UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 1 Body identified As 'Alien' Lobbyist In Nevada From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:20:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:18:09 -0400 Subject: Body identified As 'Alien' Lobbyist In Nevada Source: The Las Vegas Sun http://tinyurl.com/dyxdv July 19 2005 Body identified As 'Alien' Lobbyist In Nevada MOUND HOUSE, Nev. (AP) - A decomposing body found along the Carson River has been identified as a one-time Nevada legislative lobbyist who claimed to represent space aliens and campaigned for southern Nevada's "Extraterrestrial Highway." The body of David Venus Solomon, 52, a self-proclaimed alien known as Ambassador Merlyn Merlin II, was found late last week, said Lyon County Sheriff's Department investigator Cherie Rye. According to the Washoe County Coroner's Office, identification was made by fingerprints. Deputy Coroner Steve Finnell said the cause of death was undetermined. "The skull was intact and there were no signs of trauma from what we could tell," he said. He estimated the body had been there at least a month. Investigators were unable to locate the car in which Solomon lived, a 1976 brown and white Monte Carlo. Friend Pat Travis, owner of the Little A'le'Inn in Rachel, Nev., said the man she knew as Merlin never went anywhere without his car. Travis and Merlin met during the campaign to have State Route 375's name changed to "The Extraterrestrial Highway." Rachel is the only community along the route in the desert about 95 miles north of Las Vegas. In Carson City, Merlin was a well-known character at the Legislature from 1995 until 1999, when he was barred from the grounds. During the 1999 session, a female employee cleaning a restroom in the Nevada Legislature reported Merlin had exposed himself to her. Assemblyman Bob Price, D-North Las Vegas, a friend of Merlin's, said the incident was blown out of proportion. Price said Merlin had gone into the bathroom when a cleaning sign was posted, but when he didn't see anyone in the bathroom he used the facilities. Price said he had known Merlin since 1989 and believed his family was somewhere in California, possibly near Laguna Niguel or Dunsmuir.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 1 Close Encounter Revisited From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:48:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:48:17 -0400 Subject: Close Encounter Revisited Source: The Boston Globe - Massachusetts, USA http://tinyurl.com/95jbe September 1, 2005 Close Encounter Revisited N.H. teen's 1965 sighting became blueprint for UFOs By Joel Brown Globe Correspondent Forty years ago this Saturday, New Hampshire teenager Norman Muscarello walked down a dark country road into weird history. In the wee hours of Sept. 3, 1965, the 18-year-old Muscarello set out to hitchhike home from Amesbury to Exeter. At about 2 a.m., he was walking on a deserted stretch of Route 150 in Kensington, about a half-mile short of the Exeter line. "Near an open field between two houses, the Thing, as he called it, came out of the sky directly toward him," John G. Fuller later wrote in his best seller, "Incident at Exeter." "It was as big as or bigger than a house. It appeared to be 80 to 90 feet in diameter, with brilliant, pulsating red lights around an apparent rim. It wobbled, yawed, and floated toward him. It made no noise whatever." Muscarello told Fuller that as the unidentified flying object floated toward him, he dived onto the shallow shoulder of the road. It hovered over the Clyde Russell farmhouse, lighting everything blood red, then floated away. Muscarello ran to the house and banged on the door, but no one answered. A car came from the south, and Muscarello flagged it down, begging a ride to the Exeter police station. There he blurted out his story to desk officer Reginald "Scratch" Toland, who sent patrolman Eugene Bertrand, an Air Force veteran, out to the scene with him. A few minutes later, Fuller wrote, "Scratch Toland was nearly blasted out of his chair by Bertrand's radio call. 'My God. I see the damn thing myself!' " As the brilliant red lights emerged over the woods behind the Carl Dining farm, Bertrand drew his service revolver, then thought better of it. He put the gun away and pulled Muscarello back to his cruiser. Officer David Hunt drove up in time to see the hovering UFO before it darted away to the east. Like all Seacoast residents, the trio were accustomed to seeing planes from Pease Air Force Base in Portsmouth flying overhead. "There was no comparison," Hunt told Fuller. Bertrand and Hunt took Muscarello home to his worried mother at their Front Street apartment. Meanwhile a motorcycle-riding Manchester Union Leader reporter dropped by the Exeter station. At a later panel discussion, Toland said that when he looked up and saw the man walking up in his helmet and goggles, "I got under the desk. I thought he was one of them." No one, though, had actually seen any space aliens. The news spread quickly. Others reported strange lights in the sky that night, and the two officers added credibility to Muscarello's fantastic tale. In true "X-Files" fashion, a couple of Air Force officers from Pease dropped by the Muscarello apartment within hours, one with a metal briefcase handcuffed to his wrist, according to Muscarello's younger brother, Thomas Muscarello. "That was real shady," Thomas said recently. "They told Norman to be quiet, keep his mouth shut, don't say nothing, don't talk about this." But it was too late. The officers argued with Norman Muscarello and his mother, and Norman told them to get out. The following days and weeks were "just chaos," Thomas Muscarello said, with news crews, reporters, neighbors, and UFO investigators all asking questions. The Air Force and others offered explanations, including one newspaper story that suggested an advertising plane was what the three had seen, but none panned out. Soon, Fuller, a Saturday Review columnist, came to town. He filed stories about the case in the Review, Look, and other magazines. His book, "Incident at Exeter," became a bestseller in 1966, although the title misstates the location of the sighting. While in the Granite State, Fuller met Barney and Betty Hill of Portsmouth. Their lurid tale of alien abduction in the White Mountains in 1961, elicited under hypnosis, became his second bestseller, "The Interrupted Journey," the basis for a 1975 TV movie starring James Earl Jones and Estelle Parsons as the Hills. Fuller's two books shaped pop culture's UFO paradigm: the dark country road, the blinding lights, the sinister government officials, the abduction, and the experiments. "It's almost as if this became the blueprint by which a lot of stories would be told," said Robert J. Thompson, a professor of TV and popular culture at Syracuse University. "Anybody who watches 'The X- Files' or reads UFO fiction can see a lot of echoes of these two books in the background, even when Homer Simpson gets abducted." For longtime Kensington residents, though, the incident is a reminder of a more innocent time. At the Brewer farm, across Route 150 from the Russell place, reports of Muscarello's sighting didn't exactly spark panic about little green men. "We just thought it would be kind of neat to see it if it came back," Bernice Brewer said recently. The Brewers owned land behind the Dining farm. Her son Peter, then 10, and some of the neighbor children put up signs along the road advertising UFO CAMPGROUND. There were no takers, but Brewer said people "used to go out in the field with their blankets and their popcorn, waiting" for the UFO to return. "I do remember someone came to our school once and asked if anybody had seen anything. I think I lied and said I saw it," Peter Brewer said with a cackle. "I don't think he believed me." A co-worker of Peter's father at Exeter Manufacturing brought over a "UFO detector," with mysterious circuits in a glass jar that were supposed to set off an alarm when they sensed the electromagnetic signature of a UFO. It only worked, though, on days when a certain friend of Peter's sister came to visit. "Every time her mother drove in to pick her up, it set the thing off," Mrs. Brewer said, laughing. Did she drive a UFO? "I think it was a Buick, I'm not sure." Norman Muscarello started Navy basic training three weeks after the incident. "Everybody made all this money and he never made a penny," Thomas Muscarello said recently, at his auto detailing business in Exeter. "And then he did three tours of Vietnam. I mean, come on, that doesn't seem right, does it? After he came back from Vietnam the third time, he wasn't the same person. They got pretty close to shore, they got mortared. They were picking up wounded." At home in Exeter, Norman Muscarello lived a quiet life, working at the Alrose Shoe Company, not far from the family's old apartment. His brother says he never brought up the UFO but shared his story with some who sought him out. He even went to Exeter High School to speak to students who devoted an edition of the school paper in 1980 to the incident. Others got a different reception. "He [Norman Muscarello] wasn't a happy camper," said Peter Geremia, director of the Mutual UFO Network's New Hampshire chapter. "I got to his place [for a 1990 interview] and he started talking, and then he accused me of having a hidden tape recorder. And so I assured him I didn't, and he started ranting and raving. And I said, 'OK, I don't need this, I'm heading out,' and he calmed down. It was a strange interview, to be sure." Muscarello died in 2003 after a sudden illness. Fuller has died, as have Bertrand, Toland, and Barney and Betty Hill. Hunt now works as a bailiff in the Rockingham County courthouse in nearby Brentwood. He declined to be interviewed, as he has since the 1960s. In a brief phone conversation, he conceded that the attention given to the case became bothersome after a while, and not just from those who doubted the story. "People on both ends of the spectrum, really. People that don't believe it at all and people that go overboard," he said. "People in the middle make more sense." Asked if he was glad that the incident seems to be fading into history, Hunt said, "It doesn't really matter any more." Pease Air Force Base shut down in 1991, as the Cold War ended. The Exeter Historical Society's material on the incident consists of a slim folder of photocopied newspaper stories. The Muscarello and Hill stories "kind of set the iconography, the theme, the general way in which we perceive alien encounters in pop culture," said Thompson. "But at the same time, the references themselves ... kind of disappeared." Fuller's two bestsellers were reprinted in a single volume in 1997. Its recent Amazon.com sales rank: 412,640. Marden Marshall said he wasn't aware of the incident when he bought the Dining farm about 10 years ago. "I did not know anything about it until after I handed over the deposit check," he said. "And as soon as I handed it to [the real estate agent], she said, 'By the way...' " A previous owner told Marshall that UFO devotees used to camp out at the farm on the anniversary. But Marshall has seen no campers -- and no UFOs. "It's so long in the past, I think everyone has forgotten about it," he said. This summer, two Exeter-area residents reported seeing huge unidentified flying objects in broad daylight. But they held onto their anonymity. Muscarello's brother is one of the few who find their accounts credible. He still firmly believes there's something out there. "All these years I haven't seen anything,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 1 Secrecy News -- 09/01/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:02:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:50:39 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/01/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 84 September 1, 2005 ** KATRINA: AN INCIDENT OF NATIONAL SIGNIFICANCE ** BACKGROUND ON THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS ** DEFENSE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM ** SELECTED CRS REPORTS ** NASA REGULATES CONTACTS WITH THE PUBLIC KATRINA: AN INCIDENT OF NATIONAL SIGNIFICANCE The wreckage produced by Hurricane Katrina constitutes an "incident of national significance." This bit of bureaucratic understatement is actually a technical term used by the Secretary of Homeland Security to activate emergency procedures known as the National Response Plan (NRP). It was invoked this week for the first time by DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff. The NRP, formulated in December 2004, is intended "to align Federal coordination structures, capabilities, and resources into a unified, all-discipline, and all-hazards approach to domestic incident management." A copy of the National Response Plan is available here (426 pages, 4.0 MB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/nrp.pdf Donations in support of disaster relief may be made to the American Red Cross at 1-800-435-7669 or here: http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate/ BACKGROUND ON THE ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is the defense agency that is responsible for flood control, disaster relief, environmental restoration, and municipal water infrastructure, among other timely matters. For relevant background, see: "The Civil Works Program of the Army Corps of Engineers: A Primer," Congressional Research Service, updated February 3, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS20866.pdf "Army Corps of Engineers Civil Works Program: Issues for the 109th Congress," Congressional Research Service, updated June 9, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/IB10120.pdf US Army Corps of Engineers home page: http://www.usace.army.mil/ DEFENSE CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM A new Department of Defense Directive defines policy and assigns responsibility for the protection of "defense critical infrastructure," which refers to "assets essential to project, support, and sustain military forces and operations worldwide." See "Defense Critical Infrastructure Program," DoD Directive 3020.40, August 19, 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/d3020_40.pdf SELECTED CRS REPORTS Some recent or recently acquired reports of the Congressional Research Service obtained by Secrecy News include the following. "Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations, 1997-2004," August 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33051.pdf "Airborne Laser (ABL): Issues for Congress," August 18, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL32123.pdf "Intelligence Reform Implementation at the Federal Bureau of Investigation: Issues and Options for Congress," August 16, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/intel/RL33033.pdf "Military Service Records and Unit Histories: A Guide to Locating Sources," updated August 12, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/secrecy/RS21282.pdf "Homeland Security: Scope of the Secretary's Reorganization Authority," updated August 9, 2005 (via Pennyhill Press): http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RS21450.pdf "U.S. Assistance to the Former Soviet Union," updated July 14, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL32866.pdf "Military Helicopter Modernization: Background and Issues for Congress," June 24, 2004: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL32447.pdf "Nuclear Weapons and U.S. National Security: A Need for New Weapons Programs?," September 15, 2003: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RS21619.pdf NASA REGULATES CONTACTS WITH THE PUBLIC The National Aeronautics and Space Administration adopted a new policy this week to regulate contacts with the general public. The policy seems intended in part to insulate the agency from unscripted and unapproved interactions with the public. Instead of responding directly to public inquiries, NASA employees are instructed to forward such inquiries to an authorized public affairs representative. "Effective immediately, if you receive an e-mail from a member of the public, promptly forward it to the designated e-mail address for your Center," the NASA message stated. And then forget about it. "You will not receive a reply that the e-mail has been successfully accepted, nor will you receive a copy of the response." The new policy, which also addresses messages that are sent to NASA by mistake, is needed "to ensure a responsive public communications program and enhance public perception of NASA," the message states. See "Message from NASA Headquarters - Communicating With the Public," August 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/08/nasa082905.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 1 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:18:48 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:45:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Friedman >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:24:53 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 15:28:54 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 13:18:50 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:14:51 -0300 >>>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>>Because you brought it up in the first place. I stated quite >>>emphatically that I didn't think that the AA craft was a star >>>ship. You said that maybe it wasn't a starship but that it could >>>have been carried by a mother star ship. I agreed but reminded >>>you that even thought the AA craft might have had a mothership, >>>that didn't mean that it was a star ship. I guess you've agreed >>>to that. So would you mind reexamining the AA debris footage and >>>tell us what you see. >>This beginning to sound like double talk..... >Stan, >I'm sorry if I've been confusing. You made an important point >and I was trying to elaborate. I agree with you that the AA >craft could have come from a mothership. But a "starship" is not >a possibility since travel between stars isn't possible, and >hasn't been accomplished by any civilization, anywhere, under >any circumstances, as far as we know. Kaku's pipe dreams will >never become reality. In this case, ( travel between stars) our >reach far exceeds our grasp. We can believe, on faith, that star >travel is possible, but there is no evidence. Just as there is >not a crumb of evidence for time travel, ghosts, god, or extra >dimensions that we can access. The notion that travel between the stars isn't possible is flat out ridiculous. I worked on fusion propulsion sytems in the early 1960s... able to eject charged particles having 10 million times as much energy per particle as in a dumb old chemical rocket. No we haven't done it yet, We hadn't gone to the moon in 1925 either nor flown in 1900. Let us not forget that we have only had "sophisticated" technology for about 100 years. Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli just down the street 39 light years away are a billion years older than the sun. We have also operated powerful fission rockets on the ground in the 1960s. Ed, you remind me of Dr. Campbell who in 1941 did a long "scientific" paper showing that the required initial launch weight for a chemical rocket to get a man to the moon and back would be a million, million tons. He was off by a factor of 300,000,000. I am not talking about Kaku's stuff, though he may be right. You really ought to read my 1999 MUFON paper "Star Travel? YES!". In case you hadn't noticed it we don't use slide rules much any more. >We should work with what we have and what we know for sure and >the simplest explanation possible: we share our planet and the >solar system with at least one other civilization. It isn't the simplest explanation at all. Data from all over the planet indicates aliens are coming here. That really isn't a big deal. We are moving in that direction. We are young. They are older. It is a big and old galactic neighborhood in case you hadn't noticed. >This civilization evolved here and is subject to the same >environmental forses and constraints as humans. >Witness testimony and the AA give us some idea of the minimum we >can expect: a wide variety of humanoid entities who ride around >fast vehicles, that come in many shapes and sizes. >>Who is the cameraman >The cameraman is the person who filmed the Alien Autopsy footage. How about a name and background check. Have you or anybody else met him? What do we know about his service record? It sure wasn't Jack Barnett the real cmeraman who was the first to film Elvis. Santilli surely didn't buy the AA footage from him as he died in the 1960s. >>and how did you get the drawing >The drawings, depicting the craft, from two angles, were >published in "Beyond Roswell" by Hesemann & Mantle. How do we know their provenance? >Haven't you >seen them? I believe they were drawn from photos taken by the >cameraman. The detail of terrain and the army trucks is just too >accurate to be from memory. Do we have facts here? There are lots of pictures of trucks >>and how is >>it you determined that this pile of stuff was or wasn't from the >>stars? Did it say made by General Motors? >I used my gifts of observation and the, Discussion Of The Debris, >by Dennis Murphy. I'm sure it would be quite obvious to you if >you'd only take a good look >>My point was that there is no need for the small craft to have >>come here directly on their own from another solar system since >>that job is very likely performed by the big ones. >But there is no need to posit "another solar system" until you >have established that these crafts aren't from here. The flying characteristics of a host of UFOs observed here clearly indicate they weren't made on the planet or they would have been used in several wars.You certainly haven't established
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 2 UFO Sighting Terrified Locals 40 Years Ago From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:50:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:50:58 -0400 Subject: UFO Sighting Terrified Locals 40 Years Ago Source: The Portsmouth Herald, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, USA http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/09022005/news/60792.htm September 2, 2005 UFO Sighting Terrified Locals 40 Years Ago By Bonnie Meroth news.nul EXETER - Engulfed in the blackness of a late summer night, a teenage Navy recruit walked down the quiet country highway. Suddenly, a huge object loomed above him. Throwing himself to the ground to avoid being hit, he huddled against a stone wall. The blood drained from his face. The time was around 2 a.m. The date was Sept. 3, 1965. Thus began the "Incident at Exeter," a series of sightings officially qualified as a legitimate visit from an unidentified flying object. In September and October 1965, several sightings in New Hampshire were carefully investigated and documented by local and federal offices. The encounters that night took special precedence over other UFO sightings because of the credibility of Exeter police officers Eugene Bertrand and David Hunt, as well as Reginald "Scratch" Toland, who was dispatcher and supervising officer when the shaken teenager, Norman Muscarello, came to the police station claiming he had encountered a UFO. A similar report substantiated his story. Earlier, Bertrand had come upon a lone woman parked on the side of Route 101 near an overpass two miles outside Exeter. She said a huge, silent, red and brilliantly glowing airborne object had chased her from the town of Epping about 12 miles away. It had been only a few feet from her car before it departed at a tremendous speed and disappeared. Bertrand saw nothing but a bright star and sent her home. Toland also spoke to the woman, who told him she had been chased by the "low-flying, large, round object with flashing red lights." An hour later, Bertrand received a call from Toland to report back to the station immediately because "a kid had come in who had seen a UFO." The police officer picked up Muscarello at the station. The teen led him back to the site where he=92d seen the craft. After sitting in the parked cruiser for several minutes, Bertrand radioed the dispatcher to say they saw nothing unusual. Bertrand, instructed to check out the field before heading back, proceeded to do so with Muscarello. Horses in a nearby barn began to kick and whinny. Dogs in the neighborhood began to howl. Muscarello shouted, "Look out, here it comes!" and they watched as something luminous rose from behind tall evergreens. The aircraft, about 100 feet away, silently sped so close to Bertrand that he dropped to the ground and drew his service weapon. "There was this huge, dark object as big as that barn over there with red flashing lights on it," Bertrand later told an investigator. "It barely cleared that tree right there, and it was moving back and forth. =85 It seemed to tilt and come right at us. Norman told me later that I was yelling, =91I=92ll shoot it! I=92ll shoot it!=92 I did drop on one knee and drew my service revolver, but I didn=92t shoot." Bertrand, dragged Muscarello, frozen with fear, back to the cruiser. =46rom the car, the men saw no tail, no wings and heard no sound. Already en route, Hunt arrived within minutes and saw the UFO as it "floated, wobbled and did things that no plane could do" before it darted away toward Hampton. They returned to the station to write their report. Toland received a call shortly after from a Hampton telephone operator who said that a distressed motorist attempted to contact the police from a pay phone. He yelled at the operator, saying he was being chased by a flying saucer that came right at him and that it was still out there. He was then disconnected. A Hampton Police Department=92s blotter entry for that night reads: "September 3, 1965: 3 a.m. Exeter Police Department reports unidentified flying object in that area. Units 2, 4 and Pease Air Force alerted. At 3:17 a.m., received a call from Exeter operator and Officer Toland. Advised that a male subject called and asked for police department, further stating that call was in re: a large unidentified flying object, but call was cut off. Call received from a Hampton pay phone, location unknown." The official report to Project Blue Book from the director of administrative services of the Pease Air Force Base at Portsmouth concluded with this paragraph by the investigator: "At this time, have been unable to arrive at a probable cause of this sighting. The three observers seem to be stable, reliable persons, especially the two patrolmen. I viewed the area and found nothing in the area that could be the probable cause." Project Blue Book is a compilation by the U.S. government to repute the existence of extraterrestrial objects. Peter Geremia, New Hampshire state director of the Mutual Unidentified Flying Object Network Inc., noted: "The police officers involved put their careers on the line. They courageously came forward and stated what they saw at a time when witnesses were not allowed any credibility on the subject." Geremia, who has appeared on national media programs including "Unsolved Mysteries," presented chronological depiction of what happened the night of the Incident at Exeter. His "decent rendition of what happened" matches the series of events starting with Muscarello being frightened by a UFO. Bertrand, although an Air Force veteran, was never able to put a name to the UFO. "What do you call a UFO? Was it from another planet? We just couldn=92t identify it," he noted. He meticulously described it as a "huge, shapeless object with five sequentially pulsating-from-left-to-right bright red lights, so bright you couldn=92t look at it." The Pentagon repeatedly denied the sightings, but the incident was read into the congressional record in April 1966 by Raymond Fowler, representative of the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena in Washington. It was the first open congressional hearing on UFOs. Fowler, internationally renowned author of 11 books about UFOs, has studied UFO reports for decades. In a recent interview, he shared his thoughts on the Exeter incident and the stories that followed. "The second-hand speculation stories were varied and perhaps hypothesized," Fowler said. "Muscarello=92s mother purportedly saw confidential drawings of a UFO landing site pattern that was handcuffed to an Air Force investigator who visited her house. The neighboring farmer was instructed by the Air Force to plow under landing marks in his field. "The hens in the neighborhood stopped laying eggs. The air-base intelligence officer was seen buying up all the newspapers carrying stories about Sept. 3. A base commander was seen in civilian clothes rather than uniform while investigating," he related. Then, there was the irrefutable. "There were major similarities with these area sightings that conform to documented cases. UFOs tend to be seen near swamps, major power lines or nuclear sources. Muscarello noticed the object coming from over a line of trees behind which were major power lines. There was a swamp in the area. Pease and the Navy yard both had nuclear power entities. And, when a Pease Air Force base commander attempted to disprove it was a UFO by simulating the incident by turning on runway lights, he failed," noted Fowler. Fowler, now retired from active investigation, noted in a letter to the United States Air Force, "The UFO sighted by Norman Muscarello was identical to the UFO seen later by Muscarello, Bertrand and Hunt. "There is no question in my mind that the same or similar object was involved in both of these particular sightings. "Since I did not interview the unnamed woman, I am not certain of the details =85 but according to Officer Bertrand, the object =85 was very similar to the UFO they sighted later =85 another witness, a male motorist, also sighted a similar object. =85"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 2 Belzer's Connections On Sci-Fi From: Jason Gammon <LuckyHoodoo.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:10:06 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:53:21 -0400 Subject: Belzer's Connections On Sci-Fi Just watched a re-run of Belzer's Connections on Sci-fi and was
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:16:22 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:55:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:17:17 -0300 >Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:43:42 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 14:23:21 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>To: >>>>ufoupdates.nul Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 >>>>10:47:18 -0700 Subject: Vallee On Abductions & Medical >>>>Procedures >><snip> >>>>In Vallee's view, the "interaction remembered by the >>>>witnesses," if it "was a real encounter," should be >>>>"treated at the symbolic level." It "does not," Vallee >>>>felt, "tell us anything about the extraterrestrial origin >>>>of the beings." The "idea that they must perform such >>>>experiments to enrich their race," Vallee argued, was >>>>"merely another contribution to the absurd character of >>>>the entire phenomenon" - absurd not in the sense of being >>>>non-existent, in Vallee's view, but in the sense of being >>>>something other than a series of physical occurrences >>>>involving technologically advanced extraterrestrial >>>>visitors. [Vallee, Dimensions, p. 269] >>><snip> >>>The point should be obvious: It is to inflict trauma and >>>confusion, not to collect "scientific" data. >Good point in my estimation. But for what reasons? Maybe it's >time to conjecture as to why. >And I'm surprised the media or others haven't attempted to >exploit Vallee's "absurd" observation as other than what he >meant, that absurdity can be a part of the phenomenon, but not >the nature of the phenomenon. >Examples: Oxford Concise Dictionary- >The absurd - that which is absurd, esp.human existence in a >purposeless, chaotic universe. >Absurdism [n], the belief that human beings exist in a >purposeless, chaotic universe. >There's an odd explanation of a word. It would appear that >Vallee chose the word carefully. Frankly, I think Jacques comments are very naive and based on his perceptions,as with those of many astronomers,that interstellar travel is not possible. Furthermore, it seems clear that we have about 6 billion different people (speaking from a genetic viewpoint)on this planet. Why not a survey of variations? After all there are many relatively rare but nevertheless significant genetic disabilities and special characteristics as well. Only 1 in 10,000 males has hemophilia. How many have perfect pitch or a Lance Armstrong combination of lung capacity and muscle endurance? How many have certain immune system responses?.There seem to be many instances of longitudinal studies over a lifetime and a family. Terman studied geniuses.. retesting them for a lifetime. The Framingham study looked at physical well being over a period of time to try to see what factors mattered. Would an outsider know what these studies were for? We have genetically tagged bone marrow banks. In short, alien grad studuents might have all kinds of genetic projects to work on for when we qualify for admission to the galactic federation, if ever. Their medicare costs would be high for us short lived, easily disabled Earthlings. Blood banks and slaugherhouses would hardly provide all the needed combinations. It might also be that advanced civilizations have had controlled reproduction for millenia so as to weed out or accentuate certain characteristics. Look what we do with horses and cattle. Look how much we have done about new techniques for reproduction.. in vitro fertilization, artifical insemination, ova implantation. These would have been though to be total science fiction 100 years ago. We need a little more imagination folks and also more awareness of our limitations. After all being a primitive society whose major activity is tribal warfare hardly could be winning us many points in the neighorhood. I will be gone to China Sept. 4-12 to give a couple of lectures
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:29:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:57:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:17:17 -0300 >Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:43:42 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 14:23:21 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>To: >>>>ufoupdates.nul Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 >>>>10:47:18 -0700 Subject: Vallee On Abductions & Medical >>>>Procedures >><snip> >>>>In Vallee's view, the "interaction remembered by the >>>>witnesses," if it "was a real encounter," should be >>>>"treated at the symbolic level." It "does not," Vallee >>>>felt, "tell us anything about the extraterrestrial origin >>>>of the beings." The "idea that they must perform such >>>>experiments to enrich their race," Vallee argued, was >>>>"merely another contribution to the absurd character of >>>>the entire phenomenon" - absurd not in the sense of being >>>>non-existent, in Vallee's view, but in the sense of being >>>>something other than a series of physical occurrences >>>>involving technologically advanced extraterrestrial >>>>visitors. [Vallee, Dimensions, p. 269] >>><snip> >>>The point should be obvious: It is to inflict trauma and confusion, not to collect "scientific" data. >Good point in my estimation. But for what reasons? Maybe it's >time to conjecture as to why. >And I'm surprised the media or others haven't attempted to >exploit Vallee's "absurd" observation as other than what he >meant, that absurdity can be a part of the phenomenon, but not >the nature of the phenomenon. Hi Don: One possibility might be called 'absurdity as camouflage'. A French observer (Michele?) referred to UFO sightings as a 'festival of absurdity'. Without knowing who is really behind UFOs, why and so forth, could the more absurd displays simply be a way of masking origin and intent? Think of the fabled baby elephant that painted itself pink so it could escape from the zoo and wander about unmolested. Nobody would cop to having seen it. The story was fiction of course, but the absurdity had a purpose. If you know something 'wrong' will be seen from time to time, make it seem absurd, and thus psychologically invisible.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Photo Analysis Requested - Shell From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:41:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:58:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Photo Analysis Requested - Shell >From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:52:22 +0000 >Subject: Re: Photo Analysis Requested >Perhaps you could explain this one Bob, also as lens flare? I >don't think so..... >http://hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1273 You seem to be branding me as a debunker. I'm not. I'm just someone who knows more about optics than just about anyone on this list, and recognizes lens flare when I see it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 2 Steelman Saskatchewan Circle From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:26:45 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 20:01:35 -0400 Subject: Steelman Saskatchewan Circle Another formation in Saskatchewan, near Steelman, in the southeast corner 'hotspot' region. Found August 27 by pilot John Erickson (CCCRN Saskatchewan). Circle in wheat, 23 metres (76 feet) diameter, counterclockwise lay. Near locations of two similar circles in 2003. Currently under investigation by CCCRN Saskatchewan. Further details when available. 2005 crop circle formations to date: 3 + 4 OCP (Other Circular Phenomena) formations
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 2 High River Alberta Large Circle & Ring Formation From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:27:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 20:03:02 -0400 Subject: High River Alberta Large Circle & Ring Formation Near High River, just south of Calgary. Large circle with surrounding outer ring in barley. Found August 28. Circle said to be about 18 metres (60 feet) diameter with ring about 7.6 metres (25 feet) wide; total diameter about 49-55 metres (160- 180 feet), based on initial estimates. Some multi-directional lay in circle. Counterclockwise lay in ring. Land is gently hilly in the field. Barley is still quite green, may not be swathed for a couple weeks yet. The formation has already been visited by a number of people; no tracks reportedly seen initially, but there are now quite a few. The land manager (not owner) is calling it vandalism, so does not want any publicity. A few people reported cell phone problems inside formation. Some initial ground photos have been posted on the CCCRN web site. Further details when available. 2005 crop circle formations to date: 4 + 4 OCP (Other Circular Phenomena) formations OTHER UPDATES Swift Current, Saskatchewan The location of the previous two pea circles reported at Swift Current, Saskatchewan has been updated more accurately now to Aneroid, Saskatchewan, a few miles southeast of Swift Current. Still currently under investigation by CCCRN Saskatchewan. Further details when available. Steelman, Saskatchewan A couple aerial photos have now been posted to the CCCRN web
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 2 Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood - From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:02:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 20:05:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood - >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 01:46:54 -0400 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 06:00:06 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:04:28 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood >>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:52:57 -0700 >>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood ><snip> >>>>Fox television technicians prove this in the movie >>>>when they took Mike's footage and turned up the gain enough to >>>>show the faint outline of the mountain crest above the lights >>>>that place the lights over the Gila Bend Indian reservation and >>>>in front of the Estrella Mtns and not 60 to 80 miles away near >>>>Ajo. >>>I don't recall ever seeing the mountain crest. If this is >>>correct it certainly wold be important. I wonder how they could >>>get that anyway, considering that there was no backlighting of >>>the mountains. Are you talking about the TV show that responded >>>to the Discovery channel documentary analysis of the K video >>>using the analysis by cognitech? >>Yes, I knew this was done, but had not seen it until the movie. >>Cognitech had moved the lights in the video, that is monkeyed >>with the K video to prove their case. Krszysten recognized this >>when he saw the marker light on the left moved further left. >>I had noticed how they left out the lowest lights on the right. >This is a "red herring" argument by Mike Krzysten who didn't >understand the importance of the parallax effect resulting from >the fact that the small tree like bush that appeared to "move" >in the Cognitech test video was quite close to the camera as >compared to the background. Specifically, the small bush/tree >was about 50 ft from the camera as I recall while the hillside >that appears in silhouette was several hundred to a thousand >feet away and, of course, the lights of Phoenix were miles away >and the "Ufo lights" were many miles away. Hence a small motion >of just inches left or right by the video camera would create a >"parallax shift" that made it look as if the tree was not in the >correct location for exact duplication of the Krzysten video by >the Cognitech videographer. I estimated that the Cognitech test >camera (which may have been K's video camera) was probably >within a foot of the location where K's camera had been that >fateful night of March 13. Bruce, I don't know about Mike's argument, but mine argument that they did not use the lower lights on the right still holds. >Bottom line: Krzysten's argument or "complaint" against the >Cognitech comparison video, a complaint that was picked up by >the Fox TV commentator ("did someone alter the video?") is not >pertinent to the discussion of how far away the "UFO globes" >were. That argument relies on aligning the distant Phoenix city >lights with the daytime photography of the Estrella range, and >the city lights were many miles away (10-15?) so a camera >position shift of a foot woudn't make any difference. >>>Oddly enough, if it is true that the lights videotaped by >>>Krszysten were in front of the Estrella range, then they weren't >>>the lights videotaped by Kitei or by Rairdon because the >>>sighting lines from Kitei and Rairdon crossed the Estrella range >>>far south of where the Krzysten sighting line crossed the >>>Estrellas, (As closely as I could determine, the same is true >>>for Tom King's video sighting direction .) >>Remember, I was there with Tom King with my own video camera and >>the first light (the double light on the far left in the K >>video) lit up at 9:45 and appeared through binoculars to be on >>the side or front of the mountain, but we did not have our >>cameras so we ran down to the car to retrieve them. By the time >>we set up I found my camera battery had burned out so Tom did >>the taping. The double light re-lit in the same spot at about 10 >>pm just before the rest of the array appeared. I then looked >>through Tom's telescope at the lights and noticed they were >>perfectly round without a corona. I scanned for planes and >>evidence of flares and there was none in view. We had some >>moonlight too. >It has been long known (for 5 years or more) that Tom King >agrees with me (or I with him) that the lights were beyond the >Estrellas and very probably flares burning at high altitude. Tom King did this switcheroo because he was angry with the TV producers, Jim Diletosso, and Mike Tanner. His original take right after seeing the lights was correct "no way" , he said, "are these flares". He also remarked on how low the light on the far right was and it had to be below the Estrella Mtns (correct again) as I could still faintly see the top of the Estrellas in the moonlight with the help of binoculars and that top was above the light on the right. I confirmed this later with painstaking measurments, the measurments you erred on because you did not follow your own advise and use a 1:1 ratio on the day and night frames. >>I will have to write to Jim to send me the triangulation he did >>from the 3 or 4 camera positions as I do not have a copy. I >>believe he included the Rairdon sightline, but if differs from >>yours. >Yes. I recall that during the spring of 2003(?) Jim Dilettoso >said he was reviewing the whole case and would provide a >definitive analysis the following summer. Haven't heard any >results of that analysis. I will write to him now and ask again. >>I do know for sure these lights were not flares and did not >>match the characteristics of the flares mentioned in the FOIA >>docs I received from the Air National Guard nor did it match the >>number of flares they released on that night (which was close to >>60 LUU-2 magnesium flares). >Of course, most of them could have been (obviously were!) >dropped at lower altitudes. My suggestion is that they released >flares at high altitude on the way "home" to Davis-Monthan AFB >simply to get rid of the last unused flares. (According to press >reports, they the Maryland National Guard A-10's were supposed >to dump all flares before landing. Each plane carried 8. The >"Krzysten Arc" consisted of 8 lights. Could have been a single >plane dumping a "complete load." There was also a single light >appearing below and to the left of the arc. It could have been a >single from another plane. Then why were these lights perfectly round. Remember, we were looking through binoculars and telescope. I haven't seen round flares before or since. You weren't there and you are rejecting witness testimony from several sources. That's too bad and I considser tha bad investigation technique. >>The Air Guard tried to re-enact >>their flare drop in 2000 and the video shows obvious flares, not >>even the same color or shape and drifting sideways back and >>forth as a flare does when hanging from a chute. The orbs we saw >>were rock steady and stayed centered in the scope so I do not >>know what downward motion you observed, but we did not observe >>any at all. >So far as I know, only Tom King has taken video of flares from >long distance (25 miles or more) for comparison. He says his >video of the flares looks the same as the images in the March 13 >videos. Furthermore, he says he drove toward the January 1998 >lights and verified what they were by getting close enough to >see smoke. The January 1998 images of the "UFO" lights in the >Krzysten (K), Kitei (referred to as "L" in the article on my web >site), Rairdon and P (name confidential) videos all look like >the images in the March 13 videos. Tom King is prone to prevarication. He did that with "bubba" or do you not know the story of how they turned out to be a hoax and Tom knew it. I think you are a little gullible here Bruce when you accept King at his word when other videographers around the Phoenix area know better. >As far as dropping down is concerned, anyone with a frame >grabber and a copy of the Krzysten or Rairdon videos can verify >the dropping downward as illustrated in the Phoenix lights paper >at my web site. I can't. I think you are seeing camera motion of some sort because these lights stay centered in scopes for the duration when these scopes are solidly on a tripod on the ground. Sorry Bruce, but I have seen so much subsequent evidence and read many reports of these so-called flares moving upward and horizontally that I think your flare theory has died a slow death. Also, your explanation for the color change over distance doesn't hold water. I have seen white lights and flares over a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Waking Up To The Worst Nightmare From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 06:30:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 06:30:08 -0400 Subject: Waking Up To The Worst Nightmare Source: The Sidney Morning Herald - Sydney, Australia http://tinyurl.com/8q22k August 28, 2005 Waking Up To The Worst Nightmare The Sun-Herald It's the middle of the night. Suddenly you're aware that you're awake, but you can't move or make a sound. And then you feel a weight begin to press down on your chest and you feel you can't breathe. No, you're not receiving a visit by a supernatural evil being and you're not going mad. But you are experiencing what can be a frightening event that is estimated to happen to up to half of the population at least once in their life. Dr Andrew Ng, director of the Centre for Sleep Disorders and Respiratory Failure at St George Hospital, said sleep paralysis was perhaps the most common sleep disorder. But, Ng said, despite its prevalence, there had been little research. During a typical episode, the affected person awoke, and, even though fully conscious, could not move or speak, Ng said. It could last seconds or even minutes, although it often feels much longer. About three-quarters of the time, Ng said, it was accompanied by hallucinations that could include a feeling of floating, hearing noises such as people talking, laughing and humming, or even seeing things, such as another person in the room. As well, said Ng, a feeling of a "threatening presence" was common, and the sense that someone or something was pressing on the person's chest. Ng said that while sleep paralysis was not completely understood, there were explanations for the often frightening symptoms, which involved some of the physical characteristics of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep being carried on for a short time during wakefulness. During REM sleep there was extreme muscle weakness, which explained the lack of movement. It was also the time at which vivid and sometimes terrifying dreams occurred, explaining the hallucinations. The sense of an "evil presence" was, Ng said, in part due to a particular section of the brain being activated without reassurance from the other senses, such as sight and hearing, that the person was safe. The breathing difficulties and sense that someone or something is sitting on your chest could also be explained. During REM sleep, breathing was often shallow and the chest could not be expanded fully. Ng said many people did not experience sleep paralysis often. "Most people don't even realise it," Ng said. "They get really scared. But the next time it happens, they work it out." Stress, sleep deprivation, disrupted sleep patterns and lying on the back could all increase the likelihood of sleep paralysis. Shift workers and nurses reported a higher prevalence, Ng said. And, he said, most episodes occurred in the second half of the night when REM sleep was more prevalent. Often, he said, many people experienced it as a one-off, but those for whom it continued to cause problems should think about going to see a sleep physician or sleep psychologist. Dr Brendon Yee, a sleep and respiratory physician with the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital and the Woolcock Institute of Medical Research, said sleep paralysis could sometimes be associated with the sleep disorder narcolepsy. "You can also get sleep paralysis by itself," he said. "It can be a problem if it's recurrent and with other disorders." Yee said 1 to 2 per cent of the population might experience the symptoms regularly. "Multiple sleep paralysis episodes will occur rarely," he said. "Forty to 50 per cent of people claim to have had at least one episode of sleep paralysis." Symptoms of sleep paralysis . . . - Despite being conscious, you usually cannot move or speak - Sleep paralysis is usually accompanied by visual or auditory hallucinations - There is usually a feeling of a "threatening presence"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Identify Otherworldly Craft From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 06:38:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 06:38:18 -0400 Subject: Identify Otherworldly Craft Source: The News Sentinel - Fort Wayne, Indiana http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/living/12533105.htm Sep. 01, 2005 Identify Otherworldly Craft By Kathy Antoniotti Knight Ridder Newspapers (KRT) - In a moment of weakness, my friend Ron confided to the small group that years ago, he had spotted a UFO while he was flying an airplane. He regretted the admission the very second it came out of his mouth - and with good reason. The pilot suddenly became the focus of teasing by the skeptics at the gathering. But he never wavered from his story that he and the man sitting with him in the cockpit of the plane saw a disc-shaped orb outside the window that matched his speed for a few moments before racing away into the night sky. Now, Ron may be a nut, but he isn't a kook, and I believed his story - mainly because he believed it. However, he did realize it was a mistake to tell his tale in front of me. "Now, I'll probably read about it in the paper," he said with remorse. Sure enough, it just so happens that I received a book with instructions to make UFOs in the mail that very week. I took the incident as a sign I should indeed write about Ron's personal UFO encounter. UFO is an acronym for the term "unidentified flying object" and describes an object or light that defies explanation. People have reported seeing strange crafts that can hover at a standstill, take off at incredible speeds and quickly change direction. They generally believe they are seeing visiting spaceships from other planets inhabited by beings more technologically advanced than we are. Usually, investigators find there are ordinary explanations for the sightings. People have reported lots of things as UFOs, including missiles, birds, swarms of insects and weather balloons. Actually, investigators can explain all but a small number of UFO reports and most scientists don't think there is enough evidence to support the belief that these sightings are really objects coming from a distant place. In 1952, Project Blue Book was launched by the United States Air Force to determine whether any of the 12,000 UFO reports were a threat to national security. From 1966 to 1968, independent studies by scientists at the University of Colorado determined that there was no credible information to indicate the reports were true. Project Blue Book ended in 1969. But conjecture remains that life exists on other planets and that UFOs are the conveyance of choice by extraterrestrials. The idea has been the subject of many books, motion pictures and television programs. UFOs seem to spark our collective imagination. This hovering flying saucer may look otherworldly, but it is made with objects found on good old planet Earth. Directions came from the book "Every Kid Needs Things That Fly," by inventor and designer Ritchie Kinmont, of Ogden, Utah. The book also contains directions for jet packs and hot air balloons. It retails for $14.95 and is available online at Amazon.com. Supplies you will need: _18-inch Mylar, helium-filled balloon. _12 oz. Styrofoam bowl. _3 drinking straws. _6 flat washers. _Paper punch. _Transparent tape. Cut the bottom off a 12-ounce Styrofoam bowl and the edge around the top rim. Punch three equally spaced one-fourth inch holes around the smaller opening of the bowl for landing struts. Tape down the fill port (where the helium was inserted.) Tape a washer to opposite side from the port to make the balloon float in a level position. Tape the ring securely in the center of the balloon. Insert the straws through the holes as struts and tape to the balloon inside the ring. Trim the other ends at an angle so the craft sits evenly. Tape a washer to the underside of the balloon for ballast, if necessary. As an option, you can make lights with glow-in-the-dark dimensional fabric paint. ---
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 We Need More Loy Lawhons From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 06:52:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 06:52:33 -0400 Subject: We Need More Loy Lawhons Source: Fate Magazine http://www.fatemag.com/wordpress/?p=3D39 September 1st, 2005 We Need More Loy Lawhons I recently found the following message in my Inbox: Robert, Just a note to let you know that I will no longer be doing the About.com UFO site=85 Loy Lawhon is no longer the About.com UFOs/Aliens Guide. This gentleman wrote an interesting series of articles for About.com on Morris K. Jessup, Carlos Allende, and the Philadelphia Experiment entitled "The Astronomer and the Sailor." http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa071000a.htm He received an e-mail from someone who said that Carlos Allende had given one last interview before he died and that this "deathbed confession" had been published in a small Colorado magazine or newspaper. This source supplied the e-mail addresses of the people involved with the article. Loy wrote to them, but never got a reply. Intrigued by this so-called "deathbed confession," I e-mailed this About.com UFOs/Aliens Guide for the very first time and asked him cold if he would just give me those addresses so that I could follow up on that lead. At that time, I was involved with the History Channel's History's Mysteries television show on the Philadelphia Experiment and hoped to secure and use the material on that program. Loy Lawhon, a genuine researcher in every sense of the word, unselfishly surrendered his bombshell contact information without qualms or reservations. Using his leads, I eventually received a copy of the article, but not quite soon enough to use the material on "The True Story of the Philadelphia Experiment." We need more Loy Lawhons in this world. Men and women who put the pursuit of facts ahead of ego. Thanks to Loy Lawhon, you can read Carlos Allende's "Death Bed Statement" story published in THE NEWS of Colorado Centennial Country at http://windmill-slayer.tripod.com/aliascarlosallende Thank you again, Loy Lawhon, for everything. Be well, my friend. Yours in research, Robert A. Goerman Unconventional Investigator of Unconventional Phenomena
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Some Sex With Your Clone Perhaps? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:09:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:09:32 -0400 Subject: Some Sex With Your Clone Perhaps? Source: Wired News http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,68593,00.html?tw=rss.TOP Aug. 31, 2005 [Pictures & Links] Some Sex With Your Clone Perhaps? By Kristen Philipkoski Two amateur documentary makers say they've infiltrated the UFO cloning sect known as the Raelians and come away with candid videos they hope will further tarnish the group's reputation and even help shut it down. The Raelians are no strangers to bad press: Brigitte Boisselier, a Raelian bishop and biochemist, created a media furor in December 2002 when she announced the world's first successful cloning of a human. But her credibility, as well as the Raelians', was questioned when she never produced "baby Eve" or 12 other purported clones. Now, rare video footage of the group taken at one of its Las Vegas seminars has been spun into an as-yet-unreleased documentary that brings a fresh, critical slant to the Raelians -- replete with allegations that the sect uses sex as a recruitment tool, targeting people most likely to sympathize with its message that aliens populated the world: "Trekkies and whatnot," explained Abdullah Hashem, who taped the group in May as part of a broader, personal investigation of the group. "There are a lot of people (at these seminars) who believe in aliens, and all these beautiful women who will have sex with you even though you're a dork," he said. "And that's why most people were there." Billed as an expose, the video does little to shed light on the cloning controversy, according to its makers' own admissions. In a taped interview, Boisselier largely ducks questions about the existence of baby Eve, Hashem said. And Claude Vorilhon, the Raelian leader, says that he has never seen the baby, but that he supports Boisselier's efforts "morally." In fact, few people believe the cloning claims anyway, so there is little left to debunk. But the video does offer a little-seen view into the inner workings of the Raelians and the sway that Vorilhon -- aka Rael -- wields over his followers, according to people who have seen it. "I think what's disturbing about the Raelians is the total submission members have to Claude Vorilhon, and the fact that families have been estranged and marriages have been broken as a result of his influence," said Rick Ross, a cult expert based in Jersey City, New Jersey, who screened the documentary footage. In an interview with Wired News, the Raelians dismissed Hashem's claims as a big misunderstanding. Spokesman Sage Ali said the group has nothing to hide, and is not ashamed of anything the team may have recorded. Raelian theology states that aliens long ago visited the Earth and populated it through cloning. The religion also teaches that nudity and sexuality are pure and beautiful, and that if people were more in touch with their feminine sides, there would be less violence in the world. "We love sensuality," Ali said. "We're very proud of what goes on. We have nothing to hide. The footage taken at the seminar is all great as far as I'm concerned." Like most people, Hashem first heard of the Raelians as a result of the human cloning claims. But the group really caught his attention after he discovered that one of the Raelian commandments is to give 1 percent of your annual income to help Vorilhon deliver his message. Hashem says it was then that he suspected the group was a scam. He recruited longtime friend Joe McGowen to attend the Raelian seminar. The duo carried digital recorders and posed as hopeful inductees making a student film. What they really wanted was to tape incriminating activities of a group they suspected was coercing people to join the organization to get their money. "That's why I decided to make the documentary, to expose them," Hashem said. "I contacted Rael and all the Raelian bishops and told them they had a choice. I didn't have to release it if they would return all the money and give a public apology." The Raelians refused. After that, Hashem began holding talks with TV networks to license his footage, and he said he has already struck one deal that he hopes will see light as a news documentary as soon as this fall. Hashem isn't the first person to take on the Raelians and Clonaid, the company the group owned and operated that purportedly conducted the cloning. Florida attorney Bernard Siegal, who sued Rael, Boisselier and Clonaid for custody of the supposed cloned child, discovered that Clonaid had no address or board of directors. "I came away completely convinced it was a totally specious, fraudulent claim and publicity stunt, and that Clonaid was a sham," Siegel said. In the United States, the Food and Drug Administration has investigated the Raelians for their association with Clonaid and the company's cloning claim. But Vorilhon has never been convicted of a crime. Hashem hopes to give authorities more fodder. He claims his videos and other investigations prove the Raelians deserve to be shut down. It's unclear how damaging the video footage might be on its own, however. Although it reveals activities that some people might find hypocritical or distasteful, Hashem cannot point to anything illegal that he caught on tape. One "gotcha" moment shows the Raelian leader riveted by the erotic gyrations of Raelian dancers. Another shows him instructing seminar attendees not to gamble while visiting Las Vegas because it's against the teachings of the Elohim -- the aliens that populated Earth through cloning, according to Raelian doctrine. Later, Vorilhon is seen betting at a casino. Hypocrisy itself is not a crime, however. And, having weathered one media storm and survived, the Raelians could be hard to fluster. "That was the cutest thing," spokesman Ali said of the alleged gambling incident. "The biggest thing we want in life is to see all humans happy. A big part of our philosophy is to play, have fun." [Thanks to Stuart Miller of http://www.uforeview.net for the lead] ----- [Strange Days... Indeed interview with Abdullah Hashem and Joe McGowen at:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Would You Offer ET A Nice Cup Of Tea? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:16:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:16:45 -0400 Subject: Would You Offer ET A Nice Cup Of Tea? Source: The Lincolnshire Echo - Lincoln, Lincolnshire, UK http://tinyurl.com/8pky4 30 August 2005 Would You Offer ET A Nice Cup Of Tea? Eight out of 10 people believe that aliens exist - and some want to invite them in for a cup of tea. A new survey has show that Britain is a nation of believers when it comes to otherworldly sightings. The results have struck a chord with people in Lincolnshire, which has a high number of alleged UFO sightings. One in 15 people believe they have seen a UFO and half would like to experience life on another planet. Nine per cent of people would invite any aliens they saw in for a drink. The figures come from a survey by the Science Museum ahead of a new exhibit, The Science of Aliens. Horncastle-based astronomer Paul Money said the figure did not surprise him at all. "I think alien belief has become a lot more common in the last 10 years," he said. "It's partly due to much more science fiction exploring the possibility of aliens. "It's also down to more and more new planets being discovered outside our solar system. "At the moment the problem with exploration is that the galaxy is so big that it would take 100,000 years to get to some planets. "However, even here on earth we have mayflies that have a lifespan of a few hours and us who can have a lifespan of up to 100 years. "So I see no reason why some aliens couldn't have a lifespan measured in thousands of years. Then it would be possible for them to travel to earth." Documents show that in the last five years there have been seven sightings in Lincolnshire which cannot be easily dismissed or explained away. In November 2001 a resident of Gonerby, near Grantham, reported that his house started to shake and he lost power when a mysterious "glowing object" appeared in the sky above it. Another resident said they saw a "speeding light" which turned 180 degrees back on itself instantaneously. A Lincoln resident also wrote to the Echo saying that he had seen a UFO hovering over Lincoln Cathedral. The Ministry of Defence keeps records of UFO sightings, but does not investigate them. The new exhibition opens at the Science Museum in London in October. It explores the search for alien life and attempts to distinguish science from science fiction. Exhibition content manager Stephen Foulger said: "It's very interesting that, like me, so many people think aliens exist.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 LGM Festival Straight & Simple From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:23:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:23:08 -0400 Subject: LGM Festival Straight & Simple Source: The Kentucky New Era - Hopkinsville, Kentucky, USA http://tinyurl.com/99n7a Wednesday, August 31, 2005 Straight & Simple Making festival an annual event idea worth considering By Cecil Herndon Wonder how many of the 2,000-plus people who attended the various festivities associated with the recent Little Green Men Festival here are true believers in UFOs and visits to Earth aliens from outer space. The four-day festival, of course, was built around the 50th anniversary of the "Kelly Incident," when a Christian County family reported that a spacecraft landed near its home in the Kelly community and about a dozen space aliens besieged the family for several hours. Perhaps it doesn't really matter how many attendees believe, how many disbelievers and how many keep an open mind about the UFO phenomenon. The festival went over quite well for a first-time event, and the Chamber of Commerce might do well to make it an annual event. Even those who scoff at the bizarre tale of a Kelly farm family 50 years ago are open to any suggested reason to party and socialize. For some other festival attendees though, there is a serious side to the story. The Kelly story is either true, or it isn't. And even if the story is untrue, that doesn't necessarily mean that the people involved conspired to tell a bald-faced lie and never admitted as much. It isn't uncommon for people to think they see something that isn't there, or to believe what they see actually is something else. The latter possibility is cited in a variety of theories to explain the incident. According to one theory, the aliens actually were monkeys that escaped a circus wagon. Another theory, advanced by French researcher Renaud Leclet, holds that the reported alien creatures may well have been native eagle owls. The problem is, though, that two of the alleged adult witnesses - "Lucky" Sutton and a friend from Pennsylvania - were workers for a traveling carnival and likely familiar with monkeys. And one might suspect that country people would be familiar with owls. Truth is, no one still alive knows for sure what happened that night long ago. Surviving children of the alleged witnesses say they saw no aliens, but believe their elders' account of the events. In any case, it's a marvelous story that remains alive and well after 50 years. And making the Little Green Men Festival an annual event may be an idea worth considering. Now that the seed has been planted, careful nurturing eventually may produce a rich harvest of tourism dollars. As they say, it could be the start of something big! Cecil Herndon is a columnist for the Kentucky New Era. His column runs every Wednesday and Saturday. He can be reached by
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Archiving Effort To Save John Mack's Papers From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:32:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:32:16 -0400 Subject: Archiving Effort To Save John Mack's Papers Source: The John E Mack Institute http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/center/center_news.asp?id=3D259 Archiving Effort To Save John Mack's Papers --- April 12, 2005 As a prolific writer, Dr. John Mack left behind many papers when he passed away =96 some widely read, others barely known outside of professional circles. One of the initiatives of the John E. Mack Institute is the archiving of his works. We spoke with Will Bueche about this archiving effort, which has been underway for the past few months. "The challenge we face," Bueche explained, "is that most of these writings exist only on paper. The earliest are typewritten, and then much of the rest were written on computer systems which are no longer with us. Only a small amount of papers from more recent years exist as electronic documents." "So what I am engaged in is the process of scanning these physical papers through a professional scanning machine which simultaneously scans both the front and back of every page and is smart enough to figure out if there is writing on one or both sides, and then it turns that into a Adobe Acrobat portable document file, a pdf." "A pdf is the same sort of document that you get when you download a product brochure, for a new stereo for example. We're preserving the look and feel of the original paper, we're not simply reading the text. There is technology available that can attempt to discern the text, but it tends not to work very well =96 you need to proofread every line if you attempt that, and that would be millions of lines. It is easier to simply scan each paper as an image, as we are doing. This also enables us to capture handwritten notes, corrections scrawled in the margins for example. If you think of the scanner as a camera, essentially what we are doing is we are photographing every paper that John Mack ever wrote." Every paper? "As many as we can; we have a time limitation in that these materials have to be packed up eventually. We have some months to work in, yet it still feels like a race simply because of the sheer volume. John's papers were in three locations =96 the old PEER (Program for Extraordinary Experience Research) office, his home office, and his Cambridge Hospital office =96 and each would be a challenge unto itself." "Patricia Carr, John's longtime associate from the department of psychiatry, kept many of John's published papers carefully organized, so we've begun by scanning what she had already arranged in chronological order." "We started with the early 1960s =96 a few from the 1950s when he was getting his doctorate at Harvard =96 and we've nearly reached the 1990s." "But bear in mind I am referring only to his published papers. Once we've finished with his published papers, then we need to start again in the 1950s with his talks and some of his more notable exchanges of correspondence. The entire Harvard inquiry, for instance, produced reams of correspondence. I expect we may find some unpublished essays also. Even among the published works I am sometimes finding alternate drafts, which we are scanning as well." What sorts of essays are they? "There are many papers about psychiatry of course, but his sense of what it was to be a psychiatrist was expansive. From his papers from the seventies and eightes, I am getting a much stronger sense about how politically active he was during the nuclear arms race, how active psychiatrists and doctors were in social causes. I've been scanning papers written when doctors were speaking out boldly in defense of the human race. You don't see that so much anymore. It is an example we can learn from." "I'd also never read some of his earlier books, such as Vivienne, the one about a young girl's suicide. As I look back on that era I've begun to really see how careful he was about gathering biographical material, a skill which infused all of his work even up through his research into the lives of alien encounter experiencers." "I'm beginning to appreciate why he won the Pulitzer in biography (for his book on T.E Lawrence); being a good biographer isn't simply a matter of writing in an elegant style or telling a good story. Good biography, and good psychotherapy I expect, is about being meticulous in how you listen to another person, in how you attend to every nuance of what is being said to you. In this John was expert." Any chance that these materials may be published, or republished? "That's actually a question for the estate of John Mack, which is now responsible for his creative works. What we at JEMI [the John E. Mack Institute] are able to contribute to his legacy is an assurance that these materials will survive; I have every faith that John's sons and ex-wife will explore options regarding how best to make them available. We are in constant communication, and they actually provided some of the equipment we needed to accomplish this task." "Personally I'd love to see a volume of his collected works, pulling together his best essays =96 both published and unpublished ones =96 but would any publisher opt for a book with sections ranging from T.E. Lawrence to alien encounters? You can imagine it may take some time to figure these sorts of practical questions, and you must factor in the simple truth that his family is still coming to terms with their loss. It may be some time before they will be able to look to the future." "But I am certainly acting with the faith that these writings will be preserved for future generations to look at and learn from, in some way. " We will revisit the progress of this initiative again, soon. --- Update August 26, 2005 The scanning effort is coming to an end this week, and so we caught up with Will Bueche for a final report. How many papers did you ultimately scan? "More than 10,000. I passed the 10,000 mark a couple weeks ago, and it is now hovering at about 10,200, with perhaps a few strays left to do. That includes correspondence in addition to essays, of course. These last few days I literally was scanning the last papers while furniture was being carried out around me, and the materials I'd scanned earlier were being carted off." And you also scanned in press coverage that Dr Mack had received?. "I scanned about 900 newspaper and magazine clippings. The newspaper reviews of Prince of Our Disorder (his 1976 biography of T. E. Lawrence) made me sneeze, they were shedding so many paper particles. The last time they'd been taken out of storage was for the reprinted edition of Prince from Harvard University Press - but all they'd wanted them for was for critics' blurbs. But in those reviews there was also a lot of quality discussion about the differing views of T. E.'s role in shaping the modern Middle East. So there is good cause to save them." "Did I already mention =96 I've always felt that the press coverage that Dr. Mack received when he came out with his opinions about alien contact was an invaluable portrait of how our culture felt about aliens at the time he made his case. In fact I'd begun scanning in the press clippings of that era even before the family of John Mack stepped in and made the full- scale archving effort possible." How was the scanning of press clippings different from scanning the essays and letters? "The Mack family made it possible to scan in many essays quickly, using a scanner with a built-in paper feeder. But magazines or newspapers with illustrations required a great deal more care. First, I had to find the original materials, because most of the press clippings had been filed by Dr Mack's office as photocopies, which tended to be muddy. Whenever I came across the original magazines and newspapers I patiently used a traditional flatbed scanner to create new high-quality scans (see illustration below). So, future researchers looking at this electronic archive will see the press clippings in full color and fully legible quality. I hope that'll be nice for them!" You mentioned future researchers - can you say what will be happening to this archive? Where will it be? "I can't say yet. I have some idea, but I can't say yet because the estate is still in talks. I believe that Dr Mack's published papers will be relatively easy for researchers to obtain, and possibly his drafts as well, but I am not sure what will be happening to the correspondence." "Obviously there is a great deal of scholarly interest in correspondence, particularly Dr Mack's exchanges with various relatives and associates of T. E. Lawrence. I scanned every bit of it that I could find, including many Air Mail letters written on tissue-thin blue papers that were popular in the UK in the 1960s. Very difficult to scan blue paper by the way. But... there may be legal considerations that would affect whether that sort of material could become part of a library." "Letters are obviously a valuable part of history, and if you walk into any book shop you'll see the collected letters of Freud or Jung or James, etc., but traditionally some history has to flow by before that becomes available to the public. In the future, letters serve as a portrait of an era. But if made available too soon, they lack perspective." "In fact we didn't even scan the 10,000 letters that Dr Mack received from self-described 'experiencers' of alien contact. It is simply too current, too sensitive, to scan now." "What we did scan in =96 planning for the future =96 were the professional exchanges, the correspondence exchanged with colleagues. Opinions back and forth from Mack and his peers about whether alien encounters are real, and who was being most stubborn in defending their opinions. But again, those exchanges will likely have to be kept private for a generation or so." "Really I don't know such stuff, I just do scans." Thanks for the update. Any last comments about this archive? "I want to mention that recently I learned that Google, the search engine company, is engaged in a new process related to scanning books that is not dissimilar from what I was doing. Google is going into a few key libraries and is attempting to scan the contents of every book. It is an amazing effort, a humanitarian effort that everyone should support." "What will happen is that you will someday be able to search for a phrase and their service will instantly show you every book in which that phrase appears. The beta version of their project, known as Google Print, returns the single page on which the phrase appears, and then you have to go track down the actual book at a book store or at a library or whever. They aren't selling the scans, so it is not exactly like searching the internet, but is it similar. It's actually a lot like Amazon.com's 'Search Inside the Book' feature, except whereas Amazon only lets you search inside popular books, Google intends to scan every book ever made." "The ability to search books from any laptop will advance our civilization in dramatic ways; it will help eliminate redundancy, of people wasting time rediscovering things that had already been noted by others. We'll be able to take what is already known and take it to the next level." "I can't imagine how many years it will take to scan every book ever written, but if my experience with just one author's archive is any indication, it might take some time." "I want to encourage anyone who hears about Google's effort to support it. Google is taking an awful risk in the face of increasingly draconian copyright laws. Google has taken some flak from publishers who do not understand that Google is not stealing their books. John Mack's books don't appear to be part of this Google archive yet, but I hope that eventually the publishers will let them be." "Google is engaged in a humanitarian effort that is, quite frankly, what the Library of Congress should have been doing. Preserving information and making it accessible."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 UFOs Are A Good Thing They Just Get Bad Press From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:39:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:39:59 -0400 Subject: UFOs Are A Good Thing They Just Get Bad Press Source: The Virginian Pilot - Hampton Roads, Virginia http://tinyurl.com/d9u8u August 31, 2005 UFOs Are A Good Thing They Just Get Bad Press It must have been a slow news day. ABC's television affiliate in Seattle recently interviewed a local man who says you can see aliens zipping above the Earth any night of the week. "Myself and thousands of friends have been watching it since 1968," Ted Anderson told KOMO-TV. "Motherships come from other worlds to drop off their planetary ships to come to Earth." Anderson clained there is a UFO freeway 50 miles above the earth that he calls the UFO Freeway Portal Location. It's just south of the Big Dipper and can be seen with the naked eye. He believes alien ships are standing guard, protecting us from hostile aliens. "This is a security force created by some super being organization or civilization," he told the televison station. "These red ships, they're there constantly." Anderson has created two Power Point presentations to help other UFO enthusiasts spot the UFO portal. Anderson invited the station's viewers to send him an email for more information:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Communicating With UFOs 'No Longer Sci-Fi' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:49:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:49:11 -0400 Subject: Communicating With UFOs 'No Longer Sci-Fi' Source: The Irish Independent - Dublin, Eire http://tinyurl.com/bsgjg 29th August, 2005 Communicating With UFOs 'Is No Longer Stuff Of Science Fiction' by Marese McDonagh Extra terrestrials are out there and it is possible to communicate with them, delegates attending the second annual Irish UFO conference heard. Scientist and astronomer Eamonn Ansbro, who has a purpose-built observatory at his home in Kingsland, Co Roscommon, told the weekend conference in Carrick-on-Shannon, Co Leitrim of a number of close encounters of an extraordinary nature that he had investigated or witnessed. A former meteorologist with the British Ministry of Defence who "got into UFOs by accident", Mr Ansbro told of one incident in February 1998 when he was one of a group of six people in a remote valley in Kerry who witnessed what they believe was a UFO. Mr Ansbro, who believes communication with extra terrestrial life is possible through mental focus or "remote viewing", said that one of the group asked this object to do a figure of eight in the sky which it did. There were no cameras at the scene. Betty Meyler, founder of the UFO Society of Ireland, said UFO sightings had become so common that those who believed in a parallel world were less likely than ever before to be ridiculed. "Of course there are people who ask me am I making sandwiches for the little green men but many people are genuinely interested in recent sightings," she said. Ms Meyler, also from Co Roscommon, said she has photographic evidence of two recent UFO sightings at Lough Key near Boyle, an area regarded as a 'UFO hotspot'. She said she has received literally hundreds of reports from around the country of UFO sightings some dating back 20, 30 or 40 years when people would have been afraid to tell of their experiences. "At another time I probably would have been burned at the stake or locked up but this is the age of Aquarius and of enlightenment and people are more open to ideas," she said. UFOs manifest themselves as unexplained lights that move very fast in an erratic fashion often changing direction abruptly, according to the UFO society. While inviting people from around the country to report any sightings to her, Ms Meyler also cautioned that in the past what people believed were UFOs turned out to be the planet Venus or disco laser lights. Ms Meyler believes that the time is coming when UFOs and extra terrestrial beings will be obvious to all humans. "We are not ready just yet. People are too scared but I believe they are
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Body Snatchers UK Review From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:55:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:55:25 -0400 Subject: Body Snatchers UK Review Source: Computer Crowsnest.Com http://www.computercrowsnest.com/articles/books/2005/nz8535.php 01/09/2005 Body Snatchers In the Desert by Nick Redfern Reviewer: Geoff Willmetts Pub: Paraview Pocket Books/Simon and Schuster. 248 page enlarged paperback. Price: $14.00 (US), $19.00 (CAN). ISBN: 0-7434-9753-8. nb: US titles may only be available from Amazon US, and UK titles from Amazon UK. check out website: www.simonsays.com and for an interview with the author, try: http://tinyurl.com/e48wx Despite the title and even the icky cover that is more reminiscent of the 70s books on the arcane or weird material, the content is much more important. The subject is Roswell 1947. Author Redfern, during the promotion of another UFO book several years back, was contacted by an old lady with an interesting story about White Sands where she worked in the 40s. Over a longer period, he met some other people who were involved. None of them gave identical stories but all built up to build the evidence presented here. Forget what you've read about a flying saucer with alien bodies scattered around the Roswell farms. What really happened is a little more insidious. In a similar manner to the Paperclip project where the Americans hired ex-Nazi German scientists for their rocket expertise, the same was also done with Japanese scientists. They were working on high altitude balloons and specifically with the effects on the human body. Considering they were also planning to use nuclear fuel, the same applied to radiation. Their guinea pigs weren't animals but humans, mostly adult progeria sufferers, physically or mentally defective people procured from hospitals or other such places in Japan. The USAF also took some of these people as guinea pigs themselves. This was also two years before a United Nations ruling about using people in such a way without consent. Knowing a ruling was going to happen, there was a necessity to get these tests done early and there were some mistakes and crashes around White Sands and Roswell. The principle crafts were high altitude balloons carrying saucer-shaped gondolas with small crew or pilots. Any of this ringing particular alarm bells? If you're looking for real conspiracy theory what better way to disguise what was really going on down at White Sands than use the popular belief that alien spaceships had crashed and the bodies secured in a secret base than the more politically damning that the USAF had been using human guinea pigs and killing them. None of them survived by the way, all ending on the autopsy table. There is even a cross-reference to that alien autopsy film and those unusual eye shades - they were around at the time, a rather uncomfortable lens to protect the eye from nuclear flash. Most of the records were destroyed although Redfern shows some copies of documents in the appendix that lends some credibility to the story. Considering a couple of Redfern's previous books deals with the subject of UFOs, this is quite a contrast to lay at the American feet. The USAF can give credible deniability which after 80 years is hardly surprising as they would have had plenty of time to destroy the records. Checking our Redfern, I did come across a rather lengthy interview which you should be able to link into above and it does cover one particular point I was concerned about, namely would solving Roswell explain all other UFO sightings as being from a similar source? Redfern thinks not but equally does not commit himself to thinking aliens have landed neither. His belief is that this book will address other concerns and have other evidence looked at in a new light rather than totally disrupt other serious research on the subject. I came away from this book feeling that he might have a point. I mean, America recruited German scientists in their 'national interest' as a well-known fact then it stands to think that the same would be done with Japanese scientists as well. Seeing the little grey aliens as no more than little deformed Japanese guinea pigs isn't that far removed in such thinking. Presuming the national papers rather than the trash-flash mags like the Enquirer getting their hands on this book, then there is going to be a certain amount of shit likely to hit the fan. If that happens, who knows what else might turn up. I'm not prone to really pushing that many books about UFOs and I certainly think the title and cover don't really put this subject into the right light - maybe a change for the UK edition? - but if you want a different take on what happened at White Sands and Roswell, then this book will certainly interest you. I'm hoping it should also alarm our American cousins as to what does go on covertly in their name. It's about time what really went on around the Roswell area was finally put to rest
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood - From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 00:06:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 09:36:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood - >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:02:49 -0700 >Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 01:46:54 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights Documentary In Hollywood <snip> >>It has been long known (for 5 years or more) that Tom King >>agrees with me (or I with him) that the lights were beyond the >>Estrellas and very probably flares burning at high altitude. >Tom King did this switcheroo because he was angry with the TV >producers, Jim Diletosso, and Mike Tanner. His original take >right after seeing the lights was correct "no way" , he said, >"are these flares". He also remarked on how low the light on the >far right was and it had to be below the Estrella Mtns (correct >again) as I could still faintly see the top of the Estrellas in >the moonlight with the help of binoculars and that top was above >the light on the right. I confirmed this later with painstaking >measurments, the measurments you erred on because you did not >follow your own advise and use a 1:1 ratio on the day and night >frames. I used your data to conclude that you and Tom were looking over "Montezuma's Head", which placed your sighting line south the place where Krzysten's sighting line crossed the Estrellas. >>>I will have to write to Jim to send me the triangulation he did >>>from the 3 or 4 camera positions as I do not have a copy. I >>>believe he included the Rairdon sightline, but if differs from >>>yours. >>Yes. I recall that during the spring of 2003(?) Jim Dilettoso >>said he was reviewing the whole case and would provide a >>definitive analysis the following summer. Haven't heard any >>results of that analysis. >I will write to him now and ask again. >>>I do know for sure these lights were not flares and did not >>>match the characteristics of the flares mentioned in the FOIA >>>docs I received from the Air National Guard nor did it match the >>>number of flares they released on that night (which was close to >>>60 LUU-2 magnesium flares). Well, the could have release 51 flares at greater distances and or lower altitudes before 10 PM. That would have left 9 flares to be dropped at the highter altitutude. The January 1998 "globe" videos I analyzed also showed high altitude. >>Of course, most of them could have been (obviously were!) > >>dropped at lower altitudes. My suggestion is that they released >>flares at high altitude on the way "home" to Davis-Monthan AFB >>simply to get rid of the last unused flares. (According to press >>reports, they the Maryland National Guard A-10's were supposed >>to dump all flares before landing. Each plane carried 8. The >>"Krzysten Arc" consisted of 8 lights. Could have been a single >>plane dumping a "complete load." There was also a single light >>appearing below and to the left of the arc. It could have been a >>single from another plane. >Then why were these lights perfectly round. Remember, we were >ooking through binoculars and telescope. I haven't seen round >lares before or since. You weren't there and you are rejecting >witness testimony from several sources. That's too bad and I >considser tha bad investigation technique. I have used video image analysis rather than witness testimony to determine the sighting directions, although, of course, the witness testimony agreed with the sghting directions in the videos. >>The Air Guard tried to re-enact >>their flare drop in 2000 and the video shows obvious flares, not >>even the same color or shape and drifting sideways back and >>forth as a flare does when hanging from a chute. The orbs we saw >>were rock steady and stayed centered in the scope so I do not >>know what downward motion you observed, but we did not observe >>any at all. >>So far as I know, only Tom King has taken video of flares from >>long distance (25 miles or more) for comparison. He says his >>video of the flares looks the same as the images in the March 13 >>videos. Furthermore, he says he drove toward the January 1998 >>lights and verified what they were by getting close enough to >>see smoke. The January 1998 images of the "UFO" lights in the >>Krzysten (K), Kitei (referred to as "L" in the article on my web >>site), Rairdon and P (name confidential) videos all look like >>the images in the March 13 videos. >Tom King is prone to prevarication. He did that with "bubba" or >do you not know the story of how they turned out to be a hoax >and Tom knew it. I think you are a little gullible here Bruce >when you accept King at his word when other videographers around >the Phoenix area know better. What other videographers? Rairdon, Kitei and Krzysten who collectively took the 10 PM 'UFO' footage? It was their videos which provided the sighting directions. >>As far as dropping down is concerned, anyone with a frame >>grabber and a copy of the Krzysten or Rairdon videos can verify >>the dropping downward as illustrated in the Phoenix lights paper >>at my web site. >I can't. I think you are seeing camera motion of some sort >because these lights stay centered in scopes for the duration >when these scopes are solidly on a tripod on the ground. I used ground lights as reference points. >Sorry Bruce, but I have seen so much subsequent evidence and >read many reports of these so-called flares moving upward and >horizontally that I think your flare theory has died a slow >death. Also, your explanation for the color change over distance >doesn't hold water. I have seen white lights and flares over a >large distance (50 to 60 miles) and they do not turn into a pure >amber color. You just won't convince me with your logic. I guess we'll just have to disagree until some "independent agency" reviews the whole matter.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Belzer's Connections On Sci-Fi From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:32:39 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 09:33:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Belzer's Connections On Sci-Fi >From: Jason Gammon <LuckyHoodoo.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:10:06 EDT >Subject: Belzer's Connections On Sci-Fi >Just watched a re-run of Belzer's Connections on Sci-fi and was >wondering if Stanton or anybody else could give their thoughts >on the program. All of us, including Kark Pflock and Linda Howe, who were there and Jim Marrs who was on the panel thought it was absolutely terrible. Ice-T and Belzer were OK, but Garafola and Franken obviously hadn't paid any attention to the material that was provided. It was edited down and not broadcast for at least a year. Big studio, lots of people. Really bad show. Bad setup with Karl and I far from the panel, and Belzer often between us and the panel.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Franck Boitte <Franckboitte.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 03:42:53 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:00:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:29:45 -0700 >Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >A French observer (Michele?) referred to UFO sightings as a >festival of absurdity'. Without knowing who is really behind >UFOs, why and so forth, could the more absurd displays simply be >a way of masking origin and intent? A member of the informal "Invisible College" and a close friend of Vall=E9e, Aim=E9 MICHEL deceased Dec. 1992) was one of the first french ufologists. The citation you quote he made in his book "Flying Saucers and the Straight Line Mystery", first published in the USA in 1954. His main theory that UFOs observationbs or reports for a given day were disposed along straight "lines" or "corridors" over a given country (namely France) was diversely criticized by D. Menzel, J. Vallee, J. Scornaux and definitely proved erroneus at
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Body identified As 'Alien' Lobbyist In Nevada From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 06:09:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:05:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Body identified As 'Alien' Lobbyist In Nevada >From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:20:27 -0400 >Subject: Body identified As 'Alien' Lobbyist In Nevada >Source: The Las Vegas Sun >http://tinyurl.com/dyxdv July 19 2005 >Body identified As 'Alien' Lobbyist In Nevada >MOUND HOUSE, Nev. (AP) - A decomposing body found along the >Carson River has been identified as a one-time Nevada >legislative lobbyist who claimed to represent space aliens and >campaigned for southern Nevada's "Extraterrestrial Highway." >The body of David Venus Solomon, 52, a self-proclaimed alien >known as Ambassador Merlyn Merlin II, was found late last week, >said Lyon County Sheriff's Department investigator Cherie Rye. >According to the Washoe County Coroner's Office, identification >was made by fingerprints. Deputy Coroner Steve Finnell said the >cause of death was undetermined. >"The skull was intact and there were no signs of trauma from >what we could tell," he said. He estimated the body had been >there at least a month. >Investigators were unable to locate the car in which Solomon >lived, a 1976 brown and white Monte Carlo. >Friend Pat Travis, owner of the Little A'le'Inn in Rachel, >Nev., said the man she knew as Merlin never went anywhere >without his car. >Travis and Merlin met during the campaign to have State Route 375's name changed to "The Extraterrestrial Highway." Rachel is the only community along the route in the desert about 95 miles north of Las Vegas. >In Carson City, Merlin was a well-known character at the >Legislature from 1995 until 1999, when he was barred from the >grounds. During the 1999 session, a female employee cleaning a >restroom in the Nevada Legislature reported Merlin had exposed >himself to her. >Assemblyman Bob Price, D-North Las Vegas, a friend of Merlin's, >aid the incident was blown out of proportion. <snip> Yee-IKES! Steve. This is so sad in so many ways. I wonder what it is about UFOs that draws in characters like Alien Ambassador Merlyn. (Its too late now, to ask if the Aliens could not provide their ambassador better transportation.) In a strange way, Merlyn reminds me of 'Emperor Norton' from San Francisco about a century ago. Norton printed his own currency (worthless of course) which was nevertheless accepted by local restaurants. Some out of kindness, others because he was a genuine draw... nearly free entertainment.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Fact Or Fiction 'Amazing Video' From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:20:41 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:18:55 -0400 Subject: Fact Or Fiction 'Amazing Video' Greetings, A few days ago, a friend of one of the members of the Ufologyinuk List asked him to look at a video at the web-links below. The video appears to show a craft (resembling a stealth aircraft) being shot down by rockets in London over the Houses of Parliament. The relevant video is on the webpage below, with the caption "Fact or Fiction, Amazing Video, anyone know if this is real? If so, contact us". http://youngnationalist.com/media.htm Specifically, the video is at this link: http://youngnationalist.com/video/closeairstrike.wmv Since the video has been raised on at least one UFO forum and could well appear on others (if it hasn't already), I thought it worth mentioning that this video was discussed on the Ufologyinuk List by Eric Adams, Nigel Wright, Robert Rosamund and others in various emails at the link below (with the thread title "Probable Hoax Footage?"): http://tinyurl.com/7og83 Opinions on the video varied from "quite intriguing" and "fascinating without doubt", to "basic 'shoot 'em up' digitally blended rubbish". An apparent consensus was reached within a few hours as to the nature of the video as a result of contributions from several members of Ufologyinuk. Details of that consensus are summarised below, see below. Some of you may want to view the video first before scrolling down. <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> <spoiler below> The video seems to have been produced and put on the Internet by a company in the UK called, Maverick Media. The footage was directed by Ben Wheatley and entitled, Act of War, and/or, The Jefferson Parliament Bomber Footage. It was filmed and put on the Internet as part of the viral marketing campaign for a new computer game (Atari's "Act Of War: Direct Action"). Maverick Media has a website at the link below. The webpage on that website titled Viral has a page for Act Of War. http://www.maverickmedia.co.uk/ The 'News' page on that website includes the following: --- 17/FEB/05 How safe are we? This blockbuster-style viral shocker, directed by Ben Wheatley and produced by Liz Martin, went live today to amazed audiences worldwide... Were you there? Did you see anything? See the full story on www.how-safe-are-we.com --- If you go to the viral marketing website below (mentioned on Maverick Media's website), and scroll down to number 20 in the current viral marketing chart on that page, there appears to be a reference to the relevant video: http://www.viralchart.com/submit.php For more detail of the relevant advertising campaign, see: http://www.adverblog.com/archives/001305.htm http://tinyurl.com/8vk6p Personally, I enjoyed the clip (which resembles a recent episode in the new series of Dr Who) and may well end up buying the game since, for some reason, it does not appear in my current collection of Real Time Strategy games. Interestingly, the relevant viral ad seems to have been launched (and referred to on various advertising websites) in about mid- February 2005. I don't recall seeing a link for it on any UFO sites until Eric Adams' email (i.e. 30 August 2005). By the way, the chaps at Maverick Media found the relevant e-mails on the Ufologyinuk List to be "very interesting".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:32:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Randle >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:39:00 -1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:53:44 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:32:09 -1000 >>>Subject: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>Those interested can find out more about the two fall >>>exopolitics courses at: >>>http://www.exopolitics.org/Courses.htm >>>Finally, I believe that those who thoroughly familiarize with >>>the various issues concerning 'citizen diplomacy with >>>extraterrestrials' or "political management of the ET Presence" >>>through courses similar to those I'm conducting, will be best >>>placed to deal with the challenges that lie ahead as we move >>>into an era of open disclosure of visiting extraterrestrial >>>races. >>As far as us having the answers to the mystery of UFOs, most of >>us live in a world of uncertainty. You do not, it appears. >My communications here on UFO UpDates with other researchers >here has been very helpful since I've quickly learned what >standards and methods they use and can refine my own in >response. I don't claim to have certainty when it comes to >answers about the UFO phenomenon but am confident that my >research method is more appropriate than what is used by many of >the veteran researchers. I think the way in which veteran UFO >researchers routinely dismiss whistleblower and contactee data >is major impediment to better understanding the UFO phenomenon. >The general public are seeking answers to the ETH that the >present "scientifically rigorous method" of UFO research fails >to address. This is why UFO research is at a cross roads and >alternative ways of conceptualizing this phenomenon such as >Exopolitics are becoming more popular. Dr. Salla, List, All See, here is the problem in a nutshell. Dr. Salla believes that we veteran UFO researchers routinely dismiss the alleged whistle-blower and contactee data... and implies that we haven't bothered with investigation. But there are reasons for our dismissing of these testimonies. For example, I actually saw George van Tassel when he came to Denver in the mid-1960s. He was talking about life on Mars, as in intelligent life that was spreading across the surface at that time - not the theoretical construct that has been adopted with the Face on Mars controversy. He, of course, never said anything directly against George Adamski, other than you couldn't trust anything those Venusians said. Of course we now know that Venus is much too hot to support life, unless, of course, we want to reject the now accepted science. The contactees, whether Van Tassel or Adamski, or Dan Fry, or a platoon of others, were never able to offer any sort of independent evidence that their tales of travel through the Solar System were true - they never got to take pictures, never managed to grab an artifact, never learned anything that was new and different to our science. Not once did any of them suggest that the Solar System extended out beyond Pluto into the Kuiper Belt or the Oort Cloud, that objects larger than Pluto would be found out there, causing our scientists to argue about the definition of a planet. Not once did any of the contactees, who claimed cordial relations with these space brother offer anything that would be useful to our science or our planet, other than the sort of thing you might read in science fiction. Their predictions never came true and it has been demonstrated, time and again that the contactees were making it up. But, of course, none of we 'veteran UFO researchers' have taken the time to investigate these claims. We just dismiss them out of hand. And now we come to the whistleblowers. I'll deal with Cliff Stone here simply because I have known him for fifteen years, been to his house in Roswell and watched his tale expand from that of an informed (meaning that he knew a lot about UFOs) researcher to that of a participant in the cover-up with the sort of inside knowledge that would make anyone happy. I have mentioned on this list, a number of times, the games that Stone played the very first day I met him and what these games told me about his character. I listened to his tales of people coming in the night to drag him from his home, take him to secret, dark locations and subject him to grueling interrogations. Of course, he had no good explanation for why this was happening, other than he was interested in UFOs and they were quizzing him about what he might know. They warned him against revealing information, but he ignored those warnings (until recently when we asked pointed and specific questions) and was told that he might be killed. He never explained why these people took him out to warn him rather than just shoot him in the head and be done with it. Of course, back then he wasn't claiming to be an insider who was privy to every important UFO secret from the Kecksburg UFO crash to the alien autopsy film that he saw in 1969. He said that he saw the Kecksburg object trucked away until challenged and changed the story to he just knew about it. He saw the alien autopsy film from inside the building where the obviously classified breifing was being shown to others - a really ridiculous scenario. So, yes, I met with him, interviewed him, credited him with his research because I could verify that, but then his tales took on a new life placing him in the middle of every important UFO event in the last fifty years and that was just too much. I have also mentioned his tales of crawling through the wire at the base camps in Vietnam to engage the enemy - but such tales of clandestine and unauthorized missions are universally rejected because none of them have ever been proven to be true. Single soldiers did not crawl off into the jungle to engage in personal combat with the enemy. Yes, I understand that we can say all these things, that Stan can offer the evidence that Bob Lazar is not who he claims to be and that his record does not balance with the facts, but there are those who wish to believe so badly that they are willing to ignore the flaws in these wild tales so that they can believe. They will over- look the inconsistencies and the lack of any evidence, giving the government the power to literally wipe out all the evidence. Yet, when it comes time to put up, they offer excuses. Stone just won't tell us about the new Moon Dust because he fears for his family. Why now and not ten years ago when he began shooting off his mouth? But please, don't say that we routinely dismiss these claims because that simply is not true. We all have looked at them in the past. A lot of time and effort has been expended in checking them out. Philip Corso added nothing to our knowledge of the Roswell case. He gave us no evidence, couldn't tell us where to look for the secret documents, had huge holes in his story that should have told any rational investigator that Corso was less than honest, and yet, here we are, still arguing the merits (and I use that word advisedly) of his tales. Nevermind that he couldn't even get some of the basic facts right or that he believed Frank Kaufmann who has been proven to be another of the frauds. So we might not agree with you, and some of us have been around this field a lot longer, but we have looked at all these people and we find their tales wanting because of the lack of evidence, lack of corroboration and because they have been caught spinning
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 Re: Salla & Stone - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:28:25 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:43:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Salla & Stone - Randle >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 06:29:20 -1000 >Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 07:09:00 EDT >>Subject: Salla & Stone [was: An Open Question To The List] >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:54:58 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: An Open Question To The List >>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:58:54 -0300 >>>>Subject: Re: An Open Question To The List <snip> >>Dr. Salla, List, All... >>Since you have again brought up the name of Cliff Stone, I would >>like to point out that you never answered my response to your >>allegations a couple of weeks ago. Now, I understand that you >>have been busy with your house guest and his lecture and thought >>you might have missed my last post. With Errol's kind >>permission, I will re-submit it here. I think it points out why >>there are many of us who do not buy into the great document >>disappearance and why we have asked the tough questions of these >>alleged whistleblowers. >>So, returning to the Cliff Stone threat and his claims of having >>seen this guidebook to the ETs, and to some of his other claims, >>I post: >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 07:18:45 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Philip Corso & NSC >>>>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 14:03:23 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: Philip Corso & NSC >>>>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 17:01:17 +0100 >>>>>Subject: Re: Phillip Corso & NSC >><snip> >>>>>Is someone who rants on and on about how the military go around >>>>>altering a person's academic credentials, revising and deleting >>>>>his personal life history as it suits them and, presumably, >>>>>destroying each and every record of this victim's achievements >>>>>(to say nothing of erasing the memories of all the academics >>>>>& colleagues who taught, or who worked with, the said victim), >>>>>all because the said person was on the verge of becoming a >>>>>'whistleblower', worth taking seriously? >>>>>Anyone who accepts that such things are possible can side with >>>>>Michael Salla. Anyone who does not (i.e. I presume, at least 99 >>>>>per cent of this List) will side with Brad Sparks. I know which >>>>>side I'm on. >>>>>CDA >>>>Dr. Salla is worth taking seriously, as Brad, Kevin, Stan Friedman, >>>>Josh Goldstein, Dick Hall, myself and others have done at various >>>>times, because its important to set the record straight for those who >>>>might wander by, here or elsewhere, and just get Dr. Salla's side of >>>>the story. He is also worth taking seriously simply because he is one >>>>of the main proponents of exopolitics, and its important for ufology >>>>to make a very clear, and public, distinction between the fringes - >>>>like exopolitics - and the serious study of the UFO phenomenon, just >>>>as it was important to make the distinction, years ago, between >>>>the contactees and the serious study of the UFO phenomenon. >>>>Kudos to Brad and Kevin for their recent efforts. ><snip> >>>Paul Kimball cites researchers such as Brad Sparks, Kevin >>>Randall, Stanton Friedman, Josh Goldstein, Richard Hall and >>>himself as exemplary models for systematically defining the >>>parameters of the "Serious Study of the UFO phenomenon" in terms >>>of a 'scientific method' for studying UFO sightings, the >>>abduction phenomenon, FOIA documents, etc. It's worth pointing >>>out that aside from Stanton Friedman, none of these gentlemen >>>are scientists that enable them to authoritatively establish the >>>scientific method as championed as the exemplary model for UFO >>>research. In Stanton's case while he worked as nuclear >>>physicist, he doesn't have a PhD nor does he have a record of >>>peer reviewed publications in scientific journals. While Kevin >>>Randall does have a PhD, it's in psychology, not any of the >>>physical sciences cited as the model for the serious study of >>>the UFO phenomenon. Also, I am not aware of Dr Randall having >>>published psychology papers in peer reviewed psychology journals >>>or practiced clinical psychology. >>First, I would like to point out that I take trouble to make >>sure that I spell the names of those I address correctly. Sure, >>I sometimes screw it up, but not after I have had multiple >>exchanges with that individual. >>I not sure what Dr. Salla is implying here. That we who have >>advanced degrees should be ignored in favor of those who have >>high school diplomas? That somehow, because two of my advanced >>degrees are in psychology, I missed the classes on physical >>science. >>My undergraduate work was in anthropology, or more specifically, >>the high civilizations of Mesoamerica and the Central Andes with >>an emphasis on settlement patterns. I studied astronomy under >>Dr. James van Allen (yeah the radiation belt guy) but to be >>fair, he taught but a single class and was the chairman of the >>department. Most of the classes were taught by others. I have >>had, however, the opportunity to engage him in conversations >>about UFOs on a number of ocassions. >>I have been involved in a couple of psychology experiments and >>have published in peer reviewed journals. The one known to >>nearly everyone on this list is "Message in a Bottle Confounds >>in Deciphering the Ramey Memo from the Roswell Case", with Jim >>Houran. >>I will also point out that I have no desire to be a clinician >>and that many who have degrees in psychology use them in other >>arenas from research to industrial, and sports psychology. >>Maybe he'd like to trot out that old chestnut that I write >>science fiction so that my research should be suspect: though >>about half the members of the Science Fiction Writers of America >>are working scientists and no one from those other disciplines >>seemed concerned about it. >>But mostly, I have noticed that I have seen no response to my >>suggestions that Cliff Stone (who does have a high school >>diploma) and who has freely violated his security oaths and who >>has said that he has shared classified information with those >>not cleared to have it, now balks at telling us the new name for >>Project Moon Dust. I also await the proper name of the EBE >>guidebook so that I might use FOIA to request a copy since Dr. >>Salla has made it clear that Stone will not reveal classified >>information and therefore the document must be unclassified. >>Checkmate. >Aloha Dr Randle, (aka Captain Randle and soon to be Major >Randle), I will never again mix up the famous Randle family name >with the less distinguished Randalls. Actually I was promoted to major in the Iowa National Guard in October. >As for your competence as part of Brad Kimball's "A Team" for >serious UFO research, I was pointing out that you do not have >the empirical scientific background lauded as the ideal basis >for the "Serious Study of the UFO phenomenon". The empirical >study of "lights in the sky" as defined by Allen Hynek's The UFO >Experience is very different to a PhD study in human or social >psychology. Furthermore, being "involved in a couple of >psychology experiments" is very different to a trained >psychologist designing and implementing clinical studies into >human or social psychology. You do not appear to have worked as >a professional psychologist and thereby have minimal experience >with the kinds of methodological issues professionals in >pyschology and other social science disciplines constantly >grapple with. If you had worked as a professional psychologist >whether at a university or in a clinic, you would know that >there is no consensus over what constitutes a "rigorous >scientific method" thereby making the idea of an A-Team for the >"Serious Study of the UFO phenomenon" nonsensical. I was merely suggesting that your assumption that I had not participated in any experiments (and yes I've even designed some) was in error. I was not suggesting anything else. It's not unlike the time that Stan Friedman, learning that I had no degree in English said that he had thought I was an English major. He assumed that because I was a writer. >I have not been ignoring you or Brad Sparks when it comes to >Clifford Stone's claims. I have been continuing my research on >his case and finding out more on his precise activities between >1974-1980 in terms of his FOIA requests and the discovery of >Project Moon Dust. Since it has been alleged by Brad Sparks and >supported by you that Stone "ripped off" Todd Roberts FOIA >research on Project Moon Dust, I simply need to dig deeper to >find out what happened in that period. When I do get more >information, I will respond to the list with my findings. >As for the name of the EBE Guidebook Clifford Stone discussed >with me in my July inteview, he said it was a 3" thick "Guide" >with over 1000 pages with medical and background data on 57 EBE >races that he saw between 1979-89 when his handler, a mysterious >'Colonel', allowed him to look at it in that period. It appeared >to fill the role of a first aid manual for injured EBEs based on >different physiologies and medical needs. Since Stone claims to >have been working on UFO crash retrieval teams since 1969 then >it seems the EBE Guidebook was completed sometime in 1979. But this doesn't give us the information we need to find out if such a document exists. Well, it was a 3" thick 'Guide' with over 1000 pages. Yes, but what was the name? How can we verify these statements? Why is he allowed to talk in general terms about this document which must be classified but is not allowed to give us the actual name of it? >As for Stone violating his security oaths, I think you should >not assume that someone that has broken security oaths with the >release of some information is obliged to do the same with all >classified information in his/her possession. It appears that >Stone is constrained in how much he reveals to the general >public and we are still trying to assess his credibility as a >whistleblower over what he has revealed, rather than judging him >for what he has not revealed. Very convenient. He only breaks his oaths when he wants but if we ask tough questions, well, he is not obligated to provide any answers. Yes, lets do assess his credibility over what he has revealed. Let's have some specific information so that we can go after it from sources other than Stone, remembering that the Moon Dust information was available in other arenas when Stone began to talk of it. Had he actually been the first, then something interesting might be said, but being among the first, when the information was available on a limited basis to those using FOIA, then we really have nothing to suggest Stone was an insider. >As far as the name of Project Moon Dust's successor is >concerned, there are two levels of classification here. The >first is the project itself which is undoubtedly classified as >was initially the case with Moondust. As for the project name, >it has been made clear to me that Stone is not prepared to make >any public statementb of the project name either because it is >classified or because he has given his word not to. I repeat, >Stone's case needs to be assessed on the basis of information he >can reveal rather than information he is constrained not to >reveal. I think whistleblowers need to be acknowledged as being >in a very precarious position and shouldn't be baited into >revealing information that jeopardizes them or their family. Ah, but here's the rub. He'll reveal classified information but when we ask questions so that we might verify the veracity of those statements, well, he is working under convenient constraints (I think I've gone alliteration happy here ). He can't tell us the new name for Moon Dust because it jeopardizes him or his family. He won't give us anything that will help verify what he has said in the past. I will point out here that we are forgetting that many of his statements about his Vietnam service (crawling through the wire to engage the VC on a one-on-one basis, that he told the first sergeant when he arrived in Vietnam that he wanted a combat assignment and hadn't been trained as a clerk, are false) and that when he has been caught a couple of times, he has reversed his position, changing the tale to fit the facts. And before you
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 A Morning Light In India? From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 20:37:26 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:56:14 -0400 Subject: A Morning Light In India? Hello List, I would appreciate loan of expertise This week, on 1st of September, near Delhi, India, a friend was jogging just after dawn when he spotted a point of light about 80 degrees above horizon due SW - i.e. nearly overhead. The light remained visible, presumably in place - for more than an hour, from 06:53 to 08:00 Delhi time. ALthough Mars is in that direction, wouldn't it be invisible some two or more hours after dawn? He ran home and took 4 shots of it with a universal focus film camera but doesn't think those will help identify it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 3 UFOs & Hurricanes From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:25:26 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:59:58 -0400 Subject: UFOs & Hurricanes Well, here we Americans are again digging out of a major disaster! Nature has been kicking our butts for the better part of 10 years and man made disasters the same. I'm not going to go into politics and race etc. but just a comparison to note. One storm did this much damage. We had it on radar for a week or more before it hit and we're still wallowing around like catfish out of water. How unprepared and unfocused are we as both a nation and a world? You all have seen the incompetent response from the authorities but also the results of ignorance, fear, arrogance and downright unfortunateness - if a real word - of all involved. Hurricanes and earthquakes are reality checks. They remind us that race, religion, political affiliation means nothing in the small and grand scheme of things. Nature is not a bigot. Only madmen are. So now the entire world is seeing how fragile our ways of life are as we have idiotically become dependent on fossil fuels. In the 60s President Kennedy gave a target of less than ten years to put a man on the moon and return him safely to Earth. It was done. Yet it's taken us 30+ years to fight this energy crisis war and it ain't whupped yet? You know the truth as well as I. Same goes for the so called wars on drugs, cancer, poverty, athlete's foot, etc. Should aliens of malevolent intent want to take over the world, they sure wouldn't need to build up a sweat to do so. A few well placed disasters here and there and we humans would chimp things up in a jiffy and finish the job ourselves. Isn't it odd how animals can find food and water in no time yet we humans with all our technologies and philosophies and superstitions are at a loss when disasters strike? We're watching on TV feats of great heroism and brutality. When humans want to they can validate the fact that we're not just some evolved meat but spiritual beings living in a material universe. On the other paw, we can often show that Darwin may have been right. A few well placed earthquakes and tsunamis and aliens could sit back and watch the carnage on their own versions of CNN or FOX News. We'd sure give the galaxy a show to remember. It's sobering to know with the dimwitted handling of this disaster that mankind, after tens of thousands of years of struggling up from primate to golfer could whither away before nature within a matter of weeks due to wind, rain, and it's own 'monsters from the ID'. I'm beginning to think that all nature really cares about is how good a crap machine a creature is. Fertilization of the soil and oceans is what keeps life rolling. Ewwww, didn't that happen in this year's blockbuster movie, War Of The Worlds?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Graham Sheppard 1943 - 2005 From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:35:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:08:50 -0400 Subject: Graham Sheppard 1943 - 2005 ----- From: Tom and Marian Yancey <yanceytm.nul> To: Larry Bryant <overtci.nul> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:28:53 -0500 Subject: Fwd: From Timothy Good I'm pretty sure you've already seen this, but just in case: --- Graham Sheppard An Appreciation by Timothy Good Graham Sheppard, former British Airways captain and long-time student of the UFO phenomenon, died on Wednesday 24th August at Torbay Hospital, Devon, aged 62, following complications arising from myelofibrosis, a chronic disease of the bone marrow. He is survived by his wife Margaret, and Ian and Richard, his sons from a previous marriage. Born in Pembrokeshire on 11th December 1942, Graham began his career in the early 1960s as a telecommunications engineer, including work on a modem - in those days the size of an average room! - which entailed signing the Official Secrets Act. He also worked at what is now Goonhilly Satellite Earth Station, Cornwall. In 1966 he graduated as a qualified commercial pilot at the then British European Airways (BEA)/British Overseas Airways Corporation College of Air Training at Hamble, Southampton, to fly as First Officer on the Vickers Vanguard airliner. Coincidentally, Graham had been First Officer in a Vanguard chartered by the London Symphony Orchestra on our return from Budapest to London, following a series of concerts with Andr=E9 Previn in Europe in September 1970. Graham told me that our post-tour celebrations in the cabin were causing concern on the flight deck to the extent that he ordered us to sit down and fasten seat belts due to 'anticipated turbulence'. Graham's 50-year interest in UFOs was kindled by a sighting in Wales when he was about eleven years old. I became acquainted with him in 1989, after he'd written to tell me that Above Top Secret had rekindled his enthusiasm, which had wained in the early 1970s. He told me about his two, now well-known sightings in 1967, the first during a flight from Scotland to London, following a radar alert advising the crew of 'high-speed opposite direction traffic, identity unknown'. Within seconds a very fast shining disc, about 30 metres in diameter, came into view on a reciprocal track, below and some 300 metres to the west of the BEA Vanguard airliner. As First Officer in the right-hand seat, Graham had a crystal-clear view of the disc as it shot past. Later that year, on a night flight from Gibraltar to London, he and the crew of a Vanguard were 'treated to an extraordinary display of two very aerobatic UFOs whose presence was confirmed by Bordeaux radar'. Graham flew with BEA as co-pilot on the Vanguard Merchantman (the cargo variant), the BAC 1-11 jet airliner, then took a two- year sabbatical in Africa in the mid-1970s, first with the Zambia Flying Doctor Service out of Ndola, then with Air Malawi flying the Islander on domestic routes, and the BAC 1-11 475 as co-pilot on the international network. In 1979, the now merged British Airways (BA) moved Graham to left seat as Captain of the Vickers Viscount, followed over the remainder of his period with BA by command of Boeing 737, Boeing 747 Jumbo, Boeing 757 and 767, ending in December 1994 on the Airbus A320. His 'retirement' included a year's contract flying the Boeing 767 for Alitalia, and a year on the Boeing 747 Classic for Cathay Pacific Cargo. Although Graham was 'carpeted' by BA's chief pilot for the media exposure following interviews in the 1990s about his UFO sightings, it is due in no small part to him that the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) now takes pilot sightings of UFOs more seriously than it once did, particularly those involving 'near misses'. In 1995, he briefed the CAA's Joint Airmiss Working Group, advising that 'the commercial sensibilities of the airlines should now be set aside... Otherwise this discrete and notifiable hazard to aircraft safety will continue to be concealed and gratuitously omitted from the briefing syllabus.' In my book Unearthly Disclosure, Graham describes the alarming 'lateral displacement' which befell him in March 1993 while flying a Cessna 172 from San Juan to Mayag=FCez, Puerto Rico. Shortly after overflying the Arecibo radio telescope, he suddenly found himself 25 miles to the south, and about to infringe restricted airspace. On two occasions, in 1998 and 1999, Graham and I hired the same plane to fly the same route, but we were unable to come up with a conventional explanation. 'In 14,000 hours of flying worldwide, I have never experienced such a bizarre and unnerving incident as this one,' wrote Graham. Graham was a consummate 'pilot's pilot' - his smooth landings appreciated by colleagues and passengers alike. But he enjoyed the occasional deviation from routine. After the Falklands War, he took the first flight out of Buenos Aires and initiated a 'fly-past of friendship' before government ministers, military officials and VIPs, taking the trouble to make the cabin address in Spanish. And during his Australian posting with BA, he once effected a 'figure-of-eight' over Ayers Rock for the benefit of passengers. In Puerto Rico, I shall never forget our wonderful flights - especially those involving extremely low-level passes over the coast, and the euphoric 'stall turns'. There was also the occasion when he greeted my then girlfriend and me over the FM Air band as he flew a BA 757 above our flat in southeast London, in the landing pattern for Heathrow. Graham's multiple talents were extraordinary. He had acquired all skills relating to the restoration of buildings , and was an accomplished musician: an excellent jazz clarinettist and saxophonist, he also played the cornet, flute, guitar, mandolin - and even the penny-whistle! He was also a skilled wordsmith. A noted raconteur, his wonderful wit and sense of humour never let him down - even up to his last days. He was a philanthropist, and always generous in his judgment of people. He endured uncomplainingly the extremes of discomfort that he suffered in the last few years with fortitude, seldom allowing his condition to get the better of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 15:53:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:37:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - >From: Franck Boitte <Franckboitte.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 03:42:53 EDT >Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - Boitte >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:29:45 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>A French observer (Michele?) referred to UFO sightings as a >>festival of absurdity'. Without knowing who is really behind >>UFOs, why and so forth, could the more absurd displays simply be >>a way of masking origin and intent? >A member of the informal "Invisible College" and a close friend >of Vall=E9e, Aim=E9 MICHEL deceased Dec. 1992) was one of the first >french ufologists. The citation you quote he made in his book >"Flying Saucers and the Straight Line Mystery", first published >in the USA in 1954. >His main theory that UFOs observationbs or reports for a given >day were disposed along straight "lines" or "corridors" over a >given country (namely France) was diversely criticized by D. >Menzel, J. Vallee, J. Scornaux and definitely proved erroneus at Dear Mr, Boite: There are at least two books from Aime Michele in this list: http://www.larryhatch.net/USOURCE.html I was very saddened to learn of the death of Michele. Of all people, I think he might have liked my maps the best. I am well familiar with the Michele theories of 'Orthotony' (straight lines) and also Vallee's criticisms of those same theories. Other matters do unavoidably come up, and sadly orthotony was lost behind a blur of sandwiches and wine. Thanks for your opinions.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Waking Up To The Worst Nightmare - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:55:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:15:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Waking Up To The Worst Nightmare - White >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 06:30:08 -0400 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Waking Up To The Worst Nightmare <snip> >Waking Up To The Worst Nightmare >The Sun-Herald <snip> >About three-quarters of the time, Ng said, it was accompanied by >hallucinations that could include a feeling of floating, hearing >noises such as people talking, laughing and humming, or even >seeing things, such as another person in the room. Typical medical/scientific arrogance: Anything they can't
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:09:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:17:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Hatch >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:39:00 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 <snip> Call me jaded, something else? It doesn't much matter really. Kevin wrote a long and thoughtful treatise to Dr. Salla. Dammit, KR could have been doing something else. I think Dr. Salla is - politely speaking - a screaming idiot, and fear that much time is wasted as a result. I hope that Salla is not overly offended at this. If memory serves, he indicated or expected that not all of his statements
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Why No UFOs? From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:58:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:25:08 -0400 Subject: Why No UFOs? Thanks to the link at The Anomalist: http://www.anomalist.com for the RRRgroup blog: http://rrrgroup.blogspot.com/ I was able to read Rich Reynolds' interesting commentary revealed in the title, Why No UFOs?, at the blog. I can't 'comment' at his blog, because it's restricted. He asks why were no flying saucers seen over disasters, such as those of the genocide in Dafur, the tsumani-raved areas of south Asia, and the Hurricane Katrina wastelands. He challenges, wondering why "flying saucer people" or "aliens," as he calls them, are only obsessed with cows, hay fields, and an occasional loner? Why no reconnaissance over major disasters? Putting aside any belief I might have or not have in whether there are even pilots or whether there are craft involved, I wondered too, then, why no correlation with disasters and UFOs? Or is Mr. Reynolds jumping to simple conclusions here, based upon only a flash of an idea and a restricted and limited survey of recent media accounts? It took me very little research to discover that UFOs (whatever the mysterious lights in the sky might be), indeed, have been seen during disasters. One can begin on a microlevel, and discuss how the first major collapse of a suspension bridge in America (directly leading to bridge inspections in this nation), was the Silver Bridge at Point Pleasant, WV, December 15, 1967, and it has routinely been linked to sightings of UFOs by some authors. But Mr. Reynolds wants big disasters, so let us move on to macroevents. For example, The Great Northeast Blackout of November 9, 1965, has long been acknowledged as an event that had several UFO sightings associated with it. ufologie.net/htm/blackout65.htm www.rense.com/general40/filers82503.htm www.ceet.niu.edu/faculty/vanmeer/outage.htm The Chernobyl atomic reactor accident of 1986, reportedly, happened as UFOs were overhead. While it is not important for this exercise of associations, I might as well note that some believe these UFOs intervened in making Chernobyl a less serious accident. http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/16/36691.html The Aetherius Society even released a press release about this, in which they theorized that "UFOs assisted in the revelations and clear-up following the atomic accidents at Chernobyl (1986), Windscale, England (1957), and the Ural mountains (1958)." http://www.aetherius.org/NewFiles/proofofufos.html In 1998, Francisco Lopez linked hurricanes and UFOs: "Some UFO events were reported during Hurricane Andrew in South Florida... During Hurricane Georges some reports for UFO events were phoned... Jorge Martin, in Puerto Rico, island affected by the storm, reported that many credible witnesses called him and, inclusively, offered videos taken during the events." http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/oct/m10-008.shtml So while Mr. Reynolds' question is a good one, I expect that during a disaster, reporting a UFO is not of much interest to the media and law enforcement authorities, and it might take months for forteans, ufologists, and folklorists to record such material. Nevertheless, even though I don't necessarily think it proves anything, I was able to quickly find enough reports to speculate that the generalization of the RRRgroup's commentary was based
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Artefact Found In X-Ray From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:17:40 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:28:50 -0400 Subject: Artefact Found In X-Ray Hi Everyone, A question, has anyone in their research come across an abduction experience that has revealed an artefact in the upper right orbit below the infra-orbital margin? I have read the story of Christopher Rock at: http://members.tripod.com/~RockC/index-5.html Has anyone investigated Christopher's story? Regards, Diane Harrison
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 02:19:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:32:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:29:45 -0700 >Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >Hi Don: >One possibility might be called 'absurdity as camouflage'. >A French observer (Michele?) referred to UFO sightings as a >'festival of absurdity'. Without knowing who is really behind >UFOs, why and so forth, could the more absurd displays simply be >a way of masking origin and intent? >Think of the fabled baby elephant that painted itself pink so it >could escape from the zoo and wander about unmolested. Nobody >would cop to having seen it. >The story was fiction of course, but the absurdity >had a purpose. If you know something 'wrong' will be >seen from time to time, make it seem absurd, and thus >psychologically invisible. And who would know more about human psychology than humans? I've seen 'pink elephants', people see them every day. But these can't be UFOs. Everyone knows real UFOs are silver or black and shaped like saucers, triangles and lights that go zoom. By keeping the _focus_ on shapes, colors and behaviors of what are commonly accepted as 'UFOs' and 'aliens', encounters that fall outside these parameters are beyond comprehension and therefore 'invisible' to human awareness. As paradigms expand,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Ship's Logs? - Allan From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:58:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:33:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? - Allan >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 18:26:56 +0100 >Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:21:12 -0700 >>Subject: Ship's Logs? >>From: Peter Hassall <stunts.nul> >>To: forteana.nul >>Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:58:50 +1200 >>Subj: [forteana] Ship's logs? >>Does anybody know of any (preferably online) depository of >>ship's logs? Or a physical storage place where requests can be >>made? >>I am hoping to locate a copy of the log entry for the date of >>the Llandovery castle sighting of a huge UFO. But this research >>request could apply to other UFO, USO, sea monster,and similar >>fortean events. Getting copies of the original logs for relevant >>sighting dates could show if some cases were media/literary >>hoaxes (e.g. no entry at all in the original log) and/or give >>more detailed information on a case. >>After all, where do old ship's logs go? >Surviving merchant navy log books for this period are held at >the National Archives at Kew, along with crew lists. The NA >however reports that usually only those with genealogical >information (births, marriages and deaths at sea) have survived, >the rest were discarded. >The NA has some passenger lists for the Llandovery Castle but >not for this voyage. We were told some months ago that the Brazilian military had made some or all of their UFO files available to the public. Why not ask them for the log of the 'Almirante Saldanha' for January 16, 1958? Then we might really know who, and how many, actually witnessed the UFO photographed that day.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 35 - Mancusi From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 15:20:40 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:37:06 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 35 - Mancusi >From: John Hayes <John.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:47:28 +0100 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 35 >Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. ><Masinaigan.nul> >========================== > UFO ROUNDUP >Volume 10, Number 35 >August 31, 2005 >Edtor: Joseph Trainor >E-mail: Masinaigan.nul >Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ <snip> >CROP CIRCLES APPEAR IN >CANADA AND SWITZERLAND <snip> > On Friday, August 19, 2005, "an astounding crop >circle formation was discovered in front of the entrance >building of Mystery Park" in Interlaken, Switzerland, on >the shores of Lake Geneva. An exposition on crop circles >was planned for the park, but "because of the mysterious >appearance of a crop circle overnight, the event was >cancelled." (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of Canadian >Crop Circle Research Network and French ufologist Robert >Fischer for these news stories.) Some remarks: - Interlaken is not "on the shores of Lake Geneva" but between Lakes Thun and Brienz, 80 km (50 miles) from Geneva one. - There is indeed an exhibition "Crop Circles - Mysteries and mysterious matters" at Mystery Park from 5th May to 31st October 2005. - A crop circle was really discovered on August 19 near the Park: http://www.mysterypark.ch/index.html?page_id=179&l=2 So, the event was not hidden. But it's highly suspect just because the Park planned to build one on August 20-21! See: http://www.mysterypark.ch/file/MPI_Newsletter_200508_e.pdf - Like several regions in Central Europe, Central Switzerland underwent flood caused by continuous rain from Saturday August 19 to Monday 21 (6 people died). It seems that Mystery Park was not affected by the flood (there is no information of closing or damage on its website). See for example:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 International UFO Researchers Head For China From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:53:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:53:24 -0400 Subject: International UFO Researchers Head For China For those readers who have noted that Bill Chalker & Stan Friedman are headed for China, and wondered why, the following will be of interest: ----- Source: http://www.hrufo.com/jsufo/hrnh0411.htm Date: 21 January 2005 Invitation Letter Ladies and Gentlemen of the UFO Research Community: To further the development of World UFO research, it was decided among many UFO research organizations around the world that The International Chinese UFO Association be entrusted to hold a World UFO Conference in the beautiful city of Dalian, China. This conference will be a great gathering of worldwide UFO researchers. UFO cases which have happened around the world will be shown via verbal and video presentations to the attendees. he world-renowned UFO experts, and researchers will give subject matter presentations,including Close Encounter Cases which have happened in China. This will be a rare occasion for the exchange of information and a powerful impetus to UFO research. During the conference we will present the delegates with the great changes in China today. Dalian a beautiful garden-like seaside city will be the site of the conference. The annual Dalian International Clothing Festival also happens in September. We can all enjoy the festivities. Welcome to Dalian. It will definitely leave you with a life long memory. Time: September 8th to the 10th, 2005 Place: Dalian, China Notice to delegates: For delegates who wish to give a presentation, please send a copy to the Preparatory Committee no later than May 31, 2005. Any copies of videos or materials to show to the conference may also be brought. Thesis published at the conference will be judged and the most excellent ones will be awarded. Delegates should pay traveling expenses yourselves. The organizing committee will cover the lodging and meals. Delegates are required to pay US $500 to cover all the expenses like lodging, meals, registration, materials, transportation, souvenir and so on. All delegates need to inform the conference regarding their landing time and transportation means before coming to China, the conference will arrange the receiving of delegates. If you have any special requests or needs, please submit them to the conference in written form to avoid possible inconvenience. Please let the preparatory committee know if you will attend this conference, via e-mail or regular mail when you receive this invitation. Preparatory Committee Address: 21-8 #2 Building No. 205 Yongping Street, Dalian, China Telephone: 0411-84646365, 13889415759, and 13019466828 E-mail: jinfan41311.nul Contact: Jin, Fan, and Guo, Zhengmin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 UFO Sighting In La Pampa Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:04:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:55:13 -0400 Subject: UFO Sighting In La Pampa Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology September 4, 2005 SOURCE: Planeta Ufo DATE: 09.03.05 Argentina: UFO Sighting In La Pampa It occurred in the evening of Tuesday, August 30, 2005 between 19:30 and 20:00 Hs. local time. The witness is security worker for the local airport. A flight had just arrived, and an airport staffer told the witness: "Look at the light, up there in the sky. How strange!" He thought it was a joke, but no -- upon looking up he saw a light 4-5 times greater than a planet toward the northwest and facing his position. What most attracted his attention was that it was "beautiful", since it had the characteristic, clean glow of a star and a wake that ranged toward orange in its tail section. "It took off as though headed for Bahia Blanca," he said. A regular airline pilot added his voice to the witness's remarks. He said that pilots are always seeing things, but that this one caught his attention, because it was his understanding that it was flying very high. The main witness also told me that although airplanes often fly overhead (Santa Rosa is a beacon or point of reference and flights make course corrections when they reach the beacon) they do so at a certain speed. This object was flying three times faster, at least. This object was also reported to the south of our city and in communities in the southeastern corner of the province of La Pampa. Given that airplanes flying over us are around 50-60 meters long, and considering what the postal pilot was saying and contrasting it to what the witness was saying, we may deduce that this object would have an approximate diameter of some 60 meters, if we subtract the brightness from its altitude at which it was flying. I am also cross checking my appreciation against the film i took a few days ago of the international space station and the shuttle, but no wake was seen (in this last case). Salvatore Valentin Carta.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Franck Boitte <Franckboitte.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:51:44 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:58:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> To: ufoupdates.nul Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:29:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >A French observer (Michele?) referred to UFO sightings as a >festival of absurdity'. Without knowing who is really behind >UFOs, why and so forth, could the more absurd displays simply be >a way of masking origin and intent? A member of the informal "Invisible College" and a close friend of Vall=E9e, Aim=E9 MICHEL (deceased Dec. 1992) was one of the first french ufologists. The citation you quote he made in his book "Flying Saucers and the Straight Line Mystery", first published in the USA in 1954. His main theory that the ufos observations or reports of a given day were disposed along straight "lines" or "corridors" over a given country (namely France) was diversely criticized by D. Menzel, J. Vallee, J. Scornaux and definitely proved erroneus at its roots (the datas) by M. Jantheau.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Salla & Stone - Salla From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 05:06:45 -1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:03:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Salla & Stone - Salla >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:28:25 EDT >Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 06:29:20 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 07:09:00 EDT >>>Subject: Salla & Stone [was: An Open Question To The List] >>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:54:58 -1000 >>>>Subject: Re: An Open Question To The List <snip> >>Aloha Dr Randle, (aka Captain Randle and soon to be Major >>Randle), I will never again mix up the famous Randle family name >>with the less distinguished Randalls. >Actually I was promoted to major in the Iowa National Guard in >October. Confusing. You use the past tense for a future event. >>As for your competence as part of Brad Kimball's "A Team" for >>serious UFO research, I was pointing out that you do not have >>the empirical scientific background lauded as the ideal basis >>for the "Serious Study of the UFO phenomenon". The empirical >>study of "lights in the sky" as defined by Allen Hynek's The UFO >>Experience is very different to a PhD study in human or social >>psychology. Furthermore, being "involved in a couple of >>psychology experiments" is very different to a trained >>psychologist designing and implementing clinical studies into >>human or social psychology. You do not appear to have worked as >>a professional psychologist and thereby have minimal experience >>with the kinds of methodological issues professionals in >>pyschology and other social science disciplines constantly >>grapple with. If you had worked as a professional psychologist >>whether at a university or in a clinic, you would know that >>there is no consensus over what constitutes a "rigorous >>scientific method" thereby making the idea of an A-Team for the >>"Serious Study of the UFO phenomenon" nonsensical. >I was merely suggesting that your assumption that I had not >participated in any experiments (and yes I've even designed >some) was in error. I was not suggesting anything else. It's not >unlike the time that Stan Friedman, learning that I had no >degree in English said that he had thought I was an English >major. He assumed that because I was a writer. Thanks for confirming that part of your PhD training involved some clinical applications of psychology. This doesn't detract from my earlier point that since you haven't practiced as a clinical psychologist or had an academic appointment in a psychology department, then you haven't had the kind of exposure to methodological debates that professional psychologists often deal with in their work. My conclusion is that you lack the exposure to the rigorous methodological debates that professionals in most of the social sciences are commonly exposed to. For example, have you ever graded or advised graduate students doing a Master's Thesis? That is one way in which contentious methodological issues need to be carefully evaluated given the wide variety of methodological approaches that can be taken by graduate students in most social science disciplines. In the current debate over the most appropriate UFO research methodology, and Paul Kimball's inclusion of you in his A-Team for UFO research, I see little evidence of any profesional exposure to different methodological approaches and their suitability to some of the challenges confronting the ETH and UFO research. This also goes with the other members of his A- Team, none of whom aside from you have PhDs, or any professional competence in applying diverse methodologies for dealing with a multifaceted social scientific phenomenon as the ETH and UFOs. >>I have not been ignoring you or Brad Sparks when it comes to >>Clifford Stone's claims. I have been continuing my research on >>his case and finding out more on his precise activities between >>1974-1980 in terms of his FOIA requests and the discovery of >>Project Moon Dust. Since it has been alleged by Brad Sparks and >>supported by you that Stone "ripped off" Todd Roberts FOIA >>research on Project Moon Dust, I simply need to dig deeper to >>find out what happened in that period. When I do get more >>information, I will respond to the list with my findings. >>As for the name of the EBE Guidebook Clifford Stone discussed >>with me in my July inteview, he said it was a 3" thick "Guide" >>with over 1000 pages with medical and background data on 57 EBE >>races that he saw between 1979-89 when his handler, a mysterious >>'Colonel', allowed him to look at it in that period. It appeared >>to fill the role of a first aid manual for injured EBEs based on >>different physiologies and medical needs. Since Stone claims to >>have been working on UFO crash retrieval teams since 1969 then >>it seems the EBE Guidebook was completed sometime in 1979. >But this doesn't give us the information we need to find out if >such a document exists. Well, it was a 3" thick 'Guide' with over >1000 pages. Yes, but what was the name? How can we verify these >statements? Why is he allowed to talk in general terms about >this document which must be classified but is not allowed to >give us the actual name of it? There was no title that Stone mentioned other than his description of it as a Guide for EBEs. He did not mention a title page or anything on its cover that suggested it can be tracked down through FOIA. >>As for Stone violating his security oaths, I think you should >>not assume that someone that has broken security oaths with the >>release of some information is obliged to do the same with all >>classified information in his/her possession. It appears that >>Stone is constrained in how much he reveals to the general >>public and we are still trying to assess his credibility as a >>whistleblower over what he has revealed, rather than judging him >>for what he has not revealed. >Very convenient. He only breaks his oaths when he wants but if >we ask tough questions, well, he is not obligated to provide any >answers. Yes, lets do assess his credibility over what he has >revealed. Let's have some specific information so that we can go >after it from sources other than Stone, remembering that the >Moon Dust information was available in other arenas when Stone >began to talk of it. Had he actually been the first, then >something interesting might be said, but being among the first, >when the information was available on a limited basis to those >using FOIA, then we really have nothing to suggest Stone was an >insider. I fail to see your point here about a convenient rationale for Stone not answering all questions you may put to him. I've written a short article about asking the right questions of whistleblowers at: http://www.exopolitics.org/Exo-Comment-30.htm . Asking "tough questions" may easily compromise a whistleblower in terms of any security oath. You can't simply assume that since he may have 'broken' or 'stretched' some oaths and has apparently not been incarcerated, that he is free to continue 'breaking' his oaths without risking future incarceration. Stone is describing a security system that appears to condone some leaks but not others. I don't see why that concept is difficult for you to grasp. Public acclimation is very likely occuring as evidenced by the number of whistleblowers coming forward, and some of Stone's disclosures are permitted while others aren't. Certainly the threats he claims to have received make it important to consider the possibility that he is subject to constraints. As for Project Moon Dust, Brad Sparks directed me to a 1978 FOIA letter received by Robert Todd from the US Air Force mentioning Project Moon Dust. That's the earliest documented reference so far to Project Moon Dust that I have found. Stone has claimed he told Tom Adams and Gary Barker about Project Moon Dust in 1977 while he was stationed in Europe, and there is the possibility that Adams/Barker passed this on to Todd. So I'm currently researching that possibility. For the record, Stone has two military newspaper stories about him in 1980 where he was interviewed for his FOIA UFO work. By 1980, Stone was quoted in the stories to have thousands of pages of documents he had received through FOIA requests since 1974. So Stone was clearly a pioneer along with Robert Todd and others in FOIA requests on UFO documents. The idea he "ripped off" Todd's work is not supported by the newspaper stories that show Stone FOIA work dates back to 1974. >>As far as the name of Project Moon Dust's successor is >>concerned, there are two levels of classification here. The >>first is the project itself which is undoubtedly classified as >>was initially the case with Moondust. As for the project name, >>it has been made clear to me that Stone is not prepared to make >>any public statementb of the project name either because it is >>classified or because he has given his word not to. I repeat, >>Stone's case needs to be assessed on the basis of information he >>can reveal rather than information he is constrained not to >>reveal. I think whistleblowers need to be acknowledged as being >>in a very precarious position and shouldn't be baited into >>revealing information that jeopardizes them or their family. >Ah, but here's the rub. He'll reveal classified information but >when we ask questions so that we might verify the veracity of >those statements, well, he is working under convenient >constraints (I think I've gone alliteration happy here ). He >can't tell us the new name for Moon Dust because it jeopardizes >him or his family. He won't give us anything that will help >verify what he has said in the past. You are overlooking the documentation that Stone has accumulated since 1974 which supports his claims of having done UFO research through FOIA requests while in the army. This helps establish his credibility as someone that had insider knowledge due to the information he was able to gain and which initially impressed researchers such as Stan Friedman and yourself. While this doesn't prove he was the insider he claims, his UFO FOIA work supports his credibility which is the key issue here. Clifford Stone has told me that he has given his word not to reveal the new classified name for Project Moondust. I don't know why you would assume that he is free to reveal all his knowledge about classified projects. We need to analyse Stone's testimony in terms of what he has revealed, not what he hasn't revealed or is willing to answer in terms of "tough questions" that may compromise him. Your approach does not appear sufficiently nuanced in cases like Stone where there does appear to be threats that greatly concern and constrain him. >I will point out here that we are forgetting that many of his >statements about his Vietnam service (crawling through the wire >to engage the VC on a one-on-one basis, that he told the first >sergeant when he arrived in Vietnam that he wanted a combat >assignment and hadn't been trained as a clerk, are false) and >that when he has been caught a couple of times, he has reversed >his position, changing the tale to fit the facts. And before you >ask, the one that springs immediately to mind is his claimed >involvement with the Kecksburg UFO event of 1965. Stone claims to have never been trained as a typist which was a cover for his crash retrieval training and activities. This is something he claims to be able to prove through documentation and I'm presently looking more into that aspect of his case. As for his specific duties and activities while serving in Vietnam, I think your focus on them are a distraction from Stone's central claims that he was involved in UFO crash retrievals which need to be analysed and not simply dismissed as you are doing. As for the Kecksberg crash, Stone claimed to have remote viewed the UFO crash to his "Captain" mentor before he enlisted in 1969. It was Stone's 'psychic abilities' that apparently made him suitable as an interface with ETs and Kecksberg was part of the circumstances which led to his recruitment into the UFO crash retrieval teams. Stone claimed to have been used for telepathic communications. I think subsequent research on remote viewing has demonstrated its effectiveness and why the military was interested in someone like Stone with natural psychic abilities. I'm presently doing more research on Stone's case and will get back to you and the forum with my results.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 4 Re: Artifact Found In X-Ray - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:58:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 12:06:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Artifact Found In X-Ray - Velez >From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:17:40 +1000 >Subject: Artifact Found In X-Ray >A question, has anyone in their research come across an >abduction experience that has revealed an artefact in the upper >right orbit below the infra-orbital margin? >I have read the story of Christopher Rock at: >http://members.tripod.com/~RockC/index-5.html Hello Diane, >Has anyone investigated Christopher's story? Not that I know of. But, there are several other cases like this one where there is a report of an artifact, and then no follow up by anyone. F'rinstance... several years ago Whitley Strieber aired a special on TV that featured (among other things) a gentleman that had an artifact in his hand that he claims is an alien implant. X-rays revealed that there was in fact a small, roundish object imbedded in the gentleman's left hand. It was surgically removed and taken away for testing/analysis. Nothing more has ever been said about it. Almost ten years ago in a segment of 'Sightings' a woman who said she was an abductee was checked out at an MRI lab because she said she had an 'alien implant' inside her head. She had complained of constant headaches since receiving the alleged implant so her personal physician ordered the scans of her head. Just before she entered the machine for examination she pointed toward the center of her head (she used both index fingers to help triangulate the exact position) where the doctors would find the alleged implant. Lo and behold, after the scans are taken an object was found in the exact spot in her brain where she said they would find it. The CAT scans showed a small, roundish object inside the woman's brain. Unfortunately in an inoperable location. I've never heard another word about either of these intriguing reports. I wonder how much potential physical evidence continues to evade investigators precisely because nobody is looking.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Why No UFOs? - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:24:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? - Groff >From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:58:13 -0400 >Subject: Why No UFOs? >Thanks to the link at The Anomalist: >http://www.anomalist.com >for the RRRgroup blog: >http://rrrgroup.blogspot.com/ >I was able to read Rich Reynolds' interesting commentary >revealed in the title, Why No UFOs?, at the blog. >I can't 'comment' at his blog, because it's restricted. >He asks why were no flying saucers seen over disasters, such as >those of the genocide in Dafur, the tsumani-raved areas of south >Asia, and the Hurricane Katrina wastelands. He challenges, >wondering why "flying saucer people" or "aliens," as he calls >them, are only obsessed with cows, hay fields, and an occasional >loner? Why no reconnaissance over major disasters? >Putting aside any belief I might have or not have in whether >there are even pilots or whether there are craft involved, I >wondered too, then, why no correlation with disasters and UFOs? >Or is Mr. Reynolds jumping to simple conclusions here, based >upon only a flash of an idea and a restricted and limited survey >of recent media accounts? <snip> I think you touched on one of the major reasons and that is to the people who have been most affected by many of the events simply aren't interested in even looking for unusual objects much less reporting what they may have seen. Plus, in the case of Katrina, there is little ability to communicate, no phone service, cellular or otherwise, nor online capabilities. Perhaps after things have settled down in a few months (or
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Salla From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 06:39:09 -1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:28:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Salla >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:39:00 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:53:44 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:32:09 -1000 >>>>Subject: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 <snip> >>My communications here on UFO UpDates with other researchers >>here has been very helpful since I've quickly learned what >>standards and methods they use and can refine my own in >>response. I don't claim to have certainty when it comes to >>answers about the UFO phenomenon but am confident that my >>research method is more appropriate than what is used by many of >>the veteran researchers. I think the way in which veteran UFO >>researchers routinely dismiss whistleblower and contactee data >>is major impediment to better understanding the UFO phenomenon. >>The general public are seeking answers to the ETH that the >>present "scientifically rigorous method" of UFO research fails >>to address. This is why UFO research is at a cross roads and >>alternative ways of conceptualizing this phenomenon such as >>Exopolitics are becoming more popular. >Dr. Salla, List, All >See, here is the problem in a nutshell. Dr. Salla believes that >we veteran UFO researchers routinely dismiss the alleged >whistle-blower and contactee data... and implies that we >haven't bothered with investigation. But there are reasons for >our dismissing of these testimonies. >For example, I actually saw George van Tassel when he came to >Denver in the mid-1960s. He was talking about life on Mars, as >in intelligent life that was spreading across the surface at >that time - not the theoretical construct that has been adopted >with the Face on Mars controversy. He, of course, never said >anything directly against George Adamski, other than you >couldn't trust anything those Venusians said. Of course we now >know that Venus is much too hot to support life, unless, of >course, we want to reject the now accepted science. >The contactees, whether Van Tassel or Adamski, or Dan Fry, or a >platoon of others, were never able to offer any sort of >independent evidence that their tales of travel through the >Solar System were true - they never got to take pictures, never >managed to grab an artifact, never learned anything that was new >and different to our science. An excellent article on many of these contactees was written by Bill Hamilton: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/et031.html From what I have seen, Bill Hamilton has had the longest track record in analysing these contact cases and certainly doesn't dismiss all their testimonies as 'tall tales' is clear in the article. As for the various stories about cities on Venus, Mars, the Moon, etc., there is much that science seems to contradict. However, there is the very valid concern that the data is being systematically withheld from the scientific community as researchers such as Richard Hoagland contend for the Mars data. I don't think we should jump to conclusions based on what science tells us about what a contactee claims when there is what appears to me very valid claims that scientific data confirming the ETH is withheld. This is something we need to seriously consider since "Cosmic Watergate" as Stan Friedman and others put it is very real and pervasive. It would be very hard to maintain a "Cosmic Watergate" if data wasn't withheld from the scientific community. >Not once did any of them suggest >that the Solar System extended out beyond Pluto into the Kuiper >Belt or the Oort Cloud, that objects larger than Pluto would be >found out there, causing our scientists to argue about the >definition of a planet. Not once did any of the contactees, who >claimed cordial relations with these space brother offer >anything that would be useful to our science or our planet, >other than the sort of thing you might read in science fiction. >Their predictions never came true and it has been demonstrated, >time and again that the contactees were making it up. >But, of course, none of we 'veteran UFO researchers' have taken >the time to investigate these claims. We just dismiss them out >of hand. Your method is questionable. Your approach to assessing the testimony of contactees or whistleblowers is to raise questions that often appear to me to be distractions from the central claims of these contactees/whistleblowers. Why is it important for them to discuss the Kuiper Belt or what is out there in the Oort Cloud if they are talking about underground life on Mars, the Moon, Ganymede, etc? You and most other veteran UFO researchers dismiss the contactee or whistleblower testimonies since you demand the 'hard evidence' to substantiate their claims. When I or others respond that the hard evidence in terms of documents, material, photos, independent witness testimonies, etc., is in many cases withdrawn or manipulated by those responsible for 'Cosmic Watergate', we are accused of being gullible and believing any tall story thrown our way. The problem as I've consistenly said is that the 'hard evidence' is removed which means we need to consider 'soft evidence' such as whistleblower integrity, consistency, coherence, etc., as well as assess any available hard evidence. Are there those out there wanting to discredit UFO research through disinformation, lies, etc., yes, I would have to agree. That means we have a problem and that requires a nuanced methodology that doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. "Cosmic Watergate" is very real and I'm glad that some researchers such as Stan Friedman have been able to substantiate it with their research on Roswell and analyses of the Majestic Documents. I just finished Stan's book, Top Secret/Majestic and certainly agree with his conclusions in contrast to your own concerning the validity of some of the Majestic Documents and the existence of Cosmic Watergate. >And now we come to the whistleblowers. I'll deal with Cliff >Stone here simply because I have known him for fifteen years, >been to his house in Roswell and watched his tale expand from >that of an informed (meaning that he knew a lot about UFOs) >researcher to that of a participant in the cover-up with the >sort of inside knowledge that would make anyone happy. > >I have mentioned on this list, a number of times, the games that >Stone played the very first day I met him and what these games >told me about his character. I listened to his tales of people >coming in the night to drag him from his home, take him to >secret, dark locations and subject him to grueling >interrogations. Of course, he had no good explanation for why >this was happening, other than he was interested in UFOs and >they were quizzing him about what he might know. They warned him >against revealing information, but he ignored those warnings >(until recently when we asked pointed and specific questions) >and was told that he might be killed. He never explained why >these people took him out to warn him rather than just shoot him >in the head and be done with it. > >Of course, back then he wasn't claiming to be an insider who was >privy to every important UFO secret from the Kecksburg UFO crash >to the alien autopsy film that he saw in 1969. He said that he >saw the Kecksburg object trucked away until challenged and >changed the story to he just knew about it. He saw the alien >autopsy film from inside the building where the obviously >classified breifing was being shown to others - a really >ridiculous scenario. > >So, yes, I met with him, interviewed him, credited him with his >research because I could verify that, but then his tales took on >a new life placing him in the middle of every important UFO >event in the last fifty years and that was just too much. > >I have also mentioned his tales of crawling through the wire at >the base camps in Vietnam to engage the enemy - but such tales >of clandestine and unauthorized missions are universally >rejected because none of them have ever been proven to be true. >Single soldiers did not crawl off into the jungle to engage in >personal combat with the enemy. I doubt you have all the answers as to what is possible or not in a combat situation. War is a situation that brings out some very unusual qualities, it is possible that the same qualities that made Stone suitable for a UFO crash retrieval program made him perform unusual feats that he describes. You overook that possibility. >Yes, I understand that we can say all these things, that Stan >can offer the evidence that Bob Lazar is not who he claims to be >and that his record does not balance with the facts, but there >are those who wish to believe so badly that they are willing to >ignore the flaws in these wild tales so that they can believe. >They will over- look the inconsistencies and the lack of any >evidence, giving the government the power to literally wipe out >all the evidence. Yet, when it comes time to put up, they offer >excuses. Stone just won't tell us about the new Moon Dust >because he fears for his family. Why now and not ten years ago >when he began shooting off his mouth? Why do you assume that "I wish to believe so badly" that my critical faculties go out the window when analysing the testimonies of Lazar, Stone, etc and flaws in their testimonies? You tend to focus on "minor" inconsistencies in their testimonies while I tend to focus on the consistencies between what the whistleblower claims and the avialable data and the testimony of other whistleblowers. There is a cross comparison that can be used to analyse the whistleblower data that is quite extensive now. My methodological approach is distinct to your own and certainly doesn't make me a default "believer". Being "open" to whistleblower testimonies is appropriate for a researcher still grappling with data that is imcomplete, withdrawn, and possibly manipulated. Furthermore, I came into this field of UFO research/exopolitics since I was looking for answers to what drives international conflict. The answers I've discovered so far in terms of a Cosmic Watergate that is global and pervasive gives me a conceptual framework for understanding international conflict and how data is manipulated. That has nothing to do with my need to believe, and has everything to do with my need to understand the available data and the testimony of whistleblowers. You along with Stan gloss over the data which is inconsistent with your own conclusions that Lazar and Stone are liars. There are those who are competent field researchers who have interviewed and analysed Lazar and Stone and find them to be credible. So what we have here are inconsistent research findings between researchers. As to what is the truth, I think being open to what a whistleblower claims despite the inconclusivity of the data is an important requirement to understanding and unraveling the Cosmic Watergate. You may not be satisified with that since you don't accept the initial premise of a Cosmic Watergate and focus on the absence of evidence. I understand your approach which is quite logical if you reject the premise of a Cosmic Watergate. >But please, don't say that we routinely dismiss these claims >because that simply is not true. We all have looked at them in >the past. A lot of time and effort has been expended in checking >them out. Philip Corso added nothing to our knowledge of the >Roswell case. He gave us no evidence, couldn't tell us where to >look for the secret documents, had huge holes in his story that >should have told any rational investigator that Corso was less >than honest, and yet, here we are, still arguing the merits (and >I use that word advisedly) of his tales. Nevermind that he >couldn't even get some of the basic facts right or that he >believed Frank Kaufmann who has been proven to be another of the >frauds. You say Corso was "less than honest" but as I've shown in my recent debate with Brad Sparks, there are a number of historical documents that support Corso's claim that he was a staffer assigned to the NSC by virture of his membership of the Operations Coordinating Board (OCB). Brad Sparks tells us that the 1965 FBI report which clearly identified Corso's service on the OCB NSC was based on what the FBI were told by Corso's boss Lt Gen Trudeau, and that Trudeau was not an expect on the NSC and wrongly assumed that the OCB was part of the NSC. So basically Trudea was wrong to start with, and the FBI was wrong to simply accept Trudeau's description of Corso's employment with the OCB in the NSC. This kind of convuluted historical revisionism by Sparks is accepted by yourself and other UFO researchers as proof that Corso lied. Hmm, and I'm the one accused of being soft headed. As for Frank Kaufman, I don't see why Corso is somehow compromised by whether Kaufman was a fraud or not. Corso never claimed to have been at Roswell, he only claims to have seen the EBE being shipped from RAAF to Dayton Ohio. Kaufman may have taken Corso in like many others concerning his claims of being present at Roswell. Corso was very old and sick when he came forward to tell his story and may not have been discerning enough with those around him and what he was told. Based on my own research on Corso, he stuck closely to his story and put his reputation on the line in coming forward. Given his credentials he deserves a fair hearing. >So we might not agree with you, and some of us have been around >this field a lot longer, but we have looked at all these people >and we find their tales wanting because of the lack of evidence, >lack of corroboration and because they have been caught spinning >other wild tales. It is not a routine dismissal, it is a >rejection because of the lack of evidence. I have regularly cited field investigators such as Wendelle Stevens, Paola Harris, Bill Hamilton, who have been in the field for several decades who conclude that there is substance to many contactee and whistleblower claims, and these testimonies are sufficiently credible to warrant further investigation or exopolitical analysis. I have yet to find a competent UFO researcher who advocates a particular whistleblower or contactee case without presenting some evidence in support. The dispute is over what evidence is admissable or substantiated and that is a fair debate to have given the different premises with which researchers operate. The "lack of evidence" you cite is merely a rhetorical flourish on your part that disguises your bias toward hard evidence supported by clear facts and documents to substantiate every claim made by the whistleblower/contactee. If hard evidence is missing, you conclude the whistleblower is telling tall tales and therefore lacks credibility. The key question is not so much what evidence exists to substantiate a whistleblower/contactee testimony, but what evidentiary standards do we use to assess the available evidence? You raise the evidentiary threshold inappropriately high. In the process you ignore the distorting effect posed by the Cosmic Watergate when it comes to available evidence, and how this impacts on assessing the claims of whistleblowers/contactees. If Cosmic Watergate is real, as overwhelming evidence suggests is indeed the case, then it is logical to conclude that it impacts on the available evidence that can be used to substantiate whistleblower/contactee data. We need to neither be so closed minded that we dismiss valid testimonies nor so uncritical as to accept all testimonies. We need to keep an open mind and develop credible social scientific criteria for assessing whistleblower/contactee testimonies given the existence of a Cosmic Watergate that has been clearly substantiated.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:11:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:30:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - I'm not aiming to pick a fight, but just why does the title of this thread use "Medical Procedures"? Just as it is making an unnecessary leap in most instances to assume that UFOs are solid objects, I think it is making an incredibly giant leap to assume that what seems to be done to some people has anything to do with medical procedures. We don't yet know that anything is really happening, much less that it has anything to do with medical procedures as we know them. Even if we grant, for the sake of argument, that some sort of non-human creatures are doing things to some humans, we can not
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Salla From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:28:20 -1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:32:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Salla >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:09:02 -0700 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:39:00 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 ><snip> >Call me jaded, something else? It doesn't much matter really. >Kevin wrote a long and thoughtful treatise to Dr. Salla. Dammit, >KR could have been doing something else. >I think Dr. Salla is - politely speaking - a screaming idiot, >and fear that much time is wasted as a result. >I hope that Salla is not overly offended at this. If memory >serves, he indicated or expected that not all of his statements >would be well taken. I agree, you are acting jaded. Ad hominem attacks typically happen when there's an inability to follow arguments the nuances of which are not seen or appreciated. I invite you to identify which of my statements most concern you and I will be happy to clarify my position.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Musical UFOs From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:31:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:34:57 -0400 Subject: Musical UFOs A couple of years ago there was a little exchange on UpDates about pieces of classical music which have a UFO connection. I've recently bought an interesting CD in the Naxos American Classics series by the composer Michael Daugherty. It include a percussion concerto featuring the Evelyn Glennie. The insert describes it thus: The concerto was commissioned by the National Symphony Orchestra through a grant from the John and June Hechinger Commissioning Fund and written for Evelyn Glennie. The world premiere was performed by Evelyn Glennie, solo percussion, and the National Symphony Orchestra conducted by Leonard Slatkin, at the Kennedy Centre, Washington D.C. on 10th April 1999. The concerto begins with Travelling Music where the percussion soloist, in the guise of an alien from outer space, mysteriously enters the concert hall playing a waterphone and mechanical siren. The second movement, Unidentified, refers to the famous UFO crash in 1947 near Roswell, New Mexico. Large scraps of unidentifiable metal were discovered in the desert and quickly moved by the U.S. military to Area 51 in Nevada, where its secret base was reputed to be the repository for alien objects. What happened to those scattered scraps? They resonate on the concert stage, as the percussion soloist plays on xylophone and eight pieces of unidentified metal. In Flying, the third movement, we hear a virtuoso performance by the solo percussionist on vibraphone, mark tree, and cymbals that hover and shimmer in the air like flying saucers. In the fourth movement, the percussion soloist performs sleight-of-hand improvisations with strange sounding percussion instruments accompanied by a contrabassoon soloist and the percussion section, which is located in the balcony. This movement, entitled ???, may leave the listener wondering: is this another UFO f sighting? Pulsating with rhythms in 5/4 time, the final movement is entitled Objects. It features virtuosi drumming by the percussion soloist at warp speed to suggest the outer trappings and inner machinery of a fine-tuned alien aircraft.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Ship's Logs? - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:53:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:36:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? - Shough >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:58:51 +0100 >Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >We were told some months ago that the Brazilian military had >made some or all of their UFO files available to the public. Why >not ask them for the log of the 'Almirante Saldanha' for January >16, 1958? Then we might really know who, and how many, actually >witnessed the UFO photographed that day. >Can some of our Brazilian ufologists help on this? Hi Christopher I asked A.J.Gevaerd a similar question on-List at the time about any documentation on this case, and he pointed out that the document release was confined to the Air Force. The Almirante Saldanha was a vessel of the Navy Hydrographic Department. But actually the log has already been obtained. There are people on this List who have copies. I haven't seen a copy myself but I have some information from it. I understand that it doesn't contain any record of the UFO event whatsoever, only routine navigational and weather records. I also understand that this is
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Artifact Found In X-Ray - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 17:30:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:41:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Artifact Found In X-Ray - White >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:58:06 -0400 >Subject: Re: Artifact Found In X-Ray <snip> >I've never heard another word about either of these intriguing >reports. I wonder how much potential physical evidence continues >to evade investigators precisely because nobody is looking. Or because the objects and information about them were confiscated! A few members of our group have had implants removed and either the object is "lost" by the doctors, or is not handed over because "it doesn't belong to" the person it was taken from. Just one of our members has had multiple implants removed and handed over to him, and this individual is attempting to get them analyzed and a law suit launched. The reason he succeeded was some of the implants got infected. (We are confident these are not alien implants, as they seem to match certain patents for electronic monitoring and control
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Why No UFOs? - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 17:07:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:43:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? - Reynolds >From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:58:13 -0400 >Subject: Why No UFOs? >Thanks to the link at The Anomalist: >http://www.anomalist.com >for the RRRgroup blog: >http://rrrgroup.blogspot.com/ >I was able to read Rich Reynolds' interesting commentary >revealed in the title, Why No UFOs?, at the blog. <snip> >He asks why were no flying saucers seen over disasters, such as >those of the genocide in Dafur, the tsumani-raved areas of south >Asia, and the Hurricane Katrina wastelands. He challenges, >wondering why "flying saucer people" or "aliens," as he calls >them, are only obsessed with cows, hay fields, and an occasional >loner? Why no reconnaissance over major disasters? <snip> >So while Mr. Reynolds' question is a good one, I expect that >during a disaster, reporting a UFO is not of much interest to >the media and law enforcement authorities, and it might take >months for forteans, ufologists, and folklorists to record such >material. >Nevertheless, even though I don't necessarily think it proves >anything, I was able to quickly find enough reports to speculate >that the generalization of the RRRgroup's commentary was based >on shallow research. Mr. Coleman: You are right, of course, that my observation was (seemingly) shallow, but if a UFO event was concomitantly as important as the disaster being surveiled, wouldn't media and those afflicted have to take notice? Since they don't, I'm guessing that the UFO events you provide (thank you) were not very spectacular, or inconsequential, as most UFO episodes seem to have become. UFOs, while grist for us here at UpDates (and elsewhere), don't seem to have an existential cachet that impacts anyone, anywhere, at anytime; disasters notwithstanding. But you make a point, and I shall heed it, by looking for some
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Why No UFOs? - Sanchez-Ocejo From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:22:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:51:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? - Sanchez-Ocejo >From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:58:13 -0400 >Subject: Why No UFOs? >He asks why were no flying saucers seen over disasters, such as >those of the genocide in Dafur, the tsumani-raved areas of south >Asia, and the Hurricane Katrina wastelands. He challenges, >wondering why "flying saucer people" or "aliens," as he calls >them, are only obsessed with cows, hay fields, and an occasional >loner? Why no reconnaissance over major disasters? We received a UFO sighting report a day after Hurricane Andrew, in August 23, 1992. The UFO flow very slow and at the height of ten floor building over the Homestead area. It had windows and witnesses claim they saw shadows moving inside. The sighting last a couple of minutes. The witnesses were outside their homes, without electricity, trying to survive the aftermath. The UFO flow from north to south at about 6 p.m. Note: When Hurricane Andrew slammed into South Dade, the President was George Bush (father) and the Vice-President was Dan Quayle. Lawton Chiles was Governor of Florida. They all visited the devastation, although their length of stay didn=92t amount to anything more than a quick blink of the eye. Coincidental, President George Bush was accused of "losing control" after Hurricane Andrew struck. Once again repeating history, his son and now President George W. Bush is accused of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:01:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:54:33 -0400 Subject: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event STS-102: Another Anomalous Light Flash Event In Space This may seem to be a departure from my monomaniacal obsession with the STS-48 video, but not really. Jeff Challender has a video sequence on his web site that shows a slow-moving object that abruptly accelerates at almost the same time a brief light flash occurs. This event is very similar to the event in the STS-48 video in which a light flash occurs almost simultaneously with course changes by several objects. Most people on the list probably know the "prosaic" explanation for the STS-48 video: a space shuttle thruster firing causes both the light flash and the motion of the objects, which are supposedly small debris particles close to the shuttle. The same explanation would presumably apply to this STS-102 sequence. There were a number of apparent problems with that explanation that have been described by Jack Kasher, Mark Carlotto, and, among others, myself. There is also a problem with the rocket- firing explanation for the STS-102 sequence. What's different with the STS-102 video sequence is that it includes a display of the current Greenwich Mean Time on the status board in the Mission Control Center, which NASA TV often shows when video from the shuttle is cut off for some reason. Using the displayed GMT, the time of any event in the video can be determined to within a fraction of a second. I obtained the telemetry records for the shuttle's RCS thruster firings from the NASA FOIA office for a period of time around the video event to see if any of the firings coincided with the event. Based on the displayed GMT and the GMTs in the telemetry records, the video event occurred about 40 seconds after one shuttle thruster firing and 6 seconds before the next. Neither firing could have caused the light flash. It seems very likely that the light flashes in the STS-48 and STS-102 videos have similar causes, but if NASA's timekeeping is accurate, the cause has nothing to do with the firing of the shuttle's thrusters. The web article is at http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/STS-48/STS- 102/STS-102.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 17:32:22 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 07:56:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - >From: Franck Boitte <Franckboitte.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:51:44 EDT >Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:29:45 -0700 >Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>A French observer (Michele?) referred to UFO sightings as a >>festival of absurdity'. Without knowing who is really behind >>UFOs, why and so forth, could the more absurd displays simply be >>a way of masking origin and intent? >A member of the informal "Invisible College" and a close friend >of Vall=E9e, Aim=E9 MICHEL (deceased Dec. 1992) was one of the first >french ufologists. The citation you quote he made in his book >"Flying Saucers and the Straight Line Mystery", first published >in the USA in 1954. >His main theory that the ufos observations or reports of a >given day were disposed along straight "lines" or "corridors" >over a given country (namely France) was diversely criticized by >D. Menzel, J. Vallee, J. Scornaux and definitely proved erroneus >at its roots (the datas) by M. Jantheau. Hello Franck: Yes, 'orthotony' was roundly shot down as having little if any merit. Numerous sightings along a straight alignment are far more likely to indicate a meteor or space-junk re-entry than something truly anomalous. I never bought into 'orthotony'. I hope nobody is suggesting that I did. I was only referring to the term 'festival of absurdity', a more supportable concept. I also suggested the possibility, that absurdity might be used as a form of camouflage .. a 'pink elephant' that people simply dismiss. Best wishes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Belzer's Connections On Sci-Fi - Gammon From: Jason Gammon <LuckyHoodoo.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 01:23:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:05:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Belzer's Connections On Sci-Fi - Gammon >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:32:39 -0300 >Subject: Re: Belzer's Connections On Sci-Fi >>From: Jason Gammon <LuckyHoodoo.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:10:06 EDT >>Subject: Belzer's Connections On Sci-Fi >Just watched a re-run of Belzer's Connections on Sci-fi and was >wondering if Stanton or anybody else could give their thoughts >on the program. >>All of us, including Kark Pflock and Linda Howe, who were there >>and Jim Marrs who was on the panel thought it was absolutely >>terrible. >>Ice-T and Belzer were OK, but Garafola and Franken obviously >>hadn't paid any attention to the material that was provided. >>It was edited down and not broadcast for at least a year. Big >>studio, lots of people. >>Really bad show. >>Bad setup with Karl and I far from the panel, and Belzer often >>between us and the panel. >>Ugh. >>Stan Friedman Well, I was just suprised just how how skeptical the panel was. You would think that Belzer would have been more fare in this but I assume they were invited to be the panel based on friendship. I was really taken back by Garafola. I always thought of her as an open-mined, and quite liberal person. Too bad Ice-T wasn't more knowledgeable on the subject as his willingess to go against the others was refreshing.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 When UFOs Plied The Night Skies From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:13:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:13:42 -0400 Subject: When UFOs Plied The Night Skies Source: The Austin American-Statesman - Austin, Texas http://tinyurl.com/bloek Saturday, September 3, 2005 When UFOs Plied The Night Skies Peek into the U.S. files: declassified documents of Air Force 'Blue Book' on UFOs By Delia M. Rios Newhouse News Service WASHINGTON - "Rumors about the saucer mystery fly almost as fast as the strange sights themselves," pronounced the narrator of a 1952 Paramount newsreel, commenting on a rash of UFO sightings from New York to Washington, D.C. He added ominously: "With this evidence, the mystery thickens." And so it seemed. A comic book narrative of the time came down on the side of believers. Saucers Over Washington, D.C., blared its bold black headline. It dismissed the military's glib explanation of radar blips seen that July by National Airport flight controllers. Simply a case of temperature inversion or reflections of ground objects, insisted the Air Force brass. But what about the pilot, the cartoonist countered, who described "a bright light moving faster, at times, than a shooting star"? Well, what about it? From 1947 to 1969, Americans accounted for 12,618 reports of unidentified flying objects. It was up to investigators at Ohio's Wright-Patterson Air Force Base to determine if extraterrestrial beings, in fact, had descended from space to Earth. This work was incendiary enough to be classified. But the government bestowed a bureaucratic name just the same: "Project Blue Book." It went on until 1969. That year, the United States Air Force declared itself out of the UFO business, but not before concluding that 701 sightings remained "unidentified." Not to worry, Wright-Patterson officials assured the public in a 1985 fact sheet: "No UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security; there has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as 'unidentified' represent technological developments or principles beyond the range of present-day scientific knowledge; and there has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as 'unidentified' are extraterrestrial vehicles." Just to be clear: Should anyone feel threatened by something he or she sees, the Air Force advised, "contact a local law enforcement agency." And one last thing: "Periodically, it is erroneously stated that the remains of extraterrestrial visitors are or have been stored at Wright-Patterson AFB. There are not now, nor ever have been, any extraterrestrial visitors or equipment on Wright-Patterson Air Force Base." Did Project Blue Book really lead to such a disappointing end? The unconvinced - or the merely curious - are welcome to see for themselves. Blue Book's documents and photographs comprise 42 cubic feet of declassified records - numbering 2,000 pages per cubic foot - now housed in the Military Reference Branch of the National Archives. They can be accessed through 94 rolls of 35 mm microfilm. A glimpse inside the files finds a graphic charting coverage of UFOs - including in the popular magazines Look and Life - against subsequent spikes in sightings. There was a outbreak of them in the summer of 1952. Even Harry S. Truman got involved. A July 26, 1952, memo from Box 26 reveals that "the President had requested Gen. Landry to find out the details of the sighting that had occurred in Washington on Saturday night." That 1952 newsreel, with its breathless narration, describes how "across the river from New York City, a Jersey City volunteer air-defense observer reports that not only has he spotted a flying saucer in the nighttime sky over Manhattan, but that he's actually photographed it." What was it, really? We are left to wonder. This article is one in a series titled 'We the People: Stories
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Is There Anybody Out There? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:17:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:17:51 -0400 Subject: Is There Anybody Out There? Source: The Norwic Evening News - Norwich, UK http://tinyurl.com/99an7 03 September 2005 Is There Anybody Out There? Jane Denny 03 September 2005 To many, it is the stuff of Hollywood films, but an astronomy conference is to investigate why Norfolk is a hotspot for paranormal activity and mystery bright lights in the sky. The gathering, which is being held to mark the 60th Anniversary of the Norwich Astronomical Society (NAS), will feature four world-class speakers on the subject. They will reveal all they know about the paranormal phenomenon in the county, which boasts twice the national rate of unexplained activity, and also probe new allegations about NASA's findings in Mars and the secrets of Black Holes. Conference organiser Mark Lawrik-Thompson FRAS (Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society) and chairman of 160-member strong NAS said information that would surface at the conference would place the existence of extra terrestrial life form firmly within the realms of reality. He added it would also raise serious questions about the motives prompting the USA's federal space administration to deny them information while lending support to sightings reported within Norfolk. Already this year a league table of paranormal supernatural and mythical phenomena ranked a 234 square mile "Bermuda Triangle" area in Norfolk behind only Cornwall and Yorkshire in the spooky stakes. The Norfolk Triangle covers most of the north-eastern area of the county, which boasts well above average reports of UFO sightings from military personnel, police and families. Referring to transcripts show how coastguards were dumbfounded by strange red and green rotating lights in the skies off the East Anglian coast in the early hours of Saturday, October 5, 1996, Mr Lawrik-Thompson said: "People in Norwich and Norfolk are much more aware of the night time sky than people in many areas and cities in the UK. "Our rural surroundings encourage an interest in astronomy because the relative darkness allows people to see things occurring in space - as this transcript shows." Mr Lawrik-Thompson said representatives from paranormal groups within the area would be present at the conference to discuss local peculiarities. He said: "People will come away from this conference with an understanding of how big our galaxy and how its fits within the several billion galaxies out there. "While it can make us feel insignificant it's also awe- inspiring. Every time we discover something new about it, we discover another 10 things we don't know about." Speakers at the event will include Dr David Whitehouse, Dr Robin Catchpole and Professor Paul Murdin, Dr Heather Couper (FRAS) who has interviewed 60 of the world's leading space scientists and Nigel Henbest - the latter two of whom will be signing copies of their books. The conference, which will include trade stands and exhibitions, will open at 9.30am for registration and run until 4.30pm on Sunday, October 9 at the John Innes Centre. Norfolk-based space memorabilia retailer Space Rock will also have a stand at the event. It is open to all ages and costs =A315 plus an optional fee of =A35.50 for lunch. Call 0791 7817583 or email: nasjii.nul for a ticket. Alternatively make a cheque made payable to The Norwich Astronomical Society to: NAS-JII, Broads Acre, Upper Street, Horning, Norfolk, NR12 8NG.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Jamieson From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:30:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:00:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Jamieson >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:09:02 -0700 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:39:00 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >Call me jaded, something else? It doesn't much matter really. >Kevin wrote a long and thoughtful treatise to Dr. Salla. Dammit, >KR could have been doing something else. First of all: concerning Randle wasting his time, I think that he, in fact, provided a great summary that would be useful for those doing research (via Google searches, etc.). >I think Dr. Salla is - politely speaking - a screaming idiot, >and fear that much time is wasted as a result. >I hope that Salla is not overly offended at this. If memory >serves, he indicated or expected that not all of his statements >would be well taken. And, the characterization of Michael Salla as a "screaming idiot" is in my view an unfair and inaccurate characterization of him. But, let's just say that many of his sources of "information" are something like "screaming idiots". Soon I will post a review of Salla's ET typology paper from http://www.exopolitics.org and make specific points about the foundation premises for each basic assertion Salla makes. I think that's the type of debate he is asking for. The exopolitics mmovement is going to be very popular, I think, because we live in times where more and more people are seeking clear pictures, clear answers and a world view that makes sense of things. Salla's picture of things is clear and detailed (highly delusional though it may be, in my view). In the end, I see this vehicle (Exopolitics Institute) becoming more of an exoreligious movement. Mr. Salla proposes a group of aliens who are up to no good and who are furthermore in alliance with covert arms of our military/industrial complex. And, he also proposes the presence of many races of highly evolved aliens who should be sought out for interaction in order to serve as catalysts for our growth into some sort of "higher level". If Dr. Salla digs deeper into the credibility of his sources, he may end up with a less certain picture of things. He's a "newbie" in this field, so he may not necessarily be stuck where
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 5 Astronomer Observes Flying Triangles From: Geoff Richardson <geoff.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:22:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 20:10:53 -0400 Subject: Astronomer Observes Flying Triangles Recently we have received two reports - 06 July 2005 & 16 August, 2005 from an astronomer of his observance of a triangular-object over Warwickshire (UK) and a triangular-formation of lights which he observed a few days ago. These reports are available at: http://www.thewhyfiles.net/triangle5.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Why No UFOs? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:21:33 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 08:34:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? - Hatch >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? >>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:58:13 -0400 >>Subject: Why No UFOs? >>Thanks to the link at The Anomalist: >>http://www.anomalist.com >>for the RRRgroup blog: >>http://rrrgroup.blogspot.com/ >>I was able to read Rich Reynolds' interesting commentary >>revealed in the title, Why No UFOs?, at the blog. >>He asks why were no flying saucers seen over disasters, such >>as those of the genocide in Dafur, the tsumani-raved areas of >>south Asia, and the Hurricane Katrina wastelands. He challenges, >>wondering why "flying saucer people" or "aliens," as he calls >>them, are only obsessed with cows, hay fields, and an occasional >>loner? Why no reconnaissance over major disasters? >>.. I wondered too, then, why no correlation with disasters >>and UFOs? Or is Mr. Reynolds jumping to simple conclusions >>here .. <snip> >I think you touched on one of the major reasons and that is to the people who have been most affected by many of the events >simply aren't interested in even looking for unusual objects >much less reporting what they may have seen. Plus, in the case >of Katrina, there is little ability to communicate, no phone >service, cellular or otherwise, nor online capabilities. >Perhaps after things have settled down in a few months (or >years) there may be those that will come forward with reports of >events, but until then it simply doesn't matter. Hello Terry, Loren: Given a long human history of violence, genocide in Darfur might not attract the attention of UFOs any more. Its safer and easier to listen in to our media reports. As for Katrina, the whole sky was cloud covered. Did you see the satellite images? Ten thousand UFOs could have been hiding a swirling blanket covering several states. Nobody would have seen them. They could duck down here and there for a peek, but might not have to do that. Even in the small clear eye of the hurricane, who is going to be looking up, when the flooding, destruction and life threatening hazards are all on the ground? In the Tsunami wrecked areas of SE Asia, skies were probably clearer. There were lots of satellite images taken of the destruction, many still up on the web. Did anyone on the ground report satellites? No. All attention was on the ground level devastation again. If UFOs result from some super-advanced technology,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Salla & Stone - Hutchinson From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:54:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 08:55:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Salla & Stone - Hutchinson >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 05:06:45 -1000 >Subject: Re: Salla & Stone <snip> >As for Project Moon Dust, Brad Sparks directed me to a 1978 >FOIA letter received by Robert Todd from the US Air Force >mentioning Project Moon Dust. That's the earliest documented >reference so far to Project Moon Dust that I have found. Stone >has claimed he told Tom Adams and Gary Barker about Project >Moon Dust in 1977 while he was stationed in Europe, and there >is the possibility that Adams/Barker passed this on to Todd. >So I'm currently researching that possibility. Kevin, Dr. Salla, and List; A curious statement, since Robert Todd has not heard from you, or anyone else, concerning Moondust or Stone. I did contact him, sending him a copy of Dr. Salla's post, and here is what he has to say: "As you know, I no longer have my files, so everything I say comes from memory. I can't say for sure when I first started looking into Moondust, but 1977 sounds about right. As I recall, I saw the reference to Moondust in records that had been released by the Defense Intelligence Agency(DIA). The most substantive information on the project, however, surfaced as a result of my FOIA request to Air Force Intelligence (AFIN) that took several hundred dollars and several years to complete. My request did not seek information on Moondust at all. What it sought was to have AFIN search the retired records of their Special Studies Group (SSG) for all information related to UFOs. They had to retrieve several boxes of retired SSG files from the Archives, and then search them for any information related to UFOs. As a result of that search, they furnished several multi-page memos/letters dealing with Moondust. I used some of those records in requests to the State Department, and I know Stone was furnished some of those records from the State Department. I doubt Stone started looking into Moondust in 1974, but I'd be willing to believe him if he furnished copies of the responses he received from government agencies in 1974 that specifically mentioned Moondust. I wouldn't take his word for anything. He isn't very trustworthy, in my opinion. I don't know what newspaper clippings the good doctor refers to. Neither Adams, Barker, nor Stone furnished me with any information on Moondust. My research into the project was original, and as far as I know, I was the first person to look into it, Stone's claims notwithstanding. I know that it was my various requests that caused the Air Force to change the code name of the project. Actually, it isn't/wasn't an Air Force project per se. As far as I can tell, DIA had overall responsibility for it. I believe there is a reference to Moondust in the index to the Project Blue Book files. I think it dates from sometime in December of 1958, but again., I'm going on memory. So far as I know, that's the earliest known official reference to Moondust. I have always wondered if Moondust didn't result from the Sputnik launches, but I was unable to confirm anything about exactly when Moondust started. The government was very stingy with information on Moondust." I don't believe this has been mentioned to date during this discussion, but there is an interesting Project Moondust document, the "Intelligence Collection Guidance Letter No. 4", archived on the CUFON website: http://www.cufon.org/cufon/MoonDustICGL4.htm From Robert Todd again: "This document was cited in one of the documents released to me by AFIN from the Special Studies Group (SSG) files. I pestered AFIN about the document, but they claimed they were not able to find it. The subject of the document is "Moon Dust Reporting. Jim Klotz and his crew should be commended for locating the document. I tip my hat to them!" <snip> >So Stone was clearly a pioneer along with >Robert Todd and others in FOIA requests on UFO documents. The >idea he "ripped off" Todd's work is not supported by the >newspaper stories that show Stone FOIA work dates back to >1974. For what it is worth, Bob Todd started using the FOIA for his UFO research in 1973.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Ship's Logs - Allan From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:38:04 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 08:59:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Ship's Logs - Allan >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:53:09 +0100 >Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:58:51 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>We were told some months ago that the Brazilian military had >>made some or all of their UFO files available to the public. Why >>not ask them for the log of the 'Almirante Saldanha' for January >>16, 1958? Then we might really know who, and how many, actually >>witnessed the UFO photographed that day. >>Can some of our Brazilian ufologists help on this? >Hi Christopher >I asked A.J.Gevaerd a similar question on-List at the time about >any documentation on this case, and he pointed out that the >document release was confined to the Air Force. The Almirante >Saldanha was a vessel of the Navy Hydrographic Department. >But actually the log has already been obtained. There are people >on this List who have copies. I haven't seen a copy myself but I >have some information from it. I understand that it doesn't >contain any record of the UFO event whatsoever, only routine >navigational and weather records. I also understand that this is >the norm, not exceptional. It isn't a general activities log. But >I too would like to see this information verified. No record whatever of the UFO? This was a ship on an International Geophysical Year expedition. It was therefore on a scientific research trip, and ought to have recorded such events as anomalous atmospheric phenomena, if, as and when they occurred. I find it very hard to believe that if large numbers of people on board had indeed witnessed an unidentified object that day, and one of them had photographed it, that it would have had no mention at all in the ship's log. It would surely be classed as an unexplained aerial event. If the log is as you say, this can only count as a negative for all those who insist a genuine UFO was seen. I realise this risks reopening the long-raging debate of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:12:21 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:02:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Sparks >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 06:39:09 -1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 <snip> >>But please, don't say that we routinely dismiss these claims >>because that simply is not true. We all have looked at them in >>the past. A lot of time and effort has been expended in checking >>them out. Philip Corso added nothing to our knowledge of the >>Roswell case. He gave us no evidence, couldn't tell us where to >>look for the secret documents, had huge holes in his story that >>should have told any rational investigator that Corso was less >>than honest, and yet, here we are, still arguing the merits (and >>I use that word advisedly) of his tales. Nevermind that he >>couldn't even get some of the basic facts right or that he >>believed Frank Kaufmann who has been proven to be another of the >>frauds. Notice - below - how Salla completely ignores what Kevin Randle says about Corso's endorsment of Frank Kaufmann's false tale - above. >You say Corso was "less than honest" but as I've shown in my >recent debate with Brad Sparks, there are a number of historical >documents that support Corso's claim that he was a staffer >assigned to the NSC by virture of his membership of the >Operations Coordinating Board (OCB). Brad Sparks tells us that >the 1965 FBI report which clearly identified Corso's service on >the OCB NSC was based on what the FBI were told by Corso's boss >Lt Gen Trudeau, and that Trudeau was not an expect on the NSC >and wrongly assumed that the OCB was part of the NSC. So >basically Trudea was wrong to start with, and the FBI was wrong >to simply accept Trudeau's description of Corso's employment >with the OCB in the NSC. This kind of convuluted historical >revisionism by Sparks is accepted by yourself and other UFO >researchers as proof that Corso lied. Hmm, and I'm the one >accused of being soft headed. The FBI documents themselves describe the sources for its info on Corso. In the early 60's before it was abolished the OCB was a part of the NSC. In 1954-6 when Corso was on the OCB staff writing up unclassified propaganda tracts the OCB was _not_ a part of the NSC and it suffered from that lack of NSC clout. As a result, President Eisenhower had to order the July 1957 merger of the OCB into the NSC - long after Corso was gone. These are the historical facts which you seek to overturn by trickery. The fact the OCB was not part of the NSC was the law of the land according to the Executive Orders that set it up that way. It was the view of the top expert on the scene at the time this was happening in the 50's, William H. Jackson, Special Asst for National Security Affairs, who was in a better place to understand the history and functioning of the NSC he was working on every single day than some faceless gangster-statistic bureaucrats in the FBI in the 60's or an Army R&D general also with very little interaction with the NSC. It was Jackson who reported to the President on the problems of OCB lacking NSC clout and got the President to order OCB merged with NSC to bolster OCB's standing - after Corso was gone and not a part of any such merger. Your "methodology" if it can even be called that, is to twist and distort evidence or reverse facts to support the UFO liars you have chosen to be apologist for. You try to find someone somewhere at sometime who _mis_understood a situation exactly the way you like it then you elevate them into supreme experts on the subject, without regard to their distance in time or space, or bureacratic remoteness or to the relevant historical facts that are being violated in this process of apologia for liars. So if Corso lied and claimed he worked for the NSC when in actuality it was the OCB your "methodology" is to try to find
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:33:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:05:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Hatch >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 08:28:20 -1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:09:02 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 <snip> >>Call me jaded, something else? It doesn't much matter really. >>Kevin wrote a long and thoughtful treatise to Dr. Salla. Dammit, >>KR could have been doing something else. >>I think Dr. Salla is - politely speaking - a screaming idiot, >>and fear that much time is wasted as a result. >>I hope that Salla is not overly offended at this. If memory >>serves, he indicated or expected that not all of his statements >>would be well taken. -LH >I agree, you are acting jaded. Ad hominem attacks typically >happen when there's an inability to follow arguments the nuances >of which are not seen or appreciated. >I invite you to identify which of my statements most concern >you and I will be happy to clarify my position. Oh heck Doctor, I suppose I should apologize for the ad-hominem, an inaccurate one (screaming idiot). You don't scream, if anything you are polite to a fault. If I wanted to start a dialogue, I suppose I could cherry-pick some items from your own web pages: http://www.exopolitics.org/ and http://www.galacticdiplomacy.com/GD-Seminars.htm There I find links to "Introduction to 11 alien races"... and then "Introduction to 11 MORE alien races". This is in the Galactic Diplomacy Contact Seminars section. Following those links, I find "telempathic interactions with dolphins" (a typo no doubt) and other goodies in a 7 day package priced at $1899, major credit cards accepted. I note [alien] "groups from the Pleiades, Vega, Alpha Centauri, Procyon, Tau Ceti and Sirius B, as well as other intriguing star visitors" and their contacts with "the highly telepathic/ empathic dolphins who have close ties to several visiting ET civilizations." I'm sure there is much more to chew on, but I prefer not to. I have neither the time nor the patience to sift through it. I'm not about to write 22 kilobyte rebuttals of your theories and claims, not with deafening BS alarms ringing in my head. Friedman, Randle, Clark and others have already commented at length. A quick glance at the first link above should suffice: Artworks of Nordic space-brothers types... at bottom a banner link to Paola Harris and her Cosmic Federation. Yahoo groups statements like: "Prophet Yahweh has been able to successfully 'summon' UFOs on a number of occasions" don't help much either. Yeah, I know, Yahweh's crazier stuff was caused by electronic mind control. There is no need to answer really, I've seen more than enough. Those interested can follow the links.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: The 'Exopolitics Flap' - Jamieson From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 19:38:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:39:30 -0400 Subject: Re: The 'Exopolitics Flap' - Jamieson >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:39:58 -0400 >Subject: The 'Exopolitics Flap' >Last night, on Errol's Strange Days... Indeed program, Stephen >G. Bassett, Errol Bruce Knapp, and Victor Viggiani kind of >'squared-off' on the use of the new term Exopolitics. >Stephen Bassett was in favour of using that term as a useful >"hook" with which to grab public attention to the "truth >embargo" imposed largely by the U.S. government. >Errol, on the other hand, stated that coming up with yet a new >term to add to the jumble of terms already in use in the field >of ufology is not a good idea. And further, Errol decried the >infusion of ideas into "exopolitics" which he feels are >confusing at best, and discrediting at worst. At one point on >this list, the term "space brothers" was mentioned. >As a member of the general public, I don't find a thing wrong >with 'exopolitics'.' Like many other fields of endeavour, it's >not unusual to have different sub-fields within the umbrella >term. 'Medicine' is a good example. Or 'law'. >Ufology has sub-fields too, such as sightings, physical trace >cases, detection by instrumentation, and abductions. >As recently discussed on the List, I see two clearly separate >sub-fields developing within the Exopolitics arena: >- The efforts to break the truth embargo and bring about full >disclosure of everything government knows about UFOs and ETs (my >particular interest) >- Discussion about how humanity might relate to ET >civilizations, at the point where they establish full public >contact. >And _any_ field has quacks, medicine again being one example. >If someone feels that certain individuals who are carrying out >discussion and activity in one of the two exopolitical sub- >fields above are promoting disinformation, how does that render >the _term_ itself as somehow "bad" or discrediting? >I'm thoroughly mystified as to why the term exopolitics causes >such emotional reactions. I'm really delighted that people >within the UFO truth movement have begun to seriously shine the >spotlight on government secrecy, instead of just accepting it. Hi Eleanor, I was in charge of the demonstration at the White House that for a short while did put a national spotlight on this issue. The press coverage was incredibly extensive. (CNN Headline News kept replaying our story, Rush Limbaugh opened up a show attacking us, newspapers everywhere carried the AP story, and several of us did many, many radio and tv interviews before the actual demonstration.) I cajoled James Moseley to get up and speak, knowing he would be "up front". He was gracious, saying he admired our spirit, but to be effective we were going to have a lot more numbers than we had at that demonstration. Herein lies the problem: given what's going on in the world now, UFO secrecy is likely very low on the totem pole of people's interest. During the several years of Operation Right To Know's existence, we had many demonstrations. And, we held them during times much less dramatic than now. That was the time when I think a movement focusing on dislodging UFO secrets from the shadows might have been possible. I suggest hitching your wagon to efforts that focus on the growth of government secrecy policies in general, during this Administration. That type of focus would fit in nicely with the nature of the dramas we are experiencing nowadays. Working to create more transparency and openness in our federal government may just have the side effect of exposing some key classified information related to UFOs. Don't get me wrong. I think the Exopolitical Movement under Michael Salla is going to grow to large dimensions. But, it's not going to grab our attention, as a people and nation, in the immediate future (so far as I can see). Even though I suspect he won't be a major figure on our political stage, I do think the Exopolitical Institute will become a very large organization compared to the UFO organizations that have been formed over the last few decades. Dr. Salla has come up with, IMO, the perfect formula which will be more of a draw than, say, the Richard Boylan Movement or the Steven Greer Movement. Why? Because Salla's presentation is a hybridization of varying points of view and can accomodate the sentiments and opinions of a broader group of people. I'm not saying that he deliberately designed this as a marketing
