room) to NASA by other agencies to >help identify craft. I can't see why they would "put them up on >the wall", unless they were clearly not anything important. >Common sense shows you have to lock things up after you look at >them. What kind of security system leaves them on the wall???? >Another possible thing the room was used for was high level >strategic planning. To assure bugs weren't planted, they need a >"secured" room. The same room could be used for contract >decision making, possible military interaction (using NASA >equipment for military apps). Why wouldn't the UFOs on the wall >just be advanced concepts/artist renderings/model photos? Given >the state of relations with the Soviets, security made sense. Yeah, but why have UFO pictures on the wall in the first place. Why at NASA. If true, there's a story in there somewhere. If the area was supposed to be secure, I see no reason why they wouldn't be on the wall as you had a problem with above, if there was some reason why NASA,or more likely some department of the air force was taking them seriously. >Also, it is implied by Mr. Ledger that the ability for the Mars >rovers to outlast their design life was possibly due to alien >intervention. No I didn't. I was suggesting that the rover's camera be panned around to see if there was a roll of paper towel and a bottle of Windex in sight. It was funny - or supposed to be. >I think it is too extreme to presume this since dust devils occur on Mars (we KNOW there are dust storms, so the the atmosphere CAN be turbulent) and are the most reasonable explanation for the cleaning of the solar arrays. Or possible due to the extremely dry atmosphere where a static charge might build up enough potential to spontaneously discharge off the solar arrays repelling the dust. Just a theory, but certainly the obvious culprit is the Martian winds. >It was also implied during the program that it was "mysterious" >why we did not go back to the Moon or why we stopped. It is in >no way mysterious. Going to the Moon was/is expensive. You need >a well defined business case. This does not exist. Thus it ends >up being performed at the whim of politicians for political >reasons. Once we had got there and once interest had waned (as >Ledger states in the program) there was _no_ reason to continue. I've no doubt of the political interference and the timidity of the average politician when faced with the albatross of inner city welfare problems and the "war' on poverty, etc. Also the Vietnam war was going on through the whole of the Apollo program that was eating up much of the American budget-never mind the ongoing "Cold War" The Apollo missions and the manned space program to the Moon ended two years before that war. War is apparently more important than space exploration. Someone made damn sure though that they didn't go back to the Moon in the near future. Like the Avro Arrow, the Saturn 5 rocket was scrapped and construction was discontinued. If I learn more, I'll pass it along.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? - Weber From: William Weber <wweber1.nul> Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:49:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:16:15 -0400 Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? - Weber >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:29:16 -0400 >Subject: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >I'm just going to put this out there because I think I have to. >However, I will not debate the value or validity of the >material. I firmly believe this is _strong_ evidence for UFOs >being _intelligently_ guided and makes a strong case for the >reality the abductees have testifying about for decades. >See for yourself: >http://www.virtuallystrange.com/aic/formation.html >Ladies and gents, you are cordially invited to make of this what >you will. As I said, I consider it compelling evidence. I am >dead certain others will consider it the product of a fevered >imagination. Take a look at the third paragraph, below, that mentions a 'Z-shaped' formation. This seems at least somewhat similar to what you've described and placed in the graphic. Best, Bill --- Unusual Sightings In The Sky Peak Interest In The Thumb http://mimufon.org/1990%20articles/HuronDailyTribune1999.htm by Stacy Langley Source: Huron Daily Tribune - 1999 (Huron Daily Tribune-Bad Axe, MI) Unusual sightings have been the talk of town in Unionville (Michigan) and several surrounding communities as residents compare stories and probe officials about the weird light spotted in the skies last week. The past few years, sightings of unidentified objects in the sky have been quite common and without much explanation. Adiel DeBoever of Unionville said he was the first person to call Tuscola County Central Dispatch around 8:30 p.m. March 16 just after he spotted the lights in the sky hovering over his home. DeBoever said this is the first time he's seen lights like this. He said they were bright orange in color and looked to be shining from the inside of an object. "The lights weren't like a spotlight shinning down from the sky, but they were very noticeable," he said. The sighting by DeBoever was just one of five reported that night by area residents who say they saw the unidentified flying object(s). DeBoever, who lives on Cottage Drive near Unionville, says the lights would just blink out of sight and then come back on, but the object seemed to remain in the same place the whole time. "The lights were off and then came back on, it was eerie," he said. DeBoever recalls that as far as distance, the light probably were half a mile away to the East, just above the Department of Natural Resources wetlands when he saw them. "They spanned about the entire length of a football field. There were two sets of light clusters which were bright orange. The larger one could have been further away," he said. "When my nephew came out of the house I said 'Eddie, there's a UFO in the sky' just joking and then the light blinked out, but came on this time. "It appeared to separate into six other lights and they all moved and stopped in the shape of a large triangle object which then appeared to rotate on its axis. "Officials at the Tuscola County Central Dispatch say they have no explanation for what the lights were that night, but say that DeBoever wasn't alone in the sightings. Shortly after DeBoever's call, Central Dispatch reports a call came in at 8:57 p.m. from a Juanita Township resident who reported seeing orange lights in the sky. Just two minutes later, a Novesta Township woman called with a similar sighting. Callers from Fremont Township and the Fairgrove area followed. The caller described seeing orange lights in the shape of a football field, while the Fairgrove residents reported seeing a Z-shaped formation in the sky. Officials from Selfridge Air National Guard Base said they couldn't offer any explanation about the lights in the sky, and no sightings were reported to the base. Light formation spanning over a HUGE area and moving very slowly from South to North direction then aiming downward My retired neighbors (husband and wife) and their son age 40 and myself, a nurse , saw in the evening sky a string of blue and white lights move slowly from generally South to North ( possibly southwest to northeast). The lights were horizontal when we first saw them. I held my hand at arm's length and opened my hand as far as I could. Then I held my hand up to the lights and they spanned longer than the distance between the tips of my thumb and index finger. It passed over my subdivision as it continued in it's path. It took approximately 10 seconds for it to travel from one end of my subdivision to the other (about one mile), but the lights spanned over at least 1/4 of that mile.) It was very long. We heard no noise, but it was traveling at a low altitude -- lower than the airplanes fly over the subdivision as they ready to come in for a landing. We could not make out a form of the object it could have been cigar shaped or disc shaped (assuming that the lights were positioned on the outside edge of the object.) As it moved, it passed behind some clouds and then reappeared. Then the string began to slowly aim downward at approximately a 45 degree angle to the earth. It continued downward and I could guestimate that if it were to hit the earth, it would hit somewhere in Flint, which is 10 miles NE of Swartz Creek. At that point, we could no longer see it. (I was expecitng to see it either ascend and reappear or to see some flash or something to indicate that it crashed). We did not see it again. I felt that the object was at least 5 miles away when it began to tilt downward. The distance between each light remained constant throughout the sighting. Fint's Bishop airport is about 4 miles from Swartz Creek. There were no
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 12 British Ufology In The Media Spotlight From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:15:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:17:50 -0400 Subject: British Ufology In The Media Spotlight I've been involved in several recent features that have promoted British ufology. The first was an interview in the current (May) issue of Bizarre, a somewhat risque magazine that does nonetheless carry some more informative articles from time to time. The interview's on page 114. I also did a double page feature in Take It Easy, colour supplement to The People - a UK national Sunday newspaper. The feature ran last Sunday. Associated with this were six radio interviews (including British Forces Radio), one of which was syndicated to a further 26 local stations. The above features were the result of an unusual collaboration between myself and a PR company who had commissioned me to promote the rental release of Species III on DVD and VHS. While some ufologists are uncomfortable about implying a connection between sci-fi and ufology, I take the view that opportunities to promote ufology should be taken when they arise. Finally, the May issue of the popular science and technology magazine Focus is now available and features a major article on UFOs. I promise it's got nothing to do with me or Species III.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 12 The NASA Moon Photos From: Simon Hicks <slh.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:30:51 +0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:47:11 -0400 Subject: The NASA Moon Photos Source: Palyne 'PJ' Gaenir's Fire Docs Collections http://www.firedocs.com/anomalous/NASA-moon-photos-saccheri-leonard.html The NASA Moon Photos My Story Of Dealing With NASA In The 1970's by Vito Saccheri (C) 1995, Houston Sky From: "Houston Sky" No.5, June/July 1995 A Houston-area MUFON publication In 1979, I was a project manager for a privately owned engineering company doing business with the Venezuelan oil industry. My counterpart in Venezuela, our client's chief engineer, an American engineer named Lester Howes, had come to Houston on business. Les and I had spoken by phone and telex for years (no fax machines back then), but we had never met. We hit it off when he arrived, and after a few days, he confided that he had an ulterior motive in coming to Houston. After asking me to keep an open mind, he told me he was both an amateur astronomer and a ufologist and that he wanted my help in obtaining access to secret photos held somewhere inside NASA. I was speechless. When I finished laughing, I realized he was dead serious. Some of the guys at work thought Les was just a little light in the loafers, and others thought he was just plain crazy, but I could see that he was concerned about what I would think of him. After all, we were professional engineers, and he had taken quite a chance with me. Les showed me a small paperback book entitled "Somebody Else Is on the Moon," written by a former NASA scientist, George H. Leonard. Leonard had been working in the photo intelligence division of NASA. His job had been to interpret moon pictures taken by the unmanned space probes we were sending there during the early and mid-sixties. NASA was mapping the moon, scoping out possible landing sites for the future manned missions. Les lent me the book, and I read it overnight. Leonard had come across photos he felt confirmed the presence of a very ancient- and possibly current-civilization on the moon. He explained that in 1961, President Kennedy had committed the USA to reaching the moon within a decade, primarily because throughout the 1950s, the scientific community had been rocked by observatories around the world, which began reporting and later confirming that "moon craters" were actually disappearing, right out from under the watchful eyes of their state-of-the-art telescopes! Since the possible ramifications were obvious (and presumably, since the Roswell incident had already gotten the government's attention), the powers that be had decided that Uncle Sam had to be the first to reach the moon. After arguing futilely with NASA authorities about releasing the photos, Leonard published them himself in his book. He felt the taxpayers had a right to know what NASA knew, pointing out that despite a nine-year mobilization effort that had cost billions of dollars, NASA had shut down the entire moon project after only a few landings. His contention was that we had confirmed that we were trespassing! The small photos would show little, so he provided hand-drawn sketches to accompany each photo. And he published the special NASA identification code numbers for each picture. When I finished the book, I called Les and said I was intrigued and would help. The very next day, we made the first trip out to NASA and spent the day taking the guided and self-guided tours. On the second day, we made our move. We entered the public orientation building and told the receptionist that we wanted to make arrangement to see some moon pictures. With no clue where to start, she eventually directed us to her supervisor, who was equally at a loss. Apparently, no one charged with dealing with the public knew where NASA kept its photos-or whether they kept them at all. And no "Photo Records" department showed up on any list. We were passed around to at least four other people before someone admitted that NASA had lots of photos "somewhere" on the complex, but that the public wasn't permitted to view "unauthorized" photos of any project. That's when we changed our strategy. Les blurted out, "Isn't it true that NASA is a civilian agency funded by taxpayer money?" Confusion spread over her face, and I added, "Well, we're two taxpayers, and we're here to see our pictures. Who's got them?" Before she could recover, we flashed Leonard's book in her face. I continued, "What's so unauthorized about pictures that have already been published?" From then on, we decided to stay on the offensive at all times. Reinforcements were called in, and we soon found ourselves having the same conversation with the big boys from administration. None had seen the book, but significantly, one had taken the time to confirm that Leonard was in fact a former NASA scientist-at the Jet Propulsion Lab, from what I could gather. This threw them, and they seemed even curious to learn about the book. For after all, the information had been generated by NASA in the first place. We settled for a truce and to return the next day. Before leaving, however, we reiterated that these two taxpayers had every intention of going to the mat with whoever was holding back "our photos." To make a very long story short, we spent the next several days filling out enough forms to give a woodpecker a headache. My office advised me that NASA had called to confirm my employment history and to inquire about Les. His hotel advised that someone had called to confirm that he was staying there. Obviously, the wheels were turning. Finally, someone called to say we could see the photos. We returned to NASA thinking we had finally succeeded. But success was not to be so easy. We were directed to a Building 30, which had not been on the tour and which didn't even exist. Building 30 A turned out to be empty so we walked into Building 30 B and found ourselves in the middle of a high-security area where an existing mission was being monitored. Realizing that we were somewhere we should not have been, we tried to blend in. Failing miserably to do so, we were soon unceremoniously tossed out. Security personnel demanded to know how we had passed the civilian section and what was this about moon pictures, taxpayers, and a book about the moon? We knew we were really in sheep dip when security not only whisked us out of the building but escorted us off the premises altogether. The next day, after some scrambling on both sides, officials apologized to us for the mix-up. For our part, we insinuated that at least one thousand photocopies of the Leonard book could rain down on everyone on the space center's mailing list. We were counting on this bluff to get us past what we considered an impasse. It was time for NASA to act. After all, we weren't a couple of underwater pipe welders from Boise... We were fellow engineers, brothers of the blood! Finally, some serious discussions transpired. The photo library, we were told, had been relocated off-site to the "Lunar Landing Observatory" directly adjacent to the east NASA property on NASA Road 1. They would be expecting us in two more days at 8:00 AM. Two days later, we drove east on NASA 1 past the main entrance of the facility, found a chain-link fence that marked the eastern limit of the property line, expecting to see a building or sign. Nothing but a heavily wooded area! Driving back and forth along the road trying to decide whether they had done it to us again, we noticed a narrow dirt road running back into the woods directly along NASA's fence line. Hung on the chain between two small posts was a sign that read simply: "No Trespassing." Instinct told us this had to be the place. We lowered the chain and drove about three-quarters of a mile down the dirt road, which U-turned back toward the highway. Directly behind the trees and camouflaged by the woods was our building. There was no number, only a small plaque near the door that read "Lunar Landing Observatory" in half-inch high letters. Somehow we weren't surprised. Upon entering, we found ourselves in a small alcove. A large main room buzzing with people was off to the right, and what appeared to be a small broom closet was on the opposite wall. When we told the receptionist we wanted the library, she pointed toward the broom closet, which as it turned out, opened onto a winding stairway leading down into a dimly lit under-ground tunnel. I'm certain it took us back toward the NASA property line. At the end of the tunnel was a large room where we found ourselves standing in front of a wall-to-wall counter separating us from the librarian, who was sitting on a stool. I seem to remember that his name was Roger. He explained that there were at least two million photos in the library, everything NASA had ever photographed since year one. Unfortunately, no one could see "random" photos, as time was always short and filing systems complicated. In other words, to see any picture, you need its specific code number. Roger was surprised that we had all the numbers (no one had told him about the book). We handed him our list, thinking we had hit pay dirt at last. But after a quick glance, he gave us the bad news: the numbers were meaningless in Houston. He explained that for security reasons, NASA had split the country into five regions, each with a duplicate set of records and a different code number system. Leonard's numbers weren't applicable in this facility. I asked where the master list was kept, and Roger replied at Langley, Virginia. Les and I looked at each other... We didn't have to say it, but we suspected who that meant. We huddled in the corner for a few minutes trying to decide whether this was another stalling effort. But we had come too far to give up. We informed Roger that we wanted to proceed. He said that someone in the NASA complex had the proper forms to start the ball rolling. He just wasn't sure who since no one had ever requested the photos before. We were the first, he said, at least in Houston. A few days later Roger called us to come fill out new forms, though there wasn't much they didn't already know about us. It took two more days, but our summons finally came. Roger announced that the photos were ready for our inspection. There were, however, strict rules: we were to get three eight-hour business days. We were not allowed pens, pencils, paper, calculator, camera, or recording devices of any kind. Nor could we be left alone with the photos. We were allowed only the book and a magnifying loupe. We would be escorted in and out for lunch and bathroom breaks. If we agreed to these terms, he said, we could begin at nine o'clock the next morning. We arrived at eight. This time, we were escorted in by two men. We found five extra- long conference room tables set up in a U shape. We had expected to find only the pictures listed in Leonard's book. To our amazement, there were thousands of photos, all in sets of numerical order. Leonard had mentioned that the photos were numbered sequentially by the cameras. He also had mentioned that each time the on-board computer analyzing a photo picked up an anomaly, it triggered a sequence of additional photos that zoomed in on the target closer and closer. The photos were huge, approximately 32 by 24 inches, with a dull grey, almost dull-black look. On the back of each, technical information was recorded, such as the probe's height above the moon's surface while it was taking the picture, the angle of approach, and the location of the sun in relation to the capsule. Frustratingly, we had all the technical data for triangulation - simple trigonometry and algebra were all that we needed to compute the size and distance of anything shown. But without paper, calculators, or pencils, we were limited to what we could do in our heads, and we weren't up to it - the numbers were too big, the angles too acute. We had to rely on Leonard's numbers. But we verified everything that he had seen. To this day, I can remember these views: A boulder that seemed to have been rolled uphill, leaving its tracks in the side of the hill; obvious machinery on the surface, showing bolted sections; three dilapidated "bridges" crossing a chasm that reminded me of the Grand Canyon; pipe fittings that looked like four-way Ts (or Xs) that could be seen in every photo, some with their ends turned up or down as they hung over the edge of a crater; three surprising pyramids that prompted me later to closely study the Egyptian Giza pyramid complex; apparent pipelines criss-crossing the surface, running to and from craters; a UFO rising from the surface and photographed directly above a crater; and perhaps the most memorable, the unmistakable figure of a rectangular structure placed squarely in the biggest crater pictured - the structure looked either very old or under construction, but the crater had to be miles wide, and the camera angle gave a perfect three-dimensional view. The clarity and resolution were unlike that of anything I had seen before or since, and I shudder to think that this was only the beginnings of the spy-in-the-sky technology that has evolved since then. Nobody said much at all for three days. Lester was in hog heaven, having realized his greatest ambition. And I was hooked on UFOs. On our last day, actually during our last hours, I had seen enough and decided to stretch my legs. As I was escorted back to the main room, I noticed a false panel that was slightly ajar and peeked inside. Floor-to-ceiling bookshelves were filled with white three-ring binders. Roger volunteered that most of the binders were filled with the details of NASA's scientific experiments conducted in space. The rest, he said, were simply transcripts of the manned space flights, including the moon landings. Since he had gotten to know us over the three days and had enjoyed seeing the photos himself, he gave me a wink and a nod and allowed me to enter the room unescorted. I spent most of the remaining time poring over the scientific data, as I wasn't much interested in the transcripts. After all, along with four billion others, I had watched the first lunar landing on TV. Fortunately, however, I decided to browse some transcripts and flipped casualty through a few, killing the last 15 minutes of time. Then my eyes caught it - "Houston, we've got a bogey at two o'clock." And there was more - "Roger that, Apollo. Switching to alpha. Roll eight degrees and begin sequence... " "Roger, Mission Control. Confirming alpha." Though I knew instinctively what it meant, I couldn't believe what I was reading. I raced through the pages and other mission transcripts and found similar dialogue: "Mission Control, we've got Santa Claus coming over the hill...." "Roger, Apollo. Hold your fix. Switching bravo. Do you copy?" "Roger, Houston. Bravo link...." These guys were reporting UFO activity, but I couldn't remember ever hearing this during the live TV broadcasts of lunar missions in `69 and `70. I was too dumbfounded to say a word and too scared to tell Les or Roger. I didn't want to get either of them in trouble - we had no clearance to see these documents. So I just kept my mouth shut while Les asked Roger if there was any way to buy some of the pictures we had reviewed. Roger gave us more forms to fill out and told us it would take several weeks. When the pictures arrived, Les was back in Venezuela. They were lousy as we expected, with almost no resolution. No one who saw them was impressed, least of all me. But I remained preoccupied all the same, particularly with my other find. Not until years later did I mention the transcripts to a few close friends. One eventually mentioned a special lady he thought I should meet. Since I don't have permission to use her name, I'll call her Jane. Jane was a college co-ed at the time, transcribing audio tapes for NASA. I eventually asked her how astronauts could talk about UFOs during live broadcasts being transmitted all over the world without anyone hearing their conversation. She explained that the space program had developed many technologies which at the time had not been declassified or adapted for commercial use. One of these new developments - unknown to the general public - was instant replay video, which would become common later. But in 1969 and 70, only a handful of people were aware of it. Thus, NASA could switch the Mission Control picture to a live broadcast of a news reporter standing next to a full-scale mockup, and while a viewer's attention was diverted, the real stuff was happening behind the scenes. It's no wonder that in the early days, only military pilots were qualified to be astronauts. These were the guys with the real right stuff - they knew how to keep their mouths shut! When I met moon photo researcher Marvin Czarnik in 1995, I learned that he had helped develop some of the technical systems used at NASA. Besides the length of time of instant replay, he knew that code words like "Alpha" and "Bravo' referred to special switching stations around the country that "switch" broadcast reception away from Houston and Mission Control directly to CIA headquarters in Langley. This was my missing puzzle piece. I knew then for certain who it was that had the master list of photographs. In 1980, another puzzle piece fell into place. A friend had shown me a special congressional subcommittee report on moon rocks brought back by the astronauts and a feasibility study on colonizing the moon. The document was dated 1972 or '73 and concluded that moon colonization using giant plastic air bubbles was unrealistic and that we would need to transport air from the earth. The congressional report concluded that there was plenty of oxygen on the moon trapped in the rocks. The recommend solution: pulverize the rocks on a large scale with major excavations. The liberated oxygen would be stored in underground caverns and tunnel systems and the debris from these pulverized rocks dumped into the existing craters. Naturally, the craters would eventually disappear, an observation made by astronomers long before the first moon landings and, ironically, one that had initially prompted Leonard and other scientists of the 1950s to analyze early moon photos. That the moon should be occupied by others who periodically visit the earth makes perfect sense to me. I remember in the 1960s, after President Kennedy mobilized NASA, that the talk was about beating the Russians to the moon and using it as a station, or stepping stone, to the stars. In those days, there were great debates on who would get the mining and mineral rights if gold or other precious metals were found. Also in those days, there were arguments about allowing the U.S. military to place missiles on the moon since it was not to be used militarily. Today, we no longer talk about using the moon as a base of any kind. Instead, we talk about using space stations. Why? The moon would seem to be a ready-made station. And why aren't companies like U.S. Steel, 3M, and Shell Oil lining up for concessions to the moon's mineral rights? I can remember when Pan Am World Airways was actually selling advance tickets to the moon! And finally, when has the government's Defense Department _not_ pushed for funding to build a strategic missile base with first- strike capability? They're still building Star Wars. Personally, I think Leonard was right, and I thank Lester Howes for trusting me to get involved. Someday I'll track him down and tell him about those transcripts. ----- Houston Sky is published as a forum for the open exchange of ideas and information for Houston-area MUFON members and others. Because views within the UFO community are so varied, the opinions and observations expressed in HS do not necessarily reflect the views of the editorial staff or of other MUFON members. Reprint Policy: Selections may be reprinted. Please credit Houston Sky and identify it as a Houston-area MUFON publication.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 12 Re: The NASA Moon Photos - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:19:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:23:51 -0400 Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos - Shough >From: Simon Hicks <slh.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:30:51 +0800 >Subject: The NASA Moon Photos >Source: Palyne 'PJ' Gaenir's Fire Docs Collections >http://www.firedocs.com/anomalous/NASA-moon-photos-saccheri-leonard.html >The NASA Moon Photos >My Story Of Dealing With NASA In The 1970's >by >Vito Saccheri <snip> >Leonard had mentioned that the photos were >numbered sequentially by the cameras. He also had mentioned >that each time the on-board computer analyzing a photo picked >up an anomaly, it triggered a sequence of additional photos that >zoomed in on the target closer and closer. Real-time image analysis, "anomaly" detection, and autonomous
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:18:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:45:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Reynolds >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:06:02 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:22:22 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:03:31 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:34:10 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >>>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>>I will note that in case 039 in Bullard's "The UFO Abductions: >>>>>The Measure of a Mystery, Volume 2: Catalogue of Cases," >>>>>that Egidio Silva reported that he had gone outside because his >>>>>dog was barking, a powerful light was shown down on him and >>>>>he felt paralyzed. Not the best example, for sure, but one that >>>>>fits, generally, the conditions of waking paralysis. >>>>This is paralysis by ray beam. There are many such cases in the >>>>UFO literature. Why pick this one out? Just because for some >>>>reason it made it into Bullard's catalogue? What about the many >>>>dozens of others ray beam paralysis cases, all non-abductions >>>>but merely CE II's? By the way where is the UFO in this Silva >>>>case? Where is the "abduction"? >>>Picked out for the simple reason that it was in Bullard's >>>abduction catalog. Although loath to suggest it, why not look >>>this up for yourself. See why Bullard included it and see where >>>the abduction fit in. ><snip> >Look this was Kevin Randle's argument to cite this case when he >failed to show how a UFO or UFO abduction was even involved. He >has the obligation to prove his own points. So far he has >presented only a handful of purported cases (which I would argue >are not even genuine "UFO abductions" in the first place) to >support his Sleep Paralysis UFO Dream-like Abduction hypothesis. >That seems to be less than 1% of the 1,000+ UFO abduction cases >supposedly on record. I challenged Randle to back up his >nebulous statistical argument ("some cases" - well how many?) >with actual numbers and then you step in and call me "lazy" >because I won't do Randle's homework for him (or for you). >>Actually, the author of the study is allowed to define his >>terms, which is what Bullard did. If you have a quarrel with the >>methodology, I suggest you take it up with Bullard. >I have a quarrel with Randle's methodology in citing a few cases >from Bullard's catalog as if it automatically means every case >in Bullard's catalog is a classic genuine "UFO abduction" of the >type that is _most_difficult_ to explain in conventional terms. >We can waste everyone's time all day long with relatively easy >to explain UFO cases, including alleged UFO abductions, that are >nebulous, confused, borderline because poorly investigated or >borderline because of witness confusion (or both) or >indistinguishable from dreams and indeed occur during sleep. >Stan's point was that there were "literally hundreds of cases" >of UFO abductions "where the people aren't in bed, but are >driving, walking etc." or engaged in what he called "other non >horizontal activities" (meaning they were abducted by UFO's and >_not_ in bed "horizontal" at the time). If you can't explain >those cases then what's the point? I could talk all day long >about the handful of "UFO" sightings that could be mirages and >sun reflections off ice crystals in the sky, but which would >never pass a simple Hynek Screening for IFO-type explanations. >But anyway that discussion should be held on an IFO UpDates list >not the UFO UpDates list. Brad: My reference to "lazy" UFO mavens wasn't directed at you, even though it was in a response to you from Kevin Randle. (We all know you're an intrepid UFO investigator.) Randle made a point, about one or two cases, that seemed not to be actual alien abduction cases but, rather, related to sleep disorders. He, Randle, even stated several times that he wasn't eliminating by his citation of the seeming sleep paralysis episodes that all abduction cases could be thus explained. But I presume to speak for Mr. Randle, who is a far better expert in such matters than I, as one will find by reading his material on the subject at his blog: http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com But when one contests something here and the person who is being contested says "Go to the source to see for yourself where I got my information" then one should do just that - and not insist that the material be dragged to UFO UpDates in their entirety. (EBK has enough to do just to make sense of these listings, and noted as much a while back.) But let's see how Mr. Randle replies, since he's the real expert in this. And let me apologize for inferring you were lazy. You are the one of the most ambitious UFO investigators around, and have the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 The FBI Majestic Papers From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:23:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:47:47 -0400 Subject: The FBI Majestic Papers Somehow the link to the PDF file showing the FBI material on MJ-12 got bungled. So here's the link again:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches - Salla From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:06:56 -1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:51:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches - Salla >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:08:23 EDT >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >>Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research ><snip> >We've seen no "social science criteria" for "analyzing" data only >excuses for _not_ analyzing and applying critical thinking to >ludicrous and absurd stories from phony "whistleblowers" who >are just whistling in the wind with their crazy tales. Aloha Brad, and what sources do you use for your generalizations here? Each 'phony whistleblower' as you put it has an interesting tale to say which often lacks hard evidence to validate it. Such individuals often have strong military credentials with over twenty years service, eg., Robert Dean, Phillip Corso, Clifford Stone, are they phoney because the hard evidence can't be found to validate them or just difficult cases to analyse requiring more flexible criteria by investigators or (exo)political analysts? It doesn't take critical thinking to come up with generalizations, but it does take one to come up with specific objections to specific cases. ><snip> >Once again, it's the "national security agencies" (such as CIA) >who have "instructed" the "military" (USAF) to do the evil >deeds. Like the previous propaganda theme analysis I posted, we >see the continuing pattern here: CIA bad. Military good. I use 'national security agencies' as a generic term to cover the 'military' and civilian intelligences agencies such as the CIA. Basically, any agency, department or institution that focuses on national security fulls under the 'national security agencies' rubric. So I'm not distinguishing here between military departments and intelligence agencies, these can be distinguished on functional grounds but are all part of a network of instituions, departments and agencies whose job is national security. The distinction you claim I am making is a red herring. ><snip> >>initial US Air Force inquiry into the UFO sightings phenomenon, >>Project Sign, provided a conclusive statement confirming the ETH >Again, a clear statement that the USAF, the military, are the >good guys. The bad guys are the "national security agencies" >that suppressed and covered up the USAF's "conclusive" pro-ETH >statement. One can make all sorts of value judgements for particular agencies and departments based on specific actions. It is fact that a team of USAF air intelligence specialists doing the first thorough investigation of UFO's reached a conclusion favorable to the ETH, and then had this overturned by the Chief of the USAF, General Hoyt Vandenberg. You have still not answered my earlier post where I asked you to quote your sources that it wasn't Vandenberg that turned down the first Estimate of the Situation by the Project Sign team. ><snip> >Lots of talk about "tampering" and "tainting" of evidence and of >"distorting" and "discrediting" witnesses and evidence <snip> Interesting that you want to dismiss evidence of 'evidence tampering'. You are caught in a paradox here. Basically you seek hard evidence that 'hard evidence' is being tampered with, distorted, etc. If you apply a little logic here you'll see that your argument is inconsistent. You are mixing different levels of logical analysis. There is evidence that 'hard evidence' is being tampered with. This evidence is based on whistleblower testimonies, leaked Majestic documents and extant facts over military regulations such JANAP 146. Looking for hard evidence that hard evidence is being manipulated is a logical contradiction. That's fine for a faith based approach to UFO research, but not for a 'scientific' approach based on deductive reasononing. >Isn't that what one does by promoting >absurd stories of "Tall White" aliens running around on earth, >it "discredits" legitimate witnesses who are associated with >those telling the crazy tales? Again, generalizations. Have you or any of the veteran researchers investigated the Charles Hall case? Bill Hamilton had a cursory look into the case and raised some objections. I relayed the objections to Charles Hall and he replied in a post which I in turn relayed on to UFO updates. No response yet from Bill or other veteran researchers. Instead, you make dismissive comments based on your self-serving belief that alleged events such as the USAF and a race of 'Tall White' ETs working together at Nellis AFB have to be concocted. For the record, Hall is not the first to talk about 'Tall White' ETs. Robert Dean described such a case in his reading of a higly classified NATO study called the Assessment back in 1964 while he was on the briefing team of the Supreme Allied Commander of European forces. I think many UFO researchers are in deep denial that they could have been so wrong in their analyses over the years concerning evidence of collaboration between national security agencies (that includes the military!) and ET races. The Hall case is a wake up call. I hope you and others get it before the general public learn the truth and leave your reputations as UFO researchers in tatters.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:22:37 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:55:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Smith >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >I assume you wanted me to answer these. See in text. Thanks for replying. >>1) From the witness statement, "...That same evening, I sat at >>the typewriter and wrote out everything, time, date, place, and >>mission, plus all the names I could remember of who were there >>with all the facts concerning the incident, and asked Jim Baker >>to read it and sign it. He read it and signed it on condition >>that I would give him a copy of the report. I went to the >>copier, and made six complete copies of the report and gave Jim >>one of them. .... I asked him (Jim Baker) if he still had his >>report hidden away and he told me he had actually burned his >>copy, but had given a copy to another friend from West Virginia >>who wanted it." >I'm pretty sure he would if he knew where that copy was. As >mentioned, Baker gave it to someone in West Virginia. Before I drop this part of the matter forever, I just want to say that it seems mighty odd that he made SIX copies of the report and lost FIVE of them. And he has to rely on good ole Jim Baker for the ONE copy he had gotten. >>If he isn't interested in that, then why doesn't he at least >>check to see what the times are so a detailed scouring of the >>NASA imagery/audio data can occur? >I don't think he has any way of doing that. Again it would have >been handy if he'd had that letter which had the times and >dates. Well, I just assumed that if he had been so interested in it, then I thought he might have used his contacts at NASA to get a copy of the tape. Or use the FOIA. But I suppose thats all to much to ask people. Some people want others to do all the legwork. >>2) Rover video cameras: >>If he has such a statement as mentioned in #1 to refresh his >>memory, can he explain why he thought there were TWO video >>cameras on the Moon for that mission instead of only 1. (there >>is no place to put another video camera on the rover!). No >>second video camera exists in any mission on the surface! >There were two cameras on the rover, one video in the left front >and the other a 16 mm movie camera which was mounted on a >shorter post in the mid right rear of the Lunar rover. The >latter could not have shot video pictures Yes, I know about the 16m camera you are talking about. But my statements were about VIDEO cameras. The 16mm camera you are referring to was the DAC which COULD take 1 or 6 or 12 or 24 frames/second, but this was on FILM and needed to wait until return to Earth to be processed. The only video camera on the surface was the one rover video camera. So there was no way to get two video camera coverages with one video camera! >>3) Have you or anyone on the List gotten the DVD of the Apollo >>15 mission and viewed _all_ the footage when they were at >>Hadley's Rille to see what the witness _might_ be talking about? >I wasn't aware that there was a DVD. It would have to have been >the raw feed from the rover and not the stuff CBS was getting >which could be cut at will in Houston. Anyone can get the DVDs from spacecraftfilms.com. Youy have raised another issue of getting raw feeds directly. I am not familiar with that. I cannot see how anyone except the Soviets could have picked up the rover signals and played them. I thought the signal would go to some big dish antenna under NASA or the military control and be sent out to/controlled by NASA Houston because there _is_ personal stuff related to health/medical issues and hygiene going on that are private and should not go out for the world to see. Gaps should be apparent I would think during an EVA. >>4)"Astronauts were in Hadley's Rille." >>Although the rover is 30-40 yards from the edge, I wonder how >>he knows they were "in Hadley's Rille" and "over the edge". >I don't think they [the astronauts] were in Hadley Rill. This >might have occurred during EVA 2 excursion at Station 6. To most >people regardless where the astronauts were on this mission the >were "in" Hadley Rill. These fire specialists probably thought >the same thing. Okay, I'll cut him some slack. >I cannot see or find where they tried to go "over the edge". >The video I can find does not show this happening. They >"disappear" by moving behind the camera field of view. I do find >where one astronaut falls at 165:32:01 but not down the Rille. >Again, that was in the small crater at Station 6. Look, there were two falls. >From "APOLLO 15 Time and Motion Study Final Report": "CDR Scott's Fall At Station #6 This fall occurred at GMT 213:14:02:00 (GET 6:00:28:00) at Station #6 during the second EVA. LMP Irwin has just dug a trench near the edge of a small crater. CDR Scott is photographing the trench. CDR Scott walks near the rim of the crater with the camera mounted and carrying the tongs; he proceeds without any problem until he is near the trenching site. At that point he takes a short hop and steps onto the inside slope of the rim. This slope is unexpectedly soft and he loses his balance and starts falling forward and to the left. With both arms extended to breakthe fall, he lands on his left side. He turns clockwise until he is sitting on the ground and then turns counterclockwise until he is kneeling on the ground. He does not attempt to get up by himself; instead he stays on his knees with his left hand on the ground and his right arm extended overhead and waits for the LMP to help him." CDR's Fall At Station 9A This fall occurred at GMT 214:11:06:28 (GET 6:21:32:28) during the third lunar EVA. CDR Scott and LMP Irwin are at Station 9A describing the area and Scott is taking photographs. The CDR begins moving toward a new area as he gives the camera reading and summarizes the description of the area. He steps around a group of rock fragments and then his right foot steps into a small depression and he begins to lose his balance. As he steps with his left foot, it slides off a small rock and continues sliding on the loose surface soil. While trying to drive his feet back under his center of gravity, Scott increases his forward velocity. He then falls forward with both hands extended to break the fall. Landing on his left side, he rolls counterclockwise and on his back and is then out of view of the TV camera." Interestingly,the second fall was considered an "emergency" by inference of the time/motion guys based on the observed astronauts motion. �Station #9A...LMP moving to aid CDR after fall.... Since this constituted what might have been an emergency, it is assumed that LMP moved as rapidly as possible.� I don't see much where things were considered emergencies in post-facto reports. I wonder if during real time there were more emergencies except they were soon considered not emergencies and thus forgotten. >>5) Regarding the "crypto" room, I would like to know if Oberg >>heard of such a room. >Don't know. Had you Jim? Mr.Oberg replies: "I've been passing the story around to people who were there, and the universal reaction is that the story is some sort of delusion or deception. The man who ran the TV camera on the LRV, Ed Fendell ("Captain Video"), simply said 'B- --S---" and suggested I had too much spare time on my hands. Two scientists who were in the science support room told me unequivocally that controllers never left their stations during any spacewalks, and the FCR (the main MCC room) was never evacuated at any time during any Apollo mission. Richard Nieber, the young cop mentioned in the story, is still at JSC and has been a long-time buddy of mine (fellow brooklyn emigrants), and has no idea why the tale teller would have said what he did, because Nieber has no recollection of anything like this. Add to it the fundamental hardware problem that there are not TWO but only ONE tv cameras on the rover, and it's pretty overwhelming case that the story as recounted has minimal chance of being even remotely real. Please post this over at UFO Updates on the continuing thread there. " >>Why wouldn't the UFOs on the wall >>just be advanced concepts/artist renderings/model photos? Given >>the state of relations with the Soviets, security made sense. >Yeah, but why have UFO pictures on the wall in the first place. We already know the witness was not technical expert, thus the UFOs could just as easily be advanced Soviet, US conceptual images, artist renderings, maybe even prototypes. They are only UFOs if they are unidentified by the witness, they may just be prosaic advanced concept humdrum space vehicles that the witness knows nothing about since he is just Joe Public. >>Why at NASA. If true, there's a story in there somewhere. If the >>area was supposed to be secure, I see no reason why they >>wouldn't be on the wall as you had a problem with above, if >>there was some reason why NASA,or more likely some department of >>the air force was taking them seriously. Because the first thing about security is you don't keep your secrets on the wall after you look at them! >>Also, it is implied by Mr. Ledger that the ability for the Mars >>rovers to outlast their design life was possibly due to alien >>intervention. >No I didn't. I was suggesting that the rover's camera be panned >around to see if there was a roll of paper towel and a bottle of >Windex in sight. It was funny - or supposed to be. Oh yes, I liked that part, it was cute. >>I think it is too not extreme to presume this since dust devils >>occur on Mars (we KNOW there are dust storms, so the the >>atmosphere CAN be turbulent) and are the most reasonable >>explanation for the cleaning of the solar arrays. >Or possible due to the extremely dry atmosphere where a static >charge might build up enough potential to spontaneously >discharge off the solar arrays repelling the dust. Just a >theory, but certainly the obvious culprit is the Martian winds. Sure, right on. >>It was also implied during the program that it was "mysterious" >>why we did not go back to the Moon or why we stopped. >I've no doubt of the political interference and the timidity of >the average politician when faced with the albatross of inner >city welfare problems and the "war' on poverty, etc. Also the >Vietnam war was going on through the whole of the Apollo program >that was eating up much of the American budget-never mind the >ongoing "Cold War" The Apollo missions and the manned space >program to the Moon ended two years before that war. War is >apparently more important than space exploration. >Someone made damn sure though that they didn't go back to the >Moon in the near future. Like the Avro Arrow, the Saturn 5
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:13:48 -1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:58:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - >From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:47:41 -0500 >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >>Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >>Science and Faith Based Approaches to UFO Research ><snip> >Dr. Salla, >I am a relative newcomer to the public UFO effort, having lurked >around the community now for nigh on a decade. As you do >cogently point out, there often is a two-camp nature to Ufology: >The Conspiracy Theorists and the Scientists. Aloha Craig, Terminology is important. It's perhaps better to describe the two camps as 'political realists' and 'nuts and bolts specialists'. Both use legitimate methodologies appropriate from the social and physical sciences. The debate is often framed in terms of who has greater fidelity to 'hard evidence' and therefore as a corollary is more scientific. This is illusory as I've said due to the distortion that is happening in the UFO field. My argument is that those who don't consider this distortion are really following a faith based approach to UFOs and not conducting a scientific enquiry at all. >Now, don't get me wrong. I don't discount the value of pondering >and trying to unravel possible conspiracies against the >otherwise very open field of UFO study. I have serious doubts >about what the official lines from the governments really >signifies, and everyone must carry a mammoth grain of salt to >deal with it all. >But, you propose that it is a zero-sum game. That's just not the >case. That's a good point. I don't believe in zero-sum games myself. So I'm definitely open to combining the two approaches. >I think the insistence of "hard evidence" is of the greatest >importance to deriving the truth of the UFO phenomenon, all >outside interference not withstanding. That's where I have to disagree. It's an illusion to point to one aspect in the investigatory process, ie., hard evidence, and make it the necessary condition for truth about the UFO phenonemon. That's politically very naive given the reams of evidence that manipulation, removal of hard evidence and witness discrediting/intimidation is occuring, and that national security agencies have been getting away with it for over five decades. 'Hard evidence' at best is a 'facilitating condition' for truth, not a necessary condition at all. This means a rigorous scientific enquiry can be conducted without 'hard evidence', though I agree that it eases things considerably if hard evidence is present. >Even if what was hidden >was exposed to the light of day, without hard data to back up >the exposure it would remain unconvincing and thus easily re- >suppressed, leaving an even tougher nut to crack later on. After >all, isn't it much easier to ridicule and marginalize something >that has been successfully so treated in the past? Many political scientists focus on legitimating discourses that are subject to networks of power that sustain political and economic systems. Hard data is just one aspect of this legitimating discourse. If political elites wanted to dream up a new ideology that sustains certain social and economic practices, they could do so easily without hard facts to back them. So we need to focus on the legitimating discourses that contextualise social, political and economic processes associated with the UFO phenomenon. The dismissal of the ETH is part of a legitimating discourse that enables a hidden infrastructure of black projects that deal with ETs to continue without oversight by elected representatives and the general public. A very dangerous practice as basically the best people' are not involved in determining policies concerning the UFO/ET phenomenon. >With that in mind, hard science, physical data, firm analysis - >It is ALL crucial to discovery. As I said earlier, 'hard science', 'physical data' are facilitating conditions to truth about the UFO phenomenon. We are not in the realm of pure science when it comes to UFOs. It has tremendous national security implications so we need to look at the national security/political processes that mask what is really happening with the UFO phenomenon and that interfere in the data collection and analysis process. >Beyond that, there are an abundance of witness reports yearly >and investigations thereof that are in no way under government >purview, and thus unaffected by past cover-ups and the like. >Prompt and serious attention to new reports will maintain the >integrity of the pool of raw data like no other activity can. >The physical and sociological approaches need not be in competition. I agree with your point that the physical and sociological/political approaches need not be in competition. There needs to be the correct balance and emphasis. Unfortunately, UFO research has been dominated by those using physical sciences methodologies, this needs to be corrected. Finding a way of harmonizing these contrasting approaches is important and I'm thankful you are encouraging this.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Rogerson From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:40:40 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:06:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Rogerson >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:06:02 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:22:22 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:03:31 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >We can waste everyone's time all day long with relatively easy >to explain UFO cases, including alleged UFO abductions, that are >nebulous, confused, borderline because poorly investigated or >borderline because of witness confusion (or both) or >indistinguishable from dreams and indeed occur during sleep. >Stan's point was that there were "literally hundreds of cases" >of UFO abductions "where the people aren't in bed, but are >driving, walking etc." or engaged in what he called "other non >horizontal activities" (meaning they were abducted by UFO's and >_not_ in bed "horizontal" at the time). If you can't explain >those cases then what's the point? I could talk all day long >about the handful of "UFO" sightings that could be mirages and >sun reflections off ice crystals in the sky, but which would >never pass a simple Hynek Screening for IFO-type explanations. >But anyway that discussion should be held on an IFO UpDates list >not the UFO UpDates list. Brad What on earth makes you think that people have to be horizontal in order fall asleep. Drivers falling asleep at the wheel is a well known traffic hazard, see for example: http://www.awakeltd.info/news_resources/news_article.asp?nid=16 In the Selby train disaster a guy falling asleep at the wheel of his vehicle crashed it on to a rail track and derailed a train killing 13 people. I don't recall many people claiming to be abducted from busy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:26:11 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:27:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Balaskas >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission <snip> >>3) Have you or anyone on the List gotten the DVD of the Apollo >>15 mission and viewed _all_ the footage when they were at >>Hadley's Rille to see what the witness _might_ be talking about? >I wasn't aware that the was a DVD. It would have to have been >the raw deed from the rover and not the stuff CBS was getting >which could be cut at will in Houston. Hi Don and James! Shortly after reading this interesting but anecdotal account on UFO UpDates, I spent a few days carefully reading through my personal copy of 'Apollo 15 - The NASA Mission Reports', Vol. 1 (Apogee Books) that was compiled from actual NASA archives by Robert Godwin. Although this book contains an overwhelming amount of technicial diagrams and text and comes with a CDROM (see URL below), including full transcripts of the technical crew debriefings of their EVA to Hadley's Rille, I found nothing to substantiate what this former NASA employee claimed regarding UFOs or evidence of alien activity around the Apollo 15 landing site. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jan/m13-007.shtml Robert Godwin, the editor of this volume, was interviewed on 'Strange Days... Indeed' back in January 12, 2002 after his 'Apollo 11 - The NASA Mission Reports', Vol. 1 had been published. This volume also had complete transcripts of the astronaut debriefings which includes their sighting of a UFO during their trajectory towards the Moon. >>4) From his statement: >>"Astronauts were in Hadley's Rille. They couldn't be seen >>because they were over the edge, down in the Rille itself. The >>Lunar Rover was about thirty, maybe forty or more yards from the >>edge, and had the left front camera on the spot where the >>Astronauts had disappeared. " >>Although the rover is 30-40 yards from the edge, I wonder how >>he knows they were "in Hadley's Rille" and "over the edge". >I don't think they [the astronauts] were in Hadley Rill. This >might have occurred during EVA 2 excursion at Station 6. To most >people regardless where the astronauts were on this mission the >were "in" Hadley Rill. These fire specialists probably thought >the same thing. I also re-read my copy of the 'National Geographic' (September 1973) which contained the article 'What Is It Like To Walk On The Moon' by Apollo 15 Commander David R. Scott (he says he fell down several times) and I contacted a close friend who had joined the other Apollo 15 moonwalker, Jim Irwin, on several expeditions to Mount Ararat in search of Noah's Ark for any hints of an encounter with an alien intelligence on the Moon but came up with nothing in support of this story by the former NASA employee. Even if it is established that a "crypto" room did exist which had restricted entry and that there were pictures of UFOs or spacecraft (real or from science fiction) adorning this
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:30:31 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:29:22 -0400 Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? - Balaskas >From: William Weber <wweber1.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:49:23 -0400 >Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:29:16 -0400 >>Subject: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>I'm just going to put this out there because I think I have to. >>However, I will not debate the value or validity of the >>material. I firmly believe this is _strong_ evidence for UFOs >>being _intelligently_ guided and makes a strong case for the >>reality the abductees have testifying about for decades. >>See for yourself: >>http://www.virtuallystrange.com/aic/formation.html >>Ladies and gents, you are cordially invited to make of this what >>you will. As I said, I consider it compelling evidence. I am >>dead certain others will consider it the product of a fevered >>imagination. >Take a look at the third paragraph, below, that mentions a >'Z-shaped' formation. This seems at least somewhat similar to >what you've described and placed in the graphic. Hi John and Bill! Although people do see order in random patterns, they do not always see the same thing. What one sees as a 'Z-shaped' pattern using a selective number of dots, another may see an Orthodox cross or a German swastika when more of the dots are taken into account. Would this imply that the later interpretations are better than the former? Not necessarily - they could all be wrong. One summer while driving I noticed a dark disk shaped mass rapidly moving across the highway at the horizon. It slowly changed shape and direction as if it was under intelligent control. As I approached closer I was amazed when this UFO turned out to be a dense flock of hundreds or thousands of black birds! With the warmer temperatures and the longer days, people are staying outdoors longer enjoying the Spring weather. With the melted snow and April showers, many white birds (seagulls?) can be seen flying high above our temporary "wetlands" here. Their appearance is identical to the changing pattern of bright white dots in that single interesting video frame that John brought to our attention and the orange lights (which could also be of high flying birds catching the last rays of the Sun which has set below the horizon) in the example that Bill presented. As these birds change direction, they get brighter or dimmer, sometimes seeming to turn-off and disappear altogether in the bright daylight sky. While observing them maneuver in the sky it it is not hard to convince oneself that these are not birds but ET craft going through a choreographed aerial dance. Since these high altitude birds are not all flying in the same plane or level, if they do momentarily spell out "UFO", other witnesses a few hundred meters away would see just a random pattern of dots. So if UFOs (or birds) are indeed communicating to us via "OVNI skywriting", by flying at different altitudes it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 15 From: John Hayes <John.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:02:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:35:22 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 15 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan.nul> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 10, Number 15 April 13, 2005 Editor: Joseph Trainor E-mail: Masinaigan.nul Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup MYSTERIOUS BLUE BEAM SEEN OVER URUGUAY "Witnesses at Colonia de Sacramento" in Uruguay, a small country in South America, "said a powerful beam of light was seen in the heavens. The hypothesis was put forth by a military man on Radio 10" in Montevideo, the national capital. "Uruguayans are still wondering what it was. The hitherto unexplained event occurred in recent days." "Residents of Puerto Sauce and Colonia de Sacramento claim having seen 'a very intense beam of light that appeared suddenly in the heavens.' They also claim that there was a deafening sound and the windows rattled in the community's homes." "In an interview with Radio 10, Colonel Jose Luis Vignoli, press officer for the Fuerza Aerea Urugayense (FAU or Uruguayan Air Force--J.T.) said that 'a missile was involved.'" Col. Vignoli "said 'the control tower at Carrasco Airport received signals from two airliners.' One of the pilots, a Lufthansa captain, reported seeing a luminous object." "The (Lufthansa) airliner had taken off from Ezeiza International Airport near Buenos Aires," the capital of Argentina, "and was in the vicinity of Carrasco. The pilot contacted the tower again, describing the object as 'very luminous' and as if 'resembling a fireball.'" (Editor's Note: Ezeiza Airport in Argentina is 200 kilometers or 120 miles west of Carrasco Airport in Uruguay.) "Later on, another aircraft--a courier flight by an FAU pilot--also reported a luminous object crossing the heavens." "This pilot reported seeing 'an intense reflection against the waters of the Rio de la Plata,'" the freshwater estuary that lies between Montevideo and Buenos Aires, "and that it could be a rocket or missile. The other pilot described types of flames in an ascending direction." "The second pilot also said that the flames could be from the afterburner of another (jet) aircraft. Afterburners enable pilots to obtain maximum acceleration in a matter of seconds." "It is based on these descriptions that the FAU believes that the unknown object 'could be a missle.' This merely deepens the mystery because Uruguay has neither missiles nor launch facilities." "Col. Vignoli explained on Radio 10: 'We can neither confirm nor affirm anything at this time,' rejecting the possibility that it could be related to 'matters extraterrestrial.'" Colonia de Sacramento is located about 160 kilometers (100 miles) west of Montevideo. (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Christian Quintero del grupo Planeta UFO para estas noticias.) (Editor's Comment: Welcome to South America, Take it Away Week here at UFO Roundup. The current flap began with the abduction last week of Vanderlei Rodrigues dos Santos in Brazil's southernmost state of Rio Grande do Sul. Now it's spread into neighboring Uruguay and northeastern Argentina.) UFOs SIGHTED BY MANY IN NORTHEASTERN ARGENTINA On Wednesday, April 6, 2005, TV Canal (Channel) 13 in Buenos Aires, the capital of Argentina conducted an interview with Capt. Alvaro Castillo of the Fuerza Aerea Uruguayense (FAU or Uruguayan Air Force--J.T.) about the recent UFO sightings in Uruguay's southern coastal region. "He spoke of 'a missile or a downed combat aircraft'" as being the cause. "Meanwhile, UFOs were seen in Concordia," a medium- sized city in Argentina's Entre Rios province, right on the border with Uruguay. On Tuesday night, April 5, 2005, "volunteer firefighters in Villa Zorraquir," a town 20 kilometers (12 miles) north of Concordia, "picked up a distress call on VHF radio from an aircraft identifying itself with three numerals. They immediately contacted the control tower at Comodoro Pierresteguy Airport, and the Fuerza Aerea Argentinera (FAA or Argentinian Air Force--J.T.) requested reports from all of the airports in the region. But no flight with Concordia as its destination was confirmed." "Residents of Salto," Concordia's neighboring city across the border in Uruguay, "claimed to have seen 'an airplane is distress' flying at a low altitude over their city." "A police detachment in Concordia in Entre Rios received reports of an alleged missile or aircraft in the vicinity of Termas Vertientes de la Concordia that was using a high-powered searchlight. Reports of the mysterious aircraft were received from that vicinity at 11:50 p.m. last night (Tuesday, April 5, 2005)." "The FAA requested information from all airports in the province as to when an aircraft bound for Concordia could have been seen. This information was forwarded to the Third Aerial Brigade, headquartered at Parana. No plane had departed in the direction of Concordia. The three numerals of its call sign suggested that it could be an experimental (FAA) plane." "A news crew from TV Canal (Channel) 5 set out immediately for the thermal baths in that location, ascertaining that neither the employees of the baths nor the tourists visiting there had witnessed the crash of the alleged airplane." "Police officers, after combing the thermal baths and their vicinity, decided to return to their stations after alerting the Carabineros (Argentinian national police-- J.T.) to be alert to the possible appearance of 'a phantom aircraft'" over the Rio Uruguay valley. Concordia is located 400 kilometers (250 miles) north of Buenos Aires, the capital of Argentina. Its neighbor, Salto, is located 480 kilometers (300 miles) northwest of Montevideo, the capital of Uruguay. (See the Argentinian newspaper El Sol Matutino for April 6, 2005, "Phantom aircraft crashes?" Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Christian Quintero para esto articulo de diario.) ANIMAL MUTILATIONS REPORTED IN LA PAMPA On Monday, April 4, 2005, "a mutilated cat was found on an estancia (country estate--J.T.)" in rural La Pampa province, Argentina, about 640 kilometers (400 miles) southwest of Buenos Aires, the national capital. "Just before the carcass was found, the witnesses allegedly saw strange lights in the sky and heard guttural sounds resembling 'the sound of the wind,' after which she (the owner--J.T.) found the mutilated pet." According to Argentinian ufologist Raul Oscar Chaves, La Pampa has been plagued with animal mutilations for the past month. "A while ago, we learned that ten mutilated cows had been discovered here in the province," Raul reported, "The most startling impact is that crop circles were found in the pasture, and all of the cows appeared in one circle, with their heads pointing towards the center of the circle." Raul added that members of CIUFOS-La Pampa visited the site of the cattle mutilation and undertook a detailed survey of the scene. (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Raul Oscar Chaves para estas noticias.) DAYLIGHT DISCS ON VIDEO IN CULIACAN, MEXICO Daylight disc UFOs flying over the city of Culiacan in Mexico's state of Sinaloa were captured on videotape by Juan Antonio Lopez, a local resident. Lopez "managed to obtain excellent footage of the UFOs over his city," Mexican ufologist Ana Luisa Cid Fernandez reported. "Upon viewing the video, strange shining structures can be seen moving around at high speed." Culiacan is 460 kilometers (276 miles) northwest of Mexico City. The Culiacan sighting is just the latest in a series of recent encounters in Mexico. On Sunday, March 20, 2005, Prof. Cid "photographed a spherical silver UFO over Tlalnepantla," a suburb 10 kilometers (6 miles) north of Mexico City. "Days later, she discovered a police helicopter in the photo." The helicopter "was flying at low altitude to monitor a disturbance of some area street peddlers. The UFO became apparent when she doubled the size of the photo." On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, "according to a report by aircraft technician Alfonso Salazar, Radio Rojo News reported that a spherical UFO had been reported hovering motionless over Tlalnepantla. The news report was made by Jorge Flores, a reporter for Radio Rojo, and Guadalupe Juarez, a reporter on Radio Rojo's nighttime news hour." The following day, Wednesday, March 23, 2005, Salazar and another Mexican ufologist, Carlos Guzman, were interviewed about the Tlalnepantla sightings by Radio Rojo. On Thursday, March 24, 2005, "Sra. Malena Mendieta told Prof. Cid that she had witnessed 'strange low-flying lights' near her home in the barrio Patera Vallejo (neighborhood) north of Mexico City. The lights emitted a buzzing sound that surprised Sra. Mendieta greatly. This sighting took place during the early morning hours, and she was in the company of her daughter." During a skywatch on Friday, March 25, 2005, Mexican ufologists Alfonso Salazar and Salvador Guerrero "manged to observe and record on video a spherical object on the east side of Mexico City. The UFO suddenly shifted speed and embarked on a new trajectory at the exact moment the (Good Friday reenactment of the) Crucifixion was being executed in Ixtapalapa." On Saturday, March 26, 2005, "an amateur television cameraman captured video of a spherical object emitting white lights in Mexico City's northern region, flying at high altitude from south to north," according to ufologist Alfonso Salazar. (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Ana Luisa Cid Fernandez para estas noticias.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home- -UFO Roundup." See you next time. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2005 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/submit/sightings.shtml -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The NASA Moon Photos - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:16:19 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:37:24 -0400 Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos - Sparks >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:19:51 +0100 >Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >>From: Simon Hicks <slh.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:30:51 +0800 >>Subject: The NASA Moon Photos >>Source: Palyne 'PJ' Gaenir's Fire Docs Collections http://www.firedocs.com/anomalous/NASA-moon-photos-saccheri-leonard.html >>The NASA Moon Photos >>My Story Of Dealing With NASA In The 1970's >>by >>Vito Saccheri <snip> >>Leonard had mentioned that the photos were >>numbered sequentially by the cameras. He also had mentioned >>that each time the on-board computer analyzing a photo picked >>up an anomaly, it triggered a sequence of additional photos that >>zoomed in on the target closer and closer. >Real-time image analysis, "anomaly" detection, and autonomous >decision-making by "on-board computer"? In the 1970s? I'd like to >hear what James Smith has to say about that! Not only that but they spun out a wild CIA conspiracy scenario of the NASA bureaucracy covering up the Apollo missions because they heard mention of "Langley" and "Virginia" at NASA. They were completely ignorant of the fact that NASA has a major operation called NASA "Langley" Research Center in Virginia, which has been a major aeronautical laboratory since 1917, long before NASA was even established. But NASA Langley is in Hampton, Va., near Newport News and Norfolk, which is 150+ miles from CIA HQ in Langley, Va. In the early 70's I got to read something like 140,000 pages of Apollo mission transcripts at NASA looking for anomalies and UFO's being reported and I never saw anything like what these guys claimed. I don't see how in just a few minutes' time they
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 [UASR] Ancient Airplanes From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:09:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:41:25 -0400 Subject: [UASR] Ancient Airplanes ----- To: starfriends.nul From: Jason Martell <jason.nul> Subject: [UASR]> Ancient Airplanes Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:43:43 -0700 ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ [U A S R]> UFOs-, ALIENs-, SPACE- RESEARCH MAILING LIST <[U A S R] ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~ Flight has been the dream of humankind since they watched in awe as birds soared effortlessly through the sky. But, according to accepted history, it wasn't until the 1780s that two Frenchmen achieved lighter-than-air flight when they were lifted into the air in a hot air balloon near Paris. Then powered, heavier-than- air flight became the goal. And although it was theorized that heavier-than-air flight was possible as early as the 13th century, and in the 16th century Leonardo da Vinci designed winged aircraft and a crude kind of helicopter, it wasn't until the Wright brothers made their first successful flights at Kitty Hawk in 1903 that powered flight became a reality. That's the widely accepted history. Some researchers and a few rogue scientists believe there's evidence to suggest that humans achieved flight earlier in history - much earlier... so early, they say, that the knowledge of this technology has been lost and ancient stories that recount adventures of human flight have been relegated only to myth. Is it possible that humans developed the technology to fly in early civilizations - or in civilizations that are now lost to history? Let's take a look at what some call the evidence - intriguing artifacts, carvings, inscriptions and legends - that they say point to the true record human of flight.Colombia Airplane Models This object (shown in sketch) was found in 1898 in a tomb at Saqquara, Egypt and was later dated as having been created near 200 BCE. As airplanes were unknown in the days when it was found, it was thrown into a box marked "wooden bird model" and then stored in the basement of the Cairo museum. It was rediscovered by Dr. Khalil Messiha, who studied models made by ancients. The "discovery" was considered so important by the Egyptian government that a special committee of leading scientists was established to study the object. As a result of their findings, a special exhibit was set up in the center hall of the Cairo museum, with the little model as its centerpiece. It was even labelled as a model airplane. To elucidate the reasons for the decision of the committee, almost unprecedented in the field of archeology, let's consider some aspects of the model. The model has the exact proportions of a very advanced form of "pusher-glider" that is still having "some bugs ironed out". This type of glider will stay in the air almost by itself=97even a very small engine will keep it going at low speeds, as low as 45 to 65 mph., while it can carry an enormous payload. This ability is dependent on the curious shape of wings and their proportions. The tipping of wings downward, a reversedihedral wing as it is called, is the feature behind this capability. A similar type of curving wings are implemented on the Concorde airplane, giving the plane a maximum lift without detracting from its speed. In that context, it seems rather incredible that someone, more than 2,000 years ago, for any reason, devised a model of a flying device with such advanced features, requiring quite extensive knowledge of aerodynamics. There were no such things as airplanes in these times, we are told by archeologists and historians. But this case seems to be an exception, living in the midst of the rather unimaginative and rigid paradigm of contemporary science. It is also necessary to point out that Egyptians are known to have nearly always made scale-models of projects and objects which they planned to create or build. Precolombian Airplane Models Is the concept of an airplane limited to Egypt? That doesn't seem to be the case. Gold trinkets were found in an area covering Central America and coastal areas of South America, estimated to belong to a period between 500 and 800 CE, but since they are made from gold, accurate dating is impossible and based essentially on stratigraphy which may be deceptive. However, we can safely say that these gold objects are more than 1000 years old. Whatever this object is supposed to be or represent, its remarkable resemblance to a modern aircraft or spacecraft is uncanny. As seen from the pictures, the shape of the sample object is rather ambiguous. The archaeologists labelled these objects as zoomorphic, meaning, animal shaped objects. The question is, what animal do they represent? When we compare these with other objects from the same cultures depicting animals, a curious facet of the comparison would be obvious: the other objects are recognizable, rendered usually with a great accuracy and attention to realistic detail. There are several types of animals which fly=97birds, insects, and several mammals, such as bats and some gliders, for instance flying squirrels, oppossums, and then there are some lizards; there are also some fish which for brief periods glide through the air. There are water animals which seem to fly through the water, such as rays, skates and some selachians. But how does the depicted object compare with these choices? All its features taken into a consideration, we have no match. Seen from above, the object obviously has no fish features, but seems to show rather explicitly mechanistic ones. The structures just in front of the tail are strongly reminiscent of elevons (a combination of ailerons and elevators) with a slight forward curve, but they are attached to the fuselage, rather than the wings. In any case, they look more like airplane parts than like the claspers of a fish. If the two prominent spirals on the wings are supposed to be a stylized version of the eyes of a ray, then what are the two globular objects positioned on the head supposed to represent? To complicate the identification even more, the spirals on the wings have their copies positioned on the nose of the object, in the opposite direction. When the object is viewed in profile, the didsimilarity to anything from the animal kingdom is even more pronounced. If the zoomorphic explanation is supposed to hold, then why did the artist cut the head off almost three quarters from the body? And why is the nose is practically rectangular and the cut tilted forward, with eyes positioned at either side, when fish eyes are usually more near the center of bodyline and far forward on the head? What we can make of the semicircular grooves on the inside of the cut? What is it supposed to be=97fishwise? And what about the scoop, forward and under the cut? It is a scoop, not just a ridge for drilling a hole through to place the object on a necklace chain. Then there is another rectangular feature, positioned further back at the approximate center of gravity under the fuselage. The wings when viewed from the side are perfetly horizontal, but when seen from the front, they curve slightly downward. The elevators, which are right behind the wings, are positioned on a slightly higher horizontal level and are square-ended, thus a definite geometric shape. Above them is another rectangular shape, with a relief which may be reminiscent of knobs. The tail is equally intriguing. No fish has only a single, upright and perpendicular flange. But this tail fin has an exact shape of fins on modern airplanes. There are also some markings on the tail which are hard to identify, but it does not seem to be anything related to animals, either. When all the features are taken into an account, the object does not look like a representation of any known animal at all, but does look astonishingly like an airplane. The photos and enlarged outline of the object has been submitted for an analysis to several people from the field of aerodynamics. One of them was Arthur Young, a designer of Bell helicopters and other aircraft. His analysis confirmed that the object contains many features which would fit the airplane hypothesis, but there were several ones which would not fit that scenario. Wings do seem to be in the wrong place=97they should be further forward so that their 1/4-chord coincides with the center of gravity. The nose is not like anything on airplanes, as well. So, while the object is suggesting an airplane, some features would not seem to support this hypothesis. But let's entertain several possibilities. If we imagine that the separation after the windshield is not a cockpit and that the pilot and the cargo were located somewhere in the main fuselage body, then we can envision the nose as something else. Let's assume that the nose is actually a jet. If the machine needs to slow down, the jet flow directed against the path of flight would accomplish just that. But how to redirect the jet into the opposite direction? If we envision the nose as a movable part of the plane, turning around the point located where the nose and fuselage meet, thus pivoting the nose downward to tuck it under the fuselage, that would enable the desired effect. What's more, it will re-adjust the center of gravity and the wings would be just in the right place for a high powered flight. Another problem, though, will appear and that is the drag which would be created by the back of the nose now positioned in front. But that can be attributed to artistic license. That seems to be the case, because several other similar planes feature the back part of the nose tilted more forward, so the angle of the back of the nose when pivoted is more corresponding to aerodynamic principles. All things considered, the object seems to represent a convertible type of craft, with two possible configurations=97one for ascent when the nose is facing backwards, and the other for descent with the nose facing forward. One unsolved item remains=97the spirals on the both wings and the nose. According to Amerindian iconography, these spirals have discernable meaning=97they represent ascending and descending, depending on whether they are right-oriented or left-oriented, respectively. As the spirals are not only on wings but also on the nose, the meaning is fairly obvious=97the wings and the nose (as much) were the features which were directly involved in ascent and descent. There are other cultures which mention flying vehicles of some sort or another. The most known of these sources are Indian epics, especially the Mahabharata and other Vedic sources as Bhagavata Purana and Ramayana. The flying devices were called vimanas and were extensively discussed in Vaimanika Shastra, describing multitude of machines with different purposes and capabilities. Other source of information about flying machines may be considered, such as the Bible and some apocryphal works. The book of Ezekiel seems to be describing the close encounter of a man from a non-technological culture with a device which to him must have been miraculous. We have to put ourselves into his shoes to comprehend his astonishment and the otherworldness of his encounter. The limited scope of knowledge of the world around him, his primitive environment, dictated the language and conceptual framework with which he tried to capture his encounter for fellow tribesmen. For him it seemed that he encountered The God, with his suite of angels, because in his simple world, there was no other interpretation. It is not necessary to reach for an alien type of scenario to explain the encounter; we can entertain a possibility that a remnant of an advanced civilization was still present, in a limited scope, at the time of Ezekiel. But for some, the encounter bears uncanny similarity to the modern-day encounters with UFO's. Another source of similar material is the Book of Enoch, particularly the Slavic version, which contains some parts which the Greek version is missing. The book not only describes flying in the air, but also through outer space, including the relativistic effects mentioned=97Enoch spent several days on a spacecraft, but when he returned to Earth, several centuries had passed by. There is no shortage of descriptions of flying machines in ancient sources. If we try to extract the core of myths of different provenience and remove the embellishments, we discover to our surprise that flying in ancient times seems to be the rule, not the exception.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 (SK/GOMC) Our Incredible Shrinking Curiosity From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:23:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:16:12 -0400 Subject: (SK/GOMC) Our Incredible Shrinking Curiosity Source: The Washington Post http://tinyurl.com/6bav5 Sunday, April 10, 2005 Page B01 Our Incredible Shrinking Curiosity By Rick Weiss Washington Post "Bones, there's a - thing - out there," Captain James T. Kirk says to starship physician Leonard McCoy in the 1979 film, "Star Trek: The Motion Picture." That "thing," it turns out, is a huge cloud of intelligence with some kind of object at its core - an object that calls itself "Veeger." "Veeger" - actually "V . . . ger" - proves to be the spacecraft Voyager, launched from Earth some 300 years earlier. The letters "oya" have been obscured by space grime so that the computerized device has long ago forgotten its full name. But like the ultimate Timex watch, it is still ticking. For centuries, the spacecraft has been following its simple instructions: Observe and record everything you find. In the process it has become, in Mr. Spock's words, "a highly advanced mentality" that cannot stop "evolving, learning, searching." I rented the movie again last week after learning that NASA was poised to pull the funding plug on the real Voyagers - two VW Beetle-sized packages of instruments that have been sending streams of data back to Earth since 1977 and that are now at the outer reaches of our solar system. Corny as the movie is, it left me depressingly convinced that these 8 billion-mile-long extensions of human curiosity are indeed now smarter, or at least more enlightened, than the mortals who made them. After all, can it be anything but foolish to turn a deaf ear to the most distant human-made objects in the universe - devices that after nearly three decades of travel are now registering and describing for us the first ripples of interstellar space? It would be less disheartening if the move to kill the Voyager program were an isolated example. But the U.S. scientific enterprise is riddled with evidence that Americans have lost sight of the value of non-applied, curiosity-driven research - the open-ended sort of exploration that doesn't know exactly where it's going but so often leads to big payoffs. In discipline after discipline, the demand for specific products, profits or outcomes - "deliverables," in the parlance of government - has become the dominant force driving research agendas. Instead of being exploratory and expansive, science -- especially in the wake of 9/11 - seems increasingly delimited and defensive. Take, for example, the Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency - arguably the nation's premier funder of unencumbered scientific exploration, whose early dabbling in computer network design gave rise to the Internet. Agency officials recently acknowledged to Congress that they were shifting their focus away from blue-sky research and toward goal-oriented and increasingly classified endeavors. Similarly, in geology, scientists have for years sought funds to blanket the nation with thousands of sensors to create an enormous, networked listening device that might teach us something about how the earth is shifting beneath our feet. The system got so far as to be authorized by Congress for $170 million over five years, but only $16 million has been appropriated in the first three of those years and just 62 of an anticipated 7,000 sensors have been deployed. Only in fiscal 2006, thanks to the South Asian tsunami, is the program poised to get more fully funded - out of a narrow desire to better predict the effects of such disasters here. The Department of Energy in February announced it is killing the so-called BTeV project at Fermilab in Batavia, Ill., one of the last labs in this country still supporting studies in high- energy physics. This field, once dominated by the United States, promises to discover in the next decade some of the most basic subatomic particles in the universe, including the first so- called supersymmetric particle - a kind of stuff that seems to account for the vast majority of matter in the universe but which scientists have so far been unable to put their fingers on. "We seem to have reached a point where people are so overwhelmed by the problems we face, we're not sure we really need more frontiers," said Kei Koizumi of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, noting that the only segments of the nation's research and development budget enjoying real growth are defense and homeland security. The National Science Foundation in particular, the nation's premier supporter of physical sciences research and science education, has suffered repeated cuts in recent years and now demands that grantees spell out in unprecedented detail how and when their proposed work will pay off. Why should we care about this demand for results before the research begins? Isn't exploration for exploration's sake a luxury? Money is tight. Terrorists are trying to kill us. And what's a supersymmetric particle going to do for me, anyway? First, there are practical reasons to care. At least half of this nation's economic growth during the past half century has been the direct result of scientific innovation, according to the Task Force on the Future of American Innovation, a coalition of two dozen organizations from industry and academia concerned about America's declining leadership in science and engineering. Examples abound. Early research on DNA splicing in bacteria unexpectedly gave rise to the biotechnology industry, a huge economic engine that launched today's golden age of biology and medicine. Unfettered studies of electronics at places like the old Bell Laboratories gave the world transistors, lasers and the basic information theory that led to computer networking. Albert Einstein often said that his work on the general theory of relativity was too arcane to ever have any practical application. Yet without it we would not have the global positioning satellite system that today tells our cars - and the military's "smart" bombs - where they are and where they need to go. John Bahcall, a professor of natural science at Princeton's Institute for Advanced Study, tells the story of Michael Faraday, the 19th-century scientist, who, when asked by skeptics about the value of his recent discovery of electricity, is said to have replied, "What is the value of a newly born baby?" Faraday "certainly had no anticipation of television or that you could send electrical signals on the Internet," Bahcall said. "But he knew that when you found something fundamental, it was going to be valuable fundamentally." But what about Voyager 1 and 2, which scientists say can probably keep operating until 2020? What good are they? Sure, their instruments have sent back 5 trillion bits of data and 80,000 pictures, including spectacular close-ups of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune and astonishing details from various moons - 22 of which were previously undiscovered. Yes, they've been detecting the impacts of solar flares at the very edge of the sun's influence and are sensing for the first time what the rest of the universe is made of. But how in the world are we going to take that to the bank? Well, maybe we won't. But that raises the second, less practical - yet arguably more important - reason to support such endeavors: Because our understanding of the world and our support of the quest for knowledge for knowledge's sake is a core measure of our success as a civilization. Our grasp, however tentative, of what we are and where we fit in the cosmos should be a source of pride to all of us. Our scientific achievements are a measure of ourselves that our children can honor and build upon. What happened to the unbridled and fearless thirst for knowledge that inspired us, as a species and as a nation, to hurl those Voyager probes free of the physical and psychological gravity of our little world? What happened to the trait that, according to Mr. Spock, was the driving force behind Veeger's immense accumulation of knowledge: "Insatiable curiosity." Crouched today in a defensive posture, we are suffering from a lack of confidence and a shriveled sense of the optimism that once urged us to reach boldly into the unknown. Equally important, we seem to have forgotten that many good things come just from being open to them, without a formed idea of what they are or how they should come out. We are losing, in short, one of the oldest traditions in science: to simply observe, almost monk-like, with an open mind and without a plan. Twenty years ago, I heard a recording of astronaut Rusty Schweickart that, more than anything I have since heard or read, brought this truth home to me. Schweickart described a spacewalk he once took while orbiting the Earth. He was clipped to a tether, floating in space, and his job was to take pictures. But the camera had malfunctioned, giving him a rare few minutes with nothing to do while Mission Control tried to figure out what was wrong. And so for the first time, he actually took in - on a personal and emotional level - the almost incomprehensible reality of where he was: in outer space, on the end of a rope, the farthest human being from Earth. At that moment he had an epiphany about what an immense privilege it was for him to be there - and what a huge responsibility he carried to report back to the world what he was seeing and feeling. So he looked. And he listened. He tried to understand. He gazed down on the brilliant green and blue marble that was home and appreciated that everything he had ever known - all art, all history, all human emotion - was just a tiny part of a greater universe yet to be known. He committed himself to inspiring others to cherish that planet and pursue that unknown. Today the Voyager spacecrafts are giving us an even longer view, sending us the first snapshots of our solar system from the outside in. Are we too busy, scared or broke to listen? Or will we look back at the universe with the humility that knows there is still something to learn, the curiosity to pursue it and the commitment to make some good of it?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Science & Faith - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:55:32 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:30:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith - Sparks >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:06:56 -1000 >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:08:23 EDT >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >>>Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research <snip> >>We've seen no "social science criteria" for "analyzing" data only >>excuses for _not_ analyzing and applying critical thinking to >>ludicrous and absurd stories from phony "whistleblowers" who >>are just whistling in the wind with their crazy tales. >Aloha Brad, and what sources do you use for your generalizations >here? We're still waiting for the "social science criteria" for "analyzing" UFO data and stories that doesn't short circuit all critical thinking as your "approach" perversely advocates. Your siren song calls for us to all leap off the cliff in a mass suicide of the critical mind. Few are willing to take that jump. In UFOlogy, there is the fundamental scientific requirement, the Hynek Screening, to eliminate conventional explanations for a UFO case by scientific-technical analysis before it can be accepted as a "UFO" and even then it will be a provisional determination subject to further investigation. The burden of proof is on the claimant, not on the critically thinking screener. Yet your approach calls for uncritical acceptance of all purported "whistleblower" claims merely on the claimant's say-so. If someone claims they worked for the government and saw aliens conversing with government officials, then you want us to accept such outlandish claims right from the outset. If they do prove they worked for the government then you insist that proves their alien stories are true (a logic error). Suddenly now you forget all your protests that the "national security agencies" use "disinformation" to "tamper" and "distort" and "discredit" witnesses -- when it comes to _believing_ the alien stories. Suddenly the alien stories are automatically immune from being themselves the "tampered" distortions planted by the government as "disinformation" and in your warped "methodology" these alien stories can only be true and cannot be government-manipulated lies. This is exactly what a government propaganda expert would advocate - believe the lies. <snip> >>Once again, it's the "national security agencies" (such as CIA) >>who have "instructed" the "military" (USAF) to do the evil >>deeds. Like the previous propaganda theme analysis I posted, we >>see the continuing pattern here: CIA bad. Military good. >I use 'national security agencies' as a generic term to cover >the 'military' and civilian intelligences agencies such as the >CIA. You say that here but everywhere else your writing makes out the military as "courageous" and the CIA as the sinister agency putting up "ABC/Disney" to spew out "disinformation" in the recent Peter Jennings UFO program, etc. You do not criticize the USAF for the Roswell coverup or any other aspect of UFO history. And you manage again in this posting to give the USAF another approving backslap. Apparently you cannot find anything to criticize about USAF performance or behavior in regards to its handling of the UFO issue. And you apparently can find no "courageous" CIA "whistleblowers" to tout, it's only the military who has them, judging from your writings. <snip> >>>initial US Air Force inquiry into the UFO sightings phenomenon, >>>Project Sign, provided a conclusive statement confirming the ETH >>Again, a clear statement that the USAF, the military, are the >>good guys. The bad guys are the "national security agencies" >>that suppressed and covered up the USAF's "conclusive" pro-ETH >>statement. >One can make all sorts of value judgements for particular >agencies and departments based on specific actions. It is fact >that a team of USAF air intelligence specialists doing the first >thorough investigation of UFO's reached a conclusion favorable >to the ETH, and then had this overturned by the Chief of the >USAF, General Hoyt Vandenberg. You have still not answered my >earlier post where I asked you to quote your sources that it >wasn't Vandenberg that turned down the first Estimate of the >Situation by the Project Sign team. You still can't bring yourself to criticize the USAF. And the USAF was not the only agency to come to a favorable though temporary pro-ETH conclusion, as the CIA did the same in Dec 1952. The additional data on the first version of the Estimate of the Situation was published by Keyhoe in 1973 and supplemented by my interview of Keyhoe in 1979. You clearly are uninformed about the policy history and available data on the EOTS to know nothing about Keyhoe's vitally important data. Keyhoe reiterated that he saw a copy of the EOTS with the Pentagon received stamp date of Aug 5, 1948, the document signed off by the two AMC colonels in charge of the AMC Intelligence Dept (McCoy and Clingerman). Ruppelt's more complete unpublished manuscript has a fuller account of the EOTS review and rejection process indicating it was rejected before it ever reached Vandenberg. The published book has edited this to sound like it was only Vandenberg doing the rejection, and pieces of the fuller version still survive in the published book as when it says the AF "high command" had rejected the EOTS. And of course it is the unpublished Ruppelt manuscript that specifically states that the last case included in the revised EOTS was a Los Alamos sighting of Sept 23, 1948. So this was the Second EOTS, not the First EOTS of Aug 5, 1948. <snip> >>Lots of talk about "tampering" and "tainting" of evidence and of >>"distorting" and "discrediting" witnesses and evidence <snip> >Interesting that you want to dismiss evidence of 'evidence >tampering'. I have said no such thing. I pointed out you are the one doing all this talking about "evidence tampering" yet you haven't presented any evidence, let alone credible evidence, of any "evidence tampering." JANAP 146 has nothing to do with "tampering" only with suppression or secrecy, by the way (see below). >You are caught in a paradox here. Basically you seek >hard evidence that 'hard evidence' is being tampered with, >distorted, etc. If you apply a little logic here you'll see that >your argument is inconsistent. You are mixing different levels >of logical analysis. There is evidence that 'hard evidence' is >being tampered with. This evidence is based on whistleblower >testimonies, leaked Majestic documents and extant facts over >military regulations such JANAP 146. <snip> You are the one caught in a circular argument. Your proof of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 UFOs And The British Royal Air Force From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:57:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:57:38 -0400 Subject: UFOs And The British Royal Air Force Source: Phenomena Magazine http://tinyurl.com/3wxvt Wednesday, April 13, 2005 UFOs And The British Royal Air Force Close Encounters of the British Kind Dateline: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 By: Nick Redfern Phenomena Co-Editor As someone who writes books on UFOs, cryptozoology, and conspiracy theories, and as Phenomena co-editor as well as a contributor to a variety of other publications, I am often asked: How did you become interested and involved in the worlds of the unexplained and the paranormal? I figured that with the question posed on what is a fairly regular basis, it might be a good opportunity to provide the answer. It was 10.30 p.m. on a dark Wednesday evening in late 1978 as I walked with my father, Frank Redfern, through the deserted streets of the town of Walsall, England. A biting wind sliced through the air and I buried my hands in my coat pockets in a vain attempt to keep warm. We headed for a nearby car park. "Well, what did you think?" asked my father. "I thought it was great," I replied, continuing: "Do you think it could really happen?" My father looked at me out of the corner of his eye; and a knowing smile crossed his face: "Maybe it already has," he replied, his voice dropping ever so slightly. The subject of this cryptic conversation? Steven Spielberg=92s classic film, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, which told the story of humankind=92s first face-to-face meeting with an alien species, and that we had just seen at the now-long-demolished Walsall ABC Cinema. We climbed the stairs of the car park and headed for my father=92s Ford Capri car, and my thirteen-year-old mind mused upon his comment. "What did you mean by that?" I asked in reference to his curious words. "Hang on," he replied. "Let=92s get out of the car park and I=92ll tell you," he said. And as we drove home on that late autumn evening, the startling facts surrounding my father=92s involvement in the UFO subject came tumbling out. Like the majority of young men in Britain in the 1950s, my father was required to serve a three-year-term in the military under British National Service regulations. Because of his keen interest in aviation, he chose the Royal Air Force. During his service with the RAF, he served at various RAF stations, but by far the most memorable experience of his career occurred near the East Coast of England at a place called RAF Neatishead, Norfolk. It was September 1952 and my father was working as a radar mechanic. "So what happened?" I asked as we drove home. "Well," he began, "I remember that we were taking part in an exercise =96 Mainbrace, it was called =96 and I was on duty. It was early in the morning =96 four or five o=92clock =96 maybe a bit later. Things were pretty normal until the radar picked up something on the scopes." "What was it?" I asked eagerly. "At first," he explained, "we thought it might have been an aircraft, but we knew soon enough that it was something else. We had this object, this UFO, whatever you want to call it, on the scopes at fifty thousand feet, and flying over the North Sea and parallel to the English coast. The speed of it meant there was no way this was a plane." He continued: "The report went up the chain, and aircraft were scrambled from Coltishall =96 which was a base nearby. Coltishall sent up Venom and Meteor aircraft to try and get a look at the object. We were watching all this on the screens thinking that it would turn out to be something ordinary. But when the planes closed in, the UFO suddenly streaked away and headed towards Norway. The pilots didn=92t have a chance. "The next day," he added, "something strange happened. A bunch of people came =96 a photographic team from Coltishall =96 and they had some really good gear which they set up to record the radar=92s Plan Position Indicator tube in case the UFO came back. "Well, the day following this, it did come back. We tracked it; the planes went up, but this time we had it all on film." "What happened then?" I wondered. My father replied: "We never knew. The guys from Coltishall removed everything: the radar tapes, the records, all of it. Everyone was told not to discuss it outside of the base. They never told us what the result was, and the UFO never came back, but I won=92t forget it." I sat back in the car seat, amazed at what I had just heard. UFOs =96 so often the subject of ridicule =96 really existed. And, more significantly, Britain=92s military knew it, too. The remainder of the journey was made in silence; me trying to take in these remarkable facts and my father recalling his long-gone days with the Royal Air Force. Today, more than half a century after his weird experience, my father still vividly recalls the events of September 1952 and is convinced that something truly strange did indeed occur to both
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:44:17 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:18:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Hall >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:26:11 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>>Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>3) Have you or anyone on the List gotten the DVD of the Apollo >>>15 mission and viewed _all_ the footage when they were at >>>Hadley's Rille to see what the witness _might_ be talking about? >>I wasn't aware that the was a DVD. It would have to have been >>the raw deed from the rover and not the stuff CBS was getting >>which could be cut at will in Houston. >Hi Don and James! >Shortly after reading this interesting but anecdotal account on >UFO UpDates, I spent a few days carefully reading through my >personal copy of 'Apollo 15 - The NASA Mission Reports', Vol. 1 >(Apogee Books) that was compiled from actual NASA archives by >Robert Godwin. Although this book contains an overwhelming >amount of technicial diagrams and text and comes with a CDROM >(see URL below), including full transcripts of the technical >crew debriefings of their EVA to Hadley's Rille, I found nothing >to substantiate what this former NASA employee claimed regarding >UFOs or evidence of alien activity around the Apollo 15 landing >site. >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jan/m13-007.shtml >Robert Godwin, the editor of this volume, was interviewed on >'Strange Days... Indeed' back in January 12, 2002 after his >'Apollo 11 - The NASA Mission Reports', Vol. 1 had been >published. This volume also had complete transcripts of the >astronaut debriefings which includes their sighting of a UFO >during their trajectory towards the Moon. I have been following this thread without saying anything just to watch how it developed. My immediate reaction after first reading the story was that this guy is exceedingly naive if he thinks remaining anonymous is important. The story contained ample, more than enough detail for anyone at NASA (or any other interested agency) to easily identify him. So he shouldn't be able to use fear of retailiation as any excuse not to come forward with his name, current occupation, credentials, documentation if any, etc., which normally should be required in the first place to take a story like this seriously. I say put up or shut up. There is no reason whatsover to take him seriously as it now
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Science & Faith - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:04:12 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:24:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith - Hall >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:55:32 EDT >Subject: Re: Science & Faith >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:06:56 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:08:23 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >>>>Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >>>We've seen no "social science criteria" for "analyzing" data only >>>excuses for _not_ analyzing and applying critical thinking to >>>ludicrous and absurd stories from phony "whistleblowers" who >>>are just whistling in the wind with their crazy tales. >>Aloha Brad, and what sources do you use for your generalizations >>here? >We're still waiting for the "social science criteria" for >"analyzing" UFO data and stories that doesn't short circuit all >critical thinking as your "approach" perversely advocates. Your >siren song calls for us to all leap off the cliff in a mass >suicide of the critical mind. Few are willing to take that jump. >In ufology, there is the fundamental scientific requirement, the >Hynek Screening, to eliminate conventional explanations for a >UFO case by scientific-technical analysis before it can be >accepted as a "UFO" and even then it will be a provisional >determination subject to further investigation. The burden of >proof is on the claimant, not on the critically thinking >screener. Yet your approach calls for uncritical acceptance of >all purported "whistleblower" claims merely on the claimant's >say-so. >If someone claims they worked for the government and saw aliens >conversing with government officials, then you want us to accept >such outlandish claims right from the outset. If they do prove >they worked for the government then you insist that proves their >alien stories are true (a logic error). Suddenly now you forget >all your protests that the "national security agencies" use >"disinformation" to "tamper" and "distort" and "discredit" >witnesses -- when it comes to _believing_ the alien stories. >Suddenly the alien stories are automatically immune from being >themselves the "tampered" distortions planted by the government >as "disinformation" and in your warped "methodology" these alien >stories can only be true and cannot be government-manipulated >lies. This is exactly what a government propaganda expert would >advocate - believe the lies. <snip> Brad,. I don't agree with your notion that Salla is somehow an agent of disinformation for reasons of internecine warfare among national security agenices, which Occam (Ockham) certainly would reject when there are much simplerand more straightforward explanations available. But as long as we are being scientitically religious here, I say 'amen' about your above remarks otherwise. He states no social science criteria other than hole-in-the-head 'open-mindedness.' I'm willing to bet that he applies much more stringent criteria to selecting a surgeon or a lawyer for any personal need, and if they told such stories as many of the so- called whistle-blowers do he would not be so keen on accepting them at face value. Face value, as you noted, involves accepting the stories as valid right at the outset without even the most basic of fact- checking or verification. No one with any critical faculties at all does that, either in the physical or social sciences, or
