From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 03:39:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA20957; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 03:36:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 03:36:20 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:36:08 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701011136.MAA02362@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Multipolarity Resent-Message-ID: <"NZIWf3.0.M75.omaoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/967 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Richard Austin wrote on 23/12/96: >Light is a 3 polarity system, red green blue. >Ayurveda uses Vata, Pitta, & Kapha >Yoga speaks of Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas as the three ultimate constituents >or building blocks of the universe. > >Richard Austin -- email: richarda@icx.net -- radio: KG7SU >Check out the Institute for Planetary Renewal at >http://user.icx.net/~richarda If you talk about three polarities of light, I suppose it would be better to use red, yellow and blue (green being a mixture of blue and yellow, orange being a mixture of red and yellow), but then of course visible light is only a small part of an almost infinite spectrum of electromagnetic waves, which extend on both sides of the visible spectrum. It seems like our perception of color has developed, picking out a part of the spectrum and leaving the rest unattended. As for multipolarity, it certainly seems that bipolarity is the basic arrangement, not to say that multipolarity might not exist or even be of great importance. In logic, we (the west) have concentrated on bipolarity. Our yes-no, true-false approach is indeed a crude simplification of what logic should be. Much better would be infinity-valued logic, i.e. a gradient scale of ever so small steps towards one or the other (true or false), with the absolute being probably unobtainable. I believe the mind works in this way: You acquire a datum and file it away, giving it a certain probability value (comparing it with other, previously acquired data). Another datum on the same subject comes along, and it either confirms or does not confirm the first one, adding to the positive evaluation of probability or subtracting from it. And so, we keep track of infinite probabilities on a potentially infinite number of subjects we are interested in, arriving at 'pretty sure it's true' or 'pretty sure it's false', but never arriving, if we are serious, at 'totally true' or totally false'. Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 04:02:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA22268; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 03:59:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 03:59:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:56:17 +0100 Message-Id: <199701011156.MAA09207@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de (Wolf-Dietrich Bauer) (by way of harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann)) Subject: Naudin's Bedini-generator efficiency calculation Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"4dWYg2.0.mR5.K6boo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/968 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hallo Jean-Louis Naudin ! I think even your cheap and simple but quite inefficient Bedini generator setup shows overunity efficiency! To explain this I resume first your experimental informations: SETUP: > >You can find this G-field generator plan in Bedini lab's note at : >http://rand.nidlink.com/~john1/motor.html> Coils and magnets: >Two coils made with 450 turns of 0.35 mm wire (0.01 H inductance). Coils >have 2 cm X 2 cm section and are made out of iron rods. >Cores of coils are made with 5 irons rods of 4x35 mm each >to prevent eddy currents. >4 barrium ferrite magnets >Motor: > model Graupner Speed 600 / 8.4V > Nominal voltage : 8.4 V > blocking-current drain : 70 A > Operating voltage range (direct drive ) : 4.8...9.6 V > Operating voltage range (inc.gearbox) : 8.4...16 V > No-Load speed 15500 RPM > Idle-current drain 1.8 A > Current drain at max. efficiency : 11 A > Max efficiency (without gearbox) 75% > >G-FIELD INPUT POWER : > > with NOLOAD : > INPUT = 8.4 V / 2.8 A about 24 watts > > with LOAD ( lamp 12V/5W ) > INPUT = 7.8 V / 3.5 A about 27 watts > >RESULTS : > >G-Field generator turn at 2400 RPM with 24 Watt input ( 8 volts, 3 A DC) >Signal waveforms on scope have the same shape of Bedini's G-Field showed in >picture with frequency of 40 Hz at 2400 RPM. > >AC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : 9.2 Volts RMS output > In VTG mode : 19 Volts RMS output > >AC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8 volts / I = 0.252 A power output about 3.5 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 11.4 volts / I = 0.31 A power output about 2 Watt > >DC mode with NO LOAD > In CUR mode : U = 15 volts > In VTG mode : U = 29.5 volts > >DC mode with LOAD ( 5 watt 12 volt lamp ) > In CUR mode : U = 8.4 volts / I = 0.25 A power output about 2.1 Watt > In VTG mode : U= 7.1 volts / I = 0.22 A power output about 1.56 Watt >From your data we can estimate the mechanical work input: mechanical work input for conversion into electricity = (input with load -input without load) * efficiency =(7.8*3.5 - 8.4*2.8)*75% = 3.78*75% <= 2.8 W Your best power data for electrical work output (AC and VTG mode) are work output= 11.4V * 0.31A = 3.534W (It would be better if you had taken an usual electronic resistors for testing because we have to assume in your RMS-calculation that your lamp works as a linear resistor) Therefrom we can estimate an efficiency of your generator efficiency = mechanical input / electrical output >=3.5/2.8= 125% The greater sign stands because you do not operate the motor at optimum efficiency. Therefrom we conclude that the problem of your setup is that the (overunity-) efficiency of your generator is too low to overcome the internal losses. I did not build a generator - but if you want to improve the efficiency of your generator (at your own risk !!) I recommend you to do the following things: 1) Take Neodymium Boron Magnets (as Bedini) Neodymium magnets have about 4 times more power than Barium ferrites Magnets of 2 cm diameter 1 cm length cost about 30.- DM ( ~ 20 US $) The surface field is about 1.2 T. (firms: Thomson CSF, Vacuumschmelze) The higher the field ampitude the higher the energy output. 2) Make the airgap closer This will rise the flux through the coil and you will get higher voltage spikes. I will you give typical values vesus distance according to (1) for the magnet cited above: gap 2mm - mean field <1.2 T; gap 5 mm - mean field < 0.949T; gap 7mm - mean field <0.484 T; gap 10 mm - mean field < .32T 3) Use appropriate iron materials with transformer laminations For the high fields of these magnets special iron materials which saturate at high fluxes are strongly demanded if you use high field magnets to get high voltages. For example, a suited material I think is PERMAX F by VACUUMSCHMELZE(Hanau) It saturates at 1.5 T and has a quite flat (and low) hysteresis. It is used in puls transformers and chokes. The laminations of this material should be normally 0.1- 0.2 mm ! 4) Fit your load resistor to your generator Remember my Brown-Ecklin article part 2 (http://www.overunity.de/ theory.htm) fig.10. You can read therefrom: the higher the load the higher the energy output and the lower the mechanical input from 20 to 240 Ohm. This means: the efficiency can rise if you go to higher ohmic load. 5) Make friction losses as little as possible. Use a flywheel if you have problems with steady rotation. Use high efficiency motors in their optimum and avoid gearboxes if possible. 6) Make the radius of rotation bigger. This will enhance the velocity of the rotating magnets and therefore the voltage spikes become higher. 