UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Presseisen From: Josh Presseisen <josh.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:32:23 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:00:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Presseisen >From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:08:59 -0000 >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? <snip> >Dear Don, Royce, EBK >I do not know how many downloads it will allow so I suppose its >first come first served. >You've got a file called "ufo video - bulgaria - >incredible!.mpg" (9802 KB) from max.burns.nul waiting >for download. >You can click on the following link to retrieve your file. The >link will expire in 7 days and will be available for a limited >number of downloads. >Regular link (for all web browsers): >http://s58.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1O3G1AJQE6MBL17U9XL6KM76Q4 >-----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Aliens On Earth Identified? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:16:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:02:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Aliens On Earth Identified? - Maccabee >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 13:29:16 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Aliens On Earth Identified? >Hi Everyone! >If paleontologist and author Peter Ward is right about viruses >(those pesky things that look like tiny moon landers and which >play no beneficial role in Earth's ecology), then we have our >proof that "they" (these viruses - miniature self-replicating >aliens from space) are already here! >Forget about "Star Wars" and its potential of protecting us from >UFOs. I propose we should begin a "Molecular Wars" crash program >to counterattack against the microscopic invaders who are here >and have the potential of wiping out all 6 billion of us and >taking over our planet.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:17:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:03:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Maccabee >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:29:03 -0800 >Subject: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >Reportedly from Bulgaria: >http://www.lookatentertainment.com/v/v-1783.htm Reminds me of the Aug 1996 Mexico City video of an object that appeared to go behind an apartment building while wobbling and rotating. In that case we found "fingerprints of a hoax".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:17:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:05:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:39:59 EST >Subject: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >Well I'll be gobsmacked! >I was wondering if Art Bell would chime in on former Canadian >Defense Minister Hellyer's campaign to disclose UFO/ET data, and >Art did in a big way. >Yet I was glued to my chair when popular radio host Alex Jones . >spent a good deal discussing the matter as well on his broadcast >today!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Vista Alegre Argentina UFO A Laser Show? From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:20:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:10:01 -0500 Subject: Vista Alegre Argentina UFO A Laser Show? INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology November 30, 2005 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Source: www.rionegro.com.ar Date: 11/30/05 Was The Vista Alegre UFO A Laser Beam? Was the UFO a large laser light show taking place in a neighboring town? The lights seen by residents of Vista Alegre early Monday morning could have had a more rational explanation CORDERO (ACS) - The lights seen by Vista Alegre residents may have formed part of a laser light show that was taking place on the other side of the river, some 600 meters from its banks. These were the words of Cordero Council President Fabian Galli, who explained: "I am not saying that the locals couldn't have seen a situation different to what they describe, nor am I saying that they are lying or anything similar: I suggest that there could have been a mistake." Galli insisted in that he was not "denying" the UFO sighted in the Costa de Reyes area, nor along the Vista Alegre coastal region on Monday morning. "We believe that there might have been some confusion and are therefore contributing this information toward research in order not to alarm people." Due to the alarm on the part of the locals, the entire coastal area became crowded with squad cars from Vista Alegre, Centeario and Neuqu=E9n, while those elements summoned in turn Air Force and aeronautical personnel. Galli went on to describe that at the time when the residents claimed having seen powerful lights in the sky, and which even lit up in a single go an area the size of three large willow trees in the area, there were laser beams being emitted from 21:30 hours to 01:30 hours as part of the last festivities of his community's anniversary, which was on November 15. "As from 21:30 hours we activated an electrical device that is one of a kind in the area and which was lent to us by a neighbor who owns a dance hall in Barda. It produces circular lights at high altitude with constantly gyrating laser-type beams." He described that the beams produced lights in eight concentric circles rotating "at high altitiude" and that the device issued these lights continuously until 1:30 a.m. when they ended with six minutes of fireworks "that produced explosions high in the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Avalle From: Enrique Avalle <enrique.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:24:11 -0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:14:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Avalle >From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:54:12 -0000 >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:29:03 -0800 >>Subject: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >A European researcher handed me the footage while I was speaking >in Paris in the middle of October. I have been showing it to >various people and opinions are, as usual, divided. I sent the >9.5 meg file that I have to a friend but he was unable to make >any definitive statement due to my 9 meg file not being good >enough quality. It is slightly better quality than the one on >the web. I have been trying to find the person who filmed or >made the footage to try and acquire a first gen copy. >Looks great though. Who has the best video software on the List >I can make the larger file available to a number of people if >anyone would wish to conduct a further analysis Hi there people... I am downloading the video... I've worked for several years at different TV stations in my country, as head of graphics dept. I will closely inspect this footage... maybe I can add an opinion later about it. BTW - This is my first post to this List! I am closely following every post.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Avalle From: Enrique Avalle <enrique.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:51:27 -0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:19:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Avalle Hi! I cannot be 100% sure, but my call is that the video is a fake. A good one, with assistance of heavy graphical processing, where the ufo is 3D, the camera movements have been tracked and inputed in the 3D scene, the building on the right appropriately masked in order to make the ufo dissapear behind, etc. I base my opinion in the following: 1) When you track movement in video footage, you must select one or more solid reference images. I think that the guy chose his balcony ceiling as reference. At least for the first part of the video. Problem is that the relation of movement between that and the ufo is not OK because of the distance differences. This I think I can evidence right before he zooms in (and while zooming) because the UFO moves up and down, _not_ related to the movement seen in the clouds behind it. This in itself is not necesary a very solid evidence (after all... if it was a real UFO, maybe it just was in the humor for a bit of vertical shaking, heh) but problem arises when It seems that the ufo movement is quite the same as the movement of the balcony ceiling, hence the UFO coordinates I think that are linked to the balcony ceiling reference. Yes, someone might say "but hey, the balcony gets off the frame, as also does any building... there are lots of frames where the UFO is alone, with only clouds behind... so what could possible the guy use to reference camera movement ?" Well that can be easily answered... as the guy probably did record all the stuff in a bigger frame, where the building and/or ceiling was still on frame, but then when editing all the stuff together, he/she just digitally zoomed in in order to give that extra misinformation..... Anyway... this is only my opinion. Hope it helps.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Secrecy News -- 11/30/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:45:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:30:46 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 11/30/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 109 November 30, 2005 ** PUBLIC ACCESS TO AERONAUTICAL DATA WILL BE BLOCKED ** DOMESTIC MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ON THE RISE ** HEARING: FOIA IN THE 21ST CENTURY ** CIA RECRUITMENT FLOURISHES PUBLIC ACCESS TO AERONAUTICAL DATA WILL BE BLOCKED Extensive databases of aeronautical information that have long been publicly available will be withdrawn from public access next year, a U.S. intelligence agency said yesterday. "The National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) will go forward with its previously announced proposal to remove its Flight Information Publications (FLIP) and Digital Aeronautical Flight Information File (DAFIF) from public access," according to an NGA news release issued on November 29. NGA said that copyright concerns raised by foreign data sources were the driving factor for the decision to withhold the information from the public. Proponents of public access argued that the move was unnecessarily restrictive in its scope. It sets "a very bad precedent" when "the introduction of any copyright-protected material renders a massive public-domain database off-limits to the public," said one subject matter expert who requested anonymity because he works with NGA. "Many, many other databases are at stake." "The decision that NGA should have taken, in my view, was to have offered a redacted version of the databases for public sale. DAFIF -- a really big database -- could easily have been stripped of its Australian-supplied [copyrighted] data and kept public and available," he told Secrecy News. The data withdrawal will be begin in January 2006 and will be completed in October 2007. The NGA did not approve another proposal to withdraw certain paper maps from public access. "NGA has decided not to withdraw paper map products to a scale of 1:250,000 to 1:5,000,000. These products will continue to be available to the public," the news release stated. The industry expert welcomed that decision. But he said that "the unstated reality is that NGA has mostly turned off the oxygen to cartographic production, so few new maps are being prepared as digital masters and even fewer are being sent to the printing press." The NGA proposal to withdraw public access to aeronautical data, which was originally announced in November 2004, drew "numerous comments ... from private citizens and special interests groups." See "NGA to Go Forward with Proposal to Remove Aeronautical Data from Public Access," NGA news release, November 29: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/11/nga112905.html DOMESTIC MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ON THE RISE The military role in domestic intelligence collection appears to be rapidly shifting in subtle and profound ways, as new missions are assigned to little-known military organizations and most congressional overseers are silently acquiescent or actively supportive. One of the public manifestations of the changing landscape is a new Defense Department Instruction that "establishes procedures, and assigns responsibilities ... for the conduct and administration of DoD counterintelligence (CI) collection reporting activities." See "DoD Counterintelligence Collection Reporting," DoD Instruction 5240.17, October 26, 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/i5240_17.pdf The Instruction was issued by Stephen A. Cambone, the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence. His authorities and responsibilities are themselves defined in the updated DoD Directive 5143.01, dated November 23, 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/d5143_01.pdf The expansion of domestic military surveillance was reported in the Washington Post on November 27, and was elaborated with new details by William M. Arkin in his Washington Post blog. See "Domestic Military Intelligence Is Back," November 29: http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/ HEARING: FOIA IN THE 21ST CENTURY The strengths and weaknesses of the Freedom of Information Act were explored in a May hearing of the House Government Reform Committee, the transcript of which has just been published. The lead witness was Allen Weinstein, the Archivist of the United States, who recalled that long before he became Archivist, he sued the FBI under the Freedom of Information Act, which is indeed an excellent credential. Other witnesses included representatives of the Justice Department, the Government Accountability Office, media and public interest groups. See "Information Policy in the 21st Century: A Review of the Freedom of Information Act," hearing before a subcommittee of the House Government Reform Committee, May 11: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2005/foia.html CIA RECRUITMENT FLOURISHES The Central Intelligence Agency is in several respects a wounded agency. Its authority is diminished, and its credibility on everything from weapons of mass destruction to information classification policy is in tatters, leaving it an object of derision. See, for example, "CIA Realizes It's Been Using Black Highlighters All These Years," which is intended to be a satire, in The Onion, November 30: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/43014 But there are still plenty of people who are eager to work there, more than the Agency can even consider hiring. See "It's no secret: CIA scouting for recruits" by John Diamond, USA Today, November 23: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-11-22-cia-recruit_x.htm In recent years, "We had 100,000 applicants for CIA," said Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-CA) at an October 19 hearing of the House Intelligence Committee. "You know how many got looked at? Thirty thousand. Seventy thousand never even got a letter back. That's bad." Speaking of bad, Rep. Cunningham, who was an intelligence subcommittee chairman, resigned in disgrace from Congress on November 28 after admitting that he accepted millions of dollars in bribes and evaded taxes. The public policy consequences of such gross corruption at the highest levels of the intelligence oversight process have barely begun to be assessed. Rep. Cunningham was a reliable advocate of unbending secrecy in intelligence matters. On at least two occasions, in 1997 and 2000, he voted against public disclosure of the aggregate intelligence budget figure - since that would damage national security. _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:42:46 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:32:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Pope >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:46:52 -0600 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:37:24 -0000 >>Subject: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>On November 19 the Daily Express ran a double page article on >>the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident. They commissioned the >>article from me in the run-up to the 25th anniversary of the UFO >>sightings. It's not available online, but the newspaper only >>made very minor editorial amendments, such as changing "light- >>alls" into "lamps", so what follows under the headline below is >>my original submission. >>So what are we to make of all this? UFO believers are convinced >>that the sightings involved an extraterrestrial spacecraft. They >>still hold skywatches in the forest and claim to see UFOs on a >>regular basis. The sceptical theories are almost as bizarre, >>with people variously suggesting that the highly trained >>military witnesses actually saw the lights of a police car, or >>the beam from the local lighthouse. "Lighthouses don't fly", >>Charles Halt observed, incredulously. More rational sceptical >>theories include the testing of some sort of prototype aircraft, >>but the bottom line is that while at any given time there are >>things being developed that you won't see at the Farnborough >>airshow for 10 or 15 years, we know where we fly our own >>hardware. The 'black projects' theory doesn't fly. ><snip> >Does Frank Conde still maintain that it was his police car that >produced the flashing lights in the fog? I don't know. Georgina Bruni raised this with several of the main witnesses and with some other people stationed at Bentwaters/Woodbridge at the time. Nobody recalled Conde (and his first name's Kevin, by the way) being on duty at the time of the UFO sightings, and nobody recalled him playing or even talking about the practical joke that he alleged may have played a part in these events. So even if this alleged prank ever actually happened, there's no evidence to suggest it took place at the time of the UFO sightings. And if it did, it only took place on one night, so couldn't explain both the original Penniston/Burroughs/Cabansag sighting and the later Halt sighting.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 23:01:27 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:35:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Pope >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:38:25 -0500 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:46:52 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>I've listened to this tape and it is kind of chilling. You can >>definitely hear the tension in the men's voices. >It may be my old ears - I'm closer to 70 than 60 - but I could >not distinguish words and could only hear the voice. Perhaps >it's the sound system on my computer - I use a Toshiba portable. There are admittedly some poor copies of the tape out there. However, a few years back, Georgina Bruni acquired the original copy, taken from Charles Halt's miniature cassette. She got this from General Gordon Williams, who'd been sent it by Colonel Sam Morgan. Georgina has acted as consultant on several TV documentaries on the incident, most of which have featured this recording, which is much clearer than previously available versions. The most accurate transcript of the tape appears in Georgina's book on the incident, You Can't Tell The People.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 00:18:02 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:36:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article - Pope >From: Roy Hale <roy.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:11:37 -0000 >Subject: Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article >>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:00:29 -0000 >>Subject: Rendlesham Newspaper Article >>There's a double-page feature on the Rendlesham Forest UFO >>incident in today's Daily Express - one of the UK's best selling >>national newspapers. >>The paper commissioned me to write the article, which runs to >>about 2000 words. It's not available online yet, but I hope it >>will be shortly. If it's not, I'll post the text on my website >>in the next few days. >>There's growing media interest in this case in the run-up to the >>25th anniversary. >Can you tell me if there is a complete database of UFO Sightings >leading up to and after the UFO event at Rendlesham December >1980? Does BUFORA hold such a database, seeming they are the >UK's biggest source of UFO public reporting? If so, how does one >get access to it? >What is the current opinion of today's UFO researchers, as to >what went on at Rendlesham? >Was it a non-human deep-space craft, or completely natural >phenomenon, or military experiments? The Ministry of Defence has records of all sightings reported to the Department at the time. A combination of research at the National Archives and FOI requests should turn up the relevant information. BUFORA aren't the only UFO group that might have useful data, but if you want to contact them about the case, you can do so via their recently updated website: http://www.bufora.org.uk/ As for what UFO researchers think, I leave it to ufologists to say.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 19:54:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:37:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Balaskas >From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:07:11 -0500 (EST) >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:44:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>While we are at it, maybe someone can also comment on the photos >>of this other alien autopsy, allegedly by these named individuals >>in Yugoslavia back in 1966. >>http://www.ufocasebook.com/yugoslaviaautopsy.html <snip> >First logical question, from my point of view: which doctor or >surgeon will risk so much to making such operation on "somebody >from another planet?" He have only simple mask on his face. He >didn't afraid any viruses or bacteria etc? I don't think so. I >think these guys will have very special masks and costumes. Hi Sergey! According to the brief account that accompanies these images, it was believed that "The body, partially burned, was said to be the one of a pilot of the Air Force. They said it was deformed by flames and heat." and not someone from another planet. It is interesting to note that hospital staff were required to wear similar gowns, gloves and surgical masks during the SARS virus outbreak here in Toronto back in 2003. It is recommended that such masks be readily available for use by caregivers and others in close contact with those infected with the flu virus which is spread through large airborne droplets. To me the size and general appearance of this alleged alien looks a lot like the ancient human "Ice Man" that was discovered in the Alps back in 1991 (see URL below) than an ET alien. Not knowingly having met with any ET aliens (as Wilbert B. Smith also wrote in one of his personal letters), if ET aliens do exist, there should be at least 57 varieties of them so that a few of them may look very much like us or the body in these new alien abduction pictures.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:01 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:40:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 05:13:29 -1000 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:28:28 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:49:56 -1000 >>>Subject: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>A Reply to Dr Kevin Randle's Critique of Exopolitics >>>Dr Kevin Randle, has produced a thoughtful critique of my >>>reliance on whistleblower testimonies as a basis for getting to >>>the truth about the UFO cover up and the extraterrestrial >>>hypothesis. See "Exopolitics", 18 November 2006 >>>http://www.kevinrandle.blogspot.com >><snip> >>>This is an important process issue that whistleblower >>>testimonies force researchers to confront, albeit with great >>>reluctance as evidenced by Dr Randle's critique. I nevertheless >>>thank Dr Randle for providing his critique and giving me an >>>opportunity to reply, and explain the appropriateness of my >>>exopolitical approach to whistleblower testimony. >>Michael: >>You really don't seem to understand or don't want to. >>That Dean may have been at the place he claims and with a >>clearance doesn't explain how he would have had a need-to-know >>for the document he supposedly saw. >Dean did not claim he had a "need to know", only that the >Assessment had Ultra security compartmentalization in addition >to the Cosmic clearance that all who worked in SHOC had. >According to Dean, only officers had the Ultra clearance and >Dean did not. Yet Dean was in charge of the Duty Roster for the >officers and was highly regarded by them, in a collegial >environment. Clearly, Dean was in a position to give favors in >terms of plum times to officers, and this was implicitly >understood by them. While I understand Kevin Randle's point that >the Colonel's giving the Ultra classified Assessment is a >security violation, I think it can be inferred he was doing a >favor to a respected NCO who worked in the highly secure SHOC >war room. It's natural to assume that in the collegial >environment of SHOC, such favors happened and would be returned. >I think your and Kevin's hard-line position that this would not >occur overlooks what appears to have been a very collegial >environment and the fraternization that occurs between senior >NCOs and officers. While Dean has not offered hard evidence, his >prestigious service record and laying his reputation on the line >in coming forward warrant serious consideration of his >testimony. Combined with Dean's clear sincerity, consistency, >detailed knowledge, and physical placement in SHOC, I conclude >Robert Dean is credible and his testimony worth accepting. There are so many "facts and "conclusions" that are wrong here that I don't really know where to begin. You're suggesting some sort of system in which the officers reward Dean for "plum" times in which they perform their duties. This is just wrong on so many levels and smacks of what might be acceptable in the corporate or academic worlds but that will see officers and NCOs court martialed in a military one, especially since it compromised a highly classified document. You admit that Dean had no "need to know" yet suggest this was violated as payback for the "plum" times. This suggests the flaw in your thinking and once again leads to compromise of the classified material. If true, this, in and of itself would lead to the investigation and court martial of the individuals involved. But the real problem here is that this does not, nor did your response, address the key points which is that no one seems to be able to verify the existence of The Assessment and that the cover page offered by Dean as evidence has been discredited. (No, I won't go over all of that but suggest that those who are interested look at www.KevinRandle.blogspot.com for the information). This is the key to understanding, and if I might presume on Stan's behalf, one of the reasons for rejecting Dean's tale. Yes, Dean is a seeming sincere man who has a detailed knowledge of the workings of NATO but this does not prove his tale to be based in reality. We have no evidence, beyond Dean, that "The Assessment" ever existed, his tale violates many rules and regulations, and those who would have had access have universally denied "The Assessment" ever existed. I simply do not understand how you can suggest that we take this story seriously. Investigation demands some sort of corroboration and we have none. Until and unless there is some confirming evidence, this story doesn't even belong in the gray basket. It belongs in the waste basket. <snip> >>I recognize that you will believe what you want to believe. >>Kevin and I accept that Roswell happened and there is a Cosmic >>Wartergate. But each claim must be evaluated before being >>blindly accepted as you have. Do you really think a Senate >>Committee in Ottawa will blindly accept all claims because you >>and Alfred and Hellyer want them to? I understand he was treated >>with disdain by the Fox reporter. >I don't "blindly accept" any whistleblower's claims just as you >don't "blindly reject" any whistleblower's claims. I do the >research and investigation where possible to determine their >veracity, and rely on researchers who have done field >investigations to reach an overall conclusion on their >testimony. I don't think taking a parsimonious approach to >whistleblower testimony that is skewed by unreasonable demands >for documentation and hard evidence gets us very far in >understanding what has happened with UFOs and the ETH. Yes, >Cosmic Watergate does exist and Roswell did happen, but there is >much more that has happened over the last 50 years and you >consistently debunk those like Corso, Dean, Lazar, etc., who can >fill in the gaps, and get us to the next stage which is >assessing the policy implications of Cosmic Watergate. >As for the Canadian Senate, I think you miss the point. When >someone with Hellyer's credentials comes forward to support >Corso's claims, people have great difficulty in ignoring what >Hellyer says. The fact that Hellyer confirmed Corso's claims >through his own network of military and political contacts, is >something that makes others think anew about Corso's testimony >and its implications. I believe that what we are witnessing is >the start of a political process whereby Canada may be the >world's first legislative body that discusses the policy >implications of the weaponization of Space in relation to the >extraterrestrial hypothesis. That is a positive development and >I hope you lend your support to it based on your Cosmic >Watergate thesis, rather than doggedly stick to your position >that Corso's testimony is invalid. You are wrong about Corso and >it's time you reconsider your position. Unless there have been new developments, my understanding was that Hellyer said that he had spoken with an unidentified Air Force general who said that Corso's story was accurate. This is not the same as Hellyer confirming Corso's claims through a network of military and political contacts. It can also mean that this unidentified general knew that the story of the crashed saucer was true, that Corso had written about the crashed saucer, so the overall broad strokes were true but not necessarily the finer details such as Corso's implausible tale of seeing the body of an alien in a wooden shipping box at Ft. Riley, Kansas. I'm very much afraid that we are not wrong about Corso. He provided nothing to confirm his tale and showed his true colors with his actions with the Foreword of his book, the embellishment of his credentials and the injection of himself into several UFO stories. And contrary to your claims, these are not minor
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Fleming From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:21:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:54:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Fleming >From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:36:53 +0000 >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? <snip> >"Good Evening. The video issued to me has been sent towards the >end of June. According to my memory the sighting may have taken >place around the half of May; The witness who took the video is >a girl that my friend knows " and: >I have tried >to recontact the person who sent it and tried to find out if >someone knows her but for the moment I have not been successful >to trace her by telephone or via email.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 1 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:29:04 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 08:57:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:41:28 -0400 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:28:28 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:49:56 -1000 >>>Subject: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>A Reply to Dr Kevin Randle's Critique of Exopolitics >>Do you really think a Senate Committee in Ottawa will blindly >>accept all claims because you and Alfred and Hellyer want them >>to? I understand he was treated with disdain by the Fox >>reporter. >The only thing I will comment on here re this thread, Stan, is >your last remark re the Fox reporter's disdain. The Fox network >should carry little weight on anything. Fox is so heavily biased >toward Bush and is - if memory serves - owned by Bush's brother- >in-law or some such relative. It's credibility is highly >questionable. Don, List, All - If you'll forgive me, but I don't believe that our political opinions, such as this should appear in this forum... especially
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Filer's Files #49 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:01:13 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 06:42:09 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #49 - 2005 Filer's Files #49 - 2005 George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International November 30, 2005, Webmaster Chuck Warren www.nationalufocenter.com Pyramids and Civilization This week's files cover: Senator Barry Goldwater was told UFO evidence existed in the Blue Room. Mars - Artificial Pyramid Construction, and Creation Was an Intelligent Project. In addition, witnesses saw UFOs over California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington, and. Wisconsin. Many witnesses saw UFOs in Argentina, Australia, Canada, Mexico, and the United Kingdom. The purpose of these files is to report weekly the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world. These Files assume that extraterrestrial intelligent life not only exists, but my hypothesis is that of the over one hundred UFOs reported each week, many represent alien craft. The United States Air Force Project conducted a worldwide investigation of UFOs from 1947 until December 1969, when it disbanded its investigative team. We are continuing the investigation. Senator Barry Goldwater was told UFO evidence existed in the Blue Room Senator Barry Goldwater (R Arizona) was defeated in his run for President by Lyndon Johnson. He was also a Brigadier General in the Air Force Reserve and a pilot. He stated, "It is true that I was denied access to a facility at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, because I never got in. I can't tell you what was inside We both knew the rumors concerning a captured UFO and crew members. I have never seen what I would call a UFO, but I have intelligent friends who have." From a letter dated April 1979. Senator Goldwater was told that physical evidence existed in the "Blue Room" at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. While visiting the base, he asked General LeMay if he could go inside the room. LeMay said, "Hell no, you can't go. I can't go, and don't ask me again." Goldwater stated, "I recall the case in Franklin, Kentucky when four military planes investigated a UFO. One of them exploded in midair and no one knows why." In an interview on the Larry King show, Goldwater stated, "I certainly believe in aliens in space. They may not look like us, but I have very strong feelings that they have advanced beyond our mental capabilities. I think some highly secret government UFO investigations are going on that we don't know about-and probably never will unless the Air Force discloses them." Mars - Pyramids and Civilization The Great Pyramid at Giza Egypt is the largest stone building ever constructed on Earth. No one denies that an ancient civilization built it at least 4000 years ago. The most amazing feature of the Great Pyramid is its location outside Cairo which means Mars in Egyptian. With satellites modern man has been able to determine that the Great Pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of Earth. We must assume the builders had advanced science and geography data and knew the size and shape of the continents on a global scale. The basic dimensions of the Pyramid also include measurements of the size and shape of the Earth. According to William Fix, "Three key precision measurements of the Earth are incorporated into the Great Pyramid. First, the perimeter equals half a degree of equatorial latitude. Second, the perimeter of the sockets equals a half minute of equatorial longitude, or 1/43,200 of the Earth's circumference. Third, the height of the Pyramid, including the platform, equals 1/43,200 of the Earth's polar radius. Fourth, it is located at the geographical apex of the delta of the Nile River. Fifth, its four sides are aligned exactly with the cardinal points of the compass, with such precision that could not have been accounted for by a primitive agrarian society. These are well founded objective data. They constitute the first conclusive evidence of a scientific civilization as high as our own in deep antiquity. There is a worldwide prehistoric pattern directly contradicting the idea that man evolved from semi- barbarism in the last 8000 years. It shows instead that scientific, artistic and engineering accomplishments are often greater, the further back in time we go. All other pyramids may be copies. (Pyramid Odyssey WM. R.Fix) We are told the Great Pyramid was built by Egyptians in the period 2500 to 2000 B.C.- -using a hundred thousand men working for twenty to thirty years with primitive tools made of copper. Engineers and builders have started to question the Egyptologists explanation of how the pyramids were actually built mainly because the primitive tools could not have cut the stone as suggested. We are told huge ramps were built and raised for each level of building stones weighing as much as 70 tons - as much as a locomotive. The base stones weigh as much as 300 tons. The conventional academic thinking regarding prehistoric society is apparently wrong or misunderstood. I have visited several pyramids and their is little evidence that Pharaohs had been buried within the Pyramids. They seem to have had another purpose. Builders of the Pyramid had knowledge only reached today by our advanced civilization. Some experts claim the design of the Great Pyramid and two joining pyramids suggest it is much older than assumed, based on its alignment with the Constellation Orion. It is apparent that both Mars and the Earth were bombarded by meteorites and the Pyramids would provide excellent protection against smaller meteorites. Aerial View of Pyramids at Giza The Giza Great Pyramid is 483 feet high and houses seventy-ton pieces of stone lifted to a level of 481 feet. Moving granite of this weight today with the most modern cranes would be difficult. Primitive methods even with the use of thousands of people do not appear capable of meeting the narrow building requirements. The entire pyramid was once covered with white casing limestone weighing 16 tons each that glistened in the sunlight. The stones were cut to within 1/100 of an inch of mathematical perfection. With the primitive copper tools available to the Egyptians, it would have been very difficult to precisely cut the stones to fit and place them into position. There are three pyramids at Giza, each of which once had an adjoining mortuary temple. One part of the mystery is why build the Great Pyramid in shape and size similar to those found on Mars. In addition, in ancient time the Sphinx was painted red and pointed east toward the rising Red Planet. Egyptologists explain the Great Pyramid was built to house the body of King Khufu, also known as Cheops, that hieroglyphics and technological advancements came from the Gods. Perhaps the chief inspector and priest of the pyramids, had knowledge of the Pyramids on Mars. Both sets of Pyramids contain mathematical data that is too complicated to be caused by chance. There are too many similarities to be sheer coincidence. California Silver colored Sphere Shaped CHATSWORTH - At 4 PM, on November 13, 2005. I walked outside in my backyard and as I usually do, I looked up and saw a silver colored sphere shaped object. I looked very hard to see if I could make out the shape of an airplane. Well it was not an airplane, so I just kept my eyes on it to see where it was headed. It traveled in a south westerly direction. I'm not good about measuring height, so I think it must have been at least a thousand feet or maybe more. It traveled in a straight line and didn't change direction at all. The other thing I noticed was some kind of streamer like thing hanging under it and moving in the wind. I then thought maybe it was a balloon with a ribbon on it, but it would have been to high for me to see a thin ribbon at that height. I followed it until it passed over my house, then ran out to the front to see if I was able to still see it. It was gone. I looked and checked out the sky, but it was gone. Thanks to Brian Vike NAPA - On November 15, 2005, at 8:35 p.m., my friends and I were driving down Highway 80 trying to get to the mall. I stopped at a red light and saw triangle shapes in the sky but I did not tell any one because I wanted to get the description. First I saw one triangle shape with three bright lights. Then my friend turned left and I saw it again 5 minutes later. If you have any questions please e-mail me. SAN MARCOS - I received a new pair of German binoculars and put them to good use on little breaks on November 1, 2005. I had two sightings. One at a great distance of a dark object that maneuvered in a random way and disappeared. The second was closer and was a drifting saucer shape, bright, at quite a height and distance. I watched it drifting against the direction of the clouds movements for a minute, then attempted to increase my focus to higher power, and lost it. Chemtrail sprayings in the past two days may have a relationship to sightings. These were daylight sightings and took no more than maybe 10 minutes of looking. Observation of visible shape in daylight is far more definitive than "lights" in the sky. All a person has to do is look up! The binocular is the best tool so far to have a sighting without any doubt. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org Colorado - Strange Huge Orbs LYONS - Jim Bradshaw writes, "He saw an object come up out of the trees and rise to the level of the Moon, while taking pictures to the East.. The orb seemed to be about a mile away and was much larger than the Moon shown to the left of the light. He was using two 35 MM Pentex Cameras. The Pentex Camera program Plus was on a tripod, and the VXM 35 mm Pentex with 800 ASA Film was mounted on a telescope. The close up was taken through O' Ryan Refractor 120 mm telescope. Florida - Sightings Continue NAVARRE - Brian Vike has spoken and received to and received a number of emails from residents who reside in Navarre, Florida. These folks/eyewitnesses have observed some strange lights moving slowly through the sky at a low altitude. The lights varied in colors. Some footage has come into me here and it is rather interesting. I also have been speaking to a reporter for the Navarre Press, a weekly newspaper serving southern Santa Rosa County in Florida and they have told me they know of a number of other eyewitnesses to the sighting. Plus from my searching I have heard of a "great" number of other eyewitnesses to this unusual event. Until it can be solved, it will remain unknown at this time. So I am requesting if anyone has seen the lights on November 7, 2005 at between 630 and 7:00 p.m., would you please be kind enough to contact me here at HBCC UFO Research. Illinois - Triangular Shaped Craft MURPHYSBORO LAKE - Six witnesses in August 1994, saw 1, 2 or 3 objects, depending on if they could morph or camouflage their appearance. Coming home from fishing my five friends and I saw very large pyramidal type black ship between 8 and 9 PM. At first, we saw a strange "star" that seemed to be shadowing us and was hovering over a field in the east 250 feet off the ground, 150 yards away. The object was spherical, pulsating, orange, yellow, and gold and keeping pace with us. We made a right turn at a "T" in the road to try to cut off the pulsating light. The light turned right exactly when we did and maintained an exact parallel course to us and then became brighter and flew right over our heads ever so silently. We stopped the car and only 100 yards away in the forest was a large pyramidal structure hovering in the dense 100 year old oak and hickory trees. The forest was dense but the object was not. There was a silver strobe light at the apex of this pyramid flashing at a quick rate and lighting up the entire forest. My friend says, "Lets go meet the aliens." We thought about it and decided we should leave since the pyramid craft was the size of a large house or more. We raced off to John's place, to talk with him and his friend about the UFO. Six of us were standing by his pond facing when an object flew toward us. The ship was a triangular shaped craft when viewed from the underside as it floated silently with three amber, yellow colored lights on the corners. There was one large circular bluish white light in the center of the underside, which cast light directly down in a tube. There was a search light scanning the area and lighting up the surrounding trees. The craft came to a pause directly above us at about 75 feet, and was completely silent and almost the size of a football field. Looking up the side of the craft, it ascended to a peak about 75-100 feet above the base of the craft. I knew there were "people" of some kind in that craft. There was a red light zinging around the dark metal triangular pyramid. It is my opinion that this ship can somehow shift, or phase from place to place and can exist in the same place at different times. The craft hovered above us and changed my life forever. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org . Nevada - Spinning Tops LAS VEGAS - Scott writes, 'I know what the black triangles are. Or maybe I should say I have seen them from a better vantage point. I see them all the time as a matter of fact. They are not triangles. They are rounded actually and resemble cones, or spinning tops. Sometimes they appear as diamonds. Night time is when they are most active so when their lights are on they are triangles, meaning what I see is a triangle just like others. These are fourth dimensional craft and a lot of what they do is flat out indescribable unless you see them like I do. I have hundreds of photos of these craft but I rarely send them to anyone anymore. See my enclosed photo of what I'm talking about. Thanks to Scott.Nevada More Unknown Object Witnessed[] LAS VEGAS - Around 3:00 PM, the witness viewed two parallel double vertical silver spheres that had a blue tinge on November 12, 2005. They stayed the same distance apart (parallel) the whole time as they moved over head. Two minutes later double vertical spheres appeared , one was gold that moved slowly overhead. Then, five minutes later the two parallel double spheres reappeared exactly the same. They also moved slowly overhead and stayed parallel to each other, with a blue twinge in color. It does not matter what kind of air traffic, the sightings continue. The only thing that seems to stop them is a complete cloud cover. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org . New Mexico Triangle & Multiple Shapes SOUTH ESPANOLA - The dogs were barking at my house on November 20, 2005, so I looked out of my window and saw a very bright light. My cousin and I went outside and saw the object moving like no aircraft I've ever seen. I, then, decided to get my video camera and record it. We recorded for awhile, then decided to get a flash light and try to signal it. I was just messing around and it started to blink back at me. It would also appear to go far, far away then come back really fast. I recorded through out the night getting some very bizarre footage. Lot's of lights making different shapes. At times blinking red and blue colors. We watched from 11:30 PM to 4 PM. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org . North Carolina - Object Bathed in Light BURLINGTON - On November 13, 2005, two witnesses saw an object move across the sky toward the horizon at incredible speed at about 9 PM. It was going too fast to have been an airplane and I've never seen a shooting star cover that much sky at full brilliance before disappearing. While I couldn't make out an actual craft, we both saw it and it didn't leave a trail behind it as a shooting star would. It moved too fast to be mistaken for fallen debris. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org . New York State UFOs FINGER LAKES REGION - Brian Vike has heard from numerous folks who have personally witnessed very unusual crafts, lights, circles in some of the fields in the Finger Lakes Region. Thank you, Brian - Director HBCC UFO Research.org. A possible abductee writes,"Most recently, I have seen strange things here over Seneca Lake. I moved here about four months ago, and I believe that there is a fair amount of activity here. I have witnessed multi colored flashing craft that I saw from my front yard. I watched it for well over 40 minutes, it was hovering over the national forest. This was the first week in November 2005. The other sighting here was my first week in my new house. I was standing in my front yard with a friend, and he pointed straight up into the sky. What I say was cigar shaped, and very large. It seemed low, but I heard no noise. It was moving north, the bottom of it had white lights all around it. We watched it until we could no longer see it. I was asleep one night and woke up, laying still, I looked around to see what awakened me. I felt nervous, my daughter was asleep in her room, and I didn't want to get up. All of a sudden, there was a very bright light coming in from my kitchen door window. It seemed to flood the house. The light moved, from that window around the house to the windows over the sink, until it was pouring in every window. I told my mother about it, and she told me that as far back as she could remember, her mom (my grandmother) used to sit in their farmhouse living-room (atop a very high hill) and watch the sky for "the lights". What else, the scarier things. About 6 years ago, I lived in Cape Coral, Florida. I was asleep in my house that I shared with my boyfriend there. I woke up abruptly to him on top of me. Long story short, his voice wasn't his. He kept saying "do not fight" and trying to have intercourse with me. I finally was able to push him off me, and he rolled over apparently asleep. Obviously, I was very disturbed. The next morning, a co-worker came in and asked us if we has seen the "lights". There were numerous sightings over the canals where we lived and it was all over the radio news that morning. Thanks to Brian Vike OHIO - Sightings SOUTH WEBSTER - Dave writes,"What did the Native Americans say when they saw the Pilgrims land at Plymouth Rock? "Oh no, more illegal immigrants!!" I have seen those triangles escorted by what looked like DC-10's flying toward Wright Pat AFB. They are silent and with odd lighting. The chemtrail jets have red, white and blue strobes and fly sometimes 6 at a time; at least I count that many while looking up at night. Very patriotic; and sociopathic. Sociopatriot. Thanks to Dave FOSTORIA - George Ritter sends this strange shot of a UFO taken with his video camera on October 15. The object is moving at high speed causing the blurring on the photo taken from the video.[] Tennessee - Sky Blackened by Craft HAMBLEN COUNTY - A truck driver reports that at 1:35 AM, he was proceeding northeast on Interstate 81 under a star filled sky on November 5, 2005. As he drove he noted that there was an area ahead in the sky strangely devoid of stars. He stopped and exited his truck and saw two separate areas of the sky devoid of stars. The two were triangular in shape and moving slowly west. He states, "I watched the objects move steadily, slowly, silently, as the stars disappeared and reappeared. After some 15 minutes, he had to leave the area and continue with his work. Thanks to Kim Shaffer, State Director for Eastern Tennessee, shaffer56.nul BRISTOL - Do you believe in UFO's? If so, you're not alone. Many people in Middle Tennessee say they've seen them and one man is making it his business to find out just what those UFO's are. Maybe you've seen lights and objects in the sky you can't identify. But if you tell Kim Shaffer about it, he won't laugh. He'll want to hear every detail so he can make an accurate record of it. As head of Tennessee's Mutual UFO Network, he says he's seen the mysterious objects. "I don't obsess over it. It's just a fact of life that we saw something we can't explain," he says. He and his son shot video of a flying object spinning and tumbling over their Bristol, Tennessee, home in 2003. Kim is a Navy veteran that has seen lots of conventional aircraft, and he says this wasn't one of them. "It was actually the most perfect thing I've ever seen. And to explain it, I can't," he says. "It defied laws of Physics, it defied laws of flight. It was powered. What it was, I can't say." As head of the UFO Network, he doesn't necessarily believe in aliens. But he says UFOs are worth studying and they've been with us for thousands of years. "I think Ezekiel saw a UFO, for lack of a better term. It was a flying object, and it was unidentified," says Shaffer. "The accounts of UFO sightings really seemed to start taking off in the 1940's. They've been seen at night, and in broad daylight, and many of the sightings happened right here in Tennessee." There reports of UFO's stretch the entire state from Dandridge, to Paris, Lakewood, Gallatin, Franklin, and in Bristol. Many of the reports Shaffer receives involve the so-called black triangles. In fact, a friend of his had a recent encounter with one which he claims left him terrified and physically scarred. Was it ETs or a military experiment? Shaffer doesn't know, but believes the answers lie in the evidence. Right now, he wants all the evidence he can get. "When we take a piece of video footage, for example, and we have it analyzed by the best of the best optical physicists in the country. They can't identify what these things are," said Shaffer. Appalachian UFO Research Center Thanks to Kim Shaffer Virginia - Glowing Golden Object WASHINGTON COUNTY - Report from a VDOT employee who stated that he was proceeding north on I-81 around 10 PM, about June 10, 2005, when a glowing golden round object descended ahead of him on the interstate and paced his car for a few seconds. Three persons were in the car, all having seen this object. After a few seconds, the object sped away ahead of them, disappearing from sight. Thanks to Kim Shaffer www.auforc.com Washington Flashing Lights SEATTLE - It was a clear night and the moon was almost full and bright on November 16, 2005, at 11:55 PM, when we saw intermittent flashing red, white, and blue lights. It remained motionless for about 15 minutes. It clearly was not an airplane or helicopter. I took out my binoculars and watched it for the duration. Thank you to the witness for the report. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org . Wisconsin - Small Drops From Object FREDERIC - On November 03, 2005, at around 3 AM, I woke up on the floor in front of television. I turned off the T. V. and rolled over and was looking at the sky out the patio door. I noticed this small white light that seemed to come out of what looked to be a star. The light did not move at the speed that a falling star or meteor would have. It seemed to kind of float down slowly until it disappeared behind the ridge of the valley we live in. I did wake up the wife when I started hollering look, look, wow look. http://www.hbccufo.org . Argentina: Circular UFO Presence NECOCHEA - Inexplicata editor Guillermo D. Gimenez reports at 11:40 PM, on Sunday, November 20, 2005, a large multicolored object was seen over the seacoast in the extreme southeastern corner of the Province of Buenos Aires. Numerous eyewitnesses saw the maneuvers of a large circular object over the sea and heading south. The object issued a variety of lights colored blue, red, yellow and white without making any noise Eight workers in Necochea's breakwater saw the object's maneuvers and said, "All of us were exhilarated as we worked at the tip of the breakwater - we could see the object, which emitted multicolored lights over the sea. Finally, after several minutes of observations, it lost itself heading toward Punta Negra in the darkness of the night." Translation (c) 2005. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU). Australia - Flying Triangle QUEENSLAND - Ross writes," This picture was taken recently that appears to be a flying triangle. It headed east where it "blinked out." This is another regular visitor over my home in North Queensland, where we see this at least once a month. It moves at times with great speed, while at other times it moves so slowly that any aircraft would stall out of the sky. Whatever velocity it travels, it creates no sound. Thanks to Ross Canada - Beam Moved in Intervals SCARSBOUGH - Paul Shishis writes, "On Thursday, November 24, 2005, at exactly 9:30 AM, at our work parking lot, I watched a large plane flying southeast but there was something else 1500 feet below the plane." This whitish object flew straight south at about 150 mph+. I watched it for about 15-20 seconds and then, lost sight of this round white object. Later, at about 10:15 AM, the roll-up dock door opened suddenly, and then shut back down by itself. Another UFO was sighted at 3:25 PM, above Lake Ontario. I called a truck driver over and he also saw the object, but saw it as a light. I, then, snapped some pictures, before the clouds moved in to screen the object after 5 minutes. About 20 minutes later, as the clouds moved on, we spotted the object, more of a westerly position. I than collected two co- workers and took the picture attached in this report. You can see the white dot, below the bird in flight in the left side of the photo and above the top hydro line. Keep up the good work. Thanks to Paul Shishis FALKLAND, BRITISH COLUMBIA - Five years ago I saw what had looked like a spotlight but the beam seemed to move in intervals. It was out in the mountains and seemed to be going up. I remember it being there for a long time (10-15 min) and going away when my mother came, then suddenly re-appearing a few minutes after she left for about another 5 min. or so. I do not remember seeing a source at all but light seemed to go nowhere, almost stopping in the air into darkness. It was two feet in diameter and the spotlight stayed in parallel lines and pulsed towards the sky. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org . Mexico - Intense Object In the early hours of September 18, 2005, I saw from my window a very intense object that appeared to spin on its own axis, emitting strong multicolored flashes. Upon looking at it through binoculars, I noticed its peculiar shape and special characteristics. The element featured on its upper section drew my attention. It is relevant to note that when I began recording, I noticed how small red spheres were emitted from this large object. At some distance from it, there was another large structure, cylindrical in shape and white in color, that could be seen unaided. Unfortunately and inexplicably, my video camera behaved erratically, damaging the first tape I employed. Even with this setbacks, it was possible to record this sighting for nearly a minute, while electrical current fluctuations became apparent. I do not know if it was mere coincidence or if this luminous object caused changes in the utilities. U. K. - Large Diamond Shaped Object LEICESTER - On November 8, 2005, at 22:20 hours a low flying circle of lights was seen below the cloud level. It was large, round, covered in lights but made no noise as it moved about the same speed as a plane. It was a very clear sighting of a round object probably twice the size of a passenger plane, but covered in lights mainly white with the odd red, green, and blue lights but comparatively few colored lights. It made no noise. Eye Village Near Peterborough - This morning while checking the overnight CCTV footage for my home, I came across a strange sequence of two orbs moving across the top edge of the screen and then rising vertically out of view. At first, I thought it was the reflection of headlights from a neighbor's car as they went to work at 06:27 AM, on November 2, 2005, but when I checked the other three cameras there was no evidence of any vehicles. Checking previous video archives, there has been no other time where anything like this can be seen. My location makes it easy to see anyone coming or going as there is only one way in and out, the single track road leads to a road which goes through the village about 400 yards away. Footage can be viewed at: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=35 08 Filer's Files: Worldwide Reports of UFO Sightings Major George A. Filer USAF (Ret) & David E. Twichell are happy to announce the release of our new book. If you like Filer's Files newsletter and his monthly report in the MUFON Journal, you'll love the book! It is a collection of some of the most thought provoking UFO sighting and abduction reports from around the world by average citizens, trained observers, astronauts and U.S. presidents. This is a review of many of the best cases in the last several years. The book is $13.95 plus $3.05 tax & shipping Send check to address below or Paypal Donate to Filer's Files to receive CD Your donations do make a difference in my ability to bring you the latest news! So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. George A. Filer has been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Annual Membership is only $25 for 52 weekly intelligence reports. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055. You can also go to: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, Master Charge,or American Express. MUFON UFO JOURNAL - For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. God Bless Our Troops.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface From: Joe McGonagle <Joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 00:17:00 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 06:45:05 -0500 Subject: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface Radar Reveals Ice Deep Below Martian Surface 15:00 30 November 2005 NewScientist.com news service Maggie McKee MARSIS images from two different overhead passes reveal a 250 Km-wide buried impact basin. In the lower image, a linear reflection nearly parallel to the surface is seen embedded in the arcs -- this may be the result of liquid water MARSIS probed under the icy deposits at the north pole, revealing that they are 1.8 km thick in the region studied. The deposits appear as a layer on the right of the upper image (Image: ASI/NASA/ESA/Univ. of Rome/JPL/MOLA Science Team) The first ever underground investigation of another planet has been performed by a radar antenna aboard Europe's Mars Express spacecraft. The instrument probed two kilometres below the Martian surface and found tantalising hints of liquid water pooling in a buried impact crater.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Aliens Are Sending You A Message From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:08:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:08:38 -0500 Subject: Aliens Are Sending You A Message Source: Boise Weekly News - Idaho, USA http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A156069 November 30, 2005 Curious Times By Andreas Ohrt Aliens Are Sending You A Message, And The Message Is This: Time To Get A Real Job If you've ever wanted to instantly become the world's leading crop circle expert, here's your chance. The current champ, Colin Andrews, is broke and trying to auction off his massive 20-plus- year collection of Crop Circle research material at eBay. Andrews, author of the world's first-ever book on the subject, Circular Evidence, has collected over 35,000 photographs, 650 videotapes, and at least 3,000 books and publications. The offer also includes the transfer of all worldwide copyrights on material owned by Andrews. "I am sure this is one of the most profound phenomenon of our time," says the blurb at eBay. "Universal energy interactions may be at work and the interface between two dimensions register spectacular patterns of great meaning and such depth as man can yet imagine." The entire package is up for bids with a starting price of $250,000.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 The Strange Death of James Forrestal From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:16:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:16:55 -0500 Subject: The Strange Death of James Forrestal Source: Phenomena Magazine http://tinyurl.com/a4bfd Thursday, December 1, 2005 The Strange Death of James Forrestal Did the man who created our modern Department of Defense take his own life, or was it taken from him? by Peter Robbins Investigator James Forrestal was a man whose influence, policies and presence dominated the news from 1940 until 1949. But ask the average American who he was, and they will draw a blank. Excluding a handful of exceptions, this former Secretary of the Navy, former Secretary of Defense, and key architect of America's defense establishment has effectively been written out of the history books and our national consciousness, an Orwellian bit of historical revisionism. How and why did this quiet purge occur, and how does it relate to the classified, UFO-related history of postwar America? Did the man who created our modern Department of Defense take his own life, or was it taken from him? The official answer is suicide. Forrestal's death, it is said, came from a sixteenth story fall from a window at the Bethesda Naval Hospital early on the morning of May 22, 1949, where he was being treated for depression. But this account does not hold up under study of the evidence at hand which, while circumstantial, points toward murder. Forrestal's death was precipitated by a nervous breakdown brought on by a combination of factors. He was a complex, driven individual who assumed tremendous responsibilities in his public life while his private life suffered. The central factor in his emotional collapse, however, was related to the unique gravity of the situation he inherited when he was sworn in as America's first Secretary of Defense on September 17, 1947. Forrestal's career path was essentially Princeton, the Navy, and Wall Street. In 1940, he became Under Secretary of the Navy; then in 1944 Secretary of the Navy. He superbly directed the manufacture and flow of all the Navy's war needs, even placing himself in harm's way more than once. After the war, Truman asked the Army and Navy to submit plans for unification of the armed forces. This was still under way when, on June 24, 1947, Kenneth Arnold's UFO sighting became the subject of international press coverage. The modern age of UFOs began. Then, on or about the fourth of July, something, or things, crashed in the plains of New Mexico less than eighty miles from Roswell, home of the world's only atomic bomb wing. Forty-eight hours later the story was international news. The National Security Act was passed by Congress on July 26, and the President named Forrestal Secretary of Defense. Besides uniting the Army, Navy, and (newly independent) Air Force under a single office, the Act also created the National Security Council, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Central Intelligence Agency, and Research and Development Board. Secretary of Defense On September 17, 1947, en route from a state visit to Brazil, President Truman sent a message instructing that Forrestal be sworn in immediately. Why? General Twining's "Air Material Command Opinion Concerning Flying Discs," is dated only six days later and stated "the phenomenon reported is something real and not visionary or fictitious." That same day, September 23, Forrestal arrived at his new offices in the Pentagon. The Eisenhower Briefing Document of November 18, 1952 is one of the controversial "MJ-12" documents, describing a crash of an alien vehicle at Roswell and an extraterrestrial presence on Earth. According to the document, the MJ-12 control group was created on September 24, 1947 as "a Top Secret Research and Development Intelligence operation responsible directly and only to the President of the United States." James Forrestal is listed as number three of the twelve men named to this group. The Briefing Document came with a one page attachment that authorized the new Defense Secretary to proceed "with all due speed and caution upon your undertaking." During 1947 and 1948, there were several compelling UFO cases reported by the U.S. military. On January 7, 1948 Captain Thomas Mantell and two other Kentucky Air National Guard pilots were scrambled after a UFO "of tremendous size" was reported in the skies near Fort Knox. Mantell was killed when his plane exploded in an uncontrolled descent. During the summer of 1948, U.S. and Canadian military personnel faced a classified crisis in the form of a remarkable UFO encounter over Goose Bay, Labrador. On December 10, 1948, a Top Secret "Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the United States" was completed by Air Material Command. While the analysis stopped short of declaring the unknowns to be of unearthly origin, it did state that "the origin of the devices is not ascertainable." Clearly, the U.S. military was talking about UFOs in a serious manner, at least at the classified level. Meanwhile, throughout 1948, victory seemed all but assured for the Republican Presidential candidate, Thomas E. Dewey. By mid- October, Forrestal confided to a friend that he was deeply concerned that "since Dewey might be elected President, his representatives should be briefed in preparation for the possibility." His proposal drew the resentment of Administration officials who equated it with disloyalty to the President. By late November, James Forrestal's star was in decline at the White House. Forrestal tendered his resignation on March 3 and met with Truman on the 10th. At that time the Secretary requested that White House personnel take possession of his multi-thousand page diary, given the amount of classified material it contained. The Breakdown On March 28, the day of his retirement, Forrestal joined Defense Department employees assembled to see his replacement sworn in. President Truman presented the retiring Secretary with the Distinguished Service Metal, the highest civilian decoration authorized by Congress. Unable to respond to the President's words of praise, he was led speechless from the room. Following the ceremonies, Air Force Secretary Stuart Symington, who had regularly challenged Forrestal's authority, spoke with him privately. It is unknown what Symington said, but the effect on Forrestal was deeply upsetting. He was found at his desk several hours later, staring at the wall and repeating the phrase, "you are a loyal fellow." He was driven back to his Georgetown home where his friend Ferdinand Eberstadt soon arrived. Eberstadt was distressed by his old friend's manner. Forrestal told him he was a total failure and was considering suicide. He was also convinced that certain persons in the White House had formed a conspiracy to "get him," and had finally succeeded. On April 2, Forrestal and Eberstadt flew to Florida, where their friend Robert Lovett had an estate. Over the next three days Forrestal is said to have attempted to take his life several times. The Navy sent Captain George M. Raines, Chief of Neuro Psychiatry at the Bethesda Naval Hospital in Maryland, to see him. But an examination had to wait. Forrestal's family had asked Dr. William C. Menninger to be psychiatrist of record, and as such Raines was duty-bound to wait until Menninger arrived the next day. Bethesda The following afternoon the doctors examined the patient. They concluded the best course of action was confinement at Bethesda. Menninger, then flew back to his clinic and, while regularly briefed, never saw his patient again. Raines accompanied Forrestal from Florida to Maryland. On the drive from the airfield to the hospital Forrestal had to be restrained from throwing himself out of the moving car. Once admitted and secured in a room on the sixteenth floor, a twenty- four hour Marine guard was put on his door. For much of the first month he was kept heavily sedated. A week passed with no mention of Forrestal's breakdown or hospitalization in the press or on the radio. The New York Times first ran the story on April 8 and noted that doctors were "very much encouraged by the former Defense Secretary's response to care." One of the first people Forrestal called when he was allowed phone privileges was Monsignor Maurice J. Sheehy, a highly regarded prelate at the Catholic University in Washington. Forrestal asked the Monsignor to help him return to the church. Sheehy agreed and planned a visit to Bethesda. Forrestal also phoned the White House, insisting that someone be sent over to check for a listening device in the wall of his room. The White House sent Sidney Souers, the first Secretary of the National Security Council and a former Director of the Central Intelligence Group (the direct precurser of the CIA). Admiral Souers was one of the Harry Truman's closest friends. Secretary of Defense Louis Johnson visited Forrestal on April 27. He reported that his predecessor looked fine and "should be out of the hospital in two to three weeks." Also on April 27, the Air Force distributed copies of "Project Saucer" to the press, its sanitized civilian version of Project Sign. On May 17, the New York Times reported that Forrestal had gained twelve pounds since being confined on April 2. Visitors and hospital personnel agreed that the Secretary's condition was improving. But Monsignor Sheehy could not get to see Forrestal. By mid-May, he had tried six times, each time being told that Forrestal was unable to see him. Frustrated, Sheehy met with Secretary of Navy John Sullivan on May 20. Sullivan contacted Bethesda and was assured that Sheehy would be able to see the patient in time. Not enough time as it turned out: James Forrestal had two days left to live. Henry Forrestal was also concerned about his brother. He telephoned hospital administrators on May 20, telling them that he would be taking custody of his brother on Sunday, May 22, to enable him to complete his recovery privately in the countryside. He never got to see his brother, either. Official accounts of James Forrestal's death vary slightly, but follow this basic scenario: At 1:45 a.m. on May 22, staff psychiatrist, Commander R. R. Deen, was asleep in the room next to Forrestal's. An attendant, hospital apprentice R.W. Harrison, looked in on the Secretary, finding the patient awake and copying a Sophocles poem from a poetry anthology. Harrison asked Forrestal if he would like a sleeping pill. Forrestal said no. Harrison reported to Commander Deen's room (though according to another account he reported to the hospital security station on another floor) and updated the officer on the patient's condition. Harrison allegedly forgot to lock Forrestal's door behind him. When he checked the room again at 1:50, it was empty and a search began. The seventh floor duty nurse then reported hearing a loud sound from her window. This was the sound of Forrestal's body hitting the third floor roof. Hospital authorities surmised that the patient, finding his door unlocked, walked across the hall to the efficiency kitchen, pushed open the unsecured screen window, knotted his bathrobe sash tightly around his neck, tied the free end to the radiator below the window, lowered himself out of the window, and was killed when the knot at the radiator end of the sash slipped its mooring. Newspapers worldwide headlined the tragedy on May 23. Two days later Josephine Forrestal returned to Washington from Paris where she had been for the duration of her husband's illness. Her first public act was to absolve everyone of blame in her husband's death, without benefit of even a cursory investigation. That afternoon, with six thousand in attendance, James Forrestal was buried at Arlington Cemetery with full military honors, including a nineteen Howitzer salute. He was fifty seven years old. A special naval investigating board inquired into Forrestal's death on May 23, and concluded a week later. Despite promises by Navy and National Military Establishment press sections to release the report, none was forthcoming. On July 19, the New York Times reported that "considerable mystery surrounds a delay in releasing the report." On September 23, the New York Times first reported the existence of Forrestal's diary, and that it was being held at the White House. It was described as filling an entire filing cabinet, "accompanied by many documents that still are stamped top secret." Interestingly, two years later, a massively edited version of the diaries was published by the Viking Press, which stated that its 581 pages were drawn from the over 2,800 pages alleged to be the full extent of Forrestal's writings. This does not square with the facts reported in the New York Times article. After all, it takes a lot more than 2,800 pages to fill a standard four or five drawer filing cabinet -- 15,000 to 20,000 pages would be a more realistic estimate. On October 11, 1949, the Navy finally released the investigating board's report. The report said that Forrestal died of injuries sustained in the fall, that his behavior prior to death "was indicative of a mental depression," and "that the treatment and precautions in the conduct of the case were in agreement with accepted psychiatric practice and commensurate with the evident status of the patient at all times." The report also absolved "all" of any blame in Forrestal's death: "the death was not caused in any manner by the intent, fault, negligence or inefficiency of any person or persons in the naval service or connected therewith." Such language suggests the Navy was more concerned with protecting itself than pursuing the matter actually under investigation. The Death: Murder or Suicide? New York Times features reporter Walter H. Waggoner was the lead journalist assigned to the story immediately following the tragedy. Within hours of Forrestal's plunge, Waggoner established the following: 1. "The sash of his dressing-gown was still knotted and wrapped tightly around his neck when he was found, but hospital officials would not speculate as to its purpose." 2. "Mr. Forrestal had copied most of the Sophocles poem from the book, but he had apparently been interrupted in his efforts. His copying stopped after he had written night of the word nightingale." 3. "=85reports from his doctors and hospital authorities had indicated steady progress toward his recovery." 4. "It had been accepted that continued treatment would have brought Mr. Forrestal to complete recovery in a matter of months." 5. "On the window sill from which Mr. Forrestal jumped were marks suggesting he might have changed his mind and tried to climb back in the window." Why was hospital apprentice R.W. Harrison, who had never had any previous contact with Forrestal, assigned to him on this particular night? One account has it that the regularly assigned attendant did not appear for his shift due to drunkenness, something which had never happened before. Then there is the matter of Monsignor Sheehy. Forrestal had expressed a desire to return to the Church, and by implication the sanctity of the confessional. From the point of view of anyone who considered Forrestal a security risk or potential security risk, Father Sheehy would have been the last person the Secretary should have been allowed to speak with. And in six attempts to see him, the Monsignor never got beyond the reception area. Henry Forrestal, who never did get his brother out of the hospital, became convinced that his brother had been murdered. He wasn't alone in this belief. Arnold A. Rogow's book, James Forrestal: A Study of Personality, Politics and Policy is a scholarly work for which the author interviewed many who were closest to Forrestal, including Dean Acheson, Clark Clfford, Louis Johnson, Robert Lovett, Arthur Krock, Henry Forrestal, Dr. William Menninger, Dr. George Raines, and Harry Truman. Rogow was anything but a conspiracist, but did write, "among those close to him, there are even a few that are certain he was murdered, or if not murdered, that his death was very much desired by individuals and groups who in 1949 held great power in the United States." Aftermath Fifty-four years ago a dedicated public servant broke under the strain of combined factors, not the least of which was his first-hand knowledge that the most powerful nation on Earth was powerless in the face of an unknown threat. He died seven weeks after suffering a nervous breakdown, was buried, eulogized, and then essentially forgotten. I think many of us imagine that for the sufferer, an emotional breakdown is marked by internal confusion and clouded thinking. In fact, the central experience of such a dysfunction may be a terrible sense of clarity, real or imagined, about the causal circumstances of one's undoing. I am convinced that once James Forrestal broke under the strain, he saw the writing on the wall and knew that if he did not =91do the right thing' -- that is, kill himself -- that others would certainly do it for him. But once his darkest days began to fall away, and the prescribed therapy actually began to produce results, the patient on the sixteenth floor grew stronger. He began to recover his sense of self, and his will to live. This turn of events seems to have sealed his fate. To the select group who held power in the U.S. in the mid- twentieth century, James Forrestal's mental collapse had to be treated as a priority national security matter: the man knew everything and might say anything. The decision to force him out of that window was in no way personal. The murder of James Forrestal was simply the only way to guarantee the resolution of what this group had come to perceive as a potential security risk of the first magnitude. But history has shown James Forrestal to have been a true patriot in word and deed, and when he was interred at Arlington National Cemetery, more than his body was laid to rest. UFO secrecy-related matters aside, his work in the Roosevelt Administration to help counter the effects of the Great Depression, his remarkable accomplishments as Secretary of the Navy and Secretary of Defense, not to mention the story of an extraordinary American life, are now all but unknown to most of us, and that is something that needs to be changed. Copyright 2004 Peter Robbins
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Re: Back To Roswell - Miller From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:57:50 +0000 (GMT) Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:19:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Back To Roswell - Miller >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:26:28 -0800 >Subject: Back To Roswell [was:'Alien' Faces Are None Other >Than Mother] >>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:16:53 +0000 (GMT) >>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother >>>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:40:41 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother >>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 06:26:15 EST >>>>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother >><snip> >>You may be right, and Nick has consistently said that he >>can't rule out a disinfo element, but to put his own point >>back to you, why? Why stir up attention and debate on a case >>that from a research perspective had virtually died, that >>wasn't being actively discussed, and which irritates the >>crap out of most serious Ufologists? >First of all, the case is far from dead and I certainly >dispute that it "irritates the crap out of most serious >Ufologists." New information continues to be uncovered. I think you might know where I was coming from when I said this. I have lost count of the number of times I have read of people making negative comments about the case. Generally the feeling is that because of the media beanfest over the years, the case is perceived as detracting from Ufology being taken seriously, and indeed from Ufology moving on. I'm _not_ alleging everyone feels that way, but certainly many do. As for myself, it's certainly a case I respect and one that I feel modern Ufology owes pretty much everything to. But I think Nick got it right or has got very close to it with Bodysnatchers, and while one cannot rules out further surprises, I think we're on the right lines. >Gen. Ramey's memo, despite some rather clumsy attempts to >discredit it, certainly points to something other than a Mogul >balloon crash. The strong consensus reading still remains the >memo speaking of "the victims of the wreck" and dealing with >an object referred to as "the 'disc'". I think the work you did here was quite outstanding and represented the first real break through in the case for years. I sure I'm not the first and I hope I won't be the last to congratulate you for it. But it has to be said that your work could just as easily be applied to Nick's theory as to yours. >A hoax regarding Charles Moore's Mogul Flight #4 has been >exposed by Brad Sparks and myself. Moore, really the _only_ >witness to Flight #4, has also been caught flagrantly lying >about other matters, altering data, changing stories, making >unprovable assumptions, and generally demonstrating that he is >an unreliable and biased witness. >Another cornerstone of the Air Force's Mogul story has also >been discredited, the Duffy/Trakowski story. This was >supposedly Roswell debris being flown to Wright Field and >instantly identified as being from Mogul by Col. Duffy, the >first Mogul Project Officer. Turns out Duffy never made an >such identification in two letters concerning this he wrote >shortly before his death. More damning, a document turned up >indicating that Duffy wasn't even at Wright Field at the time >but near Mogul headquarters in N.J. Reporters were being >referred to him on the day the Roswell incident story broke >regarding the supposed connection between the flying saucers > and balloon radar targets (Duffy helped develop the latter). >Some very notable people such as Gen. Exon and, more recently, >Edgar Mitchell have said that Roswell was an extraterrestrial >event. Many witnesses testified to the existence of highly >anomalous debris, far beyond anything available in 1947. >Instead it resembles new materials now emerging from >nanotechnology labs. That such materials could be made wasn't >even known 10 years ago. >The public and press at large always thought the Air Force's >"wooden crash dummies from the future" report was >preposterous. One could similarly ask what the point of that > was. Firstly, I'm not sure it's a good idea to use Edgar Mitchell's name here as he has had some credibility problems as of late. Secondly, and with respect, the testimony relating to the materials isn't convincing. Marcel, for example, may have been familiar with every type of balloon the military were using but at a time like that, where there were many frequent innovations, there is no reason to presume that he should know about everything that was happening. It's simply not conclusive and is unlikely to ever be properly resolved because of the passage of time. Thirdly, as someone who has to read current popular media stories on Ufology daily (gee, what a grind), your mentioning of Mogul here is the first time I have come across that word for many months. I think most sceptics have now quietly forgotten about it, or would like to. Yes, it is true, as you mention below, that it was brought up again in the ABC Special but I think most people who saw it would agree that a fine, long standing, throughly profesional reporter and journalist let himself badly down with his treatment of that case and was obviously working to a predetermined agenda that wasn't going to be shaken by any evidence. One of the curses of Ufology. I do think the Mogul explanation was a deliberate attempt to mislead the public. Nick was of the opinion that by then, the military might just have completely lost the plot with Roswell because of the pasage of time and might not have had a real grasp, in the mid 90s, of what really went on and that the Mogul explanation might have been a genuinely honest attempt to offer an explanation. I didn't concur because of McAndrew. Having seen the public reaction to Mogul, they realised the game was up (regardless of the fact that many sceptics managed to draw it out for years afterwards), and decided to come partially clean. I think they were saying with McAndrew, "Okay, here it is but you've got a lot more work to do. Go and do it." I don't think they will have been impressed by the fact that it took 10 years for someone to go and do it. >Even though mainstream media presentations keep regurgitating >the Mogul party line, such as last February's ABC UFO special, >the Mogul balloon cover story has been steadily deflating. >Probably most of the U.S. public doesn't buy it. Thus time to >possibly introduce a new red herring. Why? Where's the groundswell and clamour of public opinion? It matters to serious researchers like yourself David and a few others, but you hardly hear people muttering these days about those so and so's still holding back on the truth. >Even Redfern's anonymous "Colonel" refers to the unfolding >inadequacies of the Mogul theory: "...when you have the alien >believers saying that the Mogul flight dates, or the size of >the debris field area, or the wind directions for Mogul >flights don't tie up with the date or the location of the >crash site [where] Brazel found the material--and therefore >this means the material wasn't Mogul and must therfore have > been extraterrestrial... Arguing about whether or not wind >and weather records or the size of a Mogul balloon indicate or >don't indicate that [a Mogul balloon] might have been taken >in the direction of the ranch is irelevant when it wasn't a >Mogul balloon..." (pp. 133-134) >It strikes me that somebody has been paying attention to the >inconsistencies being dug up about Mogul from researchers who >haven't gone to sleep. "The Colonel's" reference to the >debates about weather data, wind direction and crash location >is directly about Sparks and myself proving Moore a hoaxer >with his Flight #4 trajectory calculation. Flight #4, if it >ever existed, would have crashed somewhere else far removed >from the Brazel debris field. Yes, someone has been paying attention to the flow of the debate - the Colonel stated that he still took an interest after retirement and even attended conferences. >Thus time to move on to a backup theory to try to cover as >many bases as possible. It doesn't matter if much of it is so >full of holes that you could fly an Eben invasion fleet >through it. It just has to sound superficially plausible. It > picks up a few adherents who haven't thought it through >adequately and then the infighting and time wasting begins >anew. >>What's the point? >The usual reasons for any disinformation. To waste people's >time. To point them in the wrong direction. To confuse them. >To discredit them as evidence of hoaxing piles up..To get >them continually squabbling with one another. To paint the >field as being made up of conspiracy loonies and gullible >believers. To inform them of some truth but with plausible >deniability built in. Take your pick. It can be any >combination of the above. I'm all for recognising disinfo campaigns and indeed, trying to spot them. I think one or two folk might even think I'm a bit paranoid about them. But, if this is a disinfo campaign then they are to be congratulated because most of the previous obvious ones have been utter disasters. At this moment David, we are a complete irrelevancy as a collective group. We are ineffective and no one pays us much attention. We're not worth bothering with any more. These useful idiots are no longer useful. But let's play. Let's say that Bodysnatchers is a part of some campaign. There were close to 400 postings on this List in relation to Nick's book, quite a committment. The debate was conducted, in the main, in a civilised manner. Sure there was the odd bit of sniping etc but by and large, people just got on with it. So while we were at it, what sneaked in through the back door while we were all distracted? How different is the state of Ufology today to what it was before Nick's book? What has changed? >To this one might add that Redfern's psyops witnesses are very >obviously trying to make the case that there never have been >UFO crashes and there is nothing whatsoever to UFOs. UFOs are >just cover stories for secret government projects. I agree partially with you. Yes, they did indeed make the case that there were no crashes but I think it's a stretch to say that they claimed there was nothing to UFOs. >The "what's the point?" argument I didn't find particularly >convincing as a defense when Redfern first used it, and I >still don't find it convincing. A review of the history of >Ufology for the last 50 years shows that various UFO >researchers have regularly been the targets of >disinformation. It was one of the Robertson Panel's >recommendations from 1953 for controlling public opinion on >the UFO problem. Why should it necessarily be any different >for Redfern? See above. >>Most people who have intelligently thought Roswell through >>had long ago come to the conclusion that they were never >>going to find out the truth and had put it to bed in their >>minds. >So some people are no longer interested because they don't >think we'll ever get at the truth. In contrast, some people >(who have also intelligently thought Roswell through) are >still interested, think the truth may still be had and are >trying to chip away at it. >Again, I fail to see your point. Those who went to sleep will >probably stay asleep and those still interested will continue >to investigate. >>The dangers of bringing it up again on the other hand are >>obvious. Because of renewed interest, someone, somewhere, >>might just stumble on something. >Those whose interest is rearroused aren't likely to "stumble >on something" if they are pointed in the wrong direction. >Those who were still investigating and thought the whole >story bogus from the beginning, such as me, are no more >likely to stumble over something new looking in the >directions we were previously. Therefore, I don't buy this >extra "danger" argument. I agree with the first part of what you say in the above paragraph, obviously. I don't agree with the second part. If you are an active investigator, then there is always a chance that something will come your way and the probabilities are greatly increased if there is a higher level of publicity, like in drawing public attention to a case that has been out of the public eye for a while. I have just done an excellent interview with Nick Pope for the next issue of UFO Review and amongst a broad range of subjects discussed, we talked about the Rendlesham case as it's its 25th anniversary at the end of this month. Nick expressed the opinion that it was his hope that the publicity generated by the anniversary would result in, amongst other things, the discovery of further official documentation on the case. The publicity generates inquiries, sometimes from MPs, which leads to further file digging in the MOD and the possible discovery of documents that had been misfiled originally. Nick is quite hopeful and optimistic about this based on his own experience. It's just an example of what renewed publicity and focus can do. Why take the risk? >>Nick has actually just made an interesting discovery. He has >>come across this: >>http://www.archives.gov/iwg/meetings/minutes/minutes- >>062105.html >>It is a record of an inter agency discussion earlier this >>year in which the subject of releasing documentation >>relating to the activities of Unit 731 was discussed. The >>chilling point to this is that this meeting took place on >>the exact same day of publication of "Bodysnatchers". >I don't understand what is so "chilling" about this. (Maybe >it's that damp English weather.) It sounds like a simple >coincidence to me. Are you honestly asserting that Redfern's >publisher and the interagency committee somehow coordinated >the book's release date? What possible end would that serve? Firstly, don't mock our weather please! We love being damp and mild. And no, I'm certainly not asserting there was collusion between Nick's publishers and the Interagency Committee. What I am saying is that if it is a coincidence, and of course they do happen, it is nevertheless, an interesting one. >Further, when you check the above link, all you find is the >following "chilling" "revelations" concerning Unit 731: >Army Records >Ms. Bromwell stated that a CD containing images of records >related to Unit 731 that were deposited in the Library of >Congress has been transferred to the IWG [Interagency Working >Group]. She stated that no additional records from Ft. Detrick >and the Dugway Proving Grounds have been located by the Army >thus far. The issue of additional Army records related to >biological experimentation noted in the book Factories of >Death by historian Sheldon Harris remains open. Prof. >Weinberg noted that the East Asia IWG volume will be a good >forum for dealing with Dr. Harris' assertion that these >documents were still held by the U.S. Army in the 1980s and >1990s. >I fail to see how this vague reference to documents about Unit >731 in any way corroborates the thesis of "B. S. in the >Desert." >>You have a number of choices with this information. You can >>take a pragmatic attitude and just accept that coincidences >>happen. >Yep, that's my choice. >>You can seize on it, as you might, and say it further >>confirms that "Bodysnatchers" is part of some disinfo >>campaign, I think it's part of a disinfo campaign, but I >>don't see how the ongoing release of documents on Unit 731 >>somehow confirms this either. >>but I would be interested in your line of thought and >>reasoning on this if that is the way you go. Because if this >>is some smooth operation, then this latest twist is a bit >>cack handed and rather obvious. Or, it's classic disinfo in > >the sense that the truth or the partial truth is released >>but mixed with a contentious point or two, in this case the > >coincidence of the dates, all designed to get us squabbling, > >as we are now. >To me, attaching any signficance to this date seems to be >grasping at straws. That's fine. But both Nick and I found it a bit unnerving though. I suppose he and I are watchful of any signs that something somewhere in all this is a bit amiss. >>Or, we can all stop being paranoid (to a degree at least - we >>don't want to give it up for good because it's rather >>enjoyable) and maybe accept that the U.S. government has >>finally decided in it's own way and without any fanfare to >>let us know what really happened, warts 'n all. After all, >>assuming the documents to be released are genuine, they are > >likely to further confirm, circumstantially at least, the >>authenticity of Nick's theories. >Here's another example of conclusion jumping. Since we have no >idea what these Unit 731 documents are from the brief >description given, how can anyone possibly conclude that they >will "likely" further confirm, even circumstantially, >Redfern's theories? "Likely" isn't "definitely". But yes, until we see these documents, we don't know what they contain. >Again I see this strange logic at work that if documents on >Unit 731 exist that this somehow points to Redfern being >correct. How can you not see there is a huge logical >disconnect between one and the other? I accept that just because documents on Unit 731 exist doesn't neccessarily mean that everything that Nick says is right. I do though find the date coincidence odd. But neither do I see a huge logical disconnect in my reasoning, as you suggest. I don't think the gap is that big. >>>Here's another possible one making the rounds right now: >>>"Project Serpo The Zeta Reticuli Exchange Program" >>>http://www.serpo.org/information.html >>To me, my dear friend Rick Doty might just as well have put >>his signature at the end of this piece. It's classic him and >>Robert Collins. The real interesting point is why it's >>resurfaced now? >>I have commented on this at my blog: >>http://rickdotyismygod.blogspot.com/ >I don't believe the Project Serpo story (too many >inconsistencies and logical nonstarters, for one thing), but >it is an imaginative and better-than-average UFO yarn. No it's not. Surely you must have read this sort of thing many times before. >I don't know who's behind it. Maybe it's Doty; maybe it's >the "The Colonel" and his cohorts trying to jerk us around >yet another way; maybe it's a group of private hoaxers. (At >any moment, I expect a group of CSICOPers to jump out, >shout "April Fool!", then gloat about their putting one over > on the gullible UFO believers.) >If it's Doty or those affiliated with him, you could equally >well ask the same question you started with: "What's the >point?" With him, that question doesn't apply. He's in a little world entirely of his own, where I believe his actions are often motivated by personal issues. >Part of this story is also a spinoff of the Roswell >crash, including the surviving Eben with whom we supposedly >established communications. If Roswell is truly dead, as you >claim, why stir it up again with yet another story? Isn't >there the same "danger" that renewed interest might cause >someone to "stumble" over some important new piece of >information? As far as he is concerned, we haven't got the brains we were born with. We can't do anything. >I think if there is any "point" to this from a >counterintelligence perspective, it is mainly to get everybody >confused, running around in circles, and wasting their time in >infighting. Maybe there is even some element of truth in there >that also gets planted in the back of our minds. That could be >part of another plan for gradual release of information to the >public domain. I somehow very much doubt it. Remember, this is the man who told you that they like strawberry ice cream. To even contemplate taking anything he says seriously is ridiculous. >David (Doty is not my God) Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article - Burns From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:59:46 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:27:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article - Burns >From: Roy Hale <roy.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:11:37 -0000 >Subject: Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article >>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:00:29 -0000 >>Subject: Rendlesham Newspaper Article >Can you tell me if there is a complete database of UFO Sightings >leading up to and after the UFO event at Rendlesham December >1980? Does BUFORA hold such a database, seeming they are the >UK's biggest source of UFO public reporting? If so, how does one >get access to it? Roy, The archive project is moving ahead eventually the entire data base will be available. However the 80,s for being scanned are someway off.I can tell you that scanning is well into the 60;s from 1926. I would expect an announcement from the BUFORA council when the group has something to say concerning the start of the launch, I scanned a document the other day that was 80 pages of double sided data.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Re: Back To Roswell - Miller From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 14:07:22 +0000 (GMT) Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:30:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Back To Roswell - Miller >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:27:10 -0800 >Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother >>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:16:53 +0000 (GMT) >>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother >>>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:40:41 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother Hi Ed, <snip> >Stuart, David, List, >It's important to remember that Nick's thesis also includes an >attempted refutation of the Alien Autopsy/Debris footage. >Nick's informants claim that the AA is real footage but of a >deformed and retarded six fingered mutant who was used for a >White Sands high altitude radiation test that went awry, >during May, 1947. >And Stuart, you imply in your latest interview with Nick that >his revelations have somehow ruined my life. >http://tinyurl.com/969fe Well, ruining your life might be overstating it a bit but you were certainly extremely upset, sufficient to cancel a speaking engagement. Have a look back at your email responses from that time and try and look at them objectively. >I doubt that Nick's collection of motley facts is believed or >endorsed by anyone. Is there someone on the list who will >defend Nick? I beg to differ Ed and I would certainly defend him and support him as well. >There is not a word that Nick has said or written that >threatens the reality of the Alien Autopsy footage - or >Roswell - or the Cameraman's crash site. There is still not >one shred of evidence that the AA is hoaxed or fraudulent nor >is there any evidence that the Cameraman's testimony is a >fiction. I hope some of you reading this might decide to take >another look. In terms of offering conclusive evidence, you are right in that nothing Nick has offered can be backed up by documentation. But no one, least of all Nick, is insisting you accept what he says. You can reject it, as you have.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 10:30:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:32:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Ledger >From: Enrique Avalle <enrique.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul>, >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:51:27 -0200 >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >I cannot be 100% sure, but my call is that the video is a fake. >A good one, with assistance of heavy graphical processing, where >the ufo is 3D, the camera movements have been tracked and >inputed in the 3D scene, the building on the right appropriately >masked in order to make the ufo dissapear behind, etc. <snip> Very good, Enrique. There's also this curious lack of the originating photographer who has either gotten very shy or
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 11:28:11 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:38:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:29:04 EST >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:41:28 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:28:28 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:49:56 -1000 >>>>Subject: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>>A Reply to Dr Kevin Randle's Critique of Exopolitics >>>Do you really think a Senate Committee in Ottawa will blindly >>>accept all claims because you and Alfred and Hellyer want them >>>to? I understand he was treated with disdain by the Fox >>>reporter. >>The only thing I will comment on here re this thread, Stan, is >>your last remark re the Fox reporter's disdain. The Fox network >>should carry little weight on anything. Fox is so heavily biased >>toward Bush and is - if memory serves - owned by Bush's brother- >>in-law or some such relative. It's credibility is highly questionable. >If you'll forgive me, but I don't believe that our political opinions, such as this should appear in this forum... especially when it is well known that the Fox networks are part of Rupert Murdoch's empire and has no direct connect to George Bush. Hi Kevin, Nothing to forgive. But it wasn't a political opinion. I was questioning the Fox Network reporter's right to disdain anything. Murdoch might own Fox but at the time of Bush's election John Ellis, George Bush and Jeb Bush's first cousin, was the head of Fox Network News and on election night it was Ellis who called the election in favor of Bush. Not to be scooped, the other networks kneejerked and followed suit. Murdoch hired Ellis. You don't have to take my word for it, simply Google it up. I watched a CBC documentary on the Fox network's inability to criticize Bush during his campaign or after. This led other networks to rebroadcast or pick up on these stories without questioning them. Fox in effect became a news leader due to the other Networks believing that Fox had an inside track, even the heavyweights like NBC and CBS. I don't think presenting a clarification on facts is being political. That being said, I have my own issues with Paul Hellyer's UFO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> <exopolitics@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:09:04 -1000 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:48:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:01 EST >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 05:13:29 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:28:28 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:49:56 -1000 >>>>Subject: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >>Dean did not claim he had a "need to know", only that the >>Assessment had Ultra security compartmentalization in addition >>to the Cosmic clearance that all who worked in SHOC had. >>According to Dean, only officers had the Ultra clearance and >>Dean did not. Yet Dean was in charge of the Duty Roster for the >>officers and was highly regarded by them, in a collegial >>environment. Clearly, Dean was in a position to give favors in >>terms of plum times to officers, and this was implicitly >>understood by them. While I understand Kevin Randle's point that >>the Colonel's giving the Ultra classified Assessment is a >>security violation, I think it can be inferred he was doing a >>favor to a respected NCO who worked in the highly secure SHOC >>war room. It's natural to assume that in the collegial >>environment of SHOC, such favors happened and would be returned. >>I think your and Kevin's hard-line position that this would not >>occur overlooks what appears to have been a very collegial >>environment and the fraternization that occurs between senior >>NCOs and officers. While Dean has not offered hard evidence, his >>prestigious service record and laying his reputation on the line >>in coming forward warrant serious consideration of his >>testimony. Combined with Dean's clear sincerity, consistency, >>detailed knowledge, and physical placement in SHOC, I conclude >>Robert Dean is credible and his testimony worth accepting. >There are so many "facts and "conclusions" that are wrong here >that I don't really know where to begin. You're suggesting some >sort of system in which the officers reward Dean for "plum" >times in which they perform their duties. This is just wrong on >so many levels and smacks of what might be acceptable in the >corporate or academic worlds but that will see officers and NCOs >court martialed in a military one, especially since it >compromised a highly classified document. >You admit that Dean had no "need to know" yet suggest this was >violated as payback for the "plum" times. This suggests the flaw >in your thinking and once again leads to compromise of the >classified material. If true, this, in and of itself would lead >to the investigation and court martial of the individuals >involved. Much of this is supposition on your part. Dean is merely describing the events that occurred where a senior officer gave him a classified document that Dean's security clearance did not entitle him to view. This was certainly a breach of security procedures as you outline but you jump to many conclusions in your view that this could not have happened, and a court martial would have occurred. I can assume that these kinds of security violations are fairly common in the military world where senior officers can take more junior personnel into their confidence despite the latter not having the right clearance. Sure, a security violation that could technically land someone in a court martial but for someone like Dean who had NATO Cosmic clearance and reading the Assessment in the highly secure SHOC room, I think the Colonel knew that Dean could keep confidence which he did. Dean didn't come out publicly until some time around 1991. That's almost 30 years after the event. As to my thinking being flawed, I am merely narrating Dean's version of events and giving an explanation for how and why his story is plausible. I think you are ignoring human nature and the system of informal paybacks that occur all the time in the military, academic and corporate worlds. As far as I can tell, humans still call the shots in such institutions and make judgements about how to observe security procedures. >But the real problem here is that this does not, nor did your >response, address the key points which is that no one seems to >be able to verify the existence of The Assessment and that the >cover page offered by Dean as evidence has been discredited. >(No, I won't go over all of that but suggest that those who are >interested look at www.KevinRandle.blogspot.com for the >information). >This is the key to understanding, and if I might presume on >Stan's behalf, one of the reasons for rejecting Dean's tale. >Yes, Dean is a seeming sincere man who has a detailed knowledge >of the workings of NATO but this does not prove his tale to be >based in reality. We have no evidence, beyond Dean, that "The >Assessment" ever existed, his tale violates many rules and >regulations, and those who would have had access have >universally denied "The Assessment" ever existed. >I simply do not understand how you can suggest that we take this >story seriously. Investigation demands some sort of >corroboration and we have none. Until and unless there is some >confirming evidence, this story doesn't even belong in the gray >basket. It belongs in the waste basket. ><snip> Yes, no one has been able to prove the existence of the Assessment. That should not be surprising since Dean alleges it had Cosmic Ultra classification where its existence was a secret and anyone disclosing its existence can be prosecuted. So the Assessment, if we believe Dean's story, is part of Cosmic Watergate that has successfully kept numerous documents out of the public realm for decades. I think we need to take Dean's story seriously since he had a highly distinguished military service, served in the highly secure military facility he describes, and has no reason to come out with a fabricated story to damage his reputation. That's where you fail to recognize the importance of intent in this case of Dean and other whistleblowers. If you are arguing Dean fabricated his story of the Assessment, you need to show clear intent as to why he did this since for career servicemen such as Dean and Corso they have much to lose in terms of their hard earned reputations. As for putting Dean's story in the waste basket, that's typical of the treatment given to many whistleblowers who bravely come forward only to have unreasonable demands placed on them to prove their stories. <snip> >>As for the Canadian Senate, I think you miss the point. When >>someone with Hellyer's credentials comes forward to support >>Corso's claims, people have great difficulty in ignoring what >>Hellyer says. The fact that Hellyer confirmed Corso's claims >>through his own network of military and political contacts, is >>something that makes others think anew about Corso's testimony >>and its implications. I believe that what we are witnessing is >>the start of a political process whereby Canada may be the >>world's first legislative body that discusses the policy >>implications of the weaponization of Space in relation to the >>extraterrestrial hypothesis. That is a positive development and >>I hope you lend your support to it based on your Cosmic >>Watergate thesis, rather than doggedly stick to your position >>that Corso's testimony is invalid. You are wrong about Corso and >>it's time you reconsider your position. >Unless there have been new developments, my understanding was >that Hellyer said that he had spoken with an unidentified Air >Force general who said that Corso's story was accurate. This is >not the same as Hellyer confirming Corso's claims through a >network of military and political contacts. I had a private conversation with Paul Hellyer in early November and asked if he could give more details about the USAF General and anyone else he spoke to in order to confirm Corso's testimony. He couldn't give me more information about the General in order to maintain confidentiality, but mentioned other public officials, some senior, that confirmed Corso's story. He wouldn't give me more information about them, but essentially Hellyer was saying that he confirmed Corso's story by speaking with a number of officials including the retired General. So Hellyer did confirm Corso's claims through a network of military and political contacts. >It can also mean that this unidentified general knew that the >story of the crashed saucer was true, that Corso had written >about the crashed saucer, so the overall broad strokes were true >but not necessarily the finer details such as Corso's >implausible tale of seeing the body of an alien in a wooden >shipping box at Ft. Riley, Kansas. >I'm very much afraid that we are not wrong about Corso. He >provided nothing to confirm his tale and showed his true colors >with his actions with the Foreword of his book, the >embellishment of his credentials and the injection of himself >into several UFO stories. >And contrary to your claims, these are not minor >inconsistencies, but real problems that should raise some red >flags. Adequate explanation has not been offered. The only thing red in the argument you are making are the red herrings that you use in your attempt to discredit Corso. These alleged embellishments and insertions of himself into UFO stories are distractions from Corso's central claims. He was the head of the Foreign Technology Desk at Army Research and Development and participated in a covert program authorized by Lt General Arther Trudea to seed civilian industries with extraterrestrial technologies. Those are the central claims made by Corso and are supported by Corso's military records documenting his position where he could have played such a role. Since you support the existence of a Cosmic Watergate, it's only logical to assume that the military would covertly implement such a program in order to upgrade the technological base of the civilian sector. I assume you and Stan would agree that would be both feasible and logical given the technological superiority of visiting ETs and the secrecy that was adopted as a national security policy. What better branch of the military than the Foreign Technology Desk at Army R & D to play such a role since they already had an extensive network of technology development programs with various corporations and could simply say that the ET technology was 'foreign technology'? It's only logical to assume that such a covert program existed, and that someone like Lt General Arther Trudea as head of Army R & D would have played a key role. Since Corso served for some time as Trudeau's military aide, then it is logical to assume that he was given that covert assignment by Trudeau when he was assigned to the FTD. I hope that reseachers finally focus on Corso's central claims rather than the red herrings you offer to diminish the importance of his testimony.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 UFO Reported Over Shanghai From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:52:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:52:45 -0500 Subject: UFO Reported Over Shanghai Source: The Shanghai Daily - China http://tinyurl.com/a3ltm 2005-12-01 UFO Reported Over Shanghai Li Xinran Several people reported seeing a UFO in Shanghai between 4:30pm and 9pm yesterday. A man named Hu told the Xinmin Evening News he saw the UFO in the sky near the Outer Ring Road in Xinzhuan area at 4:30pm. It was visible for about 5 minutes, Hu said. A man named Luo said he saw a bright oval object flying west towards Jiuting Town at 5pm when he was near Qibao Town. He tried to take a picture of it with his digital camera, but failed. A man named Yang said he saw the UFO near the Laoximen in Jianguo Road E. at 4:44pm. He said it was a thumb-like orange oblong object hanging in the southeast sky and moving slowly east. A Mr Ni, aged 65, said he saw a bright red dish-like object in the western sky for about 5 minutes from his 13th-floor room in the No.8 People's Hospital in Xuhui District at 4:55pm. A caller named Zhao told the newspaper he saw the UFO in the southwest sky at 5pm in Putuo District near Wuning Road and Caoyang Road. It was a strange shape and flew slowly west, Zhao said. A Mr Liu saw the UFO from the elevated road of Zhongshan Road N. and Hutai Road at 9pm. It was a cubic flying object with lights glittering around it, Liu said. It looked like a twinkling gold star in the sky and changed into a thumb-sized cube when it moved quickly. "I saw it stayed in the northeast sky for a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:14:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:41:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Ledger >From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:08:59 -0000 >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:53:04 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >I do not know how many downloads it will allow so I suppose its >first come first served. >You've got a file called "ufo video - bulgaria - >incredible!.mpg" (9802 KB) from max.burns.nul >waiting for download. <snip> Hi Max,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 2 Lehmberg's Good News Plus From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:59:47 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:14:37 -0500 Subject: Lehmberg's Good News Plus Good News Plus! by Alfred Lehmberg www.alienview.net My dear Mother made the disclosure to the first internet buddy calling me on the telephone. She did it out of concern and fear for what she knew was a sympathetic ear, but it was a disclosure none the less, and I'd have soon we kept it to ourselves. Why? Think about it... I don't want a reader to have any excuses, and it's largely my business anyway. It not like I'm an airline pilot or a neurosurgeon. She didn't know. Otherwise distracted, I didn't think to tell her not to. So, I won't remotely feel like she blabbed. Her heart was in the right place, yea and verily. It remains that the 'news' is out, though, so I'm going to turn it into a disclosure of my own... and a good thing. For reasons I'll go into, it's good news for you, reader, even as you might perceive that it's bad news for me. It's good news for me, though, too. Seriously! I mean that. Part of the new mammalian internet consciousness combating the reptilian consciousness which precedes it? I'm compelled to make a full report, then, to you. It is good news, and I'm laughing in the pleasure of that news, sincerely, even as I type these words. There are some grateful tears mixed in with the laughter. I'm extremely grateful that I still have the capacity for both... Last Tuesday, about eight o'clock in the morning and during some news report about the aggregate egregiousness that our current United States government had committed (but only at the tip of the iceberg as the 'report' was received from the corrupt and hijacked mainstream), I had a stroke... Yeah... sincerely committed to the idea that I just may live forever? I had a stroke. Not a bad one, and not one requiring me to bang this essay out with my forehead by any means... even as it's slowed me down... but a stroke none the less. I'm left a little unsure on my feet, I'm making a lot more mistakes as I type and I can't chord my guitar... but hey... it could have been a lot worse. A lot worse. Oh, I had it coming. Thirty pounds overweight, no real regular exercise in the preceding decade, and wrapped a little too tight than is good for anybody? I'd been skating a little too close to the edge of the abyss. The bell tolled for... me. I got a wake-up call, to cut to the chase. Moreover, the new mammalian consciousness I'd alluded to earlier can transfer and make it a wake-up call for you, too, if you choose. A 'freebie' call! But outed? I owe it to you, reader, to start the, alluded to, transfer... apply the appropriately efficacious spin... tell the true story. See, I'm not to be pitied, or eased up on, or considered infirm... I'm not to be immediately considered dotty, disrupted, disordered, or disturbed. I'm still me, if a little slower version at present, and I flat won't tolerate reflexive sympathy. Won't own it. Won't stand for it. Does the honored reader remember Rich Reynolds of the very specious "RRR Group" out of Fort Wayne, Indiana... from an internet yesteryear of a few weeks past? He had a light stroke several months ago and I backed way off his case as a result, treated him with a toleration he did not deserve... extended to him idiosyncratic credit he did not earn. And, as an, I would suppose, predictable result of a pointed discussion on ethics, credibility, and fair or balanced reporting? He plunged an unearned blade of bogus manufacture deeply into my inoccent back... right around kidney level... for my trouble. Even _if_ that trouble was sentient, serious, and sincere. See? Mr. Reynolds died on the cross of whatever provoked concern, concerned anxiety, or needless apprehension you need feel for me, dear reader. The reader is better advised to feel about me... exactly as the reader felt about me before my, actually fortuitous, episode. Be silently ambivalent, wish me well, or even ill. Then move on, with my thanks. I'll eat your literary face for anything less, or more. Fortuitous episode? Yes. This is the good news. You see, for the better part of two years I have co-written a series of information papers with longtime friend and fellow military retiree Alan Graham about diet, nutrition, and the aggregate disservice done to all of us by an American Medical health system and its evil ancillaries. Alan is the fellow who 'cured' himself of the 'incurable' ailment called Crohn's Disease, 'hereditary' arthritis, and other diseases of the 20th Century... vastly improved my extremely ill mother's quality of life, and assisted many others (Jim Mortellaro and his wife [stricken with MS] among them) to a quality of life they had thought gone from them forever. True stories all. Encouraging stories. Instructive stories. Stories of hope. Like many of you reading, I thought I was one of those immune to the diseases of the 21st Century. Not so. As a result, I wasn't really practicing what I helped preach. Back at the ranch, I have survived what amounts to my second wake-up call... or, at least, that "wake-up" requiring a 911 call, an ambulance, and a subsequent hospitalization. The first episode was very brief, quickly recovered from, and a result of sleeping in a funny position, I 'thought'. This happened about 5 weeks ago... about the time that Rich Reynolds was twisting his contrived knife in my back... hmm? I was just lying to myself. I knew what it was. I just willingly self-deceived. No more. It's the third-strike for which you have to walk (or be carried) away from the plate, after all, and if I can't hit a home-run with my efforts, I'd at least like to get on base. I still intend to get a 'hit', reader. That said, I'm at a bone dry 205 pounds (should be about 170, soaking wet), blood pressure averaging 170 over 110 or thereabouts (should be about 120 over 85), am unsteady on my feet if of sound mind, and I don't presently have the co-ordination to play my guitar. That is especially crushing. The Medical People presently have me on Plavix (75 mg), a blood thinner - the stuff that nearly killed my Mom - and Norvasc (10 mg) for the high blood pressure - say goodbye to Mr. Woodie. I'll let you know the moment I can stop taking these truly vile medicaments. I'm hoping I can report to you later that I've gotten my guitar playing ability back. I expect to make a full recovery, reader. A complete one. I aspire to be better than before. Additionally, I hope I can give the reader more times at bat as a result of some small attention the reader pays to my evolving saga. What I intend to do is described very well at the indicated location (Google 'Graham Lehmberg' at the Rense site), so I don't have to be tedious about it here in essay. The reader can go have a look as the reader wishes. Or, e-mail me. I'll direct you to the sun-source! It's not required to pay attention or follow along in any way, of course. It's just that the new mammalian internet I've referenced a couple of times now makes it possible for me to effortlessly share this 'good' news. I shall, indeed, share. It's my duty, I suppose, forgetting I'd as soon have kept it to myself. I've a system. I've a plan. I've hope. I've good people around who care about me. Good news like I said. For me and, as I said, for you too... But what does this have to do with UFOs? It's this. When I was laying in the bed at the hospital Tuesday evening after midnight in the deepest dark of the blackest night I have ever known - even requiring help to urinate, reader - I was compelled to wonder if this was not the end of all things for me. The end of love? The end of mobility? The end of the complete satisfaction I had taken for granted with regard to wife, family, friends, and my little pound puppy dog, Sheba? The abrupt end of a 1001 other pleasurable things? Perhaps surprisingly? The loss of UFOs and the earnest consideration of their ancillaries figured closely after my concerns for the just iterated items, that I was being taken out of the game, you know? I got released from the hospital late Wednesday morning. I was responding favorably to treatment and got a lot of mobility back as a result. After checking in with family and friends, still, my thoughts were on the night sky and its accoutrements. Thursday morning came with the usual alarm at 02:30 hours, and I was, apparently, to be given another chance to stare, at least once again, into her matchless depths and deeper reaches. Truly, I lusted for that night sky... another gift I had taken for granted, I discovered. I won't make that mistake again. At about 05:15 hours Central Time, with a temperature around 30 degrees Fahrenheit, I was looking to the west at the best Star-field I'd seen in quite a while. Winter always has the best skies... The object appeared over the South South-West tree line, brighter than Venus, at about 50 degrees elevation, and preceded to travel Northerly at a rate of about 5 degrees in 15 seconds until it disappeared, also at about 50 degrees elevation, in the tree line to the North! The sighting happened between 05:15 and 05:20 hours, or thereabouts. It traveled with such unvarying regularity and brightness that I took it for the Space Station or an especially bright satellite. Checking the NASA java application for satellite prediction; however, at: http://science.nasa.gov/Realtime/JTrack/3D/JTrack3D.html and setting the application for ALL satellites and ALL passes, showed that there were NO satellites between 03:40 hours and 11:28 hours of 'any' type or at 'any' magnitude of brightness for my location (ZIP code 36330). A UFO, friends and neighbors! With any other name? It would smell as sweet. I was well and truly served. Gladdened even. The reader may understand why - brushes with death always makes a person appreciate the 'little' things. I'll keep you posted?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article - Scheldroup From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 22:43:52 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:07:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article - Scheldroup >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 00:18:02 -0000 >Subject: Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article >>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:11:37 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Rendlesham Newspaper Article >>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:00:29 -0000 >>>Subject: Rendlesham Newspaper Article >>>There's a double-page feature on the Rendlesham Forest UFO >>>incident in today's Daily Express - one of the UK's best selling >>>national newspapers. >>>There's growing media interest in this case in the run-up to the >>>25th anniversary. >The Ministry of Defence has records of all sightings reported to >the Department at the time. A combination of research at the >National Archives and FOI requests should turn up the relevant >information. BUFORA aren't the only UFO group that might have >useful data, but if you want to contact them about the case, you >can do so via their recently updated website: >http://www.bufora.org.uk/ >As for what UFO researchers think, I leave it to ufologists to >say. Bogus opinions abound Some even astound Other's appear unsound Our own seem profound Just because someone's thinking resonates with our own doesn't necessarily mean it's correct or "strong". Most people in ancient times thought the world was flat, this "flatness" concept "resonated" with most everyone. Didn't make it any more true because of the resonation. The Supreme God From Mathematical Principles Sir Isacc Newton It is allowed by all that the Supreme God exists necessarily; and by the same necessity he exists always and everywhere. Whence also he is all similar, all eye, all ear, all brain, all arm, all power to perceive, to understand, and to act; but in a manner not at all human, in a manner not at all corporeal, in a manner utterly unknown to us. As a blind man has no idea of colors, so have we no idea of the manner by which the all wise God perceives and understands all things. He is utterly void of all body and bodily figure, and can therefore neither be seen, nor heard nor touched; nor ought he to be worshiped under the representation of any corporeal thing. We have ideas of his attributes, but what the real substance of anything is we know not. In bodies, we see only their figures and colors, we hear only the sounds, we touch only their outward surfaces, we smell only the smells, and taste the savors; but their inward substances are not to be known either by our senses, or by any reflex act of our minds: much less, then have we any idea of the substance of God. We know him only by his most wise and excellent contrivances of things, and final causes: we admire him for his perfection's; but we reverence and adore him on account of his dominion: for we adore him as his servants; and a God without dominion, providence, and final causes, is nothing else but Fate and Nature. Blind metaphysical necessity, which is certainly the same always and everywhere, could produce no variety of things. All that diversity of natural things which we find suited to different times and places could arise from nothing but the ideas and will of a Being necessarily existing. But by way of allegory, God is said to see, to speak, to laugh, to love, to hate, to desire, to give, to receive, to rejoice, to be angry, to fight, to frame, to work, to build; for all our
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 PRG/X-PPAC Update - December 1 2005 From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 01:14:33 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:09:50 -0500 Subject: PRG/X-PPAC Update - December 1 2005 PRG Paradigm Research Group X-PPAC Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political Action Committee PRG/X-PPAC Update - December 2, 2005 Paul Hellyer/Canadian Election (Developing) At the Exopolitics Toronto Symposium on September 25 former Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister, Paul Hellyer, made an unambiguous statement as to an extraterrestrial presence. Since then he has continued to speak out and the Canadian press has continue to cover the issue. Now the Canadian government has been dissolved and a new election has been scheduled for January 23. This offers an unprecedented opportunity for exopolitics to be a factor in a parliamentary election creating a new government. All Canadians are encouraged to ask the candidates in their district and the leaders of the competing parties - Martin, Harper, etc. - to speak openly and candidly to this matter. The honorable Mr. Hellyer will be George Noory's guest tonight (Wednesday) on Coast to Coast AM. Links www.coasttocoastam.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer (Wikipedia entry) http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20051124/bs_prweb/prweb314382_1 (Yahoo News) www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2005/11/26/pf-1324951.html (Edmonton Sun) X-PPAC The Google search protocol lists sites in order of frequency of request and linkage. For that reason it is notable that when a restricted search for "political action committee" is entered, the 14th listing out of 1,680,000 is X-PPAC. For perspective, MoveOn.org is the 18th listing. X-PPAC may not have raised the money of a MoveOn.org (in excess of $100 million), but many know of it, and when the American people are ready to end the truth embargo once and for all and provide the funding required, X-PPAC will be there. San Francisco Appearance PRG Executive Director Stephen Bassett will talk exopolitics in San Francisco on December 13. For full details see: http://livingdirectory.net/display/events.php?login_group=FF Need to Know Radio - KTLK 1150 AM - Air America December 3 - Saturday, 11 pm - 1 am PST Stephen Bassett and Alfred Webre will talk Exopolitics with Bill Jenkins Archives Past PRG Updates are located at: www.paradigmclock.com/Press_Releases/Press_release_index.html#Updates Past X-PPAC Updates are located at: www.x-ppac.org/Press.html ________________________________________________________ Paradigm Research Group E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul URL: www.paradigmclock.com Cell: 202-215-8344 4938 Hampden Lane, #161 Bethesda, MD 20814 _________________________________________________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:54:18 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:12:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:17:08 -0500 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:39:59 EST >>Subject: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>Well I'll be gobsmacked! >>I was wondering if Art Bell would chime in on former Canadian >>Defense Minister Hellyer's campaign to disclose UFO/ET data, and >>Art did in a big way. >>Yet I was glued to my chair when popular radio host Alex Jones . >>spent a good deal discussing the matter as well on his broadcast >>today! >I suppose the antithesis of this was the interview of Sue Clancy >on National Public Radio in Washington, DC two days ago. >Maybe she will argue tht Hellyer was abducted... and you can't >believe those who have been abducted. Aloha Bruce and fellow Listerions, I say Aloha because I live in Hawaii, on a different island than Michael Salla. I seldom post these days as there has not been much on the list that I have felt I wanted to comment upon. It is unfortunate that Susan Clancy has made herself a public figure with her flawed conclusions in an area in which she has no expertise. I am still waiting for the day when there would be a professional multidisciplinary study of UFO abductions. However it is difficult to study a phenomenon that has no physical evidence. I don't mean scoop marks as they don't tell anything more than the person has those body marks. The mind and body can act together to produce stigmata. I am not trying to take an opinion on the abduction phenomena but I still do not think they have been adequately studied. As you know from my previous posts I think exopolitics is a pile of crap. Anyone who tries to point out the flaws in Michael Salla's approach finds they are talking to a deaf loon. Stan Friedman and Kevin Randle still respond to him and I suppose it helps point out the flaws of exopolitics to readers of the list. The recent exopolitics conference in Hawaii had the usual cast of nutty characters but also featured J.Z. Knight, the notorious channeler of Ramtha, an alleged 11,000 year old entity who she claims can predict the future. Interestingly none of those predictions ever turned into reality. Also featured was Joan Ocean, who swims with dolphins and learns their cosmic knowledge. You could not pay me enough to go to that new age amateur hour even if they provided free magic mushrooms. Who is Hellyer? A former Canadian Defence Minister who has no classified information regarding UFOs from his time in office but says that an unnamed general told him that the Corso book was true. So you have a second hand story with no verification and no evidence. Now he wants the Canadian government to examine the UFO phenomena. I am not Ramtha but I predict that will go absolutely nowhere. Remember how far Salla's buddy Stephen Greer ( a proven liar) got with the US Congress. They are not the leading edge of ufology but they are the hemorrhoid at the other end. Both their approaches are so flawed that no one in a serious position will entertain them. Greg Boone, I have not listened to Art Bell since his earliest years because he had no discrimination and featured every kind of nutcase telling their story that lacked any evidence. I don't know who Alex Jones is. I only know of him because our poster who claims the government has her under mind control and you have mentioned him. From what has been posted he sounds to me like another flake. Greg, I have read all your posts since you started on this list and to me you sound very naive. Greg, I am not personally attacking you but I take a hard ass detective position to separate truth from fiction. For many years I have become increasingly frustrated with the lack of backing for a serious professional investigation and scientific examination of the UFO phenomena. I have become increasingly hostile to all the amateur hour flakes who are full of crap and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 New UFO Investigative Imperative From Zy Ops From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:05:37 +0000 (GMT) Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:29:06 -0500 Subject: New UFO Investigative Imperative From Zy Ops New UFO Analytic Methodology proposal from Pzy-Op's Thursday 2130 GMT 1st December 2005 location central UK recieved by SymPathetic Quantum Similarity Resonance ear implant to satalite ESA Operative CitizensBand2cols ----- Analytic required of UFO's using Fundamental Transenmental Meditation involving Zen, the Cones of Toism and the gentle Art of Extremist Nethandahal Bohemian Troglodyte delusional illogical Computing.. ----- Reply. > Analysis outcome; All UFO's are highly advanced Extra Terresticular Into Stella Space Mother Craft. Some may be Human in origin but as non actually exist we keep an open mind on the subject. AND THATS OFFICIAL. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all UFO Update Lister's. ----- Questions arising - Who is Stella? and can we recommend TetraReCycling excorcise
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:57:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:30:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Chichikov >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 10:30:33 -0400 >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >Very good, Enrique. There's also this curious lack of the >originating photographer who has either gotten very shy or >doesn't want to answer questions. Anyone with deep pockets who wants to create a UFO on film might consider hiring the special effects wizards who work for BBC. They have gotten better and better over the years. I'm very much in sympathy with those who prefer tangible artifacts to images. This may be old hat to most of you, but what about Bernard Haisch's claim, below, that such artifacts exist. Please scroll down a bit for the claim.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Burns From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:58:33 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:33:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Burns >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:14:03 -0400 >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:08:59 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:53:04 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>I do not know how many downloads it will allow so I suppose its >>first come first served. >>You've got a file called "ufo video - bulgaria - >>incredible!.mpg" (9802 KB) from max.burns.nul >>waiting for download. ><snip> >Hi Max, >Too big for my out-in-the-country, dialup-fed system. Hello Don, Yes I can't say I miss my old 9.6kb dial up, it uses to kill me waiting for just a web page to load. Never mind the high spec windows 3.1 with a 33mhz cpu. I know someone in the UK, who suffered from the same problem as you they lived in a village. What happens in the UK is that the broadband supplier in the area has a web site and if enough people in the post code (Zip Code Area) area sign the list to say if you put it in the area will may have it this is not legally binding. Apparently everyone in the area signed the list and the supplier put the broadband in. I am not an expert but I am pretty certain in the UK its not much more than someone flipping a switch or opening the gate. You should write to your congressman no one should have to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Save Bob Pratt's Web Pages! - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:19:28 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:38:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Save Bob Pratt's Web Pages! - Boone There's a website called: http://web.archive.org It's an archive of websites from around the world. The late Mr. Bob Pratt's website is archived there as well. http://web.archive.org is a valuable tool when looking for info from long gone
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:30:32 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:40:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul><exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:09:04 -1000 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:01 EST >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >Much of this is supposition on your part. Dean is merely >describing the events that occurred where a senior officer gave >him a classified document that Dean's security clearance did not >entitle him to view. This was certainly a breach of security >procedures as you outline but you jump to many conclusions in >your view that this could not have happened, and a court martial >would have occurred. I can assume that these kinds of security >violations are fairly common in the military world where senior >officers can take more junior personnel into their confidence >despite the latter not having the right clearance. Sure, a >security violation that could technically land someone in a >court martial but for someone like Dean who had NATO Cosmic >clearance and reading the Assessment in the highly secure SHOC >room, I think the Colonel knew that Dean could keep confidence >which he did. Dean didn't come out publicly until some time >around 1991. That's almost 30 years after the event. >As to my thinking being flawed, I am merely narrating Dean's >version of events and giving an explanation for how and why his >story is plausible. I think you are ignoring human nature and >the system of informal paybacks that occur all the time in the >military, academic and corporate worlds. As far as I can tell, >humans still call the shots in such institutions and make >judgements about how to observe security procedures. <snip> Michael, here I would have to agree with you. I observed certain violations of security when I was in Security Service myself, but have heard many stories of security-type violations even in the Aerospace industry. As a matter of fact, I just heard one last night told to me by an ex-Lockheed worker. The whole Roswell story coming out as it did from military officers is a breech of security and I don't remember any of them being prosecuted.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: The Strange Death of James Forrestal - From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:53:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:42:44 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Death of James Forrestal - >Source: Phenomena Magazine <snip> >The Strange Death of James Forrestal >Did the man who created our modern Department of Defense take >his own life, or was it taken from him? >by Peter Robbins > Investigator <snip> >I am convinced that once James Forrestal broke under the >strain, he saw the writing on the wall and knew that if he did >not �do the right thing' -- that is, kill himself -- that others >would certainly do it for him. But once his darkest days began >to fall away, and the prescribed therapy actually began to >produce results, the patient on the sixteenth floor grew >stronger. He began to recover his sense of self, and his will to >live. This turn of events seems to have sealed his fate. >To the select group who held power in the U.S. in the mid- >twentieth century, James Forrestal's mental collapse had to be >treated as a priority national security matter: the man knew >everything and might say anything. The decision to force him out >of that window was in no way personal. The murder of James >Forrestal was simply the only way to guarantee the resolution of >what this group had come to perceive as a potential security >risk of the first magnitude. <snip>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:17:03 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:44:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Hall >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:59:47 -0600 >Subject: Lehmberg's Good News Plus >Good News Plus! >by Alfred Lehmberg >www.alienview.net <snip> >Last Tuesday, about eight o'clock in the morning and during some >news report about the aggregate egregiousness that our current >United States government had committed (but only at the tip of >the iceberg as the 'report' was received from the corrupt and >hijacked mainstream), I had a stroke... >Yeah... sincerely committed to the idea that I just may live >forever? I had a stroke. >Not a bad one, and not one requiring me to bang this essay out >with my forehead by any means... even as it's slowed me down... >but a stroke none the less. I'm left a little unsure on my feet, >I'm making a lot more mistakes as I type and I can't chord my >guitar... but hey... it could have been a lot worse. Now just get UFOs and the dreaded mainstream news media in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Smith From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:45:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:46:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Smith >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:59:47 -0600 >Subject: Lehmberg's Good News Plus <snip> Hope you recover from your stroke. We all got to watch our health! >The object appeared over the South South-West tree line, >brighter than Venus, at about 50 degrees elevation, and preceded >to travel Northerly at a rate of about 5 degrees in 15 seconds >until it disappeared, also at about 50 degrees elevation, in the >tree line to the North! The sighting happened between 05:15 and >05:20 hours, or thereabouts. >.... my location (ZIP code 36330). >A UFO, friends and neighbors! With any other name? It would >smell as sweet. Regarding your UFO sighting, though... I examined Heavens-Above for your latitude and longitude (31.340 N, 85.84 W) for the morning of December 1 (CST=GMT-6). It showed ISS appearing from 5:18 to 5:24, moving from SW to NE, magnitude -.6.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Richardson From: Geoff Richardson <geoff.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 17:43:02 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:52:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Richardson >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:59:47 -0600 >Subject: Lehmberg's Good News Plus <snip> >Thursday morning came >At about 05:15 hours Central Time, >The object appeared over the South South-West tree line, >brighter than Venus, at about 50 degrees elevation, and preceded >to travel Northerly at a rate of about 5 degrees in 15 seconds >until it disappeared, also at about 50 degrees elevation, in the >tree line to the North! The sighting happened between 05:15 and >05:20 hours, or thereabouts. <snip> Alfred, I received this from a good friend in S.C. I do not know if the geographics correlate at all, but... ------ Hey Geoff, Something strange happened this morn on our daily walkaround 6:00 am. The sky was clear,all the stars shining, NO Moon, therefore the sky patterns were very visable. We were bundled up because it was 25 degrees F. (Cold) Since it's still very dark out our focus is usually on the pavement especially L***, he never looks up. Anyway, all of a suddena very bright light from the southeast in the sky just lit up sobright that we both lifted our heads to see where this lightcame from. From the time we focused on it, it lasted another4 seconds and took about another 2 seconds to fade out. It was in the distance and looked about the size of a motor cyclelight - but not as round as it was elongated. It wasn't a plane -plane lights are no brighter than the stars. I wondered if it mighthave been a falling star that exploded before it hit the ground.But there were no trails or streaks going across the sky. You know how an explosion lights up -- well, it was like anexplosion but you couldn't see any debree falling from it. It was a strange thing that we've never experienced before. What does it sound like to you? P.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:50:45 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:55:35 -0500 Subject: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/Opinion/288932630355457.htm It wasn't long enough for the spit to dry before former Canadian deputy prime minister Paul Heller's UFO disclosure became the grist-for-the-mill of the press. In the article above, it's used in the lead of a story about upcoming U.S. deficits. Words like 'derangement' are used as well as 'silly'. It won't be long before Mr. Hellyer's medical records or some form of mandatory psychiatric evaluation is put into the works. Those of you who are silent are just as guilty as those who commit the acts.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:52:09 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:56:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Hatch >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:59:47 -0600 >Subject: Lehmberg's Good News Plus >Good News Plus! >by Alfred Lehmberg >www.alienview.net >My dear Mother made the disclosure to the first internet buddy >calling me on the telephone. She did it out of concern and fear >for what she knew was a sympathetic ear, but it was a disclosure >none the less, and I'd have soon we kept it to ourselves. <snip>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Back To Roswell - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 15:06:29 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 07:59:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Back To Roswell - Gehrman >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 14:07:22 +0000 (GMT) >Subject: Re: Re: Back To Roswell >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:27:10 -0800 >>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother >>And Stuart, you imply in your latest interview with Nick that >>his revelations have somehow ruined my life. >>http://tinyurl.com/969fe >Well, ruining your life might be overstating it a bit but you >were certainly extremely upset, sufficient to cancel a speaking >engagement. Have a look back at your email responses from that >time and try and look at them objectively. Stuart, Yes I was upset, not by Nick's thesis and research, but that you had accepted it as something that was equal in quality to the vast amount of information concerning the AA that has been collected by me and many others. That meant that you were not paying attention during our interview. I was disappointed in your judgement. I declined the Las Vegas engagement because of the circumstances of the offer. I found it strange that Nick had recommended me to Ryan Wood but didn't have the faintest idea about what I was working on or the content of my research. This bothered me since I had just finished "Project Beta". I just felt uncomfortable and exposed and have never liked Las Vegas, so I declined the invitation. >>I doubt that Nick's collection of motley facts is believed or >>endorsed by anyone. Is there someone on the list who will >>defend Nick? >I beg to differ Ed and I would certainly defend him and support >him as well. >>There is not a word that Nick has said or written that >>threatens the reality of the Alien Autopsy footage - or >>Roswell - or the Cameraman's crash site. There is still not >>one shred of evidence that the AA is hoaxed or fraudulent nor >>is there any evidence that the Cameraman's testimony is a >>fiction. I hope some of you reading this might decide to take >>another look. >In terms of offering conclusive evidence, you are right in that >nothing Nick has offered can be backed up by documentation. This means that he has nothing to offer but a strange story and you know what that's worth. >But no one, least of all Nick, is insisting you accept what he >says. You can reject it, as you have. I don't think that was my point; I was only confused about why you've accepted it. Can you tell me what it is about Nick's thesis that convinced you to reject my hypothesis and research regarding the AA and the crash site? >Life really is that simple at times, Ed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:21:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 08:00:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - >From: Joe McGonagle <Joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 00:17:00 +0000 >Subject: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface >Radar Reveals Ice Deep Below Martian Surface >15:00 30 November 2005 >NewScientist.com news service >Maggie McKee >MARSIS images from two different overhead passes reveal a >250 Km-wide buried impact basin. In the lower image, a linear >reflection nearly parallel to the surface is seen embedded in >the arcs =82 this may be the result of liquid water > >-snip- The Sun newspaper in the UK is also saying the ice in the buried crater may be liquid. A very brief article, but they are quoting Professor John Guest of University College: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005550842,00.html I checked, and yes, John Guest is involved with MARSIS (hadn't heard his name before): http://www.pparc.ac.uk/mars/bg_i_marsis.asp I'm curious now; New Scientist and The Sun are quoting two MARSIS scientists, that there may be liquid water in the bottom of that subsurface crater, one in the UK and one in the US (JPL). William Johnson (re New Scientist) is the one at JPL, although Jeffrey Plaut (also with MARSIS at JPL), and Giovanni Picardi (MARSIS, in Italy) have been quoted as saying that no evidence for liquid water had been found yet (ESA press release and BBC News). So are both "liquid water" stories just misquotes, or are there just divided opinions within MARSIS? Of course, as stated also, the main search for liquid water by MARSIS will begin later this winter / spring. The other major finding by Mars Express, as outlined in the press briefing on Wednesday, are the deposits of phyllosilicates (clay minerals). According to ESA, these indicate an early period of large amounts of stably present water (and non or less acidic, which is important), which pre-dated the salty, acidic water previously confirmed by the Opportunity rover in the sulphate bedrock outcrops (now thought most recently by the MER team to have been playas/groundwater, similar to the salt flats at White Sands, New Mexico): http://tinyurl.com/daogm Speaking of Mars, and relating to my other primary life-long interest in space exploration (besides my other crop circle work), I recently started a new blog, The Meridiani Journal; this one focusing on Mars as there is so much being discovered
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: The Strange Death of James Forrestal - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 20:42:06 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 08:40:28 -0500 Subject: Re: The Strange Death of James Forrestal - Boone >Source: Phenomena Magazine >http://tinyurl.com/a4bfd >Thursday, December 1, 2005 >The Strange Death of James Forrestal >Did the man who created our modern Department of Defense take >his own life, or was it taken from him? >by Peter Robbins > Investigator Wow! Leave it to Peter Robbins to come up with another knock out article! And timely too! Gosh would I love to tell the bigshots I know who are still eyeing the Forrestal story. If Peter or anyone who knows him is on the List, please send his email address. I've some info for him.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 George Knapp Shows Guts From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:13:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:13:13 -0500 Subject: George Knapp Shows Guts Source: The Las Vegas Review-Journal - Nevada, USA http://tinyurl.com/9xzl5 Dec. 03, 2005 Knapp Shows Guts By Treading On Shaky Ground Of UFO Sightings by Jane Ann Morrison Courage is required of any journalist who admits to believing in the possibility of UFOs because your peers turn on you. And your bosses worry that a UFO-loving reporter might lose some credibility with the public. Courage also is necessary to live on a remote Utah ranch and stay there for 20 months even when frightening and unexplained things occur as soon as you move in. George Knapp doesn't lack courage. And he's just co-authored a book about the family in Utah whose ranch was a site of unexplained paranormal activities. Knapp expects to be ridiculed once again by colleagues, and he's ready for that as he starts promoting his first book "Hunt For the Skinwalker." Ever since Knapp first broadcast a series in 1989 about mysterious happenings in the Nevada Test Site's Area 51, he's been mocked, even though the series won national journalism awards. "The ridicule comes from my fellow journalists," Knapp said. "The public can't get enough of it." The KLAS-TV, Channel 8 newsman is at the forefront of news stories covering political corruption and the mob, but the one subject the public brings up to him most often is UFOs. Knapp doesn't say yes, but he also doesn't say no when asked whether he believes in UFOs. Speaking carefully, he said that even if you eliminate the hoaxers and the deranged, there are still weird things happening out there. "They can't be explained, and they haven't been investigated," Knapp said. The events at a ranch in Utah that he and medical researcher Colm Kelleher wrote about are unique, he said. "They're ongoing, in one spot, over a long period of time." And they have been researched. After the strange activities drove the family out, Las Vegas businessman Robert Bigelow bought the ranch in 1996 and paid for a research team to study it for years. The book covers the period when the family lived there, and the studies by researchers afterward. Because of the sensitivity of the subject, the book is light on real names and doesn't reveal the exact location of the ranch 150 miles from Salt Lake City in the Uinta Basin. The book tracks the history of the types of paranormal activities found at the ranch and explains that "skinwalker" is a witch that takes the shape of an animal and cannot be killed. The opening chapter, which chronicles their first paranormal encounter with a wolf that would not die, is a gripper. As a believer in leaving trouble behind, I questioned why the family stayed when things were disappearing inside and outside the house, UFOs were floating around, their three dogs were killed in gruesome fashion and their cattle were mutilated. "At the end, the family was sleeping on the floor in one room together," Knapp said. So why not leave instead of waiting 20 months? The father was a proud, stubborn man, Knapp said. "He was convinced the military was doing it, and he was going to catch them." He didn't catch them, and the book offers no conclusions for what caused the strange happenings at Skinwalker Ranch. Knapp himself made four trips to the ranch, spending a total of 12 days there. "I thought my inherent weirdness quotient would attract something." So the researchers made noise, lit fires, disturbed the earth and tried to attract the weird by strapping Knapp to a chair in the middle of the night "to see if something would come to get me." He waited about 45 minutes. Nothing happened. The only creatures that came to get him were mosquitoes. I'm not a believer, partly because of my long-ago experience with a mischievous aunt who once reported seeing a UFO. She swore it was true, the story was printed in an Arkansas newspaper, and when UFO researchers interviewed her, she relayed detail after detail of her experience and never cracked. However, I knew it was a big, whopping lie enriched by Jim Beam. So I became a doubter. My one overnight trip to Rachel in search of aliens and UFOs ended in failure to find either, although it was unbelievably fun. So while I'm a skeptic, I won't deride Knapp. It takes guts to put your professional reputation on the line for something you
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 04:45:11 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:27:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Hatch >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 10:30:33 -0400 >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>From: Enrique Avalle <enrique.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul>, >>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 13:51:27 -0200 >>Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>I cannot be 100% sure, but my call is that the video is a fake. A good one, with assistance of heavy graphical processing, where the ufo is 3D, the camera movements have been tracked and inputed in the 3D scene, the building on the right appropriately masked in order to make the ufo dissapear behind, etc. ><snip> >Very good, Enrique. There's also this curious lack of the originating photographer who has either gotten very shy or doesn't want to answer questions. Hi Don: One other thing, the Bulgarian origin, if that's even true. I am
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 07:29:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:29:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Lehmberg >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:17:03 +0000 >Subject: Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:59:47 -0600 >>Subject: Lehmberg's Good News Plus >>Good News Plus! >>by Alfred Lehmberg >>www.alienview.net ><snip> >>Last Tuesday, about eight o'clock in the morning and during some >>news report about the aggregate egregiousness that our current >>United States government had committed (but only at the tip of >>the iceberg as the 'report' was received from the corrupt and >>hijacked mainstream), I had a stroke... >>Yeah... sincerely committed to the idea that I just may live >>forever? I had a stroke. >>Not a bad one, and not one requiring me to bang this essay out >>with my forehead by any means... even as it's slowed me down... >>but a stroke none the less. I'm left a little unsure on my feet, >>I'm making a lot more mistakes as I type and I can't chord my >>guitar... but hey... it could have been a lot worse. <snip> >Now just get UFOs and the dreaded mainstream news media in >perspective and you will have attained Nirvana. Bon voyage on >the continued seas of strife. I know I can count on you to share perspectives and entertain cogent debate on same, Sir. For my part? I would know a tree by its fruit, Sir... and there seems to be precious little 'nourishment' to be gained from what passes itself off as a fruit of our very suspect 'mainstream', a corrupt and hijacked mechanism to squeeze ever more from the futures of many what will only ever benefit the presents of the sociopathic few...? As regards UFOs? They exist, Sir, as you know, in a real world... and that should really be enough for anyone... should indeed be the impetus of a concerned and centralized focus of our attention. Yet, it is not. Our general denial or misrepresentation of these things seems to inextricably intertwine them... so, all things considered? It would appear that I might actually have a rational and even workable 'perspective' on these things, indeed, have a plan or clue in their regard. 'Nirvana' _has_ been achieved then, but like everything else? It's not what we thought it was... and a better thing for it. Additionally, I would hope that you are doing well, too, Mr. Hall... Secondly... With regard to the sighting reported in the snippage above? The satellite prediction service at: http://www.heavens-above.com/ seems to be a little more on the ball than the NASA site I was depending on... at: http://science.nasa.gov/Realtime/JTrack/3D/JTrack3D.html The former says it was the space station (ISS) for the date and time in question. The latter does not reflect it at all. Sorry to have gotten anybody's boxers in a bunch or wadded the odd thong... Seems like the prosaic won this particular hand. Truth is _still_ weirder than fantasy... Thirdly? I got my guitar back this morning... a _kind_ of nirvana. Big sigh of relief on my part, you can bet. Paul Kimball understands.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 07:38:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:31:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus - Lehmberg >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:45:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >Subject: Re: Lehmberg's Good News Plus >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:59:47 -0600 >>Subject: Lehmberg's Good News Plus ><snip> >Hope you recover from your stroke. We all got to watch our >health! Thanks for you concern, Sir. Well, _be_, you know? >>The object appeared over the South South-West tree line, >>brighter than Venus, at about 50 degrees elevation, and preceded >>to travel Northerly at a rate of about 5 degrees in 15 seconds >>until it disappeared, also at about 50 degrees elevation, in the >>tree line to the North! The sighting happened between 05:15 and >>05:20 hours, or thereabouts. >>.... my location (ZIP code 36330). >>A UFO, friends and neighbors! With any other name? It would >>smell as sweet. >Regarding your UFO sighting, though... Great minds must think alike... eh, Mr. Smith?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn - From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 07:43:05 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:32:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn - >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:50:45 EST >Subject: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn >http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/Opinion/288932630355457.htm >It wasn't long enough for the spit to dry before former Canadian >deputy prime minister Paul Heller's UFO disclosure became the >grist-for-the-mill of the press. >In the article above, it's used in the lead of a story about >upcoming U.S. deficits. Words like 'derangement' are used as >well as 'silly'. >It won't be long before Mr. Hellyer's medical records or some >form of mandatory psychiatric evaluation is put into the works. >Those of you who are silent are just as guilty as those who >commit the acts. Right on, Brother!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 03:54:29 -1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:34:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:30:32 -0800 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:09:04 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:01 EST >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique ><snip> >>Much of this is supposition on your part. Dean is merely >>describing the events that occurred where a senior officer gave >>him a classified document that Dean's security clearance did not >>entitle him to view. This was certainly a breach of security >>procedures as you outline but you jump to many conclusions in >>your view that this could not have happened, and a court martial >>would have occurred. I can assume that these kinds of security >>violations are fairly common in the military world where senior >>officers can take more junior personnel into their confidence >>despite the latter not having the right clearance. Sure, a >>security violation that could technically land someone in a >>court martial but for someone like Dean who had NATO Cosmic >>clearance and reading the Assessment in the highly secure SHOC >>room, I think the Colonel knew that Dean could keep confidence >>which he did. Dean didn't come out publicly until some time >>around 1991. That's almost 30 years after the event. >>As to my thinking being flawed, I am merely narrating Dean's >>version of events and giving an explanation for how and why his >>story is plausible. I think you are ignoring human nature and >>the system of informal paybacks that occur all the time in the >>military, academic and corporate worlds. As far as I can tell, >>humans still call the shots in such institutions and make >>judgements about how to observe security procedures. ><snip> >Michael, here I would have to agree with you. I observed certain >violations of security when I was in Security Service myself, >but have heard many stories of security-type violations even in >the Aerospace industry. As a matter of fact, I just heard one >last night told to me by an ex-Lockheed worker. >The whole Roswell story coming out as it did from military >officers is a breech of security and I don't remember any of >them being prosecuted. Thanks Bill for the examples. I checked my notes after a conversation with Bob Dean, here's what I wrote concerning the security procedures when he read the Assessment: "Dean says that while he didn't have Ultra clearance, something that the Colonel and other officers possessed, he never had a problem in signing out the document out. When I asked how that could be given the security procedures that typically occur with UFO topics, Dean says that security procedures in SHOC were pretty relaxed for senior NCOs who were responsible for the efficient running of the war room. He says that as a senior NCO who was responsible for the duty rosters, he never got into trouble for signing out the Assessment from the vault for his private reading while in SHOC." (Personal Notes, Sept 16, 2005). So I think Dean's story is entirely plausible and that Kevin Randle's objection is an unrealistically rigid assessment of security procedures in military operations of which he has no direct experience. Dean served in SHOC, Randle hasn't.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 3 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:10:33 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:36:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:54:18 -0800 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:17:08 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:39:59 EST >>>Subject: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure <snip> >Greg Boone, I have not listened to Art Bell since his earliest >years because he had no discrimination and featured every kind >of nutcase telling their story that lacked any evidence. I don't >know who Alex Jones is. I only know of him because our poster >who claims the government has her under mind control and you >have mentioned him. From what has been posted he sounds to me >like another flake. Greg, I have read all your posts since you >started on this list and to me you sound very naive. >Greg, I am not personally attacking you but I take a hard ass >detective position to separate truth from fiction. For many >years I have become increasingly frustrated with the lack of >backing for a serious professional investigation and scientific >examination of the UFO phenomena. I have become increasingly >hostile to all the amateur hour flakes who are full of crap and >who turn the thinking public into feeling the UFO field is >comprised of only nutcases. Hello Mr Goldstein, Greg, Bruce and All, Won't get involved in any personal stuff, but like to help folk showing signs of despondency (and maybe even cynicism): maybe from expecting too much of humans' media. A rule-of-thumb is that those in "authority" have nasty things to conceal - mainly because nasty people want and get authority. And concealment always leads to entrenched dogmatism on _all_ subjects, especially those affecting our thought processes: that's facts about the world, its people, science and education generally. And the media, like the police and the military, are (mostly) tools of authority in their cover-ups. [Some know how much anger I've had from List "book scientists" for saying things which are now being accepted (by the field- leaders anyway). Simple things like 'inertia' = 'momentum' fr'instance. That's "authority" getting irate over free thinking - which turned out to be correct.] Real skeptics (test everything) are great, and Diogenes (an early 'cynic') is my personal hero, but feel that hard-line unreasoning skepticism or cynicism is a sign of old-age or disappointment souring a person's disposition. And favorite rule-of-thumb is: don't rule out anything a priori. I.e. cherish naivety - without it we wouldn't be asking those important questions. Take it easy. Cheers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Back To Roswell - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 16:34:01 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:10:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Back To Roswell - Bourdais >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:57:50 +0000 (GMT) >Subject: Re: Back To Roswell >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:26:28 -0800 >>Subject: Back To Roswell [was:'Alien' Faces Are None Other >>Than Mother] >>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:16:53 +0000 (GMT) >>>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother <snip> >>>You may be right, and Nick has consistently said that he >>>can't rule out a disinfo element, but to put his own point >>>back to you, why? Why stir up attention and debate on a case >>>that from a research perspective had virtually died, that >>>wasn't being actively discussed, and which irritates the >>>crap out of most serious Ufologists? >>First of all, the case is far from dead and I certainly >>dispute that it "irritates the crap out of most serious >>Ufologists." Stuart, David and All, I agree with all what David said, on Roswell and on the book of Nick Redfern. I have not seen anywhere that the debate on Roswell is dead. What we see is the Mogul phantom balloon fading away (Mogul 4 which was never launched!), even though some still cling to it, like ABC (for how much time?). So, it is logical to suppose that a new theory may have been devised to replace it. Since the new story in Body Snatchers has been told to Nick Redfern, according to him, by an impressive bunch of "insiders", it raises the question of a possible operation of disinformation. But the first question to ask is that of the plausibility of the story. That's the question I tried to resolve, with others on this List, the result being that it is a highly dubious story. Yes, it was a very hot debate on UFO UpDates, last summer. I presented my analysis recently at two conferences, In Italy (at Cozensa) and in France (in Chalons-en-Champagne) and it was not a very difficult task to explain that. My analysis has also been published, to a large extent, in the MUFON UFO Journal of November. And it can be read, in its entirety on the web at: http://www.ovni.ch/home/frame4.htm See also the good article of Robert Durant in the last IUR. I wish to summarise, here, some ot the main arguments against it. The main one is what I consider to be the major flaw (the "fatal" flaw, in fact) of his story - several of his informers told him that handicapped Japanese prisoners had been brought from Manchuria. It is an impossible tale, as revealed by history books. The Russains invaded Manchuria in less than two weeks, and the Japanese had killed all the remaining prisoners before their arrival. In addition to that, they used healthy prisoners for their experiments. The second major point: debris of balloons and of an airplane would have been easily identified as such by the Air Force officers of Roswell. There would have been no press release. And if, nevertheless, they had made such an incredible blunder, witnesses like Jesse Marcel, Gen. DuBose and others would have not been proud of it and would not have said a word about it thirty years later, most probably. Another big point, which was actually the first debated on UpDates (by Bob Shell and others), is the argument of the alien autopsy film which, according to his first informers in London, showed a deformed japanese prisoner! His informers mentioned progeria, Werner and Ellis van-Creweld syndromes. When I told the story at conferences in France and Italy, people had a good laugh. Still another big point is that, if his "horrible truth" was the thing to hide "ar all costs", why did several insiders reveal it to him in the first place? This is absurd, obviously. On the contrary, it make sense to suppose that, the same as some bogus crash stories were "planted" to hide the real one at Roswell (an maybe others), the game is going on with that new tale. By the same token, if his story were right, it would have been so much easier for the Air Force to just tell it, especially after the revelations of the ACHRE commission on human experiments, rather
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Show Host Alex Jones Again On UFOs From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 14:23:19 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:12:41 -0500 Subject: Show Host Alex Jones Again On UFOs Alex Jones has one of the coolest talk shows out there. He does tons of research and produces alarming evidence and proof to what he says. He again added into the mix on UFOs when a lady called in on Friday. He told her, and I'm not quoting, that flying saucers had been disclosed as German rocket technology of some sort and that there were documents that had been released to prove it. Anybody tune in and hear this? If Jones feels like the saucer controversy has already been solved he must have seen something to back this up. Who knows, Jones may have data that he's not interested in and didn't realize how many people are interested in the subject.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:11:29 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:20:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:10:33 +0000 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:54:18 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:17:08 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 15:39:59 EST >>>>Subject: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure ><snip> >>Greg Boone, I have not listened to Art Bell since his earliest >>years because he had no discrimination and featured every kind >>of nutcase telling their story that lacked any evidence. I don't >>know who Alex Jones is. I only know of him because our poster >>who claims the government has her under mind control and you >>have mentioned him. From what has been posted he sounds to me >>like another flake. Greg, I have read all your posts since you >>started on this list and to me you sound very naive. Greg, EBK, Listers. I happen to know quite a lot about Alex Jones. Ray wrote, "I don't know who Alex Jones is" "From what has been posted he sounds to me like another flake." Hmm, well how very scientific. First things first. FYI. Alex Jones is a Journalist/Radio/TV/presenter, who has been doing a sterling job on the Waco murders exposure and was instrumental in the organising of the rebuilding of the Church on the site. Calling among other things for Janet Reno to face the music for the murder of 17 children. He was also the man who filmed Bohemian Grove, where, it is claimed, US policy is set. There is evidence to support this as in everything Alex Jones says He has the support of Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney also Congressman Ron Paul and others. At present he has been looking into 9/11, but more importantly Patriot Act 1 and the sequel, Patriot Act 2, plus other end-runs around the American constitution. I don't know if any of you have actually read the Patriot Act? If you are an American citizen, you should be concerned... In summary Alex Jones does excellent research fully supported by documents interviews etc. In his own words. "Don't Just take my word for it, check this information out for yourselves" On his web sites you can download many free clips of interviews and documentaries. As well as purchase high quality documentaries, research all the documents that he has used to uncover the crime that is being committed on the American people by the corrupt administration: www.infowars.com www.prisonplanet.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn - From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 21:11:09 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:22:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn - >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:50:45 EST >Subject: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn >http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/Opinion/288932630355457.htm >It wasn't long enough for the spit to dry before former Canadian >deputy prime minister Paul Heller's UFO disclosure became the >grist-for-the-mill of the press. >In the article above, it's used in the lead of a story about >upcoming U.S. deficits. Words like 'derangement' are used as >well as 'silly'. >It won't be long before Mr. Hellyer's medical records or some >form of mandatory psychiatric evaluation is put into the works. >Those of you who are silent are just as guilty as those who >commit the acts.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:15:20 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:09:04 -1000 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:01 EST >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 05:13:29 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:28:28 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >>>As for the Canadian Senate, I think you miss the point. When >>>someone with Hellyer's credentials comes forward to support >>>Corso's claims, people have great difficulty in ignoring what >>>Hellyer says. The fact that Hellyer confirmed Corso's claims >>>through his own network of military and political contacts, is >>>something that makes others think anew about Corso's testimony >>>and its implications. I believe that what we are witnessing is >>>the start of a political process whereby Canada may be the >>>world's first legislative body that discusses the policy >>>implications of the weaponization of Space in relation to the >>>extraterrestrial hypothesis. That is a positive development and >>>I hope you lend your support to it based on your Cosmic >>>Watergate thesis, rather than doggedly stick to your position >>>that Corso's testimony is invalid. You are wrong about Corso and >>>it's time you reconsider your position. >>Unless there have been new developments, my understanding was >>that Hellyer said that he had spoken with an unidentified Air >>Force general who said that Corso's story was accurate. This is >>not the same as Hellyer confirming Corso's claims through a >>network of military and political contacts. >I had a private conversation with Paul Hellyer in early November >and asked if he could give more details about the USAF General >and anyone else he spoke to in order to confirm Corso's >testimony. He couldn't give me more information about the >General in order to maintain confidentiality, but mentioned >other public officials, some senior, that confirmed Corso's >story. He wouldn't give me more information about them, but >essentially Hellyer was saying that he confirmed Corso's story >by speaking with a number of officials including the retired >General. So Hellyer did confirm Corso's claims through a network >of military and political contacts. >>It can also mean that this unidentified general knew that the >>story of the crashed saucer was true, that Corso had written >>about the crashed saucer, so the overall broad strokes were true >>but not necessarily the finer details such as Corso's >>implausible tale of seeing the body of an alien in a wooden >>shipping box at Ft. Riley, Kansas. >>I'm very much afraid that we are not wrong about Corso. He >>provided nothing to confirm his tale and showed his true colors >>with his actions with the Foreword of his book, the >>embellishment of his credentials and the injection of himself >>into several UFO stories. >>And contrary to your claims, these are not minor >>inconsistencies, but real problems that should raise some red >>flags. Adequate explanation has not been offered. >The only thing red in the argument you are making are the red >herrings that you use in your attempt to discredit Corso. These >alleged embellishments and insertions of himself into UFO >stories are distractions from Corso's central claims. He was the >head of the Foreign Technology Desk at Army Research and >Development and participated in a covert program authorized by >Lt General Arther Trudea to seed civilian industries with >extraterrestrial technologies. Those are the central claims made >by Corso and are supported by Corso's military records >documenting his position where he could have played such a role. >Since you support the existence of a Cosmic Watergate, it's only >logical to assume that the military would covertly implement >such a program in order to upgrade the technological base of the >civilian sector. I assume you and Stan would agree that would be >both feasible and logical given the technological superiority of >visiting ETs and the secrecy that was adopted as a national >security policy. What better branch of the military than the >Foreign Technology Desk at Army R & D to play such a role since >they already had an extensive network of technology development >programs with various corporations and could simply say that the >ET technology was 'foreign technology'? It's only logical to >assume that such a covert program existed, and that someone like >Lt General Arther Trudea as head of Army R & D would have played >a key role. Since Corso served for some time as Trudeau's >military aide, then it is logical to assume that he was given >that covert assignment by Trudeau when he was assigned to the >FTD. >I hope that reseachers finally focus on Corso's central claims >rather than the red herrings you offer to diminish the >importance of his testimony. I don't want to join into the debate between Kevin Randle and Michael Salla. I believe that Michael Salla is making faulty assumptions and that Kevin Randle is doing an excellent job of illustrating and countering those flaws. I just want to point out that both Robert Dean and Lt. Col. Corso were both in positions where they could have been easily recruited by the military for disinformation projects. When there is a lack of real evidence to support claims then a disinformation program or other motivations can not be eliminated as a possibility. Those programs are more complex than most people imagine and sometimes recruit people after they have left the service. Then again, Dean and Corso could have just been telling tall tales to inflate their egos. A lack of real evidence allows any possibility to be entertained. For all we know, Exopolitics and the Disclosure Project may be deliberate disinformation programs. For all you know I may be on this list as part of a disinformation program. I can say no but I may be lying. However I doubt that a review of my years of posts in the archives would be seen as disinformation, just as misinformation. <g> Disinformation = misinformation = disinformation. It's a puzzle palace. However a lack of evidence does not allow any proof of claims. A first rule of any professional investigator is not to come to any conclusions until all possible evidence is obtained and examined. I believe Mr. Salla has put the cart of speculation before the horse of evidence. Dr. Salla, please do not respond to me as I consider that you are living outside the bounds of reality. At the recent Exopolitics conference here in Hawaii some of the featured presenters were J.Z. Knight, who claims she channels and receives predictions from an 11,000 year old entity named Ramtha. Another presenter was Joan Ocean, who swims with Dolphins and claims to receive their cosmic wisdom. Dr. Salla, I don't know why you are still looking for UFO answers. I would think channeling would answer them. Or do you
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Back To Roswell - Miller From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:20:47 +0000 (GMT) Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:32:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Back To Roswell - Miller >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 15:06:29 -0800 >Subject: Re: Back To Roswell >>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 14:07:22 +0000 (GMT) >>Subject: Re: Re: Back To Roswell >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:27:10 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother Hi Ed >>>And Stuart, you imply in your latest interview with Nick >>>that his revelations have somehow ruined my life. >>>http://tinyurl.com/969fe >>Well, ruining your life might be overstating it a bit but you >>were certainly extremely upset, sufficient to cancel a >>speaking engagement. Have a look back at your email responses >>from that time and try and look at them objectively. >Yes I was upset, not by Nick's thesis and research, but that >you had accepted it as something that was equal in quality to >the vast amount of information concerning the AA that has been >collected by me and many others. >That meant that you were not paying attention during our >interview. I was disappointed in your judgement. I had every sympathy with you at the time Ed, and still do, and I'm sorry if you feel I let you down. What can I say? One doesn't choose the moment that one has a major paridigm shift - they just happen. Nick's work struck a resonance with me and it's still chiming away inside my brain. It took a long period of adjustment. But I am not someone who insists they're right or is closed minded to other possibilities. I think in this business that would be foolish. My thinking on Ufology is not kept in closed compartments. I don't dismiss outright the work you've done. That may seem completely contradictory as I suspect that for you it has to be one or the other, but I'm simply not prepared to draw a line in my mind under the work that you've done. And as I told you in a private email, I do believe you have discovered a real landing site although I suspect that it was a balloon landing. I'm not totally indiscriminate. For example, I have no time for the Serpo nonsense currently doing the rounds and am intrigued and bemused by the intense pressure that is taking place in some quarters to accept it as true. I find this very interesting. I don't want to put words into your mouth but I think what you mean above when you say that I wasn't paying attention when we spoke is your way of saying I wasn't convinced by what you said. I don't think that's fair. >I declined the Las Vegas engagement because of the >circumstances of the offer. I found it strange that Nick had >recommended me to Ryan Wood but didn't have the faintest idea >about what I was working on or the content of my research. But he did and has told you so, and if I may say, it is now you not paying attention. I think you need to broaden your horizons here a bit and be more accepting of the fact that other people's ideas that might be completely contrary to yours can sit quite comfortably alongside your views without conflict. Your views are contrary to Nicks but he was well aware of the work you were doing and thought it deserved wider exposure. Yes, I understand the affect that Project Beta had on you. It was the first body blow and then Bodysnatchers comes along and puts in a real low kick right into the gonads. I suspect that you thought you might have been ambushed in Vegas and possibly even ridiculed. At the risk of stating the obvious, you should have had more confidence not only in what you were offering but also in your ability to deal with difficult questions. I think you would have coped. Furthermore, you would have been amongst like-minded friends in Vegas. It was Nick Redfern who stood much more chance of being lynched. >This bothered me since I had just finished "Project Beta". I >just felt uncomfortable and exposed and have never liked Las >Vegas, so I declined the invitation. >>>I doubt that Nick's collection of motley facts is believed >>>or endorsed by anyone. Is there someone on the list who will >>>defend Nick? >>I beg to differ Ed and I would certainly defend him and >support him as well. >>>There is not a word that Nick has said or written that >>>threatens the reality of the Alien Autopsy footage - or >>>Roswell - or the Cameraman's crash site. There is still not >>>one shred of evidence that the AA is hoaxed or fraudulent nor >>>is there any evidence that the Cameraman's testimony is a >>>fiction. I hope some of you reading this might decide to >>>take another look. >>In terms of offering conclusive evidence, you are right in >>that nothing Nick has offered can be backed up by >>documentation. >This means that he has nothing to offer but a strange story >and you know what that's worth. Actually Ed, there isn't a lot of doucumentation around that confirms anything about anything in relation to Roswell and the surrounding events. >>But no one, least of all Nick, is insisting you accept what >>he says. You can reject it, as you have. >I don't think that was my point; I was only confused about why >you've accepted it. Can you tell me what it is about Nick's >thesis that convinced you to reject my hypothesis and research >regarding the AA and the crash site? I have answered this above. >>Life really is that simple at times, Ed. >Yes I agree, but since I thought you were my date to the prom, >you can see why I was upset that you showed up with Nick.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 15:23:34 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 19:14:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - >From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:21:53 -0800 >Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface >>From: Joe McGonagle <Joe.mcgonagle.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 00:17:00 +0000 >>Subject: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface Hello Paul, >>Radar Reveals Ice Deep Below Martian Surface >>15:00 30 November 2005 >>NewScientist.com news service >>Maggie McKee <snip> >I'm curious now; New Scientist and The Sun are quoting two >MARSIS scientists, that there may be liquid water in the bottom >of that subsurface crater, one in the UK and one in the US >(JPL). William Johnson (re New Scientist) is the one at JPL, >although Jeffrey Plaut (also with MARSIS at JPL), and Giovanni >Picardi (MARSIS, in Italy) have been quoted as saying that no >evidence for liquid water had been found yet (ESA press release >and BBC News). So are both "liquid water" stories just >misquotes, or are there just divided opinions within MARSIS? I think that the answer is that liquid water is just one possible cause of the readings, and that the readings alone don't constitute evidence of liquid water per se. It may be the most likely cause of the readings, but science is (understandably) cautious when it comes to speculation in public. Congratulations on your blog at: www.themeridianijournal.blogspot.com It is developing nicely, and so far appears to leave out the ridiculous claims evident at sites like: www.marsanomalyresearch.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn - From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 09:23:50 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:15:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn - >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 21:11:09 +0000 >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn >>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:50:45 EST >>Subject: Hellyer's Impact U.S. Press Grist For Scorn >>http://www.sedaliademocrat.com/Opinion/288932630355457.htm >>It wasn't long enough for the spit to dry before former Canadian >>deputy prime minister Paul Heller's UFO disclosure became the >>grist-for-the-mill of the press. >>In the article above, it's used in the lead of a story about >>upcoming U.S. deficits. Words like 'derangement' are used as >>well as 'silly'. >>It won't be long before Mr. Hellyer's medical records or some >>form of mandatory psychiatric evaluation is put into the works. >>Those of you who are silent are just as guilty as those who >>commit the acts. >Why assume that once a politician become an ex-politician we >have to start taking everything he says seriously? Why, that would be for the same reason that Dr. J. Allen Hynek was able to qualify the observations of an observer with regard to an unusual observation because their behavior as an observing instrument had been qualified over an extended period of time _as_ a quality observing instrument (Hynek's UFOE p. 21). This is precisely why the Trindade, Zamora, and Gill cases remain interesting, much to _your_ 'horror' and 'chagrin' Mr. Rimmer ...why you are so furiously passionate in trying to discredit them. But for the _too_ furious (and therefore suspicious) character-bashing of _some_ canted ideologues? Mr. Hellyer's past professional behavior has been _abundantly_ honorable, so we might be a _little_ more confident in the accuracy of his current observations, even as they push a cockle-burr up under _your_ ufological thong, Sir. It remains, Hellyer is BIG news
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Darryl Barker <admin.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:46:32 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:23:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:11:29 -0000 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >><snip> >Greg, EBK, Listers. >I happen to know quite a lot about Alex Jones. >At present he has been looking into 9/11, but more importantly >Patriot Act 1 and the sequel, Patriot Act 2, plus other >end-runs around the American constitution. I don't know if any >of you have actually read the Patriot Act? When it comes to discussing UFOs on the air, Alex Jones is the perfect target for a disinfo campaign. I would not assume that he has some inside UFO info that other long-time UFO reseachers do not. As Max Burns said, Alex Jones has been doing a great job on investigating 9/11 and Bush administration involvement. Getting Jones involved in the UFO discussion "on the air" is all the dark side needs to start discrediting him as a nutcase. Regarding the claim that the Germans (the Nazis of WWII, I assume) are the explanantion for "flying sacuers", the US was also experimenting with saucer shaped vehicles, but some UFO historians say they never reached air worthiness (e.g. able to shoot straight up at 700 mph). Alex should be cautious when entering the UFO discussion, because we saw what was said about Hellyer and also about BYU physics professor, Stephen Jones, who recently went on-line with an academic paper that says there must be a new investigation into 9/11 thats examines the hypothesis that the world trade centers were brought down with professional, pre-positioned charges, not airplane crashes and their fuel burns alone. Stephen Jones was invited on MSNBC Tucker Carlson's show and after that the on-line blogs attacking Prof. Jones were unbelievable. After five days of neutrality, BYU finally issued a statement that BYU did not support Jone's paper or hypothesis. The disinfo campaign is ruthless and they will go after anyone who tries to bring any truth to what happened on 9/11. I've
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Back To Roswell - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 16:16:13 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:26:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Back To Roswell - Balaskas >From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 12:57:50 +0000 (GMT) >Subject: Re: Back To Roswell >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:26:28 -0800 >>Subject: Back To Roswell [was:'Alien' Faces Are None Other >>Than Mother] >>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul> >>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:16:53 +0000 (GMT) >>>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother <snip> >>>You may be right, and Nick has consistently said that he >>>can't rule out a disinfo element, but to put his own point >>>back to you, why? Why stir up attention and debate on a case >>>that from a research perspective had virtually died, that >>>wasn't being actively discussed, and which irritates the >>>crap out of most serious Ufologists? >>First of all, the case is far from dead and I certainly >>dispute that it "irritates the crap out of most serious >>Ufologists." New information continues to be uncovered. >I think you might know where I was coming from when I said this. >I have lost count of the number of times I have read >of people making negative comments about the case. Generally the >feeling is that because of the media beanfest over the years, >the case is perceived as detracting from Ufology being taken >seriously, and indeed from Ufology moving on. I'm _not_ alleging >everyone feels that way, but certainly many do. >As for myself, it's certainly a case I respect and one that I >feel modern Ufology owes pretty much everything to. But I think >Nick got it right or has got very close to it with >Bodysnatchers, and while one cannot rules out further surprises, >I think we're on the right lines. Hi Stuart, David, Everyone! Last month in the mail I received a signed copy of Nick Redfern's book, 'Body Snatchers In The Desert' (the prepublication Advanced Uncorrected Proofs which did not include any photos/plates and no index). This week, also in the mail, I received a signed copy of Ryan S. Wood's new book 'MAJIC Eyes Only'. Although Wood's book gives accounts on 74 suspected UFO crashes since the late 20th century, it omits many others (eg. the pre-WWII UFO crashes in Germany and Italy that I think gave the Axis their technological edge during the war). Certain important photos/plates included in Wood's book which were not made public before may be the visual evidence we are looking that proves "something" did indeed crash near Roswell in 1947 and possibly even allow us to conclude if that "something" was from Earth (Redfern's thesis) or from somewhere out there (Wood's claim). The first of these Roswell UFO crash photos allegedly depicts the burning crash debris at one of the UFO crash sites near the White Sands Proving Ground site on July 4, 1947. The next two are aerial photos taken of one the UFO crash sites that is next to the Trinity Site where the world first nuclear bomb was detonated (suggesting that there is a real connection between UFOs and our nuclear bomb activities). The fourth picture, taken off the TV screen, is a close-up of unidentified wreckage allegedly from one of the Roswell UFO crashs. The fifth picture allegedly is of the New Mexico landscape covered with large UFO crash debris which some researchers, including Wendy Connors and Ed Gehrman may find familiar. The sixth and final picture is of President Truman (outdoors at night?) together with two military officers and one civilian in a business suit. Are these new pictures more disinformation about the Roswell UFO incident that some of us have dismissed and long forgotten about? For whatever reasons, not all leaked documents and photos currently in the possession of "The Majestic Investigation Team"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 4 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:36:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:27:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:11:29 -0000 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure <snip> >In summary Alex Jones does excellent research fully supported by >documents interviews etc. I've been a very frequent listener to Alex Jones for three years now. As a member of the group many call "Patriot broadcasters", our anti-vigilante stalking/electronic harassment group pays close attention to these broadcasts, because all of the broadcasters either know about, or are experiencing, VS/EH themselves. My closest colleague from the Austin, Texas area has worked for some years with Alex as a part time electronic news gatherer, and knows Alex's staffers well. Both she and I give Alex generally top marks. He has a famous "Rolodex memory" and can out debate almost anyone on any of the government and corporate crime topics he covers. But Alex has one little weakness, according to Sueann, my colleague: Once in a while he will overextend his proven data and say things which are not as solidly "admitted" (his favourite term) as he avers. Since Alex doesn't really focus on UFOs or abductions, I would not personally take what he says as gospel. On his main topics, he's pretty close to that standard, though. ** As a sidelight, over the past year, I've noticed that UFO and abduction discussions are happening with increasing frequency on
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 18:13:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:49:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - >From: Joe McGonagle <Joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 00:17:00 +0000 >Subject: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface >Radar Reveals Ice Deep Below Martian Surface >15:00 30 November 2005 >NewScientist.com news service >Maggie McKee <snip> >The first ever underground investigation of another planet has >been performed by a radar antenna aboard Europe's Mars Express >spacecraft. The instrument probed two kilometres below the >Martian surface and found tantalising hints of liquid water >pooling in a buried impact crater. <snip> >Full article at: >http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn8397 Hi Joe! Maggie McKee was not correct when she stated in her New Scientist article above that the European Mars Express was the first to do an underground radar investigation of Mars. The November/December 2005 Issue of 'Infinite Energy' (pages 26 to 30), has another related article titled 'Radar Evidence for Underground Liquid Water on Mars' by Dr. Jesse C. James which can also be found on his web site below. jcjames.home.att.net Since radar frequencies in the MHz range can penetrate tens of meters below dry material but will be reflected by the presence of liquid water, radar studies of Mars' northern hemisphere during the close approaches of Mars in 1963 and 1965 provided the first indirect evidence that liquid water existed beneath the Martian surface. Although such radar echos can have non- liquid water explanations, considering the locations and the large sizes of the regions where these radar echos originated from, the liquid water explanation is considered to be the only reasonable one. In 2007 when NASA's Mars Phoenix 'Scout Mission", whose motto is to "follow the water", is launched for a landing in the southern polar region of Mars in 2008, the York University scientists selected to scoop up the Martian soil and to determine the amount of frozen water present will be the first with direct evidence of water on Mars. Although liquid water will quickly evaporate in the thin Martian atmosphere, the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft still in orbit around Mars has provided us with many examples of water soaked dark stains on the surface of Mars. These short-lived ponds and streams of liquid water that gushed out from beneath the much warmer surface of Mars were not present in MGS photos taken of the same areas before or after. Ceres, a smaller spherical planetoid/asteroid between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter is now suspected to have more water beneath its surface than all the water in Earth's oceans. Since Ceres has a much lower gravity than Mars, it may be the closest and easiest place to fill up on water in our inner solar system. We should not be surprised if we find evidence that thirsty ETs have also visited Ceres in the past. Although our American cousins to the south may run out of fresh water before oil and since bottled water per litre already sells for more than gasoline, I would not also be surprised if their new private space programs make money by providing clean ice cold bottled water from Ceres (or by dropping icey chunks of Ceres into our
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 STS-114 'Anomaly' From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:23:27 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:57:17 -0500 Subject: STS-114 'Anomaly' I've written an article about an STS-114 video showing an object that has been considered anomalous because it reverses course in the middle of the video in a way that cannot be attributed to a thruster firing: http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/STS-48/STS-114/STS-114.pdf As I suspected, there's enough atmosphere at the altitude the shuttle was flying to explain the object's motion if it is assumed that it was just close enough to the camera to be in focus. The object originally was moving "against the wind" and could have been a small ice particle blown back in the opposite direction - moving with the wind. The object would have had to be smaller than the camera's resolution, but not unreasonably so considering it was illuminated by sunlight and the camera was set for low light levels. I generally don't spend much time writing about things that I think can be discounted as true anomalies. Writing is hard work and I find it hard to get motivated enough to write about boring old "prosaic" explanations. But in this case, I thought it was interesting how velocities and accelerations in 3-D can
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 Colin Andrews Responds To Articles From: Colin Andrews <cprandrews.nul> Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 20:37:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:04:15 -0500 Subject: Colin Andrews Responds To Articles Subject Of Legal Action In UK Please read - this article should be immediately corrected. The article below and just sent to me is based upon one that last week was subject of legal action against a British newspaper... The newspaper withdrew the inaccuracies and lies written about me, and also the alleged quotes when in fact they did _not_ talk to me at all. The offending newspaper The Western Daily Press removed the original article from their web site within hours of my challenge and replaced it with a new article about the new feature movie to be made about my life by Renegade Pictures: http://www.renegadepictures.us/main.php?s=103 The article below and sent to me now is written by Stuart Miller of UFO UpDates, and appearing to be a re-write of part of the offensive and untrue UK original. I am not broke as is stated. I own two properties and so this is clearly a lie. The research organization I founded and have run for over twenty years on my own buck, IS broke. There is a difference and an important one when coupled with other inaccurate statements that the original article make, seemingly to form a derogatory picture of my character and status. Many now know that the newspaper received numerous calls supporting my work and their web site was peppered with critical comments by offended and supportive readers that is, before the paper blocked the site from further comment. All this said, I do take my hat off to the editor and the journalist who wrote the piece, for taking corrective steps. See: www.CropCircleInfo.com latest News Button. I am asking that the sender/s of this circulation and Stuart take a moment to correct this attachment and re-send it to those who will have been sent this issue. Thank you. Colin Colin Andrews - Foundations of Life, Inc. 111, Great Hill Road. North Guilford, CT. 06437 USA. Tel: 203-483-0822 ----- From: UFO UpDates - Toronto To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 12:08 PM Subject: UFO UpDate: Aliens Are Sending You A Message Source: Boise Weekly News - Idaho, USA http://www.boiseweekly.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A156069 November 30, 2005 Curious Times By Andreas Ohrt Aliens Are Sending You A Message, And The Message Is This: Time To Get A Real Job If you've ever wanted to instantly become the world's leading crop circle expert, here's your chance. The current champ, Colin Andrews, is broke and trying to auction off his massive 20-plus- year collection of Crop Circle research material at eBay. Andrews, author of the world's first-ever book on the subject, Circular Evidence, has collected over 35,000 photographs, 650 videotapes, and at least 3,000 books and publications. The offer also includes the transfer of all worldwide copyrights on material owned by Andrews. "I am sure this is one of the most profound phenomenon of our time," says the blurb at eBay. "Universal energy interactions may be at work and the interface between two dimensions register spectacular patterns of great meaning and such depth as man can yet imagine." The entire package is up for bids with a starting price of $250,000. Not surprisingly, not a single offer has yet been made.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 Re: UFO Reported Over Shanghai - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 00:43:14 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:05:44 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Reported Over Shanghai - Hebert From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 6:52 AM Subject: UFO UpDate: UFO Reported Over Shanghai >Source: The Shanghai Daily - China >http://tinyurl.com/a3ltm >2005-12-01 >UFO Reported Over Shanghai >Li Xinran >Several people reported seeing a UFO in Shanghai between 4:30pm >and 9pm yesterday. <snip> Sounds like a brief contrail in the western sky at sunset. My daughter took a picture of one just last week. Posted the photo at my new blog:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 Dr. Crain's UFO Claims Raise Questions From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:11:55 -0500 Subject: Dr. Crain's UFO Claims Raise Questions Source: KLAS-TV - Las Vegas, Nevada http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4190378 Dec 4, 2005 Dr. Crain's UFO Claims Raise Questions George Knapp Investigative Reporter UFO stories don't get any wilder than this one. A Las Vegas man has developed a cult-like following around the world by claiming to have worked with a live extraterrestrial at Area 51. The story told by Dan Burisch is a whopper, but can he prove any of it? George Knapp of the Eyewitness News I-Team has the story of Dr. Dan's alien adventure. His name today is Dan Burisch. Before that it was Dan Catselas, and when Eyewitness News first ran into him, it was Dan Crain. "Doctor" Dan Crain, he says. But is he a doctor, and has he really been face to face with an alien in an underground lab? This story has a little bit of everything, including a lot of unanswered questions. When Channel 8 produced a story in 1994 about this volunteer teacher at the Boys and Girls club, he was introduced as Dr. Dan Crain. At the time, Dan Crain, now known as Dan Burisch, was supposedly participating in the most secret program in existence. But the secret is now out. Burisch has a worldwide following - websites a message boards, books, audiotapes and DVDs. He has a publicist and a biographer, a high profile for a secret scientist. Burisch says he worked in an underground lab at S-4 near Area 51, the same place first made public by Bob Lazar. Inside he met an extraterrestrial named Jrod and they became pals. He also met angels in the lab and they spoke in Hebrew. On Frenchman's Mountain, Burisch discovered the first seeds of life on earth. Who believes this stuff? His wife Deborah for one. She signed a sworn statement saying she too works for MJ- 12, the secret government. Family friend Marcia McDowell, another alleged secret agent, supports the story too. It's grown more complex ever since we first heard some of it in 1990. It's more complex now. There are photos of Burisch and his wife in military garb saluting each other. Neither ever served in the military. Intriguingly, they have a sticker on their windshield that allows access to Nellis AFB. Would a real government scientist be allowed to openly dribble out government secrets? We asked former army intelligence Colonel John Alexander. "It's highly improbable," said Col. John Alexander, retired army intelligence. What about his PHD? Burisch says he earned his doctorate in 1990 at Stony Brook University in New York. The school says he was never a student there. Burisch says his records were erased. But at the time he supposedly earned his degree in New York, records show, he had a full time job in Las Vegas as a parole officer. He now says he flew back and forth to the school on weekends. Ridiculous, the university says. He met his wife as a parole officer. She was there on drug charges. She's spent 12 years in the PBX department of the Mirage, but that's just a cover job. We asked MGM Mirage if they know they have a secret agent working for them in a cover job. They do now. Marcia McDowell, another secret operative, who solicited our coverage a few times, is seen in a video as she uncovers a space probe on Frenchman's Mountain and then meticulously dissects it's sophisticated electrical tape and rubber tubing. Someone else who believes Burisch is his mom, Dodie Crane, although she has some doubts too. "If my son is the biggest bull****er in the world, I want to know about it," said Dodie Crain. Dan's mom. Like everyone else in this story, Dodie declined an on camera interview, but told us her son, whom she hasn't seen in 12 years, is telling the truth. She's written her own book about it. For a final opinion on this story, we turned to a man who helped to inspire it and who supposedly was in the secret program with Burisch. "This is the biggest I have ever heard in my life. Anybody who believes this guy should be ashamed of themselves. I never worked in said Bob Lazar. Two other points - that sticker on the windshield from Nellis. The United States Air Force says it's a low level sticker, easy to get, allowing access to the commissary, and that you can get one if you've had a relative in the military, as Deb Burisch has. Also, we talked to UNLV where Dan Burisch really did earn a B.A. in psychology. He's listed in the alumni guide as having that PHD from New York, but UNLV told us the alumni guide doesn't verify someone's post graduate credentials, so just because it says PHD in the guide means little. Dan Burisch is a smart guy and this is an interesting story, which a lot of people seem to believe. We think it is sorely lacking in verifiable evidence. If any surfaces, we'd like to see it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 George Knapp & A Dan Crain/Catselas/Burisch Story From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 02:07:58 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:12:22 -0500 Subject: George Knapp & A Dan Crain/Catselas/Burisch Story Listers, If you haven't already seen it yet, you might want to read George Knapp's piece on Dan Crain/Catselas/Burisch http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4190378 Several amusing things... how Burisch was claiming that the eeeeevvvvvviiiilllll government erased the records of his supposed and claimed education, then we hear how he worked full time in Vegas, then is claiming that he flew back to a school in New York (which never heard of him) on weekends for class. According to the story he supposedly met his current wife when he was a parole officer and she was a druggie in a correctional facility serving 12 years etc etc etc. Apparently Lazar believed that the Burisch story was a load of crap and was quoted as saying: "Anybody who believes this guy should be ashamed of themselves." Remember how one of Hoaglands insider sources gave us the tale about the ET going to land on a Arizona mountain top in December of 2000? It never happened, but people lapped it up hook, line and sinker. They even promoted and defended the story to absolute death. Then when it didn't happen, they wanted to move on to the next incredible story, told by the next incredible story teller. It appears to me that if somebody came forward and claimed they had a CE 3, people would rigoursly investigate the person, the story the background, etc etc. YET when some person comes forward and tells some incredible story about how they are part of a secret government research program and how they are some super dooper scientist on the cutting edge of secret government ET research, these same researchers would instantly believe them (because the person or the story sounds sooooo sincere) never bother to check any facts and when presented with facts that suggest something other then gulliable belief, they rationalize and make excuses, all the while shamelessly promoting/defending the person and their tales. Naturally this is done with the theory that why bother to check any facts, because its much more
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:23:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:17:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:11:29 -0000 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure <snip> >I happen to know quite a lot about Alex Jones. >Ray wrote, >"I don't know who Alex Jones is" >"From what has been posted he sounds to me like another flake." >Hmm, well how very scientific. First things first. FYI. >Alex Jones is a Journalist/Radio/TV/presenter, who has been >doing a sterling job on the Waco murders exposure and was >instrumental in the organising of the rebuilding of the Church >on the site. Calling among other things for Janet Reno to face >the music for the murder of 17 children. >He was also the man who filmed Bohemian Grove, where, it is >claimed, US policy is set. There is evidence to support this >as in everything Alex Jones says >He has the support of Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney also >Congressman Ron Paul and others. >At present he has been looking into 9/11, but more importantly >Patriot Act 1 and the sequel, Patriot Act 2, plus other >end-runs around the American constitution. I don't know if any >of you have actually read the Patriot Act? >If you are an American citizen, you should be concerned... >In summary Alex Jones does excellent research fully supported by >documents interviews etc. >In his own words. "Don't Just take my word for it, check this >information out for yourselves" >On his web sites you can download many free clips of interviews >and documentaries. As well as purchase high quality >documentaries, research all the documents that he has used to >uncover the crime that is being committed on the American people >by the corrupt administration: >www.infowars.com >www.prisonplanet.com Aloha Max, Well, I looked at Alex Jones' websites and I still believe he is a flake. In addition I feel he is a paranoid and extremist conspiracy monger who dwells in the same dirty and ugly basement as people like Harold Ickes, Jeff Rense, and David Irving. Their beliefs and values are totally against mine and I am not going to dignify them with going to the trouble of doing any work on here to illustrate where I feel they are wrong. Listerions are mostly intelligent enough to make their own decisions on such people. To me Alex Jones' views are so paranoid and crazy that they are outside the bounds of