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:30:44 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:33:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Ledger >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:22:37 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>>Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>I assume you wanted me to answer these. See in text. >Thanks for replying. <snip> >Mr.Oberg replies: "I've been passing the story around to people >who were there, and the universal reaction is that the story is >some sort of delusion or deception. The man who ran the TV >camera on the LRV, Ed Fendell ("Captain Video"), simply said 'B- >--S---" and suggested I had too much spare time on my hands. >Two scientists who were in the science support room told me >unequivocally that controllers never left their stations during >any spacewalks, and the FCR (the main MCC room) was never >evacuated at any time during any Apollo mission. Richard Nieber, >the young cop mentioned in the story, is still at JSC and has >been a long-time buddy of mine (fellow brooklyn emigrants), and >has no idea why the tale teller would have said what he did, >because Nieber has no recollection of anything like this. Add to >it the fundamental hardware problem that there are not TWO but >only ONE tv cameras on the rover, and it's pretty overwhelming >case that the story as recounted has minimal chance of being >even remotely real. Please post this over at UFO UpDates on the >continuing thread there." I assume you contacted Jim Oberg direct. I've relayed to Hatten much of what I've found out about the excusions during the 3 Hadley Rille EVAs. I've also advised him that there was only one video camera. I did offer that Fendell was remotely operating the video camera from Houston and that only a speed pan could have picked up the "object" both forward and aft of the Rover. Hatten doesn't pretend to be an expert on anything to do with the missions or policy or protocols at NASA, just his own job and he's adamant about what he saw. It's strange that he would mention Nieber by name if he knew that he cold be checked out. But the other problem is that if this did happen, why would this be any different than any other field of this bizzare phenomenon. Why would we expect the following: 1] The raw feeds to be available. 2] Ed Feddell to admit that this happened. 3] Nieber to coorborate Hatten's story. Whether the MOCR was ever evacuated at any time during an EVA is moot. Like Errol mentioned on the program. Over the period of a few minutes, what difference would have made if there was a sudden emergency on the Moon. What was Houston going to do about it? And of course Houston would have cut the live audio and video feeds to the networks. >We already know the witness was not technical expert, thus the >UFOs could just as easily be advanced Soviet, US conceptual >images, artist renderings, maybe even prototypes. They are only >UFOs if they are unidentified by the witness, they may just be >prosaic advanced concept humdrum space vehicles that the witness >knows nothing about since he is just Joe Public. True, but then it's another he said "he said" situation. Most people who see UFOs have no technical expertize either when they report them, that doesn't make them wrong. >Because the first thing about security is you don't keep your >secrets on the wall after you look at them! Good point. <snip> >>.........the Saturn 5 rocket was scrapped and construction was >>discontinued. >Yes, and I hear the plans were all destroyed. >Presumably to prevent them from falling into enemy hands, a >Saturn V would make a nice intercontinental missile. That may or may not be true, as mentioned some time ago on this List. And there is the one on display [I took some phoyos of it last Spring while in Florida, though probably not 100 percent in tact. Pretty difficult to steal that. Had this thread popped up in the Spring of 2004 I would have been able to contact Hatten directly. I went through Georgia during my return trip. Additionally, there is a new thread on Updates concerning the experiences of a couple of lay engineers and their stumbling across the library at the observatory and hi-rez photos of the Lunar surface showing artifacts. hatten knew nothing of these but did confirm the location nad stated that while he was there the Library was at the main complex and that the obsrvatory was known to them as "The Haunted House" due to it's remote location. He lived about 3/4s of a mile away from it. Incidentally anyone wishing access the transcripts, audio and video clips etc. of the Apollo 15 mission can go here: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15j.html From this URL you can navigate all over the Apollo landscape.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:04:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:35:32 -0400 Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? - Velez >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:30:31 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>From: William Weber <wweber1.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:49:23 -0400 >>Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:29:16 -0400 >>>Subject: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>>I'm just going to put this out there because I think I have to. >>>However, I will not debate the value or validity of the >>>material. I firmly believe this is _strong_ evidence for UFOs >>>being _intelligently_ guided and makes a strong case for the >>>reality the abductees have testifying about for decades. >>>See for yourself: >>>http://www.virtuallystrange.com/aic/formation.html >>>Ladies and gents, you are cordially invited to make of this what >>>you will. As I said, I consider it compelling evidence. I am >>>dead certain others will consider it the product of a fevered >>>imagination. >>Take a look at the third paragraph, below, that mentions a >>'Z-shaped' formation. This seems at least somewhat similar to >>what you've described and placed in the graphic. >Although people do see order in random patterns, they do not >always see the same thing. What one sees as a 'Z-shaped' pattern >using a selective number of dots, another may see an Orthodox >cross or a German swastika when more of the dots are taken into >account. Would this imply that the later interpretations are >better than the former? Not necessarily - they could all be >wrong. One summer while driving I noticed a dark disk shaped >mass rapidly moving across the highway at the horizon. It slowly >changed shape and direction as if it was under intelligent >control. As I approached closer I was amazed when this UFO >turned out to be a dense flock of hundreds or thousands of black >birds! >With the warmer temperatures and the longer days, people are >staying outdoors longer enjoying the Spring weather. With the >melted snow and April showers, many white birds (seagulls?) can >be seen flying high above our temporary "wetlands" here. Their >appearance is identical to the changing pattern of bright white >dots in that single interesting video frame that John brought to >our attention and the orange lights (which could also be of high >flying birds catching the last rays of the Sun which has set >below the horizon) in the example that Bill presented. As these >birds change direction, they get brighter or dimmer, sometimes >seeming to turn-off and disappear altogether in the bright >daylight sky. While observing them maneuver in the sky it it is >not hard to convince oneself that these are not birds but ET >craft going through a choreographed aerial dance. Nick wrote: >Since these high altitude birds are not all flying in the same >plane or level, if they do momentarily spell out "UFO", other >witnesses a few hundred meters away would see just a random >pattern of dots. So if UFOs (or birds) are indeed communicating >to us via "OVNI skywriting", by flying at different altitudes it >would allow them to cryptically communicate only to individuals >since our neighbours would see nothing! LMAO! Nick my friend, if you see birds, please send me (discreetly) a sample of whatever you are smoking these days. It must be some pretty strong stuff if you see wings and tail-feathers in the Mexican image. And 'temperature'? You lifted that one right from Phillip Klass. It's not up to your usual standards. Thanks for the laugh buddy. Needed it. Birds! That's a good one Nick. ;)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 13 Re: The NASA Moon Photos - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:15:34 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:37:06 -0400 Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos - Smith >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:16:19 EDT >Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >In the early 70's I got to read something like 140,000 pages of >Apollo mission transcripts ...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Filer's Files #16 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:24:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:49:54 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 Filer's Files #16 - 2005 Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International April 13, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com Webmaster: C E Warren www.cewarren. Two UFOs Filmed The purpose of these files is to report weekly the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. Many people claim it is impossible for UFOs to visit Earth, I ask you only to keep an open mind and watch the evidence we accumulate each week. These Files make the assumption that extraterrestrial intelligent life not only exists, but my hypothesis is that of the over one hundred UFOs reported each week many represent a factual UFO sighting Articles this week include: Bring in ET for a Million Dollar Prize,:Soviet Cosmonaut Saw UFOs in Space, Geo-Magnetic Storm Now Underway, Mars =96 Did Lightning Carve the Planets? and Did a Congressman William D. Delahunt Find Data Confirming the Roswell Crash? UFOs were seen over Arizona, California, Indiana, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Tennessee, and Texas. Sightings were also reported in Canada, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Israel, Iraq and UFO crashes in Peru.. President Eisenhower's Farewell Address "In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together." January 1961. http://www.disclosureproject.org/ Million $ Prize - To Bring in ET HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA -- Wayne R. Goldman writes, "To bolster official disclosure of extraterrestrials after the ABC News documentary "The UFO Phenomenon -- Seeing Is Believing," hosted by Peter Jennings on Feb. 25. LoanPros.com is offering a $1 million dollar prize to the first person who can bring in a qualified extraterrestrial being in for a home loan. Furthermore, LoanPros.com will guarantee that the extraterrestrial will receive a home loan up to $1 million dollars. Wayne R. Goldman said, "We believe the existence of extraterrestrials is real and we want to do whatever we can to promote government disclosure. If someone can actually bring in an extraterrestrial to us, and we sign them up for a home loan, they will win the $1 million dollars prize. The prize is real and we will stand behind it." LoanPros.com is a highly successful mortgage company located in Huntington Beach; CA. and has been in business for 11 years. Snip Thanks to LoanPros.com call (866) 386-LEND (5363) wayneg.nul www.loanpros.com Soviet Cosmonaut Saw UFOs in Space Soviet astronaut, USSR Hero Vladimir Kovalenok spent 217 days of his life living in space. The astronaut does not exclude the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations. "When I was working at the Salyut orbital station, I saw something strange in a porthole one day. The object was the size of a finger. I was surprised to see it was an orbiting object," Kovalenko said at the press conference in Moscow. The astronaut added he called his partner Viktor Savinykh to take a look at the unidentified object in space. "It was hard to determine the size and the speed of an object in space. That is why I can not say exactly, which size it actually was. Savinykh prepared to take a picture of it, but the UFO suddenly exploded. Only clouds of smoke were left. The object split into two interconnected pieces. It was reminiscent of a dumb-bell. I reported about it to the Mission Control immediately," the astronaut said. "The Soviet press headlined the event widely. Soviet newspapers and magazines published a lot of articles and messages about it, but they were mostly critical articles. Journalists excluded the existence of the extraterrestrial reason," Kovalenok was quoted as saying. The astronaut said nobody knows, what happened that day, when he saw the strange object in space. "It was probably a UFO, but it was definitely not mysticism - two people watched it at the same time," said he. When on Earth, Kovalenok learned specialists had registered considerable radiation emission the day the astronaut saw the object. "I do not believe it when astronauts say they have never seen anything extraordinary in space," concluded Kovalenok. Thanks to Pravda =96 16/08/04 Mars =96 Did Lightning Carve the Planets? David Talbott Thunderbolts.info writes, "The fires of an intellectual revolution have been lit. Though unannounced, this shift in thought and perception will change our ideas about the natural world, about objects in space, and about the human past." Here, in brief, is an electrical interpretation. An interdisciplinary investigation of data concerning Mars suggests that in the past the entire planet was subjected to interplanetary-scale plasma discharge events. Vast regions were excavated to depths measured in miles. Some of the material was accelerated electrically into space; some was em placed back on the surface to form the ubiquitous but unexpected layering whose origins are now debated by planetary scientists. Great thunderbolt changed the surface of Mars. Shown above is the Valles Marineris that still defies every conventional attempt to explain it since it is four times deeper than the Grand Canyon, and stretches for almost 3,000 miles. From an electric viewpoint of the cosmos, it is the scar of a cosmic thunderbolt. Diffuse discharges baked the surfaces of implanted layers, as in a plasma oven, giving rise to hardened strata exposed in the walls of canyons. Arc discharges burned and blasted craters into the surface. Lightning many times more energetic than that of thunderstorms we know today ripped across the Martian landscape. Many of the blast channels it left are mistaken for flood or lava erosion, a perception that can be easily corrected through attention to detail. But in the floors of many of these channels appear glassified ridges, or "fulgurites", as in the Gorgonum Region. On a smaller scale, the lightning's transverse coronal filaments, always perpendicular to the direction of the primary discharge, formed and fused these characteristic ripples in the regolith of the Arrhenius Region. In some channels, multiple lightning strikes have cut terraces, each with its faint fulgurite ridges. The existence of these mysterious ridges is a crucial prediction of the Electric Universe. In the electric view, therefore, both the domed craters and the accompanying trenches of the Arrhenius Region are the result of cosmic lightning strikes. Where an electric arc "stuck" birefly to a point on the surface before being extinguished, it produced domed craters, as in Dr. Ransom's experiments. Dr. Ransom has informed us that in his experiments, if a lower energy arc was extinguished before a complete spherule was formed, the result was a dome. The fully rounded spherules were the result of higher-energy discharges. =46rom the Electric universe viewpoint, the domed craters and the "wormy" channels simply reflect two common electrical discharge effects on a surface. We expect to find them in close association. And we can confidently predict that more extensive laboratory experimentation will confirm the association in every important detail. Editor's Note:: Credit must also be given to Wallace Thornhill www.holoscience.com) and David Talbott www.thunderbolts.info Photo Credit: NASA/JPL/Malin Space Science Systems Arizona - Sighting by Victoria Liljenquist NORTH SCOTTSDALE =96 On April 9, 2005, at 9:30 PM, Victoria Liljenquist and 13 other witnesses traveled to a location for an encounter where Victoria had previously been guided to take the group from clairaudient transmissions she often receives regarding UFO encounters. She reports, "We arrived at 9 PM, and within thirty minutes, all of us first witnessed a series of smaller orbs appearing just at the horizon line of small foothills. Then, we began calling forth the ships! Suddenly, around the mountain appeared a very large amber orb...moving smoothly, rapidly, and silently. It was flying about the altitude of a small plane or lower." The large amber orb began traveling along the hillside to our right (east), then it would dart behind a foothill, then again appeared traveling along more foothills, heading north but was still not far from us....the orb literally made a turn and began traveling back towards us (it had traveled in a circle all the way around where our group was standing). The flight pattern displayed very much the same shape as the "OM Symbol". The orb moved closer and lowered as it passed by us, now appearing as two large orbs clustered together. The Film footage is magnificent and will be on my web site soon. www.victoriaslight.com California =96 Multiple Lights SONORA - I went out tonight at 8:20 PM, because I wanted to observe an iridium satellite flare. I saw one last month and took a picture of it. I have been attempting to dismiss iridium flares as the possible cause of my string of pearls UFO pictures. I really don't think that the string of pearls are iridium flares, and the more I study these satellite flares I find that this is not at all similar to the string of pearls pictures that I took last summer. I watched but did not see anything at 8:25 PM, when it was supposed to occur in the northwest sky. Then, about 8:30, I saw a bright flash to the south so I quickly turned and watched the sky there. About 30 seconds later, I saw the flash again, a little more to the south and west of the initial flash. This is a rapid flash. I have seen these before, but they could appear anywhere in the sky. I have seen these things flash up to six or seven times, each time in a different location and each flash about 30 seconds apart. I can't imagine what type of aerial phenomena this represents. During the summer months you might see these things after sunset to around 9:30 PM where I live. I am going to attempt to get a picture of this elusive object. To have success, I have to anticipate where the next flash will occur, and determine the time interval between flashes. See http://www.heavens-above.com/main.asp? Thanks to Puppysonny1 California - Different Multiple Objects HOLLYWOOD, LOS ANGELES =96 The witness wrote, "I can't believe what I'm seeing; on Saturday April 2, 2005, at 11:00 AM, a black geometrical orb flew above Hollywood, it sat there in a trail for a few minutes." On Sunday a black ink spot morphed into other shapes. White orbs on Monday and nothing less than star wars today! Multiple black and white orbs and crafts, multiple luminous crafts and lasers, spirals and other phenomenon that I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around. Several witnesses to today's action as I brought the telescope to work with me so I could confirm I'm not going bonkers. Four people went holy crap! Call someone with a telescope in LA and tell them to point it above Hollywood and get some more confirmation .Thanks to Brian Vike, Director, http://www.hbccufo.org HBCC UFO Research Note: Brian Vike writes, "I have stacks of sighting reports that have come in to me over the telephone so I've started taking some reports and place them to an audio file so folks can listen into the actual report. Of course as always, the reports have been cut down or edited so all of the eyewitness=92s personal information has been removed. These clips can be heard at: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews =3Darticle =3D2595 Indiana - Another Nighttime Shot of UFO BLOOMINGTON -- On April 3, 2005, John and his wife and children left the birthday party we had for our son. They decided to go for a little drive out by the farm at 2 to 3 AM. They were followed by a silver SUV after they passed an old stone quarry. The SUV stayed right behind them flashing their bright lights on and off. Susan slowed and the SUV slowed, she sped up they did as well. They decided to head for home, and the SUV stopped following them. That was around 10 PM, when we got home John told me, we decided to hop in the Van and head out to the area. We drove past the quarry and noticed nothing from the front part of the farm, but once we moved to the back, I saw a light in the distance on the horizon. It was a long disk shaped object. I taped it and you can see what I caught. I had the hardest time getting it on normal film. I had to use =91nightshot,=92 and I thought maybe I was out of focus, which you will see, I played with the focus and only got a blurry image. It moved to the right some, then just hovered, then after a few minutes of taping, it disappeared. Close up of object taken by Mark Evans. The video can be seen at: http://www.hbccufo.org/videos/LongObject1.wmv New York - Disc Buzzes Witnesses Vehicle LOWMAN -- I was taking my daughter to catch her ride to work at 8:45 PM, on March 27, 2001, when she saw the craft approaching from the southwest heading across our car. She screamed, "Stop the car Dad, it=92s a UFO!" No sooner than she got those words out, the car sputtered to a stop along the dark country road. I leaned over and looked out the passenger=92s side window and there it was not more than 100 feet above us. It was disc shaped, the top was a slightly curved (dome like), and the bottom was even less curved almost flat. It was grayish in color, metallic looking, and with no seams and looked like it was all one piece. There were three softly lit orange orbs on the bottom spaced out in a triangle shape. As it was going over us I got out of car and could feel something like a strong static pulling on me. Funny thing is it looked as if it was tipped up on its side with the top moving ahead. It was only moving at a very slow pace, maybe 5 mph. This was close enough that if a dinner plate was held at arm=92s length the craft would have been larger. My daughter and I heard a low drone like thumping sound. After all this it proceeded across the farm field and up the side of a hill and stopped over a revolutionary war monument. At that time it changed to a white light that grew in intensity until very bright, then all at once poof, it was gone. It just vanished. If it left, instead of vanished, it must have flown at a very high rate of speed directly away from us as it was gone in less than 100th of a second or the light simply went out. The car started right up and we drove to where my daughters ride was already waiting. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director, http://www.hbccufo.org Ohio =96 Two Video Frames of Two UFOs Fostoria _ On March 30, 2005, George Ritter caught two video frames of the same two UFOs moving south. One UFO is behind the tree about 300 yards away. In the succeeding video frames the UFOs moved about 85 feet between the two succeeding shots on his VHS RCA camera. The camera was set to take one hundred eighty frames per second. Speed of the UFOs is estimated at almost 2000 mph. The farm crib is 265 yards away. The two objects move to the right (south) in the second video frame below. Thanks to George Ritter Tennessee =96 UFO Photographed KINGSPORT -- MUFON's State Director Kim Shaffer, received this report of a very strange object which made repetitive motions across the early morning sky on March 26, 2005.. The witness appears quite adamant that the object was not a terrestrial craft or astronomical phenomenon. From his description, the sighting is quite bizarre. A follow-up investigation will be forthcoming and I will post the findings here. Thanks to Kim Shaffer MUFON TN SD http://www.mufontennessee.org/ Texas - Lights in the Sky Change Direction SAN ANTONIO =96 The witness was watering the dogs on April 2, 2005, at 7:57 PM, and looked over at the Oak tree to see how the leaves were beginning to bud out. As I looked up at the top of the tree I noticed a star moving. I thought I wonder if that is a satellite. I followed the moving star heading towards the cup end of the big dipper from the west, when I saw more movement. To the east, a star moving faster was heading in a collision coarse with the other east-moving star. It was like watching jets fly grids after 9-11. Just as they were about to crash the one moving west disappeared and the east star changed course and moved more north. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director, http://www.hbccufo.org Did a Congressman Find Data Confirming Roswell Crash? Brian Vike, Director, HBCC UFO Research on March 23, 2005 has released a letter that was written to a Mr. Robert F. Brown, a fellow who explained to me that he was persistent in his pursuit of information through different government agencies on a sighting event, which he witnessed in late 1949 or early 1950 when he was 11 or 12 years old. Robert wrote letters to his Congressman, Mr. William D. Delahunt of Massachusetts in hopes that he would have the means to help retrieve alleged documents that may be floating around in an archive about Robert's sighting. In the years Mr. Brown has been tracking down the information he is looking for, he has been communicating with Congressman Delahunt's office, the FBI and Department of Justice. Brian says, "I would like to point out in the letter posted with this report has one sentence which I found to be of greatest interest:" "Thank you for your letter about UFOs and the July 1947 incident that happened in Roswell, New Mexico. After looking into this matter, I have found that the debris from that is still being analyzed and is not open to the public at this time." I like so many others were under the impression that there was officially no UFO crash at Roswell in 1947, according to the government/military. The doors were closed on this sometime ago and some varying ideas were thrown out to us all on what the military said took place. So, when I read the letter from the office of Congressman, Mr. William D. Delahunt, I see it as reading: "Someone has looked into the alleged Roswell event and possibly found information on the actual crashed craft. Very strange, if you ask me. The letter signed by a staff member can be viewed at: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D25 89 Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Israel =96 Low Flying Disk ASHDOD -- On the 5th April 2005, at 9:17 PM, the witness was taking out trash when he noticed a red bright light. He stated, I tried ignoring it, but after a minute it started moving slowly, as it moved it got to my eye range. As I saw it, it was the shape of a disc, 100 feet off-ground, it flashed with blue orange and red bright lights. It was very round and the size of a small building. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director, http://www.hbccufo.org Jamaica =96 UFOs Photographed This photo was taken April 4, 2005 on our vacation to Jamaica. The energies are seen here above the Caribbean Sea. --Alex Cermak Thanks to Skywatch-International Web Site http://www.skywatch-international.org/ Editor's Note: The UFOs in the photo may be caused by an error in processing. Mexico - Strange Lights SIERRA DE GUADALUPE RANGE -- March 13, 2005, was quite active as regards the observation of strange lights. At around 11:30 p.m., my husband, mother, son Ivan and I were in the car after having gone to dinner at an establishment in the state of Mexico, driving along Mario Colin Avenue in a south-north direction. We were attracted by a very bright light that appeared to levitate over the terrain belonging to a hill of the Sierra de Guadeloupe range. Since this is a place I customarily drive through, I am aware of the permanent lights that are those of the town. Just as I was getting ready to turn on my camcorder, we were able to see how a smaller light emerged from this enormous source of light. It remained attached to the larger one. Thanks to Peru =96 Crashed Craft Recovery Marine Corp Lance Corporal John Weygandt, who was trained as an air defense gunner on the surface to air Alpha Stinger missile, is part of the Disclosure Project. Weygandt was sent to Peru in March 1997, to provide perimeter security for a radar installation that he was told tracked drug traffic aircraft in Peru and Bolivia. About midnight, while I was on guard duty, Sergeant Allen and Sergeant Atkinson told me, an aircraft crashed and they need us to go and secure the crash site. Early that morning we drove six Hummers to a position close to the crash site just when it started to get light. We walked towards the crash site and a huge gash in the land where something had crashed. Everything was burned and it was like something had almost cut warm butter with a knife. It was like something on fire or had some kind of energy like a laser had cut it. It was really strange. Anyway, I was in the front with Sergeant Allen and Sergeant Atkinson. And we were ten or twenty meters ahead of everyone else. We were the first ones to see this thing. It had gone up the hill and then off in the side of the ravine and ridge. This is about a 200-foot ridge, at least solid rock. It was buried in the side of a cliff. A huge craft was buried at a 45-degree angle in the side of the cliff there at the ridge. It was straight up and down. The craft was dripping a greenish-purple syrup-like liquid. The liquid was everywhere and fluctuated like it was alive and changing. The craft was humming like a bass guitar and had a slowly turning light. Most of the craft seemed buried into the cliff but vents, like a fish gill were on the back. The liquid got on my clothes and ate holes in them and burned off some the hair on my arms. There were three holes in the ship that may have been hatches that were not flush with the main body of the craft. . There was another hatch the same width and diameter of the top hatch and it was kind of crooked to the side and it was half open. I didn=92t see any lights or anything coming out of it but I felt this=85 presence. It is real strange. I think the creatures calmed me. It was weird and I think they were trying to communicate with me, like, I guess, telepathically. The Corporal estimated the craft was ten meters in width and about 20 meters in length and shaped like something between an egg and a teardrop. The skin of the craft had bumps and notches and appendages on it that were kind of an art form. The skin was made of metal but there was no reflection on it. The sun was shining on it and I could see the different shades of the craft and it didn=92t reflect anything. After we climbed back up, the Department of Energy people were there. They knew about it so I don=92t know why we went there still to this day. But anyway, I was arrested. My friend had all his gear taken by men in black uniforms who threatened and later arrested himIt was not from Earth. I knew that when I looked at it. I wondered if those facilities were built for the intent to track UFO=92s or other objects and their cover was there to track drug aircraft. They had laser range finders and all kinds of high tech stuff that I have never seen before. I couldn=92t really explain it. They [the laser range finders] looked like big telescopes and some sort of Command Center. Weygandt believes that this UFO was shot down by a HAWK missile. At the crash site there were about thirty of those guys wearing hazard suits. Iraq - No Doubts as To Why We Are Here Colonel Jesse Marcel Jr., age 69, flight surgeon for a U.S. Black Hawk helicopter unit is spending 14 months in Iraq. He writes, "On Sunday, March 29, 2005, we flew down to a newly discovered mass grave and it was horrible. If I had any doubts as to why we are here, I have none now." This was out in the desert where nothing grows except for grass over the filled in trenches. There were articles of clothing half buried as well as in one case I saw a part of a necklace lying on the ground next to a trench. The story was someone saw bus loads of people heading out into the desert but the buses were empty on return. Shades of Nazi Germany! I will send some pictures of what I saw that leaves little to the imagination as to what horror was visited on these unfortunate people. I will try to send them in the next several days as this computer will not send pix. Thanks to Jess and Bond Johnson Italy - Video Shows Object at St. Peter's VATICAN -- Video taken Thursday evening of St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City shows an object moving across the upper left portion of the screen. The video was shot at around 6:00 AM Roman time as Pope John Paul II lay in state. His funeral was held Friday. The shot was taken from a network feed camera and shows a white object passing quickly on a diagonal trajectory from the upper middle part of the screen to the left. Indianapolis WISH-TV =96 and other stations across the country carried the video on April 8, 2005, News 8 meteorologists say it appears to be a bird. All content =A9 Copyright 2000 - 2005 WorldNow and WISH-TV. EDITOR=92S NOTE : The object is probably too big to be a bird. It is unlikely to be a conventional aircraft, since it is flying so low over the Vatican City designated as a "no-fly zone." Anti- aircraft missiles and Italian Air Force fighters were on alert against possible terrorists. Thanks to WorldNow and WISH-TV. Does God have an Air Force that comes to capture the soul? "ttp://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3D3186873&nav=3D0Ra7YSYs Geo-Magnetic Storm Now Underway Mitch Battros =96 ECTV writes, "On April 11, 2005, the Kp Index has registered another spike measuring 6.2. This latest spike is slightly larger than last weeks. If my theory holds, watch for increased seismic and volcanic activity within the next 72 hours. http://www.earthchangestv.com North Carolina - UFO Images Alan Caviness reports: This photo, one of many in my ongoing collection, shows one of the aerial objects that operate cloaked over my home area in central North Carolina. The UFOs are invisible in most cases and are usually engulfed in some type of energy field that obscures their hulls from imaging. A few local colleagues and I have found that shooting them with flashes from digital cameras allows at least a "near-infrared" image to be captured by the typical digital camera. Seen here is one of the objects "emerging" from its energy field. The photo had to be enlarged, colored, and digitally enhanced to bring out maximum details. The aerial operations have resumed for this year, and we are expecting to get even more dramatic photos which will be available through Filer's Files only. His weekly Filers Files have been a very helpful resource for us independent investigators in North Carolina so we are making dozens of our images available. You can get them free with a subscription to Filer's Files. Thanks to Alan Caviness 35th UFO Conference in New Jersey Pat Marcatillio announces he is having a conference in Bordentown, NJ on April 16 and 17.at the Days Inn. 609-298-6100. Captain Courant and Jan Aldrich are two of featured speakers. 1073 Highway 206 (near I-295 and the New Jersey Turnpike) http://www.drufo.org/speakers.new.htm Donate to Filer's Files to receive UFO CD So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. George A. Filer has been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Your dollars do make a difference! We appreciate our loyal subscribers and will continue to grow with your help. Right now we need $300 to upgrade our website. Annual Membership is only $25 for 52 weekly intelligence reports. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055. You can also Click: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master Charge. REAL ESTATE Relocation Help! Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help you relocate, buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at: Majorstar.nul MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Haith From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:12:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:12:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Haith >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission As I first posted this subject following my contact with the fireman concerned, I would like to chip in a thought or two. I am well pleased that researcher Don and possibly a couple of others are directly in touch with him because I feel in depth analysis of this case can only be effective with personal contact. But I thought you'd like to hear the fireman's reaction to the current discussion which I will paste below. The guy in question admits that he does have difficulty in dealing with these matters point by point by email and tends to go off at tangents. That's why a face to face Q and A are important. He seems confused over the two camera questions - the point being of course that only one was actually 'live' Anyhow here are his latest comments: Witness's Reaction My...my... my! I seem to have caused a load of controversy. Dave, actually, I have not been reading everything sent to me, because I don't want my memories tainted by extraneous information. I just want someone to know that something unique happened during one of our moon shots, and I and Jim Baker witnessed it. Simply put, I do care about accuracy in reporting, take Dan Rather for instance and his supposed unimpeachable information concerning Pres. Bush whatever. Has nothing to do with what I saw and wtnessed, but the idea is the same. If a person can be seen to be inaccurate on one small point of his/hers testimony, then obviously the rest of his/hers statements for all of his life have been wrong. It Happened! End Of Statement! I'll be glad to answer any of these people's questions, if they will but write me via you and let me know when they want to joust for crying out loud, the facts are there. I went into the Auditorium at JSC with my wife in 1994, saw a Lunar Rover in the display, right next to the Lunar Excursion Module, commonly called the LEM, and the damned thing had two cameras on it. One on the front and one on the back. I may have been wrong on the actual locations, but the damned thing had two cameras. I don't owe anyone an apology for what I originally wrote! It appeared that one camera, (and I thought it was on the left front fender) had gone as far as it could go, and another had been brought in to continue coverage!) I don't recall any momentary blackouts of the transmission, and if "Crome Dome' hadn't walked into the room, Baker and I most likely would not have noticed a damned thing. But because of his and the other people with him, and their excitement, we did notice. And because one man made a point of pointing out that we could lose our jobs if we revealed anything we had seen, under "National Security" restrictions, I most likely wouldn't have remembered the incident. THEY were the reason I sat down at the Fire Department's old IBM Selectric with Courier Ball, and typed out the report; times, date, place and with individuals involved." From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> To: ufoupdates.nul Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Secrecy News -- 04/13/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:56:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:15:11 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/13/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 34 April 13, 2005 ** CLASSIFIED DEFENSE SPENDING CONTINUES TO GROW ** STATUTORY AUTHORITIES OF THE DNI (CRS) ** HALLIBURTON AUDIT DATA SUPPRESSED ** IKONOS VIEWS SPACE SHUTTLE DISCOVERY CLASSIFIED DEFENSE SPENDING CONTINUES TO GROW Classified spending in the proposed 2006 defense acquisition budget totals about $28 billion, according to an analysis by the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments (CSBA). That is nearly double the amount in real dollars that was spent in fiscal year 1995, which was the post-Cold War low for classified defense spending. Since 1995, classified Defense Department spending has grown even faster than the overall defense acquisition budget, which itself grew by 60 per cent, CSBA reported (www.csbaonline.org). See "FY06 Classified Funding in the Defense Budget Request" by Stephen Kosiak, CSBA, March 28: http://tinyurl.com/3wgvd and "FY06 Black Budget Estimates," March 28: http://tinyurl.com/4yb4b >From a public policy perspective, the concern raised by classified spending is that it sharply diminishes the quality and quantity of independent oversight, and provides a hospitable environment for corruption, waste or mere incompetence. "Effective immediately, I do not want anyone within the Air Force acquisition community discussing any of our programs with the media (on or off the record)," wrote Darleen A. Druyun, a senior Air Force acquisition official, in an October 2001 email message: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2001/10/druyun.html In retrospect, Ms. Druyun's devotion to strict secrecy appears to be something less than patriotic. Last year, she was convicted of corrupt practices and was sentenced to nine months in the Marianna, Florida women's prison. STATUTORY AUTHORITIES OF THE DNI (CRS) The specific authorities granted by statute to the Director of National Intelligence are "substantially stronger" than those enjoyed by the Director of Central Intelligence, but whether they are sufficient to the task is not clear, according to a new report from the Congressional Research Service. See "Director of National Intelligence: Statutory Authorities," Congressional Research Service, April 11: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/intel/RS22112.pdf "I will seek to make the fullest possible use of these authorities," Amb. Negroponte told the Senate Intelligence Committee yesterday in a vague, sometimes cliched presentation. A copy of his prepared statement is here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_hr/041205negroponte.pdf HALLIBURTON AUDIT DATA SUPPRESSED Data showing that Halliburton had overcharged more than $200 million for its work on Iraqi oil contracts were withheld by the Bush Administration from international auditors responsible for overseeing the contracts, Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) reported this week. "Both the amount of Halliburton's overcharges and the extent of the information withheld from the auditors at the International Advisory and Monitoring Board (IAMB) are much greater than previously known," the Waxman analysis stated. In an April 11 letter to Rep. Christopher Shays (R-CT), Rep. Waxman cited several classification and information policy experts who agreed that "contractor overcharges are not proprietary information that can be withheld" from disclosure. See "DOD Audits: Halliburton Overcharges Top $212 Million," House Government Reform Committee Minority Office (www.democrats.reform.house.gov), April 11: http://tinyurl.com/5zspj IKONOS VIEWS SPACE SHUTTLE DISCOVERY Space Imaging, Inc. has released a satellite image of space shuttle Discovery on the launch pad at Kennedy Space Center in anticipation of the forthcoming shuttle launch sometime between May 15 and June 3. It will be the first shuttle mission since the Columbia accident in February 2003. The new image, captured by Space Imaging's Ikonos satellite on April 8, may be seen here: http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/discovery.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine From: A.J. Gevaerd <Brazilian UFO Magazine <ufo2005.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:06:28 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:24:15 -0400 Subject: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine Ashtar Sheran -- Is there such an alien or is he only a fantasy of creative minds? A comprehensive sociologic, historic and scientific study of its origin and interaction with mankind, as reported by people over the last decades. By Rogerio Chola [rogerio.chola.nul] and Laura Elias [laura.elias.nul]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: UFOs And The British Royal Air Force - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:37:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:26:00 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs And The British Royal Air Force - Groff >Source: Phenomena Magazine >http://tinyurl.com/3wxvt >Wednesday, April 13, 2005 >UFOs And The British Royal Air Force >Close Encounters of the British Kind >Dateline: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 >By: Nick Redfern >Phenomena Co-Editor >As someone who writes books on UFOs, cryptozoology, and >conspiracy theories, and as Phenomena co-editor as well as a >contributor to a variety of other publications, I am often >asked: How did you become interested and involved in the worlds >of the unexplained and the paranormal? >I figured that with the question posed on what is a fairly >regular basis, it might be a good opportunity to provide the >answer. >It was 10.30 p.m. on a dark Wednesday evening in late 1978 as I >walked with my father, Frank Redfern, through the deserted >streets of the town of Walsall, England. I had the pleasure of meeting Frank Redfern during his 2004 visit to Dallas. He is a delightful gentleman and quite the ladies man :-) We never discussed UFOs but rather Music since he was attending
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Science & Faith - Salla From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> <exopolitics@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:54:18 -1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:31:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith - Salla >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:55:32 EDT >Subject: Re: Science & Faith >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:06:56 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:08:23 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >>>>Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research <snip> Aloha Brad, you raise some good points in your email and I'll do my best to reply. Let me be the first to say I don't have all the answers to the issues we are tackling here. I can point out the erroneous thinking in accepted research practices when it comes to UFO research and make suggestions that incorporates alternative sources such as whistleblower reports. But ultimately, I can only point to the right research questions to ask, rather than answering them all myself. >We're still waiting for the "social science criteria" for >"analyzing" UFO data and stories that doesn't short circuit all >critical thinking as your "approach" perversely advocates. Your >siren song calls for us to all leap off the cliff in a mass >suicide of the critical mind. Few are willing to take that jump. The key issue here is what constitutes 'critical thinking'. I think one is engaging in critical thinking when identifying the key premises that contextualize UFO research. Here a key premise is that national security agencies are distorting, removing 'hard evidence' concerning UFOs. This then becomes the basis for producing methodologies and rigorous social science criteria for dealing with this 'distorting factor' as far as possible. Kind of like developing a refractive index for different mediums through which light passes. That's not 'jumping off a cliff' as you insinuate, just a logical outcome from an accurate appraisal of the distorting medium in which UFO research is occuring. Some researchers such as John Mack, Steven Greer, etc., have developed social science criteria for working with whistleblower and abductee/contactee testimonies. These criteria are fluid and open to improvement but this is a task that can't be avoided due to the distorting factors in the field. Let me repeat, that's not 'jumping off a cliff' but proceeding with the best research tools for dealing with a very tricky and deceptive set of problems created by the national security agencies that leading up the UFO cover up. Your version of critical thinking comes from accepting the premise that we need hard evidence as the fulcrum upon which to base UFO research and analyses. That is a parsiminious method since it effectively leaves researchers focusing on those aspects of the UFO phenomenon where hard evidence can be found. Where there isn't sufficient hard evidence, that information/testimony is put into the gray box or simply dismissed. This effectively means UFO researchers ignore addressing the key national security policies that are in place dealing with the UFO phenomenon (i.e., black projects involving reverse engineering ETVs and collaborating with EBEs) and are left to haggle over methodologies, evidentiary standards, credibility, etc., for the hard evidence. Basically, your research method advocates working with what we have in terms of hard evidence in the hope that we'll eventually get parts of the UFO puzzle right and work out the other parts of the puzzle in terms of what the military is really doing in its black projects, etc. That to me is really a faith based approach. You and other veteran UFO researchers are advocating that we "jump off a cliff" and follow your blind faith that hard evidence will lead the way to conclusive statements about UFOs and the ETH. You and other veteran UFO researchers have been advocating this faith based approach for over five decades and expect a new generation of researchers to fall in line and except your misplaced faith in the scientific investigation of the hard evidence that can be found in the field. >In UFOlogy, there is the fundamental scientific requirement, the >Hynek Screening, to eliminate conventional explanations for a >UFO case by scientific-technical analysis before it can be >accepted as a "UFO" and even then it will be a provisional >determination subject to further investigation. The burden of >proof is on the claimant, not on the critically thinking >screener. Yet your approach calls for uncritical acceptance of >all purported "whistleblower" claims merely on the claimant's >say-so. Hynek proceeded from the misplaced premise that UFO research could be conducted in the same way a normal scientific investigation is conducted on empirical phenomenon. He assumed that the investigative process can proceed without being undermined by national security agencies. While he and other veteran researchers accepted that there was a political cover up underway, they assumed that their scientific method could deal with this without being compromised. He didn't appreciate that the national security agencies (again I include the military here!) are doing more than just covering up the UFO phenomenon (a 'soft' coverup), that there is a well coordinated and professional campaign to remove evidence, intimidate witnesses, discredit whistleblowers etc. (a 'hard' coverup). Hynek and others didn't want to consider the true extent to which national security agencies are doing this since it would compromise their research methodology. So Hynek's fundamental scientific requirements might appeal to researchers who admit to a soft cover up of the UFO evidence, but his methods are woefully inadequate for those accepting a hard political cover up is underway. >If someone claims they worked for the government and saw aliens >conversing with government officials, then you want us to accept >such outlandish claims right from the outset. Why do you assume these claims are 'outlandish'? I think the correct research approach is to accept that this is interesting testimony that needs to be investigated. It seems you want to jump to conclusions before even investigating such testimonies. >If they do prove >they worked for the government then you insist that proves their >alien stories are true (a logic error). You are correct, proof that someone like Charles Hall worked at Nellis AFB doesn't prove his stories are true. We need to investigate his claims and other whistleblower claims with solid military/corporate credentials as far as possible to determine their credibility. At some point, one makes a conclusion as to whether a whistleblower is credible based on the available hard evidence which may not be very much at all. Hall for example has no photos, physical material, corroborating witness testimonies to support his claims about the Tall Whites and the USAF. Once a decision about a whistleblower has been reached in terms of their credibility, then its appropriate to do an exopolitical analysis of their claims. That's important to do since people like Hall give us a bird's eye view of what's happening in the world of black projects. We ignore such testimony at our peril. I think Bruce Maccabee's recommendation that exopolitical analysis can go ahead and we simply accept that this is different to what conventional UFO researchers do is a sensible way forward. Ultimately, I'm an (exo)political analyst; haggling with you and others over correct research methodologies. An important task and I'm willing to do it, but I'm more interested in the exopolitical implications of the testimonies that whistleblowers like Hall have to offer. >Suddenly now you forget >all your protests that the "national security agencies" use >"disinformation" to "tamper" and "distort" and "discredit" >witnesses -- when it comes to _believing_ the alien stories. >Suddenly the alien stories are automatically immune from being >themselves the "tampered" distortions planted by the government >as "disinformation" and in your warped "methodology" these alien >stories can only be true and cannot be government-manipulated >lies. This is exactly what a government propaganda expert would >advocate - believe the lies. <snip> You make a good point here. This is something that has to be factored in when investigating whistleblower allegations. >>>Once again, it's the "national security agencies" (such as CIA) >>>who have "instructed" the "military" (USAF) to do the evil >>>deeds. Like the previous propaganda theme analysis I posted, we >>>see the continuing pattern here: CIA bad. Military good. >>I use 'national security agencies' as a generic term to cover >>the 'military' and civilian intelligences agencies such as the >>CIA. >You say that here but everywhere else your writing makes out the >military as "courageous" and the CIA as the sinister agency >putting up "ABC/Disney" to spew out "disinformation" in the >recent Peter Jennings UFO program, etc. You do not criticize the >USAF for the Roswell coverup or any other aspect of UFO history. >And you manage again in this posting to give the USAF another >approving backslap. Apparently you cannot find anything to >criticize about USAF performance or behavior in regards to its >handling of the UFO issue. And you apparently can find no >"courageous" CIA "whistleblowers" to tout, it's only the >military who has them, judging from your writings. I'm not sure why you are alleging I'm a USAF supporter and am depicting the CIA as the bad guy. The military and civilian agencies such as the CIA collaborate by performing certain functions when it comes to the UFO phenomenon. While some functional areas are more odious than others (e.g., raising non- appropriated revenue for funding black projects), the CIA and military are part of a secret and massive infrastructure that conducts a 'hard cover up' of the UFO phenomenon. There are reformers and progressive forces in all the agencies who presumably are assisting in leaking documents, and not pursuing the 'full range of options' for dealing whistleblowers who break security procedures. There is also evidence of an acclimation program that would be supported to different degrees by various factions in military and civilian agencies managing the UFO phenomenon. I believe Hall is being allowed to come forward with his testimony. We can speculate about the motivations of the agencies doing this, and the goals that some factions might have in allowing some whistleblowers to come forward, and silencing others. <snip> >You still can't bring yourself to criticize the USAF. And the >USAF was not the only agency to come to a favorable though >temporary pro-ETH conclusion, as the CIA did the same in Dec >1952. The additional data on the first version of the Estimate >of the Situation was published by Keyhoe in 1973 and >supplemented by my interview of Keyhoe in 1979. You clearly are >uninformed about the policy history and available data on the >EOTS to know nothing about Keyhoe's vitally important data. Well you'll have to include Michael Swords and Richard Dolan here since it was their works which led to formulate my views about Gen Vandenburg and his dismissal of the Estimate of the Situation in Oct 1948. Dolan doesn't mention General Craigie who you claimed earlier dismissed the Aug 5 version of the EOTS. Dolan lists Keyhoe's 1973 book in his UFOs and the National Security State, so that suggests that he didn't find Craigie's role significant for the EOTS conducted by the Project Sign team, nor did Dolan come up with an Aug 5 submission date which you are suggesting. While Swords didn't include Keyhoe's book in his article on the EOTS, he did a thorough job and doesn't ever mention an Aug 5 submission date, nor does Gen Craigie figure prominently in all this. >Keyhoe reiterated that he saw a copy of the EOTS with the >Pentagon received stamp date of Aug 5, 1948, the document signed >off by the two AMC colonels in charge of the AMC Intelligence >Dept (McCoy and Clingerman). Ruppelt's more complete unpublished >manuscript has a fuller account of the EOTS review and rejection >process indicating it was rejected before it ever reached >Vandenberg. The published book has edited this to sound like it >was only Vandenberg doing the rejection, and pieces of the >fuller version still survive in the published book as when it >says the AF "high command" had rejected the EOTS. And of course >it is the unpublished Ruppelt manuscript that specifically >states that the last case included in the revised EOTS was a Los >Alamos sighting of Sept 23, 1948. So this was the Second EOTS, >not the First EOTS of Aug 5, 1948. I have ordered a copy of Keyhoe's Aliens from Space (1973) and will have to get back to you on how Keyhoe's testimony fits in with what Dolan and Swords had to say. Do you have the reference of your interview with Keyhoe where he discussed the EOTs? I'd be grateful if you could forward me a copy if an email version is available. Thanks. ><snip> >>>Lots of talk about "tampering" and "tainting" of evidence and of >>>"distorting" and "discrediting" witnesses and evidence ><snip> >>Interesting that you want to dismiss evidence of 'evidence >>tampering'. >I have said no such thing. I pointed out you are the one doing all >this talking about "evidence tampering" yet you haven't presented >any evidence, let alone credible evidence, of any "evidence >tampering." JANAP 146 has nothing to do with "tampering" >only with suppression or secrecy, by the way (see below). I don't see how anyone doing serious research on the UFO phenomeon could honestly claim that there is no evidence tampering. What do you call the whole saga involving the Roswell incident and the so called weather balloon story that was concocted to dismiss Col Jesse Marcel's original story on a flying saucer crash? What do you call subsequent USAF press releases where items from a crashed weather balloon were displayed as what was really retreived from Roswell and therefore forming the basis for later allegations of a cover up under way. There are also numerous cases of claims by whistleblowers that have alleged 'evidence tampering' in the form of removing evidence. Leonard Stringfield has written extensively of these events. Whistleblowers such as Clifford Stone, Daniel Salter, Steve Wilson, et al., claim that evidence is regularly removed and tampered with from crash retrieval sites. There is also the Majestic Document, SOM-01, which outlines procedures for evidence tampering by crash retrieval specialists. I could go on but there is much testimony that can be cited on the 'evidence tampering' that is occuring. ><snip> >You are the one caught in a circular argument. Your proof of >"evidence tampering" comes from the very same "whistleblower" >evidence you seek to prove. If evidence is being "tampered" with >and "distorted" by the government and that evidence includes >the so-called "whistleblowers" then they are doubly suspect, and >you've blown up your own case from the very outset. I am not seeking to prove whistleblower testimony. I am saying we need to investigate these as thoroughly as possible despite the lack of hard evidence and corroborating testimonies to support their specific allegations. Once we are satisfied with their credibility, we can start doing some exopolitic analysis. Dismissing whistleblower testimonies concerning the systematic tampering of 'hard evidence' and witness intimidation on the basis of them lacking hard evidence and corroborating witness testimony is logically inconsistent. You are using a circular logic in advocating we stick to the standard 'scientific methodology' of hard evidence and corroborating testimonies to confirm whistleblower testimonies. We need a different methodolgy here to deal with the 'hard coverup' that is occuring. I don't have all the answers to the appropriate criteria, I can only point you to the door by asking the right questions, but you have to walk through it if you want to really makes sense of the UFO phenomenon. Respectfully,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 LMH Report On Dog Mute From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:52:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:34:55 -0400 Subject: LMH Report On Dog Mute I reported this case and the sheep mutilation case to Linda Howe a couple days ago. She now has both on her website, no credit given, but perhaps she heard about them elsewhere. Anyway, there is an autopsy report on the dog and interview with the owner on her site. This looks like a genuine, classic mutilation, folks. As I suspected, the two holes in the pup's head were NOT bullet holes. Also, there were no tracks or disturbed areas of any kind around the animal. WARNING: Graphic photos. See: Earthfiles.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 'Light' Over Vatican Just Before Pope's Funeral? From: eleanor.nul Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:58:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:35:58 -0400 Subject: 'Light' Over Vatican Just Before Pope's Funeral? Here's the quote from Whitley Strieber's email newsletter: "Light Over Vatican: early in the morning before the Pope's funeral, a huge light appeared over the Vatican. The object was taped via network feed and appeared live on many US TV
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:50:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:40:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research - >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:13:48 -1000 >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >>From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:47:41 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >>>Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >>>Science and Faith Based Approaches to UFO Research >><snip> >>Dr. Salla, >>I am a relative newcomer to the public UFO effort, having lurked >>around the community now for nigh on a decade. As you do >>cogently point out, there often is a two-camp nature to Ufology: >>The Conspiracy Theorists and the Scientists. >Aloha Craig, >Terminology is important. It's perhaps better to describe the >two camps as 'political realists' and 'nuts and bolts >specialists'. Now, be careful how you generate terminology. I certainly hope you are not implying that we 'nuts and bolts specialists' aren't also realists. > Both use legitimate methodologies appropriate from >the social and physical sciences. The debate is often framed in >terms of who has greater fidelity to 'hard evidence' and >therefore as a corollary is more scientific. I'm not entirely sure that was the point of debate here, at least between you and me. >This is illusory as >I've said due to the distortion that is happening in the UFO >field. It is not at all illusory if reports and evidence are directly piped to and analyzed by such groups as MUFON, Skywatch, et al. My argument in that case is that mitigation of the distortions that DO exist (including cover-up ops) can be achieved by investigative rigor and pursuit of fundamentals. The latter mitigating task refers to the actual attempt to derive the mechanism of UFO operation and the physical realities of abduction accounts. >My argument is that those who don't consider this >distortion are really following a faith based approach to UFOs >and not conducting a scientific enquiry at all. I understand your concern with faith-based Ufology, but that flawed path runs both ways. I think your fixation on the potential cover-ups is a symptom a =93faith=94 that the most serious data holes in the field of study stem from data tampering of some flavor. My disagreement with you starts and ends there. >>Now, don't get me wrong. I don't discount the value of pondering >>and trying to unravel possible conspiracies against the >>otherwise very open field of UFO study. I have serious doubts >>about what the official lines from the governments really >>signifies, and everyone must carry a mammoth grain of salt to >>deal with it all. >>But, you propose that it is a zero-sum game. That's just not the >>case. >That's a good point. I don't believe in zero-sum games myself. >So I'm definitely open to combining the two approaches. >>I think the insistence of "hard evidence" is of the greatest >>importance to deriving the truth of the UFO phenomenon, all >>outside interference not withstanding. >That's where I have to disagree. It's an illusion to point to >one aspect in the investigatory process, ie., hard evidence, and >make it the necessary condition for truth about the UFO >phenonemon. Oh, it's necessary, all right. You can dream up any conspiracy theory you wish, and one may even by correct, but if you can't prove it or otherwise use it to your advantage with information that is real, you are wasting your time. Hard data must accompany discovery, or it is not discovery. <snip> >'Hard evidence' at best is a 'facilitating condition' >for truth, not a necessary condition at all. Only if you make up truth. <snip> >If political elites wanted to dream up a >new ideology that sustains certain social and economic >practices, they could do so easily without hard facts to back >them. Non sequitur. We aren't trying to dream up UFOs, any more than dreaming up a sandwhich provides me with lunch. >So we need to focus on the legitimating discourses that >contextualise social, political and economic processes >associated with the UFO phenomenon. The dismissal of the ETH is >part of a legitimating discourse that enables a hidden >infrastructure of black projects that deal with ETs to continue >without oversight by elected representatives and the general >public. <snip> If I agree with your assumptions about black projects and shadow forces actively getting in the way, I can scarcely disagree -- if ANYHTHING can remove the roadblocks, then by all means get to it. But as a nuts-n-bolts kind of ufologist, this means little to my work unless the MIB come knock down my door and steal my information. I am by no means criticizing your focus; somebody has to do it. But not everyone. My day job is in a field that is highly compartmentalized technically, precisely because the technical challenges are too large for one person to grasp them all. The same is true of Ufology, and that is why I personally cannot stretch myself to the four corners of the universe trying to keep my arms around the entire field. So I stick with the technical aspects, as that is my forte. For you and people such as yourself, focusing on the roadblocks is valuable, and is appreciated. >>With that in mind, hard science, physical data, firm analysis - >>It is ALL crucial to discovery. >As I said earlier, 'hard science', 'physical data' are >facilitating conditions to truth about the UFO phenomenon. We >are not in the realm of pure science when it comes to UFOs. We are not in the realm of pure science when it comes to ANY field of endeavor. There are always non-scientific distractions that exist for anything, and bogging down on them is perhaps the most common hindrance to progress. <snip> >Unfortunately, UFO research has been dominated by those using >physical sciences methodologies, this needs to be corrected. I must disagree, MORE physical science is needed. There is far too little, and on the flipside there is an overabundance of paralyzing conspiracy theories to jump at, and absurdly that may even be by design. For me and my limited number of neural connections, I will have to stick with working on filling up the still vacant buckets of technical theory in Ufology. For what it's worth, I find all of the potential conspiracies to be fascinating, and intriguing. The gov't is hiding something, all of them eventually do, and in regards to ufology it's been particularly strange to see them stumble so obviously over the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:05:12 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:52:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Ledger >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:26:11 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>I don't think they [the astronauts] were in Hadley Rill. This >>might have occurred during EVA 2 excursion at Station 6. To most >>people regardless where the astronauts were on this mission the >>were "in" Hadley Rill. These fire specialists probably thought >>the same thing. >I also re-read my copy of the 'National Geographic' (September >1973) which contained the article 'What Is It Like To Walk On >The Moon' by Apollo 15 Commander David R. Scott (he says he fell >down several times) and I contacted a close friend who had >joined the other Apollo 15 moonwalker, Jim Irwin, on several >expeditions to Mount Ararat in search of Noah's Ark for any >hints of an encounter with an alien intelligence on the Moon but >came up with nothing in support of this story by the former NASA >employee. Even if it is established that a "crypto" room did >exist which had restricted entry and that there were pictures of >UFOs or spacecraft (real or from science fiction) adorning this >room, so what? All such stories, based on faulty memory and and >personal interpretation have elements of truth too. Hi Nick, We, all of us, are always going to have the plausible deniability barrier to deal with. How would we ever know if this stuff did happen. If it is believed, and many do, that there is a hard core componant to the UFO phenomenon, whether it be ETH or some leakthrough from an M-brane 1/16th of an inch away from all of us, then I would find it extremely unlikely that the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs would have gone on without encountering these things. I'll not mention the Soviet space program and their anomalies. Jim Oberg mentioned that he found it ludicrous that the MOCR would be cleared by NASA officials while two astronauts were EVA. Incidentally, I asked Hatten about this and he thought there might have been a couple of tecks, still in the room. I found it ludicrous that NASA's top level engineers didn't know [apparently the mid-level engineers did and tried to be heard] or guess that 3 pounds of styrofoam moving at 500 miles per hour would damage the shuttle when a 6 ounce sparrow will go through the windshild of a Piper J-3 Cub travelling at 75 miles per hour. A lot of my pilot buddies were shaking their heads when the engineers displayed shock during the tests. It's not like there isn't/wasn't a 101 year history of airplanes and bird strikes. I'm not claiming this Hadley Rille event happened. What I'm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Introduction/Linda Cortile Case From: Steven O'Mullan <p0werslave666.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:32:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:54:55 -0400 Subject: Introduction/Linda Cortile Case Hello, sorry don't know much about the etiquette on the List so just an email to say hello, my name's Stevie, from Scotland. I've searched the net but can't find any recent news on the Linda Cortile case - are there any updates? For instance, the son John must now be about 23. Has he spoke out about the case at all? Has anyone conclusively debunked the whole thing? Did Dan and Richard ever become "unmasked"? Sorry if this is old, -old_ news but I can't find much on it other than stuff from years ago.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: The NASA Moon Photos - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:53:56 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:58:25 -0400 Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos - Sparks >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:15:34 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:16:19 EDT >>Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >>In the early 70's I got to read something like 140,000 pages >>of Apollo mission transcripts ... >Holy cow! What are you, some sort of Evelyn Wood Master's >student? How many years would it take most of us to read that >many pages!? I am in awe! >Okay, really. How did you read that many pages? It may have been 160,000 pages, I did a page-count estimate somewhere. It took me many half-day and all-day sessions at NASA from 1970 to 1974 and I took detailed notes of the interesting things reported, especially any hint of coverup or subterfuge. There was never anything like - and I'm making this up as a hypothetical: "We see a bogey over the ridge! Switch to Channel B [gap in transcript]." There was, however, a private channel of communications not transcribed into the public transcripts or broadcast to the public, for sensitive medical and other discussions. I recall that I asked to see the technical air-to-ground
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Imaginary Traumas - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:45 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:02:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas - Randle >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:18:22 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:03:31 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:34:10 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> I am interested in the double standard that operates in UFO research. When Budd Hopkins says that he knows that abductees suffer from no sort of mental defect or psychological problem, no one says "what are your statistics?". No one cares that the sample he used was of nine people he selected. Yes, I know that these sorts of tests are expensive, but the point is that we have no real, scientifically valid study, just the small little tests run. The sample was not random and it was too small. When David Jacobs suggests what is the typical abduction, based on his research and published it in his book, I am told to produce statistics to back up what Jacobs wrote. Clearly, it is Jacobs who should supply that information and it was Jacobs who produced the information about the typical abduction that so closely resembles sleep paralysis. So, now we are back to a challenge for me to do my own homework. Others can make claims, pretend not to understand that I have done the work, and that I have supplied the paths for them so that they don't have to rely on my typing. Still, that is not enough. And if I write here that we used 316 abductees in our sample, the next challenge will be, how did you determine they were abductees. As I mentioned in another post, there is no universally accepted definition of an abductee, but that didn't matter here. We used those identified by other researchers to create our sample. Of those, nearly 50% reported that their initial experiences mimicked sleep paralysis. That is, about half reported an experience that was vague, that was fragmented, and that involved both paralysis and the belief that something was in the room with them. Under hypnosis, these fragmented memories developed into complete abductions with a craft, alien creatures and all the other elements of alien abduction. And, once again, these were the same people who have been identified by other researchers including Hopkins, John Mack, Jacobs, Yvonne Smith, John Carpenter and others. In Bullard's study, which contained fragmentary information and was more of a statistical analysis than anything else, 16% of those reporting abduction had an initial experience that mimicked sleep paralysis. That figure is flawed because in many of the cases in the survey, there wasn't enough information to determine what had precipitated the belief the witness had been abducted. Those numbers seem to be significant and not the 1% of a 1000 cases you have cited, through you provided nothing to suggest where those figures came from. Stan's comment, which I interpreted to mean that he rejected sleep disorders as a viable explanation for abduction because there are those who were non horizontal when they were abducted, really meant nothing. Because there are those who say they were awake when abducted does not negate those who had been asleep and who might have experienced sleep paralysis. I suggested that cataplexy. R. J. Campbell wrote, for his dictionary of psychiatric terms, "A benign neurologic phenomenon, more probably due to some temporary dysfunction of the reticular activating system consisting of brief episodes of inability to move and/or speak when awakening or less commonly, when falling asleep. There is no accompanying disturbance of consciousness, and the subject has complete recall for the episode=E2=80=A6 The terms by which the phenomenon has been known are nocturnal hemiplegia, nocturnal paralysis, sleep numbness, delayed psychomotor awakening, cataplexy of awakening and post dormital chalastic fits." Campbell defined cataplexy as "temporary paralysis or immobilization loss of antigravity muscle tone without loss of consciousness, often precipitated by emotional excitement. Cataplexy is usually associated with narcolepsy." Campbell noted that "Cataplexy differs from sleep paralysis in that it occurs during daytime activities, often following the eruption of expressions of strong emotions such as laughter." There are those cases in which the subject reported the onset of paralysis while awake and could be the result of cataplexy. No one had done any research to suggest otherwise. We only have the definitions and the symptoms. It is an area that should be explored before it is rejected as well it may be, once the proper study is conducted. And there is the point. The research has not been done, but we are making assumptions about the viability of it without the benefit of research. So, you have been offered the statistics, and you have been offered the definitions. I have supplied, as well, the sources for those statistics and that information. So, do you reject the idea that sleep paralysis might explain some cases of alien
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:55:40 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:07:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches - Randle >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:06:56 -1000 >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:08:23 EDT >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >>>Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >><snip> >>We've seen no 'social science criteria" for "analyzing" data only >>excuses for _not_ analyzing and applying critical thinking to >>ludicrous and absurd stories from phony "whistleblowers" who >>are just whistling in the wind with their crazy tales. >Aloha Brad, and what sources do you use for your generalizations >here? Each 'phony whistleblower' as you put it has an >interesting tale to say which often lacks hard evidence to >validate it. Such individuals often have strong military >credentials with over twenty years service, eg., Robert Dean, >Phillip Corso, Clifford Stone, are they phoney because the hard >evidence can't be found to validate them or just difficult cases >to analyse requiring more flexible criteria by investigators or >(exo)political analysts? It doesn't take critical thinking to >come up with generalizations, but it does take one to come up >with specific objections to specific cases. While each "phony whistleblower" might have an interesting tale to tell, that doesn't mean the tale is true. And while there seems to be little or no hard evidence to support them, there is some hard evidence to suggest they are not telling the truth. Philip Corso claimed to be a colonel, explained that he had been promoted to colonel upon retirement, yet his military records does not reflect such a promotion. He claimed to have been the commander at the White Sands Missile Range yet all the commanders except for the very first, and one who took over temporarily have been generals. The White Sands website provides a list of the commanders and Corso is not on the list. He claimed, at one point, to have been a member of MJ-12 and was not (assuming that MJ-12 is a real committee) and he induced Senator Strom Thurman to write an introduction for his book claiming it was about his brushes with greatness, when it was about the Roswell UFO crash. Some pictures in his books of UFOs are well known fakes and if Corso was who he claimed to be, he should have known this. Interviewed on the radio with Frank Kaufmann, when there was a conflict, he bowed to Kaufmann who has since been proven to be a fraud. If Corso was who he claimed to be, he should have known about Kaufmann. His tale of seeing an alien body at Ft. Riley, KS, as the convoy made it's way from Roswell to Wright Field, is phony, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the way he was shown the alien body at the suggestion of his friend, when he should have turned his friend in for violation of security (Yes, I know you"ll say that it was his friend and he didn't want him to get into trouble, but just what in the hell was the friend doing going through classified crates anyway and how did he get access to them?) Cliff Stone managed to rise in rank to E-7, not all that impressive for a military career that lasted more than twenty years. In an article published in UFO magazine (Vol 13, No 6, 1998, and no, I"m not going to type in the article for two reasons=E2=80=A6 one, it's too long and two, that would be a violation of copyright) Stone claims that he had "never been trained as a clerk typist," yet his service record shows that about his only training in the Army (other than basic training) was as a clerk typist. He attended school at the USATC for eight weeks and was awarded the military occupation speciality (MOS) of "Clktypist 71B in 1968. He took an advanced NCO school for five weeks in 1982 and a one week school labeled as "headstart" in 1989. So, in other words, about the only training he did have was as a typist. His assignments, throughout his military career have one thing in common. They are all labeled as clerk or admin. None of the strange assignments he claimed and no holes in his record for such assignments. Oh, yes, his records were altered. I forgot. He claims, in this article that this did not stop him "from various times crawling out through our, what we called a "kill zone" which was 300 meters that was cleared in our perimeter all the way around the base camp. When crawling out of that kill zone, at nights and every now and then, I"d run into an enemy patrol or something of this sort and I would actually find myself shooting at the enemy and the enemy shooting at me." What utter crap=E2=80=A6 Where were the perimeter guards while he was crawling through the wire? Don Ecker, in that same issue of the magazine wrote, "This is where I think Stone's story breaks down: The idea that a single, unaccompanied American soldier would go crawling out through the wire, by himself, to play tag with the NVA or VC , and not have any sanctions from above strikes me as patently ridiculous." The first time I met Stone in his home in Roswell, he tried to convince us of his importance by going out to his car to retrieve some "Top Secret" documents. He carried them through the living room so that we could see the cover sheets on them. If he had left top secret material in his car, then he was going to jail. He also pointed to the sticker on his car noting that it was blue, suggesting to us that he was actually an officer. What he didn't know is that I knew that system had been changed so that all the stickers were blue and it was the small strip under it that denoted the rank. Stone's was the proper color for an NCO. I could go on listing Stone's claim to have been at the Kecksburg UFO crash recovery to his viewing (through a hole in the curtains) of the largely discredited alien autopsy film but what is the point? Let's talk about Bob Dean, a very likable man who rose to the highest enlisted grade of command sergeant-major, not an easy thing to do. Very few people reach that rank. However, his story of how he saw The Assessment (at least in one version) smacks of hoax. He said that he was the NCOIC at the command post one night and was having trouble staying awake. The OIC pulled The Assessment out of the Top Secret vault and gave it to Dean with the instruction to read it. That would keep him awake. Top secret documents are just not routinely handed to people to keep them awake. In another version, Dean suggested that when he arrived at SHAPE for a tour there, he learned the study was already underway and that having the required clearance, he often studied the pages while passing time in the quiet evenings. Except that having the required clearance didn't automatically give him a Need to Know, and without that, he wouldn't have had access to the document. His position at SHAPE certainly didn't require that he be brought in on something like The Assessment. But, like so much of the whistleblowers" testimony, Dean's breaks down because there is no corroboration for it, and in fact, there are some very disturbing aspects are it. Dean told researcher Tim Good that Fred Hoyle had worked as a consultant to The Assessment. When asked about this, Hoyle wrote that there wasn't an element of truth to the story. Compare this to the response of Robert Sarbacher, who, when asked about his touch with the crashed saucers story, told all who wrote or called that he did have some limited knowledge of it and that he had been quoted correctly in the past. There are other problems. Dean claimed that the French had duplicated The Assessment before giving it back to NATO and then had given it to the Research group G.E.P.A.N., except that the French left NATO in 1967 and G.E.P.A.N didn't exist at that time. The conclusion of Good's investigation was that The Assessment, as described by Dean, did not exist. Please note here that Tim Good is a UFO researcher and would not be party to the cover up. He would be at the front shouting about it, if it existed in this case. So, here we are, with three of the whistleblowers whose stories do not check out, with documentation that suggests they are not who they claim to be, and who can produce no hard evidence that they were where they claimed or saw what they claimed and about whom the evidence suggests they have been less than honest. Just why should we take anything that they say seriously?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Haith From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:24:29 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:15:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Haith >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:44:17 +0000 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission <snip> >I have been following this thread without saying anything just >to watch how it developed. My immediate reaction after first >reading the story was that this guy is exceedingly naive if he >thinks remaining anonymous is important. >The story contained ample, more than enough detail for anyone at >NASA (or any other interested agency) to easily identify him. So >he shouldn't be able to use fear of retailiation as any excuse >not to come forward with his name, current occupation, >credentials, documentation if any, etc., which normally should >be required in the first place to take a story like this >seriously. >I say put up or shut up. >There is no reason whatsover to take him seriously as it now >stands. Dick The fireman's sole reason for not giving his name and email was to shield him, at his request, from unnecessary hassle from people more willing to toss insults than investigate. Four members of this group who requested his details for serious investigation have been put in touch with him. He has already discussed this event with his full name and email address on another non-UFO forum so he's certainly not hiding away. Your 'put-up or shut-up' and 'no reason to take him seriously' comments Dick, represent exactly the kind of attitude likely to prevent whistleblowers coming forward, expecting and getting an unfriendly or even hostile reception. I agree this case raises many difficult questions but witnesses and their sensibilities must be respected.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? - Weber From: William Weber <wweber1.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:49:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:18:34 -0400 Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? - Weber >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:30:31 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>From: William Weber <wweber1.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:49:23 -0400 >>Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:29:16 -0400 >>>Subject: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>>I'm just going to put this out there because I think I have to. >>>However, I will not debate the value or validity of the >>>material. I firmly believe this is _strong_ evidence for UFOs >>>being _intelligently_ guided and makes a strong case for the >>>reality the abductees have testifying about for decades. >>>See for yourself: >>>http://www.virtuallystrange.com/aic/formation.html >>>Ladies and gents, you are cordially invited to make of this what >>>you will. As I said, I consider it compelling evidence. I am >>>dead certain others will consider it the product of a fevered >>>imagination. >>Take a look at the third paragraph, below, that mentions a >>'Z-shaped' formation. This seems at least somewhat similar to >>what you've described and placed in the graphic. You relate, >Although people do see order in random patterns, they do not >always see the same thing. What one sees as a 'Z-shaped' pattern >using a selective number of dots, another may see an Orthodox >cross or a German swastika when more of the dots are taken into >account. Would this imply that the later interpretations are >better than the former? Not necessarily - they could all be >wrong. One summer while driving I noticed a dark disk shaped >mass rapidly moving across the highway at the horizon. It slowly >changed shape and direction as if it was under intelligent >control. As I approached closer I was amazed when this UFO >turned out to be a dense flock of hundreds or thousands of black >birds! This story reminds me of the now infamous Jill Tarter 'moon sighting' segment in the Jennings documentary. It's amazing how easily you identified the picture as birds. I have no idea if the white dots are birds or UFOs, but I think the similarities between dot configurations and John's writing samples are interesting. I haven't checked the archives, but I remember talk of research on writing samples sometime in the past. Research comparing writing samples with each other as well as with pictures of UFO configurations seems reasonable - and _interesting_ - to me.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:54:25 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:22:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission - Ledger >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:44:17 +0000 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:26:11 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >I have been following this thread without saying anything just >to watch how it developed. My immediate reaction after first >reading the story was that this guy is exceedingly naive if he >thinks remaining anonymous is important. >The story contained ample, more than enough detail for anyone >at NASA (or any other interested agency) to easily identify him. >So he shouldn't be able to use fear of retailiation as any >excuse not to come forward with his name, current occupation, >credentials, documentation if any, etc., which normally should >be required in the first place to take a story like this >seriously. >I say put up or shut up. >There is no reason whatsover to take him seriously as it now >stands. Much of this went over my head. You reading the same stuff I did? I don't know where you got the anonymous bit from, Dick. His name is Dayne Hatten. I mentioned that on SDI and on this List several times. He mentioned it along with his friend Jim Baker's name in his testament which Dave Haith posted. He's 71 years old and feisty and still working. I don't think he gives a flying fart what NASA thinks. He worked there for some 15 years. "Put up or shut up"? About what? You lost me on that. I don't think there's any doubt of his working there. The Fire Safety people worked for the Wackenhutt Corp who were under contract to NASA. Even Jim Oberg noted Hatten's encyclopedic knowledge of the NASA complex. Jim's friend Richard Nieber, though denying he knew of the event, would probably remember Hatten. Like I said in a previous posting, regardless if Hatten was right and there was an event, does anyone think NASA would confirm it? Surely we've been around the block enough on these UFO cases and possible connections to the air forces or NASA or the government of your choice that it would be a real stretch to think they would say, "Oh yeah, that happened. Here's the documentation. You want to see the film?" In this case we are "maybe" talking about an event that took a couple of minutes - if that. Perhaps Jim Oberg could confirm or not whether his friend
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula - Warren From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:23:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:27:47 -0400 Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula - Warren >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:26:48 EST >Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula >>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:29:48 -0800 >>Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula >>>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:52:01 EST >>>Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula ><snip> >Good Day Paul, Et Al, >>>No ill effects here, probably because I took a neutral stance at >>>the time. As for those who have suffered, one could start with >>>Frank Scully (but, as that is my "stumbling block" I'll leave >>>him aside), and move straight to William Steinman and Wendelle >>>Stevens, neither of whom, to the best of my knowledge, has any >>>credibility with serious ufologists (anyone out there care to >>>disagree? stand up and be counted). >>Scully's book if I'm not mistaken, was a "bestseller." Moreover, >>most of his "infelicity" came from one man-J.P. Cahn; whose >>motives are dubious. Additionally, to disparage (saying this >>while standing) a man or woman's entire body of work because you >>disagree with a portion of it isn't prudent. What is more, I've >>never met any "flippant" Ufologists. Good Day Paul, Et Al, >Frank: >Yes, Scully's book sold well out of the gate (to call it a >bestseller is a bit of a stretch), but it's what happened >afterwards that counts. His book was thoroughly repudiated by >both critics and scientists, and then largely ignored by anyone >having anything to do with ufology. As for J. P. Cahn, I'd be >fascinated to hear where you get the allegation that his motives >were "dubious" from. Scully? In fact, Cahn was a respected >reporter, who had done meticulous research into the Aztec case, >something Scully neglected to do, and it caught up with him. And >my point re: Steinman and Stevens stands, in terms of the >credibility they have within ufology, which is what I was >talking about. I haven't heard anyone jump to their defence. >Have you? Hmmm... well it seems we agree that Scully's book was "successful enough" for the parties you cite i.e., "critics and the scientists" to be aware of it. Moreover, since the term "UFO" didn't exist when Scully's book was published, ergo referencing "Ufology" doesn't seem to apply. In regards to Cahn, I don't know what his motives were; if in fact they were genuine, or tainted in someway, but yes, Scully's claims evoke doubt, suspicion, along with the research of Steinman and Stevens. In answer to your question about "hearing anyone" jump to their defense, aside from Koi's offering of reference materials (thank you), I haven't heard anyone pro or con, unless I missed something. (Here on the list that is). <snip> >>>1. Virgel Riggs - I discount Riggs for the simple reason that he >>>is not a witness. He wasn't at the alleged crash, and never >>>claimed to be. >>If we were in court, your assessment of Riggs' "testimony" would >>be quite accurate; however, as I have repeatedly said before >>we're not. I understand that you have a legal background, and a >>"lawyer's eye"; that certainly is beneficial in Ufology; >>however, in this stage of the game instead of a "courtroom >>analogy," think "archaeology," where we are "digging" for the >>most "minute clues." >Frank, your analogy is hopelessly flawed. >This is not archaeology - this is witness testimony. The proper >analogy is a court of law, or at least the same methodology as >a historian would apply to evidence, which is, again, very similar >to that used in a court of law. >I admit, however, that it is convenient for you to keep claiming >we are not in a court, because, if we were, these witnesses >would simply have no merit. It's to bad Paul, that you are "not practicing law," as you certainly exhibit the traits; I didn't say, "this (Ufology) was archaeology," I said "think" archaeology!" If archaeology i.e., "the study of past human life and activities" doesn't apply to "historic UFO cases," then what does? If Ufologists, or scientists for that matter, went by the guide lines you seem to be suggesting, we'd be be falling off the edge of the flat earth! Investigation, and in particular "scientific investigation" begins with the observance of a phenomena; if we simply discounted all anecdotal stories, and or eyewitness testimony, where would we be? >>Riggs by the way has presented "military documents" >>substantiating the "existence of" as well as "his association >>with" the "un-named airman." He is very close to being found. >Frank, as you say, I'm only responding to what I've seen. If >Scott has new documents, let him bring them forward. If not, >then why talk about Riggs at all? A good investigator would wait >until all the evidence was in before publishing his conclusions. >It's how you avoid making a fool of yourse Thank you! This is what I've said from the start; rather then rehash the S, N & G dogma take a look at Scott's work. In regards to documents, he has just under "2300," and adds to that often. Unless you know something I don't (please share), Scott has never "published his 'conclusions!'" He was asked to write an article and complied. I do tend to agree though, it would be prudent for an investigator to wait until the "work is done" before voicing his theorem; that same forethought would be judicious for the frondeur as well. ><snip> >>>2. Anonymous - He's anonymous. I know you'll disagree, but for >>>me there's nothing more to be said. His testimony is worthless, >>>because we can't check it out. >>See above. What "I" have said about you Paul, is that "I respect >>your opinion, and your tenacity, as well as your skepticism, >>which I believe is a 'healthy thing' in Ufology." >I only wish more people involved in the Aztec case would employ >some of that "healthy scepticism". Most good researchers, "in my view" operate from a "skeptical stand point" as a matter of protocol; as far as Aztec is concerned, your in the majority. ><snip> >>>3. Fred Reed - Now I will grant that Reed is the one of the >>>three that claims to have been an actual witness. He maintained >>>that he was ex-OSS, and then part of the "clean-up team" that >>>was "sent to Aztec". His account, if it is to be believed (and >>>one must ask whether Scott or anyone else has done a thorough >>>background check on Reed) is interesting, but not because it >>>backs up the Aztec crash theory. Reed states that, "In 1948 they >>>were ordered to collect any foreign items they found (presumably >>>parts of a spaceship, if you buy the crash story), [and] bury >>>them eighteen inches deep." Does this make any sense? Would they >>>have not carted it all away, (a) so that no-one would ever find >>>it, and (b) so they could study it? If there was anything alien >>>on that mesa, then I cannot imagine the military / MJ-12 / the >>>Unholy 13 (a shout- out there to Major Randle) being so cavalier >>>/ stupid as to just bury it 18 inches down. Good lord - my dog >>>could find that! This account gives "crack team" a whole new >>>meaning, in that they must have been smoking the stuff if this >>>was the best they could do. So, Fred Reed? Worthless. >>The "OSS statement" is/was an error on "Scott's part"; it was >>erroneously published in his article, as well as your >>documentary. If your argument (to discount Reed's "so-called >>testimony") is based on the premise that the military is beyond >>culpability in acting without acumen, then said argument is on >>the same level of your opinion of the witness's statement. >No, Frank, my argument is that no super secret group, which, >according to Scott was made up of the best people they had (see >my film, wherein he states, in essence, "they learned from >Roswell, and so would not make stupid mistakes again."), would >bury alien material in 18 inches of desert dirt, for the two >reasons I cited. This is a point you seem to have missed, or for >which you have no answer. Again, Reed's testimony is worthless >as a result. You're confusing to different factions Paul; Reed was not part of the "top secret group;" he was part of a "clean-up crew" (my analogy) after everything was removed-he was not "need to know." He was, "ordered to collect any foreign items they found and then bury them eighteen inches deep; to �soft landscape� any areas where heavy equipment tracks were visible and to do an extensive survey on the entire mesa." He was under the impression at the time, that he was there "after an "airplane crash." The afore mentioned quote, "they learned from Roswell, and so would not make stupid mistakes again," was not from Reed! See your film! ><snip> >>>>Scott first heard about Aztec during a business trip to the area >>>>from locals that were going hunting; that story didn't originate >>>>from Frank Scully. ><snip> >>>The above proves nothing, other than, perhaps, that Scott's >>>buddies were pulling his leg which, in the absence of any >>>evidence to the contrary, makes as much sense (more, in my >>>opinion) than the crashed flying saucer story. ><snip> >>Scott's buddies? Are you speaking of the individuals he's >>uncovered via hard work, research and investigation? >Uh, no - it should be clear to all that I was referring to the >"locals" with whom he went hunting, and who you stated were the >ones who first told him the Aztec story. Once again, let me correct you - Scott did not go hunting with these people, "a customer he was calling on at that time had employed a large number of Navajo Indians from the local reservation; he overheard them talking about a meeting planned for the following Saturday to hunt for mule-deer near 'the old crash site.'" >>>You keep tossing the term "60 direct and indirect witnesses" >>>around. But where are they? Scott's article laid out five, that >>>I've dealt with (and, in the case of Farley and Nolan, will >>>comment on further below). >>Scott, has rightfully been protective of his work, and hopefully >>will be until it's completed. >The truth, Frank, abhors a vacuum. If you're going to say you >have 60 witnesses, then let people know who they are. If you're >not willing to do that, then just talk about the information you >are willing to release. Otherwise, all you're doing is issuing >propaganda, which cannot be responded to, because you're the >only one "with the info." This is not how a reasoned debate is >conducted. First, I would suggest you go back a few paragraphs and reread what you wrote: "A good investigator would wait until all the evidence was in before publishing his conclusions. It's how you avoid making a fool of yourself." I'm confused, it seems within the course of a few paragraphs you've reversed yourself (again). First you suggest it's prudent not to say anything (which I agree with), then you say, "if you're going to say you have 60 witnesses, then let people know who they are." Then you say, if you're not willing to do that, then just talk about the information you are willing to release. Huh? (If this is someone lawyer tactic to confuse me-it's working!) As far as propaganda is concerned it would seem that you have strayed from the position you took in making the documentary (neutral), and are now yelling from the bully pulpit. As far as a "reasoned debate" is concerned, I'm sure Scott would be happy to oblige when his work has concluded. >We have five witnesses that Scott has made public. They are, >until he makes the rest public, the only ones that are relevant. >Any discussion of other witnesses is useless, because we don't >know who they are. I don't think "any" discussion is useless, that's what this forum is for; however, to "draw conclusions" about Aztec (in reference to Scott's work, as well as the afore mentioned witnesses from what little has been publicized, certainly isn't prudent. (IMHO). >>>There are no such things as "direct" and "indirect" witnesses, >>>anyway. There are witnesses, ie. people who saw the event, or >>>participated in some aspect of it afterwards (like a cover-up), >>>and then there are people who are, at best, "hearsay" witnesses. >>>There's a reason that this latter group don't get to testify in >>>very many trials (although there are very specific, and >>>carefully constrained exceptions, to the hearsay rule). As much >>>as I know you don't think we're in a court, I will nevertheless >>>quote from Black's Law Dictionary (6th edition), about >>>witnesses, just so, again, I can be clear here, and avoid all of >>>these misunderstandings I seem to be having as of late: >>Pardon me, again I was using "lay" terms, not courtroom >>terminology. Yes, we're not in court, but if it makes you feel >>better, when Scott "completes" his investigation, I'm sure he >>will welcome any all "skeptical eyes" to scrutinize his >>sequitur. >The problem with "lay" terms is they have no precise meaning. >They can mean whatever an individual wants them to mean. If >ufology is ever to move forward, it needs to develop a proper >methodology, and a standard set of terms, so that everyone is >singing from the same choir. I don't know what your definition of "moving forward" is, but I have know argument with the latter. ><snip> >>The value of a witnesses' testimony is not predicated on whether >>it's in the public arena or not. >The value of a witnesses testimony can only be ascertained after >that testimony has been made public, so that it can be tested for >authenticity, credibility, and so forth. Too bad that judge didn't know that in the CAUS v CIA and CAUS v NSA lawsuits, or any of the presidents and or congressman past or present that have given "closed door testimony." >>Personally, I wish Scott wouldn't have made any witness names >>public. I don't believe, to use the analogy your so fond of, >>that he should present his case until he can do so in it's >>entirety; I present "you" as my "best evidence" in that regard. >Here I agree with you. An acceptable alternative would be to >say, "here is the evidence we have discovered so far, which is >sufficient to warrant further investigation/examination of the >case." This is the stance that my film took. Your sure? ><snip> >>>Nolan and Farley were both in very bad health, by Scott's >>>own account... >>So to surmise: Sticking with just the few witnesses mentioned, >>rather then "consider" the possibility that the "death bed" >>declarations of "independent witnesses" and corroboration of >>said declarations by the "similarities" in each account has >>"something to do with the content," i.e., that a "disc shaped >>craft" came down in Hart Canyon, you choose to believe it was >>either some grandiose "conspiracy hoax," or the delusions of >>"elderly stroke victims?" (Gives a new definition to the term, >>"believer"). >It's not a question of belief, Frank. With respect, you >obviously don't understand oral research methodology, the >influence that an interviewer can have on testimony, >particularly on an elderly interviewee, and the problems with >memory in stroke victims. Until we see the transcripts of the >interviews, we'll never know, will we, whether Scott asked >leading questions or not, or how the witnesses answered. So, if I understand you correctly, previously, you said, "I had access to all the relevant documents," and then said, "we have five witnesses that Scott has made public. They are, until he makes the rest public, the only ones that are relevant." Yet, you didn't see the "transcripts of his interviews" with said witnesses? Again, I'm confused; since these are the very people you've chosen to denigrate, wouldn't it be pertinent to inspect the the transcripts of the interviews of those very people when you had the opportunity? >Take the Discussion about the 1980s testimony given to Stan >Friedman by Robert Sarbacher. A transcript of that interview >exists. We can look at it to determine the types of questions >that Stan asked, whether he led Sarbacher to answers and tainted >the interview, or whether he asked neutral questions and let >Sarbacher provide the answers. We can also determine, to some >degree, as I pointed out elsewhere on Updates, whether Sarbacher >was being evasive, or forgetful, or whether he seemed to be >answering the questions to the best of his ability. This is an >absolute must for researchers to be able to judge the >credibility of the testimony offered. To my knowledge, Scott has >never released this information, although he talks at length >about what Nolan and Farley said. To be blunt, that simply isn't >good enough, particularly when there are reasonable concerns >raised as to their competence to give testimony, and the >objectivity of the interviewer. Certainly not good enough for me..... ><snip> >>>Frank, the critiques have been there for all to see - for >>>example, check out my blog on the radar bases, which, >>>apparently, you haven't bothered to read, but which Scott and >>>others have claimed provides proof of a crash at Aztec (see >>>Scott's MUFO paper). >>>And I'm not the one doing my homework?? >>Admittedly, I haven't read all of the content in regards to >>Aztec on your Blog; I respond to "what you say, where you say >>it." >Then you haven't been responding to "what I say" as I referred >people to my blog for a fuller explanation. I know it drives EBK >nuts, but to simply repeat the information here when it exists >elsewhere is a waste of his time in formatting it and mine in >sending it. I wouldn't expect you to repeat everything verbatim >that Scott wrote in his MUFON article - if you referenced it, as >you did, I would go look it up and read it myself before I >replied. To be specific, Paul, I meant that this discussion started here, and I have been responding to what you say here, "here!" Also, I have to disagree with you again, I don't believe your participation here is a waste of time. Moreover, for me I don't mind posting whatever is necessary to support my views for those that haven't fallen asleep reading our little contention. ><snip> >>>>In the end Paul there is only the data-it is neither good nor >>>>bad, it just is. >>>Frank, this is just ridiculous (or, as you might say, >>>"nonsensical"). Of course there's good data and bad data. The >>>objective observer is capable of telling the difference - that's >>>why things like rules of evidence, and oral research >>>methodology, come in handy. >>>Of course, to the "believers", to extend (and flip around) the >>>original analogy of this thread one more time, those things seem >>>to be the ufological equivalent of holy water to a vampire. >>Paul given your background, it's no surprise that you think as >>you do; of course there's nothing wrong with it either; however, >>this work is very much like archaeology, in the sense that we >>try to cull bits and pieces of information to assemble the >>larger picture. >Again, it's nothing like archaeology, unless you're actually >conducting archaeological research. It is historical research, >for which there is a methodology, which is, when dealing with >witness testimony, very similar to that used in a court of law. >You can only see the larger picture if you follow the proper >methodology and test the evidence as you find it; otherwise, >each time you deviate from the methodology, you skew the >picture, and move further from the truth. Ah semantics... I say "tomato"..... >>Think of Stan at LSU in 1978 when talking to a TV station >>director when he stumbled across the lead for Jesse Marcel. >>Think of how the "CT memo" was discovered etc. Think of the >>"first airing of "Unsolved Mysteries" show on Roswell and the >>flood of witnesses that responded to it. >>These little "bits and pieces" at first glance seem trivial, and >>some are; however, I often wonder where "Roswell" would be, as >>far as the public's "collective consciousness" is concerned had >>Stan not called Jesse the next day..... >Yes, and think of what would have happened if (a) Stan had gone >public with an anonymous witness (Marcel) instead of sharing >that information, as he did, with other researchers; (b) Stan et >al had not kept records of their interviews with Marcel and >others so that future ufologists wouldn't have to rely on Stan >et al's recollection of what they said, but could go directly to >the source, even after the witness was dead; and (c) Stan et al >had not conducted extensive background checks into Major Marcel >and the other witnesses (of which, again, with Roswell, there >were nowhere near as many as some have claimed) to determine his
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 14 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 15 - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:10:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:29:38 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 15 - McGonagle Hello Errol, List, >From: John Hayes <John.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:02:24 +0100 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 15 What? no earthquakes, dead clergy, rooftop gunmen, out-of-place or misbehaving animals, school killings, naked murderers, teenage bombers, weather reports, visions of the Madonna, etc.? Only
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: CI: Emphatically Still A Face From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:01:17 -0400 Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:28:45 -0500 Subject: Re: CI: Emphatically Still A Face >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:31:02 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: CI: Emphatically Still A Face >Cydonian Imperative >4-10-05 >Emphatically Still a Face >by Mac Tonnies >See: http://cydonianimperative.blogspot.com >NASA's Mars Odyssey craft has returned an impressive new photo >of the Face on Mars. The short of it: It's still a face. >http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/V10598012.html snip >The conclusion is quite plain: The Face, whatever its origin, is >very much face-like, despite the repeated "scotchings" doled out >by the mainstream skeptical establishment. Yup. It was like "having deja vu all over again" twenty five years after Molenaar and DiPietro's first book on the Mars face. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:42:05 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:30:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:30:44 -0300 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:22:37 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>Mr.Oberg replies: "I've been passing the story around to people >>.... >I assume you contacted Jim Oberg direct. I've relayed to Hatten >much of what I've found out about the excusions during the 3 >Hadley Rille EVAs. I communicated with him via another posting-type group not his direct email, but there is a high probability that it is him. He also had this to say regarding the "crypto" room: "I didn't arrive at JSC until 1975, but even then, security limitations in the MCC were pretty lax. Later when DoD missions were added to the shuttle, it took a lot of work to upgrade bldg 30 to handle even 'SECRET' level data. However, the main communications center in those days was on the second floor of bldg 1, the main administrative building. I don't know the level of any rooms within that section of the building. NASA did have some Top Secret stuff in those days, mostly personnel and financial files, but I don't know any reason why they wouldn't have been able to handle small amounts of such material - just that nobody in flight operations needed it much. Once in 1981 during STS-1 when there was concern over tiles fallen off the shuttle, there was supposed to have been DoD spy- sat images shown to top officials (no tiles were missing, they say) but apparently that happened in Bldg 1. But on a regular basis - the concept of a 'crypto room' in military usage - I really doubt there was any significant material or even need. But it's also possible somebody built the capability for those rare times it might be needed. Sorry to dance around the main question, but that's what I know from direct observation." That ends Mr.Oberg statement. I would like to add that in "Mission to the Moon: A Critical Examination of NASA and the Space Program", 1969, pg 228 it states that at the time of Apollo 7, the Department of Defense for the FIRST time demanded a seat on the NASA board selecting photographs for release, all because the film type/quality that was used on the mission was from Air Force reconnaissance satellites. The reason I imagine has to do with making sure the Soviets didn't know how good the images could be. So it is possible that at the time NASA did have some room were images of Earth were reviewed by joint NASA and DoD, although I think it likely the DoD would have given up after a while because of film/satellite advancements of other countries. >Hatten doesn't >pretend to be an expert on anything to do with the missions or >policy or protocols at NASA, just his own job and he's adamant >about what he saw. I have gone ahead and ordered the Apollo 15 DVD and will see if I can see anything during the EVAs. >But the other problem is that if this did happen, why would this >be any different than any other field of this bizzare >phenomenon. Yes, alot of weird stuff happens. But what are we supposed to do with his statement. Add it to the heap of UFO lore or try to examine it critically. It doesn't matter what he thinks about it, we already have his statement. We analyze it critically and if it has too many holes, toss it back on the lore heap with alot of other stuff. >Why would we expect the following: >1] The raw feeds to be available. Why would we expect that the footage has been removed from the NASA film data base? It is funny how people always claim that NASA has film, video and photos and actually show these to people, yet other people (sometimes the SAME ones!) say that NASA has time lags on the video in order to do realtime editting to _remove_ all the UFOs that are constantly buzzing the astronauts (worse that Florida mosquitos!). Lets be consistent! If NASA is so worried about national security to remove ANY UFO footage, then they would remove ALL UFO footage. How can they just do a half hearted attempt at UFO data removal? Remember this is real time. So they have to make a decision, in real time, that the "UFO" is really a UFO instead of a dust particular or lens flare. This is hard to do. I have seen alot of footage from Shuttle and ISS and I can see how some folk would think a flashing object in the video camera field of view would be a alien spaceship. But it is really "just" a UFO because it is hard to prove that it is just frozen/debris particles (unless you go out and retrieve it!). But NASA did not edit these out. Same goes for Apollo. I see lots of debris like stuff in that footage, not to mention that mysterious "disk" that was seen (which we finally resolved to be a part of the spacecraft) but they should have been all removed by the paranoid NASA/DoD types, right? And don't give me the story of "Well, they make mistakes sometimes." >2] Ed Feddell to admit that this happened. >3] Nieber to coorborate Hatten's story. People's memories may be unreliable. Given the long time and possible inconsequential importance of the event, they might have forgotten. >Whether the MOCR was ever evacuated at any time >during an EVA is moot. Like Errol mentioned on the >program. Over the period of a few minutes, what >difference would have made if there was a sudden >emergency on the Moon. What was Houston going >to do about it? I am sorry to see this kind of feeling because the whole reason you have guys on the ground watching all the time is to be able to save lives/mission. You don't do that by all walking out. >And of course Houston would have cut the live audio and video >feeds to the networks. See above. >>Re.the Saturn 5 rocket >>Yes, and I hear the plans were all destroyed. >>Presumably to prevent them from falling into enemy hands, a >>Saturn V would make a nice intercontinental missile. >That may or may not be true, as mentioned some time ago on this >List. And there is the one on display [I took some phoyos of it >last Spring while in Florida, though probably not 100 percent in >tact. Pretty difficult to steal that. Having a Saturn V but no 1000's of drawings/plans to build one would almost be as difficult to back engineer as an alien spacecraft. Have you ever seen these kind of blueprints? They are complex and describe processes not just dimensions to make the parts. Also, the production lines, original (and proably unique) manufacturing equipment was likely lost and somehow has to be thought up. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:43:20 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:45:19 -0500 Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> >To: <ufopdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:12:06 +0100 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >He seems confused over the two camera questions - the point >being of course that only one was actually 'live' Anyhow here >are his latest comments: Yes, he seems confused about this. >Witness statement: >"I went into the Auditorium at JSC with my wife in 1994, saw a >Lunar Rover in the display, right next to the Lunar Excursion >Module, commonly called the LEM, and the damned thing had two >cameras on it. One on the front and one on the back. I may have >been wrong on the actual locations, but the damned thing had two >cameras." So, the witness is basing this two camera business on his deductive reasoning that he saw two cameras on the rover in 1994(!), not due to the fact that he actually saw two camera feeds being displayed AND labelled on the large display screens. Therefore, there is likely some other reason for this illusion of two cameras. Maybe because one video was a playback and the other real time. Perhaps, they were playing back the "fall" or some other emergency event. >"I don't owe anyone an apology for what I originally wrote!" Who is asking for apologies? We are just here to help! >"It appeared that one camera, (and I thought it was on the left >front fender) had gone as far as it could go, and another had >been brought in to continue coverage!) I don't recall any >momentary blackouts of the transmission, and if "Crome Dome' >hadn't walked into the room, Baker and I most likely would not >have noticed a damned thing." "It appeared" means he is deducing. Note that in all pictures I have seen the video camera is on the driver's right front fender. The video camera (only one!) was sometimes getting tangled as it was put through its range of motion and had to be manually fixed by the astronaut (untangled). Also, the communications antenna had to be manually reset after the rover stopped. Elevation of the video camera had to be manually assisted because of clutch wear. >"THEY were the >reason I sat down at the Fire Department's old IBM Selectric >with Courier Ball, and typed out the report; times, date, place >and with individuals involved." Again with the statement! Give us the statement, times, dates! Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:48:47 -0400 Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:48:28 -0500 Subject: Re: SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 35 April 14, 2005 ** JUSTICE DEPT: ANY DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE MAY BE A WMD ** "UK POISON CELL" CASE UNRAVELS ** NEGROPONTE: CLASSIFICATION IS GOING DOWN ** CRS STUFF JUSTICE DEPT: ANY DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE MAY BE A WMD Almost any explosive device or weapon may be considered a "weapon of mass destruction" according to the Department of Justice. The Department announced on Tuesday that three British nationals had been indicted in New York for conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction, among other charges. http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2005/April/05_crm_180.htm At a press briefing on the indictment, an alert reporter asked Deputy Attorney General James B. Comey exactly which "weapons of mass destruction" the individuals had conspired to use. "Is there any implication in the use of that term that there was a biological or a chemical or a radiological element to the plan?" the reporter inquired. "We have not alleged that," Mr. Comey replied. But, he added, "a weapon of mass destruction in our world goes beyond that and includes improvised explosive devices." See (thanks to S): http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2005/04/doj041205.html This is an unconventional use of the term "weapon of mass destruction" that further relaxes its already expansive definition, which encompasses everything from thermonuclear explosives to willful releases of toxic chemicals. If improvised explosive devices also count as WMD, then not only did Saddam Hussein possess abundant quantities of WMD, but two years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, so do the Iraqi insurgents who are using them to kill American soldiers almost every day. On closer inspection, however, Mr. Comey's all-encompassing usage appears to have a basis in statute. According to 18 U.S.C. 2332a, which is cited in the latest indictment, a "weapon of mass destruction" includes "any destructive device." That in turn is defined in 18 U.S.C. 921 to include almost any type of weapon that is not "generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes." "UK POISON CELL" CASE UNRAVELS With the removal of a British government gag order yesterday, more details became public about the so-called "UK poison cell" that had been charged with conspiracy to use ricin in a terrorist plot (Secrecy News, 04/11/05). One member of the "cell" who had previously been convicted of murder was also found guilty of conspiracy involving the use of poison. The others were acquitted. Key elements of the case - including an alleged discovery of ricin - were found to be in error. "The claim that traces of the deadly poison ricin had been found in the London apartment of alleged al Qaeda operatives, first broadcast around the world in early January 2003" - and then echoed by Vice President Cheney, Secretary of State Powell, and others - "has been proved wrong, a senior British official said yesterday," the Washington Post reported today. See "London Ricin Finding Called a False Positive" by Walter Pincus, April 14: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49564- 2005Apr13.html George Smith of GlobalSecurity.org updated his account of the case to rebut a persistent prosecution claim (quoted credulously in the New York Times today) that methods of producing ricin and other toxins described in documents seized by the police "are scientifically viable and potentially deadly." "This is far from the case but since most are unfamiliar with the poison recipes in question, it is a claim that often goes unchallenged," Smith wrote. See: http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/nsn/nsn-050413.htm Secrecy News (04/11/05) mistakenly identified Dr. Smith as an expert witness in the UK trial. Although he consulted for the defense team, he did not testify. NEGROPONTE: CLASSIFICATION IS GOING DOWN In his Senate confirmation hearing to be the first Director of National Intelligence, Ambassador John Negroponte made the strange assertion that government secrecy is declining. In response to a question from Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR), Negroponte said "the trend in my lifetime has been to reduce the level of classification" (noted by the Washington Post and quoted by The New Republic). One may strain to find an element of truth in this remark. In the course of Mr. Negroponte's more than six decade lifetime, many things that had been highly classified have downgraded to a lower level of classification or declassified altogether - the workings of the atomic bomb, high-resolution satellite imagery, the aggregate intelligence budgets for 1997 and 1998, etc. Even so, Amb. Negroponte's statement reveals a disappointing lack of awareness of the steady expansion of classification activity over the past several years, and its adverse impact on government performance. In intelligence agencies in particular, classification policy has become "dysfunctional," Porter Goss, the current Director of Central Intelligence, told the 9-11 Commission in 2003. More broadly, "The federal government set a new record for keeping secrets in 2004, during which government employees chose to classify information a record 15.6 million times," according to an analysis by the public interest coalition OpenTheGovernment.org. See: http://www.openthegovernment.org/article/articleview/130/1/68/ CRS STUFF Some recent reports from the Congressional Research Service include: "Journalist's Privilege to Withhold Information in Judicial and Other Proceedings: State Shield Statutes," March 8, 2005, via the State Department's Foreign Press Center: http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/44110.pdf "Federal Research and Development Funding: FY2006," March 8, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32799.pdf "Social Security Reform," updated March 23, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IB98048.pdf "The Middle East Peace Talks," updated April 12, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB91137.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood.nul voice: (202) 454-4691 Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:00:12 -0700 Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:49:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:24:41 -0400 >Subject: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >Filer's Files #16 - 2005, >Skywatch Investigations >George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern >Vice President of Skywatch International >April 13, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com >Did a Congressman Find Data Confirming Roswell Crash? >Brian Vike, Director, HBCC UFO Research on March 23, 2005 has >released a letter that was written to a Mr. Robert F. Brown, a >fellow who explained to me that he was persistent in his pursuit >of information through different government agencies on a >sighting event, which he witnessed in late 1949 or early 1950 >when he was 11 or 12 years old. Robert wrote letters to his >Congressman, Mr. William D. Delahunt of Massachusetts in hopes >that he would have the means to help retrieve alleged documents >that may be floating around in an archive about Robert's >sighting. In the years Mr. Brown has been tracking down the >information he is looking for, he has been communicating with >Congressman Delahunt's office, the FBI and Department of >Justice. Brian says, "I would like to point out in the letter >posted with this report has one sentence which I found to be of >greatest interest:" >"Thank you for your letter about UFOs and the July 1947 incident >that happened in Roswell, New Mexico. After looking into this >matter, I have found that the debris from that is still being >analyzed and is not open to the public at this time." >I like so many others were under the impression that there was >officially no UFO crash at Roswell in 1947, according to the >government/military. The doors were closed on this sometime ago >and some varying ideas were thrown out to us all on what the >military said took place. So, when I read the letter from the >office of Congressman, Mr. William D. Delahunt, I see it as >reading: "Someone has looked into the alleged Roswell event and >possibly found information on the actual crashed craft. Very >strange, if you ask me. The letter signed by a staff member can >be viewed at: >http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=25 >89 Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Of course the reason they are still analyzing the Roswell debris is because it was from a Project Mogul top secret balloon, which was made of such top, top, top secret rubber, tinfoil, balsa wood, Scotch tape, etc., that they still can't figure it out. But back on planet Earth, Congressman Delahunt's office has just dropped an absolutely _huge_ hint that there is much more to the Roswell crash than a Mogul balloon. Skeptical Listers should take note. David Rudiak Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 PRG Media Notice re: Upcoming NPC Press Conference From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:51:17 -0400 Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:49:41 -0500 Subject: PRG Media Notice re: Upcoming NPC Press Conference PRG Paradigm Research Group Media Notice re: Upcoming NPC Press Conference Event: Exopolitics 2005 Press Conference Date: April 25, 2005 Place: National Press Club, Peter Lisagor Room 529 14th Street, NW, Washington, DC 20045 Time: 10 am Subjects: X-Conference 2005, pending events and developments in exopolitics, more Panel: Stephen Bassett; Grant Cameron; Paola Harris; Michael Salla, PhD; Alfred L. Webre, JD; more TBA Washington, DC - Paradigm Research Group will hold a press conference in the wake of the 2nd Annual Exopolitics Expo - X- Conference 2005 - in the Peter Lisagor Room at the National Press Club at 10 am on Monday, April 25. It is open to the public. X-Conference speakers will present breaking news from the X- Conference, pending developments in their research, new books and more. Stephen Bassett, executive director of PRG, will raise serious concerns regarding exopolitical issues as they relate to high ranking government officials, past and present. X-Conference 2005, which is scheduled for April 22-24 at the Hilton Gaithersburg, is a unique event which focuses on the political, governmental and social implications of extraterrestrial-related phenomena and 50+ years of societal denial. It is produced by PRG as part of the ongoing activist movement seeking to end a government imposed truth embargo. Thirty speakers and panelists will present. Registration information can be found at the conference website via the web portal at: www.x-conference.com. As of today 64 press passes have been issued and more are available. Seven documentary teams, including two from the United Kingdom and two from History Channel productions, will be filming. Contact: Stephen Bassett 202-215-8344 ________________________________________________________ Paradigm Research Group E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul URL: www.paradigmclock.com Cell: 202-215-8344 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 _________________________________________________________ 2nd Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg - April 22-24, 2005 www.x-conference.com Tapes/DVDs available at: www.lostartsmedia.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:44:47 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:51:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission <snip> >>5) Regarding the "crypto" room, I would like to know if Oberg >>heard of such a room. >Don't know. Had you Jim? <snip> >>It was also implied during the program that it was "mysterious" >>why we did not go back to the Moon or why we stopped. It is in >>no way mysterious. Going to the Moon was/is expensive. You need >>a well defined business case. This does not exist. Thus it ends >>up being performed at the whim of politicians for political >>reasons. Once we had got there and once interest had waned (as >>Ledger states in the program) there was _no_ reason to continue. >I've no doubt of the political interference and the timidity of >the average politician when faced with the albatross of inner >city welfare problems and the "war' on poverty, etc. Also the >Vietnam war was going on through the whole of the Apollo program >that was eating up much of the American budget-never mind the >ongoing "Cold War" The Apollo missions and the manned space >program to the Moon ended two years before that war. War is >apparently more important than space exploration. >Someone made damn sure though that they didn't go back to the >Moon in the near future. Like the Avro Arrow, the Saturn 5 >rocket was scrapped and construction was discontinued. >If I learn more, I'll pass it along. Hi Everyone! Below is a reply Jim Oberg sent this afternoon to me and James Smith. Jim asked that I forward his comments to the UFO UpDates list (his reply was edited and re-formatted for posting to this list). There are many publications and other more credible sources that provide verifiable facts which do suggest that the Moon was once (and may still be?) occupied. These include two carefully researched and well written popular books by Don Wilson, "Our Mysterious Spaceship Moon' and 'Secrets Of Our Spaceship Moon' which present a very convincing case that that crescent shaped object you will see in the sky tonight is actually a massive UFO - a planetoid older than Earth that was converted by ETs as their temporary home base until now when they inserted it in a close circular orbit around our own world. As for these latest witnesses who claim to have seen UFOs on the Moon during an Apollo 15 EVA or to have seen top secret NASA photos of artificial structures on the Moon, they have clearly been shown not to be credible and are very likely disinformation agents who will bring further ridicule on past and new evidence of UFOs and ET activity on the Moon. We should be more critical on who and what we believe since our reputation is at stake and will further hinder our search for the truth. Nick Balaskas ---------- Ledger appears unaware that the Saturn-V production run of 15 flight vehicles was determined in the mid-1960's, long before the first landing, and that production of new vehicles had shut down about 1968. Ledger [said] "I did offer that Fendell was remotely operating the video camera from Houston and that only a speed pan could have picked up the "object" both forward and aft of the Rover." It's even worse than Ledger thinks. Because of the time lag between images in the MOCR and when pan commands could reach the rover, it would have been physically IMPOSSIBLE for a remote controller on Earth to 'follow' the motions of any moving object on the moon, with any significant angular rate. Even the LM liftoffs were not 'followed', they were visible because their pre-determined angular motion was used to enter camera tilt commands before any sign of motion on the screen ever appeared. Ledger [said] "Whether the MOCR was ever evacuated at any time during an EVA is moot." Ledger conveniently wants everyone to forget when somebody he wants to believe makes a statement that is contrary to every other on-site witness as well as established policy. Ledger [said] "And of course Houston would have cut the live audio and video feeds to the networks." Of course this tired old saw ('the lack of live broadcasts of UFO sightings is proof there WERE live broadcasts but NASA interrupted them') will never die in the hearts of the eager believers, despite what every Apollo astronaut has said, what every retired NASA flight controller has said (including the PAOs who would have hit the switch - but make clear, never ever had to), what every verifiable radio amateur who monitored Apollo transmissions has said (not counting, of course, the mythical ones whose names just "can't" be revealed), what every lunar scientist has said and written, with overwhelming unanimity. So many counterexamples of crew conversations of initially anomalous sights exist, they also fill UFO books - at the same time that enthusiasts claim that such conversations would have been cut off. Talk about simultaneously believing contradictory notions. Ledger [said] "Additionally, there is a new thread on UpDates concerning the experiences of a couple of lay engineers and their stumbling across the library at the observatory and hi-rez photos of the Lunar surface showing artifacts. Hatten knew nothing of these but did confirm the location and stated that while he was there the Library was at the main complex and that the observatory was known to them as "The Haunted House" due to it's remote location. He lived about 3/4s of a mile away from it." If Ledger is referring to the Lunar and Planetary Institute's building on NASA Road 1 overlooking Clear Lake, directly adjacent to the Manned Spacecraft Center (as it was known in Apollo days), there's no 'observatory' there - more indications of out-of-control tall-tale-tellings. The only domed telescope I can recall from Apollo days - and I knew the astronomers who had used it to watch moon-bound spacecraft - was on the roof of Bldg 16, right on the main site. JimO Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:01:31 +0000 Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:51:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >From: A.J. Gevaerd <Brazilian UFO Magazine <ufo2005.