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 UK UFO TV Program Central Extra From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:33:26 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:43:28 -0400 Subject: UK UFO TV Program Central Extra UK TV viewers in the Central region will be able to see a program on UFOs and alien abductions at 7.30pm this evening: http://tinyurl.com/94dck The ITV 1 Central show features a report on UFOs and abductions, followed by a panel discussion in which I participated, along with James Basil, Wendy Grossman, Professor David Hughes and Tony Youens.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Why No UFOs? - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:34:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:48:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? - Reynolds >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:21:33 -0700 >Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? <snip> >Given a long human history of violence, genocide in Darfur >might not attract the attention of UFOs any more. Its >safer and easier to listen in to our media reports. >As for Katrina, the whole sky was cloud covered. Did you >see the satellite images? Ten thousand UFOs could have >been hiding a swirling blanket covering several states. >Nobody would have seen them. They could duck down here >and there for a peek, but might not have to do that. >Even in the small clear eye of the hurricane, who is >going to be looking up, when the flooding, destruction >and life threatening hazards are all on the ground? >In the Tsunami wrecked areas of SE Asia, skies were >probably clearer. There were lots of satellite images >taken of the destruction, many still up on the web. >Did anyone on the ground report satellites? No. >All attention was on the ground level devastation >again. >If UFOs result from some super-advanced technology, >how hard would it be for them to tap into the internet? >If this idea has any merit, I'll wager they have >high-speed connections, and not just one or two. Mr. Hatch: Your observations are tongue-in-cheek (as is your wont) I'm guessing. If you posit that alien visitors could tap into the human internet, let me propose that we are rats, in a maze, and the other-worlders are merely watching us, since we may be, as Stan Friedman and others have stated, seeded or castaways metaphorically like the convicts sent to Australia from Britain. Or how about this: the "alien visitors" caused the hurricane, tsunami, and "hipmotized" the genocide-instigators in Darfur to do their (the alien's) dirty, experimental work. The fact is that no UFOs were spotted by anyone, not even those forced to watch the sky or storm-trackers in the air during Katrina or anywhere else, ever. Mr. Coleman cites some UFO presences during a few disasters but, again, UFOs did not factor into the collective memory or media and thus remain inconsequential no matter how hard some UpDaters would have it otherwise. UFOs remain concerned with lonely aircraft, people adrift in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 UFO Enthusiasts Share Eerie Stories From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:58:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:58:51 -0400 Subject: UFO Enthusiasts Share Eerie Stories Source: The Wanstead And Woodford Guardian - Essex, UK http://tinyurl.com/9ccm3 5th September 2005 UFO Enthusiasts Share Eerie Stories By Mark Killiner UFO enthusiasts enjoyed a special evening devoted to the phenomenon, organised by Waltham Forest's own paranormal investigators. Eerie Investigations hosted the event in the MS Action Centre, Walthamstow, and attracted a large crowd, some travelling from as far away as Southend. Local unidentified flying object expert Roy Lake gave a talk on UFOs, sharing the highlights of his 50 years of experience with the crowd. He also showed slides of unexplained objects in the skies compiled by himself and other ufologists. Chris Martin, the UFO author and documentary maker, was present and signed copies of his books and DVDs. Eerie Investigations' Karen Frandsen, Ian Pleasance and Rosie Nicchitta opened a discussion with the audience on a range of connected topics, such as ghosts, crop circles and weird coincidences. The team plan to run more events throughout the year. For more information visit their website www.eerie investigations.com. Anyone wishing to share their paranormal experiences with the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Fate Mag 'Roswell Explained - Again' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:10:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:10:31 -0400 Subject: Fate Mag 'Roswell Explained - Again' Roswell Explained - Again by Kevin Randle FATE Magazine - September 2005 "The Roswell UFO crash case has been solved - yet again. Nick Redfern, writing in his new book, Body Snatchers in the Desert, has proposed a somewhat new but not extraterrestrial explanation. He suggests that what fell in Roswell was an American high-altitude experiment that contained the deformed and mutated bodies of Japanese captured at the close of World War II. The object that carried them was a huge balloon modeled after the balloon bombs launched during the war and a wooden flying-wing-type craft designed by the German Horten brothers that was taken from the Nazis." <snip> More at: http://www.fatemag.com/2005_09art2.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Fate Mag 'A Response To Kevin Randle' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:12:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:12:31 -0400 Subject: Fate Mag 'A Response To Kevin Randle' A Response To Kevin Randle by Nick Redfern FATE Magazine - September 2005 "Kevin Randle's review of my book, Body Snatchers in the Desert: The Horrible Truth at the Heart of the Roswell Story, makes a number of comments and observations."..... <snip> More at:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 UFOs Are Real But The Tories Are Acting From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:25:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:25:32 -0400 Subject: UFOs Are Real But The Tories Are Acting Source: The Globe & Mail - Toronto, Canada http://www.theglobeandmail.com/ September 3, 2005 Ottawa Notebook: UFOs Are Real, But The Tories Are Acting By Jane Taber The Globe and Mail Another world Paul Hellyer has been a Liberal and a Conservative, has run for the leadership of both parties and founded two more, and will announce this month that he believes UFOs exist. Yes, indeed, the 82-year-old former defence minister in Lester Pearson's government is to address the Exopolitics Toronto Symposium on UFO Disclosure and Planetary Directions at U of T's Convocation Hall on Sept. 25. My role is really to say publicly for the first time that I believe that what we call unidentified flying objects are real," he said, ". . . and that people should know more about them and some of the implications of the fact they exist and that they've been observing our planet for more than half a century now." Yesterday, he said he has never seen a UFO and he had remained unconvinced of their existence until quite recently. In fact, as defence minister (he is known for controversially unifying the forces), Mr. Hellyer said, he received reports of UFO sightings but didn't pay much attention to them. Lately, however, his reading on the subject and other evidence has him convinced they do exist. And he says this has policy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Salla & Stone - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:51:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:35:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Salla & Stone - Kaeser >From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:54:14 -0400 >Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 05:06:45 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Salla & Stone ><snip> >>As for Project Moon Dust, Brad Sparks directed me to a 1978 >>FOIA letter received by Robert Todd from the US Air Force >>mentioning Project Moon Dust. That's the earliest documented >>reference so far to Project Moon Dust that I have found. Stone >>has claimed he told Tom Adams and Gary Barker about Project >>Moon Dust in 1977 while he was stationed in Europe, and there >>is the possibility that Adams/Barker passed this on to Todd. >>So I'm currently researching that possibility. Gray Barker, rather than "Gary Barker", is an interesting charactor in the UFO field, but his work has been dismissed by most traditional UFO researchers. That he may have been told about "Moon Dust" is interesting, but not worth much. Gray enjoyed playing the crowds and making up information to see how people would respond. He apparently came to view the UFO phenomenon as game that he enjoyed playing and became an active part in it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:26:46 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:37:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: UFOUpdates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:01:46 -0500 >Subject: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >What's different with the STS-102 video sequence is that it >includes a display of the current Greenwich Mean Time on the >status board in the Mission Control Center.... >Using the displayed GMT, the time of any event in the video can >be determined to within a fraction of a second. I obtained the >telemetry records for the shuttle's RCS thruster firings from >the NASA FOIA office for a period of time around the video >event >to see if any of the firings coincided with the event. I applaud your use of FOIA for the telemetry records. However, you should also request (from NASA) the video segment you are talking about and ask for telemetry timetags too. This will confirm to you that the flashes occur at the 12:30:39 and 12:30:40 firings (which it does). You can likely count on those time tags more so than the "estimate" from the MCC clocks. I doubt NASA would tamper with them since they didn't erase the "UFOs" in the videos. The segment has the camera pointed at Earth (still in darkness), but the Shuttle is in light. When the camera zooms out the brightness of the surrounding hardware of the Shuttle is apparent and the darkness of "space" (really mostly the Earth) is absolute. No "UFOs" are visible. However, when the camera zooms in to look at Earth, the only reminder that the Shuttle is in light is the glare on the camera lens. With tiny crystals near the Shuttle being illuminated by the Sun, they can easily be affected by the thrusters. Viewing the video segment, why don't you mention all those other "UFOs" that are flying by (reminds me of Stars Wars spacecraft quantities Lucas likes to show)? Are you telling me that we have a swarm of UFOs passing in front of Shuttle cameras (usually at dusk and dawn) which implies that the entire LEO and below orbit has the SAME frequencies of spacecraft thus implying we have been invaded? And, to add icing to the cake, the video isn't edited prior to broadcast to eliminate such objects and thus calm the fears of the unsuspecting public? These really seem to be no more than debris/ice, similar to many other video segments. An interesting video segment that may be you can look into is the only from the STS-114 recent Shuttle flight. It occurred at GMT 218/13:51 (orbit 174, the SAME orbit as the STS-102 one). I like it because you have a bunch of "ice crystals/UFOs" in an
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Why No UFOs? - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:05:33 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:39:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? - Dickenson >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:21:33 -0700 >Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:33:23 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: Why No UFOs? >>>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 17:58:13 -0400 >>>Subject: Why No UFOs? >Given a long human history of violence, genocide in Darfur >might not attract the attention of UFOs any more. Its >safer and easier to listen in to our media reports. Hello Larry, Only casually read this thread, just struck me that while historical events previously attracting UFos were battles, disasters etc, they were also peopled by those of intense "faiths" of some kind - 1) battles - remember the surrounded Celts (or was it Romans) who began a night of prayer before being slaughtered? And behold - the morning sky was filled with "shields" or "swords" and the enemy fled - several of that sort of thing, recall some things like it from Greek warfare histories 2) Fatima type event - many people congregated, for a religious reason, where the emotional ether would be similarly full of highly charged "messages" So, if some of those mass sightings were "responses" perhaps we're not `summoning' them as clearly or strongly as we once did. Cheers Ray D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Operation Saucer Re-Opened By Brazilian UFO From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:09:50 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:48:36 -0400 Subject: Operation Saucer Re-Opened By Brazilian UFO The Brazilian UFO Magazine, Revista UFO, re-opens the military program "Operation Saucer" in the Amazon After a few days visiting the areas affected by the phenomena called 'chupa-chupa' (suck-suck) in the Amazon, Brazilian UFO Magazine has decided to re-open all files and procedures involved in the military program "Operation Saucer", conducted by the Brazilian Air Force in the Amazon and recently made public. The magazine team concluded that there is much more info to be learned from the witnesses and victims of the 'chupa-chupa', which was generally a beam of light emitted from egg and cylinder-shaped objects towards people in several locations of the jungle, extracting their blood. It is estimated that over 1,000 people where attacked, and at least 80+ have been examined by local physicians. Brazilian UFO Magazine has conducted new investigations on the islands of Colares and Mosqueiro, close to Belem, Para State=B4s capital. New, amazing reports from old and recent cases were obtained, and show a large variety of phenomena detail. The attacks have decreased, but still continue. It is largely known that the Brazilian Air Force conducted military, official investigations of the 'chupa-chupa' in the Amazon, that were kept secret until a few years ago, when info was published by Brazilian UFO Magazine. Some of the info of what was called 'Operation Saucer' was used in the magazine's campaign 'UFOs =96 Freedom of Information Now', which resulted in a partial opening of secret files in Brazil. Operation Saucer is the only known, and documented, military program officially designed to investigate UFOs in the world. The magazine team has evidence to show that the Brazilian Air Force is still keeping much of the results of the Operation Saucer secret, specially details of direct, close encounterz that a few of its members had in the jungle with UFOs and their crews. There are clear signs of abduction of military personnel and its known, now, that high authorities in the Air Force had close knowledge of the facts. Because of all that, Brazilian UFO Magazine has started a new section called "Amazon Dossier" which will carry, in the next editions, full reports of new sightings and attacks, first-hand interviews with physicians, journalists, researchers and authorities, plus astonishing info from military undercover sources, all combined with on-site and updated info on both the 'chupa-chupa' and the Operation Saucer. Edition 114 of Brazilian UFO Magazine will be available in Portuguese after September 12, and in English 30 days later.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Ship's Logs - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:39:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:12:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Ship's Logs - Dickenson >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:38:04 +0100 >Subject: Re: Ship's Logs >>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:53:09 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:58:51 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >I find it very hard to believe that if large numbers of people >on board had indeed witnessed an unidentified object that day, >and one of them had photographed it, that it would have had no >mention at all in the ship's log. It would surely be classed as >an unexplained aerial event. >If the log is as you say, this can only count as a negative for >all those who insist a genuine UFO was seen. Nope, depending on the setting I think it's probably fairly common to make a separate record of 'sensitive' events - with or without a coded reference in official Log or Diary. [As a Sergeant acting-Orderly Officer I had to sort out an "attempted murder" report in an adjoining regiment's area; both men belonged to that regiment and the woman was a regimental wife. In the official diary I initialed only my time of departure (alone) and time of return - anything in between was scribbled on loose leaf paper for the two Regimental Sergeant Majors - top sergeants - to act on. Luckily no dead bodies and I was in transit - so heard no more.] Official diaries might 'confirm', but don't think they 'prove' anything. Cheers Ray D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Musical UFOs - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:59:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 12:15:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Musical UFOs - Sandow >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:31:14 +0100 >Subject: Musical UFOs >A couple of years ago there was a little exchange on UpDates >about pieces of classical music which have a UFO connection. >I've recently bought an interesting CD in the Naxos American >Classics series by the composer Michael Daugherty. It include >a percussion concerto featuring the Evelyn Glennie. <snip> John, everyone, This piece - titled, UFO - has been mentioned here before. Michael Daugherty is one of the leading classical composers in the US, certainly one of the composers most often performed by American orchestras. He also has a unique perspective, among mainstream classical composers. Almost all his pieces are about American popular culture. He wrote an opera about Jackie Onassis, for instance, and his most famous piece is a chamber work called, Dead Elvis, in which a solo bassoonist dresses up like Elvis. Thus the UFO piece - and I agree with you John; it's a nice thing to hear - doesn't proceed from any special interest in UFOs. After tackling Elvis, Route 66, Jackie O, and Liberace (in a terrific piano concerto called, Le Tombau de Liberace, among many other American subjects, Michael decided to write something about the American interest in UFOs. Funny sidelight. When the piece was premiered by the New York Philharmonic, Michael's manager asked me to look over the program notes. They were full of UFO errors - among them the familiar mistake of saying that the UFO age in America began with Roswell. I suggested corrections, but the Philharmonic didn't bother with them. Lately, Michael seems to have turned away from pop culture. The last piece of his I heard was a violin concerto based on Frida Kahlo's life and paintings. It was very powerful music, and not
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Phillip Corso & NSC - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:39:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:14:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Phillip Corso & NSC - Gehrman >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:12:21 EDT >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 ><snip> >The FBI documents themselves describe the sources for its info >on Corso. In the early 60's before it was abolished the OCB was >a part of the NSC. In 1954-6 when Corso was on the OCB staff >writing up unclassified propaganda tracts the OCB was _not_ a >part of the NSC Brad, Everything you've written about Philip Corso implies that you feel he wasn't a player in D.C. during this period and did nothing but churn out "unclassified propaganda tracts". If so, then why did Richard Russell decide to use Corso's intelligence skills to investigate the Kennedy assassination. Russell was chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee at the time, and had his pick from the entire intelligence community, yet he relied on Corso. Why? And why did J. Edgar even care abut Corso? If you're so hot to make Corso a has-been wind bag, then why not
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 36 From: John Hayes <John.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:55:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:26:21 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 36 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan.nul> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 10, Number 36 September 7, 2005 Editor: Joseph Trainor E-mail: Masinaigan.nul Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ UFO, BLACK HELICOPTERS SEEN IN SOUTHERN FRANCE On Thursday, August 18, 2005, eyewitness Pierre L. reported, "I witnessed at 7:25 p.m. over La Cadiere d'Azur, in the department of Var (France), several black helicopters without visible (identification) markings hovering in the sky. They were present when a glossy cylinder rose from the top of the hill called Gros Cerveau (French for Big Brain--J.T.). The object then changed direction while going horizontally from the level of the clouds to the north-northeast." "Two black helicopters stayed hovering in the area for another ten or fifteen minutes" after the cylindrical UFO departed. On Friday, August 19, 2005, at 7 p.m., eyewitness Gaspard W. reported, "I live on the heights of Nice," a large city on France's Mediterranean Sea coastline, "and I observed with my own eyes a similar cylindrical object over the Alpes-Maritimes. The object was at an altitude of between 7,000 and 9,000 meters (23,100 to 29,700 feet) and also its trajectory was perfectly rectilinear, more or less, from the southwest to the northeast. My observation took place at approximately 7 p.m." "Atmospheric conditions were perfect, no clouds or pollution. The object moved with a constant speed similar to that of a normal aeroplane. I could clearly distinguish a bulge at the center, of a slightly darker appearance than the remainder of the structure." On Saturday night, August 27, 2005, a mutilated horse was found in a pasture in the department of Ile de France. The case was reported on TV Channel 3 in Paris, and the news show 12/14 devoted an entire segment to it. According to French ufologist Robert Fischer, "a report from the stablehand who looked into the death of a foal which had been found mutilated in a strange manner" was presented on the news show. The foal "had obviously not been eaten, but certain body parts, in a patchwork operation, had been removed, said the animal's owner. The owner blamed a neighbour's Alsatian dog for the death, but veterinary experts who examined the goal doubted that 'wounds so precise' could have been inflicted by a dog." Earlier in the month, on Monday, August 8, 2005, at 11:42 p.m., "we observed in the sky an object of triangular shape pass across the sky" in Gard, a village near Nimes" in southern France," the witnesses reported, "We were on the terrace looking at the stars. It was beautiful weather, no cloud, the sky was perfectly clear, when suddenly my friend saw a light of an orange colour-- the same colour as a sodium lamp--of a rather large size, which came from the west." "When the object passed overhead, we saw that it was composed of 13 orange lights laid out in an equilateral triangle. The size of the object was about the width of a fist held at the end of an extended arm. The triangle seemed to slip through the sky, no noise at all. It moved in the sky in a straight line from west to east towards (the constellation) Cassiopeia, then swerved as it passed behind the house and where we lost sight of it. The duration was very short, less than 10 minutes. This light in the sky was approximately 50 degrees above the horizon." (Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer pour ces nouvelles.) UFOs SIGHTED IN ESSEX AND SOUTH YORKSHIRE On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 9:15 p.m., M. Little was a passenger in a car driving on motorway M25 at Stapleford Abbots, Essex, UK when he saw unusual lights approaching from the southwest. "I was being driven around the M25 by a friend when we spotted a group of five to six orange spheres to our right (approximately southwest--M.L.). They appeared to be flying in a loose, slow formation. I am a pilot, and I feel able to say with some certainty that what I saw in the sky was not an aircraft. It had not the right colour for nighttime navigation lights, was not ground based (it was moving--M.L.), nor was it flares or balloons." "As we continued driving, I opened the car's sun roof and continued to observe the object's track to the northeast" as they were "changing their relative positions but remaining in a tight group. I then spotted two further objects to the east where the five or six were first sighted. We lost sight of the objects so we took the exit from the motorway." "The spheres had a deep orange colour, the appearance of a large disc. It was at a low level, under 5,000 meters (16,500 feet). They were slow rising, appeared stationary at times and were very difficult to photograph while moving in the car." On Friday, August 26, 2005, N. Shawe was outdoors in his hometown of East Dene, Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK when he spotted a UFO. "It was an oval glowing shape in the sky," Shawe reported, "It was bluish-grey and oval in shape. It moved slowly and deliberately across the sky. This was at about 10 p.m. It moved slowly and erratically. Eventually, we didn't see it any longer at all." (Email Form Reports.) LARGE ORANGE UFO SEEN IN EASTERN SPAIN "A large object with an orange center was seen the night of Wednesday, August 31, 2005, in the region of Valencia in eastern Spain by hundreds of eyewitnesses, who reported the phenomenon to the (Spanish) Center for Emergencies." "Hundreds of telephone calls reported an unidentified flying object that resembled 'a large ball of fire with an orange or yellowish-green center,' that moved at great speed through the sky in a horizontal trajectory to the northeast." "Reports were received from Valencia, Alicante and Castellon, the three provinces along Spain's Mediterranean shore." "The first report came in at 9:06 p.m. from a vineyard owner in Alfafar, who said he had seen a UFO 'descending in an easterly direction.'" "The second sighting occurred at 9:11 p.m. from a resident who was driving between Cabanes and Castellon when his car engine suddenly died. He confirmed that the object was heading east towards the Mediterranean Sea." "In Rojales, a town in Alicante province, at 9:12 p.m., witnesses on the ground observed 'an enormous ball of brilliant white light' that moved slowly in a straight northeasterly direction." (See the Spanish EFE News Agency report for September 1, 2005. Muchas gracias a Brunilda Barros y Mauricio Goncalves para estas noticias.) BLACK DAYLIGHT DISC SEEN IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC On Monday, August 29, 2005, at 12:50 p.m., Carlos R. Pena was at his office building in downtown Santo Domingo, the capital of the Dominican Republic, when he "was able to witness a completely black UFO at a distance between 1,000 and 3,000 meters (3,300 to 10,000 feet--J.T.)." "I say this because the object flew between a low rain cloud and medium-altitude white clouds," Carlos explained, "We know that clouds are usually at an altitude of 1,500 to 2,500 meters (5,000 to 8,000 feet--J.T.)." "The object was travelling from west to east over Santo Domingo, but its shape was hard to describe. I believe it was something that appeared to be vertical-- something like the alleged 'flying humanoids' that have been seen over Mexico in recent weeks. I cannot relate it to any other object, whether a balloon, cloud, airplane, etc. on account of its very strange shape." "Unfortunately, I did not have time for a photograph, as the sighting lasted only 40 seconds, and I did not have a camera at hand. The object was flying in an even, single-row movement, except for one moment when it moved in a soft curve, which I estimate at 5 to 10 degrees" off its original course. (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Carlos R. Pena para estas noticias.) UFO PHOTOGRAPHED OVER REUNION ISLAND An amateur photographer snapped a photo of a daylight disc UFO over the island of Reunion, a French colony in the Indian Ocean 800 kilometers (500 miles) east of Madagascar. "David had the surprise of his life at exactly 7:48 a.m." on Sunday, August 28, 2005 "when he first tried his digital camera. Standing on his terrace in St. Joseph Heights, he took photos of the (seaside) panorama when his attention focused on the screen of the device." "Something clearly showed in the sky...but what?" "While downloading the image into his home computer, David realized that he had photographed an unidentified flying object." "A native of St. Joseph for 25 years and fascinated with photography, David at first believed he was hallucinating when he saw the picture he had shot early yesterday morning." "'When looking at the (camera's) monitor screen, I saw a shape in the sky,' David said, 'I thought there was something wrong with the screen, but while gazing I quickly realized it was actually there--a grey shape in the sky.'" "The shape appeared in only one of his photos." "'It is incomprehensible. The screen shows 7:48 a.m. as the time for the first photo. The sky is clear. One can see the city and the sea below. Now, on the next picture, taken at 7:49 a.m., the landscape is identical to the first but one can clearly see the grey object, which stands out against the blue of the (Indian Ocean) sky.'" "I wanted to test the maximal focus of the camera, so I used the 1/4000th setting to take the photos. The object is clearly visible. My camera--a semiprofessional digital Canon device--has 8 million pixels, so I could zoom in on it, and, even after this, the image remains sharp." "But I am unable to say what it is." (See the French newspaper Le Journal de la Reunion for August 29, 2005, "A UFO in St. Joseph's sky." Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer pour cette article de journal.) Well, that's it for this week. The news from Mars and Saturn will have to wait until we're back in seven days with more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from all around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2005 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/submit/sightings.shtml -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Home to UFO Roundup, Encounters With Aliens On This Day, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert Rosales), Filer's Files, UFO News UK and more... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Salla From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:29:57 -1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:30:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Salla >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:12:21 EDT >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 06:39:09 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 ><snip> >>>But please, don't say that we routinely dismiss these claims >>>because that simply is not true. We all have looked at them in >>>the past. A lot of time and effort has been expended in checking >>>them out. Philip Corso added nothing to our knowledge of the >>>Roswell case. He gave us no evidence, couldn't tell us where to >>>look for the secret documents, had huge holes in his story that >>>should have told any rational investigator that Corso was less >>>than honest, and yet, here we are, still arguing the merits (and >>>I use that word advisedly) of his tales. Nevermind that he >>>couldn't even get some of the basic facts right or that he >>>believed Frank Kaufmann who has been proven to be another of the >>>frauds. >Notice - below - how Salla completely ignores what Kevin Randle >says about Corso's endorsment of Frank Kaufmann's false tale - >above. Well, weren't experienced researchers such as Kevin Randle also fooled by Kaufman? Does Kevin Randle lack credibility because he was fooled? Corso took Kaufman at face value since the latter obviously had information consistent with Corso's recollection of information in the Roswell file and his sighting of a dead EBE on July 6, 1947. If Corso said Kaufman was at Roswell according to the Roswell files, well that would be a different story. >>You say Corso was "less than honest" but as I've shown in my >>recent debate with Brad Sparks, there are a number of historical >>documents that support Corso's claim that he was a staffer >>assigned to the NSC by virture of his membership of the >>Operations Coordinating Board (OCB). Brad Sparks tells us that >>the 1965 FBI report which clearly identified Corso's service on >>the OCB NSC was based on what the FBI were told by Corso's boss >>Lt Gen Trudeau, and that Trudeau was not an expect on the NSC >>and wrongly assumed that the OCB was part of the NSC. So >>basically Trudea was wrong to start with, and the FBI was wrong >>to simply accept Trudeau's description of Corso's employment >>with the OCB in the NSC. This kind of convuluted historical >>revisionism by Sparks is accepted by yourself and other UFO >>researchers as proof that Corso lied. Hmm, and I'm the one >>accused of being soft headed. >The FBI documents themselves describe the sources for its info >on Corso. In the early 60's before it was abolished the OCB was >a part of the NSC. In 1954-6 when Corso was on the OCB staff >writing up unclassified propaganda tracts the OCB was _not_ a >part of the NSC and it suffered from that lack of NSC clout. As >a result, President Eisenhower had to order the July 1957 merger >of the OCB into the NSC - long after Corso was gone. These are >the historical facts which you seek to overturn by trickery. If readers carefully examine what you said above it is clear that you have totally evaded what the FBI report said and trying to shift attention away from this historical document. It described Corso during 1954-56 as being "then assigned to the Operations Coordinating Board (OCB) National Security Council." It can't be any clearer than that! Here is a historical document that clearly describes Corso's service and you ignore it, making convulated claims about Executive Orders that dealt with the reorganization of the OCB but in no way impacted on the direct running of the OCB which was always functionally a part of the NSC since 1953 as I've argued before. I really don't know why other veteran researchers simply point out your flawed reasoning since a historical document exists directly refuting your claim and backing up Corso's testimony. I thought documentary evidence was a valid research method for "serious UFO research". It seems only when it supports one's argument. >The fact the OCB was not part of the NSC was the law of the land >according to the Executive Orders that set it up that way. It >was the view of the top expert on the scene at the time this was >happening in the 50's, William H. Jackson, Special Asst for >National Security Affairs, who was in a better place to >understand the history and functioning of the NSC he was working >on every single day than some faceless gangster-statistic >bureaucrats in the FBI in the 60's or an Army R&D general also >with very little interaction with the NSC. Wow, the gangster-statistic bureaucrats in the FBI can't get it right according to you so we should ignore the historical documents provided by the FBI. You are very selective as to which historical documents you choose to accept and which you reject. As for Eisenhower's top expert on the scene at the time, it was in fact Robert Cutler and not William Jackson. Cutler was Eisenhower's Special Assistant for National Security Affairs from 1953-55 and 1957-58. In contrast, William Jackson was "(Acting) Special Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs in 1956" to relieve Cutler for a period. Your description of Jackson as the "top expert" is again another unsubstantiated revisionist argument. It was Cutler who was Eisenhower's top expert on national security and Cutler described the OCB as a key part of the NSC system over the years 1953-58. See: http://www.cia.gov/csi/kent_csi/docs/v03i4a05p_0003.htm >It was Jackson who >reported to the President on the problems of OCB lacking NSC >clout and got the President to order OCB merged with NSC to >bolster OCB's standing - after Corso was gone and not a part of >any such merger. Yes, Jackson was instrumental in the reorganization that finally led to the OCB's formal incorporation into the NSC in 1957 but this does not diminish its role in the NSC system prior to that date as Robert Cutler made clear in his description of the OCB, see: http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/history.html#eisenhower . >Your "methodology" if it can even be called that, is to twist >and distort evidence or reverse facts to support the UFO liars >you have chosen to be apologist for. You try to find someone >somewhere at sometime who _mis_understood a situation exactly >the way you like it then you elevate them into supreme experts >on the subject, without regard to their distance in time or >space, or bureacratic remoteness or to the relevant historical >facts that are being violated in this process of apologia for >liars. So if Corso lied and claimed he worked for the NSC when >in actuality it was the OCB your "methodology" is to try to find >someone somewhere who understandably made the mistake of merging >OSC into NSC in their minds without regard to the date of the >1957 merger long after Corso's 1956 departure, since that is an >argument you created in 2005. This is the clever tactic of a >propagandist not a political scientist. The above is just another rhetorical flourish to support your wildly inaccurate claim that Corso lied in describing his service on the NSC. The FBI file clearly refutes your revisionist argument and condemnation of Corso. I fail to see how my argument in 2005 in any way influenced what the FBI wrote in 1965 or what how Robert Cutler viewed the OCB as part of the NSC system during his service over the period in question. There is also the Senate Select Committee meeting on POWs which describes Corso as follows: "Lt. Col. Phillip Corso (USA, Ret.), of the National Security Council staff under President Eisenhower." However, according to you that historical document can't be right either because they mispelled Corso's first name 'Philip', and furthermore they uncritically accepted what Corso told them about his background without checking. Sheer supposition on your part, and another piece of historical revisionism to dismiss the historical data in support of Corso's claim. I don't know why you have been able to get away with your convoluted argument that Corso lied about his service on the NSC when there are historical documents that directly refute your conclusions and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Ship's Logs - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:34:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:31:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Ship's Logs - Pope >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:39:45 +0100 >Subject: Re: Ship's Logs >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:38:04 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs >>>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:53:09 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:58:51 +0100 >>>>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>I find it very hard to believe that if large numbers of people >>on board had indeed witnessed an unidentified object that day, >>and one of them had photographed it, that it would have had no >>mention at all in the ship's log. It would surely be classed as >>an unexplained aerial event. >>If the log is as you say, this can only count as a negative for >>all those who insist a genuine UFO was seen. >Nope, depending on the setting I think it's probably fairly common to make a separate record of 'sensitive' events - with or without a coded reference in official Log or Diary. It's my understanding that several logs are kept on Navy ships. Furthermore, there are two types of log - the "rough log" is the initial one, while the "smooth log" is written up later, using the "rough log" as a guide. Terminologies and procedures will doubtless have changed over the years and will vary from nation to nation, but researchers should be aware that there will be more than one potential source of information.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Salla & Stone - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:14:31 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:51:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Salla & Stone - Randle >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 05:06:45 -1000 >Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:28:25 EDT >>Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 06:29:20 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 07:09:00 EDT >>>>Subject: Salla & Stone [was: An Open Question To The List] >>>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:54:58 -1000 >>>>>Subject: Re: An Open Question To The List <snip> >>>As for your competence as part of Brad Kimball's "A Team" for >>>serious UFO research, I was pointing out that you do not have >>>the empirical scientific background lauded as the ideal basis >>>for the "Serious Study of the UFO phenomenon". The empirical >>>study of "lights in the sky" as defined by Allen Hynek's The UFO >>>Experience is very different to a PhD study in human or social >>>psychology. Furthermore, being "involved in a couple of >>>psychology experiments" is very different to a trained >>>psychologist designing and implementing clinical studies into >>>human or social psychology. You do not appear to have worked as >>>a professional psychologist and thereby have minimal experience >>>with the kinds of methodological issues professionals in >>>pyschology and other social science disciplines constantly >>>grapple with. If you had worked as a professional psychologist >>>whether at a university or in a clinic, you would know that >>>there is no consensus over what constitutes a "rigorous >>>scientific method" thereby making the idea of an A-Team for the >>>"Serious Study of the UFO phenomenon" nonsensical. >>I was merely suggesting that your assumption that I had not >>participated in any experiments (and yes I've even designed >>some) was in error. I was not suggesting anything else. It's not >>unlike the time that Stan Friedman, learning that I had no >>degree in English said that he had thought I was an English >>major. He assumed that because I was a writer. >Thanks for confirming that part of your PhD training involved >some clinical applications of psychology. This doesn't detract >from my earlier point that since you haven't practiced as a >clinical psychologist or had an academic appointment in a >psychology department, then you haven't had the kind of exposure >to methodological debates that professional psychologists often >deal with in their work. My conclusion is that you lack the >exposure to the rigorous methodological debates that >professionals in most of the social sciences are commonly >exposed to. For example, have you ever graded or advised >graduate students doing a Master's Thesis? That is one way in >which contentious methodological issues need to be carefully >evaluated given the wide variety of methodological approaches >that can be taken by graduate students in most social science >disciplines. >In the current debate over the most appropriate UFO research >methodology, and Paul Kimball's inclusion of you in his A-Team >for UFO research, I see little evidence of any profesional >exposure to different methodological approaches and their >suitability to some of the challenges confronting the ETH and >UFO research. This also goes with the other members of his A- >Team, none of whom aside from you have PhDs, or any professional >competence in applying diverse methodologies for dealing with a >multifaceted social scientific phenomenon as the ETH and UFOs. So, if I understand the argument correctly, you are suggesting that rigorous debate in an academic arena is preferable to investigative experience because the contentious methodological issues need to be carefully evaluated and such experience in not available in the real world. The 1992 meeting sponsored by CUFOS and FUFOR to investigate the Plains of San Agustin controversy (as well as the credibility of Gerald Anderson) does not count for this sort of contentious experience (though I will note that it became quite contentious a number of times) because it was not in an academic forum. Or maybe I should say that it was not held at an academic institution, though it seemed to be academic in nature. And those of us who have training in the academic and real world investigative techniques must take a backseat to those who have been graduate student and thesis advisors because we haven't been exposed to these diverse methodologies. And finally, having worked in the field on any number of UFO cases, including the one in which it was first reported that the aliens had actually entered the house (see Budd Hopkins Missing Time, p. 142 in the paperback in which he references the Patty Price case, which he referenced to Coral Lorenzen Abducted pp 9- 42 in which she referenced me and Saga magazine in which the first article appeared. I gave her the name Patty Price because at the time the article was written she wanted to remain anonymous but it she has since changed her mind and we know her as Pat Roach), I would think would establish not only my research credentials but also a use of diverse methodologies just the sort you'd appreciate in the academic arena. >>>I have not been ignoring you or Brad Sparks when it comes to >>>Clifford Stone's claims. I have been continuing my research on >>>his case and finding out more on his precise activities between >>>1974-1980 in terms of his FOIA requests and the discovery of >>>Project Moon Dust. Since it has been alleged by Brad Sparks and >>>supported by you that Stone "ripped off" Todd Roberts FOIA >>>research on Project Moon Dust, I simply need to dig deeper to >>>find out what happened in that period. When I do get more >>>information, I will respond to the list with my findings. >>>As for the name of the EBE Guidebook Clifford Stone discussed >>>with me in my July inteview, he said it was a 3" thick "Guide" >>>with over 1000 pages with medical and background data on 57 EBE >>>races that he saw between 1979-89 when his handler, a mysterious >>>'Colonel', allowed him to look at it in that period. It appeared >>>to fill the role of a first aid manual for injured EBEs based on >>>different physiologies and medical needs. Since Stone claims to >>>have been working on UFO crash retrieval teams since 1969 then >>>it seems the EBE Guidebook was completed sometime in 1979. >>But this doesn't give us the information we need to find out if >>such a document exists. Well, it was a 3" thick 'Guide' with over >>1000 pages. Yes, but what was the name? How can we verify these >>statements? Why is he allowed to talk in general terms about >>this document which must be classified but is not allowed to >>give us the actual name of it? >There was no title that Stone mentioned other than his >description of it as a Guide for EBEs. He did not mention a >title page or anything on its cover that suggested it can be >tracked down through FOIA. Why am I not surprised? No way to verify the existence of this document. >>>As for Stone violating his security oaths, I think you should >>>not assume that someone that has broken security oaths with the >>>release of some information is obliged to do the same with all >>>classified information in his/her possession. It appears that >>>Stone is constrained in how much he reveals to the general >>>public and we are still trying to assess his credibility as a >>>whistleblower over what he has revealed, rather than judging him >>>for what he has not revealed. >>Very convenient. He only breaks his oaths when he wants but if >>we ask tough questions, well, he is not obligated to provide any >>answers. Yes, lets do assess his credibility over what he has >>revealed. Let's have some specific information so that we can go >>after it from sources other than Stone, remembering that the >>Moon Dust information was available in other arenas when Stone >>began to talk of it. Had he actually been the first, then >>something interesting might be said, but being among the first, >>when the information was available on a limited basis to those >>using FOIA, then we really have nothing to suggest Stone was an >>insider. >I fail to see your point here about a convenient rationale for >Stone not answering all questions you may put to him. I've >written a short article about asking the right questions of >whistleblowers at: http://www.exopolitics.org/Exo-Comment-30.htm >. Asking "tough questions" may easily compromise a whistleblower >in terms of any security oath. You can't simply assume that >since he may have 'broken' or 'stretched' some oaths and has >apparently not been incarcerated, that he is free to continue >'breaking' his oaths without risking future incarceration. Stone >is describing a security system that appears to condone some >leaks but not others. I don't see why that concept is difficult >for you to grasp. Public acclimation is very likely occuring as >evidenced by the number of whistleblowers coming forward, and >some of Stone's disclosures are permitted while others aren't. >Certainly the threats he claims to have received make it >important to consider the possibility that he is subject to >constraints. I never said that he was free to continue to break his oaths but that he has never offered us anything that was new and different as a way of verifying his credentials. Everything has already been in the public arena so there is no proof that he was an insider as claimed nor that he had any special knowledge of classified programs. And when we ask for additional information that is directly credited to Stone so that we could begin the verification process, that information is denied because Stone is not free to divulge that specific and apparently classified information. >As for Project Moon Dust, Brad Sparks directed me to a 1978 FOIA >letter received by Robert Todd from the US Air Force mentioning >Project Moon Dust. That's the earliest documented reference so >far to Project Moon Dust that I have found. Stone has claimed he >told Tom Adams and Gary Barker about Project Moon Dust in 1977 >while he was stationed in Europe, and there is the possibility >that Adams/Barker passed this on to Todd. So I'm currently >researching that possibility. >For the record, Stone has two military newspaper stories about >him in 1980 where he was interviewed for his FOIA UFO work. By >1980, Stone was quoted in the stories to have thousands of pages >of documents he had received through FOIA requests since 1974. >So Stone was clearly a pioneer along with Robert Todd and others >in FOIA requests on UFO documents. The idea he "ripped off" >Todd's work is not supported by the newspaper stories that show >Stone FOIA work dates back to 1974. No, the newspaper stories actually show that his work dates back to 1980 and document his claim of working on it since 1974. We have nothing to verify that claim. Stone should be able to document it with letters and FOIA requests dated to that time. I have lots of them for my work that include the responses from various governmental agencies. He should be able to produce the first letter he has that references Moon Dust. >>>As far as the name of Project Moon Dust's successor is >>>concerned, there are two levels of classification here. The >>>first is the project itself which is undoubtedly classified as >>>was initially the case with Moondust. As for the project name, >>>it has been made clear to me that Stone is not prepared to make >>>any public statementb of the project name either because it is >>>classified or because he has given his word not to. I repeat, >>>Stone's case needs to be assessed on the basis of information he >>>can reveal rather than information he is constrained not to >>>reveal. I think whistleblowers need to be acknowledged as being >>>in a very precarious position and shouldn't be baited into >>>revealing information that jeopardizes them or their family. >>Ah, but here's the rub. He'll reveal classified information but >>when we ask questions so that we might verify the veracity of >>those statements, well, he is working under convenient >>constraints (I think I've gone alliteration happy here ). He >>can't tell us the new name for Moon Dust because it jeopardizes >>him or his family. He won't give us anything that will help >>verify what he has said in the past. >You are overlooking the documentation that Stone has accumulated >since 1974 which supports his claims of having done UFO research >through FOIA requests while in the army. This helps establish >his credibility as someone that had insider knowledge due to the >information he was able to gain and which initially impressed >researchers such as Stan Friedman and yourself. While this >doesn't prove he was the insider he claims, his UFO FOIA work >supports his credibility which is the key issue here. >Clifford Stone has told me that he has given his word not to >reveal the new classified name for Project Moondust. I don't >know why you would assume that he is free to reveal all his >knowledge about classified projects. We need to analyse Stone's >testimony in terms of what he has revealed, not what he hasn't >revealed or is willing to answer in terms of "tough questions" >that may compromise him. Your approach does not appear >sufficiently nuanced in cases like Stone where there does appear >to be threats that greatly concern and constrain him. That is my point - he is not free to reveal anything, yet he has in the past. However, he has given us _nothing_ that we didn't already have. He provided us with no new evidence and no new areas to search. All the inside information he has provided was available, sometimes on a limited basis, to anyone doing the research. He had no particular insight for us. >>I will point out here that we are forgetting that many of his >>statements about his Vietnam service (crawling through the wire >>to engage the VC on a one-on-one basis, that he told the first >>sergeant when he arrived in Vietnam that he wanted a combat >>assignment and hadn't been trained as a clerk, are false) and >>that when he has been caught a couple of times, he has reversed >>his position, changing the tale to fit the facts. And before you >>ask, the one that springs immediately to mind is his claimed >>involvement with the Kecksburg UFO event of 1965. >Stone claims to have never been trained as a typist which was a >cover for his crash retrieval training and activities. This is >something he claims to be able to prove through documentation >and I'm presently looking more into that aspect of his case. As >for his specific duties and activities while serving in Vietnam, >I think your focus on them are a distraction from Stone's >central claims that he was involved in UFO crash retrievals >which need to be analysed and not simply dismissed as you are >doing. The documentation that exists today shows that Stone trained as a clerk-typist and that all his assignments were in the admin field. There is no documentation to suggest otherwise. My point has always been that if what he said is true, then there would be some kind of documentation to support it. If he has the training that he claims, then he should have some kind of personal documentation to support those claims. He has offered nothing other than the claim his records were altered. My point here has been that if Stone is less than honest in his tales from Vietnam, what makes you believe that he would be any more candid in his tales of UFO research and participation? >As for the Kecksberg crash, Stone claimed to have remote viewed >the UFO crash to his "Captain" mentor before he enlisted in >1969. It was Stone's 'psychic abilities' that apparently made >him suitable as an interface with ETs and Kecksberg was part of >the circumstances which led to his recruitment into the UFO >crash retrieval teams. Stone claimed to have been used for >telepathic communications. I think subsequent research on remote >viewing has demonstrated its effectiveness and why the military >was interested in someone like Stone with natural psychic >abilities. Okay, I wished to avoid this because it was going to involve a lot of typing on my part but this latest explanation - that he remote viewed the UFO crash is really the last straw (and if Stone is this good, how come he never made it past E-7 meaning sergeant first class). According to what Stone told the Unsolved Mysteries hotline after they ran their Kecksburg UFO story, Stone had personally witnessed the armed military convoy, helmeted soldiers and a flatbed truck carrying the damaged UFO out of Kecksburg. On Sightings in 1992, Stone made a similar claim (which means the claim is documented on video tape, which Stone should be able to provide). Stan Gordon, the main researcher into Kecksburg, said that Stone told him that he, Stone, was a civilian and that a friend at Lockbourne AFB, Ohio, called to tell him that the UFO that was in the news had been brought to the base. The friend (conveniently unidentified), picked up Stone and drove him to the base where he hid in the car in the parking lot outside a back gate and saw the convoy arrive, stay awhile and then leave for Wright-Patterson AFB, also in Ohio. Stone has not renewed these claims since 1992 or 1993. But, the real point is that Stone didn't suggest then that he had remote viewed the site, but had actually been there, until it was realized that he would have been a 16 year-old student living some 90 miles away from Lockbourne AFB. Then, rather than being in Kecksburg to witness the convoy and all the ancillary events, he changed the story to having seen the convoy arrive at one Air Force base and then transferred to another. And, now he remote viewed it. So, which version is the truth? >I'm presently doing more research on Stone's case and will get >back to you and the forum with my results. Let's recap for those who haven't been paying attention to this rather tiring exchange. Stone said that he was not trained as a clerk, yet his records and his military assignments suggest otherwise. Stone claims his records have been altered but has offered no evidence that this is the case. He said that when he arrived in Vietnam, he told his first sergeant that he wasn't really a clerk and requested a combat assignment (a very noble request by the way) and when refused, sometimes crawled through the wire to engage in one-on-one combat with the Viet Cong. Again, he has no proof of this and such tales are universally rejected as invention. He claimed that he was at the Kecksburg UFO crash site and saw the military convoys, etc., later said that he was at an Air Force base to see the convoys and finally that he had, in reality, remote viewed the scene. He claims that he was on the inside on a crash retrieval team, again offering no proof that this was the case, that he revealed Moon Dust to the UFO world, and that he saw the alien autopsy film in 1969. Again, he has no proof of this and we know that he didn't say a word about the alien autopsy film until after Ray Santilli showed it to the world. Yet, with all these problems and when Stone has contradicted himself about his involvement in the Kecksburg case (which, by the way, he could tell us the truth about because he was a civilian and Posse Comitatus prohibits the prosecution of civilians by military authorities) and when he offers no proof that any of this is true, you prefer to believe Stone is telling you the absolute truth than the possibility that he has been, shall we say, inventing his tales. And contrary to the spin put on it, these are major problems with the tales told by Stone and until and unless there is some sort of documented resolution, the only logical conclusion is that Stone has invented these stories. And I don't really mean to pick on Stone here. The same can be said for many of the so-called whistleblowers including the one who spent years in jail for child molestation (oh, yes, he was framed to undermine his credibility, I forgot). What I have been suggesting and what many others would like to see, is some sort of unbiased vetting of the witnesses to establish their credibility so that we're not caught, once again, with egg on our faces. How many times must we be caught before we start some serious research (and yes, I include myself in this - after all I believed Frank Kaufmann and he actually had some documentation
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Graham Sheppard 1943 - 2005 - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:28:39 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:53:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Graham Sheppard 1943 - 2005 - Pope >From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:35:48 -0500 >Subject: Graham Sheppard 1943 - 2005 >Graham Sheppard >An Appreciation by Timothy Good >Graham Sheppard, former British Airways captain and long-time >student of the UFO phenomenon, died on Wednesday 24th August at >Torbay Hospital, Devon, aged 62, following complications arising >from myelofibrosis, a chronic disease of the bone marrow. He is >survived by his wife Margaret, and Ian and Richard, his sons >from a previous marriage. <snip> Graham Sheppard was one of ufology's true heroes. It took extraordinary courage for someone in his position to speak out on the UFO issue, knowing full well that it was not something his employers at British Airways would want to see discussed by one of their pilots. His entirely proper concern over the flight safety implications posed by UFOs was, I believe, one of the main reasons why he felt compelled to comment so publicly. Graham's two UFO sightings in 1967 are now quite well known. Having a senior pilot talk so rationally about incidents where UFOs were seen by aircrew and simultaneously tracked on radar was a significant contribution to the ufological debate. I met Graham on several occasions, most recently at a conference in London on June 11, where I was speaking with Timothy Good and Dick Haines. Graham was always good company, and a mine of useful information on aeronautical issues. I shall miss him, and ufology will miss him too. The subject has lost a friend.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Shameful Secrets Of The 70s From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:03:08 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:55:09 -0400 Subject: Shameful Secrets Of The 70s UK TV viewers might want to look out for a Sky One program, Shameful Secrets Of The 70s, as it features a short segment on UFOs. In the segment concerned I speak about the numbers of UFO sightings reported to the Ministry of Defence before and after the film "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", I detail the sorts of letters we received from the public, and I make some more general comments about the relationship between ufology and science fiction. The program premiered on Sunday night but is being repeated on Wednesday September 7, at 9pm. That said, the repeat is shorter than Sunday night's version, and I don't know if the UFO segment has survived the edit. The show will be screened from time to time over the next few weeks, in both its full-length and edited versions. Check out Sky One's website for more details, or Google the program's title.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Re: Ship's Logs - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:08:33 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:57:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Ship's Logs - Shough >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:38:04 +0100 >Subject: Re: Ship's Logs >>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:53:09 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:58:51 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>>We were told some months ago that the Brazilian military had >>>made some or all of their UFO files available to the public. Why >>>not ask them for the log of the 'Almirante Saldanha' for January >>>16, 1958? Then we might really know who, and how many, actually >>>witnessed the UFO photographed that day. >>>Can some of our Brazilian ufologists help on this? >>I asked A.J. Gevaerd a similar question on-List at the time about >>any documentation on this case, and he pointed out that the >>document release was confined to the Air Force. The Almirante >>Saldanha was a vessel of the Navy Hydrographic Department. >>But actually the log has already been obtained. There are people >>on this List who have copies. I haven't seen a copy myself but I >>have some information from it. I understand that it doesn't >>contain any record of the UFO event whatsoever, only routine >>navigational and weather records. I also understand that this is >>the norm, not exceptional. It isn't a general activities log. But >>I too would like to see this information verified. >No record whatever of the UFO? That's my understanding. Perhaps Kentaro Mori or Brad Sparks would be able to provide more detail? >This was a ship on an International Geophysical Year expedition. >It was therefore on a scientific research trip, and ought to >have recorded such events as anomalous atmospheric phenomena, >if, as and when they occurred. I agreed with Mori, on-List in Dec 2003, that this was a material fact which needs discussing. I still think so. >I find it very hard to believe that if large numbers of people >on board had indeed witnessed an unidentified object that day, >and one of them had photographed it, that it would have had no >mention at all in the ship's log. It would surely be classed as >an unexplained aerial event. I did ask Mori privately, more than once, for details of the log or log extracts in his possession, but although we had very full exchanges on many other aspects of the case during 2004 I never received this info. We do need to confirm whether or not the absence of details other than navigational fixes and scheduled weather reports is the norm for this document. I understand from Brad that this is the case. >If the log is as you say, this can only count as a negative for >all those who insist a genuine UFO was seen. This depends on the nature and function of the document that has been recovered. Again I understand that this particular log is, as I said, not a general events log but is purely a register of these specific wind/cloud and navigation/pilotage details. There may be another "ship's log" therefore which would be more pertinent. Again, others who have copies of this document would have to comment on this. I hope they will. >I realise this risks reopening the long-raging debate of >yesteryear. Nothing wrong with that. It's still wide open and cries out for more study IMO. See:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 6 Could Black Budget Technology Have Saved N'Olins? From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:51:41 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:00:42 -0400 Subject: Could Black Budget Technology Have Saved N'Olins? Well, as I stated before, here we are again knee deep in some disaster. The government now admits it failed the citizens. This is like the second time in about 4-5 years? Necessary resources and manpower weren't deployed for some unspeakable reason and now a lot of photo op nonsense is going on. Where were our resources focused that the people of the U.S. weren't the priority which they are supposed to be by law? Iraq? Afghanistan? Israel? Saudia Arabia? Seems like we're second class citizens in our own country's eyes. So what about those black budget dollars? Obviously they're not going toward technologies that can save the citizens from whose donations come. Obviously these high tech doo-dads of tomorrow can't tell when and where a hurricane can hit. We're still using pictures and guesstimates. These black budget projects sure as heck can't find weapons of mass destruction, 6ft 4in white turbaned Arabs in a country where most guys are 5ft 7in. So where's the black budget money going? What do these big budget things do? We don't have a giant plane able to transport troops and materiel by the thousands in just a few minutes? We don't have 'Instant Buildings & Shelters' in case of a disaster or troop deployment? We don't have 'bug repellant' that can make a mosquito run home to it's momma? WTH is going on? What are we spending our money on? I'm going to sit here and wait to see if any of the victims have UFO reports to tell or other paranormal experiences. Oh, don't get me started on the psychics & remote viewers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:55:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:08:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:18:48 -0300 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:24:53 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>I'm sorry if I've been confusing. You made an important point >>and I was trying to elaborate. I agree with you that the AA >>craft could have come from a mothership. But a "starship" is not >>a possibility since travel between stars isn't possible, and >>hasn't been accomplished by any civilization, anywhere, under >>any circumstances, as far as we know. Kaku's pipe dreams will >>never become reality. In this case, ( travel between stars) our >>reach far exceeds our grasp. We can believe, on faith, that star >>travel is possible, but there is no evidence. Just as there is >>not a crumb of evidence for time travel, ghosts, god, or extra >>dimensions that we can access. >The notion that travel between the stars isn't possible is flat >out ridiculous. I worked on fusion propulsion sytems in the >early 1960s... able to eject charged particles having 10 million >times as much energy per particle as in a dumb old chemical >rocket. No we haven't done it yet, We hadn't gone to the moon >in 1925 either nor flown in 1900. I have no doubt that eventually science will develop vehicles that are able to travel at tremendous velocities. But here's the problem as I see it. In order to travel from star to star, these star-craft must travel at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second) and I just don't think that will ever be possible. In the world of light, there is no time, space, charge or mass and no rest since light travels at a constant velocity. In evolutionary terms, everything starts with light, then particles, followed by atoms which then form molecules. For molecules to travel at light speeds, they must become light and lose all identity. That's not even conceivable. We might be able to send our thoughts or love at light speed but not much more. >Let us not forget that we have only had "sophisticated" >technology for about 100 years. Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli just >down the street 39 light years away are a billion years older >than the sun. So? Do you think that a billion years lead time has given the Zetas a head start? That isn't the way evolution works, or trilobites would rule the world. Humans have evolved their technologies, and taken these technological skills about as far as they can. Nanotechnology, the science of the future will certainly improve our chances of visiting the outer reaches of our solar system. but never the stars. And you have no evidence that it will. >We have also operated powerful fission rockets on >the ground in the 1960s. Ed, you remind me of Dr. Campbell who >in 1941 did a long "scientific" paper showing that the required >initial launch weight for a chemical rocket to get a man to the >moon and back would be a million, million tons. He was off by a >factor of 300,000,000. I am not talking about Kaku's stuff, >though he may be right. You really ought to read my 1999 MUFON >paper "Star Travel? YES!". In case you hadn't noticed it we >don't use slide rules much any more. I would consider reading that paper, if you'd send it to me. I'm not paying for it because I've sent you many gifts and you've never returned the favor. I drove five hours to bring you a sample of the cristobalite from the AA crash site and you didn't even thank me. And there is still no evidence that you've read any of Corso's book. And I know you've never read my article on the AA crash site and probably not Wendy's either. I'm not basing my negative opinion regarding star travel on "launch weight" but on what science knows about molecular machines. There are limits to technology. But love might find a way. >>We should work with what we have and what we know for sure and >>the simplest explanation possible: we share our planet and the >>solar system with at least one other civilization. >It isn't the simplest explanation at all. Data from all over the >planet indicates aliens are coming here. That really isn't a big >deal. We are moving in that direction. We are young. They are >older. It is a big and old galactic neighborhood in case you >hadn't noticed. Yes, I have noticed that it's a "big, wide, wonderful world we live in". And that "Data from all over the planet indicates aliens are coming here". But it all depends on how we define the term "alien". I agree that we are beginning to become conscious of an alien presence. I doubt this presence is from another star system. I was simply pointing out that you have nothing but supposition to back your claims. I base my case on the creature in the AA and the debris from the craft she was flying. >>This civilization evolved here and is subject to the same >>environmental forses and constraints as humans. >>Witness testimony and the AA give us some idea of the minimum we >>can expect: a wide variety of humanoid entities who ride around >>fast vehicles, that come in many shapes and sizes. >>>Who is the cameraman >>The cameraman is the person who filmed the Alien Autopsy footage. >How about a name and background check. Have you or anybody else >met him? What do we know about his service record? It sure >wasn't Jack Barnett the real cmeraman who was the first to film >Elvis. Santilli surely didn't buy the AA footage from him as he >died in the 1960s. Ray did the best background check he could. He examined the diaries and photo albums and the army records the cameraman supplied. He was sure enough to plunk down a hundred grand supplied by Volker, and they haven't complained yet. Did the person you represented when you met with Ray and offered the same amount, conduct a background check? One hundred grand, if you haven't noticed, is a large amount of cash,and in my neighborhood indicates confidence. >>>and how did you get the drawing >>The drawings, depicting the craft, from two angles, were >>published in "Beyond Roswell" by Hesemann & Mantle. >How do we know their provenance? >>Haven't you >>seen them? I believe they were drawn from photos taken by the >>cameraman. The detail of terrain and the army trucks is just too >>accurate to be from memory. >Do we have facts here? There are lots of pictures of trucks We know that the cameraman supplied the information and details and we know the name of the artist and we know that they were supplied by Ray for "Beyond Roswell". What point are you trying to make? Why don't you at least take a look. Then you'd know what I was talking about, or read my review of "Alien Autopsy Inquest" by Philip Mantle: http://www.thewhyfiles.net/autopsy.htm >>>and how is >>>it you determined that this pile of stuff was or wasn't from the >>>stars? Did it say made by General Motors? >>I used my gifts of observation and the, Discussion Of The Debris, >>by Dennis Murphy. I'm sure it would be quite obvious to you if >>you'd only take a good look >>>My point was that there is no need for the small craft to have >>>come here directly on their own from another solar system since >>>that job is very likely performed by the big ones. >>But there is no need to posit "another solar system" until you >>have established that these crafts aren't from here. >The flying characteristics of a host of UFOs observed here >clearly indicate they weren't made on the planet or they would >have been used in several wars.You certainly haven't established >other than by proclamation that they were made here. This also upsets me. Why are you discussing this with me without reading what I've written on the subject? If you had, then you'd know I maintain that the creature in the AA is an evolved monotreme from a civilization that could be as much as 100 million years older than our civilization. She is a mammal and through convergent evolution has become humanoid. This civilization is limited and vulnerable but technologically superior to us. I could go on but you get the point. If you'd only study the debris section (reel 10) in the AA CD set I sent you several years ago and read Dennis Murphy's "Discussion of the Debris", http://www.outtahear.com/beyond_updates/debris.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 7 Fund for UFO Research Address Change From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:50:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:15:39 -0400 Subject: Fund for UFO Research Address Change I'm not sure if this was posted previously, but... Don Berliner, Chairman of the Fund for UFO Research, has announced that the Fund's mailing address has changed. Those
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:01:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:18:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:26:46 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >>To: UFOUpdates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 18:01:46 -0500 >>Subject: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>What's different with the STS-102 video sequence is that it >>includes a display of the current Greenwich Mean Time on the >>status board in the Mission Control Center.... >>Using the displayed GMT, the time of any event in the video can >>be determined to within a fraction of a second. I obtained the >>telemetry records for the shuttle's RCS thruster firings from >>the NASA FOIA office for a period of time around the video >>event to see if any of the firings coincided with the event. >I applaud your use of FOIA for the telemetry records. >However, you should also request (from NASA) the video >segment you are talking about and ask for telemetry timetags >too. This will confirm to you that the flashes occur at the >12:30:39 and 12:30:40 firings (which it does). You can likely >count on those time tags more so than the "estimate" from the >MCC clocks. I doubt NASA would tamper with them since >they didn't erase the "UFOs" in the videos. You've got it backwards. The video time tags can be true telemetry time tags. But in some cases they can be estimates, as the screwy time tags on the STS-48 video proved. The time counters kept incrementing during a loss of signal because they were only estimates added after the mission. You most certainly _cannot_ count on their accuracy. Oberg's claim that they were high-precision time tags turned out to be a load of rubbish. Why on earth do you claim that the MCC clock is an "estimate"? It's a clock. It tells the _time_ for crying out loud. Setting a clock to the correct time should be a simple matter. If they can't set that clock correctly, there's no reason to trust any of their time "estimates" including the RCS firing telemetry. However, the difference between the mission elapsed time (MET) in the video attests to the accuracy of the GMT time. In each frame, subtracting the MET from the GMT gives 11 hours 42 minutes and 9 seconds. That is the official GMT launch time to the _second_. The MET clock was started the moment the shuttle lifted off. If there were an error in the GMT, subtracting the MET from it would not give the correct launch time. >The segment has the camera pointed at Earth (still in darkness), >but the Shuttle is in light. When the camera zooms out the >brightness of the surrounding hardware of the Shuttle is >apparent and the darkness of "space" (really mostly the Earth) >is absolute. No "UFOs" are visible. However, when the camera >zooms in to look at Earth, the only reminder that the Shuttle is >in light is the glare on the camera lens. With tiny crystals >near the Shuttle being illuminated by the Sun, they can easily >be affected by the thrusters. Why are you wasting your time writing the above when my article already noted that this was another case of objects appearing shortly after orbital sunrise? The article also commented on why that fact is of little value in distinguishing between small objects near the shuttle and large objects several kilometers from the shuttle. >Are you telling me that we have a swarm of UFOs passing in front >of Shuttle cameras (usually at dusk and dawn) which implies that >the entire LEO and below orbit has the SAME frequencies of >spacecraft thus implying we have been invaded? No, I don't recall telling you that. You're letting your imagination run away with you again. >These really seem to be no more than debris/ice, similar to many >other video segments. So you proclaim. The MCC clocks indicate that the object accelerates when no thruster was firing, which means it is not similar to debris/ice. There's another interesting thing about the object that was not mentioned in my article. The cargo bay video cameras are oriented relative to the orbiter so that the thrusters are always below the bottom edge of the video frame. The object in the STS-102 video accelerates _toward_ the bottom of the frame and therefore toward the thrusters. That would be the wrong direction for most camera orientations, debris particles should be pushed toward the top of the video frame because that's the direction opposite to the thrusters' position. >An interesting video segment that may be you can look into is >the only from the STS-114 recent Shuttle flight. It occurred at >GMT 218/13:51 (orbit 174, the SAME orbit as the STS-102 one). I >like it because you have a bunch of "ice crystals/UFOs" in an >"unmoving cloud" with the Earth "moving" in the background but >one "UFO" that changes direction (pulls a U-ey) for some reason. >Why didn't the other "UFOs" move too if caused by a thruster >firings? Too far away? Another dusk/dawn sighting. Possibly the object that changes course is being subjected to drag forces while the particles that don't move are shielded by the orbiter's body from the "wind." The Earth's atmosphere is tenuous, but it's moving at 17,000 mph relative to the orbiter. After the course reversal, the object is clearly moving in the same direction as the "wind," which is consistent with a small object near the orbiter. But it still seems strange that the atmosphere in what is supposed to be "outer space" could have such a dramatic effect, even on a small debris particle. Actually, there should be a way to quantitatively determine if atmospheric drag could cause the course reversal. Given the atmosphere's density at the orbiters altitude and some
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Ship's Logs - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:22:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:19:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Ship's Logs - Shough >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:39:45 +0100 >Subject: Re: Ship's Logs >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 22:38:04 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs >>>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:53:09 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:58:51 +0100 >>>>Subject: Re: Ship's Logs? >>I find it very hard to believe that if large numbers of people >>on board had indeed witnessed an unidentified object that day, >>and one of them had photographed it, that it would have had no >>mention at all in the ship's log. It would surely be classed as >>an unexplained aerial event. >>If the log is as you say, this can only count as a negative for >>all those who insist a genuine UFO was seen. >Nope, depending on the setting I think it's probably fairly >common to make a separate record of 'sensitive' events - with or >without a coded reference in official Log or Diary. >[As a Sergeant acting-Orderly Officer I had to sort out an >"attempted murder" report in an adjoining regiment's area; both >men belonged to that regiment and the woman was a regimental wife. >In the official diary I initialed only my time of departure >(alone) and time of return - anything in between was scribbled >on loose leaf paper for the two Regimental Sergeant Majors - >top sergeants - to act on. Luckily no dead bodies and I was in >transit - so heard no more.] >Official diaries might 'confirm', but don't think they 'prove' >anything. Ray Yes, this is one of those instances where absence of evidence really is not evidence of absence, just because the document in question is (I understand) not a "diary" or journal of daily events on board. As you say, there may well be a separate chronicle-type log. If we knew what was in that then we could argue about it. Still less is this log a classified report, as you point out. The then-ongoing Navy High Command intelligence department investigation into the prior Trindade Island sightings was classified "confidential" at the time. It had requested "all possible" information on Trindade UFOs from the Hydrographic Department who were operating the Almirante Saldanha, but we have none of the original material that must have been generated and/or forwarded in response to this - only what is in Capt. Brandao's final summary report. Chris Allen argues that the ship's log surely should have recorded scientific observations as this was a "scientific research trip". Well, in a sense it was - the ship was kitted out as a survey vessel for the Navy Hydrographic Department, but actually this trip was about transport to and from the island base and its newly constructed meteorological station, not a hydrographic survey. But anway, this log is a nautical log not a scientific journal.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 7 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Sheryl From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:01:19 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:43:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Sheryl >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 06:39:09 -1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:32:09 -1000 >>>Subject: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 ><snip> >>>I think the way in which veteran UFO >>>researchers routinely dismiss whistleblower and contactee data >>>is major impediment to better understanding the UFO phenomenon. >>>The general public are seeking answers to the ETH that the >>>present "scientifically rigorous method" of UFO research fails >>>to address. This is why UFO research is at a cross roads and >>>alternative ways of conceptualizing this phenomenon such as >>>Exopolitics are becoming more popular. Michael, I totally agree with you that UFO research is very much at a crossroads. It is just busting to explode past the frustration and limitations of it's inherited "scientific" legacy. Many of us sense and see it. I think we forget that it's not scientific purity that matters but which way society moves that really makes the difference. My impression is that Exopolitics has, at the very least, revealed holes in current UFO research practices and you appear to be applying methodologies from other disciplines in an attempt to fill those gaps.What's wrong with that? Especially in the midst of a Ufology that has become like a dog on a chain that has worn the ground bare. And before anyone launches into a "but, but didn't you read the other posts" fit, or calls me a screaming idiot too (good heavens, I fell off my chair when I read that!) all I can simply say is we all want truth, not "winners" and for a time some will have a different truth to others, but eventually we might meet. (fingers crossed) >>Dr. Salla, List, All >>See, here is the problem in a nutshell. Dr. Salla believes that >>we veteran UFO researchers routinely dismiss the alleged >>whistle-blower and contactee data... and implies that we >>haven't bothered with investigation. But there are reasons for >>our dismissing of these testimonies. Whether you are a veteran or not has nothing to do with getting it right. As an example, I picked up a book the other day written by a British researcher who is fairly well known and been around for 25 years or more but incorrectly quoted something Adamski wrote in one of his books. It was obvious he had not gone back and read the original information but quoted someone else. There's too much inaccurate regurgitation going on in research and it is hard to trust any researchers opinion when we see that happen. (over and over I mgiht add) >>For example, I actually saw George van Tassel when he came to >>Denver in the mid-1960s. He was talking about life on Mars, as >>in intelligent life that was spreading across the surface at >>that time - not the theoretical construct that has been adopted >>with the Face on Mars controversy. He, of course, never said >>anything directly against George Adamski, other than you >>couldn't trust anything those Venusians said. Of course we now >>know that Venus is much too hot to support life, unless, of >>course, we want to reject the now accepted science. And fish can only breathe under water. Does that make human existence ridiculous? (i can just hear one fish saying to another, impossible. no one can live in air!) That's a very old argument whose use by date passed a while ago. All it means is that Venus cannot support life as we know it. Things are not as they seem and how easily it slips from our minds that the sacred cow of science is always in an evolutionary state of flux with discovery, integration and discardment of old knowledge and understanding. (well that's the theory anyway) >>The contactees, whether Van Tassel or Adamski, or Dan Fry, or a >>platoon of others, were never able to offer any sort of >>independent evidence that their tales of travel through the >>Solar System were true - they never got to take pictures, never >>managed to grab an artifact, never learned anything that was new >>and different to our science. It does seem true that the contactees were not terribly interested in providing proof to ufo researchers, at least from my reading between the lines. It was their message to the public that was their focus. When I read something of Dan Fry's recently it was said that the ETs could discover something about the contactees personality before they made contact, but did not necessarily know how each individual would respond to the experience. Just looked up more info: "If for any reason our judgement of the subjects's reactions should be in error and he should decide to report the contact at once, there will be no physical evidence of the event, and it will be very unlikely that any of his fellow workers will give serious attention to his report'. Make of that what you will. <snip> >>Not once did any of the contactees, who >>claimed cordial relations with these space brother offer >>anything that would be useful to our science or our planet, >>other than the sort of thing you might read in science fiction. >>Their predictions never came true and it has been demonstrated, >>time and again that the contactees were making it up. That's a bit of a sweeping statement, isn't it? Qualify "useful". Adamski, Van Tassell and Fry are only three accounts. There were/are far more contactee accounts, as you know I'm sure. There have been quite a few obscure contact accounts published that are still finding the light of day such as the Dworshak brothers story, see: http://www.dorrancebookstore.com/dorrance/ufarewitusmy.html Another example from Australia is a series of 3 books by an Australian contactee, Frank Howard (now deceased) that is hardly known. I'm sure there are many contactee accounts that will never be published either so there is still something to be revealed and learned yet. Generalising of contactee accounts isn't useful. Each case needs to be taken on it's own merit. <snip> >You and most other veteran UFO researchers dismiss the contactee >or whistleblower testimonies since you demand the 'hard >evidence' to substantiate their claims. When I or others respond >that the hard evidence in terms of documents, material, photos, >independent witness testimonies, etc., is in many cases >withdrawn or manipulated by those responsible for 'Cosmic >Watergate', we are accused of being gullible and believing any >tall story thrown our way. One group of researchers accept, and another rejects. How do we get past that and do we even need to? Doesn't something closer to the truth allow for both to be right and/or wrong at the same time? I wonder. <snip> >Being "open" to whistleblower testimonies is appropriate for a >researcher still grappling with data that is imcomplete, >withdrawn, and possibly manipulated. The same goes for contactee accounts. I doubt many contactees have been told the whole story by their ET counterparts. It was/is probably not the prudent thing to do. I also think contactees could have been maneuvered by other ET groups, human military/govt groups, UFO researchers, as well as their own for who knows what purposes, so inconsistencies, contradictions, even ridiculousness could have very good reason for existing. It
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 7 Coincidence Proof 'Alien Rock' Sees No Difference From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:49:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:49:06 -0400 Subject: Coincidence Proof 'Alien Rock' Sees No Difference Source: The Washington Examiner - Washington, DC http://tinyurl.com/byuj9 Wednesday, September 7, 2005 Coincidence, Proof - 'Alien Rock' Sees No Difference By Charles Devilbiss Special to The Examiner Michael Luckman purports to have taught the first college course in the country about rock music, and after reading this book, I dearly wish I could have been enrolled. And, well, if I am to believe half of what he covers in his book "Alien Rock: The Rock 'n' roll Extraterrestrial Connection," I may still have the chance. The text not only covers time travel, but mystic religions, cosmic encounters, alien abductions, voices from beyond and, above all, the classic UFO sighting, all related through the obsessions and experiences of some of music's biggest acts. Essentially what Luckman has done here is taken his extensive knowledge of rock history from 1950 on, and combined it with his obsession with interplanetary contact, a blend that I must report is as ridiculous as anyone could hope for. I am certain that any criticism of this book will be interpreted as skepticism, and that is completely true. The ludicrous "evidence" presented here is tangential and specious at best, a jumble that mistakes coincidence for proof, and is really only enjoyable as a hefty dose of crazy, a mix of SETI and ELO that strains credulity and makes you wonder what the hell these people are thinking. An example: Elvis (who constitutes a big section in this book, of course) maintained that he was born on "The Blue Planet." One of his big hits was "Blue Suede Shoes." Connection made! This is repeated with The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, David Bowie, Jimi Hendrix and Michael Jackson - a collection of more normal people you could not find. I mean, I don't know about you, but whatever Michael Jackson has to stay about aliens and outer space, I am taking as the gospel truth. In the end, "Alien Rock" doesn't really make its case as a serious book on UFOs, or as an entertaining book about music. In shorting both, reading it is somewhat reminiscent of being adrift in a starship with the Best of Rick Wakeman stuck in the tape deck. 'Alien Rock' - Author: Michael C. Luckman - Publisher: Pocket Books
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Filer's Files #37 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:43:02 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:02:00 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #37 - 2005 Filer's Files #37 -- 2005 George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International September 7, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com Canada's Paul Hellyer Claims UFOs Exist This week there is letter from a lady who claims to be an alien, and Canada's former defence minister claims UFO's exist, an RB- 47's encounters UFOs and the New Orleans disaster. Sightings were seen in Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, Mississippi, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee. Sightings were also reported in Australia, Canada, the Dominican Republic, and Hungary. Is not an alien force already among us? President Reagan stated, at the 42nd General Assembly of the United Nations in Sept. 21, 1987. "In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us realize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask you, is not an alien force already among us?" Letter from Alenara When President Reagan told the United Nations, "are there not already aliens among us?" Was he talking about people like Alenara? Alenara a lady who lives in Sweden writes, "I would like to tell you that I have arrived, here on Earth and I am an alien incarnation, and I come from another world. I am sure you are open to contact. There is much life in the outer space, and some of us come here! Life on earth has us come here in subtle forms, many of us - alien visitors - work on improvement for earth and for life here, without ever letting others know of our presence! I am however planning to be one of us who change the world. And do so openly. Allow me to introduce myself. I am Amherana Kha're (how you spell my name depends on the pronunciation). Some time ago, I was living on my planet, in my home world. I can show you which star to look at in the night sky! My home world is named Telmaar. We have only sent two individuals from our world to earth. It is I, and another. I know all of my companion, and will tell you about him, his whereabouts, his life mission, and we can even locate him if this is desired. I am a scientist. At home I worked with collecting all known science, the universal truth, that is, what is true science in spite of any beings interpreting or perceiving it in their own ways. This information was stored in a kind of libraries of ours, and I worked there, processing the information. I was in equivalent of earth years more than 370 years. Our average life span on that planet is equivalent of 1200 years. Persons of up to a 200 years are considered adolescent by our people, in our world. I am sent here to work with science. In 1962, I was in proximity of planet Earth. We could hear radio broadcasts from earth, in our spaceship. I remember looking down toward the blue planet earth, wondering when my eyes would once look up from there below. It would last until 1980 when my suitable incarnation would be found. I remember the summer of 1982, traveling out of my body, in Sweden, watching the green birch trees, mountains and forests. October 1982 I was born. My life here has been difficult. At age 5, old enough to speak, I told people about immortality. One of the first things I ever said was "I am 300 years old." My family did their best to suppress these aspects of me. I was always able to remember who I was. I have had contact with otherworldly (alien) people all this life. They helped me learn and remember science, and enhanced my telepathic and extrasensory perception. Today I am able to see all molecules, atoms, electrons, electrical and magnetic fields, gravity, and more. Facing any object or situation, I sense all information of it. A person's health status, his emotions, thoughts and dreams. I have incredible knowledge in chemistry, physics, and any other aspect of science, that is not yet known here on earth. It is knowledge I have with me, from my home world. I can manifest atoms and soon also larger objects, and am learning to gain back my abilities and knowledge as I had prior to my incarnation. On my home world, we do not eat solid foods, our bodies are manifested in ways that I am learning to now apply to my human being, and go periods without eating or drinking, gaining incredible health and bodily rejuvenation. I am an alien manifestation. I am here for you, when ever you need to have contact. I can let you meet my alien contacts, they will gladly show you spaceships (UFOs) if we go together. I can heal any illness or bodily discomfort that you might have. Rejuvenation is here for you. Any science you ask for, is yours. We are here for you. Much love, Alenara, and the people of Telmaar Editor's Note: I have interviewed Alenara and found her to be a remarkable lady. We are skeptical of her claims, but feel it is only fair to test and learn more about her alien contacts and to her ability to prove her claims. I'm convinced she believes what she tells us. I have pointed out to her that remarkable claims require remarkable proof, and she states she is up to the test.. Canada's former defence minister claims UFOs exist TORONTO -- Bill Curry reports, "Paul Hellyer has been a Liberal and a Conservative, has run for the leadership of both parties and founded two more, and will announce this month that he believes UFOs exist."=9D Yes, indeed, the 82-year-old former defence minister in Lester Pearson's government is to address the Exopolitics Toronto Symposium on UFO Disclosure and Planetary Directions at U of T's Convocation Hall on September. 25. "My role is really to say publicly for the first time that I believe that what we call unidentified flying objects are real," he said, "... and that people should know more about them and some of the implications of the fact they exist and that they've been observing our planet for more than half a century now." "Yesterday, he said he has never seen a UFO and he had remained unconvinced of their existence until quite recently. In fact, as defence minister (he is known for unifying the forces), Mr. Hellyer said, he received reports of UFO sightings but didn't pay much attention to them. Lately, however, his reading on the subject and other evidence has him convinced they do exist. And he says this has policy implications for governments but will not reveal what he thinks they are. He said he doesn't want to scoop himself. -- The most important discoveries will provide answers to questions that we do not yet know how to ask and will concern objects we have not yet imagined. Thanks to The Globe and Mail and Jane Taber, and Bill Curry RB-47s bombers chase UFO Investigator Hank Schuren reports that he has obtained four (Reconnaissance Bomber) RB-47 reports from Strategic Air Command reporting UFOs in 1955. On 1 June an eastbound RB-47 experienced radar contact with an with a bright unknown return on their APG- 32 set for 20 minutes and the warning light flashed intermittently. The RB-47's K- system recorded what may have been the sweep of another radar nearby. Contact was lost at 2120 Z. Returning over the same route westbound the crew reported the ed Slightly East APG-32 again had a contact for thirty minutes duration at about 8,000 yards. No visual contact was made. At 0030Z on 4 June, a westbound RB-47 experienced the electronic and visual contact with an unknown. The RB-47 gun warning light was flashing and the 5 radar had a contact at 7000 yards. Visual contact was made with a glistening silver metallic unknown that was seen low and to the rear and slightly to the right. The configuration of the unknown was obscured by contrails. The unknown aircraft broke off contact to the north with an increase in speed. The RB-47 was at 32,000 feet was se flying at Mach .735. The radar and visual contact were maintained for 9 minutes. On 7 June at 0050Z, a westbound RB-47 at 35,000 feet experienced electronic contact with an object 3,500 yards at the same altitude. The scope return was square and rectangular. On 8 June at 2044 Z, an eastbound RB-47 flying at 30,000 feet at 450 knots experienced electronic and visual contact with an unknown aircraft. The K system radar indicated sweep from another radar. Visual contact indicates aircraft was 5 to 10000 feet higher and 7 miles behind for twenty minutes. The copilot of the RB-47 states the unknown aircraft had a fighter configuration. A contrail was observed and a second RB-47 traveling 80 miles behind the first also saw the contrail. Thanks to Hank Schuren and SAC Arizona three large bright orange lights ESTRELLA MOUNTAIN -- This was a great night to take the camera with me; I caught some really strange patterns from the Estrella Mountain lights on August 25, 2005, at 9:38 p.m. My girlfriend and I were coming home from the North valley taking the W 101 Freeway going towards the I-10 Interstate. We had just passed Peoria Road and we saw three large bright orange lights in a perfect row with a lonesome fourth one to the bottom left hand side. The fourth one disappeared after a minute or so but the three in a row were there and very bright. Thanks to Mike whose photos are =C2=A92005 by M. Di Silvestro. and Brian Vike Video clip #1 Estrella Mountain, Arizona Three Large Bright Orange Lights. Video clip #3 Arizona Daylight Object Filmed. Footage and Photos can be viewed at: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D3058 California orbs HOLLYWOOD HILLS -- A group of six of us were out on the Hollywood Hills on August 20, 2005, at 12:30 a.m. As we were watching a series of Orbs, even observing planes passing right by them, I captured several shots with my digital, as well as filming with my Sony Cam. We had an amazing encounter and all of us felt we had been teleported. Thanks to Victoria Liljenquist, www.victoriaslight.com Photo shows a green craft with three lights, and another orb in the distance. Photo #2 shows a streak of energy with small balls within it. Again, seeing the small gold orb dancing, after see the photo from my Digital Camera, it develops as a streak of bright white energy. Photo #3 shows an orb flying over us in Hollywood on August 20, 2005. While looking thru my camera, I witnessed a small gold orb dancing around us, just between 6 of us and the trees. When the digital photo was transferred it appeared (enlarged view) this spinning Orb. Thanks to Victoria Liljenquest. Illinois night visitors frightening the family WESTMONT -- Tonight my next door neighbor came to my house around 8:30 PM, and told me that she was very upset! She informed me that last night which was August 24 & 25, 2005, she had been awake all night by orbs of light floating around in her basement and also her bedroom. She had been complaining the month before of this same thing, and her husband even experienced something pulling the covers off him while in bed! Last night her daughter also had the feeling that someone was sitting on her chest about 4 AM, on the 25th! Her daughter finally ran into her mother's bedroom and told her Mom to move over, as she wasn't going to continue sleeping in her room! The daughter is 18 years old, and going off to college soon, so she is not a little girl afraid of the dark! Last week the mother even said she saw what she calls 'The Green Men.' Florida Probable Abduction MUFON's Mary Zimmer reports, On August 2, 2005, the witness called, saying that he had just awakened and was very, very thirsty even after drinking several bottles of water and wanted to tell me about what happened to him. He said that at 1 PM, he watched about ten minutes of the news broadcast and had an overwhelming urge to go out into the back yard. He saw an orange light above the retention pond in back of his yard. He said, that the object that he saw was the same one that he saw over the Gulf, but it was straight across, not tilted and about 200 to 300 feet in the air. It was like a straight bar and pointed at the end, but it may have been a disk. The surface was orange, pulsating, beautiful, flowing like water. There were three squares, then a space and then three more squares. It looked so large that he estimated that it could be covered by "a blanket unfolded"=9D. He saw it for about 45 seconds and then it completely vanished. The night was silent with even the crickets not making noise. He found it hard to get back inside the house. He made some noise coming back, but did not awaken the others in his house. He called me at 3:52 A.M., but "thought it was earlier"=9D, about 1:20 A.M.. There was missing time of two hours and forty-two minutes, during which apparently an abduction took place. Thomas became very thirsty after this, drinking four or five 16 oz. bottles of water at once. He later suffered from vomiting, diarrhea and inability to urinate. None of his neighbors had seen the object. On August 4, he noticed a slight burning sensation on his chest and discovered a small red triangle just below the skin. His doctor didn't know what it was, but didn't think it was anything to worry about. The doctor did find that his Triglycerides were dangerously high, 410, (normal 40 to 200) and said that he could be at risk for a stroke or heart attack. The doctor also found that his Electrolytes were extremely low, and advised him to drink PediaLite and to eat only fruit and vegetables. The family had gone to Cape Canaveral to see the space shuttle return. At a lunch with the astronauts, Thomas' niece asked about drinking Tang. The astronaut said that they no longer drank it, but used a different formula because they had found that weightlessness caused a decrease of electrolytes in the human body. This may be significant to Thomas because his electrolytes were very low after an apparent abduction. The witness was fearful of a little girl with dark eyes in the doctor's waiting room, because her eyes made him afraid as did people who wore sun glasses. Thanks to MM Zimmer and MUFON Case Management System. A forensic scientific approach should be a key part of our investigative arsenal in examining abduction cases. Mississippi disc shaped craft RIDGELAND -- I captured a pretty good picture of a silver, disc-shaped UFO from an interstate overpass bridge on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 at 10:15 a.m... It held a steady position and hovered there for about one or maybe two minutes on a clear and sunny morning. It took off at the speed of sound, without making a sound. Even though I was alone at the time of the sighting, it is quite possible that others in traffic also saw it. Later in the day I spoke with someone else that also saw this UFO, but from a different location, and their description of the UFO, the time of the sighting, and its activity is exactly the same as what I witnessed. Thanks to Brian Vike. http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D3056 New York two disks FARMINGDALE -- It was Sunday, August 28, 2005, at 7:40 PM a family was in the back yard The son was talking to his girlfriend and states, "I looked up and saw what looked to be a star, the sky was still bright and no other stars were out. An aircraft at 34,000 feet passed overhead heading north leaving a trail behind it. The object was in back of the trail. I have video. The UFO stayed in one spot. What was odd is that when the aircraft passed by leaving it's contrail it broke where the UFO was. However, the rest of the contrail was still there. Our neighbors also saw this. We used binoculars and a telescope to get a better look. It was a bright different type of white light coming from this object. Then my neighbor spotted another one to the left of the first one we saw. They were both moving extremely slow heading west and stayed in formation until we lost sight. It took thirty minutes for both UFO's to get to the horizon. Thanks to Peter Davenport. Ohio sightings video AKRON "=93 Amy reports, "I captured UFO video footage and sent it to an investigator, but his VCR is broken so he still hasn't seen the video. My camcorder stinks and won't download onto a computer so the best I can do is a VHS tape. The object moves so quick that you can hardly see it. I had a guy at the photography shop slow it down and put it on a tape. Even in slow motion, it's so fast you can hardly see it, pretty cool. I kept seeing these rainbow spots then these military jets would show up so I started taking pictures, that's how I discovered the UFOs. I never saw any of them when the photos or videos were taken. I would be happy to mail you a copy of the video if you can send me your address, or if you talk to BJ, maybe he would send you his copy. Thanks to Amy FOSTORIA -- George Ritter sends a photo similar to that taken fifty miles away in Akron taken on August 29, 2005. Disc seems to wobble. Thanks to George Ritter. Pennsylvania-UFO and Bigfoot Activity Researcher Stan Gordon reports, UFO sightings and other anomalies continue to be reported during 2005 from across the Keystone state. The PA Bigfoot Society (PBS) has also been investigating some possible Bigfoot encounters. Some of the recent UFO sightings are indeed misidentifications of bright planets and stars. WESTMORELAND COUNTY -- I received a report from a witness who reported seeing a Bigfoot like creature on January 2, 2005, at a rural location along the Chestnut Ridge about 6:30 PM. It was almost dark as the witness was loading up his vehicle and heard a loud crashing sound across the road , and the noise of brush breaking. The man crossed the roadway and looked and about 125 feet distance, was a very large man-like figure moving through the field. He was able to get a good look at the creature which he estimated stood between 7 1/2 and 9 feet tall, was dark brown or black in color, entirely covered in hair, and walking erect on two legs. The witness could see that it had massive arms which hung down to his knees, and swung gracefully as it walked up the hill. The head of the creature seemed to be cone-shaped and no neck was observed. The witness indicated that as the creature continued on it's path at one point it seemed to look towards him, but never changed it's pace. What impressed the witness was how fast the creature was moving up hill in the nearly dark conditions. The creature was covering a large amount of ground in a short time. When the creature reached the horizon, the witness could see the shape of the creature clearly for 90 seconds as it moved into the tree line and was lost from sight. The witness is an avid sportsman who had never experienced anything like this. SMITHFIELD -- Jim Brown interviewed the witness who had a UFO sighting about sundown in early April 2005. He noticed a brilliant light move from a pond 300 feet away and up over some trees and cross the road ahead. The object was very bright, and was giving off light as it moved out of sight. Ten seconds later another similar light appeared, and followed the same path as the first. Minutes later, the man saw both lights fly back from the woods , and diving down towards the pond. Five minutes later, the two lights flew by again. It was getting dark when just then one light came from out of the woods started over the road and stopped over the road like it saw me standing there. It hovered a second, then the other one came out of the woods and joined it. Almost as soon as the second one got there, both of them flew off much faster than they had moved before. The football shaped glowing white objects flew under the railroad bridge. He estimated that the objects were moving at about 45 miles per hour and 100 feet above the ground. GREENSBURG -- The witness was walking with his dog when at about 10:30 PM, he reported seeing an unusual object in the western sky. It was a moonlit night and the object was shaped like a top and could easily be seen as it was backlit from the light of the moon. He first heard a low pitched humming sound, not typical of an aircraft. The witness continued to watch, and saw three red lights in the center part of the object. These lights which blinked in sequence, extended vertically from top to bottom. There were two steady green lights on the right and left side of the object. Also visible were a series of dim white or opaque lights that looked almost like windows with a candle in them across the object. The object was observed for about 1.5 minutes as it moved slowly towards the south. The object seemed to be hovering over the area. The sound of the object became louder as it approached closer to the location of the witness. The dog suddenly began to bark and was looking in another direction. He observed a second object that was moving extremely fast south. The two objects appeared to intersect with the other object at nearly a 90 degree angle, at a far off point in the sky. VANDERGRIFT -- On August 24, 2005, at 5:20 AM,. the witness was loading up his vehicle and saw a strange object moving from the northwest and turning towards the east. The object appeared to be silver in color, and was described by the witness as looking, "a little flatter than a football shape with a bump on top." His attention was drawn to a large second object probably an aircraft coming from Pittsburgh. This object which also was silent, appeared triangular in shape and looked like a stealth aircraft, with a pointed front section, and a flat bottom. This craft also displayed two yellow lights, and a red blinking light on the rear section. The craft appeared to slow down as though to match the speed of the first object which was still crossing the sky. The football shaped object continued moving towards the east. The triangular craft suddenly picked up speed and chased the first object across the hill until they were gone from sight. The witness was very excited and called my UFO hotline just after the observation. Thanks to Stan Gordon www.stangordon.com UFO Hotline: 724-838-7768 Tennessee disk JACKSON "=93 On august 27, 2005, the witness spotted a disk shaped craft around midnight. He states, "My friends and I saw it when we were playing outside. It was very scary, it just hovered above us for about 10 seconds when it took off and a couple of minutes later we started feeling light headed. ((NUFORC Note: Witness elects to remain totally anonymous; provides no contact information. PD)) Australia UFOs photographed NORTH QUEENSLAND -- My name is Ross, I'm a farrier on the Atherton Tablelands and took a video of tri-delta/triangle light configured UFO on August 28, 2005, this time going south to north around 10 PM We have a website at www.asoulartphenomena.com where we try to upload the latest UFO's in picture an video form here as we have had ongoing phenomena for 5 years now nightly. Thanks to Ross NEWCASTLE -- Recent photo taken above the local soccer game. Canada Ring of Lights Edmonton, Alberta Soft Light Blue Object EDMONTON, ALBERTA -- At 11:25 PM, my brother yelled for his wife and myself to come outside "quick!". What appeared to be a shooting star was streaming by horizontally with two changes in direction on August 11, 2005, before it resumed a horizontal path. We easily ruled out a plane because its altitude was higher than any plane we ever witnessed. It did not appear to be a shooting star but was similar to a star in appearance with a soft, light blue coloring. We stood there for about 2-3 minutes until its distances made it hard to see. Thanks to Brian Vike. PENTICTON, BRITISH COLUMBIA -- HBCC UFO Research Note: As you will read in this report, there were others who witnessed the same ring of lights in the sky as this the lady did. I am hoping some other people who saw the object in the sky in this area would be kind enough to contact me with their report. Thanks to Brian Vike. Summerland, B.C.-- My girlfriend saw a big ring at 9:30 PM. She was heading north to Summerland, B.C. coming from Penticton, B.C. and saw something and a couple of customers mentioned that they also saw the same thing. NANAIMO, BRITISH COLUMBIA "=93 The witnesses were northbound on Island Highway on August 28, 2005, at about 8:45 PM when they witnessed a very bright light coming towards them just to the east and traveling in a southerly direction. The witness states, "I saw it first and thought it was a meteorite and I drew my husband's attention to the object that did not have a tail. It appeared to be traveling extremely quickly, much faster than an airplane and in a straight line when all of a sudden it veered slightly east and upwards at an angle and disappeared into the clouds. It was almost dark but not quite. We pulled the car quickly over to the side of the highway and stared out the window expecting the object to appear through the cloud cover on the other side but it just disappeared. Thanks Brian Vike. SCARBOROUGH, ONTARIO -- A white long hooked shaped object was seen on August 26, 2005 while I was at my parent's house at between 2:00-2:30 PM. Viewing south of my position, it's altitude would be 2-3000 feet +. I could see the fluffy seeds flying with the wind at a lower altitude,1000 feet less. This long white hooked shaped object remained stationary for about 30 seconds. Then amazing, when it made its departure, it suddenly straightened out long in length, "horizontally straight". Then in a blink of the eye, it shot across directly west towards Toronto. The straitening act and speed departure did overwhelm me. This thing could bend, and stay stationary for my viewing. You do curse yourself, not having your camera at moments like this. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Home - Phone 250 845 2189 email: hbccufo.nul Website: http://www.hbccufo.org HBCC UFO Oshawa -- Paul Shishis writes: On Sunday, September 4, 2005 between 11:30 AM to 2:30 PM, I have witnessed multiple sightings over Ontario. I confirm seeing them with the naked eye, it's more than just flying seeds up there!. Some of the higher objects stay stationary for a couple of minutes. This first photo to the top left illustrate two large white spherical objects, with a third smaller white object close to the group of two. Thanks to Paul Shishis Blow up of objects. Dominican Republic black UFO INEXPLICATA -The Journal of Hispanic Ufology- At 12:50 PM, on August 29, 2005, the witness saw a completely black UFO at an altitude of between 1000 and 3000 meters. The witness states, I say this because the object flew between a low rain cloud and medium altitude white cloud. We know that rain clouds are usually at an altitude of between 1500 to 2500 meters, with the lowest ones at 1000 meters and the higher ones between 2500-3000 meters. The object was traveling east and its shape was something like the alleged "flying humanoids" seen in Mexico over recent months. I cannot relate it to any other object, such as balloons, birds, airplanes, etc. on account of its very strange shape. Unfortunately I did not have time to get a photograph, as the sighting lasted only some 40 seconds and I did not have a camera at hand. The object was flying in an even, single-row movement, except for a moment in which it made a maneuver resembling a soft curve, which I estimate at some 5-10 degrees. Thanks to Scott Corrales (IHU). UFO Casebook online report Thanks to Kim Shaffer UFO Casebook http://www.ufocasebook.com/ Hungary flying triangle ROMANIAN BORDER -- The witness reports it was 3 AM in the morning and I was near the Romanian border. I looked up in the sky and saw what I thought was a plane at first due to the lights either side (like planes have) then lights appeared in between the lights and started flashing. When they flashed it revealed the shape a triangle. It moved fairly quickly across the sky until it was out of sight, RACIAL ATROCITIES: FOREIGN MEDIA REPORTS WHAT U.S. MEDIA CONCEALS! =46rom News of the World (Britain)... Girls went through "a living hell"=9D as mob rule swept the Superdome. White tourists were targeted, says British student "SURVIVING Hurricane Katrina was the easy bit." "We saw bodies coming into from the dome from the city. One person had six or seven stab wounds."=9D "=94 Eyewitness account. "I saw the body of a soldier. The mob had shot him with his own gun." Eyewitness account Brit newspaper calls Superdome "Horrordome." The news media moves into the disaster areas taking video and photographs of all the misery freely criticizing the government for not responding more quickly. Yet, they are first on the scene with personnel and equipment watching people die and often refusing to give any help. It seems these billion dollar news industries should also have some compassion and ability to help those, if they choose to go into the eye of the storm. One Fox reporter was shown telling how he was seeing babies dying because of lack of water. Yet, he seemed to have plenty. Just after the Hurricane passed near by several broadcasters standing in the middle of New Orleans were telling how once again the city had avoided major damage. It was only a day later when the 17th Street Canal levee broke flooding 80 percent of the city. Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, was surprised that the break in the levee was in a "a section that was just upgraded." "It did not have an earthen levee. It had a vertical concrete wall several feet thick." My question is why could not city employees with bulldozers and earth moving equipment plug the hundred yards of the break. If a city owns some 350 miles of levees it seems logical that the city would own earth moving equipment and trucks to plug the leak? Several hundred city police officers out of 1400 apparently deserted or resigned. Each of us should realize that the weather may become dangerous and that we need to plan ahead and have emergency supplies. Probably most important is water and any needed medical supplies. Most people can live three or four days without food but only a couple days without water. In many emergencies plenty of water is available but needs purification. Cheap purification tablets can purify your water until help comes. Also consider having tools, a mirror and a flashlights for signaling. Subscribe to Filer's Files to receive CD So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. Help solve the mysteries of the universe. We have been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Your dollars do make a difference! We appreciate our loyal subscribers participation but we need everyone's help not just a few. Annual Membership is only $25 for 52 weekly intelligence reports. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055. You can also go to: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master Charge. REAL ESTATE Relocation Help! Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help you relocate, buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at: Majorstar.nul MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO see http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ.nul Filer's Files is copyrighted 2005 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. God bless our service men
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:04:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:06:49 -0400 Subject: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology September 7, 2005 Source: CIUFOS-LaPampa and Planeta UFO Date: 09.07.05 UFOs Over La Pampa The time was approximately 18:00 hours on October 16, 2004 and Gustavo Jose Montiel and his family were heading to Santa Rosa along Circunvalacion Sur avenue from east to west. Upon merging with Ameghino Av, from north to south, he observed toward his left, some 45 degrees over the horizon and at an unspecified altitude and height, a "Flying Object" Faced with this circumstance, he alerted his wife and told her the object was not an airplane. The witness is linked to the aeronautical world through his activities involving electronics and radars. He stopped the vehicle and upon getting out, he looked on in amazement as "two devices, clearly visible, dark in color, shaped like inverted soup plates, were suspended in the air, venting long streams of vapor or white smoke from their lower surfaces." He immediately contacted the local airport control tower with his cellphone to ask whether "they had any aircraft in that sector". Tower personnel replied they did not, and that they could "not check that sector due to a lack of radar coverage." Finally, the witness remained along with other people, observing the phenomenon for several minutes, watching how the "long streams went up and down from those aerial vehicles." At a given moment, one of the UFOs "cut the stream and initiated an escape toward the east and ver the city at a prodigious speed, vanishing in a matter of seconds."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:23:46 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:20:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:55:31 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:18:48 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? Greetings to EBK and the List, as I've just returned from two weeks camping (that I had to cut short for a new job interview) and this has had me out of the loop for awhile. >I have no doubt that eventually science will develop vehicles >that are able to travel at tremendous velocities. But here's the >problem as I see it. In order to travel from star to star, these >star-craft must travel at the speed of light (186,000 miles per >second) and I just don't think that will ever be possible. In >the world of light, there is no time, space, charge or mass and >no rest since light travels at a constant velocity. In >evolutionary terms, everything starts with light, then >particles, followed by atoms which then form molecules. For >molecules to travel at light speeds, they must become light and >lose all identity. That's not even conceivable. We might be able >to send our thoughts or love at light speed but not much more. This matches the ignorance and the foolishness in the claim made long ago that trains could never happen because the air would get sucked out at a certain (low) speed. As such, I think it deserves no further discussion. >So? Do you think that a billion years lead time has given the >Zetas a head start? That isn't the way evolution works, or >trilobites would rule the world. Are you serious? Are you really comparing a trilobite with a human being, or a possible Zeta Reticulian? This is such a faulty understanding of things, it's hard to believe you believe this. A primitive organism like a trilobite is either an evolutionary dead end (and probably becomes extinct), or hangs around unchanged (like the coelacanth [latimeria]), or is part of a line that evolves into something more complicated. Trilobites weren't destined to evolve intelligence. A billion years wouldn't make a difference. Once an intelligent organism has evolved and develops a technology, however, a billion years can make one heck of a difference. >Humans have evolved their >technologies, and taken these technological skills about as far >as they can. >I maintain that the creature in the AA is an evolved >monotreme from a civilization that could be as much as 100 >million years older than our civilization. She is a mammal and >through convergent evolution has become humanoid. This >civilization is limited and vulnerable but technologically >superior to us. We have so many inconsistencies here it's hard to understand. First, you state that humans have evolved their technologies and taken their technological skills about as far as they can, yet the AA monotreme you propose is, as claimed by you, from a civilization that (although limited and vulnerable) is technollogically superior to us. What difference exists that has humans at the stop sign in the road of technological progress but permits your "product of convergent evolution" to go on and become technologically superior? Second, you claim this superior technology of the AA monotreme exists as a result of their civilization being a 100 million years older than our civilization but you just got through saying to Stan that even a billion years wouldn't make a difference or trilobites would rule the world. What difference exists that permits your "product of convergent evolution" to become technologically superior to humans in only a mere 100 million years but prevents the Zeta Reticulians from becoming superior to humans given a billion year head start? I mean, you've said "So? Do you think that a billion years lead time has given the Zetas a head start? That isn't the way evolution works, or trilobites would rule the world. Humans have evolved their technologies, and taken these technological skills about as far as they can." Your own words say that, with regard to a billion years, it isn't a head start because that isn't the way evolution works. According to you, humans have gone about as far as they can go and a billion years wouldn't make a difference to the Zetas so they'd be stuck about where we are now. Yet your "product of convergent evolution" has the ability to become technologically superior in only a 100 million years. >If you'd only study the debris section (reel 10) in the AA CD >set I sent you several years ago and read Dennis Murphy's >"Discussion of the Debris", >http://www.outtahear.com/beyond_updates/debris.htm >then we might be able to have an intelligent discussion. Well, I don't think it is anything Stan is or isn't doing, has or hasn't done, that is a hindrance to an intelligent conversation here. Rather, it is your lack of a clear understanding of several key issues and lack of a clear position
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 UFO Hunters Back In Leeds From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:25:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:25:43 -0400 Subject: UFO Hunters Back In Leeds Source: The Evening Post - Leeds, Yorkshire http://www.leedstoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=3D39&ArticleID=3D11379= 38 07 September 2005 UFO Hunters Back In Leeds... By Paul Jeeves THERE hasn't been anybody out there for a couple of years but UFO spotters are finally heading back to Leeds. The city has long been regarded as a mecca for the UFO community because of the Leeds International UFO Conference, which ran for over two decades. But the annual conferences came to an abrupt halt when Leeds- based organiser Graham Birdsall, a worldwide authority on UFOs and editor of UFO Magazine, died suddenly at the age of 49 in September 2003. An internet magazine was co-launched the following year by Kippax enthusiast Russel Callaghan, who previously worked with Mr Birdsall on his publication. Hooked And such has been the success of the online magazine that Russel has decided to venture back into the unknown and bring a conference back to Leeds in the form of The Great British UFO Show. He said: "Despite public perception there is still a massive amount of interest in this subject. There is definitely something going on out there and we are just attempting to explore that." Russel, 46, says he had his first encounter with a UFO in 1980, while working as a bus conductor, on Odsal Moor Top. Since then he has had just one other encounter but admits to being completely hooked by the subject. The conference takes place on Saturday October 1, and is being staged in the Leeds rugby supporters club at Headingley stadium. Around 200 visitors are expected at the event which will feature five guest speakers and an open floor session where guests can show film or photographs to the audience. Among the speakers will be author and broadcaster Philip Mantle who has written several books about alleged alien abduction. Research He will be joined by Malcolm Robinson, who heads the Strange Phenomena Investigations group, Christopher Martin and John Hanson. Russel added: "The city of Leeds has a long tradition of presenting quality UFO lectures and events, with some of the worlds best known researchers, scientists, PhDs, physicists, authors and presenters having set foot upon a stage in the city. "We decided it was time this happened again." Tickets priced =A315 can be booked online at
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:50:24 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:29:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:01:54 -0500 >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:26:46 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>However, you should also request (from NASA) the video >>segment you are talking about and ask for telemetry timetags >>too. This will confirm to you that the flashes occur at the >>12:30:39 and 12:30:40 firings (which it does). You can likely >>count on those time tags more so than the "estimate" from the >>MCC clocks. I doubt NASA would tamper with them since >>they didn't erase the "UFOs" in the videos. >You've got it backwards. The video time tags can be true >telemetry time tags. But in some cases they can be estimates, as >the screwy time tags on the STS-48 video proved. The time >counters kept incrementing during a loss of signal because they >were only estimates added after the mission. You most certainly >_cannot_ count on their accuracy. Oberg's claim that they were >high-precision time tags turned out to be a load of rubbish. Oh yeah, now I remember. There _were_ alot of questions about the time tags for STS-48. I never really was able to resolve exactly how the time tags worked. I could not get an "operational manual" on how they worked, just hearsay. I have always relied on them because they seem to match events pretty well, although I can't say I have ever needed them to match to the second! >Why on earth do you claim that the MCC clock is an >"estimate"? It's a clock. It tells the _time_ for crying out >loud. Setting a >clock to the correct time should be a simple matter. If they >can't set that clock correctly, there's no reason to trust any >of their time "estimates" including the RCS firing telemetry. I say "estimate" because YOU assume the time on the clock is the same as the time at the camera. Some people have claimed significant lags in video (>1 minute) to help remove the "alien spaceship footage". Well, I don't believe they are THAT long but they may have some length based on the time it takes for the video to travel from the camera, through the switchgear and electronics and transmitter through to TDRSS (in geo-orbit) then to a ground station receiver, decoded and passed over a land line to electonics and switchgear at MCC. Now that I think about it, since the Shuttle camera is moving pretty fast and transmitting, there should be a changing time lag in the images. They likely have some fancy way to account for that. Maybe they have a built in lag to handle this. The video has time tags embedded in it (along with telemetry data) so perhaps it takes time to decode these too and a buffer exists to handle these kinds of processing. So while the MCC clocks are very accurate and Shuttle clocks are very accurate and synchronized at launch , the MCC clocks do not reflect the time the video was taken, and generally it doesn't make much difference since seeing something 3-8 seconds later doesn't alter the event too much. Thruster firings and major engine operations are handled by the Shuttle clock and not the MCC clock. The Shuttle clock should be the time tagged to the video and telemetry stream but sometimes it gets botched up for various reasons. >>Are you telling me that we have a swarm of UFOs passing in front >>of Shuttle cameras (usually at dusk and dawn) which implies that >>the entire LEO and below orbit has the SAME frequencies of >>spacecraft thus implying we have been invaded? >No, I don't recall telling you that. You're letting your >imagination run away with you again. Okay. I assume you are stirring this whole NASA UFO video mess up again for some reason. I assume that you want these videos to prove that TRUFOs exist. The thing is that if you want the course changing UFOs to be non-prosaics (alien or somebody's spaceship), then what about all the other moving lights that don't move in anything but a straight line. If we accept your course changing ones as TRUFOs then the straight line moving ones must be TRUFOs too (since the only real difference between the two groups is one set showed course change and the others showed no course change). In that case, we have alot of TRUFOs out there and since the video segment can be assumed "random" (they weren't "looking" for UFOs) then we can extrapolate that such spatial densities of TRUFOs over the Earth must occur all the other times the video camera is not pointed at just the right angle, illumination, etc. If these TRUFOs are assumed to be alien ships, then the numbers of such craft imply an over- whelming display of numbers which could be taken as an infraction (at least) of our air space and pessimistically taken as an invasion. >>These really seem to be no more than debris/ice, similar to many >>other video segments. >So you proclaim. The MCC clocks indicate that the object >accelerates when no thruster was firing, which means it is not >similar to debris/ice. The nearness of the event to a thruster firing is enough for most folk to say that these events are synchronous. Same with STS-48. Are you suggesting that the TRUFOs have sufficient intelligence to know a thruster is going to fire then move prior to firing just to give insider folk the wink that... "yes, we are here"? Or is the light "flash" really a Shuttle mounted laser to fire at TRUFOs that get too close (not that YOU say this)? >There's another interesting thing about the object that was not >mentioned in my article. The cargo bay video cameras are >oriented relative to the orbiter so that the thrusters are >always below the bottom edge of the video frame. The object in >the STS-102 video accelerates _toward_ the bottom of the frame >and therefore toward the thrusters. That would be the wrong >direction for most camera orientations, debris particles should >be pushed toward the top of the video frame because that's the >direction opposite to the thrusters' position. This was the Shuttle Payload Bay "Port Aft" camera. The attitude from: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/archives/sts-102/timeline/fd12sum.pdf has the Shuttle listed at -ZLV-XVV for orbit 174. http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/shuttle/msl/realtime/attitude.html So the payload bay was pointed down to Earth and the Shuttle was moving "tail first". As to camera angle, from adjacent footage I suspect it not looking toward the front of the Shuttle. So the thruster must be an aft one and the objects must be in proximity to it. What is the orientation of the thrusters relative to the camera? Examining the footage shows that the camera actually rotates (its lens?) such that the entire image rotates. So I don't think you can claim the thrusters are always "below the frame". I forget where they are exactly but I have a nice diagram showing them somewhere relative to the absolute camera position. How a plume propagates is not clear. You need to do more work to prove the claim that the plume could not blow the debris in the observed direction. Without decent stereo imagery or radar or confirming ground based or other imagery, this is a hopeless cause, it will always be intepretible as prosaic stuff no matter what. >>An interesting video segment that may be you can look into is >>the only from the STS-114 recent Shuttle flight. It occurred at >>GMT 218/13:51 (orbit 174, the SAME orbit as the STS-102 one). >Possibly the object that changes course is being subjected to >drag forces while the particles that don't move are shielded by >the orbiter's body from the "wind." >The Earth's atmosphere is >tenuous, but it's moving at 17,000 mph relative to the orbiter. >After the course reversal, the object is clearly moving in the >same direction as the "wind," which is consistent with a small >object near the orbiter. But it still seems strange that the >atmosphere in what is supposed to be "outer space" could have >such a dramatic effect, even on a small debris particle. >Actually, there should be a way to quantitatively determine if >atmospheric drag could cause the course reversal. Given the >atmosphere's density at the orbiters altitude and some >reasonable assumption about distance from the camera, you can >calculate the thickness of a particle that could be accelerated >by the pressure of the atmospheric drag by the appropriate >amount. I've been thinking of doing that but haven't gotten >around to it yet. I really don't think the wind or solar pressure caused this one. The "fixed" ones (how are they fixed?) seem farther away but
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Secrecy News -- 09/07/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:56:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:30:41 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/07/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 85 September 7, 2005 ** DEMONSTRATED DESTRUCTION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS (1967) ** SECRECY REPORT CARD ** A RAFT OF CRS REPORTS DEMONSTRATED DESTRUCTION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS (1967) Once upon a time, the government of the United States sought ways and means to achieve negotiated reductions in stockpiles of nuclear weapons through the verified destruction of such weapons. In 1965, US Ambassador to the United Nations Arthur J. Goldberg presented what was known as the "Transfer" proposal, under which the U.S. would transfer 60,000 kilograms of weapons grade uranium to nonweapons uses if the Soviet Union would transfer 40,000 kilograms. Each country would destroy existing nuclear weapons to make these materials available. In order to assess whether nuclear weapons could be verifiably destroyed for this purpose without disclosing sensitive design information, the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency and the Defense Department conducted a field test of the process in summer 1967. The field test was part of a program known as "Cloud Gap," a remarkable government initiative established in 1963 "to test the feasibility of hypothetical arms control and disarmament measures." The 1967 Cloud Gap Field Test-34 was "an investigation of the demonstration of the destruction of nuclear weapons by visual observation, use of radiation detection equipment, inspection of X-ray plates of weapons, and laboratory analyses of the resulting fissionable material." The field test, which was documented in more than a thousand pages, did in fact identify weaknesses in the protection of classified information and in the ability of inspectors to distinguish real weapons from decoys. The final report on the test, however, also noted ways in which these weaknesses could be mitigated. Today, Cloud Gap Field Test-34 is scarcely a footnote in the history of nuclear weapons and national security, a road not taken. Yet in its unusual dedication to the empirical testing of policy options, Cloud Gap may still have something to teach. An assortment of Cloud Gap documents obtained by the Federation of American Scientists, including the Final Report on Field Test-34, may be found here: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/cloudgap/index.html SECRECY REPORT CARD Many Americans have sensed a qualitative reduction in their access to government information, particularly when it concerns matters of security policy. Now a new publication from the coalition OpenTheGovernment.org provides some quantitative benchmarks that confirm and document the rise in official secrecy. Metrics cited in the report range from formal classification -- which is at a record high -- to the fraction of federal advisory committee meetings closed to the public -- nearly two-thirds. See the Secrecy Report Card 2005 by Rick Blum, OpenTheGovernment.org, September 2005: http://www.openthegovernment.org/otg/SRC2005.pdf A RAFT OF CRS REPORTS Some recent reports of the Congressional Research Service obtained by Secrecy News include the following: "Oil and Gas: Supply Issues After Katrina," August 31, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22233.pdf "Tactical Aircraft Modernization: Issues for Congress," updated August 30, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/IB92115.pdf "Strategic Petroleum Reserve," updated August 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IB87050.pdf "Federal Disaster Recovery Programs: Brief Summaries," updated August 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL31734.pdf "Federal Stafford Act Disaster Assistance: Presidential Declarations, Eligible Activities, and Funding," August 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL33053.pdf "Risk-Based Funding in Homeland Security Grant Legislation: Analysis of Issues for the 109th Congress," August 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL33050.pdf "Sudan: Humanitarian Crisis, Peace Talks, Terrorism, and U.S. Policy," updated August 26, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IB98043.pdf "Department of Homeland Security Reorganization: The 2SR Initiative," August 19, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL33042.pdf "Al Qaeda: Profile and Threat Assessment," August 17, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/RL33038.pdf "Legislative Approaches to Chemical Facility Security," August 16, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL33043.pdf "Loss-of-Use Damages From U.S. Nuclear Testing in the Marshall Islands: Technical Analysis of the Nuclear Claims Tribunal's Methodology and Alternative Estimates," August 12, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL33029.pdf "Tsunamis and Earthquakes: Is Federal Disaster Insurance in our Future?," April 6, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32847.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Clarification On Hall's Withdrawal From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:36:46 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:35:52 -0400 Subject: Clarification On Hall's Withdrawal Apparently my comments on this List and my appearance on Strange Days... Indeed last Saturday have led to some confusion about my current activities in the UFO field. I _am_ withdrawing from the field - slowly and with very mixed feelings - but I have not lost interest and intend to follow significant events as closely as available time permits. I have resigned from all formal board member or editorial positions. I am disposing of my files gradually where they will be archived - done deal. I have no intention of doing any more TV interviews - following the bitterly disappointing ABC-TV/Peter Jennings fiasco which I have reviewed for the Journal of Scientific Exploration - with an occasional exception such as the current project by Paul Kimball. But cable TV schlockmeisters need not apply, as several of them have learned the hard way recently. And by the way, I have now seen two episodes of the current History Channel series, UFO Files, and it really sucks. Reasons for withdrawal: In a few more months I will be 75 years old and I have lost most of my retirement funds thanks to spinoff from the Enron scandal, then lost my part-time job of many years, only to face obvious age prejudice in trying to find new work. So, as a realist I recognize that UFOs have to be only a spare-time interest from now on while I try to find ways to generate income. Passively, I will monitor UFO UpDates even though it seems at times that the lunatics have taken over the asylum. But Chief Psychiatrist Errol is a fair-minded and tolerant boss and who am I to second-guess him. Actively, I will continue to publish my "Journal of UFO History" (which so far is paying for itself)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Salla & Stone - Salla From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:12:09 -1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:42:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Salla & Stone - Salla >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:14:31 EDT >Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 05:06:45 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:28:25 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Salla & Stone <snip> >So, if I understand the argument correctly, you are suggesting >that rigorous debate in an academic arena is preferable to >investigative experience because the contentious methodological >issues need to be carefully evaluated and such experience in not >available in the real world. In the academic community scholars are 1. trained to conceptualize any new phenomenon that comes to their attention in their fields of competence; 2. formulate appropriate hypotheses for investigating the phenomenon; 3. develop appropriate methodological criteria for investigating the phenenonon; and 4. conduct investigations/experiments. The actual field work, investigation or experiment is something that provides a feed back loop to the scholarly process so data from field investigations/experiments will produce a better conceptualization of the phenomenon. As to the importance of "real world investigation", that provides data, but that data needs to be subjected to a rigorous scholarly process aimed at first conceputalizing the phenomenon, formulating hypotheses, etc. If one does the field work and relies on those doing the field work for conceptualizing the phenomenon and formulating hypotheses, then the biases of the field investigators distort the study. Field investigators are not exposed to the rigorous methodological debates in academia so they can considerably underestimate the variables involved in the phenemenon being studied. In the academic community, one has the advantage of having a diverse set of viewpoints that are detached from the phenemonon and therefore more objective. >The 1992 meeting sponsored by CUFOS >and FUFOR to investigate the Plains of San Agustin controversy >(as well as the credibility of Gerald Anderson) does not count >for this sort of contentious experience (though I will note that >it became quite contentious a number of times) because it was >not in an academic forum. Or maybe I should say that it was not >held at an academic institution, though it seemed to be academic >in nature. I'm sure there is heated debate over particular cases and how to evaluate these among investigators. Many of the key field investigators such as Richard Hall have decades of experience and written impressive evaluations of the UFO data based on field investigations. He would be a good example of the competent field investigator with lots of real life experience whose perspective certainly needs to be considered in debates over particular cases. Nevertheless, his ability to conceptualize the UFO phenomenon and to come up with appropriate methodology is questionable since he has been very selective as to what data to admit and what to reject. Whistleblower and contactee data has been routinely dismissed due to the alleged absence of hard evidence and documentation. However, as I've argued, this overlooks the distorting factor of a national security system designed to systematically remove, alter or discredit such evidence/documentation. >And those of us who have training in the academic and real world >investigative techniques must take a backseat to those who have >been graduate student and thesis advisors because we haven't >been exposed to these diverse methodologies. As to who sits in front or back seat that is moot. What is necessary is a dialogue where each's perspective is fully considered and factored into the investigation. I have yet to see that consideration for different approaches in this forum from most veteran researchers. For example, I detect no shift in your position that in the absence of hard evidence or documentation, the testimonies of whistleblowers/contactees are just a bunch of unsubstantiated tall stories that at best should be ignored or at worst condemned as outright lies. You haven't shifted your position at all despite our repeated exchanges since you basically dismiss the evidence that a national security system has been set up to systematically distort and remove hard evidence and to intimidate witnesses into silence. Basically, you have failed to accurately conceptualize the UFO phenomenon and all the factors which contextualize its investigation. >And finally, having worked in the field on any number of UFO >cases, including the one in which it was first reported that the >aliens had actually entered the house (see Budd Hopkins Missing >Time, p. 142 in the paperback in which he references the Patty >Price case, which he referenced to Coral Lorenzen Abducted pp 9- >42 in which she referenced me and Saga magazine in which the >first article appeared. I gave her the name Patty Price because >at the time the article was written she wanted to remain >anonymous but it she has since changed her mind and we know her >as Pat Roach), I would think would establish not only my >research credentials but also a use of diverse methodologies >just the sort you'd appreciate in the academic arena. Extensive field work experience is no substitute for correctly conceptualizing the phenomenon being studied. You have failed to properly conceptualize the UFO phenemenon since you have jumped into the fray of investigating cases with all your biases and simply not incorporated other perspectives that are contrary to your biases. The bias I'm speaking of is the need for quantiative analysis of the hard evidence. If you were in an academic community you would be excoriated for holding such views in fields such as political science where all political factors need to be fully considered including distorting variables such as the nature of the national security system. I know since I've seen at first hand the kind of criticisms scholars have for their peers with an affinity for quantitative analysis of the hard evidence in Political Science departments. Quantitative analysis may be acceptable in some fields of phyiscal sciences, but qualitative analysis is stressed more in the social sciences. If you were to present your methods and analysis before your academic peers, you would be rightly excoriated for your method. Instead, all you do is present your research method to like minded investigators and given pats on the back from those sharing your biases. That is not scholarship, just group think! <snip> >>There was no title that Stone mentioned other than his >>description of it as a Guide for EBEs. He did not mention a >>title page or anything on its cover that suggested it can be >>tracked down through FOIA. >Why am I not surprised? No way to verify the existence of this >document. Yes, it would be helpful if he had more information. I'll follow up to see what more can be learned about the guide he claims to have consulted between 1979-89. <snip> >>I fail to see your point here about a convenient rationale for >>Stone not answering all questions you may put to him. I've >>written a short article about asking the right questions of >>whistleblowers at: http://www.exopolitics.org/Exo-Comment-30.htm >>. Asking "tough questions" may easily compromise a whistleblower >>in terms of any security oath. You can't simply assume that >>since he may have 'broken' or 'stretched' some oaths and has >>apparently not been incarcerated, that he is free to continue >>'breaking' his oaths without risking future incarceration. Stone >>is describing a security system that appears to condone some >>leaks but not others. I don't see why that concept is difficult >>for you to grasp. Public acclimation is very likely occuring as >>evidenced by the number of whistleblowers coming forward, and >>some of Stone's disclosures are permitted while others aren't. >>Certainly the threats he claims to have received make it >>important to consider the possibility that he is subject to >>constraints. >I never said that he was free to continue to break his oaths but >that he has never offered us anything that was new and different >as a way of verifying his credentials. Everything has already >been in the public arena so there is no proof that he was an >insider as claimed nor that he had any special knowledge of >classified programs. And when we ask for additional information >that is directly credited to Stone so that we could begin the >verification process, that information is denied because Stone >is not free to divulge that specific and apparently classified >information. He certainly offered something that was new and different when you wrote your Project Moondust and referred to him as a pioneer. Stanton Friedman also thought similarly when writing the foreward to Stone's book. Stone as you have recently said is a dogged researcher who has gained access to many documents through FOIA research. Does that prove his an insider? No, but it helps establish his credibility as a UFO researcher over several decades that 'may' have been stimulated by his insider status. Stone can prove that he was harassed by the US military for his FOIA activities during his active service, that shows someone at a certain level was not happy with Stone's activities. As for your requests for further information from Stone that might help establish his credibility, I think what he has currently offered should rightly be the focus of investigation rather than further information that you specifiy. Your metholodogy here is suspect since Stone's testimony should not be dismissed on the grounds of what he believes he cannot divulge. >>As for Project Moon Dust, Brad Sparks directed me to a 1978 FOIA >>letter received by Robert Todd from the US Air Force mentioning >>Project Moon Dust. That's the earliest documented reference so >>far to Project Moon Dust that I have found. Stone has claimed he >>told Tom Adams and Gary Barker about Project Moon Dust in 1977 >>while he was stationed in Europe, and there is the possibility >>that Adams/Barker passed this on to Todd. So I'm currently >>researching that possibility. >>For the record, Stone has two military newspaper stories about >>him in 1980 where he was interviewed for his FOIA UFO work. By >>1980, Stone was quoted in the stories to have thousands of pages >>of documents he had received through FOIA requests since 1974. >>So Stone was clearly a pioneer along with Robert Todd and others >>in FOIA requests on UFO documents. The idea he "ripped off" >>Todd's work is not supported by the newspaper stories that show >>Stone FOIA work dates back to 1974. >No, the newspaper stories actually show that his work dates back >to 1980 and document his claim of working on it since 1974. We >have nothing to verify that claim. Stone should be able to >document it with letters and FOIA requests dated to that time. >I have lots of them for my work that include the responses from >various governmental agencies. He should be able to produce the >first letter he has that references Moon Dust. Stone claims to have two military newspaper articles from 1980 that covered his FOIA work in the 1970s. When I get copies I will be happy to make them available to substantiate his claims. I'll also look into FOIA requests and responses he received in the 1970s. <snip> >>Clifford Stone has told me that he has given his word not to >>reveal the new classified name for Project Moondust. I don't >>know why you would assume that he is free to reveal all his >>knowledge about classified projects. We need to analyse Stone's >>testimony in terms of what he has revealed, not what he hasn't >>revealed or is willing to answer in terms of "tough questions" >>that may compromise him. Your approach does not appear >>sufficiently nuanced in cases like Stone where there does appear >>to be threats that greatly concern and constrain him. >That is my point - he is not free to reveal anything, yet he has >in the past. However, he has given us _nothing_ that we didn't >already have. He provided us with no new evidence and no new >areas to search. All the inside information he has provided was >available, sometimes on a limited basis, to anyone doing the >research. He had no particular insight for us. He has given testimony about his role in UFO crash retrieval teams, and has used FOIA requests as a means of getting out some of the information he allegedly learned from his service. Substantiating his testimony with the available documentary evidence is a challenge and I and others are currently working on this. To say he has no particular insight for us is incorrect. It's more correct to say he has no conclusive documentation to substantiate his testimony. That means we need to explore other means for substantiating his testimony which incredibly important for UFO research and exopolitical analysis. >>>I will point out here that we are forgetting that many of his >>>statements about his Vietnam service (crawling through the wire >>>to engage the VC on a one-on-one basis, that he told the first >>>sergeant when he arrived in Vietnam that he wanted a combat >>>assignment and hadn't been trained as a clerk, are false) and >>>that when he has been caught a couple of times, he has reversed >>>his position, changing the tale to fit the facts. And before you >>>ask, the one that springs immediately to mind is his claimed >>>involvement with the Kecksburg UFO event of 1965. >>Stone claims to have never been trained as a typist which was a >>cover for his crash retrieval training and activities. This is >>something he claims to be able to prove through documentation >>and I'm presently looking more into that aspect of his case. As >>for his specific duties and activities while serving in Vietnam, >>I think your focus on them are a distraction from Stone's >>central claims that he was involved in UFO crash retrievals >>which need to be analysed and not simply dismissed as you are >>doing. >The documentation that exists today shows that Stone trained as >a clerk-typist and that all his assignments were in the admin >field. There is no documentation to suggest otherwise. My point >has always been that if what he said is true, then there would >be some kind of documentation to support it. If he has the >training that he claims, then he should have some kind of >personal documentation to support those claims. He has offered >nothing other than the claim his records were altered. You keep glossing over one of Stone's central claims that his military service record was altered so as to not have any reference to his actual military training and service. So his military service record is therefore incomplete due to document manipulation. Document manipulation is a very important claim and we need to develop appropriate criteria for assessing Stone's claim. Simply saying the substantiating documentation is not available and therefore Stone's claims are unsubstantiated and should be rejected is not a suitable response when we consider the kind of national security system in place to deal with the UFO phenomenon. Requesting documentation to prove claims that documetation has been altered or removed is circular reasoning. We need to developed other means of substantiating testimonies here. >My point here has been that if Stone is less than honest in his >tales from Vietnam, what makes you believe that he would be any >more candid in his tales of UFO research and participation? >>As for the Kecksberg crash, Stone claimed to have remote viewed >>the UFO crash to his "Captain" mentor before he enlisted in >>1969. It was Stone's 'psychic abilities' that apparently made >>him suitable as an interface with ETs and Kecksberg was part of >>the circumstances which led to his recruitment into the UFO >>crash retrieval teams. Stone claimed to have been used for >>telepathic communications. I think subsequent research on remote >>viewing has demonstrated its effectiveness and why the military >>was interested in someone like Stone with natural psychic >>abilities. >Okay, I wished to avoid this because it was going to involve a >lot of typing on my part but this latest explanation - that he >remote viewed the UFO crash is really the last straw (and if >Stone is this good, how come he never made it past E-7 meaning >sergeant first class). >According to what Stone told the Unsolved Mysteries hotline >after they ran their Kecksburg UFO story, Stone had personally >witnessed the armed military convoy, helmeted soldiers and a >flatbed truck carrying the damaged UFO out of Kecksburg. On >Sightings in 1992, Stone made a similar claim (which means the >claim is documented on video tape, which Stone should be able to >provide). Stan Gordon, the main researcher into Kecksburg, said >that Stone told him that he, Stone, was a civilian and that a >friend at Lockbourne AFB, Ohio, called to tell him that the UFO >that was in the news had been brought to the base. The friend >(conveniently unidentified), picked up Stone and drove him to >the base where he hid in the car in the parking lot outside a >back gate and saw the convoy arrive, stay awhile and then leave >for Wright-Patterson AFB, also in Ohio. >Stone has not renewed these claims since 1992 or 1993. But, >the real point is that Stone didn't suggest then that he had >remote viewed the site, but had actually been there, until it >was realized that he would have been a 16 year-old student >living some 90 miles away from Lockbourne AFB. Then, >rather than being in Kecksburg to witness the convoy and all >the ancillary events, he changed the story to having seen the >convoy arrive at one Air Force base and then transferred to >another. And, now he remote viewed it. So, which version is >the truth? According to my knowledge of this incident, Stone was accompanied by his mentor, Captain Brown, to a location where the Kecksberg convoy passed by. Stone was requested to remote view what he could see under the covers. He correctly identified the contents to the satisfaction of his Captain mentor. This demonstrated Stone's psychic abilities which was what led to his eventual recruitment into the UFO retrieval team. Stone claims he was recruited to directly interface with the ETs due to his unique psychic abilities. I hope that clarifies what occurred. I see no inconsistency in Stone's claims. >>I'm presently doing more research on Stone's case and will get >>back to you and the forum with my results. >Let's recap for those who haven't been paying attention to this >rather tiring exchange. Stone said that he was not trained as a >clerk, yet his records and his military assignments suggest >otherwise. Stone claims his records have been altered but has >offered no evidence that this is the case. He said that when he >arrived in Vietnam, he told his first sergeant that he wasn't >really a clerk and requested a combat assignment (a very noble >request by the way) and when refused, sometimes crawled through >the wire to engage in one-on-one combat with the Viet Cong. >Again, he has no proof of this and such tales are universally >rejected as invention. He claimed that he was at the Kecksburg >UFO crash site and saw the military convoys, etc., later said >that he was at an Air Force base to see the convoys and finally >that he had, in reality, remote viewed the scene. He claims that >he was on the inside on a crash retrieval team, again offering >no proof that this was the case, that he revealed Moon Dust to >the UFO world, and that he saw the alien autopsy film in 1969. >Again, he has no proof of this and we know that he didn't say a >word about the alien autopsy film until after Ray Santilli >showed it to the world. Yet, with all these problems and when >Stone has contradicted himself about his involvement in the >Kecksburg case (which, by the way, he could tell us the truth >about because he was a civilian and Posse Comitatus prohibits >the prosecution of civilians by military authorities) and when >he offers no proof that any of this is true, you prefer to >believe Stone is telling you the absolute truth than the >possibility that he has been, shall we say, inventing his tales. >And contrary to the spin put on it, these are major problems >with the tales told by Stone and until and unless there is some >sort of documented resolution, the only logical conclusion is >that Stone has invented these stories. >And I don't really mean to pick on Stone here. The same can be >said for many of the so-called whistleblowers including the one >who spent years in jail for child molestation (oh, yes, he was >framed to undermine his credibility, I forgot). What I have been >suggesting and what many others would like to see, is some sort >of unbiased vetting of the witnesses to establish their >credibility so that we're not caught, once again, with egg on >our faces. How many times must we be caught before we start some >serious research (and yes, I include myself in this - after all >I believed Frank Kaufmann and he actually had some documentation >to prove what he said). I agree that this exchange is getting tiring since obviously you do not appreciate the view that relying exclusively on documents to substantiate the testimony of whistleblowers is an inadequate methodology. You have failed to adequately conceptualize the task before us since you dismiss evidence that a national security system exists to systematically alter, remove or destroy documentation. Such evidence comprises the testimony of whistleblowers such as Clifford Stone, Phil Schneider, Daniel Burisch, Bob Lazar, Michael Wolf, etc., who all atest to working on classified projects involving EBEs/ETVs. The supporting data gained from investigator gives much credence to such a system in existence. Furthermore, we have the Majestic Documents pointing to the existence of a "Cosmic Watergate" that is in existence and where an elaborate security system is in place to deal with the available data. You keep repeating that we need documentation to substantiate each and every claim made by a whistleblower by documentation. That unfortunately is not always possible due to the nature of national security system designed to maintain secrecy over data confirming the ETH. In short, you have failed to adequately analyse the ramifications of your own thesis concerning the Roswell crash. Your analysis of the evidence, unless you've shifted position recently, is that the Roswell crash happened and the elements of the US military and government have lied. Your belief is that "Cosmic Watergate" is maintained by systematic lying and enforcement of compartmentalized security procedures to maintain operational security. The implicit logic in your position doesn't add up since over decades the biggest security threat would become disgruntled whistleblowers. To counter that threat, the "Cosmic Watergate" would need to ensure that documentation for employees and servicemen doesn't contain their true training, credentials or assignements in case they become whistleblowers, and need to be discredited. That would be the most logical system to put in place. What you are suggesting is a very illogical security system for a Cosmic Watergate spanning over five decades. My conclusion is that documentation has its place but should not be used as the exclusive criterion for assessing whistleblower testimony otherwise we'll never get to analyse the exopolitical implications of their testimonies.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Frola From: Robert Frola <ufologist.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:30:51 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:44:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Frola >From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:01:19 +1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >My impression is that Exopolitics has, at the very least, >revealed holes in current UFO research practices and you appear >to be applying methodologies from other disciplines in an >attempt to fill those gaps.What's wrong with that? Especially in >the midst of a Ufology that has become like a dog on a chain >that has worn the ground bare. You say 'What's wrong with that?' As long as researchers don't push aspects of Ufology which has already been proven to be a hoax and basing your scientific conclusions on this. Such as Daniel Fry , George Adamski etc, as your husband Martin Gottschall does on numerous occasions through local public meetings and National Conferences. Despite all the evidence which has emerged and research which has gone into investigating these claims, you still ignore it. Amazing. Its almost like a religious belief. All hail Adamski, the bringer of truth and wisdom. Wow.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Sandia Lights Mystery Solved... Maybe From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:54:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:54:02 -0400 Subject: Sandia Lights Mystery Solved... Maybe Source: The Alberqueque News Journal - New Mexico http://www.abqjournal.com/news/07134346nmmystery09-07-05.htm Wednesday, September 07, 2005 Sandia Lights Mystery Solved... Maybe By Bruce Daniels Journal Staff Writer Will the Sandia Lights =97 a string of stationary lights seen along Sandia Crest Tuesday night =97 join the Taos Hum and the UFO Crash near Roswell as part of New Mexico's permanent museum of weirdness? Apparently not. Just as the state's newest mystery was deepening, eyewitnesses told U.S. Forest Service officials Wednesday they had seen people on the crest Monday carrying large boxes with photographic equipment and again on Tuesday people setting up large "can-shaped lights" along the crest for some kind of photo shoot or photo experiment. Phones were ringing off the hook at news media outlets and official agencies Tuesday night and Wednesday morning as a string of lights =97 some said five or six placed at regular intervals along or just below the Sandia Peak ridge =97 appeared between just after sundown until around 10 p.m. Tuesday. Officials were just as baffled as the general public until people came forward Wednesday and told the Forest Service what they had seen. "Someone saw a group of three people Monday afternoon carrying large boxes with photo equipment," District Ranger Jackie Andrew of the Sandia Ranger District said Wednesday. "They were told it was kind of a photography experiment." Then, a person living at Sandia Peak's Crest House with Forest Service authorization told officials he had seen some seven or eight battery-operated lights, similar to those found at construction sites, lined up along the crest, Andrew said. Whoever lined up the lights "took the photos and left," said Forest Service spokeswoman Karen Takai. The explanation "wasn't terribly exciting," said Andrew, who earlier Wednesday had joked, "There were no reports of aliens on the crest this morning." More likely, Andrew said before the Forest Service had the witnesses come forward, the lights had been caused by nighttime hikers placing lights at regular intervals along the trail, "a see-the-woods-at-night kind of thing." Mark Chavez, spokesman for the Cibola National Forest, said the same thing. "We suspected it was a group of hikers hiking at night." But, he added, "we're just as curious to find out what it was as everybody else." A Bernalillo County sheriff's deputy was dispatched to the crest Tuesday night and found nothing, said BCSO spokeswoman Erin Kinnard. "The deputy cleared the call around 10:15 (p.m.) and said it was nothing." In fact, the whole public uproar about the lights was much ado about nothing, Kinnard said. "We got lots of calls," she said. "But we didn't spend a lot of time on it." Sandia Peak Tramway manager George Boyden said the tram got "all kinds of phone calls" from newspapers, radio and television stations and the general public. "We still don't have any idea what it was," Boyden said. The first light appeared shortly after sunset, around 7:30 p.m., Boyden said. Then five or six lights appeared at regular intervals, "all right along the ridge" between the Crest House and the tramway terminal, he said. Boyden said the lights were visible from below the crest as he was driving home around 9 p.m. and were still visible around 10 p.m. Boyden said he thought when the first light was reported was that somebody had gotten lost, but when more lights appeared he said he joked to coworkers that "maybe the UFOs had landed." More likely, Boyden said, the lights could have been part of a promotional stunt =97 one that could well backfire if it was an organized activity that had failed to get a permit from the U.S. Forest Service. District Ranger Andrew said that a check of the trail where the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Tunguska Event Half As Likely From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:00:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:00:07 -0400 Subject: Tunguska Event Half As Likely Source: The Australian Broadcasting Corporation - Sydney, New South Wales, Australia http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1455279.htm Thursday, 8 September 2005 Tunguska Event Half As Likely Anna Salleh ABC Science Online Destructive comets, like the one many people say slammed into the Tunguska region of Siberia last century, are much rarer than we think, new research finds. Australian scientist Dr Paul Francis of the Research School of Astronomy and Astrophysics at Mount Stromlo, estimates small comets that pose a risk to Earth are half as common as others predict. "These things are pretty rare," says Francis, who will report his findings in the Astrophysical Journal. "I calculate that small comets, capable of destroying a city, only hit the Earth once every 1000 years or so." But the risk to Earth from larger comets, around 1 kilometre wide, has not changed. Luckily such continent-busting comets, of the size seen in the movie Deep Impact, are much rarer. The risk of these large comets posing a risk to Earth is up to one in every 150 million years, depending on where the comets originate. Listen to the sound of a comet as it swings in from beyond Pluto and sunlight warms it up, causing molecules to vapourise from its surface (Sound: Paul Francis/Australian National University/mp3 file, 663.3kb) Ridiculous estimates of comets Francis says previous estimates on comet hazards were based on incorrect extrapolations from the comet reports of amateur astronomers. In 1967 a US astronomer, Edgar Everhart, calculated that the two comets a year being picked by amateur astronomers represented only 3% of the comets actually out there. Francis' suspicions about the accuracy of this estimate were roused when he used Everhart's calculations to estimate the number of comets that would be picked up by a new telescope being built at Mount Stromlo. Francis calculated the SkyMapper telescope would find 10,000 "long-period" comets a year, which he thought "seemed ridiculous". These long-period comets originate from the Oort Cloud, believed to be a vast cloud of comets orbiting the Sun far beyond Pluto, that are occasionally nudged into an orbit that threatens Earth. To investigate further he used actual comet data from the US- based Lincoln Near Earth Asteroid Research (LINEAR) Project optical telescope at White Sands in New Mexico. He found LINEAR was seeing around 17 long-period comets a year. Yet, by Everhart's calculations LINEAR should have been picking up something like 2000 long-period comets a year. Using a computer model Francis changed the comet population until predictions agreed with the data. Francis calculated that overall there were 2 trillion long- period comets in the Oort Cloud, a figure seven times lower than previous estimates using Everhart's calculations. From that Francis calculated the risk of smaller comets posing a risk to Earth, be they long-period or ones closer to Earth, known as short-period comets, was half what others think. Previously these small comets were thought to pose a risk to Earth once in about 500 years rather than once in 1000 years. Preparing for impact Although short-period comets are rarer, Francis says their path is easier to predict because they pass by Earth more frequently. And this means we could get hundreds of years notice before an impact, giving us a chance to defend ourselves. Long-period comets are "nastier" because they're "totally unpredictable", says Francis. "If we see one on a collision course we'd have at best one or two years warning, not long enough to do anything." The Tunguska fireball One of the most famous recent cases of a devastating visit from space is the huge fireball that hit the Tunguska region of Siberia in 1908. Trees within about a 14 kilometre radius were incinerated and those within a 40 kilometre radius were knocked down. Many scientists believe the fireball was caused by an exploding
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 The Grant Cameron Interview From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:10:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:10:44 -0400 Subject: The Grant Cameron Interview Source: Phenomena Magazine http://tinyurl.com/dcpc8 Thursday, September 8, 2005 The Grant Cameron Interview The Presidents and the Hard Evidence: Bodies, wreckage, machinery. A review of how the US Government has tried to tell the truth. By: Stuart Miller Phenomena News Editor You don't believe me? This isn't what happens? It's the last thing they would ever try to do? Well, don't tell that to Grant Cameron. But be careful of speaking to this man. Grant is so absorbing and interesting to talk to that with him, the "missing time" scenario comes into play. After a few minutes of conversation with him, you check your watch and find that those "few minutes" is an hour or longer. This man is indefatigable, a powerhouse of energetic enthusiasm that has driven him forward into areas of UFO research that have provided rich pickings. And as the Americans say, he's got some cahones. He's not afraid to ask questions. SM; I was very interested, because I had no idea that you'd done this, that you'd done a fair degree of research to try to get hold of classified film footage held by the military, as well as research into crashed saucers as well. GC: What I presented at the Las Vegas conference were very direct examples of how the US military has leaked pieces of footage, like the Holloman Air force base film, which "Close Encounters of the Third kind" was based on. SM: I've certainly heard of the Holloman footage, but does it actually exist? GC: Oh yes, it exists. There were two people who were involved in presenting it in 1974, who were approached by the Pentagon to do this UFO documentary for the government. That was Emenegger and Sandler who were the two producers of the film. Their story was that they had prepared the film and at the very last moment, the Pentagon pulled the Holloman footage back and they couldn't put it in the documentary. Linda Howe told me that in conversations she had with Emenegger, he told her there were 6 or 7 seconds of actual film from the footage that had been entered in to the documentary. It was going to be a public announcement about the UFO situation but in the end they had to go with a "this could happen in the future" angle. So I phoned Emenegger and said, "Linda told me this footage had been put in," and he sort of hesitated and said, "Well, I don't know". So I asked him if they'd given him footage to put in and he said, "Yes". So I asked him why they would give him such a small piece of footage? He replied, "For background". So when I was in Vegas, I got hold of the actual documentary they had made which was produced twice. Once in 1974 and again in 1979 and from the 1979 version, I pulled this 7 seconds of film and you can tell on the film as it goes through that it was actually stuck in there - it doesn't belong in there - and this was an attempt to put this out. It has always been the story that this is where "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" came from. (SM note - The Holloman Air Force base footage purports to show a UFO landing at the base by arrangement and a number of aliens disembark. They are officially met by military representatives from the base. The 7 second clip Grant refers to shows the UFO coming in to land, but nothing more). It was basically getting across the idea that there had been contact made between the US government and the aliens. There's actually two stories that they leaked, one from 1959 with Arthur Lundhal who ran the National Photographic Interpretation Centre which analysed all the U2, SR71 and the spy satellite photographs. He was involved in an incident which was the first contact they made through a channel. This woman had taught this naval intelligence guy how to contact the aliens. SM: Oh this Mrs... GC: Mrs. Swann. SM: So that was true? GC: Yes it was true. The Canadians were dealing with her as well. The FBI were dealing with her - I have the FBI documents and they're on my web site, the Navy intelligence were dealing with her, I even have indications that the White House were dealing with the story, and the CIA. SM: Grant, I have read about these attempts by the Pentagon to ease out the truth via documentaries before and that the plug has always been pulled at the last moment. You're saying in the past, and certainly in the 70s, the decision was made to reveal the truth and that they chickened out at the last moment? This is true? GC: Yes. There is a rumoured story that there was another attempt that came under Nixon and the whole importance of the attempt to release the footage in 1974 is that in 1969 the US Air Force shut down Blue Book. And at that point they were in a position that the Canadian government were also in, in shutting down their programme in the late 1960s, and that was that they never had to talk about UFOs again. So why, if you shut Blue Book down and say there's nothing to the phenomenon, nothing exists and we're not involved, do you bring in two guys into the Pentagon, film producers, and describe this project to them you'd like them to do, this UFO documentary? We know all the people who were involved, Hatch, Colonel Lane was a guy out of Kirkland AFB, Shargall who was at DAVA at Norton AFB and we have him on tape describing what was on the film. He was the guy that got the security clearance and would hand out the film. There were a number of attempts. "Close Encounters" was one, "Project UFO" a TV series was another, produced by Colonel Coleman from Blue Book, that ran for two years. This was rumoured to be one of the schemes to drag the truth out without disclosing the cover up. Walt Disney was offered footage in 1956 and it was pulled back at the last moment. Mike Malloney, a British photo journalist talks about going to Disney and being shown some footage in 1972 by a guy called Kimball. In 1980 Linda Howe was offered the Holloman film. She was working on a documentary for HBO at the time. She was contacted by Richard Dowey and people in the DIA and she was made the same offer. The Holloman clip was to go into the HBO documentary and they dragged it out and dragged it out. She didn't get the footage and in the end, they tried to get her to go to PBS as they felt they could control the Public Broadcasting better than they could HBO. Emenegger was approached again in the 80's as was Vallee and Hynek. Vallee describes it in one of his books as the dangling carrot. It happened in 1983 with a General Glen E. Miller who was the guy who got Reagan his first job in Hollywood. He goes on to become a general. Vallee and Hynek pulled the plug, figuring it was a set up. They didn't want to be involved as they had to put their reputation on the line, and that project got called off. Whitley Streiber was contacted about a number of things they wanted him to put out. One of the stories they always try to push is the story of the live alien, the fact that they has a live alien from the first crash - that's meant to be the "ET" film by Spielberg. Piles of researchers have been made these bizarre offers to get this information out. Then what happens is they go out with the story but they don't have the solid evidence to back up the story. SM: Do you offer any reasons as to why they've dangled this carrot a number of times and then pulled it back at the last moment? GC: I think what they want is the story to get out but they can't have the President stand up and say, "UFOs are real". If the President stands up and says that, within seconds there are going to be questions like, "There have been 6 million people who have been abducted, there's been 10,000 cattle that have been mutilated. What are you going to do to stop this?" And they wouldn't be able to control the situation. There's always been this rumour that there's a split within the control group (MJ12 or similar - ed). Some people want it out, some don't. What I think they are doing is basically telling us the story about what has happened, that there's been a live alien, they made contact in 1959, they met. The stuff we know today about Area 51 and MJ12 for example has been leaked to us, we didn't discover it. It was people inside that were leaking it to us. SM: Well yes but there's a great deal of controversy about the MJ12 papers. GC: OK, but the idea about MJ12 is out there now which is what they want. The researcher gets burned and what they've done is, they've gone to prominent researchers. For example Bill Moore, when he was approached with the MJ12 documents, had just produced the "Roswell Incident", the book, so he was very prominent and what they do is do two things at the same time. They take the researcher down, they discredit him and he carries the message. We've had 6 or 7 indirect confirmations that MJ12 is for real. So the concept is real. They use a document that is good enough so that the researcher falls for it. He leaks the document, he gets burned, the idea of MJ12, the control group, all that gets out and yet they maintain the cover up. They control this thing so that they don't have to get into a situation where suddenly somebody's got a body, somebody's got an actual film, someone's got something that the media are going to grab on to. And then it's out of control and it's like a snowball rolling down a hill. You get an avalanche and they can't control it. This way they can control how they release the story. SM: But Grant, if they bring the researcher down by putting out the material, the material becomes discredited and in the end... GC: But it hasn't become discredited. People are still running around talking about MJ12. The idea of a live alien has been basically believed. The best example is Area 51. The story was leaked by Bob Lazar coming out of Area 51 and he was discredited and everybody around him was discredited but the idea of Area 51, the fact that they had this high technology alien stuff is still basically believed inside the UFO community so they are forming our beliefs. When I was down in the States, I was trying to get the exact number of people who had approached Leonard Stringfield. The idea of crashed flying saucers did not exist before 1978. There was the Aztec crash in the 1950s but it wasn't believed. It wasn't until the mid 1970s that Len Stringfield was approached by, some say up to 200 to 300 people talking about dead aliens, alien autopsies and it was Len Stringfield that went in 1978 to Dayton, Ohio and made a major speech about the fact that the Americans had crashed flying saucers and alien bodies. Now it's popular, people think it always existed but before Stringfield made that speech, nobody was talking about dead aliens. They control the release. Nobody can confirm the details but the idea gets out. In the Holloman AFB film, when Enemegger was contacted about it, he was told the date was 1971 and Richard Dody, when he's offering the film to Linda Howe tells her, "No, it didn't happen in 1971, it happened in 1964." So what you'll see with all the leaks that have happened is that they'll release it with two different dates. The two researchers are fighting about who's got the right date and the story gets out. People hear it. We can't confirm or deny any of this stuff but its building our world view about what's been going on. SM: You mentioned the two Spielberg films. I gather from that that you're implying that the story about Spielberg being used as a tool is right? GC: He may not have been directly used, he may have been fed ideas from people. There are various stories. For example in "Close Encounters" in 1977 he has the aliens looking like "normal" aliens. In the "ET" film the alien looks nothing like an alien. Now one of the stories was he was told to change the alien. I also describe the cover up with Spielberg in terms of his contact with the President. For example if you check the Jimmy Carter library, you will see that there was no encounter with Spielberg. Yet the story going round is that "Close Encounters" was Carter's most favourite film. He watched it quite a few times, he had a copy, and that Spielberg had actually been at the White House and screened the movie for him. So I went to the Carter library I went looking for this. The only thing I could do was an Alpha search which is a search they do to see whether the person has ever talked or written to the President or even been in the same room as the President. They record this kind of stuff. There was no indication that Spielberg had any contact with Carter except that there was a photocopy of a picture and you can definitely see Spielberg and the President in the picture and what they do, they have the envelope over Spielberg's face which has his address on it, and they have a little letter that's written by one of the White House staff to Spielberg which says, "The President thought you might like to have this". We couldn't confirm the exact date, even though it's only a photocopy, and we checked everything. We could not confirm that photo had been taken even though we had a photo copy of it. He definitely was in contact with the President and the rumoured story was that NASA had put money into the film in exchange for Spielberg screening the movie for the President. "ET" we know for a fact was screened at the White House for Reagan and of course we have the famous story that near the end of the film, Reagan leaned over to Spielberg and said, "I bet you there are only six people in this room who know how true this whole thing is" and that's basically the story of the live alien. SM: The other important point to make about the Spielberg films of course is that the aliens are presented in a very benign manner. What are we to deduce from that? GC: Well, it depends upon "your" version of the aliens. You could say that the aliens are just sat there watching what's going on, except for the abduction thing. But if they'd wanted to take over they could have done so. It may be a true representation of what's been going on although he has basically shown it in an "entertainment" context. If you get into the cattle mutilation stuff it gets a little harder to explain. But Spielberg was asked if he was working for the government and basically he didn't deny it. His attitude was that if I'm here to acclimatise the world then great! I think he was indirectly shown how to do this. He had a very great interest in UFOs and he was a very popular guy. That seems to be what they've done. They've gone after people who are in their prime. For example Whitley Streiber, just after he wrote the book "Communion" was contacted, was told about the live alien, about MJ12, the same stories that others had been told. There's a control group, there's been contact, there's been crashes and nobody can really confirm it and yet the story keeps getting being told. Basically they control what we think in ufology. SM: I'm interested in your interpretation of this. You're saying it's a way of controlling the information in terms of their manner and approach to this in letting it come out, but on their terms. Is there is not another potential interpretation of this which is that it's a psych ops set up to destroy prominent researchers, to knock them down. How would you answer that? GC: That's part of it but the incident in 1973 did not fit in to that scenario. In 1969 they shut down Blue book and they never had to talk about UFOs again. Robert Emenegger was a total sceptic on UFOs. They came to him and approached him and wanted him to do stuff about advanced weapons and so on. He got a letter from Nixon. It was a thank you letter. Linda Howe says she saw the letter. I went to the Nixon archives and the archives don't have it. But there was no reason in 1973 for them to do this. They didn't have to burn Emenegger, he'd never done anything with UFOs. He talked about the fact that they were covering stuff up. For example when he to the Pentagon when they were approving the script, they didn't even have to sign in. They just walked right in. They didn't want anything documented that these guys had been involved in anything. He talks about the money. The Macarthur foundation put up a lot of the money for PBS. They didn't want any credit. They're not credited in the documentary. He was offered other film as well which was later withdrawn. It was at Vandenburg Air force base where there had been this launch of a missile and these two UFOs were tracking it. Why give out this stuff if you don't need to? It comes back to this split within the control group where some want the story out and others don't. So they've gone with this half way thing where they'll release the story and people are becoming acclimatised and yet they can control the cover up. I think it's very dangerous if they release the fact that this thing is real. Then you get all the scenarios of the stock market crashing and so on - things they can't control. This way it's controlled and yet people aren't totally ignorant of what's going on. SM: Why have things in that direction then been quiet now for over 20 years? GC: Oh they're still releasing stuff. Take a look at the Majestic documents. Over 3,500 pages of documents have been released through this guy Cooper. I would say the vast majority of them have been changed, they're not the original documents, they're fakes but if you check the names a lot of the names do fit and a lot of the stuff in these documents are coming from original stuff. They're very carefully worked documents. With that much material, you're not just talking about one person or one little organisation hoaxing this. You're getting something like the NSA doing this. Again, you can't confirm the documents are real, the vast majority are probably faked but there is a lot of stuff in there that is right. Its correct for the time period, little things on the bottom of papers that has never been released which we know what it stands for, we've confirmed people's signatures and so on. This stuff is still coming out, not as much as before and not very dramatic stuff but people are still being approached with various stories. There's this latest story about this guy coming out of Area 51 talking about EB1, 2 and 3. SM: Dan Buruisch? GC: Yes. Again its one of these stories whether you don't know whether to believe the guy or not. But the material is coming out and forming the idea that there is still a live alien at Area 51. There was a book written, "Hollywood versus the aliens", get a hold of it, 600 pages long and it's a description that talks about how they've used Hollywood to bring out various alien ideas. It's written by Bruce Rux. It's an excellent book. He goes through the different people who ran Science fiction TV shows and how the guy that wrote some of them was from the CIA. They've had this influence inside the media. They've done it this way because once you start confirming that flying saucers exist, it's then out of your control. SM: I'm playing devils advocate here Grant and putting the sceptical argument which is that it's a psych ops operation for one reason or another. GC: OK, if UFOs don't exist, why would you want people to believe that they do? SM: Well, you say that after Blue Book was shut, that let the American government off the hook and they never had to talk about them again. But UFOs never went away. People kept seeing them and they were still a very popular topic within the culture and entertainment and so on. They wouldn't go away. GC: But they didn't go away in Canada either and you would never know there were UFOs according to the Canadian government. And they don't come into the UFO community and leak us stories and give us material. The American way of handling this thing has been completely different and I just think the Canadians have handed it off to the Americans. Why would the Canadians not do the same thing? Why do they just stay out of it? Other than what's happened in the United States, if you look at what happened in Canada you would come to the conclusion there are no UFOs. SM: Well one argument that could be put as to why they keep stoking up the UFO situation is that if people believe there are UFOs and see strange lights in the sky, that distracts from the fact that it might be a secret project that they don't want people to talk about or notice for the moment. GC: That's one of the stories that they brought out in 1997; that it was alien technology, but I always say that if the Americans have alien technology then why can't they catch Bin Laden? I don't think they have. SM: Not necessarily alien technology. GC: OK then advanced technology, whether it's alien or not, why would you still need runways? I don't think they've had this technology at any time. I was lecturing at Salt Lake City recently and the people there are into the Dugway Proving grounds and the fact that Area 51 has been moved to this air force base in Utah. It's got a 3 mile long runway and it's twice as wide as a normal runway. This still sounds like planes though. A lot of people for example say that the abduction phenomenon is Black Ops - the American government messing around with people's minds. This is total nonsense. You'd have to have millions of people working on this thing and there's no indication that there's ever been a leak on this stuff. It doesn't make sense. Why would you want to mess around with your own people? It's like they have no psychological authority or ability to deal with anything in the world and yet when it comes to UFOs, the Americans have this super advanced psych ops operation going on that they can make people think anything they want. I don't think they have it because if they did, they would have used it in the Middle East. SM: Well this might be straying off the subject a little but in what context would you put flying triangles? GC: I saw one in 1976, up close, right above me. It gets pretty complex. If you take a look in ufology, you conclude the aliens are part of the cover up. If they=92d wanted to announce themselves they could have landed in 20 different cities at one time and announced themselves. If you take a look all the way through history, and I=92ve always said there=92s been patterns and no one=91s seen them, in the 1950s there were no grey aliens. Mrs. Swann was the last of the contactees. In the 40s you didn=92t have any aliens at all, just a bunch of things flying around. Then they meet people and talk to them and take them for rides in space ships. Then in 1961 Betty Hill is abducted and suddenly the Greys come. You have these patterns where the aliens are changing the scenario. It=92s like screen memories. For example, take a look at landing traces. They used to be one of the biggest things. If you talk to Ted Phillips who categorised most of these traces, he will tell you they almost do not exist anymore. You don=92t have craft that land and leave pod or burn marks. There are patterns and the triangles may simply be the next part of the pattern. They=92ve moved from one scenario to another. The crop circles may be a pattern, it=92s a shift, a whole new scenario. In the 70s, aliens would be seen walking around picking up rocks or leaves. Stories like that were dominant. It doesn=92t happen anymore. SM: Why are they changing it? What are they up to? GC: You don=92t know until you discover what the final scenario of what they=92re up to is. We don=92t know what they=92re really trying to do. But I would say there are patterns. Look at the 1890s reports of guys on ropes on things that look like dirigibles with little propellers on them - those were UFO reports. We see what they want us to see and triangles are the new part of the pattern. It=92ll change to something else as we go along. In relation to the Mrs. Swann incident, I have a document on my web site from Jacque Vallee. He has held this document since 1964. Lundhall from the CIA admits that he wrote the document. It was to Robert Emenegger in the 70=92s. He confirmed that this UFO had flown by the window of this top secret CIA building and the personnel had seen the whole thing. He wouldn=92t go on camera to talk about it. The document about the Swann incident is not the original. There=92s always this fallback. This is how the story came out. Vallee and Hynek were in Robert Friend=92s office. Friend had run Blue Book. This document was 11 pages long and Hynek sees this document on Friend=92s desk. He realises that it=92s a significant document and so he hand copies it, so its hand written. He gives it to Vallee. Vallee hangs on to the document. I get the vast majority of the Swann story, I release it. Someone inside NIDs convinces Vallee to allow me to put the document on my web site. But again, its like the MJ12 documents, I have the document, I have no doubt it=92s the original hand written document - a copy but I can=92t prove it, because I have a second copy. That=92s the way they work it. Why release this story? That the CIA had this woman in Maine that taught this navy intelligence guy how to channel this alien who was running around the earth? Why put this story out? The US air force said Blue book was the worst public relations event they=92d had. They were dying for it to end so they wouldn=92t have to put someone up before a press conference every day. They never had to talk about UFOs again and suddenly stories are coming out about channelling aliens. They took a chance. They didn=92t know what would happen when the documentary was released. There could have been a real backlash, with people demanding the actual film. It worked in their favour that people accepted it and it started to build a world view that they wanted. But it could have gone wrong. Emenegger could have produced his Nixon letter showing his involvement in it. Here=92s a list of the people involved, other high ranking people and he could have blown the whole thing open. Everyone kept quiet and it=92s not until 30 years later that the story comes out. People ask me about disclosure but I think it=92s a long way away. 50 years away. I=92m doing a paper now on why they won=92t disclose. 64 reasons why. Some are very obvious. There are so many scenarios that they=92re afraid of happening. Like free energy for China where they=92ve got 50 cent an hour labour. There=92s all sorts of things that scare the living daylights out of them. And yet there are people inside the group who want this thing released - they don=92t want people ignorant and they=92re forcing the story out. SM: Something jumped out at me when you were talking about the chronological break down of this. Maybe I misunderstood but it was as if you=92d discounted Roswell. GC: No, I haven=92t discounted Roswell. How did you figure that? SM: Well, you said there were no alien bodies until the 70s. GC: Well the Roswell story was totally unknown until Bill Moore and Friedman. SM: Well let me backtrack here. Do you believe Roswell happened? GC: Yes, it happened and there was a live alien involved. But if you asked somebody about Roswell in 1977, they would look at you as if they didn=92t know what you were talking about. Moore brings it out and they go after him. Moore was a very smart guy. Very sharp and he knew what he was doing. That=92s why they burn people. They don=92t want any researcher to get too well know, respected. If that happens, the chances are the media are going to start believing the guy. If that happens then they start losing it so they have to take down anyone that becomes too prominent. Lear and Lazaar are another example of dragging people down. Hynek and Vallee backed out. They got away. Roswell was one of the few things we discovered. Everything else basically has been fed to us by the intelligence community. I was approached. I co-wrote a book on a fellow by the name of Dr. Eric Walker who was a former president of Kent State University. After we=92d finished, we were approached about the MJ12 documents by somebody inside the DIA who was willing to help us look for MJ12. I said to my co-author, =93You tell him we don=92t need any help and by the way, why are you breaking national security to come to us?=94 They=92re never there to help you. They=92re there to use you. Then the thing is, what are they trying to do? SM: Do you believe in that Eisenhower dentist story? GC: I worked on it, Bill Moore worked on it. I was at the Eisenhower library for a week working on it. I can confirm he didn=92t go to the dentist. Bill Moore did the interview and I think it=92s true his wife had no recollection. I checked that there as no indication that the dentist had been involved, there was no Christmas card to the dentist and the thing that most people missed was when the press release came out - Haggerty was the press secretary - when he came out with the dentist story he got the name wrong. If you check the actual record, they got the wrong name for the dentist. So I think something did happen but again, it=92s like trying to confirm what actually happened. Some people say he went by helicopter but the official record says that he didn=92t fly in a helicopter till =9257. They had concerns about the President in a helicopter. So the dentist story is not true but what I=92ve always tried to figure out is how did the media know the President was gone? I talked to Steven Lovekin who was this general who had worked for the President and he told me that Eisenhower would talk about UFOs at Camp David and he mentioned about Mount Weber and the Presidential bunker where he would go if there was a nuclear attack. It was also the place where a lot of the stuff is kept, where they track UFOs, where a lot of the stuff may be actually controlled from. You can=92t get it with an FOIA, you can=92t get it with anything because it=92s where the government would take over if there was a nuclear attack. It=92s apparently where the MJ12 may operate out of. But most of it you really can=92t confirm one way or the other. SM: It=92s alleged that Nixon was the last President to be briefed although there=92s strong evidence to suggest that Reagan knew what was going on. Do you believe that every President is briefed? GC: Yes. Johnson definitely knew, he was involved in Kecksburg, Nixon definitely because he was involved in this release thing. He was the guy that sold it off to private interest. Once they shut Blue Book down they moved it outside the government so you couldn=92t get at it and they moved it to private interest. Ford? I have a friend who helped me out. He talked to Ford who confirmed he was briefed and he was shown the Holloman air force base film, that=92s part of the Presidential briefing. Jimmy Carter was briefed, he forced a briefing out. There was McGeorge who was a secret service agent, who said he was at Carter=92s briefing. A lot of people like Puthoff, who was very interested in the story, said he didn=92t really know whether McGeorge was telling the truth but interestingly, when he tells the story, he also says that President Carter was shown the 15 minute Holloman AFB film as apart of the UFO briefing. So if he wasn=92t at the briefing, how did he know about the film? A friend helped me out with a contact who phoned George Bush senior. He said he was briefed as CIA director and shown the Holloman film as part of the briefing. SM: What about this Carter/Bush thing when Bush was head of the CIA and allegedly Carter asked to be briefed and was told by Bush senior, no, he couldn=92t be, he didn=92t have a need to know. GC: The story is sort of messed up. The story was told by Danny Sheehan and I talked to Danny and I said to him, =93This story, you=92ve got the timing wrong.=94 Bush was never CIA director under Jimmy Carter. He resigned two months before the President came in. This incident occurred when Jimmy Carter was President elect. He asked for those files when he was President elect, when he got his intelligence briefing from the former director. Bush was director under Ford. Carter ended up with two reports. Danny Sheehan said that the reports said that there were between 2 and 6 extraterrestrial races and that 5% to 6% of all UFO sightings are from these races. Sheehan says he saw the reports that went to the President. We know who wrote them, she=92s still in Government, we can=92t get her to talk about this. Somebody in Congress said they would force these reports out but they couldn=92t force them out. But Carter had to fight for it. He was a democrat, they didn=92t trust him, he was from the south and they had no respect for people from the south, but he did get it out. Shirley McClaine who was friend of Carter=92s said he tried to release the information but he couldn=92t. He wanted the answer out, he wanted to see how people would react, but he couldn=92t because it affected national security. The only one I don=92t think was briefed was President Clinton. I think he was the only one that was basically cut out of the loop. And yet it doesn=92t make any sense constitutionally, that the President wouldn=92t know. I talk about a lot of stories in my paper about Hilary Clinton going to a lot of people and how the President had people look at it on his behalf but there was no indication that he was officially briefed. Rockefeller briefed him but that was a private briefing and it really doesn=92t count. SM: Didn=92t Hilary Clinton turn round to Rockefeller and say, =93Please don=92t bring the subject up again=94 GC: Exactly, which would indicate they knew that this was a bomb, that=92s the whole thing. The President can=92t come out and confirm it because they would lose control. =93We have give you our time, we=92re very interested in it, but don=92t ever bring it up again. We have enough scandals, we have enough problems, we don=92t need this.=94 I asked Dick Cheney on the phone. I say to people that the only way you=92re going to find out the truth of the thing is that you=92ve got to get a high ranking official who=92s been briefed. I mean that someone=92s walked in to his office, he=92s signed for a briefing, and the briefing tells you the truth of what=92s actually going on. So I asked Dick Cheney, =93In all your jobs in government, have you ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs? If so, when was it and what were you told?=94 And he said, =93If I=92d been briefed on that subject, I=92m sure it would have been classified and I wouldn=92t be talking about it. =93 We=92ve got it on tape. That to me is the way to get the answers. I=92ve almost got the President on the phone a couple of times. SM: How do you manage, Grant, to get to these important people? GC: There=92s one radio talk show that a lot of them appear on in Washington DC. Jimmy Carter is always writing books. I asked him the briefing question on a show and I guess they showed him the question first and he wouldn=92t take it. I had a line to Clinton when his book came out but then I lost it. It=92s very hard to get to them but at odd times they will appear on talk shows and that=92s what you=92ve got to do, get on the phone and get a line and ask the question and hope he stumbles on it. It=92s a matter of time but we=92ll get somebody on the record. None of them have denied it or said there=92s nothing to it. They all try to talk around the question.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Flying Saucers - 50 Years Later From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:26:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:26:42 -0400 Subject: Flying Saucers - 50 Years Later Source: Trafford Publishing - Victoria, British Columbia, Canada http://www.trafford.com/robots/02-0108.html 07 September 2005 Flying Saucers - 50 Years Later by C. A. Honey About the Book In the opinion of C. A. Honey, a disinformation program that includes utilizing hypnosis, is being used by certain government agencies to add confusion and nonsense to serious UFO studies, thus masking the true facts about the actual nature and reality of UFOs and their occupants. That is why the scientific approach of C.A. Honey is so important so as to separate the truth from nonsense. Over 25 years ago, C. A. Honey regressed people who had encounters like the ones being talked about by contactees and abductees today. About 95% of these claims, then as today, are fraudulent. His lecturers document the truth behind UFO reality and why it was denied and kept secret by governments all over the world. Because of its nature, he agreed with the reason behind the secrecy, and now, after all these years, decided to once again surface with the answers for those ready to receive them. Here are some of the unarguable facts presented in his books - the term "unarguable" is used in the sense that no intelligent argument can be presented against the statements.) You can choose to ignore or simply choose not to believe, but the statements cannot be refuted by reasonable or intelligent argument. * UFOs, Cigar shaped, disk shaped, or otherwise, do not come to the vicinity of Earth from other star systems. * Mankind did not originate on Earth through normal evolution from anthropoid ancestors. * Human origin is known and fully documented in ancient history pre-dating biblical writings. * All religions of the world are manmade and their sacred writings are in most cases reasonably accurate history. * United States officials as well as those of major foreign countries will never release information known to them about the actual origin of UFOs and their occupants. The articles and books by C.A. Honey will do just that, then you will agree they can never release the true facts due to its nature. * Space travelers, on occasion, live or walk among us and cannot be detected unless they so desire. They impart authentic information to the human race as part of their overall plan for humanity. * Contrary to ideas put forth by the wacko religious cults, flying saucers are NOT led by SATAN and piloted by demons. Part of the deliberate fraud that is designed to keep the truth hidden from all those who could not possibly accept it at this time, is the idea that some of these beings from space resemble the "mantis or insect" profile. All people coming here to the Earth are human in appearance, with their manufactured android servants in humanoid form. * One of the biggest mistakes made today is the acceptance of all the stories by self-proclaimed psychics that only add more confusion to what is the truth about interplanetary visitors. About the Author C.A. Honey is a researcher who was very well known in Ufology 30 to 40 years ago! His lectures sharing why he has remained out of the picture all this time, cover such topics as: His personal investigation of "contactees" in the late fifties and early sixties. Documented proof of the origin of the space travelers. The origin of the human race. Why no missing link exists. Who were the builders of Tiahuanaco, Machu Picchu, Baalbek Terraces and the like? After years of lecturing on things such as these, without proof, concrete proof finally exists today. C.A. Honey was in Electronic Design with Hughes Aircraft for over 26 years, now retired. He held a Secret Clearance with the government for over 25 years, many of those years working on space related programs. He was with George Adamski on one of his contact claims and has had his own experiences over the years. C.A. Honey published a UFO oriented newsletter for several years that went all over the world, appearing in 13 different countries and 7 languages. For many years he was a ghostwriter of George Adamski's publications including his book Flying Saucers Farewell, and a host of articles and pamphlets. In the mid-sixties he published his own book entitled THE ORIGIN OF THE WORLDS RELIGIONS, and recently his new books THE UFO SITUATION TODAY, THE GREAT UFO DECEPTION, and in 2002 FLYING SAUCERS - 50 YEAR LATER. His books reveal why the government will never reveal the truth about UFOs, and is an expose` of the group of people behind the necessity for official secrecy. C.A. Honey was the first in the state of California to receive teacher's credentials to teach and train hypnotists. He founded an operated the first school approved by the California State Board of Education in California where he taught hypnotism theory and trained hypnotists. He wrote the first course approved for training hypnotists in California, training doctors and laymen alike. Many Hypnosis Centers still use his course
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 UFODATA News From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:17:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:32:41 -0400 Subject: UFODATA News Dear friends. UFODATA are pleased to announce that their on-line electronic bookstore opened for business at 12 noon Thursday 1st September. http://www.ufodata.co.uk/ebook.htm Titles are been added on a regular basis and you can choose to download direct to your computer or order a CD-Rom version of the book for delivery via the mail. We are specialising in The UFO and Paranormal areas and are sure that there will be something for everyone. Our featured title is a recent release from Paul Stonehill & our own Philip Mantle 'UFO USSR'. It is a 400 page plus encyclopaedic collection of accounts,reports and images collected from across the former Soviet Union. Review: E-BOOK REVIEW =96 UFO-USSR by Paul Stonehill & Philip Mantle By Ruth Gardner Throughout the centuries UFOs hovered over Russia, and USOs (Unidentified Undersea Objects) lurked in its waters. This e- book introduces the phenomena of the most important cases, observations, and sightings. 'UFO-USSR' endeavours to describe efforts of those dedicated researchers who have stubbornly pursued UFO research in the Russian Empire, the USSR, and modern Russia. The evidence in this piece of literature is extensive both in scope and detail. In its totality, it comprises a body of evidence written in the style of a Russian, which at the very least supports the general assessment of describing as fully as possible Soviet and Russian UFO cases, research areas, prominent personalities involved in such research (military, intelligence agencies, and civilians), opinions and viewpoints of those who were and are serious in their approach to the study of anomalous phenomena. Whatever the UFO phenomena is, it is certainly not a modern invention as this unique history clearly demonstrates. The history of UFO sightings and contacts over the lands that later became known as Russia date back thousands of years. 'UFO-USSR' is not meant to be definitive in any way, but is meant to show that UFO research has been and still is very active in the former USSR, and that a vigorous programme of research and serious diplomatic initiatives is warranted. The sheer scale of the authors' vision is breathtaking and I would challenge any non-believer to remain sceptic and walk away unchanged after absorbing the facts of decades in duration, and global in nature of there being too many hard sensor data-points and millions of eyewitnesses to ignore the evidence. This e-book has been published in the hope that the research and investigations will enable greater co-operation between East and West in what some have called 'The Greatest Mystery Known to Mankind'. Written by Paul Stonehill and Philip Mantle, currently 'UFO- USSR' is available as an e-book from:www.ufodata.co.uk ----- There are still some tickets available for the Great British UFO Show to be held in Leeds on 1st October, to avoid disappointment we suggest you order yours now. Details on the website: http://www.ufodata.co.uk/conf.htm Coming Soon. If you prefer to be alerted to new stories and new titles appearing in the bookstore you will be able to register on-line and receive an automatic notification of any updates to the site via your in box, the system will be launching soon. That's all for this update. We hope to meet you at The Great British UFO Show in October. Regards