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 UFOs Over Tampico Alto Veracruz Mexico From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 13:12:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:27:01 -0500 Subject: UFOs Over Tampico Alto Veracruz Mexico INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology December 5, 2005 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D UFOs Seen In The Skies Over Tampico Alto December 5, 2005 by Ana Luisa Cid and Alberto Garc=EDa ("Milenio" newspaper) Police officers and reporters from "Diario de Tampico Milenio" were witnesses to the presence of an unidentified flying object in Mexican skies. A light resembling a star was seen in Tampico Alto, Veracruz. Evidence photographed by a team of reporters from "Diario Tampico Milenio", Victor Hugo Perez and Alberto Garcia, who decided to investigate the UFO reports they had received earlier from that area. Alberto Garcia describes the light as standing out as a very large star, and that its brightness forced everyone to see it. Suddenly, to everyone's astonishment, the luminous object moved a few meters and vanished, as though entering a crack in the sky. Also present were elements of the Tampico Alto Police under the command of Cmdr. Agustin Rivas Hernandez and Matias Castillo Altamirano, responsible for Emergency Services in that municipality. Mr. Garcia describes the following with great surprise: "The alleged star remained still. However, upon being observed, what it appeared to be waiting for, it simply moved and vanished, as though it had been erased. It wasn't a shooting star. We also saw some of those and the notable difference is that they appear to come out of nowhere and vanihs. This one was motionless; it suddenly moved and was gone." "This reporter, Victor, two policemen and a third person, agreed upon observing its brightness, "look, that one's shinier than the rest". Suddenly, the "star" inexplicably moved a little. Our jaws dropped, and if it is possible to be even more surprised, we did it, because it suddenly vanished...right after the photograph was taken." "This experience left us in the proper mood to continue our search for the UFOs that the inhabitants of Tampico Alto's rural districts mention so much...in fact, it's quite the adventure." Upon interviewing some of the locals, they agreed that UFO sightings are quite frequent, explaining that the "ships" hover above electric light posts, rock themselves on the wires and even shoot sparks, according to eyewitness accounts. It is important to note that on days prior to the date in question, UFOs had been reported in this area and that the story was also published by "Diario Tampico Milenio" on November 26, 2005. In Alberto Garc=EDa's interesting article, the reporter says that some officials have received accounts from the population. Alfredo Mellado P=F3lito, director of Civil Defense, states that electricity has been interrupted due to the alleged visitors: "They say that the lights go out because they come too close to the electric installations. I don't know if its true, but I can tell you that many people have said this," he noted. Officials explained that they have no intention whatsoever to perform any kind of investigation, at least for the time being, regardless of comments made by fishermen, housewives and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 Close Encounters Of The Alien Kind From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:32:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:32:16 -0500 Subject: Close Encounters Of The Alien Kind Source: The Pueblo Chieftan - Pueblo, Colorado, USA http://www.chieftain.com/life/1133680783/4 Sunday December 04, 2005 Close Encounters Of The Alien Kind If wrestling alligators isn�t weird enough, try visiting the UFO Watchtower. Located three miles from Colorado Gators just north of the hamlet of Hooper, the Watchtower greets arrivals with a series of signs and cutouts featuring bug-eyed, green and silver extraterrestrials, their arms raised in a universal gesture of welcome. The Watchtower draws believers from around the world who search the skies from its 10-foot-high observation deck above a geodesic dome or camp at its on-site campground, hoping to add to the number of UFO sightings (31 at last count) that have supposedly occurred in this area since the tower was constructed in 2000. Strange visions and unexplained events are nothing new for the San Luis Valley, which is held by some to be a spiritually powerful energy center or perhaps even a portal to a parallel universe. As far back as the 1960s, valley residents were reporting discoveries of dead cattle, horses and other livestock, their bodies mysteriously mutilated in attacks that some still attribute to alien invaders. So if the truth is indeed out there, the San Luis Valley�s UFO Watchtower is a good place to start searching for it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 TV Shows Aliens We Fear Might Be Ourselves From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:37:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:37:04 -0500 Subject: TV Shows Aliens We Fear Might Be Ourselves Source: San Francisco Chronicle - USA http://tinyurl.com/apr2l Sunday, December 4, 2005 Page E - 3 TV Shows Us That The Aliens We Fear Might Be Ourselves William S. Kowinski There's something different about this season's new TV shows: the emphasis on fear. Each major network introduced a new series about sinister alien invasions: "Invasion" on ABC, "Surface" on NBC and "Threshold" on CBS (which is in jeopardy of extinction after moving to a new night). They follow Steven Spielberg's version of the very first space alien invasion story, H.G. Wells' "The War of the Worlds" last summer. It was a blockbuster hit. So what's under the surface of these invasions? What are we on the threshold of? The 1950s? That's when the template for alien invasion drama was set, amidst the suppressed hysteria of the early atomic age and the Cold War. Although disguised in genre sensationalism, their correspondences to the sources of paranoia were pretty much one to one. Soviet bombers and missiles might come without warning to destroy from the sky; so do space aliens. But communists also subvert from within, fellow Americans could be fellow travelers and your neighbor might be a spy. So "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" led a subgenre of aliens taking over the minds and bodies of humans. So who are the 21st century aliens? Who, or what, are we so afraid of now? The terrorist is the obvious alien. "There can be no doubt that, even subconsciously, 9/11 is a thematic undercurrent in our show, for sure," said Threshold producer Brannon Braga. But the obvious may not be the whole story. These shows imply other possibilities. With ancient and Biblical antecedents, the fear of nature and natural forces perverted by human actions has been a science fiction theme from "Frankenstein" to "Soylent Green" and "The Day After Tomorrow." In the 1950s, it was expressed as the monster created by nuclear radiation mutations (giant ants, locusts, spiders, etc.) or awakened by atomic explosions (Godzilla.) All three of these shows suggests variations appropriate to our contemporary Zeitgeist. "Invasion" began with an alien-induced hurricane in its first episode, aired while the Katrina catastrophe was unfolding. "Surface" reveals alien life forms living in the sea. Our easily resurrected fear of ferocious animals may combine with stubbornly repressed suspicions of climate change distortions, undoubtedly enlivened by this year's record-breaking hurricane season. When we feel alienated from our own planet, we fear some well- deserved Revenge of the Earth. Even Spielberg's alien machines emerged from the ground instead of falling from the sky as in the original Wells. In "Threshold," the invasion is also a subversion. Its unseen aliens rearrange the DNA of human victims by means of a "signal" manifested as sound. Genetics is our generation's Dr. Frankenstein science, and the mating of the biological and the electronic -- viruses and computer viruses -- demonstrates another aspect of our paranoia: it is often about what we don't quite understand. These aliens apparently attempt to transform us into versions of them, proposing a kind of Close Encounter of the Fourth Kind: We have met the alien, and he is us. We probably suspect that endangered species, for instance, might very well see us that way. But more than the subjects, the style of these new shows may reveal what we find so fearful. They maintain many of the conventions of the genre, including near-naked babes in jeopardy. But in most alien invasion films, plumbing the mysterious nature of the aliens took up a third of the story at most; the rest was the action of defeating them. In these, investigation is itself at the center of the action. The extended mystery of these shows suggests we don't really know what we are afraid of. Is it the wrath of nature, or the revelation that confidence in our government's ability to aid us in disaster is a fantasy? Is it terrorism, or the war on terror? Global warming, or a global pandemic? The fear of illness, or the fear of being unable to afford needed care? Rising energy prices, a wobbly economy, an administration in crisis and mountains of national and personal debt -- -there's plenty to be anxious about. The world is getting smaller, and Americans are becoming more isolated and perhaps more xenophobic. Within the nation, the specter of a religious litmus test for a Supreme Court nominee, and the revival of a debate over teaching evolution exactly 80 years after the Scopes trial emphasize long-standing and perhaps intractable conflicts in worldviews. We seem increasingly divided by income, lifestyle and outlook. Who we think the aliens are may depend on who we think we are. Paranoia in the Cold War seemed partly caused by our lack of control over sudden and complete destruction. Today it might be that we need to understand the complexities of whatever threatens us before we know what to do. One thing seems fairly certain about these new alien invasion shows: they won't include close encounters with any cuddly E.T.s Among their forbearers were two popular mini-series on cable, "Taken" and "The 4400" (now a series), which strung out the mystery of the aliens' nature but finally revealed them to be benign, if not beneficent. That's not likely to happen with these three. What we see as we huddle around our TV sets reflects our anxieties and our deep need to define them. But the fear is out there.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 5 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:55:16 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:40:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:36:15 -0500 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:11:29 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure ><snip> >Since Alex doesn't really focus on UFOs or abductions, I would >not personally take what he says as gospel. On his main topics, >he's pretty close to that standard, though. >** As a sidelight, over the past year, I've noticed that UFO and >abduction discussions are happening with increasing >frequency on >the full lineup of Patriot broadcasts. Prior to that, one would >virtually never hear UFO matters spoken about. >Eleanor White As usual Eleanor White is right on target. I listen to radio all day long. I don't know why because I'm a television kid. For some strange reason in the past 10 years I work with or know far too many top radio folks. One thing I've noticed is the public has caught many a live host off guard with the 'What's up with the UFOs?' question. The response however is less than cordial from the radio guys. The public calling is either brushed off or called a 'nut'. That hostility, bigotry and ridicule brings others not to call in even when they have vital information pro or con. I can't tell you how many times Art Bell has been insulted by other hosts on the same affiliate station! I don't mean in a friendly way either. George Noory used to get a rib until he moved into Los Angeles and people got nicer. Guess George put the fear of kicked butt into them. The press and the media folks aren't going to risk their livings tackling this issue because the general media people aren't scientists, historians nor compassionate enough to look into something like this. They'll risk bullets for those ratings and brave vitriolic celebrities and their bodyguards but no UFOs. It's a matter of plain, simple fear of being listed as mentally unstable which in this society is a sentence worse than death. It can unseat a President as well as have your kids taken from you in a heartbeat. Recently I was watching one of the popular televangelists tackle this issue of being labled unstable. He asked his audience of tens of thousands how many of them had experienced angels and God's power but were afraid to tell of it because of a fear of being hauled away. See? A person can't even express their faith nowadays without the threat of a cell or some other horror. Used to be in this country expressing your beliefs got you the stock or some other punishment from old King George. Things ain't changed much.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 6 Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:10:00 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:32:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? - Ledger >From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:58:33 -0000 >Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:14:03 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 03:08:59 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:53:04 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: Has Anyone Else Seen This Video? >>>I do not know how many downloads it will allow so I suppose its >>>first come first served. >>>You've got a file called "ufo video - bulgaria - >>>incredible!.mpg" (9802 KB) from max.burns.nul >>>waiting for download. >><snip> >>Too big for my out-in-the-country, dialup-fed system. >Yes I can't say I miss my old 9.6kb dial up, it uses to kill me >waiting for just a web page to load. Never mind the high spec >windows 3.1 with a 33mhz cpu. >I know someone in the UK, who suffered from the same problem as >you they lived in a village. What happens in the UK is that the >broadband supplier in the area has a web site and if enough >people in the post code (Zip Code Area) area sign the list to >say if you put it in the area will may have it this is not >legally binding. >Apparently everyone in the area signed the list and the >supplier put the broadband in. I am not an expert but I am >pretty certain in the UK its not much more than someone flipping >a switch or opening the gate. >You should write to your congressman no one should have to >suffer dial up its inhumane. Hi Max, Unfortunately, stringing broad band into our area would be like stringing Cable from Dover to Calais, France to some little fishing village with 6 houses in it. Actually it's further than that to the nearest broadband cable outlet. It's not going to happen. What's in the works is information clouds taken to another level. See the latest innovation in New Orleans. It's a problem here, in Canada, where the population desity is low and the area is huge. I usually ignore large video files because they take forever to download.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 6 Supreme Court To Review Insanity Defense From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:43:07 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:43:07 -0500 Subject: Supreme Court To Review Insanity Defense Source: Breitbart.co, Los Angeles, California, USA http://tinyurl.com/9rrvn Dec 05 2005 Supreme Court To Review Insanity Defense By Gina Holland Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court agreed Monday to consider whether a teen convicted of killing an Arizona police officer had a fair chance to argue that he was insane, renewing debate about insanity defenses. Justices over the past decade have repeatedly declined to consider cases involving insanity claims. In a surprise, the court said it would take up the case of Eric Michael Clark, who has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. He was a 17-year-old high school student when he shot Officer Jeff Moritz during a traffic stop in Flagstaff, Ariz., on June 21, 2000. There was evidence that Clark believed his town had been taken over by aliens and that he was being held captive and tortured before the killing. His lawyer, David Goldberg, told justices that the state insanity law is unconstitutional because it restricts what evidence can be introduced at trial. "This court has never directly addressed this issue of national importance," Goldberg said. Arizona changed its laws after John Hinckley's acquittal by reason of insanity in the March 1981 shooting of President Reagan and three others outside a Washington hotel. Arizona assistant attorney general Michael O'Toole said in a filing that "even if the states are required to provide an insanity defense to criminal defendants, this court's prior decisions make clear that no one particular test is required." In 1994, the court let stand Montana's abolition of insanity as an affirmative defense for criminal defendants. But then three years ago justices refused to review a Nevada Supreme Court decision that defendants have a right to use insanity defenses. At issue in the Arizona case is the use of evidence in contesting whether a defendant was so mentally ill that he or she did not know the crime was wrong. Clark was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison in the officer's death. Arguments in his case will be held next spring.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 6 Court To Hear 'Alien' Insanity Case From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:51:29 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 09:37:29 -0500 Subject: Court To Hear 'Alien' Insanity Case U.S. Supreme Court To Hear 'Alien' Insanity Defense Case http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/05/D8EA7SSO0.html Brother! Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the court system. This story is about a then 17 year-old boy who shot and killed a police officer during a routine traffic stop. The boy was found to have been suffering from paranoid schizophrenia the defense claims and wasn't allowed to admit that data into the court system. His delusions consisted of aliens trying to take over the Earth. This is a major, major case before the court as it's often shied away from insanity defense. Reason being there's a caveate associated with claiming one person's viewpoints as insane and invalidating one's own. The late legendary comedian Flip Wilson used to have a stage routine where he'd excuse his transgressions as "The Devil made me do it!". Quite hilarious, but not admissable in the court system or everyone would claim it. How do you prove it? Almost 2 billion people believe in some being called Satan or Shay-Tan or whatever but they won't admit it in court or they'd be hauled off to a looney-bin. The fact his victim was an officer of the law doesn't help in any way shape or form. You can see where this is going. Better batten down the hatches as this is just more fuel for the fire to one day officially blanket everyone associated with the subject matter as mentally ill requiring some form of mandatory testing and/or treatment. We're soon looking at a world where no matter what you believe, pro or con, will land you under a control mechanism of the state like in Red China. It wouldn't surprise me one iota if one day they start rounding up Christians again like they did in ancient Rome. Rub someone in power the wrong way and it's off to Never-Never- Land. It's happened far too much in the past two centuries, this one seems to be getting off to a great start.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 6 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 16:50:26 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 10:22:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:54:18 -0800 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:17:08 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>>I was wondering if Art Bell would chime in on former Canadian >>>Defense Minister Hellyer's campaign to disclose UFO/ET data, and >>>Art did in a big way. >Who is Hellyer? A former Canadian Defence Minister who has no >classified information regarding UFOs from his time in office >but says that an unnamed general told him that the Corso book >was true. So you have a second hand story with no verification >and no evidence. Now he wants the Canadian government to examine >the UFO phenomena. I am not Ramtha but I predict that will go >absolutely nowhere. Remember how far Salla's buddy Stephen Greer >( a proven liar) got with the US Congress. They are not the >leading edge of ufology but they are the hemorrhoid at the other >end. Both their approaches are so flawed that no one in a >serious position will entertain them. Paul Hellyer sounds like the Canadian equivalent of our own Admiral of the Fleet Lord Hill-Norton. In a very high position whilst Chief of the Defence Staff (and thus someone who ought to be in a position to know if there was indeed a high level cover- up), then, when retired, goes a bit dotty over UFOs and accuses his own government , and others, of the same cover-up. Hill-Norton was also a believer in MJ-12.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 6 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:20:00 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:43:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 23:23:35 -0800 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:11:29 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure ><snip> >>I happen to know quite a lot about Alex Jones. >>Ray wrote, >>"I don't know who Alex Jones is" >>"From what has been posted he sounds to me like another flake." >>Hmm, well how very scientific. First things first. FYI. >>Alex Jones is a Journalist/Radio/TV/presenter, who has been >>doing a sterling job on the Waco murders exposure and was >>instrumental in the organising of the rebuilding of the Church >>on the site. Calling among other things for Janet Reno to face >>the music for the murder of 17 children. Josh, EBK, Listers >Aloha Max, >Well, I looked at Alex Jones' websites and I still believe he is >a flake. In addition I feel he is a paranoid and extremist >conspiracy monger who dwells in the same dirty and ugly basement >as people like Harold Ickes, Jeff Rense, and David Irving. I am sure opinions differ, pretty much in the same way opinions differ about. Have you ever considered the possibility that he is saying there is a conspiracy, because he is right and has rumbled it? Hey guy, I'm a Brit, and instead of telling what my feeling is. I have taken the time to check out the claims. Josh, In my humble opinion you are out of order. >I feel he is a paranoid and extremist Can you tell me exactly what medical qualifications you have to be able to make such a comment about a man you have never met? On top of that, just because his opinion is different from yours does not give you the right to label a man extremist. Considering that you have not examined his evidence to even come close to making a correct determination. To my knowledge paranoid people normally cant exactly produce the evidence to back up there claims? He can. You can say that you disagree with his interpretation of the evidence that he has collected. Maybe its too late for you, the media brain washing machine has convinced you that all is well, go back to sleep America. The government would not lie to you. Here watch all the repeats of Survivor. Some times a patriots greatest act is to question the actions of its Governments. All I am saying is that he has the right to express his views and produce his evidence, without being automatically branded extremist. Josh I hope you are right, but something is not right across the pond. I can detail privately if you wish just some of the lowlights of the patriot act and how if will effect all Americans if you wish. If you knew what was in it you would be out in the street with the rest of the American patriots. I will finish with this quote. Abraham Lincoln said, "If you offer the people security, you can take
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 6 Re: STS-114 'Anomaly' - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:00:58 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:46:50 -0500 Subject: Re: STS-114 'Anomaly' - Maccabee >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: UFOUpdates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:23:27 -0600 >Subject: STS-114 'Anomaly' >I've written an article about an STS-114 video showing an >object that has been considered anomalous because it reverses >course in the middle of the video in a way that cannot be >attributed to a thruster firing: >http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/STS-48/STS-114/STS-114.pdf >As I suspected, there's enough atmosphere at the altitude the >shuttle was flying to explain the object's motion if it is >assumed that it was just close enough to the camera to be in >focus. The object originally was moving "against the wind" and >could have been a small ice particle blown back in the opposite >direction - moving with the wind. The object would have had to >be smaller than the camera's resolution, but not unreasonably so >considering it was illuminated by sunlight and the camera was >set for low light levels. >I generally don't spend much time writing about things that I >think can be discounted as true anomalies. Writing is hard work >and I find it hard to get motivated enough to write about >boring old "prosaic" explanations. But in this case, I thought >it was interesting how velocities and accelerations in 3-D can >be determined from a 2-D video, given an assumed distance from >the camera. I also think I collected some information here that >could be relevant to other cases. (For instance, I was really >surprised that some cameras can detect 20-micron particles at 20 >meters from the camera). Imaging of these small particles sounds somewhat like the situation with what I have called "flash orbs" which are images created when light from a flash bounces off tiny particles that are well within the near hyperfocal distance of the camera lens (within a few inches for typical cameras). In outer space there is no flash, but there is the sun, which illuminates particles that are silhouetted against a background such as the universe (very black) or the earth (nominally bright where illuminated by sunlight). Particles illuminated by the sun and imaged by powerful camera lenses set to infinity focus may well create flash-orb type images (which contain diffraction
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 6 Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:50:07 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:48:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - Hatch >From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 15:23:34 -0000 >Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface >>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:21:53 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface <snip> >Hello Paul, >Radar Reveals Ice Deep Below Martian Surface >15:00 30 November 2005 >NewScientist.com news service >Maggie McKee ><snip> >>I'm curious now; New Scientist and The Sun are quoting two >>MARSIS scientists, that there may be liquid water in the bottom >>of that subsurface crater, one in the UK and one in the US >>(JPL). William Johnson (re New Scientist) is the one at JPL, >>although Jeffrey Plaut (also with MARSIS at JPL), and Giovanni >>Picardi (MARSIS, in Italy) have been quoted as saying that no >>evidence for liquid water had been found yet (ESA press release >>and BBC News). So are both "liquid water" stories just >>misquotes, or are there just divided opinions within MARSIS? >I think that the answer is that liquid water is just one possible cause of the readings, and that the readings alone don't constitute evidence of liquid water per se. It may be the most likely cause of the readings, but science is (understandably) cautious when it comes to speculation in public. >Congratulations on your blog at: >www.themeridianijournal.blogspot.com >It is developing nicely, and so far appears to leave out >the ridiculous claims evident at sites like: >www.marsanomalyresearch.com for instance. Hello Joe, Paul: This has me wondering also. Can radar like this really distinguish between the liquid and solid (ice) phases of water or not? It has to look thru layers of sand, gravel and/or rock after all. Malin of Malin SSS reluctantly admitted evidence of liquid water seeping out the sides of some steep cliff or scarp on Mars, but that was visual evidence taken from camera images, not radar. I wouldn't be at all surprised if liquid water were eventually proved at some depth beneath the surface where conditions are right. The next big question for me is whether there is/was enough water, for long enough, for some sort of primitive live to emerge. I suspect fewer experts claim that is impossible now, than would have said so 10 or 20 years ago. All the more so for simple liquid water.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 6 New California Map & Statistics Web Page From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:54:24 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:52:03 -0500 Subject: New California Map & Statistics Web Page Hello all: Back to map-making here. It will take a long while, but I plan to build web pages for individual US states, much like I do for some countries. Here's the first one: California. http://www.larryhatch.net/CALIF.html I live here, and CA has the highest raw sightings counts of all states: Unlike other pages with just a map or some graph with a little text, the new CALIF page has three displays with notes for each. Hopefully I can do the same for other states, individually or in twos and threes until I cover the USA. This post is to jump-start the page while waiting for the search engines to find it. If you see any errors, typos etc., please email me!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 6 Re: George Knapp & A Dan Crain/Catselas/Burisch From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 06:55:51 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:58:43 -0500 Subject: Re: George Knapp & A Dan Crain/Catselas/Burisch >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 02:07:58 EST >Subject: George Knapp & A Dan Crain/Catselas/Burisch Story >If you haven't already seen it yet, you might want to read >George Knapp's piece on Dan Crain/Catselas/Burisch >http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4190378 >Several amusing things... how Burisch was claiming that the >eeeeevvvvvviiiilllll government erased the records of his >supposed and claimed education, then we hear how he worked full >time in Vegas, then is claiming that he flew back to a school in >New York (which never heard of him) on weekends for class. >According to the story he supposedly met his current wife when >he was a parole officer and she was a druggie in a correctional >facility serving 12 years etc etc etc. Apparently Lazar believed >that the Burisch story was a load of crap and was quoted as >saying: "Anybody who believes this guy should be ashamed of >themselves." >Remember how one of Hoaglands insider sources gave us the tale >about the ET going to land on a Arizona mountain top in December >of 2000? It never happened, but people lapped it up hook, line >and sinker. They even promoted and defended the story to >absolute death. Then when it didn't happen, they wanted to move >on to the next incredible story, told by the next incredible >story teller. >It appears to me that if somebody came forward and claimed they >had a CE 3, people would rigoursly investigate the person, the >story the background, etc etc. YET when some person comes >forward and tells some incredible story about how they are part >of a secret government research program and how they are some >super dooper scientist on the cutting edge of secret government >ET research, these same researchers would instantly believe them >(because the person or the story sounds sooooo sincere) never >bother to check any facts and when presented with facts that >suggest something other then gulliable belief, they rationalize >and make excuses, all the while shamelessly promoting/defending >the person and their tales. Naturally this is done with the >theory that why bother to check any facts, because its much more >important to vomit the story all over the air waves.... Ah, yes. The infamous Arizona landing. Whoc ould forget that fiasco any time soon? More on Burisch: http://www.ufowatchdog.com/burischdirtbag.html http://www.ufowatchdog.com/jrod.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:02:42 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 07:53:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 03:54:29 -1000 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:30:32 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:09:04 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:01 EST >>>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique ><snip> >>>Much of this is supposition on your part. Dean is merely >>>describing the events that occurred where a senior officer gave >>>him a classified document that Dean's security clearance did not >>>entitle him to view. This was certainly a breach of security >>>procedures as you outline but you jump to many conclusions in >>>your view that this could not have happened, and a court martial >>>would have occurred. I can assume that these kinds of security >>>violations are fairly common in the military world where senior >>>officers can take more junior personnel into their confidence >>>despite the latter not having the right clearance. Sure, a >>>security violation that could technically land someone in a >>>court martial but for someone like Dean who had NATO Cosmic >>>clearance and reading the Assessment in the highly secure SHOC >>>room, I think the Colonel knew that Dean could keep confidence >>>which he did. Dean didn't come out publicly until some time >>>around 1991. That's almost 30 years after the event. >>>As to my thinking being flawed, I am merely narrating Dean's >>>version of events and giving an explanation for how and why his >>>story is plausible. I think you are ignoring human nature and >>>the system of informal paybacks that occur all the time in the >>>military, academic and corporate worlds. As far as I can tell, >>>humans still call the shots in such institutions and make >>>judgements about how to observe security procedures. ><snip> >>Michael, here I would have to agree with you. I observed certain >>violations of security when I was in Security Service myself, >>but have heard many stories of security-type violations even in >>the Aerospace industry. As a matter of fact, I just heard one >>last night told to me by an ex-Lockheed worker. >>The whole Roswell story coming out as it did from military >>officers is a breech of security and I don't remember any of >>them being prosecuted. Yes, there are security violations all the time, some of them minor and some of them not. Some people have been court-maritaled for the violations and some haven't. However, the security in the corporate world is different from that in the military. I have seen how lax it can be in the private world, so, suggesting Lockheed worker was violating security with his latest tale tells us nothing about what happens inside the military. It is two different things and two different worlds. >Thanks Bill for the examples. I checked my notes after a >conversation with Bob Dean, here's what I wrote concerning the >security procedures when he read the Assessment: >"Dean says that while he didn't have Ultra clearance, something >that the Colonel and other officers possessed, he never had a >problem in signing out the document out. When I asked how that >could be given the security procedures that typically occur with >UFO topics, Dean says that security procedures in SHOC were >pretty relaxed for senior NCOs who were responsible for the >efficient running of the war room. He says that as a senior NCO >who was responsible for the duty rosters, he never got into >trouble for signing out the Assessment from the vault for his >private reading while in SHOC." (Personal Notes, Sept 16, 2005). >So I think Dean's story is entirely plausible and that Kevin >Randle's objection is an unrealistically rigid assessment of >security procedures in military operations of which he has no >direct experience. Dean served in SHOC, Randle hasn't. Once again you've missed the point and I wonder if it hasn't been on purpose. I have suggested that Dean's tale of seeing The Assessment is a violation of security regulations. You have agreed with that. I have said that the treatment of this "highly classified" document was somewhat cavalier, which it was. Does that mean the compromise didn't happen? Not in and of itself. The real problems are much more complex and include the fact that the supposed "Ultra" classification wasn't used at the time and for what Dean said it was, the title sheet Dean supplied to prove The Assessment existed has been shown to be a forgery, and lack of any corroboration for the existence of The Assessment are a very real problems. You addressed none of them, except to say that it wasn't surprising there was no independent corroboration. So, my objections to Dean's story are not singular, nor are the based on the way security was violated here, but on something much more real. These are objections that have been ignored in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:51:34 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 07:56:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:09:04 -1000 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:01 EST >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 05:13:29 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:28:28 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>>Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:49:56 -1000 >>>>>Subject: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >>>Dean did not claim he had a "need to know", only that the >>>Assessment had Ultra security compartmentalization in addition >>>to the Cosmic clearance that all who worked in SHOC had. >>>According to Dean, only officers had the Ultra clearance and >>>Dean did not. Yet Dean was in charge of the Duty Roster for the >>>officers and was highly regarded by them, in a collegial >>>environment. Clearly, Dean was in a position to give favors in >>>terms of plum times to officers, and this was implicitly >>>understood by them. While I understand Kevin Randle's point that >>>the Colonel's giving the Ultra classified Assessment is a >>>security violation, I think it can be inferred he was doing a >>>favor to a respected NCO who worked in the highly secure SHOC >>>war room. It's natural to assume that in the collegial >>>environment of SHOC, such favors happened and would be returned. >>>I think your and Kevin's hard-line position that this would not >>>occur overlooks what appears to have been a very collegial >>>environment and the fraternization that occurs between senior >>>NCOs and officers. While Dean has not offered hard evidence, his >>>prestigious service record and laying his reputation on the line >>>in coming forward warrant serious consideration of his >>>testimony. Combined with Dean's clear sincerity, consistency, >>>detailed knowledge, and physical placement in SHOC, I conclude >>>Robert Dean is credible and his testimony worth accepting. >>There are so many "facts and "conclusions" that are wrong here >>that I don't really know where to begin. You're suggesting some >>sort of system in which the officers reward Dean for "plum" >>times in which they perform their duties. This is just wrong on >>so many levels and smacks of what might be acceptable in the >>corporate or academic worlds but that will see officers and NCOs >>court martialed in a military one, especially since it >>compromised a highly classified document. >>You admit that Dean had no "need to know" yet suggest this was >>violated as payback for the "plum" times. This suggests the flaw >>in your thinking and once again leads to compromise of the >>classified material. If true, this, in and of itself would lead >>to the investigation and court martial of the individuals >>involved. >Much of this is supposition on your part. Dean is merely >describing the events that occurred where a senior officer gave >him a classified document that Dean's security clearance did not >entitle him to view. This was certainly a breach of security >procedures as you outline but you jump to many conclusions in >your view that this could not have happened, and a court martial >would have occurred. I can assume that these kinds of security >violations are fairly common in the military world where senior >officers can take more junior personnel into their confidence >despite the latter not having the right clearance. Actually that assumption is false and almost every classified briefing begins with the statement that the information is not to be shared with those no cleared to hear it. So, these sorts of security violations are not common and are, in fact, in clear violation of the regulations. >Sure, a >security violation that could technically land someone in a >court martial but for someone like Dean who had NATO Cosmic >clearance and reading the Assessment in the highly secure SHOC >room, I think the Colonel knew that Dean could keep confidence >which he did. Dean didn't come out publicly until some time >around 1991. That's almost 30 years after the event. Except that the colonel was wrong because Dean didn't keep the confidence but went public with it. >As to my thinking being flawed, I am merely narrating Dean's >version of events and giving an explanation for how and why his >story is plausible. I think you are ignoring human nature and >the system of informal paybacks that occur all the time in the >military, academic and corporate worlds. As far as I can tell, >humans still call the shots in such institutions and make >judgements about how to observe security procedures. I'm suggesting that his story isn't all that plausible, but, if it was the only problem with it, then that wouldn't render it unbelievable. I certainly am not ignoring human nature but am suggesting that what happens in the academic and corporate worlds is often significantly different than what happens in the military world, given the nature of the military environment. So, I'm suggesting you don't understand the military world. However, as I say, I'm not saying that Dean's tale is impossible based on the implausible story of how he saw The Assessment, but that it is seriously flawed and that it fails without other, independent corroboration, which has not been offered. >>But the real problem here is that this does not, nor did your >>response, address the key points which is that no one seems to >>be able to verify the existence of The Assessment and that the >>cover page offered by Dean as evidence has been discredited. >>(No, I won't go over all of that but suggest that those who are >>interested look at www.KevinRandle.blogspot.com for the >>information). >>This is the key to understanding, and if I might presume on >>Stan's behalf, one of the reasons for rejecting Dean's tale. >>Yes, Dean is a seeming sincere man who has a detailed knowledge >>of the workings of NATO but this does not prove his tale to be >>based in reality. We have no evidence, beyond Dean, that "The >>Assessment" ever existed, his tale violates many rules and >>regulations, and those who would have had access have >>universally denied "The Assessment" ever existed. >>I simply do not understand how you can suggest that we take this >>story seriously. Investigation demands some sort of >>corroboration and we have none. Until and unless there is some >>confirming evidence, this story doesn't even belong in the gray >>basket. It belongs in the waste basket. >><snip> >Yes, no one has been able to prove the existence of the >Assessment. That should not be surprising since Dean alleges it >had Cosmic Ultra classification where its existence was a secret >and anyone disclosing its existence can be prosecuted. So anyone who disclosed the existence of The Assessment can be prosecuted, and that means that we can get no independent corroboration for it. However, Dean did disclose it and he was not prosecuted for that. Have we just gone around in a circle? Where is the logic in this? Dean can disclose it without being prosecuted but others can't simply verify they saw the document without being prosecuted. >So the >Assessment, if we believe Dean's story, is part of Cosmic >Watergate that has successfully kept numerous documents out of >the public realm for decades. I think we need to take Dean's >story seriously since he had a highly distinguished military >service, served in the highly secure military facility he >describes, and has no reason to come out with a fabricated story >to damage his reputation. That's where you fail to recognize the >importance of intent in this case of Dean and other >whistleblowers. If you are arguing Dean fabricated his story of >the Assessment, you need to show clear intent as to why he did >this since for career servicemen such as Dean and Corso they >have much to lose in terms of their hard earned reputations. As >for putting Dean's story in the waste basket, that's typical of >the treatment given to many whistleblowers who bravely come >forward only to have unreasonable demands placed on them to >prove their stories. But you see, when we begin to travel into these worlds of highly classified and now semi-leaked documents, we enter a world where there can be some independent corroboration. Jesse Marcel came out with his story of picking up pieces of a flying saucer. If it was stand alone, then it would be highly suspicious. But researchers, including Stan Friedman were able to find others who mentioned that the story was true. Other people in a position to know the truth talked to us. Edwin Easley, the provost marshal at the base at Roswell confirmed the unusual events. Patrick Saunders, the adjutant, did the same. But with Dean, no one else who was in a position to know has come out to say that yes, The Assessment did exist. To this point they have universally denied that it did. Someone, somewhere, other than Dean, should have provided a hint about it. No one has. And, really, I'm not required to offer clear intent for the fabrication of such a story. You, on the other hand, are required to offer some proof, other than the "whistleblower" sounds sincere. I'm confused as to why you will accept these implausible stories without any corroboration and accept the idea that their records have been altered or erased, when there is much better evidence that these people simply are not telling the truth. Rather than deal with this you simply suggest they are red herrings and forget about it. Intent can encompass many things. Dean has been able to travel the world free, is compensated for his tales, and enjoys a certain spotlight, all powerful incentives. Maybe his intent was simply to inject himself into the UFO community. ><snip> >>>As for the Canadian Senate, I think you miss the point. When >>>someone with Hellyer's credentials comes forward to support >>>Corso's claims, people have great difficulty in ignoring what >>>Hellyer says. The fact that Hellyer confirmed Corso's claims >>>through his own network of military and political contacts, is >>>something that makes others think anew about Corso's testimony >>>and its implications. I believe that what we are witnessing is >>>the start of a political process whereby Canada may be the >>>world's first legislative body that discusses the policy >>>implications of the weaponization of Space in relation to the >>>extraterrestrial hypothesis. That is a positive development and >>>I hope you lend your support to it based on your Cosmic >>>Watergate thesis, rather than doggedly stick to your position >>>that Corso's testimony is invalid. You are wrong about Corso and >>>it's time you reconsider your position. >>Unless there have been new developments, my understanding was >>that Hellyer said that he had spoken with an unidentified Air >>Force general who said that Corso's story was accurate. This is >>not the same as Hellyer confirming Corso's claims through a >>network of military and political contacts. >I had a private conversation with Paul Hellyer in early November >and asked if he could give more details about the USAF General >and anyone else he spoke to in order to confirm Corso's >testimony. He couldn't give me more information about the >General in order to maintain confidentiality, but mentioned >other public officials, some senior, that confirmed Corso's >story. He wouldn't give me more information about them, but >essentially Hellyer was saying that he confirmed Corso's story >by speaking with a number of officials including the retired >General. So Hellyer did confirm Corso's claims through a network >of military and political contacts. So, let me see if I understand: the general is unidentified, but he said Corso was telling the truth. That doesn't matter because Hellyer said that there were other senior people who also confirmed Corso's story, but we aren't told who they are either. So Hellyer confirmed Corso's story through a network of unidentified military and political contacts. Why doesn't that persuade me? >>It can also mean that this unidentified general knew that the >>story of the crashed saucer was true, that Corso had written >>about the crashed saucer, so the overall broad strokes were true >>but not necessarily the finer details such as Corso's >>implausible tale of seeing the body of an alien in a wooden >>shipping box at Ft. Riley, Kansas. >>I'm very much afraid that we are not wrong about Corso. He >>provided nothing to confirm his tale and showed his true colors >>with his actions with the Foreword of his book, the >>embellishment of his credentials and the injection of himself >>into several UFO stories. >>And contrary to your claims, these are not minor >>inconsistencies, but real problems that should raise some red >>flags. Adequate explanation has not been offered. >The only thing red in the argument you are making are the red >herrings that you use in your attempt to discredit Corso. These >alleged embellishments and insertions of himself into UFO >stories are distractions from Corso's central claims. He was the >head of the Foreign Technology Desk at Army Research and >Development and participated in a covert program authorized by >Lt General Arther Trudea to seed civilian industries with >extraterrestrial technologies. Those are the central claims made >by Corso and are supported by Corso's military records >documenting his position where he could have played such a role. Excuse me, but these are not alleged embellishments. Corso said that he was a colonel and he was not. He said he commanded the Whites Sands Missile Range when he did not. He said that he was a member of MJ-12 when he was not. He made many such claims that were untrue. Period. There are documents about his involvement with Senator Thurmond which suggest that Corso was a loose cannon and given to flights of fantasy. These documents exist and can be found. Hellyer's claims are just that, claims and do nothing to validate Corso. >Since you support the existence of a Cosmic Watergate, it's only >logical to assume that the military would covertly implement >such a program in order to upgrade the technological base of the >civilian sector. I assume you and Stan would agree that would be >both feasible and logical given the technological superiority of >visiting ETs and the secrecy that was adopted as a national >security policy. What better branch of the military than the >Foreign Technology Desk at Army R & D to play such a role since >they already had an extensive network of technology development >programs with various corporations and could simply say that the >ET technology was 'foreign technology'? It's only logical to >assume that such a covert program existed, and that someone like >Lt General Arther Trudea as head of Army R & D would have played >a key role. Since Corso served for some time as Trudeau's >military aide, then it is logical to assume that he was given >that covert assignment by Trudeau when he was assigned to the >FTD. >I hope that reseachers finally focus on Corso's central claims >rather than the red herrings you offer to diminish the >importance of his testimony. I've focused on Corso's claims and find them without merit. If we could verify something of importance, that would be one thing, but to date, that hasn't happened. And the same can be said about Cliff Stone, whose embellishments are well know, to Bob Lazar whose record as it has been found suggests something other than a scholar and research scientist, to Bob Dean who struck me as a very nice man but whose tale has many holes in it, and Philip Corso who might not have known the truth if it bit him on the butt. I have also noticed that you cease communication when there have been questions asked that you don't want answered. Stone has offered three different versions of his involvement in the Kecksburg case, but you haven't told me which is true. He offers nothing that wasn't already known, other than his story of 57 alien varieties, and he continues to dig his hole deeper. I just wonder when you'll understand that the questions are legitimate and not unreasonable. All I ask for is some evidence
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Kecksburg Marks 40th Anniversary From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:42:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:42:16 -0500 Subject: Kecksburg Marks 40th Anniversary Source: The Tribune-Review - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA http://tinyurl.com/a6r64 Tuesday, December 6, 2005 Kecksburg To Mark 40Th Anniversary Of Purported UFO Crash By Sam Kusic Tribune-Review Tuesday, December 6, 2005 On Dec. 9, 1965, a fireball was reported streaking over four states, across the Pittsburgh area and toward Greensburg. Local sightings touched off calls to police, who assumed they should be looking for an airplane on fire or a downed aircraft. Around dinner time, residents of Kecksburg, a village in Mt. Pleasant Township, began reporting that something had fallen into a wooded area just outside the town. Police responded. So did the fire department. And along with them came the curious onlookers. Some people claim to have walked into the woods and seen a metallic object half-buried in the ground. They described it as acorn-shaped, big enough for a man to stand in, with some strange markings - like hieroglyphics - on it. And within a few hours of the crash, the military showed up. Soldiers cordoned off the area, and some people reported being ordered to leave at gunpoint. Also responding were newspaper, radio and television reporters, who heard police radio transmissions and received calls from people who had seen the fireball. But by that point the woods had been declared off-limits to all. In the wee hours of the morning, a military flatbed tractor- trailer was supposedly seen hauling some tarp-covered object out of the woods and speeding off into the night. State police and the government later said they found nothing in the woods, insisting that people had seen a meteor that likely burned up before impact. Kecksburg's fire department hopes to cash in on the anniversary of perhaps the biggest story to ever to hit the small village in Mt. Pleasant Township. In cooperation with Stan Gordon, a Greensburg UFO and Bigfoot researcher, the community is set to recognize the purported UFO crash on Dec. 9, 1965, with a daylong event Saturday, complete with witnesses, speakers and even a refurbished replica of the object, a prop that was used when the television show "Unsolved Mysteries" produced a segment about the incident. Because the rural department played a role that night four decades ago and because it is struggling financially, officials are hoping that a crowd with an interest in reports of flying saucers and aliens shows up with some cash to burn. Admission is free, but there will be food, T-shirts, ball caps and DVDs for sale. "We're just an old, country-style fire department. We've got something we can hold onto, and we're going to capitalize on it," said Rich Comp, co-chairman of the department's newly formed UFO and festival committee. "One of these days we're going to need a new truck." Gordon, who maintains that he is convinced that something crashed 40 years ago, says interest is still high and people still speculate about what really happened in the woods of Kecksburg that night. "Publicly, there seems to be a lot of support to find out what happened in 1965," he said. He's lined up a list of speakers, all of whom either were in Kecksburg that night or are taking part in his ongoing investigation. Among them are Leslie Kean, a journalist and the investigations director for The Coalition for Freedom of Information. According to the organization's Web site, its purpose is "achieving scientific, congressional and media credibility for the study of unexplained aerial phenomena while working for the release of official information and physical evidence." Kean is the plaintiff in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed against NASA that seeks records related to the incident. The Harvard-educated attorney handling the case, Lee E. Helfrich, of the Washington, D.C., firm Lobel, Novins & Lamont, is also expected to attend. She will talk about the status of the lawsuit. Larry Landsman, special projects director for the Sci Fi Channel, is another guest speaker. His station produced two documentaries on the Kecksburg incident and put together The Coalition for Freedom of Information. Witnesses also will be on hand, including Robert Gatty, a former Tribune-Review reporter who covered the incident for this newspaper. Gordon said that when all the witness accounts are taken together, each piece corroborates the other. "Over the years, many different individuals were able to confirm what other people had already told us without them having known each other. So many pieces of the puzzle began to fit together after so many years of research," Gordon said. He says the actions of the government that night continue to fuel theories - and suspicions. "What was so important that the military responded the way it did that night?" He said he thinks there are three possibilities - that what crashed was an advanced, manmade space probe with some re-entry capability, that it was part of a secret government or military experiment, or that it was an extraterrestrial spacecraft. "It's an intriguing story," Gordon said. Ron Struble, chairman of the community's UFO and festival committee, said there is no doubt in his mind that something did crash in Kecksburg. But the question of what it was is not for the community to answer. "We're not investigators," he said. The event is being held at the fire department's social hall. It begins at 1 p.m. Seating is limited. Sam Kusic can be reached at skusic.nul or 724-463-8742
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 The Kecksburg UFO Incident From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:46:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:46:26 -0500 Subject: The Kecksburg UFO Incident Source: The Daily Courier - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA http://tinyurl.com/7e64m Tuesday, December 6, 2005 The Kecksburg UFO Incident By Mark Hofmann Daily Courier A fire in the sky, an acorn-shaped object partially buried in the ground, odd hieroglyphic markings, the military restricting access to the site, a possible government cover-up - all in Westmoreland County and it's all a part of what's known as the UFO incident in Kecksburg. Friday will mark the 40th anniversary of that incident, when numerous people witnessed a fireball streak across the skies in the late afternoon. While the fireball reportedly was seen in four states, it landed in a wooded area near the village of Kecksburg, near Mt. Pleasant. All the witnesses interviewed said that the object in question was large, metallic, acorn-shaped, with hieroglyphic markings, and partially buried in the ground. Soon after the object fell, the military was on the scene and cordoned off the area, forbidding access to everyone. Even after a military flat-bed trailer truck was seen rushing out of the area carrying a tarpaulin-covered object, to this day the official story from the government was that nothing was found, that what crashed was a meteorite. Stan Gordon, of Greensburg, remembers that night and the rest of the story well. Gordon was 16 years old at the time and was glued to both the radio and the television all night long, since he was already interested in supernatural phenomenon at an early age. "It became more intriguing as the evening went on," Gordon said. "I stayed up as late as I could, and then I read about it in the Tribune-Review the next day on the front page." Since then, Gordon's interest only grew. He started investigating the UFO incident over the years, making contact and interviewing numerous eye witnesses and consulting experts to post to his UFO/Bigfoot research Web site, www.stangordon.com Gordon is the organizer of a special event to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the Kecksburg incident, to bring more witnesses together and even attract new witnesses who may be now willing to tell the group what they saw. "Some still wish to remain anonymous," he said. Gordon said it took months to put together the program, which will feature speakers from as far as New York City and Washington, D.C. The program will include the following speakers: - Gordon, who will hold an illustrated talk about the incident based on the information he gathered from 40 years of research. - Robert Gatty, a reporter for the Tribune-Review in 1965. He will describe his assignment that night and how he was prevented from approaching the object by numerous Army personnel on the scene. - Larry Landsman, the director of special projects for the Sci- Fi Channel. He will discuss the channel's UFO Advocacy Initiative that supported a recent investigation of the Kecksburg case by the Coalition for Freedom of Information. The cable channel also produced two TV documentaries on Kecksburg that aired in 2003. - Leslie Kean, a journalist. She will speak on the forensic evidence recently discovered at the crash site and on her interviews with Air Force personnel involved in the search of the UFO. - Lee E. Helfrich, an attorney. He will speak about the current status of the lawsuit filed against NASA in 2003 to gain access information about the Kecksburg incident. There will also be a restored Kecksburg UFO monument on display behind the fire station, put together by the Kecksburg Volunteer Fire Department UFO and Festival Committee. One Connellsville resident excited about the upcoming event is Jerry Betters, who was an eye witness of the incident. It was on that Dec. 9 that Betters heard about the siting on the radio and decided to head out to the area with a few people. The military was already on the scene, blocking the main roads, but Betters knew the community well and took the back roads, he said. He saw steam emerging from the woods like there was a fire. He also saw a lot of soldiers, what could have been top military brass, people in lab coats and something he'll never forget: an object on a flat-bed truck with hieroglyphic writings on it that was leaving the woods. "That was no meteorite," Betters said. "It was something I'll never see again, but I'm glad I saw it." Although what Betters saw was unique and armed military personnel yelled at them to leave the scene, he wasn't scared. "I was very excited; it was a really good feeling," he said. "My heart was beating really fast." Stories like Betters can be heard during the program, which will take place at 1 p.m. Saturday at the Kecksburg VFD community hall. The program is free and open to the public, but seating is limited. Call 724-423-9540 for more information. Mark Hofmann can be reached at mhofmann.nul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 60 Years Since Flight 19 Disappeared From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:52:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:52:19 -0500 Subject: 60 Years Since Flight 19 Disappeared Source: The Khaleej Times - Dubai, United Arab Emirates http://tinyurl.com/9tb4w 6 December 2005 60 Years On, Loss Of Us Navy Planes Over Bermuda Still Unexplained FORT LAUDERDALE, Florida - Sixty years after Flight 19 flew into oblivion, the disappearance of the five planes and 14 crew members near Florida remains a mystery that some attribute to supernatural forces emanating from the Bermuda Triangle. Navy veterans Monday marked the anniversary at a small park by Fort Lauderdale airport's control tower, where a propeller mounted on a cement bloc commemorates the airmen who disappeared on the fateful training flight. They dismissed theories that strange powers were behind the deaths of the 14 men, as well as another 13 who went looking for them. "It was human error... I don't believe in that supernatural stuff," said Alan McElhiney, a retired navy machinist who organizes the annual ceremony. "I've been all through that Bermuda Triangle on ships many times, many times," said McElhiney, a veteran of World War II and the Korean War. It was a sunny Florida morning on December 5, 1945, when the five Grumman Avenger bombers took off from the US Naval air station in Fort Lauderdale for a navigational training flight over the so-called triangle that covers an area of the Atlantic Ocean between Bermuda, southern Florida and Puerto Rico. Several hours later, a radio message gave the first clue that something was wrong. "I don't know where we are, me must have got lost... My compasses have broken down," said Lieutenant Charles Taylor, who led the ill-fated Flight 19. Flight controllers soon lost all contact with the airmen. "Something went terribly wrong that day. Technology, human error, weather, the onset of night, fate? We don't know," Keith Taylor, who commands the Coast Guard in Miami said Monday. An official investigation initially blamed the flight leader, but the US Navy later ruled that the incident remained unexplained. A search aircraft sent out the same evening was never seen nor heard of after it took off from Fort Lauderdale, though a merchant ship in the area reported seeing what appeared to be an explosion. The events of that day 60 years ago "really started the legend of the Bermuda Triangle," said David White, who took part in search-and-rescue missions for the missing airmen. Numerous books and movies have capitalized on the mystery, including Steven Spielberg's 1977 "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," in which a team investigating UFOs discover the lost squadron in the Sonora Desert. Believers point to what they say is an unusually large number of planes and ships that vanished in the triangle, and claim magnetic fields render navigation instruments useless and that huge waves carry vessels to other dimensions or extra- terrestrial outposts. White, who clocked many flight hours over the area, dismissed such explanations as the stuff of legends. "I don't believe in that, I've never seen anything like that," he said. The planes may simply have run out of fuel and crashed at sea where the strong Gulf Stream currents carried away the wreckage, which has never been found, said White. But he admitted what exactly happened to Flight 19 remains a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Mystery Of UFO Research Puzzles Scientists From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:55:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 08:55:49 -0500 Subject: Mystery Of UFO Research Puzzles Scientists Source: China Daily - Beijing, China http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-12/06/content_3881704.htm 2005-12-06 Mystery Of UFO Research Puzzles Scientists Some people in Guiyang's Baiyun District believe they were visited by aliens in 1994. BEIJING, Dec. 6 -- Authorities in Guiyang, capital of Guizhou Province, announced yesterday that they had received 160 million yuan (US$20 million) from a Taiwan-based company to construct a UFO research base. Some people in the city's Baiyun District believe they were visited by aliens in 1994, and with this new research base, they hope to reproduce the mysterious moment, through photos and historical documentation. On November 30, 1994, more than 27 hectares of masson pines in a forest farm in the district mysteriously fell down. However, nearby plastic shelters stood intact. An adjacent truck factory reported similar enigmas: steel pipes were strangely broken; a huge truck was found more than 20 metres away from its original place; an employee on the night shift said he had been pulled up in the air by an "unknown" force. While some thought it was UFOs that did all these strange things, scientists said after a field trip that thunder, lightning and tornados were the probable causes. Wang Fangchen, a biologist who visited the site right after the event, said the city's plan to build a UFO research base is "ridiculous." "Where do they recruit scientists for the research?" he asked, before adding: "I won't oppose it if they just want to promote local tourism through the programme." Li Jing, a senior astronomer with the National Astronomical Observatories, echoed the view. Li said China does not have an official UFO research institute because "it needs scientists of various disciplines." "It can be an atmospheric phenomenon, or a biological issue, or a physical reaction," Li said. "People often mistake planes, clouds and insects, as well as strange shadows on photographs, as being UFOs," said Zhou Xiaoqiang, secretary-general with the Beijing UFO Research Association.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Secrecy News -- 12/06/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:57:22 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:19:42 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 12/06/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 110 December 6, 2005 ** A FAILING GRADE ON SECRECY REFORM ** NRO DEFENDS FOIA EXEMPTION FOR OPERATIONAL FILES ** DOD DOCTRINE ON PUBLIC AFFAIRS ** OVERSIGHT OF NAVY INTELLIGENCE ** DOD STABILITY OPERATIONS ** CRS ON SPACE POLICY A FAILING GRADE ON SECRECY REFORM Congress deserves an "F" for failing to declassify the amount of the overall intelligence budget, members of the 9/11 Commission said in a final report on the status of their recommendations. "The Congress cannot do robust intelligence oversight when funding for intelligence programs is buried within the defense budget. Declassifying the overall intelligence budget would allow for a separate annual intelligence appropriations bill, so that the Congress can judge better how intelligence funds are being spent." See the Final Report on 9/11 Commission Recommendations, December 5: http://www.9-11pdp.org/ The Commission recommendation to declassify the intelligence budget was intended not merely to produce public disclosure of a particular number. It was the beginning of an attempt to reform the entire edifice of unnecessary secrecy that, the Commission said, undermines the performance of U.S. intelligence. But the Commission initiative, opposed by the Bush White House and blocked by House Republicans, was stopped in its tracks. Several news stories have suggested that the secrecy of the intelligence budgeting process may have facilitated or exacerbated the admitted corruption of House Intelligence Committee member Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham. See "Pentagon's 'Black Budget' Veils Contracting Shenanigans" by David Wood, Newhouse News, November 30: http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/wood113005.html NRO DEFENDS FOIA EXEMPTION FOR OPERATIONAL FILES The National Reconnaissance Office told a federal court yesterday that it should not have to process a Freedom of Information Act request for unclassified portions of its congressional budget justification book because the document is contained in "operational files" that are exempt from search and review under the FOIA. That contention was challenged in a lawsuit by the Federation of American Scientists, which told the court that the budget book cannot be considered an operational file because it is disseminated inside and outside of the agency, and that records that have been disseminated are excluded by statute from the definition of operational files. Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR), a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, confirmed the fact that his Committee is in possession of the requested budget justification document, and said it should be processed under FOIA. "It would seem appropriate for this document to be subject to review under the Freedom of Information Act," Senator Wyden wrote. "Of course large portions of the document will be exempt from disclosure as they are properly classified." In the past, more than 100 pages out of approximately 300 pages in the NRO budget justification book have been partially or completely declassified under the FOIA. See the latest case files from Aftergood v. National Reconnaissance Office here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/nro-cbjb/index.html The case is before the Honorable Reggie B. Walton, who is also the presiding judge in USA v. I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby. DOD DOCTRINE ON PUBLIC AFFAIRS The role of Department of Defense Public Affairs (PA) officers in disseminating public information and their relationship to psychological operations and military deception targeted at enemy forces and populations were set forth in a DoD doctrinal publication earlier this year. News reports in the Los Angeles Times and elsewhere recently revealed that a Pentagon contractor had paid to have favorable news stories planted in the Iraqi press. The practice was widely criticized as inconsistent with efforts to build democracy and a free press in Iraq. Yet such "information operations," like military deception, are an established part of the military toolkit. "PA [public affairs] and information operations (IO) activities directly support military objectives, counter adversary disinformation and deter adversary actions. Although both PA and IO require planning, message development and media analysis, the efforts differ with respect to audience, scope and intent, and must remain separate," according to the DoD doctrinal publication. "PA capabilities are related to IO, but PA is not an IO discipline or psychological operations (PSYOP) tool.... PA activities affect, and are affected by, PSYOP, and are planned and executed in coordination with PSYOP planning and operations. PA must be aware of the practice of PSYOP, but should have no role in planning or executing these operations." Likewise, "PA activities affect, and are affected by, military deception (MILDEC) operations. PA operations should be planned, coordinated and deconflicted with MILDEC operations consistent with policy, statutory limitations, and security. PA must be aware of the practice of MILDEC operations, but should have no role in planning or executing these operations." See "Public Affairs," Joint Publication 3-61, U.S. Department of Defense, 9 May 2005 (97 pages, 1.5 MB): http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/jp3_61.pdf OVERSIGHT OF NAVY INTELLIGENCE Oversight of Navy intelligence activities is the subject of a recently issued Instruction from the Secretary of the Navy. The Instruction helpfully includes an "updated definition of DON [Department of the Navy] intelligence components, to include new and reorganized DON intelligence organizations." "Under no circumstances shall any DON personnel condone, support, encourage, engage in, or conspire to engage in the assassination of a specific individual or individuals," the Instruction states in passing. See "Oversight of Intelligence Activities Within the Department of the Navy," SECNAVINST 3820.3E, 21 September 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/navy/secnavinst/3820_3e.pdf DOD STABILITY OPERATIONS "Stability operations are a core U.S. military mission that the Department of Defense shall be prepared to conduct and support," according to a new Pentagon directive. "They shall be given priority comparable to combat operations...." The new directive, which was first reported in the New York Times, evidently reflects and responds to defects in military efforts to stabilize Iraq following the U.S. invasion. See "Military Support for Stability, Security, Transition, and Reconstruction (SSTR) Operations," DOD Directive 3000.05, 28 November 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/d3000_05.pdf See, relatedly, "Peacekeeping and Related Stability Operations: Issues of U.S. Military Involvement," Congressional Research Service, updated October 27, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/IB94040.pdf CRS ON SPACE POLICY Recent reports of the Congressional Research Service on space policy include the following: "Military Space Programs: Issues Concerning DOD's SBIRS and STSS Programs," updated November 25, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RS21148.pdf "Space Exploration: Issues Concerning the 'Vision for Space Exploration'," updated November 18, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/space/RS21720.pdf "The National Aeronautics and Space Administration's FY2006 Budget Request: Description, Analysis, and Issues for Congress," updated November 17, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/space/RL32988.pdf "The National Aeronautics and Space Administration: Overview, FY2006 Budget in Brief, and Key Issues for Congress," updated November 17, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/space/RS22063.pdf "U.S. Space Programs: Civilian, Military, and Commercial," updated November 17, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/space/IB92011.pdf "Space Stations," updated November 17, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/space/IB93017.pdf "The International Space Station and the Iran Nonproliferation Act (INA): The Bush Administration's Proposed INA Amendment," updated November 14, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/space/RS22270.pdf "China's Space Program: An Overview," updated October 18, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/space/RS21641.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Kecksburg UFO Fest Backs Fire Department From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:24:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:24:09 -0500 Subject: Kecksburg UFO Fest Backs Fire Department Source: United Press International - Washington, DC, USA http://tinyurl.com/d7bmw 12/6/2005 Pa. Town's UFO Fest Backs Fire Department KECKSBURG, Pa., Dec. 6 (UPI) -- Kecksburg, Pa., hopes Saturday's celebration of a 40-year-old UFO crash brings people with some cash to burn to support the local fire department. Whatever crashed near the community on Dec. 9, 1965, caused a fireball seen in four states. While the U.S. military claimed it found nothing, widespread reports described it as metallic, acorn-shaped, large enough for a man to stand on and bearing strange markings akin to hieroglyphics, the Pittsburgh Tribune- Review reported. Kecksburg plans a daylong celebration Saturday including witnesses and a replica of the object used in a recreation by TV show "Unsolved Mysteries." Organizers said, while admission is free, they hope UFO fans donate money to support the local fire department, which was
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:54:02 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:30:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 16:50:26 -0000 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:54:18 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >>Who is Hellyer? A former Canadian Defence Minister who has no >>classified information regarding UFOs from his time in office Hi Josh, I would be skeptical of that claim. Think of your own Sec.Defence or Sec.State. Do you really believe that they would have no insider information? Hellyer was part of Prime Minister Mike Pearson's Liberal government and Mike himself was an intelligence courier during WWII. His roots went deep into the BSI and OSS during that war, working for Bill Stephenson head of the BSI. >>but says that an unnamed general told him that the Corso book >>was true. That could be a generalized statement. >>So you have a second hand story with no verification >>and no evidence. Now he wants the Canadian government to examine >>the UFO phenomena. His effectiveness would be practically nil where influence is concerned with the present on-it's-way-out [I hope] Liberal government. >>I am not Ramtha but I predict that will go >>absolutely nowhere. Remember how far Salla's buddy Stephen Greer >>( a proven liar) got with the US Congress. They are not the >>leading edge of ufology but they are the hemorrhoid at the other >>end. Both their approaches are so flawed that no one in a >>serious position will entertain them. >Paul Hellyer sounds like the Canadian equivalent of our own >Admiral of the Fleet Lord Hill-Norton. In a very high position >whilst Chief of the Defence Staff (and thus someone who ought to >be in a position to know if there was indeed a high level cover- >up), then, when retired, goes a bit dotty over UFOs and >accuses his own government, and others, of the same cover-up. So I'm expected to take your word for it, Chris, that the Admiral of the Fleet with thousands under his command, millions of pounds worth of vessels at his disposal was a bit dotty, but you aren't. Whose word do you think I'd take on it. It's amazing what you guys blow off without any backup evidence whatsoever. >Hill-Norton was also a believer in MJ-12. Yeah, sure. Couldn't resist the word "believer" could you? Add something of value to the List will you, instead of nattering on with the same old stuff in each post. >Yes, you are quite correct. Hellyer's attempts will get >absolutely nowhere. I was negative about Hellyer, but now that you've enlightened us all with your wisdom, I'm having second thoughts.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:56:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:44:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure Hi All, I'd like to clear something up in this discussion, only because I've been wrongly quoted on this List several times in the last two days - so here's what I actually wrote: >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:10:33 +0000 >Subject: Re: Radio Hosts Chime In On Canadian ET Disclosure >Won't get involved in any personal stuff, but like to help folk >showing signs of despondency (and maybe even cynicism): maybe >from expecting too much of humans' media. >A rule-of-thumb is that those in "authority" have nasty things to >conceal - mainly because nasty people want and get authority. And >concealment always leads to entrenched dogmatism on _all_ >subjects, especially those affecting our thought processes: >that's facts about the world, its people, science and education >generally. And the media, like the police and the military, are >(mostly) tools of authority in their cover-ups. >[Some know how much anger I've had from List "book scientists" >for saying things which are now being accepted (by the >field-leaders anyway). Simple things like `inertia' = `momentum' >fr'instance. That's "authority" getting irate over free thinking >- which turned out to be correct.] >Real skeptics (test everything) are great, and Diogenes (an early >`cynic') is my personal hero, but feel that hard-line unreasoning >skepticism or cynicism is a sign of old-age or disappointment >souring a person's disposition. >And favorite rule-of-thumb is: don't rule out anything a priori. >I.e. cherish naivety - without it we wouldn't be asking those >important questions. >Take it easy. As you see I _didn't_ say anything about any person - although anyone who wants to can feel aggrieved. Cheers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Court To Hear 'Alien' Insanity Case - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 00:00:14 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:46:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Court To Hear 'Alien' Insanity Case - Rimmer >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:51:29 EST >Subject: Court To Hear 'Alien' Insanity Case >U.S. Supreme Court To Hear 'Alien' Insanity Defense Case >http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/05/D8EA7SSO0.html >Brother! >Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the court >system. >This story is about a then 17 year-old boy who shot and killed a >police officer during a routine traffic stop. >The boy was found to have been suffering from paranoid >schizophrenia the defense claims and wasn't allowed to admit >that data into the court system. >His delusions consisted of aliens trying to take over the Earth. >This is a major, major case before the court as it's often shied >away from insanity defense. Reason being there's a caveate >associated with claiming one person's viewpoints as insane and >invalidating one's own. The late legendary comedian Flip Wilson >used to have a stage routine where he'd excuse his >transgressions as "The Devil made me do it!". Quite hilarious, >but not admissable in the court system or everyone would claim >it. >How do you prove it? Almost 2 billion people believe in some >being called Satan or Shay-Tan or whatever but they won't admit >it in court or they'd be hauled off to a looney-bin. >The fact his victim was an officer of the law doesn't help in >any way shape or form. >You can see where this is going. Better batten down the hatches >as this is just more fuel for the fire to one day officially >blanket everyone associated with the subject matter as mentally >ill requiring some form of mandatory testing and/or treatment. >We're soon looking at a world where no matter what you believe, >pro or con, will land you under a control mechanism of the state >like in Red China. >It wouldn't surprise me one iota if one day they start rounding >up Christians again like they did in ancient Rome. >Rub someone in power the wrong way and it's off to Never-Never- >Land. >It's happened far too much in the past two centuries, this one >seems to be getting off to a great start.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Asians Believe In Little Green Men From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:52:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:52:41 -0500 Subject: Asians Believe In Little Green Men Source: The Asian Pacific Post - Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news/article/950.html Dec 6, 2005 Asians Believe In Little Green Men From Outer Space Alien encounters and UFO sightings, along with a fascination for outer space, are alive and strong in Asia, according to survey results released by global market research company Synovate. Synovate director Scott Lee said the recent successful Chinese space mission inspired the firm to explore Asian perceptions of space, resulting in some out of this world findings on people�s attitudes, space travel desires and extraterrestrial experiences. The survey covered 5,500 respondents in China, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia and Korea. "Asians are clearly convinced that we are not alone in our universe, with more than six out of 10 people (64 percent) surveyed across all countries believing that intelligent life exists on planets other than earth," Lee said. "Personal extraterrestrial experiences are also far more common than expected with 10 percent of Asians believing that they have seen a UFO and a further three percent believing that they have had an encounter with aliens from another planet. "When applied across the enormous populations of the countries surveyed, that is over 250 million UFO sightings and more than 80 million alien encounters," added Lee. Chinese (81 percent) and Hong Kong residents (70 percent) are the most likely to believe in intelligent life outside of earth while UFO sightings are more common in India (13 percent), Korea (10 percent) and China (9 percent). Visitors from other worlds land more often in Indonesia, where six percent of respondents believe they have had an encounter with aliens from another planet, and Korea, where eight percent of residents aged 50 to 64 reported making contact with alien counterparts. Although many Asians believe that life exists on other planets, they are not so keen to go exploring these unknown worlds themselves just yet. Sixty-one percent of respondents across Asia said they would not want to travel to outer space if given the option. The Chinese (76 percent) and Indonesians (71 percent) are the least adventurous populations when it comes to space travel. Indians are the only people who appear keen to explore their astral surroundings, with 60 percent saying they would like to travel to outer space one day. "Indian Astronaut Kalpana Chawla, a crew member aboard the ill- fated Columbia Space Shuttle Mission, is a national hero and admired by Indians everywhere for the dedication she showed in following her dream of traveling to space," said Alok Shanker, managing director of Synovate India. "Her memory and commitment have helped inspire many Indians to also dream of one day exploring the stars," Shanker added. Synovate Indonesia Managing Director Robby Susatyo said the high rate of alien experiences in Indonesia may be connected to their culture�s firm belief in ghosts. "Indonesians, like many Asians, hold a strong belief in the existence of ghosts," he said. "It may well be that people believe their experiences with ghosts are similar to aliens, while many are also of the opinion that all creatures from another world are really siblings anyway." Despite a relatively low regional enthusiasm for personal space travel, 64 percent of Asians are certain that space tourism will become a big industry in the future with the Chinese (72 percent) and Koreans (69 percent) the most convinced. "However, Hong Kong residents are the most likely contenders for any fledgling space tour with 76 percent very willing to pay US$20 million (C$23 million) to travel to the moon if they had the money." Koreans are the least enthusiastic about having a space travelling child with only 19 percent supportive of such a career and 61 percent firmly against their children becoming astronauts. Regardless of space travel plans, parental ambitions or personal experience, it is clear that people in Asia remain fascinated with space and the great unknown of our universe. "We may be no closer to proving the existence or otherwise of aliens and UFOs," he said. "But with 62 percent of Asians agreeing that man walking on the moon was one of the greatest achievements of the 20th century, space travel and the possibility of extraterrestrial life clearly continue to capture people�s imaginations right around the world." results released by global market research company Synovate. Synovate director Scott Lee said the recent successful Chinese space mission inspired the firm to explore Asian perceptions of space, resulting in some out-of-this-world findings on people�s attitudes, space travel desires and extraterrestrial experiences. The survey covered 5,500 respondents in China, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia and Korea. "Asians are clearly convinced that we are not alone in our universe, with more than six out of 10 people (64 percent) surveyed across all countries believing that intelligent life exists on planets other than earth," Lee said. "Personal extraterrestrial experiences are also far more common than expected with 10 percent of Asians believing that they have seen a UFO and a further three percent believing that they have had an encounter with aliens from another planet. "When applied across the enormous populations of the countries surveyed, that is over 250 million UFO sightings and more than 80 million alien encounters," added Lee. Chinese (81 percent) and Hong Kong residents (70 percent) are the most likely to believe in intelligent life outside of earth while UFO sightings are more common in India (13 percent), Korea (10 percent) and China (9 percent). Visitors from other worlds land more often in Indonesia, where six percent of respondents believe they have had an encounter with aliens from another planet, and Korea, where eight percent of residents aged 50 to 64 reported making contact with alien counterparts. Although many Asians believe that life exists on other planets, they are not so keen to go exploring these unknown worlds themselves just yet. Sixty-one percent of respondents across Asia said they would not want to travel to outer space if given the option. The Chinese (76 percent) and Indonesians (71 percent) are the least adventurous populations when it comes to space travel. Indians are the only people who appear keen to explore their astral surroundings, with 60 percent saying they would like to travel to outer space one day. "Indian Astronaut Kalpana Chawla, a crew member aboard the ill- fated Columbia Space Shuttle Mission, is a national hero and admired by Indians everywhere for the dedication she showed in following her dream of traveling to space," said Alok Shanker, managing director of Synovate India. "Her memory and commitment have helped inspire many Indians to also dream of one day exploring the stars," Shanker added. Synovate Indonesia Managing Director Robby Susatyo said the high rate of alien experiences in Indonesia may be connected to their culture�s firm belief in ghosts. "Indonesians, like many Asians, hold a strong belief in the existence of ghosts," he said. "It may well be that people believe their experiences with ghosts are similar to aliens, while many are also of the opinion that all creatures from another world are really siblings anyway." Despite a relatively low regional enthusiasm for personal space travel, 64 percent of Asians are certain that space tourism will become a big industry in the future with the Chinese (72 percent) and Koreans (69 percent) the most convinced. "However, Hong Kong residents are the most likely contenders for any fledgling space tour with 76 percent very willing to pay US$20 million (C$23 million) to travel to the moon if they had the money." Koreans are the least enthusiastic about having a space travelling child with only 19 percent supportive of such a career and 61 percent firmly against their children becoming astronauts. Regardless of space travel plans, parental ambitions or personal experience, it is clear that people in Asia remain fascinated with space and the great unknown of our universe. "We may be no closer to proving the existence or otherwise of aliens and UFOs," he said "But with 62 percent of Asians agreeing that man walking on the moon was one of the greatest achievements of the 20th century, space travel and the possibility of extraterrestrial life clearly continue to capture people�s imaginations right around the world." A significant number of Indians (38 percent) and Chinese (35 percent) were also prepared to spend a substantial sum for a lunar landing, while practical Indonesians (21 percent) and Koreans (20 percent) believe such spending to be flights of fancy. Lee said the willingness to spend large amounts on space travel reflected the general spending characteristics of these populations. "Hong Kong residents, renowned as status-conscious consumers, would view a US$20 million trip to the moon as a very exclusive holiday indeed," he said. "Koreans on the other hand are far more practical and realistic when it comes to their spending and so are more likely to reject such extravagance.� While children in the region, motivated by Chinese astronauts Fei Junlong and Nie Haisheng, may harbour dreams of one day having a career in space, their parents have alternative plans with only 42 percent of Asians regionally wanting their children to become an astronaut. Residents in Hong Kong (61 percent) and India (56 percent) are far more likely to want their children to become astronauts compared to people in China (34 percent). Koreans are the least enthusiastic about having a space traveling child with only 19 percent supportive of such a career and 61 percent firmly against their children becoming astronauts.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 23:11:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 10:57:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:50:07 -0800 >Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 15:23:34 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface >Hello Joe, Paul: >This has me wondering also. Can radar like this really >distinguish between the liquid and solid (ice) phases of water >or not? It has to look thru layers of sand, gravel and/or rock >after all. >Malin of Malin SSS reluctantly admitted evidence of liquid water >seeping out the sides of some steep cliff or scarp on Mars, but >that was visual evidence taken from camera images, not radar. >I wouldn't be at all surprised if liquid water were eventually >proved at some depth beneath the surface where conditions are >right. >The next big question for me is whether there is/was enough >water, for long enough, for some sort of primitive live to >emerge. >I suspect fewer experts claim that is impossible now, than would >have said so 10 or 20 years ago. All the more so for simple >liquid water. As far as I know it can to some degree, I'd have to look up the specifics again though. ESA seems to feel that the early water could have lasted long enough, and, of key importance, the water history traced by the phyllosilicates/clay minerals found by Mars Express is different from that of the highly acidic and salty water documented by the rovers, Opportunity in particular: http://tinyurl.com/daogm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4502018.stm While much of the media and science media coverage this past week has mentioned the subsurface ice found, only a handful I've seen have mentioned the phyllosilicates, but the ESA and BBC News links above do, and put both the Mars Express and rover findings in more context (as we understand them right now). And thanks, Nick, for that other link re underground water, looks interesting. Someone else told me that Carl Sagan also had a similar paper proposing the same kind of thing, but I don't have the direct link or reference yet. Thanks also, Joe, the blog is coming along, still tweaking it a bit as the Blogger templates don't always seem to view properly on my Mac. I make a point of trying to stay away from the more sensationalistic claims that are so prevalent on the web, but whenever good new findings are made, I try to get them posted
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Chinese City To Build UFO Research Center From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:00:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:00:08 -0500 Subject: Chinese City To Build UFO Research Center Source: United Press International http://tinyurl.com/b23u7 12/6/2005 Chinese City To Build UFO Research Center GUIYANG, China, Dec. 6 (UPI) -- A Taiwanese company has put up $20 million to build a UFO research base in China's southern province of Guizhou, where aliens are said to have visited in 1994. Residents of Baiyun district in Guiyang, the provincial capital, hope the institute will look into the odd phenomena they experienced Nov. 30, 1994, Xinhua reported Tuesday. On that date, nearly 70 acres of pine trees on a tree farm mysteriously fell down, while nearby plastic shelters remained intact. A truck factory reported steel pipes strangely broken, a huge truck moved more than 20 yards, and a night shift employee pulled into the air by an "unknown force." Local residents attributed the odd occurrences to UFOs, but scientists sent to investigate blamed them on thunder, lightning and tornados. Wang Fangchen, a biologist who visited the site shortly after the reported events, called the UFO research plan "ridiculous," but said he would not oppose it if it would attract tourists to the city. Zhou Xiaoqiang, secretary general of the Beijing UFO Research Association, said people often mistake planes, clouds, insects and shadows for UFOs. "If aliens really came, they would more
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Voices From Above From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:06:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:06:50 -0500 Subject: Voices From Above Source: The Star - Cape Town, South Africa http://www.thestar.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=225&fArticleId=3024687 December 7, 2005 Opinion Voices From Above By Clive Percival The world is full of inexplicable phenomena, for which I can vouch. However, I never once thought I would experience any. I recently saw a circle of blazing lights in the night sky, and then something light emerging from one side of a flying vehicle. Some 20 seconds elapsed before I heard a thunderclap, which meant that the vehicle must have been 20 to 25km from where I was standing. Within seconds it was hovering a short distance from me. Seeing is believing, and hearing the thunder could not be deceiving. I still don't believe what I saw. However, the incident remains on the retina of my mind's eye. The vehicle did not have the appearance of an Unidentified Flying Object (UFO). It looked like an Identifiable Flying Object, a vehicle of the stratosphere. It was circular at the bottom, with bright flashing lights, and triangular at the top. A voice hummed the words: �Contact us on the hydrogen waves,� and then the vehicle disappeared. What happened next must have been due to the mysterious sighting. That night I was lying in bed when I felt myself leaving my body. My body floated upwards towards the ceiling and then, touching the ceiling with my back, I looked down at my physical body lying on the bed. My floating body then calmly returned to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Former KGB Chief Reveals Supernatural Truth From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:10:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:10:47 -0500 Subject: Former KGB Chief Reveals Supernatural Truth Source: Komsomolskaya Pravda - Moscow, Russia http://www.mosnews.com/interview/2005/12/06/kgbchief.shtml 06.12.2005 Former KGB Chief Reveals Supernatural Truth Former KGB chief Vladimir Kryuchkov spent 20 years in the Soviet intelligence agencies. In an interview with the Komsomolskaya Pravda daily he reveals what the KGB knows about UFOs and other supernatural phenomena, life in space and secret agents' secret methods. The media keep telling us about UFOs and a variety of other supernatural phenomena. Researchers and cosmonauts may have different opinions on the matter, but all of them are sure of one thing: that exact information can be obtained from the intelligence agencies. You headed the Soviet secret service for the longest period of time, 17 years, that is, from 1971 to 1988. You also chaired the KGB from 1988 to 1991. You must be able to give us the ultimate truth =97 are there any UFOs out there? We have never received any proof whatsoever that UFOs or other supernatural phenomena actually exist. The authorities asked me many times to prove or refute reports of this or that inexplicable incident on the planet. Most frequently I received requests concerning UFOs and yetis, the "snow people". I would commission our best specialists and agents to find out where the reports that worried society so much came from. In the end it always turned out to be pure imagination. Sometimes an ignorant observer would interpret an unfamiliar phenomenon in a mystical way, sometimes a perfectly ordinary event would be called supernatural to make news. Often the people would add the KGB knew about the supernatural phenomenon, but wanted to keep it secret. With full responsibility I have to state =97 never ever during the long period of my work with the intelligence service was anything really supernatural spotted, either in Russia or in any other country. When I say "other country", I rely on the information from the highest officials, military, research and of course the intelligence agencies of foreign states. The point is, in every "important" country presidents, prime ministers and secret service chiefs requested investigations into resonant abnormal incidents. And in every case, in each country, competent people would give one and the same answer =97 no. I have personally read copies of these reports. I finally came to the conclusion that, for better or for worse, there is nothing supernatural on the Earth. Then how do you explain the annual self-ignition of the sacred fire in Jerusalem? I'm afraid I must disappoint you =97 it is just smart work, or if I may say so =97 a trick of the local clergymen. It has nothing to do with the divine powers. I could go further and say that our KGB researchers could organize a couple of miracles in Moscow that would totally outshine the Jerusalem fire. But this would mean playing games with believers' religious feelings. This is utter disrespect, relying on their ignorance of some natural phenomena and secret scientific inventions. However, I do not rule out the possibility of us having neighbors in the endless depths of space. Space abounds with various life forms, but of course they have nothing in common with the stories that indecent researchers and mentally ill people tell us. Actually the only accident that inspired serious theories was that of the Tunguska meteorite=85 Did the Soviet authorities commission you to get information about the Tunguska comet from the U.S.? No. Because there was not a single clue to start from. If we had had something, we would have tried to investigate, but we didn't! And neither did the U.S. nor any other country. By the way, the Americans tried conducting so-called "parapsychology experiments", but made no progress. Neither did our own research institutes in this respect, although we also conducted some research=85 There are more exaggerations than achievements here. More precisely, no discoveries at all, and this with the efforts of the KGB's best, most extraordinary thinkers. This is a field that generations can explore for years, and still discover nothing. So you have to be careful when approaching it, and give no promises to anybody, but persistently continue the research. Then maybe you can answer some of the expectations by revealing something new. So all these rumors of the KGB's 'zombifying' its agents, or of whole closed special-mission towns, this is sci-fi fantasy, playing games with an ignorant and spooked public. At the same time the subject looks fairly promising to me; we know so little about the human body, while the experiments show it has an amazing potential=85 So, what I want to say is that =97 had there been anything at all, our agents would have informed me immediately. Books and movies about spies are packed with stories of mysterious deaths. Venoms that are impossible to trace, unheard of weapons and murderous fighting techniques. Now is any of that true? Who and in what case would act this way? All of this is true. Some still is. But "the fashion" today is a battle of minds. Intelligence agents, and especially espionage agents try to outwit their opponents with complicated operations. They try to fool their opponents. Actually the murder of Stepan Bandera was one of the last cases when the KGB disposed of undesired people by means of violence. The USSR abandoned those methods in the times of Andropov, at the beginning of the 1980s. The West proclaimed the same non-violence policy, but we have information raising doubts that, say, the Americans follow this policy. We witnessed agents who were U.S. nationals disappear, and then learned they were dead. Is it possible to steal a person from a foreign country and secretly bring them to Russia? Well, technically this is no problem at all! Just name him! More important here is the issue of relations between Russia and other states. The times when we stole people are gone. If you steal a person today, and another tomorrow =97 who can guarantee other states will not start thinking badly of us? They may decide that Russia is not to be trusted, is not to be dealt with. Relations with other countries are more important for Russia than success in a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Big Doings Planned For Kecksburg From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 02:36:43 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:26:24 -0500 Subject: Big Doings Planned For Kecksburg Big Doings Planned For Kecksburg UFO Incident 40th Anniversary Man am I tempted to jet to Kecksburg! If there's one thing that goes hand in hand with ufology it's the fact that any Ufo get-together is going to have the best food money can buy! I'll bet there'll be many a buckle-buster will be served up!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Victor Martinez's List? From: Lesley Gunter <decogrl.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:28:56 -0500 Subject: Victor Martinez's List? Hi all! I have been lurking here a while, but never posted. I keep hearing much about this UFO List, moderated by Victor Martinez. It is apparently where the Serpo postings were first released or something. When Bill Ryan was on C2C last night he said the list of members reads like a "who's who" of ufology. So have any of you ever heard of this List, is anyone a member?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Million Year Old ET Footprints Found? From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:45:10 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:30:43 -0500 Subject: Million Year Old ET Footprints Found? Hi Everyone! Human footprints believed to be 1.3 million years old have been found in North America. If their estimated age is correct, this which would make them over 1 million years older than modern man! Geological dating has been known to be notoriously wrong since it is usually based on a few observations or on many reasonable assumptions - some which later true out not to be true. If the age of these footprints do predate human history by over one million years, I propose that these human-like footprints may have been produced by some different biped humanoids (Nephilim, ETs?) that lived on Earth before man. Study Treads On Footprint Claim Thursday, 1 December 2005 Full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4488490.stm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Back To Roswell - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:54:46 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:33:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Back To Roswell - Balaskas Hello Everyone! Since Nick Redfern is no longer a UFO UpDates subscriber, I asked and got his permission to post his responses which he himself ammended for accuracy (see below) for posting to the List. Nick Balaskas ----- >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: Nick Redfern <snip> >>Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 14:11:25 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Redfern >>Thank you Nick for your two e-mails! >>Although you are no longer on the UFO UpDates List but have >>some very important things in the two e-mails you sent to me >>that others should know about too. Would you like me to forward >>the message below containing your two replies (with your e-mail >>address deleted) to the UFO UpDates list? >>Thanks again for your replies. I will keep you posted on new >>and important developments regarding the Roswell UFO crash >>incident. There may be a lot more to the connection between UFOs >>and the powerful military and political leaders that run our >>world. Ryan wrote this in his book (page 251): When pressed >concerning the numerous sightings near military bases in New >>Mexico [The 509th stationed at Roswell Army Air Force Base was >>the only nuclear capable air wing at the time] after the July >>1947 UFO "flap", he [Cantwheel] guardly reponded by saying, >>"...because of a kindred need." This is not unlike what Paul >>Hellyer, once Canada's Minister of National Defense and close >>friends of Dr. Peter Millman of NRC who headed Canada's study of >>UFOs (both devout Christians who attended the same church in >>Ottawa), had to say regarding the "visitors" which are a matter >>of profound discomfort to those on Earth "whose major activity >>is tribal warfare" [as Stan Friedman has frequently pointed out >>in his talks about UFOs and ETs]. >>Nick >Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:18:35 -0600 >From: Nick Redfern <snip> >To: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >Subject: Re: Reply from Nick Redfern <snip> >Nick, >I was just sent a copy of your email to Updates by a friend (I >no longer subscribe to it). So that you will be aware of the >facts from my position: yes, those pictures in Ryan's book are >very interesting. However, the very first time that I saw them >(or had any awareness of their existence) was, like you, when I >received a copy of the book from Ryan about a week or so ago. >So, in other words, the pictures were in Ryan's possession, not >in the possession of the Majestic Research team as you stated. >As to what they show, I have absolutely no idea. But I would >hope that perhaps in the future Ryan might have more data to >reveal on this. Although I need to stress that I do not know if >such additional material exists. Yes I am listed as being on >Ryan's Majestic Research Team at his website. The simple reason >for this is that the MJ12 story still interests me a lot and I >am still actively investigating the subject, and the documents, >and any data I get that I think might interest people who are >interested in MJ12, I send it on to them - including Ryan. Hence >why he lists me as part of his research team, even if we don't >always agree on everything. Some of that data (when I was more
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Other 'Roswells' On History Channel From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:08:25 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:08:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Other 'Roswells' On History Channel Hi Everyone! Although Canada's Roswell (the 1967 Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia UFO crash incident), the pre-WWII German and Italian Roswells or even the other U.S. Roswell (the 1965 Kecksburg, Pennsylvania UFO crash incident where witnesses will be celebrating its 40th anniversary later this week) are not among these, our U.S. friends will have many new and interesting UFO crash/recovery documentaries to watch on 'The History Channel' this month. Regarding the many still unanswered questions about the crash at Kecksburg, and the crash of Flight 93 about 40 miles further to the east, the public has a right to know the truth and not base it on what they learn on made for TV movies of these incidents. I plan to be there this weekend to learn more from the actual witnesses which I will share with Jon Alon Walz, the producer of The History Channel's 'UFO Files' series. It has been suggested the well over 100 known or suspected UFO crash incidents, most since WWII, cannot be true since ETs that are technologically more advanced than us would certainly be better pilots and can avoid such fatal crashes. This assumes, of course that we did not shoot them down... If this was not the truth, why would pieces shot off a flying saucer be sent to Ottawa for analysis by our top metallurgists or why would Col. Corso's boss, General Trudeau, visit Toronto to check up on the secret flying saucer (not the Avrocar) being reversed engineered here that the U.S. Army and later the U.S. Air Force was funding? Although I am among those few which cannot accept what Canada's past Minister of National Defense and once Deputy Prime Minister said as the whole truth behind "Star Wars" and the new "Missile Defence Initiative" that the U.S. still hopes to get Canada to actively participate in after our national elections next month, I cannot blame Paul Hellyer for worrying that our actions may start an "intergalactic war". Can you? Nick Balaskas ---------- UFO Files: Mexico's Roswell. Monday, December 12 at 8pm ET Tuesday, December 13 at 12am ET Coyame, Mexico is a small town not far from the US border. It's home to three thousand people and possibly the best-kept secret of all-time. In August of 1974, the USA military was tracking a mysterious object over Mexico; then suddenly it disappeared from radar near Coyame. At the same time a civilian plane headed in the opposite direction is reported missing. What follows next is the stuff Hollywood blockbusters are made of: a crash site, a spacecraft, dead bodies, a covert recovery mission, and a government cover-up. Is this the story of the century, or just a piece of Mexican folklore? Over the last 15 years, Mexico has experienced an unprecedented UFO wave. While the sheer volume of encounters garners attention, it's the apparent quality, or credibility, of these incidents that has our attention. Through interviews with witnesses and experts we examine the evidence, and controversial footage released by the Mexican military reveals never before seen video. UFO Files: Britain's Roswell. Saturday, December 17 at 8pm ET Sunday, December 18 at 12am ET Over three nights in December 1980, Air Force personnel stationed at a NATO installation in England witness strange lights in the sky above the RAF Bentwaters and Woodbridge bases. On the night of the 25th, when servicemen spot a glowing object in the woods, they investigate and come upon a triangular metallic craft. One of them touches it and records strange etchings in his notebook. It shoots above the treetops and the men are later found in a daze by other troops. Two nights later, the Deputy Base Commander and a team investigating the alleged site see lights over a field beyond the woods and a red object. It speeds off, beaming lights over the bases. Some witnesses allege use of force and sodium pentothal during interrogation. A memorandum issued by the Deputy Base Commander, which records some statements, is later released via the Freedom of Information Act. More files are released in 2002 but, to this day, the events remain a mystery. We'll try to unravel it. UFO Files: Brazil's Roswell. Saturday, December 17 at 9pm ET Sunday, December 18 at 1am ET In September 1977, something amazing appears in the night sky over the Brazilian island of Colares in the Amazon delta--a luminous object hovering about 15 feet over the water. For nearly two months, strange flying objects visit the island--some big, some small, saucer-shaped, cigar-shaped, some luminous and some not. Witnesses report they felt as if blood had been sucked from them by the strange rays. More than 30 residents suffer puncture wounds or burns after their encounters. Two islanders reportedly die from their injuries. The Brazilian Air Force sends a task force to the island for three months and it returns with 300 night photos and several motion picture reels. Though a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Jamieson From: Mike Jamieson <mike.jamieson.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 08:34:39 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:12:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Jamieson >From: Lesley Gunter <decogrl.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Victor Martinez's List? >I keep hearing much about this UFO List, moderated by Victor >Martinez. It is apparently where the Serpo postings were first >released or something. When Bill Ryan was on C2C last night he >said the list of members reads like a "who's who" of ufology. So >have any of you ever heard of this List, is anyone a member?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Asians Believe In Little Green Men - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 11:13:08 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:13:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Asians Believe In Little Green Men - Boone >Source: The Asian Pacific Post - Vancouver, British Columbia, >Canada >http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news/article/950.html >Dec 6, 2005 >Asians Believe In Little Green Men From Outer Space >Alien encounters and UFO sightings, along with a fascination >for >outer space, are alive and strong in Asia, according to survey >results released by global market research company Synovate. <snip> Awesome statistics! 80 million potential abductees? That's beyond scary. Yet this data overall validates what I've been saying over the past several years that the big disclosures won't come from the U.S., they'll come from foreign sources. These past two weeks have seen two big shots in foreign government intelligence profess to both sides of the fence. Canadian and Russian officials have chimed in. Pro or con, all that data is relevant as info that has been supressed in favor of, and info that may eradicate fraud should come to light. As long as the foreign news sources don't engage in the twisted and spiteful nonsense ours does, people pro and con should come forward. It's just a matter of time before this becomes a major global issue and the shadows behind the curtain get exposed. I would love to see the Russian and Canadian, French and UK disclosees ( a word? ) debating.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:43:09 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 12:14:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Groff >From: Lesley Gunter <decogrl.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Victor Martinez's List? >I keep hearing much about this UFO List, moderated by Victor >Martinez. It is apparently where the Serpo postings were first >released or something. When Bill Ryan was on C2C last night he >said the list of members reads like a "who's who" of ufology. So >have any of you ever heard of this List, is anyone a member? >I am just trying to confirm that it exists or that it doesn't. Hi Lesley,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Filer's Files #50 - 2005 From: Majorstar.nul Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 11:34:00 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:31:49 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #50 - 2005 Filer's Files #50 -- 2005 George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International December 7, 2005 Webmaster Chuck Warren www.nationalufocenter.com Atlas Missile Shot Down by UFO This week's files cover: Paul Hellyer, Canadian Deputy Prime Minister, says UFOs are real and Parliament should investigate. Mars - Artificial Pyramid Construction, UFO Shoots Down Atlas Missile, and Watch the Sun. In addition, witnesses saw UFOs over Alabama, California, Florida, Nevada, Missouri, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington, and West Virginia. Many witnesses saw UFOs in Argentina, Bulgaria. Canada, Mexico, and South Africa. The purpose of these files is to report weekly the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world. These Files assume that extraterrestrial intelligent life not only exists, but my hypothesis is that of the over one hundred UFOs reported each week, many represent alien craft. The United States Air Force Project conducted a worldwide investigation of UFOs from 1947 until December 1969, when it disbanded its investigative team. We are continuing the investigation. Watch the Sky and the Sun Venus and Mars are very prominent in the night sky this month. Venus is the bright white disk in the southwest sky in early evening, and is the brightest object in the sky. Mars rises over the eastern horizon in the early evening, and continues to climb higher throughout the night. Last month our Sun unleashed its largest solar flare, capping ten 10 days of unprecedented activity. The blast sent billions of tons of super hot gas into space - some of it directed towards Earth causing geomagnetic storms on the Earth. Powerful solar flares are given an "X" designation. There was an X 8 and an X 3 event building to November 8, 2005, flare that went off the scale; researchers say it was "well above X 20", and the most powerful ever recorded. The NOAA Space Weather Center has warned that region 826 on the Sun could be dangerous even though it has imploded and broke up into separate sections. If the separate sections connect it could be one extremely dangerous area. We would see super-mega X-Class flares pouring out that could head toward Earth anytime during the next week. See: http://www.sec.noaa.gov/sxi/current_sxi_4MKcorona.png President Jimmy Carter during his Presidential campaign stated, "If I become President, I'll make every piece of information this country has about UFO sightings available to the public and scientists. I am convinced that UFOs exist because I have seen one." What happened after he was elected? He failed to keep his promise. What stopped him? UFO Shoots Down Atlas Missile Warhead Clark (C. McClelland), former ScO, Space Shuttle Fleet, KSC, Florida 1958 to 19992 writes, I have a VERY important disclosure of a Atlas ICBM being shot down by a UFO! www.stargate-chronicles.com Then Dr Jacobs from Bradley University was on active duty in 1964 as a Lt. was observing, with a telescope, the launch of an Atlas Missile that had been fired from Vandenburg Air Force Base, California over the Pacific Ocean. It was traveling between 11, 000 to 14,000 mph, when a saucer shaped craft entered the frame, it flew into the frame like this, and shot a beam of light at the warhead. Now, remember all this is flying at several thousand miles an hour. This thing shoots another beam of light at the warhead then flies away as it came in. The warhead tumbles out of space. When the lights came on Major Mansmann turned around and says to me , "Were you guys screwing around up there?" I said, "No Sir." He said, "What was that? Dr Jacobs says, "It looked to me like we got a UFO." Below is the confirmation letter from Major Mansmann. Mayan Like Ruins Found on Mars Mars Photo thanks to NASA/JPL PALENQUE -- Deep in the Mexican jungle is a 61 meter tall Mayan Pyramid in ruins in that is very similar to ruins found on Mars by Norman Bryden. It was painted a deep red perhaps to symbolize the Red Planet. At the top of the pyramid is the Temple of Inscriptions that takes its name from hieroglyphic plaques decorating the inside showing king like figures wearing headdresses standing on monster masks. It was built during the second half of the 7th century A.D. during the last decades of Pakal the Great's reign. The upper temple is a wide structure with a stairway which led 65 feet down to a triangular slab. Here is a spacious crypt or tomb of the great King Pacal, who ruled Palenque from 615 to 683. He reigned for 67 years. Pacal's remains lay beneath the 20 foot high roof of a vaulted secret chamber. His corpse was wearing a jade face mask and numerous bracelets that he was buried with 1300 years ago. The pyramid is worthy of comparison with those erected in both Egypt and perhaps on Mars. The crypt was covered by a monolithic slab engraved with a depiction of what appears to be a rocket or perhaps a telescope. Archeologists claim the sarcophagus lid shows Pakal at the moment of his death descending into the Underworld. Above him we see the World Tree, the middle of the Universe, upon which rests the Celestial Bird, representing the heavens. His son Chan- Bahlamis is depicted with six toes next to the Temple of the Sun and near Temple of the Moon. The Mayans had an amazing knowledge of the skies and the lid appears to show the Kings interest in astronomy. If the ruins on Mars are similar to Mayan ruins, we have another reason to believe their was an apparent interaction between the two planets. It also should be noted that Mayan Kings and Pharaohs of Egypt wore crowns similar to those found on Mars. Canadian Deputy Prime Minister - Claims UFOs are Real Michael E. Salla, PhD writes, "Paul Hellyer continues to amaze with his courageous efforts to speak the truth about the UFO phenomenon. Here's a transcript of his recent interview on the Fox News, The Big Story with John Gibson 5:51 PM EST on November 25, 2005. A Greg Jarrett interview of Paul Hellyer.[] JARRETT: It is one of the most important problems facing our planet today. It's an inter-galactic war with aliens. That's what Paul Hellyer, a former Canadian Minister of Defense and Deputy Prime Minister said in a recent September speech. Now he is asking the Canadian Parliament to hold hearings on relations with alien civilizations. Joining me now to explain is Paul Hellyer himself. Thank you very much for being with us.. PAUL HELLYER, Former Canadian Defense Minister: It's a pleasure. JARRETT: Here's what you said: UFO's are as real as the airplanes that fly over your head. Wow, how do you know that? HELLYER: Well, because they are. And they do fly over your head all the time. JARRETT: Well, aren't those airplanes? HELLYER: No, the airplanes fly over your head, but so do vehicles from some other galaxy. JARRETT: How can you tell they're not just airplanes? HELLYER: Well, because a lot of people have seen them, the United States government has one or two, at least, in their possession. And a lot of people have seen some of the wreckage from the crash at Roswell and have worked to re-engineer, back- engineer some of the materials that were found there, for the benefit of the United States industry. JARRETT: Are you telling me you think that American scientists have re-engineered the alien wreckage from that supposed, and I emphasize that world, UFO crash at Roswell, New Mexico, in 1947, to do what? Produce some sort of modern technological marvel? HELLYER: Yes, absolutely, from microchips to particle guns, lasers, all sorts of things that seem like modern marvels and many of them were speeded up immeasurably thanks to the wreckage from the Roswell crash. JARRETT: Have you seen any of that wreckage yourself? HELLYER: No, I haven't, but I'm familiar with people who claim to have seen it, including some in the basement of the White House. JARRETT: Really? Now, have you seen a UFO yourself? HELLYER: No, I haven't. JARRETT: Well, wouldn't you want to see one before you came out publicly with your incredible resume and say, "look, we've got to hold hearings, the aliens are coming." HELLYER: No, because I have read books written by reputable people, including Lieutenant Colonel Corso, who actually saw one of the bodies from the crash at Roswell, and who later, 10 years later, when he was working for the United States Army, was personally responsible for seeking some of the crash material into various industries there, for the benefit of those industries and for the... JARRETT: Let me quote you further, because we're a little short on time. I want to quote you further: The U.S. military -- you can put this up on the screen -- are preparing weapons, which could be used against the aliens, and they could get us into an intergalactic war. The Bush administration has finally agreed to let the military build a forward base on the moon, which will put them in a better position to keep track of the goings and comings of visitors from space, and to shoot at them. HELLYER: Yes, I think it's in the plans. It's been really in the plans for, probably 40 or 50 years, originating with General Trudeau. JARRETT: Mr. Hellyer, I'm out of time here, but there might be a lot of people, or some people, or maybe just one person watching that thinks you're a lunatic. What would you say? HELLYER: I would say they are totally out of the loop, that they haven't taken any trouble to research this subject. And if they had taken the least bit of trouble, that their skepticism would be eliminated and they would be just as certain of their conclusions as I am. JARRETT: All right, Paul Hellyer, former minister of defense, deputy prime minister in Canada. Thanks so much. HELLYER: Do a little research on your own. JARRETT: Oh, I will. Coming up next, why some of you aren't going to the movies this much anymore. Could it be because of Hollywood's left-coast politics on and off the screen? Stick around. Thanks to www.exopolitics.org Source:http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=3DUserD isplayFullDocument&orgId=3D574&topicId=3D100007214&docId=3Dl:330993162 &start=3D10 I urge you to contact your elected representatives to ask for an end to UFO secrecy Alabama White Round Disk PELHAM --I was on a street playing football and I noticed this object when it popped out of nowhere on October 20, 2005. I thought it was a UFO and I always wanted to see one. It zoomed real fast and I couldn't explain and I lost it because it went so fast. Thanks to MUFON-CMS http://www.mufon.com/ California Woman Takes Photos of UFO AGOURA HILLS -- On November 27, 2005, the witness noticed a bright light to the northwest at 6:30 PM, and found her car would not start. She grabbed her camera and took several photos because of its unusual brightness. She is familiar with satellites and bright planets and this was very different. The witness described the light as cigar shaped with an aura and she saw additional lights within. The witness took photos of the phenomenon two consecutive nights; at 5:38 PM, with three witnesses on the 28th. The light was moving slowly towards the north-northwest. You can view the photos taken by the witness at the following website: http://www.bizouphoto.com/ufo.html Investigator's Notes: The witness used a Canon EOSD60 digital camera to take the photos from her location 30 miles west of Los Angeles. She took long exposures (30 seconds to two minute shutter speeds). Some of the time over exposure or streaking is likely due to movement of the camera and not movement of the light. I have looked at satellite charts and found no bright visible satellites in the area at the time of the sighting. The International Space Station was visible in the early morning hours. Thanks to Brian Vike and Gloria Abrar Florida Orange Colored Star DUBLIN -- The witness was traveling home from work traveling west on US 80 at 9:30 PM, on December 1, 2005, when he noticed an orange colored star that seemed unusually bright. It did not blink like an airplane and there were no other colored lights. I watched it for a while and it seemed to move laterally a bit, which I dismissed as my movement around curves. I began to mark the star in relationship to the trees that lined the road. The object clearly was moving laterally as well as vertically. I observed the movement for about a minute or so. The object suddenly flew to the north and went completely out of sight very quickly. I looked for another 20 minutes and never saw it again. Thanks to MUFON-CMS http://www.mufon.com/ Maryland Two Ghost Like UFOs JESSUP - My father and I were out in the backyard on November 4, 2005, at 1:30 AM, with his telescope looking at Mars since its so close. We were looking also at Orion's Belt and I saw a bright light out of the corner of my eye. My Dad saw a streaking object faster than anything we have ever seen. Faster even than shooting stars but, these were big over the size and proportion of a B-2 stealth bomber flying in unison with each other. Then, we lost site of them because of their speed and deviation from a straight course. If it was a plane it would have banked left, but these just curved at amazing speed to the left. We were defiantly freaked out and I started to shake. Jessup is 30 miles north of Washington D.C. They moved like a ghost flies in a horror movie. Thanks to MUFON-CMS http://www.mufon.com/ Missouri Triangular Shaped Craft KANSAS CITY -- While traveling south on I-435 where it intersects 63rd Street, I observed an object in the east, which appeared to either be hovering or moving very, very slowly on November 23, 2005, at 10 PM. When it first caught my eye, it had four lights, two brighter ones side by side, with two others directly below. As I proceeded south, the object got closer and the lights changed their orientation relative to a triangular craft with four lights with one light on the end of each wing. There was one in front, and one in the middle. The object seemed very low, and its slow movement made it seem like it commanded the sky. Thanks to Brian Vike www.hbccufo.com New Jersey -- F- 18e Hornets Chase UFO TURNERSVILLE - Evelyn Galson phoned to say, "I was taking photos with her digital camera of F-18s buzzing our house, and took numerous images over the next several minutes." I've never seen fighter aircraft fly over my house, much less so low. When I looked at the images on my computer, I noticed a small black mark just above the roof of my house that was very strange looking. The UFO was taken five minutes after the F18's flew by, but they flew in a wide circle and returned later. "When I enlarged the UFO it appeared to be a double disc with blue haze underneath it." Thanks to Evelyn Galson Editor's Note: Sometimes photos seem to show the UFO in two locations. Photos taken at a fraction of a second show the UFO climbing or descending at tremendous speeds. There may be only one disc and the camera is picking up the movement. HAZLET -- I was heading out of my house about 5:45 PM, with my husband and one of my children on December 3, 2005, and we noticed a very bright star like object just staying perfectly still. I live near to the ocean and questioned it being an actual star as the size was so large and bright. This object had the attention of four other aircraft in the sky as they flew around it and up to it. My guess was one was a military plane because it was small and quite fast and ONLY three red colored lights. It was shining a bright spotlight at this object. This aircraft flew towards and then away from the object heading south while still having its light shining from the rear. This struck me as odd. They were flying at an altitude about 20,000 feet or more over the Atlantic Ocean between Staten Island and New Jersey. I took about 4-5 photos with a plain film camera. Some of the aircraft with the red lights and also of the object. At about 5:55 PM, I got in my vehicle and drove toward the water, The moon was very low in the horizon, and the object was hovering right above it. Thanks to MUFON-CMS http://www.mufon.com/ Nevada More Unknown Object's LAS VEGAS -- The sightings are still continuing for me, although not as frequent. On November 9, 2005 at 1:30 PM, I was in my backyard doing some gardening when I noticed a small star-like white object high in the southeast. As I observed it through my binoculars, it would seem to disappear and reappear in different areas of the sky. This continued for over an hour! As I put the binoculars up to my eyes I saw what appeared to be individual white objects oval in shape with what looked like a dome on top. They were in a straight row one behind the other, except that the first forward moving three were slightly staggered. I counted a total of twelve. When I first looked through the binoculars, I saw the previous red object moving down and away from the twelve. I watched intently as the line of objects moved over my house heading south. As they passed overhead the three objects on the tail end suddenly moved down and accelerated to below the forward moving end and turned on edge appearing round and formed in a triangle shape with one at the top and two on the bottom. Seconds later they moved up and seemed to almost touch the others and joined the formation as the others moved to allow them to re-enter the line. Thanks to Scott North Carolina Flying Triangle CAMP LEJUENE -- On October 23, 2005, hunting on Camp Lejuene, just after a deer kill at 7:25 PM, I saw four lights in the sky like a low flying plane. There was no sound and the lights did not have any beam that you could see, aircraft was about 900 feet, but traveled slower than helicopters. When this thing was overhead it had a triangle with a circle in it all glowing faintly red. It also had some white lights and some faintly glowing white areas (see my diagram). I even took three pictures. Then 15 minutes later it came back! Or there were two of them on the same flight path and speed. I am a Marine SSGT. and have seen all aircraft fly at all speeds and cannot explain this, because it flew too slow. I work on F- 18s and CH-53s. There was some faint turbo jet noise when the aircraft was about a 45 degree angle from me. Thanks to MUFON- CMS http://www.mufon.com/ Rhode Island - Object Travels Down NEW HAVEN -- At about 3:19 AM, early in the morning of October 27, 2005, my friend and I were driving northeast on I 95 between New Haven CT. and Providence, RI. we were both looking straight ahead when a bit to the right something lit up, traveled directly downward, and then was gone again after a little more or less than a second. I thought it disappeared well before it hit the tree line. Its speed was extraordinary and covered a few thousand feet in a moment. I was immediately certain that it had too much downward velocity to be a falling object. It would have had to accelerate downwards to reach that speed, which means something either from outside the atmosphere or with rather impressive engines. The only thing that makes sense to me is if a meteorite suddenly lit up. My friend thought it was blue, and I thought it was white. It reminded both of us of a shooting star but we could not account for its angle or proximity.MUFON Sighting Reports Thanks to MUFON-CMS South Carolina UFO Filmed SUMMERVILLE -- Hello Major Filer, "After skywatching for several years, I finally captured another strange object on film on December 1, 2005, from 5:30 to 7 PM. I managed to film almost 50 minutes of it. Ever since I filmed what seemed to be a silver sphere with an offset of black / dense portholes marked across it, I had always made it a habit to keep my camera near by. It was late afternoon and getting dark when I noticed a ' bright star ' in a clearing. Ten minutes later, it was partially out of view by the tree branches. I dropped more pieces of wood in the fire - and the ' bright star ' was now back out in the clearing. I went for my camera and zoomed on the object and sure enough, it was no star and I kept my camera on manual focus. I ran in and got my tripod and when I came back it was still there. The skies were clear and it was a brilliant array of colors that beaded from this object. The following evening a similar object appeared pretty close to the same location. Here are the links to 3 brief clips to give you an idea of what I saw . http://www.roguesighting.com/FOOTAGE/SC_UFO_Dec01_05.wmv http://www.roguesighting.com/FOOTAGE/SC_UFO_Dec1st05.wmv http://www.roguesighting.com/FOOTAGE/SC_UFO_Dec2.wmv Texas Circular Object & Jets Passing DALLAS -- While coming home from work this week, my wife was driving east on Northwest Highway when some lights caught her eye and she looked up into the sky to see the bottom of a circular object on November 21, 2005, between 2:30-3:00 PM. It had red strobe lights, kind of merged with white, that were going off around the perimeter. She noticed two military fighter jets approaching the object and maneuver so that one jet would pass on each side of the object. As they approached, the object shot straight up into the sky and disappeared. The jets would have been scrambled from Carswell AFB in Ft. Worth. That would have meant the object was in the area for some time. The whole encounter was less than five minutes. The jets circled back and departed. Thanks to Brian Vike www.hbccufo.com Virginia Man Saw and Touched Two UFOs Avro Canada Disc at Ft Eustis, Virginia Aviation Musuem NORFOLK? -- The witness who lives in France reported. 1. Visiting an Army base on May 10, 1980, with my friend, a colonel (retired now) The closest Army Base is Ft. Monroe. 2. Both were exposed on a little central place 3. I thought it was a sort of joke 4. Both were round and flat; like saucers indeed. They seemed to be made of aluminum and had a kind of Plexiglas dome 5. I walked to the objects, looked in them and touched them 6. I was called back (was ordered to stand back) but most important: I was told they had actually flown! So, I believe everybody who says to have seen an UFO, only: was it extraterrestrial? Thanks to MUFON-CMS http://www.mufon.com/ Editor's note: Only one Avro VZ-9 Avrocar is believed to be at Ft. Eustis Aviation Museum. The other one is at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum. Washington Orbs and UFOs ECETI News -- James Gilliland writes, "People often ask me how we can get the pictures of orbs and UFOs." It is quite simple, all it takes is pure intent and the desire to aid in the awakening and healing process. This vibration attracts the ultradimensionals and orbs. Many UFOs are not physical and the orbs are often projections of ETs which serve as probes to gather or send information. When out of body they can travel as a light sphere. There are also orbs upon close inspection which have the faces of masters, discarnates, animals, and elementals. Most are higher dimensional beings. There could be a whole study on orbs using special cameras yet digital is usually all you need. As far as the nay sayers who say it is water spots, rain, snow and dust in some cases they are right, yet in most they are incorrect. These orbs come in every size shape and color. Some are taken from a distance moving through the trees with the shadow of branches on them. Some are taken indoors which eliminates rain or snow while others are taken with emulsion film. We have taken pictures of orbs with the flash and without, in the daytime and at night. Every disclaimer does not add up when it comes to the orb phenomena. One of the most powerful arguments is when we go out to our field with clear skies and no precipitation, the first photos show nothing. When we focus on calling them and sending out love through song, chanting or toning the whole field is filled with orbs. When I walk out in the field and meditate I literally disappear due to the orbs surrounding me. There are pictures of this phenomena at www.eceti.org I saw a man who boasted to be very enlightened and a spiritual leader. He walked out in the field screaming a Native American chant and literally cleared the field and the entire area of orbs. They seem to find ego, especially male ego very distasteful. When another Native American went out into the field with his children and hugged them the orbs returned. The ultradimensionals and orbs are trying to tell us something. Drop the pride, the arrogance and become like a child and they will come. Hmmmm? Didn't another master say something similar? You must become like children to enter the kingdom of heaven? The nay sayers wonder why all they get is dust and water spots. I wonder if there are orbs at the White House? If love is a prerequisite the orb hunters will most likely come up empty other than some shadowy figures lurking about. Thanks to James Gilliland West Virginia UFO crash? ELLENBORO -- I was driving East on US Route 50, heading home from work around 8 PM eastern time on November 6, 2005.. An unidentified object fell from the sky and crashed in a wooded area along the highway near Alkire Rd. I noticed the object because of the red light trailing behind it, it looked like fire. The object wasn't completely visible and I did not have any idea what it was. The object descended into a wooded area and a bright red flash of light lit up the area for just a couple of seconds. The hair on the back of my neck stood up, and I got chills all over. I lost sight of the object as it crashed into the woods. Thanks to MUFON-CMS MUFON Sighting Reports Bulgaria UFO Caught on Video BLAGOEVGRAD -- An alien unidentified flying object is spotted hovering next to a building and video is taken of a disc. http://www.lookatentertainment.com/v/v-1783.htm Canada UFO Buzzes Car OYAMA, B.C. -- The witness was driving north on Highway 97 at about 90 Km/hr, on November 5, 2005. The witness states, "This light passed me about 500 feet up and on my right, just above the shoreline of Kalamlka Lake at 9:15 p.m." In about seven seconds it disappeared in the distance (about ten miles). There were no flashing lights like aircraft are expected to have, and there was no jet engine sound. It traveled in a straight line, but navigated between two hill peaks and was gaining altitude as well. There were clouds in the sky, but it was in clear sky for the seven seconds that I watched it and then it disappeared into a cloud in the distance (about ten miles away). There was no tail or trail in the object's path. Thanks to Brian Vike www.hbccufo.com COMOX, B.C. -- On November 14, 2005, - about 6:15 PM, UFO-type balls of light zinged in and out of the clouds accompanied by a very slow-moving Aurora aircraft at CFB Comox, BC. The objects moved up, down, diagonally and laterally. They blinked in and out, disappeared and reappeared. There were at least five objects, possibly six or more. Clouds obscured the field of vision. These objects would burst through the cloud cover and move around, disappearing and reappearing. The Aurora surveillance aircraft was circling the area extremely slowly, almost like hovering (which is odd for the Aurora). The incident went on for at least ten minutes...but the balls of light were difficult to capture on film. Photos of the incident are currently unavailable but may be in a few hours once my camera batteries have charged. Thanks to Brian Vike www.hbccufo.com Mexico Multiple Objects and Shapes ? GUADALAJARA JALISCO -- I have taken "extremely and interesting" photos of most important UFO flotilla on November 25, 2005, at 2 PM. I was driving my car and I saw 40 or more orbs moving in the sky, so I stopped and took videos and photos. The UFO's were moving from southwest to northeast and their velocity was varied. They had metallic texture in black and different shapes. They moved in groups and sometimes changed their shape. They were near the center of town. I didn't see any aircraft in the area or any exhaust coming from the objects. Photos are =C2=A9 2005 Oscar R.Franco 2005. To view photos and video footage: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D35 43 Thanks to Brian Vike. Mexico UFOs Seen in the Skies TAMPICO ALTO -- Ana Luisa Cid and Alberto Garcia write, "Police officers and reporters from Diario de Tampico Milenio newspaper were witnesses to the presence of an unidentified flying object in Mexican skies". A light resembling a star was seen in Tampico Alto, Veracruz. on December 5, 2005. Alberto Garcia describes the light as standing out as a very large star, and that its brightness forced everyone to see it. Suddenly, to everyone's astonishment, the luminous object moved a few meters and vanished, as though entering a crack in the sky. Also present were elements of the Tampico Alto Police under the command of Cmdr. Agustin Rivas Hernandez and Matias Castillo Altamirano, responsible for Emergency Services in that municipality. Mr. Garcia says, "The alleged star remained still. However, upon being observed, what it appeared to be waiting for, it simply moved and vanished, as though it had been erased. It wasn't a shooting star. We also saw some of those." "This reporter, Victor, two policemen and a third person, agreed upon observing its brightness, "look, that one's shinier than the rest". Suddenly, the "star" inexplicably moved a little. Our jaws dropped, and if it is possible to be even more surprised, we did it, because it suddenly vanished...right after the photograph was taken." Upon interviewing some of the locals, they agreed that UFO sightings are quite frequent, explaining that the "ships" hover above electric light posts, rock themselves on the wires and even shoot sparks, according to eyewitness accounts. Translation (c) 2005. Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU). South Africa -- Photos NYSNA HEADS -- It's me Cecilia. I'm sending you a photo my Husband took in January last year in Knysna. He was on Knysna Head when he took this. When we got back town and had the film developed we saw this object that I'm sure is a UFO. I made it big on the computer and saw its very round with a perfectly black round spot in the middle underneath. [] Thank so much for the wonderful e-mails with the wonderful pictures. I hope more will come. I look very forward to hearing from you. Your UFO friend - Cecilia Filer's Files: Worldwide Reports of UFO Sightings Major George A. Filer USAF (Ret) & David E. Twichell are happy to announce the release of our new book. If you like Filer's Files newsletter and his monthly report in the MUFON Journal, you'll love the book! It is a collection of some of the most thought provoking UFO sighting and abduction reports from around the world by average citizens, trained observers, astronauts and U.S. presidents. This is a review of many of the best cases in the last several years. The book is $13.95 plus $3.05 tax & shipping Send check to address below or Paypal Donate to Filer's Files to receive CD Your donations do make a difference in my ability to bring you the latest news! So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. George A. Filer has been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Annual Membership is only $25 for 52 weekly intelligence reports. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055. You can also go to: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, Master Charge,or American Express. REAL ESTATE Relocation Help! Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help you relocate, buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at: Majorstar @ aol.com Join MUFON! Become a MUFON member today! Benefits of membership include a subscription to the monthly UFO Journal which contains current investigations, sightings reports, articles by world-renowned researchers and more. To join now, click here. Filer's Files is copyrighted 2005 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Hunt For The Skinwalker From: Colm Kelleher <colm_kelleher.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:28:57 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:33:57 -0500 Subject: Hunt For The Skinwalker For more than fifty years, the bizarre events at a remote Utah ranch have ranged from the perplexing to the wholly terrifying. Vanishing and mutilated cattle. Unidentified Flying Objects. The appearance of huge, otherworldly creatures. Invisible objects emitting magnetic fields with the power to spark a cattle stampede. Flying orbs of light with dazzling maneuverability and lethal consequences. For one family, life on the Skinwalker Ranch had become a life under siege by an unknown enemy or enemies. Nothing else could explain the horrors that surrounded them - perhaps science could. Leading a first-class team of research scientists on a disturbing odyssey into the unknown, Colm Kelleher spent hundreds of days and nights on the Skinwalker property and experienced firsthand many of its haunting mysteries. With investigative reporter George Knapp - the only journalist allowed to witness and document the team's work - Kelleher chronicles in superb detail the spectacular happenings the team observed personally, and the theories of modern physics behind the phenomena. Far from the coldly detached findings one might expect, their conclusions are utterly hair-raising in their implications. Opening a door to the unseen world around us, Hunt for the Skinwalker is a clarion call to expand our vision far beyond what we know. "Hunt for the Skinwalker is a well told and true account of the amazing strangeness discovered by a scientific team doing investigations for the National Institute of Discovery Science. Reading this account was like hearing, word for word, for the second time the reports of the field investigators." - Edgar Mitchell, Sc.D. Astronaut, NIDS SAC "Few books have ever disturbed our view of reality as much as John Keel's The Mothman Prophecies; that is until we finished Colm Kelleher and George Knapp's Hunt for the Skinwalker. This is one very disturbing read... it is also important... it will open your mind to the almost infinite possibilities of what awaits the human race." - Don and Vicki Ecker, UFO Magazine See: http://www.huntfortheskinwalker.com Colm A. Kelleher, Ph.D. is the author of the national bestseller Brain Trust, a groundbreaking expose of the hidden connection between Mad Cow and Alzheimer's Disease. He is currently a senior research scientist in the biotechnology sector. Following his Ph.D. in biochemistry from the University of Dublin, Trinity College in 1983, Kelleher worked at the Ontario Cancer Institute, the Terry Fox Cancer Research Laboratory, and the National Jewish Center for Immunology. For nearly a decade, he worked as project manager and team leader at a private research institute in Las Vegas, using forensic science methodology to unravel scientific anomalies. George Knapp is a eight-time Emmy Award--winning journalist whose reporting on Nevada's infamous Area 51 military base was selected by UPI as Best Individual Achievement by a Reporter (1989). Other awards include the Associated Press's Mark Twain Award for newswriting and the Edward R. Murrow Award for Investigative Reporting. An anchor and reporter for the CBS affiliate KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, he also writes an award-winning weekly column for a Las Vegas newspaper.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Stefula From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:20:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:36:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Stefula >From: Lesley Gunter <decogrl.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Victor Martinez's List? >I keep hearing much about this UFO List, moderated by Victor Martinez. It is apparently where the Serpo postings were first released or something. When Bill Ryan was on C2C last night he said the list of members reads like a "who's who" of ufology. So have any of you ever heard of this List, is anyone a member? >I am just trying to confirm that it exists or that it doesn't. Lesley,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Nick Pope Interview From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 19:58:56 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:37:11 -0500 Subject: Nick Pope Interview UFO Review's Stuart Miller has conducted an interview with me which has now been posted on Phenomena's website: http://phenomena.cinescape.com/ This is the most extensive interview I've given for some years, and covers the 25th anniversary of the Rendlesham Forest incident, alien abductions, crop circles, the relationship between science fiction and ufology, and much more. Best wishes,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:17:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:53:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - White >From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:20:41 -0500 >Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? <snip> >>I am just trying to confirm that it exists or that it doesn't. >Lesley, >Yes, it's for real. >Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 UFO ROUNDUP Is Temporarily On Hiatus From: John Hayes <John.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:24:15 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:56:22 -0500 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Is Temporarily On Hiatus Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan.nul> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Is Temporarily On Hiatus Dear Readers: You may be wondering why UFO ROUNDUP is no longer appearing weekly. If so, here's what is happening with the newsletter. In early October, due to economic circumstances in Duluth (namely, Northwest Airlines laid off 600 maintenance repairmen at the jetliner repair facility, which pretty much made it impossible for your editor to find a job during his regular employer's off-season), I was obliged to move back to New England. Once I arrived back here in southeastern Massachusetts, I set about trying to get back online, only to learn that my computer was obsolete and its software was out-of-date, and I could no longer access the Web. With help from Roundup correspondents in this area, I was able to get out a few sporadic issues. However, because my computer is a 1995 VTECH 486DX and was using Windows 3.1, AOL Technical Support said there was no way I could get back online. A friend suggested that I was "trying to compete in the Indianapolis 500 by driving a vintage 1925 Model T Ford." Fortunately, I was able to find employment here after a diligent search. But I won't be able to buy a new computer for weeks or perhaps months. I thought maybe one of our readers could help us out here. If you are planning to get rid of your old computer (and it's using Windows 98 software), UFO Roundup would gladly accept it as a donation. [Note: This is the minimum specification that Joe can use, if you can help out with a newer operating system it will be more compatible with modern software -- John @ UFOINFO] You can ship it to this surface address: UFO Roundup, c/o Joseph Trainor, 9 Foley Street, Attleboro, Massachusetts, USA 02703-1805. [Note: If you can donate a computer it might be best to write to Joe first, just in case he has several offers - John @ UFOINFO] I hate to ask favors of our loyal readers, mainly because we've been able to get by "out of pocket" and with donations from a few of our readers (and your assistance is greatly appreciated, believe me!) for the past decade. Adverse circumstances have forced us into hiatus before, but we've always been able to bounce back. Hopefully, we can do the same this time, too, and bring UFO Roundup back online. The UFO situation never seems to take any time off. Just two days ago, witnesses in Western Australia saw a giant silver sphere entering Earth's atmosphere east of Perth, traveling in the midst of a Taurid meteor shower. There have been recent sightings in Virginia, Suffolk and Wales, as well. The sooner your editor can get back online, the sooner we can get our 10-year-old "Saucer CNN" back to covering the UFO scene. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Even if you cannot provide any help, please share in our prayers that this forced hiatus will be a short one. Joseph Trainor Editor UFO ROUNDUP E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/submit/sightings.shtml -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Asians Believe In Little Green Men - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:53:19 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:58:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Asians Believe In Little Green Men - Hatch >Source: The Asian Pacific Post - Vancouver, BC, Canada >http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news/article/950.html >Dec 6, 2005 >Asians Believe In Little Green Men From Outer Space >Alien encounters and UFO sightings, along with a fascination for outer space, are alive and strong in Asia, according to survey results released by global market research company Synovate. Please note: An interesting article on Asian interest in space, the possibility of life elsewhere etc., where 'little green men' are _nowhere_ mentioned. Not by the survey takers, nor the Chinese, Indians, Koreans, Indonesians... nobody at all in fact. What shows up in the title and byline?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: 60 Years Since Flight 19 Disappeared - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:55:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 17:59:33 -0500 Subject: Re: 60 Years Since Flight 19 Disappeared - White >60 Years On, Loss Of Us Navy Planes Over Bermuda Still >Unexplained <snip> >But he admitted what exactly happened to Flight 19 remains a >mystery. "We searched everything, every little island, >absolutely no trace of anything, which was unbelievable." Wouldn't at least one of the inflatable rafts and/or Mae West life vests insured something was found? In a 3-place Navy bomber, surely there was over water survival gear? Even if some of the aircraft had broken up and gone under instead of ditching upright, at least one should have had the chance to deploy ocean survival gear. Ditching procedure includes sliding open (or jettisoning) canopies before contact with the water. And Dilbert Dunker training of Naval airmen gives them a fair chance of getting out even if the aircraft inverts on contact with the water. Of course, some researchers insist there is a real possibility of huge upwellings of thawing methane deposits which could make the water so bubbly things couldn't float, but that isn't likely
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Mystery Of UFO Research Puzzles Scientists - From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 15:58:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:02:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Mystery Of UFO Research Puzzles Scientists - >Mystery Of UFO Research Puzzles Scientists >Some people in Guiyang's Baiyun District believe they were >visited by aliens in 1994. <snip> >An adjacent truck factory reported similar enigmas: steel pipes >were strangely broken; a huge truck was found more than 20 >metres away from its original place; an employee on the night >shift said he had been pulled up in the air by an "unknown" >force.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:08:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:03:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Hatch >From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 10:43:09 -0600 >Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>From: Lesley Gunter <decogrl.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Victor Martinez's List? >>I keep hearing much about this UFO List, moderated by Victor >>Martinez. It is apparently where the Serpo postings were first >>released or something. When Bill Ryan was on C2C last night he >>said the list of members reads like a "who's who" of ufology. So >>have any of you ever heard of this List, is anyone a member? >>I am just trying to confirm that it exists or that it doesn't. >There is a website at http://www.serpo.org/ Terry: I visited the page and found no List. Not even any mention of a List. If I heard parts of the same show last night, the people of Serpa (?) like music and dance.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:10:19 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:05:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Hall >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:17:51 -0500 >Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Stefula >>From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:20:41 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>>I am just trying to confirm that it exists or that it doesn't. >>Lesley, >>Yes, it's for real. >>Joe >Sooo... how does one join it? >Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:11:16 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:06:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Hatch >From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:20:41 -0500 >Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>From: Lesley Gunter <decogrl.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: Victor Martinez's List? >>I keep hearing much about this UFO List, moderated by Victor >>Martinez. It is apparently where the Serpo postings were first >>released or something. When Bill Ryan was on C2C last night he >>said the list of members reads like a "who's who" of ufology. So >>have any of you ever heard of this List, is anyone a member? >>I am just trying to confirm that it exists or that it doesn't. >Yes, it's for real. >Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 7 Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA - Nelson From: Jay Nelson <jnelson.nul> Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:59:25 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 18:10:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA - Nelson Listarians, I've noticed something that may add to the question of "what does director Steven Spielberg really know about ETs?" This being Pearl Harbor Day, I took out the disk last night of one of my favorite movies, Steven Spielberg's sadly underappreciated comedy 1941, about post-Pearl Harbor hysteria, made in 1979. This time I just viewed an added featurette, "The Making of 1941" (1995). In this, Spielberg says that he agreed to make the movie while he was working on Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (1977). He, Bob Gale, and Robert Zemekis, the writers, recounted how they reworked the screenplay during the production of CE3K in an office in the very hanger where Spielberg was filming the mothership scenes. 1941, as the writers acknowledge, was based in a large part upon the Battle of Los Angeles. As you all know this was an incident that occurred on February 25, 1942, when lights over Los Angeles were thought to be a number of incoming Japanese bombers. There was a blackout and a lot of antiaircraft fire was expended, but no Japanese planes were shot down. The Army defended the action, though soon it was attributed to 'jittery nerves' when no wreckage was forthcoming. In 1974, a memo was revealed that Chief of Staff General Marshall wrote to President Roosevelt, saying it was real and that as many as 15 aircraft might have been involved. Curiously, neither Spielberg nor the writers make _any_ mention of UFOs whatsoever in their discussion of the 'air raid'. Not even a single joke. Yet they were working on the script while literally surrounded by Close Encounters! How could it be that they didn't make a connection? Wasn't the information out there by the late 70s? It must have been at least by the time the featurette was made in 1995, it seems to me. Maybe he didn't mention it because he was tired of the subject or wary of being pigeon-holed, though his later projects show his deep, ongoing interest in all things alien. But it just seems weird to me that Spielberg would go directly from making arguably the greatest UFO movie of all time to one that essentially debunked the biggest sighting of the modern era, and appear blithely clueless about the link all the while. There has been an apocryphal statement attributed to Spielberg before in relation to CE3K. Does anyone know of any statement, positive or negative, that Spielberg ever made about UFOs in relation to the movie 1941?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 8 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 17:29:59 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:30:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Clark >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:10:19 +0000 >Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:17:51 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Stefula >>>From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:20:41 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>Sooo... how does one join it? >Basically, says the Red Queen, by believing 50 impossible >things before breakfast. What it reminds me of - though of course the stuff on the site is lacking in its literary style, intellectual heft, and sheer eerie charm - is the great Jorge Luis Borges short story Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius (1941). You can find it on pp. 68-81 of his Collected Fictions (Penguin, 1998). If you're inclined to believe in the existence of planet Serpo, I would venture to say
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 8 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Haith From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 00:21:55 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 09:36:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Haith >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:11:16 -0800 >Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:20:41 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>>From: Lesley Gunter <decogrl.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 03:29:45 -0800 (PST) >>>Subject: Victor Martinez's List? >>>I keep hearing much about this UFO List, moderated by Victor >>>Martinez. It is apparently where the Serpo postings were first >>>released or something. When Bill Ryan was on C2C last night he >>>said the List of members reads like a "who's who" of ufology. So >>>have any of you ever heard of this List, is anyone a member? >>>I am just trying to confirm that it exists or that it doesn't. >>Yes, it's for real. >Fine Joe. What's the URL of the actual page showing the List? Larry and Enquirees, Victor runs his List from web tv somewhere and he just adds names willy-nilly in the carbon copies panel cos technically the system won't let him enter the email addresses in blind copies - much to many members' annoyance. To get on his massive list one assumes you join the discussion or write to him at victorgm.nul But beware. His List is like the Hotel California - you can never leave! And personally I mostly find it inane and pathetic - especially since this Serpo B-movie nonsense. His is constantly in dispute with Jack Sarfatti - who isn't? - who also has a similar makeshift 'please get me off' type List.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 8 Re: Asians Believe In Little Green Men - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 01:14:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:06:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Asians Believe In Little Green Men - Ledger >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 13:53:19 -0800 >Subject: Re: Asians Believe In Little Green Men >>Source: The Asian Pacific Post - Vancouver, BC, Canada >>http://www.asianpacificpost.com/news/article/950.html >>Dec 6, 2005 >>Asians Believe In Little Green Men From Outer Space >>Alien encounters and UFO sightings, along with a fascination >>for outer space, are alive and strong in Asia, according to >>survey results released by global market research company >>Synovate. >Please note: >An interesting article on Asian interest in space, the >possibility of life elsewhere etc., where 'little green men' >are _nowhere_ mentioned. Not by the survey takers, nor the >Chinese, Indians, Koreans, Indonesians... nobody at all in >fact. >What shows up in the title and byline? >"Asians believe in LGM from outer space." >Hey. This is journalism. Write in and complain about it Larry. That's what I did.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 8 Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA - Cammack From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 07:52:08 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:08:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA - Cammack >From: Jay Nelson <jnelson.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:59:25 -0700 >Subject: Spielberg and the Battle of LA >I've noticed something that may add to the question of "what >does director Steven Spielberg really know about ETs?" >This being Pearl Harbor Day, I took out the disk last night of >one of my favorite movies, Steven Spielberg's sadly >underappreciated comedy 1941, about post-Pearl Harbor hysteria, >made in 1979. This time I just viewed an added featurette, "The >Making of 1941" (1995). >In this, Spielberg says that he agreed to make the movie while >he was working on Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (1977). He, >Bob Gale, and Robert Zemekis, the writers, recounted how they >reworked the screenplay during the production of CE3K in an >office in the very hanger where Spielberg was filming the >mothership scenes. >1941, as the writers acknowledge, was based in a large part upon >the Battle of Los Angeles. As you all know this was an incident >that occurred on February 25, 1942, when lights over Los Angeles >were thought to be a number of incoming Japanese bombers. There >was a blackout and a lot of antiaircraft fire was expended, but >no Japanese planes were shot down. >The Army defended the action, though soon it was attributed to >'jittery nerves' when no wreckage was forthcoming. In 1974, a >memo was revealed that Chief of Staff General Marshall wrote to >President Roosevelt, saying it was real and that as many as 15 >aircraft might have been involved. <snip> It seems to me that WWII historians, using Japanese sources, would know whether the Japanese got as far as California during
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 8 Moon UFOs & LTPs From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:56:09 +0000 (GMT) Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:56:03 -0500 Subject: Moon UFOs & LTPs Remember those old white blob moving UFO's on or near the Moon and the flash's of light etc seen through telescopes? Well here they are fully explained for you by recent NASA back research of data from instruments left there in the late 1960/70's; http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/07dec_moonstorms.htm?list151990 or http://tinyurl.com/c42fc
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 8 Mysterious Red Light In Icelandic Sky From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:28:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:28:31 -0500 Subject: Mysterious Red Light In Icelandic Sky Source: Iceland Review - Reykjavik http://tinyurl.com/9vxdo 12/06/2005 Mysterious Red Light In Skies Above Eyjar And Miklaholt Morgunbladid reports that a farmer in the county of Eyjar and Miklaholt notified police authorities last night of a mysterious red light in the sky. The police are certain that the red light was not an emergency flare. According to Morgunbladid the police
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 8 The Call That Is Important To Us All From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:33:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:33:48 -0500 Subject: The Call That Is Important To Us All Source: The Australian - Sydney, NSW, Australia http://tinyurl.com/dphd9 December 08, 2005 The Call That Is Important To Us All Leigh Dayton Science Writer Earthlings haven't yet heard from ET, but leading questers for cosmic company are getting ready to take the call... just in case. They've established an international committee to set the etiquette for inter-galactic contact. And Sydney-based cosmologist Paul Davies just took on the top job. "We need to get the protocol correct and clarified," noted Professor Davies, with Macquarie University's Australian Centre for Astrobiology. "If ET called tonight we'd be in a bit of a muddle about it all," he added, speaking prior to his first meeting as head of the Post-Detection Science and Technology Taskgroup. The body is part of the International Academy of Astronautics and was founded by radio-astronomer Jill Tarter of the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) Institute in California. "We want the correct details about the discovery event and any interpretation made about it to get out there," commented Dr Tarter, in Australia for a lecture tour supported by Sydney University's Centre for Human Aspects of Science and Technology. According to Dr Tarter - whose SETI exploits were portrayed by Jodie Foster in the 1997 film Contact - if a signal from ET is detected it must be verified quickly and the news spread widely to ensure it's not "co-opted" by interest groups or politicians. "Another caveat is that (scientists) will not transmit a reply until there's a global consensus about whether to reply and what should be said," Dr Tarter claimed. And as Professor Davies noted, that's a contentious matter: "People have Hollywood movie fears that ET will come here, take over, eat us, turn us into pets or eliminate us". Further, it's not clear who speaks for Planet Earth. Dr Tarter failed to persuade the United Nations to take on the responsibility, so Professor Davies has another plan. "At some stage we'll have to deal with governments," he acknowledged. "That's why I'm toying with the idea of including (on the taskforce) an elder statesman - Gorbechov or possibly Clinton - sombody with no (current) political agenda, but who knows the political process." Both Dr Tarter and professor Davies are confident that they and their colleagues can find answers and create guidelines. They're not so sure they'll need to use them. What are the odds of finding ET? "I don't know the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 8 Is Interstellar Spaceflight Possible? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:42:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:42:59 -0500 Subject: Is Interstellar Spaceflight Possible? Source: PhysOrg.com - Tilburg, The Netherlands http://www.physorg.com/news8817.html Interstellar Spaceflight: Is It Possible? by Chuck Rahls With current space travel limited to just a few robotic probes visiting nearby planets, how realistic is it to think about reaching the nearest stars? For the short term, not very =96 especially when we speak of manned missions. But the long term - 50 or even 100 years - chances are good mankind will have missions, unmanned to start with, traveling to stars in our galactic neighborhood. Actually, we already have space craft venturing into interstellar space. Pioneer and Voyager probes, 2 each, have reached the sun=92s escape velocity and are now forever outward bound. The fastest, Voyager 1, is traveling at 62,000 kilometers per hour (39,000 mph). Even at that tremendous speed it=92s painfully slow when interstellar distances are involved. Voyager 1 would take over 17,000 years to get Proxima Centuari, our nearest neighbor at 4.22 light years distance. With a theoretical speed limit imposed by Einstein's Theory of Relativity at 1,079,252,848.8 km/h, or the speed of light, even the closest stars are very far away indeed. But if you take in to consideration the rapid pace of technological advancement, things look brighter. The Wright brothers=92 first feeble flights advanced to a man on the moon in just 50 years. In less than 100 years, we can travel 1,000 times faster. If this rule holds true for the next hundred years, we will be able to travel to the nearest stars with relative ease. Predicting this future, however, is not easy. We simply lack even the basic theories to travel at above light speed making the engineering of an interstellar drive even further away. There are however, some interesting ideas on the drawing board that are within current theoretical limits. A study by NASA in 1998 identified 3 potential propulsion technologies that might enable exploration beyond our solar system. Antimatter, fusion and light sails. Light sails currently are the most technologically viable of the three. Robert L. Forward, scientist and science fiction writer first proposed them in 1984. The basic idea is to use huge lasers to push an object out of the solar system. Although it sounds strange to think of light pushing an object, photons do exert a very small force over objects they hit. Since the force it small, the object needs to be both large and lightweight =96 like a sail. It also needs to be reflective as only photons bouncing off an object impart velocity =96 absorbed photons generate heat. To prevent the heat from building up, the backside of the sail needs to be an effective radiator. Because photons exert a tiny force even over a large area, the sail must be large indeed. However, since space is virtually empty, there is very little drag. This means any imparted velocity is incremental =96 a tiny push over a long period equals one big push. The sail material could be some form of Mylar =96 both thin and strong. Steering the sail and aiming the huge lasers, however, are not trivial problems. By huge lasers, think 10 gigawatts shining on a 1 kilometer in diameter sail just to send a 16 gram payload to the closest star. The laser must be precisely aimed on target for as long as possible to get the desired velocities. According to its inventor, this light-powered ship could make it to the next star in only ten years. This technology also scales up to allow for larger payloads but laser power levels quickly become gargantuan. To send a 1,000 ton ship with a crew to the same destination would require a 1,000 kilometer sail driven by a 10 million gigawatt laser - ten thousand times more than the power used on all the Earth today. These sails have been tested: On August 9, 2004 Japanese ISAS successfully deployed two prototype solar sails in low Earth orbit. A clover type sail was deployed at 122 km altitude and a fan type sail was deployed at 169 km altitude. Both sails used 7.5 micrometer thick film. They used the force of the sun=92s photons as propulsion rather than a large laser. Faster speed could be achieved by fusion motors. Unfortunately, unlike light sails, fusion has yet to be sufficiently well understood to use as a propulsion device. Not for want of billions of dollars in funding to study it, however. Someday soon we may have the ability to control the same reaction that drives our sun. Fusion liberates tremendous energy from a given mass making it ideal for long voyages when fuel weight becomes the critical factor. One interesting idea is the Bussard ramjet first proposed in 1960 by the American physicist RW Bussard. Rather than bring fuel, why not get it from space? Although commonly perceived to be empty, interstellar space has a minuscule amount of hydrogen gas - at a density of about one or two atoms per cubic centimeter. Bussard=92s idea is to scoop this gas up using electromagnetic force fields that extend outwards in front of the spacecraft. This field would need to be absolutely gigantic =96 upwards of 50,000 kilometers in diameter. Shipboard superconducting coils would steer interstellar gas towards the ship compressing it until the density was enough to produce usable fuel. In order to start this collection process the ship would already need substantial velocity =96 on the order of 3 to 4% light speed. A Bussard ramjet could conceivably achieve a constant 1g acceleration that would allow the pilot to make very long journeys. To an Earthbound observer, such a ship would take hundreds of thousands of years to reach the center of the galaxy. But because of relativistic time dilation, only 20 years would pass for the crew on the ship. Imagine =96 just 20 years to the center of the galaxy! Of course, technical problems remain such as force field drag, shielding the crew from interstellar radiation and the ability to control fusion reactions. Even farther off technically is the antimatter drive. When matter and antimatter come in to proximity, they annihilate each other releasing even more energy than fusion. A fusion based propulsion unit could generate 100 trillion joules per kilo of fuel =96 respectable when considering that it would be 10 million times more efficient than chemical rockets. Matter-antimatter reactions, however, dwarf all other reactions. Imagine a drive could generate 20 quadrillion joules per kilo of reaction mass. That=92s enough power form one kilo to supply the world=92s needs for about 25 minutes. Technical problems include lack of fuel =96 the world supply is a few dozen nanograms a year, fuel handling =96 you can easily predict the catastrophic results of an antimatter fuel accident - and reaction control. All these technologies are as far away now as the atomic bomb was to Alfred Nobel =96 the inventor of TNT. That is to say, not very. We may see the beginnings of an interstellar spaceflight program before the end of the millennium. We will simply need a compelling reason. To contemplate seriously reaching the nearest stars, we need to understand the hurdles involved. First, there is the enormous cost involved in deploying any of the understood technologies. Second, despite UFO enthusiast=92s beliefs, there is no hard evidence that we have ever been visited by alien spacefarers. Third, we know we can send radio waves to these destinations without problems. With this in mind, it may simply be too expensive and technically difficult to travel in interstellar space. A better solution has been proposed: why not create an intergalactic Internet? Send small, self-replicating research probes to other stars. Once there, they build copies of themselves and continue to explore outwards, relaying a steady stream of information back to Earth. These self-replicating probes, also known as Von Neumann machines, are named after their inventor, mathematician John Von Neumann (1903-1957). The beauty of this idea is once you manage to construct the first self-replicating machine, the rest is automatic. The probes would expand into space geometrically, spreading rapidly to fill the whole galaxy. Once established, this network could be used for communication and localization of new Earthlike planets to colonize. As of now, building machines that work well unassisted remain a problematic task for even the best scientists if recent unmanned mission failures are any indication. A self-repairing and self- replicating robotic probe seems distant indeed. Travel in interstellar space represents a huge challenge to humankind. For now, it remains in the realm of science fiction =96 but soon, who knows? We may yet live to see the first missions to nearby stars =96 that is if the last 100 years of history is
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:16:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 08:01:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA - Kaeser >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 07:52:08 -0000 >Subject: Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA >>From: Jay Nelson <jnelson.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:59:25 -0700 >>Subject: Spielberg and the Battle of LA >>I've noticed something that may add to the question of "what >>does director Steven Spielberg really know about ETs?" >>This being Pearl Harbor Day, I took out the disk last night of >>one of my favorite movies, Steven Spielberg's sadly >>underappreciated comedy 1941, about post-Pearl Harbor hysteria, >>made in 1979. This time I just viewed an added featurette, "The >>Making of 1941" (1995). <snip> >>The Army defended the action, though soon it was attributed to >>'jittery nerves' when no wreckage was forthcoming. In 1974, a >>memo was revealed that Chief of Staff General Marshall wrote to >>President Roosevelt, saying it was real and that as many as 15 >>aircraft might have been involved. ><snip> >It seems to me that WWII historians, using Japanese sources, >would know whether the Japanese got as far as California during >that period and actually raided LA? >Diana I've done little reading regarding this incident, but I also enjoyed the Spielberg film "1941". I found this information at: http://www.maxwelldemille.com/air-raid.asp ----- "Early 1942 was a time of much uncertainty to many Southern Californians. Pearl harbor had been attacked just a few months earlier and many were suspicious of the large Japanese population living so close to some of Americas most strategic industries. Just twenty-four hours earlier an enemy submarine had attacked an oil refinery in Goleta, a sleepy coastal town just one hour north of Los Angeles. Although the shelling did less than $500 in damage and caused no casualties, this attack was widely reported in Los Angeles and caused some alarm among the citizenry. That an enemy submarine could surface a couple hundred yards from shore and lob shells onto the beach for thirty minutes was cause for consternation. (The fact that they appeared to be incredibly bad shots was lost on most people at the time.) The day after the air raid, in Washington, Navy Secretary Frank Knox was quoted as saying "as far as I know the whole raid was a false alarm and could be attributed to jittery nerves". But did any of those one million witnesses actually see an enemy aircraft? Many will point to some sort of government cover-up or conspiracy. However, as we were at war, still stinging from Pearl Harbor, it is reasonable to assume that the United States government would want to keep an enemy attack quiet. The physical evidence points to no aircraft at all being up there that night. As one witness, Jack Illfrey, a young P38 pilot assigned to the 94th aero squadron stationed at Long Beach Airport reported, "We pilots prayed to the good Lord above that we wouldn't be sent up in that barrage, enemy or not. Most everyone saw or imagined something -- Japanese Zero's, P34's, Japanese Betty bombers. We were not sent up". So not even American interceptors were sent up that night, thankfully, as they may likely have become victims of "friendly fire". Years later it was discovered that a coastal radar station had indeed seen an inbound blip on their radar screens that night. But was this actually enemy aircraft? Many of the eyewitness accounts of that morning were from average people with no nighttime aircraft observation experience. Experienced observers like Peter Jenkins, a staff reporter with the evening Herald Examiner, could not be counted as a reliable witness, as he reported that "I could clearly see the "V" formation of about 25 silvery planes overhead moving slowly across the sky towards Long Beach". Even Long Beach chief of police J. H. McClelland claimed to have witnessed planes inbound towards Redondo Beach. He had witnessed this spectacle from the roof of the Long Beach civic center with a Naval Observer using high-powered binoculars. But again, with all that flack in the air, if there had been planes, one would expect something to get hit. Some have countered that this was an aerial reconnaissance flight, but that is highly unlikely as recon flights are traditionally high and fast and occur during the day, as there is not much to see on the ground at night. Some more plausible theories involve errant weather balloons and even the oft-told story of several of these carrying flares, an apparent response to the alarm of panic. Although no balloons were officially recovered, the Army might have wanted to suppress embarrassing evidence of panic and misjudgment. Regardless, for batteries to be firing from all corners of Los Angeles at an errant weather balloon, even under the duress of the early days of World War II, borders on the ludicrous. Since the 1970's some have proffered that this was caused by extraterrestrial beings flying over the coast of Los Angeles. They usually point to a famous photograph showing search lights and spots as proof. These spots are probably the detonation of Anti-Aircraft projectiles, aberrations on the film due to motion, reflections, decay of the film itself, or any of a number of things. If there was something up there, it certainly was unidentified, and according to some reports, these crafts were not like anything known to be in use at the time. But, as we have noted, the eyewitnesses themselves did not know what they had seen, and some witnesses although sure, never had their accounts verified. Since the 1970's some have proffered that this was caused by extraterrestrial beings flying over the coast of Los Angeles. They usually point to a famous photograph showing search lights and spots as proof. These spots are probably the detonation of Anti-Aircraft projectiles, aberrations on the film due to motion, reflections, decay of the film itself, or any of a number of things. If there was something up there, it certainly was unidentified, and according to some reports, these crafts were not like anything known to be in use at the time. But, as we have noted, the eyewitnesses themselves did not know what they had seen, and some witnesses although sure, never had their accounts verified."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: Moon UFOs & LTPs - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:17:33 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 08:05:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFOs & LTPs - Balaskas >From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:56:09 +0000 (GMT) >Subject: Moon UFOs & LTPs >Remember those old white blob moving UFO's on or near the Moon >and the flash's of light etc seen through telescopes? Well here >they are fully explained for you by recent NASA back research of >data from instruments left there in the late 1960/70's; <snip> >http://tinyurl.com/c42fc >Will the debunkers debunk this explanation? Hi Colin! When the Apollo astronauts occasionally kicked up some lunar soil, sometimes they would be surrounded by a persistent cloud of dust or fine particulate matter. This should be impossible since the Moon does not have an atmosphere and everything would fall at the same rate in a vacuum, even in the Moon's smaller gravity. If the dust or fine particulate matter that was kicked up acquired a net charge that was different to the charge on the lunar surface, the electrostatic force of replusion would balance the force of gravity and the particles would hover above the lunar surface. Now we learn that electostatic storms have been detected at the Moon's terminator, the slowly changing border that separates the dark unlit part of the Moon from the bright sunlit side. As for the discharges from these electrostatic storms being the reason for transient lunar phenomena or TLPs, NASA is wrong. The September 1999 issue of Sky And Telescope contained a debunking article titled The TLP Myth: A Brief For The Prosecution. Although the two authors of this article make mention of the 1968 NASA report Chronological Catalog Of Reported Lunar Events, they ignore the more recent and complete 1978 Cameron report Lunar Transient Phenomena Catalog, which lists a total of 1468 unexplained lights, objects and events on or in the vicinity of our 'dead' Moon dating back to 1540 AD. The total number of observed TLPs I suspect to be much larger since nearly every astronomer I know that has witnessed such short lived or moving lights on the Moon which they could not explain have failed to report them. One simple fact that makes NASA's new theory false is that the majority of TLPs were not observed on the Moon's terminator where these electrostatic storms occur. NASA's theory could easily be tested during total eclipses of the Moon which occur once or more times a year when the entire sunlit surface of the Moon visible from Earth rapidly darkens and stays dark for a while before becoming sunlit again. Although I am not aware of any TLPs reported during eclipses of the Moon, a time when many more people would be watching closely, I would be interested to know if these electostatic storms were detected then too. More recently, independent observers using telescopes have noted the same bright flashes on the dark side of the Moon during meteor showers. These TLPs can easily be explained as the light energy given off during the impact of fast moving meteoroids with the Moon. If Don Wilson's conclusions in his well researched book Secrets Of Our Spaceship Moon are correct, and I have no good reason or new facts to suspect otherwise, then many of these TLPs could be understood as ET alien activity on our closest neighbour in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: The Call That Is Important To Us All - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:07:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 08:08:16 -0500 Subject: Re: The Call That Is Important To Us All - Balaskas >Source: The Australian - Sydney, NSW, Australia >http://tinyurl.com/dphd9 >December 08, 2005 >The Call That Is Important To Us All >Leigh Dayton >Science Writer <snip> >According to Dr Tarter - whose SETI exploits were portrayed by >Jodie Foster in the 1997 film Contact - if a signal from ET is >detected it must be verified quickly and the news spread widely >to ensure it's not "co-opted" by interest groups or politicians. When Dr. Jill Tartar spoke on SETI at University of Toronto's Convocation Hall a few years ago - the same venue where Canada's past Minister of National Defense spoke about the ET "visitors" already here - she had no reason to believe that the astronomer played by Jody Foster in the movie Contact portrayed her. The author of the book Contact, which was written a dozen years before the movie version came out, certainly would have known about Tartar before he died. In the Author's Note, at the end of this book, Sagan wrote: "Although of course I have been influenced by those I know, none of the characters herein is a close portrait of a real person. Nevertheless, this book owes much to the world SETI community - a small band of scientists from all over our small planet, working together, sometimes in the face fo daunting obstacles, to listen for a signal from the skies. I would like to acknowledge a special debt of gratitude to the SETI pioneers Frank Drake, Philip Morrison, and the late I.S. Shklovskii." If similar special radio techniques used by Wilbert B. Smith to communicate with the "Boys Topside" were allegedly used to contact the home planet around the Zeta Recticular Star System of the sole survivor of the 1947 Roswell UFO crash(s). Then we have already made contact - assuming these special radio signals were not limited by the finite speed of light. >"Another caveat is that (scientists) will not transmit a reply >until there's a global consensus about whether to reply and what >should be said," Dr Tarter claimed. <snip> The EM radio signals from our technological activity has been leaking out into space for nearly a century and any ETs living on any nearby worlds would have picked up them up by now so the the caveat not to transmit a reply to them is a silly one. I suspect this caveat is intended to have control over us by preventing the free exchange of ideas - just like we now enjoy with people all over the world, including closed societies or potential enemies, via the Internet. Besides, considering the average human life span is about 70 years, there will not be much of a two-way dialogue by radio going on since it would take nearly a decade for a reply to our questions from ETs living on
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Secrecy News -- 12/08/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:58:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 08:10:13 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 12/08/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 111 December 8, 2005 ** OPEN SOURCE INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR NAMED ** NATSIOS AND THE COST OF IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION ** CQ RESEARCHER ON GOVERNMENT SECRECY ** ALTERNATIVE COVER SHEETS FOR CLASSIFIED INFO OPEN SOURCE INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR NAMED Eliot A. Jardines has been named Assistant Deputy Director of National Intelligence for Open Source. In that post, he will provide policy guidance to the recently established Open Source Center, which is responsible for deriving intelligence from unclassified, open source information that can be legally acquired without resorting to espionage. "We must establish OSINT [open source intelligence] as an equal partner with human intelligence (HUMINT), signals intelligence (SIGINT), imagery intelligence (IMINT) and measurement and signatures intelligence (MASINT)," Mr. Jardines said at a June 21 congressional hearing. "For too long, open source exploitation has been delegated as merely an additional duty for intelligence analysts. This is simply a ridiculous notion." "No one would seriously propose that intelligence analysts be required to collect their own signals or imagery intelligence. However, that is precisely what we do with open source intelligence," he said. See his June 21, 2005 testimony on "Using Open-Source Information Effectively" before a House Homeland Security Subcommittee here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_hr/062105jardines.pdf Mr. Jardines, a fairly junior figure, was previously the president of Open Source Publishing, a commercial enterprise that provided open source intelligence support to government and industry. A December 7 news release from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, announcing the appointment of Mr. Jardines, as well as a Civil Liberties Protection Officer and a Procurement Executive, may be found here: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2005/12/odni120705.html The rise of open source intelligence does not necessarily imply increased public access to analytical products of U.S. intelligence. To the contrary, the use of copyrighted source materials may pose a new obstacle to public disclosure. NATSIOS AND THE COST OF IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION Andrew Natsios, who announced his resignation as administrator of the Agency for International Development (AID) on December 2, played a memorable role in misinforming the American public about the costs of post-war reconstruction in Iraq. The cost to the American taxpayer of rebuilding Iraq will be $1.7 billion, Mr. Natsios confidently told ABC Nightline on April 23, 2003. The actual number, which continues to grow, is at least an order of magnitude higher. "You're not suggesting that the rebuilding of Iraq is gonna be done for $1.7 billion?" asked ABC's Ted Koppel incredulously. "Well, in terms of the American taxpayers contribution, I do, this is it for the US," Mr. Natsios said. The transcript of that interview, originally posted on the AID web site, was quietly removed later in the year, as reported in the Washington Post on December 18, 2003 ("White House Web Scrubbing; Offending Comments on Iraq Disappear From Site" by Dana Milbank). A copy of the deleted AID transcript of the Natsios Nightline interview is here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/temp/natsios042303.html Iraq war-related expenditures, including costs of reconstruction programs, are notoriously difficult to track. But a reasonably lucid account was provided by the Congressional Research Service in "The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan and Enhanced Base Security Since 9/11," October 7, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf CQ RESEARCHER ON GOVERNMENT SECRECY An unusually comprehensive account of current issues in government secrecy policy has been published by Congressional Quarterly's CQ Researcher. The growth in classification, the state of the Freedom of Information Act, the declining culture of openness, and the problem of leaks are among the topics explored by CQ writer Kenneth Jost. A copy of the 24 page publication is available here through January 2006, courtesy of CQ Press (1.1 MB PDF file) (For permission to distribute or to purchase hardcopies, contact Julie Miller at JMiller.nul): http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/12/cqr1205.pdf ALTERNATIVE COVER SHEETS FOR CLASSIFIED INFO While underlying questions of secrecy and disclosure carry a potent primeval charge, the actual implementation of government secrecy policy is about as boring as it could be. In a rare attempt to leaven the subject with humor, some unidentified person has produced spoofs of the colored cover sheets that are often used on classified documents (Standard Forms 703, 704, and 705 for Top Secret, Secret and Confidential, respectively). Three previously published bogus cover sheets (for Futile, Stupid and B*ll**** Information) have been augmented by three new ones. The collection was circulated this week at the Pentagon. See the set here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/coversheets.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA - Nelson From: Jay Nelson <jnelson.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:32:09 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 08:14:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA - Nelson >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 07:52:08 -0000 >Subject: Re: Spielberg and the Battle of LA >>From: Jay Nelson <jnelson.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:59:25 -0700 >>Subject: Spielberg and the Battle of LA <snip> >>1941, as the writers acknowledge, was based in a large part upon >>the Battle of Los Angeles. As you all know this was an incident >>that occurred on February 25, 1942, when lights over Los Angeles >>were thought to be a number of incoming Japanese bombers. There >>was a blackout and a lot of antiaircraft fire was expended, but >>no Japanese planes were shot down. >>The Army defended the action, though soon it was attributed to >>'jittery nerves' when no wreckage was forthcoming. In 1974, a >>memo was revealed that Chief of Staff General Marshall wrote to >>President Roosevelt, saying it was real and that as many as 15 >>aircraft might have been involved. ><snip> >It seems to me that WWII historians, using Japanese sources, >would know whether the Japanese got as far as California during >that period and actually raided LA? Indeed. It is well-known that the Japanese did have submarines along the West Coast at that time, as is shown in the movie. The documentary pointed out that one shelled the Northern Californian coast only two days before the L.A. incident, which no doubt added to the jitters, and one of the writers mentioned a Japanese plan - which I've not heard of before - to simultaneously attack up and down the coast with their entire sub fleet that was foiled by American antisubmarine tactics. I don't think, however, the Japanese dared risk their aircraft carriers so close to the mainland despite popular fears here. In fact, the official sources state that at the time the Japanese carriers were quite busy near the East Indies preparing for the battle of the Java Sea which happened just two days later. In the comedy, one crazed officer claimed the planes were coming from strips hidden in "the alfalfa fields of Pomona". Actually during the incident, lights on the ground were reported pointing towards the Lockheed plant which may or may not have been part of the hysteria. Nothing was ever said about them later, as far as I know, but it played upon the fears of Japanese spies and saboteurs that led to all the Japanese on the West Coast being ordered into concentration camps several months later. (Yes, we had them too.) But if any Japanese planes had been shot down, you can bet the home front news media would have played it up bigtime. There was a rumor I found on the Net somewhere about an alien craft recovered at that time off San Diego. And one of the Majestic documents obtained by the Woods is purportedly FDR's reply to Gen. Marshall, written two days later, authorizing Dr. Vannevar Bush to begin a crash project for "finding practical uses for the atomic secrets learned from study of celestial devices" so, who knows, maybe something very important was recovered. There does seem to have been some secret project in place well before Roswell, after all. If Roswell had been the first time we'd ever seen alien technology, I doubt that the cover-up would have been so fast or so well-executed. No, it seems to me they must have been ready -- possibly because it had happened before? One can only imagine the panic in high circles back in 1942 if they realized that not only did we have two deadly enemies on this planet to contend with, but were being scouted in force by unknown powers. Doubtless the authorities would have been greatly relieved simply that the aliens didn't shoot back! Back to Spielberg, Close Encounters/1941 seems like the sort of one step forward, one step back dance that constantly bedevils ufology. Did he honestly never see the connection? Was it deliberate? And if so why? By the way, the San Francisco Museum's website chronicling WWII claims that what they were shooting at in the Battle of Los
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: Spielberg And The Battle Of LA - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:25:22 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:55:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Spielberg And The Battle Of LA - Hatch >From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 07:52:08 -0000 >Subject: Re: Spielberg And The Battle Of LA >>From: Jay Nelson <jnelson.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:59:25 -0700 >>Subject: Spielberg And The Battle Of LA >>I've noticed something that may add to the question of "what >>does director Steven Spielberg really know about ETs?" >>This being Pearl Harbor Day, I took out the disk last night of >>one of my favorite movies, Steven Spielberg's sadly >>underappreciated comedy 1941, about post-Pearl Harbor hysteria, >>made in 1979. This time I just viewed an added featurette, "The >>Making of 1941" (1995). >>In this, Spielberg says that he agreed to make the movie while >>he was working on Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (1977). He, >>Bob Gale, and Robert Zemekis, the writers, recounted how they >>reworked the screenplay during the production of CE3K in an >>office in the very hanger where Spielberg was filming the >>mothership scenes. >>1941, as the writers acknowledge, was based in a large part upon >>the Battle of Los Angeles. As you all know this was an incident >>that occurred on February 25, 1942, when lights over Los Angeles >>were thought to be a number of incoming Japanese bombers. There >>was a blackout and a lot of antiaircraft fire was expended, but >>no Japanese planes were shot down. <snip> >>The Army defended the action, though soon it was attributed to >>'jittery nerves' when no wreckage was forthcoming. In 1974, a >>memo was revealed that Chief of Staff General Marshall wrote to >>President Roosevelt, saying it was real and that as many as 15 >>aircraft might have been involved. ><snip> >It seems to me that WWII historians, using Japanese sources, would know whether the Japanese got as far as California during that period and actually raided LA? Hi Diana: If memory serves, some lonely Japanese submarine shelled an oil refinery near San Pedro, CA near Los Angeles at one point. Next to no damage, mainly for bragging rights/psychology I take it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:30:15 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:58:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? - Hatch >From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 00:21:55 -0000 >Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 14:11:16 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>>From: Joe Stefula <joseph207.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:20:41 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Victor Martinez's List? >>>>I keep hearing much about this UFO List, moderated by Victor >>>>Martinez. It is apparently where the Serpo postings were first >>>>released or something. When Bill Ryan was on C2C last night he >>>>said the List of members reads like a "who's who" of ufology. So >>>>have any of you ever heard of this List, is anyone a member? >>>>I am just trying to confirm that it exists or that it doesn't. >>>Yes, it's for real. >>Fine Joe. What's the URL of the actual page showing the List? >Larry and Enquirees, >Victor runs his List from web tv somewhere and he just adds >names willy-nilly in the carbon copies panel cos technically the >system won't let him enter the email addresses in blind copies - >much to many members' annoyance. >To get on his massive list one assumes you join the discussion >or write to him at victorgm.nul >But beware. >His List is like the Hotel California - you can never leave! >And personally I mostly find it inane and pathetic - especially >since this Serpo B-movie nonsense. His is constantly in dispute >with Jack Sarfatti - who isn't? - who also has a similar >makeshift 'please get me off' type List. Thanks Dave: May I take it there is not URL where one can look without joining in? Just an email List with no archives or web page? "Bill Ryan was on C2C last night he said the List of members reads like a "who's who" of ufology "
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: Is Interstellar Spaceflight Possible? - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:28:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 13:40:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Is Interstellar Spaceflight Possible? - >Source: PhysOrg.com - Tilburg, The Netherlands >http://www.physorg.com/news8817.html >Interstellar Spaceflight: Is It Possible? >by Chuck Rahls <snip> >Travel in interstellar space represents a huge challenge to >humankind. For now, it remains in the realm of science fiction - >but soon, who knows? We may yet live to see the first missions >to nearby stars - that is if the last 100 years of history is >any guide. When I worked for Aerojet General Nucleonics in San Ramon, CA, 1959-1963 we had an Air Force Contract to look at fusion propulsion for deep space travel. Value was 9million dollars and we focused on Deuterium-Heliun 3 reactions which provide almost all the energy in the form of charged particles rather than the Deuterium-Deuterium reactions which produce mainly neutrons. Charged particles can be directed by magnetic fields to be exhausted out the back end. Neutrons come off in all directions. The billions spent on fusion have been for the production of power not propulsion and use DD. Space provides a cheap vacuum system. Talking about the Pioneer and Voyager spacecraft is really quite meaningless ( I worked on Pioneer) though the focus of the SETI cultists. They don't have propulsion systems on them. They are coasting. A feather is hardly a good analogy for atmospheric or orbital flight, no less deep space. It also helps to realize that it only takes one year at 1G accelleration to get very close to the speed of light. Also one would would expect savvy engineers to use cosmic freeloading from the gravitation fields of all heavenly bodies as we do when trapising around the solar system. We use the moon to help us there, Venus, Earth, and Jupiter to get the Cassini spacecraft to Saturn, etc. We launch to the east from near the equator to get a free 1000 miles per hour from the rotation of the earth. Find a black hole, but
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: Chinese City To Build UFO Research Center - From: Darryl Barker <admin.nul> Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 15:25:48 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 13:43:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Chinese City To Build UFO Research Center - >From <ufoupdates.nul>wrote: >Source: United Press International >http://tinyurl.com/b23u7 >12/6/2005 >Chinese City To Build UFO Research Center >GUIYANG, China, Dec. 6 (UPI) -- A Taiwanese company has put up >$20 million to build a UFO research base in China's southern >province of Guizhou, where aliens are said to have visited in >1994. >Residents of Baiyun district in Guiyang, the provincial capital, >hope the institute will look into the odd phenomena they >experienced Nov. 30, 1994, Xinhua reported Tuesday. >On that date, nearly 70 acres of pine trees on a tree farm >mysteriously fell down, while nearby plastic shelters remained >intact. >A truck factory reported steel pipes strangely broken, a huge >truck moved more than 20 yards, and a night shift employee >pulled into the air by an "unknown force." <snip> FYI, a Taiwan news report (in Chinese), indicated that the truck
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: Hunt For The Skinwalker - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:43:33 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 13:45:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Hunt For The Skinwalker - Hebert >From: Colm Kelleher <colm_kelleher.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:28:57 -0800 >Subject: Hunt For The Skinwalker <snip> >"Hunt for the Skinwalker is a well told and true account of the amazing strangeness discovered by a scientific team doing investigations for the National Institute of Discovery Science. Reading this account was like hearing, word for word, for the second time the reports of the field investigators." - Edgar Mitchell, Sc.D. Astronaut, NIDS SAC <snip> Interesting review of the book by J. E. Barnes at: http://tinyurl.com/b45l4
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:51:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:51:15 -0500 Subject: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files Source: The Times-Leader - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, USA http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/local/13360634.htm Thu, Dec. 08, 2005 Sci Fi Channel-Backed Researcher Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files Joe Mandak Associated Press PITTSBURGH - Researchers and witnesses who believe a UFO landed in the woods of western Pennsylvania 40 years ago are marking another anniversary on Friday: two years since a lawsuit was filed to get NASA to release records of what happened. A National Aeronautics and Space Administration spokesman says there's no cover-up: the "UFO" was a Russian satellite but government records documenting it have been lost. Leslie Kean, an investigative reporter backed by the Sci Fi Channel, and a group connected to the cable TV channel sued the NASA two years ago under the Freedom of Information Act. Kean wants files on what happened Dec. 9, 1965, in the unincorporated hamlet of Kecksburg, about 30 miles southeast of Pittsburgh. Witnesses described a "fireball" in the evening sky, and a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 to 15 feet high and 8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently in the woods, according to media accounts at the time. Kean's attorney Lee Helfrich said she'll file a new court motion on Friday seeking to "jump start" NASA's search for the information. "NASA has been stonewalling for too long, and in the process has given us a great record to show that it's recalcitrant and acting in bad faith," Helfrich said. "What is NASA trying to hide?" Nothing, NASA spokesman Dave Steitz said. The object appeared to be a Russian satellite that re-entered the atmosphere and broke up. NASA experts studied fragments from the object, but records of what they found were lost in the 1990s, Steitz said. "As a rule, we don't track UFOs. What we could do, and what we apparently did as experts in spacecraft in the 1960s, was to take a look at whatever it was and give our expert opinion," Steitz said. "We did that, we boxed (the case) up and that was the end of it. Unfortunately, the documents supporting those findings were misplaced." Kean and Helfrich don't believe that explanation. Kean said Nicholas L. Johnson, NASA's chief scientist for orbital debris, determined the object couldn't be a Russian satellite or any other manmade object, after studying the orbital paths of known satellites and other records from 1965. Johnson didn't immediately return calls for comment Thursday to his phone number listed on NASA's Web site. Steitz referred questions on Kean's claims to NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, which didn't immediately comment. Witnesses claim military personnel cordoned off the site, removed the object and threatened residents who questioned the incident. The military later called the object a meteor. On Saturday, Kean, Helfrich and others connected to a Sci Fi Channel documentary will speak at the Kecksburg fire hall, where a mock-up of the object is on permanent display. Kean said a pair of West Virginia University scientists who examined the reported landing site made two recent discoveries. Forestry professor Ray Hicks counted tree rings and determined that trees in the area were damaged in 1965. Hicks, however, said the trees were likely damaged by ice, and then snapped off by the wind. He says his findings don't support Kean's claim that "something physically landed" at the site.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Scrap Yard UFO Goes AWOL From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:54:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:54:42 -0500 Subject: Scrap Yard UFO Goes AWOL Source: The Times-Leader - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, USA http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/13366146.htm Dec. 09, 2005 Scrap Yard UFO Goes AWOL By Kris Wernowsky kwernowsky.nul WILKES-BARRE =96 Pete Bielecki stood on the sidewalk between the street and the colossal bales of condensed cardboard boxes held together with wire on wooden pallets. He waved at the passing motorists who make up the quaint and ever-changing cast of characters who come to the Pennsylvania Avenue scrap yard to cash in their aluminum for 40 cents a pound. He produced a tiny cigar that, when slipped in the left corner of his mouth, made a tiny paunch in his jowls. "If these things had calories I'd weigh 500 pounds," he said, pointing to the stub of the thick Nicaraguan stogie. Cigar secured, Bielecki motioned to a space above the garage door of the scrap yard loading area where his spaceship used to be. Sometime Monday Bielecki realized his aluminum astral anomaly was taken from the scrap yard. "I looked and thought, 'Wow, where's my space shuttle?'" For 20 years Bielecki has owned the North End scrap yard, and during that time he's created a hidden museum of strange and historic rubbish, including three caskets, brass beds, funeral home candleholders, parking meters, runner sleds, spittoons and a moonshine still from an old house in Ashley. When a large aluminum mock spaceship came through his scrap yard three years ago, Bielecki said he had found something special. He doesn't know who it belonged to or why someone decided to get rid of it, but he knew he had to make it a part of his ever- growing collection of unwanted things. He and his staff cleaned the spaceship with mops and emblazoned the craft with big black decals that read "#1 USA." Bielecki wired the scrapped craft to several heavy pallets and placed it on the roof just above where an American flag still hangs. Now he's sad to see it gone. About two months ago, in the early-morning hours, Bielecki was roused from his sleep by a call from Wilkes-Barre police. "They said, 'Bielecki, your space shuttle's out on Penn Avenue,'" he said. Officers rolled the round seven-foot-tall piece of metal onto the sidewalk. Busy days continued to push back the relaunch to the roof. It sat out of public view behind the building for about two months, until Monday when Bielecki noticed it was gone. "We sure do miss it," said Janet Lyons, the kindly woman who acts as the eyes and ears of Bielecki's front office. Wilkes-Barre police know little about the space shuttle's disappearance. The department put out a terse press release that stated "someone stole a 400 pound spacecraft." "It had to have taken at least three guys to pick it up," Bielecki said. "You couldn't fit it in a pickup truck, that's for sure. I sure wish I had a picture of it." The scrap man's penchant for saving strange things brought to the yard began as an idea to have something to do when he retires. Bielecki wanted to make a hobby of restoring and selling old things, but he said he might never get the chance. "I always get the goofiest things in here and people always ask me what I'm going to do with it. I say, 'When I retire I'm going to clean it up,'" he said. "The problem is I'll never retire. They'll carry me out of here feet-first." But so long as people die with interesting old stuff in their homes, or if they simply discard these treasures as junk, Pete Bielecki will find a place for it somewhere in his gallery of antiquity. If not, it'll get smashed and recycled. Aliens? The ghost of Buck Rogers? Holiday pranksters? What do you think happened to the spaceship? Click on this story at www.timesleader.com and tell us.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Lennon UFOs And Chocolate Cake From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:59:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:59:06 -0500 Subject: Lennon UFOs And Chocolate Cake Source: PopMatters.Com - Evanston, Illinois, USA http://tinyurl.com/7a97c 8 December 2005 UFOs And Chocolate Cake May Pang reveals the John Lennon Yoko doesn't want you to know. by Michael Christopher "The fact is there are only three women John Lennon lived with." May Pang says. "I happen to be one of them." Pang is tired of the lies, the whitewash and revisionist history bandied about by Yoko Ono and believed by millions. "For me, when my time is taken away, I like to have it corrected," she says. "I'm not taking away the time John spent with Cynthia, the time he spent with Yoko -- that's not my thing." Most Lennon fans have a vague sense of who May Pang is, usually remembering her as John and Yoko's onetime personal assistant and the woman with whom Lennon spent his "lost weekend" in the mid-1970s. "People say, 'What is she still talking about John for? She only had a weekend with him!' First of all, it was 18 months. When John was back at the Dakota, he was forced to say something, he had to put out a statement. To explain the time away, he was going to have to call it something, and he told me he was going to call it the lost weekend. 'It's not personal,' he told me, 'but I have to call it something.' It just steamrolled from there. It was a very interesting time, because since 1980, it's as if I never existed. If you want the official book, then I can't be there." The "official book," as Pang calls it, is another way of saying the Yoko story. Since Lennon's death 25 years ago this week, Ono has done everything short of canonizing the former Beatle. And while there is no doubt he ranks among the greatest songwriters of all time, was one fourth of the greatest band in music history, and was a constant purveyor of peace and harmony, it somehow isn't enough. From bilking blood relatives out of millions to disallowing Paul McCartney lead credit on a handful of Beatle numbers, Ono has shaped the Lennon legacy as she sees fit. "Maybe she just feels that she has to be the one," offers Pang. "This was an icon in the world, so maybe it's insecurity on her part. When you talk about the truth, it's not just one sided here. There are definitely a lot of checks and balances; it can't always be about her. What happened to the rest of us? Didn't we exist?" Pang is the embodiment of class when she talks of her relationship with Lennon. Never defensive and without bitterness at her portrayal over the years, she just seems to be telling the story the way it is. Just this year, in books by journalist Larry Kane and Lennon's first wife, Cynthia, Pang's importance has been documented, after years of being swept under the rug of history. "It's nice to be vindicated, to know that I did exist, that I was there," she says. Ono has never denied she and Lennon spent time apart. By 1973, their relationship began to sour, and Ono suggested that they take a break, but with their assistant to keep a watchful eye. "When she came and approached me about going out with John, I was like, 'Don't look at me! I'm too busy working for you guys,' " Pang says in her still-thick New York accent. "Yoko said, 'I want you to go out with him, I know you'll treat him nicely, I know you'll take care of him.' It was more like I should go out with him, I needed a boyfriend. That's what she said to me, and I was like, 'No, I don't!' It wasn't something that I wanted. I had already been with them for three years, so it wasn't like I was after this man. I knew what they were like morning and night; the last thing I wanted was him as my boyfriend!" Yet the two fell for each other, and for the next year and a half, Lennon would be at his most visible and creative, post- Beatles. Lennon was at a productive peak, recording the covers album Rock 'n' Roll and Walls and Bridges. But in the gossip columns, that translated to accounts of a debaucherous, nonstop party, a tag which Pang is quick to refute. "When people say he was so drunk all the time, they're only citing the one or two instances the whole time I was with him. You're saying the same thing over and over again. It was very easy to say that, but if he was that drunk, then how could he be in the studio working that prolifically?" While uneven, Walls and Bridges contained some of his best solo songs, including the Elton John duet "Whatever Gets You Thru the Night" and "#9 Dream." But the album has also been the victim of Ono alteration in its reissued format in November 2005. Crediting herself as producer (in all caps, no less), Ono changed the cover from a one of Lennon's childhood drawings to a Bob Gruen photograph and put her own picture on the CD itself. Most striking is her alterations to a song penned for Pang, "Surprise, Surprise (Sweet Bird of Paradox)": during the fadeout Ono has added a new voice-over that says "Yoko, I love her," an interesting addition for a work recorded when Ono wasn't even around. "John didn't intend to have it done that way," says a clearly irritated Pang. "To be reissued is one thing. To start changing things, not the way he intended, is changing the artist's work and changing everything. She's not enhancing it, she's making it something else, and I find it sad." Walls and Bridges also features a curious sentence in the liner notes in which Lennon states, "On the 23rd Aug. 1974 at 9 o'clock I saw a U.F.O. -- J.L." Pang explains, "It was nighttime, and John went out on the terrace of our apartment to have a cigarette, and he yelled out to me, 'May!' And I just ignored him at first, you know, 'Yeah, yeah, I'll be right out.' He yells, 'No. Come out now!' So I run out, thinking something had happened, and I looked up and stopped mid-sentence. I couldn't even speak because I saw this thing up there. You could see the bottom; it was silvery, and it was flying very slowly. There was a white light shining around the rim and a red light on the top. I could hear the traffic on the East River Drive, I could hear the helicopters across the river, but this thing was silent. We started to watch it drift down, tilt slightly, and it was flying below rooftops. It was the most amazing sight." Another surreal experience that never came to fruition was a reunion with his Beatle band mates, which Lennon was seriously considering, according to Pang. "He asked me if I thought it was a good idea. I told him I thought it'd be great! Because the two of you would be unbeatable, it would be amazing. I told the story to Paul years later, and it was later confirmed by Derek Taylor [the Beatles press officer], who had a postcard from John, which said that he 'was thinking about visiting the Macs down in New Orleans.' " With Lennon's untimely death in 1980, the possibility was voided forever. "It's 25 years. There's no significance, because with each year that goes by, it's hard for me to believe that he's gone. It just puts back a memory for me that he's not here," Pang says. "It's just heartbreaking for me; I'm sure for Yoko, for Julian, for Cynthia, for all of us who loved him dearly." While the true history and depth of their relationship continues to leak out as years go by, Pang's moments with Lennon are what she holds most dear. "My time to think about John is thinking of his birthday, because we were both October babies. We always used to give each other chocolate cake, because he loved chocolate; he was a big chocolate-cake lover. My celebrations with him, his life, not his death. The memories of him getting together with his pals -- he jammed with Jagger, he jammed with Paul, with Harry Nilsson. All this was going on in this short time period: his time with his son Julian, the time he finally got up to sing a song with Elton, the times he was writing music and I was his sounding board. The picture of him in that New York City T-shirt, which is the one everyone remembers, that was taken on our rooftop. All those little moments." While Yoko tries to maintain control on the public perception of Lennon, Pang says the truth about her relationship with him is out there. "When you see the story and you lay it out, it's