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:06:28 -0300 >Subject: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >Ashtar Sheran -- Is there such an alien or is he only a fantasy >of creative minds? >A comprehensive sociologic, historic and scientific study of its >origin and interaction with mankind, as reported by people over >the last decades. >By Rogerio Chola [rogerio.chola.nul] and Laura Elias >[laura.elias.nul] >Brazilian UFO Magazine - Special Edition 33, April 2005 He is a fantasy of not terribly creative minds; in fact of rather feeble minds. - Dick Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:36:06 EDT Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:52:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> >To: <ufopdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:12:06 +0100 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>>Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission <snip> >But I thought you'd like to hear the fireman's reaction to the >current discussion which I will paste below. <snip> >He seems confused over the two camera questions <snip> >Simply put, I do care about accuracy in reporting, >take Dan Rather for instance and his supposed unimpeachable >information concerning Pres. Bush whatever. Has nothing to do >with what I saw and wtnessed, but the idea is the same. Huh??? Where did this Dan Rather / Bush National Guard documents stuff come from??? It was alleged that someone had fabricated a false document imitating an IBM Selectric type face and fed the document to CBS and Dan Rather. Interestingly, the "fireman" at the end reveals that he too had typed up his "statement" on his purported NASA coverup experience, on an IBM Selectric! Why mention that the alleged NASA story was typed up on an IBM Selectric (who cares? why is it relevant?) in the same message mentioning the seemingly irrelevant alleged Bush document hoax that involved or simulated an IBM Selectric? Sounds like the "fireman" has a lot about hoaxing and IBM Selectrics on his mind. Here is the "fireman" 's IBM Selectric comment brought up from the end of his message: >And because one man made a point of >pointing out that we could lose our jobs if we revealed anything >we had seen, under "National Security" restrictions, I most >likely wouldn't have remembered the incident. THEY were the >reason I sat down at the Fire Department's old IBM Selectric >with Courier Ball, and typed out the report; times, date, place >and with individuals involved." <snip> >I went into the Auditorium at JSC with my wife in 1994, saw a >Lunar Rover in the display, right next to the Lunar Excursion >Module, commonly called the LEM, and the damned thing had two >cameras on it. One on the front and one on the back. I may have >been wrong on the actual locations, but the damned thing had two >cameras. >I don't owe anyone an apology for what I originally wrote! Yeah you do. You owe everyone an apology for your fable. NASA renamed the "Lunar Excursion Module" (LEM) to the simple LM (Lunar Module) in 1967 -- before there ever was even a first Apollo lunar landing. Therefore you could not have seen a "LEM" "commonly called" that, at NASA Johnson Space Center in 1994 "right next" to the Lunar Rover, 27 years after NASA had renamed LEM's to LM's AND claim it was "commonly called the LEM." Does NASA supposedly not know its own Apollo mission terminology after 27 years?? Does NASA need a lecture from a "fireman" on the name of the Lunar Module and how NASA has apparently not called it by the name it is "commonly called" and has used the wrong name for 27 years?? To say nothing of getting instruction from the "fireman" on correct "National Security" procedures! I can't even imagine where in 1994 (or 2005) you could have dredged up the "LEM" name from the mid-60's in the first place for a supposed honest "confusion" if it was that. How do you "honestly confuse" something that has not existed or been used since a planning stage in the mid-60's with the name "LM" that was actually used? Maybe you planned this story as a hoax hoping to see who was foolish enough to believe it and who would catch these glaring historical errors. Maybe you were going to reveal your hoax like an April Fool's prank and tell us afterwards "Okay guys didn't you get my hint when I brought up Dan Rather and IBM Selectrics in my story??" I wholeheartedly agree with Dick Hall's comment on this claim: >I say put up or shut up. >There is no reason whatsover to take him seriously as it now >stands. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: The NASA Moon Photos From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:39:46 -0300 Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:53:21 -0500 Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:53:56 EDT >Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:15:34 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:16:19 EDT >>>Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos <snip> >There was never anything like - and I'm making this up as a >hypothetical: >"We see a bogey over the ridge! Switch to Channel B [gap in >transcript]." >There was, however, a private channel of communications not >transcribed into the public transcripts or broadcast to the >public, for sensitive medical and other discussions. >I recall that I asked to see the technical air-to-ground >transcripts with the exact times to the second, and a few were >provided for Apollo but not all, and these too apparently did >not include the private channel. I asked for the private channel >transcripts but was told these were not available and unlikely >ever to be released. I see no reason why there would have been more than one channel. There might have been ten, what difference would that make? It was a safety measure where the Apollo missions were concerned. As for Alpha and Bravo channels, of course there were. There's nothing mysterious about that that, it's simple phonetics to avoid confusion in transmission and if you want to confuse the lay person you say, "Roger, Houston we are going bravo." Everyone in the mission loop would know what that means. As for the descreet channel, you had your answer. ".. but was told these were not available and unlikely ever to be released." Wonder why? Aviation Air Comm channels right now number 760, some of them are nav channels. Incidentally, the airlines run radio comm on private channels to and from their aircraft that no one else is privy to. Don Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:07:21 -1000 Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:54:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:55:40 EDT >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:06:56 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:08:23 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >>>>Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >>><snip> Aloha Kevin, one of the points I've been making in this thread is that it's important to have the correct premises upon which to base UFO research. I've claimed that we need to distinguish between a 'soft' and 'hard' cover up of the UFO phenomenon. Veteran UFO researchers generally agree that a 'soft' cover up exists in that public officials are instructed not to disclosue UFO information, cases withdrawn from public access, 'hard evidence' withdrawn from sites of alleged UFO crashes, etc. It's however the 'hard' cover up which is more difficult for veteran researchers to acknowledge in the sense of evidence tampering, witness intimidation, removal of public records, discrediting whistleblowers/witnesses, etc. However, there is clear testimonial evidence that such a 'hard' cover up exists as with a number of whistleblowers who have come forward, and the intimidation, threats, etc., meted out to whistleblowers and/or witnesses. This extends to whistleblowers/witnesses allegedly being eliminated as contended by Dan Morris, Daniel Salter, Wendelle Stevens and covered in an article by Cope Schellhorn, http://www.metatech.org/ufo_research_magazine_evidence.html . This means that one takes a considerable risk in making hard evidence the fulcrum upon which to base UFO research. That risk is similar to jumping off a cliff in the faith that the truth will come forth due to the integrity of the researchers and the scientific methods they bring to bear on the available hard evidence. Such an approach is clearly faith based and has the appearance of science since it faithfully adheres to the need to analyse hard evidence. However, that approach flies in the face of the evidence of a 'hard cover up' underway which is well orchestrated, funded and done by professionals in various national security agencies. If I'm correct, and there's considerable testimonial evidence (Disclosure Project) and documentary evidence (Majestic Documents) to support my contention, then making hard evidence the fulcrum to analyse whistleblower testimonies is necessarily flawed. This brings me to your allegations concerning the three whistleblowers whose military credentials in my view lend plausibility to their claims: Phillip Corso, Robert Dean and Clifford Stone. You raise some objections to their plausiblity due to 'hard evidence' that they may have fabricated part of their stories or that parts of their testimonies don't check out. I think your approach raises two red flags. First, your style is similar to a court room attorney who wants to discredit witnesses by focusing on minor inconsistencies in their testimonies and backgrounds. The attorney's hope is that by discrediting them in this way, you can get the judge/jury to dismiss their testimony. I don't see you at all interested in the claims Corso, Dean and Stone are making, you just want to focus on inconsistencies that you claim to be critical to their credibility, but appear to me to be red herrings. Second, you make hard evidence the 'litmus test' for whistleblower credibilty and ignore evidence that a hard cover up is underway that could easily mask some aspects of a whistleblowers background or testimony. So keeping these red flags in mind, I'll respond as best I can to your comments. <snip> >While each "phony whistleblower" might have an interesting tale >to tell, that doesn't mean the tale is true. And while there >seems to be little or no hard evidence to support them, there is >some hard evidence to suggest they are not telling the truth. >Philip Corso claimed to be a colonel, explained that he had been >promoted to colonel upon retirement, yet his military records >does not reflect such a promotion. Corso begins his book, The Day After Roswell, by clearly stating that he was a Lt-Colonel who headed up the Foreign Technology Desk for a two year period in the 1960s. I don't have access to his military records so I can't confirm or deny what happened upon his retirement and the details of his promotion. What happened during his tenure at the Foreign Technology desk is certainly the crux of his credibility as a whistleblower. Why would an individual with such a sterling military service record as Corso's concoct such a tale in his autobiography which establishes his legacy? I think it reasonable to conclude that he was not telling a tall tale but giving a factual account of his work at the Pentagon while at the Foreign Technology desk. While no hard evidence was given to support Corso's claims, he put his reputation and legacy on the line in coming forward. His credibility as a witness comes from his service record and very senior positions he held. I think your point about Corso's service record and promotion is a red herring. >He claimed to have been the >commander at the White Sands Missile Range yet all the >commanders except for the very first, and one who took over >temporarily have been generals. The White Sands website provides >a list of the commanders and Corso is not on the list. He >claimed, at one point, to have been a member of MJ-12 and was >not (assuming that MJ-12 is a real committee) and he induced >Senator Strom Thurman to write an introduction for his book >claiming it was about his brushes with greatness, when it was >about the Roswell UFO crash. As far as I'm aware, Corso never claimed to be a member of MJ- 12, he just referred to its existence and composition. Corso discussed the circumstances surrounding his use of Strom Thurman foreword in an interview with Michael Lindeman - see: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/roswell018.html Corso claims he told Thurman of the UFOs he discussed in his book and that Thurman nevertheless agreed to write the foreword for the Day After Roswell and understood it was about UFOs. It's likely that during his employment service for the former Senator he discretely divulged some of the projects he worked on despite his alleged vow to Lt Gen Trudeau to not go public. Thurman may have written the foreward as a favor to a former close advisor but once his staffers discovered what was in Corso's book, they quickly rescinded permission for the foreword to be used. >Some pictures in his books of UFOs >are well known fakes and if Corso was who he claimed to be, he >should have known this. Interviewed on the radio with Frank >Kaufmann, when there was a conflict, he bowed to Kaufmann who >has since been proven to be a fraud. If Corso was who he claimed >to be, he should have known about Kaufmann. His tale of seeing >an alien body at Ft. Riley, KS, as the convoy made it's way from >Roswell to Wright Field, is phony, for a number of reasons, not >the least of which is the way he was shown the alien body at the >suggestion of his friend, when he should have turned his friend >in for violation of security (Yes, I know you"ll say that it was >his friend and he didn't want him to get into trouble, but just >what in the hell was the friend doing going through classified As for the veracity of the photos in Corso's books, I don't know where you got your information that they are "well known fakes". There may be considerible controversy about them, but that doesn't make them fakes. I don't know about Kaufman and the incident you are referring to. As for the alleged convoy through Ft Riley, the 'friend' was in fact the sergeant on guard duty and had peered into the contents of the boxes he was guarding. The Sergeant had some time invited Corso to join a bowling team so that was the basis of their relationship. Corso was a Major at the time and the Sergeant an NCO, so it's a bit of a stretch to say he was Corso's friend. >Cliff Stone managed to rise in rank to E-7, not all that >impressive for a military career that lasted more than twenty >years. In an article published in UFO magazine (Vol 13, No 6, >1998, and no, I"m not going to type in the article for two >reasons=E2?=A6 one, it's too long and two, that would be a violation >of copyright) Stone claims that he had "never been trained as a >clerk typist," yet his service record shows that about his only >training in the Army (other than basic training) was as a clerk >typist. He attended school at the USATC for eight weeks and was >awarded the military occupation speciality (MOS) of "Clktypist >71B in 1968. He took an advanced NCO school for five weeks in >1982 and a one week school labeled as "headstart" in 1989. So, >in other words, about the only training he did have was as a >typist. His assignments, throughout his military career have one >thing in common. They are all labeled as clerk or admin. None of >the strange assignments he claimed and no holes in his record >for such assignments. Oh, yes, his records were altered. I >forgot. If Stone was recruited to work as a specialist for the retrieval of crashed disks as he claims, that wouldn't appear on his army record since it would have been a compartmentalised black project. As for altering records for those working in such projects, I would argue that is standard security procedure for compartmentalised black projects. The Project Manager for each project would be responsible for security and could easily make it mandatory for a servicemen's record not to include anything that would hint of the kind of specialized training Stone claims to have received. It would make sense to have Stone's service record include him training as a typist, when he in fact was being trained for the retreival of ETVs. >He claims, in this article that this did not stop him "from >various times crawling out through our, what we called a "kill >zone" which was 300 meters that was cleared in our perimeter all >the way around the base camp. When crawling out of that kill >zone, at nights and every now and then, I"d run into an enemy >patrol or something of this sort and I would actually find >myself shooting at the enemy and the enemy shooting at me." > >What utter crap=E2?=A6 Where were the perimeter guards while he was >crawling through the wire? Don Ecker, in that same issue of the >magazine wrote, "This is where I think Stone's story breaks >down: The idea that a single, unaccompanied American soldier >would go crawling out through the wire, by himself, to play tag >with the NVA or VC , and not have any sanctions from above >strikes me as patently ridiculous." There may be some inconsistency in Stone's story about his Vietnam experience, but you seize upon that as hard evidence that he is fabricating his war experiences and someone not to be trustred. This appears to me to be another red herring you are raising. >The first time I met Stone in his home in Roswell, he tried to >convince us of his importance by going out to his car to >retrieve some "Top Secret" documents. He carried them through >the living room so that we could see the cover sheets on them. >If he had left top secret material in his car, then he was going >to jail. He also pointed to the sticker on his car noting that >it was blue, suggesting to us that he was actually an officer. >What he didn't know is that I knew that system had been changed >so that all the stickers were blue and it was the small strip >under it that denoted the rank. Stone's was the proper color for >an NCO. I could go on listing Stone's claim to have been at the >Kecksburg UFO crash recovery to his viewing (through a hole in >the curtains) of the largely discredited alien autopsy film but >what is the point? Again, I don't see any major issue here. Just some inconsistencies you identify that you blow up as hard evidence that he is fabricating his testimony and not to be trusted. >Let's talk about Bob Dean, a very likable man who rose to the >highest enlisted grade of command sergeant-major, not an easy >thing to do. Very few people reach that rank. However, his story >of how he saw The Assessment (at least in one version) smacks of >hoax. He said that he was the NCOIC at the command post one >night and was having trouble staying awake. The OIC pulled The >Assessment out of the Top Secret vault and gave it to Dean with >the instruction to read it. That would keep him awake. Top >secret documents are just not routinely handed to people to keep >them awake. At best there may be a minor discrepancy in what Dean was relating here about what when and how he was told about, The Assessment. Dean was part of the intelligence briefing team for General Lyman 'Linditser' (?) who was the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe (SACEUR). Dean claimed to have a Cosmic Top Secret clearance as part of his job so anything he saw was very highly classified. I find it ridiculous to assert that the Assessment would have been a hoax that he and others on the briefing team had been instructed to read in different shifts in order to stay awake. Dean describes the circumstances around reading the Assesment in an interview at: http://www.planetarymysteries.com/hieronimus/bobdean.html. I think your idea that the Assessment was a hoax designed to keep Dean and others awake is another red herring. >In another version, Dean suggested that when he arrived at SHAPE >for a tour there, he learned the study was already underway and >that having the required clearance, he often studied the pages >while passing time in the quiet evenings. Except that having the >required clearance didn't automatically give him a Need to Know, >and without that, he wouldn't have had access to the document. >His position at SHAPE certainly didn't require that he be >brought in on something like The Assessment. If Dean was an intelligence analyst on the briefing team to the SACEUR staff, then he would have had a 'need to know', and thus access to the document. >But, like so much of the whistleblowers" testimony, Dean's >breaks down because there is no corroboration for it, and in >fact, there are some very disturbing aspects are it. Dean told >researcher Tim Good that Fred Hoyle had worked as a consultant >to The Assessment. When asked about this, Hoyle wrote that there >wasn't an element of truth to the story. If Hoyle was brought in as a consultant for a highly classified "Cosmic" document, I would hardly expect him to divulge this to UFO researchers such as Good. Hoyle would be breaking whatever security oath he had taken, and risking whatever privileges he had while working as a consultant if he told Good about the existence of the Assessment. >Compare this to the response of Robert Sarbacher, who, when >asked about his touch with the crashed saucers story, told all >who wrote or called that he did have some limited knowledge of >it and that he had been quoted correctly in the past. >There are other problems. Dean claimed that the French had >duplicated The Assessment before giving it back to NATO and then >had given it to the Research group G.E.P.A.N., except that the >French left NATO in 1967 and G.E.P.A.N didn't exist at that >time. The conclusion of Good's investigation was that The >Assessment, as described by Dean, did not exist. Please note >here that Tim Good is a UFO researcher and would not be party to >the cover up. He would be at the front shouting about it, if it >existed in this case. France left the integrated command structure of NATO in 1967, but has never left NATO and remains a member. I would have to see what Good said before I comment on it. >So, here we are, with three of the whistleblowers whose stories >do not check out, with documentation that suggests they are not >who they claim to be, and who can produce no hard evidence that >they were where they claimed or saw what they claimed and about >whom the evidence suggests they have been less than honest. Just >why should we take anything that they say seriously? I think all you have demonstrated is that you have similar competence to a courtroom attorney intent on dismissing the credibility of testimonies that you don't want the judge/jury to consider in a case where one's substantive arguments are quite weak. You bring up a number of red herrings that distract attention from the substance of the claims that Dean, Stone and Corso raise. One can quibble all day over the credibility of these and other whistleblowers based on minor inconsistencies or anomalies in their service records as you have done. However, if one accepts that a 'hard cover up' is underway, then logic dictates that the absence of hard evidence does not negate considering the actual content of these and other whistleblower testimonies. If we don't take whistleblowers seriously, then a whole category of evidence will be effectively ignored making the task of finding out what is really happening in the classified world of alleged ETVs/EBEs that much harder, and probably delay disclosure for some time yet. I don't share the faith of the nuts and bolts specialists that doggedly continuing with whatever hard evidence they can find will eventually yield the Rosetta Stone for understanding the UFO phenomenon. That I believe is what distinguishes political realism from religious science. Michael Salla www.exopolitics.org Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: Imaginary Traumas From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:23:00 EDT Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:00:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:45 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:18:22 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:03:31 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:34:10 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:16:54 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >I am interested in the double standard that operates in UFO >research. When Budd Hopkins says that he knows that abductees >suffer from no sort of mental defect or psychological problem, >no one says "what are your statistics?". Let's not get sidetracked here. I do not support Budd Hopkins or reject him. You have now omitted Stan Friedman's original statistical argument on this thread that there are "literally hundreds of cases" of UFO abductions "where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking etc." or "doing other non horizontal activities." You presented the counterargument that there are a few cases that might support your idea of Sleep Paralysis UFO Dream- like Abductions. I questioned the statistical basis of your counterargument. Is there any reason to challenge Stan's statistical claim? If not, how is this a "double standard"? You apparently do not dispute the existence of these "hundreds" of waking, non-horizontal, daily-activity-interrupting UFO abduction cases as cited by Stan. If you did then we could discuss the basis for questioning Stan, and that would be fair, and not a "double standard." But you evidently agree with Stan on the existence of "literally hundreds" of very difficult to explain UFO abductions that don't readily fall into any sleep phenomena category and don't involve witnesses who were asleep or in sleep fatigue type situations (like the two women you cited who were tired from a drive and pulled off to the side of the road to "sleep" and only one apparently had a dream of a UFO abduction). >No one cares that the >sample he used was of nine people he selected. When I challenged you all you could bring up were a handful of dubiously even UFO-related or doubtfully abduction-related incidents, to support your Sleep Paralysis UFO Dream-like Abduction idea, totaling less than even 9. That amounted to less than 1% of the 1,000+ abductions supposedly on record. Now you present larger statistics (see below) but did not do so earlier after round after round of emails with me asking if that's all there is just less than 1%. You cowrote a book on UFO abductions and i would have thought you'd have stats right at your fingertips, but instead you chided me for not doing your homework in your field. <snip> >When David Jacobs suggests what is the typical abduction, based >on his research and published it in his book, I am told to >produce statistics to back up what Jacobs wrote. You brought up Jacobs not me! We don't have Jacobs here posting arguments. You presented evidence of less than 1% of all abduction cases to support your Sleep Paralysis idea. Your quote of Jacobs was clever but non-quantitative. What are the numbers to back up your use of Jacobs' scenario? That was my point, a scientific point, not a debate club point. Science does not acknowledge named authorities unless they prove their authority by doing good valid work directly on the point in issue. And in science no one is immune from scientific criticism no matter how big the name. You should know that. Playing the name-drop game doesn't cut it with me. <snip> >And if I write here that we used 316 abductees in our sample, >the next challenge will be, how did you determine they were >abductees. As I mentioned in another post, there is no >universally accepted definition of an abductee, but that >didn't matter here. We used those identified by other >researchers to create our sample. Ahh now we finally start getting some real numbers to compete with Stan's undisputed "literally hundreds" of very unexplainable UFO abductions. After how many email postings whining, bitching, griping and complaining did it take to drag out this number that seemingly you took out from your own 1999 book on UFO abductions to support your own argument?! So now you have 316 cases against Stan's "literally hundreds." But are they the same cases or same type of cases, or are they different in fundamental ways? It's again a scientific question. Notice how you drop out the term "UFO" when you mention "abductees." Right there is a tipoff that you have lumped in cases where they may be no UFO sighted at all, or not "sighted" in a normal "non horizontal" activity or waking state as in the "literally hundreds" of actual UFO abductions cited by Stan, which you do not dispute do exist. >Of those, nearly 50% reported that their initial experiences >mimicked sleep paralysis. That is, about half reported an >experience that was vague, that was fragmented, and that >involved both paralysis and the belief that something was in the >room with them. Were they all _asleep_? What percentage were asleep, what percentage were awake, and what percentage was uncertain, what percentage unreported? Did they all report "paralysis" while in "sleep" or why would you say it "mimicked" the "sleep paralysis" phenomenon? Is there any evidence of dreaming and how would you know one way or another? >Under hypnosis, these fragmented memories >developed into complete abductions with a craft, alien creatures >and all the other elements of alien abduction. This raises many questions. "All the other elements of alien abduction" but does that mean they reported a beginning (the witness is kidnapped and taken aboard a UFO), a middle (witness is aboard a UFO and examined or whatever), and an end (witness is returned), in each and every case? Dreams would usually not have a neatly unfolding complete story, only fragments. Next you assert that it is hypnosis that has expanded "fragmentary" (dream-like?) stories into fuller accounts. Is that really so? Again, a scientific question, how many, what percentage, how classified and distinguished? This would suggest that hypnotic regression has been falsifying UFO dreams into full-blown UFO abductions. But normal people do have dreams, and UFO abduction themes are popular subjects of blockbuster movies (CEIII and 50's sci fi) and pulp science fiction going back to the 30's or earlier. Why would people _not_ have UFO abduction dreams? Surely many people do, along with dreams of other psychologically disturbing and threatening motifs such as terrorists, muggers, people chasing them, etc. What is the scientific control study to differentiate UFO dreams (and sleep paralysis always associated with dream states) from UFO abductions? Surely it is relatively easy on a preliminary Hynek Screening to separate out fragmentary dream-like UFO "abductions" from what we can call the "real UFO abductions" like the "literally hundreds" cited by Stan. <snip> >In Bullard's study, which contained fragmentary information >and was more of a statistical analysis than anything else, 16% >of those reporting abduction had an initial experience that >mimicked sleep paralysis. That figure is flawed because in many >of the cases in the survey, there wasn't enough information to >determine what had precipitated the belief the witness had been >abducted. So _now_ you admit that there was not enough info in Bullard's study to determine whether there was even a UFO or a UFO abduction involved in the cases, i.e., to determine "what had precipitated the belief the witness had been abducted." This after arguing with me over whether I should consult Bullard's study (which I do not have and have no intention of obtaining any time soon) to help _you_ justify _your_ own points and arguments for you by determining whether UFO's were actually involved in the cases _you_ cited from Bullard! >Those numbers seem to be significant and not the 1% of a 1000 >cases you have cited, through you provided nothing to suggest >where those figures came from. They came from your tiny sample of cases cited from Bullard, before this posting where you _now_ tell me there is 16% supposedly, yet you also now admit (see previous) that Bullard does not present enough info as to "what had precipitated the belief the witness had been abducted" in the first place!! Meaning it was doubtful whether there was a UFO involved (it's a dream or dream-like thing right?). Your whole case seems to be built upon taking the "UFO" out of "UFO abductions" then having everyone believe we're still talking about "UFO abductions". This is called the "fallacy of equivocation" whereby you subtly switch the subject in mid-argument. Just because others are incautious in how they define "UFO abduction" or what they include under that rubric doesn't mean we are forever after required to follow their mistaken lead. >Stan's comment, which I interpreted to mean that he rejected >sleep disorders as a viable explanation for abduction because >there are those who were non horizontal when they were abducted, >really meant nothing. Because there are those who say they were >awake when abducted does not negate those who had been asleep >and who might have experienced sleep paralysis. "Meant nothing"?? What you are really suggesting is like saying many UFO cases can be explained by mirages and subsun reflections. Then you cast your net widely for all such cases even if they amount to less than 1% of the sample. Then you say let's focus on the mirage-like cases, because they do exist and the Unexplained UFO cases do not "negate" the existence of mirage cases! You are perfectly free to study and discuss what are basically the abductionology equivalent of IFO cases, poorly documented or investigated, confusing, fragmentary, and/or dream-like cases. It just won't answer the nagging questions in the back of my mind about the best Unexplained UFO Abductions like Stan cites, in the "literally hundreds" "where the people aren't in bed, but are driving, walking etc." or "doing other non horizontal activities." >I suggested that cataplexy. R. J. Campbell wrote, for his >dictionary of psychiatric terms, "A benign neurologic >phenomenon, more probably due to some temporary dysfunction of >the reticular activating system consisting of brief episodes of >inability to move and/or speak when awakening or less commonly, >when falling asleep. There is no accompanying disturbance of >consciousness, and the subject has complete recall for the >episode=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=A6 The terms by which the phenomenon has been= known are >nocturnal hemiplegia, nocturnal paralysis, sleep numbness, >delayed psychomotor awakening, cataplexy of awakening and post >dormital chalastic fits." Isn't "nocturnal paralysis" an exact synonym for "sleep paralysis"? So therefore Campbell is saying cataplexy IS sleep paralysis (which he denies later, see your quote later on). That is Campbell's dictionary definition of "cataplexy"? But he makes no mention of narcolepsy here, and suggests it is a "temporary dysfunction" that is experienced by normal people. He makes no mention here of emotional disturbance or excitement triggering the attack (as happens with narcolpesy). It sounds like something that consists totally of just occasional episodes that occur to normal people, and nothing more (no mention of narcolepsy or the things that trigger narcolepsy) at least here in this statement of Campbell's. >Campbell defined cataplexy as "temporary paralysis or >immobilization loss of antigravity muscle tone without loss of >consciousness, often precipitated by emotional excitement. >Cataplexy is usually associated with narcolepsy." Now Campbell "usually" associates cataplexy with narcolepsy. But "usually" means "not always." So cataplexy now sounds abnormal here, but did not in the previous statement quoted, where there was no mention of the classic signs of emotional triggers for narcoleptic attacks. >Campbell noted that "Cataplexy differs from sleep paralysis in >that it occurs during daytime activities, often following the >eruption of expressions of strong emotions such as laughter." Well, earlier, Campbell defined cataplexy as "nocturnal paralysis." So it does not "differ." Now you can jump in here and say how dare I challenge this medical or psychiatric giant and how dare I take apart the confusion and contradiction in a published dictionary, but hey the confusion is there. I'm just the messenger. Yes let's urge more research but you have not shown me any statistical basis yet for seeing these dream-like sleep-like (or actual sleeping) "abductions" (with no "UFO"??) as explaining the wide-awake "UFO abductions" that are the most difficult to explain. If the latter do exist by the "literally hundreds" as Stan Friedman states and as you apparently admit, then I cannot see how studies of dream-like sleeping cases, paralysis or not, will explain them. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 15 Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:28:22 EDT Archived: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:08:19 -0500 Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula >From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:23:23 -0700 >Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula >>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:26:48 EST >>Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula >>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:29:48 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula >>>>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:52:01 EST >>>>Subject: Re: The Aztec Case - Ufology's Dracula ><snip> >>Yes, Scully's book sold well out of the gate (to call it a >>bestseller is a bit of a stretch), but it's what happened >>afterwards that counts. His book was thoroughly repudiated by >>both critics and scientists, and then largely ignored by anyone >>having anything to do with ufology. As for J. P. Cahn, I'd be >>fascinated to hear where you get the allegation that his motives >>were "dubious" from. Scully? In fact, Cahn was a respected >>reporter, who had done meticulous research into the Aztec case, >>something Scully neglected to do, and it caught up with him. >Hmmm... well it seems we agree that Scully's book was >"successful enough" for the parties you cite i.e., "critics and >the scientists" to be aware of it. Moreover, since the term >"UFO" didn't exist when Scully's book was published, ergo >referencing "Ufology" doesn't seem to apply. Frank, Your former statement proves nothing, and so is irrelevant. If someone leaves a big, stinking pile of garbage outside my front door, of course I'll notice it. Ditto Scully's book. If getting noticed is the standard that you want ufology to employ in judging the worth of something, ufology is in big trouble. And when I say "was then largely ignored" by ufology, I'm referring to the period ever since, which should have been obvious, but I guess was not, at least to you. >In regards to Cahn, I don't know what his motives were; if in >fact they were genuine, or tainted in someway, but yes, Scully's >claims evoke doubt, suspicion, along with the research of >Steinman and Stevens. In answer to your question about "hearing >anyone" jump to their defense, aside from Koi's offering of >reference materials (thank you), I haven't heard anyone pro or >con, unless I missed something. (Here on the list that is). As for Scully's claims "invoking doubt" about Cahn, I guess all one has to do in your world is say, "hey, he's a shady guy" and doubts will arise, unless those people are named Gebauer and Newton. Of course, with them there's actual evidence that they were shady characters, as opposed to Scully's self-serving and totally unsupported insinuations about Cahn, or, worse, Steinman's de facto racial profiling ("the Armenian reporter?" C'mon). <snip> >>>If we were in court, your assessment of Riggs' "testimony" would >>>be quite accurate; however, as I have repeatedly said before >>>we're not. I understand that you have a legal background, and a >>>"lawyer's eye"; that certainly is beneficial in Ufology; >>>however, in this stage of the game instead of a "courtroom >>>analogy," think "archaeology," where we are "digging" for the >>>most "minute clues." >>Frank, your analogy is hopelessly flawed. >>This is not archaeology - this is witness testimony. The proper >>analogy is a court of law, or at least the same methodology as >>a historian would apply to evidence, which is, again, very similar >>to that used in a court of law. >>I admit, however, that it is convenient for you to keep claiming >>we are not in a court, because, if we were, these witnesses >>would simply have no merit. >It's to bad Paul, that you are "not practicing law," as you >certainly exhibit the traits; I didn't say, "this (Ufology) was >archaeology," I said "think" archaeology!" If archaeology i.e., >"the study of past human life and activities" doesn't apply to >"historic UFO cases," then what does? Umm... historical research, Frank. Y'know - the kind of thing that people study long and hard to learn, and that universities give those pesky (to Wendy Connors, anyway) degrees out for. As for "exhibiting the traits" of a lawyer, I take that as a compliment, even though I'm sure it wasn't intended as such. A few more people in ufology should try exhibiting those traits. >If Ufologists, or scientists for that matter, went by the guide >lines you seem to be suggesting, we'd be be falling off the edge >of the flat earth! Investigation, and in particular "scientific >investigation" begins with the observance of a phenomena; if we >simply discounted all anecdotal stories, and or eyewitness >testimony, where would we be? Good grief, Frank, nothing like broad, sweeping statements, is there? I never said all witness testimony, or all anecdotal accounts, should be discarded, only the ones that cannot be substantiated, or that are flawed, for whatever reason (like, say, the witness is an 80- something, 6 time stroke victim). The ufologists I respect know (Hall, Friedman, Clark, Sparks) or knew (Hynek, MacDonald) that to be true. Let's flip the question around - if we adopt your approach (which I call Salla-ism), which seems to be that we simply accept all witness accounts as accurate, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, where would we be? Exopolitics. Ick. >>>Riggs by the way has presented "military documents" >>>substantiating the "existence of" as well as "his association >>>with" the "un-named airman." He is very close to being found. >>Frank, as you say, I'm only responding to what I've seen. If >>Scott has new documents, let him bring them forward. If not, >>then why talk about Riggs at all? A good investigator would wait >>until all the evidence was in before publishing his conclusions. >>It's how you avoid making a fool of yourse >Thank you! This is what I've said from the start; rather then >rehash the S, N & G dogma take a look at Scott's work. In >regards to documents, he has just under "2300," and adds to that >often. S, N & G dogma? Sigh... it's becoming apparent to me that there isn't much more we have to say to each other on this matter, if all you can do is refer to critical evidence as "dogma." At least Scott tries to defend Scully, Newton & Gebauer (he fails, but at least he recognises that their role is crucial); you just label it "dogma" and move on. Now, about those documents - I saw the ones Scott had at the time I did the film. Indeed, I have a couple of large boxes of them here in the office. Virtually none of them had anything to do with Aztec. Here's a (very short) sampling of the "Aztec documents": 1. Historical Data of 4602d Air intelligence Service Squadron, Ent Air Force Base, Colorado Springs, Colorado... for the period 1 March thru 30 June 1952; 2. Squadron History 4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron, Air Defense Command, 1 July 1954 - 31 July 1954; 3. History of the 1006th Air Intelligence Service Squadron, Ent Air Force Base, Colorado, 1 January - 30 June 1958; 4. Historical Report, 34th Air Division (Defense), 31 December through 30 June 1953; 5. Historical Report, 34th Air Division (Defense), 1 July 1953 through 31 December 1953; 6. Squadron History, 4602d Air Intelligence Service Squadron, Air Defense Command, 1 July 1955 - 31 December 1955; and 7. Historical Record of the 767th Aircraft Control and Warning Sqaudron (ADC) for the period ending 30 June 1958. As I've said elsewhere, Scott could (and should) write a very interesting history of the 4602s AISS, but it has nothing to do with Aztec. The one document that I have that does related to Aztec, the ADC Special Historical Study of the Air Defense of Atomic Energy Installations, March 1946 to December 1952 (it relates to Aztec in reference to the "radar base" stories), shows, as I have demonstrated at my blog, that the Aztec proponents (and Scully) are / were just flat out wrong about their radar base contentions. See: www.redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2005/03/aztec-and-radar-bases.html >Unless you know something I don't (please share), Scott has >never "published his 'conclusions!'" He was asked to write an >article and complied. I do tend to agree though, it would be >prudent for an investigator to wait until the "work is done" >before voicing his theorem; that same forethought would be >judicious for the frondeur as well. Really? Then why is Scott's stuff all over your blog, not as "investigation underway - interim findings," or some such, but under the heading "Flying Saucer Recovery at Hart Canyon," as opposed to, say, "A reconsideration of the Aztec Incident." He is also presenting those conclusions at conferences like Aztec, Ozark, and MUFON. I don't begrudge him this in the least; he sincerely holds his beliefs, as wrong as I am convinced they are, and is entitled to put them forward in public. But to say he has never "published his conclusions" is simply wrong. Further, you positively endorse those conclusions yourself when you write, in advance of the first instalment you published: "Scott D. Ramsey has been researching the UFO Incident at Aztec since he first became aware of it back in 1988 while on a business trip to the four corners area. He has been aggressively tracking down witnesses and chasing any and all leads since 1990. He has travelled to 28 states in fourteen years, spent hundreds of hours in various archives, interviewed over 60 credible witnesses tied to the event; he has incurred over $200,000 dollars in expenditures during this ongoing investigation. The fruits of his labor will soon appear in his upcoming book about "The Aztec Incident." Note - not the "alleged UFO incident at Aztec," but the "UFO incident at Aztec." Not "60 alleged witnesses" but "60 credible witnesses." Those sound like conclusions to me. Of course, so does the first line of his article on your blog, which appears immediately after the passage quoted above: "On March 25th, 1948, at approximately 5:00 a.m. an event took place of such great magnitude it=E2=80=99s ramifications would forever change the lives of those involved" That sounds a lot like a conclusion to me, although maybe I'm being too lawyerly. <snip> >>>>3. Fred Reed - Now I will grant that Reed is the one of the >>>>three that claims to have been an actual witness. He maintained >>>>that he was ex-OSS, and then part of the "clean-up team" that >>>>was "sent to Aztec". His account, if it is to be believed (and >>>>one must ask whether Scott or anyone else has done a thorough >>>>background check on Reed) is interesting, but not because it >>>>backs up the Aztec crash theory. Reed states that, "In 1948 they >>>>were ordered to collect any foreign items they found (presumably >>>>parts of a spaceship, if you buy the crash story), [and] bury >>>>them eighteen inches deep." Does this make any sense? Would they >>>>have not carted it all away, (a) so that no-one would ever find >>>>it, and (b) so they could study it? If there was anything alien >>>>on that mesa, then I cannot imagine the military / MJ-12 / the >>>>Unholy 13 (a shout- out there to Major Randle) being so cavalier >>>>/ stupid as to just bury it 18 inches down. Good lord - my dog >>>>could find that! This account gives "crack team" a whole new >>>>meaning, in that they must have been smoking the stuff if this >>>>was the best they could do. So, Fred Reed? Worthless. >>>The "OSS statement" is/was an error on "Scott's part"; it was >>>erroneously published in his article, as well as your >>>documentary. If your argument (to discount Reed's "so-called >>>testimony") is based on the premise that the military is beyond >>>culpability in acting without acumen, then said argument is on >>the same level of your opinion of the witness's statement. >>No, Frank, my argument is that no super secret group, which, >>according to Scott was made up of the best people they had (see >>my film, wherein he states, in essence, "they learned from >>Roswell, and so would not make stupid mistakes again."), would >>bury alien material in 18 inches of desert dirt, for the two >>reasons I cited. This is a point you seem to have missed, or for >>which you have no answer. Again, Reed's testimony is worthless >>as a result. >You're confusing to different factions Paul; Reed was not part >of the "top secret group;" he was part of a "clean-up crew" (my >analogy) after everything was removed-he was not "need to know." >He was, "ordered to collect any foreign items they found and >then bury them eighteen inches deep; to =E2=80=98soft landscape=E2=80=99= any >areas where heavy equipment tracks were visible and to do an >extensive survey on the entire mesa." He was under the >impression at the time, that he was there "after an "airplane >crash." I'm not confusing anything here, Frank. Read what I wrote again. Better yet, you and everyone else should check out my blog on Fred Reed, which shows his testimony to be completely worthless, and calls into question the methodology and credulousness of the Aztec proponents. It can be found at: www.redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2005/03/fred-reed-aztec-red-flag.html >>The afore mentioned quote, "they learned from Roswell, and so >>would not make stupid mistakes again," was not from Reed! See >>your film! Again, read what I wrote. I never said it was. I said "No secret group", which, according to Scott was made up of the best people they had - see my film, wherein he states, in essence, "they learned from Roswell, and so would not make stupid mistakes again." Scott. Not Reed. Get it? Just like in the film. <snip> >>>>You keep tossing the term "60 direct and indirect witnesses" >>>>around. But where are they? Scott's article laid out five, that >>>>I've dealt with (and, in the case of Farley and Nolan, will >>>>comment on further below). >>>Scott, has rightfully been protective of his work, and hopefully >>>will be until it's completed. >>The truth, Frank, abhors a vacuum. If you're going to say you >>have 60 witnesses, then let people know who they are. If you're >>not willing to do that, then just talk about the information you >>are willing to release. Otherwise, all you're doing is issuing >>propaganda, which cannot be responded to, because you're the >>only one "with the info." This is not how a reasoned debate is >>conducted. >First, I would suggest you go back a few paragraphs and reread >what you wrote: >"A good investigator would wait until all the evidence was in >before publishing his conclusions. It's how you avoid making a >fool of yourself." >I'm confused, it seems within the course of a few paragraphs >you've reversed yourself (again). First you suggest it's prudent >not to say anything (which I agree with), then you say, "if >you're going to say you have 60 witnesses, then let people know >who they are." Then you say, if you're not willing to do that, >then just talk about the information you are willing to release. >Huh? (If this is someone lawyer tactic to confuse me-it's >working!) Then you're easily confused. Nothing about the above (mine, at least) is confusing. >As far as propaganda is concerned it would seem that you have >strayed from the position you took in making the documentary >(neutral), and are now yelling from the bully pulpit. As far as >a "reasoned debate" is concerned, I'm sure Scott would be happy >to oblige when his work has concluded. The bully pulpit? My little old blog is a bully pulpit? Wow. People aren't allowed to change their minds? Wow. Why is it propaganda if I offer conclusions, but not when Scott does it? Could it be because you agree with Scott and not with me? Aha - there we have it. As for a reasoned debate with Scott - anytime, any place. The great thing about Scott, who is, as I've said over and over again, a stand-up guy, is that he encouraged me from the get go to come to my own conclusions, just as I'm fine with him coming to his. At the time of the film, two years ago, we were both, to some degree or another, on the fence, albeit leaning in different directions. Our positions have evolved since, and we both now sit on opposite sides of that fence. Fair enough, at least as far as I'm concerned. >>We have five witnesses that Scott has made public. They are, >>until he makes the rest public, the only ones that are relevant. >>Any discussion of other witnesses is useless, because we don't >>know who they are. >I don't think "any" discussion is useless, that's what this >forum is for; however, to "draw conclusions" about Aztec (in >reference to Scott's work, as well as the afore mentioned >witnesses from what little has been publicized, certainly isn't >prudent. (IMHO). Of course it's useless, because there can be no discussion of them until we know who they are. Heck, we don't even know what they're saying! How can you discuss that? ><snip> >>>The value of a witnesses' testimony is not predicated on whether >>>it's in the public arena or not. >>The value of a witnesses testimony can only be ascertained after >>that testimony has been made public, so that it can be tested for >>authenticity, credibility, and so forth. >Too bad that judge didn't know that in the CAUS v CIA and CAUS v >NSA lawsuits, or any of the presidents and or congressman past >or present that have given "closed door testimony." Ah, the "two wrongs make a right" school of thought. Are you sure you're not a lawyer, Frank? >>>Personally, I wish Scott wouldn't have made any witness names >>>public. I don't believe, to use the analogy your so fond of, >>>that he should present his case until he can do so in it's >>>entirety; I present "you" as my "best evidence" in that regard. >>Here I agree with you. An acceptable alternative would be to >>say, "here is the evidence we have discovered so far, which is >>sufficient to warrant further investigation/examination of the >>case." This is the stance that my film took. >Your sure? Yep. It says so right at the end. Thanks for asking, though. ><snip> >>>So to surmise: Sticking with just the few witnesses mentioned, >>>rather then "consider" the possibility that the "death bed" >>>declarations of "independent witnesses" and corroboration of >>>said declarations by the "similarities" in each account has >>>"something to do with the content," i.e., that a "disc shaped >>>craft" came down in Hart Canyon, you choose to believe it was >>>either some grandiose "conspiracy hoax," or the delusions of >>>"elderly stroke victims?" (Gives a new definition to the term, >>>"believer"). >>It's not a question of belief, Frank. With respect, you >>obviously don't understand oral research methodology, the >>influence that an interviewer can have on testimony, >>particularly on an elderly interviewee, and the problems with >>memory in stroke victims. Until we see the transcripts of the >>interviews, we'll never know, will we, whether Scott asked >>leading questions or not, or how the witnesses answered. >So, if I understand you correctly, previously, you said, "I had >access to all the relevant documents," and then said, "we have >five witnesses that Scott has made public. They are, until he >makes the rest public, the only ones that are relevant." Yet, >you didn't see the "transcripts of his interviews" with said >witnesses? Ah, now I get it - you're not a lawyer. You're a politician. Only they could master the duck and dive, and the art of misdirection, as well as you have here. Nope, I didn't see any transcripts. Scott didn't offer, and I didn't press, which, in hindsight, was a mistake on my part, but, in my defense, we were on a tight schedule (and budget), and had only two days to get the entire interview done, so we were pressed for time, and I took Scott at his word that what he related was what the people had actually said. I still do (I have never questioned the substance of what he says they said to him; what I now question is the circumstances under which they said it (Nolan and Farley, that is), for which the transcripts are needed. However, as no transcripts have been brought forward, even for the witnesses Scott does talk about, I suspect there are none. I sure hope I'm wrong. >Again, I'm confused; since these are the very people you've >chosen to denigrate, wouldn't it be pertinent to inspect the the >transcripts of the interviews of those very people when you had >the opportunity? First, I'm not denigrating these people (well, maybe Reed, but he deserves it; and it's hard to denigrate someone who is "anonymous"). I'm calling into question their testimony, and the circumstances under which it was obtained. The easy answer would be to make the full transcripts public for those witnesses that are public, and which Scott is discussing in print and at lectures. ><snip> >>>Admittedly, I haven't read all of the content in regards to >>>Aztec on your Blog; I respond to "what you say, where you say >>>it." >>Then you haven't been responding to "what I say" as I referred >>people to my blog for a fuller explanation. I know it drives EBK >>nuts, but to simply repeat the information here when it exists >>elsewhere is a waste of his time in formatting it and mine in >>sending it. I wouldn't expect you to repeat everything verbatim >>that Scott wrote in his MUFON article - if you referenced it, as >>you did, I would go look it up and read it myself before I >>replied. >To be specific, Paul, I meant that this discussion started here, >and I have been responding to what you say here, "here!" Also, I >have to disagree with you again, I don't believe your >participation here is a waste of time. Moreover, for me I don't >mind posting whatever is necessary to support my views for those >that haven't fallen asleep reading our little contention. I never said my participation here was a waste of time (it's hard to eat these days, what with all the words some folks at UpDates insist on putting in my mouth). What I said was that repeating information that can be found elsewhere is a waste of time. There is a difference. As for posting something that would support your views on Aztec, I can't wait. Haven't seen anything yet, though; just a lot of rhetoric, and generalisations. ><snip> >>You can only see the larger picture if you follow the proper >>methodology and test the evidence as you find it; otherwise, >>each time you deviate from the methodology, you skew the >>picture, and move further from the truth. >Ah semantics... I say "tomato"..... Wow. If you think this is semantics, what can I say..... Best regards, Paul Kimball www.redstarfilms.blogspot.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:59:36 -0300 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:00:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:01:31 +0000 >Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>From: A.J. Gevaerd <Brazilian UFO Magazine <ufo2005.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:06:28 -0300 >>Subject: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>Ashtar Sheran -- Is there such an alien or is he only a fantasy >>of creative minds? >>A comprehensive sociologic, historic and scientific study of its >>origin and interaction with mankind, as reported by people over >>the last decades. >>By Rogerio Chola [rogerio.chola.nul] and Laura Elias >>[laura.elias.nul] >>Brazilian UFO Magazine - Special Edition 33, April 2005 >He is a fantasy of not terribly creative minds; in fact of >rather feeble minds. Dick: That is also part of the study conducted by Chola and Laura. They cover quite all forms of manifestation of Ashtar Sheran, the ones considered genuine and the ones considered only fantasy, from tale and folklore. That is a very serious study that doesn=B4t try to prove that Ashtar exists or doesn=B4t exist. This is not the intention. It only shows how it has been seen and considered by people. A. J. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:48:57 -0300 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:02:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:00:12 -0700 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:24:41 -0400 >>Subject: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >>Filer's Files #16 - 2005, >>Skywatch Investigations >>George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern >>Vice President of Skywatch International >>April 13, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com >>Did a Congressman Find Data Confirming Roswell Crash? >>Brian Vike, Director, HBCC UFO Research on March 23, 2005 has >>released a letter that was written to a Mr. Robert F. Brown, a >>fellow who explained to me that he was persistent in his pursuit >>of information through different government agencies on a >>sighting event, which he witnessed in late 1949 or early 1950 >>when he was 11 or 12 years old. Robert wrote letters to his >>Congressman, Mr. William D. Delahunt of Massachusetts in hopes >>that he would have the means to help retrieve alleged documents >>that may be floating around in an archive about Robert's >>sighting. In the years Mr. Brown has been tracking down the >>information he is looking for, he has been communicating with >>Congressman Delahunt's office, the FBI and Department of >>Justice. Brian says, "I would like to point out in the letter >>posted with this report has one sentence which I found to be of >>greatest interest:" >>"Thank you for your letter about UFOs and the July 1947 incident >>that happened in Roswell, New Mexico. After looking into this >>matter, I have found that the debris from that is still being >>analyzed and is not open to the public at this time." >>I like so many others were under the impression that there was >>officially no UFO crash at Roswell in 1947, according to the >>government/military. The doors were closed on this sometime ago >>and some varying ideas were thrown out to us all on what the >>military said took place. So, when I read the letter from the >>office of Congressman, Mr. William D. Delahunt, I see it as >>reading: "Someone has looked into the alleged Roswell event and >>possibly found information on the actual crashed craft. Very >>strange, if you ask me. The letter signed by a staff member can >>be viewed at: >>http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=25 >>89 Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research >Of course the reason they are still analyzing the Roswell debris >is because it was from a Project Mogul top secret balloon, which >was made of such top, top, top secret rubber, tinfoil, balsa >wood, Scotch tape, etc., that they still can't figure it out. >But back on planet Earth, Congressman Delahunt's office has just >dropped an absolutely _huge_ hint that there is much more to the >Roswell crash than a Mogul balloon. Skeptical Listers should >take note. I talked to people in two of Delahunt's offices... Kylie Miller is in Hyannis - not DC. The input about Roswell all came from the International UFO Museum and Research Center. _Not_ from anybody in the government. Sorry. I don't know why Brian Vike, who had faxed me a copy of the letter last Thursday - I left town early Friday - %released the letter especially with Brown's address without checking. Trust but Verify!! Stan Friedman Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Imaginary Traumas From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:30:31 +0200 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:03:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:45 EDT >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas <snip> >So, you have been offered the statistics, and you have been >offered the definitions. I have supplied, as well, the sources >for those statistics and that information. So, do you reject the >idea that sleep paralysis might explain some cases of alien >abduction? Or are you willing to admit that more research needs >to be done? Kevin, I am willing to admit that a few alleged cases of abduction are just cases of sleep paralysis. But your finding that half of your sample described symptoms like that does not prove that they all suffered from just that. This would be jumping to a fast conclusion, dumping the rest of their stories. It is just not enough to say : "it looks like that, so it is just that and nothing else". I have read your book, after those of many other researchers, on abductions. I have met with some of them : Budd Hopkins, John Mack, David Jacobs, Constance Clear, Yvonne Smith, and others. I have appreciated their quality, and, to tell you my opinion, I find your approach very reductive of this big, worrying problem of abductions. Gildas Bourdais Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Introduction/Linda Cortile Case From: Aaron LeClair <saucer.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:45:03 -0400 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:04:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Introduction/Linda Cortile Case >From: Steven O'Mullan <p0werslave666.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:32:17 +0100 >Subject: Introduction/Linda Cortile Case >Hello, sorry don't know much about the etiquette on the List so >just an email to say hello, my name's Stevie, from Scotland. >I've searched the net but can't find any recent news on the >Linda Cortile case - are there any updates? For instance, the >son John must now be about 23. Has he spoke out about the case >at all? Has anyone conclusively debunked the whole thing? Did >Dan and Richard ever become "unmasked"? >Sorry if this is old, -old_ news but I can't find much on it >other than stuff from years ago. I haven't been able to find anything new either. And I have been looking off and on for years. If there is something new, Budd hasn't been outspoken about it. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: The NASA Moon Photos From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:03:48 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:05:19 -0500 Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:53:56 EDT >Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:15:34 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:16:19 EDT >>>Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >>In the early 70's I got to read something like 140,000 pages >>of Apollo mission transcripts ... >It may have been 160,000 pages, I did a page-count estimate >somewhere. It took me many half-day and all-day sessions at NASA >from 1970 to 1974 and I took detailed notes of the interesting >things reported, especially any hint of coverup or subterfuge. If you showed up every work day for 5 years and worked 8 hours a day that works out to 15 pages/hour, and 4 hours/ day is 30 pages/hour. Hard to do with technical documents and mind-numbing! Impressive work. You should get an award. But of course, you don't get an award because you did not find any conspiracy smoking gun, etc. This is the "file drawer" report phenomena in which negative or non-results don't get reported because it is felt no one would be interested in a non-discovery. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:40:26 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:05:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:36:06 EDT >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> >>To: <ufopdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:12:06 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>Witness statement: >>I went into the Auditorium at JSC with my wife in 1994, saw a >>Lunar Rover in the display, right next to the Lunar Excursion >>Module, commonly called the LEM, and the damned thing had two >>cameras on it. One on the front and one on the back. I may have >>been wrong on the actual locations, but the damned thing had two >>cameras. >>I don't owe anyone an apology for what I originally wrote! >Yeah you do. You owe everyone an apology for your fable. NASA >renamed the "Lunar Excursion Module" (LEM) to the simple LM >(Lunar Module) in 1967 -- before there ever was even a first >Apollo lunar landing. >Therefore you could not have seen a "LEM" "commonly called" >that, at NASA Johnson Space Center in 1994 "right next" to the >Lunar Rover, 27 years after NASA had renamed LEM's to LM's AND >claim it was "commonly called the LEM." Does NASA supposedly not >know its own Apollo mission terminology after 27 years?? Does >NASA need a lecture from a "fireman" on the name of the Lunar >Module and how NASA has apparently not called it by the name it >is "commonly called" and has used the wrong name for 27 years?? >I can't even imagine where in 1994 (or 2005) you could have >dredged up the "LEM" name from the mid-60's in the first place >for a supposed honest "confusion" if it was that. How do you >"honestly confuse" something that has not existed or been used >since a planning stage in the mid-60's with the name "LM" that >was actually used? Mr. Sparks, the LM vs LEM issue is a little picky. The Kennedy Space Center gift shop sells a "Lunar Excursion Module" today(!): http://www.thespaceshop.com/luexmowist.html If the model he saw was a manufacturer's prototype or model then it would correctly carry the LEM designation. If the curator was not up-to-date in his display or had inadequate knowledge, he might have the wrong designation (and this DOES occur at NASA and elsewhere). Here's one at the Virginia Air& Space Center: http://www.vasc.org/exhibits/spacecraft/lems.html On display at the Museum of Discovery & Science in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.(nicely labelled "Lunar Excursion Module"): http://www.hightechscience.org/apollo_lunar_module_model.htm Give the codger a break! Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: The NASA Moon Photos From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:53:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:06:47 -0500 Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:19:51 +0100 >Subject: Re: The NASA Moon Photos >>From: Simon Hicks <slh.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:30:51 +0800 >>Subject: The NASA Moon Photos >>The NASA Moon Photos >>My Story Of Dealing With NASA In The 1970's >>by Vito Saccheri >>Leonard had mentioned that the photos were >>numbered sequentially by the cameras. He also had mentioned >>that each time the on-board computer analyzing a photo picked >>up an anomaly, it triggered a sequence of additional photos that >>zoomed in on the target closer and closer. >Real-time image analysis, "anomaly" detection, and autonomous >decision-making by "on-board computer"? In the 1970s? I'd like to >hear what James Smith has to say about that! The book this guy was talking about was full of Lunar Orbiter images with UFO-like objects and odd surface formations/objects. There were five such Lunar Orbiter missions to help figure out nice Apollo landing sites. This occurred during the 1966-67 time frame. Anyway, NASA Langley was in charge of the mission and this explains the reason why the image numbering was related to the "Langley, Virginia" region the witness wrote about. Brad Sparks was right and the witness blithely misunderstood the location and infers some sort of secrecy was involved . Well, it spiced up the story! The interesting part of the Lunar Orbiter spacecraft was that it used a imaging system (developed by Kodak) which was an UNCLASSIFIED version of the CORONA system used in spy work done by National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) in Virginia. The resolution was ~1 meter (!). With 610 mm and 80mm lenses and 70 mm film. The film was developed onboard using a Kodak method. It took pictures on the film with both lenses at the same time. But it has to be understood that the camera on the vehicle was orbiting the Moon (did not return with its film) and was taking film images and scanning them in and sending them in a signal which was then processed back into film on the ground. The original video signal tapes (100's of them) are probably sitting in some warehouse at NASA Langley rotting. There has been mention elsewhere ("Spaceflight Revolution: NASA Langley From Sputnik to Apollo") that NASA did not get to look in the "imaging box". This is odd because there are a number of documents showing how the "box" works as well as pictures and diagrams and detailed descriptions of processes. What the reference meant was that the original CLASSIFIED camera/imaging box, used in EARTH orbit (lookng at Soviets?) was such that no NASA person was allowed to look in it. But NASA actually was able to get Kodak to develop a NONCLASSIFIED device (by going through the right military channels) for the Lunar Orbiter missions. So, NASA was able to look into the device they flew. >Witness statement: >"He (Roger) also had mentioned that >each time the on-board computer analyzing a photo picked up an >anomaly, it triggered a sequence of additional photos that >zoomed in on the target closer and closer. " There was no such device. There were only two fixed lenses. How can you zoom? The spacecraft photo subsystem was designed to provide the capability of automatically performing definite sequences of events, including film exposure, film processing and drying, film transportation, and photo data readout. Each of these automatic sequences was initiated and controlled by a series of commands originating at the Space Flight Operations Facility (on Earth). Sure the orbiter had a computer (enough RAM to hold a whopping 128- 21 bit words!). Problems with picture quality were fixed with Earth sent commands AFTER the images had been sent and developed back at Earth. All the algorithms used to determine the camera parameters were calculated on the ground by computer programs and included all sorts of factors (including radiation!). But ulitimately, this data was used to determine the simple commands needed to be fed into the spacecraft to perform good photography. The on -board imaging system was complicated in that it had to adjust the camera tracking to deal with the fast pass at the bottom of the orbit where all the pictures were taken at. This was called tracking error and they used a velocity/height sensor (an optical system)to adjust for this. It was a fairly sophisticated/complicated method for doing this that did not always work (RFI problems). You would get image smear if the wrong value was entered, etc. It was an image tracker which scanned a portion of the image formed by the 24-inch lens and compared circular scans to measure the rate and direction of image motion. The direction information was used to control the spacecraft yaw attitude and the rate information was supplied to the image motion compensation servomechanism (movable platen) and to the exposure interval controller. The primary imaging noise problems were due to the film and the communication system although there were others. >"The clarity and resolution were unlike that of anything I had >seen before or since, and I shudder to think that this was only >the beginnings of the spy-in-the-sky technology that has evolved >since then. " The Apollo spacecraft took high resolution film images (1-2 meters) which were brought back to Earth and did not lose quality in digitizing, transmission and regeneration on Earth as the Lunar Orbiter ones did. >"She explained that the space program had developed many >technologies which at the time had not been declassified or >adapted for commercial use. Declassified?! More likely that they were simply not authorized for commercial use yet. >One of these new developments - >unknown to the general public - was instant replay video, which >would become common later. But in 1969 and 70, only a handful of >people were aware of it. Yes. Fine. >Thus, NASA could switch the Mission >Control picture to a live broadcast of a news reporter standing >next to a full-scale mockup, and while a viewer's attention was >diverted, the real stuff was happening behind the scenes." Oh Jeez! Yes, real time conspiracy stuff! How many times have I heard this with Shuttle and ISS? Yeah, keep the finger to the button waiting for the UFO to show up or the glass lunar domes to appear in a picture (how about an obelisk?). Come on! >"When I met moon photo researcher Marvin Czarnik in 1995, I >learned that he had helped develop some of the technical systems >used at NASA. Besides the length of time of instant replay, he >knew that code words like "Alpha" and "Bravo' referred to >special switching stations around the country that "switch" >broadcast reception away from Houston and Mission Control >directly to CIA headquarters in Langley. This was my missing >puzzle piece. I knew then for certain who it was that had the >master list of photographs. " What a joke! The "witness" was deducing that NASA Langley was CIA at Langley (like Sparks said). NASA Langley was responsible for the Lunar Orbiter so THEY controlled the list. This switching crap is more confusion from someone who wants to be confused. >"In 1980, another puzzle piece fell into place. A friend had >shown me a special congressional subcommittee report on moon >rocks brought back by the astronauts and a feasibility study on >colonizing the moon. The document was dated 1972 or '73 and >concluded that moon colonization using giant plastic air bubbles >was unrealistic and that we would need to transport air from the >earth. The congressional report concluded that there was plenty >of oxygen on the moon trapped in the rocks. The recommend >solution: pulverize the rocks on a large scale with major >excavations. The liberated oxygen would be stored in underground >caverns and tunnel systems and the debris from these pulverized >rocks dumped into the existing craters. What?! It doesn't matter where you dump the debris. Why fill in craters? To make it nice and smooth or somthing? >Naturally, the craters >would eventually disappear, an observation made by astronomers >long before the first moon landings and, ironically, one that >had initially prompted Leonard and other scientists of the 1950s >to analyze early moon photos. " Malarky. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:46:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:07:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:36:06 EDT >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >Yeah you do. You owe everyone an apology for your fable. NASA >renamed the "Lunar Excursion Module" (LEM) to the simple LM >(Lunar Module) in 1967 -- before there ever was even a first >Apollo lunar landing. Also, some experts in the field may not know that the LEM should really be called LM..... Entry Vehicle Control System Design For The Mars Smart Lander Authors: Calhoun, Philip C.; Queen, Eric M. AIAA Atmospheric Flight Mechanics Conference; 5-8 Aug. 2002; Monterey, CA; United States: "The NASA Langley Research Center, in cooperation with the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, participated in a preliminary design study of the Entry, Descent and Landing phase for the Mars Smart Lander Project..... A candidate entry vehicle controller based on the Reaction Control System controller for the Apollo Lunar Excursion Module digital autopilot is proposed for use in the entry vehicle attitude control." History Of Doppler Radar Navigation Author: Fried, Walter R. Navigation vol. 40, no. 2 p. 121-136. Summer 1993 "This paper traces the history of the development and applications of Doppler radar navigation systems from their inception in the mid-1940s to the present. .... a Doppler radar was used for velocity measurement on the Surveyor and the Apollo Lunar Excursion Module for the achievement of soft landing on the moon." Design Of Equipment For Lunar Dust Removal Authors: Belden, Lacy; Cowan, Kevin; Kleespies, Hank Date: JAN 1, 1991: NASA-CR-190014 "NASA has a long range goal of constructing a fully equipped, manned lunar base on the near side of the moon by the year 2015..... In addition, the atmosphere and internal surfaces of the lunar excursion module were contaminated by lunar dust which was brought in on articles passed through the airlock. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:47:23 -0400 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:08:16 -0500 Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:29:16 -0400 >Subject: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >I'm just going to put this out there because I think I have to. >However, I will not debate the value or validity of the >material. I firmly believe this is _strong_ evidence for UFOs >being _intelligently_ guided and makes a strong case for the >reality the abductees have testifying about for decades. >See for yourself: >http://www.virtuallystrange.com/aic/formation.html >Ladies and gents, you are cordially invited to make of this what >you will. As I said, I consider it compelling evidence. I am >dead certain others will consider it the product of a fevered >imagination. Interesting. You showed only one frame. How does this arrangement change with time or does it stay constant? Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:48:14 -0400 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:08:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >From: A.J. Gevaerd <Brazilian UFO Magazine <ufo2005.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:06:28 -0300 >Subject: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >Ashtar Sheran -- Is there such an alien or is he only a fantasy >of creative minds? >A comprehensive sociologic, historic and scientific study of its >origin and interaction with mankind, as reported by people over >the last decades. >By Rogerio Chola [rogerio.chola.nul] and Laura Elias >[laura.elias.nul] >Brazilian UFO Magazine - Special Edition 33, April 2005 Those interested in Ashtar should read about my experience at: http://brumac.8k.com/ashtar.html Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Possible UFO Sighting From ISS From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:35:39 -0500 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:09:41 -0500 Subject: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS Leroy Chiao, the commander from the current ISS crew saw something interesting while performing an EVA. It's at the end of the article. For those who are spacenuts on the list (like myself) it should be an entertaining article. Enjoy! ----- Source: Aviation Week - page 26 http://tinyurl.com/9oee3 04/11/2005 Station Commander Discusses U.S., Russian Spacesuit Differences Aviation Week & Space Technology Craig Covault Kennedy Space Center ISS commander describes EVA issues as new crew plans ops in U.S., Russian spacesuits, Style Differences The International Space Station Expedition 11 crew, set for liftoff Apr. 15 from the Baikonur Cosmodrome, is to perform two extravehicular activities--one in Russian and the other in U.S. spacesuits, a unique combination that points up different national space-operating styles. The outgoing Expedition 10 commander, astronaut Leroy Chiao, addressed the differences in an e-mail exchange from the ISS with Aviation Week & Space Technology. Chiao is well qualified to discuss these topics, having logged four shuttle-based EVAs in the American suit and two in the Russian Orlan, the most recent one Mar. 28 (AW&ST Apr. 4, p. 32). Chiao and Expedition 10 cosmonaut Salizhan Sharipov are to return to Earth in their own Soyuz Apr. 25. As are all ISS crewmembers, the incoming Expedition 11 commander, cosmonaut Sergei Krikalev, and engineer astronaut John Phillips are trained to operate in either of the substantially different EVA suits. But it's unusual for a mission to split EVAs between the two different suit types. This is being planned on the new flight to ensure that the U.S. suits and its Quest airlock system are operational after several months of problems that limited all EVAs to the Russian suit. The plan could change, but the initial Expedition 11 EVA to retrieve experiments is to be done in the Russian Orlan suit that operates at 5.9 psi. The second EVA, however, to install hardware on the station's exterior is to be done in the U.S. suit, the Hamilton Sundstrand extravehicular mobility unit (EMU) that has a hard upper torso and operates at 4.3 psi. The EMU's lower operating pressure and mechanical/constant volume joints, rather than a fabric bladder arm and shoulder joint design (as in the Russian suit), provide less suit resistance (AW&ST Jan. 16, 1995, p.40). "There are differences, both for operations as well as maintenance," says Chiao. "The American EMU offers superior EVA performance, but at a high logistical and overhead price. Also, it has design shortcomings for use on long-duration missions, which need to be addressed. The Russian Orlan is logistically simple and requires low overhead. It is superior in reliability and robustness. However, it is more fatiguing to work in and is therefore less capable during an actual EVA than the American EMU. "The Orlan is a fine spacesuit, but it is more stiff and fatiguing than the EMU, mostly because of the higher operating pressure. Also, the Russian method of operating is pretty much free-float, which is also somewhat more fatiguing than being in a foot restraint or using a body restraint tether [to hold you in place]," says Chiao. "If I had this [most recent] EVA to do over, I think I would like to try a body-restraint tool, to see how well that would work with the Orlan. "THE AMERICAN EMU is much less fatiguing than the Russian Orlan, owing to its lower operating pressure, custom-fitted gloves and changeable arm segments. Also, the helmet affords more visibility due to the shape of the visor profile. It is significantly easier to work in. So, for a complex, fatiguing task, I would opt to use an American EMU," he says. "It is fair to say that all EVA operations that can be performed in an Orlan, can be performed in an EMU. But the reverse is not necessarily true," he notes. "One simply has more capability in the EMU. However, the lower U.S. suit pressure means either a 4- hr. prebreathe, or the exercise-prebreathe protocol, which involves insignificant overhead longer than the 35-min. Orlan prebreathe. "Also, the multiple sizes of U.S. gloves and arm segments leads to logistical challenges of getting the right parts on board. "Additionally, as has been highlighted by the pump problems that we have had, the American EMU was not designed to be a long- duration suit. It was expected to operate in the shuttle environment, being brought back to the ground to be serviced after every mission." In contrast, he says, "the Orlan is a very functional and pragmatic suit, which reflects a basic difference in design philosophy between U.S. and Russian hardware in general." He cited, as examples, "rather than one high-tech motor that operates both the pump and fan (single-point failure on the EMU), the Orlan has two pumps and two fans. Their toggle switches are on the easy-to-reach control panel. It's a very robust suit, it pretty much always works," he says. "Except for the choice between two glove sizes, the Orlan is one-size-fits-all. One adjusts straps on the arm and leg segments to adjust to personal size. This is simple logistically. The price however, is that the bunched material [of the Russian suit] makes an already stiff suit that much more so." And Chiao pointed out that no matter which suit a crewmember operates, or what type of task is being done, the views of Earth and space are always extraordinary when working outside. "During this last EVA, I did see something interesting. As the Sun started rising after the first dark period, I looked out in the opposite direction of the Sun and saw a line of five lights. "They appeared to by 'flying' in an echelon formation, except that 'No. 2' was offset. They flew past us fairly quickly. I don't know what they were, but I would guess that I either saw a constellation of satellites being illuminated brightly by the rising Sun, or they were bright lights from oil platforms actually down on the Earth, but with all the other lights around them washed out by the rising Sun. "It just shows you that after spending a lot of time in space and out on EVAs, there are still things that you can see that still surprise you," he told Aviation Week from the ISS. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:29:37 -0700 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:10:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:00:12 -0700 >Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:24:41 -0400 >>Subject: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >>Filer's Files #16 - 2005, >>Skywatch Investigations >>George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern >>Vice President of Skywatch International >>April 13, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com >>Did a Congressman Find Data Confirming Roswell Crash? >>Brian Vike, Director, HBCC UFO Research on March 23, 2005 has >>released a letter that was written to a Mr. Robert F. Brown, a >>fellow who explained to me that he was persistent in his pursuit >>of information through different government agencies on a >>sighting event, which he witnessed in late 1949 or early 1950 >>when he was 11 or 12 years old. Robert wrote letters to his >>Congressman, Mr. William D. Delahunt of Massachusetts in hopes >>that he would have the means to help retrieve alleged documents >>that may be floating around in an archive about Robert's >>sighting. In the years Mr. Brown has been tracking down the >>information he is looking for, he has been communicating with >>Congressman Delahunt's office, the FBI and Department of >>Justice. Brian says, "I would like to point out in the letter >>posted with this report has one sentence which I found to be of >>greatest interest:" >>"Thank you for your letter about UFOs and the July 1947 incident >>that happened in Roswell, New Mexico. After looking into this >>matter, I have found that the debris from that is still being >>analyzed and is not open to the public at this time." >>I like so many others were under the impression that there was >>officially no UFO crash at Roswell in 1947, according to the >>government/military. The doors were closed on this sometime ago >>and some varying ideas were thrown out to us all on what the >>military said took place. So, when I read the letter from the >>office of Congressman, Mr. William D. Delahunt, I see it as >>reading: "Someone has looked into the alleged Roswell event and >>possibly found information on the actual crashed craft. Very >>strange, if you ask me. The letter signed by a staff member can >>be viewed at: >>http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=25 >>89 Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research >Of course the reason they are still analyzing the Roswell debris >is because it was from a Project Mogul top secret balloon, which >was made of such top, top, top secret rubber, tinfoil, balsa >wood, Scotch tape, etc., that they still can't figure it out. >But back on planet Earth, Congressman Delahunt's office has just >dropped an absolutely _huge_ hint that there is much more to the >Roswell crash than a Mogul balloon. Skeptical Listers should >take note. Back here on planet Earth, Dave Vetterick just emailed me to let me know that a call to the staff member of the Delahunt letter revealed that the source of the Roswell information wasn't some government agency but the Roswell museum. So much for that Roswell revelation. David Rudiak Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Montana Air Force Base Witness To Give From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:11:47 -0500 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:11:47 -0500 Subject: Montana Air Force Base Witness To Give Source: Aberdeen News - Aberdeen, South Dakota http://www.aberdeennews.com/mld/aberdeennews/news/11401586.htm Apr. 15, 2005 Expert Gives UFO Presentation Monday Was Present For Incident Over Montana Air Force Base By Scott Waltman American News Writer For some reason, aliens seem to have an interest in the nuclear weapons of the United States. So says Robert Hastings, an independent expert on unidentified flying objects who will be speaking at Northern State University next week. His 90-minute presentation will begin at 9 p.m. Monday in Room 127 of the Johnson Fine Arts Center. Hastings said the declassified documents and on-the-record comments he will share will prove to those willing to listen that UFOs do exist. Most of the documents and comments come from former federal government and military officials. After a 30-minute video, Hastings will lecture for an hour. One story he will share is from 1967. That's when evidence shows UFOs hovered over missile silos near a Montana Air Force base, temporarily causing the weapons to malfunction. "There is, for whatever reason, a nuclear (weapon)-UFO connection," he said. Government documents also refer to UFOs violating the airspace over Los Alamos National Laboratory, Hastings said. Many nuclear weapons are designed at the New Mexico lab. Hastings said that perhaps the most interesting document in his collection is a 1950 note to then-FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover. It says that "flying saucers" crashed in New Mexico and were secretly recovered by the Air Force. The craft, according to the memo, were flown by "bodies of human shape, but only three feet tall." In all, Hastings said hundreds of government documents available to anybody through the Freedom of Information Act refer to UFOs. Hastings was at an air traffic control tower in Montana at the time of the 1967 incident. That's what piqued his interest in UFOs. He's been doing independent research since 1973, reviewing documents and interviewing people. Since starting to lecture at colleges in 1981, he has spoke at more than 500 schools. There are skeptics in every audience, Hastings said. However, he said, most people he talks to give him favorable feedback. He said that may be because people who attend his lectures have an interest in UFOs and, perhaps, an inclination to believe in them. Reliable public opinion polls show that about half of Americans believe in UFOs, Hastings said. Even ardent non-believers are welcomed to Hastings' free talk. He simply reminds detractors that there's a difference between having an opinion and having an informed opinion. In publicity information, Hastings writes that he is "not condemning any government agency for its policy of secrecy regarding UFOs, but I believe that the American public should be given the facts." Hastings lives in Surfside Beach, S.C. While in this part of the country, he is also speaking in Dickinson, N.D. and Peru, Neb. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Aliens & Child Abduction From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 05:58:05 -0500 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:12:26 -0500 Subject: Aliens & Child Abduction Wow! Check this out... does this cross a line? If so, what line does it cross? http://aliensandchildren.org/ alienview.nul -:|:- www.AlienView.net Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:13:27 -0500 Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear By Aaron Sakulich Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did they know that they would be returning to terror! As they drove, they noticed a light moving erratically in the sky and, after a short time, it began to trail the car. Barney pulled over and got out his binoculars to get a better look, whereupon he discovered it was as hip of some sort, and he could make out human-like shapes moving behind a row of portholes. He kept repeating "I don't believe it!" to himself, though his wife, in the car and without binoculars, didn't know what he was talking about at the time. As the craft grew closer, Barney cried out something along the lines of "They're gonna get us!" He hopped in the car and sped off "at breakneck speed." The next thing the couple knew, it was 2 hours later and they were only a short distance away from where they'd seen the craft, without memories. In the coming weeks, they would begin experiencing nightmares of being abducted and physically "examined" by aliens, undergo intense hypnotic therapy, and become the most famous UFO-related celebrities of the modern era. This is one of the most well known and most historically important cases of alien abduction of all time, mainly because it's all baloney. However, it was well televised baloney, and that brought UFO abductions, and the little gray men that the Hills reported seeing, into the mainstream of popular culture. What actually happened to the Hills that night? Hell if I know. But I know what didn't happen: They were not, absolutely not, kidnapped by space aliens. The reason I say this is based on a number of things. After the abduction, there's a period of "amnesia" where the abductee remembers nothing out of the ordinary. Then, after having some nightmares or "partially recovered memories," the abductee undergoes months of intense hypnotherapy, at the end of which they come to realize they really were kidnapped by space aliens. This is exactly how it happened in the Hill case: They never actually got around to telling the authoritative "complete" version of the story until years after the incident happened. What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. Her husband, on the other hand, didn't think anything unusual had happened, and only after six months of "therapy" was he ready to admit he'd been taken aboard a spaceship. In the words of Dr Simon, a prominent Boston psychiatrist that treated the Hills "People do not necessarily tell the factual truth while they are under hypnosis --- all they tell is what they believe to be the truth." It was his opinion that Betty Hill made the whole thing up and only under hypnosis was she able to convince her husband that it had happened. (Fun side note: UFO enthusiasts claim that Dr. Simon, a fully trained and reputable mental health professional, made these statements because he was afraid of damaging his reputation by being associated with UFOs. Hogwash. There are plenty of ways for a person to distance themselves from UFOs that don't include flat- out saying your patients are lying.) So, let's look at some other interesting tidbits from the case. Betty Hill later brought a number of people out to the UFO "landing site." None of the people saw anything, except for Betty Hill, who claimed that a spacecraft and crew were sitting in the very center of the area. She was just, for some advanced alien reason, the only one able to spot it. Barney Hill, for his part, described seeing a being inside the spacecraft "with large wraparound eyes" which I think we can all agree is a bit odd. He never mentioned it in the original version of his story: In fact, he made this claim 12 days after a popular TV show, The Outer Limits, featured a character with the exact same features. The Outer Limits was a show popular in the mid-sixties, and this particular episode, "The Bellero Shield", aired February 10, 1964. Hill never made any mention of such a creature in the three years between the "incident" and the airing of the show, then, less than a fortnight after seeing it on TV, he claimed he'd seen it in 1961. Wraparound eyes are a pretty unique feature, and to the extent of my knowledge, has never been done anywhere else in science fiction. This was all discovered by a gentleman named Martin Kottmeyer as he sat watching TV one night, mind you. It's interesting to also note that I the episode the alien claims that he cannot speak English, but that he can understand a woman's speech by looking into her eyes. All creatures that have eyes, says the alien, have eyes that speak. Interestingly enough, in some of his hypnosis sessions, Barney Hill claimed to see disembodied eyes, or that he was able to speak to aliens through their eyes. Sadly, this insane tale, this mishmash of convoluted late-night TV was eaten up by the UFO enthusiast community, and now wraparound eyes are a not entirely rare detail in many abduction "cases." Before the Hills abductions were relatively rare, and wraparound eyes were totally absent from literature and cinema (except for this episode of The Outer Limits and a Japanese film named The Evil Brain From Outer Space. The special effect monsters for both of these features were made by the same man, who seemed to have a thing for crazy eyes.) Anyway, before the Hills abduction and wraparound eyes were rare and non-existent; after their well-publicized adventures, people started coming out of the woodwork claiming both. The Hills would later claim it was impossible for Barney to have seen the show because he worked nights. However, his shift did not start until midnight, and the show aired at 7:30. You don't need to be a wizened old clockmaker to realize he had plenty of time. So there you have it. It's the case that sparked the phenomena of alien abductions, little gray aliens, and crazy looking eyes. Is it possible that things really happened the way they said? Sure. Nothing's impossible. On the other hand, does it make any sense? Not even remotely. Did space people decide to use the publicity from this case as a starter's pistol, the green light to start kidnapping people en masse? Or did the publicity from this case create other abductions in the same way that this case was created from TV shows and books that Betty Hill had read? I'm no statistician, but even I can see that the second option is the one that makes the most sense. In the words of Robert Schaeffer, "We can find all the major elements of contemporary UFO abductions in a 1930 comic adventure, Buck Rogers in the 25th Century." Be seeing you. Aaron Sakulich is a senior majoring in materials science and engineering. He can be reached at ars27.nul Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 16 Sleeptracker Watch & Evidence For Abductions? From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:28:13 -0400 Archived: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 04:14:18 -0500 Subject: Sleeptracker Watch & Evidence For Abductions? Many thanks to Susan Sayler for the link below, describing a watch with the ability to monitor your sleep state. My quick read of the posted description doesn't reveal exactly how the watch determines your sleep state - obviously the EEG frequency is the best indicator, but it's unlikely the EEG can be read from one's wrist. Perhaps it monitors galvanic skin response, or, pulse rate. (My guess is it's pulse rate.) At any rate it works, so says the article below. The company's web site is: http://www.sleeptracker.com/ Because the watch _records_ your wakeful times, it may be a cheap ($149 USD) way to begin to gather evidence. A watch isn't likely able to store huge amounts of data, so someone intending to use this to gather evidence of abduction needs to be prepared to keep a careful data log either on paper or PC. Over time that's a bit of work, but well worth it if that work begins to paint the picture of what abductees are going through. Here is the link Susan sent: http://tinyurl.com/5ydb9 Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:14:00 -0700 Archived: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:34:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:48:14 -0400 >Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>From: A.J. Gevaerd <Brazilian UFO Magazine <ufo2005.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:06:28 -0300 >>Subject: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>Ashtar Sheran -- Is there such an alien or is he only a >>fantasy of creative minds? >>A comprehensive sociologic, historic and scientific study of its origin and interaction with mankind, as reported by people over the last decades. >>By Rogerio Chola [rogerio.chola.nul] and Laura Elias >>[laura.elias.nul] >>Brazilian UFO Magazine - Special Edition 33, April 2005 >Those interested in Ashtar should read about my experience at: >http://brumac.8k.com/ashtar.html Hello Bruce: An interesting article. Nobody from Ashtar Command will keep me from my coffee or whatever though [burp]. I unsubscribed my regular .nul address from the Brazilian magazine, but promotions still come in to my larry.nul address. Hopefully, A.J. Gevaerd can help remove me from the list of Ashtar (and similar) mailings. Simply I just want to remove all addresses of the form xxxxx.nul I am the only recipient. Best wishes Larry Hatch Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:01:07 -0700 Archived: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:35:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:00:12 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 <snip> >>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> <snip> >>>Did a Congressman Find Data Confirming Roswell Crash? > >>>Brian Vike, Director, HBCC UFO Research on March 23, 2005 has >>>released a letter that was written to a Mr. Robert F. Brown, a >>>fellow who explained to me that he was persistent in his pursuit >>>of information through different government agencies on a >>>sighting event, which he witnessed in late 1949 or early 1950 <snip> >>Of course the reason they are still analyzing the Roswell debris >>is because it was from a Project Mogul top secret balloon, which >>was made of such top, top, top secret rubber, tinfoil, balsa >>wood, Scotch tape, etc., that they still can't figure it out. >>But back on planet Earth, Congressman Delahunt's office has just >>dropped an absolutely _huge_ hint that there is much more to the >>Roswell crash than a Mogul balloon. Skeptical Listers should >>take note. >Back here on planet Earth, Dave Vetterick just emailed me to let me know that a call to the staff member of the Delahunt letter revealed that the source of the Roswell information wasn't some government agency but the Roswell museum. So much for that Roswell revelation. Hello David and all: This may seem a little off the wall, but I wonder why we haven't heard from Truth-or-consequences, New Mexico. Formerly Hot Springs, NM, Truth-or-consequences, NM changed its whole name based on was re-amed because of a (then) popular TV show of the same name, Truth Or Consequences. The old game show host still makes annual appearances there, or so I'm told, but that is simply not enough. I could suggest another UFO crash, preferably with naked skinny space aliens, but that is getting old. Sooner or later, even George Noory will ask: "Why do they all crash in New Mexico? What's wrong with Montana, or South Dakota, or North Carolina?" Maybe its the strawberry flavored cotton candy. As a child I could hardly resist it, are space aliens any different? Maybe cotton candy gums up their ball bearings or fouls up something else. I have some decades-old maps of NM, which I treasure. I love maps and especially the old ones of the US southwest. All through the cold war, Hot Springs, NM was known as T-or-C, NM. I wonder how that appeared to Soviet eyes. A frightening name, non? Best Larry Hatch Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:08:35 -0300 Archived: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:35:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:44:47 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>>Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission ><snip> >>>5) Regarding the "crypto" room, I would like to know if Oberg >>>heard of such a room. >>Don't know. Had you Jim? ><snip> >>>It was also implied during the program that it was "mysterious" >>>why we did not go back to the Moon or why we stopped. It is in >>>no way mysterious. Going to the Moon was/is expensive. You need >>>a well defined business case. This does not exist. Thus it ends >>>up being performed at the whim of politicians for political >>>reasons. Once we had got there and once interest had waned (as >>>Ledger states in the program) there was _no_ reason to continue. >>I've no doubt of the political interference and the timidity of >>the average politician when faced with the albatross of inner >>city welfare problems and the "war' on poverty, etc. Also the >>Vietnam war was going on through the whole of the Apollo program >>that was eating up much of the American budget-never mind the >>ongoing "Cold War" The Apollo missions and the manned space >>program to the Moon ended two years before that war. War is >>apparently more important than space exploration. >>Someone made damn sure though that they didn't go back to the >>Moon in the near future. Like the Avro Arrow, the Saturn 5 >>rocket was scrapped and construction was discontinued. >Hi Everyone! >Below is a reply Jim Oberg sent this afternoon to me and James >Smith. Jim asked that I forward his comments to the UFO UpDates >list (his reply was edited and re-formatted for posting to this >List). This round about way of answering is a bit annoying, why not just send them direct to me? >Ledger appears unaware that the Saturn-V production run of 15 >flight vehicles was determined in the mid-1960's, long before >the first landing, and that production of new vehicles had shut >down about 1968. No I wasn't aware of the above, but that was an aside to the original thread. Still, why end production back in the mid 60s. Was the program budgeted for that many [18?] and they knew back then that they were going to abandon Moon missions? I see that some of the early Apollo missions [example Apollo 8] were launched using the Saturn IV. But the whole "Why did NASA quit the Moon program" is a red herring as are the LEM/LM*, two cameras on the rover and the Saturn V, squirrel tracks. *On Tom Hanks series From the Earth to the Moon that very point was alluded to when the actors, as engineers, discussed the new name change from the LEM to the LM. One of the "engineers" says words to the effect that "..it might be the Lunar Module now but I'll still call it the LEM. The acronym did stick but when it was discussed as a piece of hardward the anchors and astronauts called it the Lunar Module. >Ledger [said] "I did offer that Fendell was remotely operating >the video camera from Houston and that only a speed pan could >have picked up the "object" both forward and aft of the Rover." >It's even worse than Ledger thinks. Because of the time lag >between images in the MOCR and when pan commands could reach the >rover, it would have been physically IMPOSSIBLE for a remote >controller on Earth to 'follow' the motions of any moving object >on the moon, with any significant angular rate. Even the LM >liftoffs were not 'followed', they were visible because their >pre-determined angular motion was used to enter camera tilt >commands before any sign of motion on the screen ever appeared. I am fully aware of the "up and back" ~ 3 second lag time. I wasn't suggesting that Fendell was following anything. I said he might have done a speed pan*, perhaps in hopes of re-attaining the "object". This part wasn't rocket science, just a reaction. In the case of the LM lift-off Fendell was able to anticipate, knowing the time of lift-off and begin his tracking 1.5 seconds ahead. In the case of the proposed object his own natural response to stimuli lag time would have added another 1.5 seconds but if this thing wandered into the initial shot and then began to wander out-say camera right for example-then Fendell could have then have speed panned either camera left or right to re-attain the object. He would have already had the camera at the approximate elevation. Incidentally, the small network I worked for for 15 years did most of its live shooting using remotely operated cameras, which however were much more sophisticated than what Fendell had to work with. But I'm very familiar with their operation. *A speed pan using the remote technology of 1970-71-72 would not have been as effective, nor as fast or accurate as the remote units these days such as IPO, Vicon, from the 80s, 90, and dozens of newer machines that are now available. Fendell's pan. tilt, zoom control would have been much slower and much less robust. Apparently gears metal or nylon] would strip on that system. But it was the fore-runner of a technology that is most prevalent these days from studio to live action sports etc. >Ledger [said] "Whether the MOCR was ever evacuated at any time >during an EVA is moot." >Ledger conveniently wants everyone to forget when somebody he >wants to believe makes a statement that is contrary to every >other on-site witness as well as established policy. Oh nonsense. I don't believe anything [pre-telegraphing your "tired old saw" ] I'm asking questions. And what other onsite witnesses? BTW-did you actually ask Richard Nieber - remember he was outside the MOCR - if he knew Dayne Hatten? >Ledger [said] "And of course Houston would have cut the live >audio and video feeds to the networks." >Of course this tired old saw ('the lack of live broadcasts of >between images in the MOCR and when pan commands could reach the >rover, it would have been physically IMPOSSIBLE for a remote >controller on Earth to 'follow' the motions of any moving object >on the moon, with any significant angular rate. Even the LM >liftoffs were not 'followed', they were visible because their >pre-determined angular motion was used to enter camera tilt >commands before any sign of motion on the screen ever appeared. Eager believer... bah and baloney. I never offered that, "Of course this tired old saw ('the lack of live broadcasts of UFO sightings is proof there WERE live broadcasts but NASA interrupted them')" Jim, you know as well as I that this is BS. Of course they cut live feeds for many reasons other than the possibility of some glaring UFO. Go to the Apollo 13 communications, those that were available on-air to the public. Are you going to tell me that the entire communication between Houston and Apollo 13 were hanging out there for the public to hear? Pure and simple nonsense. I watched as much of that incident as possible - I was 24 years-old - and most of that time was taken up with anchormen filling time. The actual transcripts were not available until well after the event. What ham operators might have heard during that nail-biting event was not what the public was hearing. Suppose that there had been an accident while the astronauts were EVA on the Moon. Do you really believe that NASA would have let the feed continue downstreamm to the media. Not a chance. I see you are making use of the true believer-eager believer - as an attempt to win an argument. Go ahead if it makes you feel comfortable. I'm just scratching around trying to find out what, if anything, happened. >despite what every Apollo astronaut has said, what >every retired NASA flight controller has said (including the >PAOs who would have hit the switch - but make clear, never ever >had to), what every verifiable radio amateur who monitored >Apollo transmissions has said (not counting, of course, the >mythical ones whose names just "can't" be revealed), what every >lunar scientist has said and written, with overwhelming >unanimity. So many counterexamples of crew conversations of >initially anomalous sights exist, they also fill UFO books Stuff and nonsense. Gross exaggeration. > - at the same time that enthusiasts Geez..... >claim that such conversations would have been cut off. Talk >about simultaneously believing contradictory notions. >Ledger [said] "Additionally, there is a new thread on UpDates >concerning the experiences of a couple of lay engineers and >their stumbling across the library at the observatory and hi-rez >photos of the Lunar surface showing artifacts. Hatten knew >nothing of these but did confirm the location and stated that >while he was there the Library was at the main complex and that >the observatory was known to them as "The Haunted House" due to >it's remote location. He lived about 3/4s of a mile away from >it." >If Ledger is referring to the Lunar and Planetary Institute's >building on NASA Road 1 overlooking Clear Lake, directly >adjacent to the Manned Spacecraft Center (as it was known in >Apollo days), there's no 'observatory' there - more indications >of out-of-control tall-tale-tellings. The only domed telescope I >can recall from Apollo days - and I knew the astronomers who had >used it to watch moon-bound spacecraft - was on the roof of Bldg >16, right on the main site. I'm pretty sure no one mentioned a domed observatory/telescope.I mention it only because this just another story about NASA and UFOs and it's elsewhere on this list. BTW Jim is the place where Vito Saccheri said it was? Jim you wouldn't be on this and other lists sniffing around this UFO business unless you had some suspicion of there being some anomalous componant to it. You wouldn't be the first from NASA - Dayne Hatten aside. That's what I do, sniff around, getting sucked into areas that I'd rather not be because I'm on unstable ground. But what's wrong with asking the questions? Who knows what will jar loose? But if I'm buying into military, commercial and private pilot sightings, I can't let the biggest aerospace conglomerate in the world get away without scrutiny. Since you worked there, it probably bugs you too. Don Ledger Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:40:51 EDT Archived: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:36:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:40:26 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:36:06 EDT >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> >>>To: <ufopdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:12:06 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>Witness statement: >>>I went into the Auditorium at JSC with my wife in 1994, saw a >>>Lunar Rover in the display, right next to the Lunar Excursion >>>Module, commonly called the LEM, and the damned thing had two >>>cameras on it. One on the front and one on the back. I may have >>>been wrong on the actual locations, but the damned thing had two >>>cameras. >>>I don't owe anyone an apology for what I originally wrote! >>Yeah you do. You owe everyone an apology for your fable. NASA >>renamed the "Lunar Excursion Module" (LEM) to the simple LM >>(Lunar Module) in 1967 -- before there ever was even a first >>Apollo lunar landing. >>Therefore you could not have seen a "LEM" "commonly called" >>that, at NASA Johnson Space Center in 1994 "right next" to the >>Lunar Rover, 27 years after NASA had renamed LEM's to LM's AND >>claim it was "commonly called the LEM." Does NASA supposedly not >>know its own Apollo mission terminology after 27 years?? Does >>NASA need a lecture from a "fireman" on the name of the Lunar >>Module and how NASA has apparently not called it by the name it >>is "commonly called" and has used the wrong name for 27 years?? >>I can't even imagine where in 1994 (or 2005) you could have >>dredged up the "LEM" name from the mid-60's in the first place >>for a supposed honest "confusion" if it was that. How do you >>"honestly confuse" something that has not existed or been used >>since a planning stage in the mid-60's with the name "LM" that >>was actually used? >Mr. Sparks, the LM vs LEM issue is a little picky. The Kennedy >Space Center gift shop sells a "Lunar Excursion Module" >today(!): That's not official NASA Houston space display but a private gift shop. http://www.thespaceshop.com/luexmowist.html >If the model he saw was a manufacturer's prototype or model then >it would correctly carry the LEM designation. Why would NASA Houston display a "prototype" LEM "right next" to a full-fledge Lunar Rover instead of the real-thing LM?? The "fireman" did not describe a whole series of LEM and LM displays. >If the curator was not up-to-date in his display or had >inadequate knowledge, he might have the wrong designation (and >this DOES occur at NASA and elsewhere). You haven't shown such a slipup by NASA, not a single example! >Here's one at the Virginia Air& Space Center: That is not NASA! You had to search far and wide just to come up with a few examples on the Internet in 2005. Yet it was in 1994 that the "fireman" allegedly saw a "LEM" at NASA Houston (Johnson Space Center) when there was no widespread Internet or Web. http://www.vasc.org/exhibits/spacecraft/lems.html >On display at the Museum of Discovery & Science in Fort >Lauderdale, Florida.(nicely labelled "Lunar Excursion Module"): Again, _not_ NASA which knows its own basic space history. Again, you found just a few examples in 2005, not in 1994 when the alleged sighting of a "LEM" on purportedly official display at NASA Houston allegedly occurred. I take this as an indicator of hoax. http://www.hightechscience.org/apollo_lunar_module_model.htm Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:32:39 -0500 Archived: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:37:37 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >By Aaron Sakulich >Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents >of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 >September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. >They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did >they know that they would be returning to terror! <snip> >This is one of the most well known and most historically >important cases of alien abduction of all time, mainly because >it's all baloney. However, it was well televised baloney, and >that brought UFO abductions, and the little gray men that the >Hills reported seeing, into the mainstream of popular culture. <snip> >... did the publicity from >this case create other abductions in the same way that this case >was created from TV shows and books that Betty Hill had read? >I'm no statistician, but even I can see that the second option >is the one that makes the most sense. We like Aaron Sakulich... he's imaginative and we know where he stands. And it does seem that the Hill incident inspired other abduction reports, or it was the first of some real events where human beings have been taken aboard alien craft and "medically" examined. Mr. Sakulich would differ with the latter of the two statements above, as would most persons outside the UFO community. But the fact is, and it is a fact, something did happen to the Hills and that something was out of the ordinary. As to what the Hills actually experienced is arguable certainly. And the Hill's "abduction" can't be resolved now, just as it was not resolved shortly after it happened. What the Hill incident does do, however, is offer suggestions for how present-day tales or recollections of UFO abductions might better be investigated. The salient elements of UFO abductions can be put to rigorous scrutiny by experts in psychiatry, forensics, and the details of other abduction accounts over the years since the Hill story became notorious. Lie detection (not all by itself of course), sodium pentathol, and the simple expedient of gathering together of detritus, no matter how microscopic, from an abductee's point of departure would go a long way in determining what happened to them - what really happened. Again, like Roswell, the MJ-12 documents, and a few other UFO episodes, the Hill scenario has elements which can't be, and never have been, debunked entirely. That's why all of the above remain in play. They are not open and shut. And Mr. Sakulich's take is just one in a number of answerable possibilities for the Hill account. Rich Reynolds Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 17 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 Archived: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:38:19 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >By Aaron Sakulich >Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents >of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 >September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. >They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did >they know that they would be returning to terror! >As they drove, they noticed a light moving erratically in the >sky and, after a short time, it began to trail the car. Barney >pulled over and got out his binoculars to get a better look, >whereupon he discovered it was as hip of some sort, and he could >make out human-like shapes moving behind a row of portholes. He >kept repeating "I don't believe it!" to himself, though his >wife, in the car and without binoculars, didn't know what he was >talking about at the time. >As the craft grew closer, Barney cried out something along the >lines of "They're gonna get us!" He hopped in the car and sped >off "at breakneck speed." The next thing the couple knew, it was >2 hours later and they were only a short distance away from >where they'd seen the craft, without memories. In the coming >weeks, they would begin experiencing nightmares of being >abducted and physically "examined" by aliens, undergo intense >hypnotic therapy, and become the most famous UFO-related >celebrities of the modern era. >This is one of the most well known and most historically >important cases of alien abduction of all time, mainly because >t's all baloney. However, it was well televised baloney, and >that brought UFO abductions, and the little gray men that the >Hills reported seeing, into the mainstream of popular culture. >What actually happened to the Hills that night? Hell if I know. >But I know what didn't happen: They were not, absolutely not, >kidnapped by space aliens. Hmmmm. Did they see a UFO? Barney looked through his binoculars and saw something that scared him. Was that baloney too? >The reason I say this is based on a >number of things. After the abduction, there's a period of >"amnesia" where the abductee remembers nothing out of the >ordinary. Then, after having some nightmares or "partially >recovered memories," the abductee undergoes months of intense >hypnotherapy, at the end of which they come to realize they >really were kidnapped by space aliens. This is exactly how it >happened in the Hill case: They never actually got around to t>elling the authoritative "complete" version of the story until >years after the incident happened. >What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. Huh? Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? Answer - none. Therefore it would have been difficult if not impossible for Betty to spend all her time reading books on UFO abductions. Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 17 Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700 Archived: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:39:02 -0500 Subject: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' Hello All, I waited many months for the opportunity to provide new evidence on the Mexican Air Force UFO case from march 05, 2004. I tried hard to perform by myself the experiment of flying closer to the Cantarell oil field as to recreate the C26A flight. The full cost for that flight was about US $2,500 and I couldn't spend that much. My theory, at least for me, is finally confirmed and the Mexican Air Force UFO case of march 05, 2004 is closed. In april 14, 2005 I was lucky enough to record a video that shows the Cantarell oil flames group that matches the same lights as those in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video regardless that it was recorded in a different route, altitude and angle of view. I would like to emphasize again that I am not a debunker. I am an independent UFO investigator since 1963. I truly believe that some UFO's are of alien origin and also do believe that extraterrestrial intelligence exists in the vast universe. I have been attacked by some members, I was humiliated and defamed in national and international TV and absurdly exposed as a hoaxer by a real hoaxer who accused me of not being loyal to my own country because I answered to a question here in the UFO UpDates list regarding the Mexican Air Force which I still sustain is in a very bad condition. _It�s Hard to Block the Sun with Your Finger_. I understand those people with lack of critical thinking who instead of attacking and criticizing should provide useful evidences and commentaries. Anyway I would like to thank them hardly for their nice thoughts and interest. I would like to thank specially all those nice members who supported my oil well theory and motivated me to continue working on this interesting case until today. Conclusion: There is enough evidence and data for me to conclude that the Mexican Air Force FLIR video lights are not UFO's. April 14, 2005 video showing the same lights _23MB_. http://www.alcione.org/FAM/cantarell_experiment_04_14_05.wmv Images from video of April 14, 2005. http://www.alcione.org/FAM/APR_14_05 References: My first post about the oil well theory, may 26 2004. UFOs Or Simply Oil Well Flames? http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/may/m27-011.shtml There is still a controversy about how and why the FLIR's video lights filmed by Mexican Air Force C26A crew on march 05, 2004 seem to be at the same altitude. http://www.alcione.org/ARTIF_HORIZON/index.html Video showing the horizon at same flight level. http://www.alcione.org/ARTIF_HORIZON/OCT_10_04.MPG March 05, 2004 Mexican Air Force C26A FLIR's video on board communications transcription showing Radar malfunctions and crew behavior. http://www.alcione.org/CAMPECHE/ Simple experiment of the video optical illusion. http://www.alcione.org/FAM/luces_nubes_exp.wmv First video showing same FLIR lights Oct. 20, 2004. http://www.alcione.org/FAM/MOV01828.MPG Videos recorded on September 3rd and 4th, 2004. Videos recorded on October 19th 2004. http://www.alcione.org/CANTARELL_SEP_2004/ NARCAP Statement on Mexican FLIR case of March 2004. NARCAP applauds Captain Franz for his attention to detail as well as his objectivity. http://www.narcap.org/news%20page/newspage.htm Mexican Air Force FLIR lights are oil well flames. Best regards to all, Capt. Alejandro Franz director.nul www.alcione.org (non-profit) Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:06:14 -0300 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:44:19 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:32:39 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >>Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >>http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >>UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>By Aaron Sakulich >>Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >>The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did they know that they would be returning to terror! ><snip> >>This is one of the most well known and most historically >>important cases of alien abduction of all time, mainly because >>it's all baloney. However, it was well televised baloney, and >>that brought UFO abductions, and the little gray men that the >>Hills reported seeing, into the mainstream of popular culture. ><snip> >>... did the publicity from this case create other abductions >>in the same way that this case was created from TV shows and >>books that Betty Hill had read? I'm no statistician, but even I >>can see that the second option is the one that makes the most >>sense. >We like Aaron Sakulich... he's imaginative and we know where >he stands. I can understand and sympathize with your feeling here, Rich. A simple-minded, immature, poorly researched piece such as Sakulich's is very easy to understand, easily readable. And why not? No detail, facts or anything to tax the mind. It's well written if you are 4 or 5 year old reader. I imagine he has quite a following with the primary school crowd. Don Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Faded Discs New Addition - 'Swamp Gas' From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:08:50 -0600 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:52:05 -0500 Subject: Faded Discs New Addition - 'Swamp Gas' Greetings to the Listarians, Volume 11 in the MP3 Audio History of Ufology Series is now available. Titled, Swamp Gas, it is the history of the 1966 Michigan Flap controversy and Dr. J. Allen Hynek's passing gas remark to the media. The disc contains nine recordings with a total running time of 5.5+ hours. Please visit my website for ordering instructions at: www.fadeddiscs.com (Ufology can't be dead...I've got several thousand recordings left to restore! AAArrgghh!) Thank You, Wendy Connors Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Faded Discs New Addition - Shaver & Allende From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:14:45 -0600 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:40:49 -0500 Subject: Faded Discs New Addition - Shaver & Allende Greetings to the Listarians, Volume 12 in the MP3 Audio History of Ufology series is now available. 'Shaver & Allende Mysteries: Deros, PX And The Death Of Morris K. Jessup', contains 8 recordings with a total running time of 7 hours and 43 minutes. This compilation presents the only known recorded interview of Morris K. Jessup, as well as three recordings of Carlos M. Allende (Carl M. Allen). Also in the compilation is a Long John Nebel show featuring both Richard Shaver and Ray Palmer. Please visit my website for ordering instructions at: www.fadeddiscs.com Thank You, Wendy Connors Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:15:38 -0500 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:41:44 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >>Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >>UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>By Aaron Sakulich >>Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >>This is one of the most well known and most historically >>important cases of alien abduction of all time, mainly because >>t's all baloney. However, it was well televised baloney, and >>that brought UFO abductions, and the little gray men that the >>Hills reported seeing, into the mainstream of popular culture. >>What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >>discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >>Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >>all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >>enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. >Huh? >Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? >Answer - none. >Therefore it would have been difficult if not impossible for >Betty to spend all her time reading books on UFO abductions. >Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? I vote for the latter. I don't even know why we're paying attention to this moron. Jerry Clark Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:42:25 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >>Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >>http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >>UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>By Aaron Sakulich >>Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >>The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents >>of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 >>September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. >>They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did >>they know that they would be returning to terror! <snip> >>What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >>discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >>Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >>all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >>enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. >Huh? >Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? >Answer - none. >Therefore it would have been difficult if not impossible for >Betty to spend all her time reading books on UFO abductions. >Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? I think it's a lot of both. He uses the same old tired debunking tricks with absolutely no real research. Terry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:48:53 -0300 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:43:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> To: <ars27.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:48:53 -0300 Subject: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case Mr. Sakulich: May I suggest you read Interrupted Journey by John Fuller instead of using 2nd, third and 4th hand sources? Your article is the real baloney. As a nuclear physicist who met Betty and Barney Hill,(Betty many times)and John Fuller, having served as a consultant to Universal Studios on The UFO Incident, as the first person to publish about the Star Map work of Marjorie Fish, having talked to Dr. Simon, and reviewed John Fuller's papers at Boston University, it is clear you have written fiction. I have worked with many engineers over my years in industry. I have never seen one get his facts so confused. Try reading the book instead of letting your bias and ignorance get in the way of the facts. There were no books about alien abductions in 1961 incidentally. Stanton T. Friedman www.stantonfriedman.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:39:22 -0400 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:43:47 -0500 Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:47:23 -0400 >Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:29:16 -0400 >>Subject: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>I'm just going to put this out there because I think I have to. >>However, I will not debate the value or validity of the >>material. I firmly believe this is _strong_ evidence for UFOs >>being _intelligently_ guided and makes a strong case for the >>reality the abductees have testifying about for decades. >>See for yourself: >>http://www.virtuallystrange.com/aic/formation.html >>Ladies and gents, you are cordially invited to make of this what >>you will. As I said, I consider it compelling evidence. I am >>dead certain others will consider it the product of a fevered >>imagination. Hi Bruce, You wrote: >Interesting. Yeah, I thought so too or I never would have posted it. Thank you for taking a look at it. It's been largely ignored by everyone else. I showed it to a few trusted associates and although, (like myself) they don't know what to make of it, they agree that it is a most intriguing correlation and 'possibly' important. >You showed only one frame. How does this arrangement change with >time or does it stay constant? The Portuguese website only has 20 to 60 second video clips posted. So it's impossible to tell 'how' the formation was arrives at, or what configuration (if any) it assumed afterwards. I have been in contact with Jaime Maussan and Santiago Yturria. I requested a copy of as much of the 'cluster/fleet' footage as they can send me. I need to review this clip in particular very carefully, (Jaime informs me it is from a video that was recorded in 1998,) for the express purpose of seeing how the 'objects' arrived at the formation, how long the position in the sky may have remained static, and what happened afterwards. Of course the video clip may not be long enough to allow any such determinations to be made. We'll see. I have recruited some help. I want to look at all of the recorded material to see if there are any other examples of these 'formations' that resemble the glyphs/letters that myself and several other abductees reproduced for Budd. Now, more than ever I wish Stuart Apelle had conducted and completed the study he was supposed to facilitate on the 'writing' samples that Budd submitted for analysis. Greg Sandow and myself worked hard to convince Budd to part with that material so it could be looked at by independent experts. I believe Stuart was going to submit copies to several psychologists, language experts/philologists, and anyone else he could round up at Cornell to participate. Never happened. JUFOS was having financial problems and the study fell through the cracks. I have no idea where the material is or what if anything is being done with it. When I receive the Mexican videos from Jaime I will go over them with a fine tooth comb. If I turn up any more of these, I'll get back to you privately. Posting them to the List for peer review and feedback seems to be a waste of time and an exercise in futility. For example, Nick Balaskas, one of the few genuine academics on the List sees only birds! (?) Nobody else has any comment or seems to know what to make of it. Again, I appreciate your taking the time to have a look-see. If anything else comes up, I'll zap you a line. Peace, John Velez Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Aliens & Child Abduction From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:04:51 -0400 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:45:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Aliens & Child Abduction >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 05:58:05 -0500 >Subject: Aliens & Child Abduction Don't worry everybody, I'm not "back." This just happens to be one of two posts that seriously pissed me off. Alfred wrote: >Wow! Check this out... does this cross a line? >If so, what line does it cross? >http://aliensandchildren.org/ Alfred, this does much more than merely "cross a line". Speaking as the father of two (now adult) children and the grandfather of four little guys, what this thoughtless, self-serving trilobite is doing with these children is the absolute height of irresponsibility and to my way of thinking borders on criminal. Those poor kids. And where the Hell are the parents in all of this? I'd like to take one of those 'thought blocking' Bowler hats he's making those kids wear to school and stick it where the Sun don't shine. You know, right next to where he keeps his brain. BTW, I'd love to know how this guy determined that these tin-foil hats he is trying to market at the expense of these children's future well-being and socialization, actually block thoughts. Maybe it's the 'silence' he hears when he listens for a thought in his own head when he's wearing one himself. Unbelievable. How completely and utterly irresponsible. John Velez Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Bizarre Magazine From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:33:55 +0100 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:45:47 -0500 Subject: Bizarre Magazine The interview I did for the current issue of Bizarre Magazine has now been made available online. They've muddled some of the material. An investigation I carried out into a 1993 UFO sighting involving 2 military bases has been written up as if it related to the 1980 Bentwaters case. And a throwaway comment about some of the bizarre contactee cases from the Fifties is a little out of context. Nonetheless, I've already done a couple of radio interviews simply because somebody from the stations concerned read the magazine, so it all helps bring ufology to a wider audience. Here's a to the interview: http://www.bizarremag.com/real_people.php?id=1694 Best wishes, Nick Pope Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 'UFO' Offers An Amazing Musical Flight From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:55:20 -0500 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:46:57 -0500 Subject: 'UFO' Offers An Amazing Musical Flight Has anyone on the List heard this piece yet? As a professional musician and an amateur ufologist it intrigues me but I won't be able to attend. ----- Source: Star-Telegram http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/entertainment/11412120.htm Composer Michael Daugherty broke lots of rules to come up with a surprisingly lovable symphonic work in UFO, the opening work in the Fort Worth Symphony's concert at Bass Hall on Friday night. Daugherty, a native of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and a graduate of the University of North Texas, continues to grow in fame on the national and international new music scene, via this and other whimsically titled large-scale works; his inspirations have included icons of American popular culture such as Jackie Onassis, J. Edgar Hoover, Elvis and Superman. UFO, actually a concerto for percussion in orchestra, was commissioned by the renowned percussionist Evelyn Glennie and has become one of the most frequently performed of all contemporary works in its alternate version for wind ensemble. Glennie's Scottish compatriot Colin Currie, the soloist for this concert, moved lithely through this amazing 24-minute musical journey, beginning with the first movement, "Unidentified," in which his resources included a xylophone and what he described, with a not-quite-straight face, as debris from UFOs. This brief and brilliant prologue movement led to the mellow richness of the second movement, "Flying," which, after a plush opening, builds to heroic neoromanticism and a brilliant cadenza. The athleticism of the final movement, "Objects," crowned an exhilarating listening experience; within solid traditional structures, Daugherty boldly and convincingly exploits a brave array of unusual sounds within a harmonic language that swings from a very loose tonality to a skillful chromaticism. Soloist Currie moved lithely, athletically and expressively through the menagerie of percussion instruments, while the orchestra and conductor Miguel Harth-Bedoya provided a fine backdrop. After intermission, Harth-Bedoya and the orchestra turned to Dvorak's Ninth Symphony ("From the New World"), reminding the audience why this is one of the most beloved and frequently performed of all symphonic works. Harth-Bedoya revealed the splendor of Dvorak's orchestral colors; in spite of a rough opening, the venerable Largo captivated with surprising, fresh intensity. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:08:08 -0500 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:47:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700 >Subject: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >Hello All, >I waited many months for the opportunity to provide new evidence >on the Mexican Air Force UFO case from march 05, 2004. I tried >hard to perform by myself the experiment of flying closer to the >Cantarell oil field as to recreate the C26A flight. The full >cost for that flight was about US $2,500 and I couldn't spend >that much. >My theory, at least for me, is finally confirmed and the Mexican >Air Force UFO case of march 05, 2004 is closed. In april 14, >2005 I was lucky enough to record a video that shows the >Cantarell oil flames group that matches the same lights as those >in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video regardless that it was >recorded in a different route, altitude and angle of view. >I would like to emphasize again that I am not a debunker. I am >an independent UFO investigator since 1963. I truly believe that >some UFO's are of alien origin and also do believe that >extraterrestrial intelligence exists in the vast universe. <snip> I agree with you about the FLIR footage. I saw your videos and indeed see the matches between the oil well flares and the string of 11 objects as well as the "Twins" from the FLIR video. To me they are conclusive. I was as taken-aback as everyone else when I saw the original video and I admit it was hard for me to believe that this was anything but a genuine UFO/UAP event. Your video convinced me otherwise. Good job. Wasn't there also a ground radar event that has yet to be explained? This could have been a coincidental event. Terry Groff Field Investigator/Webmaster Dallas-Fort Worth MUFON http://mufondfw.com http://mufondfw.terrygroff.com http://mufondfw.blogspot.com Webmaster UFO TOOLS http://ufotools.terrygroff.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Secrecy News -- 04/18/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:25:12 -0400 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:48:39 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/18/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 36 April 18, 2005 ** NATIONAL ACADEMY ON NUCLEAR TRANSPARENCY ** PRESIDENT BUSH ON OPENNESS, FOIA ** LEVIN: IRAQ-AL QAEDA LINK WAS EXAGGERATED ** DOD JOINT ELECTRONIC LIBRARY BACK ONLINE ** NEW FRUS VOLUME ON DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, CUBA ** THE COSTS OF SECRECY NATIONAL ACADEMY ON NUCLEAR TRANSPARENCY Greater transparency could contribute to verifiable reductions in nuclear stockpiles and could help reduce the threat of nuclear proliferation, the National Academy of Sciences reported today. "We believe that increasing the categories of items subject to transparency and monitoring would be valuable -- and may ultimately be essential -- as the United States and the world attempt to address the urgent and interrelated goals of reducing the dangers from existing nuclear arsenals, minimizing the spread of nuclear weaponry to additional states, and preventing the acquisition of nuclear weapons by terrorists," the new Academy study stated. The authors acknowledged that "there are some tensions between sharing information about nuclear ... stockpiles and maintaining the security of those stockpiles." Furthermore, there are limits to what any system of monitoring and transparency can achieve and therefore "a degree of uncertainty is inescapable." However, "cooperative use of available and foreseeable technologies can substantially alleviate these tensions" to provide a net enhancement of security. See "Monitoring Nuclear Weapons and Nuclear-Explosive Materials: An Assessment of Methods and Capabilities," Committee on International Security and Arms Control, 2005: http://www.nap.edu/books/0309095972/html A related study from the Frankfurt Peace Research Institute is "Looking for a Demarcation between Nuclear Transparency and Nuclear Secrecy" by Dr. Annette Schaper, PRIF Reports No. 68, Frankfurt am Main, 2004: http://www.hsfk.de/downloads/PRIF-68.pdf Speaking of nuclear transparency, the Department of Energy has not yet complied with an administrative order last month to release portions of a historical study of the production of highly enriched uranium (Secrecy News, 03/14/05). PRESIDENT BUSH ON OPENNESS, FOIA "I believe in open government," President Bush told the American Society of Newspaper Editors last week. "I've always believed in open government." The President responded to questions about public access to government information, freedom of information policy including pending legislation to strengthen the FOIA, and related issues. See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/04/wh041405.html He pointed to the recent report of the Silberman-Robb WMD Commission, ninety percent of which was declassified, as an openness success story. That report, he said, is "an example... of how I hope that we're becoming balanced between that which the public ought to know and that which, if we were to expose, would jeopardize our capacity to do our job, which is to defend America." Others dispute that assessment. The Center for Arms Control and Nonproliferation filed a lawsuit this month arguing that the WMD Commission was and remains out of compliance with the disclosure requirements of the Federal Advisory Committee Act (noted by Dan Froomkin in the Washington Post White House Briefing). See the Center's April 6 complaint here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/wmdfaca.pdf Members of the WMD Commission had to threaten mass resignations repeatedly in order to gain cooperation from intelligence agencies, United Press International reported. See "WMD panel threatened resignations" by Shaun Waterman, April 15: http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050415-022457-1565r.htm See also "Bush Says His Privacy Must Be Protected" by Deb Riechmann, Associated Press, April 15: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55927- 2005Apr15.html LEVIN: IRAQ-AL QAEDA LINK WAS EXAGGERATED Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) last week released newly declassified documents to support his contention that the Bush Administration exaggerated the relationship between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Al Qaeda to build the case for war against Iraq. "These documents are additional compelling evidence that the Intelligence Community did not believe there was a cooperative relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda, despite public comments by the highest ranking officials in our government to the contrary," Levin said. See "Levin Releases Newly Declassified Intelligence Documents on Iraq-al Qaeda Relationship," April 15: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_cr/levin041505.html A congressional investigation into possible misuse and misrepresentation of intelligence by the Bush Administration prior to the Iraq war, promised last year, will be completed, said Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Sen. Pat Roberts last week on NBC Meet the Press. DOD JOINT ELECTRONIC LIBRARY BACK ONLINE After having been taken offline for several days (Secrecy News, 04/08/05), the Department of Defense Joint Electronic Library web site was restored late last week, minus a number of documents. Specifically, the draft publications that apparently triggered the website suspension are no longer available on the site, though they can still be found on cryptome.org and elsewhere. The JEL web site is here: http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/ NEW FRUS VOLUME ON DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, CUBA The latest volume of the official Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS) series provides a documentary history of U.S. policy towards the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Haiti and Guyana during the politically turbulent years of the Johnson Administration. Among other things, the new FRUS volume includes candid discussions of U.S. covert action against Cuba and other targets in the mid-1960s. A number of details are reported for the first time, including previously classified budget items such as the $2.08 million that was approved for covert action against Guyana between 1962 and 1968. The major part of the volume concerns the Dominican Republic, where the U.S. Marines were deployed in 1965 after the fall of the Trujillo dictatorship. The full text of the new FRUS volume, released April 15, may be found here: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/xxxii/ THE COSTS OF SECRECY Indiscriminate secrecy can undermine security instead of enhancing it, the Washington Post argued in its lead editorial today, and the government does a poor job of distinguishing between what needs to be protected and what doesn't. By way of example, the Post cited the refusal of the Central Intelligence Agency to disclose its 1963 budget. Over the objections of the CIA and the Justice Department, a federal court had to issue an order to compel the release of this antiquated information (Secrecy News, 04/05/05). "Somehow, a more rational approach to secrecy must take hold," the Post opined. See "The Costs of Secrecy," The Washington Post (editorial), April 18: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61586-2005Apr17.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web:www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood.nul voice: (202) 454-4691 Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 18 Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:50:53 -0300 Archived: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:49:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:14:00 -0700 >Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:48:14 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>>From: A.J. Gevaerd <Brazilian UFO Magazine <ufo2005.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:06:28 -0300 >>>Subject: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>>Ashtar Sheran -- Is there such an alien or is he only a >>>fantasy of creative minds? >>>A comprehensive sociologic, historic and scientific study of >>>its origin and interaction with mankind, as reported by people >>>over the last decades. >>>By Rogerio Chola [rogerio.chola.nul] and Laura Elias >>>[laura.elias.nul] >>>Brazilian UFO Magazine - Special Edition 33, April 2005 >>Those interested in Ashtar should read about my experience at: >>http://brumac.8k.com/ashtar.html >An interesting article. Nobody from Ashtar Command will keep me >from my coffee or whatever though [burp]. >I unsubscribed my regular .nul address from the Brazilian >magazine, but promotions still come in to my >larry.nul >address. >Hopefully, A.J. Gevaerd can help remove me from the list of >Ashtar (and similar) mailings. Simply I just want to remove all >addresses of the form xxxxx.nul I am the only >recipient. Hello Larry. I will remove you from the list. Any significant info will be published on the site, in both Portuguese and English. A. J. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:14:00 -0700 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:17:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:48:14 -0400 >Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>From: A.J. Gevaerd <Brazilian UFO Magazine <ufo2005.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:06:28 -0300 >>Subject: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>Ashtar Sheran -- Is there such an alien or is he only a >>fantasy of creative minds? >>A comprehensive sociologic, historic and scientific study of its origin and interaction with mankind, as reported by people over the last decades. >>By Rogerio Chola [rogerio.chola.nul] and Laura Elias >>[laura.elias.nul] >>Brazilian UFO Magazine - Special Edition 33, April 2005 >Those interested in Ashtar should read about my experience at: >http://brumac.8k.com/ashtar.html Hello Bruce: An interesting article. Nobody from Ashtar Command will keep me from my coffee or whatever though [burp]. I unsubscribed my regular .nul address from the Brazilian magazine, but promotions still come in to my larry.nul address. Hopefully, A.J. Gevaerd can help remove me from the list of Ashtar (and similar) mailings. Simply I just want to remove all addresses of the form xxxxx.nul I am the only recipient. Best wishes Larry Hatch Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:01:07 -0700 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:19:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:00:12 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #16 - 2005 <snip> >>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> <snip> >>>Did a Congressman Find Data Confirming Roswell Crash? > >>>Brian Vike, Director, HBCC UFO Research on March 23, 2005 has >>>released a letter that was written to a Mr. Robert F. Brown, a >>>fellow who explained to me that he was persistent in his pursuit >>>of information through different government agencies on a >>>sighting event, which he witnessed in late 1949 or early 1950 <snip> >>Of course the reason they are still analyzing the Roswell debris >>is because it was from a Project Mogul top secret balloon, which >>was made of such top, top, top secret rubber, tinfoil, balsa >>wood, Scotch tape, etc., that they still can't figure it out. >>But back on planet Earth, Congressman Delahunt's office has just >>dropped an absolutely _huge_ hint that there is much more to the >>Roswell crash than a Mogul balloon. Skeptical Listers should >>take note. >Back here on planet Earth, Dave Vetterick just emailed me to let me know that a call to the staff member of the Delahunt letter revealed that the source of the Roswell information wasn't some government agency but the Roswell museum. So much for that Roswell revelation. Hello David and all: This may seem a little off the wall, but I wonder why we haven't heard from Truth-or-consequences, New Mexico. Formerly Hot Springs, NM, Truth-or-consequences, NM changed its whole name based on was re-amed because of a (then) popular TV show of the same name, Truth Or Consequences. The old game show host still makes annual appearances there, or so I'm told, but that is simply not enough. I could suggest another UFO crash, preferably with naked skinny space aliens, but that is getting old. Sooner or later, even George Noory will ask: "Why do they all crash in New Mexico? What's wrong with Montana, or South Dakota, or North Carolina?" Maybe its the strawberry flavored cotton candy. As a child I could hardly resist it, are space aliens any different? Maybe cotton candy gums up their ball bearings or fouls up something else. I have some decades-old maps of NM, which I treasure. I love maps and especially the old ones of the US southwest. All through the cold war, Hot Springs, NM was known as T-or-C, NM. I wonder how that appeared to Soviet eyes. A frightening name, non? Best Larry Hatch Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Imaginary Traumas From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:59:39 EDT Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:20:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:30:31 +0200 >Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:54:45 EDT >>Subject: Re: Imaginary Traumas ><snip> >>So, you have been offered the statistics, and you have been >>offered the definitions. I have supplied, as well, the sources >>for those statistics and that information. So, do you reject the >>idea that sleep paralysis might explain some cases of alien >>abduction? Or are you willing to admit that more research needs >>to be done? >Kevin, >I am willing to admit that a few alleged cases of abduction are >just cases of sleep paralysis. But your finding that half of >your sample described symptoms like that does not prove that >they all suffered from just that. This would be jumping to a >fast conclusion, dumping the rest of their stories. It is just >not enough to say : "it looks like that, so it is just that and >nothing else". I have read your book, after those of many other >researchers, on abductions. I have met with some of them : Budd >Hopkins, John Mack, David Jacobs, Constance Clear, Yvonne Smith, >and others. I have appreciated their quality, and, to tell you >my opinion, I find your approach very reductive of this big, >worrying problem of abductions. Gildais, I said that in our research we discovered that about half the people reported an initial episode that mimicked sleep paralysis. I never meant to imply that all those cases could be solved in that way. I was suggesting that sleep paralysis was a viable alternative and that the numbers were significant. KRandle Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:14:51 -0400 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:21:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700 >Subject: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >I waited many months for the opportunity to provide new evidence >on the Mexican Air Force UFO case from march 05, 2004. I tried >hard to perform by myself the experiment of flying closer to the >Cantarell oil field as to recreate the C26A flight. The full >cost for that flight was about US $2,500 and I couldn't spend >that much. Mr. Franz, All, There is something sad about the desperation with whch Mr. Franz wants this case to 'go away' and to be "closed." But his declaring it "closed" does not make it so. Not by a long-shot. It makes me wonder what it is that he fears so very much about it all. Mr. Franz writes: >My theory, at least for me, is finally confirmed and the Mexican >Air Force UFO case of march 05, 2004 is closed. In april 14, >2005 I was lucky enough to record a video that shows the >Cantarell oil flames group that matches the same lights as those >in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video regardless that it was >recorded in a different route, altitude and angle of view. What do you mean "regardless that your recording was made on a different route, altitude and angle of view?" Either you "replicated" the Mexican military flight precisely or you did not. If you did not, then I'd like to ask you, does the word 'irrelevant' hold any meaning for you? Mr. Franz, the day you can come on this List or anywhere else and post your infra-red recording of the Mexican oil wells, ie; infrared images that you recorded while flying the _same_ route, at the same speed, altitude and relative weather conditions as the Mexican military flight, and your infra-red recording of oil-well burn-off fires corresponds perfectly to the military FLIR recording, you will have convinced me and the world that the FLIR recording was only of common oil-well fires. Until then, it is _not_ "case closed". Regardless of how badly or desperately you may want that to be the case. Cases don't get "closed" because someone comes along and simply declares it closed. And no, 'close' does not count. Why do you think Bruce Maccabee has been trying to get the military to replicate the flight using the same plane and equipment, flying the same route at the same altitude and if possible, under similar weather conditions. _That's_ the "right way" to do it. So I'm sorry Mr Franz. No cigar, no good, not even close! Oh, and more importantly, nothing, including this case is "closed". But please feel free to come back when you have something relevant to report. I for one look forward to seeing what new inventions you have created in terms of explaining away this case. Case closed? I don't think so. Sincerely, John Velez Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:03:04 -0700 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:31:31 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >>Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >>http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >>UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>By Aaron Sakulich Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 <snip> >>What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >>discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >>Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >>all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >>enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. >Huh? >Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? >Answer - none. >Therefore it would have been difficult if not impossible for >Betty to spend all her time reading books on UFO abductions. >Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? Hi Bruce: Correct me if I'm wrong. My recollection was that Betty Hill didn't get into all that cult and paranormal stuff until well after the events of 1961. Sakulich would have us believe that the time line is reversed, that her cult interests (and abductions readings chuckle!) preceded and maybe inspired the New Hampshire incident. Am I wrong here? I thought Betty got into the whacko stuff years later, as the abduction itself became old news. If somebody is going to pop in and take a pot-shot, they really need to do a little homework first. That's much of the difference between an honest skeptic and the likes of Sakulich and so many others trying to make themselves a name or beat a deadline. - Larry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 18:54:37 EDT Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:33:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:08:35 -0300 >Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:44:47 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:01:25 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission >>>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>>>Subject: Moon UFO On Lunar TV Transmission <snip> >But the whole "Why did NASA quit the Moon program" is a red >herring as are the LEM/LM*, two cameras on the rover and the >Saturn V, squirrel tracks. >*On Tom Hanks series From the Earth to the Moon that very point >was alluded to when the actors, as engineers, discussed the new >name change from the LEM to the LM. One of the "engineers" says >words to the effect that "..it might be the Lunar Module now but >I'll still call it the LEM. The acronym did stick but when it >was discussed as a piece of hardward the anchors and astronauts >called it the Lunar Module. The point wasn't whether some space buff might know the obscure old name "LEM" from 1967 when it was officially changed to "LM" but whether NASA as of 1994 would put up an official display with the old name, as if NASA doesn't know its own terminology for the greatest space accomplishment in history, the Apollo moon landings. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:00:55 -0400 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:34:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:14:00 -0700 >Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:48:14 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>>From: A.J. Gevaerd <Brazilian UFO Magazine <ufo2005.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:06:28 -0300 >>>Subject: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>>Ashtar Sheran -- Is there such an alien or is he only a >>>fantasy of creative minds? <snip> >>Those interested in Ashtar should read about my experience at: >>http://brumac.8k.com/ashtar.html >Hello Bruce: >An interesting article. Nobody from Ashtar Command will keep me >from my coffee or whatever though [burp]. I don't know about that. That Ashtar fellow... he could be anywhere... spying on you and your coffee. You had better co-operate... or be assimilated! After all, resistance is futile... they say. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:29:05 -0700 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:36:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700 >Subject: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >I waited many months for the opportunity to provide new evidence >on the Mexican Air Force UFO case from march 05, 2004. I tried >hard to perform by myself the experiment of flying closer to the >Cantarell oil field as to recreate the C26A flight. The full >cost for that flight was about US $2,500 and I couldn't spend >that much. >My theory, at least for me, is finally confirmed and the Mexican >Air Force UFO case of march 05, 2004 is closed. In april 14, >2005 I was lucky enough to record a video that shows the >Cantarell oil flames group that matches the same lights as those >in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video regardless that it was >recorded in a different route, altitude and angle of view. Capt. Franz, Could you give us some details about your photos? In particular, those at www.alcione.org/FAM/APR_14_05/ At a minimum, we need to be informed of the approximate distance away from the closer of the Cantarell oil flames, and the direction in which the camera was pointing, for each image. I for one, would also like to know what the circumstances were that allowed you to obtain the video, out of curiosity. For the FLIR images, the circumstances were fully explained. I have tried to make a "match" of the lights on your video images with the anomalous FLIR images. Have others on this list tried this? It's the actual analysis of the "match" that needs presentation and discussion. The closest similarity I find is that of your image showing a group of 5 lights on the left and a group of four on the right, in comparison with the "double triplet" formation in the FLIR image. They bear a vague similarity to each other, despite the different number in each of the two groups, because in each case at least two of the bright spots in each group are oriented in a horizontal alignment. To begin to obtain a match, I would have to assume that two new oil flames (let me call them "bright spots") were established in the left-hand group some time in the past year, and one new one in the right-hand group. This seems more probable than that during the taking of the "double triplet" FLIR images as the aircraft flew along, two bright spots in the left-hand group (the "lagging" triplet) were continually blocked out by clouds while the other three were not, and that one in the right-hand ("leading triplet") group was also always blocked out while the other three were not. (See Maccabee's website for FLIR images of the "double triplet": http://brumac.8k.com/MexicanDOD5mar04/ Fig. 41.) I would also have to assume that in Fig. 41 the bright spot on the left of the lagging triplet was no longer present a year later, and the bright spot on the right of the leading triplet was no longer present a year later. Below I've tried to depict the differences graphically; look for o's: The double-triplet formation of March 5, 2004: o oo oo o Franz's images of the two groups, April 2005: ooo o o ooo o (In the lower depiction, the two groups should be some 20% further apart still.) Besides these needed assumptions, we cannot even begin to assume that the two groups illustrated here from Franz's video images are the same as the two "triplet" groups of the FLIR image. Upon measuring the ratio, R, of the spacing between the two sets of triplets divided by the average width of each triplet, I obtain R = 2.9 (measuring from the centers of the bright spots, Fig. 41.) Upon doing the same for the left-hand and right-hand groups of 5 or 4 in Franz's images, I obtain R = 10.7 +/- 1.0 (std from three different images). The distinction between 2.9 and 10.7 is far too large for me to dismiss. Did you, Capt. Franz, have some other patterns within the images in mind in calling for a match? The value of utilizing the ratio, R, is that, when the bright spots are situated more or less along a line, and are quite far away, this ratio is invariant to appreciable changes in distance away, and in changes to angle of viewing orientation. Perhaps the best known picture of the "double triplets," is the one in which they had the configuration below: oo oo o o A further asumption, if not invoking UFOs, is needed to explain why this configuration differs from that of Maccabee's Fig. 41, yet also doesn't begin to have the configuration of the two groups in Franz's pictures. Conclusion: no match is apparent to me. Jim Deardorff Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 The Engineered Moon From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:37:32 -0500 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:37:32 -0500 Subject: The Engineered Moon Source: The Epoch Times http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-4-16/27911.html Apr 16, 2005 Scientific and Historical Anomalies - The Engineered Moon By Will Barkley Dear Reader, This weekly column is intended to entertain you by exposing some of the more glaring scientific and historical anomalies which have been bypassed by our educational system. "Anomalies" also wants to challenge our readers to take a fresh look at our changing world and perhaps consider whether our established belief system is adequate. As always, your comments and suggestions are welcome and appreciated. Will Barkley Email: barkley93611.nul What if... .. Long ago and far away... The exact Star Wars introduction is "A Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far, Far Away... " I remember sitting in the movie theatre in 1977 and watching those words scroll up the screen for the first time. I was shocked! The thousands of science fiction books that I had read almost uniformly had their storylines set in the distant future. The storyline for this "Anomalies" article might begin: Long ago on a planet called Earth, orbiting around a medium sized star located on the outer edge of the Milky Way Galaxy, a civilization capable of planetary type engineering designed and built a huge titanium alloy sphere, a moon, to orbit the Earth. Over untold millions of years cosmic dust and debris collected on the sphere until, in recent times, people had the strange notion that this "moon" was the result of "natural forces at work". One of the questions I like to ask people goes something like this, "What type of event would cause you to totally re-think your belief system... to realize that we humans really don�t understand what is going on in our world." If this week�s column is successful, from now on you will have a totally different set of thoughts whenever you look up at the moon. You might even think, "How technically advanced must a civilization be in order to engineer, build and place in orbit something like the moon?" One of the problems facing the 'paradigm defenders' is that, no matter how convincing the evidence or facts are regarding the concept of an engineered moon, this hypothesis cannot be accepted because to do so would mean scrapping the established belief system, the contemporary storyline for the evolution and history of the human race. For the reader who is really interested in the concept of an engineered moon there are numerous sources available for scrutiny. Hold on to your healthy skepticism and be prepared for some chuckles. Above all, begin with an open mind and be ready to take a fresh look at the evidence. Below are some of the many sites I found by searching on the internet with keywords: moon anomalies. * http://www.geocities.com/jilaens/moon.htm * http://www.anomalous-images.com/moon.html * http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/TM-3487/notes7.htm Here is a very short, partial list of the evidence for an engineered moon: + Analysis of materials from the moon�s surface does not support previously proposed theories for the moon�s origin. + Seismic data from moonquakes tell us that the moon reverberates like a bell up to several hours after an initial shock. This data also indicates that the moon is a hollow sphere because the shockwaves travel along the surface but not into the interior of the moon. + In particular, read item #9 from the geocities link above: "In 1962, NASA scientist Dr. Gordon MacDonald stated, �If the astronomical data are reduced it is found that the data require that the interior of the moon is more like a hollow than a homogeneous sphere.�" + Also from item #9, "MIT�s Dr. Sean C. Solomon wrote, �The Lunar Orbiter experiments vastly improved our knowledge of the moon�s gravitational field... indicating the frightening possibility that the moon might be hollow.�" We only have enough space in this short "Anomalies" column to open small doors into the absolutely awesome reality that lies outside the boundaries of our contemporary scientific paradigm. If you have enough respect for the truth you can pass through any one of these doors and take a fresh look at our changing world and the cosmos [Thanks to Stuart Miller of http://www.uforeview.net for the lead] Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:38:45 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >>>Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >>>http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >>>UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>By Aaron Sakulich >>>Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >>>The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents >>>of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 >>>September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. >>>They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did >>>they know that they would be returning to terror! <snip> >>>What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >>>discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >>>Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >>>all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >>>enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >>>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. >>Huh? >>Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? >>Answer - none. >>Therefore it would have been difficult if not impossible for >>Betty to spend all her time reading books on UFO abductions. >Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? >I think it's a lot of both. He uses the same old tired debunking >tricks with absolutely no real research. Resorting to insults shows how threatened the believers are to any criticism. Calling people morons because they do not believe in alien abductions or vice versa is far from constructive. Nigel Watson Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: 'UFO' Offers An Amazing Musical Flight From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:33:14 -0400 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:39:28 -0500 Subject: Re: 'UFO' Offers An Amazing Musical Flight >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:55:20 -0500 >Subject: 'UFO' Offers An Amazing Musical Flight >Has anyone on the List heard this piece yet? As a >professional musician and an amateur ufologist it intrigues >me but I won't be able to attend. >----- >Source: Star-Telegram >http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/entertainment/11412120.htm >Composer Michael Daugherty broke lots of rules to come up >with a surprisingly lovable symphonic work in UFO, the >opening work in the Fort Worth Symphony's concert at Bass >Hall on Friday night. <snip> Michael is one of America's leading classical composers, but quite an unusual one - given how stuffy classical music can be - because almost all his pieces are about pop culture. It's from that point of view that he treats UFOs. I don't think he has any interest in UFOs as such, but he treats them (as he treated Elvis, Liberace, Superman, Route 66, and many other things) as a cultural phenonenon. I haven't heard this piece, though I have a recording of it, on the Naxos label. It was commissioned and premiered some years ago by the New York Philharmonic. (I think my memory is correct here. Or else the piece was premiered by the Philadelphia Orchestra, and later played by the Philharmonic.) When the Philharmonic played it, Michael's then-manager asked me to look at the Philharmonic's program note about UFOs. It was full of common errors; UFOs, for instance, were supposed to have come into the public eye after the Roswell crash. I corrected these mistakes, and the manager tried to get the Philharmonic to change its program note. But that didn't work, and the program appeared with an error-riddled brief history of UFOs. I'm glad the Fort Worth critic liked the piece so much. I like Michael and his work. Greg Sandow Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: 'UFO' Offers An Amazing Musical Flight From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:15:30 -0500 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:40:36 -0500 Subject: Re: 'UFO' Offers An Amazing Musical Flight >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:55:20 -0500 >Subject: 'UFO' Offers An Amazing Musical Flight >Has anyone on the List heard this piece yet? As a professional >musician and an amateur ufologist it intrigues me but I won't be >able to attend. Fort Worth Symphony URL: http://www.fortworthsymphony.com/fwso0304/pages/concsym0405.asp Here's the UFO album by Michael Daugherty on Amazon.com: http://tinyurl.com/e2yd2 Brian Adams Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Secrecy News -- 04/19/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:24:53 -0400 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:41:12 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/19/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 37 April 19, 2005 ** STATE SECRETS AND EXECUTIVE POWER ** POSTSCRIPT TO THE UK POISON CELL TRIAL ** BORDER AND TRANSPORTATION SECURITY (CRS) ** WHAT'S IN A NAME? THAT'S CLASSIFIED STATE SECRETS AND EXECUTIVE POWER The Bush Administration's use of the state secrets privilege to block a lawsuit brought by FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds will be challenged at an appellate court hearing in Washington, DC this week. The state secrets privilege, among the most powerful instruments of official secrecy, may be invoked to prevent disclosure "of any information that, if disclosed, would adversely affect national security," as described in a 1983 court decision. Last year, then-Attorney General John Ashcroft invoked the privilege in response to Ms. Edmonds' lawsuit, resulting in its dismissal. Ms. Edmonds, represented by the ACLU, is appealing to the United States Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit to reinstate her case. In advance of oral arguments on April 21, the ACLU will hold a press briefing on April 20 to discuss the issues raised by the case. See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/04/aclu042005.pdf Coincidentally, the state secrets privilege is the subject of an extended analysis in the latest issue of Political Science Quarterly. In a valuable addition to the literature, William G. Weaver and Robert M. Pallitto explore the murky origins of the privilege, its uses and abuses. "Use of the state secrets privilege in courts has grown significantly over the last twenty-five years," they note. And with only four technical exceptions, the assertion of the privilege has consistently been accepted by the courts. "Other than the scarce exception, the privilege is invariably fatal to efforts to gain access to covered documents. It is hardly surprising that such an effective tool would tempt presidents to use it with increasing frequency and in a variety of circumstances," the authors write. "State Secrets and Executive Power" by William G. Weaver and Robert M. Pallitto, Political Science Quarterly, Vol. 120, No. 1, Spring 2005, pp. 85-112, is not freely available online. But a copy may be purchased through the PSQ web site here: http://www.psqonline.org/ POSTSCRIPT TO THE UK POISON CELL TRIAL In reporting on the dismissal of charges against most members of the so-called "UK Poison Cell" last week, several major news outlets cited the insistent claim of lead prosecutor Nigel Sweeney that the poison recipes found in a defendant's possession were "scientifically viable and potentially deadly." But upon review, what is most striking about the "recipes" is their primitive character and the occasionally laughable ignorance of their malevolent authors. Translations of several of the recipes are critically discussed by George Smith of GlobalSecurity.org here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/nsn/nsn-050418.htm BORDER AND TRANSPORTATION SECURITY (CRS) A three-part series of Congressional Research Service reports considers the challenges of border and transportation security and the options available for addressing them. "Border and Transportation Security: The Complexity of the Challenge," March 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL32839.pdf "Border and Transportation Security: Selected Programs and Policies," March 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL32840.pdf "Border and Transportation Security: Possible New Directions and Policy Options,: March 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL32841.pdf WHAT'S IN A NAME? THAT'S CLASSIFIED A U.S. Senator's passing reference at a March 1 hearing to a relative of his who had been a CIA station chief 40 years ago triggered a frantic and ultimately futile official effort to scrub the relative's name from the hearing record, Congressional Quarterly reports. See "What's in a Name? That's Classified, Even 40 Years Later" by John M. Donnelly, Congressional Quarterly, April 18, 2005: http://tinyurl.com/77wuk _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood.nul voice: (202) 454-4691 Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:52:37 +0100 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:41:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:07:21 -1000 >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:55:40 EDT >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>But, like so much of the whistleblowers" testimony, Dean's >>breaks down because there is no corroboration for it, and in >>fact, there are some very disturbing aspects are it. Dean told >>researcher Tim Good that Fred Hoyle had worked as a consultant >>to The Assessment. When asked about this, Hoyle wrote that there >>wasn't an element of truth to the story. >If Hoyle was brought in as a consultant for a highly classified >"Cosmic" document, I would hardly expect him to divulge this to >UFO researchers such as Good. Hoyle would be breaking whatever >security oath he had taken, and risking whatever privileges he >had while working as a consultant if he told Good about the >existence of the Assessment. Good heavens! Do we, or rather did we, actually have a potential British whistleblower? Bit risky letting Sir Fred into such secrets. Are there, or have there been, any UK whistleblowers? Did any lose possible knighthoods (or peerages) as a result? Names please. CDA Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Sakulich and the Betty & Barney Hill Case From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:42:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Sakulich and the Betty & Barney Hill Case >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:48:53 -0300 >Subject: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ars27.nul> >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:48:53 -0300 >Subject: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case >Mr. Sakulich: >May I suggest you read Interrupted Journey by John Fuller >instead of using 2nd, third and 4th hand sources? >Your article is the real baloney. >As a nuclear physicist who met Betty and Barney Hill,(Betty >many times)and John Fuller, having served as a consultant to >Universal Studios on The UFO Incident, as the first person to >publish about the Star Map work of Marjorie Fish, having talked >to Dr. Simon, and reviewed John Fuller's papers at Boston >University, it is clear you have written fiction. >I have worked with many engineers over my years in industry. I >have never seen one get his facts so confused. Try reading the >book instead of letting your bias and ignorance get in the way >of the facts. There were no books about alien abductions in 1961 >incidentally. Hi Stan and List, What surprises me about Aaron's work is that he's actually getting his stuff aired in a forum rife with those that know better. My guess is that outside his alma mater, we are the only people seeing this tripe. Best, Kyle Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: Aliens & Child Abduction From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:46:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Aliens & Child Abduction >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:04:51 -0400 >Subject: Re: Aliens & Child Abduction >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 05:58:05 -0500 >>Subject: Aliens & Child Abduction <snip> >Alfred wrote: >>Wow! Check this out... does this cross a line? >>If so, what line does it cross? >>http://aliensandchildren.org/ >Alfred, this does much more than merely "cross a line". Speaking >as the father of two (now adult) children and the grandfather of >four little guys, what this thoughtless, self-serving trilobite >is doing with these children is the absolute height of >irresponsibility and to my way of thinking borders on criminal. <snip> >Unbelievable. How completely and utterly irresponsible. Hi John, When folks wonder how something like Heaven's Gate or Jonestown could happen, remind them of how this unfortunate child is being raised. It's actually surprising that such tragedies aren't more widespread if this abomination isn't an isolated circumstance. The environment as a force for molding ones character is no match for the influence of a parent or two, and the line of authoritative sounding charlatans seemingly eager to exploit them regardless of the damage done. The velostat hat thing is just pathetic. Kyle Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 19 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:25:02 +0100 Archived: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:47:48 -0500 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:42:59 -0700 >Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 18:55:40 +0100 >>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:36:14 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>>Source: BBC Devon >>>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/news_features/2004/ufos.shtml >>>>9th February 2004 >>>>How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>>>Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott have never been given >>>>an explanation about what they saw >>>>This is the strange tale of a UFO sighting which was >>>>reported by two Devon policemen and placed in Britain's >>>>X-Files. More than 35 years on, there's still no >>>>explanation as to what it was that the two officers saw >>>>in the sky above West Devon that October night..... >><snip> >>>The two policemen could write a book about the event, >>>wonderful descriptions, duration and all sorts of data, >>>but I still cannot catalog the case without the vitals. >><snip> >>>Please pass this note on to anyone who can get better >>>time/place coordinates. >>Hi Larry, >>The sighting by Roger Willey and Clifford Waycott has been >relatively well known on this side of the pond for quite a >while <references to discussions of the relevant sighting snipped> >>Hope this helps you Larry. >Hello Isaac and thanks much! You helped more than you may have >thought. No sweat Larry. Cutting and pasting existing references from the footnotes to my draft Chronology only takes a moment or two. Answering follow up questions can take a lot more effort, particularly when my work levels are rather unusually high - as they are at the moment (which, as I explained in my off-list apology, explains my considerable delay in responding to your questions). <snip> >Notably, the 2 policemen had mistook Venus for a "flying >cross",but still accepted the astronomer's >explanation later. I'd like to know how that happens. >Venus as a 'ball of light' seems more plausible. By now, you'll have read Martin Shough's views on this which may well have presented all the information you wanted. Just in case, I thought it worth mentioning that several researchers have commented on the fact that Venus has been reported by witnesses as appearing to have the shape of a cross (or some similar shape), and not merely as a "ball of light". Some relevant comments relating to Venus as a cause of UFO/IFO reports include (making use of a few references cut and pasted from a footnote in a draft "Explanations" document): (a) Jenny Randles in her "UFO Study" (1981) : "... Venus is often reported as a 'cross shape', and Jupiter or Venus as a 'gigantic ball' - all optical illusions due to the excessive brilliance. Such shape illusions are much more common if a witness is viewing through binoculars or window glass . Aberrations in these can lead to all kinds of distorted shapes and a magnified image. A common one for Venus is 'a dagger in the sky'" - at page 101 (in Chapter 8 - see also page 83-84 in the same chapter) of the Hale hardback edition. (b) Allan Hendry in his "The UFO Handbook" (1979) : "... Proximity to the horizon resulted in distortion effects ... artificially elongating the shape of Venus" and "Appearance : ... Shape and apparent size subject to atmospheric distortion" (at page 65 (in Chapter 3) of the Sphere softback edition). See also page 85 (in Chapter 7) . Similarly, in relation to stars, Hendry notes " ... witnesses claimed they could see a shape eben though they described the apparent size of the star as normal. ... People have seen 'spikes', 'beams', 'appendages,' and sparkles shooting out in all directions from bright stars" (at page 28, in Chapter 2). (c) "... four leaf clover" shaped light identified as Venus in Case 37 in the Condon Report. See the relevant case study online at the following link: http://ncas.sawco.com/condon/text/case37.htm Venus is also discussed by the Condon Report at pages 93-94 (in Section 3, Chapter 1 "Field Studies", by Roy Craig) of the uncorrected version submitted to the Air Force (with the same page numbering in the 3 volume paperbound edition distributed by the National Technical Information Service, US Department of Commerce), at page 65 of the Vision hardback edition (with the same page numbering in the Bantam paperback edition). The first of these editions has the same page numbering as the edition available free online at the following links: http://ncas.sawco.com/condon/text/contents.htm http://www.project1947.com/shg/condon/contents.html (By way of a rather minor experiment, I paid more attention than usual to the aeroplane lights visible in the sky through my lounge window the other night with Larry's query in mind. The brighter lights were quite visibly distorted. They had an appearance which was not merely a round "ball of light", but more like a ball of light with "beams" or "extensions" appearing to extend from the ball in four directions: up, down, left and right.) One of the members of this List whose knowledge of physics is not as rusty as my own (or someone that is more interested in optical/atmospheric issues) might well be able to explain why bright point-sources may be described as having such an appearance. The books by Hendry and Randles mentioned above are excellent as sources of the variety of descriptions of different IFOs, but are slightly less useful as authoritative explanations of the causes of the relevant distortions of shape, movement, size etc. I've quickly re-read "Oberserving UFOs" (1980) by Richard Haines looking for relevant discussion. I'd hoped to find a more detailed explanation in that book since it is dedicated to the perceptual problems relating to UFO reports. However, although there are lengthy and detailed sections on (for example) the appearances of reflections from different surfaces, my very quick review of re-reading of the book only resulted in my finding a section which explains why bright non-round objects may appear round (at page 243 in Chapter 15 of the Nelson Hall softcover edition) and a suggestion that astigmatism can cause a point source of light to appear to have spikes (at pages 196-197 in Chapter 12). The most in depth discussion of sightings allegedly caused by Venus (and other planets, as well as stars) I've seen is by Steuart Campbell in his "The UFO Mystery Solved" (1994). That book discusses sightings allegedly caused by planets at pages 66-81 (in Chapter 4) of the Explicit Books softcover edition, with Venus being discussed at pages 68-73. Those that consider that Menzel reached too far is ascribing so many UFO sightings to mirages might find Campbell's more extreme contentions a bit much. (By the way, I recall reading a UFO book about 5-10 years ago that contained a relatively long and mathematical critical treatment of Menzel's contentions on mirages but unfortunately cannot recall which book this was in. I'm fairly sure the relevant section was in an appendix to the book and that the book was relatively modern). >Neither of my sources gave the Venus finding, just the original >mystery. Do any of the sources on your long list cite Venus or >mention the astronomer? Several of the sources discuss Venus as a possible explanation, with a divergence of views as to the merits of this explanation. Several different reasons (of varying merit) are given in the different books for rejecting this potential explanation. I've set out below a summary of the position in relation to each of the books cited in my previous email. (a) Chapman, Robert in his "UFO : Flying Saucers Over Britain?"(1969) (also published as "Unidentified Flying Objects") at pages 13-23 (in Chapter 1 generally) of the Mayflower paperback edition: "It seemed that all the objects seen in the sky during October 25, 26 and 27, the nights of the flap, could be attributed to the planet Venus which astronomers at the Royal Observatory, Herstmonceux, Sussex said was extremely bright in the eastern sky in the early morning at this time of year. ... The Venus-satellite explanation, however, did not last long. It was almost immediately challenged by Mr Peter Baker, an amateur astronomer of Hastings who, it appeared, had been asked by the Observatory to look into the Flying Cross sightings. Mr Baker put the kibosh on Venus by reporting that he had spotted a UFO below cloud level and in a position which ruled out any connection with the planet". (b) Clarke, David and Roberts, Andy in their "Out of the Shadows" (2002) at pages 166-167, 169-173 (in Chapter 9) of the Piatkus hardback edition: "The most obvious culprit, the planet Venus, was overlooked in the press-driven melee. But the fact remained that the planet rose in the east between 3 and 4 am and was shining brightly at precisely the time the policeman saw their UFO. Venus was also the solution put forward by the Plymouth Astronomical Society and aircrew from RAF Clivenor, who used a sextant to demonstrate that at least one 'flying cross' was the morning planet." (c) Fairley, Peter in his "Is there Life in Outer Life?" (1975) at pages 116-117 (in Chapter 7) of the Look-In softcover edition: No discussion of possible explanations. (d) Garrett, Richard in his "Aliens From Outer Space" (1983) at pages 63-65 (in Chapter 5) of the Piccolo paperback edition: "Venus was, admittedly, shining very brightly at this particular period. It has not, however, the agility of the object encountered by those policemen in Devonshire. Nor could it explain the sighting of a similar object by an amateur astronomer at Hastings. The weather was overcast at the time, and he distinctly saw it flying below cloud level." (e) Good, Timothy in his "Above Top Secret" (1987) at page 64 (in Chapter 3) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition (with thesame page numbering in the Pan paperback edition): Refers (without comment) to answers given by Merlyn Rees in the House of Commons by on 8 November 1967. (f) Good, Timothy in his "Beyond Top Secret" (1996) at page 42 (in Chapter 3) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition (with the same page numbering in the Guild Publishing hardback edition and the Grafton paperback edition): As in "Above Top Secret". (g) Macvey, John W in his "Interstellar Travel" (1977) at pages 254-256 (in Chapter 15) of the Avon paperback edition: Refers to various sightings during the relevant week and states: "[The Royal Observatory, Greenwich] issued a statement that indicated that Venus was the cause of all the turmoil. ... As an explanation it ranks on a par with that flock of geese! When it was pointed out to them that the objects had been seen under a cloud base they agreed that Venus could hardly have been responsible and proceeded to deliberate further. The conclusion they reached cannot be termed momentous. "There is something up there," they stated unemotionally, "that is neither star nor planet!". Many had already come to that conclusion." (h) Randles, Jenny in "The Mammoth Encyclopedia of Extraterrestrial Encounters" (2001) (edited by Ronald Story) at page 140 (in an entry entitled "British Government Interest in UFOs") of theRobinson softcover edition: "It is almost certain that most of these sightings were misperceptions of the planet Venus ." (i) Randles, Jenny in her "The Little Giant Encyclopedia of UFOs"(2000) at page 69 (in Part 1, "A UFO Timeline") of the Sterling softcover edition: Short entry - no explanation (j) Randles, Jenny in Jerome Clark's "The UFO Encyclopedia: 1st edition: Volume 1 - UFOs in the 1980s" (1990) at page 30 (in an entry entitled "British Ufology") of the Apogee hardback edition: "(In later years UFO investigators would conclude this incident was precipitated by a misidentification of the planet Venus)." (k) Redfern, Nick in his "A Covert Agenda" (1997) at pages 95-100 (in Chapter 8) of the Simon & Schuster hardback edition: Description by Willey of "a star-spangled cross radiating points of light from all angles". Also refers to an independent sighting "of the same UFO by Mrs Stella Crocker if Brandis Corner ... hovered under a cloud at an altitude of about 400 feet". Redfern also refers to an explanation offered (and later withdrawn) by the MOD for various sightings of "fiery crosses" that week of "US Air Force planes refueling in mid-air". No discussion of Venus as a potential explanation. (l) Shuttlewood, Arthur in his "Warnings from Flying Friends" (1968) at pages 93-94 (in Chapter 6) of the Portway Press hardback edition: "The police affirmed that it could not possibly have been Venus. They noted that planet at the same time in another section of the sky. Certainly, no planet would have led their car on a fantastic game of 'tag' along country lanes!". As noted above, several books refer to a question in the House of Commons on 8 November 1967 in relation to the policemen's sighting with partial quotes of the relevant exchange. Since the relevant question is not available on the Houses of Parliament website, I've typed up the relevant discussion (from Hansard, House of Commons Volume 753 oral answers column 1012-1014) below: "Unidentified Flying Objects (North Devon) 15 and 16. Mr Peter Mills asked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) if he will make a statement on the circumstances in which an unidentified flying object has been seen in the Okehampton area of Devon ; and what are his plans to deal with a recurrence of this flying object ; (2) whether the flying object in the Okehampton area of Devon, which has been described as a star-shaped cross larger than a conventional aircraft, is a British aircraft or an unidentified flying object. The Under-Secretary of State for the Royal Air Force (Mr Merlyn Rees): We received a number of reports of objects seen in the sky over North Devon in October. After investigation, some proved to be aircraft and some were lights. Of the lights, the majority were the planet Venus ; but the source of a few lights has not been positively identified. I can say, however, that none of these unidentified lights was an alien object. There are standing instructions for R.A.F. stations to report unusual objects seen in the sky, and standing arrangements for investigating these reports and similar reports from other sources. I do not consider additional action necessary. Mr Mills : Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that this matter is not only of considerable interest to the South-West, particularly the Okehampton area, but also of some concern? How does this statement square with the statement of two police officers and of engineers at Hessay Tor that low-flying objects were moving for over an hour in the area? Mr Rees: In answer to a Question yesterday and another today, I have published details of all the investigations which have been made over recent years, and none of these would give any reason to believe that there are unidentified objects in the sense which has been implied. Further, we have complete radar coverage to a very great height over all these islands and have access to that over Europe, and none of this leads us to believe in any sense that this is anything else than something which we know nothing about. Mr Alan Lee Williams: Can my hon. Friend assure us that he has received scientific advice? Mr Rees: I can give that assurance. This is not just an air defence matter. We have access to scientists of high repute - they have been consulted on all these matters - and also to psychologists. Sir J Langford-Holt: The hon Gentleman said that we have complete radar coverage. In these circumstances, can he explain how a letter was sent by his Department when a report was sent about one of these objects to the effect that it "might or might not" have been an aircraft but his Department was unable to say? Mr Rees: The problem is that, if one is notified of this right away, it is possible to give a more definite reply, but when one gets a letter weeks later asking what it might have been on such and such an occasion, it is difficult to be definitive on it. But nothing leads us to believe that this is men from Mars or anything of that kind. Mr Shinwell: Would it not be desirable for the Government to encourage this idea that there are unidentified flying objects and that there is a danger of invasion from another planet? Would this not create the necessary diversion so that people in this country, and the electors in particular, would not worry about their economic problems? Mr Rees: Judging from the public's response to some newspaper reports, I can only hope that they will take my right hon. Friend's remark seriously." >May I take it that most serious ufologists there accept the >Venus explanation? Since I don't consider myself a "ufologist" (let alone a "serious ufologist"), I won't dare speak on behalf of English "serious ufologists"! Also, as you may have noticed, I'm far happier offering references than opinions. Joe McGonagle's "ufologyinuk" List is the nearest thing to a forum for "serious ufologists" in the UK that I'm aware of, and I've never seen anyone discuss the above sighting on that List. I'm sure Joe wouldn't mind you raising questions such as yours for English ufologists on his List at the following link: http://www.smartgroups.com/group/group.cfm?GID=292370 All the best, Isaac Koi Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 20 Possible UFO Sighting From ISS From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:54:23 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:58:11 -0500 Subject: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS >From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:35:39 -0500 >Subject: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS <snip> >Chiao is well qualified to discuss these topics, having logged >four shuttle-based EVAs in the American suit and two in the >Russian Orlan, the most recent one Mar. 28 (AW&ST Apr. 4, p. >32). Chiao and Expedition 10 cosmonaut Salizhan Sharipov are to >return to Earth in their own Soyuz Apr. 25. <snip> >"During this last EVA, I did see something interesting. As the >Sun started rising after the first dark period, I looked out in >the opposite direction of the Sun and saw a line of five lights. >"They appeared to by 'flying' in an echelon formation, except >that 'No. 2' was offset. They flew past us fairly quickly. I >don't know what they were, but I would guess that I either saw a >constellation of satellites being illuminated brightly by the >rising Sun, or they were bright lights from oil platforms >actually down on the Earth, but with all the other lights around >them washed out by the rising Sun. >"It just shows you that after spending a lot of time in space >and out on EVAs, there are still things that you can see that >still surprise you," he told Aviation Week from the ISS. I took the time to examine the orbit at the time of the EVA. I have an account on Space-Track so I have the orbital elements for the time period. The date is March 28, 2005 (GMT) and the EVA started at 6:25GMT and ended at 10:55 GMT. The EVA begins in the eclipse part of the orbit. If this is considerd the first "dark" period, then the orbit sun rise begins around 6:35. This places the ISS East of the southernmost tip of South America (49deg 48 minutes South by 39 deg 6 min West at 354 km). The opposite direction of the Sun would be almost in the direction of the coast of South America. Examining the DMSP lights database, strong lights seems to be coming from that area from both oil rig gas flares AND fishing boats. (Note that the DMSP database I consulted was for year 2000 and was average.) I think it is a toss up as to which could be the cause. I know I have seen ISS footage of fishing boats in the Sea of Japan. I think it more likely to be these because they usually don't have city lights around them to make them less noticable. The next orbit sunrise is around 8:08 GMT and the location is "roughtly" the same (48deg 4 minutes South by 55 deg 0 min West at 354 km) (by this I mean it is somewhat East of the southernmost tip of South America). Again it could either be fishing boats or oil rig gas flares (I hate to bring THAT up again after Campeche). Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:04:53 +0100 Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:59:03 -0500 Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:39:22 -0400 >Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >I have recruited some help. I want to look at all of the >recorded material to see if there are any other examples of >these 'formations' that resemble the glyphs/letters that myself >and several other abductees reproduced for Budd. <snip> >Posting them to the List for peer review >and feedback seems to be a waste of time and an exercise in >futility. For example, Nick Balaskas, one of the few genuine >academics on the List sees only birds! (?) Nobody else has any >comment or seems to know what to make of it. >Again, I appreciate your taking the time to have a look-see. If >anything else comes up, I'll zap you a line. Hi John, FY possible I, here is my original RADCAT entry on a maybe-relevant 1954 series of radar and visual incidents with aerial "glyphs": =================== DATE: Oct/Nov 1954 TIME: approx. noon CLASS: R ground radar LOCATION: UK SOURCES: Good ATS 1987 36, FSR CH 15 June 73 3 & n.p6 RADAR DURATION: unspecified EVALUATION: No official PRECIS: According to a War Office statement a few days after the events, radars in an undisclosed area of the UK registered "formations" of unidentified echoes on 6 occasions from late October to early November 1954. The story was covered by numerous British and European newspapers. A government spokesman quoted in the Sunday Dispatch, November 7, stated: "We cannot say what they are. They first appear in a 'U', or badly shaped hairpin, formation. After a time they converge into two parallel lines and then take up a 'Z' formation before disappearing. They are invisible to the human eye, but on the radar screen they appear as lots and lots of dots formed by between 40 and 50 echoes. They cover an area in the sky miles long and miles wide. "Every time they have been seen they followed the same pattern. It was always around midday. We have checked and found that our sets are not faulty. We are still maintaining a watch. All our sets in the area have picked them up." The targets were first observed by a civilian radar scientist, and subsequently by all radars in the area. They always moved from E to W, always appeared at a height of 12,000' and the same regular patterns were repeated on all six occasions, whether the sky was clear or cloudy. The location was kept secret, and one operator was quoted as saying that they had received high-level orders not to disclose information. The Air Ministry, evidently keen to dampen down public speculation, pointed out that there were many possible causes of echoes on radar, such as birds, aircraft, balloons or kites. But the specialists involved did not think that such regular patterns could be explained by any of these causes. NOTES: Immediate suspects in this case are birds or insects. Qualitatively speaking, the kind of changing linear formations described are reminiscent of the flight patterns of flocks of geese, for example. During the war so-called "ring angels" were first observed on radars near London when observers reported nothing visible to account for them. These expanding circles of echoes were always observed at dawn. They were eventually traced to the dispersal of flocks of birds from their nocturnal roosts. The flight patterns of migrating geese can be remarkably regular, tending to follow well-defined corridors, and the reported time of year is not inconsistent with this hypothesis. It is possible that different formations on successive days might exhibit a roughly similar sequence of flight patterns due to peculiarities of the local topography, or to consequent wind/convention currents. However, 12,000' is very high for geese and statistically improbable for any flocking bird over the UK, and if the operators' reports of invariably regular patterns are accurate then birds are a little improbable. It is also true that there is a marked tendency for birds to fly at higher mean altitudes in overcast as opposed to clear condiditions, yet these targets were reportedly always at 12,000' irrespective of cloud cover. Some of the larger insects can be observed on surveillance radars, though their cross-sections are very dependent on frequency and would not offer strong targets except on ultra- sensitive research radars. In this case the targets were apparently detected on "all the radars in the area". The implied volume of insects and the linear distributions might be a problem. The only candidate with an inherent tendency to long, linear distributions would be immature spiders parachuting on strands of gossamer, a phenomenon which does occur preferentially around October/November. However the backscattering cross-sections of such spiders are likely to be on the order of only 0.1 sq. cm. or less, and the number of individual arachnids required to yield detectable signals spanning an area "miles long and miles wide" is presumably untenable. Furthermore it strains credibility to imagine such structures, drifting at the mercy of winds and convection updraughts, rehearsing a similar ballet on six occasions, each at the same time of day. The same problem exists with seabreeze fronts which sometimes display as lines of scattered echoes (due in part to refractive discontinuities and in part to birds or insects lofted on the air currents) and other weather targets, such as rain or hail cells. Superrefractive anomalous propagation of ground returns is ruled out by the uncharacteristic target behaviour, apparent independence from weather conditions and the several different radars involved. Partial reflection from travelling waves on an inversion surface at about 6000' could generate linear clusters of mobile targets with apparent altitudes of about 12,000', but hardly with the same distribution on six occasions and on several different instruments. Radio frequency interference can generate linear speckle patterns, but the displayed product of any one source of interference would be dependent on the unique bandwidth, pulse repetition frequency and scan period of the receiver among other factors. It is therefore highly improbable that "all the radars in the area", civil and military, would simultaneously display RFI signals, and virtually impossible for them all to display the same atypical patterns of blips with the same atypical cross-scope motion - not to mention concurrent detection on PPI scopes and, it is to be presumed, height-finders. Clearly more information is needed in this case. The most probable explanation would seem to be migrating flocks of birds, but this does involve dismissing the specific assertions made by radar operators that the target formations were too regular and too accurately repeated to be due to birds. POSTSCRIPT: A curious addendum to these events is a visual report of similar phenomena over Rome on October 30 and, especially, on November 6 & 7 1954. According to Italian diplomat Alberto Perego, at that time working in Rome (he was later attached to the Italian Consulate in Belo Horizonte, Brazil) hundreds of people watched a display of numerous small lights like "white spots, sometimes with a short white trail" which formed and reformed in rough geometrical patterns resembling successively the letters 'V' and 'X', then separated into two "serpentine curves" which moved off in different directions. Perego published his descriptions in 1957. At the time he had been amazed that no newspaper reports appeared, and contacted several diplomatic colleagues and military officials about the events. No one acknowledged having any information. Interestingly, in view of the passing mention above of parachuting spiders, on both occasions Perego reports that a "shining filamentous material" descended from the sky. It "evaporated completely in a few hours." The connection - if any - between this report and the radar targets observed in Britain during the same time frame remains obscure. STATUS: Insufficient information =================== Hope that's of some use to you. Rereading this I was also reminded of some of the reported "Lubbock light" formations - 'U' and ,V' shapes. It may or may not be coincidence that birds and/or insects were indicted by some people in that case too - but the status of that case is a real can of worms in my opinion. Regards, Martin Shough Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:37:37 -0400 Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:59:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:08:08 -0500 >Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700 >>Subject: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >>Hello All, >>I waited many months for the opportunity to provide new evidence >>on the Mexican Air Force UFO case from march 05, 2004. I tried >>hard to perform by myself the experiment of flying closer to the >>Cantarell oil field as to recreate the C26A flight. The full >>cost for that flight was about US $2,500 and I couldn't spend >>that much. >>My theory, at least for me, is finally confirmed and the Mexican >>Air Force UFO case of march 05, 2004 is closed. In april 14, >>2005 I was lucky enough to record a video that shows the >>Cantarell oil flames group that matches the same lights as those >>in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video regardless that it was >>recorded in a different route, altitude and angle of view. <snip> >I agree with you about the FLIR footage. I saw your videos and >indeed see the matches between the oil well flares and the >string of 11 objects as well as the "Twins" from the FLIR video. >To me they are conclusive. I was as taken-aback as everyone else >when I saw the original video and I admit it was hard for me to >believe that this was anything but a genuine UFO/UAP event. Your >video convinced me otherwise. Good job.> >Wasn't there also a ground radar event that has yet to be> >explained? This could have been a coincidental event. Alignment of images with oil flares is nt as good as expected. However, there might have been other souroces of heat in the field of view. Required experiments were never carried out by the AF. Hence the flir images are probable but not conclusively proven to be ground sources probably including oil fires. The initial radar UFO remains unidentified. For the complete story see: http://brumac.8k.com/MexicanDOD5mar04 (4.4 Meg WORD document) Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:21:43 -0700 Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:44:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:08:08 -0500 >Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700 >>Subject: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' <snip> >I agree with you about the FLIR footage. I saw your videos and >indeed see the matches between the oil well flares and the >string of 11 objects as well as the "Twins" from the FLIR video. >To me they are conclusive. I was as taken-aback as everyone else >when I saw the original video and I admit it was hard for me to >believe that this was anything but a genuine UFO/UAP event. Your >video convinced me otherwise. Good job. >Wasn't there also a ground radar event that has yet to be >explained? This could have been a coincidental event. Hi Terry, There is _no_ military radar in Mexico, we only have ATC - Air Traffic Control - radar. There are four main ATC AREA radars for all of Mexico country - Mazatlan, Monterrey, Mexico and Merida. Merida was the closest civilian Radar to the Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case area. Because of the distance the sighting area was undetectable due the Merida's horizontal radar range capability, that can only get radar responses above 18000 ft., given the distance to Ciudad del Carmen area. Best regards and thank you for your nice comments, Capt. Alejandro Franz director.nul Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:16:00 -0700 Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:44:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:50:53 -0300 >Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:14:00 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Ashtar In Brazilian UFO Magazine >>I just want to remove all addresses of the form >>xxxxx.nul I am the only recipient. >Hello Larry. >I will remove you from the list. Any significant info will be published on the site, in both Portuguese and English. Thanks AJ! Much appreciated. - Larry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 20 Filer's Files #17 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:32:06 -0400 Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:47:13 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #17 - 2005 Filer's Files #17 -- 2005 Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International April 20, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com Webmaster: C E Warren www.cewarren. Methane on Mars The purpose of these files is to report weekly the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. Many people claim it is impossible for UFOs to visit Earth, I ask you only to keep an open mind and watch the evidence we accumulate each week. These Files make the assumption that extraterrestrial intelligent life not only exists, but my hypothesis is that of the over one hundred UFOs reported each week many represent a factual UFO sighting Articles this week include: Astronaut Gordon Cooper Saw UFOs, Rover Photographs UFO on Mars, Mars -- Green vegetation found, Simulations Point to Plenty of Alien Earths, and Congressman William D. Delahunt did not find Data Confirming the Roswell Crash? UFOs were seen over Arizona, Arkansas, California, Illinois, New Hampshire, Minnesota, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas, Utah, and Virginia. Sightings were also reported in Australia, Canada, Rumania and United Kingdom Astronaut Gordon Cooper Saw UFOs On May 15, 1963, Gordon Cooper launched into space in a Mercury capsule for a 22 orbit journey around the world. During the final orbit, he told the tracking station at Muchea (near Perth Australia) that he could see a glowing, greenish object ahead of him quickly approaching his capsule. The UFO was real and solid, because it was picked up by Muchea's tracking radar. Cooper's sighting was reported by the National Broadcast Company, which was covering the flight step by step; but when Cooper landed, reporters were told that they would not be allowed to question him about the UFO sighting. And according to a taped interview by J. L. Ferrando, Major Cooper said: "For many years I have lived with a secret, in a secrecy imposed on all specialists in astronautics. I can now reveal that every day, in the USA, our radar instruments capture objects of form and composition unknown to us. And there are thousands of witness reports and a quantity of documents to prove this, but nobody wants to make them public. Why? Because authority is afraid that people may think of God knows what kind of horrible invaders. United Nations, NY - Major Gordon Cooper spoke at the U.N. stating "I believe that these extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets""...all Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a distance and sometimes also quite closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin - flying saucers, or UFOs, if you want to call them by that name. Every time it occurred, the astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute silence." Thanks to http://www.world-action.org/astronauts.html Simulations Point to Plenty of Alien Earths Robert Roy Britt Senior science writer Space.com reports that, "New computer simulations of known extrasolar planetary systems suggest that about half of them could harbor an Earthlike world, mathematically speaking. All of the known planets orbiting other sun like stars - there are at least 130 - are very massive, most similar in heft to Jupiter. Earth-sized planets, if any exist, can't be found with present technology (with the exception of a handful discovered around a dying star). But several models by different groups have shown rocky planets about the size of Earth could exist in known systems where a giant planet orbits a sun like star. In the new work, researchers created hypothetical giant planets and found that each creates two disaster zones - one inside its orbit (closer to the star) and one outside. A fledgling Earth in either zone will either be lured into a collision with the larger planet, will hit the star, or will be tossed out to the cold, dead, far suburbs of the system. That's no surprise. But the specifics of the model bear attention: The disaster zones are governed by the giant planet's mass and the eccentricity of its orbit, or how noncircular it is. "The larger its orbital eccentricity, the greater the gravitational reach of the giant," said Barrie Jones, an astronomy professor at the Open University in Britain. Looking for water worlds the question was this: What sort of system with a large planet can support a rocky planet in a habitable zone, the region where temperatures are favorable for allowing liquid water to exist on an Earth-sized planet? "If liquid water can exist, so could life as we know it," Jones said. Thanks to Space.com Mars --UFO Disk Photographed by Spirit Columbia Hills in the Gusev Crater -The Exploration Rover Spirit Navigation Camera on August 29, 2004. (Spirit Sol 233, 10:58:29 Local Solar - NavCam, Left) photographed this UFO. There are dozens and dozens of photos with UFOs too far away to see detail at the NASA website. I turned the brightness and contrast all the way up on my monitor and brightened the picture with the automatic contrast . This object appears to be a solid object in the sky on Mars. marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/233/2N147046098EFF8600P1 554L0M1.JPG and http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/spirit/navcam/2004-08- 29/2N147046098EFF8600P1554L0M1.JPG Note: Previous questions made regarding strange photographs on Mars have been responded to only by removing the photographs from their website. Thanks to David C. ignaciousity.nul Mars Vegetation Norman Bryden writes, " I have discovered and processed the following images. In the following sections of images there is evidence of live surface vegetation on Mars. I have brightened up a few of the images to help see the colors and detail. I have studied thousands of Mars images and it is my opinion that there is vegetation, and probable higher forms of life on Mars. Good luck to all. Norman Bryden Link to ESA Image: http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/marsexpress/032-060404-0097- 6-co-02-VallesMarineris.jpg Editor's Note: Astronomers have noted for a hundred years that each year in the Spring Mars turns green. It is logical to assume the green coloring is caused by vegetation or moss/lichen like biological processes. Spectrometers have been picking up methane and water vapor around the equator of Mars. Arizona - Cigar Confused and Concerned PHOENIX -- A former Deputy Sheriff for the Hidalgo County reports that on April 17, 2005, at 11:30 PM, he saw three large cigar shaped craft flying over head. They had blue - yellow illuminators on each side with a dimmer light at the center. They moved slow, then speeded up and down and side to side motion. Despite the movement they stayed in full formation. At first I thought maybe I was seeing three helicopters but this was in no way possible. After coming to a complete stop and hovering at a distance of about one quarter mile to my north they departed at a great speed. I had a very bad headache for about 5 - 10 minutes after there departure to the northwest and I, also, almost felt somewhat disoriented. I, also, suffered severe vomiting a couple hours later at my residence with a blood colored vomit. My wife also discovered several dry skin red circular markings on my back. A similar occurrence took place with me while working in southern New Mexico as a Deputy Sheriff for the Hidalgo County, NM Sheriff's Department in 1999. I am willing to take a polygraph test if you wish. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com NORTH SCOTTSDALE -- Victoria Liljenquist writes this is another view of the three orb cluster we photographed on April 9, 2005. Thirteen other witnesses traveled to a spot where Victoria had been guided to take the group. This photo was taken after a series of smaller orbs appeared just at the horizon line of small hills. They called forth the ships and a large amber orb moving smoothly, rapidly, and silently was filmed at about 3000 feet. It then became a Double Orb. Using Night Vision on my Sony Camcorder, the LARGE DOUBLE ORB is now just white. I like night vision because it shows much more definition. This amazing craft moved closer, and lowered as it passed by us appearing as a large clustered orb. Thanks to Victoria Liljenquist - Copyright 2005. The Film footage is magnificent and will be on my website soon. www.victoriaslight.com ARKANSAS --BRIGHT ORANGE ORB ANDERSON FLATS-- Mike Stephen writes, "On April 19, 2005, Elton wife and I were getting ready to go to work at 5 AM, when we were looking around and saw a bright orange orb it stayed for about five minutes or so and also it had black spots on it. This happened in North. Arkansas Thanks to MIKE STEPHEN, E-mail report California -- UFO Captured on Film NEWPORT BEACH/ LAGUNA BEACH -- The witness reports, "I took some pictures with my new Brookstone Capture View of some boats over the water on March 1, 2005, at 1 PM. I was camping and testing out my new Brookstone Capture View Binoculars, and I was snapping some shots of boats over the water when I noticed two boats had sort of been rocking back and forth in the same place for a long time. I figured they were boats so I snapped some pictures of the two little lights. The next day I plugged my camera into the computer and the first two pictures on the camera were tiny spheres!...at first the picture looked black and that it didn't work, but I blew it up a few times and saw what looks like a sphere being lit from the right side. I stayed up and watched for awhile but the clouds were rolling in and the lights weren't doing much of anything, I wonder if the other boats saw them, or if maybe the camera/binoculars made the light look like that and it was just a shrimp boat or something? Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Florida - Two Teardrop UFO's Seen WESTON -- The first craft was seen going east toward FLL airport traveling at approximately 200 MPH at about 3,000 feet on March 1, 2005, at 6 PM. There were three lights on the craft that were not blinking. This was followed shortly by another identical craft. Neither one of the aircraft emitted any type of sound. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Hawaii -- Methane and Water Found on Mars MAUNA KEA -- Methane, as well as water have been detected using state-of-the-art infrared spectrometers stationed atop Mauna Kea, Hawaii Observatory. This evidence is sparked by interest in the UFOs that frequently fly near Mauna Kea. Insiders report the UFOs seem to encourage the study of life on other planets. Evidence for intense local enhancements in methane on Mars has been bolstered by the ground-based observations. Scientists feel the methane could be the result of biological processes. Its also possible the methane is caused by volcanic or hydrothermal activity. Any volcanoes on Mars appear dormant but geysers have been reported. On Earth many types or microbes produce methane. In August 1996, a fossilized bacteria was found on a Martian meteorite discovered in AntarcticaDr. Gilbert V. Levin still maintains his experiments aboard the Viking 1976 mission to Mars found microbial life. . Michael Mumma, a lead investigator at the Center for Astrobiology at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center presented the findings to the NASA Astrobiology Institute. Astrobiologists have speculated life exists in space. A European Space Agency probe has found evidence for large blocks of water ice just beneath the Martian surface in relatively warm conditions near the equator. This is the first large quantity of water ice on Mars thought to exist near the equator and would be a good place to search for present life. Editor's Note: These files frequently show evidence of life on Mars. Illinois -- Round Craft with Lights LEMONT -- I was out having a smoke on March 24, 2005, at 10:30 PM, and looked up and saw a round craft with white lights around the sides. The object had a round white cylinder light in the center. It was silent and didn't move. It was about the size of a grapefruit at arm's length. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Massachusetts - It Hovered 200 Feet Over Us MILTON -- The witness reports, "I was just walking home from school on March 2, 2005, at 3 PM, when I and two friends saw this cigar shaped mysterious craft. It was very fast at first, and then it slowed down over us. After about three minutes, it zoomed off at extreme speeds to the north towards the city of Boston. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Minnesota - Silent Boomerang EAGAN -- On April 15, 2005, at 1:20 AM, a silent boomerang shaped or possibly triangular shaped object appeared from the southeast traveling northwest. Because of surrounding trees, about 120 degrees of sky was visible overhead. It was a cloudless night. The object was a series of dull lights, that reminded me of amber bicycle reflectors. There were five to seven lights in a triangle along the front in a chevron pattern but the trailing edge was not clearly visible. The motion of the object caught my attention since it was black but a bit more matte and light than the background sky, like a silhouette. It was about the same size as a bald eagle flying about 50 feet overhead. The object made no sound. It traversed the arc of the sky visible to me in about 8 seconds (about 120 degrees). Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, New Hampshire - Black Triangle Hovering HOPKINTON -- Driving north on Interstate 89 just before Exit 4, on March 31, 2005 at 9:30 PM my son and I noticed three white lights hovering above the highway. When we came under the lights my son told me this thing is a big black triangle, so I pulled over and got out of the car. It was cloudy there with no stars visible and the light from the craft was clearly illuminating the bottoms of the cloud cover. It was at 1000 to 1500 feet altitude, and a few hundred feet from tip to tip The object was dark and featureless and in the shape of a perfect triangle except for three white lights. They were located at the corners of the craft, with a single non-flashing red light on the bottom directly in the center of the triangle. The object was hovering motionless above us and no noise was evident. It remained there for two minutes and began slowly moving and turned north following the highway. We followed it for three minutes more until the object disappeared into the clouds. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com New Jersey - Teardrop Wayne -- The witness states: "I was sitting in my bed when a bright array of lights caught my eyes on March 1, 2005, at 10:30 PM." I looked out the window and noticed a flying object no more than 500 feet in the air. At first I thought it was an airplane, but then it picked up speed, and moved one mile in less then three seconds. Then it disappeared. The second sighting, it was the same object, over the same area, flying the exact same route, except this one just disappeared into the after 3 seconds. The lights on the craft were weird, they were yellow, green, blue, and black. Funny thing, is it made no sound, if you would like to contact me, please do so through email. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com New Mexico - Roswell Letter Dave Veterick writes, "I spoke to Ms. Kyli Miller who composed the letter referenced in the article to Robert F. Brown from U.S. Rep. William Delahunt's office that stated, "Thank you for your letter about UFOs and the July 1947 incident that happened in Roswell, New Mexico. After looking into this matter, I have found that the debris from that is still being analyzed and is not open to the public at this time." Ms. Kyli Miller called the Roswell UFO Museum. THEY told her debris, presumably in their possession, was being analyzed, not open to the public, etc.This is her ONLY source for what she put in this letter. She DID NOT stumble on to anything within the government needing further investigation. I hope this avoids some of you from wasting time. Thanks to Dave Vetterick veterick.nul North Carolina -- UFO Photo Alan Caviness writes, "On the evening of April 10, 2005, I was shooting photos in a UFO-active area at 9:36 PM when I saw a light in the Orion Constellation suddenly turn on, hold for about 1-second, then turn off." The light turned on three different times over a 10-minute period maintaining a constant altitude and seemed to be meandering unpredictably over a region about a square mile in size. The brief light looked the same as a star and would reach an astronomical brightness magnitude of approximately -1 which is equivalent to the brightest stars in the sky. We nicknamed the object as a "Flasher" type UFO since we get many different types to appear in the local area over time. These lights could easily pass for artificial satellites to a casual observer--but, as in one case, 5 of us witnessed one of these lights actually slow down to allow an airplane to pass in front of it--reinforcing my feeling that these objects are generally operating at around 5,000 to 15,000 feet and not 200 miles or more above the earth as do manmade satellites. In 2001, I had previously witnessed this same type of phenomenon. Thanks to Alan Caviness Ohio -- Disk Calls Home In Panic NEW CUMBERSTOWN -- She won't report this to officials for fear of being thought 'crazy'. She had glanced at the window while watching TV and saw a blinking light on March 31, 2005, a minute after midnight. She saw three UFOs with a horizontal light band of different colors flashing along the side of the craft high above the ground. Each was the size of a spread hand at arm's length each. The top one moved to the left and joined two more farther to the left. She could hardly breathe and felt a pressure on her chest from being scared and ran to the phone to call us. When my wife asked if they were still there she looked out her windows but it was just dark with stars. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com FOSTORIA -- George Ritter sent two successive frames of a VHS tape that show a UFO moving from one point above a farm crib to another about 100 feet away on April 16, 2005 at 4:29 PM. The object is descending and moving north above a farm house and appears to be on a heading that would take into a large farmer's field. This general area is known to contain many underground caverns. The photo implies an ability to penetrate into underground bases that appear as normal fields. Similar reports have claimed UFOs could penetrate mountains and various water. Note similarity to UFOs photographed by the Mar's Rover. Thanks to George Ritter. Rhode Island - Triangular Ship EAST GREENWICH -- The witness was driving south on Route 4 near the Quonset Point Exit on April 14, 2005, at 8:30 PM, when he saw a triangle shaped craft. It was a dark shape with three white lights on each corner and a blinking strobe (reddish /white) dead center. There were two state policeman pulled off to the other side of the road apparently watching since there was no construction and no accident. I did not stop, but slowed to about 30 mph and rolled my window down. There was no sound coming from the craft and it was surely not moving. I am very familiar with this road and I know that there is no tower there. I continued driving and when I looked in my rear- view mirror there was nothing in the sky. I am positive that this was not a helicopter. The estimated height of the craft from the ground was 1-2000 feet. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Texas - Peculiar Military Craft Witnessed? SYDNEY -- This object was witnessed by a qualified observer near Sydney, Texas, on March 9th, 2005. The observer saw lettering on the side of a triangular craft. We suspect that it is a craft flown by the U. S. military. If anyone recognizes the object, and knows what it is, please contact our Center with details. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Utah -- Strange Objects MODENA -- This picture was taken by my neighbor and friend Lydia on April 6, 2005. They were taken with a Sony digital. It was early sunset. We have been watching strange funnel clouds that appear to have these aircraft come down thru the funnel "cloud". We think they are coming thru from another dimension. This has been going on for several months. Thanks to Carol J. Fearless48.nul and Skywatch International Virginia - Bright Blue Soccer Ball MANASSAS -- The witness was standing on his back porch on March 1, 2005, at 10:30 PM, when he observed a bright blue sphere about the size of a soccer ball. He perceived the craft to be about 100 to 200 feet above the ground. It is possible that because of the night sky and the brightness of the object that it was bigger and higher than my perception. I was struck by how perfectly round the object was. It was a self illuminated ball bright blue in color traveling northwest directly across the roof of the town home beside me. It was a clear night and I by shear chance I was looking directly at the spot where the object appeared or I might not have seen it at all. The object was visible for no more than a second or two and disappeared beyond the houses a few hundred yards away. There was no sound at all. I was an air traffic controller earlier in my life and have seen lights appear to be many things they were not. The clarity, brightness, and speed of this object is something with which I have never had an encounter before. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Australia - Light in Sky BRISBANE -- The witness observed a light in the sky that jumped around erratically, too fast and erratic for a helicopter or plane for five minutes on March 31, 2005, at 8:30 PM. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Germany - Bright Two Segmented Object Langenleiten -- My friend and I witnessed a strange object shaped like two "Tic-Tac=B4s" on Friday, on March 12, 2005, at 2:30 PM. I=B4m not sure if it was one object or two. At first we thought it was a Zeppelin of some kind, till we noticed that it looked segmented. I stopped the car, pulled over on the roadside and we watched the object for two or three minutes It was a very bright white object. It had two segments, that kind of reminded me of two Tic-Tac candies held together. It was about half the altitude of a normal passenger plane. There wasn't any noise, and the object didn't leave any contrails. It was traveling at a relatively high speed. It crossed the horizon in the 2-3 minutes we were watching, a plane (in my opinion) takes about the same time. ((NUFORC Note: The video is not very helpful in establishing what the object might be. It moves in and out of the frame of the camera frame, and it is very small, approximately the perceived size of a jet airliner overhead at cruise altitude. We do not know what the object is. PD)) Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Canada - Light formations TORONTO -- The witness observed formations of lights flying across the sky on April 17, 2005, at about 10.20 PM. It had a pattern like a large swept-back wing, without a fuselage. The pattern was symmetrical and I thought it looked like an advertising plane with lights on the wing. Only problem was that it was too large and silent. Only the single points of light in formation were visible. Then around 10.30-10.35 PM, there was a triangle formation of 3 lights flying across the sky in a southward direction. They looked like fighter jets in formation from the apparent speed and distance. The span of the formation was about 1 inch at arm's length. There was some other normal air traffic and you could make out multiple blinking lights. The light formations observed were white and single points. I, then, saw a linear formation of three lights headed north. All the lights were too far apart to be a single airplane, although they kept perfect formation. They flew straight and flew quite high. They flew too fast for a satellite, plus this was downtown and a satellite would be too dim. I estimate they were traveling 30 degrees of arc in 5 seconds when overhead. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, Romania -- UFO Caught on Film SUCEAVA -- The photographers were able to capture a UFO on a digital camera. They were able to catch the object on camera for an instant and next it disappears. The terrain is at the city limits, a forest area. The picture is very clear. (NUFORC Note: Witness does not describe object. We will encourage him to add to the report. PD)) Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com SWEDEN -- Ice Circle in River Alvsbyn -- Gosta Nilsson discovered this ice ring on the PiteAlven River south of the little town Alvsbyn in northern Sweden in January 1987. The inner circle diameter is about 50 meters. The pictures have been published in the book "Alien Art: Extraterrestrial Expressions on Earth" by Sarah Moran, Quadrillion Publishing, USA 1998. ISBN 1-85833-859-X. The author has these comments to the ice circle. The photographer Clas Svahn (a researcher for UFOs Sweden) states: "Gosta Nilsson, seen in the pictures, witnessed how the 50 meters large ice floe had formed during a period of several weeks. Such rotating sheets of ice form as ice fragments gather where a river makes a turn, or on any flowing water. This is an unusual, but well known phenomenon, and not the least mysterious". The Norwegian Crop Circle Group is aware of this prevailing theory, but feels there is reason to question whether it supplies the full solution, as ice circles can also be found in small ponds with stagnant water. UK- England Cigar CAMBRIDGE -- On Sunday April 17, 2005, four witnesses including an ex RAF officer saw a UFO approach from the west. The principal witness attempted to capture the image on digital phone camera, and reported a sense that the object 'knew it was being observed' and changed course "when I tried to take a picture". The UFO was estimated to be between 200-250 feet in size. It had a smooth, dark, non-reflective, metallic gray surface. It was traveling at between 30 -- 50 knots at an altitude of 1500-2000 feet. It was a large classic cigar-shape. It flew silently with no visible markings. The witness is cognizant of usual large air traffic (C130s, C141s, C5s and C17s) as location of observation is within ATC patterns of Cambridge Airport and RAF Lakenheath & Mildenhall USAF bases. Regular hot-air balloon over flights add to the witnesses observational credence. E-mail report. New York - Phoenix Lights Documentary The highly rated "PHOENIX LIGHTS DOCUMENTARY" will screen as part of the New York International Independent Film Festival on Monday May 2, 2005 6:15 PM at the Village Art Cinema 181 2nd Avenue [at 12th street] NY, NY 10003. On March 13, 1997, while looking skyward for a glimpse of the Halle-Bopp Comet, thousands of Arizona residents also witnessed a mile-wide, V-shaped formation of lights [that seemed to be attached to something] slowly and silently gliding over their heads. Based on the book "The Phoenix Lights...A Skeptic's Discovery that We Are Not Alone" by key witness, Lynne D. Kitei, M.D., highlights the historic unexplained mass sighting and much more! Forty-four credible eyewitnesses, Military, Former Phoenix Vice Mayor, University based scientists and experts give compelling testimony to the reality of these mysterious global visitations. Dr. Lynne will be on hand for Q & A, as well as book and DVD signing . Check out www.thephoenixlights.net for 2 minute trailer. From hundreds of commendations after 5 smash weeks at the Scottsdale Harkins Shea Movie Complex For further information and advanced tickets [recommended] contact Ticketweb at 1-866-468-7619. Tickets are $10 http://www.nyfilmvideo.com/2005/nyapril2005/phoenixlights/ http://www.ticketweb.com/user/?region=3Dnyc&query=3Ddetail&event=3D588490&in= t For complimentary VIP passes, please fax info & names of the attendees to: Annalisa San Juan Fax: 702-361-6309 Donate to Filer's Files to receive UFO CD So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. George A. Filer has been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Your dollars do make a difference! We appreciate our loyal subscribers and will continue to grow with your help. Right now we need $300 to upgrade our website. Annual Membership is only $25 for 52 weekly intelligence reports. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055 You can also Click: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master Charge. REAL ESTATE Relocation Help! Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help you relocate, buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at: Majorstar.nul MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. God Bless Our Troops. George A. Filer www.nationalufocenter.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 20 Re: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:08:09 +0100 Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:49:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:48:53 -0300 >Subject: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ars27.nul> >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:48:53 -0300 >Subject: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case >Mr. Sakulich: >May I suggest you read Interrupted Journey by John Fuller >instead of using 2nd, third and 4th hand sources? >Your article is the real baloney. >As a nuclear physicist who met Betty and Barney Hill,(Betty >many times)and John Fuller, having served as a consultant to >Universal Studios on The UFO Incident, as the first person to >publish about the Star Map work of Marjorie Fish, having talked >to Dr. Simon, and reviewed John Fuller's papers at Boston >University, it is clear you have written fiction. >I have worked with many engineers over my years in industry. I >have never seen one get his facts so confused. Try reading the >book instead of letting your bias and ignorance get in the way >of the facts. There were no books about alien abductions in 1961 >incidentally. The last sentence is certainly true. However, Betty Hill did read Keyhoe's "Flying Saucer Conspiracy", among other UFO books, soon after the incident. Keyhoe does give a few accounts of attacks by hairy dwarfs in Venezuela. Aime Michel's "Flying Saucers and the Straight Line Mystery" was also available. This gives similar encounters with humanoids during the French UFO wave of late 1954. Although these were not abductions they can be regarded as a bridge between abductions and the 1950s contactees, and might have influenced Betty's mind. What was Dr Simon's view on the effect of such books on her? Also, does anyone know for certain if Betty had read Truman Bethurum's contactee story? Some have surmised that she had, but do we really know? She need not have read the original Bethurum booklet, since the tale was reprinted in Gavin Gibbons' 1958 book "They Rode in Space Ships". CDA Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 20 UFO-USSR From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:53:21 +0100 Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:49:45 -0500 Subject: UFO-USSR Dear List Members, This is just to let you know that I have co-authored a new book with my long-standing colleague Paul Stonehill. Paul is originally from the Ukraine and our new book is titled 'UFO-USSR'. Paul now lives in California. If there is anyone on the List who would like a review copy of the book or who would like to consider Paul as a speaker at a UFO conference/meeting, then please contact me off-List and I'll process your request. Many thanks, Philip Mantle philip.nul www.beyondroswell.