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:36:52 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:20:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Randle >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 06:39:09 -1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:39:00 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 <snip> >>>My communications here on UFO UpDates with other researchers >>>here has been very helpful since I've quickly learned what >>>standards and methods they use and can refine my own in >>>response. I don't claim to have certainty when it comes to >>>answers about the UFO phenomenon but am confident that my >>>research method is more appropriate than what is used by many of >>>the veteran researchers. I think the way in which veteran UFO >>>researchers routinely dismiss whistleblower and contactee data >>>is major impediment to better understanding the UFO phenomenon. >>>The general public are seeking answers to the ETH that the >>>present "scientifically rigorous method" of UFO research fails >>>to address. This is why UFO research is at a cross roads and >>>alternative ways of conceptualizing this phenomenon such as >>>Exopolitics are becoming more popular. >Dr. Salla, List, All >>See, here is the problem in a nutshell. Dr. Salla believes that >>>we veteran UFO researchers routinely dismiss the alleged >>whistle-blower and contactee data... and implies that we >>haven't bothered with investigation. But there are reasons for >>our dismissing of these testimonies. >>For example, I actually saw George van Tassel when he came to >>Denver in the mid-1960s. He was talking about life on Mars, as >>in intelligent life that was spreading across the surface at >>that time - not the theoretical construct that has been adopted >>with the Face on Mars controversy. He, of course, never said >>anything directly against George Adamski, other than you >>couldn't trust anything those Venusians said. Of course we now >>know that Venus is much too hot to support life, unless, of >>course, we want to reject the now accepted science. >>The contactees, whether Van Tassel or Adamski, or Dan Fry, or a >>platoon of others, were never able to offer any sort of >>independent evidence that their tales of travel through the >>Solar System were true - they never got to take pictures, never >>managed to grab an artifact, never learned anything that was new >>and different to our science. >An excellent article on many of these contactees was written by >Bill Hamilton: >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/et031.html >>From what I have seen, Bill Hamilton has had the longest track >>record in analysing these contact cases and certainly doesn't >>dismiss all their testimonies as 'tall tales' is clear in the >>article. No, he just jumps in the middle suggesting that he too is a contactee. >As for the various stories about cities on Venus, Mars, the >Moon, etc., there is much that science seems to contradict. >However, there is the very valid concern that the data is being >systematically withheld from the scientific community as >researchers such as Richard Hoagland contend for the Mars data. >I don't think we should jump to conclusions based on what >science tells us about what a contactee claims when there is >what appears to me very valid claims that scientific data >confirming the ETH is withheld. This is something we need to >seriously consider since "Cosmic Watergate" as Stan Friedman and >others put it is very real and pervasive. It would be very hard >to maintain a "Cosmic Watergate" if data wasn't withheld from >the scientific community. Let's see some evidence that these data are being systematically withheld from the scientific community. Here I refer the astronomical data rather than the evidence that we can produce showing that the information flow between the government (in most cases the Air Force) and the public has been restricted. >>Not once did any of them suggest >>that the Solar System extended out beyond Pluto into the Kuiper >>Belt or the Oort Cloud, that objects larger than Pluto would be >>found out there, causing our scientists to argue about the >>definition of a planet. Not once did any of the contactees, who >>claimed cordial relations with these space brother offer >>anything that would be useful to our science or our planet, >>other than the sort of thing you might read in science fiction. >>Their predictions never came true and it has been demonstrated, >>time and again that the contactees were making it up. >>But, of course, none of we 'veteran UFO researchers' have taken >>the time to investigate these claims. We just dismiss them out >>of hand. >Your method is questionable. Your approach to assessing the >testimony of contactees or whistleblowers is to raise questions >that often appear to me to be distractions from the central >claims of these contactees/whistleblowers. Why is it important >for them to discuss the Kuiper Belt or what is out there in the >Oort Cloud if they are talking about underground life on Mars, >the Moon, Ganymede, etc? Sorry you missed the point. I was suggesting that the contactees, who traveled the Solar System and had long interactions with the benevolent space brothers never supplied any suggestion about the wonders we would see as we began to venture out. I would think that someone would have mentioned that Saturn wasn't the only ringed planet, that the outer planets had dozens of moons, or that there were planet-sized objects out beyond Pluto. They never hinted about any of these wonders, which should have been obvious to them. This would be soft evidence of the reality of their tales. They could say, "Well, I told you there were rings around Jupiter and now you see there actually are." I think here of the Betty Hill star map. To me not a very impressive bit of evidence, but one that suggests a knowledge beyond the end of the Solar System. Others on this list are quite impressed with it. But the point is, here is one of those bits of soft evidence that is interesting. >You and most other veteran UFO researchers dismiss the contactee >or whistleblower testimonies since you demand the 'hard >evidence' to substantiate their claims. When I or others respond >that the hard evidence in terms of documents, material, photos, >independent witness testimonies, etc., is in many cases >withdrawn or manipulated by those responsible for 'Cosmic >Watergate', we are accused of being gullible and believing any >tall story thrown our way. The problem as I've consistenly said >is that the 'hard evidence' is removed which means we need to >consider 'soft evidence' such as whistleblower integrity, >consistency, coherence, etc., as well as assess any available >hard evidence. Are there those out there wanting to discredit >UFO research through disinformation, lies, etc., yes, I would >have to agree. That means we have a problem and that requires a >nuanced methodology that doesn't throw the baby out with the >bathwater. And I'm saying that it is impossible to remove all this evidence, no matter how diligently you try. I have tried to make the case that even if the government removed my records, I could still document the claims because I have copies. If, for some reason, the University of Iowa said that I held no undergraduate degree from there, I could not only produce a copy of the diploma, but I could produce the various grade reports from each of the semesters, some of the cancelled checks for tuition, class notes, test results, in fact, a wide range of documents that would establish that something was wrong here. With many of the whistleblowers, they fall back on the position that "my records have been altered" but offer nothing except their claim. So, once the whistleblower has been caught in a series of lies, it certainly falls upon him to prove his case, not upon me to disprove it. If that methodology is in error, then there is something wrong with the system. They provide information and we all attempt to verify it. When verification fails, and they offer nothing other than "my records were altered", I tend to disbelieve them. >"Cosmic Watergate" is very real and I'm glad that some >researchers such as Stan Friedman have been able to substantiate >it with their research on Roswell and analyses of the Majestic >Documents. I just finished Stan's book, Top Secret/Majestic and >certainly agree with his conclusions in contrast to your own >concerning the validity of some of the Majestic Documents and >the existence of Cosmic Watergate. >>And now we come to the whistleblowers. I'll deal with Cliff >>Stone here simply because I have known him for fifteen years, >>been to his house in Roswell and watched his tale expand from >>that of an informed (meaning that he knew a lot about UFOs) >>researcher to that of a participant in the cover-up with the >>sort of inside knowledge that would make anyone happy. >>I have mentioned on this list, a number of times, the games that >>Stone played the very first day I met him and what these games >>told me about his character. I listened to his tales of people >>coming in the night to drag him from his home, take him to >>secret, dark locations and subject him to grueling >>interrogations. Of course, he had no good explanation for why >>this was happening, other than he was interested in UFOs and >>they were quizzing him about what he might know. They warned him >>against revealing information, but he ignored those warnings >>(until recently when we asked pointed and specific questions) >>and was told that he might be killed. He never explained why >>these people took him out to warn him rather than just shoot him >>in the head and be done with it. >>Of course, back then he wasn't claiming to be an insider who was >>privy to every important UFO secret from the Kecksburg UFO crash >>to the alien autopsy film that he saw in 1969. He said that he >>saw the Kecksburg object trucked away until challenged and >>changed the story to he just knew about it. He saw the alien >>autopsy film from inside the building where the obviously >>classified breifing was being shown to others - a really >>ridiculous scenario. >>So, yes, I met with him, interviewed him, credited him with his >>research because I could verify that, but then his tales took on >>a new life placing him in the middle of every important UFO >>event in the last fifty years and that was just too much. >>I have also mentioned his tales of crawling through the wire at >>the base camps in Vietnam to engage the enemy - but such tales >>of clandestine and unauthorized missions are universally >>rejected because none of them have ever been proven to be true. >>Single soldiers did not crawl off into the jungle to engage in >>personal combat with the enemy. >I doubt you have all the answers as to what is possible or not >in a combat situation. War is a situation that brings out some >very unusual qualities, it is possible that the same qualities >that made Stone suitable for a UFO crash retrieval program made >him perform unusual feats that he describes. You overook that >possibility. I didn't say I had all the answers about what is possible in a combat situation, but I do know many things. I was actually the commander (well, that's a little overblown, I was the Officer in Charge, OIC) of one section of the Cu Chi bunker line on several occasions. It was an additional duty that rotated among the junior officers in our unit. And once I moved to Tay Ninh, I actually was in charge of the overall base camp defense (don't misunderstand, when something important happened, there were all kinds of infantry colonels ready to take over) on two occasions. So, I have an intimate knowledge of how these things worked, and if we'd seen someone crawling around in the wire, and there was no authorization for it, we would have lit him up like a Christmas tree. So, I say, no, it is not possible that Stone went crawling out, through the wire to engage the VC and NVA on a one man basis. I'll even go further because I'm sure that you'll find someone else who makes similar claims, that both of them are not being honest. This sort of thing didn't happen. If Stone claims otherwise, then I become suspicious of everything that he says because it demonstrates a proclivity to invention of tales of derring-do. I might suggest you read Stolen Valor which provides the stories of dozens of alleged Vietnam veterans who tell similar tales of sneaking through the wire to engage in personal wars with the bad guys - and you'll find that there is no evidence for it. Yes, I know that Stone served in Vietnam. His record is quite clear on that point - and that he served as a clerk. >>Yes, I understand that we can say all these things, that Stan >>can offer the evidence that Bob Lazar is not who he claims to be >>and that his record does not balance with the facts, but there >>are those who wish to believe so badly that they are willing to >>ignore the flaws in these wild tales so that they can believe. >>They will over- look the inconsistencies and the lack of any >>evidence, giving the government the power to literally wipe out >>all the evidence. Yet, when it comes time to put up, they offer >>excuses. Stone just won't tell us about the new Moon Dust >>because he fears for his family. Why now and not ten years ago >>when he began shooting off his mouth? >Why do you assume that "I wish to believe so badly" that my >critical faculties go out the window when analysing the >testimonies of Lazar, Stone, etc and flaws in their testimonies? >You tend to focus on "minor" inconsistencies in their >testimonies while I tend to focus on the consistencies between >what the whistleblower claims and the avialable data and the >testimony of other whistleblowers. There is a cross comparison >that can be used to analyse the whistleblower data that is quite >extensive now. My methodological approach is distinct to your >own and certainly doesn't make me a default "believer". Being >"open" to whistleblower testimonies is appropriate for a >researcher still grappling with data that is imcomplete, >withdrawn, and possibly manipulated. These inconsistencies are not minor, but important distortions that suggest something about the veracity of the whistleblowers. Once the red flags are raised, we are required to take additional looks at the information supplied. We should not attempt to turn the discussion into something else. >Furthermore, I came into this field of UFO research/exopolitics >since I was looking for answers to what drives international >conflict. The answers I've discovered so far in terms of a >Cosmic Watergate that is global and pervasive gives me a >conceptual framework for understanding international conflict >and how data is manipulated. That has nothing to do with my need >to believe, and has everything to do with my need to understand >the available data and the testimony of whistleblowers. >You along with Stan gloss over the data which is inconsistent >with your own conclusions that Lazar and Stone are liars. There >are those who are competent field researchers who have >interviewed and analysed Lazar and Stone and find them to be >credible. So what we have here are inconsistent research >findings between researchers. As to what is the truth, I think >being open to what a whistleblower claims despite the >inconclusivity of the data is an important requirement to >understanding and unraveling the Cosmic Watergate. You may not >be satisified with that since you don't accept the initial >premise of a Cosmic Watergate and focus on the absence of >evidence. I understand your approach which is quite logical if >you reject the premise of a Cosmic Watergate. You tend to ignore everything that fails to fit your picture of the UFO world. Instead of confronting the problems, you tend to apologize for them and spin them until you seem convinced that we all are wrong and you are right. You simply label them as minor inconsistencies when they are, in fact, indications of veracity. >>But please, don't say that we routinely dismiss these claims >>because that simply is not true. We all have looked at them in >>the past. A lot of time and effort has been expended in checking >>them out. Philip Corso added nothing to our knowledge of the >>Roswell case. He gave us no evidence, couldn't tell us where to >>look for the secret documents, had huge holes in his story that >>should have told any rational investigator that Corso was less >>than honest, and yet, here we are, still arguing the merits (and >>I use that word advisedly) of his tales. Nevermind that he >>couldn't even get some of the basic facts right or that he >>believed Frank Kaufmann who has been proven to be another of the >>frauds. >You say Corso was "less than honest" but as I've shown in my >recent debate with Brad Sparks, there are a number of historical >documents that support Corso's claim that he was a staffer >assigned to the NSC by virture of his membership of the >Operations Coordinating Board (OCB). Brad Sparks tells us that >the 1965 FBI report which clearly identified Corso's service on >the OCB NSC was based on what the FBI were told by Corso's boss >Lt Gen Trudeau, and that Trudeau was not an expect on the NSC >and wrongly assumed that the OCB was part of the NSC. So >basically Trudea was wrong to start with, and the FBI was wrong >to simply accept Trudeau's description of Corso's employment >with the OCB in the NSC. This kind of convuluted historical >revisionism by Sparks is accepted by yourself and other UFO >researchers as proof that Corso lied. Hmm, and I'm the one >accused of being soft headed. But you see, even if we grant the point and suggest that Corso's incorrect claim he was a member of the NSC, while inaccurate, is more of an embellishment that an outright lie, there are so many other problems. Corso said that he commanded the White Sands Missile Range but clearly did not. He asked Strom Thurmond to write a foreword for a different book and then used it in his Roswell book. Thurmond was so outraged that he demanded the foreword be taken out of future editions of the book. Corso's tale of how he saw the alien body in route to Wright Field is ridiculous on the face of it and contradicts nearly everything anyone else has said but does provide Corso with a way to see the aliens in 1947. So, it really isn't all about Corso's claim to be on the NSC, but about everything else he said that was in conflict was so much that is known. >As for Frank Kaufman, I don't see why Corso is somehow >compromised by whether Kaufman was a fraud or not. Corso never >claimed to have been at Roswell, he only claims to have seen the >EBE being shipped from RAAF to Dayton Ohio. Kaufman may have >taken Corso in like many others concerning his claims of being >present at Roswell. Corso was very old and sick when he came >forward to tell his story and may not have been discerning >enough with those around him and what he was told. Based on my >own research on Corso, he stuck closely to his story and put his >reputation on the line in coming forward. Given his credentials >he deserves a fair hearing. Because, if Corso was who he said he was, he would have known that Kaufmann was spinning tales. In fact, throughout Corso's book there is a real lack of insight into the UFO phenomenon. He seems to have no ability to discriminate between the factual and the fictional, using it all to strengthen his point, yet that merely weakens it. If he was who he claimed to be, he should have had a better understanding of UFOs. That he did not seems to be soft evidence that he was not an insider but outsider who found a way to interject himself into the field. >>So we might not agree with you, and some of us have been around >>this field a lot longer, but we have looked at all these people >>and we find their tales wanting because of the lack of evidence, >>lack of corroboration and because they have been caught spinning >>other wild tales. It is not a routine dismissal, it is a >>rejection because of the lack of evidence. >I have regularly cited field investigators such as Wendelle >Stevens, Paola Harris, Bill Hamilton, who have been in the field >for several decades who conclude that there is substance to many >contactee and whistleblower claims, and these testimonies are >sufficiently credible to warrant further investigation or >exopolitical analysis. I have yet to find a competent UFO >researcher who advocates a particular whistleblower or contactee >case without presenting some evidence in support. The dispute is >over what evidence is admissable or substantiated and that is a >fair debate to have given the different premises with which >researchers operate. The difference here is that you cite field investigations by others and I claim field investigations I have conducted. And yes, I read Hamilton's contactee treatise and found an overwhelming lack of any sort to tangible evidence in it. And I probably shouldn't mention that you cite a child molester and two contactees as your sources of information. I submit that all of their writings, opinions and investigations might be tainted by their backgrounds and their personal bias (which you'll probably say about me, but hey, I admit it). >The "lack of evidence" you cite is merely a rhetorical flourish >on your part that disguises your bias toward hard evidence >supported by clear facts and documents to substantiate every >claim made by the whistleblower/contactee. If hard evidence is >missing, you conclude the whistleblower is telling tall tales >and therefore lacks credibility. The key question is not so much >what evidence exists to substantiate a whistleblower/contactee >testimony, but what evidentiary standards do we use to assess >the available evidence? You raise the evidentiary threshold >inappropriately high. In the process you ignore the distorting >effect posed by the Cosmic Watergate when it comes to available >evidence, and how this impacts on assessing the claims of >whistleblowers/contactees. If Cosmic Watergate is real, as >overwhelming evidence suggests is indeed the case, then it is >logical to conclude that it impacts on the available evidence >that can be used to substantiate whistleblower/contactee data. I am suggesting that there is virtually no evidence that these whistleblowers or contactees are telling the truth. The reality of the Cosmic Watergate does not provide evidence these tales are real, only that the government has been less than candid in it's dealings with the public about UFOs. We can cite examples all day, but at the end, we require some kind of proof that these people are telling tales that are grounded in reality and that is still lacking no matter how you attempt to spin it. >We need to neither be so closed minded that we dismiss valid >testimonies nor so uncritical as to accept all testimonies. We >need to keep an open mind and develop credible social scientific >criteria for assessing whistleblower/contactee testimonies given >the existence of a Cosmic Watergate that has been clearly >substantiated. Yes, please develop some sort of credible social scientific criteria to evaluate these testimonies. Citing the sources as evidence seems to me to be arguing in circles. I, at least, require some kind of corroboration. And finally, all I was attempting to do with my post was suggest that we hadn't dismissed the contactees out of hand, but had looked at their tales. We found them wanting. Until there is
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 8 Re: Flying Saucers - 50 Years Later - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:40:09 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:23:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Flying Saucers - 50 Years Later - Hall >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:26:42 -0400 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Flying Saucers - 50 Years Later >Source: Trafford Publishing - Victoria, British Columbia, Canada >http://www.trafford.com/robots/02-0108.html >07 September 2005 >Flying Saucers - 50 Years Later >by C. A. Honey >About the Book >In the opinion of C. A. Honey, a disinformation program that >includes utilizing hypnosis, is being used by certain government >agencies to add confusion and nonsense to serious UFO studies, >thus masking the true facts about the actual nature and reality >of UFOs and their occupants. That is why the scientific >approach of C.A. Honey is so important so as to separate the >truth from nonsense. Over 25 years ago, C. A. Honey regressed >people who had encounters like the ones being talked about by >contactees and abductees today. About 95% of these claims, then >as today, are fraudulent. >His lecturers document the truth behind UFO reality and why it >was denied and kept secret by governments all over the world. >Because of its nature, he agreed with the reason behind the >secrecy, and now, after all these years, decided to once again >surface with the answers for those ready to receive them. >Here are some of the unarguable facts presented in his books - >the term "unarguable" is used in the sense that no intelligent >argument can be presented against the statements.) You can >choose to ignore or simply choose not to believe, but the >statements cannot be refuted by reasonable or intelligent >argument. That's funny. I could have sworn that I had some pretty good reasonable areguments to the contrary in some cases. So we are presented with the One Truth from Carol Honey (how cruel can parents of a male child be?) who was in the old days an ardent supporter of Adamski (now confessed ghost writer for same who couldn't keep the story straight even then), a true believer just like some currently on the List. Even though he may have come to some saner conclusions since then, he appears to be still dealing with absolutes. I think we are dealing with a very mixed up person here and I
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Clarification On Hall's Withdrawal - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:07:51 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:30:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Clarification On Hall's Withdrawal - Boone >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:36:46 +0000 >Subject: Clarification On Hall's Withdrawal <snip> >Reasons for withdrawal: In a few more months I will be 75 years >old and I have lost most of my retirement funds thanks to >spinoff from the Enron scandal, then lost my part-time job of >many years, only to face obvious age prejudice in trying to find >new work. So, as a realist I recognize that UFOs have to be >only >a spare-time interest from now on while I try to find ways to >generate income. Aside from all arguments and salutes, no one can say Dick Hall isn't a master Jedi in the Ufology field. A pal of mine who has written every top comic book in the past 30+ years and is a UFO expert exclaimed last time we chatted: "Dick Hall? God! He's been around forever!" What pisses me off is the above paragraph where he states he was another Enron victim and also a victim of age discrimination. That is a button that sets me off. I work with seniors and they are an unrecognized mother lode of treasure in our society. Recently a retired LA detective I know pitched in to solve the murder of a friend of mine ( Thanks also to Don Ecker who equally aided us in that... _big_ thanks Don ). I have a lady neighbor who is close to 80. She's from Germany living here in the states and I got her a job doing voice overs for global radio ads. Experience is ten times it's weight in gold and Dick, if you got run over by those scumbags from Enron that really makes me sore. You've got enough experience in the science and humanities to fill the Library of Congress. What I did with a couple seniors I know is I had them take the California teachers exams. They got snagged up by private schools so fast there were friction burns on their applications. They make 3 times as much as a public teacher but the only drawback is they can't stand the kids' music tastes so they fought back by blasting some Benny Goodman and Doris Day and the kids kinda liked it! So to you and other seniors trying to recover or make ends meet, reach out and teach. If necessary get your certificates and teach from home or rent space in a church. You've been teaching people for decades anyway so you should be acknowledged. For you educational administrators, politicians etc. who read this List, why not hire the people who_are_ and _made_ history, to teach.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Grant Cameron Prevented From Entering U.S. From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:44:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:44:08 -0400 Subject: Grant Cameron Prevented From Entering U.S. Story and documentation at:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Deardorff From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:43:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:02:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Deardorff >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:36:52 EDT >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 06:39:09 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:27:27 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 12:39:00 -1000 >>>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>The contactees, whether Van Tassel or Adamski, or Dan Fry, or a >>>platoon of others, were never able to offer any sort of >>>independent evidence that their tales of travel through the >>>Solar System were true - they never got to take pictures, never >>>managed to grab an artifact, never learned anything that was new >>>and different to our science. >Sorry you missed the point. I was suggesting that the >contactees, who traveled the Solar System and had long >interactions with the benevolent space brothers never supplied >any suggestion about the wonders we would see as we began to >venture out. I would think that someone would have mentioned >that Saturn wasn't the only ringed planet, that the outer >planets had dozens of moons, or that there were planet-sized >objects out beyond Pluto. They never hinted about any of these >wonders, which should have been obvious to them. >This would be soft evidence of the reality of their tales. They >could say, "Well, I told you there were rings around Jupiter and >now you see there actually are." Kevin, You're lucky that Michael Horn doesn't monitor this List (I don't think he does, that is). He's been keeping track of the predictions/observations that Meier was given/shown on his primary space trip with the Plejarens. Here are some examples that fit in the category you ask for: "[Meier's] 115th Contact of Oct. 19th, 1978 <http://www.theyfly.com/PDF/Horn_RingsofJupiter.pdf> Jupiter possesses a ring, "much thinner and smaller than the other two around Saturn and Uranus" [Confirmed in March, 1979] "the largest portion of all the outward catapulted material [from the volcanoes of Io's moon] again falls back on Io, and practically covers all volcano openings again" Etc. Often, the confirmation of such predictions comes not too many
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:21:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:04:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Clark >From: Robert Frola <ufologist.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:30:51 +1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:01:19 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 Hi, Robert, >>My impression is that Exopolitics has, at the very least, >>revealed holes in current UFO research practices and you appear >>to be applying methodologies from other disciplines in an >>attempt to fill those gaps.What's wrong with that? Especially in >>the midst of a Ufology that has become like a dog on a chain >>that has worn the ground bare. >Despite all the evidence which has emerged and research which >has gone into investigating these claims, you still ignore it. >Amazing. Its almost like a religious belief. You're right, except for the "almost." The contactee movement represents a mystical-religious response to the UFO phenomenon. By now several books and a number of papers in professional journals have examined the movement in that light. I have contributed a paper to a Syracuse University Press book in progress on that very subject. The mystical-religious aspect renders it impossible to argue with somebody who believes in contactees because the skeptical ufologist assumes that evidence is at issue, while the other holds that evidence is irrelevant because the claim is self- evidently true and, beyond that, impervious to falsification (any unflattering evidence being attributed to the machinations of by Sinister Forces). I avoid the arguments and enjoy the contactees simply as colorful characters who were/are visionaries, hucksters, pranksters, or whatever, and who tell us more about the mysteries of the human personality than about the mysteries of ETs. >From an objective, evidence-based perspective, the concept of "exopolitics" is a joke - albeit at least a harmless one - but it follows logically (if that's the appropriate adverb) from the religious approach of the contactee flock.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:06:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:13:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:23:46 -0300 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:55:31 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>I have no doubt that eventually science will develop vehicles >>that are able to travel at tremendous velocities. But here's the >>problem as I see it. In order to travel from star to star, these >>star-craft must travel at the speed of light (186,000 miles per >>second) and I just don't think that will ever be possible. In >>the world of light, there is no time, space, charge or mass and >>no rest since light travels at a constant velocity. In >>evolutionary terms, everything starts with light, then >>particles, followed by atoms which then form molecules. For >>molecules to travel at light speeds, they must become light and >>lose all identity. That's not even conceivable. We might be able >>to send our thoughts or love at light speed but not much more. >This matches the ignorance and the foolishness in the claim made >long ago that trains could never happen because the air would >get sucked out at a certain (low) speed. As such, I think it >deserves no further discussion. Hi Eugene, Thanks for joining the discussion. As I stated, I have no problem with very high speeds but the speed of light is another matter. I'm just relying on my understanding of how molecules function and their construction which seems to make light speed impossible. Could you cite some research which indicates that molecules could travel at light speeds? I'd be interested in studying it and discussing this with you. >>So? Do you think that a billion years lead time has given the >>Zetas a head start? That isn't the way evolution works, or >>trilobites would rule the world. >Are you serious? Are you really comparing a trilobite with a >human being, or a possible Zeta Reticulian? I was only pointing out that a head start of a billion years doesn't mean a thing. Trilobites had a 500 million years head start on primates but were forced into extinction, along with 95% of all life, 300 million years ago. Maybe it wasn't a good example. My main point is that huge amounts of time doesn't necessarily guarantee evolutionary success. >This is such a >faulty understanding of things, it's hard to believe you believe >this. A primitive organism like a trilobite is either an >evolutionary dead end (and probably becomes extinct), or hangs >around unchanged (like the coelacanth [latimeria]), or is part >of a line that evolves into something more complicated. And what evidence do you have that humans are not "evolutionary dead ends". >Trilobites weren't destined to evolve intelligence. A billion >years wouldn't make a difference. You'd have to define intelligence. You don't believe that trilobites could think? And by whom were they designed? >Once an intelligent organism Again, what is an intelligent organism? >has evolved and develops a technology, however, a billion years >can make one heck of a difference. You have some evidence for this statement? >>Humans have evolved their >>technologies, and taken these technological skills about as far >>as they can. >>I maintain that the creature in the AA is an evolved >>monotreme from a civilization that could be as much as 100 >>million years older than our civilization. She is a mammal and >>through convergent evolution has become humanoid. This >>civilization is limited and vulnerable but technologically >>superior to us. >We have so many inconsistencies here it's hard to understand. >First, you state that humans have evolved their technologies and >taken their technological skills about as far as they can, yet >the AA monotreme you propose is, as claimed by you, from a >civilization that (although limited and vulnerable) is >technollogically superior to us. Once we master nanotechnology, I think we'll have reached the end of the road as far as technology is concerned. When we can manipulate atoms, there will be a huge leap forward in our ability to move around the solar system and construct molecular machines. The civilization we're beginning to become conscious of has already accomplished this task. >What difference exists that has >humans at the stop sign in the road of technological progress >but permits your "product of convergent evolution" to go on and >become technologically superior? We will catch up to them, eventually, if we survive as a civilization, which is problematic. We may not survive permanent contact; it's depends on how we handle it. >Second, you claim this superior >technology of the AA monotreme exists as a result of their >civilization being a 100 million years older than our >civilization but you just got through saying to Stan that even a >billion years wouldn't make a difference or trilobites would >rule the world. I said that a billion years won't necessarily make a deference. Time could make a difference, but other factors, like temperature, could be just as important. >What difference exists that permits your >"product of convergent evolution" to become technologically >superior to humans in only a mere 100 million years but prevents >the Zeta Reticulians from becoming superior to humans given a >billion year head start? Because Zetas would have their own problems and might still be in the trilobite stage, or even the bacterial stage of their evolution or they might not have even had the right conditions for life to even begin.. We have no way of knowing. >I mean, you've said "So? Do you think that a billion years lead >time has given the Zetas a head start? That isn't the way >evolution works, or trilobites would rule the world. Humans have >evolved their technologies, and taken these technological skills >about as far as they can." Your own words say that, with regard >to a billion years, it isn't a head start because that isn't the >way evolution works. According to you, humans have gone about as >far as they can go and a billion years wouldn't make a >difference to the Zetas so they'd be stuck about where we are >now. Yet your "product of convergent evolution" has the ability >to become technologically superior in only a 100 million years. The monotreme civilization that is contacting us is "technologically superior" to us but not that much. I doubt they're traveling to the stars. They are older by many millions of years, but not necessarily wiser. They have technology, but it is not something "out of this world". The AA debris proves that. Communication and understanding is the serious problem we now face. Don't you think technology has limits? >>If you'd only study the debris section (reel 10) in the AA CD >>set I sent you several years ago and read Dennis Murphy's >>"Discussion of the Debris", >>http://www.outtahear.com/beyond_updates/debris.htm >>then we might be able to have an intelligent discussion. >Well, I don't think it is anything Stan is or isn't doing, has >or hasn't done, that is a hindrance to an intelligent >conversation here. Rather, it is your lack of a clear >understanding of several key issues and lack of a clear position >that is preventing such a discussion. I don't mean this with any >disrespect! I don't think you meant any disrespect but I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that you haven't studied the AA debris, and didn't read Dennis Murphy's article on the AA debris so you'd understand what I was talking about.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 What Was That In The Sky On Monday Night? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:17:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:17:32 -0400 Subject: What Was That In The Sky On Monday Night? Source: The Armidale Express - Armidale, New South Wales, Australia http://tinyurl.com/corbs Friday, 9 September 2005 Just What Was That In The Sky On Monday Night? By Daniel Bateman Something strange was seen in the sky above Old Inverell Rd on Monday night. An Armidale taxi driver heading towards the town, who wanted to remain anonymous, claimed he and two other people saw a line of three bright orange lights, heading west about 8.10. The lights, he estimated, were about the size and colour of streetlights and about 200 to 300m above the ground, travelling in total silence. They were travelling at a speed of about 70-80km/h. "I have no idea what they were," he said. "They were about the same size of street lights. We had nothing to compare with how high they were, but they not very high at all. "There were no navigation lights at all, and no noise. "We thought they could have been balloons, but they were going too fast." Reports of Royal Australian Air Force exercises in the city were denied by an Australian Defence Force spokesman, who said there was no RAAF activity in the area during that time. "We haven't been notified of anything at all," he said. University of New England school of physics' Dr Allan Ernest believed the UFO could have been a meteor, breaking into smaller particles upon entry into the Earth's atmosphere. "If it's a natural phenomenon, then more than likely it's a meteor," Dr Ernest said. "Travelling through the sky, they can be all sorts of colours, depending on their composition. "The usual colour is orange and they can be very fast, leaving an instant trail." He said he has seen bright orange meteorites travelling at speeds similar to aeroplanes through the sky while driving on the New England Highway, near Black Mountain. Armidale is no stranger to unexplained phenomena in its night sky. In 1996, a North Queensland man visiting Armidale spotted a flat, disk like craft with red orbs flying through the trees in the eastern side of the town. And in 1972, an Earle Page College student reported a metallic
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:40:29 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:26:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures - >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:29:45 -0700 >Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:17:17 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 21:43:42 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Vallee On Abductions & Medical Procedures >>>The point should be obvious: It is to inflict trauma and >>>>confusion, not to collect "scientific" data. >>Good point in my estimation. But for what reasons? Maybe it's >>time to conjecture as to why. >>And I'm surprised the media or others haven't attempted to >>exploit Vallee's "absurd" observation as other than what he >>meant, that absurdity can be a part of the phenomenon, but not >>the nature of the phenomenon. >One possibility might be called 'absurdity as camouflage'. >A French observer (Michele?) referred to UFO sightings as a >'festival of absurdity'. Without knowing who is really behind >UFOs, why and so forth, could the more absurd displays simply be >a way of masking origin and intent? >Think of the fabled baby elephant that painted itself pink so >it could escape from the zoo and wander about unmolested. Nobody >would cop to having seen it. >The story was fiction of course, but the absurdity >had a purpose. If you know something 'wrong' will be >seen from time to time, make it seem absurd, and thus >psychologically invisible. Hi Larry, Sorry, I was away. The word is French to begin with. Maybe in the context of the French language it has a different connotation, not easily
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Abduction by John E Mack Hardback Book From: Sean Jones <tedric.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 07:19:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:28:42 -0400 Subject: Abduction by John E Mack Hardback Book Good morning All For those that are interested, I found this on eBay.co.uk today. Abduction by John E Mack Hardback Book http://tinyurl.com/ad366
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 03:45:40 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:41:39 -0400 Subject: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron PRG Paradigm Research Group Update - September 8, 2005 - Grant Cameron PRG has researched information relevant to the situation regarding Grant Cameron being turned back at the border on his way to speak at the Nation UFO Conference. Conclusion: Homeland Security is instituting full compliance with the laws, either across the board or on a selective basis. It is well known that in the past Canadians coming into the U.S. to do a little business or work were not heavily scrutinized. The most important issue for PRG is this: was Grant Cameron simply caught up in a new policy of strict enforcement or was he selected out for strict enforcement based upon some list used by Homeland Security. At this time it is impossible to know. That said, PRG encourages all researchers and activists who plan future speaker travel to diligently research and comply with all travel regulations. Furthermore, please contact PRG if you have problems entering the United States as a foreign speaker or entering other countries from the U.S. as a speaker. To repeat, the ability to assess whether or not UFO/ET researchers are being targeted directly depends upon your dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's as regards your travel requirements. Obviously, one could skirt these requirements by giving false information to the customs officials. PRG strongly discourages this, though it will mean more work for the speaker and the venue. Giving false statements could lead to travel bans up to 5 years and other punishments. Findings: First, it is important to note that an "honorarium," as interpreted for visa and travel purposes, means a payment made by an academic institution or other nonprofit organization. If you are speaking at a for-profit function, you are a performer. (the irony here is that most of the conferences rarely make any money.) The following information from the Canada Consular Affairs website provides key information regarding "performer" visa requirements. Most importantly it provides a pdf. publication with complete information for Canadian performers: http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/pubs/PDF/canadian_performers-en.pdf This guide is described below and at website for Canada Consular Affairs http://www.voyage.gc.ca/main/pubs/canadian_performers-en.asp You are a Canadian performing artist or a member of a Canadian entertainment group in a creative field such as music, opera, dance or theatre, or you are a circus performer. You have just signed a contract with a U.S. employer for a single performance or a tour in the United States. Besides the travel and accommodation arrangements, you need a visa for temporary employment in the United States. So now what do you do? This guide outlines the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (USINS or INS) visa classifications, procedures, required materials and deadlines related to individual Canadian performing artists as well as theatre, dance and musical troupes based in Canada, but not necessarily employing solely Canadians. Included in this guide are lists of INS offices, labour unions, immigration and tax lawyers and other resources. While the INS petition process is essentially the same for non-Canadian nationals as it is for Canadian nationals, there are some procedures that are unique to Canadian nationals. Where this is the case, the word "Canadian" is in bold. Although the petitioner (U.S. presenter, management, immigration lawyer or other party) must be based in the United States, the Canadian artist and his/her manager should be fully aware of the INS process. It is the artist and/or his/her management that must provide the U.S. petitioner with the vast majority of the required materials and information. The key to success in dealing with the USINS is to gather all the documentation early and to anticipate problems before they arise. The INS process should commence between the artist and the U.S. petitioner during the booking process. According to research conducted by Arts Presenters in the United States, 90 percent of petitions that are returned are returned because of missing information, mistakes and miscalculations. Although every effort has been made to provide current and accurate information in this guide, changes do occur. You are encouraged to contact the USINS, the U.S. Embassy or a U.S. consulate in Canada for up-to-date information. You may receive conflicting information, however, as many U.S. government personnel are not familiar with the performing arts in general or the specific quirks of visa classifications for performing artists. _________________________________ Below is other information regarding Canadian travel to the US. It is provided to show how someone could get the false inpression coming to the U.S. to speak is without additional requirements. The following information from official websites has bearing on the recent refusal by U.S. Border Services to permit Grant Cameron into the United States to give a paid lecture at the National UFO Conference. Comments are given in brackets [ ]. Some bolding is added for emphasis. U.S. Department of State Website From: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1260.html Who from Canada, Mexico and Bermuda, Needs a Nonimmigrant Visa to Enter the United States Temporarily? Canada Citizens of Canada traveling to the U.S. do not require a nonimmigrant visa, except for the purposes as described below. [Note: business is not listed as a requried exception.] * Foreign government officials (A), officials and employees of international organizations (G) and NATO officials, representatives and employees assigned to the U.S. as needed to facilitate their travel; * treaty traders (E-1); * treaty investors (E-2); * fiance/es (K-1); * children of fianc=E9es (K-2); * U.S. citizen's foreign citizen spouse, who is traveling to the U.S. to complete the process of immigration (K-3); * children of a foreign citizen spouse (K-4) described above; spouses of lawful permanent residents (V-1) traveling to the U.S. to reside here while they wait for the final completion of their immigration process. * children of spouses of lawful permanent residents (V-2) described above. Permanent residents (aka landed immigrants) of Canada must have a nonimmigrant visa unless the permanent resident is a national of a country that participates in the visa waiver program (VWP), meets the VWP requirements, and is seeking to enter the U.S. for 90 days or less under that program. _____________________________________________ U.S. Customs and Border Protection From: http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/req_canada_mexico.xml Entry of Citizens of Canada [Note: there is no distinguishing between business and pleasure.] Citizens of Canada are exempt from the visa and passport requirement of Immigration and Nationality Act (section 212(a)(7).) To enter the United States, a Canadian citizen must be able to establish both identity and citizenship. Documents that may establish citizenship are: Birth certificate Citizenship certificate Passport. Although a CBP officer may accept an oral declaration of citizenship, it is recommended that a Canadian citizen carry a document that establishes citizenship. Under current procedures, all travelers may be required to present photo-identification. NOTE: A Canadian citizen arriving from outside the Western Hemisphere is required to present a passport. Canadian citizens classified as Treaty Trader, Treaty Investor, or Fianc=E9(e) require a visa. U.S. Customs and Border Protection From: http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/id_visa/difference_visa_adrecord.xml Non-Immigrant Visa Nonimmigrant visas are issued to foreign nationals seeking to enter the United States on a temporary basis for tourism, business, medical treatment and certain types of temporary work. The type of nonimmigrant visa needed is defined by immigration law, and related to the purpose of the travel. Generally, an individual applies directly to the U.S. consulate or embassy abroad for a tourist (B-2) or business nonimmigrant (B-1) visa. However, foreign nationals seeking to enter the United States to study or work may require certain authorization and documentation prior to applying for a nonimmigrant visa. For an alphabetical listing all of the nonimmigrant visa classifications and specific requirements refer to the USCIS Website at (USCIS ) or the U.S. Department of State Website, at (Temporary Visitors to the U.S.). Issuance of a visa does not guarantee entry to the United States. A visa simply indicates that a U.S. consular officer at an American embassy or consulate has reviewed the application and that officer has determined that the individual is eligible to enter the country for a specific purpose. The CBP Officer at the port-of-entry will conduct an inspection to determine if the individual is eligible for admission under U.S. immigration law. [Note the apparent discrepancy here. Canada is not listed as country exempt for purposes of business travel.] Visa Free Travel U.S. policy permits citizens of certain countries as identified below to travel to the United States without a visa. The Visa Waiver Program (VWP) permits nationals from designated countries to apply for admission to the United States for 90 days or less as nonimmigrant visitors for business or pleasure without first obtaining a U.S. nonimmigrant visa. At the time of application for admission, a VWP applicant must: Be in possession of a round-trip ticket that will transport the individual out of the United States to any other foreign port or place as long as the trip does not terminate in contiguous territory or an adjacent island; except that the round trip ticket may transport the traveler to contiguous territory or an adjacent island, if the traveler is a resident of the country of destination or if arriving at a land border, provide evidence of financial solvency and a domicile abroad to which the traveler intends to return; Be arriving on designated carrier that is signatory to a Visa Waiver Program Agreement, if applicable; Have a machine-readable passport valid for 6 months beyond the period of intended stay, or essentially 9 months (90 days + 6 months). The Department of State's 6-month list extending the validity of certain foreign passports can be found on the Department of State Website, at (Countries with Agreements with the United States to Extend Passport Validity for an Additional Six Months). (A traveler with an expired passport is ineligible for VWP admission); and, Complete an Arrival/Departure Form I-94W. Travelers arriving at a land border will be required to pay the required Form I-94W processing fee. In addition, VWP visitors may not file an application to change status to an immigrant or another nonimmigrant classification or extend their stay beyond the 90- day timeframe. VWP applicants waive their right to proceedings before an Immigration Judge, unless they make an asylum application. * Visa Waiver Program - Participating Countries Andorra Iceland Norway Australia Ireland Portugal Austria Italy San Marino Belgium Japan Singapore Brunei Liechtenstein Slovenia Denmark Luxembourg Spain Finland Monaco Sweden France Netherlands Switzerland Germany New Zealand United Kingdom For additional information about the Visa Waiver Program, refer to the Department of State Website, at (Visa Waiver Program). _______________________________________________ Paradigm Research Group E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul URL: www.paradigmclock.com Cell: 202-215-8344 4938 Hampden Lane, #161
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 World UFO Enthusiastists In China For Conference From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:47:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:47:13 -0400 Subject: World UFO Enthusiastists In China For Conference Source: People's Daily - China http://english.people.com.cn/200509/09/eng20050909_207584.html September 09, 2005 World UFO Enthusiastists In China For Conference The obsession with UFOs (unidentified flying objects) has created the largest community of enthusiasts in the world, said an organizer of the 2005 World UFO conference. A crowd of UFO enthusiasts gathered in Dalian, a port city in northeast China's Liaoning Province on Thursday to open the 2005 World UFO Conference. It is the first time the event has been held in China, said Friday's China Daily. The newspaper quoted Sun Shili, chairman of the conference as saying that the number of UFO enthusiasts now exceeds half of the world's total number of intellectuals. "Ufology is blossoming in China, and the participants to this conference are mostly professionals," said Stanton Friedman, a US nuclear physicist to the conference. A UFO society in Dalian City has found that 90 percent of its 400 members have college degrees.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Philip J. Klass 1919-2005 - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:25:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 05:50:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Philip J. Klass 1919-2005 - Speiser All: I have been absent from this List for some time, and just happened to catch the news, about a month late, that dear old Phil Klass had passed on. I am among those who give the devil his due, and while having little or no respect for his actual body of work or his professional ethics, still credit him with "keeping us honest" and making us do our homework. I daresay we know more about many cases than we would have had he not graced this mortal coil. I have several Phil stories to pass on. The image that is burned into my head most deeply is sitting with Phil in the lounge of the Aladdin Hotel late one night, deep into our Martinis, when all of a sudden, in the midst of a conversation about abductions, he got down on his knees and did this shuffle-walk thing across the floor towards my wife, saying "You're coming with us! We mean you no harm!" I'll never forget my wife's reaction - she laughed, but looked kind of embarrassed, and gave me this look that said, "So even your anti-UFO friends are kooks?" At the same Las Vegas convention, Phil took to introducing me to people as his "illegitimate father." I have no idea what that means. But at one point, he walked up to a group of us that included Walt Andrus, and said, "You know, Jim is my illegitimate father." I couldn't resist. I said, "So Walt's right, you _are_ a little bastard!" The convention was rife with Klass jokes. At one point, right after a Klass lecture, Budd Hopkins and I encountered a toddler having a temper tantrum on the floor in the hallway, screaming and pounding his fists. Budd said, "He must have heard Phil's speech." I told Budd that Klass's cab driver had been pulled over and arrested on the way from the airport. "Really?" "Yeah, they found a little dope in the back seat." That was the convention at which Marge Christensen was selling
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Circle In St. Gregor Saskatchewan From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:51:39 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:34:26 -0400 Subject: Circle In St. Gregor Saskatchewan Reported September 7. Circle in barley, slightly elliptical, with offset spiral centre, ranging from approximately 14.4 metres (47.4 feet) to 15.4 metres (50.5 feet) diameter. Counterclockwise lay. Some crossed layering in eastern portion of circle. Estimated to be 2-3 weeks old when first found, and field has already been harvested, although flattened lay of formation still relatively intact. New growths also visible, from underlying seeds. No tracks seen when first found. Near location of the large 35 metre (114 foot) circle at Humboldt, Saskatchewan in 2004. Some initial ground photos and diagram have been posted on the CCCRN web site. Currently under investigation by CCCRN Saskatchewan. Further details when available. 2005 crop circle formations to date: 5 Paul Anderson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:22:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:57:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:50:24 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:01:54 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 10:26:46 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>>Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>>However, you should also request (from NASA) the video >>>segment you are talking about and ask for telemetry timetags >>>too. This will confirm to you that the flashes occur at the >>>12:30:39 and 12:30:40 firings (which it does). You can likely >>>count on those time tags more so than the "estimate" from the >>>MCC clocks. I doubt NASA would tamper with them since >>>they didn't erase the "UFOs" in the videos. >>You've got it backwards. The video time tags can be true >>telemetry time tags. But in some cases they can be estimates, as >>the screwy time tags on the STS-48 video proved. The time >>counters kept incrementing during a loss of signal because they >>were only estimates added after the mission. You most certainly >>_cannot_ count on their accuracy. Oberg's claim that they were >>high-precision time tags turned out to be a load of rubbish. >Oh yeah, now I remember. There WERE alot of questions about >the time tags for STS-48. I never really was able to resolve >exactly how the time tags worked. I could not get an >"operational manual" on how they worked, just >hearsay. I have always relied on them because they seem to >match events pretty well, although I can't say I have ever >needed them to match to the second! From what I've seen, the video can have legitimate time stamps, but sometimes they just have estimates. There's no way to tell which is which, unless there's a convenient LOS event where the time tags keep incrementing even though the signal was lost. >>Why on earth do you claim that the MCC clock is an >>"estimate"? It's a clock. It tells the _time_ for crying out >>loud. Setting a clock to the correct time should be a simple >>matter. If they can't set that clock correctly, there's no >>reason to trust any of their time "estimates" including the >>RCS firing telemetry. >I say "estimate" because YOU assume the time on the clock >is the same as the time at the camera. No I'm not. I'm saying it's the time when the video was displayed on NASA Select TV. The one-way transmission time lag from the shuttle to the TDRS satellite to the ground station is about 2.5 to 3 seconds. The biggest delay seems to be signal processing on the TDRS satellite. <snip> >So while the MCC clocks are very accurate and Shuttle clocks are >very accurate and synchronized at launch , the MCC clocks do not >reflect the time the video was taken, and generally it doesn't >make much difference since seeing something 3-8 seconds later >doesn't alter the event too much. Thruster firings and major >engine operations are handled by the Shuttle clock and not the >MCC clock. The Shuttle clock should be the time tagged to the >video and telemetry stream but sometimes it gets botched up for >various reasons. If a thruster fired when the object is seen to accelerate, then one of the clocks, either in MCC or on the shuttle, was in error by about 6 seconds. That is a substantial error. >Okay. I assume you are stirring this whole NASA UFO video >mess up again for some reason. I assume that you want these >videos to prove that TRUFOs exist. I assume from your hostile and antagonistic attitude that you want to disprove it. I'm not "stirring up" anything, either. This has been an ongoing interest of mine for several years. If it angers you that people are still interested in the NASA UFO "mess," tough. >The thing is that if you want >the course changing UFOs to be non-prosaics (alien >or somebody's spaceship), then what >about all the other moving lights that don't >move in anything but a straight line. It's simplistic in the extreme to claim that all objects imaged in this video are either all UFOs or all orbiter-generated debris. There were about 5 or 6 objects seen in this sequence. The one object that accelerated at a light flash at a time when no thruster was firing according to the MCC clock is the only one of interest. The others may be UFOs or debris or some combination. Since there's no way to tell, I don't care about them. Why is that not clear? BTW: The object doesn't move on a straight line, and it's the only one that doesn't. It moves on a slightly curved path after it accelerates. If it were a small debris particle, the curvature might be explained by atmospheric drag. >If we accept your course >changing ones as TRUFOs then the straight line moving ones >must be TRUFOs too (since the only real difference between the >two groups is one set showed course change and the others showed >no course change). That makes no sense whatever. Large objects far from the camera (such as stars) look the same as small objects near the camera. It's the motions that distinguish them. I assume you accept that the same frame of a shuttle video can show stars as well as debris particles and that it is impossible to tell a star from debris unless you have a few frames to see how the objects are moving. Don't you? <snip> >>There's another interesting thing about the object that was not >>mentioned in my article. The cargo bay video cameras are >>oriented relative to the orbiter so that the thrusters are >>always below the bottom edge of the video frame. The object in >>the STS-102 video accelerates _toward_ the bottom of the frame >>and therefore toward the thrusters. That would be the wrong >>direction for most camera orientations, debris particles should >>be pushed toward the top of the video frame because that's the >>direction opposite to the thrusters' position. >This was the Shuttle Payload Bay "Port Aft" camera. >The attitude from: >http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/archives/sts-102/timeline/fd12sum.pdf >has the Shuttle listed at -ZLV-XVV for orbit 174. >http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/shuttle/msl/realtime/attitude.html >So the payload bay was pointed down to Earth and the Shuttle >was moving "tail first". As to camera angle, from adjacent >footage I suspect it not looking toward the front of the Shuttle. >So the thruster must be an aft one and the objects must be >in proximity to it. >What is the orientation of the thrusters relative to the >camera? Examining the footage shows that the >camera actually rotates (its lens?) such that the entire >image rotates. So I don't think you can claim the >thrusters are always "below the frame". From the documents I've read, the camera has controls only for panning and tilting but none was mentioned for rotation. But you're right that the camera appears to be rotated slightly in this video - by about 15 degrees or so. I had been thinking that some combination of panning and tilting gave the appearance of rotation, but now that I think about it some more, I don't see how that's possible. Maybe the rotation capability was added more recently than the STS-48 and STS-80 missions, which are the ones I know where the thrusters are relative to the frame. >I forget >where they are exactly but I have a nice diagram >showing them somewhere relative to the absolute camera >position. How a plume propagates >is not clear. You need to do more work to prove >the claim that the plume could not blow the debris >in the observed direction. Without decent stereo >imagery or radar or confirming ground based or other >imagery, this is a hopeless cause, it will always be >intepretible as prosaic stuff no matter what. The interpretation of other characteristics may be open to question, but if the MCC clock is correct, then it's rather hard to interpret it as "prosaic stuff". >>>An interesting video segment that may be you can look into is >>>the only from the STS-114 recent Shuttle flight. It occurred at >>>GMT 218/13:51 (orbit 174, the SAME orbit as the STS-102 one). >>Possibly the object that changes course is being subjected to >>drag forces while the particles that don't move are shielded by >>the orbiter's body from the "wind." >>The Earth's atmosphere is >>tenuous, but it's moving at 17,000 mph relative to the orbiter. >>After the course reversal, the object is clearly moving in the >>same direction as the "wind," which is consistent with a small >>object near the orbiter. But it still seems strange that the >>atmosphere in what is supposed to be "outer space" could have >>such a dramatic effect, even on a small debris particle. >>Actually, there should be a way to quantitatively determine if >>atmospheric drag could cause the course reversal. Given the >>atmosphere's density at the orbiters altitude and some >>reasonable assumption about distance from the camera, you can >>calculate the thickness of a particle that could be accelerated >>by the pressure of the atmospheric drag by the appropriate >>amount. I've been thinking of doing that but haven't gotten >>around to it yet.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Living With Aliens From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:05:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:05:20 -0400 Subject: Living With Aliens Source: The Guardian - UK http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/science/story/0,12996,1564973,00.html Thursday September 8, 2005 Comment Living With Aliens Why go to Mars - the answer to one of the biggest questions in the universe might be right under our noses? Paul Davies The Guardian The US space agency Nasa has resumed its search for life on Mars with the launch of the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. Nasa's mantra for seeking life beyond Earth is "follow the water", and Mars seems to have lots of it, albeit mostly frozen into ice or permafrost. Just this Monday a US scientist told the British Association festival of science that the sands of Mars could contain up to 50% snow and ice. One fact that is often glossed over, however, is that water may be a necessary condition for life, but it is far from sufficient. Nobody has a clue about how life may emerge from non-living substances, and what else might be needed. Because even the simplest living cell is immensely complex, the odds of such a thing forming by chance are virtu ally zero. If that's the way it happened, then life is a freak phenomenon, and we will almost certainly be alone in the universe. However, the search for life beyond Earth, which underpins the burgeoning field of astrobiology, is based on a belief that chance played only a subordinate role. Instead, some sort of "life principle" is envisaged to be at work in the universe, coaxing matter along the road to life against the raw odds. The Nobel prize-winning biologist Christian de Duve has dubbed the life principle "a cosmic imperative". Attractive though that may be, there is no direct evidence that the laws of nature are slanted in favour of life. If we found life on Mars or some other planet, and could prove it started from scratch independently of life on Earth, it would bolster the idea of a life principle. Meanwhile it remains an act of faith. De Duve thinks life will emerge more or less automatically on all Earth- like planets. But no planet is more Earth-like than Earth itself. If life is indeed a cosmic imperative, we might expect it to have started many times over on our home planet. Biologists insist that all known life stems from a single origin. Each species represents a branch on the great tree of life that derives from a universal common ancestor. Support for this view comes from the fact that many specific, complicated features of organisms, such as their genetic code, are the same in all identified species and would be most unlikely to have evolved independently more than once. But there is a flaw in this reasoning. The vast majority of organisms are microbes, and you can't tell much about their innards simply by looking. Microbiologists have developed ways of sequencing the genes of microbes to position them on the tree of life, but the procedure often doesn't work. Because these techniques are customised to identify life as we know it, they wouldn't work with life-as-we-don't-know-it. S o how can we be sure that the world about us isn't seething with alien bugs? I began researching this with Charles Lineweaver at the Australian National University. We identified several ways in which multiple genesis episodes might have left traces in Earth's geological or biological record. The real prize would be the identification of a truly alien microbe right under our noses. But how would we spot such a thing amid the welter of familiar life? A possible answer was provided by my wife Pauline, a science journalist. To make proteins, organisms use amino acids, whose molecules resemble left-handed gloves. Look at them in a mirror and they would be right-handed. The right-handed forms are not hard to make, but life does not use them. The best explanation for this preponderance of left-handed amino acids is that it represents a frozen accident: early on in the genesis process, a random choice was made and life got stuck with it. But if there were a second genesis, then the odds are 50-50 that the opposite choice would be made. This "mirror life" might resemble "our" life in most important respects, but not in its handedness. And because left- and right-handed life couldn't mix, mirror life would peacefully co-exist with our form of life. There is a Nasa project in the Atacama Desert. Here, the soil is so dry conditions are as close as you can get to those on Mars. To test for signs of life, the scientists soak the desert soil with nutrient soup to see if they get a reaction. Then they repeat with anti-soup - the same stuff, but made from mirror molecules. If the soil reacts the same way to both, biology can be ruled out as the cause. So Pauline suggested we do an experiment with a bowl of anti- soup, dropping in various microbes to see whether some of them multiply. Known life would find anti-soup unpalatable, but it might be manna to a mirror microbe. The experiment is now under way at Nasa's Marshall Spaceflight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. This is undeniably a long-shot, but a positive result would be a stupendous discovery, with the potential to confirm the cosmic imperative hypothesis. If it is true that life has arisen more than once on Earth, it is likely to have emerged on Earth-like bodies all across the galaxy and beyond. So without even leaving our home planet, we would have the answer the biggest of the big questions of existence: are we alone? Paul Davies is a physicist at the Australian Centre for Astrobiology and the author of The Origin of Life
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Reader Of The Week Jennifer Stein From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:13:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:13:27 -0400 Subject: Reader Of The Week Jennifer Stein Source: The Suburban and Wayne Times - Wayne, Pennsylvania, USA http://tinyurl.com/bg4mh 09/08/2005 Reader Of The Week: Jennifer Stein By Sam Strike Walking The Spiritual Path Visitors to the Radnor home of Jennifer Stein will find that, like her, it feels open and receptive to possibilities. The circular kitchen ceiling is a cloudy sky, and vast windows frame flourishing greenage outside, complementing the shades of purple, burnt brown and matted gold on the interior. Her home helps tell her story, one that is full of pivotal perception shifts, varied careers and talents, and an earnest immersion in phenomena and consciousness. Stein was born in Lansdale and attended college in Arizona where she earned a bachelor of science degree in textiles over 10 years, working her way through by designing, producing and selling women's clothing, and co-starting a wholesale company, all while also attending art school as well. During her fist year of college at University of Arizona she toured with Up With People, a non-religious, non-political peace organization that encouraged cross-cultural communication and believed that "people are the world's greatest resource," she said. "I was always on a spiritual path," she said. She lived on a yoga ashram for a summer, where she was introduced to vegetarianism and yoga. At one point she became very involved with the local chapter of a Jewish women's-rights organization, and also founded and ran an event coordination business for 10 years. She has lived in Radnor since 1985. One daughter, Kira, set off to Vassar College last week, and Juliet is preparing to spend six months of her high-school year studying and traveling in Israel. Despite being a temporary empty-nester, Stein will undoubtedly be busy with her various projects, like running the Main Line chapter of MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) and working on a film documentary on crop circles. Every month she brings in films or speakers about a variety of related topics to the meetings held at the Radnor Library and that have an average attendance of 30 people, she said. There people share with others ideas of "bigger potential," synchronicity and phenomena that fall into the category of "unbelievable," although they are often linked with science. Stein said that after the events of Sept. 11, 2001, she said she wanted to do something in her community "to bring together like- minded people," and decided she would host something at the library "in a conscious effort for dialogue outside of the political arena." At the gathering next week she is showing the film "What The Bleep Do We Know?!" a part documentary, part story, with elaborate visual effects and animations. The protagonist, played by Marlee Matlin, "finds herself in a fantastic Alice in Wonderland experience when her daily, uninspired life literally begins to unravel, revealing the uncertain world of the quantum field hidden behind what we consider to be our normal, waking reality," as it is written on the movie's Web site. Stein said she is trying to get one of the many scientists and mystics interviewed in the film to lead discussions after the showing. In 2000 she started in-depth crop-circle research and travel and is now working on a documentary about the "undeniable phenomenon" that everyone can see and touch, she said. Hoaxes only account for a small number of crop circles in places like England, Canada and the United States, but there are some things that can't be recreated and some scientific occurrences that must be explored, Stein said. "If you really look and study them they can blow your mind," she said. "It's too hard for some people to embrace the reality of phenomena." Stein is also an organic gardener, a substitute yoga instructor, a faux painter and a member of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, which explores "the frontiers of consciousness to advance individual, social, and global transformation." She converted to Judaism in 1981. In anything she does, she said, she tries "to get people to truly open themselves... to bigger potential in their own lives." Her husband, Michael, works as an electrical engineer and often says there are rational explanations for the feelings and phenomena that Stein explores. And she said that sometimes she learns the greatest things from "skeptics" like Michael. "I can only respect them and their path on their journey." Her Web site is:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Strange Light Has Hawkes Bay Buzzing From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:17:55 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:17:55 -0400 Subject: Strange Light Has Hawkes Bay Buzzing Source: Hawkes Bay Today - Hastings, New Zealand http://tinyurl.com/ch79p 08.09.2005 Strange Light Has Bay Buzzing by Reon Suddaby A mysterious light in the skies above Hawke's Bay has local residents looking to the heavens and radio talkback lines buzzing. Newstalk ZB was swamped with calls late last night from Dannevirke residents claiming to have seen a bright flash of white light in the sky. The light was also apparently seen in the skies above Hastings, Napier and Havelock North about 7.30pm. Senior Sergeant Mike O'Leary of the Hastings police said calls were received about the light, including a sighting of an "orange light" over Havelock North at 7.45pm. Hawke's Bay Holt Planetarium director Gary Sparks' best guess at an explanation was a "rogue meteor shower". Mr Sparks said it was possible the source of the light was a meteor, despite no meteor showers due to peak this month. No spacecraft were due to re-enter Earth's atmosphere and Venus, Jupiter and Mars were also unlikely to be responsible for the strange light, Mr Sparks said. There were also no aurora anticipated for the area. Mr Sparks said meteor showers could happen any time, although they were more common at certain times of the year. More than a tonne of material reached Earth's surface from space every day. Have Your Say
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Doleman To Speak On Roswell Site Research From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:22:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:22:02 -0400 Subject: Doleman To Speak On Roswell Site Research Source: The Los Alamos Monitor - Los Alamos New Mexico, USA http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/2005/09/08/features/features05.txt Friday, September 9, 2005 Doleman To Speak On UFOs The summer of 1947 is the when, and Roswell is the where, of probably the most famous UFO sighting in the world. Now the UNM Office of Contract Archaeology, with volunteers and a professional geophysicist, has conducted a scientific investigation at the reported Roswell impact site. Under the direction of William Doleman, the investigation conducted a staged research design, aerial photography, a geophysical search, site assessment using standard archaeological methods and follow-up laboratory analyses. Doleman will give a lecture at 7 p.m. Sept. 19 at the Courtyard Marriott, 3347 Cerrillos Road in Santa Fe at the next meeting of the Santa Fe Archaeological Society. He will discuss the project rationale, methods and recent findings.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 The Presidents And The Hard Evidence From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:32:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:32:56 -0400 Subject: The Presidents And The Hard Evidence Source: Mac Tonnies' Posthuman Blues Blog http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com Thursday, September 08, 2005 [The Presidents and the Hard Evidence http://tinyurl.com/898fu Interview with Grant Cameron http://www.presidentialufo.com/ ] "There were a number of attempts. Close Encounters was one, Project UFO, a TV series was another, produced by Colonel Coleman from Blue Book, that ran for two years. This was rumoured to be one of the schemes to drag the truth out without disclosing the cover up. Walt Disney was offered footage in 1956 and it was pulled back at the last moment. Mike Malloney, a British photo journalist talks about going to Disney and being shown some footage in 1972 by a guy called Kimball. In 1980 Linda Howe was offered the Holloman film. She was working on a documentary for HBO at the time. She was contacted by Richard Dowey [sic] and people in the DIA and she was made the same offer. The Holloman clip was to go into the HBO documentary and they dragged it out and dragged it out. She didn't get the footage and in the end, they tried to get her to go to PBS as they felt they could control the Public Broadcasting better than they could HBO." I think covert government agencies are interested in the UFO phenomenon for two main reasons. The first is data collection. With a bizarre, potentially nonhuman spectacle unfolding in our skies, it's logical to enlist the efforts of private researchers, even if their perceptions have been muddied by disinformation and the distortions of belief. Secondly, it makes sense to keep the public in 'standby' mode in the event of an unexpected breakthrough -- which may not have anything at all to do with extraterrestrials. UFOs, while real enough, make wonderful scapegoats for 'black ops' aerospace projects because our culture is impregnated with filmic visions of alien contact. Whether movies, like Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, play a semi-official indoctrination role, as argued by Cameron, is an entirely secondary issue and, in my opinion, camouflages the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 UFO Enthusiasts In Dalian For Conference From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:37:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:37:52 -0400 Subject: UFO Enthusiasts In Dalian For Conference Source: The China Daily http://tinyurl.com/83zds 2005-09-09 UFO Enthusiasts In Dalian For Conference By Zheng Yanyan (China Daily) DALIAN: Are they science nuts or are they just being hypnotized by an overdose of science fiction movies? A cult-like crowd gathered yesterday morning in Dalian, a port city in Northeast China's Liaoning Province, to open the 2005 World UFO Conference. It is the first time the event has been held in China. The obsession with UFOs (unidentified flying objects) has created the largest community of enthusiasts in the world. The number now exceeds half of the world's total number of intellectuals, claimed Sun Shili, chairman of the conference. The wide availability of cameras and camcorders has made "comparing notes" much easier and more exciting. Gu Qingwen, a member of the Beijing UFO Society, showed China Daily a video segment on his mobile phone. The footage, purportedly taken in Beijing's Longqingxia District on Lunar New Year's Day, shows a sun-like object in the sky - large, round and shining. However, it did not cast a shadow on the ground, said Gu, a 37-year-old taxi driver. Unsurprisingly given his line of work, he has other tales to share: One night in late 2003, after he had dropped off some passengers in Yizhuang District, he felt a sudden headache. "I pulled over. Then, out of nowhere, a beam of strong light shone on me, and I passed out. When I reopened my eyes, I found myself on another street." If you cannot trust the words of a Beijing taxi driver, rest assured that there are many bona-fide scientists enamoured with UFOs. For example, in Dalian's UFO Society, 90 per cent of the 400 members have college degrees. "It's exciting for us to use science to decipher UFO sightings," said Zhou Xiaoqiang, secretary-general of the Beijing UFO Society. Most of those who come to the conference believe that extraterrestrials do exist and that they are more intelligent than us human beings. "Ufology is blossoming in China, and the participants are mostly professionals," said Stanton Friedman, a US nuclear physicist. Nowadays, the public does not need much UFO awareness training, as the reporting of sightings is frequent. However, the conference has some surprises up its sleeve: It is offering up two witnesses of "encounters of the third kind." Eleven years ago, a youth named Meng Zhaoguo from Northeast China's Heilongjiang Province claimed he was attacked by aliens and taken to their flying saucer. "The kind of things I saw and heard there were incredible," he said. In 1977, Huang Yanqiu was a 21-year-old villager in Hebei Province when he claimed he "vanished three times" in one night. The last time was around 9 pm when he fell asleep in the courtyard. When he woke up at midnight, he found himself 1,200 kilometres away at the plaza of Shanghai Railway Station.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Grant Cameron Prevented From Entering U.S. - From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:27:11 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:44:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Grant Cameron Prevented From Entering U.S. - >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 04:44:08 -0400 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Grant Cameron Prevented From Entering U.S. >Story and documentation at: >http://tinyurl.com/ardmu >ebk The problem with Homeland Security is the brain dead little clones that usually end up on the frontlines of these outfits and the types that set policy for the agency in the first place. They believe every redneck thing that their government throws at them. There is no benefit of the doubt-not with these security people. The very fact that the guard would question as to why Grant would have Bush on his computer is beyond stupidity which is why he's in the job in the first place. The guy has a figurative gun on his hip so he's happy. He has the power - unearned - to screw up people's time and cost them undue delay and and expense. They get off on this stuff. Hopefully Grant got his badge number and will refer specifically to him during any legal action later. If his own superiors won't advise him then there needs to be some discomfort heaped on him to make him think the next time. Another concern is the anomally of loss of phone contacts. After New Orleans, it would make better sense if Homeland Security set up a barrier around DC, because there seems to be a greater threat to the country and the general population's lives from FEMA's lack of direction and Bush's ineptitude and cancelling of the Levees program. Often these agencies are the dumping grounds for political parties anxious to payback political favors. FEMA is a perfect example. And lives were lost for that reason. Comically, I was grilled by a US Customs Officer in 2002 while crossing from Toronto to Rochester to present at the MUFON Conference. I was the only one in line. The Beech 1900 commuter could only carry 19 of us. He kept asking more and more questions about my presentation and UFOs and the few copies of Dark Object I was carrying. After being told by a friend that his sister - of Chineses extraction - had been denied access to the states [Florida] because she told them she was visiting her boyfriend there, I was a bit paranoid about expanding on my UFO connection. His last was question was 'did I really believe that these things were real'. I replied that certainly hundreds of thousands of people from all walks of life believed what they saw. He gave me a stern look, then proceeded to tell me about a UFO sighting he, his wife and two kids had had, the previous February, leaving a hockey rink in Toronto. I hope you get some satisfaction, Grant. Did they ever determine why your laptop set off the alarms? Maybe the next time you should just send three copies of the disc ahead as separate mailings.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:47:22 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:15:29 -0400 Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Ledger >From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 03:45:40 EDT >Subject: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >PRG >Paradigm Research Group >Update - September 8, 2005 - Grant Cameron >PRG has researched information relevant to the situation regarding Grant Cameron being turned back at the border on his way to speak at the Nation UFO Conference. >Conclusion: Homeland Security is instituting full compliance >with the laws, either across the board or on a selective basis. >It is well known that in the past Canadians coming into the U.S. >to do a little business or work were not heavily scrutinized. >The most important issue for PRG is this: was Grant Cameron >simply caught up in a new policy of strict enforcement or was he >selected out for strict enforcement based upon some list used by >Homeland Security. At this time it is impossible to know. Basically what all of the above says is that if you are legal to begin with you will be discriminately scrutinized. They are taking the 'hard' line of least resistence. However, Homeland Security is powerless to stop the thousands of Mexicans (and who else?) from crossing illegally into the United States. As the United States largest trading partner it will create a hell of a mess if Canadian businessmen are going to be targetted. One can only imagine the indignant hue and cry that would be raised in the US if the shoe was on the other foot.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Doleman To Speak On Roswell Site Research - From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:33:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:19:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Doleman To Speak On Roswell Site Research - >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:22:02 -0400 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Doleman To Speak On Roswell Site Research X-BeenThere: ufo-updates.nul >Source: The Los Alamos Monitor - Los Alamos New Mexico, USA >http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/2005/09/08/features/features05.txt >Friday, September 9, 2005 >Doleman To Speak On UFOs >The summer of 1947 is the when, and Roswell is the where, of >probably the most famous UFO sighting in the world. Now the UNM >Office of Contract Archaeology, with volunteers and a >professional geophysicist, has conducted a scientific >investigation at the reported Roswell impact site. <snip> Will there be copies of the presentation available, in some form? I find this fascinating.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:55:32 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:21:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:22:59 -0500 >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:50:24 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >From what I've seen, the video can have legitimate time stamps, >but sometimes they just have estimates. There's no way to tell >which is which, unless there's a convenient LOS event where the >time tags keep incrementing even though the signal was lost. Okay, sometimes the time tags seem to be 'off' or even missing for some reason. Still, I rely on them more since they are supposed to be encoded at the source in the video/telemetry time stream that eventually is recorded on the ground and then becomes available for display on video tape. If the downlink tape cannot be read or was messed up on downlink (at least the time part of the signal) then we must live without that data. >>I say "estimate" because you assume the time on the clock >>is the same as the time at the camera. >No I'm not. I'm saying it's the time when the video was >displayed on NASA Select TV. The one-way transmission time lag >from the shuttle to the TDRS satellite to the ground station is >about 2.5 to 3 seconds. The biggest delay seems to be signal >processing on the TDRS satellite. TDRS lag IS the biggest delay, but maybe all the other things each add little bits onto it. We need to undestand how the electronics processes/buffers/transmits the signal at the Shuttle and then at the ground. We don't know that. I have been upable to get such data. >>So while the MCC clocks are very accurate and Shuttle clocks are >>very accurate and synchronized at launch , the MCC clocks do not >>reflect the time the video was taken, and generally it doesn't >>make much difference since seeing something 3-8 seconds later >>doesn't alter the event too much. Thruster firings and major >>engine operations are handled by the Shuttle clock and not the >>MCC clock. The Shuttle clock should be the time tagged to the >>video and telemetry stream but sometimes it gets botched up for >>various reasons. >If a thruster fired when the object is seen to accelerate, then >one of the clocks, either in MCC or on the shuttle, was in error >by about 6 seconds. That is a substantial error. I am telling you that the time tag for the video clip shows the time accurately at least within a second of the thruster firing. If you don't trust the time tags on the video there is nothing I can do to convince you to use them. >>Okay. I assume you are stirring this whole NASA UFO video >>mess up again for some reason. I assume that you want these >>videos to prove that TRUFOs exist. >I assume from your hostile and antagonistic attitude that you >want to disprove it. I'm not "stirring up" anything, either. >This has been an ongoing interest of mine for several years. If >it angers you that people are still interested in the NASA UFO >"mess," tough. I know you have been interested in it. But the thing is that it should be clear by now to you that no NASA video can ever prove that there are TRUFOs. The reason is because the video quality is poor, there is no stereo imagery, no radar correlation, no ground/independent verification. True, ISS and Shuttle have independent cameras and COULD do stereo imaging, but they don't because they have no need to. I call this a mess because nothing can ever be proven. Its a waste of time from my viewpoint. What is needed is our own ground based independent UFO field research which catches the kind of data we want and need rather than hope NASA catches something they slip up on and share with the public. >>The thing is that if you want >>the course changing UFOs to be non-prosaics (alien >>or somebody's spaceship), then what >>about all the other moving lights that don't >>move in anything but a straight line. >It's simplistic in the extreme to claim that all objects imaged >in this video are either all UFOs or all orbiter-generated >debris. There were about 5 or 6 objects seen in this sequence. >The one object that accelerated at a light flash at a time when >no thruster was firing according to the MCC clock is the only >one of interest. The others may be UFOs or debris or some >combination. Since there's no way to tell, I don't care about >them. Why is that not clear? Actually there are many more than 6 "objects". But, if there were 5000 "objects" which looked pretty much the same but only one moved in an interesting way then why not group them all together? If the 5000 other objects resembled things you have seen many times before on previous Shuttle missions (clearly coming from opened payload bay doors or from the aft of the Shuttle as ice flakes off) then why not correlate the two. Grouping observations happens everyday when we look into the sky. >BTW: The object doesn't move on a straight line, and it's the >only one that doesn't. It moves on a slightly curved path after >it accelerates. If it were a small debris particle, the >curvature might be explained by atmospheric drag. Okay, but still you can never prove it was a TRUFO. >>If we accept your course >>changing ones as TRUFOs then the straight line moving ones >>must be TRUFOs too (since the only real difference between the >>two groups is one set showed course change and the others showed >>no course change). >That makes no sense whatever. Large objects far from the camera >(such as stars) look the same as small objects near the camera. >It's the motions that distinguish them. I assume you accept that >the same frame of a shuttle video can show stars as well as >debris particles and that it is impossible to tell a star from >debris unless you have a few frames to see how the objects are >moving. Don't you? You know that I am talking about objects that clearly are independent of the Earth city lights and stars. Debris particles are either moving or stationary but can be differentiated based on their relative motion with respect to the background. For a Earth background this is simple. Its harder for a space/star background. My main point in this line of logic is that to assume one of these moving objects is a TRUFO (which looks almost exactly like the other objects) then we end up with a cloud of TRUFOs flying around the Shuttle and Earth in what I think would be a visible display (not confirmed by ground satellite watchers). >From the documents I've read, the camera has controls only for >panning and tilting but none was mentioned for rotation. But >you're right that the camera appears to be rotated slightly in >this video - by about 15 degrees or so. I had been thinking that >some combination of panning and tilting gave the appearance of >rotation, but now that I think about it some more, I don't see >how that's possible. Maybe the rotation capability was added >more recently than the STS-48 and STS-80 missions, which are the >ones I know where the thrusters are relative to the frame. I have the footage and it clearly rotates a couple times while keeping a fixed bead on the Earth. I have seen this numerous times in recent missions. >The interpretation of other characteristics may be open to >question, but if the MCC clock is correct, then it's rather hard
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 9 Re: Philip J. Klass 1919-2005 - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:01:09 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:23:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Philip J. Klass 1919-2005 - Ledger >From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>To: ><ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 >01:25:34 -0700 >Subject: Re: Philip J. Klass 1919-2005 >All: >I have been absent from this List for some time, and just >happened to catch the news, about a month late, that dear old >Phil Klass had passed on. I am among those who give the devil >his due, and while having little or no respect for his actual >body of work or his professional ethics, still credit him >with "keeping us honest" and making us do our homework. I >daresay we know more about many cases than we would have had >he not graced this mortal coil. <snip> The August 15th Issue of Aviation Week and Space Technology [Phil's workplace of many years] contained a tribute to Phil Klass on the very last page. I responded to it - two full paragraphs - of Klass's UFO connection to the editorial page. It will take a few weeks to determine if it made it past the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Request For Congressional Assistance/Oversight From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:21:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:57:50 -0400 Subject: Request For Congressional Assistance/Oversight To: Hon. James P. Moran U. S. House of Representatives 5115 Franconia Road - Suite B From: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 Date: September 9, 2005 When personnel at a federal agency choose to forbid entry of a Canadian citizen into the United States for the purpose of accepting an honorarium for his scheduled delivery of a lecture on a public issue of wide-ranging international interest, then we have an agency acting contrary to the best interests of our republic. That's why I'm writing you this plea for you to intervene on behalf of the aggrieved party in this matter. The agency in question happens to be the U. S. Department of Homeland Security's Customs and Border Protection (in the person of inspector No. 2740); the Canadian citizen happens to be UFO researcher Grant Cameron; and his lecture was to have been delivered at a UFO-research conference held Sept. 4, 2005, in Los Angeles, Calif. The subject of the lecture: official "UFO secrecy" policy/practices within the White House and throughout certain other elements of the U. S. executive branch. Recently, Cameron's research methodology, findings, and conclusions have attracted in-depth attention of several U. S. news-media organizations (including the History Channel on cable TV). A digest of that material appears on his Internet web site, http://www.presidentialufo.com Because of the ill-advised actions of U. S. Customs officials, Mr. Cameron has incurred unnecessary travel expenses, public humiliation, and a sense of uncivility on the part of officials who should know better. I therefore ask that you seek from the U. S. secretary of Homeland Security a prompt reimbursement of Cameron's financial loss in this matter, along with a formal letter of apology from the secretary. Beyond this particular case of U. S. governmental intrusion into international discourse and the free exchange of ideas/opinion/dissent looms a systemic menace to the body politic: why should the Department of Homeland Security feel so threatened by a fellow North American's message on such a vital public issue as to impose travel restrictions upon his delivery of that message; and why should we U. S. citizens tolerate this imposition when it interferes with our First Amendment right to receive (and act upon) the content of any Canadian researcher's message? As you help me seek remedial action in the Cameron case, I ask that you introduce legislation to prevent its recurrence - and thus to halt in its tracks the spread of this totally un-American policy/practice. Your failure to so act will send an unacceptable message to our fellow Americans: it's okay for our government to look the other way when illegal aliens from Mexico flood the U. S. job market, but not when an occasional researcher from Canada dares admit to being invited to "Mexifornia" for the purpose of lecturing on a controversial issue and being paid an honorarium for doing so. Please process and record this e-letter (a signed printout of which is being snail-mailed to you) as my written permission to share its contents with anyone of your choice.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:08:10 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:07:43 -0400 Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Randle >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:47:22 -0300 >Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 03:45:40 EDT >>Subject: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>PRG >>Paradigm Research Group >>Update - September 8, 2005 - Grant Cameron >>PRG has researched information relevant to the situation >>regarding Grant Cameron being turned back at the border on his >>way to speak at the Nation UFO Conference. >>Conclusion: Homeland Security is instituting full compliance >>with the laws, either across the board or on a selective basis. >>It is well known that in the past Canadians coming into the U.S. >>to do a little business or work were not heavily scrutinized. >>The most important issue for PRG is this: was Grant Cameron >>simply caught up in a new policy of strict enforcement or was he >>selected out for strict enforcement based upon some list used by >>Homeland Security. At this time it is impossible to know. >Basically what all of the above says is that if you are legal to >begin with you will be discriminately scrutinized. They are >taking the 'hard' line of least resistence. >However, Homeland Security is powerless to stop the thousands of >Mexicans (and who else?) from crossing illegally into the United >States. >As the United States largest trading partner it will create a >hell of a mess if Canadian businessmen are going to be >targetted. One can only imagine the indignant hue and cry that >would be raised in the US if the shoe was on the other foot. >Americans should be careful returning to the states as well. >This could [and probably has] bite them on the butt. Good Morning, Don, List, All... I usually steer clear of these sorts of political discussions, but this time I have to say something. First, another little story. When going through customs in Kuwait, prior to returning home from Iraq, the customs agents made me surrender my pocket knife and then let me onto the aircraft, with my M-16, along with 200 other soldiers, with their weapons. I'm sure the rationale was that they had been told to take the knives away from people, but this really seemed to be ridiculous. Second, remember this isn't the people of the United States causing these problems but bureaucrats who have no common sense at all. I believe we have nothing to fear from Canadians with one exception and you all can guess about who that is. Okay, it's Celine Dion but that's another story.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Secrecy News -- 09/09/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:32:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:12:52 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/09/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 86 September 9, 2005 ** GLOBAL STOCKS OF NUCLEAR EXPLOSIVE MATERIALS ** STATE SECRETS IN A PATENT CASE ** CRS ON KATRINA ** AIR FORCE HISTORY ** THE PRESS AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT GLOBAL STOCKS OF NUCLEAR EXPLOSIVE MATERIALS In an exemplary exercise of what might be termed "public intelligence," the Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS) has published a new account of nuclear explosive materials around the world. The ISIS database provides estimates of national inventories of plutonium and highly enriched uranium (as well as neptunium-237 and americium) for countries from Argentina and Armenia to Vietnam through the end of 2003. More than 50 countries were found to possess five kilograms or more of these materials. Such information is ordinarily very closely held, not only by the foreign governments themselves but also by U.S. government agencies. "Some agencies would classify all of this stuff," observed a State Department intelligence official seated next to me at the ISIS briefing on September 7 presenting the new estimates. But of course classification renders information unavailable for public deliberation. The purpose of the ISIS publication, in contrast, is "to create a set of data that everyone can use," said ISIS President David Albright. "We need a common language to discuss this," he said, particularly in light of the threat of diversion of nuclear materials by terrorists. "There is a lot of fissile material in the world," Albright said, noting that ISIS had estimated the production of nearly 4000 tonnes of highly enriched uranium and plutonium, enough for more than 300,000 nuclear weapons. See "Global Stocks of Nuclear Explosive Materials," Institute for Science and International Security, published September 2005: http://tinyurl.com/bpghy STATE SECRETS IN A PATENT CASE Once rarely used, the state secrets privilege is now being invoked by the government with uncommon frequency to limit or block litigation. It surfaced yet again this week in an ongoing patent infringement lawsuit. In 1998, the Crater Corporation alleged violation of its patent for an underwater fiber optic coupling device, but the government stepped in citing the state secrets privilege. Then- Secretary of the Navy Richard J. Danzig declared that "discovery in this case could be expected to cause extremely grave damage to national security." The case was dismissed, and appealed. This week, a federal appeals court ruled that the state secrets privilege had been properly asserted, but that the district court nevertheless erred in dismissing the plaintiff's lawsuit. A copy of the September 7 ruling in Crater v. Lucent Technologies and United States, US Court of Appeals for the Federal District, is here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/crater090705.pdf See also "Government Secrecy Request Stalls IP Case," Patently-O Patent Law Blog (thanks to MJR): http://patentlaw.typepad.com/patent/2005/09/government_secr.htm l The state secrets privilege was the subject of a news segment on National Public Radio Morning Edition by Jackie Northam today. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4838701 CRS ON KATRINA The Congressional Research Service promptly prepared several reports related to the aftermath and implications of Hurricane Katrina. Despite congressional prohibitions on direct public access to CRS products, the latest reports were made available courtesy of Pennyhill Press. "New Orleans Levees and Floodwalls: Hurricane Damage Protection," September 6, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22238.pdf "Price Increases in the Aftermath of Hurricane Katrina: Authority to Limit Price Gouging," September 2, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22236.pdf "Disaster Evacuation and Displacement Policy: Issues for Congress," September 2, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22235.pdf "Tax Deductions for Catastrophic Risk Insurance Reserves: Explanation and Economic Analysis," September 2, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33060.pdf A few other notable recent CRS publications are: "Venezuela: Political Conditions and U.S. Policy," updated August 24, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL32488.pdf "Argentina: Political Conditions and U.S. Relations," updated August 17, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS21113.pdf "Science and Technology Policy: Issues for the 109th Congress," updated August 22, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32837.pdf AIR FORCE HISTORY Air Force history "is an objective, accurate, descriptive, and interpretive record of all activities of the Air Force in peace and war. By recounting lessons learned, Air Force history enables our nations' military and civilian leaders to approach current problems and concerns more intelligently and professionally." It is the mission of Air Force historians "to provide immediate and continuing historical documentation of [military operations], and to preserve complete, accurate, and useful records for future analysis and study." The role of the Air Force historian was spelled out at length in two Air Force Instructions that were issued last month. See: Air Force Instruction 84-101, "Historical Products, Services, and Requirements," 1 August 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/usaf/afi84-101.pdf Air Force Instruction 84-102, "Historical Operations in Contingencies and War," 1 August 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/usaf/afi84-102.pdf THE PRESS AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT "Without the media the Civil Rights Movement would have been a bird without wings," said movement veteran Rep. John Lewis in a tribute published yesterday. "Without the media's willingness to stand in harm's way and starkly portray events of the Movement as they saw them unfold, Americans may never have understood or even believed the horrors that African Americans faced in the Deep South." "That commitment to publish the truth took courage. It was incredibly dangerous to be seen with a pad, a pen, or a camera in Mississippi, Alabama or Georgia where the heart of the struggle took place," Rep. Lewis said. His remarks, a timely reminder of the importance of a free press, also carried an implicit suggestion that the summit of journalistic achievement may be something other than the Watergate-style expose. See "On the Contribution of the Press to the Civil Rights Movement," by Rep. John Lewis, entered in the Congressional Record, September 8, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2005/h090805.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 'UFO' Sighting Sparked Lifelong Hobby From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:17:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:17:35 -0400 Subject: 'UFO' Sighting Sparked Lifelong Hobby Source: The Yorkshire Eveing Post - Leeds, Yorkshire, UK http://tinyurl.com/9m6mb 09 September 2005 PC's mission takes him into the unknown 'UFO' Sighting Sparked Lifelong Hobby By Mark Lavery Tracking UFO sightings may seem an odd choice of hobby for a detective. But West Yorkshire transport cop Gary Heseltine, 45, has a lifetime of experience in all things extra-terrestrial. And now he's landed his dream part time job editing UFOmonthly.com. Det Con Heseltine's interest in alien life forms was sparked when, as a 15-year-old, he spotted a moving bright white light bigger than the stars which caused power cuts near his childhood home in Scunthorpe. His next sighting was of a UFO in the shape of a moving triangle of bright white lights above the back garden of his home in Crofton, Wakefield, in August 1999. Frustrated that the media were not taking UFO sightings seriously, the father-of-two, who works for British Transport Police, became a guest writer on UFO Magazine and set up a database for police to report sightings of UFOs on the hobbies section of a police intranet website. Since 2001 he has investigated 302 cases involving 122 on and off duty police officers. And he is convinced the actual numbers of sightings are much higher. "By definition police officers are trained observers and should count as an excellent category of witness," he said. "There is no doubt in my mind that many officers have never gone on to report sightings because they have feared ridicule or perceived that their careers might be harmed." Impressed He continued: "In 1995 I picked up a copy of the then bi-monthly publication of UFO Magazine and was impressed by the quality of the reporting. I was particularly drawn to the sightings made by commercial pilots, military pilots, astronauts, cosmonauts, high ranking military officers, radar operators and police .
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Phoenix Lights 2nd L.A. Screening With New Footage From: Dr. Lynne Kitei <drlynne.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:00:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:28:51 -0400 Subject: Phoenix Lights 2nd L.A. Screening With New Footage After rave reviews at Warner Brother's Hollywood Premier on August 19th, don't miss the newly revised edition of this groundbreaking feature documentay, including a spectacular sighting of August 30, 2005 The Phoenix Lights Documentary based on the bestselling book, The Phoenix Lights... A Skeptic's Discovery That We Are Not Alone Winner of the New York International Independent Film Festival Best Director Award Has been selected for a special screening at the Los Angeles International Independent Film Festival at: Laemmle Fairfax Theatres 7907 Beverly Blvd Los Angeles Saturday September 24 at 4 p.m. Dr. Lynne will be on hand for Q & A, as well as book signing Tickets & VIP Passes can be purchased from TicketWeb by calling 1(866) 468-7619 or log on to: www.ticketweb.com Tickets can also be purchased at the ticket booth for $10. Accreditation - Press and industry can get all-access VIP passes by faxing requests to (702) 361-6309 on your company letterhead (Attn: Annalisa San Juan). www.nyfilmvideo.com On March 13, 1997, while looking skyward for a glimpse of the Halle-Bopp Comet, thousands of Arizona residents also witnessed a mile-wide, V-shaped formation of lights [that seemed to be attached to something] slowly and silently gliding over their heads. Based on the book "The Phoenix Lights...A Skeptic's Discovery that We Are Not Alone" by key witness, Lynne D. Kitei, M.D., THE PHOENIX LIGHTS DOCUMENTARY highlights the historic unexplained mass sighting and much more. Over 40 credible eyewitnesses, MIlitary, Former Phoenix Vice Mayor, University based scientists and experts give compelling testimony to the reality of these mysterious global visitations. What were they? How did they affect the witnesses? What do they mean? The Phoenix Lights 75 minute Documentary is produced and directed by physician and author, Lynne D. Kitei, M.D. in collaboration with Steve Lantz Productions.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:30:56 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:32:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Rudiak >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:55:31 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:18:48 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:24:53 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>I'm sorry if I've been confusing. You made an important point >>>and I was trying to elaborate. I agree with you that the AA >>>craft could have come from a mothership. But a "starship" is not >>>a possibility since travel between stars isn't possible, and >>>hasn't been accomplished by any civilization, anywhere, under >>>any circumstances, as far as we know. "As far as we know" doesn't prove anything. There are lots of things that I don't know with any certainty, or Ed doesn't know, but they happen anyway whether we know it or not. It is quite possible there are people within the government who do know with certainty even if we outsiders do not. If there have been crash recoveries with bodies recovered having physiology and biochemistry so remarkably different than anything else here on earth that they couldn't have evolved here, then they would establish with certainty that the beings and their ships were extraterrestrial. That would mean they either come from other stellar systems in our known universe or from some other universe. Either way, they would not be of this earth. >>>Kaku's pipe dreams will never become reality. >>>In this case, (travel between stars) our >>>reach far exceeds our grasp. We can believe, on faith, that >>>star travel is possible, but there is no evidence. This is no different than standard skeptic or debunker denial that UFOs are not real and therefore do cannot be evidence of possible star travel. Ed doesn't deny UFOs are real, but has this strange notion that the beings piloting them must orginally have evolved on earth. Again how he deduces all this and assert all the things he does with such certainty remains a bit of a mystery to me. Despite Ed's naysaying, NASA has a small research effort right now devoted to possible interstellar propulsion systems. This was started during the reign of previous NASA director Dan Golden, who set a goal of launching a small interstellar probe within the next 40 years. >>The notion that travel between the stars isn't possible is flat >>out ridiculous. I worked on fusion propulsion sytems in the >>early 1960s... able to eject charged particles having 10 million >>times as much energy per particle as in a dumb old chemical >>rocket. No we haven't done it yet, We hadn't gone to the moon >>in 1925 either nor flown in 1900. >I have no doubt that eventually science will develop vehicles >that are able to travel at tremendous velocities. But here's >the problem as I see it. In order to travel from star to star, >these star-craft must travel at the speed of light (186,000 >miles per second) and I just don't think that will ever be >possible. This is utter nonsense. Why would it be necessary to travel at literal light speed? Why not sublight speed? By Ed's logic, travel between city A and city B is impossible unless one uses the space shuttle, instead of something slower like a plane or car. Sublight travel at 10% or 20% of light speed would still be quite adequate to move between adjacent stars. It would just take longer than light-speed or faster-than-light speed. But this could still be accomplished in a variety of ways. <snip> >>Let us not forget that we have only had "sophisticated" >>technology for about 100 years. Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli >>just down the street 39 light years away are a billion years >>older than the sun. >So? Do you think that a billion years lead time has given the >Zetas a head start? That isn't the way evolution works, or >trilobites would rule the world. Did trilobites have the necessary ingredients to build a technological civilization, such as big brains, good vision, something like opposable thumbs, ability to build fire and smelt metals (try doing that underwater!), etc., etc. The analogy is ridiculous. Conversely, Ed talks below about his AA being having evolved here, being a monotreme (i.e. non-placental mammal), looking like us because of convergent evolution, and being much more advanced than us because their civilization might be as much as 100 million years older than ours. Aside from the question of how he deduced all this, he is not exactly being consistent in his arguments. All Stan was saying is that some nearby civlization could have achieved interstellar travel and be here because they had a head-start of millions of years. >Humans have evolved their >technologies, and taken these technological skills about as >far as they can. Yet another amazing statement from Ed, based on what exactly? Various scientists have been proclaiming the "death of science," i.e., the end of any new science, for over 200 years, and yet something new always seems to comes along. Yes, _possibly_ there will come a point where the technology becomes so advanced that technological innovation will basically cease, but based on our own experience here on planet earth, I haven't seen any evidence of that happening here yet, not even remotely close. Instead technological innovation is happening so fast in so many fields that even the experts can't keep up with it and are forced to specialize. Again Ed isn't exactly consistent with his arguments. He is saying that humans have hit a dead end technologically, but not his AA monotremes, who would seem to be way more advanced than us with their flying machines and ability to conceal themselves from us. Where exactly are they supposed to be living? >Nanotechnology, the science of the future will certainly improve >our chances of visiting the outer reaches of our solar system. >but never the stars. And you have no evidence that it will. And Ed has no evidence to the contrary, just more overreaching assertions based on faulty reasoning. >>We have also operated powerful fission rockets on >>the ground in the 1960s. Ed, you remind me of Dr. Campbell who >>in 1941 did a long "scientific" paper showing that the >>required initial launch weight for a chemical rocket to get >>a man to the moon and back would be a million, million tons. >>He was off by a >>factor of 300,000,000. I am not talking about Kaku's stuff, >>though he may be right. You really ought to read my 1999 MUFON >>paper "Star Travel? YES!". In case you hadn't noticed it we >>don't use slide rules much any more. >... I drove five hours to bring you a sample >of the cristobalite from the AA crash site and you didn't >even thank me. And there is still no evidence that you've read >any of Corso's book. And I know you've never read my article >on the AA crash site and probably not Wendy's either. I'm not >basing my negative opinion regarding star travel on "launch >weight" but on what science knows about molecular machines. >There are limits to technology. But love might find a way. I'm going to overlook more of Ed's questionable statements here and instead talk about his crash site near Socorro. Wendy Connor's took me out to Ed's site last April and I've been negligent in reporting on my impressions. I think the most interesting and anomalous part of it was the long row of damaged trees that were burned _on top_, and not from underneath, as one would expect from a brush fire. This is also a very arid area with little vegetation, so how the charring on top occurred is a bit of a mystery. There is also some rock scorching, but the pattern seemed more haphazard to me. A brush and forest fire expert would probably be needed to evaluate the unusual scorching patterns and see if there were a plausible explanation for them. I was not that impressed with the mineral deposits that Ed puts so much stock in. I certainly do not think, as Ed does, that they were in molten form and somehow splattered down from above by a crashing saucer. Instead, they looked completely natural to me, even if the mineral cristabolite is rare in large crystalline form. For one thing, splattered molten rock would be loosely adherent to whatever it landed on once it cooled. You should find splatter samples on the sand here and there. But everything I saw was always on substrate rocks and tightly adherent, just as one would expect had the crystals slowly grown there. On one sample, the crystals were growing into a small fissure in the rock. A splatter wouldn't do that. I found some rocks with the crystals underneath, not on top, and one large rock buried in the soil where the crystalline surface extended some distance under the soil (I dug down several inches, and the underlying rock and crystal extended beyond where I dug). None of this is consistent with molten material splattered from above. Another thing is that splattered molten material would have cooled quickly as it fell through the air and landed on rocks and sand below. It would not have formed large crystals, which grow very slowly, over a period of years or centuries, not minutes or hours or days. Cooled lava, e.g., does not form crystals, except maybe very, very tiny ones you would need a microscope to see. Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes. Let's assume the alien autopsy was the real thing and the cameraman was for real and describing the actual crash site. If he described the crystalline deposits on the rocks, they could be natural, couldn't they. Why create some strange theory of the saucer sucking up the sand, melting it, and then splattering it around? >>>We should work with what we have and what we know for sure >>>and the simplest explanation possible: we share our planet and >>>the solar system with at least one other civilization. Not so simple, if you assume the other civilization somehow arose from earth. What evidence exists to show that they were ever here, like their bones or remains of their civilization? Where are they hiding now? Inside hollow Earth? On Planet X? Let's get a little bit sensible here. <snip> >I agree that we are beginning to become conscious of an alien >presence. I doubt this presence is from another star system. I >was simply pointing out that you have nothing but supposition >to back your claims. I base my case on the creature in the >AA and the debris from the craft she was flying. <snip> >>>This civilization evolved here and is subject to the same >>>environmental forses and constraints as humans. >...I maintain that the creature in the AA is an evolved >monotreme from a civilization that could be as much as 100 >million years older than our civilization. She is a mammal and >through convergent evolution has become humanoid. This >civilization is limited and vulnerable but technologically >superior to us. I could go on but you get the point. Unfortunately, Ed's case is almost entirely supposition, so he is in no position to be casting stones at Stan's theories (which seem much more plausible to me). We don't know if the AA film is for real. Ed assumes it's for real and the being depicted there for real and not human. He then further jumps to the conclusion that the being must have evolved here using screwy reasoning about why interstellar travel would be impossible. His conclusion jumping continues with the AA creature being a monotreme, i.e., marsupials like the duck-billed platypus. I guess he deduces that solely from the AA being not having a navel (and maybe nipples, though even marsupials have nipples somewhere), but neither necessarily would a rubber dummy or surgerically/cosmetically altered human. This doesn't mean Ed is necessarily wrong about the AA being for real or for having found the crash site. I'm still intrigued by the peculiar scorched trees. I think a modest investment further investigating Ed's site is warranted. A good place to start might be in dating the year the trees were scorched, which could be done with tree ring analysis. If the date were other than
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Holman From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:57:39 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:38:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Holman >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:43:54 -0700 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:36:52 EDT >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>Sorry you missed the point. I was suggesting that the >>contactees, who traveled the Solar System and had long >>interactions with the benevolent space brothers never supplied >>any suggestion about the wonders we would see as we began to >>venture out. I would think that someone would have mentioned >>that Saturn wasn't the only ringed planet, that the outer >>planets had dozens of moons, or that there were planet-sized >>objects out beyond Pluto. They never hinted about any of these >>wonders, which should have been obvious to them. >>This would be soft evidence of the reality of their tales. They >>could say, "Well, I told you there were rings around Jupiter and >>now you see there actually are." >Kevin, >You're lucky that Michael Horn doesn't monitor this List (I >don't think he does, that is). He's been keeping track of the >predictions/observations that Meier was given/shown on his >primary space trip with the Plejarens. Here are some examples >that fit in the category you ask for: >"[Meier's] 115th Contact of Oct. 19th, 1978 >http://www.theyfly.com/PDF/Horn_RingsofJupiter.pdf >Jupiter possesses a ring, "much thinner and smaller than the >other two around Saturn and Uranus" [Confirmed in March, 1979] >"the largest portion of all the outward catapulted material >[from the volcanoes of Io's moon] again falls back on Io, and >practically covers all volcano openings again" >Etc. >Often, the confirmation of such predictions comes not too many >weeks or months later, such that those unaware of the meticulous >care Meier took to preserve his Contact Notes, honestly dated >and unaltered, can claim backdating occurred. I'm one of those unaware of this "meticulous care". Could you please explain the process? How can we be sure that this prediction predates the Voyager flyby in March 1979? There are also some problems with the material Horn presents in the PDF you link to. Firstly, Meier says (and Semjase confirms) that Jupiter's ring (singular - clearly they were unaware that Jupiter has multiple rings) "for the most part" consists of material ejected from Io's volcanos. Horn claims this has been verified - but the Galileo press release he cites concludes that the rings are formed from dust kicked up from meteorite impacts on Jupiter's four small inner moons. Not only is this different to volcanic ejecta from Io, but Io is _not_ one of these moons the press release refers to! These are Metis, Adrastea, Amalthea and Thebe. Io would be one of the four _big_ inner moons.) See: http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~sheppard/satellites/jupsatdata.html Meier also refers to an egg-shaped moon, which he thinks was the closest to Jupiter. Semjase tells him that this is Amalthea. Well, it _was_ the closest known moon in 1978-9, before two others were discovered from Voyager images, but not announced until 1980 (Metis and Adrastea). That will do for now. It really looks to me like a "prophecy" concocted soon after the Voyager 1 flyby, using preliminary results from the mission liberally larded with ill-founded speculation that has not been borne out - contrary to Horn's claims. But, if the prophecy could absolutely be shown to date
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:19:46 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:13:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:55:31 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:23:46 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:55:31 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>I have no doubt that eventually science will develop vehicles >>>that are able to travel at tremendous velocities. But here's the >>>problem as I see it. In order to travel from star to star, these >>>star-craft must travel at the speed of light (186,000 miles per >>>second) and I just don't think that will ever be possible. In >>>the world of light, there is no time, space, charge or mass and >>>no rest since light travels at a constant velocity. In >>>evolutionary terms, everything starts with light, then >>>particles, followed by atoms which then form molecules. For >>molecules to travel at light speeds, they must become light and >>>lose all identity. That's not even conceivable. We might be able >>>to send our thoughts or love at light speed but not much more. >>This matches the ignorance and the foolishness in the claim made >>long ago that trains could never happen because the air would >>get sucked out at a certain (low) speed. As such, I think it >>deserves no further discussion. >Hi Eugene, >Thanks for joining the discussion. As I stated, I have no >problem with very high speeds but the speed of light is another >matter. I'm just relying on my understanding of how molecules >function and their construction which seems to make light speed >impossible. Could you cite some research which indicates that >molecules could travel at light speeds? I'd be interested in >studying it and discussing this with you. >>This is such a >>faulty understanding of things, it's hard to believe you believe >>this. A primitive organism like a trilobite is either an >>evolutionary dead end (and probably becomes extinct), or hangs >>around unchanged (like the coelacanth [latimeria]), or is part >>of a line that evolves into something more complicated. >And what evidence do you have that humans are not >"evolutionary dead ends". >>Trilobites weren't destined to evolve intelligence. A billion >>years wouldn't make a difference. >You'd have to define intelligence. You don't believe that >trilobites could think? And by whom were they designed? >Again, what is an intelligent organism? We were discussing if it possible to get to the stars as well as technologically superior civilizations, so, for this discussion, intelligent organisms - as I am referring to them - are those capable of developing a technology that could get them into outer space. Whether or not humans are an evolutionary 'dead end' is a red herring. Humans exist, have developed a technology, have entered space and hope some day to accomplish interstellar travel, and apparently are being confronted by some 'other' civilization right now. The issues that concerned us are: (1) whether that 'other' civilization could be getting here from the stars, and (2) if ET has a billion year head start would it matter as to its ability to get here from out there. Whether or not humans eventually pass or flunk the evolutionary process is irrelevant to the discussion, as it makes no difference to whether or not ET could be here or to whether or not it could get here. I have no idea what went on in the mind of a trilobite and what was responsible for their design. More red herrings! I don't think you should make such hard pronouncements as to what is and isn't possible. You've used phrases and words like "that's not even conceivable" and "improve our chances of visiting the outer reaches of our solar system but never the stars." When I read your description of how things move up from 'particles' to 'atoms' to 'molecules' and the characteristics/limitations these have, I get the strong impression you haven't detached yourself from the old concept (in your mind's eye, at least) that these function like ping pong balls floating in an ocean of water or air. That is, you 'see' in your mind, say, an elementary particle, as a tiny ping pong ball type thing that acts just like a ping pong ball. However, elementary particles aren't minature ping pong balls and certainly don't act like tiny little ping pong balls. Quantum physics paints a very different picture of them. They are strange little entities that don't behave anything like matter at the macroscopic level (molecules, for example) does. They haven't been completely figured out yet but elementary particles may yet prove to be ubiquitous energy fields with a point of manifestation (where we perceive the particle 'to be'). The universe may be holographic with all information existing ubiquitously. Such an ubiquitous particle may manifest at a certain point in apparent space-time but may be able to suddenly stop manifesting at that point and instantly start manifesting at another point on the other side of the galaxy. The 'ping pong ball' elementary particle (from our perspective) may in reality be a field of energy that exists everywhere in space-time, connected at the quantum level to all other 'ping pong ball' elementary particles, each with the ability to stop manifesting as a 'ping pong ball' elementary particle at a particular point and instantly - without the passage of time - begin manifesting as the 'ping pong ball' elementary particle in the Zeta Reticuli star system, or anywhere else. If the universe is indeed holographic in nature and elemenatary particles are indeed ubiquitous energy fields then a civilization that has a billion year head start may have had ample time to figure out how to make good use of a universe structured in such a way, especially when it comes to moving information around. You assume that to get to the stars you have to push big chunks of macroscopic matter up to light speed. Maybe so! Maybe not! To a civililization 'in the know' getting from one side of the universe to the other side may be as easy as flicking a light switch off and on. A few hundred years ago the thought of wiring the entire world to the point it is today so that electricity could be used as it is in our modern civilization would have appeared a daunting task. Yet, it's all taken for granted today and is ultra-convenient to use. Nobody even thinks of it any more. In a holographic universe where all information is ubiquitous and connected at the quantum level, moving information around may be a lot more subtle and easier than pushing some big metal spaceship up to light speed to carry a few space-faring dudes across light-years and light-years of space and taking decades or centuries to do it. Reminds me of a little cartoon that was in an article on superstring theory that I read in, I think, 1987 or 1988. The 'string' (drawn as a little string person) was pulling someone along by the hand and being asked by the person being dragged, "String, where are we going?" The string replies, "That's the beauty of being ubiquitous. I'm already there!" (Or words to that effect.) Maybe other civilizations aren't driven by profit and the people within these civilizations aren't out to 'take care of number one' and instead work as a unit for the good of the unit (organisms like ants and bees do this right here on earth). Imagine what an intelligent civilization that works coherently as a unit for the good of the unit - not worried about profit and individual gain - with a billion year head start - could accomplish if it discovered a holographic universe wherein all information was ubiquitous. Your 'molecules needing to be pushed through the vacuum of space at high velocities' may not be the only picture to look at, and may portray a most crude and primative method. There may be 'other ways to skin a cat' as they say. >>has evolved and develops a technology, however, a billion years >>can make one heck of a difference. >You have some evidence for this statement? I don't need any evidence. I said a billion years _can_ make a difference, not a billion years automatically _does_ make a difference. The fact that just a few thousand years or a few hundred years as evidenced in our own case _has_ made a difference shows that 'time' to a technological civilization _can_ make a difference. If it didn't, we'd still be in the stone age and we wouldn't be making more and more technological progress with each passing year, as we've been doing. But what 'we humans' have accomplished 'in time' serves as a bit of evidence as to what 'time' can mean to a technological civilization, if you require evidence. But you've said as much too in your next post, so we agree in this regard that time _can_ make a difference although it's not automatically so, as other factors can be equally important and we have no way of knowing right now what conditions exist or what phases life is in when it comes to planets within other star systems. >The monotreme civilization that is contacting us is >"technologically superior" to us but not that much. I doubt >they're traveling to the stars. They are older by many millions >of years, but not necessarily wiser. They have technology, but >it is not something "out of this world" This is full of dangerous assumptions again! We don't know the nature of this other intelligence! We don't know the level of its technology! Having said this, I'd like to stick my neck out and say that I'd be very much surprised if ET is not somehow involved. But I also don't think ET comprises the full picture here. I suspect an older human civilization - or, at least, some human contingent exterior to any modern human civilization - is wrapped up too in whatever is going on. And I'm convinced there's a big RT or 'reality transference' occurring during our interaction with this phenomenon. The RT notion is very confusing to a lot of people. They think that when I mention RT I mean the UFO experience is only a mental or subjective experience, without a physical foundation. God knows when I spoke about this at the MUFON symposium held in Dartmouth, NS last September, when I was National Director for MUFON in Canada, it was not well received. People mostly were hostile to the concept of RT. Truely, I was surprised and unprepared for the degree of hostility to the concept. They killed me a thousand times that day! (Was it Stan Friedman who said, "Poor Gene, died a thousand deaths up there."?) They didn't seem to grasp it. There were equating RT with 'hallucinations.' That is not what I'm saying. I think UFOs are very physical - very real - constructions that can be photographed, videotaped, tracked by radar, and touched. They are as physical and as real as my car sitting out there in the yard. They carry real flesh and blood occupants, if need be. But I think the UFO phenomenon knows more about the physical world and the psychic world than we do and it's applying this in ways that we don't understand. And by this, I don't simply mean it knows about some better way to harness nuclear energy or knows how to make an engine that produces less pollution, or whatever. I think its technology represents a true paradigm shift. I think it is manipulating matter, energy, and consciousness in ways that cause the 'oz factor' apparent in many UFO events (one type of RT). This 'oz factor' is an RT that is a direct consequence of the technology used by the UFO intelligence. Controlled Witness Perception (CWP) could be a part of this type of RT, although right now I'm inclined to think it isn't. There are other types of 'reality transformation' occuring during the UFO- human interaction that are not a result of the technology used by the phenomenon, such as the process that causes a witness to misinterpret an IFO as a UFO - perceive an 'ad plane' as a domed disk, or a meteor as a spaceship with rows of windows, for example. This same process is, I think, active - but unrecognized - in genuine UFO events too, and distorts the experience to varying degrees. The work of Allan Hendry shows that the people who misperceive IFOs are the same type of people who report genuine anomalous events, so the process is probably at work in both situations, that is, when a person misinterprets an IFO as something anomalous _and_ when a genuine anomaly manifests itself to the same type of person. Additionally, the work of Alvin Lawson shows that the human mind can be quite active in generating the content of UFO events - his work with hypnosis and in invoking imaginary abductions shows the imaginary abductions are remarkably similiar experiences to the real 'abductions.' I think the UFO experience is a blend of contributions from both sides of the encounter. The phenomenon is using a technology that represents a paradigm shift from our viewpoints and can manipulate matter, energy, consciousness in ways that mystify us as some type of 'oz factor' while our own minds are just as active and distorting the already puzzling circumstances that are part of the UFO experience. The end result is something that is hard to make sense of and apparently full of inconsistencies. Add to this the sheer fantasy and delusions that are rife in the field and it's one mystery indeed! So, whether this 'other' civilization is only a little bit more advanced than we are is not so easy to know. It could be both ways! Perhaps as long as it uses principles that are outside the paradigm we are trapped within, it is way ahead of us. But perhaps we could make a discovery tomorrow or in a decade or two that would result in such a complete paradigm shift that we'd soon be on a level field with it. It just seems that saying things are impossible is arrogant and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Scoop Marks Vs. Dupuytren's Contracture From: Paul Badger <pbadger.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:22:33 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:17:31 -0400 Subject: Scoop Marks Vs. Dupuytren's Contracture Source: UFO*BC's site http://www.ufobc.ca/yukon/n-canol-abd/hands.htm The page is worth visiting for pictures... [Excerpt Begins] Kevin's Hands One of the most mysterious aspects of Kevin's case is the appearance of markings on his hands after the incident. The following are more details that Kevin provided about the marks: - The marks never existed prior to the Sept 4, 1987 event. - Kevin mentioned "I recall rubbing my hands together" (due to a strange feeling in his hands) while talking with the aliens. - Kevin finally examined his hands a few days later. "I was totally shocked to see a mark on my hand. Then I looked at my other hand and couldn't believe I had one there too." They got worse or became more prominent over the next 10 days to two weeks. It only took them that long for them to have the same appearance that they still have today. Over the years, Kevin has asked various doctors and nurses about what they thought they were without giving them the background on how he thought he obtained them. Most did not have any idea. However, One doctor asked, "oh, have you had that for a couple of weeks or something like that?" Kevin replied, "no, its been 8 years". The doctor's eyes got wide and he was quite surprised by Kevin's answer. The doctor asked Kevin if he had any problems with his hands "seizing up". Kevin replied, "No, I can play the guitar no problem." The doctor told Kevin that if he ever develops such a problem, that they can make a few cuts to get rid of the tension and that the treatment is not a really big deal. The doctor told Kevin the name of this disorder but Kevin couldn't recall it when he was interviewed by the author about 5 years later. The doctor also told Kevin that the medical profession does not know what causes it. The author performed an internet search on "problems with hands" and a condition came up that closely matched what the doctor told Kevin. It is called Dupuytren's (pronounced du-pwe-trahns') Contracture. Dupuytren's Contracture Dupuytren's Contracture is a disease whose cause is unknown but most often affects men of a northern European decent indicating that it may be hereditary. It occurs when the connective tissue under the skin begins to thicken and shorten. It initially starts as a painless nodule resembling a callous, most commonly at the base of the ring finger. One or both hands can be affected. If the condition progresses, the tissue tightens and it may pull the fingers towards the palm of the hand. In some individuals, the condition may progress until the fingers can no longer perform day to day functions. If the condition progresses this far, surgery is the only way to correct the problem. In other individuals, it only produces the initial symptoms of a callous type formation. For more information, click on this external link. Does Kevin have Dupuytren's Contracture? Kevin has never been diagnosed with this condition although this is still a possibility. Other than the marks on the hands he has not developed any disability. Kevin can place his hands flat on the table with no problem (This is a test to see if a case of Dupuytren's Contracture is severe enough to require surgery). He can also play a guitar with no problem. There are a range of possibilities that could explain the marks on Kevin's hands: 1. Kevin developed the mild form of Dupuytren's Contracture coincidentally with the incident. 2. Something the aliens did or something during the encounter inadvertently triggered a mild form of Dupuytren's Contracture. 3. The marks are not Dupuytren's Contracture but are the result of some procedure that the aliens performed on Kevin. The obvious speculation would be that the aliens placed some sort of implants in the palm of his hands.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:41:20 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:19:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons - Frison >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFOUpdates.nul >Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:26:41 -0300 >Subject: Re: Ufology's Internal War >Having said this, I'd like to stick my neck out and say that I'd be very >much surprised if ET is not somehow involved. But I also don't think ET >comprises the full picture here. I suspect an older human civilization >or, at least, some human contingent exterior to any modern human >civilization - is wrapped up too in whatever is going on. And I'm >convinced there's a big RT or 'reality transference' occurring during >our interaction with this phenomenon. Regarding my previous post, RT (as I use the term) stands for 'Reality Transformation' - not 'Reality transference' as I inadvertantly wrote in one paragraph. (See above)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:47:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:21:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:55:32 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event <snip> >I am telling you that the time tag for the video clip shows the >time accurately at least within a second of the thruster firing. >If you don't trust the time tags on the video there is nothing I >can do to convince you to use them. And I am telling you that the MCC clock shows the light flash occurring at least 3.8 seconds prior to the documented thruster firing if the MCC clock was correct. You don't seem to understand that the clock and the light flash event were in the same video sequence Challender recorded as events were unfolding. Any delay in video signal transmission means the light flash occurred earlier than that. If the delay is 3 seconds, then the light flash occurred 6.8 seconds before the thruster firing. There's no way, other than an error in the clock, that would make the flash occur after the thruster fired. >I know you have been interested in it. But the thing is that it >should be clear by now to you that no NASA video can ever prove >that there are TRUFOs. By "TRUFO", you seem to mean alien space ship. To me it means something that _might_ fit that category and for which all the mundane explanations have been ruled out. You've developed the annoying pseudoskeptic habit of telling me what I "want." Well, what I really want is for an ET craft to fly so close to the shuttle that you can see the pilot's tentacles waving at the camera. But that's unlikely to happen. What _has_ happened on several occasions is that objects have been imaged by the shuttle whose motions don't seem to fit the conventional explanations, regardless of how far they are from the orbiter. >What is needed is our own ground based independent UFO field >research which catches the kind of data we want and need rather >than hope NASA catches something they slip up on and share with >the public. There's already some of that sort of research. I'm all for it, even though the news media never takes it seriously. Everyone knows the mantra: produce a crashed flying saucer that "skeptics" can get their grubby little mits on personally or else forget about it. >I have the footage and it clearly rotates a couple times while >keeping a fixed bead on the Earth. I have seen this numerous >times in recent missions. If you're saying that you've already got the time-tagged video
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Entity In Thailand From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:39:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:24:19 -0400 Subject: Entity In Thailand Thai TV, today, reported on an entity seen in NW Thailand near Chieng Mai. The entity was seen near a rice farm by four or five people. It had a large head and a yellow body. The phantasm then stretched into the sky and disappeared. The news anchor called this a "jahn binh" or flying saucer.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Harrison From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:47:14 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:37:07 -0400 Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Harrison >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:47:22 -0300 >Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 03:45:40 EDT >>Subject: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron <snip> >>The most important issue for PRG is this: was Grant Cameron >>simply caught up in a new policy of strict enforcement or was he >>selected out for strict enforcement based upon some list used by >>Homeland Security. At this time it is impossible to know. >Basically what all of the above says is that if you are legal to >begin with you will be discriminately scrutinized. They are >taking the 'hard' line of least resistence. Hi Don & Stephen There is a list... Only months ago I was in the USA I had the correct paperwork. I wasn't there to do public speaking, just there to get married have a honeymoon - the usual stuff - meet people have a nice time. This was a visit I won't forget for a long time, the attention HS gave us on our arrival was '"over the top'. Our movement within the US was monitored. The only thing they didn't do when searching us was to get us to strip, but I came close to ripping my bra off on occasion because it kept setting off the detectors! ;) Underwires ya know. In LA, Homeland Security told us we were "on a list" and had to be given "special treatment" extensive searches yes _we_ were looked upon as a potential threat to the USA. Personally I think US homeland security is an absolute insult to the American way and US tourism industry feared HS would ultimately go too far, turning people off coming to the US. An article was written about this fact and published in one of the US newspapers, which I read while I was there in April. HS and their indignant, and yes, uneducated approach and treatment of visitors to the US is nothing other than disgusting. Is this what the American people want? >However, Homeland Security is powerless to stop the thousands of >Mexicans (and who else?) from crossing illegally into the United >States. For a second time, at LA airport, they searched my husband's wallet cut the lining open and, when returned, his drivers license was missing! This was inexcusable, they 'lost' it and didn't care. It was there before they looked and gone afterward. Some coincidence. Then I read, some days later, in one of the local Florida newspapers - which I have a copy of - an article stating "Mexicans are using stolen drivers licenses to enter the US"! >As the United States largest trading partner it will create a >hell of a mess if Canadian businessmen are going to be >targeted. One can only imagine the indignant hue and cry that >would be raised in the US if the shoe was on the other foot. >Americans should be careful returning to the states as well. >This could [and probably has] bite them on the butt. Yes Don, Americans should be careful, but if your on a 'list' there's nothing you can say or do that will make a difference other than you will be sent home - I guess I was lucky I wasn't
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 10 Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 05:26:26 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Hatch >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:08:10 EDT >Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:47:22 -0300 >>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron <snip> >I usually steer clear of these sorts of political discussions, >but this time I have to say something. Me too, but beer does amazing things to one's common sense. >First, another little story. When going through customs in >Kuwait, prior to returning home from Iraq, the customs agents >made me surrender my pocket knife and then let me onto the >aircraft, with my M-16, along with 200 other soldiers, with >their weapons. I'm sure the rationale was that they had been >told to take the knives away from people .. Maybe the Kuwaiti guard feared you might commandeer the plane and hi-jack it to Cuba. He was just covering his butt probably. Imagine the repercussions! Its good to see you back on this forum in any case, and not in Cuba (or wherever) brandishing your Swiss Al Qaida pocket knife. As for Grant Cameron, wasn't this a simple matter of Cameron coming here to earn money on a tourist visa? That's been against the rules since day one. If so, and unless I'm missing something (entirely likely [burp!]) then a lot of fuss has been generated over nothing. If fuss were power, the energy crisis would be ended. The word 'entropy' rings in my head.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Gottschall From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:30:32 +1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:35:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Gottschall >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:21:06 -0500 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 <snip> >The contactee movement >represents a mystical-religious response to the UFO phenomenon. >By now several books and a number of papers in professional >journals have examined the movement in that light. I have >contributed a paper to a Syracuse University Press book in >progress on that very subject. <snip> Hi Jerry, if you have the time can you give that to me in a nut-shell or do you have a similar paper on a web site somewhere? I've looked
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Brazilians Re-Open 'Operation Saucer' Investigation From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:14:41 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:45:43 -0400 Subject: Brazilians Re-Open 'Operation Saucer' Investigation The Brazilian UFO Magazine re-opens investigation of the military program, Operation Saucer, in the Amazon After a few days visiting the areas affected by the phenomena called 'chupa-chupa' (suck-suck) in the Amazon, Brazilian UFO Magazine has decided to re-open all files and procedures involved in the military program, Operation Saucer, conducted by the Brazilian Air Force in the area and recently made public on a partial basis. The magazine team concluded that there is much more info to be learned from the witnesses and victims of the 'chupa-chupa', which was generally a beam of light emitted from egg- and cylinder-shaped objects towards people in several locations of the jungle, extracting their blood. It is estimated that over 1,000 people where attacked, and at least 80+ have been examined by local physicians interviewed by the magazine team. Brazilian UFO Magazine has conducted new investigations on the islands of Colares and Mosqueiro, close to Belem, Para State=B4s capital. New, amazing reports from old and recent cases were obtained, and show a large variety of phenomena detail. The attacks have decreased, but still continue. It is largely known that the Brazilian Air Force conducted military, official investigations of the 'chupa-chupa' in the Amazon, that were kept secret until a few years ago, when info was published by Brazilian UFO Magazine. Some of the info of what was called 'Operation Saucer' was used in the magazine's campaign UFOs =96 Freedom of Information Now, which resulted in a partial opening of secret files in Brazil, last May 2005. Operation Saucer is the only known, and documented, military program officially designed to investigate UFOs in the world. The magazine team has huge evidence to support that the Brazilian Air Force is still keeping much of the results of the Operation Saucer secret, specially details of direct, close encounter that a few of its members had in the jungle with UFOs and their crews. There are clear signs of abduction of military personnel and its known, now, that high authorities in the Air Force had close knowledge of the facts. Because of all that, Brazilian UFO Magazine has started a new section called Amazon Dossier which will carry, in the next editions, full reports of new sightings and attacks, first-hand interviews with physicians, journalists, researchers and authorities, plus astonishing info from military undercover sources, all combined with on-site and updated info on both the 'chupa-chupa' and the Operation Saucer. Edition 114 of Brazilian UFO Magazine will be available in Portuguese after September 12, and in English 30 days later.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 06:40:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:48:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Hatch >From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:57:39 +1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:43:54 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:36:52 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>Kevin, >>You're lucky that Michael Horn doesn't monitor this List (I >>don't think he does, that is). He's been keeping track of the >>predictions/observations that Meier was given/shown on his >>primary space trip with the Plejarens. Here are some examples >>that fit in the category you ask for: >>"[Meier's] 115th Contact of Oct. 19th, 1978 >>http://www.theyfly.com/PDF/Horn_RingsofJupiter.pdf >>Jupiter possesses a ring, "much thinner and smaller than the other two around Saturn and Uranus" [Confirmed in March, 1979] >>"the largest portion of all the outward catapulted material >>[from the volcanoes of Io's moon] again falls back on Io, and >>practically covers all volcano openings again" >>Etc. >>Often, the confirmation of such predictions comes not too many >>weeks or months later, such that those unaware of the meticulous >>care Meier took to preserve his Contact Notes, honestly dated >>and unaltered, can claim backdating occurred. >I'm one of those unaware of this "meticulous care". Could you please explain the process? How can we be sure that this prediction predates the Voyager flyby in March 1979? >There are also some problems with the material Horn presents in >the PDF you link to. Firstly, Meier says (and Semjase confirms) >that Jupiter's ring (singular - clearly they were unaware that >Jupiter has multiple rings) "for the most part" consists of >material ejected from Io's volcanos. Horn claims this has been >verified - but the Galileo press release he cites concludes that >the rings are formed from dust kicked up from meteorite impacts >on Jupiter's four small inner moons. Not only is this different >to volcanic ejecta from Io, but Io is _not_ one of these moons >the press release refers to! These are Metis, Adrastea, Amalthea >and Thebe. Io would be one of the four _big_ inner moons.) See: > http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~sheppard/satellites/jupsatdata.html >Meier also refers to an egg-shaped moon, which he thinks was the >closest to Jupiter. Semjase tells him that this is Amalthea. >Well, it _was_ the closest known moon in 1978-9, before two >others were discovered from Voyager images, but not announced >until 1980 (Metis and Adrastea). >That will do for now. It really looks to me like a "prophecy" >concocted soon after the Voyager 1 flyby, using preliminary >results from the mission liberally larded with ill-founded >speculation that has not been borne out - contrary to Horn's >claims. But, if the prophecy could absolutely be shown to date >before March 1979, there would still be enough accurate material >in there to make it interesting. Hello Brett: At age nine, I prophesied I would attain age ten. There was a minor war going on at the time, I vaguely remember 'Korea' being mentioned, and I worried if 1955 (note the 55) might be somehow significant. As things turned out, Ike got re-elected and the presidency here was saved from the Democrats, who were never as bad as I was taught. (They don't eat worms or fart excessively in church etc.) As a _very_ former Roman Catholic, I look back with amazement at things which I once took for granted. What amazes me most of all, even now, is the ability of otherwise very sensible people, to take their best brains, and to throw them right out the window, because they simply dislike evident reality. There must be 100 ways to say this, and [burp!] I can't seem to find the right one. How about some aboriginal who discovers a mouse-trap? Spring loaded? No such thing. Must have been left behind by departing spirits.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:15:17 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:06:05 -0400 Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron - Ledger >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul>To: >ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:08:10 EDT >Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>To: >>ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:47:22 -0300 >>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>>From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul>To: >>>ufoupdates.nul Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 >>>03:45:40 EDT Subject: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>>PRG Paradigm Research Group Update - September 8, 2005 - >>>Grant Cameron >>>PRG has researched information relevant to the situation >>>regarding Grant Cameron being turned back at the border on >>>his way to speak at the Nation UFO Conference. >>>Conclusion: Homeland Security is instituting full >>>compliance with the laws, either across the board or on a >>>selective basis. It is well known that in the past >>>Canadians coming into the U.S. to do a little business or >>>work were not heavily scrutinized. >>>The most important issue for PRG is this: was Grant >>>Cameron simply caught up in a new policy of strict >>>enforcement or was he selected out for strict enforcement >>>based upon some list used by Homeland Security. At this >>>time it is impossible to know. >>Basically what all of the above says is that if you are >>legal to begin with you will be discriminately scrutinized. >>They are taking the 'hard' line of least resistence. >>However, Homeland Security is powerless to stop the >>thousands of Mexicans (and who else?) from crossing >>illegally into the United States. >>As the United States largest trading partner it will create >>a hell of a mess if Canadian businessmen are going to be >>targetted. One can only imagine the indignant hue and cry >>that would be raised in the US if the shoe was on the other >>foot. >>Americans should be careful returning to the States as well. >>This could [and probably has] bite them on the butt. Hello Kevin, >I usually steer clear of these sorts of political discussions, >but this time I have to say something. >First, another little story. When going through customs in >Kuwait, prior to returning home from Iraq, the customs agents >made me surrender my pocket knife and then let me onto the >aircraft, with my M-16, along with 200 other soldiers, with >their weapons. I'm sure the rationale was that they had been >told to take the knives away from people, but this really seemed >to be ridiculous. Yes, it does..... >Second, remember this isn't the people of the United States >causing these problems but bureaucrats who have no common >sense at all. Indirectly, the people of the United States cause us a lot of problems by having little or no knowlege of their largest trading partner [i.e. the largest pecentage of imported oil into the US comes from here - 16.8% - Saudi Arabia actually comes 4th]. They continually buy into their government's line without question, re conflicts that occur about trade. It's the beaver in bed with the buffalo-the 10% to 100% population ratio- This is in large part due to the information flow northward because of television and the movies. Most Canadians know a great deal about American politics and what is going on in your country while there is very little information about us trickling into the states. I receive the New York Times via the Net, and that paper floors me as to it's limited content and navel gazing, and it's extremely boring. Indeed many Americans think we have States or a President like they do and an uncomfortable percentage don't even know where we are located. This is not true in this odd field of ours, however. Most researchers of the phenomenon are very well versed in their geography. After 9/11 there was a terrorist caught going into the States out West, BC to Washington State, while another of the 9/11 terrorists was found to have come from here, and that made great news in the States and of course we then became - as far as the press was concerned - the wide open corridor for terrorists into the States. But there was little concern about the other eleven terrorists that somehow made it through America's own ports of entry on the East Coast and possibly through Mexico. Kevin you are as aware as I am about the mind set of many of these small-minded bureaucrats with a little power. The same happens here, where Canadian Customs agents are not permitted to carry weapons and, from what I've seen of them, there's good reason for that. But in Grant's case, if his plight showed/shows up in the American press - and it's likely too late now - the US Customs agent would come off as some kind of hero and Grant the bum. That Customs agent should know better since he lives in Canada. Canadians, on this List, will know what I'm talking about when I say that our lumber prices are going to go through the roof because of New Orleans and Louisiana, and a 30% duty is going to disappear for awhile. >I believe we have nothing to fear from Canadians with one >exception and you all can guess about who that is. Okay, it's >Celine Dion but that's another story. Yeah, we have Celine Dion, Kevin, but you folks are responsible for c'rap 'music'. That aside, beneath the covers, there's a thriving military fraternity - despite what most Americans and Canadians know. But you would be aware that Kevin. For instance, if a terrorist incident occurs in this country it will be because of our involvement in Afghanistan. BTW - There's a truly hilarious video availabe from CBC-TV. Most Canadians are aware of it but few Americans. It features Rick Mercer a Canadian comedian posing as a CBC roving reporter in the United States. He has people on the street congratulating Canadians for some of their latest laws-such as legallizing toasters, staplers and VCRs. A Dean at Princeton signs a petition which seeks to stop the Canadian Federal government from closing Canada's last university. My favorite is the other professor that signs a petition seeking to stop our Feds from putting our old people out on icefloes when they have outlived their usefullness. Hell we did away with that years ago:) Gotta go feed my sled dogs.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:31:46 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:52:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:47:57 -0500 >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:55:32 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >And I am telling you that the MCC clock shows the light flash >occurring at least 3.8 seconds prior to the documented thruster >firing if the MCC clock was correct. You don't seem to >understand that the clock and the light flash event were in the >same video sequence Challender recorded as events were >unfolding. Any delay in video signal transmission means the >light flash occurred earlier than that. If the delay is 3 >seconds, then the light flash occurred 6.8 seconds before the >thruster firing. There's no way, other than an error in the >clock, that would make the flash occur after the thruster fired. Based on your explanation, I might have misinterpreted the situation (again! since I think the same thing happened for the STS-48 video!). I will have to reexamine the thruster telemetry, location codes and timings and get back to you. >>I know you have been interested in it. But the thing is that it >>should be clear by now to you that no NASA video can ever prove >>that there are TRUFOs. >By "TRUFO", you seem to mean alien space ship. Actually, I mean alien or secret human space ship (not secret satellite... which are mostly mundane). >To me it means something that _might_ fit that category >and for which all the mundane explanations have been ruled out. Okay. >You've developed the annoying pseudoskeptic habit of telling >me what I "want." Its just conversation. Sorry if it offends. >Well, what I really want is for an ET craft to fly so close to the >shuttle that you can see the pilot's tentacles waving at the >camera. But that's unlikely to happen. You bet. >What _has_ happened on >several occasions is that objects have been imaged by the >shuttle whose motions don't seem to fit the conventional >explanations, regardless of how far they are from the orbiter. If this is good enough 'proof' for you, good for you. I need more than that. As far as I am concerned, dots of light that suddenly move near the times of thruster firings are not good enough. I don't need see tentacles, but _any_ structure would be great. If you observe the Soyuz (or STS) approaching/departing from ISS, or various subsatellite releases, or various external tanks footages, you can see that it doesn't take long for the object to become a bright dot with no clear structure. For a structured alien craft to be on video would mean it would have to be very close. I just don't think such data would be released by NASA or the government. There are many satellite observers out there with automated telescopes looking at known satellites (and Shuttle and ISS). They love finding unidentifieds (as they call them). They are challenged to explain them in terms of real mundane satellites (or debris or meteors). They never report any unidentifieds that zip at an angle suddenly to a satellite under observation. Maybe there is a peer pressure in such groups to avoid reporting such weird things though. Still, even with peer pressure, I think, given the excellent satellite video recording capabilities available to amateur observers, then some footage would be "leaked" without attribution. >>What is needed is our own ground based independent UFO field >>research which catches the kind of data we want and need rather >>than hope NASA catches something they slip up on and share >> with the public. >There's already some of that sort of research. I'm all for it, >even though the news media never takes it seriously. Everyone >knows the mantra: produce a crashed flying saucer that >"skeptics" can get their grubby little mits on personally or >else forget about it. I think the issue is that WE don't want to go to our graves waiting for a resolution to this phenomena. Waiting for "disclosure" or "NASA proof" means waiting forever and whatever we get will not be for "Truth" but more for their own self interest. Thus, I like Kyle King's (and others) idea of field research labs. If I had a chunk of money I would certainly have a shot at it. Whether anyone else would believe my results would be unimportant to me. All that would be important is that I could prove to myself that TRUFOs exist. Of course, such methodology offers itself well to corraboration (with nearby other labs). On-line Internet monitoring of results would be great, with a subscriber fee hopefully to help buy more stations and equipment. We really don't need a crashed saucer or alien body if we can track the damn things into or out of orbit. >If you're saying that you've already got the time-tagged video >sequence from NASA, then you must have some really good >connections there. It usually takes the FOIA office 4 to 6 weeks >to fill a request for a video tape. You seem to have gotten the >tape in the 4 days since I posted the first message on the STS-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:25:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:55:31 -0400 Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Clark >From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:47:14 +1000 >Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:47:22 -0300 >>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>>From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 03:45:40 EDT >>>Subject: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >Only months ago I was in the USA I had the correct paperwork. I >wasn't there to do public speaking, just there to get married >have a honeymoon - the usual stuff - meet people have a nice >time. >This was a visit I won't forget for a long time, the attention >HS gave us on our arrival was '"over the top'. Our movement >within the US was monitored.... >In LA, Homeland Security told us we were "on a list" and had to >be given "special treatment" extensive searches yes _we_ were >looked upon as a potential threat to the USA. Diane, as an American, I offer you my most sincere condolences, not to mention my deepest outrage. The problem is that the government of my country has fallen into the hands of cronies, cretins and criminals who are adept at starting unjustified wars, trashing the environment, enriching the rich, impoverishing the poor, making the U.S. the most hated nation on the face of the planet, and - oh, yeah, by the way - harassing innocent travelers to this once friendly and welcoming nation. It will be small comfort to you to know that innocent citizens get harassed, too. One thing these jackasses can't do, though, is to deal with emergencies and catastrophes that aren't part of their careful little script - thus, the catastrophically sluggish response to Katrina's depredations. Again, as an American, I apologize from the bottom of my heart. I never in my life imagined that I would be ashamed to be an American, but I am now. I assure you that I voted for none of them, actively worked against them, and look forward to doing both again next year during our mid-term Congressional
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 16:01:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:57:03 -0400 Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Clark >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 05:26:26 -0700 >Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:08:10 EDT >>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:47:22 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron >As for Grant Cameron, wasn't this a simple matter of Cameron coming here to earn money on a tourist visa? That's been against the rules since day one. If so, and unless I'm missing something (entirely likely [burp!]) then a lot of fuss has been generated over nothing. Larry, I assume you're joking, if not especially amusingly this time. Either that, or it's the beer. I've traveled other countries to do exactly what Grant Cameron did, and I've made money, and it's never been a problem. I hope people continue to raise a fuss about this lousy episode. That's what they do in democracies, and if ours is hardly in the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Meier's Contact Reports [was: Exopolitics From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:30:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:01:56 -0400 Subject: Meier's Contact Reports [was: Exopolitics >From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:57:39 +1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:43:54 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:36:52 EDT >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 <snip> >>Often, the confirmation of such predictions comes not too many >>weeks or months later, such that those unaware of the meticulous >>care Meier took to preserve his Contact Notes, honestly dated >>and unaltered, can claim backdating occurred. >I'm one of those unaware of this "meticulous care". Could you >please explain the process? Wendelle Stevens is the one who looked most into all this, back in 1978-1980. As one indication, he learned that Meier had complained to Semjase that in transmitting the word-for-word Contact Notes for him to record a day later by automatic writing, or automatic typing, she had sometimes left out certain portions of the dialog; later Meier was informed they were doing this for his own good (in Stevens, Supplementary Investigation Report, p. 60). Meier's Contact Reports consistently show his concern for the truth, in a manner that is realistic and sincere. As one example I recall, at one point he asked Semjase for permission to go back and make a correction in an earlier report where he had written "Million" instead of "Milliarde" (milliard = billion). He was meticulous in reporting the correct hour of each contact as well the correct date. Again, you'd have to call a lot of witnesses liars to claim Meier didn't have real contacts. E.g., see: www.tjresearch.info/witnessa.htm . >How can we be sure that this >prediction predates the Voyager flyby in March 1979? That flyby was at its closest on March 5th. On March 9th Stevens obtained a copy of that Contact 115 Report and read the predictions in it, and he showed it to two trusted (and named) friends. (in Stevens' _Preliminary Investigation Report_ p. 88). The time necessary for news to get out about Jupiter's ring(s) and Io, etc., combined with the time necessary for Stevens to have obtained a copy of the Report, makes it quite improbable that the report could have postdated March 5th. But perhaps not absolutely impossible; I don't know if Stevens was over in Switzerland around then or not. Thus I'd say the possibility of alteration of the date would probably not apply here. Other prophecies Meier was told on Oct. 19, 1978 and got recorded in his report the next day include the Jonestown massacre (of Nov. 18th, 1978), and the overthrow of the Shah of Iran in February, 1979. Those who are in Meier's FIGU group know there's no way he could alter the date of a contact appreciably, because the core group was allowed to read these reports not too long afterwards, at least by 1978, according to core member Hans-Georg Lanzendorfer. Also because they were serially numbered and occurred on average of once or twice a month, and because they often referred back to the previous report, or spoke of future dates. In the report of the Oct. 19th contact, for example, much discussion ensues as to why Meier didn't show up at a planned contact a month or so previously. It had been nearly two full months since his last contact meeting (of Aug. 24th, 1978), which was an unusually large hiatus. And there's mention of something that would not be completed until the 2nd or 3rd of November (1978). Meier's question to Semjase of whether the Voyager-I, already then enroute, would obtain good results at Jupiter, is consistent with the Oct. 19th date; the query is not in any way "suspicious" if you read it and compare with a couple hundred of his other Contact Reports. >There are also some problems with the material Horn presents in >the PDF you link to. Firstly, Meier says (and Semjase confirms) >that Jupiter's ring (singular - clearly they were unaware that >Jupiter has multiple rings) "for the most part" consists of >material ejected from Io's volcanos. Perhaps being just a brief mention of it, it was spoken of as Jupiter's ring like one might speak of Saturn's ring. Otherwise, Jupiter has just the one main ring, which is what Meier likely referred to, the other two being exceedngly faint, gossamer rings in comparison. >Horn claims this has been >verified - but the Galileo press release he cites concludes that >the rings are formed from dust kicked up from meteorite impacts >on Jupiter's four small inner moons. Not only is this different >to volcanic ejecta from Io, but Io is _not_ one of these moons >the press release refers to! These are Metis, Adrastea, Amalthea >and Thebe. Io would be one of the four _big_ inner moons.) See: >http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~sheppard/satellites/jupsatdata.html >Meier also refers to an egg-shaped moon, which he thinks was the >closest to Jupiter. Semjase tells him that this is Amalthea. >Well, it _was_ the closest known moon in 1978-9, before two >others were discovered from Voyager images, but not announced >until 1980 (Metis and Adrastea). It looks like Meier was 'had' on that one, on Amalthea. Semjase must have known better. Or, I'd say, she would have been remiss if she hadn't mixed in a certain amount of plausible deniability - for those skeptics to latch onto who don't want ETI to be smarter than we are. I hope you don't think that it's "convenient" that ETI would have a strategy of dealing with us. >That will do for now. It really looks to me like a "prophecy" >concocted soon after the Voyager 1 flyby, using preliminary >results from the mission liberally larded with ill-founded >speculation that has not been borne out - contrary to Horn's >claims. But, if the prophecy could absolutely be shown to date >before March 1979, there would still be enough accurate material >in there to make it interesting. I don't think ETI wanted to deliver absolute proof to us. Check
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 509th Bomb Wing Pease AFB & The Hills From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:04:51 +0200 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:06:22 -0400 Subject: 509th Bomb Wing Pease AFB & The Hills Reading about the history of the 509th at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/roswell031.html I noticed the following: "The wing also received a new home toward the end of the 1950s when it moved its people and equipment to Pease AFB, N.H., in August 1958. There, the wing continued to function as an integral part of SAC. By 1965, SAC scheduled the B-47s for retirement. Unfortunately, this retirement also included the 509th. Fate intervened, however, as SAC decided to keep the 509th alive and equipped it with B-52s and KC-135s. Thus, the wing received its first B-52 and KC-135 in March 1966." Was not Pease AFB, N.H. the Air Force Base nearest to the place
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Entity In Thailand - Hayes From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:56:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:09:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Entity In Thailand - Hayes >From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:39:35 -0700 >Subject: Entity In Thailand >Thai TV, today, reported on an entity seen in NW Thailand >near Chieng Mai. The entity was seen near a rice farm by >four or five people. It had a large head and a yellow body. >The phantasm then stretched into the sky and >disappeared. The news anchor called this a "jahn binh" or >flying saucer. >I searched The Bangkok Post and Googled but no joy. (Apologies for the delay in posting this but I'm behind with my mail) Hi Terry, Not much more to add to your report but I received the following on September 9th: --- Hello, I just searched for our hot news about alien sighting in northern part of my country (Thailand), just got your web from search pages. It's very interesting :) I don't know if you already know this, but yesterday (or before yesterday; 8th - 9th Sep) there were a crowd of people in a village (The name is "Ban...(something)". It's in ChiangRai province, northern part of Thailand.. Interestingly I've just known that there was UFO sighting in ChiangMai province in 2001 too.. Actually these provinces are close.) The alien was there for an hour and most of people there saw it! Then, the alien guy floated up and disappeared in the air. I don't know much about the detail but just see the news in TV. Hope this could be a help... Ruxo --- Best wishes, John Hayes webmaster.nul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:17:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:14:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:30:56 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:55:31 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? <snip> >"As far as we know" doesn't prove anything. There are lots of >things that I don't know with any certainty, or Ed doesn't know, >but they happen anyway whether we know it or not. Hi David, If we research a subject and try to find out all that is known, for sure, then"as far as we know" means that we've reached the limits of our knowledge. I realize that there may be information that is missing or unknown, but as far as we know there has never been any light speed travel. There may be light speed travel, but as far as we know there isn't any evidence that it has taken place. >It is quite possible there are people within the government who >do know with certainty even if we outsiders do not. Yes that's true but not what I'm talking about. "Quite possible" seems far more unscientific than "as far as I know". >If there >have been crash recoveries with bodies recovered having >physiology and biochemistry so remarkably different than >anything else here on earth that they couldn't have evolved >here, then they would establish with certainty that the beings >and their ships were extraterrestrial. That would mean they >either come from other stellar systems in our known universe or >from some other universe. Either way, they would not be of this >earth. Maybe you could tell me where I might find one of these bodies. The only bodies I'm familiar with are the AA creatures and while their physiology seems similar in some ways to humans, we have no way to measure the biochemistry from film footage. We can't rely on the MJ12 documents for any information regarding either the physiology and biochemistry. >This is no different than standard skeptic or debunker denial >that UFOs are not real and therefore do cannot be evidence of >possible star travel. Ed doesn't deny UFOs are real, but has >this strange notion that the beings piloting them must orginally >have evolved on earth. Again how he deduces all this and assert >all the things he does with such certainty remains a bit of a >mystery to me. There shouldn't be any mystery. I base my assertions on my very close examination of the AA creature and the small amount of debris footage. It's a matter of extrapolation. >Despite Ed's naysaying, NASA has a small research effort right >now devoted to possible interstellar propulsion systems. This >was started during the reign of previous NASA director Dan >Golden, who set a goal of launching a small interstellar probe >within the next 40 years. That's interesting. At what speed will the probe travel? >>>The notion that travel between the stars isn't possible is flat >>>out ridiculous. I worked on fusion propulsion sytems in the >>>early 1960s... able to eject charged particles having 10 million >>>times as much energy per particle as in a dumb old chemical >>>rocket. No we haven't done it yet, We hadn't gone to the moon >>>in 1925 either nor flown in 1900. >>I have no doubt that eventually science will develop vehicles >>that are able to travel at tremendous velocities. But here's >>the problem as I see it. In order to travel from star to star, >>these star-craft must travel at the speed of light (186,000 >>miles per second) and I just don't think that will ever be >>possible. >This is utter nonsense. Why would it be necessary to travel at >literal light speed? Why not sublight speed? >By Ed's logic, travel between city A and city B is impossible >unless one uses the space shuttle, instead of something slower >like a plane or car. >Sublight travel at 10% or 20% of light speed would still be >quite adequate to move between adjacent stars. It would just >take longer than light-speed or faster-than-light speed. But >this could still be accomplished in a variety of ways. Here's the problem as I see it: Water molecules which make up 95% of all life, break their chemical bonds at just a little above .02 of the speed of light, or 5100 miles per second. Isn't that a little slow for star travel? See: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x23.htm "You can do this until the speed of the molecules is so high that they break each other's chemical bonds when they collide. To find out how fast this is, we compare energies: the energy of a typical chemical bond is about 400 kJ/mol, for example the O-H bond energy in water is 467 kJ/mol. When the average kinetic energy of the molecules reaches this point, then a typical collision liberates enough energy to break the bond. Kinetic energy is related to speed via E_k = m/2 v^2, where m is the molar mass of the molecule and v is the velocity. Suppose we accelerate water, with its molar mass of 18 g/mol. Then the maximum speed is given roughly by (note that 1 J = 1 kg m^2/s^2): 467,000 J/mol = 0.018 kg/mol (v_max in m/s)^2. Hence v_max = 5100 m/s..." >>>Let us not forget that we have only had "sophisticated" >>>technology for about 100 years. Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli >>>just down the street 39 light years away are a billion years >>>older than the sun. >>So? Do you think that a billion years lead time has given the >>Zetas a head start? That isn't the way evolution works, or >>trilobites would rule the world. >Did trilobites have the necessary ingredients to build a >technological civilization, such as big brains, good vision, >something like opposable thumbs, ability to build fire and smelt >metals (try doing that underwater!), etc., etc. The analogy is >ridiculous. Maybe trilobites weren't the best example. But my point is correct. Billions of years doesn't mean a thing as far as evolution is concerned. And we do know that once life starts, it can be extinguished overnight. I was trying to show that a head start and lots of time doesn't necessarily guarantee evolutionary success. You have absolutely no way of knowing if there are other beings outside of our own solar system. As I told Stan, I have no problem if you have faith that there is other life in the universe or ghosts or other dimensions, etc, or all the baloney that 98% of humans believe. It's not my cup of tea. >Conversely, Ed talks below about his AA being having evolved >here, being a monotreme (i.e. non-placental mammal), looking >like us because of convergent evolution, and being much more >advanced than us because their civilization might be as much as >100 million years older than ours. Aside from the question of >how he deduced all this, he is not exactly being consistent in >his arguments. All Stan was saying is that some nearby >civlization could have achieved interstellar travel and be here >because they had a head-start of millions of years. And I think Stan has no reason to believe that or any evidence that he might be correct. I use the AA creature and the debris to deduce "all this". >>Humans have evolved their >>technologies, and taken these technological skills about as >>far as they can. >Yet another amazing statement from Ed, based on what exactly? >Various scientists have been proclaiming the "death of science," >i.e., the end of any new science, for over 200 years, and yet >something new always seems to comes along. Why is this so amazing? I said "about as far" as we can go. I'm very aware of nanotechnology and have written about it on this list. But even that won't take us to the stars because we're still dealing with the limitations of molecular design. Molecules cannot become light. >Yes, _possibly_ there will come a point where the technology >becomes so advanced that technological innovation will basically >cease, but based on our own experience here on planet earth, I >haven't seen any evidence of that happening here yet, not even >remotely close. Instead technological innovation is happening so >fast in so many fields that even the experts can't keep up with >it and are forced to specialize. Yes and that is a serious problem and another issue. But we essentially agree: at some point "advanced that technological innovation will basically cease". >Again Ed isn't exactly consistent with his arguments. He is >saying that humans have hit a dead end technologically, but not >his AA monotremes, who would seem to be way more advanced than >us with their flying machines and ability to conceal themselves >from us. I think the monotreme civilization is at the point where technological innovation has basically ceased. They have mastered nanotechnology, with its many advanced features, but still seem primative in other ways. They don't seem to understand us. >Where exactly are they supposed to be living? I think they have bases on earth, under the ocean but I doubt they're limited. They could be living anywhere in the solar system. >>Nanotechnology, the science of the future will certainly improve >>our chances of visiting the outer reaches of our solar system. >>but never the stars. And you have no evidence that it will. >And Ed has no evidence to the contrary, just more overreaching >assertions based on faulty reasoning. I do have very convincing evidence. Molecules can't travel anywhere near the speed that is needed for successful star travel. Molecules seem to be essential for matter to express itself. We live in a molecular universe. There might be a parallel universe, built on good intentions, where star travel is common, but not in our mundane, molecular corner of the world. <snip> >>... I drove five hours to bring you a sample >>of the cristobalite from the AA crash site and you didn't >>even thank me. And there is still no evidence that you've read >>any of Corso's book. And I know you've never read my article >>on the AA crash site and probably not Wendy's either. I'm not >>basing my negative opinion regarding star travel on "launch >>weight" but on what science knows about molecular machines. >>There are limits to technology. But love might find a way. >I'm going to overlook more of Ed's questionable statements here >and instead talk about his crash site near Socorro. >Wendy Connor's took me out to Ed's site last April and I've been >negligent in reporting on my impressions. >I think the most >interesting and anomalous part of it was the long row of damaged >trees that were burned _on top_, and not from underneath, as one >would expect from a brush fire. This is also a very arid area >with little vegetation, so how the charring on top occurred is a >bit of a mystery. How can something be a "bit" of a mystery? The reason this row of walnut trees show burn marks on their topsides and not underneath is because the heat source came from above. Where is the mystery to that? >There is also some rock scorching, but the >pattern seemed more haphazard to me. A brush and forest fire >expert would probably be needed to evaluate the unusual >scorching patterns and see if there were a plausible explanation >for them. The rock sourcing is extensive and not at all "haphazard" but it follows the tree-line and path of the other fire related clues. I agree that another fire expert, besides the one who has already visited the site, would be valuable. >I was not that impressed with the mineral deposits that Ed puts >so much stock in. I certainly do not think, as Ed does, that >they were in molten form and somehow splattered down from >above by a crashing saucer. David didn't walk the entire perimeter of the site, which has to happen if one is to understand how the cristobalite is distributed. >Instead, they looked completely natural to me, even if the >mineral cristabolite is rare in large crystalline form. David doesn't know the desert or understand mineral deposits so I excuse his ignorance. Cristobalite is _never_ found covering the ground in the manner at the site. Never! It is only found in association with obsidian or other highly heated minerals and then only in very small (pinhead) quantities. There is only one explanation for the cristobalite at the site: it fell from above. >For one >thing, splattered molten rock would be loosely adherent to >whatever it landed on once it cooled. You should find splatter >samples on the sand here and there. Yes there are many examples of sand splatter. You didn't see them. I've shown them to Wendy and Joe and my brother has a great sample. >But everything I saw was >always on substrate rocks and tightly adherent, just as one >would expect had the crystals slowly grown there. The substrate rocks are all volcanic ash and could never have formed the cristobalite which is only found in highly heated rocks. Cristobalite is silica that has been heated to 1500 C. Again it is NEVER found under these conditions. >On one sample, >the crystals were growing into a small fissure in the rock. A >splatter wouldn't do that. Some material was splattered, and some just fell in concentrated form. The fall was inconsistent. In some areas the cristobalite is much thicker than other areas but I agree that it is found in fissures. >I found some rocks with the crystals >underneath, not on top, Many of the rocks have been disturbed by severe flash floods and grazing cows and hunters, etc. >and one large rock buried in the soil >where the crystalline surface extended some distance under the >soil (I dug down several inches, and the underlying rock and >crystal extended beyond where I dug). The earth has been moved around by flooding and wind storms. It has changed from month to month since I've been visiting. >None of this is consistent >with molten material splattered from above. >Another thing is that splattered molten material would have >cooled quickly as it fell through the air and landed on rocks >and sand below. It would not have formed large crystals, which >grow very slowly, over a period of years or centuries, not >minutes or hours or days. Cooled lava, e.g., does not form >crystals, except maybe very, very tiny ones you would need a >microscope to see. This does not make sense to me. Cristobalite is cristobalite. I don't understand what you mean by "large crystals". I think you must be talking abut another mineral common to the site: desert rose. This could be confused with the cristobalite and is common to the site. >Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes. Let's assume the >alien autopsy was the real thing and the cameraman was for real >and describing the actual crash site. If he described the >crystalline deposits on the rocks, they could be natural, >couldn't they. No! They could not be natural. Cristobalite doesn't form naturally under these conditions. >Why create some strange theory of the saucer >sucking up the sand, melting it, and then splattering it around? Because that's the only way for cristobalite to arrive at the site. There is absolutely no geologic explanation that would account for deposits of cristobalite of this quantity or quality. >>>>We should work with what we have and what we know for sure >>>>and the simplest explanation possible: we share our planet and >>>>the solar system with at least one other civilization. >Not so simple, if you assume the other civilization somehow >arose from earth. What evidence exists to show that they were >ever here, like their bones or remains of their civilization? >Where are they hiding now? Inside hollow Earth? On Planet X? >Let's get a little bit sensible here. As I said before, right now they could live anywhere. As for the remains of their civilization, it is probably under Antarctica. Monotremes evolved while the earth had only one continent and much of that is now under water or ice. I wouldn't expect to find traces of their civilization since they don't seem to want us to know. ><snip> >>...I maintain that the creature in the AA is an evolved >>monotreme from a civilization that could be as much as 100 >>million years older than our civilization. She is a mammal and >>through convergent evolution has become humanoid. This >>civilization is limited and vulnerable but technologically >>superior to us. I could go on but you get the point. >Unfortunately, Ed's case is almost entirely supposition, so he >is in no position to be casting stones at Stan's theories (which >seem much more plausible to me). We don't know if the AA film is >for real. Ed assumes it's for real and the being depicted there >for real and not human. I know that the creature is not human, just as anyone who spent any time looking at the AA would conclude. >He then further jumps to the conclusion >that the being must have evolved here using screwy reasoning >about why interstellar travel would be impossible. Where is your evidence that it is possible? Aren't we dealing with evidence? >conclusion jumping continues with the AA creature being a >monotreme, i.e., marsupials like the duck-billed platypus. I >guess he deduces that solely from the AA being not having a >navel (and maybe nipples, though even marsupials have nipples >somewhere), but neither necessarily would a rubber dummy or >surgerically/cosmetically altered human. The AA creature isn't a rubber dummy or altered human which should be very clear to anyone who looks closely. I theorize monotreme origins because the creature has no navel, no teeth, no nipples we can see, and only one hole. I could be wrong but the evolutionary time line also works out to indicate my conclusions might be correct. I've explored all the earthly possibilities, and evolved monotremes seem to be the best choice. >This doesn't mean Ed is necessarily wrong about the AA being for >real or for having found the crash site. I'm still intrigued by >the peculiar scorched trees. I think a modest investment further >investigating Ed's site is warranted. A good place to start >might be in dating the year the trees were scorched, which could >be done with tree ring analysis. If the date were other than >1947, then that would be the end of the matter right there >concerning any association with the AA film. Yes, the site needs further investigation. Tree ring analysis
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 09:51:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:18:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Clark >From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:30:32 +1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:21:06 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 <snip> >>The contactee movement represents a mystical-religious >>response to the UFO phenomenon. By now several books and a >>number of papers in professional journals have examined the >>movement in that light. I have contributed a paper to a Syracuse >>University Press book in progress on that very subject. >if you have the time can you give that to me in a nut-shell or >do you have a similar paper on a web site somewhere? I've looked >for other links but can't find any by anyone. Now you've got me >curious. Hi, Sheryl, I have written about the origins of the contactee movement in my UFO Encyclopedia and also on the careers of specific contactees. Adamski gets particularly detailed treatment there. The paper to appear in the Syracuse UP book deals with the career of contactee Dorothy Martin ("Marian Leach" in When Prophecy Fails, the most famous published book on contactees [University of Minnesota Press, 1956]). Her career as contactee lasted four decades. An excellent introduction to the subject is the late David Stupple's "Historical Links Between the Occult and Flying Saucers," Journal of UFO Studies 5 (new series, 1994): 93-108. JUFOS is available through CUFOS, as you may know. My friend J. Gordon Melton, the prominent religious-studies scholar (at the University of California at Santa Barbara), has written about the movement in various of his works, though he has never written a single book on the subject. Years ago he helped me get a broader perspective on contactees than as - in the dismissive view of many ufologists - crooks or crazies. Yes, some are crooked, and some are crazy, but not all; what's going on is the continuation of an occult-religious tradition
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 11 Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:09:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:25:09 -0400 Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Clark >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:15:17 -0300 >Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron <snip> >BTW - There's a truly hilarious video availabe from CBC-TV. >Most Canadians are aware of it but few Americans. It features >Rick Mercer a Canadian comedian posing as a CBC roving reporter >in the United States. >He has people on the street congratulating Canadians for some >of their latest laws-such as legallizing toasters, staplers and >VCRs. >A Dean at Princeton signs a petition which seeks to stop the >Canadian Federal government from closing Canada's last >university. >My favorite is the other professor that signs a petition >seeking to stop our Feds from putting our old people out on >icefloes when they have outlived their usefullness. Hell we did >away with that years ago:) Don, Canadians needn't take it personally. Americans are among the most ignorant and uniformed people on earth, in my experience as a longtime observer of my fellow citizens. That's why they get the leaders they deserve. A couple of examples: (1) A few months ago my wife and I and a handful of other locals were playing a board game which tests one knowledge of mostly trivial factoids. In the course of same, one player expressed the remarkable view that "Israel is somewhere near Guatemala." (2) Several years ago a local friend and I were tossing down a few at the local VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) post. The VFW is, of course, a center of tub-thumbing patriotism, where a flag is waved at the drop of a hat and attestations of deeper-love- of-country than everybody else's are affirmed at the blink of an eye. My friend and I figured that if these guys love America so much, we would find out if they knew when one of the two most significant events in our history (the other being the founding of the republic) had occurred. So we did a survey of the 20 or so vets sitting along the bar. Only of them, who happened to be a retired high-school history teacher, knew when the Civil War had been fought (1861-1865). The rest were clueless. Guesses ranged from the 1700s to the 20th Century. Startling numbers of our fellow citizens, even a majority in some polls, do not believe that human beings evolved from apelike animals. They believe that Homo sapiens was created, as Genesis says, out of mud into the human form we now know. A significant plurality believes the sun revolves around the earth. I run into people all the time whose social and political views are shaped by anonymous, unsourced e-mail forwards, regaling assorted manipulative yarns intended to get them riled up about some wildly improbable thing or another. And so on and so on. So, Don, to repeat: it's nothing personal.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:43:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:20:12 -0400 Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Reynolds >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:09:28 -0500 >Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:15:17 -0300 >>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron ><snip> >Don, >Canadians needn't take it personally. Americans are among the >most ignorant and uniformed people on earth, in my experience as >a longtime observer of my fellow citizens. That's why they get >the leaders they deserve. <snip> And Jerry... to confirm your observation: One of our fellows was told by the commander of a military installation in Battle Creek (last week) that people from the town were throwing bottles of water over the fence because they heard the evacuees who arrived there needed water. The commander was stunned by the ignorance. Battle Creek was replete with water as was his base. But nonethless the rabble thought that the lack of water in New Orleans has carried over to Battle Creek. The great unwashed (booboisie as H.L. Mencken tagged them) are a sorry lot, who vote into office the blaggarts who continue to ruin the ideals of America as conceived by
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: UFO UpDate: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Miller From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 17:57:41 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:23:41 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Miller >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:09:28 -0500 >Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:15:17 -0300 >>Subject: Re: PRG Update - 9/8/05 - Grant Cameron ><snip> >Don, >Canadians needn't take it personally. Americans are among the >most ignorant and uniformed people on earth, in my experience >as a longtime observer of my fellow citizens. That's why they >get the leaders they deserve. Jerry, While I find your self-appraisement searingly accurate and also refreshing, and I cannot argue for one second with any of the points you make, it is necessary to redress the balance slightly. If you think that your country has the monopoly on deranged, ignorant citizens who don't know where their own back yard is let alone where Wales might be, then you will be disappointed. _Every_ country has large dollops of its population who can barely tell the time or remember their own names. And yet it is a fact that when it comes to this sort of criticism - of inwardness, disinterest in the rest of the world etc. America seems to cop for most of it. I have certainly made more than my fair share of digs at the good 'ol U.S. of A but when I ask myself why, I come to the following conclusion; I love the place. Sure it's leader stinks, it's patriotism stinks, it's gun laws stink, it's political self-interest stinks and yet amongst all that is a truly beautiful country filled with a people with a special spirit and in the main, a friendly and hospitable outlook. The reason why people are so critical of America is because they love it and they want it to do better - to be perfect. So when it isn't, they feel let down. And more appropriately - no America, no Ufology.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Earth From Orbit From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:22:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:49:17 -0400 Subject: Earth From Orbit Earth from Orbit... by Alfred Lehmberg Join me in Earth's orbit. Take a moment from your day. The Earth's adrift in starlight... sun and comets holding sway. The stars are bright in brilliant night, as keen and sharp as knives, below the 'man' completes small plans... but his motives are contrived... Out here? Far suns make bracelets of a woman's shadowed form. They outline shapes in curvy norms unconfined and non-conformed. These don't diminish happiness, they are the stuff of you, and of them lives a consciousness that your conscience knows is true. See? You _are_ your brother's keeper as you watch a blue Earth spin. You are part of something wholesome, if you question where you've been. The Earth is living, breathing... you can see its respiration. The clouds pump living water... there really is no question. Now to men... the pompous fly-specks who conspire on her skin. These paint themselves creation's lords but know not where they've been. These pump their toxins endlessly in their programmed obsolescence. They spin welcomed lies to sheeples... who are fawning acquiescence. They mewl and whine their dogma, these white-bread men of note. Entrenched in what's 'convenient' they have our future by its throat. The Earth is being poisoned, say EVERY ONE of my professors, but still we buy the boat, that car... and mimic Earth's oppressor. Go back in time... 3000 years, the period of Chuck's comet. Excuse time slop, it's not the point... (misdirection makes me vomit...). See Earth without that brownish tinge? See it healthy, green... abundant? See the belts of life's diversity, all her biospheres verdant? See how life renews herself? She can spring back from an asteroid! But lately we have made her ill, and made ourselves her hemorrhoid. We four wheel down her shifting sides, we butchered bison herds... We 'developed' needed marshlands, our demise is undeterred. ...And the watching folks from 'outside' are, in deep, dismayed, distress. They continue observation. They record our sad excess. They get it all, and we will find - with its contents shared, perchance, how wrong we were, short sighted... mean... how we blew our every chance. We'll know regret, not now... but then... at blowing opportunities... at mixing up priority, and destroying our communities....If you'd do unto others what you'd have done unto you? You would in fact be smarter and much happier. That's true. See, because you must insult the Earth with your single serving cola? She's struck back with the AIDS, mon fre're, and afflicts us with Ebola! We're not, remotely, needed for inclusion in her plans; she'd knock us from our perches on our pompous flaccid cans! Man, 'big and strong', just thinks he knows... or even understands, and then believes that he can thwart, or ignore his very glands! He thinks he has, indeed, worked out... the physics of his Gods, but he's, I'd bet, decieved himself... and is, in fact, a clod. "It's the age of information"!...Best be humble... "Man has found his place... Creation's crown"!...Oh, please... "Man's mastered his environment"!...Feel a searing wince of shame! "Hail the glory of the Human"!...Then be shoved to humble knees! Remember that's below in this Earth that we can orbit. This planet of water, alive and aware. And what are we, really, but self-aware water. Water that hurts... when not water that's shared. Water that reaches to inky black skies; water that would move off of this rock. Water that mixes its oils and then paints; water with talent to take its own stock! See? We are naught but water that has orbited its skies! We can do the righter thing - be a Watcher's glad surprise. We can spend the money used to pedicure our feet to raise folks up in learning... and improve our human breed! alienview.nul www.AlienView.net AVG Blog - http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/ The entire globe would benefit if incandescent light bulbs, if not outlawed altogether, were nailed with a heavy usage tax... Move over, completely, to fluorescent... Power availability would increase (no more brownouts), prices would go down (...the meter-masters freak out, the real problem...)... and 30,000 starving children might get a god-damned bowl of rice with a textbook, instead of slipping miserably into their welcomed deaths every day of _our_ pampered lives. This is forgetting current atrocities we are abundantly capable of dealing with, and don't. Just heard this on CNN. Americans spend 6 BILLION dollars a year on 'diets' that DO NOT WORK. I'm not being funny when I say this is the kind of thing keeping the saucers away... Mike Malloy (http://www.whiterosesociety.org/Malloy.html) is calling these aforementioned unadmitted atrocities "refugees from genocide." It can't happen here?...It's happened here. Thousands of lives lost as a result of indifference, sloth, complacency, sociopathy, ignorance, cronyism, religiosity, intolerance, general insentience, corruption, institutional infidelity, graft and outright thievery... but plain old ornery and mean-spirited CRAFT, reader... And that's just in the top tier of the current 'administration'... such as it is. This was no accident... this was a bid to clear all the "niggers and queers" out of a blue hotspot and turn the city into another red-winged Miami. It's ethnic cleansing, folks. Where has 40 billion a year for 4 years today, gone, with regard to homeland *security*? Do we know these men by their fruit, yet, reader? Impeach and try for treason/war crimes... both, without
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:28:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:50:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:31:46 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event <snip> >Got it ages ago. Did I ever suggest I didn't? I suggested that >YOU get a time tagged copy of the video. But since you don't >trust the time tags, there is no point.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Bring Your Best UFO Evidence/Proof - Cohen From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 16:17:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:57:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Bring Your Best UFO Evidence/Proof - Cohen >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:13:21 EDT >Subject: Bring Your Best UFO Evidence/Proof >I was thinking after reading several recent posts about >evidence/proof and history. >With Mr. Klass gone I'm sure a new crop of debunkers will arise. >We should be ready for them. >May I be so bold as to suggest each researcher have their best >evidence/proof at the ready in a presentable format that can be >disseminated at push button expediency. <snip> >You'd be easy and comforted to know that instead of wasting >your time with long winded debates that you could turn to that >newbie, debunker, researcher and say: >"Hold on, let's cut to the chase and look at the 'Comprehnsive >Introductory File' of collected facts. An easy to read 100 page >or so file on web or in print. If you can understand it, we can >talk from there." >Then you could be off to the golf course til they finish reading >it. Hi Greg, Errol and everyone at UFO UpDates, Hope this finds you all in good health and spirits. I just finished up my summer season of music engagements, went on-line, noticed Greg's post from last month, and decided to answer it. Greg, if you click on the following link, I think you'll find what you are looking for. I created my entire web-site and just recently, this new page which condenses much of it, to make it easy for people be able to have immediate access to the type of the information you mentioned, hopefully, in exactly the manner you described. I hope you'll mention it to any people you know who are interested in the topic. I can guarantee there is plenty there to raise some eyebrows. The research is solid and accurate. It took a long time to get it into the form it is in now. The amazing thing is that I know it has only scratched the surface. http://www.cohenufo.org/websitedoc.htm Sincerely,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Clarification On Hall's Withdrawal - Speiser From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 13:32:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:00:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Clarification On Hall's Withdrawal - Speiser >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:07:51 EDT >Subject: Re: Clarification On Hall's Withdrawal >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:36:46 +0000 >>Subject: Clarification On Hall's Withdrawal ><snip> >>Reasons for withdrawal: In a few more months I will be 75 years >>old and I have lost most of my retirement funds thanks to >>spinoff from the Enron scandal, then lost my part-time job of >>many years, only to face obvious age prejudice in trying to find >>new work. So, as a realist I recognize that UFOs have to be >only >>a spare-time interest from now on while I try to find ways to >>generate income. >Aside from all arguments and salutes, no one can say Dick Hall >isn't a master Jedi in the Ufology field. A pal of mine who has >written every top comic book in the past 30+ years and is a UFO >expert exclaimed last time we chatted: >"Dick Hall? God! He's been around forever!" I echo Greg's thoughts, and am so sorry to see the dean of ufology head for the showers. Through the years, I saw the number of ufologists for whom I had uncompromised respect dwindle to a number I could count on the fingers of two hands, and then one. Dick remains among those. Dick, I also want to thank you for your help on the project my dad and I contracted you for. Your contributions were timely and relevant, and if we need any more help in that area, I hope we
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Frola From: Robert Frola <ufologist.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 06:56:38 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:12:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Frola >From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:30:32 +1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:21:06 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 ><snip> >>The contactee movement >>represents a mystical-religious response to the UFO phenomenon. >>By now several books and a number of papers in professional >>journals have examined the movement in that light. I have >>contributed a paper to a Syracuse University Press book in >>progress on that very subject. ><snip> >Hi Jerry, >if you have the time can you give that to me in a nut-shell or >do you have a similar paper on a web site somewhere? I've looked >for other links but can't find any by anyone. Now you've got me >curious. Yes, I have been publishing a multi-part article by a Swedish researcher, titled 'New religious UFO Movements: Extraterrestrial Salvation in Contemporary America'. Part 2 is in the current issue of the Australasian Ufologist Magazine. Since your group doesn't do exchanges, you should be able to purchase it in the newsagent.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 3-Month Starchild Brief From: Lloyd Pye <mailing_list.nul-uk.com> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:14:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:19:33 -0400 Subject: 3-Month Starchild Brief Everyone: It's been nearly three months since the last Starchild update, with little of significance to report. At one point we thought we'd be featured in an hour-long documentary from Channel 5 in London, but the woman in charge returned from maternity leave and cancelled it. We also thought we'd lined up an analysis of a virtual endocast of the Starchild's brain, but that too has yet to come to fruition. Work in England on analyzing the organic biochemistry of the bone has slowed considerably due to the press of other matters on key personnel relating to the terrorist bombings in London. On a positive note, I'm now over 30,000 words into the book I'm writing about my years guiding the Starchild Project. That's about 1/3 of the way through it. If anyone wants to know what I'm doing with it, at the bottom of my website's home page (www.lloydpye.com) is a brief description of what to expect. In the nearly thirty years I've been writing, I can't remember ever receiving such positive feedback from pre-readers, which bodes well for eventual success. Speaking of my home page, on it you will see a box headed "Don't Miss This!" Please don't miss it. It's a brilliantly well-edited five-minute highlight reel of a presentation I gave in Washington during the summer. I'm especially proud of the DVD that came out of that event because for the first time I pulled together all of the diverse subjects my research deals with. In addition, I make five predictions of the kind that will be historic if any part is proved true. I'm thrilled to be going on record in such a public manner. On the downside, I suffered the heartbreak of watching my favorite city drowned. I went to college in New Orleans and lived there for six of the past eight years, so I _feel_ its loss to Katrina. And yes, my life has been impacted. When I left for London last year, I put everything I owned into a storage locker. When Amy and I returned early this year, we rented a fully furnished place here in Florida, so I left the locker filled in anticipation of selecting a more permanent place in the not-too-distant future. Very bad decision. Now I've lost all my worldly goods, which has been like losing a home without the home. However, for as bad as that sounds, and it's not good, it pales compared to what so many of my friends have lost. For them I stand in awe and dismay, wondering how they will repair their shattered lives, standing ready to help in any way they might require of me. I sincerely hope nothing even approaching tragedy on this scale ever happens to anyone reading these words. To close on an upbeat note... if you can spare 20 minutes in your busy day, on my home page go to the "Humor" section (see the goofy photo of me looking upward with some statues) and find the one with the Green Bay Packers football helmet. It's a hilarious recounting of what it took for me and a friend to fast-talk our way into a ritzy golf course to get Brett Favre's autograph on a Packer helmet owned by Art Bell. This will make you laugh, guranteed!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 PRG Press Release - 9/13/05 - Toronto Symposium From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 00:46:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:21:43 -0400 Subject: PRG Press Release - 9/13/05 - Toronto Symposium PRG Paradigm Research Group Press Release - September 13, 2005 - Toronto Exopolitics Symposium Contact Paradigm Research Group: 202-215-8344 ParadigmRG.nul Contact Exopolitics Toronto: 905-278-5628 zland.nul Washington, DC -- PRG Executive Director, Stephen Bassett, will give the closing Keynote Presentation at Exopolitics Toronto: A Symposium on UFO Disclosure and Planetary Directions at the University of Toronto's Convocation Hall on September 25. The Symposium is open to the public. Other speakers include historian, Richard Dolan (US); researcher/journalist Paola Harris (Italy); researcher Stanton Friedman (Canada) and, notably, Canadian political figure, Paul Hellyer. All speakers will address the symposium's theme: why is information concerning extraterrestrial-related phenomena and government involvement with these issues still being withheld from the public by specific western nations and what are the implications? Hellyer, 82, has had a long and varied career with particular emphasis on national defense. He held a number of positions culminating in his appointment as Minister of Defense under Lester Pearson. By participating in the Toronto Exopolitics Symposium Mr. Hellyer joins a growing list of well known political and military figures around the world, active or retired, who have openly questioned the appropriateness of the response by the United States Government to this most profound and controversial issue. This list includes President Clinton's Chief of Staff, John Podesta; President Jimmy Carter; New Mexico Governor, Bill Richardson; the late British Admiral Lord Hill- Norton; Astronaut, Dr. Edgar Mitchell; the late astronaut, Gordon Cooper; French Air Force General Denis Letty; then Michigan Congressman Gerald Ford; and the late New Mexico Congressman Steven Schiff as well as many lesser known career military and agency personnel - U.S. and foreign. As quoted on the Maclean's Magazine website, www.maleans.ca, Hellyer stated, "I believe that UFOs are real. I'll talk about that a little bit and a bit about the fantastic cover-up of the United States government and also a little bit of the fallout from the wreckage, by that I mean the material discoveries we have made and how they've been applied to our technology." Richard Dolan is the author of UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Cover-up, 1947-1973 and Paola Harris is the author of Connecting the Dots: Making Sense of the UFO Phenomenon. Stanton Friedman has authored several books, including Crash at Corona and Top Secret/MAJIC. Keynote presenter Bassett is arguably the leading advocate in the world for ending the 58-year government imposed truth embargo regarding an extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race and the planet earth. He is a political activist, founder of the Paradigm Research Group, Executive Director of the Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political Action Committee (X- PPAC), author of the Paradigm Clock website, and a political columnist and commentator. Presently he is the only registered lobbyist in the United States representing extraterrestrial-related phenomena research/activist organizations, and X-PPAC is the first political action committee to target the political implications of extraterrestrial-related phenomena. In 2002 he conducted an independent Congressional campaign for the 8th District of Maryland. It was first instance in which a congressional candidate on the November ballot in a federal election addressed the matter of an extraterrestrial presence and the 5-decade government imposed truth embargo. Since 1996 Bassett has assisted other organizations and initiatives which have been making the case for 1) an end to the government embargo on the truth surrounding an extraterrestrial presence, and 2) open congressional hearings to take the testimony of former military and agency employees witness to extraterrestrial-related events and evidence. He has appeared on hundreds of radio and television talk shows, in numerous documentaries and brought the message to millions of people of the likelihood and implications of "Disclosure" - the formal acknowledge by the United States government of an extraterrestrial presence about the earth - not maybe, not someday, but NOW. Tickets are available on-line by visiting the Symposium�s web site: www.exopoliticstoronto.com/tickets.html or by going directly to University of Toronto TIX web site at: www.uofttix.ca/view.php?id=70 Other Relevant Websites: Paradigm Research Group: www.paradigmclock.com Richard Dolan: www.keyholepublishing.com Paola Harris: www.paolaharris.it Stanton Friedman: www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html Macleans Article on Hellyer: www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics/news/shownews.jsp?content=n091111A ________________________________________________________ Paradigm Research Group