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: The Passing Of Bob Pratt - Cohen From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 10:41:18 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:01:11 -0500 Subject: Re: The Passing Of Bob Pratt - Cohen Hello again to all List-members and lurkers, If anyone out there is familiar with my web-site, you've probably wondered why I hadn't written this yet. I have some important material on the site concerning Bob. However, many people may not have realized _why_ it was important. This past month has been hectic at my home with some family happenings (My wife broke her ankle and my daughter had another baby). So, a few nights ago when I was reviewing UpDates posts to see what was new, I was shocked to read that Bob Pratt had passed away. I went to sleep in deep thought about him and have to admit I was so emotionally moved I couldn't write this until today. Interestingly, a personal discovery I just made from reading various posts made by others concerning Bob was that Bob and I had something in common; neither of our wives have been quite able to understand why we have been (had been) researching what we researched all these years. (But they love us for ourselves anyway. How the hell is that possible?) I'm truly sorry I had never gotten this clue from him in any of our letter exchanges. It would have made for interesting conversation. At any rate, I must say I was incredibly relieved to find that there are a number of people out there who have read Bob's extraordinary web-site and feel basically the way I do concerning his monumental efforts in the UFO field; i.e. at least _some_ people feel there was honesty in his investigations and his research is important. Hopefully, it will be more than just "some." http://www.bobpratt.org/ Until Bob passed away, I hadn't seen that much written on the net by others concerning him, and erroneously thought that people in general might possibly have negated the importance of his research simply because he had worked for the National Enquirer those many years ago, certainly an understandable conclusion for those that know the Enquirer and are familiar with its headlines. Many of us old enough to remember the 1970's should remember at least the headlines of some of the articles he had written for that tabloid. You'd see them in the supermarket while you would be paying for your food. Yet, as unbelievable as it must sound to some out there, I firmly believe his life's research is more important than one would at first be led to think. One question that had been on my mind for years was "If there was _no_ truth to any of the Enquirer articles that were published back in the early 1970's, what on earth was Hynek doing being involved with that tabloid?" It just didn't make any sense to me. I did some research and finally got my personal answer to this question. This is what happened and how. Sometime 1990, while looking back over some old cases, I discovered a description of the object I had seen back in 1967. I was really surprised because I had missed it completely back then. Buried deep in the "sensationalistic" details of the following case was a report by a gas station owner who claimed he had seen an object which closely matched that which I reported on my site. The description was one of the few that I had in my possession, after collecting articles for years trying to explain my own sighting to myself. It didn't match the sighting of the craft Hickson and Parker claimed they had been abducted onto. I wouldn't have thought much about it anyway at the time because it was an abduction case and I refused to look at any of them. Twelve years later the following occurred. In April 2002, in an ongoing exchange I had with Wendy Connors, I accidentally discovered for myself that the Enquirer version of the Hickson and Parker Pascagoula case was accurate back to it's source, a police recording of the police interrogation of Hickson and Parker which, by the way, anyone can order from Wendy to check for themselves against the July 28th, 1974 Enquirer article from the library. You can hear Hickson and Parker's voices on the CD along with the questioning officers. The article was based on excerpts from the Ralph and Judy Blum book "Beyond Earth; Man's Contact with UFOs." http://www.cohenufo.org/index.html#connorshicksparkr I was totally amazed by this as I was always extremely careful to stay away from using anything that had ever been written in that tabloid because of those same headlines I mentioned previously, but I couldn't deny that this article was accurate to source. I heard it with my own ears and matched it against the original article from the Enquirer. There was virtually complete accuracy there. That meant the Blum book was equally accurate as the Enquirer material which came from that book. That really was an eye-opener for me. It said to me I probably was right about Hynek. i.e. at least _some_ of those crazy Enquirer articles may have had some solid basis in fact. (Sounds nuts, right?) Ralph Blum states at the beginning of the H & P article that "In 1973, NBC had arranged for Dr. Hynek to come to New York to consult about a documentary program on UFOs." The Pascagoula case happened right at that time. Blum states "Dr. Hynek was already on his way to New York on October 12 when the wire services carried the story that a UFO had landed in Pascagoula, Mississippi and two men had been 'floated' aboard by 'creatures." Twenty four hours later I found myself on a plane headed for Mississippi accompanied by Dr. Hynek, who had cancelled all his plans because Pascagoula sounded like an authentic UFO. --- RALPH BLUM---" Then I thought to myself "Cohen, this is an abduction case. What the hell are you doing reading this." Hynek cancelled NBC to fly down for this case? What does Bob Pratt have to do with all this? Well, not too long thereafter, I discovered Bob's amazing web-site which was another rude awakening. I had suspected there might be some shred of legitimacy in some of those Enquirer articles because Hynek had become involved in it, but I had no way to prove it. Now, here was Bob Pratt saying to the world that after writing those articles, investigating them first hand and failing to come up with convincing evidence disproving some of them, _he too_ spent the rest of his life trying to prove what he felt he had discovered for himself. (And McDonald had discovered for _himself_, etc.) http://www.cohenufo.org/hynek.enquir.html#discovbobpratt I immediately decided to write him concerning some information I had researched, analyzed and posted regarding Dr. Hynek and the National Enquirer. Bob was gracious enough to reply and that led to what I felt were some excellent and informative discussions concerning what was going on back when all those UFO articles appeared in the Enquirer. http://www.cohenufo.org/webpstcoms.html#bobpratt Those conversations confirmed certain historical things I had researched concerning Hynek and I found myself revising some of what I had written due to various things Bob said to me. However, from what I could tell, the basic thoughts I had concerning Hynek were still pretty much correct. Bob had stated Hynek had left the panel when he realized the Enquirer was not serious about funding UFO research. Just for the record, thereafter, CUFOS came into existence. Since Hynek was an integral part of my web-site, I had decided it was also important to write something concerning Hynek's relationship with the Enquirer back then as I felt that some people might tend to think his research likewise tainted in general because of that relationship. So I set out to explain how Hynek wound up in that setting in the first place. I gathered as much supporting evidence as I could in that endeavor and then, when I felt I had it all together, wrote an article refuting Richard Dolan's theory that Hynek was a secret agent for the CIA (or Air Force). http://www.cohenufo.org/Hynek/hynk_mole3_cohn.htm and another one which covers the history of that period a little more thoroughly. http://www.cohenufo.org/Hynek/hynk_mole2_cohn.htm. Just to sum it up, the reason I've mentioned all this in this note about Bob is because a) I proved to myself that at least one article in the Enquirer was accurate back to source. I wondered how many others were likewise accurate. Bob was writing articles for the Enquirer in that general time period. b) Hynek was historically important to this whole thing and Bob respected him and had contact with him. c) Bob told me he and Dr. Hynek had eventually become friends due to their mutual interest and investigations into UFOs. I am pretty sure Bob, himself, had no idea that his respect for Hynek, and his own quest for the "truth" concerning UFOs would wind up consuming the rest of _his_ life. d) Therefore, it seems rather obvious that Bob's research is most likely sincere and important; and furthermore, from my conversations with him, I am pretty certain that if he were still alive, he would probably be very happy to have the air cleared concerning Dr. Hynek. http://www.cohenufo.org/BPratt_conversations.htm With the above knowledge fully under one's belt (make of it what you will), Bob's passing is a great loss to the UFO community because we can no longer just write him and ask him his remembrances concerning those by-gone days and various other information we might want to get at concerning those many cases he investigated. This researcher is deeply saddened by his passing and hopes that more people will be stimulated to take a really close look at Bob's diligent investigations and perhaps, take into consideration some of the things I and others have written concerning same along the way. It is also my thought some of the high-strangeness cases Bob researched were of the type Dr. Hynek and several UFO groups were searching for at the time when Hynek found himself being forced to seek out any means possible of getting others to take a look at what he, himself, had been unable to reconcile during his approximately 20 year stint examining UFO reports for the Air Force. http://www.cohenufo.org/BPratt%20Select%20TriCases.html By the way, forgetting everything else I've written here, I found that I liked Bob Pratt. He seemed to be a really, nice, amiable person. You can see from his web-site where he was coming from. (But go there soon or you will miss it.) As has been written by another list member, Bob's magnificent efforts posted on the Internet probably won't be there much longer so we all should glean what we can concerning same. Here's the link again. http://www.bobpratt.org/ Bob, you'll definitely be missed. Thank you so much for everything you did. You certainly gave it _your_ best shot. You can be truly proud of what you left for us. You stayed the course to the end and remained an uplifting spirit throughout it all. Very sincerely,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Not All UFO Sightings Can Be Explained From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:03:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:03:43 -0500 Subject: Not All UFO Sightings Can Be Explained Source: Norfolk Eastern Daily Press - Norfolk, England, UK http://tinyurl.com/9nhfd 09 December 2005 Not All UFO Sightings Can Be Explained by Ben Kendall Most of the Unexplained Flying Objects seen each year turn out to be meteorites - but, of the UFO sightings reported in Norfolk each year, experts say at least 5pc cannot be explained. Now a series of lectures exploring Life on Earth and Beyond looks set to pit the cynics against the believers as it asks: are there aliens out there and, if so, are they heading our way? According to Mark Lawrik-Thompson, chairman of Norwich Astronomical Society, who will give the lectures, the respective answers are probably yes followed by probably no. Up to 100 sightings are reported in the county - dubbed a Bermuda Triangle of paranormal activity - each year. While 95pc can be attributed to human technology or natural events, the remainder baffle astronomers. Mr Lawrik-Thompson said: "The Earth orbits the sun which, in universal terms, is a pretty ordinary star. "When you consider there are 100,000 million other stars in our galaxy, millions of galaxies in the universe and that the universe is 13 billion years old, it is more logical to say that there is life out there than there isn't. "Whether that life is at the same stage of evolution as on Earth, whether it is capable of exploring space and whether we can detect it, all remains to be seen." He also believes that by understanding the processes and conditions that led to life on Earth, scientists can better understand where else life could exist. While many dismiss UFO sightings as figments of a creative imagination, Mr Lawrik-Thompson said the figures at least demand closer examination. "Over the past five to 10 years the number of sightings has grown, possibly because of an increased awareness," he said. "When a sighting is reported we can normally look at the description, look at the time and position at which it was sighted and explain it away. "But in a significant minority of cases there is no explanation. Is it really that difficult to believe there is life out there? "These lectures will not be na=EFve but nor will they be overly cynical. They take an open-minded scientific approach to explore all of the issues." In his lectures at Seething Observatory, Mr Lawrik-Thompson will explore the possibilities created by new space-piercing telecopes so powerful they can detect an astronaut on the moon wiggling his finger. Visitors will get a chance to look through the society's telescope to get stunning views of Mars, the Moon and, later in the evening and with weather permitting, Saturn.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Time Flies When You're Suing For UFO Records From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:06:37 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:06:37 -0500 Subject: Time Flies When You're Suing For UFO Records Source: Pttsburgh Tribune Review - Pennsylvania, USA http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/tribpm/s_402458.html Friday, December 9, 2005 Time Flies When You're Suing For UFO Records By The Associated Press Researchers and witnesses who believe a UFO landed in the woods of Western Pennsylvania 40 years ago are marking another anniversary today: two years since a lawsuit was filed to get NASA to release records of what happened. A National Aeronautics and Space Administration spokesman says there's no cover-up -- the "UFO" was a Russian satellite, but government records documenting it have been lost. Leslie Kean, an investigative reporter backed by the Sci Fi Channel, and a group connected to the cable TV station sued NASA two years ago under the Freedom of Information Act. Kean wants files on what happened Dec. 9, 1965, in the unincorporated hamlet of Kecksburg, Westmoreland County. Witnesses described a "fireball" in the evening sky, and a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 to 15 feet high and 8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently in the woods, according to media accounts at the time. Kean's attorney Lee Helfrich said she'll file a new court motion today seeking to "jump start" NASA's search for the information. "NASA has been stonewalling for too long," Helfrich said. "What is NASA trying to hide?" Nothing, NASA spokesman Dave Steitz said. The object appeared to be a Russian satellite that re-entered the atmosphere and broke up. NASA experts studied fragments from the object, but records of what they found were lost in the 1990s, Steitz said. "We boxed (the case) up and that was the end of it," he said. "Unfortunately, the documents supporting those findings were misplaced." Kean said Nicholas L. Johnson, NASA's chief scientist for orbital debris, determined the object couldn't be a Russian satellite or any other manmade object, after studying the orbital paths of known satellites and other records from 1965. Witnesses claim military personnel cordoned off the site, removed the object and threatened residents who questioned the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Re: Hunt For The Skinwalker - Myers From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 12:37:28 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:10:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Hunt For The Skinwalker - Myers >>From: Colm Kelleher <colm_kelleher.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:28:57 -0800 >>Subject: Hunt For The Skinwalker >"Hunt for the Skinwalker is a well told and true account of the >amazing strangeness discovered by a scientific team doing >investigations for the National Institute of Discovery Science. >Reading this account was like hearing, word for word, for the >second time the reports of the field investigators." - Edgar >Mitchell, Sc.D. Astronaut, NIDS SAC ><snip> Knapp and Kelleher are going to be on the Jeff Rense show this coming Monday, 12-DEC-05. The book is being shipped to me so hopefully I'll have by the end of the week.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 9 Daily Express Rendlesham Article From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:37:24 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:14:40 -0500 Subject: Daily Express Rendlesham Article On November 19 the Daily Express ran a double page article on the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident. They commissioned the article from me in the run-up to the 25th anniversary of the UFO sightings. It's not available online, but the newspaper only made very minor editorial amendments, such as changing "light- alls" into "lamps", so what follows under the headline below is my original submission. Daily Express, Saturday November 19, 2005 What is the truth about Britain's greatest UFO mystery? It is nearly 25 years since a strange craft landed in a Suffolk forest. When asked about the incident, Margaret Thatcher replied "You can't tell the people." Here, the Government's former UFO expert reveals the amazing story. On 21 May 1997 a former Prime Minister made an enigmatic comment that appeared to confirm the reality of Britain's most famous UFO incident. The casual remark hinted at darker secrets and led to much debate among conspiracy theorists. The politician concerned was Baroness Thatcher and the implications of what she said are extraordinary. The remark was made at a charity function. London-based socialite and author Georgina Bruni had for some time been researching the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident, intrigued by hints dropped by various diplomatic, military and political friends. She had been sceptical about the whole UFO mystery and had initially thought that the subject was awash with cultists and crackpots. But Rendlesham was different and so, when she met Baroness Thatcher at the dinner, Bruni took the opportunity to put the former PM on the spot. Was there any truth to the extraordinary rumours concerning what happened in Rendlesham Forest? What did the government really know about UFOs? Was it a serious issue or just pie in the sky? Bruni was expecting a bland dismissal of the story. The official position of the Ministry of Defence, after all, was that no evidence existed to suggest that UFOs were extraterrestrial in origin. Then the former PM dropped her bombshell. "UFOs?" she said. "You can't tell the people." Bruni was astounded and pressed her point. What did she mean? Baroness Thatcher calmly repeated her remark, before departing. I wasn't at the dinner, but heard about the conversation very shortly afterwards. The reason I heard about it so quickly was that Georgina Bruni decided to call me at 2am to tell me what had happened. She called me because I used to run the British Government's UFO Project, based at the Ministry of Defence, a position I'd held from 1991 to 1994. Georgina Bruni had interviewed me in the course of her research into UFOs and we bumped into each other from time to time at various social functions. Once I got over my sense of humour failure at having been called at 2am, I quickly grasped the significance of what I was told. I got up, went to my study and began to make some notes, all the time quizzing Georgina about every nuance of her brief encounter with the former PM. For me, this was a revelation, because out of all the thousands of UFO sightings investigated by the Ministry of Defence over the years, the Rendlesham Forest incident was the one that stood out. It was the case that we couldn't ignore, despite best efforts to find some conventional explanation for what happened. This case was the Holy Grail and Baroness Thatcher's remark put the events into a new light. So what actually happened at Rendlesham Forest and what is it that makes this event the most extraordinary UFO encounter ever to have taken place in the UK? As we approach the 25th anniversary of Britain's closest encounter, it's time to re-open the MOD's spookiest X-File. Late on Christmas night 1980 and in the early hours of Boxing Day, strange lights were seen in Rendlesham Forest. This might not sound particularly significant. People see UFOs all the time and when I was running the UFO Project I used to receive between two and three hundred reports each year, most of which could be explained as misidentifications of aircraft lights, meteors, weather balloons and suchlike. What made this sighting interesting was the fact that the witnesses were United States Air Force personnel based at RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge in Suffolk. Rendlesham Forest lies between the twin bases and as the Cold War was still decidedly frosty, a UFO sighting at two of the nation's most sensitive military sites was most decidedly of interest. In the early hours of 26 December, duty personnel reported lights so bright, they feared an aircraft had crashed. They sought and obtained permission to go off-base and investigate. They didn't find a crashed aircraft - they found a UFO. The three-man patrol from the 81st Security Police Squadron - Jim Penniston, John Burroughs and Ed Cabansag - saw a small metallic craft, moving through the trees. At one point it appeared to land in a small clearing. They approached cautiously and Penniston got close enough to see strange markings on the side of the craft, which he likened to Egyptian hieroglyphs. He made some rapid sketches in his police notebook. Later on, because of the complicated legal and jurisdictional position of United States Air Force bases in the UK, police from Suffolk Constabulary were called out to the site where the object had apparently landed. They conducted a brief but inconclusive examination and then left. But three indentations were visible in the clearing and when mapped, they formed the shape of an equilateral triangle. A Geiger counter was used to check the site and the readings peaked markedly in the depressions where the object - possibly on legs of some sort - had briefly come to Earth. News of the UFO encounter spread quickly around the bases and came to the attention of the Deputy Base Commander, Lieutenant Colonel Charles Halt. He was sceptical, but had the witnesses write up official reports, including sketches of what they had seen. The following evening Halt was at a social function when a young airman burst in and ran up to the colonel. "Sir," he stammered, "It's back." Halt looked confused. "What?" he retorted, "What's back?" "The UFO, Sir - the UFO's back." Halt remained sceptical but gathered together a small team and went out into the forest to investigate. He subsequently stated that he went out with no expectation of seeing anything. In his own words, he said that his intention was to "debunk" the whole affair. But he didn't debunk it because he too encountered the UFO, becoming one of the highest ranking military officers ever to go on the record about a UFO sighting. As he and his men tracked the UFO, their radios began to malfunction and powerful mobile 'light-alls', taken to illuminate the forest, mysteriously began to cut out. One piece of equipment that didn't malfunction was the hand-held tape recorder that the colonel took with him to document his investigation. The tape recording still survives and one can hear the rising tension in Halt's voice and the voices of his men, as the UFO approaches: "I see it too... it's back again... it's coming this way... there's no doubt about it... this is weird... it looks like an eye winking at you... it almost burns your eyes... he's coming toward us now... now we're observing what appears to be a beam coming down to the ground... one object still hovering over Woodbridge base... beaming down". At one point the tension in their voices almost seems to become panic as the UFO makes a close approach and fires light beams down on Halt and his men. Following these events, Charles Halt wrote an official report of the incident and sent it to the Ministry of Defence. Although somewhat innocuously entitled "Unexplained Lights", his report described the first night's UFO as being "metallic in appearance and triangular in shape... a pulsing red light on top and a bank of blue lights underneath... the animals on a nearby farm went into a frenzy." He went on to detail the radiation readings taken from the landing site and set out the details of his own sighting. Halt sent his report to the Ministry of Defence, to the section where, a little over ten years later, I would spend three years researching and investigating UFO sightings. The report went to my predecessors, who begun an investigation. But they were hampered by a critical mistake that was to have dire consequences. For whatever reason - and it may have been nothing more than a simple typographical error - Charles Halt's report gave incorrect dates for the incident. So when the MOD checked the radar tapes, they were looking at the wrong days. Looking at radar evidence is a critical part of any UFO investigation. There have been plenty of spectacular UFO sightings over the years, many correlated by radar. The MOD's comprehensive UFO files detail several such cases, including ones where RAF pilots encountered UFOs and gave chase. Unsuccessfully, I might add. In the absence of any radar data that might confirm the presence of the Rendlesham Forest UFOs, the investigation petered out. Yet, as I was to discover years later, the UFO had been tracked, after all. I spoke to a former RAF radar operator called Nigel Kerr. He had been stationed at RAF Watton at Christmas 1980 and had received a call from somebody at RAF Bentwaters. They wanted to know if there was anything unusual on his radar screen. He looked and for three or four sweeps, something did show up, directly over the base. But it faded away and no official report was ever made. It was only years later that Kerr even heard of the Rendlesham Forest incident and realised he might have a missing piece of the puzzle. In the apparent absence of radar data to verify the presence of the UFO, arguably the most critical piece of evidence was never followed up. The Defence Intelligence Staff had assessed the radiation readings taken at the landing site and judged them to be "significantly higher than the average background". In fact, they were about seven times what would have been expected for the area concerned. So what are we to make of all this? UFO believers are convinced that the sightings involved an extraterrestrial spacecraft. They still hold skywatches in the forest and claim to see UFOs on a regular basis. The sceptical theories are almost as bizarre, with people variously suggesting that the highly trained military witnesses actually saw the lights of a police car, or the beam from the local lighthouse. "Lighthouses don't fly", Charles Halt observed, incredulously. More rational sceptical theories include the testing of some sort of prototype aircraft, but the bottom line is that while at any given time there are things being developed that you won't see at the Farnborough airshow for 10 or 15 years, we know where we fly our own hardware. The 'black projects' theory doesn't fly. The initial United States Air Force report to the MOD was obtained by American UFO researchers in 1983, under the Freedom of Information Act. But it was not until 2001 that the rest of the file came to light. Georgina Bruni had requested a number of documents on the incident under the Code of Practice on Access to Government Information - the forerunner to Britain's Freedom of Information Act. She had also enlisted the help of former Chief of the Defence Staff Lord Hill-Norton - himself a firm believer in UFOs. The MOD, despite what conspiracy theorists allege, is committed to open government and was happy to release the file. It can now be viewed in entirety on the MOD website. In the league tables of FOI requests, questions about UFOs are near the top. The MOD and the National Archives are bombarded with requests about UFOs but have a rolling programme of disclosure. These are the real X-Files and they are being released. As the 25th anniversary of this UFO encounter approaches, there is tremendous interest in the incident. UFO enthusiasts are planning an anniversary vigil. The Forestry Commission - which recently created a 'UFO Trail' in the forest - is planning a commemorative event. Several television documentaries are being made and there's even talk of a Hollywood movie. But 25 years on, despite the wealth of documentation to have emerged and despite the testimony of the witnesses themselves, we are no
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Secrecy News -- 12/09/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:52:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:33:30 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 12/09/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 112 December 9, 2005 ** LARGER MILITARY ROLE IN DISASTER RESPONSE DRAWS FLAK ** CONFERENCE REPORT ON THE USA PATRIOT ACT ** HABEAS CORPUS AND GUANTANAMO DETAINEES (CRS) LARGER MILITARY ROLE IN DISASTER RESPONSE DRAWS FLAK The idea that the U.S. military should take a greater role in responding to disasters such as Hurricane Katrina, as proposed by President Bush and others, has elicited strong opposition among state leaders and national guard officials, one of whom suggested that it amounted to "domestic regime change." Critics were exercised by a recent statement from Adm. Timothy Keating of U.S. Northern Command (NORTHCOM) who recommended that the Department of Defense be given "complete authority" for response to disasters like Hurricane Katrina. "Although usually couched in terms of 'support for governors', the NORTHCOM proposals would bring about a fundamental change in the emergency governance of states impacted by large scale disasters," complained Major General Timothy Lowenberg of the Washington state National Guard. "Some might liken this to a policy of domestic regime change," he wrote in an October 31 email message to National Guard colleagues. A copy of the email message from Maj. Gen. Lowenberg, a portion of which was quoted by the Associated Press on November 4, was obtained by Secrecy News and is available here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/12/lowen103105.html The growing domestic role of the U.S. military is prompting anxiety in other quarters as well, as described in "Warriors, rescuers, spooks" by Terje Langeland, Colorado Springs Independent, December 8: http://www.csindy.com/csindy/2005-12-08/cover.html CONFERENCE REPORT ON THE USA PATRIOT ACT House and Senate conferees reached agreement on legislation to extend and reauthorize the USA Patriot Act, but the conference agreement immediately drew opposition from Democratic members, who were excluded from key negotiations over the bill, and others. A copy of the conference report, which appeared in the Congressional Record, may be found here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_rpt/hrpt109-333.html Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), who said he would seek further modifications of the bill, explained his view of its defects here: http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200512/120805.html HABEAS CORPUS AND GUANTANAMO DETAINEES (CRS) The impact of controversial legislation sponsored by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) to deprive suspected enemy combatants of habeas corpus rights in favor of a more limited appeal mechanism is examined in a new report from the Congressional Research Service obtained by Secrecy News. See "Guantanamo Detainees: Habeas Corpus Challenges in Federal Court," December 7, 2005: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33180.pdf A dozen retired federal judges this week urged Congress to reject the Graham measure, which is co-sponsored by Senators Levin and Kyl. "In cases of executive detention, district court review of habeas petition is central to fulfilling the Great Writ's historic purpose: to ensure that individuals are not unlawfully detained," they wrote, in a December 7 letter coordinated by the Brennan Center at NYU Law School. See: http://brennancenter.org/programs/downloads/Judges%20Letter12.7.05.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: Lennon UFOs And Chocolate Cake - Faccenda From: Joe Faccenda <uforth.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:25:27 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:35:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Lennon UFOs And Chocolate Cake - Faccenda >Source: PopMatters.Com - Evanston, Illinois, USA >http://tinyurl.com/7a97c >8 December 2005 >UFOs And Chocolate Cake >May Pang reveals the John Lennon Yoko doesn't want you to know. >by Michael Christopher >Walls and Bridges also features a curious sentence in the liner >notes in which Lennon states, "On the 23rd Aug. 1974 at 9 >o'clock I saw a U.F.O. -- J.L." >"The fact is there are only three women John Lennon lived with." >May Pang says. "I happen to be one of them." <snip> I was fortunate enought to contact May Pang about a second UFO sighting she and another witness had several years later, also in New York. The report can be seen at:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: The Passing Of Bob Pratt - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 22:29:35 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:37:17 -0500 Subject: Re: The Passing Of Bob Pratt - Dickenson >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 10:41:18 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Passing Of Bob Pratt <snip> >If anyone out there is familiar with my web-site, you've >probably wondered why I hadn't written this yet. I have some >important material on the site concerning Bob. However, many >people may not have realized _why_ it was important. This past >month has been hectic at my home with some family happenings (My >wife broke her ankle and my daughter had another baby). So, a >few nights ago when I was reviewing UpDates posts to see what >was new, I was shocked to read that Bob Pratt had passed away. I >went to sleep in deep thought about him and have to admit I was >so emotionally moved I couldn't write this until today. <snip> Congratulations Jerry, Your well referenced survey of Bob Pratt's investigations and research has said what many of us feel. As an observer and not an investigator, have looked around and found only a few sincere, non-ego-tripping people in this field, as with most other fields. And Bob was, as far as I'm concerned, always helpful to those asking for advice or for factual evidence. Bob Pratt was surely one of the sincere and pragmatic investigators. Can't say anything more of anyone.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Pine Bush Outgrows UFOs From: Scott Carr <sardy_2000.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:29:54 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:42:44 -0500 Subject: Pine Bush Outgrows UFOs Sadly, this is what I've been predicting for Pine Bush - America's most unpopular UFO hotspot - since the heyday of UFO watching in the 1990s, and the run of "The Flying Saucer Gazette... ----- Source: The Times Herald-Record - Middletown, New York, USA http://tinyurl.com/c8p6q December 09, 2005 Pine Bush Outgrows UFOs By Steve Israel Times Herald-Record sisrael.nul-record.com Pine Bush - Where have all the UFOs gone? Check out the list of sightings on the menu of the Cup and (Flying) Saucer diner. The list stops in 1999. Talk to Butch Hunt at his Main Street barbershop, where the walls are plastered with reports of sightings. He hasn't heard of one in years. But one guy who gets the scoop from the mouths of thousands of locals knows why fewer folks have seen UFOs in Pine Bush. It's because of all of the growth in thi s hamlet on the Ulster County border. Five years ago, 7,800 people lived here, in this Northeast capital of UFOs. Today, the number is 10,000. In 1999, the year of the last UFO sighting listed on the Cup and Saucer menu, 251 building permits were issued. Last year, that figure nearly doubled. "With all the development, all the fields are gone," says dentist Sal Genco, with a wink in his voice, "so there's no place for them to land." And with all of those new lights from new buildings, the skies are brighter. That means fewer chances to see the lights of a UFO. The UFO believers agree with nonbeliever Genco. While they might claim UFOs are still around, they say there are fewer places to see them in this hamlet framed by the Shawangunk Ridge, where green fields are sprouting pastel McMansions. "We've lost all the places to go UFO-watching," says Sue Wiand of the United Friends Observer Society, which meets in neighboring Wal ker Valley. "We have to go to Shawangunk (in Ulster)." The lack of sightings - or landings - sheds light on a community that's changing as fast as any in the fastest-growing county in the state. Old timers and newcomers know that. Once upon a time not so long ago, the fields around Pine Bush were filled with some 30 dairy farms, says Gerry Hufcut, whose grandfather and uncle ran one. "Now," he says, "there's only one." He says this in the Cup and Saucer, which was built on land that was once a farm. Now it's surrounded by hundreds of condos and senior town houses, a hotel, a Hannaford's supermarket and a lone weathered barn. "At 5 p.m., we have a rush hour," says Dino Mavros, who bought the diner because of the development. All of that growth in this hamlet with one McDonald's and a Main Street with two barber shops and restaurants serving everything from vegan dishes to Korean kimchi doesn't mean the UFOs have vanished , the believers say. But with fewer places to see the UFOs, and with so many people spending so much time commuting, it does mean the character of this community is changing - perhaps forever. "The people moving here are defining Pine Bush," says UFO Society president Bill Wiand, "Not the UFOs."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:30:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:44:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Chichikov >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:37:24 -0000 >Subject: Daily Express Rendlesham Article <snip> >Then the former PM dropped her bombshell. "UFOs?" she said. >"You can't tell the people." Bruni was astounded and pressed her >point. What did she mean? Baroness Thatcher calmly repeated her >remark, before departing. <snip> Nick, Isn't there another interpretation of that remark? Baroness Thatcher might conceivably have meant that people *will* insist
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:37:31 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:45:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: ufoupdates.nul >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >Date: 12/9/2005 1:52:41 PM Pacific Standard Time >Subj: UFO UpDate: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >Source: The Times-Leader - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, USA http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/local/13360634.htm >Thu, Dec. 08, 2005 >Sci Fi Channel-Backed Researcher Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >Joe Mandak >Associated Press >PITTSBURGH - Researchers and witnesses who believe a UFO landed >in the woods of western Pennsylvania 40 years ago are marking >another anniversary on Friday: two years since a lawsuit was >filed to get NASA to release records of what happened. >A National Aeronautics and Space Administration spokesman says >there's no cover-up: the "UFO" was a Russian satellite but >government records documenting it have been lost. What was NASA doing with a Russian satellite?? That would have been a foreign intelligence material not within NASA's jurisdiction but within the AF's at Foreign Technology Division and its Project MOON DUST, whose jurisdiction was widely known throughout the US Government and certainly NASA knew that. >Leslie Kean, an investigative reporter backed by the Sci Fi >Channel, and a group connected to the cable TV channel sued the >NASA two years ago under the Freedom of Information Act. >Kean wants files on what happened Dec. 9, 1965, in the >unincorporated hamlet of Kecksburg, about 30 miles southeast of >Pittsburgh. Witnesses described a "fireball" in the evening sky, >and a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 to 15 feet high and >8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently in the woods, >according to media accounts at the time. <snip> >"NASA has been stonewalling for too long, and in the process has >given us a great record to show that it's recalcitrant and >acting in bad faith," Helfrich said. "What is NASA trying to >hide?" ... Speaking of "bad faith" let's see some "good faith" here and show us the purported 1965-6 "media accounts at the time" that allegedly describe a "a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 to 15 feet high and 8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently in the woods." Or is this "metallic acorn" an invention made up _decades_ later to try to horn in on the Roswell publicity bandwagon? Also in "good faith" show us _all_ the "fireball" reports that came in throughout the Midwest and Northeast on the same date and almost exact same time. And while you're at it _prove_ that all clock times reported were accurate and precise to within 1 minute by every single person when in reality most people are
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 The Vatican UFOs & Secretum Omega From: Criss Barbato <omegasecret.nul> <omegasecret@libero.it> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 23:43:45 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:56:57 -0500 Subject: The Vatican UFOs & Secretum Omega My name is Cristoforo Barbato I'm an Italian independent UFO researcher, in the last 7 years I have worked and writing for different UFO magazines and frontier studies published in Italy: NotiziarioUFO, Dossier Alieni, Stargate, Extra Terrestre and Stargate Magazine. I have also collaborated to the realization of two encyclopedias on the UFOs subject entitled UFO Dossier X, of the Fabbri Edizioni and Stargate - Enigmi dal Cosmo of Curcio Editore. Besides I have participated as chairman in different natrional symposium and conference on the UFOs where I have had the possibility to know important UFOs researcher both Italians how international. I send you following information that I think will interest you. ----- Vatican and UFO: Secretum Omega On the day 30 of April in the Palazzo della Provincia of Pescara took place the Conference "UFO? the Truth is Top Secret, from Area 51 to Planet X", organized by the Ufobserver Cultural Association. During the conference I related about underground bases in the USA and dedicated the last fifteen minutes of my speech to a very short summary of my work during last five years in a new direction that, starting from now, will be the leading topic i my future lectures. This is a little anticipation. In the year 2000 I was working in Rome as an editor in the Stargate Magazine and I wrote many articles about Fatima Apparitions, their famous Third Secret and other Vatican State-related mysteries. After the publication of these articles I started to receive many e-mails from a person who qualified himself as a Vatican insider longing to know me for my researches about Fatima. From those e-mails rose up the story of a presumed Vatican Intelligence Agency named S.I.V. code - Servizio Informazioni del Vaticano. After one year of such kind of epistolary contacts (in the meantime that person had revealed to me he was a S.I.V. member from the Jesuit order working in structures of the Holy See and could I verify that these informations were true), we finally met in a public place in Rome and I realised that he knew much more thanf what he had said in his mails. Moreover, he sent to me some stuff including a video (shown during the Pescara Conference) regarding observations of something like a tenth planet approaching the Solar Sistem. Such video had been presumedly taped in 1995 from a space probe named Siloe and its images had been later sent to a secret radio-telescope hidden in an unused oil-refinig plant in Alaska, totally managed by Jesuits. According to this person the reason to establish the S.I.V. was the meeting with an Alien delegation at Muroc Air Field Base in February 1954 in presence of president Dwight Eisenhower and James Francis McIntyre, bishop of Los Angeles. After that incredible event McIntyre flew to Rome to refer everything to Pope Pius XII who decided to found the S.I.V with the aim to get every possible information about Aliens and how they interacted with the American Government. From then bishop McIntyre and Detroit Archbishop Edward Mooney became the main information co-ordinators between the USA and the Vatican State. Incredibly, later on there should have been some direct personal meetings between S.I.V. members and a nordic-looking race of Aliens coming from the Pleiades. These Aliens presumedly warned humans against another alien race met by the Americans in the California Desert. These meetings between S.I.V and Aliens took place mainly in the USA territory but also - twice - in the Vatican State, precisely in Vatican Gardens at the Papal Academy of Sciences in presence of Pope Pius XII. My Jesuit contact also confirmed to me the reality of the George Adamsky-John XXIII meeting and talked about some very interesting details about it. He also called "Secretum Omega" the highest secrecy level in S.I.V, equivalent to to the NATO Cosmic Top Secret. Thanks to your attention.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: Hunt For The Skinwalker - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 23:08:35 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:58:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Hunt For The Skinwalker - Hall >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 12:37:28 -0800 >Subject: Re: Hunt For The Skinwalker >>>From: Colm Kelleher <colm_kelleher.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:28:57 -0800 >>>Subject: Hunt For The Skinwalker >>"Hunt for the Skinwalker is a well told and true account of the >>amazing strangeness discovered by a scientific team doing >>investigations for the National Institute of Discovery Science. >>Reading this account was like hearing, word for word, for the >>second time the reports of the field investigators." - Edgar >>Mitchell, Sc.D. Astronaut, NIDS SAC >Knapp and Kelleher are going to be on the Jeff Rense show this >coming Monday, 12-DEC-05. The book is being shipped to me so >hopefully I'll have by the end of the week. Well, that's certainly a wonderful scientific forum for serious discussion of anomalies (he says sarcastically).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:08:14 -1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:01:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:02:42 EST >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 03:54:29 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:30:32 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >>>Michael, here I would have to agree with you. I observed certain >>>violations of security when I was in Security Service myself, >>>but have heard many stories of security-type violations even in >>>the Aerospace industry. As a matter of fact, I just heard one >>>last night told to me by an ex-Lockheed worker. >>>The whole Roswell story coming out as it did from military >>>officers is a breech of security and I don't remember any of >>>them being prosecuted. >Yes, there are security violations all the time, some of them >minor and some of them not. Some people have been >court-maritaled for the violations and some haven't. >However, the security in the corporate world is different from >that in the military. I have seen how lax it can be in the >private world, so, suggesting Lockheed worker was violating >security with his latest tale tells us nothing about what >happens inside the military. It is two different things and two >different worlds. As you know, many corporations perform classified projects for various military departments. These projects are paid for by the military and have numerous 'military consultants' on the staff of the corporations. Security procedures for such projects have to satisfy strict standards in order to succesfully get the project. To separate the corporate world performing classified miliary projects from the military itself is not as easy as you would suggest. To simply generalize that corporate security is much more lax than in the military overlooks that when it comes to highly classified projects there are security standards that need to be maintained for future funding. In general, I have found more whistleblowers tend to come from a military background rather than the corporate world. This suggests the inverse of what you are arguing. >>Thanks Bill for the examples. I checked my notes after a >>conversation with Bob Dean, here's what I wrote concerning the >>security procedures when he read the Assessment: >>"Dean says that while he didn't have Ultra clearance, something >>that the Colonel and other officers possessed, he never had a >>problem in signing out the document out. When I asked how that >>could be given the security procedures that typically occur with >>UFO topics, Dean says that security procedures in SHOC were >>pretty relaxed for senior NCOs who were responsible for the >>efficient running of the war room. He says that as a senior NCO >>who was responsible for the duty rosters, he never got into >>trouble for signing out the Assessment from the vault for his >>private reading while in SHOC." (Personal Notes, Sept 16, 2005). >>So I think Dean's story is entirely plausible and that Kevin >>Randle's objection is an unrealistically rigid assessment of >>security procedures in military operations of which he has no >>direct experience. Dean served in SHOC, Randle hasn't. >Once again you've missed the point and I wonder if it hasn't >been on purpose. I have suggested that Dean's tale of seeing The >Assessment is a violation of security regulations. You have >agreed with that. I have said that the treatment of this "highly >classified" document was somewhat cavalier, which it was. Does >that mean the compromise didn't happen? Not in and of itself. >The real problems are much more complex and include the fact >that the supposed "Ultra" classification wasn't used at the time >and for what Dean said it was, the title sheet Dean supplied to >prove The Assessment existed has been shown to be a forgery, >and lack of any corroboration for the existence of The >Assessment are a very real problems. You addressed none of them, >except to say that it wasn't surprising there was no independent >corroboration. >So, my objections to Dean's story are not singular, nor are the >based on the way security was violated here, but on something >much more real. These are objections that have been ignored in >our various communications. I think we can agree that there has been no corroboration for Dean's story and that investigations by Timothy Good where not succesful in proving the existence of the Assessment. Dean's narration of events concerning him being given access to the Assessment certainly suggests that a security violation was occuring. His response is that as a senior NCO he had many perks and that the camaraderie in SHOC led to him having the privilege of signing out the Assessment on numerous occasions to read it while in the secure area of SHOC. Is it possible that a senior NCO in charge of the Duty Roster for officers in the SHOC war room would be given the privilege of actually signing out and reading classified documents above his security clearance? Yes, a violation had occured but is it plausible? Certainly if the officer in charge of operations SHOC approved Dean's viewing it, which happened when he was initially given the Assessment by the Colonel, then it might be argued that this was one of the privileges granted to Dean. It is plausible for events to have happened as Dean described. While we don't have proof, we have plausibility. This takes us to the question of intent. Dean has put his reputation on the line in coming forward. A man who reached the highest rank in the US military as an NCO is unlikely to just come forward and perpetrate a massive lie. There needs to be some track record of deception for something like that to occur. Yet his public career suggests both in the US Army and FEMA suggest a man of the highest integrity, so why would he threaten it all by perpetrating a massive hoax. For your evaluation to be correct, Dean would have to have been lying continuously over a 14 year period about the events he described. That is very unlikely as any who meet Dean quickly conclude in terms of his obvious integrity and sincerity. As far as the Ultra classification is concerned, you say that it was used by the British in the Second World War and that it was not used by NATO. So why wouldn't it be possible for NATO to introduce such a classification and successfully keep it secret? After all, isn't what that above top secret classification codes are supposed to achieve? As for the title sheet of the Assessment that was shown to be a forgery. As you say yourself, Dean claimed that he never said it was genuine. While you might protest he was spinning a negative result, that doesn't negate his claim. That's only your opinion. As for lack of corroboration for the Assessment, that is certainly a problem but it doesn't prove Dean lied. It just means that there is lack of corrobation for his claims. Nevertheless, given he served in SHOC, achieved the highest military honors possible for an NCO, all suggest a very dedicated and capable military man who served with distinction during his 27 year service. So why would someone like that come out and for 14 years consistently promote a hoax? That's very unlikely and leads to my and others conclusion that Dean is telling the truth. You ask why has Dean not suffered prosecution for his unauthorized disclosure, perhaps because he serves a function useful to those in control of Cosmic Watergate - controlled leak of information while maintaining plausible deniability. Surely you would agree that an acclimation program through the use of select whistleblowers would serve a useful function for controllers to guard against a suddent collapse of Cosmic Watergate, e.g., an ET mothership over New York City?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 22:11:34 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:04:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: <- UFO UpDates Subscrribers -> >Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 16:51:15 -0500 >Subject: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >Source: The Times-Leader - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, USA >http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/local/13360634.htm <snip> >Kean's attorney Lee Helfrich said she'll file a new court motion >on Friday seeking to "jump start" NASA's search for the >information. >"NASA has been stonewalling for too long, and in the process has >given us a great record to show that it's recalcitrant and >acting in bad faith," Helfrich said. "What is NASA trying to >hide?" >Nothing, NASA spokesman Dave Steitz said. >The object appeared to be a Russian satellite that re-entered >the atmosphere and broke up. NASA experts studied fragments from >the object, but records of what they found were lost in the >1990s, Steitz said. Didn't NASA and/or the military deny they were ever even _at_ the alleged crash site? This seems to be a major change in their story, which now sounds like a 'the dog ate my homework' excuse, as did Air Force's
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 18:26:21 -1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:08:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:51:34 EST >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:09:04 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:01 EST >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >But with >Dean, no one else who was in a position to know has come out to >say that yes, The Assessment did exist. To this point they have >universally denied that it did. Someone, somewhere, other than >Dean, should have provided a hint about it. No one has. >And, really, I'm not required to offer clear intent for the >fabrication of such a story. You, on the other hand, are >required to offer some proof, other than the "whistleblower" >sounds sincere. I'm confused as to why you will accept these >implausible stories without any corroboration and accept the >idea that their records have been altered or erased, when there >is much better evidence that these people simply are not telling >the truth. Rather than deal with this you simply suggest they >are red herrings and forget about it. There is much more than merely saying whistleblowers such as Dean sound sincere. It has been proved he was where he claimed to be. A senior NCO stationed in SHOC who performed a particular set of tasks that gave him access to highly classified documents. He had Top Secret clearance due to his earlier six year service as a commissioend officer, so when stationed at SHOC in 1963 he was able to get the required Cosmic clearance to work in SHOC. These are facts that have been investigated and documents exists to support many aspects of Dean's story. As for Dean's story being inplausible. You are incorrect. It's very plausible just unproved at the moment. >Intent can encompass many things. Dean has been able to travel >the world free, is compensated for his tales, and enjoys a >certain spotlight, all powerful incentives. Maybe his intent was >simply to inject himself into the UFO community. Your explanation doesn't make sense. Why would someone with such a distinguished military record just come forward and lie for 14 yers so he can attend a few conferences around the world to tell people a hoax? After all he was retired, had a military pension, and could do much to enjoy his retirement. And why would someone like that inject himself into the UFO community and face the ridicule and debunking that goes with coming forward with the kind of revelations he makes? As many know, there's not much money in the UFO field and this is a labor of love for many. Intent is important and one of the criteria to be used in assessing whistleblower credibility. <snip> >>I had a private conversation with Paul Hellyer in early November >>and asked if he could give more details about the USAF General >>and anyone else he spoke to in order to confirm Corso's >>testimony. He couldn't give me more information about the >>General in order to maintain confidentiality, but mentioned >>other public officials, some senior, that confirmed Corso's >>story. He wouldn't give me more information about them, but >>essentially Hellyer was saying that he confirmed Corso's story >>by speaking with a number of officials including the retired >>General. So Hellyer did confirm Corso's claims through a network >>of military and political contacts. >So, let me see if I understand: the general is unidentified, but he >said Corso was telling the truth. That doesn't matter because >Hellyer said that there were other senior people who also confirmed >Corso's story, but we aren't told who they are either. So Hellyer >confirmed Corso's story through a network of unidentified military >and political contacts. Why doesn't that persuade me? I fail to understand why you should impose your standards of being persuaded on whistleblower testimony. What we require are reasonable standards in conformity with common sense. For example, it only takes two reliable confidential sources for a mainstream journalist to confirm a story that can fundamentally alter national politics. That's a common sense standard for mainstream journalists yet you sound unpersuaded when a former Canadian Defense Minister confirms a story by the use of confidential sources that he undoubtedly has at his disposal. The use of confidential sources is a time honored way for the truth to be leaked of what is happening in governance. For example, the recent disclosure of secret torture prisons used by the CIA was possible due to confidential sources. Would you say you are unpersuaded of the existence of such torture prisons because the confidential sources don't come forward to reveal themselves. You sound very unrealistic. <snip> >>The only thing red in the argument you are making are the red >>herrings that you use in your attempt to discredit Corso. These >>alleged embellishments and insertions of himself into UFO >>stories are distractions from Corso's central claims. He was the >>head of the Foreign Technology Desk at Army Research and >>Development and participated in a covert program authorized by >>Lt General Arther Trudea to seed civilian industries with >>extraterrestrial technologies. Those are the central claims made >>by Corso and are supported by Corso's military records >>documenting his position where he could have played such a role. >Excuse me, but these are not alleged embellishments. Corso said >that he was a colonel and he was not. He said he commanded the >Whites Sands Missile Range when he did not. He said that he was >a member of MJ-12 when he was not. He made many such claims that >were untrue. Period. Excuse me but I have yet to find Corso making any of these claims concerning being a full Colonel, being a member of MJ-12. I have done quite a bit of reseach on Corso and listened to a number of interviews and read some of his personal material. I have not found any of these claims you say. Can you give clear references and evidence that he made such claims. I have yet to find it. If not, then I can only conclude you are promoting red herrings. As for being in command of White Sands Missile Range, he received a Commendation for meritorious service as battalian commander for the 3rd Missile Battalion, 71st Artillery from 1957-59. That relates to the period where he claims to have served at White Sands. Is your objection that he was a battalion commander rather than commander of the entire White Sands Missile Range? Sounds to me like another red herring you are promoting. >There are documents about his involvement with Senator Thurmond >which suggest that Corso was a loose cannon and given to flights >of fantasy. These documents exist and can be found. Hellyer's >claims are just that, claims and do nothing to validate Corso. All this is supposition on your part. >>Since you support the existence of a Cosmic Watergate, it's only >>logical to assume that the military would covertly implement >>such a program in order to upgrade the technological base of the >>civilian sector. I assume you and Stan would agree that would be >>both feasible and logical given the technological superiority of >>visiting ETs and the secrecy that was adopted as a national >>security policy. What better branch of the military than the >>Foreign Technology Desk at Army R & D to play such a role since >>they already had an extensive network of technology development >>programs with various corporations and could simply say that the >>ET technology was 'foreign technology'? It's only logical to >>assume that such a covert program existed, and that someone like >>Lt General Arther Trudea as head of Army R & D would have played >>a key role. Since Corso served for some time as Trudeau's >>military aide, then it is logical to assume that he was given >>that covert assignment by Trudeau when he was assigned to the >>FTD. >>I hope that reseachers finally focus on Corso's central claims >>rather than the red herrings you offer to diminish the >>importance of his testimony. >I've focused on Corso's claims and find them without merit. If >we could verify something of importance, that would be one >thing, but to date, that hasn't happened. Wow, I'm amazed at your twisting of the data. You've focused on a number of minor inconsistence (red herrings in my view) and conclude that he embellished his testimomy. Thus all his claims are dismissed. You say if we could verify one thing of importance that would be the thing. Try this, Lt Col Philip Corso was the head of the Foreign Technologyy Desk of Army Research and Development. He would closely with the heard of Army Research and Development, Lt Gen Arther Truduae. These are facts that directly bear on the core of Corso's testimony. >And the same can be said about Cliff Stone, whose embellishments >are well know, to Bob Lazar whose record as it has been found >suggests something other than a scholar and research scientist, >to Bob Dean who struck me as a very nice man but whose tale has >many holes in it, and Philip Corso who might not have known the >truth if it bit him on the butt. >I have also noticed that you cease communication when there have >been questions asked that you don't want answered. Stone has >offered three different versions of his involvement in the >Kecksburg case, but you haven't told me which is true. He offers >nothing that wasn't already known, other than his story of 57 >alien varieties, and he continues to dig his hole deeper. I have responded to all these criticisms elsewhere. I fail to see how repeating myself on the evidence offered by Stone, Lazar, etc., helps in moving forward in this dialogue. Presently, I am trying to get funds so I can fly over to New Mexico to meet Stone and see the documentation he has on hand. So far, I have been unable to get the documentation from Sgt Stone I require to continue the earlier discussion I had with you and Brad Sparks over Stone's credibility and claims. So I will eventually get back to you on that when I have something to report. >I just wonder when you'll understand that the questions are >legitimate and not unreasonable. All I ask for is some evidence >of the veracity of the tales and not excuses on why that very >evidence can't be provided. When it comes to providing evidence of claims made by whistleblowers, I have repeatedly said we need to go beyond a myopic focus on 'hard evidence' and use 'soft evidence' such as consistency of claims, sincerity, intent, etc., to fully assess whistleblower credibility. Hard evidence is easily removed, tampered with, or destroyed as many credible whistleblowers confirm. Given the existence of Cosmic Watergate, something we agree upon, I think the real debate is one of the parameters of Cosmic Watergate. Is it just a conspiracy of silence and strategic deception as you and Stan Friedman suggest; or is it a covert effort to eliminate and alter documentation, and/or intimidate/eliminate witnesses. I.e., is Cosmic Watergate
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 'Mexican Roswell' On History Channel From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 00:08:42 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:10:31 -0500 Subject: 'Mexican Roswell' On History Channel I was recently informed about the following which contains some of my analysis of the Mexican DOD infrared video of nearly two years ago (March 2004). You can download the complete analysis as a Word file at http://brumac.8k.com/MexicanDOD5Mar04
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Lennon's Egg Legacy To Geller From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:17:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:17:04 -0500 Subject: Lennon's Egg Legacy To Geller Source: ContactMusic.Com - Burley in Wharfedale, Leeds, Yorkshire, UK http://tinyurl.com/clzsu 09/12/2005 Lennon's Egg Legacy To Geller A brass egg given to former Beatle John Lennon "by aliens" has gone on show in London. The ornament, which Lennon gave to Israeli-born paranormalist Uri Geller before his untimely murder on 8 December 1980, was allegedly a present from extraterrestrials. And the famous spoon-bender - who has kept the egg in his living room ever since - is sure Lennon's far-fetched story is true. He says, "I believe it. John said he had been lying in bed, when a bright sphere of light appeared in one corner of his room. An alien hand came out of it, and gave him the egg. And he gave it to me. "And he wasn't even drunk. I asked."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 New Texas And Ohio Pages From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 04:31:21 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 17:49:59 -0500 Subject: New Texas And Ohio Pages Hello all: More progress on the new state maps statistics project here. It will take a long while, but I'm building UFO web pages for individual US states. I emailed about the first one, California, earlier. http://www.larryhatch.net/CALIF.html Here are two more... Texas: http://www.larryhatch.net/TEXAS.html Ohio: http://www.larryhatch.net/OHIO.html Why Texas and Ohio? Those two states are almost tied for second place for the number of UFO events in the *U* Database, without regard for population or area. Like the California page, there are three displays with notes for each. If you see any errors, typos etc., again please email! More to come, but not too fast. It is time consuming to dig up the statistics and generate images.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: The Vatican UFOs & Secretum Omega - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:05:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 17:51:17 -0500 Subject: Re: The Vatican UFOs & Secretum Omega - Chichikov >From: Criss Barbato <omegasecret.nul><omegasecret.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 23:43:45 +0100 >Subject: The Vatican UFOs & Secretum Omega <snip> >From those e-mails rose up the story of a presumed Vatican >Intelligence Agency named S.I.V. code - Servizio Informazioni >del Vaticano. The Servizio Informanzione del Vaticano will book you a hotel room in Rome. http://www.romaviva.com/Vaticano/ There are also the Salesian International Volunteers. <snip>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: Lennon's Egg Legacy To Geller - Burns From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 21:14:06 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 17:52:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Lennon's Egg Legacy To Geller - Burns >Source: ContactMusic.Com - Burley in Wharfedale, Leeds, > Yorkshire, UK >http://tinyurl.com/clzsu >09/12/2005 >Lennon's Egg Legacy To Geller >A brass egg given to former Beatle John Lennon "by aliens" has >gone on show in London. >The ornament, which Lennon gave to Israeli-born paranormalist >Uri Geller before his untimely murder on 8 December 1980, was >allegedly a present from extraterrestrials. Listers, I have met Mr Geller, and even though he does appear to have some talent, but not what most of you are thinking. I am of the opinion that this just seems to be very convenient around this time for the consummate publicity seeker. For the record, when I was writing for Alien Encounters. Paragon publishing back in 1997. Paragon did a deal with Uri Geller for a sinister, sorry sister publication Uri's Encounters or something like that. Not only did I meet him at the office on one occasion, I also met him in Bradford at the opening of the ufo exhibition at the Bradford film library or something like that when they did a ufo exhibition in 1997/98 He opened the exhibition. Some would be surprised to know that Larry Warren, has actually one of the best John Lennon memorabilia collections of Lennon Beatles stuff including a fabulous watch that JL owned while recording some album in NY of some importance. I have seen the Beatles in 1967 in Liverpool at the Empire. I was born in 1962 13 miles away in the city of Chester. For the record, as Mr Geller has a need for the lawyers at many occasions I am not saying he does not have talents. However, WHY at this time?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 10 Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother - Koi From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 21:53:47 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 17:54:17 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother - Koi >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:40:02 -0400 >Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:43:58 +0000 >>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother >>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:54:27 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: 'Alien' Faces Are None Other Than Mother >>><snip> >>>In the American Asociation for the Advancement of Science >>>debate published in 1970(?) there is a paper by Lester >>>Grinspoon and ( ) Persky in which they argue that saucer >>>shapes result from childhood memories of breasts >>Ah! Motherships! >He also rather hilariously claimed that the large cigar shaped >craft were phallic symbols... so "father ships". There wasn't >any supporting data for either claim. >Stan Since the MBH, i.e. Mothers' Breasts Hypothesis, gets a mention on this List and elsewhere fairly often (a case of nipple fixation?) I thought it worth mentioning that Lester Grinspoon subsequently changed his mind about this theory. Lester Grinspoon himself no longer accepts this quasi-Freudian theory of UFOs and is in fact embarrased to have proposed it. See Note 83 to Chapter 8 of "Carl Sagan - A Life" (1999) by Keay Davidson - at the top of page 466 (in the Notes section) of the Wiley softcover edition, which refers to remarks made by Grinspoon to Keay Davidson in an interview. By the way, in relation to the brackets and queries in Bruce's email, for ease of reference: (1) Persky's first name was Alan. (2) The relevant debate was the 2 day American Association for the Advancement of Science ("AAAS") UFO Symposium in Boston, Massachusetts on 26th and 27th December 1969. The paper was published in "UFO's: A Scientific Debate" (1972), a book which incorporated papers from various participants in the debate and is well worth obtaining. That book was edited by Thornton Page and Carl Sagan. (Carl Sagan was a long-term friend of Lester Grinspoon - they used to smoke pot together). "UFO's: A Scientific Debate" can be bought second-hand for less than a dollar from sellers via Amazon at the link below: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0760701962/ Yet another book that proves that the maxim "you get what you pay for" does not apply within ufology, and that price is no indication of the true value of a book.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Starship Branson To Take Off From UFO Central From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:57:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:57:36 -0500 Subject: Starship Branson To Take Off From UFO Central Source: The Sunday Times - London, UK http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1920155,00.html December 11, 2005 Starship Branson To Take Off From UFO Central Dominic O'Connell We have lift-off. Sir Richard Branson has chosen the launch site for his new venture into space tourism. The Virgin Galactic spacecraft is scheduled to take off in five years' time from a site near Roswell, New Mexico, in a desert known for UFO legends and alleged alien autopsies. Rich travellers who pay $200,000 (=80169,000) for a ticket will be whisked 60 miles into the sky on the three-hour flights. Up to six passengers at a time will have 20 minutes in space, five minutes of it in a weightless state. This week representatives from the New Mexico state government will visit Branson in London before the Virgin boss flies to America to announce the deal. The state is to invest =80170m in the world's first commercial space port and Branson has agreed to take a 20-year lease on the site. Sources close to Branson said that talks for a space flight licence from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) were "going well". The stable, sunny weather around Roswell should guarantee 320 operational days a year. At first the craft will fly once a week but the goal is to fly once a day, which will dramatically reduce the ticket price. The area of the space port occupies a special place for inter- galactic enthusiasts. The so-called "Roswell incident" of 1947 =97 supposedly a crash landing of a flying saucer that was covered up by the American government =97 has fascinated UFO researchers for nearly 60 years. Today the myth brings 500,000 tourists a year to the area. In Ireland two businessman, Bill Cullen, the chairman of Renault, and Tom Higgins, the boss of Irish Psychics Live, are both claiming they will be the first Irish people to travel to space on Branson's Virgin Galactic. Cullen, the author of It's a Long Way from Penny Apples, has claimed he was the first to sign a contract for the flight and to pay, but Higgins has argued that he made the first registered request to go aboard. Cullen, has said he wants to raise money for charity, but Higgins is to be sponsored by his own company, Realm Communications. The controversial firm specialises in premium- rate phone line services and Higgins currently appears in adverts for some of these kitted out in a space outfit. Several American states had vied to lure Branson since SpaceShipOne, a vehicle partly backed by the Virgin boss, became the first privately funded craft to make a flight into space in October last year. New Mexico won the bidding by promising to invest the $200m and to give Virgin Galactic a tax break on the sales of its tickets. Exact details of the site are not yet known, but aerospace industry experts said that it would be located between Roswell and the White Sands missile testing range. There has been no shortage of takers wishing to be among Branson's first space travellers. Virgin Galactic has already taken =A36.3m (=809.4m) in deposits and has 38,700 people registered to fly. Celebrities who have signed up include William Shatner, the actor who played Captain Kirk in Star Trek, and Sigourney Weaver, who starred as Ripley in the Alien films. The breakthrough for Branson came with his deal last year to use technology developed by Burt Rutan, the designer of SpaceShipOne. Rutan's craft was carried aloft by an aircraft, then launched itself into space powered by a simple rocket motor. It solved the problem of re-entry into the atmosphere by changing the shape of its tail so that it "feathered" like a badminton shuttlecock. The Roswell area will welcome the return of revolutionary aircraft after eking out UFO fictions for the past five decades to attract visitors. It was home to the only atomic bomber squadron in the world when it was hit by a violent thunderstorm in July 1947. The next morning a rancher stumbled across wreckage and strange shiny material which he could not bend or tear. The local newspaper published a report claiming the airfield had captured a "flying
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:57:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:03:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 18:26:21 -1000 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:02:42 EST >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >Your explanation doesn't make sense. Why would someone with >such a distinguished military record just come forward and >lie for 14 yers so he can attend a few conferences around the >world to tell people a hoax? After all he was retired, had a >military pension, and could do much to enjoy his retirement. >And why would someone like that inject himself into the UFO >community and face the ridicule and debunking that goes with >coming forward with the kind of revelations he makes? As many >know, there's not much money in the UFO field and this is a >labor of love for many. People do all sorts of weird things. It's a mistake to assume that just because someone has a distinguished military or political or business history, or because they have advanced academic degrees, that they're psychologically stable. Or even sane. People have all kinds of psychological glitches. The need for attention can be one of them. That alone can be enough for someone to start telling stories that aren't true. >I fail to understand why you should impose your standards of >being persuaded on whistleblower testimony. What we require >are reasonable standards in conformity with common sense. For >example, it only takes two reliable confidential sources for >a mainstream journalist to confirm a story that can >fundamentally alter national politics. No! I've been a journalist for more than 20 years. The common-sense rule is that two independent sources are needed to confirm significant individual details. NOT (excuse me for shouting) to confirm the truth of something that's gigantically new and surprising. For that, you'd need multiple independent sources. Lots of detailed information. And the sources would have to support each other, down to tiny details. (Allowing, of course, for some small discrepancies, because of fallible memory and other forms of human error. But not large discrepancies. And many, if not most of the small details would need to be confirmed from at least two independent sources. So if, just for instance, you have a dozen people telling you that the US government is in contact with aliens, and they give you contradictory information on the names of the alien races or how many alien races there are or what these races say they want or what, exactly, has gone on in their contacts with the government
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:07:00 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:05:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Pope >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:30:50 -0500 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:37:24 -0000 >>Subject: Daily Express Rendlesham Article <snip> >>Then the former PM dropped her bombshell. "UFOs?" she said. >>"You can't tell the people." Bruni was astounded and pressed her >>point. What did she mean? Baroness Thatcher calmly repeated her >>remark, before departing. >Isn't there another interpretation of that remark? Baroness >Thatcher might conceivably have meant that people *will* insist >in believing in the reality of UFOs, and there's no point in >contradicting those who are determined to believe? You may be right, and I wouldn't want to give a definitive interpretation of the remarks, given that I wasn't present. I suspect believers and skeptics will continue to read very different things into Baroness Thatcher's words. Such is ufology.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:16:37 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:13:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:37:31 EST >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: ufoupdates.nul >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Date: 12/9/2005 1:52:41 PM Pacific Standard Time >>Subj: UFO UpDate: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>Source: The Times-Leader - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, USA >http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/local/13360634.htm >>Thu, Dec. 08, 2005 >>Sci Fi Channel-Backed Researcher Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>Joe Mandak >>Associated Press >>PITTSBURGH - Researchers and witnesses who believe a UFO landed >>in the woods of western Pennsylvania 40 years ago are marking >>another anniversary on Friday: two years since a lawsuit was >>filed to get NASA to release records of what happened. >>A National Aeronautics and Space Administration spokesman says >>there's no cover-up: the "UFO" was a Russian satellite but >>government records documenting it have been lost. >What was NASA doing with a Russian satellite?? That would have >been a foreign intelligence material not within NASA's >jurisdiction but within the AF's at Foreign Technology Division >and its Project MOON DUST, whose jurisdiction was widely known >throughout the US Government and certainly NASA knew that. This sounds like NASA aping James Oberg's usual story that this was a faulty Russian Cosmos 96 Venus probe. The problem here is that U.S. Space Command reported the Cosmos probe re-entering Earth's atmosphere over 13 hours before. So Oberg changed the story to maybe a booster re-entered then but the probe itself somehow remained in orbit and came down later in Kecksburg. Leslie Kean contacted Nicholas Johnson, NASA's chief scientist for orbital debris at the NASA Johnson Space Center. Johnson reconstructed the trajectory of Cosmos 96 and concluded that it was literally impossible for any part of Cosmos 96 to have come down in Kecksburg at the time. Orbital mechanics absolutely forbade it. (Since Oberg brags about being an orbital mechanics expert, how could he have possibly gotten this so wrong, unless he never did the analysis or totally screwed it up or simply lied about it?) Johnson also pointed out that no other man-made object from any country came down that day. See Leslie Kean's recent IUR article on this: http://www.freedomofinfo.org/foi/kecksburg2.pdf So much for NASA's "Russian satellite." Even if it were some Russian object (yet another story is an errant Russian test ICBM), how could the government possibly have "lost" all documentation on it? Regarding your point about anything Russian being under the FTD instead of NASA, that's mostly, but not entirely, true. NASA might still be peripherally involved. E.g., metallic debris from the fireball was reported falling down in Elyria, Ohio, and being recovered by three boys. The Elyria paper showed front- page pictures of the boys with some of their metal fragments. The story said the nearby NASA facility in Cleveland was contacted about investigating this. I spoke to one of the grown boys who recovered the metal fragments right after they fell to the ground. He said a few days later, several white cars with NASA logos pulled up and confiscated the dozen metal samples they had collected. All they were ever told by NASA afterwards was that the this was supposedly "foundry slag." They never found out what happened to _their_ metal fragments. Now go to another quote out of the Wilkes-Barr Times-Leader article with the following interesting admission from the NASA spokesman: "The object appeared to be a Russian satellite that re-entered the atmosphere and broke up. NASA experts studied fragments from the object, but records of what they found were lost in the 1990s, Steitz said." "'As a rule, we don't track UFOs. What we could do, and what we apparently did as experts in spacecraft in the 1960s, was to take a look at whatever it was and give our expert opinion,' Steitz said. 'We did that, we boxed (the case) up and that was the end of it. Unfortunately, the documents supporting those findings were misplaced.'" Those could very well be the Elyria metal fragments that I was told NASA took. Now the fragments and all records about them have been conveniently "lost". Like it or not, NASA is in this up to its eyeballs. Also please notice the change in official story. In 1965, the fireball was officially written off as a meteor fireball by the Air Force and with the usual press quotes from some astronomers saying it was unquestionably a meteor. Now NASA is admitting it _wasn't_ a meteor, instead claiming it was a "Russian satellite." Does anybody know how to spell C-O-V-E-R-U-P? >>Leslie Kean, an investigative reporter backed by the Sci Fi >>Channel, and a group connected to the cable TV channel sued the >>NASA two years ago under the Freedom of Information Act. >>Kean wants files on what happened Dec. 9, 1965, in the >>unincorporated hamlet of Kecksburg, about 30 miles southeast of >>Pittsburgh. Witnesses described a "fireball" in the evening sky, >>and a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 to 15 feet high and >>8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently in the woods, >>according to media accounts at the time. ><snip> >>"NASA has been stonewalling for too long, and in the process has >>given us a great record to show that it's recalcitrant and >>acting in bad faith," Helfrich said. "What is NASA trying to >>hide?" >Speaking of "bad faith" let's see some "good faith" here and >show us the purported 1965-6 "media accounts at the time" that >allegedly describe a "a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 >to 15 feet high and 8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently >in the woods." Or is this "metallic acorn" an invention made up >_decades_ later to try to horn in on the Roswell publicity >bandwagon? Brad, calm down. Leslie Kean, for one, has never claimed that "media accounts at the time" wrote that an acorn-shaped object was found. You are confusing how some AP reporter wrote up this story with what people like Kean may have actually said. I'm reminded of what happened to me just before the Sci-Fi Roswell special in 2002. I spoke to an AP reporter and told him I had a bachelors in physics and a doctor of optometry degree. When he wrote the story, it became that I had a PhD in physics. Then I immediately had to correct this lest I be accused of exaggerating my degrees. But it was nothing but a misquote. Witnesses "at the time" certainly did see a fireball in the sky and it was in all the newspapers. A Kecksburg witness "at the time", a boy reported an object maneuvering and coming down in the woods. His mother saw a wisp of blue smoke coming out of the woods and reported the incident to the authorities, thinking maybe a fire had started. Another Kecksburg witness "at the time" reported feeling the ground shake, presumably as the object impacted. Also "at the time," Robert Gatty, a reporter with the nearby Greensburg newspaper, wrote the Army and state police roping off the area and denying him and others access. A search of the woods was conducted, but the official story was that nothing was found. The headlines in the Greensburg paper were "Unidentified Flying Object Falls near Kecksburg - Army Ropes off Area," and "Unidentified Flying Object Report Touches off Probe near Kecksburg." >Also in "good faith" show us _all_ the "fireball" reports that >came in throughout the Midwest and Northeast on the same date >and almost exact same time. And while you're at it _prove_ that >all clock times reported were accurate and precise to within 1 >minute by every single person when in reality most people are >casual about clock times and these can be to within 1/2 hour or >even 1 hour (a good tipoff is the use of round numbers for times >like "5:30" or "6 o'clock," etc.). You can't use alleged 1/2- >hour time discrepancies due to casual reporting to disprove a >meteor. Where did the article say anything about the timing? But just for the sake of argument, even an object moving at supersonic speeds but much slower than a meteor could land in Kecksberg only minutes after being seen directly over Detroit at 4:44 p.m. (time precisely fixed by local seismographic records of explosions there). E.g., suppose the object _averaged_ only 3000 mph as it flew over northern Ohio into western Pennsylvania (triggering many reports of sonic booms reported to the state police) and landed at Kecksberg, an air distance of about 250 miles from Detroit. That would have taken only 5 minutes, not 30 minutes, and yet no meteor. Add to that the fact that NASA is
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:41:07 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:41:49 -0500 Subject: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video Hi All, I found this on MSN Video: 12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has a theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's Tucker Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an intergalactic war with aliens. Link to MSN page with video:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Chinese To Build UFO Research Center From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:48:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:48:49 -0500 Subject: Chinese To Build UFO Research Center Source: The Conservative Voice - Kernersville, North Carolina, USA http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?id=10685 December 11, 2005 Chinese Government To Build UFO Research Center by Jim Kouri Government officials in Guiyang, capital of Guizhou Province, announced on Tuesday that they had received $20 million from a Taiwan-based company to build a UFO research facility in China. The project is a result of several people in the city's Baiyun District claiming they were visited by extraterrestials in 1994. With the new research facility, scientists hope to reproduce the mysterious moment through photos and historical documentation. In 1994, more than 27 pine trees in a forest farm in the district mysteriously fell down. However, nearby plastic shelters stood intact. An nearby motor vehicle factory reported similar unexlained events: steel pipes were strangely broken; a huge truck was found more than 20 metres away from its original place; and a factory employee claims he was mysteriously pulled up in the air by an "unknown" force. However, while some thought it was UFOs behind these events, scientists stated after a field trip to the locations that thunder, lightning and tornados were the probable causes. Wang Fangchen, a biologist who visited the site right after the event, said the city's plan to build a UFO research base is "ridiculous." "Where do they recruit scientists for the research?" he asked, before adding: "I won't oppose it if they just want to promote local tourism through the programme." Li Jing, a senior astronomer with the National Astronomical Observatories, echoed the view. Li said China does not have an official UFO research institute because "it needs scientists of various disciplines." "It can be an atmospheric phenomenon, or a biological issue, or a physical reaction," Li said. "People often mistake planes, clouds and insects, as well as strange shadows on photographs, as being UFOs," said Zhou
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:53:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:30:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Ledger >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:07:00 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:30:50 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:37:24 -0000 >>>Subject: Daily Express Rendlesham Article ><snip> >>>Then the former PM dropped her bombshell. "UFOs?" she said. >>>"You can't tell the people." Bruni was astounded and pressed her >>>point. What did she mean? Baroness Thatcher calmly repeated her >>>remark, before departing. >>Isn't there another interpretation of that remark? Baroness >>Thatcher might conceivably have meant that people *will* insist >>in believing in the reality of UFOs, and there's no point in >>contradicting those who are determined to believe? >You may be right, and I wouldn't want to give a definitive >interpretation of the remarks, given that I wasn't present. >I suspect believers and skeptics will continue to read very >different things into Baroness Thatcher's words. Such is >ufology. Nick, Pavel, After 34 years of working for government I suspect the phrase has more to do with 'not telling the people anything that may not, or will not, result in re-election'. Admitting to some ETI enjoying freedom in our skies means that said governments don't control their skies and therefore their respective populations are at the mercy of whatever paranoid speculation the great unwashed can imagine. But there is much to be said for the 20 year-old commercial
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:53:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:31:57 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:41:07 -0500 (EST) >Subject: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >Hi All, >I found this on MSN Video: >12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has a theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's Tucker Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an intergalactic war with aliens. <snip> Such a grandiose project would surely be apparent in all sorts of fiscal ways, including taxation and the budget, and no black project budget items would be capable of concealing it. The
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:01:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:16:37 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >Regarding your point about anything Russian being under the FTD >instead of NASA, that's mostly, but not entirely, true. NASA >might still be peripherally involved. E.g., metallic debris from >the fireball was reported falling down in Elyria, Ohio, and >being recovered by three boys. The Elyria paper showed front- >page pictures of the boys with some of their metal fragments. >The story said the nearby NASA facility in Cleveland was >contacted about investigating this. I spoke to one of the grown >boys who recovered the metal fragments right after they fell to >the ground. He said a few days later, several white cars with >NASA logos pulled up and confiscated the dozen metal samples >they had collected. All they were ever told by NASA afterwards >was that the this was supposedly "foundry slag." They never >found out what happened to _their_ metal fragments. The article you mentioned also has the following: "One piece is being held for study of Werner Bromund, professor
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:19:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:05:06 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:41:07 -0500 (EST) >Subject: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >I found this on MSN Video: >12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has a >theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's Tucker >Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an >intergalactic war with aliens. >Link to MSN page with video: >http://tinyurl.com/crnon >Video player is on top, under MSN logo. First clip will be >video ad. Mr. Hellyer seems unaware that the US government sponsored a number of small feasibility and "what if?" studies on many subjects. There was no commitment at all to build or seriously design the stuff described in the Project Horizon, "base on the moon" study noted by Corso. I surely wish he would stop saying intergalactic instead of intragalactic. Do note that Carlson wrongly claimed that a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Starship Branson To Take Off From UFO Central From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:31:15 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:07:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Starship Branson To Take Off From UFO Central >Source: The Sunday Times - London, UK >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1920155,00.html >December 11, 2005 >Starship Branson To Take Off From UFO Central >Dominic O'Connell >We have lift-off. Sir Richard Branson has chosen the launch site >for his new venture into space tourism. >The Virgin Galactic spacecraft is scheduled to take off in five >years' time from a site near Roswell, New Mexico, in a desert >known for UFO legends and alleged alien autopsies. ><snip> >The Roswell area will welcome the return of revolutionary >aircraft after eking out UFO fictions for the past five decades >to attract visitors. >It was home to the only atomic bomber squadron in the world when >it was hit by a violent thunderstorm in July 1947. The next >morning a rancher stumbled across wreckage and strange shiny >material which he could not bend or tear. The local newspaper >published a report claiming the airfield had captured a "flying >saucer". >Much later it was revealed that the debris had actually belonged >to a high-altitude balloon being used to monitor Soviet nuclear >tests. ------ Anybody find a way to respond on line to the silly comments about Roswell eking out a living for 5 decades, and the Mogul balloon nonsense ( The first Soviet nuclear test was in August
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:10:41 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:10:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Rimmer >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:07:00 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:30:50 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:37:24 -0000 >>Subject: Daily Express Rendlesham Article ><snip> >>Then the former PM dropped her bombshell. "UFOs?" she said. >>"You can't tell the people." Bruni was astounded and pressed her >>point. What did she mean? Baroness Thatcher calmly repeated her >>remark, before departing. >>Isn't there another interpretation of that remark? Baroness >>Thatcher might conceivably have meant that people *will* insist >>in believing in the reality of UFOs, and there's no point in >>contradicting those who are determined to believe? >You may be right, and I wouldn't want to give a definitive >interpretation of the remarks, given that I wasn't present. >I suspect believers and skeptics will continue to read very >different things into Baroness Thatcher's words. Such is >ufology. If you don't know what it means, why do you keep repeating it as though it's significant? Maybe you don't know what it means, but I suspect you have a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:50:06 -1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:13:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:57:20 -0500 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 18:26:21 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:02:42 EST >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique ><snip> >>Your explanation doesn't make sense. Why would someone with >>such a distinguished military record just come forward and >>lie for 14 yers so he can attend a few conferences around the >>world to tell people a hoax? After all he was retired, had a >>military pension, and could do much to enjoy his retirement. >>And why would someone like that inject himself into the UFO >>community and face the ridicule and debunking that goes with >>coming forward with the kind of revelations he makes? As many >>know, there's not much money in the UFO field and this is a >>labor of love for many. >People do all sorts of weird things. It's a mistake to assume >that just because someone has a distinguished military or >political or business history, or because they have advanced >academic degrees, that they're psychologically stable. Or even >sane. People have all kinds of psychological glitches. The need >for attention can be one of them. That alone can be enough for >someone to start telling stories that aren't true. Hello Greg, I think it reasonable to assume that those with the propensity to embellish, distort or lie have a track record of doing so. This is typically displayed in the careers of such individuals where they are likely to have significant personnel problems with others, etc., that affect promotions, relationships, etc. In short, psychologically unstable individuals leave a trail that is found in their employment records. Dean has nothing indicative of instabilty in his record. He had a distinguished military career and in 1991 comes forward to relate what happened almost 30 years earlier while working at NATO. His story has remained the same after 14 years and he continues to impress people with his obvious sincerity and integrity. No evidence of psychological instability, and his testimony is very plausible given his former position. Furthermore, there would have been an obvious need for NATO to conduct a threat assessment of visiting extraterrestrials for Central Europe where the chance of confusing UFOs for nuclear missile attacks were very high. According to Dean, this was an in house assessment conducted by NATO and not related to the Majestic 12 control system independently developed in the USA. >>I fail to understand why you should impose your standards of >>being persuaded on whistleblower testimony. What we require >>are reasonable standards in conformity with common sense. For >>example, it only takes two reliable confidential sources for >>a mainstream journalist to confirm a story that can >>fundamentally alter national politics. >No! >I've been a journalist for more than 20 years. The common-sense >rule is that two independent sources are needed to confirm >significant individual details. NOT (excuse me for shouting) to >confirm the truth of something that's gigantically new and >surprising. For that, you'd need multiple independent sources. >Lots of detailed information. And the sources would have to >support each other, down to tiny details. (Allowing, of course, >for some small discrepancies, because of fallible memory and >other forms of human error. But not large discrepancies. >And many, if not most of the small details would need to be >confirmed from at least two independent sources. So if, just for >instance, you have a dozen people telling you that the US >government is in contact with aliens, and they give you >contradictory information on the names of the alien races or how >many alien races there are or what these races say they want or >what, exactly, has gone on in their contacts with the government >- well, then you don't have a publishable story, no matter how >plausible you might think any of the individual sources are. It needs to be pointed out that the context of my remark was in relation to Paul Hellyer confirming the veracity of Corso as a whistleblower, and not in relation to Robert Dean as your above editing implies. So the criterion you establish above for good journalism, two independent sources to establish an individual detail was satisfied in relation to Corso. Hellyer gained independent confirmation for the veracity of Corso as a whistleblower from more than two sources (a USAF general and other 'senior' officials who remain confidential). So it is fair to say that by the standards of professional journalism, we have a story along the lines that former Defense Minister confirms the veracity of ex-military whistleblower claiming ET technologies being seeded, Star Wars, etc. As for the different details of Corso's testimony, e.g., real purpose of Star Wars is to be used against galactic visitors, I agree that is where more confirmation is needed to show what exotic weapons systems have been developed, e.g, particle beam weapons, scalar wave weapons, etc. So the particular details of Corso's claims and Hellyer's testimoy still need independent confirmation, but the veracity of Corso as a whistleblower has been confirmed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: The Passing Of Bob Pratt - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:03:08 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:16:16 -0500 Subject: Re: The Passing Of Bob Pratt - Maccabee >From: Jerry Cohen <rjcohen.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 10:41:18 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Passing Of Bob Pratt. <snip> >a) I proved to myself that at least one article in the Enquirer >was accurate back to source. I wondered how many others were >likewise accurate. Bob was writing articles for the Enquirer in >that general time period. Those of us active in research in the 70's knew that the Enquirer was often quite accurate. A couple of times they published information that I had supplied so I could check their accuracy directly. They published some material from the New Zealand sightings based on my research and info from the FBI files. Now the Weekly World News was (and is) another case entirely. I recall many years ago they called me up to get a photograph for illustrating a story. My recollection is that I refused. They
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:53:53 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:21:26 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:53:19 -0500 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:41:07 -0500 (EST) >>Subject: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>Hi All, >>I found this on MSN Video: >>12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has >a theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's >Tucker Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an >intergalactic war with aliens. ><snip> >Such a grandiose project would surely be apparent in all sorts >of fiscal ways, including taxation and the budget, and no black >project budget items would be capable of concealing it. The >services of many if not most of the engineers and scientists in >the country would have to be enlisted. Hardly, Colonel General Corso did it all by his lonesome and didn't even realize it until years afterward! Of course, Corso told us that we (ahem, he) was keeping the evil ET at bay. He was savior of the US during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and unknowingly the savior of Mankind with the construction of a massive defense system now keeping ET at bay. Paul 'Every Word Is True' Hellyer got the skinny from an unnamed Air Force general. The former Canadian Defence Minister knew nothing of this while he was in office? Wow! I can only reiterate my previous comment on his competence! Zero! Exactly what does it mean that every word of Corso's book is true? Does it mean that: 1) Corso's version of the functioning of the M-1 is true? 2) Corso fought Romel in North Africa? 3) That there was a massive radar defense system in the US in 1947? This one from an Air Defense Branch officer! :) 4) For some reason a convoy going to Wright Field, Ohio would pass through Fort Riley, Kansas. Oh, yeah, don't forget the location of 8th AF HQ in Corso's book. 5) That Corso confronted in Washington, DC a CIA official who was not then present in Washington in a building which had not been built yet. 6) That Corso had a special relationship with the FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover etc., etc., etc.? I predict that a former Canadian Defense Minister is just too big for UFO fans to ignore. He will be on the speaking circuit for years. Nothing in ufology is ever finished or consigned to the garbage can. No matter how silly or stupid, it will be put back on the table by some freak. We hear almost nothing about the complete lack of credibility of this source. No one stands up to denounce this bull butter. Disinformation agents! Look in the mirror in the morning. There is your disinformation agent looking back at your gullible self!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:49:31 -1000 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:24:30 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:53:19 -0500 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:41:07 -0500 (EST) >>Subject: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>Hi All, >>I found this on MSN Video: >>12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has >a theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's >Tucker Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an >intergalactic war with aliens. ><snip> >Such a grandiose project would surely be apparent in all sorts >of fiscal ways, including taxation and the budget, and no black >project budget items would be capable of concealing it. The >services of many if not most of the engineers and scientists in >the country would have to be enlisted. It is very apparent in a number of fiscal ways such as the enormous accounting irregularities in various federal agences in the U.S. and the reports of auditors from the Inspector General of these different agencies and departments. When Catherine Austin Fitts, an Assistant Secretary for HUD tried to trace the funding irregularities during the first Bush administration she was sacked. When she created her own private company and did the same for the Clinton administration for HUD, again she experienced great resistance, the contract withdrawn and her company sued into bankruptcy by CIA covert operation. The Pengaton Inspector General reported in the years 1997-1999 there was an average of 1.7 trillion per year that could not be accounted for in the Pentagon budget. Things were no better in 2000 and the Inspector General simply gave up trying to come up with a final figure. I have advanced the thesis that this is money funnelled through the Pentagon to create the black budget funding a vast infrastructure of projects I dub Manhatten II. Cosmic Watergate does have a price tag! This dwarfs the official black budget estimates released by the CIA of approximately $38 for the different intelligence agencies. In conclusion, Cosmic Watergate is funded by a black budget made possible by the CIA's unique statutory ability to generate revenue "WITHOUT regard to any provisions of law". Yes, that is the official language used in the 1949 CIA Act! My paper on the black budget and Manhattan II is available at:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:21:34 -0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:41:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Pope >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:10:41 +0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:07:00 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:30:50 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:37:24 -0000 >>>Subject: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>Then the former PM dropped her bombshell. "UFOs?" she said. >>>"You can't tell the people." Bruni was astounded and pressed her >>>point. What did she mean? Baroness Thatcher calmly repeated her >>>remark, before departing. >>>Isn't there another interpretation of that remark? Baroness >>>Thatcher might conceivably have meant that people *will* insist >>>in believing in the reality of UFOs, and there's no point in >>>contradicting those who are determined to believe? >>You may be right, and I wouldn't want to give a definitive >>interpretation of the remarks, given that I wasn't present. >>I suspect believers and skeptics will continue to read very >>different things into Baroness Thatcher's words. Such is >>ufology. >If you don't know what it means, why do you keep repeating it >as though it's significant? Because comments about UFOs from former Prime Ministers are extremely rare and therefore extraordinarily significant, whatever interpretation one puts on them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Chinese To Build UFO Research Center - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:34:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:43:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Chinese To Build UFO Research Center - White >Chinese Government To Build UFO Research Center >by Jim Kouri <snip> >In 1994, more than 27 pine trees in a forest farm in the >district mysteriously fell down. However, nearby plastic >shelters stood intact. Interesting and similar phenomenon happening right here in Hamilton, Ontario, at Gage Park, a beautiful park something like a quarter mile square, with many beautiful, mature trees, mixed evergreen and deciduous. Starting this year (2005) branch after branch after branch, I'd guess averaging weekly, has been snapped off by some force. A huge force for the larger branches. Gage Park is partly sheltered from the strongest winds by being tucked up against the 300-400 foot high Niagara escarpment. These snappings occur in _healthy_ trees, with _zero_ rot at any point in the broken area. I have tested the wood's strength with a pocket knife. The breaks involve a fairly long section of the branches, from a foot or more on small (say, 2-inch diameter) branches up to maybe 2 to 4 feet on the larger branches (say, a foot in diameter.) The breaks are like the long, fiber-delaminating break you get when you bend a small diameter branch into a "U" shape, as opposed to snapping it under your shoe where the break is at a specific point. For those breaks that I've made mental note of, there has been _no_ heavy weather over the time period, usually 24 hours, during which the break had to occur. I am retired and I spend a lot of time in Gage Park hanging out with the squirrels, so I'm there at least once daily. These branches do _not_ carry excessive weight or size outboard of the broken section. All broken branches in Gage Park that I have noted are deciduous. Just in 2005, not before. This seems to have gotten the notice the city tree maintenance staff, (though I haven't spoken with them.) They are now cutting down some beautiful, mature trees, 18-24 inches in diameter and carting them off. Some mature trees in general are rotten at the core and have strong, living wood at the outside but _these_ trees being cut down have _zero_ rot at any point across the cut section, and at any height from the trunk at ground level to the upper branches. When I saw that 27 pines fell mysteriously, that got my attention. I've only seen one (tentative) UFO here in Hamilton, so I'm not sure
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:38:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:45:07 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:53:19 -0500 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video <snip> >>12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has >a theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's >Tucker Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an >intergalactic war with aliens. ><snip> >Such a grandiose project would surely be apparent in all sorts >of fiscal ways, including taxation and the budget, and no black >project budget items would be capable of concealing it. The >services of many if not most of the engineers and scientists in >the country would have to be enlisted. Threatening the career (and future employability) of an engineer or scientist buys quite a bit of silence. Threatening to fake a child sex abuse charge buys even more. Threatening torture or
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:41:09 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:46:45 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:53:53 -0500 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >Video >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:53:19 -0500 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >Video >>>From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:41:07 -0500 (EST) >>>Subject: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video <snip> >Hardly, Colonel General Corso did it all by his lonesome and >didn't even realize it until years afterward! Of course, Corso >told us that we (ahem, he) was keeping the evil ET at bay. He >was savior of the US during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and >unknowingly the savior of Mankind with the construction of a >massive defense system now keeping ET at bay. <snip> >Jan Aldrich http://www.cfhf.net/lyrics/world-mcbragg.htm I couldn't resist... Best,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:02:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:49:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:50:06 -1000 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >Hello Greg, >I think it reasonable to assume that those with the >propensity to embellish, distort or lie have a track record >of doing so. >This is typically displayed in the careers of such >individuals where they are likely to have significant >personnel problems with others, etc., that affect promotions, >relationships, etc. >In short, psychologically unstable individuals leave a trail >that is found in their employment records. Dean has nothing >indicative of instabilty in his record. He had a >distinguished military career and in 1991 comes forward to >relate what happened almost 30 years earlier while working at >NATO. His story has remained the same after 14 years and he >continues to impress people with his obvious sincerity and >integrity. My point was that there are unstable people with distinguished records. Sometimes the instability comes out during their employment, but is papered over. Sometimes it only comes out afterwards. Sometimes the instability even contributes to their success. Case in point. A kid in some American suburb goes on a rampage, and starts shooting people. What are the inevitable comments? "He was such a nice boy!" "There was no sign that he was going to..." Now, in fact a detailed story from the NY Times found that in many cases there really were signs of instability - but nobody knew about them. Including, often enough, the kid's family, who either never were aware of the kid's problems, or put themselves in total denial. Think that doesn't happen in employment situations? I once worked with a notable sociopath, someone notorious in an enormous media company for his impulsively bad treatment of people. And when he was promotoed, what did the corporate memo say? That his strong point was getting along with others, and inspiring his subordinates (who in fact were terrified of him). This company also had some people with serious drinking problems on its staff. Didn't stop them from being considered star managers. >It needs to be pointed out that the context of my remark was >in relation to Paul Hellyer confirming the veracity of Corso >as a whistleblower, and not in relation to Robert Dean as >your above editing implies. So the criterion you establish >above for good journalism, two independent sources to >establish an individual detail was satisfied in relation to Corso. > >Hellyer gained independent confirmation for the veracity of >Corso as a whistleblower from more than two sources (a USAF >general and other 'senior' officials who remain confidential). > >So it is fair to say that by the standards of professional >journalism, we have a story along the lines that former >Defense Minister confirms the veracity of ex-military >whistleblower claiming ET technologies being seeded, Star Wars, etc. I couldn't ask for a better illustration of my larger point here, which is that Michael - whom I do honor for his peaceable approach to these disputes - doesn't really understand how journalists operate. Hellyer says he has independent confirmation of something from two sources. All a journalist can write, given that, is "Former Official Says He Has Confirmation." The journalist absolutely can't write a story saying, "Hellyer's Story is Confirmed." If a journalist wants to write them, nobody (including journalists) can check that the sources _that_ story, he or she has to get independent confirmation, from at least two sources, of the things Hellyer says. In other words - I'm trying to put this as clearly as I can - it's the _journalist_ who has to find the double independent confirmation, not Helleyer. Especially since Hellyer isn't naming both his sources! Since he doesn't name really said what Hellyer claims they said. So nobody can know for sure whether Hellyer's telling the truth. Therefore no responsible journalist would think that he or she could write a story saying that Hellyer's revelations are correct. If that journalist found two independent sources who said the same thing as Hellyer - that would be a different matter. Though even then the story would only state that independent confirmation had apparently shown up (I say "apparently" because the new sources might later be discredited; it happens). It would take a lot more than this - a great lot more - before any journalist would take the final leap, and write a story saying that aliens are here. (Michael, we should remember, originally said that journalists required just two independent
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 11 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:21:15 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:51:59 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:41:07 -0500 (EST) >Subject: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video <snip> >12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has a >theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's Tucker >Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an >intergalactic war with aliens. >Link to MSN page with video: <snip> (Video didn't work. Got a bunch of advertisements that wasted my time.) After studying CC&D and particularly the art of deception for the last 10 years, I've learned to be vewy careful about what I believe, disbelieve or even keep on the back shelves of my mind. When I hear/read something like this, I automatically ask, "What is the purpose of this information? What is motivating this individual to make such claims so boldly in public?" Why would a former _Defence_ Minister of a country, i.e. Canada: 1. break his oath of confidentiality 2. appear on public TV to share what must be sensitive information 3. make outrageous claims openly and in the public eye 4. risk ridicule 5. tell the enemy/'aliens' what we're up to 6. point fingers at an ally Why would an individual with a former high profile, political/military reputation go public and make amazing claims? More importantly, why is he still alive/talking if he's telling us something we are not suppose to know? Is he: (multiple choice) a. telling the truth - risking his reputation, position, life...everything? b. lying through his teeth (on someone's payroll)? c. telling some truth mixed with lies (paid mis/disinformant)? d. sharing what he BELIEVES to be the truth but has been misled, manipulated, "Bennowitzed"? If he is telling the truth based on "inside information", it's probably time to bend over and kiss our assets good-bye. If he is deliberately spreading false or even half-true information, especially about another country, what is the purpose, objective, plan? If he is sharing accurate or inaccurate information fed to him in hopes he will "leak" it to the public, what is the purpose, objective, plan and who are the perpetrators/handlers? Just because a person has held a high political office or claims to know what he or she is talking about is no reason to believe or disbelieve what they say or don't say. In fact, the higher the position or expertise claimed, the more important it is to ask questions and keep asking questions. It doesn't matter if they are presidents, prime ministers, kings, queens, defense ministers, scientists, doctors, lawyers, psychologists, UFOlogists, reporters, list owners, talk show hosts, TV or movie stars, etc.; ask questions, remain objective and _never_ believe or disbelieve. ANYONE, no matter how intelligent or sincere, can be manipulated/motivated to spread truth, lies and/or propaganda. Don't look were the fingers point, look where they are _not_ pointing. Store information without absorbing it. Look for truth where it cannot hide. Know thy enemy but above all... know thyself! Your beliefs can and will be used against you.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:30:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:46:03 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:38:43 -0500 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:53:19 -0500 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>>12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has >>a theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's >>Tucker Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an >>intergalactic war with aliens. >>Such a grandiose project would surely be apparent in all sorts >>of fiscal ways, including taxation and the budget, and no black >>project budget items would be capable of concealing it. The >>services of many if not most of the engineers and scientists in >>the country would have to be enlisted. >Threatening the career (and future employability) of an >engineer or scientist buys quite a bit of silence. Threatening >to fake a child sex abuse charge buys even more. Threatening >torture or secret imprisonment works well too. Threatening the >family members probably buys the most. I have no doubt that great projects can be held in confidence by large numbers of employees - the Manhattan Project being the notable example. The only inducements to secrecy most people require are the inducements of patriotism. What I meant was that works on the scale of intra-galactic war would surely result in vast affects on the economy, up to and including an increased rate of inflation and borrowing. They would also presumably soak up a considerable amount of engineering and scientific talent. That is, unless war with aliens is a lot less expensive than I suppose, but such is not the case that Dr. Salla and Minister Hellyer appear to be making. Figures I've located here: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104655.html list US federal receipts for the year 1998 as approximately 1.8 trillion dollars. Expenditures were slightly less. According to the paper referred by Dr. Salla, during a three year period around that time 1.7 trillion was secretly appropriated to the Pentagon through a system that amounted to money laundering. I'm not a money man, and I admit to being somewhat puzzled. Where did the 1.7 billion, even over three years, come from? What did the rest of the government do for money during that period?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Journalist Wonders Why Mainstream Ignores UFOs From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:01:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:01:34 -0500 Subject: Journalist Wonders Why Mainstream Ignores UFOs Source: The Pittsburgh Tribune Review - Pennsylvania, USA http://tinyurl.com/bgtlw Believers Mark 40th Anniversary In Kecksburg By A.J. Panian Tribune Review Sunday, December 11, 2005 Free-lance journalist John Horrigan knows UFOs. Since 1990, Horrigan, of Watertown, Mass., has visited the scenes of incidents widely believed to involve unidentified flying objects, including three trips to Roswell, N.M., and one to Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia. "I've done a number of stories around the world involving reported UFO crashes," Horrigan said. "When I'd heard of all these witnesses from various walks of life and heard their stories, I thought that all of them can't be lying. I also wondered why these things were being ignored by mainstream media or covered up." Add the mystery surrounding Kecksburg to his list of inquiries. Horrigan was there Saturday, along with about 250 others, observing the 40th anniversary of a still-disputed accounting of what happened on Dec. 9, 1965, that over time has drawn an international eye to this tiny farming village in Mt. Pleasant Township. "News of this anniversary went on the international newswire, so it's been in papers from South Africa to Canada, all over the place; the phones have just been ringing day and night," said Stan Gordon, of Greensburg, who organized the event and has spent a lifetime investigating the incident, in which a large, metallic acorn-shaped object supposedly streaked through the region's skies before plummeting into a patch of woods near the town. The anniversary event attracted many who were on the scene that day. Each testified that military and police officials restricted all access to the woods where the crash is believed to have occurred, left the scene with the suspected object in tow on a flatbed trailer, and subsequently denied finding anything. Bob Gatty, a former Tribune-Review reporter who wrote the initial articles on the incident, said follow-up inquiries into that singular event have tailed him ever since. "I've been a journalist and congressional aide for about 42 years, and nothing has stuck with me like this story," Gatty said. "When I got to Kecksburg that night, I was met by Army people and state cops with guns who told me I couldn't go any further. All these years, this story has been kept alive. There has to be a reason why that is. The reason is because the government is covering something up." A report was given by Lee Helfrich, an attorney with Lobel, Novins and Lamont, Washington, D.C. Helfrich is representing journalist Leslie Kean in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed in December 2003, in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, to get the National Aeronautics and Space Administration to release records of what happened that day in Kecksburg. Kean is an investigative reporter backed in the suit by the Sci Fi Channel's director of special projects, Larry Landsman. "When we first filed the suit, the government immediately went in and asked the court to rule in its favor, which is typical. Our argument was that they didn't conduct an adequate search. They never even looked for this information," Helfrich said. In May, U.S. District Judge Emmitt Sullivan restricted the filing of any further case information pending review of submitted data. On Friday, Helfrich asked Sullivan to lift his restriction on new information so she could file for a ruling in Kean's favor. She is awaiting his decision. "We're hoping to get some response soon," said Kean, adding that the government may never relinquish documents revealing the truth of the matter. "It's quite possible that records have been expunged, or that whatever records remain are so highly classified that we will never get them. But they're obligated to tell us that, and they haven't done that." A NASA spokesman told The Associated Press there is no cover-up and the UFO was a Soviet satellite, although government records have been lost. A chasm ultimately formed between town residents who believed a UFO had crashed there, and those who thought the incident a hoax, Horrigan said. Just as astonishing, he added, is the way the lore behind the incident has now galvanized the community. "Forty years on, and everyone is here to offer praise to one another, and that's great," Horrigan said. "There's no way that they can stop (Kecksburg) from being a tourist destination, so they might as well embrace the tourism as opposed to trying to reject it. There's nothing wrong with that, and the community should be proud." A refurbished miniature replica of the object believed by many to have landed near the town was on display for the event. The prop, used in 1990 during an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, was refurbished by local businesses, said Ron Struble, president of the Kecksburg UFO Festival Committee. "The (UFO replica) is going up on the platform that's already being designed for display during a fall festival here in September of 2006," Struble said. A.J. Panian can be reached at:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: The Vatican UFOs & Secretum Omega - Gottschall From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:59:21 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:17:56 -0500 Subject: Re: The Vatican UFOs & Secretum Omega - Gottschall >From: Criss Barbato <omegasecret.nul> <omegasecret.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 23:43:45 +0100 >Subject: The Vatican UFOs & Secretum Omega <snip> >My Jesuit contact also confirmed to me the reality of the >George Adamsky-John XXIII meeting and talked about some very >interesting details about it. <snip> Dear Christoforo, Ciao! Could you tell me about the Adamski-Pope meeting please? I'm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:37:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:20:47 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:53:53 -0500 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >Exactly what does it mean that every word of Corso's book is >true? Does it mean that: >1) Corso's version of the functioning of the M-1 is true? >2) Corso fought Romel in North Africa? >3) That there was a massive radar defense system in the US in >1947? This one from an Air Defense Branch officer! :) >4) For some reason a convoy going to Wright Field, Ohio would >pass through Fort Riley, Kansas. Oh, yeah, don't forget the >location of 8th AF HQ in Corso's book. >5) That Corso confronted in Washington, DC a CIA official who >was not then present in Washington in a building which had >not been built yet. >6) That Corso had a special relationship with the FBI >Director J. Edgar Hoover >etc., etc., etc.? For one of those et ceteras - if Corso is telling the truth, then it was he and he alone who forced the JFK administration to confront the presence of Soviet missiles in Cuba. Forget that there's no support for that from historians or in historical documents, not even the verbatim transcript of meetings in the White House that was published many years after the event. Kennedy and his people managed to figure out that there were missiles in Cuba all by themselves - that's what the historical record shows. Oops. Forgot. Corso's role of course was covered up. Couldn't have the man who was going to disclose the Big Alien Secret amass any credibility. So strike references to him from the historical record! Alter the White House transcripts! Shoot
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:46:38 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:22:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:16:37 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files <snip> >Regarding your point about anything Russian being under the FTD >instead of NASA, that's mostly, but not entirely, true. NASA >might still be peripherally involved. E.g., metallic debris from >the fireball was reported falling down in Elyria, Ohio, and >being recovered by three boys. The Elyria paper showed front- >page pictures of the boys with some of their metal fragments. >The story said the nearby NASA facility in Cleveland was >contacted about investigating this. I spoke to one of the grown >boys who recovered the metal fragments right after they fell to >the ground. He said a few days later, several white cars with >NASA logos pulled up and confiscated the dozen metal samples >they had collected. All they were ever told by NASA afterwards >was that the this was supposedly "foundry slag." They never >found out what happened to _their_ metal fragments. This is better explained by the proximity and locality of a major NASA facility in Cleveland, Ohio, to the fall site at Elyria, Ohio, than to NASA having any overlapping or controlling jurisdiction over potentially Russian or foreign satellite material of intelligence value, which would have been under USAF FTD jurisdiction under MOON DUST. Someone has to report and/or recover the debris, before MOON DUST can fly out, and if a scientific agency or NASA identifies it as meteoritic or non- foreign satellite material and the AF can double check the ground paths of Russian (etc.) satellites, then there is no need for FTD to become involved (if that's what happened at Elyria). But there was no NASA installation near Kecksburg, PA, and no need for NASA to become involved, except in a secondary or consulting role, if a Russian Kosmos had really been involved (which seems an impossibility according to the bits and pieces of orbital data I've been able to collect about Kosmos 96 which would have put its ground path over South America not North America if still in orbit as late as at 4-5 PM on Dec 9, 1965).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:51:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:28:55 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:21:15 -0600 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>From: Sergey Shpakovsky <sergejsh.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:41:07 -0500 (EST) >>Subject: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video ><snip> >>12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has a >>theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's Tucker >>Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an >>intergalactic war with aliens. >>Link to MSN page with video: <snip> >When I hear/read something like this, I automatically ask, "What >is the purpose of this information? What is motivating this >individual to make such claims so boldly in public?" <snip> >If he is telling the truth based on "inside information", it's >probably time to bend over and kiss our assets good-bye. If he >is deliberately spreading false or even half-true information, >especially about another country, what is the purpose, >objective, plan? If he is sharing accurate or inaccurate >information fed to him in hopes he will "leak" it to the public, >what is the purpose, objective, plan and who are the >perpetrators/handlers? <snip> Amy, I was there for Hellyer's speech after mine and also for the press conference. Paul Hellyer explicitly stated that he had no inside information from when he was Defence Minister. So no confidentiality oath to break. His beliefs are based on reading and accepting Corso's book as gospel and supposed confirmation, "It is all true and more", from a retired USAF general known to his son. No way to know what that means. One interpretation is that Roswell happened and aliens are here and the government knows a great deal more than we have been told. I agree with that, but provide data. This provides no confirmation of Corso's validity as a source about specific information, the exopoliticians notwithstanding. Hellyer has written a bunch of books, likes the limelight. So he is expressing opinions not providing substantiation, just as any of us can.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:51:43 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:32:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:08:14 -1000 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:02:42 EST >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 03:54:29 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 07:30:32 -0800 >>>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >>>The whole Roswell story coming out as it did from military >>>officers is a breech of security and I don't remember any of >>>them being prosecuted. >>Yes, there are security violations all the time, some of them >>minor and some of them not. Some people have been >>court-maritaled for the violations and some haven't. >>However, the security in the corporate world is different from >>that in the military. I have seen how lax it can be in the >>private world, so, suggesting Lockheed worker was violating >>security with his latest tale tells us nothing about what >>happens inside the military. It is two different things and two >>different worlds. >As you know, many corporations perform classified projects for >various military departments. These projects are paid for by the >military and have numerous 'military consultants' on the staff >of the corporations. Security procedures for such projects have >to satisfy strict standards in order to succesfully get the >project. To separate the corporate world performing classified >miliary projects from the military itself is not as easy as you >would suggest. To simply generalize that corporate security is >much more lax than in the military overlooks that when it comes >to highly classified projects there are security standards that >need to be maintained for future funding. In general, I have >found more whistleblowers tend to come from a military >background rather than the corporate world. This suggests the >inverse of what you are arguing. Let's see. I've held security clearances from both the military and in the corporate world. I've worked with classified material in both arenas, so I'm basing what I say on my experience in both environments. It is my experience that the military holds its personnel to a much higher standard than does the civilian world. Yes, corporate entities do sometimes work very hard to maintain secrecy, but overall, the standards in the military are higher than those in corporations. >>>Thanks Bill for the examples. I checked my notes after a >>>conversation with Bob Dean, here's what I wrote concerning the >>>security procedures when he read the Assessment: >>>"Dean says that while he didn't have Ultra clearance, something >>>that the Colonel and other officers possessed, he never had a >>>problem in signing out the document out. When I asked how that >>>could be given the security procedures that typically occur with >>>UFO topics, Dean says that security procedures in SHOC were >>>pretty relaxed for senior NCOs who were responsible for the >>>efficient running of the war room. He says that as a senior NCO >>>who was responsible for the duty rosters, he never got into >>>trouble for signing out the Assessment from the vault for his >>>private reading while in SHOC." (Personal Notes, Sept 16, 2005). >>>So I think Dean's story is entirely plausible and that Kevin >>>Randle's objection is an unrealistically rigid assessment of >>>security procedures in military operations of which he has no >>>direct experience. Dean served in SHOC, Randle hasn't. >>Once again you've missed the point and I wonder if it hasn't >>been on purpose. I have suggested that Dean's tale of seeing The >>Assessment is a violation of security regulations. You have >>agreed with that. I have said that the treatment of this "highly >>classified" document was somewhat cavalier, which it was. Does >>that mean the compromise didn't happen? Not in and of itself. >>The real problems are much more complex and include the fact >>that the supposed "Ultra" classification wasn't used at the time >>and for what Dean said it was, the title sheet Dean supplied to >>prove The Assessment existed has been shown to be a forgery, >>and lack of any corroboration for the existence of The >>Assessment are a very real problems. You addressed none of them, >>except to say that it wasn't surprising there was no independent >>corroboration. >>So, my objections to Dean's story are not singular, nor are the >>based on the way security was violated here, but on something >>much more real. These are objections that have been ignored in >>our various communications. >I think we can agree that there has been no corroboration for >Dean's story and that investigations by Timothy Good where not >succesful in proving the existence of the Assessment. Dean's >narration of events concerning him being given access to the >Assessment certainly suggests that a security violation was >occuring. His response is that as a senior NCO he had many perks >and that the camaraderie in SHOC led to him having the privilege >of signing out the Assessment on numerous occasions to read it >while in the secure area of SHOC. Is it possible that a senior >NCO in charge of the Duty Roster for officers in the SHOC war >room would be given the privilege of actually signing out and >reading classified documents above his security clearance? Yes, >a violation had occured but is it plausible? Certainly if the >officer in charge of operations SHOC approved Dean's viewing it, >which happened when he was initially given the Assessment by the >Colonel, then it might be argued that this was one of the >privileges granted to Dean. >It is plausible for events to have happened as Dean described. Now we argue about semantics. No, it is not plausible. Is it possible? Different question and different answer. Yes, it's possible, but it is not plausible. >While we don't have proof, we have plausibility. Ah, the key. We have no proof. >This takes us >to the question of intent. Dean has put his reputation on the >line in coming forward. A man who reached the highest rank in >the US military as an NCO is unlikely to just come forward and >perpetrate a massive lie. There needs to be some track record of >deception for something like that to occur. Yet his public >career suggests both in the US Army and FEMA suggest a man of >the highest integrity, so why would he threaten it all by >perpetrating a massive hoax. For your evaluation to be correct, >Dean would have to have been lying continuously over a 14 year >period about the events he described. That is very unlikely as >any who meet Dean quickly conclude in terms of his obvious >integrity and sincerity. Let's think about this. There was a judge in Illinois, Michael O'Brien, who claimed to have the Medal of Honor. For years he made the claim, it was printed in a pamphlet available in his chambers. He even applied for the special license plates available only to winners of the Medal of Honor. He was exposed as a fraud. Now, using your argument, why would a circuit judge lie about something like that? Why would he have it printed in a pamphlet about him? I mean, the guy was a judge. And yes, he was very sincere and had the obvious integrity that you would expect from a judge. So, these outward traits don't mean much without other forms of proof of which there is none. >As far as the Ultra classification is concerned, you say that it >was used by the British in the Second World War and that it was >not used by NATO. So why wouldn't it be possible for NATO to >introduce such a classification and successfully keep it secret? Simply because they normally don't recycle code words, but even if they did, there is no evidence that such is the case. Those who would have been in a position to know have said that it wasn't used. Historians have said that it was not part of the NATO lexicon. Again, we have Dean's testimony that stands alone. Without evidence, without some kind of additional corroboration, why should we not be skeptical? >After all, isn't what that above top secret classification codes >are supposed to achieve? As for the title sheet of the >Assessment that was shown to be a forgery. As you say yourself, >Dean claimed that he never said it was genuine. While you might >protest he was spinning a negative result, that doesn't negate >his claim. That's only your opinion. Yes, but the point is that he offered it as evidence that The Assessment existed. When the negative results were announced, he then said that he hadn't said it was genuine. This does not bode well. We have nothing else to prove The Assessment existed and all evidence gathered to this point suggests that it does not. >As for lack of >corroboration for the Assessment, that is certainly a problem >but it doesn't prove Dean lied. It just means that there is lack >of corrobation for his claims. Nevertheless, given he served in >SHOC, achieved the highest military honors possible for an NCO, >all suggest a very dedicated and capable military man who served >with distinction during his 27 year service. So why would >someone like that come out and for 14 years consistently promote >a hoax? That's very unlikely and leads to my and others >conclusion that Dean is telling the truth. You ask why has Dean >not suffered prosecution for his unauthorized disclosure, >perhaps because he serves a function useful to those in control >of Cosmic Watergate - controlled leak of information while >maintaining plausible deniability. Surely you would agree that >an acclimation program through the use of select whistleblowers >would serve a useful function for controllers to guard against a >suddent collapse of Cosmic Watergate, e.g., an ET mothership >over New York City? In the end it boils down to a lack of any supportive evidence and a question of why Dean would invent this tale if it is not true. Unless and until there is some kind of supportive documentation or other confirming evidence, we should remain skeptical. After all, those making the claims are required to provide evidence that the claims are true. It's not up to us to prove them false. A number of people have worked hard to find the corroboration and to this point they
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 They're Still At It From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:41:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:41:03 -0500 Subject: They're Still At It Source: The Island Gazette - Carolina Beach, North Carolina, USA http://islandgazette.net/newspm/more.php?id=6092_0_1_0_M Dec 07, 05 Ohldepharte: They're Still At It By Terry Moore Exactly a year ago, I wrote a column entitled "They're Watching Us." Just in case you don't quite remember that memorable literary gem, it was about what the extraterrestrials or aliens flitting about up there, out there or wherever there must think of us humans as they watch us scurrying about like ants in our daily activities down here on earth. The concept came to me when, well fortified with wine, I spent a few afternoons during the prior summer studying the tiny little ants hustling and bustling along the concrete apron of our pool. I wondered if maybe the extraterrestrials might look upon us we look upon the ants. Well, as luck (mostly your bad luck) would have it, a year later, well fortified by a significant quantity of Budweiser, I sat in the near darkness at a benefit jazz concert pondering the imponderables of life on this here planet Earth. Recently, I'd read about the former Canadian Deputy Prime Minister and Member of Parliament and also former National Defence Minister, Paul Hellyer. It seems he's calling for the Canadian Parliament to hold hearings on the subject of Exopolitics. Don't bother to look that one up folks - it ain't in the dictionary yet - not even in Joe Coen's dictionary. Mr. Hellyer claimed in a speech at the University of Toronto, "UFOs are as real as the airplanes that fly over your head." He claimed the secrecy surrounding the incidents at Roswell, NM has been so tight that hardly anyone in the US knows the truth. Hellyer says the US military is preparing weapons to use against the extraterrestrial aliens, and he contends the Bush administration has agreed to let the military have a base on the moon for watching the ETs and shooting at them if they so decide. Hellyer is worried the US could get us into an intergalactic war without any warning. Now, I wouldn't put it past the evil axis of American Politics, that three-stooge cabal of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld to start a war in space, but it just seems a little far fetched to me. But on the other hand, maybe Bush finally has found the weapons of mass destruction - and they are his. Getting back to the subject of exopolitics Hellyer wants parliament to study, it's basically about the political interrelationship between humans and extraterrestrials, and especially about the controlling influence the extraterrestrials have had on the people and events here on earth. The word exopolitics was coined by Michael E Salla, PhD in his book, "Exopolitics." Dr. Salla states that the people, processes and institutions of politics have been strongly influenced by secret extraterrestrial presence on out planet for the last 70 years. Okay, for the sake of argument, let's say the world decides to take exopolitics seriously. After all, we've had thousands and thousands of sightings of UFOs since 1947, many by highly qualified observers who have not been sucking on Budweisers. And, the recent spate of sightings of large, black triangles in the sky has added fuel to the alien fire. Maybe there really are little green fellers flying around up there. When the aliens finally do decide to fess up and communicate with us unwashed masses down here, I don't think it's going to be real nice like the ending of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." On the other hand, maybe they really are nice guys who just want to chat with us. If they've been watching us for 70 years, they've gotta have beaucoup questions about the nutty behavior of humans. But, how do you chat with someone who's intelligent enough to get here from millions of light years away - or who's clever enough to get through a worm hole from a nearby parallel universe? Surely you don't talk about the weather - not after they've been flying around in it for 70 years. No, small talk just won't cut it. As a society of peoples, we've got to develop an agenda for what to discuss with them. We've got to prioritize the important things to talk about - that is, if we don't shoot �em all out of the sky first. The Liberals will want to make sure they learn about social security and Medicare - even if they live to be a thousand and have no illnesses. The radical rabid religious right will insist they all get bibles and understand they were created by OUR God, while Bush and the Conservatives will give them all a tax cut and urge them to use petroleum based products. God only knows what the French will want them to learn. No wonder the aliens decided to stay up there and not come down and communicate with us. Terry & Gwynne welcome your kudos or slings and arrows at
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 WVU Scientists Deserve Credit From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:45:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:45:35 -0500 Subject: WVU Scientists Deserve Credit Source: The Intelligencer - Wheeling, West Virginia, USA http://www.news-register.net/edit/story/1212202005_edt01.asp December 12, 2005 WVU Scientists Deserve Credit The Intelligencer Two West Virginia University scientists deserve far more credit than they will receive for their intellectual honesty. It probably cost them, after all, a chance for a certain amount of fame via television - which, in this context, richly deserves the nickname "boob tube." More than a few in the broadcasting community have found pots of gold in the "paranormal" - everything from ghosts to unidentified flying objects. A substantial number of "boob tube" viewers can be counted upon to tune in to programs concerning such subjects. One means of obtaining a bigger audience is to claim that evidence of a government "coverup" has been found. That's just what the Sci Fi Channel seems to be attempting in its "investigation" of a "UFO" that allegedly landed near Kecksburg, Pa. in 1965. The "UFO" was a Soviet satellite, according to the U.S. government. But an "investigative reporter" for the Sci Fi Channel and a group of people connected to the channel have sued the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, demanding more information on the "UFO." NASA, unfortunately, says most records of the government investigation have been lost. A standard technique in UFO "investigations" is to find someone who will claim that a UFO landing site shows damage that could not have been caused by any natural event or human activity. That's where WVU scientists Ray Hicks and J. Steven Kite came into the picture. They investigated the site near Kecksburg. Hicks, a forestry professor, indeed determined that trees at the site were damaged in 1965 - but he added that the damage probably was caused by an ice storm. He emphasized that he found no evidence that "something physically landed" at the site. Kite, a geoarchaeologist, agreed that he could find no evidence of any large object landing at the site. You probably won't see the two on the "boob tube" explaining their investigations - because they don't back up the UFO theory. But, simply because they chose truth over "20 seconds of fame," Kite and Hicks deserve to be commended. Fortunately, at least at
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Did ET Stay Home, Then? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:49:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:49:26 -0500 Subject: Did ET Stay Home, Then? Source: EDP24 - Norwich, Norlfolk, UK http://tinyurl.com/c5nv6 12 December 2005 Did ET Stay Home, Then? Mark Nicholls While the low red lights that illuminated the pathway between the lecture hall and the observatory may have seemed like an impromptu landing strip for a UFO, there was no sign of an imminent arrival of little green men at Seething over the weekend. The debate over whether there are other life forms in the solar system and the greater universe was the subject of lectures at Seething Observatory. Organised by Norwich Astronomical Society, more than 50 people turned up on both Friday and Saturday nights to hear a lecture by society chairman Mark Lawrik-Thompson called "Life on Earth and beyond" and posing the question: "UFOs and aliens - real or not?" Mr Lawrik-Thompson explained there was every probability that other life forms exist in the universe, given the size and scale of space and the fact there may be other planets similar to Earth circling stars in distant galaxies. He explored the possibility of there being life on Mars and on moons that orbit the great planets of Saturn and Jupiter. "Given the scale of the universe, the chances are that there is life out there. Whether it is intelligent or not is a different matter," he said. The universe is 13 billion years old and infinite in size, so is it really too much to imagine that we are not the only civilisation that has evolved? he asked. He said that for the past few years Norfolk had been at the centre of a number of UFO sightings. After investigation however, it turned out that 95pc of these sightings could be explained quite rationally, often as common phenomena in the sky. And he added: "I do not know many astronomers who have seen UFOs, because they know what they are looking at in the sky." As evidence that primitive life may exist elsewhere, Mr Lawrik- Thompson pointed to examples on Earth of life forms existing in difficult conditions, such as thousands of feet below the surface of the oceans. He said the lecture, attended by regular club supporters and visitors, was meant to be a look at the science and the search for life in the solar system and the universe. It also looked at probes being sent into space and a new generation of space telescopes. Visitors to the event also had the chance to look through the society's telescopes for views of Mars, the Moon and Saturn. Mr Lawrik-Thompson concluded: "If there is life out there, it is going to be very, very primitive."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Reich Eisenhower's Secret Ally Against Aliens From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:55:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:55:49 -0500 Subject: Reich Eisenhower's Secret Ally Against Aliens Source: Phenomena Magazine - Venice, California, USA http://tinyurl.com/7nxc3 Monday, December 12, 2005 =46rom Orgone Energy To Roswell Wilhelm Reich: Eisenhower's Secret Ally Against the Aliens By: Kenn Thomas Conspiracy Author and Investigator In one version of the story, President Dwight D. Eisenhower was flown to Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton, Ohio on February 20, 1954 to see the debris and dead bodies from the infamous UFO crash of 1947 at Roswell, New Mexico. Some versions weave a far more elaborate tale and maintain that Ike met with human-looking aliens and began intergalactic peace talks with both them and several other extraterrestrial races. Ike reportedly struggled to deal with those alien presences in the remaining years of his presidency and retired in frustration in 1961, giving a gravely foreboding warning that the military industrial complex he helped create would spin wildly out of control. Or so the story goes among UFO enthusiasts and folklorists. Although the Eisenhower tale remains a well-known one within the history of the UFO puzzle, like many similar tales no concrete proof has, to date, been forthcoming. Unlike many similar legends, however, there is a historical trail of data that does provide, at least, some provocative and intriguing corroboration for the stories concerning Ike and aliens. Strangely enough, archival documentation and secondary historical sources come together in remarkable ways regarding President Eisenhower's connection to the UFO subject. Stranger still, those crossroads occur primarily in the biography and career of one of Sigmund Freud's most renowned prot=E9g=E9s, Wilhelm Reich, who spent his final years in America chasing UFOs, ostensibly with Eisenhower's blessing, and leaving behind an unusual and illuminating paper trail. Reich's story begins in Vienna in the 1920s. Recognized as a maverick in Freud's inner circle, Reich was eventually dismissed by Freud. And as a member of the Communist Party, Reich's ideas were deemed too psychoanalytic, and he was summarily dismissed from the party as well. With the ascendancy of the Nazis in Germany, however, Reich fled first to Norway and then to America, moving away from both psychoanalysis and Marxism into equally controversial areas. It was during this period that Reich discovered what he termed =93Orgone,=94 (or OR) a =93universal cosmic and biological energy=94 that Reich believed was ever-present throughout both the Cosmos and living bodies. Reich claimed to have constructed a device that he called an Orgone Accumulator, and that allegedly both collected and accumulated Orgone from the atmosphere. Reich further claimed that exposure to Orgone, particularly through sitting in the Accumulator, promoted both health and vitality, and was an effective treatment for cancer. Reich also asserted that he had detected another energy, that he called =93Deadly Orgone Radiation,=94 or DOR, and which produced negative health effects. In the Eisenhower America of the 1950s, Reich reputedly used Orgone energy to combat hostile UFOs that were seen soaring across the skies of the United States. The historical record suggests, too, that Reich met with Eisenhower at around the time that the president supposedly had his secret liaison with the extraterrestrials. Dwight Eisenhower's contact with aliens occurred in February 1954, according to the legend. However, the president's cover story=97that he was on vacation in Palm Springs, Florida=97was belied by the fact that he had just returned from a vacation in Georgia. And it is indeed a reality that the media of the day reported the alarming news of a total disappearance by Ike on the night of February 20 during the Palm Springs stay. The official explanation offered after the fact was that the president had lost a tooth cap during a meal and was forced to make a late-night visit to a local dentist. Evidence of this does not appear in the existing, extensive medical record on Dwight Eisenhower from his time as president, however. Interestingly, the widow of the dentist had only vague memories of the event, which by any measure should surely have made a detailed and lasting impression on her. Was Ike really flown to Wright Patterson Air Force Base on that fateful night to view the recovered saucer and alien bodies from the crash at Roswell, as the persistent rumors suggest? Enter Wilhelm Reich. In the course of his UFO adventures in 1955, Reich traveled through Roswell, New Mexico. He was on his way to Tucson, Arizona with his =93Orgone equipment,=94 to study its capacity to alleviate desert conditions. Reich went on to record these experiences in his book, Contact With Space, now an extremely hard-to-find underground classic. Although his immediate destination was Ruidoso Downs, New Mexico, there seems little doubt that Reich had aliens firmly impressed upon his mind as he passed through the town of Roswell. Reich wrote: =93Although it was very hot as we neared Roswell, New Mexico, no OR flow was visible on the road, which should have been shimmering with =91heat-waves'. Instead, DOR was well marked to the west against purplish, black, barren mountains, in the sky as a blinding grayness, and over the horizon as a grayish layer. The caking of formerly good soil was progressively characteristic and eventually caked soil prevailed over the vegetation, which now consisted only of scattered low brushes, while grass disappeared.=94 The Roswell episode in Contact With Space concludes: =93After the desert valley it was a relief to spend a night in Ruidoso, New Mexico, in the Sierra Blanca Mountains (near 7000 feet). Here a strong, reactive secondary vegetation had sprung up, again more marked on the western slope=85=94 Skeptics of the Roswell story often claim that interest in the event dropped off immediately after its initial media flash, only to be revived in the late 1980s by unreliable UFO researchers seeking to profit from a myth of their own creation. Reich's visit to Roswell, with its clear references to aliens, contradicts that assumption. So does remarkably strong archival documentation from several disparate sources that show an interlocking connection between Reich and Dwight Eisenhower. First in this line of documentation is the so-called =93Cutler- Twining memo.=94 The National Archives in Maryland still contains this onion-skinned carbon of a memo calling for the postponement of a meeting of a special studies section of a group known as MJ-12. UFO researchers recognize MJ-12 as a super-secret group of scientists, intelligence personnel and military men that was created by President Harry Truman in direct response to the events at Roswell in July 1947. Skeptics claim that all of the documents reflecting this possibility have been faked. Nevertheless, the National Archives retains this one letter, unwilling or unable to establish with any degree of certainty that it is not authentic. Its date: July 14, 1954, five months from Eisenhower's supposed meeting with the aliens. The author of the C-T memo, Robert Cutler, served in the CIA under Eisenhower in its division of psychological operations and had virtually written Ike's famous =93Atoms for Peace=94 speech, which took as its title a phrase used by Reich long before to describe his Orgone work. The second curious document in this research line was recovered only recently by an investigator named Jim Martin, whose comprehensive examination of Wilhelm Reich's life in the 1950s can be found within the pages of Wilhelm Reich and the Cold War. Referred to as the Moise-Douglas memo, it was discovered by Martin in the archives of Lew Douglas, a member of Eisenhower's =93kitchen cabinet,=94 who was assigned to a presidential committee on weather control. In Contact With Space, Reich claimed that he had corresponded with Douglas; and Martin's discovery of this memo strongly suggests Reich was speaking truthfully. From Douglas himself, it describes the latest of several failed attempts by Reich's assistant, William Moise, to make contact with this high ranking official in the Eisenhower administration. Although the memo itself is not dated, a handwritten note at its bottom indicates a great change of heart by Douglas, who ultimately did telegraph Moise on July 27, 1954. Douglas' about-face with regard to Reich, coming at any point in July 1954, indicates that he had been briefed at the MJ-12 meeting described in the Cutler-Twining memo. The object of the =93Special Studies Project,=94 at least in part, would be Reich's counterattack on UFOs. In the end, Douglas wound up bankrolling in part some of Reich's environmental work in Tucson. Then there is Reich's own meeting with Eisenhower. One witness claimed that during a hunting- and fishing-trip to Rangeley, Maine (where Reich's Orgonon lab was located) Eisenhower met face to face with the inventor of the anti-UFO technology. The Eisenhower Library even records a visit to Rangeley by the president during that UFO laden period of the mid-1950s, from June to July 1955. In the end, however, the memory of the witness to the meeting became as vague as that of the dentist's widow from Ike's alien visit of the year before. The historic trail vaporizes after that, to re-emerge obliquely only once. According to the biography of his second wife, the screen comedian Jackie Gleason caught a glimpse of alien bodies in 1973 at the behest of then president Richard Nixon. Nixon, of course, had been Eisenhower's vice president. He took his friend Gleason to a secret facility in Florida, where Ike had disappeared for one night for his visitation with aliens all those years before. Does any of this data amount to proof that such creatures exist and that Eisenhower met with them? Such questions always contain relative judgments, and, of course, in the end no absolute proof can be offered for anything. However, more historic evidence exists for this bizarre proposition, for instance, than for Lyndon Johnson's claim of an attack on US ships in the Gulf of Tonkin or George Bush's claims for the existence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. Reich was eventually prosecuted for his Orgone devices. They had been unfairly characterized as quack cancer cure machines, and a technical violation of an FDA injunction led to Reich's imprisonment. Federal authorities duly destroyed much of his scientific equipment and his books were burned. Many believe that the prosecution resulted from big-money medical and pharmaceutical interests threatened by Reich's work. He died in prison in 1957. Some of the language contained in Eisenhower's retirement speech, the one that coined the phrase =93military-industrial complex=94, conjures up an image of Wilhelm Reich, Ike's possible secret ally in the war against extraterrestrials: =93Today,=94 Eisenhower noted, =93the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields=85a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present =85=94 Although the record suggests that Reich received both interest and support from the Eisenhower administration in his desert battles against UFOs, he never required it. Although Reich believed in nuts and bolts space ships piloted by extra- terrestrials, he regarded contact with them as character logical events, not simply sightings of craft. But he needed no stamp of approval from any government authority to make this claim. =93There is no proof,=94 wrote Reich in Contact With Space. =93There are no authorities whatever. No president, Academy, Court of Law, Congress or Senate on this earth has the knowledge or power to decide what will be the knowledge of tomorrow. There is no use in trying to prove something that is unknown to somebody who is ignorant of the unknown, or fearful of its threatening power. Only the good old rules of learning will eventually bring about understanding of what has invaded our earthly existence.=94 Reprinted from Phenomena Issue Four. Copyright 2004 Phenomena Entertainment Group LLC. Kenn Thomas has authored over a dozen books on various conspiracy topics. Thomas also publishes Steamshovel Press, a magazine that regularly examines conspiracies. It's motto: =93All conspiracy. No theory.=94 Steamshovel can be reached at POB 210553, St. Louis, MO 63121. A sample issue costs $7 and a four- issue subscription costs $25 (all checks payable to =93Kenn Thomas.=94) On the web, Steamshovel can be found at www.steamshovelpress.com. The Wilhelm Reich Museum: The Wilhelm Reich Museum at Orgonon was both Reich's home and his place of work. Located in the Rangeley Lakes Region of Maine and comprising no less than 175 acres of fields and woodland, it represents the life and work of this renowned researcher and the environment in which he investigated the energy functions that he believed govern all living matter. The museum is owned and operated by The Wilhelm Reich Infant Trust that was established by Reich in his will. The Orgone Energy Observatory, designed for Reich in 1948, has been entered in the National Register of Historic Places and visitors to the museum are introduced to Reich's life and work by a video presentation. Biographical materials, inventions, and equipment used in his pioneering experiments are exhibited, and Reich's library, personal memorabilia, sculpture, and paintings are also on view for the visitor. There is a discovery room and play area for children and the observatory deck on the roof provides a spectacular vista of the surrounding countryside. Reich's tomb, with a dramatic bronze portrait bust, stands in a forest clearing nearby. The Conference Center hosts an annual summer conference on various aspects of Reich's work and its relation to current social and scientific issues. This building, formerly a students' laboratory, is also used for the museum's Natural Science Program, which stimulates awareness of the natural environment and provides educational opportunities for its study and appreciation. Museum offices are housed in the conference center and fund-raising events take place there. For further details, contact: The Wilhelm Reich Museum, Orgonon, Dodge Pond Road, P.O. Box 687, Rangeley, ME 04970. Telephone/Fax: (207) 864-5156; Telephone: (207) 864-3443; E-Mail: wreich.nul Also, see the Museum's website: http://www.wilhelmreichmuseum.org/ Wilhelm Reich and the FBI Under the terms of the United States Freedom of Information Act, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has declassified an extensive surveillance file on the activities and life of Wilhelm Reich. In 1947, according to the FBI, a security investigation concluded that the staff of Reich's Orgone Project was not involved in activities that could be termed subversive and was not in violation of any statue that fell within the jurisdiction of the FBI. In 1954, FBI records reveal, the United States Attorney General filed a complaint seeking permanent injunction to prevent interstate shipment of devices and literature put out by Reich's group. That same year, Reich was arrested for contempt of court for violation of the Attorney General's injunction. Those wanting to learn more about the FBI's files on Wilhelm Reich - that reveals a wealth of data on the man, his research and the Government's response to his research and work - can do so at the FBI's website:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Kecksburg 40th Report From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:12:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:12:31 -0500 Subject: Kecksburg 40th Report Source: The Daily Courier - Connellsville, Pennsylvania, USA http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_403076.html Monday, December 12, 2005 Was It A UFO Or Not By By Rachel R. Basinger It was 40 years ago this month when Kecksburg became the center of national attention. Forty years ago, some people say a UFO landed in the small Westmoreland County community. Saturday, hundreds gathered at the Kecksburg Fire Hall to hear of the events which allegedly occurred there and of any new news which was available after years of study. From a group of local researchers to UFO enthusiasts, people came from as far away as Boston. They heard historical accounts and the current status of information of the event. Bill Weaver, of Norvelt, was not only at the 40th anniversary event, he was also an eyewitness to the event when it happened Dec. 9, 1965, at the tender age of 19. "I was driving down the road and heard on the radio that something had happened," Weaver said. "I was in the area and saw people standing along the road, so I stopped and asked what was going on." That's when Weaver was told that something landed in the patch of woods jut beyond the road. After traveling down a farm lane, Weaver pulled his car behind a line of cars that formed there. "From that vantage point I could look down in and see something partially buried that had come in at an angle," Weaver said. It was beginning to get dark, Weaver said. He said the object was emitting a blue light -- almost like the light from a welder's torch. "In the meantime, a big white furniture moving truck (arrived) and people got out in what we would call moon suits," Weaver said. "They were carrying a box on a stretcher down to the object." State police and military personnel showed up and sent the observers away. "They told me they would confiscate my car if I didn't move it," Weaver said. Those few minutes have led to a lifetime of interest for Weaver into the event that causes disagreement between locals and public officials alike as to what really happened. Some are sure that the acorn-shaped object that appeared to have some type of Egyptian hyroglyphics written on it was in fact a UFO, while others take the more explainable path of the object being a Russian satellite that got off course. Bill Steiner, a Mt. Pleasant resident, has done considerable research on the event. He attended Saturday's anniversary. He believes the object was a Russian satellite. "At the time, we were in a big space race with the Russians and I think the best explanation is that it was a Russian satellite that went off course," Steiner said. "People saw it change directions when it came down, and if it were a meteor, it would have come on a straight path with much more force." He said the acorn shape described is consistent with the heat shield which would have been on the bottom of a satellite at the time, although the one modeled in the Kecksburg incident is much smaller. In addition, Steiner said the writing that a lot of people have mistook for Egyptian hyroglyphics or some alien writing, could in fact have been a type of alphabet known as Russian Cyrilic, which looks much like Egyptian hyroglyphics. He said there also is several explanations as to the secrecy of government officials and the precautions taken at the time. "It's very possible that they might have been concerned about a plutonium leak, which is one of the deadliest substances known to man," Steiner said. Steiner said if it were a Russian satellite, the military would want the chance to look inside without the Russians finding out that they were in possession of the object. But Weaver is still open to all possibilities. "I don't know for certain that it wasn't a UFO," Weaver said. "All I can surmise is that it could have been a Russian rocket or satellite." Saturday was filled with a variety of other speakers who have researched the event or were a part of the event 40 years ago. Stan Gordon, a local researcher, has conducted an investigation on the incident for the past 40 years. Robert Gatty, a reporter for the Tribune-Review in 1965, described his assignment that night and how he was prevented from approaching the object by numerous Army personnel on the scene. Larry Landsman, director of special projects for the Sci-Fi Channel, discussed the channel's UFO Advocacy Initiative that supported a recent investigation of the Kecksburg case by the Coalition for Freedom of Information. The cable channel also produced two TV documentaries on Kecksburg that aired in 2003. Leslie Kean, a journalist, spoke on the forensic evidence recently discovered at the crash site and on her interviews with Air Force personnel involved in the search of the alleged UFO. Lee E. Helfrich, an attorney, spoke about the current status of the lawsuit filed against NASA in 2003 to gain access information about the Kecksburg incident. Former Mt. Pleasant Township supervisor Duane Hutter said he is
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Life As We Do Not Know It From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:26:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:26:35 -0500 Subject: Life As We Do Not Know It Source: The Space Review - Rockville, Maryland, USA http://www.thespacereview.com/article/516/1 Monday, December 12, 2005 Review: Life As We Do Not Know It by Jeff Foust Life as We Do Not Know It: The NASA Search for (and Synthesis of) Alien Life by Peter Ward Viking, 2005 Hardcover, 292 pp., illus. ISBN 0-670-03458-4 US$25.95/C$36 "It's life, Jim, but not as we know it." =96 from the song "Star Trekkin'" by The Firm Alien life has been one of the staples of science fiction since the origins of the genre, and Star Trek, one of its best-known examples, has hardly shied away from it. Yet, while the line above=97taken from a memorable (if annoying) parody of the original series=97has been indelibly linked to the Star Trek franchise, it is hardly representative of the life forms seen in its various incarnations on the big and small screen. For every unusual alien, be it a vaporous cloud or the silicon-based Horta, Star Trek featured dozens, if not hundreds, of humanoid aliens, differing from humans only through some combination of forehead ridges, crumpled noses, or pointed ears (and almost all speaking flawless English, of course.) Such are the limitations of the makeup and special effects budgets of a TV series, one might argue. Yet even the Star Wars epics, with budgets far larger than any television series, feature a menagerie of aliens not so dissimilar that they could not socialize together at the Mos Eisley cantina. The questions of just how, well, alien alien life can be is a more than just an issue for science fiction enthusiasts. For those involved with the fledging science of astrobiology, this is a central issue: after all, if something is life "not as we know it", how, in fact, would we know it to be life at all? As terrestrial biologists discover just how diverse life on our own planet is, planetary scientists discover evidence that several locales in our solar system, including Mars, Europa, and Titan, may have been=97or could still be=97hospitable to at least some kind of life. But what kind of life, exactly? That is the question that Peter Ward, an astrobiologist at the University of Washington (UW), tries to tackle in Life as We Do Not Know It. Ward is famous=97or perhaps infamous=97for the 2000 book Rare Earth, where he and UW colleague Donald Brownlee argued that while simple microbial life might be commonplace in the universe, complex life (including intelligent life) would be highly uncommon. This conclusion raised the ire of many supporters of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI), which Ward says, "like the science fiction industry, depends on a belief in aliens for its economic viability." Some critics of that book pointed out that its conclusions were based on the assumption that life must be "Earthlike" and thus can only be supported on relatively rare Earthlike planets. What if there were different types of life that could find niches on worlds not at all similar to the Earth? While Ward is still a SETI skeptic (he recalls with a bit of glee a chance encounter with SETI astronomer Jill Tartar at the home of Microsoft cofounder Paul Allen) he is certainly open to the possibility that life beyond Earth need not look anything like life on Earth. Indeed, in the first part of Life as We Do Not Know It Ward makes the case that "alien" life=97life that is not based on two-stranded DNA and twenty amino acids=97may in fact exist on Earth itself, either in hidden niches deep in the oceans and beneath the surface, or in the laboratories of biochemists. Ward argues that such alien life has already been discovered and is familiar to most everyone: viruses, which most conventional biologists do not consider to be living since they cannot reproduce on their own. (Ward admits that his point of view is "heretical" but shared by some other scientists.) Understanding the various alternative forms that life can take on, including using ammonia in place of water or (less likely) silicon in place of carbon, leads Ward to the second half of the book, where he tours the solar system in search of potential abodes of life. These range from the upper atmosphere of Venus to the subsurface of Mars, as well as the oceans below Europa's icy crust and Titan's cold but organics-rich surface. Ward is particularly optimistic about Mars, noting the detections of methane in that planet's atmosphere, and Titan, where hotspots below the surface could nurture life of some kind. He is less optimistic about Europa, which he believes is too cold for Earthlike life and "not weird enough" to support the formation of alien life. In just over 250 pages of text (plus an extensive references section), Ward does an admirable job offering facts and opinions on the subject of astrobiology and the question of what, exactly, is life. There are a few nits to pick, such as some minor but consistent spelling errors ("Alan Hills" instead of "Allan Hills", the source of Martian meteorite ALH 84001, and "Cal Tech" instead of "Caltech"). Many of the people mentioned in the book are colleagues of Ward at UW: Ward is director of the UW "node" of the NASA Astrobiology Institute and administers a five-year grant that NASA awarded the university in 2001, and he admits early on in the book that he will frequently refer to his colleagues' work throughout the text. Finally, while astrobiology is a rapidly-evolving field of research=97he states that the "astonishing rush" of discovery has rendered obsolete many books on the subject, even those published in the last five years=97Life as We Do Not Know It has a slightly stale feel to it: although officially published in November 2005, there is little discussion of, as one example, the results of the Huygens probe that landed on Titan in January. And in the acknowledgments section Ward thanks several NASA officials, including "its administrator, Sean O'Keefe", even though O'Keefe announced his resignation a year ago and left the space agency in early 2005. For those used to reading about planetary science or space exploration=97especially those who have not studied biology since high school or college=97the first half of Life as We Do Not Know It may be a bit of a hard slog, as Ward introduces some molecular biology concepts to the reader as part of the discussion of what is life and how life might differ from what is known on the Earth. However, the result is rewarding in more ways than one. Not only does Ward offer some eye-opening insights into the concept of life and how it might take hold elsewhere in the solar system, it turns out he is an advocate of human space exploration to search for such life. Ward admits that his conversion to a human spaceflight proponent is new: "Even a year ago I would certainly have protested such a proposal." However, he argues that only humans have the skills to look for rock fragments on the surface of the Moon that may be detritus from the Earth, Mars, or Venus that could offer insights into their early histories and potential for life; look for fossils on Mars; or even search for life of some sort on Titan. His case for sending a paleontologist to Mars is strong, although not that novel (others, such as Robert Zubrin, have long argued that humans are much better suited for looking for fossils than even the most advanced robotic rovers); the reverse is true for Titan. Nonetheless, the search for life, familiar or bizarre, elsewhere in the solar system may yet become one of the more compelling rationales for human space exploration: life searching for life. Jeff Foust (jeff.nul) is the editor and publisher of The Space Review. He also operates the Spacetoday.net web site and the Space Politics weblog. Views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author alone, and do not
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Supernatural Ideas Do Not Fit With Science From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:32:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:32:06 -0500 Subject: Supernatural Ideas Do Not Fit With Science Source: The Clarion-Ledger - Reno, Nevada, USA http://tinyurl.com/dntok December 11, 2005 Con: Supernatural Ideas Do Not Fit With Science By John Davis Special to The Clarion-Ledger The intelligent design movement aims to bring supernatural explanations into science. But supernatural forces would be beyond the ability of scientists to control, repeat and predict. ID seeks nothing less than to undo the 400 years since Galileo developed science's methods. Consider the consequences: Do we want "supernatural science" in NASA or the Centers for Disease Control? High school classrooms are the battleground now and it could happen. As part of embracing ID, the Kansas school board has specifically mandated that natural explanations may not be necessary in science classes! Similar language was drafted by Phillip Johnson, adviser to the ID think-tank the Discovery Institute, for the 2001 "No Child Left Behind" bill. It was removed, but ID is marching on. The vehicle for advancing intelligent design is the crusade to get creationism into the schools. According to the movement's "wedge" manifesto, the real goal is breathtakingly greater =97 to overthrow "materialistic science" altogether! ID creation scientists are different from those seeking proofs of a literal Genesis. It is a tenet of the ID movement that the designer could be in a UFO. The ID designer could be any deity or a committee. Hence, the Raelian "flying saucer" sect and Myung Moon's Unification Church support ID, along with some conservative Christians. We cannot know if the ID designer only worked in the past or is still at it. Nor can we know what the designer does. Therefore, ID can't be tested by the methods of science. ID is not a research program. "Supernatural science" doesn't work. "The designer did it" tells us nothing about, say, bacterial resistance to antibiotics or the record of life on earth. Invoking the designer will even prevent asking answerable questions. First enunciated by a clergyman in 1803, ID is really just two assertions: The complexity of life is improbable and at some level, the components of living things had to be made all at once in order to work. But after-the-fact probabilities are like telling the lottery winner it didn't happen because the odds of winning were too small. Proteins are specific and complex, but viruses and bacteria, under selection pressure, have fabricated new proteins acting against drugs found nowhere in nature. The development of integrated biochemical systems like that involved in blood clotting is explicable through gene duplication from simpler systems. Promoters of ID have shifted the question of why it should be taught to an argument about fairness. Controversies within science abound, but ID isn't science. Fringe ideas face hurdles in gaining acceptance and entry into textbooks. Unconventional ideas like continental drift can become mainstream, but only after thorough testing by the methods of science. Intelligent design seeks to short circuit this process with PR and political friends. A science teacher would have a hard time explaining to confused students how to make the scientific method work with supernatural forces, but ID could be taught in a course on "new age" religions. An unknowable designer who does unknowable things is not useful to either faith or science. John Davis of Jackson is a research entomologist and retired
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Soviet Ufology From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:38:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: Soviet Ufology Source: FATE Magazine - Lakeville, Minnesota, USA http://www.fatemag.com/2005_12art1.html FATE Magazine - December 2005 Soviet Ufology by Vladimir V. Rubtsov What is the state of world ufology nowadays? Having been engaged in ufological investigations for some 40 years, and firmly believing that these investigations are of very high importance for science as well as for the future of humanity, I feel I have some right to offer an opinion. Ufology today is a heterogeneous mixture of serious research with entertainment, pop-religion, and hysteria. There exists a distinguished circle of serious UFO students in various countries, but the general public judges ufology by its worst elements. Some 40 years ago Jacques Vallee described the UFO phenomenon as a "challenge to science." Science as a social institution has pusillanimously refused to meet this challenge and shirked its main responsibility to society - namely, serving it as a searchlight, not as a blindfold. Fortunately, some individual scientists have been more responsible, thanks to which UFO phenomena are still being investigated. What place was occupied by the now-departed Soviet branch of ufology, and what place is occupied by its shade? Until the middle 1980s only a feeble streamlet of Soviet UFO data reached Western ufological organizations. It contained both reliable and not-so-reliable reports, the usual mixture of obvious IFOs and quasi-UFOs with true UFOs. This was fully explainable and did not cause much discontent on the part of Western ufologists. Everyone understood that these data were obtained with difficulty in a totalitarian state, being another - and valuable - confirmation that flying saucers under socialism do not differ significantly from their democratic counterparts. And thank goodness for that. Beginning with 1986, however, this streamlet turned into a real flood. It became possible for Soviet citizens in general, and for Soviet ufologists in particular, to go abroad and participate in ufological meetings, which resulted in considerable expansion of the data exchange. Even the secret UFO reports gathered by the Ministry of Defense became available to the public in the atmosphere of economic and social liberation. There is a danger, however, that all the difficult experience of Soviet ufology will be reduced to effusive citations from post- Soviet newspapers about alleged Roswell-like incidents and other wild rumors. Pop-ufology is already exploiting this tasty morsel, making serious research more difficult and worsening the general atmosphere of superficial and incompetent denial of UFOs by "educated" (or rather miseducated) public opinion in the West. The situation in the USSR was always very different in this respect. Soviet ufology originated and existed as a pure field of research and cognitive interest. Yes, the state suppressed independent investigations in this field, but at least we lacked any sort of pop-ufology. An ostrich cannot keep its head in the sand forever; sooner or later the poor thing will have to pull it out and look around. Similarly, one day in the future, science will discover that UFO phenomena deserve serious study. Then the data accumulated by Soviet ufologists will be properly used. Nervous Life in a Bureaucratic Environment Ufology in the USSR had two different wings: official, government-funded studies, and independent or "dissident" research. Both had their pluses and minuses. The former was sometimes overly skeptical, the latter overly enthusiastic. Their mutual relations were less than serene. Independent ufology emerged first, but the most essential findings were certainly made during the fulfillment of the government-funded UFO study program. I participated in Soviet ufology on both sides. Independent Soviet ufology originated in the late 1950s through the mid-=9260s in the talks and papers of Yuriy Fomin, an engineer and lecturer at the All-Union Society for Propagation of Political and Scientific Knowledge, and of Felix Zigel, Assistant Professor at Moscow Aviation Institute. UFO observations in this period were not few and far between, but witnesses usually did not know where to report their observations. Some wrote to astronomical observatories and popular science journals, usually receiving a few indifferent words in reply. Only debunking articles were then allowed to appear in Soviet newspapers and journals. The official position for a long time remained unequivocal: Soviet people never see any mysterious objects in the sky, but even when they do, specialists can always convincingly account for the events. In October 1967, Dr. Zigel established in Moscow the first Soviet public organization dedicated to collecting and analyzing UFO reports: the UFO Department of the All-Union Space- Exploration Committee of the USSR Voluntary Society of Support to the Army, Aviation, and Navy (DOSAAF). It included more than 200 scientists, engineers, military representatives, journalists, and others. Its elected head was Major-General Stolyarov; his deputy for science was Zigel. On November 10 they spoke on central TV about the new organization and invited UFO observers to send in their reports. Reports arrived and were used by Zigel to prepare the first volume of his famous typewritten collection, UFO Observations in the USSR. But in the meantime the Soviet authorities realized their mistake, and in November the Central Committee of DOSAAF disbanded the UFO Department. Sometime later the Branch of General and Applied Physics of the USSR Academy of Sciences passed a resolution against UFO research in the Soviet Union. In the late 1970s, ten years after Zigel compiled his first collection, it was subjected to serious statistical analysis by Soviet scientists L. M. Gindilis, D. A. Men=92kov, and I. G. Petrovskaya. They concluded that there was no conventional explanation for one-third of these reports. Clearly, there was something here worth studying. However, the ban on public UFO studies in the USSR did have a certain rational basis. Regardless of how much the Soviet scientific establishment overestimated its importance and authority, the main force behind this prohibition was the Soviet military-industrial complex. Military leaders feared that publicity given to UFO sightings (some of which were undoubtedly inspired by chance observations of military and space rocketry) might result in the uncontrolled circulation of military secrets. Strategic parity with the U.S. was the chief political goal of Soviet leaders under Leonid Brezhnev, and "flying saucers" were not the biggest thing sacrificed for this purpose. Glavlit, the censorship office, was ordered to prevent any publications on the UFO problem, except those that said there was no problem. Even the term "unidentified flying objects" was prohibited. Organized independent UFO research in the USSR ceased - leaving only the most stubborn dissident ufologists. By 1977 it seemed that the Dark Age of Soviet ufology would never end. But then something unexpected happened, and changed everything in the Soviet ufological scene. Red Army UFO Alert In the early morning of September 20, 1977, the residents of Petrozavodsk, capital of the Karelian Autonomous Republic, witnessed the apparition of a luminescent jellyfish in the dark sky, throwing "a multitude of thinnest ray spurts" over the city. Thanks to careless censorship, the incident was reported by the largest Soviet newspapers. It raised many questions within the Soviet Union and beyond. We know today that the Petrozavodsk phenomenon occurred almost simultaneously with the launching of the Cosmos-955 satellite from the Plesetsk launching site. But whatever its explanation, this incident will be remembered as the stone that triggered an avalanche. The Petrozavodsk phenomenon attracted attention at the very top and caused the authorities to understand that the UFO phenomenon was worthy of attention. Military and scientific bureaucrats were directed to look into the question. A complex research program was included in the State Plan of Scientific Research Works in Defense Fields for 1978: "Investigation of anomalous atmospheric and space phenomena, their possible origin and influence on the operation of equipment and on the condition of the personnel." This program was divided into two parts: "Setka MO" ("The Net of the Ministry of Defense") - "Studies of anomalous atmospheric and space phenomena and their influence on the operation of military technical equipment and personnel"; and "Setka AN" ("The Net of the Academy of Sciences") - "Studies of the physical nature and mechanisms of manifestations of anomalous atmospheric and space phenomena." In 1981 and 1986, Soviet authorities approved five-year plans that included scientific research on anomalous phenomena. The state-directed program of investigating UFO phenomena proceeded without interruption until 1991, and for several years later on a lesser scale. In accordance with the State Plan, two centers of UFO research were formed, one in the Ministry of Defense and the other in the Academy of Sciences. The main difference between these studies was in their sources of data. The MOD center obtained its information from diverse arms of the service, whereas the academic studies were based on reports gathered in scientific institutes, hydrometeorological centers, and various periodicals. The aims of the two investigations were also different. The military worried about possible harmful influence of UFOs on equipment and personnel, and hoped to puzzle out and use for military purposes such attractive properties of UFOs as radar invisibility and high maneuverability. The Academy of Sciences was mainly interested in investigating the physical nature of the phenomena. Both military and academic researchers understood that only joint effort could lead to a well-substantiated answer to the UFO question. At the same time, I am not sure that the military shared all their data and findings. Most likely, something was and still is kept secret. In January 1980 the Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the USSR authorized a directive that played the main part in all this work, containing instructions on how UFO data should be gathered and where should they be sent for further examination. The directive was immediately announced to every unit of the Soviet armed forces. Now every military man, wherever he was, had to report any extraordinary phenomena he happened to observe in written form to his superiors. For some 13 years the armed forces were put on duty observing anomalous phenomena in the whole territory of the Soviet Union, as well as in those foreign countries where they were stationed. During this period some 3,000 official reports of UFO sightings were obtained. Some 90 percent of them could be explained by conventional causes such as rocket launches and flights of high- altitude balloons. But ten percent of these sightings (some 300 cases) remained unexplained, even after a thorough examination. This figure may not seem that large, but one should note that these were reliable, informative, and detailed reports, filtered on the site by experienced officers, whose main duty was to send only the best data to the center. Bearing this in mind, nobody can assert that UFOs are an invention of irresponsible saucer buffs. In fact, they are real and truly enigmatic. Saucers over Airfields In 1980, I defended my dissertation on philosophical and methodological aspects of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. I was writing a book based on this dissertation, and I wished to include a chapter on the UFO phenomenon and its possible connection with extraterrestrial intelligence. The censorship limitations were still fully alive, however, and the publication of such a chapter had to be approved by the academic committee on anomalous phenomena. I had little hope for such approval, as my sympathy for the extraterrestrial hypothesis was obvious. To my great surprise, the chapter was immediately approved. With time, I was even offered the opportunity to participate in the work of the expert team. However skeptical about the extraterrestrial origin of UFOs the experts seemed in their public statements, they were ready to discuss this possibility seriously among themselves. And they tried to collect as much information about the phenomenon as possible. There are reasons to question whether the gathering of UFO information through official channels was effective, however. One day I went to the Borisoglebsk Military Pilot School to give a lecture on the UFO phenomenon to the fighter pilots and managerial staff. The pilots listened with attention, but reacted poorly. I was somewhat surprised by their passivity. In the evening, meeting in an unofficial atmosphere, the pilots explained to me why they had been so silent. They found themselves between Scylla and Charybdis. On the one hand, there existed the directive of the General Staff, demanding the immediate report of any anomalous observation. On the other hand, the pilots knew well from their own experience that making such a report put them at risk of being sent to a hospital for a long and unpleasant examination. Under these conditions the optimal behavior for a wise pilot meeting a UFO would be to shut his eyes. Within the airspace of the country nobody would consider this a crime. Of course, if a strange object appeared from beyond the border, their behavior would have been radically different. The pilots told me about a very interesting case of radio contact with a UFO and showed me some official documents that confirmed this case. This episode took place on April 9, 1975, in another military pilot school located at the town of Zherdevka of the Tambov Region of Russia. There were the usual training flights that day. In the evening, when the last airplanes were landing, the operator of the airfield radar detected a target in the air. Thinking that it was just another school airplane, the operator gave it commands that were smoothly fulfilled. When a pilot overheard his call sign being used by the operator to talk to the would-be-plane, he expressed his surprise rather loudly. At that moment he was at a low altitude and out of range of the radar. The operator felt something was wrong and gave the target a false command - that was again executed faultlessly. Then the object entered the dead zone of the radar and never returned. Winds of History I could cite here many extraordinary stories of this sort. But such stories in themselves are just a form of folklore. It would be at least na=EFve to expect that one day in the future, having accumulated a very large set of them, we could automatically jump to a scientifically meaningful model of the UFO phenomenon. Eyewitness reports are only a starting point for further collecting of information with the help of scientific instruments and in full conformity with scientific methodology. The mass collection of UFO observations has already reached the limit of its potential. What is needed now is not so much a large-scale official program of UFO studies as a sharp change of scholarly attitude to the UFO problem. Only if the scientific community comes to perceive UFOs as a normal scientific problem will it be possible to move forward. With this aim in view, Dr. Yuliy Platov and I wrote a book to provide an introduction to the UFO problem for the Soviet academic community. The manuscript obtained the approval of several high-ranking academic readers, and in the summer of 1991 it was published under the title UFOs and Modern Science by the central academic publishing house Nauka (Science). Unfortunately, this book was not only the first but also the last Soviet scholarly book on UFOs. After the disintegration of the USSR, Soviet science languished, and, naturally enough, had little inclination to pay serious attention to radically new fields of investigation. After the Petrozavodsk event, Soviet authorities were forced to confront the following questions: Is the UFO phenomenon indeed real? If so, what is it? And can it be dangerous? The first question has been successfully answered: the UFO phenomenon in the strict sense of the term is real. Having established this, it would have been reasonable to move from visual chance observations by eyewitnesses to instrumental observations. If the objects and processes composing the unexplained part of the UFO phenomenon do objectively exist in the atmosphere and near space, it is evident that their physical characteristics can be determined only with the help of sophisticated technical means. The latter may include general- purpose equipment like military radars, as well as other surveillance systems and/or specialized instruments designed and built specially for UFO tracking, but in any case they must have the ability to monitor the whole of near-Earth space, from several hundred meters to a few thousand kilometers in altitude. Why has nobody in Russia ever attempted to develop UFO research in this direction? The answer is simple: too much money and effort would have been needed. In the very grave economic situation of the early 1990s Russia simply could not allocate the necessary funds for an endeavor comparable in its dimensions with the atomic bomb and the first Sputnik. On the Threshold of the Unknown Future What can ufologists learn from the experience of Soviet ufology? First of all is the hopelessness of the further collection of "ufological folklore." By its very nature this information can be useful only for folklore studies, not for hard science. Official study in itself, even such a large-scale one as that fulfilled in the USSR and Russia between 1977 and 1996, cannot lead to the solution. What ufologists need is a normal scientific methodology and systematic gathering of hard data. Ufology possesses a considerable amount of information about the UFO phenomenon. We know that it is physically real and enigmatic. A thick aura of fantasy and rumor has formed around it, and the phenomenon is very heterogeneous and elusive. But in its core we can see mechanical devices flying in the atmosphere of the Earth whose technical capabilities far surpass those of human-made aircraft. The hypothesis about an extraterrestrial origin of this machinery is verifiable and therefore scientific. One should not forget, however, that having substantiated this hypothesis we will probably find ourselves before new - and more difficult - questions. Such is the path of human cognition. The UFO phenomenon is not only a challenge to science. It is a challenge to humanity. Let us hope that we will be better prepared to cope with the solution of this problem than we were prepared to cope with the problem itself. Vladimir Rubtsov is Director of the independent Research Institute on Anomalous Phenomena (RIAP) in Kharkiv, Ukraine, as well as the Editor of its newsletter RIAP Bulletin (published in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Aliens Abducted His Facts Left Fiction From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:43:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:43:46 -0500 Subject: Aliens Abducted His Facts Left Fiction Source: The Austin-American Statesman - Austin, Texas, USA http://tinyurl.com/8uxzl Sunday, December 11, 2005 Aliens Abducted His Facts, Left Fiction A collection of his tabloid stories makes D'Antoni wonder at his depraved side By John Foyston Newhouse News Service PORTLAND, Ore. =97 Few can claim experience as a serial fabulist, but Portland writer/producer Tom D'Antoni can, thanks to a stint writing sensational =97 and wholly fictitious =97 stories for a national tabloid. "Aliens Force Kids to Spend Perpetual Christmas on Space Station" blares one headline from that mid-1980s period of his work life. D'Antoni =97 whose most recent gig was five years as a producer for Oregon Public Broadcasting =97 wrote his fictions for The Sun, a wacky national tab that shares supermarket racks with the National Enquirer and the Weekly World News. But The Sun apparently does not share even the trace amounts of journalistic ethics found at other supermarket tabloids. When D'Antoni tired of the abysmal money =97 $25 a story, $35 if it had a headline on the cover and $50 if it rated the banner headline =97 he asked if he could work for its better-paying sister paper, The Globe. Well, he could, his editor said . . . but stories in The Globe had to have some truth to them. D'Antoni wasn't going to abdicate his fabricating, so he kept writing stories such as "Rabid Nun Infects Entire Convent," which is also the title of his new book (Villard, $13.95) that collects stories from his career at The Sun. He was in Baltimore at the time =97 he lived there until moving to Oregon in 1997 =97 and needed some freelance income to tide him over between seasonal radio-production gigs. His ex-wife was working at the tabloid and offered to show some of his stuff to the editor, so he sat down and dashed off "Grandma Turns Pet Dog Inside Out Looking for Lost Lottery Ticket." It was his first foray into the lowly paid, write-at-the-kitchen-table world of tabloid journalism. Despite the minimal money, it was easy work for a guy with D'Antoni's imagination, so he churned out more, each a deeper plunge into the uncharted depths of his subconscious. "The Human Termite: He's Eating the Neighborhood!," "Bag Lady's B.O. Kills Five People on Bus" and "Dead Daughter Leaves Message of Love on Dad's VCR." He began to wonder at the volume and perversity of mental effluent that sluiced from his imagination. "It started out as a fun thing," D'Antoni said, "but it turned into a nightmare. It was wrenching to realize I was the kind of warped person capable of coming up with this stuff. I'd get up in the morning and think of the worst possible thing and write that." (Having a hard time picturing the worst possible thing? How about "Man Sells Human Bodies From Chemical Disaster to Starving Ethiopians as Meat for Prepared Meals" or "Cult Uses Human Heads for Bowling Balls.") "If I believed in karma or destiny," he writes in the preface to that last story, "I would blame my imagination for the fact that I ended up driving a cab for two years in Baltimore after a fairly successful television career, or for all the women who dumped me." The "women who dumped me" count might have been higher save for newspaper articles he wrote about his tabloid tenure. For the same reason you might take in Terry Gilliam's wonderfully twisted movie "Brazil" on a first date, D'Antoni encouraged prospective girlfriends to read the pieces he wrote about his tabloid time. "If they laughed, great," he said. "If they ran away screaming, that was OK, too." Just as well to know early on if a gal was going to get all flibbertigibbety about something as innocuous as a mother biting off her tongue to feed her starving baby. When a friend suggested that he had the basis for his first book, D'Antoni set about restoring his stories to their original length, reversing the depredations of The Sun's ruthless copy desk. The publisher Villard hired a designer who gave the book the right look: lurid black-and-white photos and all-caps, sans- serif headlines that bellow from pulpy pages. This is literature for the checkout line, not the ages. At just more than 100 pages, it's a fun read. D'Antoni has his serious side too. He's also promoting the just- released "Robert's Story: Dying With Dignity," a documentary he co-directed with Greg Bond. The film follows Robert Schwartz, an AIDS patient who decided to end his life under Oregon's Death With Dignity Act after being diagnosed with a fatal lung disease. Schwartz lived for two years before taking his life in May 2003 at the age of 52. "It's been difficult, because you wonder which person you are," D'Antoni said. "We spent two years with Robert, starting the day before he got the pills that would kill him =97 and he died wearing our microphone. Every time we've shown the film, there's been a stunned silence when it ends, then sustained applause. "But I'm also promoting the book at the same time, which means I have to go from consoling people to explaining how I came to write something like, 'Woman Goes on High Fiber Diet, Eats Her
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:58:46 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:48:54 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:21:15 -0600 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >After studying CC&D and particularly the art of deception for >the last 10 years, I've learned to be vewy careful about what I >believe, disbelieve or even keep on the back shelves of my mind. >When I hear/read something like this, I automatically ask, "What >is the purpose of this information? What is motivating this >individual to make such claims so boldly in public?" <snip> Well put, Amy. I'm as surprised as anyone at what Hellyer has been saying. But for those who have seemingly been quick to debunk his statements, it is worth noting and remembering that he _is_ a respected politician in this country. When a former Defence Minister, of any country, talks about UFOs being real, we may be well advised to listen, regardless of the outcome (if any) of this. People have been wanting high-ranking politicians to do this very thing for many years, and now...? The conspiracy angle of his statements does make me uncomfortable and question his reasons for doing this, but I'm not ready to discount them based just on that, given his background. Or maybe he really is just stating personal beliefs (or, as some people would say, "has lost it"), but if not, then what....? Does anyone happen to have a transcript of the MSNBC interview? It didn't play properly on my Mac 'puter.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 12 Secrecy News -- 12/12/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:11:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 12:56:30 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 12/12/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 113 December 12, 2005 ** THE DEMISE OF SENSITIVE HOMELAND SECURITY INFO (SHSI) ** LOS ALAMOS TECHNICAL REPORTS ON THE FAS WEB SITE ** WSJ ON DISASTER RESPONSE ** JUDICIAL WATCH ON OPEN GOVERNMENT THE DEMISE OF SENSITIVE HOMELAND SECURITY INFO (SHSI) Three years after Congress directed the President to develop government-wide procedures for protecting sensitive homeland security information (SHSI), no such procedures are in place and the effort to produce them has been all but formally abandoned, Secrecy News has learned. The Homeland Security Act of 2002 required the President to prescribe and implement procedures by which agencies would "identify and safeguard homeland security information that is sensitive but unclassified" (Section 892). In his July 2003 executive order 13311, President Bush assigned the Secretary of Homeland Security responsibility for complying with this requirement. But "as is true with so many other subjects, they have done nothing with it," said one U.S. Government official with subject matter expertise. He spoke on condition of anonymity. A government-wide policy on protecting SHSI "has been periodically discussed, pushed close to some action, and then sent back for further study. There are a dozen hard and fast deadlines that have been missed on this whole subject." "I think it's fair to say it's dead. The concept is not dead but it's highly unlikely anything will come of it." Because Congress failed to define the statutory meaning of "sensitive," critics including the Federation of American Scientists were concerned that the establishment of the "Sensitive Homeland Security Information" (SHSI) category was an invitation to formalize the indiscriminate withholding of information. "I think this is a case where no news is good news from your point of view," said the official, referring to the lack of progress on SHSI. Meanwhile, however, he said that a separate interagency initiative was underway to define and regulate the even broader category of "sensitive but unclassified" information. But "that is far too big a task to come to fruition," the official predicted. Given that agencies were unable to reach consensus on the definition of terrorism-related SHSI, it will be "exponentially more difficult" to come to agreement on the vastly larger and more amorphous domain of "sensitive but unclassified" information, he said. LOS ALAMOS TECHNICAL REPORTS ON THE FAS WEB SITE Thousands of unclassified technical reports that were published on the Los Alamos National Laboratory web site and then removed from public access have now been reposted on the Federation of American Scientists web site. The Los Alamos reports were archived by researchers Carey Sublette and Gregory Walker, who made them available to FAS (SN, 02/19/04). Over the past year we have incrementally added more and more of the collection, which comprises an enormous 8.5 gigabytes of data, to our website. That process is now complete. Many of the documents have enduring if narrow scientific value, judging from the requests we regularly receive for various titles. Others are principally of historical value. Still others hold both scientific and historical interest. For example, the 1947 study entitled "Blast Wave" (LA-2000) includes original scientific papers by Hans Bethe, John von Neuman and Rudolph Peierls -- but also by Klaus Fuchs, who would be convicted in 1950 of spying for the Soviet Union. The 300 page volume was originally for sale to the public for $6.50, according to the inside cover. Now it is available for free on the FAS web site, with thousands of other such documents. See Los Alamos Technical Reports and Publications: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/index.html WSJ ON DISASTER RESPONSE On December 9, Secrecy News published an extraordinary email message from a National Guard official, Maj. Gen. Timothy Lowenberg, who warned against military control of disaster response activities. That email message was discussed and placed in context in a deeply reported front page story in the Wall Street Journal on December 8. See "Local and Federal Authorities Battle to Control Disaster Relief" by Robert Block and Amy Schatz, Wall Street Journal, December 8 (sub. req'd.): http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113401254148017116.html JUDICIAL WATCH ON OPEN GOVERNMENT It is obvious why an opponent of the present Administration would be critical of its secretive ways. And yet such opponents are not the only ones who favor increased transparency and disclosure. Nor do perspectives on openness and secrecy correspond predictably to partisan affiliations. The avowedly conservative Judicial Watch is hosting a panel discussion at the National Press Club December 13 on "The Case for Open Government," with the rather ecumenical participation of the Heritage Foundation, the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, the Federation of American Scientists, and the Society of Professional Journalists. See: http://www.judicialwatch.org/opengov-panel.shtml _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Rendlesham 25 Years On From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:09:08 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:11:20 -0500 Subject: Rendlesham 25 Years On The Forestry Commission will be holding a commemorative event in Rendlesham Forest on Monday December 26, to mark the 25th anniversary of the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident: http://tinyurl.com/8jzze Best wishes,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:38:26 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:13:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Rimmer >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:21:34 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:10:41 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>If you don't know what it means, why do you keep repeating it >>as though it's significant? >Because comments about UFOs from former Prime Ministers are >extremely rare and therefore extraordinarily significant, >whatever interpretation one puts on them.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Rush Limbaugh Chimes In On ETs From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:52:18 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:16:09 -0500 Subject: Rush Limbaugh Chimes In On ETs The heat must be on for Rush Limbaugh to chime in on ETs. Today's show, Dec. 12, Rush uttered how he'd been told by some scientist that the odds of life elsewhere is impossible because of the rare configuration of our own world and it's association with the Moon, Sun, etc. Did Rush ask any of the experts on this List for their data? Nope. Why? Because in the mindset of people like Limbaugh they cannot comprehend the possibility that life is not unique to one planet amongst trillions upon trillions upon trillions of planets throughout the universe. He of course used Christianity as his soap box to drive this point home, not being cognizant of the fact that throughout the scriptures it mentions beings from the 'Heavens'. Maybe it's because our words God and Heaven are derived from the German and not the Hebrew or Aramaic. I expect more 'disclosures' from politicos that will be nothing more than further diversions from the truth of things. Pro or con in the ETH. Ya know when you're getting close to the truth when the opposition starts soap box justification.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:21:49 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:32:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 18:26:21 -1000 >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:51:34 EST >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 06:09:04 -1000 >>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>>>From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:01 EST >>>>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >>But with >>Dean, no one else who was in a position to know has come out to >>say that yes, The Assessment did exist. To this point they have >>universally denied that it did. Someone, somewhere, other than >>Dean, should have provided a hint about it. No one has. >>And, really, I'm not required to offer clear intent for the >>fabrication of such a story. You, on the other hand, are >>required to offer some proof, other than the "whistleblower" >>sounds sincere. I'm confused as to why you will accept these >>implausible stories without any corroboration and accept the >>idea that their records have been altered or erased, when there >>is much better evidence that these people simply are not telling >>the truth. Rather than deal with this you simply suggest they >>are red herrings and forget about it. >There is much more than merely saying whistleblowers such as >Dean sound sincere. It has been proved he was where he claimed >to be. A senior NCO stationed in SHOC who performed a particular >set of tasks that gave him access to highly classified >documents. He had Top Secret clearance due to his earlier six >year service as a commissioend officer, so when stationed at >SHOC in 1963 he was able to get the required Cosmic clearance to >work in SHOC. These are facts that have been investigated and >documents exists to support many aspects of Dean's story. As for >Dean's story being inplausible. You are incorrect. It's very >plausible just unproved at the moment. Please elaborate on this "earlier six year service as a commissioned officer." However, there are aspects of Dean's story that are not confirmed and that are in direct conflict with what he says. For example, he said that he was in the "Intelligence Section" but the documents, supplied by him, suggest his assignment was to the Language Group - and a document he supplied to Good relating to Dean's security clearance is "patently bogus." In other words, here is a document supplied by Dean to prove he was involved with the intelligence section that has been manufactured. <snip> >>>The only thing red in the argument you are making are the red >>>herrings that you use in your attempt to discredit Corso. These >>>alleged embellishments and insertions of himself into UFO >>>stories are distractions from Corso's central claims. He was the >>>head of the Foreign Technology Desk at Army Research and >>>Development and participated in a covert program authorized by >>>Lt General Arther Trudea to seed civilian industries with >>>extraterrestrial technologies. Those are the central claims made >>>by Corso and are supported by Corso's military records >>>documenting his position where he could have played such a role. >>Excuse me, but these are not alleged embellishments. Corso said >>that he was a colonel and he was not. He said he commanded the >>Whites Sands Missile Range when he did not. He said that he was >>a member of MJ-12 when he was not. He made many such claims that >>were untrue. Period. >Excuse me but I have yet to find Corso making any of these >claims concerning being a full Colonel, being a member of MJ-12. >I have done quite a bit of reseach on Corso and listened to a >number of interviews and read some of his personal material. I >have not found any of these claims you say. Can you give clear >references and evidence that he made such claims. I have yet to >find it. If not, then I can only conclude you are promoting red >herrings. As for being in command of White Sands Missile Range, >he received a Commendation for meritorious service as battalian >commander for the 3rd Missile Battalion, 71st Artillery from >1957-59. That relates to the period where he claims to have >served at White Sands. Is your objection that he was a battalion >commander rather than commander of the entire White Sands >Missile Range? Sounds to me like another red herring you are >promoting. On the cover of his book, it says Colonel and not Lieutenant Colonel. When questioned about this, Corso said that he was promoted to Colonel in the reserve on retirement. There is no documentation to support this claim. Rather than just say the publisher made a mistake because publishers don't always understand things military, Corso choose to spin the tale, claiming to be an 06 (Colonel) when he was, in fact an 05 (Lieutenant Colonel). To make it worse, in his proposal, and in correspondence he said that he was a Colonel rather than a Lieutenant Colonel. In the proposal he circulated about his book, he claimed to have been working at the Eisenhower White House and served on the staff of MJ-12. Yes, he commanded a battalion at White Sands, but in an interview conducted on video tape in July 1997, Corso tells the assembled reporters that he commanded the White Sands Missile Range, not that he had a battalion there or that he commanded a unit there but that he commanded the Range. >>There are documents about his involvement with Senator >>Thurmond which suggest that Corso was a loose cannon and given >>to flights of fantasy. These documents exist and can be found. >>Hellyer's claims are just that, claims and do nothing to >>validate Corso. >All this is supposition on your part. Actually, Corso made a big deal about the foreword that Thurmond had written for his unpublished book I Walked With Giants: My Career in Military Intelligence. That introduction turned up in The Day After Roswell and Thurmond demanded that it be removed from the book. Seems to me that this suggests something about integrity. This episode has been well documented here and in other arenas as well. Corso pulled a bait and switch on the foreword, which is not very ethical. And according to a 1965 memo to FBI director J. Edgar Hoover: "Corso is a self-styled intelligence expert who retired from the military approximately three years ago, and he has been working as one of Sen. Thurmond's many assistants. He has been a thorn in our side because of self-initiated rumors, idle gossips and downright lies he has spread to more or less perpetuate his own reputation as an intelligence expert." In a memo dated 11 Feb 1965, it was written, "Corso is well known to the Bureau. He fancies himself as an expect in the intelligence field and has a history of wholesale accusations against many people and many agencies of the Federal Government of plotting to subvert the Nation. He has caused many agencies, including the FBI, to expend much manpower, money and effort to disprove some of his injudicious accusations." Pretty damning stuff - oh, yes, it comes from the FBI so we can reject that out of hand because everyone knows what the FBI really is. The FBI began the campaign to discredit Corso more than forty years ago just in case he let his Roswell information slip. Of course, for an indication of Corso's character, we can always look at the lawsuit filed against him which caused the cancellation of contracts for other books. But then, it does suggest a history of spinning tales. Or to be blunt about it - lying. >>>Since you support the existence of a Cosmic Watergate, it's only >>>logical to assume that the military would covertly implement >>>such a program in order to upgrade the technological base of the >>>civilian sector. I assume you and Stan would agree that would be >>>both feasible and logical given the technological superiority of >>>visiting ETs and the secrecy that was adopted as a national >>>security policy. What better branch of the military than the >>>Foreign Technology Desk at Army R & D to play such a role since >>>they already had an extensive network of technology development >>>programs with various corporations and could simply say that the >>>ET technology was 'foreign technology'? It's only logical to >>>assume that such a covert program existed, and that someone like >>>Lt General Arther Trudea as head of Army R & D would have played >>>a key role. Since Corso served for some time as Trudeau's >>>military aide, then it is logical to assume that he was given >>>that covert assignment by Trudeau when he was assigned to the >>>FTD. >>>I hope that reseachers finally focus on Corso's central claims >>>rather than the red herrings you offer to diminish the >>>importance of his testimony. >>I've focused on Corso's claims and find them without merit. If >>we could verify something of importance, that would be one >>thing, but to date, that hasn't happened. >Wow, I'm amazed at your twisting of the data. You've focused on >a number of minor inconsistence (red herrings in my view) and >conclude that he embellished his testimomy. Thus all his claims >are dismissed. You say if we could verify one thing of >importance that would be the thing. Try this, Lt Col Philip >Corso was the head of the Foreign Technologyy Desk of Army >Research and Development. He would closely with the heard of >Army Research and Development, Lt Gen Arther Truduae. These are >facts that directly bear on the core of Corso's testimony. Yes, but he said he was a colonel, when he was not, claimed to have led the Foreign Technology Desk for two years when it was only for 90 days. He pulled the bait and switch on Thurmond that caused Simon and Schuster to pulled the foreword from the book. >>And the same can be said about Cliff Stone, whose embellishments >>are well know, to Bob Lazar whose record as it has been found >>suggests something other than a scholar and research scientist, >>to Bob Dean who struck me as a very nice man but whose tale has >>many holes in it, and Philip Corso who might not have known the >>truth if it bit him on the butt. >>I have also noticed that you cease communication when there have >>been questions asked that you don't want answered. Stone has >>offered three different versions of his involvement in the >>Kecksburg case, but you haven't told me which is true. He offers >>nothing that wasn't already known, other than his story of 57 >>alien varieties, and he continues to dig his hole deeper. >I have responded to all these criticisms elsewhere. I fail to >see how repeating myself on the evidence offered by Stone, >Lazar, etc., helps in moving forward in this dialogue. >Presently, I am trying to get funds so I can fly over to New >Mexico to meet Stone and see the documentation he has on hand. >So far, I have been unable to get the documentation from Sgt >Stone I require to continue the earlier discussion I had with >you and Brad Sparks over Stone's credibility and claims. So I >will eventually get back to you on that when I have something to >report. Well, before you accept any documents, make sure that they are authentic and that they can be verified. I mean, we just saw a network anchor lose his job (though everyone says he was going to retire anyway) when he endorsed as real, copies of documents that he said were real. He failed to produce the original documents and anyone with a computer and copy machine can make really good forgeries these days. >>I just wonder when you'll understand that the questions are >>legitimate and not unreasonable. All I ask for is some evidence >>of the veracity of the tales and not excuses on why that very >>evidence can't be provided. >When it comes to providing evidence of claims made by >whistleblowers, I have repeatedly said we need to go beyond a >myopic focus on 'hard evidence' and use 'soft evidence' such as >consistency of claims, sincerity, intent, etc., to fully assess >whistleblower credibility. Hard evidence is easily removed, >tampered with, or destroyed as many credible whistleblowers >confirm. Given the existence of Cosmic Watergate, something we >agree upon, I think the real debate is one of the parameters of >Cosmic Watergate. Is it just a conspiracy of silence and >strategic deception as you and Stan Friedman suggest; or is it a >covert effort to eliminate and alter documentation, and/or >intimidate/eliminate witnesses. I.e., is Cosmic Watergate >maintained by a 'hard' or 'soft cover up'? If we reach agreement >on that, we might make progress on the issue of assessing >whistleblower testimonies. "Extraordinary claims require an >extraordinary investigative process." But you suggest elsewhere that we look a the history of the whistleblower to learn if he or she has a habit of telling tall tales. In many of the cases, there is that sort of soft evidence, which you have ignored. Both Stone and Corso have documented histories of telling tales, so this would be the sort of soft evidence that argues against their veracity. And Dean apparently offered a document that was bogus to support his claim of having been part of an intelligence unit. And you claim repeatedly that some nefarious unit of the government is out there removing all evidence that any of these whistleblowers are who they say, yet the best evidence is that they have altered their records and lied about their