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 20 MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:52:08 -0500 Archived: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:52:08 -0500 Subject: MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO Source: UFO Watchdog http://www.ufowatchdog.com/ware.html 19-APR-05 MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO Fraud Donald Ware Says 'Dr. Reed' Book Is "Documentation Of An Important Event", Calls UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Disinformation Agents" Commentary on the pathetically gullible by Royce J. Myers III Unless you've been hiding in a Baghdad spider hole with Saddam Hussein, or you're just absolutely gullible, you should know by now that the story once commonly known as 'the alien in the freezer' was a scam. Better known now as the Reed UFO Fraud, this pathetic UFO con job was exposed, much to the ire of those faithful believers, as a hoax by UFOWATCHDOG.COM. After exposing the story, those responsible for the perpetration of the hoax quickly and quietly slithered back under the rocks they came out from under and those supporting the tale (Jaime Maussan, Dan Iarai, Daniel McEvoy, Art Bell, and others) suddenly didn't have very much to say about all the supposed evidence they had promoted. In fact, no scientifically verifiable evidence was ever presented to the public, though sensationalistic claims of extraterrestrial nanotechnology were made. Most of those believers blindly following the story also jumped ship... well, most of them..... Enter Florida state MUFON director, Donald M. Ware. Ware is a board member of the International UFO Congress (IUFOC), the organization responsible for promoting and hosting 'Dr. Reed' and his cohorts at three of its UFO conferences. The IUFOC even featured 'Dr. Reed' as the keynote speaker at one event. Ware was reported to have recently played host to Jonathan Bradley Rutter (aka "Dr. Jonathan Reed") and Daniel McEvoy on 10- April-2005 in Gulf Breeze, Florida after a presentation was given on the bunk alien tale. Upon hearing news of this, one Seattle UFO buff decided to fire off a letter to Ware asking why he would support, let alone expose the public to such an obvious fraud. Below is Ware's response: --- From: "Donald Ware" <donware.nul> Subject: Ware's Response to Letter on Reed Case Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:54:00 -0500 Dear Charlette, Thanks for you concern. After 53 years as a UFO researcher/investigator and truthseeker studying the larger reality represented by the UFO/alien presence, I have developed a deep understanding of what's going on. It also helps that my alien, angelic, and well-connected human friends have overtly assisted in my education since 1989. I think you have been led astray on the Reed case, just as many on the west coast were led astray on the Gulf Breeze encounters of Ed Walters and others. You underestimate the cunning of the disinformation agents and overestimate the skill and truthfulness of the "UFO watchdogs." We each choose our future through our thoughts, words, and deeds, and we usually deserve what we create. I am quite satisfied with the path I have chosen, and my track record on assessing UFO cases for five decades has been good. Your assessment ignores much evidence from 1996 and more recent events. Freddy lives, and "the alliance" provides a needed service as we join a galactic society one person at a time. It is OK if we don't all arrive at the same assessment of every case. You are not responsible for the search of others. Reed's book, The Link ,is useful documentation of an important event, even though it includes some purposeful inaccuracies of names, etc. The answers needed to expand our awareness are already in the public domain for those truly seeking them. Seek with Joy, Don Ware --- Ware wouldn't be the first to label me as a government disinformation agent, nor would he be the first to attempt to marginalize the facts exposing "Dr. Reed" as a fraud. This sort of trite finger-pointing is often espoused by those who have long ago lost touch with reality and all common sense. The few left in the field of UFOlogy who find relevant data, facts, evidence, competent investigation, and the use of common sense a bit refreshing are usually the first to suffer at the hands of those ardent believers who rely on nothing more than a bit of drama and the right story to validate their own alien beliefs. Those quick to yell "Disinformation!" are often more content with living in a fantasy world where those terrible government agents are everywhere just waiting for the slightest scent of truth to pop up so they can squash it. If you happen to disprove any of the claims of the 'believers', then you too are now an agent of evil. It doesn't matter what evidence you have showing a claim to be untrue. You've trespassed on the sacred ground of alien belief. How dare you bother the believers with the facts. "I am quite satisfied with the path I have chosen... " This statement made by Ware speaks volumes of relying on belief rather than on investigation and fact. And most of us wonder why the UFO field suffers from such an incredible lack of credibility - look no further than Ware or the other 'believers' who zealously embrace the "Dr. Reed" case as the be all end all of Ufology. No matter how loud someone yells "Cover-up!" or how hard some want to ignore facts, in the end the Reed UFO Fraud is what it is: an outright fraud. The need to believe, this wanton urge for something to be true, seeking validation for what one perceives as 'the truth' while ignoring all data to the contrary - this is nothing less than a gross act of disinformation itself that does far more damage to the credible body of UFO evidence than any imaginary government bad guys could ever do. A sort of reverse and extreme skepticism, if you will. So, does Ware's belief change anything about the "Dr. Reed" story? Of course not. The Reed UFO Fraud is a lackluster, third- rate UFO scam conjured up by a few people preying on the gullible and wanting their fifteen minutes and a few bucks. It appears the gullible are still out there. [UFO UpDates thanks Royce J. Myers III for the lead] Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 21 Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On Reed From: Larry Bryant <overtci.nul> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:56:04 -0500 Archived: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:57:05 -0500 Subject: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On Reed ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: victorgm.nul (Victor Martinez) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:56:54 -0700 --- From: Kathleen Anderson <bankerquest.nul> To: Victor Martinez Re: The Jonathan Reed UFO Fraud "Alien in the Freezer," Wednesday, 4-20-05 I worked on the Reed case from the time it became public until the time it "went away." Although I am a writer and have worked in newspaper, radio, television and now magazine, this story was very close to home for me. Literally in my neighborhood to be exact. The list of characters were people I knew, people my brother in law worked with (Harold Chicon), a friend of my sister (Robert Raith), a customer of mine (Dolly Georgas's nephew) and even a neighbor Barbara Charvet (Jon's fiance). People in my neighborhood know Jon and have for years. They have no reason to lie about his background, his job, who he is. This is where he grew up. Mr. Reed actually lives around the corner from my old house. Now that's quite a story in itself. He still buys milk at the Chevron where he gets gas. The trail was one I was familiar with, the mountain terrritory was one I have spent many years hiking and camping. I don't have a copy of the story I wrote, perhaps Charlette had it but I can fill you in on any details. Well, it showed up later than the actual incident. Bobby Raith sent Art Bell a fax stating he had some information that would "blow the socks" or something like that off ufology. It involved Jonathan Reed who, while hiking in the Cascade Mts one October, came across an alien he hit over the head after the alien pulvarized his faithful dog. He then took the body home, put it in his freezer. Ironically "Freddie," so he was named, liked the freezer and granted Mr. Reed the secrets of the universe. Reed then decided to pass this bit of wisdom to the public in the form of his book written by him and Bobby Raith. Of course, in comes the nasty government who stole Freddie from the freezer. That's the recap. The players are Jonathan Reed, real name Jon/John Rutter of West Seattle. Robert Raith actually was a friend of my sisters and I knew him prior to his book. He wanted to be a writer and loved Art Bell. He was working on a story about what he called "necco dancing." Meaning he was fighting off evil in his dreams to preserve mankind of having to do it during the day. He also mentioned he had met someone with a great story. Hence Reed and Raith met. Not surprised. Bobby worked at the Admiral Chevron on California Ave in West Seattle and Reed was a regular customer for gas and milk. All the personnel knew him. Somehow they collaborated the story. Art Bell took it by bringing in Dr. Harold Chicon. Harold actually worked and still works at the Admiral Chevron. Now however, he always appears in dark glasses. Harold by the way was a friend of my sister. I know the owner of the Chevron so there is no question here not to mention one of my relatives worked with Bobby and Harold. Art said on his show when he had Harold on "Dr. Harold Chicon, a microbiologist" and went on to say "a real doctor" or something like that. Harold claimed he analyzed the tissue and it was "not of this earth." So Reed and Raith go on a media tour, touting the mysteries of the universe. Until that is lo and behold, people who know these two come forward. One was Barbara Charvet who lives across the street from Reed's parents and who was engaged to Reed. No sour grapes here, she could care less but wanted the story straight that Jon made it clear he was going to pull off some outrageous story. Jon it seems has some sort of night job... gets all spruced up, leaves the house at 8, is known to frequent The Thirteen Coins in downtown Seattle and comes home with cash around 5am. No one has ever determined what he really does, but Barbara said he does not keep money in the bank, only what he needs to pay bills. Jon claimed he was a psychologist working with abused children, but it is never clear how you can do this when you work while children are sleeping. No school documents nor work documents were ever found. I do know he spent time at The 13 Coins because everyone knows him down there, I asked myself. Tip off's all along were present. -- First of all, he stated on Art Bell he called the National UFO Reporting Center and MUFON Seattle. The week he supposedly called, Peter Davenport and myself were in Brisbane Australia at a UFO conference. -- The next big tip off was his story didn't make sense with the weather. I did a lot of research for that whole month, it was an early winter. The Cascades have snow in September some years. It could not have been a sunny, fall day in which he observed fall foliage nor his photos did not reflect the weather of that day. -- His trail up and down time was not accurate. Especially if he was hauling an alien over his back. He would have had to be superman to get down that trail, its full of roots and rocks. Then he would have had to drive almost 100 miles an hour to the nearest ranger station which there are so many highway patrol in that corridor it is highly unlikely he would have not been pulled over for speeding. This is long. I can go on and on about why the story is just plain not true. It's a shame that we cannot focus on good ufo information and waste our time on garbage. Sad but true. Thanks, Kathleen Anderson Sworn and subscribed on this day of Tuesday, April 19, 2005 United States of America http://www.ufowatchdog.com/reedufofraud.html Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 21 AARP Presents Investigator's Talk On UFOs From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:04:17 -0500 Archived: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:57:39 -0500 Subject: AARP Presents Investigator's Talk On UFOs Source: The Daily Review - Pleasanton, California http://www.insidebayarea.com/dailyreview/localnews/ci_2670066 April 20th 2005 Union City Man To Speak At Library Meeting Of Retirees By Matt O'Brien Staff Writer HAYWARD - Trying to explain paranormal phenomena has never been at the top of AARP's nationwide agenda, but the local chapter believes retirees might have something to learn about unidentified flying objects. UFO investigator Ruben Uriarte of Union City plans to address local retirees during an AARP meeting today at the Hayward Public Library's Weekes Branch on Patrick Avenue. Uriarte, 53, the Northern California director of the Mutual UFO Network and a maintenance employee at the New Haven Unified School District, said more and more Bay Area residents are overcoming ridicule to report UFO sightings. Uriarte said the Central Valley skyline over Interstate 5 is one of the top spots for sightings. "I think people are just becoming more aware," Uriarte said. "There's better communication through the Internet and outreach efforts." Uriarte said more reported UFO sightings also mean more hoaxes, but he said his organization has interviewers trained to determine whether sightings could be legitimate. "They could be mistaken for other things, but our role is to investigate," Uriarte said. "What they are looking for, a lot of times, is an explanation, and we try to provide that." Uriarte is scheduled to give a historical overview of the subject of UFOs, along with crop circles. The talk is free and expected to begin at 1:30 p.m. and last until about 3 p.m. The Weekes Branch is located at 27300 Patrick Ave. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 21 Underwater UFOs/USOs? From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:11:06 +0200 Archived: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:58:18 -0500 Subject: Underwater UFOs/USOs? Does anyone know, or have a way of telling me, whether those USOs seen under/near water are different than the ones seen in the air? Do they have a particular shape, or are they any or all shapes? Diana CT Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 21 Dr. John Mack From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:24:56 +0100 (BST) Archived: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:58:54 -0500 Subject: Dr. John Mack The trial of Raymond Czechowski, charged with causing the death of Dr John Mack while under the influence of alcohol, has been set for September 12th 2005 at Wood Green Crown Court in North London. The defendant is still out on bail. Stuart Miller Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:31:48 -0500 Archived: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:59:30 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >>>>What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >>>>discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >>>>Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >>>>all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >>>>enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >>>>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>>>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. >>>Huh? >>>Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? >>>Answer - none. >>>Therefore it would have been difficult if not impossible for >>>Betty to spend all her time reading books on UFO abductions. >>Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? >>I think it's a lot of both. He uses the same old tired debunking >>tricks with absolutely no real research. >Resorting to insults shows how threatened the believers are to >any criticism. Calling people morons because they do not believe >in alien abductions or vice versa is far from constructive. It appears to me from reading the above exchange that belief had absolutely nothing to do with it. What evoked descriptions like "moron" and "idiot" was the assertion that Betty Hill spent her time reading books about alien abductions before there were any such books. Contrary to the way you're trying to spin this, nobody has said that all skeptics of UFO abductions are morons or idiots. But clearly, a few of them at least act like they are. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:32:11 +0100 Archived: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:00:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:52:37 +0100 >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >Good heavens! Do we, or rather did we, actually have a potential >British whistleblower? Bit risky letting Sir Fred into such >secrets. >Are there, or have there been, any UK whistleblowers? Did any >lose possible knighthoods (or peerages) as a result? Names >please. Christopher, your argument seems a bit circular, after all, if a whistle blower _was_ silenced, suppressed, punished, we wouldn't know of him/her. And in fact Hoyle's astro-phys work - especially the analyzing and correctly forecasting _and_ arranging the discovery of then unknown energy level of carbon in stellar evolution easily deserved the Nobel prize. http://www.perceptions.couk.com/magic2.html#3 Are you saying he _wasn't_ punished and partly obscured by denial of that recognition? Also, you may not know the facts on Chief of Defence Staff, Admiral Lord Hill-Norton. http://www.perceptions.couk.com/reports.txt He came in for some sniping after those observations. How many more were silenced and totally obscured? Cheers Ray D ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:15:03 -0400 Archived: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:00:53 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >Resorting to insults shows how threatened the believers are to >any criticism. Calling people morons because they do not believe >in alien abductions or vice versa is far from constructive. Hi Nigel, I don't think that Bruce really offered that as an insult, but rather as an actual question. If one is to promote the idea that Betty was predisposed to believing in aliens prior to the alleged abduction, then one should show evidence to that effect (or at least give an indication that such material was available at the time for her assimilation). From my reading of the article, I found it lacking in many ways, but my criticism would be that he expresses the belief that this resolves an event that people have been looking at for many, many years. There are far too many in this genre who many people who propose conclusions and theories based on little more than "that's the only conclusion that makes sense". Promoting a theory is one thing; but declaring victory is probably a bit too much. Steve Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:40:40 -0500 Archived: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:02:01 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >>>>Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal >>>>University >>>>http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >>>>UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>By Aaron Sakulich >>>>Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >>>>The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents >>>>of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 >>>>September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. >>>>They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did >>>>they know that they would be returning to terror! ><snip> >>>>What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >>>>discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >>>>Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >>>>all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >>>>enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >>>>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>>>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. >>>Huh? >>>Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? >>>Answer - none. >>>Therefore it would have been difficult if not impossible for >>>Betty to spend all her time reading books on UFO abductions. >>Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? >>I think it's a lot of both. He uses the same old tired debunking >>tricks with absolutely no real research. >Resorting to insults... Yes, regrettable... always regrettable... forever regrettable... but in this case also ~reflexively~ regrettable and so then somewhat less regrettable, even understandable, and for my money laudable. Was this a little too much on our first encounter, Sir? Sorry. Any institutional memory on this subject at all demonstrates that the very best the card-carrying klasskurtzian pelicanist (and please find it in your offended sensibilities to forgive that easily bestowed, but identifying, appellation) ...can throw is batted well out of the debated park by their citation providing opposition. That the rationally dismissible points of the former can be raised again and again, year after year in the same uninformed, arrogant, and portentous manner without an equal outrage on your part... provokes somthing of an outrage in me, to be sure. >...shows how threatened... Maybe not threatened so much as exasperated, intellectually insulted, or, ethically outraged. We'll forget for a moment the implication, above, that the positions of your obvious opposition are remotely assailable to begin with, and that we've a collective fear that our flim-flammery is, at base, unsupported, and would be found out. ...That in a hard, harsh light we know that we are exposed, and so duplicitous... and so concoct insult and ad hominum to cover our weak flanks and dodgy theories... How is it then that it is _us_ (as it has always been) who call for that hard harsh light (your side only makes reference to) which is not forthcoming? Again! Is there quality information with regard to UFOs that is hidden from the rank and file individual? Almost certainly! The huge volume of _extant_ evidence is of a quality that cannot be forever ignored... still, you'd seem to want to try. Verily, the quality anecdotal evidence, compounded with the vetted photographic evidence, and then added to the documented historical evidence, gives _every_ indication that a ufological contention regarding that phenomena _must_ be more real than not... Moreover, when the preceding is framed by the serious artistic evidence, qualified by the available physical evidence, and then compellingly buttressed by the conclusively personal evidence, I can only be annoyingly astonished by the continued reluctance of _some_ to face the highly strange music that just cannot be -forever- marginalized... Does the information available justify attention by the mainstream to perform a more 'in depth' investigation of UFOs? Absolutely! Still - 50 years later we'd have to deal with the giggles provoked by non-believers... to wit: >...the believers ... We'll forget for a moment, too, that you airily address persons on this List who 'believe' in UFOs and abduction the same way you 'believe' in pissants falling into the gravity well of a neutron star (Nice twist, eh Doc?). We'll forget, too, that the appellation is insulting, in as much as it connotes the infirm, the credulous, and the mouth-breathing fringe. Who's the believer, Sir? He who believes the official past that never was, or he who believes the future is beyond belief? >...are to any criticism. Any _illogical_ criticism, any _non-constructive_ criticism, any _inconsistent_ criticism, any _repressive_ criticism, any _already discredited_ criticism, any _incomplete_ criticism, any _fallacious_ criticism, any _mal-critical_ criticism, any _partisan_ criticism... I won't go on, but I could. >Calling people morons because they do not believe >in alien abductions or vice versa is far from constructive. On the face of it, you would be right. But your relevancy, not unlike beauty, is only skin deep, Mr. Watson. It remains that our poor Mr. Sakulich is something less that informed, is more than willing to pronounce authoritatively on that ignorance, and is in no way willing to bring himself up to speed with regard to an ameliorization of that ignorance. This would make Mr. Sakulich, at _best_ a moron, Sir. At worst? alienview.nul -:|:- www.AlienView.net Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 21 Re: Sakulich and the Betty & Barney Hill Case From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:56:09 EDT Archived: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:02:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Sakulich and the Betty & Barney Hill Case >From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:47:13 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Sakulich and the Betty & Barney Hill Case >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:48:53 -0300 >>Subject: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ars27.nul> >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:48:53 -0300 >>Subject: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case >>Mr. Sakulich: >>May I suggest you read Interrupted Journey by John Fuller >>instead of using 2nd, third and 4th hand sources? >>Your article is the real baloney. >>As a nuclear physicist who met Betty and Barney Hill,(Betty >>many times)and John Fuller, having served as a consultant to >>Universal Studios on The UFO Incident, as the first person to >>publish about the Star Map work of Marjorie Fish, having talked >>to Dr. Simon, and reviewed John Fuller's papers at Boston >>University, it is clear you have written fiction. >>I have worked with many engineers over my years in industry. I >>have never seen one get his facts so confused. Try reading the >>book instead of letting your bias and ignorance get in the way >>of the facts. There were no books about alien abductions in 1961 >>incidentally. >Hi Stan and List, >What surprises me about Aaron's work is that he's actually >getting his stuff aired in a forum rife with those that know >better. >My guess is that outside his alma mater, we are the only people >seeing this tripe. Well said Kyle. Sakulich is only doing this nonsense to get attention. Hotties on his campus must really go for the 'debunker' type. Beats joining the Glee Club I'd wager. Leave us not even entertain debating him as it only validates his obvious shortcomings. Let him be his own Brutus. Best, Greg Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:27:06 -0500 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:07:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:54:23 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS <snip> >I took the time to examine the orbit at the time of the EVA. >I have an account on Space-Track so I have the orbital elements >for the time period. The date is March 28, 2005 (GMT) and the >EVA started at 6:25GMT and ended at 10:55 GMT. The EVA begins in >the eclipse part of the orbit. If this is considerd the first >"dark" period, then the orbit sun rise begins around 6:35. This >places the ISS East of the southernmost tip of South America >(49deg 48 minutes South by 39 deg 6 min West at 354 km). >The opposite direction of the Sun would be almost in the >direction of the coast of South America. Examining the DMSP >lights database, strong lights seems to be coming from that area >from both oil rig gas flares AND fishing boats. (Note that the >DMSP database I consulted was for year 2000 and was average.) >I think it is a toss up as to which could be the cause. I know I >have seen ISS footage of fishing boats in the Sea of Japan. I >think it more likely to be these because they usually don't have >city lights around them to make them less noticable. You're probably right, though what struck me funny in Chiao's statement was reference to the possibility that it was a constellation of satellites. Unless it was a very short period use constellation, they wouldn't have been below the ISS. It was merely interesting that he speculated that scenario. <snip> >Again it could either be >fishing boats or oil rig gas flares (I hate to bring THAT up >again after Campeche). Ha. That's for certain! Thanks for the in-depth research, Mr. Smith. J. Craig Beasley Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:12:25 -0500 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:08:26 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >>>>Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >>>>http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >>>>UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>By Aaron Sakulich >>>>Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >>>>The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents >>>>of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 >>>>September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. >>>>They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did >>>>they know that they would be returning to terror! ><snip> >>>>What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >>>>discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >>>>Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >>>>all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >>>>enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >>>>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>>>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. >>>Huh? >>>Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? >>>Answer - none. <snip> >>Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? >>I think it's a lot of both. He uses the same old tired debunking >>tricks with absolutely no real research. >Resorting to insults shows how threatened the believers are to >any criticism. Calling people morons because they do not believe >in alien abductions or vice versa is far from constructive. It is, when you tell Mr. Sakulich why one feels that way. I usually post responses to his scribblings directly to the Triangle. There is no need to explain why I think he's a moron here in this forum. Most already know why. Terry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:24:12 +0200 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:08:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:08:09 +0100 >Subject: Re: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:48:53 -0300 >>Subject: Sakulich And The Betty & Barney Hill Case ><snip> >Although these were not abductions they can be regarded as a >bridge between abductions and the 1950s contactees, and might >have influenced Betty's mind. What was Dr Simon's view on the >effect of such books on her? Also, does anyone know for certain >if Betty had read Truman Bethurum's contactee story? Some have >surmised that she had, but do we really know? She need not have >read the original Bethurum booklet, since the tale was reprinted >in Gavin Gibbons' 1958 book "They Rode in Space Ships". Christopher and all, From the book, The Interrupted Journey, that he wrote with J. Fuller, it appears that Dr Simon did not worry about that. He was convinced that the Hill were not lying and were not hallucinating (pp. 226 and 227 ot the Dell paperback edition). This left the possibilities of dreams or of a real event, for their abduction story, as retrieved under hypnosis. And since he could not believe it was real, he tried as much as he could to convince them that they had dreamt. It is obvious in the transcripts of the hypnosis sessions - he tried all the time to convince them of that, but both Betty and Barney denied it firmly. Barney also denied that Betty could have influenced him (see pp. 228, 235, 257, 261, 278, 282, 329). So the idea that Betty and Barney would have imagined their story after reading Ufo books, and/or science-fiction stories (Kevin Randle cited a film in his book) seems to me to be extremely improbable. Gildas Bourdais Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director From: Bland Pugh <flmufonsd.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:24:51 EDT Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:10:23 -0500 Subject: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director See: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/apr/m20-009.shtml >Source: UFO Watchdog >http://www.ufowatchdog.com/ware.html >19-APR-05 >MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO Fraud >Donald Ware Says 'Dr. Reed' Book Is "Documentation Of An >Important Event", Calls UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Disinformation Agents" Donald Ware is not the Florida MUFON State Director nor has he been in well over a decade. Currently I, Bland Pugh, hold that position and have for the last five years - Charles Flannigan for over ten year prior to that. Thanks for the correction. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Universal UFO BlogRing From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:37:03 -0500 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:10:43 -0500 Subject: Universal UFO BlogRing Announcing the new Universal UFO BlogRing. This combines blogs with the functionality of Webring.com to make it easier for visitors to find your blog. Visit: http://h.webring.com/hub?ring=universalufoblog Join: http://h.webring.com/wrman?ring=universalufoblog&addsite Terry Groff Field Investigator/Webmaster Dallas-Fort Worth MUFON http://mufondfw.com http://mufondfw.terrygroff.com http://mufondfw.blogspot.com Webmaster UFO TOOLS http://ufotools.terrygroff.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:11:26 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at >Drexal University >http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >By Aaron Sakulich >Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple >and residents <snip> I wrote a letter to the editor of that student newspaper, just on a whim. I didn't research it too heavily (I could have, for example, tracked down and cited the various op-eds which Sakulich rewrote for his student paper). But I just wanted the editors to note the obvious: that the guy is just paraphrasing CSICOP, and that being the case, he needs to identify himself as a CSICOP member so the readers know the ideas and opinions aren't original. Here's my letter: The op-ed "UFO couple use story to spark alien abduction fear By Aaron Sakulich," (April 15, 2005), about a ufo sighting by the late Betty Hill, restates the arguments of similar editorials written by members of CSICOP, a popular anti-research organization. There is no original research nor new insights in Sakulich's op- ed, only the same ideas that were presented by CSICOP's members last year when Ms. Hill passed away. Even the person quoted by Sakulich, Robert Schaeffer, is a CSICOP representative. The bit about aliens "wraparound" eyes is part of CSICOP's FAQ. Though I appreciate that CSICOP encourages its members to write editorials to their local papers, couldn't those who heed that call at least write something original? I'd call on the editors to ask Sakulich to openly state his membership status with CSICOP in his bioline. Although there is nothing wrong with being a CSICOP member, if Sakulich is writing up their speaking points on their behalf, as part of his membership responsibilities, shouldn't that fact be shared in the bioline? Will Bueche (non-Drexel) The John E. Mack Institute Cambridge, MA Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:37:10 EDT Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:12:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:07:21 -1000 >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:55:40 EDT >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:06:56 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:08:23 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 04:35:39 -1000 >>>>>Subject: Science & Faith Based Approaches To Research >>>><snip> >Aloha Kevin, one of the points I've been making in this thread >s that it's important to have the correct premises upon which >to base UFO research. I've claimed that we need to distinguish >between a 'soft' and 'hard' cover up of the UFO phenomenon. >Veteran UFO researchers generally agree that a 'soft' cover up >exists in that public officials are instructed not to disclosue >UFO information, cases withdrawn from public access, 'hard >evidence' withdrawn from sites of alleged UFO crashes, etc. It's >however the 'hard' cover up which is more difficult for veteran >researchers to acknowledge in the sense of evidence tampering, >witness intimidation, removal of public records, discrediting >whistleblowers/witnesses, etc. However, there is clear >testimonial evidence that such a 'hard' cover up exists as with >a number of whistleblowers who have come forward, and the >intimidation, threats, etc., meted out to whistleblowers and/or >witnesses. This extends to whistleblowers/witnesses allegedly >being eliminated as contended by Dan Morris, Daniel Salter, >Wendelle Stevens and covered in an article by Cope Schellhorn, >http://www.metatech.org/ufo_research_magazine_evidence.html . >This means that one takes a considerable risk in making hard >evidence the fulcrum upon which to base UFO research. That risk >is similar to jumping off a cliff in the faith that the truth >will come forth due to the integrity of the researchers and the >scientific methods they bring to bear on the available hard >evidence. Such an approach is clearly faith based and has the >appearance of science since it faithfully adheres to the need to >analyse hard evidence. However, that approach flies in the face >of the evidence of a 'hard cover up' underway which is well >orchestrated, funded and done by professionals in various >national security agencies. If I'm correct, and there's >considerable testimonial evidence (Disclosure Project) and >documentary evidence (Majestic Documents) to support my >contention, then making hard evidence the fulcrum to analyse >whistleblower testimonies is necessarily flawed. This presupposes that the testimonial evidence from the Disclosure Project and the documentary evidence in the MJ-12 documents can be trusted. I'm suggesting that neither source can be trusted and therefore any reliance on them as a basis to argue for a hard cover up is flawed in the beginning. >This brings me to your allegations concerning the three >whistleblowers whose military credentials in my view lend >plausibility to their claims: Phillip Corso, Robert Dean and >Clifford Stone. You raise some objections to their plausiblity >due to 'hard evidence' that they may have fabricated part of >their stories or that parts of their testimonies don't check >out. I think your approach raises two red flags. First, your >style is similar to a court room attorney who wants to discredit >witnesses by focusing on minor inconsistencies in their >testimonies and backgrounds. The attorney's hope is that by >discrediting them in this way, you can get the judge/jury to >dismiss their testimony. I don't see you at all interested in >the claims Corso, Dean and Stone are making, you just want to >focus on inconsistencies that you claim to be critical to their >credibility, but appear to me to be red herrings. Second, you >make hard evidence the 'litmus test' for whistleblower >credibilty and ignore evidence that a hard cover up is underway >that could easily mask some aspects of a whistleblowers >background or testimony. So keeping these red flags in mind, >I'll respond as best I can to your comments. I was very interested in those claims, talked to Dean and Stone, and even received a letter from Corso's doctor and had conversations with Robert Brines, his co-author. I looked for corroboration of their tales but found them wanting. It is interesting that their lack of proof for their claims is considered proof by others. Their records have been altered, their documentation has been stolen, and they have been intimidated by this vast conspiracy to silence them. Interestingly they suggest the government would stop at nothing to silence them, and Stone even talks about being taken from his home with weapons pointed at him, but he's still alive to make his charges" all with no evidence that any of this happen. ><snip> >>While each "phony whistleblower" might have an interesting tale >>to tell, that doesn't mean the tale is true. And while there >>seems to be little or no hard evidence to support them, there is >>some hard evidence to suggest they are not telling the truth. >>Philip Corso claimed to be a colonel, explained that he had been >>promoted to colonel upon retirement, yet his military records >>does not reflect such a promotion. >Corso begins his book, The Day After Roswell, by clearly stating >that he was a Lt-Colonel who headed up the Foreign Technology >Desk for a two year period in the 1960s. I don't have access to >his military records so I can't confirm or deny what happened >upon his retirement and the details of his promotion. What >happened during his tenure at the Foreign Technology desk is >certainly the crux of his credibility as a whistleblower. Why >would an individual with such a sterling military service record >as Corso's concoct such a tale in his autobiography which >establishes his legacy? I think it reasonable to conclude that >he was not telling a tall tale but giving a factual account of >his work at the Pentagon while at the Foreign Technology desk. >While no hard evidence was given to support Corso's claims, he >put his reputation and legacy on the line in coming forward. His >credibility as a witness comes from his service record and very >senior positions he held. I think your point about Corso's >service record and promotion is a red herring. Yes, but he was asked why he was identified as a colonel on the cover and rather than saying that his publisher made an error, he said that he had been promoted to colonel in the reserve on his retirement. Again, there is no evidence this is true. In his proposal for his book he identifies himself as a colonel and not a lieutenant colonel. And even worse, the first line of his book suggests he was the chief of the Foreign Technology Division for two years when his record shows that it was for only 90 days. I certainly hope you aren't going to suggest that someone altered the record by reducing his time with the Foreign Technology Division. In his proposal, he included some sample chapters including something he called a "Precede" in which he writes about his UFO experiences, and then signs it, "P.J. Corso, Colonel, USA, Ret." Again, he just wasn't a colonel though he represented himself as such. >>He claimed to have been the >>commander at the White Sands Missile Range yet all the >>commanders except for the very first, and one who took over >>temporarily have been generals. The White Sands website provides >>a list of the commanders and Corso is not on the list. He >>claimed, at one point, to have been a member of MJ-12 and was >>not (assuming that MJ-12 is a real committee) and he induced >>Senator Strom Thurman to write an introduction for his book >>claiming it was about his brushes with greatness, when it was >>about the Roswell UFO crash. >As far as I'm aware, Corso never claimed to be a member of MJ- >12, he just referred to its existence and composition. In the proposal for his book he writes, "recounts the continuing reports of UFO activity that passed through Eisenhower's White House, when the author was on assignment there, to the staff of MJ-12." That sounds like a fairly blatant claim that Corso was a member of MJ-12" a claim that did not make it into the final version of his book. >Corso discussed the circumstances surrounding his use of Strom >Thurman foreword in an interview with Michael Lindeman - see: >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/roswell018.html >Corso claims he told Thurman of the UFOs he discussed in his >book and that Thurman nevertheless agreed to write the foreword >for the Day After Roswell and understood it was about UFOs. It's >likely that during his employment service for the former Senator >he discretely divulged some of the projects he worked on despite >his alleged vow to Lt Gen Trudeau to not go public. Thurman may >have written the foreward as a favor to a former close advisor >but once his staffers discovered what was in Corso's book, they >quickly rescinded permission for the foreword to be used. Yet in his proposal letter he said that Thurmond had written a glowing introduction to his book "I Walked with Giants: My Career in Military Intelligence." That introduction was then used for his Roswell book" before Thurmond and his aides insisted that it be removed. Switching the story and the introductions around does not speak well of Corso. >>Some pictures in his books of UFOs >>are well known fakes and if Corso was who he claimed to be, he >>should have known this. Interviewed on the radio with Frank >>Kaufmann, when there was a conflict, he bowed to Kaufmann who >>has since been proven to be a fraud. If Corso was who he claimed >>to be, he should have known about Kaufmann. His tale of seeing >>an alien body at Ft. Riley, KS, as the convoy made it's way from >>Roswell to Wright Field, is phony, for a number of reasons, not >>the least of which is the way he was shown the alien body at the >>suggestion of his friend, when he should have turned his friend >>in for violation of security (Yes, I know you"ll say that it was >>his friend and he didn't want him to get into trouble, but just >>what in the hell was the friend doing going through classified >As for the veracity of the photos in Corso's books, I don't know >where you got your information that they are "well known fakes". >There may be considerible controversy about them, but that >doesn't make them fakes. I don't know about Kaufman and the >incident you are referring to. As for the alleged convoy through >Ft Riley, the 'friend' was in fact the sergeant on guard duty >and had peered into the contents of the boxes he was guarding. >The Sergeant had some time invited Corso to join a bowling team >so that was the basis of their relationship. Corso was a Major >at the time and the Sergeant an NCO, so it's a bit of a stretch >to say he was Corso's friend. The picture in his book, labeled, "Lt. Col. Corso was never able to confirm the veracity of the following purported UFO surveillance photos, which were in Army Intelligence files as support material for the R&D project to harvest Roswell Alien technology for military purposes." The picture under that caption is of a domed disk flying over some hills. Ed Ruppelt identified it as a 1935 Ford hubcap. Look magazine, in 1966, identified it as a hoax and provided the name of the photographer who admitted it was a hoax. Guy B. Marquand, Jr., said that he was sorry to disillusion people and that "I was 21 years old at the time and just having fun." It was Kaufmann and Corso on Coast-to-Coast talking about their experiences with these highly classified projects, spilling their guts for the world. What struck me was that Corso never disagreed with Kaufmann in a conflict of points, but always bowed to him because Kaufmann claimed to have been on the original retrieval. Kaufmann has been found to be a fraud, inventing his tale. Seems to me that Corso would have known that, had he been who he claimed to be. I read Corso's claim about his friend and understood that Corso was a major and the friend a sergeant who had invited Corso to bowl with his team. However, it's also a stretch to understand how a convoy leaving Roswell would pass close to Ft. Riley on its way to Wright Field in Ohio, or how an NCO, a sergeant of the guard, would be out among the classified boxes or why he would be digging through them. This is a serious breach of security, not to mention the fact that the boxes should have been in a locked area with guards posted outside it, not inside, going through the material. I suppose it will do no good to point out that the FBI (another of those hated government institutions that lie about everyone) noted, about Corso, "He has been a thorn in our side because of self-initiated rumors, idle gossip and downright lies he has spread to more or less perpetuate his own reputation as an intelligence expert." Corso claimed in a sworn statement that one of his Army assignments had been to the National Security Council during the Eisenhower Administration and that he attended NSC meetings. Stan Friedman checked with the Eisenhower Library and was told that such claims were false. Of course, this is just another government agency changing the records. >>Cliff Stone managed to rise in rank to E-7, not all that >>impressive for a military career that lasted more than twenty >>years. In an article published in UFO magazine (Vol 13, No 6, >>1998, and no, I"m not going to type in the article for two >>reasons! one, it's too long and two, that would be a violation >>of copyright) Stone claims that he had "never been trained as a >>clerk typist," yet his service record shows that about his only >>training in the Army (other than basic training) was as a clerk >>typist. He attended school at the USATC for eight weeks and was >>awarded the military occupation speciality (MOS) of "Clktypist >>71B in 1968. He took an advanced NCO school for five weeks in >>1982 and a one week school labeled as "headstart" in 1989. So, >>in other words, about the only training he did have was as a >>typist. His assignments, throughout his military career have one >>thing in common. They are all labeled as clerk or admin. None of >>the strange assignments he claimed and no holes in his record >>for such assignments. Oh, yes, his records were altered. I >>forgot. >If Stone was recruited to work as a specialist for the retrieval >of crashed disks as he claims, that wouldn't appear on his army >record since it would have been a compartmentalised black >project. As for altering records for those working in such >projects, I would argue that is standard security procedure for >compartmentalised black projects. The Project Manager for each >project would be responsible for security and could easily make >it mandatory for a servicemen's record not to include anything >that would hint of the kind of specialized training Stone claims >to have received. It would make sense to have Stone's service >record include him training as a typist, when he in fact was >being trained for the retreival of ETVs. But then, most of the training, even when dealing with sensitive subjects, is noted. Assignments might be carefully noted to protect the sensitivity of them, but there are always some hints about them. No such hints in Stone's record. His assignments and training are all consistent with a clerk or admin specialist. >>He claims, in this article that this did not stop him "from >>various times crawling out through our, what we called a "kill >>zone" which was 300 meters that was cleared in our perimeter all >>the way around the base camp. When crawling out of that kill >>zone, at nights and every now and then, I"d run into an enemy >>patrol or something of this sort and I would actually find >>myself shooting at the enemy and the enemy shooting at me." >>What utter crap! Where were the perimeter guards while he was >>crawling through the wire? Don Ecker, in that same issue of the >>magazine wrote, "This is where I think Stone's story breaks >>down: The idea that a single, unaccompanied American soldier >>would go crawling out through the wire, by himself, to play tag >>with the NVA or VC , and not have any sanctions from above >>strikes me as patently ridiculous." >There may be some inconsistency in Stone's story about his >Vietnam experience, but you seize upon that as hard evidence >that he is fabricating his war experiences and someone not to be >trustred. This appears to me to be another red herring you are >raising. Since you accuse me of being a courtroom attorney, let me point out that this goes to the credibility of the witness. If his wartime experiences are fabricated, then we must look carefully at his other claims. How many of those are also exaggerated? These are not red herrings, but issues that are important to the case and it is the sort of thing that the media and the public will look at carefully. And, I will note that you have offered nothing to counter these allegations. You only suggest that these are red herrings. >>The first time I met Stone in his home in Roswell, he tried to >>convince us of his importance by going out to his car to >>retrieve some "Top Secret" documents. He carried them through >>the living room so that we could see the cover sheets on them. >>If he had left top secret material in his car, then he was going >>to jail. He also pointed to the sticker on his car noting that >>it was blue, suggesting to us that he was actually an officer. >>What he didn't know is that I knew that system had been changed >>so that all the stickers were blue and it was the small strip >>under it that denoted the rank. Stone's was the proper color for >>an NCO. I could go on listing Stone's claim to have been at the >>Kecksburg UFO crash recovery to his viewing (through a hole in >>the curtains) of the largely discredited alien autopsy film but >>what is the point? >Again, I don't see any major issue here. Just some >inconsistencies you identify that you blow up as hard evidence >that he is fabricating his testimony and not to be trusted. An inconsistency that would be of little importance is Stone's claim that he spent four years in Vietnam when his record shows only three and a half. He has five overseas bars, one awarded for each six months in a combat zone which adds up to two and a half years. Much of the time he was assigned to the US Army Pacific, but might not have actually been in Vietnam. This is really a very minor thing and I mention it only to show what is minor and what is not. Now, we have Stone carrying some with a top secret cover sheet through his living room. That is pure showboating because you just don't transport top secret material that way. He was attempting, through this little show, to prove how important he was. It was the same thing, pointing out the sticker on his car and suggesting that officers had blue stickers and he had a blue sticker. It was an attempt to increase his credibility by suggesting he was something that he was not. Neither of these points is trivial, as you suggest. >>Let's talk about Bob Dean, a very likable man who rose to the >>highest enlisted grade of command sergeant-major, not an easy >>thing to do. Very few people reach that rank. However, his story >>of how he saw The Assessment (at least in one version) smacks of >>hoax. He said that he was the NCOIC at the command post one >>night and was having trouble staying awake. The OIC pulled The >>Assessment out of the Top Secret vault and gave it to Dean with >>the instruction to read it. That would keep him awake. Top >>secret documents are just not routinely handed to people to keep >>them awake. >At best there may be a minor discrepancy in what Dean was >relating here about what when and how he was told about, The >Assessment. Dean was part of the intelligence briefing team for >General Lyman 'Linditser' (?) who was the Supreme Allied >Commander in Europe (SACEUR). Dean claimed to have a Cosmic Top >Secret clearance as part of his job so anything he saw was very >highly classified. I find it ridiculous to assert that the >Assessment would have been a hoax that he and others on the >briefing team had been instructed to read in different shifts in >order to stay awake. Dean describes the circumstances around >reading the Assesment in an interview at: >http://www.planetarymysteries.com/hieronimus/bobdean.html. I >think your idea that the Assessment was a hoax designed to keep >Dean and others awake is another red herring. Why would Dean be on an intelligence briefing team? He had no special training for that. His records show that from mid-1963 to mid-1967 he was at NATO as a master sergeant assigned as the Chief Clerk Language Service Branch which is hardly the same as being an intelligence analyst, a position for which he was not trained. His record shows no assignments as an intelligence analyst. There is nothing classified about the general training, and in fact, for those who have access to the Army's Distance Learning Training Facility (meaning it's on-line), training for an intelligence analyst is available. So, if Dean's claim was accurate, the training would be in his record, but if the assignment was classified, it would show a generic assignment. I didn't say that The Assessment was a hoax designed to keep people awake. I said that Dean claimed in Roswell that he was on duty at 2 in the morning in NATO's War Room and was having trouble staying awake. Then, in a colossal breach of security, "an Air Force bird colonel thumped it down on my desk" In an interview published in the winter 1995-96 issue of UFO Update AZ magazine, Dean went a little farther saying, "this Air Force controller, a bird colonel" pulled this thing out of the vault and he said, =E2=80=98Here, read this.' This will wake you up." So, in this version, the document was completed, in the vault, and was given to Dean by an Air Force officer who wanted him to stay awake. A very cavalier way to treat top secret material. I am surprised that (a) the vault was opened that late at night, (b) the Air Force colonel could just waltz in and remove whatever he wanted, and (c) he would gave this thing to a master sergeant for late night and exciting reading. So, according to Dean here, and to Dean's assignment at NATO, he had no need-to-know. >>In another version, Dean suggested that when he arrived at SHAPE >>for a tour there, he learned the study was already underway and >>that having the required clearance, he often studied the pages >>while passing time in the quiet evenings. Except that having the >>required clearance didn't automatically give him a Need to Know, >>and without that, he wouldn't have had access to the document. >>His position at SHAPE certainly didn't require that he be >>brought in on something like The Assessment. >If Dean was an intelligence analyst on the briefing team to the >SACEUR staff, then he would have had a 'need to know', and thus >access to the document. The key part of that sentence is if Dean was an intelligence analyst, for which we have no evidence. Therefore, he wouldn't have had the need-to-know, and therefore had no access to the document. >>But, like so much of the whistleblowers" testimony, Dean's >>breaks down because there is no corroboration for it, and in >>fact, there are some very disturbing aspects are it. Dean told >>researcher Tim Good that Fred Hoyle had worked as a consultant >>to The Assessment. When asked about this, Hoyle wrote that there >>wasn't an element of truth to the story. >If Hoyle was brought in as a consultant for a highly classified >"Cosmic" document, I would hardly expect him to divulge this to >UFO researchers such as Good. Hoyle would be breaking whatever >security oath he had taken, and risking whatever privileges he >had while working as a consultant if he told Good about the >existence of the Assessment. But you would expect Dean to divulge this information to UFO researchers. But Hoyle wasn't the only one Dean identified as having the same inside knowledge and all denied that The Assessment even existed" >>Compare this to the response of Robert Sarbacher, who, when >>asked about his touch with the crashed saucers story, told all >>who wrote or called that he did have some limited knowledge of >>it and that he had been quoted correctly in the past. >>There are other problems. Dean claimed that the French had >>duplicated The Assessment before giving it back to NATO and then >>had given it to the Research group G.E.P.A.N., except that the >>French left NATO in 1967 and G.E.P.A.N didn't exist at that >>time. The conclusion of Good's investigation was that The >>Assessment, as described by Dean, did not exist. Please note >>here that Tim Good is a UFO researcher and would not be party to >>the cover up. He would be at the front shouting about it, if it >>existed in this case. >France left the integrated command structure of NATO in 1967, >but has never left NATO and remains a member. I would have to >see what Good said before I comment on it. >>So, here we are, with three of the whistleblowers whose stories >>do not check out, with documentation that suggests they are not >>who they claim to be, and who can produce no hard evidence that >>they were where they claimed or saw what they claimed and about >>whom the evidence suggests they have been less than honest. Just >>why should we take anything that they say seriously? >I think all you have demonstrated is that you have similar >competence to a courtroom attorney intent on dismissing the >credibility of testimonies that you don't want the judge/jury to >consider in a case where one's substantive arguments are quite >weak. You bring up a number of red herrings that distract >attention from the substance of the claims that Dean, Stone and >Corso raise. One can quibble all day over the credibility of >these and other whistleblowers based on minor inconsistencies or >anomalies in their service records as you have done. However, if >one accepts that a 'hard cover up' is underway, then logic >dictates that the absence of hard evidence does not negate >considering the actual content of these and other whistleblower >testimonies. I have brought up no red herrings, but related factual information that you choose to dismiss out of hand or by suggesting they are trivial points. Yet every one goes to the credibility of the people making the wild claims about crashed UFOs and their supported service to the government on these classified projects. Yet none of them can present any evidence that what they say is true. Well, the records have been altered. Well, agents come in the night and point guns at me (as Stone has told me on several occasions, threatening to shoot him, but always allowing him to go home). Well, all these others are lying because this was highly classified. When I interviewed Colonel Edwin Easley, who had been the provost marshal at Roswell in 1947, he didn't deny the event took place, but told me he couldn't talk about it. He confirmed those things that he believed were unclassified, such as Mack Brazel being held in the base guest house, but he didn't flatly deny anything. Yet with Dean and the others, those in positions to know flatly deny everything. We find no corroboration at all. Doesn't that strike you as just a little bit odd? >If we don't take whistleblowers seriously, then a whole category >of evidence will be effectively ignored making the task of >finding out what is really happening in the classified world of >alleged ETVs/EBEs that much harder, and probably delay >disclosure for some time yet. I don't share the faith of the >nuts and bolts specialists that doggedly continuing with >whatever hard evidence they can find will eventually yield the >Rosetta Stone for understanding the UFO phenomenon. That I >believe is what distinguishes political realism from religious >science. But to take them seriously, we much find them to have been in a position to know what they claimed and we must have some kind of corroboration for them. In these three cases, and in many others that simply does not exist. You then suggest that proves them to be honest. To me it suggests they are telling tales and have found a willing listener. KRandle Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:32:33 -0400 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:12:49 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >>>>What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >>>>discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >>>>Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >>>>all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >>>>enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >>>>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>>>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. >>>Huh? >>Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? >>>Answer - none.> >>>Therefore it would have been difficult if not impossible for >>>Betty to spend all her time reading books on UFO abductions. >>Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? >>I think it's a lot of both. He uses the same old tired debunking >>tricks with absolutely no real research. >Resorting to insults shows how threatened the believers are to >any criticism. Calling people morons because they do not believe >in alien abductions or vice versa is far from constructive. I didn't resort to insults because Sekulich does not believe in alien abductions. I suggested he has "problems in understanding" (such as being an idiot) because he didn't get the story straight, as if he modified the story to make it agree with his belief in no abductions. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Secrecy News -- 04/21/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:48:39 -0400 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:13:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 04/21/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 38 April 21, 2005 ** COURT CLOSES HEARING ON SIBEL EDMONDS CASE ** SOME RECENT CRS REPORTS ** REMEMBERING MARLA RUZICKA ** REMEMBERING CHUCK HANSEN COURT CLOSES HEARING ON SIBEL EDMONDS CASE The U.S. Court of Appeals today barred public access to an unclassified hearing in the appeal of a lawsuit brought by FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds. The unexpected action was reportedly taken at the Court's own volition, not at the request of the government, and seemed intended to suppress media coverage of the hearing rather than to protect classified information. (Members of Ms. Edmonds' legal team who do not hold security clearances were not excluded from the hearing.) The decision to close the hearing was challenged yesterday by emergency motions from the ACLU, which represents Ms. Edmonds, the Project on Government Oversight and several other public interest and media organizations. An April 20 ACLU news release, with a link to the motion to open the hearing, is here: http://tinyurl.com/9xesd But all of the motions were promptly denied by the Court today before the oral arguments commenced behind closed doors. See the ruling here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/04/usca042105.pdf Following today's hearing, the ACLU issued this news release: http://tinyurl.com/9u5kx Sibel Edmonds' web site is here: http://www.justacitizen.com/ SOME RECENT CRS REPORTS Some recent publications of the Congressional Research Service include the following. "Defense Transformation: Background and Oversight Issues for Congress," updated April 4, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32238.pdf "Computer Attack and Cyberterrorism: Vulnerabilities and Policy Issues for Congress," updated April 1, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/RL32114.pdf "Immigration: Terrorist Grounds for Exclusion of Aliens," updated March 30, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL32564.pdf "Aviation Security-Related Findings and Recommendations of the 9/11 Commission," updated March 30, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL32541.pdf REMEMBERING MARLA RUZICKA Marla Ruzicka, the 28 year old relief worker and activist who was killed in Iraq last week, was movingly remembered by Senator Pat Leahy on the Senate floor. See his statement here: http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200504/041805a.html On Monday, USA Today published an op-ed by Ms. Ruzicka which included the remarkable assertion that, contrary to some official claims, the U.S. military has compiled statistics on the number of Iraqi civilians killed in the course of the war there. See "Aid worker's words--just a week before she was killed," USA Today, April 18 (flagged by the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, www.rcfp.org): http://tinyurl.com/bl9up REMEMBERING CHUCK HANSEN Chuck Hansen, who died two years ago, was a pioneering investigator of the history of nuclear weapons development. He was author of "U.S. Nuclear Weapons: The Secret History," now a coveted collector's item, and of the documentary collection "Swords of Armageddon" (www.uscoldwar.com). He was also an exceptionally skilled and persistent practitioner of the art of Freedom of Information Act requests. In one memorable case, a FOIA request from Hansen triggered an FBI investigation -- of him! His request regarding a particular matter of sensitive nuclear history was so precisely crafted that the FBI suspected him of having unauthorized access to classified information, which he didn't. ("File a FOIA Request and Meet the FBI," Secrecy and Government Bulletin, Issue 32, Feb/Mar 1994). Recently, FOIA requester Michael Ravnitzky asked the Department of Energy for records concerning Chuck Hansen, such as official investigations or assessments of his work. At first, Mr. Ravnitzky's request was denied. But on appeal, DOE last month agreed to release a redacted version of a report about Hansen that was prepared for the Department in 1982. In what might be viewed as a back-handed tribute to Mr. Hansen, however, the report's 16 pages are almost entirely blanked out. "The information that the DOE continues to withhold concerns nuclear weapons design that is currently classified as Restricted Data," the DOE appeals panel explained. A copy of the material released to Mr. Ravnitzky by DOE on March 21, 2005 is here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/chansen.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood.nul voice: (202) 454-4691 Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:14:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:11:06 +0200 >Subject: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >Does anyone know, or have a way of telling me, whether those >USOs seen under/near water are different than the ones seen in >the air? Do they have a particular shape, or are they any or >all shapes? Hi Diana, Have you tried http://www.waterufo.net/ Terry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Eleanor White<eleanor.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:44:30 -0400 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:14:55 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >Source: The Epoch Times >http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-4-16/27911.html >Apr 16, 2005 >Scientific and Historical Anomalies - The Engineered Moon >By Will Barkley <snip> >+ Seismic data from moonquakes tell us that the moon >reverberates like a bell up to several hours after an initial >shock. This data also indicates that the moon is a hollow sphere >because the shockwaves travel along the surface but not into the >interior of the moon. Has anyone calculated "how hollow" the moon could be and still produce the rather substantial ocean tides down here? Eleanor White Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:48:50 -0500 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:15:36 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:40:40 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >>>Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? >>>I think it's a lot of both. He uses the same old tired debunking >>>tricks with absolutely no real research. >>Resorting to insults... >Yes, regrettable... always regrettable... forever regrettable... >but in this case also ~reflexively~ regrettable and so then >somewhat less regrettable, even understandable, and for my money >laudable. Was this a little too much on our first encounter, >Sir? Sorry. >Any institutional memory on this subject at all demonstrates >that the very best the card-carrying klasskurtzian pelicanist >(and please find it in your offended sensibilities to forgive >that easily bestowed, but identifying, appellation) ...can throw >is batted well out of the debated park by their citation >providing opposition. That the rationally dismissible points of >the former can be raised again and again, year after year in the >same uninformed, arrogant, and portentous manner without an >equal outrage on your part... provokes somthing of an outrage in >me, to be sure. >>...shows how threatened... >Maybe not threatened so much as exasperated, intellectually >insulted, or, ethically outraged. We'll forget for a moment the >implication, above, that the positions of your obvious >opposition are remotely assailable to begin with, and that we've >a collective fear that our flim-flammery is, at base, >unsupported, and would be found out. ...That in a hard, harsh >light we know that we are exposed, and so duplicitous... and so >concoct insult and ad hominum to cover our weak flanks and dodgy >theories... >How is it then that it is _us_ (as it has always been) who call >for that hard harsh light (your side only makes reference to) >which is not forthcoming? >Again! Is there quality information with regard to UFOs that is hidden >from the rank and file individual? Almost certainly! The huge volume >of _extant_ evidence is of a quality that cannot be forever ignored... >still, you'd seem to want to try. >Verily, the quality anecdotal evidence, compounded with the >vetted photographic evidence, and then added to the documented >historical evidence, gives _every_ indication that a ufological >contention regarding that phenomena _must_ be more real than >not... Moreover, when the preceding is framed by the serious >artistic evidence, qualified by the available physical evidence, >and then compellingly buttressed by the conclusively personal >evidence, I can only be annoyingly astonished by the continued >reluctance of _some_ to face the highly strange music that just >cannot be -forever- marginalized... Does the information >available justify attention by the mainstream to perform a more >'in depth' investigation of UFOs? Absolutely! >Still - 50 years later we'd have to deal with the giggles provoked >by non-believers... to wit: >>...the believers ... >We'll forget for a moment, too, that you airily address persons >on this List who 'believe' in UFOs and abduction the same way >you 'believe' in pissants falling into the gravity well of a >neutron star (Nice twist, eh Doc?). We'll forget, too, that the >appellation is insulting, in as much as it connotes the infirm, >the credulous, and the mouth-breathing fringe. >Who's the believer, Sir? He who believes the official past that >never was, or he who believes the future is beyond belief? >>...are to any criticism. >Any _illogical_ criticism, any _non-constructive_ criticism, any >_inconsistent_ criticism, any _repressive_ criticism, any >_already discredited_ criticism, any _incomplete_ criticism, any >_fallacious_ criticism, any _mal-critical_ criticism, any >_partisan_ criticism... I won't go on, but I could. >>Calling people morons because they do not believe >>in alien abductions or vice versa is far from constructive. >On the face of it, you would be right. But your relevancy, not >unlike beauty, is only skin deep, Mr. Watson. It remains that >our poor Mr. Sakulich is something less that informed, is more >than willing to pronounce authoritatively on that ignorance, and >is in no way willing to bring himself up to speed with regard to >an ameliorization of that ignorance. This would make Mr. >Sakulich, at _best_ a moron, Sir. >At worst? Alfred: While what you write, above, is closer to reality than what Aaron Sakulich wrote (about the Hill abduction), I bet if we put your missive alongside what Mr. Sakulich wrote, before a group of academes or a common-sense group of the great unwashed, both sets would accept Sakulich's pronouncements and eschew yours as ravings of UFO kind. That's the plight of ufologists: trying to make sense and be sensible about the phenomenon, while the Sakulich's of the world go for the jugular, and score points - rightfully or wrongfully. Your poetic license aside, Mr. Sakulich makes sense; you don't, not in the mind of the "normal" person. And while I get what you're saying, most do not, sorry to say. Rich Reynolds Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:15 EDT Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:16:20 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >>>>Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >>>>UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>By Aaron Sakulich >>>>Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >>>>The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents >>>>of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 >>>>September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. >>>>They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did >>>>they know that they would be returning to terror! <snip> >>>>What the average UFO enthusiast will try to leave out of any >>>>discussion of this case is that, from the starting line, Betty >>>>Hill was 100% certain she'd been abducted by aliens. This isn't >>>>all that surprising, since she was a paranormal and cult >>>>enthusiast herself: When you spend most of your free time >>>>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>>>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. >>>Huh? >>>Just how many books on alien abduction were there in 1961? >>>Answer - none. >>>Therefore it would have been difficult if not impossible for >>>Betty to spend all her time reading books on UFO abductions. >>Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? >>I think it's a lot of both. He uses the same old tired debunking >>tricks with absolutely no real research. >Resorting to insults shows how threatened the believers are to >any criticism. Calling people morons because they do not believe >in alien abductions or vice versa is far from constructive. Well you _are_ a moron Nigel if you believe there were any "books on UFO abductions" published as of 1961, or if you cannot read plain English alleging such a ridiculous explanation of the Hill case. Go and read the few lines of quoted text - you know, the stuff with the quotes >>> above. Then read it again. Here, let me help you by re-quoting the moronic claim below: >>>>When you spend most of your free time >>>>reading books on UFO abductions, there's a rather good chance >>>>you'll end up thinking you were abducted yourself. The Hill case was the first known US abduction. How then were there any "books on UFO abductions" for Betty Hill to be reading and to supposedly fabricate or confabulate her story from? Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:16:58 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:15:03 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear ><snip> >>Resorting to insults shows how threatened the believers are to >>any criticism. Calling people morons because they do not believe >>in alien abductions or vice versa is far from constructive. >I don't think that Bruce really offered that as an insult, but >rather as an actual question. <snip> Hi Steve and Nigel, The insult is deserved. If I were to write an article ridiculing those that actually believe all that "quantum physics" prattle, and post it to a physics forum with nothing behind my comments except my own untrained, uninformed, and uninvited opinion, I would be shocked not to be insulted, ridiculed, and laughed back into the obscurity from whence I emerged. So it is with young Aaron. Sakulich represents the ultimate insult to anyone who seriously studies UFOs in general, and those familiar with the particulars of the Hill case specifically. He thinks he can read an article in 'PSICOP Times' and is therefore adequately equipped to utter an opinion. In the end, Aaron is that most paradoxical of creatures... a pundit with a pulpit who speaks authoritatively on subjects in which he holds no authority, understanding or even rudimentary knowledge. I can only assume that Aaron's middle name begins with an S. T'would explain much, and excuse nothing. Best, Kyle Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:53:18 -0400 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:17:38 -0500 Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:04:53 +0100 >Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:39:22 -0400 >>Subject: Re: OVNI 'Skywriting'? >>I have recruited some help. I want to look at all of the >>recorded material to see if there are any other examples of >>these 'formations' that resemble the glyphs/letters that myself >>and several other abductees reproduced for Budd. ><snip> >>Posting them to the List for peer review >>and feedback seems to be a waste of time and an exercise in >>futility. For example, Nick Balaskas, one of the few genuine >>academics on the List sees only birds! (?) Nobody else has any >>comment or seems to know what to make of it. >>Again, I appreciate your taking the time to have a look-see. If >>anything else comes up, I'll zap you a line. >Hi John, >FY possible I, here is my original RADCAT entry on a >maybe-relevant 1954 series of radar and visual incidents with >aerial "glyphs": >=================== >DATE: >Oct/Nov 1954 >TIME: approx. noon >CLASS: R ground radar >LOCATION: UK >SOURCES: Good ATS 1987 36, FSR CH 15 June 73 3 & n.p6 >RADAR DURATION: unspecified >EVALUATION: No official >PRECIS: According to a War Office statement a few days after the >events, radars in an undisclosed area of the UK registered >"formations" of unidentified echoes on 6 occasions from late >October to early November 1954. The story was covered by >numerous British and European newspapers. A government spokesman >quoted in the Sunday Dispatch, November 7, stated: >"We cannot say what they are. They first appear in a 'U', or >badly shaped hairpin, formation. After a time they converge into >two parallel lines and then take up a 'Z' formation before >disappearing. They are invisible to the human eye, but on the >radar screen they appear as lots and lots of dots formed by >between 40 and 50 echoes. They cover an area in the sky miles >long and miles wide. >"Every time they have been seen they followed the same >pattern. It was always around midday. We have checked and found >that our sets are not faulty. We are still maintaining a watch. <snip> Hello Martin, Right out of the box I'd like to thank you for taking the time to compose this interesting and informative response. At least you took the time to actually think about it. Puts you miles ahead of the 'pack.' ;) Thank you, good read. >Hope that's of some use to you. Rereading this I was also >reminded of some of the reported "Lubbock light" formations - >'U' and ,V' shapes. It may or may not be coincidence that birds >and/or insects were indicted by some people in that case too - >but the status of that case is a real can of worms in my >opinion That's what I thought of this! But the 'coincidence', if that is what it is, is so remarkable that I dared not judge its value or relevance by myself. So I put it out there for a little peer feedback. Jaime Maussan has very kindly taken the time to assemble a compilation of these 'fleet/cluster' videos for me and it is on its way to me as we speak. I hope to be able to review them, (with a little help from my friends,) to see if any more of these formations turn up. I also need to carefully review the video-clip that spawned the single frame capture that I used in my illustration. I need to determine if the objects 'navigated' into position and then 'held static' the formation shown in the single frame of video. (that was posted at the Portuguese website that hosted the video-clips online.) This 'Z' formation business comes up in a UFO report for the third time now. Norm Himmel provided us with one that Bill Weber posted to the List for us. I can't wait to check out the video that Jaime is sending. I have no idea what to make of any of this. I'll tell you this much though, I will freak right out of my skin if I find any more direct correlations to those 'glyphs' (the ones the abductees recorded for Budd,) Man, I so wish that Stuart Appelle had been able to complete that study on the 'alien' writing samples. Abduction research has yet to move a pawn off of/beyond the second rank. Thanks again, Martin. Excellent read, great info. I'll let you know if anything turns during our perusal of the footage that Jaime is sending. Regards to all, John Velez Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:18:37 +0000 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:18:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:11:06 +0200 >Subject: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >Does anyone know, or have a way of telling me, whether those >USOs seen under/near water are different than the ones seen in >the air? Do they have a particular shape, or are they any or all >shapes? Diana, I don't think there is any difference at all. See: www.waterufo.com (I think I have that url right). - Dick Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Hi-RISE Camera Looks For Beagle 2 From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:20:26 -0700 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:18:49 -0500 Subject: Hi-RISE Camera Looks For Beagle 2 Source: SpaceNews.com http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-future-05k.html Apr 18, 2005 Rich Zurek And The Mystery Of The Disappearing Spacecraft San Diego CA (SPX) --Imagine if the illustrious Sherlock Holmes lived in modern times. He might decide to take on the challenge of solving the mysterious disappearance of the Beagle 2, a British spacecraft that vanished without a trace after entering the atmosphere of Mars on Christmas Day, 2003. Malin Space Science Systems of San Diego looked for signs of the lost spacecraft in early 2004. Scrutinizing images from a camera the company built for NASA's Mars Global Surveyor orbiter, Malin researchers detected an unfamiliar black spot on the surface of the planet. Alas, after using special software to improve photographic detail, Malin's optical experts concluded that the spot was an eroded meteor crater with some dark-colored sand on the crater floor. Based on the evidence, one might surmise that Beagle 2 never made it to Mars. Rich Zurek, however, is something of a modern-day, scientific Sherlock who wants more clues about both Beagle 2 and a lost US spacecraft, Mars Polar Lander. As project scientist for the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, he knows that just because we don't see it, doesn't necessarily mean it's not there. Scientific Sherlock Seeks Clues An atmospheric scientist by training, Zurek appears an honest sort of fellow, with friendly blue eyes, slightly bushy eyebrows, a receding hairline, and a scientist's penchant for describing things in great detail. His eyes appear even more penetrating than usual when they match the blue shirt he is wearing. "On Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, we're going to have the biggest 'magnifying glass' possible," Zurek explains. "If there are clues, we're going to find them." Zurek is firmly resolved to conduct some intensive detective work. "We all know how hard it is to get to Mars," Zurek related. "The worst is not quite knowing what happened. We really felt for our European colleagues, because we've been through it ourselves. We know how painful it is to lose a spacecraft that you've dedicated so many years to build." In 1999, the U.S. sent Mars Polar Lander, but it too never made it successfully to the surface. In fact, two-thirds of all international missions to the red planet have failed. It isn't trivial getting spacecraft safely to a planet that is hundreds of thousands of miles away, and solving some of the mysteries surrounding those that were lost will help future missions be successful. Largest Magnifying Glass Possible Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter will use three cameras to look at geology and search for lost landers. "In effect, it's like having a planetary microscope," explains Zurek. "You start with low magnification and switch to increasingly higher magnification for a closer look." As the spacecraft circles the planet 12 times a day, the Mars Color Imager, or MARCI for short, will take large-scale snapshots. A MARCI image might reveal a volcano, a few large craters, several smaller craters, a canyon, and some flat areas. Next, a Context Camera image will zoom in farther, perhaps showing some meandering channels that weren't clearly visible in the MARCI image. Finally, the Hi-RISE camera will provide the most detailed view of the surface. Hi-RISE is the most powerful camera on the spacecraft in terms of the smallness of the features that will be visible. >From space, it can take pictures of objects on the surface of Mars that are about the size of a small dining room table. A HiRISE image might reveal a large flat ledge next to one of the canyons. On top of that ledge might be a small dark object, perhaps the missing spacecraft. "Of course," Zurek cautions, "the three-foot-wide Beagle 2 still may be too small for our cameras to see, unless it left a telltale track in the martian soil." Looking for a Mineral "Fingerprint" Undaunted, Zurek continues: "There may be another potential line of investigation." The Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars, or CRISM for short, will identify minerals on the surface of Mars. If Beagle crashed into the surface and churned up a rather large area of soil in the process, CRISM might find signs of different minerals in the newly exposed subsurface that don't match those of the surrounding terrain. "It would be like having a mineral fingerprint pointing to the spot where Beagle 2 landed," Zurek said. Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter will begin looking for these clues when it arrives at the red planet and settles into its orbit in 2006. Stay tuned! Copyright 1995-2005 - SpaceDaily Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? From: Carl Feindt <waterufo.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:19:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:11:06 +0200 >Subject: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >Does anyone know, or have a way of telling me, whether those >USOs seen under/near water are different than the ones seen in >the air? Do they have a particular shape, or are they any or >all shapes? Hello Diana, This is my 'obsession' - see my: http://www.waterufo.net site. The answer is _no_ there is no difference - they are one and the same. They just do things we do not expect 'normal' things to do. Of course - now the question is why you asked the question? and I _have_ to know the answer - _why_ did you ask the question? For privacy offline - go through my website to "contact us" or through this List if you don't mind the rest of the curious knowing. Best, Carl Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:10:32 -0500 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:20:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:11:06 +0200 >Subject: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >Does anyone know, or have a way of telling me, whether those >USOs seen under/near water are different than the ones seen in >the air? Do they have a particular shape, or are they any or all >shapes? I've been reading Paul Hill's book Unconventional Flying Objects, and he posits that the means of propulsion in the air would be also very useful through a liquid. So, it seems possible that USOs are sometimes the same objects as UFO's. J. Craig Beasley Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO From: Dwight Connelly <publishdc.nul> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:15:46 -0500 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:21:07 -0500 Subject: Re: MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:50:30 -0400 >Subject: UFO UpDate: MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO Fraud >Source: UFO Watchdog >http://www.ufowatchdog.com/ware.html >19-APR-05 >MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO Fraud >Donald Ware Says 'Dr. Reed' Book Is "Documentation Of An >Important Event", Calls UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Disinformation Agents" <snip> Don Ware - a very nice man - is not MUFON State Director for Florida. He was with MUFON several years ago, and did some good work, but his interests and MUFON's diverged, and he is no longer connected with MUFON, so far as I am aware. I would have thought that Don was too intelligent to buy into the Reed case, but..... As for that 'case', it is another example of instant fame via talk radio and amazingly easy deceit - why check the validity of guests when they are so interesting - along with too many people willing to believe just about anything. I have talked with Reed, and he even showed me the alleged entry hole of an alleged bullet (but refused to show the exit hole that was supposedly present). For the gullible, he is convincing. But as those who have carefully looked at the "case" point out, there is nothing to it, except deceit. Smoke and mirrors. Dwight Connelly Editor MUFON UFO Journal Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 03:19:17 -0700 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:21:47 -0500 Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:25:02 +0100 >Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:42:59 -0700 >>Subject: Re: How UFO Sighting Baffled X-Files Team <snip> >>Hello Isaac and thanks much! You helped more than you may have >>thought. >No sweat Larry. Cutting and pasting existing references from >the footnotes to my draft Chronology only takes a moment or two. <snip> >>Notably, the 2 policemen had mistook Venus for a "flying >>cross",but still accepted the astronomer's >>explanation later. I'd like to know how that happens. >>Venus as a 'ball of light' seems more plausible. >By now, you'll have read Martin Shough's views on this which >may well have presented all the information you wanted. Just in >case, I thought it worth mentioning that several researchers >have commented on the fact that Venus has been reported by >witnesses as appearing to have the shape of a cross (or some >similar shape), and not merely as a "ball of light". Some >relevant comments relating to Venus as a cause of UFO/IFO >reports include (making use of a few references cut and pasted >from a footnote in a draft "Explanations" document): >(a) Jenny Randles in her "UFO Study" (1981) : "... Venus is <snip> >(b) Allan Hendry in his "The UFO Handbook" (1979) : "... > Proximity to the horizon resulted in distortion effects ... > artificially elongating the shape of Venus" and "Appearance : > ... Shape and apparent size subject to atmospheric distortion" > ... witnesses claimed they could see a shape even though they >described the apparent size of the star as normal. ... People >have seen 'spikes', 'beams', 'appendages,' and sparkles shooting >out in all directions from bright stars" (at page 28, in Chapter A sobering thought. I wonder how many "saucers, cigars etc." were point sources of light in the sky .. >(c) "... four leaf clover" shaped light identified as Venus in >Case 37 in the Condon Report. See the relevant case study >online at the following link: >http://ncas.sawco.com/condon/text/case37.htm <snip> >(By way of a rather minor experiment, I paid more attention >than usual to the aeroplane lights visible in the sky through >my lounge window the other night with Larry's query in mind. >The brighter lights were quite visibly distorted. They had an >appearance which was not merely a round "ball of light", but >more like a ball of light with "beams" or "extensions" >appearing to extend from the ball in four directions: up, down, >left and right.) >One of the members of this List whose knowledge of physics is >not as rusty as my own (or someone that is more interested in >optical/atmospheric issues) might well be able to explain why >bright point-sources may be described as having such an >appearance. The books by Hendry and Randles mentioned above are >excellent as sources of the variety of descriptions of different >IFOs, but are slightly less useful as authoritative explanations >of the causes of the relevant distortions of shape, movement, >size etc. >I've quickly re-read "Oberserving UFOs" (1980) by Richard >Haines looking for relevant discussion. I'd hoped to find a >more detailed explanation in that book since it is dedicated to >the perceptual problems relating to UFO reports. However, >although there are lengthy and detailed sections on (for >example) the appearances of reflections from different >surfaces, my very quick review of re-reading of the book only >resulted in my finding a section which explains why >bright non-round objects may appear round (at page 243 in >Chapter 15 of the Nelson Hall softcover edition) and a >suggestion that astigmatism can cause a point source of light >to appear to have spikes (at pages 196-197 in Chapter 12). A very good resource. <snip> >>Neither of my sources gave the Venus finding, just the original >>mystery. Do any of the sources on your long list cite Venus or >>mention the astronomer? >Several of the sources discuss Venus as a possible explanation, >with a divergence of views as to the merits of this >explanation. <snip> >"It seemed that all the objects seen in the sky during October >25, 26 and 27, the nights of the flap, could be attributed to >the planet Venus which astronomers at the Royal Observatory, >Herstmonceux, Sussex said was extremely bright in the eastern >sky in the early morning at this time of year. <snip> >"The most obvious culprit, the planet Venus, was overlooked in >the press-driven melee. But the fact remained that the planet >rose in the east between 3 and 4 am and was shining brightly at >precisely the time the policeman saw their UFO. Venus was also >the solution put forward by the Plymouth Astronomical Society >and aircrew from RAF Clivenor, who used a sextant to demonstrate >that at least one 'flying cross' was the morning planet." <snip> >(e) Good, Timothy in his "Above Top Secret" (1987) at page 64 >(in Chapter 3) of the Sidgwick & Jackson hardback edition (with >thesame page numbering in the Pan paperback edition): <snip> >Since I don't consider myself a "ufologist" (let alone a >"serious ufologist"), I won't dare speak on behalf of English >"serious ufologists"! Also, as you may have noticed, I'm far >happier offering references than opinions. Joe McGonagle's >"ufologyinuk" List is the nearest thing to a forum for "serious >ufologists" in the UK that I'm aware of, and I've never seen >anyone discuss the above sighting on that List. I'm sure Joe >wouldn't mind you raising questions such as yours for English >ufologists on his List at the following link: >http://www.smartgroups.com/group/group.cfm?GID=292370 Hello Isaac, and thanks very much! While severely snipped here, I have saved your entire message. It answers my questions, more so than I had any right to expect! I am influenced by the (apparent?) fact that the witnesses were looking right at Venus, but reported a 'UFO'. Why not both, i.e. UFO _plus_ Venus? For now at least, I have the case listed, but as a likely misidentification... there are plenty of those here. Very best wishes - Larry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 03:35:19 -0700 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:22:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:11:06 +0200 >Subject: Underwater UFOs/USOs? >Does anyone know, or have a way of telling me, whether those >USOs seen under/near water are different than the ones seen in >the air? Do they have a particular shape, or are they any or >all shapes? Hello Diana: A very good question, and I don't have any good fast answer for it. I might suggest that a streamlined shape would matter much more under water than in the air. Compare an early aeroplane to a rowboat from the same era. A good place to start looking is Carl Feindt's website: http://www.waterufo.net/ That and other good sites can be searched up using this dandy home-brew UFO search engine of mine: http://www.larryhatch.net/GIGAUFO.html I suggest search terms like shapes, water or underwater, submersible and so on. There is no need to use the word UFO in your search. Gigaufo is a UFO search by definition. Best - Larry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:26:19 +0100 (BST) Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:23:34 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: Eleanor White<eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:44:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>Source: The Epoch Times >>http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-4-16/27911.html >>Apr 16, 2005 >>Scientific and Historical Anomalies - The Engineered Moon >>By Will Barkley ><snip> >>+ Seismic data from moonquakes tell us that the moon >>reverberates like a bell up to several hours after an initial >>shock. This data also indicates that the moon is a hollow sphere >>because the shockwaves travel along the surface but not into the >>interior of the moon. >Has anyone calculated "how hollow" the moon could be and still >produce the rather substantial ocean tides down here? Hello Eleanor and List I am almost certain that these folk; http://www.brainsluice.com/miscellanea/misc/moonlanding.html will be able to answer all questions you may have on these points along with many others :-) Col colsweb.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: Can This Be Majic? From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 06:10:47 -0700 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:24:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Can This Be Majic? Exempt From Disclosure: The Disturbing Case About the UFO Coverup, by Robert M. Collins and Richard C. Doty: Christopher Green MD, PhD in Neurophysiology now at Wayne State Medical Center in Michigan relates that many years ago one of his friends Richard Helms ex CIA Director at the time told him, "Always believe what Richard Doty tells you about UFOs." Richard Helms was briefed into the subject of UFOs in the early days. He knew about Roswell and knew the involvement of the CIA from around 1950 to the 1970s. Helms knew the NSA involvement with programs to capture ET signals. =97Rick Doty About the Book Robert M. Collins and Richard C. Doty, Copyrighted 2005 by Peregrine Communications, all rights reserved. No part of the book, Exempt From Disclosure, may be reproduced stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical photocopying, recording, or otherwise, without the prior written permission of the authors; printed in the United States of America. The book will include: Richard C. Doty: Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) Counter-Intelligence. This will include the OSI investigation of Bennewitz. Los Alamos: Reverse Engineering in the Z-Division or Division Z (..) and Area 51-S4 with many hair raising documents (which were the subject of an FBI investigation) from a Confidential LANL source. Los Alamos: TA 49 underground EBE time capsule drawing with photos. Group photos of new MJ-12 Team Members and the true story of the Aviary, not the mythology. Plus other hair raising chapters focused on key players and what they knew. This is sure to raise the heat and stir up the soup on this List. http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/reports/efd_book.htm -Bill Hamilton Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:29:54 -0500 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:25:09 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:48:50 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:40:40 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear ><snip> >>>>Is this guy simply naive or just a plain idiot? <snip> >>On the face of it, you would be right. But your relevancy, not >>unlike beauty, is only skin deep, Mr. Watson. It remains that >>our poor Mr. Sakulich is something less that informed, is more >>than willing to pronounce authoritatively on that ignorance, and >>is in no way willing to bring himself up to speed with regard to >>an ameliorization of that ignorance. This would make Mr. >>Sakulich, at _best_ a moron, Sir. >>At worst? >While what you write, above, is closer to reality than what >Aaron Sakulich wrote (about the Hill abduction), I bet if we put >your missive alongside what Mr. Sakulich wrote, before a group >of academes or a common-sense group of the great unwashed, both >sets would accept Sakulich's pronouncements and eschew yours as >ravings of UFO kind. Which on the face of it seems a little patronizing, presumptive, and pompously proclaimed, Mr. Reynolds, if I may. In the preceding you ignore your own best counsel, abdicate your own better principles, show a little intellectual cowardice,and then insult persons who complain because an officious 'authority' is pissing on their leg and calling it rain. Such are the contributions of the Mr. Sakuliches of the world. That I'm "closer to reality" might be a call to ready agreement in a more perfect world, you'd think. I can well appreciate that a card carrying CSICOPian (like our Mr. Sakulich) would eschew me as a UFO raver, yet I remain decidedly... unmoved by that. I dismiss them, handily in turn, with certitude and much confidence. You see, THEY are the homocentric, the duplicitous, the cowardly, the fallacious, the ignorant, and the obstinate. It's 'them' without vision, and imagination, and scope, and reach or grasp. I would, at least, _aspire_ to these things. Moreover, I am the enemy _created_ by duplicitous governments, authoritarian institutions, and corporate agencies providing Mr.Sakulich his support and encouragement. I _would_ see them driven before me... even hear the lamentations of their intellectually diseased camp followers. And I suspect I will. I think they need me, Sir, long before I need them. Call it my own personal fantasy. They can "eschew" at their peril. My gloves are off. >That's the plight of ufologists: trying to make sense and be >sensible about the phenomenon, while the Sakulich's of the world >go for the jugular, and score points - rightfully or wrongfully. Wrong is wrong. Uninformed is uninformed (as the more pretentious pundits of your decidedly prepubescent posse over at "R" cubed regularly demonstrate... breathing examples of "open mouth, insert foot, and echo internationally..." One would think that there would be more attention given to Mr. "Sucks-so-much" and his ignorant intellectual infidelities than my "ravings" in opposition to them. Step off, pilgrim. Bearing the pregnant moniker "Alfred Emanuel Lehmberg III" accords me the authorization to make fun of any damn name I want to. Reynolds's Wrap! >Your poetic license aside, Mr. Sakulich makes sense; you don't, >not in the mind of the "normal" person. And while I get what >you're saying, most do not, sorry to say. Somehow, I suspect you're not that sorry, Mr. Reynolds, but that's okay... it's another thing not required. Moreover, normal people will treat me with the same respect I've already extended to them, whoever they are... but they're going to pull back a nub if they shine me one, play me, or otherwise piss on my leg. I'm beginning to worry about you a little bit, Mr. Reynolds. That's not good news. alienview.nul -:|:- www.AlienView.net Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 22 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:06:46 -0500 Archived: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:25:52 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:15 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:03 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul> >>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>>Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 10:19:02 -0300 >>>>>Subject: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>>Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University >>http://tinyurl.com/ajn75 >>>>>UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>>By Aaron Sakulich >>>>>Published: Friday, April 15, 2005 >>>>>The names: Betty and Barney Hill, an loving couple and residents >>>>>of the fine town of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The date: 19 >>>>>September, 1961. The place: US Route 3, a lonely country road. >>>>>They were returning from a vacation to Canada, but little did >>>>>they know that they would be returning to terror! ><snip> >The Hill case was the first known US abduction. How then were >there any "books on UFO abductions" for Betty Hill to be reading >and to supposedly fabricate or confabulate her story from? Brad: Sakulich was cavalier in his writing, which is a fault I suppose. He should have said that Betty Hill had access to materials, not books exactly (magazine articles and newspaper accounts), that might have inspired her rendition of what happened. The 1957 Villas-Boas case comes to mind, where there is a medical examination, Villas-Boas dragged into the "ship" (just as Barney Hill said he was), a of mix humanoid beings and "greys" (as Betty and Barney Hill's abductors were). etc. This either means that Mrs. Hill used the Villas-Boas case as a template for her account, or the same kind of abductors operated almost identically in both instances. Rich Reynolds Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:22:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:43:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS >From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:27:06 -0500 >Subject: Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:54:23 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS >>I took the time to examine the orbit at the time of the EVA. >>The opposite direction of the Sun would be almost in the >>direction of the coast of South America. Examining the DMSP >>lights database, strong lights seems to be coming from that area >>from both oil rig gas flares AND fishing boats. (Note that the >>DMSP database I consulted was for year 2000 and was average.) I was able to download the DMSP images for March 27, 28,29 2005 and the fishing boats lights are visible throughout the night although the pattern varies depending on where the fleet and individual ships are placed. Light cloud cover may actually increase the apparent illumination like a frosted light bulb. Hopefully this 'UFO' myth is stopped before it proceeds too far, although I can foresee UFO authors of NASA UFO conspiracies books/webpages including it in their list. If anyone wants copies of the DMSP images, let me know. >You're probably right, though what struck me funny in Chiao's >statement was reference to the possibility that it was a >constellation of satellites. Unless it was a very short period >use constellation, they wouldn't have been below the ISS. It was >merely interesting that he speculated that scenario. You are right that it was interesting that he thought it was satellites. But then, it gets very dark up there and if there is no Moon illumination, very dark indeed, especially over the ocean and with no city lights. If the fishing boats were near the edge of the possible field of view of ISS, then there would be NO other lights around, except for the sunrise and stars. It is interesting that the fishing boats lights exceed city lights nearby. >Thanks for the in-depth research, Mr. Smith. You're welcome! Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:30:51 -0300 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:45:26 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:15:03 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> Hi All, Just an observation but I'm betting that our boy Sakulich is getting more "press time" here than he is outside of the Triangle and among its readership. I'd let it go. Let it sink or swim on its own. Don Ledger Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:09:25 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:51:20 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: Eleanor White<eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:44:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>Source: The Epoch Times >>http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-4-16/27911.html >>Apr 16, 2005 >>Scientific and Historical Anomalies - The Engineered Moon >>By Will Barkley ><snip> >>+ Seismic data from moonquakes tell us that the moon >>reverberates like a bell up to several hours after an initial >>shock. This data also indicates that the moon is a hollow sphere >>because the shockwaves travel along the surface but not into the >>interior of the moon. >Has anyone calculated "how hollow" the moon could be and still >produce the rather substantial ocean tides down here? Hi Eleanor! Since the formula for gravitational attraction between any two bodies such as the Earth and the Moon depends only on their masses and the distance they are apart, these bodies can be treated as point masses to obtain the observed results, in this case the ocean tides produced by the Moon. It would not matter if the Moon was irregular in shape or even hollow. It is a fact that the lunar rocks and soil collected by the U.S. Apollo astronauts and the Soviet Luna robotic spacecraft have densities much higher than the average density of the Moon. This would mean that the density of the rocks within the Moon are much lower for the average density of the Moon to be conserved. Since few rocks on Earth have such low densities, this suggests that large regions in the interior the Moon may be hollow. This is also supported by the observed gravitational pertubations of spacecraft in orbit around the Moon. If the Moon, like the Earth (as we believe), had time to cool down from their early hot molten states, the lighter or less dense material would float to the top. This is just the opposite on the Moon! This strange fact can be explained if the material collected on the surface of the Moon was not actually part of the Moon but higher density material from meteoroids accumulated over long periods of time or, as some others have reasonably concluded based on this and other evidence (including seismic data), the Moon is a massive thick shelled hollow metallic sphere (an ET Noah's Ark UFO which entered our solar system in ancient times and parked itself in a circular orbit around our rare habitable world?). We must return to the Moon to learn to find out the truth about our closest neighbour in space, the still mysterious Moon. Nick Balaskas Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:34:42 -0500 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:52:35 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:29:54 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:48:50 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >I'm beginning to worry about you a little bit, Mr. Reynolds. >That's not good news. Alfred: Don't worry about me. I'll be fine..... Rich Reynolds Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:52:47 EDT Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:53:30 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:06:46 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:15 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >>The Hill case was the first known US abduction. How then were >>there any "books on UFO abductions" for Betty Hill to be reading >>and to supposedly fabricate or confabulate her story from? >Brad: >Sakulich was cavalier in his writing, which is a fault I >suppose. >He should have said that Betty Hill had access to materials, not >books exactly (magazine articles and newspaper accounts), that >might have inspired her rendition of what happened. >The 1957 Villas-Boas case comes to mind, where there is a >medical examination, Villas-Boas dragged into the "ship" (just >as Barney Hill said he was), a of mix humanoid beings and >"greys" (as Betty and Barney Hill's abductors were). etc. >This either means that Mrs. Hill used the Villas-Boas case as a >template for her account, or the same kind of abductors operated >almost identically in both instances. Rich, You didn't cite any books or articles on Villas-Boas that Betty Hill could have read prior to her UFO abduction in 1961 - because there weren't any. She couldn't read a description of Villas-Boas being "dragged into the 'ship'" and of the aliens because no such descriptions had been published as of 1961. The case was kept secret for years. The main publications of Villas-Boas were by Flying Saucer Review in 1965 and the Lorenzens in 1966. A Brazilian journal by Walter Buhler in 1962 would not have been available or readable by Betty Hill. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Animal Mutilations In La Arana Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:12:30 -0400 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:54:06 -0500 Subject: Animal Mutilations In La Arana Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 22, 2005 Source: Planeta UFO Date: April 21, 2005 Argentina: Animal Mutilations at La Arana by Raul Oscar Chaves Two mutilated animals were found on April 19, 2005 at a rural establishment located on Provincial Route No. 14, jurisdiction of "La Arana", some 35 km west of Toay (La Pampa, Argentina). One of them - a Shorton breed cow weighing 400 kg and pregnant - was found dead and missing its udders, the left eye and its tongue. The other animal - a horse - showed an incision on its lower jaw, missing tongue, missing ears, absence of hide, flesh mass and muscles on the right side of its head. Part of the horse's hide was also seen missing from the right wither to the leg, and from the back to the belly, as well as a lack of muscles and flesh on its front left leg. The animal, while lying on its left side, presented signs of having been mutilated on both sides of its body. It also presented advanced signs of deterioration, being practically desiccated. This may suppose the existence of some type of radiation or microwaves at play. According to the animals' owner, their deaths occurred some 15- 20 days ago. Remains of the horse's mane, separated from the body, were also found. There were no tracks or traces suggesting the involvement of carrion animals. As in other cases, this could be due to the presence of radiation on the carcass. It should be noted that both animals were standing close to each other, separated by an 8 meter distance, within the same premises and adjacent to a creek. It is known that during night hours, animals rest in the open field or, as they do in this area, seek shelter in among the trees and approach the water to drink in the morning. Having found the animals' carcasses near the water reinforces the hypothesis that the mutilations occurred during the day. Translation (c) 2005 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Strange Sphere Seen Twice Over Santa Rosa Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:24:21 -0400 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:54:42 -0500 Subject: Strange Sphere Seen Twice Over Santa Rosa Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 22, 2005 Source: CIUFOS-La Pampa Date: April 22, 2005 Argentina: Strange Sphere Seen Twice Over Santa Rosa by Raul Oscar Chaves Two eye witnesses-Julieta Pereyra and Cristina Diaz-walking along downtown Santa Rosa (La Pampa, Argentina) noticed the movement of a spherical object of a light grey color that stood out for its shape: presenting two protrusions or extensions shaped like a bow or a "U" on its upper section, with its tips pointing upward. The witnesses stated that the strange object was seen some seventy degrees over the horizon and to the northeast of the city, descending vertically. Their view of the object was hampered by the city's buildings. Regarding its size, they said that it was "as wide as a hand, with the arm outstreched", specifying that the sighting took place "at 12 noon on April 11, 2005 on a very beautiful and clear day." On April 15, 2005 at 1600 hours, Lorena Urban and Matias Bonifacino witnessed a spherical object moving east from the west over Santa Rosa, and some 30 degrees over the horizon. They noted that the object "was shaped like the full moon and had a glassy or shiny appearance, with two projections shaped like an open "U" , remakring that the base of this sphere was flat. The witnesses added that some sort of "belt" could be seen in the sphere's midsection and some sort of opening or "door" on its side, also having a glassy appearance but darker grey in color. Translation (c) 2005 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Secrecy News -- 04/22/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:56:54 -0400 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:55:16 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/22/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 39 April 22, 2005 ** SSCI FRACTURES OVER CIA DETENTION POLICY ** WAXMAN ON STATE DEPT TERRORISM REPORT ** MORE ON THE CLOSURE OF THE SIBEL EDMONDS HEARING ** CRS ON MIDDLE EAST AID ** FBIS REVIEWS 2005 CASTRO SPEECHES SSCI FRACTURES OVER CIA DETENTION POLICY Tensions within the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) over how to address the continuing controversy regarding CIA prisoner detention and interrogation policies became manifest this week as the Committee leaders brought their dispute to the Senate floor. Their contrasting views reflect fundamentally distinct conceptions of the role of intelligence oversight. SSCI Vice Chairman Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) filed a "sense of the Senate" amendment stating that the SSCI "should conduct an investigation into ... all matters relating to the ... detention, interrogation, or rendition of prisoners for intelligence purposes." The text of the amendment is here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_cr/sa437.html Sen. Rockefeller introduced his amendment after Committee Chairman Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS) rebuffed Committee Democrats' call for such an investigation in a closed-door meeting last week, according to an article in The Hill newspaper on April 19. In response to the Rockefeller amendment, Sen. Roberts then filed his own amendment. "My amendment actually expresses support for our Armed Forces and intelligence officers, rather than calling into question their actions, while they are on the front lines in the war on terror," Sen. Roberts said. The Roberts amendment is here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_cr/sa559.html In the end, neither amendment was taken up by the Senate. But both Senators presented their perspectives during the floor debate over the nomination of John D. Negroponte to be Director of National Intelligence, who was confirmed by a vote of 98-2. The Senate debate also encompassed a number other interesting and important issues, including Amb. Negronponte's past role in Honduras, problems of overclassification, and intelligence agency responsiveness to congressional requests for information. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_cr/s042105.html WAXMAN ON STATE DEPT TERRORISM REPORT Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) this week challenged the decision by the U.S. State Department to cease providing data on the number of terrorist incidents in its annual report on terrorism. Rep. Waxman noted that the number of terrorist incidents had reportedly risen over the past year and he asked the State Department Inspector General to investigate "whether political considerations played a role in the decision" to stop reporting their number in the congressionally-mandated annual report. Rep. Waxman's April 21 letter to the Inspector General is here: http://tinyurl.com/8j78m MORE ON THE CLOSURE OF THE SIBEL EDMONDS HEARING The DC District Court of Appeals agreed to release a public transcript of the unclassified portion of the closed hearing it held yesterday on the case of FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds. (A portion of the hearing was classified, during which the defense team was excluded and the government presented its arguments.) What remains unexplained is exactly why the hearing was closed in its entirety. "I think the court closed the thing out of a certain conservatism caused by confusion about how to proceed," one informed observer speculated. "I get the feeling they're trying, but just don't know what to do." "While within a court's power to close an oral argument, it certainly is odd -- especially odd without a motion from a litigant and without explanation." See "Court Of Appeals Abruptly Closes Hearing To The Public" by Rebecca Carr, Cox News Service, April 21: http://coxnews.com/cox/news/Rebecca_Carr/story/9121 CRS ON MIDDLE EAST AID Some recent reports of the Congressional Research Service include the following: "United States Aid to the Palestinians," March 4, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS21594.pdf "Israel: U.S. Foreign Assistance," updated March 7, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB85066.pdf "U.S. Foreign Assistance to the Middle East: Historical Background, Recent Trends, and the FY2006 Request," updated February 17, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL32260.pdf FBIS REVIEWS 2005 CASTRO SPEECHES The CIA's Foreign Intelligence Broadcast Service (FBIS) faithfully monitors the marathon public speeches of Cuba's Fidel Castro -- so that you don't have to. "President Castro, who is right-handed and known for gesticulating extensively with his right arm while speaking, has been progressively favoring his left arm since February," FBIS observed acutely in a new account. See "Cuba: Review of Fidel Castro Speeches, 2005," Foreign Broadcast Information Service, April 21, 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2005/04/fidel2005.html Relatedly, see "Cuba: Issues for the 109th Congress," Congressional Research Service, updated January 13, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL32730.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood.nul voice: (202) 454-4691 Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 New Article On The STS-48 Video From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:57:14 -0500 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:56:08 -0500 Subject: New Article On The STS-48 Video I started writing an article to address some of Oberg's assertions about the light flash in the STS-48 video that he made in a "critique" of my 2003 article (if you can call a vitriolic tirade lasting for weeks a "critique"). The earlier paper is in Mark Carlotto's online journal, NewFrontiersInScience.com. As most readers probably know, according to NASA, the objects in the video are supposed to be ice particles and the flash of light is from the firing of a small thruster rocket on the shuttle, causing several of the "particles" to change course abruptly. Doing some measurements on the video frames, I noticed that the average brightness of the video after the flash event doesn't drop back to what it was before the flash, which I found puzzling. While the most noticeable part of the flash lasts less than half a second, it appears to be only one of _three_ pulses in a series lasting 2.2 seconds embedded in a longer episode of elevated image brightness lasting at least 5 seconds and probably more than 8. The significance of this is that the thruster firing supposedly causing the events in the video lasted for only 1.2 seconds. It is just not possible that a thruster firing for 1.2 seconds could have increased the image brightness for 2.2 secondds, let alone 5 or more seconds. The article is in PDF format at: http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/STS-48/flash.pdf Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 03:23:19 +1000 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:56:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:32:11 +0100 >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:52:37 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>Good heavens! Do we, or rather did we, actually have a potential >>British whistleblower? Bit risky letting Sir Fred into such >>secrets. >>Are there, or have there been, any UK whistleblowers? Did any >>lose possible knighthoods (or peerages) as a result? Names >>please. >Christopher, your argument seems a bit circular, after all, if a >whistle blower _was_ silenced, suppressed, punished, we wouldn't >know of him/her. Not necessarily. This whole "whistleblower" thing is predicated upon the idea that the suppression is not always 100% effective, otherwise we wouldn't have anything to discuss. The main point here is that Hoyle was a famously blunt maverick who was never afraid to speak his mind. Not a good choice for such a sensitive job as a member of MJ-12, one would think. >And in fact Hoyle's astro-phys work - especially the analyzing >and correctly forecasting _and_ arranging the discovery of then >unknown energy level of carbon in stellar evolution easily >deserved the Nobel prize. >http://www.perceptions.couk.com/magic2.html#3 >Are you saying he _wasn't_ punished and partly obscured by >denial of that recognition? Yes, I think he did deserve a Nobel. But what are you suggesting? That he was denied the Nobel as punishment for an attempt to reveal the truth about <whatever>? By that logic, after the Nobel was awarded in 1983 to his collaborator William Fowler for their work (along with Margaret and Geoffrey Burbidge), he would have been free to reveal all he knew, because there was next to no chance that another Nobel would be awarded for essentially the same work at a later date - as you may imagine, they are rather competitive and there's lots of excellent science that doesn't get recognised (particularly in astrophysics and cosmology, which rarely get a look in). -- Brett Holman b.holman.nul IT Manager, School of Earth Sciences * IT Support, Astrophysics Group The University of Melbourne, Victoria 3010, AUSTRALIA * +61 3 8344 7307 http://astro.ph.unimelb.edu.au/~bholman/ * Remember: KLAATU BARADA NIKTO Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:29:41 +0100 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:57:43 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:03:04 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >Correct me if I'm wrong. My recollection was that Betty Hill >didn't get into all that cult and paranormal stuff until well >after the events of 1961. <snip> For Betty Hill's claimed prior history of personal and family paranormal experiences see Berthold Eric Schwarz "Talks with Betty Hill: 2 The Things that happen around her" in FSR 23, 3 (1977) pp 11-14, 31, especially pp13 onwards where we he have Betty's precognitive dream of the death of a school friend, her sister's UFO experience in 1954, sister Janet and her family's pet polt Hapless Hannah. The rest of Schwarz's article series deals with all sorts of other strange claims Betty was making in the 1970s. Of course all this is being _remembered_ from a position in the UFO/paranormal scene so we can't be sure it represents her pre 1961 world view. Jacques Vallee's diaries in "Forbidden Science" pp272-278 show Betty Hill moving into contactee territory back in 1967 under the influence of Hohmann and Jackson, guys who seem to fit the Jim Moseley phrase _semi-mysterious_ very well. Peter Rogerson Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Can This Be Majic? From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:29:48 +0000 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:58:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Can This Be Majic? >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 06:10:47 -0700 >Subject: Can This Be Majic? >Exempt From Disclosure: The Disturbing Case About the UFO >Coverup, by Robert M. Collins and Richard C. Doty: Christopher >Green MD, PhD in Neurophysiology now at Wayne State Medical >Center in Michigan relates that many years ago one of his >friends Richard Helms ex CIA Director at the time told him, >"Always believe what Richard Doty tells you about UFOs." >Richard Helms was briefed into the subject of UFOs in the early >days. He knew about Roswell and knew the involvement of the CIA >from around 1950 to the 1970s. Helms knew the NSA involvement >with programs to capture ET signals. >=97Rick Doty >About the Book >Robert M. Collins and Richard C. Doty, Copyrighted 2005 by >Peregrine Communications, all rights reserved. No part of the >book, Exempt From Disclosure, may be reproduced stored in a >retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, >electronic, mechanical photocopying, recording, or otherwise, >without the prior written permission of the authors; printed in >the United States of America. >The book will include: >Richard C. Doty: Air Force Office of Special Investigations >(AFOSI) Counter-Intelligence. This will include the OSI >investigation of Bennewitz. >Los Alamos: Reverse Engineering in the Z-Division or Division Z >(..) and Area 51-S4 with many hair raising documents (which were >the subject of an FBI investigation) from a Confidential LANL >source. >Los Alamos: TA 49 underground EBE time capsule drawing with >photos. Group photos of new MJ-12 Team Members and the true >story of the Aviary, not the mythology. >Plus other hair raising chapters focused on key players and what >they knew. >This is sure to raise the heat and stir up the soup on this >List. >http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/reports/efd_book.htm >-Bill Hamilton Bill, Sounds pretty trajic to me. Christopher Green, of course is either ex- or still current CIA and he and the others have been mixed up in the Bird[crap] department for quite some time. Doty is a real piece of work. Wonder what is stirring up this particular round of disinformation? On the face of it, if this baloney were true they wouldn't dare publish it openly. Watch for more phony documents too. - Dick Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:09:02 +0100 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:00:57 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:15 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >The Hill case was the first known US abduction. How then were >there any "books on UFO abductions" for Betty Hill to be reading >and to supposedly fabricate or confabulate her story from? Not strictly true. There was already an abduction story in print that of the Salzburg soldier which appeared in William Gordon Allen's Spacecraft from beyond three dimensions. Exposition Press, 1959 pp 136-38. The AVB story was going the rounds of American ufology as samizdat as early as 1959 and first appeared in the English language version of the SBEDV Bulletin in 1962. Though these were among the earliest abduction survivor stories, the general notion of people being abducted or kidnapped by aliens had already become part of ufological culture. A moment's thought will tell you that if indeed the Hill story had indeed come out of the blue, ufologists would have consigned it to the wpb straight away. On the contrary it was a story for which ufology was ready. For more details of the early history of the abduction motif, sources for the Hill's story etc, see my articles at http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/revis01.html Since they were written it's become clear that some kind of abduction survivor stories were circulating, probably in semi-pornographic men's magazine's much earlier. Donald Keyhoe, as early as 1953, talks of a story of a salesman and nurse being kidnapped by aliens in the desert (and the context clearly suggests its a published story of some sort), and Jacques Vallee in Anatomy of a Phenomena of the _alleged_ kidnapping of Tom Brooke, in Florida in 1952. There may well have been other stories circulating in sensational mags which are now lost. Of course I doubt that any of the other stories other than Salzburg soldier could have influenced Betty Hill, but there is good evidence that the story drew from a variety of ufological as well as non-ufological sources. If ufologists want to be taken seriously they have to stop saying, "just read" this or that sacred text and just believe and subject even their most pet stories to really detailed critical analysis. A number of people have asked, given that he appears to know very little about the subjects he pontificates on, why is Aaron Sakulich constantly quoted. Rather cynically I suspect he makes a useful straw skeptic who can be knocked down time and again with very little effort, and thus ufologists aren't challenged to critically think about what they believe Peter Rogerson Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:33:23 -0700 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:01:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director >From: Bland Pugh <flmufonsd.