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Paul Hellyer Takes Up Cause Of UFOs From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:27:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:27:16 -0400 Subject: Paul Hellyer Takes Up Cause Of UFOs Source: Macleans Magazine - Canada http://tinyurl.com/dsqv4 September 11, 2005 Politics Former Cabinet Minister Paul Hellyer Takes Up The Cause Of Believers In UFOs by John Ward OTTAWA (CP) - Paul Hellyer, onetime cabinet minister and a political chameleon who went through Liberal and Tory colours before founding two political parties of his own, has a new cause - UFOs. Hellyer is to be a featured speaker at a UFO conference in Toronto later this month and organizers are making much of his credentials as a former defence minister in the Pearson administration 40 years ago. Skeptics are, well, skeptical. The 82-year-old Hellyer says he believes not only that UFOs are extraterrestrial visitors, but that some governments - the United States at least - know all about it and are covering up. He says he believes American scientists have re-engineered alien wreckage from a supposed UFO crash at Roswell, N.M. in 1947 to produce modern technical marvels. "I believe that UFOs are real," he said in a recent interview. "I'll talk about that a little bit and a bit about the fantastic coverup of the United States government and also a little bit of the fallout from the wreckage, by that I mean the material discoveries we have made and how they've been applied to our technology." Hellyer was once a political star. He was first elected to the Commons in 1949 at the age of 25, at that time the youngest person ever to win a seat. He went on to become a cabinet minister, ran for the Liberal leadership against Pierre Trudeau, switched parties to the Conservatives and ran for that party's leadership, too. He eventually founded two other political parties, Action Canada in 1971 and the Canadian Action party in 1997. He says his conviction that UFOs are real arose from reading in recent years, not from anything gleaned from secret archives during his time in office. "I've been a skeptic for quite a while but I've been exposed to more and more information recently and have just decided to take a stand," he said. Organizers of the MUFON conference - the name is an acronym for the Mutual UFO Network - see Hellyer's participation as giving legitimacy to the cause. The conference is billed as "Canada's first major UFO symposium calling for complete government disclosure concerning the reality of UFOs and the extraterrestrial presence on Earth." "Mr. Hellyer's involvement will increase the impact of the symposium," says a conference news release. Victor Viggiani, a retired educator who is an organizer of the event, calls him a featured speaker. "We're depending on him to be a real focal point," Viggiani said. "We're using his sort of experiences to demonstrate that national political figures can come out and talk about this." He says Hellyer has a simple point to make: "Let's start telling the truth about what we all know is really happening in the skies and journalists start paying attention, that's basically going to be his message." Does Hellyer feel he's being used? "I think they are trying to make the most of my appearance." His participation is exasperating for David Gower, a spokesman for Skeptics Canada, a group dedicated to rational thinking and to debunking paranormal claims. "This sort of thing is a big feather in their cap, to come across people like him," says Gower, who is dismissive of the whole UFO mystique. "There's no convincing evidence that can be anything other than personal anecdotes or allegations that can't be proven," he said. He said UFO enthusiasts have a quasi-religious fervour that often makes them impervious to doubt. "There is a deep-seated need, a desire in people, to feel that there's something in control somewhere, bigger than they are, something that can give some kinds of answers." Trying to wean people away from UFO beliefs is like "nailing Jello to the wall," he said. Viggiani says UFOs could be a boon for mankind. He says they have technology that could solve the world's energy problems "in one fell swoop." This is where the conspiracy theory takes off for him. "For some strange reasons, our governments can't come forward to talk to us about what these energy sources are," he says. "Because oil is just about $70 a barrel and that would undercut a lot of the power structure, the World Bank . . . the fossil fuel industry. "They are just not prepared to handle this." Hellyer, too, thinks there are important secrets to be learned. "I think, frankly, that the subject should be taken seriously, because there are consequences that have real effects or could have real effects on the people of the world and I think there should be discussion of it." While some believers think western governments have actually negotiated with extraterrestrials, Hellyer doesn't go that far. "To my knowledge, it's just visitations," he says. Although his participation in the conference is likely to draw ridicule, Hellyer said he's used to that after his roller- coaster political life. "It wouldn't be the first time, would it?" "I think they are trying to make the most of my appearance." His participation is exasperating for David Gower, a spokesman for Skeptics Canada, a group dedicated to rational thinking and to debunking paranormal claims. "This sort of thing is a big feather in their cap, to come across people like him," says Gower, who is dismissive of the whole UFO mystique. "There's no convincing evidence that can be anything other than personal anecdotes or allegations that can't be proven," he said. He said UFO enthusiasts have a quasi-religious fervour that often makes them impervious to doubt. "There is a deep-seated need, a desire in people, to feel that there's something in control somewhere, bigger than they are, something that can give some kinds of answers." Trying to wean people away from UFO beliefs is like "nailing Jello to the wall," he said. Viggiani says UFOs could be a boon for mankind. He says they have technology that could solve the world's energy problems "in one fell swoop." This is where the conspiracy theory takes off for him. "For some strange reasons, our governments can't come forward to talk to us about what these energy sources are," he says. "Because oil is just about $70 a barrel and that would undercut a lot of the power structure, the World Bank . . . the fossil fuel industry. "They are just not prepared to handle this." Hellyer, too, thinks there are important secrets to be learned. "I think, frankly, that the subject should be taken seriously, because there are consequences that have real effects or could have real effects on the people of the world and I think there should be discussion of it." While some believers think western governments have actually negotiated with extraterrestrials, Hellyer doesn't go that far. "To my knowledge, it's just visitations," he says. Although his participation in the conference is likely to draw
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Former Cabinet Minister Believes UFOs Out There From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:31:59 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:31:59 -0400 Subject: Former Cabinet Minister Believes UFOs Out There Source: 580 CFRA NewsTalk Radio - Ottawa, Canada http://www.cfra.com/headlines/index.asp?cat=2&nid=31861 Monday, September 12, 2005 Former Cabinet Minister Believes UFOs Are Out There by Josh Pringle A one-time cabinet minister from the Pearson era is embracing the idea the U.S. Government is covering up the truth about UFOs. Paul Hellyer says he believes that UFOs are really extraterrestrial visitors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina - Stonehill From: Paul Stonehill <rurcla.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:46:39 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:39:29 -0400 Subject: Re: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina - Stonehill >From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:04:55 -0400 >Subject: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina Dear Scott: What do you know about the 1960 USO incident in the Argentinian waters? The Soviets were extremely interested, according to my information. They had their own USO encounters and research; Vladimir Ajaja and other respected Russian researchers attest to that. I went beyond their statements, and collected more information and am interested in any Argentinian knowledge of the incident, as well as their response to the Soviet inquiries. Perhaps other UFO UpDates contributors know of the incident?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: 509th Bomb Wing Pease AFB & The Hills - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 17:53:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:41:08 -0400 Subject: Re: 509th Bomb Wing Pease AFB & The Hills - Hatch >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul >To: <ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:04:51 +0200 >Subject: 509th Bomb Wing >Reading about the history of the 509th at: >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/roswell031.html >I noticed the following: >"The wing also received a new home toward the end of the 1950s >when it moved its people and equipment to Pease AFB, N.H., in >August 1958. There, the wing continued to function as an >integral part of SAC. By 1965, SAC scheduled the B-47s for >retirement. Unfortunately, this retirement also included the >509th. Fate intervened, however, as SAC decided to keep the >509th alive and equipped it with B-52s and KC-135s. Thus, the >wing received its first B-52 and KC-135 in March 1966." >Was not Pease AFB, N.H. the Air Force Base nearest to the >place of the Hill's abduction in 1961? Hello Luis: On my maps at least, Pease AFB in New Hampshire is is the closest base. The B&B Hill event took place near Lincoln, NH which is a good ways north-northwest from Pease. There is some other base in Maine at about the same distance, maybe a bit further. I only display places with listings of places with UFO sightings, so I could have easily missed a closer one. I have 2 or 3 Pease AFB listings, and a few more in Portsmouth NH which is close to Pease. None of the dates line up with the Hills' abduction.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:16:30 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:46:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:17:35 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >Maybe trilobites weren't the best example. But my point is >correct. Billions of years doesn't mean a thing as far as >evolution is concerned. And we do know that once life starts, it >can be extinguished overnight. No, Ed, your point is _not_ correct! You're serving us up quite a feast here. We have apples and oranges, even nuts, red herring, and baloney. The fact that life can be extinguished overnight is not important to our discussion as to whether or not a civililization can possibly arise in another star system. This is some of the 'red herring' on the menu. Any civilization can be destroyed by any different number of ways. Life can become extinct so easily. We all know this! This doesn't mean life can't get a 'toe hold' on another planet, that is, it doesn't mean life can't appear and begin the evolutionary process. It can be wiped out after it starts, or get knocked back to square one over and over again, or have its advancement interrupted so that it doesn't progress very far, but it doesn't mean it can't start. Either the conditions are right - all the ingredients are there - or they're not. Recent research being conducted into life on this planet indicates life is a lot more vigorous and rigorous than first thought. It will take hold and succeed in extemes of temperature and under horrid (from our viewpoint) conditions, in fact, it seems that wherever there is a source of energy and liquid water, life begins. Even poisonous gases (to us) and acid environments don't prevent it from doing its thing, and doing it really, really well. The effect of 'time' on the 'evolutionary process' and the effect of 'time' on a technological civilization are two completely different subjects for consideration - as different as apples and oranges. You're trying to make them one and the same. They're not! A billion years to the evolutionary process affects whether it advances from something simple like, say, an amoeba to something much more complicated like a mammal. A lot can happen in a billion (or billions of) year(s). However, once an advanced, intelligent organism has evolved and has created a technological civilization, you're talking about something completely different when you're talking about how a billion years affects that _technological civilization_ as opposed to how a billion years affects the development of life starting out on a planet. In one case, you're talking about time's influence on the possible progression of life forms from simple to complicated, while in the other case you're talking about time's influence on someone's technology. Technology and 'life' are two completely different things! Two completely different ball games, or apples and oranges. You don't seem to be making this distinction. Should a civilization that has technology survive for a billion years, it's a good bet that that billion years will have a tremendous effect on the progression of that technology. Just look at what a tiny fraction of a billion years (just hundreds or thousands of years) have meant to our technological progress. Then you further add to the menu of apples, oranges, red herring, and baloney by serving us this 'nutty' offering, which, aside from your attempt to first merge apples and oranges, is simply utter nonsense, "Billions of years doesn't mean a thing as far as evolution is concerned." That sounds pretty definite! Pretty absolute! And wrong! On our own planet, billions of years _have_ made a big difference. Such a period of time doesn't automatically guarantee anything but the fact that it has made a difference even once (on Earth) invalidates your statement above. I suspect billions of years make a difference everywhere life takes hold. Billions of years may not affect the 'evolutionary dead ends' but I'll bet it always makes some kind of difference as to the progression of life forms once the life process has started on a planet. This is not tantamount to saying that billions of years always produces an intelligent organism that creates a technological civilization. The bottom line is you're saying billions of years doesn't matter to evolution (but you should look at what billions of years have done to the evolutionary process on Earth) and you're trying to make the evolution of life forms synonymous with technology/technological civilization. You're wrong on both counts! As I said, your point is _not_ correct! Since your whole arguement seems to revolve around these basic and faulty views, you can't really make much of an impact on common sense and logical, intelligent discussion with the rest
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 British UFO Hunters' International Sky Watch From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:20:21 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 08:53:12 -0400 Subject: British UFO Hunters' International Sky Watch British UFO hunter's international sky watch Saturday 1st Oct Press Release The British UFO hunters are holding there first International UFO sky watch. This will be held on Saturday the 1st of October late evening, through to the early hours. Sunday morning. The British UFO hunters have several coordinators through out the UK, but anyone can take part in the sky watch. The sky watch You do not have to leave you home surroundings to take part, you can do so from your own back garden, but it s entirely up to your selves, you do not even have to be a member of the British UFO hunters to take part in the sky watch. Report your UFO sightings There s two ways you can report your UFO sightings to us, be telephone on our UFO HOT LINE or by E- mail.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Holman From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 01:46:19 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:45:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Holman >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:30:50 -0700 >Subject: Meier's Contact Reports [was: Exopolitics Courses...] >>From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:57:39 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>I'm one of those unaware of this "meticulous care". Could you >>please explain the process? >Wendelle Stevens is the one who looked most into all this, back >in 1978-1980. As one indication, he learned that Meier had >complained to Semjase that in transmitting the word-for-word >Contact Notes for him to record a day later by automatic >writing, or automatic typing, she had sometimes left out certain >portions of the dialog; later Meier was informed they were doing >this for his own good (in Stevens, Supplementary Investigation >Report, p. 60). >Meier's Contact Reports consistently show his concern for the >truth, in a manner that is realistic and sincere. As one example >I recall, at one point he asked Semjase for permission to go >back and make a correction in an earlier report where he had >written "Million" instead of "Milliarde" (milliard = billion). >He was meticulous in reporting the correct hour of each contact >as well the correct date. That's only evidence of meticulous care if you accept that these contacts are real in the first place. What I was looking for was some independent and trustworthy process by which any predictions can be shown to have been recorded *before* the event they predicted. A prediction that is only revealed after the event is not exactly persuasive proof. By your own account, Stevens didn't get to see Meier's records until 9 March 1979, and as far as I can tell, the book book you are citing wasn't published until 1983. This leaves a very large room for doubt. >Again, you'd have to call a lot of witnesses liars to claim >Meier didn't have real contacts. E.g., see: >www.tjresearch.info/witnessa.htm . Well, I think you'd agree Meier's claims are hardly universally accepted. But that has no bearing on this case; I'm only interested in his specific claims regarding Jupiter. Can it be proven that they were made before the Voyager flyby, and were they accurate? The answer seems to be No, and Somewhat (which doesn't mean much given the preceding No). >That flyby was at its closest on March 5th. On March 9th Stevens >obtained a copy of that Contact 115 Report and read the >predictions in it, and he showed it to two trusted (and named) >friends. (in Stevens' _Preliminary Investigation Report_ p. 88). >The time necessary for news to get out about Jupiter's ring(s) >and Io, etc., combined with the time necessary for Stevens to >have obtained a copy of the Report, makes it quite improbable >that the report could have postdated March 5th. But perhaps not >absolutely impossible; I don't know if Stevens was over in >Switzerland around then or not. Hmm, a good question. Unfortunately the summary of Stevens' book at http://meiercase.0x2a.info/meiercase/001/article.php?id=39#e says only that he visited in 1979, whereas it gives months and even days for the other visits. The most recent events discussed during that visit (according to the summary) were in early February 1979, so a visit in March 1979 seems quite possible. I happened to be on campus this morning, so I had a look at what the newspapers were reporting at the time. (English language only, but at least it shows what was known publicly and when.) March 6 1979: (London) Daily Telegraph, p. 6: * Io is reported as being spectacular oranges and yellows. David Morrison is quoted as saying these are probably from sulfurs and salts from an evaporated ocean. (cf. Meier: "the various large Jupiter moons were of various colors, as for instance red, yellow, brown and white as also orange"; on Io "chiefly potassium salts and sulfur combinations would constitute the surface and deep into it, and that everything has settled as a very thick crust, after the masses of water on this ocean had receded" and "Io, once was totally covered with water".) NB: I don't think anybody now speaks of Io's surface having resulted from an evaporated ocean, but Meier seems to have picked up on this theory and stuck to it. * Europa is like the Earth would be if its oceans froze, while Io is like Earth would be if its oceans boiled away. (cf. Meier: "the moon Europa is exactly the stark opposite of Io, that there the masses of water not evaporated and changed, but that they are frozen to a gigantic armor of ice.") New York Times, p. C1: * Amalthea revealed to be highly elongated, twice as long - 180 miles - as it is wide. (cf. Meier: "a particular moon [Amalthea] would only measure approximately 200 km in length, which I defined as a gigantic hen's egg".) NB: if Meier really did say 200 km then he's more accurate than the NYT figure of 180 miles -- the currently accepted number is 168 km. Could be a transcription error on somebody's part though, as the numerals are much the same. * Great Red Spot is a gigantic storm, rotating counter- clockwised at high speed. (cf. Meier: "the mile-size cloud formations in the storm funnel of Jupiter would at extremely high velocity and in a counter- clockwise direction.") March 7 1979: New York Times (forgot the page number, sorry): * Speculation about a possible volcano seen on Io (see below) March 8 1979: (London) Guardian, p. 10: * Jupiter's ring discovered; thousands of miles wide but only 20 thick New York Times, p. A18: * Thin, dark ring discovered: 5000 miles wide, less than 20 thick (cf. Meier: "not only Saturn and Uranus possess a ring, but Jupiter as well, only that this one is much thinner and smaller than the other two around Saturn and Uranus?") March 9 New York Times, p. A20: * Volcano discovered on Io, possibly others seen. Vulcanism may have been responsible for wiping out the many meteorite craters which were expected, but not seen. Io dark red, yellow and white. Plains may be covered with salt. (cf. Meier: "the largest portion of all the outward catapulted material again falls back on Io, and practically closes all volcano openings again, which this moon, in contrast to the other moons of Jupiter, proves to have no carter landscape, but a fantastic evenness, despite the many craters?") NB: Io does _not_ have a fantastic evenness. It has quite a varied terrain - not least because of all the volcanos (not just craters), although perhaps he meant smoothness. But whatever he meant, *Europa* has got Io beat on both counts, so Meier is wrong here. (I have no idea what "carter" means, unless it is supposed to be "crater", but then the sentence makes no sense.) * Io probably responsible for the sodium cloud in Io's orbit. (cf. Meier: "the rest [of the volcanic ejecta from Io] would be pushed out into space, while a part of it is drawn by Jupiter and very slowly densifies in its ring to a heavy sulfur-ion- combination.") NB: I think Meier has gotten Jupiter's ring and Io's cloud mixed up. In any event, Io isn't the origin of the ring, as Meier claims. So, in summary, just about all of the factual information contained in Meier's claimed predictions were available in the press before the date Wendelle Stevens received them (and that's assuming that date is correct) - even if only very shortly before. Just about everything else is at best, garbled, at worst, just wrong. There's one exception, and that is that he said - sorry, Semjase said - that Io is the most volcanically active body in the solar system. It is indeed, but it doesn't look like to me that this was being claimed in the press by 9 March 1979. Could be a wild guess, or some scientist somewhere may have been quoted in some paper (or let's not forget the possibility of TV and radio reports). Still, it was a very good guess. I can't conclusively prove that Meier faked these predictions after the event, but it seems that he can't prove that he did. So it's a wash; they're worthless as proof of the reality of his other claims. >Thus I'd say the possibility of alteration of the date would >probably not apply here. Other prophecies Meier was told on Oct. >19, 1978 and got recorded in his report the next day include the >Jonestown massacre (of Nov. 18th, 1978), and the overthrow of >the Shah of Iran in February, 1979. Again, there seems to be no evidence that these were made before the events they predict, so it's not very helpful here. If he faked the Jupiter predictions, he quite possibly faked these as well. >Those who are in Meier's FIGU group know there's no way he could >alter the date of a contact appreciably, because the core group >was allowed to read these reports not too long afterwards, at >least by 1978, according to core member Hans-Georg Lanzendorfer. >Also because they were serially numbered and occurred on average >of once or twice a month, and because they often referred back >to the previous report, or spoke of future dates. Unfortunately, most of us aren't and weren't in FIGU, so again this doesn't help verify his claims much. <snip> >>There are also some problems with the material Horn presents in >>the PDF you link to. Firstly, Meier says (and Semjase confirms) >>that Jupiter's ring (singular - clearly they were unaware that >>Jupiter has multiple rings) "for the most part" consists of >>material ejected from Io's volcanos. >Perhaps being just a brief mention of it, it was spoken of as >Jupiter's ring like one might speak of Saturn's ring. Otherwise, >Jupiter has just the one main ring, which is what Meier likely >referred to, the other two being exceedngly faint, gossamer >rings in comparison. Well, I don't think anyone does speak of Saturn's ring (singular) - I don't think I've ever heard that usage. But sure, you might be right: it's not wildly inaccurate to speak of Jupiter having only one ring, as it is for Saturn. So I'll let that one pass. >>Horn claims this has been >>verified - but the Galileo press release he cites concludes that >>the rings are formed from dust kicked up from meteorite impacts >>on Jupiter's four small inner moons. Not only is this different >>to volcanic ejecta from Io, but Io is _not_ one of these moons >>the press release refers to! These are Metis, Adrastea, Amalthea >>and Thebe. Io would be one of the four _big_ inner moons.) See: >>http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~sheppard/satellites/jupsatdata.html >>Meier also refers to an egg-shaped moon, which he thinks was the >>closest to Jupiter. Semjase tells him that this is Amalthea. >>Well, it _was_ the closest known moon in 1978-9, before two >>others were discovered from Voyager images, but not announced >>until 1980 (Metis and Adrastea). >It looks like Meier was 'had' on that one, on Amalthea. Well, it's not just Amalthea, it's also the origin of the rings, which does *not* accord with accepted science and so can't be claimed as a *confirmed* prediction. They come from ejecta from meteorite impacts on Jupiter's four innermost moons, not from Io, not from volcanic ejecta. >Semjase >must have known better. Or, I'd say, she would have been remiss >if she hadn't mixed in a certain amount of plausible deniability >- for those skeptics to latch onto who don't want ETI to be >smarter than we are. I hope you don't think that it's >"convenient" that ETI would have a strategy of dealing with us. I'm sorry to say that it does strike me as convenient - not so much for any ETs that might be out there, but for Meier. >I don't think ETI wanted to deliver absolute proof to us. Check >with Michael Horn if you want to argue against a supporter of >the absolute validity of what the Plejarens told Meier. I don't particularly feel the need to do that. But if you are going to claim Meier's correct statements as evidence for his ET contacts, but discard any incorrect statements as ET
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:35:02 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:48:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:19:46 -0300 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >However, elementary particles aren't minature ping pong balls >and certainly don't act like tiny little ping pong balls. >Quantum physics paints a very different picture of them. They >are strange little entities that don't behave anything like >matter at the macroscopic level (molecules, for example) does. Ed: Regarding these miniature 'ping pong ball' particles and their apparent property of 'non-locality,' I refer you to an excellent article by Francisco J. (Joe) Lewells, Ph.D. entitled 'Over the Rainbow: Quantum Physics Discovers the Holographic Universe' found on pages 119-134 of the MUFON 1995 International UFO Symposium proceedings (Ufology: A Scientific Paradigm). Well worth the read! If what Lewells is talking about is true, you will be able to see why your 'molecules needing to be accelerated to light speed and pushed through the vastness of space' notion, and your 'limits imposed by the breaking of the molecular bonds of water at a speed only a tiny percentage of the speed of light', may represent the crudest and most primative way of reaching the stars as well as an obstacle that is only a mirage on the highway to other star systems.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:43:38 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:57:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Rudiak >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:17:35 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:30:56 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:55:31 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? <snip> >If we research a subject and try to find out all that is known, >for sure, then"as far as we know" means that we've reached the >limits of our knowledge. I realize that there may be information >that is missing or unknown, but as far as we know there has >never been any light speed travel. There may be light speed >travel, but as far as we know there isn't any evidence that it >has taken place. The contention of the ETH is that UFOs _do_ represent evidence of interstellar travel, which could be at sub-light or faster- than-light speeds. Again you seem to be fixated on the strange idea that interstellar travel could only occur at exactly light speed. >>If there >>have been crash recoveries with bodies recovered having >>physiology and biochemistry so remarkably different than >>anything else here on earth that they couldn't have evolved >>here, then they would establish with certainty that the beings >>and their ships were extraterrestrial. That would mean they >>either come from other stellar systems in our known universe or >>from some other universe. Either way, they would not be of this >>earth. > >Maybe you could tell me where I might find one of these bodies. Maybe you can likewise tell us where we might find one of your earthly humanoid monotremes of the AA film. I would presume in the same place as one of our presumed ET aliens. >The only bodies I'm familiar with are the AA creatures and while >their physiology seems similar in some ways to humans, we have >no way to measure the biochemistry from film footage. We can't >rely on the MJ12 documents for any information regarding either >the physiology and biochemistry. The AA film is no more reliable a piece of evidence about the physiology or anatomy then, say, several of Leonard Stringfield's leaker sources, who may or may not have been telling the truth. >There shouldn't be any mystery. I base my assertions on my very >close examination of the AA creature and the small amount of >debris footage. It's a matter of extrapolation. Plus the following hidden assumptions: 1) the AA film is absolutely for real and not a hoax or fake; 2) the creatures could not look similar to us unless they arose on Earth. Both assumptions are contentious, not to mention your ability to extrapolate so much from so little. >>Despite Ed's naysaying, NASA has a small research effort right >>now devoted to possible interstellar propulsion systems. This >>was started during the reign of previous NASA director Dan >>Golden, who set a goal of launching a small interstellar probe >>within the next 40 years. >That's interesting. At what speed will the probe travel? The goal was 10% of light speed. >>>...In order to travel from star to star, >>>these star-craft must travel at the speed of light (186,000 >>>miles per second) and I just don't think that will ever be >>>possible. >>This is utter nonsense. Why would it be necessary to travel at >>literal light speed? Why not sublight speed? <snip> >>Sublight travel at 10% or 20% of light speed would still be >>quite adequate to move between adjacent stars. It would just >>take longer than light-speed or faster-than-light speed. >Here's the problem as I see it: Water molecules which make up >95% of all life, break their chemical bonds at just a little >above .02 of the speed of light, or 5100 miles per second. Isn't >that a little slow for star travel? See: >http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x23.htm >"You can do this until the speed of the molecules is so high >that they break each other's chemical bonds when they collide. >To find out how fast this is, we compare energies: the energy of a >typical chemical bond is about 400 kJ/mol, for example the >O-H bond energy in water is 467 kJ/mol. When the average kinetic >energy of the molecules reaches this point, then a typical collision >liberates enough energy to break the bond...." This, unfortunately, is yet another example of where Ed doesn't understand the science, resulting in false conclusions about what or what is not possible. He is confusing the velocities of the individual molecules with the velocity of the overall _system_. As the system, i.e., all atoms and molecules, speed up together, their velocities _relative to one another_ do not change. Imagine the following thought experiment. Let billiard balls on a pool table represent molecules moving around and bumping into one another. If their speed and energy is high enough when they collide, the billiard balls will shatter, analagous to Ed's molecules breaking apart. Suppose 2 billiard balls slamming into one another at 100 mph would cause them to shatter. Thus by Ed's logic, if you put the pool table with balls on a jet airplane and accelerate them to 600 mph, all the billiard balls will shatter to smithereens as they careen around because they are exceeding 100 mph. But we all know what really happens. Playing pool at 600 mph on a jet airplane is no different than playing pool on the ground. The balls move around just like they do on the ground and they do not shatter. The system of pool table plus balls has been speeded up _relative to the ground_, but _within the system_ itself, the velocities do not change. On the plane, the pool table does not seem to be moving; the balls are not smashing into one another at ~600 mph, but at normal billiard ball velocities. The same is true with a spaceship. Matter will _not_ fall apart when the speed of the spaceship _relative to Earth_ exceeds the bonding energies of the various molecules therein. <snip> >>>So? Do you think that a billion years lead time has given the >>>Zetas a head start? That isn't the way evolution works, or >>>trilobites would rule the world. <snip> >Maybe trilobites weren't the best example. But my point is >correct. Billions of years doesn't mean a thing as far as >evolution is concerned. And we do know that once life starts, it >can be extinguished overnight. >I was trying to show that a head start and lots of time doesn't >necessarily guarantee evolutionary success. You have absolutely >no way of knowing if there are other beings outside of our own >solar system. >As I told Stan, I have no problem if you have faith that there >is other life in the universe or ghosts or other dimensions, >etc, or all the baloney that 98% of humans believe. It's not my >cup of tea. Your cup of tea seems to be that humanoid marsupials from Earth millions of years older than us are piloting flying saucers and are hiding from us under Antarctica or the ocean or such. That you do not consider "baloney." In fact, you seem to be utterly convinced that these notions are true. >>Conversely, Ed talks below about his AA being having evolved >>here, being a monotreme (i.e. non-placental mammal), looking >>like us because of convergent evolution, and being much more >>advanced than us because their civilization might be as much as >>100 million years older than ours. Aside from the question of >>how he deduced all this, he is not exactly being consistent in >>his arguments. All Stan was saying is that some nearby >>civlization could have achieved interstellar travel and be here >>because they had a head-start of millions of years. >And I think Stan has no reason to believe that or any evidence >that he might be correct. I use the AA creature and the debris >to deduce "all this". Which show very little and could all be faked. That's not much evidence to base such incredible theories on. >>>Humans have evolved their >>>technologies, and taken these technological skills about as >>>far as they can. >>Yet another amazing statement from Ed, based on what exactly? <snip> >Why is this so amazing? I said "about as far" as we can go. I'm >very aware of nanotechnology and have written about it on this >list. But even that won't take us to the stars because we're >still dealing with the limitations of molecular design. >Molecules cannot become light. Ed, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You seem to think all matter will eventually fall apart as it speeds up. This is absolute rubbish, as I've tried to explain above with the billiard ball analogy. >>Yes, _possibly_ there will come a point where the technology >>becomes so advanced that technological innovation will basically >>cease, but based on our own experience here on planet earth, I >>haven't seen any evidence of that happening here yet, not even >>remotely close.... >Yes and that is a serious problem and another issue. But we >essentially agree: at some point "advanced that technological >innovation will basically cease". That's not what I said, but no matter. The main point is you are claiming that humans will never achieve the level of technology of your humanoid platypuses. Or maybe your argument is that humans or humanoid platypuses will never achieve interstellar travel because technological advancement will cease and matter falls apart when speeded up, and that this applies not only here, but to all technological civilizations throughout the universe. However you slice this baloney, it still remains baloney. >>Again Ed isn't exactly consistent with his arguments. He is >>saying that humans have hit a dead end technologically, but not >>his AA monotremes, who would seem to be way more advanced than >>us with their flying machines and ability to conceal themselves >>from us. >I think the monotreme civilization is at the point where >technological innovation has basically ceased. They have >mastered nanotechnology, with its many advanced features, but >still seem primative in other ways. They don't seem to >understand us. How Ed can deduce all this from the AA film, even if it were genuine, never ceases to amaze me. >>Where exactly are they supposed to be living? >I think they have bases on earth, under the ocean but I doubt >they're limited. They could be living anywhere in the solar >system. Couldn't the same be true of ET civilizations? >>>Nanotechnology, the science of the future will certainly improve >>>our chances of visiting the outer reaches of our solar system. >>>but never the stars. And you have no evidence that it will. >>And Ed has no evidence to the contrary, just more overreaching >>assertions based on faulty reasoning. >I do have very convincing evidence. Molecules can't travel >anywhere near the speed that is needed for successful star >travel. Molecules seem to be essential for matter to express >itself. We live in a molecular universe. There might be a >parallel universe, built on good intentions, where star travel >is common, but not in our mundane, molecular corner of the >world. As I said, overreaching assertions based on faulty reasoning. Here again is Ed stating his weird and totally erroneous notion that matter will fall apart as it speeds up. Since that simply isn't true, Ed's whole theoretical objection to interstellar travel collapses. <snip> >>I'm going to overlook more of Ed's questionable statements here >>and instead talk about his crash site near Socorro. >>Wendy Connor's took me out to Ed's site last April and I've been >>negligent in reporting on my impressions. >>I think the most >>interesting and anomalous part of it was the long row of damaged >>trees that were burned _on top_, and not from underneath, as one >>would expect from a brush fire. This is also a very arid area >>with little vegetation, so how the charring on top occurred is a >>bit of a mystery. >How can something be a "bit" of a mystery? The reason this row >of walnut trees show burn marks on their topsides and not >underneath is because the heat source came from above. Where is >the mystery to that? The mystery is in what the heat source was. You are assuming a priori it was a crashing flying saucer. I'm not willing to go that far unless other possible conventional explanations can be ruled out. E.g., suppose there was a strong wind along the line of trees and the foliage was very dry. A fire touched off in the head tree of the row might just burn the foliage in the crown of the tree, while sparks carried by the wind touched off a fire in the crown of the next tree, etc. I don't know if that explanation would necessarily fly if a real wildfire expert examined the scene, but it might. That would be a conventional explanation that doesn't require crashing saucers. >>There is also some rock scorching, but the >>pattern seemed more haphazard to me. A brush and forest fire >>expert would probably be needed to evaluate the unusual >>scorching patterns and see if there were a plausible explanation >>for them. >The rock sourcing is extensive and not at all "haphazard" but it >follows the tree-line and path of the other fire related clues. >I agree that another fire expert, besides the one who has >already visited the site, would be valuable. Agreed. The fire expert, Wendy Connor's friend who is a photographer for the Albuquerque fire department, I think is more experienced in urban fires. What is needed is somebody experienced in wildfires, especially those occurring in dry desert climates. >>I was not that impressed with the mineral deposits that Ed puts >>so much stock in. I certainly do not think, as Ed does, that >>they were in molten form and somehow splattered down from >>above by a crashing saucer. >David didn't walk the entire perimeter of the site, which has to >happen if one is to understand how the cristobalite is >distributed. >>Instead, they looked completely natural to me, even if the >>mineral cristabolite is rare in large crystalline form. Yes, I didn't walk the whole area, but I also didn't find a single sample of crystal formations that didn't look completely natural. >David doesn't know the desert What's the desert got to do with it? BTW Ed, I grew up in the desert, so I know a few things about it. >or understand mineral deposits so >I excuse his ignorance. I am no geological whiz kid, just a rank amateur, but Ed is hardly one to be accusing others of scientific ignorance. Some of his notions are so strange, such as matter falling apart or the AA film being absolute evidence of Earthly humanoid monotremes piloting flying saucers, that I can hardly believe anybody would seriously consider them. >Cristobalite is _never_ found covering >the ground in the manner at the site. Never! >It is only found in >association with obsidian or other highly heated minerals and >then only in very small (pinhead) quantities. There is only one >explanation for the cristobalite at the site: it fell from >above. Unfortunately, this is another of Ed's sweeping assertions that I seriously doubt would stand up to scientific scrutiny. It's just Ed jumping to conclusions again. As Ed well knows (he told me first before I looked at a geological map), the area is in the middle of a large, ancient caldera, meaning there was a lot of heat and pressure bearing on those rocks in the past. Ed's crash area is probably along a fault line (the area converges into a narrow canyon a few hundred yards further on). My suspicion is that the crystal grew along the fault underground under great heat and pressure. Then when the area uplifted, the fault line was exposed, and the crystals growing on the underlying rock were exposed, seemingly covering the surface. To superficial examination, they might seem to have been "spattered on," but every sample I looked at, the crystals were obviously tightly adherent and grown into the underlying substrate rock, even into minute fissures in the rock. That's one reason why this geology amateur thinks they are natural. >>For one >>thing, splattered molten rock would be loosely adherent to >>whatever it landed on once it cooled. You should find splatter >>samples on the sand here and there. >Yes there are many examples of sand splatter. You didn't see >them. I've shown them to Wendy and Joe and my brother has a >great sample. Are these splotches of crystals in complete isolation from other rocks, or are they always adhering to some other rock? If the latter, then all we have are examples of erosion carrying samples away from the fissure face. If you have a sample of the cristabolite in complete isolation, perhaps you could email a photo or two. >>But everything I saw was >>always on substrate rocks and tightly adherent, just as one >>would expect had the crystals slowly grown there. >The substrate rocks are all volcanic ash and could never have >formed the cristobalite which is only found in highly heated >rocks. Cristobalite is silica that has been heated to 1500 C. >Again it is NEVER found under these conditions. This again is a matter for experts to decide, meaning top-notch field geologists. The high heating conditions certainly would have existed in the past inside the caldera during the area's volcanic days. >>On one sample, >>the crystals were growing into a small fissure in the rock. A >>splatter wouldn't do that. >Some material was splattered, and some just fell in concentrated >form. The fall was inconsistent. In some areas the cristobalite >is much thicker than other areas but I agree that it is found in >fissures. Which is just one more indication that it wasn't created by spattering of molten material from above. That would have cooled much too quickly to have become tightly adherent to substrate rock and oozed down into tiny fissures. >>I found some rocks with the crystals >>underneath, not on top, >Many of the rocks have been disturbed by severe flash floods >and grazing cows and hunters, etc. That's an assumption, not a fact. You are assuming _all_ such examples of crystals underneath resulted from the rocks being flipped over during the last 50+ years. >>and one large rock buried in the soil >>where the crystalline surface extended some distance under the >>soil (I dug down several inches, and the underlying rock and >>crystal extended beyond where I dug). >The earth has been moved around by flooding and wind storms. >It has changed from month to month since I've been visiting. The rock I'm talking about was probably 30 feet above the wash on a hillside. I seriously doubt a flash flood in the wash would have affected it. It was also fairly substantial in size, not huge, but heavy. I would estimate 30 to 50 pounds. Unfortunately, I didn't have time or the tools to dig down further to see how far it extended, but it looked like it had been buried deeply in the soil on the hillside for some time. >>None of this is consistent >>with molten material splattered from above. >>Another thing is that splattered molten material would have >>cooled quickly as it fell through the air and landed on rocks >>and sand below. It would not have formed large crystals, which >>grow very slowly, over a period of years or centuries, not >>minutes or hours or days. Cooled lava, e.g., does not form >>crystals, except maybe very, very tiny ones you would need a >>microscope to see. >This does not make sense to me. Cristobalite is cristobalite. I >don't understand what you mean by "large crystals". I think you >must be talking abut another mineral common to the site: desert >rose. This could be confused with the cristobalite and is common >to the site. There are small crystals and big crystals. You can find microscopic crystals in cooled surface lava flows, e.g., but never large crystals visible to the naked eye. Why? Because larger silicate crystals take a long time to form. They cannot form in a matter of hours or days or even weeks. It takes years, centuries, millenia. That is why you won't find eyeball crystals in lava flows, which cool too rapidly. But you will find large crystals in other igneous rock like granite, because it forms underground under conditions of great pressure and temperature and takes a long time before it is exposed on the surface. Any molten material being spattered down from above onto surface rocks and sand is going to cool very quickly, probably in a matter of hours or at most a few days. It might be glassy in appearance, but there is insufficient time for it to crystallize to any extent. >>Frankly, I don't see what difference it makes. Let's assume the >>alien autopsy was the real thing and the cameraman was for real >>and describing the actual crash site. If he described the >>crystalline deposits on the rocks, they could be natural, >>couldn't they. >No! They could not be natural. Cristobalite doesn't form >naturally under these conditions. Asserts Ed, no geology expert, and who also thinks matter falls apart when speeded up. >>Why create some strange theory of the saucer >>sucking up the sand, melting it, and then splattering it around? >Because that's the only way for cristobalite to arrive at the >site. There is absolutely no geologic explanation that would >account for deposits of cristobalite of this quantity or >quality. Since Ed's explanation makes no scientific sense to me as a means of cristabolite formation, for the moment I think I'll stick with more mundane geologic explanations of the material forming underground millions of years ago under great heat and pressure, slowly crystallizing, and eventually being exposed on the surface. Yes, large crystals of cristabolite may be highly unusual, but there are other highly unusual if not unique mineral formations that are found elsewhere in the world. That doesn't mean a crashing flying saucer is needed to explain them. >As I said before, right now they could live anywhere. >As for the remains of their civilization, it is probably under >Antarctica. Monotremes evolved while the earth had only >one continent and much of that is now under water or ice. >I wouldn't expect to find traces of their civilization since they >don't seem to want us to know. Ed, you might be on solid ground concerning your crash site near Socorro, but when you continue to engage in wild speculation, such as above, you are going to turn a lot of people off on everything you say. That means your Socorro site won't get the scrutiny I think it deserves. >><snip> <snip> >>He then further jumps to the conclusion >>that the being must have evolved here using screwy reasoning >>about why interstellar travel would be impossible. >Where is your evidence that it is possible? Well for one thing, matter does _not_ fall apart when its kinetic energy exceeds the energy of its molecular bonds, which seems to be your theoretical and totally false objection to interstellar travel. >Aren't we dealing with evidence? Where's your evidence for advanced humanoid marsupials arising from Earth and formerly living in Antarctica? Your "evidence" seems solely to be the AA film. I'm asking for real evidence, such as their bones, their ancient artifacts, the remains of their ancient cities, etc., which I think should be around somewhere. On the other hand, sublight-speed interstellar travel is certainly possible from a theoretical scientific standpoint. Possible energy and propulsion systems are being explored right now. A leading NASA candidate is a large collecting sail being propelled by large space lasers powered by large solar arrays. The goal would be a probe to Alpha Centauri that achieves about 10% light speed. Whether such things are ever built I think will be determined more by politics and economics than science and engineering. The way this administration is spending the country into bankrupcy, I seriously doubt we'll have the money to fill the potholes in our highways much less spend tens of billions building an interstellar probe. >>conclusion jumping continues with the AA creature being a >>monotreme, i.e., marsupials like the duck-billed platypus. I >>guess he deduces that solely from the AA being not having a >>navel (and maybe nipples, though even marsupials have nipples >>somewhere), but neither necessarily would a rubber dummy or >>surgerically/cosmetically altered human. >The AA creature isn't a rubber dummy or altered human which >should be very clear to anyone who looks closely. Unfortunately Ed, there isn't sufficient detail to be able to determine anything with certainty one way or another, which is why the AA film is still being debated. I have considered it being an altered human body, because blood flows match where surface blood vessels are in humans, and in one instance in particular, the blood seeping didn't start until about 10 seconds after the scalpel passed making the incision. Therefore, it wasn't a simple blood-knife trick. There were also other details, such as how the skin was being peeled back by the surgeon and how it glistened, which seemed very realistic and what one would expect from a real body. On the other hand, other details bothered me and looked fake. E.g., there is absolutely nothing visible inside the neck except two "tubes" along the side. The neck region is very complex and full of a huge number of things, whether it be humans or monotremes. >I theorize monotreme origins because the creature has no navel, >no teeth, no nipples we can see, and only one hole. I could be >wrong but the evolutionary time line also works out to indicate >my conclusions might be correct. I've explored all the earthly >possibilities, and evolved monotremes seem to be the best >choice. The AA film is absolutely lousy evidence supporting your monotreme theory. If the body were not faked or altered in any way, then maybe your monotreme or "monotreme-like" hypothesis might have some viability. But nobody knows for sure one way or the other. The whole damn thing could easily be a hoax using a well-made dummy which bleeds and glistens realistically, or using a human that has been cosmetically or surgically altered to have no navel or nipples. At best, everything anybody says, you, me, anybody, is just conjecture. Even if the film were completely for real, that still wouldn't prove the beings arose on planet Earth, much less them being monotremes. >>This doesn't mean Ed is necessarily wrong about the AA being for >>real or for having found the crash site. I'm still intrigued by >>the peculiar scorched trees. I think a modest investment further >>investigating Ed's site is warranted. A good place to start >>might be in dating the year the trees were scorched, which could >>be done with tree ring analysis. If the date were other than >>1947, then that would be the end of the matter right there >>concerning any association with the AA film. >Yes, the site needs further investigation. Tree ring analysis >would clarify things. Any List members with expertise in this >area? At least we agree on this. Ed, would you also agree that if
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Secrecy News -- 09/12/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:41:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:03:06 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/12/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 87 September 12, 2005 ** DECLASSIFICATION DISPUTE YIELDS 1963 CIA BIOGRAPHY ** KATRINA, THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PRESS ** SOLAR POWER FOR IRAQ ** SELECTED CRS REPORTS DECLASSIFICATION DISPUTE YIELDS 1963 CIA BIOGRAPHY An extraordinary dispute among senior Bush Administration officials over whether to declassify a forty-year-old CIA document culminated last week in the public release of the contested document -- a one-page 1963 biography of Giuseppe Saragat (1898-1988), leader of Italy's Democratic Socialist Party who would go on to become that nation's president (1964- 1971). Declassification of the document was originally mandated in 2003 by majority vote of the Interagency Security Classification Appeals Panel (ISCAP) -- an executive branch body composed of representatives of the Departments of Defense, State and Justice, the CIA, NARA and the National Security Adviser. But the CIA objected, and Director of Central Intelligence George J. Tenet exercised the veto power that President Bush had granted to the DCI in a March 2003 executive order in order to block the document's release. Other members of the Panel appealed to the White House to override the DCI's veto. "Even [then-Secretary of State] Colin Powell put pen to paper" to urge declassification of the document, according to a U.S. government source. The White House did not respond. But last year, the appeal "was rendered moot when the DCI [Porter J. Goss] later exercised his discretion and declassified the document at issue in its entirety," according to the 2004 annual report from the Information Security Oversight Office (at page 9). Still, the document remained undisclosed until this month when it was finally transferred to the JFK Library in declassified form. (The citation is Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. Papers, Box WH 12a, Italy, 2/1/63 - 2/28/63.) A copy of the document, which is about as innocuous as it could be, was obtained by Secrecy News and is available here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/09/saragat.pdf Why did the CIA insist on the document's classification until very recently? Why was it declassified? To ask such questions presupposes that there is a rational basis to CIA's classification actions. But that may not be so. CIA classification policy is often unintelligible even to sympathetic observers. For example, in an attempt to explain how historical intelligence budget figures from fifty years ago could be properly withheld by the CIA even though current budget figures were declassified in 1997 and 1998, federal judge Ricardo M. Urbina was forced to conjecture last year that the DCI may have "made a poor decision in deciding to disclose the intelligence budget totals in 1997 and 1998." But there is no evidence to support such a conjecture. Like intelligence budget data and presidential briefing papers, among other things, biographical information on foreign leaders has been shielded by the CIA independent of any threat assessment associated with its disclosure. (The National Security Archive sought such biographical information in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit a few years ago.) The belated release of the CIA biography of Giuseppe Saragat thus marks a small departure from the Agency's otherwise indiscriminate secrecy. In a separate dispute, the DCI also vetoed an ISCAP decision to declassify a second CIA document in 2003. An appeal of that veto remains pending at the White House. KATRINA, THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PRESS An initial compilation of potentially toxic sites in the industrial areas in and around New Orleans that may require remedial action in the wake of Hurricane Katrina has been prepared by OMB Watch here: http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/3088/1/97?TopicID=1 Meanwhile, the Environmental Protection Agency has been slow to respond to requests for information about the environmental impacts of Katrina, according to the Society of Environmental Journalists. See the new SEJ report "A Flawed Tool-- Environmental Reporters' Experiences With the Freedom of Information Act": http://www.sej.org/foia/SEJ_FOIA_Report2005.pdf The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press has released a newly updated edition of its report on the effects of the war on terrorism on the public's right to know. See RCFP's "Homefront Confidential" here: http://www.rcfp.org/homefrontconfidential/Homefront_Confidential _6th.pdf Russ Kick of TheMemoryHole.org wonders aloud about the impact of Katrina on the biological research labs in New Orleans and the fate of their inventories of biological agents. See: http://www.thememoryblog.org/archives/000588.html SOLAR POWER FOR IRAQ The feasibility of using photovoltaic (PV) solar power to assist in rebuilding the Iraqi electrical infrastructure is examined in a recent study prepared at the Naval Postgraduate School. "Iraqi citizens have been forced to live with programmed electrical blackouts because of an insufficient power grid for many years, but solar PV systems could help minimize or eliminate this problem." While costs are substantial, the authors argue that solar photovoltaics offer significant compensating advantages. See "Operation Solar Eagle: A Study Examining Photovoltaic Solar Power as an Alternative for the Rebuilding of the Iraqi Electrical Power Generation Infrastructure" by Curtis Austin, Ralph Borja, and Jeffery Phillips, Naval Postgraduate School, June 2005 (187 pages, 2.5 MB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/man/eprint/iraqsolar.pdf SELECTED CRS REPORTS Some recent reports of the Congressional Research Service include the following: "Hurricane Katrina: Fishing and Aquaculture Industries -- Damage and Recovery," September 7, 2005 (via USCongress.com): http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22241.pdf "Emergency Communications: The Emergency Alert System (EAS) and All-Hazard Warnings," updated September 2, 2005 (via USCongress.com): http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL32527.pdf "'Fast Track' Congressional Consideration of Recommendations of the Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) Commission," updated September 1, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22144.pdf "Afghanistan: Post-War Governance, Security, and U.S. Policy," updated August 31, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL30588.pdf "Nuclear Testing and Comprehensive Test Ban: Chronology Starting September 1992," updated August 31, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/97-1007.pdf "F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Program: Background, Status, and Issues," updated August 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL30563.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:26:04 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:06:57 -0400 Subject: Re: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina - Hatch >From: Paul Stonehill <rurcla.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:46:39 +0000 >Subject: Re: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina >>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:04:55 -0400 >>Subject: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina >Dear Scott: >What do you know about the 1960 USO incident in the >Argentinian waters? >The Soviets were extremely interested, according to my >information. They had their own USO encounters and >research; Vladimir Ajaja and other respected Russian >researchers attest to that. >I went beyond their statements, and collected more >information and am interested in any Argentinian knowledge >of the incident, as well as their response to the Soviet >inquiries. >Perhaps other UFO UpDates contributors know of the incident? Hello Paul: I had not heard of the incident until now. I managed to Google up the following however: "En Febrero de 1960, en Golfo Nuevo (Argentina), la Armada Argentina persiguio' a dos extran~os "submarinos" que pareci'an burlarse del seguimiento durante dos semanas... Se pensaba que podri'an tratarse de submarinos sovie'ticos pero las capacidades de aquel "buque" superaban a cualquier nave de guerra fabricada por el hombre. Ocho meses antes al Armada argentina habi'a tenido problemas con otro OSNI con forma de pez y color plateado, con una gran aleta caudal vertical... su detallado descripcio'n fue obra de dos submarinistas que pudieron verlo." From this web page: http://revistainvestigacion.com/archivo.php?id=5&id2=38&id3=61 ...which I cannot vouch for. It appears to be a catalog of strange marine observations. 'USOs' (plural) become OSNIs in Spanish, "Objeto(s) Submarino No Identificado". The site above has all sorts of mysterious stuff: UFO, USO/OSNI, crypto- biology, occult and paranormal etc. Very roughly translated, I have it: "In February 1960, in New Gulf (Argentina), the Argentine Navy chased two strange "submarines" which seemed to laugh at (play games with?) the chase, for two weeks... It was thought they could be Soviet submarines, but the capabilities of these vessels exceeded those of any ships made by man. Eight months earlier, the Arg. Navy had had problems with another USO/OSNI in the shape of a fish of a silvery color, and a large voluminous (wide?) vertical fin ... the detailed description was made by two submariners who could see it. " A Google search for Argentina, 'Golfo Nuevo', 1960 and OSNI will
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:40:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:09:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO UpDates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:16:30 -0300 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:17:35 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>Maybe trilobites weren't the best example. But my point is >>correct. Billions of years doesn't mean a thing as far as >>evolution is concerned. And we do know that once life starts, it >>can be extinguished overnight. >No, Ed, your point is _not_ correct! You're serving us up quite >a feast here. We have apples and oranges, even nuts, red >herring, and baloney. >The fact that life can be extinguished overnight is not >important to our discussion as to whether or not a >civililization can possibly arise in another star system. This >is some of the 'red herring' on the menu. Any civilization can >be destroyed by any different number of ways. Life can become >extinct so easily. We all know this! This doesn't mean life >can't get a 'toe hold' on another planet, that is, it doesn't >mean life can't appear and begin the evolutionary process. It >can be wiped out after it starts, or get knocked back to square >one over and over again, or have its advancement interrupted so >that it doesn't progress very far, but it doesn't mean it can't >start. Either the conditions are right - all the ingredients are >there - or they're not. >Recent research being conducted into life on this planet >indicates life is a lot more vigorous and rigorous than first >thought. It will take hold and succeed in extemes of temperature >and under horrid (from our viewpoint) conditions, in fact, it >seems that wherever there is a source of energy and liquid >water, life begins. Even poisonous gases (to us) and acid >environments don't prevent it from doing its thing, and doing it >really, really well. >The effect of 'time' on the 'evolutionary process' and the >effect of 'time' on a technological civilization are two >completely different subjects for consideration - as different >as apples and oranges. You're trying to make them one and the >same. They're not! A billion years to the evolutionary process >affects whether it advances from something simple like, say, an >amoeba to something much more complicated like a mammal. A lot >can happen in a billion (or billions of) year(s). However, once >an advanced, intelligent organism has evolved and has created a >technological civilization, you're talking about something >completely different when you're talking about how a billion >years affects that _technological civilization_ as opposed to >how a billion years affects the development of life starting out >on a planet. >In one case, you're talking about time's influence on the >possible progression of life forms from simple to complicated, >while in the other case you're talking about time's influence on >someone's technology. Technology and 'life' are two completely >different things! Two completely different ball games, or apples >and oranges. You don't seem to be making this distinction. >Should a civilization that has technology survive for a billion >years, it's a good bet that that billion years will have a >tremendous effect on the progression of that technology. Just >look at what a tiny fraction of a billion years (just hundreds >or thousands of years) have meant to our technological progress. >Then you further add to the menu of apples, oranges, red >herring, and baloney by serving us this 'nutty' offering, which, >aside from your attempt to first merge apples and oranges, is >simply utter nonsense, "Billions of years doesn't mean a thing >as far as evolution is concerned." That sounds pretty definite! >Pretty absolute! And wrong! >On our own planet, billions of years _have_ made a big >difference. Such a period of time doesn't automatically >guarantee anything but the fact that it has made a difference >even once (on Earth) invalidates your statement above. I suspect >billions of years make a difference everywhere life takes hold. >Billions of years may not affect the 'evolutionary dead ends' >but I'll bet it always makes some kind of difference as to the >progression of life forms once the life process has started on a >planet. This is not tantamount to saying that billions of years >always produces an intelligent organism that creates a >technological civilization. >The bottom line is you're saying billions of years doesn't >matter to evolution (but you should look at what billions of >years have done to the evolutionary process on Earth) and you're >trying to make the evolution of life forms synonymous with >technology/technological civilization. >You're wrong on both counts! As I said, your point is _not_ >correct! >Since your whole arguement seems to revolve around these basic >and faulty views, you can't really make much of an impact on >common sense and logical, intelligent discussion with the rest >of your ideas concerning your AA monotreme (product of >convergent evolution which has to have evolved on Earth). Hi Eugene, I understand all the above and thankyou for your thoughtful reply. Yes time is a factor but only one among others. That's what I was trying, inadequately it seems, to point out. But time doesn't mean anything in evolutionary terms if life doesn't get started in the first place. Once life gets a toe hold, then time, chance, and temperature all become factors. We have no way of knowing whether life is common in the universe. It could be that every solar system is teeming with critters, flowers, fish and humanoids, or the universe may be barren except for our paltry existence. My point is that we have no evidence that life is common and endless time doesn't change that fact. We can theorize to our hearts content, but that's not evidence. You've sidetracked my main point which was that even if there were civilizations millions of years older than ours, and even if they had technology far superior to our own, it's not going to allow them to travel from star to star. All the known universe deals with the same atomic common currency: molecules. We are animated molecular machines, and can only travel the molar speed, which seems to be limited. That's where I'd like to go with this discussion and not be concerned right now about time or evolution. Does our molecular nature limit our movement in space? I'd like the discussion to be collaborative and not confrontational. Yesterday in my answer to David, I made the following comment: "Here's the problem as I see it: Water molecules which make up 95% of all life, break their chemical bonds at just a little above .02 of the speed of light, or 5100 miles per second. Isn't that a little slow for star travel?" See: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x23.htm There's a mistake I'd like to correct. The original article said that molecules break their chemical bonds at 5100m/s and I assumed that meant "miles" per second. I wrote Newton because of another problem and in their answer, they indicated that it wasn't miles/per/second, but meters/per second. I was very surprised! If they are correct in their calculations,then the speed limit for life is 11,400 miles per hour. Could that be correct? Does the formula that determines this limit seem correct? I don't have the answer. If it is correct, then why hasn't someone from the scientific
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 Re: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:47:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:11:52 -0400 Subject: Re: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina - Hatch >From: Paul Stonehill <rurcla.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 21:46:39 +0000 >Subject: Re: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina >>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:04:55 -0400 >>Subject: More UFOs In La Pampa Argentina >Dear Scott: >What do you know about the 1960 USO incident in the >Argentinian waters? >The Soviets were extremely interested .. <snip> I can bet that both the Soviet and Western military were interested in this incident. I Googled up a few more pages. This first one is much more detailed. It includes a map (showing even the minefield across the mouth of Golfo Nuevo) and a somewhat dismissive cartoon: http://www.editorialbitacora.com/bitacora/golfo/golfo.htm Here is an apparent copycat page, in case the first one doesn't come in properly: http://www.adimensional.info/imprimir.php?articulo=16 Look halfway down to ?Ma'quinas o monstruos? (Machines or Monsters?) on this page, for another treatment. http://www.lo-inexplicable.com.ar/osnis/flota_alienigena.htm Not much new, but it was "speed and maneuverability" which cast doubt on the original idea they were Soviet Subs. There are numerous other web pages, most of which repeat the above, or just touch on the subject.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 12 'Alien' Sighting In Thailand From: Terry W. Colvin<fortean1.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:01:17 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:14:07 -0400 Subject: 'Alien' Sighting In Thailand Source: Ananova.Com http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1533650.html?menu=news.quirkies Officials in Thailand are investigating claims by villagers who say they have seen an alien. About 10 people from Huay Nam Rak claims to have spotted the alien in a nearby rice field, reports The Nation. The 'extraterrestrial' was said to have a small body, a large head and didn't leave any footprints. It is reported the creature wandered around in the field for about an hour without taking any notice of the villagers. Sawaeng Boonyalak, 35, who was among those who rushed to see it, said: "The alien is about 70 cm high and has yellow skin and a flat chest. Its mouth is very tiny. It has bald big head with big eyes and big ears. "Suddenly, the alien floated to a tree top. After more villagers came to see it, it floated into the sky into the bright light." District chief Wisit Sitthisombat who interviewed the ten residents said they were consistent in their testimonies. He said: "I asked them to draw what they have seen and the pictures came out similarly."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:12:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:51:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Hatch >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:40:09 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:16:30 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? <snip> >Yesterday in my answer to David, I made the following comment: >"Here's the problem as I see it: Water molecules which make up >95% of all life, break their chemical bonds at just a little >above .02 of the speed of light, or 5100 miles per second. Isn't >that a little slow for star travel?" See: >http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x23.htm >There's a mistake I'd like to correct. >The original article said that molecules break their chemical >bonds at 5100m/s and I assumed that meant "miles" per second. >I wrote Newton because of another problem and in their answer, >they indicated that it wasn't miles/per/second, but meters/per >second. >I was very surprised! If they are correct in their calculations, then the speed limit for life is 11,400 miles per hour. Could that be correct? Does the formula that determines this limit seem correct? I don't have the answer. >If it is correct, then why hasn't someone from the scientific >community made it clear to us before this. It was just a fluke >that I found it. Is this common scientific knowledge? There's another mistake as I see it. From what I presume is the same source: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x23.htm "To accelerate completely intact molecules, your only method is to whack them with other molecules or the walls of your container. That is, you heat the material. You can do this until the speed of the molecules is so high that they break each other's chemical bonds when they collide." Got that? If a molecule at that speed whacks into something, anything, its enough energy to break the chemical bonds. No collisions, no breakdown. IF on the other hand, an object (an ice cube say) travels thru free-space, a vacuum, and NOT hitting anything, then it could continue along indefinitely with no damage or decomposition at all. One of the greatest fears of near-light-speed travel is that a grain of sand would act like a huge bomb, destroying the vessel. Maybe that's a better objection to interstellar travel, though one might expect highly advanced technology to solve that problem too. Relativity dictates that you cannot define the 'speed' of any object in isolation; but only with respect to some other object. The last I recall about some terminal speed like this, well under light-speed, was a pronouncement that railroad trains could never travel over 60 MPH (or some such) because the passengers could not breathe.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 02:09:24 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:56:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:40:09 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >I was very surprised! If they are correct in their >calculations,then the speed limit for life is 11,400 miles per >hour. Could that be correct? Does the formula that determines >this limit seem correct? I don't have the answer. Ed: I'm simply not going to discuss this any further with you because you don't have an inkling of an understanding of even basic science. You ask if the speed limit for life is 11,400 miles per hour and then say you don't have the answer! The answer should be immediately obvious! To get beyond Earth's atmosphere, it is necessary for a rocket to overcome the pull of Earth's gravity and, to do this, it has to reach a speed of 17, 800 mph or 28,500 km/h. At this velocity, the rocket is travelling at such a speed that the ground falls away as fast as gravity drags the rocket down, so that the rocket begins to fly in a circular path and starts to orbit Earth. To completely escape Earth's gravity, a rocket must exceed 25,200 mph or 40,320 km/h (Earth's escape velocity). Space probes use the 'slingshot effect' (use the movement of the Earth and other planets) to accelerate them even faster than this. These speeds all exceed your "speed limit for life." Astronauts went to the moon and returned safely. They didn't fall apart! Their vehicles didn't disintegrate! Your 'molecular limitation' theory is pure rubbish. >I'd like the discussion to be collaborative and not >confrontational. I'm not being confrontational. You're just slamming into hard reality. >You've sidetracked my main point which was that even if there >were civilizations millions of years older than ours, and even >if they had technology far superior to our own, it's not going >to allow them to travel from star to star. What? Sidetracked your main point? You used an utter piece of nonsense (that billions of years didn't matter to evolution - that's not how evolution works) to support your theory (which is another piece of nonsense) that interstellar travel was impossible because no amount of time would allow a civilization to develop technology that could get it from star to star, and, when someone deals with the nonsense you used in support of your theory, you say that this is sidetracking. Well, I guess that's one convenient way to avoid the issues under discussion. >All the known universe deals with the same atomic common >currency: molecules. We are animated molecular machines, and can >only travel the molar speed, which seems to be limited. That's >where I'd like to go with this discussion and not be concerned >right now about time or evolution. Does our molecular nature >limit our movement in space? <snip> >Yesterday in my answer to David, I made the following comment: >"Here's the problem as I see it: Water molecules which make up >95% of all life, break their chemical bonds at just a little >above .02 of the speed of light, or 5100 miles per second. Isn't >that a little slow for star travel?" Why can't you let go of this ridiculous belief? Even assuming that pushing macroscopic matter through space is the only way of getting to the stars, it doesn't have to be pushed faster than, or exactly at, light speed. Speeds slower than light are adequate. Matter isn't going to disintegrate as it accelerates to velocities that are significant percentages of the speed of light. David Rudiak used the 'pool table in an aircraft' analogy to try to explain to you that if all the molecules accelerated together and moved as a unit, they wouldn't be torn apart. Everything on Earth is moving with the Earth. Do you feel the Earth's motion or notice it? Everything is moving together. As the Earth is revolving around the sun, it's rotating around its axis, the axis is describing a circle that takes 25,800 years to complete (which leads to the precession of the equinoxes), it's wobbling side to side (caused by the pull of the moon and sun on the Earth's equatorial bulges) as it moves with the sun through interstellar space while the galaxies are rotating and flying apart, and these are only some of the motions in different directions you're being subjected to (all at a very good clip). Is everything getting torn apart? No, because everything is moving together! There might be concern as to whether the material the ship was made of could withstand the forces of acceleration and not fracture along weaknesses, or because the acceleration was too sudden, but all the molecules aren't going to become unglued during a gradual but steady acceleration simply because a certain speed was reached. I'm not going to again go into what quantum physics says could be possible when it comes to moving information around in a (possible) holographic universe. You're going to stick with the belief that interstellar travel is impossible no matter what anyone says. You're trying to argue a point with scientific principles that you clearly have absolutely no understanding of and which you clearly misunderstand. Also, you say you've closely examined the body in the AA film. No, you haven't! You've been dealing solely with images of it, or do you have the body somewhere? How closely can you examine something by watching a film of it? Really, you've made no analysis whatsoever of it. In actuality, you haven't come within miles of the alleged creature! You can't know anything about it, let
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Gottschall From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:25:40 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:02:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Gottschall >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 09:51:29 -0500 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:30:32 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:21:06 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 ><snip> >>>The contactee movement represents a mystical-religious >>>response to the UFO phenomenon. By now several books and a >>>number of papers in professional journals have examined the >>>movement in that light. I have contributed a paper to a Syracuse >>>University Press book in progress on that very subject. >>if you have the time can you give that to me in a nut-shell or >>do you have a similar paper on a web site somewhere? I've looked >>for other links but can't find any by anyone. Now you've got me >>curious. >I have written about the origins of the contactee movement in my >UFO Encyclopedia and also on the careers of specific contactees. >Adamski gets particularly detailed treatment there. <snip> >Yes, some are crooked, and some are crazy, but not all; what's >going on is the continuation of an occult-religious tradition >rooted in good part in Theosophy. Hi Jerry, I re-read some of the entries in the UFO Encyclopedia through to 1959 last night. (that's one heavy book to manage holding up in bed!) I didn't find your writing specifically addressing contactee origins, but I did come across an entry that quotes you as saying: "In a longer follow-up article Clark suggested that UFOs are a phenomenon whose true nature is unknowable but which is experienced as something that conforms to witnesses' cultural expectations; in other words, before the nineteenth century people observed "gods and wizards"... Today, in the Space Age, we are led to believe that 'flying saucers' are spacecraft." --Clark 1966
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Deardorff From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:32:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:05:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Deardorff >From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 01:46:19 +1000 >Subject: Meier's Contact Report >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:30:50 -0700 >>Subject: Meier's Contact Reports [was: Exopolitics Courses...] >>>From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:57:39 +1000 >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 <snip> >I can't conclusively prove that Meier faked these predictions >after the event, but it seems that he can't prove that he did. >So it's a wash; they're worthless as proof of the reality of his >other claims. ... If your goal is to prove the man's a faker and hoaxer, you'd need to look into the evidence that he's not, which includes lots of witnesses' reports in support. In court you wouldn't be allowed to ignore that evidence. Otherwise, Meier was reporting what he remembered having seen from the spacecraft a couple years earlier, as viewed through some port, and reporting what Semjase had told him then in explanation. You might also need to look into logical reasons why ETI would include some disinformation in what they tell their contactee, which a non-scientist wouldn't be able to detect, and ponder the inconvenience of ETI being sufficiently smarter than us to allow them to get away with it, without the scientific establishment catching on. >But if you are >going to claim Meier's correct statements as evidence for his ET >contacts, but discard any incorrect statements as ET >disinformation, then you've got an unfalsifiable claim here. >Heads you win, tails I lose ... If you allowed that ETs could be smarter than us, you'd be in a position to be able to switch to the winning side. But anyway, that's why I prefer to concentrate on Meier's photo evidence from the various Swiss sites, and the witness reports. It's simply unacceptable within email-list ufology to look into,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:48:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:08:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Gehrman >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:35:02 -0300 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:19:46 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>However, elementary particles aren't minature ping pong balls >>and certainly don't act like tiny little ping pong balls. >>Quantum physics paints a very different picture of them. They >>are strange little entities that don't behave anything like >>matter at the macroscopic level (molecules, for example) does. >Regarding these miniature 'ping pong ball' particles and their >apparent property of 'non-locality,' I refer you to an excellent >article by Francisco J. (Joe) Lewells, Ph.D. entitled 'Over the >Rainbow: Quantum Physics Discovers the Holographic Universe' >found on pages 119-134 of the MUFON 1995 International UFO >Symposium proceedings (Ufology: A Scientific Paradigm). >Well worth the read! Eugene, Why? What does he say about molecules? >If what Lewells is talking about is true, >you will be able to see why your 'molecules needing to be >accelerated to light speed and pushed through the vastness of >space' notion, and your 'limits imposed by the breaking of the >molecular bonds of water at a speed only a tiny percentage of >the speed of light', may represent the crudest and most >primative way of reaching the stars as well as an obstacle that >is only a mirage on the highway to other star systems. Again why? Don't ask me to read something you can't explain. >Maybe the 'Zeta Reticulians' have a better way of skinning >Felinus interstellarus (the 'ol interstellar cat').
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Villagers Claim ET Sighting From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:13:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:13:00 -0400 Subject: Villagers Claim ET Sighting Source: The Nation - Bangkok, Thailand http://www.komchadluek.net/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=80968 Sep 09 2005 Villagers Claim ET Sighting Chiang Rai - Villagers claimed they today (Friday) morning witnessed an "alien" or extra-terrestrial being which appeared like a small-body man with large head and about 70 centimetres tall. Over 10 residents of Huay Nam Rak Village in Mae Jan district's Tambon Janjawa said they saw the ET today morning in a rice field outside the village. Sawaeng Boonyalak, 35, said he heard from friends that they saw the alien so he rushed to see it. "The alien is about 70 cm high and has yellow skin and flat chest. Its mouth is very tiny. It has bald big head with big eyes and big ears," Sawaeng said. He claimed that several villagers also witnessed the ET at the same time with him. Sawaeng said the alien wandered around in the field for about an hour without caring the villagers who were looking at it. "Suddenly, the alien floated to a tree top. After more villagers came to see it, it floated into the sky into the bright light," Sawaeng said. He said villagers did not find any foot print of the being in the area. Buakaew Intaweng, 59, said she initially thought the alien was a doll but it could move around. Mae Jan district chief Wisit Sitthisombat said he interviewed over ten villagers and they consistently testified about sighting the alien.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Judicial Follies From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:42:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:42:45 -0400 Subject: Judicial Follies Source: The Ukiah Daily Journal - Ukiah, California http://tinyurl.com/csg3b Monday, September 12, 2005 Judicial Follies Alienating Your Employer By Frank Zotter Jr. A quarter century ago, the expense of copy machines came down so much that photocopies cost less than a nickel apiece, and photocopying became America's favorite method of reproduction. The saying in those days was that Gutenberg made it possible for everyone to be a writer; Xerox made it possible for everyone to become a publisher. The Internet has gone a step further: it has made it possible for everyone to become his own publicist. No matter how absurd the cause or how wacky the belief, there is a web site out there devoted to it. Ah, for the simpler days of yore - like way, way back about 1990 - when folks who trafficked in Elvis sightings or gunmen on the grassy knoll were relegated to the fringe where they belong. Consider, for example, Larry Bryant's fight with the Defense Department over his beliefs in little green men. Well, maybe "little green men"is too specific. But Bryant clearly grew up watching too many episodes of "The Invaders"or "Twilight Zone." According to Judge K. K. Hall of the federal appeals court in Virginia, Bryant was a civilian employee of the Army for more than 30 years. Beginning in 1981, he wrote news items for the Army News Service, a wire service disseminating information to Army installations around the world. Judge Hall described him as someone who apparently was quite good at this job; he was consistently rated "exceptional" by his supervisors - until 1986, that is, when he unexpectedly received an "unsatisfactory." It seems that Bryant suspected the Army had an ulterior motive for giving him that low rating after so many years of good performance. Bryant, Judge Hall explained, was "convinced that the government has concealed evidence of UFO visits." In fact, Bryant was the director of the Washington, D.C., office of something called "Citizens Against UFO Secrecy"(CAUS). In 1983, Bryant, on behalf of CAUS, filed a civil action in district court in the District of Columbia which he called a "Writ of Habeas Corpus Extraterrestrial." In this suit, he sought to compel the Air Force to produce the bodies of space creatures that Bryant claimed the Air Force had retrieved from crashed flying saucers. This suit was eventually dismissed, but not until it had generated a good deal of publicity. Sadly, because it was never appealed, there are no readily available copies of the lawsuit (or the judge's ruling, which would have been an irresistible opportunity for some judicial humor of its own). Still, one has to hand it to Bryant - he knows his legal terminology. "Habeas corpus"literally means "produce the body." Thus, his lawsuit translated to "produce the bod(ies) - of the extraterrestrials." While the courts were busy wrestling with that legal effort, in late 1984 and early 1985, Bryant submitted paid classified advertisements to some of the newspapers in which his own wire stories were published, seeking information from the papers' military audience about the government's alleged coverup of the UFO menace. The ads didn't use Bryant's name; they were listed as being placed by CAUS, but they did give his home address for replies. Some of the advertisements were printed, but others were rejected by the publishers. Bryant never identified himself as a federal employee in these off-duty pursuits. In 1986, Bryant received that "unsatisfactory" rating from one of the Army captains who oversaw his work. The captain claimed that it was because the quality of Bryant's work had declined; Bryant even was placed on a probationary status for a while, although he later attained the higher rating and the "unsatisfactory"was expunged. Bryant nevertheless was unhappy. He filed a lawsuit claiming the Army had retaliated against him for his valiant attempts to expose the government cover-up of visits by UFOs. The trial judge dismissed the lawsuit and Judge Hall's court upheld him. Although Bryant claimed that his right to free speech had been violated, Hall agreed with the trial judge that Bryant had not been injured (his unsatisfactory rating had, after all, been expunged,) but also that the Army proved it would have taken the actions it did anyway, even if Bryant's extracurricular activities had not been about extraterrestrials. Bryant, no doubt, took the judge's ruling as further evidence
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 The Space Review From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:50:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:50:01 -0400 Subject: The Space Review Source: The Space Review http://www.thespacereview.com/article/444/1 Tuesday, September 6, 2005 SETI Politics by Gregory Anderson SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, has a fundamentally fascinating hypothesis. Not only do SETI researchers assume extraterrestrial life exists, which most mainstream scientists now take as a given, but they further theorize extraterrestrial civilizations exist that can be detected from Earth. Since about 1960, a handful of SETI researchers have tested that hypothesis by scanning the heavens using radio telescopes and increasingly powerful, sophisticated search programs. Optical SETI, looking for ET laser pulses, is now beginning. The political situation of the times, however, has pushed those interested in SETI into a narrow philosophical position. Most humans want their life=92s work to be something respectable, especially to friends and close associates, and SETI researchers are no different. Unfortunately for them, SETI has not always been respected by the scientific community at large, and certainly not by Congress. NASA started a modest SETI program in 1992, but Congress quickly shut it down. Since then, American SETI programs have been university-funded, or funded through private donations. The SETI community has been trying to establish the credibility of its chosen field ever since. Perhaps logically, the time of SETI has coincided with the UFO era, and SETI researchers have constantly tried to keep their work distinct from those investigating Roswell and Area 51. Part of that effort is straightforward=97the astronomers and physicists involved don=92t take UFO stories seriously. Part of it, however, is about respectability. SETI researchers are convinced theirs is the way to find sentient life among the stars, and they want to pursue their work without being called crackpots. Research requires funding, and funding demands a certain level of respectability. Getting money and striving for respect, however, seems to have put SETI researchers like Seth Shostak and Jill Tarter in a box. To justify continuing SETI work, they must argue that the existence of advanced technological civilizations elsewhere in the Milky Way, given what modern science knows, is perfectly possible. On the other hand, however, largely to build the respectability of their efforts, they also argue that interstellar travel is so difficult, and will always remain so, that no civilization will ever master it. That stance accomplishes two objectives. First, it dismisses the idea that UFOs might be interstellar craft. Second, it enshrines SETI=97their passion=97as the only way to ever answer the question: Are we alone? Nothing in human history, however, suggests there is a plateau that civilization, science, and technology can reach but never go beyond. Indeed, though human civilization is still young, the sweep of history could be taken to argue exactly the opposite. Is interstellar flight impossible? Not theoretically. Humans have already come up with various, seemingly workable, starship designs. Given enough time, human migration to the stars will likely be at least possible. Whether it ever happens is another matter. Dr. Shostak argues that interstellar travel will always be so expensive that societies will always elect to explore deep space through some version of SETI=97by communicating through radio transmission or other long-distance means with other civilizations. Scientific research, Shostak seems to assume, will be the only driver of interstellar travel, and will never command the resources in any society to mount such daunting missions. Both those assumptions are open to question. First, any civilization in a position to seriously consider interstellar flight will be fabulously wealthy=97quite literally, wealthy beyond any human imagination. A society that wealthy may well have an incredibly large budget, and taste, for scientific knowledge; after all material needs are met, new ideas and new physical vistas might be the point of life. Second, if human history is any guide, there will be more than one reason to go to the stars. Scientific research may be one. After all, by the argument of the SETI researchers, those solar systems without transmitting civilizations will be black holes otherwise. Long- term economics and trade may be another driver; establishing English colonies in North America led to extraordinary economic advances over 300-odd years, and a civilization on the edge of interstellar flight could easily consider such time frames in its policy. There may also be political reasons, philosophical reasons, and reasons related to survival. Making one=92s species immortal by establishing it in more than one solar system could be the ultimate expression of evolution=92s survival drive. By rejecting the possibility of interstellar migration, SETI researchers might be ruling out the best scenario for the success of their own enterprise. To be successful, humans must be doing SETI at the same time others are transmitting. Postulating unrelated species exchanging information and chattering away makes SETI a crapshoot. Postulating regular communication among related civilizations in several star systems makes a successful SETI effort not only more likely=97it makes the effort more defensible. That, of course, would mean embracing interstellar flight as a possibility. Whether SETI researchers are prepared to open themselves to cracks about Little Green Men zipping through spacetime in flying saucers is
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Response To The Space Review From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:54:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:54:47 -0400 Subject: Response To The Space Review Source: The Space Review http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 Monday, September 12, 2005 Letter: Response To Seti Politics by Seth Shostak While I am gratified that Gregory Anderson has addressed the matter of "SETI politics" in his recent article (see "SETI politics", The Space Review, September 6, 2005), I believe that some of his facts are wrong and his arguments skewed. His take on the respectability of SETI in the scientific community is unduly pessimistic. While there are certainly individual scientists who are doubtful about the chances of a SETI detection, SETI has been specifically called out as a legitimate and worthy endeavor by the astronomical community in decadal reviews. This is an endorsement of considerable weight. Anderson also writes=97erroneously=97that "NASA started a modest SETI program in 1992," but in fact the NASA SETI program dates from the mid-1970s. It was a long-term, but modest program that developed both observing strategies and the requisite technology. I'm not quite sure what the point is, but Anderson writes "Perhaps logically, the time of SETI has coincided with the UFO era=85" This may be true if one speaks of geological time, but Roswell (the only UFO incident named by Anderson) was 1947, and the first SETI observations were a dozen years later. These are all technical nits. Of greater consequence is Mr. Anderson's mis-characterization of my opinion on interstellar travel, on which he writes "Shostak argues that interstellar travel will always be so expensive that societies will always elect to explore deep space through some version of SETI." This is not my view at all. I have no idea whether interstellar travel for exploration will happen sooner or later, but I'm rather optimistic that it will eventually happen. I think that interstellar travel for biological beings is a long shot frankly, but if you're either willing to send telesensing apparatus, or just spend a long time getting there, then going to the stars is possible, and at some level of technology, feasible. I think, however, it is worth noting that our ability to build good telesensing equipment is far outpacing our efforts at making enormously faster rockets. Ergo, I suspect that we will send equipment, rather than ourselves, for any direct interstellar exploration. That's my view of things. Mr. Anderson thinks otherwise, noting for example that "Long-term economics and trade may be another driver [for interstellar travel]; establishing English colonies in North America led to extraordinary economic advances=85" I respectfully point out that such examples all involved members of the same species, and even then, "trade" was not the driver. The Europeans did not wish to trade with the Aztecs (what did the Aztecs import?) but merely put them to work in silver mines. And the Mesoamerican cultures are estimated to have been only 500 years behind their European counterparts in terms of technical development. The difference between interstellar societies will be far greater. Mr. Anderson's true agenda is to plead that SETI researchers should be accepting of "Little Green Men zipping through spacetime in flying saucers." I would be happy to accept this idea if there were only convincing proof. When discussing alien UFOs, it is a common canard to argue that the SETI community's skepticism is simply due to their failure to be open to the idea. That's wrong. Their skepticism is rooted in the lack of good evidence.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:14:56 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:58:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Dickenson >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:12:49 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:40:09 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:16:30 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? ><snip> >IF on the other hand, an object (an ice cube say) travels thru >free-space, a vacuum, and NOT hitting anything, then it could >continue along indefinitely with no damage or decomposition at >all. >One of the greatest fears of near-light-speed travel is that a >grain of sand would act like a huge bomb, destroying the vessel. >Maybe that's a better objection to interstellar travel, though >one might expect highly advanced technology to solve that >problem too. <snip> >The last I recall about some terminal speed like this, well >under light-speed, was a pronouncement that railroad trains >could never travel over 60 MPH (or some such) because the >passengers could not breathe. Hello Larry, Think science developments, not generally known (or remembered), mean all that warning stuff's been superseded. a) robots do the 'slow' traveling, then set up tx/rx stations - what for? b) quantum entanglement means that patterns probably _can_ travel much faster than light, and disregard all intervening matter, grains of sand or even stars or planets; c) all that's needed would be the appropriate mix of chemicals (molecules) with which to re-assemble. BTW - Think that early 'science' warning about trains (in UK) said 20 mph or 30 mph was the limit for breathable air, and seem to remember reading that someone also applied that to autos. Cheers Ray D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 13 Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:46:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:04:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:13:00 -0400 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >Source: The Nation - Bangkok, Thailand >http://www.komchadluek.net/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=80968 >Sep 09 2005 >Villagers Claim ET Sighting <snip> Well well! This story may be interesting after all. Now we have a date, Friday 9 SEPT 2005; a rough location (Mae Jan district, aka Mai Chan) which can be found independently of the story, and a local source independent of Ananova. Maybe my earlier doubts were premature. I see that Google references to Huay Nam Rak Village have grown from 3 to around a dozen in the space of a few hours. Can anyone locate the village more precisely? Distance and direction from some place with known Longitude and Latitude would be best.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:50:26 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:53:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison >>>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:35:02 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:19:46 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:48:53 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? Ed: This is my last communication on this with you and probably on anything else! You simply have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about and anything that's explained to you goes as far over your head as the alleged interstellar vehicles we're talking about probably do. You not only don't understand basic science but you twist it into some bizarre misunderstanding to support beliefs that you come to in an absolute vacuum of evidence. >>>However, elementary particles aren't minature ping pong balls >>>and certainly don't act like tiny little ping pong balls. >>>Quantum physics paints a very different picture of them. They >>>are strange little entities that don't behave anything like >>>matter at the macroscopic level (molecules, for example) does. >>Regarding these miniature 'ping pong ball' particles and their >>apparent property of 'non-locality,' I refer you to an excellent >>article by Francisco J. (Joe) Lewells, Ph.D. entitled 'Over the >>Rainbow: Quantum Physics Discovers the Holographic Universe' >>found on pages 119-134 of the MUFON 1995 International UFO >>Symposium proceedings (Ufology: A Scientific Paradigm). >>Well worth the read! >Eugene, >Why? What does he say about molecules? He doesn't say anything about molecules! Nothing at all! Zilch! Not a single word! (At least not in the context you're fixed upon.) That's the whole point! Molecules don't even enter the picture for consideration; they're not important. Quantum physics hints that it may be possible to move things without resorting to pushing molecules at high velocities through the vastness of space. >>If what Lewells is talking about is true, >>you will be able to see why your 'molecules needing to be >>accelerated to light speed and pushed through the vastness of >>space' notion, and your 'limits imposed by the breaking of the >>molecular bonds of water at a speed only a tiny percentage of >>the speed of light', may represent the crudest and most >>primative way of reaching the stars as well as an obstacle that >>is only a mirage on the highway to other star systems. >Again why? Don't ask me to read something you can't explain. Why? If you read it, you'll know why. That's why I refered you to the article - to show you how an advanced (technologically) civilization may have gotten around your 'molecular limit' theory (which is pure rubbish anyway and doesn't even need quantum physics to circumvent it). But you haven't read it so you don't have a clue as to 'why.' Oh, I _can_ explain it to you! But I see now you won't be understanding it. So perhaps it's a good idea you don't read it. Anyway, I don't care if you read it or not. It's your ignorance that continues, not mine! And, just so you'll see that you're missing most of what's being explained to you, I _did_ give a basic explanation of it in some of my earlier replies to you (see the information on ubiguitous energy fields). >>Maybe the 'Zeta Reticulians' have a better way of skinning >>Felinus interstellarus (the 'ol interstellar cat'). >Why not describe how this might happen. Describe how this might happen? I did! The knife they might be using was the 'quantum knife' I mentioned. I briefly described the basic principle behind this. You didn't recognize my 'describing' how this might happen; you missed the basics. Is it that you need a more elaborate explanation, a more extensive description? If you can't understand how exceeding the velocity that makes space probes enter orbit around Earth doesn't result in disintegration of water molecules in the human body (and you didn't know that your 'molecular limit' has thus been broken already numerous times), are you really able to understand the concept of non-locality, that is, how subatomic particles may exist in a seperate reality where information exists in all places at once and not just in specific locations and each particle may be encoded with the information to reproduce the entire universe. Are you informed enough to be able to discuss these concepts with me, with the list? Can you grasp the idea that subatomic particles (which seem to be able to communicate instantly over vast distances by apparently sharing information at a speed faster than light but may not actually be doing so because, more amazingly, the information already exists simultaneously in both places) may be interconnected with everything else, including the human mind - and do you possess enough information to be able to intelligently discuss this concept with me and the rest of the list? Do you understand how a hologram is produced and how holographic principles may underlie all reality? Can you participate in a discussion of these in an informed, logical manner? Ed, without any disrespect, you clearly cannot participate in such a discussion because you clearly have 'no idea' when it comes to these subjects, and even your understanding of basic science and facts is embarrassing. Since you prefer to not even acquaint yourself with some of the ideas in quantum physics by reading the article I suggested and aren't receptive to information that I, nor anyone else, provides you with - prefering instead to adhere to a 'science'
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Response To The Space Review - Beasley From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:59:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Beasley >Source: The Space Review >http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 >Monday, September 12, 2005 >Letter: Response To Seti Politics >by Seth Shostak >Mr. Anderson's true agenda is to plead that SETI researchers >should be accepting of "Little Green Men zipping through >spacetime in flying saucers." I would be happy to accept this >idea if there were only convincing proof. This is the part that rubs me absolutely raw about Shostak's arrogant and, frankly, defensive take on this debate. If one is talking about "proof", that is, _data_, we have data in search of a working theory. That's where scientific investigation usually starts, attempt to explain a phenomenon or system via data- gathering and further theory. SETI is a theory in search of data. End of story. As a reasonable man, I respect SETI as a pioneering and obvious avenue of exploration. I really and truly think it will bear fruit. I bear it no hostility and do not feel threatened by it. Shostak does not share this equanimity, and I think Mr. Anderson is right in his judgement that it isn't scientific disdain. It's a bit of fear that SETI has only ideas, equipment, and no data. A circling of the wagons. "When discussing alien UFOs, it is a common canard to argue that the SETI community's skepticism is simply due to their failure to be open to the idea. That's wrong. Their skepticism is rooted in the lack of good evidence." Oh, they're certainly _not_ open to ufology, all disingenuous claims to the contrary. But if "their skepticism is rooted in the lack of good evidence", what should we make of their lack of any evidence at all?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:03:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Hamilton >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:40:09 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:16:30 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:17:35 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? <snip> >Yesterday in my answer to David, I made the following comment: >"Here's the problem as I see it: Water molecules which make up >95% of all life, break their chemical bonds at just a little >above .02 of the speed of light, or 5100 miles per second. Isn't >that a little slow for star travel?" See: >http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x23.htm >There's a mistake I'd like to correct. Ed, In my estimation this is not a problem. After making a study of UFO dynamics it is plain to me that the occupants do not experience the forces of acceleration nor is their relative speed contained within the field of the craft anywhere near .02 of the speed of light. The earth moving with the sun has a velocity in its orbit around the galaxy. The Sun's circular velocity around the center of the Milky Way galaxy is measured to be vc = 220 km/s at its radius of R = 8 kpc. Our galaxy, and the Local Group of galaxies of which we are part, has been shown to be moving toward the Great Attractor with a peculiar velocity of 570 km/s (measured against the Cosmic Microwave Background). Lets see, for 220 km/s that would be 220,000 meters/sec. Our water molecules must be flying apart! Why don't they? Because we are coupled in our velocity and acceleration (in orbit) to the earth's gravity field. Our spaceship occupants have a similar coupling to their ship's field and do not
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:41:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:08:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 - Clark >From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:25:40 +1000 >Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 09:51:29 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:30:32 +1000 >>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:21:06 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Exopolitics Courses For Fall 2005 >>>>The contactee movement represents a mystical-religious >>>>response to the UFO phenomenon. By now several books and a >>>>number of papers in professional journals have examined the >>>>movement in that light. I have contributed a paper to a Syracuse >>>>University Press book in progress on that very subject. >>>if you have the time can you give that to me in a nut-shell >>>or do you have a similar paper on a web site somewhere? I've >>>looked for other links but can't find any by anyone. Now you've >>>got me curious. >>I have written about the origins of the contactee movement in >>my UFO Encyclopedia and also on the careers of specific >>contactees. Adamski gets particularly detailed treatment there. >I re-read some of the entries in the UFO Encyclopedia through >to 1959 last night. (that's one heavy book to manage holding up >in bed!) See the discussion in Contactees, UFO Encyclopedia, 2nd ed., esp. 243-44, for examples of 19th-Century-style contacteeism and the link with occultism. In that sense Adamski, himself a teacher of a Theosophy-based occultism prior to his flying- saucer claims, is a direct continuation of that tradition. For a more detailed discussion, you should start, however, with the Stupple JUFOS paper I cited earlier. >"In a longer follow-up article Clark suggested that UFOs are a phenomenon whose true nature is unknowable but which is experienced as something that conforms to witnesses' cultural expectations; in other words, before the nineteenth century people observed "gods and wizards"... Today, in the Space Age, we are led to believe that 'flying saucers' are spacecraft." > --Clark 1966 >Do you still agree with yourself today? Do I still agree with myself today? Well, it depends on whether I've had a good night's sleep, what side of the bed I've woken on, whether I've had my first cup of coffee, whether it's sunny or cloudy (cloudy at the moment, alas) outside. Many are the variables bearing on this question. Seriously: My own views, of course, have evolved over four decades, and my assessment of the opinions I held back then is well known to anyone who has read what I've written over the years. For my current views, the introductory essay to Unexplained! or the essay From Mermaids To Little Gray Men (The Anomalist, Spring 2000) or my new book Unnatural Phenomena (ABC-CLIO, 2005)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:44:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:10:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Hamilton >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:43:38 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:17:35 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:30:56 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:55:31 -0700 >>>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? ><snip> >>If we research a subject and try to find out all that is known, >>for sure, then"as far as we know" means that we've reached the >>limits of our knowledge. I realize that there may be information >>that is missing or unknown, but as far as we know there has >>never been any light speed travel. There may be light speed >>travel, but as far as we know there isn't any evidence that it >>has taken place. >The contention of the ETH is that UFOs _do_ represent evidence >of interstellar travel, which could be at sub-light or faster- >than-light speeds. Again you seem to be fixated on the strange >idea that interstellar travel could only occur at exactly light >speed. >>>If there >>>have been crash recoveries with bodies recovered having >>>physiology and biochemistry so remarkably different than >>>anything else here on earth that they couldn't have evolved >>>here, then they would establish with certainty that the beings >>>and their ships were extraterrestrial. That would mean they >>>either come from other stellar systems in our known universe or >>>from some other universe. Either way, they would not be of this >>>earth. >>Maybe you could tell me where I might find one of these bodies. >Maybe you can likewise tell us where we might find one of your >earthly humanoid monotremes of the AA film. I would presume in >the same place as one of our presumed ET aliens. >>The only bodies I'm familiar with are the AA creatures and while >>their physiology seems similar in some ways to humans, we have >>no way to measure the biochemistry from film footage. We can't >>rely on the MJ12 documents for any information regarding either >>the physiology and biochemistry. >The AA film is no more reliable a piece of evidence about the >physiology or anatomy then, say, several of Leonard >Stringfield's leaker sources, who may or may not have been >telling the truth. >>There shouldn't be any mystery. I base my assertions on my very >>close examination of the AA creature and the small amount of >>debris footage. It's a matter of extrapolation. >Plus the following hidden assumptions: 1) the AA film is >absolutely for real and not a hoax or fake; 2) the creatures >could not look similar to us unless they arose on Earth. Both >assumptions are contentious, not to mention your ability to >extrapolate so much from so little. >>>Despite Ed's naysaying, NASA has a small research effort right >>>now devoted to possible interstellar propulsion systems. This >>>was started during the reign of previous NASA director Dan >>>Golden, who set a goal of launching a small interstellar probe >>>within the next 40 years. >>That's interesting. At what speed will the probe travel? >The goal was 10% of light speed. >>>>...In order to travel from star to star, >>>>these star-craft must travel at the speed of light (186,000 >>>>miles per second) and I just don't think that will ever be >>>>possible. >>>This is utter nonsense. Why would it be necessary to travel at >>>literal light speed? Why not sublight speed? ><snip> >>>Sublight travel at 10% or 20% of light speed would still be >>>quite adequate to move between adjacent stars. It would just >>>take longer than light-speed or faster-than-light speed. >>Here's the problem as I see it: Water molecules which make up >>95% of all life, break their chemical bonds at just a little >>above .02 of the speed of light, or 5100 miles per second. Isn't >>that a little slow for star travel? See: >>http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x23.htm >>"You can do this until the speed of the molecules is so high >>that they break each other's chemical bonds when they collide. >>To find out how fast this is, we compare energies: the energy of a >>typical chemical bond is about 400 kJ/mol, for example the >>O-H bond energy in water is 467 kJ/mol. When the average kinetic >>energy of the molecules reaches this point, then a typical collision >>liberates enough energy to break the bond...." >This, unfortunately, is yet another example of where Ed doesn't >understand the science, resulting in false conclusions about >what or what is not possible. He is confusing the velocities of >the individual molecules with the velocity of the overall >_system_. As the system, i.e., all atoms and molecules, speed up >together, their velocities _relative to one another_ do not >change. >Imagine the following thought experiment. Let billiard balls on >a pool table represent molecules moving around and bumping into >one another. If their speed and energy is high enough when they >collide, the billiard balls will shatter, analagous to Ed's >molecules breaking apart. Suppose 2 billiard balls slamming into >one another at 100 mph would cause them to shatter. Thus by Ed's >logic, if you put the pool table with balls on a jet airplane >and accelerate them to 600 mph, all the billiard balls will >shatter to smithereens as they careen around because they are >exceeding 100 mph. >But we all know what really happens. Playing pool at 600 mph on >a jet airplane is no different than playing pool on the ground. >The balls move around just like they do on the ground and they >do not shatter. The system of pool table plus balls has been >speeded up _relative to the ground_, but _within the system_ >itself, the velocities do not change. On the plane, the pool >table does not seem to be moving; the balls are not smashing >into one another at ~600 mph, but at normal billiard ball >velocities. >The same is true with a spaceship. Matter will _not_ fall apart >when the speed of the spaceship _relative to Earth_ exceeds the >bonding energies of the various molecules therein. Exactly. And as I also posted and will add to here, the alien spacecraft has been demonstrated to have a surrounding field which may be a form of artificial gravity that contains the occupants in such a way that they (and the airframe of the craft) do not experience acceleration forces. The UFOs characteristic behavior of almost instant acceleration, right- angle turns, even 180-degree turns, stopping on a dime, and all those aerobatic manuevers that set them apart from convntional
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:20:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:20:29 -0400 Subject: UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled Source: The Louth Leader - Lincolnshire - UK http://tinyurl.com/965jv 13-09-05 UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled Reports of bright, orange orbs over Louth have left experts baffled. The balls of multi-coloured light were seen by residents in St Bernard's Avenue around 10pm last Sunday. Two weeks ago three similar sightings off the coast of Trusthorpe were explained as being made by afterburners from military aircraft on exercise. But RAF bosses said this time there had been no fighter jets around the Louth area at that time last Sunday. Steve Whittleton, 34, from St Bernard's Avenue, said: "I saw two UFOs - I'm certain of that. "There were two massive orange balls right above me, moving slowly. "I wanted to rub my eyes but I did not want to miss them. I told my wife, but she thought I was bonkers but I know what I saw." A spokesman at The Coastguard HQ in Great Yarmouth said the strange lights seen over Trusthorpe, last week, were nothing to be concerned about =96 and were likely to have been made by military aircraft. But an RAF spokesman said Sunday's orange balls were a mystery. They said: "We don't think there were any jets in the sky at the time. It's very unusual." The spokesman said Air Traffic Control had been closed on Friday
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:44:41 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:21:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Rimmer >From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 01:46:19 +1000 >Subject: Meier's Contact Report >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:30:50 -0700 >>Subject: Meier's Contact Reports [was: Exopolitics Courses...] >>He was meticulous in reporting the correct hour of each contact >>as well the correct date. >That's only evidence of meticulous care if you accept that these >contacts are real in the first place. What I was looking for was >some independent and trustworthy process by which any >predictions can be shown to have been recorded *before* the >event they predicted. A prediction that is only revealed after >the event is not exactly persuasive proof. By your own account, >Stevens didn't get to see Meier's records until 9 March 1979, >and as far as I can tell, the book book you are citing wasn't >published until 1983. This leaves a very large room for doubt. This is rather like the columnist Peter Simple, in the London Daily Telegraph, who every year predicted correctly the winner
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:23:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:28:01 -0500 >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:31:46 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >Why don't you just state what the GMT for >the light flashes are in your copy of the video? There are two flashes. The "event time"(the time according to the Shuttle clock which is encoded into the downlink signal) and the "recorded time" which is the time it actually was put onto tape (1-3 seconds later) at the ground. According to the scenelist for STS-102 for this video segment, the time difference between the two clocks is 3 seconds (+-1 second). The "recorded" times follow: Flash 1 occured at GMT 12:30:40.4 (this caused the movement). Flash 2 occured at GMT 12:30:41.7 (which did not seem to cause any course changes but may have accelerated the particles, it seemed brighter than the first flash). Flash time +-.25 second.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:15:27 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:42:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? - Frison >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:40:09 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >I was very surprised! If they are correct in their >calculations,then the speed limit for life is 11,400 miles per >hour. Could that be correct? Does the formula that determines >this limit seem correct? I don't have the answer. I know I said I was withdrawing from this discussion (and, believe me, I am) but I simply couldn't resist killing Ed's '11,400 mph as the speed limit for life' idea with this one simple fact, and, since I'm addressing the list more than I am Ed, I think one last post from me on this is excusable: On April 12, 1961, Yuri Gagarin (a Russian cosmonaut) rocketed to a height of 203 miles (or 325 km), and, in his spacecraft, made one orbit of Earth at a speed of more than 17,000 mph (27,200 km/h) an hour for almost two hours. Since Yuri Gagarin was born in 1934 and died in 1968 - about seven years after the ride through space that exceeded Ed's ridiculous '11,400 mph speed limit for life' - the molecular bonds of the water in his body sure took a long time to break apart from the effects of his acceleration to beyond 17,000 mph.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Shostak Responds To Anderson's Criticism Of SETI From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:15:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:48:18 -0400 Subject: Shostak Responds To Anderson's Criticism Of SETI Dr. Shostak Responds To Gregory Anderson's Criticism Of SETI From The Space Review http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 where Dr. Shostak responds, too quickly and ineffectively to Gregory Anderson's cogent criticism of SETI in same: http://www.thespacereview.com/article/444/1 Dr. Shostak: While I am gratified that Gregory Anderson has addressed the matter of "SETI politics" in his recent article (see "SETI politics", The Space Review, September 6, 2005), I believe that some of his facts are wrong and his arguments skewed. Lehmberg: Dr. Shostak can believe anything floating his shallow draft and flat-bottomed marsh boat. But there are seas beyond his marshlands he won't acknowledge, oceans he won't concede, and other wide saline expanses far outside his very limited and novocained imagination, benumbed sensibilities, and anesthetized thinking. This lackluster imagination, sensibility, and thought become problematic when it presumes reduced value regarding the thinking of Gregory Anderson, thinking decidedly closer to the mark than that for which Dr. Shostak would most hollowly shill. Dr. Shostak: His take on the respectability of SETI in the scientific community is unduly pessimistic. Lehmberg: A "respectability" that is not enough, apparently, to provoke official investment from the scientific mainstream and must depend instead on the shallow purses of the many 'believers' in lay society... 'believers', I suspect, with a little more expansive open-mindedness, imagination, and intelligence than a smirkingly conflicted Dr. Shostak, it would seem. Dr. Shostak: While there are certainly individual scientists who are doubtful about the chances of a SETI detection, SETI has been specifically called out as a legitimate and worthy endeavor by the astronomical community in decadal reviews. This is an endorsement of considerable weight. Anderson also writes - erroneously - that "NASA started a modest SETI program in 1992," but in fact the NASA SETI program dates from the mid-1970s. It was a long-term, but modest program that developed both observing strategies and the requisite technology. Lehmberg: Dr. Shostak can call it what he wants. It will remain a Silly Effort To Investigate because it is a hubristic and homocentric assumption presuming to look for 'smoke' from 'campfires' around stars too far away to avoid significant signal loss... forgetting the erosion of chronological relevance (what _might_ have been heard now could already be millions of years dead!). Also, these "decadal reviews" may only legitimize a culture of constipated scientistics (sic) valuing fundage over courage and corporatism over conscience. No points here. Dr. Shostak: I'm not quite sure what the point is... Lehmberg: This might identify the problem extant. It shows Dr. Shostak's conjectured inability to carry on in a debate without the intimation that his opponent may not have the cognitive ability to make his point clear. Ironic, when it remains that Dr. Shostak should never have put pen to paper if he wasn't "quite" sure what the point was, n'est-ce pas? Lehmberg: Perhaps some small amount of time could be given to educating himself on "the point"... a task he has, time and time again, shown himself incapable of following through on... or how can he still be acting all these years like he can break-even in debate... when Stanton Friedman has, so often, handed him his head in same? Dr. Shostak: ...but Anderson writes "Perhaps logically, the time of SETI has coincided with the UFO era." This may be true if one speaks of geological time, but Roswell (the only UFO incident named by Anderson) was 1947, and the first SETI observations were a dozen years later. Lehmberg: Anderson was making a memorable point in a small article, as Dr. Shostak knows, further showing how quickly Dr. Shostak is willing to use logical fallacy to score points in an argument he knows he must ultimately lose ... indeed has already lost. The reader is reminded that Dr. Shostak felt compelled to respond to Mr. Anderson, at all, and rather quickly for such an important person otherwise consumed by parsing ephemeral smoke from distant stars. But if he really wants other examples (as fleshed out very satisfyingly at the Cohen Site... ) there are... 1. Kirtland AFB (11\4\57) 2. Hynek Blue Book Case (5\5\65) 3. Malmstrom AFB (3/20/67) 4. Incident at Redlands, Ca. (Hynek, BB, 2\4\68) 5. Exeter, New Hampshire (9\3\65) 6. Malmstrom AFB (11\7\75) 7. Iran F-4 Incident (9\76) 8. Belgium (1989\90) 9. Illinois, USA (1\5\2000) 10. Ad infinitum... forgetting the ones seen over my own freaking house (I love a good hyperbole!)! Dr. Shostak: These are all technical nits. Lehmberg: No, Sir. These are house-sized boulders broken too high from thawing glaciers and rolling hurly-burly down the incline you exacerbate to smash your timid ramparts and topple your squatting towers. Clean your glasses. Dr. Shostak: Of greater consequence is Mr. Anderson's mis- characterization of my opinion on interstellar travel, on which he writes "Shostak argues that interstellar travel will always be so expensive that societies will always elect to explore deep space through some version of SETI." Lehmberg: Nonsense, I believe I remember Dr. Shostak intimating similar sentiments, frequently over the years, in one way or another, justifying his spurious approach to "explore the universe in the most cost effective manner possible." And he'd be right, except that he also expends considerable energy in sneering at other approaches to the extraterrestrial, approaches with more data and evidence in a nail paring than he would have in his whole corporate body. Consider, reader, that there is exactly zero evidence with regard to being able to pick up radio or TV (thin smoke) from the stars... but six levels of evidence with regard to the physicality of UFOs... Lehmberg: Six levels, Verily: A ponderous abundance of quality anecdotal evidence, compounded with the vetted photographic evidence, added to the documented historical evidence, framed by the serious artistic evidence, qualified by the available physical evidence, and then compellingly buttressed, conclusively, by personal evidence... One can only be annoyingly astonished by the continued reluctance of _some_ to face the highly strange music that just cannot be _forever_ marginalized... Does the aforementioned information available justify the attention by the mainstream (forgetting Dr. Shostak) to perform a more 'in depth' investigation of UFOs? Absolutely! Lehmberg: Finally, is there _any_ evidence that Dr. Shostak is on a substantive track? Nada! Dr. Shostak: This is not my view at all. Lehmberg: Dr. Shostak must agree to be disagreed with. It's a fair cameo in the opinion of this writer, and in the more educated opinion of an Army of more perspicacious shoulders on which this writer confidently stands. To a degree? It is his view, exactly. Dr. Shostak: I have no idea whether interstellar travel for exploration will happen sooner or later, but I'm rather optimistic that it will eventually happen. Lehmberg: I suspect that the immediately preceding is simply a communicational loss-leader so Dr. Shostak can appear more open- minded on the subject later on... Dr. Shostak: I think that interstellar travel for biological beings is a long shot frankly, but if you're either willing to send telesensing apparatus, or just spend a long time getting there, then going to the stars is possible, and at some level of technology, feasible. Lehmberg: Which, arguablely, is a thin reversal of Dr. Shostak's complaint regarding his being "mis-characterized" by Mr. Anderson. With the immediately preceding, Shostak sparingly dictates what is possible in the latter and what is impossible in the former. Dr. Shostak does, however thinly, then, profess that interstellar travel will always be so expensive that societies will elect to explore deep space through some version of SETI. Does the reader appreciate how Dr. Shostak feebly tries to have it both ways in the same article? Dr. Shostak: I think, however, it is worth noting that our ability to build good telesensing equipment is far outpacing our efforts at making enormously faster rockets. Lehmberg: That's a laugh... no, a hoot... no... a braying guffaw! Stanton Friedman points out that faster rockets were invented near the middle of last century, proven technology mind you, while we blithely let die, with the Hubble in the near future, the best telesensing equipment we have ever had. Dr. Shostak: Ergo, I suspect that we will send equipment, rather than ourselves, for any direct interstellar exploration. Lehmberg: This is a digressive and meaningless remark. It's cheaper, quicker, and more efficient to send "Spirit" and "Opportunity" to Mars than "Dick and Jane". So? This in no way ameliorates the disservice done to ufologists by Dr. Shostak and company when he won't recognize the evidence for UFOs as evidence for UFOs, marginalizes his intellectually more brave superiors to the fruit and nuts fringe, and discounts ufological substance for SETI-logical style. Dr. Shostak: That's my view of things. Mr. Anderson thinks otherwise, noting for example that "Long-term economics and trade may be another driver [for interstellar travel]; establishing English colonies in North America led to extraordinary economic advances." Lehmberg: Any thinking is thinking. Dr. Shostak will only demonstrate, here, a reluctance to facilitate same. Mr. Anderson, on the other hand and in one article, seems prepared to go outside Dr. Shostak's little box when required. Bravo Mr. Anderson! Dr. Shostak: I respectfully point out that such examples all involved members of the same species, and even then, "trade" was not the driver. The Europeans did not wish to trade with the Aztecs (what did the Aztecs import?) but merely put them to work in silver mines. Lehmberg: Merely? Seems our Dr. Shostak may have other problems. To their extreme chagrin and detriment it could be said that Aztecs imported gold and silver (and slaves) after all, bloated Spain, and so rather handily destroyed her. Spain wasn't a significant power all that long after their contact with the Aztecs, were they? Dr. Shostak: And the Mesoamerican cultures are estimated to have been only 500 years behind their European counterparts in terms of technical development. The difference between interstellar societies will be far greater. Lehmberg: Evidence for same? Dr. Shostak: Mr. Anderson's true agenda is to plead that SETI researchers should be accepting of "Little Green Men zipping through spacetime in flying saucers." Lehmberg: A fatuous estimation or appellation at best. It remains that there is decidedly more evidence for even the distortions ascribed to Mr. Anderson... than there is for Dr. Shostak's smoke signals from beyond the stars. Dr. Shostak's not getting over the net in any shape, way, manner, or form. Dr. Shostak: I would be happy to accept this idea if there were only convincing proof. Lehmberg: Great suffering and most baragrugous ZOT, reader. He says this when "SETI-logical" and "scatological" are words becoming roughly more synonymous. Moreover... I suspect that Dr. Shostak would be _anything_ but pleased if "convincing proof" crawled up his nose and died. Dr. Shostak: When discussing alien UFOs, it is a common canard to argue that the SETI community's skepticism is simply due to their failure to be open to the idea. That's wrong. Their skepticism is rooted in the lack of good evidence. Lehmberg: Amazing! Intellectual obstinacy, round, firm, and fully packed... to the last! Dr. Shostak is to be commended for staying true to form, continuing to provide examples of scientistic (sic) insentience, and strengthening the ufological case for his more worthy opposition. Lehmberg: Game. Set. Match. Mr. Anderson gallantly leaps the net to console a soundly defeated and gasping Dr. Shostak. Read on.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Holman From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:58:14 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:49:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Holman >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:32:13 -0700 >Subject: Re: Meier's Contact Reports >>From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 01:46:19 +1000 >>Subject: Meier's Contact Report >If your goal is to prove the man's a faker and hoaxer, you'd >need to look into the evidence that he's not, which includes >lots of witnesses' reports in support. In court you wouldn't be >allowed to ignore that evidence. No, it's not my *goal* to prove he's a liar, it's my tentative *conclusion* that he is. (Though I freely admit that I suspected as much beforehand.) It was my *goal* to check the accuracy of a statement that you made to Kevin Randle (see below). >Otherwise, Meier was reporting what he remembered having seen >from the spacecraft a couple years earlier, as viewed through >some port, and reporting what Semjase had told him then in >explanation. You might also need to look into logical reasons >why ETI would include some disinformation in what they tell >their contactee, which a non-scientist wouldn't be able to >detect, and ponder the inconvenience of ETI being sufficiently >smarter than us to allow them to get away with it, without the >scientific establishment catching on. You are assuming so many things here, and frankly I don't care to get into a pointless argument about any of it. All I was trying to do was to ascertain the truth of the claim that Meier had made predictions about the Solar System that were later verified. And he hasn't. (With the possible exception of Io being the most volcanically active body in the Solar system, and maybe the size of Amalthea.) Not only that, but he said some things which are wrong, which only make sense if they were based on statements floating around in the press at the time of the flyby. (Eg, the evaporating ocean on Io.) >>But if you are >>going to claim Meier's correct statements as evidence for his ET >>contacts, but discard any incorrect statements as ET >>disinformation, then you've got an unfalsifiable claim here. >>Heads you win, tails I lose ... >If you allowed that ETs could be smarter than us, you'd be in a >position to be able to switch to the winning side. No, the point is I can't disprove any such claim. Any time I come up with evidence showing that Meier made an incorrect
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Salla & Stone - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:05:50 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:54:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Salla & Stone - Randle >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:12:09 -1000 >Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:14:31 EDT >>Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 05:06:45 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Salla & Stone >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:28:25 EDT >>>>Subject: Re: Salla & Stone <snip> >>So, if I understand the argument correctly, you are suggesting >>that rigorous debate in an academic arena is preferable to >>investigative experience because the contentious methodological >>issues need to be carefully evaluated and such experience in not >>available in the real world. >In the academic community scholars are 1. trained to >conceptualize any new phenomenon that comes to their attention >in their fields of competence; 2. formulate appropriate >hypotheses for investigating the phenomenon; 3. develop >appropriate methodological criteria for investigating the >phenenonon; and 4. conduct investigations/experiments. The >actual field work, investigation or experiment is something that >provides a feed back loop to the scholarly process so data from >field investigations/experiments will produce a better >conceptualization of the phenomenon. A simply yes or no would have done it. But, once again, you suggest that what is of prime importance is the academic analysis and that actual field work is necessary only to provide the confirming data. I'm thinking that this might be backwards, where you analyze and then investigate, rather than investigate and let the data collected suggest a theory and then, of course, collect additional data before organizing it into a coherent form to be peer reviewed. But here's a question. Have you engaged your academic colleagues in a discussion of your theories, providing them with an opportunity to examine the evidence, the testimony, and the conclusions you have drawn from it? Have you discussed these diverse methodological methods for investigation and analysis with them and applied them to the testimonies of the contactees and the whistleblowers? >As to the importance of "real world investigation", that >provides data, but that data needs to be subjected to a rigorous >scholarly process aimed at first conceputalizing the phenomenon, >formulating hypotheses, etc. If one does the field work and >relies on those doing the field work for conceptualizing the >phenomenon and formulating hypotheses, then the biases of the >field investigators distort the study. Field investigators are >not exposed to the rigorous methodological debates in academia >so they can considerably underestimate the variables involved in >the phenemenon being studied. In the academic community, one has >the advantage of having a diverse set of viewpoints that are >detached from the phenemonon and therefore more objective. Certainly the bias can creep in, not that it necessarily does. The double blind seems to be the best to ensure operator bias does not taint the research. Yes, I get it, though this is beginning to sound like double speak. >>The 1992 meeting sponsored by CUFOS >>and FUFOR to investigate the Plains of San Agustin controversy >>(as well as the credibility of Gerald Anderson) does not count >>for this sort of contentious experience (though I will note that >>it became quite contentious a number of times) because it was >>not in an academic forum. Or maybe I should say that it was not >>held at an academic institution, though it seemed to be academic >>in nature. >I'm sure there is heated debate over particular cases and how to >evaluate these among investigators. Many of the key field >investigators such as Richard Hall have decades of experience >and written impressive evaluations of the UFO data based on >field investigations. He would be a good example of the >competent field investigator with lots of real life experience >whose perspective certainly needs to be considered in debates >over particular cases. Nevertheless, his ability to >conceptualize the UFO phenomenon and to come up with appropriate >methodology is questionable since he has been very selective as >to what data to admit and what to reject. Whistleblower and >contactee data has been routinely dismissed due to the alleged >absence of hard evidence and documentation. However, as I've >argued, this overlooks the distorting factor of a national >security system designed to systematically remove, alter or >discredit such evidence/documentation. Well, Dick Hall wasn't there, so that point might not be relevant when talking about this meeting. The people there were trained in physics, anthropology, sociology, aviation, and several other soft and hard sciences. This meeting, I believe, would fit into your criterion of rigorous academic debate by specialists trained in various disciplines. And, no, I haven't missed the point that you believe that there is a distorting factor of a national security system. I submit that you have weighted this factor too heavily and that there are other reasons for the lack of hard evidence and for the curtain of ridicule that seems to have descended over portions of the UFO field, not the least of which are some of the antics of the contactees themselves - Let's not forget about Andy Sinatra, the mystic barber of Long Island with this tinfoil wrapped machines. He certainly did nothing to improve the credibility of the field. And no, I don't take his message seriously. >>And those of us who have training in the academic and real world >>investigative techniques must take a backseat to those who have >>been graduate student and thesis advisors because we haven't >>been exposed to these diverse methodologies. >As to who sits in front or back seat that is moot. What is >necessary is a dialogue where each's perspective is fully >considered and factored into the investigation. I have yet to >see that consideration for different approaches in this forum >from most veteran researchers. For example, I detect no shift in >your position that in the absence of hard evidence or >documentation, the testimonies of whistleblowers/contactees are >just a bunch of unsubstantiated tall stories that at best should >be ignored or at worst condemned as outright lies. You haven't >shifted your position at all despite our repeated exchanges >since you basically dismiss the evidence that a national >security system has been set up to systematically distort and >remove hard evidence and to intimidate witnesses into silence. >Basically, you have failed to accurately conceptualize the UFO >phenomenon and all the factors which contextualize its >investigation. And I have said, repeatedly, that no one is that good. If these people were who they claimed to be, they would be able to supply some documentation to prove their points. Their official record is one source of documentation, but there are other ways of proving their claims. One way would certainly substantiate your contention that the records were altered, which means we have something other than the source telling us one thing and the available evidence suggesting something else. I have little faith in those who have been caught spinning tales. You seem to reject all forms of alternative evidence if it does not underscore your belief system. >>And finally, having worked in the field on any number of UFO >>cases, including the one in which it was first reported that the >>aliens had actually entered the house (see Budd Hopkins Missing >>Time, p. 142 in the paperback in which he references the Patty >>Price case, which he referenced to Coral Lorenzen Abducted pp 9- >>42 in which she referenced me and Saga magazine in which the >>first article appeared. I gave her the name Patty Price because >>at the time the article was written she wanted to remain >>anonymous but it she has since changed her mind and we know her >>as Pat Roach), I would think would establish not only my >>research credentials but also a use of diverse methodologies >>just the sort you'd appreciate in the academic arena. >Extensive field work experience is no substitute for correctly >conceptualizing the phenomenon being studied. You have failed to >properly conceptualize the UFO phenemenon since you have jumped >into the fray of investigating cases with all your biases and >simply not incorporated other perspectives that are contrary to >your biases. The bias I'm speaking of is the need for >quantiative analysis of the hard evidence. If you were in an >academic community you would be excoriated for holding such >views in fields such as political science where all political >factors need to be fully considered including distorting >variables such as the nature of the national security system. I >know since I've seen at first hand the kind of criticisms >scholars have for their peers with an affinity for quantitative >analysis of the hard evidence in Political Science departments. >Quantitative analysis may be acceptable in some fields of >phyiscal sciences, but qualitative analysis is stressed more in >the social sciences. If you were to present your methods and >analysis before your academic peers, you would be rightly >excoriated for your method. Instead, all you do is present your >research method to like minded investigators and given pats on >the back from those sharing your biases. That is not >scholarship, just group think! And I would think that your peers would want to see something more substantial that a claim of a distorting bias that alters the records. I would think that you would understand that I have attempted to look at all of this carefully, am aware of my personal bias and actual consider that when looking at the evidence. But I would hope your peers would be a little more interested in some kind of corroboration than a claim that the national security agencies have altered the record and that the whistleblower who makes claims can't prove them because of that alteration and that the alteration is, in fact, some kind of proof. That seems to be a rather circular argument. <snip> >>>There was no title that Stone mentioned other than his >>>description of it as a Guide for EBEs. He did not mention a >>>title page or anything on its cover that suggested it can be >>>tracked down through FOIA. >>Why am I not surprised? No way to verify the existence of this >>document. >Yes, it would be helpful if he had more information. I'll follow >up to see what more can be learned about the guide he claims to >have consulted between 1979-89. Ah, here is the critical part of the discussion - I have asked for additional information, which can be verified from an outside source and you admit it would be helpful. I submit that if we can identify this document, it would go a long way in validating Stone's claims of being an insider. Since he has already spilled the beans about it, then giving us the name certainly isn't going to make things any worse. If we can locate this, then one of Stone's claims could be substantiated and that would require a new and more positive examination of his record. <snip> >>>I fail to see your point here about a convenient rationale for >>>Stone not answering all questions you may put to him. I've >>>written a short article about asking the right questions of >>>whistleblowers at: http://www.exopolitics.org/Exo-Comment-30.htm >>>. Asking "tough questions" may easily compromise a whistleblower >>>in terms of any security oath. You can't simply assume that >>>since he may have 'broken' or 'stretched' some oaths and has >>>apparently not been incarcerated, that he is free to continue >>>'breaking' his oaths without risking future incarceration. Stone >>>is describing a security system that appears to condone some >>>leaks but not others. I don't see why that concept is difficult >>>for you to grasp. Public acclimation is very likely occuring as >>>evidenced by the number of whistleblowers coming forward, and >>>some of Stone's disclosures are permitted while others aren't. >>>Certainly the threats he claims to have received make it >>>important to consider the possibility that he is subject to >>>constraints. >>I never said that he was free to continue to break his oaths but >>that he has never offered us anything that was new and different >>as a way of verifying his credentials. Everything has already >>been in the public arena so there is no proof that he was an >>insider as claimed nor that he had any special knowledge of >>classified programs. And when we ask for additional information >>that is directly credited to Stone so that we could begin the >>verification process, that information is denied because Stone >>is not free to divulge that specific and apparently classified >>information. >He certainly offered something that was new and different when >you wrote your Project Moondust and referred to him as a >pioneer. Stanton Friedman also thought similarly when writing >the foreward to Stone's book. Stone as you have recently said is >a dogged researcher who has gained access to many documents >through FOIA research. Does that prove his an insider? No, but >it helps establish his credibility as a UFO researcher over >several decades that 'may' have been stimulated by his insider >status. Stone can prove that he was harassed by the US military >for his FOIA activities during his active service, that shows >someone at a certain level was not happy with Stone's >activities. If this is an example of your thinking, I believe I'm beginning to understand the problem here. That Stone introduced this material to me doesn't mean that he provided something that was new to the UFO community as a whole. Yes, Stone is tenacious in his research, but that again, doesn't put him on the inside. Merely that he devotes his free time to this activity. It establishes him as a researcher which is different than being an insider. This idea he was harassed over his FOIA activities during his service is a little tougher. I read all those documents about this, and wonder if it was about his FOIA activities or about his involvement of a United States Senator in his activities without letting his superiors know that he was doing it. Yes, this is a fine hair to split and might not even be relevant. Clearly the basis of his trouble was his FOIA activities, clearly he got into a lot of trouble over it, and just as clearly, when investigated by an outside source (meaning another level of the Army) he was found to have been unfairly dismissed from his position among other things. So, the question that is relevant is if it was his FOIA activities or that he communicated with a senator outside the chain of command that caused the trouble? It also strikes me that Stone's trouble evolved from a dispute with a superior at the New Mexico Military Institute, and that when he appealed to higher authorities in the Army, they investigated and found in his favor. Seems to me that this is soft evidence that his records weren't altered because the Army, if they were engaged in this, would have used this as a way of sinking him completely. Instead, they found in his favor which suggests the fix wasn't in. >As for your requests for further information from Stone that >might help establish his credibility, I think what he has >currently offered should rightly be the focus of investigation >rather than further information that you specifiy. Your >metholodogy here is suspect since Stone's testimony should not >be dismissed on the grounds of what he believes he cannot >divulge. I really don't want to go around on this again. I'm suggesting that Stone's testimony might not be candid based on many things he has said in the past. However, I think that asking for specific information can provide us with evidence that Stone is who he says he is. If he refuses to supply that information, for whatever reason, that should be considered - and then, we must find other avenues to verify what he says. This is just one way of attempting to learn the truth. >>>As for Project Moon Dust, Brad Sparks directed me to a 1978 FOIA >>>letter received by Robert Todd from the US Air Force mentioning >>>Project Moon Dust. That's the earliest documented reference so >>>far to Project Moon Dust that I have found. Stone has claimed he >>>told Tom Adams and Gary Barker about Project Moon Dust in 1977 >>>while he was stationed in Europe, and there is the possibility >>>that Adams/Barker passed this on to Todd. So I'm currently >>>researching that possibility. >>>For the record, Stone has two military newspaper stories about >>>him in 1980 where he was interviewed for his FOIA UFO work. By >>>1980, Stone was quoted in the stories to have thousands of pages >>>of documents he had received through FOIA requests since 1974. >>>So Stone was clearly a pioneer along with Robert Todd and others >>>in FOIA requests on UFO documents. The idea he "ripped off" >>>Todd's work is not supported by the newspaper stories that show >>>Stone FOIA work dates back to 1974. >>No, the newspaper stories actually show that his work dates back >>to 1980 and document his claim of working on it since 1974. We >>have nothing to verify that claim. Stone should be able to >>document it with letters and FOIA requests dated to that time. >>I have lots of them for my work that include the responses from >>various governmental agencies. He should be able to produce the >>first letter he has that references Moon Dust. >Stone claims to have two military newspaper articles from 1980 >that covered his FOIA work in the 1970s. When I get copies I >will be happy to make them available to substantiate his claims. >I'll also look into FOIA requests and responses he received in >the 1970s. I don't dispute that Stone has the newspaper clippings. My point was that they document his FOIA work in 1980, but do not prove he was working on that in 1974, regardless of what they say. We need some documentation for that, which Stone should have in his files. Then we need to verify that he had information about Moon Dust prior to that information getting out into the public arena. If we can't, all we can logically conclude is that Stone wasn't necessarily the source of the original information and therefore it does nothing to corroborate his claims of being an insider. <snip> >>>Clifford Stone has told me that he has given his word not to >>>reveal the new classified name for Project Moondust. I don't >>>know why you would assume that he is free to reveal all his >>>knowledge about classified projects. We need to analyse Stone's >>>testimony in terms of what he has revealed, not what he hasn't >>>revealed or is willing to answer in terms of "tough questions" >>>that may compromise him. Your approach does not appear >>>sufficiently nuanced in cases like Stone where there does appear >>>to be threats that greatly concern and constrain him. >>That is my point - he is not free to reveal anything, yet he has >>in the past. However, he has given us _nothing_ that we didn't >>already have. He provided us with no new evidence and no new >>areas to search. All the inside information he has provided was >>available, sometimes on a limited basis, to anyone doing the >>research. He had no particular insight for us. >He has given testimony about his role in UFO crash retrieval >teams, and has used FOIA requests as a means of getting out some >of the information he allegedly learned from his service. >Substantiating his testimony with the available documentary >evidence is a challenge and I and others are currently working >on this. To say he has no particular insight for us is >incorrect. It's more correct to say he has no conclusive >documentation to substantiate his testimony. That means we need >to explore other means for substantiating his testimony which >incredibly important for UFO research and exopolitical analysis. Maybe you would be happier if I rephrased this to say that he has no insights to provide us that have been corroborated by independent sources. If what he says is true, then certainly he has these sorts of insights. However, if he is inventing his tales, then he is providing nothing more than fiction which does nothing to increase our knowledge. >>>>I will point out here that we are forgetting that many of his >>>>statements about his Vietnam service (crawling through the wire >>>>to engage the VC on a one-on-one basis, that he told the first >>>>sergeant when he arrived in Vietnam that he wanted a combat >>>>assignment and hadn't been trained as a clerk, are false) and >>>>that when he has been caught a couple of times, he has reversed >>>>his position, changing the tale to fit the facts. And before you >>>>ask, the one that springs immediately to mind is his claimed >>>>involvement with the Kecksburg UFO event of 1965. >>>Stone claims to have never been trained as a typist which was a >>>cover for his crash retrieval training and activities. This is >>>something he claims to be able to prove through documentation >>>and I'm presently looking more into that aspect of his case. As >>>for his specific duties and activities while serving in Vietnam, >>>I think your focus on them are a distraction from Stone's >>>central claims that he was involved in UFO crash retrievals >>>which need to be analysed and not simply dismissed as you are >>>doing. >>The documentation that exists today shows that Stone trained as >>a clerk-typist and that all his assignments were in the admin >>field. There is no documentation to suggest otherwise. My point >>has always been that if what he said is true, then there would >>be some kind of documentation to support it. If he has the >>training that he claims, then he should have some kind of >>personal documentation to support those claims. He has offered >>nothing other than the claim his records were altered. >You keep glossing over one of Stone's central claims that his >military service record was altered so as to not have any >reference to his actual military training and service. So his >military service record is therefore incomplete due to document >manipulation. Document manipulation is a very important claim >and we need to develop appropriate criteria for assessing >Stone's claim. Simply saying the substantiating documentation is >not available and therefore Stone's claims are unsubstantiated >and should be rejected is not a suitable response when we >consider the kind of national security system in place to deal >with the UFO phenomenon. Requesting documentation to prove >claims that documetation has been altered or removed is circular >reasoning. We need to developed other means of substantiating >testimonies here. Great. What other methods do you suggest? I'm on board. But, until we have something else, the record does nothing to prove Stone is telling us the truth. My point here is that we have the official records from a disinterested source and we have nothing from Stone to counter this, other than his claim. I submit that he should have, in his personal files, something that would be of value in substantiating his claims. I also suggested other sources of records that might help us understand Stone's claims, such as his unit's morning reports, but have heard nothing to help with the search for those records. >My point here has been that if Stone is less than honest in his >tales from Vietnam, what makes you believe that he would be any >more candid in his tales of UFO research and participation? >>>As for the Kecksberg crash, Stone claimed to have remote viewed >>>the UFO crash to his "Captain" mentor before he enlisted in >>>1969. It was Stone's 'psychic abilities' that apparently made >>>him suitable as an interface with ETs and Kecksberg was part of >>>the circumstances which led to his recruitment into the UFO >>>crash retrieval teams. Stone claimed to have been used for >>>telepathic communications. I think subsequent research on remote >>>viewing has demonstrated its effectiveness and why the military >>>was interested in someone like Stone with natural psychic >>>abilities. >>Okay, I wished to avoid this because it was going to involve a >>lot of typing on my part but this latest explanation - that he >>remote viewed the UFO crash is really the last straw (and if >>Stone is this good, how come he never made it past E-7 meaning >>sergeant first class). >>According to what Stone told the Unsolved Mysteries hotline >>after they ran their Kecksburg UFO story, Stone had personally >>witnessed the armed military convoy, helmeted soldiers and a >>flatbed truck carrying the damaged UFO out of Kecksburg. On >>Sightings in 1992, Stone made a similar claim (which means the >>claim is documented on video tape, which Stone should be able to >>provide). Stan Gordon, the main researcher into Kecksburg, said >>that Stone told him that he, Stone, was a civilian and that a >>friend at Lockbourne AFB, Ohio, called to tell him that the UFO >>that was in the news had been brought to the base. The friend >>(conveniently unidentified), picked up Stone and drove him to >>the base where he hid in the car in the parking lot outside a >>back gate and saw the convoy arrive, stay awhile and then leave >>for Wright-Patterson AFB, also in Ohio. >>Stone has not renewed these claims since 1992 or 1993. But, >>the real point is that Stone didn't suggest then that he had >>remote viewed the site, but had actually been there, until it >>was realized that he would have been a 16 year-old student >>living some 90 miles away from Lockbourne AFB. Then, >>rather than being in Kecksburg to witness the convoy and all >>the ancillary events, he changed the story to having seen the >>convoy arrive at one Air Force base and then transferred to >>another. And, now he remote viewed it. So, which version is >>the truth? >According to my knowledge of this incident, Stone was >accompanied by his mentor, Captain Brown, to a location where >the Kecksberg convoy passed by. Stone was requested to remote >view what he could see under the covers. He correctly identified >the contents to the satisfaction of his Captain mentor. This >demonstrated Stone's psychic abilities which was what led to his >eventual recruitment into the UFO retrieval team. Stone claims >he was recruited to directly interface with the ETs due to his >unique psychic abilities. I hope that clarifies what occurred. I >see no inconsistency in Stone's claims. I'm tempted to just say, "Ha!" This strikes me as unbelievable. Is this a fourth version or is it an expansion on the third version that allows us to incorporate the second and first versions into one longer story? And doesn't this constant change in his story suggest something to you about his veracity? When new information surfaces, he changes his story to incorporate that information in it. That, to me, is not suggestive of a true story. >>>I'm presently doing more research on Stone's case and will get >>>back to you and the forum with my results. >>Let's recap for those who haven't been paying attention to this >>rather tiring exchange. Stone said that he was not trained as a >>clerk, yet his records and his military assignments suggest >>otherwise. Stone claims his records have been altered but has >>offered no evidence that this is the case. He said that when he >>arrived in Vietnam, he told his first sergeant that he wasn't >>really a clerk and requested a combat assignment (a very noble >>request by the way) and when refused, sometimes crawled through >>the wire to engage in one-on-one combat with the Viet Cong. >>Again, he has no proof of this and such tales are universally >>rejected as invention. He claimed that he was at the Kecksburg >>UFO crash site and saw the military convoys, etc., later said >>that he was at an Air Force base to see the convoys and finally >>that he had, in reality, remote viewed the scene. He claims that >>he was on the inside on a crash retrieval team, again offering >>no proof that this was the case, that he revealed Moon Dust to >>the UFO world, and that he saw the alien autopsy film in 1969. >>Again, he has no proof of this and we know that he didn't say a >>word about the alien autopsy film until after Ray Santilli >>showed it to the world. Yet, with all these problems and when >>Stone has contradicted himself about his involvement in the >>Kecksburg case (which, by the way, he could tell us the truth >>about because he was a civilian and Posse Comitatus prohibits >>the prosecution of civilians by military authorities) and when >>he offers no proof that any of this is true, you prefer to >>believe Stone is telling you the absolute truth than the >>possibility that he has been, shall we say, inventing his tales. >>And contrary to the spin put on it, these are major problems >>with the tales told by Stone and until and unless there is some >>sort of documented resolution, the only logical conclusion is >>that Stone has invented these stories. >>And I don't really mean to pick on Stone here. The same can be >>said for many of the so-called whistleblowers including the one >>who spent years in jail for child molestation (oh, yes, he was >>framed to undermine his credibility, I forgot). What I have been >>suggesting and what many others would like to see, is some sort >>of unbiased vetting of the witnesses to establish their >>credibility so that we're not caught, once again, with egg on >>our faces. How many times must we be caught before we start some >>serious research (and yes, I include myself in this - after all >>I believed Frank Kaufmann and he actually had some documentation >>to prove what he said). >I agree that this exchange is getting tiring since obviously you >do not appreciate the view that relying exclusively on documents >to substantiate the testimony of whistleblowers is an inadequate >methodology. You have failed to adequately conceptualize the >task before us since you dismiss evidence that a national >security system exists to systematically alter, remove or >destroy documentation. Such evidence comprises the testimony of >whistleblowers such as Clifford Stone, Phil Schneider, Daniel >Burisch, Bob Lazar, Michael Wolf, etc., who all atest to working >on classified projects involving EBEs/ETVs. The supporting data >gained from investigator gives much credence to such a system in >existence. Furthermore, we have the Majestic Documents pointing >to the existence of a "Cosmic Watergate" that is in existence >and where an elaborate security system is in place to deal with >the available data. And I am suggesting that these documents are one source of corroboration, but certainly not the only. I'm looking for anything that would move the debate beyond Stone's claims and the lack of corroboration. I have suggested ways of doing that and all I hear in return are lectures on national security, the ability to alter documents, and a failing on my part to engage in other methodologies. When I suggest other things - and here I look again to my noting of my involvement in the Pat Roach abduction case where we used, not only hypnotic regression, but local police documents to verify part of her story, and attempts to find confirming witnesses whose names she had supplied, I get another lecture on the importance of academic debate and the secondary role of investigative field work. But I still see nothing to suggest that the conclusions drawn about the veracity of these tales is inaccurate. And while I understand that you claim that there is a national security system to systematically alter, remove or destroy the documentation of the whistleblowers, you provide no evidence that such is true other than the whistleblowers saying it is true. They offer little or nothing to bolster their case, and again, if they are who they claim to be, such evidence should be available with a little digging. >You keep repeating that we need documentation to substantiate >each and every claim made by a whistleblower by documentation. >That unfortunately is not always possible due to the nature of >national security system designed to maintain secrecy over data >confirming the ETH. In short, you have failed to adequately >analyse the ramifications of your own thesis concerning the >Roswell crash. Your analysis of the evidence, unless you've >shifted position recently, is that the Roswell crash happened >and the elements of the US military and government have lied. >Your belief is that "Cosmic Watergate" is maintained by >systematic lying and enforcement of compartmentalized security >procedures to maintain operational security. The implicit logic >in your position doesn't add up since over decades the biggest >security threat would become disgruntled whistleblowers. To >counter that threat, the "Cosmic Watergate" would need to ensure >that documentation for employees and servicemen doesn't contain >their true training, credentials or assignements in case they >become whistleblowers, and need to be discredited. That would be >the most logical system to put in place. What you are suggesting >is a very illogical security system for a Cosmic Watergate >spanning over five decades. My conclusion is that documentation >has its place but should not be used as the exclusive criterion >for assessing whistleblower testimony otherwise we'll never get >to analyse the exopolitical implications of their testimonies. I have not said that we need documentation to prove each and every claim, but have suggested it would be nice to have something more than the claimants word that his records were altered or destroyed in some grand conspiracy to undermine his or her value as a witness. And I'm a little astonished that you believe that twenty or thirty years ago some individual was smart enough to disguise every instant that would provide documentation for a whistleblower. I have suggested alternative sources of documents and witnesses to establish the truth, but you'd rather reject all this, claim I have failed to adequately analyze the situation, and suggest that the lack of documentation is evidence that the whistleblower is telling the truth. I think back to Don Schmitt's claim that he didn't work at the post office. I mean, who really cared if he worked at the post office? Some of my best friends are post office employees. But, when he was asked the crucial question on video tape, (If he worked at the post office), his one word answer was, "No." Later, when proof of the inaccuracy of this statement surfaced, Schmitt suggested that he had heard the documentary makers deriding civil servants so he chose to hide the nature of his real employment. A ridiculous notion because it gave those documentary makers the evidence they needed to prove he was less than candid, had that been their mission. The point here is that the evidence that is available does not change but we see those telling their tales spinning the information to explain behavior that seems, at best, to be inconsistent with the truth. Today we find ourselves in the same boat with a large number of people who are saying one thing but have nothing with which to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 The Times Klass Obituary From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:14:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:14:11 -0400 Subject: The Times Klass Obituary Source: The Times - London - UK Obituaries September 12, 2005 Philip Klass November 8, 1919 - August 9, 2005 Ufologist whose meticulous investigations exposed UFO sightings as mistaken identity or hoax Philip Klass was principally an electrical engineer and aviation specialist, but he will best be remembered as a debunker of claims of alien visitations. To Klass, sightings of flying saucers were invariably cases of mistaken identity. As he argued in seven books, including his highly acclaimed UFOs Explained (1975), mysterious objects in the sky, which, since the Second World War have been thought by many to be evidence of extra- terrestrial activity, were nothing of the sort. They were either kites, meteors, hot air balloons or other such prosaic objects. But he was no killjoy, and many Ufologists applauded his empirical methods. Klass merely wanted to find the truth. He said that he would be happy to be proved wrong, and in 1999 he admitted that he hoped one day to be abducted by aliens, if only because that would mean his work would be finished, freeing him to pursue his other passions, such as going to the cinema, reading books and watching television. Philip Klass was born in Des Moines, Iowa, in 1919 and was raised in Cedar Rapids. He gained a degree in electrical engineering from Iowa State University, and after graduation took up employment with General Electric, for which he worked in aviation electronics during the Second World War. In 1952 he left the company to become avionics editor of the periodical Aviation Week & Space Technology, retiring as senior editor in 1986, but remaining as contributing editor until 2002. His career in avionics and space technology brought him into the field of Ufology. His first involvement came in 1966, after a policeman in Socorro, New Mexico, claimed to have seen two extra-terrestrials clambering into an egg-shaped spacecraft and blasting off. Klass concluded that the report was a hoax, designed merely to boost tourism to the area, much as the so- called =93Roswell Incident=94 of 1947 had led to an influx of visitors to the Texas town. His own 1997 work The Real Roswell Crashed-Saucer Coverup argued that claims of UFO sightings could often be shown to rely on muddled or fabricated evidence. The UFOs sighted at Roswell were most likely weather balloons, he said. In seeking to debunk claims of UFO sightings and the like, Klass was not just motivated by scientific interest; he believed that erroneous belief in alien visitations was psychologically damaging. Although dismissed by some Ufologists as a =93disinformation agent=94, Klass was always happy to engage heartily and gregariously with other UFO enthusiasts =97 sceptics and non-sceptics alike. He is survived by his wife Nadya and a stepdaughter and a stepson. Philip Klass, Ufologist, was born on November 8, 1919. He died
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report From: Joe Faccenda <uforth.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:44:41 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:19:04 -0400 Subject: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report Hi I have just joined this List and thought I would introduce myself. I have followed the usual learning curve after having a close UFO encounter a few years ago, culminating in a UFO website: http://www.uforth.com dedicated to UFO shapes and configurations. I hope that in future I can contribute to ufology's ongoing saga! I live In Scotland which has had several uFO hot spots over the years, and also some incredible sightings. One of my favourites is the following report, from 1947, around the same time as the famous Kenneth Arnold sighting. What impresses me about the report is not only its factual content, but the simplicity of a man going about his everyday occupation, confronted by an alien craft that was totally out of his comprehension. Regards, joe --- Scotland 1947 Andrew Cherry was a 22 year old factory worker, employed by Woods Bottle Works in the Portobello district of Edinburgh. It was 5.30 on a beautiful summer's morning in July 1947, as Mr Cherry waited at his usual bus stop close to St John's School in Baileyfield Road. Glancing skywards, he caught sight of a strange object, disc- shaped with what looked like a large glass dome in the style of an observation window. The UFO was hovering about 300 feet above the ground, close enough for Mr Cherry to get a clear view of its humanoid occupant. The 'alien' was wearing dark clothes and was sitting or standing beside a control panel of some kind. He also noted the marked metal texture of the spacecraft 'like rough diamonds', and the 'orange-yellow colour', which he thinks may have been simply a reflection of the sun's rays. The area around the object looked hazy, possibly owing to the object's energy source. Mr. Cherry could hear a low, smooth hum, which he associated with the flames he could see escaping from the disc. He reckoned it to be 12 to 15 feet in length, but showing tremendous power as it tilted, spun away and disappeared over the Fife coast in a matter of seconds Mr. Cherry describes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:09:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:25:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:46:53 -0700 >Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:13:00 -0400 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>Source: The Nation - Bangkok, Thailand >>http://www.komchadluek.net/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=80968 >>Sep 09 2005 >>Villagers Claim ET Sighting ><snip> >Well well! This story may be interesting after all. >Now we have a date, Friday 9 SEPT 2005; a rough location (Mae >Jan district, aka Mai Chan) which can be found independently of >the story, and a local source independent of Ananova. >Maybe my earlier doubts were premature. <snip> And now, a third version, a toy balloon! From a List reader, I got this URL: http://tinyurl.com/9mcde Its a Yahoo forum with just one message on the thread: Khun Cold Pen, ET Mystery Solved Only 1 message in topic - view as tree Sandy CrudenSep 13, 4:39 am Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai From: "Sandy Cruden" <scru....nul> - Date: 13 Sep 2005 04:39:09 -0700 Local: Tues, Sep 13 2005 4:39 am Subject: Khun Cold Pen, ET Mystery Solved It is claimed that many villagers in Chiang Rai witnessed ET late last month. August the 31st, in the morning, while they were working near their rice field as usual, unexpectedly, they saw an alien walking around in their land. It looks 70-100 cm tall, thin, having big round head, big eyes, big ears, small mouth, flat chest and pale body. The alien was about 10-20 metres away from the crowd. It was in the field about an hour before gliding away in the sky. Nothing particularly extra terrestrial about it, TV reports have just shown an interview with a villager. Even now the details are confused with a different version depending on which channel is reporting, but it seems he had been with some people at a function where a relative of his had been presented with a degree. As part of the celebrations they had ended up with one of those "balloon men" a big round balloon with a painted alien face for the head and long thin ones for the body, legs and arms, hands and feet. It was filled with gas, at some stage it got away from him and blew away. It ended up in a field some distance away resulting in the ET story! My apologies to the locals for daring to suggest that they were perhaps a bit under the weather after a few bottles of Lao Khaao 40..Shame on me for doubting them, they'd never do that.555 :-) " Sandy Huay Khwaang ----- This version moves the date back 9 days, and notes conflicting TV reports in Thailand. Oh how I wish all these 'reporters' could simply get their facts straight! Do we have 10 villagers that can't make out a balloon, however its shaped? There is precedent.Something similar in Italy I think, Europe in any case, with mylar balloons shaped like "spacemen". Disappointing if so. I can't look up the mylar story. It didn't get into my Discredited Sightings list, but readers of European UFO journals might recall it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Response To The Space Review - Bueche From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:34:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Bueche >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:54:47 -0400 >Subject: Response To The Space Review >Source: The Space Review >http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 >Monday, September 12, 2005 >Letter: Response To Seti Politics >by Seth Shostak >Mr. Anderson's true agenda is to plead that SETI >researchers should be accepting of "Little Green Men >zipping through spacetime in flying saucers." Seth Shostak must grant that by all accounts, the color of the most commonly seen aliens (the so-called "greys") ranges from bone-white to beige. Why then does he disregard this information and describe aliens as "green"? Is he not a man who is dedicated to hard data? Why would such a person substitute simple facts with a culturally lampooned stereotype? Because it is easier to dismiss other peoples if one refuses to regard them as they truly are. Racists and xenophobes know this. Shostak knows it too.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Johnson From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:15:26 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:37:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Johnson >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:46:53 -0700 >Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:13:00 -0400 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>Source: The Nation - Bangkok, Thailand >>http://www.komchadluek.net/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=80968 >>Sep 09 2005 >>Villagers Claim ET Sighting <snip> Larry, The date I have from: www.manager.co.th for the entity report is August 31, at 6:30 a.m. There are photos of the field and the witnesses on the webpage, as well as a very rough sketch of the entity. The text is all in Thai, however. I will attempt to translate it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Johnson From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:39:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Johnson Larry et al, Re. the entity report from Mae Chan district, Chiang Rai province, Thailand. To see the sketches and photos (text in Thai), try: http://www.manager.co.th/Local/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9480000125218 Good hunting!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Clinton's Worldview From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:58:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:58:16 -0400 Subject: Clinton's Worldview Source: FinanceAsia.Com http://tinyurl.com/9jhcd 14 September 2005 Clinton's Worldview: Part Two By Lara Wozniak [Excerpts begin] The second part of former US President Clinton's keynote address to CLSA's Investor Forum in Hong Kong this Monday On Monday, former US President Bill Clinton spoke at the CLSA Investors' Forum in Hong Kong, answering questions posed to him from the moderator and the crowd in a 90-minute session. As the questions wore on and he had already promoted his current pet projects, he became more relaxed, kicking back and stretching his legs, swigging a diet Coke and admitting that yes, he did look into whether or not an unidentified flying object - or UFO -- really did crash into the ground near Roswell, New Mexico in 1947. And, if you want to question why the nuclear problem in North Korea has not been settled yet, you need to bear in mind the role in global politics that Yasser Arafat played over the years. Below, is conclusion of a two-part series of his answers. --- =46rom president to president, do you pass along a list of secrets - you know like where's Jimmy Hoffa? What really happened at Roswell? Without giving away any state secrets, is there something that we can all look forward to in the future to read about that you know that we don't know that will make reading the National Enquirer required reading? (Laughing and blushing) Well I don't know if you all heard this, but, there was actually, when I was president in my second term, there was an anniversary observance of Roswell. Remember that? People came to Roswell, New Mexico from all over the world. And there was also a site in Nevada where people were convinced that the government had buried a UFO and perhaps an alien deep underground because we wouldn't allow anybody to go there. And uhm=85 I can say now, 'cause it's now been released into the public domain. I had so many people in my own administration that were convinced that Roswell was a fraud but this place in Nevada was really serious, that there was an alien artefact there. So I actually sent somebody there to figure it out. And it was actually just a secret defence installation, alas, doing boring work that we didn't want anybody to else see. So let me give you a serious thing, though. In 2000, I was able to participate with Tony Blair and representatives of the French, German and Japanese and Canadian governments in announcing that we had succeeded in sequencing the human genome. Perhaps some of you have investments in all these bio- development companies and now you know that we cloned Dolly the sheep and apparently they may have cloned a dog. And my own view is that assuming we don't do something stupid like burn ourselves up with the global warming or blow ourselves up with a military conflict that we could have just as easily avoid, I think a lot of these bio-technology issues will be the dominant sort of intellectual and ethical challenges of the lives of those of you who are 10, 20, 30 years younger than I am. Because I think that we are going to be able to save peoples' lives that, you know, in my generation couldn't be saved. And we are going to come up against the limits of our own mortality in a way we never could before. And a lot of the things that happen - good and bad - will be stranger than anything ever written in science fiction. But I don't know the answers, which is one reason I would like to live to be 100 just to see what happens. (Laughter) So that means there's a list? Or no list? (More laughter - that drowns out his question.) What? What did you say? I don't know what you said, but you should have said, 'There's absolutely no risk of that. Given my misspent youth, I'm lucky to be here now.' What I did say was, is there really no list? Or is there a list? If there is one, I don't know it. The Roswell thing, I think, really was an illusion. I don't think it happened. I mean I think there are rational explanations and I did attempt to find out if there were any secret government documents that revealed things. If there were, they were concealed from me too. And if there were, well I wouldn't be the first American president that underlings have lied to, or that career bureaucrats have waited out. But there may be some career person sitting around somewhere, hiding these dark secrets, even from elected presidents. But if so, they successfully eluded me=85and I'm almost embarrassed to tell you I did (chuckling) try to find out. (Laughter and applause.) I do believe, by the way - one more flaky thing - you can also be flaky when you're out of office. I believe that now that we know that there are not hundreds, not millions but billions of other solar systems out there, thanks to the Hubble telescope and what we know about black holes of the universe, and all of that, the dimensions of physics are such that I would be quite surprised if in the lifetimes of people that are no older than 30 years old, we don't discover some form of life in another universe. It's pretty clear that there was something approaching elemental life on Mars at one time in the past, based on what we discovered there. So I say that, only to say this: I hope all of you, wherever you live, will continue to support space exploration, whether manned or unmanned, it's not so important, but that we keep doing it. And I'm afraid that there will be a waning interest in it, in the future. I think that's a great mistake. I think we should continue to explore the boundaries of our existence, both into the earth and beyond the skies. When I was president we discovered in the bottom of the Amazon River, (we were just a small part of this, but we discovered) two previously undiscovered forms of marine life so deep in the Amazon that they had never been found, in all the efforts of marine biologists. So I think that there are a lot of interesting discoveries - biological, on earth and other discoveries in the heavens that those of you who are younger will get to see unfold. You'll have
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 14 Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:59:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:10:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg >From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>Source: The Space Review >>http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 >>Monday, September 12, 2005 >>Letter: Response To Seti Politics >>by Seth Shostak <snip> >Shostak is a scared and petty fool. Far be it from me to even _appear_ like I'm defending the good Doctor, I mean he quotes reactionary Klasskurtxians as ufological authorities after all, but he is not _entirely_ at fault. Like most who pander after a mainstream that _cannot_ respect them - or cease to be that corrupted mechanism as a result - to the horror and chagrin of its sociopathic handlers - some kool-aid drinking suits like Shostak, howsoever well meaning, are just trying to get their 'program' done is a real world, as you know. This is accomplished in the same way as many of the Black folks did in the US around the 1850s: sucking up to green-toothed gun- waving 'crackers' simply as a way to survive and carry on. Another example: Hector Quintanilla, once head of project Blue Book, bent over backwards for 'the man' in a hostile, unwanted, and career-ending exercise of a 'job' - if you took the job as seriously as Dr. James McDonald thought it should be taken. He looks like a real ufological Uncle Tom today as a resul, but he served with a justifiable degree of honor, provided for himself and his own, and retired. He 'survived.' Betrayed by family, peers, and system? McDonald was driven to suicide. Choose between the two. Dr. Shostak is the front man, the lead singer for his band, and there's a few other people and their effort depending on him to bring home the foundational bacon. Too bad. He must compete for already inadequate dollars in a profoundly underfunded ghetto of ufological imperatives passionately proscribed from the 'official' look, anyway, so he uses his charismatic bully pulpit, such as it is, to ape the - pardon me, but it drives the point home - 'house-nigger'. All you guilty crackers stand easy - black folks know what I mean - to politic for himself and his own. Everyone else is just in the way of survival. Broad-brushed, but can you dig what I'm saying? My message to Dr. Shostak, heeded or not, is that there is no satisfaction in being the ufological 'house-nigger' because the gains are too short term. There is only eventual regret, minimal - and always grudging or easy to lose - gain, no self- respect, the enmity of peers, and ultimate despair. Sincerely, it wasn't Dr. King that was the major impetus in more level playing fields for Black folks in America. It was Malcolm X. It's the system, a system punishing positive ufological 'behavior' while rewarding its game-playing antithesis. Do away with a hostile, sullen, corrupt, jealous, cowardly, insentient, untested faith-based, and actually non-scientific system? We'll see some progress. Where's our ufological Malcolm X? We have Dr. King's in abundance, and where have we gotten in 60 years?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 37 From: John Hayes <John.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:10:24 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:53:09 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 37 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan.nul> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 10, Number 37 September 14, 2005 Editor: Joseph Trainor E-mail: Masinaigan.nul Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ UFO FLAP CONTINUES IN ESSEX, UK On Sunday, September 4, 2005, at 8:15 p.m., Russell Careford reported, "I was driving on Upper Rainham Road" in Roneo Corner, Romford, Essex, UK "when almost directly above me I could see an object that made me say to the others, 'What the heck is that?'" "It looked like something that was flashing constantly and travelling quite quickly but nowhere fast enough to be a meteor. But (also) seemingly too fast for a hot-air balloon. That's if anyone would be daft enough to fly a balloon in pitch-black night. As I chased it down to Rush Green, the thing gained altitude at an alarming rate until after we stopped for a clearer view. We saw it until it got too high for us to see. The object departed to the west." Russell described the UFO as "orange fire with a particular shape, constant burning, unlike the puffing of extra flame you will get from a hot-air balloon. Slowly getting smaller as it got higher. Appeared star-like when we lost sight of it." A week later, on Sunday, September 11, 2005, Robert Sloan was in Loughton, Essex at 10 p.m. when he spotted something unusual in the sky. "After a call from a friend talking about strange lights at 9:30," Robert reported, "I went into my garden (block of flats, ground floor garden facing east--R.S.) to look and saw a triangular formation of reddish-orange lights that were quite fast. I thought they were strange, but the weather was cloudy with clear patches, and there was a low reddish cloud as you often get in the evening." "I assumed these were bright stars and the cloud was somehow colouring them red. It was a bit weird, however, and I noticed that none of the stars that I could see through the gaps in the clouds were similarly coloured." I grabbed a small digital camera, and I was ready to film the sky when they disappeared. But for 15 seconds or so, it didn't seem it was likely I'd see that part of the sky closed again. Pretty much the clouds to my front and right (from northeast to east-southeast--R.S.) were low orange cloud, and to my left and overhead was patchy blue sky." "There wasn't anything I could do once the clouds covered the lights, and I was about to give up and was heading inside when suddenly, from behind where I had been looking, they reappeared. Very much lower and very bright. They were also in front of the low orange cloud and moving rapidly across the sky." "I switched on my camera and started filming, and I was suddenly aware that I was going to witness this and no one else might see it. I then shouted out loud, 'Everyone in the Flats! Look out your window into the sky! Look at the lights!'" "As you can imagine, I was delighted when five or six heads popped out of the windows, and they too were startled by the lights." "As we all watched, the orange orb-like lights proceeded to fly into a position exactly where their star- like lights had first appeared. (to the southeast at about 60 degrees above the horizon--R.S.) I had to film by hope alone, aiming and pointing, as I could see only a black screen on my camera's LCD screen, but they were so bright and so orange-yellow I knew something would show up." "There was absolutely no sound so far as I could hear, and everyone was agreeing, and we were trying to think of an explanation for these mysterious lights. And no one could come up with anything they could relate these lights to." "I have the film I shot on digital JPG. format at about 4.3 megacycles in size lasting some three to four minutes, with around two of the minutes showing the three lights together. It is not very clear, however, as digital has a low resolution. It is still a cool film, though, and better in fact than the one I saw of the Phoenix, Arizona sightings" of 1997. (Email Form Reports) SMALL ALIEN SIGHTED IN NORTHERN THAILAND On Thursday, September 8, 2005, "a crowd of people in the village of Ban Sop Huai Hai in Chiang Mai province" in northern Thailand "saw a small-statured alien in the rice paddies at the edge of the village. The alien was there for an hour, and most of the people saw him. The entity was first seen on this rice farm by four or five of the workers." The word then spread, and more villagers came to see him. The crowd then saw a jahn binh (Thai for flying saucer--J.T.) high in the sky above the rice farm. "Then the alien floated up and disappeared in the air. The phantasm appeared to levitate into the sky." Ban Sop Huai Hai is in northwestern Thailand, about 150 kilometers (90 miles) from Chiang Mai, the provincial capital, and about 500 kilometers (300 miles) northwest of Bangkok, the national capital. (Many thanks to Ruxo Zheng and Terry W. Colvin for this news report.) FLASHING UFO APPEARS OVER SOUTHERN TURKEY On Sunday, September 4, 2005, at 9 p.m., Mehmet Akikvilyet reported, "A UFO flew over the city of Mersin in southern Turkey. We were on the west side of the city, near the coastal area. We were looking at the port facilities when suddenly the UFO appeared. We watched it closely for five minutes." "The mysterious object had flashing blue and green lights. It stopped and hovered over the ships at anchor in the port. At first we thought it might have been a ship itself, but it wasn't. The other ships were below the flashing lights." "Everyone who saw the UFO was shocked. Some of them took photographs. Then a plane appeared at the scene, and the UFO switched off its lights. When it reappeared, only one red light was flashing on it, and then it disappeared in the sky. The whole time was about ten minutes. It was a real experience, not a daydream." "The UFO departed to the northwest," over the Toros Daglari mountains. Mersin is a port city on the Mediterranean Sea, located about 225 kilometers (135 miles) southeast of Ankara, the capital of Turkey. (Email Form Report) ANOTHER UFO SIGHTED IN SANTA ROSA, ARGENTINA On Tuesday, August 30, 2005, at 7:30 p.m., the witness reported, "A large jetliner had just landed at the airport in Santa Rosa, the capital of La Pampa province in Argentina. I am a security worker at the airport. The jet was taxiing towards the terminal when a fellow worker said, 'Look at the lights up there in the sky. How strange!'" "At first I thought it was a joke. But upon looking, I saw a light four to five times larger than a star or planet towards the northwest. What most attracted my attention was that it was beautiful and it had the characteristic glow of a star and a wake (trail--J.T.) that was white but tended more towards orange at the rear. It took off (southeast) as though headed for Bahia Blanca." An Argentinian airline pilot also reported, "This one caught my attention because it was my understanding that it was flying very high. The object was flying three times faster than my plane, at least." Santa Rosa is "a point of reference" in Argentina's air grid, and pilots check in with the tower when they register the beacon at Santa Rosa airport. According to ufologist Scott Corrales, "The UFO was also seen south of Santa Rosa" in Coronel Eugenio del Busto, Jacinto Aruz and Guatrache, "communities in the southeastern corner of La Pampa province." (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Salvatore Valentin Carta para estas noticias.) COUPLE SPOTS A UFO IN KATY, TEXAS On Saturday, September 3, 2005, at 8 p.m., eyewitnesses Steve and Mary were at their home in Katy, Texas (population 11,775) when they spotted a strange light in the sky. "We first saw it approaching from the north," they reported, "At first we thought we were sighting the North Star (Polaris--J.T.). It was a cloudy night, and the sky was affected by the fires in the Gulf area (resulting from Hurricane Katrina--J.T.) The object was a dull orange. An orange point of light--much as if Mars was flying close by. Looked about planetary size from our point of view. The orange object moved quite quickly to the west and vanished." Katy is on Interstate Highway 10 about 25 miles (40 kilometers) west of Houston. (Email Form Report) TRIANGULAR UFO SIGHTED IN MINNIE, KENTUCKY On Wednesday, September 7, 2005, at 12:15 a.m., Charles Castle reported, "Dad was outside smoking," at their home in Minnie, Kentucky "and he hollered at me to come look. The object was triangular-shaped and seemed to have red, white and maybe yellowish lights along its V- shape. It was moving slowly and lower than any airplane." "And the sound it made was nothing like any airplane. It was a very low humming noise. We watched as it went around Slone Mountain" and disappeared. (Email Form Report) HOVERING UFO SEEN OVER EXETER, NEW HAMPSHIRE On Tuesday, September 6, 2005, and Friday, September 9, 2005, a UFO with flashing red, white and blue lights was sighted over Exeter, one of New Hampshire's most notorious UFO hotspots. Eyewitness Dan Cook reported, "On both nights I saw stationary red, white and blue lights oscillating between the cloud layers in Exeter (population 9,759). The object remained fairly stationary, making small minute circles in the same spot on both nights." "I called a friend who lives 75 miles (120 kilometers) to the north," near Berlin, N.H., "and they were able to describe what we were seeing, as we did not tell them. They saw it in their southern sky. It was a circular object, as high as a commercial plane would fly (30,000 feet or 9,000 meters--J.T.)." Exeter was the site of a famous UFO flap forty years ago, in September 1965. More recently, UFOs were seen there in August 2005. (Email Form Report) LUMINOUS UFO SEEN OVER CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA On Friday, September 2, 2005, at 9 p.m., Katherine D. Bragg reported, "My husband and I were fishing in the Kanawha River near the state Capitol in Charleston, West Virginia (population 53,421). I noticed a bright star near the Big Dipper (Ursa Major--J.T.). I watched it because it was brighter than all the other stars. It then started moving and crossed the sky going southeast." "My husband thought it was the International Space Station because it was so high. We could see airplanes up there, but this was much different. It disappeared over the mountains." "About ten minutes later, it came back much lower, and now there were two of them flying side by side. Pale white lights with no navigation lights. Star-like. No blinking lights and no sound, but these two were much lower--below the height (altitude) of planes. They looked like stars but pale." "We watched them go northwest toward the Big Dipper for about 30 seconds until my husband hooked a large catfish. After we landed the fish, the UFOs were gone. The night was clear and there were many stars visible despite the city lights. They were up very high, well above 35,000 feet (9,150 meters)." (Email Form Report) NEW CROP CIRCLE TURNS UP IN SASKATCHEWAN On Thursday, September 8, 2005, a new crop circle "was discovered in a field of barley in St. Gregor, Saskatchewan," Canada. This was the fifth crop circle found in Canada during 2005. The formation "was slightly elliptical with an offset spiral centre, ranging from approximately 14.4 metres (47.4 feet) to 15.4 metres (50.5 feet). Counterclockwise lay. Some crossed layering in the eastern portion of the circle. Estimated to be two to three weeks old when first found, and the field has already been harvested." (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of Canadian Crop Circles Research Network for this news item.) NEW MYSTERY FOUND ON SATURN'S MOON ENCELADUS "Planetary scientists are intrigued by the latest findings from the flyby in July (2005) of Saturn's moon Enceladus." The robot spacecraft Cassini managed "the detection of hot spots at the moon's south pole." "Usually, the hottest part of any planet or moon is around the equator, as is the case with Earth, mission scientists said at a news conference Tuesday," August 30, 2005. "On Enceladus, however, the heat is greatest in the south pole region near a series of ground fissures referred to as 'tiger stripes.' John Spencer of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colorado, says: 'It's like flying past Antarctica and finding that it's warmer than Earth's equatorial regions. It's that strange.'" "Further analysis suggests that water vapor and fine water-ice particles may be venting from the fissures." (See USA Today for August 31, 2005, "'Strange' hot spots at Saturn moon's pole," page 5D.) SPIRIT GOES MOUNTAIN- CLIMBING ON MARS Even while New Orleans was being destroyed by the kind of apocalyptic disaster that used to be found only in the pages of Marvel Comics, "the Mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity are continuing to function and have long outlasted their missions, NASA said." "'Today is Day 591 of our 90-day mission to Mars,' mission principal investigator Steve Squyres said." "Scientists released a picture of the Martian landscape shot by Spirit from a hill it took a year to ascend. The rover reached the 270-foot (81-meter) Husband Hill on (Sunday) August 21 (2005)." "'That's no Mount Everest, but for a little rover this was a heck of a climb,' Squyres said." "The six-wheeled, solar-powered Spirit and its twin, Opportunity, landed on opposite sides of Mars in January 2004 to look for evidence of the history of water." (See USA Today for September 2, 2005, "Rover scales Husband Hill on Mars," page 7A.) >From the UFO Files... 1936: UFOs OVER KANSAS At about 10:30 p.m., on Monday, September 14, 1936, farmer William Beverly Hamilton, 20, climbed the back porch steps of his parents' house south of Wichita, Kansas. The screen door creaked as he strode into the darkened kitchen. The sun had been down for a couple of hours, but it was still hot--well over 90 degrees Fahrenheit. For this was the height of "the Dust Bowl," and 1936 had been a year of unprecedented drought in Kansas. Bill peeled off his shirt, hung it on the back of a kitchen chair, and then rummaged in the icebox. Sure enough, Momma had left him a pitcher of fresh lemonade. There was a tall glass on the tablecloth, too. Bill poured himself a tall one and quaffed it down. It tasted like the nectar of the gods running down his parched, dust-caked throat. Bill turned on the kitchen light and then tried the Atwater Kent radio. Hearing a burst of static, he turned it down low, not wanting to disturb his parents, who were trying to get to sleep upstairs. Maybe he could pick up the all-night station in Topeka. Patiently he turned the dial. The needle went from one end of the waveband to the other. There was nothing but static. Suddenly, a sound came through, the blare of a jazz band. Startled, Bill turned the volume a bit lower. "...concludes the first half of our program. Next up--Mr. Cab Calloway, making a special appearance right here at the House of Blues. Stay tuned to WLS, the Voice of Chicagoland, for the best in jazz..." Chicago!? Bill frowned in bewilderment. That's hundreds of miles away. Yet it's coming through as clear as a bell. No static at all. What is this? Finishing his lemonade, Bill listened as the black singer began his number. "Hi-de-hi-de-hi...ho-de-ho-de- ho..." "Hi-de-hi-de-hi," Bill murmured, absentmindedly singing along. Then, as he passed the kitchen window, he did an instant doubletake. "Ho-de-ho-de...Holey Moley! What the hell is that!?" Peering through the slightly dusty glass, Bill saw a circular bright blue light zigzagging through the night sky above his father's wheat field, about a half-mile north of the Arkansas River. He watched in amazement as the blue light was joined by another, and then another, and then another. I must be dreaming, he thought. I fell asleep in a kitchen chair, and I'm dreaming. That's the only explanation. Bill squeezed his eyes shut and then opened. The four luminous blue objects were still there, tracing a leisurely circle in the sky above the wheat field. The blue objects reminded Bill of his mother's pie plates. They seemed to tilt at odd angles, self-luminous with that eerie blue light but not illuminating the parched wheat on the ground. "Bucky?" The boyhood nickname brought Bill out of his stunned reverie. Turning, he saw his mother standing in the doorway in her flannel nightgown. Concern flashed across her features. "What is it? What's the matter?" "Momma, come over here and take a look." Bill guided her by her thin shoulders to the window. "Tell me what you see." Mrs. Hamilton looked. Then her hand touched the base of her throat, and she cast her son a puzzled glance. "I- -I don't know. What is it?" "That's what I'd like to know," Bill replied. "Go fetch your daddy." Bill took the stairs two at a time and then pushed open his parents' bedroom door. His father, William Turner Hamilton, sat upright on the edge of the bed, pulling his suspenders on. "What in Sam Hill is going on downstairs?" "Look out the window, Dad." The elder Hamilton did so. His jaw dropped a full inch. "Sweet Mother of Pearl!" Within minutes, the three Hamiltons were on the back porch, staring upward at the strange aerial display in the sky. The "plates," as Bill's mother called them, hovered motionless for several minutes. Then, glowing a slightly brighter blue, they zipped to the east in single file, then made an "impossible" 90-degree turn to the south. The strange maneuvers went on for nearly fifteen minutes. And then, without a sound, the UFOs darted south toward the Arkansas River and disappeared over the horizon. It was a night Bill Hamilton never forgot. Times change. When Bill and his wife returned to Wichita's North High School in 1985 for his class's 50th reunion, he couldn't believe the changes in what, to him, would always be "farm country." The family farm, which his father had bought in 1921 when Bill was five, was no longer there, replaced by Hydraulic Avenue and its strip malls. The cottonwood grove and "ol' swimming hole" on the Arkansas where he and his friends had "gone skinny- dipping" as boys were now part of the sprawling Boeing plant. But still he remembered the night of the UFOs. His widow, Norma, recalls: "Bill was born on August 13, 1916. He was in his early twenties at the time. My husband was a very intelligent man, not apt to imagine such things. He told me of this sighting several times before his death in 1986. In the late 1930s, my husband often saw these lights zipping around over his father's farm. They changed direction suddenly, hovering and then streaking away." "I do not know how many events there were. But there were more than one." UFOs before Roswell? They're rare...but they're there. (Many thanks to Norma Hamilton for the email interview.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth--and occasionally, Mars and Saturn--brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you next time. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2005 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/submit/sightings.shtml -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Home to UFO Roundup, Encounters With Aliens On This Day, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert Rosales), Filer's Files, UFO News UK and more... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: The Times Klass Obituary - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:06:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:54:30 -0400 Subject: Re: The Times Klass Obituary - Lehmberg >Source: The Times - London - UK >Obituaries >September 12, 2005 >Philip Klass >November 8, 1919 - August 9, 2005 >Ufologist whose meticulous investigations exposed UFO sightings >as mistaken identity or hoax <snip> ...I've known ufologists, ufologists are friends of mine, Mr. Klass was _no_ ufologist.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:40:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:57:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds >From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review <snip> >SETI is a theory in search of data. End of story. <snip> >Shostak is a scared and petty fool. J. Craig: But Shostak has charm, and panache. That's how he and his cohorts keep SETI alive (funded).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Filer's Files #38 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:59:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:09:09 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #38 - 2005 Filer's Files #38 -- 2005 George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International September 14, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com Life from Space This week we review Prince Phillip's interest in UFOs, When the USAF was in the UFO business, Did UFOs win the Cold War? Search for life and Panspermia. UFO Weather Map summary of sightings. Reports of sightings from Arizona, California, Illinois, Missouri, Minnesota North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Washington and Wisconsin. Sightings were also reported in Australia, Bulgaria, Canada, Crimea, Jordan, Mexico, and the UK. Prince Phillip interest in UFOs While living in England I had the privilege of dining in with Prince Phillip, His Royal Highness and Duke of Edinburgh at Sculthorpe RAF Base. He told five of us officers about his keen interest in UFOs and that some of his relatives had seen them. He reiterated what he stated much earlier in the press, "There are many reasons to believe that they (UFOs) do exist. There is so much evidence from reliable witnesses." Sunday Dispatch, London. March 28, 1954. He was promoted to Admiral of the Fleet on 15th January 1953. His other British service appointments are Field Marshal of the Army and Marshal of the Royal Air Force. Prince Philip achieved 5,986 hours in 59 types of aircraft. He was interested in our sightings over England. He told us that, Admiral Earl 'Dickie' Mountbatten who was at sea as the Fourth Sea Lord, and was Commander of the Mediterranean Fleet in the 50s had personally seen one." Air Force tracked UFOs for twenty two years =46rom 1947 to 1969, Americans accounted for 12,618 reports of unidentified flying objects many by aircrews. It was up to investigators at Ohio's Wright-Patterson Air Force Base to determine if extraterrestrial beings, in fact, had descended from space to Earth. Research on UFOs was called by several names including "Project Blue Book." A friend of mine, Colonel Ray Sleeper, who was commander of Foreign Technology Division sent the study of UFOs to the University of Colorado. Ray had observed a UFO high above his aircraft but had doubts about its identity. In 1969, after the results of study were released the United States Air Force declared itself out of the UFO business, but admitted that 701 sightings remained "unidentified." The Air Force found it prudent to ignore. General Benjamin Chidlaw told investigators , "We have stacks of reports about flying saucers. We take them seriously when you consider we have lost many men and planes trying to intercept them." Commander Air Defense Command 1951 to 1955. Navy Admiral Delmar Fahrney made this public statement, 1957 "Reliable reports indicate there are objects coming into our atmosphere at very high speeds and controlled by thinking intelligence's." Blue Book's documents and photographs comprise 42 cubic feet of declassified records -- numbering 2,000 pages per cubic foot -- now housed in the National Archives. Harry S. Truman got involved in July 26, 1952. A memo out of Box 26 reveals that "the President had requested Gen. Landry to find out the details of the sighting that had occurred in Washington on Saturday night." I just returned from the Air Force Association Conference in Washington DC and talked to many members who reported that aircrews are reporting UFOs on a regular basis. They also assume they are getting a small percentage of actual sightings based on the ridicule factor. See www.afa.org. PRESIDENT REAGAN stated at the United Nations regarding extraterrestrials in Sept. 21, 1987, "IS NOT AN ALIEN FORCE ALREADY AMONG US?" At the time the USSR and the US were locked in the Cold War ready to unleash thousands of nuclear warheads almost at any moment. Mikhail Gorbachev, in a speech at the Kremlin "For a Nuclear Free World and the Survival of Humanity" in Moscow on Feb 16, 1987 stated, "In spite of the differences between us, we must all learn to preserve our one big family of humanity. At our Geneva meeting, the US President said that if the earth faced an invasion by extraterrestrials, the United States and the Soviet Union would join forces to repel such an invasion. I shall not dispute the hypothesis, though I think it is early yet to worry about such an intrusion." Soviet Life Supplement May 1987. Gorbachev was chosen by Time Magazine as one of the most important men of the Twentieth Century. The two most powerful men in the world were talking about extraterrestrials and Star Wars (anti-missile) weapons system that President Reagan offered to share with the Soviets. Not generally known to the American public is that the Soviet military reported UFOs were attacking and destroying Soviet facilities causing great concern. It is my theory that UFOs play a much larger role in the affairs of men than anyone realizes. Launch of THADD missile. Deep Impact ejected the stuff of life Maggie McKee of NewScientist.com news service reports "This sequence, taken by the high resolution instrument on the Deep Impact flyby spacecraft, shows the development of the cloud of ejected material. "http://adserver.adtech.de/?adlink|2.0|289|113572|1|170|ADTECH;lo c=3D300;This composite image, taken by the impactor targeting sensor on Deep Impact, arrows show two areas where the surface is smooth instead of spotted with depressions (Image: Science) Millions of kilograms of fine dust particles and water and a "surprisingly high" amount of organic molecules sprayed into space when NASA crashed its Deep Impact spacecraft into Comet 9P/Tempel 1 on 4 July 2005, reveal a trio of new studies. The observations bolster theories that comets may have seeded Earth with the raw materials for life and suggest they may be sponge-like =96 rather than hardened =96 at their cores. They found that the 72 trillion kilogram-nucleus was extremely porous, with as much as 80% of its volume taken up by empty space. "That tells me there is no solid layer all the way down to the centre," says Mike A'Hearn, the mission's principal investigator at the University of Maryland in College Park, US. He says he had expected that the ice might become denser towards the core of the nucleus, but that instead "probably all the way in, ice is all in the form of tiny grains". "It's like a sponge, with a lot of cavities. Observers estimate the impact released about 5 million kilograms of water from beneath the comet's surface and between two and five times as much dust. The team estimates the impact blasted away a crater about 100 metres wide and up to 30 m deep. Crucially, organic molecules were among the material ejected. Researchers say they have found a surprisingly high amount of methyl cyanide, a molecule seen in large quantities in another comet. This supports theories that comets may have brought water and the building blocks of life to Earth. http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=3Ddn7961 http://www.space.com/searchforlife/aliens_all_001027-1.html Search for life Panspermia, Panspermia a theory which holds that the stuff of life is everywhere and that we humans owe our genesis to a continual rain of foreign microbes coming to Earth aboard comets or meteorites. The concept is that alien microbes can travel through space and survive. In fact, various diseases may come from space. Life is tenacious and thrives. President Clinton announced that Martian bacteria fossils from a meteorite had been found in Antarctica. A group of researchers, reporting in the October 19 issue of Nature, claims to have found and revived spore bacteria on Earth that were dormant, hiding in New Mexican salt crystals for 250 million years and likely nearly immortal. Sir Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe are the leading proponents of the theory. "Now that has changed." The prevailing Darwinian theory holds that life arose spontaneously out of a terrestrial, chemical. In the 1800s, French chemist Louis Pasteur proposed that spontaneous generation of life could not have occurred on Earth. British physicist Lord Kelvin and others jumped on Pasteur's bandwagon and suggested that life might have come from space. In the 1970s, Wickramasinghe and Hoyle found what they say are traces of life in the dust around virtually all stars, arguing that a continual rain of life-altering stuff from space -- including germs that arrive in cycles related to solar activity -- has affected the course of life on earth and the seeds, they say, are still coming. UFO Weather Map summary of sightings 'Steve Reichmuth' MUFON SSD - Alameda County, California is creating and plotting numerous reports from Peter Davenport Director of the www.ufocenter.com and John Schuessler http://www.mufon.com. August Summary: Steve Reichmuth reports for August 2005 is roughly about half the number of July 2005 sightings reported. There are two entity reports from MUFON CMS. A 'Big foot' sighting associated with a craft near Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And most significantly, an extensive abduction report with illustrations from the MUFON Investigator in Wikee Wachee, Florida. There were noticeable 'Triangle' sightings just North of Eugene, Oregon, sightings over a period of one week. Southern California sighting reports have diminished. The bulk of California sightings in August now has shifted to the Northern California region from San Francisco to Reno, Nevada. Susanville, California had another sighting in August, one previously in same area in July. California activity patterns seems to alternate monthly between northern and southern regions of this state. Why? The Twin Cities- Minneapolis/St. Paul appears very active with reports. Tennessee is showing activity uniformly spread across this state. Northern Georgia too. New York and other New England states show many reports. The Hudson Valley areas now seem to show a marked increase in reports in August compared to past summer months just plotted this year. A sighting near Monterey, Mexico, and a Triangle sighting south of near San Juan, Puerto Rico. August 'UFO Weather Map' issued September 05, 2005. Thanks to Steve Reichmuth MUFON SSD Alameda,CA who plotted the reports .skipjack.nul His maps were inspired by the fine Larry Hatch maps. Detailed data is kept at: http://forums.uforesearcher.com/cgi- bin/ultimatebb.cgi Arizona three large spherical orange lights ESTRELLA MOUNTAIN RANCH -- I was driving home and normally EM Parkway is pitch black, but on September 6, 2005, at 9:30 PM I noticed an orange light reflecting off the clouds, much like streetlights do in a city. I didn't think much of it, but when I reached the stop sign where I'm supposed to turn, there it was, three balls of orange lights, like street lights in the sky. I've never seen anything like this before - so I continued driving straight instead of turning away. Well after a few moments of trying to get a closer view, they were gone. I did not see them again. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC http://www.hbccufo.org Editor's Note: a similar sighting occurred on August 25, 2005, in the Estrella Mountains. California a bright orb ALTA LOMA =96 My husband and I were in the spa on September 5, 2005, about 9:30 PM when we saw a bright star too low above the trees to the east. It was moving extremely slow, south and up, toward the sky. By looking carefully I noticed a red flicker. I got out my camcorder and recorded it however it would not get the rest of the star just the bright circle I was looking at. Then I got out my professional Cannon Eos 1ds Mark 11 and put it on a tripod and started to take pictures. I have all the stars and this bright orb, come to find out when looking at my picture, there was not just one but four of these objects in the sky. It clearly photographed completely different than the other stars, bright yellow with a red ring around it. In one image it seems to have a trail. Thanks to Brian Vike MODESTO =96 R. David Anderson writes, "I took this photo of a UFO on the night of August 18, as two planes circled near the UFO." In the picture it appears as though the object swung around in a counterclockwise direction and went north with a discernable light trail behind it. . The auto-enhancement tends to bring out the more luminous areas. Thanks to R. David Anderson. Illinois floating basketball MUFON's Sam Maranto writes, that the Westmont case is interesting because a client of mine and her daughter have been photographing some unusual objects in Warrenville near Chicago. They also claim to have had visitation and we're giving it a serious look. I have one case with a black orb the size of a basketball floating in a basement in Homer Glen, Illinois. The people are seeing copies of other family members doing unusual acts (Mimics) very strange, though not the first time I've heard of such an observation. If it wasn't for the fact that I have known that family for 45 years, I would really have to wonder. Keep up the good work and when you come out here call me. Thanks to SSD/FI MUFON's Sam Maranto Minnesota flying triangle MINNETONKA =96 On August 23, 2005, I was pulling off the highway and realized a light was too close to be Mars because it was growing in size. I pulled into the Hopkins parking lot and observed an object about 200 feet away. It was a flying triangle very close to ground with little noise. It moved very little over the course of 26 seconds then was gone at 10:25 PM. As it started to move, I grabbed my camera and took five photos in the course of ten seconds. I could hear a slight whirring sound like the sound of a jet. It looked like a triangular plane similar to the F-117 with two white lights and a flashing red light in the center and traveling too slowly. The object passed by 15 seconds later and I took some photos. It was black and when the red light flashed, I could see a slight outline of the thing. The two photos that came out best show it against a building. It moved across only 15% of the viewing area between the two photos and my digital camera stamped the times five seconds apart. That seems far too slow to be a plane. The object pulled over the highway and disappeared. Missouri dome shaped objects CASSVILLE =96 On August 31, September 1st and 2nd, Jack, Judy, Donna, and I saw lights in the western sky. There were two lights and one appeared to be further away. I looked through my rifle scope and the objects were dome shaped in the center with flat edges. They seemed to have wings when they moved positions and they started to dance after about 25 minutes. Then they moved away and disappeared. There are red flame looking things and a green light. The next night I waited with my camera and the close ups show something like reddish clouds that change shape and move. You have to see the pictures... Three of us agree that in one shot, it looks like a man sitting, but they have tails in some shots, that end at a point of light. I noticed a lot of planes in the area at those times. These lights start to dance, then disappear. Thanks to Freida Ohio rainbow UFOs FOSTORIA -- George Ritter continues to shoot extraordinary video as shown in this September 9, 2005, but now he has someone about fifty miles away taking similar photos. AKRON =96 Amy writes, I took a video on August 28, 2005 and here are stills from that video. The objects move way too fast for birds. There were two rainbow spots filmed in the sky for over an hour. After the spots disappear, an object appears to come from behind the tree to the left, (where the one spot had been) then a few minutes later another one comes from the right and goes up. The second UFO appears from behind the same trees but climbs in altitude at a startling rate. I really would like someone who knows to check it out and make sure I'm not seeing bugs that are close to the camera lens. Last night I went to the Barberton Speedway where my dad is a retired racer and they had an induction ceremony to retire his number. I was snapping photos of my sister and I got these photos of some kind of energy. Photos were taken with a Canon digital camera and the photos before and after are normal. I Thanks to Amy. Nevada photos and cylinder LAS VEGAS =96Scott writes, "These photos were taken as still shots with my Sony digital camcorder (with zoom lens) by my home in Las Vegas. I have hundreds of photographs like this. It's really surprising how numb we all are to what's going on. I hope you enjoy. Thanks to Scott INCLINE VILLAGE =96 The witnesses saw a rainbow of colored lights over Lake Tahoe on August 30, 2005, at 10:31 PM. She saw a cylinder shaped craft hovering over one spot for ten minutes when viewed through binoculars and a telescope. We watched as the lights changed through a series of rainbow lights from red thru purple/blue. The cylinder object made animals in area act strange and howl. The pattern continued for a full 10 minutes and then vanished into the sky leaving no trails. Prior to sighting of the object our animals started to act strange and all the dogs in the area started to howl like wolves and then all was quiet. Thanks to Peter Davenport North Carolina These two objects were shot approximately 10 seconds apart at 1:04 AM, on September 10, 2005 at a known UFO-active site in central North Carolina. Flash photos were made with a digital camera for both pictures. Despite a huge number of UFO and orb photos thus far, these images appear to be the oddest objects I have photographed so far. Over 20,000 pictures have been taken in the last 18 months shooting randomly at various parts of the sky. I now have over 100 UFO photos but I am only beginning to tackle a backlog of several thousands of pictures waiting to be carefully studied from this year's field observations. Quite a few nocturnal light UFOs have been seen over the area, as well, since May. We will continue to report our discoveries through Filers Files as they occur. Alan Caviness - Carolina Group Research Project Get your free CD by sending a donation to these Files. Oklahoma reports of sightings TINKER AFB TOULOUSE-- I have had a life long fascination with the UFOs and abductions. I have witnessed several aerial phenomena in my life, one of which was a confirmed UFO sighting. I was headed north on the Interstate 35, just south of Moore, OK around midnight and I was listening to KOMA radio station when the DJ announced that he was getting real time reports of UFOs over Tinker AFB. This was in the mid 60s, within seconds, three glowing amber ovals were spotted to the east, moving westerly in a triangular formation at a seemingly leisurely pace. They crossed the highway 5000 feet in front of us and I pulled the car off onto the shoulder and we got out and watched the lights disappear over the western horizon. A group of military fighters came out of the east in hot pursuit. There were three other passengers in my car in the fall of 1966. Thanks to Brian Vike Tennessee barbell UFO CARTER COUNTY -- AUFORC network interviewed two witnesses who viewed a silent barbell shaped object cross the sky at 11 PM, on August 31, 2005. The object was illuminated by city lights and was moving slowly to the southeast. Witnesses agreed that the object appeared gunmetal gray and had two large round structures, one front and one rear, connected by a small tube- like structure making up one third of the overall length. Illumination consisted of two white steady lights on the forward portion of the object and two red lights on the rear of the structure. One blinking light and one steady. The object was described as moving slowly, silently and steady across the sky in a straight path. Thanks to Kim Shaffer Coordinator/Appalachian UFO Research Center www.auforc.com Washington observed a white round object PUYALLUP -- I observed a white round object just East of Sun. It moved to westward of Sun on September 8, 2005, at 11:55 AM to Noon. Clear blue sky and moving East to West. Then at 12 noon it just vanished. It appeared about four times the diameter of Venus. From about 5 o'clock position on object there was a blue extension of a length about half the diameter of object. It moved from an angular altitude of about 60 degrees, bearing about 115 degrees True, to an angular altitude of about 75 degrees, bearing about 195 degrees True. It appeared to cross the sky about the speed of a jet passenger plane flying at 25,000 to 30,000 feet. It is about three miles north of a small airplane Thun airport, Pierce County. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC http://www.hbccufo.org RENTON HIGHLANDS -- On August 30, 2005, at 8:47 PM, the witness was facing due west and saw a small object about thirty degrees above the horizon that looked the size of a sea gull at two hundred yards. It came in my direction and passed over my residence to the north at 85 degrees above the horizon, still heading due east and not altering course or speed. It was a completely round craft and was glowing faint orange on the bottom. At its closest position it was the size of my little finger nail held at arm's length and completely round and flat like a disk, it had a gray rim. It had no lights, just the faint orange glow under the whole craft. It went out of sight on the easterly horizon and made no noise. It took 15 - 20 seconds to cross my field of view and did not look like a satellite, space station, or plane. Peter Davenport spoke at length with the witness, and we believe he probably is a quite credible witness. PD)) Wisconsin Brilliant Strobing Object FREDERIC =96 The witness video taped an object at 5:50 AM, on September 3, 2005, in the eastern sky for about a minute. The object moved that far in that time. It was strobing like that the whole time. We have the same kind of lights going by here in the valley all night long practically every night. I have watched to see if they would repeat nightly at the same times but they do not. The camera is stationary on a tripod and located on our deck. It moves along pretty good. Footage and photos are =A9 S.R.L. 2005 Thanks to Brian Vike. http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews =3Darticle =3D3116 Argentina UFO sighted SANTA ROSA -- On August 30, 2005, at 7:30 PM a witness reported, a large jetliner had just landed at the in Santa Rosa Airport lights were spotted up there in the sky. I am a security worker at the airport and saw a light four to five times larger than a planet towards the northwest. It was white but tended more towards orange at the rear and flew off to the southeast. An Argentinean airline pilot also reported, "This one caught my attention because it was flying very high and three times faster than my plane, at least." Thanks to Scott Corrales. Australia sightings ADELAIDE =96 Kathy reports, "You may be interested in these two photo's. They were taken in my back garden in Winter facing west at 9 PM. The camera used was a Kodak 4200CX. There should be two shots of pulsed orbs. If you enlarge them you will be able to see that they seem to be moving at a rapid rate of speed. Both these shots were less than two meters away from me at the time." Thanks to Kathy in Australia. NEWCASTLE -- Blake writes, "I was taken by surprise when I viewed the photo that my father took yesterday whilst watching a soccer match. Close up of last week's shot." Thanks to Blake, orham.nul Bulgaria circular object SOPHIA -- On August 31 2005, at midnight one of my friends and I were in a school yard watching the sky when I saw a red colored bright oval spot flying above it. First, I thought it was a big star, but it moved too fast and illogical, left and then right. I don't think the pilot might be drunk! Thanks to Peter Davenport Canada sightings continue SQUAMISH, B.C. -- I was closing the blinds to my sliding door on September 8, 2005 and I saw a strange very white flickering low on the horizon from 1030 to 1055 p.m. I at first mistook the "flashes for lightning, as there had been some clouds earlier and the weather report had predicted a shower for the following day. It didn't "feel" like lightning does when I saw it. The flashes were regular and constant. That is when I realized that the "train" that I had presumed was passing at that time was still making the same very low to almost inaudible, but very deep humm-throb noise/vibration, like a large truck was idling nearby or something. The noise and flashes/flickers of this low lying strangeness continued for about 25 minutes. It stopped suddenly in the middle of a flash, and was gone. The sound, also. quite abruptly ceased. My boyfriend, who was driving up the highway from Vancouver towards Squamish with another fellow at the time, had witnessed the same lights. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC http://www.hbccufo.org VANCOUVER, BC -- The first time I was at my friend's house - house-sitting while she was away, I noticed an orb over the North Shore Mountains - over North Vancouver on August 1, 2005 from 11 PM to after midnight. . I looked to my left towards Burnaby - east - and noticed another one at about the same height in the sky. At first I thought they were planets because of how large they were, they could actually be seen in the night sky. We don't see a lot of stars in Vancouver due to the city lights - and the objects were changing colors and flickering. I looked west out over the West End of Vancouver and saw another one at the same height in the sky, in a triangle formation (an equilateral triangle). They were the same orb shape and changing colors from white to red to blue to green and continuing. I have seen them frequently in almost the same location pretty much anytime I look in those directions from my friend's balcony at night. Not always three, but a combination. OSHAWA, ONTARIO =96 Paul Shishis writes on Sunday, September .4, 2005, between 11:30 AM to 2:30 PM, I have been witnessing multiple sightings, over Ontario. I confirm in seeing them with the naked eye and photos included, as it's more, than just flying seeds up there!. Some of the higher objects stay stationary for a couple of minutes. This first photo to the top left illustrates two large white spherical objects, with a third smaller white object close to the group of two. I will also forward more photos, of these objects to justify, what my eyes are seeing, quite high in our skies. We are sorry to report Paul's father crossed over on Aug.25,2005. Thanks to Paul Early this morning, September10, 2005, at 12:50 AM, I witnessed two extreme pulses of white, bluish light, with definition of a perfect," round" circle. The interval from first flash, to second flash, occurred about three minutes after. Each was viewed for a split second. Later that morning, after 11:15 AM, from my backyard, I viewed a noticeable black-reddish, morphing, 2-3 second flashing, and roundest object. I watched in amazement as this object, slowly to stationary, flying from the south to the north, over my position, at about 2000-3000 feet. The object's speed was about 0-20 MPH. I snapped 15 photos. After 10-12 minutes of picture taking, watched in disbelief again. One thing to note is that they sprayed heavy, just after the sighting. There are way too many sightings that I and other witnesses are seeing. Thanks to Paul China Dragon Photo JILIN --At about 6 p.m. on August 6, two students walked out of their library at Jilin University. A female student, Xiaobin shouted, look, a flying dragon is in the sky! Her boyfriend Li captured an image of the dragon on his picture-phone, providing the second instance of photo documentation of a dragon flying over China so far this summer. The dragon was a bright, gigantic animal-shaped object flying in the sky, heading southeast. It was incredibly dazzling, just like a dragon. In the middle of the photo is a distant-looking dragon-shaped object, complete with four limbs and a tail. A glowing, red dragon-shaped flying object streaked across the sky, illuminating the evening sky just after the sun had disappeared from sight. http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-9-12/32216.html and Skywatch International Crimea, Ukraine bright object SIMFEROPOL -- On the evening of Thursday, September 8, 2005, Victor Alexandrovich Zdorov saw a UFO, at 20:55 hours while walking his dog near the center of Simferopol. He got an ache in his legs, and when he looked up, he saw a bright object in the northeast emitting white-bluish light, ten times brighter than Venus. The object was hovering for several seconds, and then began gaining altitude and speed and quickly disappeared going into space in a total of 15 seconds. Thanks to Anton A. Anfalov "mailto:an.nul" Jordan Triangle AMMAN =96 I was looking at Polaris (North Star) from my balcony to align my telescope when I saw in my naked eyes a group of small, yellow circular lights in the form of triangle head (around 15 of them) passing above me in the sky at a considerable speed going in a northwest direction. I called my wife to see them and she did and then I called my four daughters to come with us to the roof to have a better view. They kept traveling as a group but some of them were not keeping the same distance and speed from each other. They were slowing and speeding up. This lasted 2-3 minutes when they disappeared over the horizon. This was the first time in my life that I saw a UFO. Thanks to Peter Davenport Mexico photos of UFO CIUDAD SAT=C9LITE REGION =96 These photos were taken in the Ciudad Sat=E9lite region of the State of Mexico. Ana Luisa Cid reports taking photos of a very bright light traveling in a north-south direction along Perif=E9rico Avenue. Within minutes, it joined another luminous object of larger size that presented a reddish coloring. Thanks to Ana Luisa Cid and Scott Corrales www.analuisacid.com.mx UK lights photographed. CHELTENHAM -- We have had reports and photos of the "3 light" phenomenon on July 15, 2005. Attached is a low-res enhanced photo. One of our researchers, Bruce, took the photos and reported: "They were reasonably large like car spot lights but not so intense, they were a dull orangey brown colour, like car headlights and flying quite low in an elongated triangular formation. They were heading towards Hatherley in formation. There was no sound at all. They changed course towards Shurdington Road but then stopped, still holding formation. The one appearing to be top right seemed to be moving away towards and into clouds, therefore elongating the triangle formation. They were climbing and I Iost track of them one by one as a large cloud moved in the way. : http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/parasoc/lst?.dir=3D/UFOs+ Subscribe to Filer's Files to receive CD So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. Help solve the mysteries of the universe. We have been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Your dollars do make a difference! We appreciate our loyal subscribers participation but we need everyone's help not just a few. Annual Membership is only $25 for 52 weekly intelligence reports. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055. You can also go to: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master Charge. MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO see http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ.nul Filer's Files is copyrighted 2005 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 UFOs Gravity & Inertia [was: Harvard Exorcising From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:00:15 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:42:11 -0400 Subject: UFOs Gravity & Inertia [was: Harvard Exorcising >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:43:38 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:44:37 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>But we all know what really happens. Playing pool at 600 mph on >>a jet airplane is no different than playing pool on the ground. >>The balls move around just like they do on the ground and they >>do not shatter. The system of pool table plus balls has been >>speeded up _relative to the ground_, but _within the system_ >>itself, the velocities do not change. On the plane, the pool >>table does not seem to be moving; the balls are not smashing >>into one another at ~600 mph, but at normal billiard ball >>velocities. >>The same is true with a spaceship. Matter will _not_ fall apart >>when the speed of the spaceship _relative to Earth_ exceeds the >>bonding energies of the various molecules therein. >Exactly. And as I also posted and will add to here, the alien >spacecraft has been demonstrated to have a surrounding field >which may be a form of artificial gravity that contains the >occupants in such a way that they (and the airframe of the >craft) do not experience acceleration forces. The UFOs >characteristic behavior of almost instant acceleration, right- >angle turns, even 180-degree turns, stopping on a dime, and all >those aerobatic manuevers that set them apart from convntional >aircraft suggest that not only does the collective molecular >structure not disintegrate, but does not even experience the >stresses that our aircraft experience in flight. Bill, David, Llist: Bill's touched upon something here that's deeply interested me for many years - the apparent obliviousness of many UFOs to gravity and inertia. The 'falling leaf' motion often reported seems to (possibly) indicate a reduction in mass, which might (again possibly) be brought about by artificial gravitational/inertial fields akin to those mentioned by Bill. As Bill says, if the ship was contained within its own artificial gravitation/inertia field, not only would its occupants not have to worry about 'their molecules flying apart' at a certain speed, but they could do such things as instantaneous accelerations and stopping on a dime, right angle and 180 degree turns at high speed, etc. I posted something along the lines we are discussing now to the 'Current Encounters' listserv this past August 22nd. I'll quote it in part below. <snip> It would have been during the mid-1970's that I was reading Beyond Earth: Man's Contact with UFO's by Ralph Blum with Judy Blum. I refer to the contents of the hypnosis regression session conducted by professional hypnotist Loring G. Williams arranged by author Eric Norman and conducted on June 8, 1968 in Des Moines, Iowa. See Condon Report Case 42, February 13, 1968 and two books by Eric Norman entitled Gods, Demons and Space Chariots (New York: Lancer Books 1970) and Gods and Devils from Outer Space (Lancer 1973), as well as the above-mentioned book by the Blums. During the regression session, Williams is asking Schirmer questions after he takes him back to the encounter, and the UFOnaut is allegedly communicating with Schirmer via an antenna- like device on his helmet that causes his voice to be heard in Schirmer's mind. At one point, Williams asks: Williams: How do their craft operate? Schirmer: The ship is operated through reversible electro- magnetism... A crystal-like rotor in the center of the ship is linked to two large columns... He said those were the reactors... Reversing magnetic and electrical energy allows them to control matter and overcome the forces of gravity... <snip> However, way back when I read the Blums' book, that part of the session transcripts (written above) seemed to at least make a bit of sense. To me, "reversible electro-magnetism" and "reversing magnetic and electrical energy" just seemed a fancy way of describing the expanding and collapsing electric and magnetic fields that manifest when alternating current is sent through a coil of wire. The "crystal-like rotor" that was "linked to two large columns" to my mind nicely described a crystal-controlled oscillator circuit linked to antennae (perhaps the columns were nothing more than coils of wire). We use crystals to stabilize an oscillator (transmitter) at a certain frequency and a coil of wire makes a nice antenna for reception/transmission. Such oscillators send out electromagnetic waves at a frequency determined by the crystal. It struck me that simple principles in physics could appy here. Waves of all types propagate through a medium. By superimposing another wave of the exact same frequency over a wave - but 180 degrees out of phase - both waves cancel out each other's effect. If gravitation can be described as 'gravitational waves' and carried by the 'graviton' then it might be subject to this basic wave superimposition principle. If someone knew the frequency of the graviton or gravitational waves and cut a crystal to that frequency, I often wondered what, if any, effect would occur in the space surrounding an antenna connected to an oscillator controlled by such a crystal that was emitting powerfull electromagnetic waves (perhaps amplified by superconductors) and 180 degrees out of phase to the normal gravitational waves present in the region. Might both sets of waves (artificial and natural) continue to exist but produce absolutely no effect on the surrounding space, resulting in a region devoid of gravitation-inertia? I mean, if gravitational waves exist then shouldn't they be subject to this superimposition principle as are all other waves? And if the artificially-created waves were stronger than the natural ones (remember, they'd be based on strong electromagnetic forces whereas gravitation is the weakest of all four forces) might this overcome (not destroy) the normal force of gravitation a craft is subject to, by creating an out-of- phase artificial gravitational-inertial field that would prevent the problems of, say, an occupant's blood 'boiling' as in would in a complete absense of inertia but at the same time balance out regular gravitation (smoothen out curved space-time)? <snip> Might such a craft, no longer bound by the [natural] gravitation of our space-time continuum, be free to move at fanastic speeds in a straight line (not along a geodesic as it is usually forced to do)? <snip> My whole point is that there may be many, many ways to skin the cat when it comes to travelling between the stars (as most people on this list already know). I'm sure there are at least a hundred scientific principles that I'm not thinking of (and zillions more than I'm not aware of) that would interfere with the above idea and keep it from working, although I'm just as equally sure there are just as many ways of getting successfully to this goal, if such is set as the goal. As I said in my post to the other listserv, "seemingly insurmountable problems may not be as complicated as we make them out to be; their solutions may yet be based on very simple principles." Other technologically advanced civilizations (particularly those with a billion or more years head start) could know about and be using these 'simple principles' right