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:51:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:36:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:37:31 EST >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>Leslie Kean, an investigative reporter backed by the Sci Fi >>Channel, and a group connected to the cable TV channel sued the >>NASA two years ago under the Freedom of Information Act. >>Kean wants files on what happened Dec. 9, 1965, in the >>unincorporated hamlet of Kecksburg, about 30 miles southeast of >>Pittsburgh. Witnesses described a "fireball" in the evening sky, >>and a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 to 15 feet high and >>8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently in the woods, >>according to media accounts at the time. >Speaking of "bad faith" let's see some "good faith" here and >show us the purported 1965-6 "media accounts at the time" that >allegedly describe a "a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 >to 15 feet high and 8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently >in the woods." Or is this "metallic acorn" an invention made up >_decades_ later to try to horn in on the Roswell publicity >bandwagon? I agree, this acorn stuff is not in any media accounts for the period I have searched through. >Also in "good faith" show us _all_ the "fireball" reports that >came in throughout the Midwest and Northeast on the same date >and almost exact same time.... You can't use alleged 1/2- >hour time discrepancies due to casual reporting to disprove a >meteor. Of interest in the _real_ media reports at the time is the odd call by Major Quintanilla to have the Air Force at Pittsburg go to that particular spot as opposed to all the other possible spots reporting fires and fallen debris. Also, is it peculiar for the Air Force to be reported tramping through lots of woods with Geiger Counters to look for a UFO? Apparently the State Troopers joined in. Nothing was reported found there, although a number of other folk reported finding pieces elsewhere.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:13:13 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 07:52:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:16:37 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:37:31 EST >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: ufoupdates.nul >>>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>>Date: 12/9/2005 1:52:41 PM Pacific Standard Time >>>Subj: UFO UpDate: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>Source: The Times-Leader - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, USA >>http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/local/13360634.htm >>>Thu, Dec. 08, 2005 >>>Sci Fi Channel-Backed Researcher Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>Joe Mandak >>>Associated Press >>>PITTSBURGH - Researchers and witnesses who believe a UFO landed >>>in the woods of western Pennsylvania 40 years ago are marking >>>another anniversary on Friday: two years since a lawsuit was >>>filed to get NASA to release records of what happened. >>>A National Aeronautics and Space Administration spokesman says >>>there's no cover-up: the "UFO" was a Russian satellite but >>>government records documenting it have been lost. >>What was NASA doing with a Russian satellite?? That would have >>been a foreign intelligence material not within NASA's >>jurisdiction but within the AF's at Foreign Technology Division >>and its Project MOON DUST, whose jurisdiction was widely known >>throughout the US Government and certainly NASA knew that. >This sounds like NASA aping James Oberg's usual story that this >was a faulty Russian Cosmos 96 Venus probe. The problem here is >that U.S. Space Command reported the Cosmos probe re-entering >Earth's atmosphere over 13 hours before. So Oberg changed the >story to maybe a booster re-entered then but the probe itself >somehow remained in orbit and came down later in Kecksburg. >Leslie Kean contacted Nicholas Johnson, NASA's chief scientist >for orbital debris at the NASA Johnson Space Center. Johnson >reconstructed the trajectory of Cosmos 96 and concluded that it >was literally impossible for any part of Cosmos 96 to have come >down in Kecksburg at the time. Orbital mechanics absolutely >forbade it. >(Since Oberg brags about being an orbital mechanics expert, how >could he have possibly gotten this so wrong, unless he never did >the analysis or totally screwed it up or simply lied about it?) >Johnson also pointed out that no other man-made object from any >country came down that day. >See Leslie Kean's recent IUR article on this: >http://www.freedomofinfo.org/foi/kecksburg2.pdf >So much for NASA's "Russian satellite." Even if it were some >Russian object (yet another story is an errant Russian test >ICBM), how could the government possibly have "lost" all >documentation on it? >>Also in "good faith" show us _all_ the "fireball" reports that >>came in throughout the Midwest and Northeast on the same date >>and almost exact same time. And while you're at it _prove_ that >>all clock times reported were accurate and precise to within 1 >>minute by every single person when in reality most people are >>casual about clock times and these can be to within 1/2 hour or >>even 1 hour (a good tipoff is the use of round numbers for times >>like "5:30" or "6 o'clock," etc.). You can't use alleged 1/2- >>hour time discrepancies due to casual reporting to disprove a >>meteor. >Where did the article say anything about the timing? But just >for the sake of argument, even an object moving at supersonic >speeds but much slower than a meteor could land in Kecksberg >only minutes after being seen directly over Detroit at 4:44 p.m. >(time precisely fixed by local seismographic records of >explosions there). E.g., suppose the object _averaged_ only 3000 >mph as it flew over northern Ohio into western Pennsylvania >(triggering many reports of sonic booms reported to the state >police) and landed at Kecksberg, an air distance of about 250 >miles from Detroit. That would have taken only 5 minutes, not 30 >minutes, and yet no meteor. Add to that the fact that NASA is >now apparently claiming it wasn't a meteor but a "Russian >satellite." Since when has NASA ever got itself involved in investigating UFOs? I ask because, in late 1965, Blue Book was still going with Quantanilla in charge. I assume therefore that the USAF has this case on their records. Why would NASA get in on something that was officially still under the Air Force remit? What is the AF conclusion on it? According to the list of 'unidentifieds' I have, it is not shown as an 'unknown'. So what did Blue Book explain it as? Are NASA known to have got involved with UFOs since then? If so, which cases have they investigated (from an official angle)?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:40:03 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:27:59 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:37:32 -0500 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 04:53:53 -0500 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>Exactly what does it mean that every word of Corso's book is >>true? Does it mean that: >>1) Corso's version of the functioning of the M-1 is true? >>2) Corso fought Romel in North Africa? >>3) That there was a massive radar defense system in the US in >>1947? This one from an Air Defense Branch officer! :) >>4) For some reason a convoy going to Wright Field, Ohio would >>pass through Fort Riley, Kansas. Oh, yeah, don't forget the >>location of 8th AF HQ in Corso's book. >>5) That Corso confronted in Washington, DC a CIA official who >>was not then present in Washington in a building which had >>not been built yet. >>6) That Corso had a special relationship with the FBI >>Director J. Edgar Hoover >>etc., etc., etc.? >For one of those et ceteras - if Corso is telling the truth, >then it was he and he alone who forced the JFK administration to >confront the presence of Soviet missiles in Cuba. Forget that >there's no support for that from historians or in historical >documents, not even the verbatim transcript of meetings in the >White House that was published many years after the event. >Kennedy and his people managed to figure out that there were >missiles in Cuba all by themselves - that's what the historical >record shows. Hi Greg, Corso only says that he took his information to Paul Scott and it was Scott's article that brought the issue into public consciousness and forced JFK to act. Corso never claimed that JFK's intelligence was faulty, only that he wouldn't act on it and force the missles from Cuba. He had to once it became public. >Oops. Forgot. Corso's role of course was covered up. Couldn't >have the man who was going to disclose the Big Alien Secret >amass any credibility. So strike references to him from the >historical record! Alter the White House transcripts! Shoot >Kennedy, so he couldn't tell anyone what Corso did! Scott has agreed with Corso's version of events. His article appeared in the Boston Globe and Washington post. Corso never intended that anyone should find out he was involved. His name would never have been part of a White House meeting transcript. >Greg Sandow >(and a many thanks to Jan, for cutting through the bullspit) Jan, One of the best - not the only one - routes, in 1947 to Wright Field, Ohio from Roswell passed directly in front of Fort Riley, Kansas. It's also about half way. Why wouldn't they stop for
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Supernatural Ideas Do Not Fit With Science - From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 17:50:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:29:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Supernatural Ideas Do Not Fit With Science - >Con: Supernatural Ideas Do Not Fit With Science >By John Davis >Special to The Clarion-Ledger <snip> >"Supernatural science" doesn't work. "The designer did it" tells >us nothing about, say, bacterial resistance to antibiotics or >the record of life on earth. Invoking the designer will even >prevent asking answerable questions. Nonsense. Most clergy and faithful are _very_ practical in their approach to life and problem solving.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Movie Deal In Cards For Colin Andrews? From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:12:05 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:38:59 -0500 Subject: Movie Deal In Cards For Colin Andrews? Source: Colin Andrew's Website http://www.cropcircleinfo.com/ 28 November 2005 Movie Deal In Cards For King Of Crop Circles He had his life transformed by the crop circle phenomenon and now American film-makers are to turn the story Colin Andrews' life into a feature film. Producers are on the verge of signing a deal with Mr Andrews to tell how he went from a local government engineer to the world's foremost expert on crop circles. Renegade Pictures is expected to finalise contracts next week. The film will be shot in the West and in the US, where Mr Andrews now lives. Producer Wood Dickinson said he had been looking to develop a film on the crop circle phenomenon for years and his research kept leading him to Mr Andrews. Earlier this month, the Western Daily Press revealed how the former civil servant had put his entire research library up for sale for 250,000 (=A3147,000), five years after concluding only 20 per cent of the circles found every summer in the West were genuinely mysterious. But things are now looking up for the man who at one stage advised everyone from Laurence Rockefeller to Margaret Thatcher on the mystery. Wood Dickinson, an independent film-maker from Kansas City, said there was nothing stopping the film being developed. He said: "I've been fascinated with the whole crop circle phenomenon for a long time, and it is a very interesting and important part of our collective recent history. "I've been looking at how to talk about the mystery without doing something silly and, through all my research, the person who stood out was Colin Andrews. His personal story seemed fascinating in itself and a good way of tackling the subject, while at the same time maintaining a human side to what is an incredible thing." The movie will focus on how an unassuming civil servant became obsessed with crop circles after seeing a formation in a field near Andover, Wiltshire, 22 years ago. Mr Andrews gave up his job, devoted his life to the mystery, wrote the first books and became the world's leading expert. But that came at a personal cost and transformed his life. Mr Andrews split from his wife and moved to the US, and now lives in a small Connecticut town. "The film will bring his personal tale to the fore and show how the crop circle phenomenon transformed this one man's life entirely. In the film, people will relate to Colin's story. It will be a human take on a mystery that remains unsolved, " added Mr Dickinson. Mr Andrews has long subscribed to a view that genuine crop circles are connected to Earth energies and Mother Earth trying to send a message of warning to mankind. Yesterday, he said he was looking forward to the film, although it would open up his roller-coaster life to millions of cinema- goers.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Cosmos 96 And The Kecksburg 'Acorn' From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:51:34 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:43:02 -0500 Subject: Cosmos 96 And The Kecksburg 'Acorn' To my knowledge, the promoters of the theory that the Kecksburg object was the acorn-shaped object described by witnesses have never shown any pictures of that spacecraft for comparison. Here's a photo of what is said to be a similar probe of the 3V/3MV series. Cosmos 96 was a series 3MV-4 spacecraft. http://astronautix.com/craft/vena3mv4.htm The closest thing to an acorn-shape on this spacecraft is the stubby cylinder surmounted by a cone at the very top (my guess is that this is the entry vehicle that was to land on the surface of the planet). It's really a stretch to say it resembles an acorn. It looks more like a bullet shape or the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: WVU Scientists Deserve Credit - Fleming From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:29:14 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:45:48 -0500 Subject: Re: WVU Scientists Deserve Credit - Fleming >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:45:35 -0500 >Subject: WVU Scientists Deserve Credit >Source: The Intelligencer - Wheeling, West Virginia, USA >http://www.news-register.net/edit/story/1212202005_edt01.asp >December 12, 2005 >WVU Scientists Deserve Credit >The Intelligencer <snip> >But an "investigative reporter" for the Sci Fi Channel and a >group of people connected to the channel have sued the National >Aeronautics and Space Administration, demanding more information >on the "UFO." NASA, unfortunately, says most records of the >government investigation have been lost. Leslie Kean is a reporter without the quote marks. She used to work for the Boston Globe, which is a bit more signficant a publication than the Wheeling, West Virgina Intelligencer. I never heard of the town before, let alone the paper.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:30:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:49:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:37:31 EST >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: ufoupdates.nul >>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>Date: 12/9/2005 1:52:41 PM Pacific Standard Time >>Subj: UFO UpDate: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>Source: The Times-Leader - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, USA >>http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/local/13360634.htm <snip> >>Leslie Kean, an investigative reporter backed by the Sci Fi >>Channel, and a group connected to the cable TV channel sued the >>NASA two years ago under the Freedom of Information Act. >>Kean wants files on what happened Dec. 9, 1965, in the >>unincorporated hamlet of Kecksburg, about 30 miles southeast of >>Pittsburgh. Witnesses described a "fireball" in the evening sky, >>and a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 to 15 feet high and >>8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently in the woods, >>according to media accounts at the time. ><snip> >>"NASA has been stonewalling for too long, and in the process has >>given us a great record to show that it's recalcitrant and >>acting in bad faith," Helfrich said. "What is NASA trying to >>hide?" ... >Speaking of "bad faith" let's see some "good faith" here and >show us the purported 1965-6 "media accounts at the time" that >allegedly describe a "a metallic, acorn-shaped object about 12 >to 15 feet high and 8 to 12 feet in diameter that landed gently >in the woods." Or is this "metallic acorn" an invention made up >_decades_ later to try to horn in on the Roswell publicity >bandwagon? According to the article below, photos of the Kecksburg UFO were taken by a radio news reporter at the time which were shown to at least one person before he was killed. His death reminded me of Dr. John Mack, Dr. Nick Spanos and others who knew a lot about UFOs and who met similar "accidental" fates. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_161683.html <snip> Viewers learn of the late John Murphy's efforts to ascertain the truth. Murphy, a news reporter for WHJB radio in Greensburg, snapped photos and interviewed many eyewitnesses that evening. Mable Mazza, the station's office manager at the time, remembers seeing one of the photos, depicting a "cone-like thing" surrounded by a lot of trees. However, says Mazza, Murphy's enthusiasm for the case evaporated after he received several "unexpected visitors" at the station. Soon after, Murphy was killed in a hit-and-run accident in the state of California. The driver was never found. And the news reporter's notebooks, tapes and photos mysteriously disappeared not long after. Coincidence? "If someone did away with John, it was because he saw and knew too much," says Bonnie Millslagle, his former wife. <snip> >Also in "good faith" show us _all_ the "fireball" reports that >came in throughout the Midwest and Northeast on the same date >and almost exact same time. And while you're at it _prove_ that >all clock times reported were accurate and precise to within 1 >minute by every single person when in reality most people are >casual about clock times and these can be to within 1/2 hour or >even 1 hour (a good tipoff is the use of round numbers for times >like "5:30" or "6 o'clock," etc.). You can't use alleged 1/2- >hour time discrepancies due to casual reporting to disprove a >meteor. This "fireball" was not only seen but was heard too. The sonic booms created by it were picked up by several seismometers. As with other such noisey fireballs, these seismic records could provide us with the accurate times you are looking for and also allow us to calculate the UFO's changing speed and to determine its actual trajectory through the sky before it landed in Kecksburg. I was among the 200 to 300 people that were present at the Kecksburg fire hall gathering on December 10. So was Budd Hopkins. Although he was not among the scheduled speakers, he did sit next to and frequently speak with Leslie Kean. I took many pictures that day, including a very short orange jet contrail in the twilight sky from the Kecksburg fire hall
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Experiments With Mice Mazes & Men From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:08:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:08:06 -0500 Subject: Experiments With Mice Mazes & Men Source: The San Francisco Chronicle - California, USA http://tinyurl.com/8gnyt Sunday, December 11, 2005 Dark history of mind control Profiles show culture of behaviorists Reviewed by Michael O'Donnell World As Laboratory Experiments With Mice, Mazes And Men By Rebecca Lemov Hill And Wang; 304 Pages; $30 In perhaps the most famous psychological experiment of modern times, Stanley Milgram proved that most of us are no better than Nazis. In 1961 the Yale psychologist divided pairs of paid volunteers into test-takers and shock therapists; each wrong answer from the former earned an electric shock by the latter, who could hear but could not see his partner in an adjoining room. The test-takers were never actually shocked, but were directed to scream and plead as the shock therapists - ordered to proceed by an authoritative psychologist - thought they were administering near-lethal zaps. Two-thirds of participants dumbly obeyed the white coat even though they thought they were practically killing an innocent stranger. The American Psychological Association, appalled at the experiment's effects on participants, stripped Milgram of his membership, but he nonetheless earned a place in history: He later analyzed the My Lai massacre and his name has surfaced repeatedly in discussions of torture at Abu Ghraib. The Milgram experiments were the pinnacle of decades of research into social control and human engineering driven by the "behaviorist" school of psychology. Born at the University of Chicago in the first years of the 20th century, behaviorism posited that human actions are unaffected by free will or consciousness, and instead may be empirically predicted, recorded and shaped by external stimuli. Just as a plant turns toward the sun, a frustrated human lashes out aggressively; the plant can be conditioned by its orientation to light, as can the human by modifying his level of frustration. Or by giving stern orders, as Milgram dismayingly proved. Rebecca Lemov, a lecturer at the University of Washington, has produced a lively and well-researched history of the human engineering field and its broad intellectual and social legacy. Lemov nicely structures the book around key social scientists in the behaviorist movement, most of them psychologists at Yale's Institute of Human Relations from the 1920s to the 1960s. From John B. Watson's early (and breathtakingly durable) thesis that animal behavior is an infallible predictor of human behavior came decades of laboratory studies of white rats marching around strung out on drugs and shocked into doing this or that. Then came George Murdoch's effort to amass all knowledge about humankind in great storerooms of boxes and card catalogs, which, when brought to the attention of the Defense Department, earned the fusty professor a shiny commission in the Navy in addition to grants from Uncle Sam. ("[W]e were repeatedly subject to Jap attack and ambush. ...I really had the time of my life.") With the birth of the Cold War, a more nefarious collaboration began between government and social scientists, as the CIA funded universities' mind control and brainwashing experiments that left unsuspecting volunteers psychologically impaired. One example was the "psychic driving" of McGill University's Ewan Cameron, who played subjects an endless loop of one of their own statements from therapy, such as "You killed your mother," while keeping them packed with mind-altering drugs and locked in sensory depravation chambers. They emerged broken, ready to "be built up again." This is real "Manchurian Candidate" stuff, and it is easy to see how it could have a dramatic impact on human behavior. An anthropologist, Lemov is less interested in the technical features of this research than in the culture of those who would practice laboratory totalitarianism in the name of political anti-totalitarianism. Lifelong sufferer of manic-depressive disorder O. Hobart Mowrer late in life found Jesus, dropped behaviorism and pioneered the snuggly group therapy of Alcoholics Anonymous. In contrast, John Dollard, an anthropologist of Southern racial tensions, eventually rejected the subtleties of the human experience and joined the rigid behaviorists at Yale. More chillingly, we learn that McGill's Cameron, a dark wizard if ever there was one, actually helped prosecute Nazi doctors at the Nuremberg tribunals. Lemov's central thesis might have been spun out a little further. She argues that the world at large eventually replaced the laboratory as all these experiments spawned real human engineering in the form of modern annoyances like advertising and focus groups. But rather than trace the connection in detail, she leaves off in the 1960s, before the research really began to bear commercial fruit. And not for want of material: John Watson, whom she profiles, left academia in 1920 to join the J. Walter Thompson advertising agency. Scientists must of course be free to research broadly, but if the decades of human and animal suffering that Lemov recounts have served primarily to allow modern money grubbers to play mind control games with consumers, much has been wasted. The author is also too eager to see in mid-century social science a vast plot to control human behavior. Plenty of mid- century anthropologists and psychologists simply wished to explore and understand their world and had no designs to bend others to their will. As the book demonstrates, a few well- positioned scientists with that aim were enough to do plenty of harm.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Calculating Odds Of Life In Galaxy From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:18:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:18:46 -0500 Subject: Calculating Odds Of Life In Galaxy Source: The National Post - Toronto, Canada http://tinyurl.com/9v5s4 Monday, December 12, 2005 Calculating Odds Of Life In Galaxy Stephen Juan National Post What is the probability of human life existing on other planets? (Asked by Warren Reed, age 12, of Toronto) Who knows? We can only guess. In 1961, U.S. astronomer Frank Drake proposed an equation for calculating the number of technologically advanced civilizations existing in our galaxy. The Drake equation can be expressed as: N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L. - "N" is the number of civilizations in the galaxy that have developed to the point of being able to communicate. - "R" is the rate at which suitable stars are formed with the capability of forming planets such as ours. - "fp" is the proportion of stars with planets. - "ne" is the number of planets around any star with a temperature range that would be habitable by humans. - "fl" is the proportion of planets on which life has evolved. - "fi" is the proportion of planets that has reached the stage of human intelligence. - "fc" is the proportion of planets that have developed a communications technology similar to our own. - "L" is the length of time for which an intelligent civilization can hope to survive either accidental destruction by outside forces or self-destruction by misuse of its own technology. Taking Mr. Drake's equation, a group of scientists called the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) estimate the rate of star formation at about 20 per year. SETI suggest that half of all stars will form planetary systems, that the number of planets within one system that could support life is one, and that life will appear and evolve on one in five such planets. Mindful that dolphins and whales are intelligent but have never developed technology, SETI also suggests that technology might be expected to appear in half the other worlds that support life. So putting these numbers into Drake's equation: N = 20 x 0.5 x 1 x 0.2 x 0.5 x L. N = L. The number of civilizations in the galaxy is equal to the number of years (L) that an advanced technological civilization can hope to endure. Of course, the only such civilization we have to go on is our own. It has only been technologically advanced for some 50 years or so. Thus, the number of advanced life forms in our galaxy is at least 50. But there are obviously many, many assumptions built into this.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Blather On Klaatu Barada Nikto From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:56:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:56:41 -0500 Subject: Blather On Klaatu Barada Nikto Source: Daev Walsh's Blather.Net http://tinyurl.com/7l6wb October 02, 2005 Klaatu Barada Nikto - The Day the Earth Stood Still Posted by daev Last weekend, the BlatherGHQ TV was accidentally powered-up and tuned on to The Day The Earth Stood Still, a 1951 extraterrestrial contact movie directed by Robert Wise and adapted by Edmund North from Harry Bates' 1940 short story, Farewell to the Master. We relaxed, enjoyed it, and casually prepared to note any motifs which may have influenced today's interest in UFOs, alien abduction, and extraterrestrial life. klaatu & gort All the typical material was there - the classic saucer shape, the silver space suits, terror on the streets, silvery robots carrying panicking female leads into spaceships, and the usual 'save the planet' kinda jazz. All the usual style of US movies from the era of the Cold and Korean Wars was represented in the film, and the accompanying baggage communist paranoia, but is in this case somewhat anti-military, while gently ridiculing the 'reds under the beds' mindset. However, it was uncanny how closely the film stuck to the story of the life and death (and afterlife) of one J.H. Christ. A tall and severe-looking, yet handsome human gentleman, Klaatu (Michael Rennie) comes from the heavens, offering a 'choice' between peace and salvation, or the Earth's destruction - at the hands of greater (and apparently wiser) powers elsewhere in the Universe. Klaatu is immediately demonised by the authorities, and shot while reaching for a gift to give to the US President. klaatu in spacesuitHe escapes from a military hospital, and begins to lead a secretive life, rooming with a Washington family as a rather quiet bachelor whilst using the name Carpenter (Representative of the Holy Family?). He conducts a rather civilised existence, befriending the widowed daughter of the family, Helen (Patricia Neal) - who has influential connections - and her young son Bobby (Billy Gray), while the world outside goes berserk searching for the 'monster'. Bobby leads Klaatu to Professor Barnhardt (Sam Jaffe), "the smartest man on earth". To cut a long story short, Klaatu demonstrates his power by neutralising out all electrical power world-wide, including cars and telephones. But no one is harmed - aircraft in flight and hospitals are unaffected. This is a display of Klaatu's (or rather his superiors' miraculous power. Barnhardt, suitably convinced, gathers together disciples - scientists from around the world - but before Klaatu arrives at his meeting with them, he is betrayed by Helen's rather irritating boyfriend, and gunned down in the street by the army (Klaatu throws his arms in the air as he is pierced by the bullet...crucifixion?) gort His dead body is moved across the street to a police station, where it locked in a cell, and protected by an armed guard (the tomb of Christ perhaps?) Helen has already been told to use the words "Klaatu Barada Nikto" to prevent Gort - Klaatu's tall silvery robot sidekick, a faultless policeman of the universe (holy spirit, angelic being) - from destroying everything. She manages to convey this message before Gort gets a chance to zap her, and 'he' carries her into the saucer, presumably for her own safety. Gort then blasts a hole in the side of the police station, and removes Klaatu (disappearance of the body from the tomb, luminescent figure responsible). Back at the saucer, Klaatu is temporarily resurrected by Gort, and addresses his disciples - scientists and leaders of the world - explaining to them what they must do to avert impending doom. He then ascends into the heavens, leaving them to complete his work on earth. Sound familiar? It was only when only on reading Mark Pilkington's Screen Memories that I found out that scriptwriter Edmund North had admitted to somehow hiding the Christian aspect of the story from the director and producer: "It was my private little joke. Saucer landing in washington I never discussed this angle with Blaustein (producer) or Wise because I didn't want it expressed. I hoped the Christ comparison would be subliminal." (Mark Pilkington quotes from Seeing is Believing by Peter Biskind). Mark P rounds off his treatise by pointing out that '...human looking aliens who live amongst us on Earth, and the aliens' fears for the Earth's destruction have become staple elements in the abduction scenario of the 1990's. It is possible that these may have their roots in the science fiction of the fifties, but such themes have been central to myth, religion and visionary thought since time immemorial, their recurrence in The Day the Earth Stood Still and other films being intrinsically connected to the collective fears of the time. Then it was the threat of nuclear destruction that hovered over the West; today it is mankind's destruction of the environment, not just a threat but a reality, that brings the other down to Earth.' As The Day the Earth Stood Still is one the first movies to propose UFOs as spaceships, it is rather ironic that our modern UFO culture should be fueled by a 'private little joke' involving the New Testament. meeting the World's scientists and leaders one last time ADDENDUM: While asking about on the Fortean email list for information on writings about The Day The Earth Stood Still, list members came forth with a plethora of subtle or synchronistic connections. . Apparently ex-Beatle Ringo Starr released an album called Goodnight Vienna, the sleeve of which features a superimposition of his face and Klaatu's, with Gort in the background. This lead to speculation that a band called Klaatu were really the Beatles, a situation not helped by the lack of information about the band on their record sleeves, and the fact that they actually sounded a bit like the Beatles. The band remained anonymous, and Capitol Records (also the Beatles' US label) released their album without meeting the band. Klaatu originally recorded a song called Calling Occupants, which was later covered by The Carpenters (back to Jesus of Bleedin' Nazareth again!) The ever amazing Snopes has pointed out that: 1) When Klaatu is asked where he is from, he says, "Venus and Mars." This, of course, is also the title of a 1974 McCartney/Wings album. 2) At the end of a concert in Boston during his 1976 tour, McCartney told the crowd: "See you when the earth stands still..." 3) The inside of George Harrison's "33 & 1/3" album includes a drawing quite similar to the cover of the Klaatu album. 4) One of Klaatu's songs ("Sub Rosa Subway") ends with a backwards tape loop. When this section is played backwards, the words "It's us, it's us, it's us..." repeat. In the movie Army of Darkness (Evil Dead III), '"Klaatu Barada Nikto" is the shibboleth needed to negate the demonic forces of evil, or something'. Lead actor Bruce Campbell (Ash) can't quite remember it; "Klaatu Barada... necktie!" In Return of the Jedi, we're told, three of Jabba's entourage were Klaatu, Barada and Nikto. [Note, 7th January, 2000: Also recently noticed - when satellite problems are becoming noticeable in the movie Independence Day, scenes from The Day The Earth Stood Still flash across the screen] gort, helen and klaatu emerge from the saucer KUDOS Many thanks to Mark Pilkington, Kelly McGillis, Snopes, the incredibly Reverend Joe McNally (Gentleman Consultant and supplier of the Army of Darkness and Empire Strikes Back stuff), Stephen Dewey, Tim Chapman and the rest of the Fortean mailing list! [Dee Long, of Toronto, was a member of the band Klaatu. After
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Could Aliens Be Hacking Into Your Computer? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:33:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:33:01 -0500 Subject: Could Aliens Be Hacking Into Your Computer? Source: The Vancouver Sun - British Columbia, Canada http://tinyurl.com/cpd7k Monday, December 12, 2005 Could Aliens Be Hacking Into Your Computer? Tom Spears Ottawa Citizen OTTAWA -- Could little green men be hacking into your computer? A scientist at a top U.S. physics lab thinks scanning the skies for signs of life leaves earthling computers wide open to virus attacks from space. Richard Carrigan is careful to note his claim of a security threat to Earth isn't sponsored by his employer, the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Illinois. But he writes in a space journal that SETI, the project that invites people to run their computers non-stop in a search for life on other planets, may be inviting alien viruses to Earth. If astronauts ever go to Mars, we'll quarantine them afterwards in a check for harmful germs, he says. So why aren't we as careful with our computers? The "SETI hacker" hypothesis works like this: Tens of thousands of volunteers leave their computers running to scan through vast amounts of data from SETI. The network is called SETI.nul The signals are radio waves from space, and the SETI supporters hope that amid all the random background (radio waves from stars), there may be a signal from some distant civilization. But Carrigan warns such a signal might carry a virus, which would then spread to Earth computers. "The probability of a contaminated SETI signal is difficult to estimate; but if we never consider it the chance of infection is not zero," he writes. Then there's radio signalling, which has already told a good part of our galaxy that we're here, he argues. "An intelligent system 50 light years away detecting Earth's first radio signals could have broadcast a return signal that would now be reaching Earth," Carrigan writes. "There are about 400 stars within this 50-light-year sphere." He adds that "TV transmitters on Earth can be detected one light year away with contemporary technology." Carrigan submitted his ideas to Nature, a major science journal. It turned down a chance to publish them. A Nature editor explained: "While the subject does cross interdisciplinary lines this is not the main criterion we use for selection. Rather, papers should report deep new physical insights..... We have been unable to identify such aspects in the paper. The general premise of the manuscript even lacks some conceptual novelty, as it has already been explored in the book 3001, the Final Odyssey by Arthur C. Clarke." But physicists and space lovers are weighing in on science blogs with comments on the hacker theory and questions: Will space aliens use Macs or PCs? "We have bigger things to worry about. Those SETI.nul people don't need to worry about aliens. They have to worry about their neighbour who is trying to get into the computer with malicious intent," said Patrick Lyons, manager of instructional innovation at Carleton University in Ottawa. "Aliens sending computer viruses? I suspect they have better things to do," he said. "They could be laughing themselves silly: 'Ha! They still use Microsoft!' " In the meantime, Carrigan suggests scientists are too trusting.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 US Military's Vast Secretive Info War From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:38:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:38:40 -0500 Subject: US Military's Vast Secretive Info War Source: Raiders News Update - Salem, Oregon, USA http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story146.htm December 12, 2005 Military's Information War Is Vast and Often Secretive By Jeff Gerth The media center in Fayetteville, N.C., would be the envy of any global communications company. In state of the art studios, producers prepare the daily mix of music and news for the group's radio stations or spots for friendly television outlets. Writers putting out newspapers and magazines in Baghdad and Kabul converse via teleconferences. Mobile trailers with high-tech gear are parked outside, ready for the next crisis. The center is not part of a news organization, but a military operation, and those writers and producers are soldiers. The 1,200-strong psychological operations unit based at Fort Bragg turns out what its officers call "truthful messages" to support the United States government's objectives, though its commander acknowledges that those stories are one-sided and their American sponsorship is hidden. "We call our stuff information and the enemy's propaganda," said Col. Jack N. Summe, then the commander of the Fourth Psychological Operations Group, during a tour in June. Even in the Pentagon, "some public affairs professionals see us unfavorably," and inaccurately, he said, as "lying, dirty tricksters." The recent disclosures that a Pentagon contractor in Iraq paid newspapers to print "good news" articles written by American soldiers prompted an outcry in Washington, where members of Congress said the practice undermined American credibility and top military and White House officials disavowed any knowledge of it. President Bush was described by Stephen J. Hadley, his national security adviser, as "very troubled" about the matter. The Pentagon is investigating. But the work of the contractor, the Lincoln Group, was not a rogue operation. Hoping to counter anti-American sentiment in the Muslim world, the Bush administration has been conducting an information war that is extensive, costly and often hidden, according to documents and interviews with contractors, government officials and military personnel. The campaign was begun by the White House, which set up a secret panel soon after the Sept. 11 attacks to coordinate information operations by the Pentagon, other government agencies and private contractors. In Iraq and Afghanistan, the focus of most of the activities, the military operates radio stations and newspapers, but does not disclose their American ties. Those outlets produce news material that is at times attributed to the "International Information Center," an untraceable organization. Lincoln says it planted more than 1,000 articles in the Iraqi and Arab press and placed editorials on an Iraqi Web site, Pentagon documents show. For an expanded stealth persuasion effort into neighboring countries, Lincoln presented plans, since rejected, for an underground newspaper, television news shows and an anti-terrorist comedy based on "The Three Stooges." Like the Lincoln Group, Army psychological operations units sometimes pay to deliver their message, offering television stations money to run unattributed segments or contracting with writers of newspaper opinion pieces, military officials said. "We don't want somebody to look at the product and see the U.S. government and tune out," said Col. James Treadwell, who ran psychological operations support at the Special Operations Command in Tampa. The United States Agency for International Development also masks its role at times. AID finances about 30 radio stations in Afghanistan, but keeps that from listeners. The agency has distributed tens of thousands of iPod-like audio devices in Iraq and Afghanistan that play prepackaged civic messages, but it does so through a contractor that promises "there is no U.S. footprint." As the Bush administration tries to build democracies overseas and support a free press, getting out its message is critical. But that is enormously difficult, given widespread hostility in the Muslim world over the war in Iraq, deep suspicion of American ambitions and the influence of antagonistic voices. The American message makers who are wary of identifying their role can cite findings by the Pentagon, pollsters and others underscoring the United States' fundamental problems of credibility abroad. Defenders of influence campaigns argue that they are appropriate. "Psychological operations are an essential part of warfare, more so in the electronic age than ever," said Lt. Col. Charles A. Krohn, a retired Army spokesman and journalism professor. "If you're going to invade a country and eject its government and occupy its territory, you ought to tell people who live there why you've done it. That requires a well-thought- out communications program." But covert information battles may backfire, others warn, or prove ineffective. The news that the American military was buying influence was met mostly with shrugs in Baghdad, where readers tend to be skeptical about the media. An Iraqi daily newspaper, Azzaman, complained in an editorial that the propaganda campaign was an American effort "to humiliate the independent national press." Many Iraqis say that no amount of money spent on trying to mold public opinion is likely to have much impact, given the harsh conditions under the American military occupation. While the United States does not ban the distribution of government propaganda overseas, as it does domestically, the Government Accountability Office said in a recent report that lack of attribution could undermine the credibility of news videos. In finding that video news releases by the Bush administration that appeared on American television were improper, the G.A.O. said that such articles "are no longer purely factual" because "the essential fact of attribution is missing." In an article titled "War of the Words," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld wrote about the importance of disclosure in America's communications in The Wall Street Journal in July. "The American system of openness works," he wrote. The United States must find "new and better ways to communicate America's mission abroad," including "a healthy culture of communication and transparency between government and public." Trying to Make a Case After the Sept. 11 attacks forced many Americans to recognize the nation's precarious standing in the Arab world, the Bush administration decided to act to improve the country's image and promote its values. "We've got to do a better job of making our case," President Bush told reporters after the attacks. Much of the government's information machinery, including the United States Information Agency and some C.I.A. programs, was dismantled after the cold war. In that struggle with the Soviet Union, the information warriors benefited from the perception that the United States was backing victims of tyrannical rule. Many Muslims today view Washington as too close to what they characterize as authoritarian regimes in Saudi Arabia, Egypt and elsewhere. The White House turned to John Rendon, who runs a Washington communications company, to help influence foreign audiences. Before the war in Afghanistan, he helped set up centers in Washington, London and Pakistan so the American government could respond rapidly in the foreign media to Taliban claims. "We were clueless," said Mary Matalin, then the communications aide to Vice President Dick Cheney. Mr. Rendon's business, the Rendon Group, had a history of government work in trouble spots, In the 1990's, the C.I.A. hired him to secretly help the nascent Iraqi National Congress wage a public relations campaign against Saddam Hussein. While advising the White House, Mr. Rendon also signed on with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, under a $27.6 million contract, to conduct focus groups around the world and media analysis of outlets like Al Jazeera, the satellite network based in Qatar. About the same time, the White House recruited Jeffrey B. Jones, a former Army colonel who ran the Fort Bragg psychological operations group, to coordinate the new information war. He led a secret committee, the existence of which has not been previously reported, that dealt with everything from public diplomacy, which includes education, aid and exchange programs, to covert information operations. The group even examined the president's words. Concerned about alienating Muslims overseas, panel members said, they tried unsuccessfully to stop Mr. Bush from ending speeches with the refrain "God bless America." The panel, later named the Counter Terrorism Information Strategy Policy Coordinating Committee, included members from the State Department, the Pentagon and the intelligence agencies. Mr. Rendon advised a subgroup on counterpropaganda issues. Mr. Jones's endeavor stalled within months, though, because of furor over a Pentagon initiative. In February 2002, unnamed officials told The New York Times that a new Pentagon operation called the Office of Strategic Influence planned "to provide news items, possibly even false ones, to foreign news organizations." Though the report was denied and a subsequent Pentagon review found no evidence of plans to use disinformation, Mr. Rumsfeld shut down the office within days. The incident weakened Mr. Jones's effort to develop a sweeping strategy to win over the Muslim world. The White House grew skittish, some agencies dropped out, and panel members soon were distracted by the war in Iraq, said Mr. Jones, who left his post this year. The White House did not respond to a request to discuss the committee's work. What had begun as an ambitious effort to bolster America's image largely devolved into a secret propaganda war to counter the insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Pentagon, which had money to spend and leaders committed to the cause, took the lead. In late 2002 Mr. Rumsfeld told reporters he gave the press a "corpse" by closing the Office of Strategic Influence, but he intended to "keep doing every single thing that needs to be done." The Pentagon increased spending on its psychological and influence operations and for the first time outsourced work to contractors. One beneficiary has been the Rendon Group, which won additional multimillion-dollar Pentagon contracts for media analysis and a media operations center in Baghdad, including "damage control planning." The new Lincoln Group was another winner. Pentagon Contracts It is something of a mystery how Lincoln came to land more than $25 million in Pentagon contracts in a war zone. The two men who ran the small business had no background in public relations or the media, according to associates and a r=E9sum=E9. Before coming to Washington and setting up Lincoln in 2004, Christian Bailey, born in Britain and now 30, had worked briefly in California and New York. Paige Craig, now 31, was a former Marine intelligence officer. When the company was incorporated last year, using the name Iraqex, its stated purpose was to provide support services for business development, trade and investment in Iraq. The company's earliest ventures there included providing security to the military and renovating buildings. Iraqex also started a short-lived online business publication. In mid-2004, the company formed a partnership with the Rendon Group and later won a $5 million Pentagon contract for an advertising and public relations campaign to "accurately inform the Iraqi people of the Coalition's goals and gain their support." Soon, the company changed its name to Lincoln Group. It is not clear how the partnership was formed; Rendon dropped out weeks after the contract was awarded. Within a few months, Lincoln shifted to information operations and psychological operations, two former employees said. The company was awarded three new Pentagon contracts, worth tens of millions of dollars, they added. A Lincoln spokeswoman referred a reporter's inquiry about the contracts to Pentagon officials. The company's work was part of an effort to counter disinformation in the Iraqi press. With nearly $100 million in United States aid, the Iraqi media has sharply expanded since the fall of Mr. Hussein. There are about 200 Iraqi-owned newspapers and 15 to 17 Iraqi-owned television stations. Many, though, are affiliated with political parties, and are fiercely partisan, with fixed pro- or anti-American stances, and some publish rumors, half-truths and outright lies. =46rom quarters at Camp Victory, the American base, the Lincoln Group works to get out the military's message. Lincoln's employees work virtually side by side with soldiers. Army officers supervise Lincoln's work and demand to see details of article placements and costs, said one of the former employees, speaking on condition of anonymity because Lincoln's Pentagon contract prohibits workers from discussing their activities. "Almost nothing we did did not have the command's approval," he said. The employees would take news dispatches, called storyboards, written by the troops, translate them into Arabic and distribute them to newspapers. Lincoln hired former Arab journalists and paid advertising agencies to place the material. Typically, Lincoln paid newspapers from $40 to $2,000 to run the articles as news articles or advertisements, documents provided to The New York Times by a former employee show. More than 1,000 articles appeared in 12 to 15 Iraqi and Arab newspapers, according to Pentagon documents. The publications did not disclose that the articles were generated by the military. A company worker also often visited the Baghdad convention center, where the Iraqi press corps hung out, to recruit journalists who would write and place opinion pieces, paying them $400 to $500 as a monthly stipend, the employees said. Like the dispatches produced at Fort Bragg, those storyboards were one-sided and upbeat. Each had a target audience, "Iraq General" or "Shi'ia," for example; an underlying theme like "Anti-intimidation" or "Success and Legitimacy of the ISF;" and a target newspaper. Articles written by the soldiers at Camp Victory often assumed the voice of Iraqis. "We, all Iraqis, are the government. It is our country," noted one article. Another said, "The time has come for the ordinary Iraqi, you, me, our neighbors, family and friends to come together." While some were plodding accounts filled with military jargon and bureaucratese, others favored the language of tabloids: "blood-thirsty apostates," "crawled on their bellies like dogs in the mud," "dim-witted fanatics," and "terror kingpin." A former Lincoln employee said the ploy of making the articles appear to be written by Iraqis by removing any American fingerprints was not very effective. "Many Iraqis know it's from Americans," he said. The military has sought to expand its media influence efforts beyond Iraq to neighboring states, including Saudi Arabia, Syria and Jordan, Pentagon documents say. Lincoln submitted a plan that was subsequently rejected, a Pentagon spokesman said. The company proposed placing editorials in magazines, newspapers and Web sites. In Iraq, the company posted editorials on a Web site, but military commanders stopped the operation for fear that the site's global accessibility might violate the federal ban on distributing propaganda to American audiences, according to Pentagon documents and a former Lincoln employee. In its rejected plan, the company looked to American popular culture for ways to influence new audiences. Lincoln proposed variations of the satirical paper "The Onion," and an underground paper to be called "The Voice," documents show. And it planned comedies modeled after "Cheers" and the Three Stooges, with the trio as bumbling wannabe terrorists. The Afghan Front The Pentagon's media effort in Afghanistan began soon after the ouster of the Taliban. In what had been a barren media environment, 350 magazines and newspapers and 68 television and radio stations now operate. Most are independent; the rest are run by the government. The United States has provided money to support the media, as well as training for journalists and government spokesmen. But much of the American role remains hidden from local readers and audiences. The Pentagon, for example, took over the Taliban's radio station, renamed it Peace radio and began powerful shortwave broadcasts in local dialects, defense officials said. Its programs include music as well as 9 daily news scripts and 16 daily public service messages, according to Col. James Yonts, a United States military spokesman in Afghanistan. Its news accounts, which sometimes are attributed to the International Information Center, often put a positive spin on events or serve government needs. The United States Army publishes a sister paper in Afghanistan, also called Peace. An examination of issues from last spring found no bad news. "We have no requirements to adhere to journalistic principles of objectivity," Colonel Summe, the Army psychological operations specialist, said. "We tell the U.S. side of the story to approved targeted audiences" using truthful information. Neither the radio station nor the paper discloses its ties to the American military. Similarly, AID does not locally disclose that dozens of Afghanistan radio stations get its support, through grants to a London-based nonprofit group, Internews. (AID discloses its support in public documents in Washington, most of which can be found globally on the Internet.) The AID representative in Afghanistan, in an e-mail message relayed by Peggy O'Ban, an agency spokeswoman, explained the nondisclosure: "We want to maintain the perception (if not the reality) that these radio stations are in fact fully independent." Recipients are required to adhere to standards. If a news organization produced "a daily drumbeat of criticism of the American military, it would become an issue," said James Kunder, an AID assistant administrator. He added that in combat zones, the issue of disclosure was a balancing act between security and assuring credibility. The American role is also not revealed by another recipient of AID grants, Voice for Humanity, a nonprofit organization in Lexington, Ky. It supplied tens of thousands of audio devices in Iraq and Afghanistan with messages intended to encourage people to vote. Rick Ifland, the group's director, said the messages were part of the "positive developments in democracy, freedom and human rights in the Middle East." It is not clear how effective the messages were or what recipients did with the iPod-like devices, pink for women and silver for men, which could not be altered to play music or other recordings. To show off the new media in Afghanistan, AID officials invited Ms. Matalin, the former Cheney aide and conservative commentator, and the talk show host Rush Limbaugh to visit in February. Mr. Limbaugh told his listeners that students at a journalism school asked him "some of the best questions about journalism and about America that I've ever been asked." One of the first queries, Mr. Limbaugh said, was "How do you balance justice and truth and objectivity?" His reply: report the truth, don't hide any opinions or "interest in the outcome of events." Tell "people who you are," he said, and "they'll respect your credibility." Carlotta Gall and Ruhullah Khapalwak contributed reporting from
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:12:12 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:43:20 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - >From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:58:46 -0800 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:21:15 -0600 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>After studying CC&D and particularly the art of deception for >>the last 10 years, I've learned to be vewy careful about what I >>believe, disbelieve or even keep on the back shelves of my mind. >>When I hear/read something like this, I automatically ask, "What >>is the purpose of this information? What is motivating this >>individual to make such claims so boldly in public?" ><snip> >Well put, Amy. I'm as surprised as anyone at what Hellyer has been >saying. But for those who have seemingly been quick to debunk >his statements, it is worth noting and remembering that he _is_ a >respected politician in this country. >When a former Defence Minister, of any country, talks about UFOs >being real, we may be well advised to listen, regardless of the >outcome (if any) of this. Yes, Paul, we should most certainly listen. I'm listening but I'm also thinking, analyzing and asking questions. Just because it comes from the mouth of a former Defence Minister doesn't mean it's the truth, a lie or something in between. It means someone wants us to hear specific bits of information and believe that information is somewhat accurate. If you want to keep the truth hidden, you direct the public's attention _away_ from it (art of deception 101). If you tell people the information is secret or "classified", that will only serve to get more attention - use this to your advantage. Keep the public happy with myths, mysteries, FOIA's, alleged "deep throats" and so-called "revelations", i.e. keep the focus on everything BUT the truth, and you can play that hand for...decades. If the public wants UFOs and aliens, give them UFOs, aliens, blacked-out documents, etc. so they won't go looking for any _real_ UFOs, aliens or the truth. Hell, just have anything that looks like a "UFO" make an appearance now and then, keep everyone looking up for 'flying saucers' and people probably wouldn't recognize a real UFO if they saw one. To maintain the myths, provide all kinds of "experts", military and government officials, organizations, books, conferences, radio/TV programs and even UFO forums to keep the public believing anything but the truth or asking questions that might put officials in the hot seat. >People have been wanting high-ranking politicians to do this >very thing for many years, and now...? I'm wondering why Hellyer is going public with his theory now instead of when he was the Defence Minister. Will he be sharing all kinds of "secrets" he learned while in office now that he is free to share all this other information with us? I mean, you'd expect a _Defence Minister_ to be able to keep his mouth shut for national security reasons. So what makes "loose lips" OK now that he is no longer a Defence Minister? Can you imagine Donald Rumsfield, Gen. Pace, Condoleezza Rice or even Pres. Bush going public talking about UFOs and 'alien warfare' when they are no longer in office? Nope, it just doesn't make sense, unless...it's part of a disinformation campaign. >The conspiracy angle of his statements does make me >uncomfortable and question his reasons for doing this, but I'm >not ready to discount them based just on that, given his >background. That's just it - based on his background, maybe he is still working for his government in another role or capacity either wittingly or unwittingly. If you take an oath to defend your country, you just don't go to the media/public claiming another country is preparing for war with aliens once you are out of office! If it's true, why would he risk so much to tell us this? If it's some great secret the US is hiding, why is he still alive? >Or maybe he really is just stating personal beliefs (or, as some >people would say, "has lost it"), but if not, then what....? I don't know how they do things in Canada but here in the States, current or former government officials who "lose it" usually jump out windows from tall buildings or take naps in cars connected to the exhaust. (I'm joking, of course...ha-ha) The fact that Hellyer has been allowed to continue sharing his theories with the world makes me think someone _wants_ him to do so either to make a fool of himself, spread disinformation or perhaps sound the alarm. I seriously doubt the Canadian or US governments are just giggling behind his back or ignoring him. What is wrong with this picture?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:58:23 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:44:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Hebert >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:09:08 -0000 >Subject: Rendlesham 25 Years On >The Forestry Commission will be holding a commemorative event in >Rendlesham Forest on Monday December 26, to mark the 25th >anniversary of the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident: >http://tinyurl.com/8jzze At the Forestry Commission's web site, I noticed the description of the event: "Description: In 1980, an un-identified object, visited Rendlesham Forest. Come and see the site and hear the tale." That's a rather direct statement for a government agency to make. Note how they didn't say an "alleged" un-identified object or a possible misidentification of a lighthouse light. Does
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:36:50 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:47:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Ledger >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:38:26 +0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:21:34 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:10:41 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>If you don't know what it means, why do you keep repeating it >>>as though it's significant? >>Because comments about UFOs from former Prime Ministers are >>extremely rare and therefore extraordinarily significant, >>whatever interpretation one puts on them. >So what exactly is it's significance, if we don't know what it >means? It seems to have, significantly, ruffled your feathers, John.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:09:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:48:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files <snip> >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:30:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >This "fireball" was not only seen but was heard too. The sonic >booms created by it were picked up by several seismometers. As >with other such noisey fireballs, these seismic records could >provide us with the accurate times you are looking for and also >allow us to calculate the UFO's changing speed and to determine >its actual trajectory through the sky before it landed in >Kecksburg. <snip> Through part of 1959 I was in the Caribbean, serving aboard the MV Timber Hitch as a merchant seaman. The vessel, through intermediate companies, was under contract to the Air Force. Her hold was filled with timing equipment, and there were also Navy frogmen in her crew. She was tasked with timing the sub-orbital flights of rockets from the Cape. The frogmen were to there retrieve nose cones containing recording equipment. My experience of being almost directly beneath the re-entry of a sub-orbital vehicle is that there is a spray of hot metallic debris around the landing point/target area. There is also the noise of the rocket itself breaking up at it enters the atmosphere - roughly similar to the sound of a colossal piece of cloth being ripped into pieces. If there is anecdotal evidence of objects coming in from stratospheric heights or above, perhaps one should look for
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:37:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:50:44 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:40:03 -0800 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >Corso only says that he took his information to Paul Scott >and it was Scott's article that brought the issue into public >consciousness and forced JFK to act. Corso never claimed that >JFK's intelligence was faulty, only that he wouldn't act on >it and force the missles from Cuba. He had to once it became >public. This is, as far as I know, what history - including the transcripts of White House meetings - doesn't support. Doesn't matter whether Corso's name appears in those discussions or not. I don't think there's anything there that shows public pressure forced JFK to act. But maybe my information is faulty. If someone produces evidence
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:40:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:52:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:30:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >Viewers learn of the late John Murphy's efforts to ascertain the >truth. Murphy, a news reporter for WHJB radio in Greensburg, >snapped photos and interviewed many eyewitnesses that evening. >Mable Mazza, the station's office manager at the time, remembers >seeing one of the photos, depicting a "cone-like thing" >surrounded by a lot of trees. >However, says Mazza, Murphy's enthusiasm for the case evaporated >after he received several "unexpected visitors" at the station. >Soon after, Murphy was killed in a hit-and-run accident in the >state of California. The driver was never found. And the news >reporter's notebooks, tapes and photos mysteriously disappeared >not long after. "Soon after"? As late as Sept 25, 1968 he was working in radio.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:10:36 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:55:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:13:13 -0000 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:16:37 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files <snip> >>See Leslie Kean's recent IUR article on this: >>http://www.freedomofinfo.org/foi/kecksburg2.pdf >Since when has NASA ever got itself involved in investigating >UFOs? >I ask because, in late 1965, Blue Book was still going with >Quantanilla in charge. I assume therefore that the USAF has this >case on their records. Why would NASA get in on something that >was officially still under the Air Force remit? In the case I looked into a little bit, the metal fragments recovered in Elyria, Ohio, near Cleveland, NASA was probably called in because they have a large facility nearby at the Cleveland airport. Also remember that officially, this was considered to be a meteor, not a UFO. >What is the AF conclusion on it? According to the list of >'unidentifieds' I have, it is not shown as an 'unknown'. So what >did Blue Book explain it as? At the time, the AF said all missiles and planes were accounted for, the fireball seen over the Great Lakes' states was a meteor bolide, and nothing was found at Kecksburg. >I recall John Keel once telling an audience in Sheffield, UK >that the Kecksburg object was an H-Bomb that had fallen out of a >plane (!). And another story I heard is that it was an errant Soviet ICBM with an unarmed nuke. President Johnson supposedly suppressed the whole thing to avoid unnerving the population and to avoid an international crisis. I have serious doubts about both stories. In the ICBM case, there would have been no soft landing at Kecksburg, just a giant crater when the warhead impacted. Also there should be no reason to hide the incident now. Lots of nuclear "broken arrow" incidents are already public domain - why not this one? The same goes for the dropped H-bomb - no reason to keep it secret now. Also it would be a helluva coincidence if this happened at exactly the same time as a meteor fireball. NASA is now saying the fireball was no meteor but a "Russian satellite." The problem here is no Russian satellite of record came down anywhere near the area. In fact the only re-entering space debris that day was the Cosmos 96, but orbital calculations rule it out. An errant Soviet ICBM would have the "Russian" part going for it, but would not strictly speaking be a satellite. On the other hand, at least this theory would explain both the fireball and the fact that no Russian device "on the books" came down anywhere near there. This would definitely be "off the books." It would explain the military presence at Kecksburg and the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Kecksburg Confusion From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:12:47 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:57:03 -0500 Subject: Kecksburg Confusion There is one thing I'm unclear about. Is it the thinking of these lists that this might have been a piece of Cosmos 96 that was recovered and then covered up by the US military establishment? If so, perhaps understandable at the time-though a bit ridiculous-why would this continue to be covered up now? The recovery of the forward portion of the Soviet nuclear sub by the Howard Hugh's Glomar Explorer built from CIA funding has been declassified and written about for 20 odd years now. Why go to all of this trouble over a bloody scientific satellite? And never mind the apparent fact that its orbit would not have been anywhere near what would be required for it to crash near Kecksburg, PA. 13 years later Cosmos 954, a large Soviet military reconnaissance satellite powered by a nuclear reactor crashed into the NorthWest Territories in Canada. There was no attempt to cover that up, though it was downplayed, even though it was a spy satellite with a nuclear powerplant. But we are expected to believe that the Soviets would have let another drop into the US in Dec.'65 without warning and risk an accidental ICBM exchange. I don't think so. There's too much of, 'marbles and ball bearings are both the same approximate shape and size so therefore they are interchangeable', in this discussion. There's no reason to think that a fireball and some other more mysterious object were not seen that night. It's called a coincidence. It happens all of the time. What do we know about orbiting nuclear warheads in that time period? Were there any? Mind you, there weren't supposed to be. Both sides were tracking everything in orbit or were trying to, and would be aware of some satellite up there without knowing exactly what it was; nonproliferation pacts and treaty's notwithstanding. Could this be some dirty little secret of one side or the other, or both, that to this day is still not admitted to. More likely a homegrown NATO dirty little secret otherwise, were it Soviet
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Good Morning America's 'Aliens Are Mom' Segment From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:03:22 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:12:19 -0500 Subject: Good Morning America's 'Aliens Are Mom' Segment The ABC-TV Network is not a friend to UFOs. Acronym war I figure. On today's broadcast of Good Morning America they ran a short segment on the 'Aliens Are Mom' theory. No mention of the source, just giggles and fits about the subject and theory. No counterpoint. Now I know why people are tuning in to CBS more. Yet one bright hope is that I often interview people on the subject of UFOs/Aliens and I'm bowled over that the majority about 98% don't trust the mainstream news! They're actually very hostile toward the news sources and more trusting of the web and networks like The History Channel, Learning Channel, and Discovery Channel and last but not least the Sci-Fi Channel. I rarely watch television anymore, so I need to catch up. Fear of retribution from being labeled a mental problem is the only cause for withholding information. Again, people have employers, spouses, in-laws etc. that would use their viewpoints against them to gain the upper hand. Seems like the Taliban aren't our only enemies.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:16:47 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:14:13 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:38:43 -0500 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >Video >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:53:19 -0500 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video ><snip> >>>12/9: The former Defense Minister of Canada, Paul Hellyer, has >>a theory that's out of this world. He tells The Situation's >>Tucker Carlson why he believes the U.S. is preparing for an >>intergalactic war with aliens. >><snip> >>Such a grandiose project would surely be apparent in all sorts >>of fiscal ways, including taxation and the budget, and no black >>project budget items would be capable of concealing it. The >>services of many if not most of the engineers and scientists in >>the country would have to be enlisted. >Threatening the career (and future employability) of an engineer >or scientist buys quite a bit of silence. Threatening to fake a >child sex abuse charge buys even more. Threatening torture or >secret imprisonment works well too. Threatening the family >members probably buys the most. >Eleanor White Amen, Ms. Eleanor White! You've nailed the primary suspect and modus operandi on the head. As for the idea that the government could engage in a massive undertaking of building and maintaining a space station or complex on or in orbit about the Moon, there are two things that could make that operation easy and cost efficient. First, propulsion system. Second, lifting technologies. Say it's true that at some point black ops developed or stole or whatever acquired some form of anti gravity technology. That's 2/3 of the battle right there! We of course don't know about it and the silence regarding the big triangles/boomerangs from some scientists in the UFO field is evidence enough for me. With such a technology you could move massive tonnage to and fro. Building housing modules in secret bases is then just a matter of men and materiel. Let's pretend that there is a craft that can move the equivalent of a destroyer off the surface of the Earth and to the Moon in let's say, less than a working day. Well, with that you could probably move the population of a small city in no time. Water, food etc. additional. Propulsion we know of. Just within the Solar System alone we've cut down travel time from years to months, and those are the propulsion systems that are made public. No telling what's in the vaults. A lot of 'ifs' but I don't think out of the range of possibility given just the technical disclosures gleaned over the past 10 years alone. Moving lots of stuff fast has always been an advantage. I'm betting however any secret bases on Earth or elsewhere probably have the same ratio of elitists, bigots and knuckleheads we've got here on Earth. I'll bet some senators and congressmen have been given tours of such facilities with the promise that if Armageddon jumps off they and their families will be whisked away to safety. That'd sure get the black budgets signed real quick I'd wager. Or better yet, from a skeptic's point of view, I'll bet there are mock ups of 'advanced' craft in hangers that look like something from a Star Wars movie and some lawmakers have been scammed into thinking they actually work. Anything to get em' to sign those budgets.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:24:53 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:16:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Pope >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:58:23 -0600 >Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On >>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:09:08 -0000 >>Subject: Rendlesham 25 Years On >>The Forestry Commission will be holding a commemorative event in >>Rendlesham Forest on Monday December 26, to mark the 25th >>anniversary of the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident: >>http://tinyurl.com/8jzze >At the Forestry Commission's web site, I noticed the description of the event: >"Description: >In 1980, an un-identified object, visited Rendlesham Forest. >Come and see the site and hear the tale." >That's a rather direct statement for a government agency to >make. Note how they didn't say an "alleged" un-identified object >or a possible misidentification of a lighthouse light. Does >England's Forestry Commission believe a UFO visited Rendlesham >Forest in 1980? They do use the word "alleged" at the top of the page though, where the heading is "25th anniversary of the alleged UFO
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:38:05 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:17:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - McGonagle Hello Don, List, >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:36:50 -0400 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:38:26 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article <snip> >So what exactly is it's significance, if we don't know what it >>means? >It seems to have, significantly, ruffled your feathers, John. Thanks for your input, Don. I take it that you think Georgina called the book You Can't Tell The People, just to stimulate John's avian hirsuiteness, judging by your answer to his question. I also fail to understand why in the order of 20 percent of a lengthy article harps on about an inscrutable comment made by perhaps one of the most reviled politicians in British history, before re-hashing the clich=E9 of Rendlesham. (I also note that it has been rehashed twice on-list within a short period as well). In relation to the historic (or hysteric?) occasion of Georgina calling him early in the morning to tell him excitedly of her detailed conversation with the ex prime minister about Rendlesham and UFOs (which must have lasted at least 30 seconds) Nick wrote: "I quickly grasped the significance of what I was told" Yet when Nick is asked what the significance was, he replied: "I wouldn't want to give a definitive interpretation of the remarks, given that I wasn't present". I was most impressed to learn that the "Government's UFO Project" couldn't ignore it and made best efforts to find some conventional explanation for the event. Their investigation was amateur and ineffective to say the least - the primary witness was not interviewed (which would have revealed the cock-up over the date), there is no record of the site being visited, or a radiological survey being carried out at the location (given the implied importance of the radiation readings, this should have been done). If that is "the Project's" best efforts, I would hate to see the outcome of their routine efforts - it would probably be like watching the Keystone Cops! Isn't it great to know that the defence of the realm is in such skilfull, motivated, conscientious and thorough hands - this is the only reason that I feel safe going to bed at night, secure in the knowledge that the brave boys of the Civil Service are on the ball, complete with the full resources of the massive "UFO Project" team (would that be a battalion, regiment, or division sized unit?).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:50:53 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:27:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:46:38 EST >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:16:37 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files ><snip> >>Regarding your point about anything Russian being under the >>FTD instead of NASA, that's mostly, but not entirely, true. >>NASA might still be peripherally involved. E.g., metallic debris >>from the fireball was reported falling down in Elyria, Ohio, and >>being recovered by three boys. The Elyria paper showed front- >>page pictures of the boys with some of their metal fragments. >>The story said the nearby NASA facility in Cleveland was >>contacted about investigating this. I spoke to one of the grown >>boys who recovered the metal fragments right after they fell >>to the ground. He said a few days later, several white cars with >>NASA logos pulled up and confiscated the dozen metal samples >>they had collected. All they were ever told by NASA afterwards >>was that the this was supposedly "foundry slag." They never >>found out what happened to _their_ metal fragments. >This is better explained by the proximity and locality of a >major NASA facility in Cleveland, Ohio, to the fall site at >Elyria, Ohio, than to NASA having any overlapping or >controlling jurisdiction over potentially Russian or foreign >satellite material of intelligence value, which would have been >under USAF FTD jurisdiction under MOON DUST. >Someone has to report and/or recover the debris, before >MOON DUST can fly out, and if a scientific agency or >NASA identifies it as meteoritic or non-foreign satellite >material and the AF can double check the ground paths >of Russian (etc.) satellites, then there is no need for FTD >to become involved (if that's what happened at Elyria). I think the big points here are that NASA now admits being involved, knowing that the fireball was NOT a meteor, and claiming instead that it was a "Russian satellite." Incidentally, Elyria isn't the only place with metal debris falls from the fireball. The Detroit News, e.g., reported finds in two suburbs of Detroit (Livonia and Warren), Concord, Michigan (about 70 miles west of Detroit), and LaPeer, Michigan (about 30 miles north of Detroit) and where grass fires also broke out. The Detroit News said that "dozens of other places reported that blazing bits of matter fell from the fiery object which streaked across the sky from west to east." Grass fires from the fireball were also recorded in Elyria. Newspapers said debris was also seen to fall to the ground next door in Lorain, Ohio. Another debris fall was reported in Midland, Pennsylvania, near the eastern border of Ohio and about 20 miles WNW of Pittsburgh. Draw a best fit line through all these reported debris fall areas (including Kecksburg) and one gets a trajectory running from the WNW in Michigan, passing about over Detroit and Elyria, and ending up to the ESE in Kecksberg. Now add in other eyewitness reports of the fireball crossing northern Ohio, being seen in Pittsburgh from the airport control tower, sonic boom reports from western Pennsylvania being phoned in to the state police, and of something dropping in the woods and being seen by witnesses in Kecksburg, and there is a clear connection between the fireball and the events in Kecksburg. In fact, the initial assumption in some newspaper articles was this was a meteor traveling west to east with some piece of it maybe coming down in Pennsylvania. >But there was no NASA installation near Kecksburg, PA, and no >need for NASA to become involved, except in a secondary or >consulting role, The point I'm making is that although NASA probably was not directly involved with what happened in Kecksburg, the fact that they analyzed some debris, presumably that dropped from the fireball, means they know something about what happened at Kecksburg. It was part of the same event. This makes their current admission that the fireball was NOT a meteor especially significant. >if a Russian Kosmos had really been involved >(which seems an impossibility according to the bits and pieces >of orbital data I've been able to collect about Kosmos 96 >which would have put its ground path over South America >not North America if still in orbit as late as at 4-5 PM on Dec 9, >1965). This was also the conclusion back in 2003 of Nicholas Johnson, NASA's orbital debris expert. He said it was absolutely impossible for any part of Kosmos 96 to have come down in Kecksberg or to have accounted for the fireball. (Even James Oberg now admits this over on the Whispers discussion group. Now Oberg's tack is that the fireball was - a meteor, and nothing was found at Kecksburg:) http://tinyurl.com/792sv Furthermore, according to Johnson, nothing else on record re- entered the Earth's atmosphere that day. But now NASA is saying it was a "Russian satellite." What Russian satellite? According to Johnson, none on record could account for it. >This point is clinched by the fact the NASA file on Kecksburg >was maintained by NASA's liaison officer for the AF's Project >MOON DUST. The AF's FTD would have primary jurisdiction not >NASA. True, but it seems NASA was involved in picking up fragments that came down from the fireball and having them analyzed. They do know something about what really happened and have just admitted it wasn't a meteor. Another of their experts has
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:25:29 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:40:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:40:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:30:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>However, says Mazza, Murphy's enthusiasm for the case evaporated >>after he received several "unexpected visitors" at the station. >>Soon after, Murphy was killed in a hit-and-run accident in the >>state of California. The driver was never found. And the news >>reporter's notebooks, tapes and photos mysteriously disappeared >>not long after. >"Soon after"? As late as Sept 25, 1968, he was working in radio. Somewhat after the Dec 9, 1965, story he was said to investigate. >Can't it just be a coincidence that he died (rather than be 'killed') in a car accident? James, James, clearly you fail to grasp the First Law of Conspiracy Theory: There _are_ no coincidences. Now repeat that a thousand times until you have a firm understanding of that obvious fact.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 13 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:01 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:42:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:16:37 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>Regarding your point about anything Russian being under the FTD >>instead of NASA, that's mostly, but not entirely, true. NASA >>might still be peripherally involved. E.g., metallic debris from >>the fireball was reported falling down in Elyria, Ohio, and >>being recovered by three boys. The Elyria paper showed front- >>page pictures of the boys with some of their metal fragments. >>The story said the nearby NASA facility in Cleveland was >>contacted about investigating this. I spoke to one of the grown >>boys who recovered the metal fragments right after they fell to >>the ground. He said a few days later, several white cars with >>NASA logos pulled up and confiscated the dozen metal samples >>they had collected. All they were ever told by NASA afterwards >>was that the this was supposedly "foundry slag." They never >>found out what happened to _their_ metal fragments. >The article you mentioned also has the following: >"One piece is being held for study of Werner Bromund, professor >of chemistry at Oberlin College. He left early today for >Chicago, and will have the unusual metal awaiting him on his >return to Oberlin." >Did you try contacting Oberlin? Nope, I didn't follow up on this. Nonetheless, NASA is now admitting that they did analyze debris and it wasn't from a meteor. The other important parts of the new story is that it was from a "Russian satellite," though NASA's own expert ruled this out in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:43:08 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:49:34 -0500 Subject: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God Nice to see a poll like this. http://tinyurl.com/96wwu Mind you, if the mad scientists, press, and debunkers had their way these believers would be locked up in an institution somewhere for believing in something that has no physical evidence. Faith goes a long way. Hopefully unlike in the past, one's faith won't become corrupted to the point of persecuting those with other viewpoints.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Former Politicians To Look Out For ET From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:02:26 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:53:57 -0500 Subject: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET Source: ABC - Australian Broadcasting Commission http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1526555.htm Friday, 9 December 2005 ABC Science Online Ex-Pollies To Look Out For ET by Anna Salleh Philosophers and former politicians will soon join an elite group of scientists whose job it is to work out how to respond to signals from extra-terrestrial intelligence. Professor Paul Davies, of the Australian Centre for Astrobiology at Macquarie University in Sydney, who heads the group, says a call from ET would raise profound issues that require consideration from more than "a bunch of gung ho scientists". "Nothing would be the same again. I think there's no doubt about that," says Davies, who has just taken up the chair of the SETI: Post-Detection Science and Technology Taskgroup of the International Academy of Astronautics. "We all recognise this is one hell of a long shot but nevertheless if they should succeed [to contact us], not only would it be the greatest discovery in the history of science but it would throw us all into disarray." Davies says simply knowing that humanity was not alone would be like Copernicus' discovery that the Earth wasn't at the centre of the universe or Darwin's theory that we've evolved over billions of years from humble origins. "It would change our world view very profoundly. It would take a generation or two for the full implications to sink in," he says. Davies hopes to "cast the net broadly" and ask philosophers, artists and "elder statesmen" like Gorbechov or Clinton, to join the committee. The group will also include experts in the media in the hope of avoiding false ET alarms based on unverified reports. "There's a tried and tested procedure for eliminating all these false alarms but it would be the business of this committee to make sure that those procedures have been properly enacted before going public." ET to get own telescope From February next year, the Allen Telescope Array in Northern California will spend all of its time searching for signs of extra-terrestrial intelligence. This in turn will increase the chance of possible ET signals and make it more important to have a response plan in place in the event that a signal is verified. Davies says if a signal is verified, it might be evidence of alien technology or of intergalactic radio or laser traffic not intended for us. But the scenario uppermost in most peoples' minds, albeit the most unlikely, is where a signal is beamed directly at us with a message, he says. Careful reflection Davies says if ET asked humanity for some basic facts it would be possible to reply without too much thought. But if ET asked for more information about us, it would be important to take time to compose a response. "We'd need to reflect very carefully," he says. Given that any return message would take a long time to get back, Davies says we can afford to take a few months thinking through the implications of a response. He also says that being confronted with an alien civilisation of "unthinkable" technological advance would be like getting the key to "encyclopaedia galactica". "You can imagine that if you had a civilisation that maybe had 10 million years of development, pretty much everything that they could do would seem like magic to us," says Davies. "Things like immortality might be very straightforward." Friend or foe Davies says some scientists are nervous about replying to a signal if it announces our existence to aliens with bad intentions. But he is more optimistic. "If they were out there, and they were aggressive and expansionary, then they would have already been here. We would have already taken over a long time ago," he says. "My own feeling is a civilisation that would endure for a long period of time would have learnt to live in peace and harmony and manage its own planet well. "If there is something for us to know it's going to be something that will help us to manage our planet and the transition to this 'galactic club', as some people call it." Davies hopes the committee will deliver a policy document outlining its recommendations in a year or so. ----- Regards Diane Harrison The Australian UFO Research Network Australian Skywatch Director http://www.auforn.com P.O Box 738 Beaudesert, 4285 Australia.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Sandow From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:14:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:55:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Sandow >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:58:23 -0600 >Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On >In 1980, an un-identified object, visited Rendlesham Forest. >Come and see the site and hear the tale." >That's a rather direct statement for a government agency to >make. Note how they didn't say an "alleged" un-identified object >or a possible misidentification of a lighthouse light. Does >England's Forestry Commission believe a UFO visited Rendlesham >Forest in 1980? I think it's just careless writing. Probably they meant to say, "In 1980, there was a UFO sighting in Rendlesham Forest." They came up with the phrase they used without thinking about the literal meaning of their words - a very common mistake that careless writers make. They're the Forestry Commission, after all. They aren't experts in the precise ways the likes of us have learned about how to phrase a UFO claim. In any case, it'll be pretty easy to find out what position they're taking. We just have to look at the complete matieral
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:46:23 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:57:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Hall >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:36:50 -0400 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:38:26 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:21:34 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:10:41 +0000 >>>>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>>If you don't know what it means, why do you keep repeating it >>>>as though it's significant? >>>Because comments about UFOs from former Prime Ministers are >>>extremely rare and therefore extraordinarily significant, >>>whatever interpretation one puts on them. >>So what exactly is it's significance, if we don't know what it >>means? >It seems to have, significantly, ruffled your feathers, John. Actually we have talked about this before, but skeptibunkers appear to have a low tolerance for ambiguity. Anything unexplained must be explained somehow forthwith, no matter how ad hoc or far-fetched the alleged identification. This can put
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:53:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:00:38 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:12:12 -0600 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:58:46 -0800 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC > ><snip> >>saying. But for those who have seemingly been quick to debunk >>his statements, it is worth noting and remembering that he _is_ a >>respected politician in this country. >>When a former Defence Minister, of any country, talks about UFOs >>being real, we may be well advised to listen, regardless of the >>outcome (if any) of this. >Yes, Paul, we should most certainly listen. I'm listening but >I'm also thinking, analyzing and asking questions. Just because >it comes from the mouth of a former Defence Minister doesn't >mean it's the truth, a lie or something in between. It means >someone wants us to hear specific bits of information and >believe that information is somewhat accurate. >If you want to keep the truth hidden, you direct the public's >attention _away_ from it (art of deception 101). If you tell >people the information is secret or "classified", that will only >serve to get more attention - use this to your advantage. Keep >the public happy with myths, mysteries, FOIA's, alleged "deep >throats" and so-called "revelations", i.e. keep the focus on >everything BUT the truth, and you can play that hand >for...decades. If the public wants UFOs and aliens, give them >UFOs, aliens, blacked-out documents, etc. so they won't go >looking for any _real_ UFOs, aliens or the truth. Hell, just >have anything that looks like a "UFO" make an appearance now and >then, keep everyone looking up for 'flying saucers' and people >probably wouldn't recognize a real UFO if they saw one. To >maintain the myths, provide all kinds of "experts", military and >government officials, organizations, books, conferences, >radio/TV programs and even UFO forums to keep the public >believing anything but the truth or asking questions that might >put officials in the hot seat. >>People have been wanting high-ranking politicians to do this >>very thing for many years, and now...? >I'm wondering why Hellyer is going public with his theory now >instead of when he was the Defence Minister. Will he be sharing >all kinds of "secrets" he learned while in office now that he is >free to share all this other information with us? I mean, you'd >expect a _Defence Minister_ to be able to keep his mouth shut >for national security reasons. So what makes "loose lips" OK now >that he is no longer a Defence Minister? Can you imagine Donald >Rumsfield, Gen. Pace, Condoleezza Rice or even Pres. Bush going >public talking about UFOs and 'alien warfare' when they are no >longer in office? Nope, it just doesn't make sense, >unless...it's part of a disinformation campaign. >>The conspiracy angle of his statements does make me >>uncomfortable and question his reasons for doing this, but I'm >>not ready to discount them based just on that, given his >>background. >That's just it - based on his background, maybe he is still >working for his government in another role or capacity either >wittingly or unwittingly. If you take an oath to defend your >country, you just don't go to the media/public claiming another >country is preparing for war with aliens once you are out of >office! If it's true, why would he risk so much to tell us this? >If it's some great secret the US is hiding, why is he still >alive? >>Or maybe he really is just stating personal beliefs (or, as some >>people would say, "has lost it"), but if not, then what....? >I don't know how they do things in Canada but here in the States, >current or former government officials who "lose it" usually jump >out windows from tall buildings or take naps in cars connected to >the exhaust. (I'm joking, of course...ha-ha) The fact that Hellyer >has been allowed to continue sharing his theories with the world >makes me think someone _wants_ him to do so either to make a fool of >himself, spread disinformation or perhaps sound the alarm. I >seriously doubt the Canadian or US governments are just giggling >behind his back or ignoring him. >What is wrong with this picture? Nothing at all! I'm only irritated that male ufologists (inc. observers like me) don't seem capable of following a chain of logical analysis as thoroughly as you have - with realistic (rather than formally respectable or outright political) propaganda scenarios. It may be that we males suffer from mental `potholes' we have to avoid for fear of being thought "non-professional" or making ourselves look foolish in other ways (like - non-macho). Likewise it took Dr Jill Tarter (SETI - remember?) to say the unsayable: "We've only been able to communicate electronically for a few decades. If there is anyone else out there with technology, sheer odds suggest they've had it much, much longer than we have. To them, we might be viewed as the scum of the universe." Which seemed to have been received in virtual silence and since buried by more `feel-good science'. Well, hear it again: "comfort" and "truth" don't live in the same street, or town, or maybe even country. Cheers Ray D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 New York Times Vs. *U* UFO Database From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:08:57 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:04:15 -0500 Subject: New York Times Vs. *U* UFO Database Hello all: Professor Allan Mazur of Syracuse University has done a study comparing sightings frequencies over the years, plotting a normalized graph of NYT counts (in black) and *U* Database counts (in red) in this new article online: http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/amazur/hatchufodata.htm I was surprised at the apparent level of agreement, suggesting press coverage and *U* counts correlate fairly strongly. One interesting thing is that my peak at 1968 came after the NYT peak in 1967, while my 1995 peak came before the NYT peak in 1997. Per his Syracuse University curriculum vitae: Allan Mazur, a sociologist and an engineer, is professor of public affairs in the Maxwell School of Syracuse University (NY), where he has taught since 1971. Prior to that he was a member of the social science faculties of MIT and Stanford University, and he has worked for some years in the aerospace industry. He has a B.S. in physics (IIT, 1961), and M.S. in engineering (UCLA, 1964) and a Ph.D. in sociology (Johns Hopkins, 1969). I presume Mazur will be completing a paper before long, one which will examine the statistics etc. in terms of sociology rather than anything anomalous or of a nuts-and-bolts nature.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:24:12 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 07:06:12 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:16:47 EST >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video <snip> >Say it's true that at some point black ops developed or stole or >whatever acquired some form of anti gravity technology. I and some members of the advanced electronic harassment group can tell you black ops _has_ done that. In spades. Happens frequently on a small covert scale, but frequently none the less.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:02:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:03:39 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:12:12 -0600 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:58:46 -0800 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC <snip> >I'm wondering why Hellyer is going public with his theory now >instead of when he was the Defence Minister. Will he be sharing >all kinds of "secrets" he learned while in office now that he is >free to share all this other information with us? I mean, you'd >expect a _Defence Minister_ to be able to keep his mouth shut >for national security reasons. So what makes "loose lips" OK now >that he is no longer a Defence Minister? Can you imagine Donald >Rumsfield, Gen. Pace, Condoleezza Rice or even Pres. Bush going >public talking about UFOs and 'alien warfare' when they are no >longer in office? Nope, it just doesn't make sense, unless... >it's part of a disinformation campaign. <snip> Amy, as I have previously noted, Hellyer explicitly stated he had learned no classified information as Defense Minister back in the late 1960s. He was impressed with Corso's book and had a General tell him that Corso was correct and more so. No classified material at all. He is also well known for having changed political parties and then trying to establish his own party. He is about 82 or 83 and has a reputation for having fouled up the Canadian military. And of course he is opposed to weapons in space and doesn't seem to know the difference between Intergalactic and intragalactic. In short he provided personal opinions without a solid basis.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:09:29 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:36:44 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks - Sparks >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:12:12 -0600 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:58:46 -0800 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:21:15 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC <snip> >>>When I hear/read something like this, I automatically ask, "What >>>is the purpose of this information? What is motivating this >>>individual to make such claims so boldly in public?" <snip> >>Well put, Amy. I'm as surprised as anyone at what Hellyer has been >>saying. But for those who have seemingly been quick to debunk >>his statements, it is worth noting and remembering that he _is_ a >>respected politician in this country. <snip> >Yes, Paul, we should most certainly listen. I'm listening but >I'm also thinking, analyzing and asking questions. Just because >it comes from the mouth of a former Defence Minister doesn't >mean it's the truth, a lie or something in between. It means >someone wants us to hear specific bits of information and >believe that information is somewhat accurate. Hellyer is _not_ a "respected politician" in Canada but a well- known flip-flopper who was all over the political spectrum from left, right and center, embracing odd causes all his political life, as informed Canadians such as Paul Kimball know. Paul has documented Hellyer's checkered career and it would be good if you would take the time to read it: http://tinyurl.com/9fzs7 http://tinyurl.com/7426q
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Rimmer From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:56:24 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:42:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Rimmer >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:36:50 -0400 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:38:26 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:21:34 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:10:41 +0000 >>>>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>>If you don't know what it means, why do you keep repeating it >>>>as though it's significant? >>>Because comments about UFOs from former Prime Ministers are >>>extremely rare and therefore extraordinarily significant, >>>whatever interpretation one puts on them. >>So what exactly is it's significance, if we don't know what it >>means?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:03:51 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:44:18 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:12:12 -0600 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >I'm wondering why Hellyer is going public with his theory now >instead of when he was the Defence Minister. Will he be sharing >all kinds of "secrets" he learned while in office now that he is >free to share all this other information with us? I mean, you'd >expect a _Defence Minister_ to be able to keep his mouth shut >for national security reasons. So what makes "loose lips" OK now >that he is no longer a Defence Minister? Can you imagine Donald >Rumsfield, Gen. Pace, Condoleezza Rice or even Pres. Bush going >public talking about UFOs and 'alien warfare' when they are no >longer in office? Nope, it just doesn't make sense, >unless...it's part of a disinformation campaign. It couldn't just be that he's gone a bit barmy in his old age, could it? >I don't know how they do things in Canada but here in the States, >current or former government officials who "lose it" usually jump >out windows from tall buildings or take naps in cars connected to >the exhaust. (I'm joking, of course...ha-ha) The fact that Hellyer >has been allowed to continue sharing his theories with the world >makes me think someone _wants_ him to do so either to make a fool of >himself, spread disinformation or perhaps sound the alarm. I >seriously doubt the Canadian or US governments are just giggling >behind his back or ignoring him.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Rendlesham UFO TV Programs From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:27:30 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:46:12 -0500 Subject: Rendlesham UFO TV Programs Having received calls from the respective production companies, I think the position on Rendlesham TV programs is as follows: Saturday December 17 - Britain's Roswell (New History Channel documentary). Tuesday December 27 - UFO Invasion At Rendlesham (Repeat of Sci-Fi Channel documentary).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:53:09 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:48:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Dickenson >From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:38:05 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article <snip> >In relation to the historic (or hysteric?) occasion of Georgina >calling him early in the morning to tell him excitedly of her >detailed conversation with the ex prime minister about >Rendlesham and UFOs (which must have lasted at least 30 seconds) >Nick wrote: >"I quickly grasped the significance of what I was told" >Yet when Nick is asked what the significance was, he replied: >"I wouldn't want to give a definitive interpretation of the >remarks, given that I wasn't present". >I was most impressed to learn that the "Government's UFO >Project" couldn't ignore it and made best efforts to find some >conventional explanation for the event. Their investigation was >amateur and ineffective to say the least - the primary witness >was not interviewed (which would have revealed the cock-up over >the date), there is no record of the site being visited, or a >radiological survey being carried out at the location (given the >implied importance of the radiation readings, this should have >been done). If that is "the Project's" best efforts, I would >hate to see the outcome of their routine efforts - it would >probably be like watching the Keystone Cops! >Isn't it great to know that the defence of the realm is in such >skilfull, motivated, conscientious and thorough hands - this is >the only reason that I feel safe going to bed at night, secure >in the knowledge that the brave boys of the Civil Service are on >the ball, complete with the full resources of the massive "UFO >Project" team (would that be a battalion, regiment, or division >sized unit?). Joe, As a UK observer, with knowledge of our "civil service" I reckon Nick Pope has been treading a narrow tightrope; balancing his own desire to sell books, based on so-called insider knowledge of the mysterious "UFO Project" inside UK's bureaucracy; against his own certain knowledge that any civil servant or agent who tells the truth against the wishes of his bosses will _not_ draw a bureaucrat's pension (one way or another). "Cui Bono?" - "Who benefits?" is always the first check. Cheers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:46:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:54:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Ledger >From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:38:05 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:36:50 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:38:26 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article ><snip> >>So what exactly is it's significance, if we don't know what >>it >>>means? >>It seems to have, significantly, ruffled your feathers, >>John. >Thanks for your input, Don. I take it that you think Georgina >called the book You Can't Tell The People, just to stimulate >John's avian hirsuiteness, judging by your answer to his question. No kidding... he's actually got feathers? No wonder he gets upset with Jerry about those pelican shots. >I also fail to understand why in the order of 20 percent of a >lengthy article harps on about an inscrutable comment made by >perhaps one of the most reviled politicians in British >history, before re-hashing the clich=E9 of Rendlesham. Limited the power of trade unions. Works for me, and I've been in three. >(I also note that it has been rehashed twice on-List within a >short period as well). Rendlesham or the "You can't tell the people" phrase? >In relation to the historic (or hysteric?) occasion of >Georgina calling him early in the morning to tell him >excitedly of her detailed conversation with the ex prime >minister about Rendlesham and UFOs (which must have lasted at >least 30 seconds) Nick wrote: >"I quickly grasped the significance of what I was told" >Yet when Nick is asked what the significance was, he replied: >"I wouldn't want to give a definitive interpretation of the >remarks, given that I wasn't present". I was most impressed to >learn that the "Government's UFO Project" couldn't ignore it and >made best efforts to find some conventional explanation for the >event. Their investigation was amateur and ineffective to say >the least - the primary witness was not interviewed (which >would have revealed the cock-up over the date), there is no >record of the site being visited, or a radiological survey >being carried out at the location (given the implied importance >of the radiation readings, this should have been done). If that >is "the Project's" best efforts, I would hate to see the >outcome of their routine efforts - it would probably be like >watching the Keystone Cops! >Isn't it great to know that the defence of the realm is in >such skilfull, motivated, conscientious and thorough hands - >this is the only reason that I feel safe going to bed at >night, secure in the knowledge that the brave boys of the >Civil Service are on the ball, complete with the full >resources of the massive "UFO Project" team (would that be a >battalion, regiment, or division sized unit?). I think you expect too much from the store front display, Joe. Neither you or I has any real concept of what's going on top floor offices.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 'Project SERPO' Sent U.S. Military To Another From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:00:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:00:09 -0500 Subject: 'Project SERPO' Sent U.S. Military To Another Source: American Chronicle - Beverly Hills, California, USA http://tinyurl.com/88q5u December 13, 2005 Alleged 'Project SERPO' Sent U.S. Military Team To Another Planet? By Steve Hammons In recent weeks, information has surfaced on the Web about an alleged U.S. Government military project called "Project SERPO". We've all heard about reports of unusual and unconventional secret government projects. Some of them seem so far out that you wonder if they are real or an "urban legend" floating around. Yet, many of us understand that people within our government and our military sometimes face unusual and strange phenomena in the course of their duties. According to a mysterious source's comments on a recently- developed Web site, serpo.org, Project SERPO was an effort developed between the late 1940s and the mid-1960s. It was a joint project between the U.S. Government and a race of friendly beings from a planet in the Zeta Reticuli star system. The source claims that diplomatic relations were established between the U.S. Government and these beings after their spacecraft crashed in New Mexico in 1947. Aw, give me a break, you may say. What have these people been smoking =96 medical cannabis or something? We've heard and read about unconventional government projects before such as "remote viewing" intelligence-gathering methods, time-travel physics research, psychological studies on "magic mushrooms," unusual non-lethal weapons and similar efforts. But relations with visitors from another planet? That's not all. Information on the SERPO Web site describes a project that selected and trained a joint-service U.S. military team to board a spacecraft of these visitors and go to their home planet for a planned ten-year stay. And, that in the mid- 60s, this was successfully accomplished. Most of the team members returned and were debriefed. Remember the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind?" Remember when the government teams set up a landing zone for the "visitors" and how Army Special Forces personnel assisted with covert logistics? Remember how 12 people in red jumpsuits were transported to the LZ for boarding? The entries on serpo.org allege that this is based on fact. In addition, the information posted there and elsewhere indicates that the government has been struggling since the 1940s to figure out how to break this kind of information to the general public without creating anxiety and negative disruption. According to the information, various efforts have been underway over the decades to gradually prepare us for this reality. Well, do you buy it? It would make a good novel or movie, that's for sure. Is it possibly true or is it just someone's imagination and a bunch of warmed-over stories from movies, writings and UFO lore? If there was some truth to it, how would Americans and the rest of humankind react? Would we have open minds and hearts toward friendly visitors? Would we be afraid? Would we feel intimidated if they had more advanced technology and knowledge? Would we hate them because they look different and have different beliefs? Undoubtedly, it would add more complexity to our view of things. Not only do we have trouble getting along with other countries and other people who are different, now we would really need to be tolerant and open-minded. And, are their other kinds of "visitors" who are not quite so friendly, or even dangerous in some way? This could explain why our government officials might have thought it wise to keep information like this from the general public. According to information on the serpo.org site, there are responsible people in and out of government who may now believe that the time is right for more gradual disclosure of information about this situation. These people, people with compassion and vision, could feel that we might now be ready to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Strange New Object Found At Edge Of Solar System From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:04:14 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:04:14 -0500 Subject: Strange New Object Found At Edge Of Solar System Source: The New Scientist - Sutton, Surrey, UK http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8455 Strange new object found at edge of Solar System 13 December 2005 Strange New Object Found At Edge Of Solar System Maggie McKee A large object has been found beyond Pluto travelling in an orbit tilted by 47 degrees to most other bodies in the solar system. Astronomers are at a loss to explain why the object's orbit is so off-kilter while being almost circular. Researchers led by Lynne Allen at the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada, first spotted the object in observations made with the Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope in December 2004. Since October 2005, they have made follow-up observations that have revealed the object's perplexing path. Tentatively named 2004 XR190, the object appears to have a diameter of between 500 and 1000 kilometres, making it somewhere between a fifth and nearly half as wide as Pluto. It lies in a vast ring of icy bodies beyond Neptune called the Kuiper Belt, most of which orbit in nearly the same plane as Earth. But at 47 degrees, 2004 XR190's orbit is one of the most tilted, or inclined, Kuiper Belt Objects known. That suggests it was flung out of the solar system's main disc after a close encounter with another object - such as Neptune or perhaps a star that passed by the Sun billions of years ago. Scatter effect Neptune has been blamed for scattering many other KBOs into tilted paths. But these tend to show other signs of a past interaction with the giant planet, such as moving in elliptical paths and having one part of their orbit pass near Neptune's at 30 astronomical units (AU) from the Sun (1 AU is the distance between the Earth and the Sun). 2004 XR190, however, follows a nearly circular path. And it is too distant to have come into direct contact with Neptune, travelling between 52 and 62 AU from the Sun. Its orbit is also too circular - and too small - to have been tilted by a passing star, says Allen. These traits make the object, nicknamed "Buffy" after the US television series about a vampire slayer, hard to explain. "Maybe Buffy is going to be a bit of a theory slayer," Allen told New Scientist. But she suggests one theory that might account for the space rock's strange orbit. It involves a commonly held notion that early in the solar system, Neptune itself moved outward into its present orbit, from around Uranus's current location. Gravitational kick As it did so, its gravitational reach extended outwards, as well. This reach comes in the form of zones, or resonances, where an object's orbital period happens to be an integer multiple of Neptune's. So when one of these outward-expanding resonances swept past 2004 XR190, it could have kicked the object out of a fairly circular, flat orbit into a more elongated, tilted one. Then, over time, the orbit might have grown more circular as the tilt increased. "These interactions can cause some Kuiper Belt Objects to circularise and tilt," says Allen. But she remains cautious: "We don't know if Buffy's orbit really was created in this manner - because it could be too far away from a resonance or the resonance could not be strong enough - but this seems like the best shot." Renu Malhotra, a planetary scientist at the University of Arizona in Tucson, US, says most resonances simply elongate an object's orbit. She says a few objects could "trade off" some of their elongation, or eccentricity, for a higher tilt, but the effect would be small. "I find it hard to see how you would get a large inclination out of a modest eccentricity," Malhotra told New Scientist. "There's a limit on how much inclination you can trade off." Hal Levison, a planetary scientist at the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colorado, US, says he and others have produced objects like Buffy using models of such special resonances. "However, I do have some problems with the idea," he admits. Hidden objects He points out that this object was found when it happened to be passing through the plane of the solar system - where it spends just 2% of its orbit. That suggests many more such objects remain undiscovered, tilted at orbits where most surveys do not search for them. "I just don't think these mechanisms can deliver that much stuff," Levison told New Scientist. He ventures another possible explanation - that the Sun had a twin and that both stars followed circular orbits around each other. "That could excite inclinations without exciting the eccentricities," he says. "However, this idea creates more problems than it solves, by far." Allen and her colleagues will continue to observe the new object to pin down its orbit more accurately. And following the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:46:18 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:08:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:01 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:16:37 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>Regarding your point about anything Russian being under the FTD >>>instead of NASA, that's mostly, but not entirely, true. NASA >>>might still be peripherally involved. E.g., metallic debris from >>>the fireball was reported falling down in Elyria, Ohio, and >>>being recovered by three boys. The Elyria paper showed front- >>>page pictures of the boys with some of their metal fragments. >>>The story said the nearby NASA facility in Cleveland was >>>contacted about investigating this. I spoke to one of the grown >>>boys who recovered the metal fragments right after they fell to >>>the ground. He said a few days later, several white cars with >>>NASA logos pulled up and confiscated the dozen metal samples >>>they had collected. All they were ever told by NASA afterwards >>>was that the this was supposedly "foundry slag." They never >>>found out what happened to _their_ metal fragments. >>The article you mentioned also has the following: >>"One piece is being held for study of Werner Bromund, professor >>of chemistry at Oberlin College. He left early today for >>Chicago, and will have the unusual metal awaiting him on his >>return to Oberlin." >>Did you try contacting Oberlin? >Nope, I didn't follow up on this. Nonetheless, NASA is now >admitting that they did analyze debris and it wasn't from a >meteor. >The other important parts of the new story is that it was from a >"Russian satellite," though NASA's own expert ruled this out in >2003 when Leslie Kean checked with him. Nothing orbiting came >down that day in that area. Hello David, I think you are a good researcher. Would you be willing to contact Oberlin to find out whether professor Werner Bromund is still alive? If he is still around it would be good to locate him to find out his opinion and if he wrote up a report. If he is no longer around it would be good to find out if there is an
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:59:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:12:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - >From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:02:26 +1000 >Subject: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET >Source: ABC - Australian Broadcasting Commission >http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1526555.htm >Friday, 9 December 2005 >ABC Science Online >Ex-Pollies To Look Out For ET >by Anna Salleh >Philosophers and former politicians will soon join an elite >group of scientists whose job it is to work out how to respond >to signals from extra-terrestrial intelligence. >Professor Paul Davies, of the Australian Centre for Astrobiology >at Macquarie University in Sydney, who heads the group, says a >call from ET would raise profound issues that require >consideration from more than "a bunch of gung ho scientists". <snip> What a splendid example of why I refer to the cult of SETI: Charismatic Leadership, very strong dogma,strong resistance to outside ideas, greatly enlarged notion of their own importance. So astrophysicists are experts on the behavior of civilizations? Can't conceive of aliens coming here and not wanting to talk to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Carol Rainey <csrainey1.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:01:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:19:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:30:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:37:31 EST >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: ufoupdates.nul >>>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> >>>Date: 12/9/2005 1:52:41 PM Pacific Standard Time >>>Subj: UFO UpDate: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>Source: The Times-Leader - Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, USA >>>http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/news/local/13360634.htm ><snip> > >According to the article below, photos of the Kecksburg UFO were >taken by a radio news reporter at the time which were shown to >at least one person before he was killed. His death reminded me >of Dr. John Mack, Dr. Nick Spanos and others who knew a lot >about UFOs and who met similar "accidental" fates. >http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_161683.html <snip> Listers, As a close friend of John Mack's, I have to interrupt this conspiracy talk to tell you that John was not 'done in' because he knew too much about UFOs and had evidence that scared the government. After his initial researching of the phenomenon, John took very little interest in such things as the Kecksburg case. He basically didn't give a damn about the controversies over every little sighting of a hard-edged flying object. When I was writing Sight Unseen (the science portions) with Budd, John said to me: "Carol, I have no interest in the science of all this." And he didn't. He leaped right over that and headed to what really grabbed him. John was much more interested in the mystical, spiritual, even interdimensional aspects of the phenomeon that we often too broadly refer to as "UFOs". And that was his area of study. On the day he left for England, he e-mailed me that his next area of interest was in life after death and that he'd begun a project on this topic. John Mack, wherever he is right now, would be laughing ruefully
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:09:34 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:29:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Clark >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:43:08 EST >Subject: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >Nice to see a poll like this. >http://tinyurl.com/96wwu >Mind you, if the mad scientists, press, and debunkers had >their way these believers would be locked up in an institution >somewhere for believing in something that has no physical >evidence. >Faith goes a long way. Hopefully unlike in the past, one's >faith won't become corrupted to the point of persecuting those >with other viewpoints. Is your point, then, that belief in an unseen, unprovable deity is equivalent to the conclusion - growing out of thoughtful, informed evaluation of the available evidence - that the UFO phenomenon represents a genuine challenge to science?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 14 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:58:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:39:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:01 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>"One piece is being held for study of Werner Bromund, professor >>of chemistry at Oberlin College. He left early today for >>Chicago, and will have the unusual metal awaiting him on his >>return to Oberlin." >>Did you try contacting Oberlin? >Nope, I didn't follow up on this. Nonetheless, NASA is now >admitting that they did analyze debris and it wasn't from a >meteor. >The other important parts of the new story is that it was from a >"Russian satellite," though NASA's own expert ruled this out in >2003 when Leslie Kean checked with him. Nothing orbiting came >down that day in that area. Are you interested in getting samples of the debris for independent testing or are you interested in getting NASA records of the event? If NASA records, then you are likely out of luck because of the distance in time and poor preservation methods used. The original guy who had the boxes sent to storage is likely dead and his "storage forms" thrown out after he died. Even the inventory records would either be discolored/illegible or missing. The box may be mouldering somewhere with thousands of others (its label discolored/fallen off). Its too much to expect a pristine archival of all NASA documents and other items. The best you can do is to actually get permission to go to the archival facility and manually got through every box. If you are interested in getting the debris, the news story also mentioned that Donald Shepherd ,the Spring Valley School principal in Elyria, Oh, was given one of the pieces of debris. Of interest is the following from the article: "Efforts also are bemg made to have the samples studied at Lorain County Community College by officials at Lewis Laboratory of the National Aeronautics and Space Agency at Cleveland Hopkins Airoort and at Case Institute of Technology." So NASA and Case univeristy wanted Lorain Community College to study the samples??? Did the article miss some commas or something? Why would NASA ask a little college to examine the pieces when they have their own equipment? I suspect each group were contacted, so might have samples too. My personal feeling is that a father saw his son looking for the debris and dug out some slag for him to find. From Holland, Michigan newpaper - Dec 11,1965 - other debris found from the episode was: "Officials at Battle Creek Community College said Friday an object about the size of a baseball was found by Mrs. Lloyd Holmes near Battle Creek appeared to be a meteorite. Mrs. Holmes said she found the pock-marked and porous metallic object about 500 feet from her home after seeing something fall into the field. She said the falling object had a fire tail three to four feet long and seemed to explode just before striking the ground." Also from the same paper: "Near Jackson, a Concord boy found a metallic - like object which he said he found smoldering in a fencerow. Roy Root said a fireball passed just over the tree-tops near him and then crashed into the ground. He said that when he first found the rock, it was too hot to touch. Authorities examined the object and said that while some moss seemed to have grown on it, there was a strong sulphur smell. That rock weighed about five pounds and was greenishgrey in color. It too was pockmarked." From Ironwood Michigan Daily Globe - Dec 10, 1965: "Near Jackson 13 year old, Roy Root found a 15 pound metallic object metallic object in a field near his farm home at Concord. He told newsmen the object was in a hole two feet deep and was still hot when it was discovered." From the Kennebec Journal, Augusta, Dec 11, 1965: "Brian Parent and Larry Jones, both 11, of Livonia, Mich., said they picked up a piece of lightweight grayish fused metal about the size of a baseball which fell into a field." Also, various papers indicated an astronomer solicited the public for sighting data, so he might have this data somewhere. His name was "von del chamberlain", an astronomer at Michigan State Univeristy. Of interest are the sightings later in the evening in California - 12:02am - and Idaho - 9:30pm - of meteor-like objects but those are probably not connected to the midwest sightings. The best story I found was in the Valley Independent, Monongahela Valley, Penn, Dec 10, 1965 - it was a UPI story out of Pittsburg, I can see how a legend started: The Mount Pleasant search got underway about 6pm Thursday night after seven residents of Kecksburg, a tiny community of 500, reported seeing a smouldering object crash to the earth. "There's definitely something down there" said one weary state trooper when the search was called off at 1 am. About an hour later, a group of 8 or 9 persons reported they saw a bright, blue light in the woods about 150 feet from where they were standing on a hillside. A state trooper who also saw the light descended the hillside but when he got half way down those standing above said the light disappeared. A full moon hovered over the valley during Thursday night's search while bystanders joked about "little green men" and flying saucers. There were about 25 men in the official search party and 150 onlookers who arrived on the scene before road blocks werre set up to seal off the area. Sources at the Pentagon indicated Thursday they believed the orange flash was a meteorite. Officials at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, refused to speculate about what the object might have been. "A spokesman for the NorthAmerican Air Defense Command at Colorado Springs, Col.,said Norad tracking stations did not track the flash of light but said if it was a meteorite it would have shown up on their radar scopes. National Guard and Air Force personnel both denied early reports that the flash came from a rocket fired in Ohio. Times listed for the sightings were 4:40 p.m. EST in Indiana, 4:44 p.m. EST in Oberlin. Ohio and 4:50 p.m. EST in Erie,Pa. In Columbus, Ohio, a weather observer said he saw an object to the east which looked like a meteor while be was making an observation. "A spokesman at the Federal Air Traffic Control Center in Oberlin said, "so far indications are that it was only one object." Reports of debris falling were also made in Midland,Pa., on the Pennsylvania-Ohio border and in Lorain County,Ohio.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Landahl From: Erik Landahl <landahl1.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:04:01 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 08:50:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Landahl >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:43:08 EST >Subject: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >Nice to see a poll like this. >http://tinyurl.com/96wwu <snip> >Hopefully unlike in the past, one's faith >won't become corrupted to the point of persecuting those with >other viewpoints. <snip> Hello Greg, Therein lies the rub. In the United States, religion has taken several steps down the path of corrupting organized faith; society and government have taken several steps down the path of persecuting those with other viewpoints. Please note that I do not belong to an organized religion but I do believe in God. My fear is not based on an anti-God agenda; it is based on facts.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - From: Erik Landahl <landahl1.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:09:28 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:37:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Radar Reveals Ice Below Martian Surface - Hello List members, Those interested in the existence of water on Mars - underground, seasonal, glacial, primordial, etc. - may find the following article and book to be of interest: "Ancient Oceans, Ice Sheets, and the Hydrological Cycle on Mars," (1991) Nature, 352, pp. 589-94, authors: Baker, V.R.,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Filer's Files #51 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:31:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:46:17 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #51 - 2005 Filer's Files #51 -- 2005 George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International December 14, 2005 Webmaster Chuck Warren www.nationalufocenter.com Merry Christmas to All This week's files cover: Mars - Artificial Pyramid Construction, and Sumerians had knowledge of Solar System, Roswell Letter and Lights on the Moon. In addition, witnesses saw UFOs over Alabama, Arizona, California, Florida, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, and Texas. Many witnesses saw UFOs in Canada, Israel, Puerto Rico and United Kingdom. Photo of disc is courtesy of David Twitchell. The purpose of these files is to report weekly the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world. These Files assume that extraterrestrial intelligent life not only exists, but my hypothesis is that of the over one hundred UFOs reported each week, many represent alien craft. The United States Air Force Project conducted a worldwide investigation of UFOs from 1947 until December 1969, when it disbanded its investigative team. We are continuing the investigation. Artificial Pyramids on Mars There are artificial pyramids on Mars similar but generally much larger and older than those on Earth. Even if you assume a much older age for the estimated 4500 year old Great Pyramid at Cheops, Egypt based on astronomical alignment with Orion, it could be an estimated 10,000 years old. There appears to be a connection between the pyramids on Earth and on Mars. These similarities could be coincidences but it is more likely visitors from Mars came to Earth and taught the art of pyramid building. The pyramids on both Mars and Earth have unifying mathematical themes. They contain values of pi, phi, e, and t values. For example, pi value is incorporated into the base-to- height ratio of the Great Pyramid (1,760 to 280 cubits =3D 2 pi). It's slope angle of 51 degrees 51 minutes 40 second. The cosine of the angel is 0.6179, or equals the golden phi ratio of 1:1.618. It is more than a coincidence that the pyramids are viewed by both ancient Egyptians and Mexicans as gateways to the stars. In both places the ancient peoples had an extraordinary interest in the planet Mars. Both the Great Pyramid and the Mexican pyramid at Palenque were painted in part red and aligned with the rising of Mars. Some claim that the pyramids on Mars are just mountains, with the pyramidal shape created by wind erosion. Prevailing winds are not likely to have shifted periodically with perfect symmetry. NASA also unsuccessfully attempted to produce the pyramid shape in a wind tunnel. They found an airflow can cut a flat surface, but the reversed airflow and associated surface- level turbulence would prevent formation of a perfect pyramid proving that the pyramids on Mars are not natural formations. In addition, most of the pyramids are perfectly aligned with the cardinal directions. Norman Bryden writes, "Take a look at this image of this step pyramid like object on Mars that looks like it was intelligently constructed." You need to enlarge the original best quality image from the links below 4-500% and then break it into sections to get the best resolution. The full image has many structures and areas of interest. I looked at the specification page and the full image is about 3 kilometers across from side to side. That would make the first section below somewhere around three quarters of a mile across. This NASA/JPL image is enlarged and colored. The light markings are three dimensional objects that look like tubes and travel ways. They go up and over and down and under each other. There are bridges and tunnels as well. Some structures straddle the road-like tubes. I have been enlarging sections and there are what look like mounds with tunnels and ramps that look like aesthetically pleasing landscaping. The markings are not random and you can follow the tubes across the full image. I have adjusted the brightness and contrast a bit to help see the structures. In this enlarged section below I have outlined the steps of the pyramid structure in the center of the image. There is a fantastic network of travel ways and structures that can be seen better when the full image is enlarged. Link to NASA Image: www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/full_gif_non_map/R08/R0801749.gif Link to Specification Page: 1.72=B0W 71.70=B0S image centers, Scaled pixel width: 2.91 meters www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/images/R08/R0801749.html Below is the Step Pyramid built by Djoser 46 centuries ago that appears similar to one on Mars Editor's Note: The National Geographic book Ancient Egypt makes some interesting statements in Pyramids: Building for Eternity by I.E.S. Edwards. "The ancient Greeks numbered them among the Seven-wonders of the World. Early Christians tradition identified them as Joseph's granaries, built according to the book of Genesis, in preparation for the seven years of famine. Arab historians linked them with the Biblical flood suggesting that the written wisdom of mankind, found refuge in the imperishable pyramids of Egypt." "Some say that such colossal structures could not have been built with the simple tools of ancient Egypt; the builders must have levitated the huge stones into place by magic, or watched in awe as visitors from outer space lent skills that our scientists have yet to discover. But to Egyptologists there are not mysteries about these great structures, only questions we can not answer" Page 73. King Amunemhet (12th Dynasty Ruler of Egypt) "He sees the Lord of the Horizon sailing in his boat over the sky." The Eye of God for its capstone, a 13 course pyramid defies the ages on the Great Seal of the United States=97whose citizens may not notice the pyramid in their pockets on every dollar bill. The Hieroglyphic inscription on the right below the protecting wing tips of Hours on the pyramid capstone King Amunemhet says "May he be given eternal life" Thanks to National Geographic and Norman Bryden. Sumerians Had Knowledge of Planets Voyager Two, a U.S. interstellar probe launched in 1977, began sending to Earth the first close-ups of planet Neptune in August of 1986. Scientists at a laboratory of jet propulsion in Pasadena, California, found a lot of amazing data while studying the pictures. First, a color scheme of Neptune surprised the researchers because it was bright blue with a few spots of white clouds. Second, a wide inclination angle of the rotation axis of the planet, which indicated a strong magnetic field, ample resources of internal heat, and a liquid core. Voyager enabled us to take a closer look and observe the most distant planets of our solar system? Zechariah Sitchin believes that data from Voyager merely confirms his predictions first published in 1976, a book titled The Twelfth Planet. Sitchin believes that data obtained by the probe agree with the writings of the ancient Sumerians, the writings made 6,000 years ago. The civilization of the Sumerians emerged in Mesopotamia (now a part of Iraq) around 4000 B.C. According to Sitchin, the Sumerians invented a wheel, a furnace for roasting earthenware, and an irrigation system. They used cuneiform writing for putting down their discoveries on clay tablets, statuettes and stone cylinders with mirror engravings of the symbols and drawings. Positive images were produced by rolling the cylinders over the soft clay. [] Sitchin had been studying the Sumerian civilization for more than 30 years. One day he found a rare stone cylinder in a museum of West Berlin. Apart from the image of a god giving a plow to humankind, the cylinder also had a startling chart of the heavens showing the planets with the Sun in the center. In total, the chart contained 12 planets, the Sun and Moon inclusive. The researcher was astounded when he saw the image of Uranus transmitted by Voyager Two in the January of 1986. The Sumerian description of the planet - mash.sig - meaning "bright greenish"- almost matched the greenish blue picture of Uranus on his TV screen. The Sumerian regarded Uranus as Neptune's twin brother. Not unlike Uranus, Neptune's color is bright blue, the planet has a strong magnetic field, a hot semi-liquid core and plenty of water. According to Sitchin, the Sumerians received secret tips from the aliens who the planet Nibiru, the twelfth planet sitting between Jupiter and Mars on that Berlin cylinder. The aliens allegedly visited Earth repeatedly every 3000 years. Thanks to www.newsfromrussia.com Sumerian glass dish similar to many UFO disk reports made in 1400 BC courtesy of Corning Glass Museum Alabama =96 Flying Triangle, ASHVILLE -- I was driving on Highway 11, on a Wednesday night (on or about Nov 15, 2005) around 7:00 PM. I was noticing a light in the sky that appeared to be possibly Mars or Venus, as they are visible this time of year. As I looked, it seemed to be moving slowly. I looked up again, a few seconds after I noticed the very bright lights. There are sometimes military helicopter operations since we are close to a military base. It seemed to be moving closer as I was driving. and suddenly it was practically above me. I looked up and saw it, then at the road, a few seconds later it seemed to be very high in the sky, higher than it was just seconds earlier. A few days later, I saw it again, about 20 miles away from where I saw it the first time. I was on Highway 11 between Steele and Ashville and it moved towards us and we drove directly under it. It was triangular with very bright lights around the perimeter of the craft. It disappeared moments later. I saw it every night for the next couple of weeks but have not seen it for at least a week. I think there is the possibility that it could be a military craft. Thanks to MUFON http://www.mufon.com/ Arizona - Alien Ship Landed In Mountains CASA GRANDE -- The witnesses viewed a saucer that landed in the mountains and took off again on December 8, 2001. The saucer was the size of an aspirin at arm's length with tan or beige exterior lights that flashed sequentially. One witness was using his cell phone at 10:04 AM, and said the devise changed station and became heated. One witness is 68, one is a 45 year old educator, and the last was a 16 year-old male. They saw a transparent dome on the top of the craft. There was transparent or invisible barrier around it. The exterior lights flashed and an emission trail was seen. There was a pulsating sound as the craft landed and took off after one minute. California =96 Strange Craft Seen LA HABRA HEIGHTS -- On December 5, 2005, in the foothills at sunset, I witnessed a cigar shaped object fly over my home. The object was long, brown or black and was followed by a military helicopter, circled a few times and had its spotlight on my house. The object grew larger then reduced its size to a small ball of colored light. The whole episode lasted about 15 minutes. On November 28, in the same area, a white ball of light appeared in the south/east night sky, stayed there for a bout 20 seconds, and then darted across the night sky. Right after that a bright object appeared, stayed motionless for a moment then flew toward the San Gabriel Mountains. Three minutes later, there was another bright flash as the object appeared over Catalina Island and then sped off following the first object. Was this some type of "UFO" cat-n-mouse game? One thing for sure the activity over north Orange County this fall has been heavy and my friends and I have seen some beautiful and amazing things. I looked west and spotted a jet that was near what looked to be a small orange dim star but it was moving along with the nearby jet (roughly 1/2 an inch away. The "star" had pulled to roughly an inch away from the jet and was heading directly towards us, traveling due east. I called out to my husband and he and my father-in-law came outside to watch as the craft flew above us at a relatively low altitude. The jet was about 5 inches behind the craft and we could hear the rumble of its engines and clearly see a contrail. The craft that it was chasing was completely silent and had no contrail. They were low enough that we could make out a dark underbody for the first craft. All we could say was "oh my God." It had a dim orange colored light towards the front with a second dimmer white light towards the middle. I could see what appeared to be a whitish light at the rear of the craft. We could make out a dim outline of the ship itself and it seemed to be narrower towards the front with a much wider back. It was completely silent as it passed over and its lights were much dimmer than the flashing lights of the jet chasing it. We watched it as both passed over our roof. The last time I saw it, it was roughly 8 inches ahead of the jet and then we couldn't see anything but the jet still following. We were all excited but scared, too. Thanks to MUFON http://www.mufon.com/ THOUSAND OAKS --A friend and I were shooting some hoops at a park on November 21, 2005. It was dusk and we were just playing around, having fun at 5:27 p.m. I took a shot and looking up to watch the ball, a triangular shape shot across the sky. My friend also saw it but it only lasted for about a second. It was very high up at around the height of a plane's cruising altitude, I would guess. I saw 3 lights, a bright orange at the top or direction it was flying and 2 neon green lights behind on each side. About 7 or 8 minutes later another darted in the same area. It could not have been a plane judging by its great speed.Thanks to Brian Vike www.hbccufo.com . Florida - Saucer Over 300 Feet JACKSONVILLE -- The witness reports, "I was standing in a parking lot with six other friends talking and just hanging out. The objects all came together and moved in a formation like 2-3- 4-3-2 on June 5, 1968. They moved from the east to west until they were directly above us. Then, they started moving in a figure eight or dog fighting motions. They, then, came back together into the same formation, moved west to east and then flew in all directions. My friends decided to leave. As I watched, I noticed a light moving west that became brighter until I saw a large black and white bull's-eye target. The next moment a blue white saucer flew over at 20 to 100 feet altitude and I was standing there with a bleeding nose and an hour difference in time for it now was 10:45 PM,. One friend came to me and told me he had been there looking for me earlier and couldn't find me. I explained to him that I had not gone anywhere, and then he noticed my bleeding nose. I have no memory of the lost time or the object after seeing the bull's-eye. Thanks to Jack Kentucky =96 Moving Lights On December 10, 2005, I was at a friend's house hanging out when the owner said, "He and other people had seen a UFO, so we went out side and looked and it was there. He said it never appears in the same spot and increases and decreases in intensity and changes colors. It flew high and low and left to right. It looked like a street lamp, but started to move and flew close. Three of us were watching and began to feel uncomfortable. As soon as we said that, a bright ball of light shot over the hill below the original light making a very loud sound. We saw three more of these lights throughout the night. We never fully lost sight of the object until we got in a car and started to drive toward it. Thanks to MUFON Nevada Photos LAS VEGAS -- Scott writes, "I took these photos at the beginning of December. The first images of the glowing golden craft were taken from my job at 5 PM. The other images were taken around the 5th. A jolly green helicopter that has been buzzing over the top of my jobsite every day for a week. There are no military bases near Summerlin. Of course I think there is an underground base at I-215 and Summerlin Parkway, but that's just me. It's strange to see helicopter jolly greens appear out of nowhere. New Jersey =96 Fast moving Object MAPLE SHADE =96 Tom Madden phoned to say, he saw a fast moving object flying towards Philadelphia; saw it for about three or four seconds on December 9, 2005, at from 10:15 to 10:20 PM. It flew faster than any thing he has ever seen with no trajectory at very low altitude. The object appeared over the Cherry Hill area, and he saw other aircraft in the normal landing pattern to Philadelphia airport. It was much larger than commercial jets also flying at the same time. The object did not look metallic but was the largest object in the sky. He does not feel it was a meteor or shooting star. No arc with nothing falling. Thanks to Tom Madden. New Mexico The Roswell Briefing Brian Vike of HBCC UFO Research has been speaking with a Lt. Col, USAF (Ret) who was a F-111 pilot with the 27th Tactical Fighter Wing stationed at Cannon AFB near Clovis, New Mexico from 1973 to August 1977. He sent a letter stating he was one of 48 officers who received the "Roswell Briefing" in June of 1976 at the base. The Lt. Col. writes, "The Roswell Briefing" which I penned in the mid 1990s, was less than 5 minutes in duration.? Most of the information has been well documented in volumes of Roswell lore by the likes of Randle, Schmitt, Friedman, etc. The lone exception perhaps is that the briefing officer mentioned the probable cause of the craft's demise as determined by the USAF Accident Investigation Team . If there is anything significant about all this, it's simply that a USAF intelligence officer, briefing from an official government documents, disclosed to a group of military aircrew members details of an event which officially never happened. The squadron was de- activated and the young intelligence officer left active duty reportedly to accept a position with an intelligence agency at a higher level. The Roswell Briefing was conducted in June 1976 and it was a full 20 years before I jotted down my recollections? Senator Goldwater subsequently confirmed on a morning talk show that he did try to gain access to the now famous Hanger 18. As far as I'm concerned, that alone was enough for me to dispel any doubt about the authenticity of the briefing officer's material.? The two text images can be viewed at: http://www.hbccufo.org/modules.php?name=3DNews =3Darticle =3D3564 Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Texas Flying Triangle TEXARKANA --Last night on November 7, 2005, I dropped off my girlfriend by the store and pulled into my parents back driveway and was sitting there for an hour before I noticed a real bright light. I watched the glow for a couple of minutes and went back to listening to the radio and drinking my beer. About 25 minutes later, the glow went totally black, and at the same time my neighbors security lights went out. The lights stayed off for about two minutes, then popped back on as the glowing object also popped on at the same time. It then began to move sideways very slow untill it was out of my view behind some trees. I got out of my car to watch and it changed direction and glided damn near over my house. It had a triangular shape with rounded edges, with huge windows at the top half of the craft. There was a red light under the craft but it was not flashing like a normal aircraft. It was the size of a hospital. I have been in the military and grew up near an air force base and this wasn't anything that I have seen before. GOES Satellite Catches White Dots Harold Carver writes, "Do you know what all the bright dots are on this image? If they are not electrical or radiation interference, they must be unidentified objects. The image here is from "GOES" East. I see dots of white across the USA. I thought at first it could be static but the animations show movement from east to west. Also they stop at the horizon point of the Earth." http://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/ Thanks to Harold Carver Editor's Note: They are very interesting. In the past we asked Government agencies what similar objects were and we were always told they were dropped pixels. The point is they would never say they are UFOs, even if they are. Radar operators are instructed never to admit UFOs exist, only after they retire do they call and say there were UFOs. If the dots are in the same relative position in various shots the Camera pixels may have burned out or there is transmission problems.. China =96 Square UFO Spotted SHANGHAI -- On November 30, 2005, between 4:30 p.m. and 9:00 p.m., when the majority of Chinese ended their working day, they could observe alien spaceships soaring over the city of Shanghai. A man named Hu was the first to notice a UFO. He said he could observe the UFO within about five minutes close to the ring road in the industrial district of Xinzhuang.[] At 5:00 p.m., Luo saw a shining oval object following to the West in the sky over one of Shanghai=92s old districts. Unfortunately, an attempt to take pictures of the extraterrestrial ships with a digital camera failed. At the same time, another Chinese man named Zhao saw a spaceship of a very strange shape drifting westwards. Chinese Yang saw the most unforgettable sight, a huge orange finger hovering over the road. It happened 15 minutes before Luo and Zhao also spotted UFOs. Soon, the object slowly and majestically drifted eastwards. A 65-year-old patient in a local hospital said he was looking out of the window in his ward on the 13th story when he noticed a huge bright red dish. It stopped right in front of the window at 4:55 p.m., hovered for five minutes in a manner typical of UFOs and then moved away. When it got dark the aliens had to put the lights on and immediately revealed themselves. Liu was the last Chinese who observed the UFO. The man said he saw a square-shaped UFO. At first, he saw a glimmering gold star in the sky; then, the object quickly drew closer and turned into a cube lit with bright lights. The object hovered about five minutes over the man and then whizzed to the south-east. http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/14170_cloud.html Israel - UFO Landing Event Hannan Sabat (ICFUFOR) writes, "Here is the report concerning a UFO landing, which occurred between Sunday and Monday on November 28, 2005. The event occurred in one of the agricultural settlements, between the city of Ramla and the Lod International Airport (central Israel). At 01:30, the witness=92s daughter went to take a shower and heard noises coming from the yard. She turned the lights in the yard on, but she didn't see anything unusual. Dogs were heard barking about 2:30 AM. After 7 AM, the witness=92s wife discovered elliptic signs of imprinting in the yard in hard pressed coarse sand and small stones. The woman called her husband, and he called the police. The police send a team of scouts, and then the police called Mr. Abi Greif (chairman of ICFUFOR)." At first, the dogs didn't want to approach the imprinting, and avoided entering the area. The police scouts, checked the house and its surroundings, but didn't find any clues. They indicated in their report, that it is a case of a UFO, that came from above and probably left in the same direction. They couldn't decide what this object was. Any signs of an object brought there by someone, or signs of a dune buggy or any other vehicles, were rejected by the police. I (Hannan Sabat) arrived to the area about 11 PM, and with the witness=92s help checked the area and photographed the imprinting using a T70 CANON camera, and an AGFA color film, ASA-200). The imprint is about 1.5 =96 2 meters in diameter and has an oval elliptic shape. Extensions, turning outside, where found in the surrounding of the central spiral shape. The imprinting was shallow, about 1-2 centimeters in depth. The imprinting was brighter than the soil around it and some stones were pulled out. Next to the main imprinting, a deep ditch was seen. It was about 10 cm deep and 1-1.5 meters in length. The ditch wasn't seen there before. New soot marks were found on a telephone pole near the ditch. One of the pole's devices was covered with =93V=94-shape marks. The second device (colored metal-gray), was covered with some soot. Some of the grass near the imprinting was covered with a gray dusty material (and thin sand). A plastic rope was found stuck to itself. I took 35 pictures, and the witness made a video footage Thanks to ICFUFOR =96 Israel Center for UFO=92s Research : WWW.GEOCITIES.COM/ICFUFOR footage is =A9 2005 ICFUFOR http://www.hbccufo.org/videos/landingsitevideo_28112005Clip2._ne w.wmv Puerto Rico Disk Came Out of the Sea DORADO -- Eduardo Cerdeiros Gonzalez, and Sonia Felix Maldonado were driving along the Caribbean Sea on the north shore of Puerto Rico on November 11, 2001 at 11:11 PM. The radio sound turned to static and the car lights dimmed. The engine sputtered and stopped. They looked toward the sea and saw a black disk come out the water with pulsating red and orange lights. It flashed it lights heading north and strait up and out of site in about15 seconds. Some other persons like the Puerto Rico Police Department also viewed the incident, and reported to his headquarters. the name of the official is Jaime D. of the Highway Patrol Police. This is an artists conception of the incident. England Scientist Sees UFO. CANNOCK CHASE - Tommy B. writes, "I was with my friend around 11 PM having a routine gang meet up. The others never turned up, so we were laying their and when I turned and all of a sudden a large oval side ways egg shaped object flew across the sky. I pointed out to my friend and he only got the last glimpse. We told our other friends, and they laughed."England. BARKINGSIDE -- Derrel Sims writes that a friend in England reports that on November 6, 2005, they had an unexpected power outage only affecting a small cluster of streets around 6 PM. There was a chorus of chirping alarms and gonging bells from scores of house alarms on a bitterly cold night. My womenfolk had switched the radio on and were not listening when the announcer stated, "It was up there for hours and it was black, and huge, a huge, huge, triangle! 'Does anyone know what it could have been, it was in the sky over Barkingside and it was mega huge, kite shape?' I asked the jabbering women toshut up? The radio says, "Something big was in the sky over the other side of the river today? "Oh My God", my wife exclaims, I meant to say, this afternoon, I saw it, it was HUGE, I forgot to tell you, it was so weird. I elucidated from her that it was in front of her view of Canary Wharf Towers and possibly above the Millennium Dome? She said, It did have 'sharp', that is well defined edges. Whilst all this going on, the VHF broadcast radio station 'LBC' routinely reports the traffic conditions, announces Greenwich is closed, shut down completely to traffic, if anyone knows what's going on call us. Greenwich has been sealed off due to an incident, but we don't know the cause or anything about it, anyone know give us a call. This in itself is strange, due to the obvious lack of liaison with the Police, there are cameras everywhere and many with public, Internet access. There are folks with mobile phones, everywhere too. There is no cancellation of the story, no explanation, it is never mentioned again. Wife's drawing of huge object. [] Later that evening, as I reach the base of the hill, a large silver Mercedes Benz panel van turns right across in front of me. It's a very new, and glassy van, with print on the side, I picked out 'exhibition', huge on the full side of the long van ..."SPACECRAFT" It seems too much of a coincidence that this vehicle should turn up almost on my doorstep following on the sightings of the HUGE black object, and that they NOT be connected. Thanks to Derrel Sims Moon UFOs and LTPS Nick Balaskas writes, "Remember those old white blob moving UFO's on or near the Moon and the flash's of light etc seen through telescopes? Well here they are fully explained for you by recent NASA back research of data from instruments left there in the late 1960/70's; When the Apollo astronauts occasionally kicked up some lunar soil, sometimes they would be surrounded by a persistent cloud of dust or fine particulate matter. This should be impossible since the Moon does not have an atmosphere and everything would fall at the same rate in a vacuum, even in the Moon's smaller gravity. If the dust or fine particulate matter that was kicked up acquired a net charge that was different to the charge on the lunar surface, the electrostatic force of replusion would balance the force of gravity and the particles would hover above the lunar surface. Now, we learn that electostatic storms have been detected at the Moon's terminator, the slowly changing border that separates the dark unlit part of the Moon from the bright sunlit side. As for the discharges from these electrostatic storms being the reason for transient lunar phenomena or TLPs, NASA is wrong. The September 1999 issue of "Sky and Telescope" contained a debunking article titled "The TLP Myth: A Brief for the Prosecution". Although the two authors of this article make mention of the 1968 NASA report "Chronological Catalog of Reported Lunar Events" they ignore the more recent and complete 1978 Cameron report "Lunar Transient Phenomena Catalog" which lists a total of 1468 unexplained lights, objects and events on or in the vicinity of our "dead" Moon dating back to 1540 AD. The total number of observed TLPs I suspect to be much larger since nearly every astronomer I know that has witnessed such short lived or moving lights on the Moon which they could not explain have failed to report them. One simple fact that makes NASA's new theory false is that the majority of TLPs were not observed on the Moon's terminator where these electrostatic storms occur. NASA's theory could easily be tested during total eclipses of the Moon which occur once or more times a year when the entire sunlit surface of the Moon visible from Earth rapidly darkens and stays dark for a while before becoming sunlit again. Although I am not aware of any TLPs reported during eclipses of the Moon, a time when many more people would be watching closely, I would be interested to know if these electostatic storms were detected then too. More recently, independent observers using telescopes have noted the same bright flashes on the dark side of the Moon during meteor showers. These TLPs can easily be explained as the light energy given off during the impact of fast moving meteoroids with the Moon. If Don Wilson's conclusions in his well researched book 'Secrets Of Our Spaceship Moon' are correct, and I have no good reasons or new facts to suspect otherwise, then many of these TLPs could be understood as ET alien activity on our closest neighbor in space, the Moon. Thanks to Nick Balaskas http://tinyurl.com/c42fc Filer's Files: Worldwide Reports of UFO Sightings Major George A. Filer USAF (Ret) & David E. Twichell are happy to announce the release of our new book. If you like Filer's Files newsletter and his monthly report in the MUFON Journal, you'll love the book! It is a collection of some of the most thought provoking UFO sighting and abduction reports from around the world by average citizens, trained observers, astronauts and U.S. presidents. This is a review of many of the best cases in the last several years. The book is $13.95 plus $3.05 tax & shipping Send check to address below or Paypal Subscribe to Filer's Files to receive free CD Your subsriptions do make a difference in my ability to bring you the latest news! So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. George A. Filer has been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. 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UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:14:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:47:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - White >From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:02:26 +1000 >Subject: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET <snip> >Ex-Pollies To Look Out For ET >by Anna Salleh <snip> >"We all recognise this is one hell of a long shot but >nevertheless if they should succeed [to contact us], not only >would it be the greatest discovery in the history of science but >it would throw us all into disarray." Why does Professor Davies say that? I'll bet that virtually everyone with a job would report for work the next day. Such nonsensical statements are the basic reason we don't yet have all the available information about UFOs. The only people who would be thrown into disarray are the people
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:00:46 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:50:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Balaskas >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:43:08 EST >Subject: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >Nice to see a poll like this. >http://tinyurl.com/96wwu >Mind you, if the mad scientists, press, and debunkers had their >way these believers would be locked up in an institution >somewhere for believing in something that has no physical >evidence. >Faith goes a long way. Hopefully unlike in the past, one's faith >won't become corrupted to the point of persecuting those with >other viewpoints. >Sometimes ya' win, sometimes ya' lose. Hi Greg! A few years ago I attended a talk on pseudoscience given by York University psychology Professor and Member, CSICOP Executive Council, James E. Alcock, where he offended his colleagues that believed in God. Alcock could not understand how someone can wear the hat of a critical thinking scientist at a respected teaching and research institution such as ours on weekdays and then put on the hat of a believer by attending the mosque, synagogue, church or temple on weekends. Being both a scientist and believer in the "supernatural" was a contradiction to him and so he concluded that we must be schizophrenic. The existence of God is self-evident to any intelligent thinking person that closely examines this amazing universe of ours and asks "why?". Our great advances in science over the centuries were by such "schizophrenics" since it is these persons that try to better understand the complex mind of the Creator by studying the many intricacies of His creation. The distinguished astronomer Dr. Peter Millman that headed one of Canada's official government investigations into UFOs was also a devout believer in God. So was his close friend Paul Hellyer who was then Minister of National Defense and Deputy Prime Minister. Although both Millman and Hellyer attended the same church in Ottawa on Sundays, Millman distinguished himself as a scientist and Hellyer earned the respect and admiration of his colleagues, even those from other political parties, for being open minded to new concepts and ideas. There are many accounts in ancient texts and oral traditions of non-human beings from the "heavens" that also acknowledge a God. It is also a little known fact that alien abductions have been prevented by invoking the name of this Creator of the universe. Although Project Serpo may or may not be pure science fiction, if true, then it is interesting that these highly intelligent beings from the Zeta Reticuli star system also believe in God. According to "Anonymous", the alleged Defense Intelligence Agency insider, these ETs worship a Supreme Being - a diety related to the universe - and conduct daily services at a building or church they gather at to worship at. If Professor Alcock is correct and the vast majority of us, including our parents, grandparents and ancestors (and those schizophrenic ETs too?) are wrong, he hasn't proven his case which is based more on personal beliefs and biases rather than
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:38:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:58:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - >From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:02:26 +1000 >Subject: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET >Source: ABC - Australian Broadcasting Commission >http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1526555.htm >Friday, 9 December 2005 >ABC Science Online >Ex-Pollies To Look Out For ET >by Anna Salleh >Philosophers and former politicians will soon join an elite >group of scientists whose job it is to work out how to respond >to signals from extra-terrestrial intelligence. >Professor Paul Davies, of the Australian Centre for Astrobiology >at Macquarie University in Sydney, who heads the group, says a >call from ET would raise profound issues that require >consideration from more than "a bunch of gung ho scientists". >"Nothing would be the same again. I think there's no doubt about >that," says Davies, who has just taken up the chair of the SETI: >Post-Detection Science and Technology Taskgroup of the >International Academy of Astronautics. <snip> >"You can imagine that if you had a civilisation that maybe had >10 million years of development, pretty much everything that >they could do would seem like magic to us," says Davies. "Things >like immortality might be very straightforward." >Friend or foe >Davies says some scientists are nervous about replying to a >signal if it announces our existence to aliens with bad >intentions. >But he is more optimistic. >"If they were out there, and they were aggressive and >expansionary, then they would have already been here. We would >have already taken over a long time ago," he says. This is a simple restatement of the Fermi Paradox (paradoxical only when UFO reports are ignored): 1) given the ages of stars and the universe life should have evolved on other planets that are millions or billions of years older than earth 2) assuming intelligent life and knowledge of how to do space travel is a common result of evolution over billions of years, then there ought to be space traveling civilizations 'out there' 3) Given that there are space traveling civilizations... or at least one such, it would take 'only' a few tens of millions of years to colonize our galaxy... or at least to visit every part of it... either with living creatures or with probes 4) Conclude: given the age of the galaxy the probability that there is at least one civilization carrying out space travel and should have reached earth, then... Where _are_ they? (Again I point out that this ignores the implications of UFO sightings. One wonders whether or not the numerous UFO sightings in the late 40's prompted this brief discussion by Fermi and others, or if it simply came "out of the blue"... or black.) Simple solutions to the paradox are: a) they are not out there (we are the onlycivilization in the Milky Way) b) they are out there but: 1) we are quaranteened (no one visits earth) 2) they are here but unrecognizable (or appear identical to us) 3) etc. If UFO reports _are_ allowed then the resolution is n) they are here, we see them occasionally, but because of the 'self-cover-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 New Pennsylvania & Florida UFO Studies From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 01:47:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:01:26 -0500 Subject: New Pennsylvania & Florida UFO Studies Hello again: Still more progress on the new state maps/statistics online work here. I mentioned the first three studies earlier: Calif: http://www.larryhatch.net/CALIF.html Texas: http://www.larryhatch.net/TEXAS.html Ohio: http://www.larryhatch.net/OHIO.html Now, here are two more. Let me know if this is getting tedious! Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware http://www.larryhatch.net/PA.html Florida http://www.larryhatch.net/FLORIDA.html Pennsylvania is out just in time to miss the Kecksburg doings. Oh well. Each of these pages links to the others, so if you find one you found them all so far. More to come. I'm doing these by order of total sightings/listing count, largest first. Like the first 3 states, there are three displays with notes for each. As always, please email if you see factual errors, bad links, typos etc.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 1 In 3 Americans Believe In UFOs? From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 06:19:45 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:07:09 -0500 Subject: 1 In 3 Americans Believe In UFOs? The bulk of this story is about the beliefs of the American People. Primarily their beliefs in God, spirit, angels etc. http://tinyurl.com/bwewk Of note to this List is that 1 in 3 believe in UFOs. What that actually means is unclear as the poll question isn't listed. Yet that's at least close to 100 million people and those are the ones who'll admit it. It's good these polls are being conducted so that we can get an idea of what the people have their attention on.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Catastrophic Failure Of Taum Sauk Upper Reservoir! From: Bob Soetebier <rks1.nul> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:10:38 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:53:42 -0500 Subject: Catastrophic Failure Of Taum Sauk Upper Reservoir! Figured this might interest folks who had read the information I had previously passed along about the past UFO-related activity in this vicinity: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/may/m27-012.shtml My wife and have been going down to Missouri's Johnson's Shut-Ins State Park and Taum Sauk Mtn. (and Sam Baker S.P., which is farther to the south) every year since the late 1970s for bicycling, hiking, camping and swimming. (Before we married, I began going to the Shut-Ins and Sam Baker back in the early 1960s.) At least every other year, we have also traveled to Proffit Mtn. and Taum Sauk Upper Reservoir... stopping at its free (and air- conditioned!) flora/fauna/geology museum. And after that, we'd always proceed on to the top of Proffit Mtn. to walk the final 50 yards up to the top rim-side viewing platform of the upper reservoir. Over at least the last half-dozen year, or more, every time we have gone up to view the upper reservoir we have noticed some not-too-insubstantial water leaks. Those leaks were coming both from the rip-rap rock on the side of the reservoir along the paved-road approach and also just below the area of the paved walkway up to top rim-side viewing platform. Well, we just learned today that the Taum Sauk (Proffit Mtn.) Upper Reservoir had a catastrophic breach/failure early this morning (Wednesday, December 14, 2005) around 5:340 a.m. That sent the 1- & half-billion gallons of water of the Upper Reservoir crashing down with a 20-foot wall of water which has now apparently wiped out Johnson's Shut-Ins S.P. campground along the East Fork of the Black River!!! The park's superintendent's and his family we're asleep when they were swept away by that crashing wall of water. They survived, but, barely: his kids are in critical condition now in a St. Louis hospital; he was found stranded in a tree. A tractor-trailer truck and a dump truck were also swept of the nearby road, too. Fortunately, at least so far, there are no reported fatalities. Thank goodness this disaster did not occur earlier in the year when literally thousands of people are camping, swimming and canoeing along the Black River. My wife and I were swimming in the Black River the week after Labor Day. You can read a preliminary "St. Louis Post-Dispatch" story - with a picture of what is left of the park's superintendent's home (nothing left but the foundation) - at this URL: http://tinyurl.com/8mj3p Here's the URL for a Post-Dispatch map of the area: http://tinyurl.com/cfks2 And here's a URL for an excellent 3-D topographic view of both the upper (Proffit Mtn.) and lower Taum Sauk reservoirs, along with the proximity of Johnson's Shut-Ins S.P.: http://tinyurl.com/8jplf There was a brief report on TV news earlier that there had been a "minor" earthquake detected (by not noticeable without instrumentation) somewhere in Missouri - they didn't pinpoint the location - around midnight last night... but they noted that "they" - 'experts' - thought it was too "minor" to have been
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 UFOs ET's And You From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:09:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:09:39 -0500 Subject: UFOs ET's And You Source: Alternative Perceptions Magazine - Memphis, Tennessee, USA http://www.mysterious-america.net/encounters1205.html December 14, 2005 UFOs, ET's And You by Tom Dongo Spending a great deal of time as I do in UFO & alien research, extraordinarily odd things happen to me and around me. I sometimes wonder if something "out there" plays games with me, just for the hell of it, of course. Two examples of this are the following incidents. There have been many. Several years ago, I was spending an evening at a friend's house and they had a visitor from out of state. Their visitor was, in my estimation, not particularly well-grounded in reality. The fellow had heard that I was doing UFO research and began to tell me of some of the things he had been experiencing on a fairly regular basis. It became quickly evident that the man was, for the most part, living in a fantasy world that he had created for himself. I always listen to whatever someone has to say about paranormal activity because even people who are not mentally balanced will often have clear perception into areas a "normal" person might not. I have interviewed persons who were paranoid schizophrenic and even (and perhaps particularly) these people will have flashes of brilliance or insight into paranormal worlds that are quite extraordinary. Thus I listen carefully to anyone who has an unusual story. The fellow went on about his experiences. When I noticed that the hour was late, I said that I needed to go home and he asked if I could drop him off downtown. I agreed, and on the way he continued to elaborate on his fantastic experiences. It was really getting heavy for me, because some of the stuff he was talking about was really crazy. It involved ET's. I took him to his destination and dropped him off. I turned the car around and headed home. At the intersection of Hwy. 89A and Hwy. 179, I was waiting for the light to change (it was almost midnight, no traffic at all). Looking to my right, I saw a man standing with his thumb out, gesturing aggressively for a ride. I thought it very odd that I had not seen him before. He was really giving me the "Come on, buddy, how about a ride?" look. Being a charitable sort, I waved him over. He jumped into the car just as the light changed. It was right then that things got extremely bizarre. Nothing takes me by surprise, but this did. We hadn't even gotten through the intersection when he picked up exactly the same crazy conversation that the man I had just dropped off had been carrying on. I mean exactly where the other guy had left off. I took a close look at my passenger. He looked to be in his twenties. He had jet-black, shoulder length hair and black eyes. He hadn't taken his eyes off me since he got into the car. His right arm held a fully stuffed army duffle bag, which he placed on the floor between his knees. We had gone only about two hundred yards when he suddenly changed the subject. Still looking at me with those piercing eyes, he said, "Look at me!" He said it twice. I looked casually at him, then resumed looking straight ahead. Then he shouted it. Loud. "Look at me!" I turned and looked at him again, more than a bit perturbed. He asked, "Have you ever seen me before?" to which I replied no. Then he asked, as if he knew the answer, "Do you know who I am?" I warily shook my head in response. Then he added, still intently staring at me, "My name is John" (not the name he gave me). "Can you remember that?" he commanded. I nodded. Then he went on, "Remember this also: John- -I.M.E.T.--Circle K. Repeat that back to me," he demanded. I did, and made vivid mental notes of everything he said and did. He insisted I repeat them back to him several times. Then he said, "If you remember those three things and repeat them three times you can have anything you want." About a hundred red lights lit up in my mind at that point. I am not gullible and I am not a greedy fool. I began to wonder nervously who he really was, but I couldn't come to a rational conclusion. I've known of ET contactees who had similar offers and usually ended up paying a very dear price for their greed and foolhardiness. We continued down Hwy. 89A for a while. He asked if I would drop him off behind the Pizza Hut. I pulled into a spot where the streetlights were bright. I wanted to keep a sharp eye on him. I was also watching my wristwatch closely in case I had any missing time. There wasn't any. He squeezed out with his large duffle bag, and with the door still open, he stuck his head back in and said that he had something in his duffle that would be of great interest to me. He asked if I would like to see what it was. "No, no! That's okay," I replied, quickly adding that it was late and someone was waiting up for me. He nodded his head and I drove out onto the highway. He was still standing under the light watching me. I have wondered many times who he was. I never saw him again. In May that year I met a southern California woman who wanted to be taken to Bell Rock. We went there and I was describing some of the odd things that happen in that area. We were standing at its base when she remarked, "Do you see that object coming from behind Bell Rock, near the top?" I strained my vision and saw nothing. Moments later I glanced again and saw what appeared to be a fully inflated 30 gallon garbage bag, carried along, high, by a strong breeze. But what was strange to me was that this bag was moving at a steady northerly speed and was not being changed in size or shape by the shifting wind currents. I replied to her, "Yeah, I see it now." We made some casual remarks about it and continued to observe it. I took out my binoculars for a better look at the bag. With the binoculars it could be clearly seen. We traded the binoculars back and forth, watching the object. She passed the field glasses back to me and I brought them up to where the bag should have been. I didn't locate the bag immediately, so searched around the sky with the binoculars still at my eyes. What I finally found in the sky was a very curious object. Instead of a green garbage bag blowing in the wind, I saw a boomerang-shaped object surrounded by a ten foot thick brown haze about fifty feet wide. The (boomerang-shaped) object was making unusual maneuvers. It would stop, turn on its axis, or flip over and change direction abruptly. I watched the object for two or three minutes. I didn't mention it to my companion because at the time I really thought it was a hawk or a buzzard. I looked again, found the bag and watched it disappear in a climbing, northerly course. We didn't say anything more about it until later in the afternoon. I was running the incident back through my mind. Something seemed awfully weird about the whole thing. I turned to her and said, "You know there was something really strange about that garbage bag we were watching this morning." She stared back at me with a blank expression. After a few moments she replied quizzically, "What garbage bag?" It was my turn to look blankly at her. "The one we watched with the binoculars blowing past Bell Rock." To my surprise, she answered with no hesitation, "I never saw a garbage bag. What I saw was a boomerang-shaped object with a brown haze around it. I thought that was what you saw all along." I quizzed her further; it seems that while I was looking at a green garbage bag, she saw the same object as a flying boomerang. I can't even begin to come up with a sensible explanation for that one! Editor's Note: Mr. Dongo lives in Sedona, Arizona. See an interview with Mr. Dongo in the August issue of Alternate Perceptions. This report was posted at:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Living With Aliens From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:14:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:14:02 -0500 Subject: Living With Aliens Source: The Guardian - London, UK http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/science/story/0,,1564973,00.html Thursday September 8, 2005 Comment Why go to Mars - the answer to one of the biggest questions in the universe might be right under our noses? Living With Aliens by Paul Davies The US space agency NASA has resumed its search for life on Mars with the launch of the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. NASA's mantra for seeking life beyond Earth is "follow the water", and Mars seems to have lots of it, albeit mostly frozen into ice or permafrost. Just this Monday a US scientist told the British Association festival of science that the sands of Mars could contain up to 50% snow and ice. One fact that is often glossed over, however, is that water may be a necessary condition for life, but it is far from sufficient. Nobody has a clue about how life may emerge from non-living substances, and what else might be needed. Because even the simplest living cell is immensely complex, the odds of such a thing forming by chance are virtu ally zero. If that's the way it happened, then life is a freak phenomenon, and we will almost certainly be alone in the universe. However, the search for life beyond Earth, which underpins the burgeoning field of astrobiology, is based on a belief that chance played only a subordinate role. Instead, some sort of "life principle" is envisaged to be at work in the universe, coaxing matter along the road to life against the raw odds. The Nobel prize-winning biologist Christian de Duve has dubbed the life principle "a cosmic imperative". Attractive though that may be, there is no direct evidence that the laws of nature are slanted in favour of life. If we found life on Mars or some other planet, and could prove it started from scratch independently of life on Earth, it would bolster the idea of a life principle. Meanwhile it remains an act of faith. De Duve thinks life will emerge more or less automatically on all Earth- like planets. But no planet is more Earth-like than Earth itself. If life is indeed a cosmic imperative, we might expect it to have started many times over on our home planet. Biologists insist that all known life stems from a single origin. Each species represents a branch on the great tree of life that derives from a universal common ancestor. Support for this view comes from the fact that many specific, complicated features of organisms, such as their genetic code, are the same in all identified species and would be most unlikely to have evolved independently more than once. But there is a flaw in this reasoning. The vast majority of organisms are microbes, and you can't tell much about their innards simply by looking. Microbiologists have developed ways of sequencing the genes of microbes to position them on the tree of life, but the procedure often doesn't work. Because these techniques are customised to identify life as we know it, they wouldn't work with life-as-we-don't-know-it. So how can we be sure that the world about us isn't seething with alien bugs? I began researching this with Charles Lineweaver at the Australian National University. We identified several ways in which multiple genesis episodes might have left traces in Earth's geological or biological record. The real prize would be the identification of a truly alien microbe right under our noses. But how would we spot such a thing amid the welter of familiar life? A possible answer was provided by my wife Pauline, a science journalist. To make proteins, organisms use amino acids, whose molecules resemble left-handed gloves. Look at them in a mirror and they would be right-handed. The right-handed forms are not hard to make, but life does not use them. The best explanation for this preponderance of left-handed amino acids is that it represents a frozen accident: early on in the genesis process, a random choice was made and life got stuck with it. But if there were a second genesis, then the odds are 50-50 that the opposite choice would be made. This "mirror life" might resemble "our" life in most important respects, but not in its handedness. And because left and right-handed life couldn't mix, mirror life would peacefully co-exist with our form of life. There is a NASA project in the Atacama Desert. Here, the soil is so dry conditions are as close as you can get to those on Mars. To test for signs of life, the scientists soak the desert soil with nutrient soup to see if they get a reaction. Then they repeat with anti-soup - the same stuff, but made from mirror molecules. If the soil reacts the same way to both, biology can be ruled out as the cause. So Pauline suggested we do an experiment with a bowl of anti- soup, dropping in various microbes to see whether some of them multiply. Known life would find anti-soup unpalatable, but it might be manna to a mirror microbe. The experiment is now under way at NASA's Marshall Spaceflight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. This is undeniably a long-shot, but a positive result would be a stupendous discovery, with the potential to confirm the cosmic imperative hypothesis. If it is true that life has arisen more than once on Earth, it is likely to have emerged on Earth-like bodies all across the galaxy and beyond. So without even leaving our home planet, we would have the answer the biggest of the big questions of existence: are we alone? Paul Davies is a physicist at the Australian Centre for Astrobiology and the author of The Origin of Life
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: 'Project SERPO' Sent U.S. Military To Another From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:07:59 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:52:41 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Project SERPO' Sent U.S. Military To Another UFO UpDates wrote: >Source: American Chronicle - Beverly Hills, California, USA >http://tinyurl.com/88q5u >December 13, 2005 >Alleged 'Project SERPO' Sent U.S. Military Team To Another >Planet? >By Steve Hammons >In recent weeks, information has surfaced on the Web about an >alleged U.S. Government military project called "Project SERPO". >We've all heard about reports of unusual and unconventional >secret government projects. Some of them seem so far out that >you wonder if they are real or an "urban legend" floating >around. <snip> >Of course, it could all be bunk. There may be no truth to it at >all. Probably not. Right? Well, unless someone, somewhere emerges with something tangible, credible, it's just more flatulence in the wind. We're swimming in too many 'stories' with no substantial data that it's just a diversion until something soups up. If someone feels it's worthy of their time to pursue, good for them. We're all guilty of a bit of theorizing but it's gotten so far beyond that it's like standing on fog.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:53:49 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:57:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - McGonagle Hi Don, List, >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:46:10 -0400 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:38:05 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article <snip> >No kidding... he's actually got feathers? No wonder he gets >upset with Jerry about those pelican shots. John Rimmer gets very nervous around Christmas - he has been mistaken for a turkey on occasion, and was once impaled on a Christmas tree when someone mistook him for an angel! >>I also fail to understand why in the order of 20 percent of a >>lengthy article harps on about an inscrutable comment made by >>perhaps one of the most reviled politicians in British >>history, before re-hashing the clich=E9 of Rendlesham. >Limited the power of trade unions. Works for me, and I've been >in three. I have to confess I admired many of her policies, but disagreed with the way in which they were implemented. I think it was the implementation that created such a widespread dislike of her. >>(I also note that it has been rehashed twice on-List within a >>short period as well). >Rendlesham or the "You can't tell the people" phrase? Actually, the entire initial post from Nick was duplicated, first at: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/nov/m28-002.shtml and again at: http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/dec/m09-018.shtml One could draw the conclusion that Nick was dissatisfied with the responses to the original post, or that he is trying to attract as much attention to the event as possible in order to promote himself, and subsidise his Christmas budget. <snip> >>Isn't it great to know that the defence of the realm is in >>such skilfull, motivated, conscientious and thorough hands - >>this is the only reason that I feel safe going to bed at >>night, secure in the knowledge that the brave boys of the >>Civil Service are on the ball, complete with the full >>resources of the massive "UFO Project" team (would that be a >>battalion, regiment, or division sized unit?). >I think you expect too much from the store front display, Joe. >Neither you or I has any real concept of what's going on top >floor offices. It wouldn't surprise me at all if some enterprising member of the public stumbled across some "top floor" information (purely by accident of course) which Nick is currently fully aware of but unable to discuss because of the Official Secrets Act. It might have been mis-filed in a folder about pensions for instance, and forgotten about. We shall have to see.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:20:44 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:58:52 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:03:51 +0000 >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:12:12 -0600 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>I'm wondering why Hellyer is going public with his theory now >>instead of when he was the Defence Minister. Will he be sharing >>all kinds of "secrets" he learned while in office now that he is >>free to share all this other information with us? I mean, you'd >>expect a _Defence Minister_ to be able to keep his mouth shut >>for national security reasons. So what makes "loose lips" OK now >>that he is no longer a Defence Minister? Can you imagine Donald >>Rumsfield, Gen. Pace, Condoleezza Rice or even Pres. Bush going >>public talking about UFOs and 'alien warfare' when they are no >>longer in office? Nope, it just doesn't make sense, >>unless...it's part of a disinformation campaign. >It couldn't just be that he's gone a bit barmy in his old age, >could it? >>I don't know how they do things in Canada but here in the States, >>current or former government officials who "lose it" usually jump >>out windows from tall buildings or take naps in cars connected to >>the exhaust. (I'm joking, of course...ha-ha) The fact that Hellyer >>has been allowed to continue sharing his theories with the world >>makes me think someone _wants_ him to do so either to make a fool of >>himself, spread disinformation or perhaps sound the alarm. I >>seriously doubt the Canadian or US governments are just giggling >>behind his back or ignoring him. >I strongly suspect that that is exactly what is happening. Do >you have any evidence - empirical evidence - otherwise? I suspect John is right on this one. Canada does have freedom of speech after all, and there is absolutely no reason for the kind
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:25:55 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:01:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - McGonagle >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:53:09 +0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:38:05 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article <snip> >>Isn't it great to know that the defence of the realm is in such >>skilfull, motivated, conscientious and thorough hands - this is >>the only reason that I feel safe going to bed at night, secure >>in the knowledge that the brave boys of the Civil Service are on >>the ball, complete with the full resources of the massive "UFO >>Project" team (would that be a battalion, regiment, or division >>sized unit?). [Note - Just picture the above words spoken in that annoying, crisp English accent in Pathe News style, with the massed bands of the Royal Marines playing "Land of Hope and Glory" in the background - it brought a smile to my face! - Joe] >Joe, >As a UK observer, with knowledge of our "civil service" I reckon >Nick Pope has been treading a narrow tightrope; >balancing his own desire to sell books, based on so-called >insider knowledge of the mysterious "UFO Project" inside UK's >bureaucracy; >against his own certain knowledge that any civil servant or >agent who tells the truth against the wishes of his bosses will >_not_ draw a bureaucrat's pension (one way or another). Hi Ray, List, If I read you correctly, I agree with what you are saying, but in the opposite sense - Nick appears to me to be trying to exaggerate his role as much as possible without embarrassing the MoD to the point where they are obliged to take some form of disciplinary action against him. I'm uncertain as to how the FoIA would apply to a Civil Servant with inside knowledge making FoIA applications to a department which they used to work in, but there is nothing to prevent Nick from prompting a friend to make such a request supposedly independently, if there was anything that he was aware of that would demonstrate the true level of interest from the MoD in UFOs. Nick makes a great deal of the fact that he has signed the Official Secrets Act. This is somewhat misleading as well, though. Everyone in the UK is subject to the act, whether they have signed it or not. If an enterprising member of the public discloses something which ought to remain classified they can be prosecuted under the Act, even if they haven't signed it. I have signed it at least 3 times, on joining the Army as a junior soldier, again on my 18th birthday, and again on discharge from the Army. I can't specifically remember, but I think that there were occasions in between when I carried out particular duties that I had to sign it as well. The only reason that the military (and other "official" bodies, eg the police and university departments or conractors involved in work for the government) are required to sign it is to emphasise the point and remove any possible defence of ignorance if they contravene the Act.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:30:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:02:39 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:03:51 +0000 >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:12:12 -0600 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>I'm wondering why Hellyer is going public with his theory now >>instead of when he was the Defence Minister. Will he be sharing >>all kinds of "secrets" he learned while in office now that he is >>free to share all this other information with us? I mean, you'd >>expect a _Defence Minister_ to be able to keep his mouth shut >>for national security reasons. So what makes "loose lips" OK now >>that he is no longer a Defence Minister? Can you imagine Donald >>Rumsfield, Gen. Pace, Condoleezza Rice or even Pres. Bush going >>public talking about UFOs and 'alien warfare' when they are no >>longer in office? Nope, it just doesn't make sense, >>unless...it's part of a disinformation campaign. >It couldn't just be that he's gone a bit barmy in his old age, >could it? >>I don't know how they do things in Canada but here in the States, >>current or former government officials who "lose it" usually jump >>out windows from tall buildings or take naps in cars connected to >>the exhaust. (I'm joking, of course...ha-ha) The fact that Hellyer >>has been allowed to continue sharing his theories with the world >>makes me think someone _wants_ him to do so either to make a fool of >>himself, spread disinformation or perhaps sound the alarm. I >>seriously doubt the Canadian or US governments are just giggling >>behind his back or ignoring him. >I strongly suspect that that is exactly what is happening. Do >you have any evidence - empirical evidence - otherwise? There are people who want him to speak out. Think Michael Salla and Alfred Webre and the other exopolitical guys in Canada. Remember that for some of these people, evidence doesn't matter. Won't hurt the sales of the book Hellyer is working on either.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - McGonagle From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:43:15 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:04:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - McGonagle Hello List, Nick, It would seem that I owe Nick an apology. In an earlier post I wrote: >Actually, the entire initial post from Nick was duplicated, first >at: >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/nov/m28-002.shtml >and again at: >http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/dec/m09-018.shtml >One could draw the conclusion that Nick was dissatisfied with the >responses to the original post, or that he is trying to attract >as much attention to the event as possible in order to promote >himself, and subsidise his Christmas budget. On closer inspection of those posts, it appears that Nick only sent it to the List once, but some quirk of the system caused it to be sent out twice. Please accept my humble apologies for this misunderstanding Nick.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Boone From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:08:05 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:05:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Boone >From: Erik Landahl <landahl1.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:04:01 -0800 >Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:43:08 EST >>Subject: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >>Nice to see a poll like this. >>http://tinyurl.com/96wwu ><snip> >>Hopefully unlike in the past, one's faith >>won't become corrupted to the point of persecuting those with >>other viewpoints. ><snip> >Hello Greg, >Therein lies the rub. In the United States, religion has taken >several steps down the path of corrupting organized faith; >society and government have taken several steps down the path >of >persecuting those with other viewpoints. Please note that I do >not belong to an organized religion but I do believe in God. My >fear is not based on an anti-God agenda; it is based on facts. Erik, the U.S. isn't the only country involved in such things. Matter of fact, we're the new kid on the block. Originally the Pilgrims came here to escape persecution. That led to our laws being constructed to respect a person's right to worship, yet prevent one religion from dominating all. Religion is fine. It's fantastic, yet when it involves murder and oppression and domination it's wrong. I don't care what it espouses. In regard to ufology, the mechanics that send religions off kilter are the same mechanics that send ufology off kilter or any area of debate or social structure. It's just the way we're built when in conflict with one another's beliefs, conclusions, and observations. Arrogance, fear, and elitism are the worst. Is what you believe due to your own self determinism, observation and conclusion, or because they were forced upon you? Many people report they've seen or experienced things out of the norm. They or someone they trust interpreted their experience as something in the realm of ufology. Some don't. Fantastic things happen to us in life and we sometimes turn to those whose opinions we trust to help us sort things out. The poll having listed 98% believing in a God shows that the majority of us has experienced something that validates that. I can jump up and testify there's a God every time I'm able to navigate the horrendous traffic on the highway here in Los Angeles. A thousand times a day I thank God for things. A hundred million miracles! I don't care if someone believes me or not. It's my life and experience. Yet if another validates me, we've got something to share. In the UFO arena, we have many, many people who do validate one another and there's data a scientist with a level head can observe and test. Big difference. Finally, the big goodie about the poll is that people don't care what the press or science says. They believe in a God and that's fine with them. No one in law or government in their right mind is going to argue because those big religious dollars fuel the economy. I've always wondered why Christians who dominate the economic realm in the U.S. don't pool their resources and demand the changes they often whine about. It'd take all the Christians in the U.S. less than 72 hours to bankrupt the planet if they all boycotted.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:36:57 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:07:34 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:37:01 -0500 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:40:03 -0800 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>Corso only says that he took his information to Paul Scott >>and it was Scott's article that brought the issue into public >>consciousness and forced JFK to act. Corso never claimed that >>JFK's intelligence was faulty, only that he wouldn't act on >>it and force the missles from Cuba. He had to once it became >>public. >This is, as far as I know, what history - including the >transcripts of White House meetings - doesn't support. Doesn't >matter whether Corso's name appears in those discussions or not. >I don't think there's anything there that shows public pressure >forced JFK to act. >But maybe my information is faulty. If someone produces evidence >from mainstream historical sources, saying that JFK didn't act >until Scott's article appeared, then I'm wrong. Hi Greg, I'm not suggesting that Corso was correct in his assessment of the situation regarding JFK and Cuba during the missile confrontation. I was only pointing out that Corso described his own role accurately. He was given top secret information from intelligence sources and contacts about the missile presence in Cuba and he presented this information to Senator Keating and Representative Feighan. With their approval, Corso leaked this information to Paul Scott who was the first reporter to publicly reveal the nuclear threat we were all facing. There is evidence that JFK was intending to invade Cuba on the 20 th of October. He was given the U2 photos on the 16th of October. The hard evidence photos changed his plans. We don't know how the Scott article altered history, but Corso's part is clear and it shows that he was deeply connected to the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:12:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:11:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - Ledger >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:59:18 -0400 >Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET >>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:02:26 +1000 >>Subject: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET >>Source: ABC - Australian Broadcasting Commission >>http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1526555.htm >>Friday, 9 December 2005 >>ABC Science Online >>Ex-Pollies To Look Out For ET >>by Anna Salleh >>Philosophers and former politicians will soon join an elite >>group of scientists whose job it is to work out how to respond >>to signals from extra-terrestrial intelligence. >>Professor Paul Davies, of the Australian Centre for Astrobiology >>at Macquarie University in Sydney, who heads the group, says a >>call from ET would raise profound issues that require >>consideration from more than "a bunch of gung ho scientists". ><snip> >What a splendid example of why I refer to the cult of SETI: >Charismatic Leadership, very strong dogma,strong resistance to >outside ideas, greatly enlarged notion of their own importance. >So astrophysicists are experts on the behavior of civilizations?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Secrecy News -- 12/15/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:51:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:13:42 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 12/15/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 114 December 15, 2005 ** PENTAGON WILL REVIEW DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE PROCEDURES ** BUSH ISSUES EXECUTIVE ORDER ON FOIA ** FOIA EXEMPTIONS FOR OPERATIONAL FILES CONTESTED ** HOUSE VOTES TO REJECT CRUEL TREATMENT OF DETAINEES ** ARMY PSYOP PLANNING GUIDE ** OPEN SOURCE CENTER ANALYSIS: A SAMPLE PENTAGON WILL REVIEW DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE PROCEDURES In response to mounting concern over the conduct of domestic military surveillance, the Department of Defense said that it will review its database of domestic threat reports to ensure that information regarding U.S. citizens is not illegally retained. The announcement followed the disclosure by NBC News and The Washington Post that lawful political activities of American citizens had been archived in a Department of Defense database and cited as a "threat." "There is nothing more important to the U.S. military than the trust and good will of the American people," according to the December 14 Pentagon statement. "The Department of Defense values that trust and goodwill and consequently views with the greatest concern any potential violation of the strict DoD policy governing authorized counter- intelligence efforts and support to law enforcement." See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/12/dod121405.html Significantly, the Pentagon was moved to respond by an unauthorized disclosure in the press, not by congressional oversight, which seems inert or even complicit in expanding domestic surveillance. See "Is the Pentagon spying on Americans?" from NBC News, December 14: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/ The threat database document which triggered the Pentagon response was obtained by Washington Post blogger William Arkin. http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/ BUSH ISSUES EXECUTIVE ORDER ON FOIA President Bush issued an executive order yesterday to improve the processing of Freedom of Information Act requests. The order would require executive branch agencies to name a Chief FOIA Officer, and to establish FOIA Requester Service Centers to assist members of the public in gaining information about the status of their requests. The order provides some positive reinforcement to the FOIA process, but fails to come to grips with the underlying defects of Bush Administration information policy. "The effective functioning of our constitutional democracy depends upon the participation in public life of a citizenry that is well informed," the President said. "For nearly four decades, the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) has provided an important means through which the public can obtain information regarding the activities of Federal agencies." But it is dumbfounding to say, as the President does in the Order's first requirement, that "in responding to a FOIA request, agencies shall respond courteously and appropriately." A lack of courtesy has never been the problem. FOIA processing has bogged down in the Bush Administration for several more substantive reasons. One is that many agencies now require members of the public to file formal FOIA requests rather than simply providing the information upon request. Another problem is that there has been a wholesale removal of information from many government web sites, so that it is necessary to file FOIA requests in order to recover that information. In most cases, records that have been withdrawn from the web (like the U.S. Army Weapons System Handbook, for example) are eventually released when requested under FOIA. But their initial removal from online access typically adds months of delay and hundreds of dollars to the disclosure process in each case. The Bush order does not address these root issues of disclosure policy. See Executive Order 13392 (as it will be designated upon publication in the Federal Register) on "Improving Agency Disclosure of Information," December 14, 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/eo-13392.htm FOIA EXEMPTIONS FOR OPERATIONAL FILES CONTESTED Congress is poised to carve out a new exemption from the Freedom of Information Act for so-called "operational files" of the Defense Intelligence Agency. That would be a mistake, argued Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA), in a letter to the chairmen of the House and Senate Armed Services Committees. DIA has demonstrated over the years that valuable intelligence records can be released under the FOIA without compromise of secret intelligence sources, Rep. Waxman observed. "New [FOIA] exemptions should not be created lightly, especially in the absence of a hearing record that demonstrates the need for an exemption," he wrote. http://www.democrats.reform.house.gov/story.asp?ID=985 Meanwhile, the National Security Archive petitioned a federal court for leave to file an amicus brief in the FOIA lawsuit Aftergood v. National Reconnaissance Office, in which the NRO has refused to disclose unclassified budget files, claiming that they are exempted "operational files." The court's decision in this case "will have implications for a broad swathe of the public," argued Meredith Fuchs, general counsel of the National Security Archive, and "this is a case of first impression." See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/nro-cbjb/nsa121205.pdf The court granted the Archive's motion, and ordered that an amicus brief be filed by January 9. HOUSE VOTES TO REJECT CRUEL TREATMENT OF DETAINEES The House of Representatives voted to endorse a provision advanced by Sen. John McCain that would prohibit "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment of persons under custody or control of the United States Government." The measure was approved by a veto-proof majority of 308-122. Among the 122 Representatives who opposed the anti-torture provision were Rep. Pete Hoekstra, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, and Rep. Duncan Hunter, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. They did not explain their opposition during the December 14 floor debate. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_cr/torture121405.html ARMY PSYOP PLANNING GUIDE The nuts and bolts of conducting tactical psychological operations (PSYOP) are set forth in a new Army guide for military planners and commanders. "PSYOP Soldiers may require an interpreter to effectively communicate with the local populace. Guidance on how to select an interpreter, what to do and not do when using an interpreter, and how to work with the interpreter is provided on pages 28 through 31." See "Psychological Operations Leaders Planning Guide," November 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/psyopplan.pdf OPEN SOURCE CENTER ANALYSIS: A SAMPLE The Director of National Intelligence Open Source Center is busily churning out products for government consumers who care to make use of them. "Many OSC products are purely internal analyses, not simply translations," one registered user told Secrecy News. "Now they even have a bunch of blogs. I have no time to look at any of it anymore, but the system obviously has received an infusion of money lately." One recent publication, styled an "OSC Analysis," is a profile of Al Manar, the Lebanese Hizballah television station. "Al-Manar continues its negative treatment of the United States but has dropped the more incendiary anti-US material seen in the past.... Al-Manar's reporting on Iraq adopts a critical tone toward US policies and actions but [also] condemns insurgent bombings targeting Iraqi civilians.... Al-Manar refers to Iraqis killed by both American forces and insurgents as 'martyrs' and highlights popular Iraqi opposition to such acts." See "OSC Analysis: Al-Manar Promotes 'Resistance,' Tones Down Anti-US Material," Open Source Center, December 8, 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2005/12/osc120805.html Eliot A. Jardines, the new Assistant Deputy Director of National Intelligence for Open Source, will speak January 17 at the annual conference of Open Source Solutions (www.oss.net/iop). _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Australian UFO Interviews On-Line From: Bill Chalker <bill_c.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 00:06:04 +1100 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:16:37 -0500 Subject: Australian UFO Interviews On-Line Paul Mervin does a weekly radio interview programme for Geelong Victoria (Australia) based radio station 94.7 The Pulse FM which focuses on mysteries. The interviewees include Diane Harrison, Stanton Friedman, Rex Gilroy, Lloyd Pye, Whitley Strieber and Linda Moulton Howe. Each Wednesday at 3.30 pm his interviews are aired and then posted on the web at: http://www.947thepulse.com/programming/mysteries/index.html Paul did an interview with me focusing on my new book Hair Of The Alien. It was aired on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 and is now available via the above web address. In his introductory remarks Paul Mervin said, "(Bill Chalker's) book The OZ Files - the Australian UFO story is one of the best publications on the subject to ever come out of this country. He now has a new book, an incredible book - Hair Of The Alien - Dna And Other Forensic Evidence Of Alien Abduction. This groundbreaking investigation has brought forward a holy grail of the UFO field - genuine biological forensic evidence of an alien abduction."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 UK UFO Sighting Watch The Video From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:25:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:25:04 -0500 Subject: UK UFO Sighting Watch The Video Source: The Huddersfield Daily Examiner -Yorkshire, UK http://tinyurl.com/7lnga Dec 15 2005 UFO Sighting Claim - Watch The Video A Crosland Moor woman has captured images of a strange object in the skies above Huddersfield. Now she is hoping someone can identify the object, which she saw on Monday afternoon. Teresa Millward, 28, of Crosland Moor, said: "It was very strange and slow-moving. It was shaped a bit like a triangle. "I watched it travelling into the distance over the town, then it returned and seemed to move sideways." She added: "I thought it was a hang glider or a balloon, but when it came closer I could see it was neither of those things." eresa photographed the UFO using a digital camera and recorded its movements on video. Teresa, who is in a wheelchair while recovering from an accident on holiday in New Zealand, described the sighting as "very unnerving". She said: "I am not a believer in UFOs, but I have no idea what this was. "I thought I must be hallucinating, until I saw some people outside stopping and pointing at it." Several Examiner readers reported UFO sightings over Christmas last year.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:47:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:20:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Ledger >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:00:46 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:43:08 EST >>Subject: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >>Nice to see a poll like this. >>http://tinyurl.com/96wwu <snip> >If Professor Alcock is correct and the vast majority of us, >including our parents, grandparents and ancestors (and those >>schizophrenic ETs too?) are wrong, he hasn't proven his case >which is based more on personal beliefs and biases rather than >on solid scientific facts. Sorry Nick, I'm with Alcock on this. "Get 'em while they're young religion" has no appeal to me, nor does that religion which holds out the carrot of immortality [without an gram of evidence mind you] as long as I toe the line. It's that line that bothers me. This line, and that's exactly what it is-a line- fed to the masses in order to keep them in line so they can be more easily governed or to gain some power over these masses as is the case with religion, to further expand their power base and coffers. The devine right of kings [or queens]is a good example of mass control. Note the royal "we" in the case of the western Monarchy's and even some of the far eastern beliefs instills in their subjects the belief thatthe king or queen is backed up by the the all powerfull god. You wouldn't dare mess with either in that case would you. They've got you coming and going. "The existence of God is self-evident to any intelligent thinking person that closely examines this amazing universe of ours and asks "why?" Nonsense. This is nothing more than a lack of critical thinking. I could switch around your insulting premise that I am not an intelligent thinking person just because I don't give over my own belief to the best, self serving, marketing systems in the world and ask why you are simply because you are in awe of the universe. Just because we can't explain the origins of this universe, today, doesn't mean we won't tomorrow. Laying the universe's existence at some god's door is an abdication of critical thinking and indicates to me a more medieval approach to the scientific method. This belief system is one reason why I bristle everytime I hear the word believer when it's applied to the phenomenon. It's an attempt to make this interest of mine a religion and therefore denigrate it. This thread got started because of some silly poll taken in the United States with a couple of thousand people out of 300 million polled. If the stats are true then the world's newest king is, and has been, playing out his hand in familiar, and brilliant, fashion with his 'axis of evil' and 'with god's help pronouncements' since 9/11. With those poll percentages numbers to choose from he'd be crazy not too. Just remember Nick where your faith comes from. It was instilled in you as a child. That's where it starts. After a few years of this you have no real choice if you are not a critical thinker. It was the same with me but too much didn't make sense. Little things like World War Two got in the way which I had read about extensively and then I came to realize that our god seemed to be picking and choosing whose side it was going to be on depending on courage and self preservation [the Vatican for instance3]. I kept my kids out of religion until they were old enough to use some critical thinking and decide for themselves whether they wanted to embrace religion or not. Not one of the three did. I could really get into a tirade here re the world's ills are in large part due to organized and disorganized religion, but I'm not going to. To be honest, I fed up with this thread constantly popping up on these lists. But you pushed me into it with that, "The existence of God is self-evident to any intelligent thinking person that closely examines this amazing universe of ours and asks "why?" remark. To me the opposite is true. The world is made up of others who are critical thinkers, not just us egocentric North Americans. Over a third of the world's population had never heard of the western god until TV came along, and could care less. Hell must be packed with their
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:28:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:31:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Carol Rainey <csrainey1.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:01:25 -0500 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:30:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files <snip> >>According to the article below, photos of the Kecksburg UFO were >>taken by a radio news reporter at the time which were shown to >>at least one person before he was killed. His death reminded me >>of Dr. John Mack, Dr. Nick Spanos and others who knew a lot >>about UFOs and who met similar "accidental" fates. >>http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_161683.html <snip> >As a close friend of John Mack's, I have to interrupt this >conspiracy talk to tell you that John was not 'done in' because >he knew too much about UFOs and had evidence that scared the >government. >After his initial researching of the phenomenon, John took very >little interest in such things as the Kecksburg case. He >basically didn't give a damn about the controversies over every >little sighting of a hard-edged flying object. >When I was writing Sight Unseen (the science portions) with >Budd, John said to me: "Carol, I have no interest in the science >of all this." And he didn't. He leaped right over that and >headed to what really grabbed him. >John was much more interested in the mystical, spiritual, even >interdimensional aspects of the phenomeon that we often too >broadly refer to as "UFOs". And that was his area of study. >On the day he left for England, he e-mailed me that his next >area of interest was in life after death and that he'd begun a >project on this topic. >John Mack, wherever he is right now, would be laughing ruefully >at the discussion underway that he's been done in for his >metaphysical/mystical interests in the phenomenon. Hardly the >stuff of government assassination. Hi Carol! Buddha (Sidhartha Gautama), Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad were individuals from the past that changed our world and how we perceive our place in the universe. There are many more such individuals today whose teachings have the potential to do the same. The followers of these teachers continue to be persecuted because they are a threat to some of those who have control over us (and not necessarily "the government"). Such revived metaphysical/mystical ideas or beliefs from the past that are supported by intelligent and influential people such as Harvard University's Dr. John Mack would also be a threat to the status quo and it would be in the interest of some to do away with them. Can you say with absolute certainty that it was just a coincidence that such individuals died from an unfortunate accident or sudden illness?. For other individuals such McGill University's Dr. Gerald Bull who was trying to promote his Supergun that could easily and cheaply launch small payloads into space, there is no doubt that he was intentionally "done in".