7) Make the magnets and iron cores facing each other of equal area. The sense of this is that you get a sharp discontinuity in the derivation of the magnetic resistance of the magnetic circuit at the point of maximum flux. This allows fully to use the energy stored in the coil to give the iron bar a little kick out in the starting phase if it leaves the gap. (The effect is enforced as well if you go to higher load because R/L rises) All these measurement proposed above are restricted mainly by the iron core materials. If the iron material saturates or it is to slow to follow the H- field no further improvement is possible at all. Best regards Dieter Bauer (1) Citation source: Magnetismus Dauermagnete Werkstoffe und Systeme Catalog 1995 by IBS Magnet Kurfuerstenstr.92 D-12105 Berlin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 05:53:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA31541; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 05:51:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 05:51:05 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 08:50:30 -0500 Message-ID: <970101085029_1956510198@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Multipolarity Resent-Message-ID: <"G8vQS3.0.ki7.7lcoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/969 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: When you talk about red, yellow and blue those are colors, or frequencies of light, not polarity. Light can take on many many different polarities depending on what you do to it. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 09:10:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA23180; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:07:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 09:07:33 -0800 Message-ID: <01BBF7DC.89D62840@lkl235109.gte.net> From: Bryan To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:08:26 -0500 Encoding: 22 TEXT, 75 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Resent-Message-ID: <"LrXOA.0.5g5.Jdfoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/970 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I saw a design like this and have one on my PC disk called encyclopedia of free energy basically it involes four magnets magnets mounted on a cam arrangemet and three magnets mounted on springs at set at the proper angles . I think the design required tandy round magnets. I think the Perigrin design made by Bowmen have a better chance of success A design for this is at my web page http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ if this doesn't work try http://ww2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ I have not made these myself hope this has been of help Geoff Ps the name of the above are probably spelt wrong Could you please send me the text of this encyclopedia entry? And where did you find this CD? begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(BX1`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`J $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````1P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&9R965N# $````$````1D%8`!X`'PP!````$@```"LQ("@Y-#$I(#8X-BTT-S0S M`````P`&$'K%9#@#``<0, (``!X`"! !````90```$E305=!1$5324=.3$E+ M151(25-!3D1(059%3TY%3TY-65!#1$E32T-!3$Q%1$5.0UE#3$]0141)04]& M1E)%145.15)'64)!4TE#04Q,64E424Y63TQ%4T9/55)-04=.151334$````` M`@$)$ $```#5!@``T08``' /``!,6D9U:]WC@@,`"@!R8W!G,3(UP4RAU8FH%D'17L$1AZ'1E.C8D-D__40]2'_]3+U0Y,< ]HPXA2Z$ZM@Y0 MFU5O5GY2.8$7`2!(/9'[!) 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M"" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````% 5````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``.TR ` end From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 14:22:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA04339; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 14:19:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 14:19:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970101142003.0093786c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: Epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 14:20:04 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Draining Permanent Magnets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"YUOmx2.0.h31.3Ckoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/971 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Do you speak from experience ? At 02:54 PM 12/30/96 -0500, you wrote: >Any perpetual motion machine that involves permanent magnets will slowly >drain the magnet's usfullness. After a while (I don't know how long) the >magnets would become non-magnetic. >-Adam Grossman > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 15:47:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA18255; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 15:44:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 15:44:15 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:43:32 -0500 Message-ID: <970101184332_1756090452@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Draining Permanent Magnets Resent-Message-ID: <"6fP3t1.0.-S4.CRloo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/972 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Do you speak from experience ? Yes. If you have a very old magnet, it is much weaker than it was when it was new. It's the same thing for the so called perpetual motion machine, except in the the machines case, the magnets are used for MUCH more work so they will be drained much faster. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 18:24:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA07884; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:22:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:22:20 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1990 13:47:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199001012147.NAA10546@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Re : Re: Bedini Motor questions...??? Resent-Message-ID: <"OYkwz3.0.4x1.Qlnoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/973 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: TO ALL WORKING ON BEDINI/KROMERY TYPE MOTORS Please read this very carefully before you hit your delete button. There are a couple of things that should be known concerning these type of motor/generators. First there is a capacitor on the output. The way to calculate what the capacitance of this capacitor is to see how fast your motor is running, with no load. There is an optimum RPM, both for the output of the generator, and also for the pulsing of the batteries. The number of pulses that a battery "LIKES" is from 130 hz to 1000 hz, since a battery has capacitance, resistance and inductance. The battery needs to be pulsed at a certain frequency to achieve the maximum charge, based on its own resonance. Now back to the capacitor. Once how have decided what rpm your motor runs at.[THIS CAN BE VARIED BY USING TWO VOLT CELLS ON THE DRIVE MOTOR]. Choose a capacitor that will achieve resonance at a speed a few hundred rpm slower than the no load speed. Using the LCR formula that can be found in any electronics textbook, choose a capacitor that has a high Q, low leakage design. Just measure the inductance and resistance of the series wound coils then insert the capacitor that matches resonance for a speed that the motor would run at under heavy load. NOW CAN YOU GUESS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PUT A LOAD ON IT AND THE GENERATOR GOES INTO RESONANCE. Of course, when the generator goes into resonance, even though it is under heavy load, all of a sudden the load will become less, because of this resonance, and the drive motor will operate with MUCH less amperage, the output will also go up dramatically. It is very important that the load be resistive, and the resistor must not be the kind that will heat up, as this will knock the generator out of resonance. One other thing I forgot to mention, is that after the tuning capacitor, there is a bridge rectifier. This rectifier is necessary to isolate the tank circuit of the generator, from the battery circuit, since the battery has inductance, resistance and capacity that you do not want to affect the resonance of the generatpr. This explains why the Drag of the motor lessens and the motor operates with less amperage. When perfect resonance is achieved, the Q goes out of sight, some of you mathemiticians tell me what the output of the generators that are not presently obtaining overunity, would be if you have a Q of 1000 The problem with this whole thing is that resonance is very hard to KEEP, the temperature air, surrounding the coils can knock it out as well as many other factors. One way to keep resonance perfect, is to place an electromagnet, that is half a doughnut, near the coils and change the inductance by varying the voltage to the electromagnet, or just use a permanent magnet and vary the distance that it is put from the coils, this is what Lester Hendershot used the magnatron magnet for. Try this for your self. Just take a iron core coil of wire hook it up to a LCR meter and measure the inductance, then place a powerful permanent magnet near it and watch the inductance change. There is also a circuit that allows the output of the generator , without changing the resistance,therby keeping the whole thing in resonance, but this is another story. Once the generator is tuned, it is also possible to tune the drive motor, by placing tuning it in a similar manner that you did the generator, although this is even harder than tuning the generator, since the envelope of resonance is very narrow, and is based on rpm, which changes once the motor is resonant. It is also a simple thing to collect the back EMF of the drive motor, which will further increase efficiency. It is also important to use the most powerful magnets that you can buy, such as neodyneum. Also the little prototypes used a few hundred windings, the Watson converter used many hundreds of windings. Hopefully this will help some of you who are working on this type of motor, its great to see people complete their projects and report their findings. Pleas feel free to forward this to anyone who is working on this type of project. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 18:30:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA09032; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:28:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:28:11 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1990 13:53:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199001012153.NAA10808@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on the New Earth Resonance Device Resent-Message-ID: <"2S_9g.0.uC2.tqnoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/974 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Question: Where did the tape come from.[NEW EARTH RESONANCE DEVICE] > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 1 23:07:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA12874; Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:04:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 23:04:58 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 20:04 NZDT X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: Re: Multipolarity X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"Cnw5e1.0.y83.Nuroo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/975 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:36:08 +0100 (ITA) j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger)wrote: >snip > >In logic, we (the west) have concentrated on bipolarity. Our yes-no, >true-false approach is indeed a crude simplification of what logic should >be. >snip Indeed; and isn't it quite remarkable how this crude Aristotlian concept has influenced western thinking for so long. >snip >Much better would be infinity-valued logic, i.e. a gradient scale of >ever so small steps towards one or the other (true or false), with the >absolute being probably unobtainable. >snip Mmmm ........ yes, and what happened to Fuzzy Logic. Isn't this what Zardeh(?) was saying in the 1980's with his Fuzzy Set theory. It seems that initially, American academics spurned the significance of what he was saying, and it took an Asian mentality to see the real implications, and to then employ this principle in a wide range of industrial and commercial applications - including banking, stock market analysis and forecasting. And of course today, every Japanese school-child understands these basic concepts. It's a pity that the children of my own country are not similarly informed. >snip >I believe the mind works in this way: You acquire a datum and file it away, >giving it a certain probability value (comparing it with other, previously >acquired data). Another datum on the same subject comes along, and it >either confirms or does not confirm the first one, adding to the positive >evaluation of probability or subtracting from it. And so, we keep track of >infinite probabilities on a potentially infinite number of subjects we are >interested in, arriving at 'pretty sure it's true' or 'pretty sure it's >false', but never arriving, if we are serious, at 'totally true' or totally >false'. Or as Fuzzy Logic might indicate, the degree, or degrees of membership to the particular set, or number of sets, that the datum might be assigned to. Isn't this really the way that human beings apply "probabilities" to the process they call "thinking"? And If it's small, and grey, with a short straight tail, two round ears, and scurries rapidly across the floor to disappear through a hole in the skirting, the combined weighted "datum" of membership in my mental fuzzy sets, would indicate a significant probability that it has a high degree of membership to another conceptual set that I call "mouse". Despite the fact that I never really did get a good look at it !! But please don't misunderstand me here. I believe that what you are saying is extremely important, if we are to get a clearer understanding of the universe - particularly with regard to the muddled concepts behind conventional physics and electromagnetic phenomena. Regards, Stuart Rae ============================================================================= 7B Mountain View Road, Blenheim, New Zealand. Ph: +64 3 578 9160 Email: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz ============================================================================= From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 01:44:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA04222; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 01:42:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 01:42:24 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:43:37 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Multipolarity Resent-Message-ID: <"8fixd.0.t11.-Buoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/976 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >On Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:36:08 +0100 (ITA) >j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger)wrote: > >>snip >> >>In logic, we (the west) have concentrated on bipolarity. Our yes-no, >>true-false approach is indeed a crude simplification of what logic should >>be. > snip---- > >>I believe the mind works in this way: You acquire a datum and file it away, >>giving it a certain probability value (comparing it with other, previously >>acquired data). Another datum on the same subject comes along, and it >>either confirms or does not confirm the first one, adding to the positive >>evaluation of probability or subtracting from it. And so, we keep track of >>infinite probabilities on a potentially infinite number of subjects we are >>interested in, arriving at 'pretty sure it's true' or 'pretty sure it's >>false', but never arriving, if we are serious, at 'totally true' or totally >>false'. > >Or as Fuzzy Logic might indicate, the degree, or degrees of membership to >the particular set, or number of sets, that the datum might be assigned to. >Isn't this really the way that human beings apply "probabilities" to the >process they call "thinking"? And If it's small, and grey, with a short >straight tail, two round ears, and scurries rapidly across the floor to >disappear through a hole in the skirting, the combined weighted "datum" of >membership in my mental fuzzy sets, would indicate a significant probability >that it has a high degree of membership to another conceptual set that I >call "mouse". Despite the fact that I never really did get a good look at it !! > >But please don't misunderstand me here. I believe that what you are saying >is extremely important, if we are to get a clearer understanding of the >universe - particularly with regard to the muddled concepts behind >conventional physics and electromagnetic phenomena. > >Regards, >Stuart Rae > >============================================================================= >7B Mountain View Road, >Blenheim, New Zealand. >Ph: +64 3 578 9160 >Email: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz >============================================================================= It also seems in one sense as though the "fuzzy-logic" approach is analogous to Arthur Eddington's epistomological concept of Selective Subjectivism. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 04:42:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA17450; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:39:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:39:55 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:39:35 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701021239.NAA23210@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"EN4mr2.0.XG4.Oowoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/978 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Any perpetual motion machine that involves permanent magnets will slowly >drain the magnet's usfullness. After a while (I don't know how long) the >magnets would become non-magnetic. >-Adam Grossman Are there actual data as to the degrading of permanent magnets under stress, i.e. performing some work? Probably not, because that type of perpetual motion machine has always been considered to be impossible, and I know of no actual application. But if actual test data would exist on the permanency or lack of it of permanent magnets, one could abandon that field altogether, knowing that, for instance, a device, even if constructed, would only work for three weeks. Anyone have data on this? - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 04:42:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA17427; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:39:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 04:39:49 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:39:30 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701021239.NAA23207@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"BcajS3.0.CG4.Jowoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/977 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hi, I've been working on an idea for a perpetual magnetic motor that involves >5 magnets (don't know how powerful they'd need to be), and a light weight >rotor. I've seen similar designs, but few involve detailed specs such as >size, magnet type and so forth. Has anybody worked with this design before? > Haven't worked with this, but was thinking up a similar design some time ago. It might work if you can make the fifth magnet turn to alternately show the N and the S pole to the magnets on the rotor. It should be consuming less energy to turn the 'outside' magnet around it's own axis, than what you can gain from the rotation of the rotor. But of course the proof is in the pudding, as they say. Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 05:37:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA25056; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 05:34:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 05:34:34 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 08:33:47 -0500 Message-ID: <970102083346_1156406661@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de cc: harti@harti.de, vortex-l@eskimo.com, harti@bbtt.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE> Naudin's Bedini-generator efficiency calculation Resent-Message-ID: <"g0mK32.0.N76.dbxoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/979 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: To : Dieter Bauer CC: Stefan Hartmann >From : Jean-Louis Naudin On 01/01/1997 13:22:07, you wrote : << Hallo Jean-Louis Naudin ! I think even your cheap and simple but quite inefficient Bedini generator setup shows overunity efficiency! To explain this I resume first your experimental informations: mechanical work input for conversion into electricity = (input with load -input without load) * efficiency =(7.8*3.5 - 8.4*2.8)*75% = 3.78*75% <= 2.8 W Your best power data for electrical work output (AC and VTG mode) are work output= 11.4V * 0.31A = 3.534W (It would be better if you had taken an usual electronic resistors for testing because we have to assume in your RMS-calculation that your lamp works as a linear resistor) Therefrom we can estimate an efficiency of your generator efficiency = mechanical input / electrical output >=3.5/2.8= 125% The greater sign stands because you do not operate the motor at optimum efficiency. >>..snip ..snip << All these measurement proposed above are restricted mainly by the iron core materials. If the iron material saturates or it is to slow to follow the H- field no further improvement is possible at all. Best regards Dieter Bauer >> ===== HAPPY NEW YEAR 1997 ===== Thanks Dieter, for your very interesting advices about my G-Field generator. I use four (45x20x6 mm) ferrite barium magnets mounted in pairs on two 10 cm arms. The mean gap between coils and magnets is 2 mm. I project to build another device, more optimize and mechanically frictionless. But after reading your excellent document on Brown-Ecklin generator, I project to start in priority to build this kind of generator, because I think that flux gating with static magnets and static coils is more efficiency (mechanical moment reduced). I expect from you some advices about how to construct a powerful generator (if you have a ready made diagram). I have found recently an interesting patent which describe a full static gating flux commutator : The patent is "Electromagnetic Generator" from Villasenor de Rivas (US Pat :4,006,0401), you have a short description below: " The present invention relates to apparatus for generating electrical energy from magnetic energy and, more particularly, to a low cost electromagnetic generator wherein the direction of magnetic flux from a permanent magnet and flowing in a core member is rapidly alternated to generate an alternating current in a winding on the core member. Permanent magnets have long been recognized and used as sources of magnetic flux both separately and in combination with electromagnets as means of intensifying current flow. In such instances, as the frequency of the control signal to the electromagnet has increased, so has the coil inductance of the electromagnet and the effective reluctance of the magnetic flux path to limit the magnitude of the generated current. It is an object of the present invention to provide an electromagnetic generator including a permanent magnet as a flux source wherein the magnitude of the generated current increases as a function of the frequency of the signals applied to control the direction of flux flow from the magnet. Another object of the present invention is to provide a low cost electromagnetic generator including a permanent magnet and a core member in combination wherein the direction of magnetic flux flowing from the magnet in the core member is rapidly alternated by switching means to generate an alternating current in a winding on the core member. A further object of the present invention is to provide an electromagnetic generator including a permanent magnet and two separate magnetic flux circuit paths between the north and south poles of the magnet each including switching means for opening and closing the flux circuits in combination with a core member and means for alternately operating the switching means such that the direction of magnetic flux in the core member is rapidly alternated to generate an alternating current in a winding on the core member. " You can find the full patent with picture at this web address : http://www2.meshnet.or.jp/~smori/netforest/free-energy/rivas/us4006401.html I would like to have your opinion this patent, it is very interesting because it has only static components. Nice to speak with you soon, Sincerely, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 06:55:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA05019; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 06:53:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 06:53:15 -0800 Message-ID: <32CBC9D4.384C@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 07:44:36 -0700 From: Chuck Humphrey Reply-To: next-gen@ix.netcom.com Organization: Nextgeneration Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bruce Perreault's Radiant Device References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5u9RC2.0.FE1.Klyoo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/980 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Thomas Mahanna wrote: > > Has anyone built one of these? It sounds so interesting. Any luck getting > it to work? > > -Tom Yeh! I tried to build the device as described in a book he is selling. and it won't work... Bruce admits that it doesn't work and furthermore no-one has ever made it work. The device he did make works uses a radio-active ingrediant he obtained by scraping radium watch dials.. Hope this help save you a lot of money and time chasing a wild goose.. Chuck *-------------------------------------------------------------* * http://www.unltd.com/next-gen/next-gen.html * * NextGeneration Software Chuck Humphrey * * email:next-gen@ix.netcom.com * *-------------------------------------------------------------* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 11:05:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA13470; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:03:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:03:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:59:53 +0100 Message-Id: <199701021859.TAA01025@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: JNaudin509@aol.