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:24:51 EDT >Subject: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director >See: >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/apr/m20-009.shtml >>Source: UFO Watchdog >>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/ware.html >>19-APR-05 >>MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO Fraud >>Donald Ware Says 'Dr. Reed' Book Is "Documentation Of An >>Important Event", Calls UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Disinformation Agents" >Donald Ware is not the Florida MUFON State Director nor has he >been in well over a decade. Currently I, Bland Pugh, hold that >position and have for the last five years - Charles Flannigan >for over ten year prior to that. >Thanks for the correction. The error has been corrected and a notice has been posted regarding the error. My apologies to the current state director. Regards, Royce J. Myers III UFOWATCHDOG.COM Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:37:19 -0400 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:02:18 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:06:46 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:15 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >He should have said that Betty Hill had access to materials, not >books exactly (magazine articles and newspaper accounts), that >might have inspired her rendition of what happened. >The 1957 Villas-Boas case comes to mind, where there is a >medical examination, Villas-Boas dragged into the "ship" (just >as Barney Hill said he was), a of mix humanoid beings and >"greys" (as Betty and Barney Hill's abductors were). etc. >This either means that Mrs. Hill used the Villas-Boas case as a >template for her account, or the same kind of abductors operated >almost identically in both instances. It is my recollection that the Villas-Boas case was known to the the Lorenzens of APRO but that they had not published it as of 1961. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 ETH Case For UFOs [was: UFO Couple Use Story...] From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:40:50 +0100 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:03:00 -0500 Subject: ETH Case For UFOs [was: UFO Couple Use Story...] >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:40:40 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>Resorting to insults... >Yes, regrettable... always regrettable... forever regrettable... >but in this case also ~reflexively~ regrettable and so then >somewhat less regrettable, even understandable, and for my money >laudable. Was this a little too much on our first encounter, >Sir? Sorry. >Any institutional memory on this subject at all demonstrates >that the very best the card-carrying klasskurtzian pelicanist >(and please find it in your offended sensibilities to forgive >that easily bestowed, but identifying, appellation) ...can throw >is batted well out of the debated park by their citation >providing opposition. That the rationally dismissible points of >the former can be raised again and again, year after year in the >same uninformed, arrogant, and portentous manner without an >equal outrage on your part... provokes somthing of an outrage in >me, to be sure. >>...shows how threatened... >Maybe not threatened so much as exasperated, intellectually >insulted, or, ethically outraged. We'll forget for a moment the >implication, above, that the positions of your obvious >opposition are remotely assailable to begin with, and that we've >a collective fear that our flim-flammery is, at base, >unsupported, and would be found out. ...That in a hard, harsh >light we know that we are exposed, and so duplicitous... and so >concoct insult and ad hominum to cover our weak flanks and dodgy >theories... >How is it then that it is _us_ (as it has always been) who call >for that hard harsh light (your side only makes reference to) >which is not forthcoming? >Again! Is there quality information with regard to UFOs that is hidden >from the rank and file individual? Almost certainly! The huge volume >of _extant_ evidence is of a quality that cannot be forever ignored... >still, you'd seem to want to try. >Verily, the quality anecdotal evidence, compounded with the >vetted photographic evidence, and then added to the documented >historical evidence, gives _every_ indication that a ufological >contention regarding that phenomena _must_ be more real than >not... Moreover, when the preceding is framed by the serious >artistic evidence, qualified by the available physical evidence, >and then compellingly buttressed by the conclusively personal >evidence, I can only be annoyingly astonished by the continued >reluctance of _some_ to face the highly strange music that just >cannot be -forever- marginalized... Does the information >available justify attention by the mainstream to perform a more >'in depth' investigation of UFOs? Absolutely! I highlight the following 6 points: 1. quality anecdotal evidence 2. vetted photographic evidence 3. documented historical evidence 4. conclusively personal evidence 5. available physical evidence 6. serious artistic evidence You have used these phrases before to "compellingly buttress" the ETH case for the UFO. Sounds impressive, but remember that mainstream science probably does not go along with your initial descriptive word in each of the above six phrases. It is these initial six words that cause skepticism and rejection by science. Choice of such adjectives is always open to dispute & debate. But then so is the whole UFO subject. (surprise!) One example: "available physical evidence". Where is it? Can anyone go and see it, or touch it? Is is genuinely "available"? (UFO bits & pieces allegedly stored in top secret vaults would be classed as "unavailable"). Another: can you give just one example of "vetted photographic evidence" that points irrefutably to ETH (as opposed to it being merely an unknown)? Please, please, do not refer me to any of the following: Adamski, Billy Meier, Gulf Breeze, or any of the voluminous but useless camcorder stuff from Mexico. Also please, if possible, say who did the vetting. The term "serious artistic evidence" is odd. Why is it relevant? CDA Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On Reed From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 06:22:59 EDT Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:03:52 -0500 Subject: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On Reed >From: Larry Bryant <overtci.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:56:04 -0500 >Subject: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On Reed >----- Forwarded Message ----- >From: victorgm.nul (Victor Martinez) >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:56:54 -0700 >From: Kathleen Anderson <bankerquest.nul> >To: Victor Martinez >Re: The Jonathan Reed UFO Fraud "Alien in the Freezer," >Wednesday, 4-20-05 >I worked on the Reed case from the time it became public >until the time it "went away." <snip> I didn't realize anyone considered the Jonathan Reed case to be genuine. I saw him a few years ago at the Laughlin UFO Conference, shortly after his book was published. He was in a white suit, looking more like a snake-oil salesman than an experiencer, signing copies of his book. On stage, he managed to squeak-out a few fake whimpers during some semi-emotional moment. It was really pathetic; he was such a terrible actor. He was emotionally supported by 2 other people on stage, with links to his book (if I remember correctly). After his presentation, a lady who worked in television challenged his use of steady-cam for his video, before it had come to the home market. He offered no explanation for the amazingly smooth video taken while breathlessly running down the trail of fear..... What a fraud. He must have been laughing all the way to the bank. But I wasn't laughing; it made me angry at him to see people parting with their money - and their trust - and giving it to this charlatan. Dave Morton Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:43:38 +0200 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:04:24 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:06:46 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>He should have said that Betty Hill had access to materials, not >>books exactly (magazine articles and newspaper accounts), that >>might have inspired her rendition of what happened. >>The 1957 Villas-Boas case comes to mind, where there is a >>medical examination, Villas-Boas dragged into the "ship" (just >>as Barney Hill said he was), a of mix humanoid beings and >>"greys" (as Betty and Barney Hill's abductors were). etc. >>This either means that Mrs. Hill used the Villas-Boas case as a >>template for her account, or the same kind of abductors operated >>almost identically in both instances. Sorry, Rich, when trying to defend skeptical postures, you must be quite careful in your comments: + Neither Vilas Boas abductors nor Hills were really Greys. Vilas Boas was abducted by not-very short humanoids in spacesuits (almost the only one abductee to describe this kind of apparatus), received no medical examination short of two small punctures in the chin, and enjoyed a sexual relationship with a strange naked "woman", perfectly human (he even saw her teeth). Allegedly, after a trip to the USA in the 70s he admitted that she had also obtained a sperm sample. Can anybody confirm such a trip? + Hill's aliens were initially described as nazis, red-haired, with caps and scarfs and, of course, those "wrap-around eyes". I myself admit Kottmeyer's proposal about the "Outer Limits" influence, but I do not think such idea is shared in this forum! So, I think we can discard any direct influence of the Vilas Boas case in Betty, through lectures, etc. A different kind of influence (upon the ufologists who investigated the case) is more probable because it had been documented as early as November 1958 when Dr. Fontes wrote Dr. Mebane (APRO) a long letter giving details of the case. Besides that, Buhler's Brazilian magazine was published in English for the first time - they already knew of its significance.) So the case, or at least the gossip around it, was clearly known among ufologists in the USA in the early 60s. So they could be more sympathetic to a similar description, and even offer some kind of feedback to Barney and Betty. The evolution of their descriptions is evident between the original ones and later reconstructiuons. Luis R. Gonzalez Manso Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: Can This Be Majic? From: Murray Bott <murrayb.nul> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:45:33 +1200 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:05:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Can This Be Majic? >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:29:48 +0000 >Subject: Re: Can This Be Majic? >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 06:10:47 -0700 >>Subject: Can This Be Majic? >>Exempt From Disclosure: The Disturbing Case About the UFO >>Coverup, by Robert M. Collins and Richard C. Doty: Christopher >>Green MD, PhD in Neurophysiology now at Wayne State Medical >>Center in Michigan relates that many years ago one of his >>friends Richard Helms ex CIA Director at the time told him, >>"Always believe what Richard Doty tells you about UFOs." >>Richard Helms was briefed into the subject of UFOs in the early >>days. He knew about Roswell and knew the involvement of the CIA >>from around 1950 to the 1970s. Helms knew the NSA involvement >>with programs to capture ET signals. >>=97Rick Doty >>About the Book >>Robert M. Collins and Richard C. Doty, Copyrighted 2005 by >>Peregrine Communications, all rights reserved. No part of the >>book, Exempt From Disclosure, may be reproduced stored in a >>retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, >>electronic, mechanical photocopying, recording, or otherwise, >>without the prior written permission of the authors; printed in >>the United States of America. <snip> >Sounds pretty trajic to me. Christopher Green, of course is >either ex- or still current CIA and he and the others have been >mixed up in the Bird[crap] department for quite some time. >Doty is a real piece of work. >Wonder what is stirring up this particular round of >disinformation? >On the face of it, if this baloney were true they wouldn't dare >publish it openly. >Watch for more phony documents too. Greetings List people, I remain a silent List-lurker here these days but the post from Bill Hamilton is somewhat disappointing. Richard Doty's involvement (with Bill Moore} is well known and the fact that Robert Collins involvement as "Condor" in the Television special, UFO Coverup-Live, is likely to have faded into obscurity except for a few of us who recall this somewhat 'wasted TV time' was a major disappointment to serious UFO researchers. I wish that those 'MJ-12' devotees, including Bill Hamilton, would take a more serious look at the real evidence regarding MJ-12, and realise that it has all been nothing more than baloney from the beginning..... Only a great deal of wishfull thinking will preserve the illusion that MJ-12 actually existed. Regards Murray Bott Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 06:13:08 -0700 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:06:03 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:30:51 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >Hi All, >Just an observation but I'm betting that our boy Sakulich is >getting more "press time" here than he is outside of the >Triangle and among its readership. >I'd let it go. Let it sink or swim on its own. Hi Don: I have to agree. Just as the first job of any politician is to get elected, the first job of a budding writer or journalist is to get noticed. It doesn't much matter how for many of them. Jerry had it right. Why are we even talking about this guy? Best - Larry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Close Encounters Of Diverse Kinds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:13:58 -0500 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:07:03 -0500 Subject: Close Encounters Of Diverse Kinds Here is a link to a paper which is quite interesting, and thorough about "close encounters" of the UFO kind - and it deals with Villas-Boas, the Hills, and much more. It's a PDF file, and can be saved to your computer: http://pup.princeton.edu/chapters/s7071.pdf Rich Reynolds Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 06:26:30 -0700 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:08:07 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:52:47 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:06:46 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>The 1957 Villas-Boas case comes to mind, where there is a >>medical examination, Villas-Boas dragged into the "ship" >just as Barney Hill said he was), a of mix humanoid beings and >>"greys" (as Betty and Barney Hill's abductors were). etc. >>This either means that Mrs. Hill used the Villas-Boas case as a >>template for her account, or the same kind of abductors operated >>almost identically in both instances. >Rich, >You didn't cite any books or articles on Villas-Boas that Betty >Hill could have read prior to her UFO abduction in 1961 - >because there weren't any. >She couldn't read a description of Villas-Boas being "dragged >into the 'ship'" and of the aliens because no such descriptions >had been published as of 1961. >The case was kept secret for years. >The main publications of Villas-Boas were by Flying Saucer Review in 1965 and the Lorenzens in 1966. A Brazilian journal by Walter Buhler in 1962 would not have been available or readable by Betty Hill. Thanks Brad, I missed that one. While I have my worries about the AVB case in Brazil, I had lost track of the publication time-line. That's understandable (I hope) for someone babysitting something like 18,430 UFO listings. While both cases trouble me, somehow the Hills matter rings better bells than Villas-Boas. (I don't want to start a new thread on that, just my personal take.) Best - Larry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:38:52 -0500 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:08:40 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:37:19 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:06:46 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:15 EDT >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>This either means that Mrs. Hill used the Villas-Boas case as a >>template for her account, or the same kind of abductors operated >>almost identically in both instances. >It is my recollection that the Villas-Boas case was known to the >the Lorenzens of APRO but that they had not published it as of >1961. You're right, Bruce. It is simply rank nonsense to argue that Betty Hill knew of the Villas-Boas case. Anybody who contends otherwise is simply betraying ignorance of the strangely delicate and puritanical manner in which ufologists handled the V-B case. For a discussion of that particular issue, see p. 976 of The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd ed. The first, very brief and undetailed reference in an American publication was in the October 1962 issue of Fate. This whole discussion is, I think, a pretty disheartening one, showing only the sort of disregard for evidence and logic by would-be debunkers that they're always accusing UFO proponents of. Other than that, this discussion has been a waste of time and bandwidth. Jerry Clark Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:08:18 -0500 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:43:38 +0200 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:06:46 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>He should have said that Betty Hill had access to materials, not >>>books exactly (magazine articles and newspaper accounts), that >>>might have inspired her rendition of what happened. >>>The 1957 Villas-Boas case comes to mind, where there is a >>>medical examination, Villas-Boas dragged into the "ship" (just >>>as Barney Hill said he was), a of mix humanoid beings and >>>"greys" (as Betty and Barney Hill's abductors were). etc. >>>This either means that Mrs. Hill used the Villas-Boas case as a >>>template for her account, or the same kind of abductors operated >>>almost identically in both instances. >Sorry, Rich, when trying to defend skeptical postures, you must >be quite careful in your comments: >+ Neither Vilas Boas abductors nor Hills were really Greys. >Vilas Boas was abducted by not-very short humanoids in >spacesuits (almost the only one abductee to describe this kind >of apparatus), received no medical examination short of two >small punctures in the chin, and enjoyed a sexual relationship >with a strange naked "woman", perfectly human (he even saw her >teeth). >Allegedly, after a trip to the USA in the 70s he admitted that >she had also obtained a sperm sample. Can anybody confirm such a >trip? >+ Hill's aliens were initially described as nazis, red-haired, >with caps and scarfs and, of course, those "wrap-around eyes". I >myself admit Kottmeyer's proposal about the "Outer Limits" >influence, but I do not think such idea is shared in this forum! >So, I think we can discard any direct influence of the Vilas >Boas case in Betty, through lectures, etc. A different kind of >influence (upon the ufologists who investigated the case) is >more probable because it had been documented as early as >November 1958 when Dr. Fontes wrote Dr. Mebane (APRO) a long >letter giving details of the case. >Besides that, Buhler's Brazilian magazine was published in >English for the first time - they already knew of its >significance.) >So the case, or at least the gossip around it, was clearly known >among ufologists in the USA in the early 60s. So they could be >more sympathetic to a similar description, and even offer some >kind of feedback to Barney and Betty. The evolution of their >descriptions is evident between the original ones and later >reconstructiuons. Thanks, Luis... Your information is much appreciated, as it forces me to reconsider the Hills' case in different ways. I'm influenced, unfortunately perhaps, by something we got back in the 70s about the Villas-Boas case, which is online (via a link) at the bottom of our listings of UFO web-sites: http://www.ufolab.us Our online material was sent to Jacques Vallee (who found it intriguing) and is getting book treatment this year, after the person who told us about the CIA connection to the Villas-Boas case was found to have actually worked for the CIA in South America as he said. Rich Reynolds Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 23 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:17:16 -0700 Archived: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:29:41 +0100 >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:03:04 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:58:23 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear ><snip> >>Correct me if I'm wrong. My recollection was that Betty Hill >>didn't get into all that cult and paranormal stuff until well >>after the events of 1961. ><snip> >For Betty Hill's claimed prior history of personal and family >paranormal experiences see Berthold Eric Schwarz "Talks with >Betty Hill: 2 The Things that happen around her" in FSR 23, 3 >(1977) pp 11-14, 31, especially pp13 onwards where we he have >Betty's precognitive dream of the death of a school friend, her >sister's UFO experience in 1954, sister Janet and her family's >pet polt Hapless Hannah. The rest of Schwarz's article series >deals with all sorts of other strange claims Betty was making in >the 1970s. Of course all this is being _remembered_ from a >position in the UFO/paranormal scene so we can't be sure it represents her pre 1961 world view. >Jacques Vallee's diaries in "Forbidden Science" pp272-278 show >Betty Hill moving into contactee territory back in 1967 under >the influence of Hohmann and Jackson, guys who seem to fit the >Jim Moseley phrase _semi-mysterious_ very well. Thanks Peter for the added info and references. I'm not deeply into any particular case, especially abductions. My focus is always on a database of UFO sightings, thousands of them, so there are only so many neurons available for any one of them. If my sanity was being questioned in, oh say 1975, I would prefer the guy across the street over Betty Hill to testify on my behalf. For all I know he's a tee-totaler. [burp!] I try to stay out of the abduction scene because it is such a horrible can of worms. One could make an argument for une 'folie-a-deux' where two people share and mutually reinforce some fantastic and presumably imaginary scenario. One can mention any number of 'seeds', i.e. pre- existing stories which served as a catalyst or inspiration for the Hills' experience. There could be precedents in science fiction for example, but I leave that to others. It just seems like a damned shame Barney Hill passed away so early on. That left everyone with Betty, who strikes me as somebody thoroughly enjoying the various colorful offerings of the paranormal sushi- bar. I would prefer to bow out at this time. I have no expertise in psychology. I prefer good old-fashioned nuts-and-bolts ufology, but I will venture this: _If_ this planet is indeed being studied by some alien society, there is nothing to prevent at least a few specimens being observed under clinical conditions. Best wishes - Larry Hatch Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:22:27 -0500 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:19:10 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:38:52 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:37:19 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:06:46 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:15 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>This either means that Mrs. Hill used the Villas-Boas case as a >>>template for her account, or the same kind of abductors operated >>>almost identically in both instances. >>It is my recollection that the Villas-Boas case was known to the >>the Lorenzens of APRO but that they had not published it as of >>1961. >You're right, Bruce. It is simply rank nonsense to argue that >Betty Hill knew of the Villas-Boas case. Anybody who contends >otherwise is simply betraying ignorance of the strangely >delicate and puritanical manner in which ufologists handled the >V-B case. For a discussion of that particular issue, see p. 976 >of The UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd ed. The first, very brief and >undetailed reference in an American publication was in the >October 1962 issue of Fate. >This whole discussion is, I think, a pretty disheartening one, >showing only the sort of disregard for evidence and logic by >would-be debunkers that they're always accusing UFO proponents >of. Other than that, this discussion has been a waste of time >and bandwidth. As a former writer for Fate magazine and a UFO encyclopediast extraordinaire, I'm surprised that Jerry Clark dismisses the possibility of the Hills using former "encounters" for their story, especially since one appears in the October 1957 edition of Fate (pages 22-23). And there are others. earlier than 1961, many in Fate. Rich Reynolds Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:43:16 -0700 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:19:47 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:37:19 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >It is my recollection that the Villas-Boas case was known to >the the Lorenzens of APRO but that they had not published it as >of 1961. Hi Bruce: I think it was Antonio VB, thus the 'AVB' case so prominent in the literature, APRO & FSR especially. Regardless, the AVB case strongly bothers me. Brazilian sex scenes with space aliens just don't ring true here. Some have noted that AVB went on to become a lawyer. I don't even know if that is a fact; if it is, that doesn't help much either. No offense to honest barristers please! We are talking the Americas here, and far southeast of Costa Rica. Somehow, I cannot envision AVB as 'Rumpole of the Bailey', not even from Redwood City, CA where I live. I can't much blame a skeptic for tossing darts at AVB, I'm tempted to toss a few myself. I just wish the pretty little pub would stay open a little longer and not ring the bell so damned soon. Best wishes - Larry Hatch Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:45:53 -0500 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:22:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:33:23 -0700 >Subject: Re: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director >>From: Bland Pugh <flmufonsd.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:24:51 EDT >>Subject: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director >>See: >>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/apr/m20-009.shtml >>>Source: UFO Watchdog >>>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/ware.html >>>19-APR-05 >>>MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO Fraud >>>Donald Ware Says 'Dr. Reed' Book Is "Documentation Of An >>>Important Event", Calls UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Disinformation >>>Agents" >>Donald Ware is not the Florida MUFON State Director nor has he >>been in well over a decade. Currently I, Bland Pugh, hold that >>position and have for the last five years - Charles Flannigan >>for over ten year prior to that. >>Thanks for the correction. >The error has been corrected and a notice has been posted >regarding the error. My apologies to the current state >director. Why is your error notice posted in faint text while the original error is still there in bold print. Noting that Ware was the former Florida State Director should have been made in passing but instead it is in huge type at the beginning of the article. I find nothing wrong with lambasting Ware over his support of the Reed fraud but your heading almost gives the impression that MUFON had something to do with it even though Ware was no longer associated with them and hadn't been for quite a long time. I find it misleading at best. You still call him the Florida State Director in the article itself. I suggest changing the title to DONALD WARE SUPPORTS REED UFO FRAUD and leave any reference to MUFON out of the title. Thanks Terry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Can This Be Majic? From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:56:40 -0700 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:22:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Can This Be Majic? >From: Murray Bott <murrayb.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:45:33 +1200 >Subject: Re: Can This Be Majic? >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:29:48 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Can This Be Majic? >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 06:10:47 -0700 >>>Subject: Can This Be Majic? >>>Exempt From Disclosure: The Disturbing Case About the UFO >>>Coverup, by Robert M. Collins and Richard C. Doty: Christopher >>>Green MD, PhD in Neurophysiology now at Wayne State Medical >>>Center in Michigan relates that many years ago one of his >>>friends Richard Helms ex CIA Director at the time told him, >>>"Always believe what Richard Doty tells you about UFOs." >>>Richard Helms was briefed into the subject of UFOs in the early >>>days. He knew about Roswell and knew the involvement of the CIA >>>from around 1950 to the 1970s. Helms knew the NSA involvement >>>with programs to capture ET signals. >>>=97Rick Doty >>>About the Book >>>Robert M. Collins and Richard C. Doty, Copyrighted 2005 by >>>Peregrine Communications, all rights reserved. No part of the >>>book, Exempt From Disclosure, may be reproduced stored in a >>>retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, >>>electronic, mechanical photocopying, recording, or otherwise, >>>without the prior written permission of the authors; printed in >>>the United States of America. ><snip> >>Sounds pretty trajic to me. Christopher Green, of course is >>either ex- or still current CIA and he and the others have been >>mixed up in the Bird[crap] department for quite some time. >>Doty is a real piece of work. >>Wonder what is stirring up this particular round of >>disinformation? >>On the face of it, if this baloney were true they wouldn't dare >>publish it openly. >>Watch for more phony documents too. >Greetings List people, >I remain a silent List-lurker here these days but the post >from Bill Hamilton is somewhat disappointing. >Richard Doty's involvement (with Bill Moore} is well known and >the fact that Robert Collins involvement as "Condor" in the >Television special, UFO Coverup-Live, is likely to have faded >into obscurity except for a few of us who recall this somewhat >'wasted TV time' was a major disappointment to serious UFO >researchers. >I wish that those 'MJ-12' devotees, including Bill Hamilton, >would take a more serious look at the real evidence regarding >MJ-12, and realise that it has all been nothing more than >baloney from the beginning..... >Only a great deal of wishfull thinking will preserve the >illusion that MJ-12 actually existed. Murray, Richard, all... it is amazing to me how you tolerate Stan Friedman. An illusion, huh? Wait until you see the new evidence, not simply a posting I made. Then start your arguments. That would be fair treatment, but the utter lack of investigative fairness I have seen in ufology seems to be determined by individual's preferences and opinions. Why jump to a conclusion that it is an illusion that MJ-12 existed when all the evidence has not yet been examined and I am speaking of new evidence and testimony yet to come out including what is in Collin's book? I know the old saw: Doty was in CI and is a liar then and now. Kit was ex-CIA and you can't trust him. Hal Puthoff was NSA and we can't trust him and I was in USAFSS under NSA so you can't trust me. If that is your stance, your welcome to it. I prefer to reserve judgment until I see all sides of the issue and all sides have not yet been made visible. Lately, I have gone back to physics and biology research but find controversy and heat that equals or exceeds anything in UFO research so there is no escaping taking a stand. I have forwarded your comments to Collins (and thus to Doty) for any responses they wish to give as I doubt they will post here on this list. I will do a limited amount of forwarding if necesary. There is no doubt that the statements made in this book will promote controversy and argument as I have seen some of the content and have a copy on its way to my mailbox. The wider public audience out there will, most likely, discuss this book and talk show hosts will want to interview the authors so sooner or later you will have to issue your statements concerning your beliefs about this book, but if you assert it is disinformation, please have a sound argument for so reasoning. Your statements here also indicate that you reject all propositions, evidence, and statements made by Stan that see him supporting the authenticity of the original Majestic EBD and the research he has done that leaves him to believe in the real existence of the MJ-12 group. Gentlemen, take your sides and let the polemic begin. -Bill Hamilton Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:15:18 -0700 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:23:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On >From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 06:22:59 EDT >Subject: Re: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On Reed >>From: Larry Bryant <overtci.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:56:04 -0500 >>Subject: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On Reed <snip> >I didn't realize anyone considered the Jonathan Reed case >to be genuine. There are still people who take Sandbar Rampa (or whomever) seriously. No surprise. >I saw him a few years ago at the Laughlin UFO Conference, >shortly after his book was published. He was in a white suit, >looking more like a snake-oil salesman than an experiencer, >signing copies of his book. >On stage, he managed to squeak-out a few fake whimpers during >some semi-emotional moment. It was really pathetic; he was such >a terrible actor. He was emotionally supported by 2 other people >on stage, with links to his book (if I remember correctly). Doesn't matter. The audience already paid admission. This is why I avoid UFO 'hootenannies' as I call them. <snip> >What a fraud. He must have been laughing all the way to the >bank. But I wasn't laughing; it made me angry at him to see >people parting with their money - and their trust - and giving >it to this charlatan. Hello Dave: Total agreement here, but this is just one case. The same could be said for any number of circus tent evangelists, food-coloring faith healers, AOL clients and gawd knows who else. I maintain that it is the job of the _individual_ to grow viable brain cells, and a lick of sense. The most we can do is offer opinions, some of which could also be wrong. I've come to the point where I disregard the followers of Scientology, the "Tao of physics", Christian Science, everything-new-age-you-care-to-name... and a thousand other forms of what I call 'mind-f*#k'. Imagine! 4 or 5 billion years to form the observable universe. Half of that maybe to form this solar system. Life on Earth for half-again of that, and the human race only arising, rapidly, in the last 100,000 years at most. The only race capable or imagining or theorizing its origins! What do we do? We listen to the likes of J. Reid who tells us just what we want to hear. I'm going right back to the fridge on that one. It has just the beers I want to find. Das ist keine Budweiser in _that_ beer box. Best - Larry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: The Engineered Moon From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:28:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:25:10 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:09:25 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>Scientific and Historical Anomalies - The Engineered Moon >>By Will Barkley >>+ Seismic data from moonquakes tell us that the moon >>reverberates like a bell up to several hours after an initial >>shock. This data also indicates that the moon is a hollow sphere >>because the shockwaves travel along the surface but not into the >>interior of the moon. >It is a fact that the lunar rocks and soil collected by the U.S. >Apollo astronauts and the Soviet Luna robotic spacecraft have >densities much higher than the average density of the Moon. This >would mean that the density of the rocks within the Moon are >much lower for the average density of the Moon to be conserved. >Since few rocks on Earth have such low densities, this suggests >that large regions in the interior the Moon may be hollow. This >is also supported by the observed gravitational pertubations of >spacecraft in orbit around the Moon. The gravitional perturbations are due to MASCONS or mass concentrations, likely metallic remains of objects that impacted the Moon or upwellings from the dense core after major impacts. If you have a report or data that show hollow cavities on the Moon, please provide it. >If the Moon, like the Earth (as we believe), had time to cool >down from their early hot molten states, the lighter or less >dense material would float to the top. This is just the opposite >on the Moon! This strange fact can be explained if the material >collected on the surface of the Moon was not actually part of >the Moon but higher density material from meteoroids accumulated >over long periods of time or, as some others have reasonably >concluded based on this and other evidence (including seismic >data), the Moon is a massive thick shelled hollow metallic >sphere (an ET Noah's Ark UFO which entered our solar system in >ancient times and parked itself in a circular orbit around our >rare habitable world?). Reading the Apollo preliminary science reports show a different picture of the lunar geology from what you describe. For the Apollo 17 PSR, pg 11-9, it states that the Moon is characterized by a rigid, dynamically inactive outer shell, about 1000 km thick surrounding a core that has markedly different elastic properties. The lunar core is assumed to be at or near the melting point thus much weaker than the outer layer. In the Apollo 14 PSR, pg 154, it has a nice picture of how the seismic waves are scattered with the scattering zone of about 50-100 km thick on the surface. Can you point for me what document has the "bell" ringing assertion and what reputable scientist stated that the Moon was hollow? Looking at some of the links of the above article showed some true statements (detection of water ions on the Moon), but others seem to be misinterpretations. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: ETH Case For UFOs From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:35:03 -0500 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:25:55 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:40:50 +0100 >Subject: ETH Case For UFOs [was: UFO Couple Use Story...] >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:40:40 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >I highlight the following 6 points: >1. quality anecdotal evidence >2. vetted photographic evidence >3. documented historical evidence >4. conclusively personal evidence >5. available physical evidence >6. serious artistic evidence >You have used these phrases before to "compellingly buttress" >the ETH case for the UFO. Sounds impressive, That might be because it _is_ impressive, Sir. Not because it can be so iterated, but because it _is_ so. I didn'y make the stuff up to curry favor, boyo. <g> >but remember that >mainstream science probably does not go along with your initial >descriptive word in each of the above six phrases. Wow! You think? Seriously, don't you presume any error must be on _my_ side of the equation in your conjectured evaluation, and that a self-styled poet warrior aspiring to duty, honor, and courage... willing to sacrifice 50K a year for the last five years to prosecute an injustice beyond reason or insult... can't hold a sputtering candle to the 'conventional wisdoms' of a hijacked mainstream known for its data _driving_ proclivities, proclivities to the detriment of its data _driven_ ones? Is it _my_ intellectual cowardice, _my_ ignorance, _my_ duplicity, _my_ betrayal of the trust, _my_ dishonor? I think not. >It is these >initial six words that cause skepticism and rejection by >science. You won't be a scientist if you'd drive rather than be driven, Mr. Allan. The lot you describe has betrayed their trust and so abdicated the high ground to which you would allude _and_ appeal. To a growing segment of persons, with regard to the subject at hand, your heroes (by their own hand, I add) become increasingly irrelevant. Tell me about rocks and ice cores, Sir, but avoid telling me what your mainstream says about UFOs. The stench of cant and bias... and cowardice... is too strong. I don't have to accept it. I won't validate _your_ faith. >Choice of such adjectives is always open to dispute & >debate. But then so is the whole UFO subject. (surprise!) That's not my problem, forgetting your statement connotes a faux admonition that UFOs are _ultimately_ giggleable and so one must be 'careful' to express themselves in a calm measured 'scientific' tone so as not to arouse the imps of ridicule or the trolls of derision. I don't have a lot of respect for any of that kind of that, just described, paradigm... forgetting that the respect has in no way has been, remotely, earned, with insult added to injury later on. With regard to you and yours I am eyes askance and arms akimbo. Your 'laughter' is inappropriate, self-deluding, and increasingly more strained as time accelerates. >One example: "available physical evidence". Where is it? Can >anyone go and see it, or touch it? Is is genuinely "available"? Ok -- now see... this is exactly what I'm talking about. You _must_ remember we've already gone over this before, but which you apparently plowed into and got stopped like the coyote in an old roadrunner cartoon... One word... just to start... Phillips... Next. >(UFO bits & pieces allegedly stored in top secret vaults would >be classed as "unavailable"). >Another: can you give just one example of "vetted photographic >evidence" that points irrefutably to ETH (as opposed to it being >merely an unknown)? Mr. Allan! You astonish me! You are the living breathing example of the fact that their is no such thing as 'proof', only evidence that will be accepted as 'proof' to a collection of persons to varying degrees. Smarter men than you and me accept as proof such as what you would obviously _not_ accept, Sir. No points here. >Please, please, do not refer me to any of the following: >Adamski, Billy Meier, Gulf Breeze, or any of the voluminous >but useless camcorder stuff from Mexico. Oh and please, please... please... don't insult the intelligence of every person reading (with the remotest interest in UFOs) that you are the least bit interested, Sir, in being referred to a photograph or a person that can't be shown to have come up with fleas because it may (or may not!) have been down with some dogs. That would set up your little "strawman" argument nicely, wouldn't it? Moreover, your airy dismissal of Adamski, Billy Meier, Gulf Breeze, or any of the "voluminous but useless camcorder stuff from Mexico" (fairly dripping bigotry I add), in no way addresses what it is, or was, that keeps them compelling and controversial to this day. Yours is the convenient dismissal of the little man, Sir. Based on _some_ of your posts, I would have thought that _that_ would be beneath you. >Also please, if possible, say who did the vetting. Talk to Richard Hall, Jerry Clark, Stanton Friedman et sig al. You know who to talk to... I only have to convince _myself_, Sir. I wouldn't give a fig for anyone, like yourself, who _won't_ be convinced... of self-involved need. We're not the center of the universe Mr. Allan, get used to it. And you forget, Sir! I don't have to clear your specious hurdles! It's you, _mine_. Try to remember you and yours are bankrupt and irrelevant on the issue of UFOs. You don't hold water. Your dog won't hunt. You're a 'driver', Mr. Allen. I aspire to the 'driven'. >The term "serious artistic evidence" is odd. Why is it relevant? Your statement and question is comprised of shallowness, tediousness, and obstinacy in equal amounts. Moreover, there's irony in its _own_ lack of relevance. Happy driving, Mr. Allan. You wouldn't like your destination, Sir. Be thankful I'm around to rescue you from it. Now... go say your scientistic (sic) 'bead', and stop trifling. alienview.nul -:|:- www.AlienView.net Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:40:52 +1000 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:26:32 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: Eleanor White<eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:44:30 -0400 >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>+ Seismic data from moonquakes tell us that the moon >>reverberates like a bell up to several hours after an initial >>shock. This data also indicates that the moon is a hollow sphere >>because the shockwaves travel along the surface but not into the >>interior of the moon. >Has anyone calculated "how hollow" the moon could be and still >produce the rather substantial ocean tides down here? I think the answer is that as long as the Moon's mass is roughly distributed in a spherically-symmetric fashion (as both a solid sphere and a hollow sphere are), then it won't affect the tides either way. All these hollow moon factoids are based on a 1960s-level understanding of the Moon, or worse. As far as I can tell, none of the seismologists studying the Moon's structure today seem to be aware that their data "indicates that the moon is a hollow sphere" or indeed that "the shockwaves travel along the surface but not into the interior of the moon". In fact, this appears not to be true; we have learnt a good deal about the Moon's structure from seismic waves passing through the lunar interior. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/expmoon/Apollo15/A15_Experiments_PSE.html http://www.ig.utexas.edu/about/history/planetary.htm -- Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: 'Alien Autopsy Inquest' From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:24:24 +0100 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:27:04 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien Autopsy Inquest' Dear colleagues, I just wanted to inform you that I am now putting the finishing touches to yet another new book, this time I am the sole author. The Book is entitled 'Alien Autopsy Inquest' and it is the story so far of what is clearly _the_ most controversial film in the entire history of UFO research. The book features a great deal of hitherto unpublished material and comes fully illustrated. If you want to find out what has happened in the 10 years since the alien autopsy film first appeared on TV around the world, then 'Alien Autopsy Inquest' could well be the book for you. Further details on book availability and publication date to follow in due course. Regards, Philip Mantle. www.beyondroswell.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 New Address For CCCRN Office From: CCCRN News <cccrnnews.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:39:26 -0700 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:29:02 -0500 Subject: New Address For CCCRN Office CCCRN NEWS E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network April 23, 2005 http://www.cccrn.ca _____________________________ NEW ADDRESS FOR CCCRN OFFICE Please note new address and phone number for the CCCRN main office, as of May 1, 2005: 103 - 1240 St. Georges Avenue North Vancouver, BC V7L 3J1 604-988-5138 After over four years in the current location, I'm making a much-desired change, moving back to a smaller city (yet still close enough to Vancouver for convenience). While not in prime crop circle territory, it is a wonderful seaside community nonetheless, and the Fraser Valley agricultural area farther east, a local crop circle hot spot the last few years now, is still just a couple hours drive away. Also, because of continued problems with spam / viruses (despite filters) with the current web site host (Look), I am also now using my primary (Telus) e-mail address for all personal correspondence, whether crop circle related or otherwise: paulanderson.nul Please use this address in place of the previous one (paulanderson.nul); for any e-mail lists I'm on, I have already made the change. Within the next few months, I'm planning to move the web site over to Telus as well for hosting, my primary (and more reliable) internet server. - Paul _____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail To subscribe or unsubscribe, send an e-mail with either Subscribe CCCRN News or Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews.nul c. CCCRN, 2005 Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:17:19 -0400 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:29:53 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:09:25 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon <snip> >>Has anyone calculated "how hollow" the moon could be and still >>produce the rather substantial ocean tides down here? >Since the formula for gravitational attraction between any two >bodies such as the Earth and the Moon depends only on their >masses and the distance they are apart, these bodies can be >treated as point masses to obtain the observed results, in this >case the ocean tides produced by the Moon. It would not matter >if the Moon was irregular in shape or even hollow. To cause tides, mass is a factor, for sure. It would seem to me that the mass of an artificially constructed hollow moon would be very different from that of a solid moon, even with realistic density variations taken into account. Eleanor White Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:49:09 EDT Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:30:24 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:09:02 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:15 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>The Hill case was the first known US abduction. How then were >>there any "books on UFO abductions" for Betty Hill to be reading >>and to supposedly fabricate or confabulate her story from? >Not strictly true. There was already an abduction story in print >that of the Salzburg soldier which appeared in William Gordon >Allen's Spacecraft from beyond three dimensions. Exposition >Press, 1959 pp 136-38. The AVB story was going the rounds of >American ufology as samizdat as early as 1959 and first appeared >in the English language version of the SBEDV Bulletin in 1962. >Though these were among the earliest abduction survivor stories, >the general notion of people being abducted or kidnapped by >aliens had already become part of ufological culture. A moment's >thought will tell you that if indeed the Hill story had indeed >come out of the blue, ufologists would have consigned it to the >wpb straight away. On the contrary it was a story for which >ufology was ready. >For more details of the early history of the abduction motif, >sources for the Hill's story etc, see my articles at: >http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/revis01.html >Since they were written it's become clear that some kind of >abduction survivor stories were circulating, probably in >semi-pornographic men's magazine's much earlier. >Donald Keyhoe, as early as 1953, talks of a story of a salesman >and nurse being kidnapped by aliens in the desert (and the >context clearly suggests its a published story of some sort), >and Jacques Vallee in Anatomy of a Phenomena of the _alleged_ >kidnapping of Tom Brooke, in Florida in 1952. There may well >have been other stories circulating in sensational mags which >are now lost. >Of course I doubt that any of the other stories other than >Salzburg soldier could have influenced Betty Hill, but there is >good evidence that the story drew from a variety of ufological >as well as non-ufological sources. Okay so you agree Betty Hill could not possibly have read any nonexistent _books_ on _UFO abductions_ in 1961, since as you concede there were no _books_ on the subject. Betty Hill could not go to a bookstore or library and find a _book_ entitled like "Alien Kidnappings" in 1961 and then read up all about it. She would have had to comb and scour thousands of pages of the most obscure and marginal UFO and/or contactee literature to find a passing mention of the notion of abduction. Your examples of obscure references in literature Betty Hill surely knew nothing about only prove it. The AVB story was mentioned in a Moseley newsletter in 1959 as an alien sex story. The Hill case is not an alien sex story. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:28:58 -0700 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:30:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On >From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 06:22:59 EDT >Subject: Re: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On Reed >>From: Larry Bryant <overtci.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:56:04 -0500 >>Subject: Kathleen Anderson Issues Stinging Rebuke On Reed >>----- Forwarded Message ----- >>From: victorgm.nul (Victor Martinez) >>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:56:54 -0700 >>From: Kathleen Anderson <bankerquest.nul> >>To: Victor Martinez >>Re: The Jonathan Reed UFO Fraud "Alien in the Freezer," >>Wednesday, 4-20-05 >>I worked on the Reed case from the time it became public >>until the time it "went away." ><snip> >I didn't realize anyone considered the Jonathan Reed case to be >genuine. >I saw him a few years ago at the Laughlin UFO Conference, >shortly after his book was published. He was in a white suit, >looking more like a snake-oil salesman than an experiencer, >signing copies of his book. >On stage, he managed to squeak-out a few fake whimpers during >some semi-emotional moment. It was really pathetic; he was such >a terrible actor. He was emotionally supported by 2 other people >on stage, with links to his book (if I remember correctly). >After his presentation, a lady who worked in television >challenged his use of steady-cam for his video, before it had >come to the home market. He offered no explanation for the >amazingly smooth video taken while breathlessly running down the >trail of fear..... >What a fraud. He must have been laughing all the way to the >bank. But I wasn't laughing; it made me angry at him to see >people parting with their money - and their trust - and giving >it to this charlatan. "Dr. Reed" (real name Jonathan Bradley Ruttter) was at the IUFOC with his co-author Robert "Raith" (aka robert Aria) and Pam McCloud. I've heard mixed reviews of what happened, but my understanding is that anyone challenging the story during the Q&A was met with hostility. I did see the video of a presentation "Dr. Reed" did in San Diego where someone asking questions was met with clear resistance and yelled at. Considering over 600 to 700 people paid to hear "Dr. Reed" speak at the IUFOC, well, "Dr. Reed" wasn't the only one who cashed in on this obvious fraud. What is it, about $20 per person to attend a speaking event? Lowball on this one: 600 x $20 = $12,000 Pretty good for a few hours work. This doesn't even include book sales or any of the presentations "Dr. Reed" did during his con job of Latin Ameica. I'm amazed anyone would give this silly UFO scam an grain of credibility: http://www.ufowatchdog.com/exposed.html What's even more amazing is that some of the people promoting/supporting this con job are still doing the UFO talk circuit, even after making claims of alien nanotechnology and other scientific evidence... all of which never surfaced. Regards, Royce J. Myers III UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Don't Trip On Your Open Mind" Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Mars Dust Devils Caught In Action From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:32:29 +0200 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:31:49 -0500 Subject: Mars Dust Devils Caught In Action Source; BBC Online http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4474675.stm Friday, 22 April Mars Dust Devils Caught In Action One of the US space agency's robot rovers on the Red Planet has captured a whirlwind, or "dust devil", churning its way across a Martian plain. Spirit captured images of the dust devils on 15 April and 18 April, which have now been turned into an animation. They give mission scientists their best look yet at these mysterious planetary phenomena as they swirl across the surface of the Red Planet. The Spirit rover has been exploring Gusev Crater since January 2004. It has been using its navigation camera to routinely check for dust devils and began seeing the whirlwinds last month in individual frames captured with the camera. Kicking dust Mission scientist Dr Mark Lemmon, a rover team member from Texas A&M University in College Station, said: "We're hoping to learn about how dust is kicked up into the atmosphere and how the wind is interacting with the surface. "It's exciting that we now have a systematic way of capturing dust devils in movies rather than isolated still images." Similar phenomena - also called dust devils - occur on Earth. The Martian whirlwinds also resemble the tornadoes and waterspouts seen on our own planet. The ultimate cause of the Martian phenomena remains unknown, but may be related to rising air heated by sun-warmed rocks and soil. Intriguingly, rover engineers have noticed unexplained increases in the power available to Spirit. One possibility is that dust devils passing nearby or above the rover have been cleaning its solar panels. [See animation at: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20050421a.html --ebk] Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 24 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:35:26 -0500 Archived: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:32:28 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:49:09 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:09:02 +0100 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:15 EDT >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:20:50 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>The Hill case was the first known US abduction. How then were >>>there any "books on UFO abductions" for Betty Hill to be reading >>>and to supposedly fabricate or confabulate her story from? >>Not strictly true. There was already an abduction story in print >>that of the Salzburg soldier which appeared in William Gordon >>Allen's Spacecraft from beyond three dimensions. Exposition >>Press, 1959 pp 136-38. The AVB story was going the rounds of >>American ufology as samizdat as early as 1959 and first appeared >>in the English language version of the SBEDV Bulletin in 1962. >>Though these were among the earliest abduction survivor stories, >>the general notion of people being abducted or kidnapped by >>aliens had already become part of ufological culture. A moment's >>thought will tell you that if indeed the Hill story had indeed >>come out of the blue, ufologists would have consigned it to the >>wpb straight away. On the contrary it was a story for which >>ufology was ready. >>For more details of the early history of the abduction motif, >>sources for the Hill's story etc, see my articles at: >>http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/revis01.html >>Since they were written it's become clear that some kind of >>abduction survivor stories were circulating, probably in >>semi-pornographic men's magazine's much earlier. >>Donald Keyhoe, as early as 1953, talks of a story of a salesman >>and nurse being kidnapped by aliens in the desert (and the >>context clearly suggests its a published story of some sort), >>and Jacques Vallee in Anatomy of a Phenomena of the _alleged_ >>kidnapping of Tom Brooke, in Florida in 1952. There may well >>have been other stories circulating in sensational mags which >>are now lost. >>Of course I doubt that any of the other stories other than >>Salzburg soldier could have influenced Betty Hill, but there is >>good evidence that the story drew from a variety of ufological >>as well as non-ufological sources. >Okay so you agree Betty Hill could not possibly have read any >nonexistent _books_ on _UFO abductions_ in 1961, since as you >concede there were no _books_ on the subject. Betty Hill could >not go to a bookstore or library and find a _book_ entitled like >"Alien Kidnappings" in 1961 and then read up all about it. She >would have had to comb and scour thousands of pages of the most >obscure and marginal UFO and/or contactee literature to find a >passing mention of the notion of abduction. Your examples of >obscure references in literature Betty Hill surely knew nothing >about only prove it. The AVB story was mentioned in a Moseley >newsletter in 1959 as an alien sex story. The Hill case is not >an alien sex story. Brad (and all): I came across Jerry Clark's remarkable interview with Betty Hill in the January 1978 issue of Saga's UFO Report. Mrs. Hill struck me as authentic, without guile of any kind and no ulterior motivation(s) -- a nice lady by all accounts. As for the Villas-Boas/Hill connection, it might be, as I note elsewhere, that the "abductors" may have operated a little differently from 1957 to 1961 -- and the treatment of Villas-Boas would be different, since he was man, from that of Mrs. Hill. One might see how the Villas-Boas incident compares to how Barney Hill was treated by his "captors." Rich Reynolds Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 12:54:38 -0300 Archived: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:37:07 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:28:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:09:25 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>>Scientific and Historical Anomalies - The Engineered Moon >>>By Will Barkley >>>+ Seismic data from moonquakes tell us that the moon >>>reverberates like a bell up to several hours after an initial >>>shock. This data also indicates that the moon is a hollow sphere >>>because the shockwaves travel along the surface but not into the >>>interior of the moon. >>It is a fact that the lunar rocks and soil collected by the >>U.S. Apollo astronauts and the Soviet Luna robotic spacecraft >>have densities much higher than the average density of the Moon. >>This would mean that the density of the rocks within the Moon >>are much lower for the average density of the Moon to be >>conserved. Since few rocks on Earth have such low densities, >>this suggests that large regions in the interior the Moon may be >>hollow. This is also supported by the observed gravitational >>pertubations of spacecraft in orbit around the Moon. >The gravitional perturbations are due to MASCONS or mass >concentrations, likely metallic remains of objects that impacted >the Moon or upwellings from the dense core after major impacts. >If you have a report or data that show hollow cavities on the >Moon, please provide it. >>If the Moon, like the Earth (as we believe), had time to cool >>down from their early hot molten states, the lighter or less >>dense material would float to the top. This is just the opposite >>on the Moon! This strange fact can be explained if the material >>collected on the surface of the Moon was not actually part of >>the Moon but higher density material from meteoroids accumulated >>over long periods of time or, as some others have reasonably >>concluded based on this and other evidence (including seismic >>data), the Moon is a massive thick shelled hollow metallic >>sphere (an ET Noah's Ark UFO which entered our solar system in >>ancient times and parked itself in a circular orbit around our >rare habitable world?). >Reading the Apollo preliminary science reports show a different >picture of the lunar geology from what you describe. For the >Apollo 17 PSR, pg 11-9, it states that the Moon is characterized >by a rigid, dynamically inactive outer shell, about 1000 km >thick surrounding a core that has markedly different elastic >properties. The lunar core is assumed to be at or near the >melting point thus much weaker than the outer layer. In the >Apollo 14 PSR, pg 154, it has a nice picture of how the seismic >waves are scattered with the scattering zone of about 50-100 km >thick on the surface. >Can you point for me what document has the "bell" ringing >assertion and what reputable scientist stated that the Moon was >hollow? >Looking at some of the links of the above article showed some >true statements (detection of water ions on the Moon), but >others seem to be misinterpretations. It makes sense to me that the inner core being nearly pliable, at or near the melting point, and perhaps less conductive to sound waves than the outer 1,000 kms thickness of shell, that sound would reverberate around the outer shell rather than straight through the body. A poor analogy would be a hard boiled egg. If one scratched one side of the egg, with a pickup sensor on the other, the sound would transmit more readily around the eggshell structure than straight through the near-hard white and the yolk. I for one don't have much faith in a hollow metallic Moon theory as in the space ship sense of the word. On the other hand if there was some "alien" space faring intelligence observing us, then the Moon would be a good place to hang out. Don Ledger Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:38:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:50:45 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:43:16 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:37:19 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear ><snip> >>It is my recollection that the Villas-Boas case was known to >>the the Lorenzens of APRO but that they had not published it >>as of 1961. >Hi Bruce: >I think it was Antonio VB, thus the 'AVB' case so prominent >in the literature, APRO & FSR especially. >Regardless, the AVB case strongly bothers me. Brazilian sex >scenes with space aliens just don't ring true here. Some have >noted that AVB went on to become a lawyer. I don't even know >if that is a fact; if it is, that doesn't help much either. >No offense to honest barristers please! None taken Larry. Regarding lawyers and abductions, you may have seen the last few paragraphs of my earlier email (from "For now I'll conclude with a few, lighter-hearted comments" onwards) at the link below: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/feb/m19-014.shtml As for the criticisms of Aaron Sakulich that have been made on this List in this thread, I think it is important to keep in mind a distinction between (a) idiocy and (b) mere ignorance of some relevant facts. The latter condition can be cured (and many on this List could provide references to assist in this). The former condition is less easily rectified. I see no conclusive reason to believe that Mr Sakulich is afflicted by the former condition. Many people (sceptics and others) make remarks about UFO sightings which appear to be based on ignorance of certain relevant facts - many such people do not deserve to be called idiots or morons. Recently, I've been giving considerable thought to the most common misconceptions (based on ignorance of relevant evidence) about ufo sightings/witnesses that appear to be held by many people. In relation to many such misconceptions, there is in fact some common ground between the more informed ETH proponents and the more informed sceptics. I'd be interested in hearing about any attempts that have been made to have some ETH proponents and sceptics sit down together and formulate lists of points upon which they agree that would surprise many members of the public. (In court cases, a judge would expect both sides to agree written lists of agreed and non-agreed issues so that he can clearly see what issues are in dispute between the parties). I'm sure many members of this List could think of such points of agreement. I consider it a shame that the polarisation that exists in the UFO debate means that the common ground is often not recognised (or at least rarely expressed). I've been discussing one example of such apparent common ground on Joe McGonagle's ufologyinuk List recently - in relation to the view that "only idiots believe in UFOs". The view that "only idiots believe in UFOs" (or variations thereon, such as "only nutters report UFOs" or "only idiots bother investigating UFO reports) is one that I've heard friends and colleagues express. It is also one that has been implicit in quite a few recent press articles in the UK that I've read and/or helpfully been referred to by members of the ufologyinuk List (including Joe McGonagle, and also Robert Rosamond of BUFORA), including the articles at the following links: http://tinyurl.com/8dtwe http://tinyurl.com/8z2v5 http://tinyurl.com/dtwd9 I don't believe that I can be alone in hearing such dismissive views being expressed, and (with thanks to Eric Adams for the reference) note that Hynek's "The UFO Experience" (1972) contains a brief discussion (in Chapter 1) of the view that "UFOs are reported by unreliable, unstable, and uneducated persons". Unfortunately, the relevant discussion by Hynek does not include any direct quotations expressing that view, attributing it merely to the "public at large" as an alleged result of "bad press". However, despite a bit of effort during my spare time during the last couple of days, I have not found any explicit statements of such views by any sceptics of any note. Indeed, quite the contrary. For example, despite a suggestion that Klass has made such comments (and of course he has impliedly criticised a number of people that claim to have seen UFOs), in fact Klass makes the following comment in his "UFOs Explained" (in the Introduction): "Some skeptics dismiss the UFO question without investigation in the belief that reports come only from 'kooks'. This is not so, as numerous UFO cases analyzed in this book will demonstrate. Many come from seemingly honest, intelligent and often well- educated citizens, including scientists, law-enforcement officers and aircraft flight crews." Similarly, the Condon Report (which, to put it mildly, is not generally considered to be biased in favour of ETH proponents) includes a section by Aldora Lee on opinion polls relating to UFOs. That section suggests that in fact there is some evidence that the _greater_ their education, the _more_ likely people are to think that flying saucers are "real". Page 320 of the version of the Condon Report available online at the link below includes the following: "Although the relationships are not strong, the results of the 1966 Gallup poll suggest that education is related to opinions. The greater the education, the higher the proportion who indicated they have heard of flying saucers, who think they are real rather than the product of imagination and who believe that there are people somewhat like ourselves living on other planets." See: http://ncas.sawco.com/condon/text/s3chap07.htm So, whilst it seems that everyone agrees that some skeptics and/or members of the public think UFO reports only come from idiots/kooks, I'm still looking for an explicit quotation to this effect by any prominent individual. About the closest I've found in the last few days is in an article by Bruce Maccabee (at the link below) which quotes the editor of a magazine called "Applied Optics" referring to "UFO believers" as "99 and 44/100ths percent kooks." See: http://www.stardrive.org/maccabee.shtml I'm currently planning on writing more on this topic and will be (once I finish tidying up a preliminary draft of my UFO Chronology, which I _will_ finish at some point...) re-reading the rest of my collection of books by the most prominent skeptics (and SETI scientists) to attempt to find a few pithy quotations which explicitly express such dismissive views of UFO witnesses/believers generally, but I'd welcome any references, suggestions or recommendations anyone has. On the more positive side, I'm finding it a fairly trivial task to pull together quite a lot of material that opposes such dismissive views.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 UFO Tales Unite The Curious From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:39:41 -0500 Archived: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:39:41 -0500 Subject: UFO Tales Unite The Curious Source: The South Bend Tribune - South Bend, Indiana http://tinyurl.com/7kt7y April 24, 2005 UFO Tales Unite The Curious Rochester sightings recalled a year ago at state investigators' session. By Anita Munson Tribune Staff Writer ROCHESTER -- It's been a year since Bev Carpenter saw her first UFO hovering over her rural Fulton County farm, and she says her life hasn't changed all that much despite the fact that she's appeared on several national radio programs. Still, she was among the couple dozen people who gathered in Rochester Saturday for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) to learn more about the phenomena, and to share encounters with the unexplained. MUFON, headquartered in Littleton, Colo., is an international scientific organization of people who are seriously studying UFOs. It was founded in 1969 and has chapters across the United States, including Indiana. Indiana MUFON leaders gathered in Rochester Saturday for their state meeting because of what they term a "flap" that occurred there a little more than a year ago. A "flap" means several sightings occurred within a minimal time range. For Carpenter, it was around 10 p.m. on a Thursday night. Several of her friends and neighbors saw the disc-shaped object in the sky, as well. So, too, did Gene Winters and his wife, who live mid-way between Mexico and Denver in Miami County. A couple of Plymouth people also reported seeing the object. "That one we never solved," said Roger Sugden, assistant director of MUFON and an investigator who drove down to check things out along with Stuart Hill, a MUFON state section director. "And it was the best case we've come across in 10 years." Sugden noted that just about everyone who admitted seeing the craft was willing to speak with MUFON investigators, and in all of the reports from the area that night, people saw the craft over or near a body of water. Through interviews and conversations with officials at Grissom Air Reserve Base near Peru, Ind., "normal" aircraft and helicopters were ruled out as the suspect UFO. "In fact, a guy at Grissom told me, 'If it doesn't look like a KC-135 (Stratotanker), it's not ours,'" Sugden said. Sugden passed around photos upon which drawings of the disc had been made by hand. They all looked alike. A middle-aged couple who live outside Columbia City, Ind., asked Sugden if MUFON had investigated crop circles discovered north of Indiana 109 some five years ago, too. He confirmed that he had, and then showed slides of crop circles that had been proven to be hoaxes, or man-made, and those for which no rational explanation could yet be found. The Columbia City crop circles fell into the latter category, he said. Only the day before, he said, he'd been in Paulding, Ohio, near the state line, where a crop circle some 500 feet in diameter had been discovered almost three years to the day after Indiana had experienced its "largest UFO flap in Indiana history" in the same Columbia City vicinity. That experience, and others, prompted Sugden and some colleagues to form the Indiana Crop Circles Research Association, now in its second year. The group recently met at Serpent Mound, Ohio, and has been featured in UFO Magazine. Hill's presentation reminded guests that Indiana -- and Michiana -- has long been the site of UFO activity, and showed a slide of an 1897 issue of the Niles (Mich.) Weekly Mirror in which a "Vagrant of the Sky" was featured. Hill also pointed out that the sighting was long before the Wright Brothers came along with their flying machine. He offered up some noted scientists' research for additional reading and, showing the training he'd received as a young student, the retired Bayer Corp. engineer even gave a possible explanation of why we folks living in a three-dimensional world don't necessarily "see" the entirety of objects that may be coming from a four- or more-dimensional reality. Hill's writings on the subject will appear on the state MUFON Web site. Jim Delahanty and Don Dailey, also MUFON leaders, gave a history of classic Indiana UFO sightings and update on UFO literature before the meeting adjourned. For Carpenter, it was a chance to re-affirm she and her neighbors are not alone in their experience with the unknown. "All I know," she said to Hill, "is that I didn't believe until I saw that UFO last year. Now I'm catching myself always looking up to the sky -- just in case." Staff writer Anita Munson: amunson.nul Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director - Myers From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:16:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:58:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director - Myers >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:45:53 -0500 >Subject: Re: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:33:23 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director >>>From: Bland Pugh <flmufonsd.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:24:51 EDT >>>Subject: Donald Ware Not Florida MUFON Director >>>See: >>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/apr/m20-009.shtml >>>>Source: UFO Watchdog >>>>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/ware.html >>>>19-APR-05 >>>>MUFON Florida State Director Supports Reed UFO Fraud >>>>Donald Ware Says 'Dr. Reed' Book Is "Documentation Of An >>>>Important Event", Calls UFOWATCHDOG.COM "Disinformation >>>>Agents" >>>Donald Ware is not the Florida MUFON State Director nor has he >>>been in well over a decade. Currently I, Bland Pugh, hold that >>>position and have for the last five years - Charles Flannigan >>>for over ten year prior to that. >>>Thanks for the correction. >>The error has been corrected and a notice has been posted >>regarding the error. My apologies to the current state >>director. >Why is your error notice posted in faint text while the original >error is still there in bold print. Noting that Ware was the >former Florida State Director should have been made in passing >but instead it is in huge type at the beginning of the article. >I find nothing wrong with lambasting Ware over his support of >the Reed fraud but your heading almost gives the impression that >MUFON had something to do with it even though Ware was no longer >associated with them and hadn't been for quite a long time. I >find it misleading at best. You still call him the Florida State >Director in the article itself. >I suggest changing the title to DONALD WARE SUPPORTS REED UFO >FRAUD and leave any reference to MUFON out of the title. Appreciate the suggestion. The initial correction was done and no other changes will be made simply because someone isn't satisfied with the title of an article on my website or the font size used. If MUFON had something to do with the Reed UFO Fraud, I'd say it outright. Thanks.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: The Engineered Moon - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 15:00:19 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:02:01 -0400 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon - Hatch >From: Brett Holman <b.holman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 01:40:52 +1000 >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>From: Eleanor White<eleanor.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:44:30 -0400 >>Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>>+ Seismic data from moonquakes tell us that the moon >>>reverberates like a bell up to several hours after an initial >>>shock. This data also indicates that the moon is a hollow sphere >>>because the shockwaves travel along the surface but not into the >>>interior of the moon. >>Has anyone calculated "how hollow" the moon could be and still >>produce the rather substantial ocean tides down here? >I think the answer is that as long as the Moon's mass is >roughly distributed in a spherically-symmetric fashion (as both >a solid sphere and a hollow sphere are), then it won't affect >the tides either way. >All these hollow moon factoids are based on a 1960s-level >understanding of the Moon, or worse. As far as I can tell, none >of the seismologists studying the Moon's structure today seem to >be aware that their data "indicates that the moon is a hollow >sphere" or indeed that "the shockwaves travel along the surface >but not into the interior of the moon". In fact, this appears >not to be true; we have learnt a good deal about the Moon's >structure from seismic waves passing through the lunar interior. >http://www.lpi.usra.edu/expmoon/Apollo15/A15_Experiments_PSE.html >http://www.ig.utexas.edu/about/history/planetary.htm Hello Brett, Eleanor: This piqued my interest, so I Googled up some numbers and factoids on this page: http://www.solarviews.com/eng/moon.htm Since the distance to the Moon is well known (we bounced radar off the lunar surface for one thing), both angular and actual size is known: roughly 3476 kilometers in diameter for a radius half of that = 1738 km. With the lunar distance known (384,403 km) the total lunar mass is measurable, 7.349 e22 kg where e22 means ten to the 22nd power. Lunar volume is 4/3*pi*r^3 where pi = 3.14159 and * means X or 'multiplied by', and r is given above at 1738 km. I get 2.2 e10 cubic kilometers, but haven't checked my figures. I'm sure the scientists did however, they put up a _mean_ (average) density of 3.34 grams per cubic centimeter, Density of liquid water just above freezing is 1.0000 g/cc for comparison, making the moon's average density somewhat higher than that of solid granite or light metals .. about the same as mixed rocks and metals found on Earth. If the Moon were half hollowed out, the density of the solid outer part would have to be _twice_ that, something like 6.7 times the density or "specific gravity" of water... very unlikely. There is also the problem of how the Moon could possibly assume such a shape. The natural tendency is for hollow structures to collapse inward, if they are sufficiently massive like the moon is, and especially if bombarded with meteors, comets and debris over eons. Personally, I consider hollow-moon theories on a par with hollow Earth stories, and move on.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:38:14 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:13:10 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:35:26 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:49:09 EDT >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:09:02 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >>Okay so you agree Betty Hill could not possibly have read any >>nonexistent _books_ on _UFO abductions_ in 1961, since as you >>concede there were no _books_ on the subject. Betty Hill could >>not go to a bookstore or library and find a _book_ entitled like >>"Alien Kidnappings"in 1961 and then read up all about it. She >>would have had to comb and scour thousands of pages of the most >>obscure and marginal UFO and/or contactee literature to find a >>passing mention of the notion of abduction. Your examples of >>obscure references in literature Betty Hill surely knew nothing >>about only prove it. The AVB story was mentioned in a Moseley >>newsletter in 1959 as an alien sex story. The Hill case is not >>an alien sex story. >I came across Jerry Clark's remarkable interview with Betty Hill in >the January 1978 issue of Saga's UFO Report. >Mrs. Hill struck me as authentic, without guile of any kind and no >ulterior motivation(s) - a nice lady by all accounts. >As for the Villas-Boas/Hill connection, it might be, as I note elsewhere, >that the "abductors"may have operated a little differently from 1957 >to 1961 - and the treatment of Villas-Boas would be different, since >he was man, from that of Mrs. Hill. >One might see how the Villas-Boas incident compares to how Barney >Hill was treated by his "captors." To Rich and all Here is the opinion of Jerome Clark, in his text published in Alien Discussions, the proceedings of the 1992 conference at MIT (p. 16): "The Venezuelan (Brazilian) incident bears practically no resemblance to modern abductions, and Villas-Boas' - lacking as it does such details as missing time, physical examination, and constricted movement within the UFO (Villas-Boas was given the run of the ship following his intimate encounter - is mostly unlike other reports". I would add to that their hood hiding their face completely. Jerome Clark stresses that it was considered "almost thorougly unbelievable" by most ufologists. David Jacobs says the same in chapter 7 of UFOs and Abductions (University Press of Kansas, 2000). He notes the negative reaction of James McDonald when it was mentioned in 1967 by Coral Lorenzen in the book Flying Saucer Occupants: "What are the Lorenzens thinking of to run such a story?"(p 197). The first publication was made in 1965 in the British, Flying Saucer Review - that was a year after the treatment of the Hills by Dr Simon. So it seems clear that it had no influence at all on them. If I may add another comment, I sugget that there could be abductions by a number of different races, with different procedures. Another supposition could be that there have been a number of deceptive operations, perhaps for the purpose of casting ridicule on the subject. Villas-Boas might then be a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: The Engineered Moon - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:06:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:15:34 -0400 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon - Shough >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:17:19 -0400 >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:09:25 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon ><snip> >>>Has anyone calculated "how hollow" the moon could be and still >>>produce the rather substantial ocean tides down here? >>Since the formula for gravitational attraction between any two >>bodies such as the Earth and the Moon depends only on their >>masses and the distance they are apart, these bodies can be >>treated as point masses to obtain the observed results, in this >>case the ocean tides produced by the Moon. It would not matter >>if the Moon was irregular in shape or even hollow. >To cause tides, mass is a factor, for sure. It would seem to me >that the mass of an artificially constructed hollow moon would >be very different from that of a solid moon, even with realistic >density variations taken into account. Eleanor The moon's mass is whatever it is, hollow or not. I assume you are not doubting that the moon's mass is the mass needed to account for its contribution to the tidal effect of gravity on the earth's oceans? The point is that it doesn't matter how this mass is distributed, as Nick pointed out. It can be treated as a mathematical point. A proof that this is true was one of the major king-pins of Newton's theory. So unless you are querying the foundations of the theory, the actual variation in the tides, or the mass of water, you are actually querying not the mass of moon but the density of the moon, which has no terrestrial gravitational effect. It could have the density of a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Chupacabras Documentary Airs Tomorrow Night From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami.nul> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:40:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:42:41 -0400 Subject: Chupacabras Documentary Airs Tomorrow Night Dear friends, We invite you to see the new documentary, Chupacabras, produced by Animal X, on the U.S. Animal Planet TV channel , tomorrow, Tuesday, April 26th, 2005 at 9.00 p.m. We were interviewed and would like to hear your comments.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' - From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:17:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:55:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' - >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:29:05 -0700 >Subject: Re: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >>From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700 >>Subject: Mexican Air Force FLIR Lights Case 'Closed' >>I waited many months for the opportunity to provide new evidence >>on the Mexican Air Force UFO case from march 05, 2004. I tried >>hard to perform by myself the experiment of flying closer to the >>Cantarell oil field as to recreate the C26A flight. The full >>cost for that flight was about US $2,500 and I couldnt spend >>that much. >>My theory, at least for me, is finally confirmed and the Mexican >>Air Force UFO case of march 05, 2004 is closed. In april 14, >>2005 I was lucky enough to record a video that shows the >>Cantarell oil flames group that matches the same lights as those >>in the Mexican Air Force FLIR video regardless that it was >>recorded in a different route, altitude and angle of view. >Capt. Franz, Hello Mr. Deardorff >Could you give us some details about your photos? In particular, >those at www.alcione.org/FAM/APR_14_05/ Those photos are still images taken from the original video recorded the 14th of april, 2004 _58 MB_. The program I used to pick up those pictures is _Windows Movie Maker_ which is available for download with Windows XP Service Pack 2. It can be downloaded at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/updates/moviemaker2.mspx Pictures starting with _14_04_2005_ are from Windows Movie Maker. Pictures at the bottom starting with _DSC0_ are from SONY camera DCR-TRV18 memory stick. >At a minimum, we need to be informed of the approximate distance >away from the closer of the Cantarell oil flames, and the >direction in which the camera was pointing, for each image. I am not a scientist, I used a calculation chart in the following site: http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/LatLong.html You can input the next data of the 'triplets' AKAL-J and AKAL-C: AKAL-J 19 deg 25 min 41 sec N 092 deg 04 min 31 sec W (zero before 92) AKAL-C 19 deg 23 min 57 sec N 092 deg 02 min 20 sec W (zero before 92) Airplane's position (GPS) at the time of recording: 19 deg 38 min 04 sec N 091 deg 21 min 08 sec W (zero before 91) The results are: Distance to AKAL-C: 76.57km Bearing to AKAL-C: 250deg.8'15" Distance to AKAL-J: 79.17km Bearing to AKAL-J: 253deg.16'17" Data of the above is from the photo taken of the video at: http://www.alcione.org/FAM/06_45.jpg >I have tried to make a "match" of the lights on your video >images with the anomalous FLIR images. Have others on this list >tried this? It's the actual analysis of the "match" that needs >presentation and discussion. MATCH: 4.-) Something that resembles or harmonizes with or be compatible, 18.-) Similar or consistent; coincide in their characteristics. Source: http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=match My composite image showing match of lights: http://www.alcione.org/FAM/1404m1a.jpg >The closest similarity I find is that of your image showing a >group of 5 lights on the left and a group of four on the right, >in comparison with the "double triplet" formation in the FLIR >image. They bear a vague similarity to each other, despite the >different number in each of the two groups, because in each case >at least two of the bright spots in each group are oriented in a >horizontal alignment. Maybe that's because of a different angle of view and altitude or elevation. >To begin to obtain a match, I would have to assume that two new >oil flames (let me call them "bright spots") were established in >the left-hand group some time in the past year, and one new one >in the right-hand group. Yes, new lights appear in the scene and that is because some 'booms' are not always burning. It depends of the excess of gas that needs to be burned off at different hours and specific PEMEX production processes. The gases for flaring have a time-varying composition. See _Production of petroleum by the Mexican oil industry_: http://www.alcione.org/FAM/2003Villasenor.pdf Take a look at this differences: AKAL-J without fifth burning 'boom' flame http://www.seacomcanada.com/MVC-029.JPG AKAL-J with fifth burning 'boom' flame http://www.alcione.org/FAM/AKAL_J_PMX.jpg AKAL-J (LANDSAT7) without fifth burning 'boom' flame http://www.alcione.org/FAM/akalJ2sm.jpg >This seems more probable than that during the taking of the >"double triplet" FLIR images as the aircraft flew along, two >bright spots in the left-hand group (the "lagging" triplet) >were continually blocked out by clouds while the other three >were not, and that one in the right-hand ("leading triplet") >group was also always blocked out while the other three >were not. (See Maccabee's website for FLIR images of >the "double triplet": >http://brumac.8k.com/MexicanDOD5mar04/ Fig. 41. Explained above. I think it is only a speculation. Dr. Maccabee's work is not complete and accurate as it could be. His work is very extensive but based on a copy of the original video and by that his results are in some way relative and speculative. I didn't find in his work any relation to Magnetic Declination _variation_ in the sighting area which that day was 3deg. 0' East changing by 0deg. 6' W/year. By that _variation_ the azimuth readings of the FLIR camera in his investigation must be corrected for better results because that implies some significant milliradian variation. Visit this site and input Latitude 19 25 41 Longitude 092 04 31 and date march 05, 2004 to verify the data: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/struts/calcDeclination We need, if the team of 'experts' of Maussan can get from the Mexican Air Force, a special flight to recreate the march 05, 2004 sighting. There must be a official statement and I think that is not going to happen. The SEDENA has declared is not going to provide nothing because of the wrong use of the video delivered to a journalist instead to qualified and honest UFO researchers. Now that the relations with the Mexican military General Clemente Vega Garcia Secretary of Defense from Mexico's SEDENA are as open and cordial as it was claimed here we hope to have soon a Military statement as it should have been since the beginning. Also there must be some records or paperwork copies of what the Mexican Air Force experts did and what kind of methodology they used to finally declared that they didn't know what was the origin of the FLIR video lights. We need to know what are the expertise comments from the APS- 143B(V)3 OceanEye radar from Telephonics company who is the manufacturer and also how the maintenance program has been followed by the Mexican Air Force technicians thinking of a possible Radar malfunction that day. We need to know what are the records and logbooks from the FLIR and Radar equipment, also the C26A Merlin weight and balance manifesto from that day of the sighting so we can get information about the 'lift' of the airplane called Mean Aerodynamic Chord (MAC). And there also was some roll and yaw during flight. There where eight members on board and the equipment weight created an angle of attack that must have changed the FLIR's horizontal calibration because the FLIR and Radar separate Gyros take their first erection power when on the ground and before take off. >I would also have to assume that in Fig. 41 the bright spot on >the left of the lagging triplet was no longer present a year >later, and the bright spot on the right of the leading triplet >was no longer present a year later. Below I've tried to depict >the differences graphically; look for o's: Explained above. >The double-triplet formation of March 5, 2004: > o > oo oo > o Not enough data to conclude any comments. >Franz's images of the two groups, April 2005: > ooo >o o > ooo > o >(In the lower depiction, the two groups should be some 20% >further apart still.) >Besides these needed assumptions, we cannot even begin to assume >that the two groups illustrated here from Franz's video images >are the same as the two "triplet" groups of the FLIR image. Can we assume lack of critical thinking or Mind closeness? >Upon measuring the ratio, R, of the spacing between the two >sets of triplets divided by the average width of each triplet, >I obtain R = 2.9 (measuring from the centers of the bright >spots, Fig. 41.) Again, your results are vague and lacking of data. Fig. 41 belongs to a _NRWX2_ field of view _FOV_ frame which has a 0.4deg X 0.3deg angular size. Maximum zoom. >Upon doing the same for the left-hand and right-hand groups >of 5 or 4 in Franz's images, I obtain R = 10.7 +/- 1.0 (std from >three different images). >The distinction between 2.9 and 10.7 is far too large for me to >dismiss. Did you, Capt. Franz, have some other patterns within >the images in mind in calling for a match? Match explained above. There are oil well lights in that area, and the group of lights in my recording match those lights in the FLIR videos and images. Please visit the site where the results are shown: http://www.alcione.org/FAM/FLIR_CONCLUSION.html >The value of utilizing the ratio, R, is that, when the bright >spots are situated more or less along a line, and are quite far >away, this ratio is invariant to appreciable changes in distance >away, and in changes to angle of viewing orientation. Maybe that's because distant objects closer to the horizon are seen at the same level or sighting angle? See: http://www.alcione.org/ARTIF_HORIZON/index.html >Perhaps the best known picture of the "double triplets," is the >one in which they had the configuration below: > oo oo >o o To hard to understand. Pictures and video show better data. >A further asumption, if not invoking UFOs, is needed to explain >why this configuration differs from that of Maccabee's Fig. 41, >yet also doesn't begin to have the configuration of the two >groups in Franz's pictures. Maccabee's Fig. 41 and his results are not the 'panacea' of this case. We must rely on the evidences and not speculate. >Conclusion: no match is apparent to me. I respect your opinion, I prefer my evidence. There is a clear match. Best regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:34:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:56:13 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:38:14 +0200 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:35:26 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:49:09 EDT >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:09:02 +0100 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear Hi, Gildas, >Here is the opinion of Jerome Clark, in his text published in Alien >Discussions, the proceedings of the 1992 conference at MIT (p. 16): >"The Venezuelan (Brazilian) incident bears practically no >resemblance to modern abductions, and Villas-Boas' - lacking as >it does such details as missing time, physical examination, and >constricted movement within the UFO (Villas-Boas was given the >run of the ship following his intimate encounter - is mostly >unlike other reports". For a moment I thought I'd confused Brazil with Venezuela, which I would never do in any normal state of consciousness. I went to the article (titled "A Brief History of the UFO-Abduction Phenomenon") and found that I was referring to two separate proto-abduction claims, one: "In December 1954 several violent nocturnal confrontations between Venezuelans and UFO beings, described as small, hairy, and clawed, allegedly occurred, and in one instance the creatures tried to drag a witness into a craft." And two: "In another celebrated instance, said to have happened in October 1957, a young Brazilian man, Antonio Villas-Boas...." I go on to point out that there is little resemblance between these incidents and the abduction phenomenon that would emerge in later decades -- though of course the V-B case anticipates sexual elements (and, one might argue, hybrids, the subject incidentally of an extraordinarily interesting DNA- based investigation being conducted these days by ufologist/chemist Bill Chalker and a team of scientists in Australia; see the current issue of International UFO Reporter, available from CUFOS). To appreciate how little prepared ufologists were for the modern abduction phenomenon, one has only to read Walt Webb's report to NICAP of his initial investigation of the Hill CE3 (not suspected to be an abduction then). He overlooks significant parts of the testimony and rationalizes away portions that would later be seen as seminal. The Hill episode was something so new and novel that ufologists failed to recognize it for what it signified till years later. It is important to turn to primary sources whenever possible. There, while doing historical research for my encyclopedia in the 1990s, I found the occasional intriguing but overlooked and not-understood reference to things that sound much like missing time that is central to the Hill case and, of course, to many others that would occur in its wake. The Hills presented even the most sophisticated ufologists -- and Webb certainly can be so described -- with aspects of the UFO phenomenon for which they had no preparation. That's one reason, maybe _the_ reason, it remains so important in the history of ufology. In the encyclopedia I wrote, in words that to me still make more sense most others that I've read, especially by debunkers who, as is their wont, find deeply threatening any hint of ambiguity and unanswered question, "The resolution of the Hill case awaits the resolution of the UFO question itself. If UFOs do not exist, then Barney and Betty did not meet with aliens. If UFOs do exist, they probably did. The evidence available to us from this incident alone provides no answers surer than these. In other words, no answers at all. For now, anyway."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:43:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:58:12 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:38:14 +0200 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:35:26 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:49:09 EDT >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:09:02 +0100 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear ><snip> >Here is the opinion of Jerome Clark, in his text published in Alien >Discussions, the proceedings of the 1992 conference at MIT (p. 16): >"The Venezuelan (Brazilian) incident bears practically no >resemblance to modern abductions, and Villas-Boas' - lacking as >it does such details as missing time, physical examination, and >constricted movement within the UFO (Villas-Boas was given the >run of the ship following his intimate encounter - is mostly >unlike other reports". >I would add to that their hood hiding their face completely. >Jerome Clark stresses that it was considered "almost thorougly >unbelievable" by most ufologists. David Jacobs says the same in >chapter 7 of UFOs and Abductions (University Press of Kansas, >2000). He notes the negative reaction of James McDonald when it >was mentioned in 1967 by Coral Lorenzen in the book Flying >Saucer Occupants: "What are the Lorenzens thinking of to run >such a story?"(p 197). The first publication was made in 1965 >in the British, Flying Saucer Review - that was a year after the >treatment of the Hills by Dr Simon. So it seems clear that it >had no influence at all on them. >If I may add another comment, I sugget that there could be >abductions by a number of different races, with different >procedures. Another supposition could be that there have been a >number of deceptive operations, perhaps for the purpose of >casting ridicule on the subject. Villas-Boas might then be a >case in point. Who knows? Thanks, Gildas: Clark has extensive material all over the place, and being prolific as he is, and at the "scene" of UFOs for so many years, one can only bow to his erudition on the subject, and total expertise. In the matter of Villas-Boas, we received in the 70s a tale that the CIA was the progenitor of his abduction. We have the material online but discounted it then, and recently until we discovered that the guy who told us the tale was indeed a CIA operative, and was in Brazil during the Villas- Boas time-frame.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 The Engineered Moon From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:45:21 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:27:40 -0400 Subject: The Engineered Moon Regarding this topic of possible alien presence on the Moon, I know many folk have inferred that the tracks seen on the Moon are due to aliens. I found a NASA report that goes into a lot of technical analysis of the rolling stones on the Moon and has lots of equations that characterize the phenomena, but they do not say anything about how the round boulder gets there in the first place and why it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS - Beasley From: From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:18:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:29:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS - Beasley >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:22:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS >>From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:27:06 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:54:23 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>>Subject: Re: Possible UFO Sighting From ISS >>>I took the time to examine the orbit at the time of the EVA. >>>The opposite direction of the Sun would be almost in the >>>direction of the coast of South America. Examining the DMSP >>>lights database, strong lights seems to be coming from that area >>>from both oil rig gas flares AND fishing boats. (Note that the >>>DMSP database I consulted was for year 2000 and was average.) >I was able to download the DMSP images for March 27, 28,29 2005 >and the fishing boats lights are visible throughout the night >although the pattern varies depending on where the fleet and >individual ships are placed. Light cloud cover may actually >increase the apparent illumination like a frosted light bulb. >Hopefully this 'UFO' myth is stopped before it proceeds too far, >although I can foresee UFO authors of NASA UFO conspiracies >books/webpages including it in their list. Oh, I agree there. This event was most likely what Astronaut Chiao said it was, but it's not conclusive. He's a trained space traveler and spacewalker, though, and I thought it of note that even he can have difficulty explaining anomalous sights. >If anyone wants copies of the DMSP images, let me know. >>You're probably right, though what struck me funny in Chiao's >>statement was reference to the possibility that it was a >>constellation of satellites. Unless it was a very short period >>use constellation, they wouldn't have been below the ISS. It was >>merely interesting that he speculated that scenario. >You are right that it was interesting that he thought it was >satellites. But then, it gets very dark up there and if there >is no Moon illumination, very dark indeed, especially over the >ocean and with no city lights. If the fishing boats were near >the edge of the possible field of view of ISS, then there would >be NO other lights around, except for the sunrise and stars. It >is interesting that the fishing boats lights exceed city lights >nearby. I'm still wondering about him being spatially disoriented enough to not know where the horizon was and if he was looking at altitude or down towards the ocean below. Once again, this is a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: The Engineered Moon - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:42:50 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:30:50 -0400 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon - Dickenson >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:06:19 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >The point is that it doesn't matter how this mass is >distributed, as Nick pointed out. It can be treated as >a mathematical point. For most planetary calculations that's about right. But Moon and Earth are a bit close for Newtonian theoretical calculations of _all_ effects. i.e. perfect eclipses - exact Earth/Moon/Sun alignments - give stronger tidal _and_ earthquake-trigger effects, because there's a maximum of Moon mass lined up. The eclipse of 1999 caused immediate heavy quakes in Greece and Turkey, followed by rolling series of quakes across Eurasia - ending at the Pacific rim with huge quakes (in Taiwan / Japan?). Yes, the quakes followed the track of the eclipse-shadow, as forecast. And soon as bodies get closer than largest radius, the Newtonian m1.m2/d^2 breaks down anyway. Try "an effect called gravity" in Google, for one mass beneath the surface of another. Cheers Ray D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: The Engineered Moon - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:57:37 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:31:54 -0400 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon - Balaskas >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:28:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:09:25 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon <snip> >>It is a fact that the lunar rocks and soil collected by the U.S. >>Apollo astronauts and the Soviet Luna robotic spacecraft have >>densities much higher than the average density of the Moon. This >>would mean that the density of the rocks within the Moon are >>much lower for the average density of the Moon to be conserved. >>Since few rocks on Earth have such low densities, this suggests >>that large regions in the interior the Moon may be hollow. This >>is also supported by the observed gravitational pertubations of >>spacecraft in orbit around the Moon. >The gravitional perturbations are due to MASCONS or mass >concentrations, likely metallic remains of objects that impacted >the Moon or upwellings from the dense core after major impacts. >If you have a report or data that show hollow cavities on the >Moon, please provide it. Hi James! Even after the many unmanned lunar orbiting spacecraft by the Soviets and the Americans, including the 9 manned Apollo flights to the Moon (and the Soviet spacecraft "manned" with other living passengers from Earth which got there first with Zond 5), which nearly all had very similar equatorial orbits, it was only after Clementine (a Department of Defense spacecraft) in 1994 and NASA's Lunar Prospector more recently in 1998 with their near polar orbits that we were able to get a much better idea of the actual distribution of these still mysterious MASCONs that produce greatly varying gravity fields over the lunar surface. With the same physics/mathematical technique used to obtain 3-D images of inside one's body we can now accurately map the 3-D distribution of these higher density MASCONs too. Although the results so far conflict with the popular scientific theories of the interior of the Moon and agree more with an Engineered Moon, we do not have the sufficient resolution at this stage to identify smaller regions of much lower mass concentrations, including hollow cavities and networks of tunnels. This should change after the arrival of an "International Armada" of lunar spaceprobes over the next few years... >>If the Moon, like the Earth (as we believe), had time to cool >>down from their early hot molten states, the lighter or less >>dense material would float to the top. This is just the opposite >>on the Moon! This strange fact can be explained if the material >>collected on the surface of the Moon was not actually part of >>the Moon but higher density material from meteoroids accumulated >>over long periods of time or, as some others have reasonably >>concluded based on this and other evidence (including seismic >>data), the Moon is a massive thick shelled hollow metallic >>sphere (an ET Noah's Ark UFO which entered our solar system in >>ancient times and parked itself in a circular orbit around our >>rare habitable world?). >Reading the Apollo preliminary science reports show a different >picture of the lunar geology from what you describe. For the >Apollo 17 PSR, pg 11-9, it states that the Moon is characterized >by a rigid, dynamically inactive outer shell, about 1000 km >thick surrounding a core that has markedly different elastic >properties. The lunar core is assumed to be at or near the >melting point thus much weaker than the outer layer. In the >Apollo 14 PSR, pg 154, it has a nice picture of how the seismic >waves are scattered with the scattering zone of about 50-100 km >thick on the surface. >Can you point for me what document has the "bell" ringing >assertion and what reputable scientist stated that the Moon was >hollow? >Looking at some of the links of the above article showed some >true statements (detection of water ions on the Moon), but >others seem to be misinterpretations. James, Although you are not a geologist/geophysicist, you can still do the research to convince yourself rather than have me do it for you. Check out the many published articles about the Moon in scientific journals such as "Icarus" (which was edited by our fellow skeptic friend Carl Sagan), or even do a simple Google search, to convince you that our mysterious Moon is full of surprises and, despite what you believe, it is not at all well understood. We need to go back to our nearest neighbour in space soon. Only then will be able to say for sure if our Moon is either a natural world or an artifically engineered world. In my opinion the facts we have so far can be easily and best interpreted as the later case. You may have heard that theories or revealed truths go through three distinct stages; first an idea goes unnoticed or is ignored, then it goes through a period of vicious attack or denial and finally it is accepted by all as a self evident truth. There was even a time when we believed there was no water on the surface of the Moon and now we are making prelimary plans to establish a self sustaining manned base on the Moon based on much less than conclusive evidence that there is water within those deep polar craters of the Moon. I think the Engineered
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 25 Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Allan From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:08:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:36:09 -0400 Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Allan >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:35:03 -0500 >Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:40:50 +0100 >>Subject: ETH Case For UFOs [was: UFO Couple Use Story...] >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:40:40 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >Wow! You think? Seriously, don't you presume any error must be >on _my_ side of the equation in your conjectured evaluation, and >that a self-styled poet warrior aspiring to duty, honor, and >courage... willing to sacrifice 50K a year for the last five >years to prosecute an injustice beyond reason or insult... can't >hold a sputtering candle to the 'conventional wisdoms' of a >hijacked mainstream known for its data _driving_ proclivities, >proclivities to the detriment of its data _driven_ ones? Is it >_my_ intellectual cowardice, _my_ ignorance, _my_ duplicity, >_my_ betrayal of the trust, _my_ dishonor? I think not. >>It is these >>initial six words that cause skepticism and rejection by >>science. >You won't be a scientist if you'd drive rather than be driven, >Mr. Allan. The lot you describe has betrayed their trust and so >abdicated the high ground to which you would allude _and_ >appeal. To a growing segment of persons, with regard to the >subject at hand, your heroes (by their own hand, I add) become >increasingly irrelevant. Tell me about rocks and ice cores, Sir, >but avoid telling me what your mainstream says about UFOs. The >stench of cant and bias... and cowardice... is too strong. I >don't have to accept it. I won't validate _your_ faith. >>Choice of such adjectives is always open to dispute & >>debate. But then so is the whole UFO subject. (surprise!) >That's not my problem, forgetting your statement connotes a faux >admonition that UFOs are _ultimately_ giggleable and so one must >be 'careful' to express themselves in a calm measured >'scientific' tone so as not to arouse the imps of ridicule or >the trolls of derision. I don't have a lot of respect for any of >that kind of that, just described, paradigm... forgetting that >the respect has in no way has been, remotely, earned, with >insult added to injury later on. With regard to you and yours I >am eyes askance and arms akimbo. Your 'laughter' is >inappropriate, self-deluding, and increasingly more strained as >time accelerates. >>One example: "available physical evidence". Where is it? Can >>anyone go and see it, or touch it? Is is genuinely "available"? >Ok -- now see... this is exactly what I'm talking about. You >_must_ remember we've already gone over this before, but which >you apparently plowed into and got stopped like the coyote in an >old roadrunner cartoon... One word... just to start... >Phillips... Next. Perhaps I should have made myself clear that by "available physical evidence" I was referring to actual hardware, i.e. pieces from a crashed UFO, even a whole UFO, or possibly one of Dr Leir's implants. (Are any of the latter available by the way?) Something that can be scientifically analysed and withstand the analysis. Something that points irrefutably to ETH. Maury Island & Ubatuba provide two well known examples, but neither, unfortunately, passed the acceptance tests. Nor have any of the fragments allegedly emanating from Roswell. The evidence you refer to is classed as physical trace evidence (holes in the ground, altered vegetation, radiation effects, etc). Interesting yes, but this kind of evidence is very transient and hardly qualifies as "available physical evidence". Ted Phillips, for all his efforts, has not, I think, obtained any real hardware. I am sure you, or he, will correct me if I am wrong. >>(UFO bits & pieces allegedly stored in top secret vaults would >>be classed as "unavailable"). >>Another: can you give just one example of "vetted photographic >>evidence" that points irrefutably to ETH (as opposed to it being >>merely an unknown)? >Mr. Allan! You astonish me! You are the living breathing example >of the fact that their is no such thing as 'proof', only >evidence that will be accepted as 'proof' to a collection of >persons to varying degrees. Smarter men than you and me accept >as proof such as what you would obviously _not_ accept, Sir. No >points here. >>Please, please, do not refer me to any of the following: >>Adamski, Billy Meier, Gulf Breeze, or any of the voluminous >>but useless camcorder stuff from Mexico. >Oh and please, please... please... don't insult the intelligence >of every person reading (with the remotest interest in UFOs) >that you are the least bit interested, Sir, in being referred to >a photograph or a person that can't be shown to have come up >with fleas because it may (or may not!) have been down with some >dogs. That would set up your little "strawman" argument nicely, >wouldn't it? Moreover, your airy dismissal of Adamski, Billy >Meier, Gulf Breeze, or any of the "voluminous but useless >camcorder stuff from Mexico" (fairly dripping bigotry I add), in >no way addresses what it is, or was, that keeps them compelling >and controversial to this day. Yours is the convenient dismissal >of the little man, Sir. Based on _some_ of your posts, I would >have thought that _that_ would be beneath you. >>Also please, if possible, say who did the vetting. >Talk to Richard Hall, Jerry Clark, Stanton Friedman et sig al. >You know who to talk to... I only have to convince _myself_, >Sir. I wouldn't give a fig for anyone, like yourself, who >_won't_ be convinced... of self-involved need. We're not the >center of the universe Mr. Allan, get used to it. Are you correct here? None of the above three has to my knowledge performed any photographic vetting or analysis. Certainly there are some ufologists who have (but their findings are always disputed) but not Hall, Clark or Friedman. Again, if I am wrong they can soon set me right. The trouble is that for everyone who loudly claims "this photo is the proof we have been waiting for", there is always someone who responds "oh no it isn't, there are flaws here and there", etc. Look at Trindade for example. But this "vetting", as you put it, ought to be done by an independent scientific body. (The Turin Shroud had three independent analyses done on it) . And all such photos, of whatever form, must pass strict scrutiny by this body and, moreover, point directly to ETH, before they satisfy the description "vetted photographic evidence". Simply to finish the analysis with the conclusion "an unidentified object" is inadequate where proof of ETH is concerned. Mainstream science has not been "hijacked" as you claim ( by whom was it hijacked?). It has its own standards, rightly strict ones, before acceptance of a phenomeon like UFOs as proof of ETH. Just as it would demand a very high quality of evidence before accepting the receipt of SETI messages as proof of ETH. Two centuries ago meteorites were eventually accepted by mainstream science. (Perhaps this was in pre-hijacking days) It was a long long wait, but ultimately the evidence became overpowering and forced meteorites into acceptance. Ball lightning had to fight its way too.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 26 Re: ETH Case For UFOs - King From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:38:44 -0400 Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs - King >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:08:09 +0100 >Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:35:03 -0500 >>Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:40:50 +0100 >>>Subject: ETH Case For UFOs [was: UFO Couple Use Story... ] >>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:40:40 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >Mainstream science has not been "hijacked" as you claim ( by >whom was it hijacked?). It has its own standards, rightly strict >ones, before acceptance of a phenomeon like UFOs as proof of >ETH. Just as it would demand a very high quality of evidence >before accepting the receipt of SETI messages as proof of ETH. <snip> Forgive me for stepping in here... Alfred's familiar cry of a duplicitous "hijacking" of mainstream science reflects a definite reality. As mainstream science has grown quite dependent on government... for funding, but also as a consumer of data on which to form policy... the current ideology demonstrated by the government has indeed run counter to mainstream science. Even back in 2004, this was noted and reported: http://www.energybulletin.net/2795.html ... for example. The government has ignored scientific data on... global warming - American mainstream science says it exists... govt. says nope. energy - American mainstream science says we could eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels by investing in alternatives... govt doesn't say nope, but tosses so few crumbs at it that it might as well have said nope. nuclear proliferation - American mainstream science says we should stop testing and sign onto the Kyoto treaty... govt. says nope. stem cell research - American mainstream science says it could revolutionize medicine... govt. says nope. weapons of mass destruction - Mainstream science (in this case, the men on the ground doing the "science" of detecting WMDs) says Iraq has none... govt. (relying on 2nd and 3rd-hand testimony from vengeful exiles) says nope. oil drilling - American mainstream science says drilling in ANWR will not help our energy problem at all... govt. says nope. air and water pollution - American mainstream science says current enacted laws do more harm than good... govt. says nope. prescription drugs - American mainstream science says pharmaceutical companies are rushing meds to market with insufficient testing and reaping obscene profits while Legislation is making litigation for resulting damages either less likely or completely impossible. the death penalty - American mainstream science notes that the death penalty provides no deterrent for the vast majority of crimes resulting in death... govt. says nope. illegal drug laws - American mainstream science reports that the drug problem could be more effectively fought as a health issue... govt. says nope. and even how to run an election - American mainstream science finds that the 2004 election was rife with anomalous polling data, and should be carefully scrutinized... govt says nope. Oh, and they don't look too kindly on UFO data, either. Although that's easy, since mainstream science doesn't, either... <g> Unfortunately, since the government pays for much of this science, it has the luxury of ignoring what is expedient to ignore. It also has the luxury of firing those mainstream scientists who don't toe the party line... if they don't quit in disgust first. Evidence of this abounds. I'd call that hijacking, and I'd call it duplicitous, and I'd call it criminal, but the fact that mainstream science backs me up on these points does little to effect any change. Hijacked, indeed. >Perhaps one day the same will happen with UFOs. >Think of that! >CDA Short of a coup d'etat (seemingly Alfred's rhetorically inevitable end-game) or a major revelatory event, methinks perhaps not.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 26 More UFO Fleets Over Mexico From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:54:34 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:59:44 -0400 Subject: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico Two new UFO fleets were videotaped over Mexico city on April 11, 2005 by skywatcher Arturo Robles Gil adding more suspense to the very unusual UFO activity recorded recently over the world's most populated city, a mystery that keeps the Mexican people in a mixed state of excitement and uncertainty. The sighting took place in broad day light and began with a formation of seven objects, white luminous and sphere-shaped. Robles Gil made a good zoom shot into one of the objects and described it as an intense luminous light, like plasma energy. At this moment one of the objects broke formation and began performing maneuvers around the others as if it was intelligently controlled. Mr. Robles Gil zoomed into this object and flight path around the other objects was clear and defined. Certainly intriguing images. But that was not all and more spectacular action was about to come. About 15 minutes later and still taping the seven objects, Mr. Robles Gil put his camera down for a second to rest his arm and turning his head aside got a big surprise and discovered a huge UFO fleet approachung, so he pointed the camera at the newcomers and continued taping. "There were more than a hundred luminous objects in the sky perhaps two hundred", said Arturo Robles Gil. "It was simply spectacular!!" The video now shows a full screen filled with luminous objects flying in perfect formation contrasting with the blue sky and white clouds in a scene that's hard to belive. This new evidence is now considered some of the most important to date, along with the Guadalajara July 10, 2004 footage by Miguel Avila and Miguel Dominguez. The mysterious UFO flotilla phenomena in our country due to the large amount of luminous objects in the sky, has been dubbed as "The Silent Invasion". This new footage, by Mr. Robles Gil, was aired on national television last Sunday, April 24, during the Los Grandes Misterios tv show hosted by Jaime Maussan. At the same time a new video was also shown from Torreon, Coahuila, presenting a UFO flotilla of at least 50 objects in the sky in similar formation to the other fleets taped in Mexico city. This video was filmed on March 30, 2005 and submitted by witness Mr. Guillermo Ortiz. The UFO Fleets phenomena has attracted the attention and interest of TVnetworks in the US and a Japanese TV crew is coming to make a documentary based on these sightings, interview witnesses, researchers and the people on the streets. This interest reflects the actual status of the Mexican UFO sightings, a subject that has always fascinated the international media. Our investigation on these unusual incidents continues, studying and analyzing every piece of information, testimonial and graphic evidence. The number of cases that we have on this UFO fleet phenomena is certainly large and the recent manifestations videotaped suggest that it's increasing in number for reasons yet to be defined. Despite the dedicated studies made of these UFO fleet sightings