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:15:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:44:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Meier's Contact Reports - Reynolds >From: Brett Holman <bholman.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:58:14 +1000 >Subject: Re: Meier's Contact Reports >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:32:13 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Meier's Contact Reports <snip> >No, it's not my _goal_ to prove [Billy Meier is] a liar, it's >my tentative _conclusion_ that he is. (Though I freely admit >that I suspected as much beforehand.) It was my _goal_ to check >the accuracy of a statement that you made to Kevin Randle (see >below). <snip> >Brett Holman And Brett, this leads me to suggest that we all should be less politically correct when it comes to guys like Meier (Lazar, et al.). Meier is a tramp, one-arm farmer, in the Swiss hinterlands. Why would a supposed advanced alien race from galaxies far, far way pin their hopes or nefarious deeds on the guy? The idea on the face of it is ludicrous. These prescient alien beings continue to select losers for their ultimate mission,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:26:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:47:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds >From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:57:08 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:54:47 -0400 >>Subject: Response To The Space Review >>Source: The Space Review >>http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 >>Monday, September 12, 2005 >>Letter: Response To Seti Politics >>by Seth Shostak >>Mr. Anderson's true agenda is to plead that SETI >>researchers should be accepting of "Little Green Men >>zipping through spacetime in flying saucers." >Seth Shostak must grant that by all accounts, the color of the >most commonly seen aliens (the so-called "greys") ranges from >bone-white to beige. >Why then does he disregard this information and describe aliens >as "green"? Is he not a man who is dedicated to hard data? Why >would such a person substitute simple facts with a culturally >lampooned stereotype? Will: Shostak caters to the media, the public, and his academic peers (saying what they want to hear). He and the SETI crowd ared masters at that. It's propaganda of a non-political kind, used to insure continued funding as I noted ealier here. SETI has turned into a bureaucracy with the primary purpose now,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:56:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:55:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event <snip> >There are two flashes. >The "event time"(the time according to the Shuttle clock which >is encoded into the downlink signal) and the "recorded time" >which is the time it actually was put onto tape (1-3 seconds >later) at the ground. According to the scenelist for STS-102 for >this video segment, the time difference between the two clocks >is 3 seconds (+-1 second). >The "recorded" times follow: >Flash 1 occured at GMT 12:30:40.4 (this caused the movement). >Flash 2 occured at GMT 12:30:41.7 (which did not seem to cause >any course changes but may have accelerated the particles, it >seemed brighter than the first flash). Flash time +-.25 second. >The "event" times must then be: >GMT 12:30:37.4 and 12:30:38.7 >(+-1.25 second). Even with your margin of error, that implies the light flash occurred between 0.7 and 2.7 seconds _before_ the closest RCS firing, which was R5D at 12:30:39.068. That's not as big a difference as with the MCC clock, which indicates the light flash occurred at least 6 seconds before the RCS firing, but
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report - Gonzalez From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:17:58 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:58:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report - Gonzalez >From: Joe Faccenda <uforth.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:44:41 EDT >Subject: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report <snip> >Scotland 1947 >Andrew Cherry was a 22 year old factory worker, employed by >Woods Bottle Works in the Portobello district of Edinburgh. It >was 5.30 on a beautiful summer's morning in July 1947, as Mr >Cherry waited at his usual bus stop close to St John's School in >Baileyfield Road. <snip> Joe,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 AUFORN - UFOESA Lectures - Gold Coast & Sydney 2005 From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:25:19 +1000 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:05:03 -0400 Subject: AUFORN - UFOESA Lectures - Gold Coast & Sydney 2005 Just a reminder!! AUFORN - UFOESA Lectures International Guest Speakers Gold Coast & Sydney Gold Coast Lectures to be held at: Venue: Robina Community Center, Room C Location: Robina Town Center Drive Thursday 29th September 2005 Start time 6.30 p.m - Finish 10.30 p.m 5 minute walk from the Robina Railway station. Link: http://www.robina.com.au/subpages/business/dynPanorama.asp Sydney Lectures to be held at: Venue: Lidcombe Workmen's Cathlic Club Location: 24 John Street 1st Saturday October 2005 Start time 5.30 p.m - Finish 9.30 p.m 5 minute walk from the Libcombe Railway station. Link: http://www.lidcombecatholic.com.au/home_index.html For members & guests Speakers: Freddy Silva - Author Topic - Crop Circles and Sound. http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/Guest-1.html Alfred Lambremont Webre - Author Topic - Exopolitics - Preparing for contact. Link: http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/Guest-2.html Michael Horn - Musician Topic - Billy Meier case, Light ships Alien Contact. Link: http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/Guest-3.html Gold Coast & Sydney Entrance Fee: Cost: $20.00 for the evening. Pensioner discount $15.00 Contacts: Gold Coast: Contact 07 55487205 or 0427164677 Email: auforn.nul or ufologist.nul Sydney: Contact: Peter 0412-649-428 Email: ufoesa.nul For more information re these Lectures and Public meeting visit: http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/Meetings.html Please pass this information on far and wide. Regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:34:41 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:07:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Ledger >From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:15:26 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:46:53 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:13:00 -0400 >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>>Source: The Nation - Bangkok, Thailand >>>http://www.komchadluek.net/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=80968 >>>Sep 09 2005 >>>Villagers Claim ET Sighting ><snip> >Larry, >The date I have from: >www.manager.co.th >for the entity report is August 31, at 6:30 a.m. There are photos of the field and the witnesses on the webpage, as well as a very rough sketch of the entity. The text is all in Thai, however. I will attempt to translate it. >Don Johnson Khon Kaen >Thailand Don,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:00:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:09:08 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled - Maccabee >Source: The Louth Leader - Lincolnshire - UK >http://tinyurl.com/965jv >13-09-05 >UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled >Reports of bright, orange orbs over Louth have left experts >baffled. >The balls of multi-coloured light were seen by residents in St >Bernard's Avenue around 10pm last Sunday. >Two weeks ago three similar sightings off the coast of >Trusthorpe were explained as being made by afterburners from >military aircraft on exercise. >But RAF bosses said this time there had been no fighter jets >around the Louth area at that time last Sunday. For those who are new to the study of UFO reports and for those who simply haven't been paying attention over the years, the "orange ball" UFOs are very common in the literature. This particular case is amusing because the "experiment" (appearance of orange balls) was done twice. The first time the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:01:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:10:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report - Maccabee >From: Joe Faccenda <uforth.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:44:41 EDT >Subject: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report >Hi >I have just joined this List and thought I would introduce >myself. Welcome. SNIP >Scotland 1947 >Andrew Cherry was a 22 year old factory worker, employed by >Woods Bottle Works in the Portobello district of Edinburgh. It >was 5.30 on a beautiful summer's morning in July 1947, as Mr >Cherry waited at his usual bus stop close to St John's School in >Baileyfield Road. >Glancing skywards, he caught sight of a strange object, disc- >shaped with what looked like a large glass dome in the style of >an observation window. The UFO was hovering about 300 feet above >the ground, close enough for Mr Cherry to get a clear view of >its humanoid occupant. >The 'alien' was wearing dark clothes and was sitting or standing >beside a control panel of some kind. He also noted the marked >metal texture of the spacecraft 'like rough diamonds', and the >orange-yellow colour', which he thinks may have been simply a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Waiting For First Contact From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:05:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:05:56 -0400 Subject: Waiting For First Contact Source: The Toronto Sun http://tinyurl.com/9axns Thu, September 15, 2005 Waiting For First Contact Retired school principal and long-time Toronto UFO researcher Victor Viggiani doesn't want to talk about lights in the sky. He's been there, done that, and yes, he believes. He says it's time to shift the debate from the phenomenon of sightings to the geo-political implications of contact with a higher intelligence. "This is the biggest issue in history. There's something major going on. I don't know what it is, but it's happening," said Viggiani, an organizer of a symposium Sept. 25 titled "UFO Disclosure and Planetary Direction" at Convocation Hall. "I call it the giant slap in the face. That's what the psychological implications of this issue will be," he said. Viggiani, who's booked four prominent UFO researchers and former defence minister Paul Hellyer to speak at the conference, believes humans are likely a few billion years behind extraterrestrials on the evolutionary ladder. He also believes that aliens have been visiting Earth, leaving clues of their existence and waiting to share their knowledge with a planet quickly dying. But Viggiani concedes there are major hurdles to getting a fair and scientific hearing on the alien phenomenon.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 02:08:14 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:14:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch >From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:15:26 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:46:53 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>>Source: The Nation - Bangkok, Thailand >>>http://www.komchadluek.net/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=80968 >>>Sep 09 2005 >>>Villagers Claim ET Sighting ><snip> >Larry, >The date I have from: www.manager.co.th for the entity report >is August 31, at 6:30 a.m. There are photos of the field and the >witnesses on the webpage, as well as a very rough sketch of the >entity. >The text is all in Thai, however. I will attempt to >translate it. Hello Don: How could I forget your are there in Thailand? This is great! Some details definitely need to be nailed down. The 'Nation' report, or some similar had events occurring on a Friday morning, I think last Friday the 9th Sept if I have that right. I've already copied a message to the List, with a Yahoo Groups URL indicating this was a balloon in the shape of a little man, one which got loose from some family celebration nearby. Clearly this begs the question how it could circle around in a field for an hour, then rise into a tree, and then zoom upwards into some big 'light' overhead, giving the impression of a UFO. Can we get more on this 'light'? When first seen, how it came, how it went and all that? Any chance of scanning a copy of the sketch(es) of the 'balloon- man'?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 02:27:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:16:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch >From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:26:43 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >Larry et al, >Re. the entity report from Mae Chan district, Chiang Rai >province, Thailand. >To see the sketches and photos (text in Thai), try: >http://www.manager.co.th/Local/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9480000125218 >Good hunting! Hello again Don, Good catch! I could never read the Thai text, even if it showed properly on my screen, which it doesn't. The smiling yellow cartoon-character does indeed look like a festive toy balloon. Question is, is that a rendering from one of the witnesses? Or is that just some toy balloon used to explain the sighting, by people _other_ than the witnesses? Can somebody there clarify that point? The original story that reached the west had a figure with big ears, corroborated by 10 or more original witnesses. I see NO ears on the yellow toy. The crude drawing on the Thai page (URL above), second image from bottom on left-hand side, shows something like strings for ears. Maybe that's the outline of large ears? The general shape is all different too. Notice the size of the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Major Mexican UFO Sighting From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 06:13:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:21:46 -0400 Subject: Major Mexican UFO Sighting INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology September 15, 2005 Source: Prof. Ana Luisa Cid Date: 09.13.05 A major UFO sighting took place in Mexico City only a few minutes after an official event involving Mexican President Vicente Fox had taken place. According to information from Gerardo Martinez Fernandez, a reporter from Grupo Imagen, the executive inagurated the dining room of the "Reino Unido de Gran Bretana" primary school locatd in the Aztec capital's Col. del Valle district. Only a few minutes prior to the first citizen's arrival, many witnesses were able to see a shining spherical object in the sky. An anonimous girl granted an interview to the reporter in question and the young lady explains on audio that the object resembled a very shiny star. Gerardo Martinez stated verbatim: "On Tuesday, September 13 I covered an event involving President Vicente Fox between Calle Parroquia and Av. Coyoac=E1n. We arrived at 9:30 a.m. and managed to film some people directing their attention skyward. Upon getting out of our vehicle, they told us they were watching an unidentified flying object. Personally, I didn't get to see it, but I asked other reporters if they knew anything about this strange event and Jesus Cardenas from Televisa told me that his cameraman had indeed got it on film." It should be noted that Gerardo martinez was the first reporter to make known the February 14, 2000 sighting [The Azcapotzalco CE-II -- editor's note]. securing firsthand interviews with the police officers involved. This distinguished reporter is a key player in Mexican UFO research. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 15 Re: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 03:45:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:28:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report - Hatch >From: Joe Faccenda <uforth.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:44:41 EDT >Subject: Introduction & 1947 Scottish Report <snip> >I live In Scotland which has had several uFO hot spots over the >years, and also some incredible sightings. One of my favourites >is the following report, from 1947, around the same time as the >famous Kenneth Arnold sighting. >What impresses me about the report is not only its factual >content, but the simplicity of a man going about his everyday >occupation, confronted by an alien craft that was totally out of >his comprehension. <snip> >Scotland 1947 >Andrew Cherry was a 22 year old factory worker, employed by >Woods Bottle Works in the Portobello district of Edinburgh. It >was 5.30 on a beautiful summer's morning in July 1947, as Mr >Cherry waited at his usual bus stop close to St John's School in >Baileyfield Road. Hello Joe, and welcome to the List.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 03:52:36 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:10:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Hatch >From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:57:08 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:54:47 -0400 >>Subject: Response To The Space Review >>Source: The Space Review >>http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 >>Monday, September 12, 2005 >>Letter: Response To Seti Politics >>by Seth Shostak >>Mr. Anderson's true agenda is to plead that SETI researchers >>should be accepting of "Little Green Men zipping through >>spacetime in flying saucers." >Seth Shostak must grant that by all accounts, the color of the most commonly seen aliens (the so-called "greys") ranges from bone-white to beige. >Why then does he disregard this information and describe aliens as "green"? Is he not a man who is dedicated to hard data? Why would such a person substitute simple facts with a culturally lampooned stereotype? >Because it is easier to dismiss other peoples if one refuses to >regard them as they truly are. Racists and xenophobes know this. >Shostak knows it too. >I imagine he feels it is okay to use racists' tactics since the >supposed greys, in his opinion, do not exist. Ergo, no actual >racism if the race in question does not exist. But the irony is >the act of refusing to even describe them correctly helps keep >that opinion intact. Hello Will: This is commonly called the 'straw-man' argument. You attribute false statements to your opponent, hopelessly weak ones at that, then knock them down with a puff of air (thus the straw man). Rather than racism, its usually called intellectual dishonesty. Your points are well taken regardless.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:09:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:16:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:40:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review ><snip> >>SETI is a theory in search of data. End of story. ><snip> >>Shostak is a scared and petty fool. >J. Craig: >But Shostak has charm, and panache. That's how he and his >cohorts keep SETI alive (funded). >Ufologists might be wise to emulate him... if the ends justifies >the means as it were. A Jesuit Machiavellian? Is that an oxymoron? Your preceding is a solution searching for a problem isn't it? Gotta break a few eggs - or, compromise some principles - for an omelet sometimes, eh, Mr. Reynolds? What if the eggs were
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Triangular UFO & CE-II Over Puerto Rico From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:38:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:24:21 -0400 Subject: Triangular UFO & CE-II Over Puerto Rico INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology September 15, 2005 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To our Readers - This information has just been recieved from researchers Jose A. Mart=EDnez and Willie Durand Urbina of Puerto Rico's Proyecto ARGUS Source: Proyecto Argus Date: 09.14.05 TRIANGULAR UFO OVER PUERTO RICO -- Proyecto ARGUS Reports The following is a preliminary report of this event in Puerto Rico -- the flight of a large triangular UFO over Puerto Rico. More witnesses to this sighting are coming forward, since there were more people on the avenue when the event took place. We would like any witnesses living in Puerto Rico's Carolina and Urb. Los Angeles districts to please phone us at the following numbers in order to continue our research. At this time only one person has photographed the object, but we are aware that more people saw it, including administrative personnel from the [Luis Munoz Marin International] Airport. Tel.787-821-1671 and 787- 764-3206 Transcript of the Interview by Willie Durand Urbina and Jose A. Martinez Echevarria with the witness to the triangular UFO seen on May 15, 2005 at 12:16 a.m. Willie: Hi Wilfredo, please tell us the experience you had when you left work. Wilfredo: Well, it was one night when I left work at around 12 midnight. I was in the town of Carolina near the Los Angeles development, on an avenue exactly facing the airport and beyond Baldorioty [de Castro Avenue], or exactly behind Baldorioty. Then I saw a glow that came from behind a hill and thought it was strange. Willie: There's a hill there? Wilfredo: That's right, in the rear. That's when I heard the dogs barking, the birds singing and I saw the animals were becoming desperate. I was frightened. What could it be? Then when I looked behind me, I saw a great, very large glow. But I couldn't see the craft because I was inside the van. I pulled the van over and got out -- that's when I saw an immense triangular object. I can't give you the exact measurments, can't describe it in meters, but I can tell you [and compare it] to the size of a ball park or two enormous ball parks. It was going very slowly and passed directly over me. Willie: Was it making any noise in particular? Wilfriedo: None. No sound, just a light coming out of the middle. Willie: Did you feel any heat, atmospheric changes, or temperature [changes] as the object went by? Wilfredo: Yes, it seems that the light emitted some sort of heat, I don't know what kind of heat. It was like a high voltage bulb and you could feel the heat of the light. It made no noise whatsoever and was going slowly, very slowly, and thats when the van's engine and lights went out completely. I got inside, tried to turn the engine over, but nothing. Ahh!! But before getting inside, I took my camera phone and tried to take photos of the object, but I had to remove the fidner to lower the light intensity, because it couldn't be seen in the photos when I took it. I removed the light intensity from the camera and that's how I managed to capture the craft and photograph it. Then I took another photo from inside my vehicle, and that's strange , because nothing electrical worked, yet the cellphone cameraa worked. I do n't know how, but its as if they wanted me to take a picture. "I'm up here, take a picture!" is what I'm thinking. Then I took the shot and it kept moving. The streetlights went out as it flew overhead, flying over the parking lot and away... Willie: Did other cars stop as the UFO flew overhead? Wilfredo: Yes, there were some 3 cars but quite far from where I was. When the UFO went away, my van started up just fine. I even found it strange that the airport was under [the object's path] and its lights also went out. There must be more people there who saw the object too. After passing over the airport it went higher and vanished into the sky at high speed. Willie: Did you see any airplanes at the sighting spot or near it, in the vicinity of the sky? Wilfredo: I didn't see any other airplanes flying over the area. It was also cloudy. In fact [as the object rose] it was possible to see the clouds very well lit by the object as it ascended. It was so immense that the glow continued lighting up more and more clouds. I looked at this and thought "wow!" Willie: And it lit up the area you were at? Wilfredo: Yes, it all looked like noon. It was incredible. Willie: What residential developments were you facing when you took the photo? Wilfredo: Urb. Los Angeles. Willie: Could you give us a point of reference such as shop or other place of business? Wilfredo: No shop or business as a reference -- it's a very large avenue, the one the intercepts Baldorioty and crosses Los Angeles right in the middle of the development. Willie: What's the name of that avenue? Wilfredo: I truly couldn't tell you, but I imagine it has something to do with Urb. Los Angeles Willie: What company was there, at that corner of the section? Wilfredo: None, but its a major avenue that takes you to the heart of the Los Angeles development. There are houses on either side. In fact the bridge on Baldorioty is an overpass that leads to that avenue. Willie: In other words, the event occurred near that overpass? Wilfredo: The event occured at the overpass? Willie: Did your car experience any paint alterations or changes? Wilfredo: The vehicle, well, it was stolen some 3 weeks after the event. No one heard anything. It was an odd robbery -- no one heard anything and my van had a pipe on its muffler that made it heard from far away when the engine was running, but no one heard anything. They took it while I was asleep and no one heard anything. Willie: Your car was stole from your own home? Wilfredo: Yes, from my home. It's odd, but some two weeks after the experience, I began noticing that the paint on the car began to show some little spots. Willie: Were you able to recover the vehicle later? Wilfredo: No, it was stolen not very long ago, about a month and a half following the UFO experience. Then I realized that nothing could remove those spots, as if the spots were coming from within the paint outward. The stains were blood-red or mud colored thta fell on the paint. In desperation, I even applied degreaser to the paint, but nothing worked to remove the spots. It's as if it was burned and it was throughout the entire vehicle. Willie: As far as your health is concerned, did you undergo psychological changes after the experience with the object? Wilfredo: I got sick after the experience. I became ill, don't know if it has anything to do with what I saw. Willie: How long, or how many days went by before you got sick? Wilfredo: Two weeks after the experience. I was bedridden. I'd never been so sick. I'm a very healthy eprson, it's hard for me to get sick and much less bedridden. Willie: What was diagnosis/ Wilfredo: It was like a cold or something. I felt weak. Willie: Did they do any bloodwork to check you corpuscles? Wilfredo: Yes, but everything was all right in the lab tests? Willie: Have you felt well after that cold? Wilfredo: Yes. Willie: It's odd that your vehicle was stolen. Wilfredo: Yes. That happened after I spoke to a female co-worker who [claimed] having been adbucted by aliens. She told me about her experiences and it turns out that two days after she told me, I felt as though I were being watched. There must be some connection between my co-worker's experience and mine. There must be something. Willie: Your car's theft must be related to the event. Did you report the theft? Wilfredo: Yes, I have the report number and everything. It's been two months and still no sign of it. Willie: What color were the craft's lights? Wilfredo; It was only a white light, incandescent, in the middle of the object. Its edges had no observable lights, only that central light that covered the entire object. I could see a sort of metal frame, but the light kept me from seeing what was in the middle. Something metallic could be seen at its tips. Willie: Did it change colors? Wilfredo: No, no! Willie: Any intersting details come to mind? Wilfredo: Of course. When I'm asleep, I feel as though I'm being watched. Willie, it doesn't let me sleep, because I feel myself being watched. It's like a sensation of being spied upon, looked at.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:35:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:26:56 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled - Lehmberg >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:00:56 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled >>Source: The Louth Leader - Lincolnshire - UK >>http://tinyurl.com/965jv >>13-09-05 >>UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled >>Reports of bright, orange orbs over Louth have left experts >>baffled. >>The balls of multi-coloured light were seen by residents in St >>Bernard's Avenue around 10pm last Sunday. >>Two weeks ago three similar sightings off the coast of >>Trusthorpe were explained as being made by afterburners from >>military aircraft on exercise. >>But RAF bosses said this time there had been no fighter jets >>around the Louth area at that time last Sunday. >For those who are new to the study of UFO reports and for those >who simply haven't been paying attention over the years, the >"orange ball" UFOs are very common in the literature. >This particular case is amusing because the "experiment" >(appearance of orange balls) was done twice. The first time the >"establishment" found some"wiggle room" in the jet exhaust >explanation. But the second time... sorry, no jets! "Wiggle room"... right. Where the conflicted avian feels, or tries to appropriate a little 'room' with which to furiously pump their stunted little wings... I'm reminded of the pelicanist's approach of seizing on an invented or purposely misinterpreted 'scrap' with their self- described "big beaks" in an attempt to discredit (even fallaciously) some 'part' in order to discredit the 'whole'. Like worrying at a shred of gym-shorts protruding from a high school locker until you can jerk it out for what we used to call a "locker rupture" back in the 'day'... destroying the shorts and the locker besides... They were perfectly _good_ shorts; it was a _serviceable_ locker... Klasskurtxians, by any other name, must smell as sweet as those self-same gym shorts... >It's okay to look at the sky, but if you see a TRUFO, look away >immediately, because they don't exist! Wow! Let me write that down! "Maccabee reports, plainly, that UFOs do not exist"! See how it works, reader?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Beasley From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:03:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:32:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Beasley >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:59:29 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>Source: The Space Review >>>http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 >>>Monday, September 12, 2005 >>>Letter: Response To Seti Politics >>>by Seth Shostak ><snip> >>Shostak is a scared and petty fool. >Far be it from me to even _appear_ like I'm defending the good >Doctor... Then don't start. >I mean he quotes reactionary Klasskurtxians as >ufological authorities after all, but he is not _entirely_ at >fault. That's a refutation of a point I didn't make. Of course, there are other illogical souls badgering us out there. I'm just talking about one man who can't seem to find his objectivity with both hands. >...some kool-aid drinking suits like Shostak, howsoever well >meaning, are just trying to get their 'program' done is a real >world, as you know. So are a great many of us. Most of us (including myself) can respect what SETI expects of the universe and what they are trying to achieve. Ufology, typically, doesn't frown on SETI. The SETI community, typically, doesn't reciprocate. >He looks like a real ufological Uncle Tom today as a resul, >but he served with a justifiable degree of honor, provided >for himself and his own, and retired. He 'survived.' Betrayed >by family, peers, and system? McDonald was driven to suicide. >Choose between the two. I make the choice easily. Of course, since you're recieving this message, the choice made should be obvious. ;) Are you saying that Shostak, as affiliated with SETI, is in danger of suicide from some ridicule? All opinions of his character notwithstanding, he's not under enough pressure for _that_. >Dr. Shostak is the front man, the lead singer for his band, and >there's a few other people and their effort depending on him to >bring home the foundational bacon. And riducule and distortion of ufology achieves this how, exactly? We don't have, nor compete for, his "bacon". Or advertising. Or marketing. But, the fact that he apparently agrees with you on this shows his paranoia and fear - He's scared of something that is no threat and intends no threat. If his science in SETI is tinged with that, SETI risks FAR more marginalization that his current fears suggest. >Too bad. He must compete >for already inadequate dollars in a profoundly underfunded >ghetto of ufological imperatives... Competing, how? If there is a source of funding that Ufology is denying Shostak and SETI, I want a piece! >Broad-brushed, but can you dig what I'm saying? I really don't think so, no. <snip> >It's the system, a system punishing positive ufological >'behavior' while rewarding its game-playing antithesis. Do away >with a hostile, sullen, corrupt, jealous, cowardly, insentient, >untested faith-based, and actually non-scientific system? We'll >see some progress. Buddy, now _there_ I agree with you. For my own limited time, and the steps I am starting to make in embracing Ufology as a "second career", I have no time for scared men such as Shostak. Stepping on Ufology is not going to help SETI move forward. I mean, if that's what they apparently think, why don't they put a disclaimer in all SETI-based research in search of a sugardaddy: "We know this looks _really_ crazy, but hey, at least it's not Ufology." That will not secure them funding. I understand the impulse to see the other side of Shostak, it's
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Beasley From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:09:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:33:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Beasley >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:40:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review ><snip> >>SETI is a theory in search of data. End of story. ><snip> >>Shostak is a scared and petty fool. >J. Craig: >But Shostak has charm, and panache. That's how he and his >cohorts keep SETI alive (funded). He comes across like a carnival barker for a freak show. >Ufologists might be wise to emulate him... if the ends justifies >the means as it were.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Hundreds Of Canadians Report Seeing Objects From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:19:33 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:49:45 -0400 Subject: Hundreds Of Canadians Report Seeing Objects List, My comment off the top. The reporters of other articles I have seen posted here lately about UFOs should note the professional mamnner in which the following piece is written. It does not show bias from the opening line and is objective. Don Ledger ----- Source: The Toronto Sun http://tinyurl.com/ao4dj> Date: 09/15/2005 Lights In The Sky Though Dismissed By Skeptics, Hundreds Of Canadians Report Seeing Unexplained Objects Source: The Toronto Sun Section: News Page: 8 Byline: Brodie Fenlon, Toronto Sun The truth is out there - and it may be as close as your own backyard. Two months ago, on July 14 at 11:45 p.m., Nova Williams was sitting with her dog on the backyard patio of her family's Scarborough home when she saw a shooting star flash past her head. Only it wasn't a shooting star. Williams said she took a closer look and described what she saw as a glowing object shaped like "a boomerang upside down" zooming east to west over Kingston Rd. at about the same altitude as would fly a small single-engine aircraft. But unlike a Cessna, this object made no sound. Williams, 35, said it sped up and slowed down in one fluid motion, then stopped suddenly and hovered. Moments later, it moved south - without turning - toward Lake Ontario, then returned and flew out of sight, she said. "There was no engine sound. It was an eerie quiet," said Williams, who quickly sketched what she saw on a computer paint program. "I thought it was kind of neat. It didn't frighten me because I had seen something like it before." --- Every year, in every corner of this country, hundreds of Canadians like Williams are seeing and reporting mysterious objects in the night sky. Glowing orange orbs. Delta-shaped wings. Silent cigar-shaped craft. Saucers and balls of coloured lights that hover, then move too quickly - and in too many directions - to be conventional aircraft, they claim. Even the fiercest of cynics would be hard-pressed to dismiss some of the UFO reports filed since 2000 with a variety of federal agencies and obtained by the Sun. They include bizarre sightings by RCMP officers, air traffic controllers and dozens of military and commercial pilots - even the pilot of an aircraft carrying the prime minister during a flight over Alberta in March 2004. Officially, Transport Canada and the department of national defence say they have no interest in UFO sightings, which they pass on to Chris Rutkowski, a lone astronomer and volunteer in Winnipeg who receives one or two reports a day. Hundreds more are reported independently to the National UFO Reporting Center (NUFORC), a Seattle-based organization that receives, records and attempts to corroborate eyewitness accounts. Others are sent to Canadian UFO researcher Brian Vike of HBCC UFO Research, which has a comprehensive website that includes photos, video footage, audio interviews of witnesses and a breakdown of reports by province. It's a global phenomenon that, according to these reports, has repeatedly touched our own backyards. In the last three months, more than 40 UFOs have been spotted in Ontario, including: - Whitby, Aug. 12: A bright white shape like a "teardrop" raced up into the sky at 1 a.m. - Vaughan, July 13: An orange disc, its light fading in and out, hovering over the IKEA store on Hwy. 7. - St. Catharines, July 5: Five friends camping in a park near the city claim they saw six saucer-like objects at 2 a.m. One of the objects reportedly dropped to within three metres of the ground and "emitted four pulses" of blinding light. The anonymous witness who reported the incident to NUFORC noted, "Three of my four friends made it clear that they never wanted to speak of the event again." - Toronto, July 3: A V-shaped formation of more than 20 glowing oval objects flying over an apartment building at 919 Dufferin St. Rutkowski, who describes himself as an "open-minded skeptic," said the majority of UFO sightings he receives can be explained away as satellites, aircraft or helicopters, the international space station, search lights, astronomical anomalies like meteorites and meteorological phenomenon such as ball lightning. For instance, a "very bright light falling from (the) sky" reported by the pilot of the PM's aircraft and a number of other airliners in March 2004 was likely a meteorite. But each year, there are a "handful to two dozen" well-documented sightings in Canada that simply can't be explained, Rutkowski said, noting he's never seen a UFO himself. Science, he added, has a done itself a great disservice by ignoring a phenomenon that thousands of people around the world claim they have witnessed. "If it's not a physical phenomenon, it's at the very least a social or psychological phenomenon and it should be investigated by science," Rutkowski said. "It's very good to approach this with an open mind, as long as it's not so open your brain falls out." Some of the most compelling reports obtained by the Sun were filed by people whose jobs entail sober thought and rational observation skills, such as pilots and police officers: - The pilot of a Cessna Citation 560 twin-engine executive jet reported a "very large stationary metallic object beside the moon at a very high altitude" to air traffic control in Toronto on April 28, 2003. Several other pilots reported the same object, as the report notes: "(Aircraft) reporting was flying between Buffalo, N.Y., and London, Ont., and saw it for 30 min, and was flying at an altitude of 43,000, said (sic) the object was much higher. The shift supervisor at Toronto airport telephoned this in; he also said that several other (aircraft) reported same UFO." - The pilot of Air Canada Flight 1185 flying over Saskatchewan in December 2001 reported a UFO to air traffic control in Winnipeg. The report, which was submitted to the Canadian Air Defence Sector, noted: "The (aircraft) pilot observed strobes and flashing lights which he estimated to be (7,600-9,000 metres) above him ... The co-pilot of the (aircraft) flight observed same. Pilot noted that it did not look like a satellite." - An officer with the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary watched for about an hour and a half as two white objects moved north to south over Seal Cove in the Conception Bay area of the province on Aug. 3, 2001. - On Sept. 8, 2004, the pilot of an Air Canada flight from Vancouver to Saskatoon reported a UFO "heading south at high speed - passed directly overhead." But, even the best-trained eyes can be fooled. Cpl. Ed Anderson and then-Const. Jeff Johnston were based at the RCMP Pangnirtung detachment in Nunavut on Jan. 9, 2001, when they were called by a resident to check out a red light hovering in the sky over the remote northern hamlet on Cumberland Sound. Armed with cameras and binoculars, the officers watched the mysterious object for more than 20 minutes. In their separate incident reports, the officers described a stationary object that faded in and out "almost as though it was slowly rotating in the sky." After about 10 or 15 minutes, the light lowered until it was hovering above the ice, its light reflected in the snow. "It appeared to be like a cylinder-type shape. The light then disappeared and was not seen again," Johnston noted in his report. "At this point, writer has no idea what the object was... It was definitely a strange occurrence and at this time remains unexplained and unidentified." Reached by the Sun in Moncton, Johnston said he and his partner reported their observations to several agencies, including Norad. They were told the object was likely a satellite that appeared odd because they were positioned so far north. The officers were satisfied with the explanation several nights later when they saw the same object in the same location. --- But for others, like Nova Williams, there is no earthly explanation for what they see in the heavens. An airshow enthusiast, a former volunteer auxiliary officer with Toronto Police, and until recently, an employee of a provincial professional association, Williams said she is certain that what she saw is not from this world. The Scarborough woman's July encounter was not her first: In the early 1980s, when she was 12 or 13, she and her father were stargazing in the same backyard when they saw three similar objects flying in a V formation, she said. Several times throughout that week, Williams said her family saw "tonnes of disc-shaped objects darting in and out of each other without losing speed" in the sky over their house. Her aunt was "terrified" and has refused to speak of it since, she said. Another unexplained encounter involved a bright beam of light from the sky that filled the family's living room about six years ago while she and her mother were watching late-night TV. As strange as it all sounds, Williams is not afraid to speak out about her experiences. But when she recently asked her neighbours if they had seen the same objects, she was met with an awkward silence before they changed the subject. "I think people are very narrow-minded," she said. "If they start thinking about it, it frightens them. So they don't think about it at all." [ILLUSTRATION] 1. photo by Craig Robertson -- Long-time Toronto UFO researcher Victor Viggiani says it's time to move past debating whether UFOs are real or not - he believes they are - and move on to discussing the geo-political implications of human contact with beings of higher intelligence. 2. photo -- Scarborough resident Nova WIlliams created this computer sketch of a glowing object shaped like a "boomerang
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Aliens Waiting To Help Us? From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:03:17 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:17:15 -0400 Subject: Aliens Waiting To Help Us? Read an article in the Toronto Sun claiming that Victor Viggiani "believes that aliens are... waiting to share their knowledge with a planet quickly dying." Tell me it ain't so Victor! Surely they misquoted or misunderstood you! If they got you right, then what are you basing this opinion on? Surely not the old contactee stories! What are They "waiting" for? Why haven't they opened diplomatic relations? Haven't we enough exopolitics types around to handle this kind of activity? How is the Earth "dying" "quickly"? Do you mean global warming? That will take a while. And even if it was occurring, would aliens want to interfere with the planet's own natural ecosystem which could handle the problem (although it might be messy)? And if they didn't care about such interference, what's keeping them from just going out and fixing it thermselves (like a secret Boy Scout), converting the excess CO2 using their whizbang alien tech?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Secrecy News -- 09/15/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:26:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:19:26 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/15/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 88 September 15, 2005 ** CRS VIEWS CONVENTIONAL WARHEADS FOR ICBMS ** POPPY SATELLITE PROGRAM DECLASSIFIED ** SOME MORE CRS REPORTS CRS VIEWS CONVENTIONAL WARHEADS FOR ICBMS A new report from the Congressional Research Service examines the possibility of replacing the nuclear warheads on U.S. long range ballistic missiles with conventional warheads, and sorts through the implications of such a move. >From the warfighter's perspective, the availability of conventionally-armed long-range ballistic missiles would mean increased flexibility and would permit prompt global offensive reach. Critics worry that any use of such a missile would lend itself to misinterpretation as a nuclear strike and thereby lower the threshold for nuclear war. Others suggest that conversion of long-range missiles to conventional warheads would facilitate sharp reductions in nuclear weapons stockpiles, if there were a will to pursue such reductions. The U.S. currently has an estimated 4,868 nuclear warheads on 982 land-based intercontinental ballistic missiles and submarine- launched ballistic missiles. The U.S. nuclear weapons targeting plan that was formerly known as the SIOP (Single Integrated Operational Plan) is now designated OPLAN 8044, the CRS report notes, and "it reflects changes in U.S. targeting plans and priorities that resulted from the Bush Administration's nuclear posture review." A copy of the new CRS report was obtained by Secrecy News. See "Conventional Warheads For Long-Range Ballistic Missiles: Background and Issues for Congress," September 6, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL33067.pdf POPPY SATELLITE PROGRAM DECLASSIFIED Information about the POPPY intelligence satellite program, which operated from 1962 to 1971, was declassified this week. "POPPY was the successor to the nation's first ELINT [electronic intelligence] satellite, known as 'GRAB' (Galactic Radiation and Background)," according to a September 12 press release from the National Reconnaissance Office. "The POPPY system was designed to detect land based radar emitters and support ocean surveillance." The newly declassified information is summarized in a POPPY Program Fact Sheet, dated September 12, 2005, and available here: http://www.fas.org/irp/nro/poppy.pdf SOME MORE CRS REPORTS Some recent reports of the Congressional Research Service obtained by Secrecy News include the following: "Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Hurricane Katrina Relief," September 7, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS22239.pdf "An Emergency Communications Safety Net: Integrating 911 and Other Services," September 1, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL32939.pdf "Agricultural Disaster Assistance," updated August 29, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RS21212.pdf "V-22 Osprey Tilt-Rotor Aircraft," updated August 4, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL31384.pdf "Defense Outsourcing: The OMB Circular A-76 Policy," updated June 30, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL30392.pdf "Federal Flood Insurance: The Repetitive Loss Problem," June 30, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32972.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 SETI Redux De Lux From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:26:18 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:27:32 -0400 Subject: SETI Redux De Lux List, I've been re-thinking my attitide towards SETI recently and wonder if it's time for a revision. Me'thinks it might be. We knock Uncle Seth because he won't acknowledge the evidence that we profer and as far as he is concerned, there has been absolutely no proof of ET visitation here on Earth. Why do we blindly criticise him for that? How inane are we? Turkeys are not usually in the habit of voting for Christmas and any such philosophical wobbling on Seth's part will possibly compromise Paul Allen's funding. You might well accuse him of scientific dishonesty but even if that were true, he wouldn't be alone. And he has a point; namely we can't produce the absolute proof he asks for. We can show him a very strong possibility but we can't show him absolute proof. Did you, btw, catch 'that word' in the above paragraph? "Scientific". There, I've said it. We drone on and on about how science ignores us and there are plenty of folk on this List who will retire happily to their graves in the knowledge that science has at last turned its head in our direction, except that it has with SETI and still we moan. Maybe it's the wrong sort of science? Maybe we're only interested in science that agrees with us before any investigation has begun? It might also be worth reminding the List, because it's easy to forget, that Seth and his colleagues are trying to do exactly what we are trying to do. We have the same aims! Ergo it naturally follows, as in any scientific discipline, that we should therefore be at each others throats. We could just try growing up a bit. Give Uncle Seth a cyber slap on the back and wish him well next time you see him on the box instead of the usual booing and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:46:20 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:29:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:34:41 -0300 >Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:15:26 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:46:53 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>>>Source: The Nation - Bangkok, Thailand >>>>http://www.komchadluek.net/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=80968 >>>>Sep 09 2005 >>>>Villagers Claim ET Sighting >><snip> >>Larry, >>The date I have from: >>www.manager.co.th >>for the entity report is August 31, at 6:30 a.m. There are >>photos of the field and the witnesses on the webpage, as well as >>a very rough sketch of the entity. The text is all in Thai, >>however. I will attempt to translate it. >Don, >I just had a look. I can't resist. I taut I taw a puddy tat. >Don - - - - Yup! My impression too Don.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:16:43 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:07 -0700 >Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:40:09 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>Yesterday in my answer to David, I made the following comment: >>"Here's the problem as I see it: Water molecules which make up >>95% of all life, break their chemical bonds at just a little >>above .02 of the speed of light, or 5100 miles per second. Isn't >>that a little slow for star travel?" See: >>http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x23.htm >>There's a mistake I'd like to correct. >In my estimation this is not a problem. After making a study >of UFO dynamics it is plain to me that the occupants do not >experience the forces of acceleration nor is their relative >speed contained within the field of the craft anywhere near .02 >of the speed of light. Hi Bill, I agree with you completely about this. The occupants of UFO don't seem to experience the forces of acceleration. >The earth moving with the sun has a velocity in its orbit around >the galaxy. The Sun's circular velocity around the center of the >Milky Way galaxy is measured to be vc = 220 km/s at its radius >of R = 8 kpc. Our galaxy, and the Local Group of galaxies of >which we are part, has been shown to be moving toward the Great >Attractor with a peculiar velocity of 570 km/s (measured against >the Cosmic Microwave Background). Lets see, for 220 km/s that >would be 220,000 meters/sec. Yes and I understand. I admit my interpretation of the formula was totally incorrect. In fact I was about as wrong as I could get, and I apologize for even bringing it up. >Our water molecules must be flying apart! Why don't they? >Because we are coupled in our velocity and acceleration (in >orbit) to the earth's gravity field. Our spaceship occupants >have a similar coupling to their ship's field and do not >experience the velocity of the craft relative to the galaxy even >.8c. You are correct but my main thought was that at some point as molecules accelerate toward the speed of light, they and then the atoms they're constructed from, will lose their identity. I don't know how fast that is. I suggested that the formula might give us a clue as to what that speed might be. I was mistaken. But no amount of muddled thinking on my part, nor my heartfelt contrition will change the following - as far as we know: "To accelerate any mass at all to the speed of light - even a single electron never mind a spaceship - would take literally infinite energy because as you push it closer to the limit its own mass becomes ever greater until at light speed you'd be trying to push an infinite mass. This comes out of the Lorentz transformations of Special Relativity." (Quote from a List member off line) With this limitation in mind, I find it hard to understand why folks won't even consider that we might share our solar system with at least one other civilization and also consider that the creature in the alien autopsy might be one of the critters who
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Maelstrom's Prophecy From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:27:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:19:06 -0400 Subject: Maelstrom's Prophecy EBK, List, Below you'll find an excerpt from a letter sent to the Pentagon by Michael Maelstrom and cross-posted along related Fido and Internet forums during the week of March 18, 1996. For the full text, go to: http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/roswell.htm Seems the Redfern plotline has been around many moons. Has this been mentioned on the List before? William Sawers sent me a copy and that's the first I've heard of this prophecy. Ed ----- "Between 1994 and 1996, the Pentagon scanner-boys have been amassing public opinions on the Roswell case, with one goal in mind: to discover precisely which story todays generation will most-likely be willing to accept concerning Roswell. The data has been accumulated and the conclusion is that most people will accept a combination of the following factors: 1. High ranking U.S official covering up shady activities involving: a. inhumane experiments b. nuclear related c. sales of illegal weaponry d. incompetent/dangerous use of highly volatile material The story given above is a variation on the sort of story the U.S will try to release to the public in order to convince us all once and for all, the Roswell case was not an UFO. The truth is, it was.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 'The Flying Saucers Are Real' OnLine From: William Sawers <ufsyntax.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:50:49 +1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:21:51 -0400 Subject: 'The Flying Saucers Are Real' OnLine Hi All, I thought there may be a few on the List interested in the Donald Kehoe book from 1950, "The Flying Saucers Are Real" The site below has the full book for free d/l. http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/fsar/index.htm There are also many different Fidonet and Paranet files virtually pre-dating the Internet as we know it, when we had to log onto BBS for info. Well we did in Australasia anyway. Some of these files and books show the evolution of the subject
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Thai Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Johnson From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:24:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Thai Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Johnson >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 02:08:14 -0700 >Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:15:26 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 04:46:53 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>>>Source: The Nation - Bangkok, Thailand >>>>http://www.komchadluek.net/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=80968 >>>>Sep 09 2005 >>>>Villagers Claim ET Sighting >><snip> >>Larry, >>The date I have from: www.manager.co.th for the entity report >>is August 31, at 6:30 a.m. There are photos of the field and the >>witnesses on the webpage, as well as a very rough sketch of the >>entity. >>The text is all in Thai, however. I will attempt to >>translate it. >Hello Don: >How could I forget your are there in Thailand? >This is great! Some details definitely need to be nailed down. >The 'Nation' report, or some similar had events occurring on a >Friday morning, I think last Friday the 9th Sept if I have that >right. >I've already copied a message to the List, with a Yahoo Groups >URL indicating this was a balloon in the shape of a little man, >one which got loose from some family celebration nearby. >Clearly this begs the question how it could circle around in a >field for an hour, then rise into a tree, and then zoom upwards >into some big 'light' overhead, giving the impression of a UFO. >Can we get more on this 'light'? When first seen, how it came, >how it went and all that? >Any chance of scanning a copy of the sketch(es) of the 'balloon- >man'? >Lots of tough questions I know. Any help much appreciated! Larry et al, There are several articles (in Thai, on www.manager.co.th) about this and another earlier entity report which I believe occurred in Lop Buri (not sure about that). The earlier report has a photo of a short creature, half hiding behind a rock. The image of the entity is blurred gray but it bares a resemblance to the goblin character in the second Harry Potter movie, so I suspect it might be a fake. As for Mae Chan, I will ask some of my Thai students to complete the translation for me of the article I sent you from www.manager.co.th According to my first reading there were over 100 witnesses, so I wouldn't be too quick to assume the balloon explanation is correct. Mae Chan is definitely a real place, I have been there several times (when I lived in Chiang Rai). There is a restaurant there that has excellent Chinese soup! I may make a trip to Chiang Rai province in October and try to talk to witnesses (no promises). There is also a Dr. Therapon Muangman at Mahidol University in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:58:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:42:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:09:34 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:40:42 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >><snip> >>>SETI is a theory in search of data. End of story. >Means _quality_ ends, Sir. Is that what I wrote? I mis-wrote... "qualify". Means _qualify_ ends. Still, "quality" gets there in a stretch, be not proud. It remains that ends justified means is a slippery slope, along the lines of a permanence to the Patriot act, dictatorship replacing due process, or trashing the US Constitution for a short term pecuniary gain. There are prices to be paid on many levels. Heads will roll... Consider the utility of hoaxing UFO activities in order to teach people lessons regarding their gullibility - are there other prices to be paid, other lessons learned? This just in, Bush awards mortuary contract to a firm with a history of feeding discarded corpses to feral hogs. That'll keep the old eyes on the ground, eh truthseeker? Are we in an Anthony Hopkins movie, or what?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:36:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:45:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg >From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:03:41 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:59:29 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>>Source: The Space Review >>>>http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 >>>>Monday, September 12, 2005 >>>>Letter: Response To Seti Politics >>>>by Seth Shostak >><snip> >>>Shostak is a scared and petty fool. >>Far be it from me to even _appear_ like I'm defending the good >>Doctor... >Then don't start. You're right - what was I thinking! Next, I'll be qualifying PK as a leader, teacher, and holder of the guiding light. >I understand the impulse to see the other side of Shostak, it's >a gentle, human thing to do. But in the interest of logical >pursuits of both SETI and Ufology, there is no room for coddling. I defer to clearer and more objective thinking on the matter, Sir. Of course. But don't worry. It's not like we're going steady or anything. <g> My whole point was that there is an underlying impetis qualifying the behavior of a Carl Sagan or a Seth Shostak (both reasonablely good guys I presume) pushing their cream to the 'top' so to speak - forgetting that SETI should not excoriate ufology for the same reasons that ufology is _not_ excoriating SETI. These are reasons _beyond_ simple pot-calling-kettle- black-issues and the huge disparity of real evidence between the two camps. SETI, at worst, should keep its mouth shut on the issue, and doesn't. This alone justifies your condemnation, and mine, Sir. I concede your point without a thought to how easy it is to do so. Right _is_ right. We have no argument, Mr. Beasley.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:29:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:47:53 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Lehmberg >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:26:18 +0100 (BST) >Subject: SETI Redux De Lux >I've been re-thinking my attitide towards SETI recently and >wonder if it's time for a revision. Me'thinks it might be. >We knock Uncle Seth because he won't acknowledge the evidence >that we profer and as far as he is concerned, there has been >absolutely no proof of ET visitation here on Earth. Why do we >blindly criticise him for that? How inane are we? Turkeys are not >usually in the habit of voting for Christmas and any such >philosophical wobbling on Seth's part will possibly compromise >Paul Allen's funding. You might well accuse him of scientific >dishonesty but even if that were true, he wouldn't be alone. And >he has a point; namely we can't produce the absolute proof he >asks for. We can show him a very strong possibility but we can't >show him absolute proof. No - he has the bully mainstream pulpit in the weaker evidentiary position and he uses it to discount the stronger, braver, more expansive, and finally, _richer_ evidentiary position. Please pardon the hyperbole, but may the vermin of a thousand camels infest his scrotal area. >Did you, btw, catch 'that word' in the above paragraph? >"Scientific". There, I've said it. We drone on and on about how >science ignores us and there are plenty of folk on this List who >will retire happily to their graves in the knowledge that science >has at last turned its head in our direction, except that it has >with SETI and still we moan. Maybe it's the wrong sort of >science? Maybe we're only interested in science that agrees with >us before any investigation has begun? Mainstream science is not remotely scientific with regard to UFO. This is pointed out by many respected names past and present. Moreover, few bemoan SETI *success* such as it is. It's the pandering after and celebration of the attentions of a gutless, convenient, complacent, and corporate system chapping folks nether regions, I suspect. The front man's going to be the front man for everything good and bad. Look at the idiot prince GWB. >It might also be worth reminding the List, because it's easy to >forget, that Seth and his colleagues are trying to do exactly >what we are trying to do. We have the same aims! Ergo it >naturally follows, as in any scientific discipline, that we >should therefore be at each others throats. Then tell him to put his hands down, knock off the big arm movements, or quit facilitating his senseless (_if_ 'believable') ufological derision. Has he ever read Richard Hall, Jerry Clark, or Peter Sturrock? I suspect not. We know he's read his Kal Korff... Moreover, bully pulpit or no, his is the weaker dog in the fight. Maybe he shouldn't arbitrarily run with the big evidentiary dogs. >We could just try growing up a bit. Or calling a spade a spade and giving as good as we get. Outrage is not _necessarily_ immaturity, _me_'thinks. >Give Uncle Seth a cyber slap on the back and wish him well next >time you see him on the box instead of the usual booing and >hissing, and tell him to get the job done quickly. Who cares >which way we find out, as long we eventually do. Well - considering his behavior, shtick, and track-record he's easy to boo and hiss at. Maybe he could try to be less boo- hissable. Concept disapproved at this station - resubmit in 30-days for final disapproval. <g>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:45:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:50:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:09:34 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:40:42 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >><snip> >>>SETI is a theory in search of data. End of story. >><snip> >>>Shostak is a scared and petty fool. >>J. Craig: >>But Shostak has charm, and panache. That's how he and his >>cohorts keep SETI alive (funded). >>Ufologists might be wise to emulate him... if the ends justifies >>the means as it were. >A Jesuit Machiavellian? Is that an oxymoron? >Your preceding is a solution searching for a problem isn't it? >Gotta break a few eggs - or, compromise some principles - for >an omelet sometimes, eh, Mr. Reynolds? What if the eggs were >about to hatch? Means _quality_ ends, Sir. My dear Alfred: Ufologists are so righteous (see Paul Kimball's attack on Frank Warren at various UFO blogs) that they scare away those who less inclined to be incendiary. Keyhoe was like that, bless him. The Shostaks of the world use charm and guile to woo their patrons - monied or powerful. It works. Machiavelli was spot on (as are my Jesuit bethren). Ufologists might try a bit of sugar now and then to entrap their prey, and then let them have it with the truth, the real truth of things.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:09:13 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:55:41 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Friedman >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:26:18 +0100 (BST) >Subject: SETI Redux De Lux >I've been re-thinking my attitide towards SETI recently and >wonder if it's time for a revision. Me'thinks it might be. <snip> >It might also be worth reminding the List, because it's easy to >forget, that Seth and his colleagues are trying to do exactly >what we are trying to do. We have the same aims! Ergo it >naturally follows, as in any scientific discipline, that we >should therefore be at each others throats. >We could just try growing up a bit. >Give Uncle Seth a cyber slap on the back and wish him well next >time you see him on the box instead of the usual booing and >hissing, and tell him to get the job done quickly. Who cares >which way we find out, as long we eventually do. Sorry but Seth has been unscientific and dishonest in many ways. I have listened to three of his lectures on the QE 2,(he was present for 2 of mine but one could never tell that) read a couple of his books debated with him on Coast to Coast for three hours. We do not have the same goals. He wants to pick up radio signals. I am concerned with intelligent life that is coming here. He says the evidence isn't strong enough. He has not examined any of the evidence to which I referred in lectures he heard. It is totally dishonest to talk about our fastest satellite taking 70 thousand years to get to the nearest star. It has no propulsion system on it and is coasting. Would throwing a bottle in the ocean tell you how long it takes to get across the ocean? Would tossing a feather in the air tell one how long it takes to fly around the earth? Perhaps we should use the speed of our fastest bicycle to tell us how long it takes to go from Boston to LA. He knows nothing about advanced nuclear propulsion systems, even the ones that have been ground tested. The SETI cultists assume there is no interstellar travel by anyone ever. This means any source of radio signals is where it has always been rather than a colony of an older civilization. He assumes that with a mere 100 years of technology behind us that we could use the right technology to pick up a signal from somebody who might be a million years or more older than us. This isn't science. It is wishful thinking. Terms like absolute proof don't belong in this discussion. He has provided not even a whit of evidence - no less proof - that anybody is out there sending signals that we can detect. We have a great deal of evidence that intelligent life is visiting the planet even if they don't check in with SETI. The emperor has no clothes. Check out my challenge to SETI Specialists at my website:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:23:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:57:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds >From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:09:20 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:40:42 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review <snip> >>...Shostak has charm, and panache. That's how he and his >>cohorts keep SETI alive (funded). >He comes across like a carnival barker for a freak show. >>Ufologists might be wise to emulate him... if the ends justifies >>the means as it were. >Aye, there's the rub. The ends do _not_ justify the means, but the >consequences of thinking otherwise usually catches up with those >who believe so. Ah, that's not quite true J. Craig. There are a plethroa of examples where misused means brought about ends and the perpetrator was not punished (in this life): Pontius Pilate, Idi Amin, Stalin, Ted Kennedy, Martha Stewart, Phil Klass...need I go on? The great Machiavelli had it right. And Shostak's ilk use whatever is at their disposal to ensure their way of life.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: 'The Flying Saucers Are Real' OnLine - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:40:02 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:58:47 -0400 Subject: Re: 'The Flying Saucers Are Real' OnLine - Hall >From: William Sawers <ufsyntax.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:50:49 +1000 >Subject: 'The Flying Saucers Are Real' OnLine >Hi All, >I thought there may be a few on the List interested in the >Donald Kehoe book from 1950, "The Flying Saucers Are Real" >The site below has the full book for free d/l. >http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/fsar/index.htm <snip> Maj. Keyhoe'e Flying Saucers Are Real, Capt. Edward Ruppelt's The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, and lots of other excellent original material is (are) available on Francis Ridge's NICAP web site:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 The Global UFO Cover-Up From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:59:19 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:19:02 -0400 Subject: The Global UFO Cover-Up I have no qualms about admitting if I've been wrong, or have made a mistake. That's the first step to doing things the right way. I've often puzzled and posted as to how in the world every country on Earth could successfully hide all the UFO data. How every country on Earth could easily have a crack squad of commandos and disinformationalists at the ready whenever a UFO event occurs. "There's no way in heck", I'd go on, "you can tell me that every leader, head of state etc. could keep things under their hat!" Well, the math says differently, plus a nudge from a friend of mine, quite noted for his worldly expertise. The U.N. and the U.S. recognize roughly about 190-193 countries in the world. Some fluctuate as leaderships and regimes and governments change hands, crumble or just get taken over. That's a small number of bodies to reach and bribe and intimidate. Granted most of the countries on the list have about as much power and influence as the local pinochle club down the street, but they do have some semblance of a leadership even if all it is, is some guy in a garish outfit with some ridiculous title like 'overlord president emperor for life'. Easy pickings to pay these guys off, and for the 5 or so power players, it would not be in their best interest to spill the beans, as their only control mechanism is to make us afraid of each other so we won't get together and move in next door to one another. Can't have 'them' people dating our daughters! After reflecting upon the attempt and control of covering up the best UFO data, I had to admit it wouldn't be that difficult as all you'ld need are three things: 1. Money 2. A display of the downfall of nationalism. 3. Lotsa guns and henchmen & hookers. We ain't run out of any of the above three. Some countries are so low brow all you need to bribe them are tickets to Vegas and a strip show. Other countries you've got to do some bartering about trade and some you just have to grease someone's palm. Worse, you have to find a husband for some big-shot's ugly daughter. Photos, files, wreckage, artifacts? Easily procured and controlled. Since it doesn't happen every day it's easy to see how a team can be dispatched and monies dispersed, threats levied and bargains made. It's the ancient crash artifacts that are the fly in this ointment. Granted not all the evidence gets bogarted :) Thanks to the courageous investigators, researchers and witnesses, whistleblowers and government folk who uphold their oaths, we've got overwhelming evidence of several UFO sources. Every day the possibility that some solid bit of data or artifact may slip through the shroud keeps us on our toes. When we put the shoe on the other foot, how long will it be before we have enough resources to counter the bribes and intimidation? I guess that's the difference, we don't play dirty.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Beasley From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:08:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:21:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Beasley >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:36:18 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:03:41 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:59:29 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>>From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>>>Source: The Space Review >>>>>http://www.thespacereview.com/article/448/1 >>>>>Monday, September 12, 2005 >>>>>Letter: Response To Seti Politics >>>>>by Seth Shostak >>><snip> >>>>Shostak is a scared and petty fool. >>>Far be it from me to even _appear_ like I'm defending the good >>>Doctor... >>Then don't start. >You're right - what was I thinking! Next, I'll be qualifying >PK as a leader, teacher, and holder of the guiding light. <LOL> For my part, excuse my attitude on that. I issue venom meant for Shostak upon you. I still don't want him defended, but I don't mean to be rude, either. >>I understand the impulse to see the other side of Shostak, it's >>a gentle, human thing to do. But in the interest of logical >>pursuits of both SETI and Ufology, there is no room for coddling. >I defer to clearer and more objective thinking on the matter, >Sir. Of course. But don't worry. It's not like we're going >steady or anything. <g> That would require modifications of reality too extreme to contemplate. Moving on... ;) >My whole point was that there is an underlying impetis >qualifying the behavior of a Carl Sagan or a Seth Shostak (both >reasonablely good guys I presume) pushing their cream to the >'top' so to speak - forgetting that SETI should not excoriate >ufology for the same reasons that ufology is _not_ excoriating >SETI. These are reasons _beyond_ simple pot-calling-kettle- >black-issues and the huge disparity of real evidence between the >two camps. SETI, at worst, should keep its mouth shut on the >issue, and doesn't. This alone justifies your condemnation, and >mine, Sir. A good view of thing, IMHO. As a side note, I have a greater respect by far for Sagan, if only for the fact (in my estimation) that Sagan was an order of magnitude more intelligent than Shostak. I will be eternally disappointed, though, at Sagan's own progressive turn from logic as Ufology was concerned. >I concede your point without a thought to how easy it is to do >so. Right _is_ right. We have no argument, Mr. Beasley.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:31:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:13:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:45:58 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 07:09:34 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review > >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:40:42 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>>From: J. Craig Beasley <fallingleaf.nul> >>>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:28:00 -0500 >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>><snip> >>>>SETI is a theory in search of data. End of story. >>><snip> >>>>Shostak is a scared and petty fool. >>>J. Craig: >>>But Shostak has charm, and panache. That's how he and his >>>cohorts keep SETI alive (funded). >>>Ufologists might be wise to emulate him... if the ends justifies >>>the means as it were. >>A Jesuit Machiavellian? Is that an oxymoron? >>Your preceding is a solution searching for a problem isn't it? >>Gotta break a few eggs - or, compromise some principles - for >>an omelet sometimes, eh, Mr. Reynolds? What if the eggs were >>about to hatch? Means _quality_ ends, Sir. >My dear Alfred: >Ufologists are so righteous (see Paul Kimball's attack on Frank >Warren at various UFO blogs) that they scare away those who less >inclined to be incendiary. Keyhoe was like that, bless him. >The Shostaks of the world use charm and guile to woo their >patrons - monied or powerful. It works. >Machiavelli was spot on (as are my Jesuit bethren). >Ufologists might try a bit of sugar now and then to entrap their >prey, and then let them have it with the truth, the real truth >of things. >But first things first... What was last _will_ be first. "Sugar" has achieved bubkis in 60 years, Sir. Machiavelli would try to justify institutional sociopathy. Intelligent _crime_ 'works'. Take your lessons from Maj. Keyhoe, as Mr. Kimball doesn't scare anyone but himself. And my best to the brothers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:17:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:37:22 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Hamilton >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:07 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:40:09 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>>Yesterday in my answer to David, I made the following comment: >>>"Here's the problem as I see it: Water molecules which make up >>>95% of all life, break their chemical bonds at just a little >>>above .02 of the speed of light, or 5100 miles per second. Isn't >>>that a little slow for star travel?" See: >>>http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x23.htm >>>There's a mistake I'd like to correct. >>In my estimation this is not a problem. After making a study >>of UFO dynamics it is plain to me that the occupants do not >>experience the forces of acceleration nor is their relative >>speed contained within the field of the craft anywhere near .02 >>of the speed of light. >Hi Bill, >I agree with you completely about this. The occupants of UFO >don't seem to experience the forces of acceleration. >>The earth moving with the sun has a velocity in its orbit around >>the galaxy. The Sun's circular velocity around the center of the >>Milky Way galaxy is measured to be vc = 220 km/s at its radius >>of R = 8 kpc. Our galaxy, and the Local Group of galaxies of >>which we are part, has been shown to be moving toward the Great >>Attractor with a peculiar velocity of 570 km/s (measured against >>the Cosmic Microwave Background). Lets see, for 220 km/s that >>would be 220,000 meters/sec. >Yes and I understand. I admit my interpretation of the formula >was totally incorrect. In fact I was about as wrong as I could >get, and I apologize for even bringing it up. >>Our water molecules must be flying apart! Why don't they? >>Because we are coupled in our velocity and acceleration (in >>orbit) to the earth's gravity field. Our spaceship occupants >>have a similar coupling to their ship's field and do not >>experience the velocity of the craft relative to the galaxy even >>.8c. >You are correct but my main thought was that at some point as >molecules accelerate toward the speed of light, they and then >the atoms they're constructed from, will lose their identity. I >don't know how fast that is. I suggested that the formula might >give us a clue as to what that speed might be. I was mistaken. >But no amount of muddled thinking on my part, nor my heartfelt >contrition will change the following - as far as we know: >"To accelerate any mass at all to the speed of light - even a >single electron never mind a spaceship - would take literally >infinite energy because as you push it closer to the limit its >own mass becomes ever greater until at light speed you'd be >trying to push an infinite mass. This comes out of the Lorentz >transformations of Special Relativity." (Quote from a List >member off line) >With this limitation in mind, I find it hard to understand why >folks won't even consider that we might share our solar system >with at least one other civilization and also consider that the >creature in the alien autopsy might be one of the critters who >at one time roamed their streets, looking for love. Ed, I believe the aliens get from way out there to here via extraordinary means that takes less than the tick of a second hand and this is also confirmed by inside sources. As for aliens in our backyard, in our solar system I say "yes". Try under earth, under oceans, under the moon's surface, under Mars, hidden in floating space stations behind Jupiter -- many possibilities. I think most of the alien craft seen on a daily basis somewhere in the world come from some undersea and underground bases. Puerto Rico is a good study for this.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Secrecy News -- 09/16/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:19:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:35:44 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/16/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 89 September 16, 2005 ** BUSH WAGE CUTS FOR RELIEF WORKERS MAY BE LEGAL ERROR ** DOD DICTIONARY OF MILITARY TERMS BUSH WAGE CUTS FOR RELIEF WORKERS MAY BE LEGAL ERROR On September 8, President Bush issued a proclamation suspending the minimum wage requirements for relief workers engaged in Katrina recovery operations. But in order to do so, he relied upon a statutory authority that has been dormant for thirty years and that appears to be legally inoperative. "I find that the conditions caused by Hurricane Katrina constitute a 'national emergency' within the meaning of section 3147 of title 40, United States Code," President Bush declared on September 8 as he removed the Davis Bacon Act wage supports for workers in Louisiana, and portions of Mississippi, Alabama and Florida. But this emergency statute was one of numerous authorities that were rendered dormant by the National Emergencies Act of 1976, and that can only be activated by certain procedural formalities that were absent in this case. In particular, the President must formally declare a national emergency under the National Emergencies Act, and he must specify which standby legal authorities he proposes to activate so as to permit congressional restraint of emergency powers. Strangely, however, President Bush proceeded as if the National Emergencies Act did not exist. The September 8 presidential declaration was "an anomaly," according to a new Congressional Research Service assessment, and it did not follow "the historical pattern of declaring a national emergency to activate the suspension authority." "The propriety of the President's action in this case may be ultimately determined in the courts," the CRS report stated delicately. The newly updated CRS report, written by Harold C. Relyea, traces the evolution of emergency powers and includes a tabulation of declared national emergencies from 1976-2005. See "National Emergency Powers," Congressional Research Service, updated September 15, 2005 (esp. pp. 18-19): http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/98-505.pdf The President's September 8 proclamation is here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/09/20050908- 5.html Why would the President deviate from established practice in this way? One subject matter expert consulted by Secrecy News rejected the idea that there was any self-interested motive at work, and noted that the President had properly invoked the National Emergencies Act in previous cases. "I think it's just poor staff work at the White House," he said. But if it was an innocent mistake, that doesn't mean it is an inconsequential one. "The hell-to-pay could come if a union or some affected worker decides this [wage cut] was improperly done" and files a lawsuit to challenge it, a possibility implicitly raised by the CRS above. Meanwhile, taking the President's proclamation at face value, Rep. George Miller and several dozen other members of Congress introduced a bill to undo what the President has proposed. H.R. 3763, introduced on September 14, would "reinstate the application of the wage requirements of the Davis-Bacon Act to Federal contracts in areas affected by Hurricane Katrina." DOD DICTIONARY OF MILITARY TERMS The Department of Defense has updated and substantially expanded its Dictionary of Military Terms. The Dictionary is useful for students of military policy and also provides some striking adaptations of ordinary language to military needs. "Space," picking an example at random, is defined as "A medium like the land, sea, and air within which military activities shall be conducted to achieve US national security objectives." See "Department of Defense Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms," Joint Publication 1-02, amended 31 August 2005 [746 pages, 2 MB PDF file]: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/jp1_02.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:34:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:38:31 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shough >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia [was: Harvard Exorcising >Its UFO Demons?] >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:07 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >But no amount of muddled thinking on my part, nor my heartfelt >contrition will change the following - as far as we know: >"To accelerate any mass at all to the speed of light - even a >single electron never mind a spaceship - would take literally >infinite energy because as you push it closer to the limit its >own mass becomes ever greater until at light speed you'd be >trying to push an infinite mass. This comes out of the Lorentz >transformations of Special Relativity." (Quote from a List >member off line) Hi Ed Since you've elected to make my remark part of the record I'm compelled now to add the very large "But... " with which I followed it: [QUOTE] ... I think you are partly right. As I said above, a conservative interpretation of the most conservative physics does support your scepticism about light-speed space travel, based on conservative assumptions about what "space travel" means, and you'd find a lot of conservative scientists who would agree with you. Nevertheless I'd have to agree with the nuts (maybe this makes me one?) that transport over interstellar or even intergalactic distances cannot be ruled out as impossible for all time. This is because the conservative argument against it is based on pushing mass across space with reaction engines, which may not be the only way of doing the job. During the mid-twentieth century, applying Special Relativity to technology based on accelerating lumps of metal by reaction engines, and so disproving the possibility of star travel, was easily defensible, if just a little unimaginative. But General Relativity subsumes Special Relativity, and the question of interpreting what 21st century General Relativity should look like when merged with quantum theory is much more subtle. I think most theoretical physicists today would probably say that the whole tenor of that "star rocket" debate now seems very old- fashioned. They are thoroughly used to concepts like wormholes, exotic matter and vacuum energy, and fully aware that there are huge unknowns underlying the standard models of physics and cosmology. The old terms of the debate don't really apply any more. As a result of trying to reconcile the traditional General Relativity picture and quantum theory, the view of what spacetime even *is* is undergoing revolutionary changes - still underway. The future manipulation of spacetime and gravity might allow us to get around the infinite-mass argument and transport objects across the cosmos in realistic intervals - or even in zero proper time. Such ideas may still be out there on the edge of conjecture, but it is respectable conjecture among theorists these days. [End Quote] >With this limitation in mind, I find it hard to understand why >folks won't even consider that we might share our solar system >with at least one other civilization and also consider that the >creature in the alien autopsy might be one of the critters who >at one time roamed their streets, looking for love. You insist on the conservative stance that there is no _proof_ that interstellar travel can occur. This is true, and conservatism has value. But there is no proof that the AA film shows authentic images of an unknown egg-laying mammal either. That is not the most conservative conjecture. You offer us an intriguing embellishment on the old and varied theme that a hidden order of powerful beings occupies this world invisibly alongside us. I'm sure a lot of listers would give at least some consideration to one or other variation on that theme, but they'd refuse to accept that the rest of the cosmos beyond the solar system can be ruled out of account by walling us in. That isn't conservative, it's deeply radical, even mediaeval. If there are non-human ufonauts here then they seem to have been around for a long time, so it isn't a great stretch to say that they "share our solar system" in some sense, whatever their physiology (assuming they have one). But as far as any sensible interpretation of physics and cosmology is concerned, they could have come from anywhere. Indeed according to some theorists _we_ (or the primitive stuff we grew from) could have come from
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:37:37 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:40:27 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia [was: Harvard Exorcising > Its UFO Demons?] >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:07 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>In my estimation this is not a problem. After making a study >>of UFO dynamics it is plain to me that the occupants do not >>experience the forces of acceleration nor is their relative >>speed contained within the field of the craft anywhere near .02 >>of the speed of light. >You are correct but my main thought was that at some point as >molecules accelerate toward the speed of light, they and then >the atoms they're constructed from, will lose their identity. I >don't know how fast that is. I suggested that the formula might >give us a clue as to what that speed might be. I was mistaken. >But no amount of muddled thinking on my part, nor my heartfelt >contrition will change the following - as far as we know: >"To accelerate any mass at all to the speed of light - even a >single electron never mind a spaceship - would take literally >infinite energy because as you push it closer to the limit its >own mass becomes ever greater until at light speed you'd be >trying to push an infinite mass. This comes out of the Lorentz >transformations of Special Relativity." (Quote from a List >member off line) Ed, you've admitted you were wrong in your interpretation of the formula, and, in my eyes that makes you a big man. The 'mass increase during acceleration' that you have now brought up, based on the Lorentz transformations, (used in Einstein's Special Relativity theory) is indeed _more_ of an obstacle to travelling at light speed - unlike your 'molecular limit' idea. It is a more valid arguement against a spaceship travelling at light speed. Now we have something real to gnaw on. However, it may be possible to circumvent even the limitations apparently imposed by relativity's 'mass increase.' The property of inertia, in essence, is really the property of gravitation obversely applied. The resistance to acceleration (inertia) that results in the mass increase, therefore, may be dependent upon gravitation - that is, gravitation may be the 'tether' that holds macroscopic matter within the curvature of space-time (we're getting into Einstein's General Relativity theory here). If such is indeed the case, then, if, as Bill proposes, UFOs have their own artificial gravitational fields surrounding them, and - as I propose - these artificial fields somehow substitute for, and act against, the natural gravitation-inertia field of our space-time continuum, this 'tether' may be broken - by allowing the UFO to 'seperate' itself from the curvature of space-time that usually tells matter where to go (along geodesic routes) and from the normal inertia that causes the mass increase during acceleration - allowing extremely fast velocity, maybe even light speed or beyond. The UFO may also be free to travel in a straight line, and this is akin to actually folding up space and time (as it is now travelling via a much shorter route because it is travelling 'outside the curvature of space- time' which, of course, is a longer route because a curved line drawn between any two points is longer than a straight line between the same two points). Gravitation may be defining the boundaries that keeps macroscopic matter locked within its realm - the physical universe of atoms and molecules you referred to - that is, it may be preventing macroscopic matter from enjoying the benefits of the timeless, distanceless realm that its (constituent) subatomic particles have access to. Gravitation may be a force that only becomes significant at the macroscopic level (atoms and molecules) and which forces these to move along (longer) curved routes in space-time. When something of an 'x' number of dimensions curves, it usually has to curve through a medium possessing 'x + 1' dimensions. A line (one-dimensional) requires its curvature to be contained (bound) within a two-dimensional plane, whereas that two- dimensional plane (when it becomes curved) must have its curvature contained or bound within a three-dimensional structure, for instance. Thus, if space-time is curved, it should curve through a higher space and this region outside the curvature of space-time is, by its very definition, beyond 'space' and beyond 'time' (i.e. distanceless and timeless). Thus, breaking the 'tether' of gravitation may allow straight- line displacement through a region of 'zero time, zero distance' or (from our perspective) instantaneous displacement through space-time, which is what quantum physics tells us our constituent subatomic particles seem to be doing all the time. Geometry tells us that a line contains an infinite number of points, a plane contains an infinite number of lines, and a space contains an infinite number of planes. This supposed region (higher space) that contains our 'space' then should contain an infinite number of 'spaces' (with different orientations). Since information is repeated an infinite number of times in such a scenario, and never in the same place, you have the 'holographic nature of all information' that quantum physics is also telling us exists - and all based on the most simple of principles. Thus, the macroscopic and quantum realms really aren't seperate - but gravitation keeps macroscopic matter tethered to move only along limited, restricted paths in the holographic universe. Although we are made up of ubiquitous particles, we can't instantly jump from here to, say, Zeta Reticuli, as our constituent particles can, because, once atoms and molecules form, the gravitational force between them becomes significant and acts as a 'gravitational rope' that slows them down and forces them to move in limited, curved routes (something like how a dog on a rope is forced to define a circle around the stake in the ground as it strains against its tether). These artificial fields that Bill mentioned - that permits them to not only not feel the effects of instantaneous acceleration to fantastic velocity but to perform the other amazing manouvres they are known for - may also represent the key that gives them access to the quantum universe. Maybe, in the presence of gravitation, matter has an upper limit of velocity - 186, 000 miles per hour (approximately). Maybe, however, if you break the 'tether' of gravitation, all displacement is instantaneous because you move in straight lines outside of 'space' and outside of 'time' - there is indeed no time-movement, as quantum physics suggests. There have been many times in the history of our progress that 'current' knowledge made someone say something is not possible _because_ certain principles exist, and then other principles that allowed circumvention of the 'limiting principles' were discovered. All I'm trying to do is point out that what science tells us are limits today may be limits only because we haven't yet discovered the path that exists around them. In any event, as has been said before, it is not necessary to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 16 Threshold From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:36:22 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:41:58 -0400 Subject: Threshold CBS is airing a new program called Threshold tonight the 16th: http://www.cbs.com/primetime/threshold/ which proports to be about UFOs and the like. Those who can't resist flogging themselves with these allusions to the real
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Romford UK UFO Mystery Solved From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:19:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:19:06 -0400 Subject: Romford UK UFO Mystery Solved Source: The Romford Recorder - Romford, Essex, UK http://tinyurl.com/a248e 16 September 2005 UFO Mystery Solved The Recorder can now shed light on the mystery UFOs seen in the sky last week - they were sky lanterns!! Reports flooded into our office of lots of orange, unidentified flying objects after the Smalley family saw the mysterious lights floating over their home in Acacia Avenue, Elm Park, at 10pm on Monday, August 29. And it now seems likely that the mystery lights are not hi-tech visitors from outerspace but an ancient kind of party popper imported by Grant Barry for his six-month-old business, Sky Lanterns. The 26-year-old from Stapleford Abbotts, ships over the floating lanterns from Asia and has let them off at around 30 weddings and parties. Green He said: "I'm afraid to say these aren't little green men flying around. It's most likely me letting off the lanterns in my garden or some of our recent parties. "The lanterns are like little hot air balloons. You set fire to the wick and let them float up into the air. They're made from mulberry paper wrapped around bamboo frames." Grant came across the sky lanterns while travelling around Asia where they are released during festivals. They vary in size from titchy 2ft to a massive 8ft tall. Grant charges =A3999 for a display of 100 sky lanterns. He said: "I was at a festival on a beach in Indonesia when suddenly they let off thousands of sky lanterns. It was breathtaking. I'd never seen anything like them so decided to bring them to England." Janet Smalley, 53, whose family were the first to contact the Recorder about the sightings, said: "My son will be disappointed. I think he was hoping they were real UFOs." Keith Blackwell, 48, Gorseway, reported seeing mystery lights. He said: "I saw an indistinct orange light to the south east at about 40 degrees high. It was totally stationary in the sky." His wife Kate said: "It certainly did not look like a lantern. It was hovering in the sky then came shooting towards us. It then shot back to its original position. It really spooked me." Pat Fitzpatrick of Hornchurch added: "We were at a barbecue in Grenfell Avenue on Bank Holiday Monday and late in the evening a large orange light flew overhead, stopped for about 30 seconds and then went up higher and higher until it disappeared." Liz Gamby, 51, from Douglas Road, Hornchurch, also witnessed the light display. She said: "I was looking up at the stars with my son Thomas, 23, when we saw an orange light in the sky. It was moving along, getting higher and higher. We were all stumped." Baffled Tony Rutter from Coltsfoot Path, Harold Hill, also saw them: "There were about seven lights, a group of five and two singles. We were just as baffled as the Smalley family." Grant said that he had been releasing the lanterns at a wedding on August 27 and a pool party on August 28. He added that he often experiments with the lanterns in his back garden, most Friday and Saturday nights - when most of the sightings have been made. John Murphy,48, of Channing Close, Hornchurch, saw them on
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Seeger From: Kevin Seeger <seeger.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:02:07 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:23:02 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Seeger Just a comment from the Greek Chorus: I have been following the various debates here for over a year without entering the discussion. There is much good debate and some nonsense to be found here. I got interested in ufology via the familiar route - two sightings and one missing time episode. I have read all the theories and I have versed myself in quantum physics and parapsychology. I just want to comment that I appreciate Ed Gehrman's evolved monotreme theory. Humans were living in the Stone Age just a few thousand years ago and now we have people living in orbit. The fact that great apes didn't even come on the scene until only 5 million years ago suggests that evolution moves faster than most people recognize. Vertebrates got started 500 million years ago and I'm sure they haven't stopped although we are familiar with many critters who found their niche and stopped evolving, like sharks, alligators, etc. There is a tremendous amount of geological time available for creatures to have evolved on Earth into something smarter than us. There was time enough for them to evolve smarts, perfect metallurgy, discern quantum physics and relocate to the ocean floor with time left over for the elements to remove any trace of them. All I'm saying is that it is a valid theory and should be considered as plausible rather than ridiculed. So many times Occam's Razor is evoked to cut to the core of plausibility in these discussions and if we all agree there is intelligent life in our skies and under our oceans, then Occam suggests the more plausible origin of that life is Earth since life is already known to exist here. We can argue forever about theoretical physics and the possibility for alien intelligences to traverse vast distances of space, but none of that is needed with the simpler explanation. That said, I was concerned when Ed Gherman began his "disintegrating molecules" conjecture. I am pleased that he has recanted and I agree with Eugene Frison that Ed is a big man for doing so. What got me to chime in is Eugene's "x + 1 dimensions"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:20:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:24:53 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled - White >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:00:56 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Mystery Leaves Experts Baffled <snip> >This particular case is amusing because the "experiment" >(appearance of orange balls) was done twice. The first time the >"establishment" found some"wiggle room" in the jet exhaust >explanation. But the second time... sorry, no jets! Afterburners have to scale back on the amount of fuel injected as altitude increases. A very orange flame is characteristic of low altitude, with smaller, bright blue flame at higher altitude.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:44:42 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:27:58 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:37:37 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:07 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? <snip> >The property of inertia, in essence, is really the property of >gravitation obversely applied. The resistance to acceleration >(inertia) that results in the mass increase, therefore, may be >dependent upon gravitation - that is, gravitation may be the >'tether' that holds macroscopic matter within the curvature of >space-time (we're getting into Einstein's General Relativity >theory here). <snip> Hello Eugene, Without getting into deep water, only want to comment on 'inertia' and the 'falling leaf motion' so often reported. There are only two scenarios - as far as I know - for the falling leaf motion: a) a nearly weightless plane-body falling under gravity and being acted on by air pressure - the _real_ falling leaf b) a body (of any mass) with artificial inertia field which will 'balance' itself against Earth "gravity" - resulting in apparent 'falling leaf motion' Because _real_ falling leaves could not move laterally for any significant distance at any significant speed, and because reports are often of fast moving bodies traveling long distances, I think the second scenario is most probable. Cheers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Thai Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:38:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:32:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Thai Villagers Claim ET Sighting - Hatch >From: Don Johnson <donjohnson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:36:44 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Thai Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 02:08:14 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Villagers Claim ET Sighting >>>>>Source: The Nation - Bangkok, Thailand >>>>>http://www.komchadluek.net/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=80968 >>>>>Sep 09 2005 >>>>>Villagers Claim ET Sighting <snip> >As for Mae Chan, I will ask some of my Thai students to >complete the translation for me of the article I sent you from >www.manager.co.th According to my first reading there were over >100 witnesses, so I wouldn't be too quick to assume the balloon >explanation is correct. >Mae Chan is definitely a real place, I have been there several >times (when I lived in Chiang Rai). There is a restaurant there >that has excellent Chinese soup! I may make a trip to Chiang Rai >province in October and try to talk to witnesses (no promises). >There is also a Dr. Therapon Muangman at Mahidol University in >Bangkok who appears to be the local UFO guru. I will try >checking in with him as well. Hi Don: This is great! I found Mae Chan as "Ban Mae Chan" in Chiang Rae Province. 99:51:14E - 20:08:50N Is that the same place? If so, I might need distance and compass direction from there to the actual village of Huay Nam Rak. That is the place I could never find, and apparently the actual sighting location. I'm still wondering if the very clear color picture of the 'Tweety Bird' balloon(?) was put up as a facile explanation for something stranger, or whether that came from one of the actual witnesses. The Thai text on the article you sent earlier should clarify that, if anyone there can read it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:55:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:54:42 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:34:18 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia [was: Harvard Exorcising >>Its UFO Demons?] >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:37:07 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Harvard Exorcising Its UFO Demons? >>But no amount of muddled thinking on my part, nor my heartfelt >>contrition will change the following - as far as we know: >>"To accelerate any mass at all to the speed of light - even a >>single electron never mind a spaceship - would take literally >>infinite energy because as you push it closer to the limit its >>own mass becomes ever greater until at light speed you'd be >>trying to push an infinite mass. This comes out of the Lorentz >>transformations of Special Relativity." (Quote from a List >>member off line) >Since you've elected to make my remark part of the record I'm >compelled now to add the very large "But... " with which I >followed it: Martin, That's fine with me. I didn't think you'd care if I used it, but didn't name you because I didn't know whether you wanted to be part of the discussion. Your quote said what I was trying to say but much more efficiently and clearer and emphasized what I believe is true and what scientists seem to be saying. The reason that main stream scientists don't believe UFO from other star systems are visiting this planet is because star travel isn't feasible or foreseeable. >[QUOTE] >... I think you are partly right. As I said above, a >conservative interpretation of the most conservative physics >does support your scepticism about light-speed space travel, >based on conservative assumptions about what "space travel" >means, and you'd find a lot of conservative scientists who would >agree with you. Nevertheless I'd have to agree with the nuts >(maybe this makes me one?) that transport over interstellar or >even intergalactic distances cannot be ruled out as impossible >for all time. This is because the conservative argument against >it is based on pushing mass across space with reaction engines, >which may not be the only way of doing the job. And I agreed with that. >During the mid-twentieth century, applying Special Relativity to >technology based on accelerating lumps of metal by reaction >engines, and so disproving the possibility of star travel, was >easily defensible, if just a little unimaginative. But General >Relativity subsumes Special Relativity, and the question of >interpreting what 21st century General Relativity should look >like when merged with quantum theory is much more subtle. I >think most theoretical physicists today would probably say that >the whole tenor of that "star rocket" debate now seems very old- >fashioned. They are thoroughly used to concepts like wormholes, >exotic matter and vacuum energy, and fully aware that there are >huge unknowns underlying the standard models of physics and >cosmology. The old terms of the debate don't really apply any >more. As a result of trying to reconcile the traditional General >Relativity picture and quantum theory, the view of what >spacetime even *is* is undergoing revolutionary changes - still >underway. The future manipulation of spacetime and gravity might >allow us to get around the infinite-mass argument and transport >objects across the cosmos in realistic intervals - or even in >zero proper time. Such ideas may still be out there on the edge >of conjecture, but it is respectable conjecture among theorists >these days. And I said I read Parallel Worlds by Kaku, and wasn't impressed. I think I said "Parallel Universe, by Wolf" but I meant Kaku. Just because a respected physicist or any scientist can think up something radical and impressive sounding, doesn't make it objectively true. >>With this limitation in mind, I find it hard to understand why >>folks won't even consider that we might share our solar system >>with at least one other civilization and also consider that the >>creature in the alien autopsy might be one of the critters who >>at one time roamed their streets, looking for love. >You insist on the conservative stance that there is no _proof_ >that interstellar travel can occur. This is true, and >conservatism has value. But there is no proof that the AA film >shows authentic images of an unknown egg-laying mammal either. >That is not the most conservative conjecture. Yes I agree that my view is conservative and as I explained to you, I didn't always think that way. I was one of Stan's biggest fans and wrote a rave review on Crash At Corona for Flatland Magazine. But after studying that AA creature and the debris, I began to change my thinking. Realizing that the creature is a real being who was alive and kicking is a life changing event. The monotreme connection was arrived at by thinking out the various possibilities. I realize that it's a wild idea, but you're not dismissing it outright, and that is a big boost. >You offer us an intriguing embellishment on the old and varied >theme that a hidden order of powerful beings occupies this world >invisibly alongside us. Yes "The King of the World" syndrome. >I'm sure a lot of listers would give at >least some consideration to one or other variation on that >theme, but they'd refuse to accept that the rest of the cosmos >beyond the solar system can be ruled out of account by walling >us in. That isn't conservative, it's deeply radical, even >mediaeval. I don't mind faith or scientific serendipity. This discussion started when I said the debris in the AA footage wasn't from a starship and Stan replied that it didn't need to be a starship because it could have been from a mothership. I then answered that I agreed it could have been from a mother ship but that mothership wasn't a star ship because star travel wasn't possible. The discussion went downhill from there. The craft featured in the AA footage and the cameraman's drawings is not from a distant star. There are many reasons why I think this is true, but it's impossible to discuss these reasons with someone who hasn't also studied the AA creature and debris and isn't familiar with the drawings. In general terms, the technology needed for star travel is missing. My involvement with the MP(MP's Story), has also colored my thinking because he said the creatures recovered at Roswell, (main site north west of Corona, not the Brazel site) were exactly the same as the creature in the AA and his description of the craft was very similar to the cameraman's drawings. These two main events, linked as they are but entirely separate, by the creatures and craft, made me rethink my previous assumption regarding star travel and that's why I've adopted this conservative and somewhat "mediaeval" attitude. I'm certainly open to other opinions as long as they're from folks who have spent time viewing the footage or even reading my articles and posts. I just want a fair shake for the AA creature. >If there are non-human ufonauts here then they seem to have been >around for a long time, so it isn't a great stretch to say that >they "share our solar system" in some sense, whatever their >physiology (assuming they have one).] In a general way that's correct, but we have a real sample. Why not try to figure out her nature. It's the best we have, yet it's been totally ignored or rejected by the vast majority of researchers. >But as far as any sensible >interpretation of physics and >cosmology is concerned, they could>have come from anywhere. >Indeed according to some theorists _we_ (or the primitive stuff >we grew from) could have come from anywhere - so maybe we came >in on their shoes? All of that could be true, but there's a sense of airy, anything-could-be about this point of view. My concerns are more bread and butter, or more likely guns and butter. If I'm correct about our neighbors, then at some point we will be invaded and clear contact will be initiated. Then it will be important to know whether these are starfolks or homeboys trying to assume starfolk identities as they seem to be doing now.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 'Meteor' Sighting Over UK Town From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:00:31 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:00:31 -0400 Subject: 'Meteor' Sighting Over UK Town Source: The Shropshire Star - Shrewsbury, UK Man In 'Meteor' Sighting Over Town Sep 16, 2005 A north Shropshire man has told of his amazement at seeing a "massive glowing object moving through the sky". Steve Powell, 49, who lives near Prees Green, saw what he believes was a huge meteor last night at around 11.45pm. He described the object as a big orange ball, about the size of a full moon. Mr Powell is now wondering if anyone else saw the phenomenon, which he believes was a meteor crashing to earth.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Government Vs. Aliens In Threshold From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:05:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:05:42 -0400 Subject: Government Vs. Aliens In Threshold Source: The Union-Tribune - San Diego, California, USA http://tinyurl.com/a6u7h September 16, 2005 Its The Government Vs. The Aliens In A Drama With Real Fear Factors By Robert P. Laurence Union-Tribune Television Critic Fantasy is all the rage on TV this fall, but "Threshold" may present the most appealingly fantastic fantasy of all. In "Threshold," a disaster-preparedness program of the United States government works the way it's supposed to. There are people with a plan, they know where the plan is, and when an emergency arises, they follow the plan and deal with the situation. A great concept, but will anybody believe it? It might be easier to believe that a giant space ship, a silvery, jagged thing that looks like an enormous Christmas tree ornament hanging in the sky, has been messing with the DNA of people who get near it and turning them into clones of space creatures. So goes "Threshold," a genuinely scary, truly creepy, higher- tech rewrite of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers," the 1956 sci- fi classic starring Kevin McCarthy. Carla Gugino, who starred in ABC's short-lived "Karen Sisco," plays Dr. Molly Anne Caffrey, whose job it is to develop "worst- case scenarios" for the feds. Oddly enough, when she does that, the government listens. So when strange things begin to happen on a cargo ship in the Atlantic, Caffrey is called in. Several members of the crew have been killed in gory fashion, and several more are missing. One of them still lives, but he's clearly the worse for wear. After the visit, "people weren't the same, they weren't themselves," says the lone survivor, who also seems to be not quite himself. The ship is infested with roaches, which are marching in a strange formation, rather like a three-pronged swastika. That pattern will be seen frequently. Arthur Ramsey (Peter Dinklage, "The Station Agent"), a member of Caffrey's team of scientists, discovers that the DNA of the men on the ship has been genetically altered. "Someone's trying to unzip our DNA strands and reassemble them," he speculates. Rather than invade planet Earth with armies, reasons Caffrey, "Wouldn't it be more efficient if you could just send information, download a program into the indigenous population and turn them into you? ... "We have to assume we're dealing with an intelligence so advanced its capabilities border on the supernatural."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Thanks To Stuart Miller From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:17:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:17:18 -0400 Subject: Thanks To Stuart Miller Many of the news articles posted to UFO UpDates come from leads provided by Stuart Miller. I sometimes neglect to add the tag: [Thanks to Stuart Miller of http://www.uforeview.net for the lead] when posting those articles to the List. My apologies to Stuart for not crediting him and my gratitude
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 37 - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 05:57:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:13:08 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 37 - Hatch >From: John Hayes <John.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:10:24 +0100 >Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 37 >Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. ><Masinaigan.nul> >========================== >UFO ROUNDUP, Vol.10, #37, September 14, 2005 >Editor: Joseph Trainor >1936: UFOs OVER KANSAS >At about 10:30 p.m., on Monday, September 14, 1936, >farmer William Beverly Hamilton, 20, climbed the back >porch steps of his parents' house south of Wichita, >Kansas. <snip> >.. Within minutes, the three Hamiltons were on the back >porch, staring upward at the strange aerial display in the >sky. The "plates," as Bill's mother called them, hovered >motionless for several minutes. Then, glowing a slightly >brighter blue, they zipped to the east in single file, >then made an "impossible" 90-degree turn to the south. >The strange maneuvers went on for nearly fifteen minutes. >And then, without a sound, the UFOs darted south toward >the Arkansas River and disappeared over the horizon. <snip> Hi Joseph: I know this is asking a heck of a lot, but pre-1947 sightings are rare and could give important clues. What if anything can be done to verify this report? Was it all from a single source as indicated? Can the correspondent be contacted, through you or otherwise for further details if needed?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:32:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:15:21 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Reynolds >From: Kevin Seeger <seeger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:02:07 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia <snip> >Everybody who thinks ufology is filled with nutcases >should spend a year on this List.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Miller From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:42:04 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:17:02 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Miller >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:09:13 -0300 >Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:26:18 +0100 (BST) >>Subject: SETI Redux De Lux >>I've been re-thinking my attitide towards SETI recently and >>wonder if it's time for a revision. Me'thinks it might be. ><snip> >Sorry but Seth has been unscientific and dishonest in many >ways. >I have listened to three of his lectures on the QE 2,(he was >present for 2 of mine but one could never tell that) read a >couple of his books debated with him on Coast to Coast for >three hours. >We do not have the same goals. >He wants to pick up radio signals. >I am concerned with intelligent life that is coming here. He >says the evidence isn't strong enough. He has not examined any >of the evidence to which I referred in lectures he heard. >It is totally dishonest to talk about our fastest satellite >taking 70 thousand years to get to the nearest star. It has no >propulsion system on it and is coasting. Would throwing a >bottle in the ocean tell you how long it takes to get across >the ocean? Would tossing a feather in the air tell one how >long it takes to fly around the earth? Perhaps we should use >the speed of our fastest bicycle to tell us how long it takes >to go from Boston to LA. >He knows nothing about advanced nuclear propulsion systems, >even the ones that have been ground tested. >The SETI cultists assume there is no interstellar travel by >anyone ever. This means any source of radio signals is where >it has always been rather than a colony of an older >civilization. >He assumes that with a mere 100 years of technology behind us >that we could use the right technology to pick up a signal >from somebody who might be a million years or more older than >us. >This isn't science. It is wishful thinking. >Terms like absolute proof don't belong in this discussion. He >has provided not even a whit of evidence - no less proof - >that anybody is out there sending signals that we can detect. >We have a great deal of evidence that intelligent life is >visiting the planet even if they don't check in with SETI. >The emperor has no clothes. >Check out my challenge to SETI Specialists at my website: >http://www.stantonfriedman.com Stan, I'm sure you're right on all of the above. But just try and look at it through the eyes of s disinterested party, who has the whole shambolic debate laid out for him. I think the term, "bunch of prats" might welll come into his mind. To him, the differences that are so striking and important to you would be just nuances to him. However finely you may want to split the hairs Stan, we are on the same path with SETI, like it or not. And just how are "we" going to react if they get a confirmed signal in the near future, before the flying saucer has had a chance to land on the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shell From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:58:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:19:23 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shell >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia <snip> >"To accelerate any mass at all to the speed of light - even a >single electron never mind a spaceship - would take literally >infinite energy because as you push it closer to the limit its >own mass becomes ever greater until at light speed you'd be >trying to push an infinite mass. This comes out of the Lorentz >transformations of Special Relativity." (Quote from a List >member off line) >With this limitation in mind, I find it hard to understand why >folks won't even consider that we might share our solar system >with at least one other civilization and also consider that the >creature in the alien autopsy might be one of the critters who >at one time roamed their streets, looking for love. Special relativity limits traditional travel to sub-light speed, that's true. But getting fr^om one point in space time to another point in space time by traversing the distance in between is but one mode of moving around in this multi- dimensional universe of ours. There are many models that would allow getting from one point to another without passing through the intervening space- time. In fact, some have suggested that time travel may be much easier and require less energy outlay than long distance space travel. If we limit ourselves to a Newtonian universe, we'll never get from here to there. But it has become increasingly clear to physicists that there is a lot more going on in this universe than Newton ever dreamed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Miller From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:03:23 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:21:18 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Miller >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:29:39 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:26:18 +0100 (BST) >>Subject: SETI Redux De Lux >>I've been re-thinking my attitide towards SETI recently and >>wonder if it's time for a revision. Me'thinks it might be. >>We knock Uncle Seth because he won't acknowledge the evidence >>that we profer and as far as he is concerned, there has been >>absolutely no proof of ET visitation here on Earth. Why do we >>blindly criticise him for that? How inane are we? Turkeys are >>not usually in the habit of voting for Christmas and any such >>philosophical wobbling on Seth's part will possibly >>compromise Paul Allen's funding. You might well accuse him >>of scientific dishonesty but even if that were true, he >>wouldn't be alone. And he has a point; namely we can't >>produce the absolute proof he asks for. We can show him a >>very strong possibility but we can't show him absolute proof. >No - he has the bully mainstream pulpit in the weaker >evidentiary position and he uses it to discount the stronger, >braver, more expansive, and finally, _richer_ evidentiary >position. Please pardon the hyperbole, but may the vermin of a >thousand camels infest his scrotal area. Hyperbole? I see no hyperbole. But that camel image Alfred. Did your eyes water when you wrote that? >>Did you, btw, catch 'that word' in the above paragraph? >>"Scientific". There, I've said it. We drone on and on about >>how science ignores us and there are plenty of folk on this > >List who will retire happily to their graves in the >>knowledge that science has at last turned its head in our >>direction, except that it has with SETI and still we moan. >>Maybe it's the wrong sort of science? Maybe we're only >>interested in science that agrees with us before any >>investigation has begun? >Mainstream science is not remotely scientific with regard to >UFO. This is pointed out by many respected names past and >present. Moreover, few bemoan SETI *success* such as it is. >It's the pandering after and celebration of the attentions of >a gutless, convenient, complacent, and corporate system >chapping folks nether regions, I suspect. The front man's >going to be the front man for everything good and bad. Look >at the idiot prince GWB. You seem to be obsessed with genitalia today Alfred. May I ask why? And, if I read you right, you appear to be complaining about the fact that SETI are better at PR than we are. There's an easy answer to that one. >>It might also be worth reminding the List, because it's easy >to forget, that Seth and his colleagues are trying to do >>exactly what we are trying to do. We have the same aims! >>Ergo it naturally follows, as in any scientific discipline, > >that we should therefore be at each others throats. >Then tell him to put his hands down, knock off the big arm >movements, or quit facilitating his senseless (_if_ >'believable') ufological derision. Has he ever read Richard >Hall, Jerry Clark, or Peter Sturrock? I suspect not. We know >he's read his Kal Korff... Moreover, bully pulpit or no, his >is the weaker dog in the fight. Maybe he shouldn't arbitrarily >run with the big evidentiary dogs. He's just doing his best, as he sees it, for his and SETI's interests. >>We could just try growing up a bit. >Or calling a spade a spade and giving as good as we get. >Outrage is not _necessarily_ immaturity, _me_'thinks. I meant burying the hatchet (no, not in his head) and maybe making sweet talk. I suggest we unite with them! Combined, we'd flush any lurking alien out of his bolt hole and get him to fess up instantly. >>Give Uncle Seth a cyber slap on the back and wish him well >>next time you see him on the box instead of the usual booing >>and hissing, and tell him to get the job done quickly. Who >>cares which way we find out, as long we eventually do. >Well - considering his behavior, shtick, and track-record he's >easy to boo and hiss at. Maybe he could try to be less boo- >hissable. It's true Sir, he's not the most loveable of individuals. Smug, unimaginative, condescending etc. Why don't you invite him to come stay with you for a short while and then, when enjoying the no doubt impressive hospitality in the Lehmberg household, he might be smitten by your enthusiasm and your concern for his sexual organs and might be persuaded to cast a more sympathetic eye in the direction of Ufology? >Concept disapproved at this station - resubmit in 30-days for >final disapproval. <g>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Fate Mag 'A Response To Kevin Randle' - From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 16:16:53 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:27:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Fate Mag 'A Response To Kevin Randle' - [Not for discussion until Nick Redfern returns from tending his ailing mother --ebk] >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Date: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 4:12 PM >Subject: UFO UpDate: Fate Mag 'A Response To Kevin Randle' >A Response To Kevin Randle >by Nick Redfern >FATE Magazine - September 2005 >"Kevin Randle's review of my book, Body Snatchers in >the Desert: The Horrible Truth at the Heart of the Roswell >Story, makes a number of comments and observations."..... ><snip> >More at: >http://www.fatemag.com/2005_09art3.html Thank you for signaling this answer to Nick Redfern. I see that the arguments of Kevin Randle, in addition to all those already published on the list, have not hanged the mind of Nick in the least. Well, his arguments don't change mine either. The basic question is: what is the credibility of his informers? Let's test it on a key issue of the whole story. Nick has quoted them many times telling him that handicapped Japanese prisoners had been brought back from Unit 731 in Manchuria. And it is the reason why all this had to be kept secret "at all costs". But all serious historical sources, easy to check, show that this was impossible. Unit 731 had been destroyed and all prisoners killed before the arrival of the Soviet troops. In addition to that, Japanese doctors have pointed out that they needed healthy prisoners in order to get significant results: no handicapped prisoners! The whole chapter 5 "Medical madness" is devoted to it, describing in detail the Japanese bio warfare progam at Unit 731, including "physically handicapped Chinese and Japanese individuals" (p 56). Here is a quick quotation of his whistle- blowers on Unit 731. In 1996, the first informer, Mr "Levine", told him (p. 85): "When the Japanese surrendered in the wake of the atomic destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, a number of these bodies and "a quantity" of still living people were found in the remains of Unit 731 facilities (and also German laboratories) by Allied soldiers". Nick goes on quoting Levine: "Of key relevance is the fact that a number of these people, said Levine, were dwarves, handicapped, with enlarged heads, and were used in a variety of experiments in the New Mexico desert" (etc). Another informer, "Bill Salter", told Nick, in Dec. 6, 2003 (p. 91): "...most crucially, the fact that it tied the American government to some of the most notorious and diabolical figures in Unit 731 - meant that elements of the military and intelligence community wanted the story systematically buried at all costs, even more than half a century later". Then comes Al Barker, on December 9 (three days later!), who says he has seen documents proving that deformed people had been used at Unit 731, and that "it was bodies with some of these defects that were recovered at White Sands and nearby in New Mexico desert and led directly to the "alien body" legends (p. 92, and again p. 141). Then comes the "Colonel" (p. 108) who told him (in Nov. 2003) that "handicapped people that were taken from American hospitals that had been taken from the Unit 731 labs" had been used for the White Sands experiments. Nick Redfern refers again to Unit 731 bodies in his chapter 13 "Body Snatchers" (p. 156) and 16 "Progeria" (pp. 196 and 206), and in his final conclusions (p. 207). From all this, we can conclude that Nick Redfern's informers lack completely of any credibility. Therefore, all other aspects of the story are to be put in doubt as well. For instance, the story of a Japanese, "Horten-like" aircraft. There is absolutely no proof that it existed. Anyway, the idea of linking a fast plane to a balloon is an aeronautical nightmare. The only sense it makes is to try to give an explanation for the testimonies on the alien craft in Roswell, and for the debris field with the balloon. I find interesting that this incredible tale comes from several allegedly independant informers, in fact linked to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Government Vs. Aliens In Threshold - Shell From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:52:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:30:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Government Vs. Aliens In Threshold - Shell >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Source: The Union-Tribune - San Diego, California, USA >http://tinyurl.com/a6u7h >September 16, 2005 <snip> >"We have to assume we're dealing with an intelligence so >advanced its capabilities border on the supernatural." >On the other hand, maybe the aliens just want to know how the >U.S. government deals with an emergency. >Naah. Howcome this reviewer doesn't even mention that this series represents the return to series television of Brent Spiner, who played Data in Star Treck:TNG series and movies? To me he was the highlight of the two-hour premiere last night.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: Government Vs. Aliens In Threshold - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:21:44 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:26:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Government Vs. Aliens In Threshold - Ledger UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >Source: The Union-Tribune - San Diego, California, USA >http://tinyurl.com/a6u7h >September 16, 2005 >Its The Government Vs. The Aliens In A Drama With Real Fear Factors >By Robert P. Laurence Union-Tribune Television Critic My apologies to the List for providing a hurried heads-up yesterday, for this waste of two hours of your time on CBS last night. It began with supposedly the first time that anyone had heard about UFOs at sea or anywhere else. There have been reports, for decades, of fireballs which might not have been fireballs, and ship's crews seeing UFOs/USOs, but for some reason this suddenly became important to some "finely tuned" agency [like FEMA?] in Washington. The plot plods along until this agency has to blow up the US Navy vessel before a North Korean sub gets there. A North Korean sub off the US and the US forces have to run from it? They can get a limited range chopper to the ship but no other assets. The show degenerated from there to muderous aliens who look like us [I warned you] who somehow manage to get ashore on their own and the usual frightening ghoul-type behind the fridge door shock [shlock?] ploy.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:28:40 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:28:23 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Ledger >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:32:31 -0500 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Kevin Seeger <seeger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:02:07 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia ><snip> >>Everybody who thinks ufology is filled with nutcases should >>spend a year on this List. >To prove that ufology is filled with nutcases? >Rich Reynolds
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:50:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:32:19 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Lehmberg >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:03:23 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:29:39 -0500 >>Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:26:18 +0100 (BST) >>>Subject: SETI Redux De Lux >>>I've been re-thinking my attitide towards SETI recently and >>>wonder if it's time for a revision. Me'thinks it might be. >>>We knock Uncle Seth because he won't acknowledge the evidence >>>that we profer and as far as he is concerned, there has been >>>absolutely no proof of ET visitation here on Earth. Why do we >>>blindly criticise him for that? How inane are we? Turkeys are >>>not usually in the habit of voting for Christmas and any such >>>philosophical wobbling on Seth's part will possibly >>>compromise Paul Allen's funding. You might well accuse him >>>of scientific dishonesty but even if that were true, he >>>wouldn't be alone. And he has a point; namely we can't >>>produce the absolute proof he asks for. We can show him a >>>very strong possibility but we can't show him absolute proof. >>No - he has the bully mainstream pulpit in the weaker >>evidentiary position and he uses it to discount the stronger, >>braver, more expansive, and finally, _richer_ evidentiary >>position. Please pardon the hyperbole, but may the vermin of a >>thousand camels infest his scrotal area. >Hyperbole? I see no hyperbole. But that camel image Alfred. Did >your eyes water when you wrote that? Well, yes... it did at that. But that can be _predicted_ when you put ammonia in a beaker with chlorine bleach. Finally, hyperbole is defined as anything over 753 camels, so at 1000 camels I'm well into hyperbole's territory. >>>Did you, btw, catch 'that word' in the above paragraph? >>>"Scientific". There, I've said it. We drone on and on about >>>how science ignores us and there are plenty of folk on this > >>List who will retire happily to their graves in the >>>knowledge that science has at last turned its head in our >>>direction, except that it has with SETI and still we moan. >>>Maybe it's the wrong sort of science? Maybe we're only >>>interested in science that agrees with us before any >>>investigation has begun? >>Mainstream science is not remotely scientific with regard to >>UFO. This is pointed out by many respected names past and >>present. Moreover, few bemoan SETI *success* such as it is. >>It's the pandering after and celebration of the attentions of >>a gutless, convenient, complacent, and corporate system >>chapping folks nether regions, I suspect. The front man's >>going to be the front man for everything good and bad. Look >>at the idiot prince GWB. >You seem to be obsessed with genitalia today Alfred. May I ask >why? And, if I read you right, you appear to be complaining >about the fact that SETI are better at PR than we are. There's >an easy answer to that one. A _gentleman_ would have refrained from noticing, Stuart. That said, Americans are well known for their obsessions with their denied genitals and I am in an 8.5 step program attempting to come to grips with same. Oooops! There, I did it again... but I _am_ getting better. Finally, SETI is better at PR only because mainstream scientists are a cowardly lot with their adipose heads buried in their flaccid bums... Uh-oh, was that another one? Better ring up my "Nad-Anon" rep for coffee. >>>It might also be worth reminding the List, because it's easy >>to forget, that Seth and his colleagues are trying to do >>>exactly what we are trying to do. We have the same aims! >>>Ergo it naturally follows, as in any scientific discipline, > >>that we should therefore be at each others throats. >>Then tell him to put his hands down, knock off the big arm >>movements, or quit facilitating his senseless (_if_ >>'believable') ufological derision. Has he ever read Richard >>Hall, Jerry Clark, or Peter Sturrock? I suspect not. We know >>he's read his Kal Korff... Moreover, bully pulpit or no, his >>is the weaker dog in the fight. Maybe he shouldn't arbitrarily >>run with the big evidentiary dogs. >He's just doing his best, as he sees it, for his and SETI's >interests. And I am doing my best, as I see it, for my own. >>>We could just try growing up a bit. >>Or calling a spade a spade and giving as good as we get. >>Outrage is not _necessarily_ immaturity, _me_'thinks. >I meant burying the hatchet (no, not in his head) and maybe >making sweet talk. I suggest we unite with them! Combined, we'd >flush any lurking alien out of his bolt hole and get him to fess >up instantly. You know, I suspect that ufology would have been proud to share a fox-hole - wiping an abruptly sweaty brow - with SETIology, but for SETIology's penchant for urinating on ufology's ammunition. Given the attitude of smirking SETIologists, though, and that they would choose to cite Korff, et al, over Hall, Clark, and Sturrock, they bring their adumbration upon themselves. It is not imposed. As to flushing aliens from Bolt-holes - hey - now _that_ was not fair - who _knows_ what such a co-operation might provoke. >>>Give Uncle Seth a cyber slap on the back and wish him well >>>next time you see him on the box instead of the usual booing >>>and hissing, and tell him to get the job done quickly. Who >>>cares which way we find out, as long we eventually do. >>Well - considering his behavior, shtick, and track-record he's >>easy to boo and hiss at. Maybe he could try to be less boo- >>hissable. >It's true Sir, he's not the most loveable of individuals. Smug, >unimaginative, condescending etc. Why don't you invite him to >come stay with you for a short while and then, when enjoying the >no doubt impressive hospitality in the Lehmberg household, he >might be smitten by your enthusiasm and your concern for his >sexual organs and might be persuaded to cast a more sympathetic >eye in the direction of Ufology? Forgetting for a moment that wishing the vermin of _over_ 753 camels on a person's bumpy-bits _hardly_ qualifies as concern for those bumpy-bits ... he's welcome anytime. >>Concept disapproved at this station - resubmit in 30-days for >>final disapproval. <g> > >I've come back sooner! I'm convinced we're making ourselves look >silly. We need to correct this. A suggestion to arbitrarily forgive transgressions _still_ being prosecuted from an illegitimate bully-pulpit seems sillier to me. I submit that the ball of correction you allude to still bounces on _his_ side of the court.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 17 Unreliability Of Gravitational Constant From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:53:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:34:28 -0400 Subject: Unreliability Of Gravitational Constant Forwarding permission was given by William R. Corliss Source: Science Frontiers - No. 161, Sep-Oct 2005, p. 4 http://www.science-frontiers.com Physics Unreliability of the gravitational constant P. Spolter has been tracking the vicissitudes of the gravitational constant, which is science's least-constant constant. Some of the problems of the big G (G as in F = Gm[sub]1m[sub]2/r[super]2) are as follows: [Note: I don't have special characters or symbols in my applications. -TWC] (1) G varies with orientation. (2) G varies about 0.054% per sidereal day; i.e., every 23.89 hours. (3) Measurements of G in mineshafts, bore holes in the Greenland ice cap, and the abyssal ocean vary consistently from predictions from Newton's Law (the equation given above). (4) In 1986 the recommended value of G was 6.67259 +/- 0.00085 x 10[super]-11 m[super]3kg[super]-1s[super]-2. The 1998 value: 6.673 +/- 0.010. The uncertainty had increased by over a factor of ten in 2 years! (Spolter, Pari; "Problems with the Gravitational Constant," *Infinite Energy*, 10:39, no. 59, 2005) Comment. Mark that the force of gravitation is incompatible with quantum mechanics. It therefore stymies efforts to attain the physicists' Nirvana of a Unified Theory of Everything.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:13:10 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:36:17 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Ledger >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:50:57 -0500 >Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:03:23 +0100 (BST) >>Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:29:39 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:26:18 +0100 (BST) >>>>Subject: SETI Redux De Lux <snip> None of my business, but consider this. If SETI makes contact, or in reality receives a signal that is recognized as intelligent, then SETI is ecstatic and we say, "There... told ya." and we continue on with our thing with more evidence to fuel the ETH for the existence of these anomalies in our skies, seas or even bedrooms. If, instead, we are able to prove [yeah I know] the ETH first, then SETI scientists are out of a job. Neither you Al, nor Stuart should remain cock-sure of your positions.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:27:26 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:44:34 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:58:20 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:44:42 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >Then it will be >important to know whether these are starfolks or homeboys trying >to assume starfolk identities as they seem to be doing now. >Couldn't the concern aliens seem to have with our environmental >neglect and our nuclear weapons be a result of sharing the same >living space? I don't dismiss the notion that we may be dealing (at least to some extent) with "homeboys" pretending to be from outer space. I'm open to the idea of other civilizations beginning on Earth prior to our own appearance, and I'm open to the idea that they might not necessarily have had to been human - species like some of the raptors are good candidates here (the 'age of reptiles' occurred long before us and lasted longer). If Chris Styles is monitoring this List and cares to get involved, he knows I've long and often discussed with him the exact concern you've expressed - that the UFOnauts seem to be unduly worried about our environment, as if they are dependent upon it. He will tell you that I'm constantly saying that 'they' (or some contingent 'they' are involved with here, may originate from this planet. But unlike Ed, I don't have my mind made up. I don't have 'beliefs' yet! I recognize there are many possibilities and I remain open-minded on the subject until the evidence comes down hard one way or the other. Although I strongly disagree that Ed could know the creature is a monotreme, and know anything at all about its civilization or technology, simply from watching a film, I _do_ remain open to the idea of other earlier civilizations from Earth, especially ones that were contacted and assisted by ET in the distant past. Ed should be as equally open to the ideas of interstellar travel instead of making such definite pronouncements that such star to star travel isn't possible. I quote below from my article in the proceedings of the 'MUFON First Annual Canadian UFO Symposium' (page 50) held in Dartmouth, NS on September 18, 2004 which shows my 'openness' to the idea of earlier Earth-evolved technological civilizations. "The bottom line is that the extraterrestrial hypothesis has _not_ been proven to be the solution to the UFO enigma and it is still too early to make any conclusion as to its validity. It may indeed be completely valid but we have not yet reached the point where we can say that UFOs are definitely the product, especially a technological product, of an ET civilization. To underscore this point, show me the evidence, or even just a small portion of the evidence, that clearly and incontrovertibly demonstrates UFOs are technologically advanced craft made by beings originating in another planetary system as opposed to being manufactured by another race of sentients from our own planet. Even if we accept that UFOs are nuts and bolts advanced vehicles produced and piloted by flesh and blood entities that are not Homo sapiens, where is the evidence that proves these folk come from outer space and are not simply another intelligent species evolved by Earth? There is none! Statements such as, "There's no fossil records!" or "There hasn't been enough time!" are, to be blunt, meaningless. They in no way or by any degree of stretching can serve as evidence. Our knowledge of how long it takes to evolve an intelligent species dosen't exist (we have only one source of reference - ourselves) and we certainly don't have a complete picture of evolution on this planet. Case closed when it comes to whether or not the ET hypothesis has been proven!" >If we limit ourselves to a Newtonian universe, we'll never get >from here to there. But it has become increasingly clear to >physicists that there is a lot more going on in this universe >than Newton ever dreamed. Indeed! Newton's physics works well enough when describing 'the very large moving very slow' just like the relativity physics of Einstein works well enough for describing 'the very large moving very fast.' But when when you have 'the very small moving very fast' then neither the physics of Newton or Einstein is adequate to describe things, and that's where 'quantum' physics comes in. The current state of things in our universe may seem to need three different physics to describe all conditions but, if you go backwards in time to just after the alleged 'big bang' (when the size of the entire universe was extremely, extremely small) all three of these apparently seperate realms existed in a unified state - and you therefore need a physics to describe conditions as they existed immediately after the big bang. Thus, general relativity and quantum physics, must and will, at some point become unified - they will be tied together. (Recent developments in 'superstring theory' are promising, although 'superstrings' is more of a philosophy right now due to the difficulty of taking measurements as small as are needed to prove its validity.) So, as Bob points out, we don't live in a Newtonian universe. We don't even live in Einstein's universe. The physics used to define these two universes each represent descriptions of only a limited slice of the total universe. Indications are the 'real' universe is a place that laughs at the limitations of Newton and Einstein. >There are only two scenarios - as far as I know - for the >falling leaf motion: >a) a nearly weightless plane-body falling under gravity and >being acted on by air pressure - the _real_ falling leaf >b) a body (of any mass) with artificial inertia field which will >'balance' itself against Earth "gravity" - resulting in apparent >'falling leaf motion' >Because _real_ falling leaves could not move laterally for any >significant distance at any significant speed, and because >reports are often of fast moving bodies traveling long >distances, I think the second scenario is most probable. Yes, and the electromagnetic effects noted in a lot of UFO events, maybe even the vehicle interference effects such as documented by Mark Rodeghier, may indicate manipulation of EM fields to accomplish such trajectories, as well as a possible quantum jump through space-time. It's interesting that superstring 'theory' paints gravitation as electromagnetism acting through higher dimensions. (Electromagnetism manifests with an electric vector and a magnetic vector; each of these vectors manifest in their own plane - at right angles to each other. Gravitation simply might be electromagnetism with a third, or more, plane(s) caused as it twists through higher dimensions.) Going back to the Lorentz transformations and special relativity, brought up by Ed to support his notion that interstellar travel is impossible, it may be that these tend to more _prove_ than disprove the possibility of star to star travel. Special relativity predicts that as the speed of light is approached time slows down (time dilation effect) and as you go faster and faster, time slows more and more - until at the speed of light time stops. But it also predicts that, in the direction of travel, the dimension of length contracts - until at the speed of light there is no length (tantamount to 'zero distance'). Thus, you seem forced into conditions of 'zero time, zero distance' at a certain velocity. Since the resistance to acceleration (inertia) is the property of gravitation obversely applied and the mass increase occurs as a result of the expenditure of energy to overcome an object's inertia, the Lorentz transformations and special relativity may be saying that when you overcome the 'drag' caused by gravitation (attractive force existing between all matter) - when you overcome this 'drag' one-hundred percent - you are free to move through the universe of the 'quanta' where there is no time and no space. It's like a hugh empty room that has a strong narrow rod going from one corner near the ceiling to the opposite corner near the foor. On that narrow rod, a small bead with a whole in its center is threaded along the rod. The bead has freedom of movement only along the rod and cannot access any of the vast free space within the room; it's forced to move along a certain restricted route. But break the rod and the bead can move wherever it wants, via whatever route. Gravitation may be like a rod that keeps matter from enjoying the freedom of the room. But matter in our universe is not like a bead in a room full of air! According to quantum physics, matter is not made of ping pong balls floating in an ocean that's seperate from the ping pong balls. Rather, each subatomic particle is more like a ripple on the surface of that ocean. All subatomic particles are ripples on the surface of that ocean. The important thing is: the ocean is a single body of water and the ripples on its surface aren't seperate from it - the ripples are just the contour of its surface; it's just where energy or force has pushed (molded) the water into certain shapes. The ocean has the 'ability' to take whatever shape it 'wants' - to flatten out a ripple here while it's simultaneously creating a similiar ripple hundreds of miles away. If your physics just describes the ripples, you're dealing with a very limited slice of the ocean and you can't use it to define what goes on in the entire ocean - and the ocean certainly isn't limited by what your 'physics of ripples' lays down. Clinging to the physics of Newton and Einstein to disprove the impossibility of interstellar travel is the same as using
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 18 Re: Response to the Space Review - Kimball From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:08:31 EDT Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:52:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Response to the Space Review - Kimball >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:31:01 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:45:58 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review I've tried to stay out of the Updates debates lately, but I can't let this one pass. Rich first: <snip> >>Ufologists are so righteous (see Paul Kimball's attack on Frank >>Warren at various UFO blogs) that they scare away those who less >>inclined to be incendiary. The column Rich refers to, which can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/a4pye reads as follows: --- "It's good to see that little has changed in the world of ufology during my travels over the past three weeks. Ufologists of the "It's ET" bent routinely accuse the "mainstream news media" of framing stories in a certain way, i.e. in an anti-UFO way. And of course, the government is covering up the truth about ET. That the media sometimes skewers its reports, on any number of subjects, is not a big surprise to anyone, just as it is a fact that the government has been less than forthcoming about what it has on UFOs over the years (a fact that does not necessarily support the conclusion of a grand cover-up of ET). When they do so, it's wrong, short of any legitimate national security reasons. But the pro-ET faction of ufology (those intrepid "alternative" news types) can sometimes be just as bad. For example, there's Frank Warren. Now, Frank is, as far as I can tell, a decent guy, and I think he means well, and we usually get along, but sometimes he goes too far, and lets his belief in ET interfere with the facts. Take today, for example, at his blog, Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est. Headline: "Clinton Admits Investigating Area 51" See: http://tinyurl.com/a4pye Frank writes: "Former President Bill Clinton addressed the CLSA's Investor Forum in Hong Kong last Monday; in post session the moderator as well as the crowd in attendance posed questions to him. When asked about 'secrets being passed from president to president the topic of UFOs surfaced, Clinton said: 'Well I don't know if you all heard this, but, there was actually, when I was president in my second term, there was an anniversary observance of Roswell. Remember that? People came to Roswell, New Mexico from all over the world. And there was also a site in Nevada where people were convinced that the government had buried a UFO and perhaps an alien deep underground because we wouldn't allow anybody to go there. And uhm... I can say now, 'cause it's now been released into the public domain... This place in Nevada was really serious, that there was an alien artifact there. So I actually sent somebody there to figure it out.'" Wow. Reading that, it makes it sound like there really was something to Area 51 after all. After all, it was "really serious," and "there was an alien artifact there." Except that's not what Clinton actually said. Frank added a "..." with the result that he left out a VERY important part of the quote (presumably, he did this on purpose). Clinton _actually_ said (see http://tinyurl.com/9jhcd): "And there was also a site in Nevada where people were convinced that the government had buried a UFO and perhaps an alien deep underground because we wouldn't want anybody to go there. And, uhm... I can say now, 'cause it's now been released into the public domain. [I had so many people in my own administration that were convinced that Roswell was a fraud but] this place in Nevada was really serious, that there was an alien artifact there. So I actually sent somebody there to figure it out. [And it was actually just a secret defence installation, alas, doing boring work that we didn't want anybody else to see."] [I have placed in brackets the part that Frank conveniently left out - PK] Thus, what Clinton really said was (I have again placed in brackets the parts that Frank's selective quotation leaves unsaid): a. [most people in his administration considered Roswell a "fraud"]; b. they thought there might be something to the Area 51 stories; c. Clinton sent someone to investigate; and d. [Area 51 has nothing to do with aliens - instead it was just doing secret work that the government wanted to keep secret.] Now, there is nothing wrong with shortening someone's quoted remarks, so long as you do not alter the meaning of what they said. And yet, by leaving out the portions noted above, this is exactly what Frank did. Which leads us to the title he's chosen for his blog. "Nam et ipsa scienta potestas est" It's from Religious Meditations. Of Heresies by Francis Bacon. Translated from Latin, it means: "Knowledge itself is power." Indeed it is. Full knowledge, however - not selective knowledge that alters the meaning of something, or leaves a false impression, just to make your case stronger. It's wrong when the government does it, and it's just as wrong when a ufologist does it. Somewhere, Bacon is spinning in his grave. --- Check out the comments section to see the debate that ensued, including how Frank chose to respond. Both Frank in his response, and Rich, totally missed the point, which was contained in the following sentences at the beginning of the article: "That the media sometimes skewers its reports, on any number of subjects, is not a big surprise to anyone, just as it is a fact that the government has been less than forthcoming about what it has on UFOs over the years (a fact that does not necessarily support the conclusion of a grand cover-up of ET). When they do so, it's wrong, short of any legitimate national security reasons. But the pro-ET faction of ufology (those intrepid "alternative" news types) can sometimes be just as bad." In hindsight, I would have extended that analogy to include some ufologists. My point was that it's just as wrong when ufologists misrepresent the facts as it is if and when the government and the media do it. I call it the Ghost of Bill Moore, and it's still alive. >>Keyhoe was like that, bless him. No, he wasn't, which just goes to show that you don't know a thing about Keyhoe. Fortunately, I had the pleasure of spending a few hours with Dick Hall this past week in Washington, a man who does know what Keyhoe was like, unlike all the poseurs lately who seem to want to claim him as their own. <snip> Now, Mr. Lehmberg: >Take your lessons from Maj. Keyhoe, as Mr. Kimball doesn't >scare anyone but himself. Oh, puh-lease - only you think that anyone who disagrees with you is trying to "scare" people. The truth is that you and those like you are the real fear-mongers, Mr. Lehmberg. "Be afraid," you counsel breathlessly, "be afraid of our governments, our history, even yourself." You thrive on people's fear, under the guise of enlightening them. You appeal to the worst in people, not the best. You and your ilk are not trying to persuade them; you're trying to convert them, and you'll say, or do, whatever you have to in order to do it. Like misrepresent what a person does for a living, and flame them all over the Internet for having the temerity to offer an opinion that is different from your own. You don't want a discussion - you want a soliloquy. In that respect, you have much in common with the late Phil Klass.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 18 Grass Valley Filmmaker Looks At UFO Phenomenon From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:06:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:06:07 -0400 Subject: Grass Valley Filmmaker Looks At UFO Phenomenon Source: KXTV-TV Channel 10 - Sacramento, California, USA http://www.news10.net/storyfull2.aspx?storyid=13153 Grass Valley Filmmaker Looks At UFO Phenomenon Written for the web by Bob Montgomery Internet News Producer Something happened in the skies above Phoenix on the night of March 13, 1997. Thousands of witnesses reported seeing a set of mysterious lights moving through the darkness. The official statement was that the lights were just flares, used by the military to light up the Barry Goldwater Firing Range at night. Grass Valley film producer Steve Lantz doesn�t buy it. "First of all, there were over 10,000 witnesses," said Lantz. "They were looking up to see the Hale-Bopp Comet that night, so that was the reason you had an extraordinary number of witnesses outside looking up. As they put it, it was like there was a whole parade [of lights] that went over the entire state. That kind of kills the flare theory because flares aren�t going to fly over an entire state." Lantz also points to a lab analysis of the lights that finds them unique. "We may not know what they are but what we do know is that they don't match any known light source," he said. "So it's a real mystery in that sense." Lantz has been interested in UFOs and the UFO phenomenon since he was 12 years old and first saw the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." Ever since then he's been keenly interested in documentaries on the subject and believes the more you get into it, the more you can get past all the skepticism. "You start to see things that are really hard to deny," he said. What really convinced Lantz about the Phoenix Lights, however, was meeting Dr. Lynne Kitei. She saw the lights, then photographed and videotaped them. "She got a real close look at them and she said even after they disappeared she still had a sense that there was something there, watching." Lantz and Kitei decided this was a story that, although covered extensively by the media, had only been explored in a superficial way. They wanted the opportunity to delve deeper into the mystery. That was the genesis of their documentary film "The Phoenix Lights." Kitei wrote the script and interviewed the witnesses, while, working with practically no budget, Lantz shot the movie, edited it, did the special effects work, and even composed and played the music. "She and I paid for this out of our pockets because we felt it was just too important," said Lantz. "It needed to be told and also we were able to keep creative control over this because it was just the two of us." The movie played at the New York International Film and Video Festival where Steve was named Best Director and is also an official selection of the upcoming Los Angeles International Film and Video Festival. Lantz says the purpose of the film is not really to change people's minds. "I don�t expect to really convince anyone of anything," he said. "I think I just want people to open their eyes a little bit and rather than just dismiss it, look at it more seriously." - Steve Lantz Productions:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 UFOs Above Loughton From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:58:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:58:23 -0400 Subject: UFOs Above Loughton Source: This Is Local London.Com http://tinyurl.com/9a2t4 Saturday 17th September 2005 UFOs Above Loughton By Guardian-series Loughton was visited by aliens in bright triangular orbs on Saturday night or so some residents believe. Lit, flying objects were reported in the sky over the town at around 9pm. Shelley Ginn, 17, of Barfields Gardens said: "I was sitting in the front room with my mum, when my brother came in and told us about these strange things in the sky. "We went to see what they were, and watched them from the window for about an hour. During that time, about seven of our neighbours were out watching them as well." Miss Ginn said that she was unsure what the objects were, but said they were moving too quickly to be planes. She said: "They were lit, orangey objects moving at real speed across the sky. They disappeared and re-appeared a lot, and there were about ten in total." Saturday evening saw patchy cloud, but Miss Ginn said that although she was no expert, it was an extremely strange sight. She described the lights as "phenomenal" and "extremely bright". A report on international website ufoinfo.com described a "triangular formation of reddish/orange lights" and said they were orb-shaped. The website also noted that they made no noise, unlike aircraft, which can clearly be heard on the ground when passing over residential areas. A similar sighting was made in Epping in March this year, but it turned out that the floating objects were Thai lanterns that had been released at a wedding. Miss Ginn said that this had been mentioned to her as a possible explanation by a neighbour. She added: "It was like nothing I've ever seen before totally weird." ----- Video here:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Mothman - Myth or Reality? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:09:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:09:34 -0400 Subject: Mothman - Myth or Reality? Source: WTAP-TV`- Parkersburg, West Virginia, USA http://www.wtap.com/news/headlines/1724261.html Sept 19, 2005 Mothman: Myth or Reality? WTAP News Amber Davison Standing at seven feet tall, the Mothman was first sighted in the TNT area of Mason County in November of 1966. The story goes... Two couples were chased by the Mothman to their car. There were numerous sightings after that and also several UFO sightings. On December 15, 1967, the most devastating disaster this small community has ever seen: The Silver Bridge collapse, where 46 people lost their lives. After that, the Mothman sightings stopped in Mason County, and many believe the creature had something to do with the bridge tragedy. Be it legend or reality, thousands of curious travelers came to Point Pleasant this weekend for the 4th Annual Mothman Festival. "It's a big weekend. It brings in a lot of money, it fills up the hotels in Point and Gallipolis. The restaurants do great business, the gift shops... We even had a river boat in today too," Denny Bellamy, Mason County Tourism Director, says. Organizers say the event gets bigger every year. And much of the interest can be accredited to the 2002 movie "Mothman Prophecies" starring Richard Gere. The city of Point Pleasant has received many of the props from the movie: including the telephone in Gere's hotel room, the bridge cable from the Silver Bridge scene, and a menu from the diner in the movie modeled after a real downtown restaurant. For more information about the Mothman... Visit
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 The Martians Are Coming! The Martians Are Coming! From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:16:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:16:45 -0400 Subject: The Martians Are Coming! The Martians Are Coming! Source: The Science Museum - London, UK http://tinyurl.com/cjust 23/08/2005 Press Releases The Martians are coming! The Martians are coming! =46rom life on other planets to mankind's obsession with extra- terrestrials on Earth=82 the Dana Centre in London - the Science Museum's bar and caf=E9 annex for adults to discuss contemporary science - is launching a series of debates exploring alien life. Enthusiasm for extra-terrestrial life has perplexed and intrigued humans since the civilisations of ancient Egypt and Babylon. But why are we so fascinated by aliens? What can life on Earth tell us about how life on other planets might evolve? Where do we get our ideas about aliens and why do we believe them? Is there intelligent life out there? If so=82 will we ever make contact? Experts at Alien: Evolution=82 Intrigue and Contact include Nick Pope=82 author of 'Open Skies=82 Closed Minds' and Doug Vakoch=82 Director of Interstellar Message Composition at SETI. Alien: Evolution=82 Intrigue and Contact launches on Tuesday 11 October and is part of a season of Alien themed events=82 debates and comedy nights at the Dana Centre. The series is running in conjunction with the Science Museum's major new exhibition The Science of Aliens=82exploring the line between what we think and what we know about alien life=82 in a quest to answer the eternal question - are we alone?' Alien: Evolution=82 Intrigue and Contact=B7 Date: Tuesday 11 October=82 Wednesday 26 October and Tuesday 1 November- Time: 19.00-20.30 (doors open at 17.00 for food and drink) Venue: The Science Museum's Dana Centre=82 165 Queens Gate=82 London SW7 5HE=B7 Tube: Gloucester Road=B7 Tickets are FREE but must be pre-booked on: 020 7942 4040 or tickets.nul=B7 The Dana Centre is for over 18's only- The Science of Aliens exhibition opens on 14 October. For information visit www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/aliens Alien Evolution=82 Tuesday 11 October=82 19.00-20.30 (in association with Channel 4) How special is our planet? What can life on Earth tell us about the possible evolution of extra-terrestrials? Could there be life on Mars or a moon of Jupiter=82 and what life forms might evolve on planets around other stars? Alien Evolution explores how life might evolve on other planets. Audience members are invited to discuss with speakers from the Channel 4 documentary 'Extraterrestrial' whether the conditions for life on earth are unique=82 if life could also exist on planets quite different from our own and what such life might be like. The audience will vote on whether they think life on other planets would resemble life on Earth or be more unusual and debate what implications this knowledge would have for our own evolution. Alien Intrigue=82 Wednesday 26 October=82 19.00-20.30 Why are we so fascinated by the concept of extra-terrestrial life? Why do many people believe that we have been visited by aliens? Do our ideas about aliens stem from science fiction or the folklore of fairies and monsters? Are they a psychological projection of human hopes and fears? Or is our interest in a world outside our own an inbuilt phenomenon? Alien Intrigue explores the significance of the concept of 'aliens' in mankind's history=82 culture and psychology and the emotional and imaginative themes associated with 'aliens'. Audience members are invited to examine what we perceive as alien and what gives us these perceptions. Pre-conceptions about extra-terrestrials will be challenged with explanations of ideas about aliens from history=82 culture and psychology. Speakers include: - Chris French=82 Head of Anomolistic Psychology Research Unit at Goldsmith's College=82 London=82 will speak about the psychology of alien abduction experiences=82 their similarity to other paranormal phenomena such as ghosts and their physical grounding in sleep paralysis. - Reverend Neil Hook=82 Senior Lecturer in Science: Fiction & Culture at the Centre for Astronomy and Science Education=82 Glamorgan will discuss how science fiction may have influenced our interest and belief in aliens=82 and whether such belief might have a religious element. - Nick Pope=82 Author of 'Open Skies=82 Closed Minds'=82 MOD employee and UFO believer=82 will talk about unresolved UFO sighting and alien abduction mysteries=82 why they fascinate people and why people believe they are caused by aliens. Alien Contact=82 Tuesday 1 November=82 19.00-20.30 Is there intelligent alien life somewhere out there or are we all alone in the universe? Will we ever make contact with such life? If it exists=82 why have we not been contacted already? What would happen if we did make contact? Alien Contact debates whether intelligent alien life exists=82 and if it does=82 whether we will ever make contact with it. Speakers will focus on the attempts of SETI to receive radio broadcasts to alien life forms=82 and debate why such attempts have been so far unsuccessful. Audience members can vote on whether they believe that intelligent life exists and discuss why it has failed to make contact with us and what would happen if contact were achieved. Speakers include: - Doug Vakoch=82 Director of Interstellar Message Composition at SETI will speak about the basic principles of SETI and possible means of communications with extra-terrestrials - Mark Brake=82 Science & Science Fiction lecturer=82 University of Glamorgan=82 will discuss whether we will make contact with extra- terrestrials and argues that aliens may have an intelligence that we do not recognise Notes to Editors 1 The Dana Centre is a collaboration between the Science Museum=82 the BA (British Association for the Advancement of Science) and The European Dana Alliance for the Brain (EDAB) making it unrivalled in its expertise and depth of knowledge of scientific and technological fields. The Centre is housed in the Wellcome Wolfson Building alongside the headquarters of the BA=82 EDAB and Science Museum offices. 2 The =A39.8 million building has been provided by four major benefactors =96 the Wellcome Trust=82 the Wolfson Foundation=82 The Dana Foundation and the Garfield Weston Foundation. 3 The Science Museum exists to promote the public understanding of the history and contemporary practice of science=82 medicine=82 technology and industry. It aims to inspire=82 educate and involve visitors. It achieves this by building=82 researching and caring for the national collections; and by interpreting these collections and engaging the public in the contemporary issues they raise. 4 The BA is the UK's nationwide=82 open membership organisation dedicated to connecting science with people=82 so that science and its applications become accessible to all. The BA aims to promote openness about science in society and to engage and inspire people directly with science and technology and their implications. 5 The goal of EDAB is to inform the general public and decision makers about the importance of brain research. EDAB aims to advance knowledge about the personal and public benefits of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:03:17 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:21:04 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Reynolds >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:28:40 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:32:31 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>From: Kevin Seeger <seeger.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:02:07 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >><snip> >>>Everybody who thinks ufology is filled with nutcases should >>>spend a year on this List. >>To prove that ufology is filled with nutcases? >>Rich Reynolds >So now I'm a nut-case, Rich? >Don Ledger Don:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 08:32:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:24:06 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Lehmberg >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:13:10 -0300 >Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:50:57 -0500 >>Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:03:23 +0100 (BST) >>>Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:29:39 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>>>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>>>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:26:18 +0100 (BST) >>>>>Subject: SETI Redux De Lux ><snip> >None of my business, but consider this. If SETI makes >contact, or in reality receives a signal that is recognized as >intelligent, then SETI is ecstatic and we say, "There... told >ya." and we continue on with our thing with more evidence to >fuel the ETH for the existence of these anomalies in our skies, >seas or even bedrooms. >If, instead, we are able to prove [yeah I know] the ETH first, >then SETI scientists are out of a job. Neither you Al, nor >Stuart should remain cock-sure of your positions. Point taken, my friend, forgetting no apologies are ever needed from you, of few. But how "cock-sure of my position" can I be if you and I are in such total agreement on the point you made here. It remains that Dr. Shostak is not acting remotely like a scientist, shoots cheap from abject ignorance on the entire subject, and otherwise begs the eye-watering 1000 camel curses he earns from me. I don't create the good Doctor. The good Doctor creates me. With his obstinance. With his reactionary ignorance. With his sneering denial. With his disembling argumentation. With his ponderous lack of repect for persons braver than he is... I could go on. Still, I'd say give him, and his, every chance on their self- admitted 'longshot' <g>. Just give me the same consideration on, comparatively? An abundant, and what you _yourself_ know to be abundant _certainty_..... D.RITDFFD! <g>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shell From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 10:29:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:25:51 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shell >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 15:27:26 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia <snip> >Clinging to the physics of Newton and Einstein to disprove the >impossibility of interstellar travel is the same as using >'ripple physics' to describe the ocean. Elegantly stated, Eugene! I believe that when the true unifying theory does come along, physicists everywhere will be slapping their foreheads and mumbling, "Now why didn't I think of that?" The rest of us will just be gobsmacked by its simplicity. And the whole universe will suddenly "make sense". To think that no one has gotten there before us in this is sheer arrogance. Remember, it wasn't too long ago that many scientists were absolutely convinced that breaking the sound barrier was impossible. Much of what we take for granted today in our lives would seem like magick* to someone living 200 years ago.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:33:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:33:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Reynolds >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:08:31 EDT >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:31:01 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:45:58 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >I've tried to stay out of the Updates debates lately, but I >can't let this one pass. ><snip> >>>Ufologists are so righteous (see Paul Kimball's attack on Frank >>>Warren at various UFO blogs) that they scare away those who less >>>inclined to be incendiary. My dear buddy, Paul: I won't rehash or input here your ruminations about Frank Warren's ellipsised quotes from Clinton. The matter has been blog-bloated beyond recognition already. I just want to note that Frank Warren is a good guy. He posted some material from Clinton that he chose to highlight by using said ellipsis. This caused you some pique, and you were right to vent that pique at your blog and here. But in so doing you left and are leaving the impression that Frank is a no-gooder and you infer he was deceitful in his Clinton post. That's the rub. And you were a little incensed because Frank would not apologize for the wrong-doing you (and a few other ufological malcontents) perceived. Frank Warren is no Bill Moore, by a long shot. And you know that. My defense, and Alfred Lehmberg's defense, and Stuart Miller's defense of Frank is based on not just bonhommie but, rather, the fact of Frank's credible longevity in the study of UFOs. That he used ellipsis in his Clinton post is a legitimate grammatical device, used by major writers and reporters who are not trying to deceive but to make a point using ellipsis for accenting their point. Frank provided the whole Clinton material, not hiding it from view, but you see his blog post as misrepresentation of some kind, to extol Frank's alleged ET bias. Frank Warren can do what he wants, in America, and you in Canada can disparage his technique. But don't make out that Frank is a bad guy. He's not, and almost everyone reading UpDates knows that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:34:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:38:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Lehmberg >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:08:31 EDT >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:31:01 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:45:58 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >I've tried to stay out of the Updates debates lately, but I >can't let this one pass. Pity. <snip> >Now, Mr. Lehmberg: >>Take your lessons from Maj. Keyhoe, as Mr. Kimball doesn't >>scare anyone but himself. >Oh, puh-lease - only you think that anyone who disagrees with >you is trying to "scare" people. Oh puh-lease - The only people who really scare other people are those who _won't_ agree , right wrong or indifferent, because they lack imagination, insist on the narrowest possible focus, and reserve 'correctness' for just themselves. You're swinging the brush, Sir. I'm just reminding you where the paint won't go. That's the real problem here. Wear a cup. >The truth is that you and those >like you are the real fear-mongers, Mr. Lehmberg. Right. Maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, Mr. Kimball, but, just as an example, the LA dead are going to be processed by a mortuary service that _fed_ the corpses of persons who'd spent their whole _lives_ avoiding pork... ...to feral hogs. "Nothing to fear here citizen," you poke me with your nightstick. "Move along, move along." ...Pull back a nub of ...whatever... you poke me with, Sir. >"Be afraid," >you counsel breathlessly, "be afraid of our governments, our >history, even yourself." That about sums it up! Good cameo! Minus the "breathless" part... I'm pretty strong on the subject. Our history is a self- aggrandizing sham, out government, at least mine, in an illegitimate fraud, I suspect, and we need to fear even ourselves if we can help install thieves, thugs, charlatans, and worse... in leadership positions. >You thrive on people's fear, under the >guise of enlightening them. I write my conscience, support my friends, and aspire to grace, Mr. Kimball. I'll leave it to you to "enlighten the people." And tell me that's not what _you're_ about. It called projection, sir. Maybe a little reaction formation too, eh? That said? Booga... booga, booga! >You appeal to the worst in people, not the best. Wow! Partisanship by any other name just smells, but that would have been my, albeit politely, _non-stated_ charge with regard to you and _your_ approach. But that too predictable, eh? >You and your ilk are not trying to persuade them; >you're trying to convert them, and you'll say, or do, whatever >you have to in order to do it. More projection? Say, _whatever_ I have to say? Deliberately mislead, lie... misdirect? Prosecute a dodgy cant. Facilitate a bias? Be incapable of admitting error, perhaps? Champion the authoritarian at the expense of the authoritative, maybe? _My_ way or the highway, with nothing further _left_ to say? Hmmm! I don't think we're discussing _me_ any longer. I'll leave it to the patient reader who we, now, _might_ be talking about. >Like misrepresent what a person does for a living, You are a lawyer, Sir. Trained as a lawyer you must forever after think like a lawyer... I looked it up. It's in the bylaws. Moreover, I'm sure it has a lot to do with how you make your 'living' at this point in time. I keep waiting for you to move onto AAA Hockey for your next iteration of self-invention. Do you even _have_ that up there? >and flame >them all over the Internet for having the temerity to offer an >opinion that is different from your own. I'll defend my friends and speak my mind if that's what what you're on about, Mr. Kimball. Like I said. Wear a cup. >You don't want a >discussion - you want a soliloquy. ...Give me one. I'm listening. >In that respect, you have >much in common with the late Phil Klass. Now - _that_, Sir, was uncalled for. _Your_ mother wore combat boots and your father was a serial non-abuser! There! Back even. >It would be sad if it wasn't, at least on occasion, amusing. As I wrote earlier, Mr. Kimball. Be amused. Be _very_ amused. O, and while I've got your ear, I loved how you qualified the contentions of Richard Dolan on SDI last night. You can write the program for details or hear it in the archives. I've already moved on. Do try to keep up. But, perhaps you can consider giving Dolan some credit, eh? Have a _wonderful_ day.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Response To The Space Review - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:56:32 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:49:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Ledger >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:08:31 EDT >Subject: Re: Response to the Space Review >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:31:01 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:45:58 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >I've tried to stay out of the Updates debates lately, but I >can't let this one pass. >Rich first: ><snip> >>>Ufologists are so righteous (see Paul Kimball's attack on >>>Frank Warren at various UFO blogs) that they scare away >>>those who less inclined to be incendiary. >The column Rich refers to, which can be found at: >http://tinyurl.com/a4pye >reads as follows: >--- <snip> >Ufologists of the "It's ET" bent routinely accuse the >"mainstream news media" of framing stories in a certain way, >i.e. in an anti-UFO way. And of course, the government is >covering up the truth about ET. Hi Paul, The rest of what followed was between you and Al. But I have to comment on the previous paragraph. I am one of those that accuse the mainstream American media of bias when it comes to reporting on various UFO reports in their area or in general. A high percentage of them present a tongue-in-cheek report that is less than objective in its focus. Space aliens, flying saucers and little green men are sprinkled into the reports quite liberally. You don't have to look very hard to find them. I offered a Toronto Sun piece the other day about the conference there and UFOs in general that just presented fact, didn't judge anyone or take a stand in any way. That's the way it should be in my estimation. Just lay it out there and let the reader decide. That's not what the last 10 pieces, that showed up on this List, were like in the American press, many of the articles being from local papers, probably where the reporter is known to the grocer and the Knights of Columbus and would risk the the smirks and jibes of his peers. As to government cover-up I think we confuse the government with its military and intelligence arms. Clinton had to go looking? Why not? If there was something to cover up, why should they tell him? They have plenty of wiggle room in their ops budgets. They are not about to share truly sensitive information that impacts them with a bunch of politicians who can't keep their mouths shut and are basically pretty amateurish when it comes to their own dabbling in illegal activity. The military probably learned from the Iran/Contra affair and the military /political mix. You don't have to go to the public to suspect conspiracy whether by intent or by evolution. Remember Ike's warning about the military/industrial complex in his farewell speech of 1961. And this was only 16 years after the end of WW II. Finally there seems to be a bias in favor of some intelligence that has been inhabiting this planet as long as or longer than us [despite absolutely no proof] or some inter dimensional traveler intelligence now in vogue since the introduction of String Theory and the possibility of parallel universes, rather than the possibility of some extraterrestrial intelligence. What makes one more favorable than the others? What is this ETH phobia that is so prevalent amongst UFO researchers? I don't know if this phenomenon is the cause of some extraterrestrial intelligence and/or these objects are controlled by same, but if it turned out to be the case, I wouldn't be surprised by it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: Romford UK UFO Mystery Solved - Hayes From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:24:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:55:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Romford UK UFO Mystery Solved - Hayes >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:19:06 -0400 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Romford UK UFO Mystery Solved >Source: The Romford Recorder - Romford, Essex, UK >http://tinyurl.com/a248e >16 September 2005 >UFO Mystery Solved >The Recorder can now shed light on the mystery UFOs seen >in the sky last week - they were sky lanterns!! >Reports flooded into our office of lots of orange, unidentified >flying objects after the Smalley family saw the mysterious >lights floating over their home in Acacia Avenue, Elm Park, >at 10pm on Monday, August 29. <snip> I can confirm that the light seen in Hornchurch, Essex on September 12 was due to the lanterns. After initially rejecting the claim in the Romford Recorder that the light(s) seen on August 29th in Romford were sky lanterns, the witness to the Hornchurch sighting above now agrees that this is what he saw: From: http://www.ufoinfo.com/sightings/uk/050912.shtml Sorry again for emailing you, but it turns out the Romford Recorder was right. After a bit of Googling for images, I found a few images that remind me of the event. Although I still find it hard to believe that a simple sky lantern can fly around in circles, fly in different directions... etc on a windless night. anyway these image is almost EXACTLY what I saw: http://static.flickr.com/5/8530284_603fcc424c_m.jpg http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40767000/jpg/_40767481_sanitwong.jpg http://www.punahou.edu/js/gradek/f/thailink/floatinglanternsb.JPG My thanks to the witness for writing to confirm that what he saw were lanterns. Best wishes, John Hayes webmaster.nul UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:10:23 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:00:52 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Friedman >From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:58:20 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia ><snip> >>"To accelerate any mass at all to the speed of light - even a >>single electron never mind a spaceship - would take literally >>infinite energy because as you push it closer to the limit its >>own mass becomes ever greater until at light speed you'd be >>trying to push an infinite mass. This comes out of the Lorentz >>transformations of Special Relativity." (Quote from a List >>member off line) >>With this limitation in mind, I find it hard to understand why >>folks won't even consider that we might share our solar system >>with at least one other civilization and also consider that the >>creature in the alien autopsy might be one of the critters who >>at one time roamed their streets, looking for love. >Special relativity limits traditional travel to sub-light speed, >that's true. But getting fr^om one point in space time to >another point in space time by traversing the distance in >between is but one mode of moving around in this multi- >dimensional universe of ours. >There are many models that would allow getting from one >point to another without passing through the intervening space- >time. In fact, some have suggested that time travel may be >much easier and require less energy outlay than long distance >space travel. >If we limit ourselves to a Newtonian universe, we'll never get >from here to there. But it has become increasingly clear to >physicists that there is a lot more going on in this universe >than Newton ever dreamed. >And I'm not at all convinced that the entity seen in the AA film >came from somewhere else. It may have come from somewhen else. I am trying to catch up on my email after the China trip, but Ed you really need to do some homework. Three quick points: 1. The D-He3 reaction provides charged particles born with millions of electronvolts each compared to chemical reactions involving rocket propellantg that involve a few ev per reaction.. The particles do NOT need to be accelerated. They already have enormous energy and ,because they are charged, can be directed. 2. The mass increase is totally irrelevant.It is also irrelevant to the astronauts going very fast. Their scales would show them weighing the same as when they left. The frame of reference is very important. 3. Do you not understand that the rocket need not provide all the energy? We use cosmic freeloading on all our deep space probes. The Cassini spacecraft at Saturn was sent past Venus, then past Earth, and then past Jupiter getting a free kick at each location from the gravitational field near the body in question. Black holes would do as would any stars along the way. The driver has to be in the right place at the the right time. The moon pulled Apollo space craft in. The earth's rotation provided a free thousand mph at launch. The atmosphere slowed the command module down on return. Not energy supplied by the CM. Let's get real, please. Also we do not need to travel at c. 99.99%c would do fine. Also
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:20:02 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:04:39 -0400 Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux - Friedman >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:42:04 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:09:13 -0300 >>Subject: Re: SETI Redux De Lux >>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:26:18 +0100 (BST) >>>Subject: SETI Redux De Lux >>>I've been re-thinking my attitide towards SETI recently and >>>wonder if it's time for a revision. Me'thinks it might be. >><snip> >>Sorry but Seth has been unscientific and dishonest in many >>ways. >>I have listened to three of his lectures on the QE 2,(he was >>present for 2 of mine but one could never tell that) read a >>couple of his books debated with him on Coast to Coast for >>three hours. >>We do not have the same goals. >>He wants to pick up radio signals. >>I am concerned with intelligent life that is coming here. He >>says the evidence isn't strong enough. He has not examined any >>of the evidence to which I referred in lectures he heard. >>It is totally dishonest to talk about our fastest satellite >>taking 70 thousand years to get to the nearest star. It has no >>propulsion system on it and is coasting. Would throwing a >>bottle in the ocean tell you how long it takes to get across >>the ocean? Would tossing a feather in the air tell one how >>long it takes to fly around the earth? Perhaps we should use >>the speed of our fastest bicycle to tell us how long it takes >>to go from Boston to LA. >>He knows nothing about advanced nuclear propulsion systems, >>even the ones that have been ground tested. >>The SETI cultists assume there is no interstellar travel by >>anyone ever. This means any source of radio signals is where >>it has always been rather than a colony of an older >>civilization. >>He assumes that with a mere 100 years of technology behind us >>that we could use the right technology to pick up a signal >>from somebody who might be a million years or more older than >>us. >>This isn't science. It is wishful thinking. >>Terms like absolute proof don't belong in this discussion. He >>has provided not even a whit of evidence - no less proof - >>that anybody is out there sending signals that we can detect. >>We have a great deal of evidence that intelligent life is >>visiting the planet even if they don't check in with SETI. >>The emperor has no clothes. >>Check out my challenge to SETI Specialists at my website: >>http://www.stantonfriedman.com >Stan, >I'm sure you're right on all of the above. >But just try and look at it through the eyes of s disinterested >party, who has the whole shambolic debate laid out for him. >I think the term, "bunch of prats" might welll come into his >mind. >To him, the differences that are so striking and important to >you would be just nuances to him. >However finely you may want to split the hairs Stan, we are on >the same path with SETI, like it or not. And just how are "we" >going to react if they get a confirmed signal in the near >future, before the flying saucer has had a chance to land on the >White House lawn? Ignore it? No, we won't. We'll try and steal >their glory and tell the world, "We told you so". Just how will we confirm that such a signal is real? We send a response and wait for them to respond? Going to take a while won't it? Finding a signal will mean almost nothing to Earthlings except perhaps the decoders. Knowing that aliens have already been visiting, have crashed and been recoverd, have technology well beyond ours, that could be used for or against us would have enormous implications for mankind... religion, politics, economics, the military. Remember the SETI cultists say aliens haven't been here, can't get here ever,have never colonized, have never advanced their communication techniques beyond ours; and they will handle the signals for us as if they spoke for the planet.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 19 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Allan From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:01:56 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:07:27 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Allan >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:59:19 EDT >Subject: The Global UFO Cover-Up >I have no qualms about admitting if I've been wrong, or have made >a mistake. That's the first step to doing things the right way. >I've often puzzled and posted as to how in the world every >country on Earth could successfully hide all the UFO data. >How every country on Earth could easily have a crack squad of >commandos and disinformationalists at the ready whenever a UFO >event occurs. >"There's no way in heck", I'd go on, "you can tell me that every >leader, head of state etc. could keep things under their hat!" >Well, the math says differently, plus a nudge from a friend of >mine, quite noted for his worldly expertise. >The U.N. and the U.S. recognize roughly about 190-193 countries >in the world. Some fluctuate as leaderships and regimes and >governments change hands, crumble or just get taken over. >That's a small number of bodies to reach and bribe and >intimidate. >Granted most of the countries on the list have about as much >power and influence as the local pinochle club down the street, >but they do have some semblance of a leadership even if all it >is, is some guy in a garish outfit with some ridiculous title >like 'overlord president emperor for life'. >Easy pickings to pay these guys off, and for the 5 or so power >players, it would not be in their best interest to spill the >beans, as their only control mechanism is to make us afraid of >each other so we won't get together and move in next door to one >another. >Can't have 'them' people dating our daughters! >After reflecting upon the attempt and control of covering up the >best UFO data, I had to admit it wouldn't be that difficult as >all you'ld need are three things: >1. Money >2. A display of the downfall of nationalism. >3. Lotsa guns and henchmen & hookers. >We ain't run out of any of the above three. >Some countries are so low brow all you need to bribe them are >tickets to Vegas and a strip show. Other countries you've got to >do some bartering about trade and some you just have to grease >someone's palm. >Worse, you have to find a husband for some big-shot's ugly >daughter. >Photos, files, wreckage, artifacts? Easily procured and >controlled. Since it doesn't happen every day it's easy to see >how a team can be dispatched and monies dispersed, threats >levied and bargains made. >It's the ancient crash artifacts that are the fly in this >ointment. >Granted not all the evidence gets bogarted :) >Thanks to the courageous investigators, researchers and >witnesses, whistleblowers and government folk who uphold their >oaths, we've got overwhelming evidence of several UFO sources. >Every day the possibility that some solid bit of data or >artifact may slip through the shroud keeps us on our toes. >When we put the shoe on the other foot, how long will it be >before we have enough resources to counter the bribes and >intimidation? >I guess that's the difference, we don't play dirty. >So again, I apologize, you can keep secrets. Get real. Get serious instead of frivolous. You were right the first time. No such secret could be kept, at least not for long. Nor would any country try to do this. Consider the tremendous prestige for any country to get in first with the great news: "We have discovered ET presence on planet earth". It would be far too dangerous to try to cover it up and leave some other country to get in first with the news. Nor is your remark " since it doesn't happen every day, it is easy to see....." valid. How do you know when, where and how often the ETs will descend upon our planet? If they did decide to land every day, and in a different country each time,do you still think the US could prevent the truth coming out? Despatch their forces to every place on earth in their desperate attempts to stifle the news? And for what purpose anyway? Money can't buy that sort of thing. You were correct the first time. There is no conspiracy, and far too many US ufologists assume their intelligence agencies have this amazing power to cover up the supposed truth forever. As for the other 5 main industrial nations being able to do likewise - just plain poppycock! "Bribe and intimidate" over a momentous scientific discovery like this? "Photos, files, wreckage, artifacts. Easily procured and controlled"? Very easily indeed. Just like procuring, controlling and hiding in secret vaults all the meteorites falling on earth. As simple as that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Hundreds Of Canadians Report Seeing Objects - From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:00:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:41:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Hundreds Of Canadians Report Seeing Objects - >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:19:33 -0300 >Subject: Hundreds Of Canadians Report Seeing Objects >List, My comment off the top. The reporters of other articles I >have seen posted here lately about UFOs should note the >professional mamnner in which the following piece is written. >It does not show bias from the opening line and is objective. >Source: The Toronto Sun >http://www.torontosun.com/ >Date: 09/15/2005 >Lights In The Sky >Though Dismissed By Skeptics, Hundreds Of Canadians Report Seeing >Unexplained Objects >Source: The Toronto Sun >Section: News >Page: 8 >Byline: Brodie Fenlon, Toronto Sun <snip> Don: Yes, I was impressed with Fenlon's journalism. He's been working on this story since this past Spring, and I've been patiently answering his questions. He did a considerable amount of research before writin the piece, getting government docs from Archives and sifting through the case files I provided. Apart from a silly error confusing meteors and meteorites, it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 UFO Spotted Over Worle Somerset From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:50:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:50:10 -0400 Subject: UFO Spotted Over Worle Somerset Source: The Weston Mercury - Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, UK http://tinyurl.com/7vnj6 16th September 2005 UFO Spotted Over Worle In a scene straight out of the X files, residents in Worle spotted a UFO hovering over their neighbourhood. The long flat grey object was seen suspended in the clear sky above the Spring Hill area on September 2. Dennis Owen, of Edgecombe Avenue, saw the object at about 3.30pm. The 70-year-old former aircraft inspector at British Aerospace, Filton, said: "It seemed to suddenly appear and was in silhouette. I saw a BA146 aeroplane fly in its vicinity. "At first I thought it was a weather balloon but it was the wrong shape. "When I looked at it with my neighbour's binoculars, I saw it was not undulating in the way a balloon would be. It was impossible to say how big it was or how fast it was moving. "It had no windows or protrubances and after about half an hour, it rose up through the thin clouds and disappeared. "I would not use the phrase unidentified flying object but I do not know what it was." Neighbour Ray Parson, of Edgecombe Avenue, also reported seeing the UFO. A spokesman from Bristol International Airport said no unusual