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: de Rivas Flux-Switch generator ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"RYTFm2.0.KI3.2Q0po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/981 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>From : Jean-Louis Naudin > >===== HAPPY NEW YEAR 1997 ===== > >Thanks Dieter, for your very interesting advices about my G-Field generator. > >I use four (45x20x6 mm) ferrite barium magnets mounted in pairs on two 10 cm >arms. The mean gap between coils and magnets is 2 mm. I project to build >another device, more optimize and mechanically frictionless. > >But after reading your excellent document on Brown-Ecklin generator, (http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm) > I project to start in priority to build this kind of generator, because I think >that flux gating with static magnets and static coils is more efficiency >(mechanical moment reduced). I expect from you some advices about how to >construct a powerful generator (if you have a ready made diagram). > >I have found recently an interesting patent which describe a full static >gating flux commutator : > >The patent is "Electromagnetic Generator" from Villasenor de Rivas >(US Pat :4,006,0401), you have a short description below: > Well, that is a great idea ! The only thing I wonder about this patent is: Is it really possible to block the main magnetic flux path this way by using these "helper coils" to generate a "90 degree Blocking flux-path" in the core ? Would the magnetic flux not just superimpose each other ? Maybe it could just only work, when the iron core goes into saturation and thus it uses the nonlinearity of the iron core material to block the main-flux from the permanent magnet ? Are there any specialists of magnetic flux calculations out there who can help ? I am thinking to build such a device soon together with Dieter Bauer and we will try to implement different designs, also with mechanical switching of the magnetic flux path. >You can find the full patent with picture at this web address : >http://www2.meshnet.or.jp/~smori/netforest/free-energy/rivas/us4006401.html > Yes, this is a must read URL ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 11:48:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA26391; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:46:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:46:49 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:46:11 -0500 Message-ID: <970102144610_944121990@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"Yn9qm3.0.AS6.d21po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/982 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Where do you think the energy if coming from? Ever heard of the Conservation of Energy? At least in the ZPE devices get there energy from vacuum fluctuations, but not so with the magnetic perpetual motion machine. The energy HAS to come from somewhere!! It comes from the alignment of the electrons in the magnet. When they do work (i.e. create energy) they become unaligned. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 12:59:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA08728; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:57:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:57:30 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:56:59 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701022056.VAA03166@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"K24Jq3.0.F82.u42po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/983 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Where do you think the energy if coming from? Ever heard of the Conservation >of Energy? At least in the ZPE devices get there energy from vacuum >fluctuations, but not so with the magnetic perpetual motion machine. The >energy HAS to come from somewhere!! It comes from the alignment of the >electrons in the magnet. When they do work (i.e. create energy) they become >unaligned. >-Adam Grossman I don't think your point here is quite correct. Magnetic energy is not something that gets imprinted when making the magnet and then runs down. What magnets do, with all probability, is to direct vacuum or zp energy into a certain flux path, by the fact that the spins of particles in the magnetic material are aligned in a certain way. A magnet will continue to fulfill that directing function, as long as the material does not lose coherence Demagnetization occurs either through mechanical shock or through an overwhelming magnetic field that will unhinge the spin alignment. Wear and tear of normal operation is not very fast for magnets. The energy of magnets is not their own, but is actually energy inherent in space background, gated through the magnets into a certain flow pattern. Thus, conservation of energy with regard to magnets would have to take into account the energy reservoir that magnets are using. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 13:20:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA13926; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:19:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:19:14 -0800 Message-ID: <32CBDFFA.1588@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:19:06 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux switching devices. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WpGsT3.0.RP3.GP2po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/984 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stephan Hartman asked: >Would the magnetic flux not just superimpose each other ? No, opposed magnetic flux circuits (from pole to opposit pole) do not superpose in quite the same manner as electronic currents do. If you take a closed magnetic core (ferrite, etc) and wind two coils, one on each end of the core, but with opposite windings, you will find that rather than superpose, the opposed flux from each coil will find a lower magnetic impeadance by jumping the gap between coils. For a rectangular core, it looks something like this: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx L1, left handed wound. x ~ x L2, right handed wound. xxx ~ xxx x x ~ x x L1, L2 conected in series, AC driven. x x L1 ~ x x L2 x x ~ x x ~ xxx ~ xxx ~ - magnetic "arc", outside core. x ~ x ~ xxxxxxxxxxxxxx We might think that the flux from L1 would be canceled by L2, and form a net non-inductor, but this is not the case. In practice we will find that the flux from L1 jumps from the upper arm of the core to the lower arm, while the flux from L2 makes a parallel jump from the lower arm to the upper. The magnetic flux simply refused to remain constrained to the core material when presented with a equal, but opposite flux if we try to sum the flux from complete coils. (macropoles) The result is a magentic "arc" of two flux paths, each bypassing the other coil. This is shown by the vertical columb of "~'s" in the center of core. This is not the case for a bifilar coils, where we sum the flux from each turn of the coil (micropoles, before they sum together to form the net macroscopic field) and do superpose in a similar manner as electronic currents. This is quite easy to verify experimentally, although this is in direct opposition to the claims of several devices out there. Opposing the macroscopic fields of coils or magents does not cause the magnetic flux to superpose. Such superposition must be performed on the magentic fields of each conductor of an electromagnet. Forcing opposed poles of permanent magnets together simply produces a highly distorted field, but does not acheive superposition as many seem to imply in their designs. Grab a core and a spool of wire, and try it yourself. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 13:25:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA14911; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:24:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:24:21 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <199701011136.MAA02362@korovev.stm.it> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 01:21:16 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Multipolarity Lines: 30 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EdIwC3.0.te3.2U2po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/985 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Please, note that in any case for POLARIZATION there is common principle: A + B + C +... = 0 For bipolarity it is A + B = 0, where B = -A Zero is UNPOLARIZED state. Polarization produce objects. Bipolar polarization produce positive-negative electicity and so on. There are other methods to produce multipolarization from a zero state. Sure, white light is not a zero energy level, since sum of all spectrum components (different colours of light spectrum) is not equal to zero. So, any type technology that separate zero energy state into several non-zero energy state processes is in conformity with a main principle above. For example, it is phase separation (chronal type) or well-known polarization of light in a plane (spatial polarization). At first type you'll TAKE POWER from a time part of spacetime. At second type you'll TAKE POWER from a space part of spacetime. It is supposition. If you'll make a zero state from two or many power processes of different polarity you'll ADD POWER into time or into space part of spacetime continium. Many experiments demonstrate it, like bifilar coils by Hooper. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 13:33:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA16863; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:31:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:31:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 22:28:14 +0100 Message-Id: <199701022128.WAA02123@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"lau6Q3.0.z64.ia2po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/986 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, a friend just called me and told me a true story she read in a book from the author: Benjamin Hoff: "the Tao of Pooh" There is told that in 1933 in almost all newspapers around the world was brought the story of a Chinese man just died at the age of 256 years ! He was born in 1677 and died in 1933. He was called: Li Chung Yun and lived in China. He has eaten many unknown herbs, which he had specialized in, cause he lived in the mountains and thus probably found the right herb for extra long living ! Does anybody heard of this true story ? Where can I find more info on this man and his extremly long life ? I tried already some search engines with his name, but did get no result. Can anybody please help ? I know this is a bit off-topic, but maybe to live for 200+ years is also in the interest of this group ??? :) I still want to fly to MARS or to other far away galaxies, which is probably still away about 100 years from now ! :) (just dreamin... ) Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 13:35:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA17388; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:33:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:33:33 -0800 Date: 01 Jan 1997 00:02:00 +0200 From: freenrg_list@sigma.sax.de (Andreas Hecht) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <6O1o8ijeL_B@sigma.sax.de> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on the New Earth Resonance Device X-Mailer: XP v3.02 R/B9504 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: private site in germany; member of Individual Network e.V. Resent-Message-ID: <"T6Un01.0.ZF4.gc2po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/987 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Patrick Bailey wrote about a new f/e device: > I want to find out who the primary contact is on this new "over-unity" > device: > [...] At first a comment to his last lines > Please let me know if you have any solid information on this device or > its > operational physics. Sorry - I haven't heard of this device. But... > The device is composed of circular coils of wire, on one planar frame, with > one coil inside the other, like two concentric rings, and with the addition > a one or more permanent magnets that are inserted into the center (or so?) > of the inner coil ring. > > The device has no internal power source (like batteries, etc.). This description reminds me (although different in construction and output power) of one of Hans Colers devices. Coils, permamenent magnets, no power source needed - all these facts meet the characteristics of the so called 'Magnetstromapparat'. As far as i know nobody has replicated his devices up to now. > It is supposedly tuned to the 7.23 Hz Earth's EM field. Here is a difference to Colers device. The voltage from his apparatus seems to be DC but the only document about the 'Magnetstromapparat' (the B.I.O.S report from 1946) mentioned a frequency of 170 kHz in context with the device but gives unfortunately no further information about the connection nor Colers theories. I'm looking forward for more information on this new device. regards & best wishes for 1997, Andreas Hecht ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ahecht@sigma.sax.de Andreas Hecht Moritzburger Str. 41 +49-(0)3523 63537 voice/fax/(data) D-01640 Coswig ************************************************************************ Visit the _Borderlands of Science_! http://www.sax.de/~stalker/borderland (Sorry - german language only at this time...) ************************************************************************ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 13:41:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA19313; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:40:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 13:40:11 -0800 Message-ID: <32CBE4E0.7D7E@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:40:00 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2Zb943.0.cj4.vi2po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/988 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Josef Hasslberger wrote: >I don't think your point here is quite correct. Magnetic energy is not >something that gets imprinted when making the magnet and then runs >down. Errr, well, yes it is, sort of. At the macroscopic level, the 'energy' is imprinted, and conserved. Note that the strenght of a permanent magnet is directly related to the energy used in it's magnetization. The material from which the magnet is made only effects how well that energy is retained. >What magnets do, with all probability, is to direct vacuum or zp energy >into a certain flux path, by the fact that the spins of particles in >the magnetic material are aligned in a certain way. A magnet will >continue to fulfill that directing function, as long as the material >does not lose coherence Demagnetization occurs either through >mechanical shock or through an overwhelming magnetic field that will >unhinge the spin alignment. Wear and tear of normal operation is not >very fast for magnets. Every subatomic particle is a magnet all it's own. When we create permanent magnets we only align the smaller magnets into a more ordered state. This takes a great deal of energy. If we oppose the permanent magents field with an external fields (back EMF for example, or another magnet) we loose some of that ordering (increase of entropy, right?) and thereby loose energy from the magent. This is why a permanent magnet is heated while it's field is opposed. (True only in a dynamic condition, not steady state!) But this lost energy does not come from the subatomic magnets (particles)themseles, but from the energy used to order them. >The energy of magnets is not their own, but is actually energy inherent >in space background, gated through the magnets into a certain flow >pattern. Thus, conservation of energy with regard to magnets would have >to take into account the energy reservoi r that magnets are using. The energy of the field is from the particles the magnet is made from, not from space alone. The macroscopic order is impressed by expending energy during the manufacture of the magnets. It is only this macroscopic order that is lost when the magnet delivers energy. A permanent magnet rotor will depolarize the magnets by lessening the ordering of the subatomic particles. This is how an AC electromagnet is used to demagnetize tools, etc. The total magnetic energy (from the particles) is still there, but is disordered so it is no longer available on the macroscopic level (external to the magnet itself). In this case, the permanent magnet is quite similar to a battery, it comes with a charge. The energy of this 'charge' is conserved. If the magent does work, we consume this charge. ZPE does not enter into this picture I'm afraid. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 14:00:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA25012 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:00:49 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:00:49 -0800 X-Envelope-From: ekwall2@diac.com Thu Jan 2 14:00:44 1997 Received: from november.diac.com (root@diac.com [207.17.190.2]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA24971; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:00:40 -0800 Received: from november (ekwall2@[207.17.190.73]) by november.diac.