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 26 Re: The Engineered Moon - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:32:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:33:33 -0400 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon - White >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:06:19 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon <snip> >The moon's mass is whatever it is, hollow or not. I assume you >are not doubting that the moon's mass is the mass needed to >account for its contribution to the tidal effect of gravity on >the earth's oceans? The point is that it doesn't matter how this >mass is distributed, as Nick pointed out. It can be treated as a >mathematical point. A proof that this is true was one of the >major king-pins of Newton's theory. So unless you are querying >the foundations of the theory, the actual variation in the >tides, or the mass of water, you are actually querying not the >mass of moon but the density of the moon, which has no >terrestrial gravitational effect. It could have the density of a >Swiss cheese or of a neutron star and the tides would still be >the same as long as its total mass remains one lunar mass. I understand what's been said about distribution of mass and density variations having no practical effect on tides. What I suspect is, a hollow moon, if the shell isn't hugely thick, probably could not cause the tides we observe. I wonder if anyone has calculated the _mass_ needed to cause the tides we observe. I doubt the moon is hollow. But, given the anti gravity technology the ETs clearly have, it wouldn't be a big surprise to me if they hauled the moon in from somewhere else for use as a base. A couple of years ago, and I have not verified this, I heard that the Naval Observatory noted a sudden change in the Earth's rotation speed, and a second sudden change a few days (?) later to bring the rotation speed back to normal. If that is true, it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 26 Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:19:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:38:33 -0400 Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Lehmberg >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:08:09 +0100 >Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:35:03 -0500 >>Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:40:50 +0100 >>>Subject: ETH Case For UFOs [was: UFO Couple Use Story...] >>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:40:40 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>Wow! You think? Seriously, don't you presume any error must be >>on _my_ side of the equation in your conjectured evaluation, and >>that a self-styled poet warrior aspiring to duty, honor, and >>courage... willing to sacrifice 50K a year for the last five >>years to prosecute an injustice beyond reason or insult... can't >>hold a sputtering candle to the 'conventional wisdoms' of a >>hijacked mainstream known for its data _driving_ proclivities, >>proclivities to the detriment of its data _driven_ ones? Is it >>_my_ intellectual cowardice, _my_ ignorance, _my_ duplicity, >>_my_ betrayal of the trust, _my_ dishonor? I think not. >>>It is these >>>initial six words that cause skepticism and rejection by >>>science. >>You won't be a scientist if you'd drive rather than be driven, >>Mr. Allan. The lot you describe has betrayed their trust and so >>abdicated the high ground to which you would allude _and_ >>appeal. To a growing segment of persons, with regard to the >>subject at hand, your heroes (by their own hand, I add) become >>increasingly irrelevant. Tell me about rocks and ice cores, Sir, >>but avoid telling me what your mainstream says about UFOs. The >>stench of cant and bias... and cowardice... is too strong. I >>don't have to accept it. I won't validate _your_ faith. >>>Choice of such adjectives is always open to dispute & >>>debate. But then so is the whole UFO subject. (surprise!) >>That's not my problem, forgetting your statement connotes a faux >>admonition that UFOs are _ultimately_ giggleable and so one must >>be 'careful' to express themselves in a calm measured >>'scientific' tone so as not to arouse the imps of ridicule or >>the trolls of derision. I don't have a lot of respect for any of >>that kind of that, just described, paradigm... forgetting that >>the respect has in no way has been, remotely, earned, with >>insult added to injury later on. With regard to you and yours I >>am eyes askance and arms akimbo. Your 'laughter' is >>inappropriate, self-deluding, and increasingly more strained as >>time accelerates. >>>One example: "available physical evidence". Where is it? Can >>>anyone go and see it, or touch it? Is is genuinely "available"? >>Ok -- now see... this is exactly what I'm talking about. You >>_must_ remember we've already gone over this before, but which >>you apparently plowed into and got stopped like the coyote in an >>old roadrunner cartoon... One word... just to start... >>Phillips... Next. >Perhaps I should have made myself clear that by "available >physical evidence" I was referring to actual hardware, i.e. >pieces from a crashed UFO, even a whole UFO, or possibly one of >Dr Leir's implants. (Are any of the latter available by the >way?) Uh huh... we'll forget for a moment that I may have heard it said that you, yourself, are incapable of accepting even the 'evidence' you challenge from me. But presuming, for a moment, your sincerity and intellectual honesty... and that you _are_ an innocent truthseeker wrapped, unfortunately, in your little Chinese takeout paradigm box of fearful homocentricity, one could hardly expect the errant warp drive, light saber, or other 'conclusive' technology to make itself readily available for the likes of me... or even _you_ Sir. As to Dr. Leir's implants? It _may_ be that he will speak to you on that subject himself... but I doubt it. Otherwise we'll have to consider that your ludicrous demands for an evidence that you would not likely accept in any case... even if it was a tech-larded Reptoid from Proxima butt-surfing on your favorite carpet... is only a fallacial dodge, whiney denialism, or a well couched insult. Is any of _that_ available? >Something that can be scientifically analyzed and >withstand the analysis. According to who? Your corrupted, conflicted, duplicitous, denialist and discredited mainstream? <ROFL> Now _I_ have an acceptance problem. Thanks. >Something that points irrefutably to >ETH. Look in the mirror, dude (Pardon me... Sir)! _You_ are empirical evidence of the 100% chance of intelligent (if you are) life in the universe. Now, go outside at night, imagine the space behind any star, and know that a million million galaxies are contained in that tiny space. Chances are 100% that somewhere in all that space and time and surface area is an evidence that even you would have to accept, Mr. Allan. But I kinda doubt that, too. >Maury Island & Ubatuba provide two well known examples, but >neither, unfortunately, passed the acceptance tests. Whose tests are those? Yours perhaps? >Nor have >any of the fragments allegedly emanating from Roswell. Ramey held a damn strange fragment in his fingers, as I recall. But you'll have to talk to Dr. Rudiak about that. >The evidence you refer to is classed as physical trace evidence >(holes in the ground, altered vegetation, radiation effects, >etc). Interesting yes, but this kind of evidence is very >transient and hardly qualifies as "available physical evidence". You're trying to have it both ways, Mr. Allan. You say there is physical evidence but that that physical evidence is not physical evidence. We've already talked about your warp drive. >Ted Phillips, for all his efforts, has not, I think, obtained >any real hardware. I am sure you, or he, will correct me if I am >wrong. <heavey sigh> <snip> >>Talk to Richard Hall, Jerry Clark, Stanton Friedman et sig al. >>You know who to talk to... I only have to convince _myself_, >>Sir. I wouldn't give a fig for anyone, like yourself, who >>_won't_ be convinced... of self-involved need. We're not the >>center of the universe Mr. Allan, get used to it. >Are you correct here? None of the above three has to my >knowledge performed any photographic vetting or analysis. >Certainly there are some ufologists who have (but their findings >are always disputed) but not Hall, Clark or Friedman. Again, if >I am wrong they can soon set me right. That deserves some muted applause. Mr. Allan. Wonderfully flexible erudition to do something so tediously transparent as try to put words into my mouth. Another dog not hunting, and this one pissed on your foot, too. Hall, Clark or Friedman were men alluded to... smarter that me (and apparently you, Sir) who had their own vetting requirements met. I merely point to them confidently for citation. I have hundreds of hours of UFO footage I've collected... there's maybe 15 minutes of that that raises the hair on the back of my neck, in a good way. I just have to satisfy myself, remember. Here's a tissue for you're foot. >The trouble is that for everyone who loudly claims "this photo >is the proof we have been waiting for", there is always someone >who responds "oh no it isn't, there are flaws here and there", >etc. Look at Trindade for example. Trindade... astonishing! Only if you are wrong, wrong minded, and intellectually dishonest, and then to add insult to injury, dogmatic about it on top of that! Tsk. >But this "vetting", as you put it, ought to be done by an >independent scientific body. (The Turin Shroud had three >independent analyses done on it) . And all such photos, of >whatever form, must pass strict scrutiny by this body and, >moreover, point directly to ETH, before they satisfy the >description "vetted photographic evidence". Simply to finish the >analysis with the conclusion "an unidentified object" is >inadequate where proof of ETH is concerned. <yawn> >Mainstream science has not been "hijacked" as you claim ( by >whom was it hijacked?). Why, _you_ Sir! You're that denial's fruit and guarantee. >It has its own standards, rightly strict >ones, before acceptance of a phenomenon like UFOs as proof of >ETH. Just as it would demand a very high quality of evidence >before accepting the receipt of SETI messages as proof of ETH. <Yawn... to cover the laughter> Isn't it ironic that it's _me_ who can't take _you_ seriously? <ROFL> >Two centuries ago meteorites were eventually accepted by >mainstream science. (Perhaps this was in pre-hijacking days) ...Almost a knee slapper, Mr. Allan. >It >was a long long wait, but ultimately the evidence became >overpowering and forced meteorites into acceptance. >Ball lightning had to fight its way too. >Perhaps one day the same will happen with UFOs. >Think of that! Mr. Allan, it's obvious that you would never find what you would accept as 'acceptable evidence' -- you'll keep raising the bar or chasing your retreating evidentiary horizon in sputteringly obtuse denial... always demanding higher acceptance levels like other moopy klasskurtxians in your avian camp. If instead you would pause to examine, seriously, www.ufoevidence.org for a huge catalog of multiple physical trace databases, CUFOS, NICAP, STURROCK and others, all available forensics... e.g.photos of plaster casts of landing gears, soil changes... a virtual _museum_ of data that the SETI "they can't get here" partisans should rub their anti-empirical beaks in. Ted Phillip's work alone, around _5000_ cases, is abundant to stun the "no evidence" partisans... _if_ they got off their lazily assumptive buns and started chasing the data, instead of "engaging in a sociopolitical inebriate frenzy," and driving that data, as they must. Think of that!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 26 Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:49:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:08:53 -0400 Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Lehmberg >From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:32:12 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:08:09 +0100 >>Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:35:03 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:40:50 +0100 >>>>Subject: ETH Case For UFOs [was: UFO Couple Use Story... ] >>>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:40:40 -0500 >>>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >Hijacked, indeed. >>Perhaps one day the same will happen with UFOs. >>Think of that! >>CDA >Short of a coup d'etat (seemingly Alfred's rhetorically >inevitable end-game) or a major revelatory event, methinks >perhaps not. Mr. Allan seems dodgy on current events, n'est ce pas? And isn't it ironic that it was 'him' and 'his' trying so arrogantly, if a little desperately, to prosecute the superiority of their world views or live in an unreal world of _their_ contrived illusion? Reality will come as quite a shock. "The tighter he squeezes the more of [it] slips through his fingers..." Moreover, as it is with many coups, the couped will bring it entirely upon themselves.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:34:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:03:46 -0400 Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico - Velez >From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:54:34 +0000 >Subject: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >Two new UFO fleets were videotaped over Mexico city on April 11, >2005 by skywatcher Arturo Robles Gil adding more suspense to the >very unusual UFO activity recorded recently over the world's >most populated city, a mystery that keeps the Mexican people in >a mixed state of excitement and uncertainty. >The sighting took place in broad day light and began with a >formation of seven objects, white luminous and sphere-shaped. >Robles Gil made a good zoom shot into one of the objects and >described it as an intense luminous light, like plasma energy. >At this moment one of the objects broke formation and began >performing maneuvers around the others as if it was >intelligently controlled. Mr. Robles Gil zoomed into this object >and flight path around the other objects was clear and defined. >Certainly intriguing images. >But that was not all and more spectacular action was about to >come. >About 15 minutes later and still taping the seven objects, Mr. >Robles Gil put his camera down for a second to rest his arm and >turning his head aside got a big surprise and discovered a huge >UFO fleet approachung, so he pointed the camera at the newcomers >and continued taping. >"There were more than a hundred luminous objects in the sky >perhaps two hundred", said Arturo Robles Gil. "It was simply >spectacular!!" >The video now shows a full screen filled with luminous objects >flying in perfect formation contrasting with the blue sky and >white clouds in a scene that's hard to belive. >This new evidence is now considered some of the most important >to date, along with the Guadalajara July 10, 2004 footage by >Miguel Avila and Miguel Dominguez. >The mysterious UFO flotilla phenomena in our country due to the >large amount of luminous objects in the sky, has been dubbed as >"The Silent Invasion". >This new footage, by Mr. Robles Gil, was aired on national >television last Sunday, April 24, during the Los Grandes >Misterios tv show hosted by Jaime Maussan. >At the same time a new video was also shown from Torreon, >Coahuila, presenting a UFO flotilla of at least 50 objects in the >sky in similar formation to the other fleets taped in Mexico >city. This video was filmed on March 30, 2005 and submitted by >witness Mr. Guillermo Ortiz. >The UFO Fleets phenomena has attracted the attention and >interest of TVnetworks in the US and a Japanese TV crew is >coming to make a documentary based on these sightings, interview >witnesses, researchers and the people on the streets. This >interest reflects the actual status of the Mexican UFO >sightings, a subject that has always fascinated the >international media. >Our investigation on these unusual incidents continues, studying >and analyzing every piece of information, testimonial and >graphic evidence. The number of cases that we have on this UFO >fleet phenomena is certainly large and the recent manifestations >videotaped suggest that it's increasing in number for reasons >yet to be defined. >Despite the dedicated studies made of these UFO fleet sightings >our efforts are still in a inconclusive status and the phenomena >remain as a complete enigma. >Santiago Hola Santiago, All, No, no, Santiago! You have it all wrong! Those videos mean nothing. Don't you understand? Allow me to explain: All of the Mexican people are so rock-stupid that they think ordinary balloons and birds are UFOs! Mexicans see a flock of birds and they run indoors to get their video cameras! Not only that..... The Mexican military is so stupid and incompetent that they cannot tell the difference between oil-well fires on the ground and flying saucers surrounding their aircraft! Why, according to 'some' of our more brilliant ufological commentators, just about everyone in your country is mentally handicapped/challenged. Only people who live north of your borders have the intelligence and clear sightedness to see those objects being recorded in Mexico for the birds and balloons that they really are. But don't worry, we Norte- Americanos understand that it must be the hot sun that makes so many Mexican people confuse birds and balloons with something unusual in the sky. Maybe the Mexican people have never seen birds in the sky or balloons escape during a birthday party. For some reason that most Americans cannot understand the sight of birds and balloons seems to set the Mexican people into a frenzy to record the event on video. Mi hermano, until the OVNIs are filling the skies over every major American city, (and maybe not even then!) the smug critics on this side of the fence will continue to criticize and dismiss any reports originating from the people of your backward, ignorant country. Entiendes como trabaja la cosa? (Understand how this thing works?) Warm regards to you and Jaime. You guys are fighting an all uphill battle with the international community. You have my respect. But most of all... you have my undying support. Until the day the truth is known by all.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:47:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:06:41 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 17:38:09 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:43:16 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:37:19 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >The view that "only idiots believe in UFOs" (or variations >thereon, such as "only nutters report UFOs" or "only idiots >bother investigating UFO reports) is one that I've heard friends >and colleagues express. It is also one that has been implicit >in quite a few recent press articles in the UK that I've read >and/or helpfully been referred to by members of the ufologyinuk >List (including Joe McGonagle, and also Robert Rosamond of BUFORA), including the articles at the following links: >http://tinyurl.com/8dtwe >http://tinyurl.com/8z2v5 >http://tinyurl.com/dtwd9 >I don't believe that I can be alone in hearing such dismissive >views being expressed, and (with thanks to Eric Adams for the >reference) note that Hynek's "The UFO Experience" (1972) >contains a brief discussion (in Chapter 1) of the view that >"UFOs are reported by unreliable, unstable, and uneducated >persons". Unfortunately, the relevant discussion by Hynek does >not include any direct quotations expressing that view, >attributing it merely to the "public at large" as an alleged >result of "bad press". >However, despite a bit of effort during my spare time during the >last couple of days, I have not found any explicit statements of >such views by any sceptics of any note. >Indeed, quite the contrary. For example, despite a suggestion >that Klass has made such comments (and of course he has >impliedly criticised a number of people that claim to have seen >UFOs), in fact Klass makes the following comment in his "UFOs >Explained" (in the Introduction): >"Some skeptics dismiss the UFO question without investigation in >the belief that reports come only from 'kooks'. This is not so, >as numerous UFO cases analyzed in this book will demonstrate. >Many come from seemingly honest, intelligent and often well- >educated citizens, including scientists, law-enforcement >officers and aircraft flight crews." >Similarly, the Condon Report (which, to put it mildly, is not >generally considered to be biased in favour of ETH proponents) >includes a section by Aldora Lee on opinion polls relating to >UFOs. That section suggests that in fact there is some evidence >that the _greater_ their education, the _more_ likely people are >to think that flying saucers are "real". Page 320 of the version >of the Condon Report available online at the link below includes >the following: "Although the relationships are not strong, the >results of the 1966 Gallup poll suggest that education is >related to opinions. The greater the education, the higher the >proportion who indicated they have heard of flying saucers, who >think they are real rather than the product of imagination and >who believe that there are people somewhat like ourselves living >on other planets." See: >http://ncas.sawco.com/condon/text/s3chap07.htm Condon's own opinion,as stated in his initial portion of the report, (the part that everyone read) was that UFO reports were made by "less well informed individuals" who are "not necessarily reliable."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 17 From: John Hayes <John.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:34:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:20:22 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 17 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan.nul> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 10, Number 17 April 27, 2005 Editor: Joseph Trainor E-mail: Masinaigan.nul Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ LUMINOUS UFO SIGHTED IN NENANA, ALASKA "As 37-year-old John Kempen traveled the Parks Highway to Nenana, Alaska at about 2 a.m. Saturday," April 23, 2005, "he watched the sky, hoping to point out the northern lights to his girlfriend." "But instead of spotting a blur of emerald green, Kempen saw a bright flash of bluish white with sparks for a tail and fiery 'chunks breaking off.'" "The comet-like object, maybe the size of a basketball, slid across the sky from the southwest to the northeast." "Kempen figured the object was a meteor." "According to Neal Brown, director of the space grant program at the University of Alaska's Fairbanks Geophysical Institute, Kempen probably saw a piece of space junk." "An estimated 5,000 to 10,000 pieces of useless debris orbit the Earth, Brown said, and more is continually added. Among the objects are rocket motors and bolts and flanges, which are adapters between rocket motors. Also orbiting the Earth are old satellites and out-of-commission spacecraft." "'From about 100 to 5,000 miles away from the Earth, it's a virtual junkyard,' Brown said, 'I think there's an astronaut's glove still out there.'" "Gravity pulls the junk back to Earth." "'It's coming in all the time,' Brown said." "The main reason Kempen's sighting sounds more like junk than a meteor is that it exhibited color, Brown said." "'Meteors don't have any blue or green or any colors,' he said, 'Most of the meteors are just rocks.'" "Secondly, the sighting was in the wrong part of the sky to be a Lyrid meteor, which would likely travel from northeast to southwest." (See the Fairbanks, Alaska News- Miner for April 24, 2005, "Official weighs in on reported flash in the sky." Many thanks to Mary Lou Jones-Drown for this newspaper article.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us next time for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home- UFO Roundup." See you next week...from the next stop along our Roundup Road Trip. Have a great week! UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2005 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/submit/sightings.shtml -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Secrecy News -- 04/26/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 12:39:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:22:24 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/26/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 40 April 26, 2005 ** PHILIP MORRISON, 1915-2005 ** DIA SEEKS FOIA EXEMPTION FOR OPERATIONAL FILES ** PUBLIC INTEREST DECLASS BOARD STALLS ** TENET STATEMENT ON CURVEBALL ** MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AND HOMELAND SECURITY ** DNI AUTHORIZED TO CLASSIFY PHILIP MORRISON, 1915-2005 Philip Morrison, the physicist, Manhattan Project veteran, arms control activist and science educator, died over the weekend. Like few others, Morrison's life embodied the travails of the nuclear age and pointed beyond it. He personally assembled the first atomic bomb and was among the first Americans to visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He went on to become a leading critic of nuclear weapons policy. Having been a member of the Communist Party from 1936 to 1942, he was also an object of suspicion and hostility that made his professional life at Cornell University precarious throughout the 1950s. In 1953, he was summoned to testify before the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee, where he took the "diminished Fifth," i.e., he spoke willingly about his own beliefs and opinions, not taking the Fifth Amendment, but he declined to discuss the views of others. Life Magazine published his picture in an article on America's fifty leading "Dupes and Fellow Travelers." (cf. Ellen Schrecker, No Ivory Tower, p. 151; Jessica Wang, American Science in an Age of Anxiety, p. 274). As one of the original atomic scientists, Morrison helped establish the Federation of American Scientists in 1945 and was its chairman from 1973 to 1976. Shortly before his death, he had agreed to prepare an FAS obituary for his friend and colleague Hans Bethe, but sadly did not complete it. Aside from his own considerable scientific achievements, Morrison was perhaps best known to the public as a science educator. His prolific writings for Scientific American and other outlets helped teach generations of readers to observe and to think. See "Philip Morrison, 89, Builder of First Atom Bomb, Dies" by Dennis Overbye, New York Times, April 26: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/26/science/26morrison.html Morrison described the bombing of Hiroshima and anticipated the effects of a future nuclear strike in a 1946 article entitled "If the Bomb Gets Out of Hand" from the FAS bestseller of the time "One World or None." It may be found here: http://www.fas.org/oneworld/morrison.pdf DIA SEEKS FOIA EXEMPTION FOR OPERATIONAL FILES The Defense Intelligence Agency is once again asking Congress to enact an exemption from the Freedom of Information Act for DIA "operational files," i.e. certain records that document foreign intelligence collection operations or liaison relationships. The proposed exemption is based on similar exemptions that have been granted in the last several years to other intelligence agencies, including CIA, NSA, NGA and NRO. See the DIA draft legislative language here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2005/dia-ops.html DIA did not mention that it had sought an operational files exemption five years ago, and that the proposal had been rejected by Congress. "The DIA exemption would radically reduce the amount of information released under the FOIA. Specifically, it would enshroud in secrecy files that have been invaluable for human rights investigators looking into foreign militaries," wrote Tom Blanton of the National Security Archive in a July 19, 2000 Washington Post op-ed on the earlier DIA proposal. PUBLIC INTEREST DECLASS BOARD STALLS The Public Interest Declassification Board, an advisory panel that was given a new lease on life in last year's intelligence reform legislation, now appears to be hovering on the edge of extinction. Although the White House named five members to the Board last September and Congress named two more, the Board still remains unfunded and therefore unable to convene (Secrecy News, 02/11/05). The Office of Management and Budget had recently identified funds for reprogramming to support the Board, and the National Security Council had approved the transfer, one official told Secrecy News. But then the ball was dropped, figuratively speaking, and the reprogramming never took place. Efforts by some to include funding in the recent Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Act were blocked in Congress. No more than a few tens of thousands of dollars are needed for the Board for the remainder of the current fiscal year, according to the official. But "It is easier to get $100 million than to get $100 thousand," the official said yesterday. Despite its somewhat grandiose name, the Public Interest Declassification Board would not have authority to declassify, nor would it answer to the public. Its primary purposes are to advise the White House on declassification priorities and to mediate classification disputes with Congressional Committees. http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2005/pida.html TENET STATEMENT ON CURVEBALL In an April 1 statement, former Director of Central Intelligence George J. Tenet expressed amazement and dismay at the finding of the Silberman-Robb WMD Commission that the alleged Iraqi defector known as "Curveball," on whom U.S. intelligence relied for information about Iraqi biological weapons programs, had been identified as unreliable as early as fall of 2002. "It is deeply troubling to me that there was information apparently available within CIA as of late September or October of 2002 indicating that Curveball may have been a fabricator," Mr. Tenet wrote. Mr. Tenet's statement was widely quoted following the release of the WMD Commission report, but the full 7 page text does not seem to have been widely available. A copy is now here: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/wmd_tenet.pdf MILITARY INTELLIGENCE AND HOMELAND SECURITY "The Role of Military Intelligence in Homeland Security" is considered by Stephen Dycus in the new issue of Louisiana Law Review, vol. 64, no. 4 (not available online). Somewhat relatedly, see "Homeland Security: Establishment and Implementation of the United States Northern Command," Congressional Research Service, updated February 10, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RS21322.pdf DNI AUTHORIZED TO CLASSIFY President Bush formally endowed the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) with authority to classify information up to the Top Secret level in an administrative order published in the Federal Register today. The President also granted the same authority to the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (DCIA). Curiously, the DCIA had not previously been designated by the President as an original classifier. That authority was held by the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI), which is a distinct office from that of the DCIA, even though the two have always been filled by the same person. Now that most of the DCI's functions have been transferred to the new DNI, it became necessary to make the DCIA an authorized classifier. The President's order is here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/wh042105.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 UK UFO Conference June 11 2005 From: Kathy Mingo <cs.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:48:25 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:30:41 -0400 Subject: UK UFO Conference June 11 2005 The Scientific Evidence For UFOs: 11 June Discover the truth behind the most classified subject on Earth Speakers include: - Dr Richard F Haines; former senior NASA research scientist - Nick Pope; former British government Ministry of Defence UFO Project Leader - Timothy Good; renowned author & lecturer on UFO military data & scientific intelligence - Dr Vladimir Rubtsov; Director of Research on Anomalous Phenomena (Ukraine) - Dr Viktor Zuravlev; Tungska researcher (Russian Roswell) & Atmospheric Phenomena Venue: Friends Meeting House 173 Euston Road London NW1 2BJ UK Price: Pounds Sterling 129.25 per person (incl VAT & refreshments)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Allan From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:57:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:33:06 -0400 Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Allan >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:19:58 -0500 >Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:08:09 +0100 >>Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>Perhaps I should have made myself clear that by "available >>physical evidence" I was referring to actual hardware, i.e. >>pieces from a crashed UFO, even a whole UFO, or possibly one of >>Dr Leir's implants. (Are any of the latter available by the >>way?) >Uh huh... we'll forget for a moment that I may have heard it >said that you, yourself, are incapable of accepting even the >'evidence' you challenge from me. But presuming, for a moment, >your sincerity and intellectual honesty... and that you _are_ an >innocent truthseeker wrapped, unfortunately, in your little >Chinese takeout paradigm box of fearful homocentricity, one >could hardly expect the errant warp drive, light saber, or other >'conclusive' technology to make itself readily available for the >likes of me... or even _you_ Sir. As to Dr. Leir's implants? It >_may_ be that he will speak to you on that subject himself... >but I doubt it. > >Otherwise we'll have to consider that your ludicrous demands for >an evidence that you would not likely accept in any case... even >if it was a tech-larded Reptoid from Proxima butt-surfing on >your favorite carpet... is only a fallacial dodge, whiney >denialism, or a well couched insult. Is any of _that_ available? >>Something that can be scientifically analyzed and >>withstand the analysis. >According to who? Your corrupted, conflicted, duplicitous, >denialist and discredited mainstream? <ROFL>Now _I_ have an >acceptance problem. Thanks. >>Something that points irrefutably to >>ETH. >Look in the mirror, dude (Pardon me... Sir)! _You_ are empirical >evidence of the 100% chance of intelligent (if you are) life in >the universe. Now, go outside at night, imagine the space behind >any star, and know that a million million galaxies are contained >in that tiny space. Chances are 100% that somewhere in all that >space and time and surface area is an evidence that even you >would have to accept, Mr. Allan. But I kinda doubt that, too. >>Maury Island & Ubatuba provide two well known examples, but >>neither, unfortunately, passed the acceptance tests. >Whose tests are those? Yours perhaps? >>Nor have >>any of the fragments allegedly emanating from Roswell. >Ramey held a damn strange fragment in his fingers, as I recall. >But you'll have to talk to Dr. Rudiak about that. >>The evidence you refer to is classed as physical trace evidence >>(holes in the ground, altered vegetation, radiation effects, >>etc). Interesting yes, but this kind of evidence is very >>transient and hardly qualifies as "available physical evidence". >You're trying to have it both ways, Mr. Allan. You say there is >physical evidence but that that physical evidence is not >physical evidence. We've already talked about your warp drive. >>Ted Phillips, for all his efforts, has not, I think, obtained >>any real hardware. I am sure you, or he, will correct me if I am >>wrong. ><heavey sigh> ><snip> >>Are you correct here? None of the above three has to my >>knowledge performed any photographic vetting or analysis. >>Certainly there are some ufologists who have (but their findings >>are always disputed) but not Hall, Clark or Friedman. Again, if >>I am wrong they can soon set me right. >That deserves some muted applause. Mr. Allan. Wonderfully >flexible erudition to do something so tediously transparent as >try to put words into my mouth. Another dog not hunting, and >this one pissed on your foot, too. Hall, Clark or Friedman were >men alluded to... smarter that me (and apparently you, Sir) who >had their own vetting requirements met. I merely point to them >confidently for citation. I have hundreds of hours of UFO >footage I've collected... there's maybe 15 minutes of that that >raises the hair on the back of my neck, in a good way. I just >have to satisfy myself, remember. Here's a tissue for you're >foot. >>The trouble is that for everyone who loudly claims "this photo >>is the proof we have been waiting for", there is always someone >>who responds "oh no it isn't, there are flaws here and there", >>etc. Look at Trindade for example. >Trindade... astonishing! Only if you are wrong, wrong minded, >and intellectually dishonest, and then to add insult to injury, >dogmatic about it on top of that! Tsk. >>But this "vetting", as you put it, ought to be done by an >>independent scientific body. (The Turin Shroud had three >>independent analyses done on it) . And all such photos, of >>whatever form, must pass strict scrutiny by this body and, >>moreover, point directly to ETH, before they satisfy the >>description "vetted photographic evidence". Simply to finish the >>analysis with the conclusion "an unidentified object" is >>inadequate where proof of ETH is concerned. ><yawn> >>Mainstream science has not been "hijacked" as you claim ( by >>whom was it hijacked?). >Why, _you_ Sir! You're that denial's fruit and guarantee. >>It has its own standards, rightly strict >>ones, before acceptance of a phenomenon like UFOs as proof of >>ETH. Just as it would demand a very high quality of evidence >>before accepting the receipt of SETI messages as proof of ETH. ><Yawn... to cover the laughter>Isn't it ironic that it's _me_ >who can't take _you_ seriously? <ROFL> >>Two centuries ago meteorites were eventually accepted by >>mainstream science. (Perhaps this was in pre-hijacking days) >...Almost a knee slapper, Mr. Allan. >>It >>was a long long wait, but ultimately the evidence became >>overpowering and forced meteorites into acceptance. >>Ball lightning had to fight its way too. >>Perhaps one day the same will happen with UFOs. >>Think of that! >Mr. Allan, it's obvious that you would never find what you would >accept as 'acceptable evidence' -- you'll keep raising the bar >or chasing your retreating evidentiary horizon in sputteringly >obtuse denial... always demanding higher acceptance levels like >other moopy klasskurtxians in your avian camp. If instead you >would pause to examine, seriously, www.ufoevidence.org for a >huge catalog of multiple physical trace databases, CUFOS, NICAP, >STURROCK and others, all available forensics... e.g.photos of >plaster casts of landing gears, soil changes... a virtual >_museum_ of data that the SETI "they can't get here" partisans >should rub their anti-empirical beaks in. Ted Phillip's work >alone, around _5000_ cases, is abundant to stun the "no >evidence" partisans... _if_ they got off their lazily assumptive >buns and started chasing the data, instead of "engaging in a >sociopolitical inebriate frenzy," and driving that data, as they >must. >Think of that! Looks like it is heads you win, tails I lose. I am bowing out of this debate. Your thinking is on a level far too high for me to contemplate. My mind is truly numbed, confused and flummoxed by it all. A former editor of FSR once advised me to quit ufology and get some mental relaxation by taking up carpentry or gardening.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Mexican 'Saucer Fleets' Just Balloons? From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:37:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:37:16 -0400 Subject: Mexican 'Saucer Fleets' Just Balloons? INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology April 26, 2005 Mexican Saucer Fleets Just Balloons? IHU Correspondent Prof. Ana Luisa Cid has sent the following article suggesting the possibility that the "Mexican Saucer Fleets" that have been reported in recent weeks are in fact nothing more than balloons launched to show support for one of her country's political parties. Source: Planeta UFO Date: 04.25.05 Lopez Obrador even covers the Stock Market in his speech. CROWD HANDLED WITH SILKEN HANDS <snip> With music blaring from cutting-edge technology speakers placed on various streets in downtown Mexico City, and with thousands upon thousands of helium balloons that momentarily sweetened the air at 9:41 in the morning and turned the skies yellow, with swarms of cellphone photographers at the ready to record any possible provocateurs, and with a subtle scheme of barricades to cordon off the Zocalo (main square) into small and invisible labyrinths, the government of the Federal District (GDF) handled with silken hands a crowd of over 300,000 perople who were ready, in principle, to give up their lives for that of Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador. The remainder of the article appears at: www.jornada.unam.mx/2005/abr05/050408/010n1pol.php Prof. Cid has attached a message from attorney Osiris Mendoza which reads thus: "You may go to any search engine to see that I am not lying. I beg that you please send this information to all interested parties and to your colleagues in other countries. Put an end to the frauds; we are sick of frauds.The public will not readily forget the deceptions of Robles Gil and his henchmen. And I do not doubt that he would even stoop to changing the date on his camera. Don't they realize that this makes Mexicans look like ignorant fools? Very best regards and many thanks for your time. Lic. Osiris Mendoza.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Moving Moon Rocks From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:57:38 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:41:19 -0400 Subject: Moving Moon Rocks In relation to the discussion about rocks on the moon appearing to move or to be artifically moved, check out this site:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:33:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:47:10 -0400 Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico - Maccabee >From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:54:34 +0000 >Subject: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >Two new UFO fleets were videotaped over Mexico city on April 11, >2005 by skywatcher Arturo Robles Gil adding more suspense to the >very unusual UFO activity recorded recently over the world's >most populated city, a mystery that keeps the Mexican people in >a mixed state of excitement and uncertainty. <snip> The appearance of "UFO fleets" over Mexico has been so common recently one would think that someone or organization would obtain cameras better than "home video". I mean telephoto lenses of large diameter and tripods to steady the cameras. Incidently, when I saw some of these videos at he X Conference on April 23, I was reminded of a much earlier "UFO fleet" sighting which made history in its day... the Delbert Newhouse film over Tremonton, Utah. No one used the term "UFO Fleet", but it certainly belongs to that class of sightings (many bright dots moving in semi-random patterns while traveling generally in a single direction). Blue Book/AF "explained" them as a flock of white birds (see also the Condon Report). BlueBook/AF ignored Newhouse's testimony which described the object seen "close up" before he got his movie camera going. By the time the movie started the objects were far away.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: The Engineered Moon - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:49:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:48:25 -0400 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon - Shough >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:32:21 -0400 >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:06:19 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon ><snip> >>The moon's mass is whatever it is, hollow or not. I assume you >>are not doubting that the moon's mass is the mass needed to >>account for its contribution to the tidal effect of gravity on >>the earth's oceans? The point is that it doesn't matter how this >>mass is distributed, as Nick pointed out. It can be treated as a >>mathematical point. A proof that this is true was one of the >>major king-pins of Newton's theory. So unless you are querying >>the foundations of the theory, the actual variation in the >>tides, or the mass of water, you are actually querying not the >>mass of moon but the density of the moon, which has no >>terrestrial gravitational effect. It could have the density of a >>Swiss cheese or of a neutron star and the tides would still be >>the same as long as its total mass remains one lunar mass. >I understand what's been said about distribution of mass and >density variations having no practical effect on tides. >What I suspect is, a hollow moon, if the shell isn't hugely >thick, probably could not cause the tides we observe. I wonder >if anyone has calculated the _mass_ needed to cause the tides we >observe. The mass of the moon _is_ its gravitational mass, i.e. the mass that we say "causes" gravitational effects like the tides and the orbital dynamics of the earth-moon system. Gravitational dynamics is how we _weigh_ the moon. Gravitational mass being cognate with inertial mass according to theory and experiment, there is presently no other meaning in physics to "the mass of the moon" than the mass needed to cause the gravitational effects we observe, including tidal distortion. As I suggested, your question really relates to whether it is possible to calculate the true average density of the lunar material and determine whether it could have any voids. >I doubt the moon is hollow. But, given the anti gravity >technology the ETs clearly have, it wouldn't be a big surprise >to me if they hauled the moon in from somewhere else for use as >a base. >A couple of years ago, and I have not verified this, I heard >that the Naval Observatory noted a sudden change in the Earth's >rotation speed, and a second sudden change a few days (?) later >to bring the rotation speed back to normal. If that is true, it >certainly indicates someone has the ability to manipulate >planet-sized bodies. I believe massive geological events like the plate slip that caused the recent Indonesian tsunami can alter the rotation
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:45:45 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:22:58 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:34:53 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >"In another celebrated instance, said to have happened in >October 1957, a young Brazilian man, Antonio Villas-Boas...." >I go on to point out that there is little resemblance between >these incidents and the abduction phenomenon that would emerge >in later decades -- though of course the V-B case anticipates >sexual elements (and, one might argue, hybrids, the subject >incidentally of an extraordinarily interesting DNA- based >investigation being conducted these days by ufologist/chemist >Bill Chalker and a team of scientists in Australia; see the >current issue of International UFO Reporter, available from >CUFOS). >To appreciate how little prepared ufologists were for the >modern abduction phenomenon, one has only to read Walt Webb's >report to NICAP of his initial investigation of the Hill CE3 >(not suspected to be an abduction then). He overlooks >significant parts of the testimony and rationalizes away >portions that would later be seen as seminal. The Hill episode >was something so new and novel that ufologists failed to >recognize it for what it signified till years later. >It is important to turn to primary sources whenever possible. >There, while doing historical research for my encyclopedia in >the 1990s, I found the occasional intriguing but overlooked and >not-understood reference to things that sound much like missing >time that is central to the Hill case and, of course, to many >others that would occur in its wake. The Hills presented even >the most sophisticated ufologists -- and Webb certainly can be >so described -- with aspects of the UFO phenomenon for which >they had no preparation. That's one reason, maybe _the_ reason, >it remains so important in the history of ufology. >In the encyclopedia I wrote, in words that to me still make >more sense most others that I've read, especially by debunkers >who, as is their wont, find deeply threatening any hint of >ambiguity and unanswered question, "The resolution of the Hill >case awaits the resolution of the UFO question itself. If UFOs >do not exist, then Barney and Betty did not meet with aliens. If >UFOs do exist, they probably did. The evidence available to us >from this incident alone provides no answers surer than these. >In other words, no answers at all. For now, anyway." Jerry and all, Yes, it is very interesting to note that Walter Webb, like McDonald, who were among the best researchers at the time, were unprepared to cope with the Hill case. It was so new. So, it is highly improbable that the Hills would have invented such a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:14:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:58:05 -0400 Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs - Lehmberg >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:57:30 +0100 >Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:19:58 -0500 >>Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs >>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:08:09 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: ETH Case For UFOs <snip> >>Mr. Allan, it's obvious that you would never find what you would >>accept as 'acceptable evidence' -- you'll keep raising the bar >>or chasing your retreating evidentiary horizon in sputteringly >>obtuse denial... always demanding higher acceptance levels like >>other moopy klasskurtxians in your avian camp. If instead you >>would pause to examine, seriously, www.ufoevidence.org for a >>huge catalog of multiple physical trace databases, CUFOS, NICAP, >>STURROCK and others, all available forensics... e.g.photos of >>plaster casts of landing gears, soil changes... a virtual >>_museum_ of data that the SETI "they can't get here" partisans >>should rub their anti-empirical beaks in. Ted Phillip's work >>alone, around _5000_ cases, is abundant to stun the "no >>evidence" partisans... _if_ they got off their lazily assumptive >>buns and started chasing the data, instead of "engaging in a >>sociopolitical inebriate frenzy," and driving that data, as they >>must. >>Think of that! >Looks like it is heads you win, tails I lose. >I am bowing out of this debate. Your thinking is on a level far >too high for me to contemplate. My mind is truly numbed, >confused and flummoxed by it all. I think that's, largely, a self-inflicted flummox, Sir. It's not one I've, in any way, provoked. >A former editor of FSR once advised me to quit ufology and get >some mental relaxation by taking up carpentry or gardening. Might I suggest worm farming? >Whilst risking possible backache from the latter, I now propose >to do just that. Good enough, Mr. Allan -- we'll see you when you come back from the moors.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 27 Filer's Files #18 - 2005=96_2005?= From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:26:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:12:16 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #18 - 2005 Filer's Files #18 =96 2005 Skywatch Investigations George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International April 27, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com Webmaster: C E Warren www.cewarren. Flying Triangles The purpose of these files is to report weekly the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. Many people claim it is impossible for UFOs to visit Earth, I ask you only to keep an open mind and watch the evidence we accumulate each week. These Files make the assumption that extraterrestrial intelligent life not only exists, but my hypothesis is that of the over one hundred UFOs reported each week many represent a factual UFO sighting Articles this week include: Mars =96 Green vegetation found, Human Cells communicate, World speed record set forty years ago. UFOs were seen over Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas, Utah, and Vermont. Sightings were also reported in Australia, Argentina, Canada, India, Saudi Arabia, and the United Kingdom. Mars - Clearly Has Visible Life Norman Bryden writes, "There are many images of what looks like vegetation on Mars. Many of the images photographed by the Mars Global Surveyor shows what seems to be large areas blanketed with vegetation.=94 The icy regions show patches and spots that look like large microorganism colonies. Images from Mars like the one that this section comes from shows what looks like forests. The full image from the link below has areas of many objects of what can best be described as large trees. The trees seem to have full foliage and can easily be seen as growth above the surface of Mars. Evidence such as this shows Mars is alive, and this data needs to be accepted by mainstream science. This is a good image because the foliage can be seen fairly well. When the full image is enlarged and resampled the details can be seen better. Down among the trees are also curious objects that look too ordered and structured to be random formations. They look like alien structures or possibly alien life forms themselves. There are clearings that look like an alien life form is occupying the area. information that clearly shows that Mars is a thriving planet with liquid water, extraterrestrial structures and life. Norman Bryden Link to NASA Image: http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/full_gif_non_map/R09/R0904287.gif MARS MGS: FOREST OF TREES WITH FULL FOLIAGE & OBJECTS *PIC*[ ] http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.net/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=3D70343 Cells Communicate Researchers at UCSD and UC Irvine have captured on video for the first time chemical signals that traverse human cells in response to tiny mechanical jabs, like waves spreading from pebbles tossed into a pond. The scientists released the videos and technical details that explain how the visualization effect was created as part of a paper published in the April 21 issue of Nature. Cells tugged in one direction sent biochemical signals in the opposite direction in the form of a signature pattern of fluorescent light Image: Not only did researchers at UCSD and UCI visualize a mechanically induced signal traverse human cells, but they also showed that actin filaments and microtubules are involved in the process. The researchers working at the UCSD Jacobs School of Engineering's Department of Bioengineering developed a novel molecular "reporter" system, which allowed the dynamic visualization of the activation of an important protein called Src. Peter Yingxiao Wang, lead author of the paper and a post- doctoral researcher in UCSD's Jacobs School of Engineering spent two years designing the reporter molecules to light up selectively only when Src was activated, and not other proteins. The researchers attached small, sticky beads to cells and gently tugged the beads to and fro with laser power acting as invisible "tweezers." As the laser tweezers moved the beads in one direction, a video camera attached to a specially equipped microscope recorded the dynamic movement of biochemical signals in the opposite direction in the form of a signature pattern of fluorescent light. The fine spatial and temporal resolution was made possible -- by a technology called fluorescence resonance energy transfer. "We had no idea what to expect," said Wang. "The first time we saw these incredible waves spreading across the cells I just said 'Whoa, this is amazing.' We expected to see a signal where the tweezers were pulling the beads, but we did not envision such a directional wave propagating away from the beads." Thanks to University of California - San Diego Editor's Note: We are all made of millions of cells and even the simplest cell is exceedingly complex. The tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, but each is a veritable micro- miniaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery, made up altogether of one hundred thousand million atoms, far more complicated than any machine built by man and absolutely without parallel in the non-living world. Molecular biology shows us that the basic design in all living systems on earth is the same from bacteria to animals. In all organisms the roles of DNA,MRNA and protein are identical. The meaning of the genetic code is also virtually identical in all cells. In terms of their basic biochemical design, therefore no living system can be thought of as being primitive or ancestral with respect to any other system, nor is there the slightest empirical hint of an evolutionary sequence among all the incredibly diverse cells on earth. Thus, the simplest cells available to us for study have nothing "primitive=94 about them, no vestiges of truly primitive structures are discernible. My conclusion is that living organisms on Earth had a creator, a designer or engineer. One cell of your body is much more complicated than the shuttle or the largest aircraft. Additionally, we now know a cell has the ability to communicate and reproduce itself. World Speed Record of 2000 MPH Set On May 1, 1965 =96 The YF-12A interceptor, an early version of the SR-71, set world records at 2,070.101 mph at 80,257.65 feet. It is reasonable to assume we now have aircraft that can triple that speed. Bill Hamilton reports: According to my old contact with Aviation Week and Space Technology writer Bill Scott was the source of my statement that the Navy's A-12 Avenger Advanced Technology Aircraft (ATA) that was slated to replace current A-6s on aircraft carriers in the mid-1990's was canceled. However, another triangle development which was not jet-propelled was developed. These triangles move with the silent power of gravitational energy. Secretary of Defense Richard Cheney canceled the program, which was the largest contract termination in DoD history because it had become so expensive. This became a Black Project (Eyepod). While today's radar can detect existing naval aircraft at a range of 50 miles, the A-12 was designed to remain undetected until approximately 10 miles away. This would result in significant operational and survival benefits for the A-12 since defenders would have little opportunity to engage the aircraft once detected so close to the target. The A-12's reduced radar cross section would have been derived, in part, from carrying its ordnance internally. While the top speed of the more visible F/A-18 and A-6 would be significantly reduced by the drag induced by external weapons carriage, the internal weapons bay on the A-12 would provide no impediment to speed. The follow-on A-12 has advanced greatly over the years, but it's basic shape has been retained. Some reports say the functional space platform exceeds 600 feet. The 500 marking on the artist's rendition of the A-12 is no accident, 5 broken down in it's classic form is 2 and 3, which of course is 23... Eyepod.Org http://www.eyepod.org/TAC-A-12-Flying-Triangle.html Bill Hamilton AstroScience Research http://www.astrosciences.info, Frank Riccardi. Director.nul FT. HOOD, TEXAS -- A physicist and an FAA Licensed Pilot saw a triangle shaped craft flying at 800 feet with an airspeed of 30 mph floating over Sydney, Texas, on March 9, 2005. The observer saw lettering on the side of a triangular craft that was about sixty feet wide and eighty feet long and ten feet thick at the rear. Under its belly, there was a straight line going from its leading tip toward the center of the aft edge of the fuselage, which was perpendicular to its travel. This straight edge clearly showed its shape to be three-dimensional. The straight line showed that its belly was V-shaped, much like the hull of a speedboat. It was similar to the space shuttle as when viewed from in front and below the shuttle and had well-fitted tiles also like the Shuttle. There was a distinct marking, a red arrow pointing towards three words, EMERGENCY RELEASE and RESCUE. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.nuforc.com California =96 I Took These Two Pictures SAN DIEGO -- On April 20, 2005, at 8:15 PM, I saw a boomerang- shaped craft in the sky over North Park about 7 miles from the San Diego airport. The craft was moving north or northeast and it was very large and flying fairly low. It made no turns, and flew a straight and steady course, and I could follow it for about ten seconds until it disappeared from my view. It had no lights, and was completely silent. It may have been smoky gray in color and it was larger than a jumbo jet, possibly double, and may have been a few thousand feet up. Again, this is a ballpark guess, as I'm not educated in these kinds of things, but it wasn't anywhere near a plane's cruising altitude, and it was very, very large. The fact that it was so silent at such a low altitude was the strangest thing of all. Thanks to Mel Podell, MUFON-San Diego and Nancy MODESTO -- R. David Anderson writes, "On Thursday, April 21 at around 6 PM, there were two jets that flew in opposite directions and unidentified dark flying objects. The bright objects are the jets flying in opposite directions, one towards the SE and the other toward the NW, almost like they were on an intercept course. The darker shape was difficult to discern with the unaided eye, but I used the telephoto lens to get a close up shot. The dark objects were moving much faster than the jets and simply "blinked out" as the jets approached. I was fortunate to get off these two shots. The disk shaped UFO is in both photos, but looks a little more distant and blurry, yet it is there. I think that I did not have the zoom on in the second photo. The one that looks like a streak in the sky may actually be the same UFO in the process of "winking out" These things have a tendency to disappear in mysterious ways. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi- bin/article.cgi?file=3D/n/a/2005/04/26/entertainment/e111652D48.DT L =3Dprintable Thanks to R. David Anderson Florida - UFO Masquerades as Stars PALM SPRINGS -- During a pool party at our house on April 3, 2005, at 11:30 AM, one guest remarked about the stars in the bright blue sky. Everyone looked and said it was the Little Dipper constellation. I said that you don't see stars in the daytime, much less one constellation. The eleven "stars" were very bright and 80 degrees north of us. I ran in to get my binoculars, and in the 30 seconds it took me to get back outside, some had disappeared and others were moving. I followed two heading southeast and saw a fuzzy capsule shaped object- still very bright. In the binoculars, it looked like it was "bouncing" and I told our guest so and she said it looked to her like it was going in a straight line. Another thing I noticed was that the sky around it was a deeper blue. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Georgia - Shiny Objects Flying in a Group SAVANNAH --On April 2, 2005, at 9:30 PM, the witness spotted a circular object at very high altitude, that appeared as a bright star moving from NE to SW. The object slowed almost to a stop, and then a very bright extremely white slow explosion of expanding light was observed for three seconds before fading into darkness. The light explosion was four to five times the diameter of the object. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com VALDOSTA -- It was a clear, sunny day on April 3, 2005, at 3:25 PM, may be twelve miles away from Valdosta, my mother and I were driving when I looked up and saw a group of about 30 shapes flying in the sky. They were shiny and white. However, they were disappearing and reappearing in different spots in front of us in the sky. They seemed to be flying almost in a pattern. Then, as suddenly as they had appeared they disappeared. They were traveling as fast as my car, around 70 mph or faster. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Michigan - Triangle with Blue Lights ISHPEMING =96 The witness says, "I first saw what I thought was a plane coming up from the tree line-- on April 3, 2005, at 10:29 PM almost exactly to the southwest. I started looking and following it when it came back up to the same spot about 10 degrees over the tree line. It then moved south and I got my binoculars (16 x 32 power) and observed it flying with blue lights, but my hands were not steady enough to tell where the lights were located on the object. It looked like a stealth bomber the best I could tell at this point. I grabbed my telescope (130 mm reflector, with a 25 mm eyepiece) that I had planned on using tonight and saw an isosceles triangle with blue lights on what would be the sides of the wings if it was a plane. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Minnesota =96 Flying Triangle MINNEAPOLIS =96 The observer reports seeing a dark gray or black triangular object with faint yellow/white lights on its underside on April 3, 2005, at 3:50 PM. It moved back and forth in an erratic pattern in the sky for about a minute. The object with yellow lights flew around erratically for about a minute in the sky. It moved too irregularly and silently to be a plane. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Missouri - Two Faint Lights in the Daytime LEE'S SUMMIT -- On Saturday, on April 1, 2005 at 3:30 PM, afternoon my wife and family and I were in our front yard playing ball with our kids. My wife noticed what looked like a faint star or ultra-high altitude craft to the northeast at about 70 degrees up from the horizon. She asked me what I thought it was because I am a former US Marine air traffic controller and aircraft buff. It looked like a satellite as it would be seen moving slowly across the night sky, except it was broad daylight. I went inside the house and got a low power telescope to get a closer look, but never could locate the object due to the sunlight. The object moved north, turned east, then west in what looked to us like a 3/4 box turn. There, it met with a second identical object briefly and they were lost behind a high altitude "wispy" cloud. They were so faint that they were hard to see, and eventually disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com New Jersey- Extremely Bright Lights GREEN BROOK =96 The witness reports, "On March 31, 2005, At 2:48 a.m. my sister woke me up to tell me she thought there was a UFO outside.=94 I went to the window to see bright flashing red, white and green lights about a 100 yards away. The lights were so bright, they lit up the entire sky. There was a low repetitive humming motor of some sort. We could not actually see any sort of air craft, only the extremely bright lights. Suddenly, the lights stopped and there was no more sound. We are planning on going to the police today to see if any one else witnessed it. My sister is 24 and a dental assistant, I am 27 and a college student, my mother who also saw the lights is 52. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com UNION =96 MUFON sighting report. On Friday, April 8, 2005, the witness was in the Schering-Plough Pharmaceutical Parking Lot about 1:40 PM, and noticed a dark dot flying in the sky. Although, there were other aircraft airborne this looked different since there were no wings. The witness is a 51 year old female who observed the object gently arcing flight, and noted that it suddenly stopped and was standing perfectly still in the sky. It remained stationary for almost a minute and started to move again and started to gain altitude. She states, "It appeared that small pieces are shooting from the top of the object that now appears slightly elongated, but not much larger than a dot.=94 When the pieces come arcing out of it, I saw them disappear and the sky looks fuzzy around the dot. The dot then moved down and to the right. It moved across the sky in a gentle arcing motion, unlike a plane. It moved up suddenly and was gone. Thanks to webmaster.nul www.mufon.com Nebraska - White Disc Sighted OMAHA =96 The witness was driving north on 50th Street coming up to the F Street intersection on March 31, 2005 at 1 PM, when he saw a white disc shaped object rising up from the tree line. The object moved straight east for a short distance before he lost sight of it behind a large double billboard. Slowing the car down, I caught sight of it again just past 50th Street as it dipped to head steeply down towards a tunnel. The object made a very quick turn and headed north just before I lost sight of it again as I went through the tunnel. The object was a smooth brilliant white and had no wings. Its movements were quick yet graceful. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com New Hampshire - Ball Flies Up NASHUA -- On April 1, 2005 at 3 PM, a fire colored bright, orange ball was seen shooting up from the ground at the base test site just inside or outside the fence. The ball was about the size of a basket ball. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com North Carolina - Black Chevron JACKSONVILLE =96 The witness went outside to smoke on April 4, 2005, at 11:30 PM, and saw a black chevron shaped aircraft. He claims to be able to identify aircraft based on their engine sounds but this craft made no sound. It was just sheer luck that I saw it when I did. It was just this huge black chevron without lights, or sound. It was huge and I couldn't even begin to describe how big it was or how high. It was flying at about the height military planes fly when there is cloud cover and they have to fly low. Except with military planes my windows usually rattle when they fly low. But this was huge, bigger than anything I have ever seen flying. Now I will be out there every night looking for this thing again. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com North Carolina digital photo taken by Alan Caviness of possible chevron like UFO. These photos come with a donation to Filer's Files. Ohio - Two Sphere UFOs Sighted CINCINATTI -- My friend and I were sitting on a Delta airlines flight to Chicago O'Hare on April 1, 2005 at 4:30 PM. The flight was delayed due to traffic in O'Hare, so we looked out the window and noticed a sphere of light. It started spinning and emitted a green light to the ground. It was soon accompanied by another UFO. It appeared to have either disappeared or landed. I am unsure what happened afterward because we were in the air. They were able to capture a few pictures on their digital camera through the window of an airliner. The photos were sent to Peter Davenport but he was unable to determine the nature of the objects. The window was covered with droplets of rain, making resolution of objects outside the airliner very poor. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com FOSTORIA - George Ritter videotaped this large object on April 18, 2005, that may have been moving toward the camera. The RCA VHS video camera was shooting towards the east in the afternoon sky. Oregon - Floating Non-aerodynamic Object LAKE OSWEGO =96 The observer reports, "I initially saw the object from the driver's side of my car on April 2, 2005, at 4:20 PM, as I approached my house.=94 After parking my car, I went immediately to our outside deck. The object was dark in apparent color and in my initial view it seemed to be squarish in shape. It had caught my attention because it definitely was not a powered airplane or helicopter and made no noise. I've lived in our house for 17 yrs. and am used to seeing and hearing aircraft flying over from the south towards PDX. The object appeared to be at least 2,500 ft. in altitude. The object did not have an aerodynamic shape. It was slowly moving from south to north and it seemed to be almost tumbling or rotating through the air and in so doing presenting different shape and outline profiles. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Pennsylvania =96 Disk YORK =96 On April 14, 2005, a disk was seen falling from the sky at 5 PM. It was spinning as it fell. There were no smoke or contrails observed. It was a silver disk shinning in the sun. After thirty seconds it disappeared in the clouds. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Vermont =96 Glowing Red Object WINDSON CO -- One round, glowing, red object that looked at first like a bright star or airplane was seen on March 31, 2005, at 8 PM. There were no bright red lights as are usually seen on an airplane. We then saw that there were smaller lights encircling the object while it flew suspended in air. We were watching the object because we couldn't decide if it was a plane or star, and while watching it, my 16 year old daughter exclaimed that it was a shooting star. While we watched, the object fell very quickly in a right-sided arch and stopped suddenly at a 3:00 point. It did fall as fast as a shooting star before stopping. The object then remained in that position without any further movement. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com West Virginia =96 Moving Object MORGANTOWN -- At about 7 PM, the witness went to Matt his friends house on April 2, 2005. They were talking about a job to do the next day when he looked over his solder and saw a bright star, but it seemed too bright? Then he noticed it was moving up and it dimmed to be a speck. Australia - Triangle MELBOURNE -- On March 25, 2005, at midnight green lights in a triangular formation were spotted on March 25, 2005, at midnight that rotated slowly, with very little movement, heading east. The object was seen for twenty minutes. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Argentina - Strange Sphere Seen Twice SANTA ROSA -- Raul Oscar Chaves reports, "Two eye witnesses- Julieta Pereyra and Cristina Diaz-walking along noticed the movement of a spherical object of a light gray color in the sky. The object stood out for its odd shape presenting two protrusions or extensions shaped like a bow or a "U" on its upper section, with its tips pointing upward. =94The witnesses stated that the strange object was seen some seventy degrees over the horizon and to the northeast of the city, descending vertically. Their view of the object was hampered by the city's buildings. The object was as wide as a hand, at arm's length. The sighting took place "at 12 noon on April 11, 2005. Four days later on April 15, 2005, at 1600 hours, Lorena Urban and Matias Bonifacino witnessed a spherical object moving east over Santa Rosa, and some 30 degrees over the horizon. They noted that the object "was shaped like the full moon and had a glassy or shiny appearance, with two projections shaped like an open "U", remarking that the base of this sphere was flat. The witnesses added that some sort of "belt" could be seen in the sphere's midsection and some sort of opening or "door" on its side, also it had a glassy appearance but was darker gray in color. Translation (c) 2005 Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU). CIUFOS-La Pampa Canada - A Fast Moving Object SIOUX LOOKOUT, ONTARIO =96 On April 14, 2005, at 11 PM, three star sized white objects were seen flying over the town beach overlooking the water. I noticed something moving, I looked and saw a blurred object moving very fast. At first, I thought it was strange that a night animal/bird could fly that fast. I followed the object and realized it was three lights flying at the same velocity but not in a straight parallel formation and I lost them behind a street lamp. MT. BAKER, B.C.. =96 On April 17, 2005, a well educated teacher was glancing out her window when she noticed a large round dark object floating near the clouds. She first thought it looked like a melon but when she looked through her binoculars she told me it looked just like a large barrel just floating there. At first she thought it was stationary but as she watched realized it was slowly floating SE towards MT. Baker. She said, It was absolutely huge and the binoculars brought it up really close. But otherwise it was dark and barrel shaped and I couldn't tell me much about it. She said as she watched it, it just seemed to slowly disappear and she didn't know where it went. I asked her how far away it was when she saw it and she figured maybe over Surrey but she wasn't sure, just that it looked huge when viewed through the binoculars. I believe she has a pair about 7 X 30. They are those little ones you can put in a purse. She kept saying, I've never seen anything like that in my life. I told her to join the club, now you have seen a UFO. Thanks Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Home India =96 Vimana UFOs Flew in 4,000 B.C. According to Dr. V. Raghavan, retired head of the Sanskrit department of India's prestigious University of Madras, contends that centuries-old documents in Sanskrit (the classical language of India and Hinduism) prove that aliens from outer space visited his nation. "Fifty years of researching this ancient works convinces me that there are livings beings on other planets, and that they visited earth as far back as 4,000 B.C., " The scholar says. "There is a just a mass of fascinating information about flying machines, even fantastic science fiction weapons, that can be found in translations of the Vedas (scriptures), Indian epics, and other ancient Sanskrit text. "In the Mahabharata (writings), there is notion of divine lighting and ray weapons, even a kind of hypnotic weapon. And in the Ramayana writings, there is a description of Vimanas, or flying machines, that navigated at great heights with the aid of quicksilver and a great propulsive wind. "These were space vehicles similar to the so-called flying saucers reported throughout the world today. The Ramayana even describes a beautiful chariot which 'arrived shining, a wonderful divine car that sped through the air'. In another passage, there is mention of a chariot being seen 'sailing overhead like a moon.' "The references in the Mahabharata are no less astounding: At Rama's behest, the magnificent chariot rose up to a mountain of cloud with a tremendous din. Another passage reads: "Bhima flew with his Vimana on an enormous ray which was as brilliant as the sun and made a noise like the thunder of a storm." In the ancient Vymanka-Shastra (science of aeronautics), there is a description of a Vimana: "An apparatus which can go by its own force, from one place to place or globe to globe." Dr. Raghavan points out, "The text's revelations become even more astounding. Thirty-one parts of which the machine consists are described, including a photographing mirror underneath. The text also enumerates 16 kinds of metal that are needed to construct the flying vehicle: "But only three of them are known to us today. The rest remain untranslatable." Thanks to the India Daily. Saudi Arabia SHAROURAH, Empty Quarter -- A light looking like a star was moving fast at very high altitude towards the southeast on March 29, 2005, at 5:30 PM. It slowed down as it reached at the top of our camping site and hovered for a while, then it zigzagged as it flew away until it faded. It seemed like it was imitating a star. Stars are very bright at night in a desert so it was easy to identify its movement. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com UK/England - 25 High Flying Lights FELSTED, GT DUNMOW (ESSEX) -- On March 21, 2005, at midnight, twenty five lights in an irregular pattern flew on a flight path from the southeast to the northwest to the north of Stanstead Airport. There were no sounds of engines and UK aircraft were passing underneath the lights flying out of Gatwick and Heathrow. Thanks to Peter Davenport, Director, www.UFOcenter.com Donate to Filer's Files to receive UFO CD So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. George A. Filer has been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Your dollars do make a difference! We appreciate our loyal subscribers and will continue to grow with your help. Right now we need $300 to upgrade our website. Annual Membership is only $25 for 52 weekly intelligence reports. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055. You can also go to: "ttps://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master Charge. REAL ESTATE Relocation Help! Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help you relocate, buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at: Majorstar.nul MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to "ttp://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico - Yturria From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:30:25 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 07:14:12 -0400 Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico - Yturria >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:34:42 -0400 >Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:54:34 +0000 >>Subject: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>Two new UFO fleets were videotaped over Mexico city on April 11, >>2005 by skywatcher Arturo Robles Gil adding more suspense to the >>very unusual UFO activity recorded recently over the world's >>most populated city, a mystery that keeps the Mexican people in >>a mixed state of excitement and uncertainty. >>The sighting took place in broad day light and began with a >>formation of seven objects, white luminous and sphere-shaped. >>Robles Gil made a good zoom shot into one of the objects and >>described it as an intense luminous light, like plasma energy. >>Our investigation on these unusual incidents continues, studying >>and analyzing every piece of information, testimonial and >>graphic evidence. The number of cases that we have on this UFO >>fleet phenomena is certainly large and the recent manifestations >>videotaped suggest that it's increasing in number for reasons >>yet to be defined. >No, no, Santiago! You have it all wrong! Those videos mean >nothing. Don't you understand? Allow me to explain: All of the >Mexican people are so rock-stupid that they think ordinary >balloons and birds are UFOs! Mexicans see a flock of birds and >they run indoors to get their video cameras! Not only that..... >The Mexican military is so stupid and incompetent that they >cannot tell the difference between oil-well fires on the ground >and flying saucers surrounding their aircraft! Why, according to >'some' of our more brilliant ufological commentators, just about >everyone in your country is mentally handicapped/challenged. >Only people who live north of your borders have the intelligence >and clear sightedness to see those objects being recorded in >Mexico for the birds and balloons that they really are. But >don't worry, we Norte- Americanos understand that it must be the >hot sun that makes so many Mexican people confuse birds and >balloons with something unusual in the sky. Maybe the Mexican >people have never seen birds in the sky or balloons escape >during a birthday party. For some reason that most Americans >cannot understand the sight of birds and balloons seems to set >the Mexican people into a frenzy to record the event on video. >Mi hermano, until the OVNIs are filling the skies over every >major American city, (and maybe not even then!) the smug critics >on this side of the fence will continue to criticize and dismiss >any reports originating from the people of your backward, >ignorant country. >Entiendes como trabaja la cosa? (Understand how this thing >works?) >Warm regards to you and Jaime. You guys are fighting an all >uphill battle with the international community. You have my >respect. But most of all... you have my undying support. >Until the day the truth is known by all. Hello John, Complementing your comments I would like to say that we have made many actual comparisons with balloons. Even expensive tests to be videotaped studying their behavior at certain altitudes. We have all these balloons fleets recreations on tape since 1994 and I assure you definitely: All of them described the same movement pattern again and again each test was made. A disorganized and desynchronized flying paths everywhere in all directions and this of course follows the logic and physics laws. As a matter of fact when Pope John Paul II visited Mexico there were thrown many balloons to the sky when his plane was about to land and I think this was just great!! Because this incident gave us the opportunity to videotape those balloons in the sky that memorable day when also UFOs were witnessed over Mexico city including a UFO fleet. Then we made the study comparing both videos, the balloons and the UFO fleet and the results were more than explicit. The balloons formation was so disorganized and every balloon acting in an independent random behavior while the announced UFO fleet preserved all the time the perfect formation, every object kept the same exact distance from the other and all the formation was moving in perfect synch as a whole body. You and I know very well that this manoeuvers to be performed by a bunch of balloons is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSIBLE!! That will just go against the pyshic laws even if they are tied togheter. We have shown the comparisons to some aeronautical engineers and experts to get their opinions and conclusions as part of these investigations and their comments have been definitive. Certainly no ballooons nor birds. Period. These interviews have been presented on national television many times. Recently we invited a representative of Mexico's major advertisement balloon manufacturer to review the fleets videos specially the recent ones with the premise he will express his opinions and conclusions freely and without any pressure. His comments were clear and he was impressed by these videos. Definitely he declared these were not balloons of any kind and their manoeuvers were so perfectly synchronized for a such large number of objects in the sky at the same time that this incidents were amazing. And he is a professional expert in balloons, blimps and wheater flying devices of any kind so this is indeed a definitive opinion do you agree ? This interview was also presented on national tv so we are demonstrating to the mexican people we are very serious on this and following our compromise to them to share every advance on these investigations. This is real investigative work my friend, not just a behind desk alleged expertise throwing away speculations and fallacies to any issue related to UFOs. So after all these studies what's left ? Of course these unusual sightings defy our common sense and result - as I said - hard to belive. It's natural and very understanding. To imagine more than a hundres luminous objects flying in formation over the most populated city may result like a SCI-FI tale. Hard to belive this "kind of invasion" for some people." multiple signs on the sky" for others etc. is actually taking place and despite all expectations this is really happening and we have hard and solid evidences to challenge any individual that dares to define this specific phenomena as Balloons or Birds. The only requirement to accept this challenge is to adopt a serious and scientific attitude forgetting eccentricity, personal vendettas or ignorant and naive postures. These will not be accepted, this is serious. We are not trying to prove anything here because there's nothing to prove yet regarding this fleet phenomena. The term fleet is just a name to establish this specific category of sightings that refer to a very unusual phenomena and according to the evidences on video and testimonials. We adopt the most objective position and don't attempt to identify these strange flying formations. We are saying all these are still unidentified and we still have not a sustainable theory to propose regarding the origin, motives and intentions of these multi object formations. We simply don't know yet what they are, period. For those who sustain the term extraterrestial, alien or crafts from other worlds ironically as part of their debunking proposal to this specific phenomena may just be considered eccentrics. By a general rule anything related to UFOs has been always associated with aliens and extraterrestials but this is an old custome that comes since the late 40's and will continue, there's nothing we can do about it. But we must keep on mind the exact meaning of the word UFO that in escence does not compromise any posture since is implying exactly that: "Not identified". So who's the naive here ? So let's get rid of these fallacies and bad habits and get serious in this investigation. Let's rely on facts and evidences as we have many here in Mexico. We sustain that still don't know what these objects are or where do they come from and we continue with our study in the best of our efforts. We are compromised to open and share these informations to the world as well as our personal findings and advances in these studies and we don't pretend or expect to receive any approval or disapproval as this is a highly complex phenomena even for the most advanced military intelligency in the world. So everyone is entitled to make his best opionion and conclusion but at the end this will not change anything and the phenomena will remain as it has been through decades: A mystery. Therefore dear John don't worry on this one. Those balloons and birds theories are easy ones on this debate belive me. Just like those good old classic Venus - swamp gases - falling stars - Blue Book-USAF - explanations that did not convince even a kid these recent attempts to explain the UFO fleets are not sustainable. We will always be open to any serious approach to discuss this phenomena if within the rules established. No eccentricity, no personal revenge or naive arguments based on cheap speculations. We will be here anytime.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 Chance To Put Ufology In Swedish Media From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:44:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 07:16:30 -0400 Subject: Chance To Put Ufology In Swedish Media A Swedish newspaper is holding a vote for individuals to have an article published. Amongst the contenders is Claes Svahn of UFO- Sweden. I have had dealings with Claes and found him to be a dilligent and hard-working ufologist. To register your vote for him, visit: www.aftonbladet.se/vss/debatt/story/0,2789,634015,00.html and click the radio button next to " Claes Svahn, ordf=F6rande UFO-Sverige: Vad regeringen b=F6r g=F6ra f=F6r UFO-forskningen ". Your vote will be registered as soon as you click, and the results displayed. Currently, he is neck-and-neck with Lottie Knutson, apparently best known for her coverage of the Tsunami, so your vote could tip the balance! I am sure that if Claes can get his article published, it will benefit AFU (the archiving project run by him and other members of the Swedish UFO scene) which in turn will benefit international ufology.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 Wow! Exempt & Beta Together From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:51:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 07:26:55 -0400 Subject: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together Wow! Hard to know what else to say. I just read Exempt from Disclosure (Collins and Doty) and then Project Beta (Bishop). My head is swimming. Definitely a brain-scambling event! What to believe? Whom to believe? Are these guys crazy, or is they actually putting a hole in the "iron (cover-up) curtain?" Where these books intersect (Bennewitz, Moore) there are slight differences in the history, but the quandary come clear in both: who is telling the truth? And, if someone is, can we handle the truth? Actually the typical reader will be in more of a quandary after reading EfD (Exempt....) because it goes far beyond PB (Beta)..... Here, for the first time anywhere (in publication, as far as I know) are the names and activities of _living_ men who claim to have first hand knowledge of AFC (alien flying craft) and alien technology and alien bodies and... live aliens! On the first page of the book (pg 3) the reader gets a flavor of the openness of the presentation in the lst f names associated to the investigation as it began almost 20 years ago. Some names are recognized immediately, along with their Aviary (bird) names: Bill Moore Jaime Shandara Two names are less well known (the book authors) Richard Doty (Falcon stand-in) Robert Collins (Condor) Three names that are known from a totally different history (deceased): James J.Angleton Allen Dulles Richard Helms And a name unknown to most UFO investigators: Ernie Kellerstrauss (Hawk). Ernie Kellerstrauss? Who ordered him, you say? He is a source for a sizeable fraction of what is in the book. And then a few pages later we find: Dale Graff (Falcon?) Kit Green (Blue Jay) Other people play a faint supporting role as compared to that of Doty and Kellerstrauss in terms of providing information that indicates a cover-up. One, of many name(s,) not in the book - except as co-author of the "Inflation..." paper that was published in JBIS used as a reference - is Bruce Maccabee (Seagull) But I have a part of it, small though it may be. I was probably the first person to interview Hawk at length after he was "discovered" by Collins. This was in the Nov-Dec 1985. I met him in Feb 1986. By that time I had from him an amazing story which, however, I now realize was only part of what he, apparently, knew. I also was on the periphery of the Bennewitz saga, having spoken to him once while investigating the Kirtland Landing documents - when I met Doty for the first and last time. In the following weeks and months I expect this book to stir up a controversy comparable to that over the Roswell case, but with a difference: now there are people who have gone public - and some that have been 'outed' whether they want it or not - so now we will see who has the fortitude to stand behind their claims or will collapse in the barrage of attacks that are sure to come. But, more on that later. For now, to whet your appetite, just let me say that in this book you will find the back story leading up to "Cover Up Live" and much more. (It's not just about strawberry ice cream and Tibetan music.) To get the full understanding of what is coming down the pike I recommend reading both these books, perhaps in this order.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 Rewriting Mars' History Again And Again From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:14:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 19:42:36 -0400 Subject: Rewriting Mars' History Again And Again Forwarding permission was given by William R. Corliss http://www.science-frontiers.com SCIENCE FRONTIERS, No. 159, May-Jun 2005, p. 2 ASTRONOMY Rewriting Mars' history again, again, and again Over a century ago, P. Lowell, peering at Mars through his private telescope on Flagstaff Mountain, Arizona, was convinced the planet was crisscrossed by artificial canals that distributed polar melt water to a thirsty planet. But cameras on the Mariner flybys in the 1960s saw only a perpetually dry, very cold planet, sans canals. Mars could not be the "abode" of life proclaimed by Lowell. In the 1970s, though, the Viking spacecraft took pictures of Mars with much higher resolution. Great channels and valleys that must have once been cut by some fluid ("water" at the top of the list) led to the hypothesis that Mars had experienced long ago a Noachian Epoch, when the planet was very wet. This water ultimately soaked into the soil or froze out at the poles. These facts gave rise to the MIDDEN hypothesis that dominated the thinking of planetologists until very recently. (MIDDEN = Mars has been dead and dry except for the Noachian!) The latest Martian satellites, such as Mars Express, are armed with higher-resolution stereoscopic cameras. And the planet's history has changed again. The new cameras saw very recently cut gullies and channels carved by cataclysmic flooding. ...as recently as a few million years ago, the surface of Mars was being shaped by flowing water, lava, and ice. (Baker, Victor R.; "Picturing a Recently Active Mars," Nature, 434:280, 2005) Comments. Thus, the MIDDEN theory bit the Martian dust, particularly in the time dimension. One now ponders a wet, geologically active Mars during the same period when primates were evolving on earth. Could the same forces that stimulated geological revolution on Mars also have influenced biological revolution on earth? Or, perhaps, life on Mars, too? Astronomers used to calculate the ages of Martian terrains by counting the number of craters present. However, infrared images from Mars Odyssey reveal that major meteor impacts on Mars also created many more small, secondary craters than used in the old time estimates. These "extra" small craters have required a resetting of the Martian "crater-clock." (Van Flandern, Tom; "Dating Surface Features on Mars," Meta Research Bulletin, 14:15, March 15, 2005) Question. Might Mars have been wet and active during the time of Homo sapiens on earth? Climatic changes can be very abrupt as proven by earth's switch from an Ice Age to today's moderate climate in a few thousand years. Climatic changes on Mars could have been just as sudden. Any Martian life forms had to react quickly - possibly by digging in! Or, if intelligent enough, changing planets! We see science-fiction plots aplenty in these new observations.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 Not A Subtle Signal! From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:40:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:35:29 -0400 Subject: Not A Subtle Signal! Forwarding permission was given by William R. Corliss http://www.science-frontiers.com SCIENCE FRONTIERS, No. 159, May-Jun 2005, p. 3 GEOLOGY Not a subtle signal! Our bodies live comfortably with the strong diurnal signal forced upon us by the earth's rotation. The annual signal, too, is strong, and many move to Florida under its influence. The 11- year sunspot cycle is hardly noticed in daily life. Multi- thousand-year climatic cycles are seen in Greenland ice cores and the like, although we are not sure exactly which terrestrial or astronomical signals create these very long cycles. Now, scrutinizing the fossil record of life's diversity, R.A. Rohde and R.A. Muller, have found a strong, undeniable 62- million-year periodicity in the number of existing genera. (Genera are one step higher than species in the taxonomic ladder.) The total diversity of life, it seems, shrinks and swells by several hundred genera every 62 million years. This extremely long cycle has persisted since the Cambrian Explosion over 500 million years ago - that Big Bang in biological diversity. What caused this 62-million-year ripple effect? Or the Cambrian Explosion itself for that matter? Rohde and Muller have examined 14 possible geophysical and astronomical driving forces, but nothing terrestrial or extraterrestrial fits the 62-million-year bill. Some theoretical biologists verge on the mystical when they propose that no external driving force may be in play. Rather, life's diversity may oscillate as a holistic biological characteristic - just as some chemical reactions oscillate of their own accord. Rohde and Muller end their paper with: Although no explanation exists, the 62-Myr cycle is not a subtle signal. It is evident in the raw data, dominant in the short-lived genera, and strongly confirmed by statistical analysis. We do not know whether this cycle is a variation in true diversity or only in observed diversity, but either case requires explanation and implies that an unknown periodic process has been having a significant impact on Earth's environment throughout the Phanerozoic. (Rohde, Robert A., and Muller, Richard A.; "Cycles in Fossil Diversity," Nature, 434:208, 2005. Perlman, David; "Mass Extinction Comes Every 62 Million Years, UC Physicists Discover," San Francisco Chronicle web site, March 10, 2005. Cr. H.H. Henry) Comment. One can also imagine an unrecognized universal force modulating biological creativity-and-elimination - something akin perhaps to R. Sheldrake's "morphic resonance" or even, less likely, to all-pervasive "dark matter", whose role in life we haven't divined. SCIENCE FRONTIERS is a bimonthly collection of scientific
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 Extreme LDEs From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:31:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:38:54 -0400 Subject: Extreme LDEs Forwarding permission was given by William R. Corliss http://www.science-frontiers.com SCIENCE FRONTIERS, No. 159, May-Jun 2005, p. 4 GEOPHYSICS Extreme LDEs LDEs (Long-Delayed Echoes) are heard fairly often by radio hams. Usually, their signals are reflected back to them delayed by just a few seconds. But since radio waves travel 186,000 miles/second, any reflector must be located far beyond the moon's orbit. Question: what's out there? LDEs have been recognized and puzzled over since 1927. (SF#10, SF#39) But so far no completely convincing explanation has been forthcoming. Three ideas thrown on the table have been: Multiple trips of the signal around the world with the ionosphere's help. Signal trapping in ionospheric ducts. Reflections from distant plasma clouds. Most LDE research has been carried out by radio hams, who have now discovered a new twist to the LDE puzzle: some LDEs return not in just a few seconds but in minutes and even hours! Can you imagine a radio reflector a light-hour distant? After all, the sun is only 8 light-minutes away. Japanese hams have been at the forefront in collecting these extremely long LDEs. M. Obara, in Tokyo (call letters TZ6JA), summarized the situation as follows. All of these records (except UL7GW) indicate very long delay times ranging from 20 minutes to 82 hours. Converting these times to distances... corresponds to round trips of 1.8 - 297 AU (Astronomical Unit, 1 AU = 150 million kilometers, or about 93 million miles, the distance between the Earth and the Sun). These delay times suggest the existence of two hypothetical interplanetary ionospheres, composed of numerous magnetic and plasma tails of small planets and debris, located mainly at the minor planet belt (asteroid belt) and the Kuiper belt (a region beyond Neptune containing thousands of small bodies orbiting the sun that is believed to be the spawning ground of many short-period comets. (Obara, Mac; "Long-Delayed Echoes: Reflections from an Ionosphere in Space?", CQ, 24, Feb 2005. Cr. L.M. Nash) SCIENCE FRONTIERS is a bimonthly collection of scientific anomalies in the current literature. Published by the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 A Very High Satellite & Some Very Low Satellites? From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:40:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:41:01 -0400 Subject: A Very High Satellite & Some Very Low Satellites? Forwarding permission was given by William R. Corliss http://www.science-frontiers.com SCIENCE FRONTIERS, No. 159, May-Jun 2005, p. 4 #1 A very high satellite? A bright object moving slowly southeast to northwest was captured on film at two Hawaiian observatories: Mauna Kea and Haleakala. The object was visible for about 55 minutes at Haleakala and 30 minutes at Mauna Kea. Artificial earth satellites are usually visible for only a few dozen seconds. The object could be a satellite at a very, very high altitude, but NASA knows of none that fits the observations. The mysterious object is shown in motion on a NASA website. (Anonymous; WORLDNETDaily.com, February 8, 2005. Cr. P. Huyghe) #2 Some very low satellites? Responding in the *Journal of Scientific Exploration* to an article on ball lightning, J.M. Knowles doubts that ball lightning can explain all anomalous aerial objects, particularly the one he describes below: A WW 2 combat pilot, subsequently engaged in aircraft marketing for many years, I may be allowed at least an average appreciation of aeroforms and their flight characteristics. I have personally seen UFOs on eight separate occasions from 1940 to 2004. One of them shed what I later heard referred to as "angel hair" all over my car on Via Veneto in Rome at 3 o'clock on a sunny, clear Friday afternoon in June 1954. The source, witnessed by scores of people sitting outside Doney's Cafe, was one of a flight of seven large (50-plus foot) disks slowly moving at low altitude in the direction of the Roman Forum. Ball lightning indeed! (Knowles, J.M.; "Ball Lightning or UFOs?", *Journal of Scientific Exploration*, 19:123, 2005)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 AFU Sweden? From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:09:19 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:42:03 -0400 Subject: AFU Sweden? Klaas (Claes), do you have any progress updates on your project for the List?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:13:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:45:20 -0400 Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico - Velez >From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:30:25 +0000 >Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:34:42 -0400 >>Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>>From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:54:34 +0000 >>>Subject: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico <snip> Hola Santiago, All, Thank you for taking the time to post this information, (yet again!) apparently it needs to be reiterated from time to time. I just get more than a little sick and tired of the blatant and ridiculous insults to the basic intelligence and integrity of the Mexican people who are recording and reporting these unusual objects and events. The ease with which the reports coming out of Mexico are dismissed has more to do with long-held prejudices and imagined superiority than it has to do with the results of an investigation or conclusions that are arrived at via scientific methodology. This most recent post about the 'fleet videos' being mere balloons is a perfect example. Nobody has bothered to check I'm sure, but... No 'fleet videos' were either recorded or submitted for the date mentioned for the balloon release: April the 7th, when this event took place. The most recent video and the one closest to the date of the balloon flight is from, April the 11 th. The video was recorded at 8:30 in the morning. A Monday morning, with not a single demonstration happening in the cities of M=E9xico. The article also mentions how the balloons were 'yellow.' How the balloons 'turned the sky yellow' there were so many. The objects being recorded are 'white.' And by the way, can they explain all of the other videos? It's ridiculous how easily the reports and recordings are dismissed without the slightest attempt at investigation. In fact, it's nothing short of insulting. Which is what prompted my sarcastic missive on the subject. I have videotaped the exact same objects in the skies over New York City on several occasions. Bill Hamilton, Tom King and others have recorded -identical- objects navigating around in our skies out west, in Arizona and California. These same objects have been recorded all over the globe. Yet people here insist the objects are ordinary balloons and birds without giving the material second look. Talk about having your head buried in the sand! The skies over Mexico are becoming the center stage of first contact while the rest of the world dismisses it as misinterpretation of ordinary birds and balloons and looks the other way. How sad. What a commentary on us.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 28 Radar UFO Triggers Washington Security Alert From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:58:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 20:47:55 -0400 Subject: Radar UFO Triggers Washington Security Alert A moving "UFO" picked up on radar triggered a security alert in Washington D.C. yesterday (April 27). http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/27/AR2005042701937. html Also: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/04/27/national/w151233D01.D TL http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/04/27/national/w091938D92.D TL As the stories indicate, it was later explained away as "clouds" (or maybe rain or a flock of birds) creating a false radar image. These "explanations" seem lame and very reminiscent of the 1952 Washington UFO radar images being explained away as false targets created by a temperature inversion. David Rudiak ---------------- D.C. Alert Triggered By Clouds By Sara Kehaulani Goo and Spencer S. Hsu Washington Post Staff Writers Thursday, April 28, 2005; Page A05 The mysterious flying object first blipped across U.S. security radar 20 miles south of Reagan National Airport at 10:40 a.m. yesterday and appeared headed swiftly toward the District. About 15 minutes later, President Bush was in an underground bunker at the White House and Vice President Cheney was escorted off the White House grounds to a secure location, officials said. The "target" -- as Customs and Border Protection officials called it -- showed up on the radar intermittently. It was moving through restricted airspace at about the speed of a helicopter, said agency spokesman Gary Bracken. Customs officials reported the object's approach to the Domestic Events Network, a 24-hour secure communications line connecting all major security-related agencies. Army officials at Davison Army Airfield in Fort Belvoir, Va., spotted a low-flying helicopter in the area but could not determine whether it was the object that had set off the alert. After vanishing from radar, the target then reappeared several minutes later -- this time just seven miles from National Airport, stirring serious concern among Customs and Border Protection officials, Bracken said. The agency dispatched a Black Hawk helicopter to the scene. A U.S. Park Police helicopter and another from a local law enforcement agency, which were already airborne, also scanned the area. But all the search teams saw were clouds. Turns out, that's all it was. "It does happen," Bracken said. "We have to deal with weather anomalies showing up on the radar screen." U.S. officials say it is not uncommon for radars scanning the sky for terrorist threats to mistake a weather system or a flock of birds for a unidentified aircraft -- and it sends them scrambling. Yesterday's scare was the first known incident to send the president to the White House underground bunker since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Officials said the swift reaction illustrated the improved communication system among security agencies charged with keeping the sky around Washington secure. "Out of an abundance of caution, the appropriate security measures were taken," said Brian Roehrkasse, spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security. "Basically there was an apparent aircraft that showed up on the radar, it turned out to be a blip. Aircraft already in the vicinity were able to verify there was in fact no plane." The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration confirmed that a patch of clouds was moving through the area yesterday where the radar picked up the mysterious target. The temperature was about 63 degrees with light wind and possibly very light showers north of Quantico at the time Customs officials said the blip hit their radar, said Jim Lee, meteorologist in charge at the NOAA Washington-Baltimore weather forecast office. "There were certainly clouds in the airspace," Lee said. At the White House yesterday, witnesses said some staff members and visitors were removed, and armed, uniformed Secret Service officers took position around the executive mansion. The Secret Service said it took action because "there was a potential violation of the restricted airspace," said spokesman Jim Mackin. White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the president was in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together - Jamieson From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:14:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:18:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together - Jamieson >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:51:35 -0400 >Subject: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together >Wow! >Hard to know what else to say. >I just read Exempt from Disclosure (Collins and Doty) and then >Project Beta (Bishop). >My head is swimming. Definitely a brain-scambling event! What to >believe? Whom to believe? What does the track record (of Richard Doty in particular) suggest? Disinformation, perhaps? >Are these guys crazy, or is they actually putting a hole in the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: The Engineered Moon - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:06:56 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:20:08 -0400 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon - Smith >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Sent: Apr 19, 2005 7:34 PM >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Subject: UFO UpDate: The Engineered Moon >Source: The Epoch Times >http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-4-16/27911.html >http://www.geocities.com/jilaens/moon.htm The above reference had the following statement "4. On March 7, 1971, lunar instruments placed by the astronauts recorded a vapor cloud of water passing across the surface of the moon. The cloud lasted 14 hours and covered an area of about 100 square miles." This implication is that some weird thing was happening and that the Moon is more than we think. To be honest, I had little problem with this Moon water idea but I decided anyway to examine the original report from 1973 by J.W. Freeman. He speculated then that the only source could be the Moon (an internal water source). He also relates how this could be the cause of Lunar Transient Phenomena. However, I searched on other papers by this gentleman and found a later paper called "The Apollo lunar surface water vapor event revisited", from 1991. His NEW conclusion is as follows... "It is concluded that during most of the event the observed water vapor ions were accelerated by the negative lunar surface