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Project Blue Book Audio History Compilation From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:33:33 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:51:48 -0400 Subject: Project Blue Book Audio History Compilation Greetings to Listarians and Lurkers: Volume 14 in the Audio History of Ufology series is now available. Project Blue Book: An Audio Retrospective, contains 75 mp3 recordings and a total running time over 15 hours. A guide to each recording is included. A brief summary of some of the recordings: 1. Air Force Office of Special Investigations interview with George Koehler of the Aztec, NM alleged crash from 1950. 2. 1994 Blue Book Reunion celebrating the 25th anniversary of the closing of Blue Book held at WPAFB. Yeah, they're still clueless. 3. Interview with Alfred C. Loedding's (he started Project SIGN) son by me in 1999 and the first public release of this interview. 4. Interviews with Capt. Edward J. Ruppelt, Major Hector Quintanilla, Lt. Col. Robert Friend, Dr. J. Allen Hynek, etc. 5. Lectures by Dr. Thornton Page, Major Dewey Fournet, Hynek, etc. 6. Dr. Donald Menzel's disasterous speech before the American Society of Newspaper Editors. This is good for an old fashioned belly laugh, regardless whether you are pro or con, on the subject of UFOs. Donation includes free postage to anywhere in the world. You can reserve your copy at my website: www.fadeddiscs.com PayPal is available for your convience. Just click on the link to see a complete listing of recordings on the compilation. I want to thank the many Listarians who have sent me encouraging words while I have been recovering from health issues. There will more compilations in the coming months!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:55:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:01:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:56:17 -0500 >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:52:34 -0400 (EDT) >>Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event >Flash 1 event time:GMT 12:30:37.4 >Flash 2 event time:GMT 12:30:38.7 >(+-1.25 second). Examining the locations of the cameras and thrusters that you list as firing shows that the L5D is the likely candidate. L5D is the aft left (port) and downward firing thruster. The video camera is the left (port) aft one. This enables a nice peripheral view of the thruster plume region which could not happen for the camera aiming across the payload bay in the starboard direction. Also, examination of the prior video footage with relation to the payload bay hardware confirms the camera direction is port-ward. Since this is a _downward_ firing thruster, I assume the plume expands to enable the camera to see it. Since an earlier starboard (R5D/R5R) thruster firing was not visible in the video and no separate lightenings were seen (due to the fairly close firing of both the R5D and L5D thrusters), I assume the R5D could not be seen from the angle of the port aft camera. Also, it is not clear why the second firing was brighter. Perhap the pressure data needs to be requested. Given that the thruster data to use is L5D, then you list 12:30:39.148 as the start of the firing. Then later it fires again at 12:30:40.428. If I add my error bar of 1.25 seconds to the times, I get 12:30:38.65 and 12:30:39.97. Thus the difference between your data set and the video times is about 1/2 second. Of interest is the fact that there ARE two observed thruster firings which does compare with your data set (there ARE two successive thruster firings by the same thruster). The time difference between the two is about the same as the observed light flashes. (about 1.3 seconds). Is .5 seconds a big deal? Not in my opinion. If I had the actual event time on the tape rather than recorded time I bet that we would get better accuracy. Still, the "coincidental" nature of the two events imply that they are related.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:46:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:05:19 -0400 Subject: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story [The Chairman of the Fund for UFO Research, Don Berliner, is an avid UpDates reader, and uses the Archive to follow posts. But he wanted to have the following posted as a comment and forwarded it to me] ----- Those of you accusing the press of anti-UFO bias and thus of involvement in some sort of world-wide conspiracy, might consider this: Several years ago, a columnist for the Washington Post who had shown some interest in UFOs, described to me his and others' lack of serious, objective writing on the subject as the result of concern that UFOs might be too big a story. He felt that any professional journalist who took a careful look at the subject would almost certainly conclude that there was at least 1 chance in 100 that some UFOs were alien craft. The potential implications of this - professional and personal - would be so great that all other assignments would pale by comparison. He would have little choice but to put all of his effort into digging out this story, and ignore his other responsibilities, be they local news, national news, sports, etc. This would bring him into direct conflict with his editors, who had not looked into UFOs and seen what he had seen. He would then be faced with a very large decision: should he stick with what could be the biggest story in history and, along the way, lose his professional standing and probably his job? Or should he place his professional and personal obligations (such as feeding his family) first, and set aside this terribly tempting story? In view of the decades that have passed without the story being broken, a practical reporter would almost certainly set UFOs aside and do the job for which he was hired. While the concept of any story being too big is anathema to any
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:33:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:07:12 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - White >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:01:56 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up <snip> >>So again, I apologize, you can keep secrets. >Get real. Get serious instead of frivolous. You were right the >first time. No such secret could be kept, at least not for long. >Nor would any country try to do this. Sometimes I think when 'secrecy' is debated, the most common type of 'secrecy' is overlooked. That is to keep people from _acknowledging_ things which are not actually able to be kept secret. The most compelling UFO cases and abduction cases are classic examples. Artificial structures on the Moon or Mars may prove to be the same, once more data is made available. This common type of 'secrecy' is applied, by the powers that be, by ensuring government officials and the media consistently ridicule the mere mention of whatever it is that's to be kept secret. My arena, vigilante stalking and electronic harassment, is another classic example where indisputable evidence is intentionally ignored, at the least, and ridiculed wherever the ridicul-er can do so without looking like an idiot. Maybe "secret-out-in-the-open" is one way to describe this class
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: The Space Review - Kimball From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:37:12 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:10:09 -0400 Subject: Re: The Space Review - Kimball >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:34:08 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:08:31 EDT >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:31:01 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review <snip> >>Like misrepresent what a person does for a living, >You are a lawyer, Sir. Trained as a lawyer you must forever >after think like a lawyer... I looked it up. It's in the bylaws. >Moreover, I'm sure it has a lot to do with how you make your >'living' at this point in time. I guess, using this "logic," you're still a soldier in your thinking. Not the good ones, mind you - the bad ones. You know the type. The narrow thinking, the simple solutions. The "do as I say, or you're the enemy" mentality. You're are a ufological Custer. >>and flame >>them all over the Internet for having the temerity to offer an >>opinion that is different from your own. >I'll defend my friends and speak my mind if that's what what >you're on about, Mr. Kimball. Like I said. Wear a cup. "Wear a cup?" That's illustrative of your method. Kick below the belt. Here's my advice for you - get a life. Really. >>You don't want a discussion - you want a soliloquy. >...Give me one. I'm listening. You never listen, you never hear, and I'm not into soliloquies. That's your bag. >>In that respect, you have much in common with the late Phil >Klass. <snip> >Now - _that_, Sir, was uncalled for. If the shoe fits. >>It would be sad if it wasn't, at least on occasion, amusing. >As I wrote earlier, Mr. Kimball. Be amused. Be _very_ >amused. I'm always amused by your kind - even as I counsel people to listen carefully to what they have to say, and how they say it. Your type is dangerous, Mr. Lehmberg. Always has been, always will be. You don't want people to think for themselves - you want people to see the world as you see it, and if they don't, then you have no use for them, because they're the enemy. I have more faith in people than that.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: Response To The Space Review - Kimball From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:48:38 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:11:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Kimball >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:56:32 -0300 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:08:31 EDT >>Subject: Re: Response to the Space Review ><snip> <snip> >>Ufologists of the "It's ET" bent routinely accuse the >>"mainstream news media" of framing stories in a certain way, >>i.e. in an anti-UFO way. And of course, the government is >>covering up the truth about ET. <snip> >I am one of those that accuse >the mainstream American media of bias when it comes to reporting >on various UFO reports in their area or in general. A high >percentage of them present a tongue-in-cheek report that is less >than objective in its focus. Space aliens, flying saucers and >little green men are sprinkled into the reports quite liberally. >You don't have to look very hard to find them. I offered a >Toronto Sun piece the other day about the conference there and >UFOs in general that just presented fact, didn't judge anyone or >take a stand in any way. That's the way it should be in my >estimation. Don: I agree, but that's not the point. The point was the people within ufology sometimes do the same sort of thing with the facts, and when they do, it's just as wrong. People should have all of the information, and then make up their minds accordingly. Of course, no source is going to be able to present all the information, and most sources are going to have some bias, one way or another (on both sides of the fence), but the key is that they don't misrepresent what a person has said, so as to make it appear that they said something they did not. >Just lay it out there and let the reader decide. You should know that this isn't how it works. Everyone is trying to make a case. The key is, as I said, not to misrepresent the data. >That's not what the last 10 pieces, that showed up on this List, >were like in the American press, many of the articles being from >local papers, probably where the reporter is known to the grocer >and the Knights of Columbus and would risk the the smirks and >jibes of his peers. Actually, I think the local media does a far better job of reporting these things than the national media does. They take their neighbours more seriously when they report something, because they know them. As just one example that I have come across recently, while filming the Fields of Fear animal mutilation documentary, the St. Paul (Alberta) Journal takes Fern Belzil and his work seriously. <snip> >Finally there seems to be a bias in favor of some intelligence >that has been inhabiting this planet as long as or longer than >us [despite absolutely no proof] or some inter dimensional >traveler intelligence now in vogue since the introduction of >String Theory and the possibility of parallel universes, rather >than the possibility of some extraterrestrial intelligence. What >makes one more favorable than the others? What is this ETH >phobia that is so prevalent amongst UFO researchers? I don't >know if this phenomenon is the cause of some extraterrestrial >intelligence and/or these objects are controlled by same, but if >it turned out to be the case, I wouldn't be surprised by it. I think you're joking here, but if not... Don, now c'mon. An "anti-ETH" bias amongst UFO researchers? You can't be serious?? The majority of UFO researchers still skew towards the ETH as the most probable explanation (more than a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Harney From: John Harney <magonia.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:15:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:14:30 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Harney >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:01:56 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:59:19 EDT >>Subject: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>Photos, files, wreckage, artifacts? Easily procured and >>controlled. Since it doesn't happen every day it's easy to see >>how a team can be dispatched and monies dispersed, threats >>levied and bargains made. >>It's the ancient crash artifacts that are the fly in this >>ointment. >>Granted not all the evidence gets bogarted :) >>Thanks to the courageous investigators, researchers and >>witnesses, whistleblowers and government folk who uphold their >>oaths, we've got overwhelming evidence of several UFO sources. >>Every day the possibility that some solid bit of data or >>artifact may slip through the shroud keeps us on our toes. >>When we put the shoe on the other foot, how long will it be >>before we have enough resources to counter the bribes and >>intimidation? >>I guess that's the difference, we don't play dirty. >>So again, I apologize, you can keep secrets. >Get real. Get serious instead of frivolous. You were right the >first time. No such secret could be kept, at least not for long. >Nor would any country try to do this. >Consider the tremendous prestige for any country to get in first >with the great news: "We have discovered ET presence on planet >earth". It would be far too dangerous to try to cover it up and >leave some other country to get in first with the news. >Nor is your remark " since it doesn't happen every day, it is >easy to see....." valid. How do you know when, where and how >often the ETs will descend upon our planet? If they did decide >to land every day, and in a different country each time,do you >still think the US could prevent the truth coming out? Despatch >their forces to every place on earth in their desperate attempts >to stifle the news? And for what purpose anyway? Money can't buy >that sort of thing. >You were correct the first time. There is no conspiracy, and far >too many US ufologists assume their intelligence agencies have >this amazing power to cover up the supposed truth forever. As >for the other 5 main industrial nations being able to do >likewise - just plain poppycock! >"Bribe and intimidate" over a momentous scientific discovery >like this? "Photos, files, wreckage, artifacts. Easily procured >and controlled"? >Very easily indeed. Just like procuring, controlling and hiding >in secret vaults all the meteorites falling on earth. As simple >as that. >Once again, get real! This fantasy of governments concealing the Truth About UFOs is kept going because it is part of the act for those who practice ufology as a form of popular entertainment. The deception depends on people failing to make the distinction between UFO reports and UFO investigations. It is of course quite possible to keep UFO investigations secret and to write reports of them which can be kept secret for may years. Not only can governments do this, but any group or individual can investigate a UFO report and not publish their findings. However, the UFOs themselves, whatever they may be, can appear anywhere, at any time, and any evidence of their reality can fall into the hands of any organisation or individual anywhere. No government or organisation can keep UFOs secret for the simple reason that they do not have control of the situation, just as they do not have control of the weather, or of other natural events, so cannot keep them secret. The notion of governments keeping UFOs secret indefinitely is one of the most absurd ideas in ufology. The technical term for
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 NASA Details Moon And Mars Plan From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:21:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:21:47 -0400 Subject: NASA Details Moon And Mars Plan Source: BBC News OnLine - UK http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4260396.stm Monday, 19 September 2005 NASA Details Moon And Mars Plan The US space agency NASA has announced detailed plans for sending humans back to the Moon and eventually onwards to Mars. NASA wants to send a crew of four to the Moon in 2018 for a one- week stay. The Crew Exploration Vehicle, the spacecraft that will take them there, should be ready by 2012, officials say. Astronauts on the 2018 mission might return to the Moon in a capsule similar to those used in the Apollo programme but using space shuttle technology. Humans have not set foot on the Moon since the Apollo 17 mission in 1972 NASA is charged with implementing the vision for space exploration, laid out in January 2004 by President George W Bush. This vision aims to return humans to the Moon, to use it as a staging point for a manned mission to Mars. Expensive plans The American space agency briefed congressional committees on Friday on its plans to spend a reported $100bn developing the spacecraft and associated technology for the lunar programme. Research aboard the International Space Station is also expected to be cut. The space shuttle is to be retired by 2010 in order to pay for its replacement, known as the Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV). NASA would begin the lunar expedition by lifting a lunar landing capsule and a propulsion stage into space. It would then launch the CEV atop a new launcher using existing shuttle rocket technology. The CEV would dock with the lunar lander and the propulsion stage and start its journey to the Moon. NASA also envisions the possibility of building a semi-permanent lunar base, where astronauts would make use of the Moon's natural resources for water and fuel. Even before the official announcement, there has been recognition that the proposals will be tough to see through, given the US government's commitments to the Iraq war and recovery from Hurricane Katrina. "This plan is coming out at a time when the nation is facing significant budgetary challenges," Representative Bart Gordon, a Tennessee Democrat on the US House Science Committee, said in a statement. "Getting agreement to move forward on it is going to be heavy lifting in the current environment, and it's clear that strong
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:16:02 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:24:37 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:10:23 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 09:58:20 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:42:29 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >><snip> >>>"To accelerate any mass at all to the speed of light - even a >>>single electron never mind a spaceship - would take literally >>>infinite energy because as you push it closer to the limit its >>>own mass becomes ever greater until at light speed you'd be >>>trying to push an infinite mass. This comes out of the Lorentz >>>transformations of Special Relativity." (Quote from a List >>>member off line) >>>With this limitation in mind, I find it hard to understand why >>>folks won't even consider that we might share our solar system >>>with at least one other civilization and also consider that the >>>creature in the alien autopsy might be one of the critters who >>>at one time roamed their streets, looking for love. >>Special relativity limits traditional travel to sub-light speed, >>that's true. But getting fr^om one point in space time to >>another point in space time by traversing the distance in >>between is but one mode of moving around in this multi- >>dimensional universe of ours. >>There are many models that would allow getting from one >>point to another without passing through the intervening space- >>time. In fact, some have suggested that time travel may be >>much easier and require less energy outlay than long distance >>space travel. Bob Stan, Eugene, There are a world of possibilities but I was trying to limit this discussion to what is known, or possibly known, to be objectively real. I don't have faith in time travel, worm hole entrances, or exotic drives or warp drivers, or any of the myriad of possible ways to get from here to there at light speeds. I understand faith and respect it, but I've lost mine. I was very young when I started to really believe that we were being visited by folks from other worlds and star-systems. But the AA changed my mind and viewpoint and I now see clearly what's so exasperating to scientists when they try to argue their skeptical views with those who believe we are being visited by starships driven by star pilots. Kevin Seeger elegantly summarized what I've been trying to say for many months: "So many times Occam's Razor is evoked to cut to the core of plausibility in these discussions and if we all agree there is intelligent life in our skies and under our oceans, then Occam suggests the more plausible origin of that life is Earth since life is already known to exist here. We can argue forever about theoretical physics and the possibility for alien intelligences to traverse vast distances of space, but none of that is needed with the simpler explanation."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Footage Of Two Objects From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:50:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:50:36 -0400 Subject: Footage Of Two Objects Source: Frank Riccardi's EyePod.Org http://www.eyepod.org/Video-Scotland-UFO.html 18 September 2005 [Video & Stills] Erskine, Scotland... Good footage of two craft exhibiting their "modes operandi" or Inter-Spatial phasing. An effect commonly found on much UFO footage. The effect is a result of the craft's propulsion system, drawing energy from one dimension and using it in another. Like flipping a light switch on and off, in the off position we don't see the light although the energy is still present. Take a look at the time on the counter of the video... It begins at 1947... Yes Roswell It ends at 1948... Aztec New Mexico A mere coincidence? Well maybe, but anyone who has been involved in investigating UFOs for any amount of time knows all too well that there are no coincidences in the phenomenon. As a matter of fact there is a unique persistence of synchronicity.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Mock-Up Alien Skull On Display From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:57:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:57:25 -0400 Subject: Mock-Up Alien Skull On Display Source: Indiana Daily Student - Bloomington, Indiana http://www.idsnews.com/story.php?id=31180 Tuesday, September 20, 2005 Mock-Up Alien Skull On Display Passers-by on the ground floor of the Student Building might notice a strange inclusion in its display case of animal bones. Nestled beside the posed skeleton of a squirrel monkey sits an alien skull with giant eye sockets, oversized head and small nose typical of a science fiction movie. So is the Student Building the Area 51 of IU? Not exactly. The mock-up skull is a creation of what an alien might look like, based on popular extraterrestrial lore in our culture. And even though the skull has a small disclaimer in front of it explaining that it didn't originate from another galaxy, Nick Toth, a professor of anthropology and the co-director of the Center for Research into the Anthropological Foundations of Technology, said it attracts students' attention nonetheless. "They do comment on it. They usually ask 'just what is that?'" he said. "Usually when you're looking at a skull, you have some sense of what it comes from, and that one throws them for a ringer." The skull was created by California-based Bone Clones and "has the complete look and feel of the real thing," according to the company's Web site. IU acquired a copy of the skull partially to stimulate students' interest in bones and partially as a joke, Toth said. "It's not to be taken seriously," he said. "It's kind of based on the science fiction portrayal of aliens, and what would its skull look like. It gets students thinking about bones in general and what to expect in evolution." Students who really like the skull can purchase one at www.boneclones.com for $185. ----- Image here:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 20 Reflections On Gravity - Part 6 From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:38:45 +1000 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:59:23 -0400 Subject: Reflections On Gravity - Part 6 The Reflections On Gravity series at the Australian Centre for UFO Studies web site explores the nature of gravity and its possible applications in the field of UFOlogy.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:16:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:52:00 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Hamilton >From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:15:18 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:01:56 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up <snip> >The notion of governments keeping UFOs secret indefinitely is >one of the most absurd ideas in ufology. The technical term for >educated people, who should know better, propagating this belief >is "intellectual dishonesty". On the face of it, your argument is almost logical, but delving deeper reveals flaws and fallacies. The notion that governments are keeping UFOs secret is absurd as you say, but the notion that they are keeping their involvement with UFOs secret is really what we are saying not as a matter of entertainment or propaganda, but as a matter of following the evidence. The first and foremost secret involvement was that of our own army air force when encountering unidentified aerial objects during WW II and not knowing their origin or purpose and surmising that it might be an enemy's development in aviation technology that outpaces our own. Classifying the existence of a possible enemy weapon as secret is not unusual or entertainment by any stretch of the imagination. With the recovery of actual alien machines the escalation of security and secrecy follows while those in charge try to keep down the public snoopers and hide our studies from the world in order to gain a military advantage. It is logical, possible, and evidence says it is probable. I don't call that "intellectual
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:25:08 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:59:29 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:16:02 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >There are a world of possibilities but I was trying to limit >this discussion to what is known, or possibly known, to be >objectively real. I don't have faith in time travel, worm hole >entrances, or exotic drives or warp drivers, or any of the >myriad of possible ways to get from here to there at light >speeds. I understand faith and respect it, but I've lost mine. Yes, Ed, I understand _exactly_ what you have been trying to do. I've understood it since your first word. That's the crux of the problem - what you are trying to do! We were discussing if star to star travel was possible - if ET could get from there to here - and if the alleged creature in the alleged AA film could be from anywhere else but Earth. As you said above, "I'm trying to limit ..." and that's where the problem comes in. Not only are you trying to limit this discussion to entertaining only certain possibilities (and labelling anything that shows them to be wrong as 'side-tracking' and the discussion 'going downhill') but, even worse, you're limiting what is possible - regarding what humans and ET (assuming he exists) can accomplish via technology - based on our _earlier_ understanding of science (physics). The whole point is that you're basing these restrictions on a physics that current research is showing to be describing only limited conditions in our universe - research that is leading to a larger, more encompassing physics under which the physics of Newton and Einstein are subsumed. >and I now see clearly >what's so exasperating to scientists when they try to argue >their skeptical views with those who believe we are being >visited by starships driven by star pilots. Again, these arguements - these skeptical views - are from scientists locked into a 'passing physics'. When general relativity is merged with quantum theory sometime in the future, I think the 'views' of scientists won't be the skeptical ones you're embracing now. Anyway, you're wrong about scientists and their views, even now! They don't all hold skeptical views. For instance, Stan's a scientist. He's not handing us the 'skeptical views' regarding interstellar travel you're telling us about. Do some homework - he's not the only one! >"So many times Occam's Razor is evoked to cut to the core of >plausibility in these discussions and if we all agree there is >intelligent life in our skies and under our oceans, then Occam >suggests the more plausible origin of that life is Earth since >life is already known to exist here. Be careful, Ed. If you play with razors you might get cut really bad. Stop swinging Occam's razor at us. You can't fight your way out of every bad situation you get yourself into with a mere razor blade; sometimes your opponents are armed with something bigger and better. The older (old-fashioned) razor blades have two edges and can cut from both sides. The physics you're using to justify your limitations to star travel is becoming old- fashioned at a rapid rate, so you might be wielding something that cut you in ways you aren't expecting. You're blurring issues here. You did this too when discussing a billion year's effect on evolution and on technology. Arguements against accelerating matter (using reaction rockets) to light speed are not sound arguements against interstellar travel. Even if you _can't_ accelerate a ship to light speed (which I don't believe is a limitation) it doesn't mean intersteller travel is impossible. It just means you can't accelerate matter to light speed. The arguement is against a spaceship hitting light speed, not against whether or not star to star travel is impossible - two different things. If you have no sound arguements as to why star to star travel is impossible then you also have no sound arguement as to 'life from Earth being the most likely explanation for the alleged AA creature (and the UFO phenomenon) and no sound arguement that this is the 'simpler explanation' - and you can't invoke Occam's razor. From where I stand, neither you or anyone else has proven or even given any sound arguement as to why life from Earth is the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:34:57 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:02:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - >From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:46:35 -0400 >Subject: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story >[The Chairman of the Fund for UFO Research, Don Berliner, is an >avid UpDates reader, and uses the Archive to follow posts. But >he wanted to have the following posted as a comment and >forwarded it to me] >----- >Those of you accusing the press of anti-UFO bias and thus of >involvement in some sort of world-wide conspiracy, might >consider this: >Several years ago, a columnist for the Washington Post who had >shown some interest in UFOs, described to me his and others' >lack of serious, objective writing on the subject as the result >of concern that UFOs might be too big a story. >He felt that any professional journalist who took a careful look >at the subject would almost certainly conclude that there was at >least 1 chance in 100 that some UFOs were alien craft. The >potential implications of this - professional and personal - >would be so great that all other assignments would pale by >comparison. He would have little choice but to put all of his >effort into digging out this story, and ignore his other >responsibilities, be they local news, national news, sports, >etc. >This would bring him into direct conflict with his editors, who >had not looked into UFOs and seen what he had seen. He would >then be faced with a very large decision: should he stick with >what could be the biggest story in history and, along the way, >lose his professional standing and probably his job? Or should >he place his professional and personal obligations (such as >feeding his family) first, and set aside this terribly tempting >story? <snip> >Don Berliner Don Berliner is almost right... While any reporter would love to win a Pulitzer for unmasking the UFO enigma, reporters have little or no say over what their Editors or Publishers or News Directors want to produce for their papers or television/radio newscasts. Reporters are grunts, under stiff deadlines usually. To delve into the UFO mess would require a pass from that grunt work, and who is going to assign someone, in an already diminished or overworked news-room, a sabbatical to research and write about a mystery with no obvious answer, and no light at the end of the UFO tunnel? Some reporters (and editors) I know are intrigued by the UFO story, but not to the point where they will take a leave of absence or mind to pursue the matter. It's a matter of existential priorities, as Berliner stated, not a matter of curiosity or potential fame. If anything, reporters and media are mundane for the most part. But you all know that already.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: The Space Review - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:58:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:13:15 -0400 Subject: Re: The Space Review - Lehmberg >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:37:12 EDT >Subject: Re: The Space Review >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:34:08 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review <snip> >>>Like misrepresent what a person does for a living, >>You are a lawyer, Sir. Trained as a lawyer you must forever >>after think like a lawyer... I looked it up. It's in the bylaws. >>Moreover, I'm sure it has a lot to do with how you make your >>'living' at this point in time. >I guess, using this "logic," you're still a soldier in your >thinking. Quite! Right again. How _do_ you do it? I'm critical-point oriented, organized, objective, constructive, comprehensive, flexible, acceptable, specific and thoughtful... forgetting clean, thrifty, intelligently reverent, and brave... I embrace task organization, time management, and attention to detail. I'm creative because the universe loves innovation and hates stasis, and I expect my boat to _float_, Sir. Additionally, I expect to adapt and overcome any obstacle... Eight or eighty, blind crippled or crazy... walking crawling or stinking ... so, not unlike yourself? I'm a product of experience, according to the evil Dr. Skinner, and subject to _some_ cognition along those lines. Seems like a no-brainer to me. And, like you did with regard to lawyers, I could blather pedantically a canted list of martial examples I'd be proud with which to be associated, but that's not the point as you know. It turns a supposed debate on ufological philosophy into a personal firefight, forgetting it's not germane to same. Here's the issue, Mr. Kimball. You're a believer, a believer spring-loaded to insentient acceptance of the official party- line, the traditional conventional wisdom, and the official mainstream accepted taste of the, now ufological, kool-aid, in my opinion. As a product of probably generations of the 'official' cant, and born with a silver foot in your mouth, I'm sure you've convinced yourself that, based on what you have been trained... from politics to the paranormal... nothing is acceptable but that which can be drawn through the biased gage of the 'approved' sieve or conveniently 'focused' filter. That's not enough, Mr. Kimball, stuff wants to push it's way around your clogged drain, defeat the canted grate of your sieve, or ignore your filter completely. Your clearing house of information lacks depth, in my opinion, and is just not acceptable, not inclusive enough. I'm not sorry. You don't facilitate innovation, Sir, you empower the stasis and the status quo... so the universe likely hates you. <g Like I recently told one in your like-minded camp, you would push your shallow-draft marsh boat around with a new (borrowed in your case) pole and dismiss seas and oceans and other unknown, but vast, saline expanses... as beneath your concern, consideration and contempt, I observe... Even throw portentously ignorant elbows around as you do so. That's not going to go un-remarked upon at this station. Did you really think it would? Did you? As to turning this around on me as if I was the credulous believer. Well, how can that be, Mr. Kimball, when I find it so difficult to believe _you_, countenance _you_, validate _your_ faith, accept _your_ conventions, or celebrate _your_ pointy non-contributions? I mean, come on Sir! You blithely accept George W. Bush as a space pioneer in the tradition of JFK (who I expect you actually detest) when nothing could be, remotely, further from the truth. GWB has not paid off on a _single_ promise in five years. Not a _one_. He is smoke and you're a mirror Mr. Kimball. Neither is safe to stand on, and you both make unctuous intimation that you are. >Not the good ones, mind you - the bad ones. I suspect, Sir, that you don't have a clue what a "good soldier" is, whereas... I commanded a military service academy, the only one of its type, for a time, and actually helped create an entire generation of "good soldiers," even officers, as the Chief of Senior Staff... Was awarded my 4th MSM (Meritorious service medal) as a result. Most guys got one... when they retired... I was an excellent soldier, and continue to think like one. Moreover, I worked very hard for over two decades and contributed much to the quality military that GWB, a dry-drunk- double-deserter with delusions of grandeur, presently _squanders_ out of hand. It's almost gone now... You apparently support all that... and are oblivious to same. I expect you may be out of your depth on this point, Mr. Kimball. Moreover, I suspect that's illustrative of other places where you may be out of your depth... but furiously tread water like you have your feet on the bottom. One little push and down you go? >You know >the type. The narrow thinking, the simple solutions. The "do as >I say, or you're the enemy" mentality. Honestly, and I say this with all sincerity, I would have thought that I was in conversation with that type right now. >You're are a ufological Custer. Last issue, you compared me with Philip Klass. Not intelligently. Not supportably. Not without irrelevancy... Not without immaturity. Abject pointlessness, actually, you would have to agree. No, you did it to wound. You did it to act out. You did it to provoke an angry reaction on my part. You don't do much, Sir, to raise the level of discussion. I laughed it off. I look at the preceding for intelligence, support, relevancy, maturity, or a point. I perceive that it is, similarly, quite bereft of same. Your move. >>>and flame >>>them all over the Internet for having the temerity to offer an >>>opinion that is different from your own. >>I'll defend my friends and speak my mind if that's what what >>you're on about, Mr. Kimball. Like I said. Wear a cup. >"Wear a cup?" >That's illustrative of your method. Kick below the belt. Well, as you've pulled your knickers so far up around your throat? It gets hard to judge exactly where "below the belt" might be with you, Mr. Kimball. I try to keep my discussion north, I think most would agree. By the way... where would you estimate, north or south, the PK & GAC comments were aimed... hmmm? ...Gravy for the goose, Sir. >Here's my advice for you - get a life. Really. Right. It's unlikely that any advice from you to me on that issue is remotely appropriate, in any way sound, or particularly well meaning. I'll pass on it. >>>You don't want a discussion - you want a soliloquy. >>...Give me one. I'm listening. >You never listen, you never hear, and I'm not into soliloquies. >That's your bag. Oh, well... a guy does what he can. But as you auspiciously snipped, Sir, I'm going to continue write my conscience, defend deserving friends, and stay so far up your nose you feel my knees on your top lip. I figure you may make a more expansive, better quality, film as a result. Stranger things have happened. Besides...You should be honored someone is paying attention to you. Why, I'm shickled titless you're paying attention to _me_. <LOL> >>>In that respect, you have much in common with the late Phil >>>Klass. ><snip> >>Now - _that_, Sir, was uncalled for. >If the shoe fits. Well - I know you are, but what am I? I used to get down on my knees for other third graders, too. I know my way around down there... That said, it seems I was good enough while I was in your service... writing favorable reviews for your films? Jeff Rense was too... at least until your interview opportunity was in the can... hmmm. Can it _be_ that Paul Kimball was ignorant on the subject of Jeff Rense... Is there a lack of consistency to be detected here? Shall we continue? >>>It would be sad if it wasn't, at least on occasion, amusing. >>As I wrote earlier, Mr. Kimball. Be amused. Be _very_ >>amused. >I'm always amused by your kind - even as I counsel people to >listen carefully to what they have to say, and how they say it. Careful to insure the right beads are said, the approved conventions are employed, all party-lines adhered to, legion talking-points at the ready, and kool-aid properly mixed... Be amused Mr. Kimball... as your sieves rupture and your filters clog and you contribute to another 60 years of ufological lack of traction. Maybe you can do your part to hold your dodgy, hubristic, homocentric, and blithely insentient paradigms together for another 60 years. >Your type is dangerous, Mr. Lehmberg. Always has been, always >will be. Yep - but I suspect not in the way you would mean here. >You don't want people to think for themselves - you want people >to see the world as you see it, and if they don't, then you have >no use for them, because they're the enemy. You're projecting again, Mr. Kimball... dripping the reaction formation that I've come to expect from you. _Who_ protests too much, Sir? >I have more faith in people than that. Uh-uh... you _pretend_ to have more faith in _your_ people than that, I suspect. Your lines are well drawn and abundantly apparent, Sir. Moreover, I suspect that you are entirely in this for yourself, Mr. Kimball, and your alleged faith in people a mere smokescreen you use to cleverly manipulate them. But that's just my opinion. I still have hopes for you, Sir, even as I find it near impossible to believe you. There is time left for you to make a real contribution to something ufological. Something far- reaching. Something instructively creative... something brave. >>Have a _wonderful_ day. >Always do. Oh, and I'm sure I've been something of a small ripple in your cloistered little part of the marsh today, but it's all grist for the mill, right dawg? <LOL> Smell the salt? _Wide_ saline expanses!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:26:11 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:17:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - Boone >From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:46:35 -0400 >Subject: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story >[The Chairman of the Fund for UFO Research, Don Berliner, is an >avid UpDates reader, and uses the Archive to follow posts. But >he wanted to have the following posted as a comment and >forwarded it to me] >----- >Those of you accusing the press of anti-UFO bias and thus of >involvement in some sort of world-wide conspiracy, might >consider this: <snip> >This would bring him into direct conflict with his editors, who >had not looked into UFOs and seen what he had seen. He would >then be faced with a very large decision: should he stick with >what could be the biggest story in history and, along the way, >lose his professional standing and probably his job? Or should >he place his professional and personal obligations (such as >feeding his family) first, and set aside this terribly tempting >story? >In view of the decades that have passed without the story being >broken, a practical reporter would almost certainly set UFOs >aside and do the job for which he was hired. >While the concept of any story being too big is anathema to any >reporter, the magnitude of this one places it in a unique >position." >Don Berliner Agreed 100%. I grew up in journalism and spent almost a decade with one of the large news services. Dang near straight out of high school to the editorial department. It's not that journalists aren't interested in Ufology, there are several reasons as well as those outlined by Mr. Berliner. Some simple reasons are most reporters, like most folks, know about as much about science as one's left sock. ( which mysteriously disappears ). Talk science and most folks go the other way. Any high school crowd where the audio visual geeks are just fighting off the chicks I'm sure. If I recall correctly, there were studies on the awareness of science facts by Americans and the results were horrid. Some didn't even know where the U.S. was on a map. I used to giggle as out of dozens of reporters and editors in the office and only two or three actually enjoyed discussing scientific events. As a Trekker I just lived for science. Heck, I remember probably breaking the record in NY State for most science classes taken in high school and college. There are also social and religious reasons reporters back off. I recall vividly when UFOs were openly considered heresy by the Catholic reporters and editors. I don't know where they got that idea from but considering the history of Catholicism and science you don't have to stretch too far. Attention means money and power. If you have the public's attention on something other than their own worth and awareness you can make a buck. If you validated UFOs and one of the explanations for the source of some UFOs, extraterrestrials, then the attention span of the human population would go into an area that can't be controlled. It's bad enough now with hucksters and snake oil salesmen and 'merchants of chaos' all over scaring people into submission. Yes Mr. Berliner, the story is big, and it's too big to control and handle that's why those who come to that line hesitate to step over it. I remember a quote from an action movie I saw where the bad guy tells the hero, "Fear causes hesitation, and when you hesitate your worst fears come true."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 38 From: John Hayes <John.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:29:21 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:20:09 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 38 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan.nul> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 10, Number 38 September 21, 2005 Editor: Joseph Trainor E-mail: Masinaigan.nul Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ ESSEX UNDER UFO SIEGE The UFO flap in UK's Essex region roared into its second week with new sightings in Loughton and Chigwell. On Saturday, September 17, 2005, between 9 and 10 p.m., eyewitnesses in Chigwell, Essex saw ten orange UFOs crossing the sky. Eyewitness Sharon Rodwell reported, "My neighbour and I watched a total of ten of these orange lights appear and then fade up into the sky. The first sighting was two orange lights that flew parallel at all times, from the centre of London towards our house in Chigwell. They then stopped, hovering for a few minutes, and then clearly skipped up into the sky until we could not see them any more." "Just as they started to disappear, two more appeared on the horizon and followed the exact (flight) path and maneuvers. They also disappeared up into the night sky at the very same place." "About 10 minutes later, three lights appeared again from the same place and flew the exact path as the other four." "Then, approximately 20 minutes later, another three appeared and, like the others before them, followed the same path." "They all made no noise; those that flew together were always flying parallel. They all appeared from the same place and disappeared in the same part of the night sky." In Hainault, Essex, at approximately 9:30 p.m., eyewitness Victor S. reported, "We, my partner and I, had just left my parents' house, roundabout 9:30 p.m., just saying our goodbyes. My Dad was helping us carry a box of paper to the car. We halted at the front gate when something caught our eye above the house." "It was two orange lights in the sky, slowly moving in the direction of the moon ...north-northwest. There they started to close in towards each other. Then they stopped. My Dad was there with me, watching all the time." "My Dad then said, 'Hang on!' and ran inside the house and called for my Mum to come outside. I was standing frozen, watching the two orange lights, feeling nervous." "As my Mum came through the front gate, she looked up and, after about one minute, said, 'Look!'" "She pointed towards three orange lights travelling at the same speed, in a triangular formation. The three lights then seperated, and the top light and bottom lights then drifted apart and continued to travel." "Then my brother, who had been fetched whilst the second set of lights was travelling, ran back into the house to grab the digital camera. He gave it to me, and I began to take pictures." "Then a neighbour walked up the street and spoke to my Dad. He said he had seen the first two from his window and so came outside to get a better look." "The three lights then stopped dead, and we all watched." "The top and bottom lights (of the triangular formation--V.S.) went out of vision (view--J.T.) as the clouds moved around over them. We could still see the middle orange lights for approximately three minutes. Then my brother and myself saw it shoot off at amazing speed." "We arrived back home and immediately checked the computer to see the pictures we had taken. They were amazing. When we saw them (with our eyes--V.S.), they were just orange balls of light. On the computer, however, there is a more defined shape to them." At first "the speed appeared to be one of a floating balloon, but then it shot off at the speed of a jet--was incredibly fast." On Friday, September 9, 2005, at 8:50 p.m., another witness reported, "I would describe the UFO as an actually flying craft which then put lights in the sky. They were definitely being unanswered. I am a skydiver and would say I have a good eye for the height of aircraft due to this. I would have placed the aircraft a lot higher than the other witnesses, 30,000 feet (9,000 meters) minimum." "As I watched the three craft come across from the left, they were in a large triangular formation. They slowed as they came over the stones reserve at the back of my barn, which is a massive expanse of land 5 miles (8 kilometers) or so from Canary Wharf, London." "They created a very tight triangular formation where they stayed for about one minute, still at the same altitude...Minutes later, three police cars went screaming past, in the direction of the UFOs. I had a (copy of the) National Press" and learned that "the police were called out because they had been inundated with calls of UFO sightings." On Saturday, September 10, 2005, a fourth witness reported, "Myself and my family saw the UFO. It was 8:35 p.m. I was in my garden and, for some reason, I looked up, and to my amazement, I saw three orange glowing balls of light. I knew it straight away that these were not aircraft of any kind. Loughton is close to Stanstead, and aircraft are a common sight in the sky, but then this object had no sound, and they say this was the most frightening thing we've ever seen in the sky." "I went inside to grab my camcorder and my still camera. I managed to get some footage of the UFOs and some still shots. In fact, there were two or three different times the objects passed by. The first was seen at 8:35 p.m., and then another one at 8:45 p.m., and a further one at 8:55 p.m. Each time they passed, they moved at the same rate of speed, with a lead craft and two behind, sometimes the three then moving to form a triangle shape." (Email Form Reports, also many thanks to ufologist Brian Vike for the Friday report.) UFOs SPOTTED IN SCOTLAND AND WEST YORKSHIRE On Thursday, September 15, 2005, eyewitness Mel C. was outdoors in Fife, Scotland, UK when "four or five white glows, looking the same as a reflected spotlight in the clouds, were rotating in a wide circular formation. Stopping before one full turn, then reversing. Reflection was angled a few meters above but with no aircraft seen and no (light) beam emitting from the ground. The lights traveled a distance of 12 miles (20 kilometers) over the countryside, anywhere withing a 15-mile (25-kilometer) radius." "A radio announcement of the sighting was made, stating that thousands had seen these mysterious lights. I believe it was on Radio Forth." On Monday, September 12, 2005, eyewitness Jeff C. was outdoors in his hometown of Knottingley, West Yorkshire, UK when he saw something unusual approaching from the north-northwest. "I was looking at the Great Bear (Ursa Major--J.T.) constellation from my back door," Jeff reported, "and I saw two fast orange lights. I thought it was a light aircraft travelling southeast. As it travelled, lots more little orange lights came into view in a V shape. I watched it for about eight seconds as it went out of view over the rooftop." "There were lots of small orange lights forming a V shape rather like a boomerang. No sound, but about the same height (altitude--J.T.) and speed as a light aircraft." (Email Form Reports) DAYLIGHT DISC SHADOWS MEXICO'S PRESIDENT On Tuesday, September 13, 2005, "a major UFO sighting took place" in Mexico City "just minutes after an official event involving President Vicente A. Fox had taken place." "According to Gerardo Martinez Fernandez, a reporter for Grupo Imagen, President Fox inaugurated the new dining room at Escola Reino Unito de Gran Bretana primary school, which is located in the capital's Coronel del Valle district." "Only a few minutes prior to the First Citizen's (President Fox's--J.T.) arrival, many witnesses were able to see a shiny spherical object in the sky. An anonymous girl granted an interview to Martinez Fernandez, and the girl explained that the UFO resembled 'a very shiny star.'" Martinez Fernandez reported, "On September 13, I covered an event involving President Fox on the Avenida Coyoacan and was amazed to see many people directing their attention upward. Upon getting out of the vehicle, I was told that they were watching an unidentified flying object." "Personally, I didn't get to see it, but I asked other reporters if they knew anything about this strange event. Jesus Cardenas of Televisa told me that his cameraman had gotten it on film." (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Ana Luisa Cid Fernandez para esas noticias.) REDDISH-ORANGE UFO SEEN IN CALIFORNIA On Sunday, August 28, 2005, eyewitness Nekk reported, "My first sighting occurred after visiting a neighbor while walking here" in Grass Valley, California (population 10,922) "The distance between our houses is that of a football field." The sighting "involved a craft of solid light with an orange-red force field around it. It was a circular orangeness cruising in a dead-quiet manner. As it moved, heading in a northeasterly direction, and at about 2,000 to 3,000 feet (600 to 900 meters), it adjusted its course in a way no human craft could manuever. It would turn on a dime, instantly turning with immediate results." From Monday, August 29, 2005 to Saturday, September 3, 2005, Nekk continued to see UFO activity over his hometown. He added, "The other six sightings were of aircraft traveling with the constellations." Nekk explained that he was tired and ready to go to bed, when, suddenly, "my instincts told me to go outside and look at the stars. I could no longer ignore the urge and got out of bed and went outside to see what was up. That's when I saw it--a solid white glowing craft with a reddish force field. Very strange. It was moving at about the speed of a fighter plane, but it was larger than a (Boeing) 747 passenger plane." Grass Valley, Cal. is on Highway 20 about 35 miles (58 kilometers) northeast of Sacramento, the state capital. (Email Form Report) LUMINOUS UFO SIGHTED IN CHANDLER, ARIZONA On Friday, September 16, 2005, at 4:30 a.m., eyewitness Juan Ramon Montoya reported, "My dogs awakened me to take them out to the backyard. I noticed the sky was clear, no clouds. It was still dark and the stars were out. I was looking up at the stars when I noticed a bright circular light coming from the northwest. The light moved steadily and smoothly towards the south. It moved back and forth very smoothly without any jerky movements. There was no sign of any flashing (navigation) lights that airplanes have. It had a very bright glowing white light. I watched as the light just seemed to follow the pattern of the stars across the dark sky. It then turned and headed towards a peak on the (western) horizon." Chandler is located 12 miles (20 kilometers) southeast of Phoenix, the state capital and Arizona's largest city. (Email Form Report) HIGH-FLYING UFO SIGHTED OVER SARNIA, ONTARIO On Monday, September 12, 2005, eyewitness Mike W. reported, "While walking in a northerly direction" in Sarnia, Ontario, Canada (population 72,738), "I observed a pair of flashing white and one red light (on the same craft--M.W.) travelling in a northerly direction. The lights were very high in the sky, and they moved in a northeasterly direction," over Lake Huron. "Continuing to look skyward as I turned the corner, I walked west, and I observed another set of the same type of lights--two white and one red--travelling due west. They stopped in mid-air, then they moved towards the lights I'd just sighted in a northeasterly direction." "On the second object, the blinking red light was on the left side as it began going east, without turning, as if it was going backwards." Sarnia, Ont. is on the south shore of Lake Huron, located about 175 miles (240 kilometers) west-southwest of Toronto, Canada's largest city. (Email Form Report) BIGFOOT FAMILY TERRIFIES CAMPERS IN THE CRIMEA On Sunday, August 21, 2005, a group of 12 campers, 7 adults and 5 children, were hiking on the Demedzhi Plateau, between North Demedzhi Mountain and Stol-Gora (Russian for Table-Top--J.T.) Mountain when they encountered a family or tribe of Kapustin, a hairy man- beast common to the Crimea and the Caucasus and similar to North America's Bigfoot or Australia's Yowie. "On that Sunday, Ivan S., 21, and his group of 12 tourists were spending their second day camped on the plateau between North Demedzhi Mountain and Stol-Gora Mountain," Crimean ufologist Anton A. Anfalov reported, "The night was very bright with a full moon." "The kids went to sleep early. The adults stayed up a while. Ivan's assistant, Sasha (Russian nickname for Aleksander--J.T.) and several of the men went outside of the camp to answer a call of nature. When they returned, they looked terrified, trembling with fear and nearly scared to death." "And then everyone heard a frightful growl near the camp." "'Then we went back out to the scene, all dressed in a greenish military camoflauge,' Sasha was quoted as saying, 'I was armed with the camp axe. In that moment, we saw strange creatures, looking like naked men, quite nearby.'" "'There were three creatures,' Sasha said, 'And they were about 6 meters (20 feet) away from us. The hairy humanoids were 2 to 2.5 meters in height (about 6 feet, 6 inches to 8 feet tall--J.T.). The true height of these creatures is hard to estimate because they were all crouched down and balancing themselves on their fists, like large apes. All three were growling at us. Their faces were very hairy, almost without wrinkles, and their eyes were not shiny at all. Their necks were set or positioned very low, even among their children, almost as if they had no necks. From behind, they had something like humps'" on the spine. "Sasha was standing closer and saw that the hairy creatures had some kind of lighter outgrowth, like light fur for their necks and eyebrows." "Witnesses said they could not tell if the creatures were male or female." "The creatures were highly aggressive. The witnesses were terribly scared." The beasts' noise woke the children who "fell into a hysterical state. Girls were crying and screaming, 'Call someone!'" The standoff lasted for about 45 minutes. "Sasha then said he couldn't wait any more. Finally, the creatures turned and bounded away," with a strange ape- like bouncing leap. The campers spent a sleepless night around their fire. "People were trembling from fear and waiting for the dawn. In the morning, Ivan and the others went back to the site but unfortunately did not find any traces of the mysterious night visitors within the dense beech forest. The land was covered with thick layers of fallen leaves." (See the Ukrainian newspaper Situation for September 8, 2005. Many thanks to Anton A. Anfalov and Prina Shahno for this news story.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home- -UFO Roundup." See you next time. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2005 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may publish news items from UFO Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/submit/sightings.shtml -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Home to UFO Roundup, Encounters With Aliens On This Day, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert Rosales), Filer's Files, UFO News UK and more... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Response To The Space Review - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:47:42 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:28:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Ledger >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:48:38 EDT >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:56:32 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:08:31 EDT Subject: >>>Re: Response To the Space Review >>>Ufologists of the "It's ET" bent routinely accuse the >>>"mainstream news media" of framing stories in a certain >>>way, i.e. in an anti-UFO way. And of course, the >>>government is covering up the truth about ET. ><snip> >>I am one of those that accuse the mainstream American media >>of bias when it comes to reporting on various UFO reports in >>their area or in general. A high percentage of them present >>a tongue-in-cheek report that is less than objective in its >>focus. Space aliens, flying saucers and little green men are >>sprinkled into the reports quite liberally. You don't have >>to look very hard to find them. I offered a Toronto Sun >>piece the other day about the conference there and UFOs in >>general that just presented fact, didn't judge anyone or take >>a stand in any way. That's the way it should be in my estimation. >Don: >I agree, but that's not the point. The point was the people >within ufology sometimes do the same sort of thing with the >facts, and when they do, it's just as wrong. People should >have all of the information, and then make up their minds >accordingly. That's a forced win situation, Paul. How can we get all of the information. The best we can do is keep it out there and those that are convinced that there is a hard core to this phenomenon have to make sure it stays alive. The fact that many of us take heat from our peers and contemporaies and stick with it should count for something. But I sure as hell don't have to sit and take simple-minded nonsense from a wet behind the ear, nothing to fear, doesn't hav to explain him/herself reporter who knows nothing about the phenomenon. >Of course, no source is going to be able to present all the >information, and most sources are going to have some bias, one >way or another (on both sides of the fence), but the key is >that they don't misrepresent what a person has said, so as to >make it appear that they said something they did not. No problem with that. >>Just lay it out there and let the reader decide. >You should know that this isn't how it works. Everyone is >trying to make a case. The key is, as I said, not to >misrepresent the data. Well the press and some air forces have been doing a great job of that. We have our own stars-in-their-eyes, gee-whiz kids to contend with. And usually it's those we have to defend ourselves from to the debunkers. They class them right in with those that do collect data ad nauseum. >>That's not what the last 10 pieces, that showed up on this >>List, were like in the American press, many of the articles >>being from local papers, probably where the reporter is >>known to the grocer and the Knights of Columbus and would >>risk the the smirks and jibes of his peers. >Actually, I think the local media does a far better job of >reporting these things than the national media does. They take >their neighbours more seriously when they report something, >because they know them. As just one example that I have come >across recently, while filming the Fields of Fear animal >mutilation documentary, the St. Paul (Alberta) Journal takes >Fern Belzil and his work seriously. Fern got sucked into this thing like many of us have. First the jaundiced eye, then "hey, what's going on here" then after an accumulation of data that won't prove or disprove-but just keeps cvoming, you find yourself defending that which in the beginning you thought was nonsense to people who have no background in the field. It's just not that simple. ><snip> >>Finally there seems to be a bias in favor of some >>intelligence that has been inhabiting this planet as long as >>or longer than us [despite absolutely no proof] or some >>inter dimensional traveler intelligence now in vogue since >>the introduction of String Theory and the possibility of >>parallel universes, rather than the possibility of some >>extraterrestrial intelligence. What makes one more favorable >>than the others? What is this ETH phobia that is so >>prevalent amongst UFO researchers? I don't know if this >>phenomenon is the cause of some extraterrestrial intelligence >>and/or these objects are controlled by same, >>but if it turned out to be the case, I wouldn't be surprised >>by it. >I think you're joking here, but if not... >Don, now c'mon. An "anti-ETH" bias amongst UFO researchers? >You can't be serious?? The majority of UFO researchers still >skew towards the ETH as the most probable explanation (more >than a few accept it as the ETF, or Extraterrestrial Fact). >The truth is that they're all still theories, each with some >validity and some proponents. It's up to the individual to >decide which one they think might have the most validity, but >only after examining the possibilities inherent in all of >them. I'm not joking. You haven't been on this List - and others - as long as I have, Paul. I'm often surprised at how many researchers aren't up to openly endorsing ETI as the possibility for the existence of the UFO phenomenon. Your "now c'mon" comment above is knee-jerk in that regard. Many will approach the "saucer" hatch but won't go through it. And re theories, the String Theory is still just a theory as well. Theories abound in every field. BTW - your reference to Fern Belzil and his standing in his community and the treatment he receives in the press reinforces what I've stated. The facts, just the facts. He is well known by the cattle ranchers in that area and is a highly successful cattle rancher himself, hence the respect. They go to him when their cattle or mutilated. Yesterday this was forwarded: --- Source: This Is Local London.Com http://tinyurl.com/9a2t4 Saturday 17th September 2005 UFOs Above Loughton By Guardian-series "Loughton was visited by aliens in bright triangular orbs on Saturday night or so some residents believe." Says the reporter with nothing to support this. It's a common ploy used by the media all of the time. They don't actually have anyone that says that to them; they just make it up. Steve Murphy's Live at 5 copy [not about UFOs] is sprinkled with these comments ["but others are not so sure"]all of the time on just about every subject. You have the person on camera who actually makes the statement and the media counters with 'others' or 'some' without actually proving this. --- This morning there was another piece: --- Source: The Weston Mercury - Weston-Super-Mare, Somerset, UK http://tinyurl.com/7vnj6 16th September 2005 UFO Spotted Over Worle "In a scene straight out of the X files, residents in Worle spotted a UFO hovering over their neighbourhood." --- What lousy reporting. Set the whacko theme right off the bat. There, I've done my job and I've come out clean. There may be something to Don Berliner's statements [again posted to Updates earlier today] that the individual reporter realizes how big a story this is but can't devote time to it. This might be true of the experienced reporters but likely not the inexperienced. But if this is the case, why the tongue-in- cheek derogatory first sentences? Why not just present the facts and let the reader decide instead of giving them a gentle shove in the reporter's biased direction? We can go around on this and not accomplish anything. There's a lot of that going around.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Secrecy News -- 09/20/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:20:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:32:07 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/20/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 90 September 20, 2005 ** REMOVING HEU FROM ARGENTINA ** ARKIN: EARLY WARNING ** KATRINA AND CLASSIFIED RECORDS ** REMEMBERING PHILIP MORRISON ** SELECTED CRS REPORTS REMOVING HEU FROM ARGENTINA The U.S. Department of Energy, "in secret and under heavy security measures," has been removing highly enriched uranium fuel elements from the RA3 nuclear research reactor in Ezeiza, Argentina, according to a September 18 report in the Buenos Aires newspaper Clarin, as part of a continuing effort to convert such reactors to the use of low enriched uranium fuel. See "EE.UU. se lleva materiales nucleares de la Argentina" by Daniel Santoro, Clarin, September 18, 2005: http://www.clarin.com/suplementos/zona/2005/09/18/z-03615.htm ARKIN: EARLY WARNING A new blog by author and critic William Arkin on the WashingtonPost.com web site has become instantly "bookmarkable" for students of national security affairs. The web is already supersaturated with opinion, of course, and with analysis of varying degrees of sophistication or self- indulgence. But Arkin's blog, Early Warning, stands out because he also offers access to official records that are otherwise not publicly available. In his first outing on September 14, for example, he posted the April 2005 Department of Homeland Security National Planning Scenarios, which are "for official use only." On September 19, he disclosed another FOUO document on "Potential Terrorist Use of Pressure Cookers." And "there is a lot more where that came from," he promises, or threatens. See "Early Warning" here: http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/ KATRINA AND CLASSIFIED RECORDS One of the many disruptive effects of Hurricane Katrina with which residents and government agencies have to contend is the loss of personal and official records. The National Archives has "consulted with Federal agencies concerning classified national security information that may be affected by the hurricane," according to a September 19 news release. See: http://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2005/nr05-120.html REMEMBERING PHILIP MORRISON Physicist Philip Morrison, a Manhattan Project veteran and former FAS President who died earlier this year, is recalled in an obituary in the latest FAS Public Interest Report by Priscilla McMillan. See: http://www.fas.org/faspir/2005/v58n2/morrison.htm Ms. McMillan's recent book "The Ruin of J. Robert Oppenheimer" was perceptively reviewed by author Thomas Powers, along with several other recent books on Oppenheimer, in the September 22 New York Review of Books: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18268 SELECTED CRS REPORTS Some new or newly acquired reports of the Congressional Research Service obtained by Secrecy News include the following: "Emergency Preparedness and Continuity of Operations (COOP) Planning in the Federal Judiciary," updated September 8, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/secrecy/RL31978.pdf "Legislative Initiatives to Temporarily Relocate Federal Courts Interrupted by Natural or Man-Made Disasters, 109th Congress," September 8, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/secrecy/RS22244.pdf "Continuity of Government: Current Federal Arrangements and the Future," updated August 5, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/secrecy/RS21089.pdf "Homeland Security: Protecting Airspace in the National Capital Region," September 1, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RS22234.pdf "Military Base Closures: A Historical Review from 1988 to 1995," updated October 18, 2004: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/97-305.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - van From: Henny van der Pluijm <h.vanderpluijm.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:24:34 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:46:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - van >From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:46:35 -0400 >Subject: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story >[The Chairman of the Fund for UFO Research, Don Berliner, is an >avid UpDates reader, and uses the Archive to follow posts. But >he wanted to have the following posted as a comment and >forwarded it to me] >----- >Those of you accusing the press of anti-UFO bias and thus of >involvement in some sort of world-wide conspiracy, might >consider this: <snip> It's about eight years since I frequently participated on the List but for some reason I have been browsing through the messages a lot lately. I'd like to share my experiences in the media. During the years 1997 and 1998 I twice proposed writing an article about a UFO-related subject for a serious magazine. In the first instance, on the 50th anniversary of the Roswell incident, the editor of a respected academic weekly rejected the idea simply because he didn't dare publish it. That's what he said himself. It was a disappointing outcome of a months long lobbying process wherein he quite easily gave up his earlier sceptical position on UFOs. But in the end he simply got cold feet. In the second case, I proposed writing a story about the strange case of the company ACC`- American Computer Corporation - and the claims of the alien transistor technology. The editor took it quite seriously and even spoke to the CEO Jack Schulman. But the idea for an article was rejected because it didn't fit into the formula of the magazine. To be honest, the editor was right. The story simply didn't fit into the business model of the magazine that was aimed at IT managers. More about business models later. Shortly after the official USAF report about Roswell was presented in the press, I decided that mainstream media would never take UFOs seriously enough to publish anything of interest about it. After a few years of bugging my colleagues the only thing I had achieved was two articles in an obscure magazine and a lecture. Perhaps my biggest achievement was that I debunked a Dutch Philip Klass-style debunker who subsequently has never written anything anymore about UFOs for the magazine he worked for. But later on I discovered something else. A great UFO story can indeed be a huge story that would overshadow anything else worth reporting, as Berliner says. But in several instances I hit upon other big stories, non-UFO related, that I felt needed broad coverage and, guess what? My proposals to write articles about these subjects got rejected as well. Now, since I started in journalism I have written hundreds of articles for dozens of magazines and only one of these articles ever got rejected. Reason: too late for deadline. But in the five out of five few instances that my research indicated there was a really big story going on there was no way it would be published. Explanation? In the last five years I have specialized in venture capital and innovation. Now I know that everything has a business model. So has journalism. What you must understand is that journalism is a business just like all other businesses. What publishers do is make a profit from advertising income + subscription income costs. What's the point of publishing a story that everyone wants to read? For 99 out of 100 magazines it is true that the largest part of revenues comes from advertising. Oh, some newspapers and some opinion magazines draw most of their income from their readers. But then again. Would the Washington Post sell more newspapers by publishing a great UFO-story? Just look at the number of newspapers you can buy in a bookstore. The numbers dwarf compared to the number of subscribers. So a good story doesn t sell many more newspapers at all and doesn t bring much extra revenues. In fact, even for almost all newspapers it is true that advertising income surpasses subscription income. So what's the point of taking the trouble to investigate UFOs seriously? To present a convincing story would require huge amounts of investigative and editorial time, produce lots of stress and in the end the publisher would only sell a few extra copies at a kiosk. Why bother? The whole point is this. UFOs don't fit into any serious publishing business model. The only places where UFO stories fit are the weird magazines that run a UFO story each month and draw advertisements for head top pyramids. Fringe business models that no sane person would invest much time in. Met vriendelijke groet,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:32:06 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:49:26 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:25:08 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:16:02 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia <snip> >The whole point is that you're basing these restrictions on a >physics that current research is showing to be describing only >limited conditions in our universe - research that is leading to >a larger, more encompassing physics under which the physics of >Newton and Einstein are subsumed. <snip> Bravo Eugene Your mail (in full) sums up modern physics pretty well. We now know that most "matter" in the universe doesn't obey our rules, that most "energy" in the universe is alien to our idea of forces, and that "something" does travel faster than light. Isaac Newton rightly feared - "the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me", and A R Wallace decided - "there is no law of nature yet known to us but may be apparently contravened by the action of more recondite laws or forces". So denial of possibilities is based on what? A few disgruntled academics clinging to outdated "rules". We've hardly wetted our toes in that "ocean of truth". Cheers Ray D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Raelians Recruit In Spain From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:06:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:06:51 -0400 Subject: Raelians Recruit In Spain Source: The Toqueville Connection - Arlinton, Virginia http://www.ttc.org/200509210326.j8l3qaf26695.htm Wednesday, 21 September "Sensual Seminars" And Flying Saucers As French Sect Goes Recruiting In Spain Wednesday, 21 September MADRID, Sept 21 (AFP) - To register it depends on your sexual proclivities. "If you're up for any kind of experience, you get a green bracelet, and a red one you are 'available' but looking for stable partnerships." So says a reporter from Spain's Mundo-TV in describing her initiation for a documentary into the curious Raelian sect. The reporter, 'May', a specialist in hidden camera reports, recounted to AFP how she was inducted into a "sensual seminar" organised by French guru Claude Vorhilon, alias 'Rael', early last month, at a seaside hotel near Barcelona. Antena 3 television last Thursday broadcast the film showing the lives of the 500 participants, either into the scene or just curious after finding out about the existence of the event on the Internet. Among the group were several Spaniards, as well as a greater number of French, Italians and Germans. The cost of the seminar was 600 euros, (730 dollars) or half price for those sharing a room. In the film, Rael is seen laying out his beliefs, some of them inspired by "The possibility of an Island," the most recent work by controversial French writer Michel Houellebecq. Among the more peculiar beliefs is that man was created in laboratories by extra-terrestrials. Rael sees himself as their last prophet, while also defending human cloning and sexuality which knows no bounds. Rael is surrounded by his 'angels', a "harem of 30 to 40 very pretty young women who have sworn in writing never to spurn his advances and to protect him, with their lives if necessary, from all kinds of aggression," according to 'May', who asked to remain anonymous. Aside from Rael himself there is psychologist Daniel Chabot and 'Bishop' Brigitte Boisselier, a French scientist whose Clonaid society announced in 2003 in a barrage of publicity - but no proof whatsoever - that it had created cloned humans. The reporter says that "Rael promises the return of the extra- terrestrials to Earth is imminent but says they will not come until he has built their future embassy in Jerusalem." It is not clear whether he intends to build his celestial chancellery near the Wailing Wall or the Esplanade of Mosques in East Jerusalem. But the guru explains in May's words that, "it will cost 50 million euros (60 million dollars) and so far he has raised only ten." Joining the movement costs 400 euros. The membership contract, which can be accessed on the Raelians' Internet site, stipulates that each member must then hand over to the movement ten percent of his or her revenue. After lessons in the group philosophy, there follow a range of games where participants frolic around blindfolded, girls disguised as boys and vice-versa, in a series of erotic shows on a dance floor. 'May' did not go into the sexual details of what members got up to at night in each other's rooms. "During the day they get you to caress each other and to make love in the evening. Many are seduced by it all. The most bizarre thing is that almost all of them really believe in these stories of extra-terrestrials," she adds. She stayed the course through to a Raelian baptism, involving the guru pressing his hands on her forehead and neck while a flying saucer reputedly takes a sample of her DNA. "The guru told me: 'you are beautiful, I love you.' I avoided his advances. But all the same he made me the Raelians' representative in Spain, saying he had great plans in the country," she concluded. Although the Catholic Church has spoken out at times against such sects there is no law specifically targeting their activities in Spain. Only rarely have cases come to light of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 21 Robbie's Really Out There From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:11:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:11:11 -0400 Subject: Robbie's Really Out There Source: Yahoo! News - UK & Ireland http://uk.news.yahoo.com/20092005/140/robbie-s-really.html Tuesday September 20 [For our British readers --ebk] Robbie's Really Out There Perhaps Robbie Williams should think seriously about getting a new girlfriend... Having too much time on his hands seems to have driven the madcap entertainer to thoughts of aliens. On Chris Evans' Radio 2 show, he revealed: "I've been dreaming every night about UFOs, I can't wait to go to sleep at night. "I think they are definitely on their way, seriously. Mark my words. From now until 2012 - watch out kids." Thanks for the tip-off Robbie, we'll keep our eyes on the skies. The chart-topping singer also mused on his dream job. Let's face it, being an incredibly rich, world-famous pop star and groupie magnet doesn't always cut it. "I'd be a masseur and that's the truth... I don't know what type - hands-on and hands-off - energy healing." We don't think there'd be a shortage of customers. He went on: "I'd love to do that or be a ghostbuster or a UFO person." The Robster joins a fine tradition of celebrity ET enthusiasts. Blue's Lee Ryan claimed he was keen to have sex with an alien.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:50:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:12:33 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Hamilton >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:25:08 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:16:02 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>There are a world of possibilities but I was trying to limit >>this discussion to what is known, or possibly known, to be >>objectively real. I don't have faith in time travel, worm hole >>entrances, or exotic drives or warp drivers, or any of the >>myriad of possible ways to get from here to there at light >>speeds. I understand faith and respect it, but I've lost mine. >Yes, Ed, I understand _exactly_ what you have been trying to do. >I've understood it since your first word. That's the crux of the >problem - what you are trying to do! >We were discussing if star to star travel was possible - if ET >could get from there to here - and if the alleged creature in >the alleged AA film could be from anywhere else but Earth. As >you said above, "I'm trying to limit ..." and that's where the >problem comes in. >Not only are you trying to limit this discussion to entertaining >only certain possibilities (and labelling anything that shows >them to be wrong as 'side-tracking' and the discussion 'going >downhill') but, even worse, you're limiting what is possible - >regarding what humans and ET (assuming he exists) can accomplish >via technology - based on our _earlier_ understanding of science >(physics). >The whole point is that you're basing these restrictions on a >physics that current research is showing to be describing only >limited conditions in our universe - research that is leading to >a larger, more encompassing physics under which the physics of >Newton and Einstein are subsumed. >>and I now see clearly >>what's so exasperating to scientists when they try to argue >>their skeptical views with those who believe we are being >>visited by starships driven by star pilots. >Again, these arguements - these skeptical views - are from >scientists locked into a 'passing physics'. When general >relativity is merged with quantum theory sometime in the future, >I think the 'views' of scientists won't be the skeptical ones >you're embracing now. >Anyway, you're wrong about scientists and their views, even now! >They don't all hold skeptical views. For instance, Stan's a >scientist. He's not handing us the 'skeptical views' regarding >interstellar travel you're telling us about. Do some homework - >he's not the only one! >>"So many times Occam's Razor is evoked to cut to the core of >>plausibility in these discussions and if we all agree there is >>intelligent life in our skies and under our oceans, then Occam >>suggests the more plausible origin of that life is Earth since >>life is already known to exist here. >Be careful, Ed. If you play with razors you might get cut really >bad. Stop swinging Occam's razor at us. You can't fight your way >out of every bad situation you get yourself into with a mere >razor blade; sometimes your opponents are armed with something >bigger and better. The older (old-fashioned) razor blades have >two edges and can cut from both sides. The physics you're using >to justify your limitations to star travel is becoming old- >fashioned at a rapid rate, so you might be wielding something >that cut you in ways you aren't expecting. >You're blurring issues here. You did this too when discussing a >billion year's effect on evolution and on technology. Arguements >against accelerating matter (using reaction rockets) to light >speed are not sound arguements against interstellar travel. >Even if you _can't_ accelerate a ship to light speed (which I >don't believe is a limitation) it doesn't mean intersteller >travel is impossible. It just means you can't accelerate matter >to light speed. The arguement is against a spaceship hitting >light speed, not against whether or not star to star travel is >impossible - two different things. >If you have no sound arguements as to why star to star travel is >impossible then you also have no sound arguement as to 'life >from Earth being the most likely explanation for the alleged AA >creature (and the UFO phenomenon) and no sound arguement that >this is the 'simpler explanation' - and you can't invoke Occam's >razor. >>From where I stand, neither you or anyone else has proven or >even given any sound arguement as to why life from Earth is the >simpler explanation. Prove that this indeed is 'the simpler >explanation' before you invoke Occam's razor. Eugene, I like your reasoning and would like to offer an idea based upon input I have received from various sources regarding the transport of objects in the universe. The restrictive idea that transport from Planet Z to Planet Earth is effected in the same manner as we effect transport using energy to apply force to accelerate a mass over a distance, gradually increasing its velocity until we reach a significant fraction of the speed of light and thus cover more distance in less time is the conventional view, one based on our experience of movement and transport. From time to time we hear tales of the paranormal which are usually ignored by scientists (but not all scientists) where someone is suddenly transported (teleported?) a great distance in a blink of the eye. The hapless person wonders how he was just walking down a street as he does everyday in his home town when he looks up and finds he is still walking down a street, but somewhere in a continent an ocean away. We would dismiss such a tale as absurd or impossible unless, with the testimony of witnesses, his tale is supported by others who saw him disappear off of one street in one country and other witnesses who saw his sudden appearance in their country while he was heard babbling in a strange language. The point is that if we take reports of such phenomena seriously and engaged our curiousity and our techniques of investigation, would we discover that under the right conditions that a form of spontaneous and instantaneous transport happens over long distances in virtually no elapsed time? If we could reproduce this phenomena at will through understanding the mechanisms involved, could we then disappear from any location in local
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 Pennsylvania UFO Video From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:23:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:23:51 -0400 Subject: Pennsylvania UFO Video Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html Pennsylvania UFO Video John Foster's incredible film speaks for itself... Undeniably the best UFO footage ever recorded. There is only one explanation for what you are witnessing here. A craft from another world employing an inter-dimensional cloaking technique, moving in and out of Earth's space at will. The multiple maneuvers, including the under water, and corkscrew techniques rule out all other explanations... Recorded April 27th, 1999, John Foster's film is an incredible piece of UFO history, and has yet to get the credit it deserves. John's quest has spanned a number of years now, and he has some of the most definitive footage on the matter. Often in the UFO community many investigators are cautious about putting their reputations on the line and making the statement "this is a craft from another planet". We don't think we are jumping the gun when we say... This is the best footage of a craft from another planet, place and time! Please forward this to all... Believers or not. Watch for a full analysis of this video and others here on Eyepod.Org. We wish to thank John Foster for coming forward with this footage, and for his time investigating this ever deepening phenomenon. His tireless efforts so we may all know and see the truth deserve applause. FRJ Investigators are urged to contact Frank Riccardi: Director.nul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:19:30 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:26:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - Boone >From: Henny van der Pluijm <h.vanderpluijm.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:24:34 +0200 >Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:46:35 -0400 >>Subject: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story >>[The Chairman of the Fund for UFO Research, Don Berliner, is an >>avid UpDates reader, and uses the Archive to follow posts. But >>he wanted to have the following posted as a comment and >>forwarded it to me] >>----- >>Those of you accusing the press of anti-UFO bias and thus of >>involvement in some sort of world-wide conspiracy, might >>consider this: ><snip> ><snip> >So what's the point of taking the trouble to investigate UFOs >seriously? To present a convincing story would require huge >amounts of investigative and editorial time, produce lots of >stress and in the end the publisher would only sell a few extra >copies at a kiosk. Why bother? >The whole point is this. UFOs don't fit into any serious >publishing business model. The only places where UFO stories fit >are the weird magazines that run a UFO story each month and draw >advertisements for head top pyramids. Fringe business models >that no sane person would invest much time in. >Met vriendelijke groet, >Henny >071 589 4000 >http://www.venturemedia.nl Henny, I'm glad you posted. You sound like a mirror of my adventures. You've sure hit the nail on the head. In addition, journalists are afraid of one thing more than losing money and that is credibility. It's absurd for sure if one were to just glance at the stories that make headlines nowadays. Gossip, celebrities, gossip, more celebrities, ad nauseum. Politics, sports, celebrity gossip are what a reporter is after because it makes their names stand out. Makes a great portfolio too. Money and fame and a sparkling name. Dan Rather just grabbed some headlines for lambasting the new journalists as being afraid to do real journalism. Like what took him so long to figure this out? Because he got the boot for screwing up? No, because he realized he got set up. He's now seeing what I saw 20 years ago when I split. Gangsters and government cronies and corporate henchmen run the news businesses and Rupert Murdoch is the Darth Vader of this ilk. UFOs open the door to imagination and that's dangerous. Ufology leads the mind to pursue the areas of alternate energy, arrested medical and textile technologies that could make things cheaper and better and end centuries of misery. Can't have that! Oh no! Can't have people healthy and wealthy and wise! Ufology can and has opened the doors to corruption on a massive scale and that's a can of worms the powers that be don't want to tackle. Ridicule is a powerful weapon. Fear of the group's perceptions of oneself are what runs the world. Never mind if what you're investigating could save the lives of millions, if someone is going to tease one, one will drop it like a hot burrito. We're social creatures and every once in a while one of us stands up and bucks the trend and makes headway for us all. The greatest courage comes from the besting of the group think
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 Holding Editors To Account From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:55:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:55:43 -0400 Subject: Holding Editors To Account Source: The National Post - Canada http://tinyurl.com/79std Wednesday, September 21, 2005 Holding Editors To Account Andrew Coyne National Post The former Liberal cabinet minister Paul Hellyer, after a long career defending Canadian sovereignty from American incursions, has a new reason to mistrust the United States: UFOs. Specifically, the efforts by successive American governments to conceal from public knowledge the 1947 crash of an alien spacecraft in Roswell, New Mexico. "I believe that UFOs are real," Mr. Hellyer, who who was second to Pierre Trudeau on the first ballot at the 1968 Liberal leadership convention, told the Canadian Press recently. Later this week, he will speak at a convention of UFO enthusiasts in Toronto. "I'll talk about that a little bit and a bit about the fantastic coverup of the United States government and also a little bit of the fallout from the wreckage." By "fallout" he means the adaptation of technologies found in the Roswell craft in subsequent American technical advances. I'd tell you more, but it's just too risky. I feel a certain unease in writing this: It is possible that Mr. Hellyer has simply lost his mind, and it's not right to poke fun at a lunatic. On the other hand, who knows any more? What once were classed as psychological disorders are today considered perfectly normal, while behaviour for which one might previously have been held responsible is now just another form of mental illness. More to the point, what is to distinguish Mr. Hellyer's belief in a massive, decades-long conspiracy by the American government to conceal the existence of alien visitors to planet Earth from, say, Paul William Roberts' belief in a massive, decades-long conspiracy by the American government to create the very Islamist terror network it is now fighting -- not as an accidental "blowback," but as a deliberate strategy to justify more military spending? The first makes you the butt of an oddly-enough piece on the CP wire. The second is worth a three- page, 5,000-word essay in The Globe and Mail. Yet the one has precisely as little plausibility or supporting evidence as the other. Mind you, give it time. Experience teaches that any theory, no matter how crackpot, can gain a respectful hearing in this country, so long as it asks us to believe the worst about the Americans or their government: Anti-Americanism inoculates even the worst cranks from serious scrutiny. Paul Hellyer may not have much of a following now, but depend upon it, he will be packing them in at the universities before long. My colleague Jonathan Kay has already detailed the many factual howlers in the Roberts piece, which somehow "got by" the Globe's fact-checkers. But I rather think something else is at work. The piece would have been planned long in advance. Having written several previous pieces for the Globe, Mr. Roberts would be well-known to the editors, as would his views. For example, readers of his latest book, A War Against Truth, will learn, inter alia, that Saddam Hussein killed many fewer Iraqis than the United States, and with more justification: After all, the hundreds of thousands of Saddam's victims were people "who opposed him in some way." And they will learn the real reason for the failure of Saddam's vaunted Special Republican Guard to show up for battle: They were all vaporized, 40,000 of them at one go, by "some kind of hi-tech bomb" detonated in the warren of tunnels under Baghdad. "Fact-checking," in the circumstances, would seem beside the point. It isn't that Mr. Roberts' piece was, in that fine old journalistic phrase, "too good to check," or that the Globe editors think fact-checking is a tool of imperialism. It's more that it would be, well, gauche -- like the fellow who objects to modern art because it isn't realistic. It may not be true, but it's "true enough." Likewise, when Linda McQuaig explains that the Katrina disaster is a consequence of FEMA having been "privatized," or when Jeremy Clarkson writes feelingly in London's Sun of seeing New Orleans looters blown to bits by helicopter gunships, it isn't true in a conventional, real-world sense. It is rather true in a transcendent, ecstatic sense. We are dealing not so much with a factual matter, in other words, as a psychological one. There is an undeniable pleasure in tweaking the conventional wisdom: I confess to indulging in it at times myself. But what begins as a harmless contrarianism can progress by stages into full-blown conspiracy-theorizing, of which anti-Americanism is a particularly malignant example. The sufferer experiences the thrill of having "pierced the veil." He has seen through the official lies that have everyone else in their thrall, and every piece of evidence to the contrary merely confirms him in his belief. At the furthest extreme, it emerges as Holocaust denial. This puts the student of argument in an uncomfortable position. Convention dictates that every opponent should be treated with courtesy, every argument with respect. But what do we do with arguments that are plainly, well, crazy? Reasonable people can differ, of course, but so can unreasonable people, and we do our worthy opponents no honour by lumping them in with our unworthy opponents. Civilized discussion depends not only on an open-minded readiness to consider other legitimate points of view, but on an equal readiness to exclude the obviously marginal. There is a time and a place to debate whether the Earth goes around the sun or the contrary, but we should have little time to address other matters if we were perpetually revisiting old controversies, or disproving every fantasy. For everyday purposes, we are obliged to exercise some basic judgment: I cannot prove beyond dispute that there are no UFOs, but I am justified by all experience in drawing the inference that there are not. And, when it comes to the public square, we depend on the gatekeepers -- the editors of our newspapers, the publishers of our books, to exercise that judgment on our behalf. If they fail in that duty, the result is intellectual anarchy, where every opinion, no matter how nonsensical, is of equal validity and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:39:19 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:58:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - Boone >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:34:57 -0500 >Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story ><snip> >Some reporters (and editors) I know are intrigued by the UFO >story, but not to the point where they will take a leave of >absence or mind to pursue the matter. >It's a matter of existential priorities, as Berliner stated, not >a matter of curiosity or potential fame. If anything, reporters >and media are mundane for the most part. But you all know that >already. >Rich Reynolds >Director >Fort Wayne MediaWatch Rich tells the truth! It's a tough antenna to chew, but it's the truth. Anyone got a tally on the percentage of Ufologists who die rich and peacefully? Anyone got a tally on reporters who investigate UFOs who are still working, rich, and happily married? Everyone in journalism knows you don't-touch-UFOs-seriously if you want to live. How difficult an equation is that? Seriously, make a tally of colleagues past and present in Ufology or journalism who are doing just peachy-keen. I'm sure you'll find out why journalists won't do Ufology justice.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Response To The Space Review - Kimball From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:07:05 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:02:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Kimball >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:47:42 -0300 >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:48:38 EDT >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:56:32 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 21:08:31 EDT Subject: >>>>Re: Response To the Space Review Don: <snip> >>The point was the people within ufology sometimes do the >>same sort of thing with the facts, and when they do, it's just >>as wrong. People should have all of the information, and then >>make up their minds accordingly. >That's a forced win situation, Paul. How can we get all of the >information. The best we can do is keep it out there and those >that are convinced that there is a hard core to this phenomenon >have to make sure it stays alive. The fact that many of us take >heat from our peers and contemporaies and stick with it should >count for something. But I sure as hell don't have to sit and >take simple-minded nonsense from a wet behind the ear, nothing to >fear, doesn't hav to explain him/herself reporter who knows >nothing about the phenomenon. You're focusing on the wrong problem here, Don. It's easy to blame the wet behind the ears reporters, as you call them, for all of ufology's ills, but look at it from their perspective. Let's suppose they tune into UFO Updates for a few weeks, and follow the discussions. Yes, they'll see the serious researchers, but they'll also see the likes of Michael Salla, and Adamski defenders (does nothing in ufology ever die??), conspiracy theorists, and attack dogs like Alfred Lehmberg (he also qualifies under the "conspiracy theorist" category). All of whom are placed on an equal footing with the serious researchers, like you. There is such a thing as "nuts by association." Real science - that which ufology longs to be considered as - doesn't do this. The aforementioned fringers have no place there. It's one of the reasons SETI seems respectable when compared to ufology, even though ufology can mount just as much evidence - or more - than SETI does to support its claims to be taken seriously. So, when journalists take the "hey, it's all a bit nutty approach," ufology needs to ask itself who is really to blame. The aforementioned people are free to create their own forums, and scream to the wind if they want. But when serious researchers allow them equal billing on their forums - well, you reap what you sow. Of course, this is all secondary to my original point, which was that there are those in ufology who are as guilty of selective quoting of evidence, in order to bolster their case, as there are in the government or the media - and that the one is as wrong as the other. <snip> >>You should know that this isn't how it works. Everyone is >>trying to make a case. The key is, as I said, not to >>misrepresent the data. >Well the press and some air forces have been doing a great job >of that. We have our own stars-in-their-eyes, gee-whiz kids to >contend with. And usually it's those we have to defend ourselves >from to the debunkers. They class them right in with those that >do collect data ad nauseum. Like I said, "nuts by association." But there's a way to deal with this - show some discipline, make the hard choices, and cast the nuts out. After all, if you had cancer, would you just let it sit, in the hopes that it would go away on its own, or that it was best to just ignore it? Not unless you were an idiot. These people are ufology's cancer. The time has come to let them rant on their own time, and their own dime. Freedom of speech requires you to defend what a person says, no matter how wacked out it is. It doesn't require that you actually provide that person with a forum to say it in. Besides, they'll always have Jeff Rense's show and website, where they can share equal billing with anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers until the cows come home. ><snip> >>>Finally there seems to be a bias in favor of some >>>intelligence that has been inhabiting this planet as long as >>>or longer than us [despite absolutely no proof] or some >>>inter dimensional traveler intelligence now in vogue since >>>the introduction of String Theory and the possibility of >>>parallel universes, rather than the possibility of some >>>extraterrestrial intelligence. What makes one more favorable >>>than the others? What is this ETH phobia that is so >>>prevalent amongst UFO researchers? I don't know if this >>>phenomenon is the cause of some extraterrestrial intelligence >>>and/or these objects are controlled by same, >>>but if it turned out to be the case, I wouldn't be surprised >>>by it. >>I think you're joking here, but if not... >>Don, now c'mon. An "anti-ETH" bias amongst UFO researchers? >>You can't be serious?? The majority of UFO researchers still >>skew towards the ETH as the most probable explanation (more >>than a few accept it as the ETF, or Extraterrestrial Fact). >>The truth is that they're all still theories, each with some >>validity and some proponents. It's up to the individual to >>decide which one they think might have the most validity, but >>only after examining the possibilities inherent in all of >>them. >I'm not joking. You haven't been on this List - and others - as >long as I have, Paul. I'm often surprised at how many researchers >aren't up to openly endorsing ETI as the possibility for the >existence of the UFO phenomenon. Your "now c'mon" comment above >is knee-jerk in that regard. Many will approach the "saucer" >hatch but won't go through it. And re theories, the String >Theory is still just a theory as well. Theories abound in every >field. Don, you miss the point. The ETH is the dominant theory within ufology. Stan Friedman, Kevin Randle, Karl Pflock, Bruce Maccabee, Dick Hall, Jerry Clark, you, and so many more, all accept it as a valid theory, and many of you promote it as a Fact (Stan, Kevin, Bruce, Karl, for example). No-one in ufology that I've seen is afraid of the ETH. What they ARE afraid of, it seems, is alternate theories, like the EDH, especially when someone in science begins to speculate that it might be more probable an explanation than the ETH. The truth is that, as you say, they are all just theories. Each individual can determine for themselves which one makes more sense (I favour the ETH, for the record, and have never been afraid to say so, even as I always remind people that it's just one theory). But to say that the ETH is not the dominant theory amongst the majority of serious ufologists is just not supported by the facts. <snip> >Source: This Is Local London.Com >http://tinyurl.com/9a2t4 >Saturday 17th September 2005 >UFOs Above Loughton >By Guardian-series >"Loughton was visited by aliens in bright triangular orbs on >Saturday night or so some residents believe." >Says the reporter with nothing to support this. It's a common >ploy used by the media all of the time. They don't actually have >anyone that says that to them; they just make it up. Steve >Murphy's Live at 5 copy [not about UFOs] is sprinkled with these >comments ["but others are not so sure"]all of the time on just >about every subject. You have the person on camera who actually >makes the statement and the media counters with 'others' or '>some' without actually proving this. Don, here you're charging the reporter with lying. That's pretty serious. Do you have any proof of this? Do you know the reporter didn't actually talk to some residents who believed the bright triangular orbs were aliens? In short, how do you know that he wasn't reporting what he saw and heard from the people on the ground? >This morning there was another piece: >Source: The Weston Mercury - Weston-Super-Mare, Somerset, UK >http://tinyurl.com/7vnj6 >16th September 2005 >UFO Spotted Over Worle >"In a scene straight out of the X files, residents in Worle >spotted a UFO hovering over their neighbourhood." >What lousy reporting. Set the whacko theme right off the bat. >There, I've done my job and I've come out clean. But Don, it's not entirely inaccurate reporting. If residents of Worle did spot a UFO hovering over their neighbourhood, then it is like "a scene straight out of the X-Files." It might not be the way in which you would want the reporter to frame the story (indeed, I would not have framed it that way), but it's accurate, and may well have been designed to give readers a point of reference to which they could easily relate. And, again, as for setting the wacko theme, ufology does that itself, by treating the likes of Rense, Salla, Lehmberg, Paola Harris, etc., on an equal footing with the likes of Hall, Clark, Maccabee, Swiatek, or Sparks. >Why not just present the facts and let the reader decide >instead of giving them a gentle shove in the reporter's biased >direction? Goose and gander, Don, goose and gander. For example, when discussing Wilbert Smith and his "Top Secret" memo, how many ufologists have noted that Omand Solandt, who really was involved in top secret work, stated: "Most, if not all, of Smith's work was never really classified top secret or anything else. He never had any institutional base which gave him authority to classify a document. He just put TOP Secret on his personal papers. DRB may have temporarily classified some of his work, but it was quickly declassified." This is backed up by the facts, at least in my opinion, for those willing to look, but the key point here is how many ufologists have actually referenced this when speaking about Smith? Very, very few. And when they do, they always state something to the effect of, "well, Solandt must have been lying." Uh huh. That's not a "gentle shove" in the ufologist's direction, Don - it's a hard push. And it's just one example out of many. You're right about one thing. I haven't been around as long as you. But that doesn't mean that I can't see clearly that many of ufology's problems, which are blamed on others (i.e. the government and the media) are in large part of their own making. I understand that this isn't a terribly popular point of view within ufology. But ask yourself this question - if you were a reporter, or film / television producer / director, looking in on ufology, would you be inclined to take it seriously these days? The fact that any of us do is a testament to the strength of the evidence. The fact that more of my contemporaries do not is as much ufology's problem as it is theirs.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:14:26 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:09:58 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Friedman >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:16:54 -0700 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:15:18 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:01:56 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up ><snip> >>The notion of governments keeping UFOs secret indefinitely is >>one of the most absurd ideas in ufology. The technical term for >>educated people, who should know better, propagating this belief >>is "intellectual dishonesty". >On the face of it, your argument is almost logical, but delving >deeper reveals flaws and fallacies. The notion that governments >are keeping UFOs secret is absurd as you say, but the notion >that they are keeping their involvement with UFOs secret is >really what we are saying not as a matter of entertainment or >propaganda, but as a matter of following the evidence. >The first and foremost secret involvement was that of our own >army air force when encountering unidentified aerial objects >during WW II and not knowing their origin or purpose and >surmising that it might be an enemy's development in aviation >technology that outpaces our own. Classifying the existence of a >possible enemy weapon as secret is not unusual or entertainment >by any stretch of the imagination. >With the recovery of actual alien machines the escalation of >security and secrecy follows while those in charge try to keep >down the public snoopers and hide our studies from the world in >order to gain a military advantage. It is logical, possible, and >evidence says it is probable. I don't call that "intellectual >dishonesty". I call it reasonable. There is nothing at all absurd about governments keeping the best data (crashes, destruction of aircraft, etc) secret. Just this past week the NRO, for the first time, admitted it had launched and operated with several other agencies, a number of POPPY Satellites between 1962 and 1971 to monitor electronic information from Soviet ships at sea. Average time in orbit was 34 months. Lots of money and people. Totally secret. The Eisenhower Library admits it still has 300,000 pages of classified documents. The NSA has released 156 UFO documents that are almost entirely whited out except for 1-3 lines per page. The CIA still won't release what is under the blacked-out material covering all but 8 words in some of its UFO documents. The problem is that the press isn't digging into the CosmicWatergate. Nobody has followed up on General Bolender's 1969 comment that reports of UFOs which could effect national security are _not_ part of the Blue Book System.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 PRG Update - September 22, 2005 From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 06:58:50 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:38:09 -0400 Subject: PRG Update - September 22, 2005 PRG Paradigm Research Group Toronto Exopolitics Symposium www.exopoliticstoronto.com Sunday, September 25, 9:30 am - 3:45 pm University of Toronto Convocation Hall The symposium developed by Mike Bird and Victor Viggiani will break new ground. It will mark the first time in history that any defense minister or secretary of defense of any first world nation (and possibly any nation) will state publicly that he or she is convinced the UFO phenomenon is extraterrestrial in origin. Historian Richard Dolan will lead off with a solid summary of the national security measures taken in the US to address and suppress the UFO question. Stanton Friedman will expand on this based upon his 40 years of research. Former Canadian Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister, Paul Hellyer, will speak. PRG's executive director, Stephen Bassett, will close with the keynote. (Paola Harris has taken ill and will not be able to present.) While the top echelon media organizations in the United States (ABC, NBC, CBS News, Washington Post, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, etc.) have supported the US Government imposed truth embargo, either freely or under threat, the Canadian press is not so influenced. Consequently, there has been considerable coverage of this event and Hellyer's pending remarks by the major newspapers in Canada. There will be many press in attendance. If Canada were to break ranks with the United States on the matter of the extraterrestrial presence, the truth embargo would collapse. Please attend, if you can. Exopolitics International Lecture Tour A press release will go out today announcing the Toronto Symposium marks the beginning of a national and international ecture tour by Stephen Bassett under the umbrella theme: The Exopolitics of Disclosure: Why the Truth Embargo Regarding an Extraterrestrial Presence Engaging the Human Race Must End Now. The next stop will be the Avalon Theatre in Easton, MD. Stephen will then go to Rende, Italy to speak at the University of Calabria. Then on to Santa Clara, CA. The lectures will either be produced by PRG or by invitation. The goal is to stand on the soil of every nation and call for the United States Government to end the embargo preventing the people of the planet earth from knowing the truth about their world. This tour will continue until Disclosure has been achieved. Anyone interested in sponsoring a lecture in their country should contact PRG at: ParadigmRG.nul All upcoming lectures will be announced at: www.paradigmclock.com/speaking&eventschedule.html Earth Station Roswell www.earthstationroswell.com PRG formally endorses the developing project led by Gene Frazier and Tom Armstrong to build a unique resort in Roswell, New Mexico which celebrates all aspects of the unfolding paradigm change heading this way. It is a grassroots effort not springing from the big corporate arena. It seeks to involve and honor the researchers and activists who have been working for nearly six decades to uncover the evidence and resolve the political policies preventing formal awareness of the extraterrestrial presence. Gene and Tom have done an excellent job in building the architectural, conceptual and marketing foundation for this project. PRG hopes they are successful in securing the funding and the land needed to make this very cool idea a reality. PRG also hopes that all of the folks in Roswell who are aware of their city's special place in the history now unfolding will not underestimate just how big the coming opportunities will be and work together to create a plethora of projects that will make Roswell a vibrant oasis in the post disclosure world. Peter Jennings' Passing Much has already been written and said about the death of ABC News' longtime anchor. Here are two items of addendum: Peter Jennings knew he had serious cancer before his UFO special aired. Nevertheless, he made the rounds of all the networks, personally promoted this project and allowed it to be his last significant journalistic contribution. While "Peter Jennings Reporting: UFOs - Seeing is Believing" was flawed, it made many strong points to a large audience. PRG believes those with professional and financial stature in the United States usually know more about the extraterrestrial question then they publicly acknowledge. The more your accomplishments, the more you have to lose. In the end with much less to lose, Peter Jennings took on the greatest issue of his time. If only he had spoken his mind with complete candidness before departing. Jennings' death from lung cancer once again brought to the surface the appalling statistics which surround this disease. The most profound secular event in human history is soon to take place. The aftermath will be compelling without historical precedent PRG invites all of its supporters and colleagues who smoke to consider this and choose not to trade in their front row seat to the greatest show of all time for what the cigarette companies are selling. ________________________________________________________ Paradigm Research Group
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 Summary Of Mexican UFO Cases September 2005 From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:09:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:04:11 -0400 Subject: Summary Of Mexican UFO Cases September 2005 Dear Readers, Please see the report from Prof. Ana Luisa Cid: http://tinyurl.com/8gxty Kind regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 22 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:09:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hatch >Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org >http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html >Pennsylvania UFO Video >John Foster's incredible film speaks for itself... >Undeniably the best UFO footage ever recorded. There is only one >explanation for what you are witnessing here. >A craft from another world employing an inter-dimensional >cloaking technique, moving in and out of Earth's space at will. >The multiple maneuvers, including the under water, and corkscrew >techniques rule out all other explanations... <snip> That sounds a bit over the top to me. Anyone care to view the video and comment? My old machine probably can't handle the required plug-in. Thanks
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 3rd Crash Conf Keynote Address by Jim Marrs From: Ryan S. Wood <majesticdocuments.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:37:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:33:39 -0400 Subject: 3rd Crash Conf Keynote Address by Jim Marrs Jim Marrs To Give Banquet Keynote: Will The Rocket Engine Go The Way Of The Dodos? Broomfield CO - Thursday September 22, 2005 - There you have it! Another good reason to visit Las Vegas and attend the 3rd Annual UFO Crash Conference, November 4-6th www.ufoconference.com. Below is the abstract of the Marrs talk - Will The Rocket Engine Go The Way Of The Dodos? We have come a long way since the days of the 1950s, when the big question concerning "flying saucers" was "Do they come from Mars or Venus?" Today, a much more sophisticated audience asks about worm holes, hyper-dimensional travel and electro-magnetic wave energy. Cutting edge physics is rapidly bringing thoughtful persons to the point of at least understanding the concepts which may begin to explain the propulsion systems of UFOs. But is this something truly new and modern or are we just now rediscovering technology that may have existed on the Earth thousands of years ago? Was this technology depicted in the Bible and the ancient Hindu Vedas? The national security state of Germany during World War II by all accounts was on the track of such technology and there is evidence that the new national security state of the United States has secretly continued this work. There is even tantalizing evidence to suggest that the impetuous attack on Iraq may have been more about the desire to gain control over ancient technology than to obtain new oil supplies. Whichever nation can first control energy at the atomic and sub- atomic level will become the leader in the search for free and clean energy production, faster-than-light speed, anti-gravity and perhaps even dimensional and time travel. How close are we to such technology? Have we reached it already? Join us this year and sign up on line at www.ufoconference.com, or call me and we can do it over the phone, faxes and mail work too. If you need more information or would like to talk with me personally please call 720-887-8171. Take Advantage of a $40 discount if two people sign up and stay in one conference hotel room. You will save $100 by sharing room and an extra $40 from the conference. A $140 savings! Looking forward to seeing you there and having a great time. Sincerely, Ryan S. Wood Conference Chairman rswood.nul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:52:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:36:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:34:57 -0500 >Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:46:35 -0400 >>Subject: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story <snip> >Don Berliner is almost right... >While any reporter would love to win a Pulitzer for unmasking >the UFO enigma, reporters have little or no say over what their >Editors or Publishers or News Directors want to produce for >their papers or television/radio newscasts. >Reporters are grunts, under stiff deadlines usually. To delve >into the UFO mess would require a pass from that grunt work, and >who is going to assign someone, in an already diminished or >overworked news-room, a sabbatical to research and write about a >mystery with no obvious answer, and no light at the end of the >UFO tunnel? >Some reporters (and editors) I know are intrigued by the UFO >story, but not to the point where they will take a leave of >absence or mind to pursue the matter. >It's a matter of existential priorities, as Berliner stated, not >a matter of curiosity or potential fame. If anything, reporters >and media are mundane for the most part. But you all know that >already. The Peter Jennings show almost accomplished what a single reporter couldn't do,namely, provide a comprehensive report on the UFO phenomenon. Jennings himself didn't have the time, one supposes,to do all the necessary research. Therefore he hired researchers. This is how all(?) the documentaries are done nowadays on UFOs. The History Channel, the Discovery Channel, etc. all present shows that have been created by generally small companies that do docu's. I think the real reason for failure to "do their duty" and report honestly is based on the "self-cover-up" principle that I have enunciated before (basically no one wants this to be true -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Secrecy News -- 09/22/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:50:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:51:24 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/22/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 91 September 22, 2005 ** HOUSE INTEL COMMITTEE BEGINS HEARINGS ON LEAKS ** GUIDELINES FOR ACCESS TO GEOSPATIAL DATA ** US ARMY WEAPONS SYSTEM HANDBOOK ** ABLE DANGER HEARING ** A CITIZEN'S GUIDE TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT HOUSE INTEL COMMITTEE BEGINS HEARINGS ON LEAKS The first of a series of congressional hearings on the unauthorized disclosure of classified information was held last week by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. The closed hearing featured "a representative of the intelligence community" who discussed the consequences of such unauthorized disclosures. Committee chairman Pete Hoekstra (R-Mich.) said the committee will hold open hearings on the issue in the future. He indicated that no legislation on unauthorized disclosure is pending before the committee and that no decision has been made to introduce a bill, according to a September 14 news release. See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/09/hpsci091405.pdf Meanwhile, the Committee voted on party lines to reject a resolution requesting that the executive branch provide documents on the unauthorized disclosure of the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame. When it comes to leaks, the Republican majority said, "the House must focus on the problem broadly rather than focusing solely on any specific case." Democrats said "the Committee missed a critical opportunity to exercise appropriate and responsible oversight of this serious matter." See the House Intelligence Committee report on the resolution here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_rpt/hrpt109-228.html GUIDELINES FOR ACCESS TO GEOSPATIAL DATA Official guidelines for deciding whether and how to permit public access to geospatial data -- such as maps and satellite imagery -- have recently been issued by the Federal Geographic Data Committee of the U.S. Geological Survey. "In the United States many public and private organizations and individuals originate geospatial data and make them available to the public," the Guidelines note. "Because of this condition centralized control of information is not viable and decision making about the sensitivity and safeguarding of geospatial data will be decentralized." To assist in such decentralized decision making, the Guidelines define general procedures for identifying sensitive information and weighing the risks and benefits of disclosure. See "Guidelines for Providing Appropriate Access to Geospatial Data in Response to Security Concerns," Federal Geographic Data Committee, June 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/fgdc0605.pdf US ARMY WEAPONS SYSTEM HANDBOOK The 2005 U.S. Army Weapons System Handbook, a descriptive catalog of dozens of current and near-term weapons systems used by the U.S. Army, is now available on the Federation of American Scientists web site. Previous editions of the Handbook were routinely made available on Army web sites. But along with many thousands of other unclassified documents, they were withdrawn from online public access a few years ago when the Army moved much of its web-based content behind a password-protected portal called Army Knowledge Online. A softcopy of the new edition was obtained by Secrecy News. The unclassified Handbook is not sensitive, even by government standards. A hardcopy of the publication can still be purchased through the Government Printing Office. But the online version was a casualty of the Army's retreat from the web, until now. See the 2005 U.S. Army Weapons System Handbook here: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/wsh/index.html ABLE DANGER HEARING The Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing yesterday on ABLE DANGER, the Defense Department intelligence program that may or may not have identified Mohamed Atta and other September 11 hijackers a year or more before they struck. The hearing ended inconclusively after the Pentagon refused to permit several witnesses to testify, citing classification concerns. "That looks to me as if it may be obstruction of the committee's activities," said Judiciary Committee chair Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa). "The Senate Intelligence Committee, as I understand it, has jurisdiction over this matter and is looking into it," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters in response. "Second, the department, I'm told, offered a classified briefing because the subject matter was classified," Rumsfeld said. "And as I understand it, the Judiciary Committee preferred to have an open hearing on a classified matter, and therefore the department declined to participate in an open hearing on a classified matter." The prepared testimony from the September 21 Judiciary Committee hearing is available here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_hr/index.html A September 1 Pentagon press briefing on ABLE DANGER is available here: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2005/09/dod090105.html A CITIZEN'S GUIDE TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT The House Committee on Government Reform has published a new edition of its popular "Citizen's Guide on Using the Freedom of Information Act and the Privacy Act of 1974 to Request Government Records." The Guide, first published in 1977, "is one of the most widely read congressional committee reports in history," the new edition says. A copy of the updated Guide, House Report 109-226, September 20, 2005, is available here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/citizen.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Response To The Space Review - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:44:36 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:06:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review - Ledger >From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:07:05 EDT >Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:47:42 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >>>From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul>To: >>>ufoupdates.nul Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 >>>17:48:38 EDT Subject: Re: Response To The Space Review >Don: ><snip> >>>The point was the people within ufology sometimes do the >>>same sort of thing with the facts, and when they do, it's >>>just as wrong. People should have all of the information, >>>and then make up their minds accordingly. >>That's a forced win situation, Paul. How can we get all of >>the information. The best we can do is keep it out there and >>those that are convinced that there is a hard core to this >>phenomenon have to make sure it stays alive. The fact that >>many of us take heat from our peers and contemporaies and >>stick with it should count for something. But I sure as hell >>don't have to sit and take simple-minded nonsense from a wet >>behind the ear, nothing to fear, doesn't hav to explain >>him/herself reporter who knows nothing about the phenomenon. >You're focusing on the wrong problem here, Don. It's easy to >blame the wet behind the ears reporters, as you call them, for >all of ufology's ills, but look at it from their perspective. I'm not blaming the reporters for all of ufologys ills. Where did I say that? I'm being specific as to their problematic methods and blaming many of them for lousy reporting and less than honest reporting methods. Attacking first the whole phenomenon by tainting it with such nonsense as Little green men, space aliens, Men from Mars and "flying saucers" skews the whole piece from the get-go, and by association smears the the witness into the bargain. That is not being objective. The reporter has put his or her cards on the table with the reader in the first line of the article and basically dares the reader to see the articles following information in any other way than that it is nonsense. And what does this do? It gives the witnesses in the story pause as to ever reporting such a thing again. This could be a couple of police officers, an airline pilot or a dockworker who now might endure the giggles of their peers. How can this help anything? For some thirty five years I worked with the press on a daily basis and out of the hundreds that I came across only perhaps ten were good reporters, by anyone's standards. This is a line I don't wish to pursue because I don't want to get into the position of bashing people who I've worked with, many of whom you might have or still do know. But I know well the frailties of the type. >Let's suppose they tune into UFO Updates for a few weeks, and >follow the discussions. Most won't do that. They are not that dedicated. >Yes, they'll see the serious researchers, but they'll also see >the likes of Michael Salla, and Adamski defenders (does nothing >in ufology ever die??), conspiracy theorists, Yet there are conspiracies, are their not. >and attack dogs like Alfred Lehmberg (he also qualifies under >the "conspiracy theorist" category). I'm in the unique position of knowing both of you and neither of you is like you each make the other out. >All of whom are placed on an equal footing with the serious >researchers, like you. >There is such a thing as "nuts by association." And often a reporter will imply that from the opening line in his/her article. >Real science - that which ufology longs to be considered as - >doesn't do this. This depends on which field of science you refer to, but I don't long to be considered as a scientist. >The aforementioned fringers have no place there. It's one of >the reasons SETI seems respectable when compared to ufology, >even though ufology can mount just as >much evidence - or more - >than SETI does to support its claims >to be taken seriously. To suggest that science itself has no fringers would be inaccurate. And science has been less than honest in many areas and its practitioners suffer from the same doubts and foibles as every other walk of life. Right now String Theory proponents are the fringers of science but with a great deal of evidence to support their theory. And I take issue with your statement that SETI having as much evidence as ufology-or more- to support it. Theirs is scant compared to the volumes that have been chronicled over the years in this field. But I have no problem with their contention that this universe of ours is teeming with intelligent life. >So, when journalists take the "hey, it's all a bit nutty >approach," ufology needs to ask itself who is really to blame. They are. They are supposed to consider each piece on it's own merits, not ascribe motive and belief on the basis of untutored and vague remembrances of things they seen on TV and been told. They are impressing their own uneducated biases on the public and sending the message "This is what I will do to you if you dare to report these things. I'll make you look like an idiot as well." Whether this is their intent doesn't matter, that's how it comes across. >The aforementioned people are free to create their own forums, >and scream to the wind if they want. But when serious researchers >allow them equal billing on their forums - well, you reap what you >sow. >Of course, this is all secondary to my original point, which >was that there are those in ufology who are as guilty of >selective quoting of evidence, in order to bolster their case, >as there are in the government or the media - and that the one >is as wrong as the other. I can't argue with that. My method is, if it's soft evidence or there's serious [and I stress serious, not frivolous and laughable, and in many cases outrageous ] explantions-that cover all of the parameters of the report refute a report, then dump it and move on. ><snip> >>>You should know that this isn't how it works. Everyone is >>>trying to make a case. The key is, as I said, not to >>>misrepresent the data. >>Well the press and some air forces have been doing a great >>job of that. We have our own stars-in-their-eyes, gee-whiz >>kids to contend with. And usually it's those we have to >>defend ourselves >>from to the debunkers. They class them right in with those >>that do collect data ad nauseum. >Like I said, "nuts by association." But there's a way to deal >with this - show some discipline, make the hard choices, and >cast the nuts out. >After all, if you had cancer, would you just let it sit, in >the hopes that it would go away on its own, or that it was >best to just ignore it? No but the only problem is, unless you hear out all of the theories, you are in danger of missing that one off the wall theory that works. >These people are ufology's cancer. The time has come to let >them rant on their own time, and their own dime. Freedom of >speech requires you to defend what a person says, no matter >how wacked out it is. It doesn't require that you actually >provide that person with a forum to say it in. I admit that back in my younger days, in my fifties, I would have subscribed to this closing of the shop to anyone but those that thought my way. It's a heady premise but then you get into where to draw that line. Who gets to speak and who doesn't, who decides where this line is drawn. Which persuasions get respectability [at least to us] and which don't. I can see arguments going on for years about just that subject let alone the dozens of others we have now. Science has done this and suffered because of it. >Besides, they'll always have Jeff Rense's show and website, where they can share equal billing with anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers until the cows come home. I thought it was just me, but even there you will find the occasional piece of information that once investigated proves fruitful. >><snip> >>>>Finally there seems to be a bias in favor of some i >>>>intelligence that has been inhabiting this planet as >>>>long as or longer than us [despite absolutely no proof] >>>>or some inter dimensional traveler intelligence now in >>>>vogue since the introduction of String Theory and the >>>>possibility of parallel universes, rather than the >>>>possibility of some extraterrestrial intelligence. What >>>>makes one more favorable than the others? What is this >>>>ETH phobia that is so prevalent amongst UFO researchers? >>>>I don't know if this phenomenon is the cause of some >>>>extraterrestrial intelligence and/or these objects are >>>>controlled by same, but if it turned out to be the case, >>>>I wouldn't be surprised by it. >>>I think you're joking here, but if not... Don, now c'mon. >>>An "anti-ETH" bias amongst UFO researchers? You can't be >>>serious?? The majority of UFO researchers still skew >>>towards the ETH as the most probable explanation (more >>>than a few accept it as the ETF, or Extraterrestrial >>>Fact). The truth is that they're all still theories, each >>>with some validity and some proponents. It's up to the >>>individual to decide which one they think might have the >>>most validity, but only after examining the possibilities >>>inherent in all of them. >>I'm not joking. You haven't been on this List - and others - >>as long as I have, Paul. I'm often surprised at how many >>researchers aren't up to openly endorsing ETI as the >>possibility for the existence of the UFO phenomenon. Your >>"now c'mon" comment above is knee-jerk in that regard. Many >>will approach the "saucer" hatch but won't go through it. >>And re theories, the String Theory is still just a theory as >>well. Theories abound in every field. >Don, you miss the point. The ETH is the dominant theory within >ufology. Stan Friedman, Kevin Randle, Karl Pflock, Bruce >Maccabee, Dick Hall, Jerry Clark, you, and so many more, all >accept it as a valid theory, and many of you promote it as a >Fact (Stan, Kevin, Bruce, Karl, for example). No-one in >ufology >that I've seen is afraid of the ETH. The point is not missed but blunted by my self-righteous armor. And I take exception to your list. As for Stan and myself, yes, but the others, to my knowledge have never come out in favor of the ETH where it relates to the UFO question. >What they ARE afraid of, it seems, is alternate theories, like >the EDH, especially when someone in science begins to >speculate that it might be more probable an explanation than >the ETH. In my case, I think there's probably some validity to the EDH [and I'm not afraid of it] but it just seems to me that if you wanted to apply Occum's to this, the ETH is less troublesome. But it may prove to be that both apply. >The truth is that, as you say, they are all just theories. >Each individual can determine for themselves which one makes >more sense (I favour the ETH, for the record, and have never >been afraid to say so, even as I always remind people that >it's just one theory). But to say that the ETH is not the >dominant theory amongst the majority of serious ufologists is >just not supported by the facts. Well, welcome aboard. But again I must trot out my years on this list and express to you my surprise that indeed it seems to be just the opposite. The short list you mentioned have indicated in many ways that they are not prepared to sign on to the ETH as a possible explanation yet, but remain open to the theory that this is some home grown phenomenon and or psychological aberration. I'll leave it up to the short list to speak for themselves. ><snip> >>Source: This Is Local London.Com >>http://tinyurl.com/9a2t4 >>Saturday 17th September 2005 >>UFOs Above Loughton By Guardian-series >>"Loughton was visited by aliens in bright triangular orbs on >>Saturday night or so some residents believe." >>Says the reporter with nothing to support this. It's a >>common ploy used by the media all of the time. They don't >>actually have anyone that says that to them; they just make >>it up. Steve Murphy's Live at 5 copy [not about UFOs] is >>sprinkled with these comments ["but others are not so >>sure"]all of the time on just about every subject. You have >>the person on camera who actually makes the statement and >>the media counters with 'others' or 'some' without actually >>proving this. >Don, here you're charging the reporter with lying. That's >pretty serious. Do you have any proof of this? Do you know the >reporter didn't actually talk to some residents who believed >the bright triangular orbs were aliens? If he/she did Paul, he would have mentioned it. At best it's fabrication, at worst lying regardless of the nature of the story. Examine the quote: "Loughton was visited by aliens in bright triangular orbs on Saturday night or so some residents believe." The line makes it look as though some residents believe that they were visited by aliens but it never actually says that they believed this. But they have said that there were "..bright triangular orbs on Saturday night.." >In short, how do you know that he wasn't reporting what he saw >and heard from the people on the ground? Again if he had he would have mentioned it to make his piece more believable and himself a fact finding reporter. Reporters like to inject themselves in a story if they think it will either heighten the impact of the story, give it more immediacy or better yet gain him or her some brownie points. >>This morning there was another piece: >>Source: The Weston Mercury - Weston-Super-Mare, Somerset, UK >>http://tinyurl.com/7vnj6 >>16th September 2005 >>UFO Spotted Over Worle >>"In a scene straight out of the X files, residents in Worle >>spotted a UFO hovering over their neighbourhood." >>What lousy reporting. Set the whacko theme right off the >>bat. There, I've done my job and I've come out clean. >But Don, it's not entirely inaccurate reporting. If residents >of Worle did spot a UFO hovering over their neighbourhood, >then it is like "a scene straight out of the X-Files." The X-files was a work of fiction. Therefore it follows.... It might not be >the way in which you would want the reporter to frame the >story (indeed, I would not have framed it that way), but it's >accurate, How can it be accurate when the X-files was a work of fiction? >and may well have been designed to give readers a >point of reference to which they could easily relate. If so it's plain lazy. And UFOs have been around a lot longer than the X-files and I doubt the public needs this point of reference. But again it doesn't hurt the reporter's stock with his peers. >And, again, as for setting the wacko theme, ufology does that >itself, by treating the likes of Rense, Salla, Lehmberg, >Paola Harris, etc., on an equal footing with the likes of >Hall, Clark, Maccabee, Swiatek, or Sparks. >>Why not just present the facts and let the reader decide >>instead of giving them a gentle shove in the reporter's >>biased direction? >Goose and gander, Don, goose and gander. For example, when >discussing Wilbert Smith and his "Top Secret" memo, how many >ufologists have noted that Omand Solandt, who really was >involved in top secret work, stated: >"Most, if not all, of Smith's work was never really classified >top secret or anything else. He never had any institutional >base which gave him authority to classify a document. He just >put TOP Secret on his personal papers. DRB may have >temporarily classified some of his work, but it was quickly >declassified." >This is backed up by the facts, at least in my opinion, for >those willing to look, but the key point here is how many >ufologists have actually referenced this when speaking about >Smith? Very, very few. And when they do, they always state >something to the effect of, "well, Solandt must have been >lying." >Uh huh. >That's not a "gentle shove" in the ufologist's direction, Don >- it's a hard push. And it's just one example out of many. Wiburt Smith has never been of real interest to me. I have some of the project reports but to be honest it goes back too far with little material for my tastes. >You're right about one thing. I haven't been around as long as >you. But that doesn't mean that I can't see clearly that many >of ufology's problems, which are blamed on others (i.e. the government and the media) are in large part of their own >making. >I understand that this isn't a terribly popular point of view >within ufology. Where I think you miss the point is at the very beginning of any case- and I mean a good case, if there are multiple witnesses, some well informed, to some sighting that cannot be easily explained away by the prosaic then it pisses me off to see some reporter bumbling around on the periphery with his or her little green men and space alien remarks right off the bat. The government doesn't come into it much these days. The forces might, muddying up the waters with insupportable claims of flares and other such nonsense which doesn't fit the report. Or let's drag in the local astronomer who has less knowledge of the what's happening in the first 40 miles of our atmosphere than the local weather reporters. >But ask yourself this question - if you were a reporter, or >film/television producer/director, looking in on ufology, >would you be inclined to take it seriously these days? Are you lumping yourself in with the day to day reporter with an assignment editor? These are two different things. You could spend months and even years documenting a case as a documentary film producer, shoot it, cut it with witnesses both pro and con and then at the end of the piece offer your "informed" opinion, not some of the shoot-from-the-lip diarrhea that comes out of the media. From my perspective of pilot looking into other pilot's cases, yes, I'd take it seriously. I think you can waste too much time looking at the UFO investigator's personalities and not at the cases themselves. In the long run it doesn't really matter what the investigator thinks, it's how solid the reports are and the credibility of the individual[s] who report them. How many scientists have reported UFOs. Many hundreds. But their testimony becomes suddenly suspect where a UFO report is concerned where in a "legitimate field" their observations would be weighed with some dignity then either discounted or supported. Granted there would be arguments and derision were it some non related UFO point in science that challenged the norm but there would be those who would wonder and explore this new theory and perhaps years later would either vindicate or disprove the theory. Not so with UFOs. >The fact that any of us do is a testament to the strength of >the evidence. Strength and volume. >The fact that more of my contemporaries do not is as much >ufology's problem as it is theirs. I find I'm much more comfortable now that I've focused myself on one aspect of the phenomenon with a couple of side interests. The shotgun approach just doesn't work for me.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:56:04 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:11:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:19:30 EDT >Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story - Boone >>From: Henny van der Pluijm <h.vanderpluijm.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:24:34 +0200 >>Subject: Re: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story >>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:46:35 -0400 >>>Subject: Perhaps UFOs Are Really Too Big A Story >>>[The Chairman of the Fund for UFO Research, Don Berliner, is an >>>avid UpDates reader, and uses the Archive to follow posts. But >>>he wanted to have the following posted as a comment and >>>forwarded it to me] >>>----- >>>Those of you accusing the press of anti-UFO bias and thus of >>>involvement in some sort of world-wide conspiracy, might >>>consider this: ><snip> ><snip> >>So what's the point of taking the trouble to investigate UFOs >>seriously? To present a convincing story would require huge >>amounts of investigative and editorial time, produce lots of >>stress and in the end the publisher would only sell a few extra >>copies at a kiosk. Why bother? >>The whole point is this. UFOs don't fit into any serious >>publishing business model. The only places where UFO stories fit >>are the weird magazines that run a UFO story each month and draw >>advertisements for head top pyramids. Fringe business models >>that no sane person would invest much time in. >>Met vriendelijke groet, >>Henny >>071 589 4000 >>http://www.venturemedia.nl >Henny, I'm glad you posted. You sound like a mirror of my >adventures. >You've sure hit the nail on the head. >In addition, journalists are afraid of one thing more than >losing money and that is credibility. >It's absurd for sure if one were to just glance at the stories >that make headlines nowadays. >Gossip, celebrities, gossip, more celebrities, ad nauseum. >Politics, sports, celebrity gossip are what a reporter is after >because it makes their names stand out. Makes a great portfolio >too. >Money and fame and a sparkling name. >Dan Rather just grabbed some headlines for lambasting the new >journalists as being afraid to do real journalism. Like what >took him so long to figure this out? Because he got the boot for >screwing up? No, because he realized he got set up. He's now >seeing what I saw 20 years ago when I split. >Gangsters and government cronies and corporate henchmen run the >news businesses and Rupert Murdoch is the Darth Vader of this >ilk. >UFOs open the door to imagination and that's dangerous. >Ufology leads the mind to pursue the areas of alternate energy, >arrested medical and textile technologies that could make things >cheaper and better and end centuries of misery. >Can't have that! Oh no! Can't have people healthy and wealthy >and wise! >Ufology can and has opened the doors to corruption on a massive >scale and that's a can of worms the powers that be don't want to >tackle. >Ridicule is a powerful weapon. Fear of the group's perceptions >of oneself are what runs the world. Never mind if what you're >investigating could save the lives of millions, if someone is >going to tease one, one will drop it like a hot burrito. >We're social creatures and every once in a while one of us >stands up and bucks the trend and makes headway for us all. >The greatest courage comes from the besting of the group think >of the unconscious mind. The influence of "them" goes beyond UFOs into the world of psychology - though, for the life of me, I don't know why. An acquaintance of mine (a Phd psychologist) was recently quoted in People Magazine in a suicide article. I picked up a copy, read it, found it interesting, but thought his quote seemed a bit weak, abbreviated, and a little "off". I thought he'd probably been caught unprepared, and simply made a few off-hand comments to a reporter, but did the best job he could on short notice. I then tossed the magazine. A few weeks later, I ran into him at a function and mentioned that I read the interesting article on suicide (Golden Gate Bridge jumpers). What he told me about his involvement was startling. He said he was interviewed on the phone for half an hour by a People reporter, who finally told him that she wasn't getting the quote she wanted; he wasn't saying what she wanted him to say. She said she wanted him to say "x", but I don't know what that was. He replied that he was sorry, but he didn't agree with her desired quote, those were his true thoughts, facts, and opinions, and he wasn't going to change his statements. (He's an expert in that subject). When the article appeared, he discovered that she had cobbled together two phrases, made an incomplete sentence, and quoted him as saying something he did not mean. I replied that, in my opinion, doing a cut-and-paste job on quotations is legitimate, but only if you get an approval from the source on the final text, and of course, the quote must still sound like the person, and it must obviously convey their opinions correctly. He said she did none of that - no call backs - and what was printed is not how he feels about the subject. He was intentionally misquoted and mis-represented by that reporter. She lied. I didn't ask him what she wanted him to say, but should have done so in order to better understand what it is "they" want us to think. I haven't trusted the media for 50 years, and have been fully aware of a UFO coverup for decades. I'm also aware of the phony research and lies put out by the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA, carried by CNN et al, with apparently no investigation whatsoever by reporters. But I didn't realize that the poison had invaded the more mundane subject of psychology, and that reporters (from publications other than the tabloids) would intentionally misquote people in serious articles on serious subjects. It's more than bad UFO reporting and UFO non-reporting, gossip, celebrities, money, fame, anti-imagination, greed and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:39:11 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:14:19 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Boone >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:01:56 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:59:19 EDT >>Subject: The Global UFO Cover-Up <snip> >Get real. Get serious instead of frivolous. You were right the >first time. No such secret could be kept, at least not for long. >Nor would any country try to do this. Who's the frivolous one? I would have agreed with you had you not gotten condescending. Shows me the power of a lack of fiber in the diet. Appearances can be deceiving and thinking governments won't go into cahoots with one another is unrealistic. Look at N. Korea. They were building nukes faster than Keebler Cookie Elves making double dutch chocolate chip cookies and only stopped when the U.S. decided to thwart this with a simple solution: Money. Toss enough money and even evil warlords bent on global destruction will pull up their heels. We didn't defeat the N. Korean menace, we bought it off. I'm sure there'll be some happy campers at the cat houses worldwide and gambling dens as the hierarchy of the N. Korean Government make bee-lines to partake of their services. <snip> >You were correct the first time. There is no conspiracy, and far >too many US ufologists assume their intelligence agencies have >this amazing power to cover up the supposed truth forever. As >for the other 5 main industrial nations being able to do >likewise - just plain poppycock! <snip> >CDA Well I'll see your 'poppycock' and raise you a 'bolderdash'! On one end we can complicate things by thinking it's impossible to hush people up. It's easy, it's called threats and money and favors. Sometimes it's as simple as letting a guy know that you know who his mistress is and you'll rat him out and tell his wife or mother-in-law. In the face of today's super weapons, none are more frightening than a wife with divorce papers and a good lawyer. Allegiances are frail unless bolstered with capital. Since most countries would immediately assume any craft was a U.S. or Russian weapon I'm sure they would first call and ask if it was ours or theirs. That's when the machinery goes into effect. Hush money flows, toss in some blondes and a cut of the global dope trade and you've got yourself a secret.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 PRG Press Release - 9/22/05 - Exopolitics Lecture From: Stephen G. Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:56:38 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:49:59 -0400 Subject: PRG Press Release - 9/22/05 - Exopolitics Lecture PRG Paradigm Research Group Press Release - September 22, 2005 International Exopolitics Lecture Tour Washington, DC - On Sunday, September 25 at a symposium to be held at the University of Toronto Convocation Hall, PRG Executive Director Stephen Bassett will begin a national and international lecture tour under the umbrella theme: The Exopolitics of Disclosure: Why the Truth Embargo Regarding an Extraterrestrial Presence Engaging the Human Race Must End Now. The next stop will be the Avalon Theatre in Easton, MD. Bassett will then go to Rende, Italy to speak at the University of Calabria and return to the US to speak in Santa Clara, CA. The lectures will either be produced by PRG or by sponsored invitation. The goal is to stand on the soil of every nation and call for the United States Government to end the embargo preventing people of all nations from knowing the truth about their world. This tour will continue until Disclosure has been achieved. [Disclosure is the formal acknowledgment by governments of an extraterrestrial presence.] Mr. Bassett's presentation will derive from ten years as a Washington based political activist and leading advocate for Disclosure and open Congressional hearings. It will also draw from two important books: UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Cover-up, 1947-1973 by Richard Dolan and Missing Times: News Media Complicity in the UFO Cover-up by Terry Hansen. These books are essential reading for any member of the government or political press who have been mislead by 58 years of government disinformation on this issue. The Toronto Symposium will break new ground. It will mark the first time in history that any defense minister or secretary of defense of any first world nation (and possibly any nation) will state publicly that he or she is convinced the UFO phenomenon is extraterrestrial in origin. Also speaking will be the aforementioned historian, Richard Dolan, who will lead off with a summary of the national security measures taken in the US to address and suppress understanding of extraterrestrial-related phenomena. Canadian researcher, Stanton Friedman, will expand on this based upon his 40 years of research. Former Canadian Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister, Paul Hellyer, will speak. Stephen Bassett, will close with the keynote presentation. While the top echelon media organizations in the United States (ABC, NBC, CBS News, Washington Post, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, etc.) have supported the US Government imposed truth embargo, either freely or under threat, the Canadian press is not so influenced. Consequently, there has been considerable coverage of this event and Hellyer's pending remarks by the major newspapers in Canada. If Canada were to break ranks with the United States on the matter of the extraterrestrial presence, the truth embargo would collapse. All upcoming lectures will be announced at: www.paradigmclock.com/speaking&eventschedule.html Contact PRG: 202-215-8344 or ParadigmRG.nul ________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Harney From: John Harney <magonia.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:46:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:51:56 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Harney >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:14:26 -0300 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:15:18 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>The notion of governments keeping UFOs secret indefinitely is >>>one of the most absurd ideas in ufology. The technical term for >>>educated people, who should know better, propagating this belief >>>is "intellectual dishonesty". >There is nothing at all absurd about governments keeping the >best data (crashes, destruction of aircraft, etc) secret. Just >this past week the NRO, for the first time, admitted it had >launched and operated with several other agencies, a number of >POPPY Satellites between 1962 and 1971 to monitor electronic >information from Soviet ships at sea. Average time in orbit was >34 months. Lots of money and people. Totally secret. Kept secret because they had _control_ of the project. But note that it was eventually made public. How does the US government manage to have the same control over crashing UFOs when such incidents can happen, unpredictably, anywhere in the world, at any time? Why do ETH believers always manage to avoid giving a sensible answer to this obvious question? Is it believed that UFOs are specially designed to crash only where the wreckage can be quickly and stealthily retrieved by the US Air Force? Isn't it more likely that this secret crash- retrieval fantasy is maintained because - when skilfully presented - it delights the audiences at those crazy UFO conferences? >The Eisenhower Library admits it still has 300,000 pages of >classified documents. The NSA has released 156 UFO documents >that are almost entirely whited out except for 1-3 lines per >page. The CIA still won't release what is under the blacked-out >material covering all but 8 words in some of its UFO documents. How do you know that the whited-out material has anything to do with the UFOs rather than details of the performance of military aricraft and radar, and methods for gathering intelligence, which are legitimately being kept secret from potential enemies? >The problem is that the press isn't digging into the >CosmicWatergate. Nobody has followed up on General Bolender's >1969 comment that reports of UFOs which could effect national >security are _not_ part of the Blue Book System. There is no Cosmic Watergate; it's just a silly fantasy. >What is absurd is the notion that governments can't keep >secrets.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:03:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:53:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Groff >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org >>http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html >>Pennsylvania UFO Video >>John Foster's incredible film speaks for itself... >>Undeniably the best UFO footage ever recorded. There is only one >>explanation for what you are witnessing here. >>A craft from another world employing an inter-dimensional >>cloaking technique, moving in and out of Earth's space at will. >>The multiple maneuvers, including the under water, and corkscrew >>techniques rule out all other explanations... ><snip> >That sounds a bit over the top to me. >Anyone care to view the video and comment? >My old machine probably can't handle the required plug-in. I don't know which 'Bluebook' case it was but I remember an old episode of "Project UFO" in which a passenger on a plane saw an object very similar to the one shown in the video. When they took a plane up and flew the same course in the same weather conditions the object again appeared then disappeared the same way. The explanation was a temperature inversion that was merely reflecting part of the planes fuselage at a certain point. Being a case supposedly from Project Bluebook maybe somebody knows about it. I have no comments about the water UFOs. They are interesting
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:59:30 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:54:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Boone >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org >>http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html >>Pennsylvania UFO Video >>John Foster's incredible film speaks for itself... >>Undeniably the best UFO footage ever recorded. There is only one >>explanation for what you are witnessing here. >>A craft from another world employing an inter-dimensional >>cloaking technique, moving in and out of Earth's space at will. >>The multiple maneuvers, including the under water, and corkscrew >>techniques rule out all other explanations... ><snip> >That sounds a bit over the top to me. >Anyone care to view the video and comment? >My old machine probably can't handle the required plug-in. This vid is the best blurry UFO (is it blurfo?) I've seen in some time. Can't wait for the analysis.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Light Circles? From: Roy Hale <vinyl.lover10.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:20:13 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:56:40 -0400 Subject: Light Circles? Hi All, A friend of mine sent me the following link: http://www.cdk.si/grz/sv_krogi_e.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 The 'Dark' Side Of The Moon From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:45:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:04:50 -0400 Subject: The 'Dark' Side Of The Moon Source: The New York Time http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/22/opinion/22park.html?th&emc=th September 22, 2005 The Dark Side of the Moon By Robert L. Park College Park, Md. This week NASA described plans to return astronauts to the Moon in 2018 at a cost of $104 billion. That's nine years after President Bush leaves office. Starting from scratch in 1961, President Kennedy's commitment to put a man on the Moon and return him safely to Earth was realized in just eight years. What is going on? The Apollo 11 moon landing on July 16, 1969, transcended the superpower struggle for world domination that had motivated it. People everywhere were awed by what was above all an inspiring demonstration of human achievement. Could lunar colonies, expeditions to Mars and even the stars be far behind? Just three years later, however, as the war in Southeast Asia drained American resources, the era of human space exploration abruptly ended. In 36 years, no human has ventured beyond the relative safety of low-Earth orbit. Who could have imagined, on that magic night in the summer of 1969, that the moon might be as far into space as humans would ever go? On the 20th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing, President George H. W. Bush spoke from the steps of the National Air and Space Museum in Washington. The president called for a return to the moon and for a human expedition to Mars. "Like Columbus," he said, "we dream of distant shores we've not yet seen." George W. Bush seems driven to complete his father's unfinished business in space, as in Iraq. But much has changed. The cold war, which provided the initial motivation for our space program, is long gone. And technological progress has superseded human space exploration. Remotely controlled instruments have become natural extensions of frail human bodies. Much of what we yearn to discover in space is inaccessible to humans. Astronauts on Mars, locked in their spacesuits, could not venture far from shelter amid the constant bombardment of energetic particles that are unscreened by the thin atmosphere. Beyond Mars, there is no place humans can go in the foreseeable future. The great adventure of the 21st century will be to explore where no human can possibly set foot. The great quest is to find life to which we are not related. Could nature have solved the problem of life in some other way, in some other place? When we find out, we will know much more about ourselves. Two mechanical geologists, Spirit and Opportunity, are doing this even now, by searching for evidence of water on opposite sides of Mars. They don't break for lunch or complain about the cold nights, and they live on sunshine. They've been at it for nearly two years, yet their mission costs less than sending a shuttle to the International Space Station. The brains of Spirit and Opportunity are the brains of geologists back on Earth. Progress in society is measured by the extent to which work that is dangerous or menial is done by machines. The benefits we enjoy from the space program - weather satellites, communications satellites and global positioning - come from robotic spacecraft. Few scientists are calling for a human mission to the Moon or Mars. Human space exploration is essentially over. It is too expensive and provides too little return. But politicians know that the American public identifies progress in space with human astronauts. The Bush administration's solution is to create an impossibly expensive and pointless program for some other administration to cancel, thus bearing the blame for ending human space exploration. The return to the moon is not a noble quest. It is a poison pill.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:38:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:02:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hebert >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org >>http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html >>Pennsylvania UFO Video ><snip> >That sounds a bit over the top to me. >Anyone care to view the video and comment? >My old machine probably can't handle the required plug-in. Hi, Larry: Looks like a reflection off the camera lens or casing on the window of the plane - at least the first clip. If you know what you are looking at, you will notice the slight reflection of the cameraperson on the window and the object being promoted as a UFO appears to be nothing more than some part of the camera reflecting bright sunlight on the window. Easy experiment to replicate, done it myself while playing with my camcorder on some of the many driving trips I take with my daughters. Just point your camcorder towards the rolled up, glass window of the car with the sun bright in the sky and at certain angles you too can video tape all kinds of "UFOs". You'll be surprised how hard it is to NOT video tape your own reflection and that of the camera on the window. I had such fun coming back from Scarborough Faire this year filming everything from the reflections of the car keys to bird poop flying in the sky. It's amazing how anomalous anything can look when taken out of context and the benefit of logic and a keen eye removed. Can't see any "corkscrewing" whatevers and one part appears to be a white bird in flight. Videos of white birds in flight are being promoted as everything from UFO's to crop circle makers all over the world. Anyone who takes the time to film white birds in flight will know how these appear in videos. Don't have a lot of white birds around here except when I don't have my camcorder with me but I've managed to film a few since 1997. Once you observe and video tape white birds in flight, you will know what they look like on tape. The two objects from Eyepod.Org's earlier post "Footage Of Two Objects" also appear to be white birds in flight. The 'objects' fly forward and you can see the wings flapping if you know what to look for. Just got all the experiments I conducted for the "Fleets Of UFO's" over Mexico claims uploaded to my new web site and have one more experiment to upload then I will share some of the footage I have of white birds in flight. Sorry to take so long, had to take time to learn Flash, working with PSD's and several
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:48:10 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:06:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hall >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org >>http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html >>Pennsylvania UFO Video >>John Foster's incredible film speaks for itself... >>Undeniably the best UFO footage ever recorded. There is only one >>explanation for what you are witnessing here. >>A craft from another world employing an inter-dimensional >>cloaking technique, moving in and out of Earth's space at will. >>The multiple maneuvers, including the under water, and corkscrew >>techniques rule out all other explanations... >That sounds a bit over the top to me. >Anyone care to view the video and comment? >My old machine probably can't handle the required plug-in. Larry, When I read that the site contained 'The Best UFO, Alternative Science & Spiritual Awakening Videos on the Web' as well as the over-the-top (surely an alternative to science all right!) interpretations presented as absoluite fact, my gag reflexes
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Catalog Of UFO Photo Cases For Australian Research From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:16:26 +0200 (CEST) Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:10:05 -0400 Subject: Catalog Of UFO Photo Cases For Australian Research Catalog of UFO photographic cases available to Australian researchers FOTOCAT Project: http://fotocat.blogspot.com has just finished a preliminary compilation of Australian UFO and IFO reports where a picture, film or video has been obtained. With the aim to have it reviewed, checked and improved by local UFO researchers and organizations, I am making this catalog (an Excel spreadsheet file) available upon request to whoever believes can make any contribution towards its completeness and data increase. Presently, the catalog stores information on 225 cases from 1935 to 2005. To this end, please send a _private_ request message to me (see email adress below) and I will be furnishing this catalog for your inspection and potential amendment. FOTOCAT Project is a public service from Spain=B4s not-for-profit Anomaly Foundation <http://www.anomalia.org>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Shell From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:51:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:12:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Shell >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org >>http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html >>Pennsylvania UFO Video >>John Foster's incredible film speaks for itself... >>Undeniably the best UFO footage ever recorded. There is only one >>explanation for what you are witnessing here. >>A craft from another world employing an inter-dimensional >>cloaking technique, moving in and out of Earth's space at will. >>The multiple maneuvers, including the under water, and corkscrew >>techniques rule out all other explanations... ><snip> >That sounds a bit over the top to me. >Anyone care to view the video and comment? >My old machine probably can't handle the required plug-in. I watched it, after turning off the annoying and idiotic music they added. The first sequence looks like a water droplet on the outside of the plane window to me. It vanished because the airstream zaps it. The rest of the video doesn't look like anything at all to me.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 UFO Tales Prove Compelling Draw From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:24:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:24:06 -0400 Subject: UFO Tales Prove Compelling Draw Source: The Exeter News-Letter - Maine http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/exeter/09232005/news/64444.htm Fri. September 23, 2005 UFO Tales Prove Compelling Draw By Liz Chretien rockinghamnews.nul FREMONT - Television "X-File" agents Mulder and Scully would have been proud. About 80 people packed into Fremont Public Library on Tuesday for a talk by Rye resident Peter Geremia, director of the New Hampshire chapter of the Mutual UFO Network, on Seacoast UFO sightings. The talk was sponsored by the Fremont Historical Society. Geremia, who has spent 28 years in that capacity, has been investigating UFO sightings since 1977, including the famous sighting on the Kensington/Exeter line in 1965 which was later turned into a book, "Incident at Exeter," by John Fuller. With a recent sighting in the Exeter area, the topic is commanding much interest. In July, a Navy veteran reported seeing a cigar-shaped object in the sky with windows and lights on a sunny afternoon. This sighting has not been researched by MUFON. Geremia�s talk, illustrated with a slide show, took the audience through three area sightings, beginning with the "Foul Weather UFO" seen on April 11, 1978, in Epping. Using real pictures of the area with simulated lights added based on witness accounts, Geremia took listeners through each step of the events. "This was a memorable case because there are very few sightings that take place in bad weather," Geremia said. The case was titled a CE I, or close encounter of the first kind, because "there was no environmental interaction." In this case, a young couple driving north on Route 125 saw three red lights in a triangular shape hovering over their car. The husband, a UNH student, saw a blue glow emanating from the craft. His wife reported the incident despite her husband�s fear of ridicule in his education circle. "There was, and still is, much stigma surrounding the reporting of a UFO," Geremia said. "Policemen especially, who have a political job as well as a physical one, have a hard time with UFO reports because it�s a no-win situation for them." Which is where the incident at Exeter differs. According to Geremia, what happened on Sept. 3, 1965, was even more credible because two police officers witnessed it as well. The story began around 12:30 a.m. in Kingston, where a woman reported being chased along Route 101 by a UFO. Around 1 a.m., a man reported a sighting on Route 150. Sometime close to 2 a.m., a teenager walking down Route 85 toward Exeter had an encounter with a UFO diving at him as he hitchhiked home from his girlfriend�s house. The teenager, Norman Muscarello, went straight to the Exeter police station to report the incident to "Scratch" Toland, the dispatcher on duty. Toland took the story seriously and dispatched Officer Eugene Bertrand. Bertrand had also spoken with the woman who reported the incident on Route 101 less than two hours previously. When Bertrand and Muscarello returned to the scene, they both witnessed five flashing red balls of lights going on and off in a sequential pattern, with "no distinct shape behind them," according to Geremia. "According to the reports, they floated like a leaf. What kind of technology do we have now, never mind back in 1965, that could do that?" The lights hovered over a farmhouse, causing horses to "go crazy" and bathing the house in red light before moving off toward Hampton. A second officer, David Hunt, arrived in time to see the object before it left the area. At 3:30 that same morning, a call came in from a phone booth near the Hampton tolls. The hysterical caller reported a UFO chasing him before the line went dead. One of the characteristics of these sightings is that they are often seen around power lines, swamps or sand pits, according to Geremia. The incident on Route 87 happened near a power line. The police could not identify the object, and the Pentagon denied the report. But a case report written by Raymond Fowler, an acclaimed UFO investigator and author of 11 books on UFO sightings and abductions, was read into the Congressional Record in 1966 in the first open congressional hearing on UFOs. "There was a lot of speculation that it had to do with the power plant being built in Seabrook, or that it happened because it was a time of armed conflict," Geremia said. "I don�t believe that. I believe that whoever they are, they are here for exploration purposes." About 10 audience participants reported seeing a UFO at some point in their lives. One skeptic in the audience inquired as to whether the sighting in Exeter could have been a balloon, but Geremia said it wasn�t likely. He ended his presentation with a recap of the most recent area case investigated by MUFON, one that occurred right on Route 107 in Fremont, not far from the public library. The incident, labeled a close encounter II because of the interaction with the environment, occurred on Jan. 16, 2002, at 10 p.m. and lasted 10 minutes, something Geremia called "extremely rare. Usually 20-30 seconds, or up to a minute, is the norm." The sighting occurred on a large sand pit and was witnessed by a family of four and their farm animals. A woman outside with her dogs across the street saw a white ball of lights with strobes and white, green, red and blue lights emanating from it, and an oval craft with a circle of red lights around the edges hovering slightly behind. The geese screamed and the dogs cowered, and in her husband�s car a radar detector began making "extremely odd noises," Geremia said. The interaction with the radar detector caused the incident to be labeled a CE II. When the woman�s husband began walking toward the strobe, it moved toward him. When he stopped moving, the object retreated. The oval craft had already taken off in the direction of Exeter. "The strobe object was reported to be about 30-50 feet in diameter," Geremia said. Police were summoned but did not make it in time to see the craft. Geremia said that the 911 call was erased and the incident did not make the police logs. "Since I began my research in 1977 I have never heard a 911 call on tape or found a notation in a police log," he said. "These things don�t get recorded." Geremia said he hopes to investigate recent cases reported in the area. "The big question is, why are they here? People say they know,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Alien Abduction Claims Explained From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:34:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:34:29 -0400 Subject: Alien Abduction Claims Explained Source: The Harvard Gazette - Cambridge, Massachusetts http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/09.22/11-alien.html 23 September 2005 Alien Abduction Claims Explained Sleep paralysis, false memories involved By William J. Cromie Harvard News Office Many of the people who believe they have been abducted by aliens are bombarding Susan Clancy with hate e-mails and phone calls. The Harvard researcher, who has spent five years listening to the stories of some 50 abductees, has described her (and their) experiences in a new book to be published in October. Clancy, 36, likes most of these people. "They are definitely not crazy," she says. But they do have "a tendency to fantasize and to hold unusual beliefs and ideas. They believe not only in alien abductions, but also in things like UFOs, ESP, astrology, tarot, channeling, auras, and crystal therapy. They also have in common a rash of disturbing experiences for which they are seeking an explanation. For them, alien abduction is the best fit." As you might guess, the people behind all that hate mail and the phone calls don't buy that. They were there, she wasn't, they insist. In her book, "Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens," to be published by the Harvard University Press, Clancy describes a typical reaction. "Can you believe the nerve of that girl (Clancy)," one abductee says. "She comes to me, like, 'Oh, I believe you've been abducted! Let me interview you to learn more.... Oh, what really happened [she says] is sleep paralysis.' Riiight! How the - - does she know? Did it happen to her? There was something in the room that night! I was spinning. I blacked out ... it was terrifying.... I wasn't sleeping. I was taken. I was violated, ripped apart - literally, figuratively, metaphorically, whatever you want to call it. Does she know what that's like?" Paralyzing dreams Abduction stories are strikingly similar. Victims wake up and find themselves paralyzed, unable to move or cry out for help. They see flashing lights and hear buzzing sounds. Electric sensations zing through their bodies, which may rise up in levitation. Aliens with wrap-around eyes, gray or green skin, lacking hair or noses, approach. The abductee's heart pounds violently. There's lots of probing in the alien ship. Instruments are inserted in their noses, navels, or other orifices. It's painful. Sometimes sexual intercourse occurs. Then it's over, after seconds or minutes. The intruders vanish. Victims are back in their own beds and can move again. Clancy, Richard McNally, a professor of psychology at Harvard, and other researchers tie such horrifying happenings to sleep paralysis, a condition where the usual separation between sleep and wakefulness gets out of synchronization. When you dream, you are paralyzed. It's a natural adaptation to prevent people from lashing out, jumping out of bed, walking into doors or windows, and otherwise injuring themselves. But it's possible to wake up while still paralyzed. "We can find ourselves hallucinating sights, sounds, and bodily sensations," Clancy says. "They seem real but they're actually the product of our imagination." One researcher describes it as "dreaming with your eyes wide open." Bizarre effects aside, sleep paralysis is as normal as hiccups. It's not a sign of mental illness. About 25 percent of people around the world have experienced it, and about 5 percent get the whole show of sight, sound, tactile hallucinations, and abduction. Some of these people become completely absorbed by what happened and seek an explanation of it. That can lead them into a grab bag of different techniques well known to those with a rich fantasy life and a distaste for scientific explanations. Such techniques include hypnosis, guided imagery, regression, and relaxation therapies. "These all work in roughly the same way," Clancy comments. "The therapist lulls the abductee into a suggestive state, in which normal reality constraints are relaxed, and then asks the person to vividly image things that might have happened." Or might not have happened. Hypnosis, she says, "is a bad way to refresh your memories. Not only that, it renders you susceptible to creating memories of things that never happened, things that were suggested to you or that you just imagined. If you (or your therapist) have pre- existing beliefs or expectations, you're liable to recall experiences that fit with these beliefs, rather than events that actually happened." False memories Clancy knows all about false memories; they got her into studying abductees in the first place. When she arrived at Harvard to work on a Ph.D. in 1996, she was fascinated by the political, legal, and social impacts of people who suddenly recovered memories of childhood sexual abuse. Using standard laboratory tests, she found that women who reported recovering such memories were more likely to remember things that never happened than women who always remembered such abuse. That result, however, does not prove whether or not the woman with recovered memories had actually been sexually abused. Clancy then got the idea that she could get a better scientific grip on false memories by studying people who recovered memories of events that could not, in her mind, have possibly happened, i.e., being abducted by aliens. "Boy, was I na=EFve," she says in retrospect. "You can't disprove alien abductions. All you can do is show that evidence is insufficient to justify the belief, and try to understand why people have those beliefs." On the way to doing this, she, McNally, and their colleagues made some tantalizing discoveries. Measurements of sweating, heart rate, and brain waves showed that those claiming to be abductees show the same symptoms of post-traumatic stress syndrome as combat veterans. The researchers did not, however, conclude that the abductees had experienced combat-type trauma. Rather, they believe, it is the emotional significance of a memory, whether it is true or not, that causes sweaty hands and rapid heartbeats. Earlier this year, Clancy and McNally reported on another study that found those who recalled childhood sexual abuse or abduction by aliens experience higher rates of sleep paralysis than those who do not make such claims. Strikingly, the first group also scored high on underlying traits of fantasy proneness, paranormal interests and experiences, and inability to relate socially to others. Add to this mixture a recurring interest in aliens expressed in books, in movies, and on television, as well as true discoveries of more than 150 planets orbiting other stars in our galaxy. Overwhelmed by this hurricane of sleep paralysis, false memories, and fantasy, some people seek explanations and succor in ghosts, reincarnations, and multiple personalities. Others find that alien abductions provide answers and peace of mind, says Clancy. "It probably doesn't matter much to the abductees whether they are right or wrong," she comments. "They simply feel better because of what they believe." Clancy is finished with space abduction studies. She now works in Central America, teaching, continuing research on trauma and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Alien Abduction Claims Examined From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:37:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:37:34 -0400 Subject: Alien Abduction Claims Examined Source: The Harvard Gazette - Cambridge, Massachusetts http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/02.20/01-alien.html February 20, 2003 Harvard Gazette Archives Alien Abduction Claims Examined: Signs Of Trauma Found By William J. Cromie Gazette Staff Mark H. says he was abducted by aliens. He clearly remembers awakening one night, unable to move anything but his eyes. He saw flashing lights, heard buzzing sounds, experienced feelings of levitation, and felt electric tingling sensations. Most terrifying were the nonhuman figures he saw by his bed. Mark believes they were aliens. Later, he underwent hypnosis to try to recall exactly what had happened to him. Under hypnosis, Mark remembered being whisked through an open window to a large spaceship. He was very frightened when aliens took him into some kind of medical examining room. There he had sex with one of them. Afterward, the aliens brought him back to Earth and returned him to his bed. Mark describes the experience as terrifying. But did it really happen? Some researchers at Harvard University devised an experiment to determine if memories of an abduction by space aliens would provoke the same physiological reactions that occur when other people, such as combat veterans and those who survive deadly car accidents, recall their traumatic experiences. Richard McNally, a professor of psychology, and his colleagues recruited six women and four men who claimed they had been spirited away by extraterrestrials, some of them more than once. Under hypnosis, seven of the 10 reported having had their sperm or eggs extracted for breeding purposes, or experiencing direct sexual contact with the space aliens. Each of these people was interviewed by either McNally or Susan Clancy, also a professor of psychology. Each also wrote a script that told the story of his or her abduction. The research team then made audiotapes, spoken in a neutral voice, from the scripts. The abductees listened to these tapes in the laboratory of Scott Orr at the Veteran's Affairs Medical Center in Manchester, N.H. As the tapes played, the researchers recorded their emotional responses using such measures as heart rate and sweat on the palms of their hands. The same procedure was done with eight people haunted by traumatic experiences unrelated to abduction by aliens. When the two sets of measurements were compared, the results were striking. Abductees showed surprisingly strong physiological reactions to the tapes of their alien encounters. Their reactions were as great or greater than those of individuals who cannot shake memories of combat, sexual abuse, and other punishing events. McNally announced these findings on Feb. 16 at a meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Denver. "The results underscore the power of emotional belief," he noted. "People who sincerely believe they have been abducted by aliens show patterns of emotional and physiological response to these 'memories' that are strikingly similar to those of people who have been genuinely traumatized by combat or similar events." Dreaming with their eyes wide open Neither McNally nor the other Harvard researchers ever considered the possibility that people in the study, or anybody else, was ever abducted by space aliens. But, if not, what produced their lasting vivid memories? The researchers tie such abduction stories to a phenomenon they call "dreaming with your eyes wide open." The episodes occur just as people awaken from a dream. Dreams include full-body paralysis, a nice adaptation that prevents people from jumping out of bed to escape their demons, or otherwise making moves in a dream that could injure them in reality. The sleeper awakens from a dream before the paralysis goes away, and experiences hallucinations like seeing flashing lights and some kinds of living things lurking around the bed. Sleep paralysis is common and no more indicative of mental illness than a hiccup, the researchers point out. But when the hallucination and paralysis occur together, many people find the combination frightening, and they attempt to find a meaning in it. Some individuals consult psychiatrists or psychologists who hypnotize them to recover presumably repressed memories that lie behind the strange events. During such sessions, a person may recover false memories of being transported up into spacecraft where they were subjected to medical and sexual experiments. Psychological interviews and tests conducted on the abductees reveal little evidence of mental illness, but they enjoy a rich fantasy life. When they listen to music or watch movies they often imagine they are somewhere else or part of the movie plot. The typical abductee, notes McNally, "has a longstanding interest in 'New Age' practices and beliefs such as reincarnation, astral projection, mental telepathy, alternative healing practices, energy therapies, and astrology." He and his colleagues conclude, "a combination of pre-existing New Age beliefs, episodes of sleep paralysis, accompanied by hallucinations and hypnotic memory recovery may foster beliefs and memories that one has been abducted by space aliens." Ghost, hags, and incubi Such combinations give rise to a variety of interpretations across cultures and throughout history, McNally points out. Not everyone who has been scared by this experience imagines they have been abducted by aliens. A hallucination upon awakening from a dream might be interpreted as a visit from a ghost or Satan. In Newfoundland, people have encounters with the "Old Hag," a witch who gets on your bed with you. Hundreds of years ago in Europe, people feared the incubus, an evil spirit that lies on people while they sleep, or the succubus, a demon who assumes a female form and has sex with men in their sleep. Abductees react emotionally like people who have real memories of combat, abuse, and near-death encounters, but most of them are glad they had contact with extraterrestrials. Some say they feel pleased to have been chosen to take part in hybrid breeding
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 The Search for E.T. From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:43:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:43:38 -0400 Subject: The Search for E.T. Source: The Wave Magazine - San Jose, California http://www.thewavemag.com/pagegen.php?pagename=3Darticle&articleid=3D25488 September 21 2005 The Search for E.T. The Bay Area is a hotbed in the search for intelligent life. But is anybody out there? By Scott DeVaney In the next few weeks, space aliens will begin soaring through the earth's atmosphere. They will fly over every city in America most nights of the week, although they'll be invisible until the moment they enter your homes. The creatures' mode of transportation won't be flying saucers, however, but television airwaves. No less than six new TV shows based on extraterrestrial visitors premiere this fall. Of course, aliens are nothing new in Hollywood, but six new shows in one season is more than just a fad =96 it's a phenomenon. So what's driving our growing fascination with celestial neighbors who may or may not want to destroy, enlighten, or simply probe us? "We're lonely", says Andrew Fraknoi, head of the astronomy department at Foothill College and board member of the Mountain View-based SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) Institute. "I think SETI is an expression of our cosmic loneliness. Although we have plenty of our own cousins right here on earth =96 perhaps way too many =96 we are the only intelligent species on earth. We look out into the universe and say, =91Could we have companionship?'" Loneliness, however, means different things to different people. Is it possible that our obsession with finding E.T. is nothing more than a symptom of spiritual crisis in America? Have aliens become modernized, inflected archetypes of religious mythology, on which all of mankind's hopes and fears may be unduly pinned? "The hope of some UFO believers can be very similar to those who in ancient days believed in guardian angels that were looking out for us, or people who believed in fairies and pixies that were on the fringes of the visible world, waiting to help us when we get into trouble," states Fraknoi. "This is a very natural human desire, right? It's just like when you're a kid, if you screw up, you kind of hope your parents will step in to save you. So, as a species, we worry that if we really screw up, is there somebody else who can come along and straighten things out?" STATE-OF-THE-ART TECHNOLOGY Despite public perception, the 20- year-old SETI program is much more than just a big eye in the sky, aimlessly looking for long-lost radio signals from alien civilizations. SETI is an international collection of more than 100 distinguished scientists working on a plethora of projects associated with exploring and fostering life in the cosmos. No single topic gets SETI folks more excited than their new pet project, the Allen Telescope Array (ATA). Named after its primary benefactor, Paul "Microsoft" Allen, the ATA is a network of 350 small radio dishes in Northern California that will cast a wide gaze into the sky to offer an unprecedented view of the heavens. Once completed, the ATA will help us map our Milky Way galaxy with extraordinary precision and enable a better understanding of interstellar science. But the grand hope, of course, is that it will capture a distant radio signal from a technologically advanced alien civilization. "Once the ATA gets built, it turns out that depending on how many civilizations you think are in our galaxy that have [radio] transmitters turned on, then we should find a signal within 20 years," says Dr. Seth Shostak, senior astronomer at SETI. "Maybe it won't happen that way, but that's the estimate that people in the SETI community say are the right numbers. So, this is a project that is not for the generations. It will succeed in one generation. I think this is an important point for Joe Six-Pack, because it's not something that's hypothetical." Naturally, you're wondering how a scientist could make such a precise prediction. Contact within 20 years? Shostak's estimate is based on a formula called "The Drake Equation," which was crafted by Frank Drake, emeritus professor of astronomy and astrophysics at UC-Santa Cruz and current director of SETI's Center for the Study of Life in the Universe. In simplest terms, The Drake Equation looks at the 200 billion stars in the universe, then attempts to estimate how many intelligent civilizations exist through a process of eliminating stars with no planets, then stars with planets but no planets like ours, etc. By the time Drake's Equation gets down to estimating the number of planets with life but not intelligent life, then narrowing those down to planets with intelligent life that are willing or able to communicate, the number of intelligent civilizations is theorized to be roughly 10,000. That's significantly less than the millions of alien societies Carl Sagan envisioned, or even the hundreds of thousands of intergalactic cultures pictured by Isaac Asimov, but still a significant population. And Shostak is convinced one of these 10,000 civilizations can be discovered by ATA within two decades. Beyond SETI's pursuit of galactic voyeurism, they're also blazing the trail in a relatively young scientific field called astrobiology =96 the study of not only how life came to exist in the universe, but how humans may one day adapt to live on other planets. Emma Bakes and Steve Walch are Silicon Valley-based SETI astrobiologists whose work is enhancing our basic understanding about the origins of life. Bakes and Walch used quantum mechanical techniques to prove that amino acids can form on the surface of icy, interstellar dust. This finding shows that one of the primary building blocks of life may be formed between stars, and not just on earth. Bakes and Walch are currently researching the possibility that interstellar debris, which rained down on the earth billions of years ago, may have been the catalyst that created DNA. Astrobiologists have also proven that iron molecules in the hemoglobin were originally cooked up in stars billions of years ago and sent scattering about the universe after supernovae explosions. "This is why we say that we are literally made out of stardust," explains Dr. Jill Tarter, research director at SETI and the woman whose personality and passion for SETI were used to shape Jodie Foster's character in the movie Contact. "Life [on earth] is deeply tied to the cosmos and the folks at [the SETI] Institute study that connection and try to understand it." THE ART OF STATE TECHNOLOGY Outside of SETI's distinctly rational approach to the search for alien intelligence, there exist other sects of searchers =96 or rather, alien believers =96 who claim we've already made contact. And not all E.T.-believers fit the standard profile of a foaming-at-the-mouth crazy picketing for the apocalypse; there are adamant alien believers who possess the most impressive of credentials. One such person is Alfred Webre, a former senior policy analyst for the Stanford Research Institute and a Fulbright Scholar who received a law degree from Yale prior to becoming an economics professor there. Webre is currently the director for the Institute for Cooperation in Space (www.peaceinspace.com), a group of impassioned outer space peace activists who believe we've already made contact with numerous alien civilizations. While at Stanford in the '70s, Webre was associated with a Defense Department-funded project on "remote viewing" =96 that is, using psychics as Cold War spies. According to Webre, remote viewing proved to be not only scientifically verifiable, but an effective espionage tool (details of these experiments are documented in many books, such as Remote Viewing: The Science and Theory of Nonphysical Perception by Courtney Brown and Limitless Mind by Russell Targ). Before long, remote viewing researchers began wondering if they could use the same techniques to observe distant reaches of the universe and possibly make contact with alien civilizations. "The big breakthrough happened in the '90s," says Webre. "We were able to achieve communication and observation of intelligent civilizations." Webre further claims that not only have mediums made contact with multiple alien civilizations, but that the U.S. and German governments had contact with them during World War II, when one particularly nasty alien culture "entered into private, confidential treaties with first the Nazi government and then the U.S. [to provide advanced warfare technologies]. Those were deals negotiated by the Henry Kissinger wing, back in the Eisenhower era with Nelson Rockefeller as a kind of behind-the- scenes figure." Webre assures us that those Nazi-sympathizing alien days are over and that most alien cultures currently live in an advanced state of intergalactic accord and desire to usher humans into their utopian fold, but are weary of our self-destructive ways. Via remote viewing, Webre says alien governments have expressed concern that we humans are on the verge of "species suicide," either through nuclear war or ecological catastrophe. "So [aliens] are working assiduously to try and help the forces of transformation on our planet, so that we transform from a primitive warfare economy to a more sustainable, cooperative peaceful economy." THE SEARCH CONTINUES Then, of course, there are the unabashed non-believers, those who regard the search for alien life =96 whether it be the sober variety at SETI or the psychic slant at Stanford =96 as nothing more than a colossal squandering of resources. "To those who might think of [the search for space aliens] as a total waste of time and energy, well, by that thinking we shouldn't have any music," says SETI's Dr. Fraknoi. "Why spend any money on any kind of music? What good is jazz, or the symphony or a terrific new song you hear on the radio? What a waste of effort. It's not helping the tremendous needs we have on this planet. We don't need another song from Bruce Springsteen. Everybody should be out feeding the poor=85 and that's all true, but what would life be without music? You need
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 'The Colonel' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:48:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:48:37 -0400 Subject: 'The Colonel' Source: The Wave Magazine - San Jose, California http://tinyurl.com/9dnub Septe,ber 21 2005 Letters To The Wave Editor's Note: I was at a wedding many years ago when I met "The Colonel". He was an uncle on the bride's side; I was looting the open bar on behalf of the groom's side. My name card on table 11 was directly to The Colonel's right. His actually said "The Colonel". I still have it. The Colonel, as it turns out, was an active U.S. Army officer in July of 1947, at the same time that the Roswell Army Air Field (AAF) openly told the press they'd recovered a "flying saucer." I figured he was about 80-something and he'd had a mild stroke, but he spoke quite clearly and with authority and what he told me that day changed my life. Basically, he said that all those stories about the UFO crash just outside of Roswell, New Mexico were absolutely true. It was all true. Apparently I wasn't the first person he'd told this to, because either everyone else at the table had heard the story or they didn't care (or they thought he was a nut). He told me he was debriefed on July 11, 1947 and sounded like a quack, especially when he got to the part about being sworn to secrecy and whatnot. But then, as if asking to pass the butter, he began to justify his perceived madness. He asked me if I could name any major technological breakthroughs shortly after 1947. "The bikini" was all I could come up with (and yes, I know, it was invented a year earlier). He then began rattling off the answers to his own question: the transistor, the integrated circuit, fiber optics, the friggin' laser. He said the only thing we haven't been able to reverse- engineer from the wrecked spacecraft was its propulsion system. For every "Colonel" there are at least 100 skeptics quick to offer logical and quite plausible explanations for the events of that summer in 1947. There's actually a great Discovery Channel documentary on Roswell that presents both sides very well. What sucks is that merely mentioning aliens without instantly and categorically dismissing them more or less qualifies you as a kook. The safe answer people tend to offer is the agnostic equivalent: "I know that there must be something and I'm not saying there's not but I'm not saying there is." But there are believers among us whose credentials should impress you. On page 76, Scott DeVaney probes this topic by going right to the source: The SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence) Institute, a world-famous, Mountain View-based organization devoted to contacting little green men. The institute recently received a financial shot in the arm compliments of Paul Allen, whom you might remember from Microsoft. I called Scott at 7am the day after he submitted his piece and asked him if we're alone in the universe. "John," he said solemnly, "If I was sitting next to you right now I'd peel off my human suit and begin to lay waste to human civilization, starting with you. I was asleep, you douchebag." But grumpiness aside, he told me that after his lengthy research he felt strongly that "when we begin to grasp the enormity of the universe, to believe that we are the only intelligent species is on par with those who believed the earth was flat so many years ago." Not bad for 7am, kook. Coincidentally, Scott spoke with Dr. Jill Tarter, Research Director at SETI and the person Jodie Foster's character was based on in Contact. Read a completely unrelated interview with Foster on page 72. And read an even more unrelated interview with Johnny Depp on page 70, who was also in a movie about alien life, although in that one he was possessed by them and tried to kill his wife. As for me, sure, I think intelligent life exists beyond us. Why not? I just hope they share with us their awesome flying mobile home technology and don't come to earth to use us as food. John Newlin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Starship Memories From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:04:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:04:41 -0400 Subject: Starship Memories Source: The Harvard Gazette - Cambridge, Massachusetts http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/10.31/09-clancy.html October 31, 2002 Harvard Gazette Archives Starship memories: "Alien abductees" provide clues to repressed, recovered memories By Beth Potier Gazette Staff Susan Clancy's research has taken her into alien territory. For the past three years, Clancy, a postdoctoral fellow in Harvard's Psychology Department, has studied people who believe they were abducted by aliens from outer space. Her research, done in conjunction with Professors of Psychology Richard McNally and Daniel Schacter, former associate professor Mark Lenzenweger and Harvard Medical School professor Roger Pitman, was recently published in the Journal of Abnormal Psychology. Yet Clancy's interest is not in extraterrestrial beings at all. "As far as science knows, nobody is being abducted by aliens," she stressed. Rather, Clancy wanted to explore conditions under which people develop false memories of traumatic events. "One of the most bitter and volatile debates ever to occur in psychology concerns the reality of repressed and recovered memories of traumatic events," she said. =46rom the very serious and plausible claims of childhood sexual abuse to the less credible ones of alien abductions, psychologists are at odds over the idea that people can forget traumatic events then "recover" intact memories of the trauma years later. On the one side are clinicians, who observe that painful memories can be repressed, banished from a trauma survivor's consciousness until they're "recovered" with the help of certain psychotherapeutic techniques in adulthood. Memory researchers, on the other hand, say that people don't repress traumatic events; in fact they remember them all too clearly - sometimes they can't stop thinking about the trauma. When people report recovered memories of traumatic events, assert these cognitive psychologists, they are most likely creating false memories. Intrigued by this debate, and its enormous political, legal, and social implications, Clancy noticed something missing in previous studies when she came to pursue the Ph.D. at Harvard in 1996. "I found it striking that despite how volatile this debate was, nobody had done any research on the population that was at the center of the controversy: those who were reporting recovered memories," she said. Using standard laboratory tests of memory, Clancy initially studied women who reported recovering memories of childhood sexual abuse, finding that they were more likely, in laboratory tests, to create false memories than women who had always remembered childhood sexual abuse. While her findings were interesting, they were limited: It was very difficult to corroborate whether or not the women with recovered memories of childhood sexual abuse actually had been sexually abused as children. 'I was so na=EFve' That gap in Clancy's research on survivors of childhood sexual abuse led her into the world of people who believe they were abducted by aliens. Comfortable in her assumption that their experiences were false, she could test whether people who create false memories in the "real world" are also likely to create false memories in the lab. But finding subjects and recruiting them for her study was more challenging - and sometimes humorous - than she could have imagined. "Three years ago, I was so na=EFve. I just thought I'd put ads in newspapers asking 'have you been abducted by aliens?'" she said. She received hundreds of calls in response to her ads, but few of them qualified as research subjects. Out of every 10 calls, she said, only two were from people who believed they had been abducted by space aliens. The other eight were from media seeking a good story, from citizens concerned that Harvard was wasting money on bogus research, from people playing jokes on friends, and even from aliens - or people portraying aliens - themselves. A few calls, she said, were from native Spanish speakers who misunderstood the ad to be looking for illegal aliens who had been abducted at the border by immigration officials. Convincing the "legitimate" alien abductees to participate in the study was an enormous challenge, said Clancy. "They're very skeptical about what science is going to say about their beliefs," she said. In the end, Clancy rounded up enough subjects for two groups of people who believed they were abducted by aliens: one group of abductees who reported recovering memories of their experience, and one group who had no actual memory of the abduction. This second group attributed a variety of signs and symptoms - unexplained scars or birthmarks, waking up in strange positions, depression, sleep disturbance, or panic at seeing a picture of an alien - to what they believed was their own alien abduction. Clancy also studied a group of people who said they were never abducted by aliens as a control. Testing false memories In the lab, Clancy used a number of standard laboratory paradigms to test memory and recall. One test, called the Deese/Roediger-McDermott paradigm, has subjects memorize then recall a list of semantically related words: brownie, cookie, sugar and candy, for instance. Clancy's group of alien abductees who recovered memories of their abductions recalled the list of words successfully. There were no global memory deficits. In fact, said Clancy, the people who recovered memories of alien abductions were seldom psychologically impaired. "They're normal, very nice people with no overt psychopathology," she said. Yet the recovered-memory abductees as a group were much more likely to falsely remember the word sweet - not on the list, but suggested by it - than either of the other two groups. In this laboratory test, the recovered-memory group was more prone than the other two groups to create false memories. And assuming, as Clancy and her colleagues did, that none of the subjects were actually abducted by space aliens, she drew the conclusion that people who develop false memories in the lab are also more likely to develop false memories of experiences that were suggested or imagined. Additional research helped explain the recovered-memory group's propensity toward false memories of alien abductions. Everyone in this group developed his or her belief of alien abduction after describing an episode that is consistent with sleep paralysis, a harmless but nonetheless frightening desychronization of sleep cycles. "You wake up from REM [rapid eye movement] sleep but you still feel the paralysis that normally accompanies REM sleep," said Clancy. Occurring across cultures in approximately 15 percent of the population, sleep paralysis is sometimes accompanied by hallucinations: a sensation of electrical tingling or levitation, hearing buzzing noises, seeing flashing lights or shadowy figures hovering near the bed. That her subjects attributed this sleep paralysis to alien abduction is not surprising, said Clancy. "There's this widely shared cultural script that helps explain these frightening sleep paralysis experiences," she said. From "The X-Files" to movies, books, and media, this group prone to creating false memories can choose from a wide array of sources for suggestion. "I think these recovered memories are actually distorted memories of things they had read about or seen," she said. It's not about the aliens Clancy was pleased that the Journal of Abnormal Psychology, notoriously selective about papers it publishes, accepted this paper for its August 2002 issue with no reservations. Collaborator Richard McNally, who was Clancy's doctoral thesis adviser, attributed the paper's acceptance to its use of well- established experimental paradigms that produced clear-cut results in an unusual population. "It helps us to understand that there might be a link: People who show this elevated false recognition effect in the laboratory may be more likely to exhibit false memories in the real world," added collaborator Daniel Schacter. Clancy is leaving behind the spaceships and aliens to turn her attention back to survivors of childhood sexual abuse, where she hopes her work could have a real impact. "Childhood sexual abuse occurs, and it's terrible," she said. "If we can understand more about how people remember and forget traumatic events and how people can develop false memories of traumatic events, we can help resolve the controversy over the reality of repressed and recovered memories."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Light Circles? - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:01:24 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:02:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - Tonnies >From: Roy Hale <vinyl.lover10.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:20:13 +0100 >Subject: Light Circles? >A friend of mine sent me the following link: >http://www.cdk.si/grz/sv_krogi_e.htm >Has anyone else come across this kind of light >phenomena? I saw it firsthand and was able to determine the light was issuing from the windows of an adjacent building. I'm open to a "paranormal" explanation, but my gut feeling is that this is an optical effect, albeit a striking one. Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Starship Memories - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:33:58 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:05:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Starship Memories - Balaskas >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:04:41 -0400 >Subject: UFO UpDate: Starship Memories >Source: The Harvard Gazette - Cambridge, Massachusetts >http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/10.31/09-clancy.html <snip> >"As far as science knows, nobody is being abducted by aliens," >she stressed. >Rather, Clancy wanted to explore conditions under which people >develop false memories of traumatic events. >"One of the most bitter and volatile debates ever to occur in >psychology concerns the reality of repressed and recovered >memories of traumatic events," she said. Here we go again... For some reason it is very difficult for scientists to conduct a scientific study without any pre-assumptions about what they plan to investigate. This study by Harvard's Susan Clancy is no different. I would suggest that Clancy consult her Theology colleagues at Harvard University or at any of the many top theological schools in the Boston area for advice and possibly even subjects whoses alleged experiences differ very little from those who claim to be abducted by ETs. By doing so I believe we will not only better understand the true nature of the alien abduction phenomenon but scientists like Clancy will have finally discovered proof of an "alien" presence on Earth - something
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:53:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:28:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reason >Alien Abduction Claims Explained >Sleep paralysis, false memories involved >By William J. Cromie >Harvard News Office >that found those who recalled childhood sexual abuse or >abduction by aliens experience higher rates of sleep paralysis >than those who do not make such claims. Strikingly, the first >group also scored high on underlying traits of fantasy >proneness, paranormal interests and experiences, and inability >to relate socially to others. Now that's very interesting. What this press release doesn't mention is that McNally and Clancy actually had three separate groups in this study - a group of people with recovered memories of sexual abuse, a group with continuous memories of sexual abuse and, of course, a control group. As expected, the researchers' diagnostic instrument indicated a higher rate of sleep paralysis among the recovered memory group compared to the control group. However the instrument indicated that the rate of sleep paralysis was also higher among the continuous memory group, and by almost the same amount - which of course is exactly contrary to their experimental hypothesis. I wonder - is the press officer responsible for this confusion, or are McNally and Clancy engaging in the time-honored practice of trying to spin a negative result into a positive one? I'm also amused to see that Clancy now claims to have been "bombarded with hate e-mails". It looks like she's learnt to play the victim-stancing game rather quickly. I guess she probably means she's received a good deal of criticism. But it makes one sound so much more righteous to call it "hate mail", doesn't it?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:55:02 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:30:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hall >From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:51:11 -0400 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org >>>http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html >>>Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>John Foster's incredible film speaks for itself... >>>Undeniably the best UFO footage ever recorded. There is only one >>>explanation for what you are witnessing here. >>>A craft from another world employing an inter-dimensional >>>cloaking technique, moving in and out of Earth's space at will. >>>The multiple maneuvers, including the under water, and corkscrew >>>techniques rule out all other explanations... >>That sounds a bit over the top to me. >>Anyone care to view the video and comment? >>My old machine probably can't handle the required plug-in. >I watched it, after turning off the annoying and idiotic music they >added. >The first sequence looks like a water droplet on the outside of >the plane window to me. It vanished because the airstream zaps >it. >The rest of the video doesn't look like anything at all to me. >I consider it a waste of time to watch, and a waste of bandwidth >to put up on the internet. Bob, How can we rule out that interdimensional aliens might look like
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:33:13 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:34:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Hatch >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:03:51 -0500 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org >>>http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html >>>Pennsylvania UFO Video >><snip> >>That sounds a bit over the top to me. >>Anyone care to view the video and comment? -LH <snip> >The 'Corkscrew' UFO video was so grainy that I could barely >discern that there was anything there at all. To me it was >worthless. >Terry - - - Thanks Terry, Bob, Richard, Amy and others who took the trouble to look at the video. Your word is good enough. So much for the claims: "Undeniably the best UFO footage ever recorded. There is only one explanation for what you are witnessing here. A craft from another world employing an inter-dimensional cloaking technique, moving in and out of Earth's space at will. The multiple maneuvers, including the under water, and corkscrew techniques rule out all other explanations..." I should expect as much from a site with Spiritual Awakening on its plate.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 23 Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:49:03 -1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:38:20 -0400 Subject: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Aloha List, I wish to announce a forthcoming conference in Hawaii. The conference description follows below with the confirmed speakers so far but more to be confirmed in the next few weeks. The website is www.etworldpeace.com and the sponsor is the recently established Exopolitics Institute. In peace, Michael Salla --- Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference Presented by the Exopolitics Institute June 9-11, 2006. Kona, Hawaii Advanced, ethical extraterrestrial civilizations have been visiting the earth with increased frequency since the dawn of the atomic age due to their concerns over the long term effects of nuclear weapons testing and war. Extensive evidence supports testimony from a number of 'whistleblowers' and 'contactees' that some of these extraterrestrial civilizations specifically approached world governments to ask for an end to nuclear weapons development due to dangers yet unknown to our scientists. Dangers which were (and still are) affecting the global environment, all species on the planet, and the fabric of time-space itself. There is further compelling evidence that visiting extraterrestrials have acted to mitigate the most severe aspects of military conflict, environmental degradation and weaponization of space; offering non-carbon energy alternatives; raising human consciousness; and have been actively promoting world peace through 'citizen diplomats'. This international conference will host a select group of experts, dignitaries, and 'citizen diplomats' to address a variety of key issues concerning the relationship between extraterrestrial civilizations and world peace. The conference will produce a 'Declaration' and an 'Action Plan' for how humanity can cooperate with visiting extraterrestrial civilizations to achieve world peace. Confirmed Speakers Dr Michael Salla (Exopolitics/Peace Researcher, Conference Convenor) Brigadier General Stephen Lovekin, Esq. (U.S. Army National Guard Reserve & Disclosure Witness) Paola Harris, M.Ed. (UFO/Exopolitics Researcher) Dr Thomas Hansen (UFO/Peace Educator) Alfred Webre, J.D. (Institute for Cooperation in Space) Joan Ocean, M.SC. (Cetacean Expert & Author of Dolphins into the Future) Jean Ederman (Extraterrestrial Contactee/Author of La Science des Extraterrestres) Capt Robert Salas (ret. US Air Force & Disclosure Witness) Neil Freer (Exoarcheology Researcher & Author of Breaking the Godspell) Lt Col. Wendelle Stevens, (ret. US Air Force & "Contactee" Researcher) JZ Knight (Founder of Ramtha School of Enlightenment) For further speaker information, please visit: www.etworldpeace.com The Exopolitics Institute is a non-profit organization based in Kealakekua, Hawaii dedicated to studying the key political actors, institutions and processes associated with credible