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 20:03:47 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:35:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Dickenson >From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:25:55 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >If I read you correctly, I agree with what you are saying, but >in the opposite sense - Nick appears to me to be trying to >exaggerate his role as much as possible without embarrassing the >MoD to the point where they are obliged to take some form of >disciplinary action against him. <snip> >I have signed it at least 3 times, on joining the Army as a >junior soldier, again on my 18th birthday, and again on >discharge from the Army. I can't specifically remember, but I >think that there were occasions in between when I carried out >particular duties that I had to sign it as well. Joe, You got me right the first time - and for "disciplinary action", if it ever had to be invoked, then someone in authority would've already made a big mistake. You and me both've signed that Official Secrets Act so many times we could recite it - and so have several hundreds of thousands of folk in UK (maybe not so many times) - it's meant to subdue and silence, not empower the law. We've already got umpteen corrupt laws whereby a citizen can be locked-up for saying things those in power want kept secret. And of course there's always "accidents" - the closer to power you get the more prone to "accident". Frankly, if Nick hasn't already got a comfortable agreement with his bosses - then it's too late for life insurance.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 15 Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:08:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:40:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:38:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET >>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:02:26 +1000 >>Subject: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET >>Source: ABC - Australian Broadcasting Commission >>http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1526555.htm >>Friday, 9 December 2005 >>ABC Science Online >>Ex-Pollies To Look Out For ET >>by Anna Salleh >>Philosophers and former politicians will soon join an elite >>group of scientists whose job it is to work out how to respond >>to signals from extra-terrestrial intelligence. >>Professor Paul Davies, of the Australian Centre for Astrobiology >>at Macquarie University in Sydney, who heads the group, says a >>call from ET would raise profound issues that require >>consideration from more than "a bunch of gung ho scientists". >>"Nothing would be the same again. I think there's no doubt about >>that," says Davies, who has just taken up the chair of the SETI: >>Post-Detection Science and Technology Taskgroup of the >>International Academy of Astronautics. <snip> >(Again I point out that this ignores the implications of UFO >sightings. One wonders whether or not the numerous UFO >sightings in the late 40's prompted this brief discussion by >Fermi and others, or if it simply came "out of the blue"... or >black.) >Simple solutions to the paradox are: >a) they are not out there (we are the onlycivilization in the >Milky Way) >b) they are out there but: >1) we are quaranteened (no one visits earth) >2) they are here but unrecognizable (or appear > identical to us) >3) etc. >If UFO reports _are_ allowed then the resolution is n) they are >here, we see them occasionally, but because of the 'self-cover- >up principle' - no one really wants to know this is true because >it implies a loss of control over our situation) we ignore them. >"There's a flying saucer overhead." Don't look! Current issue (Just received today, here)of the MUFON Journal has my monthly column dealing with this same question except referring to the equally silly remarks of Dr. Martin Rees, the Royal Astronomer of England. It seems a pity that astronmomers and astrophysicists can't learn from the foolishness of past pronouncements by members of the group such as that "Space Travel is Utter Bilge" by another Royal Astronomer.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - Koi From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 20:25:52 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 07:07:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - Koi >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:38:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET >>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 06:02:26 +1000 >>Subject: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET >>Source: ABC - Australian Broadcasting Commission >>http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1526555.htm >>Friday, 9 December 2005 >>ABC Science Online >>Ex-Pollies To Look Out For ET >>by Anna Salleh >>Philosophers and former politicians will soon join an elite >>group of scientists whose job it is to work out how to respond >>to signals from extra-terrestrial intelligence. >>Professor Paul Davies, of the Australian Centre for >>Astrobiology at Macquarie University in Sydney, >>who heads the group, says a call from ET would >>raise profound issues that require >>consideration from more than "a bunch of gung ho scientists". >>"Nothing would be the same again. I think there's no doubt >>about that," says Davies, who has just taken up the chair of >>the SETI: Post-Detection Science and Technology >>Taskgroup of the International Academy of Astronautics. ><snip> >>"You can imagine that if you had a civilisation that maybe had >>10 million years of development, pretty much everything that >>they could do would seem like magic to us," says Davies. >>"Things like immortality might be very straightforward." >>Friend or foe >>Davies says some scientists are nervous about replying to a >>signal if it announces our existence to aliens with bad >>intentions. >>But he is more optimistic. >>"If they were out there, and they were aggressive and >>expansionary, then they would have already been here. We would >>have already taken over a long time ago," he says. >This is a simple restatement of the Fermi Paradox (paradoxical >only when UFO reports are ignored): <snip> >(Again I point out that this ignores the implications of UFO >sightings. One wonders whether or not the numerous UFO >sightings in the late 40's prompted this brief discussion by >Fermi and others, or if it simply came "out of the blue"... or >black.) Hi Bruce, Yes, discussion of UFO sightings prompted Fermi and others to discuss extraterrestrials during the relevant lunch in 1950. It seems that the relevant group had been discussing UFO reports, then moved on to other topics when Fermi came out with his question (rendered variously as "Where are they?", "Where is everybody" etc etc). The relevant discussion is summarised by Stephen Webb in his "Where is Everybody?: Fifty Solutions to the Fermi Paradox" (2002) at pages 17-18 (in Chapter 2), 245 (in the Notes and Further Reading) of the Copernicus hardback edition. That summary is largely based on an article by Eric Jones entitled "'Where is Everybody?': An Account of Fermi's Question," Los Alamos National Laboratory report number LA-10311-MS, March 1985. That article (including the relevant correspondence with participants in the discussion with Fermia) is available online at the link below: http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/la-10311-ms.pdf Since I've sometimes had problems with the above link, I note that there is a substantial extract at the link below (without, unfortunately, the images of the supporting documents which are included within the full pdf of the report by Jones): http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1057.htm Further interviews with participants in the discussion are summarised in an independent article about the relevant lunch, by Paul Horowitz in "SETI 2020 : A Roadmap for the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence" (2002) (edited by Elkers, Ronald D and Cullers, Kent D and Billingham, John and Scheffer, Louis K) at pages 373-374 (in Appendix J) of the SETI Press softcover edition. The account by Horowitz is less detailed, since it is largely based on the recollection of Herb York (who joined the relevant discussion after it had started). For ease of reference, the report by Eric Jones includes the following: "... Thanks to the excellent memory of Hans Mark, who had heard a retelling at Los Alamos in the early 1950s, we now know that Fermi did make the remark during a lunchtime conversation about 1950. His companions were Emil Konopinski, Edward Teller, and Herbert York. All three have provided accounts of the incident. We begin with Konopinski: "I have only fragmentary recollections about the occasion... I do have a fairly clear memory of how the discussion of extra-terrestrials got started while Enrico, Edward, Herb York, and I were walking to lunch at Fuller Lodge. "When l joined the party, I found being discussed evidence about flying saucers. That immediately brought to my mind a cartoon I had recently seen in the New Yorker, explaining why public trash cans were disappearing from the streets of New York City. The New York papers were making a fuss about that. The cartoon showed what was evidently a flying saucer sitting in the background and, streaming toward it, 'little green men' (endowed with antennas) carrying the trash cans. More amusing was Fermi's comment, that it was a very reasonable theory since it accounted for two separate phenomena: the reports of flying saucers as well as the disappearance of the trash cans. There ensued a discussion as to whether the saucers could somehow exceed the speed of light." Teller remembers: "My recollection of the event involving Fermi... is clear, but only partial. To begin with, I was there at the incident. I believe it occurred shortly after the end of the war on a visit of Fermi to the Laboratory, which quite possibly might have been during a summer. "I remember having walked over with Fermi and others to the Fuller Lodge for lunch. While we walked over, there was a conversation which I believe to have been quite brief and superficial on a subject only vaguely connected with space travel. I have a vague recollection, which may not be accurate, that we talked about flying saucers and the obvious statement that the flying saucers are not real. ... Teller continues: "The conversation, according to my memory, was only vaguely connected with astronautics partly on account of flying saucers might be due to extraterrestrial people (here I believe the remarks were purely negative), partly because exceeding light velocity would make interstellar travel one degree more real. ... It was after we were at the luncheon table," Konopinski recalls, "that Fermi surprised us with the question 'but where is everybody?' It was his way of putting it that drew laughs from us." York, who does not recall the preliminary conversation on the walk to Fuller Lodge, does remember that "virtually apropos of nothing Fermi said, 'Don't you ever wonder where everybody is?' Somehow... we all knew he meant extra-terrestrials." Teller remembers the question in much the same way. "The discussion had nothing to do with astronomy or with extraterrestrial beings. I think it was some down-to-earth topic. Then, in the middle of this conversation, Fermi came out with the quite unexpected question 'Where is everybody?' . . . The result of his question was general laughter because of the strange fact that in spite of Fermi's question coming from the clear blue, everybody around the table seemed to understand at once that he was talking about extraterrestrial life. "I do not believe that much came of this conversation, except perhaps a statement that the distances to the next location of living beings may be very great and that, indeed, as far as our galaxy is concerned, we are living somewhere in the sticks, far removed from the metropolitan area of the galactic center." York believes that Fermi was somewhat more expansive and "followed up with a series of calculations on the probability of earthlike planets, the probability of life given an earth, the probability of humans given life, the likely rise and duration of high technology, and so on. He concluded on the basis of such calculations that we ought to have been visited long ago and many times over. As I recall, he went on to conclude that the reason we hadn't been visited might be that interstellar flight is impossible, or, if it is possible, always judged to be not worth the effort, or technological civilization doesn't last long enough for it to happen." York confessed to being hazy about these last remarks. ... " >Simple solutions to the paradox are: Despite the importance of discussions of the Fermi "Paradox" to an informed consideration of the ETH, I'll avoid the temptation to include a long list of relevant references. I'll simply note that the most detailed discussion of the various solutions to the "paradox" that I've read is by Stephen Webb in his "Where is Everybody?: Fifty Solutions to the Fermi Paradox" (2002) generally, particularly at pages 1-274 of the Copernicus hardback edition. The "fifty solutions" of the title are summarised in the chapter headings, available online at: http://tinyurl.com/8lutl Virtually all of the more intelligent discussions of the Fermi paradox in the SETI literature do at least refer to UFOs. Almost all do so in terms along the lines of the following: "There is no need to discuss suggestions that UFO reports are caused by visiting extraterrestrials since such suggestions are not taken seriously by most scientists". A slight variation on this theme is the following comment by Keay Davidson in his "Carl Sagan : A Life" at page 347 (in Chapter 14) of the Wiley softcover edition: "If interstellar travel is indeed feasible, and if aliens exist, then why haven't they visited us? (UFO sightings don't count;
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - Koi From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 20:35:17 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 07:09:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - Koi >From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:46:18 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:01 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>The article you mentioned also has the following: >>>"One piece is being held for study of Werner Bromund, >>>professor of chemistry at Oberlin College. He left early >>>today for Chicago, and will have the unusual metal >>>awaiting him on his return to Oberlin." >>>Did you try contacting Oberlin? >>Nope, I didn't follow up on this. Nonetheless, NASA is now >>admitting that they did analyze debris and it wasn't from a >>meteor. >>The other important parts of the new story is that it was from >>a "Russian satellite," though NASA's own expert ruled this out >>in 2003 when Leslie Kean checked with him. Nothing >>orbiting came down that day in that area. >I think you are a good researcher. Would you be willing to >contact Oberlin to find out whether professor Werner Bromund is >still alive? If he is still around it would be good to locate >him to find out his opinion and if he wrote up a report. If he >is no longer around it would be good to find out if there is an >archive of his materials available. >Josh Goldstein Hi Josh, David, List Werner Bromund died in 2000. In terms of his archived material, Josh, you might be interested in the following: "Werner had a strong interest in the historical record. He saved everything. ...He also saved chemical materials that he had found elsewhere. The records have been deposited in the college's archives." See: http://tinyurl.com/clfch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:56:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:02:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:58:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:01 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>"One piece is being held for study of Werner Bromund, professor >>>of chemistry at Oberlin College. He left early today for >>>Chicago, and will have the unusual metal awaiting him on his >>>return to Oberlin." >>>Did you try contacting Oberlin? >>Nope, I didn't follow up on this. Nonetheless, NASA is now >>admitting that they did analyze debris and it wasn't from a >>meteor. >>The other important parts of the new story is that it was from a >>"Russian satellite," though NASA's own expert ruled this out in >>2003 when Leslie Kean checked with him. Nothing orbiting came >>down that day in that area. >Are you interested in getting samples of the debris for >independent testing or are you interested in getting NASA >records of the event? >If NASA records, then you are likely out of luck because of the >distance in time and poor preservation methods used. The >original guy who had the boxes sent to storage is likely dead >and his "storage forms" thrown out after he died. Even the >inventory records would either be discolored/illegible or >missing. The box may be mouldering somewhere with thousands of >others (its label discolored/fallen off). Its too much to expect >a pristine archival of all NASA documents and other items. The >best you can do is to actually get permission to go to the >archival facility and manually got through every box. Why is too much to expect NASA to know where its stuff is? Why would it be "mouldering?" Why would all the labels be fallen off? Does that go for all their documents too? It seems like you want to provide excuses for NASA _not_ to locate what it might have. >If you are interested in getting the debris, the news story also >mentioned that Donald Shepherd ,the Spring Valley School >principal in Elyria, Oh, was given one of the pieces of debris. >Of interest is the following from the article: >"Efforts also are bemg made to have the samples studied at >Lorain County Community College by officials at Lewis Laboratory >of the National Aeronautics and Space Agency at Cleveland >Hopkins Airoort and at Case Institute of Technology." >So NASA and Case univeristy wanted Lorain Community College to >study the samples??? Did the article miss some commas or >something? Probably. >Why would NASA ask a little college to examine the >pieces when they have their own equipment? I suspect each group >were contacted, so might have samples too. >My personal feeling is that a father saw his son looking for the >debris and dug out some slag for him to find. Now you are talking like a debunker. The witness (one of the three boys) I spoke to said they saw the pieces dropping from the sky into a field and _immediately_ went to pick them up. They were still warm when they found them. Where did you get the idea that a father was somehow involved? He wasn't there. >From Holland, Michigan newpaper - Dec 11,1965 - other debris >found from the episode was: >"Officials at Battle Creek Community College said Friday an >object about the size of a baseball was found by Mrs. Lloyd >Holmes near Battle Creek appeared to be a meteorite. Mrs. Holmes >said she found the pock-marked and porous metallic object about >500 feet from her home after seeing something fall into the >field. She said the falling object had a fire tail three to four >feet long and seemed to explode just before striking the >ground." >Also from the same paper: >"Near Jackson, a Concord boy found a metallic - like object >which he said he found smoldering in a fencerow. Roy Root said a >fireball passed just over the tree-tops near him and then >crashed into the ground. He said that when he first found the >rock, it was too hot to touch. Authorities examined the object >and said that while some moss seemed to have grown on it, there >was a strong sulphur smell. That rock weighed about five pounds >and was greenishgrey in color. It too was pockmarked." >>From Ironwood Michigan Daily Globe - Dec 10, 1965: >"Near Jackson 13 year old, Roy Root found a 15 pound metallic >object metallic object in a field near his farm home at Concord. >He told newsmen the object was in a hole two feet deep and was >still hot when it was discovered." >>From the Kennebec Journal, Augusta, Dec 11, 1965: >"Brian Parent and Larry Jones, both 11, of Livonia, Mich., said >they picked up a piece of lightweight grayish fused metal about >the size of a baseball which fell into a field." Yes, all these are potential leads that could to be followed up on. (It's just rather difficult 40 years after the fact.) The claim, however, from two papers in science journals I've read (one below) was that no meteorites were ever found. That's very odd considering the many widespread reports of the object breaking up and debris seen raining down, plus people saying they picked the stuff up. Elyria was just one example. One would _expect_ meteorites to be found if this was a meteor fireball. >Also, various papers indicated an astronomer solicited the >public for sighting data, so he might have this data somewhere. >His name was "von del chamberlain", an astronomer at Michigan >State Univeristy. Yes, he and David J. Krause wrote an article for the Royal Astronomical Society of Canada Journal in 1967 saying it was a meteor. The main result of the paper was a trajectory that ended up being at right angles to a trajectory that can be deduced from gathering eye witness reports over a large area. They further claimed that the whole event lasted only a few seconds and ended over the western end of Lake Erie near Detroit and Windsor. This paper is a staple of Kecksburg debunkers (like James Oberg and Bob Young) who claim that it absolutely proved that the fireball never pointed in the direction of Pennsylvania or that anything happened across northern Ohio or western Pennsylvania. All the witness who say otherwise were all lying or imagining things (including all the people in western Penn. who phoned in reports of sonic booms to the state police - oddly this is never discussed in Kecksburg debunking articles). But how conclusive are the results really? The paper's conclusions were entirely based on a triangulation of the path from two points on the smoke trail from only two photos. The photos weren't taken that far apart, creating a narrow triangulation base. This means that even tiny errors in the measurements of the directions on the photos could create a radically different trajectory. Examples of such potential errors would be getting their compass directions slightly wrong or getting one or both photo spots wrong by only a few feet, which could similarly throw off directions on the photos by easily a degree or two. A small size scaling error in one or both photos could again throw direction measurements off just a tiny bit. Another possible source of error would be wind shear, since the photos weren't taken simultaneously but approximately a minute or so apart. I found when I analyzed this that it would take less than 2 degrees error overall to change their SW to NE trajectory to one at right angles to this, from the NW to SE. Despite this, there is zero discussion of potential error in this paper. At the very least, there should have been error bars on the directions. (No measurements like this in real life are ever perfect.) Draw an error cone only 1 degree in radius around their directions and it becomes immediately apparent that the trajectory could have varied over about 230 degrees! Thus their trajectory is hardly conclusive at all. No wonder it disagrees so sharply with eyewitness reports much further to the east. >Of interest are the sightings later in the evening in California >- 12:02am - and Idaho - 9:30pm - of meteor-like objects but >those are probably not connected to the midwest sightings. > >The best story I found was in the Valley Independent, >Monongahela Valley, Penn, Dec 10, 1965 - it was a UPI story out >of Pittsburg, I can see how a legend started: Well I can see where you're going with this. So it's a "legend," is it? Everybody who saw or heard something much further east in Ohio or Pennsylvania merely imagined it. Well one of my favorite "legends" was the newspaper report (see further down) of a weather observer in Columbus, Ohio apparently seeing the fireball due EAST of his position. Kecksburg is due east of Columbus. I supposed this guy didn't "triangulate" correctly. He didn't know that two astronomers with questionable methods actually proved the event really ended over 100 miles north of position. He must have confused his north from his east - yeah that's it! >The Mount Pleasant search got underway about 6pm Thursday night >after seven residents of Kecksburg, a tiny community of 500, >reported seeing a smouldering object crash to the earth. >"There's definitely something down there" said one weary state >trooper when the search was called off at 1 am. >About an hour later, a group of 8 or 9 persons reported they >saw a bright, blue light in the woods about 150 feet from where >they were standing on a hillside. >A state trooper who also saw the light descended the hillside >but when he got half way down those standing above said the >light disappeared. >A full moon hovered over the valley during Thursday night's >search while bystanders joked about "little green men" and >flying saucers. There were about 25 men in the official search >party and 150 onlookers who arrived on the scene before road >blocks werre set up to seal off the area. >Sources at the Pentagon indicated Thursday they believed the >orange flash was a meteorite. And now a NASA spokesman says it wasn't a meteor after all but a "Russian satellite." So who's got the story right? >Officials at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, >refused to speculate about what the object might have been. "A >spokesman for the NorthAmerican Air Defense Command at Colorado >Springs, Col.,said Norad tracking stations did not track the >flash of light but said if it was a meteorite it would have >shown up on their radar scopes. Again, no meteor according to this. >National Guard and Air Force personnel both denied early >reports that the flash came from a rocket fired in Ohio. >Times listed for the sightings were 4:40 p.m. EST in Indiana, >4:44 p.m. EST in Oberlin. Ohio and 4:50 p.m. EST in Erie,Pa. >In Columbus, Ohio, a weather observer said he saw an object to >the east which looked like a meteor while be was making an >observation. Here it is, the weather observer who couldn't tell his east from his north. >"A spokesman at the Federal Air Traffic Control Center in >Oberlin said, "so far indications are that it was only one >object." >Reports of debris falling were also made in Midland,Pa., on the >Pennsylvania-Ohio border and in Lorain County,Ohio. >The Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge,Mass >which said it had no reports about the "fireballs" said often a >speeding object appears to crash to the ground a short distance >away but is really over the horizon and out of sight. Another debunking tactic is to claim that people in the greater Pittsburgh area saw the fireball far off in the distance near the horizon. First of all, there were a few reports of the damn thing flying directly over people's head. Even ignoring these, we're talking coal mining country here. The terrain is very hilly with a lot of trees. There are very few places where anybody is going to have a view of the horizon off in the direction of Detroit some 200 miles or more distant. Add into this the fact that the weather wasn't that great. It had been hazy and cloudy with drizzle that day in western Pennsylvania, not ideal seeing conditions for something supposedly 200 miles away just above the horizon. And, of course, visibility has nothing to do with the many reports of unexplained sonic booms being heard and reported in western Pennsylvania. Were people instead hearing the sonic booms also heard in the Detroit area 200 miles away? James, instead of dismissing Pennsylvania accounts as "legends," I think it would be more productive for both of us to compare notes offline, since it seems you have compiled a decent collection of newspaper reports that would complement mine. The
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Landahl From: Erik Landahl <landahl1.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:07:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:04:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Landahl >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:08:05 EST >Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >>From: Erik Landahl <landahl1.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:04:01 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God <snip> Hi Greg, The belief - faith if you will - in various alleged UFO-related phenomena by persons who have neither done the research nor studied the research of others does bear some similarity to a belief in religious tenets and a belief in God. Perhaps these phenomena actually did occur and - like belief in God - require faith in something that cannot be proven. However - persons who believe in UFO-related phenomena on which no viable research has been performed or studied do not have their beliefs enshrined in a body of law to which all UFO researchers are subject. Even conclusions based on thorough research and study of particular UFO-related phenomena never gain the force of law. UFO-related research is constantly open to questions and new ideas that produce further research and study. This is the lifeblood of science, of which UFO-related research is a part. This is the defining difference between the power of Christian believers in the U.S. and the power of believers in unresearched, unstudied UFO-related phenomena. Christian beliefs can become the law to which all persons are subject. Faith-based UFO beliefs create an incorrect perception of and lack of respect for serious UFO-related research. But they cannot obtain the force of law. UFO-related research that embodies viable scientific and investigative principles and produces both conclusions and more questions cannot be suppressed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Canadian 8 Seater Orbital Spacecraft From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:12:27 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:08:51 -0500 Subject: Canadian 8 Seater Orbital Spacecraft Hi Everyone! Sir Richard Branson's recent announcement of his plans to offer the public an opportunity to take a sub-orbital flight in space aboard his 'Virgin Galactic' spaceplane from a private spaceport near Roswell, New Mexico pales to today's announcement by the Canadian Arrow/PlanetSpace team. The Canadians plan to offer the experience of an orbital flight in space aboard their sleek hypersonic 'Silver Dart' spacecraft. The launch site for the Canadian Arrow, and possibly the Silver Dart too, will be Cape Rich which is located about a 2-hour drive northwest of Toronto. http://www.planetspace.org/pdf/PressRelease121505.pdf Less than 500 people have flown in space so far - not including those involved in the still secret U.S. manned space program that is separate from NASA or those 12 Americans alleged to have flown aboard a UFO to an extrasolar planet. ;o) The Canadian Arrow/PlanetSpace team plan to send 2000 more into space in their first 5 years of operation. I would be not be surprised if NASA or other private companies use the 'Silver Dart' to offer the public sightseeing flights to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? From: Bob Soetebier <rks1.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:14:43 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:17:56 -0500 Subject: Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? Perhaps this is how Grant Cameron was targeted as "a person of interest" by the Bush Administration!?!: ----- Source: Capitol Hill Blue - Willis, Virginia, USA http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/printer_7625.shtml Nov 8, 2005 White House Keeps Dossiers On More Than 10,000 'Political Enemies' By Doug Thompson Publisher, Capitol Hill Blue Spurred by paranoia and aided by the USA Patriot Act, the Bush Administration has compiled dossiers on more than 10,000 Americans it considers political enemies and uses those files to wage war on those who disagree with its policies. <snip> Rove started the list while Bush served as governor of Texas, compiling information on various political enemies in the state and leaking damaging information on opponents to friends in the press. The list grew during Bush's first run for President in 2000 but the names multiplied rapidly after the terrorist attacks of 2001 and passage of the USA Patriot Act. Using the powers under the act, Rove expanded the list to more than 10,000 names, utilizing the FBI's "national security letters" to gather private and intimate details on American citizens. National security letters, which can be issued by an FBI supervisor without a judge's review or approval, allows the bureau to examine the telephone calls, correspondence and financial lives of any Americans. The FBI issues some 30,000 national security letters a year to employers, credit bureaus, banks, travel agencies and other sources of information on American citizens. The Patriot Act also forbids anyone receiving such a letter to reveal they have passed on information to the federal government. "Those letters helped us build files quickly on those we needed to know more about," says a former White House aide. The database of political enemies of the Bush administration is not maintained on White House computers and is located on a privately-owned computer offsite, but can be accessed remotely by a select list of senior aides, including Rove. The offsite location allowed the database to escape detection by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald during his investigation of the Valerie Plame leak. The database is funded by private donations from Bush political backers and does not appear on the White House budget or Federal Election Commission campaign reports. <snip> But worried White House insiders say the intelligence gathered by the Bush administration is far larger, more extensive and potentially more damaging than the excesses of previous occupants of the White House. Even worse, it dovetails into a pattern of spying on Americans that has become commonplace since Bush took office. "We're talking about Big Brother at its most extreme," says one White House staffer. "We know things about people that their spouses don't know and, if it becomes politically expedient, we will make sure the rest of the world knows." The White House press office did not respond to a request for an
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 John Mack & Conspiracies [was: Leslie Kean From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:36:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:27:05 -0500 Subject: John Mack & Conspiracies [was: Leslie Kean >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:28:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: Carol Rainey <csrainey1.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:01:25 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:30:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>According to the article below, photos of the Kecksburg UFO were >>>taken by a radio news reporter at the time which were shown to >>>at least one person before he was killed. His death reminded me >>>of Dr. John Mack, Dr. Nick Spanos and others who knew a lot >>>about UFOs and who met similar "accidental" fates. >>>http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_161683.html <snip> >>John Mack, wherever he is right now, would be laughing ruefully >>at the discussion underway that he's been done in for his >>metaphysical/mystical interests in the phenomenon. Hardly the >>stuff of government assassination. <snip> >By not considering such sinister possibilities we do what is >expected of us by those whose evil and selfish actions keep us >enslaved and deprived the world of the truth. Please let us note that John Mack's family sent a letter to the court system asking for leniency with regard to the drunken driver who killed John. They obviously didn't think it was a conspiracy. I know from personal experience that it is very easy for an American to forget when walking around England that the Brits drive on the other side of the road and we traditionally look in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:19:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:30:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:46:18 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:01 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files <snip> >>>The article you mentioned also has the following: >>>"One piece is being held for study of Werner Bromund, professor >>>of chemistry at Oberlin College. He left early today for >>>Chicago, and will have the unusual metal awaiting him on his >>>return to Oberlin." >>>Did you try contacting Oberlin? >>Nope, I didn't follow up on this. Nonetheless, NASA is now >>admitting that they did analyze debris and it wasn't from a >>meteor. <snip> >I think you are a good researcher. Would you be willing to >contact Oberlin to find out whether professor Werner Bromund is >still alive? If he is still around it would be good to locate >him to find out his opinion and if he wrote up a report. If he >is no longer around it would be good to find out if there is an >archive of his materials available. Interesting that both Budd Hopkins and John Mack attended Oberlin.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Christmas Tree Sighting From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 22:00:34 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:00:00 -0500 Subject: Christmas Tree Sighting Just in time for Christmas 2005: the "Christmas Tree Sighting" of 1981.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 23:25:55 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:01:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God - Balaskas >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:47:52 -0400 >Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:00:46 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >>Subject: Re: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:43:08 EST >>>Subject: Gallup Poll Finds 98% Believe In God >>>Nice to see a poll like this. >>>http://tinyurl.com/96wwu <snip> >>If Professor Alcock is correct and the vast majority of us, >>including our parents, grandparents and ancestors (and those >>schizophrenic ETs too?) are wrong, he hasn't proven his case >>which is based more on personal beliefs and biases rather than >>on solid scientific facts. >Sorry Nick, I'm with Alcock on this. "Get 'em while they're >young religion" has no appeal to me, nor does that religion >which holds out the carrot of immortality [without an gram of >evidence mind you] as long as I toe the line. It's that line >that bothers me. <snip> It bothers me too Don. A lot. Those that reigned over us, whether it is a monarch, president or a pope, really do so only with our consent and not because of God's will. The reason there is a Jewish monarchy is because the chosen people of God wanted one just so they could be like all the other nations - so God granted their wish! As for immortality, as children of God created in His image we are more than just flesh and blood. Our science is limited to time and 3 dimensions of space and our reality is defined by our five senses. If energy can become matter and vice versa then nothing can ever be lost. If the real universe consists of many dimensions (the Bible hints at 12), then anything and everything is possible. As our science or human knowledge and understanding evolves, the distinction between physics (or natural philosophy) and philosophy (or religious beliefs) becomes smaller. Although I can give you more than a "gram" of evidence that all humans are immortal beings not subject to any preconditions set by man, I do not think this the place for such discussions. >>"The existence of God is self-evident to any intelligent >>thinking person that closely examines this amazing universe of >>ours and asks "why?" >Nonsense. This is nothing more than a lack of critical thinking. >I could switch around your insulting premise that I am not an >intelligent thinking person just because I don't give over my >own belief to the best, self serving, marketing systems in the >world and ask why you are simply because you are in awe of the >universe. Just because we can't explain the origins of this >universe, today, doesn't mean we won't tomorrow. Laying the >universe's existence at some god's door is an abdication of >critical thinking and indicates to me a more medieval approach >to the scientific method. No insult was intented Don. As I mentioned in the part you chose to edit out, our greatest advances in science over the centuries were by people who saw the hand of God in all things, by asking questions about the subatomic world or by wondering how galaxies which make up our vast observable universe came into existence. By wanting to better understand the complex mind of the Creator, science advanced through their careful investigations of His creation. One of these believers in God was Galileo who went against the "old science" of the day that the obviously less believing Roman Catholic Church had accepted as the truth! A different critical thinker can argue in a similar fashion as you and say that because science has not yet found proof for the exisitence of God doesn't mean we won't tomorrow. >This belief system is one reason why I bristle everytime I hear >the word believer when it's applied to the phenomenon. It's an >attempt to make this interest of mine a religion and therefore >denigrate it. Just like the science of the 19th century was replaced by the 20th century ideas of Einstein's relativity and Heisenberg's quantum mechanics, I tell students in our physics labs they are the ones who will make the important new discoveries that will make their science textbooks obsolete. Human knowledge and understanding or science is constantly evolving but it is not necessarily bringing us closer to the truth. Without absolutes everything is subject to question by later generations (eg. did man really walk on the Moon?) which only creates many new doubts - too many for any one person to resolve by themselves in their lifetime. So what is the result, science is taught based on what we currently believe to be true (eg. the Big Bang created the universe). Is there anything we know for sure or anything that is based on faith? Fortunately, there are absolutes "out there" that have been overlooked by this increasingly secular generation. These include the time proven truths found in the Bible and other holy "ET" ancient texts that contain direct relevations from God! I like to point out that all the books in our university law library, the largest in Canada, are all based on one ET inspired book! >I kept my kids out of religion until they were old enough to use >some critical thinking and decide for themselves whether they >wanted to embrace religion or not. Not one of the three did. Although I believe in God, I have not embraced religion either. I was reminded of this fact again when I visited the sisters at the Greek Orthodox Monastery in Pennsylvania on my return to Toronto from the crash sites of the Kecksburg UFO (possibly Cosmos 96?) and UAL Flight 93 (or some other aircraft?) in 2001. The Dark Ages came to an end when the truths of the Bible were once again made available to all and the Age of Enlightenment began. By discarding the absolute truths given by God, we may become victims of the false religion of science by allowing others to do the thinking for us. A few years ago a student in our physics labs kept asking me why something was the way it was. I finally told this student that it was because God made it this way. My comment was overheard by another student who stayed behind after the lab to talk to me. She asked me if I believed in God. I said yes. She then asked if being a scientist was incompatible with my belief in God. I told her this did not seem to be the case with the many distinguished and accomplished scientists we have here who also believed in God. She started to cry. I asked her if there was anything wrong and she said told me that during her first class in 'Genetics and Evolution' course her professor told the students that we were all accidents of nature and he did not want to hear about God or anything else to the contrary if they expected to do well in his course. This placed her in conflict with her beliefs as a Muslim. I told her that what this professor said was wrong and nothing less than intellectual tyranny which had no place at the university. The professor can express his professional views or opinions but it was the responsibility of the critical thinking student to challenge the professor without fear of punishment or penalty if they thought differently. As with all thinking people, including your three children, it is they that should decide what is the truth. New or different
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:20:29 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:04:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article - Ledger >From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:53:49 -0000 >Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 23:46:10 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article >>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:38:05 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: Daily Express Rendlesham Article ><snip> >>No kidding... he's actually got feathers? No wonder he gets >>upset with Jerry about those pelican shots. >John Rimmer gets very nervous around Christmas - he has been >mistaken for a turkey on occasion, and was once impaled on a >Christmas tree when someone mistook him for an angel! So it's likely, Joe, he could be frightened off by a turkey baster, or a fork. Valuable debating information.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Re: 1 In 3 Americans Believe In UFOs? - Fleming From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 23:24:33 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:32:53 -0500 Subject: Re: 1 In 3 Americans Believe In UFOs? - Fleming >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 06:19:45 EST >Subject: 1 In 3 Americans Believe In UFOs? >The bulk of this story is about the beliefs of the American People. >Primarily their beliefs in God, spirit, angels etc. >http://tinyurl.com/bwewk >Of note to this List is that 1 in 3 believe in UFOs. What that >actually means is unclear as the poll question isn't listed. Here's the question as stated on the Harris website: http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=618 "Please indicate for each one if you believe in it, or not." The respondents were asked to check off yes, no, or unsure to a list of things. As with most of these polls, what "belief" in UFOs means is never made clear. Personally, I'd answer "not sure" to the question because I am very unsure the question's meaning. But whatever it means, in addition to the 34% who said yes there was another 25% who said "not sure" for a politically incorrect majority of 59%. The only _correct_ answer to the professional skeptics and the news media is, of course, "no!!!" shouted with sincere indignation with disdainful references to little green men and conspiracy theories thrown in. I've always thought a better way to phrase a question on UFOs would be: "Do you believe there is any evidence that some UFOs might be something other than hoaxes, delusions, and misidentifications?" I suspect that 59% might answer yes to that question, since it doesn't suggest that opinions on the subject have to be faith-based as opinions on the existence of God must be. Few people want to have any part in a UFO religion. >It's good these polls are being conducted so that we can get an >idea of what the people have their attention on. At the moment, I think UFOs are near the bottom of the list of what people are paying attention to. They're much more concerned about Iraq, peak oil, the trend to more frequent and more powerful hurricanes, global warming at the point of no return,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Don't Mistake Antarctic Balloons For UFOs From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 07:53:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:35:57 -0500 Subject: Don't Mistake Antarctic Balloons For UFOs INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology December 16, 2005 Source: Proyecto Stratocat Date: 12.15.05 Antarctica: Don't Mistake Balloons For UFOs Gigantic balloon launched from Antarctica Following several abortive launch attempts during previous days, it is finally today, December 15, 2005, that the first of two gigantic balloons that NASA will employ in this years Antarctic campaign is already sailing across the polar skies. The launch took place at 15:13 UTC from Williams Field at the McMurdo Antarctic Base. Suspended from the colossal balloon is the instrument package known as CREAM (Cosmic Ray Energetics and Mass), aimed at the study of cosmic rays during its second Antarctic venture. During the flight, it will study the range of ultra-high energy searching for abnormalities of the spectrum and/or changes in the abundance of their constituing parts, which could be related to a limit in the acceleration of the supernova from which they originate. -----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 President Carter Ponders The Paranormal From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:46:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:46:33 -0500 Subject: President Carter Ponders The Paranormal Source: The New York Daily News - USA http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/375209p-318847c.html 12-15-05 Loyd Groves' Lowdown Prez Carter Ponders The Paranormal As President, Jimmy Carter may not have consulted an astrologer to decide the details of his schedule - a la Nancy Reagan directing her husband's busy days. But Ronald Reagan's predecessor did once employ a woman in a trance to locate a downed government plane in Africa. "We had a plane go down in the Central African Republic. A twin- engine plane. Small plane. And we couldn't find it," the 81- year-old 39th President reveals to GQ magazine's Wil S. Hylton. "So we oriented satellites that were going around the Earth every 90 minutes to fly over that spot where we thought it might be and take photographs. We couldn't find it." Carter continues: "The director of the CIA came and told me that he had contacted a woman in California who claimed to have supernatural capabilities. And she went into a trance and she wrote down latitudes and longitudes, and we sent our satellite over that latitude and longitude, and there was the plane." Digging deeper into his personal X-Files, Carter claims he once sighted a UFO. "I've never believed that it came from Mars... But I saw an object one night when I was preparing to give a speech to a Lions Club," Carter says. "There were about 25 of us men standing around... And all of a sudden, one of the men looked up and said, 'Look, over in the west.' And there was a bright light in the sky... [I]t got closer and closer to us. And then it stopped, I don't know how far away, but it stopped beyond the pine trees. And all of a sudden it changed color to blue, and then it changed to red, then back to white. And we were trying to figure out what in the world it could be, and then it receded into the distance."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Solution To The Fermi Paradox? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:08:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:08:41 -0500 Subject: Solution To The Fermi Paradox? Source: PDF File http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0512062 arXiv:physics/0512062 v2 9 Dec 2005 A Solution To The Fermi Paradox: The Solar System, Part Of A Galactic Hypercivilization? Beatriz Gato-Rivera [Physicist at the Instituto de Matematicas y Fisica in Madrid] World Mystery Forum 2005, Interlaken (Switzerland) November 2005 1 Introduction This talk is about the possibility that the Solar System belongs to the territory of a hypercivilization spanning our galaxy or a large region of it. I will start introducing the Fermi Paradox (why we do not see aliens around?) and some of its solutions. Then I will present my own solution which includes two proposals called the Subanthropic Principle and the Undetectability Conjecture. This solution states that, at present, all typical galaxies like ours are already colonized by very advanced technological civilizations spread through large regions or the whole galaxies, many of them containing primitive subcivilizations like ours. After discussing some consequences of this solution for our planet and our civilization I will make some comments on recent, very popular theories in the scientific community of Particle Physics and Cosmology. These theories, known as 'brane worlds', assume that our visible Universe with three space dimensions is embedded in a much larger Cosmos with more space dimensions. Therefore it would be most natural if other universes would also exist located along the extra space dimensions. As a result, these theories open up enormous possibilities regarding the visitation or colonization of the Solar System by alien civilizations, strengthening the Fermi Paradox. Finally, in the appendix I have included some questions and answers that came up during this Forum. 2 The Fermi Paradox In the summer 1950, in Los Alamos, the nuclear physicists Enrico Fermi, Edward Teller and other colleagues brought up the subject of unidentified flying objects (UFO's) while having lunch. This topic was very popular at that time. After a while, when they had changed subjects Fermi suddenly asked: Where is everybody? Performing fast mental computations, Fermi had reached the conclusion that alien civilizations should have been around visiting Earth for many thousands or millions of years. Therefore, why we do not see them? This is the Fermi Paradox. Although Fermi never explained how he made his computations, nor gave an estimate of the number of civilizations which should have visited Earth, he had to rely on arguments like these: In our galaxy there are thousands of millions of stars much older than the Sun, many of them thousands of millions of years older (in the 'habitable zone' of the galaxy they are on average one thousand million years older [1]). Therefore many civilizations must have arisen in our galaxy before ours and a fraction of them must have expanded through vast regions or even through the whole galaxy. Some other arguments pointing in the same direction involve estimates about the lifetime of the second generation stars, inside of which the chemical elements of organic matter are made, and also involve estimates of the total time necessary for a technological civilization to colonize, or visit, the whole galaxy. Regarding the second generation stars, they are formed only two million years after the supermassive first generation stars (these burn out exploding as supernovae in one million years only and it takes another million years for the debris to form new stars). Therefore the appearance of organic matter in our galaxy could have happened several thousands of millions of years before the Sun came into existence. As to the total time necessary to colonize, or visit, the whole galaxy by a technological civilization, conservative computations of diffusion modeling give estimates from 5 to 50 million years [2], which is a cosmologically short timescale1. Besides these considerations, the fact that life on Earth started very early supports the views, held by many scientists, that life should be abundant in the Universe. 3 Solutions to the Fermi Paradox Many solutions have been proposed to the Fermi Paradox. I classify them as expansionist and non-expansionist. The non- expansionist solutions are based on the assumption that technological civilizations do not expand beyond a small neighborhood of the galaxy. The most popular of these solutions are the following ones: - Interstellar travel is not possible no matter the scientific and technological level reached by a civilization. - Generically, advanced civilizations have little or no interest in expanding through large regions of the galaxy. - Technological civilizations annihilate themselves, or disappear by natural catastrophes, before having the chance to expand through large regions of the galaxy. On the other hand, the most popular expansionist solutions to the Fermi Paradox, based on the assumption that generically technological civilizations do expand through large regions of the galaxy, make use of one or more of the following arguments: - Alien civilizations do visit Earth at present times, for different purposes, and/or have visited Earth in the past. In this respect it is remarkable the fact that Francis Crick, one of the discoverers of the DNA structure, proposed in the mid- seventies1 During this Forum Claudio Maccone, member of the International Academy of Astronautics, has presented a mathematical model that predicts around 150 million years, which is still a short time. that life on Earth could have been inseminated on purpose by alien intelligences2. Besides, some scientists as well as countless authors of popular books, have speculated that some UFO's could be true alien spacecrafts whereas some 'gods descending from the sky', abundant in many ancient traditions, could have been just alien astronauts (see for example [3] [4]). - Advanced alien civilizations might have strong ethical codes against interfering with primitive life-forms [5]. - Advanced aliens ignore us because of lack of interest due to our low primitive level. For example Robert Jastrow, ex-director of Mt. Wilson Observatory, claims [6] that, on average, advanced civilizations should consider us as larvae due to the fact that they should be thousands of millions of years ahead of us.... and who would be interested in communicating with larvae? - Alien civilizations have not reached us yet because intelligent life is extremely diffi- cult to emerge. Otherwise alien civilizations would necessarily be here. As a result we could find ourselves among the most evolved technological civilizations in our galaxy or we could even be the only one. Besides these simple solutions there are many more exotic proposals. For example, a rather drastic expansionist solution is given by the theoretical physicist Cumrun Vafa, at Harvard University, who thinks that the fact that we do not see aliens around could be the first proof of the existence of brane worlds: all advanced aliens would have emigrated to better parallel universes [7]. 4 My Solution to the Fermi Paradox Two years ago I made a proposal for solving the Fermi Paradox [8]. It states that, at present, all the typical galaxies of the Universe are already colonized (or large regions of them) by advanced civilizations. In the vast territory of these hypercivilizations a small proportion of their individuals would belong to primitive subcivilizations, like ours. That is, I put forward the possibility that our small terrestrial civilization is embedded in a large hypercivilization unknowingly and this situation should be common in all typical galaxies. 2It is less known that several years before Crick, in 1960, the astronomer Thomas Gold suggested, during a congress in Los Angeles, that space travellers could have brought life to Earth some thousands of millions of years ago. Curiously, this claim was also made, with a detailed description of 'the facts', by the 'popular metaphysics' writer T. Lobsang Rampa in the book The Hermit (1971). The primitive subcivilizations would know or ignore their low status depending, most likely, on the ethical standards of the advanced civilization in which they are immersed. If the standards are low, the individuals of the primitive subcivilizations will be surely abused in many ways and therefore will be painfully aware of their low status. If the ethical standards of the advanced individuals are high instead, then they will respect the natural evolution (social, cultural) of the primitive subcivilizations, treating them 'ecologically' as some kind of protected species. In this case, which could well describe the situation of the terrestrial civilization, most primitive individuals would be completely unaware of the existence of the large hypercivilization. Now some remarks follow: - Needless to say, the primitive individuals would not be considered as citizens of the hypercivilization and direct open contact would completely destroy the primitive subcivilization. - The 'alien visitors', from the viewpoint of the primitive individuals, would not be so from the viewpoint of the advanced individuals from the hypercivilization because they rather would be visiting, or working in, their own territory. (The advanced civilizations would surely have underground and/or submarine bases in their primitive planets for military and scientific purposes.) - I distinguish between aggressive and non-aggresive advanced civilizations. I do not believe that advanced civilizations must have ethical codes concerning primitive life-forms. - The fact that our civilization has never been attacked by aggressive aliens, as far as history knows, could well be a clue that we belong to a non-aggressive advanced civilization which protects planet Earth, as part of its territory. If this scenario is true for our civilization, then the Subanthropic Principle [8] would also hold. It states that we are not typical among the intelligent observers from the Universe. Typical civilizations of typical galaxies would be hundreds of thousands, or millions, of years more evolved than ours and, consequently, typical intelligent observers would be orders of magnitude more intelligent than us3. One may argue against this principle saying that a much higher level of science and technology does not necessarily imply a much higher intelligence or brain capacities. My answer to this objection is that there are two main reasons to think in this way. The 3This means that, if we 'score' 10, then they would score 100 or 1.000 or 10.000, etc. first is simply natural biological evolution as we see it in our planet. The individuals of our species (homo sapiens sapiens) are more intelligent than our ancestors and these were more intelligent than their own ancestors, etc. Since there is no reason why this process should stop with us, it is fully realistic to expect that individuals of much older civilizations must be genetically more intelligent than us. But there is an even stronger argument supporting the views that the older the civilization, the more intelligent the individuals: As the civilizations would reach some mastery in the field of genetic engineering, the general tendency would be to 'improve' themselves, that is their own species (among many others species) giving rise to an acceleration of biological evolution at unimaginable rates. Now there is a crucial question. If the Solar System is part of a large hypercivilization, why we do not detect any signs of civilization from outer space at all? My answer is related to my views that aggressive advanced civilizations must exist: Generically, all advanced enough civilizations camouflage their planets for security reasons, because of the existence of aggressive advanced civilizations, so that no sign of civilization (or any other form of life) can be detected by external observers, who would only obtain distorted data for disuasion purposes. This hypothesis I call the Undetectability Conjecture [8]. Observe that this conjecture predicts a rather low probability of success for the SETI (search for extraterrestrial intelligence) project. The reason is that only primitive civilizations able to produce electromagnetic emissions would be susceptible to being detected by the SETI antennas. But after reaching the level of producing electromagnetic emissions it would take only a few hundred years for a civilization to learn to hide themselves from external observers, becoming undetectable. As a result, the period of detectability of an average civilization could be very short and the probability that a primitive civilization, like ours, detects another primitive civilization would be negligible. For example, it could have happened that planet Earth received the last TV or radio programs from another planet 200.000 years ago, for a period of about 500 years. Observe also that, if the Undetectability Conjecture turns out to be true, then we cannot be sure whether the terrestrial civilization is the unique civilization inhabitating the Solar System, as we firmly believe. The reason is that in the astronomical observations of planets and satellites we scientists assume that there are no intelligent beings there manipulating the data that we receive, and then we conclude that there is no signal of intelligent life, as the data prove. But this assumption could turn out to be wrong because advanced civilizations would be technologically able to fool our telescopes, detectors and space probes, and would not allow themselves to be detected. The relevance of this solution to the Fermi Paradox for our planet and, especially, for our civilization, depends strongly on when, how long ago, the Solar System was taken over by extraterrestrial hypercivilizations (this could have happened more than once since our galaxy is very old). - If the Solar System was visited already thousands of millions of years ago: Planet Earth could have undergone insemination procedures, together with many other 'promising' planets, as suggested by Thomas Gold and Francis Crick. As a result, all terrestrial living beings would have common building blocks of DNA with the living beings of thousands of other planets which would have undergone similar insemination procedures with the same bacteria. Consequently, many plants and animals, including our own species, could have been brought to Earth (at any time in history or prehistory) and their extraterrestrial origin would be impossible to detect by any biologist or geneticist. Moreover, at present, we probably would have countless 'relatives' in many planets, what has advantages (possibility of positive, closer relationships) but also disadvantages (predators). Not to mention the high probability that many past and present species, including ourselves, could have resulted from genetic manipulation simply as a rutine procedure for the improvement of the planet. (I am convinced that advanced and not-so-advanced civilizations widely make use of genetic engineering to improve all the species around, including themselves, as I mentioned before.) - If the Solar System was first encountered only when life on Earth was well developed (for example, a few million years ago): It is still very probable that many present species would have resulted from genetic manipulation by the 'owners' of the Solar System for the general improvement of the planet; that is, among many other improvements like getting rid of unwanted species or ameliorations of geological type. (Observe that the sudden appearance of the homo sapiens sapiens species some 40.000 years ago is still a complete mystery for science.) - If the Solar System was first encountered only after homo sapiens sapiens had appeared: This hypercivilization must have found our species 'good enough' so that they did not try any genetic improvements on us. This does not mean, however, that they would have adopted a complete non-interference policy with respect to human affairs. In fact, if my scenario is correct and the Solar System belongs to the territory of a non-aggressive hypercivilization, I strongly suspect that this civilization treats us as a protected species and cares about us. As a result, they could well have decided to help us, discretely, many times in history and prehistory regarding our social, cultural, scientific, etc. evolution, apart from protecting us and the planet from several dangers of various types: large meteorites, predators from outer space, nuclear accidents, extremely devastating earthquakes, etc. Therefore my solution to the Fermi Paradox is compatible with the speculations that some UFO's could be true alien spacecrafts, whereas some 'gods descending from the sky', for the benefit of mankind, could have been alien astronauts. However, I would not call them alien astronauts but extraterrestrial scientists and extraterrestrial military personnel instead, since working in their own territory, they would not be truly astronauts nor aliens. My solution is also compatible with the possibility of more general close contacts between individuals of the hypercivilizations and primitive individuals like us, besides the 'gods descending from the sky' issue. I have identified three major causes or reasons which could motivate individuals of advanced civilizations to seek interactions or relationships with primitive individuals: scientific purposes, entertainment/affection purposes and criminal purposes (for the details see [8]). The 'gods descending from the sky' could simply correspond to various scientific teams, assisted by military personnel, sent by the government in order to help develop the terrestrial primitive civilization. 5 Brane World Cosmologies To finish I would like to make some comments about brane world cosmologies. In the last seven years brane world models have been of increasing interest for both Particle Physics and Cosmology [9] [10]. They put forward the possibility that our Universe with three space dimensions is located in a subspace (brane) of a higher dimensional Cosmos. These models allow large, and even infinite, extra dimensions4 and they offer the possibility to solve, or view from a newly different perspective, many longstanding problems in Particle Physics and Cosmology (see [11] for brane world reviews). Brane world cosmologies have the potential to dramatically strengthen the Fermi Paradox. Namely, if our observable Universe is embedded in a much larger Cosmos there may exist other universes along the extra spatial dimensions which could be parallel to our own, or intersecting it somewhere. Then it would be natural to expect that some of these universes would have the same laws of Physics as ours and many of the corresponding advanced civilizations could master techniques to travel or 'jump' through the extra dimensions for visitation or colonization purposes. Moreover, one has to take into account that many of these universes could be very close to ours, even at only one millimeter distance along an extra dimension. 4Previously, in theories and models of Particle Physics extra dimensions were only allowed if they were compactified with a very tiny radius. This opens up enormous possibilities regarding the expansion of advanced civilizations simultaneously through several universes with the same laws of Physics, resulting in multidimensional empires. It could even happen that the expansion to other 'parallel' galaxies through extra dimensions could be easier, with lower cost, than the expansion inside one's own galaxy. In particular, the 'owners' of the Solar System (if they exist) could have come from another universe and could have created a huge empire with large pieces of territory in several 'parallel' galaxies. At present we physicists are still in a premature phase in the study of brane worlds and we do not know whether these ideas are in fact realistic. Nevertheless, the idea of large extra dimensions and parallel universes is acquiring greater and greater importance in the scientific community, among both theoreticians and experimentalists. As a matter of fact, the experimental signatures expected from large extra dimensions, at present and future colliders, are well understood by now [12] and an intense experimental search is currently under way. For example, experiments starting in 2007 at the LHC (Large Hadron Collider) at CERN will be looking, among other things, for signatures of large extra dimensions. 6 Final Remarks One final remark. I am convinced that the main feature of the scenario that I propose: the existence of primitive subcivilizations embedded in large hypercivilizations spanning vast regions of the galaxies, is true at present and/or has been true in the past and/or will be true in the future in most or all galaxies in our universe and in any other possible universes with the same laws of Physics as ours. Whether our terrestrial civilization is actually a subcivilization completely unaware of the existence of the large hypercivilization is something to be discovered in the future. This will happen either due to some advanced technology that would allow us to discard this possibility some hundreds of years from now (if we do not annihilate ourselves first), or through the decision of our hosts, provided they exist, of showing their faces openly, which could happen long before. Acknowledgements I would like to thank the organizers of the World Mystery Forum 2005 for inviting me to this beautiful and interesting place. Finally, I am indebted to my friends Linda Champion and Maite Fern=B4andez for many interesting conversations and also to Linda for the English corrections to this text. Appendix: Questions and Answers - Why do you say that the open contact with the hypercivilization would destroy our civilization? This is very easy to understand. Imagine how we would feel if the citizens of the hypercivilization happen to live 1.000 years and, in addition, always looking young. We would feel devastated, right? I can imagine pathetic demonstrations all over the world demanding 'our right' to live 1.000 years as well. What about if they explain to us that we are allowed to live on planet Earth because of their kindness and hospitality? Also, we need to believe in ourselves, in our capabilities to make progress, to build the future. This psychological need would crash in contact with a far superior civilization and far superior intelligent beings and we would only feel worthless and stupid, especially scientists, but everybody else as well (for example, the gap between them and us, regarding brain capabilities, could be bigger than the corresponding gap between us and the gorillas). Not to mention the shock we would receive if they had created our species by genetic engineering and they would tell us. It is difficult to predict who would feel more offended under such circumstances: the fundamentalist creationists, the intelligent design advocates, the plain hard- core darwinists or the ecologists. As for myself, I find this last issue quite harmless in fact because, as I said, I am completely convinced that advanced civilizations widely use genetic manipulation on all species around, including themselves. Thus, if an advanced civilization has created the homo sapiens sapiens, then I am pretty sure that the individuals of this civilization have also resulted from genetic manipulations of their own ancestors who in turn have a high chance to have resulted from genetic manipulation by a much older alien civilization, who in turn were manipulated by their own ancestors, etc. It could even happen that at present there is not a single species that remains 'virgin', free of genetic manipulation, in our whole galaxy nor in most typical galaxies5. So, regarding the possibility that we have been created by scientists of an advanced civilization I feel like in that joke where somebody is on the phone: 'This is a recording. Doesn't bother me, I'm a hologram'. - Do you think could it be possible that some of the parallel universes that you mentioned could be inhabitated by angels and other spiritual beings? I must say that I have been asked this question many times already. At the present stage, our scientific knowledge can neither prove nor disprove the existence of angels and other spiritual beings described in our traditions. My opinion is that, if these 5This scenario would constitute the ultimate nightmare for ecologists! beings happen to exist, I would expect to find them inhabitating parallel universes with different laws of Physics than ours. The crucial point is the laws of Physics that hold in a particular universe. Unfortunately we only know one universe and one set of laws of Physics, which renders our knowledge very limited and 'provincial'. Nevertheless, we particle physicists assume that if something would enter our universe from another universe with different laws of Physics then the matter of this something and the matter of our universe would almost not interact (perhaps only gravitationally). As a consequence this something would be invisible for most of us and would go through our 'solid' matter (walls, ceilings) effortlessly, as the angels and other spiritual beings are supposed to do, right? I say 'most of us' instead of 'all of us' because the existence of special psychic capabilities, such as telepathy, has not been discarded yet and therefore it could happen that specially- gifted people could see and/or communicate telepathically with beings coming from such universes with different laws of Physics than ours. These beings would include, in particular, plain extraterrestrials (not especially spiritual) coming from other universes just for scientific or other mundane purposes. As a matter of fact, a good question for a psychically-gifted person (or for a cat!)6 would be how he/she/it can distinguish 'who is who' among the entities he/she/it is supposed to see. I already asked this question to a reader of my article who told me that other dimensions and parallel universes truly exist because he can see, and sometimes communicate with, intelligent beings coming from them. So I asked him what these beings look like and how he can distinguish among them. He said: 'I see different types of entities, including angels, although most of them are human beings in their 'astral bodies' (either alive or dead). I have rarely seen extraterrestrials, but I don't know if they were in their physical bodies from another universe, as you suggest. I have the impression that they were in their astral bodies, in the same way that astral travellers among us visit other planets as well.7 One distinguishes these entities by their general appearance: body, face, clothing and also the aura. In addition, alive beings in their astral bodies have some sort of 'silvery cord' that connects them with their physical bodies, although it can be 6Cats have the reputation of having great psychic powers and of being able to see all kinds of entities invisible to the human eye. The aforementioned T. Lobsang Rampa even claimed that his book 'Living with the Lama' had been written by one of his cats who dictated the contents to him telepathically, the introduction being written by another cat. 7The astral body is supposed to be able to travel many orders of magnitude faster than light. This would not contradict any known laws of Physics, though, because the astral body would not be made out of matter/energy of this universe, but out of matter/energy of the 'astral universes', which would have very different laws of Physics. The high speed and low cost of astral travel would not be the only advantages with respect to exploration of outer space: astral astronauts could also approach stars and black holes as much as they wanted, and even jump inside, returning back safely without suffering any damage (the astral body is supposed not to feel gravity, having the tendency to float instead). very faint and difficult to spot'. Then I asked him whether it would be possible to confuse an angel or any other 'spiritual being' with an extraterrestrial visiting us from another universe. He said: 'Yes, it could be possible because angels and all spiritual beings create their appearance at will with their minds (face, body, clothing, wings on and off, etc.). Angels like to look like handsome human-like beings (whether terrestrial or extraterrestrial). For this reason angels watching over ugly extraterrestrial humanoids also look very ugly, according to our taste, although very beautiful for them. So, it would be possible to confuse 'ugly' angels with equally ugly aliens, and the other way around, very handsome extraterrestrials may look like beautiful angels for us'. - There are many reports of 'extraterrestrials' who look like pure-energy beings of light without bodies. Do you think that all the extraterrestrials could be in fact disembodied beings? Also, do you think that in the future we could become like these beings of light, too? These questions are related to the previous one. First of all, there are also many reports about extraterrestrials with physical, solid bodies. For example, today Ed Mitchell, lunar module pilot of Apollo 14, reported that the Roswell incident was true and one of the aliens on board was still alive when the spacecraft was found by the USA military8. So I don't see any reason to think that all possible extraterrestrials around (if any!) must lack a physical body. On the other hand, I do not believe in the existence of disembodied beings at all, although perhaps there are entities which are visiting our universe and have a body from another universe with different laws of Physics. This is why we could not see their bodies and they could go through walls and ceilings! And the other way around, these beings would not be capable of seeing our bodies either unless they had that psychic capability, provided this capability exists at all. So, to me this is very simple: all intelligent beings who happen to exist (be human-like, or animal-like or angel-like, etc.) have a body (at least one!)9, no matter from which universe they come, and these bodies are solid and well visible to the inhabitants of their own universes, or another universes with the same laws of Physics as their own. About the second question, if you ask if our biological species could evolve towards 'pure-energy beings of light' in this physical universe, the answer is no. I do not 8In July 1947 the military base near Roswell (New Mexico, USA) issued a press release announcing that they had captured an alien spacecraft that had crashed nearby. Three days later they retracted their statement: the alien spacecraft was only an atmospheric baloon. 9The metaphysical 'standard model' says that human beings (terrestrial and extraterrestrial) have seven bodies: physical, etheric, astral, mental and the three superior bodies, each belonging to a different universe or 'plane of existence'. Animals have the four inferior bodies whereas angels and all other 'spiritually advanced' beings have only the three superior bodies. believe that the laws of Physics of this, or any other, universe will ever allow the emergence of disembodied intelligent beings. As a matter of fact, your question fits better in metaphysics than in ordinary science. In the metaphysical 'standard model' all conscious beings (human beings, animals, angels, etc.) are just visitors of the universes they inhabitate. The reason would be that consciousness cannot be created in any universe, no matter the laws of Physics. For example, this implies that nobody in any universe could ever construct a robot or computer that could become conscious. Individual consciousness would have been separated, not created, from an enormous ocean of consciousness that has always existed, without beginning and without end, and is the ultimate cause for the existence of everything else. So, following these views, since our consciousness cannot emerge from any complex system (such as our brain), it turns out that we are all aliens in the universes we inhabit and our bodies are nothing but the astronaut suits necessary to live in these universes. Coming back to your question, in the metaphysical standard model, we human beings are supposed to live many lives in 'physical universes', where the mind has very little power over matter, working very hard, and resting in between in 'astral universes', where it is always vacation time because the mind can create all the basic needs: housing, furniture, clothing... Now, after many incarnations in the physical and astral universes we can be promoted to better, more spiritual universes where the power of the mind over matter is much stronger than in the astral universes. This way, we would become spiritual 'beings of light' without any physical, etheric and astral bodies, although we would still have the more superior bodies made out of the matter/energy of the more spiritual universes we would inhabit. These bodies would be invisible for most inhabitants of the physical universes and also for most inhabitants of the astral universes. - Did you have any unusual experiences yourself that motivated the writ- ing of your article? Not directly; I have never seen a UFO, nor have I tried to see one or to get in contact with aliens, as some people do. Indirectly, I had a most unusual experience more than twenty years ago that has been a source of inspiration indeed, although the true motivation to write the article was simply to reply to the ideas of the cosmologist Ken Olum, as I explain in detail in the article. - What kind of experience did you have? Could you say something about it? This is a rather long story. In May 1984 a cousin of mine invited me for coffe at her place and she also invited an old friend of hers. She warned me about the possibility of hearing strange statements because her friend was in contact with extraterrestrials for several years already. At her place the conversation was revolving around normal matters. He was a completely normal-looking guy with a normal job. After one hour or so we brought up the subject of summer vacations. At his turn he said, with a completely normal voice and straight face: 'I will go with my friends in July, we have already arranged things. We will be a couple of days in the bases of the Moon and then they will bring me three weeks to Ganymede10 again. Last summer I spent some days in Confraternity City, where there is a terrestrial colony of about 12.000 people. They have a very interesting museum of History of Earth, where you can see the bodies of the prophet Elijah and the patriarch Enoch. They were living in Ganymede for hundreds of years until they died'. Although I didn't believe a word and I really thought he was crazy, I tried to show some interest, mainly out of politeness (he was very polite himself), and so I started asking some questions. I asked how the view of Jupiter was from Ganymede, how long it takes to travel to the Moon and to Ganymede, how many people inhabit the satellite and what his friends look like. His answers were: 'Jupiter is enormous, it covers almost the whole sky', 'The trip to the Moon takes only two or three minutes, to Ganymede it depends on the spacecraft. In standard ones the trip takes a bit more than three days whereas in cylinder-shaped motherships the trip takes only three hours'. 'There are about two and a half million people in Ganymede, that they call Morlen, distributed mainly in five cities. In Crystal City is the government of Morlen as well as the government of the Confederation to which Morlen belongs. It is a Confederation of the 24 more advanced worlds in our galaxy and the government is called the Council of the 24 Elderly'. 'My friends from the bases on Earth are mainly from Ganymede, although you can meet people from the other 23 worlds as well. Most of them look similar, although taller or shorter depending on which world they come from. In general they are very handsome (angel-looking faces) with long blond hair, white skin and light-colored big eyes (a bit oblique), and most of them look like 40 years old, although they can be 300, 600, 800 years old since they can live until 1.200 (terrestrial) years and they master anti-aging technology. The most impressive-looking ones are the giants from planet Apu, in Alpha Centauri, who are about three meters tall and in addition wear very long, almost white hair. My friends from Ganymede are also quite tall: more than two meters'. At that moment I replied back: 'So, they are quite similar to us, although taller and more handsome, and in addition they are the most evolved people in our galaxy. What a coincidence! How lucky we are that we have such wonderful neighbors!' Then he said with a serious expression: 'This is not a coincidence, I am affraid, but 10Ganymede, one of the moons of Jupiter is also the largest satellite in the Solar System, larger than the planets Mercury and Pluto. I prefer not to give you the details. You are still too young and you wouldn't be able to handle the facts. Just let me tell you that they arrived at this part of the galaxy: Alpha Centauri, the Solar System, the Pleyades, etc. almost three million years ago. They established themselves in artificial colonies without any natural life, so they constructed their worlds completely from scratch. They didn't bring animals along and therefore they only have plants and are vegetarian'. Then I asked him how he got in contact with his friends and how they could understand each other. He said: 'They contacted me; I had never been interested in UFO's and extraterrestrials'. 'They have three glands inside the brain that we don't have. One of them produces very strong telepathic capabilities, so they do not speak with the mouth, only by telepathy. It is very easy to understand them because they speak a 'universal language' that is converted inside the receptor's brain into his/her mother tongue. For this reason they don't use technological devices for communications either, like phones or radios, they communicate exclusively by telepathy, even from one planet to another'. Then he gave us the advice that we should never try to get in touch with aliens: 'There are some very dangerous humanoids, who come from another universe, that do horrible things to us. Although some groups of people have been lucky and have entered into telepathic communication with people from the Confederation, including some of my friends, the risk of getting the wrong extraterrestrials is high'. Then I asked: 'What do you mean by another universe, do you mean that they come from another galaxy? No, I mean another universe. There are 22 dimensions, not just the three that we know in our universe. For this reason there are lots of universes. These guys live in a universe nearby. The entrance to our universe is very close to the Solar System and once they enter they only have to travel for three days to reach Earth. They are not allowed to come here, of course, but they do it anyway. So, these guys are a real nightmare for my friends who do their best to chase them away. In fact, they have crashed more than once during the persecutions because their technology is far below the technology of the Confederation. Otherwise they would have taken over the planet and made us their slaves'. Finally I asked him whether he knew if all the universes are like ours. He said that the universe of the intruders is like ours, unfortunately, but as far as he had heard, many universes are different than ours. I never saw him again (nor did I want to!). I had no doubts that he had a deep psychiatric illness whereas my cousin defended him saying that she had known him very well for many years and he was neither a liar nor crazy, therefore the story had to be true, no matter what. For the following fourteen years or so I did not think at all about the subject of extraterrestrial civilizations. Unexpectedly, one day around 1998 the subject came up somehow when talking to my friend Maite at her place. Then she showed me a couple of curious books about alleged contacts. One of the books, 'Los Manuscritos de Geenom (II)' (The Manuscripts of Geenom (II)) was written by a group based in Madrid, the Aztl=B4an group, which claimed to be in telepathic communication, once per week and for about twenty years already, with some citizens of planet Apu (the communications were supposed to be transmitted from planet to planet). The other book had for its title 'Yo visit=B4e Gan=B4=FDmedes' (I visited Ganymede), by Yosip Ibrahim. So, suddenly I got 'teletransported' back to the coffee session fourteen years earlier. I read these two books and, for the first time, I realized that I had never spent a single minute in my life thinking seriously about the subject of extraterrestrial civilizations, even though I had always been open-minded regarding the possibility of alien visitors. I became aware that this issue could be much more important and have much more far-reaching consequences than I, and most open-minded people, naively could have imagined. After spending some time thinking about this issue I reached the conclusion that it was not possible to discard the scenario described by the friend of my cousin, no matter how strange it seemed to me. There were only two crucial questions to be answered: Would a civilization, millions of years ahead of us, be able to colonize places like the large satellites of Jupiter? and, would such a civilization be able to completely conceal itself from external observers? My answer to these two questions was undoubtedly positive. In the following two years Maite and I read a few more books [13] about the Confederation-Apu-Ganymede affair, for our own records, and that was all. It never crossed my mind to write an article about primitive versus advanced civilizations, and even less to try to find the 'truth' about the whole issue. However, in March 2003 the article by Ken Olum [14] appeared in the scientific archives and triggered my attention again to the subject. He was saying that our small terrestrial civilization should be part of a galactic civilization spanning a large region of the galaxy, as followed from his computations, but however we are not part of such a civilization, as observation confirms. Needless to say, this article provoked deep feelings in me, even though I didn't agree with Olum's arguments. So I started thinking seriously again about the issue and shortly after I had the ideas of the Subanthropic Principle and the Undetectability Conjecture. Then I decided to write an article discussing the possibility that our terrestrial civilization could be embedded in a large advanced civilization without being aware of it. References [1] C.H. Lineweaver, Y. Fenner, and B.K. Gibson, 'The galactic habitable zone and the age distribution of complex life in the Milky Way', Science 303, 59, 2004. [2] I. Crawford, 'Where are they?', Scientific American, July 2000 [3] L. Pauwels and J. Bergier, Le Matin des Magiciens (Morning of the Magicians), 1960. E. von Daniken, Erinnerungen an die Zukunft (Chariots of the Gods), 1967. [4] J.W. Deardorff, 'Possible extraterrestrial strategy for Earth', Q. J. R. Astron. Soc., 27, 94, 1986. [5] W.I. Newman and C. Sagan, 'Galactic civilizations: Population dynamics and interstellar diffusion', Icarus 46, 293, 1981. [6] R. Jastrow in videos of the series 'The Universe of Stephen Hawking', 1996. [7] C. Vafa, private communication. [8] B. Gato-Rivera, 'Brane Worlds, the Subanthropic Principle and the Undetectability Conjecture', physics/0308078, 2003. [9] N. Arkani-Hamed, S. Dimopoulos and G.R. Dvali, Phys. Lett. B429, 263, 1998; Phys. Rev. D 59, 86004, 1999; Phys. Today 55N2, 35, 2002. [10] L. Randall and R. Sundrum, Phys. Rev. Lett. 83, 4690, 1999. [11] R. Maartens, Living Rev. Rel. 7, 1, 2004. I. Antoniadis, Eur. Phys. J. C 33, S914, 2004. C. Csaki, 'TASI lectures on extra dimensions and branes', hep-ph/0404096. V. Rubakov, Phys. Ups. 44, 871, 2001. D. Langlois, Prog. Theor. Phys. Suppl. 148, 181, 2003. [12] G.F. Giudice, R. Rattazzi and J.D. Wells, Nucl. Phys. B 544, 3, 1999. E. A. Mirabelli, M. Perelstein and M.E. Peskin, Phys. Rev. Lett. 82, 2236, 1999. K. M. Cheung and W.Y. Keung, Phys. Rev. D 60, 112003, 1999. [13] Y. Ibrahim, Mi preparaci=B4on para Gan=B4=FDmedes, 1975. J.J. Benitez, OVNIS: SOS a la Humanidad, 1975. Grupo Aztl=B4an, Los Manuscritos de Geenom (I), 1993. J.A. Campoy, Entrevista a un Extraterrestre: Geenom, 1997. S. Paz Wells, Mensajeros del Cosmos. Una Puerta hacia las Estrellas, 1999. [14] K. Olum, 'Conflict between anthropic reasoning and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 16 Lights Above Clouds Still Pose A Mystery From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:13:29 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:13:29 -0500 Subject: Lights Above Clouds Still Pose A Mystery Source: The Cannock Chase - Cannock, Staffordshire, UK http://tinyurl.com/8fggm Dec 14 2005 Lights Above Clouds Still Pose A Mystery Mystery still surrounds strange lights in the sky, although some local folk have come forward with possible explanations. Some people agree they are not UFOs, but there are differing opinions about where the eerie lights are coming from. Last week The Post reported strange goingson above the clouds, spotted by several Burntwood folk. Coloured lights, sweeping left to right and back again across the skies, were spotted by many alarmed local residents who contacted The Post. But a Great Wyrley Royal Mail worker says the lights are coming from a Walsall nightclub which shoots a beam into the sky. Although he can't explain why the beam cannot be seen until it is above the clouds, he says he's sure the source comes from a club in Bradford Street, Walsall. Royal Mail employee Tony Jenkins, aged 55, said: "You can see it sweeping the sky. I'm surprised the council allows it." But Burntwood councillor/historian Ron Bradbury said: "I am at a loss why experts are baffled by the lights. This is a perfectly natural thing at this time of year." Cllr Bradbury said the phenomena is the Northern Lights. "I saw them in November last year at Durham where they were a wonderful sight, and as we get nearer to Christmas they will be seen farther south," he said. "This far south they look more like lightning flashes in the clouds. As Cannock Chase is quite dark compared to the town, things of this nature can be seen more easily. "That is why Stafford Astronomical Club watch the skies from the Chase. One can see satellites passing over on clear nights quite distinctly, looking like superfast flying airplanes to the unwary." Cllr Bradbury added, he once witnessed a 'UFO' - which turned out to be Sir Richard Branson flying an airship too low over Erdington. "There is usually an explanation - if one looks for it," he said. Following last week's report, The Post received many reports from local folk. Paul Bryan, aged 43, from Chasetown, said the sweeping lights were 'like war films'. "But I think they come from a picture house or nightclub," he said. A resident living near Hammerwich Hospital who saw the lights at 3.30am said: "There was no beam from the ground and no sound." She said she wondered whether it was anything to do with the M6 Toll. Chasetown resident Kate Gough added: "I saw the lights two nights in a row and about four times in total. "I haven't got a clue what they are."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: 1 In 3 Americans Believe In UFOs? - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:37:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:33:07 -0500 Subject: Re: 1 In 3 Americans Believe In UFOs? - Chichikov >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 23:24:33 -0600 >Subject: Re: 1 In 3 Americans Believe In UFOs? <snip> >Happy generic holidays to all! And a blessed Christmas to all believers - and even to those who are not.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - Rainey From: Carol Rainey <csrainey1.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:45:14 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:36:09 -0500 Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - Rainey >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:28:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: Carol Rainey <csrainey1.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:01:25 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:30:11 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>According to the article below, photos of the Kecksburg UFO were >>>taken by a radio news reporter at the time which were shown to >>>at least one person before he was killed. His death reminded me >>>of Dr. John Mack, Dr. Nick Spanos and others who knew a lot >>>about UFOs and who met similar "accidental" fates. >>>http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/s_161683.html <snip> >>John Mack, wherever he is right now, would be laughing ruefully >>at the discussion underway that he's been done in for his >>metaphysical/mystical interests in the phenomenon. Hardly the >>stuff of government assassination. <snip> >By not considering such sinister possibilities we do what is >expected of us by those whose evil and selfish actions keep us >enslaved and deprived the world of the truth. Hi, Nick, No, of course I can't say with certainty that John was not done in by some unseen, unknown persons who felt he was a threat to the status quo. I didn't mean to speak so categorically. But I feel a bit impatient with conspiracy theories on this level. If my husband Budd Hopkins gets sick or injured, I don't immediately suspect that someone out there has deliberately caused those ill effects because of his work with the phenomenon. I step outside the - at times - rather claustrophobic (forgive me) environment of the UFO community and regard the events in light of pure human experience. People get ill and people have accidents and people die and, without evidence of deliberate malfeasance, why go for the most complex explanation? Science urges us to look at the most limpid explanation first.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Kenneth Arnold's Daughter? From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:49:51 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:38:41 -0500 Subject: Kenneth Arnold's Daughter? Dear List members, Do any of you have a contact point for Kenneth Arnold's daughter, please?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:48:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:41:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:56:06 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:58:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>If NASA records, then you are likely out of luck because of the >>distance in time and poor preservation methods used. The >>original guy who had the boxes sent to storage is likely dead >>and his "storage forms" thrown out after he died. Even the >>inventory records would either be discolored/illegible or >>missing. The box may be mouldering somewhere with thousands of >>others (its label discolored/fallen off). Its too much to expect >>a pristine archival of all NASA documents and other items. The >>best you can do is to actually get permission to go to the >>archival facility and manually got through every box. >Why is too much to expect NASA to know where its stuff is? Why >would it be "mouldering?" Why would all the labels be fallen >off? Does that go for all their documents too? It seems like you >want to provide excuses for NASA _not_ to locate what it might >have. People don't understand the sorry state of affairs in the archival activities in the government in general and NASA in particular. This applies to personal, project documents and data files and images from various space projects. If the document 'sets' are sent to a institutional library, then there is some hope in preserving the records over multi-decades. Libraries usually have limited room for this kind of stuff so only a small portion of major records are kept there. If the documents 'sets' are classified or restricted, then there is some hope it is in safes or secure and climate controlled storage somewhere even after decades. The problem is that retention of records at NASA/government is a confused proposition. Guidelines may exist but they are not followed or respected. Projects and programs may keep records (at a library), but personal records for small effort activities are archived willy-nilly. There is a formal archiving activity which few people would bother with. Even those cannot be kept forever and must be reviewed periodically and if the reviewer is retired or dead, likely disposed. Most people will keep what is important to them and throw out the rest. And the filing system for the decades old records cannot be assumed to be reliable. Without the records saying where the box of archived files are, the box of archived files may as well not exist (like Raider's of the Lost Ark , if the record on where the Ark is is lost, then it can't be found in the piles of wooden boxes). As to mouldering, the places they stick the old records are not pristine and NOT climate controlled. Rats, dampness and other things enter in. While not underwater, such an environment plays havoc to decades old ink and boxes and paper on the outside of a box. I suggest you ask NASA to go through all their archived boxes for the files you want. May take a decade to go through. >If you are interested in getting the debris, the news story also >mentioned that Donald Shepherd ,the Spring Valley School >principal in Elyria, Oh, was given one of the pieces of debris. Did someone check if this dude is still alive and see if he kept his relic? >>My personal feeling is that a father saw his son looking for the >>debris and dug out some slag for him to find. >Now you are talking like a debunker. The witness (one of the >three boys) I spoke to said they saw the pieces dropping from >the sky into a field and _immediately_ went to pick them up. >They were still warm when they found them. Where did you get the >idea that a father was somehow involved? He wasn't there. Well, I was talking about the Elyria pieces. They never said they saw the things fall, but felt the items were still "warm" (after being on the ground overnight!). It think this is highly unlikely given thermal conduction and convection rates and likely cold temps in December. Of course, if it was radioactive, then it might still be warm. The Chronicle Telegram, Elyria, Ohio, Dec 11, 1965 (final edition) says the following: "...Joe Kovacs found the first piece in the backyard at his home before going to school yesterday morning. He launched his search after hearing radio reports about the fireball, he explained. "Joe, his twin brother and yound Shue joined forces yesterday afternoon to continue the search." "Bryan found two pieces in his own front yard and three more in the Kovacs backyard while Mike found three more in the Kovacs yard." So much for finding the meteor _immediately_ after seeing it fall. I am simply trying to put myself in the time and place. Here you have a few kids running around all excited trying to find a piece of meteor and being disappointed by not finding anything and a father sees them doing this and places the pieces of warmed up slag there for them to find. The other option is that over the decades of using old heaters, this slag was thrown out into the yards. The other option is that kids found these neat metal stones elsewhere in the past and tossed them around and forgot about them. >Yes, all these are potential leads that could to be followed up >on. (It's just rather difficult 40 years after the fact.) The >claim, however, from two papers in science journals I've read >(one below) was that no meteorites were ever found. That's very >odd considering the many widespread reports of the object >breaking up and debris seen raining down, plus people saying >they picked the stuff up. Elyria was just one example. One would >_expect_ meteorites to be found if this was a meteor fireball. It needs to be followed up on. Some of these folk surely kept their finds. >>The best story I found was in the Valley Independent, >>Monongahela Valley, Penn, Dec 10, 1965 - it was a UPI story out >>of Pittsburg, I can see how a legend started: >Well I can see where you're going with this. So it's a "legend," >is it? Everybody who saw or heard something much further east in >Ohio or Pennsylvania merely imagined it. Don't be so sensitive. If I were reading the article I quoted about the reported behavior at Kecksburg, then I would think something was going on to! "Legend" is in the sense of "Noteworthy". >>Sources at the Pentagon indicated Thursday they believed the >>orange flash was a meteorite. >And now a NASA spokesman says it wasn't a meteor after all but a >"Russian satellite." So who's got the story right? I think NASA was guessing, they don't know. >>Officials at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, >>refused to speculate about what the object might have been. "A >>spokesman for the NorthAmerican Air Defense Command at >>ColoradoSprings, Col.,said Norad tracking stations did not track >>theflash of light but said if it was a meteorite it would have >>shown up on their radar scopes. >Again, no meteor according to this. This was a problem. If a satellite or meteor, it should have shown up on scopes. But then, we must trust them to tell us the truth right? >>National Guard and Air Force personnel both denied early >>reports that the flash came from a rocket fired in Ohio. I had found this funny. But post 9-11, maybe it wouldn't have been. >James, instead of dismissing Pennsylvania accounts as "legends," >I think it would be more productive for both of us to compare >notes offline, since it seems you have compiled a decent >collection of newspaper reports that would complement mine. The >point is to try to rule out the impossible and figure out what >really happened. NASA nows says it wasn't a meteor, so what was >it really? "Legend" was not meant that it wasn't true. I know something happened there so that is not legend. Having a number of Air Force use Gieger counters in one specific area in Penn. can easily spawn a Legend. Maybe it was a meteor or satellite or UFO. But without those Air Force guys, there would been less chance of the legend of Kecksburg taking off. If you want to go off-line, fine. I was thinking others might be interested in this too. Am I right other readers? Do you want us to go offline or hear more? Want I am really hoping for is to get someone interested enough to go up to these other folk and see if their pieces still exist (sitting on the fireplace mantle) so that they can be analyzed. If they have stories of MIBs (or NASA or Air Force) taking their
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Bueche From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:27:49 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:45:27 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Bueche How best to convey the erroneous impression that alien encounters are only recalled under leading hypnosis? How about by showing a middle aged couple sputtering and whimpering under hypnosis? That is how CNN's Gary Tuchman chose to lead off his Friday report on alien encounters, enabled by Derrel Sims (identified only as "The Hypnotist", but it looks like Sims). ----- "Aien abduction?" CNN's Gary Tuchman looks at the phenomenon of people claiming they were abducted by aliens (December 16) http://tinyurl.com/cz5fb -----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:52:35 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:47:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:56:06 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:58:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:01 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>Also, various papers indicated an astronomer solicited the >>public for sighting data, so he might have this data somewhere. >>His name was "von del chamberlain", an astronomer at Michigan >>State Univeristy. >Yes, he and David J. Krause wrote an article for the Royal >Astronomical Society of Canada Journal in 1967 saying it was a >meteor. The main result of the paper was a trajectory that ended >up being at right angles to a trajectory that can be deduced >from gathering eye witness reports over a large area. They >further claimed that the whole event lasted only a few seconds >and ended over the western end of Lake Erie near Detroit and >Windsor. >This paper is a staple of Kecksburg debunkers (like James Oberg >and Bob Young) who claim that it absolutely proved that the >fireball never pointed in the direction of Pennsylvania or that >anything happened across northern Ohio or western Pennsylvania. >All the witness who say otherwise were all lying or imagining >things (including all the people in western Penn. who phoned in >reports of sonic booms to the state police - oddly this is never >discussed in Kecksburg debunking articles). >But how conclusive are the results really? The paper's >conclusions were entirely based on a triangulation of the path >from two points on the smoke trail from only two photos. The >photos weren't taken that far apart, creating a narrow >triangulation base. This means that even tiny errors in the >measurements of the directions on the photos could create a >radically different trajectory. Examples of such potential >errors would be getting their compass directions slightly wrong >or getting one or both photo spots wrong by only a few feet, >which could similarly throw off directions on the photos by >easily a degree or two. A small size scaling error in one or >both photos could again throw direction measurements off just a >tiny bit. Another possible source of error would be wind shear, >since the photos weren't taken simultaneously but approximately >a minute or so apart. >I found when I analyzed this that it would take less than 2 >degrees error overall to change their SW to NE trajectory to one >at right angles to this, from the NW to SE. Despite this, there >is zero discussion of potential error in this paper. At the very >least, there should have been error bars on the directions. (No >measurements like this in real life are ever perfect.) Draw an >error cone only 1 degree in radius around their directions and >it becomes immediately apparent that the trajectory could have >varied over about 230 degrees! Thus their trajectory is hardly >conclusive at all. No wonder it disagrees so sharply with >eyewitness reports much further to the east. A correction here: With +/- 1 degree of error in determination of triangulation directions, the range of possible trajectories could vary over about 150 degrees, not 230. I just did a little further analysis and found that the error could be as little as +/- 0.5 degrees, and this would still accommodate a straight-line Kecksburg trajectory at nearly right-angles to the trajectory Chamberlain/Krause claimed for the fireball. BTW, a debunking article by CSICOP's Robert Scheaffer, (of course treating the paper's results as unquestionable church dogma) can be found at: http://www.debunker.com/Kecksburg.html Scheaffer's article is useful in showing one of the photos of the trail used for the triangulation. Also there is a link to the original R.A.S.C. journal article (in .pdf format), unfortunately with poor quality photos, but with a useful diagram of the triangulation. You can copy the triangulation diagram and use your paint program to put in direction errors of varying amounts and verify for yourself that the trianguated trajectory could vary over a large range of angles with very small errors in determining trail directions. Note that the triangulation base is narrow. The photos used were taken about 8 miles apart at a distance of over 40 miles from the trail, so the angular distance between the photo sites is only about 10 degrees. This is why small errors in determining directions can translate into huge errors in the fireball trajectory. Consider that to properly scale the photos and measure directions, they had to do on-site surveying to determine distances and directions to nearby reference objects, such as trees seen in the photos. (If there were no such reference objects, it would be impossible to determine directions in the trail.) Say they were determining fireball trail directions in a photo relative to a nearby tree about 100 feet away. Then getting the position of where the photo was taken off by less than 1 foot or similarly mis-measuring the distance to the tree could alone throw the direction measurements off by half a degree. (Another potential source of error would be in reading compass directions while surveying.) Because the triangulation base was so narrow, positions and distances on-site would have to be determined to almost superhuman accuracy. There is just so much room for error in triangulating the trajectory that it's ridiculous. I therefore find it very telling that these astronomers did no error analysis of any kind (at least none published in the paper). This wasn't a very rigorous scientific paper and the conclusions should be treated with proper skeptical caution. Despite the natterings of the Kecksburg skeptibunkers who cite the Chamberlain/Krause paper as gospel, the true direction of the fireball in the Detroit area is still very much an open question. That's why I consider eyewitness testimony to the fireball critical. Just the fact that numerous people in western Pennsylvania reported a sonic boom is a good indication that the fireball event continued on into western Pennsylvania, instead of ending in a thud near Detroit. (In fact, it was assumed as much in most of the newspaper articles at the time, in part citing the opinions of various astronomers.) That's why the skeptibunkers don't like to mention the contradictory eyewitness testimony of what was observed further
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:46:18 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:50:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? - Rudiak >From: Bob Soetebier <rks1.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:14:43 -0600 >Subject: Re: Grant Cameron & "A Person Of Interest" >Perhaps this is how Grant Cameron was targeted as "a person of >interest" by the Bush Administration!?!: >----- >Source: Capitol Hill Blue - Willis, Virginia, USA >http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/printer_7625.shtml >Nov 8, 2005 >White House Keeps Dossiers On More Than 10,000 'Political Enemies' >By Doug Thompson >Publisher, Capitol Hill Blue >Spurred by paranoia and aided by the USA Patriot Act, the Bush >Administration has compiled dossiers on more than 10,000 >Americans it considers political enemies and uses those files to >wage war on those who disagree with its policies. Remember that it was Grant who caught Dick Cheney off-guard in the early days of the Bush Administration when he asked Cheney if he had ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs as Cheney was being interviewed on PBS's Diane Rehm radio show. Cheney's interesting reply was not to deny he had ever been briefed but to instead respond with a hypothetical _if_ he had been briefed, he couldn't talk about it because it would be classified. If Grant got put on the list of "enemies" maybe it's because
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 From: Frits Westra <fw-nx.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:47:36 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:05:47 -0500 Subject: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 Dear all, I would like to draw your attention to a report from the UFO Working Group Netherlands (UWN). The UWN has put online a sound recording from 1990 of radio communications between British RAF jet fighters and Dutch military air traffic control. The British fighter pilots report that they are observing a large unknown flying object. The recording can be downloaded from the Ufonet.nl website. We also present the verbatim text of the communications and all background information that we have gathered so far on this remarkable case. Please visit: http://www.ufonet.nl click on the British flag (bottom left), then click on News. Thank you for your interest. Frits Westra UFO Working Group Netherlands
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 New York & Washington States Studies Done From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 05:29:37 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:11:02 -0500 Subject: New York & Washington States Studies Done Hello yet again: More progress on the state maps/statistics work here. Last time I mentioned pages for Pennsylvania (with New Jersey and Delaware) and Florida. Now I have two more ready: New York: http://www.larryhatch.net/NYK.html .. and Washington State: http://www.larryhatch.net/WASH.html As always, feedback and corrections are warmly welcomed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Science And UFOs China From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:05:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:05:11 -0500 Subject: Science And UFOs China Source: Danwei - Central, Hong Kong http://www.danwei.org/archives/002357.html December 16, 2005 Science And UFOs by Joel Martinsen The Journal of UFO Research is China's (and apparently the world's) largest UFO journal. Published six times a year by the Gansu Science and Technology Press, it reports on UFO sightings across the globe and throughout history, as well as on a variety of other fringe and paranormal topics. Interesting in this issue is a heated response to the attacks various anti-pseudoscience crusaders have made against UFO proponents: "You don't have to believe that aliens exist, but you can't deny that UFO phenomena have occurred; you can say that UFO research is not orthodox science, but you can't judge it as pseudoscience." It would be more convincing if the same issue did not have an article claiming that a NASA moon base had been invaded by aliens. Also in this issue are a report on the Shenzhou space program, three UFO sightings reports, a look at ancient Egyptian civilization, and two SF stories, the 1992 classic Mousepad by Wu Yan and a more recent story called Time Stopped for Me by Yang Peng. The magazine is switching to a monthly format starting next year. The cover story for January's issue is "Do we want Darwin
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Passing Of SETI Critic Senator Proxmire From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:11:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:11:19 -0500 Subject: Passing Of SETI Critic Senator Proxmire Source: The Planetary Society http://tinyurl.com/8kyhf 16 December 2005 Planetary Society Marks Passing of SETI Critic, Senator William Proxmire A Letter from Louis Friedman Executive Director of The Planetary Society On December 15 former Senator William Proxmire of Wisconsin died at the age of 90. Proxmire was no friend of the space program, and in 1979 he gave one his famous "golden fleece" awards for wasteful government spending to NASA for its research in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI). A few years later he was instrumental in stopping government support for SETI. But Proxmire also provided The Planetary Society with one of its greatest victories, and consequently earned the respect of Carl Sagan and the organization for his willingness to listen. In the early 1980s NASA's SETI program, known as the Microwave Observing Project (MOP), was gaining momentum. NASA Ames was preparing a targeted search, and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory was conducting preliminary work towards an all-sky survey. It all came to a sudden stop in 1982, when Proxmire led the Senate to discontinue all federal funding for SETI. The ban took effect just as a group of American scientists, led by SETI pioneers Frank Drake and Bernard Oliver, were about to set out to what was to be a seminal international conference in Tallinn, Estonia. Without the funds they could not go. Sagan said the newly-formed Planetary Society would help. Sagan contacted the Sloan Foundation and arranged for The Planetary Society to apply for a grant. The Society got the grant and saved American participation and funding for the conference. We also began raising funds from our members to support private SETI research, a practice we continue to this day. But at the same time, we began a series of meetings with Senator Proxmire's staff, which culminated in a couple of meetings between Sagan and the Senator. I was fortunate enough to have been a participant in one of them. Sagan explained SETI as a scientific topic and the radio astronomy techniques of listening for possible signals from an extraterrestrial civilization. He presented the Senator with the scientific rationale for SETI and the basis for the experimental approach. Proxmire never became totally convinced of the value of SETI, but he did admit it was not a "golden fleece." Most importantly, he agreed to look the other way when the next request for NASA funding for SETI came before the Congress. He did. NASA's SETI program was restored in 1983 and continued for another decade. The restoration of NASA's SETI program in the early 1980s allowed the Ames Research Center and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory to build radio receivers and conduct SETI research. In October 1992 NASA launched the High Resolution Microwave Survey (HRMS) -- a full-time SETI observation program. Less than a year later, the project was killed by a different Senator, who again initiated a Congressional ban on federal funding for SETI. This time the ban stuck, and all SETI activity became private. The restoration of NASA SETI in the 1980s was the Society's first political victory, which helped establish us both in Washington and in the space community. It was due in a large part to Carl Sagan's personal leadership and his ability to explain science. But it was also due to the willingness of a very skeptical Senator to listen to reason. I was impressed by Proxmire personally and by his willingness (rare for a
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:03:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:01:47 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov >From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:27:49 -0800 (PST) >Subject: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >How best to convey the erroneous impression that alien >encounters are only recalled under leading hypnosis? Has anyone reading this ever had a visualization of a brief bit of an abduction experience while awake, but just after waking at night? Something in the nature of an extremely vivid flashback.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? - From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 12:19:27 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:06:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:46:18 -0800 >Subject: Re: Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? >>From: Bob Soetebier <rks1.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:14:43 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Grant Cameron & "A Person Of Interest" >>Perhaps this is how Grant Cameron was targeted as "a person of >>interest" by the Bush Administration!?!: >>----- >>Source: Capitol Hill Blue - Willis, Virginia, USA >>http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/printer_7625.shtml >>Nov 8, 2005 >>White House Keeps Dossiers On More Than 10,000 'Political Enemies' >>By Doug Thompson >>Publisher, Capitol Hill Blue >>Spurred by paranoia and aided by the USA Patriot Act, the Bush >>Administration has compiled dossiers on more than 10,000 >>Americans it considers political enemies and uses those files to >>wage war on those who disagree with its policies. >Remember that it was Grant who caught Dick Cheney off-guard in >the early days of the Bush Administration when he asked Cheney >if he had ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs as Cheney was >being interviewed on PBS's Diane Rehm radio show. >Cheney's interesting reply was not to deny he had ever been >briefed but to instead respond with a hypothetical _if_ he had >been briefed, he couldn't talk about it because it would be >classified. >If Grant got put on the list of "enemies" maybe it's because >nobody dares put Dick Cheney on the spot like that! Cheney has a >long memory. I am a dual citizen of Canada (since 1993) and the USA by birth. One of the major reasons I didn't want to give up my US Citizenship was so that I could work there without hassle.There is paperwork required at the border for non US citizens who wish to be employed in the USA. Enforcecent for all border crossing rules varies greatly from time to time. I cross by car about once a week to my POB in Houlton, Maine and many times a year by air.I always show my US passport. Some border guys ask a lot of questions, others ask almost none. I think in Grant's case he found a stickler. Technically he was breaking the rules. These guys have incredible power to control. One need not dream up a conspiracy. I keep wishing somebody would see the TOP SECRET/MAJIC EYES ONLY MJ-12 documents and arrest me for breaking security. They would of course have to claim the documents were genuine. I don't expect it to happen.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:08:06 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:09:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 20:35:17 -0000 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:46:18 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:01 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>>The article you mentioned also has the following: >>>>"One piece is being held for study of Werner Bromund, >>>>professor of chemistry at Oberlin College. He left early >>>>today for Chicago, and will have the unusual metal >>>>awaiting him on his return to Oberlin." >>>>Did you try contacting Oberlin? >>>Nope, I didn't follow up on this. Nonetheless, NASA is now >>>admitting that they did analyze debris and it wasn't from a >>>meteor. >>>The other important parts of the new story is that it was from >>>a "Russian satellite," though NASA's own expert ruled this out >>>in 2003 when Leslie Kean checked with him. Nothing >>>orbiting came down that day in that area. >>I think you are a good researcher. Would you be willing to >>contact Oberlin to find out whether professor Werner Bromund is >>still alive? If he is still around it would be good to locate >>him to find out his opinion and if he wrote up a report. If he >>is no longer around it would be good to find out if there is an >>archive of his materials available. >Werner Bromund died in 2000. >In terms of his archived material, Josh, you might be interested >in the following: >"Werner had a strong interest in the historical record. He saved >everything. ...He also saved chemical materials that he had >found elsewhere. The records have been deposited in the >college's archives." >See: >http://tinyurl.com/clfch Hello Isaac, Thanks for posting the information from the Oberlin alumnae information. Now the question is - who is able to travel to Oberlin College and review Professor Bromund's archive? I am in Hawaii and I am not able to make a trip to the mainland.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Cattle Mutilation in Vertiz La Pampa Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:31:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:11:39 -0500 Subject: Cattle Mutilation in Vertiz La Pampa Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology December 17, 2005 Source: Ciufos-Lapampa Date: 12.16.05 Cattle Mutilation In Vertiz Four Argentine Frisian cows ("holando argentino") were found dead and mutilated some days ago at the "Los Hermanos" ranch in the vicinity of Vertiz, La Pampa. The leaseholder, Gustavo Steib, stated that "...from one day to the next, cows that were about to give birth were found dead, missing their genitalia, the nipples of their udders and a patch of hide, whose circular incision was perfect." Steib added that "...one of the cows had an incision in the medullar area of its neck and another incision in the carretilla," expressing his surprise at the precision of the incisions, which he classified as "clean and almost cauterized - it's like cutting and sealing at the same time to avoid hemorrages." He further highlighted that "...the flesh takes two or three days to rot, but in this case it only took 12 hours," stressing the fact that he found that the color of the flesh turned to a dark greyish color, "almost leaden", following an incision. It was also remarkable that despite the fact that flesh was removed from the animal for examination, the rest of the carcass was unmolested by carrion animals.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? - From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:16:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:14:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:46:18 -0800 >Subject: Re: Grant Cameron "A Person Of Interest"? >>From: Bob Soetebier <rks1.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:14:43 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Grant Cameron & "A Person Of Interest" >>Perhaps this is how Grant Cameron was targeted as "a person of >>interest" by the Bush Administration!?!: >>----- >>Source: Capitol Hill Blue - Willis, Virginia, USA >>http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/printer_7625.shtml >>Nov 8, 2005 >>White House Keeps Dossiers On More Than 10,000 'Political Enemies' >>By Doug Thompson >>Publisher, Capitol Hill Blue >>Spurred by paranoia and aided by the USA Patriot Act, the Bush >>Administration has compiled dossiers on more than 10,000 >>Americans it considers political enemies and uses those files to >>wage war on those who disagree with its policies. >Remember that it was Grant who caught Dick Cheney off-guard in >the early days of the Bush Administration when he asked Cheney >if he had ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs as Cheney was >being interviewed on PBS's Diane Rehm radio show. >Cheney's interesting reply was not to deny he had ever been >briefed but to instead respond with a hypothetical _if_ he had >been briefed, he couldn't talk about it because it would be >classified. >If Grant got put on the list of "enemies" maybe it's because >nobody dares put Dick Cheney on the spot like that! Cheney has a >long memory. Roger. But then the most prevaricating evil and scurrilously sociopathic must, indeed, _have_ that long memory. When you forget where the skeletons are buried you can risk having them stumbled upon by others. One knows a tree by the fruit it produces, after all. Cheney makes the veiled and cagey admission, where Carter makes the honestly forthcoming one. UFOs get _more_ real, not less. alienview.nul
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 17 Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 - From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:50:09 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:15:38 -0500 Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 - >From: Frits Westra <fw-nx.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:47:36 +0100 >Subject: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 >I would like to draw your attention to a report from the UFO >Working Group Netherlands (UWN). >The UWN has put online a sound recording from 1990 of radio >communications between British RAF jet fighters and Dutch >military air traffic control. The British fighter pilots report >that they are observing a large unknown flying object. The >recording can be downloaded from the Ufonet.nl website. We also >present the verbatim text of the communications and all >background information that we have gathered so far on this >remarkable case. >Please visit: >http://www.ufonet.nl >click on the British flag (bottom left), then click on News. Very interesting. Thanks for posting this. This incident occurred seven months before I took over the British Government's UFO Project and although I wrote about the case in my first book, 'Open Skies Closed Minds', I wasn't involved in the investigation and can't recall what follow-up action was taken by the Ministry of Defence. The sighting was recorded as having taken place on 5 Nov 1990 at 1800Z at FL270 (i.e. 27,000 feet). The description of the UFO from the report sent to the MOD was as follows: "One large aeroplane (shape). 5 to 6 white steady lights. 1 blue steady light. Contrails from blue area." The report added the following information: "UFO appeared in our RH side same level. We were travelling at Mach point 8. It went into our 12 o'clock and accelerated away. Another 2 Tornados seen it and possible idented as a stealth aircraft". Best wishes,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:26:17 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:54:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:48:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:56:06 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:58:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>If NASA records, then you are likely out of luck because of the >>>distance in time and poor preservation methods used. The >>>original guy who had the boxes sent to storage is likely dead >>>and his "storage forms" thrown out after he died. Even the >>>inventory records would either be discolored/illegible or >>>missing. The box may be mouldering somewhere with thousands of >>>others (its label discolored/fallen off). Its too much to expect >>>a pristine archival of all NASA documents and other items... >>Why is too much to expect NASA to know where its stuff is? Why >>would it be "mouldering?" Why would all the labels be fallen >>off? Does that go for all their documents too? It seems like you >>want to provide excuses for NASA _not_ to locate what it might >>have. >People don't understand the sorry state of affairs in the >archival activities in the government in general and NASA in >particular. This applies to personal, project documents and data >files and images from various space projects. <snip> But the lastest NASA statement was that it was a "Russian satellite." I would think documents about a Russian satellite crashing down on the U.S. would be of some importance and deserve greater efforts at preservation than some engineer's personal slide-rule calculations. The importance would go up exponentially if the source of the "satellite" was something a little further than Moscow. As to what became of the fragments that NASA now admits they analyzed, I would suspect that if they were of "foreign" artificial origin, NASA would have transferred them to the Foreign Technology Division at Wright-Patterson AFB for further handling, the people Brad Sparks noted would have likely ultimate jurisdiction over such matters. However, any paperwork about an initial NASA assessment plus transfer of material would still be of importance and might very well be around within NASA. >I suggest you ask NASA to go through all their archived boxes >for the files you want. May take a decade to go through. >>If you are interested in getting the debris, the news story also >>mentioned that Donald Shepherd ,the Spring Valley School >>principal in Elyria, Oh, was given one of the pieces of debris. >Did someone check if this dude is still alive and see if he kept >his relic? I don't know. >>>My personal feeling is that a father saw his son looking for the >>>debris and dug out some slag for him to find. >>Now you are talking like a debunker. The witness (one of the >>three boys) I spoke to said they saw the pieces dropping from >>the sky into a field and _immediately_ went to pick them up. >>They were still warm when they found them. Where did you get the >>idea that a father was somehow involved? He wasn't there. >Well, I was talking about the Elyria pieces. They never said >they saw the things fall, but felt the items were still "warm" >(after being on the ground overnight!). The article does say they saw the fireball. The one I spoke to told me they saw fragments falling out of the sky. When they picked them up they were still warm. You are correct that the newspaper article says they found them the next morning, whereas I was under the impression from talking to my witness that they found them almost immediately. It could be I misunderstood him. There were also other reports in the area, such as next-door Lorain, of debris coming down. Further newspaper reports indicated that the Elyria fire department had to put out about a dozen grass fires apparently caused by hot debris coming down. That the debris could even start fires indicates it must have been very hot indeed. The metal shown and described in the Elyria paper had a melted, bubbly appearance, as if in a previously molten state. This makes perfect sense if the material was melted off the main fireball. >It think this is highly unlikely given thermal conduction and >convection rates and likely cold temps in December. Of course, >if it was radioactive, then it might still be warm. Read the end of the Elyria article as it also mentions two previous recoveries of hot meteorite material in Elyria: "Thursday's 'shower' of fiery metal was the fourth to be reported in this area int he past 10 years. August 15, 1955, a 24-pound chunk of black material smashed into the driveway of the West Side Lumber and Coal Co. at Elyria. **The meteorite was still warm when discovered... the next morning.** April 7, 1958, a number of Lorain Countians saw another meteorite pluge from the sky [copy of article clipped at bottom]... and land on a tennis court. **The meteorite still was glowing and hot** when when he rushed over to it, so the youngster let it remain there overnight, retrieving it the following morning." Thus something coming down "glowing and hot" from a previous molten state could easily start fires and still be warm the next morning, even in December. Some of the "bubbly" fragments might also retain inner heat better because the bubbles might act as insulation. >The Chronicle Telegram, Elyria, Ohio, Dec 11, 1965 (final >edition) says the following: > > >"...Joe Kovacs found the first piece in the backyard at his home >before going to school yesterday morning. He launched his search >after hearing radio reports about the fireball, he explained. > >"Joe, his twin brother and yound Shue joined forces yesterday >afternoon to continue the search." > >"Bryan found two pieces in his own front yard and three more in >the Kovacs backyard while Mike found three more in the Kovacs >yard." >So much for finding the meteor _immediately_ after seeing it >fall. I stand corrected. It may be I got confused when I read it because of the clipping of the article on my copy. This left the last paragraph reading in isolation (as quoted above), "The meteorite still was glowing and hot when when he rushed over to it, so the youngster let it remain there overnight, retrieving it the following morning." I thought that was the article again talking about the 1965 Elyria find by the three boys. >I am simply trying to put myself in the time and place. Here you >have a few kids running around all excited trying to find a >piece of meteor and being disappointed by not finding anything >and a father sees them doing this and places the pieces of >warmed up slag there for them to find. Again, this strikes me as extremely far-fetched and just an effort at trying to dismiss the what was found. I suppose the father also started the reported grass fires to add to the authenticity of the story. >The other option is that over the decades of using old heaters, >this slag was thrown out into the yards. The heaters got so hot has to form large, melted, bubbly metal pieces? >The other option is that kids found these neat metal stones >elsewhere in the past and tossed them around and forgot about >them. Yep, just another effort to debunk. >>Yes, all these are potential leads that could to be followed up >>on. (It's just rather difficult 40 years after the fact.) The >>claim, however, from two papers in science journals I've read >>(one below) was that no meteorites were ever found. That's very >>odd considering the many widespread reports of the object >>breaking up and debris seen raining down, plus people saying >>they picked the stuff up. Elyria was just one example. One would >>_expect_ meteorites to be found if this was a meteor fireball. >It needs to be followed up on. Some of these folk surely kept >their finds. Maybe, or maybe after they were reported in the newspaper, somebody like NASA came and picked them up and they disappeared, as I was told happened in Elyria. But you do have a good point. Some of these people and their reported stuff may still be around. >>>The best story I found was in the Valley Independent, >>>Monongahela Valley, Penn, Dec 10, 1965 - it was a UPI story out >>>of Pittsburg, I can see how a legend started: >>Well I can see where you're going with this. So it's a "legend," >>is it? Everybody who saw or heard something much further east in >>Ohio or Pennsylvania merely imagined it. >Don't be so sensitive. If I were reading the article I quoted >about the reported behavior at Kecksburg, then I would think >something was going on to! "Legend" is in the sense of >"Noteworthy". >>>Sources at the Pentagon indicated Thursday they believed the >>>orange flash was a meteorite. >>And now a NASA spokesman says it wasn't a meteor after all but a >>"Russian satellite." So who's got the story right? >I think NASA was guessing, they don't know. The safe option would have been to go with the original official story of it being a meteor fireball. Why suddenly bring "Russian satellite" into this, unless they were just recycling the old, thoroughly discredited theory of debunker James Oberg, formerly with NASA, of the Cosmos 96 probe? If that's the case, then the professionalism of NASA's PR office in speaking to the press is damn near zero. >>>Officials at Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, >>>refused to speculate about what the object might have been. "A >>>spokesman for the NorthAmerican Air Defense Command at >>>ColoradoSprings, Col.,said Norad tracking stations did not track >>>theflash of light but said if it was a meteorite it would have >>>shown up on their radar scopes. >>Again, no meteor according to this. >This was a problem. If a satellite or meteor, it should have >shown up on scopes. But then, we must trust them to tell us the >truth right? Right. >>>National Guard and Air Force personnel both denied early >>>reports that the flash came from a rocket fired in Ohio. >I had found this funny. But post 9-11, maybe it wouldn't have >been. >>James, instead of dismissing Pennsylvania accounts as "legends," >>I think it would be more productive for both of us to compare >>notes offline, since it seems you have compiled a decent >>collection of newspaper reports that would complement mine. The >>point is to try to rule out the impossible and figure out what >>really happened. NASA nows says it wasn't a meteor, so what was >>it really? >"Legend" was not meant that it wasn't true. I know something >happened there so that is not legend. Having a number of Air >Force use Gieger counters in one specific area in Penn. can >easily spawn a Legend. Maybe it was a meteor or satellite or >UFO. But without those Air Force guys, there would been less >chance of the legend of Kecksburg taking off. Well, there was a bunch of Army guys there too cordoning off the area and keeping the curious pesky civilians out, according to some of the news stories and reporters at the scene. What possible interest would the military have in recovering a "meteorite"? Yes, such behavior could indeed create reasonable suspicions that the military was after more than just a meteorite. Add to this the eyewitness accounts of the Army trucking off a large object under a tarp that corresponds in size and general shape to what several other eyewitnesses independently said they saw partly buried in the ground in the woods (the bronze, acorn-shaped object with the belt of symbols at the base) and one has one helluva a "legend". This was no meteorite. If it was a "Russian satellite," then which one, and how could it possibly make a controlled soft landing like that instead of digging a huge crater and smashing to bits? >If you want to go off-line, fine. I was thinking others might be >interested in this too. Am I right other readers? Do you want us >to go offline or hear more? >Want I am really hoping for is to get someone interested enough >to go up to these other folk and see if their pieces still exist >(sitting on the fireplace mantle) so that they can be analyzed. >If they have stories of MIBs (or NASA or Air Force) taking their >pieces then we can get more alarmed. Surely one of them had the >sense to hide a piece to hand down to their kids or tell stories >about at Christmas dinners or around the fireplace when camping. Well maybe. For me this will have to wait until after the holidays. >As to what NASA guesses it is, I would hang my hat on that. As to whether this is a "guess" or a new official story backed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:32:23 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 14:55:52 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:51:43 -0400 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:21:15 -0600 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video <snip> >>If he is telling the truth based on "inside information", it's >>probably time to bend over and kiss our assets good-bye. If he >>is deliberately spreading false or even half-true information, >>especially about another country, what is the purpose, >>objective, plan? If he is sharing accurate or inaccurate >>information fed to him in hopes he will "leak" it to the public, >>what is the purpose, objective, plan and who are the >>perpetrators/handlers? ><snip> >I was there for Hellyer's speech after mine and also for the >press conference. >Paul Hellyer explicitly stated that he had no inside information >from when he was Defence Minister. So no confidentiality oath to >break. >His beliefs are based on reading and accepting Corso's book as >gospel and supposed confirmation, "It is all true and more", >from a retired USAF general known to his son. No way to know what >that means. Hi, Stan: Sorry I took so long to reply - don't have much time for anything except on weekends. You say Hellyer's beliefs are based on Corso's book? Kinda scary to think one book could influence people so much. But then, many religions (aka - belief systems) are based on a book. A little faith will take you a long way.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:38:22 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:07:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:56:06 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:58:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:03:01 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:49:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files ><snip> >And now a NASA spokesman says it wasn't a meteor after all but a >"Russian satellite." So who's got the story right? http://www.cira.colostate.edu/ramm/hillger/Russian.htm Russian scientific/research and environmental-observing satellite http://www.cira.colostate.edu/ramm/hillger/Kosmos-99_cover.jpg Acorn? http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_sdat/zenit-2.htm Acorn? Kosmos 98 1965 Nov 27 - 8:24 GMT - Launch Site: Baikonur. Duration: 8.00 days. Decay Date: 5 December 1965. http://www.sciencepresse.qc.ca/clafleur/Spacecrafts-1965.html Spacecraft launched in 1965 Kosmos 98 Spacecraft: Zenit-2 No. 31 Numbers:1965 payload #158 ; 1965-097A ; 638th spacecraft. Type:Reconnaissance Sponsor:Soviet Union'd Defense ministry Launch:27 November 1965 at 8h24 UTC, from Baykonur Cosmodrome's LC-31, by an A-1/"Vostok" (8A92). Orbit: Decayed: Mission: Source:Jonathan McDowell's Master List ; Mark Wade's Encyclopedia Astronautica ; National Space Science Data Center's ; TRW Space Log ; http://www.astronautix.com/chrono/19654.htm 1965 Nov 27 - 8:24 GMT - Launch Site: Baikonur. Launch Complex: LC31. Launch Pad: LC31. Launch Vehicle: Vostok 8A92. Model: Vostok 8A92. LV Configuration: Vostok 8A92 U15001-05. Cosmos 98 Nation: USSR. Payload: Zenit-2 11F61 s/n 31. Mass: 4,720 kg. Class: Surveillance. Type: Military. Spacecraft: Zenit-2. Agency: MOM. Perigee: 205 km. Apogee: 547 km. Inclination: 65.0 deg. Period: 92.1 min. COSPAR: 1965-097A. USAF Sat Cat: 1780. Duration: 8.00 days. Decay Date: 5 December 1965. Area survey photo reconnaissance satellite. References: 1, 2, 5, 6, 93. http://www.astronautix.com/craft/zenit2.htm 27 November 1965 Cosmos 98 Launch Site: Baikonur. Launch Vehicle: Vostok 8A92. Mass: 4,720 kg. Perigee: 205 km. Apogee: 547 km.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:36:03 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:20:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Hebert >From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:14:51 -0500 >Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On >>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:58:23 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On >>In 1980, an un-identified object, visited Rendlesham Forest. >>Come and see the site and hear the tale." >>That's a rather direct statement for a government agency to >>make. <snip> >I think it's just careless writing. Probably they meant to say, >"In 1980, there was a UFO sighting in Rendlesham Forest." They >came up with the phrase they used without thinking about the >literal meaning of their words - a very common mistake that >careless writers make. They're the Forestry Commission, after >all. They aren't experts in the precise ways the likes of us >have learned about how to phrase a UFO claim. <snip> Hi, Greg: I figured it was due to careless writing but it tickled my funny bone. Can't help but wonder just how many times this slip of the pen will be quoted on UFO web sites, in books, articles, etc. forever and ever and ever as 'proof' the Forestry Commission believes an "un-identified" object landed at Rendlesham. We may be witnessing the birth of yet another UFO rumor.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:48:57 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:01:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On - Hebert >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:24:53 -0000 >Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On >>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:58:23 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Rendlesham 25 Years On <snip> >>In 1980, an un-identified object, visited Rendlesham Forest. >>Come and see the site and hear the tale." >>That's a rather direct statement for a government agency to >>make. Note how they didn't say an "alleged" un-identified object >>or a possible misidentification of a lighthouse light. Does >>England's Forestry Commission believe a UFO visited Rendlesham >>Forest in 1980? >They do use the word "alleged" at the top of the page though, >where the heading is "25th anniversary of the alleged UFO >landing". Yes they do, Nick. How perceptive you are. <wink> Gotta stay away from the egg nog - the joy of the season has my sense of humor on high alert. Sorry if anyone took me seriously. I'll have to remember to smile when talking tongue-in-cheek.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:39:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:19:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:52:35 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:56:06 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:58:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>His name was "von del chamberlain", an astronomer at Michigan >>>State Univeristy. >>Yes, he and David J. Krause wrote an article for the Royal >>Astronomical Society of Canada Journal in 1967 saying it was a >>meteor. The main result of the paper was a trajectory that ended >>up being at right angles to a trajectory that can be deduced >>from gathering eye witness reports over a large area. They >>further claimed that the whole event lasted only a few seconds >>and ended over the western end of Lake Erie near Detroit and >>Windsor. >>This paper is a staple of Kecksburg debunkers (like James Oberg >>and Bob Young) who claim that it absolutely proved that the >>fireball never pointed in the direction of Pennsylvania or that >>anything happened across northern Ohio or western Pennsylvania. >>All the witness who say otherwise were all lying or imagining >>things (including all the people in western Penn. who phoned in >>reports of sonic booms to the state police - oddly this is never >>discussed in Kecksburg debunking articles). >>But how conclusive are the results really? The paper's >>conclusions were entirely based on a triangulation of the path >>from two points on the smoke trail from only two photos. The >>photos weren't taken that far apart, creating a narrow >>triangulation base. This means that even tiny errors in the >>measurements of the directions on the photos could create a >>radically different trajectory. <snip> >>I found when I analyzed this that it would take less than 2 >>degrees error overall to change their SW to NE trajectory to one >>at right angles to this, from the NW to SE. Despite this, there >>is zero discussion of potential error in this paper. At the very >>least, there should have been error bars on the directions. (No >>measurements like this in real life are ever perfect.) Draw an >>error cone only 1 degree in radius around their directions and >>it becomes immediately apparent that the trajectory could have >>varied over about 230 degrees! Thus their trajectory is hardly >>conclusive at all. No wonder it disagrees so sharply with >>eyewitness reports much further to the east. >A correction here: With +/- 1 degree of error in determination >of triangulation directions, the range of possible trajectories >could vary over about 150 degrees, not 230. >I just did a little further analysis and found that the error >could be as little as +/- 0.5 degrees, and this would still >accommodate a straight-line Kecksburg trajectory at nearly >right-angles to the trajectory Chamberlain/Krause claimed for >the fireball. >BTW, a debunking article by CSICOP's Robert Scheaffer, (of >course treating the paper's results as unquestionable church >dogma) can be found at: >http://www.debunker.com/Kecksburg.html >Scheaffer's article is useful in showing one of the photos of >the trail used for the triangulation. Also there is a link to >the original R.A.S.C. journal article (in .pdf format), >unfortunately with poor quality photos, but with a useful >diagram of the triangulation. You can copy the triangulation >diagram and use your paint program to put in direction errors of >varying amounts and verify for yourself that the trianguated >trajectory could vary over a large range of angles with very >small errors in determining trail directions. >Note that the triangulation base is narrow. The photos used were >taken about 8 miles apart at a distance of over 40 miles from >the trail, so the angular distance between the photo sites is >only about 10 degrees. This is why small errors in determining >directions can translate into huge errors in the fireball >trajectory. I've just finished a more analystical, preliminary analysis of this and hastily threw together a web page with the results and diagrams. It think the diagrams will make what I'm saying here
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:39:13 -0800 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:40:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:52:35 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:56:06 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:58:56 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>>His name was "von del chamberlain", an astronomer at Michigan >>>State Univeristy. >>Yes, he and David J. Krause wrote an article for the Royal >>Astronomical Society of Canada Journal in 1967 saying it was a >>meteor. The main result of the paper was a trajectory that ended >>up being at right angles to a trajectory that can be deduced >>from gathering eye witness reports over a large area. They >>further claimed that the whole event lasted only a few seconds >>and ended over the western end of Lake Erie near Detroit and >>Windsor. >>This paper is a staple of Kecksburg debunkers (like James Oberg >>and Bob Young) who claim that it absolutely proved that the >>fireball never pointed in the direction of Pennsylvania or that >>anything happened across northern Ohio or western Pennsylvania. >>All the witness who say otherwise were all lying or imagining >>things (including all the people in western Penn. who phoned in >>reports of sonic booms to the state police - oddly this is never >>discussed in Kecksburg debunking articles). >>But how conclusive are the results really? The paper's >>conclusions were entirely based on a triangulation of the path >>from two points on the smoke trail from only two photos. The >>photos weren't taken that far apart, creating a narrow >>triangulation base. This means that even tiny errors in the >>measurements of the directions on the photos could create a >>radically different trajectory. <snip> >>I found when I analyzed this that it would take less than 2 >>degrees error overall to change their SW to NE trajectory to one >>at right angles to this, from the NW to SE. Despite this, there >>is zero discussion of potential error in this paper. At the very >>least, there should have been error bars on the directions. (No >>measurements like this in real life are ever perfect.) Draw an >>error cone only 1 degree in radius around their directions and >>it becomes immediately apparent that the trajectory could have >>varied over about 230 degrees! Thus their trajectory is hardly >>conclusive at all. No wonder it disagrees so sharply with >>eyewitness reports much further to the east. >A correction here: With +/- 1 degree of error in determination >of triangulation directions, the range of possible trajectories >could vary over about 150 degrees, not 230. >I just did a little further analysis and found that the error >could be as little as +/- 0.5 degrees, and this would still >accommodate a straight-line Kecksburg trajectory at nearly >right-angles to the trajectory Chamberlain/Krause claimed for >the fireball. >BTW, a debunking article by CSICOP's Robert Scheaffer, (of >course treating the paper's results as unquestionable church >dogma) can be found at: >http://www.debunker.com/Kecksburg.html >Scheaffer's article is useful in showing one of the photos of >the trail used for the triangulation. Also there is a link to >the original R.A.S.C. journal article (in .pdf format), >unfortunately with poor quality photos, but with a useful >diagram of the triangulation. You can copy the triangulation >diagram and use your paint program to put in direction errors of >varying amounts and verify for yourself that the trianguated >trajectory could vary over a large range of angles with very >small errors in determining trail directions. >Note that the triangulation base is narrow. The photos used were >taken about 8 miles apart at a distance of over 40 miles from >the trail, so the angular distance between the photo sites is >only about 10 degrees. This is why small errors in determining >directions can translate into huge errors in the fireball >trajectory. I've just finished a more analystical, preliminary analysis of this and hastily threw together a web page with the results and diagrams. It think the diagrams will make what I'm saying here
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 - From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:40:17 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:43:30 -0500 Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 - >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:50:09 -0000 >Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 >This incident occurred seven months before I took over the >British Government's UFO Project I know it's an oldie, but let's get one thing clear yet again. There is not, and never has been, any such thing as "The British Government's UFO Project"; it is a title that Nick Pope has invented, as he has admitted on this List But now it seems he goes even further than previously, by claiming that he "took over" the self-described 'Project', implying that it had an existence before he was given a a job which had, as a small part of its remit, replying to members of the public who wrote in to the Ministry of Defence when they saw a UFO. This is not the case.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:21:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:45:04 -0500 Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - White >From: Carol Rainey <csrainey1.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:45:14 EST >Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies <snip> >A useful statement of Occam's principle is that when you have >two competing theories which make exactly the same predictions, >the one that is simpler is the better.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:52:12 EST Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:46:34 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Sparks >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:03:41 -0500 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:27:49 -0800 (PST) >>Subject: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>How best to convey the erroneous impression that alien >>encounters are only recalled under leading hypnosis? >Has anyone reading this ever had a visualization of a brief bit >of an abduction experience while awake, but just after waking at >night? Something in the nature of an extremely vivid flashback. >It might very well be a hypnopompic artifact, but who's to say? Test the hypothesis! Don't just indulge in useless "what if's." If "abductions" were really caused by sleep paralysis and hygnogogic and hypnopompic hallucinations _then_ (class if-then argumentation in science) we should see abductions as extremely brief incidents usually at onset of sleep or waking _in bed_, never hours-long visions occurring in all sorts of physical situations including driving cars. We should see a variety of visions not just "aliens" and we should not see "abductions" because no one ever reports being _grabbed_ by any of the sleep state hallucinations. And if UFO abductions are really sleep-state visions then why only UFO's or aliens? Why aren't people having sleep-state hallucinations of being "abducted" by terrorists or bank robbers? Why aren't people seeing Osama bin-Laden in their
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 18 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 19:03:20 -0600 Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 23:48:12 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:53:05 +0000 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:12:12 -0600 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC <snip> >>What is wrong with this picture? >Nothing at all! >I'm only irritated that male ufologists (inc. observers like me) >don't seem capable of following a chain of logical analysis as >thoroughly as you have - with realistic (rather than formally >respectable or outright political) propaganda scenarios. >It may be that we males suffer from mental `potholes' we have to >avoid for fear of being thought "non-professional" or making >ourselves look foolish in other ways (like - non-macho). <snip> Thanks, Ray! As you can see, I'm not afraid of being thought 'non- professional' or appearing 'foolish' in an honest quest for the truth. After all, it's Ufoology's middle name. <grin> Cool web site you have, Ray! Especially love your quote, "Where
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Friend Ufology Columnist Jack Anderson Dies From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:20:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:01:49 -0500 Subject: Friend Ufology Columnist Jack Anderson Dies A friend of the UFO community, columnist Jack Anderson has passed away: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/17/anderson.obit.ap/index.html WASHINGTON (AP) - Jack Anderson, the Pulitzer Prize-winning muckraking columnist who struck fear into the hearts of corrupt or secretive politicians, inspiring Nixon operatives to plot his murder, died Saturday. He was 83. Anderson died at his home in Bethesda, Maryland, of complications from Parkinson's disease, said one of his daughters, Laurie Anderson-Bruch. Anderson gave up his syndicated Washington Merry-Go-Round column at age 81 in July 2004, after Parkinson's disease left him too ill to continue. He had been hired by the column's founder, Drew Pearson, in 1947. The column broke a string of big scandals, from Eisenhower assistant Sherman Adams taking a vicuna coat and other gifts from a wealthy industrialist in 1958 to the Reagan administration's secret arms-for-hostages deal with Iran in 1986. It appeared in some 1,000 newspapers in its heyday. Anderson took over the column after Pearson's death in 1969, working with a changing cast of co-authors and staff over the years. A devout Mormon, Anderson looked upon journalism as a calling. He was considered one of the fathers of investigative reporting, renowned for his tenacity, aggressive techniques and influence in the nation's capital. Anderson won a 1972 Pulitzer Prize for reporting that the Nixon administration secretly tilted toward Pakistan in its war with India. He also published the secret transcripts of the Watergate grand jury. Such scoops earned him a spot on President Nixon's "enemies list." Watergate conspirator G. Gordon Liddy has described how he and other Nixon political operatives planned ways to silence Anderson permanently - such as slipping him LSD or staging a fatal car crash - but the White House nixed the idea. Over the years, Anderson was threatened by the Mafia and investigated by government agencies trying to trace the sources of his leaks. In 1989, police investigated him for smuggling a gun into the U.S. Capitol to demonstrate security lapses. Known for his toughness on the trail of a story, he was also praised for personal kindness. Anderson's son Kevin said that when his father's reporting led to the arrest of some involved in the Watergate scandal, he aided their families financially. "I don't like to hurt people, I really don't like it at all," Anderson said in 1972. "But in order to get a red light at the intersection, you sometimes have to have an accident." Anderson began his newspaper career as a 12-year-old writing about scouting activity and community fairs in the outskirts of Salt Lake City, Utah. His first investigative story exposed unlawful polygamy in his church. He was as a civilian war correspondent during World War II and later, while in the Army, wrote for the military paper Stars and Stripes. After he went to work with Pearson, the team took on communist- hunting Sen. Joseph McCarthy, exposed Connecticut Sen. Thomas Dodd's misuse of campaign money, and revealed the CIA's attempt to use the Mafia to kill Cuban leader Fidel Castro. Anderson also wrote more than a dozen books. He was diagnosed with Parkinson's in 1986. In a speech a decade later, he made light of the occasional, uncontrollable shaking the disease caused.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Walter Haut Passes From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:09:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:09:21 -0500 Subject: Walter Haut Passes Source: Free New Mexican - Santa Fe, New Mexico http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/36549.html December 18, 2005 Lt. Walter Haut, Spokesman Who Announced Wreckage Of Flying Saucer In Roswell, Died At 83 By Associated Press ALBUQUERQUE - The man made famous for issuing a news release that said a flying saucer landed in Roswell has died. Army Lt. Walter Haut, a former spokesman for the Roswell Army Air Field, died Thursday in Roswell, his daughter, Julie Shuster, said. He was 83. Haut listened closely on July 8, 1947 as base commander Col. William Blanchard dictated a news release about a recovered flying saucer and ordered Haut to issue it. The Roswell Daily Record newspaper ran a bold headline July 9, 1947: "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region." The same day, a statement was released saying it was only a weather balloon. "I guess they changed their mind," Haut told The Associated Press in 1997. Haut said he never was told exactly where the flying disc reported in his news release was found nor did he, himself, ever see a UFO. But he remained a believer. "There must have been something in the skies at that time," he said. "There's just too much evidence." Haut and two other men founded The International UFO Museum in 1991 where he was president until 1996. More than 2 1/2 million people have visited the museum since it opened in 1992, Shuster said. It wasn't until the late 1980s that Shuster said she and her sister learned about the flying saucer incident, not from their father but from a book. "It was not a topic of conversation at the dinner table for anybody involved," she said. Haut, born June 3, 1922, in Chicago is survived by his two daughters, Shuster and Marabeth Fields of Roswell, three
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:34:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:11:21 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:32:23 -0600 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video <snip> >You say Hellyer's beliefs are based on Corso's book? Kinda >scary to think one book could influence people so much. But >then, many religions (aka - belief systems) are based on a book. <snip> Not just any book, but a book which is consonant with the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:27:50 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:09:58 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:32:23 -0600 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:51:43 -0400 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video >>>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:21:15 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC Video ><snip> >>>If he is telling the truth based on "inside information", it's >>>probably time to bend over and kiss our assets good-bye. If he >>>is deliberately spreading false or even half-true information, >>>especially about another country, what is the purpose, >>>objective, plan? If he is sharing accurate or inaccurate >>>information fed to him in hopes he will "leak" it to the public, >>>what is the purpose, objective, plan and who are the >>>perpetrators/handlers? >><snip> >>I was there for Hellyer's speech after mine and also for the >>press conference. >>Paul Hellyer explicitly stated that he had no inside information >>from when he was Defence Minister. So no confidentiality oath to >>break. >>His beliefs are based on reading and accepting Corso's book as >>gospel and supposed confirmation, "It is all true and more", >>from a retired USAF general known to his son. No way to know what >>that means. >Sorry I took so long to reply - don't have much time for >anything except on weekends. >You say Hellyer's beliefs are based on Corso's book? Kinda >scary to think one book could influence people so much. But >then, many religions (aka - belief systems) are based on a book. >A little faith will take you a long way. Hi Ma'am; My understanding is that Mr. Hellyer grabbed that book for a quick diversion in transit between engagements - I mean it might be an audacious read to a sincere progressive with a foreword written Strom freakin' Thurman f'crissake, 'knowuttamean - but was intrigued enough, still, to ask a couple of high-rankers he would legitimately know. what was what, on the up and up. Bound, brown, and hammer down? Mr. Hellyer seems a quality "instrument" in the Hynek sense and worth a listen - .I mean I hope I live to see an 88 year old Paul Kimball hear some young buck comment disparagingly in cyberspace radio regarding _his_ advanced years. Additionally? It _would_ seems Mr. Hellyer might be courageous enough to look forward to his own conclusions, humble enough not to be crippled by his own baseless and homocentric conceits, and progressive enough to be actually moved to do something about 'it'. Would that he had picked up "The UFO Evidence" & "UFOs And The National Security State", can you dig it? All you need to be convinced that something is there to begin with and the state of the 'art' that is our present bone-headed reaction to it in a double volume. Verily, forgetting the 'wailing' and 'moaning' of some as regards a "so called" dependence on the ETH. which is a mere smokescreen to scatter attention from any kind of real focus about what _remains_ to be the 'other' at all and at the bottom of 'it' even if 'it' _is_ hyper-dimensional, or extra- temporal, or alternatively cultural, or Para-Psychological, or take _your_ best guess the 'other' _remains_ without regard to the provenance of this 'other' that the 'critics' of Mr. Hellyer say _must_ be out there somewhere. Just not here - oh please God no not here - not now (oh please God no not now!), and not _recently_ or at any time in the 'perceivable' future. It might be ok if this *other* respected us as an _equal_ or, better, a _superior_. but certainly not one that would make us question our dominion over all that _is_, all that _was_, and all that _will be_. our status as God's favorite the "crown of all creation," don't you know. We (as a culture) refuse to treat this "other" in any way seriously at all because of loons and whackos and exo- politicians? <LOL> Please! The powers that "be" have heard of McDonald, have waded Vallee they've read Hynek and groked Hall. They've been ufologically "Norman Mailered and Maxwell Taylored. They _know_ what's what. They turn away, regardless. By design. On purpose. Irrespective. With prejudice. Mr. Heller appreciates that I think and seems willing to Walk the walk and Talk the talk. I say buckle-up and thanks for showing a little stone, eh? That's my thinking, s'all.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks - Hebert From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 18:30:49 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:13:57 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks - Hebert >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 18:09:29 EST >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks >>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:12:12 -0600 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:58:46 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>>>From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:21:15 -0600 >>>>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC ><snip> >>>>When I hear/read something like this, I automatically ask, "What >>>>is the purpose of this information? What is motivating this >>>>individual to make such claims so boldly in public?" ><snip> >>>Well put, Amy. I'm as surprised as anyone at what Hellyer has been >>>saying. But for those who have seemingly been quick to debunk >>>his statements, it is worth noting and remembering that he _is_ a >>>respected politician in this country. ><snip> >>Yes, Paul, we should most certainly listen. I'm listening but >>I'm also thinking, analyzing and asking questions. Just because >>it comes from the mouth of a former Defence Minister doesn't >>mean it's the truth, a lie or something in between. It means >>someone wants us to hear specific bits of information and >>believe that information is somewhat accurate. >Hellyer is _not_ a "respected politician" in Canada but a well- >known flip-flopper who was all over the political spectrum from >left, right and center, embracing odd causes all his political >life, as informed Canadians such as Paul Kimball know. Paul has >documented Hellyer's checkered career and it would be good if >you would take the time to read it: >http://tinyurl.com/9fzs7 >http://tinyurl.com/7426q >If he is a "disinfo agent" he is his own disinfo agent, on the >present balance of evidence, unless something substantial turns >up to document his alleged contacts with a USAF General and >other conveniently unnamed US officials allegedly confirming the >crackpottery. Hi, Brad: Thank you for the information. Perhaps I leaned a little too much to Hellyer being part of a disinformation campaign. I have flogged myself thoroughly. However, I'm still not inclined to rule out the _possibility_ that he could be part of a disinformation campaign. If he is/was part of a disinformation campaign of some kind for some reason or reasons, what better way to insure plausible deniability or confuse the issues than by using someone with Hellyer's questionable reputation and background. If you want people to believe something but not so much they would have any real proof or truth, you'd use someone with just enough credibility or perceived authority to get the target population's attention but with minimal impact on non-targeted populations. Hellyer, as a former Defense Minister, has just enough perceived credentials to get the attention of those who will eagerly consume his message while not providing any real evidence to substantiate his claims to those with more discriminating tastes. The result? Those who _want_ to believe have something to chew on and those who don't are left still wondering what to believe. The current UFO myth is perpetuated while the truth remains...out there... somewhere. (In the words of the Church Lady from SNL, "Isn't that speeeecial.?") No matter how incompetent Hellyer may seem, I find it difficult to accept that he was not that interested in UFO's or at least concerned about the reports when he served as Defense Minister and was not privy to important inside information. Reminds me of the US military/government saying UFO's are not considered a threat. What does that mean? So...only aircraft that can be identified should be considered a threat while unidentified aircraft are assumed harmless? Get real. What's worse, so many people simply accept what their government and/or military leaders say without questioning the logic or lack of involved. Anyone entrusted with the defense of a nation that claims he or she does not pay much attention to UFO reports, is full of shi&. And anyone who believes the BS is doing exactly what's expected of them - sleeping. Of course, it's also quite possible Hellyer is as you and others claim - a crackpot operating entirely on his own initiative. At his age, what has he got to lose? Perhaps we are focusing more on the messenger than the message? Regardless of Hellyer's intentions or motivations, I find his
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 19:57:22 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:15:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:26:17 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:48:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files <snip> >>People don't understand the sorry state of affairs in the >>archival activities in the government in general and NASA in >>particular. This applies to personal, project documents and data >>files and images from various space projects. <snip> >But the lastest NASA statement was that it was a "Russian >satellite." I would think documents about a Russian satellite >crashing down on the U.S. would be of some importance and >deserve greater efforts at preservation than some engineer's >personal slide-rule calculations. The importance would go up >exponentially if the source of the "satellite" was something a >little further than Moscow. >As to what became of the fragments that NASA now admits they >analyzed, I would suspect that if they were of "foreign" >artificial origin, NASA would have transferred them to the >Foreign Technology Division at Wright-Patterson AFB for further >handling, the people Brad Sparks noted would have likely >ultimate jurisdiction over such matters. However, any paperwork >about an initial NASA assessment plus transfer of material would >still be of importance and might very well be around within >NASA. <snip> There has apparently not been any careful analysis of what little NASA has provided. Leslie Kean spends over a full page in the latest issue of IUR (Oct 2005) in the featured headline cover story going over the NASA documents but in a vague and nebulous fashion (pp. 28b-30a). I have little faith that the CFi attorneys have done any better, going into it in more depth, but someone should. It turns out I have a copy of the the NASA SF 135-A Record Transmittal and Receipt of Sept 25, 1967, depositing NASA 1962-7 "Fragology" files on satellite/space decays with the GSA's Federal Records Center (now NARA Wash National Records Center) in Record Group 255 (NASA) Accession no. 68A-2062. Guess what? NASA did not turn over all of its 1962-7 Fragology files but only about half of them, and Kecksburg is _NOT_ on the list of what was turned over. That would mean that NASA HQ still has the Kecksburg Fragology file and never did turn it over to the NARA/WNRC/GSA in 1967. CFi should have consulted with me before proceeding with its FOIA suit. The NASA 1967 transmittal form lists the Fragology files by "F" number beginning with F1, F2, F3, etc., up to F54 in July 1966, but only 28 "F" files are listed out of the 54 total, so that is only about half. There is no obvious entry for Kecksburg and many numbers, as I say, are missing. Fragology file F40 is missing from the list of what was turned over for records storage by NASA and is closest in date to Kecksburg, it must still be at NASA HQ in Washington, DC. The closest entry to Kecksburg is the F41 "Seville Spheres," three metal spheres found near Seville, Spain, after a Soviet Luna 8 rocket booster reentered in Dec. 1965. The next entry after that is F42, an Apollo AS-202/AS-203 reentry survivability study presumably from about April 1966. Then F43, F44, F45, and F46 are not listed, and presumably are still on file at NASA HQ. Then F47 is a file on "Decay Observation by Ens" and it is not clear to me what that is or what "Ens" refers to (short for "eyewitnesses"?), and it is undated but in the list at about the April 1966 date frame. However it is possible the files were not arranged and numbered in strictly perfect chronological order so it remains remotely possible this F47 is the Kecksburg file, and it is out of order chronologically. Nevertheless on balance it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Massachusssetts, CT, RI & New Mexico Studies Done From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:06:08 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:21:08 -0500 Subject: Massachusssetts, CT, RI & New Mexico Studies Done Hello yet again: More progress on the state maps/statistics work here. Last time I announced pages for New York and Washington states. The next two mini-studies are up now: Massachusetts with Connecticut & Rhode Island: http://www.larryhatch.net/MACTRI.html .. and of course New Mexico: http://www.larryhatch.net/NMEX.html Small adjacent states are sometimes lumped together for better maps and statistics. A map of Rhode Island would fit on a business card, statistics too small to mean anything.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 05:58:26 -0800 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:25:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:38:22 -0600 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:56:06 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files <snip> >>And now a NASA spokesman says it wasn't a meteor after all but a >>"Russian satellite." So who's got the story right? >http://www.cira.colostate.edu/ramm/hillger/Russian.htm >Russian scientific/research and environmental-observing >satellite <snip> But which Russian satellite re-entered that day and whose orbit matched the Michigan/Ohio fireball and western Pennsylvania? So
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:32:53 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:27:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 20:35:17 -0000 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >Werner Bromund died in 2000. >In terms of his archived material, Josh, you might be interested >in the following: >"Werner had a strong interest in the historical record. He saved >everything. ...He also saved chemical materials that he had >found elsewhere. The records have been deposited in the >college's archives." >From the Oberlin archive site description, I doubt he saved the desired data. It is only .7 linear feet to cover his entire career there! Also, the historical files he saved did not cover the right time period. The entire Chemistry Department has only 5.5 linear feet of archives for 1927-2000! The meteor analysis will unlikely be in there! This is the problem with archives I have mentioned. People do not save everything. It was crucial to have talked to Bromund because he at least had memories and maybe even a personal file (non archive quality). After death, these get tossed. Or maybe his wife or relatives or colleages who got his personal files know more or have records. Maybe they heard stories about the incident. His archives excerpted from web site: "Series 1. Biographical File, 1933-83, 2000 (2 folders) This biographical material includes news releases, Oberlin College biographical forms, and clippings concerning the life of Werner Hermann Bromund. Series 2. Historical files (Collected by Bromund), 1875-1962 (6 folders) Oberlin Water Treatment (1 folder =E2=80=94 4 items) Water softening in Oberlin, M. M. Baker, c. 1940 (?) (6 p.) Oberlin Water Supply (notes by W.H.B. from conversation with Oberlin City Manager H. V. (Vic) Zahm, 1948) Report on Oberlin Water Analysis, 1941 Report on Water Works Board by W. H. Chapin, n.d. (c. 1920) Frank Fanning Jewett (3 folders) Correspondence (3 items) George Feick & Co. to F. F. Jewett, July 19, 1899 (original bid on Severance Laboratory) L. H. McDaniels to W. H. Bromund, June 24, 1962 (reminiscence by former student about F. F. Jewett) F. F. Jewett to Alfred Lothrop, Dec. 27, 1924 (copy) Notebooks ("chemical notes" by F. F. Jewett, July 19, 1899 Certificates (signed by F. Woehler), July 1875 (laminated) Printed Materials (collected by F. F. Jewett) 1875, 1886, 1890, 1891, 1893 (7 items) Oberlin Chemistry Dept. Publications (collected by Bromund), 1895-1948 (2 folders =E2=80=94 24 items) Series 3. Photographs, 1936, 1941, n.d. (13 items) These are photographs of Frank Fanning Jewett, Charles Martin Hall, Soldiers Monument and Old Laboratory, Severance Lab (negative), Albert A. Wright, James Dascomb, and unidentified photos. Series 4. Writings (by Bromund) 1945, 1951 (1 folder) The writings in this series were co-authored by Werner Bromund. The writings include a discussion of the contributions by the Chemistry Departments of Oberlin College and Queens College, and a scientific article concerning amino sugars. Series 5. Lantern Slides, 1919-20, 1922 n.d.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Mutilated Deer In Entre Rios Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:47:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:29:40 -0500 Subject: Mutilated Deer In Entre Rios Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology December 19, 2005 ----- Date: Sunday, December 18, 2005 SourcE: El Once Digital Has The Mysterious Chupacabras Returned To Entre Rios? The strange deaths of deer in a hunting preserve in the department of Uruguay has become a source of concern to local residents. These are female specimens that turned up mutilated and whose gentalia and reproductive organs were removed. During recent days at the La Medalla Milagrosa ranch, located some 50 km from Concepci=F3n del Uruguay, near the banks of the Uruguay River, the events became a source of great concern among locals and left authorities mystified. As could be observed, the animals had their genitalia and reproductive organs removed with incisions similar to the ones seen in bovines during 2002, a situation that caused a stir in various parts of the country. In the light of these events, specialists in the study of UFOs and extraterrestrial life visited the site and covered 3000 hectares in search of evidence. Locals and persons in charge of the ranch claim having seen helicopters and allegedly luminous objects over the area, but there is not proof at this time to substantiate this. Uno was at the site yesterday and surveyed the preserve with Juan Rios, the person responsible for the site. Rios stated that all of the animals had been found dead next to some of the barb wire fences that divide the parcels; another deer slain during early morning hours was found on the trail - a case that can be added to the ones found on previous days. All of the deaths involve females whose reproductive organs, genitalia and anuses are missing, as well as part of their backs on the right side. Incisions appearing instantaneously cauterized cuts can be seen -- a circumstance which drew the notice of veterinarians, including the expert attached to the police. Moreover, all of the females were lying on the same side, with their necks twisted in the same way, as if they had received a strong electric shock, according to sources. The La Medalla Milagrosa ranch is an important hunting preserve visited permanently by national and international political figures, top-level sportsmen and artists, who come to the country in strict secrecy to enjoy hunting vacations where distinctive samples of deer, buffalo, boar and antelope can be found. The location is truly magnificent for activities of this sort, but has also been a source of attraction for poachers who cause damage to the facilities and steal valuable specimens that have been brought in for reproduction --situations that often represented great sacrifice by the owners when it came to fighting them with police assistance. Juan Rios has been in charge of the site for some 10 years and is aware of what this represents, but what took place in recent days has left him intrigued. "We have found dead does along a 1000 meter stretch, [all of them] presenting strange incisions. No blows or bullet holes are visible, and there are no bloodstains in the are," he told Uno worriedly. Rios assured us that a round and luminous object that rises and moves in an irregular manner can be seen periodicaly over the area, which has drawn his attention. Moreover, he said that local residents have seen black, unmarked helicopters descending, which are thought to be persons visiting the site to study what is going on. "No one can explain what is going on. They say it already happened with other animals and that they took samples for analysis. The incisions are perfect and identical over the same part of the body. Burn marks produced by an electrical element are visible," he said, waiting for some sort of answer to the enigma, which has produced curiosity in the media. "We are constantly on watch every night, but nothing could be found. The animal that was killed early this morning (yesterday) we found with you, but in spite of being on guard, we neither heard nor saw anything." There is no doubt that the event is a source of controversy. There are those who insist that it is the activity of a person who wishes to foster fear or uncertainty, but there are also those who claim that we face a non-terrestrial phenomenon. The fact is that it all resembles what has been going on for little more than three years, when on June 26 2002 the first case of mutilated cattle was found on the shores of the Uruguay River before spreading to the rest of the province. The method of incision is very similar, with the difference being that the cows were being found without jaws or tongues at that time. With time, everything became anecdotal and forgotten, but the phenomenon has arisen again. Strange though it may seem, persons dedicated to exobiology reported to the site. Ernesto Eduardo Lavorde, 63, a native of Gualeguaychu and host of the Enigma de los Tiempos radio show, participates in many meetings or conferences on the subject. Given his specialty, Lavorde acknowledges having been a witness to events of these characteristics. In a conversation with Uno, he highlighted that many UFO landing sites have been found in Gualeguaychu, which have been corroborated by scientists. "These events lead us to believe that there is something behind all of this that is related to the subject. I think we could be witnessing a creature facing extinction and for this reason it is experimenting with animal organs, said Lavorde, who believes in the existence of aliens, intraterrestrials and ultraterrestrials. For more information: El Once Digital (Paran=E1,Entre R=EDos) - http://www.eloncedigital.com.ar
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 UFOs Over Santa Rosa Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:01:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:32:33 -0500 Subject: UFOs Over Santa Rosa Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology December 19, 2005 ----- Source: CIUFOS-LAPAMPA Date: 12.18.05 UFOs OVER SANTA ROSA At 22:00 hours on December 17, 2005, three witnesses saw a source of light approaching from the North, detected at 25 degrees N, which at a given time made a sort of turn to the right, vanishing suddenly. At 22:50 hours that same day, two adults and a minor saw three luminous objects traveling in single file over Santa Rosa, moving from South to North. These objects were detected at 70=BA S and vanished toward 45=BA N,following a displacment pattern similar to the [star] formation known as "Las Tres Mar=EDas" [The stars of Orion's Belt -- transl.note] as regards the separation between the objects, their volume and luminosity; the first of them presented a lesser luminous intensity than the remaining ones.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Solution To The Fermi Paradox? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:27:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:34:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Solution To The Fermi Paradox? - Maccabee >Source: PDF File >http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0512062 >arXiv:physics/0512062 v2 9 Dec 2005 >A Solution To The Fermi Paradox: The Solar System, Part Of A >Galactic Hypercivilization? .Beatriz Gato-Rivera >[Physicist at the Instituto de Matematicas y Fisica in Madrid] >World Mystery Forum 2005, Interlaken (Switzerland) >November 2005 >1 Introduction >This talk is about the possibility that the Solar System belongs >to the territory of a hypercivilization spanning our galaxy or a >arge region of it. I will start introducing the Fermi Paradox >(why we do not see aliens around?) and some of its solutions. >Then I will present my own solution which includes two proposals >called the Subanthropic Principle and the Undetectability >Conjecture. This solution states that, at present, all typical >galaxies like ours are already colonized by very advanced >technological civilizations spread through large regions or the >whole galaxies, many of them containing primitive >subcivilizations like ours. After discussing some consequences I was disappointed to see that Dr. Gato-Rivera did not use the following paper as a reference: http://brumac.8k.com/JBISpaper/JBISpaper.pdf which is the paper published in the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society about a year ago. We did use her paper as a reference. I asked why she didn't refer to it and she responded that she didn't agree with the suggestion (by another writer, Ken Olum) that modern inflation theory strengthens the Fermi Paradox... i.e. makes it even more paradoxical by indicating an even greater probability of intelligent life elsewhere - hence, why not visiting here (or no evidence of same)? (This, of course, ignores the UFO evidence.) In this recent paper which he presented at a conference she