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Secrecy News -- 04/28/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:30:48 -0400 Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:00:32 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/28/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 41 April 28, 2005 ** CRS: WHITE HOUSE ERRS ON DETENTION OF AMERICANS ** NCTC TERRORISM CHRONOLOGY 2004 ** NSPD 40: U.S. SPACE TRANSPORTATION POLICY ** CRS ON US BASES IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN ** MCLAUGHLIN STATEMENT ON CURVEBALL CRS: WHITE HOUSE ERRS ON DETENTION OF AMERICANS A new report from the Congressional Research Service disputes the Bush Administration's claim that the President has unlimited authority to detain American citizens in wartime if he deems them to be enemy combatants. The CRS report reviews the legislative history of the 1950 "Emergency Detention Act," which was repealed in 1971, and finds that it clearly limited the authority of the entire executive branch, and not only the Attorney General, to detain American citizens. To argue otherwise, "one would have to believe that Congress, in 1971, intended to limit imprisonment or detention [only] by civilian authorities [but not by military authorities]. The legislative history does not support that nterpretation...." Most CRS reports are even-handed to a fault and do not normally endorse either side of a disputed issue. So it is noteworthy that the new report deviates from that standard practice and concludes that the Bush Administration is simply wrong. A copy of the report, issued today (though not publicly "released"), was obtained by Secrecy News. See "Detention of U.S. Citizens," by Louis Fisher, Congressional Research Service, April 28, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22130.pdf NCTC TERRORISM CHRONOLOGY 2004 Following criticism that the Bush Administration was improperly withholding data showing that terrorist activity increased last year, the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) released its chronology of terrorist incidents for 2004, which does indeed show a marked increase. However, the NCTC document states, "Because terrorism is a tactic, used on many fronts, by diverse perpetrators in different circumstances and with different aims, NCTC cautions against using incident data alone to gauge success in the War on Terrorism." But for precisely the same reasons, one may say that the concept of a "War on Terrorism" itself is incoherent and misleading. See "A Chronology of Significant International Terrorism for 2004," National Counterterrorism Center, April 29, 2005 (2.8 MB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/nctc2004.pdf The State Department was sharply criticized earlier this week by Rep. Henry Waxman for withholding this information and marking it "for official use only." See Rep. Waxman's April 26, 2005 letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice: http://www.democrats.reform.house.gov/Documents/20050426105426- 41669.pdf NSPD 40: U.S. SPACE TRANSPORTATION POLICY A recent National Security Presidential Directive (NSPD) calls for the "transformation" of U.S. space transportation capabilities and directs agencies to develop and supply new launch capabilities for national security and space exploration purposes. "Before 2010, the United States shall demonstrate an initial capability for operationally responsive access to and use of space to support national security requirements," the Directive states. ("Operationally responsive access" means "providing capacity to respond to unexpected loss or degradation of selected capabilities, and/or to provide timely availability of tailored or new capabilities.") The U.S. Government will also "Develop space transportation capabilities to enable human space exploration beyond low Earth orbit, consistent with the direction contained in U.S. Space Exploration Policy, dated January 14, 2004," the Directive states. NSPD 40 on U.S. Space Transportation Policy was signed on December 21, 2004. The text of the Directive has not been publicly released, but a descriptive Fact Sheet dated January 6, 2005 is here: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-40.pdf CRS ON US BASES IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN The U.S. Department of Defense is spending billions of dollars on military construction of bases in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the specific nature and purpose of those expenditures is not entirely clear, a Congressional Research Service memo stated. "Very little information is available publicly on DOD's plans for bases in or around Iraq or Afghanistan," the CRS noted. The information that is publicly available on such military construction appropriations and related statutory authorities was helpfully compiled and described by CRS earlier this month. See "Military Construction in Support of Afghanistan and Iraq," CRS memorandum, April 11, 2005 (thanks to CH): http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/milcon041105.pdf MCLAUGHLIN STATEMENT ON CURVEBALL Like former DCI George J. Tenet, former Deputy Director of Central Intelligence John E. McLaughlin denied having been informed that the Iraqi defector and U.S. intelligence source known as "Curveball" had been identified as unreliable as early as 2002, as reported by the Silberman-Robb WMD Commission. "I did not know prior to Secretary Powell's UN speech that some of the information used in the biological weapons (BW) section was the product of a likely fabricator," McLaughlin said in an April 1 statement released to the press. A copy of the statement, courtesy of Mr. McLaughlin, is available here: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/wmd_mclaughlin.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank email message to secrecy_news-remove.nul OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood.nul voice: (202) 454-4691 Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Alarmingly Frequent UFO Crashes From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:01:35 -0500 Subject: Alarmingly Frequent UFO Crashes List, Here's the latest ufological essay to appear on my daily blog: Skeptics of alleged UFO crashes like to wonder why, if visiting ETs are vastly superior to us, they seem to crash their vehicles so alarmingly often. It's a fair question, and one that defenders of crash-retrieval cases have yet to adequately address. This is partly due to the prevalent tendency to assume that "flying saucers," given their existence, are necessarily extraterrestrial craft thousands of years in advance of earthly aircraft. It's generally assumed UFO crashes are grievous accidents. I'm not so sure. Deliberately offering a crashed saucer (and its technological bounty) to an emerging civilization might be a rather artful form of misdirection. "UFO lawyer" Peter Gersten likens the so-called Roswell Incident to a viral infection introduced by an entity he terms "Silog" ("silicon organism"), whose role is to supplant carbon-based life with its cybernetic equivalent. He cites the rise of brain-machine interfaces as possible evidence that we're slowly but certainly merging with Silog - perhaps recklessly. A less malign reason to stage saucer crashes might be to inject terrestrial science with vital new ideas without the risk of (potentially disastrous) open contact. Purposefully crashed UFOs could also serve as a sort of invitation to officialdom, allowing the decision for open contact (or simply official acknowledgement) to be made by terrestrial leaders, an idea explored by Whitley Strieber in his fiction book "Majestic." But there's a more esoteric consideration to explore. If UFOs represent a paranormal intelligence of the sort proposed by Jacques Vallee and John Keel, then operating within the confines of our universe may be surprisingly difficult, even clumsy; the aliens of close-encounter lore may be rather like astronauts forced to wear cumbersome spacesuits. Our familiar world of atoms and molecules may be decidedly foreign to our visitors, who may hail from higher-dimensional space. In their native environment, ufonauts may consist of pure thought; visiting Earth could entail "downshifting" to a gross level in which accidents can and do happen - up to and including Roswell Incidents. Additionally, throughout the history of the UFO phenomenon, one finds "aliens" behaving in bizarre fashion. Some "abductees" report alien beings wearing human clothes in an apparent attempt to fit in. Enduring Men In Black sightings, as recounted in Keel's "The Mothman Prophecies," indicate that unearthly intelligences have a limited understanding of human culture, revealed through anachronistic dress or evident incomprehension when faced with trivial activities. One is forced to conclude that either the controlling intelligence/s wants to draw attention to itself or else it really is impaired in some way; either scenario could help provide a plausible explanation for saucer crashes, which seem all-too-frequent when viewed as nuts-and-bolts navigation errors. See: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2005/04/skeptics-of-alleged-ufo-crashes-like. html Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul> Website: http://www.mactonnies.com Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com Cydonian Imperative: http://cydonianimperative.blogspot.com "After the Martian Apocalypse" available from Amazon! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/074348293X Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 00:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:02:24 -0500 Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >To: UFOupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:13:55 -0400 >Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >The ease with which the reports coming out of Mexico are >dismissed has more to do with long-held prejudices. <snip> >This most recent post about the 'fleet videos' >being mere balloons is a perfect example. >Nobody has bothered to check I'm sure, but... <snip> >It's ridiculous how easily the reports and recordings are >dismissed without the slightest attempt at investigation. In >fact, it's nothing short of insulting. Which is what prompted my >sarcastic missive on the subject. <snip> >Talk about having your head buried in the sand! The skies over >Mexico are becoming the center stage of first contact while the >rest of the world dismisses it as misinterpretation of ordinary >birds and balloons and looks the other way. Hi John and All, Frankly, for me it was a big news that there is not only 1 or few witnesses of "UFO fleets" but also videos. Maybe it strange to hear, but I didn't know that such massive UFO appearances happens. For me it is big news. But I think it is normal to doubt, especially if I see such "fleets" first time and only on short video clips. OK, I started to do some research (just search in internet) and I found that such things happened not first time and not only in Mexico. Known Masses Of UFOs" In Philippines, 1979: http://www.bobpratt.org/philippines.html A series of moving bright lights" 01 February 2005, UK: http://www.scarboroughtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=800&ArticleID=9346 77 UFO Fleet Over Necochea, Argentina May 26, 2003: http://www.UFOinfo.com/news/UFOfleet.shtml And there was more (by keywords: UFO flotilla, UFO formation, UFO armada, UFO fleet). Also I found a lot of photos of "ballons releases" (unfortunately only one video) - to check, how it looks. UFO Fleets videos from Mexico looks impressive, but there was not too much information about circumstances and research of these videos. I heard that somebody did or still doing research and analysis - will be very interesting to know about results. Also is that possible to have these videos in VHS format or high-quality digital format? Thank you, Sergey Shpakovsky UFO witness from Toronto Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:02:56 -0500 Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:13:55 -0400 >Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:30:25 +0000 >>Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:34:42 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>>>From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:54:34 +0000 >>>>Subject: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico ><snip> >Hola Santiago, All, <snip> >The ease with which the reports coming out of Mexico are >dismissed has more to do with long-held prejudices and imagined >superiority than it has to do with the results of an >investigation or conclusions that are arrived at via scientific >methodology. This most recent post about the 'fleet videos' >being mere balloons is a perfect example. If you are seriously suggesting that compelling evidence for the existence of extra-terrestrial craft in our skies is being "dismissed" because it comes from Mexico, then it is quite clearly you that is the bigot here. I've looked at lots of images, videos, and written reports. Some are very intriguing. I couldn't care less where they come from. My interest is in finding something extraordinary, something for which I have no rational explanation. That's what keeps me looking. Not to prove some personal hypothesis (I don't have one), but to be there when the truth reveals itself..vigilant. If proof came from Mexico, I would be as exhilirated as if it happened on the White House lawn. I believe everyone on this List would agree. The only evidence of a dissenting view from what I've read is coming from your poison pen. And it reads like a whine against an enemy that doesn't exist. Mexico may once have been the Rodney Dangerfield of the West, but the US of A has usurped that title and appears to be intent on holding it for oh, another 3 years or so. On this I do not feel your pain. Mexico being ridiculed... have you read the papers lately? If you're gonna bring it, then bring it. <g> >Nobody has bothered to check I'm sure, but... No 'fleet videos' >were either recorded or submitted for the date mentioned for the >balloon release: April the 7th, when this event took place. > >The most recent video and the one closest to the date of the >balloon flight is from, April the 11 th. The video was recorded >at 8:30 in the morning. A Monday morning, with not a single >demonstration happening in the cities of M=E9xico. Are you basing the date of the video solely on the imprint on the tape? On Robles Gil's testimony? I would think that if someone claimed his video was of a known balloon release, and the best method you have to refute it is to cite the reported date and time of the video, then the object(s) on the video must be very strongly similar to balloons, else you could just point at the video and say, "you call those balloons"? Since the date is not verifiable, either by the videographer's report or the camera itself, this is a non-starter. Balloons unless and until evidence emerges to the contrary. >And by the way, can they explain all of the other videos? I wish someone would point me to "all the other videos". I have located one single very unimpressive video file from Robles Gil. I'd be happy to eat my words if there's any "sauce" in these other videos. My balloon comments were based entirely on the single video file linked in this thread. >It's ridiculous how easily the reports and recordings are >dismissed without the slightest attempt at investigation. In >fact, it's nothing short of insulting. Which is what prompted my >sarcastic missive on the subject. I'm sure that having your videotapes dismissed can be insulting, but you don't have to be from Mexico. Billy Meier, Bob Lazar, Ed Walters... none from Mexico. The evidence is what leads to such dismissal. The video... or what little I have been fortunate enough to see... appears first to be balloons. Unless and until I see or hear evidence that directly refutes this impression, my intellect will not allow my conscience to make the leap that they are anything but. I'm completely open to being refuted, but emotion is not a substitute for evidence. >I have videotaped the exact same objects... <snip> If you don't know what is in Robles Gil's video, how can you assert that you have videotaped the "exact same things"? >Talk about having your head buried in the sand! The skies over >Mexico are becoming the center stage of first contact while the >rest of the world dismisses it as misinterpretation of ordinary >birds and balloons and looks the other way. >How sad. What a commentary on us. Considering that Yturria makes much of the fact that the object(s) are unknown (whether mundane OR ET), you seem to have quite a different view. On what is this anomalous mindset based? And we're obviously not looking the other way... we're just waiting for something to see. The video I have seen which was the basis for this thread are something less. >The UFO occupants must think we're _all_ mentally challenged! >Peace, > >John Velez At the very least, any visiting aliens observing us scrambling the gunships and putting the POTUS in a bunker for a cloud probably looked pretty lame, too. Or was it a cloud... hmmm. <g> Best, Kyle Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: A Very High Satellite & Some Very Low From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:05:33 +0100 Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:03:36 -0500 Subject: Re: A Very High Satellite & Some Very Low >From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:40:28 -0700 >Subject: A Very High Satellite & Some Very Low Satellites? >Forwarding permission was given by William R. Corliss >http://www.science-frontiers.com >SCIENCE FRONTIERS, No. 159, May-Jun 2005, p. 4 >Responding in the *Journal of Scientific Exploration* to an >article on ball lightning, J.M. Knowles doubts that ball >lightning can explain all anomalous aerial objects, particularly >the one he describes below: >A WW 2 combat pilot, subsequently engaged in aircraft marketing >for many years, I may be allowed at least an average >appreciation of aeroforms and their flight characteristics. I >have personally seen UFOs on eight separate occasions from 1940 >to 2004. One of them shed what I later heard referred to as >"angel hair" all over my car on Via Veneto in Rome at 3 o'clock >on a sunny, clear Friday afternoon in June 1954. The source, >witnessed by scores of people sitting outside Doney's Cafe, was >one of a flight of seven large (50-plus foot) disks slowly >moving at low altitude in the direction of the Roman Forum. >Ball lightning indeed! >(Knowles, J.M.; "Ball Lightning or UFOs?", *Journal of >Scientific Exploration*, 19:123, 2005) Interesting coincidence given my post of 4/21/05 in answer to John Velez, mentioning cases of "glyph"-type UFO formations reported - also over Rome and also involving falls of silk-like fibres - in Oct-Nov that same year, and on radar over SE England during the same time frame. Martin Shough Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Nigel Watson <valis23a.nul> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:01:07 EDT Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:04:39 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:45:45 +0200 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:34:53 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear <snip> >>"In another celebrated instance, said to have happened in >>October 1957, a young Brazilian man, Antonio Villas-Boas...." >>I go on to point out that there is little resemblance between >>these incidents and the abduction phenomenon that would emerge >>in later decades -- though of course the V-B case anticipates >>sexual elements (and, one might argue, hybrids, the subject >>incidentally of an extraordinarily interesting DNA-based >>investigation being conducted these days by ufologist/chemist >>Bill Chalker and a team of scientists in Australia; see the >>current issue of International UFO Reporter, available from >>CUFOS). >>To appreciate how little prepared ufologists were for the >>modern abduction phenomenon, one has only to read Walt Webb's >>report to NICAP of his initial investigation of the Hill CE3 >>(not suspected to be an abduction then). He overlooks >>significant parts of the testimony and rationalizes away >>portions that would later be seen as seminal. The Hill episode >>was something so new and novel that ufologists failed to >>recognize it for what it signified till years later. >>It is important to turn to primary sources whenever possible. >>There, while doing historical research for my encyclopedia in >>the 1990s, I found the occasional intriguing but overlooked and >>not-understood reference to things that sound much like missing >>time that is central to the Hill case and, of course, to many >>others that would occur in its wake. The Hills presented even >>the most sophisticated ufologists -- and Webb certainly can be >>so described -- with aspects of the UFO phenomenon for which >>they had no preparation. That's one reason, maybe _the_ reason, >>it remains so important in the history of ufology. >>In the encyclopedia I wrote, in words that to me still make >>more sense most others that I've read, especially by debunkers >>who, as is their wont, find deeply threatening any hint of >>ambiguity and unanswered question, "The resolution of the Hill >>case awaits the resolution of the UFO question itself. If UFOs >>do not exist, then Barney and Betty did not meet with aliens. If >>UFOs do exist, they probably did. The evidence available to us >>from this incident alone provides no answers surer than these. >>In other words, no answers at all. For now, anyway." >Yes, it is very interesting to note that Walter Webb, like >McDonald, who were among the best researchers at the time, were >unprepared to cope with the Hill case. It was so new. So, it is >highly improbable that the Hills would have invented such a >story. I think we can fairly conclude, adding that to the >reality of Ufos, that it is a true story. Hi I don't think the Hill case was that novel or out of the ordinary in 1961. It has been argued that abductions were only noted in obscure UFO magazines unavailable to the Hills, yet if we look at the investigation of their case, they had long discussions with UFO experts within weeks of their encounter experience. From them they would have picked up plenty of information about current UFO research and theories. It should also be noted that throughout the 1950s the contactee literature and science fiction on TV and in films often contained alien encounters and abductions. Jerome Clark acknowledges that the Hill case is the key to the understanding of UFOs yet seems content to leave the matter with 'no answers'. That seems to be why 'believers' dislike the sceptics so much - they have no answers just a wry belief that they are right. Nigel Watson For an intelligent look at film and television visit: http://www.talkingpix.co.uk Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Chance To Put Ufology In Swedish Media From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:46:57 +0200 (CEST) Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:05:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Chance To Put Ufology In Swedish Media >From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:44:03 +0100 >Subject: Chance To Put Ufology In Swedish Media >A Swedish newspaper is holding a vote for individuals to have an >article published. Amongst the contenders is Claes Svahn of UFO- >Sweden. I have had dealings with Claes and found him to be a >dilligent and hard-working ufologist. >To register your vote for him, visit: >www.aftonbladet.se/vss/debatt/story/0,2789,634015,00.html >and click the radio button next to " Claes Svahn, ordf=F6rande >UFO-Sverige: Vad regeringen b=F6r g=F6ra f=F6r UFO-forskningen ". Your >vote will be registered as soon as you click, and the results >displayed. Currently, he is neck-and-neck with Lottie Knutson, >apparently best known for her coverage of the Tsunami, so your >vote could tip the balance! >I am sure that if Claes can get his article published, it will >benefit AFU (the archiving project run by him and other members >of the Swedish UFO scene) which in turn will benefit >international ufology. With my vote of today, Clas is in the first position with 41% of the voting! I encourage others to go and vote, Clas is an outstanding UFO researcher worth of our support. Rergards, V-J Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: Radar UFO Triggers Washington Security Alert From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 08:12:05 -0500 Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:06:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Radar UFO Triggers Washington Security Alert >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 10:58:00 -0700 >Subject: Radar UFO Triggers Washington Security Alert >A moving "UFO" picked up on radar triggered a security alert in >Washington D.C. yesterday (April 27). >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/27/AR2005042701937 .html <snip> >As the stories indicate, it was later explained away as "clouds" >(or maybe rain or a flock of birds) creating a false radar >image. These "explanations" seem lame and very reminiscent of >the 1952 Washington UFO radar images being explained away as >false targets created by a temperature inversion. We're supposed to believe that all those mistakes were made in the 1950's because radar technology was so primitive back then. Apparently, it hasn't improved very much in the past half century. We're lucky we've gone that long without a nuclear exchange with the Russians started by an errant rain cloud or flock of geese (or pelicans). Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: The Engineered Moon From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:38:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:07:52 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:57:37 -0400 >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >Although the results so far conflict with the >popular scientific theories of the interior of the >Moon and agree more with an Engineered Moon, Really? I haven't seen this. I will concede that there may be a possibility of voids in the Moon. Why not? But an engineered Moon??? No proof what so ever! >we do not have the sufficient resolution at this stage >to identify smaller regions of much lower mass >concentrations, including hollow cavities and >networks of tunnels. My request was for some sort of data or original quote of a scientist actually stating that the Moon rang like a bell for an hour or more. Surely such data was in an Apollo science report because it sounds impressive. >Although you are not a geologist/geophysicist, you can >still do the research to convince yourself rather than >have me do it for you. Surely you have a reference or two since you seem to know its engineered. There has to be some reputible data that even tangentially affirms your speculation. >Check out the many published articles about the >Moon in scientific journals such as "Icarus" > or even do a simple Google search, to convince >you that our mysterious Moon is full of >surprises and, despite what you believe, it is not at >all well understood. Most of the web sites about this topic are ludricrous. The method of most these sites is to take some "half" data which seems to show something odd, but subsequent analysis clarifies the analysis (and this is not shown on the website). >We need to go back to our nearest neighbour in >space soon. Only then will be able to say for sure >if our Moon is either a natural world or an >artifically engineered world. In my >opinion the facts we have so far can be easily and >best interpreted as the later case. The Apollo impactor tests did not provide data implying an engineered Moon. Even with all the landing sites recording seismic readings, hollow Moon data was not generated. People have stated that the rolling boulders are alien devices of some kind. Its easy to make claims based on intuition, but that work is easy. They just make a statement and leave it to the experts to disprove it. How do we disprove that the boulders are alien devices? We apparently HAVE to go there instead of just perform calculations and Earth bound tests to duplicate the phenomena. Same for the hollow Moon theory. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 29 Re: A Very High Satellite & Some Very Low From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:45:11 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Archived: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:09:32 -0500 Subject: Re: A Very High Satellite & Some Very Low >From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:40:28 -0700 >Subject: A Very High Satellite & Some Very Low Satellites? >SCIENCE FRONTIERS, No. 159, May-Jun 2005, p. 4 >A very high satellite? >A bright object moving slowly southeast to northwest was >captured on film at two Hawaiian observatories: Mauna Kea and >Haleakala. The object was visible for about 55 minutes at >Haleakala and 30 minutes at Mauna Kea. Artificial earth >satellites are usually visible for only a few dozen seconds. The >object could be a satellite at a very, very high altitude, but >NASA knows of none that fits the observations. >The mysterious object is shown in motion on a NASA website. >(Anonymous; WORLDNETDaily.com, February 8, 2005. Cr. P. Huyghe) I love reading Corliss' collections of anomalies just like the next person (maybe more so), but I have a little problem in that his collections are not dynamic enough to keep up with events. For this report in particular, the NASA website link is: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050208.html and asks folk to discuss the event at: "The Asterisk,The Night Sky Live Project Bulletin Board" Experts concluded the following: "I think it is fair to conclude that the object seen was the fuel dump of the AMC-16 rocket launch. Since the trajectory matches there is really no other explanation. This fuel dump was unexpectedly bright - one of the brightest yet recorded. I am therefore closing this topic. I would like to thank the APOD community for figuring out yet another astronomical mystery. " Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 'This Is The Century For Discovery Of ET Life' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:11:07 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:11:07 -0500 Subject: 'This Is The Century For Discovery Of ET Life' Source: Yahoo.Com http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050428/dcth035.html?.v=8 Press Release Source: National Geographic Channel Make Contact with Alien Creatures in National Geographic Channel Special 'Extraterrestrial' Thursday April 28, 12:40 pm ET Leading Scientists Envision Two Planets and their Unique Life Forms 'This is the Century for the Discovery of Extraterrestrial Life' WASHINGTON, April 28 /PRNewswire/ -- When moviegoers first visited other worlds in the 1977 science fiction phenomenon Star Wars, the eye-popping creatures were the cinematic realization of director George Lucas' imagination. Today, hot on the heels of the highly anticipated premiere of the sixth and final Star Wars movie, the National Geographic Channel (NGC) presents an array of new and bizarre planetary creatures -- but these are scientifically based visions of life as predicted by some of the world's leading scientists. "Extraterrestrial," premiering Monday, May 30 from 9:00-11:00 p.m. ET/PT (encore Thursday, June 2 from 9:00-11:00 p.m. ET/PT), is a groundbreaking new show that creates two worlds which scientists believe could exist in our own Milky Way galaxy, putting evolution into motion to investigate what life forms could survive there. Utilizing a combination of computer generated imaging (CGI) and 3-D effects, "Extraterrestrial" takes viewers on a dazzling galactic journey to come face-to- face with these fantastic alien life forms. "Extraterrestrial" reflects the contributions of leading scientists from NASA (the National Aeronautics and Space Administration), prestigious universities and organizations like the Ecospheres Project and the SETI Institute (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence). The experts anticipate discoveries to be made in the near future, when super-powerful new telescopes will begin watching the fringes of the Milky Way for signs of life. "The idea that there might be life out there has been around for a long time. What has changed is the realization that we have the technology now to answer the question," explained astrobiologist Dr. Michael Meyer, lead scientist of NASA's Mars Program. One of the world's most eminent evolutionary biologists, professor Simon Conway Morris of Cambridge University says, "This is the century for the discovery of extraterrestrial life ... It's an incredibly exciting time." Dr. Seth Shostak, a senior astronomer with the SETI Institute, believes it is a statistical certainty that there is life elsewhere in our galaxy: "It is a very real possibility that we will find evidence of extraterrestrial life by the year 2025." Using super computers powerful enough to make predictions about the Earth's climate, "Extraterrestrial's" scientists modeled the weather and climate for a planet that would orbit a red dwarf star, one of the most common stars in our galaxy. To their astonishment, the resulting profile indicated that the planet would be capable of supporting life. Based on the latest scientific results and deep space observations, two planets are identified to represent statistically likely celestial bodies and are subsequently named Aurelia and Blue Moon. "Extraterrestrial" then brings the science team's extraordinary visions of their respective inhabitants to the screen through sophisticated CGI modeling and animation. Aurelia Aurelia, which circles a red dwarf star, is representative of one of the most habitable types of planets. "We will almost certainly find something very similar to Aurelia. It's very much in the cards," says Conway Morris. A place of extremes, one side of Aurelia is permanently exposed to starlight, the other in eternal freezing darkness. There are no seasons, days or nights. Cloud and lightning storms cover the center of the light side, while a giant ice cap smothers much of the dark side. As viewers descend into the light side, violent storm clouds give way to a landscape of immense rivers and vast flood plains, several times bigger than the Amazon. Evolutionary biologists and biomechanists then conceived of life forms they believe could survive on Aurelia -- nicknaming them Stinger Fans, Gulphogs and Hysteria among others. Stinger Fans on Aurelia resemble tall plants with giant fans at the top, but they are flesh-and-blood animals that feed on the sun's energy. Large slithery tentacles constantly move them slowly across the mud, jostling for the best place to capture the sun's precious rays. The Gulphog is the largest predator in the Stinger Fan forest, standing nearly 15 feet high, massive as a buffalo, but with a giraffe-like neck and prominent central teeth. Although it looks ungainly, scientists' calculations show that the Gulphog can run as fast as a racehorse. Its long legs often help it outrun an indigenous predator, dubbed the deadly Hysteria. Hysteria look like tadpoles, peacefully eating tiny creatures that live in Aurelia's lagoons. But the Hysteria can undergo a terrifying transformation when they come together as one undulating creature, rising from the water to bore into land- based victims and releasing a flesh dissolving toxin. Aurelia's keystone species is the homely Mudpod. Resembling the awkward mating of an armadillo and a frog, Mudpods create the vast network of lagoons that make up the Stinger Fan forest. Sure-footed and equipped with a strong shovelhead, they are perpetual dam builders and the planet's chief architects. Blue Moon Blue Moon is a moon with a 240 hour day that orbits a planet in a twin star solar system. Its atmosphere is three times denser than Earth's and behaves like a suspended ocean, supporting life that floats and glides through the sky. It has carbon dioxide levels 30 times those of Earth's, which fuels rampant plant growth, and oxygen levels over four times higher which supercharges animal life with more than twice the muscular strength. Dr. Martin Heath, a geoscientist with the Ecospheres Project, says, "I think that one day we may indeed find something rather like the Blue Moon ... this is no longer the stuff of science fiction." On Blue Moon, clouds of tiny floating plants give a greenish haze to many parts of the sky. The ground is a vast forest of giant Pagoda Trees, with bowl-like depressions at the top of each plant that collect large ponds of water, making it possible for them to grow more than half a mile high. In order to support the weight of the water, the Pagodas are interconnected to form a superstructure which sustains an entire ecosystem down below. Fishing the ponds are giant Kites, a carnivorous life form that resembles a giant airplane wing, with tentacles it uses like fishing lines. Draping the halls of the forest below with a sticky veil of tentacles are the Death Traps, with the ability to dissolve creatures in a bath of acid. Giant Skywhales resemble Earth's whales, but with a noticeable difference -- they have wings that span nearly 33 feet. They gently glide on Blue Moon's powerful thermal drafts thousands of feet into the sky, feasting on clouds of floating plants, while remaining vigilant. If they fly too low, they provoke an attack by hornet-like Caped Stalkers, flying creatures the size of eagles, with three eyes for 360-degree vision, and deadly razor- sharp beaks that easily tear a Skywhale's flesh. Despite a cast of creatures that seems extreme, Dr. Shostak admits that reality could prove to be even more surprising than "Extraterrestrial" has predicted. "It could be that life can take forms we haven't even thought of yet." "Extraterrestrial" is produced by Big Wave Productions, Ltd. for National Geographic Channel. Series producer is Sarah Cunliffe; producer/director is Nick Stringer. For NGC, Colette Beaudry is supervising producer; Michael Cascio is executive producer, John Ford is executive vice president, programming. Based at National Geographic Society headquarters in Washington, D.C., the National Geographic Channel is a joint venture between National Geographic Television & Film (NGT&F) and Fox Cable Networks. National Geographic Channel debuted to an initial 10 million homes in January 2001, and has been one of the fastest growing networks in history. The Channel has carriage with all of the nation's major cable and satellite television providers, making it currently available to more than 53 million homes. For more information, please visit http://www.nationalgeographic.com/channel. Source: National Geographic Channel [Thanks to Stuart Miller of http://www.uforeview.net for the lead] Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Ghost Ships From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:18:44 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:18:44 -0500 Subject: Ghost Ships Source: The Guardian - London UK http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/farout/story/0,13028,1471603,00.html Ghost Ships Mark Pilkington Thursday April 28, 2005 The Guardian Radar-invisible Stealth aircraft and ships are a regular part of modern warfare. The next generations are said to blend into their environment using what's called "adaptive camouflage", making them invisible to the eye as well as radar. The most famous invisibility tale, however, is the Philadelphia Experiment, a classic story of military experimentation gone wrong. As part of Project Rainbow, while docked at Philadelphia Navy Yard in 1943, the cannon-class destroyer USS Eldridge (DE 173) was fitted with a number of powerful generators and something called a "time zero generator". When this was switched on, the Eldridge was engulfed in a greenish haze, then, with the imprint of its hull still visible in the water, the ship disappeared from view for 20 minutes. Following the experiment, the Eldridge's crew appeared highly excitable, even ravingly insane. Those onboard claimed to have seen another port, Newport News in Virginia, 600 miles from Philadelphia. Had the ship been teleported there during the experiment? A second experiment took place a few weeks later, this time at sea accompanied by SS Andrew Furuseth. Once again, the Eldridge vanished but, when it reappeared, many of its crew were horribly burned, others had "merged" with the structure of the ship. One vanished entirely. The Philadelphia Experiment was the subject of a best-selling book, and a 1984 film. Both proposed that the vanishing crew were somehow catapulted forwards in time. Men claiming to be those crew members still make the rounds of the conspiracy and UFO lecture circuits to this day. Of course, the story is hokum, created by eccentric UFO enthusiast Carl Allen in 1956. He claimed to have been onboard the Furuseth at the time of the second experiment. The Eldridge did exist, and so did Project Rainbow. But the ship never docked at Philadelphia and Rainbow was the second world war US codename for the Axis alliance. The Allied Navy did actually conduct electromagnetic experiments during the war, in which high voltage cables were wrapped around ships' hulls to degauss them, making them immune to magnetic mines. But they remained visible to both radar and the human eye. In 1999, the crew of the USS Eldridge had their first reunion. One joked: "The only true part is that the crew were a little crazy." [Thanks to Stuart Miller of http://www.uforeview.net for the lead] Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Strange Markings At Area 51 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:19:33 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:19:33 -0500 Subject: Strange Markings At Area 51 Source: Military.com http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001511.html April 26, 2005 More Googlesat Fun Defense Tech reader DS got himself a shout-out in Slate last week, after finding an airstrip out by Nevada's infamous Area 51 in Google's database of satellite pictures. So reader McZ decided to raise the stakes, and sent in to Defense Tech HQ a whole heap of "airfields and strange structures" he discovered in the Googlesat archives. [googlesat1.jpg] All these locations are generally in the same reservation as Groom Lake/Area 51," says JA, who, along with DS, was nice enough to take a gander at the pics for me. "Given that this was the location for a lot of the testing for the F117s and various other black craft, it makes sense to have local targets -- keeps you from having to fly over unsecure ground. But the lack of an identifiable golf course is highly suspicious for a supposed USAF facility." Anyway, here are a half-dozen of the locations, and what DS and JA had to say about 'em: latitude 37.363237, longitude -116.827273 DS: Appears to be the same as my airstrip...a target for aerial bombing. JA: Yep, an airstrip in the middle of nowhere, a target or training site of some other sort. 37.705925, -116.659646 JA: It has the feel of a target about it. But there's a lack of infrastructure around. It just occurred to me to wonder whether any of this apparent plethora of target runways might be set up to resemble certain 'airfields of interest' in other parts of the world. As landmarks they're pretty hard to hide. DS: Probably not a place you'd want to visit any time soon, since the USGS [U.S. Geological Survey] sketch says in big letters "RADIOACTIVE AREA." 37.586145, -116.915330 JA: Definitely the recipient of numerous bombings. DS: I think we're seeing here why our Air Force is so good at bombing the crap out of the enemy. 37.421686, -116.822768 DS: I'd have to say that this is definitely a bombing target. You can see the blast marks all around the strip. JA: Target, decoy, or simulation. Large circle appears to have been done over top of earlier scrapings, possibly done for different purpose. 37.485010, -116.228459 DS: It's a strange circular structure -- a possible target range? JA: It's a location directly north of the strip that got all this started would indicate a target or some other form of training site. There appear to be a couple of towers pointing NNW from the center of the thing. There's a couple of reasons to create a large bull's-eye. A seismographic test facility, perhaps? 37.628036, -116.848060 (pictured above) DS: Five circles inside of a triangle. It looks fake. But it shows up on other images and has road to it. It has to be an ultra secret homing symbol to assist E.T. with landing...Ok, just kidding...it's a bombing target. JA: Sand, Cat D9, Bored Airman, Time, some assembly required. It could possibly be another navigational target, but just how many of those do you need in a 10 square mile area? Yanking the former Soviet Union's intel guys' chains? Yanking the Roswell bunch's chain? [Thanks to Stuart Miller of http://www.uforeview.net for the lead] Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 'Intelligent Design' Threatens Definition of From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:21:59 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:21:59 -0500 Subject: 'Intelligent Design' Threatens Definition of Source: NationalGeographic.Com http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/04/0427_050427_intelligent_desi= gn.html April 27, 2005 Does "Intelligent Design" Threaten the Definition of Science? John Roach for National Geographic News Where did we come from? It's one of the oldest and most profound questions. Now "intelligent design" theory may change the very definition of science by allowing the supernatural into the lab. "Ever since the birth of science as we know it, a cardinal rule for theists [believers in the existence of a god or gods] and nontheists alike has been to limit scientific explanations to natural causes," said Ronald Numbers, a science historian at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Numbers studies the 140-year struggle between evolutionary biologists and anti-evolution movements. Evolutionary theory=97that acts of random mutation and natural selection over millions of years gave rise to us humans and all other life=97is the best answer scientists can give to the question of life's origins. But the answer is hardly satisfying to many Americans. A recent CBS News poll found that 55 percent of respondents did not believe in the theory of evolution at all=97and even most scientists agree that the theory leaves some questions about biological origins unanswered. Most career evolutionary biologists delight in the unexplained (for one thing, it means they'll have jobs for at least a while longer as they search for answers). More and more people, though, are gravitating towards an alternative explanation: intelligent design. Intelligent-design theory states that certain features of the natural world are of such complexity that the most plausible explanation is that they are products of an intelligent cause rather than random mutation and natural selection. Supporters of the theory say the nature of the intelligent cause is outside the scope of the theory. "It matches what a lot of people see. It matches peoples' intuitions about biology," said Michael Behe, a biochemist at Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Behe is a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture, a Seattle, Washington-based organization that rallies much of the intellectual muscle behind the intelligent-design movement. The movement's success comes from the way it "appeals to peoples' sense of unease about science and technology," said Kenneth Miller, a biologist at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island. Miller is a defender of evolution who has taken a seat against advocates of intelligent design in the struggle over how evolution should be taught in U.S. public schools. The struggle's next round will play out over a six-day hearing next month in Topeka, Kansas, hosted by the state board of education. Miller, like most scientists and science organizations, including the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), will not participate. In a media statement issued April 12, Alan Leshner, chief executive of the Washington, D.C.-based AAAS, said the association is concerned that rather than contributing to science education, the hearing "will most likely serve to confuse the public about the nature of scientific enterprise." Teach the Controversy John West is the associate director of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture and an advocate of the institute's "teach the controversy" approach to teaching evolution in U.S. public schools. The approach steers clear of teaching intelligent-design theory in the schools (the Discovery Institute believes the theory is too new to be required). Instead, "teach the controversy" promotes teaching "all the evidence relating to evolutionary theory," West said. Included in the evidence are what the Discovery Institute views as legitimate criticisms of evolutionary theory, such as the limits of natural selection and random mutation in explaining the explosion of new body plans during the Cambrian period (about 570 million years ago). "If high school or college students are capable of understanding evidence for evolution, certainly they could understand scientific criticisms of key parts of the theory, particularly the limit to the creative power of selection and random mutation," West said. Eugenie Scott is director of the Oakland, California-based National Center for Science Education, which defends the teaching of evolution in schools. She said the problem with the "teach the controversy" approach to teaching evolution is "there's no controversy." According to Scott, anybody who surveys the peer-reviewed scientific literature will uncover articles documenting disagreements over the pattern and process of evolution, "but they won't find arguments over whether living things have common ancestors," she said. Behe, the Lehigh University biochemist, said, "Everybody agrees Darwinian theory does explain some things. The question is, is it a good explanation for everything? That is where people start to disagree." Numbers, the University of Wisconsin-Madison science historian, said that, on the face of it, teaching the strengths and weaknesses of evolution looks innocuous and in fact is what science teachers should try to do when discussing any theory. "I'd be in favor of it if I didn't realize this as a rhetorical ploy to get teachers to undermine evolution," he said. According to Scott, any scientific views presented by the intelligent-design community have the same chance as any other scientific idea of landing in the classroom, but they first must be accepted as viable by the scientific community. High school teachers, she said, are limited to teaching the consensus view of their subjects. "What you'll find is ID [intelligent design] has not gone anywhere in the science community," she said. "The scientists have looked at ID and said, Hmmm, not ready for prime time." Stifling Education? According to Behe, the biochemist, recognizing the signature of the intelligent agent is like recognizing that the faces of the U.S. presidents carved into South Dakota's Mount Rushmore is the work of humans, not chaotic, random events. Advocates of intelligent design say certain things in nature (such as the complex molecular "machines" found in a cell) cannot be explained by evolution. Such features have the earmark of an intelligent agent, ID advicates say. "The justification for design is that these systems seem to have features we associate with designed systems," Behe said. "They have intricate parts that interact with each other." Until these complex components of nature are proven to result from evolution or some other process, Behe said, scientists ought to allow the plausibility that they are the work of an intelligent agent. "Many people in academia, in the sciences, take it as a principle that they should not resort to an explanation that has a strong philosophical, theological ramification," he said. "But that is not so in the case of the general public." According to Miller, the Brown University biologist, academia is opposed to explanations that rely on God as a causal agent because they go against the very definition of science: seeking a natural explanation for natural events and phenomenon. The intelligent-design movement, Miller said, seeks to allow a non-natural explanation into science. "By altering the definition of science, they seek a playing field where the supernatural can have scientific meaning." Numbers, the science historian, said doing so would be disastrous for science education. "The heart of scientific enterprise is to try to solve these problems naturally, not just say, OK, this is intelligently designed, so we're giving up." [Thanks to Stuart Miller of http://www.uforeview.net for the lead] Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Lowell Massachusetts Sightings History From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:22:42 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:22:42 -0500 Subject: Lowell Massachusetts Sightings History Source: The Lowell Sun - Lowell, Massachusetts http://lowellsun.com/local/ci_2689351 Blinking And shining Matt Murphy - The Lowell Sun Blinking and shining - unexplained area UFO sightings, Lowell, Oct. 26, 1846 A big, luminous flying disc reportedly dropped a lump of 'fetid- smelling jelly'; over Lowell. The mass was allegedly retrieved and found to weigh 442 pounds and measure 4 feet in diameter. Bedford, May 4, 1960 Charles Oates, chief technician at the Charles Hayden Planetarium, and his wife observed two luminous lines in the sky. The couple then saw a bright-red, spherical UFO hovering in the eastern sky. As they watched for five minutes, the UFO moved east, pulsating white and red, but disappeared before the couple could summon other planetarium staff to observe the phenomenon. North Wilmington, Sept. 17, 1961 At 7:15 p.m., a teacher observed a bright white sphere, the size of a grapefruit, moving rapidly in an easterly direction. Burlington, May 15, 1962 A file from the U.S. Air Force Project Blue Book contains two photos of a disc-shaped object in the sky. Project Blue Book was the title given to an Air Force program from 1947 to 1969 that investigated UFO sightings. The Air Force investigated 12,618 sightings, and 701 remain unidentified. Chelmsford, Oct. 17, 1966 At 9:05 p.m., two witnesses reported a UFO flying directly overhead with bright, red lights and a string of dim, bluish lights. No structure was seen but the lights moved in a pattern suggesting they were attached to an unseen object. Wilmington, June 28, 2004 A driver on Route 38 observed 10 small, oval shapes in a 1-8-1 formation flying just below sparse clouds. The shiny, golden shapes flew west to east, changing formation in a circular pattern, before disappearing a minute later. [Thanks to Stuart Miller of http://www.uforeview.net for the lead] Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Several Witnesses To Cyprus UFO From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:24:25 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:24:25 -0500 Subject: Several Witnesses To Cyprus UFO Source: The Cyprus Mail - Nicosia, Cyprus http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=3D19663&cat_id=3D1 Friday, April 29, 2005 Are they here? By Jean Christou Wednesday's 'UFO sighting' reopens the case A British resident in Cyprus yesterday reported seeing a UFO as he traveled along the Nicosia-Larnaca highway on Wednesday night. The man, who did not wish to be identified, said the UFO had been witnessed by several other motorists who had all slowed down their vehicles to watch the spectacle at around 8.45pm. "At first I thought it was a helicopter. It was in front of me and as soon as saw it I started slowing down and so did the people in front of me and then it speeded up at an incredible speed, hundreds of miles an hour in seconds and literally disappeared in front of our eyes," the man said. He said the sighting happened at around 8.45pm. He said al the cars in front of him had slowed down trying to digest what they had seen. "It was amazing. I don't know what it was but it was bizarre. It was up in the sky. It looked like the kind of height of a low- flying plane or a helicopter. That's why I didn't immediately think it was odd and then as it started to move and speed up I thought, 'This is weird'. It was bright white sphere of light hovering slowly," The man said he checked online yesterday morning and found that UFO sightings were not all that uncommon in Cyprus. "I had heard about UFOs. I'm not a sceptic but I think you can't really comment unless you have had an experience and for me when I can't have a sane explanation for what I see=85 I can't think of anything else it could be. It was not the kind of thing you could miss. It was incredible," he added. Police said yesterday no one had reported any UFO sighting, as did the Larnaca Airport Control Tower. "The only thing written in the log book for that time last night is 'We need new chairs for the control tower'," said one Civil Aviation official. The official said however that the radar does regularly register what seem to be aircraft but which disappear after three revolutions of the radar. "We call them Angels," said the official adding that they generally put these 'phantoms' down to weather interference. "Of course we are angels here ourselves," he said. Ioannis Fakas from the Fakas Institute of Astronomy said nothing had been reported to him either. In fact he said he had been called to Limassol to look at a reported crop circle in a field outside the town. He decided however that the crop circle, which was around 150 metres wide, was probably man-made. Crop circles, which are said to be mathematically precise designs imprinted into a field of crops without actually damaging or killing the plants, are often associated with aliens. Fakas said he believes people see UFO's but does not believe they are of alien origin. As an astronomer he said he does think it's logical that life must exist elsewhere in the universe, but does not believe they visit earth. He said that research has shown that 93 per cent of all UFO sightings are explainable. "I don't believe men from other worlds would come all the way here and then try to hide from us," he said. Whatever they are, UFOs have been spotted over Cyprus on many occasions in the past. In March 2002 a Swiss playwright who had just retired to Paphos, said he spotted a silver, saucer-shaped object 'emerging from the clouds' as he walked along the beach. The UFO apparently hovered before 'floating down' and disappearing behind some rocks." Linda Leblanc said she and John Knowles, her partner at the Paphos-based Pyschognosia, which looks into paranormal incidents, said they had seen UFOs on several occasions over Coral Bay. She said Wednesday's sighting by the British resident was interesting as there appear to have been other witnesses. "We keep a roving eye on things and of course we are always looking ourselves," she said. "There is plenty of good evidence to support UFOs. There is no doubt in our minds that something is going on so we're not surprised to hear about this. We don't really know what they are but there have been some links to the military. You see a lot of sighting around bases. It could be testing new technology." Knowles said it was useful for people to report such incidents. "What is necessary is to have multiple witnesses and they should record the exact details and have everyone sign it. I'd be happy to pass it on to Mutual UFO Network," he said. "There is too much of a tendency on the part of the establishment to sneer and disdainfully dismiss everything. It always helps to have more and more evidence." Knowles confirmed that sightings are fairly common in Cyprus. "I've had a couple of sightings myself," he said. Copyright Cyprus Mail 2005 Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Alien Abduction Accounts Actually Allowable From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <post.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:25:02 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:25:02 -0500 Subject: Alien Abduction Accounts Actually Allowable Source: The Triangle - The Student Newspaper at Drexal University http://www.thetriangle.org/news/2005/04/29/SciTech/Alien.Abduction.Accounts.Actu ally.Allowable-944348.shtml Friday, April 29, 2005 Alien Abduction Accounts Actually Allowable By Aaron Sakulich At heart, I like to write about creepy stories. Stories that are good to scare children with, but I like to give them with a caveat that I was never told: Stories are, sometimes, just stories. Don't believe everything you hear. Therefore, in an effort to get back to my roots as a scary storyteller, allow me to introduce to you the weirdest thing I've ever heard: the story of the Pascagoula Creatures. In 1973 in Pascagoula, Mississippi two shipyard workers, Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker, had an experience that has never been equaled among UFO folklore. They were sitting on a dock fishing when they looked behind them and saw a giant egg-shaped object hovering about 40 feet away. The object looked to be about 10 feet tall and had blue lights "like a police car." As they sat there, understandably surprised, a door opened out of the bottom of the thing and three forms floated out. They were about five feet tall, had neckless, bullet-shaped heads, slits for mouths and carrot-shaped appendages sticking out from where their noses and ears should have been. They also had rounded feet, hands that ended in pincers or claws, and no eyes. Hickson said that the skin of the creatures was gray and wrinkly, like an elephant, and that their hands were shaped "like mittens." The beings grabbed the two fishermen, hauled them into the ship, and examined them with some sort of "electronic eye" that floated in midair. The interior of the ship was incredibly bright: Light seemed to come from the floors, the walls, the ceiling, everywhere. After a while (he couldn't tell how long) Hickson was released, and he found Parker standing near the water in a trance. He snapped out of it, and the two men called the local air force base, which told them to call the sheriff. The sheriff came and picked them up and, despite being told not to publicize the case, word still leaked out. Calvin and Parker have, unlike two other famous abductees, Betty and Barney Hill, never changed their stories. They also seem to be genuine in their conviction that something happened to them that night. Many books and websites say that they have refused any opportunity to make money from their experience, neglecting to mention that Hickson has written a book, appeared on local public access television shows, and even goes to local schools to tell children his story (hardly activities for which one would rake in the cash, but still.) Hickson and Parker were two of the first famous abductees, and, depending on how one looks at it, their tale either coincided with the beginning of the 1973 UFO "flap" (widespread sightings) or the publicity of their case actually instigated the 1973 flap. Unlike Betty and Barney Hill, the other two most famous abductees of whom I wrote two weeks ago ("UFO couple uses story to spark alien abduction fear", April 15, The Triangle, p. 21), their character seems above reproach. They've never contradicted themselves, changed their stories, or made outrages claims. So I'm going to say right now that I cannot come to a conclusion about what happened to them that night based just on what they've said and done since then. It would be easier if one of them had slipped up and said something that could be seen as evidence the incident was a hoax, but because that didn't happen I'll just content myself to mention what it is that makes me suspicious that something is amiss here. First and foremost, look at the creatures that are said to have done the abducting. They're quite possibly the weirdest creatures ever in UFO folklore. They're also entirely unique: I don't believe that anything similar has ever been reported, other than in this case. Hickson said that their stilted movements gave him the impression that they were robots. This means that some shadowy group went through the trouble of building a pair of sophisticated carrot-faced elephant robot monsters, and only deployed them once. With the report of seeing crazy gray nightmare monsters, they very uniqueness of the antagonists makes one suspect that they made it up, since no one else has reported such creatures; however, the uniqueness of the monsters also makes it clear that they did not simply lift the encounter wholesale from TV shows or comic books. It's sort of a weird paradox, I suppose: The less similar an abduction is to other abductions, it becomes simultaneously less and more likely that it actually happened. Then, take this quote, said by Hickson: "There's always the threat that we are going to blow the world all to pieces, I'd like to think they are watching out for us, to see that we don't." Perhaps it's just the philosophic musings of an older man; on the other hand, it echoes the actions of the "contactees" of the 1950s and early 1960s, who claimed to have been chosen by aliens to convey some message of world peace. The keystone of the tales spread by contactees in the '50s and '60s almost always revolved around how angry aliens were with us for inventing the atom bomb; considering that the Cold War was in full swing, this was hardly a surprising mirror image of the fears of society at large. The contactees more or less died out during the '60s to be replaced by the "abductees," folks claiming that their contact with aliens was substantially less than pleasant. Is that quote above a smoking gun? Hardly. Is it enough to make me a little more suspicious than I was before I read it? Definitely. Another thing that makes me suspicious is Parker's role in all of this. He waited a long time before he began speaking about what happened to him that night. According to Hickson, he passed out when the robot monsters touched him, and when Hickson found him later, he was in a trance. Although again, this is hardly a smoking gun, it's a relatively common theme in UFO abductions of more than one person: One person sees everything in its entirety while the other person either passes out or ends up in a trance. The second person only later remembers the event, after (to be blunt) the first person takes the time to convince him it happened. I'm not saying that's what happened in this case. According to everything I've read, the two men were both freaking out about what happened that very night. However, no source that I've been able to find is specific enough to say whether Parker told any part of the story early on. It's possible Hickson imagined it all and told everyone, and Parker was just freaking out because Hickson was freaking out. Again, I don't know either way what happened, but I sure am suspicious. After I wrote my article on Betty and Barney Hill, a lot of people e-mailed me and were aghast that I would dare to attack the reputation of two recently deceased individuals. I suppose that's because they couldn't find fault with my arguments. I'd just like to take this opportunity to say that I am not trying to speak ill of Hickson and Parker, or trying to defame them or slander them. Something weird happened, and I don't think they'd mind people discussing it and looking at it from a critical angle. So if you're going to send me furious e-mails, try to come up with something a little better than "You're trying to defame these people" and picking on minor grammatical errors. Be seeing you. Aaron Sakulich is a senior majoring in materials science and engineering. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 David Rudiak? From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:21:08 +0100 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:25:43 -0500 Subject: David Rudiak? Could Dave Rudiak please contact me off-list please as my messages to him are being returned. Many thanks, Philip Mantle philip.nul Coming soon, the new book by Paul Stonehill & Philip Mantle: UFO-USSR, an in-depth look at UFO's behind the iron curtain. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:26:29 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:06:56 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon <snip> >However, I searched on other papers by this gentleman and found >a later paper called The Apollo lunar surface water vapor event >revisited, from 1991. His NEW conclusion is as follows... >It is concluded that during most of the event the observed >water vapor ions were accelerated by the negative lunar surface >electric potential and, secondly, that this event was probably >the result of mission associated water vapor, either from the LM >ascent and descent stage rockets or from residual water in the >descent stage tanks. >So much for the myth of the March 7, 1971 event! Excellent bloodhound work, James! I have also wondered about the presence of water on the moon. Since water seems more and more to be a common compound in our solar system, and since the moon by most accounts came from one of our neighbors if not the earth itself, it might be logical to assume that what became the moon was quite saturated with water...a big mudball slung into orbit. Following this line of thinking, over time, with no atmosphere, the water would begin to outgas, sublimate, and evaporate into the ether. If this continued, eventually the moon would be much more like a hard sponge, or like a chocolate covered malt ball...foamy but hard on the inside, and muddy or powdery and pulverised on the outside, and coated with fragments of meteors and other debris. This might explain the apparent discrepancy between the measured mass of the moon based on its size versus the measured mass of the moon based on gravitational behavior. Its density may have slowly fallen with the loss of the water. There may be surface water (ice) left in low dark areas, or beneath the surface in such areas. But the vast majority might be gone, save for the occasional venting, and leaving a labyrinth of voids behind. This would possibly account for the bell-ringing quality, as the interior would serve as a sound insulator or muffler, leaving the sound waves extant to travel around the surface. This could also provide the basis for lunar habitation, if these outgassing vents lead to networks of tunnels throughout the lunar interior. Constructed shelter would be unnecessary if caverns and tunnels already exist. It might be possible to map the moon (or the data may already exist) for areas of lower surface density where tunnel openings might lurk just beneath the surface dust and detritus. This is all rank speculation, but could it be that the initial descriptions of the moon involving swiss cheese may have been closer to the mark after all? Best, Kyle Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 00:52:35 -0700 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:27:02 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:06:56 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Sent: Apr 19, 2005 7:34 PM >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: The Engineered Moon >>Source: The Epoch Times >>http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-4-16/27911.html >>http://www.geocities.com/jilaens/moon.htm >The above reference had the following statement >"4. On March 7, 1971, lunar instruments placed by the >astronauts recorded a vapor cloud of water passing across the >surface of the moon. The cloud lasted 14 hours and covered an >area of about 100 square miles." >This implication is that some weird thing was happening and >that the Moon is more than we think. >To be honest, I had little problem with this Moon water idea >but I decided anyway to examine the original report from 1973 by >J.W. Freeman. He speculated then that the only source could be >the Moon (an internal water source). He also relates how this >could be the cause of Lunar Transient Phenomena. >However, I searched on other papers by this gentleman and found >a later paper called "The Apollo lunar surface water vapor event >revisited", from 1991. His NEW conclusion is as follows... >"It is concluded that during most of the event the observed >water vapor ions were accelerated by the negative lunar surface >electric potential and, secondly, that this event was probably >the result of mission associated water vapor, either from the LM >ascent and descent stage rockets or from residual water in the >descent stage tanks." >So much for the myth of the March 7, 1971 event! Hi James: I was going to suggest the moon was struck by a small piece of cometary debris - ice mainly - which vaporized, but Freeman's new conclusions sound more likely. Best - Larry Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:16:55 +0000 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:27:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together >From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:14:54 -0700 >Subject: Re: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:51:35 -0400 >>Subject: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together >>Wow! >>Hard to know what else to say. >>I just read Exempt from Disclosure (Collins and Doty) and then >>Project Beta (Bishop). >>My head is swimming. Definitely a brain-scambling event! What to >>believe? Whom to believe? >What does the track record (of Richard Doty in particular) >suggest? Disinformation, perhaps? >>Are these guys crazy, or is they actually putting a hole in the >>"iron (cover-up) curtain?" >Or, are they creating a fascinating tale, designed to entertain >(and distract) ufologists (who maybe needed stronger and >stronger dosages of "information" as time goes by)? Mike, I'm with you on this. The track records of several of these people do not inspire much confidence in their honesty and casts serious doubt on their purpose. Unless they provide well- documented, unimpeachanle evidence (not unverifiable tall tales) they are not to be believed or trusted. Period. - Dick Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:23:00 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:28:14 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:38:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:57:37 -0400 >>Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon <snip> James, Nick, and Eleanor White: An interesting book that includes the moon anomalies you're discussing (and other astronomical things) is "Mysterious Universe: A Handbook of Astronomical Anomalies" by the credentialed William R. Corliss [1979] Rich Reynolds Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:28:53 -1000 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:28:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:37:10 EDT >Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:07:21 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:55:40 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches >>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 04:06:56 -1000 >>>>Subject: Re: Science & Faith Based Approaches <snip> >This presupposes that the testimonial evidence from the >Disclosure Project and the documentary evidence in the MJ-12 >documents can be trusted. I'm suggesting that neither source can >be trusted and therefore any reliance on them as a basis to >argue for a hard cover up is flawed in the beginning. I don't think it's helpful to use the concept of 'trust' in order to assess different sources of evidence, especially when it comes to whistleblowers. What we have are different sources of evidence which we analyse and rank according to a number of criteria, eg., whistleblowers, majestic documents, contactees, witnesses, etc. Some sources will receive a higher ranking than others and therefore higher degree of consideration. That means there's a need to be flexible. Using an either-or approch unnecessarily simplifies the process since it tries to reduce all sources into two categories that which we 'trust and that which we 'don't trust'. That's a methodological error and based on the mistaken emphasis on 'hard evidence'. >>This brings me to your allegations concerning the three >>whistleblowers whose military credentials in my view lend >>plausibility to their claims: Phillip Corso, Robert Dean and >>Clifford Stone. <snip> >I was very interested in those claims, talked to Dean and Stone, >and even received a letter from Corso's doctor and had >conversations with Robert Brines, his co-author. I looked for >corroboration of their tales but found them wanting. It is >interesting that their lack of proof for their claims is >considered proof by others. Their records have been altered, >their documentation has been stolen, and they have been >intimidated by this vast conspiracy to silence them. >Interestingly they suggest the government would stop at nothing >to silence them, and Stone even talks about being taken from his >home with weapons pointed at him, but he's still alive to make >his charges" all with no evidence that any of this happen. I can see your point and agree that this is a major problem for UFO/exopolitical researchers. When you have well credentialled individuals coming forth with extraordinary claims with no hard evidence to back them up, then one can say there's no proof. Furthermore, when researchers encounter claims that the 'proof' has been removed, of intimidation of whistleblowers, of corroborating witness harassment, etc., having occurred, then this presents testimonial evidence that a 'hard cover' up is underway. What you have provided is an example of the kind of testimonial evidence that whistleblowers such as Stone give of being physically threatened for revealing information. You ask, where's the physical evidence or proof that Stone was harasssed, and physical evidence removed? I think it should be clear that if such a process is occuring, as Stone and other whistleblowers suggest, such hard evidence will hard to find. Yet we have the whistleblower's testimony, their credibilty in terms of service records and responsible positions, and other information they may provide substantiating both their claims about ETs, and their claims of being harassed. I have made a case that a 'hard cover up' is an underlying premise that needs to be considered by the UFO researcher. This is the most logical conclusion of the overwhelming evidence that the government has initiated a cover up, and secretly institutionalised a process for dealing with UFO/ET affairs. I think if you use a polititical science methodology similar to the social contract theory advocated by John Rawls in a Theory of Justice, you will find that the end result of a rational decision making process for a set of rational decision makers is a secretly institutionalised process for managing ET/UFO affairs since the underlying premise is that the UFO/ET issues presents the most dire national security threat confronting the US and other countries. That's the most logical outcome of a purely rational process which supports my contention that an a 'hard cover up' exists. That means that when whistleblowers such as Stone discuss aspects of the 'hard cover up', physical threats, etc., then these are consistent with the premise that a 'hard cover up' is a logical policy response to the ET/UFO presence. This doesn't prove their claims, but it enables us to seriously consider them and use them in conducting an exopolitical analysis, despite the absence of proof. <snip> >>Corso begins his book, The Day After Roswell, by clearly stating >>that he was a Lt-Colonel who headed up the Foreign Technology >>Desk for a two year period in the 1960s. I don't have access to >>his military records so I can't confirm or deny what happened >>upon his retirement and the details of his promotion. <snip> >Yes, but he was asked why he was identified as a colonel on the >cover and rather than saying that his publisher made an error, >he said that he had been promoted to colonel in the reserve on >his retirement. Again, there is no evidence this is true. In his >proposal for his book he identifies himself as a colonel and not >a lieutenant colonel. >And even worse, the first line of his book suggests he was the >chief of the Foreign Technology Division for two years when his >record shows that it was for only 90 days. I certainly hope you >aren't going to suggest that someone altered the record by >reducing his time with the Foreign Technology Division. >In his proposal, he included some sample chapters including >something he called a "Precede" in which he writes about his UFO >experiences, and then signs it, "P.J. Corso, Colonel, USA, Ret." >Again, he just wasn't a colonel though he represented himself as >such. I think his long military service record is the basis of his credibility, and he rightly claims he was a Lt-Col when he became chief of the Foreign Technology Division. The absence of evidence of his promotion from Lt-Col to Col upon retirement is something that I consider to be a red herring designed to shift attention from the thrust of his claims concerning his role in the dissemination of ET technology. Absense of evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen. There is also the possibility that his service record was purposely altered to create some inconsistencies - but of course in your ideal world of UFO scientific research using empirical methods, such Machiavellian methods don't happen. As for the issue of him serving for 90 days rather than 2 years suggested in the book, I again consider that to be a red herring. Again, there is the possibility that his record was altered to create inconsistencies. <snip> >>As far as I'm aware, Corso never claimed to be a member of MJ- >>12, he just referred to its existence and composition. >In the proposal for his book he writes, "recounts the continuing >reports of UFO activity that passed through Eisenhower's White >House, when the author was on assignment there, to the staff of >MJ-12." That sounds like a fairly blatant claim that Corso was a >member of MJ-12" a claim that did not make it into the final >version of his book. You have misread what the passage suggests. Corso informed us that he served on the staff of MJ-12 when he was at the White House. I think that MJ-12, is similar to a Congressional Committee, e.g., the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, that has staffers appointed to serve the Commitee. If one is on assignment to the staff of a Senate Committee, for example, then that doesn't make one a Senator, one is just a staff member. >>Corso discussed the circumstances surrounding his use of Strom >>Thurman foreword in an interview with Michael Lindeman - see: >>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/roswell018.html >>Corso claims he told Thurman of the UFOs he discussed in his >>book and that Thurman nevertheless agreed to write the foreword >>for the Day After Roswell and understood it was about UFOs. It's >>likely that during his employment service for the former Senator >>he discretely divulged some of the projects he worked on despite >>his alleged vow to Lt Gen Trudeau to not go public. Thurman may >>have written the foreward as a favor to a former close advisor >>but once his staffers discovered what was in Corso's book, they >>quickly rescinded permission for the foreword to be used. >Yet in his proposal letter he said that Thurmond had written a >glowing introduction to his book "I Walked with Giants: My >Career in Military Intelligence." That introduction was then >used for his Roswell book" before Thurmond and his aides >insisted that it be removed. Switching the story and the >introductions around does not speak well of Corso. As I said earlier, Corso spoke to Thurman about UFOs and informed him that was the subject of his new book. Just because Thurman's aides persuaded Thurman to withdraw the preface, doesn't mean Corso was being disingenous here. >>As for the veracity of the photos in Corso's books, I don't know >>where you got your information that they are "well known fakes". >>There may be considerible controversy about them, but that >>doesn't make them fakes. I don't know about Kaufman and the >>incident you are referring to. As for the alleged convoy through >>Ft Riley, the 'friend' was in fact the sergeant on guard duty >>and had peered into the contents of the boxes he was guarding. >>The Sergeant had some time invited Corso to join a bowling team >>so that was the basis of their relationship. Corso was a Major >>at the time and the Sergeant an NCO, so it's a bit of a stretch >>to say he was Corso's friend. >The picture in his book, labeled, "Lt. Col. Corso was never able >to confirm the veracity of the following purported UFO >surveillance photos, which were in Army Intelligence files as >support material for the R&D project to harvest Roswell Alien >technology for military purposes." The picture under that >caption is of a domed disk flying over some hills. Ed Ruppelt >identified it as a 1935 Ford hubcap. Look magazine, in 1966, >identified it as a hoax and provided the name of the >photographer who admitted it was a hoax. Guy B. Marquand, Jr., >said that he was sorry to disillusion people and that "I was 21 >years old at the time and just having fun." I recall being told a story by Wendelle Stevens about George Adamski responding to Coral Lorenson's abrasive question 'how did you do it? (fake his flying saucer photos'). Adamski said that he picked up a hub cap and threw it into the air, and then took some pictures. Lorenson said 'thanks' and then proceeded to condemn Adamski as a fraud. He was pulling her leg but she took him seriously. Corso would undoubtedly have known about the 1966 Look article and Ruppelt's asssessment of the photo, but still went ahead to include it in his book. Personally, I'd say if Corso was suggesting it was real despite the Look article and Ruppelt's assessment, I'd be inclined to accept Corso's judgement over someone who alleges to be the photographer recanting his testimony. It seems you have more faith in a self- confessed liar "having fun" than the judgement of a former Lt Col in the US Army. >It was Kaufmann and Corso on Coast-to-Coast talking about their >experiences with these highly classified projects, spilling >their guts for the world. What struck me was that Corso never >disagreed with Kaufmann in a conflict of points, but always >bowed to him because Kaufmann claimed to have been on the >original retrieval. Kaufmann has been found to be a fraud, >inventing his tale. Seems to me that Corso would have known >that, had he been who he claimed to be. I don't know enough about Kaufmann to respond about his legitimacy as a researcher. I don't see why you would assume that if Kaufman were a fraud, Corso should have known about it. Corso left military service in 1963 and apparently ceased to have a further role in the world of UFOs, crash retrievals. As far as I can tell, Corso claims to have played a role in disseminating ET technology, he never claimed to possess omniscience about UFO researchers and witnesses. >I read Corso's claim about his friend and understood that Corso >was a major and the friend a sergeant who had invited Corso to >bowl with his team. However, it's also a stretch to understand >how a convoy leaving Roswell would pass close to Ft. Riley on >its way to Wright Field in Ohio, or how an NCO, a sergeant of >the guard, would be out among the classified boxes or why he >would be digging through them. This is a serious breach of >security, not to mention the fact that the boxes should have >been in a locked area with guards posted outside it, not inside, >going through the material. I think that this was the first time that an EBE had been shipped by the US Army/Air Force. Their security procedures were probably lax to begin with, but later amended to the standards you suggest. >I suppose it will do no good to point out that the FBI (another >of those hated government institutions that lie about everyone) >noted, about Corso, "He has been a thorn in our side because of >self-initiated rumors, idle gossip and downright lies he has >spread to more or less perpetuate his own reputation as an >intelligence expert." I agree, it doesn't help your case to reference the FBI as a truthful source for the credibility of Corso. >Corso claimed in a sworn statement that one of his Army >assignments had been to the National Security Council during the >Eisenhower Administration and that he attended NSC meetings. >Stan Friedman checked with the Eisenhower Library and was told >that such claims were false. Of course, this is just another >government agency changing the records. It's very possible that the Eisenhower Library lacked records to substantiate Corso's claims. This absence could be explained in a number of ways, incomplete records, Stan not having access to the right files, altered records, etc. This doesn't prove that Corso's claims were false, they just couldn't be substantiated. I get the sense you are fishing for ways to discredit Corso, and want to avoid looking at possibilities that migh explain some of the discrepancies in his testimony. Corso's military credentials are impressive, he worked as the head of the Army's Foreign Technology Department, worked as a Congressional Aid to Senator Thurman, and has made extraordinary claims about ET technology. I don't see why analysing the (exo)political implications of Corso's testimony is so strongly resisted by members of the forum who focus on whatever minor inconsistency they can find in Corso's military records or statement. It seems you advocate focusing on the ABC's of UFO research, and don't want to reach the X,Y,Z, where exopolitical analysis begins. <snip> >>If Stone was recruited to work as a specialist for the retrieval >>of crashed disks as he claims, that wouldn't appear on his army >>record since it would have been a compartmentalised black >>project. As for altering records for those working in such >>projects, I would argue that is standard security procedure for >>compartmentalised black projects. The Project Manager for each >>project would be responsible for security and could easily make >>it mandatory for a servicemen's record not to include anything >>that would hint of the kind of specialized training Stone claims >>to have received. It would make sense to have Stone's service >>record include him training as a typist, when he in fact was >>being trained for the retreival of ETVs. > >But then, most of the training, even when dealing with sensitive >subjects, is noted. Assignments might be carefully noted to >protect the sensitivity of them, but there are always some hints >about them. No such hints in Stone's record. His assignments and >training are all consistent with a clerk or admin specialist. Stone claimed he was recruited for crash retrievals due to his telepathic abilities that were recognized while he was still relatively young. That means that Stone's military record would have provided references to cover assignments such as 'clerk' for his real work and the specialized training he required. I seriously doubt that the kind of specialized training one received for crash retrievals would be accurately reflected in one's service record. So Stone's military record does little more than confirm that he served for 22 years or so, and reached certain class of Seargent. <snip> >Since you accuse me of being a courtroom attorney, let me point >out that this goes to the credibility of the witness. If his >wartime experiences are fabricated, then we must look carefully >at his other claims. How many of those are also exaggerated? >These are not red herrings, but issues that are important to the >case and it is the sort of thing that the media and the public >will look at carefully. >And, I will note that you have offered nothing to counter these >allegations. You only suggest that these are red herrings. I think your style is similar to a court room attorney who wants to shift from an examination of substantive issues to witness credibility. You point out some minor inconsistencies which lead to your evaluation that the witness is not reliable, and that their testimony should be discarded. That's a time honored legal strategy that works well enough in a judicial system that operates on transparency and legitimate legal processes, but is seriously inadequate for whistleblower testimonies in a national security environment where the bulk of hard evidence is classified, and where there is ample reason to believe a 'hard cover up' is underway. I have seen no evidence that you are willing to explore the implications of the whistleblower testimonies offered by Corso since you offer as the threshold for such consideration satisfaction of minor inconsistencies that I and likely many others view to be red herrings. >>>The first time I met Stone in his home in Roswell, he tried to >>>convince us of his importance by going out to his car to >>>retrieve some "Top Secret" documents. He carried them through >>>the living room so that we could see the cover sheets on them. >>>If he had left top secret material in his car, then he was going >>>to jail. He also pointed to the sticker on his car noting that >>>it was blue, suggesting to us that he was actually an officer. >>>What he didn't know is that I knew that system had been changed >>>so that all the stickers were blue and it was the small strip >>>under it that denoted the rank. Stone's was the proper color for >>>an NCO. I could go on listing Stone's claim to have been at the >>>Kecksburg UFO crash recovery to his viewing (through a hole in >>>the curtains) of the largely discredited alien autopsy film but >>>what is the point? >>Again, I don't see any major issue here. Just some >>inconsistencies you identify that you blow up as hard evidence >>that he is fabricating his testimony and not to be trusted. >An inconsistency that would be of little importance is Stone's >claim that he spent four years in Vietnam when his record shows >only three and a half. He has five overseas bars, one awarded for >each six months in a combat zone which adds up to two and a half >years. Much of the time he was assigned to the US Army Pacific, >but might not have actually been in Vietnam. This is really a very >minor thing and I mention it only to show what is minor and what is >not. >Now, we have Stone carrying some with a top secret cover sheet >through his living room. That is pure showboating because you >just don't transport top secret material that way. He was attempting, >through this little show, to prove how important he was. It was >the same thing, pointing out the sticker on his car and suggesting >that officers had blue stickers and he had a blue sticker. It was an >attempt to increase his credibility by suggesting he was something >that he was not. Neither of these points is trivial, as you suggest. You are overreaching in your inferences here. An individual's behavior when dealing with classified material may be influenced by a range of factors that may account for his behavior. Just because Stone was handling what he claimed to be classified material in a way you consider to be cavalier, doesn't mean it wasn't what he claimed it to be. Whistleblowers by definition are mavericks who are dissatisfied with rules, procedures and policies that restrict information on ETs/UFOs. As for pointing out to you the color of the sticker on his car, there may be a number of explanations. Stone may have been alluding to preferential treatment he was receiving due to his alleged background. Again, I see the same pattern in your evaluation of Stone, pointing out minor inconsistencies in his story and claiming that when you add them all up, he has no credibility. The implication being that we shouldn't consider his testimony as anything upon which UFO/Exopolitics researchers might benefit in understanding alleged crash retrievals. While I understand that there is a need to scrutinise the background of whistleblowers in order to assess whether they are telling the truth, we need to balance this scrutinity with an appreciation of the significance of their claims and the likelihood that they may be subject to various forms of harassment, discrediting, etc., from the 'hard cover up'. There is for example the case of an independent Canadian researcher who was threatened for covering Stone's story, and arranging for documents Stone forwarded to be circulated in Canada (see http://www.rense.com/ufo6/terrorist.htm). That is corroboration that Stone had information that went far beyond what a typist or clerical administrator would have after a 22 year service record as you have suggested, and helps establish his credibility as a whistleblower revealing information on crash retreivals. I think your evaluation of Stone is unbalanced and ignores evidence that he is being subjected to harassment, threats, and discrediting. This makes your focus on inconsistencies in his service record, behavior and testimony questionable. <snip> >Why would Dean be on an intelligence briefing team? He had no >special training for that. His records show that from mid-1963 >to mid-1967 he was at NATO as a master sergeant assigned as the >Chief Clerk Language Service Branch which is hardly the same as >being an intelligence analyst, a position for which he was not >trained. His record shows no assignments as an intelligence >analyst. There is nothing classified about the general training, >and in fact, for those who have access to the Army's Distance >Learning Training Facility (meaning it's on-line), training for >an intelligence analyst is available. So, if Dean's claim was >accurate, the training would be in his record, but if the >assignment was classified, it would show a generic assignment. Dean claims that he received a "Cosmic Top Secret" clearance while serving on the briefing team for the SACEUR. "Cosmic" is a security classification that likely refers to a compartmentalised program set up by the US Army and NATO to deal with UFO/ET related matters. It would be reasonable to conclude that someone receiving such a "Cosmic" classification and having access to the documents requiring that classification would have their service record not include the specialized training required for the performance of their duties. That would help ensure operational security and guard against potential whistleblowers. His military record, as you say, may not include the specialized training he required to be an intelligence analyst, but this was likely due to the nature of his appointment and the security classification it required. I think your assumption of transparency in military records when it comes to the true nature of the classified assignments and training of servicemen is mistaken. >I didn't say that The Assessment was a hoax designed to keep >people awake. I said that Dean claimed in Roswell that he was on >duty at 2 in the morning in NATO's War Room and was having >trouble staying awake. Then, in a colossal breach of security, >"an Air Force bird colonel thumped it down on my desk" In an >interview published in the winter 1995-96 issue of UFO Update AZ >magazine, Dean went a little farther saying, "this Air Force >controller, a bird colonel" pulled this thing out of the vault >and he said, =E2?~Here, read this.' This will wake you up." >So, in this version, the document was completed, in the vault, >and was given to Dean by an Air Force officer who wanted him to >stay awake. A very cavalier way to treat top secret material. >I am surprised that (a) the vault was opened that late at night, >(b) the Air Force colonel could just waltz in and remove >whatever he wanted, and (c) he would gave this thing to a master >sergeant for late night and exciting reading. >So, according to Dean here, and to Dean's assignment at NATO, he >had no need-to-know. OK, so you are not saying that the Assessment is a hoax, but that the commanding officer nonchalently threw a copy Dean's way to keep him awake. So the implications are that either the commanding officer was conducting a massive breach of security (unlikely); or that the Assessment was a hoax (you claim not to be saying this); or that you have mistakenly contextualized the process by which Dean was given access to the Assemement. Of the three, I think the third implication is more accurate. <snip> >>If Dean was an intelligence analyst on the briefing team to the >>SACEUR staff, then he would have had a 'need to know', and thus >>access to the document. >The key part of that sentence is if Dean was an intelligence analyst, >for which we have no evidence. Therefore, he wouldn't have had >the need-to-know, and therefore had no access to the document. I don't follow your logic here. Dean claims that he had a 'need to know' since reading the Assessment was necessary for him being able to brief the SACEUR. I think it very likely that the briefing team for the SACEUR would need to know about UFOs/ET in order not to mistake these for a nuclear missile attack from the former Soviet Union. >>>But, like so much of the whistleblowers" testimony, Dean's >>>breaks down because there is no corroboration for it, and in >>>fact, there are some very disturbing aspects are it. Dean told >>>researcher Tim Good that Fred Hoyle had worked as a consultant >>>to The Assessment. When asked about this, Hoyle wrote that there >>>wasn't an element of truth to the story. >>If Hoyle was brought in as a consultant for a highly classified >>"Cosmic" document, I would hardly expect him to divulge this to >>UFO researchers such as Good. Hoyle would be breaking whatever >>security oath he had taken, and risking whatever privileges he >>had while working as a consultant if he told Good about the >>existence of the Assessment. >But you would expect Dean to divulge this information to UFO >researchers. But Hoyle wasn't the only one Dean identified as >having the same inside knowledge and all denied that The >Assessment even existed" Dean made a decision to become a whistleblower in 1991 and disclose information about classified information he had access to during his time at NATO. The fact that he made that decision doesn't entail others are obliged to follow him and disclose classified information they had access to. <snip> >>I think all you have demonstrated is that you have similar >>competence to a courtroom attorney intent on dismissing the >>credibility of testimonies that you don't want the judge/jury to >>consider in a case where one's substantive arguments are quite >>weak. You bring up a number of red herrings that distract >>attention from the substance of the claims that Dean, Stone and >>Corso raise. <snip> >I have brought up no red herrings, but related factual information >that you choose to dismiss out of hand or by suggesting they are >trivial points. Yet every one goes to the credibility of the people >making the wild claims about crashed UFOs and their supported >service to the government on these classified projects. Yet none of >them can present any evidence that what they say is true. Well, the >records have been altered. Well, agents come in the night and point >guns at me (as Stone has told me on several occasions, threatening >to shoot him, but always allowing him to go home). Well, all these >others are lying because this was highly classified. >When I interviewed Colonel Edwin Easley, who had been the provost >marshal at Roswell in 1947, he didn't deny the event took place, >but told me he couldn't talk about it. He confirmed those things that >he believed were unclassified, such as Mack Brazel being held in the >base guest house, but he didn't flatly deny anything. Yet with Dean >and the others, those in positions to know flatly deny everything. We >find no corroboration at all. Doesn't that strike you as just a little bit >odd? I agree that corrobrating evidence is important, but the sad fact is that witnesses and corroborating witnesses are intimidated, threatened, discredited, etc., all the time. So how can we make corroborating testimony, hard evidence, etc., the threshold criteria for admitting the testimony of whistleblowers? If we did so, we would likely dismiss credible whistleblowers because professionals in the military inteligence community are very competent in their tasked assignments of silencing witnesess and removing evidence concerning ETs/UFOs. We need to work with the premise that a 'hard cover up' is under way and that is what contextualizes our efforts to assess whistleblower testimonies. Establishing threshold criteria similar to Hynek's proposal for the Scientific Investigation of UFOs based on hard evidence and corroborating witness testimony is really an act of faith. While you may convince yourself that you are being faithful to the scientific method, really you are displaying a remarkable lack of awareness of the logical outcomes of the national security implications of the UFO phenomenon, and the 'hard cover' institutialised to protect against disclosure. I think a healthy dose of political realism is needed for those such as yourself desiring a rigorous study of the UFO phenomenon. I recommend you begin by reading Machiavelli's, The Prince, and think what that tells us about how the US military would behave when it comes to protecting the national security of the US against an unknown threat posed by technologically advanced visitors from space. In peace Michael Salla Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:24:13 -0400 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:30:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together >From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:14:54 -0700 >Subject: Re: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:51:35 -0400 >>Subject: Wow! Exempt & Beta Together >>Wow! >>Hard to know what else to say. >>I just read Exempt from Disclosure (Collins and Doty) and then >>Project Beta (Bishop). >>My head is swimming. Definitely a brain-scambling event! What to >>believe? Whom to believe? >What does the track record (of Richard Doty in particular) >suggest? Disinformation, perhaps? Sometimes hard to tell the difference. My intent is to resolve what Doty et all say with what I know from personal interactions. I think Doty was telling the truth about the Kirtland landing document stuff when he told me that there were "most probably" other reports, besides the initial information report. However, I was never able to get the follow on reports through the AFOSI FOIA office. FOIA office said there were no other reports. Now, after reading the book I see why. According to Doty in the book, the follow-on report(s) was/were written by some special AFOSI and NSA and most likely given to NSA. In the book Doty says he never saw the follow on stuff even though he asked. Note: follow on that I refer to here does not refer to the small reports that have circulated for years on the Bennewitz investigation. However, there still is no confirmation numerous and more important claims by Doty. >>Are these guys crazy, or is they actually putting a hole in the >>"iron (cover-up) curtain?" >Or, are they creating a fascinating tale, designed to entertain >(and distract) ufologists (who maybe needed stronger and >stronger dosages of "information" as time goes by)? Time will tell... maybe. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 PRG/X-Conference Report - Part I - 05-30-05 From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:35:43 EDT Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:31:31 -0500 Subject: PRG/X-Conference Report - Part I - 05-30-05 PRG Paradigm Research Group PRG/X-Conference Report - Part I - April 30, 2005 A Personal Note So much happened and is happening around the 2nd Annual Exopolitics Expo - X-Conference 2005 - it will take three or four emails to properly cover the material. I would like to begin with a personal note to all those who attended the conference and others who have received firsthand reports from attendees. This note concerns the Banquet and Keynote on Saturday evening, April 23. I will use this opportunity to apologize for problems which created discomfort for many in attendance. The intention was to have the written Keynote Address of Monsignor Corrado Balducci translated into English from the Italian, placed into a word document and scrolled on screen while the Monsignor spoke in contiguous Italian. This did not get done, and a consecutive translator was obtained at the last minute with such translation prolonging the address. Worse, it was my decision to not obtain a set of powered speakers for the Crystalls Ballroom, thinking incorrectly that PRG had the needed equipment in hand. As a result there was additional delay in setting up working sound and the sound was such that it was necessary to turn off the air conditioner in order to hear the address. Either of these mistakes alone would have been modest, but the two together created compounded discomfort for the attendees and the speaker. I am completely responsible for this, and only the improvisational tech wizardry of Ted Strain prevented a complete failure. With that covered I wish to express my great appreciation to all those in attendance for their politeness and patience and for the respect they showed under difficult conditions to a man who had come many thousands of miles back to America after 37 years to make an important statement. Many were not able to properly follow the Monsignor's address and purpose which was this: he came to the United States to personally reach out to the hundreds of millions of Catholics around the world and invite them to seriously consider the extraordinary implications raised by the mounting evidence of an extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race, he called upon those in authority not to dismiss the firsthand testimony of millions of people to events and evidence as such testimony is part of the foundation for religion as well as science, he wishes to make a personal initiative to advance understanding of these matters and hopes members of the priesthood will take up this challenge, he is particularly interested in the awareness amongst priests in South and Central America. He views the furtherance of this issue to be the last of his life's work. And the message of this initiative has already begun its journey via the many interviews given by the Monsignor to documentary and news teams attending the conference - in particular the interview on its way to Mexico. In studying the lives of other activists and activist movements I have learned there are times when one has to endure and to bear witness - to serve the cause above self. The goal of PRG was, of course, the most efficient, rewarding, entertaining, informative and comfortable event possible with the resources available. And yet, I cannot help but note that Saturday night, with it's wonderful mixture of good spirits, camaraderie, dining pleasure, compassion and forbearance, mirrored the reality of transition through these and other times. What the human race is about to go through will not be easy. It will have much excitement and expectation and also much pain. It will be difficult. While the banquet at the next X-Conference will not repeat the procedural mistakes of this year, I strongly suspect the day will come soon when all those who were there that evening will look back with pride on sitting in service to and respect for the truth. Regards, Stephen Bassett Executive Director ________________________________________________________ Paradigm Research Group E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul URL: www.paradigmclock.com Cell: 202-215-8344 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 _________________________________________________________ 2nd Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg - April 22-24, 2005 www.x-conference.com Tapes/DVDs available at: www.lostartsmedia.com Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:13:13 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:31:59 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Nigel Watson <valis23a.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 07:01:07 EDT >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:45:45 +0200 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:34:53 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear Patient and gentle Listfolk: >>>To appreciate how little prepared ufologists were for the >>>modern abduction phenomenon, one has only to read Walt Webb's >>>report to NICAP of his initial investigation of the Hill CE3 >>>(not suspected to be an abduction then). He overlooks >>>significant parts of the testimony and rationalizes away >>>portions that would later be seen as seminal. The Hill episode >>>was something so new and novel that ufologists failed to >>>recognize it for what it signified till years later. >>>It is important to turn to primary sources whenever possible. >>>There, while doing historical research for my encyclopedia in >>>the 1990s, I found the occasional intriguing but overlooked and >>>not-understood reference to things that sound much like missing >I don't think the Hill case was that novel or out of the >ordinary in 1961. It has been argued that abductions were only >noted in obscure UFO magazines unavailable to the Hills, yet if >we look at the investigation of their case, they had long >discussions with UFO experts within weeks of their encounter >experience. From them they would have picked up plenty of >information about current UFO research and theories. No, they wouldn't have. That material just wasn't available. You simply don't know what you're talking about. Until you do, a wise course of action, it seems to me, would be to choose to engage only in those disucssions in which you have something to contribute. In its time the Hill case was an extraordinary revelation, as all of those who were there in the mid-1960s can testify, when reports of the abduction aspect emerged. There was a general feeling of shock and excitement. Other ufologists who lived and were active at the time will recall exactly what I mean. As I pointed out earlier, the sophisticated and knowledgeable ufologist (and astronomer) Walt Webb, who initially investigated the case, was so unprepared for it that he failed to recognize what he had when he conducted his inquiries. >It should also be noted that throughout the 1950s the contactee >literature and science fiction on TV and in films often >contained alien encounters and abductions. This is no argument at all. If one looks hard enough, one can find, here and there, an illustration of a disclike object in a pre-Arnold SF magazine. That does nothing to help us to explain daylight-disc sightings (Arnold, by the way, was anything but a science-fiction fan) - the presence of which also shocked the world, apparently not so awash SF fans and disc images as pelicanist doctrine requires us to believe. (As early press accounts attest, it was not SF fans who recognized flying saucers, but Forteans.) Using the same logic, one could as easily argue that since popular media depict all kinds of things, mundane and unusual, therefore any claim to any experience already depicted in popular culture is ipso facto suspect. The very fact that the Hill case shocked ufologists - and fascinated many nonufologists - tells us something in itself: that the world is not exactly crowded with SF fans and mentally well persons who confuse SF stories and their own personal experiences. And by the way, taking abductions off the table, where is the evidence that persons who are not emotionally disturbed are subject to vivid science-fiction fantasies which they are deluded into believing really happened? If this is a recognized category of nonpathological mental malfunction and exists outside the abduction arena, it has escaped me. I've never heard of it, and I suspect nobody else has, either. To refine the point, logic tells us that if mentally well persons can undergo vivid, lifelike experiences which are actually just reruns of SF stories, that ought to be easily documentable. The most susceptible would be hard-core SF fans, those who spend a portion of every day of their waking lives reading, writing, viewing, or thinking about SF (not a description of the Hills, of course). Is there any evidence in the clinical literature that SF enthusiasts who are not mentally ill fall victim to extraordinary SF-based hallucinations which they confuse with event-level experience? Didn't think so. Anybody who's interested in efforts to explain the abduction phenomenon, and who expects to be taken seriously, needs first to read, then to come to grips with, Stuart Appelle's seminal "The Abduction Experience: A Critical Evaluation of Theory and Evidence," Journal of UFO Studies 6 (1995/1996): 29-79, available from CUFOS. Appelle, an academic psychologist, reviews all explanations, most of them psychologically and psychiatrically based, and finds all of them empirically wanting, in ways that he outlines in clear, unpolemical prose. His piece is refreshingly free of dogmatic assertion from _either_ side (he is also critical of abduction-as-event proponents), and it represents a plea for an objective, empirical approach, unfortunately absent, for one notable example, in the sorts of screeds to which pelicanists subject us. The pelicanist tautology: Why did Mr. Jones think he was abducted by aliens? Because he confused science fiction with real life. How do we know he confused science fiction with real life? Because he thought he was abducted by aliens. >Jerome Clark acknowledges that the Hill case is the key to the >understanding of UFOs yet seems content to leave the matter with >'no answers'. That seems to be why 'believers' dislike the >sceptics so much - they have no answers just a wry belief that >they are right. This raises the eternal question: Can pelicanists read? I, of course, said nothing like what the sentence beginning "Jerome Clark acknowledges" claims I did. (What in hell is meant, incidentally, by "the key to the understanding of UFOs"? Can anybody decipher that strange reading for me? If this is supposed to be telepathy, Watson's mental radio is severely afflicted with static.) Observers of pelicanist polemic will recognize this as just the sort of predictable misrepresentation of a hated point of view, whose sole purpose is to build a straw man to knock down. As any literate reader understood, my point was this: Efforts to explain the Hill case in prosaic terms have not been notably successful. Nor has it been proved that theirs was an actual encounter with extraterrestrials. Therefore, given four decades of unresolved - and apparently unresolvable - ambiguities, it is perhaps the wisest course to declare it a question, in common with many others, about which certainty is likely to arrive only when we are certain about what UFOs are or are not. If we were to establish that UFOs are all explainable more or less conventionally, then we still may not be able to explain all the particulars of the Hill experience, but we will have eliminated one prominent proposed explanation - that they encountered aliens - from further consideration and discussion. Of course, if there's one thing a pelicanist cannot lay claim to, it's tolerance of ambiguity, in which most of us would think the Hill case is an object lesson. Suspension of judgment, in other words intellectual agnosticism when no other course seems possible for the present, is, as we all know, poison to the pelicanist, who cannot function, it seems, in a realm of complexity and uncertainty which threaten the treasured tradition of disbelief, to be upheld at any cost. Not being a pelicanist, having a decent regard for the demands of empiricism, I neither accept nor reject the abduction phenomenon generally; all I do is wait for further evidence and clarification (currently, for example, in the important research into abduction-related DNA evidence; see Bill Chalker's article in the current IUR). Only in the alternative reality of pelicanism does this make me a "believer." Anyway, since I'm not, in fact, a "believer," whatever that is (apparently a catch-all phrase for anybody who isn't a pelicanist), perhaps the remark about "hating" pelicanists isn't meant for me. If it isn't, I don't know what it's doing in Watson's posting, though, so for the record I'll say that I reserve my "hate" for actual villains of history (Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao, Idi Amin, and the like; I don't even "hate" George W. Bush, though I don't like him much). Far from being hated, pelicanists, by way of contrast, are essentially comic foils for serious anomalists. Moreover, it needs to be pointed out that anomalists are not remotely so obsessed with their adversaries as pelicanists are with theirs, as even casual reading of the relevant literatures will attest. That suggests to me that if there's any hatred involved, it resides in the camp of the "sceptics." Apparently, it will have to do in the absence of empirically defensible arguments from that quarter. Jerry Clark Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:19:27 +0100 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:32:27 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:34:53 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:38:14 +0200 >>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:35:26 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:49:09 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>>>>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:09:02 +0100 >>>>>Subject: Re: UFO Couple Use Story To Spark Alien Abduction Fear >>Here is the opinion of Jerome Clark, in his text published in Alien >>Discussions, the proceedings of the 1992 conference at MIT (p. 16): >>"The Venezuelan (Brazilian) incident bears practically no >>resemblance to modern abductions, and Villas-Boas' - lacking as >>it does such details as missing time, physical examination, and >>constricted movement within the UFO (Villas-Boas was given the >>run of the ship following his intimate encounter - is mostly >>unlike other reports". >For a moment I thought I'd confused Brazil with Venezuela, which >I would never do in any normal state of consciousness. I went to >the article (titled "A Brief History of the UFO-Abduction >Phenomenon") and found that I was referring to two separate >proto-abduction claims, one: >"In December 1954 several violent nocturnal confrontations >between Venezuelans and UFO beings, described as small, hairy, >and clawed, allegedly occurred, and in one instance the >creatures tried to drag a witness into a craft." >And two: >"In another celebrated instance, said to have happened in >October 1957, a young Brazilian man, Antonio Villas-Boas...." >I go on to point out that there is little resemblance between >these incidents and the abduction phenomenon that would emerge >in later decades -- though of course the V-B case anticipates >sexual elements (and, one might argue, hybrids, the subject >incidentally of an extraordinarily interesting DNA- based >investigation being conducted these days by ufologist/chemist >Bill Chalker and a team of scientists in Australia; see the >current issue of International UFO Reporter, available from >CUFOS). >To appreciate how little prepared ufologists were for the modern >abduction phenomenon, one has only to read Walt Webb's report to >NICAP of his initial investigation of the Hill CE3 (not >suspected to be an abduction then). He overlooks significant >parts of the testimony and rationalizes away portions that would >later be seen as seminal. The Hill episode was something so new >and novel that ufologists failed to recognize it for what it >signified till years later. >It is important to turn to primary sources whenever possible. >There, while doing historical research for my encyclopedia in >the 1990s, I found the occasional intriguing but overlooked and >not-understood reference to things that sound much like missing >time that is central to the Hill case and, of course, to many >others that would occur in its wake. The Hills presented even >the most sophisticated ufologists -- and Webb certainly can be >so described -- with aspects of the UFO phenomenon for which >they had no preparation. That's one reason, maybe _the_ reason, >it remains so important in the history of ufology. >In the encyclopedia I wrote, in words that to me still make more >sense most others that I've read, especially by debunkers who, >as is their wont, find deeply threatening any hint of ambiguity >and unanswered question, "The resolution of the Hill case awaits >the resolution of the UFO question itself. If UFOs do not exist, >then Barney and Betty did not meet with aliens. If UFOs do >exist, they probably did. The evidence available to us from this >incident alone provides no answers surer than these. In other >words, no answers at all. For now, anyway." The reason that the missing time didn't feature in Walter Webb's report is that it didn't become a prominent feature of the story until (at least according to John Fuller on pp62ff of the Dell ed of Interrupted Journey) it was suggested to the Hllls by, guess who, Hohman, Jackson and a Major Macdonald. H and J seem to think that ufos were piloted by anti social teenagers who went around stealing things from cars. Again according to Fuller its Major Macdonald who introduces hypnosis into the discussion, citing parallels with _shell_ shock_ (now called post traumatic stress disorder). Of course we can't be sure that this isn't all dramatic licence, to add to the impression of the story being dragged out of the reluctant Hills. As an aside, one of the pioneers of the use of hypnosis etc with pstd was William Sargeant. He emphasised that often what needed to be relived as not actually what happened, but what the person feared might happen. His example was a guy who jumped clear out of a burning tank. When regressed to that his trauma didn't improve, but when he was got to go through a fantasy in which he was trapped inside the burning tank, he began his recovery. The trauma was mainly his fear and horror of what might have happened. Perhaps the same goes with the Hills. Though there were few abduction survivor stories in the early 1960s, the general idea that aliens might kidnap people was, it features in the writings of Harold Wilkins, Morris Jessup, Keyhoe and all the way back to Charles Fort. A serialisation of Jessup's Expanding Case for the UFO in the British newspaper Empire News actually had an illustration of people being abducted by aliens to illustrate Jessup's claim that the crew of the Mary Celeste etc were so abducted. The Hill's full blown abduction story comes out in 1964, and is published in 1966. It gets serialised in Look in the USA, and the Sunday Mirror (then one of Britain's best selling tabloids) in this country. Does it get shot down by ufologists in a hail of derision. No, very few crticial voices are raised. The credibility of the Hill's rests on this idea of a story being dragged out by hypnosis, but also the on the AVB case. Even before the publication of Interrupted Journey the Lorenzen's were using the Hill story to bolster AVB. Its the Lorenzen's who introduce the breeding programme idea. Even before the AVB case was publicised the idea of abduction had been boosted by the Rivalino Mafra da Silva kidnapping case of 1962. These stories set an atmosphere in which the Hill story is given ready acceptance by ufologists. Quite a few of the motifs of later abduction lore appear in John Wyndham's 1957 novel _ The Midwich Cuckoos_ filmed as _Village of the Damned_ in 1960, such as missing time, the idea of whole communities being placed in stasis, the hybrid alien children etc. Could the Hill's have seen that film? It does strike me as rather politically incorrect to call people of mixed European-Asian ancestry, hybrids. I rather suspect that the woman from which this touted hair sample has come is someone who has had a pretty hard life, and suffered a deal of persecution and exploitation, to which ufologists are now adding. Beyond that the notorious British libel laws make further comment hazardous. Use your imagination folks Peter Rogerson Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:02:32 -0700 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:32:55 -0500 Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:10:49 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:13:55 -0400 >>Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>>From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:30:25 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico <snip> >>The ease with which the reports coming out of Mexico are >>dismissed has more to do with long-held prejudices and imagined >>superiority than it has to do with the results of an >>investigation or conclusions that are arrived at via scientific >>methodology. This most recent post about the 'fleet videos' >>being mere balloons is a perfect example. >If you are seriously suggesting that compelling evidence for the >existence of extra-terrestrial craft in our skies is being >"dismissed" because it comes from Mexico, then it is quite >clearly you that is the bigot here. ... >>Nobody has bothered to check I'm sure, but... No 'fleet videos' >>were either recorded or submitted for the date mentioned for the >>balloon release: April the 7th, when this event took place. >>The most recent video and the one closest to the date of the >>balloon flight is from, April the 11 th. The video was recorded >>at 8:30 in the morning. A Monday morning, with not a single >>demonstration happening in the cities of M=E9xico. >Are you basing the date of the video solely on the imprint on >the tape? On Robles Gil's testimony? I would think that if >someone claimed his video was of a known balloon release, and >the best method you have to refute it is to cite the reported >date and time of the video, then the object(s) on the video must >be very strongly similar to balloons, else you could just point >at the video and say, "you call those balloons"? Since the date >is not verifiable, either by the videographer's report or the >camera itself, this is a non-starter. Balloons unless and until >evidence emerges to the contrary. Kyle, It's a no-brainer: they can't have been balloons. The key reason for this you didn't mention, but others have. The objects remained in the same relative positions with respect to each other - hundreds of them, for as long as the video showed them, which was over many seconds. This was more than enough time to disclose the influence of turbulence had these been balloons. Turbulence in the planetary boundary layer - that lowest layer of the atmosphere extending from several hundred feet up to several thousand ft - would have caused balloons to disperse and move relative to each other's positions. Even a small amount of dispersion would have shown up in the video in a few seconds' time. But it didn't. The reported date/time of the video indicates that the turbulent layer would have had plenty of time to rise up above several hundred feet, by 8:30 in the morning. And the fact that the objects showed up as significant-sized orbs on the video indicate that if they had been ordinary toy balloons, they could not have been above a height of a couple hundred ft. If somehow there had been no turbulence, a seeming impossibility for the low daytime atmosphere, there would then have been some wind shear. Wind shear would then have continually sheared out the formation of balloons, had they been balloons. Ask Martin Shough if you need confirmation of the above. Therefore, not balloons. If you need another reason, it is that a balloon is very difficult to inflate with a proper mixture of lighter-than air gas plus possible ballast, such as to get it to travel horizontally, neither rising nor sinking. Try it some time with just one balloon, then extend the difficulty to several hundred balloons. And even if that impossibility were somehow surmounted, all such balloons would need to have risen to about the same general height somehow and then ceased rising any further. Another impossibility. Therefore, these objects remain unidentified, i.e., UFOs. Jim Deardorff Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:38:47 -0400 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:33:32 -0500 Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >From: Kyle King <kyleking.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:10:49 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:13:55 -0400 >>Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico >>>From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:30:25 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: More UFO Fleets Over Mexico <snip> >>Hola Santiago, All, >>The ease with which the reports coming out of Mexico are >>dismissed has more to do with long-held prejudices and imagined >>superiority than it has to do with the results of an >>investigation or conclusions that are arrived at via scientific >>methodology. This most recent post about the 'fleet videos' >>being mere balloons is a perfect example. >If you are seriously suggesting that compelling evidence for the >existence of extra-terrestrial craft in our skies is being >"dismissed" because it comes from Mexico, then it is quite >clearly you that is the bigot here. I've looked at lots of >images, videos, and written reports. Some are very intriguing. I >couldn't care less where they come from. My interest is in >finding something extraordinary, something for which I have no >rational explanation. That's what keeps me looking. Not to prove >some personal hypothesis (I don't have one), but to be there >when the truth reveals itself..vigilant. If proof came from >Mexico, I would be as exhilirated as if it happened on the White >House lawn. I believe everyone on this List would agree. The >only evidence of a dissenting view from what I've read is coming >from your poison pen. And it reads like a whine against an enemy >that doesn't exist. Mexico may once have been the Rodney >Dangerfield of the West, but the US of A has usurped that title >and appears to be intent on holding it for oh, another 3 years >or so. On this I do not feel your pain. Mexico being >ridiculed... have you read the papers lately? If you're gonna >bring it, then bring it. <g> >>Nobody has bothered to check I'm sure, but... No 'fleet videos' >>were either recorded or submitted for the date mentioned for the >>balloon release: April the 7th, when this event took place. >>The most recent video and the one closest to the date of the >>balloon flight is from, April the 11 th. The video was recorded >>at 8:30 in the morning. A Monday morning, with not a single >>demonstration happening in the cities of M=8Exico. > >Are you basing the date of the video solely on the imprint on >the tape? On Robles Gil's testimony? I would think that if >someone claimed his video was of a known balloon release, and >the best method you have to refute it is to cite the reported >date and time of the video, then the object(s) on the video must >be very strongly similar to balloons, else you could just point >at the video and say, "you call those balloons"? Since the date >is not verifiable, either by the videographer's report or the >camera itself, this is a non-starter. Balloons unless and until >evidence emerges to the contrary. >>And by the way, can they explain all of the other videos? >I wish someone would point me to "all the other videos". I have >located one single very unimpressive video file from Robles Gil. >I'd be happy to eat my words if there's any "sauce" in these >other videos. My balloon comments were based entirely on the >single video file linked in this thread. >>It's ridiculous how easily the reports and recordings are >>dismissed without the slightest attempt at investigation. In >>fact, it's nothing short of insulting. Which is what prompted my >>sarcastic missive on the subject. >I'm sure that having your videotapes dismissed can be insulting, >but you don't have to be from Mexico. Billy Meier, Bob Lazar, Ed >Walters... none from Mexico. The evidence is what leads to such >dismissal. The video... or what little I have been fortunate >enough to see... appears first to be balloons. Unless and until >I see or hear evidence that directly refutes this impression, my >intellect will not allow my conscience to make the leap that >they are anything but. I'm completely open to being refuted, but >emotion is not a substitute for evidence. >>I have videotaped the exact same objects... ><snip> >If you don't know what is in Robles Gil's video, how can you >assert that you have videotaped the "exact same things"? >>Talk about having your head buried in the sand! The skies over >>Mexico are becoming the center stage of first contact while the >>rest of the world dismisses it as misinterpretation of ordinary >>birds and balloons and looks the other way. >>How sad. What a commentary on us. >Considering that Yturria makes much of the fact that the >object(s) are unknown (whether mundane OR ET), you seem to have >quite a different view. On what is this anomalous mindset based? >And we're obviously not looking the other way... we're just >waiting for something to see. The video I have seen which was >the basis for this thread are something less. >>The UFO occupants must think we're _all_ mentally challenged! >At the very least, any visiting aliens observing us scrambling >the gunships and putting the POTUS in a bunker for a cloud >probably looked pretty lame, too. Or was it a cloud... hmmm. <g> Hello Kyle, It never makes much sense to try to conduct a conversation or discussion with someone who is as obviously 'upset' by a subject as you are about UFOs. You seem to have taken my comments and observations 'personally'. As if they had been directed to you and you alone. For example, you write: "If you are seriously suggesting that compelling evidence for the existence of extra-terrestrial craft in our skies is being 'dismissed' because it comes from Mexico, then it is quite clearly you that is the bigot here. I've looked at lots of images, videos, and written reports." I find it curious and even a little amusing that out of the many individuals who subscribe to this List and all those who read the posts, you seem to be the only one who reacted as if the content of my message was directed at you personally. Besides, I do not engage in the kind of self-loathing required to be prejudiced against one's own people, race or nationality. Why does all this upset you so, Kyle? Have you ever witnessed/seen a UFO? What is your stake in all this that you are so easily upset and obviously bothered by comments such as mine? Let me assure you, I didn't have _you_ in mind when I wrote them. Even though, I seem to have struck a nerve. Take it easy Kyle. Life is too short to allow comments such as mine upset your apple cart as it apparently has. I'm as entitled to my opinions and to express them as you are yours. You don't see me blowing-up over some remark or observation that you've made. Actually, when I see your name in the header of a post, I usually just trash it unread. If my opinions and comments upset you as much as you have demonstrated here in this response to my post, then I suggest you do the same with my posts when you see them. I'm going to save my energy for people who may wish to discuss this situation. I have no time or patience for the insecure ones who show up to a discussion _aggressively_ looking for a fight. I'm not desperate to prove anything to anybody, as you, so transparently, do. I wish you Peace - Because Life is too short for anything else! John Velez Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Apr > Apr 30 Re: The Engineered Moon From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:15:38 -0500 Archived: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:34:01 -0500 Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:06:56 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: The Engineered Moon >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Sent: Apr 19, 2005 7:34 PM >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Subject: UFO UpDate: The Engineered Moon >>Source: The Epoch Times >>http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-4-16/27911.html >>http://www.geocities.com/jilaens/moon.htm >The above reference had the following statement >"4. On March 7, 1971, lunar instruments placed by the astronauts >recorded a vapor cloud of water passing across the surface of >the moon. The cloud lasted 14 hours and covered an area of about >100 square miles." >This implication is that some weird thing was happening and that >the Moon is more than we think. >To be honest, I had little problem with this Moon water idea but >I decided anyway to examine the original report from 1973 by >J.W. Freeman. He speculated then that the only source could be >the Moon (an internal water source). He also relates how this >could be the cause of Lunar Transient Phenomena. >However, I searched on other papers by this gentleman and found >a later paper called "The Apollo lunar surface water vapor event >revisited", from 1991. His NEW conclusion is as follows... >"It is concluded that during most of the event the observed >water vapor ions were accelerated by the negative lunar surface >electric potential and, secondly, that this event was probably >the result of mission associated water vapor, either from the LM >ascent and descent stage rockets or from residual water in the >descent stage tanks." >So much for the myth of the March 7, 1971 event! Perhaps the "myth" is what's in the second paper. Several years ago, I got copies of both papers. The first one entitled "Water Vapor, whence comest thou?" was in the Proceedings of the Third Lunar Science Conference in 1972. The paper gave 100,000 kg as a lower estimate of the amount of water vapor released. The estimate was based on the nearly simultaneous detection at two Apollo landing sites located 183 kilometers apart (Apollo 12 and Apollo 14). The second paper retracted the very large estimate of the water vapor released and concluded that a few hundred kg were released, with a tank at the Apollo 14 landing site as the proposed source of the water. The rationale for the drastically revised estimate was insufficient understanding of the electrical environment of the lunar surface at the time of the first paper. The curious thing about the second paper is that it made no mention at all of what seemed to be the _salient_ fact in the first paper: that the event was detected at two sites 183 km apart. Only the Apollo 14 measurements were discussed in the second paper. No explanation was given for the observations at the Apollo 12 site on the same day. I'm far from being an expert on this subject, but the mysterious disappearance of the Apollo 12 observations in the second paper makes me wonder whether the estimate was revised to fit the facts or the facts were revised to fit someone's preferred theories. Listen to 'Strange Days... Indeed' - The PodCast