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 The Black Vault Newsletter 09-23-05 From: John Greenewald - The Black Vault <bounces.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:36:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:45:31 -0400 Subject: The Black Vault Newsletter 09-23-05 The Black Vault Newsletter September 23, 2005 Do Not Reply To This E-Mail - Reply to john.nul Pressing Reply will make it go to an unread mailbox used to process invalid e-mails. New Navigation Menu Added Television Work Credit Page John Greenewald's MySpace Account The Black Vault on ABC's Official Invasion Site New Navigation Menu http://www.bvalphaserver.com/ {http://www.bvalphaserver.com/} The Black Vault has a new easier to use navigation menu. Many of the links have been updated, and are easier to find. If you haven't been to The Black Vault in a while, please load the page. Many back-end updates and upgrades have been installed making the site faster and easier to navigate. Added Television Work Credit Page http://www.bvalphaserver.com/article15135.html {http://www.bvalphaserver.com/article15135.html} Since mid 2004, I began working in the world of television production. Beginning with three History Channel documentaries on UFOs which some of you may have seen, I have been determined to create some of the most thought provoking and educational programs that you can find on network television. Please load the above URL to find out more! John Greenewald's MySpace Account http://www.myspace.com/blackvault {http://www.myspace.com/blackvault} Throughout the past few months, Ive received more and more requests that I set up a MySpace account. If you are not familiar with MySpace... it is this site where you can have pictures, a blog, friends, etc. Well, it is a bit trendy, but I will say it is a very cool site and idea. So, after all these requests... I've set it up. So if you have an account... add me as your friend! After all, you guys motivated me to get a space over there. http://www.myspace.com/blackvault {http://www.myspace.com/blackvault} The Black Vault on ABC's Official Invasion Site http://abc.go.com/primetime/invasion/blog/01.html {http://abc.go.com/primetime/invasion/blog/01.html} The Black Vault has received quite an increase in traffic, due to the fact that ABC has put a link on their official Invasion website. Check out the above URL, and talk about the new show on The Black Vault Message Forums -- http://www.bvalphaserver.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=index {http://www.bvalphaserver.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=index} --- The Black Vault Newsletter September 23, 2005 DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL - Reply to john.nul Pressing Reply will make it go to an unread mailbox used to process invalid e-ma ils. New Navigation Menu Added Television Work Credit Page John Greenewald's MySpace Account The Black Vault on ABC's Official Invasion Site New Navigation Menu http://www.bvalphaserver.com/ The Black Vault has a new easier to use navigation menu. Many of the links have been updated, and are easier to find. If you haven't been to The Black Vault in a while, please load the page. Many back-end updates and upgrades have been installed making the site faster and easier to navigate. Added Television Work Credit Page http://www.bvalphaserver.com/article15135.html Since mid 2004, I began working in the world of television production. Beginning with three History Channel documentaries on UFOs which some of you may have seen, I have been determined to create some of the most thought provoking and educational programs that you can find on network television. Please load the above URL to find out more! John Greenewald's MySpace Account http://www.myspace.com/blackvault Throughout the past few months, Ive received more and more requests that I set up a MySpace account. If you are not familiar with MySpace... it is this site where you can have pictures, a blog, friends, etc. Well, it is a bit trendy, but I will say it is a very cool site and idea. So, after all these requests... I've set it up. So if you have an account... add me as your friend! After all, you guys motivated me to get a space over there. http://www.myspace.com/blackvault The Black Vault on ABC's Official Invasion Site http://abc.go.com/primetime/invasion/blog/01.html The Black Vault has received quite an increase in traffic, due to the fact that ABC has put a link on their official Invasion website. Check out the above URL, and talk about the new show on The Black Vault Message Forums --
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:15:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:56:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Chichikov >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:34:29 -0400 >Subject: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >Source: The Harvard Gazette - Cambridge, Massachusetts >http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/09.22/11-alien.html >23 September 2005 >Alien Abduction Claims Explained >Sleep paralysis, false memories involved <snip> >Strikingly, the first >group also scored high on underlying traits of fantasy >proneness, paranormal interests and experiences, and inability >to relate socially to others. I find it difficult to relate socially to people who are not fantasy prone. Their personalities seem to me flat and repressed. These persons tend also to reject all paranormal interests and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:57:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 08:59:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Maccabee >From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:51:11 -0400 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 .>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>Source: Frank Riccardi's Eyepod.Org >>>http://eyepod.org/Video-Penn-John-Foster.html >>>Pennsylvania UFO Video >>John Foster's incredible film speaks for itself... >>>Undeniably the best UFO footage ever recorded. There is only one >>>explanation for what you are witnessing here. <snip>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 00:59:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:02:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Velez >From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:53:37 +0100 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>Sleep paralysis, false memories involved >>By William J. Cromie >>Harvard News Office >>that found those who recalled childhood sexual abuse or >>abduction by aliens experience higher rates of sleep paralysis >>than those who do not make such claims. Strikingly, the first >>group also scored high on underlying traits of fantasy >>proneness, paranormal interests and experiences, and inability >>to relate socially to others. >Now that's very interesting. What this press release doesn't >mention is that McNally and Clancy actually had three separate >groups in this study - a group of people with recovered memories >of sexual abuse, a group with continuous memories of sexual >abuse and, of course, a control group. As expected, the >researchers' diagnostic instrument indicated a higher rate of >sleep paralysis among the recovered memory group compared to the >control group. However the instrument indicated that the rate of >sleep paralysis was also higher among the continuous memory >group, and by almost the same amount - which of course is >exactly contrary to their experimental hypothesis. I wonder - is >the press officer responsible for this confusion, or are McNally >and Clancy engaging in the time-honored practice of trying to >spin a negative result into a positive one? >I'm also amused to see that Clancy now claims to have been >"bombarded with hate e-mails". It looks like she's learnt to >play the victim-stancing game rather quickly. I guess she >probably means she's received a good deal of criticism. But it >makes one sound so much more righteous to call it "hate mail", >doesn't it? Hi Cathy, Revealing comment and well said! What bothers me though is how the 'abductees' are being portrayed as the angry, threatening authors of 'hate mail,' which then apparently drove this brave young lass to lose herself in her work in darkest Central America. Clancy's work is nothing more than the bastardized, rehashed twaddle that Elizabeth Loftus and Robert Baker have spewed since the mid-nineties. I have been pointing out for years that the 'false memory' theories of Elizabeth Loftus and the 'sleep paralysis' theory of the late Robert Baker - as applied to UFO abduction reports - are inadequate in terms of explaining all the reported phenomena. They also happen to be theories/explanations which are basically -mutually exclusive. Somehow Clancy has managed to artificially graft these two divergent theories together into a 'psycho-babble Frankenstein' of an explanation for all abduction reports. Check it out: Cathy, in 1977 while on my way home from a friend's house I had a frightening close encounter with a large, football shaped light which hovered silently in the sky above me. I ran as fast as I could for my front door -which was one city block away. As I ran from the UFO, from one second to the next - with no sensation of any time having passed - I went from being in the middle of an all-out pumping run late at night, to sitting bolt upright in my bed with strong morning sunlight peeping through the blinds of my bedroom. One of my eyes was swollen shut, and I had been bleeding from my nose. The whole night had passed and I didn't recall a thing. All I knew was; one second I am running, and then I'm suddenly sitting up in my bed hours later the next second. After discovering the shocking physical condition I was in, I ended up at an emergency room where the attending physician added to the intrigue by inquiring about my recent nasal surgery. (?) The doctor found evidence of 'surgery' inside my head where none had ever been performed. Not by any 'earthly' doctors anyway. A conscious, wide-awake UFO sighting/encounter, one that was frighteningly close up, as if 'focused in me.' (Nobody else was around.) Coupled with 'missing time' (a whole night disappeared!) add to that traumatic physical symptoms with no apparent cause or explanation, and which were severe enough to require a trip to an emergency room. Please tell me, what does _any_ of the above have to do with 'sleep paralysis' or 'false memory'? Although the incident I related ends up in my bed... it didn't start there. It all began back on the street with a large UFO overhead. And although I could never explain it, I never 'forgot it' either. So again I ask, how does either theory apply? No wonder so many "abductees" are pissed at Clancy. It's true what they say too... Clancy's blowing smoke, she doesn't know what she's talking about. She _wasn't_ there! And hey, the incident I related above... is just one of many. A single event in a lifetime of UFO sightings and odd encounters with 'things that go bump in the night.' Since childhood. Until someone can find an explanation for the abductions and UFO encounters (along with the attendant physical marks and scars) that all take place while people are wide awake and in the middle of their day, (and missing in real time BTW, where others are actively looking for them,) until then, explanations like sleep paralysis and false memory syndrome fall far short of adequately answering the challenges presented by a great many of the reports. I always appreciate your thoughtful comments on this subject, Cathy. You are among a _very_few_ individuals I can say that about.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 05:32:31 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:35:38 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Sparks >From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:46:05 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:14:26 -0300 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:15:18 +0100 >>>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>>The notion of governments keeping UFOs secret indefinitely is >>>>one of the most absurd ideas in ufology. The technical term for >>>>educated people, who should know better, propagating this belief >>>>is "intellectual dishonesty". >>There is nothing at all absurd about governments keeping the >>best data (crashes, destruction of aircraft, etc) secret. Just >>this past week the NRO, for the first time, admitted it had >>launched and operated with several other agencies, a number of >>POPPY Satellites between 1962 and 1971 to monitor electronic >>information from Soviet ships at sea. Average time in orbit was >>34 months. Lots of money and people. Totally secret. >Kept secret because they had _control_ of the project. But >note that it was eventually made public. How does the US >government manage to have the same control over crashing UFOs >when such incidents can happen, unpredictably, anywhere in the >world, at any time? Why do ETH believers always manage to avoid >giving a sensible answer to this obvious question? That's a very good point. The US government could not have kept control over such an explosive secret as proof of alien visitation, it would have leaked. There is no emotional drive behind leaking a technical ELINT (electronic intelligence) satellite such as POPPY. Who cares besides a few space buffs and intelligence agents? Whereas the reality of extraterrestrial life would disturb the secret- keepers' sleep, administer a profound culture shock, drive one or more of them to blurt it out because it would shake them to the core in so many ways no one (except a few sociopaths) could hold it in forever. But that just means it would _leak_, not that there would be an official announcement. Then the question becomes: Has it leaked? Well, many people claim it has, most of them not very credible. Why are so many leakers who claim to leak the supposed US recovery of proof of ET visitation turn out so non-credible? ETH advocates (I am not one) say this is because "where there's smoke there must be fire" so the sheer number of leakers claiming US proof of ETH indicates it must be true. But they can't explain why so many have proven to be liars or questionable or contradictory in their stories. Their screening of such leakers is naive and simplistic, basically consisting of seeing how impressive their military rank or status seems to have been (the exocranial flakes do not even apply that simplistic criterion, they accept everyone who tells a story they want to hear or promote and that's their bogus "methodology"). The skeptics and debunkers claim that the fact so many claimants of US proof of ET turn out to be frauds or questionable is because there is nothing to the stories or the idea. But they cannot explain why there are so many alleged leakers. There is no money to be made from it, except in the case of very exceptional writers who have the right literary contacts. Few such leakers have gained any substantial publicity (I'm trying hard to think of any, maybe Frank Kaufmann) making publicity- seeking a poor explanation. So the sheer numbers are not adequately explained by skeptics and debunkers. There is another explanation: The crashed saucer recovery "leaks" are disinformation and that is why there is so much of it, the US government is secretly behind the promotion of such stories. The question then becomes: Why? 1. Is the crashed-saucer disinformation designed to hide a deep, dark, dirty secret like US war crimes (the Redfern thesis)? 2. Is it designed to hide the real leaks of the US recovery of alien proof by discrediting the real in a mass of fakes so no one can tell the difference (the Friedman thesis)? 3. Is the alien recovery disinformation intended to pursue a secrecy Cold War policy such as discrediting the UFO subject in the minds of the American people? This disinformation would create an immense "giggle factor" to the UFO subject so the Soviets could never get away with claiming UFO's were Soviet secret weapons. Everyone would simply apply the "giggle factor" to any such Soviet effort to exploit the subject for crass propaganda purposes. 4. Is the alien disinformation crafted to to fool the Russians into thinking we possess a supersecret weapon? These questions can only be answered by an in-depth investigation. They can't be settled by a priori arguments. I have conducted a many-years-long investigation of US disinformation operations on the UFO subject. I have identified two major US covert programs by their distinct and differing disinformation policies on the content of the propaganda, and these divide up according to the identity of the sponsoring agencies involved, who seem to not coordinate or even know of each other's operations through most of UFO history. <snip> >>The Eisenhower Library admits it still has 300,000 pages of >>classified documents. The NSA has released 156 UFO documents >>that are almost entirely whited out except for 1-3 lines per >>page. The CIA still won't release what is under the blacked-out >>material covering all but 8 words in some of its UFO documents. >How do you know that the whited-out material has anything to do >with the UFOs rather than details of the performance of military >aricraft and radar, and methods for gathering intelligence, >which are legitimately being kept secret from potential enemies? <snip> One can tell from the material released and other info what is being withheld in the sanitized areas of such documents. The documents NSA released with heavy deletions are intercepts of "in the clear" unencrypted Soviet bloc military communications reporting UFO- type sightings. These intercepts include UFO details (not enough were reported to know if they were Unexplained UFO's) but delete the date-time groups and military unit locations on the bogus excuse that this omission would prevent the Russians from identifying the actual messages and thereby determining which codes we had broken. Thus I have no confidence that the NSA has deleted only non-UFO details -- they may well have deleted a lot of UFO-related detail. But as I said these are not encrypted communications but unencrypted so there were no codes broken. The Russians know exactly where our NSA intercept stations are located, one simply looks up all the NSA, AFSS, NSGC, and ASA units and looks for antennas. The NSA has evidently not cataloged or searched for any
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 FBI HQ Acknowledges FOIA Klass Request From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:53:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:23:29 -0400 Subject: FBI HQ Acknowledges FOIA Klass Request FBI Hq Acknowledges FOIA Request (Or: "Man Bites Dog"?) By Larry W. Bryant In a form letter dated Sept. 20, 2005, the U. S. Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington, D. C., via the person of David M. Hardy in the records management division, responded to my freedom-of-information request of Aug. 12, 2005, in which I seek access to all FBI records pertaining to the activities and associations of the late UFO-reality debunker Philip J. Klass. (See the request's text below.) Besides assigning a 10-digit case number to my request, Hardy customized the form letter by adding this original line: "Your request was also forwarded to FBI headquarters from our Boston and Los Angeles Field Offices." The letter's closing declares: "We are searching the indices to our central records system at FBI Headquarters for the information you requested, and will inform you of the results as soon as possible." Of course, based on my experience, the waiting period for my receiving any records via these search results could last more than a year. So, any breathless readers of my updates might have to exhale/inhale an acceptance of the Bureau's final tidbit of advice: "Your patience is appreciated." Question of the Quarter: Who will cough up their records first: the foot-dragging FOIA officials at Langley Air Force Base, Va. (re my UFO-related request of July 27, 2005); or those officials' far-more-efficient (but ostensibly overworked) counterparts in FBI-land? Stay tuned. ----- Text OF LWB's FOIA Request Of Aug. 12, 2005: To: Director U. S. Federal Bureau of Investigation ATTN: Freedom of Information Manager Washington, DC 20535 From: Larry W. Bryant Date: August 12, 2005 This freedom-of-information request for a copy of all FBI-generated and FBI-received records pertaining to the activities, associations, and intentions of the late Philip J. Klass (1919 - Aug. 9, 2005) (see the below-quoted text of his initial death notice) derives from his public-figure status as an apologist for, if not an abettor of, the U. S. government's orchestration of the worldwide cover-up of the UFO experience - particularly as regards his role in encouraging your Bureau to spy upon (and record) the conduct and motivations of such UFO researchers as William L. Moore of Los Angeles, Calif., and Stanton T. Friedman of New Brunswick, Canada. Accordingly, because of the wide public-interest nature of any and all Klass-related records maintained by any agency, I ask that, in your response to this request, you waive all fees incident to your search of all FBI manually/digitally indexed records systems. By snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed printout of this e-formatted letter.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:38:22 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:38:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:49:03 -1000 >Subject: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >Aloha List, >I wish to announce a forthcoming conference in Hawaii. The >conference description follows below with the confirmed speakers >so far but more to be confirmed in the next few weeks. The >website is www.etworldpeace.com and the sponsor is the recently >established Exopolitics Institute. I looked up the conference website and found this: "The conference will produce a 'Declaration' and an 'Action Plan' for how humanity can cooperate with visiting extraterrestrial civilizations to achieve world peace." I have no problem with Dr Salla doing this work, more power to him and his colleagues. My concern is that it will do absolutely no good... if/when ETs decide to make themselves known formally, then who is going to contract these specialists to ask what 'action plan' should be implemented? The 'visitors'? The authorities? Similarly, thousands of man/woman-years have gone into UFO studies but who is going to call a UFO 'expert' ('ufologist'!) when a craft lands on the White House lawn. It seems that all this expertise will be ignored by those in power. Also, after the first contact, how much of that expertise will still be relevant or valid? (Is there a contact protocol that includes civilian 'experts' that is likely to be used?)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Mr. Namiki? From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:06:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:40:20 -0400 Subject: Mr. Namiki? Could anyone with contact information on Ufologist Namiki Shin'ichiro of the Japan Space Phenomena Society, please pass on my request to contact him? Please send him my email address
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Larry Hatch E-mail Downed By Rita From: Larry Hatch <hatchlarry.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 04:31:42 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:54:54 -0400 Subject: Larry Hatch E-mail Downed By Rita Hello all: Just a heads up here... As a result of Hurricane Rita, my e-mail is down. My host ISP (S.E. Texas) is apparently on battery power. To conserve that, they shut down their email servers, but left up internet access, so I could still get up this temporary Hotmail address. I hope they have lots of fresh batteries. I will check it from time to time until things return to abnormal. Please keep my usual email addresses on the books, even if some emails bounce. This temporary address is hatchlarry.nul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 They're Coming Are we ready? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:05:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:05:05 -0400 Subject: They're Coming Are we ready? Source: The Globe & Mail - Toronto http://tinyurl.com/c4a4o Page M3 Saturday, September 24, 2005 This weekend, Toronto will host some of the UFO community's more level-headed types, writes Anthony Reinhart. They believe alien visitors are on the way, and we should be prepared to make contact They're coming. Are we ready? By Anthony Reinhart Saturday, September 24, 2005 On a warm September evening in 1975, while sipping pre-dinner drinks outside with his family, Mike Bird found his truth right here - not "out there," as they would say later on the X-Files. From his perch on Close Avenue in south Parkdale, Mr. Bird turned his 24-year-old eyes to "a bright, fuzzy ball, just sitting there, shimmering" over Lake Ontario. "I watched it for two hours," says Mr. Bird, now 54, recalling how he fetched his telescope and trained it southward. "My wife looked at it, my parents looked at it. Before long, I was firmly convinced that we were dealing with something real." Tomorrow, at the University of Toronto's Convocation Hall, Mr. Bird will join hundreds of fellow earthlings who, he hopes, will be similarly convinced - not only that UFOs exist, but that governments know far more about extraterrestrial visitors than they're letting on. "It's not about selling T-shirts," he says of the event. "It's about putting up the best speakers who can represent the position that we are not alone." The day-long symposium, dubbed Exopolitics Toronto, is an effort by the UFO community's more moderate and serious adherents to prod officialdom into opening its own X-files so that citizens of Earth can plan for the day aliens make contact. Their beef about secrecy is an old one, easily dismissed by skeptics inured to supermarket tabloids, sci-fi blockbusters and out-there conspiracy theories. The trouble, Mr. Bird and his colleagues say, is that credible data get overlooked in the process. To them, official disclosure would not only help to silence the skeptics, but also the wackier elements of the UFO community, who only make the issue easier for the rest of us to laugh off and for governments to avoid. "I stopped reading science fiction once I saw that the UFO was real," says Mr. Bird, the regional head of Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), a small but committed international band of volunteer investigators, founded in the United States in the 1960s. "It became science fact that just hasn't been proven yet." Soon after his Close Avenue encounter 30 years ago, Mr. Bird heard a radio ad for a night course on UFOs at Castle Frank High School, taught by Henry McKay, founder of MUFON Canada. He signed up, and a year later, he and Mr. McKay rounded up a dozen others, rented a small bus and headed to a MUFON conference in Michigan. There, they heard J. Allen Hynek, the astrophysicist who set out to debunk UFO claims for the U.S. Air Force in the 1950s - only to find that he couldn't. Dr. Hynek, who coined the term "close encounters of the third kind" before Steven Spielberg made it famous, was among the first scientists to lend credibility to UFO study. Mr. Bird, a computer programmer and recreational hockey player, cannot claim similar credentials. He does, however, claim an abundance of curiosity, fuelled by that first sighting in 1975, and three more since then in the Toronto area. In the early days, Mr. Bird would sit on the roof of his father's cottage and scan the night sky, but he saw nothing but stars and satellites. Subsequent sightings came during field investigations for MUFON, which he sometimes conducts with other members, but not his wife. ("She's not enamoured by it," he admits, "but she doesn't think I'm a nut.") The last one happened three years ago just west of the city. "I was standing in a crop formation north of Milton," Mr. Bird says. "I look up and I see this super-bright light up to the north and west of me." He watched the big light overtake a smaller one, from a plane, and head east toward Pearson airport. Thoughts that it might have been an unusually bright jetliner disappeared weeks later when he found a similar report on the Seattle-based National UFO Reporting Center's website. It described a sighting near Kingston, several hundred kilometres to the east, from the same night. "To me, that's a match," Mr. Bird says, "but I don't need a match. I need to get down to the hard work of making this mean something." That can be a lonely job in Canada, much less Toronto. MUFON counts just 50 members coast to coast, while similar local groups have come and gone. Mr. Bird hosts occasional meetings at an Etobicoke library, which typically attract about 20 of the curious - though few are curious enough to join MUFON. All volunteer investigators must first pass a test on the contents of a 311-page field manual, which sets out strict procedures for evidence-gathering. As for tomorrow's conference, advance ticket sales were slow this week, but Mr. Bird, hoping for a crowd of at least 1,500, is banking on a lot of walk-in traffic. "We think we're bringing forth the best people on the planet," he says of the five speakers on the bill. Most anticipated, perhaps, is the latest addition to that list: Paul Hellyer, a former defence minister in Lester Pearson's Liberal government, who believes that UFOs exist, and that officials have been too quiet about it. Also on the list are American author and historian Richard Dolan; researcher Stanton Friedman of New Brunswick; and Stephen Bassett, Washington's only registered UFO research lobbyist and a frequent speaker on "exopolitics" - the policies humans might employ in the event of contact with extraterrestrial beings. Like many in the movement, Mr. Bird puts great stock in the hundreds of plausible, if unproven, accounts that MUFON has collected in firsthand interviews, often from sources who are easy to trust: astronauts, military and commercial pilots, police officers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Toronto Symposium Speakers On SDI Tonight From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:46:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:46:38 -0400 Subject: Toronto Symposium Speakers On SDI Tonight Three Toronto Symposium Speakers On SDI Tonight Stephen G. Bassett, Richard Dolan and Stanton T. Friedman will be in-studio guests on Strange Days... Indeed, tonight between 9:00 & 11:00pm, Eastern. The program is broadcast by NewsTalk 1010 CFRB in Toronto and Montreal's NewsTalk Leader CJAD 800. It can also be heard via MediaPlayer. Links to both stations are at: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/ All three guests along with former Canadian Minister, Paul Hellyer will speak tomorrow, at the University of Toronto's Convocation Hall. The doors open at 9:00am. For more information on the Symposium see: http://www.exopoliticstoronto.com/index.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Reverse Engineering & Alien Astronautics From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:57:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:57:37 -0400 Subject: Reverse Engineering & Alien Astronautics Source: Astrosciences Research Network - Scottsdale, Arizona http://www.astrosciences.info/REAA.htm 23 September 2005 Reverse Engineering And Alien Astronautics By William Hamilton III The alleged recovery of a flying disk near Roswell, New Mexico in July 1947 has sparked discussions, opinions, and reports that the U.S. Army and Air Force studied the remnants of the disk, especially the methods and modes of its propulsion with the intent of �reverse engineering� the advanced technology found in the alien craft. Is it even possible to comprehend such advanced technology much less attempt to duplicate its function? We will examine these possibilities in this article and try to sum up what has been learned to date. <snip> More & images:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Shell From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:03:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:45:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Shell >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:55:02 +0000 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >How can we rule out that interdimensional aliens might look like >water droplets on the window? (A little exopolitical logic >there.)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Light Circles? - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:07:43 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:52:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - Shough >From: Roy Hale <vinyl.lover10.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:20:13 +0100 >Subject: Light Circles? >A friend of mine sent me the following link: >http://www.cdk.si/grz/sv_krogi_e.htm >Has anyone else come across this kind of light phenomena? Yes I have seen this in Scotland, last year and the year before, in one memorable case reflected like a perfectly placed Saltire (the national flag, a St. Andrew's cross) on the turret of a civic building. I could identify the reflecting window but it was still very striking. If it is true as claimed that the effect is increasingly frequent (rather than just being more frequently noticed because sites like the above are drawing attention to it) my guess is that it must have something to do with some recent change in glazing techniques. The instances I've seen have involved double-glazed sealed units. I wondered at first if solar heating of the glass causes expansion of the panes which, being fixed in a rectangular sealed unit, are forced to deform slightly. Light could be scattered internally between the panes in some way. But I have also seen the same type of effect in sunlight reflected
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Shell From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:55:12 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:53:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Shell >From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:03:26 -0400 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:55:02 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>How can we rule out that interdimensional aliens might look like >>water droplets on the window? (A little exopolitical logic >>there.) >Of course we can't rule out VSALLWD's (Very Small Aliens that >Look Like Water Drops). I'm sure they go around abducting >mosquitos and ants and doing weird things to them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:55:35 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:25:08 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:16:02 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>There are a world of possibilities but I was trying to limit >>this discussion to what is known, or possibly known, to be >>objectively real. I don't have faith in time travel, worm hole >>entrances, or exotic drives or warp drivers, or any of the >>myriad of possible ways to get from here to there at light >>speeds. I understand faith and respect it, but I've lost mine. >Yes, Ed, I understand _exactly_ what you have been trying to do. >I've understood it since your first word. That's the crux of the >problem - what you are trying to do! >We were discussing if star to star travel was possible - if ET >could get from there to here - and if the alleged creature in >the alleged AA film could be from anywhere else but Earth. As >you said above, "I'm trying to limit ..." and that's where the >problem comes in. >Not only are you trying to limit this discussion to entertaining >only certain possibilities (and labelling anything that shows >them to be wrong as 'side-tracking' and the discussion 'going >downhill') but, even worse, you're limiting what is possible - >regarding what humans and ET (assuming he exists) can accomplish >via technology - based on our _earlier_ understanding of science >(physics). I doubt that star travel is possible. There isn�t any reason to believe that star travel is occurring except witness testimony, which I find convincing, indicating that unusual machines are flying through our sky. Many of you have jumped to the conclusion that these machines are from other star systems, and use these observations to buttress your beliefs. Other than that, you have no evidence. I�d like any discussion in which I participate limited to the nature of the creature, drawings, the debris and the crash site because these can be objectively studied. Your eloquent soliloquys weren't convincing to me. >The whole point is that you're basing these restrictions on a >physics that current research is showing to be describing only >limited conditions in our universe - research that is leading to >a larger, more encompassing physics under which the physics of >Newton and Einstein are subsumed. I�m limiting my belief that �science(physics)� will be able to accomplish star travel. And I have no faith that other life forms on other star systems have physics that will allow them to flit from star to star. I�m skeptical of your views as are the vast majority of scientists. You might be correct, but I�m betting against you. I�d be happy to discuss the AA footage, the drawings, or the crash site but you seem reluctant to do that. >>and I now see clearly >>what's so exasperating to scientists when they try to argue >>their skeptical views with those who believe we are being >>visited by starships driven by star pilots. >Again, these arguements - these skeptical views - are from >scientists locked into a 'passing physics'. When general >relativity is merged with quantum theory sometime in the future, >I think the 'views' of scientists won't be the skeptical ones >you're embracing now. Maybe so but I�m interested in the here-and-now. In that reality, star travel is not possible for many reasons. When I eliminate that possibility, the only explanation left is that these speedy vehicles and the occupants who are observed driving them are from our own solar system. >Anyway, you're wrong about scientists and their views, even now! >They don't all hold skeptical views. For instance, Stan's a >scientist. He's not handing us the 'skeptical views' regarding >interstellar travel you're telling us about. Do some homework - >he's not the only one! Some scientists are open to these ideas, but the vast majority are skeptical. I have done my homework and spent much more time examining your ideas than you�ve spent looking at the evidence for the AA. As far as I can tell, you still haven�t read my crash site article, or viewed the cameraman�s drawings, or looked at the AA footage, or read Dennis Murphy�s article on the debris. I�m interested in the Alien Autopsy and how it pertains to the questions, which seem to perplex those interested in UFO. If you want to discuss this with me, then go for it. As for your
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:59:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 14:58:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Maccabee >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:03:51 -0500 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video <snip> >I don't know which 'Bluebook' case it was but I remember an old >episode of "Project UFO" in which a passenger on a plane saw an >object very similar to the one shown in the video. When they >took a plane up and flew the same course in the same weather >conditions the object again appeared then disappeared the same >way. The explanation was a temperature inversion that was merely >reflecting part of the planes fuselage at a certain point. Being >a case supposedly from Project Bluebook maybe somebody knows >about it. That is one of the least physically acceptable explanations I have heard. Optical reflections from temperature inversions are essentially mirages. Mirages occur when light ray paths are bent by a small fraction of degree. No mirage could create a reflection of part of an airplane that would be visible to pasengers in the plane. Such a reflection would require the light ray paths to be bent "backwards" or about 180 degrees, far far beyond the effects of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:59:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:01:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Maccabee >Source: The Harvard Gazette - Cambridge, Massachusetts >http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/09.22/11-alien.html >23 September 2005 >Alien Abduction Claims Explained >Sleep paralysis, false memories involved >By William J. Cromie >Harvard News Office >Many of the people who believe they have been abducted by aliens >are bombarding Susan Clancy with hate e-mails and phone calls. >The Harvard researcher, who has spent five years listening to >the stories of some 50 abductees, has described her (and their) >experiences in a new book to be published in October. >Clancy, 36, likes most of these people. "They are definitely not >crazy," she says. But they do have "a tendency to fantasize and >to hold unusual beliefs and ideas. They believe not only in >alien abductions, but also in things like UFOs, ESP, astrology, >tarot, channeling, auras, and crystal therapy. They also have in >common a rash of disturbing experiences for which they are >seeking an explanation. For them, alien abduction is the best >fit." >As you might guess, the people behind all that hate mail and the >phone calls don't buy that. They were there, she wasn't, they >insist. >In her book, "Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were >Kidnapped by Aliens," to be published by the Harvard University >Press, Clancy describes a typical reaction. "Can you believe the >nerve of that girl (Clancy)," one abductee says. "She comes to >me, like, 'Oh, I believe you've been abducted! Let me interview >you to learn more.... Oh, what really happened [she says] is >sleep paralysis.' Riiight! How the - - does she know? Did it >happen to her? There was something in the room that night! I was >spinning. I blacked out ... it was terrifying.... I wasn't >sleeping. I was taken. I was violated, ripped apart - literally, >figuratively, metaphorically, whatever you want to call it. Does >she know what that's like?" <snip> >"Boy, was I na=EFve," she says in retrospect. "You can't disprove >alien abductions. All you can do is show that evidence is >insufficient to justify the belief, and try to understand why >people have those beliefs." >On the way to doing this, she, McNally, and their colleagues >made some tantalizing discoveries. Measurements of sweating, >heart rate, and brain waves showed that those claiming to be >abductees show the same symptoms of post-traumatic stress >syndrome as combat veterans. The researchers did not, however, >conclude that the abductees had experienced combat-type trauma. >Rather, they believe, it is the emotional significance of a >memory, whether it is true or not, that causes sweaty hands and >rapid heartbeats. >Earlier this year, Clancy and McNally reported on another study >that found those who recalled childhood sexual abuse or >abduction by aliens experience higher rates of sleep paralysis >than those who do not make such claims. Strikingly, the first >group also scored high on underlying traits of fantasy >proneness, paranormal interests and experiences, and inability >to relate socially to others. >Add to this mixture a recurring interest in aliens expressed in >books, in movies, and on television, as well as true discoveries >of more than 150 planets orbiting other stars in our galaxy. >Overwhelmed by this hurricane of sleep paralysis, false >memories, and fantasy, some people seek explanations and succor >in ghosts, reincarnations, and multiple personalities. Others >find that alien abductions provide answers and peace of mind, >says Clancy. >"It probably doesn't matter much to the abductees whether they >are right or wrong," she comments. "They simply feel better >because of what they believe." Why does reading this article make me want to throw up? Maybe I'll get PTSD from reading it. By the way, Clancy ever hear of non-sleep related abduction reports? Note that her whole research analysis is based on the assumption
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Clinton's 1995 Roswell Comment On-line From: Giuliano Marinkovic <giuliano.marinkovic.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:12:45 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:05:11 -0400 Subject: Clinton's 1995 Roswell Comment On-line President Bill Clinton - Belfast, Ireland 30th November 1995: "I got a letter from 13-year-old Ryan from Belfast. Now, Ryan, if you're out in the crowd tonight, here's the answer to your question. No, as far as I know, an alien spacecraft did not crash in Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947. (Laughter.) And, Ryan, if the United States Air Force did recover alien bodies, they didn't tell me about it, either, and I want to know. (Applause.)" 30th of November 1995., US president Bill Clinton was on a official visit to Belfast. In his many public relations he has constantly addressed the message of peace to confronted sides. During the switching of the Christmas tree in the Belfast City hall, Clinton has suddenly made interesting comment that in later years will be obssesion for the UFO community. I can remember that I have made first comment about this Clinton's speech with Damir Popovic, editor of the radio show 'UFOport' during 1996. After the following years, the UFO community wanted to find the sense in Clinton's reference. The question was asked; 'Was the Clinton reference prepared in advance to make the additional pressure towards the US Airforce to release all available documents about the Roswell incident so the case could be finaly concluded?' The following years, more and more information has been released which have pointed more sense in Clinton's words.The ufologist Bruce Maccabee after the Clinton's mandate has recalled how he was asked to prepare overview for official UFO briefing for the president's scientific advisor. Later, thanks to the Freedom of information act, canadian researcher Grant Cameron has made indeepth analysis of many documents which are pointing the interest in UFO's during the Clinton's administration and pressures from philantrop Laurence Rockefeller in an attempt to solve the UFO enigma which had connection, more or the less, with many official initiatives, like the famous official Roswell GAO investigation, initiated by late congressman Steven Schiff. In January 2004. I have started with intensive search to find the famous Clinton's speech in Belfast. The Roswell reference was a reference, quoted by many, but no one it seemed to have the actual recording, audio or video. During the investigation, that I have done partialy with Grant Cameron, we have been able, thanks to canadian host Errol Bruce Knapp of the show 'Strange Days Indeed' to locate only one part of the recording. An year ago, I have contacted the official staff of the Clinton's library but at the time they have told me that they don't have the recording in quesiton. After some time, Grant has told me that he was able to get the recording from Clinton's library but unfortunately the Roswell part was cuted out from the recording. So we were again at the beginning. After the world wide search, at last I was able to find the valid trail. There was a person in Ireland who had private archive of many live TV recordings. After all, I could feel that I am on the right track. And I was right. After 22 months of search I was finaly able to locate the recording that UFO community has constantly quoted in the last 10 years. So to make it available for other researches and colleagues I have put in online. You can listen the quote directly at; http://tinyurl.com/9z6e7 http://www.uforadio.cjb.net There you will notice small REAL AUDIO PLUGIN window and simply press Play. If you have Windows XP SP2, your service pack could blok the plugin but to activate it, simply point your mouse to the upper line which says ACTIVE and you will be able to listen. Of course the point of this search, wasn't to prove or disprove that the source of the Roswell crash was 'alien spacecraft'. Clearly, one interesting official reference isn't enough to make any final conclusion. The point of this search was only to locate and create multimedia archive of historical material for researchers to see the the amplitude of official aproach towards the UFO question during the years of modern ufology. Thanks also for all other colleagues who have helped me in this search that lasted 22 months. The DVD transfer from VHS of the whole Belfast event in 1995. will be sent to colleagues who have participated in the investigation very soon. Best regards Giuliano Marinkovic Author and Host of the radio program 'UFO_NAUTICA' Gsm: +385-98-900-2649
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:33:34 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:08:01 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson >From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:25:08 -0300 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:16:02 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia <snip> >>Again, these arguements - these skeptical views - are from >>scientists locked into a 'passing physics'. When general >>relativity is merged with quantum theory sometime in the future, >>I think the 'views' of scientists won't be the skeptical ones >>you're embracing now. >Maybe so but I�m interested in the here-and-now. In that reality, >star travel is not possible for many reasons. When I eliminate >that possibility, the only explanation left is that these speedy >vehicles and the occupants who are observed driving them are from >our own solar system. Sorry Edward, your 'here and now' is necessarily clinging only to the ignorance of 'establishment' scientists and to anthropomorphic bias - see: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/sep/m21-010.shtml There are no reasons for believing that our present "science" is in any way representative of the real universe. If you disbelieve that - refer to: http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/oldnews1.txt and links. And if you disbelieve that, well, go back to the flat earth society where you (would seem to) belong. Cheers Ray D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 24 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:42:18 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:11:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Shough >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:59:15 -0400 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:03:51 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video ><snip> >>I don't know which 'Bluebook' case it was but I remember an old >>episode of "Project UFO" in which a passenger on a plane saw an >>object very similar to the one shown in the video. When they >>took a plane up and flew the same course in the same weather >>conditions the object again appeared then disappeared the same >>way. The explanation was a temperature inversion that was merely >>reflecting part of the planes fuselage at a certain point. Being >>a case supposedly from Project Bluebook maybe somebody knows >>about it. >That is one of the least physically acceptable explanations I >have heard. >Optical reflections from temperature inversions are essentially >mirages. Mirages occur when light ray paths are bent by a small >fraction of degree. No mirage could create a reflection of part >of an airplane that would be visible to pasengers in the plane. >Such a reflection would require the light ray paths to be bent >"backwards" or about 180 degrees, far far beyond the effects of >any temperature inversion. But, of course, the Project UFO staff >wouldn't know that. >After all,any explanation is better than none (debunker rule >#1), even if it makes no sense. There was a case featured in a BBC documentary many years ago involving a cine film taken through a cabin window by a passenger on a commercial flight, showing a cigar with fins that appeared to turn, foreshorten and vanish. That was reconstructed on another flight and apparently turned out to be an image of a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:06:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:38:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:38:22 +0200 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:49:03 -1000 >>Subject: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>Aloha List, >>I wish to announce a forthcoming conference in Hawaii. The >>conference description follows below with the confirmed speakers >>so far but more to be confirmed in the next few weeks. The >>website is www.etworldpeace.com and the sponsor is the recently >>established Exopolitics Institute. >I looked up the conference website and found this: "The >conference will produce a 'Declaration' and an 'Action Plan' for >how humanity can cooperate with visiting extraterrestrial >civilizations to achieve world peace." >I have no problem with Dr Salla doing this work, more power to >him and his colleagues. My concern is that it will do absolutely >no good... if/when ETs decide to make themselves known formally, >then who is going to contract these specialists to ask what >'action plan' should be implemented? The 'visitors'? The >authorities? Why should we expect the supposed aliens to be interested in promoting peace on our planet? For all we know the ETs are even more warlike than us, and are keen to encourage interplanetary war. Dr Salla assumes (from his whistleblowers I guess) that these
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Watson From: VALIS23A.nul Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:37:25 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:41:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Watson From: Nigel Watson <valis23a.nul> To: <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>Source: The Harvard Gazette - Cambridge, Massachusetts >>http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/09.22/11-alien.html >>23 September 2005 >>Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>Sleep paralysis, false memories involved >>By William J. Cromie >>Harvard News Office <snip> >>"It probably doesn't matter much to the abductees whether they >>are right or wrong," she comments. "They simply feel better >>because of what they believe." >Why does reading this article make me want to throw up? >Maybe I'll get PTSD from reading it. >By the way, Clancy ever hear of non-sleep related abduction >reports? >Note that her whole research analysis is based on the assumption >that there are no true sleep-related abductions. >She doesn't dare say anything about non-sleep related abductions >because if even one of these was an actual occurrence, then she >couldn't be certain that there was no sleep-related abduction. Hi, Why are ufologists so upset when they read about sleep paralysis explanations and the like for abductions? Surely, we should be pleased that we can eliminate these type of cases as evidence of any ET or other extra-mundane origin. This should give us the chance to study the cases that might indicate something beyond human psychology and social pressures. Aren't non-sleep related cases those of the so-called contactees? What are the best non-sleep related cases if they do not involve contactees?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:44:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Groff >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:59:15 -0400 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:03:51 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video ><snip> >>I don't know which 'Bluebook' case it was but I remember an old >>episode of "Project UFO" in which a passenger on a plane saw an >>object very similar to the one shown in the video. When they >>took a plane up and flew the same course in the same weather >>conditions the object again appeared then disappeared the same >>way. The explanation was a temperature inversion that was merely >>reflecting part of the planes fuselage at a certain point. Being >>a case supposedly from Project Bluebook maybe somebody knows >>about it. >That is one of the least physically acceptable explanations I >have heard. >Optical reflections from temperature inversions are essentially >mirages. Mirages occur when light ray paths are bent by a small >fraction of degree. No mirage could create a reflection of part >of an airplane that would be visible to pasengers in the plane. >Such a reflection would require the light ray paths to be bent >"backwards" or about 180 degrees, far far beyond the effects of >any temperature inversion. But, of course, the Project UFO staff >wouldn't know that. >After all,any explanation is better than none (debunker rule >#1), even if it makes no sense. Hi Bruce, You have to remember that I was trying to recall something that I saw on TV almost 30 years ago. I've slept since then. :-) I could have been wrong about the temperature inversion. I really don't remember anything except that in the episode they were able to duplicate the event. Whether it actually happened or not, I don't know. I was hoping that someone on the List might recall the actual Blue Book Case so it could be looked up to see what BB's explanation really was. You know, some of their explanations might actually be correct.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Light Circles? - White From: Eleanor White <Eeleanor.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:34:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:46:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - White >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:07:43 +0100 >Subject: Re: Light Circles? <snip> >If it is true as claimed that the effect is increasingly >frequent (rather than just being more frequently noticed because >sites like the above are drawing attention to it) my guess is >that it must have something to do with some recent change in >glazing techniques. The instances I've seen have involved >double-glazed sealed units. I wondered at first if solar heating >of the glass causes expansion of the panes which, being fixed in >a rectangular sealed unit, are forced to deform slightly. Light >could be scattered internally between the panes in some way. But >I have also seen the same type of effect in sunlight reflected >on the ceiling from the flat glass of my digital watch! No >double-glazing there, and no time for significant heating >either. Any optical physicists out there, Bruce....?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:47:51 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:33:34 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:25:08 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>Again, these arguements - these skeptical views - are from >>>scientists locked into a 'passing physics'. When general >>>relativity is merged with quantum theory sometime in the future, >>>I think the 'views' of scientists won't be the skeptical ones >>>you're embracing now. > >>Maybe so but I�m interested in the here-and-now. In that reality, >>star travel is not possible for many reasons. When I eliminate >>that possibility, the only explanation left is that these speedy >>vehicles and the occupants who are observed driving them are from >>our own solar system. >Sorry Edward, your 'here and >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/sep/m21-010.shtml >There are no reasons for believing that our present "science" is >in any way representative of the real universe. >If you disbelieve that - refer to: >http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/oldnews1.txt >and links. >And if you disbelieve that, well, go back to the flat earth >society where you (would seem to) belong. Hi Ray, Is the creature in the AA footage from another solar system? That's the question on my mind. I realize that isn't what you want to discuss and I thought I explained: once I believed that star travel was possible but after examining the evidence, I've changed my mind. Why is it so hard for you and others to understand that simple fact? There isn't any evidence that star travel is possible. The links you posted contained one "bravo" and a simple anomaly. That isn't evidence.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:09:00 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:51:22 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison >>From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:33:34 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >Many of you have jumped to the >conclusion that these machines are from other star systems, and >use these observations to buttress your beliefs. Other than >that, you have no evidence. Buttress my beliefs? I don't _have_ any beliefs yet as to what UFOs are. I've repeatedly stated, in various and many ways, that I keep my mind open to the many possibilities and that I don't believe the origin and nature of the UFO phenomenon has been determined yet. Did you miss the except I posted from my article in the symposium proceedings from the September 18, 2004 Dartmouth, N.S. event? I was - from day one - only supporting the notion that interstellar travel may be possible _not_ that UFOs are extraterrestrial vehicles. You very clearly have a horrendous inability to make distinctions and follow things clearly. >>Maybe so but I�m interested in the here-and-now. In that reality, >>star travel is not possible for many reasons. When I eliminate >>that possibility, the only explanation left is that these speedy >>vehicles and the occupants who are observed driving them are from >>our own solar system. >Sorry Edward, your 'here and now' is necessarily clinging only >to the ignorance of 'establishment' scientists and to >anthropomorphic bias - see: You're wasting your time, Ray... as am I. My first inclination was to withdraw from this discussion when Ed started talking about the upper velocity for living things being 11,400 mph and when he gave indication he didn't know that the earliest space flights had astronauts and cosmonauts orbiting Earth in excess of 17,000 mph. I should have listened to the side of me which was saying that trying to have a rational discussion with Ed was like trying to roll a cinder block across Schooner Pond in July. But it's not too late to listen to that inner voice so I'm going
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:54:58 -0300 Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:53:17 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison >From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >I�d like any discussion in which I participate limited to the >nature of the creature, drawings, the debris and the crash site >because these can be objectively studied. >I�d be happy to discuss the AA footage, the >drawings, or the crash site but you seem reluctant to do that. >I have done my homework and spent much more time >examining your ideas than you�ve spent looking at the evidence >for the AA. As far as I can tell, you still haven�t read my >crash site article, or viewed the cameraman�s drawings, or >looked at the AA footage, or read Dennis Murphy�s article on the >debris. I�m interested in the Alien Autopsy and how it pertains >to the questions, which seem to perplex those interested in UFO. >If you want to discuss this with me, then go for it. >As for your >faith based science, save your sermonizing for someone who >cares. It behooves me to make a distinction because apparently Ed has somehow managed to again blur and confuse two more unrelated things. At one point, Bill Hamilton posted regarding artificial gravitation/inertia fields and I replied to _his_ post, saying that this was a subject I have long been interested in. At that point, the title of the thread switched to UFOs, Gravity & Inertia. I am quite happy to keep discussing this subject with Bill, Ray, and anyone else on the list (with just a few exceptions). However, Ed keeps trying to drag it back to his beloved Earth-evolved AA monotreme of the AA video. Despite the fact that I am quite familiar with the list of materials relevant to the AA subject that Ed gives and assumes I'm not acquainted with (I'm just not convinced by them), Ed seems to be oblivious to the fact that it is _he_ who is in the wrong thread. If he wants to discuss UFOs, Gravity and Inertia then it is _he_ who should "go for it." Otherwise, it is _he_ who should "save the sermonizing for someone who cares" (to get into a debate about his AA monotremes from ancient Earth). I know I don't! This thread has long switched to the subject (theme) of UFOs, Gravity and Inertia. It's not about monotremes, crash sites, or the AA. So, if it's not Ed's cup of tea he should ignore it and try to get his favorite (and apparently only) area of interest up for discussion in a seperate thread, and spare us the hot- under-the-collar lectures about "faith based science" (his recent display of what he knows about even basic science would suggest he's not one to lecture anyone on science of any type). Bill, Ray, Bob, Kevin and I (and some others) were having a discussion about gravitation, inertia, higher dimensions, etc. and how they might apply to UFO propulsion and their ability to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Light Circles? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:18:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:02:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - Maccabee >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:07:43 +0100 >Subject: Re: Light Circles? >>From: Roy Hale <vinyl.lover10.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:20:13 +0100 >>Subject: Light Circles? >>A friend of mine sent me the following link: >>http://www.cdk.si/grz/sv_krogi_e.htm >>Has anyone else come across this kind of light phenomena? >Yes I have seen this in Scotland, last year and the year before, >in one memorable case reflected like a perfectly placed Saltire >the national flag, a St. Andrew's cross) on the turret of a >civic building. I could identify the reflecting window but it >was still very striking. >If it is true as claimed that the effect is increasingly >frequent (rather than just being more frequently noticed because >sites like the above are drawing attention to it) my guess is >that it must have something to do with some recent change in >glazing techniques. The instances I've seen have involved >double-glazed sealed units. I wondered at first if solar heating >of the glass causes expansion of the panes which, being fixed in >a rectangular sealed unit, are forced to deform slightly. Light >could be scattered internally between the panes in some way. But >I have also seen the same type of effect in sunlight reflected >on the ceiling from the flat glass of my digital watch! No >double-glazing there, and no time for significant heating >either. Any optical physicists out there, Bruce....? I first became aware of this "phenomenon" over a year ago. Wondered how long it would take to reach the UFO community.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 25 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:22:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:03:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Maccabee >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:42:18 +0100 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:59:15 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video <snip> >>>way. The explanation was a temperature inversion that was merely >>>reflecting part of the planes fuselage at a certain point. Being >>>a case supposedly from Project Bluebook maybe somebody knows. >>>about it. >>That is one of the least physically acceptable explanations I >>have heard. >>Optical reflections from temperature inversions are essentially >>mirages. Mirages occur when light ray paths are bent by a small >>fraction of degree. No mirage could create a reflection of part >>of an airplane that would be visible to pasengers in the plane. >>Such a reflection would require the light ray paths to be bent >>"backwards" or about 180 degrees, far far beyond the effects of >>any temperature inversion. But, of course, the Project UFO staff >>wouldn't know that. >>After all,any explanation is better than none (debunker rule >>#1), even if it makes no sense. >There was a case featured in a BBC documentary many years ago >involving a cine film taken through a cabin window by a >passenger on a commercial flight, showing a cigar with fins that >appeared to turn, foreshorten and vanish. That was reconstructed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Memory Without Klass From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:45:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:16:16 -0400 Subject: Memory Without Klass Ref: SDI #361... Memory Without Klass Klass, though dead, outdoes himself, and stokes corruption, still. He remains, of course, an evil scourge... a toxic... bitter pill. The sin this man commits still lives ... extends beyond the grave. But He remains a coward, Sir. Mere death shan't make him brave. Dead, he's a scoundrel-whisperer and a scourge... at present time. He is without all honor; his memory a crime. He poisons still our search for self, throws mud upon our grace, disrespects our history... and spits upon our face. It matters not a kindness, then, is paid because he's dead! He should, in fact, be vilified or cursed, indeed, instead. He was a social toxic spill, employed a poison pen, he was an undercover cur... a lurking cad, my friend! It matters not the 'good' Klass did, and there's a dearth of that... remember... Klass was just a panderer to 'Mainstreams' turned to scat. But good must have a shelf-life; it shall not stand alone; the good men do, evaporates... is buried with their bones. Evil - on the other hand, the lower road endured... results in where we find ourselves... still shoveling Phil's manure. This lasting filth transcends his death, is never really gone. His 'good' is immaterial. It's his 'bad' lives on and on. --- In the early 1980s, Stanton Friedman decided to immigrate to Canada from the US. Forgetting how prescient he may have been, I've heard Mr. Friedman say he did it primarily to take advantage of the superior health system. Philip Klass got wind of it, somehow, and took it upon himself to write the Canadian National Research Council a confidential letter - don't say it was ME, Oh Canada - to warn them about the undesirable element they were getting ready to allow into their country. In effect, Klass was trying to poison Mr. Friedman's Canadian well before he got there, restrict Mr. Friedman's movements, and egregiously intrude on Mr. Friedman's civil rights. The scurrilous and unrepentant _bastard_! In this just discovered letter, by Richard Dolan, Klass warned Canada with regard an "insidious threat" it faced to the security and stability of their country were they to allow Stanton Freidman, a "clutching, octopus-like snake oil salesman and uber-charlatan... a destabilizing UFO believer" (!) ... to immigrate. Philip Klass, this shadow whisperer, this unethical miscreant, this back-stabbing proxy murderer (McDonald!) would now be held up in gracious eulogy as an elder statesman of ufology, and even as an improver of it at the denouement, or even - at worst - just a real good example of a bad example... but respected, reader, as an honored opponent from an honored opposition... and _true_ in his way! No! NO! Not at this station. Philip Klass was ever only a hurdle to aggregate enlightenment, an authoritarian dirty-trickster, a right-wing nut case, a back- stabber, a Judas, a liar, a cheat and a consumptively corrosive scalawag. The best thing that could be done with the memory of Philip Klass is forget we ever had it, but as that is impossible, and also unethical, I'd allow a 'truth' where Philip Klass would not! He can best be used as an illustration of the above verse. That the good men do, is interred with their bones but, their evil lives on and on..... Do not _dare_ to defend Philip Klass to _me_...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:16:59 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:06:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:38:22 +0200 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:49:03 -1000 >>Subject: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>I wish to announce a forthcoming conference in Hawaii. The >>conference description follows below with the confirmed speakers >>so far but more to be confirmed in the next few weeks. The >>website is www.etworldpeace.com and the sponsor is the recently >>established Exopolitics Institute. >I looked up the conference website and found this: "The >conference will produce a 'Declaration' and an 'Action Plan' for >how humanity can cooperate with visiting extraterrestrial >civilizations to achieve world peace." I always find this amusing. Reminds me of Neville Chamberlain and his pact with Hitler. World peace can be obtained through absolute totalitarian control. I can imagine many variants of alien "contact" that would lead to this. >I have no problem with Dr Salla doing this work, more power to >him and his colleagues. My concern is that it will do absolutely >no good.if/when ETs decide to make themselves known formally, >then who is going to contact these specialists to ask what >'action plan' should be implemented? The 'visitors'? The >authorities? Maybe his real goal is that if he makes enough noise then
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:28:44 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:32:06 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Bourdais >From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:46:05 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up <snip> >How does the US government manage to have the same >control over crashing UFOs when such incidents can >happen, unpredictably, anywhere in the world, at any >time? Why do ETH believers always manage to avoid >giving a sensible answer to this obvious question? The idea that it would be impossible to control all UFO crahes, in any part of the world, is worth consideration. For me, after thinking about it, it does not sound all that impossible. The first reason is that, contrary to many rumors, alleged crashes have been probably in very limited numbers (and, yes, there have been many false rumors of crashes). The second reason is that there is no piece of land in the whole world which escapes military control, by one nation or another. And I don't see any government and military establishment willing to release such information. Any crash of an unknown craft will fall automatically under military control. The third reason is that there is not one country in this world with a totally free and independant press. They will keep quiet if they are asked to. If a mall paper or radio does not conform, it will soon be in serious trouble. Remember the call to KGFL radio in Roswell. So, it is quite plausible that a few authentic crashes were successfully controlled, and the information suppressed, or at least severely limited, and impaired by debunking operations. Still, what we see is a certain amount of independant informations and testimonies coming out about some alleged crashes. This is the case for Roswell and, recently, for Varginha in Brazil, in spite of obvious military cover-up. In short, for a UFO crash to be impossible to cover-up, it would have to happen right in the middle of a big city, I imagine. In any other place, it could probably be done.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 13:17:03 EDT Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:35:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Boone >Source: The Harvard Gazette - Cambridge, Massachusetts >http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/09.22/11-alien.html >23 September 2005 >Alien Abduction Claims Explained >Sleep paralysis, false memories involved >By William J. Cromie >Harvard News Office >Many of the people who believe they have been abducted by aliens >are bombarding Susan Clancy with hate e-mails and phone calls. >The Harvard researcher, who has spent five years listening to >the stories of some 50 abductees, has described her (and their) >experiences in a new book to be published in October. Uh oh, a Harvard book on UFOs. My 'Bat Bullsnot' alarm just went off. >Clancy, 36, likes most of these people. "They are definitely not >crazy," she says. But they do have "a tendency to fantasize and >to hold unusual beliefs and ideas. They believe not only in >alien abductions, but also in things like UFOs, ESP, astrology, >tarot, channeling, auras, and crystal therapy. They also have in >common a rash of disturbing experiences for which they are >seeking an explanation. For them, alien abduction is the best >fit." Gee, imagine people having a tendency to fantasize and hold unusual beliefs! Say it ain't so! Guess that's about 90% of the population in the U.S. who are religious and believe in angels, demons, God and spirits. Can't have that going on, they might actually be nice and charitable. >As you might guess, the people behind all that hate mail and the >phone calls don't buy that. They were there, she wasn't, they >insist. Wow, hate mail. She didn't get any 'love mail'? I wonder why? >In her book, "Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were >Kidnapped by Aliens," to be published by the Harvard University >Press, Clancy describes a typical reaction. "Can you believe the >nerve of that girl (Clancy)," one abductee says. "She comes to >me, like, 'Oh, I believe you've been abducted! Let me interview >you to learn more.... Oh, what really happened [she says] is >sleep paralysis.' Riiight! How the - - does she know? Did it >happen to her? There was something in the room that night! I was >spinning. I blacked out ... it was terrifying.... I wasn't >sleeping. I was taken. I was violated, ripped apart - literally, >figuratively, metaphorically, whatever you want to call it. Does >she know what that's like?" >Paralyzing dreams >Abduction stories are strikingly similar. Victims wake up and >find themselves paralyzed, unable to move or cry out for help. >They see flashing lights and hear buzzing sounds. Electric >sensations zing through their bodies, which may rise up in >levitation. Aliens with wrap-around eyes, gray or green skin, >lacking hair or noses, approach. The abductee's heart pounds >violently. There's lots of probing in the alien ship. >Instruments are inserted in their noses, navels, or other >orifices. It's painful. Sometimes sexual intercourse occurs. Gosh, last time I checked on the Larry King Show Budd Hopkins mentioned a large number of abductees who were wide awake during their abductions. If memory serves the most famous abduction case of Betty and Barney Hill, they were driving down the road. How many people and in this case two with a dog, drive down the road and both are sound asleep? >Then it's over, after seconds or minutes. The intruders vanish. >Victims are back in their own beds and can move again. >Clancy, Richard McNally, a professor of psychology at Harvard, >and other researchers tie such horrifying happenings to sleep >paralysis, a condition where the usual separation between sleep >and wakefulness gets out of synchronization. >When you dream, you are paralyzed. It's a natural adaptation to >prevent people from lashing out, jumping out of bed, walking >into doors or windows, and otherwise injuring themselves. But >it's possible to wake up while still paralyzed. >sensations," Clancy says. "They seem real but they're actually >the product of our imagination." One researcher describes it as >"dreaming with your eyes wide open." >Bizarre effects aside, sleep paralysis is as normal as hiccups. >It's not a sign of mental illness. About 25 percent of people >around the world have experienced it, and about 5 percent get >the whole show of sight, sound, tactile hallucinations, and >abduction. The only sleep paralysis going on here is with these quacks who seem to have been asleep at the wheel when they cooked up this nonsense. >Some of these people become completely absorbed by what happened >and seek an explanation of it. That can lead them into a grab >bag of different techniques well known to those with a rich >fantasy life and a distaste for scientific explanations. Where did they get these subjects to examine? Looks like they purposefully sought out these folks. How could so called top knotch researchers not realize they didn't have a cross section of people that a scientific study requires? >Such techniques include hypnosis, guided imagery, regression, >and relaxation therapies. "These all work in roughly the same >way," Clancy comments. "The therapist lulls the abductee into a >suggestive state, in which normal reality constraints are >relaxed, and then asks the person to vividly image things that >might have happened." Or might not have happened. Lulling people into a suggestive state is done on a regular basis. They're called television commercials. >Hypnosis, she says, "is a bad way to refresh your memories. Not >only that, it renders you susceptible to creating memories of >things that never happened, things that were suggested to you or >that you just imagined. If you (or your therapist) have pre- >existing beliefs or expectations, you're liable to recall >experiences that fit with these beliefs, rather than events that >actually happened." So, if I didn't read properly, Dr. Jacobs, Dr. Mack, Budd Hopkins and numerous other abductee researchers and abdcutees all needed something other than their own conscious recall to ferret out these abduction memories? I'm astonished to find out traumatic experiences can be buried into the unconscious mind. Do ya think being kidnapped by ghoulish looking creatures might cause that to happen? NOT! >False memories >Clancy knows all about false memories; they got her into >studying abductees in the first place. When she arrived at >Harvard to work on a Ph.D. in 1996, she was fascinated by the >political, legal, and social impacts of people who suddenly >recovered memories of childhood sexual abuse. Using standard >laboratory tests, she found that women who reported recovering >such memories were more likely to remember things that never >happened than women who always remembered such abuse. >That result, however, does not prove whether or not the woman >with recovered memories had actually been sexually abused. >Clancy then got the idea that she could get a better scientific >grip on false memories by studying people who recovered memories >of events that could not, in her mind, have possibly happened, >i.e., being abducted by aliens. >"Boy, was I na=EFve," she says in retrospect. "You can't disprove >alien abductions. All you can do is show that evidence is >insufficient to justify the belief, and try to understand why >people have those beliefs." Heck, I've interviewed more abductees in a three day period than these two have. Maybe I ought to call the countless cousins and friends and godchildren who have graduated Harvard and have them sponsor my own study. >On the way to doing this, she, McNally, and their colleagues >made some tantalizing discoveries. Measurements of sweating, >heart rate, and brain waves showed that those claiming to be >abductees show the same symptoms of post-traumatic stress >syndrome as combat veterans. The researchers did not, however, >conclude that the abductees had experienced combat-type trauma. >Rather, they believe, it is the emotional significance of a >memory, whether it is true or not, that causes sweaty hands and >rapid heartbeats. Golly, let me see, I'm kidnapped and experimented on by humanoids and bizarre looking creatures and I'm NOT supposed to exhibit states and manifestations of terror, confusion and dread. I'll bet if you asked people to recall their last rush hour traffic experience you'ld get just the same responses. Terror and trauma have a tendency to do that y'know. >Earlier this year, Clancy and McNally reported on another study >that found those who recalled childhood sexual abuse or >abduction by aliens experience higher rates of sleep paralysis >than those who do not make such claims. Strikingly, the first >group also scored high on underlying traits of fantasy >proneness, paranormal interests and experiences, and inability >to relate socially to others. Most Republicans exhibit the same tendencies. You don't see them being explained away as suffering from past sexual abuse. >Add to this mixture a recurring interest in aliens expressed in >books, in movies, and on television, as well as true discoveries >of more than 150 planets orbiting other stars in our galaxy. >Overwhelmed by this hurricane of sleep paralysis, false >memories, and fantasy, some people seek explanations and succor >in ghosts, reincarnations, and multiple personalities. Others >find that alien abductions provide answers and peace of mind, >says Clancy. How can they find peace of mind when your own studies say they exhibit so many fear manifestations.? It's either/or lady. >"It probably doesn't matter much to the abductees whether they >are right or wrong," she comments. "They simply feel better >because of what they believe." I have yet to meet someone who has undergone this type of experience who 'simply feel better'. If they felt better they wouldn't be seeking treatment! Did I miss something here? >Clancy is finished with space abduction studies. She now works >in Central America, teaching, continuing research on trauma and >memories, and writing a book on recovered memories of childhood >sexual abuse. You can bet that book will bring another high wave >of hate mail. I hope while she's in Central America a freakin' Chupacabra jumps up out of the bush and bites her in the ass. To think this nonsense came from Harvard University shows how sloppy academia has gotten. I can't list the number of kids coming out of college we have to literally re-train in basic English and history! It's an epidemic and now I know why. Parents are spending 100's of thousands of dollars for educations like this? We all need to take a more active role in watchdogging academia. This is a half-assed study and they should be ashamed to have even let it break the light of day. Abductions aren't important to the headshrinkers because you can't prescribe mandatory pharmaceuticals for it. If some fiend came up with an anti-abduction pill I bet you every psychiatrist
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 NASA's Griffin "Humans Will Colonize The Solar From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:03:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:38:50 -0400 Subject: NASA's Griffin "Humans Will Colonize The Solar The Washington Post has an interview with NASA Head Mike Griffin in which he discusses his views on space colonization: http://tinyurl.com/9kxaf A few quotes: "But the goal isn't just scientific exploration... it's also about extending the range of human habitat out from Earth into the solar system as we go forward in time. ...In the long run a single-planet species will not survive. We have ample evidence of that... [Species have] been wiped out in mass extinctions on an average of every 30 million years. ...We don't know of any other species anywhere, but while I cannot say that multiple- planet species will survive, I think I can prove to you from our own geologic record that single-planet species don't." "Now, you know, in the sense that a chicken is just an egg's way of laying another egg, one of our purposes is to survive and thrive and spread humankind. I think that's worth doing. There will be another mass-extinction event. If we humans want to survive for hundreds of thousands or millions of years, we must ultimately populate other planets. Now, today the technology is such that this is barely conceivable. We're in the infancy of it." "I'm talking about that one day, I don't know when that day is, but there will be more human beings who live off the Earth than on it. We may well have people living on the moon. We may have people living on the moons of Jupiter and other planets. We may have people making habitats on asteroids. We've got places that humans will go, not in our lifetime, but they will go there." "...generations of upper-level NASA managers have tried to characterize the shuttle as routine and safe, and it is not
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:18:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:40:10 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:09:00 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) >>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:33:34 +0100 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>Many of you have jumped to the >>conclusion that these machines are from other star systems, and >>use these observations to buttress your beliefs. Other than >>that, you have no evidence. >Buttress my beliefs? I don't _have_ any beliefs yet as to what >UFOs are. I've repeatedly stated, in various and many ways, that >I keep my mind open to the many possibilities and that I don't >believe the origin and nature of the UFO phenomenon has been >determined yet. Did you miss the except I posted from my article >in the symposium proceedings from the September 18, 2004 >Dartmouth, N.S. event? I was - from day one - only supporting >the notion that interstellar travel may be possible _not_ that >UFOs are extraterrestrial vehicles. You very clearly have a >horrendous inability to make distinctions and follow things >clearly. >>>Maybe so but I�m interested in the here-and-now. In that reality, >>>star travel is not possible for many reasons. When I eliminate >>>that possibility, the only explanation left is that these speedy >>>vehicles and the occupants who are observed driving them are from >>>our own solar system. >>Sorry Edward, your 'here and now' is necessarily clinging only >>to the ignorance of 'establishment' scientists and to >>anthropomorphic bias - see: >You're wasting your time, Ray... as am I. My first inclination >was to withdraw from this discussion when Ed started talking >about the upper velocity for living things being 11,400 mph and >when he gave indication he didn't know that the earliest space >flights had astronauts and cosmonauts orbiting Earth in excess >of 17,000 mph. I should have listened to the side of me which >was saying that trying to have a rational discussion with Ed was >like trying to roll a cinder block across Schooner Pond in July. >But it's not too late to listen to that inner voice so I'm going >to do so now. I'm adding Ed to the list of people whose e-mails >and posts I don't even open up anymore. Hi Eugene, It seems you're right. Here's earlier conclusion from Nigel Calder - "In any branch of science there are only two possibilities. There is either nothing left to discover, in which case, why work on it, or there are big discoveries yet to be made, in which case, what the scientists say now is likely to be false". [full quote at "badsci.txt" in Google] Ed's denial of possibilities is based on what? A few disgruntled academics clinging to outdated `rules' Cheers Ray D "Doubt comes in at the window when inquiry is denied at the door."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Villagers Claim ET Sighting From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:45:25 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:44:23 -0400 Subject: Villagers Claim ET Sighting Some interpreted web pages of the Thai Yellow cat-like Alien multiple sighting. Pages start at: http://www.manager.co.th Kind regards, Col http://www.colsweb.com ----- Villagers believe "alien" witnessed despite member of subdistrict administrative organization showing inflated rubber doll sketch By Manager Online September 14, 2005 10:17 am Tongmuan Pochailoet, a member of Pasak Subdistrict Administrative Organization, presented a sketch of his lost inflated rubber doll. Click on the picture to enlarge. (Picture) Sketch of the inflated rubber doll Chiang Rai--Residents of Huay Nam Rak Village were still certain that the entity they witnessed was an extra-terrestrial being. They claimed that features of Tongmuan�s rubber doll did not match the alien being seen. The villagers stated further that they saw the alien nodding, and the way it floated was different from a balloon floating. The member of Pasak Subdistrict Administrative Organization who showed the drawing of his inflated rubber doll claimed that initially he had been afraid that the villagers would have accused him of making up the story, so he had decided not to comment on the incident. The mayor requested that the village chief set up a camera, hoping to obtain some proof. (Picture) Villagers in Chiang San District, Chiang Rai Province, who attended their relatives� graduation ceremony in Chiang Mai, insisted that the inflated rubber doll was actually missing. Regarding the news on the residents of Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province, witnessing an unidentified entity believed to be an extra-terrestrial being, a member of Pasak Subdistrict Administrative Organization argued that the villages might have been seeing his lost inflated rubber doll that floated away from the front of his house. (Picture) One of the witnesses� drawings of the alien being seen at Huay Nam Rak Village, Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province Our reporter met with Tongmuan Pochailoet, a member of Pasak Subdistrict Administrative Organization at Doi Kam Village, Pasak Subdistrict, Chiang San District, Chiang Rai Province, about 6 kilometers to the east of Huay Nam Rak Village, Moo 5, Jan Jawa Subdistrict, Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province, where the alien being was witnessed. (Picture) One of the witnesses� drawings of the alien being seen at Huay Nam Rak Village, Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province Tongmuan said that on August 20, 2005 he made a journey to congratulate his relative at the graduation ceremony at Chiang Mai University Conference Center. Then he visited the Ancient Village Museum nearby. On the way, he found an inflated greenish orange rubber doll being about 1 meter tall in a roadside tree. He believed someone had lost the doll, so he decided to take it home. He described that the doll was 1 meter in height, and floated like a balloon. It had large head, large eyes, a nose, and a mouth. It did not have ears. Its arms and legs were small. A string was attached through the doll�s lower part. There were a lot of people who had not seen such doll. As the string was not obvious, some children even got very scared seeing the head moved by the wind. He tied the doll up at the front of his house, using it as a scarecrow, hoping its strange look could scare away ducks and chicken sneakily ate his rice and nuts. He noticed that at night the doll did not float. However, during the day when it was hot, the doll would float. He, then, had to tie it up. On August 29, 2005, at about 6:00 pm, the storm carried away the doll to the north. He could not follow it, and believed that he lost it. Later, he found out from the media that the residents of Huay Nam Rak Village, Moo 5, Jan Jawa Subdistrict which was 6 kilometers away to the west, reported their sighting of a yellowish orange entity that seemed similar to the particular doll with a large head and eyes. He thought the unidentified entity could be his missing doll. He had not spoken his opinion, fearing that the villagers who believed that they had witnessed an alien might have thought he had made up the story. However, as the news was widely spread, he decided to inform the media, and sketched his lost doll to compare to the alien sighted by the villagers. His drawing could be used as a way to find the doll to be used as proof. The reporter photographed the sketch, and took the photo to the Huay Nam Rak villagers who claimed the alien sighting. The witnesses insisted that the doll did not look like the alien they had seen, as the entity they saw had large head and eyes. It had ears, but no mouth. It did not have arms, but had small legs. However, Tongmuan�s missing doll had a mouth, a nose, and arms. Sawaeng Bunratchasak, 51, resident of Huay Nam Rak Village, Jan Jawa Subdistrict, Mae Jan District, said on the day of the incident during his ride passing the rice field at between 08:00 - 08:30 pm, he saw an entity that looked like a moving scarecrow. He stared at that entity for three minutes, and it stared back at him, nodding as if it was asking for help. He did not pay attention any longer. After that, some villagers claimed that they saw the entity floating up the sky and flew around, unlike the floating of a balloon. The night before the incident, a shooting star or "pee-poong-tai" had been witnessed in the same area. The villagers, therefore, believed that what they had seen was definitely not the doll claimed by Tongmuan, a member of Pasak Subdistrict Administrative Organization. Banjong Yang-yuen, Jan Jawa Subdistrict Municipality Mayor, Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province, said after the news reports on aliens a number of people showed their interest and doubt. Yesterday there were villagers riding on several pickup trucks visiting Mae Jan District Office due to the rumor that the alien had been caught, which was not true. The mayor ordered officials to fix the road near the area the alien had been witnessed, as each day there were a significant number of visitors resulting in the road being damaged and muddy. Also, he requested the village chief to set up a camera and undertake monitoring. If an entity that resembled an alien was witnessed, photographs were to be taken and used as evidence preventing confusion and for clarifying the incident. There were doubts whether the villagers had witnessed the doll missing from the near village or alien claimed. According to a myth, Huay Nam Rak Village, Jan Jawa Subdistrict, Mae Jan District, was 1,500-year "wiang nong lom", an ancient city suffering from earthquakes and collapsing into the area now called "Chiang San Lake" where old swords, household utensils and city walls were found. ----- "Alien sighting in Mae Jan" countered by villager claiming phantasm probably his missing inflated doll By Manager Online September 13, 2005 01:59 pm (Picture) Sketch of the alien being witnessed by villagers in Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province Click on the picture to enlarge. (Picture) Rice farm the villagers claimed they saw the extra- terrestrial being Chiang Rai- The alien witnessing at Mae Jan, Chiang Rai, was countered by a resident of Chiang San District. The man living 10 kilometers away from the area the entity was seen claimed that the incident might have something to do with the inflated doll he got when attending his relative�s graduation ceremony in Chiang Mai. He said it had been tied up at the front of his house before being blown away on August 29, 2005, only two days before the alien sighting claimed by the Mae Jan villagers. He believed that the particular inflated doll could be the actual cause of the alien sighting news, but said he did not want to go against the villagers. Today (September 13) at 11:00 am, Tongmuan Pochailoet, a resident of Doi Kam Village, Moo 10, Pasak Subdistrict, Chiang San District, Chiang Rai Province, being about 10 kilometers to the east of Huay Nam Rak Village, Moo 5, Jan Jawa Subdistrict, Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province (where the unidentified entity that resembled an extra-terrestrial being was witnessed), called in "Ruam Duay Chuay Kan" community radio station of Chiang Rai Province regarding the incident. He told the reporter that he thought the phantasm claimed an alien by the Huay Nam Rak villagers might be his missing inflated rubber doll that had been tied up at the front of his house. Tongmuan said that in the middle of August 2005 he made a journey to congratulate his relative at the graduation ceremony at Chiang Mai University Conference Center. Then he visited the Ancient Village Museum nearby. On the way, he found an inflated greenish orange rubber doll being about 1 meter tall in a roadside tree. He believed a child had lost the doll, so he decided to take it home. The doll was tied up with the front fence of his house in Chiang Rai since August 20, 2005 to be used as a scarecrow. He thought it could scare away ducks and chicken, as its neck, arms and legs moved, and it also floated due to the gas filled. On August 29, 2005, two days before the unidentified entity believed to be an extra-terrestrial being was witnessed by the Mae Jan villagers, the storm hitting the village carried away the doll. Tongmuan said the entity seen by the Huay Nam Rak villagers 10 kilometers away from where he lived might be his lost inflated rubber doll he got from Chiang Mai that had been tied up with the front fence of his house before being blown away. The strong wind might have carried the doll to the area where the villagers witnessed the entity. After early morning as the weather became hot, the gas inflated might have caused some reaction leading to the doll�s floating. That could be why the witnesses believed the entity was an alien. He did not take the missing of the particular doll seriously until several days later when the news of the Huay Nam Rak villagers� alien sighting in Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province, was widely spread. The news stirred the public interest so much that he decided to call for help from the community radio station and media to investigate the issue. Although he was not certain whether what the Huay Nam Rak villagers witnessed was his missing inflated rubber doll that had been tied up at the front of his house, he did not want the public to blindly believe in unproven thing. However, he did not intend to go against those villagers. ----- Public stirred by "alien sighting" rumor in Chiang Rai By Manager Online September 10, 2005 09:35 pm Click on the picture to enlarge. (Picture) Sketch of a strange-looking entity that resembled an alien being seen by villagers at a rice field in the village Chiang Rai- Mae Jan District residents were excited over the sight of the unidentified entity floating into the sky above the rice farm. They believed it was an extra-terrestrial being. Several groups of people have been visiting the seen. The district chief was still in doubt, as many of the villagers insisted they witnessed the entity but failed to identify what it was. Witnesses� drawings were the only evidence obtained. Police were not yet able to find any proof of such incident. In response to the news on the villagers� witnessing an alien, our reporter visited Huay Nam Rak Village, Moo 5, Jan Jawa Subdistrict, Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province on September 9, 2005. There have been over 100 visitors per day gathering along the rice field to discuss about the incident. (Picture) Villager showing the spot where alien witnessing was claimed The scene is a large wide green rice farm. The spot where the villagers claimed they had encountered the incident was in the rice field of Ti Kitkangbon, 69. A lot of villagers reported that on September 31, 2005, around 06:30 am, they saw an unidentified entity that looked like a doll, being 1 meter in height. Its body was light yellow. It had large eyes, large ears, and skinny legs. They had initially thought the entity was a scarecrow. (Picture) Group of villagers who claimed that they witnessed the unidentified object Around 10:00 am, on the same day, the unidentified entity floated into the sky, seemingly with some energy, and disappeared. The witnesses were shocked. They discussed about the incident in groups, believing the entity seen could be an alien like that in a Hollywood film. Unfortunately, the villagers did not have any camera to photograph the incident, so there was no evidence. They sketched the entity witnessed that looked like a cartoon character. Some of them said the entity looked like Casper the friendly ghost. (Picture) Group of villagers who claimed that they witnessed the unidentified object Sawaeng Bunratchasak, 51, resident of the particular village, said he was not drunk, and not using drugs when witnessing the incident. That morning he saw an unidentified identity that resembled a scarecrow. He did not take that seriously until Kamma told him that the entity had floated away and disappeared. He, then, became excited. Kamma Pinsaimoon, 56, said that at the beginning he thought the entity was a scarecrow used by Ti, the rice farm owner, to keep ducks away. As he observed further, he found out that the entity moved around, and then realized that it was not a scarecrow. He watched it until 10:30 am when the entity stretched, floated above an electricity pole into the sky, and disappeared like a soaring rocket. Buapan Lawichai witnessed the entity in the morning, around 06:30 am, on August 31, 2005. She said it had a large round head that looked like a light bulb, red eyes, and yellowish skin. It floated unsteadily above the rice in the felid, as if it had very little energy. Wisit Sittisombat, Mae Jan District chief, said after visiting the scene that it was not possible to identify the entity seen by the villagers. Due to the fact that many of the witnesses confirmed the sighting, he did not believe that the incident was fabricated truth. He was working on an investigation into the issue. Everyday there were a number of people and media visiting the sight. The entity witnessed still remained unidentified. Pol. Col. Kittisin Kongtaweepan, superintendent of Mae Jan District Police Station, Chiang Rai Province, said there was neither evidence for identifying the entity witnessed by the villagers, nor for concluding that it was an alien. According to the investigation, there was no trace of the rice being damaged and no other proof. Police officers were assigned to watch the scene due to a great number of visitors. ----- Numerous visitors look for proof of alien as villagers insisted no story fabricated By Manager Online September 12, 2005 10:15 am (Picture) Sketch of the entity claimed to be an alien witnessed by the villagers, which resembled a doll with a head, body, legs, two large red eyes, yellowish red skin, and no arms Click on the picture to enlarge. (Picture) Villagers looking at the sketch they made Chiang Rai - Numbers of visitors to Mae Jan District looked for proof of the alien at the scene. The villagers still believed that what they witnessed was a mysterious entity or an extra- terrestrial being. Government agencies equipped with advanced technology were urged to investigate into the issue, as a floating fire had been sighted to fall on the scene before the entity was witnessed. (Picture) Rice field where alien sighting was claimed In response to the news on the villagers� witnessing an alien at an area in Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province, our reporter visited Huay Nam Rak Village, Moo 5, Jan Jawa Subdistrict, Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province, to investigate the issue further. Groups of villagers were seen gathering in the village and the rice field discussing about the incident. After there were news reports through the media, the scene received significant numbers of visitors and those interested in mysteries. The rain did not seem to be their obstacle. (Picture) Groups of villagers gathering to discuss about the incident witnessed (Picture) Some visitors who were fully equipped for investigating The scene the alien sighting was claimed was in the rice farm of Ti Kitkangbon. It was a ridge through the paddy field. Go-ko 6 rice, which was 1 foot in height, was grown in the field along with lemongrass. There were no sign of unusual things, and no trace of the ground being stepped on by the entity. There were only footprints of visitors. Buapan Lawichai, residing at 206 Huay Nam Rak Village, Moo 5, Jan Jawa Subdistrict, Mae Jan District, Chiang Rai Province, said she witnessed a 1-meter tall entity which had large ears, large eyes, and golden skin. It was standing and moving in the middle of the rice farm for several hours in the morning of August 31, 2005. She said now at night people tried to avoid passing the scene, because they were afraid of being kidnapped by the alien like a movie. Kamma Pinsaimoon, 50, Huay Nam Rak resident, said he saw an object that looked like a child floating into the sky being 50 meters above the ground, without any sound made and wings. At the time of witnessing, the object turned black and disappeared in the sky. He was definitely certain that what he saw was not a bird, but still could not identify the object. Somkit Kriangkraimoon, 31, Huay Nam Rak resident, said on August 31, 2005 he saw a strange object that resembled a doll. It had a head, body, legs, but no arms. Its two eyes were red, and the skin was yellowish red, like the color of red bricks. It stood unsteadily in the middle of the field. He initially thought it was a scarecrow, so he stopped paying attention. However, as seeing that object moving slowly and unsteadily like it was walking on water surface, he realized that he had been witnessing some incident which he insisted was not fabricated truth. Kittikasem Ratanakosa, 30, an employee of a hotel in Chiang San District, said he himself did not witness the incident. After hearing about it, he visited the scene and hoped for scientific investigation, such as examining rocks or soil in the area. He said this was because he heard that a floating fire had been sighted to fall on the scene the night before the claimed incident of alien sighting. From his investigation, he did not find any evidence. Wisit Sittisombat, Mae Jan District chief, said his visit to the scene after the incident suggested that there was no evidence to consider the entity seen by the villagers as an alien. Indeed, it was not possible right now to identify the entity. He did not comment on the fact that Huay Nam Rak Village was visited by numerous people, as there was no point in stopping people from following their personal belief. Looking on the bright side, the villagers could be making money from selling food and drinks. Yongyut Tiyapairat, Minister of Natural Resources and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:00:26 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:45:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reason >From: Nigel Watson <valis23a.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained Hello Nigel >Why are ufologists so upset when they read about sleep paralysis >explanations and the like for abductions? Surely, we should be >pleased that we can eliminate these type of cases as evidence of >any ET or other extra-mundane origin. But don't you think it's important that any such explanation (whether involving sleep paralysis or anything else) should be: a) Viable to begin with (it should clearly and unambiguously predict what is observed, and not predict what is not observed); b) Testable against experimentation and future observation? >This should give us the >chance to study the cases that might indicate something beyond >human psychology and social pressures. Indeed. But we would need to be sure we were rejecting the right cases for the right reasons. I guess I don't understand why, when you advocate such an admirable degree of skepticism toward ufology, you are so unhappy that people should exercise a similar level of skepticism toward psychologists and their claims?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:13:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:48:18 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Hamilton >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:54:58 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>I�d like any discussion in which I participate limited to the >>nature of the creature, drawings, the debris and the crash site >>because these can be objectively studied. >>I�d be happy to discuss the AA footage, the >>drawings, or the crash site but you seem reluctant to do that. <snip> >This thread has long switched to the subject (theme) of UFOs, >Gravity and Inertia. It's not about monotremes, crash sites, or >the AA. So, if it's not Ed's cup of tea he should ignore it and >try to get his favorite (and apparently only) area of interest >up for discussion in a seperate thread, and spare us the hot- >under-the-collar lectures about "faith based science" (his >recent display of what he knows about even basic science would >suggest he's not one to lecture anyone on science of any type). >Bill, Ray, Bob, Kevin and I (and some others) were having a >discussion about gravitation, inertia, higher dimensions, etc. >and how they might apply to UFO propulsion and their ability to >cross interstellar space - not how they might affect Ed's >monotremes! Eugene, To continue discussion on the subject of gravity and inertia appeals to me because it may just be the next step in our technology to reach other worlds. I have found an analogous technology (IMO) that may serve as a model of how inertia may be reduced in the submarine environment. If we consider space a medium and that medium is a particulate composition of space itself, similar to aether, then we can model space propulsion systems based on a space-aether concept. The material of space is said to be filled with a froth of virtual particles. Perhaps, in addition, there are some lepton neutrino space-filling particles that constitute a hydrodynamic energy that exerts pressure on mass concentrations. If these particles, real or virtual normally flow through matter, but encounter increasing resistance with mass density, we could attribute the force of gravity to this virtual particle pressure. Likewise, such a pressure may be responsible for inertia. I quote from an article on supercavitation: �Lately there has been a resurgence of interest in a technology that allows naval weapons and vessels to travel submerged at hundreds of miles per hour. The fastest traditional undersea technologies are limited to a maximum velocity of about 80 miles per hour. The technology that allows some undersea vessels to travel faster than the speed of sound in water is called supercavitation. First explored in the 1940s, supercavitation exploits a loophole that allows underwater travel with minimal drag. For many years naval experts studied its parent field, cavitation, because of the problems that it brings about. Only recently did researchers consider supercavitation as a way to build faster submarines and torpedoes. To understand supercavitation, first cavitation must be understood. When a fluid moves rapidly around a body, the pressure in the flow drops. This pressure reduction over the surface of the body is the same effect that generates lift on airplane wings and gives sailboats the ability to move on the water's surface with only the wind to propel them. As the velocity increases and the pressure continues to drop, a point is reached at which the pressure in the flow equals the vapor pressure of water, whereupon the fluid undergoes a phase change and becomes a gas: water vapor. Under certain circumstances, especially at sharp edges, the flow can include attached cavities of approximately constant pressure filled with water vapor and air trailing behind. This is called natural cavitation. Normally, cavitation is a condition to be avoided in fluid flow systems, because it can distort water flow to rob pumps, turbines, hydrofoils, and propellers of operational efficiency. It can also lead to violent shock waves (from rapid bubble collapse), which cause pitting and erosion of metal surfaces. In supercavitation, the small gas bubbles produced by cavitation expand and combine to form one large, stable, and predictable bubble around the supercavitating object. The bubble is longer than the object, so only the leading edge of the object actually contacts liquid water. The rest of the object is surrounded by low-pressure water vapor, significantly lowering the drag on the supercavitating object. A supercavity can also form around a specially designed projectile. The key is creating a zone of low pressure around the entire object by carefully shaping the nose and firing the projectile at a sufficiently high velocity. At high velocity water flows off the edge of the nose with a speed and angle that prevent it from wrapping around the surface of the projectile, producing a low-pressure bubble around the object. With an appropriate nose shape and a speed over 110 miles per hour, the entire projectile may reside in a vapor cavity. Some estimates indicate that a supercavitating projectile, using rocket propulsion, could travel at speeds in excess of 230 miles per hour underwater. Now this is only a model for the possibility of a supercavitated spacecraft. If we take the analogous elements here and apply them to a UFO moving through our atmosphere at high speed where the UFO may be generating a supercavity in the surrounding air, then the reduced drag would account for much that is observed in ufo aerodynamics if, by producing such a supercavity, it is not only
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:29:15 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:50:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Hall >From: Nigel Watson <VALIS23A.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:37:25 +0000 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >From: Nigel Watson <valis23a.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>>Source: The Harvard Gazette - Cambridge, Massachusetts >>>http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2005/09.22/11-alien.html >>>23 September 2005 >>>Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>>Sleep paralysis, false memories involved >>>By William J. Cromie >>>Harvard News Office >>>"It probably doesn't matter much to the abductees whether they >>>are right or wrong," she comments. "They simply feel better >>>because of what they believe." >>Why does reading this article make me want to throw up? >>Maybe I'll get PTSD from reading it. >>By the way, Clancy ever hear of non-sleep related abduction >>reports? >>Note that her whole research analysis is based on the assumption >>that there are no true sleep-related abductions. >>She doesn't dare say anything about non-sleep related abductions >>because if even one of these was an actual occurrence, then she >>couldn't be certain that there was no sleep-related abduction. >Why are ufologists so upset when they read about sleep paralysis >explanations and the like for abductions? Surely, we should be >pleased that we can eliminate these type of cases as evidence of >any ET or other extra-mundane origin. This should give us the >chance to study the cases that might indicate something beyond >human psychology and social pressures. >Aren't non-sleep related cases those of the so-called >contactees? What are the best non-sleep related cases if they do >not involve contactees? Nigel, As one ufologist, I am upset with Clancy because she totally misrepresents that which she purports to explain. The quote above that abductees "feel better" for believing what they do is utter nonsense, 180 degrees from the truth. I have worked directly with dozens of them and they are confused, frightened, upset, traumatized (95%). Clancy is simply spouting Skeptibunker Creed that CSICOP types assume as 'truth' without investigation. Perhaps something like 5% of abductees embrace New Age beliefs and probably did before their experiences (the alleged aliens being equal opportunity abductors), and so they badly want to believe in benign intervention and aliens who want to bring peace to our planet and that sort of drivel. Clancy may have gotten a false sample, especially if she derived them from Mack's work because he was New-Age prone and inclined to attract abductees of similar beliefs. A very interesting study would be the belief systems of abductees before and after the perceived events. The notion that sleep paralysis explains abduction reports, as several people already have pointed out, is refuted by the elementary data of the reports. But the Clancy's of the world go
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:19:18 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:52:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:06:07 +0100 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:38:22 +0200 >>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:49:03 -1000 >>>Subject: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>>Aloha List, >>>I wish to announce a forthcoming conference in Hawaii. The >>>conference description follows below with the confirmed speakers >>>so far but more to be confirmed in the next few weeks. The >>>website is www.etworldpeace.com and the sponsor is the recently >>>established Exopolitics Institute. >>I looked up the conference website and found this: "The >>conference will produce a 'Declaration' and an 'Action Plan' for >>how humanity can cooperate with visiting extraterrestrial >>civilizations to achieve world peace." >>I have no problem with Dr Salla doing this work, more power to >>him and his colleagues. My concern is that it will do absolutely >>no good... if/when ETs decide to make themselves known formally, >>then who is going to contract these specialists to ask what >>'action plan' should be implemented? The 'visitors'? The >>authorities? >Why should we expect the supposed aliens to be interested in >promoting peace on our planet? For all we know the ETs are even >more warlike than us, and are keen to encourage interplanetary >war. >Dr Salla assumes (from his whistleblowers I guess) that these >visitors are peace loving. Poor fellow, he may well get a severe >shock if & when they land en masse. There is no sense in war as you know, I do not think an advanced ET civilization would wage war they would rather enslave us and that would probably occur without any resistance from our side . They could be infiltrating our society in a very silent but effective way, probably on a biological level, when this infiltration is complete there will be no resistance. Unfortunately humans are highly suggestible animals that's why
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 03:22:01 -1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:54:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:06:07 +0100 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 11:38:22 +0200 >>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:49:03 -1000 >>>Subject: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>>I wish to announce a forthcoming conference in Hawaii. The >>>conference description follows below with the confirmed speakers >>>so far but more to be confirmed in the next few weeks. The >>>website is www.etworldpeace.com and the sponsor is the recently >>>established Exopolitics Institute. >>I looked up the conference website and found this: "The >>conference will produce a 'Declaration' and an 'Action Plan' for >>how humanity can cooperate with visiting extraterrestrial >>civilizations to achieve world peace." >>I have no problem with Dr Salla doing this work, more power to >>him and his colleagues. My concern is that it will do absolutely >>no good... if/when ETs decide to make themselves known formally, >>then who is going to contract these specialists to ask what >>'action plan' should be implemented? The 'visitors'? The >>authorities? >Why should we expect the supposed aliens to be interested in >promoting peace on our planet? For all we know the ETs are even >more warlike than us, and are keen to encourage interplanetary >war. >Dr Salla assumes (from his whistleblowers I guess) that these >visitors are peace loving. Poor fellow, he may well get a severe >shock if & when they land en masse. The whistlebllower data on ETs interested in preventing the destructive use of nuclear weapons is quite extensive. For example, Robert Salas, Robert Jacobs and Col Dedrickson from the Disclosure Project speak about incidents where ETs deactivate nuclear weapons, destroy missiles in flight, etc. Also, the advent of the UFO phenomenon in 1945 after the use of nuclear weapons and their proximity to facilities such as Roswell Army Air Field which had the world's first atomic weapons capacity suggests a very clear ET nuclear relationship. Also, I believe there is persuasive data that President Eisenhower met with a delegation of visiting ETs on February 20, 1954. I've presented the whistleblower data for this at: http://www.exopolitics.org/Study-Paper-8.htm This alleged meeting took place nine days before the Bravo Test of the Hydrogen Bomb on March 1. Was this coincidence or the main reason for the meeting? Was the relationship between ET visitations and nuclear weapons because the ETS are peaceloving or because the use of nuclear weapons interrupted the propulsion/navigation systems of ETs traveling in the vicinity or visiting the Earth? If the Earth is on a major trade route for ETs who travel through space/time/dimensions, using wormholes, etc., then it can be inferred they are interested in preventing the use of nuclear weapons since these damage their routes. This would be analogous to creating large potholes in a major interstate highway thereby disrupting interstate commerce, travel, etc. So it may be self- interest rather than purely compassion towards humanity that motivates their interest in preventing the use and proliferation of nuclear weapons. I don't hold to the thesis that all the ETs visiting Earth are peaceloving, the data doesn't support that. The majority of ET civilizations, however, do appear to be interested in preventing the use of nuclear weapons and in raising human consciousness through a gradual process of UFO sightings, contacts, etc. It appears that such a motivation is not something the controllers of ET related information want the general public to be aware of.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 26 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:41:59 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:09:00 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >You're wasting your time, Ray... as am I. My first inclination >was to withdraw from this discussion when Ed started talking >about the upper velocity for living things being 11,400 mph and >when he gave indication he didn't know that the earliest space >flights had astronauts and cosmonauts orbiting Earth in excess >of 17,000 mph. I should have listened to the side of me which >was saying that trying to have a rational discussion with Ed was >like trying to roll a cinder block across Schooner Pond in July. Eugene, I didn't notice any "rational discussion". You lectured me, I listened, responded and apologized for my ignorance, then you lectured some more. You still haven't answered my question: How fast can molecules travel without losing their identity? My "speed limit for life" mistake was an attempt to arrive at a common understanding. If you know the answer, why not just tell me, and this time skip the lecture; a simple explanation will do. But since you'll not be reading this, then perhaps another List member will answer for you. Maybe I'm not being clear. It's my understanding that light evolved into particles, and particles created atoms, and then atoms created molecules, and molecules created us. If speed reverses this process, then at some point molecules lose their identity and become atoms again. What is that limit? I understood David's explanation of the plane and the billiard balls but at what speed will the plane, billiard balls, and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Memory Without Klass - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:40:56 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:49:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Ledger >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:45:51 -0500 >Subject: Memory Without Klass >Ref: SDI #361... >Memory Without Klass >Klass, though dead, outdoes himself, and stokes corruption, still. He remains, of course, an evil scourge... a toxic... bitter pill. The sin this man commits still lives ... extends beyond the grave. But He remains a coward, Sir. Mere death shan't make him brave. <snip> >In the early 1980s, Stanton Friedman decided to immigrate to >Canada from the US. Forgetting how prescient he may have been, >I've heard Mr. Friedman say he did it primarily to take >advantage of the superior health system. >Philip Klass got wind of it, somehow, and took it upon himself >to write the Canadian National Research Council a confidential >letter - don't say it was ME, Oh Canada - to warn them about the >undesirable element they were getting ready to allow into their >country. In effect, Klass was trying to poison Mr. Friedman's >Canadian well before he got there, restrict Mr. Friedman's >movements, and egregiously intrude on Mr. Friedman's civil >rights. The scurrilous and unrepentant _bastard_! >In this just discovered letter, by Richard Dolan, Klass warned >Canada with regard an "insidious threat" it faced to the >security and stability of their country were they to allow >Stanton Freidman, a "clutching, octopus-like snake oil salesman >and uber-charlatan... a destabilizing UFO believer" (!) ... to >immigrate. <snip> Hi Al, Is there an online source for this letter? I'm guessing Stan would appreciate a copy of it, or has a copy already.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:51:56 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:54:58 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >It behooves me to make a distinction because apparently Ed has >somehow managed to again blur and confuse two more unrelated >things. >At one point, Bill Hamilton posted regarding artificial >gravitation/inertia fields and I replied to _his_ post, saying >that this was a subject I have long been interested in. At that >point, the title of the thread switched to UFOs, Gravity & >Inertia. I am quite happy to keep discussing this subject with >Bill, Ray, and anyone else on the list (with just a few >exceptions). However, Ed keeps trying to drag it back to his >beloved Earth-evolved AA monotreme of the AA video. Despite the >fact that I am quite familiar with the list of materials >relevant to the AA subject that Ed gives and assumes I'm not >acquainted with (I'm just not convinced by them), Ed seems to be >oblivious to the fact that it is _he_ who is in the wrong >thread. If he wants to discuss UFOs, Gravity and Inertia then it >is _he_ who should "go for it." Otherwise, it is _he_ who should >"save the sermonizing for someone who cares" (to get into a >debate about his AA monotremes from ancient Earth). I know I >don't! Hi Eugene, That's OK with me, but I just can't imagine why you wouldn't be interested. What if I'm correct? Wouldn't a crash site add to our knowledge? If the AA creature is a real flesh and blood critter, then wouldn't studying her help our understanding of the common alien predicament we all face? Isn't a crash site considered hard evidence, and preferable to airy theorizing. >This thread has long switched to the subject (theme) of UFOs, >Gravity and Inertia. It's not about monotremes, crash sites, or >the AA. So, if it's not Ed's cup of tea he should ignore it and >try to get his favorite (and apparently only) area of interest >up for discussion in a seperate thread, and spare us the hot- >under-the-collar lectures about "faith based science" (his >recent display of what he knows about even basic science would >suggest he's not one to lecture anyone on science of any type). I'm not a scientist, just a poor investigative journalist. There's much that I don't know but I attempt to learn, and being wrong sometimes is part of that process. >Bill, Ray, Bob, Kevin and I (and some others) were having a >discussion about gravitation, inertia, higher dimensions, etc. >and how they might apply to UFO propulsion and their ability to >cross interstellar space That's not the way I see it. You were showing off your knowledge
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Light Circles? - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:26 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:53:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - Shough >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:18:38 -0400 >Subject: Re: Light Circles? >>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:07:43 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Light Circles? >>>From: Roy Hale <vinyl.lover10.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:20:13 +0100 >>>Subject: Light Circles? >>>A friend of mine sent me the following link: >>>http://www.cdk.si/grz/sv_krogi_e.htm >>>Has anyone else come across this kind of light phenomena? >>Yes I have seen this in Scotland, last year and the year before, >>in one memorable case reflected like a perfectly placed Saltire >>the national flag, a St. Andrew's cross) on the turret of a >>civic building. I could identify the reflecting window but it >>was still very striking. >>If it is true as claimed that the effect is increasingly >>frequent (rather than just being more frequently noticed because >>sites like the above are drawing attention to it) my guess is >>that it must have something to do with some recent change in >>glazing techniques. The instances I've seen have involved >>double-glazed sealed units. I wondered at first if solar heating >>of the glass causes expansion of the panes which, being fixed in >>a rectangular sealed unit, are forced to deform slightly. Light >>could be scattered internally between the panes in some way. But >>I have also seen the same type of effect in sunlight reflected >>on the ceiling from the flat glass of my digital watch! No >>double-glazing there, and no time for significant heating >>either. Any optical physicists out there, Bruce....? >I first became aware of this "phenomenon" over a year ago. >Wondered how long it would take to reach the UFO community. >Note the association with miracles and maitreya. Do a google on >maitreya and you will see why I am suspicious. Without proof to >the contrary I would suspect some digital trickery. >At any rate, connection with UFOs is slim to zero.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Secrecy News -- 09/26/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:43:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:55:39 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/26/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 92 September 26, 2005 ** WAS KATRINA A CATASTROPHIC EVENT? ** RESTORING CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AFTER KATRINA ** CHALLENGE TO 1953 STATE SECRETS CASE BLOCKED Was Katrina A Catastrophic Event? On August 30, Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff designated Hurricane Katrina "an incident of national significance," and thereby activated the National Response Plan (NRP). But did the Secretary also designate the Hurricane as a "catastrophic event," a special sub-category of emergency situations that entails the expedited deployment of emergency response capabilities? The answer to this question is mysteriously hard to find. Catastrophic events permit "an accelerated, proactive national response" and may include "mobilizing and deploying assets before they are requested via normal NRP protocols," according to the Catastrophic Incident Annex to the National Response Plan. "A catastrophic event is any natural or manmade incident, including terrorism, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the population, infrastructure, environment, economy, national morale, and/or government functions." "All catastrophic events are Incidents of National Significance." However, not all Incidents of National Significance are "catastrophic events." So did the Secretary designate Katrina a catastrophic event, or not? DHS won't say. "When asked if Chertoff exercised his catastrophic incident authority in response to Hurricane Katrina, DHS spokesman Russ Knocke said it was too early to make a determination," wrote Chris Strohm in Government Executive Daily Briefing on September 8 in perhaps the only news story to address the issue. See: http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0905/090805c1.htm The answer to this question would help clarify whether the faulty government response to Katrina was a failure of planning or of personnel, or some combination of the two. Meanwhile, President Bush appeared to suggest that his Department of Homeland Security was incapable of coping with a catastrophic natural disaster and that increased military authority was needed. "Is there a circumstance in which the Department of Defense becomes the lead agency [for emergency response]?" the President asked at a September 25 press briefing. "Clearly, in the case of a terrorist attack, that would be the case, but is there a natural disaster which -- of a certain size that would then enable the Defense Department to become the lead agency in coordinating and leading the response effort. That's going to be a very important consideration for Congress to think about." Some related issues are discussed by the Congressional Research Service in "Hurricane Katrina: DOD Disaster Response," September 19, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33095.pdf See also "The Use of Federal Troops for Disaster Assistance: Legal Issues," CRS, September 16, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22266.pdf RESTORING CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AFTER KATRINA A Department of Homeland Security memo presents guidelines to assist in restoring critical infrastructure systems that were damaged or destroyed by Hurricane Katrina, and to help secure such systems against attack. "The loss of major critical infrastructures and associated control systems in the Gulf Coast Region has created cascading impacts across multiple critical infrastructure sectors," the memo states. "During the aftermath of this natural disaster, threat agents with malicious intent may attempt to exploit new vulnerabilities or take advantage of existing vulnerabilities as significant focus and resources are directed to those in need. It is important for the control systems community to be cognizant of threats that may attempt to take advantage of personnel and systems likely to be more vulnerable to both physical and cyber attacks as a result of Hurricane Katrina." See "Hurricane Katrina Control System Assistance," DHS United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team -- Control Systems Security Center, September 16, 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/katrina-csa.pdf CHALLENGE TO 1953 STATE SECRETS CASE BLOCKED A federal appeals court last week upheld the dismissal of a lawsuit alleging that the government fraudulently invoked the state secrets privilege in a case that went to the Supreme Court fifty years ago. The landmark 1953 Supreme Court ruling in Reynolds v. United States ratified the state secrets privilege as a way for the government to prevent discovery by a plaintiff in litigation. A half century after that case was decided, the surviving plaintiffs and their families obtained the now declassified records that had been withheld from them under the state secrets privilege. To their surprise, they saw nothing sensitive in the records to justify the use of the privilege, and they returned to court alleging fraud. But the appeals court wasn't buying it. "The concept of fraud upon the court challenges the very principle upon which our judicial system is based: the finality of a judgment," the ruling stated. A layman might have supposed that "the very principle upon which our judicial system is based" is justice, or fairness to the parties, or an accurate record. But a layman would be wrong. "The presumption against the reopening of a case that has gone through the appellate process all the way to the United States Supreme Court and reached final judgment must be not just a high hurdle to climb but a steep cliff-face to scale," the ruling declared, foreshadowing its rejection of the plaintiffs' claims. A copy of the September 22 ruling is here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/herring0905.pdf See also "3rd Circuit Finds No 'Fraud on the Courts' in 50-Year- Old Case" by Shannon P. Duffy, The Legal Intelligencer, September 26: http://www.law.com/ The application of the state secrets privilege to block a patent infringement case involving an underwater fiber optic coupler was neatly reported in "Secrecy Power Sinks Patent Case" by Kevin Poulsen in Wired News, September 20: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,68894,00.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Rogerson From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:06:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:58:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Rogerson >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:57:36 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:59:15 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:03:51 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >>>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >><snip> >>>I don't know which 'Bluebook' case it was but I remember an old >>>episode of "Project UFO" in which a passenger on a plane saw an >>>object very similar to the one shown in the video. When they >>>took a plane up and flew the same course in the same weather >>>conditions the object again appeared then disappeared the same >>>way. The explanation was a temperature inversion that was merely >>>reflecting part of the planes fuselage at a certain point. Being >>>a case supposedly from Project Bluebook maybe somebody knows >>>about it. >>That is one of the least physically acceptable explanations I >>have heard. >>Optical reflections from temperature inversions are essentially >>mirages. Mirages occur when light ray paths are bent by a small >>fraction of degree. No mirage could create a reflection of part >>of an airplane that would be visible to pasengers in the plane. >>Such a reflection would require the light ray paths to be bent >>"backwards" or about 180 degrees, far far beyond the effects of >>any temperature inversion. But, of course, the Project UFO staff >>wouldn't know that. >>After all,any explanation is better than none (debunker rule >>#1), even if it makes no sense. >You have to remember that I was trying to recall something that >I saw on TV almost 30 years ago. I've slept since then. :-) >I could have been wrong about the temperature inversion. I >really don't remember anything except that in the episode they >were able to duplicate the event. Whether it actually happened >or not, I don't know. >I was hoping that someone on the List might recall the actual >Blue Book Case so it could be looked up to see what BB's >explanation really was. You know, some of their explanations >might actually be correct. >I tried searching the Bluebook Archives site but couldn't find >anything. Terry The film you are thinking of is almost certainly that taken by Mrs Joan Oldfield while flying between Manchester and Southampton in March 1966. It shows a sort of stubby cigar with wings which changed shape and disappeared. The film was shown on the BBC programme Tomorrow's World, which duplicated the flight and showed that the object was a reflection, in the window, of the plane's tail unit. The case is discussed in Chapter 11 of Robert Chapman's book Unidentified Flying Objects (also published as UFO) first published by Arthur Barker in 1969. Most editions reproduced 3 still photos from the film in the photo section.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Toronto Symposium Report #01 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:11:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:11:47 -0400 Subject: Toronto Symposium Report #01 Source: The Varsity On-Line The University of Toronto's Student Newspaper http://tinyurl.com/9lwz6 Monday, September 26, 2005 The Truth Is Out There By Chris Damdar Imagine a corrupt government using alien technology to control citizens with "thought-controlling video games" and "nanochips below the skin"; developing "alien particle beams" and "robosoldiers" to conquer rival nations; allowing aliens to "steal people from their beds" for experimentation. And most importantly, imagine this government covers up its alien contact with lies, conspiracies, and red tape. Don't you have a right to know? You sure do, according to speakers at a symposium held at Convocation Hall on Sunday morning, and run by the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON), a US-based UFO watchgroup. Ufologist Richard Dolan reviewed the UFO cover-up from the 40s to the present citing documents implicating the CIA, FBI, and US military. "We have documents that do prove these objects are real and have been engaged. We have pretty good reason to believe things have been recovered and studied," he said. Dolan claimed to know where the government obtained the money or 'black budget' to develop alien technologies. "The real black budget is illegal money....It's easy to see connections with drug trafficking like heroin and cocaine." Nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman attacked the "lies" of the US government, including the claim that unexplained sightings could probably be attributed to conventional technology. "Let's get real. Do you think aliens from other stars know about technology we don't know? No? What incredible arrogance we have," stated Friedman. Like Dolan, Friedman showed many documents from state officials purporting to demonstrate the government's involvement with covering up UFO's. "Everyone expects the government to lie," he said. The symposium's featured speaker was the Honourable Paul Hellyer, former Canadian minister of national security under Lester Pearson. Hellyer described his first contact with UFOs as he sat around a campfire with friends and his late wife. "A bright light appeared in the sky and appeared to zig and zag across the horizon. Some thought it was an airplane," he said. Recently, the book The Day After Roswell by Colonel Phillip Corso "sparked my interest," said Hellyer. "Commercial airline pilots, military pilots, police, public officers all swear they had encountered UFOs. Why would they say that if they didn't believe what they were saying?" Hellyer claimed America is working to deploy alien weapons. "The US has developed the aliens' own weapons to the point they can be used against the aliens from space....What crimes have they committed? They may have abducted a few people but they haven't killed anyone." In an interview with The Varsity, Hellyer offered advice to U of T students: "Do your own research. And don't necessarily accept what governments tell you. Think things through." The symposium's last speaker was Stephen G. Bassett, a conspiracy theorist who described the present day as "Secret Empire." "The Secret Empire is the sum total of the entire intelligence of the USA including intelligence agencies and underground facilities....They've read Orwell too many times and take it too seriously." Bassett implored Canadians to get the truth about aliens. "I call on the citizens of Canada to ask their government that it bring this information out to you, the public... I ask the Canadian government to break ranks with the US government on this issue," he said. During the lunch break, the audience standing outside Con Hall were treated to a UFO sighting. Four round UFOs were seemingly swerving and swooping in the fog above University College. "They aren't moving like balloons," said a man. "I think they're putting on a show for us," said another spectator. "They know
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:28:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:18:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 03:22:01 -1000 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace <snip> >I don't hold to the thesis that all the ETs visiting Earth are >peaceloving, the data doesn't support that. The majority of ET >civilizations, however, do appear to be interested in preventing >the use of nuclear weapons and in raising human consciousness >through a gradual process of UFO sightings, contacts, etc. It >appears that such a motivation is not something the controllers >of ET related information want the general public to be aware >of. Dr. Salla: Maybe ET's did contact Earth governments which accounts for the success with current Nuclear Proliferation Treaties. But to indicate that nuclear explosions (snipped from your post) would be akin to pot-holes in space, disrupting ET space travel, discounts or neglects to note that explosions of various kinds from our own Sun present space anomalies considerably greater than any A-Bomb test here on Earth. Also, the lull in nuclear testing hasn't stemmed the tide(s) of UFOs visiting us -- and still sighted everyday somewhere by someone. Moreover, if nuclear bombs were the threat to ETs as you surmise, they sure are taking a long time in getting world governments worked up about them... 60 years and counting. If aliens are visiting, an arguable point despite the circumstantial evidence, their mission has been inscrutable to everyone, even the governments you think are in the know. One other point: if Eisenhower met with an alien delegation in 1954 as you state, it sure didn't seem to disrupt his golf game(s).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:37:44 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:19:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 03:22:01 -1000 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >Was the relationship between ET visitations and nuclear weapons >because the ETS are peaceloving or because the use of nuclear >weapons interrupted the propulsion/navigation systems of ETs >traveling in the vicinity or visiting the Earth? If the Earth is >on a major trade route for ETs who travel through >space/time/dimensions, using wormholes, etc., then it can be >inferred they are interested in preventing the use of nuclear >weapons since these damage their routes. This would be analogous >to creating large potholes in a major interstate highway thereby >disrupting interstate commerce, travel, etc. So it may be self- >interest rather than purely compassion towards humanity that >motivates their interest in preventing the use and proliferation >of nuclear weapons. >I don't hold to the thesis that all the ETs visiting Earth are >peaceloving, the data doesn't support that. The majority of ET >civilizations, however, do appear to be interested in preventing >the use of nuclear weapons and in raising human consciousness >through a gradual process of UFO sightings, contacts, etc. A majority of ET races? You took a poll? Even if they were interested in preventing the use of nuclear weapons, the motivations can range from very good to very bad reasons. You stated the motivation could be to stop Earth being a cosmic pothole, but the other reason could be to stop the Earth "herd" from getting wiped out. A nuclear war could to that, thus they would not be able to perform their nefarious experiments/commerce. Also, you seem to base your rationale on "known" ET races (as if even that can be proven), but what about all the "unknown" (and unseen) ET (or other) races that there are no reports on but whom are so clever that no one knows they are buzzing around doing whatever evils they want. How many of them are "out there" visiting Earth? Kind of creates a paranoia eh? Better that we spend our resources building defenses against them than extending diplomatic relations. In many ways, the old
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Toronto Symposium Report To Air From: Victor Viggiani <zland.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:43:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:25:09 -0400 Subject: Toronto Symposium Report To Air Hello Everyone! The Canadian Discovery Channel's Daily Planet will air a report on the Canadian UFO Symposium today, Tuesday Sept 27 at 7 pm, repeating at 11 pm and 9 am and 12:00pm tomorrow.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Bueche From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:31:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Bueche >From: Nigel Watson <valis23a.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >Why are ufologists so upset when they read about sleep paralysis >explanations and the like for abductions? Surely, we should be >pleased that we can eliminate these type of cases as evidence of >any ET or other extra-mundane origin. List, I was not planning on posting my letter to the editor of the Harvard Gazette here since it is just a rewrite of my earlier letter to ScienceNews, but as they may be useful for for Nigel, here they both are. Pardon the redundancy. Dear Editor of ScienceNews: The sustained interactive quality of alien encounters does not seem to match the transitory quality of the hallucinations experienced during sleep paralysis, as Harvard psychologist Richard J. McNally suggests ("Night of the Crusher", July 9). Rather, it sounds more like the kind of long-duration meditative states that some spiritual practitioners intentionally enter into. Like prayer or meditation, alien encounters are not limited to times when one is falling into or out of sleep, but one must grant that they often occur at tranquil times (such as while driving). This similarity touches on the fundamental (and historically theological) question of whether experiences are ipso facto an illusion if they are only perceived while in an altered state of consciousness. The concept that aliens may only be seen while one is in an altered state of consciousness has garnered some respect, not only among those who believe such episodes are illusions, but also among those who believe they may be real interactions. The late Harvard psychiatrist Dr. John Mack, who is remembered as a proponent of the reality of alien contact, noted that "the mind that has visions is very close to the mind that can have these experiences," and wrote extensively about how alien encounters may be more akin to spiritual experiences than physical ones - while still being real. Swiss psychologist Remo F. Roth, Ph.D, says "in my opinion the UFO abduction phenomenon is very real. It is however only perceptible in an altered state of the ego. ...In the moment of the abduction the victims are forced into an altered consciousness. ...The victims are abducted into a world that is neither exclusively physical nor psychic." Research by Prof. Chris French at Goldsmiths College, University of London, into the psychological profiles of people who experience alien encounters is confirming that many have personality traits associated with spiritual disciples, such as a propensity towards absorption and disassociation. Again this points to the possibility that alien encounters are more akin to "visions of the spirit" than "visits from the saucers". When French concluded his study, he stated that alien encounters may most plausibly be the illusion of sleep paralysis that McNally has suggested. But French respectfully noted that "[there are] other explanations of the psychological profile... The first is that a particular type of psychological profile is required if one is to be psychologically open to experiencing genuine paranormal and related phenomena such as alien encounters, if indeed such phenomena genuinely exist." A patient consideration of the less plausible theories serves the exploration of alien encounters (or indeed, any subject) far better than a rush to proclamation. Will Bueche And the abbreviated rewrite for the Gazette: Dear Editor of Harvard Gazette: The possibility that "aliens" may only be perceived while one is in an altered state of consciousness has long been considered, not only by those who believe such episodes are illusions, such as Susan Clancy ("Alien abduction claims explained", Sept 22), but also by those who believe these may be real interactions. That opposing sides can share and debate this possibility is due to the endurance of the fundamental - and historically theological - question of whether experiences are ipso facto an illusion if they are only perceived while in an altered state of consciousness. Earlier this year, when Prof. Chris French of Goldsmiths College, University of London, announced that the psychological profiles of people who experience alien encounters include traits associated with spiritual disciples, such as a propensity towards absorption and disassociation, the implication was clear: alien encounters may be more akin to "visions of the spirit" than "visits from the saucers". Some see the kinship to spirituality as reason to dismiss, others see it as confirmation that spiritual concepts of an expanded world are likely true. Which side is right? The question may very well be eternal. But as Clancy explores this philosophically rich subject, I hope she will take a cue from Prof. French and display the kind of intellectual honesty that led him, an avowed skeptic, to note that even if alien encounters appear to be within the minds of people, researchers must consider "other explanations" including the possibility that "a particular type of psychological profile [may be] required if one is to be psychologically open to experiencing genuine paranormal and related phenomena such as alien encounters, if indeed such phenomena genuinely exist." Will Bueche
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:48:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:33:27 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shough >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:13:23 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:54:58 -0300 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >Eugene, >To continue discussion on the subject of gravity and inertia >appeals to me because it may just be the next step in our >technology to reach other worlds. >I have found an analogous technology (IMO) that may serve as a >model of how inertia may be reduced in the submarine >environment. >If we consider space a medium and that medium is a particulate >composition of space itself, similar to aether, then we can >model space propulsion systems based on a space-aether concept. >The material of space is said to be filled with a froth of >virtual particles. Perhaps, in addition, there are some lepton >neutrino space-filling particles that constitute a hydrodynamic >energy that exerts pressure on mass concentrations. If these >particles, real or virtual normally flow through matter, but >encounter increasing resistance with mass density, we could >attribute the force of gravity to this virtual particle >pressure. Likewise, such a pressure may be responsible for >inertia. <snip> Hello Bill If the resistance is proportional to mass do you need to explain what mass is first? I think you give a reasonable description of the way the hypothetical Higgs boson is supposed to confer mass on particles. But I suspect the issue of inertia is more difficult. There was also an old theory of gravity based on filling space with a field of particles that exert pressure from every direction, and you could explain inverse square "attraction" in a crude way because the angular area of objects that shadow one another from the particle flow would vary as the inverse square of separation. I don't know if anyone seriously worked this up but I've seen it mentioned. Feynman discusses it somewhere. This is similar to your proposal. Some properties of mass could be produced by your particle- resistance. But one main problem with an idea like this would be explaining why Newton's First Law is valid. Why do objects keep moving? Inertia isn't just about them sitting still of course, but about them needing a reason not to just keep on going. Motion ought to be damped out. I'm not convinced that the Higgs boson scheme can really explain inertia either, because it doesn't come out of a theory of quantum gravity - which doesn't exist yet. It doesn't escape the need for generalised background space coordinates and can only get these from general relativity. But GR itself doesn't explain inertia; it describes how the spacetime metric responds locally to the presence of mass but I personally think some way is needed of implementing Mach's principle non-locally to explain inertia. Intriguing stuff though.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:08:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:40:23 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Rudiak >From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:25:30 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:33:34 +0100 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) >>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>Maybe so but I'm interested in the here-and-now. In that reality, >>>star travel is not possible for many reasons. When I eliminate >>>that possibility, the only explanation left is that these speedy >>>vehicles and the occupants who are observed driving them are from >>>our own solar system. >Is the creature in the AA footage from another solar system? >That's the question on my mind. I realize that isn't what you >want to discuss and I thought I explained: once I believed that >star travel was possible but after examining the evidence, I've >changed my mind. Why is it so hard for you and others to >understand that simple fact? There isn't any evidence that star >travel is possible. That's simply your opinion Ed, not a statement of fact. You could just as well argue that there isn't any evidence that star travel is impossible. There is certainly no law of physics that forbids interstellar travel. Various engineering scenarios well-within the scope of present-day understanding of physical law would permit it, such as solar-powered lasers beaming energy to a probe with a large sail (one of the NASA schemes currently under investigation). Such systems would be expensive and would call for advances in material technology and robotics, but seem technically feasible within the next 100 to 200 years. The point is that interstellar travel, even without speculative faster-than-light proposals like warp drives, wormholes, or quantum teleportation, is theoretically possible at sublight speeds using old-fashioned, brute force propulsion technologies. >The links you posted contained one "bravo" >and a simple anomaly. That isn't evidence. Neither is the alien autopsy for your point of view. Even if you _assume_ the film genuine and being to be real and nonhuman, deducing that it was originally an earthly humanoid marsupial from an ancient civilization is wild-assed speculation at best. >The lion is in the village and instead of sharpening your spear
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:20:45 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:41:48 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Boone >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:28:44 +0200 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:46:05 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up ><snip> >>How does the US government manage to have the same >>control over crashing UFOs when such incidents can >>happen, unpredictably, anywhere in the world, at any >>time? Why do ETH believers always manage to avoid >>giving a sensible answer to this obvious question? >The idea that it would be impossible to control all UFO crahes, >in any part of the world, is worth consideration. For me, after >thinking about it, it does not sound all that impossible. The >first reason is that, contrary to many rumors, alleged crashes >have been probably in very limited numbers (and, yes, there have >been many false rumors of crashes). The second reason is that >there is no piece of land in the whole world which escapes >military control, by one nation or another. And I don't see any >government and military establishment willing to release such >information. Any crash of an unknown craft will fall >automatically under military control. The third reason is that >there is not one country in this world with a totally free and >independant press. They will keep quiet if they are asked to. If >a mall paper or radio does not conform, it will soon be in >serious trouble. Remember the call to KGFL radio in Roswell. >So, it is quite plausible that a few authentic crashes were >successfully controlled, and the information suppressed, or at >least severely limited, and impaired by debunking operations. >Still, what we see is a certain amount of independant >informations and testimonies coming out about some alleged >crashes. This is the case for Roswell and, recently, for >Varginha in Brazil, in spite of obvious military cover-up. In >short, for a UFO crash to be impossible to cover-up, it would >have to happen right in the middle of a big city, I imagine. In >any other place, it could probably be done. >In the case of Roswell, some testimonies have become fragile and >had to be discarded. But who knows why for sure? There are >several possibilities, from simple liers to real witnesses being >influenced to alter their testimony, for instance. Brilliant! That's what I'm talking about. Since the advent of the UFO age the U.S. alone has only had 11 Presidents. Britain if I recall has only had 2 monarchs during that period. China one general party and Russia we know had one major control party until present President Putin. France and Italy have wobbled with several and the other wester European powers had or still have the same monarchs or one removed. The smaller countries are usually run by the same cast of characters except Mexico which only recently changed major controllers. These groups work hand in hand and put on a facade of either combativeness or allegiance. If some new advanced technology and shift in paradigm occurred that if let known to the public jeopardized this control, I for one would believe they'd shut up about it and use that knowledge to barter with. Those who would lose the most are of course the U.S. the U.K., Switzerland. All the big banking countries. Not to forget the Saudis. China and Russia would only lose because that flow of hush money would cease and nationalism would collapse. They would have to be honest. Perish the thought! Let's stretch the imagination if need be and say that the U.S. not only acquired advanced technology for weapons, energy, medicine but also for mind control. If we look, the mind control technologies and mass uses of them occurred not too long after the Roswell Incident. The birth of the CIA for one and their well documented sinister abuses of their own personelle to start. Drugs and misinformation and disinformation as well as pain induced coercion are the staples of mind control. We know historically there was no shortage of these hideous techniques. Perhaps technologies we've yet to dream of have been used and are being used. Dope is our worst enemy. Let us presume the most lethal and far reaching lethal technologies have been developed to ensure that those who spoke out were silenced. I've been saying for years the big break in the UFO story will come from the exposure of the high end mind control and behavior modification technologies and procedures we the public are only now becoming aware of. It may not necessarily take such high end subversive techniques. A simple order of extortion/black mail, or just a gun to a guy's head is enough. The threat of loss of wealth, position, power and public ridicule are weapons as well. Ridicule is our worst enemy in this pursuit of knowledge. People have an innate fear of being outted by a group. Ridicule can make a man take his own life or the lives of others. As long as this behavior exists the world will spiral in a downward trend. The opposition has a great tool that nature provides free of charge. However, on our side is love and admiration. Anger and a sense of justice. When backed against the wall these emotions will stomp a mudhole in the fear of ridicule. Case-in-point the recent backlash at the glaring inadequicies in Gulf Coast hurricane disasters. Soon as people got pissed off things changed. The entire global schematic and game plan has changed because Mother Nature decided to remind us of what's really important. The internet is changing the battlefield and it's not a question of 'if' but 'when' the next big UFO story will break. When it does it will expose not only the inept focus of the press but the longstanding methodically organized disinformation of the powers that be. Whether one of the explanations of the UFO phenom is the ETH or if some long elusive past evolved civilization or some inter- dimensional thing, we'll all find out we could have been living better and more fruitful lives were it not for the psychotic control of a small few. Sure, there are a ton of UFO secrets out in the open, but that came from diligent researchers and brave citizens. It came from compassion and concern of those who know the truth and have been putting their lives on the line, many of you for decades have made this thankless sacrifice. There are a ton of cans of worms that get dug up while researching UFOlogy and the powers that be know it. They don't know what the heck any one of us knows and hasn't put out there yet. The best physical evidence is indeed hidden or not. They don't know what's out there and don't know what we may have stashed away for a rainy day just waiting to spring upon the world and change history forever. With the growth of the comunications and recording techonologies it's only a matter of time before discover to disclosure timeline gets shortened and the game is over. The suspense ain't killin' me, it's invigorating.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Allan From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:15:47 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:43:53 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Allan >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:28:44 +0200 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:46:05 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>How does the US government manage to have the same >>control over crashing UFOs when such incidents can >>happen, unpredictably, anywhere in the world, at any >>time? Why do ETH believers always manage to avoid >>giving a sensible answer to this obvious question? >The idea that it would be impossible to control all UFO crahes, >in any part of the world, is worth consideration. For me, after >thinking about it, it does not sound all that impossible. The >first reason is that, contrary to many rumors, alleged crashes >have been probably in very limited numbers (and, yes, there have >been many false rumors of crashes). The second reason is that >there is no piece of land in the whole world which escapes >military control, by one nation or another. And I don't see any >government and military establishment willing to release such >information. Any crash of an unknown craft will fall >automatically under military control. The third reason is that >there is not one country in this world with a totally free and >independant press. They will keep quiet if they are asked to. If >a mall paper or radio does not conform, it will soon be in >serious trouble. Remember the call to KGFL radio in Roswell. >So, it is quite plausible that a few authentic crashes were >successfully controlled, and the information suppressed, or at >least severely limited, and impaired by debunking operations. >Still, what we see is a certain amount of independant >informations and testimonies coming out about some alleged >crashes. This is the case for Roswell and, recently, for >Varginha in Brazil, in spite of obvious military cover-up. In >short, for a UFO crash to be impossible to cover-up, it would >have to happen right in the middle of a big city, I imagine. In >any other place, it could probably be done. >In the case of Roswell, some testimonies have become fragile and >had to be discarded. But who knows why for sure? There are >several possibilities, from simple liers to real witnesses being >influenced to alter their testimony, for instance. But you are assuming a lot here. You take it for granted that those countries where the crashes occurred would want to cover up the fact. You assume that the military in each of these countries would get there first, before anyone else, and demand silence on the part of the civilian population, the press and other media. This is simply going along with Stan Friedman and his nonsensical 'cosmic Watergate'. Why on earth should such a vital scientific discovery as this be covered up at all? Can you name any other discovery that would be covered up in this way (and for six decades at that)? Since we can take it that the US could not and would not manage to despatch their forces to every nation on earth in the event of a UFO crash, you now try to persuade us that these countries could, or would, do it themselves, and silence everyone in the process. I repeat my point that any nation would regard it as a great opportunity to be the first to announce the arrival of extraterrestrial beings on earth. Think of the tremendous boost to national prestige. But no, the conspiracists still insist that every nation would try to conceal the fact.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Re: Memory Without Klass - Allan From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:48:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:45:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Allan >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:45:51 -0500 >Subject: Memory Without Klass >Ref: SDI #361... >Memory Without Klass >In the early 1980s, Stanton Friedman decided to immigrate to >Canada from the US. Forgetting how prescient he may have been, >I've heard Mr. Friedman say he did it primarily to take >advantage of the superior health system. >Philip Klass got wind of it, somehow, and took it upon himself >to write the Canadian National Research Council a confidential >letter - don't say it was ME, Oh Canada - to warn them about >the undesirable element they were getting ready to allow into >their country. In effect, Klass was trying to poison Mr. >Friedman's Canadian well before he got there, restrict Mr. >Friedman's movements, and egregiously intrude on Mr. Friedman's >civil rights. The scurrilous and unrepentant _bastard_! >In this just discovered letter, by Richard Dolan, Klass warned >Canada with regard an "insidious threat" it faced to the >security and stability of their country were they to allow >Stanton Freidman, a "clutching, octopus-like snake oil salesman >and uber-charlatan... a destabilizing UFO believer" (!) ... to >immigrate. How has this letter just surfaced, and exactly how did Richard Dolan get hold of it? I must say I find it very hard to believe any such letter was ever written. One question: What does Stan Friedman say about it? It will not surprise me in the least if fake letters and other documents implicating Klass in all sorts of underhand tactics
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 27 Larry Hatch Regular Email Back Up From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:02:21 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:47:06 -0400 Subject: Larry Hatch Regular Email Back Up Hello all: A quick note... My regular email is back up (larryhatch.nul) so please resume using that address instead of the temporary Hotmail I was forced into. They will probably cancel my Hotmail for inactivity before too long. I will check that once in a long while until it goes away. If any messages directly to me got bounced, please simply resend
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Light Circles? - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:49:10 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:44:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - Rimmer >From: Eleanor White <Eeleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:34:56 -0400 >Subject: Re: Light Circles? >How about some sort of polarizing effect from all the chemicals >which are being dumped in the atmosphere, since roughly 1998? What are these chemicals? Why are they being dumped? Do you have any actual evidence for this claim? Or is this just paranoid rambling?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:59:13 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:45:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Rimmer >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:29:15 +0000 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >Clancy may have gotten a false sample, especially if she derived >them from Mack's work because he was New-Age prone and inclined >to attract abductees of similar beliefs. A very interesting >study would be the belief systems of abductees before and after >the perceived events. Ah! The wrong kind of abductee! If abductees who have positive responses to their experience are regarded as 'false samples' and excluded, it naturally leads to the conclusion that the abduction experience produces a negative response. QED. > >The notion that sleep paralysis explains abduction reports, as >several people already have pointed out, is refuted by the >elementary data of the reports. But the Clancy's of the world go >merrily along force-fitting their theories and ignoring the >data. But sleep paralysis does explain _some_ abduction reports, in the same way that *some* UFO reports can be explained by mundane factors, and research can concentrate on the unexplained cases. But there seems to be the general assumption that there are *no*
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:07:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:47:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:19:18 +0200 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 19:06:07 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace Conference >>Why should we expect the supposed aliens to be interested in >>promoting peace on our planet? For all we know the ETs are even >>more warlike than us, and are keen to encourage interplanetary >>war. >>Dr Salla assumes (from his whistleblowers I guess) that these >>visitors are peace loving. Poor fellow, he may well get a severe >>shock if & when they land en masse. >There is no sense in war as you know, I do not think an advanced >ET civilization would wage war they would rather enslave us and >that would probably occur without any resistance from our side . This is a very culturally specific attitude. East and West Coast liberals (and for UK listers Independent and Guardian readers) may assume that there is no sense in war, but it is certainly not an attitude that is shared by many, maybe even most, people on this planet, and we are certainly in no position to say what the views of alien races may be. This seems to be a version of the Cargo Cult - surely any society advanced enough to have flying machines/interstellar travel (delete as applicable) would be too advanced to need to resort to violence.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:28:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:50:57 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Hatch >From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:36:40 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:09:00 -0300 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >Maybe I'm not being clear. It's my understanding that light >evolved into particles, and particles created atoms, and then >atoms created molecules, and molecules created us. If speed >reverses this process, then at some point molecules lose their >identity and become atoms again. What is that limit? I >understood David's explanation of the plane and the billiard >balls but at what speed will the plane, billiard balls, and >players lose lose their identity? Is ther a limit, or is this a >stupid question? Ed: Some understanding of classical physics and relativity is in order. I'll try to simplify things as I understand them. After years of college physics studies, NOwhere have I ever heard of light evolving into particles, then into atoms etc. in those terms. There no 'speed limit' except that of c, the speed of light. Imagine two molecules, water molecules say, speeding past Earth, and (important!) using Earth as a frame of reference. With that as a benchmark, lets say the 2 molecules are near the speed of light. (Never mind how they gained the speed.) To an observer on Earth, they would have gained mass, and flattened out "front to back" (i.e. in their direction of travel). Traveling side by side however, each molecule would look perfectly normal to the other. Earth would look abnormal. At no point do they 'devolve' into simpler particles, and there is no reason they should. Within _their_ frame of reference, there IS no absolute speed... only speeds relative to some arbitrary benchmark. You could even argue that the two molecules are standing still while the whole solar system is whizzing past, and not be entirely wrong. That was one perplexing result of Einstein's work, one which the general public still has trouble understanding. Countless experiments have verified Einstein at every turn. Molecules do not 'come apart' at any special speed, unless they smash into something... one another perhaps, or the walls of some container or obstacle. Same goes for atoms. Once again, it is RELATIVE speeds (collisions) accounting for the energy to rip molecules etc. apart. It looks to me like you are thinking in terms of Classical Physics (not a bad start BTW), where everything in the universe had an absolute speed, direction, and position, all clocked by a universal invariant time. All that went out the window about a century ago, much to the dismay of the classical physicists back then. All this and much more is well known and available to anyone willing to learn some physics. If you Google for the "speeds at which molecules come apart", other than collisions, you will probably have a hard time unless you stumble into the inevitable crackpot sites. There are plenty of those.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:38:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 06:57:13 -0400 Subject: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO Hello again to everyone out there, This may or may not have been discussed already and I don't have time to peruse all the back mail to find out. However, I just saw a program on the science channel which verifies the UFO reported seen by Armstrong and Aldrin on their Apollo 11 flight to the moon as legitimate and unsolved. (at least to the date of the filming.) If you are interested, click below to read about it. If you haven't seen it, you may be able to still catch the program. I've seen it played twice on the Science Channel (Cable #170 in the NY area) http://www.cohenufo.org/websitedoc.htm#aldrinarmstrongufo Jim Oberg, are you aware of this?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Aspects Of Chinese UFO Research From: Bill Chalker <bill_c.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:51:05 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:01:25 -0400 Subject: Aspects Of Chinese UFO Research Aspects of Chinese UFO research addressed in my September trip This link gives a preliminary outline of my trip to China which focused on Chinese UFO research: http://theozfiles.blogspot.com/2005/09/chinese-ufology-revealed.html The text portions are as follows: The 2005 "World UFO Conference" held in Dalian, a thriving and modern port city in north east China, provided me with a good opportunity to witness various manifestations of Chinese ufology. While the conference was interesting and entertaining for a whole lot of reasons, mixed in with themes of "lost in translation", I was drawn to the event to help further develop my understanding of UFO research activity in China. That objective was largely achieved outside of the formal conference activities when I was able to do a number of interviews with key researchers and identities, with the help of very helpful volunteer university student interpreters, particularly Sadie and Marina. They helped me in my interviews with Professor Sun Shili (one of the most recognised spokesmen for Chinese UFO research), Zhang Jingping (an active and energetic Beijing based UFO researcher), Professor Ling Huan Ma (a very helpful Beijing based "UFO learner"), and Professor Chen Gongfu (principal researcher of the Meng Zhao Guo case, regarded as China's most famous alien abduction case). My research and enquiries in China during September 2005 allowed me to cover many aspects of the Chinese UFO experience, including: * the development of modern ufology in China * the Meng Zhao Guo case * the strange abduction "healing" experience of Cao Gong - Zhang Jingping and his associate Harvey Zhao enable me to interview Mr. Cao in Beijing * other experiences including an abduction involving two young Chinese "super psychics" and an engineer * a possible UFO photo from Dalian during the conference (a prosaic explanation for this I suspect) My visit to China and all the new Chinese friends I made certainly enriched my understanding of the Chinese UFO research scene and my apreciation of Chinese culture and history. My enjoyment of the culture and history was also wonderfully assisted by my guides and interpreters in Beijing and Xi'an - Irene and Cici. A UFO sighting in central China? - Flying out of Xi'an during the early evening of September 13th on an Air China flight bound for Beijing afforded me a puzzling aerial sighting which I photographed. I'm still not sure if what I saw was an unusual cloud or a more interesting anomaly. I err to the former possibility but what seemed a rather sharp angular elongated rectangular "object" had me intrigued and glued to the plane porthole for about 10 minutes. (Photos: Sun Shili and Bill Chalker at the Dalian UFO conference; the official opening to the conference held at a Dalian shopping complex conference venue. Images copyright: Bill Chalker)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Pandora's Box From: Joe Faccenda uforth.nul Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:56:09 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:04:40 -0400 Subject: Pandora's Box In assessing the advances in ufology, or perhaps the lack of it, there does come a point where a reassessment of what exactly Ufologist's goals are? Our Governments to open up its ufo files? A UFO to land on the White House lawn? Or is it just a a desire to know that you were right all along, that ufos are real, and aliens are visiting this world. Each and every question is so loaded with responsibility I sometimes wonder if we in the UFO community have thought through the consequences. We want the truth, fine, but can we handle the truth? Can we comprehend the enormity of the changes such a revelation would bring? are we ready to open the box? In 1938 there was a radio broadcast in the USA of HG Wells classic 'War the Worlds' Orson Wells who staged this play made it so convincing that people fled their homes in panic. In many ways this event put in place the 'mind set' of many of the decisions that the US Government took when the Roswell event took place. Perhaps fearful of another panic is was safer to clamp the lid on it. There is no Government on this planet that would admit that it had ufo proof, it would be political suicide. The futile attempts of ufologist over the years to extract this information shown a naivety on our part, as to what exactly our comprehension of Government is, and our own comprehension of what we are trying to achieve. Disclosure would trigger a chain event that would run right across the pillars, feeble as they are, of our society. Government collapse, world-wide financial collapse, and perhaps world-wide religious upheaval. Are we ready for just such an event? Then let us assume we weathered the storm what then? The alien ship is parked on the lawn, the worlds TV stations are all tuned in, a grey steps out what do we do? Offer some beads in exchange for an antigravity drive? Tell them they can use our DNA? Offer our best art, music, Brooklyn bridge? It seems to me anything we have has been plundered by aliens long ago. The sad facts are that we are a primitive race, eager to kill one another in the name of religion, political ideology, and just plain greed. We have nothing to offer but fragmented societies, spurious aspirations, and are hell bent on destroying our environment. We are a contained species, and we will be contained until we can demonstrate the principles of harmony and understanding. We can all 'talk the talk', it is time we learned to 'walk the walk' Regards,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Japanese A-Bomb? From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:22:00 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:07:15 -0400 Subject: Japanese A-Bomb? List, Don't shoot the mesenger. In keeping with some of the oddities that have shown up recently on this list re Japan's secret war activites, I recently watched a History Channel [Canada] program of an American History Channel Documentary with an interesting story; that being that Japan had been very close to having their own A-bomb and exploded a non-transportable device on a barge in a bay in North Korea at about the same time period that the U.S. was bombing Nagasaki. Here's the URL for History USA and the DVD. http://tinyurl.com/bvgkw During the program they showed a newspaper story by a Stars and Stripes Reporter claiming the same thing. Any of the older listers ever come across this story?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Light Circles? - Hale From: Roy Hale <roy.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:18:26 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:08:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - Hale >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:26 +0100 >Subject: Re: Light Circles? >Agreed the relevance to UFOs seems small, but since Roy raised >the question I have to stand by my statement above: I have >personally seen this, with a witness, exactly as depicted in the >many photos at Roy's link, and it definitely is not a matter of >digital trickery. Hi Martin, Just to point out, I am not promoting this as UFO sightings, but just intriguing light phenomena - it may be totally natural! I was sent another link, with clearer pictures:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Memory Without Klass - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:52:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:11:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Lehmberg >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:40:56 -0300 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:45:51 -0500 >>Subject: Memory Without Klass >>Ref: SDI #361... >>Memory Without Klass <snip> >>In this just discovered letter, by Richard Dolan, Klass warned >>Canada with regard an "insidious threat" it faced to the >>security and stability of their country were they to allow >>Stanton Freidman, a "clutching, octopus-like snake oil salesman >>and uber-charlatan... a destabilizing UFO believer" (!) ... to >>immigrate. ><snip> >Hi Al, >Is there an online source for this letter? I'm guessing Stan >would appreciate a copy of it, or has a copy already. Not that I know of as yet, Don. This was produced as a result of Richard Dolan's highly regarded testimony about same. Additionally - this came in from other sources. >THANK YOU, Mr. Lehmberg, for your expose of the >meanness/negativity of Herr Klassh__e. Among the dastardly >deeds he'd committed back in the eighties was his telephonic >brow-beating of officials at the University of Nebraska's >(Lincoln) adult-education center when he got word that a >MUFON-related conference was to be held there. He berated >the attenders as communistic/subversive, and implored the >officials to cancel the conference. As true >academic-freedom champions, the officials chose to defy his >attack. >Who knows how much other such underhandedness he managed to >orchestrate against UFO researchers/witnesses? May he be >reincarnated upon some other (barren) planet besides >Earth.... -- O-ver and O-ut Also this, which Doc Maccabee can verify or not: >One time Klass tried to (indirectly) sic Bruce Maccabee's >employer on him for (allegedly) using some office >supplies/duty time to pursue his UFO research. I suppose >that the ever-angelic Klass never stooped to such temptation >during his career at Aviation "Leak" magazine. >It became Phil's standard tactic to demand the name of a >given UFOlogist's employer (probably so as to >intimidate/extort the researcher whenever he/she succeeds in >a UFO-related project or other positive endeavor). Such >repetitive snakehood proved that there's more than one kind >of Reptilian in the universe. >Normally, I'm against book-burning; but if someone were to >ask me for a match to ignite a bonfire of Phil's books, I'd >offer my entire book of matches! I offered: "...Or use them to start a real fire... I don't think I could use them for toilet paper, myself (too close), but they might stand in as an emergency sanitary napkin for a circus fat lady's especially heavy day... I'll ask around... Thanks for the note..."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Toronto Symposium Report #01 - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:03:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:12:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Toronto Symposium Report #01 - Lehmberg UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >Source: The Varsity On-Line > The University of Toronto's Student Newspaper >http://tinyurl.com/9lwz6 >Monday, September 26, 2005 >The Truth Is Out There >By Chris Damdar Seems to me our Mr. Damdar had to stir in all the derisions dripping from his treatment on his own. Verily, no discredit came from the participants themselves as reported by Damdar... he _had_ to add it himself. I'm betting he was high on Kool-aid when he wrote it. Feh.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:10:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:16:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reynolds >From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:19:25 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained <snip> >The late Harvard psychiatrist Dr. John Mack, who is remembered >as a proponent of the reality of alien contact, noted that "the >mind that has visions is very close to the mind that can have >these experiences," and wrote extensively about how alien >encounters may be more akin to spiritual experiences than >physical ones - while still being real. >Swiss psychologist Remo F. Roth, Ph.D, says "in my opinion the >UFO abduction phenomenon is very real. It is however only >perceptible in an altered state of the ego. ...In the moment of >the abduction the victims are forced into an altered >consciousness. ...The victims are abducted into a world that is >neither exclusively physical nor psychic." <snip> >Earlier this year, when Prof. Chris French of Goldsmiths >College, University of London, announced that the psychological >profiles of people who experience alien encounters include >traits associated with spiritual disciples, such as a propensity >towards absorption and disassociation, the implication was >clear: alien encounters may be more akin to "visions of the >spirit" than "visits from the saucers". <snip> Will Bueche opens a door to alien abductions that should be grist for theologians and, perhaps, ufologists. New Testament and Gnostic accounts of Jesus' appearance after His alleged (supposed) resurrection resemble the kinds of between incorporeality and tangibility (corporeality) that abduction accounts mimic. That is, Jesus was neither here nor there but in an altered state of being that doesn't fit the physical laws of nature as we know them. This, as I posited with material from Hindu texts a while back, may account for the abduction phenomenon as Will Bueche also sees it, if I understand him correctly. Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) accounts of "messengers from God" and angels too - even God himself - come very close to what experiencers undergo. Is it verboten to pursue the "spiritual" aspect of UFOs and the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:32:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:18:32 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Reynolds >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:20:45 EDT >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up <snip> >...If some new advanced technology and shift in paradigm >occurred that if let known to the public jeopardized this control, >I for one would believe they'd shut up about it and use that >knowledge to barter with. >Those who would lose the most are of course the U.S. the U.K., >Switzerland. All the big banking countries. Not to forget the >Saudis. >China and Russia would only lose because that flow of hush money >would cease and nationalism would collapse. They would have to >be honest. <snip> >The threat of loss of wealth, position, power and public >ridicule are weapons as well. Greg: Do you (and a few other UpDaters) really believe that governments are hoarding secret UFO information to maintain their power base or wealth? Those in control of the world's economy are ingenious and calculating enough to capitalize [sic] on supposed alien technology and knowledge if there were such things. No one in power today - Bush, Blair, Putin, et al. - would be afraid to come forth with a disclosure that aliens have provided Earthlings (them) with new science and invention that will make the world a better place. These men, full of hubris, would put any such technology in the hands of their cronies (Halliburton et cetera) and make even more wealth for their interconnected alliances and families. If there are alien secrets - which is iffy on many accounts - I can't imagine the power brokers letting it sit idle for as long as they have, apparently, without taking advantage of it. Fossil fuels provide wealth for these guys, but an alien
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:20:04 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Reynolds >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:15:47 +0100 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:28:44 +0200 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:46:05 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>How does the US government manage to have the same >>>control over crashing UFOs when such incidents can >>>happen, unpredictably, anywhere in the world, at any >>>time? Why do ETH believers always manage to avoid >>>giving a sensible answer to this obvious question? >>The idea that it would be impossible to control all UFO crahes, >>in any part of the world, is worth consideration. For me, after >>thinking about it, it does not sound all that impossible. The >>first reason is that, contrary to many rumors, alleged crashes >>have been probably in very limited numbers (and, yes, there have >>been many false rumors of crashes). The second reason is that >>there is no piece of land in the whole world which escapes >>military control, by one nation or another. And I don't see any >>government and military establishment willing to release such >>information. Any crash of an unknown craft will fall >>automatically under military control. <snip> >..you are assuming a lot here. You take it for granted that >those countries where the crashes occurred would want to cover >up the fact. You assume that the military in each of these >countries would get there first, before anyone else, and demand >silence on the part of the civilian population, the press and >other media. This is simply going along with Stan Friedman and >his nonsensical 'cosmic Watergate'. Why on earth should such a >vital scientific discovery as this be covered up at all? Can >you name any other discovery that would be covered up in this >way (and for six decades at that)? >Since we can take it that the US could not and would not manage >to despatch their forces to every nation on earth in the event >of a UFO crash, you now try to persuade us that these countries >could, or would, do it themselves, and silence everyone in the >process. <snip> >This is simply conspiracy theory gone mad. CDA et al. You are exactly right. But the real fly in the ointment is that is is sheer nonsense to assume that UFO crashes have occurred or only occur in places where the military has "instant" access and outside the purview of the general population (including media). A failed flying saucer, if it really did fail, would have little or no choice of where it would end up. That no population center has experienced such a crash in all the years that these things have been seen goes to the heart of the problem with the conspiracy theory of crashed UFOs and the military's seemingly omnipotent power to constrain any information about alleged crashes.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Memory Without Klass - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:56:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:22:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Reynolds >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:48:59 +0100 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:45:51 -0500 >>Subject: Memory Without Klass >>Ref: SDI #361... >>Memory Without Klass >>In the early 1980s, Stanton Friedman decided to immigrate to >>Canada from the US. Forgetting how prescient he may have been, >>I've heard Mr. Friedman say he did it primarily to take >>advantage of the superior health system. >>Philip Klass got wind of it, somehow, and took it upon himself >>to write the Canadian National Research Council a confidential >>letter - don't say it was ME, Oh Canada - to warn them about >>the undesirable element they were getting ready to allow into >>their country. In effect, Klass was trying to poison Mr. >>Friedman's Canadian well before he got there, restrict Mr. >>Friedman's movements, and egregiously intrude on Mr. Friedman's >>civil rights. The scurrilous and unrepentant _bastard_! >>In this just discovered letter, by Richard Dolan, Klass warned >>Canada with regard an "insidious threat" it faced to the >>security and stability of their country were they to allow >>Stanton Freidman, a "clutching, octopus-like snake oil salesman >>and uber-charlatan... a destabilizing UFO believer" (!) ... to >>immigrate. >How has this letter just surfaced, and exactly how did Richard >Dolan get hold of it? I must say I find it very hard to believe >any such letter was ever written. >One question: What does Stan Friedman say about it? >It will not surprise me in the least if fake letters and other >documents implicating Klass in all sorts of underhand tactics >suddenly appear, now that he is dead. In fact it is entirely >predictable. Look at Menzel & MJ-12. CDA: If you had listened to Errol Bruce-Knapp's radio show this past Saturday [9/24] - Strange Days...Indeed - you would have heard Dolan's reading of the letter and Stan Friedman's response; both were in the studio and on the air.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:22:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:24:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:28:06 -0500 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace <snip> >If aliens are visiting, an arguable point despite the >circumstantial evidence, their mission has been inscrutable to >everyone, even the governments you think are in the know. >One other point: if Eisenhower met with an alien delegation in >1954 as you state, it sure didn't seem to disrupt his golf >game(s). >I'd think such a meeting would change one's existential modus. Hi Rich, I believe that a biography of Jackie Gleason tells the story of his playing golf with (then) President Nixon in Florida where they had summer homes, and they discussed Jackie's serious interest in UFOs. Nixon then allegedly took Gleason to seen an alien craft at a local Air Base, and the only person he told of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Memory Without Klass - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:07:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:28:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Clark >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:48:59 +0100 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:45:51 -0500 >>Subject: Memory Without Klass >>Ref: SDI #361... >How has this letter just surfaced, and exactly how did Richard >Dolan get hold of it? I must say I find it very hard to believe >any such letter was ever written. It is "very hard to believe" only if one doesn't know Klass or, worse, has a glossy-eyed romantic view of him (as in the profoundly silly Fortean Times obit). Without knowing more about the alleged Friedman letter, I can't
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:10:11 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:29:51 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Frison >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:18:17 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:13:23 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >Ed's denial of possibilities is based on what? A few disgruntled >academics clinging to outdated `rules' That's pretty well the bottom line, Ray - except that his "denial of possibilities" also seems to be based on a ridiculous science of his own creation, one that has, for instance, evolution that is not affected by billions of years and 'speed limits' for molecules (which will 'fly apart' or 'lose identity' when a certain speed is reached). I thought we were past this crazy 'molecular limit' notion when Ed conceded he misinterpreted the formula (so I continued to discuss things with him) but apparently he was only conceding the 11, 400 mph 'speed limit' - he still views the 'molecular limitation' as valid and effective at some velocity (just not below 17, 000 mph). This is despite David's 'billiard ball' analogy which was designed to show how the _whole_ concept was flawed, not just the number of 'miles per hour' he had picked. There is _nothing_ possible outside his 'Earth-evolved monotreme from the AA film' explanation so it's pointless to try to discuss anything with him. He bases his views on faulty interpretations of science that he clearly not only doesn't understand but _misunderstands_ and when you try to explain to him principles he's confusing or missing then you're lecturing, sermonizing, side-tracking, or just plain causing the discussion to "go down hill." Our discussion has been pretty rational and only "goes down hill" when Ed gets into it with another one of his innane contributions. I don't know if he does it on purpose and - like very many people have said to me off list - his purpose here is to disrupt rational discussion on UFOs and waste the time of serious UFO investigators and researchers, or if he really believes the ridiculous notions he puts forth here and he's truely this ignorant and confused. I think the latter more likely but it doesn't really matter because I'm not wasting anymore of _my_ time trying to discuss anything with him. >The material of space is said to be filled with a froth of >virtual particles. Perhaps, in addition, there are some lepton >neutrino space-filling particles that constitute a hydrodynamic >energy that exerts pressure on mass concentrations. If these >particles, real or virtual normally flow through matter, but >encounter increasing resistance with mass density, we could >attribute the force of gravity to this virtual particle >pressure. Likewise, such a pressure may be responsible for >inertia. Hmmmm! I've heard this explanation of gravitation before. Both modern day versions of it as well as older ones. For instance, the Rosicrucian mystics (no, I'm not endorsing them) contend that the force of gravitation is a 'push' rather than a 'pull' and that, as it applies to attempting to levitate an object, there is a considerable difference between the effects of a 'push' and a 'pull' force. In a copy of their 'Rosicrucian Manual' which I have in my library, they state that they have _always_ contended this explanation of gravitation to be true, the implication being that it supposedly is an 'old teaching' of theirs. Whether or not such claims are based in fact is not the issue, my point is their 'push' explanation of gravitation seems to match the newer 'pressure' version you've mentioned, in that the lepton nuetrino space-filling particles exerting pressure as they encounter mass would be more of a 'push' against matter than it would be a 'pull' (attractive force) originating from the mass itself. Gravitation has not been completely figured out yet and thus we can't say if this 'pressure' explanation is the real explanation or not. >If we take the analogous elements here and apply them to a UFO >moving through our atmosphere at high speed where the UFO may be >generating a supercavity in the surrounding air, then the >reduced drag would account for much that is observed in ufo >aerodynamics if, by producing such a supercavity, it is not only >reducing atmospheric resistance, but inertia as well. >What do you think? I don't have a very extensive understanding of aerodynamics - just some basics from what I've read over the years out of interest - so I don't know if cavitation or supercavitation occurs when an object moves at high velocity through the atmosphere. Perhaps someone like Don Ledger or Bruce Maccabee could help us out here. As I understand it, in water, there seems to be two 'mediums' (media) of quite different density involved in the process - water and an air bubble - that results in the effect. Would something similiar occur within the atmosphere or would effects like friction and ionization lead to a different set of circumstances? The space shuttle returning to Earth might be a good candidate for comparison. Again, Bill, I'm no expert but I wonder if such a process could really seperate, so to speak, a craft from inertia. I think the property of inertia is an inherent one that couldn't be gotten rid of through cavitation or supercavitation. We wouldn't want to get rid of inertia anyway. Our blood flows through our blood vessels the way it does by working against inertia. If inertia was to disappear then our blood would literally boil in our veins and arteries. The trick is, I think, to create artifical gravitation and inertia fields around a craft so that any occupants still reap the benefits of inertia (and gravitation) but the artifical fields somehow have to balance against the regular gravitational and inertial forces of our universe that impose limitations on movement (motion). Even if we could use something akin to 'supercavitation' to overcome inertia (which I doubt) the occupants would quickly be dead because they need inertia to maintain life processes. I think these artificial fields that you first mentioned to begin this thread - if such can be created - are a more likely way of duplicating the UFOs behaviour because they would act as necessary substitutes that counteract. But I'd like some input from others who know more about aerodynamics and cavitation/supercavitation because, to be honest, Bill, I don't know for sure if there is such a connection between motion in fluids and motion in gases. My first inclination is towards there being two different scenarios for objects moving rapidly within a fluid and objects moving rapidly within a gas but I don't know enough about it to answer you. Certainly, I don't expect we could use these principles to overcome gravitation/inertia but as to whether a protective 'bubble' occurs that allows faster travel through the atmosphere, as occurs in water, is outside my level of knowledge. Judging by the concerns of what happens around the shuttle when it's coming back in, I'd lean, however, towards a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:20:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:44:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Groff >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:06:22 +0100 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:57:36 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:59:15 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:03:51 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >>>>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>><snip> >>>>I don't know which 'Bluebook' case it was but I remember an old >>>>episode of "Project UFO" in which a passenger on a plane saw an >>>>object very similar to the one shown in the video. When they >>>>took a plane up and flew the same course in the same weather >>>>conditions the object again appeared then disappeared the same >>>>way. The explanation was a temperature inversion that was merely >>>>reflecting part of the planes fuselage at a certain point. Being >>>>a case supposedly from Project Bluebook maybe somebody knows >>>>about it. >>>That is one of the least physically acceptable explanations I >>>have heard. <snip> >>>After all,any explanation is better than none (debunker rule >>>#1), even if it makes no sense. >>You have to remember that I was trying to recall something that >>I saw on TV almost 30 years ago. I've slept since then. :-) >>I could have been wrong about the temperature inversion. I >>really don't remember anything except that in the episode they >>were able to duplicate the event. Whether it actually happened >>or not, I don't know. >>I was hoping that someone on the List might recall the actual >>Blue Book Case so it could be looked up to see what BB's >>explanation really was. You know, some of their explanations >>might actually be correct. >>I tried searching the Bluebook Archives site but couldn't find >>anything. >Terry The film you are thinking of is almost certainly that >taken by Mrs Joan Oldfield while flying between Manchester and >Southampton in March 1966. >It shows a sort of stubby cigar with wings which changed shape >and disappeared. >The film was shown on the BBC programme Tomorrow's World, which >duplicated the flight and showed that the object was a >reflection, in the window, of the plane's tail unit. >The case is discussed in Chapter 11 of Robert Chapman's book >Unidentified Flying Objects (also published as UFO) first >published by Arthur Barker in 1969. Most editions reproduced 3 >still photos from the film in the photo section. >Temperature inversions don't feature in the explanation. Hi Peter, I'm actually talking about a 1978 TV series called "Project U.F.O." created by Jack Webb starring William Jordan, Aldine King, Caskey Swaim and Edward Winter. It would usually cover 2 or 3 cases from Project Bluebook. In each episode they would explain away all cases except for one. There was always one case that went unsolved at the end. This particular segment may well have been based on the case you
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 39 From: John Hayes <John.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:57:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:46:43 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 10 Number 39 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan.nul> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 10, Number 39 September 28, 2005 Editor: Joseph Trainor E-mail: Masinaigan.nul Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ MYSTERIOUS LIGHTS AT CAPE MEARES, OREGON On Saturday, September 17, 2005, around 9 p.m., eyewitness A.C. reported, "Shortly after sunset, we were watching the western sky. The sky was clear of clouds except for the distant (western) horizon, which had clouds only at the base of the sky, and behind us (in the east) there was a small band of clouds through which the nearly- full moon had just risen." "As we scanned the western horizon above the remnants of the sunset, two of us saw 4, perhaps 5, repetitions of a light show. We saw a row of very bright yellow-orange lights, large 'panels' of light, perhaps four times as tall as they were wide, in a regular horizontal row." "One of these phenomena included two rows of lights next to each other but not in the same-dimensional plane-- as if there were two objects going off together but were not level with each other. The number of 'light panels' that we saw at any given time varied from three to seven. At the time we saw seven, there was a gap or space of darkness, and we could see that the lights were slowly rotating out of sight on the right-hand edge." "The lights were out over the (Pacific) ocean, perhaps 3 to 5 miles (5 to 8 kilometers) away, about 15 to 20 degrees above the horizon from our vantage point. There were no other lights visible before, during or after we saw these lights (no moving lights--A.C.) No sound we could hear above the surf." "The lights were very, very bright, like looking through ports into a blast furnace for 20 to 30 seconds. And they did not move, remained stationary in the sky, and then they all took off." "The second set of lights was west-northwest; then the two sets of lights next to each other were approximately due west; then west-northwest again; and finally one light due west." "As they appeared again in a different part of the sky, it was only after a 30-second to one-minute pause. All of this happened within a span of 5 to 7 minutes." Cape Meares N.W.R. is about 10 miles (16 kilometers) west of Tillamook, Ore. and 80 miles (128 kilometers) west of Portland, the state's largest city. (Email Form Report) KANSAS WOMAN SNAPS PHOTOS OF DAYLIGHT DISK On Monday, September 19, 2005, at 7:09 p.m., Naomi Sweet was outdoors at her home in Galena, Kansas (population 3,287) when she spotted an unusual object in the sky--a gray disk. Quickly she grabbed her digital camera and began shooting. "I live in Galena, Kansas and was facing west photographing the sunset," Naomi reported, "As I was photographing, I noticed small bursts of tracer or something going towards the direction of the craft. At one point, there were three of the things. The disk was in the same position in all of the photos." "After taking more than 50 photos of the object, I am sending them to you for your expert opinion. I lightened and clarified very little in the photo. Other than that, the photo is unedited." Galena, Kan. is on Highway 66 about 10 miles (16 kilometers) west of Joplin, Missouri. (Email Form Report) SEVEN SPHERICAL UFOs SEEN IN PEORIA, ARIZONA On Saturday, September 17, 2005, eyewitness D.W. was at his home on 31st Avenue in Peoria, Arizona (population 108,634) when he saw something strange approaching from the east. "I was looking from my balcony at 10:30 a.m.," he reported, "Looking east, I could see a bright object in the sky. The orb was shiny. Seven other objects appeared around it. They stayed in the same spot for about 15 minutes and then moved to the left quickly, to face north. They moved left to right and right to left, almost hitting each other, and then got higher until they were all out of sight." "One of the objects appeared to collide with another at one point. They floated left to right and back and forth until they jumped from one spot to the next. There was no sound at all, and they were above the (other conventional) aircraft." "31st Avenue, Peoria is about 30 miles (50 kilometers) from the (Phoenix) airport. We see planes fly over all the time, but these were not planes. They were too high in the sky. Also, there were seven of them floating around from left to right. They were all orb- shaped. Me, my wife and my parents could all see them." (Many thanks to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike for this report.) MYSTERY FIREBALL SEEN OVER FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA "Dozens of people from Jacksonville (population 735,617) to Fort Pierce (population 37,516) flooded the U.S. Coast Guard late Tuesday," September 20, 2005, "with calls about a mysterious ball of fire seen flying in the sky," according to the newspaper Florida Today. "'Starting at about 7:30 last night, we started receiving calls here in the newsroom,' Florida Today Online news editor Dave Larimer said, 'In fact, the Coast Guard station at Port Canaveral got more than two dozen reports from people seeing a bright light in the sky over the (Atlantic) ocean.'" "From Fort Pierce to about 5 miles (8 kilometers) south of Jacksonville, reports came in to Coast Guard offices starting at about 7:30 p.m., a Coast Guard petty officer in Port Canaveral said." Petty Officer Yates "said callers to the Coast Guard station said a boater might have been in trouble. 'A lot of people thought it might have been a flare that might have gone up,' Yates said of other callers." "'One person thought the fireball went into the ocean,' Larimer said." "'The Coast Guard said it probably didn't and was just his perspective. We know it was not a rocket launch, and we know the Air Force was not doing anything.'" "Experts said it could be a piece of space junk or a large meteor burning up in the atmosphere." "The Coast Guard station near Jacksonville also received calls." "Babs Angel, a public affiars spokeswoman for Patrick Air Force Base, said no local military activity was taking place Tuesday night." (See Florida Today for September 21, 2005, "Mysterious 'ball of fire' seen in Florida skies." Many thanks to Robert Fischer for this newspaper article.) LUMINOUS UFO SEEN BY PAIR IN McKEESPORT, PENNSYLVANIA On Sunday, September 18, 2005, at 6:15 a.m., Edwin Heck reported, "Me and my life partner were taking my dog out for a walk. A bright light in the sky flew right above us. It had about six colored lights on it." "It looked like it was watching us, then it took off." "It was about 100 feet (30 meters) above us. It approached from the northeast, and it had red, blue, green lights on it." McKeesport, Pa. (population 24,040) is on Routes 48 and 148 approximately 7 miles (11 kilometers) southeast of Pittsburgh. (Email Form Report) UFO STARTLES FAMILY IN SCARBOROUGH, ONTARIO On Friday, September 16, 2005, at 10 p.m., eyewitness J.R. reported, "While watching TV" at their apartment in Scarborough, Ontario, Canada, "first my daughter, 15, noticed an orange glowing object in the north through our balcony windows. We're on the fifth floor. There is a Hydro field between our apartment and (Provincial Highway) 401, about one mile north. That area is quite dark. You can see light towers of the 401 as the only source of light when looking north. You cannot see any car lights from our vantage point. It (the UFO) appeared to zigzag across the sky. It appeared that the object was rather large and probably flew a few hundred feet off the ground." "We noticed her expression, somewhat puzzled, and we asked her what was going on, and she said, 'Nothing.'" "Then, within a few minutes, my wife yelled out, 'Did you see that!?' She described what she saw." The UFO was "a few hundred feet up, moving quite fast, especially when it zoomed out of her line of sight." "Then my daughter said she had just seen that a few minutes prior. My wife also noticed that the orange object had a 'trail' like when using a (fireworks) sparkler. In both cases, they got a quick glimpse of an orange light zigzagging and then skipping out of view." "We kept looking for another hour, but nothing reappeared." (Email Form Report) SIX GOATS KILLED BY CHUPACABRAS IN MEXICO "Six goats were found dead last night (Wednesday, September 21, 2005) at Rancho El Cadillo in the municipality of Juarez," in Mexico's northern state of Nuevo Leon. "The report came from Jesus Gel Gonzalez, the ranch owner, at 10:30 p.m. Thursday night (September 22, 2005) when he told the municipal police that six of his animals had been found dead with many strange wounds on their bodies." "Police officers and Dr. Oscar Sanchez, director of the Department of Health for Juarez, responded to the scene and found the carcasses of six goats, which presented very deep cuts to their necks. The injuries appeared to be the bite of some predatory animal, although what most surprised officials was the fact that there wasn't a drop of blood to be found in any of the remains." "The rancher stated that he had seen a creature standing 1.2 meters (just under 4 feet--J.T.) tall and with a 1.3-meter (4-foot) wingspan, which he suggests was the culprit in the goat slayings." "He added that this was not the first time had been killed this way on his property, and that even some of his dogs have disappeared." "Police responding to the scene have found some prints resembling long four-fingered claws but were unable to determine the type of beast that corresponded to it. Dr. Sanchez said that the injuries are not normal, given that a predator such as a puma (cougar or mountain lion in the USA--J.T.) would have ripped into the goat's abdomen to feed on the organs. The creature responsible for the goats' deaths only sucked their blood, and what kind of animal could have caused this remains a mystery." (See Mundo Misterioso for September 22, 2005. Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales para estas noticias.) Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news--and, hopefully, fewer hurricanes--from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup. See you next time! UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2005 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/submit/sightings.shtml -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Home to UFO Roundup, Encounters With Aliens On This Day, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert Rosales), Filer's Files, UFO News UK and more... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Memory Without Klass - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:25:24 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:49:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Balaskas >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:48:59 +0100 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:45:51 -0500 >>Subject: Memory Without Klass >>Ref: SDI #361... >>Memory Without Klass >>In the early 1980s, Stanton Friedman decided to immigrate to >>Canada from the US. Forgetting how prescient he may have been, >>I've heard Mr. Friedman say he did it primarily to take >>advantage of the superior health system. >>Philip Klass got wind of it, somehow, and took it upon himself >>to write the Canadian National Research Council a confidential >>letter - don't say it was ME, Oh Canada - to warn them about >>the undesirable element they were getting ready to allow into >>their country. In effect, Klass was trying to poison Mr. >>Friedman's Canadian well before he got there, restrict Mr. >>Friedman's movements, and egregiously intrude on Mr. Friedman's >>civil rights. The scurrilous and unrepentant _bastard_! >>In this just discovered letter, by Richard Dolan, Klass warned >>Canada with regard an "insidious threat" it faced to the >>security and stability of their country were they to allow >>Stanton Freidman, a "clutching, octopus-like snake oil salesman >>and uber-charlatan... a destabilizing UFO believer" (!) ... to >>immigrate. >How has this letter just surfaced, and exactly how did Richard >Dolan get hold of it? I must say I find it very hard to believe >any such letter was ever written. >One question: What does Stan Friedman say about it? >It will not surprise me in the least if fake letters and other >documents implicating Klass in all sorts of underhand tactics >suddenly appear, now that he is dead. In fact it is entirely >predictable. Look at Menzel & MJ-12. Hi Christopher! Richard Dolan mentioned about this letter from Philip Klass in his presentation at Sunday's 'Exopolitics Toronto' conference at the University of Toronto where Stanton Friedman, one of the conference speakers, was present in the audience. Speaking with Dolan just before his talk, I can confirm that he found Klass' letter to NRC's Dr. Al McNamara was found at the National Archives in Ottawa during Dolan's visit there this summer. McNamara was the scientist responsible for the "UFO files" after Project Magnet, one of Canada's official and unclassified studies on UFOs, came to an end. Project Magnet was headed by NcNamara's colleague, the late Dr. Peter Millman, who was also with NRC. I suspect that other Canadian researchers such as Grant Cameron, Chris Rutkowski, Palmiro Campagna and others (including myself) had seen this letter from Klass but I was surprised that Friedman and other researchers seemed unaware of it. This was not the only time that scientists, archivists, etc. had been "warned" in writing about certain curious UFO researchers in search of the truth by individuals or agencies. In the coming months I expect to get a complete index of all of Millman's papers and personal correspondence on CD from the archivist at the NRC Headquarters on Sussex Drive where they are now being sorted and catalogued. Interestly, I hope to find out further details about the two mysterious "meteoroids" that entered Earth orbit a few years before the launch of the first artificial satellite that was mentioned in 'Aviation Week (or "Leak") and Space Technology', a publication which Klass served as editor! I have material (documents, notes from people interviewed, etc.) that claim contact was made with the occupants of these two mysterious orbiting "meteoroids" and that the Canadian Government allocated a military airbase in Alberta as the place where these ETs could land without risk of attack or capture. Since Millman was Canada's expert on meteors at the time (and later head of Canada's UFO study) he would have been aware of these mysterious meteoroids and have corresponded with the people referred to in the article of the publication Klass was editor of. There is a still classified report, 'Project Y', from 1952 that I obtained and gave to Friedman at the start of the conference which suggest that some UFOs at not from out of this world but
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 French 1950 Landing Case From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:39:36 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:51:19 -0400 Subject: French 1950 Landing Case In the last issue of the Journal of UFO History, Richard Hall included a short note about a "French 1950 Landing Case, Humanoid Beings Emerged" About a month after the East Berlin sighting reported on the previous page (Herr Oskar Linke's), a retired pilot in Guayancourt, France, M. Claude Blondeau, had a similar sighting. As later reported by "Point de Vue" (a weekly newspaper), he stated: "At 11 p.m. on July 23, 1950, I was walking along the edge of the airfield. In the darkness I glimpsed two objects resembling two enormous hollow plates, about 5 meters in diameter. All around the edge they were fittedwith rectangular portholes. The lower surface of these saucers opened, and two men emerged. They were about 170 cm (5 ft. 7 in.) tall, and wore dark blue flying suits." (Source: CSI of New York sightings card file). But that case is much more spectacular. See: http://magonia.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ MAGONIA Supplement #38 "Moon Roof Optional" Martin Kottmeyer If you read that article you will discover that there are some doubts about if the case was known before or after Adamski's contact tale.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Intelligent Design From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:11:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:53:08 -0400 Subject: Intelligent Design The trial underway in Harrisburg, for including "Intelligent Design" within the Dover Area school system, deserves our attention. From reading a recent AP article by a Martha Raffaele, I see that the subject is being presented in a manner that does not bring in creationist falsehoods associated with Old Testament stories. Rather, "Intelligent design holds that Darwin's theory of natural selection over time cannot fully explain the origin of life or the emergence of highly complex life forms. It implies that life on Earth was the product of an unidentified intelligent force." And, "This case is about free inquiry in education, not about a religious agenda." This agrees, or does not necessarily disagree, with many of the implications of the UFO phenomenon. It comes close to the way ufology itself might present a similar case, for teaching about the UFO phenomenon within school systems. It allows in the idea that unidentified intelligences could have modified evolution here and there, including that of modern man, and it could open up for discussion topics within books like "Forbidden Archaeology" by Cremo & Thompson, and "Fingerprints of the Gods" by Hancock. I think this trial and its resulting publicity will help ufology