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:31:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:36:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:26:17 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:48:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>People don't understand the sorry state of affairs in the >>archival activities in the government in general and NASA in >>particular. This applies to personal, project documents and data >>files and images from various space projects. >But the lastest NASA statement was that it was a "Russian >satellite." I would think documents about a Russian satellite >crashing down on the U.S. would be of some importance and >deserve greater efforts at preservation than some engineer's >personal slide-rule calculations. The importance would go up >exponentially if the source of the "satellite" was something a >little further than Moscow. I guess I missed the latest official NASA statement. Looking at : http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog?sc=1965-094A "Uncertainties in the orbital information and reentry coordinates and time make it difficult to determine definitively if the fireball could have been the Cosmos 96 spacecraft. " Which was updated as of 10/05. Unless the analysis was documented in an official report or publication type document,the records are likely lost. Its just the way things are done in the government. Note that the above site refers to Air Force tracking data for Cosmos 96. NASA didn't have tracking data. Ask the Air Force for their records. I suspect they have better archiving in their mountains of caverns. >As to what became of the fragments that NASA now admits they >analyzed, I would suspect that if they were of "foreign" >artificial origin, NASA would have transferred them to the >Foreign Technology Division at Wright-Patterson AFB for further >handling, the people Brad Sparks noted would have likely >ultimate jurisdiction over such matters. However, any paperwork >about an initial NASA assessment plus transfer of material would >still be of importance and might very well be around within >NASA. Can you point me to the NASA statement? >> I was talking about the Elyria pieces. They never said >>they saw the things fall, but felt the items were still "warm" >>(after being on the ground overnight!). >The article does say they saw the fireball. The one I spoke to >told me they saw fragments falling out of the sky. When they >picked them up they were still warm. You are correct that the >newspaper article says they found them the next morning, whereas >I was under the impression from talking to my witness that they >found them almost immediately. It could be I misunderstood him. Only one boy, Bryan Kovacs, specically is stated has having seen the fireball the previous day. >There were also other reports in the area, such as next-door >Lorain, of debris coming down. Further newspaper reports >indicated that the Elyria fire department had to put out about a >dozen grass fires apparently caused by hot debris coming down. >That the debris could even start fires indicates it must have >been very hot indeed. The metal shown and described in the >Elyria paper had a melted, bubbly appearance, as if in a >previously molten state. This makes perfect sense if the >material was melted off the main fireball. I have previously given the accounts, which I find more reliably related to the fireball, of recovering debris. Mrs.Lloyd Holmes near Battle Creek,Mich. She saw it fall, its had a fiery tail, and exploded. It was porous and pockmarked. Someone should locate her for more data. A somewhat less desirable debris report was from near Jackson, Michigan, where a boy Roy Root found a metallic - like object which he said he found smoldering in a fencerow. At least he said he saw a fireball passing just over the tree-tops near him and then the thing crashed into the ground. He said that when he first found the rock, it was too hot to touch. Admittedly, the authorities thought moss had grown on it, never a good sign for a just landed meteor, but perhaps it fell into a bed of moss and it got mixed into the surface somehow. That rock weighed about five pounds and was greenishgrey in color and pockmarked. Likely this dude is still alive and ready to add something to this. >>I think this is highly unlikely given thermal conduction and >>convection rates and likely cold temps in December. Of course, >>if it was radioactive, then it might still be warm. >Read the end of the Elyria article as it also mentions two >previous recoveries of hot meteorite material in Elyria: >"Thursday's 'shower' of fiery metal was the fourth to be >reported in this area int he past 10 years. August 15, 1955, a >24-pound chunk of black material smashed into the driveway of >the West Side Lumber and Coal Co. at Elyria. **The meteorite was >still warm when discovered... the next morning.** Yes, but the problem is that no one reported seeing the thing. It could have fallen a hour before. Also, landing in August is hotter and on a concrete driveway, a better insulator. >April 7, 1958, >a number of Lorain Countians saw another meteorite pluge from >the sky [copy of article clipped at bottom]... and land on a >tennis court. **The meteorite still was glowing and hot** when >when he rushed over to it, so the youngster let it remain there >overnight, retrieving it the following morning." Completed version of article: "April 7, 1958, a number of Lorain Countians saw another meteorite pluge from the sky and apparently into Lake Erie. Last previous report came in August, 1960, when 13-year-old Roger Kiddey, Canton, visiting the Paul Jeavons family at Wellington, watched a "falling star" come out of the sky and land on a tennis court. The meteorite still was glowing and hot when he rushed over to it, so the youngster let it remain there overnight, retrieving it the following morning." Again, we have something that landed on an insulating surface in hot August. >Thus something coming down "glowing and hot" from a previous >molten state could easily start fires and still be warm the next >morning, even in December. Some of the "bubbly" fragments might >also retain inner heat better because the bubbles might act as >insulation. But no fires are mentioned in association with the Kovacs "meteor" samples. Remember they found 10 pieces, but how could they know they were meteors? If they had mentioned burnt grass around them, I would believe them more. >>I am simply trying to put myself in the time and place. Here you >>have a few kids running around all excited trying to find a >>piece of meteor and being disappointed by not finding anything >>and a father sees them doing this and places the pieces of >>warmed up slag there for them to find. >Again, this strikes me as extremely far-fetched and just an >effort at trying to dismiss the what was found. I suppose the >father also started the reported grass fires to add to the >authenticity of the story. No. The article does not mention fires associated with the "finds". It is just conjecture and somewhat improbable, but does fit the facts. >>The other option is that over the decades of using old heaters, >>this slag was thrown out into the yards. >The heaters got so hot has to form large, melted, bubbly metal >pieces? No, article mentions: "The fragments weighed approximately six ounces apeice In color they are metallic blue, at first glance resembling 'clinkers" from a coal furnace." This area is the coal belt and and likely has had decades of clinkers. I remember watching "A Christmas Story" and the father was doing battle with the furnace "clinkers". So they toss them outside? Seems more likely than the father playing a game with the kids. >>The other option is that kids found these neat metal stones >>elsewhere in the past and tossed them around and forgot about >>them. >Yep, just another effort to debunk. Yep, the most likely option if you are a kid wandering around without Super Nintendo and Xbox and Spongebob. >>"Legend" was not meant that it wasn't true. I know something >>happened there so that is not legend. Having a number of Air >>Force use Gieger counters in one specific area in Penn. can >>easily spawn a Legend. Maybe it was a meteor or satellite or >>UFO. But without those Air Force guys, there would been less >>chance of the legend of Kecksburg taking off. >Well, there was a bunch of Army guys there too cordoning off the >area and keeping the curious pesky civilians out, according to >some of the news stories and reporters at the scene. Army was not in my newspaper articles. >What >possible interest would the military have in recovering a >"meteorite"? None. >Yes, such behavior could indeed create reasonable >suspicions that the military was after more than just a >meteorite. Add to this the eyewitness accounts of the Army >trucking off a large object under a tarp that corresponds in >size and general shape to what several other eyewitnesses >independently said they saw partly buried in the ground in the >woods (the bronze, acorn-shaped object with the belt of symbols >at the base) and one has one helluva a "legend". One needs more proof that the Army was even there. >This was no meteorite. If it was a "Russian satellite," then >which one, and how could it possibly make a controlled soft >landing like that instead of digging a huge crater and smashing >to bits?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:54:49 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:38:09 -0500 Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - Clark >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:21:00 -0500 >Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies >>From: Carol Rainey <csrainey1.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:45:14 EST >>Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies >>A useful statement of Occam's principle is that when you have >>two competing theories which make exactly the same predictions, >>the one that is simpler is the better. >That applies in situations where the financial and/or political >stakes are not particularly high. My impression is that a love of sinister interpretation and conspiracy theory may be wired into some people's brains. That's just the way they see the world, and that's why it is impossible to argue or reason with them. To somebody whose understanding of the world is based in the notion that logic and evidence should drive our understanding of events, the conspiratorial mindset remains in some sense impenetrable. The conspiracist, who sees dark deeds where none exist in any discernible logic and evidence (e.g., John Mack's
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:32:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:40:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:39:13 -0800 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files It would be interesting if any meteorites from pre-1969 got sent to the following (which was in an 4/16/69 newspaper): "Meteorites should be mailed to Dr. E. A. King. Lunar Receiving Laboratory, Manned Spacecraft Center, Houston, Tex. 77058."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Secrecy News -- 12/19/05 - Aftergood From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:38:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:42:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Secrecy News -- 12/19/05 - Aftergood SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 115 December 19, 2005 ** UNAUTHORIZED DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE THREATENS RULE OF LAW ** 2004 FOREIGN MILITARY SALES DETAILED ** PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE ON RECONSTRUCTION AND STABILIZATION ** GAO INVENTORY OF AGENCY AUTOMATED INFO SYSTEMS (1991) ** POSTSCRIPTS ** TIME OUT UNAUTHORIZED DOMESTIC SURVEILLANCE THREATENS RULE OF LAW In an extraordinary move that undermines the legal foundation for the conduct of intelligence activities, President Bush ordered the National Security Agency to conduct electronic surveillance of U.S. persons outside of the statutory framework that was established to authorize such surveillance, the New York Times revealed last week. Although the President insisted that his action was "consistent with U.S. law and the Constitution," the surveillance operation was not conducted in accordance with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, the statute that permits domestic intelligence surveillance with the approval of a specially designated federal court. "Domestic intelligence collection is governed by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as FISA," explained Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), a member of the Senate Intelligence and Judiciary Committees. "FISA is the exclusive law in this area." "We have changed aspects of that law at the request of the administration in the USA PATRIOT Act to allow for a more aggressive but still lawful defense against terror. So there have been amendments," Sen. Feinstein noted. But to conduct domestic intelligence surveillance outside of the FISA framework "calls into question the integrity and credibility of our Nation's commitment to the rule of law," she said December 16. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_cr/s121605.html The FISA process is not unduly burdensome or time-consuming. "Urgent requests that meet the criteria and requirements of FISA are handled as emergency or expedited matters," said the Attorney General in a written response to questions from the Senate Judiciary Committee, transmitted October 20, 2005. "The fact of the matter is, FISA can grant emergency approval for wiretaps within hours and even minutes, if necessary," said Sen. Feinstein. In a 2000 statement describing oversight of NSA activities, then-NSA Director Lt. Gen. Michael V. Hayden said "The American people must be confident that the power they have entrusted to us is not being, and will not be, abused." NSA "operates within detailed, constitutionally-based, substantive, and procedural limits under the watchful eyes of Congress, numerous institutions within the Executive Branch, and -- through the FISA -- the judiciary." "The privacy framework is technology neutral and does not require amendment to accommodate new communications technologies," he said. "The regulatory and oversight structure, in place now for nearly a quarter of a century, has ensured that the imperatives of national security are balanced with democratic values," Gen. Hayden said then. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2000_hr/hayden.html Under mounting pressure, the Bush Administration has groped for some legal justification for its departure from statutory requirements. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales proposed today that the 2001 congressional resolution authorizing the use of "all necessary and appropriate force" against terrorists encompassed the right to conduct domestic wiretapping. But that resolution plainly pertains to the use of military force, not intelligence collection. Nor do the President's inherent authorities as commander in chief extend without limitation to warrantless surveillance of Americans. "A state of war is not a blank check for the president when it comes to the rights of the nation's citizens," wrote Justice Sandra Day O'Connor in a ruling last year on the legal rights of detainees. For background on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, see: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/index.html 2004 FOREIGN MILITARY SALES DETAILED The United States sold more than $12.6 billion worth of military equipment to foreign countries in 2004, according to a July 2005 report to Congress released in declassified form last week. Items sold are broken down by country. Details of sales to several countries, including Australia, Japan and Taiwan, were blacked out in the declassified version. The document was obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by Matthew Schroeder of the Federation of American Scientists Arms Sales Monitoring Project. See the 2004 report to Congress on Foreign Military Sales here: http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/655-2004/6552004.html#DOD PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE ON RECONSTRUCTION AND STABILIZATION On December 7, President Bush issued National Security Presidential Directive 44 on "Mananagement of Interagency Efforts Concerning Reconstruction and Stabilization." "The purpose of this Directive is to promote the security of the United States through improved coordination, planning, and implementation for reconstruction and stabilization assistance for foreign states and regions at risk of, in, or in transition from conflict or civil strife," the Directive states. The full text of the Directive is posted here: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-44.html The use of presidential directives as an instrument of executive authority is discussed in "Presidential Directives: Background and Overview" by Harold C. Relyea, Congressional Research Service, updated January 7, 2005: http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/98-611.pdf GAO INVENTORY OF AGENCY AUTOMATED INFO SYSTEMS (1991) A descriptive inventory of more than one hundred automated information systems and databases used by government agencies in support of counter-drug law enforcement activities was compiled by the General Accounting Office in 1991 at the request of Congress. The surprisingly expansive 75 page account is mainly of historical interest, though it may also be useful in focusing Freedom of Information Act requests and other research activities. "Because the agencies consider the information contained in this report to be sensitive," the GAO wrote in 1991, "we have marked the report For Official Use Only." It is still not included in GAO's public database. But a copy was obtained by Secrecy News. See "War on Drugs: Inventory of Federal Agencies' Automated Information Systems," U.S. General Accounting Office, GAO/IMTEC- 91-28FS, April 1991 (1.8 MB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/sgp/gao/ais-1991.pdf POSTSCRIPTS ** Presidents have previously claimed authority over domestic communications, observed intelligence historian David Kahn, but they have done so with congressional sanction: "On 16 July 1918 a congressional resolution gave the president the power to assume control of wire communications during the war (40 Statutes at Large 904). A presidential proclamation of 22 July 1918 took that control and devolved the power on the postmaster general (40 Statutes Part 2, 1807-8). A law of 29 October 1918 (40 Statutes 1017-18) prohibited anybody from divulging the contents of those communications. The resolution was repealed in 41 Statutes 157." ** In the 1990s, intrepid researcher Glenn Campbell probably did more than any other individual to make "Area 51" the most famous secret military base in the world. Now he has turned his peculiar talents to the even more challenging proceedings of family court in Las Vegas. See his web site www.familycourtchronicles.com and a profile of his activities in the Las Vegas Sun, "An eccentric's struggle for truth," December 18: http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/sun/2005/dec/18/519837 904.html ** While the DNI Open Source Center monitors Lebanese Hizballah's unsavory Al Manar television broadcasts (Secrecy News, 12/15/05), Americans are effectively blocked from doing the same, observed Jack Shafer in Slate last year. See "Who's Afraid of Hezbollah TV? Not me": http://www.slate.com/id/2111527/ TIME OUT Secrecy News will resume publication after January 1, 2006. _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 - From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:45:22 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:44:13 -0500 Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 - >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:40:17 +0000 >Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 >>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:50:09 -0000 >>Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 >>This incident occurred seven months before I took over the >>British Government's UFO Project >I know it's an oldie, but let's get one thing clear yet again. >There is not, and never has been, any such thing as "The British >Government's UFO Project"; Nonsense. There are hundreds of files available at the National Archives detailing the MOD's research and investigation into the UFO phenomenon. Go and take a look. If you don't like this work being referred to as a "project", feel free to use your own term. Best wishes,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:28:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:39:39 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:52:12 EST >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:03:41 -0500 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>Has anyone reading this ever had a visualization of a brief >>bit of an abduction experience while awake, but just after >>waking at night? Something in the nature of an extremely vivid >>flashback. >>It might very well be a hypnopompic artifact, but who's to say? >Test the hypothesis! Don't just indulge in useless "what if's." <snip> How does one 'test' a completely subjective experience, shared wth no one else? Please note, I am not a proponent of some kind of quasi-naturalism, in which I maintain that subjective experiences are only inwardly directed mental projections without objective references. Nor did I mean to cast doubt on the 'abuction' phenomenon.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: Walter Haut Passes - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:46:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:46:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Walter Haut Passes - Friedman >Source: Free New Mexican - Santa Fe, New Mexico >http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/36549.html >December 18, 2005 >Lt. Walter Haut, Spokesman Who Announced Wreckage Of Flying >Saucer In Roswell, Died At 83 > >By Associated Press >ALBUQUERQUE - The man made famous for issuing a news release >that said a flying saucer landed in Roswell has died. >Army Lt. Walter Haut, a former spokesman for the Roswell Army >Air Field, died Thursday in Roswell, his daughter, Julie >Shuster, said. He was 83. >Haut listened closely on July 8, 1947 as base commander Col. >William Blanchard dictated a news release about a recovered >flying saucer and ordered Haut to issue it. >The Roswell Daily Record newspaper ran a bold headline July 9, >1947: "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region." >The same day, a statement was released saying it was only a >weather balloon. >"I guess they changed their mind," Haut told The Associated >Press in 1997. >Haut said he never was told exactly where the flying disc >reported in his news release was found nor did he, himself, ever >see a UFO. >But he remained a believer. >"There must have been something in the skies at that time," he >said. "There's just too much evidence." >Haut and two other men founded The International UFO Museum in >1991 where he was president until 1996. More than 2 1/2 million >people have visited the museum since it opened in 1992, Shuster >said. >It wasn't until the late 1980s that Shuster said she and her >sister learned about the flying saucer incident, not from their >father but from a book. >"It was not a topic of conversation at the dinner table for >anybody involved," she said. >Haut, born June 3, 1922, in Chicago is survived by his two >daughters, Shuster and Marabeth Fields of Roswell, three >grandchildren and four great-grandchildren.. >A viewing is scheduled Monday in Roswell at the LaGrone Funeral >Home. Funeral services are set for 11 a.m. Tuesday at Trinity >United Methodist. It should be noted that the headlines, in evening papers from Chicago West, saying a saucer had been captured near Roswell were in newspapers for July 8, 1947, not July 9. The cover story.. balloon- radar reflector - went out late that day and did appear in the final edition of the Los Angeles Herald Express. All the July 9 papers carried the cover story. 1. I was the first UFO researcher to locate and speak with Walter way back in late 1978. He was always helpful and was very well respected in Roswell. He also had been a bombardier- navigator on more than 20 bombing missions over Japan during World War 2. He knew about following orders. Dr. Joseph Nickel, CSICOP's science investigator (his 3 degrees are in English)tried to tell a TV audience that the PIO just made up the story. I was on from Roswell and asked if he even knew the PIO's name. Of course he didn't. The notion that Walter would have put out the release on his own is absurd considering that the 509th was the most elite military group in the world and that base Commander Colonel William Blanchard, a West Pointer, went on to get 4 more promotions clearly indicating he knew what he was doing. Remember this was 1947. Walter will be remembered fondly by all who knew him.Condolences to his daughters and grand children.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Rogerson From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:01:01 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:48:11 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Rogerson >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:52:12 EST >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:03:41 -0500 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:27:49 -0800 (PST) >>>Subject: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>How best to convey the erroneous impression that alien >>>encounters are only recalled under leading hypnosis? >>Has anyone reading this ever had a visualization of a brief bit >>of an abduction experience while awake, but just after waking at >>night? Something in the nature of an extremely vivid flashback. >>It might very well be a hypnopompic artifact, but who's to say? >Test the hypothesis! Don't just indulge in useless "what if's." >If "abductions" were really caused by sleep paralysis and >hygnogogic and hypnopompic hallucinations _then_ (class if-then >argumentation in science) we should see abductions as extremely >brief incidents usually at onset of sleep or waking _in bed_, >never hours-long visions occurring in all sorts of physical >situations including driving cars. We should see a variety of >visions not just "aliens" and we should not see "abductions" >because no one ever reports being _grabbed_ by any of the sleep >state hallucinations. >And if UFO abductions are really sleep-state visions then why >only UFO's or aliens? Why aren't people having sleep-state >hallucinations of being "abducted" by terrorists or bank >robbers? Why aren't people seeing Osama bin-Laden in their >sleep-state dreams, or the Devil? >In fact I doubt one can find _any_ sleep-state visions among >actual UFO abduction cases, by which I do not mean using >adulterated "abduction" databases where actual UFO abductions >have been mixed in with non-UFO or questionable sleep-state >delusions. Brad What makes you think that people only fall asleep when lying in bed. People can fall asleep in almost any circumstances if they are tired enough, including when driving a car. Hypnogogic, hypnopompic and sleep paralysis imagery is probably responsible for many a ghost story, including our old friend the phantom hitchhiker. In past times people _saw_ all sorts of monsters and bogies, not to say their neighbours who they then accused of being witches. Sleep paralysis episodes have certainly generated sexual abuse memories on occasion, and very probably reports of burglars etc. John Mack actually mentions such a case in his book on the nightmare.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Where Are The Skinwalker Photos? From: Dave Haith <visions.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:13:44 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:51:14 -0500 Subject: Where Are The Skinwalker Photos? News of the new book Hunt for the Skinwalker was floated on this group but I am puzzled why this fascinating story apparently has no back-up photos as evidence - at least not in the book. I have written about this to Colm and George and await a reply. I am sure such photos will have been taken so I would be interested if somebody can point to maybe a website or other source where I may see them But as I know Colm at least is on this list, maybe he can comment? Meanwhile this same issue - plus other criticisms - was raised in a web review of the book which I have pasted below. Dave Haith ----- 'Daimonic Reality' - Perhaps - But Precious Little Science In Utah December 2, 2005 Reviewer: J. E. Barnes (Bayridge, Brooklyn, New York) Colm A. Kelleher and George Knapp's meandering Hunt For The Skinwalker: Science Confronts the Unexplained at a Remote Ranch in Utah is an unpersuasive overview of events which purportedly took place during the Nineties at the former Gorman cattle ranch in Utah. When news of the bizarre incidents occurring there was disseminated throughout the paranormal subculture, the ranch quickly became the subject of abundant rumor and speculation; numerous websites addressed the topic, and Fortean Times wrote a feature. The property was eventually purchased for study by the National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS), and it is the NIDS scientists-- most of whom remain anonymous throughout the book-- to whom the title refers. The book has numerous problems, but perhaps the biggest is that most of the information is lightly conveyed over a precarious bed of broad, frequently subjective, and definitely non- scientific assumptions ("There is a distinct difference between monsters that exist only on celluloid or the printed page, however, and those that occasionally make over t intrusions into our personal realities; one emerges from the supernatural, while the other, like Bigfoot, has distinct roots in our flesh-and- blood reality."). Correspondingly, the book is padded with extraneous lore on masonic societies, Indian curses, Bigfoot sightings, and a history of unidentified flying objects. Hunt for the Skinwalker doesn't attempt to prove that Bigfoot and extraterrestrial craft exist among us; it comfortably begins with the presumption that they already do. Considering that Kelleher is supposed to be present as a research scientist, it's amazing how often he both relies upon and reports personal testimony like "Suddenly, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. A chill ran down my spine. Something was close by and watching me" or "When I first set foot on the ranch I had an unmistakable feeling that something was not quite right. Things were not what they seemed." Obviously, however instinctively sound such intuitive responses may have been at the moment, they are utterly useless as evidence, especially since the ranch was well known to be "haunted" by the time the NIDS staff arrived, full of anticipation and ready to encounter manifestations of the supernatural. Before selling the ranch to NIDS, readers are told that patriarch Tom Gorman, who lived on the property with his wife and children for over twenty months, routinely ("dozens of times") observed "strange, unworldly orange structures" that resembled portals, or "windows," "in the western sky." When examining these structures with special binoculars at night, on occasion Gorman believed he could observe daylight within them, as well as craft-like objects exiting them. An entire short chapter is devoted to the subject, but once NIDS purchases the ranch, even though Gorman is still present daily as foreman, the question of why he no longer sees the orange structures, or why they aren't visible to the new arrivals, is never raised. Though photographs of the area--and the aftermath of specific events--might not count as scientific evidence, the addition of some photographs would have made the book more believable. In one extraordinary event, the authors report that four beloved Gorman bulls disappear from their pen, only to be discovered shortly after stuffed--but still alive--into a tiny, disused trailer on the grounds, a space which they couldn't possibly have gotten into in any natural manner. Since NIDS was already an active presence on the ranch, photographs of both the inside and outside of the trailer, of the four bulls, and especially of the animals trapped in the trailer would have greatly bolstered this event's credibility, and perhaps made investigation by other researchers possible. Since the Gorman family reported encountering all manner of high strangeness with regular frequency--from "flying triangles" and hovering "refrigerators" similar to those investigated by Jacques Vallee in South America-- long before NIDS became involved, it seems reasonable that the family would have at least attempted to document some of their experiences on film. Later, Kelleher and Knapp report how Gorman discovers a badly mutilated calf purposefully posed in a bizarre position, and so calls the NIDS staff, who collectively witness the aftereffects; where are the photographs? Inconsistencies and irrationalities abound throughout the book. If Tom Gorman was able to observe the unnatural 'orange structures' in the sky with such regularity, and simultaneously recognized them as extraordinary, why didn't he contact the local authorities or media to witness and document them? If the Gorman cattle were as financially precious to the family as reported, why were so many left behind to be slaughtered by unseen forces, instead of being moved to the safety of the family's new ranch 25 miles away? Why weren't the NIDS teams sent out with more than one pair of infrared binoculars, so that at least two people could simultaneously observe the same phenomena in the same manner? Why do the NIDS scientists seem so professionally disorganized and unsure of how to proceed? If 'ice circles' may be a naturally occurring, if as yet unexplained, phenomena, why does the author attribute the one discovered to a paranormal agent? Why is the chapter on "revolutionary science," which Kelleher clearly puts faith in, sheepishly placed at the end of the book? Why are the NIDS members unwillingly to allow themselves to be identified? Where are the extensive footnotes the text requires? As writers on the paranormal, Kelleher and Knapp lack the diligent, hard-nosed intelligence of an Ivan T. Sanderson or the ability to assimilate visionary experience that John A. Keel and Patrick Harpur have shown in their own work. At present, there is so little hard evidence available that the story of the Gorman ranch resembles 'a folk tale in the making,' or even, as many have already publicly suspected, a fairly successful disinformation campaign. Hunt for the Skinwalker is simply too breezy, and easy on itself in every manner possible; it
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 19 Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:27:59 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:53:03 -0500 Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC - >From: Amy Hebert <ahebert4.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 19:03:20 -0600 >Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC >>From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:53:05 +0000 >>Subject: Re: "Intergalactic War"? Hellyer Speaks On MSNBC <snip> >As you can see, I'm not afraid of being thought 'non- >professional' or appearing 'foolish' in an honest quest for the >truth. After all, it's Ufoology's middle name. <grin> Thanks Amy, Think we both know how efficient the establishment is at suppressing discussion or even news of solid cases; and notice the skeptibunkers avoiding them like plague. And that's just in ufology - you can be sure it's the same in other areas of people-control, where media domination is always the aim. Which is why I'm for folk who bring cases up for public scrutiny - like Jerry Cohen and others of his ilk, and that "Art and UFO's?" site. There's whole bodies of evidence out there being suppressed - and not only in ufology. So when we see `easy' publicity our first thought should be "why?", "who benefits?" followed by "what's this covering-up?". Cheers Ray D Happy Solstice - (traditional reason for late-December feast in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 2005 UFO Sightings Russian Wrap-Up From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:02:35 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:02:35 -0500 Subject: 2005 UFO Sightings Russian Wrap-Up Source: MosNews.Com - Moscow, Russia http://www.mosnews.com/column/2005/12/15/ufoslist.shtml 2005 UFO Sightings Russian Wrap-Up 19.12.2005 Komsomolskaya Pravda Russian intelligence agencies have repeatedly stated that no UFOs have ever been spotted over Russian territory. However, witnesses from the general public continue to contradict these reports with stories of their personal encounters with the paranormal. Moscow newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda has put together the most reliable of these reports and come up with a list of UFO sightings in Russia and other post-Soviet countries for 2005. Crop Circles This year 18 cases of crop circles have been reported in Russia=92s regions =97 this is six cases more than last year and almost twice the number for 2003. Mysterious signs were seen in all parts of the country =97 as far afield as the Komi Republic and the Far East, and as close to Moscow as the Voronezh and Novgorod regions. But just like last year, the southern Krasnodar region has had more crop circles than any other region. Meanwhile, local people are not too thrilled by the unexplainable phenomena. In fact they are more troubled by ufologists who put up their tents in the fields, hoping to catch the unknown artists red-handed. UFO Caught on Film at the Yenisei River "This May I took visiting relatives out to see an ice drift on the Yenisei," nurse Raisa Kireyeva from the town of Igarka says. "We stopped at the bank, I was speaking and gesturing and my son was taking pictures. We neither heard nor saw anything suspicious or unusual, so we were totally shocked to see some object hanging in the air over my head when we had the photographs printed." The woman took the picture and the negative to the Eternal Frost Museum, At first the experts were skeptical about the photograph... "We=92ve had so many of them." But after an examination they had to admit the strange object in the picture was neither a fake nor faulty film. "We checked all the negatives," the director of the Eternal Frost Museum=92s department in Igarka, Alexander Toshchev, said. "But even when we magnified the image many times, the =92saucer=92 remained very distinct." Astronomers Prove Continuous Reports of UFOs Over the Crimea For many years people have reported the UFOs they have spotted in the sky above the Crimea in Ukraine, in the seaside city of Yalta. Astronomers at Crimea=92s Physical Astronomy Observatory decided to finally prove or disprove these reports. The researchers indeed located a reddish ball that floated in the sky for about ten minutes, slowly changing its color from red to light yellow, and leaving a path of smoke in its wake. The astronomers estimated the UFO was about 400 km away. So, in theory, the object could actually have been a secret flying device that the Turks were testing across the sea. Extra Terrestrials Trim Russian Watermelons This September bright luminous orange-colored objects, round in shape, became a familiar sight in the village of Yevseyevka in the Primorye region of Russia=92s Far East. Enormous lights moved across the sky in the evenings, disappearing from view and then returning again. The balls demonstrated strange =92behavior=92: they froze for some time, started moving again, changed their path of motion, sent out rays of light towards one another and what=92s more, each ball beamed bright lights towards the ground. A local farmer conducted an experiment on Sept., 7. When the balls appeared in the dark sky, Yuri Galayev took his torch and signaled to one of the balls, turning the torch on and off. The ball responded immediately with identical signals. The next morning when the Galayevs went to their watermelons field they noticed a weird pattern on one of the watermelons. They remembered the day before the pattern had not been there, and came to the conclusion it was a note from their night visitors. The watermelon was taken to a well-known Primorye biologist and ufologist Valery Dvuzhilny. "I studied the fruit, both the healthy and the impacted tissue," Dvuzhilny said. "This could not be done by insects, bacteria nor by some fungi =97 none of these could produce such a symmetrical pattern." The patterned watermelon is not an isolated case in the region. In September 2002 two watermelons with complicated pictograms on them were found in the field of farmer Nikolai Schislyayev.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 An Eccentric's Struggle For Truth From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:12:55 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:12:55 -0500 Subject: An Eccentric's Struggle For Truth Source: The Las Vegas Sun - Nevada, USA http://tinyurl.com/8zhqo December 18, 2005 An Eccentric's Struggle For Truth After shining the national spotlight on Area 51, Campbell takes on Family Court By Molly Ball Las Vegas Sun Glenn Campbell spent years trying to peel back the veil of secrecy around Area 51, a Nevada air base that, according to the U.S. government, does not exist, although it is visible from a desert ridge. Several years ago, he abandoned that quest, but the desire to get to the bottom of official secrets never left him. Today, this obsessive eccentric with a penetrating gaze hopes to shine a light on another institution shrouded in mystery: the Clark County Family Court. "I see myself doing exactly the same thing in Family Court as I was doing at Area 51, only meaningful - aliens aren't meaningful," Campbell said on a recent afternoon, sitting in the waiting room that he refers to as "the Tank." Campbell, a 46-year-old with a salt-and-pepper mustache whose eyelids flutter rapidly as he speaks, sees both Area 51 and the Family Court essentially theaters of human nature. All around him, babies squalled, parents wept and young children wandered, their faces dazed. Unlike the secret air base at Groom Lake, Family Court's existence is acknowledged by the government. But many of its courtrooms are closed, its litigants are anonymous and its records are sealed. When the court closes each night, there is no public evidence that anything happened there. And that drives Campbell crazy. His project, through a Web site cataloging his observations of the court, is to subject its proceedings to unprecedented scrutiny. He hopes to introduce Las Vegans, many of whom have been through its doors, to the real Family Court the same way he introduced the world to Area 51. Family Court is where all of the messy legal proceedings surrounding families and their dysfunctions occur. Child custody, domestic violence, divorces, child abuse - all these are decided in the court's complex, a squat cluster of buildings at the corner of Pecos and Bonanza roads. "This is where government tries to pick up the pieces - or at least stop the bleeding - of thousands of troubled families and failed relationships," Campbell writes on his Web site about the court, FamilyCourtChronicles.com. The Family Court building, he writes, "isn't just a courthouse; it's one-stop shopping for all of your dysfunctional family needs." The sardonic tone is typical of Campbell and his writing. He seems amused by the swirling carnival of human suffering he observes passing through the court every day, relishing the extremes of emotion with a clinician's zeal for the unusual. But he is not always so detached. His interest in Family Court is motivated by more than an eye for a good drama. At the bottom of his project, it turns out, lurks a broken heart. The Desert Rat In the early 1990s, long before the site was featured on the TV show "The X-Files" and in the movie "Independence Day," Campbell was one of two or three people who made Area 51 a household name. Adjacent to the Nevada Test Site, the vast base is a secret testing ground for military aircraft; many also believe it is used for government study of extraterrestrials and their spacecraft. Campbell, who attended the Ivy League's Brown University (but did not graduate) and worked as a computer programmer in Boston, ditched everything in 1992 to move to tiny Rachel, the closest settlement to the mysterious tract of land that at that time had been heard of only by Nevadans and hard-core UFO buffs. Living out of a rented trailer, Campbell set about making a pest of himself, something at which he admits he excels. He haunted the borders of the restricted area with binoculars, daring the lurking, camouflaged guards to come after him. He loudly demanded to know why a base that didn't exist was ringed by signs that warned trespassers they could be shot. From 1993 to 1997, Campbell published the Desert Rat Newsletter and the Area 51 Visitor's Guide. He gleefully hosted journalists, plane spotters and self-styled alien abductees from around the world as he sought to peel away the site's veil of secrecy. He collected every shred of information he could dig up about the base, discovering, for instance, that it received several flights a day from a satellite terminal at McCarran International Airport. He led a motley crew of base-watchers he called the Interceptors, including a designer of toy models of secret planes and a traffic engineer obsessed with the force of gravity. He was featured in an article in the New York Times Magazine and a two-hour television special hosted by Larry King. By 1996, Area 51 was so well known that the state renamed State Route 375 "The Extraterrestrial Highway," with cosmically themed signs marking its length. "Glenn made that place," said Mike Dornheim, a Los Angeles-based senior editor at Aviation Week magazine, who was one of the Interceptors. "There were other Area 51 people, but he made it accessible and interesting to the average guy." Campbell enjoyed thumbing his nose at government secrecy, an enthusiasm that eventually got him arrested. But all the while that Campbell was collecting data about the base, his real attention was focused elsewhere, Dornheim said. "It quickly became apparent to me that Glenn was really a sociologist," he said. "He was as agnostic as he could possibly be about little green men and so on, so that both sides would talk to him. What he was really doing was collecting information about how myths are formed." Campbell acknowledges that his primary interests have always been philosophical and psychological. He doesn't really care whether there are or aren't aliens. If there are, he points out, they seem to be leaving us pretty well alone. Rather, he says, what interested him was the emotional meaning of people's ideas about aliens, UFOs and Area 51. What does it feel like to believe that your real parents are extraterrestrials who abandoned you on Earth, and to realize that they aren't coming back for you? How do we cope with the feeling of being left behind on Earth? Little did Campbell know what an apt parallel this would be, years later, for his adventures with Family Court. A day in the life Family Court is the site of the gritty, everyday tragedy. Not the spectacular tragedy that leads to a murder trial or a medical-malpractice lawsuit, but a love turned sour, a child not safe at home, a teenager joyriding in a stolen car. Here the state must sort out the chaos of people's inability to get along. Felix and Latonya stand on opposite sides of a courtroom, facing the blonde, black-robed hearing master, Patricia Doninger. Felix, a tall, thin man with a shaved head and wire-rimmed glasses, wants a protective order to keep Latonya, his former girlfriend, away from him. "I've been trying to get this girl out of my life for three years," he says. "She has no respect for the law." He claims Latonya has broken into his house when he's not there. The legal back-and-forth between the pair has been going on since 2002, with protective orders in both directions. Latonya's voice quivers when it is her turn to speak. A stout woman with a ponytail of ringlets, she says she had a drug problem, but she's getting help now. She acknowledges she broke in, but says it was only to get a uniform she had left there. "He's a control freak," Latonya says, tears running down her cheeks. Felix, she says, has been holding her possessions hostage since their relationship ended. Doninger hears both sides calmly, then makes her ruling. Latonya will collect her things from Felix, accompanied by a police escort. The protective order will continue, and Latonya is not to go within 25 yards of Felix, his home or his work for another year. "Ma'am, I'm going to make a promise to you," Doninger says. "If you go to the residence again, it's going to be 25 days in jail for every violation." Latonya is sobbing openly. Felix leaves the courtroom; the bailiff will keep Latonya in a holding area for several minutes after he leaves. It is standard practice to stagger the two parties' departures so they don't get into parking-lot altercations. Doninger has spent seven years hearing protective orders against domestic violence, in all of their variety. Ex-spouses shout accusations against each other in a dispute that seems to boil down to whether their 12-year-old son ought to be in gymnastics or football. A woman asks that the bowling alley where she plays in a league every Thursday be added to her protective order because her ex-boyfriend has allegedly been following her there. In another courtroom, another hearing master tells a woman she cannot see her newborn baby because both mother and baby tested positive for methamphetamine at the hospital. In another courtroom, a hearing master is trying to scare some sense into a 15-year-old who was caught with a concealed weapon that also happened to be stolen. "We evict people from their own homes, we take away their right to see their child, we tell them to stay away from their exes," Doninger said in an interview. "It's very personal, and people yell at each other a lot." Ideally, she said, a Family Court justice can sort out a situation fairly - meaning neither party is likely to be happy. "People have the impression that I can make their lives OK - I can make someone stop saying hurtful things, or make their emotional pain stop," Doninger said. "No court can do that. All I can do is start a process to end an abusive relationship, and hopefully help the victims empower themselves." Cases such as Doninger's are the Family Court's bread and butter. To the individuals involved, nothing could be more momentous, but in the global scheme of things, each miserable tale is but a trifle. For this reason, the intimate, contentious goings-on of this courthouse rarely make it into the local media. And yet many more Clark County residents come into contact with Family Court than with the downtown courthouse that hosts criminal trials and civil lawsuits. In the year 2004, 56,434 juvenile and family cases were filed - far more than the 32,273 civil and criminal cases filed. Hidden in plain sight Family Court hearings were closed to the public until two years ago, when the Legislature opened some juvenile crime and child- abuse hearings. "I am a strong believer that the public has a right to know what happens in its courts," Family Court Judge Gerald Hardcastle, who proposed the change, said. "Public information is simply knowledge and good knowledge about the courts is always beneficial," Hardcastle said. "In an uninformed public, people tend to react to misunderstood circumstances." Because the legislation was enacted recently and few people want to spend their free time at Family Court, the new law's effects have not been noticeable. This is Campbell's point: An open system might as well be closed unless someone is there to watch it. "What has always been lacking in Family Court is good oversight," Campbell said. "It's the same as Area 51 - a secret organization, with all the same problems of government secrecy. Kids can be really abused by the system, and no one sees it, no one knows. "My intention is to turn the court into a more open entity." The home page of FamilyCourtChronicles.com is topped with a Renaissance painting of the Judgment of Solomon, the biblical story in which the wise king mediated a dispute between two women who both claimed the same baby as their son. Solomon, the story goes, decreed that the baby should be cut in half. When one of the women said she would give up the child rather than see it harmed, the king knew she was the true mother. On Campbell's Web site, the painting is captioned, "A typical custody matter in Family Court." The Web site includes several chapters of Campbell's observations of the courts, which he hopes to turn into a book; profiles of judges, lawyers, officials and other court personalities, and a Web log of local media coverage of Family Court-related issues. The most entertaining section is the glossary, which effectively sums up Campbell's worldview. Some examples: # On Reality: "In our modern culture of virtual reality video games and continuous audio-visual entertainment, reality is an increasingly tenuous concept. I boldly contend, however, that reality is in fact real and can provide you with some of the most rewarding interactive experiences available." # On Adolf Hitler: "One wishes that someone could have intervened in this boy's life at an early age, thus greatly reducing his eventual costs to society." # On Love: "The unreality of the initial delusion has a direct relation to the eventual nastiness of the divorce." # On Tragedy: "Whenever we get cancer or lose a loved one or our house burns to the ground, we say, 'How can such a tragedy happen?' Get real! Tragedy is happening all the time, all around us, but our cocoon has prevented us from seeing it. If we didn't have so many layers around us, maybe we wouldn't be so surprised. " Those who have come into contact with Campbell at the court say they are not entirely sure what he's up to, but they are impressed by his approach. "I think he is trying to get it right," Hardcastle said. "He has a good layman's understanding of the court based upon his efforts to watch what actually occurs ... I do not understand why he has focused on Family Court, but more than most, he seems truly interested in understanding how the court works." Many self-styled Family Court activists have an ax to grind - they see themselves as being wronged by the system, and they extrapolate broad conspiracy theories about the court as a whole. Campbell's point of view is more credible because it is based on careful observation, according to Hearing Master Stephen Compan, who hears juvenile criminal cases. "There are people out on the fringes who are just disgruntled; he's not," Compan said. "We get such a negative reputation, but anyone who comes and observes with an open mind is going to see that we're trying." Campbell's strength is his ability to observe from many perspectives and describe what he sees, Doninger said. "He's such an excellent writer, and his observations are very realistic," Doninger said. "He doesn't slant it one way or the other. He's able to grasp the judges' side and the litigants' side. He can see the complexity." Campbell has worked hard to create this impression of lack of bias. But in fact, it only takes a little bit of digging to hit the raw emotion underneath. Click the link on FamilyCourtChronicles.com labeled "Patricia," and you come face to face with a smiling, towheaded 4-year-old. She is wearing a flowered turtleneck and looking over her shoulder at the camera, her expression one of contentedness and possibly mischief. She is Campbell's lost child. Campbell's nightmare Like most people, Campbell was dragged unwillingly into the Family Court system. He and his wife, a Rachel resident he met in his Area 51 days, were living in Las Vegas and running a bookstore. In 1998 they made the tough decision to become foster parents to her troubled cousin's 6-week-old daughter, a cherubic blonde baby named Patricia. For nearly six years, the two were the only parents Patricia knew. From the child's first day with them, they expected they would adopt her permanently. But the paperwork dragged on and on; the Family Services Department caseworker wouldn't return their calls. Patricia's drug-addicted mother kept getting second and third chances, even as she lapsed repeatedly back into addiction. In 2003, with their relationship long on the decline, Campbell's wife kicked him out of the house for good. Before long, both were accusing each other of abuse, and Patricia was back in the child protection system. Campbell and his wife, who asked not to be named in this story, agree on these facts. Clark County Family Services Director Susan Klein-Rothschild said she could not confirm the details of confidential cases. The two disagree on the reasons surrounding their divorce. Each says the other is to blame and calls the other cruel and manipulative, allegations that are best not hashed out in print. Campbell and his wife do agree, however, that their attempt to adopt Patricia was too mired in red tape and that, as foster parents who raised her from babyhood, they should have had more of a say in the case. One of the things Campbell hopes to call attention to in Family Court is what he sees as a lack of foster parent rights. As required by their divorce settlement, Campbell continues to pay the mortgage on their house. This means he can't afford a place of his own on the income he makes with his online books- and-maps business. He lives out of his van, his inventory stashed in storage lockers, sleeping in the desert under the stars. After a brief idyll as a more or less conventional family man, the Desert Rat has returned to his habitat. He has not seen Patricia in nearly two years. He recently got word she had been adopted by her new foster family. The thought of her makes him cry hot, unwilled, out-of-character tears for a man who likes to keep an ironic distance. It is clear that he took up Family Court as a subject as a way to make sense of Patricia's case - a way to understand what kind of system would beg people to take in a suffering child, then discard them. But these days, Campbell's project has also become a way of forgetting about Patricia, it seems. It is too late to do anything to get Patricia back, and he knows it. He admits that, as a divorced, homeless man, he wouldn't be able to care for her properly anyway. So he has replaced Patricia with hundreds of other children - children for whom it is not too late, and whose pain he can empathize with without his own pain getting in the way. Campbell has a hard time defining his goals with the Family Court project. He says he hopes the Web site will help others going through Family Court put their experiences in context, and will create public accountability for court proceedings by bringing them out into the open. He also hopes to be an activist in certain cases and for general changes he believes could improve the system. But in many ways, the project seems a pure product of Campbell's compulsion to get to the bottom of things, especially secret things, and his extraordinary tenacity. Once fascinated by something and presented with a way in, he can't help himself. He can't stop until he's cataloged every detail. Campbell recalls the day he discovered that many Family Court hearings were open to the public. "It was the whole Area 51 system - totally closed, decisions that can't be questioned - but suddenly there was an opening," he said. He went to the next hearing on Patricia's case and asked to sit in. At first the bailiff told him the courtroom was closed, but Campbell appealed to Hardcastle and was admitted. From then on, he was hooked. He began spending one or two days a week in the courtrooms of Family Court. He never mentions Patricia's case when he haunts Family Court these days. "She's just one of many children - I have a mission to all of them," he said. "I've been sent by the aliens to explore this planet, to explore the extremes of human experience," Campbell explained. "They
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Bermuda Triangle Mystery Still Haunts From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:17:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:17:56 -0500 Subject: Bermuda Triangle Mystery Still Haunts Source: The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, Wisconsin, USA http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec05/378647.asp Dec. 17, 2005 Bermuda Triangle Mystery Still Haunts 40 years after plane's disappearance, families have no answers By Meg Jones mjones.nul Posted: The last words were innocuous: "Roger. Miami overseas, 6567." It was probably Louie Giuntoli's voice. The 41-year-old pilot of the C-119 Flying Boxcar sounded calm on the radio as he acknowledged switching to a clearer frequency of 6567 kilocycles. He didn't sound like a man in distress. He didn't sound like a man about to disappear. The crew from Milwaukee's 440th Airlift Wing was flying over the Atlantic Ocean south of Florida on the heavily traveled Yankee Route. Though maps don't identify the area as such, it's known as the Bermuda Triangle. Another half-hour and the 10 men on board should have arrived at their destination, Grand Turk Island in the Bahamas. It was a clear night with good flying weather. When they didn't land, radio traffic controllers started calling Plane No. 680. The crew didn't answer. Nothing more was heard from Plane No. 680. Nothing was found. Not the men. Not their aircraft. Only a few scraps of debris that could have been tossed out of the cargo plane. It's as if they were just swallowed up by the turquoise waters. That was 40 years ago. It's been four decades of silence. And pain. For the families and friends and colleagues of the missing 440th crew, their questions will never be answered. And even though the Air Force Reserve wing in Milwaukee will soon close, Plane No. 680 hasn't been forgotten. All that is left now is a plaque dedicated to the crew that hangs at the 440th headquarters and a C-119 plane painted exactly like the missing aircraft that's on display near one of the facility's gates. The loss left a hole in the 440th - an entire flight crew plus experienced maintenance specialists. Kids grew up without their dads, wives continued their lives without their mates, co- workers wondered about the fate of their friends and colleagues. Two brothers, different fates It was a routine mission: drop off an engine and a maintenance crew on Grand Turk Island, pick up bundles of concertina wire in Puerto Rico and drop them off in the Dominican Republic. Then return home to Milwaukee. Dick Nugent was a loadmaster for the 440th, and so was his brother Thomas. Dick Nugent had just finished a week of air drops at Fort Benning, Ga., and since he had reached his allotment of military flights, his 30-year-old brother took his place on Plane No. 680. "He was my kid brother. I got off and he got on," said Dick Nugent, now 72. Dick Nugent knows he could just as easily have been on that plane on that day, and it would be his brother Thomas who would be asking questions four decades later. "I wanted to go down there and help in the search, but they wouldn't let me. It was awful hard to take," he said. Phyllis Adams dropped off her husband, Milt, 36, a flight engineer, at the 440th headquarters at Mitchell Field on June 5, 1965. It was a Saturday. Her daughters, 14 and 8, and 7-year-old son came along. "Well, myself and my three kids took him to the airport and he said goodbye and he said, 'I'll see you in a few days.' And that was it," said Phyllis Adams, 73, who met her husband while she was on a date with Milt's cousin. Milt Adams disappeared not long before he would have celebrated his 10th wedding anniversary. Someone from the 440th called her the day after she dropped her husband off and told her his plane was overdue but that she shouldn't worry. "Famous last words," she said. She has thought of him every day since June 5, 1965. She has questions that will never be answered. She has read the official accident report and noted the number of pages that are missing or blacked out. "Let me put it this way: That was a big aircraft. There were 10 people on board. They had another engine on board. There was luggage," Phyllis Adams said. "You mean to tell me that if that plane crashed that nothing was found? "I don't buy it, I will never buy it." Also on the plane that night: the co-pilot, 1st Lt. Lawrence F. Gares, 27, of Milwaukee; the navigator, Capt. Richard J. Bassett, 32, of Milwaukee; and the maintenance crew, Raoul P. Benedict, 35, of Milwaukee; Duane W. Brooks, 32, of Caledonia; Norman J. Mimier, 34 of Muskego; and Frank Ellison, 41, of Muskego. A 10th person, John W. Lazenry, was also on board. The Air Force airman was picked up in Miami and hitching a ride to the Bahamas on the Flying Boxcar, which got its name from the bulky cargo area between the distinctive twin tails. Crews used to joke that the C-119 traveled so slowly that the Earth rotated underneath it. Other planes vanished, too The Milwaukee C-119 wasn't the first, the biggest, nor the last aircraft to disappear in the Bermuda Triangle. Though the triangle has been the subject of many books and TV documentaries, Plane No. 680 is simply one more incident in a long list of mysterious disappearances in the area loosely defined as stretching from Bermuda to Miami to San Juan, Puerto Rico. In 1945, 14 men in five TBM Avengers flying in formation on a routine two-hour exercise on a sunny day disappeared after leaving Fort Lauderdale, Fla. A PBM Mariner and its 13-person crew sent out to search for the missing planes vanished, too. Six planes and 27 men. Gone. In 1948, a DC-3 with 31 people on board disappeared while flying from Puerto Rico to Miami during the Christmas holiday. The DC-3 signaled Miami air traffic controllers when it was about 50 miles away. Then nothing. Gian J. Quasar, author of "Into the Bermuda Triangle," said aircraft have vanished as radio tower controllers watched them. Many disappeared in good weather, many were being tracked on radar when the signal was suddenly lost, and quite a few have been lost in relatively shallow water. "One thing is in common: They don't send out (a distress) signal, there's no indication they had an impact, and they all vanish," Quasar said. "One or two you can dismiss, but we're talking about hundreds" of disappearances. Planes and ships were sent out to look for Plane No. 680, but nothing was found during the days-long search of 54,000 square miles - no oil slick, no life rafts, no debris. A few months later, Milwaukee newspapers reported that the Air Force eventually found a wheel chock with the plane's number, and near Grand Rock Cay in the Bahamas, part of a box lid with "ION KIT" stenciled on it - from a "Contact Mission Kit" - turned up. The discovery of debris is not mentioned in the 104-page Air Force investigation report obtained through the U.S. Freedom of Information Act. Seventeen pages have been deleted from the report released to the public, and numerous pages are blacked out because of personal information about the crew and testimony from military officials. Osbee "Sam" Sampson watched his friends get on the C-119 that day, joked with them as he did on many other missions and saw them take off at 10:51 a.m. A maintenance crew member who later became a loadmaster and flew the same routes as the crew that disappeared, Sampson packed four yellow 20-person life rafts and 20 one-person life rafts on the plane for his friends in case something happened. Along with Sampson's buddies, the life rafts were never seen again. "Frank Ellison, I remember his last words to me. He told me to behave myself. I told (Nugent), 'I hope they put enough food on the plane.' Man, he could eat," said Sampson, now 69. "There wasn't a time when I flew through the Bermuda Triangle that I didn't think that could happen to me. There wasn't anything you could do about it." The flying crew was seasoned, with thousands of flight hours between them, and the maintenance crew were experts at their jobs, whether it was propellers or engines. So if there was a mechanical problem on the flight, there were plenty of people to take care of it. Plane No. 680 landed at Homestead Air Force Base in Florida at 5:04 p.m., spent two hours and 43 minutes on the ground and took off at 7:47 p.m. ascending to 9,000 feet as it headed south to the Bahamas. The radio chatter was routine. Then silence. Radio controllers in Miami, New York, San Juan, Puerto Rico and Grand Turk Island tried to find Plane No. 680 and asked each other if anyone had heard from the crew. The investigation report notes the time the Flying Boxcar would have run out of fuel. "It has to be an explosion or something for them not to say anything" on the radio, said Sampson, noting that with all of the gear on board, he was surprised that so little debris was discovered. "Even if you're having trouble, you switch on the radio so they can track you. There had to have been a big bang." Word began to spread through the 440th the next day, a Sunday, that one of their planes was missing. Instead of going to church, many members went to the air wing's headquarters to talk, ask questions and comfort each other. Some visited the families of the missing. Most held out hope on that first day and for the next few days that the crew would be found, said Joe Davis, 73, who spent three decades with the unit. Their lockers at the 440th were left untouched for months. 'There's got to be an answer' This is what went through Davis' mind: Maybe they panicked, but that's not likely since they were an experienced crew. Maybe it blew up, but if it did, there would have been a lot of debris. Maybe there was an engine failure and they tried to make an emergency landing on the water, but there would have been debris. Maybe they were shot down by a Cuban plane, but no oil slick was found. "I think at the time everybody went through every scenario," said Davis, who coincidentally sold Benedict a $10,000 life insurance policy. "The hardest thing to dispel is there's got to be an answer. "The crew was highly qualified. That's what makes it all harder that there was some scenario that they couldn't handle."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:51:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:51:27 -0500 Subject: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? Who is behind ufoevidence.org and why are they ripping-off many in the field? There've been many complaints about the site. The work of UFO authors, researchers, witnesses and websites is being posted to the ufoevidence.org site without credit or attribution to those who created the material. Back in January of this year WhoIs listed the following info on ufoevidence.org: Tech Name:DEVESH KUMAR Tech Organization: Tech Street1:6104 NE 60th Tech Street2: Tech Street3: Tech City:Seattle Tech State/Province:WA Tech Postal Code:98115 Tech Country:US Tech Phone:+1.4252521410 Tech Phone Ext.: Tech FAX:+1.1231231234 Tech FAX Ext.: Tech Email:devesh.nul Name Server:NS1.WORLDREV.ORG It seems many complaints were sent to ufoevidence.org - they were ignored. The orginal host also ignored e-mails. As of a WhoIs this morning the owner/registrant is now hiding behind a registration proxy: --- Registrant ID:GODA-07031045 Registrant Name:Registration Private Registrant Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc. Registrant Street1:DomainsByProxy.com Registrant Street2:15511 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353 Registrant Street3: Registrant City:Scottsdale Registrant State/Province:Arizona Registrant Postal Code:85260 Registrant Country:US Registrant Phone:+1.4806242599 Registrant Phone Ext.: Registrant FAX: Registrant FAX Ext.: Registrant Email:UFOEVIDENCE.ORG.nul --- Hosted by: --- Domain name: worldispnetwork.com Registrant Contact: Whois Privacy Protection Service, Inc. Whois Agent (lhrpqkmf.nul) +1.4252740657 Fax: +1.4256960234 PMB 368, 14150 NE 20th St - F1 C/O worldispnetwork.com Bellevue, WA 98007 US --- The current ufoevidence.org site offers only this info: --- Contact Information Email address info.nul Website address www.ufoevidence.org The UFOEvidence.org website is based in and operated from Seattle, WA, USA, near Mt. Rainier, the site of Kenneth Arnold's 1947 sighting that marked the beginning of the modern UFO phenomenon. --- If any subscribers to this List have had their material used without credit/attribution or permission, feel free
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:40:06 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:00:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files - >From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 13:38:22 -0600 >Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >>From: David Rudiak <drudiak.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:56:06 -0800 >>Subject: Re: Leslie Kean Pressing NASA For 'UFO' Files >><snip> >>And now a NASA spokesman says it wasn't a meteor after all but a >>"Russian satellite." So who's got the story right? ><snip> >http://www.astronautix.com/craft/zenit2.htm >27 November 1965 Cosmos 98 Launch Site: Baikonur. >Launch Vehicle: Vostok 8A92. Mass: 4,720 kg. Perigee: 205 km. >Apogee: 547 km. >Inclination: 65.0 deg. Duration: 8.00 days. >Area survey photo reconnaissance satellite. Ok possibly some more non-helpful info that's not in regard to Kosmos-96 Venus probe. Rather the focus here is placed on the Kosmos-98 recon satellite. It should be pointed out that first generation reconnaissance satellites also known as Zenith-2, to my surprise did have two instances of extended duration flight beyond that of 8d. We have three instances that I could find which also includes Cosmos-98: http://planet4589.org/space/log/satcat.txt S000571 1963-012A Kosmos-16 Zenit-2 No. 10 NII-88 1963 Apr 28 Landed 1963 May 8 1963 Apr 30 LEO/I 90.30 195 x 384 x 65.0 201x379; 64.7=B0, 10d S001780 1965-097A Kosmos-98 Zenit-2 No. 31 MOM 1965 Nov 27 Landed 1965 Dec 5 1965 Nov 28 LEO/I 92.06 205 x 547 x 65.0 205x547; 65.0=B0, 8d S003115 1968-003C Kosmos-199 Zenit-2 No. 59 MOM 1968 Jan 16 Reentered 1968 Jan 30 1968 Jan 25 LEO/I 88.36 144 x 243 x 65.6 also: ZENIT-2 launch data http://jagor.srce.hr/damirspace/zen2data.htm So, we gather that Kosmos-16 in 1963 with 10d. and Kosmos-199 in 1968 with 16d, while Kosmos-98 had 8d so what? Well my observation is simply this, did Kosmos-98 really have an 8d flight ? In other words how do get from here to their Nov 27 - Dec 09 =3D 12 days Lets look at this page but follow along with the authors statement: http://jagor.srce.hr/damirspace/sovphoto.htm "The only landing capsule of all the Zeniths is main 2.3 m dia module which is returned with exposed films and cameras. On the top of the spherical landing module was an subsatellite released during flight. Was it sometime Voskhod-2 type solid motor or more advanced maneuvering unit? " On the same page, scroll down to the bottom where you will see: Zenit-2M Gektor - 2rd gen. area photo recce or here's the link, http://jagor.srce.hr/damirspace/zen2m.htm ...Located at the bottom of this page: ZENIT-2M GEKTOR launch data and here's that link, http://jagor.srce.hr/damirspace/zen2mdata.htm As shown from the flight data the first flight of "Second Generation Zenith-2 were COSMOS 208 on 1968 Mar 21, but now notice the normal flight duration of ZENITH-2M GEKTOR.. "12d" interesting ?. Here is another view of the 'spherical landing module and sub- satellite' but an different link. http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/histind/Recces/first.htm So what? Well here we are at the crucible of the problem, which leads us to postulate an "what if scenario", now reviewing again the authors statement from above: "On the top of the spherical landing module was an sub-satellite released during flight. Was it sometime Voskhod-2 type solid motor or more advanced maneuvering unit? " What I can gather here the author is questioning, is simply had this service module been released during re-entry or did it go down with the spherical landing module using guided re-entry ? Do we have any experts here that could help clear this matter up ? I'm sure the module was released, but again what if it were stuck at the time of re-entry? Finally what if the mission *were* extended from 8 to 12 days which later caused problems for re-entry, were this 'service module' had not separated from the 'spherical re-entry vehicle' as a result and off-coarse caused from mis-firing of these maneuvering engines. Now here is something else that I'm sure someone will quickly point out, well John had the service module not separated then it should have burned up right?, Burned up! you say?, well could this be the fireball, then as a later consequence from these maneuvering engines firing which caused a change of course upon descent ? The chute of the re-entry vehicle failing to open because the service module failed to detach and still enough fuel on board
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Ice Circle Sudbury Ontario From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:52:03 -0800 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:02:23 -0500 Subject: Ice Circle Sudbury Ontario CCCRN NEWS E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network December 19, 2005 http://www.cccrn.ca _____________________________ ICE CIRCLE - SUDBURY, ONTARIO While only five known crop circle reports were received by CCCRN this past summer / fall, another "ice circle" was found on December 9, near Sudbury, Ontario, in snow-covered creek ice. Approximately 12-18 metres (40-60 feet) diameter, with a 2.5-5 centimetre (1-2 inch) deep 'V'-shaped groove in the ice defining the circle's perimeter. There is another possible groove a few inches inside of the outer groove. Photos here: http://www.cccrn.ca/sudbury05a.jpg http://www.cccrn.ca/sudbury05b.jpg http://www.cccrn.ca/sudbury05c.jpg http://www.cccrn.ca/sudbury05d.jpg The circle is in a bend of the creek, so it is possible this is a type of ice ring that has formed from a swirling eddy, as is believed to be the cause of most such formations (with more diffuse edges), yet the sharp, incised edge is more difficult to explain, and is similar to the ice circle at Delta, Ontario in 2000 in this regard. A strong, unpleasant smell had also been reported a few weeks previously in the area. Thanks to David Chevrier, Brian Vike, Nancy Talbott, Jeff Wilson and Andreas Muller for their assistance and input. The location is fairly remote and as of yet, CCCRN Ontario hasn't been able to go to the site yet, but other efforts are still being made. *Also, the CCCRN web site is currently under re-construction and moved to a new server, so the files are being revamped and transferred at the same time as time allows. The web site should be back up by early January (tentatively January 1). Thank you for your patience! *Please note also that the default setting for CCCRN News is now html/styled text & graphics, for anyone who wishes to receive these free e-mail updates who isn't already. The file sizes will be kept to a minimum, including any imbedded graphics. The edited copies of the same updates (like this one) posted to other mailing lists and forums however, are plain text only. Paul Anderson
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:08:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:07:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET - >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 20:25:52 -0000 >Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:38:05 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Former Politicians To Look Out For ET <snip> >>(Again I point out that this ignores the implications of UFO >>sightings. One wonders whether or not the numerous UFO >>sightings in the late 40's prompted this brief discussion by >>Fermi and others, or if it simply came "out of the blue"... or >Yes, discussion of UFO sightings prompted Fermi and others to >discuss extraterrestrials during the relevant lunch in 1950. >It seems that the relevant group had been discussing UFO >reports, then moved on to other topics when Fermi came out with >his question (rendered variously as "Where are they?", "Where is >everybody" etc etc). >The relevant discussion is summarised by Stephen Webb in his >"Where is Everybody?: Fifty Solutions to the Fermi Paradox" >(2002) at pages 17-18 (in Chapter 2), 245 (in the Notes and >Further Reading) of the Copernicus hardback edition. That >summary is largely based on an article by Eric Jones entitled ">'Where is Everybody?': An Account of Fermi's Question," Los >Alamos National Laboratory report number LA-10311-MS, March >1985.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 CI: Mars Crater Pyramid Reimaged From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:01:38 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:09:33 -0500 Subject: CI: Mars Crater Pyramid Reimaged Cydonian Imperative 12-19-05 The Crater Pyramid Reimaged by Mac Tonnies For links and graphics visit: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html Like the Cliff feature in Cydonia, the Crater Pyramid (CM) is located on the edge of a crater. To some, this proximity implies intelligent construction, since the energy released by the impact would very likely have toppled any nearby formations. It's plausible the CM formed after the impact - but if so, how? [image] The Crater Pyramid as seen by Viking. The circle highlights interesting "furrow" features. In the original Viking image (above), the CM dominates the stark landscape and casts an elongated triangular shadow. Viewed in high-resolution, the CM appears less pyramidal and more conical. The sharp sides inferred from the Viking image are dull or nonexistent (as would be expected from natural formations and ancient artificial sites alike). Curiously, the prominent trailing shadow seems to be missing despite the low sun-angle. [image] High-resolution image of the Crater Pyramid. As the tallest formation in the region, the Crater Pyramid appears out-of-place, but without confirming photos from different sun-angles it's difficult to assess the feature's relevance to the Artificiality Hypothesis. If the Crater Pyramid is artificial, we might expect conspicuous detail at increased resolutions. Moreover, new images are needed to evaluate the so- called rectilinear furrows, or "tunnels," seen marking a nearby crater. Properly imaged, these may cast light on the Crater Pyramid's origin. Are we seeing an unusual hill or a derelict megastructure?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Hey There Blimpy Boy From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:52:09 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:52:09 -0500 Subject: Hey There Blimpy Boy Source: Shanghaiist - New York, NY, USA http://tinyurl.com/cgesn December 20, 2005 Hey There, Blimpy Boy A couple of weeks ago, Shanghai was beset by rumours of UFO sightings. According to a story in the Shanghai Daily: "...a man named Hu told the Xinmin Evening News he saw the UFO in the sky near the Outer Ring Road in Xinzhuan area at 4:30pm. It was visible for about 5 minutes, Hu said. A man named Luo said he saw a bright oval object flying west towards Jiuting Town at 5pm when he was near Qibao Town. He tried to take a picture of it with his digital camera, but failed. A man named Yang said he saw the UFO near the Laoximen in Jianguo Road E. at 4:44pm. He said it was a thumb-like orange oblong object hanging in the southeast sky and moving slowly east..." [image] Shanghaiist has a theory that maybe what so many people were looking at and getting excited about was, in fact, just your run-of-the-mill blimp. We suggest this because while we were in Super Brand Mall last night for the opening of a brace of new restaurants on the shopping centre=92s 6th floor =97 for the record, Golden Elephant Thai and Mythical China =97 we spotted this zeppelin (pictured) swooping up and down above the Huangpu. Note how the brightly lit aircraft possesses the typical cigar shape of many UFOs. We feel that this could well have been a factor in leading people to jump to their alien-related conclusions. It certainly sounds like the "bright oval object" mentioned by Mr Luo, above. Indeed, the only thing that might have cast doubt in the minds of sky-gazers was if they read the enormous Chinese characters plastered on the side of the blimp, advertising the 10th anniversary of the Shanghai Yao Han Department Store. Doesn=92t sound like the kind of thing that Martians would have at the top of their list of messages to impart to the human race. Still, we stand by our theory. The Shanghai UFO =3D the Huangpu Blimp. In other UFO news, China=92s largest publication dealing with unidentified flying objects, The Journal of UFO Research, is set to become a monthly from January 2006. Who knows, perhaps the truth will be revealed =97 once and for all =97 about Shanghai=92s recent "visitor"...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Seasons Greetings From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:12:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:53:47 -0500 Subject: Seasons Greetings Dear Friends and Colleagues, On behalf of the members of the Institute of Hispanic Ufology: Our very best wishes to you this holiday season and thank you for your support this year! - Scott Corrales
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 'Project Serpo' Mission Details From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:07:59 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:07:59 -0500 Subject: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details Source: American Chronicle - Beverly Hills, California, USA http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=3D4246 December 16, 2005 'Project Serpo' Mission To Visitors' Home Planet Described In Detail By Steve Hammons Reports and rumors have been floating around for decades that contact between the U.S. Government and beings from another planet, or other planets, has been established. These stories include information about government acquisition of advanced technologies, greater scientific knowledge and other important assets. Some people claim that top secret organizations and agencies were created to coordinate these sensitive operations. Now, reports have surfaced about an alleged U.S. Government military effort called "Project SERPO." This program allegedly selected and trained a joint-service military team to accompany friendly "visitors" from another planet back to their home for a planned ten-year stay, conducting a wide range of scientific research. On the newly-developed Web site serpo.org, this alleged project is explained and the Web site itself is described as "the gradual release of confidential documents pertaining to a top secret exchange program of twelve U.S. military personnel to Serpo, a planet of Zeta Reticuli, between the years 1965-78." Movies, books, TV programs and other media platforms have been used to comment on UFOs and these kinds of ideas over the years. Some of us may think these concepts are based on actual facts. Some may feel that think these ideas might possibly be based on realities. Some of us seem to think they are probably not at all accurate and are simply creative storytelling and wishful thinking. According to Bill Ryan, a UFO researcher and coordinator of the serpo.org Web site, early last month, an interesting source came to his attention and to the attention of his associates. Ryan says "a retired senior official" within the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), who requested to not be named at this time, stated that he represented a group of six current and former DIA officials. These sources began providing information to Ryan and his colleagues on November 2 and have continued through December. Ryan states on the Web site that he considers the possibilities that the information presented is not true, is partially true, is completely true or some combination of these. He explains that other "insiders" have previously reported on a project such as this and seem to believe that the information is possibly accurate. In fact, he mentions a discussion he learned about between an active duty Air Force lieutenant colonel and a retired Air Force intelligence colonel. The younger man had been following the alleged Project SERPO information being released and wanted to bounce it off the senior officer. In person, he provided the retired colonel with the written material. "After he was finished, he stated, 'Oh my God, who on this Earth would release such classified material?' I then asked him if all this information was real. His simple answer was, 'yes, all real.' I then asked the colonel if he had been involved with this project. He said, yes, he was involved in the communications aspect of this operation from about 1961 until 1965. He was also on the debriefing team. He wouldn't provide too much information, saying that unless he saw that all information was declassified, he could not comment on details. I thanked him and left." First Report From 'Anonymous' "First let me introduce myself. My name is Request Anonymous. I am a retired employee of the U.S. Government. I won't go into any great details about my past, but I was involved in a special program." Thus apparently began the recounting of a very interesting series of reports on alleged events involving visitors from another planet and their contact with the United States Government. "Anonymous" stated that there were two crash sites in New Mexico near Roswell. One crash was near Corona and the other near Datil. The first was discovered in 1947 and the second not until 1949. A crash survivor was found near the Corona crash. Other occupants apparently did not survive. However, their bodies were recovered, he says. The craft were eventually taken to Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio (now Wright-Patterson Air Force Base). The surviving "visitor" was housed on U.S. Government facilities and lived until 1952, Anonymous states. Using communication equipment from the craft, the visitor was able to, and allowed to, make contact with his home planet. Anonymous claims that by 1962, an "exchange program" was developed between the U.S. and the visitors. A twelve-person, joint-service military team of ten men and two women were selected from a large pool of candidates. Special training programs were developed for them. (Of interest, U.S. Army Special Forces teams typically consist of twelve men. This has been found to be an optimal team size in some ways for certain operations.) Then, in July 1965, at the Nevada Test Site, the visitors landed, the twelve Americans boarded the spacecraft and departed for a planned ten-year stay with the visitors. The Americans returned in 1978. That is, eight returned alive along with the bodies of two who died on the visitors' planet, according to Anonymous. Two others chose to remain there. All of those who returned alive have since passed on, he says. Team Selection And Training Anonymous states that there was a rigorous selection and training process for the team members. Their military backgrounds, psychological profiles and other aspects of fitness for the mission were taken into consideration. He states that over 56,000 people were initially considered, and this was whittled down to the final twelve, with some back-ups if needed. He says they went through many months of training that included various scientific disciplines, military skills and other needed preparedness. The training took place at several military installations and sites inside and outside of the U.S. The team was "sheep-dipped," intelligence community lingo for bringing them into a clandestine, covert, "black" operating modality. And, in this case, attempting to coordinate explanations for a ten-year absence from family, friends and associates. Anonymous claims 90,500 pounds of equipment, food and supplies were taken with them when they departed with the visitors onboard one of their larger spacecraft. The trip took nine months to reach the planet Serpo. Americans On Serpo Anonymous says detailed reports from our team reveal a huge amount of information about the visitors and their home planet. He states the planet lies within a solar system of the Zeta Recticular Star System, two yellow double stars, similar to our Sun. The atmosphere was similar to Earth's, he says. The team took several months to adjust. There was strong radiation on the planet and the temperature was hot =96 between 94 and 115 degrees. However, in the planet's northern hemisphere, the temperature ranged from about 55 to 80 degrees. The climate was generally quite dry. The U.S. team studied the "Eben" society and lived among them. They learned that the Eben civilization was approximately 10,000 years old and had evolved on another planet. In many ways, the Eben culture was similar to our own, with leaders, communities, family life of male and female couples with children, occupations, music, games and worship of a Supreme Being. Anonymous states they had advanced and effective technologies, though the American team did not understand all of it. The Ebens were friendly and caring toward the Americans. Communication between the human team members and Ebens was often difficult, though both groups learned some of the others' language. Some individuals of both groups were better at it than others, Anonymous states. Hand signs were also used as well as translation devices that had limited capabilities. When the two Americans died on Serpo, the Ebens offered medical services and demonstrated sadness. Ebens attended the burial ceremonies that the humans held. The U.S. team explored the planet as much as possible, examined the animal and plant life as well as the climate, geology, geography, physics and other areas of interest. How Much Truth? If the information revealed by Anonymous and his associates has truth to it, this would seem to be signal that responsible people now feel that further disclosure about such matters is appropriate at this time. Some UFO researchers have indicated that a plan of gradual release of information about these issues, within the U.S. and internationally, has been ongoing for decades using various public media platforms of open source intelligence (OSINT). The purpose of a gradual disclosure of some information about this area has allegedly been to carefully analyze various risk factors and maintain proper security of sensitive intelligence. At the same time, some investigators have said that there is a range of opinion among experts and insiders on these kinds of projects about what kind and how much information, if any at all, should be disclosed to the general public. However, the gradual preparation of human society about these alleged discoveries seems to have proceeded, according to some researchers. In light of the Project SERPO story, some people are taking a second look at Steven Spielberg's movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." In that film, a coordinated meeting took place with extraterrestrial visitors. Then, a twelve-person team, ten men and two women, went with the visitors. Spielberg reportedly had advisors and consultants on the film who provided him with insight on these subjects. Anonymous says he and his team are planning to release more information about Project SERPO. Many in the U.S. and around the world will surely continue to analyze these reports carefully and try to determine if they are accurate, a psychological
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Secrecy News -- 12/20/05 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:17:11 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:18:40 -0500 Subject: Secrecy News -- 12/20/05 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2005, Issue No. 116 December 20, 2005 ** AGENCIES TOLD TO STANDARDIZE "SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED" ** NSA SURVEILLANCE OPERATION CONTROVERSY BUILDS ** DESTRUCTION OF AIRCRAFT TO PREVENT ENEMY USE ** TIME OUT, REALLY AGENCIES TOLD TO STANDARDIZE "SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED" In an initiative with potentially significant implications for public access to government information, the White House has told executive branch agencies to develop standard procedures for handling of "sensitive but unclassified" information. "To promote and enhance the effective and efficient acquisition, access, retention, production, use, management, and sharing of Sensitive But Unclassified (SBU) information, including homeland security information, law enforcement information, and terrorism information, procedures and standards for designating, marking, and handling SBU information must be standardized across the Federal Government," according to a December 16 White House memorandum. Agencies are required to assess their procedures for handling SBU and report on them to the Director of National Intelligence within 90 days. Within a year, the DNI, with other agency heads, is to present recommendations for the President's approval on standardized SBU procedures. As a result of the White House initiative, the category of "sensitive but unclassified" is poised to become the government's largest single information control category. Yet there is no generally accepted definition of "sensitive." The President's directive does not acknowledge the reality that agencies often consider information sensitive for political or bureaucratic reasons unrelated to legitimate security or privacy concerns. Nor does the new White House memorandum consider that some kinds of admittedly sensitive information should nevertheless be publicly disclosed to promote government efficiency and accountability. The complexity of these issues may in fact be insurmountable. The development of uniform government-wide procedures for SBU is "far too big a task to come to fruition," a senior government official who first disclosed the interagency effort told Secrecy News (12/12/05). The President's December 16 memorandum, "Guidelines and Requirements in Support of the Information Sharing Environment," including Guideline 3 on Standard Procedures for SBU, is available here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2005/12/wh121605-memo.html NSA SURVEILLANCE OPERATION CONTROVERSY BUILDS The controversy over reported domestic surveillance activity by the National Security Agency has continued to build, as some new details and some nuances that were previously missed (by Secrecy News, at any rate) became apparent. For one thing, as we should have noted yesterday, the operation is limited to communications in which one party is outside the U.S. "The authorization given to NSA by the President requires that one end of these communications has to be outside the United States. I can assure you, by the physics of the intercept, by how we actually conduct our activities, that one end of these communications are always outside the United States of America," said Deputy Director of National Intelligence Michael V. Hayden at a press briefing yesterday. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2005/12/ag121905.html Meanwhile, the President's assertion that he possesses inherent constitutional authority to conduct such surveillance, while objectionable to some, is not made up out of whole cloth (though its full scope is uncertain). A November 2002 FIS Court of Review decision acknowledged "the President's inherent constitutional authority to conduct warrantless foreign intelligence surveillance." See that decision here: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/fiscr111802.html But the President's claim that members of Congress had somehow signed off on the action was exposed as hollow. "Leaders in the United States Congress have been briefed more than a dozen times on this program," the President said yesterday. Yet one of those leaders, Sen. Jay Rockefeller, released a handwritten note he sent to Vice President Cheney in 2003 recording his dismay at the program and his inability to endorse it. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2005/12/rock121905.pdf DESTRUCTION OF AIRCRAFT TO PREVENT ENEMY USE When capture or abandonment of a U.S. military aircraft is imminent, "any classified documents, notes, instructions, or other written material... must be destroyed in a manner to render them useless to the enemy." Apropos of nothing in particular, the Army has republished a 1971 technical manual on "Procedures for the Destruction of Aircraft and Associated Equipment to Prevent Enemy Use." A copy is available here: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/tm750-244-1-5.pdf TIME OUT, REALLY This is really, almost certainly the last issue of Secrecy News for 2005. Happy holidays. _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood.nul Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html Secrecy News has an RSS feed at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.rss SUPPORT Secrecy News with a donation here: http://www.fas.org/static/contrib_sec.jsp _______________________ Steven Aftergood
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Argentina A Destination For UFOs From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:25:50 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:20:49 -0500 Subject: Argentina A Destination For UFOs INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology December 20, 2005 ----- Source: INFOBAE.com http://www.infobae.com/notas/nota.php?Idx=3D229062&IdxSeccion=3D100 Date: December 20, 2005 ARGENTINA: A DESTINATION FOR UFOS *This isn't the first time and it will doubtless be the last. According to researchers the city of La Banda in Santiago is a magnet for aliens. Do they exist or not? That's a tough one to answer.* The association for the Study and Reseach of UFO Astronomy La Banda, established by renowned characters such as Andres Francisco Miotti, David Waisman, Luis Ducournau and Carlos Barrag=E1n, has operated in the city since the mid- 1980s according to a local newspaper. Its mission is to study and analyze all matters related to the appearance of UFOs. Delving into this subject has brought about some original conclusions. Andres Miotti, a former judge, spoke to the "El Liberal" newspaper with regard to some of the cases the group has analyzed in connection to possible sightings of alien spacecraft. One of the cases mentioned was the one that occurred in Paraje Maravilla where, according to Miotti, a smallholder had a close encounter of the 3rd kind: "The tractor driver saw a UFO. The tractor was rendered idle and it recovered power after the UFO had taken off." Another event occurred in 2001. "The case that surprised me the most was when a UFO was abducting a cow in a field near La Banda," remarked Miotti. "While he did not acknowledge it at first, the witness to the event finally admitted that at two o' clock in the morning he got up to go to the lavatory. It was then that he saw a strange craft hovering over the field, busily trying to abduct a cow," he added. The Association continues to function, although with less members than before. Miotti remarked that until not long ago, he received eyewitness testimony from people who had witnessed supernatural events from various departments in the region. -----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Bright Flash And Bang From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:43:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:22:08 -0500 Subject: Bright Flash And Bang Anyone have fireball or meteor data for the evening of December 19th aprox. 9:15 ADT [ 1:15 Zulu or UTC if you like.] Location: Halifax, NS area. Residencey of Lower Sackville [outskirts NW quadrant of Halifax] were outside in the streets curious about and reported a bright flash and bang. Exploding transformer and shorted out primary electrical transmission wires ruled out.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:10:08 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:23:37 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Clark >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:01:01 +0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:52:12 EST >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' <snip> >>If "abductions" were really caused by sleep paralysis and >>hygnogogic and hypnopompic hallucinations _then_ (class if-then >>argumentation in science) we should see abductions as extremely >>brief incidents usually at onset of sleep or waking _in bed_, >>never hours-long visions occurring in all sorts of physical >>situations including driving cars. We should see a variety of >>visions not just "aliens" and we should not see "abductions" >>because no one ever reports being _grabbed_ by any of the sleep >>state hallucinations. >>And if UFO abductions are really sleep-state visions then why >>only UFO's or aliens? Why aren't people having sleep-state >>hallucinations of being "abducted" by terrorists or bank >>robbers? Why aren't people seeing Osama bin-Laden in their >>sleep-state dreams, or the Devil? >>In fact I doubt one can find _any_ sleep-state visions among >>actual UFO abduction cases, by which I do not mean using >>adulterated "abduction" databases where actual UFO abductions >>have been mixed in with non-UFO or questionable sleep-state >>delusions. These are all excellent points. Of course, if sleep-paralysis hallucinations about criminal kidnappers were a real phenomenon, it would be extensively documented not only in the scientific literature but in police archives and criminology journals. Because people spend more time fearing criminals than aliens, we would expect to find vast numbers of crime-generated delusions. We don't. >Hypnogogic, hypnopompic and sleep paralysis imagery is probably >responsible for many a ghost story, including our old friend the >phantom hitchhiker. In past times people _saw_ all sorts of >monsters and bogies, not to say their neighbours who they then >accused of being witches.... >Of course only that subset of these experiences which fit the >ufo/alien abduction profile get reported in a ufo context, and >only the smallest fraction will get reported at all. Why did X think he saw aliens/anomalous entities? Because he suffered from sleep-paralysis hallucination. How do we know he was sleeping? Because he thought he saw aliens/anomalous entities.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Adams From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:35:24 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:25:10 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Adams >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:28:55 -0500 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:52:12 EST >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' <snip> >How does one 'test' a completely subjective experience, shared >wth no one else? Please note, I am not a proponent of some kind >of quasi-naturalism, in which I maintain that subjective >experiences are only inwardly directed mental projections >without objective references. Nor did I mean to cast doubt on >the 'abuction' phenomenon. >I was merely asking for information (please see above). >Pavel I've interviewed two abductees and even read about others (ie- Hopkins, Turner) who tell a story about the abductee while consciously doing something (walking/driving) or going somewhere outside encountering a sudden fog or noticed a buzzing/tone in their head even during the daytime.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 20 Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:09:32 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:26:24 -0500 Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - White >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:54:49 -0600 >Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies <snip> >>That applies in situations where the financial and/or political >>stakes are not particularly high. >My impression is that a love of sinister interpretation and >conspiracy theory may be wired into some people's brains. That's >just the way they see the world, and that's why it is impossible >to argue or reason with them. "Love of sinister interpretation?" Glad you're not talking about me. I love that not. _Very much not. >To somebody whose understanding of the world is based in the >notion that logic and evidence should drive our understanding of >events, the conspiratorial mindset remains in some sense >impenetrable. The conspiracist, who sees dark deeds where none >exist in any discernible logic and evidence (e.g., John Mack's >tragic death by drunk driver), lives in a fundamentally >different mental universe from the rest of us. When one _experiences_ things that non-experiencers regard as
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Beagle 2 Probe 'Found' On Mars From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:27:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:27:24 -0500 Subject: Beagle 2 Probe 'Found' On Mars Source: CNN News http://tinyurl.com/a8at4 Tuesday, December 20, 2005 Beagle 2 Probe 'Found' On Mars LONDON, England (Reuters) -- The British scientist behind the lost 2003 Beagle 2 mission to Mars said on Tuesday the craft may have been spotted in NASA pictures which indicate the project very nearly worked. Beagle 2, named after the ship Charles Darwin sailed in when he formulated his theory of evolution, was built by British scientists for about 50 million pounds ($90 million) and taken to Mars aboard the European Space Agency's orbiter Mars Express. It was due to land in a crater on the red planet in a bouncing ball of airbags and begin looking for signs of life on Christmas Day, 2003. But it lost contact with Earth once it separated from the mother ship in mid-December. Colin Pillinger told the BBC he thought the craft may have hit the ground too hard, damaging its instruments, because the atmosphere was thinner than usual due to dust storms. Pictures taken by NASA's orbiting Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft may contain clues about Beagle's final seconds. "There is a lot of disturbance in this crater, particularly a big patch on the north crater wall which we think is the primary impact site," Pillinger said. "There are then other features around the crater consistent with the airbags bouncing around and finally falling down into the middle. Then, when you cut the lace, the airbags fall apart giving three very symmetrical triangles." Four roughly circular features to the right of the 'airbag' markings could be Beagle's unfolded solar panels, he said. Pillinger said the findings, if correct, showed the project came very close to working but had failed because it had landed in a "sideways motion" instead of a "horizontal mode." "That may have damaged the lander so the lid didn't open properly and didn't release the antennae, so we couldn't get the signal," he said. The European Space Agency and British government, which jointly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Stalin Ordered Human/Ape Bred Super Soldiers From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:29:57 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:31:15 -0500 Subject: Stalin Ordered Human/Ape Bred Super Soldiers This one caught me by surprise. It reminds me of some of the wild stories from the legendary mind of Marvel Comics' guru Stan Lee. http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2434192005 According to the story, Stalin ordered a scientist to engage in creating half human-half ape super soldiers. The experiments were conducted to failure. I know this opens the door for a plethora of wisecracks, yet if such an order was carried out what other bizarre experiments were entertained and executed? Here it is almost 80 years later and we're being reminded of how close to Mary Shelley's Frankenstein the world had become. This is one experiment. As the files in Russia open up as well as the espionage files on them, I'm wondering how many clashes with official and unofficial proclamations on UFOs/Saucers are there awaiting the light of day.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Rendlesham Forest Anniversary Skywatch From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:31:24 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:36:47 -0500 Subject: Rendlesham Forest Anniversary Skywatch I've previously been quoted in the media and on this List as promoting various events associated with the 25th anniversary of the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident. The most notable is the one being organised by the Forestry Commission, at 2pm on 26 December, at the Rendlesham Forest Centre: http://tinyurl.com/8jzze I understand that a commemorative vigil/skywatch is being organised for 27 December. However, until and unless there's a published plan for this, I urge caution. It's likely to be extremely cold on the day, and if anyone is planning to attend, I recommend the following: Tell somebody else where you will be. Take a fully-charged mobile phone. Bring a torch/flashlight. Wear appropriate clothing. Bring a thermos flask of hot (non-alcoholic) drink and some food. This may sound overly fussy, but a ufologist became detached from his group during a skywatch last summer. He spent several hours lost in the forest. Had this occurred in sub-zero temperatures there may have been more serious consequences. To all those planning to attend - have fun but please stay safe. I actively encourage UK ufologists to cross-post this message to other Lists.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 - From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:07:11 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:33:21 -0500 Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 - >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:45:22 -0000 >Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:40:17 +0000 >>Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 >>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 17:50:09 -0000 >>>Subject: Re: British Fighter Pilots Report UFO In 1990 >>>This incident occurred seven months before I took over the >>>British Government's UFO Project >>I know it's an oldie, but let's get one thing clear yet again. >>There is not, and never has been, any such thing as "The British >>Government's UFO Project"; >Nonsense. There are hundreds of files available at the National >Archives detailing the MOD's research and investigation into the >UFO phenomenon. Go and take a look. If you don't like this work >being referred to as a "project", feel free to use your own >term. This is, to use a phrase which is often bandied about on this List, 'disingenuous'. The UFO-related files in the National Archives come from a wide range of ad-hoc sources, military and civilian, and from a number of Government departments and official bodies, as well as many members of the public. The idea that these have been researched through a "targeted research programme" (I assume you are being ironic here, but who can tell?) with a similar status to Project Blue Book or the Condon Committee is a complete misrepresentation. It has only been comparatively recently that you have been styling your work on the "UFO Desk" (another misnomer, but maybe a little more to the point) as a UFO "Project". It sounds better, I know, but I'm sure you wouldn't want to mislead our American colleagues into thinking that the major part of your
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Bermuda Triangle Mystery Still Haunts - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:32:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:38:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Bermuda Triangle Mystery Still Haunts - White >Source: The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, Wisconsin, USA >http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec05/378647.asp >Dec. 17, 2005 >Bermuda Triangle Mystery Still Haunts <snip> >Gian J. Quasar, author of "Into the Bermuda Triangle," said >aircraft have vanished as radio tower controllers watched them. UFOs are reported to do the same. Even people are reported to have simply disappeared in front of witnesses. Supports the idea
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Lewis From: SMiles Lewis <elfis.nul > Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:54:04 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:41:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Lewis UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>said: >Who is behind ufoevidence.org and why are they ripping-off >many in the field? There've been many complaints about the >site. >If any subscribers to this List have had their material >used without credit/attribution or permission, feel free >to post your experiences here..... Hi Errol, I wish I knew the answer to your question. It could be that whomever originally owned the site sold it to a web developer who is now making money off the Google AdSense ads thruought the site. Also, the site feature the following disclaimer that is now a common feature of many sites like this... "FAIR USE NOTICE: This page may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. This website distributes this material without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. We believe this constitutes a fair use of any such copyrighted material as provided for in 17 U.S.C =A7 107. NOTE TO AUTHORS: If you are the author of this article and do not wish to have this article printed on the UFO Evidence
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:50:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:44:10 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:01:01 +0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >Brad What makes you think that people only fall asleep when >lying in bed. People can fall asleep in almost any circumstances >if they are tired enough, including when driving a car. >Hypnogogic, hypnopompic and sleep paralysis imagery is >probably responsible for many a ghost story, including our old >friend the phantom hitchhiker. In past times people _saw_ all >sorts of monsters and bogies, not to say their neighbours who >they then accused of being witches. >Sleep paralysis episodes have certainly generated sexual abuse >memories on occasion, and very probably reports of burglars etc. >John Mack actually mentions such a case in his book on the >nightmare. >Of course only that subset of these experiences which fit the >ufo/alien abduction profile get reported in a ufo context, and >only the smallest fraction will get reported at all. Peter, I believe that one can lean too far toward the skeptical side of the spectrum. The Church's experience of visions, locutions etc. goes back two thousand years, and is perhaps instructive here. In modern times, at least, say, for the past four or five hundred years, extremely few of these experiences are accepted as genuine. Of course, proofs are ultimately placed within the context of a special value system, but experiences themselves are rigorously tested to exclude subjective and self-interested factors. This
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 00:01:22 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:48:53 -0500 Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - Dickenson >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:09:32 -0500 >Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies >When one _experiences_ things that non-experiencers regard as >"mere" conspiracy theories, one is still in the same mental >universe, just better informed about it. Right Eleanor, The evidence shows that 'establishments' do their utmost to prevent the average person becoming aware of various skullduggery carried out by the establishment itself. But evidence also shows that when a citizen _does_ express any awareness, then the establishment will oppress that citizen illegally and oppressively. And there's always 'accidents'. Watch this space Cheers Ray D Happy Solstice - that's _real_ traditional reason for late
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction? - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 00:16:53 -0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:50:31 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction? - Reason >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:01:01 +0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' Hello Peter >Hypnogogic, hypnopompic and sleep paralysis imagery is probably >responsible for many a ghost story, including our old friend the >phantom hitchhiker. In past times people _saw_ all sorts of >monsters and bogies, not to say their neighbours who they then >accused of being witches. Well, I for one have been pretty skeptical of witchcraze claims ever since I read Linnda Caporael's paper debunking the mythology surounding the Salem witch trials, but I guess you may have a point here. >Sleep paralysis episodes have certainly generated sexual abuse >memories on occasion <snip> "Certainly" is a very strong claim - is there compelling evidence to back this up? I just did a Medline search on this topic, and all I could find was a correspondence on the McNally/Clancy paper cited here previously: "Sleep paralysis in adults reporting repressed, recovered, or continuous memories of childhood sexual abuse. McNally RJ, Clancy SA. J Anxiety Disord. 2005;19(5):595-602." This study tested the hypothesis that sleep paralysis generates memories of sexual abuse, and found the hypothesis was not supported. >Of course only that subset of these experiences which fit the >ufo/alien abduction profile get reported in a ufo context, and >only the smallest fraction will get reported at all. This should provide a great opportunity for testing the sleep paralysis hypothesis. If the hypothesis is true, there should be a vast reservoir of unreported cases which don't reflect the UFO template but do reflect the distribution of narrative and imagery in the culture in which they occur, eg we should find accounts of abductions by terrorists or cybermen as well as gray aliens. In which case it should be possible to find them, which would constitute an unambiguous testable prediction. This is great. We can stop arguing and get on to some serious
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:48:56 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:52:06 -0500 Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies - Clark >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:09:32 -0500 >Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:54:49 -0600 >>Subject: Re: John Mack & Conspiracies >>To somebody whose understanding of the world is based in the >>notion that logic and evidence should drive our understanding of >>events, the conspiratorial mindset remains in some sense >>impenetrable. The conspiracist, who sees dark deeds where none >>exist in any discernible logic and evidence (e.g., John Mack's >>tragic death by drunk driver), lives in a fundamentally >>different mental universe from the rest of us. >When one _experiences_ things that non-experiencers regard as >"mere" conspiracy theories, one is still in the same mental >universe, just better informed about it. I wasn't aiming my remarks at you, but judging from your defensive response, I guess I must have hit a target while not even aiming at one. It is not my experience, or the experience of scholars who've studied the phenomenon, that conspiracy theorists are "better informed." Quite the opposite, in fact. Reality is complicated and requires focused attention; conspiracy theory is just lazy. In the present instance, anybody who declares that John Mack's death was anything but the sort of accident that happens every day on this earth had better produce actual evidence. One would
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Is Santa Claus Real Or Is It A Conspiracy? From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:00:57 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 06:56:33 -0500 Subject: Is Santa Claus Real Or Is It A Conspiracy? Since this List comprises decades if not centuries of sky watching experience as well as dedicated analysis of strange goings on, it's best to ask the Ufologists if that jolly old elf is real or a conspiracy? I suspect the skeptibunkers will deny the existence of the bearded one and some psychiatrist looking for a government contract will blame it all on underdeveloped optical structures misinterpreting our mother's faces. If you really want a treat, something that will lift your spirits, hit the web and look up the real story on that mysterious legend who dishes out gifts and has the coolest form of transportation north of equator. It's the story of a real super hero.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Fleming From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:53:21 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:01:51 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Fleming >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:07:59 -0500 >Subject: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >Source: American Chronicle - Beverly Hills, California, USA >http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=3D4246 >December 16, 2005 >'Project Serpo' Mission To Visitors' Home Planet Described In Detail >By Steve Hammons <snip> >Maybe we'll find out if Anonymous and his friends are right -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 NASA's Stardust Probe Due Home With Goodies From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 00:35:01 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:03:16 -0500 Subject: NASA's Stardust Probe Due Home With Goodies http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635169942,00.html Unlike the Genesis probe, it's sister, Stardust is supposed to deploy a parachute to land in Utah with it's collection of interstellar dust particles. Let's hope this goes well and NASA's pros can glean data worthy of the challenge it took to launch this project.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 03:04:08 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:18:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Hatch >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Cc: info.nul >Subject: UFO UpDate: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? >Who is behind ufoevidence.org and why are they ripping-off >many in the field? There've been many complaints about the site. >The work of UFO authors, researchers, witnesses and websites >is being posted to the ufoevidence.org site without credit >or attribution to those who created the material. >Back in January of this year WhoIs listed the following >info on ufoevidence.org: >Tech Name:DEVESH KUMAR >Tech Street1: 6104 NE 60th >Tech City:Seattle >Tech State/Province:WA >Tech Postal Code:98115 >Tech Country:US >Tech Phone:+1.4252521410 >Tech Email:devesh.nul >Name Server:NS1.WORLDREV.ORG >It seems many complaints were sent to ufoevidence.org - they >were ignored. The original host also ignored e-mails. <snip> Errol: Yes, many have complained and gotten nowhere. In my particular case, I finally got proper credits and honest links back to my pages. Your mileage will definitely vary. Rajesh aka/or Devesh KUMAR responded once to a question I put on this list, so I presume he can read this. Kumar has TWO sites up. One of them, (I believe the earlier one) is etcontact.net, and of course the ball-busting ufoevidence.org Virtually anyone who has written anything substantial about UFOs has had their materials copied: The entire Magonia Catalog by Vallee, in sections. Whole chapters from Ufology, the book by James M McCampbell Any number of articles by: Jerome Clark Richard Hall Bruce Maccabee Michael Lindemann Dr. John Mack Stanton Friedman Dr. Don Johnson Keith Basterfield Nick Pope Diane Harrison Greg Sandow... you name 'em. Numerous articles were copied whole from this very List, UFO UpDates. I don't have time to advise everyone individually. If you have any reason to suspect you were 'scraped' in this manner, even for posting here, I advise you to do the following: Call up Google Advanced Search (Advanced is important) http://www.google.com/advanced_search Nine boxes down, under Domain, leave the dropdown box with its default [only]. To the right of that, type in www.ufoevidence.org No http:, no quotes. Second box from the top (exact phrase) enter your own name. Bingo! Some items might be honest links to your pages. Check them all out. Try typing in CUFOS instead of your name. Google returned 224 listings when I tried it. Now repeat the search above, but put www.etcontact.net into the domain box instead of ufoevidence.org. When you have seen enough, erase all the fields and just type the single word ufo in the top box. Google will return something like 9,660,000 pages. There is ufoevidence.org in the #3 slot, ahead of CUFOS, ahead of MUFON and many many other sites which did the original work and research. On one page alone, selected at random, I found eight adverts, via media.fastclick.net and ads.pointroll.com. These are the pop-up, banner ads, and iframe kings. If you have pop-up and ad blocking like I do, its easily missed. I looked at the page source code. Then there are the Amazon and Barnes & Noble book ads. The motives here are quite clear. >As of a WhoIs this morning the owner/registrant is >now hiding behind a registration proxy: >Registrant ID:GODA-07031045 >Registrant Name:Registration Private >Registrant Organization:Domains by Proxy, Inc. An anonymous proxy now. Who would have guessed? In defense of Kumar, he does now appear to give credits - names/sources - for most of the materials, and sometimes even links to the proper pages. Watch those links carefully. Roll your mouse over them. If you see something like: resourceredirect.asp?id=371 its a phony link. Oh sure you will get to your page, but Google won't. They cannot follow such a re-direct to your page, so they won't credit your site for your original material. That's the whole idea. Are you getting the flavor of this? The big sin here is wholesale reproduction of copyrighted materials without permission, deriving advertising profits in the process, while the original sources go quietly broke and virtually unnoticed. His 'fair use notice' is a study in double talk, almost
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:24:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:24:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? -----
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Stalin Ordered Human/Ape Bred Super Soldiers - From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:32:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:44:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Stalin Ordered Human/Ape Bred Super Soldiers - >From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:29:57 EST >Subject: Stalin Ordered Human/Ape Bred Super Soldiers <snip> >According to the story, Stalin ordered a scientist to engage in creating half human-half ape super soldiers. The experiments were conducted to failure. I know this opens the door for a plethora of wisecracks, yet if such an order was carried out what other bizarre experiments were entertained and executed? >Here it is almost 80 years later and we're being reminded of how close to Mary Shelley's Frankenstein the world had become. >This is one experiment. As the files in Russia open up as well as the espionage files on them, I'm wondering how many clashes with official and unofficial proclamations on UFOs/Saucers are there awaiting the light of day. Greg, As someone who knows a bit about the country, its history and the people, this strikes me as plain and simple BS, from the keyboard of a satirist. If Stalin were to order a geneticist to do anything of the sort, it would have been to create magnificent but brainless Communists, fully human but without the ability to disobey Stalin. BTW, if anyone thinks files in Russia will open in wholesale
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:35:34 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:58:23 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Sparks >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:28:55 -0500 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:52:12 EST >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 11:03:41 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>Has anyone reading this ever had a visualization of a brief >>>bit of an abduction experience while awake, but just after >>>waking at night? Something in the nature of an extremely vivid >>>flashback. >>>It might very well be a hypnopompic artifact, but who's to say? >>Test the hypothesis! Don't just indulge in useless "what if's." <snip> >How does one 'test' a completely subjective experience, shared >wth no one else? Please note, I am not a proponent of some kind >of quasi-naturalism, in which I maintain that subjective >experiences are only inwardly directed mental projections >without objective references. Nor did I mean to cast doubt on >the 'abuction' phenomenon. >I was merely asking for information (please see above). The rest of my post was deleted and answered your question in advance. I gave several examples of how to test the hypothesis of sleep paralysis imagery (see below) by comparing time durations, locational situation, sleeping vs. waking state, physical "grabbings" or lack of same reported, content of imagery and lack of other traumatic "abductor" personalities/themes (such as Devil, Osama bin Laden, et al.), etc.: >>If "abductions" were really caused by sleep paralysis and >>hygnogogic and hypnopompic hallucinations _then_ (class if-then >>argumentation in science) we should see abductions as extremely >>brief incidents usually at onset of sleep or waking _in bed_, >>never hours-long visions occurring in all sorts of physical >>situations including driving cars. We should see a variety of >>visions not just "aliens" and we should not see "abductions" >>because no one ever reports being _grabbed_ by any of the sleep >>state hallucinations. >>And if UFO abductions are really sleep-state visions then why >>only UFOs or aliens? Why aren't people having sleep-state >>hallucinations of being "abducted" by terrorists or bank >>robbers? Why aren't people seeing Osama bin-Laden in their >>sleep-state dreams, or the Devil?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 04:48:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:04:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Hatch >From: SMiles Lewis <elfis.nul > >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:54:04 -0000 >Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? >UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>said: >>Who is behind ufoevidence.org and why are they ripping-off >>many in the field? There've been many complaints about the site. >>If any subscribers to this List have had their material >>used without credit/attribution or permission, feel free >>to post your experiences here..... >Hi Errol, >I wish I knew the answer to your question. It could be that >whomever originally owned the site sold it to a web developer >who is now making money off the Google AdSense ads thruought the >site. >Also, the site feature the following disclaimer that is now a >common feature of many sites like this... >"FAIR USE NOTICE: This page may contain copyrighted material >the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the >copyright owner. This website distributes this material without >profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving >the included information for research and educational purposes. >We believe this constitutes a fair use of any such copyrighted >material as provided for in 17 U.S.C =A7 107. >NOTE TO AUTHORS: If you are the author of this article and do >not wish to have this article printed on the UFO Evidence >website, please write to us at info.nul, and we will >remove the article." >SMiles in Texas Smiles: Please do not let that weasel-worded Fair Use Notice fool you or anyone. It is designed to blow-off the innocent with phony legalese. Line by line: "This page may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner." Those pages are virtually jammed with copyright materials. There is no "may". That's like saying "this sea water may contain salt." "This website distributes this material without profit..." A total lie. I found 8 popups, banner ads etc. in the Source Code of the first page I bothered to check. Then there are commissions from book sales. "...to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes." Nonsense. Its commercial and the ads prove it. "We believe this constitutes a fair use of any such copyrighted material as provided for in 17 U.S.C - 107." I strongly doubt that _any_ body of law permits copyright infringement, without permission, on a scale anything like this. Citing some obscure legal code (if there even exists one by that number) is only to befuddle people. Google up that section number and all you are likely to find are
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Extraterrestrial Life What Does the Bible Say? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:42:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:42:25 -0500 Subject: Extraterrestrial Life What Does the Bible Say? Source: Good News Magazine - Cincinnati, Ohio, USA http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn14/extralife.htm January/February 1998 Extraterrestrial Life What Does the Bible Say? Humans have long searched the heavens for signs of other life. Is there life out there? Is there a way to know for sure? by David Treybig Humanity is fascinated with the concept of extraterrestrial life. Many wonder if intelligent life residing somewhere else in the universe is busy watching us develop. We want to know who we are and if there is anything (or anyone) else out there that resembles us. Interest in contact with aliens is not just the grist of science fiction but a real - life passion for many devoted to the search for other life forms. When a job transfer put me near Roswell, New Mexico, I soon learned of July 4, 1947, the date of an alleged crash landing of an alien ship a few miles northwest of the city. The next day's newspaper reported that the commander of the nearby U.S. Army base confirmed that a "flying saucer" had indeed crashed into the desert the previous evening. Rumors circulated that on board the craft had been aliens who had died in the crash. On the second day, however, the commander said the crash was simply a downed weather balloon. Another report, released in June 1997, just days before the 50th - anniversary extravaganza staged by local residents, said that what some thought had been dead aliens were only test dummies. The search for life Of course, man's curiosity has not been limited to stories about flying saucers. Reporting on a radio - telescope project, an article in U.S. News & World Report said recently: "In 1960, Project Ozma in West Virginia began its quest to detect alien radio signals. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration committed $100 million to a formal mission - the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence - but so far, no word has come from out there" (Victoria Pope, "Is There Life on Other Planets?," August 25, 1997). The article also stated: "Space exploration hasn't turned up life, either. When NASA's Viking landers examined Mars two decades ago, they found a dry, sterile environment. Venus was a blazing inferno. It was only the images from the Galileo spacecraft that raised a slight hope of finding suitable conditions for life elsewhere in our solar system: Jupiter's moon Europa appeared to have an ocean of liquid water covered with pack ice." More recently NASA's Pathfinder has sent back pictures of Mars that show a rocky desert terrain devoid of any surface vegetation or other signs of life. Now attention is turning to what might be below the surface of the red planet. Scientists wonder whether they should be looking for types of microbes similar to ones on earth that can live in extreme conditions such as searing heat, salt and high pressure. An alleged martian meteorite recovered in Antarctica containing microscopic wormlike structures generates more questions. Are these structures fossils of earthlike bacteria? Are they just the result of mineral or geologic processes that didn't involve life - forms? Is it possible that life like ours once began on Mars, only to die out later? Although new possibilities and questions continue to arise as quickly as old ones are rejected, one simple fact remains: We have no scientific evidence of intelligent life beyond this planet. Comparing science and the Bible Missing in this discussion is information that has been disallowed by the scientific method, which discards any information that cannot be verified or disproved by observation or experimentation. That missing information is found in the Bible. The scientific approach generally leads to rejection of biblical facts and statements about other intelligent life, because science cannot prove those statements. This isn't necessarily the fault of science; it simply is the way the scientific discipline was established and functions. Of course, we can rely on something science has proven. But, like most things, even science has its limitations. When the Bible reveals something of a spiritual nature, such information is often beyond the level of science. Science is often incapable of proving or disproving what is stated. The Bible describes this kind of information as revealed knowledge, or knowledge we cannot discover through human effort alone. An interesting example of this is found in Matthew 16. Here, Jesus asked His disciples what people were saying about Him. The answers varied. Then He asked: "'But who do you say that I am?' Simon Peter answered and said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' Jesus answered and said to him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar - Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven'" (Matthew 16:15 - 17). Understanding Jesus Christ's identity as the Son of God is not scientific; it is not in the flesh - and - blood realm, proven through a microscope or telescope. This kind of knowledge is beyond science. In His conversation with Peter, Jesus affirmed that only God reveals this kind of knowledge. This revealed knowledge is the missing component in man's desire to understand his place in the universe. Without it, man will forever be left with a string of unanswered questions and endless possibilities. Of course, not all who claim revealed knowledge actually have it. Occasionally we learn of cultlike small groups that claim to have secret knowledge of the unknown. When tragedy results, like the recent mass suicide of the Heaven's Gate group near San Diego, many are inclined to dismiss all revealed knowledge. The difference between these groups and the Bible is the source of their information. Even large, long - established religious assemblies have shown their inadequacies in interpreting and explaining the Bible and attempting to represent God's revealed will. All groups have fallible human leaders, while the Bible contains the very words of God Himself. As 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us, "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God." Its authority is unassailable, whereas speculation of individuals remains just that - speculation. The Bible has answers So what can we learn from Scripture about extraterrestrial life and man's place in the universe? The Bible reveals that there is extraterrestrial intelligent life, but not as many suppose. The Bible does not speak of aliens who live on other planets, but it does speak of a Spirit Being who "inhabits eternity" (Isaiah 57:15). The Bible is silent about extraterrestrial life - forms as popularized in science fiction and the entertainment media, yet it is by no means silent about real extraterrestrial life in all its great abundance. The beings spoken of in the Bible are real. They have appeared and spoken directly to humans (Genesis 3:9 - 10; 4:9; 16:9). The Bible records the existence of many millions of angelic beings (Revelation 5:11) who are "ministering spirits" to mankind in fulfillment of God's purpose (Hebrews 1:13 - 14). The first verse of the Bible introduces us to the ultimate Spirit Being: God. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1). It presents two pieces of revealed knowledge beyond the realm of science. The first is the existence of God. The second is found in the word created, a translation of the Hebrew word bara. "This verb is of profound theological significance, since it has only God as its subject. Only God can 'create' in the sense implied by bara. The verb expresses creation out of nothing, an idea seen clearly in passages having to do with creation on a cosmic scale..." (Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville, "Create"). The concept of bringing the universe into existence from nothing is completely outside the parameters of scientific observation and experimentation. Science tells us a great deal about matter that already exists. It tells us that matter can change shapes and form. But science cannot account for the appearance of something that previously did not exist. It can only theorize about possible explanations for how everything we see around us came to exist from nothing. We see this even in the various theories for the evolution of life into the myriad forms we see today - all start by assuming that matter already existed. The Bible vs. evolution In the face of this fundamental deficiency, some have tried to blend revealed knowledge with scientific theory in what is known as theistic evolution, or a belief that God made matter and then allowed evolution to shape life. In a monumental announcement the Roman Catholic Church recently agreed that life as we know it may have come about in this way. Theistic evolution, however, is not the simple bridge between the spiritual and the physical worlds many would like. There are simply too many conflicts. The Bible, for example, reveals that God formed Adam from the dust of the ground (Genesis 2:7), not by evolutionary happenstance. Scientific limitations aside, the apostle Paul said, "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse" (Romans 1:20, New International Version). Science acknowledges that we live on planet Earth, but in rejecting revealed knowledge it can provide no absolutes about how our world came to be. In contrast, Paul said this beautiful planet, with its many sophisticated, interwoven relationships among its intricate array of life - forms, is testimony to God's existence. The Bible further says, "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalm 14:1; 53:1). Why would anyone reject revealed knowledge simply because it did not meet humanly imposed limitations? Paul, speaking of man's moral decline, explains: "For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:21 - 22, NIV). Mankind desperately needs the revealed knowledge that only the Bible can provide. Through the pages of this divinely inspired book, we learn not only about extraterrestrial intelligent life (God and the angelic realm), but how this planet and we humans came to be - and what God has in store as our ultimate destiny. A scientist's last words The late Carl Sagan was respected worldwide as one of this century's greatest scientists. His many credentials included his tenure as the David Duncan professor of astronomy and space sciences and director of the Laboratory for Planetary Studies at Cornell University. He also wrote 30 books and served as an adviser to NASA on the Mariner, Voyager and Viking unmanned space missions. Before dying from a rare disease in December 1996, he penned these words: "Six times now have I looked Death in the face. And six times Death has averted his gaze and let me pass. Eventually, of course, Death will claim me - as he does each of us. It's only a question of when. And how. "I've learned much from our confrontations - especially about the beauty and sweet poignancy of life, about the preciousness of friends and family, and about the transforming power of love... "I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking" (Billions & Billions, Random House, New York, 1997, p. 214). Although he excelled in scientific endeavors as few others have ever done, Sagan's otherwise expansive outlook was in many ways shackled by the scientific method to which he had devoted his life. This remarkable man had not come to trust in the revealed knowledge of the Bible - promises that human beings can eventually "be like" their Creator (1 John 3:1 - 2) and take on His "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:2 - 4). From the outset the Bible describes man as created "in the image of God" (Genesis 1:27). The profound ramifications of this concept are discussed and described throughout the rest of the Bible. Whether human beings understand these things or not, the Bible promises that "the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken" (Isaiah 40:5, NIV). In due time this will come to pass. The Good News is dedicated to sharing this revealed knowledge found within the Bible. The Bible is silent about extraterrestrial life, as it is popularly conceived, in other parts of the universe. At the same time, most of the world is markedly ignorant of the extraterrestrial life to which the pages of the Bible so abundantly testify. Mankind is also largely ignorant of the incredible future potential God has in store for human beings "out there." There is indeed life out there - and your destiny is to become part of it if you so choose! GN
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 There Is No Fermi Paradox From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:53:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:53:51 -0500 Subject: There Is No Fermi Paradox Source: The Website of Robert A. Freitas, Jr. Pilot Hill, California, USA =0Ahttp://tinyurl.com/c7zcc There Is No Fermi Paradox Robert A. Freitas, Jr. Xenology Research Institute 8256 Scottsdale Drive Sacramento, California 95828 Icarus 62:518-520 (1985) Received June 25, 1984: revised March 18, 1985 The "Fermi Paradox," an argument that extraterrestrial intelligence cannot exist because it has not yet been observed, is a logical fallacy. This "paradox" is a formally invalid inference. both because it requires modal operators lying outside the first-order propositional calculus and because it is unsupported by the observational record. =A9 1985 Academic Press. Inc. Note: This web version is derived from an earlier draft of the paper and may possibly differ in some substantial aspects from the final published paper. Renewed activity in the field of Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) has stimulated interest in an old argument purporting to show that ETI cannot exist. Known as the "Where Are They?" question or the "Fermi Paradox," this sophism posits that in time an intelligent extraterrestrial species must achieve high technology, exploring and colonizing first its planetary system, and later the Galaxy, as humanity has explored and colonized the Earth. These beings should have been able to travel to Earth, but we see no evidence of such visitations, hence ETI cannot exist. Proponents of the "paradox" (e.g., Hart, 1975; Tipler, 1980; Hart and Zuckerman, 1982) admit that it is incomplete in the loose form outlined above. but argue that alternatives purporting to explain the paradox (e.g., Ball, 1973; Sagan and Newman, 1983) are invalid or lead to contradiction or impossibility. This position has been weakly challenged (Cox, 1976; Schwartzman, 1977; Papagiannis, 1980; Stephenson, 1982), but the debate continues. LOGICAL FALLACY It is surprising that the formal invalidity of the paradox, which cannot be cast in acceptable syllogistic form, has gone unmentioned in previous discussions. For instance, where A =3D ETI exist, B =3D ETI are here. and C =3D ETI are observed, the inference S1: If A, then probably B If B, then probably C Not-C Therefore not-B Therefore not-A is both syntactically and semantically invalid because "probably" (also "ought to be," "should be," "might be," "believe to be," "hoped to be," "likely ... .. reasonably") is a modal truth functional operator outside the scope of the first- order propositional calculus. Even recast in the syntactically correct form S2: If A. then (probably B) If (probably B), then (probably C) Not-(probably C) Therefore not-(probably B) Therefore not-A, the inference is semantically valid if and only if it is possible to assert that not-(probably C) is true. But the truth value of not(probably C) is indeterminate, so S2 is, classically, semantically invalid. The embedded uncertainty cannot be removed from the primary and secondary subjunctives because neither A =AE B nor B=AEC is certainly true; not-C cannot imply not-A because C is a subset of B and B is a subset of A (Fig. 1). Hence the Fermi Paradox line of reasoning has no formal probative value whatsoever. Euler Diagram of the Fermi Paradox [Fig. 1. Euler Diagram of the "Fermi Paradox." ] The calculus of probability or probable inference (Keynes, 1921; Carnap, 1962), conditional probabilistic logic (Nute, 1980), statistical inference, and like methods cannot remedy the paradox. There are no statistical data on ETI, so probability assignments for A, B, and C are necessarily a priori and cannot serve as the basis of truth tests in formal assertoric logic. This problem persists even in fuzzy logic systems (Zadeh, 1983) where A, B, and C are conditional, qualified propositions or fuzzy predicates conjoined by a fuzzy probability or quantifier. Probably can also be treated using modal first-order predicate calculi (Snyder, 1971; Bowen, 1979). Modal epistemic logics dealing in a limited way with what is known and with what is believed, credible, plausible (Rescher, 1964, 1974), or probable have been studied but show only weak transitivity because something being possible or probable is not incompatible with its not being so. To insist otherwise is to claim that whatever is probably so necessarily is so and that what is not so can have no probability of being so, demonstrably erroneous positions (White, 1975). EVIDENTIARY FLAW An additional fundamental flaw in the paradox (Freitas, 1983a; Hibbs, 1993) is the extraordinary weakness of the evidence for not C. Not C is not certainly true on the basis of available evidence. Neither can C presently be shown to be true, but the non-truth of not C is sufficient to destroy any inference. For example, an appropriate observational search limit for extraterrestrial messenger probe size is 1-10 m (Freitas, 1983b). A trans-Plutonian spherical solar system boundary encloses 260,000 AU3 and 1011 km2 of planetary and asteroidal surface area. The continuous visible sky search limit is perhaps +14 mag by amateurs, plus intermittent coverage to +21 mag with the Palomar Schmidt and +24 mag for the best ground-based telescopes. Thus current surveys could not have detected even a 1- to 10-m probe more than 0.01-1 AU from Earth, so heliocentric orbital space is at least 99.999% unexplored for 1- to 10-m artifacts. The space telescope cannot materially improve this situation because of narrow field and a tight schedule. IRAS data establish new IR search limits about as good as in the visible; microwave limits remain far poorer. Less than 10% of the Earth's surface, 1% of the Moon, 0.1% of Mars, and 10-7% of Venus (total 5 x 107 km2) has been surveyed to 1- to 10-m visible resolution. This leaves 99.96% of Solar System surface area (1.3 x 1011 km2) unexamined for likely artifacts. Interplanetary spacecraft and ground-based telescopes have photographed portions of some planets and asteroids down to 20-km resolution, plus a few tracts on some outer planet moons to 1-10 km. Objects buried or submerged are undetectable with current instrumentation. Large artificial habitats in the asteroid belt (Papagiannis, 1978) would appear visually indistinguishable from natural objects, especially since the belt population itself is poorly cataloged. The assertion that a resident artifact would alert us to its presence is an unwarranted, unsupportable, and untenable assumption. There have been few serious searches (Freitas and Valdes, 1980; Valdes and Freitas, 1983) even for the most likely classes of oberservable artifacts, and none for less-likely classes. An active Search for Extraterrestrial Artifacts (SETA) program (Freitas, 1983a,b) would help fill this enormous and critical gap in the observational record. REFERENCES Ball, J. A. (1973). The zoo hypothesis. Icarus 19:347-349. Bowen, K. A. (1979). Model Theory for Modal Logic: Kripke Models for Modal Predicate Calculi. Reidel, Dordrecht. Carnap, R. (1962). Logical Foundations of Probability. Univ. of Chicago Press, Chicago. Cox. L. J. (1976). An explanation for the absence of extraterrestrials on Earth. Q. J. R. Astron. Soc. 17:201-208. Freitas, R. A., Jr. (1983a). The search for extraterrestrial artifacts (SETA). J. Brit. Interplanet. Soc. 36:501-506. Freitas, R. A., Jr. (1983b). If they are here. where are they? Observational and search considerations. Icarus 15:337-343. Freitas, R. A., Jr., and F. Valdes (1980). A search for natural or artificial objects located at the Earth-Moon libration points. Icarus 42:442-447. Hart, M. H. (1975). An explanation for the absence of extraterrestrials on Earth. Q. J. R. Astron. Soc. 16:128-135. Hart, M. H., and B. Zuckerman (Eds.) (1982). Extraterrestrials: Where Are They? Pergamon. Elmsford, New York. Hibbs, A. R. (1983). Are we sure we are alone'? Discover 4(8):44-48. Keynes, J. M. (1921). A Treatise on Probability. Macmillan & Co., London. Nute, D. (1980). Topics in Conditional Logic. Reidel, Dordrecht. Papagiannis, M. D. (1978). Are we all alone, or could they he in the Asteroid Belt? Q. J. R. Astron. Soc. 19:277-281. Papagiannis, M. D. (Ed.) (1980). Strategies for the Search for Life in the Universe.Reidel, Boston. Rescher, N. (1964). Hypothetical Reasoning. North Holland, Amsterdam. Rescher, N. (1974). Studies in Modality. American Philosophical Quarterly Monograph Series, No. 8, Oxford. Sagan, C., and W. I. Newman (1983). The solipsist approach to extraterrestrial intelligence. Q. J. R. Astron. Soc. 24:113-121. Schwartzman, D. W. (1977). The absence of extraterrestrials on Earth and the prospects for CETI. Icarus 32:473-475. Snyder, D. P. (1971). Modal Logic and Its Applications. Van Nostrand-Reinhold, New York. Stephenson, D. G. (1982). Models of interstellar exploration. Q. J. R. Astron. Soc. 23:236-251. Tipler, F. J. (1980). Extraterrestrial intelligent beings do not exist. Q. J. R. Astron. Soc. 21:267-281. Valdes. F., and Freitas, R. A., Jr. (1983). A search for objects near the Earth-Moon Lagrangian points. Icarus 53:453-457. White, A. R. (1975). Modal Thinking. Cornell Univ. Press, Ithaca, N.Y. Zadeh, L. A. (1983). The Role of Fuzzy Logic in the Management of Uncertainty in Expert Systems. Memorandum No. UCB/ERL M83/41,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 The Faith-Based Science Of Susan Clancy From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:43:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:43:06 -0500 Subject: The Faith-Based Science Of Susan Clancy Source: The Intruders Foundation - New York, NY, USA http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/faith_based.html October, 2005 The Faith-Based Science Of Susan Clancy By Budd Hopkins The literate world is well aware that a controversy about the reality of the UFO phenomenon has raged for decades. Arrayed on one side are the enthusiasts - the casual, the serious and the bizarre - along with thousands of highly qualified pilot- witnesses, high-ranking military personnel, intensely interested scientists, and even an astronaut or two. All regard the hundreds of thousands of global sighting reports as a scientific problem of major significance, and all demand that science finally conducts a thorough, objective investigation. Centrally opposed to this position are a large number of mainstream scientists, most of whom are not only indifferent to the subject of UFOs, but also grossly uninformed about the weight of the evidence. Allied with them is a strange amalgam of groups that includes official spokesmen for the United States Air Force, Bible Belt Fundamentalist preachers such as Pat Robertson, and a small but vociferous band of self-described "rationalist" debunkers (who probably look upon their religious brethren as hopelessly superstitious). Clearly, the battle against a scientific investigation of the UFO phenomenon makes strange bedfellows. A few years ago, when those of us in the research community heard rumors of a two-tiered scientific investigation to be undertaken at Harvard University by experimental psychologists Richard McNally and Susan Clancy, we were curious but wary. Dr. McNally, we were told, intended to test a group of self- described UFO abductees for the presence of certain symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. He would employ as a model a similar test used years before, in which a group of Vietnam veterans tape recorded their traumatic war experiences and then, at a later time, were scientifically measured for signs of stress as they heard their taped accounts played back. Dr. Clancy planned to employ a word memorization test, which was supposed to reveal a subject's tendency towards false memories. Unfortunately, neither McNally nor Clancy intended to carry out any actual investigations of UFO abduction reports or examine any physical evidence. They would remain in the laboratory, limiting their project to the ostensibly scientific testing of their abductee subjects' veracity. Early in the Susan Clancy enterprise, any hopes I had for her objectivity evaporated when I learned that her purported abductee subjects were to be self-selected. She had placed ads in a number of newspapers, asking for those who believed they had had UFO abduction experiences to contact her. Little or no vetting took place, and her unscientific protocol thus opened the laboratory door to anyone who claimed to be an abductee. Her subjects were not a group whose accounts had been investigated and accepted as reliable by experienced researchers, but instead, Clancy accepted virtually anyone who came in off the street and told her they were, indeed, abductees. Some of her subjects had such tenuous, even vapid reasons for believing they were abductees - a "mysterious bruise" or a "vague feeling" - that knowledgeable researchers would have immediately shown them the door. The uncritical Dr. Clancy, however, made them part of the "abductee" group she studied! Anyone familiar with the phenomenon is aware that very few abductees will come forward to discuss their experiences publicly, or to subject themselves to "testing" of any kind by people or organizations that they do not know and trust. Doing so would be to run the very real risk of becoming targets for career-threatening ridicule. Obviously, the more highly credentialed abductees are the most hesitant to volunteer as test subjects because they have the most to lose. Neither the NASA research scientist, the NASA engineer, nor the many psychiatrists, psychologists, police officers and military professionals who, over the years, have reported their abduction experiences to me, would ever involve themselves in what might well turn out to be sensationalist and incompetently mounted tests of one kind or another. Adding to that basic flaw in her study, my second concern had to do with the fact that neither Clancy, whom I had twice met, nor McNally made any attempt to contact Dr. David Jacobs or me. They were both undoubtedly aware that the two of us have accumulated between us masses of data after decades of work with literally hundreds of abductees. We were never consulted on any issue, nor was our help in vetting test subjects called for. In retrospect, Dr. Jacobs and I could have easily prevented the two testers - innocent of the complex work of actual investigation - from making many of the egregious errors which have so seriously damaged their work. The results of McNally's test for signs of posttraumatic stress disorder were significant. Those reporting abductions showed virtually the same intensely emotional reactions upon hearing their taped accounts replayed as did the Vietnam vets when they heard the tapes of their traumatic war experiences. But as we soon learned in McNally's analysis of the test results, the devil was not in the details themselves but in his interpretation of the details. He announced that, since we "know" that UFO abductions don't exist, all of his subjects' accounts have to be false memories. And since they registered just as powerfully as "true" memories, what the test shows, he explained, is that "false" memories can be just as traumatic as "real" memories! This classic illustration of "heads I win, tails you lose" circular reasoning provides a perfect example of ideology trumping science. Unfortunately, as astronomer J. Allen Hynek once remarked, science is not always what scientists do. In effect, McNally seemed to be saying that even if his own test results support the traumatic reality of the abduction phenomenon, that fact changes nothing since UFO ABDUCTIONS JUST DO NOT EXIST, and that somehow, someway, he will make his test results fit his hypothesis! McNally's ideological interpretation of the test results - a clear example of "faith-based science" - is just as rigid in its way as the creationists' willful denigration of evolution, no matter what the fossil records have revealed. Susan Clancy's word memorization test as an indication of false memories is far more tenuous than McNally's test for the presence of posttraumatic stress. (This is perhaps not the place to go into its technical inadequacies, other than to reiterate what I have already said about its fatal flaw - the reliance upon an unvetted, self-selected sample. I will return to the specifics of her work in a later paper.) Instead, the problem I would like to discuss is her use of a rather simple word memorization protocol to ratify her belief that a subject's demonstrably traumatic memories are false. Clancy baldly stated in an early newspaper interview that she assumed everyone would accept the idea that all abduction experiences were false memories, because "everyone" knew there were no such things as UFO abductions. This, she apparently thought, was settled truth - and another illustration of irrational, faith-based science. So, at the outset of their work, neither she nor McNally intended to raise even the possibility that such things as UFO abductions might have occurred, let alone to actually investigate that possibility. The ideology they shared assumed that such experiences were, ipso facto, false memories, a theory the two seem to believe as fervently as the Pope believes in the virgin birth. Another analogy comes to mind. Instead of a group of abductees, imagine an equal number of women who have reported rape experiences and who are now to be tested by a pair of experimental psychologists. The psychologists state at the outset that they do not believe any of these women were actually raped and are proceeding on that assumption. Thus their goal is not to investigate the veracity of the women's claims but to discover a way of establishing their "tendencies to fantasize and form false memories." Since the testers "know" in advance that these rape memories are false, no police investigation into the alleged rape accounts is necessary - no examination of physical or medical evidence, no visits to alleged crime scenes, no interviews with possible witnesses, and no checks on the reputations of the rape victims. In short, nothing will be undertaken that might support the reality of their experiences. An outrageous, even inhumane idea, of course, but analogous to the Clancy-McNally attitude to UFO abductees. As I pointed out above, Clancy carried out no investigation of any of her subjects' abduction reports - no inquiries into supporting witnesses, no visits to alleged sites, no search for physical evidence, no interviews with friends and family members. Everything she did apparently took place in the laboratory, by way of her word memorization test and personal interviews, though she apparently lacked a firm grounding in the literature, history or complexity of the UFO phenomenon. Recently I appeared on "Larry King Live," along with Clancy and several others, when one of the guests showed a blow-up of the world-famous Trent UFO photographs from McMinnville, Oregon, arguably the best-known UFO photos in existence. They were prominently featured in "Life" magazine in 1950, and have been reproduced hundreds of times since in many publications. What's more, in 1969, after careful analysis, an investigator for the skeptical Condon Committee described the McMinnville photo case this way: "This is one of the few UFO reports in which all factors investigated, geometric, psychological, and physical, appear to be consistent with the assertion that an extraordinary flying object, silvery, metallic, disc-shaped, tens of meters in diameter, and evidently artificial, flew within sight of two witnesses." Optical physicist Dr. Bruce Maccabee has investigated this case thoroughly, flying to McMinneville, interviewing the Trents, their family and neighbors, taking his own test photos from the same location, and carrying out literally months of optical analysis of the original pictures. Maccabee's work has been published widely, but the photos themselves should be familiar to anyone with even a cursory involvement in UFO study and research. Yet, during the Larry King program, abduction authority Susan Clancy glanced at the photos on the monitor and said something like this: "that could be anything... someone who threw up a hubcap or a Frisbee or something." Her evident ignorance of this case, and, by extension, of the literature and history of the UFO phenomenon, was aptly illustrated by this glib, contemptuous wisecrack, a remark one might expect to hear late at night in a Texas barroom, but not from someone holding a Ph.D. degree from Harvard. Earlier, when King asked her how she became interested in the subject of UFO abductions, she began her answer this way: "I've been studying aliens for... " Studying aliens? Again, this peculiar description of her work in the laboratory is not what one would expect to hear from an experimental psychologist on an ostensibly serious TV program. Though as a faith-based scientist, Susan Clancy has no problem asserting her absolute belief that all UFO abduction accounts are nothing more than false memories, she is left with the problem of explaining how these memories are generated. By what process can many thousands of extremely similar accounts from around the world come into the heads of this multitude - especially since her colleague, Richard McNally, has established that abduction memories have essentially the same traumatic qualities as memories of the Vietnam War? Clancy's solution was to cobble together a melange of theories, many of them mutually contradictory, in an attempt to account for the power and similarity of these "false" memories. Abduction researchers have long been familiar with the explanations Clancy offers, and over the years we have refused to deal with many individuals whose abduction accounts are either extremely tenuous, lacking in evidence, or easily explained away. Where we differ from Clancy is that she insists upon her a priori belief that every abduction case can be explained away by her various theories and that no actual investigation is necessary, whereas experienced investigators, being scientific skeptics, believe that abduction accounts, accompanied by supporting evidence of various types, deserve investigation before firm conclusions about their credibility can be drawn. Her first explanation - one that is currently popular with debunkers of every stripe - is that abduction memories are formed during episodes of sleep paralysis, a relatively rare neurological event that usually lasts a matter of seconds. The sleep paralysis explanation has been eagerly seized upon because a sizeable percentage of UFO abductions occur at night, in the subject's bedroom. There are, of course, myriad objections to the sleep paralysis theory, but it clearly self-destructs before one central problem: the large percentage of UFO abductions which occur in the daytime, when the abductee is up and about, driving a car, taking a walk, playing in the front yard, or even, in one case, driving a tractor. In fact, for the first twenty years of UFO abduction accounts, I am aware of none that reportedly took place inside one's home or bedroom. So, as science decrees, if a theory does not fit the data, it must be rejected. Clancy also indicts the use of hypnosis as the medium by which false memories are implanted in unsuspecting clients by unscrupulous hypnotists. The problem with this theory is that about 30% of the thousands of UFO abduction reports researchers have investigated were recalled without the use of hypnosis. Beyond that, virtually all abductees recall at least some aspects of their experiences without hypnosis. Otherwise, they would have had no reason to contact an investigator in the first place. In the light of these facts, the "hypnosis explanation" as to how "false" abduction recollections are generated also collapses. It should be added that further doubts about the efficacy of hypnosis in inducing false memories have been raised by recent experimental studies, such as the work of psychologists Steven Lynn and Irving Kirsch. They summarize their results this way: "The most appropriate conclusion that can be drawn from the evidence is that hypnosis does not reliably produce more false memories than are produced in a variety of non-hypnotic situations in which misleading information is conveyed to participants." It is also a matter of record that many hypnotherapists with no knowledge of the abduction phenomenon have, to their surprise, uncovered traumatic abduction recollections in subjects with whom they were working. In fact, Dr. Benjamin Simon, a psychiatrist highly skeptical of UFO reality who was treating Betty and Barney Hill for post traumatic stress, uncovered details of their terrifying abduction experience in what is now seen as the first systematically investigated UFO abduction case. Obviously, during hypnosis, his personal skepticism had no effect whatsoever on the Hills' recollections. There are many reasons to trust the process of hypnosis, if it is handled carefully and skeptically, with the use of false leads and other validating techniques (all of which I have discussed elsewhere). But it should be clear by now that objective science must reject Clancy's theory that hypnosis per se is implicated in the wholesale generation of false memories. One of the early theories used to explain UFO abduction reports insisted that such experiences were nothing more than a new "space age religion." Since the gods are supposedly dead, abductees have invented encounters with "godlike" alien beings to replace them. But that highly speculative theory was discounted years ago by serious researchers on both sides of the issue because of yet another major problem: the vast majority of UFO abductees feel that their abductions have been deeply traumatizing - sometimes even physically painful and injurious - and that the small, hairless, big-eyed UFO occupants they describe are anything but godlike. (Richard McNally's own test results buttress this abductee view). It should be pointed out, however, that one occasionally comes across an abductee who is fully aware of the emotional trauma he has suffered, but who is nevertheless willing to regard these experiences as being, in some way, spiritually uplifting. For such people, this positive view of traumatic events is probably a coping strategy, similar to that of certain battered wives who will not complain to the police, but instead insist that their abusive husbands really do love them. Perhaps, for some battered wives as well as for some traumatized abductees, this kind of coping strategy is a way of retaining one's self esteem by fighting off the sense of being a helpless victim and by insisting that somewhere, somehow their ordeals must have a silver lining. One is reminded of the many victims of Hurricane Katrina who have lost everything but whom, when interviewed on television, cling to the idea that their ghastly experiences have somehow been transformative and spiritually uplifting. Equally damning of Clancy's religious explanation is the fact that the UFO reports of many abductees in more primitive cultures describe exactly the same details as do abductees in more advanced cultures, and yet these more primitive people work assiduously to make their UFO experiences fit into the schema of their traditional religions. Thus, in a well-known Zimbabwe incident, the natives who described small, white-skinned aliens in shiny one-piece jumpsuits insisted that they were the ghosts of their ancestors, who can now, apparently, fly around in wingless metal discs. Clancy would have us believe that many previously religious people have simply dropped their traditional beliefs and begun to worship the abducting aliens in a new kind of "false-memory religion," but in cases such as this African incident, the natives did the opposite. They forced the conventional "space age" UFO and the white-skinned aliens they had actually observed into strained conformity with their pre- existing religious beliefs. Thus their UFO experience can be seen as strengthening their traditional beliefs, rather than replacing them. Another shaky explanation Clancy mentions is that of media contamination. According to this idea, perfectly normal people are so influenced by something they've seen on TV or read in a book that, like helpless sponges, they adopt details from other people's abduction accounts and thus weave tenaciously held false memories from "an odd bruise" or a "strange feeling" or something equally tenuous. It is unnecessary to point out that experienced investigators would, at the outset, recognize these "wannabes" for what they were and refuse to deal with them. Furthermore, it seems obvious that these newly minted "wannabes" would be among the first to answer Clancy's ads soliciting abductees for her tests, because, in doing so they would achieve legitimacy by becoming part of her sample. Thus the central point of her "contamination" argument brilliantly exposes the original and most damaging flaw in her methodology: the self-selected and therefore completely unrepresentative nature of her subjects. So who were the people Clancy was attempting to test? Were there some apparently legitimate abductees among her sample? Possibly. Were there wannabes, publicity seekers and emotionally unstable people among her sample? Undoubtedly. And under these conditions, what kind of valid generalizations could she possibly make about the UFO abduction phenomenon? In the light of these crippling problems in her methodology, we must briefly consider which areas of the complex, many-sided abduction phenomenon which Clancy's faith-based attitude refused to consider. What kinds of data did she overlook? Here, briefly, are some examples: 1. She included no study of the patterns of well-known and clearly defined physical sequelae - scoop marks and straight- line cuts - that frequently appear on individuals after their abductions. 2. She included no reference to the patterns of ground traces - altered soil, tree branches snapped off from the top down, affects on the surrounding foliage, etc. that are often discovered at UFO landing sites after abductions. 3. She made no mention of the eye-witness testimony of neighbors observing a UFO hovering over a house where an abduction is taking place; of witnesses who search in vain for an abducted child who is later found outside a fully locked house; of the incidents in which the police are summoned because of the temporary disappearance of a baby from his crib or a child from her bedroom, but who turn up, unobserved, an hour or so later; or hundreds of similar cases in which abductees are known to be inexplicably missing. 4. She made no mention of the bizarre errors the UFO occupants often make, such as returning individuals from group abductions wearing someone else's clothes; replacing abductees in the wrong room or building after an abduction; or returning an individual to her bedroom in a locked and bolted house with her feet soiled and the back of her nightgown covered with damp leaves; or any of the scores of other such significant errors. 5. She made no mention of the hundreds of cases in which two or more individuals are abducted at once, and whose traumatic memories match in every detail. 6. She made no mention of a few accounts - such as the Travis Walton case or the Linda Cortile abduction - in which numerous witnesses see all or part of the abduction as it is being carried out. 7. She made no effort to interview the friends and family members of the people in her sample, or in fact anyone who might have insight into their general trustworthiness and emotional soundness. Instead, Susan Clancy alone, because of her faith in the non-existence of UFO abductions, decided that all of her subjects' abduction accounts were false, and that all of their traumatic recollections were nothing more than false memories. She is therefore implying - indirectly but absolutely - that none of her subjects can tell the difference between dream and reality. To the public at large, this means, in effect, that an experimental psychologist with a Harvard degree believes everyone claiming UFO abduction experiences is suffering from a form of mental illness. For me, in the absence of any actual investigation of their accounts, such a radical, blanket condemnation by Susan Clancy of her innocent and naively trusting subjects is both ethically reprehensible and a disgrace to science.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Couple Looks Skyward Following Close Encounter From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:06:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:06:40 -0500 Subject: Couple Looks Skyward Following Close Encounter Source: CBC Radio - Newfoundland & Labrador - Canada http://www.cbc.ca/nl/story/nf_close_encounter_20051219.html Dec 19 2005 --- CBC reporter Dave Bartlett interviews Joanne Knee about her experience with an object that crashed near her truck: http://www.cbc.ca/clips/Stjohns/ram-audio/bartlett_knee_20051219.ram --- Couple Looks Skyward Following Close Encounter CBC News A couple in Central Newfoundland has had a close encounter with a mysterious object that appeared to fall from the sky at a high speed. "I would say [it was] the size of a chicken, probably," says Joanne Knee, who says her experience on Friday afternoon reminded her of the story of Chicken Little. Knee and her husband were driving from Gander to Carmanville when an object narrowly missed their truck. She said the beige-coloured rock hit the ground so close to the truck that when it exploded, shards damaged the front grill and a signal light. "It was such an explosion from it," she said. "It was just [as] if someone had shot off a gun in the truck. It was just amazing." Knee and her husband returned to the spot Saturday to find a pile of charcoal-like rock. They picked up a sample, and after a little digging observed that a cylindrical piece of the material was lodged deep into the side of the road. Knee said there was no sign of construction or of people working in the area. Joe Hodych, who teaches earth sciences at Memorial University, said it is possible that the object came from space, and that he is anxious to see the sample. "Meteorites are very rare. So most reports turn out not to be meteorites in the end," Hodych said. "But they're extremely important to science." Knee hopes someone like Hodych will analyze the rock.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 05:48:01 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:19:50 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Hamilton >From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:53:21 -0600 >Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:07:59 -0500 >>Subject: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >>Source: American Chronicle - Beverly Hills, California, USA >>http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=3D4246 >>December 16, 2005 >>'Project Serpo' Mission To Visitors' Home Planet Described In Detail >>By Steve Hammons ><snip> >>Maybe we'll find out if Anonymous and his friends are right - >>that Americans and humankind are ready for this kind of >>knowledge. >It's been my experience that more often than not, "Anonymous" >and his friends are up to no good. And, yet they let slip discrepancies in the data. The Eben planet SERPO is allegedly in the Zeta Reticuli system. These facts are given: Statistics on the Eben planet was collected by our team. Here is the pertinent data for your UFO thread list: Diameter: 7,218 miles Mass: 5.06 x 1024 Distance from Sun #1: 96.5 million miles Sun #2: 91.4 million miles Moons: 2 That SERPO is this close to two suns doesn't add up. Zeta Ret 1 and Zeta Ret 2 are suns that are more than 350 billion miles apart, a factor of at least 1944X greater than the data given. The Ebens supposedly use a tower and the sun (like a big sundial) to tell time. They did not seem to have clocks like we do. How, then, do they develop advanced technology and become a spacefaring nation? All computers and avionics need timing circuits. Why make disinformation so obvious?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:07:13 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 12:22:11 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:35:34 EST >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:28:55 -0500 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>Has anyone reading this ever had a visualization of a brief >>bit of an abduction experience while awake, but just after >>waking at night? Something in the nature of an extremely vivid >>flashback. >The rest of my post was deleted and answered your question in >advance. I gave several examples of how to test the hypothesis >of sleep paralysis imagery (see below) by comparing time >durations, locational situation, sleeping vs. waking state, >physical "grabbings" or lack of same reported, content of >imagery and lack of other traumatic "abductor" >personalities/themes (such as Devil, Osama bin Laden, et al.), >etc.: Brad, I simply wanted to know if anyone else has had the same experience of a brief and vivid flashback, just after waking, involving abduction imagery. I have never experienced sleep paralysis. When I have vivid dreams I know immediately upon waking that they have been dreams, no matter how vivid.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 21 Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Rosco From: Janesse Rosco <janesse.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:20:28 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:03:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Rosco >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Cc: info.nul >Subject: UFO UpDate: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? >Who is behind ufoevidence.org and why are they ripping-off >many in the field? There've been many complaints about the site. >The work of UFO authors, researchers, witnesses and websites >is being posted to the ufoevidence.org site without credit >or attribution to those who created the material. >Back in January of this year WhoIs listed the following >info on ufoevidence.org: >Tech Name:DEVESH KUMAR >Tech Street1: 6104 NE 60th >Tech City:Seattle >Tech State/Province:WA >Tech Postal Code:98115 >Tech Country:US >Tech Phone:+1.4252521410 >Tech Email:devesh.nul >Name Server:NS1.WORLDREV.ORG You might try the University of Washington, this is the address
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 'NASACast' Portable Digital Audio & Video From: NASA News <hqnews.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:24:35 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:49:07 -0500 Subject: 'NASACast' Portable Digital Audio & Video December 21, 2005 Bob Jacobs/Brian Dunbar Headquarters, Washington (202) 358-1600/0873 RELEASE: 05-551 'NASACast' Provides Audio And Video For The Portable Digital Age You no longer have to be seated in front of a TV or computer to get NASA news and information. You can take the latest NASA discoveries and developments with you, whether you're running errands or making your daily commute. The new free service is called NASAcast. It allows subscribers to download NASA features, news and other content as part of a new free podcast service. Podcasting is the latest on-the-go technology that gives users the freedom to listen to or watch news and other programs anywhere, anytime. Podcasts are digital audio and video files automatically downloaded to personal computers and transferred to an iPod or similar player. Just like a magazine subscription, a podcast delivers new information directly to you. When you subscribe, your podcast software automatically searches for new content. "These emerging on-demand technologies are changing the way people stay informed about the world around them," said David Mould, assistant administrator for Public Affairs at NASA Headquarters. "We're committed to making information about space exploration more accessible to audiences that may not normally get a chance to experience the exciting things we do." Agency selections include the features from NASA's Web site, www.nasa.gov; "This Week.nul" from NASA TV; interviews with Stardust and Mars Exploration Rover scientists; and an interview and concert clips from former Beatle Sir Paul McCartney's historic live hook-up to the International Space Station. All the latest NASAcast audio and video will automatically get downloaded. Subscribers can choose to listen or view the content at their computer or download it to a portable digital device for later use. Detailed information about how to use this new free service is available on the Web at: http://www.nasa.gov/podcast -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Rogerson From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:33 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:52:08 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Rogerson >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:10:08 -0600 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:01:01 +0000 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:52:12 EST >>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' ><snip> >>>If "abductions" were really caused by sleep paralysis and >>>hygnogogic and hypnopompic hallucinations _then_ (class if-then >>>argumentation in science) we should see abductions as extremely >>>brief incidents usually at onset of sleep or waking _in bed_, >>>never hours-long visions occurring in all sorts of physical >>>situations including driving cars. We should see a variety of >>>visions not just "aliens" and we should not see "abductions" >>>because no one ever reports being _grabbed_ by any of the sleep >>>state hallucinations. >>>And if UFO abductions are really sleep-state visions then why >>>only UFO's or aliens? Why aren't people having sleep-state >>>hallucinations of being "abducted" by terrorists or bank >>>robbers? Why aren't people seeing Osama bin-Laden in their >>>sleep-state dreams, or the Devil? >>>In fact I doubt one can find _any_ sleep-state visions among >>>actual UFO abduction cases, by which I do not mean using >>>adulterated "abduction" databases where actual UFO abductions >>>have been mixed in with non-UFO or questionable sleep-state >>>delusions. >These are all excellent points. Of course, if sleep-paralysis >hallucinations about criminal kidnappers were a real phenomenon, >it would be extensively documented not only in the scientific >literature but in police archives and criminology journals. >Because people spend more time fearing criminals than aliens, we >would expect to find vast numbers of crime-generated delusions. >We don't. >>Hypnogogic, hypnopompic and sleep paralysis imagery is probably >>responsible for many a ghost story, including our old friend the >>phantom hitchhiker. In past times people _saw_ all sorts of >>monsters and bogies, not to say their neighbours who they then >>accused of being witches.... >>Of course only that subset of these experiences which fit the >>ufo/alien abduction profile get reported in a ufo context, and >>only the smallest fraction will get reported at all. >Why did X think he saw aliens/anomalous entities? Because he >suffered from sleep-paralysis hallucination. >How do we know he was sleeping? Because he thought he saw >aliens/anomalous entities. >Call it peli-logic. Jerry It would help if you read posts before replying to them. I referred to reports of burglars/intruders not kidnappers. Once police have investigated and found no evidence of an intruder I imagine they will simply put it down to a bad dream. The nearest approach to abduction like stories involving terrestrial criminals are people who claim that they have been taken out of their houses at night to take part in Satanic rituals. These were a part of the Satanic abuse panics of the late 80s and early 90s. If you are arguing that the various entities _seen_ by asp experients are not subjective, what do you think they are. For example when a work collegue of mine has asp experiences in which a stranger stands on her threshold and throws a rat at her, are you saying there really is a phantom stranger and phantom rat in the room, which could be picked up by a video camera. Or is it more likely, as she herself is positive of, that this experience is a fantasy based on a time when her husband came in the room to wake her up and tell her about a rat in the garden.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction? - Rogerson From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:18:27 +0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:55:04 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction? - Rogerson >From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 00:16:53 -0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction? >>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:01:01 +0000 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >Hello Peter >>Hypnogogic, hypnopompic and sleep paralysis imagery is probably >>responsible for many a ghost story, including our old friend the >>phantom hitchhiker. In past times people _saw_ all sorts of >>monsters and bogies, not to say their neighbours who they then >>accused of being witches. >Well, I for one have been pretty skeptical of witchcraze claims >ever since I read Linnda Caporael's paper debunking the mythology >surounding the Salem witch trials, but I guess you may have a >point here. >>Sleep paralysis episodes have certainly generated sexual abuse >>memories on occasion ><snip> >"Certainly" is a very strong claim - is there compelling >evidence to back this up? I just did a Medline search on this >topic, and all I could find was a correspondence on the >McNally/Clancy paper cited here previously: >"Sleep paralysis in adults reporting repressed, recovered, or >continuous memories of childhood sexual abuse. >McNally RJ, Clancy SA. >J Anxiety Disord. 2005;19(5):595-602." >This study tested the hypothesis that sleep paralysis generates >memories of sexual abuse, and found the hypothesis was not >supported. >>Of course only that subset of these experiences which fit the >>ufo/alien abduction profile get reported in a ufo context, and >>only the smallest fraction will get reported at all. >This should provide a great opportunity for testing the sleep >paralysis hypothesis. If the hypothesis is true, there should be >a vast reservoir of unreported cases which don't reflect the UFO >template but do reflect the distribution of narrative and >imagery in the culture in which they occur, eg we should find >accounts of abductions by terrorists or cybermen as well as gray >aliens. In which case it should be possible to find them, which >would constitute an unambiguous testable prediction. >This is great. We can stop arguing and get on to some serious >empirical work. That should satisfy everyone, be they Magonians, >ETHers, or anyone else, surely? Abduction like experiences involving terrestrial criminals are most likely to be regarded as dreams, same goes for ones involving cybermen, Klingons and the like. The exception were the claims of people that they were being taken from their homes at night to take part in Satanic rituals. Maybe in order to test the hypothesis we would have to create a entirely new anomalous experience, complete with _witnesses_ and _experts_ to go on chat shows. But of course that would be an ethical minefield. However one study which might be of interest which could be done without too much trouble would be a survey of people who _remember_ that as children they actually _saw_ Santa Claus complete with sledge and reindeer. Though no doubt some ufologists would then say that Santa was a screen memory for
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Bueche From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 11:31:37 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:05:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Bueche >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 03:04:08 -0800 >Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:18:45 -0500 >Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? <snip> >Virtually anyone who has written anything substantial about UFOs >has had their materials copied: >The entire Magonia Catalog by Vallee, in sections. >Whole chapters from Ufology, the book by James M McCampbell >Any number of articles by: >Jerome Clark >Richard Hall >Bruce Maccabee >Michael Lindemann >Dr. John Mack >Stanton Friedman >Dr. Don Johnson >Keith Basterfield >Nick Pope >Diane Harrison >Greg Sandow... you name 'em. I have a vague recollection of granting permission for that site to reproduce many of John Mack's articles, back when I was responsible for such things. Their site is nicely laid out, IMO. I see that beneath each of the articles that they've reprinted, they provide a link ("Original Source") to the original site where the article came from. That being said, one must grant that their site is only possible
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:12:14 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:24:10 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Hatch >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 05:48:01 -0800 >Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:53:21 -0600 >>Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >>>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:07:59 -0500 >>>Subject: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >>>Source: American Chronicle - Beverly Hills, California, USA >>>http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=3D4246 >>>December 16, 2005 >>>'Project Serpo' Mission To Visitors' Home Planet Described In Detail >>>By Steve Hammons >><snip> >>>Maybe we'll find out if Anonymous and his friends are right - >>>that Americans and humankind are ready for this kind of >>>knowledge. >>It's been my experience that more often than not, "Anonymous" >>and his friends are up to no good. >And, yet they let slip discrepancies in the data. >The Eben planet SERPO is allegedly in the Zeta Reticuli system. >These facts are given: >Statistics on the Eben planet was collected by our team. Here i>s the pertinent data for your UFO thread list: >Diameter: 7,218 miles >Mass: 5.06 x 1024 >Distance from Sun #1: 96.5 million miles >Sun #2: 91.4 million miles >Moons: 2 >That SERPO is this close to two suns doesn't add up. Zeta Ret 1 >and Zeta Ret 2 are suns that are more than 350 billion miles >apart, a factor of at least 1944X greater than the data given. >The Ebens supposedly use a tower and the sun (like a big >sundial) to tell time. They did not seem to have clocks >like we do. How, then, do they develop advanced technology >and become a spacefaring nation? All computers and avionics >need timing circuits. >Why make disinformation so obvious? >Or, is it just a prank? >-Bill Hamilton Hi Bill: Mass: 5.06 x 1024? 5.05e1024 WHAT? Pounds? Kilograms? Mass is not a dimensionless number.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:08:16 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:25:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? - Gates >From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 04:48:55 -0800 >Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? >>From: SMiles Lewis <elfis.nul > >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:54:04 -0000 >>Subject: Re: Why Is ufoevidence.org A Rip-Off? <brevity snip> I hate to be the kill joy on this issue, but instead of going on and blathering endlessly about it, just lawyer up and nail the dude. I suspect that people are very irritated about the whole web site BUT not irritated enough to get a lawyer. If the issue is cut and dried, the courts would like order the dude to pay attorneys costs and fees.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:12:29 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:26:24 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Gates >Source: American Chronicle - Beverly Hills, California, USA >http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=4246 >December 16, 2005 >'Project Serpo' Mission To Visitors' Home Planet Described In Detail >By Steve Hammons <drival snip> Listers, We have yet and again another tale being wagged by unidentified and unknown sources, allegedly working at DIA and otherwise. Naturally their is no documentation forth coming from the government, and the alleged principles that could verify this have all died from radiation poisoning. I predict those folks who like this story (tickles their ears) will endlessly promote and defend it. No matter what inconsistencys and problems float up they will rationalize them all away, like many other story tellers of our time. I see the tale wagging the dog yet and again one more time.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:21:06 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:28:29 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Shough >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:35:34 EST >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:28:55 -0500 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:52:12 EST >>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' <snip> >>>And if UFO abductions are really sleep-state visions then why >>>only UFOs or aliens? Why aren't people having sleep-state >>>hallucinations of being "abducted" by terrorists or bank >>>robbers? Why aren't people seeing Osama bin-Laden in their >>>sleep-state dreams, or the Devil? Hi Brad As you and Cathy Reason both indicate, it might be possible to test the special status of UFO abductions by looking for close parallels in different belief areas exploiting different images and narratives. But we need to guard against the assumption that all the different image and narrative elements are freely portable between the different categories. This may not be the case, so I just want to suggest that the protocol of any such work would have to be thought out with care. For example, you could argue that people ought to experience anomalous imagery of Osama Bin Laden with the same a priori probability as anomalous imagery of ufonauts. But it doesn't follow that the _reporting_ of _abduction_ associated with them should occur with the same probability. An abduction by terrorists would involve 'real-world' consequences whose absence the experient would find it difficult to explain to his/herself - such as not waking up in Saudi Arabia and not having bullet holes in the ceiling, the door smashed in or neighbours describing the incident to police. Having a sleep-state hallucination of Osama Bin Laden dragging you from your bedroom thus contains naturalistic inconsistencies that will militate against you taking it seriously afterwards and against others providing a public forum for your account even if you do. On the other hand an hallucination of abduction by "supernatural" or supernormal beings (be they witches, fairies, ufonauts etc) contains its own inconsistency-repair kit. This could even be a definition of what society calls "supernaturalism" in such a case, that the narrative and imagery take such a form as to "explain away" to the experient the physical/logical inconsistencies of the experience. Individually and socially, the existence of a category of narrative in terms of which the force of such naturalistic inconsistencies can be removed or reduced (i.e., alien abduction) may constitute a "permission" to believe and so reinforce the viability of experiences of this type in the culture. The point is that "real" sleep-state alien abductions might be difficult to tell from "hallucinatory" sleep-state alien abductions because both could be expected to involve naturalistic inconsistencies of an analogous kind. By comparing frequencies of terrorist or bankrobber abductions (say) versus UFO abductions you might be testing for the presence or absence of naturalistic inconsistencies, but this test might not be able to test between the two hypotheses of interest to us.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:53:45 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:32:33 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Shough >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:07:13 -0500 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:35:34 EST >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:28:55 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>Has anyone reading this ever had a visualization of a brief >>>bit of an abduction experience while awake, but just after >>>waking at night? Something in the nature of an extremely vivid >>>flashback. Hi Pavel My direct answer to your question is "no", but I may have had experiences that are indirectly relevant to your question. I have had extremely vivid imagery in the moments after waking, when self aware to the extent of realising that I have awoken from sleep and knowing that what I am seeing is an "hallucination" that will fade momentarily. This has occurred occasionally many times since I was a child, sometimes in persistent spells almost nightly for a period of weeks or more - the last time about a year ago. While in this state I have been able to study these images quite carefully, or as carefully as you can in a couple of seconds after waking - I should rather say I have studied them deliberately, because they have this character of being independent of my own thoughts and actions. For the very brief time that they exist they appear objective. Some other interesting things: 1) In all cases but one, the images have been created out of objects in the room, as though the process exploits materials available in the visual field rather than creating imagery entirely from the contents of the mind 2) In not one instance that I can recall has this imagery had any connection with the contents a previous dream 3) In not one instance has this imagery ever had any ufological content, or indeed any sort of very exotic content, although I have been interested in UFOs and paranormal topics since childhood.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:48:30 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:36:06 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Hatch >Source: The Website of Robert A. Freitas, Jr. >Pilot Hill, California, USA >http://tinyurl.com/c7zcc >There Is No Fermi Paradox >Robert A. Freitas, Jr. >Xenology Research Institute >8256 Scottsdale Drive Sacramento, California 95828 >Icarus 62:518-520 (1985) >Received June 25, 1984: revised March 18, 1985 >The "Fermi Paradox," an argument that extraterrestrial intelligence cannot exist because it has not yet been observed, is a logical fallacy. This "paradox" is a formally invalid inference. both because it requires modal operators lying outside the first-order propositional calculus and because it is unsupported by the observational record. =A9 1985 Academic Press. Inc. <snip> Oh heck. I think I can mangle the Fermi argument in far fewer words: - The lack of alien spacecraft implies that they cannot get here (time, distance, scarcity of alien technological civilizations ..) - Since they can't get here, nobody has really seen them. - Since nobody has seen a genuine UFO, this means they can't be coming here.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Goldstein From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:55:38 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:39:06 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Goldstein >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 05:48:01 -0800 >Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 21:53:21 -0600 >>Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >>>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:07:59 -0500 >>>Subject: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >>>Source: American Chronicle - Beverly Hills, California, USA >>>http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp? articleID=3D4246 >>>December 16, 2005 >>>'Project Serpo' Mission To Visitors' Home Planet Described In Detail >>>By Steve Hammons >><snip> >>>Maybe we'll find out if Anonymous and his friends are right - >>>that Americans and humankind are ready for this kind of >>>knowledge. >>It's been my experience that more often than not, "Anonymous" >>and his friends are up to no good. >And, yet they let slip discrepancies in the data. >The Eben planet SERPO is allegedly in the Zeta Reticuli system. >These facts are given: >Statistics on the Eben planet was collected by our team. >Here is the pertinent data for your UFO thread list: >Diameter: 7,218 miles >Mass: 5.06 x 1024 >Distance from Sun #1: 96.5 million miles >Sun #2: 91.4 million miles >Moons: 2 >That SERPO is this close to two suns doesn't add up. Zeta Ret 1 >and Zeta Ret 2 are suns that are more than 350 billion miles >apart, a factor of at least 1944X greater than the data given. >The Ebens supposedly use a tower and the sun (like a big >sundial) to tell time. They did not seem to have clocks >like we do. How, then, do they develop advanced technology >and become a spacefaring nation? All computers and avionics >need timing circuits. >Why make disinformation so obvious? >Or, is it just a prank? Bill and my fellow Listerions, It is true. Serpo exists. It is led by the great master Serpico. Where do you think serpents came from? Serpo of course. Where did the name Ebeneazor come from? From Eben of course. They too had a serpent in the garden of Eben. Men on the list - that serpent hanging between your legs also came from Serpo. It is all Serpentine. They eben drink frozen serpys from their 7-11 stores. It is all odds and ebens in Serpo Vegas. They have serpentine roads at Area 51. It is all true - take my word. Josh Goldstein
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction? - Reason From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:53:51 -0000 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:42:04 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction? - Reason >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:18:27 +0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction? >Abduction like experiences involving terrestrial criminals are >most likely to be regarded as dreams, same goes for ones >involving cybermen, Klingons and the like. Ah, so the hypothesis is indefinitely elastic, makes no predictions and is completely unfalsifiable? How astonishing. >The exception were >the claims of people that they were being taken from their homes >at night to take part in Satanic rituals. We can argue about the significance of SRA till the cows come home, Peter, but do you have any evidence that memories of SRA have been generated specifically by sleep paralysis? >Maybe in order to test the hypothesis we would have to create a >entirely new anomalous experience, complete with _witnesses_ and >_experts_ to go on chat shows. But of course that would be an >ethical minefield. Well of course, one excellent way of not having to commit yourself to a definitive test of anything, is to propose an experiment that can't possibly be done. >However one study which might be of interest which could be done >without too much trouble would be a survey of people who >_remember_ that as children they actually _saw_ Santa Claus >complete with sledge and reindeer. Might be interesting, I agree. What would it tell us though? >Though no doubt some >ufologists would then say that Santa was a screen memory for >alien abduction! Whereas the parsimonious explanation would be...?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:57:55 -0200 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:46:01 -0500 Subject: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? Hi to all. Has anybody here seen and could comment on the US History channel's show 'Brazil's Roswell', about the secret investigation of UFOs in the Amazon by our military. The show started airing last Sunday. See details: http://www.historychannel.com/thcsearch/thc_search.do THC's description of the show: "In September 1977, something amazing appears in the night sky over the Brazilian island of Colares in the Amazon delta - a luminous object hovering about 15 feet over the water. For nearly two months, strange flying objects visit the island - some big, some small, saucer-shaped, cigar-shaped, some luminous and some not. Witnesses report they felt as if blood had been sucked from them by the strange rays. More than 30 residents suffer puncture wounds or burns after their encounters. Two islanders reportedly die from their injuries. The Brazilian Air Force sends a task force to the island for three months and it returns with 300 night photos and several motion picture reels. Though a 500-page report is compiled, along with a catalogue of the sightings, maps, and interview transcripts, it's kept from the public. Then, in May 2005, a few of the details are released, but many questions go unanswered. In this unique hour, we examine these mysterious happenings in depth." Thanx to all. Have a great Christmas!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:25:55 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:49:07 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Clark >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:33 +0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:10:08 -0600 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 19:01:01 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:52:12 EST >>>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>These are all excellent points. Of course, if sleep-paralysis >>hallucinations about criminal kidnappers were a real phenomenon, >>it would be extensively documented not only in the scientific >>literature but in police archives and criminology journals. >>Because people spend more time fearing criminals than aliens, we >>would expect to find vast numbers of crime-generated delusions. >>We don't. >>>Hypnogogic, hypnopompic and sleep paralysis imagery is probably >>>responsible for many a ghost story, including our old friend the >>>phantom hitchhiker. In past times people _saw_ all sorts of >>>monsters and bogies, not to say their neighbours who they then >>>accused of being witches.... >>Why did X think he saw aliens/anomalous entities? Because he >>suffered from sleep-paralysis hallucination. >>How do we know he was sleeping? Because he thought he saw >>aliens/anomalous entities. >>Call it peli-logic. >Jerry It would help if you read posts before replying to them. >I referred to reports of burglars/intruders not kidnappers. >Once police have investigated and found no evidence of an >intruder I imagine they will simply put it down to a bad dream. So where is the evidence that this happens? If it happened, it would happen far more frequently than abduction or anomalous reports, because far more people fear criminal intruders than they do extraordinary, otherworldly entities. Yours is not an answer. It's just wing-flapping. It would help if you thought your postings through before pressing the send command. >If you are arguing that the various entities _seen_ by asp >experients are not subjective, what do you think they are[?]. I have no idea, and neither do you. The difference is that I admit it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Filer's Files #52 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:39:42 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:42:31 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #52 - 2005 Filer's Files #52 - 2005 George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International December 21, 2005 Webmaster Chuck Warren www.nationalufocenter.com May You Have a Wonderful Christmas and your holidays all be filled with the divine blessings. God bless and keep you and your family safe and sound all year through. Best Wishes George Filer This week's files cover: Angels are extraterrestrials, Mars - Artificial Pyramid Construction, Egypt ancient UFO. The Death of Walter Haut who reported the Roswell UFO crash. In addition, witnesses saw UFOs over Alabama, California, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Kansas, Michigan, Montana, New Jersey, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas, Virginia, and Wisconsin. Many witnesses saw UFOs in Australia, Canada, Mexico, Republic of Palau and United Kingdom. The purpose of these files is to report weekly the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world. These Files assume that extraterrestrial intelligent life not only exists, but my hypothesis is that of the over one hundred UFOs reported each week, many represent alien craft. The United States Air Force Project conducted a worldwide investigation of UFOs from 1947 until December 1969, when it disbanded its investigative team. We are continuing the investigation. Angels to Watch Over Us ANGELS - It seems appropriate that during the holidays we discuss angels since numerous ancient writings tell us they are extraterrestrial visitors. They are essentially spiritual and superhuman beings who are messengers of God and visitors from the planet Heaven. The Bible records the existence of many millions of angelic beings (Revelation 5:11). One angel brought the message of the entire Koran to Mohammed and the Moslems. (It is interesting to note the Koran prohibits suicide and the killing of innocent civilians.) An Angel of the Lord spoke with Abraham in the Torah, when he was 99 years old and childless, telling the Jewish leader he would be the father of a multitude of nations. According to Genesis he was. The Eastern religions speak of Devas who are organized in a military hierarchy and operate in a similar manner to angels. In the Christian Bible it states: "In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth and a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, "Greetings you are highly favored! The Lord is with you." Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his Father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, his kingdom will never end. "How can this be" Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?' The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will over shadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God!" Luke 1-verses 26 to 35. Two thousand years later, much of world celebrates this birth at Christmas. These angelic visitors are real according to most of the great historic religious writings of mankind and much of Earth's history revolves around these visitors from space who are often identified as Gods or angels. In Vedic writings the topmost authority in the material universe is known as Brahma, and he lives in the highest material planetary system, called Brahmaloka or heaven. It seems reasonable to assume the most sacred writings of our ancestors are not simply myths, but are based on actual visits by angels, ET visitors, devas or what ever you choose to call them. They are often given credit for bringing writing, agriculture, and religion to Earth. Thousands of books, art and songs have been authored describing their interactions with Earth. If you visit the great temples and churches around the world, almost all have the story of a strange being who oversaw their construction. Often there are similar stories of strange flying objects in the sky and even art to convince us they are real. We celebrate Christmas throughout much of the world based on the birth of Jesus Christ 2000 years ago. The logical question is what has this to do with UFOs? I suggest there is a connection. Scientist Dr. Carl Sagan in his book, "Intelligent Life in the Universe" indicated Earth had likely been visited by extraterrestrials. He states: "Sumer was an early - perhaps the first - civilization the contemporary sense on the planet Earth. It was founded in the forth millennium B.C. or earlier. We don't know where the Sumerians came from. I feel that if the Sumerian civilization is depicted by the descendents of the Sumerians themselves to be of non-human origin, the relevant legends should be examined carefully." (page 456) He goes on to ask, "What might an advanced extraterrestrial civilization want from us?"......He answered his own question by stating, "One of the primary motivations for the exploration of the New World was to convert the inhabitants to Christianity - peacefully if possible - forcefully if necessary. Can we exclude the possibility of an extraterrestrial evangelism?" (Page 463) Few remember that Angels and their glowing craft had a key role in history of diverse nations. Angels are celestial beings believed to be a messenger or mediator between God and humankind, perhaps to prepare Earth to join other civilizations in space. In ancient Mesapotomia, ancient Greece, Judaism, Christianity and in Islam angels were sent as divine messengers to humans to instruct, inform, or command. Angels also function as heavenly warriors and as guardians. Many abductees claim healing, love and miracles from the angels. Angels are often called the Sons of God. In traditional Israelite thought, angels were assumed to have the form of human males, and as a consequence they were sometimes mistaken for men. Billy Graham, the evangelical minister and the friend of US Presidents in his book, "Angels," makes the following surprising statements, "Some have speculated that UFOs could very well be a part of God's angelic host who preside over the physical affairs of universal creation. While we cannot assert such a view with certainty nothing can hide the fact that these unexplained events are occurring with greater frequency around the entire world. Some take the detailed descriptions of a highly credible airline crew and lay them alongside Ezekiel and put forth a strong case -- such theories are now being given serious attention even by people who make no claim to believe in the God of the Bible. UFOs are astonishingly angel-like in some of their reported appearances." Most of the description of angels compares nicely with our available data of at least one group of the alien visitors. In Genesis, the first book of the Bible and Torah, angels are described as having bodies with parts such as hands, feet, eyes, head, voices, mouths, hair, faces and other human body parts. A few years ago, I had dinner with Zecharia Sitchin the best selling author of books called the "Earth Chronicles." He told me that Genesis is true and ought to be read as an historic and scientific document rather than just a religious one. He felt ancient civilizations are older and much more technically and scientifically oriented than we once believed. The Bible and Ancient Sumerian texts reveal the existence of angels or Anunnaki, 'Those who from Heaven to Earth Came.' He felt that only in recent years has modern science caught up with ancient scientific knowledge. The Bible often mentions angels in glowing metal craft of the divine glory and brightness and the appearance of fire as in the Hebrew word 'hashmal.' The descriptions of Ezekiel (1:4, 8:2) clearly indicate brilliant highly polished glowing yellow like brass or electrum an alloy of silver and gold. The Bible states, "Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem, in Judea, during the reign of King Herod." At about that time some wise men from eastern lands arrived in Jerusalem, asking, 'Where is the new born King of the Jews?' for we have seen his star in far-off eastern lands, and have come to worship him." (Mathew- 2.) Since all stars rise in the East and move 15 degrees West each hour it would be difficult to follow a real star for many nights west to a small town of Bethlehem. A light above was most likely a hovering UFO. If you care to make the assumption that angels and extraterrestrials exist, perhaps they are the same. Both the Sumerians and Egyptians claim the Gods or his messengers brought writing and religion to Earth. Consider that ancient religious texts are in fact true, that the promises of the Bible are fulfilled by advanced technology and alien angels. Several of my friends claim they were healed by angels and others claim angels can control events that happen in the world, and may protect you. I even have a few angels hanging around to protect my family and so far they're doing a great job. So remember when you enjoy Christmas it all started with an angel. For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways. Merry Christmas! Walter Haut Issued UFO Crash Report ROSWELL - I met and talked with Walter Haut several times during my speaking engagement at the museum. He was always friendly, an officer and a gentleman who had inside knowledge of the Roswell UFO crash. He was a U.S. Army lieutenant who was the Base Public Relations Officer at Roswell Army Air Field that issued the famous news release about the crash of a flying saucer, in New Mexico in 1947.[] Walter has died at 83, but the speculation he started about the UFO crash will live on. He would invite me in and close his office door at the Roswell Museum to explain details of what he knew about the crash. He always told me there was a lot more information that he had sworn not to tell, but it would be released after his death. He told me, that on July 8, 1947, Col. William Blanchard, the base commander dictated information about a recovered flying saucer and ordered Haut to issue it. He implied the story was designed to take the heat off the recovery of a UFO. That a weather balloon cover story would follow his release. Walter was convinced an alien craft had crashed but too many people knew about it. The Roswell Daily Record ran a bold headline July 9, 1947: "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region. - Later the Army claimed it was the recovered wreckage of a weather balloon. In 1991, Haut and two other men founded The International UFO Museum where he was president until 1996. More than 2 1 /2 million people have visited the museum since it opened in 1992. Walter was born June 3, 1922, in Chicago, and is survived by his two daughters. A funeral service was held at Trinity United Methodist Church in Roswell. He will be greatly missed. UFO Image in Egypt Kristen writes, "This is the mysterious "Boat of Sokar" image city Sakkara is named after him. John Anthony West told me that no one knows the meaning or purpose of this mysterious "boat". On the wall opposite it are the Siriusian gods, believed to have come from Sirius. Each with the red disk above their heads, also seen here. I always suspected that the red ball indicated the vehicle they had arrived in. The glowing red ball was like the UFO I saw in New Mexico in '79. You see in the image above that its base is a canoe, and was depicted this way to show that it is a vehicle. But it has a highly exaggerated curve and large dome on top, with the red disk at the very top. The paddles rest in the stands, which indicate they did not move by paddle power. The front end is lined with birds on top, with a large fringe or "wing" hanging from it. This indicates that this vehicle flew through the air. Also notice the many tripod-type legs the platform is on. I enjoyed your Egyptian data in FF #51, because I visited there in '97 and '99 when I found this fascinating image behind a locked iron gate. On the wall opposite the Siriun gods who were obviously performing some kind of a sacred ceremony, there was a fascinating vehicle that took up the entire wall. John Anthony West told me, after emailing the image to him, that it's called "The Boat of Sokhar, but that no one knows what it was used for. I strongly feel that it's an image of a UFO. Nowhere else in Egypt is a canoe shown with such an exaggerated curve. The canoe is used as the base, to show that it was a vehicle. But clues like the paddles resting in the paddle stands at the back, and birds along the front edge, show me that it didn't need the paddles to travel, but rather that it flew thru the air. It also has a curious large dome on top of the canoe, with the red disk on top. Tripod-like legs are beneath it. Visit my site at: www.GemsAndBeyond.com Thanks to Kristen Editor's Note: A friend of mine who was awarded a free trip to Egypt for winning the New Jersey teacher of the year award, claimed she was shown artifacts and underground structures that must have been made by a technology far advanced to our civilization. They were guarded by men with machineguns and only a few people know of their existence. Mars Pyramids - A Possible Coverup Job John E. Combest, writes, "Just finished reading through FF #51, and the article of the pyramids on Mars. It is my guess that the Mars photo does not show the worn-down, eroded surface of a pyramid, but the meteor-cratered surface instead consists of 50 to 75 feet of Mars eroded topsoil. My study of Mars has convinced me that the planet-wide catastrophe that struck Mars about 4500 years ago removed up to 100 feet of topsoil from the northern parts of the planet and dumped it over the central and southern regions - filling in valleys, and covering up many surface structures in the process. [] Similarly, there are hundreds of pointed "mounds - evident in various parts of Central Mexico where - after the indigent Indians moved away. The yearly dust storms began dumping sand on the area, and finally totally concealed the structures underneath. Those Mexican mounds now have several feet of blown sand covering them, and after hundreds (?) of years of vegetation to cover them. I suspect a similar history has befallen whatever lies beneath the surface material in the photo below. Thanks to John E. Combest, Inspection Engineer jecombest.nul UFOs Escorted by Aircraft David Smith writes, "It is often noted that Jets or helicopters are spotted flying after UFOs. - It just occurred to me while reading your Files that possibly those military assets are not chasing, but escorting them to be available in case something goes wrong and the UFO needs to put down. They can be protected from curious public humans! Thanks to David Smith Gaithersburg, MD Alabama Light Show with Blue Spheres GADSDEN - I was on my way home from work on December 1, 2005, at 6 PM, with my two year old son, and saw what seemed to be a triangle shaped light, close. When I pulled into the drive, my husband and brother met me asking, "Did you see the UFO?" I got out and looked, it was still there! Four adults and two children watched a spectacular show! Not only was there the large bright triangle shaped light, there were four white and blue sphere shaped balls jetting all around. The spheres looked as if they went through the bright triangle, and flew from side to side, up and down, racing and suddenly came to a dead stop. Aircraft also came around as if they were investigating the lights. One aircraft came close to the blue sphere, and the sphere looked as if it was taunting our aircraft. This went on for an hour, then the triangle light went off, but the spheres stayed at least thirty minutes. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ California Three UFOs SAN DIEGO, CORONADO - Christopher Montgomery writes, "The eyewitness reported a total of three UFOs which were the size of a very bright star on December 13, 2005." The rotating objects didn't make any sound. Three bright red points of light in an isosceles triangle appeared simultaneously in the sky. The three points rotated clockwise about 25 degrees each before one of the three points disappeared. The other two proceeded to become substantially brighter and move more quickly, moving closer together. They rotated 180 degrees around each other before the second point vanished. The final point lingered for some 30 seconds more before disappearing. Thanks to Christopher Montgomery www.Uforc.com AGOURA HILLS - On November 27, 2005, the witness noticed a bright light to the northwest at 6:30 PM, and found her car would not start. She grabbed her camera and took several photos because of its unusual brightness. The witness described the light as cigar shaped with an aura and she saw additional lights within. The witness used a Canon EOSD60 digital camera photos of the phenomenon two consecutive nights; at 5:38 PM, with three witnesses on the 28th. The light was moving slowly towards the north-northwest. You can view the photos taken by the witness at the following website: Thanks to Gloria Abrar http://www.bizouphoto.com/ufo.html Florida Triangle With Red Flashing Light Tampa - The witness spotted an isosceles triangle, flying high up in the sky on November 25, 2005, at 8:25 PM. There was one red flashing light at each triangle point. The sky was dark with stars visible through the triangle that moved across the sky in an arc. The triangle had a high pitched hum and disappeared after almost a minute. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Georgia Egg-Shaped Camouflaged Object Acworth - My 13 year old son was with a friend in the backyard at 5 pm, on December 1, 2005, on a cold clear day. My son noticed an egg-shaped object with two very bright yellow lights on both sides traveling east at a very fast rate of speed. The object was 'highlighter' blue with a grey trail of smoke or vapor trailing behind it. There was no noise, and a few seconds later the object suddenly disappeared, trail and all. Several minutes after this sighting, they saw a hamburger shaped sphere in the northern sky moving southwest. The object was just a slightly darker shade of blue than the sky, as if it were camouflaged. It had two white lights that were connected. The object moved at a slow rate of speed until it moved out of sight. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Illinois UFO Spaceship ELMHURST - The witness saw a disk with lights around it on November 25, 2005, at 8:25 PM. He states, "There was like a giant space inside the circle and it flew in circles for forty seconds, and it was gone. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Kansas Object Hovers and Retreats OVERLAND PARK - I was outside in my backyard at about 5:45 PM, on November 22, 2005, and I noticed a very strange object hovering over the tree lines at dusk for 55 minutes. It looked to be right over the backyard with glimmering lights that were flashing red, yellow, purple, blue, orange, green, pink, and white. At the beginning of the sighting there were no stars visible and it remained stationary for about 25 minutes. The object was silver colored and flew very quickly to the northwest and then several seconds later returned exactly to where it was prior. After a few minutes, it moved quickly forward and disappeared. I moved twenty-five feet up a slight hill and could see the object again. After a couple minutes the object retreated to the north. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Michigan Two Racers BURR OAK - I was walking home at around 10 PM, on November 28, 2005, looking for shooting stars when I saw a little flash. Two greenish blue objects were going in circles making loud clicking noises. Then, they started to race, and I started to run. Then, they stopped and flew right back towards the moon. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Montana Another Huge Light Reported St. Ignatius - On December 17, 2005, at 6:50 PM, I went outside with the dog and saw a huge glowing light at tree level about a mile away. I, then, ran inside to get my video camera. The light was huge at first in my viewfinder then, it receded. My hands were shaking a bit. As it rotated it receded at a gradual rate and disappeared after two minutes. I had the close-up button pressed all the way. This was a very large object until it completely faded out. This is not the first time I have seen these huge lights, but this is the first fade-out I caught on film. There are no structures on the ridge where the light hovered and then disappeared. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org New Jersey Lights Over the Ocean POINT PLEASANT - At about 8:30 PM, on November 24, 2005, Thanksgiving evening my family and I were at a neighbor's house when the lights dimmed, grew incredibly bright, and then went out completely and fifteen of us heard a massive explosion. Four of us ran out to the front porch to see bright neon blue smoke in the sky with electricity arcing over the blue hue about 1 1/2 block away. My mom who was standing next to me said, "Is that an ash floating over the smoke?" as she pointed to it. We all saw four bright white lights come through the smoke above the houses across the street from us. We could see four bright white round lights as bright as car headlights headed south over the ocean.. They were in a diamond shape, narrow in the middle, long on the ends - an elongated diamond. The explosion knocked all the power out in a 4-6 block radius and it was eerily silent. My mom and dad, and a good friend who is a NJ State Trooper saw the rear light moved forward and the diamond narrow. It slowed, passed behind a cloud, dimmed, and then slightly dipped as it sped off. The lights were in view a minute and a half. The lights came from the north heading south along the beach, stopped, and then sped off over the ocean. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Ohio Three Saucers with Purple Lights WESTERVILLE - I was stopped at a stop light on November 28, 2005, at 11:30 PM, when I happened to see three flying saucers zoom across the sky. I alerted my three companions in the car and they saw them too. In addition, there was some sort of eerie purple light coming off them. The whole incident lasted only about 15 seconds, if I would not have looked up, I would not have seen them. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Texas - Flying Triangle AUSTIN - The witness was taking his dog out back at 10:30 PM, when he saw a triangle shaped object in the sky on November 29, 2005. He states, "As this craft came closer, I noticed it was huge and covered up the moon, when it got directly overhead, I freaked out." On each side of the bottom of the object were long bars of lights and in the middle of the back of the triangle were two strobes, one red one very bright blue. The aircraft made a humming noise not like an air plane It was flying too slow for an airplane and 500 feet off the ground in a northeast direction. I watched it until I couldn't see it any more. Let me tell you the hairs on the back of my neck are standing up. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Virginia Silver Triangular Shape SANDSTON - My daughter picked me up at work on November 28, 2005, at 11:30 PM, and we saw this upside down metal looking shape in the sky just hovering over the top of the Seven Pines Exit in Sandston. It was a foggy night, but we did not see any lights on this triangular shaped silver craft. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Wisconsin - Five Brightly Lit Round Lights Genesee Depot - I was driving south on Highway 83 and just approaching town at 5:15 pm, on December 2, 2005, when I saw a very brightly lit object located beneath a star. It did not seem to move much and may have changed length slightly as I watched it turn? It consisted of five very bright yellowish lights that appeared to be circular in shape and in a perfect line, very close together. I thought that this could be the windows of an airplane if it were rather close (it seemed rather large) and if it had only a limited number of passenger windows. It was just starting to get dark though, the sky was well lit and overcast and the stars were just starting to show. The lights were far too bright for aircraft windows in a grey sky. The brightness of the lights indicated they might be exterior lights. They didn't strobe and were yellowish, no other lights were seen. We continued to drive towards town but the object disappeared, although it was large, seemingly near, and very brightly illuminated just seconds before. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Australia Three Lighted Spherical Ufos Melbourne - The witness observed a light suddenly appear in the sky (similar to a star) over the eastern suburbs of Melbourne at 10:35 PM, on November 20, 2005. The light was flickering silver, red, and blue moving very slowly in the sky. It was still in view thirty minutes later although position slightly higher in the sky. I noted a second similar flickering star. Through the binoculars, it appeared spherical in shape with three lights (silver, red and blue). Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Canada UFO as Large as a Locomotive Gregore Mills, Ontario - My sister had a sighting of huge lights in her nearby field at 6:45 PM, on December 14, 2005, across the side road that runs off Highway #11. She was sitting in the living room beside the sliding glass doors when she saw a bright light 150 feet across the road in a field that was used for a small plane. She stood up to see, and asked her husband what is that? She saw huge windows or lights as large as a locomotive with the bright glow of an oil lamp. The colors were beautiful, like gas swirling on water. The light was moving down the field and the height was about half way up the trees, very close. She said she could not believe what she was seeing. She said she counted, 1001, 1002, 1003 and it just blinked out. Since it wasn't quite a black night, the yard light was the only other light. This they use to keep wolves and bears away. Everything otherwise is not influenced by light pollution from anywhere. If you need to talk to her you can contact her through me. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org Fort St. John, BC - The observer took this still from a video he took last year. Video was taken on June 19, 2004 in British Columbia at around 2:30 PM. I was playing with a friend's camcorder trying to film some rods, but seemed to film something else instead. The camcorder was on a tripod at 65 degree up facing south and at 40 x zoom. The objects were traveling east to west without sound and slight to no wind. Ghost Lake, Alberta - At 4:30 AM, I was driving my husband to the airport on December 13, 2005, when we noticed just a few of these objects and as we drove on we saw more and more of them. I dropped my husband off at the airport and made my way back home, it still being dark. Half way home a huge blue ball of light fell and exploded, scared the heck out of me! There were too many of the white round objects to count. Thanks to Brian Vike http://www.hbccufo.org Mexico Youth Records UFO Over City Inexplicata reports: Ana Luisa Cid interviewed Sergio Javier Mayen , who recorded two UFOs over the capital's Torre Blanca district on October 21, 2005 at 18:26 hours. Sergio says, "I'm 16 and study at a vo-tech and want to be an architectural engineer. - I climbed on the roof to fetch my sister Melissa, who told me that there was a UFO in the sky. We both saw a red- colored sphere and I quickly got my camcorder to video. The red sphere had gone but I saw another spherical shining UFO at low altitude. Sergio: After recording the sphere and taking some photos, I realized an airliner was about to go by and I decided to widen the view so that this reference could appear. A second UFO appears later in the video. It moved very quickly on a rise toward the zenith. For that reason I was certain that it couldn't be an airplane or anything known. It was a spherical black object that had other smaller spheres around it, that were very luminous. The sighting lasted 3 1/2 minutes. The UFOs rose into the firmament much faster than an airplane. The video has a duration of 3 minutes and was taken with a Sony Handicam, Mini DV format, Model DCR-HC15. http://frankwarren.blogspot.com/2005/12/youth-records-ufo-over-mexico-city.h= tml Mexico City International Airport (MCIA) - "UFOs were seen once more over the International Airport at 11:30 AM, on November 23, 2005, when personnel from Centro Mexico observed a large, seemingly metallic spherical object. "The second sighting occurred on the 24th between 2 and 4 PM, when a fleet of several objects was detected at 12,000 meters altitude, according to Alfonso Salazar, an aviation technician. "Unofficially the 14:00 flight from Guadalajara, Jalisco to Mexico City reported seeing five objects as it approached the nation's capital. Thanks to Prof. Ana Luisa Cid www.analuisacid.com Diario La Prensa by Pablo Ch=C3=A1vez Republic of Palau Very Fast Circle Light KOROR - We were in the middle of the Pacific Ocean chasing turtles at sunset, on November 28, 2005, at 6:45 PM, as the sun set, a circle of light passed above us that was too fast for a standard aircraft. It took less than two minutes to cross from one end of the sky to the other end over the middle of the ocean. It crossed right above us and we could not hear a sound. If it was that fast and it was that close, we should have heard a sonic boom from it, but we did not. I hope some one else saw it too and reports it. Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ UK England Diamond Shaped Object Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire - The diamond shaped object was very large, 600-1,000 feet long and moved very slowly with a slight humming noise on November 29, 2005, at 8:05 PM. There where two smaller objects, one seemed to lead the diamond shaped object. The other smaller object came out of the larger object did a large circular movement around the diamond shaped object and went back into the larger shaped object. I took twenty-one photographs of the object, but the smaller objects did not appear on the photographs as apparently they where too small. In one of the photographs of the large diamond shaped object, there is an object I did not see visually. I had problems with my camera as it was low on battery power, and I had to switch the camera off then on again to take the photographs. The objects were distant and flew very slowly taking twenty minutes to go across the horizon, Thanks to Peter Davenport http://www.nuforc.com/ Filer's Files: Worldwide Reports of UFO Sightings Major George A. Filer USAF (Ret) & David E. Twichell are happy to announce the release of our new book. If you like Filer's Files newsletter and his monthly report in the MUFON Journal, you'll love the book! It is a collection of some of the most thought provoking UFO sighting and abduction reports from around the world by average citizens, trained observers, astronauts and U.S. presidents. This is a review of many of the best cases in the last several years. The book is $13.95 plus $3.05 tax & shipping Send check to address below or Paypal I NEED YOUR SUPPORT Dear Readers - Filer's Files has been brought to you free on a weekly basis for eight years. As of January 2006, I'm requesting a donation of 50 cents a week or $25 per year to enable me to continue with Filer's Files. These files cannot exist without your help. So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. George A. Filer has been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Holidays are the time to donate. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055. You can also go to: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, Master Charge,or American Express. REAL ESTATE Relocation Help! If your considering a move get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help you relocate, buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at: Majorstar @ aol.com Join MUFON! Become a MUFON member today! Benefits of membership include a subscription to the monthly UFO Journal which contains current investigations, sightings reports, articles by world-renowned researchers and more. To join now, click here. www.mufon.com Filer's Files is copyrighted 2005 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 22 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:02:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:45:32 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Chichikov >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:53:45 -0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:07:13 -0500 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >Hi Pavel >My direct answer to your question is "no", but I may have had >experiences that are indirectly relevant to your question. >I have had extremely vivid imagery in the moments after waking, >when self aware to the extent of realising that I have awoken >from sleep and knowing that what I am seeing is an >"hallucination" that will fade momentarily. This has occurred >occasionally many times since I was a child, sometimes in >persistent spells almost nightly for a period of weeks or more - > the last time about a year ago. >While in this state I have been able to study these images >quite carefully, or as carefully as you can in a couple of >seconds after waking - I should rather say I have studied them >deliberately, because they have this character of being >independent of my own thoughts and actions. For the very brief >time that they exist they appear objective. >Some other interesting things: >1) In all cases but one, the images have been created out of objects in the room, as though the process exploits materials available in the visual field rather than creating imagery entirely from the contents of the mind >2) In not one instance that I can recall has this imagery had >any connection with the contents a previous dream >3) In not one instance has this imagery ever had any ufological >content, or indeed any sort of very exotic content, although I >have been interested in UFOs and paranormal topics since >childhood. Hi Martin, I confess myself flummoxed by the whole experience. It certainly seemed real for that instant, and then did fade, but I have a strong impression that it was a visualization of a memory which was presenting itself before me, in present time, and which I was self-censoring and causing to vanish by an effort of will. I was in Moscow three times in 1991 while the Soviet Union was crumbling, and left there for the first time on the day the first Gulf War began. The day before I left I had a confrontation with someone over an extremely serious matter, and felt that I might very well be arrested and/or interrogated. I bribed my way onto an Aeroflot flight to Frankfurt. The first night at home I dreamed I was still in Moscow, and sat straight up in bed, yelling at the top of my voice. As soon as I realized it had been a nightmare, which was immediately, I felt great relief and settled back to sleep. In the case which I just mentioned to this list, I was on my feet and definitely awake when the event happened. It consisted of imagery which to my knowledge was literally alien to any experience I am aware of. Colloquially speaking, I didn't know I had it in me. I don't think this proves the objective reality of the experience. But if there is authentic confirmation from other
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Scientists Study 'Skinwalker Ranch' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:30:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:30:51 -0500 Subject: Scientists Study 'Skinwalker Ranch' Source: KLAS-TV - Las Vegas, Nevada http://www.klastv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4275629 Dec 21, 2005 Las Vegas Based Scientists Study 'Skinwalker Ranch' George Knapp Investigative Reporter A team of scientists based in Las Vegas has been conducting a study that may be different from anything that's ever been tried. The research is focused on a ranch in rural Utah where, for 50 years or more, paranormal activity has been reported, including UFOs, Bigfoot, mutilated animals and poltergeists. Some call the place Skinwalker Ranch, and George Knapp of the I- Team is the only journalist allowed to visit the property. Oil executive Gregory Todd is one of the hundreds, if not thousands of northeastern Utah residents who've seen weird objects - call them UFOs - over their homes in the past 50 years. The Utah basin has also been a hotbed of other strange activity including Bigfoot encounters and mutilated animals. In a basin known for an array of unexplained phenomena, the epicenter of high strangeness seems to be a picturesque spread known to many as Skinwalker Ranch. Native Americans who live near the property advise members to steer clear because, they say, this is the path of the skinwalker, an evil force. The last family to live on this spread lasted only 20 months. From the first day back in 1994, they were terrorized by an unseen intelligence that played mind games with them, shadowy figures inside their house, objects that moved on their own, disembodied voices and bad things happening to their animals beginning with cattle and bulls that disappeared and others that were carved up with surgical precision in broad daylight. A gigantic wolf that attacked one of their calves was tracked through the mud, but the tracks simply stopped as if the animal had evaporated into thin air. Three dogs were vaporized after while chasing blue orbs of light in a pasture. In 1995, the ranch came to the attention of NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science based in Las Vegas. NIDS bought the property and began an unprecedented scientific study. Observation posts were built. Video cameras were installed and operated. Scientific personnel and former lawmen were on the property 24-7 for 8 straight years. Dr. Colm Kelleher headed up the NIDS study. Dr. Colm Kelleher said, "We probably have, if you count all the pre-NIDS and post-NIDS incidents, close to 100 different incidents. If you look at all of them, the one thing that jumps out is how unreproducible they are." In other words, nothing ever happened the same. The scientists would spend all night out in the darkness and witnessed dozens of UFOs and odd balls of light. They also encountered large unknown animals, including ones that emerged from tunnels of light in the fields. Whatever it was proved elusive. The cameras that were installed atop telephone poles were attacked and dismantled, but whatever did it was invisible. Dr. Colm Kelleher said, "We checked the time stamps on this pole versus this pole. We looked at when the camera lost power and nothing was on the tape. There should have been something visible because the range of these things is pretty good." NIDS still owns the ranch, but it appears the phenomena have gone underground, as if weary of being hunted. As yet, the mystery of Skinwalker Ranch remains unsolved. Kelleher said, "If anything, it has created more questions that I had when I came into this thing." The ranch remains off limits to outsiders. Visitors - from this world anyway - are not welcome.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Ancient Martian Life & Religious Implications From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:39:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:39:04 -0500 Subject: Ancient Martian Life & Religious Implications Source: The American Association for the Advancement of Science Washington, DC. USA http://www.aaas.org/spp/dser/cosmos/perspectives/corbally.shtml February 1997 Dialogue on Science, Ethics, and Religion Cosmos Religious Implications From The Possibility Of Ancient Martian Life Christopher J. Corbally, S.J. Vatican Observatory University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721 ABSTRACT Reactions to the announcement by Dr. McKay and his collaborators that they had found evidence for primitive life in a meteorite from Mars have been intense. Some concerned the scientific evidence, some the implications of extraterrestrial life, especially if intelligent. Underlying these reactions are assumptions, or beliefs, which often have a religious grounding. The two divergent beliefs, for and against the plurality of life in the universe, are examined historically and through religious traditions, particularly the Judeo-Christian. This examination guides the formulation of the right relation between science and religion as one that respects the autonomy of each discipline, yet allows for each to be open to the discoveries of the other. Based on this relationship, perspectives from scientific exploration are developed that can help individuals to respect and cope with the new phenomena that science brings, whether these imply that we might be alone in the universe or co- creatures of God with the ancient Martians. I. Introduction Thanks to Dr. Chris Romanek and the rest of Dr. David McKay's team, last August and September were exciting months for "exo- scientists". People's reactions to the announcement of evidence for primitive life in a meteorite from Mars were intense, and the media rightly played to this public interest. Some reactions concerned the science; others concerned the implications, such as in this selection: No doubt there are moral and religious implications in this. (Rep. Jerry Lewis, chairman of the House Appropriations Committee for the NASA budget on National Public Radio) There is no proof yet, but if there were, then it would cause some sort of rethink. (Spokesman for the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland in The Boston Sunday Globe by Chet Raymo) Every time science reveals one of these little mysteries, it says to me there is a universal cosmic intelligence absolutely beyond my ken. (Rabbi David Goldstein in The Times-Picayune by Bruce Nolan) The news is fatally suspect because it rises out of a scientific view of physical processes contradicted by the Bible. (Rev. Rusty Tardo in The Times-Picayune by Bruce Nolan) These reactions are rather like surface features indicating a deeper question. For underlying them is the prime implication that I find coming from the announcement: the reactions point to our need for the right relationship, or dialogue, between science and religion. Six months after the announcement we have some increased perspective from which to understand this relationship and so of approaching the possibility of Martian and any other extraterrestrial life fruitfully. Frequently, though, our position on the possibility of life is driven by premises derived elsewhere than from science, particularly from philosophy and theology. In the following I shall speak mainly from my own Christian tradition. If your religious tradition is different, then please make due translation for yourself. Time does not allow me to speak in the many `languages' of religions today. II. Premise Driven Positions "Examine your premises" has nothing to do with the state of your house, but with uncovering your underlying assumptions. Steven Dick (1996, 12f) has convincingly made the point that where each of us comes down in the extraterrestrial life debate has its historical foundation in the two contrasting positions of Greek philosophers, particularly those from the fourth century B.C., the atomists and the Aristoteleans. There are infinite worlds both like and unlike this world of ours. For the atoms being infinite in number, as was already proved, are borne on far out into space. For those atoms which are of such nature that a world could be created by them or made by them, have not been used up either on one world or a limited number of worlds .... So that there nowhere exists an obstacle to the infinite number of worlds. (Epicurus, in Bailey 1926, 25) Either, therefore, the initial assumptions must be rejected, or there must be one center and one circumference; and given this latter fact, it follows from the same evidence and by the same compulsion, that the world must be unique. There cannot be several worlds. (Aristotle, in Guthrie 1953) Epicurus's philosophy of atomism (all matter is made up of microscopic atoms) leads to a plurality of worlds; Aristotle's philosophy of absolute natural place (each element -- earth, air, fire, water -- moves towards its natural place) leads to a uniqueness of the known world. Thus, two philosophical understandings of the nature of matter, plurality or uniqueness, lead to opposing perspectives on the universe. When Aristotle's thought was rediscovered in the Middle Ages, and particularly his rejection of many worlds in De caelo, his arguments were not uncritically accepted, even though these were not for the most part contrasted with the atomists' standpoint. The concepts of center, of void, and of natural motion became the objects of debate. Thomas Aquinas (1224-1274) approached the debate from the Aristotelian perspective, but his main concern seemed to be to show that a single world would not compromise God's omnipotence and that indeed, since perfection was to be found in unity, a single world would be more in accordance with God's perfection (Aquinas 1952). For a time then, perfection, the theological counterpart to Aristotle's uniqueness, rather than plenitude from the atomists, dominated scholastic thinking about God and the world. These were the foundations to the extraterrestrial life debate and its rediscovery in the thirteenth century. For sake of brevity, let us jump to the nineteenth century, when science was telling more about the universe, and to two figures who well illustrate the two main premises in action. First is the truly fascinating person, William Whewell, a prominent Cambridge theologian and scientist. Whewell was for many years a proponent of the plurality of worlds, but he changed his mind and attacked it in 1853. What seems to have happened, according to Michael Crowe (1986, 265ff), an historian at the University of Notre Dame, is that Whewell came to appreciate the full significance of the Copernican revolution that took humans from their place in the center of the universe and threw them out among the billions of stars. For Whewell, that change of perspective was an oppressive, desolate, and dark thought indeed. Further, it was a thought that raised the theological problem of reconciling these many worlds with the fact that God had intervened in human history in what seemed a unique way, through the incarnation and redemption of Christ. Now, Whewell was living in the days before current science had shown how finely tuned must the universe be to allow life and how actually its vastness is needed for any life to appear. Such fine-tuning is the basis of the Anthropic Principle (Polkinghorne 1995, 68ff) which, whether held in weaker or stronger forms, puts life as the reason for why the universe is as it is. (In deference to possible aliens and to avoid chauvinism, perhaps we should now call this the `Sapientic Principle'.) This Principle, in a theological context, can restore us to the center of God's scheme. The second nineteenth century figure is an astronomer who was not at all perturbed by the Copernican change in perspective. This was Angelo Secchi (1818-78), a Jesuit and a director of the Roman College Observatory. In 1856 he wrote: "it is with a sweet sentiment that man thinks of these worlds without number, where each star is a sun which, as minister of the divine bounty, distributes life and goodness to the other innumerable beings, blessed by the hand of the Omnipotent." (Secchi 1856, 158) Secchi conceded that these worlds may not be accessible to his telescopes, but by analogy with the earth and the solar system he was well persuaded that the universe is a wonderful organism, filled with life. So, even if Secchi's science failed him in proof, it fueled his sense of the limitless wonders of the universe. This open enthusiasm for plurality was remarkable in one so close to a usually cautious Vatican, but it will strike a chord in those of us who have enjoyed the myriads of stars on a dark night. In case anyone thinks that this is where history leaves us, with the debate settled in favor of the extraterrestrial, I would mention one friend with whom I have enjoyed many a luncheon. This is Dominic Caronna, who has recently published a book, Death of the Bible? The question mark at the end of the book's title is important, for Caronna by no means believes that the bible is dead. Instead, he believes that extraterrestrials are `dead', since he focuses on `the unicity of God' (his term for describing unity, completeness, and absoluteness in God) to show that it would be absurd for the events of the bible, particularly the incarnation and redemption, to be repeated elsewhere in the universe. Since Christ is unique, so must human beings be the only intelligent life in the entire universe. Caronna, given his premise, makes arguments that are clear and sound, as you would expect from a lawyer with a philosophical education. My role in the lunchtime meetings was to try and place a "reasonable doubt" within him that his scientific perspectives of the limitless universe (Caronna is one of the few people I know who have read through Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time) might actually be saying something about the Creator that would have to modify his understanding of `unicity'. We are still friends, despite the sleepless nights he claims that I gave him, and we meet regularly, so the contemporary debate continues -- as it perhaps does for you too. III. Proper Relationship between Science and Religion This brief historical review shows that philosophy and religion, working from their premises, cannot prove the existence of extraterrestrial life. However, history also shows that, where science fails to give enough evidence, premises such as plurality or uniqueness will fill any vacuum that is left. This is what happens when we work "at the limits" of science (Dick 1996, 7). There is nothing wrong in this; it is only dangerous when this happens unawares to us -- or to others. A powerful guard against this danger is to keep a proper relationship between science and other disciplines, particularly philosophy and theology in this case. A first step in this proper relationship is to recognize and preserve the limits of discourse within each discipline. For instance, science cannot address the reason why something exists rather than does not exist. Its methodology brings out processes among material things, not purpose and meaning. So, the words "creation of the universe" when spoken in scientific cosmology and when used in theology have to mean two different things: we should be clear whether we are talking about physical interactions or about the work of a non-physical, Prime Mover. This clarity is what Pope John Paul II had in mind when he wrote, "both religion and science must preserve their autonomy and distinctiveness" (John Paul II 1988, M8). Yet for dialogue between religion and science, a second step is necessary. Each discipline, while retaining its integrity must be "radically open to the discoveries and insights of the other" (John Paul II 1988, M9). An ancient example of such fruitful dialogue can be seen in the first chapters of Genesis, where the cosmologies of the Near Eastern world were purified and assimilated into conveying the truths of the relationship between Creator and created world (or even, worlds). Contemporary cosmologies are needed for a similar service today, just as evolutionary theory, recognized recently by Pope John Paul II as no longer just an hypothesis (1996), must also help. Right now it is the turn of exo-science to dialogue with religion, so that the two may be "radically open" to each other in thinking about the alien. IV. Approaching the Alien Some clearly approach the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life with fear and/or disbelief. H.G. Wells's book, The War of the Worlds, is an early and good illustration of this reaction (without accusing Wells of it himself). A current example will be found in the Focal Point article of this February's Sky and Telescope, where George Baldwin writes about "Keeping ET Away". The dominant premise behind such thinking is that of uniqueness, which in a religious guise leads one either to take the Bible or other revelation as literally true (unique or perfect in that sense), or to take doctrines as quite fixed in expression. Any disturbance of this world view is to be feared or dubbed as silliness. =46rom my science I prefer another approach, while recognizing that it is ultimately founded on the principle of plurality. This approach starts with the activity of exploration. Exploration is vital to progress in the physical sciences, for without curiosity in how things work there would have been no understanding of planets and stars and galaxies, and further, no significant progress in technology. Exploration is also needed in the `sciences' of theology and philosophy, so that the same urge to push back the boundaries of knowledge can bring new insights into traditional doctrines and questions. This exploration is what I do daily in my scientific research when examining the spectrum, or rainbow, from a star such as Vega. That spectrum is more than a band of colors: there are places of relative darkness where part of a color is missing, and these features characterize the star's physical conditions. When I look at a particular star's spectrum, I look at it as a specimen: I try and let that star be what it is, without forcing it into a classification category. It may end up being classified easily, and 95 per cent of stars fall readily into the Morgan-Keenan classification system (Osterbrock 1994), but I would loose potential insights if I jumped too readily to a classification for that spectrum. I find that my preferred way of doing science is synthetic, starting with observations, rather than analytic, starting with theory. So too, given an encounter with intelligent extraterrestrial life, I would want to examine the alien by letting `it' be what it is, without rushing for a classification category, not even presuming two genders. Similarly, I would want to let the alien be what it is theologically, without rushing for the baptismal water (after all, ammonia might be more appropriate!). Perhaps it is better to speak of letting the alien "reveal" what it is, since Christians speak of the essence of the Christ-event as the concentrated point of God's "self-revelation" to human kind (Peacocke 1993, 315). We find the Gospel of St. John appropriately using "Word", Logos in the Greek, to describe this divine self-communication. But while Christ is the First and the Last Word (the Alpha and the Omega) spoken to humanity, he is not necessarily the only word spoken to the whole universe. There is a challenge to both science and religion in such a synthetic or specimen-driven approach. This challenge is to provide us with the proper sense of self and the proper sense of God which will provide the right foundation for our exploration. For first, if we have a sense of our own worth, a God-given worth for the religious person that is supported by the wonderful processes that cosmic and biologic evolution relate, then we can be prepared for any outcome of our exploration. The finding that our universe is filled with other intelligent species would not give humanity a sense of insignificance or fear, but a sense of being an integral part of a cosmic community. We would discover a `church' beyond the confines of the Earth and of any narrow interpretations of the Bible. Alternately, if we find, as far as we can tell, that we on Earth are alone in the vast universe, this would not bring hubris but a sense of awe and responsibility. Secondly, the proper sense of God, derived in the dialogue between religion and science, is needed if we are to avoid making God in our own image. For then there would be nothing that exploration could reveal, except an inadequate view of ourselves. If instead we allow the echo of the Infinite Creator to be heard in the vastness of the universe that is shown through science, then we shall be open to those possibilities that God -- through the universe -- wants to reveal to us. This openness, as we have found from history, is one that tries to be aware of its premises. It is informed by past experience and a structured knowledge (or well-winnowed wisdom, as some would express it). What this correct partnership of the disciplines will give is the grounded openness by which we can respect and cope with any new phenomenon that science brings, whether this indicates we are in the end alone in the universe or are co- creatures with, say, the ancient Martians. =46rom this perspective I close by inviting you to enjoy the vision that Alice Meynell (1923) expressed in the last four verses of her "Christ in the Universe." No planet knows that this Our wayside planet, carrying land and wave, Love and life multiplied, and pain and bliss, Bears, as chief treasure, one forsaken grave. Nor, in our little day, May His devices with the heavens be guessed, His pilgrimage to tread the Milky Way, Or His bestowals there be manifest. But, in the eternities, Doubtless we shall compare together, hear A million alien Gospels, in what guise He trod the Pleiades, the Lyre, the Bear. O, be prepared, my soul! To read the inconceivable, to scan The million forms of God those stars unroll When, in our turn, we show to them a Man. References Aquinas, Thomas, edition of 1952: In Aristotelis libros de caelo et mundo, generatione et corruptione, meteorologicorum expositio, Rome, Lectio XIX, 94. Bailey, Cyril, ed. and trans. 1926: Epicurus: the Extant Remains, Oxford. Crowe, Michael J. 1986: The Extraterrestrial Life Debate 1750- 1900, Cambridge: CUP. Dick, Steven J. 1996: The Biological Universe, Cambridge: CUP. Guthrie, W.K.C., trans., 1953, of Aristotle's: On the Heavens, Cambridge, Mass.: Loeb Classical Library, bk 1, ch 8, 277a, lines 11-13. John Paul II, 1988: `Message' in Physics, Philosophy, and Theology: a Common Quest for Understanding, Eds. Russell, Stoeger, Coyne, Vatican: Vatican Observatory. John Paul II, 1996: `Message to Pontifical Academy of Sciences', in L'Osservatore Romano, 30 Oct 1996, Vatican. Meynell, Alice 1923: The Poems of Alice Meynell, New York. Osterbrock, Donald E. 1994: `Fifty Years Ago: Astronomy; Yerkes Observatory; Morgan, Keenan, Kellman', The MK Process at 50 Years: ..., San Francisco: A.S.P., 199-214. Peacocke, Arthur 1993: Theology for a Scientific Age: Being and Becoming -- Natural, Divine, and Human, Minneapolis: Fortress.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 3000 Alien-Related Knickknacks & Curios From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:46:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:46:10 -0500 Subject: 3000 Alien-Related Knickknacks & Curios Source: Mountain Xpress - Asheville, North Carolina, USA http://www.mountainx.com/news/2005/1221news.php Dec 21, 2005 Readers Xpress themselves <snip> Yeva, an Asheville-based artist whose artwork, poetry and music are all devoted to extraterrestrials, submitted a drawing of a bare, twisted tree with ornaments of many sizes nested in its branches. Inscribed upon the baubles are holiday wishes such as "universal health care," "human rights" and "impeachment." Aliens play beneath the branches as UFOs disappear into the horizon. "All my life has to do with ETs," says Yeva, whose collection of alien-themed knickknacks and curios may be the world's largest, with upward of 3,000 items. "I have always been a very skeptical person, but I believe very strongly in extraterrestrials, and I celebrate the truth," adds the artist. "I think that the earth is only a tiny cell within the body of the universe." Her work can be viewed on the Web (www.yevasuniverse.com). Visions of dancing snowmen, a giant menorah, a horse-drawn sleigh, a big heart encompassing all major world religions, and Oscar the "local cat" reading Mountain Xpress are just some examples of the kaleidoscope of contest entries. Of course, they couldn't all be winners =96 but you can still go and see them all up close, because they're on display in the children's section of Pack Memorial Library in Asheville. The artworks will be showcased now through Jan. 11. The library's hours are 10 a.m. to 8 p.m., Monday-Thursday; 10 a.m. to 6 p.m., Friday; 10 a.m. to 5 p.m., Saturday; and 2-5 p.m., Sunday. =96 Rebecca Bowe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 New Studies Question Mars Water Assumptions From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:49:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:49:02 -0500 Subject: New Studies Question Mars Water Assumptions Source: Space.Com - New York, New York, USA http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/051221_mars_dry.html 21 December 2005 New Studies Question Mars Water Assumptions By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer Editor's Note: This update includes the views of Mars Rover Principal Investigator Steven Squyres, who was not contacted prior to publication of the initial version of the article. The apparent discovery of ancient salty bodies of water on Mars by NASA's Opportunity rover last year is viewed as one of the most significant developments in planetary science. But two new studies take a different view of the data. Rather than abundant surface water over significant stretches of planet's history, as has been widely reported, Opportunity's observations might represent the results of a meteor impact or volcanic activity on an otherwise very dry world. The counter arguments, presented in two papers in the Dec. 22 issue of the journal Nature, go to the very heart of the ultimate question about Mars: Was it ever warm and wet enough to support life? The new reports, however, are based on the initial data from the Opportunity rover during its first 45 days on Mars. The Mars rover mission=92s Principal Investigator, Steven Squyres of Cornell University, said both of the new studies could not take into account more recent data from Opportunity that were not available to the researchers. Multiple explanations At Meridiani Planum, Opportunity found photographic evidence of layered sandstone that, when analyzed by chemical sensors, looked like it must have formed in the pryeesence of significant amounts of water. Today, Squyres told SPACE.com that his team's interpretation has always been that the water was mostly underground, sometimes seeping to the surface only to evaporate quickly. "From the start, the media has overemphasized surface water and underemphasized the underground water," he said. In one of the new reports, scientists conclude the deposits could be nothing more than volcanic ash altered by very small amounts of acidic water and sulfur dioxide, which is a volcanic gas. The research was done by Thomas McCollom and Brian Hynek of the University of Colorado at Boulder. "In our scenario, the water required to support the chemistry in this bedrock would only have had to have been around for months, years or perhaps as much as a few centuries," Hynek said today. "This is very different than previous scenarios, which require that a much larger amount of water be present for many millennia."' "This scenario does not require prolonged interaction with a standing body of surface water," the McCollom and Hynek write. The Meridiani region was probably more like volcanic parts of Yellowstone, Hawaii or Italy than something like the Great Salt Lake, McCollom said. "We think it was far less favorable for past biological activity than other scenarios that have been proposed." If McCollom and Hynek's scenario is correct, its effect would be in "greatly reducing the possibility that these rocks indicate that a habitable environment ever existed at Meridiani," according to Mark Bullock, a scientist at the Southwest Research Institute who was not involved in the studies. Or it could be =85 In the second paper, another group says an impacting space rock can explain the chemicals and layered deposits observed at Meridiani, as well as the infamous BB-sized spheres dubbed blueberries. In fact, write Paul Knauth of Arizona State University and colleagues, the blueberries are just too spherical and of uniform size to be explained by formation in water. Knauth's team proposes that the meteorite generated a "ground- hugging turbulent flow of rock fragments, salts, sulfides, brines and ice," leaving deposits that were later weathered by small amounts of water embedded in the grains. The scenario "can account for all of the features observed without invoking shallow seas, lakes or near-surface aquifers," the scientists contend. There is little doubt that Mars, in its early history, experienced bouts of intense flooding that involved water. The evidence is plainly carved into the planet's surface in the form of canyons bigger than any on Earth. But Bullock said those early episodes could have involved very sudden and short-lived floods spurred by ice melting in meteorite impacts that would have been frequent when the solar system was young. "Both groups propose scenarios that preclude the existence of significant bodies of water at the surface (at least at Meridiani), and therefore that Mars may never have had conditions conducive to life," said Bullock, who wrote an analysis of the work for Nature. "This conclusion stands in sharp contrast to the provocative interpretations that there must have been long-lived surface water to form the Meridiani outcrops." More Opportunity data Squyres said a deeper understanding of the situation came when Opportunity examined Endurance Crater, where observations were made of 25 vertical feet of rock outcrops. Those results were published just a month ago, after the two Nature papers had been submitted. Knauth, McCollom and Hynek "hadn't seen that stuff when they wrote their papers," Squyres said. The nature of the layering and grain sizes deeper inside Endurance Crater "is absolutely incompatible with a volcanic or impact origin," Squyres said. It is "completely compatible" with the idea of windblown material, and the upper meter or so "shows evidence for deposition of water. The chemistry varies with depth in a way that requires that subsurface liquid water interacted with the rocks after they were deposited." Squyres emphasized that his team has always thought the water was mostly underground, occasionally creating small surface lakes that evaporated quickly. Squyres also stressed that nobody has done anything other than good science with the data available. "It's always good to have alternative hypotheses," he said. "In the end, the best ideas win. It forces everybody to go back and sharpen their arguments. All of this is a good thing."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Studies Cast Doubt On Idea Of Life On Mars Studies From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:54:04 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:54:04 -0500 Subject: Studies Cast Doubt On Idea Of Life On Mars Studies Source: The Mercury News - San Jose, California, USA http://tinyurl.com/c5dvx Dec. 21, 2005 Studies Cast Doubt On Idea Of Life On Mars Alicia Chang Associated Press LOS ANGELES - Two new studies are challenging the notion that the desolate Martian plains once brimmed with salty pools of water that could have supported some form of life. Instead, the studies argue, the layered rock outcrops probed by NASA's robot rover Opportunity and interpreted as signs of ancient water could have been left by explosive volcanic ash or a meteorite impact eons ago. That would suggest a far more violent and dry history than proposed by the scientists operating Opportunity and its twin rover, Spirit, on the other side of the planet. The new scenarios, published in Thursday's journal Nature, paint a rather pessimistic view of whether the ancient Martian environment could have supported life. In 2004, the six-wheeled Opportunity parachuted to Mars three weeks after Spirit landed on the opposite side of the planet. Opportunity touched down on Endurance Crater in the Meridiani Planum region and began examining numerous rocks and minerals for geologic evidence of past water. After two months of surveying, scientists announced that chemical and geological clues gathered by the rover showed liquid water once coursed over the rocks and soils at that spot on Mars. Scientists suggested the rocks were deposited there by wind and water. But the new studies reached different conclusions from the same data. The sediment deposits appear to have formed from volcanic ash that reacted with small traces of acidic water and sulfur dioxide gas, said geochemist Thomas McCollom of the University of Colorado at Boulder. McCollom hesitated to say whether the Mars rover science team was incorrect, but rather, he said their interpretation was "less likely." "It's tough to put together a story to fit the geochemistry in the kind of scenario that they proposed," McCollom said. In a second paper, geologist Paul Knauth of Arizona State University proposed another alternative. The rock patterns studied by Opportunity suggest the deposits were produced by a sudden surge of rock fragments, salts and sulfides from a meteorite impact, Knauth said. In response, the Mars mission's principal investigator, Steven Squyres of Cornell University, said his team stands by its original interpretation. Squyres said Opportunity has since examined other layered outcrops that bolster their theory that the planet once was warm and wet. The solar-powered rovers, managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Mars Features Result Meteorites Not Lakes From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:00:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:00:21 -0500 Subject: Mars Features Result Meteorites Not Lakes Source: EurekAlert! - Washington, DC, USA http://tinyurl.com/apreh 21-Dec-2005 ASU Geologists Suggest Mars Features Are Result Of Meteorite Strikes, Not Of Evaporated Lakes Paul Knauth Geologic features at the Opportunity landing site on Mars were formed not by a lake that evaporated but by constant strikes from meteorites, say two Arizona State University geologists. The site where the Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity landed has sediments and layered structures that are thought to be formed by the evaporation of an acidic salty sea. The prevailing thought is that when this Martian sea existed it may have supported life forms and thus would be a prime site to explore for fossils. However, ASU geologists L. Paul Knauth and Donald Burt, who along with Kenneth Wohletz of Los Alamos National Laboratory, say that base surges resulting from massive explosions caused by meteorite strikes offer a simpler and more consistent explanation for the rock formations and sediment layers found at the Opportunity site. The researchers published their findings in the current issue of Nature. The research could impact where and how scientists continue their exploration of Mars in search for past life forms. Impact surges "present a simple alternative explanation involving deposition from a ground-hugging turbulent flow of rock fragments, salts, sulfides, brines and ice produced by a meteorite impact," the three state in their article "Impact Origin of Sediments at the Opportunity Landing Site on Mars." "Subsequent weathering by inter-granular water films can account for all of the features observed without invoking shallow seas, lakes or near surface aquifers," they added. "Layered sequences observed elsewhere on heavily cratered Mars and attributed to wind, water or volcanism may well have formed similarly." When the Opportunity lander touched down on the Meridiani Planum in January 2004, it began a very important period in planetary exploration. The rover has operated for nearly two years -- when it was designed to operate for 90 days -- and has returned many breathtaking images of the Martian surface, as well as measurements of the surrounding geologic features and chemistry. Researchers on the Mars Exploration Rover team feel these observations of this site point to an area once drenched in water, providing an environment that could have supported life. The body of water gradually evaporated away, due to the thin Mars atmosphere, leaving high concentrations of salt behind and several telltale mineral deposits and geologic formations. Because the observed signs point to an area that once was a lake, or large body of water, it would be a good choice to further explore the Meridiani Planum for fossils or other relics of previous life forms. But to Knauth, Burt and Wohletz the geologic features at the Opportunity landing site can also be explained as being artifacts of a meteorite strike rather than a one-time lakebed. "When a meteorite hits there is a tremendous blast, like a nuclear explosion," Knauth said. "On a planet with an atmosphere, around the base you get a turbulent ground-hugging cloud of debris that goes out and makes a sedimentary deposit. You get deposits that can go up to almost 100 kilometers from big volcanoes. A big [meteorite] impact can provide deposits over tens of thousands of square kilometers. "Mars is cratered from one end to the other. All of these should have made base surges," Knauth said. Upon examining the evidence, the researchers believe the sediments and structures at the Opportunity landing site are more likely caused by a base surge than an evaporated lake. Some of the questions concerning the observed sediments include a mixing of evaporative salts, textures of the sediments and the existence of small spheroid concretions at the landing site. "The mixed chemistry of the salts is all wrong at the Opportunity site," Burt said. "If it were a large lake that slowly evaporated, then the salt deposits would be more uniform going from least soluble (calcium sulfate, jarosite) to most soluble (halides and Magnesium-sulfate). "With evaporated deposits you would not get what you are seeing chemically or mineralogically on Mars," Burt added. "At the Mars site, they have their most soluble salts mixed with the least soluble salts. On Earth, the least soluble evaporates first (like a bathtub ring) and the most soluble last, but in this deposit it is a complete mix." The researchers explained that from orbital imagery it seems clear that Mars had a "warm-wet" interval very early in its history when there was water briefly on its surface. Most of the water escaped from the planet leaving behind brine that seeped into the rubble created from the early large meteorite impacts, the so-called "megaregolith." When the planet froze, salts formed in the subsurface along with ice and residual brine. All of this would then be "excavated," basically thrown all together in subsequent impact events, the researchers said. A specific sedimentary feature called festoon cross bedding, is one which scientists first examining the Mars evidence said was proof of flowing water in the area. Knauth, Burt and Wohletz said it also is a common structure resulting from base surges. Knauth uses illustrations from structures found in Kilbourne Hole, N.Mex., and compares them to images taken of Martian strata. While these features can be explained as being caused by flowing water, the researchers write: "Cross bedding and other sedimentary structures form in base surges as they slow down and allow suspended particles to be pushed along the surface and worked into layers and cross beds." "These features," Knauth said, "are quite common in base surges." In fact, such cross bedded sand deposits up to 1 meter think have been found at nuclear test sites in the Western U.S. and are common around volcanic blasts. Co-author Wohletz, an expert on base surges, proposed early on that cross bedded deposits should be common on Mars. One particularly interesting feature found at the Opportunity landing site are little spheroid like concretions, or globules, of material. Initially, scientists believed they were artifacts of water interacting with the ground as it moves through the rocks. But in order to make as many spheroids as they found, it would take large amounts of groundwater to be present and "these things need to grow within rock. We didn't see any evidence of this," said Knauth, who has been studying concretions on Earth for 35 years. "They were absolutely perfect little spheres," he said. "These turn out to be abundant in base surges. They form like little hailstones. They are the same shape, the same size and the same uniform distribution, which concretions don't have." Knauth explains that there is plenty of evidence of past water on Mars and that there is a fair likelihood that some forms of life may have existed on the Red Planet. But if the team's theory is correct, and the surface features of Meridiani Planum were caused by meteorite strikes and not a large lake, then the scientists need to be more creative in where they focus the next steps of their exploration for evidence of life forms, Knauth said. Knauth said clues may lie in Martian rocks. "If we know anything about Mars it is that it has been pounded unmercifully by meteorites," he added. "We just need to live with it and take advantage of it. Meteorites are excavators, they throw rock around all over the planet and I think some of those are juicy astrobiological targets." He said most every rock on Mars is cracked and if there was microbial life on the planet, microorganisms could be picked up by the wind and driven to different parts of the landscape. They eventually could lodge in the cracks of rocks and have calcium carbonate and other salts entomb them." He added that one of the meteorites from Mars has such carbonate in cracks and possibly contains evidence of past life. Cracks filled with the white material have been imaged repeatedly by the rovers on Mars, but the current instrumentation cannot analyze them. "If we want to find evidence of past life on Mars we need to look at these cracks," Knauth explained. "If there were microbes blowing around these rocks, they could settle and become entombed in these little fills. "Forget trying to find fossils in situ in apparent lake or ocean beds, that stuff probably is long gone, being pulverized by later impacts," he added. "Instead we may have to look at these
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 16:56:57 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:50:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - >From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:57:55 -0200 >Subject: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? >Hi to all. >Has anybody here seen and could comment on the US History channel's show 'Brazil's Roswell', about the secret investigation of UFOs in the Amazon by our military. The show started airing last Sunday. Hi Ademar, It was a spectacular production presented by the History Channel on their series UFO Files. A superb marathon including Mexico's Roswell, Britain's Roswell, Brazil's Roswell, Texas' Roswell and of course the Roswell Revisited. Brand new documentaries with a definitive pro-UFO position exposing the true facts on each documentary along with interviews and surprising recreations made with actors in the actual places, certainly an ambitious production Hollywood style. These are the spaces that we have been waiting from the tv networks with a fair exposition of the cases, objective research and an open mind to the phenomena. The chronicle of Operation Prato was impressive giving the accurate account of the 1977 incidents at the actual locations in Colares and recreating the shocking moments of the attacks by the beams of light. Important interviews with the people involved including the late Colonel Uyrange Bolivar Soares de Hollanda, commander of the Operation. A real story with bizarre consequences. The History Channel gave a lesson to the long time UFO detractor National Geographic who unable to debunk the mexican Air Force UFO case commited a fraud to the people presenting a hoaxed recreation of the flight positioning their airplane 150 kms. away of the actual site and over an oil plataform just to pretend this was the thing the FLIR camera filmed that day, an ominous lie that should live in infamy. The truth can not be distorted or ignored anymore.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 18:02:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:51:44 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details - Bourdais >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:12:29 EST >Subject: Re: 'Project Serpo' Mission Details >>Source: American Chronicle - Beverly Hills, California, USA >>http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=4246 >>December 16, 2005 >>'Project Serpo' Mission To Visitors' Home Planet Described In Detail >>By Steve Hammons ><drival snip> >We have yet and again another tale being wagged by unidentified >and unknown sources, allegedly working at DIA and otherwise. >Naturally their is no documentation forth coming from the >government, and the alleged principles that could verify this >have all died from radiation poisoning. >I predict those folks who like this story (tickles their ears) >will endlessly promote and defend it. No matter what >inconsistencys and problems float up they will rationalize them >all away, like many other story tellers of our time. >I see the tale wagging the dog yet and again one more time. And all reasonable people are going to sneer again.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:00:50 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:53:01 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Gehrman From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> To: ufoupdates.nul Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:48:30 -0800 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox > The lack of alien spacecraft implies that they cannot get here >(time, distance, scarcity of alien technological civilizations > Since they can't get here, nobody has really seen them. >Since nobody has seen a genuine UFO, this means they can't be >coming here. Hi Larry, List, There is overwhelming evidence that we are being visited by intelligent "others". But must they originate from other solar systems? The main reason that the scientific establishment rejects visitation is their insistence that star travel is impossible. Perhaps the intelligence agency that's responsible for squelching discussion on the nature and genesis of the "other" is playing a double game by debunking UFO while planting false
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Lee From: Regan Lee <rlee15.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:28:33 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:56:00 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Lee >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:53:45 -0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:07:13 -0500 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:35:34 EST >>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:28:55 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>>Has anyone reading this ever had a visualization of a brief >>>>bit of an abduction experience while awake, but just after >>>>waking at night? Something in the nature of an extremely >>>>vivid flashback. ><snip> >Some other interesting things: >1) In all cases but one, the images have been created out of >objects in the room, as though the process exploits materials >available in the visual field rather than creating imagery >entirely from the contents of the mind >2) In not one instance that I can recall has this imagery had >any connection with the contents a previous dream >3) In not one instance has this imagery ever had any ufological >content, or indeed any sort of very exotic content, although I >have been interested in UFOs and paranormal topics since >childhood. >I'd be interested to know if these are common characteristics in >other people's experience. I've wondered how it is that, in my case, I've had several UFO sightings (some I am quite sure have mundane explanations, a couple that were highly strange,) two episodes of missing time (involving UFOs) - with another witness - and I was out of bed and wide awake in all cases. I've had a vivid dream life, and sleep paralysis episodes my entire life. These continue to occur. While those are always odd, I've never once seen an alien, a UFO, or any other kind of paranormal "thing", nor have I ever thought I was being abducted during any of these sleep episodes. I also have been intensely interested in UFOs, and the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: 2005 UFO Sightings Russian Wrap-Up - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:30:46 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:02:34 -0500 Subject: Re: 2005 UFO Sightings Russian Wrap-Up - Maccabee >Source: MosNews.Com - Moscow, Russia >http://www.mosnews.com/column/2005/12/15/ufoslist.shtml >2005 UFO Sightings Russian Wrap-Up >19.12.2005 >Komsomolskaya Pravda >Russian intelligence agencies have repeatedly stated that no >UFOs have ever been spotted over Russian territory. However, >witnesses from the general public continue to contradict these >reports with stories of their personal encounters with the >paranormal. >Moscow newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda has put together the most >reliable of these reports and come up with a list of UFO >sightings in Russia and other post-Soviet countries for 2005. >Crop Circles >This year 18 cases of crop circles have been reported in >Russias regions this is six cases more than last year and >almost twice the number for 2003. <snip> >A local farmer conducted an experiment on Sept., 7. When the >balls appeared in the dark sky, Yuri Galayev took his torch and >signaled to one of the balls, turning the torch on and off. The >ball responded immediately with identical signals. >The next morning when the Galayevs went to their watermelons >field they noticed a weird pattern on one of the watermelons. >They remembered the day before the pattern had not been there, >and came to the conclusion it was a note from their night >visitors. >The watermelon was taken to a well-known Primorye biologist and >ufologist Valery Dvuzhilny. >"I studied the fruit, both the healthy and the impacted tissue," >Dvuzhilny said. >"This could not be done by insects, bacteria nor by some fungi >none of these could produce such a symmetrical pattern." >The patterned watermelon is not an isolated case in the region. >In September 2002 two watermelons with complicated pictograms on >them were found in the field of farmer Nikolai Schislyayev. Hmmmm... for years we have had "agriglyphs" (pictures in agrcultural crops, commonly but quite inaccurately called "Crop Circles"). Now we have a particular class of "fruitoglyphs", in this case "meloglyphs". I wonder if anyone has found carvings on vegetables -
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Sparks From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:15:58 EST Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:06:16 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Sparks >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:53:45 -0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:07:13 -0500 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:35:34 EST >>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:28:55 -0500 >>>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>>Has anyone reading this ever had a visualization of a brief >>>>bit of an abduction experience while awake, but just after >>>>waking at night? Something in the nature of an extremely vivid >>>>flashback. >My direct answer to your question is "no", but I may have had >experiences that are indirectly relevant to your question. >I have had extremely vivid imagery in the moments after waking, >when self aware to the extent of realising that I have awoken >from sleep and knowing that what I am seeing is an >"hallucination" that will fade momentarily. This has occurred >occasionally many times since I was a child, sometimes in >persistent spells almost nightly for a period of weeks or more - >the last time about a year ago. >While in this state I have been able to study these images quite >carefully, or as carefully as you can in a couple of seconds >after waking - I should rather say I have studied them >deliberately, because they have this character of being >independent of my own thoughts and actions. For the very brief >time that they exist they appear objective. >Some other interesting things: >1) In all cases but one, the images have been created out of >objects in the room, as though the process exploits materials >available in the visual field rather than creating imagery >entirely from the contents of the mind >2) In not one instance that I can recall has this imagery had >any connection with the contents a previous dream >3) In not one instance has this imagery ever had any ufological >content, or indeed any sort of very exotic content, although I >have been interested in UFOs and paranormal topics since >childhood. >I'd be interested to know if these are common characteristics in >other people's experience. Very interesting Martin. At last we have a way to partially investigate the phenoemenon on the list. Can you comment more on the time duration of each instance of your hypnopompic imagery? You mentioned "a couple seconds" but I wanted to get direct comment from you. Was there ever an instance of such imagery that seemed to last for minutes or hours? What time of day (night) did these occur? Did you experience paralysis? Did you ever "float" into the air (a common feature reported by sleep paralysis experiencers due to loss of motor control)? What was the one instance where the imagery did not form out of objects in the room? And, of course, you never seemed to be "abducted" by anybody or any entity otherwise I'm sure you would have mentioned that. Did you ever have an imagery that told a complete story, like an abduction, being carried on board a ship, having experiences on board the ship, then being returned? Or was it always fragmentary and momentary? Did you ever see any "entities"? Did you ever see the Devil or any demons? Ever get taken to a supernatural or otherworldly place like a heaven or hell and get
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: Stalin Ordered Human/Ape Bred Super Soldiers - From: Bill Weber <wweber1.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:23:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:09:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Stalin Ordered Human/Ape Bred Super Soldiers - >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:32:15 -0500 >Subject: Re: Stalin Ordered Human/Ape Bred Super Soldiers >>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:29:57 EST >>Subject: Stalin Ordered Human/Ape Bred Super Soldiers <snip> >>This is one experiment. As the files in Russia open up as well >>as the espionage files on them, I'm wondering how many clashes >>with official and unofficial proclamations on UFOs/Saucers are >>there awaiting the light of day. >As someone who knows a bit about the country, its history and >the people, this strikes me as plain and simple BS, from >the keyboard of a satirist. >If Stalin were to order a geneticist to do anything of the sort, >it would have been to create magnificent but brainless >Communists, fully human but without the ability to disobey >Stalin. Hi, Guys, America went with the same plan, but because of the setbacks in education caused by No Child Left Behind, the best we could muster was a blood-thirsty yet cowardly Chimp who immediately went AWOL from his National Guard unit. So much for our plans of Human/Ape Super-Warriors.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Dickenson From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 00:40:32 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:14:54 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Dickenson >From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:53:45 -0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' <snip> >I have had extremely vivid imagery in the moments after waking, >when self aware to the extent of realising that I have awoken >from sleep and knowing that what I am seeing is an >"hallucination" that will fade momentarily. This has occurred >occasionally many times since I was a child, sometimes in >persistent spells almost nightly for a period of weeks or more - >the last time about a year ago. >While in this state I have been able to study these images quite >carefully, or as carefully as you can in a couple of seconds >after waking - I should rather say I have studied them >deliberately, because they have this character of being >independent of my own thoughts and actions. For the very brief >time that they exist they appear objective. >Some other interesting things: >1) In all cases but one, the images have been created out of >objects in the room, as though the process exploits materials >available in the visual field rather than creating imagery >entirely from the contents of the mind >2) In not one instance that I can recall has this imagery had >any connection with the contents a previous dream >3) In not one instance has this imagery ever had any ufological >content, or indeed any sort of very exotic content, although I >have been interested in UFOs and paranormal topics since >childhood. >I'd be interested to know if these are common characteristics in >other people's experience. Hello Martin, Based on subjective experience would think that most people experience those "instant" hallucinations without realizing it - but am not sure whether it happens at instant of temporary sleep or awakening - but am sure they use whatever materials/data are available at that instant (of sleep or wakening), so that each is "unique". In recent years mostly work on physical stuff, written reports, recall of associated events, or study of - or own construction of - web-based reports. And have noticed that when cat-napping or reading before sleep, a rehash of last paragraph read can be created which may be wildly different from reality, even if book is still open in front of me - have to re-read and 'edit'. That's a case of 'same media' dreaming, but crossover happens. While reading a book, in bed, yesterday, got to para on composition of the Sun - or a star - dropped off and 'saw' a web-page being coded on 'Suns' and their (HTML? coded) composition, even 'heard' a peculiarly significant sentence (aren't they all?) talking of composition of "Suns". That would seem to be three 'media' of consciousness conspiring to create one illusion - but all centered on something I was already considering. So average person might not notice an hallucination - which just vaguely distorted something he wasn't really thinking hard about anyway? Mind you, in a suggestible (or strong-minded/obsessive?) person, that might explain some "damoscene" conversions? Cheers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Chronology Deadline Needed From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:56:54 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:16:40 -0500 Subject: Chronology Deadline Needed Greetings, As some of you know, I've been working on a chronology for considerably over two years (working title - "A chronology of frequently discussed UFO and SETI related events (from 1877- 2005)"). When I started the Chronology, I had in mind producing a working document about 20-30 pages long. It became much longer than that within a few weeks and has since grown like The Blob. I had hoped to circulate it by Christmas 2004 as a little present to fellow members of this List. However, I felt that a lot of work remained to be done. In the last few months, I've been optimistic about completing a draft for circulation this Christmas (2005). Unfortunately, I've kept acquiring more books and material which needed to be referred to in the Chronology and I've had a number of ideas requiring revisions and additional tasks. Plus, of course, there is the little matter of having to work up to 20 hours a day in the office (and having a pregnant wife). In short, I will not be circulating a draft by this Christmas either. This cannot go on much longer. Preparing the Chronology became a tedious affair long ago and I have other much more interesting projects I want to concentrate on. Having in mind "targets" for completion has been insufficient motivation to complete the document. So, I need a deadline. (I know from experience with work the effect of having a deadline known to others.) I'm therefore publically committing myself to a deadline for posting a link to a draft of the complete document on UFO UpDates, arbitrarily set as midnight on Sunday 22 January 2005. This delay does not mean that you'll be getting an alternative Christmas present from me!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 UFOData News From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 13:31:07 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:18:37 -0500 Subject: UFOData News Dear all. Just when thing seemed a little quiet we appear to heading for a 'mini flap'. Two days on the trot sightings have been reported in the Northwest of England and there is also a very interesting report from Mexico. Interesting because the object photographed bears a striking resemblance to what has been considered the best daylight image ever filmed. Both articles are up on the website so take a look. Christmas is almost upon us I know it's a busy time for all but the clear cold nights make for some great skywatching. Fill the flask put on the thermals and get out there. If we are experiencing a flap of sightings we need to be out there armed with cameras etc. Sadly it has been announced that Walter Haut passed away recently, he was 83. Walter was the press officer who released details of the 'Roswell recovery' in 1947 to the local media, the rest is history. We have a tribute to Walter on our Talk UFO Radio show which is also available as an MP3 download from the front page of the website. Don't forget to visit the online store where we have an ever growing selection of e books for download at very reasonable prices. Enjoy the website and the holidays. Speak soon
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: Ancient Martian Life & Religious Implications From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:12:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:18:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Ancient Martian Life & Religious Implications >Source: The American Association for the Advancement of Science > Washington, DC. USA >http://www.aaas.org/spp/dser/cosmos/perspectives/corbally.shtml >February 1997 >Dialogue on Science, Ethics, and Religion >Cosmos >Religious Implications From The Possibility Of Ancient Martian Life >Christopher J. Corbally, S.J. >Vatican Observatory >University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721 >ABSTRACT >Reactions to the announcement by Dr. McKay and his >collaborators that they had found evidence for primitive life in >a meteorite from Mars have been intense. Some concerned the >scientific evidence, some the implications of extraterrestrial >life, especially if intelligent. Underlying these reactions are >assumptions, or beliefs, which often have a religious grounding. >The two divergent beliefs, for and against the plurality of life >in the universe, are examined historically and through religious >traditions, particularly the Judeo-Christian. This examination >guides the formulation of the right relation between science and >religion as one that respects the autonomy of each discipline, >yet allows for each to be open to the discoveries of the other. >Based on this relationship, perspectives from scientific >exploration are developed that can help individuals to respect >and cope with the new phenomena that science brings, whether >these imply that we might be alone in the universe or co- >creatures of God with the ancient Martians. <snip> This is fascinating, at least to me, and I'm going to read it carefully. Just a word of caution: There seems to be an impression on the part of non-Catholics that commentaries written by priests or other religious persons are official or semi-official pronouncements by and for the Catholic Church. However, if the source is not an official body at the Vatican, or the Pope, the person speaking, in most cases, is speaking only for himself.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:14:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:24:26 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Friedman >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:00:50 -0800 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:48:30 -0800 >>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>The lack of alien spacecraft implies that they cannot get here >>(time, distance, scarcity of alien technological civilizations >>Since they can't get here, nobody has really seen them. >>Since nobody has seen a genuine UFO, this means they can't be >>coming here. >Hi Larry, List, >There is overwhelming evidence that we are being visited by >intelligent "others". But must they originate from other solar >systems? The main reason that the scientific establishment >rejects visitation is their insistence that star travel is >impossible. >Perhaps the intelligence agency that's responsible for >squelching discussion on the nature and genesis of the "other" >is playing a double game by debunking UFO while planting false >information encouraging belief in the ETH and alien >civilizations from other star systems. Just what people make up the "scientific community"? The ancient academics and fossilized physicists who have for ages been making false claims of impossibility for all sorts of activity such as airplane and rocket flights etc? Here we go again with the completely false claim that star travel is impossible. Sure it is, if one has to depend on bicycles or skateboards or chemical rockets. But one need not so depend. Repeating myself, it only takes one year at 1G acceleration to get close to the speed of light. Fusion, for example, provides particles having 10 millions times as much energy per particle as in a chemical rocket. The fuel --isotopes of hydrogen and helium, the lightest and most abundant substances in the universe. One, of course, would use as much cosmic freeloading as possible and take advantage of Einstein's time dilation as one approaches the speed of light. The gravitational fields of various heavenly bodies are available free..we use them all the time on our deep space missions. Obviously I won't rule out the space warping etc featured in the outstanding JBIS article by Maccabee, Haisch, et al. Obviously one could and should make the point that the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: Chronology Deadline Needed - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:19:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:26:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Chronology Deadline Needed - Friedman >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:56:54 -0000 >Subject: Chronology Deadline Needed >Greetings, >As some of you know, I've been working on a chronology for >considerably over two years (working title - "A chronology of >frequently discussed UFO and SETI related events (from 1877- >2005)"). >When I started the Chronology, I had in mind producing a working >document about 20-30 pages long. It became much longer than that >within a few weeks and has since grown like The Blob. >I had hoped to circulate it by Christmas 2004 as a little >present to fellow members of this List. However, I felt that a >lot of work remained to be done. >In the last few months, I've been optimistic about completing a >draft for circulation this Christmas (2005). Unfortunately, I've >kept acquiring more books and material which needed to be >referred to in the Chronology and I've had a number of ideas >requiring revisions and additional tasks. Plus, of course, there >is the little matter of having to work up to 20 hours a day in >the office (and having a pregnant wife). >In short, I will not be circulating a draft by this Christmas >either. >This cannot go on much longer. Preparing the Chronology became a >tedious affair long ago and I have other much more interesting >projects I want to concentrate on. >Having in mind "targets" for completion has been insufficient >motivation to complete the document. So, I need a deadline. (I >know from experience with work the effect of having a deadline >known to others.) >I'm therefore publically committing myself to a deadline for >posting a link to a draft of the complete document on UFO >UpDates, arbitrarily set as midnight on Sunday 22 January 2005. >This delay does not mean that you'll be getting an alternative >Christmas present from me! >Kind Regards and a Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 A Season's Post From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:44:03 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:28:09 -0500 Subject: A Season's Post Greetings to the Listarians and Lurkers, I've learned many things this year... even when some have said Ufology was as dead as ol' Jacob Marley, these many years. Their bleating was blogged till the cows came home with ulcers; utters dry and cracked; Milk sour from the stampede. Quietly. Ever so quietly has the research continued, regardless of the bleating flocks and exo-bs-political flashlight party breakouts around the trough. Under the Tannenbaum the Pagans place their gifts. Ufology wrapped in pretty paper and sparkling ribbons. Plum pudding for this night and the nights yet to come. Perched atop, like a beacon, is the perpetual question. Ignored by most for the fancy gifts below it. Across the starry night the blind continue to watch and listen, unabated. Agog with the wonderment of the original thought, minus those pesky phantoms, which frighten them. Deep in the quiet of the enigma rages the silent denial. Research is coming. There's dancing tonight! Research is coming. Their sails are in sight! Happy Holidays to Each and Everyone!
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: New Studies Question Mars Water Assumptions - From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:05:30 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:31:11 -0500 Subject: Re: New Studies Question Mars Water Assumptions - >Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:49:02 -0500 >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Subject: UFO UpDate: New Studies Question Mars Water Assumptions >Source: Space.Com - New York, New York, USA >http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/051221_mars_dry.html >21 December 2005 >New Studies Question Mars Water Assumptions >By Robert Roy Britt >Senior Science Writer >Editor's Note: This update includes the views of Mars Rover >Principal Investigator Steven Squyres, who was not contacted >prior to publication of the initial version of the article. <snip> Regarding this and the other related articles posted here today, Steve Squyres has already responded to this news (Space.com article). As he points out, the new CU scenarios used _old_ MER data (from only the first 45 days of the mission), while most of the newest information from Opportunity was not even available to the researchers: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/051221_mars_dry.html In another article (Rocky Mountain News), he referred to the conclusions as "misguided and uninformed." The CU teams are making far-reaching conclusions based on very limited data, and as anyone who has followed these missions in detail knows, much more evidence has been found by Opportunity regarding past liquid water aquifers and salt lakes/playas at Meridiani, as the MER team itself announced a few weeks ago (the updated findings). The MER scenario has changed from larger lakes or seas to the aquifers and playas, but still involving large amounts of water which did come to the surface periodically. Albeit, this water was highly salty and acidic. Regardless though of whether the CU teams are correct or not regarding the origin of the acidic sulphate deposits in these scenarios, the earlier clay deposits are still another matter entirely... these new theories must be viewed in context of the new Mars Express findings of the phyllosilicates / clay minerals in global deposits announced earlier this month, which usually require longer- lasting and non-acidic water to form (and have been underreported to some extent in some recent science media, while the acidic sulphate findings have had much more coverage), even if they were limited to very early in Mars' history as appears to be the case. New abstracts also outline similar clay minerals apparently found on Husband Hill by Spirit. Good coverage here: http://tinyurl.com/daogm http://tinyurl.com/aehg4 http://tinyurl.com/74wzw http://tinyurl.com/7ad9m http://tinyurl.com/8qbxx http://tinyurl.com/9hbg8 http://tinyurl.com/dtsov http://tinyurl.com/dv7td To note though, they can, however, also form in shorter time periods in hydrothermal or even acidic conditions (ie. as found in Yellowstone). While many seem to be accepting these new reports as the final word (various media articles), that is far from the case when all of the current evidence is taken into account. See also 'The Great Meridiani Debate' and other related posts on my blog for more links and information. Addendum: As I was writing this, I received an interesting e-mail from Tom McCollom at Colorado University, one of the authors of one of the new research papers in question. Quote: "First, we considered in our our article all of the chemical compositional data that have been published to date. The chemical compositions on which the more recent interpretations mentioned by Steve Squyres are based have not been published, and the MER team refused us access to these data when we requested. However, based on what we have seen in recent publications and information presented at conferences, there is nothing in these new data that would be inconsistent with our volcanic scenario, contrary to the claims that Squyres has made in the mass media. We intend to demonstrate this as soon as the data are made available to the broader scientific community." This will be a long debate...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 23 Re: Moon UFOs & LTPs - Balaskas From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:40:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:32:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Moon UFOs & LTPs - Balaskas >From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:17:33 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >Subject: Re: Moon UFOs & LTPs >>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:56:09 +0000 (GMT) >>Subject: Moon UFOs & LTPs >>Remember those old white blob moving UFO's on or near the Moon >>and the flash's of light etc seen through telescopes? Well here >>they are fully explained for you by recent NASA back research of >>data from instruments left there in the late 1960/70's; <snip> >>http://tinyurl.com/c42fc >>Will the debunkers debunk this explanation? <snip> >More recently, independent observers using telescopes have noted >the same bright flashes on the dark side of the Moon during >meteor showers. These TLPs can easily be explained as the light >energy given off during the impact of fast moving meteoroids >with the Moon. <snip> NASA Headline News An Explosion on the Moon 12.23.2005 http://tinyurl.com/9jrgm So you thought nothing ever happens on the moon? December 23, 2005: NASA scientists have observed an explosion on the moon. The blast, equal in energy to about 70 kg of TNT, occurred near the edge of Mare Imbrium (the Sea of Rains) on Nov. 7, 2005, when a 12-centimeter-wide meteoroid slammed into the ground traveling 27 km/s. "What a surprise," says Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC) researcher Rob Suggs, who recorded the impact's flash. He and colleague Wes Swift were testing a new telescope and video camera they assembled to monitor the moon for meteor strikes. On their first night out, "we caught one," says Suggs. The object that hit the moon was "probably a Taurid," says MSFC meteor expert Bill Cooke. In other words, it was part of the same meteor shower that peppered Earth with fireballs in late October and early November 2005. (See "Fireball Sightings" from Science.nul) The moon was peppered, too, but unlike Earth, the moon has no atmosphere to intercept meteoroids and turn them into harmless streaks of light. On the moon, meteoroids hit the ground--and explode. "The flash we saw," says Suggs, "was about as bright as a 7th magnitude star." That's two and a half times dimmer than the faintest star a person can see with their unaided eye, but it was an easy catch for the group's 10-inch telescope. Cooke estimates that the impact gouged a crater in the moon's surface "about 3 meters wide and 0.4 meters deep." As moon craters go, that's small. "Even the Hubble Space Telescope couldn't see it," notes Cooke. The moon is 384,400 km away. At that distance, the smallest things Hubble can distinguish are about 60 meters wide. This isn't the first time meteoroids have been seen hitting the moon. During the Leonid meteor storms of 1999 and 2001, amateur and professional astronomers witnessed at least half-a-dozen flashes ranging in brightness from 7th to 3rd magnitude. Many of the explosions were photographed simultaneously by widely separated observers. Since the Leonids of 2001, astronomers have not spent much time hunting for lunar meteors. "It's gone out of fashion," says Suggs. But with NASA planning to return to the moon by 2018, he says, it's time to start watching again. There are many questions that need answering: "How often do big meteoroids strike the moon? Does this happen only during meteor showers like the Leonids and Taurids? Or can we expect strikes throughout the year from 'sporadic meteors?'" asks Suggs. Explorers on the moon are going to want to know. "The chance of an astronaut being directly hit by a big meteoroid is miniscule," says Cooke. Although, he allows, the odds are not well known "because we haven't done enough observing to gather the data we need to calculate the odds." Furthermore, while the danger of a direct hit is almost nil for an individual astronaut, it might add up to something appreciable for an entire lunar outpost. Of greater concern, believes Suggs, is the spray=97"the secondary meteoroids produced by the blast." No one knows how far the spray reaches and exactly what form it takes. Also, ground-shaking impacts could kick up moondust, possibly over a wide area. Moondust is electrostatically charged and notoriously clingy. (See "Mesmerized by Moondust" from Science.nul) Even a small amount of moondust can be a great nuisance: it gets into spacesuit joints and seals, clings to faceplates, and even makes the air smell when it is tramped indoors by moonwalkers. Could meteoroid impacts be a source of lunar "dust storms?" Another question for the future.... Suggs and his team plan to make more observations. "We're contemplating a long-term monitoring program active not only during major meteor showers, but also at times in between. We need to develop software to find these flashes automatically,"
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 15th Annual International UFO Congress Info From: UFO Congress Staff <nicole.nul> Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:52:53 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 09:52:19 -0500 Subject: 15th Annual International UFO Congress Info 15th Annual International UFO Congress Convention & Film Festival February 26 - March 4, 2006 Flamingo Laughlin 1900 S. Casino Dr. Laughlin, NV 89029 February 26 - March 4, 2006 Register by January 21, 2006 for early registration discount! We are ready now to start accepting registrations for our next event! Check our website for complete details www.ufocongress.com. Register online at www.ufocongressstore.com Download Brochure with Schedule and Registration Forms Confirmed Speaker as of December 16, 2005 Wendelle Stevens Michael Horn Christian Frehner (Switzerland) Michael Cremo William A. Tiller, Ph.D Philip Mantle (U.K.) Colin Andrews Scott Ramsey Paul Davids Ryan Wood Maurizio Baiata (Italy) Greg Bishop Jorge Martin (Puerto Rico) George Knapp Budd Hopkins & Dr. David Jacobs Peter Robins A.J. Gevaerd (Brazil) Jaime Maussan (Mexico) Bill Ryan (U.K.) Geoff Stray (U.K.) Haktan Akdogan (Turkey) Helen Littrell Jean Bilodeaux Mark Kimmel Barbara Lamb Robert Cook Don Ledger You can download the entire brochure with registration forms at www.ufocongress.com/brochure.pdf Register for this Event NOW! NEW Online Store Now you can order online... Videos & DVDs MUFON Videos & DVDs Books NEW This Year! Online Registration You can now register online for the following options: Full Registration - both Single and Double Occupancy Individual Lectures Hotel Nights - if you are not booking Full Package. Upgraded River View Rooms (at additional cost) Register Online Today! International UFO Congress 6160 Firestone Blvd #104-373 Firestone, CO 80504 303-651-7136 nicole.nul http://www.ufocongressstore.com After you register you will be mailed a confirmation of your registration. Please bring this confirmation with you to help expedite checking in.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Shough From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:39:47 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 09:55:23 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Shough >From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 17:15:58 EST >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:53:45 -0000 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' <snip> >>While in this state I have been able to study these images quite >>carefully, or as carefully as you can in a couple of seconds >>after waking - I should rather say I have studied them >>deliberately, because they have this character of being >>independent of my own thoughts and actions. For the very brief >>time that they exist they appear objective. >>Some other interesting things: >>1) In all cases but one, the images have been created out of >>objects in the room, as though the process exploits materials >>available in the visual field rather than creating imagery >>entirely from the contents of the mind >>2) In not one instance that I can recall has this imagery had >>any connection with the contents a previous dream >>3) In not one instance has this imagery ever had any ufological >>content, or indeed any sort of very exotic content, although I >>have been interested in UFOs and paranormal topics since >>childhood. >>I'd be interested to know if these are common characteristics in >>other people's experience. >Very interesting Martin. At last we have a way to partially >investigate the phenoemenon on the list. Can you comment more on >the time duration of each instance of your hypnopompic imagery? >You mentioned "a couple seconds" but I wanted to get direct >comment from you. Hi Brad Always very short duration, maybe as much as 3 or 4 seconds sometimes, but usually less I think. There's a perceptible transition time from image to reality where the one dissolves into the other. For example, the head and facial details of an unidentified person dissolve into what is really a bedside lampshadeThis is hard to describe. >Was there ever an instance of such imagery >that seemed to last for minutes or hours? No. >What time of day (night) did these occur? Always on waking from an ordinary period of sleep, usually in half-light conditions (i.e. some early dawn light or street light filtering through curtains, so not absolute darkness. Shapes distinguishable. >Did you experience paralysis? No >Did you ever "float" into the air (a common feature reported by >sleep paralysis experiencers due to loss of motor control)? No >What was the one instance where the imagery did not form out of >objects in the room? This is in some ways the most interesting "apparition" but hard to be certain about because so remote in time. I have told the story a few times over the years but I'm fairly confident that this memory is accurate in that I'm not adding anything. I may be forgetting something. I was about 14 years old. I had been camping in the hills with friends and arrived home pretty tired sometime before noon having had little sleep. I crashed out and awoke midafternoon. I can't remember whether curtains were drawn or not but it I don't think so, it was perfectly ordinary daylight. I opened my eyes and immediately saw a figure standing at the foot of the bed. It was a man, of shortish to middling height, with black or dark hair and a swarthy sort of complexion. I'd characterise the facial appearance as possibly "middle-eastern". The oddest thing really was that I noticed how smartly dressed he was. I can't recall detail of his shirt and tie but he wore them, and over these a neat tan-coloured suit jacket. For some reason as a youth I associated the jacket colour and texture with a "camel hair" coat, and I also had the unexplained idea that he might be a Mormon. He didn't move. He was looking straight at me. I couldn't really tell you how long this lasted, but again it can only have been a couple of seconds I think, and I can remember ma ny times trying but failing to describe to myself and to others how it disappeared. In this case I just became conscious that it wasn't there any more. Nevertheless the image was perfectly vivid while it lasted. >And, of course, you never seemed to be >"abducted" by anybody or any entity otherwise I'm sure you would >have mentioned that. Correct >Did you ever have an imagery that told a complete story, like an >abduction, being carried on board a ship, having experiences on >board the ship, then being returned? No. >Or was it always fragmentary and momentary? Fragmentary. >Did you ever see any "entities"? Did >you ever see the Devil or any demons? Some slightly scary faces that you could maybe characterise as demonic but you'd have to supply that conext from outside the experience. None that had horns or breathed fire etc! And only the "Mormon" gent as described above was a complete figure (though I couldn't actually see his lower legs and feet of course, but I conceived that they were there). >Ever get taken to a supernatural or otherworldly place like a >heaven or hell and get a grand tour? Never. >The reason I ask of course is because sleep >paralysis and hypnogogic - hypnopompic hallucinations never tell >a whole story, they're fragmentary and brief, and often seem >absurd and illogical like a dream. Hence they are very unlike >most UFO abductions. I think my experiences illustrate that. Interestingly, the "Mormon" was seen after a night spent skywatching for UFOs. I was immersed in saucer lore as a teenager. Yet the Mormon does
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Langley's Commander Straps Himself To FOIA Mast From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul> Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:04:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:00:28 -0500 Subject: Langley's Commander Straps Himself To FOIA Mast To: president.nul Langley AFB's Commander Straps Himself to the FOIA Mast of His Listing Ship of Censorship By Larry W. Bryant "The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot After several months of waiting for officials at Langley Air Force Base, Va., to fulfill my July 14, 2005, freedom-of- information request for all records pertaining to the base newspaper's June 24, 2005, rejection of my May 9, 2005, proposed paid ad "Blow the Whistle on the Neo-UFO Whistleblowers," I finally have received their definitive response: It comes in a letter to me of Dec. 9, 2005, advising, in effect: "Kiss off, pal - we ain't gonna reveal to any outsider our 1st Fighter Wing's full state of mind behind the command's conspiracy to reject yo' freakin' ad!" Brig. Gen. (director of communications) John W. Maluda's records-denial letter cites three FOIA exemptions-from- mandatory-disclosure as regards three entire pages of withheld documents (two of which bear the protective marking "FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY"): (b)(5) - material whose disclosure would reveal the government's deliberative process in such a controversy (an exemption that, by the way, has become various agencies' tool-of-choice for quickly skirting the public's right-to-know in such cases of questionable government conduct); (b)(6) - "personnel and medical files and similar files the disclosure of which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy" (from which invocation I deduce that the LAFB commander prefers that we not learn the names/titles of ALL the officials who've rendered opinions/recommendations/decisions in the course of thwarting the First Amendment); (b)(7)(C) - "records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes, but only to the extent that [their release]... (C) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy..." (an invocation that prompts me to ask: WHAT "law enforcement purposes" are involved in this matter, and WHOSE privacy interests are at stake here?) Maluda's package of released records does include a copy of the command's printing contract for the base newspaper (the weekly "Flyer"). Incidentally, the current commercial printing contractor has yet to play any role in the official rejection of my proposed ad (see its contents below); that conspicuous absence in the decisionmaking process not only violates the First Amendment but also runs counter to the DoD-USAF's own regulations as to how commanders must process ad submissions. And, as if to offer up a warmed-over red herring to a perennial gadfly, the package trundles out that mainstay of official UFOlogical propaganda - the HQ-USAF "FACT SHEET" titled "Unidentified Flying Objects and Air Force Project Blue Book," along with an excerpt from the USAF public affairs bible (Air Force Reg. 190-1, dated Aug. 30, 1991), whose paragraph 6-28 ("Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO)") echoes the content of the dismissive "FACT SHEET." It is that content on which the LAFB ostriches are basing their rejection of my whistleblower- solicitation ad. As these photophobic officials continue to bury their heads in the sand of obfuscation-and-denial, and to use bureaucratic paperwork to shield their butts from any accountability for their actions/inactions, let's keep in mind this bit of reality: No First Amendment/right-to-know advocate should be surprised at this negative turn of events - especially during this dangerous and frightful era of official secrecy and deceit orchestrated and escalated by the Bu$ch junta. Text Of The Banned-At-Langley Advertisement: Blow The Whistle On The Neo-Ufo Whistleblowers! Two members of a reinvigorated crop of reputed UFO-coverup whistleblowers - former USAF intelligence officer Robert M. Collins and former USAF-OSI agent Richard C. Doty - have teamed up to produce a brand-new book, titled "Exempt from Disclosure: The Disturbing Case About the UFO Coverup" http://www.ufoconspiracy.com Does the book constitute a confirmable case of insider knowledge of what our government knows (and when it knew it) about UFO reality? Or does its foray into the bowels of the world's Deepest Secret merely regurgitate a form of official disinformation - "disUFOmation" - made (in)famous back in the 1980's via the Kirtland AFB's Bennewitz Affair? If you (or
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Season's Greetings & Best Wishes From OZ From: Bill Chalker <bill_c.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 12:04:33 +1100 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:01:34 -0500 Subject: Season's Greetings & Best Wishes From OZ My sincere best wishes for a safe, happy and wonderful Christmas and new year to all. May we all regroup in the new Year and continue contributing to this fascinating subject.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Mars Pix? From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 01:52:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:09:26 -0500 Subject: Mars Pix? Q: Does anyone see anything unusual in these images taken by the Mars Spirit rover? From Z. Sitchin's website: dustdevil.jpg http://www.sitchin.com/imagesB/dustdevil.jpg conical5.jpg http://www.sitchin.com/imagesB/conical5.jpg marsring.jpg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 The UFOlogical Dung Heap Christmas 2005 From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 04:18:23 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:13:08 -0500 Subject: The UFOlogical Dung Heap Christmas 2005 Over the many years of various story telling in Ufological circles we have heard a great many stories, usually attributed from nameless, faceless sources, who claim to be part of the "intelligence community," CIA, DIA, AF and other super dooper, super secret government agencies. For example in the early days of 1996 according to all the top- level-never-wrong intelligence-community sources both political partys were going to make some kind of big disclosure BEFORE THE ELECTION. Never happened. There is/was a martian hive colony living underground in New Mexico and in 1996 the martians were going to come out and invade earth. Didn't happen. The Mars rock announcement of August 1996 was alleged to be "the big precursor event to the big ET reality announcement that fall. Never Happened. Same announcement to happen JUST AFTER the election. Never Happened. In December of 96 and January of 1997 we were being told stories allegedly from inside the intelligence community of Yellowbook/10,000 year history of ET on earth/Christ is an ET/mass landings to happen on April 24th 1997. Never Happened. Then we had Shargel and his "insider space scientists" at "Alice Springs tracking station" who allegedly was the source for the Jan 24th 1997 ET radio waves were going to bathe the earth which would start a new day for humanity. Never Happened. An amateur astronomer unloaded his pictures of the supposed companion object allegedly following Hale Bopp, within 3 days of the announcement the remote viewers confirmed the claim. No Companion object. Never Happened. The remote viewers told us that they had RV'ed how the earth, when it transversed through the path of Hale Bopp was going to get some type of pathagon which would destory all grass and other green plant life. Never Happened. We had various predictions how Y2K was going to be the end of the world and people who were utterly convinced of the garbage they unloaded, they built so called survival communities out in the middle of know where to escape all the Y2K calamities and disasters. Never Happened. Various planatary alignments in our solar system..all going to cause various massive calamitys and earth changes that would change life as we know it. Never Happened. Don't forget the famous 5/5/2000 Ice: the ultimate disaster or something like that. Never happened. Tales and stories...all from top-level, top-notch DOD/Intel community officials were passed on to a researcher who unloaded a tale on national radio for awhile about how ET was going to land on a mountain top in Arizona in/on Dec 7th 2000. Never Happened We had various so called planet X tales and stories that were going to climax in May of 2003 and how the government was covering up this huge calamity; how they had somehow silenced all the observatorys that saw X etc. Never Happened. Some people that were promoting this did start backing off early and becoming more date ambgious, while others insisted that it was going to happen at the end of May, then a month or two later, etc etc. Never Happened. Dec 12 2003. Allegedly a tidal wave to hit the west coast of the US, and or earthquakes, disasters, perhaps the earth iron core turning which was going to cause all these huge changes. Never Happened. Date was erroneously attributed to Stan Romanak who has consistently maintained that nothing was going to happen, that this is being twisted and misinterpreted by researchers. Apparently 12/12 came from another researcher whose personal belief was that all these disasters would take place. We have had a number of other stories in between all of these through present. Now we have the latest in stories dealing with an alleged highly classified project called Serpo. Again from nameless, faceless, self proclaimed former intelligence community people, blah blah blah, who never told a like in their life, etc etc. We may never find out the truth, but a good word of advice is don't quit your day job based on Serpo tales and stories, as they will likely remain more elusive, not proveable, or verifiable and ultimately may get added to the dung heap of ufology.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Couple Claims Aliens Abducted, Probed Them From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:28:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 10:28:28 -0500 Subject: Couple Claims Aliens Abducted, Probed Them Source: WKMG TV6 - Orlando, Florida http://www.local6.com/news/5614405/detail.html December 22, 2005 Couple Claims Aliens Abducted, Probed Them A husband and wife in Houston, Texas, claim they have been abducted by aliens several times, including an incident where a fetus was taken from the woman, according to a Local 6 News report. Clayton Lee, who is confident that a scar on his side came from an alien probe to collect his DNA, and his wife, Donna, have come forward with claims that they have been contacted by extra terrestrials more than 20 times. Clayton Lee said he was a child in a Houston park the first time he was abducted. He said he was lifted in the air at the time of the alleged abduction. "I remember just floating up higher and higher, Lee said. "And, all that was around were stars and blackness. And then, I blacked out." Donna Lee said she lost a baby during one of the encounters. She also drew a photo of the aliens who abducted her. Local 6 News showed video of a hypnotist trying to retrieve memories of the abduction. "They're touching me -- quit touching me," Clayton Lee screamed in fear during the session. Susan Clancy, who is a Harvard psychiatrist, decided to do research on people's abduction claims similar to the Lee family's. Clancy ran an advertisement searching for people who wanted to be included in her book about alien abductions. "When I ran the first ad looking for people who thought they had been abducted by aliens, I thought we would get very few calls, but we were inundated with calls for a month after we ran one ad," Clancy said. Clancy said she is not a believer of alien abductions. "So, people have symptoms like psychological distress, anxiety, sexual problems, nightmares, and for better or for worse, today, being abducted by aliens is a culturally available explanation for why you might have some of these symptoms," Clancy said.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Re: New Lurker - Meek From: Robert Meek <rm8471.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 09:39:40 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 12:59:38 -0500 Subject: Re: New Lurker - Meek >From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <UFOUpdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:44:03 -0700 >Subject: A Season's Post >Greetings to the Listarians and Lurkers, >I've learned many things this year... I am a "lurker" (by choice). New here. I have no special skills, research, or knowledge to contribute. However, I hope to learn (more) and am thankful for what I have
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Re: The UFOlogical Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:35:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:08:30 -0500 Subject: Re: The UFOlogical Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 04:18:23 EST >Subject: The UFOlogical Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >Over the many years of various story telling in Ufological >circles we have heard a great many stories, usually attributed >from nameless, faceless sources, who claim to be part of the >"intelligence community," CIA, DIA, AF and other super dooper, >super secret government agencies. <snip> Really Robert, much of the stuff you have alluded to is considered garbage or just plain whacky by the rest of us. Lumping this foolishness into the mainstream is just Magonian BS. It puzzles me as to why you would waste time flapping around in these areas then bring them to life as if they had credibility with the majority of the investigators on this List. We are all aware of those who buy into the Hale-Bopp and Heaven's Gate cultism, end of the world scenarios and flying saucers are about to land on the White House lawn [and considering the credibility of its residents, why would they bother] planet alignments or projects like the supposed SERPO. It must be good however to get that off your chest and reiterate your commitment to UFO bashing. But I think you wasted your time.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 08:55:28 -1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:11:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics >From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:21:49 EST >Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique >>From: Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 18:26:21 -1000 >>Subject: Re: Response To Kevin Randle's Exopolitics Critique <snip> >Please elaborate on this "earlier six year service as a >commissioned officer." In a conversation with Dean I asked him about his prior service as a commissioned officer where he received specialized training that accounted for his Top Secret clearance in the US Army and his deployment to SHOC. He says that he didn�t complete university training and instead joined Officer Training School in 1950. Then in 1951 he served in Korea for one year out of a total of six years active duty as a commissioned officer. I have yet to get access to his military records to confirm this but it is consistent with his appointment to SHOC and the Cosmic Top Secret clearance he received in 1963 when assigned to NATO. >However, there are aspects of Dean's story that are not >confirmed and that are in direct conflict with what he says. For >example, he said that he was in the "Intelligence Section" but >the documents, supplied by him, suggest his assignment was to >the Language Group - and a document he supplied to Good relating >to Dean's security clearance is "patently bogus." In other >words, here is a document supplied by Dean to prove he was >involved with the intelligence section that has been >manufactured. It should be pointed out that in the high level military study conducted by Tim Good and Admiral Norton-Hill on Dean's claims regarding the existence of the Assessment and its classification as Cosmic Top Secret that Good and Norton-Hill concluded that neither claim was supported by their research findings. Good's analysis of the document allegedly proving the existence of a Cosmic Top Secret document showed that it was bogus, and therefore no Cosmic Top Secret classification existed. However, it has been subsequently learned that a Cosmic Top Security classification was used by NATO in the sixties and even continues today. Jan Aldrich has shown that NATO Top Secret is equivalent to the US classification of Top Secret. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/feb/m15-023.shtml Consequently, that shows that the Good Norton-Hill investigation was not as authoritative as you suggest and that they couldn't even establish the existence of the Cosmic Top Secret classification used by NATO. That shows just how unreliable their conclusion is regarding the existence of the Assessment with a Cosmic Top Secret classification, and vindicates Dean's initial claims which were widely dismissed on the basis that such a NATO 'Cosmic' classification did not exist. As for Dean's precise role in terms of serving either in the "Intelligence Section" and "the Language Group", he claims they he ran the duty roster in SHOC for senior officers. In a private email to me he wrote: "As I mentioned, I personally ran the duty roster for the senior officers who acted as controllers in SHOC (the war room). As a Senior Master Sgt (E-8) at the time, I had many perks.� That describes his role in SHOC and suggests that he served in the Intelligence Section. <snip> >>Excuse me but I have yet to find Corso making any of these >>claims concerning being a full Colonel, being a member of MJ-12. >>I have done quite a bit of reseach on Corso and listened to a >>number of interviews and read some of his personal material. I >>have not found any of these claims you say. Can you give clear >>references and evidence that he made such claims. I have yet to >>find it. If not, then I can only conclude you are promoting red >>herrings. As for being in command of White Sands Missile Range, >>he received a Commendation for meritorious service as battalian >>commander for the 3rd Missile Battalion, 71st Artillery from >>1957-59. That relates to the period where he claims to have >>served at White Sands. Is your objection that he was a battalion >>commander rather than commander of the entire White Sands >>Missile Range? Sounds to me like another red herring you are >>promoting. >On the cover of his book, it says Colonel and not Lieutenant >Colonel. When questioned about this, Corso said that he was >promoted to Colonel in the reserve on retirement. There is no >documentation to support this claim. Rather than just say the >publisher made a mistake because publishers don't always >understand things military, Corso choose to spin the tale, >claiming to be an 06 (Colonel) when he was, in fact an 05 >(Lieutenant Colonel). To make it worse, in his proposal, and in >correspondence he said that he was a Colonel rather than a >Lieutenant Colonel. This is a red herring. I have yet to read anywhere where Corso makes this claim. I have already asked you to supply the evidence that he made such a claim. Can you cite an interview or record of this? Until you do, I see no purpose in investing time and energy in tracking down what may have happened. So far I have been informed that Reserve Officers were regularly promoted upon retirement and that this was not necessarily recorded on their service record, and could have been recorded in several different ways. This can be confirmed by contacting Major General (Ret) David R. Bockel, Deputy Executive Director, Reserve Officers Association, (202) 646-7705. Maj-General Bockel explained this to me in a phone conversation where we discussed Col Corso. The precise program under which Corso may have been promoted was titled ROPA, based on the Reserve Officer Personel Act that was passed by Congress in 1954 and revised several times to help the promotions of Reserve Officers. Lt Col., appeared to be a glass ceiling for Reserve Officers and there are precedents for Lt Col's being promoted to full Colonel upon retirement without ever having actively served as a full Colonel. >In the proposal he circulated about his book, he claimed to have >been working at the Eisenhower White House and served on the >staff of MJ-12. >Yes, he commanded a >battalion at White Sands, but in an interview conducted on >video tape in July 1997, Corso tells the assembled reporters >that he commanded the White Sands Missile Range, not that he >had a battalion there or that he commanded a unit there but >that he commanded the Range. Again another red herring. In July 97 Corso was 81/82 years old and not a well man. He could be excused for missing some of the nuances in precisely describing his position as a battalian commander at White Sands Missile Range, as opposed to being the overall commander of White Sands Missile Range. This is where your penchant for details gets you to overlook the human factor where people reflecting back on careers that occurred 40 years or so back may occassionally slip up on the precise details of their positions and activities. This to me reflects how you consistently miss the forest for the trees and where your approach of getting a whistleblower to get every detail right is both inappropriate and a distraction. Corso was very advanced in age reflecting on events and positions he held over 40/50 years ago. <snip> >Actually, Corso made a big deal about the foreword that Thurmond >had written for his unpublished book I Walked With Giants: My >Career in Military Intelligence. That introduction turned up in >The Day After Roswell and Thurmond demanded that it be removed >from the book. Seems to me that this suggests something about >integrity. This episode has been well documented here and in >other arenas as well. Corso pulled a bait and switch on the >foreword, which is not very ethical. Again, this is supposition on your part. It amazes me that a long time UFO researcher such as yourself uses so much supposition in critiquing whistleblowers such as Corso. Corso had a direct personal relationship with Thurmond and stated that Thurmond approved the use of his preface. Subsequently, Thurmond's legislative aides tried to distance Thurmond from Corso's book. This doesn't negate Corso's version of what happened. This is again another red herring from you. Why don't you begin focusing on Corso's claims concerning reverse engineering and seeding various ET technologies into the civilian sector, rather than quibbling over minor issues such as Thurmond approving the preface for one book rather than another, or details such as Corso being a battalian commander at White Sands Missile base, as opposed to the overall commander of White Sands Missile base? >And according to a 1965 memo to FBI director J. Edgar Hoover: >"Corso is a self-styled intelligence expert who retired from the >military approximately three years ago, and he has been working >as one of Sen. Thurmond's many assistants. He has been a thorn >in our side because of self-initiated rumors, idle gossips and >downright lies he has spread to more or less perpetuate his own >reputation as an intelligence expert." >In a memo dated 11 Feb 1965, it was written, >"Corso is well known to the Bureau. He fancies himself as an >expect in the intelligence field and has a history of wholesale >accusations against many people and many agencies of the Federal >Government of plotting to subvert the Nation. He has caused many >agencies, including the FBI, to expend much manpower, money and >effort to disprove some of his injudicious accusations." >Pretty damning stuff - oh, yes, it comes from the FBI so we can >reject that out of hand because everyone knows what the FBI >really is. The FBI began the campaign to discredit Corso more >than forty years ago just in case he let his Roswell information >slip. Of course, for an indication of Corso's character, we >can always look at the lawsuit filed against him which caused >the cancellation of contracts for other books. But then, it >does suggest a history of spinning tales. Or to be blunt about >it - lying. Wow, amazing how you will twist data to suit your conclusions. The FBI report was leaked in an effort to damage Corso's effort to be approved for a key Congressional committee. It is no secret that Corso had created many enemies in the FBI due to his earlier claims concerning the FBI and CIA being infiltrated by communist sympathizers described at the time as Fabian Socialists. Furthermore, he claimed that according to a CIA mole, the FBI was in some way compromised in the Kennedy Assasination. During the 50s Corso played a key role in the McCarthy witch hunt for Fabian socialists embeded in various government agencies. That was when there was an open conflict between Corso's superior, Lt Gen Trudeau and Allen Dulles head of the CIA. Trudea lost the fight and had to leave military intelligence but was eventually 'promoted' to head Army Research and Development. <snip> >Both Stone and Corso have >documented histories of telling tales, so this would be the sort >of soft evidence that argues against their veracity. And Dean >apparently offered a document that was bogus to support his >claim of having been part of an intelligence unit. And you >claim repeatedly that some nefarious unit of the government is >out there removing all evidence that any of these >whistleblowers are who they say, yet the best evidence is that >they have altered their records and lied about their >accomplishments, just the sort of soft evidence you champion. So >how come you ignore this soft evidence? I have shown that in both the Dean and Corso cases you raise red herrings and ignore evidence that both were accurate in their claims. Dean for example was validated when it was proven that the Cosmic Top Secret classification was being used at a time where even Good and Admiral Norton-Hill couldn't prove it. Yet you conviently ignore that fact in order to tarnish Dean as an embellisher when the Good investigation did not prove the existence of the Assessment. As far as Corso is concerned, you quibble over details such as how Corso described his role as a (battalion) commander at White Sands Missile base, and the role of Thurmond's preface to his book. I think you are committed to blowing up any minor inconsistences in the testimonies of Dean and Corso, and ignoring documentation and facts which support the claims they were making. I do question the utility of your approach that emphasizes corroboration for every minor detail concerning the claims and background of whistleblowers. Your approach is inadequate and a distraction to researchers wanting to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Re: Mars Pix? - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 11:06:31 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:14:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Pix? - Chichikov The conicals are traffic cones. The bus to the next crater stops at the ring. The dust devil means that the cleaning crew has yet to arrive. Pavel >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 01:52:47 -0500 >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Mars Pix? >Q: Does anyone see anything unusual in these images taken by the Mars Spirit rover? >>From Z. Sitchin's website: >dustdevil.jpg >http://www.sitchin.com/imagesB/dustdevil.jpg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 24 Be Of Good Cheer From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:47:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:47:33 -0500 Subject: Be Of Good Cheer To Subscribers & Readers around the planet, may this Season bring you peace, happines and prosperty - you deserve it.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:52:05 +0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:03:33 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:35:43 -0400 >Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 04:18:23 EST >>Subject: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>Over the many years of various story telling in Ufological >>circles we have heard a great many stories, usually attributed >>from nameless, faceless sources, who claim to be part of the >>"intelligence community," CIA, DIA, AF and other super dooper, >>super secret government agencies. > <snip> >We are all aware of those who buy into the Hale-Bopp and >Heaven's Gate cultism, end of the world scenarios and flying >saucers are about to land on the White House lawn [and >considering the credibility of its residents, why would they >bother] planet alignments or projects like the supposed SERPO. Hello Robert, Don and List, Try to be an impartial observer & tend to agree with Don, but have noted the shock / horror of investigators who get their fingers burnt by misinformation from deniable "authority" sources. It's hard for ordinary folk to realize how weird some agency folk can be, and how paranoid and self-justifying their working environments get. Additionally, many don't realize the hold `agencies' have over operatives; going well beyond pension rights, as those operatives know all too well - maybe extending to personal and family well-being. [I speak as `straight' ex-Army who sometimes had to work with "Intelligence" people - and of course there's always `volunteer' civilian weirdos who are totally outwith _any_ control] All in all, I'm not surprised that people (like Keel & others) should get badly shocked from time to time, sometimes fatally (see earlier correspondence on "strange deaths of investigators"). Dung there is, plenty of it, but think most of it is falling on us from a great height. Cheers Ray D BTW - seems to me that planetary alignments are a purely physical phenomenon with purely physical repercussions (so far as I know); luckily I believe you can check for yourself - see checkalign in Google
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: Mars Pix? - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:19:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:04:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Pix? - White >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 01:52:47 -0500 >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Mars Pix? <snip> >http://www.sitchin.com/imagesB/dustdevil.jpg 1. Small seemingly ring shaped array of 'teeth' projecting upwards from the sand, just above and to the left of the radiused nose of the solar panel? 2. Whitish stuff that looks like some sort of snow-like material
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: Be Of Good Cheer - Chichikov From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:53:54 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:06:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Be Of Good Cheer - Chichikov UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >To Subscribers & Readers around the planet, may this Season >bring you peace, happines and prosperty - you deserve it. Merry >Christmas, Happy Chanukah and a damn fine New Year >Errol Thank you Errol, and many happy returns. And who knows, this may be the year it happens, despite all the revelations that 'never happened'. And if it does happen, it will be something completely unexpected, perhaps even to the point of being a bit disappointing. For instance, there may be Space Brothers manifesting themselves as Space Salesmen for the purpose of selling us vacuum cleaners whose operation is based on exotic quantum principles, in return
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:51:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:09:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - >From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:57:55 -0200 >Subject: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? >Has anybody here seen and could comment on the US History >channel's show 'Brazil's Roswell', about the secret >investigation of UFOs in the Amazon by our military. The show >started airing last Sunday. Hello A.J., Yes, this program followed an updated rehash on the Rendlesham events of 1980. I'm a casual observer of the UFO scene who subscribes to Flying Saucer Review and reads the occasional book. I was not familiar with the Colares island sightings and attacks. The program cited 500 photos, 15 hours of film, and numerous pages of written material. The Brazilian Air Force either seemed to lose interest after a few weeks of collecting material or were influenced to stop and cover up. The captain in charge retired in 1995 or so and shortly thereafter decided to go public. He died a strange "suicide" who allegedly attached a strap from a metal bed frame to his neck and strangled in a prone or semi-prone position. Very curious death. A.J., I did see you in a few clips.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 26 UFO Disinfo In Parade Magazine From: Bob Soetebier <xxxxx.xxx> Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 20:32:28 -0600 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:20:16 -0500 Subject: UFO Disinfo In Parade Magazine This Q&A appeared in Walter Scott's column in the Sunday, December 25, 2005, weekly "PARADE" magazine (which is included with the Sunday "St. Louis Post-Dispatch".): Q In a recent TV interview, Neil Armstrong talked of seeing a UFO on his 1969 Apollo 11 moon mission. Why does our government keep information about UFOs secret? --Nancy Fellers, Sarasota, Fla. A It doesn't. NASA says "there is no tangible evidence" of UFOs, and Armstrong didn't discuss them in his only recent interview -- on 60 Minutes. What he saw in 1969 were deep-space cosmic rays. For more on this phenomenon, read Leon Wagner's book One Giant Leap, now being made into a TV movie for TNT. [Note: Letters to the Editor can be sent to "PARADE" at]: http://www.parade.com/letters.html ----- While not directly involving Neil Armstrong, the two following article excerpts may also be of interest.: ----- http://tinyurl.com/4txp2 Space pioneer Gordon Cooper dies - Cooper believed in UFO coverup 10/04/2004 (CNN) -- Leroy Gordon Cooper, one of the nation's first astronauts who once set a space endurance record by traveling more than 3.3 million miles aboard Gemini 5 in 1965, died on Monday, NASA said. He was 77. Cooper died at his home in Ventura, California. "As one of the original seven Mercury astronauts, Gordon Cooper was one of the faces of America's fledgling space program. He truly portrayed the right stuff, and he helped gain the backing and enthusiasm of the American public, so critical for the spirit of exploration," NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said on the space agency 's Web site. <snip> "I would have liked to have gone to the moon. I would have liked to have been one of the crew that landed on the moon but it just didn't work out that way. And I don't, I certainly don't harbor any bitterness or anger." In addition to his space flights, Cooper logged more than 7,000 hours flying time in jets and commercial aircraft. He retired from the Air Force and NASA in 1970 with the rank of colonel. After leaving NASA, Cooper served on the boards of directors as a technical consultant to a number of companies in the aerospace, electronics and energy fields. He also was the vice president for research and development for Walter E. Disney Enterprises Inc., from 1974-1980. In his post-NASA career, Cooper became known as an outspoken believer in UFOs and charged that the government was covering up its knowledge of extraterrestrial activity. "I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on Earth," he told a United Nations panel in 1985. "I feel that we need to have a top-level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over the Earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interface with these visitors in a friendly fashion." He added, "For many years I have lived with a secret, in a secrecy imposed on all specialists and astronauts. I can now reveal that every day, in the USA, our radar instruments capture objects of form and composition unknown to us." c. 2005 Cable News Network LP, LLLP. ----- http://tinyurl.com/cuace The sixth man to walk on the moon shares his unconventional views. By Waveney Ann Moore, Times Staff Writer Published February 18, 2004 ST. PETERSBURG - The aliens have landed. Thus declared Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell on Saturday to more than 200 admirers. "A few insiders know the truth... and are studying the bodies that have been discovered," said Mitchell, who was the sixth man to walk on the moon. Mitchell, who landed on the moon with Alan B. Shepard, said a "cabal" of insiders stopped briefing presidents about extraterrestrials after President Kennedy. For those who might consider his statements farfetched, Mitchell, who has a doctorate in science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, noted that 30 years ago it was accepted that man was alone in the universe. Few people believe that now, he said.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: Mars Pix? - Freeman From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul> Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 10:46:28 EST Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:24:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Mars Pix? - Freeman >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 01:52:47 -0500 >To: ufoupdates.nul >Subject: Mars Pix? >Q: Does anyone see anything unusual in these images taken by >the Mars Spirit rover? >From Z. Sitchin's website: >dustdevil.jpg >http://www.sitchin.com/imagesB/dustdevil.jpg <snip> Hello Chaz, EBK and List, Merry Christmas to everybody and a may the new year bless you all with happiness. Chaz, in the particular image of the "dustdevil", what I noticed that, to me, was quite unusual was the cube-shaped "ruin", if you will, in the foreground as if there could be a structure of some sort buried underneath the sand/debris or whatever. Is it not unusual for all those sharp angles to occur naturally?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 26 Re: Langley's Commander Straps Himself To FOIA From: William Bolt <ab5sy.nul> Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 12:42:10 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:35:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Langley's Commander Straps Himself To FOIA >From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto >Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:04:19 -0500 >Subject: Langley's Commander Straps Himself To FOIA Mast <snip> If any enlisted personel, Officers or civilians wish to become whistle blowers they will do so. What I read from you FOIA
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 26 Rendlesham Forest Article From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:08:23 -0000 Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:38:29 -0500 Subject: Rendlesham Forest Article There's another article on the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident in the UK Sun newspaper today, on page 41.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:36:17 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 07:24:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - >From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:51:11 -0700 >Subject: Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? >>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:57:55 -0200 >>Subject: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? >>Has anybody here seen and could comment on the US History >>channel's show 'Brazil's Roswell', about the secret >>investigation of UFOs in the Amazon by our military. The show >>started airing last Sunday. >Yes, this program followed an updated rehash on the Rendlesham >events of 1980. I'm a casual observer of the UFO scene who >subscribes to Flying Saucer Review and reads the occasional >book. So was there anything new on 'Britain's Roswell', the Rendlesham program? The production company are sending me a DVD but it hasn't arrived yet and I haven't yet seen any reviews from ufologists. The Sci Fi Channel are repeating 'UFO Invasion at Rendlesham' on December 27 at 9pm, Eastern Time: http://www.scifi.com/rendlesham/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:40:02 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 07:26:06 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:52:05 +0000 >Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 <snip> >Additionally, many don't realize the hold 'agencies' have over >operatives; going well beyond pension rights, as those >operatives know all too well - maybe extending to personal and >family well-being. <snip> Ray,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: Chronology Deadline Needed - Aldrich From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 23:54:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 07:31:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Chronology Deadline Needed - Aldrich >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:56:54 -0000 >Subject: Chronology Deadline Needed >As some of you know, I've been working on a chronology for >considerably over two years (working title - "A chronology of >frequently discussed UFO and SETI related events (from 1877- >2005)"). >When I started the Chronology, I had in mind producing a working >document about 20-30 pages long. It became much longer than that >within a few weeks and has since grown like The Blob. >I had hoped to circulate it by Christmas 2004 as a little >present to fellow members of this List. However, I felt that a >lot of work remained to be done. >In the last few months, I've been optimistic about completing a >draft for circulation this Christmas (2005). Unfortunately, I've >kept acquiring more books and material which needed to be >referred to in the Chronology and I've had a number of ideas >requiring revisions and additional tasks. Plus, of course, there >is the little matter of having to work up to 20 hours a day in >the office (and having a pregnant wife). >In short, I will not be circulating a draft by this Christmas >either. >This cannot go on much longer. Preparing the Chronology became a >tedious affair long ago and I have other much more interesting >projects I want to concentrate on. >Having in mind "targets" for completion has been insufficient >motivation to complete the document. So, I need a deadline. (I >know from experience with work the effect of having a deadline >known to others.) >I'm therefore publically committing myself to a deadline for >posting a link to a draft of the complete document on UFO >UpDates, arbitrarily set as midnight on Sunday 22 January 2006. >This delay does not mean that you'll be getting an alternative >Christmas present from me! One of the original goals of the history workshop in Chicago, establishing a time line of official history using documents then available - in some cases items not well known - was esstentially kicked down the road at our meeting. Such a task was far more ambitous than we envisioned. Barry Greenwood and a number others including myself have produced a list of holdings. However, in no sense are these combinations of holdings complete or comprehensive. Even with such a list or collection of documents, context is missing. Loren Gross has done the best job to date of supplying this context. His works are head and shoulders above everything else, but even Loren told me that there are things he did not cover in his latest revisions. Several of us suggested that Loren extend his history project, The Fifth Horseman Of The Apocalypse, to 1963 which could be said to be the cultural end of the 1950's. Loren's latest booklet June-December 1963 is the last booklet in the series. Loren has announced that his UFO History Project is now finished after thousands of hours of work and thousands of dollars in expenses. I believe such chronologies, document collections, etc. are vital to UFO history. Good luck! Jan Aldrich
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - Gates From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 02:07:50 EST Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 07:40:13 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - Gates >From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:35:43 -0400 >Subject: Re: The UFOlogical Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 04:18:23 EST >>Subject: The UFOlogical Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>Over the many years of various story telling in Ufological >>circles we have heard a great many stories, usually attributed >>from nameless, faceless sources, who claim to be part of the >>"intelligence community," CIA, DIA, AF and other super dooper, >>super secret government agencies. ><snip> >Really Robert, much of the stuff you have alluded to is >considered garbage or just plain whacky by the rest of us. >Lumping this foolishness into the mainstream is just Magonian >BS. It puzzles me as to why you would waste time flapping around >in these areas then bring them to life as if they had >credibility with the majority of the investigators on this List. >We are all aware of those who buy into the Hale-Bopp and >Heaven's Gate cultism, end of the world scenarios and flying >saucers are about to land on the White House lawn [and >considering the credibility of its residents, why would they >bother] planet alignments or projects like the supposed SERPO. >It must be good however to get that off your chest and reiterate >your commitment to UFO bashing. But I think you wasted your >time. Hi Don and Listers, You obviously misinterpreted my post, because you incorrectly claim that I have a commitment to UFO bashing. The fact of the matter is that some so-called main stream UFO investigators and consumers buy into this sort of garbage on a frequent and regular basis. Go back into the archives of this List and see the pointed and heated debates on various topics. I can easily name topics but that would launch into many small wars on the List and would be an absolute waste of bandwidth. Now we get into the question of what is main stream Ufology. If you define "main stream" as such greats as Stan Friedman, Walt Andrus, Francis Ridge, Don Berliner, Rob Swaitek, Mark Rodheiger, Michael Swords, Bruce Macabee, John Schussler, Kevin Randle, and others of that caliber, then your "main stream" probably represents about 10-20% of Ufology. My personal bias is to want people of that caliber to be "main stream." That being said, you also have organizations such as MUFON who that are main stream, yet people, officers and directors have different and varying viewpoints about many things, including the validity of witnesses, the testimony of witnesses, and many other topics including whispered stories and breathless tales from so-called Intelligence community insiders. The point being is as a whole so-called "main stream" is pretty much an individual definition, based upon what they tend to believe. Also keep in mind that what you might consider garbage, is another persons treasure. For example Stan Friedman did not believe in the validity of one particular Roswell witness, while Kevin Randle did. Investigation proved that Stan was correct in his belief, and Kevin agreed. Others vehemently believed the Roswell jewel encrusted helmet tale, while others of us
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: UFO Disinfo In Parade Magazine - Barker From: Darryl Barker <admin.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 02:47:11 -0600 (CST) Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 07:44:08 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Disinfo In Parade Magazine - Barker >From: Bob Soetebier <xxxxx.xxx> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 20:32:28 -0600 >Subject: UFO Disinfo In Parade Magazine >This Q&A appeared in Walter Scott's column in the Sunday, >December 25, 2005, weekly "PARADE" magazine (which is included >with the Sunday "St. Louis Post-Dispatch".): >Q In a recent TV interview, Neil Armstrong talked of seeing a >UFO on his 1969 Apollo 11 moon mission. Why does our government >keep information about UFOs secret? =C2--Nancy Fellers, Sarasota, >Fla. >A It doesn't. NASA says "there is no tangible evidence" of >UFOs, and Armstrong didn't discuss them in his only recent >interview -- on 60 Minutes. What he saw in 1969 were deep-space >cosmic rays. For more on this phenomenon, read Leon Wagner's >book One Giant Leap, now being <snip> As a resident of St. Louis who has an opportunity to see the garbage the Post-Dispatch prints daily, I can say without hesitation that the paper does not print much that contradicts the powerbase (aka the U.S. federal government). The paper was right-wing biased under former owner Pulitzer and continues under new owner Lee Enterprises. They appeared at one time to be unbiased regarding UFOs, but after printing a couple of neutral articles on the Illinois police triangle sighting in January, 2000, they must have gotten a directive to trash UFOs and their witnesses, because they did a 90 degree from unbiased journalism to outright debunking. I wouldn't give a dime for the PD; but unfortunately, the provincial population of St. Louis takes its cues from its only
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 07:00:35 -0600 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:05:34 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:40:02 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:52:05 +0000 >>Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 ><snip> >>Additionally, many don't realize the hold 'agencies' have over >>operatives; going well beyond pension rights, as those >>operatives know all too well - maybe extending to personal and >>family well-being. ><snip> >With respect, what you're suggesting here is criminal harassment >and murder, is it not? You did use the word 'maybe', which >suggests speculation only, not fact. Sir; Perhaps Mr. Dickenson was gently reminding the reader that criminal harassments and murders abound and that they are largely tolerated in a real world... but that the stark reality of the condition is such that it is intimidating enough to keep most from looking more than merely askance at it... ...even denying it, scoffing at it... sneering at it. Indeed, it is the cloyingly burdensome ponderousness of the 'actuality' of such is that it will impeach an illigitimate American 'President' and invalidate the base ethics of an entire administration towards the beginning of 2007... or martial law and tyranny will usurp what remains of Democratic Republic and we'll live in a featureless corporate anthill vis a vis "Soylent Green." I don't see a lot of middle ground. Yea and verily. Still, I'm confident we'll turn efficaciously 'left' in the matter, and eschew the disaster of pushing the tiller any further starboard... ufologically et al. I'm _most_ optimistic. I can feel the hum of 'acceleration' upon the tracks on which we stand. I intend catching this train. I won't be run down by same. You?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 UFO Enthusiasts Gather In Forest From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:08:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:08:36 -0500 Subject: UFO Enthusiasts Gather In Forest Source: BBC News - UK http://tinyurl.com/bx837 27 December 2005 UFO Enthusiasts Gather In Forest More than 100 people are expected to gather in a Suffolk forest on Tuesday night to mark 25 years since a famous UFO sighting. During the nights of 26 and 27 December 1980, US servicemen at RAF Woodbridge and Bentwaters reported mysterious lights in Rendlesham Forest. The strange lights included a glowing metallic triangle and a hovering object with red and blue lights. UFO enthusiasts are hoping there might be more sightings during the night. Brenda Butler, a local resident who has written about the events of 1980, believes the sightings of 25 years ago were real. Patrol car lights "People who were coming up the Butley Road and who were in Woodbridge, Melton, Leiston and all around the area saw structured craft," she said. "And that's not the first time - we can go way back to the 1600s and we've had lights in the sky and in the forest." In 2003, Kevin Conde, a former US security policeman said he had been responsible for the lights in the forest. He said he and another airman shined patrol car lights through the trees and made noises on a loudspeaker as a prank. "We just drove through the forest flashing the lights through the fog," he said. Despite Mr Conde's claim, some witnesses do not believe they saw
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:29:32 +0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:44:14 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:40:02 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 ><snip> >With respect, what you're suggesting here is criminal harassment >and murder, is it not? You did use the word 'maybe', which >suggests speculation only, not fact. Hi Pavel, You've summed it up nicely, except "maybe" was used only because it's not provable - for obvious reasons. A year or so ago I might've had your attitude - but a correspondence changed things. Here's open on-line copy of first mail on subject - http://www.mail-archive.com/mythfolk.nul/msg00043.html Re: "Strange deaths of investigators" (No I don't know why that copy is on-line, maybe T Peter is a List member) In it you'll find mentioned another, wider review of same subject http://www.metatech.org/ufo_research_magazine_evidence.html "Is some one killing our UFO Investigators: UFO Magazine" We know that most people who want official power are just the type who are tempted to abuse it. Those in power have things to hide, and so tend to regard impartial investigators as "dangerous" even as "enemies". I'm not an investigator and there are List members who know more than I do about getting deniable "health warnings" from authority. Presumably because they have unfulfilled ambitions, they're sensible and keep their heads down. Because it's all carefully deniable. Cheers Ray D
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: Rendlesham Forest Article - Allan From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:22:28 -0000 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:46:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham Forest Article - Allan >From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:08:23 -0000 >Subject: Rendlesham Forest Article >There's another article on the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident in >the UK Sun newspaper today, on page 41. There is yet another one (of 8 pages) in the Fortean Times, issue 204, December 2005, by Jenny Randles & David Clarke. It is probably the most authoritative yet written, giving every facet of the case. I would hesitate to label it 'definitive', but it must come pretty close to this.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 27 Re: UFO Enthusiasts Gather In Forest - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:34:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 12:47:27 -0500 Subject: Re: UFO Enthusiasts Gather In Forest - Ledger UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >Source: BBC News - UK >http://tinyurl.com/bx837 >27 December 2005 >UFO Enthusiasts Gather In Forest <snip>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - From: Santiago Yturria Garza <syturria.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:10:36 +0000 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:03:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> To: <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:36:17 -0000 Subject: Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? >From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:51:11 -0700 >Subject: Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? >>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:57:55 -0200 >>Subject: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? >Has anybody here seen and could comment on the US History >channel's show 'Brazil's Roswell', about the secret >investigation of UFOs in the Amazon by our military.The show >started airing last Sunday. >Yes, this program followed an updated rehash on the Rendlesham >events of 1980. I'm a casual observer of the UFO scene who >subscribes to Flying Saucer Review and reads the occasional >book. Extensive interviews with Sergeant Jim Penninston, Airman Larry Warren, Airman John Burrogs and Colonel Charles Halt. These are the actual military witnesses who were involved in the December 1980 Rendleshman Forest incident. They narrate the chronology of their own UFO experience providing actual drawings, Penninston's notes and the Halt's tapes. What else could we ask for a legitimate investigation to prove the validity of this classic case? The documentary presented extraordinary recreations of the whole incident made with actors, equipment and special effects, certainly an ambitious production. Interviews with researchers Nick, Georgina and Peter complemented the investigation by the History Channel. So far this is the best documentary I have seen about the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:27:20 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:26:06 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - >From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 02:07:50 EST >Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:35:43 -0400 >>Subject: Re: The UFOlogical Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 04:18:23 EST >>>Subject: The UFOlogical Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >Hi Don and Listers, >You obviously misinterpreted my post, because you incorrectly >claim that I have a commitment to UFO bashing. Actually, Robert, I did misinterpret your post in that regard. But my point was, why do we have to be constantly defending ourselves against ourselves? >The fact of the matter is that some so-called main stream UFO >investigators and consumers buy into this sort of garbage on a >frequent and regular basis. Go back into the archives of this >List and see the pointed and heated debates on various topics. I >can easily name topics but that would launch into many small >wars on the List and would be an absolute waste of bandwidth. >Now we get into the question of what is main stream Ufology. If >you define "main stream" as such greats as Stan Friedman, Walt >Andrus, Francis Ridge, Don Berliner, Rob Swaitek, Mark >Rodheiger, Michael Swords, Bruce Macabee, John Schussler, Kevin >Randle, and others of that caliber, then your "main stream" >probably represents about 10-20% of Ufology. My personal bias is >to want people of that caliber to be "main stream." I think you will find you average will get a little better if you expand your horizons to include researchers other than those of American origin. This list for instance is Canadian run by a immigrant British soul. >That being said, you also have organizations such as MUFON who that are main stream, yet people, officers and directors have different and varying viewpoints about many things, including the validity of witnesses, the testimony of witnesses, and many other topics including whispered stories and breathless tales from so-called Intelligence community insiders. I've run into my share of twinkies along the way; the easily convinced or those who latch on to one particular aspect of the phenomenon which turns their respective crank and turns it into some near religious obsession and who seem to have no apparent critical skills. At conferences or lectures you try to be gentle and perhaps disagree without creating to much of a fuss. Often these people approach you while you are in discussions with others and you are trying to field several different points of view in the space of a few minutes and you really can't opine or prove your point without being abrupt and rude. >The point being is as a whole so-called "main stream" is pretty much an individual definition, based upon what they tend to believe. Also keep in mind that what you might consider garbage, is another persons treasure. For example Stan Friedman did not believe in the validity of one particular Roswell witness, while Kevin Randle did. Investigation proved that Stan was correct in his belief, and Kevin agreed. Others vehemently believed the Roswell jewel encrusted helmet tale, while others of us considered it laughable. There is no dividing line between the investigator with an interest that could flop one way or the other and the so-called true believer who buys into every off the wall theory that comes down the pipe. I don't know how this could be resolved short of copyrighting the term UFO Investigator [for the sake of argument] and then allowing only those who apply standards [and these would have to be somewhat sweeping in scope] agreed to by the holder of the copyright, to be allowed to use the copyrighted title. It would give the term UFO Investigator some small aura of authority. I'm not even sure if that's possible if not just plain silly. I 've never even heard of the jewel encrusted helmet referenced in the last sentence. But I leave the Roswell enigma to the other Maritimer, Stan Friedman.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:33:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:27:41 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - >From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 07:00:35 -0600 >Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:40:02 -0500 >>Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>>From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:52:05 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>With respect, what you're suggesting here is criminal harassment >>and murder, is it not? You did use the word 'maybe', which >>suggests speculation only, not fact. >Sir; >Perhaps Mr. Dickenson was gently reminding the reader that >criminal harassments and murders abound and that they are >largely tolerated in a real world... but that the stark reality >of the condition is such that it is intimidating enough to keep >most from looking more than merely askance at it... ...even >denying it, scoffing at it... sneering at it. <snip> There is a number prominently listed at the front of your phone book you can call, if you are a federal employee who is being threatened. There is also a United States Attorney who would be interested in what you have to say. I'm a resident of the District of Columbia, and as a former grand juror, I've taken the instruction that in the District even verbal threats and verbal assaults are felonies. Assault doesn't have to be physical. It's most likely the same in many other local jurisdictions. I'm speaking of the civil side. Those familiar with military jurisdictions may possibly comment. However, if you have signed an oath not to reveal certain information (and the oath probably includes acknowledgment of criminal and/or administrative penalties) you are bound under law by that oath. That's true even if your top secret office has been charged with delivering pizza to an underground alien base in New Mexico (extra cheese). If you've agreed not to tell, you can't tell. I've heard a few stories over the years about what popular
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 28 UFO Sightings Of Illinois From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:31:30 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:31:30 -0500 Subject: UFO Sightings Of Illinois Source: The Daily Review Atlas - Monmouth, Illinois, USA http://tinyurl.com/de5el Tuesday, December 27 'UFO Sightings Of Illinois' By Robert Anderson Managing Editor An Indiana man has published his own magazine entitled "UFO Sightings of Illinois" and is offering it for sale. In a telephone interview last week, Phillip Dean said he has sent a copy of the 24-page, 8 1/2 by 11-inch magazine to every newspaper editor in the state. "I've had a few answers back and I'll be starting on similar magazine covering Indiana, and from there I'll begin magazines focusing on UFOs in Kansas, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Florida, New York and the nation's capital, Washington D.C." Dean said his fascination with unexplained flying objects started 45 years ago, when he saw an article in the Paris Beacon News. "It was about something that happened out West - a sighting of some objects - and that started me collecting articles," Dean said. "A friend and I talked about UFOs for years, but I never took them seriously, though I always took it for granted that they existed. "Of course, that led to ordering books and magazines from all over the country," he added. "As years go by, the material becomes almost like an addiction. My magazine came out this year. Getting started is the hard part, as anyone in this business can tell you. You got to first pay your dues. I've had some responses from newspaper editors south of here and north of here and in East St. Louis." Dean said he has sold about 15 copies of his magazine so far. He said most of the articles reprinted in his magazine are from magazines and books printed 15 to 30 years ago. Among the articles that interest him the most, one regards a sighting west of Paris, Ill., in which a jet plane is reportedly taken by bell-shaped object. "The person that saw it was a down-to-earth person. His son was on the police force," Dean said. "It happened right on his farm and not all that far away. Then two Air Force men showed up and admitted they had lost a jet in that area but saw to it that nothing about it showed up in the newspapers. The same thing happened on south edge of Paris too, over an area called 'the Y' when a bell-shaped object took a small private plane right there." Both of these incidents occurred in the late 1950s, Dean said. He conducts almost all his own research by mail, Dean said, adding that he has also talked with several "actual eye witnesses." The following are excerpts from the magazine: Aledo, Illinois, July 24, 1978 "Mary and Robert Berglund and their 12-year-old granddaughter were driving home from Rock Island when they saw a big ball of fire in the western sky. Mrs. Berglund said that it kept getting bigger and redder. They said it appeared to land and seemed to be on fire." Franklin Park, Illinois June 17, 1979 "Fear of being ridiculed made the campers hesitate to immediately reveal the terrifying incident. On May 28th, 24-year-old Camp Delaware counselor Ira Leifer led 13 boys on a hike up Blueberry Hill. The boys averaged in age from 13 to 15. At 3:45, the group reached the top of the hill. Few trees obscured the sky. The day was sunny and hot. Suddenly, a high-pitched whine was heard coming from above. Startled, the campers looked up. A pulsating, metallic saucer, about 20 feet in diameter, was hovering 50 to 60 feet above the ground. The UFO had a flat, shiny, reflective bottom, and its half-dome shape was topped by a smaller dome giving off a reddish glow. The entire saucer was surrounded by a purplish mist, and the glowing red dome was revolving. The total observation time was about 30 seconds. During this time, the saucer was completely silent. The campers stood in awe. When the high-pitched sound was heard again, the saucer began to move. The boys screamed and ran for their lives, realizing the UFO was after them! Then, just as it was about to grab them, it suddenly took off straight up. Ira found it impossible to control the panic-stricken group. They all raced to the safety of the camp. Afraid of being called crazy and irresponsible, the campers decided to keep the close encounter a secret. But after being assured by friends that UFO sightings should be reported to aid in their study, the campers bravely stepped forward and told the startling truth." Moline, Illinois, March 9, 1967 "William Fisher, a patrolman of Moline police force, sighted and filmed a UFO, about 1:30 p.m. On the film it shows a glowing oval against a dark background." Elmwood Park, Illinois Nov. 4, 1957 "Patrolman Joseph Lusasek, Patrolman Clifford Scahu and Fireman Robert Volt at 3:12 a.m. spotted an object about 250 feet in the air. They turned on the spotlight of their squad car on the object that was over Elmwood Cemetery and radioed Officer Daniel DeGiovanni who was on duty at Elmwood Park police station. "The object was a bright red-orange color and appeared to be folding into itself. It shot up about 200 feet when the spotlight hit it. Also when the spotlight hit it the object puffed out. The object took off and was last seen at 3:22 a.m. DeGiovanni saw it before it disappeared. Before sight of it was lost, it appeared to fold inward from the bottom." Near Havana, Ill. March 14, 1946 "Paul Cummings Jr. was driving from Canton to Lincoln, Illinois and was about 10 miles east of Havana when he saw a bright ball of orange in color. It appeared in the middle of the road about 1 mile ahead. Douglas Gowdy was with him. The object came toward them about one foot above pavement. It occupied the whole roadbed. Paul drove off the road and both men jumped out. No sound of heat." Crop Circle MILAN, Ill. (UPI) - Farmer James Lawson doesn't know what made the perfect 40 to 50 -foot circle in his cornfield and he isn't ready to accept it was a UFO. "I was just making my first trip (on a combine) through the field," Lawson said. "The first thing I thought of was a UFO. "I thought 'holy smokes, what is this?' "The corn stalks are flattened in neat rows and clockwise swirl, hidden from the nearest intersection but visible from inside the field. "It feels weird. There's no road coming in, " said Lawson, 70. "It could've been here quite a while but the ears are still on the stalks. Maybe it's been a month or so." Since 1980, more than 600 similar circles have been reported in Britain with 250 recorded in 1989. Crop circle reports have also come in from the Soviet Union, Japan and New England..."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:16:11 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:34:09 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Gehrman >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:14:57 -0400 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:00:50 -0800 >>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 03:48:30 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>>The lack of alien spacecraft implies that they cannot get here >>>(time, distance, scarcity of alien technological civilizations >>>Since they can't get here, nobody has really seen them. >>>Since nobody has seen a genuine UFO, this means they can't be >>>coming here. >>There is overwhelming evidence that we are being visited by >>intelligent "others". But must they originate from other solar >>systems? The main reason that the scientific establishment >>rejects visitation is their insistence that star travel is >>impossible. >>Perhaps the intelligence agency that's responsible for >>squelching discussion on the nature and genesis of the "other" >>is playing a double game by debunking UFO while planting false >>information encouraging belief in the ETH and alien >>civilizations from other star systems. >Just what people make up the "scientific community"? The ancient >academics and fossilized physicists who have for ages been >making false claims of impossibility for all sorts of activity >such as airplane and rocket flights etc? Hi Stan, Larry, List, EBK, No, none of the above. I was actually thinking of someone a little more conventional: "As an object approaches the speed of light, its mass rises ever more quickly, so it takes more and more energy to speed it up further. It can in fact never reach the speed of light, because by then its mass would have become infinite, and by the equivalence of mass and energy, it would have taken an infinite amount of energy to get it there. For this reason, any normal object is forever confined by relativity to move at speeds slower than the speed of light." -- A Brief History Of Time by Stephen W. Hawking. >Here we go again with the completely false claim that star >travel is impossible. Sure it is, if one has to depend on >bicycles or skateboards or chemical rockets. But one need not so >depend. Repeating myself, it only takes one year at 1G >acceleration to get close to the speed of light. Fusion, for >example, provides particles having 10 millions times as much >energy per particle as in a chemical rocket. The fuel --isotopes >of hydrogen and helium, the lightest and most abundant >substances in the universe. One, of course, would use as much >cosmic freeloading as possible and take advantage of Einstein's >time dilation as one approaches the speed of light. The >gravitational fields of various heavenly bodies are available >free..we use them all the time on our deep space missions. >Obviously I won't rule out the space warping etc featured in the >outstanding JBIS article by Maccabee, Haisch, et al. Even though star travel may be possible in some very limited fashion, I haven't found any evidence that it is. I've read your article on the subject of star travel and none of your suggestions seem convincing. Why do our visitors need to be star folk? >Obviously one could and should make the point that the >observations of creatured manufactured craft, behaving in ways >that the craft we can make cannot behave,proves that aliens can >get here. I agree 100%, but even though they may be "alien" to humans, doesn't mean they must have come from the stars. You're excluding the possibility of "alien" civilizations either here