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:55:10 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:08:40 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:25:30 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>Is the creature in the AA footage from another solar system? >>That's the question on my mind. I realize that isn't what you >>want to discuss and I thought I explained: once I believed that >>star travel was possible but after examining the evidence, I've >>changed my mind. Why is it so hard for you and others to >>understand that simple fact? There isn't any evidence that star >>travel is possible. >That's simply your opinion Ed, not a statement of fact. You >could just as well argue that there isn't any evidence that star >travel is impossible. Hi David, Yes, star travel might be possible if we had unlimited time but there are other problems. Below you�ll find two links that seem to illustrate the scientific viewpoint: http://tinyurl.com/bedeq www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/research/warp/scales.html Theorizing light speed travel isn't necessary if these critters are from our solar system. The creatures in the AA and the debris are not from another star system but you'd have to examine the footage with me to understand my reasons for holding this opinion. >There is certainly no law of physics that forbids interstellar >travel. Various engineering scenarios well-within the scope of >present-day understanding of physical law would permit it, such >as solar-powered lasers beaming energy to a probe with a large >sail (one of the NASA schemes currently under investigation). >Such systems would be expensive and would call for advances in >material technology and robotics, but seem technically feasible >within the next 100 to 200 years. The point is that interstellar >travel, even without speculative faster-than-light proposals >like warp drives, wormholes, or quantum teleportation, is >theoretically possible at sublight speeds using old-fashioned, >brute force propulsion technologies. >>The links you posted contained one "bravo" >>and a simple anomaly. That isn't evidence. >Neither is the alien autopsy for your point of view. Even if you >_assume_ the film genuine and being to be real and nonhuman, >deducing that it was originally an earthly humanoid marsupial >from an ancient civilization is wild-assed speculation at best. The creature in the AA is not a marsupial; I theorize that it is a Monotreme, an egg laying mammal. A marsupial is a placental and would have a navel and a pouch. Also the creature doesn�t seem to have any teeth or nipples, and only one hole. The evolutionary timeline for the monotreme, an egg laying mammal, would allow for an advanced civilization to arise and decline without us being aware of its existence. >>The lion is in the village and instead of sharpening your spear >>points, you sit around, spitting in the fire and telling ghost >>stories. >Huh? I think that the creatures are predators and we�re all in danger. We could prepare for their arrival by studying the tangible evidence we have (the AA footage, cameraman�s drawings,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:53:28 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:56:46 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:48:28 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:13:23 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:54:58 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia <snip> >There was also an old theory of gravity based on filling space >with a field of particles that exert pressure from every >direction, and you could explain inverse square "attraction" in >a crude way because the angular area of objects that shadow one >another from the particle flow would vary as the inverse square >of separation. I don't know if anyone seriously worked this up >but I've seen it mentioned. Feynman discusses it somewhere. This >is similar to your proposal. Hello Martin & All Yes, Feynman considered that theory and, for same reason that Michelson-Morley experiment was considered a failure, he dismissed it because he, and everyone else was considering a *slow universal pressure (*slow - i.e. light speed or below). At a *slow speed such a force would be obvious, giving you extra gravitational effects when you moved, even uniformly: which doesn't happen [we don't detect uniform motion']. But if the universal force were incoming at many, many multiples of light speed then we wouldn't be able to detect it by movement because our movement wouldn't be able to make more than a tiny, undetectable difference. That's also real reason why the Michelson - Morley experiment has not been correctly evaluated. But we *could* detect a small effect at relativistic speeds - and NASA has been detecting such a mystery force for about seven years or more (check "LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY NEWS RELEASE - September 24, 1998" in Google"). >Some properties of mass could be produced by your particle- >resistance. But one main problem with an idea like this would be >explaining why Newton's First Law is valid. Why do objects keep >moving? Inertia isn't just about them sitting still of course, >but about them needing a reason not to just keep on going. >Motion ought to be damped out. Right Martin, and Feynman spoke on that - "The reason why things coast for ever has never been found out. The law of inertia has no known origin" (Lecture published as "The Character of Physical Law" p. 19). I.e. exactly as you went on to say:- >But GR itself doesn't explain >inertia; it describes how the spacetime metric responds locally >to the presence of mass but I personally think some way is >needed of implementing Mach's principle non-locally to explain >inertia. >Intriguing stuff though. Right again, but now we've got a force that _will_ explain the "extra" inertia you get by spinning something: a coin, a bucket of water (Newton) or water filled balloon (Einstein); it's _got_to_ come from surrounding space and, by Occam, it's the same force that confers both mass and "ordinary" inertia (only one force - because mass & inertia are always exactly proportional). Which means there's a likely "Inertia Drive" and an "Inertia Shield" just around the corner from now. Cheers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Light Circles? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:47:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:59:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - Maccabee >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:26 +0100 >Subject: Re: Light Circles? >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:18:38 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Light Circles? <snip> >>>If it is true as claimed that the effect is increasingly >>>frequent (rather than just being more frequently noticed because >>>sites like the above are drawing attention to it) my guess is >>>that it must have something to do with some recent change in >>>glazing techniques. The instances I've seen have involved >>>double-glazed sealed units. I wondered at first if solar heating >>>of the glass causes expansion of the panes which, being fixed in >>>a rectangular sealed unit, are forced to deform slightly. Light >>>could be scattered internally between the panes in some way. But >>>I have also seen the same type of effect in sunlight reflected >>>on the ceiling from the flat glass of my digital watch! No >>>double-glazing there, and no time for significant heating >>>either. Any optical physicists out there, Bruce....? >>I first became aware of this "phenomenon" over a year ago. >>Wondered how long it would take to reach the UFO community. >>Note the association with miracles and maitreya. Do a google on >>maitreya and you will see why I am suspicious. Without proof to >>the contrary I would suspect some digital trickery. >>At any rate, connection with UFOs is slim to zero. >Agreed the relevance to UFOs seems small, but since Roy raised
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Apollo 11 UFO Encounter From: Dave Stone <dlstone63.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:14:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:02:03 -0400 Subject: Apollo 11 UFO Encounter A few days ago on The Science Channel, a program called "First on the Moon: The Untold Story" was aired. About 14:30 min/sec into the program, there was a 3.5 minute segment that described a UFO encounter that Apollo 11 experienced during its flight to the moon. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time that Buzz Aldrin, an Apollo 11 astronaut, had ever publicly recounted any UFO experience associated with the Apollo 11 moon mission. Also of interest, I wonder how the UFO footage that was supposedly taken from a later Apollo mission obtained? Below is my transcription of the 3.5 minute UFO segment: START: Narrator: But three days and 200,000 miles into the flight, Mission Control did miss the significance of a cryptic message from Apollo 11. Apollo 11: 'Do you have any idea where the S-IVB is with respect to us? Mission Control: 'Stand-by' Narrator: The Crew required information on the current position of the S-IVB, the final stage of the rocket which had been jettisoned away 2 days earlier. This short message hid an extraordinary turn of events: Apollo 11 wasn't alone in space. Buzz Aldrin: There was something out there that, uh, was close enough to be observed and what could it be? Narrator: Traveling along side of Apollo 11 was a mysterious object like this one (a ringed object at close range is shown), filmed on a later mission. If it wasn't part of their own rocket, it could only be one thing, a UFO. Aldrin: Mike (Collins) decided he thought he could see it in the telescope and he was able to do that and when it was in one position, that had a series of ellipses, but when you made it real sharp it was sort of L shaped. That didn't tell us very much. Dr. David Baker (Apollo 11 Senior Scientist): NASA knew very little about, um, the object reported by the Apollo 11 crew. It was obviously an unidentified flying object, but such objects were not uncommon and the history of even earth orbit space flights going back over the previous years indicated that several crews saw objects. Narrator: Despite having a clear view of the UFO, the crew were wary of reporting it to Mission Control. Aldrin: Now, obviously, the three of us were not going to blurt out, 'Hey Houston we got something moving along side of us and we don't know what it is, you know, can you tell us what it is?'. We weren't about to do that, cause we know that those transmissions would be heard by all sorts of people and who knows what somebody would have demanded that we turn back because of Aliens or whatever the reason is, so we didn't do that but we did decide we'd just cautiously ask Houston where, how far away was the S-IVB? Narrator: Unaware of the drama unfolding in space, Mission Control radioed the position back to Apollo 11. Mission Control: 'Apollo 11, Houston. The S-IVB is about 6,000 nautical miles from you now, over.' Aldrin: And a few moments later, why they came back and said something like it was 6,000 miles away because of the maneuver, so we really didn't think we were looking at something that far away, so we decided that after a while of watching it, it was time to go to sleep and not to talk about it anymore until we came back and (went through) debriefing. Narrator: To this day, whatever it was that the crew saw has never been positively identified or officially acknowledged. Dr. David Baker: There were a lot of people within the program who went off later and became convinced that UFOs existed and that lead to some concern on NASA's part where they got the agreement of the crew never to publicly talk about these things for fear of ridicule.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Myers From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:53:18 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:03:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video - Myers >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:06:22 +0100 >Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:57:36 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:59:15 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:03:51 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video >>>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 04:38:15 -0700 >>>>>Subject: Re: Pennsylvania UFO Video <snip> The so-called Pennsylvania video was actually shot in Ohio...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Toronto Symposium Report #01 - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:17:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:06:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Toronto Symposium Report #01 - Velez >Source: The Varsity On-Line >The University of Toronto's Student Newspaper >http://tinyurl.com/9lwz6 >Monday, September 26, 2005 >The Truth Is Out There >By Chris Damdar >Imagine a corrupt government using alien technology to control >citizens with "thought-controlling video games" and "nanochips >below the skin"; developing "alien particle beams" and >"robosoldiers" to conquer rival nations; allowing aliens to >"steal people from their beds" for experimentation. And most >importantly, imagine this government covers up its alien contact >with lies, conspiracies, and red tape. Don't you have a right to >know? >You sure do, according to speakers at a symposium held at >Convocation Hall on Sunday morning, and run by the Mutual UFO >Network (MUFON), a US-based UFO watchgroup. Hi All, If I may... Mr. Damdar reports: >The symposium's featured speaker was the Honourable Paul >Hellyer, former Canadian minister of national security under >Lester Pearson. Hellyer described his first contact with UFOs as >he sat around a campfire with friends and his late wife. >"A bright light appeared in the sky and appeared to zig and zag >across the horizon. Some thought it was an airplane," he said. >Recently, the book The Day After Roswell by Colonel Phillip >Corso "sparked my interest," said Hellyer. Ok, I _have to_ ask; which blooming genius handed a man like Helyer Phillip Corso's book to read? Whoever is responsible needs to be put to sleep. Humanely of course. Why wasn't Helyer introduced to such works as; The UFO Evidence, I & II by Richard Hall, or Jerry Clark's, The UFO Encyclopedia? Geez, just about anything would have been better than the Corso book. I wasn't there at Convocation Hall. I didn't have to be. I can see it all now... Helyer is at the podium bringing by his mere presence a little much needed credibility to the subject of UFOs. Then comes the Corso comment. <dead silence> At the sound of those words, one by one, every 'serious' student of ufology in attendance suddenly feels an almost physical sinking sensation down in the pit of their stomachs. Stan Friedman grimaces and shrugs his shoulders. Did you just look down at your shoes Stan? Or did you continue to look at Helyer in complete disbelief at what you just heard exit his mouth. Talk about Helyer proving to be an anti-climactic element. I would like to have snapped a picture from the stage of the faces of the people in the audience when Helyer referred to Corso as a 'source' of information. It must have been just like that scene in Mel Brooks' The Producers, when the audience is sitting there frozen, with their mouths agape at refrains of, "Springtime for Hitler and Germany..." Oh, but there's more... >Hellyer claimed America is working to deploy alien weapons. "The >US has developed the aliens' own weapons to the point they can >be used against the aliens from space....What crimes have they >committed? They may have abducted a few people but they haven't >killed anyone." I could say many things here. That whole paragraph is pregnant with material for a sci-fi short story, but I will say only this about his closing remark -because I took umbrage to it: If it had happened to him, and _his_wife_ and kids, he'd be whistling that little tune out of the other side of his mouth. I wish he'd stuck to discussing the UFO cases that came across his desk while he was Canada's defense minister. Now -that- would have made for an interesting and even historic presentation. Once more the 'high ground' eludes us. >The symposium's last speaker was Stephen G. Bassett, a >conspiracy theorist who described the present day as "Secret >Empire." Conspiracy theorist. I suppose it's much more accurate fit than 'UFO lobbyist.' I might have added; 'showman'. But that's just me. >Upon walking towards University College, however, The Varsity >determined the UFOs were in fact birds. No comment. <grimace> I look forward to seeing the video or hearing the recording of the event. Does anyone know if/when one will be available? After learning that Helyer soiled himself I'm not much interested in whatever else he may have had to say. The 'Corso' endorsement kind of poops on his own credibility alnog with anything of value he may brought to the table. More than anything else I really just want to look for some familiar faces in the crowd and to catch Stan's talk. Sounds like Victor and Mike got a good turn out for their conference. I happen to know (and like) both of these gentle men very much. I'm glad it was a success for them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 The Clipper From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:22:50 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:09:23 -0400 Subject: The Clipper Source: BBC News - Science http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4286086.stm Tuesday, 27 September 2005 Plans for Euro-Russian spaceplane By Helen Briggs BBC News science reporter, Moscow A mock-up of the Clipper on display at the Moscow Airshow The European Space Agency (ESA) is proposing joining forces with Russia to develop a new vehicle for human spaceflight, the Clipper. The six-person spaceplane would give European astronauts autonomous access to the space station and the Moon. ESA will ask its member states to fund a 30-40m-euro (20-27m) preparatory study at its next ministerial meeting. Russia is planning to replace its ageing Soyuz capsule with the Clipper and is seeking international partners. The Soyuz has been in operation since the late 1960s, flying cosmonauts back and forth to Salyut, Mir and the International Space Station. Regarded as the workhorse of Russia's manned and unmanned space fleet, it is one of the most reliable spacecraft ever built. CLIPPER TIMELINE 2011: First Clipper test flight 2014: Soyuz phased out 2020: First crewed Clipper flight But Russia is looking to the future and is planning to replace the Soyuz with a new vehicle that would be capable of taking cosmonauts into lunar orbit. "The objective is to have a vehicle which is more comfortable than the Soyuz capsule which will be used with pilots and four passengers," Alain Fournier-Sicre, head of the ESA permanent mission in the Russian Federation, told the BBC News website. "It's meant to service the space station and to go between Earth and an orbit around the Moon with six crew members." People carrier The Clipper is essentially a "people carrier" designed to transport astronauts, said Alan Thirkettle, head of the ESA's Human Spaceflight Development Department. For future exploration, when we have the objective of going to the Moon, it is important to have several possibilities to go there Alain Fournier-Sicre, ESA By joining forces with Russia, Europe would have access to a fixed number of seats on the vehicle, perhaps one or two per flight, for use by its own astronauts. "At the moment we have to ask the Russians or ask the Americans to fly an astronaut," said Mr Thirkettle. "Through participation in the Clipper, we would have the right to seats when we want them." European industry would benefit, too, from Russia's years of experience in human spaceflight, he said. Russia, in return, would have access to certain technologies that are more sophisticated in Europe. "It potentially is a fairly happy marriage," said Mr Thirkettle. Lunar goals Russia intends to build the Clipper within the next decade, carrying out the first automatic test flight in 2011. The fleet would gradually be phased in, finally replacing the Soyuz in 2014. The first flights with cosmonauts would start around 2020, at a time when the world has set its sights on returning to the Moon. The Clipper would allow Russia and Europe to collaborate with the Americans on lunar exploration, allowing six astronauts to orbit the Moon and to act as a back-up rescue craft, if needed. "Experience has shown that it is very important within an international programme to have a robust approach in terms to access to space," said Mr Fournier-Sicre. "For future exploration, when we have the objective of going to the Moon, it is important to have several possibilities to go there, and within this framework of cooperation to have our own access to orbit around the Moon." The Clipper also enhances the possibility of space tourism. "On the Russian side, of course, they have in mind space tourism and propose a certain level of comfort; but the main objective is science," said Mr Fournier-Sicre. ESA is to ask member states to fund a two-year study looking
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:34:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:12:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Hall >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:59:13 +0100 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:29:15 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>Clancy may have gotten a false sample, especially if she derived >>them from Mack's work because he was New-Age prone and inclined >>to attract abductees of similar beliefs. A very interesting >>study would be the belief systems of abductees before and after >>the perceived events. >Ah! The wrong kind of abductee! >If abductees who have positive responses to their experience are >regarded as 'false samples' and excluded, it naturally leads to >the conclusion that the abduction experience produces a negative >response. >QED. Quantitative Egregious Dumbness? Why is it that all Klassic skeptibunkers seem to engage in this sort of sophistry? As you so glibly circumvent, my argument was that the DATA overwhelmingly indicate a very negative response to the experiences. My further argument was that New Age responses probably were predetermined by the small handful who see anything positive. Mack's New Age views are transparent in his first book. Now, my argument may be wrong in some respect but you will have to specifically dispute my data, not (as you are doing) simply presume that they must be wrong and imply that there is some fallacy in my reasoning. Facts are facts, John. Show me where my facts are wrong. >>The notion that sleep paralysis explains abduction reports, as >>several people already have pointed out, is refuted by the >>elementary data of the reports. But the Clancy's of the world go >>merrily along force-fitting their theories and ignoring the >>data. >But sleep paralysis does explain _some_ abduction reports, in >the same way that *some* UFO reports can be explained by mundane >factors, and research can concentrate on the unexplained cases. >But there seems to be the general assumption that there are *no* >explained abduction cases. >QED. Queer Educational Deficiency? Sleep paralysis may explain a few cases reported as abductions. That certainly should be studied and cases should be screened for it. When they are, it turns out that the sleep paralysis explanation used so sweepingly by the Clancy's of the world is rather inadequate for the great bulk of cases. Why is it that skeptibunkers seize on the grossly inadequate explanation as if it were some panacea while ignoring the fact that the vast majority of cases are unexplained. I refer here to those cases which have been thoroughly investigated, not to raw uninvestigated reports. In my own investigations I discovered about two or three (out of hundreds) that appeared to be experiencer wanna-bes, perhaps attention-seeking or psychologically disturbed individuals. I suppose by skeptibunker logic I should therefore throw out all
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 Re: French 1950 Landing Case - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:57:19 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:15:01 -0400 Subject: Re: French 1950 Landing Case - Hall >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:39:36 +0200 >Subject: French 1950 Landing Case >In the last issue of the Journal of UFO History, Richard Hall >included a short note about a "French 1950 Landing Case, >Humanoid Beings Emerged" >About a month after the East Berlin sighting reported on the >previous page (Herr Oskar Linke's), a retired pilot in >Guayancourt, France, M. Claude Blondeau, had a similar sighting. >As later reported by "Point de Vue" (a weekly newspaper), he >stated: >"At 11 p.m. on July 23, 1950, I was walking along the edge of >the airfield. In the darkness I glimpsed two objects resembling >two enormous hollow plates, about 5 meters in diameter. All >around the edge they were fittedwith rectangular portholes. The >lower surface of these saucers opened, and two men emerged. They >were about 170 cm (5 ft. 7 in.) tall, and wore dark blue flying >suits." >(Source: CSI of New York sightings card file). >But that case is much more spectacular. >See: >http://magonia.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ >MAGONIA Supplement #38 >"Moon Roof Optional" >Martin Kottmeyer >If you read that article you will discover that there are some >doubts about if the case was known before or after Adamski's >contact tale. >Richard, can you give us the date of that "Point de Vue" >article, and the name of its author? Luis, Since you are not a subscriber to my Journal of UFO History, I would like to know how you obtained this information. Is
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 28 The Heresy Of The Unified Theory Of UFOs From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:12:55 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:11:13 -0400 Subject: The Heresy Of The Unified Theory Of UFOs New web pages for general discussion. The Heresy of the Unified Theory of UFO's and E.T's. Notes from extended 'tongue in cheek' cursory debates with colsweb; http://www.colsweb.com/The_Heresy_of_the_Unified_Theory_of_UFOs.htm with supporting accompanying page of 600 Million years old Humans. Extracts from; Strange Relics From The Depths Of The Earth by J.R. Jochmans; http://www.colsweb.com/600_Million_years_old_Humans.htm New page also 'in the writing' and will appear complete soon; Discussions of the ExtraCosmos God, recycles of the Universe and theoretical proof of the existence of its Creator ET - 'The unified theory of everything and all that'. http://www.colsweb.com/The_unified_theory_of_everything_and_all_that.htm Yes you guessed it! All inspired by the newish film 'Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy' with an alternative approach :-)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Filer's Files #40 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:56:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 05:27:19 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #40 - 2005 Filer's Files #40--2005 George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International September 28, 2005, Web: www.georgefiler.com ET on six new TV shows Filer's Files this week discusses: Ways to defeat hurricanes with weather control, Mars photos show many changes on the surface, More indications of life on Mars, Astronaut Edgar Mitchell says we have visitors. Some UFOs may belong to US, and Elvis Presley saw UFOs. Reports of sightings from Arizona, California, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Nevada, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Utah, and Washington. Sightings were reported in Australia, Canada, Mexico, and the UK. Defeat hurricanes with weather control As I write this article another major hurricane has hit the US and I suggest these storms can be defeated or diminished before they cause major destruction. For example, fog can be dissipated over airports with weather modification techniques. There are many possibilities for effective action against hurricanes that should be studied. The sun and surface of the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf of Mexico provides energy and heat to the storms. I suggest there may be methods to cut this heat. For example, large numbers of large aircraft spraying silver iodide, ice crystals, coal dust or heat absorbing chemicals above the hurricane that might cut the heat within the storm. Most chemicals would eventually fall to the surface after penetrating the storm and may still be effective. Tests could be conducted above hurricanes far out at sea in the Atlantic Ocean so not to accidentally intensify the storm. The U.S. government conducted hurricane research between 1962 and 1983 in a project called 'Stormfury' as planes seeded clouds surrounding a hurricane's eye wall with silver iodide. The seeding was supposed to alter the storm's eye and decreased wind speeds by 10 to 30 percent in four hurricanes, but it couldn't be determined whether it was due to human intervention or nature. Although, the results were ambiguous and the program was discontinued its time to start testing again due to increased severity of the storms. Larger Air Force tankers and cargo aircraft are now available such as C-5s, and C-117 aircraft could be flown above the storm creating significant contrails. The contrails create a fog composed of ice crystals that would tend to cool the hurricane. The cost could be deferred by insurance companies who would save millions in claims. Dragging large icebergs into hurricane paths would cool the sea. Large satellites could also be designed to blot out the sun over the path of a hurricane cooling the ocean and the tops of the storm. A fairly small clean nuclear explosion might also dissipate a storm before it gains strength, while it is still over the Atlantic Ocean. Obviously, this solution may not be feasible. Pumps might be situated to push the cold deep water to the surface in the path of a hurricane. Astronaut Mitchell: We've had visitors Last year, the sixth man to walk on the moon Astronaut Edgar Mitchell told us "A few insiders know the truth... and are studying the bodies that have been discovered," said Mitchell. He landed on the moon with Alan B. Shepard, in Apollo 14. Editor's Note. During the Disclosure Project I had the opportunity to spend some time alone with Edgar. He told me, the real secret is in the Dead Sea Scrolls. I had read some of the scrolls, I said are you referring to the Sons of light and the Sons of Darkness." He shook his head yes. He was quoted in the St. Petersburg Times by Staff Writer by Waveney Ann Moore, The aliens have landed. Thus, declared Apollo 14 on Saturday to more than 200 admirers. A few insiders know the truth, the insiders stopped briefing presidents about extraterrestrials after President Kennedy. Published February 18, 2004 Mars Orbiter Spots Changes on Planet NASA has released new images that show the Martian surface has undergone dramatic changes in the last few years with the appearance of new gullies and fresh boulder tracks. The image on the left was taken in July 2002, while the one on the right was taken almost three years later in April 2005. The photos, taken by the orbiting Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft, suggest that the Red Planet is much more active than previously thought. The spacecraft, in its ninth year in orbit, spotted two fresh gullies on a Martian sand dune that were not present in 2002. Scientists think the gullies might have formed when frozen carbon dioxide trapped by windblown sand vaporized, releasing gas that allowed the sand to flow freely. The spacecraft also took images of boulder tracks at another site that were not there two years ago. The tracks were probably caused by dozens of boulders rolling down a slope from strong wind or a quake, scientists said. Researchers also noted that impact craters forming since the 1970's suggest that crater-formation is a slow process, occurring at one-fifth the pace previously thought. The pace is important because it is used to estimate the age of Martian surfaces, said Michael Malin, principal investigator of the camera aboard the spacecraft. The planet may be undergoing a climate change, according to images that show a shrinking of carbon dioxide deposits near the South Pole. For the last three Martian summers, the deposits have shrunk from the previous year. The Mars Global Surveyor was launched in 1996 and entered orbit a year later. The project is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Thanks to Pointman 7, Charles E. Ratliff, 1SG HHC, 250th Signal Battalion OIF III, FOB Danger Tikrit, Iraq APO AE 09393 Editor's Note: As an intelligence officer for the Air Force, I frequently analyzed aerial photography. It is my opinion that the photographs show liquid water cutting valleys in the soil similar to water on earth. Temperatures reach almost 90 degrees during summer months melting the water beneath the surface and creating erosion. Mars can be seen in the after midnight in the Eastern sky a large red planet. Mars sea biscuit shows life Sir Charles W. Shults III, of Xenotech Research writes, "The most important point in all this research is to establish that there is liquid water on Mars today. This can be done by presenting the evidence in the images along with terrestrial images that correspond to the features seen. There is water, ice, mud, geysers, sinkholes, wash areas, and soil erosion features all over the surface. NASA's own photos show erosion and various types of life similar to earth such this sea biscuit with an imprint identical to the pattern of a starfish. This might also be an urchin, as some terrestrial urchins also have this star pattern on them. Evidence of life exists on Mars. See: http://www.xenotechresearch.com/mk507a.htm Compare to this image of the pincushion sea urchin on Earth. The NASA photo is at: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/m/507/1M173191393EF F55W4P2956M2M1.HTML. Microscopic imager non-linearized full frame EDR acquired on Sol 507 of Opportunity's mission to Meridiani Planum at 12:19:04 Mars local solar time NASA/JPL/Cornell/USGS Elvis Presley UFO encounter in the 1950's According to Michael Luckman, "The home where Elvis was born in Tupelo, Mississippi, was visited by a strange blue light when the King of Rock 'n' Roll entered this world." Elvis told his friends, "I'm not of this world." He had several UFO sightings that he describes. Elvis says, "We were away from the camp fire (in the desert) and we saw this light in the sky movin' weird, you know not like a plane or anything like it. And it was different looking than a plane, it got brighter and was comin' closer. Hell, it was way up there but we could see it on account of the moon and the way it was lit up. It was cigar-shaped, oblong and rounded and had some window portholes on one end and had lights along the bottom, but the damn thing had no wings, no means of a bein' up there at all that we could see." Elvis continued, "Well we were watching it and the guys at camp started hollerin' cause they all saw it too. And then we all ran to each other and got quiet when we heard the sound it made=97it was like electricity buzzing and metallic sound, not like any engine we ever heard and then it got kinda over us, still high, mind you, but up there over us. Our hair began to prickle, it stood up on my arms and on my head and I got this weird feeling like I was about to float any minute." Thanks to Michael C. Luckman "Alien Rock'n'Roll Exterrestrial Connection." California a Bright Orb ALTA LOMA--Full Description of event/sighting: My husband and I were in the spa, about 9:30 PM, on September 5, 2005. Facing north, we often watch shooting stars and relax at night. I looked up and east and noticed what looked like a bright star too low above the trees. I ask my husband to observe as it moved very slowly south and up, toward the sky with a red flicker. I got out my camcorder and recorded it but it would just take the bright circle. Then, I got out my professional Cannon Eos 1ds Mark 11 and put it on a tripod and started to take pictures. I captured four orbs plus stars at 12:30 AM. It clearly photographed completely different than the other stars, since it had a bright yellow color with a red ring around it. In one image it seems to have a trail. Thanks to Brian Vike Georgia saucer NEWNAN--Ralph O. Howard, Jr. ASD-GA MUFON reports that at 7:44 PM, on September 17, 2005, the witness observed a dark object with sharply-defined edges moving slowly across his field of view as he sat in his car at a stoplight. "The object was in the "1 o'clock high" position, maybe 2,000 feet up moving from right to left. At first it was an oblong or stubby cigar shape, then it moved and assumed the classic round, circular saucer shape. It was very dark, and he could discern no other patterns, details, or lights. It did not leave a trail nor did it make any noise. It tilted to another angle, and I think I saw two short stubby fins. Witness is a 43-year old degreed professional, a computer support contractor who works for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in metro Atlanta. Thanks to Ralph O. Howard, Jr Georgia's ASD Indiana object seemed to be round in shape PERU--This was captured on September 17, 2005, around 8:15 PM. The object was apparently round from what I can tell. The color seems to be a bluish, whitish in color. I was standing at the back door with cam in hand waiting to see if I would see anything that night and wham, there it was right above my house. At first I thought it was a plane, then, it took me a second or two to figure that it was not a plane. So, I captured it, then, it seemed to just disappear. Thanks to Brian Vike. Footage is c. 2005 by Rudy D. See video at: "ttp://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D32 39 Kansas photos GALENA--After looking at over fifty pictures of this disk, I decided to send you one for an expert opinion. I lightened and clarified the picture a little. I also included a crop shot of the possible craft. This particular shot was taken on September 19, 2005 at 7:09 PM. I was facing west photographing the sunset. As I was photographing, I noticed some kind of tracer or something going towards the direction of the craft, at one point there were three of these things. The disk was in the same location in all pictures, sometimes the cloud-cover revealed the craft. I have many more oddities like this one taken during day and night. Thanks to Naomi Nevada V-shaped black craft LAS VEGAS--At 11:00 PM, I saw a V-shaped descending on August 2005, while watering my lawn. There were five or six lights, but these were a little smaller than stars, and the light more focused. They had come straight down and then they started moving sideways. At this point I started to make out a shape bigger than the stars, because as they moved sideways, I could see other stars in the background disappear and re-appear. I could make out what appeared to be a V-shaped black craft and then watched it move out of sight. I saw it for about 15 seconds as it descend right over the mountains and continued flying right above them. Taking a rough guess I'd say it was about two miles away, and it was gigantic. The craft was really big, 300 perhaps 500 feet in diameter. I heard no sound. I was looking south, and it was traveling in a western direction and descending at 500 mph plus. The craft was ten times larger than commercial jets. It looked V-shaped, very black, and the lights looked as though they were on the bottom of the craft. A map showing the flight path of the craft can be viewed at: "http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D3 237 New Hampshire round flying UFO NEWPORT--My grandson and I were having lunch on August 27, 2005, at 11:15 AM, on the porch of the Richards Library. I was looking for rain clouds since it was hot and noticed a round flying object in the sky. I thought it was a hovering dark, dark, gray, almost black disk high in the sky. It went out of my sight, behind a tree on the commons and I waited for it to come out the other side, but it disappeared. Thanks to the MUFON Case Management System."ttp://www.mufon.com/. New Jersey same UFO two days in a row PITTSGROVE, SALEM =96 The witness reports seeing similar UFOs two days in a row starting on September 5, 2005. Thanks to the MUFON Case Management System. New York City three red objects BROOKLYN--At 3:50 PM, on September 18, 2005, I stepped outside onto the back porch with my newly acquired 8 x Bushnell binoculars and I saw a close up of the same object I saw ten minutes before. I noticed the three red objects in my photo last week. Holding my binoculars up - it exhibited the same behavior - heading southeast and it seemed to change shape. It changed from a bright white circle into a thin red stick type object. It did this five times a minute with a lava lamp type movement. Its movement was quite slow and I was able to track it with my binoculars quite easily. I'm leaning towards some kind of manmade object - but who knows? Thanks to Peter Davenport North Carolina field team observations There was continuing orb activity in central North Carolina on September 22, 2005. The Carolina Group Research Project field team again photographed orb images in the immediate vicinity of power lines. As in earlier cases, randomness would not allow for this to occur at such a high rate. Photographs taken around power lines once again suggest that orbs are attracted to them. Some of these orb type photos as well as lights, and UFOs are available in a free CD by obtaining a subscription to these files. Thanks to Alan Caviness Ohio =96 UFOs continue to be filmed AKRON--Amy reports, "Here is a recent photo taken at the race track with my Canon digital camera and the images before and after are normal. I took this photo of a friend and there are strange lights or interference. I took this video on September 25, 2005, about 3 PM. The first UFO comes from behind the trees and zooms straight up, about ten minutes later the 2nd one comes from behind the trees and zooms to the left. These are still images from a Sharp digital camcorder. Thanks to Amy McCrary. FOSTORIA =96 George Ritter daily in good weather takes video of unusual UFOs in his country setting. This image is a still from his video taken on September 25, 2005. Oregon UFO five repetitions of a light CAPE MEARES--We were on the beach at about 9 PM, on Saturday, September 17, 2005, we were watching the western sky shortly after sunset, and two of us saw four, perhaps five repetitions of a light show. We saw a row (once two separate rows) of very bright yellow-orange lights, large rectangular 'panels' of light perhaps 4 times as tall as they were wide, in a regular horizontal row. One of these phenomena involved two rows of lights next to each other, but not in the same-dimensional plane--as if there were two objects giving off light that were not level with each other. The number of 'light panels' we saw at any given time varied from three to seven. When we saw seven there was a dark space between each light like they were slowly rotating out of sight on the right hand edge. The lights were four miles over the ocean with no other lights visible. The lights were very bright light like looking through ports into a blast furnace, for 20 to 30 seconds, and they did not move. The second set of lights was WNW or so, then the two sets of lights next to each other. One light due west was down closer to the surface of the water. From one sighting to the next, the lights appeared in a different part of the sky, after a 30 second to one minute pause. The lights didn't move at all when they were on during six minutes and then stopped. Thanks to Brian Vike Utah airplane-like shape hovering in sky WEST JORDAN--I was driving home on September 14, 2005, and saw what looked like an airplane at 12:15 PM, but it was very low to the ground. I thought it was kind of weird but I kept driving and as it flew closer, it was a very shiny, silver color. It had a weird shape with two wings like an airplane, but with round wings right next to the other ones. It was just hovering in the sky very close to the ground but I couldn't see very well because it was right beneath the sun. There were people pulled over to the side of the road looking up at it. I kept driving, but watching it in my rear-view mirror. As I was looking at it, it started to move horizontally to the west very slowly, and then it started moving vertical and I lost site of it through some trees. Thanks to Brian Wisconsin four bright orange lights LAKE GENEVA--I was at work at 8 PM, on September 18, 2005, when I was called outside by three customers to see four bright orange lights in the sky. They stayed pretty steady and spread out slightly moving. After about ten minutes they all began moving toward each other and met up directly overhead within one minute. Once together they flew one by one higher and higher until they were out of sight. It took five minutes until the forth one went up and was gone. My co-workers said the same thing happened the night before. Both nights were perfectly clear and they were seen at 9 PM, then back around midnight. Australia photos TULLY--Ross sent me more images of UFOs captured on film in recent months. The three lights appear to depict a flying triangle. Ross is a blacksmith in north Queensland, Australia, near Atherton Tablelands that is a well known place in history for UFOs. It is just up the road from 'Tully' a place you will find that was one of the first ever to documented crop circles. Ross states, "Almost every day for the last five years I've witnessed UFOs flying over our area. Thanks to Ross Canada strange UFOs Kennedy Lake, B.C.--Two friends saw a bright, white, round object several times wider than the brightest object in the sky. A second light flashed intermittently white and lime green flashing about each five seconds for two seconds per flash on the 14th or 15th of August at 3:20 a.m. I am a trained military observer having been in the 748th Communications Troop in the Armed Forces of Canada. This was not the usual aircraft flashing green starboard light, as it was lime green, and moved like it was suspended below the above much brighter white object. The white object moved in a shallow U shaped arc dipping downward then upward. About twenty seconds and three flashes of the lower object after we started to watch it, it grew much brighter. We were 30 km from the nearest light source or town of Ucluelet. The light panned over the beach we were camped on and illuminated the entire North shore of the lake. We both were very excited and later somewhat frightened. The objects continued in a slow arc upward and then sped away in a northeasterly arc increasing to extremely high speed and disappeared after 45-60 seconds. The lower object was seen to flash about seven to eight times and followed the identical arc. We were frightened and had a hard time falling asleep. I awoke asking what the hell did we see last night and realized we are not the most intelligent species here in the Universe. We told many people and someone came to the beach and said it had been on CNN and was reported in Port Alberni. My friend became very aggressive and I was not acting like myself either. There was a burn on my right inside calf and my friend had several unexplained marks on his legs. It has been two months and my leg hasn't healed completely. Other injuries I have gotten in the bush were worse but healed in less than two weeks. Thanks to Brian Vike OSHAWA, ONTARIO =96 Paul Shishis writes, The black helicopter seen and photographed while driving home from the Dentist on the Higyhway 401 east and the Don Valley Parkway at 6:10 PM on September 26, 2005. If blackie is watching me, who's watching blackie? Note the large half circle above blackie and two other objects flying formation behind". Thanks to Paul Shishis. COMOX, B.C..--A UFO or an Orb was seen over Canadian Forces Base Comox on September 11, 2005, at 5:30 PM. The witness was observing some cloud manipulations in the sky over the military base. My eyes wandered over to a hole which was forming in a set of clouds and noticed a small whitish object that was brighter than the surrounding clouds which themselves were rippled with electromagnetic waves. At first, I figured it was a plane, but it wasn't long before I realized it was spherical in nature and had no wings. It came right out of a hole in the cloud. I quickly grabbed my camera which I had nearby and pointed the camera at the object and took a photo. I looked for the object with the naked eye but it was no longer visible to me. I examined the photo on my PC that appeared as a tiny dot. I saturated the contrast a bit and zoomed in, so it isn't very clear. This looks like the UFO caught on video tape in Port Alberni and ran on the news a few weeks ago just down the island from me. The Comox Valley area is seeing a literal epidemic of chemtrail spraying, electroscalar magnetic activity and odd shaped clouds. Sometimes, I can watch them fiddle and move the clouds around before my very eyes. Thanks to Brian Vike. Photos can be viewed at: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D32 19 MANITOULIN ISLAND, ONTARIO--On Thursday, September 15, 2005, about 8:45 PM, we were sitting around a small fire in my back yard. We saw an object moving twice as fast as a normal plane or jet. There were no flashing lights on it anywhere. We observed a jet going over flying half the speed with all its flashing lights visible. GOLDSTREAM PROVINCIAL PARK--On September 22, 2005, I was laying in bed at 2:30 AM, looking out the sliding door when I saw an airplane come from behind the trees, and then I noticed a white orb following it. I immediately woke my husband to look. The plane had typical flashing lights but the orb was larger and much brighter and it did not flash. Twice it seemed to go slightly faster than the plane, but seemed to keep the same distance between the plane and itself. We watched it follow the plane until it was out of sight. We look at the sky often as we are astronomy buffs and this was not anything normal. The weather was clear with no wind and the orb was very bright and white. The Vike Audio Reports are the actual eye witness accounts of witness sightings. There are 54 reports on the CD in mp3 format and these reports come from Canada, US, and other parts of the world. The Vike Report (audio clip collection) can be found at: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D2595 Germany =96 Video battle of two spheroids On February 5, 2005, at 11:38 AM, I was testing the zoom on my new video camera and saw a plane in the clear sky. I was just looking in the camera monitor and not recording when I saw a big thing in the sky, just above my house. It looked like a big egg, but very shiny like gold and was very hard on the eyes because of its high light reflection. Then I saw another higher flying object. The two appeared to be fighting or playing with each other, so I started filming. Since then, I have watched the video many times, and it shows a battle of two spheroids, with the darker spheroid after the light one. HBCC UFO Research Note: When I received the footage and watched it. The object appears out of no where, and then disappears just as fast Video clip - Battle of two spheroids (Excellent Clear Footage) =A9 2005 Valuca See: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews =3Darticle =3D3235 MEXICO CITY--On Tuesday, September 13, 2005, "a major UFO sighting took place just minutes after an official event involving President Vicente A. Fox." According to Gerardo Martinez Fernandez, a reporter for Grupo Imagen, only a few minutes prior to President Fox's arrival, many witnesses were able to see a shiny spherical object in the sky. A witness explained that the UFO resembled 'a very shiny star.' Martinez Fernandez reported, " I covered an event involving President Fox on the Avenida Coyoacan and was amazed to see many people directing their attention upward. Upon getting out of the vehicle, I was told that they were watching an unidentified flying object." Personally, I didn't get to see it, but Jesus Cardenas of Televisa told me that his cameraman had gotten it on film." Thanks to Scott Corrales MERIDA, YUCATAN--Photographs were taken by Emilio Cetz Aguiar, director of the S.I.R.I.O. with a Canon PowerShot G2 digital camera on August 15, 2005 The witness says that an intensely bright light drew his attention around 8 PM. Emilio Cetz has produced considerable UFO evidence. Thanks to Ana Luisa Cid www.analuisacid.com.mx Translation: =A9 2005. S. Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology Turkey's 2nd and 3rd UFO Museum open CAPPADOCIA--The second UFO Museum is located in Turkey's most important and tourist region of Nevsehir, and was opened on May 2005. The museum holds five thousand collections on photos, information, documents and publications in both English and Turkish. The Museum consists of five underground carved main galleries at locations where frequent UFO sightings take place. The Cappadocia Museum was formed with the support and data archives obtained from the Istanbul Sirius International UFO Museum. The museum houses official government documents and reports of individuals who have sightings along with hundreds of photos. DENIZLI GAZ SMSEK--The Governor of Denizli in a special ceremony on July 28, 2005, officially opened the new Denizli International UFO Museum with many guests and members of the press attending. Various congressman, including the Republican People's Party Mustafa Gazalci. and Mr. Haktan Akdogan chairman of the Sirius UFO Research were present at the gala affair. The government and the citizens of Turkey take UFOs very seriously. The new conference hall seats 120 people where documentaries on UFOs, aliens and space are shown. Thanks to the Sirius International UFO Museum www.siriusufo.org, "X" MAgazine "UFO Reality" TV. Show 90- 212- 252 86 Roswell UFO Museum is the biggest tourist attraction in the state of New Mexico. Six new ET Shows and two new aliens? Two aliens from the new show "Invasion Played by William Fichner and Kari Matchett c.2005 Jesse Grant/WireImage.com Reporters have called recently asking why the television industry has launched six new extraterrestrial visitors TV shows this year. I explained that half the people in the country have seen UFOs and have interest, therefore the shows like 'Threshold,' 'Invasion,' NBC's 'Fathom,' and The WB's 'Supernatural', are likely to be popular. Millions of people check UFO websites, and see videos and photos that are being taken every day. There is a natural curiosity about the unknown and people will watch good shows like the "X Files." Millions also believe in guardian angels that appear to have some connection to UFOs and we are all looking for someone to straighten things out on this world. The producers of the shows are aware that UFO web sites are one of the most popular attractions on the Internet. Interest in the subject is increasing with more scientists, military, intelligence and aviation enthusiasts asking to receive these Filer's Files. UFO Defense Tactics: Weather Shield to Chemtrails by A.K. Johnstone. "Finally a book that answers the hard questions about UFOs" according to French Amazon; Science Daily.com designates UFO Defense Tactics a collectible. Chosen as one of ten best UFO books in 2002 by Anomalous Book List, it is available at amazon.com, barnes&noble.com, Sales.nul or 1-800- 938-114. I personally highly recommend this book. George Filer REAL ESTATE Relocation Help! Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help you relocate, buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at: Majorstar.nul MUFON UFO JOURNAL--For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO see http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ.nul Filer's Files is copyrighted 2005 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Subscribe to Filer's Files to receive CD So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. Help solve the mysteries of the universe. We have been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Your dollars do make a difference! 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Is the Universe a Massive Supercomputer? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 05:50:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 05:50:21 -0400 Subject: Is the Universe a Massive Supercomputer? Source: The Hindu - India's National Newspaper http://tinyurl.com/aggaq Tuesday, Oct 28, 2003 Digital Universe The latest thinking that is doing rounds in scientific circles is whether the universe is a computer. The legendary Konrad Zuse, a German scientist who built the first programmable computer, was also the first to suggest in 1967 that the entire universe is being computed on a computer, possibly a cellular automaton. He referred to this as Rechnender Raun (computing cosmos or computing space), which in fact started the field of "Digital Physics." The tremendous advances made in computer science and technology during the last couple of decades have also made a sea change in the quality of our thought process. What has been done manually before the advent of modern computer technology can now be done unmanned more efficiently and rapidly by the use of a computer. Nature has always been a wonder and a source of inspiration for intellectual activity to man. Apart from the physical components of the universe, there are the natural phenomena and a whole variety of rules and mechanisms that are responsible for the entire universe to function as a single system. The fact that phenomena like natural cycles, planetary movements and a host of others occur with clockwork precision and accuracy leads to the obvious conclusion that our universe is a programmed system. Nothing happens in this universe in an arbitrary manner but only according to certain eternal laws and that is why we are able to formulate principles based on our observations that can reflect the natural order. Every aspect of the universe is mathematically describable. We find sequences in every natural phenomenon, be it a chemical, physical or biological reaction or the development of a plant or an animal from the zygote, to cite but a few. All these are proofs of the demonstrations of execution of programmes existing in nature. Further, we also know that every organism has a programme stored in its cells. Brain is a computer and it has memory. A living cell can be likened to a biochip. The first ever proposal of a computer model of the universe was made in my book The Divine Expert System published in 1998. A tremendous boost in the computer concept of the universe has occurred since then particularly following the publication of a research paper in the journal Physical Review Letters by Professor Seth Lloyd of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, USA, in 2002. Lloyd considers every process or every change that takes place in the universe as a kind of computation. If the universe is treated as a computer, it would have the computer power to do 10,120 logical operations. Commenting on the computer concept of the universe in the June 3, 2003 issue of Nature, Philip Ball observed, "... Lloyd has a reputation as a challenging lateral thinker, especially in information theory. Two years ago, he calculated the physical limits to computation; the constraints that physical laws place on the power of, say, a laptop-sized computer. Now he's just doing the same for a universe sized computer." Close on the heels of the publication of Lloyd's paper, Stephen Wolfram proposes in his book A New Kind of Science published in 2002 by Wolfram Media Inc., USA, that all of reality might result from a kind of algorithm, like a computer program being enacted again and again on the underlying building blocks of space and matter. He argues that the whole universe can be viewed as one huge cellular automaton. Wolfram is a distinguished computer scientist with many accomplishments under his belt including the development of the famous software Mathematica. The basic change The basic change that the computer concept of the universe brings into our present knowledge of the universe and cosmology is that it is the patterns of information rather than matter and energy per se that represent the fundamental units of reality. Information theory says that every physical system from a glass of water to a microchip holds 1s and 0s in the states of its component particles. Changes in those states could be treated as "computation" just as our machine computes by changing the information in its memory. The connection between information science and physical processes appears once the events are considered on the quantum scale. According to Lloyd, the operations calculation from information theory and the bits calculation from quantum gravity yielded equivalent results suggesting that there is a connection out there between quantum gravity and computation. The universe's program could be thought of as the primordial quantum fluctuations that seed the formation of the galaxies. Where are all these concepts leading to? Jurgen Schmidhuber of Dalle Molle Institute for Artificial Intelligence (IDSIA), Switzerland, proposes an algorithmic theory of everything. He assumes: "a long time ago, the Great Programmer wrote a program that runs all possible universes on His Big Computer... Each universe evolves on a discrete time scale... Any universe's state at a given time is describable by a finite number of bits." We are therefore living in a giant quantum computer. If that were the case, the material science comprising the traditional physics and chemistry, as well as biology will undergo a dramatic quantum revolution. The universe as a whole will be conceived as a digital phenomenon and the science of universe will be re-written in the form of algorithm =97 in the language of natural computer. That would exactly be the shape of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 UFOs In Southern Baja California From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:07:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:23:06 -0400 Subject: UFOs In Southern Baja California INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology September 27, 2005 Date: September 24, 2005 Source: "El Sudcaliforniano" (newspaper) http://www.elsudcaliforniano.com.mx/default.asp UFOs IN SOUTHERN BAJA CALIFORNIA SANTA ROSALIA, B.C.S - On Thursday night we saw something new and strange that amazed this reporter. The time was 8:30 pm when a plate-shaped luminous object appeared over Sierra de la Reforma, spinning at high speed and heading east from the western reaches of the Gulf of California toward the location known as Las Tres Virgenes. It subsequently vanished as if a large noiseless explosion had occured. It produced a large, fog- like cloud which covered part of the mountain range in a matter of minutes, which reached this port before dispersing. This luminous object and its colored lights moved noiselessly, leaving behind a wake similar to that of a comet. It is similar to some cases that have taken place in other countries and have been presented on TV by journalist Jaime Maussan, who speaks of them as extraterrestrial spacecraft. According to several local witnesses, this is not the first time that [the object] has been seen in the vicinity of ranches adjacent to the Las Virgenes volcano, Santa Rosalia and San Jose de Magdalena. Even some of the parties interviewed after the event agree that they have seen it on other occasions in locations other than the areas indicated. Yesterday morning, some residents of this port claimed having seen the same phenomenon described by this reporter; even the Sonora radio station made reference to phone calls received from eyewitnesses claimg to have seen a strange light crossing the skies, coinciding with the characteristics and the time at which the UFO sighting took place, causing controversy in Santa Rosal=EDa and its environs. In the photos taken by this reporter yesterday it was possible to make out the colors and strange shape of the luminous wake left behind by the object. It was not possible to capture the saucer's image through the lens -- this was possibly due to its intense light and speed. What could well have been an alien spacecraft, by mutual agreement of those of us who saw it, occurred over a region to the north of this port city, which can easily observed from the higher end of the town. According to our experience, and from what we have seen on television for years, the object was very similar to the vessels that argue for the presence of beings from elsewhere in the universe -- a fact that our minds struggle against accepting until a sighting occurs, like the one experienced by this reporter, and of which we have proof. (eyewitness report by Nicolas Chaidez) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:15:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:24:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Lehmberg >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:38:04 -0400 >Subject: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO >This may or may not have been discussed already and I don't have >time to peruse all the back mail to find out. However, I just >saw a program on the science channel which verifies the UFO >reported seen by Armstrong and Aldrin on their Apollo 11 flight >to the moon as legitimate and unsolved. (at least to the date of >the filming.) >If you are interested, click below to read about it. If you >haven't seen it, you may be able to still catch the program. >I've seen it played twice on the Science Channel (Cable #170 in >the NY area) >http://www.cohenufo.org/websitedoc.htm#aldrinarmstrongufo >Jim Oberg, are you aware of this? Of course he knows, Jerry, but remember, he has to align himself with the klasskurtxian code exposed by both Friedman and Maccabee. What the aggregate public doesn't know, don't tell
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:21:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:28:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Chichikov >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:10:19 -0500 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained <snip> >New Testament and Gnostic accounts of Jesus' appearance after >His alleged (supposed) resurrection resemble the kinds of >between incorporeality and tangibility (corporeality) that >abduction accounts mimic. >That is, Jesus was neither here nor there but in an altered >state of being that doesn't fit the physical laws of nature as >we know them. <snip> I wish some of you guys would actually read the gospels, and perhaps even some patristic and contemporary commentaries on them - before stating the Jesus as Space Brother hypothesis. Try C. S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, for instance. The content of the gospels is purely religious and revelatory. There is nothing directly political, sociological, scientific, or cosmological in them. As to the reality of the Resurrection, in a documentary sense, see 1 Corinthians 15, 1 - 8 and in the faith and experiential sense any faithful Christian. The same goes for the Fatima event, the content of which is so intensely and authentically Catholic, that if Fatima was a light show put on by aliens, the aliens must be Catholics.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:38:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:25:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reason >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:59:13 +0100 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained Hello John Sorry for interrupting here, but irrespective of what the abduction data may show, there are some purely psychological issues to address here. >But sleep paralysis does explain _some_ abduction reports, in >the same way that *some* UFO reports can be explained by >mundane factors, and research can concentrate on the >unexplained cases. But there seems to be the general assumption >that there are _no_ explained abduction cases. I think it depends very much what you mean by explain. Some abduction reports may be "explained" by sleep paralysis, in the same way that biology may be "explained" by Intelligent Design. Unfortunately these "explanations" are not scientifically satisfactory. The problem is, sleep paralysis by itself doesn't explain anything - to arrive at an explanation one has to add additional speculative mechanisms involving REM-related hallucinations and "false memory". And while the sleep paralysis component is fairly straightforward, the other two components are anything but. Neither makes any clear predictions about the phenomenology of abductions, but both are indefinitely malleable after the fact - they predict everything and nothing, and as a result explain nothing. One might as well attribute the phenomena to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Alberta Base For UFOs [was: Memory Without Klass] From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:35:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:29:05 -0400 Subject: Alberta Base For UFOs [was: Memory Without Klass] >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:25:24 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass <snip> >I have material (documents, notes from people interviewed, etc.) >that claim contact was made with the occupants of these two >mysterious orbiting "meteoroids" and that the Canadian >Government allocated a military airbase in Alberta as the place >where these ETs could land without risk of attack or capture. Wow! Sure would like to see these! Got a scanned version? Was this event just a contactee claim that was officially documented? >There is a still classified report, 'Project Y', from 1952 that >I obtained and gave to Friedman at the start of the conference >which suggest that some UFOs at not from out of this world but >are our own craft.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Intelligent Design - Miller From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:51:18 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:30:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligent Design - Miller >From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:11:00 -0700 >Subject: Intelligent Design >The trial underway in Harrisburg, for including "Intelligent >Design" within the Dover Area school system, deserves our >attention. >From reading a recent AP article by a Martha Raffaele, I see >that the subject is being presented in a manner that does not >bring in creationist falsehoods associated with Old Testament >stories. Rather, "Intelligent design holds that Darwin's >theory of natural selection over time cannot fully explain >the origin of life or the emergence of highly complex life >forms. It implies that life on Earth was the product of an >unidentified intelligent force." And, "This case is about >free inquiry in education, not about a religious agenda." >This agrees, or does not necessarily disagree, with many of > the implications of the UFO phenomenon. >It comes close to the way ufology itself might present a >similar case, for teaching about the UFO phenomenon within >school systems. It allows in the idea that unidentified >intelligences could have modified evolution here and there, >including that of modern man, and it could open up for >discussion topics within books like "Forbidden Archaeology" >by Cremo & Thompson, and "Fingerprints of the Gods" by >Hancock. >I think this trial and its resulting publicity will help >ufology more than harm it, even though the opposition might, >e.g., raise the topic of Raelians and their views in attempts >to discredit it. Jim
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Pandora's Box - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:19:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:32:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Pandora's Box - Reynolds >From: Joe Faccenda uforth.nul >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:56:09 EDT >Subject: Pandora's Box >In assessing the advances in ufology, or perhaps the lack of it, >there does come a point where a reassessment of what exactly >Ufologist's goals are? >Our Governments to open up its ufo files? >A UFO to land on the White House lawn? >Or is it just a a desire to know that you were right all along, >that ufos are real, and aliens are visiting this world. >Each and every question is so loaded with responsibility I >sometimes wonder if we in the UFO community have thought through >the consequences. >We want the truth, fine, but can we handle the truth? <snip> >Disclosure would trigger a chain event that would run right >across the pillars, feeble as they are, of our society. >Government collapse, world-wide financial collapse, and perhaps >world-wide religious upheaval. <snip> Joe Faccenda: Do you really think earthlings would panic if a UFO landed and alien beings stepped forth? Most humans accept, at some level, unconscious and otherwise, that we are not alone in the Universe. A landing would only confrim that; the excitement of such an event diminishing shortly thereafter while we all go back to our major concerns: gas prices, reality TV, and how much beer is in the fridge. The worldwide panic/Orson Welles-like debacle is shopworn. What happened in 1938 has no bearing on what would happen
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:24:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:34:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:22:10 -0400 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:28:06 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace ><snip> >>If aliens are visiting, an arguable point despite the >>circumstantial evidence, their mission has been inscrutable to >>everyone, even the governments you think are in the know. >>One other point: if Eisenhower met with an alien delegation in >>1954 as you state, it sure didn't seem to disrupt his golf >>game(s). >>I'd think such a meeting would change one's existential modus. >I believe that a biography of Jackie Gleason tells the story of >his playing golf with (then) President Nixon in Florida where >they had summer homes, and they discussed Jackie's serious >interest in UFOs. Nixon then allegedly took Gleason to seen an >alien craft at a local Air Base, and the only person he told of >this trip was his wife (who wrote the biolgraphy). Maybe the >game of Golf has some significance in the UFO field.....<g> Steve:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:31:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:35:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:22:10 -0400 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:28:06 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >I believe that a biography of Jackie Gleason tells the story of >his playing golf with (then) President Nixon in Florida where >they had summer homes, and they discussed Jackie's serious >interest in UFOs. Nixon then allegedly took Gleason to seen an >alien craft at a local Air Base, and the only person he told of >this trip was his wife (who wrote the biolgraphy). Maybe the >game of Golf has some significance in the UFO field.....<g> This was Gleason's second wife. He was married three times. Gleason was a notorious philanderer, and the biographer I consulted on the matter some years ago treated the story as a yarn Gleason concocted to cover an extramarital tryst. Back in the 1980s, asked about it by a CUFOS representative (Gleason was a subscriber to CUFOS' International UFO Reporter), Gleason himself dismissed the story as an effort by his ex-wife to sell a book. (Her book was never published; the story from it surfaced originally in the National Enquirer, back in the day when it was running UFO material.) Either explanation strikes me as more sensible than the UFO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:38:51 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:10:11 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >That's pretty well the bottom line, Ray - except that his >"denial of possibilities" also seems to be based on a ridiculous >science of his own creation, one that has, for instance, >evolution that is not affected by billions of years Hi Eugene, I stated that time isn't the only factor. Just because a planet has billions of years to work on evolution, doesn't mean that life will begin or evolve. There are other factors to consider, such as temperature. >and 'speed >limits' for molecules (which will 'fly apart' or 'lose identity' >when a certain speed is reached). I thought we were past this >crazy 'molecular limit' notion when Ed conceded he >misinterpreted the formula (so I continued to discuss things >with him) but apparently he was only conceding the 11, 400 mph >'speed limit' - he still views the 'molecular limitation' as >valid and effective at some velocity (just not below 17, 000 >mph). I don't know what the speed limit is. Maybe I'm not expressing myself correctly but a space ship traveling a great speed will collide with other molecules. What happens then? >This is despite David's 'billiard ball' analogy which was >designed to show how the _whole_ concept was flawed, not just >the number of 'miles per hour' he had picked. There is _nothing_ >possible outside his 'Earth-evolved monotreme from the AA film' >explanation so it's pointless to try to discuss anything with >him. No it isn't, but these concepts are not clear to me, especially since I'm still tyrying to understand conventional science. Then you tell me that I'm being silly to believe that star travel couldn't happen, and I shouldn't rely on what we know but what is possible. >and when you try to explain to him principles he's confusing or >missing then you're lecturing, sermonizing, side-tracking, or >just plain causing the discussion to "go down hill." Our >discussion has been pretty rational and only "goes down hill" >when Ed gets into it with another one of his innane >contributions. I don't mind looking stupid if I learn something of value. I wouldn't champion the AA if I worried about how I appear to others. >I don't know if he does it on purpose and - like very many >people have said to me off list - his purpose here is to disrupt >rational discussion on UFOs and waste the time of serious UFO >investigators and researchers, And why would I do that? Maybe a few of those "people" would like to confront me directly. >or if he really believes the >ridiculous notions he puts forth here and he's truely this >ignorant and confused. I think the latter more likely but it >doesn't really matter because I'm not wasting anymore of _my_ >time trying to discuss anything with him. Yes, I'm confused and ignorant too, and probably looking for love in all the wrong places, but you could help by reading my article on the crash site and explaining why it isn't convincing to you.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Pandora's Box - Miller From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:49:24 +0100 (BST) Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:40:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Pandora's Box - Miller >From: Joe Faccenda uforth.nul >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:56:09 EDT >Subject: Pandora's Box <snip> >Can we comprehend the enormity of the changes such a >revelation would bring? are we ready to open the box? >In 1938 there was a radio broadcast in the USA of HG Wells >classic 'War the Worlds' Orson Wells who staged this play made >it so convincing that people fled their homes in panic. In >many ways this event put in place the 'mind set' of many of >the decisions that the US Government took when the Roswell >event took place. >Perhaps fearful of another panic is was safer to clamp the lid >on it. >There is no Government on this planet that would admit that it >had ufo proof, it would be political suicide. >The futile attempts of ufologist over the years to extract >this information shown a naivety on our part, as to what >exactly our comprehension of Government is, and our own >comprehension of what we are trying to achieve. >Disclosure would trigger a chain event that would run right >across the pillars, feeble as they are, of our society. >Government collapse, world-wide financial collapse, and >perhaps world-wide religious upheaval. >Are we ready for just such an event? Hi Joe, I just want to say what a genuine pleasure it is to come across another doom mongerer, like myself, who has an imagination and can forsee the consequences of alien contact. Don't forget the suicide factor as well. Those figures will absolutely sky rocket. But, I can tell you from previous experience in bringing up this subject on this List, that, unless there has been a sea change, you will not get much of a reaction. True Ufologists are devoid of any imagination whatsoever and compensate for this by burying themselves in facts. It's easier than coping with life in a developed country. I remember discussing this same subject with Don Ledger a while back. Don is of course a perfectly sound individual with an excellent imagination but the discussion was amusing as I was getting more and more hysterical about what might happen while Don went totally the other way, almost falling off his chair in his laid back attitude about the whole thing. To put it in a nutshell, life on this planet would be forever changed in such a fundamental way that truly very few of us (and I exclude myself) can really envisage what it might be like. In fact, I'm not sure that there's anybody that really knows as I have found the "After Contact" literature and writings on the subject to be devoid of any true depth and errr imagination. So perhaps you and I are wrong. After all, if TV companies were getting complaints in 1969 about why I Love Lucy wasn't being shown because of coverage of the moon landing, than perhaps the both of us are just a couple of hysterical old women who ought to get out a bit more.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:44:06 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Gehrman >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:28:00 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:36:40 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>Maybe I'm not being clear. It's my understanding that light >>evolved into particles, and particles created atoms, and then >>atoms created molecules, and molecules created us. If speed >>reverses this process, then at some point molecules lose their >>identity and become atoms again. What is that limit? I >>understood David's explanation of the plane and the billiard >>balls but at what speed will the plane, billiard balls, and >>players lose lose their identity? Is ther a limit, or is this a >>stupid question? >Ed: Some understanding of classical physics and relativity is in >order. I'll try to simplify things as I understand them. >After years of college physics studies, NOwhere have I ever >heard of light evolving into particles, then into atoms etc. in >those terms. Hi Larry, I've written you off-line and perhaps that's where I should continue this discussion, but at the risk looking more ignorant, are you saying that there isn't a progression from light to molecules and that atoms and molecules were always in existance? >There no 'speed limit' except that of c, the speed of light. I thought that only light and particles could travel at light speed. >Imagine two molecules, water molecules say, speeding past Earth, >and (important!) using Earth as a frame of reference. With that >as a benchmark, lets say the 2 molecules are near the speed of >light. (Never mind how they gained the speed.) >To an observer on Earth, they would have gained mass, and >flattened out "front to back" (i.e. in their direction of >travel). Yes I understand that, now. >Traveling side by side however, each molecule would look >perfectly normal to the other. Earth would look abnormal. OK, I think I understand. >At no point do they 'devolve' into simpler particles, and there >is no reason they should. Within _their_ frame of reference, >there IS no absolute speed... only speeds relative to some >arbitrary benchmark. You could even argue that the two molecules >are standing still while the whole solar system is whizzing >past, and not be entirely wrong. That was one perplexing result >of Einstein's work, one which the general public still has >trouble understanding. It is a very complex notion. >Countless experiments have verified Einstein at every turn. I believe >you.Molecules do not 'come apart' at any special speed, unless they >smash into something... one another perhaps, or the walls of >some container or obstacle. Same goes for atoms. Once again, it >is RELATIVE speeds (collisions) accounting for the energy to rip >molecules etc. apart. But a space ship traveling at high speed would encounter other atoms and molecules. At what speed would these collisions become a problem? Could a spacecraft be shielded from collision with atoms or molecules? >It looks to me like you are thinking in terms of Classical >Physics (not a bad start BTW), where everything in the universe >had an absolute speed, direction, and position, all clocked by a >universal invariant time. >All that went out the window about a century ago, much to the >dismay of the classical physicists back then. All this and much >more is well known and available to anyone willing to learn some >physics. I've been trying to grasp the main concepts, but physicists are not always consistent and there seems to be considerable disagreement in the ranks.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Toronto Symposium Report #01 - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:14:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:47:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Toronto Symposium Report #01 - Velez >Source: The Varsity On-Line >The University of Toronto's Student Newspaper >http://tinyurl.com/9lwz6 >Monday, September 26, 2005 >The Truth Is Out There >By Chris Damdar Hi All, I would like to add a kind of qualifier to my previous comments regarding Mr. Helyer's speech in Toronto last week-end. When I wrote the post I was not attempting to edit Mr. Helyer's speech - after the fact. I think, (I hope,) it was clear that I was expressing my disappointment that Mr. Helyer had not shared some descriptions of the _actual_' UFO reports that crossed his desk when he was the MOD. It seems to me that every time a government official 'steps up' it turns out to be just another tempest in a teapot. A big fuss is always made initially about the 'big-fish' that will be coming forward and then, - nothing. Check it out: Corso publishes a book... it turns out to be a fantastic rewrite of history with himself starring as the hero and main character! Mexico releases material to civilian Jaime Maussan. Nothing more is heard from them. Like they were swallowed by a black hole. Brazil opens it's files, everybody gets excited and then - nothing. Not another word. "Helyer, former MOD to speak in public about UFOs and what comes out of his mouth? Corso! I'm just disappointed as hell that _none_ of these 'official' coming out parties ever lasts more than just one night. I feel so used and dirty... <lol> I just needed to clarify what I meant just in case anybody read something else into it. I can be pretty gruff sometimes, I know. My only excuse is, I'm a native New Yorker and 'attitude' is a cultural/environmental thing with us. It's just the way I express myself. It's my personality. I'm not intending to come off as 'nasty' though. At least I hope not. Especially to Victor Viggiani whose friendship I value very highly. I was doing what everybody does on this List... expressing my opinion.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Memory Without Klass - Harney From: John Harney <magonia.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:25:51 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:51:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Harney >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:07:11 -0500 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:48:59 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>How has this letter just surfaced, and exactly how did Richard >>Dolan get hold of it? I must say I find it very hard to believe >>any such letter was ever written. >It is "very hard to believe" only if one doesn't know Klass or, >worse, has a glossy-eyed romantic view of him (as in the >profoundly silly Fortean Times obit). I have the Fortean Times obituary of Phil Klass to hand and I
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:36:10 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:52:55 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Bourdais >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:01 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Christopher Allan >><cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:15:47 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:28:44 +0200 >>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up ><snip> >>This is simply conspiracy theory gone mad. >CDA et al. >You are exactly right. <snip> >It's madness of a unique ufological kind. I take note of your kind judgements, but I find in them no solid argument to change my mind. I don't think it's madness to suppose that, after the well covered-up case of Roswell, a few similar accidents could have been also hidden, anywhere in the world. By the military of the United States or of other countries. A recent, probable exemple, was Varginha in Brazil, in 1996. The idea that any government would be glad to announce such a discovery sounds pretty ridiculous to me. Another simple point. To find a UFO is one thing, to be able to make a scientific advance with it is quite another, and for my part I don't know if that was achieved or not. Do you understand the difference? About mad conspiracy theories and true believers, I see another kind of believer madness: it is to believe that all the people of Roswell, from rancher Brazel to Colonel Blanchard (not to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Secrecy News -- 09/28/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:56:53 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:54:27 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/28/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 93 September 28, 2005 ** ISOO REPORTS ON AUTOMATIC DECLASSIFICATION PLANS ** A BILL TO TELEVISE SUPREME COURT PROCEEDINGS ** COMMAND AND CONTROL OF DETAINEE OPERATIONS ISOO REPORTS ON AUTOMATIC DECLASSIFICATION PLANS Most executive branch agencies are on track to meet the deadline for automatic declassification of their 25 year old classified documents by December 31, 2006, the Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO) said in a new report submitted to President Bush this week. But "a handful of agencies still remain at risk of not meeting the deadline," ISOO director J. William Leonard wrote. Automatic declassification of historically valuable classified records as they become 25 years old was originally mandated (with certain specified exceptions) by President Clinton in his 1995 executive order 12958. The principle of automatic declassification was also affirmed by President Bush in the 2003 executive order 13292 though he deferred the effective date until the end of next year to permit agencies more time to assess their classified collections and plan for declassification. Now the December 2006 deadline is looming and an estimated 155 million pages of textual records await agency review for declassification, authorized exemption, or referral to another agency. "Any such records not acted upon will be automatically declassified subject to the limitations and conditions set forth in the Order," the ISOO report stated. Properly understood, declassification is not a compromise with national security requirements or a concession to critics. It is an integral part of the national security classification process. As the ISOO report explained, "The classification system... cannot be depended upon to protect today's sensitive national security information unless there is an ongoing process to purge it of yesterday's secrets that no longer require protection." Yet declassification activity has declined steadily over the past several years, while spurious classification appears to be on the rise. The implementation of automatic declassification next year will therefore be a test of the continued viability of the classification system. "It is important to recognize that December 31, 2006, represents not an end unto itself but rather the beginning of integrating automatic declassification into the fabric of the security classification framework." "We have emphasized to each agency head that automatic declassification is an ongoing program that begins, not ends, on December 31, 2006, and thus requires their personal commitment as you called for in the Order," ISOO told the President. See "An Assessment of Declassification in the Executive Branch," Report to the President from the Information Security Oversight Office, September 21, 2005 (transmitted September 26): http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/2005declass.pdf A BILL TO TELEVISE SUPREME COURT PROCEEDINGS Bipartisan legislation introduced in the Senate this week would permit television coverage of open sessions of the U.S. Supreme Court. "The purpose of this legislation is to open the Supreme Court doors so that more Americans can see the process by which the Court reaches critical decisions of law that affect this country and everyday Americans," said Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. "Justice Felix Frankfurter perhaps anticipated the day when Supreme Court arguments would be televised when he said that he longed for a day when the news media would cover the Supreme Court as thoroughly as it did the World Series," Sen. Specter said in his introductory statement. "Allowing the public greater access to [Supreme Court] proceedings will allow Americans to evaluate for themselves the quality of justice in this country, and deepen their understanding of the work that goes on in the Court," added Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), who cosponsored the bill along with Senators Cornyn, Allen, Grassley, Schumer and Feingold. See the introduction of S.1768, a bill to permit televising of Supreme Court proceedings, September 26: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2005/s1768.html "Justices on the Supreme Court oppose the televising of their proceedings," according to a recent Congressional Research Service report, "in part because the cameras might alter decision making and intrude on the privacy of the justices, making them public celebrities." COMMAND AND CONTROL OF DETAINEE OPERATIONS The U.S. Army has issued a new interim field manual to clarify command and control responsibilities in the handling of detainees, acknowledging that existing military doctrine on the subject is deficient. "As a result of recent events and investigations into detainee operations in Iraq, it was determined there was a need to clarify command and control," the Interim Field Manual states, or understates. The new manual defines the command structure and discusses "the flow of detainees... at each echelon of command." "It is important to note that there is a single officer at every echelon overall responsible for detainee operations." See "Command and Control of Detainee Operations," Field Manual Interim (FMI) 3-63.6, September 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fmi3-63-6.pdf In an extraordinary letter to Senator John McCain published by the Washington Post today, Capt. Ian Fishback wrote that the military chain of command failed to provide clear guidance on treatment of detainees. "I have been unable to get clear, consistent answers from my leadership about what constitutes lawful and humane treatment of detainees," Capt. Fishback wrote. "I am certain that this confusion contributed to a wide range of abuses including death threats, beatings, broken bones, murder, exposure to elements, extreme forced physical exertion, hostage- taking, stripping, sleep deprivation and degrading treatment. I and troops under my command witnessed some of these abuses in both Afghanistan and Iraq." _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Puerto Rico UFO Landing Strip From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:59:02 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:36:00 -0400 Subject: Puerto Rico UFO Landing Strip Source: CNN.Com http://tinyurl.com/d9sry Wednesday, September 28, 2005 UFO landing strip gets mayor's support This country is in crisis, and since politicians are incapable of creating jobs, they create fantasies. -- Luis Arocho, resident LAJAS, Puerto Rico (AP) -- People in this sleepy hamlet are so sure they have been receiving other-worldly visitors, they want to build a UFO landing strip to welcome them. A bright green sign along a lonely country road in southwestern Puerto Rico proudly displays a silhouette of a flying saucer and two words: "Extraterrestrial Route." Most Puerto Ricans laughed when a horse farmer installed the sign on his property at the request of Reynaldo Rios, a local elementary school teacher who says he's been communicating with alien visitors to this U.S. territory since he was a child. Rios, a 39-year-old with a goatee and a shock of dark hair, won't be ignored. With the blessing of a local government desperate for tourist dollars, he's dedicated himself to building the UFO landing strip. "I can't say exactly when they will come, but I know it will happen," Rios said. "I want to keep believing in my dreams." Lajas Mayor Marcos Irizarry's support for the idea has provoked outrage among islanders who complained it would be a waste of money at a time when the government is encouraging thousands of employees to shorten their work week to cope with a staggering fiscal deficit. "What nonsense," said Luis Arocho, 47, sipping coffee with friends in a cafe in historic Old San Juan. "This country is in crisis, and since politicians are incapable of creating jobs, they create fantasies." Irizarry quickly clarified that his municipal government would not invest in the project. Instead, he has promised to help Rios get the proper building permits. UFO beliefs widely held The mayor insists his goal is to attract tourists to his small town. But he is also among Lajans who believe they have seen UFOs in the area. "It's a very mysterious place," said Irizarry, who says he once saw red lights zigzagging above the hills. "A lot of people have seen things." Francisco Negron, the farmer who put up the sign and allows UFO watchers to gather at his ranch, volunteered his property for the landing strip. He and Rios estimate the project could cost up to $100,000 and are looking for money from private companies. Negron, a soft-spoken grandfather, has applied for a permit to build a road to Indian Hill, the chosen site for the strip. Negron and others say a UFO crashed on the hill in 1997. They claim they heard a boom and saw the hill go up in flames. Rios, who leads a group called "UFO International" that holds nighttime vigils to search for signs of alien life, lets Negron worry about details like investment costs and permits while he envisions the design. The landing strip would be 80-feet (24- meters) long and have pyramids as control towers because aliens are attracted to the shape. The mayor hopes that UFO enthusiasts will flock to Lajas as they have to Roswell, New Mexico, the site of a supposed UFO crash in the 1940s. Hundreds of visitors have come to check out the Extraterrestrial Route since the sign went up, Irizarry said. Puerto Rico is known for its Arecibo Observatory and its 1,000- foot (304-meter) parabolic receiver that astronomers really do use to search for extraterrestrial life. The huge dish, in northern Puerto Rico, made a cameo appearance in the 1997 film "Contact," starring Jodi Foster as an astronomer who picks up a signal from extratraterrestrials. What's blimp looking for? But it's a little-known aerostat off the Extraterrestrial Route that inspires UFO lore in Lajas. The U.S. military uses the aerostat, a tethered blimp with a radar system, to detect low- flying drug smuggling planes. But many Lajans don't believe that. Even Irizarry has suggested that the aerostat's true purpose is to detect UFOs. A paved road leading to the blimp curves out of sight between two hills. Two signs warn against trespassing. Rios claims he was once briefly detained while trying to see the aerostat. The school teacher says he first encountered aliens at 13. He says white lights burst into his bedroom, entered his body and cured him of a back injury he had received during a basketball game. In Lajas, people who have grown up hearing reports of UFO sightings seem more open to his scheme. "If we have the technology to reach the moon, there could be
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Pandora's Box - Hebert From: Amy. Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:31:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:37:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Pandora's Box - Hebert >From: Joe Faccenda uforth.nul >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:56:09 EDT >Subject: Pandora's Box <snip> >We want the truth, fine, but can we handle the truth? >Can we comprehend the enormity of the changes such a revelation >would bring? are we ready to open the box? Perhaps the questions are not so much can we handle the truth and are we ready to open the box but whether or not we can recognize the truth when we see it and will we know which box is the right box. What if the truth has been staring us in the face for decades but remains invisible to our perceptions? What if we believe the lies because we _want_ to believe? (Reminds me of a certain poster often displayed in the X-Files series...) <snip> >Disclosure would trigger a chain event that would run right >across the pillars, feeble as they are, of our society. >Government collapse, world-wide financial collapse, and perhaps >world-wide religious upheaval. >Are we ready for just such an event? >Then let us assume we weathered the storm what then? >The alien ship is parked on the lawn, the worlds TV stations are >all tuned in, a grey steps out what do we do? Joe, did you ever wonder how you came to believe the way you do? You parrot the same questions asked over and over and over for too long. What you believe is what you get.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Light Circles? - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:51:49 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:51:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - Shough >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:47:21 -0400 >Subject: Re: Light Circles? >>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:55:26 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Light Circles? >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:18:38 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Light Circles? ><snip> >>>Note the association with miracles and maitreya. Do a google on >>>maitreya and you will see why I am suspicious. Without proof to >>>the contrary I would suspect some digital trickery. >>>At any rate, connection with UFOs is slim to zero. >>Agreed the relevance to UFOs seems small, but since Roy raised >>the question I have to stand by my statement above: I have >>personally seen this, with a witness, exactly as depicted in the >>many photos at Roy's link, and it definitely is not a matter of >>digital trickery. >Where have you seen this? As I said in my first post - twice, in Scotland, specifically in the small Perthshire market town of Crieff. In the clearest case I believe it was in the early spring of 2004. There was one on the flat white-painted NW face of the tower of a town building on the corner of what used to be the market square. It was perfectly centered when I noticed it, a cross inside a polygonal figure, for all the world like some commercial or local- government logo. Although only a moment's thought was necessary to realise that it was obviously a window reflection, nevertheless I'd never seen such an effect before either whilst living there or anywhere else, and it was so striking and unusual that I immediately called my partner. The sun was lowish and west of the meridian, so the culprit window was probably on the top (3rd) floor in our building. We opened our own windows in succession without any effect, but I watched the pattern move in a fashion consistent with a sun reflection over the space of some minutes. I didn't take any accurate bearings or anything as it was merely a curiosity at the time (I no longer live at this address). Either later on this day or on the afternoon of the next (I can't remember now) I exited an east facing door of the same building onto a side street and saw two of the same patterns on the west-facing walls of buildings opposite at about the 2nd storey level (i.e., 1st floor in UK-speak). These walls were mostly in shadow, direct sunlight coming from behind me - i.e. behind the building I had just left. One pattern was quite clear, a cross inside a rectangle; the other was a bit deformed. Again I called my partner's attention to them, and although neither of us seriously doubted that we were seeing window reflections of some kind, this time we were unable to definitely explain them, in that we both agreed we had failed to identify any possible window or windows that might have been responsible for a direct solar reflection. Unfortunately I couldn't hang around longer.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:53:45 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:54:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Sparks >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:59:13 +0100 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:29:15 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>Clancy may have gotten a false sample, especially if she derived >>them from Mack's work because he was New-Age prone and inclined >>to attract abductees of similar beliefs. A very interesting >>study would be the belief systems of abductees before and after >>the perceived events. >Ah! The wrong kind of abductee! >If abductees who have positive responses to their experience are >regarded as 'false samples' and excluded, it naturally leads to >the conclusion that the abduction experience produces a negative >response. >QED. >>The notion that sleep paralysis explains abduction reports, as >>several people already have pointed out, is refuted by the >>elementary data of the reports. But the Clancy's of the world go >>merrily along force-fitting their theories and ignoring the >>data. >But sleep paralysis does explain _some_ abduction reports, in >the same way that *some* UFO reports can be explained by mundane >factors, and research can concentrate on the unexplained cases. >But there seems to be the general assumption that there are *no* >explained abduction cases. >QED. Instead of always speaking in the abstract in a nebulous way, let's see some actual purported "abduction" cases that can be "mundanely" explained.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:01:49 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:55:01 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Sparks >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:28:00 -0700 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:36:40 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>>From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >>>To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 20:09:00 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>Maybe I'm not being clear. It's my understanding that light >>evolved into particles, and particles created atoms, and then >>atoms created molecules, and molecules created us. If speed >>reverses this process, then at some point molecules lose their >>identity and become atoms again. What is that limit? I >>understood David's explanation of the plane and the billiard >>balls but at what speed will the plane, billiard balls, and >>players lose lose their identity? Is ther a limit, or is this a >>stupid question? >After years of college physics studies, NOwhere have I ever >heard of light evolving into particles, then into atoms etc. in >those terms. >There no 'speed limit' except that of c, the speed of light. <snip> >At no point do they 'devolve' into simpler particles, and there >is no reason they should. <snip>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:11:52 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:56:04 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Sparks >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:01 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:15:47 +0100 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:28:44 +0200 >>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:46:05 +0100 >>>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>>How does the US government manage to have the same >>>>control over crashing UFOs when such incidents can >>>>happen, unpredictably, anywhere in the world, at any >>>>time? Why do ETH believers always manage to avoid >>>>giving a sensible answer to this obvious question? >>>The idea that it would be impossible to control all UFO crahes, >>>in any part of the world, is worth consideration. For me, after >>>thinking about it, it does not sound all that impossible. The >>>first reason is that, contrary to many rumors, alleged crashes >>>have been probably in very limited numbers (and, yes, there have >>>been many false rumors of crashes). The second reason is that >>>there is no piece of land in the whole world which escapes >>>military control, by one nation or another. And I don't see any >>>government and military establishment willing to release such >>>information. Any crash of an unknown craft will fall >>>automatically under military control. <snip> >>..you are assuming a lot here. You take it for granted that >>those countries where the crashes occurred would want to cover >>up the fact. You assume that the military in each of these >>countries would get there first, before anyone else, and demand >>silence on the part of the civilian population, the press and >>other media. This is simply going along with Stan Friedman and >>his nonsensical 'cosmic Watergate'. Why on earth should such a >>vital scientific discovery as this be covered up at all? Can >>you name any other discovery that would be covered up in this >>way (and for six decades at that)? >>Since we can take it that the US could not and would not manage >>to despatch their forces to every nation on earth in the event >>of a UFO crash, you now try to persuade us that these countries >>could, or would, do it themselves, and silence everyone in the >>process. <snip> >>This is simply conspiracy theory gone mad. >You are exactly right. But the real fly in the ointment is that >is is sheer nonsense to assume that UFO crashes have occurred or >only occur in places where the military has "instant" access and >outside the purview of the general population (including media). >A failed flying saucer, if it really did fail, would have little >or no choice of where it would end up. That no population center >has experienced such a crash in all the years that these things >have been seen goes to the heart of the problem with the >conspiracy theory of crashed UFOs and the military's seemingly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: French 1950 Landing Case - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:37:38 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:59:26 -0400 Subject: Re: French 1950 Landing Case - Hatch >From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:39:36 +0200 >Subject: French 1950 Landing Case >In the last issue of the Journal of UFO History, Richard Hall >included a short note about a "French 1950 Landing Case, >Humanoid Beings Emerged" >About a month after the East Berlin sighting reported on the >previous page (Herr Oskar Linke's), a retired pilot in >Guayancourt, France, M. Claude Blondeau, had a similar sighting. >As later reported by "Point de Vue" (a weekly newspaper), he >stated: >"At 11 p.m. on July 23, 1950, I was walking along the edge of >the airfield. In the darkness I glimpsed two objects resembling >two enormous hollow plates, about 5 meters in diameter. All >around the edge they were fitted with rectangular portholes. The >lower surface of these saucers opened, and two men emerged. They >were about 170 cm (5 ft. 7 in.) tall, and wore dark blue flying >suits." >(Source: CSI of New York sightings card file). >But that case is much more spectacular. >See: >http://magonia.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ >MAGONIA Supplement #38 "Moon Roof Optional" >Martin Kottmeyer >If you read that article you will discover that there are some >doubts about if the case was known before or after Adamski's >contact tale. >Richard, can you give us the date of that "Point de Vue" >article, and the name of its author? Hello Luis: From my page of Discredited Sightings: http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html ! 1950/07/23 GUYANCOURT, FR : 'Lucky Blondeau': SCR+2 beings: HOAX per /r30 p655 /r30 is the huge celebrated catalog of French sightings by Figuet & Ruchon, out for nearly 30 years. Blondeau was collared by the police for that fiasco if memory serves. I remember a foto of him being hauled in. Few take the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Light Circles? - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:46:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:00:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - White >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:49:10 +0100 >Subject: Re: Light Circles? <snip> >>How about some sort of polarizing effect from all the chemicals >>which are being dumped in the atmosphere, since roughly 1998? >What are these chemicals? Why are they being dumped? Do you have >any actual evidence for this claim? Or is this just paranoid >rambling? >I only ask because I want to know. Those, like myself, who came into this world with a personality fascinated with, and prone to constant observation of, weather and clouds, have no doubts that the cloud formations we are seeing today, since the late 1990s, are not natural. Not natural in more ways than obscuration by pollution. Many follow chemical trails, clearly different from condensation trails sharing the same sky. A Vancouver, British Columbia air traffic controller acknowledged these chemtrails were a "joint US-Canadian military exercise" to an interested caller, who taped the call. A few years ago, here in Ontario, the Canadian Department of National Defence sent letters to citizens who inquired about chemtrails that they were not being sprayed by Canadian military aircraft. Some observers have collected barium and aluminum compounds and unusual biological material from areas such as the desert southwest U.S., where during periods of intense spraying of chemicals, residue collects visibly on automobiles, and, in air sampling devices operated by these desert/mountain based observers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 'Lost' Among Aliens From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:15:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:14:36 -0400 Subject: 'Lost' Among Aliens Source: The Daily Record - Morris County, New Jersey http://tinyurl.com/c6vef 09/28/05 'Lost' Among Aliens By Matt Manochio This TV season is being invaded by extra-terrestrials and it's too much In the words of baseball owner/evil tyrant George Steinbrenner, "Enough is enough!" I direct this outrage to television producers who've inundated the airwaves with alien dramas on ABC, CBS and NBC. Here's the rundown: " CBS is airing "Threshold," a protracted drama about the discovery of an alien craft in the ocean by the Navy, leading investigators to believe that an invasion is possible. " NBC is airing "Surface," a lengthy drama about the discovery of unidentified sea creatures that could be aliens, or possibly Snorks, meaning an invasion and cross-promotional toy tie-ins are possible. " Finally and most glaringly, ABC is broadcasting "Invasion," a - surprise! - drawn-out suspense thriller about aliens (body- snatcher types) who concoct a hurricane to use as a distraction to invade Florida. (Item! ABC ran this show's commercial every five minutes throughout August, to the point where I felt morally obligated to watch the premiere. Then Hurricane Katrina hit, and ABC pulled the ads out of sensitivity. Is it lost on ABC that the people who probably would've been the most offended by seeing these ads lost power when Katrina hit? And then ABC went and aired the actual show as Hurricane Rita was preparing to destroy parts of Texas and Louisiana.) The reason the networks are so desperate to air these shows is simple: "Lost." The Emmy Award-winning drama about plane crash survivors marooned on a mysterious island has snared a devoted horde of fans - me included - who slavishly watch a television show that has a million plot twists, leaves open countless questions and answers none of them, and keeps fans consistently frustrated by how little is revealed. But we watch anyway. The networks are now cranking out dramas along the same lines but using aliens as the vehicle. I asked some experts - an astronomer and a UFO aficionado - about why producers are so fixated on aliens. "I'd like to think there's a basic interest in space that is drawing people down this road," said John Scala, 47, planetarium director at Lenape Valley Regional High School in Stanhope. I asked him if aliens could somehow engineer a hurricane to invade the planet. "Oh, my Lord," he said. "That's why they call it science fiction." George Filer, of Medford, who's both the state and eastern director of the Mutual UFO Network, said people have always been really fascinated by aliens. "Next to pornography on the Internet, UFOs get the biggest interest," Filer told me. (Journalists learn new things every day of their lives, and by the time I hung up the phone with Filer I felt like Einstein.) "I saw 'Invasion' the other night," Filer said. "It appears that at least two of the key players are aliens, although they look like normal people. I get people calling me from all over the world who claim they are aliens. I have no way of knowing if it's true or not." Well how could you? It's not like you pee in a cup and if it turns blue, you're an alien. "I think that a large percentage of the population ... have seen strange things in the skies and that science doesn't really explain much of what people are seeing," Filer said. "In other words, there's this underlying secret that everybody wonders about." I'm not so na=EFve as to think that we're the only beings in the universe. It's quite likely that in some distant galaxy there is intelligent life, or possibly Snorks. By the way, Filer said that President Reagan also hinted at the existence of alien life and was prepared to launch a counter attack against an extraterrestrial invasion with Mikhail Gorbachev by his side. His Web site, www.nationalufocenter.com, refers to the Gipper's remarks before the U.N. General Assembly in 1987: "In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity," Reagan said. "Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us realize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world. And yet, I ask you, is not an alien force already among us?" Of course there was! It was the 1980s, and "E.T." stole the hearts of the world by munching Reese's Pieces and guzzling all the beer in Elliott's fridge. "What the public doesn't realize is (UFOs are) photographed and videotaped regularly, and the news doesn't pick it up," Filer said, adding that newspaper circulation has plummeted because of this. "My personal feeling is you can counter that by having more articles like this," Filer said. "And that's why I think that TV is going to these shows. 'Lost' (and) 'Medium' delve into this kind of thing. Science kind of ignores the problem." Regardless, I won't be looking out for aliens. "Lost" is my baby, and the idea of becoming drawn into four different dramas
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Memory Without Klass - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:20:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:18:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Maccabee >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:52:27 -0500 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:40:56 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass snip >>THANK YOU, Mr. Lehmberg, for your expose of the >>meanness/negativity of Herr Klassh__e. Among the dastardly >>deeds he'd committed back in the eighties was his telephonic >>brow-beating of officials at the University of Nebraska's >>(Lincoln) adult-education center when he got word that a >>MUFON-related conference was to be held there. He berated >>the attenders as communistic/subversive, and implored the >>officials to cancel the conference. As true >>academic-freedom champions, the officials chose to defy his >>attack. >>Who knows how much other such underhandedness he managed to >>orchestrate against UFO researchers/witnesses? May he be >>reincarnated upon some other (barren) planet besides >>Earth.... -- O-ver and O-ut >Also this, which Doc Maccabee can verify or not: >>One time Klass tried to (indirectly) sic Bruce Maccabee's >>employer on him for (allegedly) using some office >>supplies/duty time to pursue his UFO research.< I don't recall any such thing. Klass certainly knew where I
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 UFO Over Bangkok From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:08:44 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:23:54 -0400 Subject: UFO Over Bangkok Again, watching Thai television today saw a news report w/photo of a "jahn binh" or UFO. The photo was fuzzy, natch. It showed three orbs on the edge of an oval of a whitish-yellow color and tinge areas of red above and below.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:54:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:25:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Maccabee >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:34:11 +0000 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:59:13 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained <snip> >>QED. >Queer Educational Deficiency? >Sleep paralysis may explain a few cases reported as abductions. >That certainly should be studied and cases should be screened >for it. When they are, it turns out that the sleep paralysis >explanation used so sweepingly by the Clancy's of the world is >rather inadequate for the great bulk of cases. Why is it that >skeptibunkers seize on the grossly inadequate explanation as if >it were some panacea while ignoring the fact that the vast >majority of cases are unexplained.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Toronto Symposium Report #02 From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:29:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:29:01 -0400 Subject: Toronto Symposium Report #02 Source: Eye Magazine - Toronto http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_09.29.05/op/wanderingeye.html 09.29.05 Wandering Eye U OF T -- Outside Convocation Hall, a predominantly white, middle-aged group of about 20 discuss their personal encounters with UFOs. Retired electronic engineer John Ford says he saw his first flying saucer in 1963, while picnicking in the Zimbabwe bush with his wife and their friends. Catherine Monserie, on the other hand, has seen alien crafts outside Paris in 1967 and over the Toronto Islands in 1995. It is no surprise that audience members at the university's UFO Disclosure and Planetary Directions Symposium are ET believers - - you'd have to be to spend $40 for seven hours of conspiracy theory. What is surprising is that most of the convention's audience, as well as its featured speakers (who include a political activist, a nuclear physicist and former minister of defence and former Deputy Prime Minister Paul Hellyer) are not your central-casting idea of conspiracy theorists. As nuclear physicist Stanton T. Friedman says, his speech could have been called, "What's a Nice Guy Like You Doing in a Place Like This?" Friedman is here to address what he refers to as a "Cosmic Watergate" and "the biggest story of the past millennium": Western governments' secrecy regarding extraterrestrial life. Friedman, who began studying UFOs in 1958 after ordering a text on the subject to avoid paying shipping fees on a load of books, is considered the "original civilian investigator" of Roswell, New Mexico's famous 1947 UFO crash site. Pursuant to 1966's Freedom of Information Act in the US, Friedman requested the CIA's UFO files. This appeal, which should have taken 10 working days to process, took five years, leading him to assume, "These guys must work five minutes a day." When the documents did arrive, the majority of their content was blacked out. Clearly, the government is keeping secrets. Author Richard Dolan says clandestine UFO research is funded by the "black budget" -- secret money collected from classified federal taxes, drug trafficking and securities fraud. There are many explanations for governments' secrecy. Some allude to fears of a Wellesian public panic in the wake of disclosure and Dolan says that once you acknowledge a problem, you are expected to take action, which the government is unprepared to do. Paul Hellyer reinforces this point by saying that he was "too busy" to pay attention to the UFO issue while in office. But the speakers agree that governments must reveal any existing UFO-related problems and set about solving them immediately. Stephen G. Bassett, director of Paradigm Research Group, says alien abduction is his biggest concern in the world today. To put this comment in perspective, Bassett cites overpopulation as the second most pressing matter. During a question and answer session, a female audience member worries about the treatment of the human-alien hybrids that allegedly result from abductions. Still, not everyone views abduction as a major threat. Paul Hellyer says he is unaware of anyone dying at the hands of extraterrestrials. Instead, Hellyer sees anti-alien weapons as a bigger danger. The politician believes that the nuclear missiles
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Welsh University Offers Extraterrestrial Degree From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:12:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:12:57 -0400 Subject: Welsh University Offers Extraterrestrial Degree Source: Yahoo News.Com http://tinyurl.com/dad73 Wed Sep 28 Welsh University Offers Extraterrestrial Degree LONDON (AFP) - A British university has launched a three-year degree course in the hunt for life beyond the planet Earth. The University of Glamorgan this week launched what it said was Britain's first undergraduate course in astrobiology, the search for extraterrestrial life. It cited the recent excitement over the possibility of finding life on Saturn's moon Titan as an example of how the search for life beyond Earth is a "major driving force" behind current space programs. About half a dozen people enrolled this week in the degree course, which will encompass topics like "Exploring the Sky," "Vertebrate Zoology," "Science and the Media," and "Life in the Universe", the university said. Course leader Professor Mark Brake said there was massive interest in the topic. About 100 people in the local community are studying aspects of the subject. Though the course will examine popular culture, including films like "ET," students will also study obscure texts, work in laboratories and conduct stargazing.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Mystery Aircraft Over Janakpur Nepal From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:17:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:17:57 -0400 Subject: Mystery Aircraft Over Janakpur Nepal Source: The Himalayan Times - Kathmandu, Nepal http://tinyurl.com/b8uzb September 27, 2005 Mystery Aircraft Over Janakpur Brij Kumar Yadav Janakpurdham An unidentified aircraft was spotted hovering over Janakpur sky this morning in a mysterious manner and disappeared before officials of the Civil Aviation Authority could make any contact with the aircraft and ascertain its identity. The aircraft was seen in the sky at a height of around 3,000 feet at around 6:00 am. The origin and the destination of the aircraft was not known till late this evening. Head of the Civil Aviation Authority of Nepal (CAAN) in Janakpur, Devananda Upadhyaya, said attempts to establish communication with the aircraft were made at 6:28 am, but to no avail as there was no response from the aircraft. Maintaining that there were no scheduled flights of any Nepali airlines in the morning, he said it must have been an Indian aircraft and it might have entered Nepali airspace by mistake. Upadhyaya said his office has already informed the CAAN�s head office in Kathmandu about the incident. He said CAAN can impose fines on any aircraft that crosses into Nepali airspace without permission.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 UFO Mystery Send For Mulder And Scully! From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:20:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:20:49 -0400 Subject: UFO Mystery Send For Mulder And Scully! Source: The Ilford Recorder - Ilford, Essex, UK http://tinyurl.com/a3qdq 29 September 2005 UFO Mystery Send For Mulder And Scully! It's time to send for TV alien detectives Mulder and Scully - our local expert says the mysterious lights seen over Hainault definitely belonged to a UFO and were probably the work of extra-terrestrial beings. Roy Lake, chairman of London UFO Studies, spoke about the lights this week as more residents came forward to confirm they had seen them. Last week we reported that seven Hainault residents had seen unexplained lights in the sky, which moved around and formed a line and a perfect triangle before fading away. Mr Lake said: "I would say you've got a UFO there. It's not balloons or flares because they don't behave like that. "If it's not some secret project by the government, then you have got some other intelligent life behind it, which is likely
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 UFO Researcher Discusses Alien Visits From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:06:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:06:33 -0400 Subject: UFO Researcher Discusses Alien Visits Source: The Buffalo News - Buffalo, New York, USA http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050928/1069499.asp 9/28/2005 UFO Researcher Discusses Alien Visits By Pam Kowalik News Niagara Bureau SANBORN - "Yes, Virginia, there are flying saucers." Niagara County Community College Noted UFO researcher Stanton T. Friedman made two free guest appearances at Niagara County Community College Tuesday, provoking a crowd of about 250 at the nighttime lecture to think of the possibility that alien spacecrafts have landed on Earth. He outlined four major conclusions of his 47 years of studying unidentified flying objects: there is overwhelming evidence some UFOs with aliens have visited Earth; the U.S. government has covered up the visitations of aliens; none of the arguments by nay-sayers have any clout; and the visitation by aliens and their spacecraft is the biggest story of the millennium. Friedman cited his lengthy studies of the reported alien landing at Roswell, N.M., in 1947 and showed slides from his own visits to the Roswell area. Friedman also said since he believes planets far from Earth have been in existence for billions of years, the inhabitants of such planets have had much more time to come up with more sophisticated means of travel than we have here. Friedman worked for 14 years as a nuclear physicist for such companies as General Electric, General Motors, Westinghouse, TRW Systems, Aerojet General Nucleonics and McDonnell Douglas on such advanced, classified, and eventually canceled projects as nuclear aircraft, fission and fusion rockets and nuclear power plants for space. Friedman showed the audience shots of newspaper stories reporting the supposed alien landing at Roswell, N.M., in 1947. The government later said the landings were not of UFOs, but a weather balloon or radar deflector, said Friedman. Friedman concluded by saying that the subject of flying saucers represents a cosmic "Watergate" that should be uncovered.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:55:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:09:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Dickenson >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:21:16 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:10:19 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained ><snip> >The content of the gospels is purely religious and revelatory. >There is nothing directly political, sociological, scientific, >or cosmological in them. <snip> >The same goes for the Fatima event, the content of which is so >intensely and authentically Catholic, that if Fatima was a light >show put on by aliens, the aliens must be Catholics. >Aliens strongly recommending the praying of the rosary? Hi Pavel, Are you saying that a protestant (or any Infidel, Jew, Muslim etc) present at Fatima wouldn't have seen a thing? Or felt the radiated heat that was said to have dried their sodden clothes (and surrounding terrain) within ten minutes or so? I.e. that you would have seen 60,000 suddenly dry and warm Catholics and one wet, cold protestant? Cheers Ray D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:42:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:12:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:22:10 -0400 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:28:06 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace ><snip> >>If aliens are visiting, an arguable point despite the >>circumstantial evidence, their mission has been inscrutable to >>everyone, even the governments you think are in the know. >>One other point: if Eisenhower met with an alien delegation in >>1954 as you state, it sure didn't seem to disrupt his golf >>game(s). >>I'd think such a meeting would change one's existential modus. >I believe that a biography of Jackie Gleason tells the story of >his playing golf with (then) President Nixon in Florida where >they had summer homes, and they discussed Jackie's serious >interest in UFOs. Nixon then allegedly took Gleason to seen an >alien craft at a local Air Base, and the only person he told of >this trip was his wife (who wrote the biolgraphy). Maybe the >game of Golf has some significance in the UFO field.....<g> Hi Rich, Steve, These stories are, of course, obviously silly! No golfer would interrupt a golf game to go see a UFO or would waste time going to see a UFO when they could be on the links. Such mundane things getting in the way of a game? How absurd! Is it any wonder we can't trust "whistle blowers?" In any case this whole thread is ludicrous. To believe Aliens are peaceful, again absurd! I got the straight skinny on this at the 1994 MUFON conference. Naively, I was trying to find out something about UFOs by collecting official personal and newspaper accounts from various archives and libraries. What a waste of time! Sitting at a breakfast table with several State Section leaders, I listened to an informal briefing on what was up in their respective areas. One abductee had killed a grey during one of a rather hairy abduction. Good stuff, huh? Wait it gets better! So the teller of this tale mentioned in an off-hand manner, "The Greys have lost all patience with the Rebel Reptilians." "What does that mean," someone asked innocently. "War! It's the last straw! The Rebel Reptilians have pushed too far this time." So there you have it. I was deflated, asking for help screening local newspaper was obviously out of the question. So, there you have it! For over ten years the Truth's been out there! Exopolitics is the equivalent of Chamberlain's umbrella, lulling people into a false sense of security that ET, fun loving peaceful beings, have only our best interest at heart. HAH! In truth some are torturers, absuers, voyeurs, and rapists. My advice is we throw in with the Reptilians! Contact Zok, Chief Cultivator in the Gardern of War, Admiral of the Grand Fleet, Claw and Fang of the Rebellion and throw ourselves on his mercy.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Cohen From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:40:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:17:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Cohen >From: Dave Stone <dlstone63.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:14:24 -0700 >Subject: Apollo 11 UFO Encounter <snip> >Narrator: The Crew required information on the current position of >the S-IVB, the final stage of the rocket which had been jettisoned >away 2 days earlier. This short message hid an extraordinary turn >of events: Apollo 11 wasn't alone in space. >Buzz Aldrin: There was something out there that, uh, was close >enough to be observed and what could it be? >Narrator: Traveling along side of Apollo 11 was a mysterious object >like this one (a ringed object at close range is shown), filmed on a >later mission. If it wasn't part of their own rocket, it could only be >one thing, a UFO. >Aldrin: Mike (Collins) decided he thought he could see it in the >telescope and he was able to do that and when it was in one >position, that had a series of ellipses, but when you made it real >sharp it was sort of L shaped. That didn't tell us very much. <snip> Dave, thanks for the great transcription. My video recorder is broken and I couldn't record the program. I was trying to jot notes as I was sitting watching it the second time. Because I'm not totally familiar with all the reported astronaut sightings, I'd like confirmation from others that what Dave says about the this particular UFO encounter never being spoken about by Aldrin before is accurate. I am familiar with the "ringed" image that looked like an "L" when it was brought into sharper focus. I remember reading about that and perhaps even seeing this image once before somewhere else. I'm not sure whether it was on a video or just reading it in the newspapers a number of years ago. What is significant, at least to me, is that this presentation appears to be saying that this UFO was seen on Apollo 11 and then filmed again on a later mission. If this is accurately the case, we have a repeated object; and it wasn't just particles coming off the Apollo 11. Something else was definitely out there, and on more than one mission. What are the odds on that happening and mission control not knowing what the object was? This sounds like the real thing to me.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Memory Without Klass - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:49:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:18:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Clark >From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:25:51 +0100 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:07:11 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:48:59 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>>How has this letter just surfaced, and exactly how did Richard >>>Dolan get hold of it? I must say I find it very hard to believe >>>any such letter was ever written. >>It is "very hard to believe" only if one doesn't know Klass or, >>worse, has a glossy-eyed romantic view of him (as in the >>profoundly silly Fortean Times obit). >I have the Fortean Times obituary of Phil Klass to hand and I >can't find anything "romantic" or "profoundly silly" about it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:52:01 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:21:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Smith >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:38:04 -0400 >Subject: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO >This may or may not have been discussed already and I don't have >time to peruse all the back mail to find out. See the bountiful archives with Oberg's wisdom and data: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jan/m13-008.shtml http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/jan/m14-016.shtml >However, I just >saw a program on the science channel which verifies the UFO >reported seen by Armstrong and Aldrin on their Apollo 11 flight >to the moon as legitimate and unsolved. (at least to the date of >the filming.) Probably is still unsolved. Almost any "UFO" seen in space is unsolved. Rarely can you be really sure about an object whose distance you can't judge. Tons of ice and mylar and debris and trash and who knows maybe a stray alien spaceship every once in a while. Sorting through that mess makes haystack needles seem easy. The main cases where you can be definitely sure its not a large object is when it passes between you (or the camera) and another piece of hardware near you. If you are really lucky, there is orbital data to match the "UFO" with a satellite or missing wrench/junk. Still, after the hoopla, where does it get us? Another UFO story which is inconclusive. As I always say, we need some field research.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:55:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:22:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reynolds >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:21:16 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:10:19 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained ><snip> >>New Testament and Gnostic accounts of Jesus' appearance after >>His alleged (supposed) resurrection resemble the kinds of >>between incorporeality and tangibility (corporeality) that >>abduction accounts mimic. >>That is, Jesus was neither here nor there but in an altered >>state of being that doesn't fit the physical laws of nature as >>we know them. ><snip> >I wish some of you guys would actually read the gospels, and >perhaps even some patristic and contemporary commentaries on >them - before stating the Jesus as Space Brother hypothesis. >Try C. S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, for instance. >The content of the gospels is purely religious and revelatory. >There is nothing directly political, sociological, scientific, >or cosmological in them. >As to the reality of the Resurrection, in a documentary sense, >see 1 Corinthians 15, 1 - 8 and in the faith and experiential >sense any faithful Christian. >The same goes for the Fatima event, the content of which is so >intensely and authentically Catholic, that if Fatima was a light >show put on by aliens, the aliens must be Catholics. >Aliens strongly recommending the praying of the rosary? Pavel: I don't know where you got the impression that my post was positing Jesus as a Space Brother. My point was that accounts of his resurrection, in the Gospels, mimic some of the abduction (not contactee) accounts extant. And to quote St. Paul (Corinthians) is interesting since he
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Apollo 11 UFO Encounter - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:01:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:44:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Apollo 11 UFO Encounter - Smith >From: Dave Stone <dlstone63.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:14:24 -0700 >Subject: Apollo 11 UFO Encounter >To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time that Buzz >Aldrin, an Apollo 11 astronaut, had ever publicly recounted any >UFO experience associated with the Apollo 11 moon mission. Also >of interest, I wonder how the UFO footage that was supposedly >taken from a later Apollo mission obtained? I did not see the program but there were two ways to get footage. One via TV and the other via film camera. Sometimes they hooked up the film camera to the sextant. The later Apollo mission footage I would imagine (having not seen the film clip they showed) had to have something "ringlike" in it to make sense for the program so I bet its the old Apollo 16 'UFO" film footage which has been shown to be the Apollo module EVA floodlight. That would be just like TV to show something that was explained in lieu of non-existent footage. >Narrator: Traveling along side of Apollo 11 was a mysterious >object like this one (a ringed object at close range is shown), >filmed on a later mission. If it wasn't part of their own >rocket, it could only be one thing, a UFO.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Memory Without Klass - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:03:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:15:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Lehmberg >From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:25:51 +0100 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:07:11 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:48:59 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>>How has this letter just surfaced, and exactly how did Richard >>>Dolan get hold of it? I must say I find it very hard to believe >>>any such letter was ever written. >>It is "very hard to believe" only if one doesn't know Klass or, >>worse, has a glossy-eyed romantic view of him (as in the >>profoundly silly Fortean Times obit). >I have the Fortean Times obituary of Phil Klass to hand and I >can't find anything "romantic" or "profoundly silly" about it. >Would you care to explain what you mean? I'm suspect he will, Mr. Harney, but as an ardent klasskurtxian in your own right, I suspect that it is the lens _you_ use that sees it as you obviously do. A little intellectual squeegeeing, legitimate balance, and karmic evenhandedness would fix you right up, I'm sure. Dig it, Klass _still_ 'lives'. Call the Ghostbusters.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:16:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:17:29 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Reynolds >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:11:52 EDT >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:01 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up <snip> >...populated centers account for less than 1% of the >earth's surface. Chances of a UFO crashing in a >populated center are less than 1 in 100. Brad,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: 'Lost' Among Aliens - Gammon From: Jason Gammon <LuckyHoodoo.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:50:41 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:19:53 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Lost' Among Aliens - Gammon >From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> >To: skeptic.nul, ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:15:31 -0700 >Subject: 'Lost' Among Aliens >Source: The Daily Record - Morris County, New Jersey >http://tinyurl.com/c6vef >09/28/05 <snip> >His Web site, www.nationalufocenter.com, refers to the Gipper's >remarks before the U.N. General Assembly in 1987: >"In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often >forget how much unites all the members of humanity," Reagan >said. "Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us >realize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our >differences would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from >outside this world. And yet, I ask you, is not an alien force >already among us?" You forgot to mention that this was just one example of Reagan's remarks. I believe he included the same phrase or a similar one in 4 seperate speeches. >Regardless, I won't be looking out for aliens. "Lost" is my >baby, and the idea of becoming drawn into four different dramas >that never reveal anything substantial is a bit too much for >me. >I still want to know what the heck that thing is that goes >crashing around the jungle in "Lost." The whole secret behind "Lost" is that the writers are wingin' it. They are just going with the flow and have never set any reasons or explanations, as they have none. More than likely the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Intelligent Design - Deardorff From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:58:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:22:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Intelligent Design - Deardorff >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:51:18 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Re: Intelligent Design >>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:11:00 -0700 >>Subject: Intelligent Design >>The trial underway in Harrisburg, for including "Intelligent >>Design" within the Dover Area school system, deserves our >>attention. <snip> >>I think this trial and its resulting publicity will help >>ufology more than harm it, even though the opposition might, >>e.g., raise the topic of Raelians and their views in attempts >>to discredit it. >Jim >See "Intelligent Design - You Bet" >http://tinyurl.com/bte3l
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: 'Lost' Among Aliens - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:23:54 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Lost' Among Aliens - Groff >From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:15:31 -0700 >Subject: 'Lost' Among Aliens >Source: The Daily Record - Morris County, New Jersey >http://tinyurl.com/c6vef >09/28/05 >'Lost' Among Aliens >By Matt Manochio >This TV season is being invaded by extra-terrestrials <snip> One new series that seems to have been 'lost' in all of this is "Supernatural". While its theme is not UFOs (yet), so far of all the new paranormal shows it is my favorite with 'Surface' a close second. It's about two brothers (Sam and Dean) who are in possession of their father's journal which is full of paranormal research. They are using the journal in an attempt to locate him. During their travels they encounter the same events and entities that their dad has written about in his journal. The first episode was about a female spirit that was drowning men who had been unfaithful to their wives. The second was about the 'Wendigo', a creature that evolves from people that had reverted to cannibalism. The younger brother is also trying to find the entity that caused the death of his wife. -- I like 'Surface' so far because it seems to illustrate the concept of panspermia rather than an intentional invasion. (I said 'seems') 'Invasion' is already starting to bore me. I'm not too keen on the body snatcher idea. 'Threshold' is OK but only because Brent Spiner is in it, otherwise it would leave me flat for the same reason that 'Invasion does. :-) 'Night Stalker' starts tonight. I'm anxious to see how it compares to the original. It's on at the same time as CSI so it better be good if it wants to steal me away. It will be interesting to see which series survive and which get the boot.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: French 1950 Landing Case - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:17:14 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:27:15 -0400 Subject: Re: French 1950 Landing Case - Ledger >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:37:38 -0700 >Subject: Re: French 1950 Landing Case >>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:39:36 +0200 >>Subject: French 1950 Landing Case >>In the last issue of the Journal of UFO History, Richard Hall >>included a short note about a "French 1950 Landing Case, >>Humanoid Beings Emerged" >>About a month after the East Berlin sighting reported on the >>previous page (Herr Oskar Linke's), a retired pilot in >>Guayancourt, France, M. Claude Blondeau, had a similar sighting. >>As later reported by "Point de Vue" (a weekly newspaper), he >>stated: >>"At 11 p.m. on July 23, 1950, I was walking along the edge of >>the airfield. In the darkness I glimpsed two objects resembling >>two enormous hollow plates, about 5 meters in diameter. All >>around the edge they were fitted with rectangular portholes. The >>lower surface of these saucers opened, and two men emerged. They >>were about 170 cm (5 ft. 7 in.) tall, and wore dark blue flying >>suits." >>(Source: CSI of New York sightings card file). >>But that case is much more spectacular. >>See: >>http://magonia.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ >>MAGONIA Supplement #38 "Moon Roof Optional" >>Martin Kottmeyer >>If you read that article you will discover that there are some >>doubts about if the case was known before or after Adamski's >>contact tale. >>Richard, can you give us the date of that "Point de Vue" >>article, and the name of its author? >Hello Luis: >From my page of Discredited Sightings: >http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html >! 1950/07/23 GUYANCOURT, FR : 'Lucky Blondeau': > SCR+2 beings: HOAX per /r30 p655 >/r30 is the huge celebrated catalog of French sightings >by Figuet & Ruchon, out for nearly 30 years. >Blondeau was collared by the police for that fiasco if memory >serves. I remember a foto of him being hauled in. Few take the >case seriously I take it. Hi Larry, From what I read of this case above your remarks I'm curious as to your word fiasco which implies a disasterous attempt at a hoax that went wrong. Why was Blondeau taken away in cuffs? What happened to him as a result of being arrested? Was the case not taken seriously because Blondeau was arrested? Being arrested in France in 1950 could be accomplished very easily. It was a police state. Vallee's "Forbidden Science" makes clear the political condition that existed in France during this time and was one very important reason why he immigrated to the United States.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: Light Circles? - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:15:30 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:29:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Light Circles? - Ledger >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:46:39 -0400 >Subject: Re: Light Circles? >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:49:10 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Light Circles? ><snip> >>>How about some sort of polarizing effect from all the chemicals >>>which are being dumped in the atmosphere, since roughly 1998? >>What are these chemicals? Why are they being dumped? Do you >>have any actual evidence for this claim? Or is this just >>paranoid rambling? >>I only ask because I want to know. >Those, like myself, who came into this world with a personality fascinated with, and prone to constant observation of, weather and clouds, have no doubts that the cloud formations we are seeing today, since the late 1990s, are not natural. Not natural in more ways than obscuration by pollution. Many follow chemical trails, clearly different from condensation trails sharing the same sky. >A Vancouver, British Columbia air traffic controller >acknowledged these chemtrails were a "joint US-Canadian military >exercise" to an interested caller, who taped the call. A few >years ago, here in Ontario, the Canadian Department of National >Defence sent letters to citizens who inquired about chemtrails >that they were not being sprayed by Canadian military aircraft. >Some observers have collected barium and aluminum compounds and >unusual biological material from areas such as the desert >southwest U.S., where during periods of intense spraying of >chemicals, residue collects visibly on automobiles, and, in air >sampling devices operated by these desert/mountain based >observers. >This is not a forum about chemtrails. If you prefer to believe >they don't exist, be my guest - I won't debate you here. John, Eleanor, I had considered the chemtrail reports as hogwash up until ~7 years ago, believing myself that this was just a misunderstanding of the proliferation of contrails due to increased activities in the 4 flight levels between 35,000 and 80,000 feet. The latter is/was the domain of the SR-71, below that the Concorde at about 62,000 plus feet, the biz jets at 52,000-54,000 feet and airliners at 35,000 to 42,000 feet. Two things happened to change my mind. The first occurred while a friend of mine and fellow pilot were flying our respective aircraft back from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia to or airfield just south of the Minas Basin which is the eastern most tip of the Bay Of Fundy. Our flight track took us pretty much right down the center of the province. My friend was flying a homebuilt aircraft called a KR-2, a low wing aircraft, with a bubble canopy, that is a, small, very slippery aircraft and which could squeeze about 170 mph out of a 65 horsepower engine. I was flying my high-wing Cessna 172. He was throttled back and I was pushing mine so that we were cruising at about 125 mph and spaced apart about 3,000 feet laterally. We were at 7,500 feet to get above the turbulence of building mid-day thermals. It was a beautiful CAVU summer's day [Ceiling And Visibility Unlimited]. Kev radioed me and said to have a look above and just ahead of us. I leaned forward and looked through the windshield. At my 11 o'clock was a bulky, white, 4 engined jet at probably 20,000 feet flying the same course as us. We thought it was C-141 Starlifter. At just over two miles above us it was quite large. It was accompanied by a smaller single engine jet [we guessed an F-16] at the Starlifter's 8 o'clock. It was spewing a billowy, white trail behind it which was in no way associated with its four engines. This was very clear.The chase plane wasn't exibiting a contrail either given the temps that day. It was very hot. At 7,500 feet it was 20C OAT. At 20 grand it would have been hard to form contrails in any event. The stuff was coming from a vent? just below the leading edge of its horizontal stabilizer [rear wing] from it's rear belly section and most likely from the rear cargo door region. This was the first time I had given credence to the chemtrail stories. Dick Haines sent me a list of Executive Orders signed off on by Clinton sometime after that and one of these orders clearly empowered the use of and the further dispensation of chemical compounds into the atmosphere and actually used the word "chemtrails" with quotes, in the text of the order. Someone could likely find this list of orders which was around 1997-2000. One other detail. There is a corridor right down the centerline of Nova Scotia mandated by Transport Canada which is assigned to the United States armed forces [air] for mid-air refueling purposes. It's at Victor Airway 312 at 20,000 to 22,000 feet. I've often watched American military aircraft flying along this route and at 20,000 feet refueling and on their way overseas.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:15:52 -0300 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:34:00 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Friedman >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:11:52 EDT >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:01 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:15:47 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up <snip> >>>Since we can take it that the US could not and would not manage >>>to despatch their forces to every nation on earth in the event >>>of a UFO crash, you now try to persuade us that these countries >>>could, or would, do it themselves, and silence everyone in the >>>process. ><snip> >>>This is simply conspiracy theory gone mad. >>You are exactly right. But the real fly in the ointment is that >>is is sheer nonsense to assume that UFO crashes have occurred or >>only occur in places where the military has "instant" access and >>outside the purview of the general population (including media). >>A failed flying saucer, if it really did fail, would have little >>or no choice of where it would end up. That no population center >>has experienced such a crash in all the years that these things >>have been seen goes to the heart of the problem with the >>conspiracy theory of crashed UFOs and the military's seemingly >>omnipotent power to constrain any information about alleged >>crashes. >I would generally agree except that populated centers account >for less than 1% of the earth's surface. Chances of a UFO >crashing in a populated center are less than 1 in 100. Gee, last time I checked much of the world's skies were monitored by radar and since the early 1960s' by spy satellites. The data from these systems is born classified. Every country would want to recover stuff coming down from the sky whether it is somebody's spy satellite, one's own satellites or reentering rockets, foreign spy planes or a flying saucer. They ought to be worth quite a bit on the open world clandestine market. In addition I know of no country that wants its citizens to owe their allegiance to the planet instead of that country. May I remind Listers that 166 Americans were in recon planes that were shot down or captured without public admission until not many years ago. There were also a number of Soviet planes that we destroyed or captured... in silence. But then perhaps CDA can read all the stuff under the White-out on the NSA UFO documents and the blackout in the CIA UFO documents. I can't. There is a cosmic Watergate.. like it or not.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 29 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:58:45 +0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:36:58 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Bourdais >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:11:52 EDT >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:01 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>From: Christopher Allan >>><cda.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:15:47 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:28:44 +0200 >>>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up <snip> >I would generally agree except that populated centers >account for less than 1% of the earth's surface. >Chances of a UFO crashing in a populated center are >less than 1 in 100. This is a very important point, to grasp the global situation. In addition to that, UFOs have been avoiding populated areas, with a few exceptions such as the Hudson Valley and Belgium. And, BTW, observations in populated areas were minimized in the big media. Again, the probable crash in Varginha occurred close
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Pandora's Box - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:39:08 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:43:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Pandora's Box - Friedman >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:19:02 -0500 >Subject: Re: Pandora's Box >>From: Joe Faccenda uforth.nul >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:56:09 EDT >>Subject: Pandora's Box >>In assessing the advances in ufology, or perhaps the lack of it, >>there does come a point where a reassessment of what exactly >>Ufologist's goals are? >>Our Governments to open up its ufo files? >>A UFO to land on the White House lawn? >>Or is it just a a desire to know that you were right all along, >>that ufos are real, and aliens are visiting this world. >>Each and every question is so loaded with responsibility I >>sometimes wonder if we in the UFO community have thought through >>the consequences. >>We want the truth, fine, but can we handle the truth? ><snip> >>Disclosure would trigger a chain event that would run right >>across the pillars, feeble as they are, of our society. >>Government collapse, world-wide financial collapse, and perhaps >>world-wide religious upheaval. ><snip> >Joe Faccenda: >Do you really think earthlings would panic if a UFO landed and >alien beings stepped forth? >Most humans accept, at some level, unconscious and otherwise, >that we are not alone in the Universe. >A landing would only confrim that; the excitement of such an >event diminishing shortly thereafter while we all go back to our >major concerns: gas prices, reality TV, and how much beer is >in the fridge. >The worldwide panic/Orson Welles-like debacle is shopworn. >What happened in 1938 has no bearing on what would happen >today. We humans have seen and experienced too much since >then. Let us not forget that War Of The Worlds presented a very threatening scenario of very evil, destructive, technologically advanced Martians destroying New Jersey. They were not visiting to have coffee, tea or a beer. They were here to destroy. That is very very different from an official announcement saying for example that: "An international committee has been reviewing an enormous amount of reliable data and has concluded that some UFOs are indeed alien spacecraft whose purpose does not after all these years appear to be destructive. International conferences have been planned to deal with the religious, economic, philosophical, scientific and other implications of these visitors. Technical data will not be released because of its obvious implications for military utilization..." Context is very important, I should think.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:36:22 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:45:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Rimmer >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:53:45 EDT >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:59:13 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>But sleep paralysis does explain _some_ abduction reports, in >>the same way that *some* UFO reports can be explained by mundane >>factors, and research can concentrate on the unexplained cases. >>But there seems to be the general assumption that there are *no* >>explained abduction cases. >>QED. >Instead of always speaking in the abstract in a nebulous way, >let's see some actual purported "abduction" cases that can be >"mundanely" explained. >Seems to me your strategy is to bastardize the database, much >like one who hates ball lightning phenomena would adulterate >cases of ball lightning with all manner of reports of strangely >behaving lightning bolts, who then turns around and claims those >who report "ball" or sphere shapes were liars or mistaken. So what are you saying? That _all_ abduction reports are the result of unknown and possibly extraterrestrial forces? No-one seems to have any trouble with the idea that many UFO reports have mundane explanations, so why the reluctance to accept this in the case of abduction reports. As for wanting specific cases, I paraphrase the reply that you usually give to anyone who asks for details of cases you are writing about - basically, work it out for yourself, why should
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:41:44 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:47:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Rimmer >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:54:38 -0400 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:34:11 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:59:13 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained ><snip> >>>QED. >>Queer Educational Deficiency? >>Sleep paralysis may explain a few cases reported as abductions. >>That certainly should be studied and cases should be screened >>for it. When they are, it turns out that the sleep paralysis >>explanation used so sweepingly by the Clancy's of the world is >>rather inadequate for the great bulk of cases.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Pandora's Box - Kritkausky From: Rob Kritkausky <robkrit.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:48:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Pandora's Box - Kritkausky >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:49:24 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Re: Pandora's Box >>From: Joe Faccenda uforth.nul >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:5 6:09 EDT >>Subject: Pandora's Box <snip> >>Can we comprehend the enormity of the changes such a >>revelation would bring? are we ready to open the box? >>The futile attempts of ufologist over the years to extract >>this information shown a naivety on our part, as to what >>exactly our comprehension of Government is, and our own >>comprehension of what we are trying to achieve. >>Disclosure would trigger a chain event that would run right >>across the pillars, feeble as they are, of our society. >>Government collapse, world-wide financial collapse, and >>perhaps world-wide religious upheaval. >>Are we ready for just such an event? >To put it in a nutshell, life on this planet would be forever >changed in such a fundamental way that truly very few of us (and >I exclude myself) can really envisage what it might be like. In >fact, I'm not sure that there's anybody that really knows as I >have found the "After Contact" literature and writings on the >subject to be devoid of any true depth and errr imagination. Stuart/Joe: I don't think there is much debate as to whether such a revelation would cause a disruption, the difference of opinion rests in the extent of the disruption and ultimately its net effect on the current human paradigm. So when push comes to shove, we are really talking about a question of whether or not to introduce a change component to a system without being able to accurately predict the positive and negative effects that change will have on the system. I think there is an important aspect to this that you are not considering, or at least you did not address it. That missing aspect comes in the form of an assessment. What is the current health of the system that will be changed? I think we would all agree that such a public disclosure would not be akin to tossing an apple into Eden. I am a advocate for the practice of "not messing with a good thing". In fact, I would have misgivings about disturbing a functional system, even if it was operating at mediocrity. Neither of these is synonymous with our current situation. Human population is increasing at an unhealthy rate and the social dysfunction within that population is increasing as well. The growing demands for limited resources is resulting in an escalation of tension between counties and cultures. Add to that, religious fundamentalism seems to be in vogue. Finally, where "mutually assured destruction" used to serve as a deterrent to war, we now have a movement that has it as a goal. There is a big difference between introducing change(as an uncertainty) into a system that is operating at a level of imbalance or dysfunction, then there is in incorporating it into a balanced functioning system. One could say that humanity's biggest problem is its inability to see itself as humanity Instead, we choose to view ourselves as members of social groups like Christians, Democrats or Jews. My friend Howard Bloom wrote, "Nothing can unite a people quite like the threat of an outside force on that people". I see this with my son and daughter who are more than willing to hit,scratch and fight with each other, but if someone from outside the family threatens to do such a thing to one of them, they unite rather quickly to protect each other. If contact has been made, it would probably not pose such a threat, but it may prompt us to have an epiphany in which we realize we are individual humans that make up that which is humanity. We will
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Memory Without Klass - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:10:55 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:52:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Friedman >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:25:24 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:48:59 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 06:45:51 -0500 >>>Subject: Memory Without Klass >>>Ref: SDI #361... >>>Memory Without Klass >>>In the early 1980s, Stanton Friedman decided to immigrate to >>>Canada from the US. Forgetting how prescient he may have been, >>>I've heard Mr. Friedman say he did it primarily to take >>>advantage of the superior health system. >>>Philip Klass got wind of it, somehow, and took it upon himself >>>to write the Canadian National Research Council a confidential >>>letter - don't say it was ME, Oh Canada - to warn them about >>>the undesirable element they were getting ready to allow into >>>their country. In effect, Klass was trying to poison Mr. >>>Friedman's Canadian well before he got there, restrict Mr. >>>Friedman's movements, and egregiously intrude on Mr. Friedman's >>>civil rights. The scurrilous and unrepentant _bastard_! >>>In this just discovered letter, by Richard Dolan, Klass warned >>>Canada with regard an "insidious threat" it faced to the >>>security and stability of their country were they to allow >>>Stanton Freidman, a "clutching, octopus-like snake oil salesman >>>and uber-charlatan... a destabilizing UFO believer" (!) ... to >>>immigrate. >>How has this letter just surfaced, and exactly how did Richard >>Dolan get hold of it? I must say I find it very hard to believe >>any such letter was ever written. >>One question: What does Stan Friedman say about it? >>It will not surprise me in the least if fake letters and other >>documents implicating Klass in all sorts of underhand tactics >>suddenly appear, now that he is dead. In fact it is entirely >>predictable. Look at Menzel & MJ-12. >Richard Dolan mentioned about this letter from Philip Klass in >his presentation at Sunday's 'Exopolitics Toronto' conference at >the University of Toronto where Stanton Friedman, one of the >conference speakers, was present in the audience. >Speaking with Dolan just before his talk, I can confirm that he >found Klass' letter to NRC's Dr. Al McNamara was found at the >National Archives in Ottawa during Dolan's visit there this >summer. McNamara was the scientist responsible for the "UFO >files" after Project Magnet, one of Canada's official and >unclassified studies on UFOs, came to an end. Project Magnet was >headed by NcNamara's colleague, the late Dr. Peter Millman, who >was also with NRC. >I suspect that other Canadian researchers such as Grant Cameron, >Chris Rutkowski, Palmiro Campagna and others (including myself) >had seen this letter from Klass but I was surprised that >Friedman and other researchers seemed unaware of it. This was >not the only time that scientists, archivists, etc. had been >"warned" in writing about certain curious UFO researchers in >search of the truth by individuals or agencies. <snip> Couple of quick items. Richard had found the Klass letter and a side commenting letter in the last folder he looked at in Ottawa at the Archives before coming down to Toronto for the Conference not last summer. I had never heard of it and am awaiting a copy. I did not move to Canada to take advantage of the medical system, or to avoid the FBI or CIA (such rumors were about) My wife is one of 9 children. Six live here in Fredericton as did her parents (now deceased) when we moved here. We had no family in California. Houses cost half as much here as there and our home had appreciated. This is a great place to raise a family though it took a while to get used to not having earthquakes, lots of smog, lots of traffic, lots of crime. We managed the adjustment. I am hoping more letters will come to light from Klass. He was a nasty underhanded man. Watch for my monthly column in the MUFO Journal.I am expecting a copy of the letter at some point in time. Richard had to copy down the words and has ordered a copy from the Archives.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Pandora's Box - Faccenda From: Joe Faccenda <Uforth.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:30:19 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:56:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Pandora's Box - Faccenda >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:49:24 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Re: Pandora's Box >But, I can tell you from previous experience in bringing up this >subject on this List, that, unless there has been a sea change, >you will not get much of a reaction. True Ufologists are devoid >of any imagination whatsoever and compensate for this by burying >themselves in facts. It's easier than coping with life in a >developed country. <snip> The reaction was more or less as expected Stuart, dismissed as a non event in one post, and called a parrot in another! I have been in several UFO mailing Lists over the years, Some have enlightened me, others have amused me. This List is probably a combination of the two! If i was to criticise this list in particular it would be in the nit picking, posts gone over line by line for any juicy rebuttals. However this intellectual one-upmanship is just par for most lists, and is no different on this one. To be fair to this List and ufology in general, we are all searching for a 'Holy Grail' in a sea of speculation. The frustration of constantly chasing our tails has led to what could be described as 'jugular ufology' we are not advancing on the outside so we turn in, and rip and tear at each other. We in ufology must at some point redefine what our goals are, and have a far clearer vision of the direction we need to go. We are fragmented and disjointed, we need an organisation a sort of 'Teamsters UFO'! In short, we all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet, rather than the cats chorus as at present. BTW Sorry am busy tonight Stuart, was about to dash off a new theory of relativity!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Alberta Base For UFOs - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:31:58 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:59:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Alberta Base For UFOs - Balaskas >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:35:43 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:25:24 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass <snip> >>I have material (documents, notes from people interviewed, etc.) >>that claim contact was made with the occupants of these two >>mysterious orbiting "meteoroids" and that the Canadian >>Government allocated a military airbase in Alberta as the place >>where these ETs could land without risk of attack or capture. >Wow! Sure would like to see these! Got a scanned version? >Was this event just a contactee claim that was officially >documented? Hi James! It's always a pleasure hearing from you and thank you for keeping me informed on the latest findings regarding UFO sightings by astronauts in space or captured on video by NASA controllers on the ground. As you may be aware, that same year President Dwight Eisenhower disappeared for a while during a golfing holiday in Palm Springs, California where he allegedly made a secret visit to Edwards AFB with friends to meet with ETs. Also in 1954, there is a rumour that Prince Philip, husband of Queen Elizabeth of England (and Patron of The Golf Foundation!), also met with an ET through the efforts of a retired General. The Canadian connection involved the Prime Minister of Canada along with members of the RCMP and the Department of National Defense which allegedly made arrangements to meet with ETs at the secretly constructed UFO landing site at CFB Suffield, Alberta. My sources of this information is Wilbert B. Smith's wife and several Smith's close friends and associates. CFB Suffield also happens to near the golf course at Kananaskis where the world leaders from the G8 countries met in 2002, and two years later, where our Prime Minister's plane had a close encounter with a UFO over the same airbase. Also, one of the very few Canadian military UFO photos that are in the public domain but still remains unexplained is the one taken by Royal Canadian Air Force pilot Childerhose in 1955 west of CFB Suffield. The only contactee claim that I am aware of is by Mrs. Swan who was contact with AFFA, one of the leaders of the two alleged spacecraft in Earth orbit that same year. >>There is a still classified report, 'Project Y', from 1952 that >>I obtained and gave to Friedman at the start of the conference >>which suggest that some UFOs at not from out of this world but >>are our own craft. >You mean you got a classified report? Isn't that illegal? >Do you have a scanned version of it available? It sounds >a little unusual to still be classified but then seeing the >contents would make it clear why. I found this classified report among the massive Winnett Boyd collection now at the archives at Trent University located about a 1 1/2 hour drive east of Toronto. After I photographed the cover of this report along with the accompanying Oath of Secrecy that was signed by Winnett Boyd, I asked the archivist if I could be given a copy of this classified report. The archivist, who knows Winnett Boyd personally, eventually mailed me a copy of this report to my home. Although researchers can apply to have any classified but historical documents they come across declassified, the process is often a long one and usually involves getting the permission of the parties mentioned in these documents. With one such request, amazing and very important Canadian UFO related documents were uncovered that were sent to the U.S. to get their okay for declassification. Not only did we not get their permission, but the Canadian documents were "accidentally" destroyed! BTW - I have been told by a friend of Prof. W's <snip>, the researcher who studied the Earth mesosphere and had observed and recorded UFOs flying through our upper atmosphere, has
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:37:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:08:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace - >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:42:15 -0400 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:22:10 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:28:06 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >><snip> >My advice is we throw in with the Reptilians! Contact Zok, Chief >Cultivator in the Gardern of War, Admiral of the Grand Fleet, >Claw and Fang of the Rebellion and throw ourselves on his mercy. >Up the Rebels, Down the Greys! But Jan: Those Reptilians are so icky, and the Greys less so - unless they show up in your bedroom during the night.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Former Canadian Defense Minister Speaks Out From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:46:03 -1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:10:23 -0400 Subject: Former Canadian Defense Minister Speaks Out Here's a short article on Paul Hellyer based on his presentation at the Exopolitics Toronto Symposium. His verification of Col Corso's testimony is very significant since as a former Defense Minister, he surely would have the kind of access to retired USAF generals that he cites. I think his personal journey to taking on the 'exopolitical cause' reflects the kind of importance many senior statesman attach to their personal networks and the integrity of those close to the action. I think the word is getting out that the 'cosmic watergate' is falling apart. Hellyer is merely the first of what will be many international statesmen coming forward to take up the exopolitics/UFO cause. Aloha, Michael Salla **** Source: http://www.exopolitics.org/Exo-Comment-38.htm Exopolitical Comment # 38 - Former Canadian Defense Minister Speaks Out on Extraterrestrial Visitors & Government Secrecy On September 25, 2005, Hon Paul Hellyer, the former Canadian Minister for National Defense gave a speech in Toronto at an event titled: "Exopolitics Toronto: A Symposium on UFO Disclosure and Planetary Direction" (www.exopoliticstoronto.com) . Hellyer described his time as Minister for Defense from 1963- 1967 where the occasional UFO sighting report crossed his desk. He claims to never have had time for what he considered to be a "flight of fancy", but nevertheless retained an interest in the UFO phenomenon. While Minister for Defense, he was guest of honor at the opening of the world's first UFO landing pad at Alberta, Canada in 1967. He thought it an innovative idea from a progressive Canadian community willing to pay for his helicopter ride, but did not give much thought to UFOs as having serious policy implications. He also describes a private UFO sighting he later had with family and guests, but once again attributed it to a 'flight of fancy' rather than anything having serious policy implications. Hellyer's position on UFOs dramatically changed after watching the late Peter Jennings documentary special, "Seeing is Believing" in February 2005. Hellyer decided to read a book that had been idly sitting on his book shelf for two years. Philip Corso's, The Day After Roswell, sparked intense interest for Hellyer in terms of its policy implications. Corso named real people, institutions and events in his book that could be checked. Intrigued by the policy implications, Hellyer decided to confirm whether Corso's book was real or a "work of fiction". He contacted a retired United States Air Force General and spoke to him directly to verify Corso's claims. The unnamed General simply said: "every word is true and more". Hellyer then proceeded to discuss the "and more =85" with the general and claimed he was told remarkable things concerning UFOs and the extraterrestrial hypothesis that interplanetary visitors have been here since at least 1947. Finally convinced that the UFO phenomenon was real Hellyer decided to come forward and speak at Exopolitics Toronto about some of the "most profoundly important policy questions that must be addressed." (for speech go to: www.checktheevidence.com/video/ ). The policy questions Hellyer addressed in his talk are both profound and vitally important for citizens of every nation of Earth. First, Hellyer claimed that evidence concerning UFOs is the "greatest and most successful cover up in the history of the world". He confirmed that senior political officials even at the rank of Minister of Defense, a position he himself occupied, are simply out of the loop when it comes to information concerning UFOs and visiting extraterrestrials. From a democratic perspective, that raises many concerns about oversight, transparency and accountability of those in control of the information, technology and projects concerning the extraterrestrial visitors. A second profound policy question concerns the designation by the U.S. military of visiting extraterrestrials as an 'enemy'. According to Hellyer, this had led to the development of "laser and particle guns to the point that they can be used against the visitors from space." It is this targeting of visiting extraterrestrials that concerns Hellyer, and he asks "is it wise to spend so much time and money to build weapon systems to rid the skies of alien visitors?" Hellyer poignantly raises the key policy question: "Are they really enemies or merely legitimate explorers from afar?" Hellyer's question raises profound importance in understanding the relationship between visiting extraterrestrial civilizations and world peace. The third policy question arose from the recent decision by President Bush to build a base on the moon. Hellyer believes this is the activation of a plan first launched by Col Corso's mentor, Lt General Arthur Trudeau to build a base from which visiting extraterrestrials could be monitored and possibly targeted as they approach the Earth. Hellyer outlined his opposition to the weaponization of space, something that the liberal government of Canada is currently opposed to. The weaponization of space remains a key policy issue clearly has profound policy issues from the perspective of extraterrestrial visitors to Earth. Finally, Hellyer declared that the "time has come to lift the veil of secrecy" and to have an "informed debate about a problem that doesn't officially exist." Understanding the evidence concerning the UFO phenomenon is vital to fully preparing citizens around the world for the truth concerning extraterrestrials, despite official denial and secrecy by those "in the loop". He calls for major global initiatives to fully prepare global citizenry for the truth. He endorses a position taken by key exopolitical researchers such as Alfred Webre to prepare for a "Decade of Contact" where humanity is prepared for the truth about extraterrestrial visitors through informed debate and education. Paul Hellyer is the first senior politician to openly come out and declare the truth about the extraterrestrial presence. He is blazing a trail that many other senior politicians are destined to take. It will be wise if the world's senior politicians quickly learn more about this remarkable Canadian statesman and heed his important advise about data on extraterrestrial visitors and the "profoundly important policy questions that must be addressed." c. Michael E. Salla, PhD Sept 29, 2005 http://www.exopolitics.org drsalla.nul *** Note: The Hon Paul Hellyer has been invited to attend the forthcoming "Extraterrestrial Civilizations and World Peace Conference from June 9-11, 2006, on the Big Island of Hawaii. For more information and the list of confirmed speakers that include Brig General Steven Lovekin, Alfred Webre, J.D. and Michael Salla, Ph.D. please visit: www.etworldpeace.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Stone From: Dave Stone <dlstone63.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:07:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:12:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Stone >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:40:47 -0400 >Subject: Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO <snip> >Because I'm not totally familiar with all the reported astronaut >sightings, I'd like confirmation from others that what Dave says >about the this particular UFO encounter never being spoken about >by Aldrin before is accurate. <snip> After doing some more digging, I discovered that Aldrin, Collins and Armstrong did report the object in their technical debriefing after they returned to earth. And Aldrin apparently discussed this incident in his book "Return to Earth": http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/8827/astronaut2.html What is interesting is Armstrong's description of the object at
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Toronto Symposium Report #02 - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:50:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:13:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Toronto Symposium Report #02 - White >Source: Eye Magazine - Toronto > >http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_09.29.05/op/wanderingeye.html > >09.29.05 > >Wandering Eye > >U OF T -- Outside Convocation Hall, ... <snip> >Still, not everyone views abduction as a major threat. Paul >Hellyer says he is unaware of anyone dying at the hands of >extraterrestrials. Do I remember a case on a UFO documentary a number of years ago now, in which a dead man, in circumstances suggesting he might have been an abductee, was discovered atop a huge pile of coal, with clothing on but arranged in ways suggesting whoever dressed him didn't know how clothing works?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:07:12 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:14:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Reason >From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:38:22 +0100 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained I'm going away for a couple of weeks, so I'll just add a couple of additional remarks to this before signing off from this discussion (which in any case does seem to be going over rather old ground): >The problem is, sleep paralysis by itself doesn't explain >anything - to arrive at an explanation one has to add additional >speculative mechanisms involving REM-related hallucinations and >"false memory". And while the sleep paralysis component is >fairly straightforward, the other two components are anything >but. A mundane explanation is presumably one which appeals only to known processes which are reasonably well understood. That is certainly not true of "false memory", since there remains an almighty controversy over whether this even exists at all. Hypnopompic imagery by contrast is well-known - here the problem is that we don't have any good reason to suppose the imagery will conform to the specific pattern which the abduction phenomenon requires. Hyponpompic (and hypnagogic) imagery is a form of REM dream imagery and exhibits the same variety of themes. Why then is this variety not reflected in the abduction experience? Where are the Klingons, or the Daleks? Why do we not have cases in which people are sexually assaulted in their own beds by little gray aliens? (Or are there such cases? Perhaps someone here knows of some?) Also, the abduction phenomenon would appear to require hallucinugenic imagery which is both projective and capable of being integrated into veridical visual scenes. But REM-related hallucinations are typically not of this character - hypnopompic imagery may be projected on to veridical scenes, but it does not generally appear to be integrated into them. On the contrary, hypnopompic imagery is frequently immersive in character - one tends to be immersed within the hallucination rather than the hallucination being projected on to an external environment. In this case, the sleep paralysis element would seem to be irrelevant, since one's awareness of one's bodily states during immersive hallucinations is typically not veridical. Also, if we're going to use sleep paralysis (plus accessories) to explain some subset of the abduction phenomenon, then we need to have evidence that the subset to be explained forms a naturally distinct cluster separate from other types of abductions. As far as I know, there is no evidence for any such natural clustering (and plenty of methods exist for locating such clusters). A large overlap between thre explained subset and the unexplained subset would strongly indicate that our "explanation" was solely the result of a selection effect. Contrast this situation with the "Old Hag" scenario, in which each aspect of the phenomenology has a clearly defined, known physiological correlate. Not only that, but it is possible to predict, purely on the basis of the physiology, which features of the Old Hag experience will be invariant across cultures, and which features will not. None of this means that the "sleep paralysis" explanation is defintively wrong for any and every abduction case. But no-one should be under any illusion that this is a "mundane"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:32:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:15:31 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Lehmberg >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:16:01 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:11:52 EDT >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:01 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up ><snip> >>...populated centers account for less than 1% of the >>earth's surface. Chances of a UFO crashing in a >>populated center are less than 1 in 100. >Brad, >It could happen, but hasn't, ever, over many years, which >ameliorates the 1 in 100 ratio. The way I understand how odds work is that they could miss for 10,000 years and still be 100 to 1 tomorrow, and this is forgetting that UFOs have had 'difficulty' and have gone down in or around built-up areas... Flatwoods WV and Aurora TX may not be the best examples. They spring to mind. Moreover, is it reasonable to presume that said UFO in trouble would avoid crashing in built-up areas, if it had any remaining control at all... just to avoid the good citizens below who
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:59:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:16:57 -0400 Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up - Lehmberg >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:15:52 -0300 >Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:11:52 EDT >>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:53:01 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up >>>>From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:15:47 +0100 >>>>Subject: Re: The Global UFO Cover-Up ><snip> >>>>Since we can take it that the US could not and would not manage >>>>to despatch their forces to every nation on earth in the event >>>>of a UFO crash, you now try to persuade us that these countries >>>>could, or would, do it themselves, and silence everyone in the >>>>process. >><snip> >>>>This is simply conspiracy theory gone mad. >>>You are exactly right. But the real fly in the ointment is that >>>is is sheer nonsense to assume that UFO crashes have occurred or >>>only occur in places where the military has "instant" access and >>>outside the purview of the general population (including media). >>>A failed flying saucer, if it really did fail, would have little >>>or no choice of where it would end up. That no population center >>>has experienced such a crash in all the years that these things >>>have been seen goes to the heart of the problem with the >>>conspiracy theory of crashed UFOs and the military's seemingly >>>omnipotent power to constrain any information about alleged >>>crashes. > >>I would generally agree except that populated centers account >>for less than 1% of the earth's surface. Chances of a UFO >>crashing in a populated center are less than 1 in 100. >Gee, last time I checked much of the world's skies were >monitored by radar and since the early 1960s' by spy satellites. >The data from these systems is born classified. >Every country would want to recover stuff coming down from the >sky whether it is somebody's spy satellite, one's own satellites >or reentering rockets, foreign spy planes or a flying saucer. >They ought to be worth quite a bit on the open world clandestine >market. >In addition I know of no country that wants its citizens to owe >their allegiance to the planet instead of that country. >May I remind Listers that 166 Americans were in recon planes >that were shot down or captured without public admission until >not many years ago. There were also a number of Soviet planes >that we destroyed or captured... in silence. >But then perhaps CDA can read all the stuff under the White-out >on the NSA UFO documents and the blackout in the CIA UFO >documents. I can't. >There is a cosmic Watergate.. like it or not. Say... wasn't Watergate a criminal conspiracy and the exposure
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Pandora's Box - Kritkausky From: Rob Kritkausky <robkrit.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:25:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Pandora's Box - Kritkausky From: Rob Kritkausky robkrit.nul To: ufoupdates.nul Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:49:04 +0700 (PST) Subject: Re: Pandora's Box >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:49:24 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Re: Pandora's Box >>From: Joe Faccenda uforth.nul >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:5 6:09 EDT >>Subject: Pandora's Box <snip> >>Can we comprehend the enormity of the changes such a >>revelation would bring? are we ready to open the box? >>The futile attempts of ufologist over the years to extract >>this information shown a naivety on our part, as to what >>exactly our comprehension of Government is, and our own >>comprehension of what we are trying to achieve. >>Disclosure would trigger a chain event that would run right >>across the pillars, feeble as they are, of our society. >>Government collapse, world-wide financial collapse, and >>perhaps world-wide religious upheaval. >>Are we ready for just such an event? >To put it in a nutshell, life on this planet would be forever >changed in such a fundamental way that truly very few of us (and >I exclude myself) can really envisage what it might be like. In >fact, I'm not sure that the re's anybody that really knows as I >have found the "After Contact" literature and writings on the >subject to be devoid of any true depth and errr imagination. Stuart/Joe: I don't think there is much debate as to whether such a revelation would cause a disruption, the difference of opinion rests in the extent of the disruption and ultimately its net effect on the current human paradigm. So when push comes to shove, we are really talking about a question of whether or not to introduce a change component to a system without being able to accurately predict the positive and negative effects that change will have on the system. I think there is an important aspect to this that you are not considering, or at least you did not address it. That missing aspect comes in the form of an assessment. What is the current health of the system that will be changed? I think we would all agree that such a public disclosure would not be akin to tossing an apple into Eden. I am a advocate for the practice of "not messing with a good thing". In fact, I would have misgivings about disturbing a functional system, even if it was operating at mediocrity. Neither scenario is synonymous with our current situation. Human population is increasing at an unhealthy rate and the social dysfunction within that population is increasing as well. The growing demand for limited resources is resulting in an escalation of tension between counties and cultures. Add to that, religious fundamentalism seems to be in vogue and while "mutually assured destruction" used to serve as a deterrent to war, a terrorist movement now have states it as a goal. There is a big difference between introducing change (as an uncertainty) into a system that is operating at a level of imbalance or dysfunction, then there is in incorporating it into a balanced functioning system. One could say that humanity's biggest problem is its inability to see itself as humanity Instead, we choose to view ourselves as members of social groups like Christians, Democrats or Jews. My friend Howard Bloom wrote, "Nothing can unite a people quite like the threat of an outside force on that people". I see this with my son and daughter who are more than willing to hit,scratch and fight with each other, but if someone from outside the family threatens to do such a thing to one of them, they unite rather quickly to protect each other. If contact has been made, it would probably not pose such a threat, but it may prompt us to have an epiphany in which we realize we are individual humans that make up that which is humanity. We will
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:04:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:27:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Chichikov >From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:55:44 -0500 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >Pavel: >I don't know where you got the impression that my post was >positing Jesus as a Space Brother. >My point was that accounts of his resurrection, in the Gospels, >mimic some of the abduction (not contactee) accounts extant. >And to quote St. Paul (Corinthians) is interesting since he >seemed to have had a contactee/abductee kind of experience on >the road to Damascus. Rich, In a temporal and type sense, I'd put it the other way: some of the abduction accounts may mimic gospel and other biblical events. The closest and most meaningful of these mimicries or correspondences that I know of is the experience of Betty Andreasson. When she says after one of them: everything fits, everything is one, she seems to be describing the sort of thing that Christian mystics have felt. She is a self-described Christian. I'm very open to the reality of both abduction and contact experiences, but what the nature of that reality may be is yet to be determined, if ever. Events like Fatima are not part of Catholic core belief, although they may be very important to many Catholics. One is not obliged to believe in, or even take an interest in, Fatima, Lourdes, or any other apparition or locution. Belief in the Resurrection, though, is not optional for
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Gleason & Alien Bodies [was: ET Civilizations & From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:13:47 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:29:52 -0400 Subject: Gleason & Alien Bodies [was: ET Civilizations & >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:31:30 -0500 >Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:22:10 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >>>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:28:06 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Civilizations & World Peace >>I believe that a biography of Jackie Gleason tells the story of >>his playing golf with (then) President Nixon in Florida where >>they had summer homes, and they discussed Jackie's serious >>interest in UFOs. Nixon then allegedly took Gleason to seen an >>alien craft at a local Air Base, and the only person he told of >>this trip was his wife (who wrote the biolgraphy). Maybe the >>game of Golf has some significance in the UFO field.....<g> >This was Gleason's second wife. He was married three times. >Gleason was a notorious philanderer, and the biographer I >consulted on the matter some years ago treated the story as a >yarn Gleason concocted to cover an extramarital tryst. Jerry, If Gleason himself had said he concocted the story to cover his tracks that would be one thing. But for the biographer to merely _conjecture_ this is what happened is another. Basically it's worthless as evidence. >Back in >the 1980s, asked about it by a CUFOS representative (Gleason was >a subscriber to CUFOS' International UFO Reporter), Gleason >himself dismissed the story as an effort by his ex-wife to sell >a book. (Her book was never published; the story from it >surfaced originally in the National Enquirer, back in the day >when it was running UFO material.) >Either explanation strikes me as more sensible than the UFO >claim, which makes no sense for all kinds of reasons. About two years ago, Grant Cameron and myself set out to track down his second wife, Bev Gleason McKittrick. When we located her, the late Kenny Young interviewed her twice by phone. She stuck to the story and she had no books to sell nor obvious motivation to lie about it. If anything, if you read Kenny Young's report, she didn't seem that keen on more publicity. http://www.presidentialufo.com/jackie_gleason.htm She said she didn't know if the story was true, but she insisted Gleason did indeed tell her about being shown the alien bodies by Nixon, and Gleason also being extremely emotional about it. Bev Gleason did do an article for the National Enquirer in 1983, 10 years after Gleason (allegedly) told her, describing the incident (she was confused, and thought it had come out in Esquire.) I tracked down the article by calling archivists for the Enquirer, who kindly looked it up. (That is when I learned that their normal archive in Boca Raton was permanently closed-- it had been the site of the first anthrax attack 4 years ago, which is a whole other story.) She said Gleason was very upset when the story came out, and that is when she began to wonder if it was true and whether maybe he was seeing somebody else at the time. But the main point is, she was adamant Gleason had told her the story, true or not. Gleason could have been embarrassed that she repeated the story because it wasn't true, or he could have been upset because it was true but he didn't want it being public knowledge. Both seem equally plausible to me as reasons for Gleason to deny the story. But I think it very likely he did tell his wife the story. It should also be noted that Gleason was approached by others, such as Larry Bryant, and he would neither confirm nor deny the story. In Bryant's case, he simply refused to respond. For what it's worth, Larry Warren, of Rendlesham Forest infamy, also claimed Gleason told him essentially the same story in 1987 shortly before Gleason died. See: http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc884.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:28:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:32:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:55:15 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: Another Anomalous Shuttle Light Flash Event <snip> >Of interest is the fact that there ARE two observed thruster >firings which does compare with your data set (there ARE two >successive thruster firings by the same thruster). The time >difference between the two is about the same as the observed >light flashes. (about 1.3 seconds). For the moment ignoring the problem with the MCC clock, as you choose to do, there is yet another problem with the thruster firing explanation: the light flashes last only a few hundredths of a second while the thruster fired continuously for almost half a second. The brief duration of the light flash was also a problem with the 1991 STS-48 video. The noticeable light pulse was much shorter than the thruster firing, although the _measurable_ light pulse turned out to actually be much longer than the thruster firing. Not being aware of the latter circumstance back when the STS-48 video was a hot topic, Oberg explained, with his usual condescension, why the flashes are so short- lived: "It should also be pointed out that as all experienced observers of shuttle TV images realize, the visible flare of these jet firings is only an occasional and sporadic feature of their actual firings, which at other times - especially in periods of smooth, stable propellant flow - can be invisible. Therefore the actual start, stop, and duration of the jet firing cannot be determined solely based on visual evidence on the TV image, a fact repeatedly but evidently fruitlessly made known to private researchers." But you are, in fact, claiming that the actual start of the STS- 102 thruster firings can be determined from the light flashes when the flashes could mark the end of the thruster firing or some point in between the beginning and the end. I agree that the coincidence between the elapsed time between the two flashes and the elapsed time between the two RCS firings supports the debris interpretation, but I don't see it as terribly compelling support, particularly when the MCC clock indicates the flashes occurred 6 seconds before the thruster firings you're tying them to. >Is .5 seconds a big deal? Not in my opinion. The 6-second discrepancy indicated by the MCC clock was a rather bigger deal. In my opinion. >The lights moved because of a thruster firing, not due to a >laser shooting at them or some odd electrogravimetric propulsion >system, but due to good ole thruster firings moving good ole ice >or debris particles. According to the MCC clock, the effect (the light flashes) seems to have occurred 6 seconds before the event that you claim caused them, which is something good ole thrusters probably cannot do.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Apollo 11 UFO Encounter - Cohen From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:29:01 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:34:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Apollo 11 UFO Encounter - Cohen >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:01:33 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: Apollo 11 UFO Encounter >>From: Dave Stone <dlstone63.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:14:24 -0700 >>Subject: Apollo 11 UFO Encounter >>To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time that Buzz >>Aldrin, an Apollo 11 astronaut, had ever publicly recounted any >>UFO experience associated with the Apollo 11 moon mission. Also >>of interest, I wonder how the UFO footage that was supposedly >>taken from a later Apollo mission obtained? >I did not see the program but there were two ways to get >footage. One via TV and the other via film camera. Sometimes >they hooked up the film camera to the sextant. >The later Apollo mission footage I would imagine (having not >seen the film clip they showed) had to have something "ringlike" >in it to make sense for the program so I bet its the old Apollo >16 'UFO" film footage which has been shown to be the Apollo >module EVA floodlight. That would be just like TV to show >something that was explained in lieu of non-existent footage. >>Narrator: Traveling along side of Apollo 11 was a mysterious >>object like this one (a ringed object at close range is shown), >>filmed on a later mission. If it wasn't part of their own >>rocket, it could only be one thing, a UFO. >If it was just a photo then there are lots of booster photos >they could use and simulate it to be a film by zooming in and >panning. Hello James, So you are saying that Aldrin does not accurately remember what he saw back then? I thought I heard him specifically speak about this in some of his narratives where he supported the fact the object was never identified. I would think he would have quizzed various NASA people regarding this before making the statement on film. If the program is replayed I will again try to absorb everything he specifically says about it. Perhaps Dave could do the same. BTW, did they lose the floodlight on the Apollo 16? What they showed didn't look like it was attached to the Apollo. Dave, did you happen to notice the number of rings on what they
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Cammack From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:29:38 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:36:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO - Cammack >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:52:01 -0400 (GMT-04:00) >Subject: Re: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO >>From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:38:04 -0400 >>Subject: Armstrong & Aldrin's UFO >>This may or may not have been discussed already and I don't have >>time to peruse all the back mail to find out. <snip> >>However, I just >>saw a program on the science channel which verifies the UFO >>reported seen by Armstrong and Aldrin on their Apollo 11 flight >>to the moon as legitimate and unsolved. (at least to the date of >>the filming.) >Probably is still unsolved. Almost any "UFO" seen in space is >unsolved. Rarely can you be really sure about an object whose >distance you can't judge. Tons of ice and mylar and debris and >trash and who knows maybe a stray alien spaceship every once in >a while. Sorting through that mess makes haystack needles seem >easy. <snip> >Still, after the hoopla, where does it get us? Another UFO story >which is inconclusive. >As I always say, we need some field research. >Look at TAPS and their ghost research. Can anyone say that the >state of the art in UFO field research cannot exceed the quality >of TAPS ghost investigations? If not, maybe we should all go >into ghost hunting instead. Plus the SciFi channel seems to have >gotten them alot of nice equipment and nice digs. Field research, of what sort? I presume you don't mean something as simple as a Sky-watch? or something as different as what the Cseti group used to do with bright lights and meditation? Or how about what they did in Florida where they went to a regular sighting spot on the beach and took photos? How would your
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Memory Without Klass - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:36:29 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:37:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Rimmer >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:03:15 -0500 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:25:51 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:07:11 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>>It is "very hard to believe" only if one doesn't know Klass or, >>>worse, has a glossy-eyed romantic view of him (as in the >>>profoundly silly Fortean Times obit). >>I have the Fortean Times obituary of Phil Klass to hand and I >>can't find anything "romantic" or "profoundly silly" about it. >>Would you care to explain what you mean? >I'm suspect he will, Mr. Harney, but as an ardent >klasskurtxian in your own right, I suspect that it is the lens >_you_ use that sees it as you obviously do. But as you will see elsewhere, Clark refuses to explain what he means. >A little intellectual squeegeeing, legitimate balance, and >karmic evenhandedness would fix you right up, I'm sure. Dig it, >Klass _still_ 'lives'.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Memory Without Klass - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:36:39 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:38:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass - Rimmer >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:49:58 -0500 >Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>From: John Harney <magonia.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:25:51 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Memory Without Klass >>I have the Fortean Times obituary of Phil Klass to hand and I >>can't find anything "romantic" or "profoundly silly" about it. >Why am I not surprised?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:38:02 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:40:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Rimmer >From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:38:22 +0100 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained <Snip> >The problem is, sleep paralysis by itself doesn't explain >anything - to arrive at an explanation one has to add additional >speculative mechanisms involving REM-related hallucinations and >"false memory". And while the sleep paralysis component is >fairly straightforward, the other two components are anything >but. Neither makes any clear predictions about the phenomenology >of abductions, but both are indefinitely malleable after the >fact - they predict everything and nothing, and as a result >explain nothing. One might as well attribute the phenomena to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:02:37 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:43:03 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Shough >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:53:28 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:48:28 +0100 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia <snip> >>There was also an old theory of gravity based on filling space >>with a field of particles that exert pressure from every >>direction, and you could explain inverse square "attraction" in >>a crude way because the angular area of objects that shadow one >>another from the particle flow would vary as the inverse square >>of separation. I don't know if anyone seriously worked this up >>but I've seen it mentioned. Feynman discusses it somewhere. This >>is similar to your proposal. >Yes, Feynman considered that theory and, for same reason that >Michelson-Morley experiment was considered a failure, he >dismissed it because he, and everyone else was considering a >*slow universal pressure (*slow - i.e. light speed or below). extra >gravitational effects when you moved, even uniformly: which >doesn't happen [we don't detect uniform motion']. >But if the universal force were incoming at many, many multiples >of light speed then we wouldn't be able to detect it by movement >because our movement wouldn't be able to make more than a tiny, >undetectable difference. That's one interesting way of looking at it. We all explain these things to ourselves from within our own systems. I would personally prefer to say that the meaning of the relativistic limit of c is that it is a limit on what can be _defined_ as movement (i.e as a space translation). This is exactly why c is a "speed" - a pseudoscalar quantity, not a vector quantity. The Lorentz symmetry-group with c = constant is the group of spacetime. The larger symmetry group containing it will have c as a variable, i.e. it becomes a vector quantity in some "hyperspace". But I am suspicious of the presently popular theories invoking hyperspace manifolds which are somewhat like our "familiar" 4-space writ large (like 11-dimensional M/string theory). I think that the proper nature of this space will be very different and will be a state space for the construction of a quantum gravity theory, where the basis states are not those of particles or of fields but of entities contain the functions of both, and where free translations are not possible - instead the symmetry group will be one of rotations (this being why spin is so important and mysterious a conception in quantum theory). This state space will effectively reify the (notionally) infinite-dimensional phase space of quantum mechanics. I suspect that if and when this sort of approach is understood some completely unforeseeable physics may emerge. http://www.parcellular.fsnet.co.uk/FoundPMindex.htm >That's also real reason why the >Michelson - Morley experiment has not been correctly evaluated. >But we *could* detect a small effect at relativistic speeds - and >NASA has been detecting such a mystery force for about seven >years or more (check "LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY NEWS RELEASE >- September 24, 1998" in Google"). It's too early to claim that the Pioneer anomaly definitely needs new physics. It might, but remember that everyone these days has a TOE that explains the so-called Pioneer anomaly! >>Some properties of mass could be produced by your particle- >>resistance. But one main problem with an idea like this would be >>explaining why Newton's First Law is valid. Why do objects keep >>moving? Inertia isn't just about them sitting still of course, >>but about them needing a reason not to just keep on going. >>Motion ought to be damped out. >Right Martin, and Feynman spoke on that - "The reason why things >coast for ever has never been found out. The law of inertia has >no known origin" (Lecture published as "The Character of >Physical Law" p. 19). I.e. exactly as you went on to say:- >>But GR itself doesn't explain >>inertia; it describes how the spacetime metric responds locally >>to the presence of mass but I personally think some way is >>needed of implementing Mach's principle non-locally to explain >>inertia. >>Intriguing stuff though. >Right again, but now we've got a force that _will_ explain the >"extra" inertia you get by spinning something: a coin, a bucket >of water (Newton) or water filled balloon (Einstein); it's >_got_to_ come from surrounding space and, by Occam, it's the >same force that confers both mass and "ordinary" inertia (only >one force - because mass & inertia are always exactly >proportional). >Which means there's a likely "Inertia Drive" and an "Inertia >Shield" just around the corner from now.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Pandora's Box - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:39:50 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:44:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Pandora's Box - Bourdais >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:49:24 +0100 (BST) >Subject: Re: Pandora's Box ><snip> >To put it in a nutshell, life on this planet would be forever >changed in such a fundamental way that truly very few of us (and >I exclude myself) can really envisage what it might be like. In >fact, I'm not sure that there's anybody that really knows as I >have found the "After Contact" literature and writings on the >subject to be devoid of any true depth and errr >imagination. Yes, this is at the heart of the UFO question. Thre is a great cultural shock ahead, and I can understand that it needs a lot of preparation. That's why no government today is willing to open its "UFO files" all at once, probably. On the other hand, we can see some initiatives going in that direction, step by step. Recently, the Brazilian Air Force has begun such a process, thanks to the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: French 1950 Landing Case - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 03:18:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:46:26 -0400 Subject: Re: French 1950 Landing Case - Hatch >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:17:14 -0300 >Subject: Re: French 1950 Landing Case >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:37:38 -0700 >>Subject: Re: French 1950 Landing Case >>From my page of Discredited Sightings: >>http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html >>! 1950/07/23 GUYANCOURT, FR : 'Lucky Blondeau': >>SCR+2 beings: HOAX per /r30 p655 >>/r30 is the huge celebrated catalog of French sightings >>by Figuet & Ruchon, out for nearly 30 years. >>Blondeau was collared by the police for that fiasco if memory >>serves. I remember a foto of him being hauled in. Few take the >>case seriously I take it. >From what I read of this case above your remarks I'm curious as >to your word fiasco which implies a disasterous attempt at a >hoax that went wrong. Why was Blondeau taken away in cuffs? What >happened to him as a result of being arrested? Was the case not >taken seriously because Blondeau was arrested? >Being arrested in France in 1950 could be accomplished very >easily. It was a police state. Vallee's "Forbidden Science" >makes clear the political condition that existed in France >during this time and was one very important reason why he >immigrated to the United States. Hello Don: Its a good thing you asked, it looks like my memory didn't serve me at all here. The Blondeau case of July 1950 is bogus alright, from Figuet & Ruchon pg.656 (and rather loosely translated on the fly) "IN REALITY, It was a hoax (canular) which, at the time, largely fooled the press. Its Author (Blondeau) has admitted (reconnu') having invented/raised (monte') every part of this story, without saying why however." The guy who got hauled off by the police was almost certainly somebody else. That story was more like an 'abduction', but turned out to be a wild night on the town or whatever. THAT was the fiasco (my term) as it resulted in a lot of needless searching etc., and again, if my faulty memory serves. Sorry for any confusion I caused.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:04:03 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:47:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained - Sparks >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:36:22 +0100 >Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:53:45 EDT >>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:59:13 +0100 >>>Subject: Re: Alien Abduction Claims Explained >>>But sleep paralysis does explain _some_ abduction reports, in >>>the same way that *some* UFO reports can be explained by mundane >>>factors, and research can concentrate on the unexplained cases. >>>But there seems to be the general assumption that there are *no* >>>explained abduction cases. >>>QED. >>Instead of always speaking in the abstract in a nebulous way, >>let's see some actual purported "abduction" cases that can be >>"mundanely" explained. >>Seems to me your strategy is to bastardize the database, much >>like one who hates ball lightning phenomena would adulterate >>cases of ball lightning with all manner of reports of strangely >>behaving lightning bolts, who then turns around and claims those >>who report "ball" or sphere shapes were liars or mistaken. >So what are you saying? That _all_ abduction reports are the >result of unknown and possibly extraterrestrial forces? No-one >seems to have any trouble with the idea that many UFO reports >have mundane explanations, so why the reluctance to accept this >in the case of abduction reports. >As for wanting specific cases, I paraphrase the reply that you >usually give to anyone who asks for details of cases you are >writing about - basically, work it out for yourself, why should >I do all the hard work. >OK? It's _not_ "OK." If you don't have say, a Betty-Barney Hill-type abduction case, that can be explained as sleep paralysis or some such then you're just wasting our time. Do you have such a "mundane explanation" Hill-type case abduction? Or are all you have are some dream-like single-witness bedroom experiences? Let's see such a case laid out, that shouldn't be "hard work" if you know of such a case. Let's see it. You haven't even mentioned any specific cases. By the way I don't buy the "many UFO reports have mundane explanations" propaganda. Very few _properly screened_ UFO cases, as in those put through a competent Hynek Screening, ever turn out to be IFO's or have "mundane explanation." Many so- called IFO's are falsely categorized as such and turn out to be UFO's after analysis and investigation. Most so-called "UFO"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: Pandora's Box - Reynolds From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:49:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:49:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Pandora's Box - Reynolds >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:39:08 -0300 >Subject: Re: Pandora's Box >>From: Rich Reynolds <rrrgroup.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:19:02 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Pandora's Box <snip> >>The worldwide panic/Orson Welles-like debacle is shopworn. >>What happened in 1938 has no bearing on what would happen >>today. We humans have seen and experienced too much since >>then. >Let us not forget that War Of The Worlds presented a very >threatening scenario of very evil, destructive, technologically >advanced Martians destroying New Jersey. >They were not visiting to have coffee, tea or a beer. They were >here to destroy. That is very very different from an official >announcement saying for example that: >"An international committee has been reviewing an enormous >amount of reliable data and has concluded that some UFOs are >indeed alien spacecraft whose purpose does not after all these >years appear to be destructive. >International conferences have been planned to deal with the >religious, economic, philosophical, scientific and other >implications of these visitors. Technical data will not be >released because of its obvious implications for military >utilization..." >Context is very important, I should think. This seems to be how it should be handled, Stan, but in the aftermath of Katrina and the Iraq mess, I wonder if our government (and others) would be as sensible as you posit.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Sep > Sep 30 Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:41:26 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:52:22 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia - Dickenson >From: Eugene Frison <eugene.frison.nul> >To: UFO Updates List <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:10:11 -0300 >Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:18:17 +0100 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:13:23 -0700 >>Subject: Re: UFOs Gravity & Inertia <snip> >Again, Bill, I'm no expert but I wonder if such a process could >really seperate, so to speak, a craft from inertia. I think the >property of inertia is an inherent one that couldn't be gotten >rid of through cavitation or supercavitation. <snip> >But I'd like some input from others who know more about >aerodynamics and cavitation/supercavitation because, to be >honest, Bill, I don't know for sure if there is such a >connection between motion in fluids and motion in gases. Eugene, You've got to be right: inertia can't be separated from a mass simply by by altering its surface conditions; they only lessen effects of atmospheric or fluid drag. BTW, you and me are all brainwashed to think of a gravity "pull" - but that is easily disproved and has been many times. How? In experiments which do lessen the "weight" (apparent gravitational mass) of an object and not the inertial mass - even though the two are normally inseparable on Earth - the experimenter has to introduce a force _above_ the object. If "gravity" were a pull then the experimenter's force would have to be introduced _below_ the object. So, we can change the "weight" of a mass without changing its "inertia"; what about vice versa? Yes - we know it's possible - even spinning an object increases its inertia (Newton's water-buckets and Mach's & Einstein's water-filled balloons) without affecting its gravitational mass or "weight". Therefore by applying a suitable force or field (one with opposite effect to a spin) we could reduce inertia, theoretically even to zero. With zero inertia a mass should theoretically suffer NO effects from acceleration or velocity. (Except physical collisions with other masses - masses _with_ inertia.) For details see: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/sep/m28-025.shtml