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 28 Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 15:27:56 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:38:00 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - >From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:52:05 +0000 >Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 13:35:43 -0400 >>Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 04:18:23 EST >>>Subject: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>>Over the many years of various story telling in Ufological >>>circles we have heard a great many stories, usually attributed >>>from nameless, faceless sources, who claim to be part of the >>>"intelligence community," CIA, DIA, AF and other super dooper, >>>super secret government agencies. >><snip> >>We are all aware of those who buy into the Hale-Bopp and >>Heaven's Gate cultism, end of the world scenarios and flying >>saucers are about to land on the White House lawn [and >>considering the credibility of its residents, why would they >>bother] planet alignments or projects like the supposed SERPO. >Hello Robert, Don and List, >Try to be an impartial observer & tend to agree with Don, but >have noted the shock / horror of investigators who get their >fingers burnt by misinformation from deniable "authority" >sources. This is why I tend to stick to sighting investigations and unquestionably real documents rather than hitch my TRUFO to a falling star. There have been "stars" in this field that have burned brightly for short times and then crashed... leaving lots of "debris." For example, the late and hardly lamented (by ufologists at least) Bill Cooper. Then there is Cooper's sometimes pseudo-buddy, John Lear (who entered the lecture halls with body guards). How about Lazar (still around but not burning as brightly). These people and others provided "good information" on what is going on on the inside. And now we have the Serpo Revelations. They have yet to be proven in any convincing way. I'm not totally averse to collecting info that appears to relate to TS activities of the government when the sources are known. Consider, for example: http://brumac.8k.com/HawkTales which, if accurate, reveal long-term covert activities relating to gov't UFO activities (but not trips to another planet). However, I wouldn't use this info as "proof" the TRUFOS (or AFI's - Alien Flying Craft) are real and the government knows it. Rather, I'd stick with reconstructing the history of what happened on the inside from actual documents such as from the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 28 Budd Hopkins' 01-21-06 NYC UFO Seminar From: The Intruders Foundation <Ifinfo1.nul> Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:09:16 EST Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:46:36 -0500 Subject: Budd Hopkins' 01-21-06 NYC UFO Seminar Intruders Foundation Seminar Series Announcement Abductee Panel Discussion Saturday, January 21, 2006 Back by popular demand, the Intruders Foundation (IF) will present an abductee panel discussion in which several UFO abductees will speak about their extraordinary experiences and how they have dealt with them. Always compelling, these first- hand accounts offer the audience a rare chance to hear exactly what occurs during abduction, and what led these individuals to begin the process of exploring their memories. The evening's dialogue will touch heavily on the opinions expressed by Dr. Susan Clancy in her recent book, Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped By Aliens, which contend that sleep paralysis, established beliefs systems, faulty hypnosis practices, and memory contamination by media and Hollywood offer the most likely explanations for alien abduction accounts. A free dialogue period will provide audience members a chance to question the speakers about their encounters and their judgment of Dr. Clancy's research and conclusions. Budd Hopkins will introduce the panel members (who desire anonymity) and will add his own comments. (NOTE 1: Due to the need for witness confidentiality, we do not release the names of our participating panelists.) (NOTE 2: IF has extended an invitation to Dr. Clancy to participate in this seminar and hopes that she decides to attend, but has not yet received her response.) REGISTRATION & INFORMATION The seminar will be held on January 21st at the new meeting rooms of A.R.E., located on the SECOND FLOOR at 241 W. 30th Street (between 7th and 8th Avenues), New York, NY. The price of the seminar is $30 for non-members and $20 for members of IF, seniors and students. Reservations must be made by telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a first come, first served basis. Payment must be made in advance to secure the reservation. Make checks payable to the Intruders Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011. Book early! Only 60 reservations will be accepted! On-street parking is generally available in the neighborhood. The seminar will begin at 7:30 PM and end at 10:00 PM. Doors open at 7:00 PM. There will be a one half-hour intermission, during which light complimentary refreshments will be served. A book table will offer books, videotapes and other material for sale to those interested. For additional information, call IF at 212-645-5278. Hope to see you there! --- UPCOMING SEMINARS =E2=80=93 Mark Your Calendars! * February 25, 2006: Subject To Be Announced --- The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the interests of open-minded scientific learning and the free exchange of research, ideas, and theories. IF makes no specific claims or endorsements regarding any materials, views, or subject matter presented by our guests. --- Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 28 Is The Singularity Near? From: Bob Soetebier <xxxx.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 00:32:49 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:51:14 -0500 Subject: Is The Singularity Near? Is The Singularity Near? In relation to this paragraph (on essentially the last page) of Whitley Streiber's Dec. 26, 2005, Journal article http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/ titled, Communion Twenty Years On: "Some intelligent species have been able to see that their intelligence was a precious asset that could actually intensify itself. They have learned to increase the quantity of this valuable commodity by altering themselves, by creating machine intelligence, and by conferring it on other species on their planets. As if we=92d hit upon the idea of genetically engineering brains to greater intelligence, and included not only ourselves but the animal world as well. In such places, life becomes very, very rich." Note the following (which is the very) first paragraph of the article, The Law Of Accelerating Returns, by Ray Kurzweil. (He's the genius who invented the computer photo/print scanner, along with voice-recognition software/technology, and much more.) : "An analysis of the history of technology shows that technological change is exponential, contrary to the common- sense 'intuitive linear' view. So we won=92t experience 100 years of progress in the 21st century =97 it will be more like 20,000 years of progress (at today=92s rate). The 'returns', such as chip-speed and cost-effectiveness, also increase exponentially. There=92s even exponential growth in the rate of exponential growth. Within a few decades, machine intelligence will surpass human intelligence, leading to The Singularity=97technological change so rapid and profound it represents a rupture in the fabric of human history. The implications include the merger of biological and nonbiological intelligence, immortal software- based humans, and ultra-high levels of intelligence that expand outward in the universe at the speed of light." Here's the URL for Kurzweil's article: http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html?printable=3D1 Also note that Ray Kurzweil=92s latest book is titled, The Singularity Is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology [ISBN: 0670033847]. See this URL for more info on his book: http://www.bookbrowse.com/reviews/index.cfm?book_number=3D1699 Frankly, though, at the rate were going (environmentally; run- away global warming; war mongering; etc.) chances don't look too good for our 'civilization' surviving much beyond another 5 - 20 years... which just barely breaks through the threshold (minimum 10 years - more likely at least 20 to 30 years-plus)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 28 UFO Over Necochea Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 11:38:51 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:54:29 -0500 Subject: UFO Over Necochea Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology December 28, 2005 ----- Source: Planeta UFO Date: 12.28.05 ARGENTINA: UFO OVER NECOCHEA On the evening of December 26 several witnesses - Marcelo Pintacuda among them, as he performed various duties at the Port of Necochea-Quequen - noticed a large strange circular object, yellow in color, that flew over the skies of Necochea. He managed to capture the image on his cellphone. The object vanished toward the west of the city after having been visible for several minutes. Mr. Pintacuda was engaged in supervising the unloading of fuel oil from the Antares I vessel to the Necochea Power Station, property of Centrales de la Costa Atlantica SA, which employs this fuel for operating purposes. The Necochea Power Station is located in the Port of Necoceha next to the Quequen River and facing the sea. Pintacuda is an agent for this branch and was engaged in fire watch activities at the time during the unloading of 8000 tons of fuel oil to the station. The incident is currently under investigation and the images are being downloaded presently from his Motorola C650 cellphone. The month of December has been rich in UFO activity over Necochea. We should keep in mind the cases involving employees of the DYCASA company, who are working on the expansion of the breakwater in the port itself, which also faces the Necochea Power Station. A considerable number of people saw this large object that vanished over the sea and toward the south. The cases involving a Necochean family that saw a similar round object as they returned home along the coastal route, and another family that sew a similar object over the beach should not be discarded. As we said, all cases are currently under investigation.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 29 Filer's Files #53 - 2005 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:47:06 EST Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:09:15 -0500 Subject: Filer's Files #53 - 2005 Filer's Files #53 - 2005 George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern Vice President of Skywatch International December 28, 2005, Webmaster Chuck Warren www.nationalufocenter.com Happy Holidays This week's files cover: Mars -- Landing Arrow and Bull's Eye, China Pyramid Construction, and UFO Shapes and Ionization In addition, witnesses saw UFOs over Arizona, California, Florida, Hawaii, Indiana, Maryland, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, and Pennsylvania. Many witnesses saw UFOs in Argentina, Canada, China, Finland, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom.. The purpose of these files is to report weekly the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world. These Files assume that extraterrestrial intelligent life not only exists, but my hypothesis is that of the over one hundred UFOs reported each week, many represent alien craft. The United States Air Force Project conducted a worldwide investigation of UFOs from 1947 until December 1969, when it disbanded its investigative team. We are continuing the investigation and make the assumption we are not alone in the universe. Sacred ancient writings, our earliest structures such as the pyramids, and artifacts on the Moon and Mars point to alien intelligence. Shapes of UFOs and Ionization Reports and images of UFOs come in all shapes and sizes, with odd shaped lights, disks, cylinders and triangles being most frequently reported. The true fundamental shape of the UFO may be concealed or distorted by the ionization of the air around the UFOs. I saw a UFO coming out of water like a submarine with blue and green ionization surrounding the disk. NASA engineers Paul Hill and James Mc Campbell suggested this was caused by the propulsion system of the craft. The craft I saw seemed highly electrically charged. Photo thanks to Scott in Las Vegas "An ion is an atom or group of atoms with a net electric charge. A negatively charged ion, which has more electrons in its electron shell than it has protons in its nucleus, is known as an anion, for it is attracted to anodes, and a positively charged ion, which has fewer electrons than protons, is known as a cation (pronounced cat-eye-on), for it is attracted to cathodes. An ion with a single atom is a monatomic ion and an ion with more than one is a polyatomic ion. The process of converting into ions and the state of being ionized is called ionization. The recombining of ions and electrons to form neutral atoms is called recombination. A collection of non-aqueous ions, or even a gas containing a proportion of charged particles, is called a plasma, which is called the fourth state of matter because its properties are quite different from solids, liquids, and gases. The US is working on an ion engine for its spacecraft. Thanks to the Free Encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionization#_blank Smells in the air often reported during sightings suggest ionization. Imaging by various types of cameras also indicate an ionization of the atmosphere around the craft. Air ionization also explains the diversity of colors. The Nevada article shows what happens as different air molecules are excited at different energy levels. Some of these craft glow like electric and neon signs similar to what happens with aurora borealis. Video and photographs show a distortion of the shape. Exceptionally, high speed objects tend to distort shape in the camera. Another possibility is the shape may be concealed or distorted by space- time distortions arising from an anti-gravity propulsion system. An advanced technology or an unknown phenomena could explain many of the 500 or so reports we receive each month. Mars Landing Arrow and Bulls-eye Dan Reichel writes: I find it truly incredible that most "Cydonia researchers", fail to point out the "rocket ship" (sort of Buck Rogers design) that is left of the oft-pointed-out "Fortress", and that the "Fortress" is actually an "arrow" between the sand sculpture of the rocket ship and a incredibly huge "bulls-eye" on the flat terrain near the Face. Photo courtesy of NASA/JPL. Pyramids on left, fortress center, bulls-eye on right. My son is a Nintendo 64 expert, and were he playing some game entitled "JPL and the Viking 2 Lander", no one would have to explain to him the symbolism of a rocket ship, arrow, and a bulls-eye. He would know, in the grand design, where he was supposed to set down the Lander. Yet a whole laboratory of scientists and engineers, at JPL in 1976, failed to understand this symbolism, and chose to set the Viking 2 Lander down elsewhere on Mars. Can someone, anyone, tell me "How much clearer do the messages need to be before we begin to understand them?" (The aforementioned sand sculptures and bullseye are easily seen in Viking 2 image f035a72 available from the NSSDC website. The bullseye is in flat terrain and therefore cannot be attributed to "light and shadow". It is approximately 1.5 miles, 2 kilometers, in diameter.) Thanks to Daniel G. Reichel, Ph.D. ANCIENT PYRAMIDS IN CHINA The History Channel aired nationwide in the U.S., an hour-long documentary on the Pyramids of China, featuring exclusive video footage of the pyramids of Xian taken by Hartwig Hausdorf. According to ancient Chinese legend, over one hundred pyramids discovered in China are the legacy of extraterrestrial visitors. At the turn of the century, two Australian traders discovered over one hundred pyramids and when they asked the custodian of a local monastery about them, they were told that, according to 5,000 year old records housed in the monastery, the pyramids were said to be much older. The traders were told that the pyramids belonged to an age when the "old emperors" reigned in China, and that the emperors always stressed the fact that they did not originate on Earth. Rather they were the descendants of the "sons of heaven, who roared down to this planet on their fiery metallic dragons". The traders were told that the pyramids had been built by visitors from outer space. Hartwig Hausdorf a German researcher visited the 'forbidden zones' surrounding the city of Xian in Central China, Shensi Province, where he found six of the legendary pyramids. Some of these pyramids are now in quite poor condition, largely due to being plundered by local farmers although the government does not allow excavations. The Chinese pyramids, vary between 25 to 100 meters in height except for one, that is to the north, in the valley of Qin Lin, lies what has become known as the Great White Pyramid. It is immense, approximately 300 metres in height (1000 feet)! The Great Pyramid of Egypt is 481 feet by comparison. The Chinese government has built a launch pad for their space program near the Great White Pyramid, and restrict travel to the area. An ancient city carved out of rock, atop a sheer cliff has been found with straight grooves cut into the cliff face. The walls are cut perfectly straight like a laser was used. Ancient stone discs found nearby similar to DVDs have been found nearby. They have also found well-preserved bodies that resemble a race of ancient Celts or Hungarians. The Chinese pyramids are very similar to Mexico pyramids and perhaps they were built by the same "Sons of Heaven"? One pyramid is as large as the Pyramid of the Sun of Teotihuacan in Mexico at upper left.. Most are flat topped, and some have small temples on top. Hausdorf is the author of "The White Pyramid" and "Satellites of the Gods." He claims the Chinese Roswell UFO crash occurred 12,000 years ago, that includes graves containing skeletons of strange looking humanoid beings with large heads for aliens just over four feet tall. http://www.historychannel.com/ Arizona Tiny Lights SOCORRO -- Last night around 5:30 p.m. (December 1, 2005) I was driving a friend home when I saw a bunch of tiny flickering lights on. They were flicking all in order and covered a large part of the sky north of us. They were not stars. I called my husband and told him to look outside and he saw them too as well as my friend and her husband and kids. It stayed in the sky for about ten minutes and they took off flying behind the mountain. Thanks to Brian Vike California Triangle Santa Barbara -- The witness observed a large triangle with lights hovering over the freeway on November 26, 2005, at 6:30 PM. There was one light that was spinning around the ship and three white lights in the shape of a triangle with one at each point. There was one red light right in the middle of the craft. The ship was not very high, in the sky. It was about as high as a plane that is about to start landing. There weren't other lights around like street lights or stars. Pittsburg -- On December 11, 2005, at 9:30 PM, we saw an object flying in the clouds while in the backyard and we followed it to the front yard. As we watched the craft it stopped then it began to fly again. It was bright orange or it had a bright orange glow to it, and as it got further away, it began to speed up. It emitted some kind of fireballs, dropping them one at a time about three times in a row. The balls were bright orange also like the object resembling fire. We watched the craft until it disappeared out of sight and it moved in a circular motion as it flew. Thanks to Peter Davenport Director National UFO Reporting Center www.nuforc.com Florida Oval Crawfordville -- The witness while driving home reports seeing a long object full of light between the trees on December 13, 2005, at 8 PM. When we cleared the trees for a moment my brother-in-law and I saw a long shaped object that was full of a yellow light. It was big and brighter than a airplane fully lit up. We then passed behind more trees and when we cleared the trees it was gone. Having a witness with me is what made me want to report the incident. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Orlando -- The witness saw three objects moving at high speed on November 26, 2005, at 6:30 PM. They were observed to criss-cross and move at high speed. He is close to both Orlando Airport and Orlando Executive Airport, but these were not planes. There was a low ceiling, and they disappeared from site, possibly going into clouds? Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Hawaii Two Orange Ovals Mililani, Oahu -- At 5:30 AM to 5:45 AM, on December 11, 2005, one oval orange object was moving horizontally toward the northeast passing right above our house in Mililani. It was a dim, orange colored light. The weather was clear and the object was flying over at high altitude or possibly outer space. I could only compare the object with star lights and its dim, orange color. The object seemed to be moving slightly zigzag at times. It moved faster than conventional airplanes and took three minutes to cross the sky. While wondering what it might be, less than a minute later, I noticed another oval object (the same color and size as previous one) was moving horizontally from North to South passing over our house. It was flying at the same altitude and at the same speed as the previous one. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Illinois Spinning Flat Objects Chicago -- I was on the porch smoking, around 9 PM, on December 11, 2005, and I saw a bright flat in shape object flying southeast. It was moving in a spinning motion, and looked like one side of it was the color of fire. I immediately called my daughter, so that she could see that I was not seeing things! She couldn't believe what she saw either! It continued to move higher into the sky, and I saw another one coming from another direction and it looked like it went right up to the other one, and both of them just kept on going. They both moved in a spinning motion, looked flat, and had the color of fire on one side. Very weird! Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Indiana Glowing Entity Oolitic -- Lynn Taylor writes: Jonathon, my son-in-law, works the night shift in Bedford, twenty miles south of Bloomington, Indiana. Twice this summer at different locations on Highway 37S, he observed a self-luminescent humanoid shape on the side of the roadway around 8:45-9:00 PM. [] In both instances he described the entity as having a slender torso area and a "big round head." The entity or object was not animate, and did not react to Jonathon's vehicle. The figure glowed with a brilliant white light, obscuring any detailed features. Because of the brightness of the entity, Jonathon was unable to get a good look at the lower portion of its body on either occasion. The first encounter occurred near Highway 50W exit near Oolitic. The entity/object was standing on the west shoulder, about ten feet from the pavement in June, 2005. In the second encounter, just south of Tapp Road, the entity/object was standing in the median of the four-lane highway. In both instances, Jonathon looked into his rear view mirror to see the entity/object still standing there, still glowing. That fact would seem to eliminate the possibility of reflected light from his headlights and on his return through the area, the entity was gone. Anyone having witnessed this object or entity along Highway 37 between Bloomington and Bedford, Indiana is asked to contact AAARC. Lynn TaylorLynn.nul Maryland Saucer Shaped Object Annapolis -- There was a strange set of lights in the sky right above the tree line moving slowly down toward the earth on December 12, 2005, at 7 PM. There was a light in the center and decreasingly smaller lights on either side of the center light obviously wrapping around what appeared to be a flying saucer. It sat still after I noticed it, then, it slowly moved up and out of sight. I've never seen anything like it. Nevada Lights Filmed LAS VEGAS -- Scott writes, "These images are from December 20, 2005. I was in front of my home when I saw a craft approaching from the west. I started filming just in time to see the light show. I filmed this craft for about two minutes and then it flew out of my visual range. I have not edited the photos at all. They are taken right off the camcorder. This would be another spinning top/black triangle craft." Scott writes, "I've been asking myself for a long time now what is an angel supposed to look like and wondering if I have been seeing angels all along piloting these ships I see. Please read/view with a grain of salt. I see things, especially with the ships, that could be termed by appearances alone to be evil. I am finally starting to be objective though and have completely considered the idea that maybe I am seeing angels and I thought I was seeing demons. Yes, the demon word. The only way I can explain what I mean is to enclose two hand drawn sketches of how the ships look, or at least how they look to me." At first I was terrified at what I was witnessing. I started seeing things in 2004 that I thought were coming to get me. I still have the whole anti Christ theory in the back of my mind but I'm trying to be optimistic about my situation because I see what most would call demon energy/ships/beings. But then I had a thought. What if all angels looked like demons and we would never know that based on what the history books tell us. What if both angels and demons looked scary to us? But what if the true form of an angel is in the form of a dragon- like/dinosaur-like being. Since Lucifer was an angel and he took his crew with him, he would still look like his fellow angels back in heaven wouldn't he? I am submitting some rather bizarre photographs for you to see. I do not in any way expect you to understand them, accept them, and know what they are. I just want you to view with an open mind and tell me what you think. This is what I see all the time. God Bless. Thanks to Scott New Jersey Boomerang and Balls Parsippany -- The witness reports seeing a boomerang shaped craft on December 7, 2005, at 10 PM. The hovering lights veered left and then sped right. The boomerang shaped object had two lights in front, a red light in back that seemed suspended from craft. It hovered at an estimated 2,000 feet, veered left at a slow speed, then right and mildly accelerated speed. There were no towers or buildings nearby. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Keansburg -- I live very near to the ocean and have a clean view of the night sky. I was just leaving my house on December 3, 2005, at 5:45 PM, and out over the ocean, I saw a very bright "star" like object in the sky. It was enormous compared to the other visible stars in the sky. At that moment, I noticed other aircraft in the sky around this object. I thought it may be military planes given the fact that they seemed small and flew very quickly. One of these aircraft flew up to the object and shined what looked like a spotlight at it. Then, it flew away from the object still shining the light as it headed south. This aircraft, I noted, had only 3 red lights and may be a hint as to what type of plane it was. There were about four other planes flying to and away from this object that I could see. It was just very eerie. My husband and one of my children also witnessed this. I would guess that it was about 20,000 feet in altitude between NJ and Staten Island. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com New Mexico Meeting with Dan Fry Alamogordo -- Kristen Vasques, a college graduate writes: There I was, at last in the Southwest where I longed to visit and I could "see" UFOs coming down onto those hills in the past. It was such a strange sensation. Yet, there was no sense of fear or alarm connected with it at all. I was not only aware that they had been there and had intermingled with people who lived there in the distant past, but it was also very clear they would be coming again. I brought up the subject of UFOs with the healing family I was visiting and they knew an engineer who had made contact with aliens in that area. He had been stationed on the nearby White Sands Missile Base in the 50s, and had a series of close encounters. The man's name was Dan Fry I was spell-bound and totally captivated by their story. Dan Fry, they said, had been contacted over a period of 4 years before someone from an extra-planetary race actually came down and met him in person. Over those 4 years they had been in communication and had convinced Dan that they had good intentions. They explained to Dan that they were working as Emissaries of higher forces, and were here to help Earth and the human race survive into the next millennium. Our existence, they explained, had become much more tenuous and on the verge of annihilation than our governments were letting on to. In those four years of "long distance" communication, before any aliens came to live on Earth, Dan continued helping them to get to know us and our way of living on planet Earth. He would explain things about life, politics and conditions here. They had a special request, as they planned to eventually have some of their people come and live among us on Earth. They needed a real "crash course" on Earth and everything human. Dan got books from the library for those four years. Dan would set them on a platform, they'd teleport them to their ships, copy them, and have them returned to Dan the next day. Thanks to Kristan (to be continued) New York Large Black Object Long Island City -- I was watching a construction sight across the street from my window on the 22nd floor of 1 Court Square on December 13, 2005, at 11:13 AM. A large dull black object that at first, I mistook as something the crane was lifting was flying in the background. I asked my co-worker what the hell is that? It started to move slowly. We also noticed the construction workers on the building next door pointing and watching the same object. Several other coworkers also came by as the object moved across Manhattan from East to West around 59th Street. It, then, traveled South, then reappeared in front of us again on the north side of the building. We called coworkers in our office in NYC. They saw it, too, and couldn't make out what it was? They described it as a large black box. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Pennsylvania Boomerang Harrisburg -- My son and I were at the Giant Market on Linglestown Road on December 13, 2005, at 6:30 PM, when we saw a warm yellow light. It divided into two, three, then four lights of the same size lined up vertically. Then they disappeared. I then saw a flare just above the tree line and then very small individual points of light blinking on then off in different locations all over that area of sky. This much of the event probably lasted for about five minutes. We had seen something similar a week previously. It looked like this depiction. KING OF PRUSSIA -- The witness was playing outside with his dog on December 12, 2005, at 6:30 PM. when they saw a white boomerang, kind of like a lightless sort of glider. I called for someone from in house to come see the object but by the time they came out it was gone. Then, within minutes, I counted eight helicopters in the area of the object. I called people in Norristown, and they reported that they could also see the copters over the southern end of town [toward King of Prussia]. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Argentina Cattle Mutilation VERTIZ -- Inexplicata reports four Argentine Frisian cows were found dead and mutilated on December 13, 2005, at the "Los Hermanos" ranch in La Pampa. The leaseholder, Gustavo Steib, stated that "..from one day to the next, cows that were about to give birth were found dead, missing their genitalia, the nipples of their udders and a patch of hide, whose circular incision was perfect." The incisions were precise, clean and almost cauterized - it's like cutting and sealing at the same time to avoid hemorrhages." "The flesh rots at a high rate of twelve hours where it normally takes two or three days and the carcass is unmolested by carrion animals. Thanks to CIUFOS-LAPAMPA Translation (c) 2005. S. Corrales, IHU. Special thanks to Raul Oscar Chaves, Ciufos- LaPampa Canada Ice Circle SUDBURY, ONTARIO -- Paul Anderson reports, "While only five known crop circle reports were received by Canadian Crop Circle Research Network CCCRN this past summer / fall, another "ice circle" was found on December 9, 2005, near Sudbury, in snow- covered creek ice. It is 12-18 metres (40-60 feet) diameter, with a 2.5-5 centimetre (1-2 inch) deep 'V'-shaped groove in the ice defining the circle's perimeter. There is another possible groove a few inches inside of the outer groove." Photos here: http://www.cccrn.ca/sudbury05b.jpg, http://www.cccrn.ca/sudbury05c.jpg http://www.cccrn.ca/sudbury05d.jpg The circle is in a bend of the creek, so it is possible this is a type of ice ring that has formed from a swirling eddy, yet the sharp, incised edge is more difficult to explain, and is similar to the ice circle at Delta, Ontario in 2000. A strong, unpleasant smell had been reported a few weeks previously in the area. Thanks to David Chevrier, Brian Vike, Nancy Talbott, Jeff Wilson and Andreas Muller for their assistance and input. The location is fairly remote and as of yet, CCCRN Ontario hasn't been able to go to the site, but other efforts are still being made. Thanks to Paul Anderson Manitoba -- MUFON reports -- The witness states: I was working in remote Northern Manitoba, crushing aggregate for the highways. When I saw lights for ten minutes that really scared/freaked me out because I had never seen anything like that before. I then saw it descend quickly into nowhere. I, then, saw it come back in less than five minutes. I was brave enough to take photos, so I took many and three showed up on my camera. The second time this object showed up it was farther away and I still managed to get a good photo. This object must have been sitting still at a hover, or I believe I would not have received any real clarity of the object. I am only sending one photo as I wish to be contacted on the others I have. Thanks to MUFON www.mufon.com POINT ATKINSON, B.C. -- While crossing Burrard Bridge we noticed a pair of green lights blinking on November 26, 2005, at 11 PM. They were blinking in one second intervals. Then, another green light appeared but blinked out of sync with the others. Another person was walking towards the city and we stopped him to ask if he could see these lights and he verified that he could. The lights appeared to be coming from above the clouds and shining through the cloud cover. There were also spotlights panning across the sky from the ground. These were white, related to a spectator event in Vancouver city. Very strange. Thank you to the witness for the report. Thanks to Brian Vike Egypt Lights Over Western Desert CAIRO -- I took photos of the UFO on December 14, 2005, at 6:25 PM with eight lights over the Western Desert. I would like to show them for examination and verification by experts if possible. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Finland Anomalous Phenomenon Helsinki -- At least one of our national networks (MTV3) reported in more than one news program a luminescent or highly reflective trail/object sighted over the morning skies of Helsinki on December 13, 2005, at 1:24 AM. Two things make this report interesting. First, there was quite a number of eyewitnesses, at least one of which had captured very good footage of the phenomenon with his camcorder. A short clip of that was shown on the news program. It moved quite slowly along a trajectory and most likely reflected the rising sun rather than emitted light of its own. There was a separate report about a radar malfunction at Helsinki Airport starting from 8.55 AM which lasted for 25 minutes delaying a total of 16 flights. There are two complementary radar systems at HEL, one of which didn't display any traffic during the malfunction. Apparently, the system came back online as the GPS synchronizing clock was replaced. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Mexico Flying Triangle Video MEXICO CITY -- Ana Luisa Cid reports: This video was taken by Sergio Javier Mayon Cigarroa, whose camera recorded the passing of a triangular UFO over the Torre Blanca district of the Mexican capital on December 16, 2005. The 16 year old witness was in the company of his younger sister Melissa engaged in a routine skywatch from the roof of his house. He was recording a static flying object when he noticed that another UFO was crossing his field of vision, clearly identifying it as a triangular object. The evidence was captured on a Sony handycam, model DCR-HC15, at approximately 8:15 p.m. It is important to note that on that same evening various sightings were reported over Mexico City and that the "Hechos" news program on Televisi=C3=B3n Azteca transmitted the image of four luminous spheres flying over southern Mexico City in real time. Thanks to Ana Luisa Cid www.analuisacid.com and translation by Scott Corrales. Journal of Hispanic Ufology Japan Chevron SEIKA-CHO (Kyoto Prefecture) A slow, silent boomerang with 5 dim lights was traveling about 75 meters from the ground in Japan.The witness states, "As I was waiting to catch the bus after work on December 12, 2005, at 6:18 PM, I looked up into the clear sky to look at the moon and what I thought might have been Venus and noticed a somewhat boomerang-shaped craft gliding silently heading South, almost directly over my head. It was dark, and I guess it was about 75 meters high. It looked to be about 20 times the size of the moon and had five significantly sized faint lights. There was one at each corner, and the other two were spaced just between the corners." The craft looked black, and I could somewhat make out the shape of body as it flew by; it looked like a boomerang. Between each of the circles there was a smooth connection so the best way to describe it was like it was a lumpy boomerang. It made no sound and its speed was also too slow to be an airplane. It looked like it was just gliding along. It flew with the point (to clarify, it wasn't pointy, it was rounded all the way around) of the chevron first. My background: I was born and raised in America and studied Japanese and Computer Science related fields in University. I was at the bus stop of "Hikari-dai Itchome Minami" in Hikari-dai, Seika-cho, Soraku-gun, Kyoto prefecture, Japan at 18:18 on 12/12/2005 just east of an NTT research building when this happened. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com New Zealand Missing Time Judy Chilham estate -- Staying at my grandmother's estate, I was sleeping at the time in the separate outhouse. I had been feeling uneasy, as if someone were watching me. I had trouble getting to sleep. Suddenly, all was lit in the quaint country themed bedroom. Knowing that there was no traffic around for miles, it couldn't have been a car. There was a tremendously loud "whirrbigerringizeeing" sound. I peered through my curtains, terrified of the possibilities. My mind raced and the only motorized vehicle I could think of to be making such mechanical sounds was a prized John Deer tractor of Grandmother's 4th husband, Jamerson, who had passed away under suspicious circumstances. No one knew how to drive it. After coming to terms with the undeniable conclusion that it must be a UFO, I paid very close attention to its movement. It made circles in the sky, getting closer and closer, until I could see detailed engravings of the most peculiar nature on the rim of the UFO. Soon, it stopped movement altogether and hovered above my grandmother's chicken coup. Suddenly, I came to. It appeared I had blacked out for an unknown amount of time. When I rushed to the window, there was no trace of the UFO. The only reason I can find to account for the missing time when I passed out, could have been caused by the UFO and its suspected alien passengers on board equipped with powerful telepathic capabilities. Thanks to MUFON www.mufon.com UK/England Brightly Lit Object Lichfield -- It was a dark night and an extremely bright object could be seen through the clouds on November 27, 2005, at 3 AM. It instantaneously moved 3-4 miles back and forth, so quickly you didn't see it move. At one point it looked slightly triangular but its speed and intensity of light made it look very odd. We took a pretty poor quality photo on the cell phone, where you can make out the offside door pillar as a point of reference and the camera was pointing up and the photo taken in the rear passenger seat. I don't know what the square shape is, at first I thought it was the car mirror but that wasn't in view of the camera. There also is a tree looking object, but there were none that close. There was no camera flash nor were there any lights on that particular road. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.UFOcenter.com Filer's Files: Worldwide Reports of UFO Sightings Major George A. Filer USAF (Ret) & David E. Twichell are happy to announce the release of our new book. If you like Filer's Files newsletter and his monthly report in the MUFON Journal, you'll love the book! It is a collection of some of the most thought provoking UFO sighting and abduction reports from around the world by average citizens, trained observers, astronauts and U.S. presidents. This is a review of many of the best cases in the last several years. The book is $13.95 plus $3.05 tax & shipping Send check to address below or Paypal Reminder Please Send in Membership Donation "After many years of investigating and researching UFOs I decided in 1997, to publish a weekly newsletter called Filer's Files that more of the public should be told about our reports and investigations. I have accomplished this by giving talks at libraries, universities and UFO conferences. With the help of our webmaster, Chuck Warren, we started a website several years ago often getting a half million hits per month. Frankly, we need your help and support just to meet web, publication, office and webmaster expenses. Only a few people who have enjoyed these files for eight years have chosen to provide a donation. As of January 2006, I'm requesting a donation of 50 cents a week or $25 per year to enable me to continue with Filer's Files. These files cannot exist without your help.So you won't miss a single breaking news story or the increased evidence for UFO and life in the universe. George A. Filer has been bringing you the latest in UFO news since 1995, on radio, television and the Internet. Don't miss the latest images of UFOs from Earth and Mars. Subscribe today and receive a free UFO Photo CD. Holidays are the time to donate, to buy a book, or a CD of the last eight years of these files. Be sure to ask for the CD, Send check or money order to: George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055. You can also go to: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul You may use Paypal, Visa, Master Charge, or American Express. REAL ESTATE Relocation Help! If your considering a move get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help you relocate, buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at: Majorstar @ aol.com Join MUFON! Become a MUFON member today! Benefits of membership include a subscription to the monthly UFO Journal which contains current investigations, sightings reports, articles by world-renowned researchers and more. To join now, click here. www.mufon.com Filer's Files is copyrighted 2005 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. God Bless Our Troops.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Shell From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:13:05 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:11:01 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Shell >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:16:11 -0800 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >I agree 100%, but even though they may be "alien" to humans, >doesn't mean they must have come from the stars. You're >excluding the possibility of "alien" civilizations either here >on earth or from somewhere else in our solar system. I think >that's a serious mistake. You are absolutely right, Ed. And it is equally as much a mistake to exclude the possibility of "alien" civilizations from "somewhen" else here on earth or in our solar system. Ultimately, time travel may prove far easier than long distance space travel. We have to learn to think outside our three- dimensional box. Spacetime is multi-dimensional. One key point that comes across in so many abduction stories is that the "aliens" don't seem able to understand our concept of time. It
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 29 Lackland AFB Case December 1954 From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:05:06 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:12:21 -0500 Subject: Lackland AFB Case December 1954 Greetings Listarians and Lurkers, This is for our database maintenance researchers. From the Phenomena Research Reporting Center (Robert Gribble) logs: December, 1954. Lackland AFB, TX encounter with a typical disc, 30 feet from pilot class 54J. As a military student pilot approached the object, it took off vertically at high speed.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 29 Aliens & Environmental Concerns & Warnings From: Bob Soetebier <xxxx.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:36:32 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:22:16 -0500 Subject: Aliens & Environmental Concerns & Warnings Earthly environmental concerns and warnings - especially with regards to the hazards of nuclear fallout and nuclear waste ollution - indicated to them by Aliens, have been reported by contactees. Apparently, this has also been the case -- albeit, to a lesser extent - by abductees; some of who have retained such messages via conscious recall, while in other cases the memories have resurfaced while under hypnosis. -- Regardless whether one puts much stock in the credibility of these reported and recalled messages, it certainly would be illogical for us not to heed their warning messages about the fast-accelerating environmental degradation of this planet. Their (the Aliens) concern may stem from a benevolent outlook - hopefully, at least for some of them - toward mankind. This may be the case even if they were only to look upon us as "recreational entertainment" as "pets" or a "human zoo." They may merely be taking an indirect (=91Prime Directive' style) route in trying to illuminate a technologically less-advanced species on the error of their ways. (Although, it certainly is extremely difficult to rationalize the reported physical- intrusions and PTSD psychological trauma suffered by many abductees along these lines.) Perhaps, their (again, the Aliens) concern is less altruistic via a "proprietary" interest. Are we are their "cattle"? Then again, maybe they see us as "The Threat"? After all, not too few humans certainly exhibit warlike and aggressive tendencies. In that case - with the increasing proliferation of powerful and dangerously "dirty" nuclear weaponry - perhaps the Aliens may be seeking to "quarantine" us on this planet... or, at least within this solar system. All this is assuming that Aliens are not somehow further promoting our decline. You never know...maybe carbon dioxide, or even carbon monoxide, is their "breath of life." (If you have not already seen it --at least for a rainy day diversion, be sure to check out the movie, The Arrival, starring Charlie Sheen.) Whatever the Aliens' concern/s, it is the height of ignorance to not take such the environmental warnings to heart. Although, it may quite possibly be much too late for that if we are already well beyond the accelerated cascading point of no return. As a point of note: Back in the early 1970s, I remember watching a Jacques Cousteau TV special on the deteriorating state of our oceans. He publicly noted in that TV documentary that - from what he had personally witnessed on his multitude of undersea explorations -- we had to immediately stop polluting our air and water and start to clean up the oceans. He further said that if we did not reverse the pollution process by (at the latest) the end of that 1970s decade, it would be too late: We would be beyond the point of no return. --- Speaking of devastatingly polluting (permanently!) our air and water worldwide, check out the issues related to "depleted uranium" (DU), which is used in all military armor-piercing munitions... bullets; anti-tank projectiles; missiles; etc. (It sure puts the "Support Our Troops" slogan in a new light, since they -- along with innocent civilians... meaning all of us! -- are directly affected by breathing/ingesting the resultant pulverized and atomized DU particles. These DU particles also spread worldwide via wind and water.) Here are some excerpts from recent articles about DU. The URLs for each complete article are included after each excerpt. --- 12/21/05 Heads roll at Veterans Administration Mushrooming depleted uranium (DU) scandal blamed by Bob Nichols Project Censored Award Winner Considering the tons of depleted uranium used by the U.S., the Iraq war can truly be called a nuclear war. <snip> ... a special report published by eminent scientist Leuren Moret naming depleted uranium as the definitive cause of the =91Gulf War Syndrome' has fed a growing scandal about the continued use of uranium munitions by the US Military." Bernklau continued, "This malady (from uranium munitions), that thousands of our military have suffered and died from, has finally been identified as the cause of this sickness, eliminating the guessing. The terrible truth is now being revealed." He added, "Out of the 580,400 soldiers who served in GW1 (the first Gulf War), of them, 11,000 are now dead! By the year 2000, there were 325,000 on Permanent Medical Disability. This astounding number of =91Disabled Vets' means that a decade later, 56% of those soldiers who served have some form of permanent medical problems!" The disability rate for the wars of the last century was 5 percent; it was higher, 10 percent, in Viet Nam. <snip> "The long-term effects have revealed that DU (uranium oxide) is a virtual death sentence," stated Berklau. "Marion Fulk, a nuclear physical chemist, who retired from the Lawrence Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab, and was also involved with the Manhattan Project, interprets the new and rapid malignancies in the soldiers (from the 2003 Iraq War) as =91spectacular ... and a matter of concern!'" <snip> http://www.sfbayview.com/012605/headsroll012605.shtml --- What Is Depleted Uranium? Copyright =A92004 The Lone Star Iconoclast CRAWFORD =97 The Lone Star Iconoclast last week conducted a test by asking 20 Texans, representing all walks of life and from different territories of the state, "What are your views on depleted uranium?" Nineteen had no clue what the interviewer was talking about. One offered, "Isn't that the stuff that's hauled away from nuclear power plants?" None knew that depleted uranium (DU) is radioactive material being used in military ammunition and none knew that the U.S. military is utilizing weapons to launch these nuclear DU projectiles in Iraq. Likewise, not one of the queried Texans was aware that DU poses significant health threats not only to Iraqis, but to Americans as well, for the radioactivity spreads from continent to continent through the atmosphere and is brought home through soldiers to their families and associates. Uranium is one of the heaviest elements found in nature and increases in radioactivity as it decays. After enriched uranium which is to be used for nuclear fuel is extracted from natural uranium, the leftover nuclear waste, commonly known as depleted uranium, is stored in steel cylinders for public protection. Depleted uranium is heavy, cheap, abundant, and is provided free of charge to arms manufacturers as a way of disposing of the material. DU rounds are used in a variety of high intensity weapons and is used in a variety of forms. Since the projectiles are so powerful, the DU gets hot and oxides into aerosol-like particles that can be less than 10 microns or smaller than a white blood cell and are, therefore, easily inhalable. According to a study conducted by Iliya Pesic in a paper entitled "Depleted Uranium =97 Ethics of the Silver Bullet" http://cseserv.engr.scu.edu/StudentWebPages/IPesic/ResearchPaper.htm there are serious long-term effects of DU in Iraq. "In regions heavily hit by DU, studies have shown that numerous civilians have extensive problems with their immune systems, malignant cancers (such as ludicrously high leukemia rates), heart problems, and bizarre abnormal birth defects (such as children born without eyes, ears, tongue, etc.). In some regions, leukemia has become one of the main forms of cancer- related death." Pesic continues, "Contaminated agriculture and water supplies help spread the DU dust which continues to hurt people in different regions where DU ammo was not used." Pesic notes that veterans and civilians exposed to DU have experienced extensive irreversible damage to kidney and partial kidney failure. "Cancers related to one's blood, bone, and immune system become common. There are also various other biological effects claimed from DU, such as chronic fatigue, respiratory problems, heart problems, digestive organ damage (e.g. liver failure and severe rectal bleeding), etc." <snip> http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/News/19news02.htm --- [The following excerpt was taken from Project Censored 2005 Top 25 Censored Stories" of 2003 -- 2004; specifically, "(#4) High Uranium Levels Found in Troops and Civilians", which can be found at the URL following the excerpt.]: <snip> UPDATE BY BOB NICHOLS: (Oklahoma City) Throughout the world people are familiar with the "smoking gun" solution so prized by murder mystery writers. Many think that once the smoking gun in any mystery is discovered, it is time for the "bad guys" to give up. Wish it were only so. The smoking guns are Sgt. Hector Vega, Sgt. Ray Ramos, Sgt. Agustin Matos and Cpl. Anthony Yonnone from New York's 442nd Guard Unit=97they are the first confirmed cases of inhaled uranium oxide exposure from the current Iraq conflict. Dr. Asaf Durokovic, professor of Nuclear Medicine at the Uranium Medical Research Centre http://www.umrc.net/ conducted the diagnostic tests. The story was released April 3, 2004 in the New York Daily News. There is no treatment and there is no cure. http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/180333p-156685c.html Leuren Moret reports, "In my research on depleted uranium during the past 5 years, the most disturbing information concerns the impact on the unborn children and future generations for both soldiers serving in the depleted uranium wars, and for the civilians who must live in the permanently radioactive contaminated regions. Today, more than 240,000 Gulf War veterans are on permanent medical disability and more than 11,000 are dead. They have been denied testing, medical care, and compensation for depleted uranium exposure and related illnesses since 1991." Moret continues "Even worse, they brought it home in their bodies. In some families, the children born before the Gulf War are the only healthy members. Wives and female partners of Gulf War veterans have reported a condition known as burning semen syndrome, and are now internally contaminated from depleted uranium carried in the semen of exposed veterans. Many are reporting reproductive illnesses such as endometriosis. In a U.S. government study, conducted by the Department of Veterans Affairs on post-Gulf War babies, 67% were found to have serious birth defects or serious illnesses. They were born without eyes (anophthalmos), ears, had missing organs, missing legs and arms, fused fingers, thyroid or other organ malformations." LIFE Photoessay: http://www.life.com/Life/essay/gulfwar/gulf01.html <snip> http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/4.html --- DU's Toxic Nano-Particles Pinpointed By Christopher Bollyn American Free Press 1-10-5 <snip> Leuren Moret, a Berkeley-based geo-scientist with expertise in atmospheric dust, corresponds with AFP on DU issues. Recently Moret provided a copy of her correspondence to a British radiation biologist, Dr. Chris Busby, about how nanometer size particles of DU - less than one-tenth of a micron and smaller - once inhaled or absorbed into the body, can cause long-term damage to one's health. <snip> Moret's correspondence to Dr. Busby... under the title "How Depleted Uranium Weapons Are Killing Our Troops... . More than 500,000 "Gulf War Era" vets currently receive disability compensation, many of them for a variety of symptoms generally referred to as Gulf War Syndrome. Experts blame DU for many of these symptoms. "The numbers are overwhelming, but the potential horrors only get worse," Robert C. Koehler of the Chicago-based Tribune Media Services wrote in an article about DU weapons entitled "Silent Genocide." "DU dust does more than wreak havoc on the immune systems of those who breathe it or touch it; the substance also alters one's genetic code," Koehler wrote. ... . The U.S. government has known for at least twenty years that DU weapons produce clouds of poison gas on impact. These clouds of aerosolized DU are laden with billions of toxic sub-micron sized particles. A 1984 Dept. of Energy conference on Nuclear Airborne Waste reported that tests of DU anti-tank missiles showed that at least 31 percent of the mass of a DU penetrator is converted to nano-particles on impact. In larger bombs the percentage of aerosolized DU increases to nearly 100 percent, Fulk told AFP. Depleted uranium is harmful in three ways, according to Fulk: "Chemical toxicity, radiological toxicity, and particle toxicity." Particles in the nano-meter (one billionth of a meter) range are a "new breed of cat," Moret wrote. Because the size of the nano-particles allows them to pass freely throughout the organism and into the nucleus of its cells, exposure to nano-particles causes different symptoms than exposure to larger particles of the same substance. Internalized DU particles, Fulk said, act as "a non-specific catalyst" in both "nuclear and non-nuclear" ways. This means that the uranium particle can affect human DNA and RNA because of both its chemical and radiological properties. This is why internalized DU particles cause "many, many diseases," Fulk said. Asked if this is how DU causes severe birth defects, Fulk said, "Yes." The military is aware of DU's harmful effects on the human genetic code. A 2001 study of DU's effect on DNA done by Dr. Alexandra C. Miller for the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, indicates that DU's chemical instability causes 1 million times more genetic damage than would be expected from its radiation effect alone. Most importantly, the article finishes with the nitty gritty specifics: DU's etiological pathway: "Exposure pathways for depleted uranium can be through the skin, by inhalation, and ingestion," Moret wrote. "Nano-particles have high mobility and can easily enter the body. Inhalation of nano- particles of depleted uranium is the most hazardous exposure, because the particles pass through the lung-blood barrier directly into the blood. When inhaled through the nose, nano-particles can cross the olfactory bulb directly into the brain through the blood brain barrier, where they migrate all through the brain," she wrote. "Many Gulf Era soldiers exposed to depleted uranium have been diagnosed with brain tumors, brain damage, and impaired thought processes. Uranium can interfere with the mitochondria, which provide energy for the nerve processes, and transmittal of the nerve signal across synapses in the brain. Damage to the mitochondria, which provide all energy to the cells and nerves, can cause chronic fatigue syndrome, Lou Gehrig's disease, Parkinson's Disease, and Hodgkin's disease." http://www.americanfreepress.net/ http://www.rense.com/general61/pinp.htm --- For much more detail on the DU issue, check out the following 11-9-05 San Francisco Bay View article, Depleted Uranium: Dirty Bombs, Dirty Missiles, Dirty Bullets - A Death Sentence Here And Abroad by Leuren Moret, at the following URL: http://www.sfbayview.com/081804/Depleteduranium081804.shtml --- For those of you who wish to delve further into the environmental state of affairs, as an example, you might want to check out the following in relation to Keystone Species and Trophic Cascade. Food Webs: http://www.mscs.dal.ca/~myers/bio2060/foodwebs.html Benefits Of Wolves - The Ecological Benefits Of Wolves As A Top Carnivore: http://www.defenders.org/wildlife/wolf/speakup/benefits.html Yellowstone Wolves:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 29 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:53:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:25:03 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Friedman >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:16:11 -0800 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:14:57 -0400 >>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:00:50 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox <snip> >>Obviously one could and should make the point that the >>observations of creatured manufactured craft, behaving in ways >>that the craft we can make cannot behave, proves that aliens can >>get here. >I agree 100%, but even though they may be "alien" to humans, >doesn't mean they must have come from the stars. You're >excluding the possibility of "alien" civilizations either here >on earth or from somewhere else in our solar system. I think >that's a serious mistake. With the right combination of isotopes such as Deuterium and Helium-3, charged particles are born with 10 million times as much energy per particle as they can get in a chemical rocket. They are not accelerated to these huge energies, they are born with them. In addition using the gravitational fields of various heavenly bodies extracts very little energy from them. After all 99.9999% of the speed of light is still less, but is awfully fast and the time slowing down is very appreciable. We already create such particles in accelerators and nature does in the case of certain cosmic rays. I don't have any good reason to even suggest that there are other advanced technological civilizations based within the solar system.. which is not to say there may not be alien bases the equivalent of coaling stations in the Atlantic 100 years ago. But the big steam vessels weren't built at those bases.It is also not to say there haven't been past advanced civilizations on Earth or Mars. I am talking in terms of places able to build interstellar vehicles... now or even
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 29 ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:47:11 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:48:58 -0500 Subject: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox The ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox Applying Occam's razor to the available evidence, I accept the likelihood that some UFOs are someone else's spacecraft. So that answers the question "Where are they?" However, it does not address the question "Where were they?" Specifically, why hasn't an extraterrestrial civilization long ago colonized the Earth, stripped it of all its natural resources, and/or turned the Earth into part of its galactic franchise operation? The Earth has been habitable for at least several hundred million years (about a billion years since the last "snowball Earth" global ice age). I am here defining habitability in terms of things like free oxygen in the atmosphere, tolerable surface temperatures, the presence of large bodies of liquid water, etc=85 Primitive life, of course, has existed on this planet for over three and a half billion years. Life appeared here as soon as suitable conditions existed and basically sat around doing nothing for three billion years before evolution was finally kick-started with the Cambrian explosion, which, by the way, I accept as a natural event not requiring extraterrestrial intervention to explain. Why in all that time did no interloper decide to terraform the Earth and make it part of its multistellar empire? Why, since the Cambrian, has no latecomer built cities and farms and mining facilities here? If we allow for interstellar migration and colonization, and the presence of visitors in modern times, what of the distant past, long before the dawn of human history? It seems clear that we still have some kind of Fermi Paradox to deal with, as one can argue that Fermi's original question implied not only the mystery of their absence in modern times but also in times past. Indeed, our galaxy is about twelve billion years old, and there are sun-like stars billions of years older than our sun. It is quite plausible that there were starfaring civilizations in the galaxy as early as five billion years ago. Some would argue, of course, that perhaps those civilizations did come and just didn't stay. Perhaps a few of their artifacts have been found by archaeologists or paleontologists but not recognized for what they are. If so, then why didn't they stay, and shouldn't we expect more evidence of their presence than a few out of place artifacts? Some would argue that they did colonize the Earth, and we are the remnant of their colony. To do so is to discount all of the evidence that Homo sapiens is indigenous to the Earth. We have the same DNA, the same basic anatomy, and so forth as the other primates, and the natural history of the primates can be traced back tens of millions of years. Clearly we are one of the Earth's creatures, even though we can't rule out genetic intervention by some extraterrestrial culture. Further, it is depressing to think that we were once a starfaring culture and have since lost all of our knowledge and technology and been forced to start again from scratch. Apart from all that, Homo sapiens is a relative newcomer to the Earth. Why didn't someone colonize our planet back during the time of the dinosaurs or before? Is there some long-standing galactic law against colonizing the Earth that is so effectively enforced that not a single civilization has violated it in all of the time that Earth has been ripe for colonization? I don't have the answers to these questions (and neither does anyone else), but it is clear that
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 29 A Top-Ten List For Aliens From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:53:44 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:53:44 -0500 Subject: A Top-Ten List For Aliens Source: Helena Independant Record - Helena, Montana, USA http://tinyurl.com/9bffh 12/28/2005 A Top-Ten List For Aliens By Martin Kidston I get tired of all those top 10 lists and New Year's resolution stories this time of year. There's the top 10 local stories, the top 10 Montana stories, the top 10 AP stories, health stories, business stories and Dave Barry's top 10, too. My question is, how can you plan ahead when you're always looking back? The truth is, these top 10 lists are an easy way out when there isn't any "real" news. So to be a sport, I've made my own top 10 list for lack of other work. Needless to say, it was a big year for local "otherworldly" circles, to include UFOs, Big Foot stories, and other oddities that don't get much publicity or get laughed at when they do. You certainly won't find them on any top 10 list either. Lynda Cowen, a 1963 graduate of Powell County High School who now lives in Texas, discussed her recent docudrama, "The Secret of Redgate," this year, even though she filmed the movie last year in Deer Lodge. She told me her film was inspired by her brother's own UFO encounters as a boy. The stories down in that small prison town are strange. I used to live there but I never heard any talk of UFOs. Back then, it was arsenic in the Clark Fork River and the local lumber mill that got all the attention =97 that and the prison siren that sounded curfew at 10 p.m. every night. "My brother consciously remembers having a lot of encounters with aliens as a child =97 playing with them as a child," Cowen told me over the phone in March. "No one ever talked about this stuff growing up." The film propelled Deer Lodge to the fore of Montana's most mysterious destinations. The film also won the "People's Choice Award" at the UFO Congress in Texas =97 selected by 700 people from 15 films as a matter of fact. This year's talk of UFOs was nothing new. Last year, Timothy Good =97 perhaps the world's leading UFO authority =97 came to Helena to interview Leo Dworshak. Dworshak's book, "UFOs Are with Us =97 Take my Word," shares his own alien encounter as a child. But what strikes me as strange is not Dworshak's alleged encounter, but rather how Good, who lives in England, found out about it. It seems that Good heard of Dworshak through a man named Lucius Farrila. And who's Farrila you ask? He runs a UFO news clipping service in Arkansas. At any rate, even Art Bell's "Coast To Coast AM" was interested in that story. They called me trying to track down Good. I don't know if they ever connected though. This year's oddities were contained to the sky; there was Sasquatch too. In July, former Helena resident Matt Flanders, who moved to the Dark Side that is New York City, came home to film his new Bigfoot documentary here. While researching his film, Flanders undertook a good bit of research by attending Bigfoot conferences in Bellingham, Wash., and the Salt Fork State Park in Cambridge, Ohio. "I've interviewed so many people that have had these Bigfoot sightings," Flanders told me outside the Grandstreet Theatre one summer afternoon. "I'd describe them as people with an open mind and an active imagination." Flanders said he met a lot of people around the country, including one man who communes telepathically with Bigfoot and another who studies the creature's genitals, his mating habits and his wish to live monogamously. There's other stuff, too, that won't make anybody's top 10 list, except mine. In November, I called Patrick Marsolek, one of the founding members of the Drum Brothers. He's made a name in Helena as a practicing hypnotherapist. I wasn't looking to be hypnotized, but rather to find out about this psychic stuff he does. After all, Marsolek is the director of Inner Workings Resources =97 a place where he teaches skills like remote viewing, intuition and trance exploration. A few months back, he and Ellen Baumler, a local historian and expert on hauntings, led a "telepathic" tour of the Broadwater Resort in Boulder too see what, if any, residual energies remained. "Everything we do leaves an imprint, or a field of information, or an energy that can be accessed," Marsolek told me in a November interview. "All the physical matter has an energy and a physical consciousness at its core. We're not separate from what we perceive." In November, historian Jon Axline also gave a lecture, "Like Two Dimes in the Sky: The Great Falls Flying Saucer Film and the Cold War," at St. Paul's Methodist Church. I usually talk to Axline about historic bridges and such, so when I read all about the lecture in the paper, this UFO bit caught my eye. He put it best when he said, "The more unusual (event) tells you a different side of the story. It shows people's fears during the time." Our times are indeed new times. My hope is that in, say 50 years, someone will read this and see that common people like me feared top 10 lists the most. Martin Kidston can be reached at helenair.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Dover Lights Cast Shadow On Legend From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:01:33 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:01:33 -0500 Subject: Dover Lights Cast Shadow On Legend Source: The Courier - Russellville, Arizona, USA http://www.couriernews.com/story.asp?ID=3D10349 Wednesday, December 28, 2005 Dover Lights Cast Shadow On Legend Caller reports vehicle plunged off bluff By Brooke Vermillion government.nul A few hours after dark Monday, a distressed caller notified Pope County emergency personnel of a possible vehicle accident near a bluff in the area known as the Dover Lights off of Old Highway 7. "The caller said there was a vehicle down there that had run off of the mountain into the valley," Sheriff Jay Winters said Tuesday. "They said they could see the (head)lights on the car, but when they would call down there, they could not get an answer." The sheriff said the call prompted the Pope County Emergency 911 dispatch center to call out units from the Arkansas State Police, Pope County EMS, and the Sheriff's Office, along with the Jaws of Life extrication crew, to aid in the potentially fatal situation. Although Winters said the bluff is not easily accessible for conducting a search, he noted the steep slope of the bluff made the situation especially dangerous for any victim who may have had an accident. "If somebody was down there, they would have been dead or would have needed serious help," Winters said. After an hour of searching in the Dover Lights area, emergency crews canceled their quest after finding no evidence a vehicle had plunged off the bluff. "Somebody had evidently thrown a light down there," Winters said, noting the EMS report did not specify what type of light was found. "I don't know what type of light it was; the officers just said they did not find a vehicle =97 nothing other than 'a light.'" Winters said the sheriff's office gets calls at times about mysterious white lights in the area now known as Maupin Flat Road, about 15 miles north of Dover. The Dover Lights area has been a part of local legend for decades. "There are old stories about that pull-off at the bluff," Winters recalled, saying he has never seen the unexplainable lights. "People have said they see lights over there, and nobody could ever figure it out." But the sheriff also said not all calls from the area have proven to be uneventful. He recalled an incident that occurred several years ago in which a stolen vehicle was pushed off of the bluff. Emergency crews worked all day to get the vehicle back up the steep terrain. Therefore, Winters said, the caller did the right thing. "The caller did what we've always asked people to do," he said. "Because, what if somebody had been down there and needed our help? We need to let the people who have the necessary equipment get down there and check it out. "We were fortunate. We're happy nobody was down there because if
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Greys Matter From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:15:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:15:21 -0500 Subject: Greys Matter Source: The Student Operated Press http://www.thesop.org/index.php?id=3D391 December 28, 2005 Greys Matter by Sean Stubblefield "Assuming the correctness of my perceptions, this book, then, becomes a chronicle not only of my discovery of a Visitor's presence in the world, but also one of how I have learned to fear them less." -Whitley Strieber; author of Communion In 1947, U.S. Army Lieutenant Walter Haut was ordered to announce, in an official Army news release, that a flying saucer had landed in Roswell, New Mexico. And so he did. However, almost immediately after, that claim was retracted - on second thought - and substituted with a feeble story about a misidentified weather balloon. Yeah, because up close these two things look so much alike and are easy to confuse with each other. And then poor Major Jesse Marcel, an intelligence officer sent to investigate the "alleged=94 alien craft - I mean, weather balloon - on which that supposed report is based was set up by his military superiors as the patsy for making that clumsy "mistake=94. Be aware and advised, a crashed weather balloon does not leave the amount or type of debris reportedly found at the crash sight. What's really going on here? When I was lad of 16 years, I happened to see a UFO It was unidentified, it was flying, and it was an object. By the very definition of the term, whatever I saw was a UFO Its appearance and behavior was even consistent with what one might expect from a U.FO., based on the pop-culture folk-lore. Whether or not genuine extra-terrestrials were involved in any way, I cannot say. Not because The Men In Black, or the men in white coats, instructed me not to. I can't say because I honestly and unfortunately don't know. What I do know is that this UFO did not exhibit the characteristics - aesthetically or propulsionally - of any contemporarily human made aircraft I am familiar with, then or now at age 33. All I know is that I saw something very unusual. Of this, I am certain. While it wasn't exactly a life changing event, the experience was quite eerily fascinating. But it was probably just a weather balloon, right? Could it really be there actually is some truth to the reports of alien visitors? Is the truth, as the X-Files pondered, out there? Our scientists have failed us in this regard, because, incredulously, they refuse to take matters of paranormal phenomena seriously and so don't bother to conduct proper investigations, if at all. Science requires that we judge according to the availability of concrete evidence, that a conclusion must validate a hypothesis rather than the opposite, and models should be adapted to fit situations, not vice versa. So it is ironic and illogical that so many scientists habitually or politically jump to conclusions regarding the paranormal, commonly making a priori assessments about such unconventional mysteries. It is further ironic that most mainstream scientists tend to forget and forego solving the unknown in favor of maintaining and protecting the comfortable and comforting status quo of the known. So the inquest falls to the fringe, who no one is going to believe precisely because they are on the fringe. No "legitimate=94 or credible scientist wants to deal with paranormality, and no scientist who openly does concern him/herself with such foolish things is considered legitimate or credible, because the mainstream rejects the paranormal as a legitimate and credible subject of study. The mainstream doesn't like to admit or acknowledge the unconventional because it reveals them to be in error, upsetting their delicate sensibilities of "the real=94. These kinds of things don't actually happen in reality. To these so-called scientists, reality is static, not dynamic. Scientists like to think in absolute terms, often assuming that the conclusions of science thus far are final and immutable, conveniently ignoring that the history of science is a series of amended and appended - and upended - conclusions, as we gradually learn new things. Insecurely and ignorantly inflexible, they betray science because they don't appreciate or allow for contradictions or mysteries. Science is subverted into the psuedo-science it accuses paranormal researchers to be guilty of. When scientists don't take the question of paranormal phenomena seriously, they don't take science seriously, committing an injustice against the venerability, virtue and value of science as a means and method of seeking and gathering truth, and of determining the nature of our reality. If something new doesn't fit within the parameters of their established and accepted conceptions, then it doesn't exist. It is contrary, so it cannot and must not be real. If new perceptions do not coincide with extant conceptions, then the perceptions must be wrong, since consensus conceptions are treated as inviolate. If one were to see a leprechaun doing a jig right in front of them in the clear light of day, one would be more apt and inclined to convince one's self that they didn't really see what they saw, before they accept the experience as authentic. But as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle said through the character of Sherlock Holmes, "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains -however improbable - must be the truth." In 2004, as I lie in bed on my way to a night's sleep, I sensed a disturbance in the Force, a presence nearby. I quickly looked up and saw, a mere meter before me, what appeared to be a Grey, formally known as Zeta Reticulian. I froze, wide-eyed. Not in fear or panic, but in awe and wonder. Could it be that was really an alien standing beside my bed? If so, why was it there? And it just stood there still, simply looking back at me. Am I really seeing this? Was that really happening? The room was dark, so I couldn't see it clearly. I urged myself to jump up, moving passed the "alien=94 to the light switch close behind it. But when I turned around, with the light on, the alien was gone. Was it ever actually really there? Was it only a trick of light and shadow, combined with my active imagination and interest in aliens? All I know for sure about it is that I perceived something. But I can't say with any confidence that I truly did see an alien, because such things are so divergent and disconnected from - so alien to - the realm of the usual, as I was personally familiar with. Hence, PARA-normal. Isn't it more probable that I didn't see what I thought I saw? Even if it WAS real? It seemed real, at the time, and yet unreal. But improbable isn't the same as impossible. My brother believes he had an almost identical experience, once, years ago. The whole idea isn't exactly inconceivable. But it is difficult to believe and accept the untenable, the intangible, the inexplicable; difficult to reconcile the uncommon irregular with the common regular world experience. One of the epistemological staples of science is knowledge acquired through observation. So why does mainstream science (indeed, the mainstream population) insist on refusing to believe its collective eyes when it sees the abundant and persistent - and fairly consistent- - reports of and on the UFO & alien abduction phenomena? Skeptical to the point of foolishness. Without a doubt, something is definitely going on, something that warrants a closer look. All these so many people are evidently and apparently seeing and experiencing something strange. Whether it derives from actual physical manifestations - alien or terrestrial, or from psionic or spiritual projections of archetypes in the collective unconscious - in our minds or into our world, or some combination=85 something is happening. In one form or another, aliens are here, among us and within us, now, on planet Earth=85 and have been for a long while. Psychological or corporeal or both, the alien phenomenon is real. The fact that these experiences qualify as a phenomenon, or phenomena, is a hint that there is something to all this. The details in reports of alien abductions - before they became publicized, popularized and pop-cultured - from disparate individuals in varied cultures and countries are much too similar to be dismissed as mere coincidence. Reports of UFO sightings are too plentiful and widespread - over space and time - for them all to be misconstrued and casually dismissed as mass delusions or hallucinations or misperceptions or hoaxes. Our society and consciousness is suffused and infused with aliens - a very particular image and breed of alien: The Greys. Why? Where did this come from? All legend and lore is based on some point of fact, something that really existed. Surely, there is sufficient evidence and reason, however speculative and inconclusive, of a genuine mystery, and that we should pursue an extensive investigation, sparing no resources. Even if - especially if - we don't know and can't say exactly what is happening. These are questions, and quests, that should be taken seriously if we may hope to ever verify and understand the truth of alien visitation on Earth. Whatever that truth may be, either proving or disproving=85 something. It both amuses and frustrates me that most people easily and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 MoD Cites Asbestos Fear In Rejecting Information From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:18:26 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:18:26 -0500 Subject: MoD Cites Asbestos Fear In Rejecting Information Source: The Guardian - London, UK http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foi/story/0,9061,1674302,00.html December 28, 2005 MoD Cites Asbestos Fear In Rejecting Information Pleas - Papers on Saudi arms and interrogation kept back - Decontaminated data to be copied before release Ian Cobain The Guardian Thousands of the government's most sensitive secret documents are being held back from publication under the Freedom of Information Act on the grounds that they may be contaminated by asbestos. Ministry of Defence officials say the documents were stored in an area of the old War Office building in Whitehall where asbestos was discovered a number of years ago. Dozens of requests for information made under the FoI have already been turned down by the ministry, and a number of documents dating back to 1975, which were due for automatic release under the 30-year rule, are also being held back. Officials say that the contents of each file will eventually be considered for release once it has been decontaminated and copied. That process is unlikely to be completed before summer of 2007 at the earliest. Some 63,000 files, containing around 10m pages, are affected. The MoD has turned down 27 requests for information, concerning 288 files, which were made under the act. Of the approximately two dozen files which the Guardian has identified none appear to concern routine matters. All bear titles which suggest that they would have remained unseen for many years had the Freedom of Information Act not become law. One is entitled Sale of Arms to Saudi Arabia. Another is Production of Chemical Weapons, while a third is Medical Aspects of Interrogation. Several files about SAS operations in Borneo are being withheld, as are others about the financing of GCHQ, the government's eavesdropping organisation. There are also a number of files with intriguing titles such as Operation Tiara, Operation Grape, and Project R1, as well as some which contain details of supposed UFO sightings. As well as Ministry of Defence files, documents archived by the former Air Ministry, the Admiralty and the War Office are being withheld for the same reason. One batch of papers concerns a detention centre in Kensington, west London, known as the London Cage, where German prisoners of war were tortured during and after the second world war. The Freedom of Information Campaign expressed misgivings about the withheld papers, and about the MoD's explanation. "It does certainly arouse suspicion," a spokeswoman said. However, the MoD denied that the documents were being withheld in order to delay the publication of their contents. "We have had to take these steps under health and safety law," a spokesman said. "Once the area was discovered to be contaminated the documents that were held there were considered to be contaminated. We have since found traces of asbestos on some of the documents." Each document was being carefully copied, he said, and the originals would be retained if they were considered to have value. Among the papers which were due to be released under the 30-year rule are thought to be a number concerning the Miami Showband Massacre. Survivors of the killings are angered by the decision to delay publication, as they say they have yet to discover who was behind the attack in July 1975. The Ulster Volunteer Force gang which murdered three band members at the side of a road was said to have been led by a man with an English accent and wearing British army uniform. Meanwhile, the watchdog who decides whether public bodies should be compelled to publish files has been unable to complete half his workload since the act became law 12 months ago. There are exemptions to the act, and Richard Thomas, the information commissioner, can judge whether it is in the public interest to withhold information, rather than release it. More than 2,100 appeals have been referred to Mr Thomas and around 1,300 of those are outstanding. Freedom of information campaigners say that the delay is encouraging government departments to withhold documents from the public. Withheld documents - Sale of arms to Saudi Arabia - Special maritime surveillance operations - An improved kiloton bomb - Production of chemical weapons - Chemical warfare policy - Operations Grape and Tiara - Medical aspects of interrogation - Special operations and how they affect deception - Atomic energy: information received from US under military agreement - Nuclear warheads in the far east - Project R1
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:07:50 -0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:32:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? - <snip> >>>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:57:55 -0200 >>>>Subject: Comments On US History's 'Brazil's Roswell'? >>>>Has anybody here seen and could comment on the US History >>>>channel's show 'Brazil's Roswell', about the secret >>>>investigation of UFOs in the Amazon by our military.The show >>>>started airing last Sunday. <snip> Thanks to Santiago, Nick and Terry for the comments on the the History Channel's 'Brazil's Roswell' show. Just yesterday afternoon I got the DVD by the mail from Tower Productions, a subsidiary of the History Channel in Chicago. Needless to say, I opened the box immeditely and watched to the show. I was amazed with the quality of the production! Despite a few mistakes, that won't compromise the whole thing at all, the documentary is just superb. Great scenes, very realistic dramatization of the sightings and attacks and very good info in the packet. You should all watch to the show as soon as possible. THC is airing it in several countries (unfortunatelly, not in Brazil). The program shows very accurately what happened in the Amazon in the 70s and 80s, incluing over a thousand people being attacked by UFOs. I have been a few times in the affected areas and spoken to the people involved, including some of the military and some of the doctors that helped the victims. The situation was very intense and serious. In such a way that the Brazilian Air Force established the Operation Saucer, of which we have managed to get over 200 pages of secret documents. Well, seeing the show was a late Christmas gift to me. And I really think that you should watch to it as well. I have conducted new investigations in the areas and I will take very good, new material to present at 2006 Laughlin International UFO Congress and Film Festival. Unfortunatelly, I will have to show that our visitors are not always friendly and nice space
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Shell From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:14:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:39:45 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Shell >From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:47:11 -0800 >Subject: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >Is there some long-standing galactic law against colonizing the >Earth that is so effectively enforced that not a single >civilization has violated it in all of the time that Earth has >been ripe for colonization? I don't have the answers to these >questions (and neither does anyone else), but it is clear that >the ETH is not a complete answer to the Fermi Paradox. I would argue that any spacefaring race is highly unlikely to be planet based. Planets are unstable and dangerous places to base your civilization. Giant "platforms" with stable gravity, atmosphere, temperature, etc., are where advanced civilizations go when they leave their planetary wombs. They have no need to colonize planets, nor to interfere with ones that are already host to life. Raw materials are all they need, and those are more easily obtained from asteroids and the like. As to exploring the Earth, perhaps "when you've seen one solar system, you've seen them all". There may be a limited number of models expressed over and over throughout the universe. Once you really do understand how it all works, what is the point of exploration? Take off your blinders and look beyond the human exploration and
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: A Top-Ten List For Aliens - Shell From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:19:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:41:30 -0500 Subject: Re: A Top-Ten List For Aliens - Shell On Dec 29, 2005, at 7:53 AM, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: <snip> >It seems that Good heard of Dworshak through a man named Lucius >Farrila. And who's Farrila you ask? He runs a UFO news clipping >service in Arkansas. <snip>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Book Offers UFO Insight Missing From Blue Book From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:47:00 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:47:00 -0500 Subject: Book Offers UFO Insight Missing From Blue Book Source: Florida Today - Melbourne, Florida, USA http://tinyurl.com/9qvxy December 28, 2005 The Billy Blog Billy Cox is taking on cyberspace, sharing his views on Brevard County, the world and beyond on the "Billy Blog." New Book Offers UFO Insight Missing From Blue Book Maybe it was inevitable - given as how conflict had been hammered into his consciousness since the U.S. occupation of Vera Cruz in 1914 - that Douglas MacArthur would frame his farewell address to West Point in apocalyptic terms. The old Army general went head-to-head with some of the 20th- century's biggest militarists (Kaiser Wilhelm, Tojo, Chairman Mao); surely, his 1962 warning to cadets about an "ultimate conflict between a united human race and the sinister forces of some other planetary galaxy" was a glib metaphor. Except for a niggling little controversy that won't go away. And on the 36th anniversary of the termination of Project Blue Book - the official U.S. Air Force study that concluded unidentified flying objects weren't a threat to national security - examining government failures should be an annual media ritual each December. For decades, MacArthur's name has been linked to the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit (IPU), a top-secret military outfit allegedly founded in the 1940s to investigate UFOs. Long regarded as apocryphal by critics, the IPU's existence - if not its mission - was confirmed by the Army on at least three different occasions in response to Freedom of Information Act requests. In its most recent accounting, the Army Intelligence and Security Command stated in 1990 that "the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit, Scientific and Technical Branch, Counterintelligence Directorate, Department of the Army . . . records pertaining to the unit were surrendered to the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations in conjunction with Operation Bluebook." Naturally, there's no mention of the IPU in the Blue Book archives. In Indian Harbour Beach, retired USAF colonel Bill Coleman, once the top Blue Book spokesman and former chief PIO for the Air Force, has a succinct reaction to the IPU: "Never heard of it." "Majic Eyes Only," a new book by UFO investigator Ryan Wood, offers fragmentary glimpses into the IPU from government documents. Most intriguing - although it's been around for some time - is a letter from Gen. George Marshall to President Roosevelt. Shortly after American anti-aircraft batteries opened up on a UFO gliding over Los Angeles in 1942, Marshall claimed the Army Air Corps recovered debris that was "in all probability of interplanetary origin." "The challenge is, you become a buff on military intelligence history," says the author from his home in Broomfield, Colo., "but you never find what you're looking for. Anything truly damning and powerful has been cleaned up."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:04:24 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:20:36 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - >From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:47:11 -0800 >Subject: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >The ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >Applying Occam's razor to the available evidence, I accept the likelihood that some UFOs are someone else's spacecraft. So that answers the question "Where are they?" However, it does not address the question "Where were they?" Specifically, why hasn't an extraterrestrial civilization long ago colonized the Earth, stripped it of all its natural resources, and/or turned the Earth into part of its galactic franchise operation? <snip> Because the planet is already spoken for? Maybe it's someone's property. Charles Fort proposed that hypothesis a long time ago. In his space trilogy, C. S. Lewis had his own theological take
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:15:54 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:27:09 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - >From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:47:11 -0800 >Subject: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox <snip> >Is there some long-standing galactic law against colonizing the >Earth that is so effectively enforced that not a single >civilization has violated it in all of the time that Earth has >been ripe for colonization? I don't have the answers to these >questions (and neither does anyone else), but it is clear that >the ETH is not a complete answer to the Fermi Paradox. Hello David, List, Unless I am suffering from a radical misperception, I think people are overly impressed by the so-called Fermi paradox. Even setting aside the issue as to whether or not UFOs represent ET visitation, here are just a few suggestions which overcome the perceived paradox; 1. Humans are unique in the universe - there is no other intelligent life. (Fermi's own "solution" to his "paradox"). 2. Humanity is the pinnacle of the civilised universe, and will be the pioneers of interstellar travel. 3. Other intelligent life has not reached a point in their civilisation where interstellar travel is either sufficiently inexpensive or low-risk, or if they have, their race has not survived long enough to reach us. 4. If other intelligent life has reached a stage where interstellar travel is inexpensive and low risk, they have greater priorities than visiting/colonising/exploiting earth eg defending themselves against an equally or more advanced coloniser/ exploiter, or taking out civilisations which currently present a greater risk to them than humanity currently does. 5. Other intelligent life has a policy of non-interference in the affairs of planets that have not developed interstellar travel themselves. 6. Humanity is a crop which will not be ripe for several millenia. ET visits occasionally to do a bit of weeding, but doesn't want to arouse too much interest and frighten the herd before it is ready for slaughter. 7. Other intelligence is so far in advance of us it has absolutely no interest in us, in the same way that we are not interested in developing diplomatic relations with the slugs that make a mess when you step on them by accident. 8. The value systems of other intelligences are so different from ours that it would not occur to them to visit/colonise/exploit earth. 9. Other intelligence is afraid of us because we carry deadly bacteria against which they have no defence. 10. For some unknown (to us) reason, contact with other intelligence would be mutually fatal. I could go on, but the bottom line is that there is no paradox - all that can be done until we can be sure either way is speculate on solutions to a speculative paradox. Why waste bandwidth on it?
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Not A Bird Or Plane? It Must Be A UFO From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:25:28 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:25:28 -0500 Subject: Not A Bird Or Plane? It Must Be A UFO Source: The Manila Times - The Philippines http://tinyurl.com/9lqoj Friday, December 30, 2005 Not A Bird Or Plane? It Must Be A UFO By Al Jacinto Correspondent ZAMBOANGA CITY: An unidentified flying object was sighted hovering over a quiet village in Zamboanga City. The object, which appeared metallic, was spotted in the remote village of Lumbangan, about 10 kilometers east of Zamboanga. A witness claimed to have a photograph of the UFO hovering above a hill in the village. "I was taking pictures of the people digging for scrap and did not notice the flying object until I browsed the photographs from my laptop computer four days later." "I was aghast at the picture and could not believe it. Of the three frames of photographs taken in the same site, the flying object appeared only on the second frame. It was not on the first frame and gone on the third," he said. He said the object resembled a dark metallic disc with what appeared to be a dome on its top and it emitted neither sounds nor smoke. It was unknown if there were other witnesses, but he said some 70 people were in the garbage dump at the time the UFO hovered behind them. "It was past 10 in the morning and I am sure I heard no sound of aircraft in the village. The UFO was behind just up there," he said. The witness reported the sighting to an international scientific research organization in the United States, the UFO Evidence, and sent a copy of the photograph. The Wikipedia website defines a UFO as "any airborne object or optical phenomenon, detected visually or by radar, whose nature is not readily known. Interest in these objects stems from continued speculation that some of them may be the products of extraterrestrial intelligence." There have been numerous UFO sightings in the Philippines in the past. Filipinos reported seeing UFOs in 1979 in Cebu, Bohol and Negros. On April 19, 2000, a UFO was spotted near a beer brewery office in Manila. On June 28, 2002, a UFO was spotted hovering over a remote village in Polomolok town in South Cotabato.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Fatima Apparitions Communication Process From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:19:03 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:31:54 -0500 Subject: Fatima Apparitions Communication Process Some remarks about the Fatima Entity speech process An amazing coincidence (?) The modulated frequencies ranged from 200 to 400 Hz obtained in the so-called Microwave Auditive Phenomenon seems to be a good clue to search for a comparative hypothesis to the communication signal that could have been produced during the classic Fatima Apparitions 1917 episodes, in Portugal, as described by the late seer Soror Lucia and the Luminous Entity described as Virgin Mary by the official Catholic interpretation of the events. What kind of frequencies, that could be produce by other artificial or living objects, can be ranged between those intervals 200 400 Hz? A large amount of data has been mentioned in the scientific literature and experimental field recordings. For example, Hayward G. Spangler, from the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center, Tucson, US, a most experienced entomologist and professor at the University of Arizona, have been studied several types of honeybees (Apis mellifera L. or mellifica in occidental European countries) in Arizona, US and Costa Rica. He found an elevated mean of wingbeat frequencies of honeybees (WBF) of 285 Hz. Among several correlations between air temperature thoracic bees and WBF he reported data showing the mean WBF was 196.8 Hz during free flying honey bees flying both to and from the hive. Two bees colonies produced 203 Hz (Apis mellifera species). Other studies made by Deutch researcher Hansson, A. (1945), reported that stinging bees have a mean WBF of 285 Hz (range 273-305 Hz). This is a kind of sound heard by the Fatima 1917 seers and also by some witnesses around the oak tree, the spot where the Luminous Entity was seen. They said: it looks like a humming or buzzing of bees only and always the Lady seems to speak , but without the Lady having moved her lips according Lucia own internal sensations suggesting the reception of some kind of information translated through the seer words . That humming or buzzing bees sound was heard outside the brains of several witnesses around the oak tree encounter spot. We can think that it would be an impressive and audible sound spreading for a few meters square. So, it is not absurd conclude that the communication signal from the Luminous Lady to Lucia during the Fatima Apparitions 1917 episodes seems to be coherent with a range around 200 Hz, which is compatible with the experimental data obtained by the Microwave Auditive Phenomenon as we can find in the literature produced by Canadian, French and Americans researchers since decades. Or, as it has been established since decades that those laboratorial experiments confirmed the possibility of reception of signals inside of the human brain. The unknown fourth Fatima seer and Lucia message little words non sensorial reception make plausible a kind of personalized and non-sensorial communication during the Fatima apparitional process, as we put in evidence in our book Heavenly Lights. The Apparitions of Fatima and the UFO Phenomenon (EcceNova Editions, 2005). (The author thanks Dr. Maciel Correia, from the University of Porto for the research contribution).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 12:40:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:36:02 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Friedman >From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:47:11 -0800 >Subject: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >The ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >Applying Occam's razor to the available evidence, I accept the >likelihood that some UFOs are someone else's spacecraft. So that >answers the question "Where are they?" However, it does not >address the question "Where were they?" Specifically, why hasn't >an extraterrestrial civilization long ago colonized the Earth, >stripped it of all its natural resources, and/or turned the >Earth into part of its galactic franchise operation? <snip> We are frankly abysmally ignorant about past civilizations on this planet. Schliemann's disovery of Troy was made less than 150 years ago and it was only 75' down and existed only a few thousand years ago. There is only a tiny fraction of this planet that has been examined 75' down and there are as is pointed out tens of million millions of years available for there to have been other civlizations here about which we know nothing. If there has been colonization going on in our local galactic neighborhood for billions of years, another planet (ours) may not be needed except perhaps as a source of raw materials. Thinking back to the Betty Hill star map, we are on the ege of the neigborhood. I would suggest that the history of the neighborhood may not be all about us.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Deardorff From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:06:54 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:37:42 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Deardorff >From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:13:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:16:11 -0800 >>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>I agree 100%, but even though they may be "alien" to humans, >>doesn't mean they must have come from the stars. You're >>excluding the possibility of "alien" civilizations either here >>on earth or from somewhere else in our solar system. I think >>that's a serious mistake. >You are absolutely right, Ed. >And it is equally as much a mistake to exclude the possibility >of "alien" civilizations from "somewhen" else here on earth or >in our solar system. >Ultimately, time travel may prove far easier than long distance >space travel. We have to learn to think outside our three- >dimensional box. Spacetime is multi-dimensional. One key point >that comes across in so many abduction stories is that the >"aliens" don't seem able to understand our concept of time. It >seems meaningless to them. As it rightly would to a being not >fettered by our blinders of three dimensional thinking. Bob, I think most of these aliens do understand our concept of time, as well as having their own more complete view of it. Consider that when presenting some fairly credible witnesses somewhere with a UFO sighting, they know better than to hang around so long in one place that the news media could congregate and air it all on live TV, or so long that the military could surround them. So they seemingly know the difference between seconds, minutes and hours. Also, when pacing an airplane or missile or car, they can precisely match their distance/time (= speed) with that of the vehicle they're confronting. During a 'flap', a UFO may show up several nights in a row, suggesting that they don't then just pop up randomly in time. UFOs tend to show up disproportionately often near the time and location of natural or man-made events such as passage of a meteorite or reentry rocket. During most abductions, the time that actually elapses during the on-board inspections and such (which may be "missing" time) is comparable to the length of time the abductee later recalls, perhaps under hypnosis, having been on board.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:46:55 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:39:31 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - >From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:47:11 -0800 >Subject: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >The ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox ><snip> >Some would argue, of course, that perhaps those civilizations >did come and just didn't stay. Perhaps a few of their artifacts >have been found by archaeologists or paleontologists but not >recognized for what they are. If so, then why didn't they stay, >and shouldn't we expect more evidence of their presence than a >few out of place artifacts? David, My in-laws' birthplace of Iran when he came to the US as a teenager, he would study particle physics at Berkeley, that he now teaches mathematics at University of Minnesota, and U. Wisconsin, when just the other day over a cup of tea mentions one of those "did you know that", he says the first white people on earth originally came from Iran. It wasn't even stated like question but as a matter of fact, so with some my quick speculation, when these white people migrated to Europe, to think they would even migrate as far north as Bodo Norway way up above the arctic circle where my grandparents had come from ?, well needless we say that I thought I surely was proud that I had this all figured out some time ago, as I have traced my family tree to southern Denmark year 1500, that's a tree!. Well, the rest of the story somehow goes this way, that when some of these Aryans stayed behind, they would become darker in complexion by means of an generation affect by influence from Arabs, Indians, and the Chinese. Finally there is Edgar Cayce when in 1933 he mentions three islands named Poseidia, Og, and Aryan. From Cayce's perspective, much of modern-day technology is simply the rediscovering of knowledge and information possessed by the Atlantean culture. http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/ancientaircraft_nf.html http://www.catchpenny.org/chamber.html According to Cayce, there is a "Hall of Records" http://www.edgarcayce.org/about_ec/cayce_on/ancient/ Essentially, by focusing upon materiality and ignoring their true spiritual nature, the people brought upon themselves a series of three cataclysms. The first, about 50,000 B.C., destroyed their major power source. The second, about 28,500 B.C., caused the continent to break into three smaller islands: Poseidia, Og, and Aryan. The third and final destruction - which is the one mentioned by Plato - occurred about 10,500 B.C. and caused the three islands to sink, forcing those who survived to migrate to other parts of the world. http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/originofaryan.html The myth of Aryan's migration to Iran implies that a people have come to Iran from a remote land, giving their name to an already inhabited land which had no name, and that no trace of their
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Rogerson From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:56:18 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:43:13 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Rogerson >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:25:55 -0600 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:33 +0000 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:10:08 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' <snip> >>>If you are arguing that the various entities _seen_ by asp >>experients are not subjective, what do you think they are[?]. >I have no idea, and neither do you. The difference is that I >admit it. >Jerry Clark You really have to say you have no idea what could lie behind any objective bedroom visitants because any such ideas would involve the sort of paranormal hypotheses that you have attacked in previous posts. E.g. shape-shifting boggarts; the witnesses producing the figure themselves by means of psychokinesis; the phenomenon reads their fears and projects images into the room; the nasty old witch down the road sends her astral body to torment the poor witness (the main cross cultural explanation for the Hag experience). It's not a very attractive list is it? Not that there is actually any good evidence out there for objective bedroom visitants in the first place.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: Aliens & Environmental Concerns & Warnings - From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:03:48 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:46:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Aliens & Environmental Concerns & Warnings - >From: Bob Soetebier <xxxx.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:36:32 -0600 >Subject: Aliens & Environmental Concerns & Warnings <snip> >DU's Toxic Nano-Particles Pinpointed >By Christopher Bollyn >American Free Press >1-10-5 ><snip> >Leuren Moret, a Berkeley-based geo-scientist with expertise in >atmospheric dust, corresponds with AFP on DU issues. Recently >Moret provided a copy of her correspondence to a British >radiation biologist, Dr. Chris Busby, about how nanometer size >particles of DU - less than one-tenth of a micron and smaller - > once inhaled or absorbed into the body, can cause long-term >damage to one's health. While we're on the topic, Leuren Moret is one of the unfortunate targets of vigilante stalking and electronic harassment - _heavy_ doses of it. The reason I raise this issue on this forum is that my claims of heavy VS/EH are (understandably) doubted by a number of members of this List. I wanted to raise Leuren's experience to at least support, if not prove, the idea that government can be vicious and ruthless. In turn, I suggest that one prevailing idea, that government doesn't really know much about UFOs and isn't nasty enough to severely harass (killing being the ultimate 'harassment') to keep secrets, is shortsighted. While many government employees are indeed entirely honest, there are plenty who are not, too. Even serial killers can be charming and urbane - government thugs don't wear signs.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Take Us To Your Professor From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:51:20 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:51:20 -0500 Subject: Take Us To Your Professor Source: Salon.Com - San Francisco, California, USA http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1998/09/22feature.html Sept. 22, 1998 Take Us To Your Professor By Christina Valhouli Since the time of Galileo, astronomers have pointed their telescopes at the heavens and asked, "Are we alone in the universe?" Now, that same question is being posed by historians, political scientists, psychologists and sociologists who don't use telescopes but the more elusive instruments of the soft social sciences: research, oral history, theory and, finally, conjecture. Recently, popular culture has been suffused by man-made aliens. =46rom television shows like "The X Files" and "3rd Rock From the Sun" to movies like "Independence Day" and "Men in Black," from the ad campaign for the Volkswagen Beetle claiming the car has been "reverse engineered" from UFOs to commercials in which ETs promote Hostess Ding Dongs, Quisp "the qwazy energy cereal" and Chilis restaurants, we can't seem to get enough of these alternately adorable, wise and terrifying but always slimy creatures. They've even starred alongside Kenny, Cartman, Stan and Kyle in the premiere episode of "South Park," called "When Cartman Gets an Anal Probe." Academia has usually been a haven from crazes involving paranormal phenomena, but now there are signs that alien nation has finally caught fire within the once cool walls of the ivory tower. In July, Stanford University professor emeritus Peter Sturrock and a panel of scientists from Princeton, Cornell and the University of Virginia reviewed a series of UFO reports. Their conclusion? Although the incidents had nothing to do with extraterrestrial intelligence, the panel called for more thorough investigations and criticized scientists' reluctance to study UFOs. In April, Cornell University Press published "Aliens in America" by political scientist Jodi Dean, who teaches at Hobart and William Smith colleges. And in the fall of 1999, the University of Kansas Press will publish an anthology of UFO essays, written by professors from Johns Hopkins, Temple and Eastern Michigan universities. Peculiar though it may be, the marriage of aliens with academia should come as no surprise. A university experiment first gave rise to the contemporary notion of aliens back in 1947. UFO mania kicked off in the United States that year on June 24, when amateur pilot Kenneth Arnold said he saw nine mysterious objects flying at supersonic speed across the Cascade Mountains near Mount Rainier. The press dubbed them "flying saucers" and the phrase stuck. Later that summer, a ranch foreman, W.W. Brazel, found strange, shiny material scattered near Roswell, N.M. Military officials called the debris a fallen weather balloon but some believed it was a flying saucer containing aliens. The story gained so much momentum that in 1966, Rep. Gerald Ford headed a congressional panel that looked into UFOs that included testimony by scientist Carl Sagan. The Roswell sighting resulted from a classified experiment developed by scientists at Columbia University, New York University and Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. The team worked on "Project Mogul," a program designed to search for evidence of nuclear blasts, according to an Air Force report. The fallen debris came from the broken balloons and radar reflectors. Since then, academia and UFOs have remained blessedly separate. Until now. Despite ufology's stigma as an area of study for Weekly World News suckers and backwater eccentrics, a growing number of academics are risking their careers to come out of the extraterrestrial closet and openly study UFOs. The best known and most controversial is Harvard psychiatrist John Mack, who uses hypnosis to determine if people have been abducted. Once the cr=E8me de la cr=E8me at Harvard, Mack built its psychiatry program from scratch and won a Pulitzer Prize for his 1977 biography of psychoanalyst T.E. Lawrence. Now he could be considered cr=E8me br=FBlee. Mack's colleagues view him as an embarrassment and make no bones about it. "I disagree with his conclusions and think he's totally deluded," says Dr. Paul Horowitz, an astronomer at Harvard who is currently working on the SETI (the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) project. Mack burst onto the scene in 1994 when he published "Abduction: Human Encounters With Aliens." Although he wasn't the first to write about abduction (that honor belongs to Whitley Streiber, author of "Communion"), he was the first academic to venture into the field armed with heavy credentials. The book grew out of his relationship with Budd Hopkins, a New York artist and sculptor who runs a free support group for abductees. Hopkins, who had written three bestselling books based on testimony from his support group, began sending many of his self-proclaimed abductees to Mack for intensive interviews and investigation. But these studies and the publications that chronicled them ultimately proved fatal to Mack's academic career. Eventually, he quit teaching at Harvard and now runs PEER, the Program for Extraordinary Experience Research, a nonprofit, privately funded organization that researches alien abduction. The organization publishes a newsletter and offers a referral service to licensed therapists. If Mack is the founding father of ufology, Dave Jacobs of Temple University may be its revolutionary son. He believes that aliens are trying to colonize America by breeding with humans. He did his doctoral dissertation on the UFO controversy at the University of Wisconsin, which was published by the University of Indiana press. Holding a conversation with Jacobs can be a frustrating experience, because he is armed with a flotilla of abduction stories he is quick to share. In an utterly sincere voice, he tells me that aliens are conducting a program of physiological exploitation, where they are seizing human sperm and eggs to create hybrid alien babies. Their goal is to colonize America, and Jacobs predicts the integration will be a peaceful one. And then his voice falls. "I don't like this. I hate this and I'm frightened by it," he says, referring to the turn his career has taken. "If I had done other research I could have had a life. It's hurt my life and my career. Even my kids are ridiculed in school." While Mack and Jacobs have willingly lent their names to UFO research and have become the stars in this scorned little galaxy, they are not alone. But their fellow ufologists can be as elusive as the aliens they are trying to find. As with many marginalized subcultures, ufologists are sometimes clannish, secretive and reluctant to speak with outsiders. Some hedge at merely acknowledging that a "scene" exists; one insider whispered that it was like being part of an "invisible college." In fact, ufologists tend toward paranoia. Before granting me an interview, most grilled me on my attitudes toward extraterrestrial life and its scholars. In the end, many people declined to comment on the topic despite their having attended UFO conferences and published papers on the subject. David Pritchard, a physicist at MIT, offers a case in point, although he was kind enough to grant me an interview of sorts. He's conducted research with aliens, but he doesn't like to talk about it. "It's not like I go babbling to my colleagues about my interest," he says. Reluctant doesn't even begin to describe him, and cantankerous would be generous. In 1992, Pritchard and Mack held a conference where they examined people claiming to have alien implants. They found no evidence. When asked for details on the conference, he yelled, "Get the book!" And while Pritchard admits a subculture exists, he's mum about the members. He became extremely agitated, and shouted, "I'm not going to talk to you about the culture and I'm not going to give you any names!" Gauging from his reaction, you'd think this was the 1950s and I was asking him to rat on some communists. Gradually, though, I began to get a glimpse of the field as a whole. Ufology is interrelated to the point of being incestuous. It's like following a choose-your-own adventure novel. Start with one person and it will eventually lead back to Mack. Along the way, ufologists bash each other and credit themselves with starting a movement or particular idea. After weeks of calling ufologists all over the country, I came away with another peculiar observation: These people seem to hate one another. Given that their common interests have put their jobs and reputations at risk, you'd think they might stick up for one another. Perhaps this is best explained as guilt by association. Indeed, most of the professors I interviewed seemed to have a love/hate relationship with UFOs. They say they regret their decision and the ridicule that comes with the stigma of studying UFOs, but they continue to follow the path to Golgotha. "It's fair to say my job marketability has decreased," says Ron Westrum, who teaches sociology at Eastern Michigan. "I can pretty much count on not moving up in my department." If ufology is so scary and such a career stopper, why do it? For one thing, it's a way for professors to claw their way out of their second-tier colleges and obscurity. If books like "The Celestine Prophecy" and "The Horse Whisperer" can make the New York Times Bestseller list, then aliens are a shoo-in. Schlock sells, and professors know this. One example is the ultra-excitable Jodi Dean of Hobart and William Smith colleges. Her book, "Aliens in America," explores how and why aliens have captured the popular imagination. As a woman in an almost exclusively male field, she is an anomaly. But more remarkable still, she wrote the book before tenure and was recently awarded the Faculty Award for Excellence in Scholarship. Dean says she was drawn to aliens because her first book, on feminism, had an audience of "about five people." Of course, a cultural anaylsis of aliens in popular culture and actually saying aliens exist are two different things. While her book was recently panned in the New York Times Book Review for endorsing the culture of paranoia, Dean argues persuasively that the current alien craze was ignited by the 1986 Challenger Shuttle explosion. Until then, she maintains, space represented freedom, adventure and prosperity. But when an ordinary woman like Christa McAuliffe was killed by her venture into outer space, suddenly the heavens again became a threat. The following year the first abduction book hit the shelves -- Streiber's "Communion" -- and abduction theory was born. While aliens translate into fun and profit for some professors, they infuriate others. Astronomer David Helfand of Columbia University says that he becomes exasperated and depressed when people claim to have seen aliens. "It's a sign of the rejection of knowledge as a valuable thing," he says. "People are retreating into magic, myth and superstition." Helfand says that while there could be life on other planets, "it doesn't imply they regularly visit Earth nor have sex with humans. It's total and utter nonsense." While traditional scholars can bemoan the deterioration of academic standards, scholarly ufology may be only the beginning of a cottage industry that takes aliens and their visits to earth as absolute facts. Recently, a teacher named Leah Haley wrote "Ceto's New Friends," a book aimed at children ages 4 to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Maybe The NSA Is Listening In From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:57:39 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:57:39 -0500 Subject: Maybe The NSA Is Listening In Source: LA Daily News - LosAngeles, California, USA http://www.dailynews.com/opinions/ci_3350983 12/29/2005 Maybe The NSA Is Listening In By Stephanie Becker Guest Columnist I've always felt a little ripped off by historical timing. I am too young to be a boomer, too old to be a slacker, too young to protest Vietnam or burn my bra in any meaningful way. (Training bras simply don't send the right message.) But finally there's a goal for those of us too youthful to have earned a place on the notorious Nixon "Enemies List" - that place of honor for opponents of the only president ever to have resigned. Paul Newman once said making that list was his greatest accomplishment. Now those of us in the "missed out" generation have something to strive for, a distinction to aspire to, a link to the infamy we so richly deserve - the privilege of being secretly and perhaps illegally spied on by the National Security Agency. The disclosure that the intelligence-gathering NSA is eavesdropping on some of us citizens without judicial oversight has given me hope that when the roll is called on those whose chatter has been tapped, I might be on it. It makes me all tingly with anticipation. Although, I'm pretty sure my habitual whining about my cable bill, dismal cell-phone service, my mother, my ex-husband and telemarketers who so flagrantly violate the law of "do not call" qualifies me only as an average American, not a potential evil- doer. On the flip side, I have seen all the Michael Moore movies and once dated the lone liberal on Fox News Channel. In fact, I wonder how clandestine the NSA (an acronym once referred to as No Such Agency) really is since it has a museum and gift shop, a Web site and a spokesman. That pretty much puts it in the same league as Disneyland. I'm guessing the job of Disney's P.R. flak is a lot harder than the P.R. rep for the NSA. Honestly, how many different ways can you deny you work for people who can't tell you that they aren't doing anything that can't be divulged by a staff that can't exist and therefore needn't be bothered with warrants and whatnot? As for the gift shop, unless they are selling the gizmos of the cloak-and-dagger world, it's all just another T-shirt shop. I'd rather spend my money on Victoria's Secret. Frankly, Vicky's secrets seem to be less revealing these days than some of the explanations coming from the White House on a host of fronts. Maybe the administration should name a Secretary of Defensiveness. As for the NSA Web site, it is a comfort to know that it is one- stop shopping for governmental information on UFO intelligence - everything from alien autopsies to the alien abductors from Zeta Reticuli. It even has a separate page for children, the NSA's new "CryptoKids" site with its very own trademarked characters, Crypto Cat and Decipher Dog. "Hey, Crypto Cat, my parents are away for the weekend, want to come over and do some covert hide and seek?" Since Decipher Dog's stepmom allegedly works for the NSA, you can be certain his phone calls are being monitored the same way my mom listened in on my teenage conversations. Then the only rule of law needed was: Because I'm your mother. There are plenty of hang-ups about the NSA snooping coming from both Republicans and Democrats. And it appears there could be some congressional hearings into this domestic surveillance. Since I was not around during the McCarthy hearings, too young to remember the Watergate ones and too busy to understand the Iran-Contra contretemps, I certainly plan on listening in this time. Hey, maybe if I'm lucky, I'm on the list, whether it's warranted or not.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Happy New Year From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:15:42 -0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:00:14 -0500 Subject: Happy New Year I would like to take this opportunity to wish everyone on the
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:37:40 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Gehrman >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:53:40 -0400 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:16:11 -0800 >>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:14:57 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:00:50 -0800 >>>>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox ><snip> >>>Obviously one could and should make the point that the >>>observations of creatured manufactured craft, behaving in ways >>>that the craft we can make cannot behave, proves that aliens can >>>get here. >>I agree 100%, but even though they may be "alien" to humans, >>doesn't mean they must have come from the stars. You're >>excluding the possibility of "alien" civilizations either here >>on earth or from somewhere else in our solar system. I think >>that's a serious mistake. >With the right combination of isotopes such as Deuterium and >Helium-3, charged particles are born with 10 million times as >much energy per particle as they can get in a chemical rocket. >They are not accelerated to these huge energies, they are born >with them. Hi Stan, My research indicates that an energy source is not the problem. It's having enough energy of any kind to make star travel feasible. Theoretically, anything with mass, even a grain of sand, would require all the energy in the universe to reach light speed. Photons can travel at light speeds because they have no mass. >In addition using the gravitational fields of various >heavenly bodies extracts very little energy from them. The energy needed is more than can be delivered by any means. At least that's what conventional physics seems to say. >After all 99.9999% of the speed of light is still less, but is >awfully fast Less than the speed of light is another matter. That does depend on energy etc; but then time becomes a factor as do other scenarios and speculations. It's difficult to predict just how fast we will ultimately be able to travel. Shielding will probably be the main concern. Nanotechnology and molecular machines will play a big part. But will folks have the desire to travel to other stars when the vast wealth created by nanotechnology makes "every man a king"? >and the time slowing down is very appreciable. How appreciable? Theoretically time ends once the speed of light is reached since photons are timeless as well as massless, but it isn't clear to me how this works. If you were able to reach one percent the speed of light which is about 6,500,000 mph, how much would time slow down? >We already >create such particles in accelerators and nature does in the >case of certain cosmic rays. Don't we create the particles through collisions and the conversion of mass to energy? How do we know that time is a factor? >I don't have any good reason to even suggest that there are >other advanced technological civilizations based within the >solar system.. which is not to say there may not be alien bases >the equivalent of coaling stations in the Atlantic 100 years >ago. But the big steam vessels weren't built at those bases.It >is also not to say there haven't been past advanced >civilizations on Earth or Mars. I am talking in terms of places >able to build interstellar vehicles... now or even >interplanetary ones. If you have any evidence, put it on the >table. The only evidence to put "on the table" is the Santilli Autopsy footage. As I have written many times, I used to be a member of your choir, and a staunch defender of ETH. That was before I started studying the Alien Autopsy footage. The realization that I was examining a flesh-and-blood creature, and the debris of the craft she was piloting, caused a drastic reversal to my thinking. It came to me in a flash: "they don't have to be from the stars!" As I researched the subject, I became more convinced. To understand this, you'd have to spend some time viewing the footage with the understanding that it was not a fake or fraud
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Gehrman From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:36:43 -0800 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:04:33 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Gehrman >From: Bob Shell <bob.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:13:05 -0500 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:16:11 -0800 >>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>I agree 100%, but even though they may be "alien" to humans, >>doesn't mean they must have come from the stars. You're >>excluding the possibility of "alien" civilizations either here >>on earth or from somewhere else in our solar system. I think >>that's a serious mistake. >You are absolutely right, Ed. Hi Bob, Thanks for the support. >And it is equally as much a mistake to exclude the possibility >of "alien" civilizations from "somewhen" else here on earth or >in our solar system. Time travel is too mystical for me, and I don't understand the need to invoke it as a possibility when so many other possibilities are possible. >Ultimately, time travel may prove far easier than long distance >space travel. We have to learn to think outside our three- >dimensional box. We may be able to think outside our three dimensional boxs, but going outside is another matter. Again, these seem like mystical concepts. They are not good at explaining probes, and UFO, and the humanoids that are regularly seen and described. Something real is going on and pestering time travelers doesn't cut it for me as a realistic explanation. >Spacetime is multi-dimensional. One key point >that comes across in so many abduction stories is that the >"aliens" don't seem able to understand our concept of time. It >seems meaningless to them. As it rightly would to a being not >fettered by our blinders of three dimensional thinking.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: Happy New Year - Boily From: Denis Boily <denis.ufo.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:11:21 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:13:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Happy New Year - Boily >From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:15:42 -0000 >Subject: Happy New Year Merci Phillip Meilleur Voeux 2006 a tous
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 30 Re: Take Us To Your Professor - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:24:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:16:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Take Us To Your Professor - Friedman >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Date: Friday, December 30, 2005 10:51 AM >Subject: UFO UpDate: Take Us To Your Professor >Source: Salon.Com - San Francisco, California, USA >http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1998/09/22feature.html >Sept. 22, 1998 >Take Us To Your Professor >By Christina Valhouli >Since the time of Galileo, astronomers have pointed their >telescopes at the heavens and asked, "Are we alone in the >universe?" Now, that same question is being posed by historians, >political scientists, psychologists and sociologists who don't >use telescopes but the more elusive instruments of the soft >social sciences: research, oral history, theory and, finally, >conjecture. >Recently, popular culture has been suffused by man-made aliens. >From television shows like "The X Files" and "3rd Rock From the >Sun" to movies like "Independence Day" and "Men in Black," from >the ad campaign for the Volkswagen Beetle claiming the car has >been "reverse engineered" from UFOs to commercials in which ETs >promote Hostess Ding Dongs, Quisp "the qwazy energy cereal" and >Chilis restaurants, we can't seem to get enough of these >alternately adorable, wise and terrifying but always slimy >creatures. They've even starred alongside Kenny, Cartman, Stan >and Kyle in the premiere episode of "South Park," called "When >Cartman Gets an Anal Probe." <snip> >Christina Valhouli is a writer living in New York. What good excuse can there be for rehashing a grossly innaccurate and misleading article from 1998? So Communion was the first book about Abductions? "The Interrupted Journaey" beat it by decades. Roswell was Mogul? and I am a brain surgeon in a secret life..... May the new year subject us to fewer of these unenlightened
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:27:18 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:21:55 -0500 Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 - >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:33:33 -0500 >Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 07:00:35 -0600 >>Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>>From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 10:40:02 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>>>From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> >>>>To: ufoupdates.nul >>>>Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 21:52:05 +0000 >>>>Subject: Re: The Ufological Dung Heap Christmas 2005 >>>With respect, what you're suggesting here is criminal harassment >>>and murder, is it not? You did use the word 'maybe', which >>>suggests speculation only, not fact. >>Sir; >>Perhaps Mr. Dickenson was gently reminding the reader that >>criminal harassments and murders abound and that they are >>largely tolerated in a real world... but that the stark reality >>of the condition is such that it is intimidating enough to keep >>most from looking more than merely askance at it... even >>denying it, scoffing at it... sneering at it. ><snip> >There is a number prominently listed at the front of your phone >book you can call, if you are a federal employee who is being >threatened. There is also a United States Attorney who would be >interested in what you have to say. >I'm a resident of the District of Columbia, and as a former >grand juror, I've taken the instruction that in the District >even verbal threats and verbal assaults are felonies. Assault >doesn't have to be physical. It's most likely the same in many >other local jurisdictions. >I'm speaking of the civil side. Those familiar with military >jurisdictions may possibly comment. >However, if you have signed an oath not to reveal certain >information (and the oath probably includes acknowledgment of >criminal and/or administrative penalties) you are bound under >law by that oath. >That's true even if your top secret office has been charged with >delivering pizza to an underground alien base in New Mexico >(extra cheese). If you've agreed not to tell, you can't tell. >I've heard a few stories over the years about what popular >literature calls 'termination with extreme prejudice', and I've >yet to find reason to believe any of it. >However, if anyone has real evidence to the contrary, there is >always that phone number. It would seem you are willing to believe more of the mainstream 'myth' than I am, Sir. I was career military myself, and when a few of the men (and one woman) who had once been close friends ran into me again, subsequently, after many years? They told me that they'd tell me what they'd been up to... but they'd have to kill me. I only _half_ laughed. Knowuttamean? As to 'phone numbers' you can call? Well, don't worry about the masked men in black body armor... they're here to 'help'... You can probably bet it won't be help you want or need. Gonna let the 'train' run you down... aren't 'cha... "Soylant Green is people," Sir... is my suspicion. 'Anthills' or 'individual kingdom' secured. Our choice. That's my take on the 'state of the art', anyway.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Book Offers UFO Insight Missing From Blue Book From: Christopher Allan <cda.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:28:03 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:24:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Book Offers UFO Insight Missing From Blue Book >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul> >Date: Friday, December 30, 2005 1:47 PM >Subject: UFO UpDate: Book Offers UFO Insight Missing From Blue Book >New Book Offers UFO Insight Missing From Blue Book >Maybe it was inevitable - given as how conflict had been >hammered into his consciousness since the U.S. occupation of >Vera Cruz in 1914 - that Douglas MacArthur would frame his >farewell address to West Point in apocalyptic terms. >The old Army general went head-to-head with some of the 20th- >century's biggest militarists (Kaiser Wilhelm, Tojo, Chairman >Mao); surely, his 1962 warning to cadets about an "ultimate >conflict between a united human race and the sinister forces of >some other planetary galaxy" was a glib metaphor. >Except for a niggling little controversy that won't go away. And >on the 36th anniversary of the termination of Project Blue Book >- the official U.S. Air Force study that concluded unidentified >flying objects weren't a threat to national security - examining >government failures should be an annual media ritual each >December. >For decades, MacArthur's name has been linked to the >Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit (IPU), a top-secret military >outfit allegedly founded in the 1940s to investigate UFOs. Long >regarded as apocryphal by critics, the IPU's existence - if not >its mission - was confirmed by the Army on at least three >different occasions in response to Freedom of Information Act >requests. <snip> Another zany book? These guys never give up it seems. So we now know that Generals Marshall & MacArthur were both in it and knew all about interplanetary UFOs, and so on and so on..... By the way, there is an interesting account of the enmity that existed between the two generals in Alistair Cooke's "Letter from America" on the occasion of Marshall's death in Oct 1959. MacArthur said not one word about his late contemporary , for personal reasons.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:58:59 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:27:59 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Clark >From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:56:18 +0000 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:25:55 -0600 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:33 +0000 >>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 15:10:08 -0600 >>>>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>>>If you are arguing that the various entities _seen_ by asp >>>experients are not subjective, what do you think they are[?]. >>I have no idea, and neither do you. The difference is that I >>admit it. >You really have to say you have no idea what could lie behind >any objective bedroom visitants because any such ideas would >involve the sort of paranormal hypotheses that you have attacked >in previous posts. E.g. shape-shifting boggarts; the witnesses >producing the figure themselves by means of psychokinesis; the >phenomenon reads their fears and projects images into the room; >the nasty old witch down the road sends her astral body to >torment the poor witness (the main cross cultural explanation >for the Hag experience). It's not a very attractive list is it? >Not that there is actually any good evidence out there for >objective bedroom visitants in the first place. I do appreciate your efforts, which by now are remarkable, to demonstrate the inadequacy of reductionist approaches to the abduction enigma. In that sense at least, Peter, the Magonia project is surely not in vain. As I have written repeatedly, most recently in an autobiographical essay in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, the actual, as opposed to pretend, answers to the questions raised by extraordinary encounters apparently lie beyond current knowledge. That's why we have so much trouble explaining them otherwise. After decades - actually, many centuries - that seems fairly self evident. By now, it is also clear, attempts to contain such puzzling aspects of human experience within the confines of a sweeping, furious, and rigidly enforced orthodoxy - pelicanism, as I recall one wag's branding this lamentable approach - are of little more than clinical and/or anthropological (and, yes, sometimes comic) interest. Persons looking for useful data and potentially rewarding theoretical approaches will have to search elsewhere than at the Sceptics Club at the Pelican Pub, where members gather to congratulate each other on how rational they are. As a nonmember, I feel no compulsion to declare certainty (or its effective equivalent) where no certainty (or its effective equivalent) exists. If certainty (or its EE) unites contactees, Spiritualists, and pelicanists, that alone ought to tell the rest of us where it (or its EE) gets us. In short, I say to you: If you believe you have the answers, I hope that it makes you feel better; as for me, I'm still uncertain, unsettled, and searching. If anything, with each passing year I grow less certain of anything, except the limitations of my - and all of our - understanding. And in the meantime, of course, I despair at the lengths to which we all go to deny those limitations. Yours in curiosity, open-mindedness, modesty intellectual and existential, and the humble agnosticism that surely follows. Beyond that, sincere wishes for a Happy New Year to you and yours,
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:00:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:31:52 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Friedman >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:37:40 -0800 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:53:40 -0400 >>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox <snip> >>With the right combination of isotopes such as Deuterium and >>Helium-3, charged particles are born with 10 million times as >>much energy per particle as they can get in a chemical rocket. >>They are not accelerated to these huge energies, they are born >>with them. >My research indicates that an energy source is not the problem. >It's having enough energy of any kind to make star travel >feasible. Theoretically, anything with mass, even a grain of >sand, would require all the energy in the universe to reach >light speed. Photons can travel at light speeds because they >have no mass. >>In addition using the gravitational fields of various >>heavenly bodies extracts very little energy from them. >The energy needed is more than can be delivered by any means. At >least that's what conventional physics seems to say. >>After all 99.9999% of the speed of light is still less, but is >>awfully fast >Less than the speed of light is another matter. That does depend >on energy etc; but then time becomes a factor as do other >scenarios and speculations. It's difficult to predict just how >fast we will ultimately be able to travel. Shielding will >probably be the main concern. Nanotechnology and molecular >machines will play a big part. But will folks have the desire to >travel to other stars when the vast wealth created by >nanotechnology makes "every man a king"? >>And the time slowing down is very appreciable. >How appreciable? There is loads of info. Standard physics stuff. But to give a specific example, it takes only one year at 1G to get close to the speed of light. At 99.9%c, it takes 20 months pilot time to go 37 light years. At 99.99%c it only takes 6 months pilot time to go 37 light years. Go out, come back, marry your grandchild's best friend etc. >Theoretically time ends once the speed of light is reached since >photons are timeless as well as massless, but it isn't clear to >me how this works. If you were able to reach one percent the >speed of light which is about 6,500,000 mph, how much would time >slow down? >>We already >>create such particles in accelerators and nature does in the >>case of certain cosmic rays. >Don't we create the particles through collisions and the >conversion of mass to energy? How do we know that time is a >factor? Accelerator designers and people studying cosmic rays have long since taken time slowing down at high velocity into account. Two important point that apparently need repeating. The rocket can take advantage of cosmic freeloading. We do it for all our flights to the other solar system planets, to the moon etc. We don't provide all the energy to the planet or moon's gravitational field or to the electric andmagnetic fields out there is deep space. Mother nature does... Secondly, fusion reactions which indeed convert a wee bit of mass to loads of energy can produce charged particles having enormous energy and able to be accelerated with electric and magnetic fields. The created particles are born with high energy. >>I don't have any good reason to even suggest that there are >>other advanced technological civilizations based within the >>solar system.. which is not to say there may not be alien bases >>the equivalent of coaling stations in the Atlantic 100 years >>ago. But the big steam vessels weren't built at those bases. It >>is also not to say there haven't been past advanced >>civilizations on Earth or Mars. I am talking in terms of places >>able to build interstellar vehicles... now or even >>interplanetary ones. If you have any evidence, put it on the >>table. >The only evidence to put "on the table" is the Santilli Autopsy >footage. As I have written many times, I used to be a member of >your choir, and a staunch defender of ETH. That was before I >started studying the Alien Autopsy footage. The realization that >I was examining a flesh-and-blood creature, and the debris of >the craft she was piloting, caused a drastic reversal to my >thinking. It came to me in a flash: "they don't have to be from >the stars!" As I researched the subject, I became more >convinced. >To understand this, you'd have to spend some time viewing the >footage with the understanding that it was not a fake or fraud >and depicts a real event. Then we might discuss the problems it >presents for the ETH. I can't see any way in which studying the Santilli footage (even
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Scheldroup From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:12:33 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:44:21 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Scheldroup >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:37:40 -0800 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:53:40 -0400 >>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:16:11 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>>Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:14:57 -0400 >>>>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox <snip> >>>>Obviously one could and should make the point that the >>>>observations of creatured manufactured craft, behaving in ways >>>>that the craft we can make cannot behave, proves that aliens can >>>>get here. >>>I agree 100%, but even though they may be "alien" to humans, >>>doesn't mean they must have come from the stars. You're >>>excluding the possibility of "alien" civilizations either here >>>on earth or from somewhere else in our solar system. I think >>>that's a serious mistake. >>With the right combination of isotopes such as Deuterium and >>Helium-3, charged particles are born with 10 million times as >>much energy per particle as they can get in a chemical rocket. >>They are not accelerated to these huge energies, they are born >>with them. >My research indicates that an energy source is not the problem. >It's having enough energy of any kind to make star travel >feasible. Theoretically, anything with mass, even a grain of >sand, would require all the energy in the universe to reach >light speed. Photons can travel at light speeds because they >have no mass. Hi Ed, You may wish to check your Physics for better <G>. Consider: What happens if you let the sphere that has an perfect reflecting surface, that it contains photons to become larger? The number of photons bouncing per unit of time *should* go down, right? And these are the forces that look like mass, right? What about the direction of the photons? Only those going up & down (or the vector components of the momentum others that do otherwise) can contribute... a horizontally moving photon would not show any "mass" effect, would it? Unless acceleration "polarizes" the photons in some way into becoming vertical in direction. Now consider that "bound momentum" in relation to Higgs... could it be that all mass is just bound momentum in some way? How would momentum be mediated to produce gravity or similar? If you could orient all bound photons horizontally in "mass particles" would the effective mass go to zero with energy &
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Another UFO Sighted In Santa Rosa Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:26:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:10:32 -0500 Subject: Another UFO Sighted In Santa Rosa Argentina INEXPLICATA The Journal of Hispanic Ufology December 30, 2005 Source: Planeta UFO Date: 12.30.05 Argentina: Another UFO Sighted In Santa Rosa by Salvador Valentin Carta, (Santa Rosa, La Pampa) This event took place at 16:10 hours on December 24, 2005, when two persons in Santa Rosa (La Pampa, Argentina) noticed an object that drew their attention. Said object was "high" with regard to the witnesses, some 42 degrees from their perspective and from the ground, heading east, directly over our town's Hospital, from which the onlookers were 600 meters distant. It turned out that the obejct, whose color was silvery, like burnished aluminum, remained there for approximately 10 minutes -- static over the medical facility -- and then slowly and steadily moved toward the northeast, coming closer to the witnesses and remaining at a constant altitude. At that point, the object stopped some 75 degrees above the witnesses as it progressed toward the northeast. During that "stop", another object having similar characteristics went right past the initial UFO but at a dazzling speed, from northwest to southeast, crossing between the witnesses and the static object. When asked if the object flew rapidly, etc. they merely replied that it "passed" [overhead], not giving them time for anything. I will provide you later on with the pertinent calculations to ascertain the velocity, considering that this happened in a split-second. It did not leave a wake nor any points of reference; it was identical to the static object. After this, it a steady and constant manner, the "main" UFO headed northeast toward the airfield, according to the witnesses, until it accelerated and vanished from sight at a given moment. I believe that the object would have been some 20-25 meters in diameter and was at an elevation of 300 meters. This conclusion is drawn based upon my inquiries from the witnesses, who used their outstretched hands and thumbs for comparison, stating that the object covered [an area the size] of a thumbnail.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Happy New Year - Groff From: Terry Groff <terrygroff.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:44:32 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:11:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Happy New Year - Groff >From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:15:42 -0000 >Subject: Happy New Year >I would like to take this opportunity to wish everyone on the >List a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Not A Bird Or Plane? It Must Be A UFO - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:51:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:15:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Not A Bird Or Plane? It Must Be A UFO - Ledger UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote: >Source: The Manila Times - The Philippines >http://tinyurl.com/9lqoj >Friday, December 30, 2005 >Not A Bird Or Plane? It Must Be A UFO >By Al Jacinto >Correspondent >ZAMBOANGA CITY: An unidentified flying object was sighted >hovering over a quiet village in Zamboanga City. <snip>
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Take Us To Your Professor - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:34:27 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:17:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Take Us To Your Professor - Maccabee >Source: Salon.Com - San Francisco, California, USA >http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1998/09/22feature.html >Sept. 22, 1998 >Take Us To Your Professor >By Christina Valhouli >Since the time of Galileo, astronomers have pointed their >telescopes at the heavens and asked, "Are we alone in the >universe?" Now, that same question is being posed by historians, >political scientists, psychologists and sociologists who don't >use telescopes but the more elusive instruments of the soft >social sciences: research, oral history, theory and, finally, >conjecture. <snip> >Since then, academia and UFOs have remained blessedly separate. >Until now. Despite ufology's stigma as an area of study for >Weekly World News suckers and backwater eccentrics, a growing >number of academics are risking their careers to come out of the >extraterrestrial closet and openly study UFOs. >The best known and most controversial is Harvard psychiatrist >John Mack, who uses hypnosis to determine if people have been >abducted. Once the cr=E8me de la cr=E8me at Harvard, Mack built its >psychiatry program from scratch and won a Pulitzer Prize for his >1977 biography of psychoanalyst T.E. Lawrence. Now he could be >considered cr=E8me br=FBlee. Mack's colleagues view him as an >embarrassment and make no bones about it. >"I disagree with his conclusions and think he's totally >deluded," says Dr. Paul Horowitz, an astronomer at Harvard who i>s currently working on the SETI (the Search for Extra >Terrestrial Intelligence) project. >Mack burst onto the scene in 1994 when he published "Abduction: >Human Encounters With Aliens." Although he wasn't the first to >write about abduction (that honor belongs to Whitley Streiber, >author of "Communion"), he was the first academic to venture >into the field armed with heavy credentials. Gag. >The book grew out of his relationship with Budd Hopkins, a New >York artist and sculptor who runs a free support group for >abductees. Hopkins, who had written three bestselling books >based on testimony from his support group, began sending many of >his self-proclaimed abductees to Mack for intensive interviews >and investigation. >But these studies and the publications that chronicled them >ultimately proved fatal to Mack's academic career. Eventually, >he quit teaching at Harvard and now runs PEER, the Program for >Extraordinary Experience Research, a nonprofit, privately funded >organization that researches alien abduction. The organization >publishes a newsletter and offers a referral service to licensed >therapists. >If Mack is the founding father of ufology, Obviously this writer knows/knew very little <snip> >Gradually, though, I began to get a glimpse of the field as a >whole. Ufology is interrelated to the point of being incestuous. >It's like following a choose-your-own adventure novel. Start >with one person and it will eventually lead back to Mack. Gag. >Along >the way, ufologists bash each other and credit themselves with >starting a movement or particular idea. After weeks of calling >ufologists all over the country, I came away with another >peculiar observation: These people seem to hate one another. >Given that their common interests have put their jobs and >reputations at risk, you'd think they might stick up for one >another. >Perhaps this is best explained as guilt by association. Indeed, >most of the professors I interviewed seemed to have a love/hate >relationship with UFOs. They say they regret their decision and >the ridicule that comes with the stigma of studying UFOs, but >they continue to follow the path to Golgotha. "It's fair to say >my job marketability has decreased," says Ron Westrum, who >teaches sociology at Eastern Michigan. "I can pretty much count >on not moving up in my department." >If ufology is so scary and such a career stopper, why do it? For >one thing, it's a way for professors to claw their way out of >their second-tier colleges and obscurity. If books like "The >Celestine Prophecy" and "The Horse Whisperer" can make the New >York Times Bestseller list, then aliens are a shoo-in. Schlock >sells, and professors know this. I wonder if this writer has any statistics on how many 'professors' have substantial incomes from writing UFO books. >One example the only one? >is the ultra-excitable Jodi Dean of Hobart and >William Smith colleges. Her book, "Aliens in America," explores >how and why aliens have captured the popular imagination. As a >woman in an almost exclusively male field, she is an anomaly. >But more remarkable still, she wrote the book before tenure and >was recently awarded the Faculty Award for Excellence in >Scholarship. Dean says she was drawn to aliens because her first >book, on feminism, had an audience of "about five people." Of >course, a cultural anaylsis of aliens in popular culture and >actually saying aliens exist are two different things. >While her book was recently panned in the New York Times Book >Review for endorsing the culture of paranoia, Dean argues >persuasively that the current alien craze was ignited by the >1986 Challenger Shuttle explosion. Until then, she maintains, >space represented freedom, adventure and prosperity. But when an >ordinary woman like Christa McAuliffe was killed by her venture >into outer space, suddenly the heavens again became a threat. >The following year the first abduction book hit the shelves - >Streiber's "Communion" - and abduction theory was born.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Maybe The NSA Is Listening In - Jones From: Sean Jones <tedric.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 19:34:50 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:18:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Maybe The NSA Is Listening In - Jones >Source: LA Daily News - LosAngeles, California, USA >http://www.dailynews.com/opinions/ci_3350983 >Maybe The NSA Is Listening In >By Stephanie Becker >Guest Columnist <snip> Sounds to me like Stephanie has just read Dan Brown's "Digital Fortress" novel. http://www.danbrown.com/novels/digital_fortress/reviews.html Regards Sean
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:37:18 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:23:12 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Lehmberg >From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:15:54 -0000 >Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >>From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:47:11 -0800 >>Subject: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox ><snip> >>Is there some long-standing galactic law against colonizing the >>Earth that is so effectively enforced that not a single >>civilization has violated it in all of the time that Earth has >>been ripe for colonization? I don't have the answers to these >>questions (and neither does anyone else), but it is clear that >>the ETH is not a complete answer to the Fermi Paradox. >Hello David, List, >Unless I am suffering from a radical misperception, I think >people are overly impressed by the so-called Fermi paradox. Even >setting aside the issue as to whether or not UFOs represent ET >visitation, here are just a few suggestions which overcome the >perceived paradox; Still it lingers like a grail, an ardent hope they force to sail. But it falls short... as you point out. That there's enigma? There _is_ no doubt. >1. Humans are unique in the universe - there is no other >intelligent life. (Fermi's own "solution" to his "paradox"). What happens once will happen twice, given time? It 'happens' thrice. Given time and chance suspected? A 'fourth' portends to be detected. This goes without an end in sight, and should _not_ cause concern or fright. >2. Humanity is the pinnacle of the civilised universe, and will >be the pioneers of interstellar travel. Wishful thinking we pretend to prop our hubris, I contend. As I age I'm less impressed with strides we take, I now confess. We betray potential 'had' to ape the 'master'... be that glad. We but hang from specious threads. 'God' but blinks... and we're struck dead! >3. Other intelligent life has not reached a point in their >civilisation where interstellar travel is either sufficiently >inexpensive or low-risk, or if they have, their race has not >survived long enough to reach us. And so we whistle, sad and low. Still, _objects_ 'flash' and 'swoop' and 'glow'. >4. If other intelligent life has reached a stage where >interstellar travel is inexpensive and low risk, they have >greater priorities than visiting/colonising/exploiting earth eg >defending themselves against an equally or more advanced >coloniser/ exploiter, or taking out civilisations which >currently present a greater risk to them than humanity currently >does. And now we'd make them just like us? Their 'tooth' and 'claw' extended thus? These might find, one comes to think, 'dominion' causes one to 'stink' when _novelty_ is disrespected and _habit_ reasserts _its_ dialectic. 'Dominion' is a specialization... leading to eradication. Diversity is living change to meet a challenge new and strange. We must err to think them 'us' as we've no chops for thinking thus. We're like children, understand, who think we have some answers, man! Our knowledge of _ourselves_ is dim. How can we then, then think for 'them'? >5. Other intelligent life has a policy of non-interference in >the affairs of planets that have not developed interstellar >travel themselves. I find I laugh the least at this. The premise is 'respectfulness'. Plus, it's in our popular culture thanks to Mr. Smith's conjecture. This was _not_ a StarTrek thing. Gene would cop it, I would think. And it reflects the _best_ in us, that we would make it popular, thus. >6. Humanity is a crop which will not be ripe for several >millenia. ET visits occasionally to do a bit of weeding, but >doesn't want to arouse too much interest and frighten the herd >before it is ready for slaughter. This will start to worry me the moment 'Bush' does 'nuance'! See? We're too prone to eat our own to whack the 'other' with this stone. We need not look for beasts 'without'. We have our 'own' to think about. >7. Other intelligence is so far in advance of us it has >absolutely no interest in us, in the same way that we are not >interested in developing diplomatic relations with the slugs >that make a mess when you step on them by accident. I suspect this could be true, but what is this to me and you? There is much beyond our scope, for we are homocentric dopes! We pronounce, pretend, proclaim, that we are sober... but we're _insane_. We foul our nests and murder kids... but not by accident! For _profits_ kiss! >8. The value systems of other intelligences are so different >from ours that it would not occur to them to >visit/colonise/exploit earth. And this is just another facet. One _more_ idea we're not facing! Consciousness precludes disinterest of that which must impact 'best interest'. >9. Other intelligence is afraid of us because we carry deadly >bacteria against which they have no defence. If they can 'fly' here, take the trouble? I dare say they won't drink from puddles. >10. For some unknown (to us) reason, contact with other >intelligence would be mutually fatal. And now to grasp at specious straws? We presuppose, contrive new laws? There seems a massive evidence, friend. Six huge levels, I contend. Fermi's hubris is our bandit. His paradox? Shipped high in transit. >I could go on, but the bottom line is that there is no paradox - >all that can be done until we can be sure either way is >speculate on solutions to a speculative paradox. Why waste >bandwidth on it? The paradox is prosecuted, kept alive, to make confusion. Many dread the awful 'other', Fermi serves to keep it smothered. It remains the skies are filled with that which won't fill Fermi's bill. But he's been useful, and the clarion... a breath of HOPE for scared klasskurtxians.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Reason From: Cathy Reason <Cathym.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:44:02 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:27:59 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Reason >From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:15:54 -0000 >Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >Unless I am suffering from a radical misperception, I think >people are overly impressed by the so-called Fermi paradox. Even >setting aside the issue as to whether or not UFOs represent ET >visitation, here are just a few suggestions which overcome the >perceived paradox; <snip> I think this rather misses the point of the Fermi paradox (not to mention its subtlety and power) which is that it puts boundary constraints on the product of the Drake equation. This effectively rules out most of the scenarios you mention, not because they are impossible, but because they are *unstable* - that is, along with the classical sci-fi, "Star Trek" and SETI scenarios, they represent unstable equilibrium states in the evolution of the galaxy. It only takes a single perturbation, in the form of one aggressive, successful colonizing civilization to emerge in the galaxy, at any time from the beginning of the universe up to about a billion or so years ago, and the equilibrium is destroyed. There are only two _stable_ solutions to the Fermi paradox - one in which intelligent life in our galaxy is unique or vanishingly rare, and one in which the galaxy is already fully colonized.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - From: Ray Dickenson <ray.dickenson.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:41:04 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:40:34 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - >From: Pavel Chichikov <fishhook.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:04:24 -0500 >Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >>From: David Chace <davidwchace.nul> >>To: ufoupdates.nul >>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:47:11 -0800 >>Subject: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >>Applying Occam's razor to the available evidence, I accept the >>likelihood that some UFOs are someone else's spacecraft. So that >>answers the question "Where are they?" However, it does not >>address the question "Where were they?" Specifically, why hasn't >>an extraterrestrial civilization long ago colonized the Earth, >>stripped it of all its natural resources, and/or turned the >>Earth into part of its galactic franchise operation? ><snip> >Because the planet is already spoken for? Maybe it's someone's >property. >Charles Fort proposed that hypothesis a long time ago. Pavel, that's a much under appreciated possibility - Q - How would exploration/exploitation be effected? A1 - Robotic exploration by (f.t.l.?) inertia-less drive vehicles. A2 - Followed by instantaneous (and therefore safer) transmission of "live" operators/agents if an interesting planet is found Q - What would advanced beings (alien - probably by now mainly non-organic) want from a planet inhabited by primitive (still fully organic) beings? A1 - Not likely to be "natural resources" of non-organic matter - these are far more abundant and more easily acquired in regions of space, with no need to enter gravity wells of solar systems, thick with obstacles and possible impactors. A2 - Much more likely to be some form of "experience" or "research" or even organic "experimental material" depending on far-future needs that we can have no inkling of. Let's not forget that our military and political leaders have said many times - "UFOs/ETs are no threat to national security" Which, taken at face value, could mean that deals have been made. Cheers
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 More State Studies And Maps Up From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:23:55 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:42:34 -0500 Subject: More State Studies And Maps Up Hello all: In spite of some computer trouble here, I have more state studies up. These include maps and statistics as always. Last time I mentioned pages for Massachusetts (with Connecticut and Rhode Island). http://www.larryhatch.net/MACTRI.html and of course New Mexico: http://www.larryhatch.net/NMEX.html I'm not sure if that message got out properly. Now I have two more ready: Michigan: http://www.larryhatch.net/MICH.html and Illinois - Indiana (combined) http://www.larryhatch.net/ILIN.html Any feedback and corrections are very welcome.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Fatima Apparitions Communication Process - From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 17:46:43 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:44:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Fatima Apparitions Communication Process - >From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:19:03 -0000 >Subject: Fatima Apparitions Communication Process <snip> >So, it is not absurd conclude that the communication signal from >the Luminous Lady to Lucia during the Fatima Apparitions 1917 >episodes seems to be coherent with a range around 200 Hz, which >is compatible with the experimental data obtained by the >Microwave Auditive Phenomenon as we can find in the literature >produced by Canadian, French and Americans researchers since >decades. Or, as it has been established since decades that those >laboratorial experiments confirmed the possibility of reception >of signals inside of the human brain. 200 - 400 Hz is _way-y-y-y_ below the microwave region. Dr. Allen Frey's experiments explored microwave auditory effects from around 125 MHz up into the 8,000 MHz range. Also, in 1917, where would the microwave come from if it were
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Happy New Year - Stevenson From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:04:55 +0000 (GMT) Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 11:47:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Happy New Year - Stevenson >From: Denis Boily <denis.ufo.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 10:11:21 -0500 >Subject: Re: Happy New Year >>From: Philip Mantle <philip.nul> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:15:42 -0000 >>Subject: Happy New Year >Merci Phillip >Meilleur Voeux 2006 a tous >And Happy New Year to everyone on the list, healthy and >prosperous New Year. Plus a wondrous Hogmanay from Scotland, Mercury, Venus, Earth's Moon, Mars, Jupiter Moon IO, Miranda and from/to the colsweb UFO/ET Worldwide penfriends club.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Rogerson From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:41:17 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:09:22 -0500 Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' - Rogerson >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 09:58:59 -0600 >Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' >>From: Peter Rogerson <progerson.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:56:18 +0000 >>Subject: Re: CNN Item On 'Alien Abduction?' <snip> >I do appreciate your efforts, which by now are remarkable, to >demonstrate the inadequacy of reductionist approaches to the >abduction enigma. In that sense at least, Peter, the Magonia >project is surely not in vain. >As I have written repeatedly, most recently in an >autobiographical essay in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, >the actual, as opposed to pretend, answers to the questions >raised by extraordinary encounters apparently lie beyond current >knowledge. That's why we have so much trouble explaining them >otherwise. >After decades - actually, many centuries - that seems fairly >self evident. By now, it is also clear, attempts to contain such >puzzling aspects of human experience within the confines of a >sweeping, furious, and rigidly enforced orthodoxy - pelicanism, >as I recall one wag's branding this lamentable approach - are of >little more than clinical and/or anthropological (and, yes, >sometimes comic) interest. Persons looking for useful data and >potentially rewarding theoretical approaches will have to search >elsewhere than at the Sceptics Club at the Pelican Pub, where >members gather to congratulate each other on how rational they >are. >As a nonmember, I feel no compulsion to declare certainty (or >its effective equivalent) where no certainty (or its effective >equivalent) exists. If certainty (or its EE) unites contactees, >Spiritualists, and pelicanists, that alone ought to tell the >rest of us where it (or its EE) gets us. In short, I say to you: >If you believe you have the answers, I hope that it makes you >feel better; as for me, I'm still uncertain, unsettled, and >searching. If anything, with each passing year I grow less >certain of anything, except the limitations of my - and all of >our - understanding. And in the meantime, of course, I despair >at the lengths to which we all go to deny those limitations. >Yours in curiosity, open-mindedness, modesty intellectual and >existential, and the humble agnosticism that surely follows. >Beyond that, sincere wishes for a Happy New Year to you and >yours, In other words you have no answer to my point. Trying to
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:51:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:23:36 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Ledger >From: Cathy Reason <Cathym.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:44:02 -0000 >Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:15:54 -0000 >>Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >>Unless I am suffering from a radical misperception, I think >>people are overly impressed by the so-called Fermi paradox. Even >>setting aside the issue as to whether or not UFOs represent ET >>visitation, here are just a few suggestions which overcome the >>perceived paradox; ><snip> >I think this rather misses the point of the Fermi paradox (not >to mention its subtlety and power) which is that it puts >boundary constraints on the product of the Drake equation. This >effectively rules out most of the scenarios you mention, not >because they are impossible, but because they are *unstable* - >that is, along with the classical sci-fi, "Star Trek" and SETI >scenarios, they represent unstable equilibrium states in the >evolution of the galaxy. It only takes a single perturbation, in >the form of one aggressive, successful colonizing civilization >to emerge in the galaxy, at any time from the beginning of the >universe up to about a billion or so years ago, and the equilibrium is destroyed. >There are only two _stable_ solutions to the Fermi paradox - >one in which intelligent life in our galaxy is unique or >vanishingly rare, and one in which the galaxy is already fully >colonized. These can be regarded as attractors to which all >intermediate states will inevitably evolve. In a related matter see the following. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/051208_spiral_arm.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Rendlesham Forest UFO Media Coverage - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick.nul> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:59:23 -0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:26:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Rendlesham Forest UFO Media Coverage - Pope The 25th anniversary of the Rendlesham Forest UFO incident attracted significant interest not only from specialist UFO/paranormal magazines and radio stations, but also from the mainstream media. From the latter, I'm aware of the following: October 30 - BBC Radio Eastern Counties/Naked Scientists podcast November 19 - Daily Express November 19 - BBC Radio Suffolk December 17 - 'Britain's Roswell', History Channel (US) December 18 - BBC Radio Eastern Counties December 20 and 27 - East Anglian Daily Times December 21 - TalkSport Radio December 24 - Eastern Daily Press December 26 - The Sun December 26 - BBC Radio Five Live December 27 - 'UFO Invasion At Rendlesham', Sci-Fi Channel (US) December 27 - BBC News website
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: Fatima Apparitions Communication Process - From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 10:04:31 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:27:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Fatima Apparitions Communication Process - >From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul> >To: ufoupdates.nul >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 17:46:43 -0500 >Subject: Re: Fatima Apparitions Communication Process >>From: Joaquim Fernandes <j.fernan.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:19:03 -0000 >>Subject: Fatima Apparitions Communication Process ><snip> >>So, it is not absurd conclude that the communication signal >>from the Luminous Lady to Lucia during the Fatima Apparitions >>1917 episodes seems to be coherent with a range around 200 Hz, >>which is compatible with the experimental data obtained by the >>Microwave Auditive Phenomenon as we can find in the literature >>produced by Canadian, French and Americans researchers since >>decades. Or, as it has been established since decades that those >>laboratorial experiments confirmed the possibility of reception >>of signals inside of the human brain. >200 - 400 Hz is _way-y-y-y_ below the microwave region. Dr. >Allen Frey's experiments explored microwave auditory effects >from around 125 MHz up into the 8,000 MHz range. >Also, in 1917, where would the microwave come from if it were >microwave voice to skull transmission? Hello Eleanor, Joaquim:
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: The Faith-Based Science Of Susan Clancy - From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 13:31:25 -0800 (PST) Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:47:01 -0500 Subject: Re: The Faith-Based Science Of Susan Clancy - >From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul> >To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - >Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:43:06 -0500 >Subject: The Faith-Based Science Of Susan Clancy >Source: The Intruders Foundation - New York, NY, USA >http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/faith_based.html >October, 2005 >The Faith-Based Science Of Susan Clancy >By Budd Hopkins <snip> >The ideology [Susan Clancy and Richard J. McNally] shared assumed >that such experiences were, ipso facto, false memories, a theory >the two seem to believe as fervently as the Pope believes in the >virgin birth. Bravo to Budd Hopkins for writing about Clancy and McNally's ideological collusion. I hope such discussion by laymen will someday lead to a careful review of their work by their peers, and their preordained conclusions and misrepresentations will be exposed in professional publications. Nonetheless, despite my appreciation of Hopkins' effort, I must make one critique of his essay; the part in which he again tries to discount the spiritual import (for lack of a better term) of the alien encounter experience. Much could be said about where Susan Clancy gets it wrong. But Clancy gets it right when she affirms what many alien researchers have observed. "All of the subjects reported that the most traumatic experiences in their lives were abduction related," Clancy writes. "But some of them," she continues, "also reported that their most positive life experiences were abduction related as well...all of the subjects, without exception, said that they felt changed because of their experiences... Being abducted by aliens," Clancy concludes, "is a transformative event." In the following passage, Hopkins hits back at Clancy's criticism that he is "deaf" to this element of the experience by discounting the element as a panacea the mind invents to cope: >...one occasionally comes across an abductee who is >fully aware of the emotional trauma he has suffered, but who is >nevertheless willing to regard these experiences as being, in >some way, spiritually uplifting. For such people, this positive >view of traumatic events is probably a coping strategy, similar >to that of certain battered wives who will not complain to the >police, but instead insist that their abusive husbands really do >love them. On reading this, I showed the essay to a friend and asked her opinion about why Budd tends to misread the spiritual componant of alien encounters. She noted that Budd used the term "spiritually uplifting". But "spiritually informative" would be a more accurate term, she suggested. People who describe themselves as having grown spiritually from their experiences (and I include myself among them), or who have developed insights into reality that might be thought of today as spiritual models, are responding to the presence of new information - their experiences. Unlike being beaten by one's husband, alien encounters present people with new information that is then incorporated into every aspect of the self - mental, spiritual, physical. This inner process may indeed be "uplifting" even if the alien
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 22:26:23 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:53:03 -0500 Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox - Hall >From: Cathy Reason <Cathym.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 20:44:02 -0000 >Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:15:54 -0000 >>Subject: Re: ETH Does Not Solve The Fermi Paradox >>Unless I am suffering from a radical misperception, I think >>people are overly impressed by the so-called Fermi paradox. Even >>setting aside the issue as to whether or not UFOs represent ET >>visitation, here are just a few suggestions which overcome the >>perceived paradox; >I think this rather misses the point of the Fermi paradox (not >to mention its subtlety and power) which is that it puts >boundary constraints on the product of the Drake equation. This >effectively rules out most of the scenarios you mention, not >because they are impossible, but because they are *unstable* - > that is, along with the classical sci-fi, "Star Trek" and SETI >scenarios, they represent unstable equilibrium states in the >evolution of the galaxy. It only takes a single perturbation, in >the form of one aggressive, successful colonizing civilization >to emerge in the galaxy, at any time from the beginning of the >universe up to about a billion or so years ago, and the >equilibrium is destroyed. >There are only two _stable_ solutions to the Fermi paradox - one >in which intelligent life in our galaxy is unique or vanishingly >rare, and one in which the galaxy is already fully colonized. >These can be regarded as attractors to which all intermediate >states will inevitably evolve. >Cathy Well, even though I majored in philosophy (with strong scientific emphasis) and minored in mathematics, I don't claim to understand what Cathy is saying here. _But_; like Joe, I think Fermi's Paradox - which really is nothing but an off-the-wall speculation by a scientist with no known interest in, or awareness of UFOs - is over-rated. The obvious - to me - answer is that 'they' are and have been right here under our noses for a long time, but 'we' (mostly
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: UFOUpDatesList.Com > 2005 > Dec > Dec 31 Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Randle From: Kevin Randle <KRandle993.nul> Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 16:59:41 EST Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 19:50:02 -0500 Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox - Randle >From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >To: <ufoupdates.nul> >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:00:16 -0400 >Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul> >>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:37:40 -0800 >>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox >>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul> >>>To: <ufoupdates.nul> >>>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 22:53:40 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: There Is No Fermi Paradox <snip> >>>With the right combination of isotopes such as Deuterium and >>>Helium-3, charged particles are born with 10 million times as >>>much energy per particle as they can get in a chemical rocket. >>>They are not accelerated to these huge energies, they are born >>>with them. >>My research indicates that an energy source is not the problem. >>It's having enough energy of any kind to make star travel >>feasible. Theoretically, anything with mass, even a grain of >>sand, would require all the energy in the universe to reach >>light speed. Photons can travel at light speeds because they >>have no mass. >>>In addition using the gravitational fields of various >>>heavenly bodies extracts very little energy from them. >>The energy needed is more than can be delivered by any means. At >>least that's what conventional physics seems to say. >>>After all 99.9999% of the speed of light is still less, but is >>>awfully fast >>Less than the speed of light is another matter. That does depend >>on energy etc; but then time becomes a factor as do other >>scenarios and speculations. It's difficult to predict just how >>fast we will ultimately be able to travel. Shielding will >>probably be the main concern. Nanotechnology and molecular >>machines will play a big part. But will folks have the desire to >>travel to other stars when the vast wealth created by >>nanotechnology makes "every man a king"? >>>And the time slowing down is very appreciable. >>How appreciable? >There is loads of info. Standard physics stuff. But to give a >specific example, it takes only one year at 1G to get close to >the speed of light. At 99.9%c, it takes 20 months pilot time to >go 37 light years. At 99.99%c it only takes 6 months pilot time >to go 37 light years. Go out, come back, marry your grandchild's >best friend etc. Let's not forget that it'll take as long to decelerate as it does to accelerate and let's not forget we have to do both on each end of the trip. So that's about four years more of pilot time! And what happens if the ship hits something the size of a golf ball while traveling at relativistic speeds? In fact, how would you spot something like that before you hit it? And not a thing has been said about shielding=E2=80=A6 no, not from the engines but from everything in space. My understanding is that if we launch a ship into space and then approach the speed of light, it is similar to bombarding it with radiation, just as if we have put it into an accelerator. So, without proper shielding, we'd fry the crew. Remember, space isn't empty. There's lots of stuff out there to bombard the ship. And we haven't even talked about the civilization that the crew would come back to. How would they fit in? I mean, the world today is a hell of a lot different than the world of my grandparents who would probably be lost with cameras in their cell phones, after they figured out what a cell phone was, an Internet and computers that have wiped out the need for encyclopedias (you can buy a Britannica on CD for 17 bucks), buying stuff on the Internet, direct deposit and so on. In fact, would the society that launched them exist when they came back? (And who would pay their salary and would it accrue at only ship time rates or total time passed?) >>Theoretically time ends once the speed of light is reached since >>photons are timeless as well as massless, but it isn't clear to >>me how this works. If you were able to reach one percent the >>speed of light which is about 6,500,000 mph, how much would time >>slow down? >>>We already >>>create such particles in accelerators and nature does in the >>>case of certain cosmic rays. >>Don't we create the particles through collisions and the >>conversion of mass to energy? How do we know that time is a >>factor? >Accelerator designers and people studying cosmic rays have long >since taken time slowing down at high velocity into account. Two >important point that apparently need repeating. The rocket can >take advantage of cosmic freeloading. We do it for all our >flights to the other solar system planets, to the moon etc. We >don't provide all the energy to the planet or moon's >gravitational field or to the electric andmagnetic fields out >there is deep space. Mother nature does... Secondly, fusion >reactions which indeed convert a wee bit of mass to loads of >energy can produce charged particles having enormous energy and >able to be accelerated with electric and magnetic fields. The >created particles are born with high energy. So it's really not about the energy to drive the ship, but lots of other problems that I'm sure can be solved. The point is that interstellar flight is more complicated than we seem to think and we haven't talked about some of those problems. >>>I don't have any good reason to even suggest that there are >>>other advanced technological civilizations based within the >>>solar system.. which is not to say there may not be alien bases >>>the equivalent of coaling stations in the Atlantic 100 years >>>ago. But the big steam vessels weren't built at those bases. It >>>is also not to say there haven't been past advanced >>>civilizations on Earth or Mars. I am talking in terms of places >>>able to build interstellar vehicles... now or even >>>interplanetary ones. If you have any evidence, put it on the >>>table. >>The only evidence to put "on the table" is the Santilli Autopsy >>footage. As I have written many times, I used to be a member of >>your choir, and a staunch defender of ETH. That was before I >>started studying the Alien Autopsy footage. The realization that >>I was examining a flesh-and-blood creature, and the debris of >>the craft she was piloting, caused a drastic reversal to my >>thinking. It came to me in a flash: "they don't have to be from >>the stars!" As I researched the subject, I became more >>convinced. >>To understand this, you'd have to spend some time viewing the >>footage with the understanding that it was not a fake or fraud >>and depicts a real event. Then we might discuss the problems it >>presents for the ETH. >I can't see any way in which studying the Santilli footage (even >neglecting all Ray's lies) tells us anything about interstellar >travel. I've got to throw in with Stan on this. The Santilli footage, some of which is an admitted hoax, the rest of which doesn't draw a very persuasive picture (and no, I don't want to hear how we haven't taken a close enough look or reviewed the evidence carefully enough for you) really tells us nothing about interstellar flight or the possibility of interstellar flight.