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA08396; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:59:06 GMT Old-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:59:05 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! In-Reply-To: <199701022128.WAA02123@atom.bbtt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > a friend just called me and told me a true story she read > in a book from the author: > Benjamin Hoff: "the Tao of Pooh" > 256 years ! > He was born in 1677 and died in 1933. > He has eaten many unknown herbs, which he had specialized > in, cause he lived in the mountains and thus probably found > the right herb for extra long living ! > > Does anybody heard of this true story ? > I know this is a bit off-topic, but maybe to live for 200+ years is also > in the interest of this group ??? :) the 'right herb' probably was/is mineral rich. All of the oldest peoples on earth reside on mountain tops!.. many drink "glacial milk" mountain water run-off as there chief source of water (milky color due to extreme amounts of minerals added).. Ages of 130-155 not uncommon with this peoples.. herbs/ plants though remove this minerals over time and hence will deplete the soil after time. (hence no longer a 'right herb') replant in another furtile area and it is refilled with minerals..) best to move to a mountain top and drink the 'glacial milk' waters. OR as mom always said "TAKE Your Vitamins + 'Minerals'!" We have found Minerals while hard to get and won't 'stay' in the body are probably the key! We also now know you need about 150+ different minerals on a dialy basis. FAR MORE than in anything you can find on the stores shelves in any one product (including multi-vitamin/mineral tablets) Copper and Magnesium are only overshadowed by Calcium(!) Take all the Calcium you can and add 50 years to your life (as well as the ability to have your skeletal structure being able to support and 'walk' you around in that age!) -=Thanks Mom! :) =- -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 14:06:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA26149; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:05:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:05:20 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:04:38 -0500 Message-ID: <970102170437_1591886965@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"J1FZf3.0.UO6.U43po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/989 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >What magnets do, with all probability, is to direct vacuum or zp energy >into a certain flux path... You obviously have NO clue what magnatism is. "to dirct zp energy", What a bunch of bull. >The energy of magnets is not their own, but is actually energy inherent in >space background, gated through the magnets into a certain flow pattern. >Thus, conservation of energy with regard to magnets would have to take into >account the energy reservoir that magnets are using. Again...you have No clue what magnatism is. How would the vacuum fluctualtions act like magnatism? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 14:14:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA29205 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:14:22 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:14:22 -0800 X-Envelope-From: rognerud@best.com Thu Jan 2 14:14:19 1997 Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com (root@proxy1.ba.best.com [206.184.139.12]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA28818; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:13:25 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy1.ba.best.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA23495; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:08:42 -0800 (PST) Old-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:08:42 -0800 (PST) From: Nils Rognerud To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! In-Reply-To: <199701022128.WAA02123@atom.bbtt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: (see comment below.) On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > I still want to fly to MARS or to other far away galaxies, which is probably > still away about 100 years from now ! :) (just dreamin... ) > > Best regards, Stefan. Yes, we will all be able to that when we are reborn in younger bodies. Are you saying you only believe in one life? -Nils From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 15:00:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA09686; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:59:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 14:59:50 -0800 From: MMcCoy@micro.honeywell.com (McCoy, Mark) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (freenrg-l) Message-Id: <1997Jan02.170117.1650.456037@smtpmail.micro.honeywell.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 17:02:20 GMT Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"ujcEK2.0.FN2.at3po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/990 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >You obviously have NO clue what magnatism is. "to dirct zp energy", What a >bunch of bull. I wish that people who are so quick to call someone stupid would learn how to spell. :) Mark McCoy mmccoy@micro.honeywell.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 16:15:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA21552; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:12:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:12:16 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 01:02:52 +0100 Message-Id: <199701030002.BAA03089@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ekwall2@diac.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"THFVx.0.TG5.Sx4po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/991 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >On Thu, 2 Jan 1997, Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> a friend just called me and told me a true story she read >> in a book from the author: >> Benjamin Hoff: "the Tao of Pooh" >> 256 years ! >> He was born in 1677 and died in 1933. >> He has eaten many unknown herbs, which he had specialized >> in, cause he lived in the mountains and thus probably found >> the right herb for extra long living ! >> >> Does anybody heard of this true story ? >> I know this is a bit off-topic, but maybe to live for 200+ years is also >> in the interest of this group ??? :) > >the 'right herb' probably was/is mineral rich. All of the oldest peoples >on earth reside on mountain tops!.. many drink "glacial milk" mountain >water run-off as there chief source of water (milky color due to extreme >amounts of minerals added).. Ages of 130-155 not uncommon with this >peoples.. herbs/ plants though remove this minerals over time and hence >will deplete the soil after time. (hence no longer a 'right herb') >replant in another furtile area and it is refilled with minerals..) best >to move to a mountain top and drink the 'glacial milk' waters. OR as mom >always said "TAKE Your Vitamins + 'Minerals'!" We have found Minerals >while hard to get and won't 'stay' in the body are probably the key! We >also now know you need about 150+ different minerals on a dialy basis. >FAR MORE than in anything you can find on the stores shelves in any one >product (including multi-vitamin/mineral tablets) Copper and Magnesium are >only overshadowed by Calcium(!) Take all the Calcium you can and add 50 >years to your life (as well as the ability to have your skeletal structure >being able to support and 'walk' you around in that age!) > >-=Thanks Mom! :) =- > >-=se=- > > Thanks for the info. So the conclusion is: Eat as many minerals as I can get ? Is this right ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 16:15:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA21903; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:14:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:14:51 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 01:11:34 +0100 Message-Id: <199701030011.BAA03154@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! Cc: rognerud@best.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"m1OVV3.0.yL5.uz4po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/992 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Yes, I have heard this story many times of the years. His herbs were known >and I bought few of them to try out. I discontinued the program after I >learned that the man was a son from a man with the same name. It was >believed that the man was only 125 some years - which is still amazing, but >right in on line of human maximum lifespan. I am sure we all could live >that long if we did not create the stress we get into in modern living. >(smile) > >-Nils Can you please give me any WEB address, where I can find out more about that ? Where did you buy the herbs from and where did you hear about it ? Thanks a lot in advance. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 17:00:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA03838; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:58:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:58:42 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:42:00 +0100 Message-Id: <199701022342.AAA02957@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: epitaxy@LocalAccess.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Lenz law violation ??? Cc: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"xhISu2.0.ox.zc5po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/993 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) >> >> >> I >> I >> I >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >>#5 >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> I >> I >>NNNNSSSS I CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole) >> I >> I (iron plate moving up) >> >> >> >> Hi, I finally found the time to read your proposals and it blew me away ! You are probably right with your ideas ! Very well done ! Have you already tried this setup ? Does the coil really produce a southpole, when the iron plate is moving up ? Is it producing an inductance current inside the coil, because the moving iron plate shields the magnetic flux lines of the permanent magnet ? Otherwise just a moving iron plate would not induce a current inside the coil, right ? ( only a very small part due to the Remanenz magnetism of the iron , right ?) The only thing is how to get the coil very fast "unmagnetic" at the state, when the moving iron plate wants to get off the gap in the middle. Then it would be wise to open the circuit and flash the coil energy via a fluorescent bulb, like in the Newman motor devices ! Very cool idea all in all. I will try something like this and think about more sophisticated setups ! Thanks a lot for this brilliant idea to overcome the Lenz Law ! Regards, Stefan. P.S.: What other replies did you get to this idea ? -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 17:01:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA03919; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:59:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:59:04 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:42:05 +0100 Message-Id: <199701022342.AAA02961@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bshannon@tiac.net From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Flux switching devices. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"867Qx2.0.vy.Ed5po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/994 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Stefan Hartmann asked: > >>Would the magnetic flux not just superimpose each other ? > >No, opposed magnetic flux circuits (from pole to opposit pole) do not >superpose in quite the same manner as electronic currents do. > >If you take a closed magnetic core (ferrite, etc) and wind two coils, >one on each end of the core, but with opposite windings, you will find >that rather than superpose, the opposed flux from each coil will find a >lower magnetic impeadance by jumping the gap between coils. > >For a rectangular core, it looks something like this: > > xxxxxxxxxxxxxx L1, left handed wound. > x ~ x L2, right handed wound. > xxx ~ xxx > x x ~ x x L1, L2 conected in series, AC driven. > x x L1 ~ x x L2 > x x ~ x x ~ > xxx ~ xxx ~ - magnetic "arc", outside core. > x ~ x ~ > xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >We might think that the flux from L1 would be canceled by L2, and form a >net non-inductor, but this is not the case. > >In practice we will find that the flux from L1 jumps from the upper arm >of the core to the lower arm, while the flux from L2 makes a parallel >jump from the lower arm to the upper. > >The magnetic flux simply refused to remain constrained to the core >material when presented with a equal, but opposite flux if we try to sum >the flux from complete coils. (macropoles) The result is a magentic >"arc" of two flux paths, each bypassing the other coil. This is shown >by the vertical columb of "~'s" in the center of core. Hi, thanks a lot for the explanation ! I imagine, how one could use this idea to PULL OUT the magnetic flux lines out of the core ? Well, this way, one could place a coil into the magnetic "arc" and plusate the flux with the right timing out off the core ! Could have interesting applications, not just for free energy devices ! > >This is not the case for a bifilar coils, where we sum the flux from >each turn of the coil (micropoles, before they sum together to form the >net macroscopic field) and do superpose in a similar manner as >electronic currents. > >This is quite easy to verify experimentally, although this is in direct >opposition to the claims of several devices out there. > >Opposing the macroscopic fields of coils or magents does not cause the >magnetic flux to superpose. Such superposition must be performed on the >magentic fields of each conductor of an electromagnet. > >Forcing opposed poles of permanent magnets together simply produces a >highly distorted field, but does not acheive superposition as many seem >to imply in their designs. > >Grab a core and a spool of wire, and try it yourself. When I will have the time I will try it myself... I am just thinking about it how to use it , when one is able to pull out the flux out of the iron core ! Thanks for this good idea ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 17:01:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA03977; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:59:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 16:59:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:42:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199701022342.AAA02959@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: bshannon@tiac.net From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor. Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de Resent-Message-ID: <"AKFQe.0.pz.Pd5po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/995 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Josef Hasslberger wrote: > >>I don't think your point here is quite correct. Magnetic energy is not >>something that gets imprinted when making the magnet and then runs >down. > >Errr, well, yes it is, sort of. At the macroscopic level, the 'energy' >is imprinted, and conserved. > >Note that the strenght of a permanent magnet is directly related to the >energy used in it's magnetization. The material from which the magnet >is made only effects how well that energy is retained. No, that is probably not true ! You just need only a very small energy to make a very strong permanent= magnet. If you ask the production companies of permanent magnets, they tell you that they use a coil with a very short current pulse to align the subatomic particles= =20 in the material and thus the permanent magnet is created ! This short current pulse can be in the millisecond time scale, so the energy needed to magnetize e.g. a Neodymium magnet is very low ! Now compare this needed energy to magnetize the permanent magnets with the energy output of e.g. the Finsrud Perpetual Motion machine has= already put out during all its operation time and you will see, that this output is much higher than the magnetic energy needed to create the permanent magnets used in the Finsrud PM. Also the permanet magnets are not yet run down in this device ! > >>What magnets do, with all probability, is to direct vacuum or zp energy >>into a certain flux path, by the fact that the spins of particles in >the magnetic material are aligned in a certain way. A magnet will >continue to fulfill that directing function, as long as the material >does not lose coherence Demagnetization occurs either through >mechanical shock or through an overwhelming magnetic field that will >unhinge the spin alignment. Wear and tear of normal operation is not >very fast for magnets. > >Every subatomic particle is a magnet all it's own. When we create >permanent magnets we only align the smaller magnets into a more ordered >state. This takes a great deal of energy. Not at all, just a short current pulse inside the right coil ! > >If we oppose the permanent magents field with an external fields (back >EMF for example, or another magnet) we loose some of that ordering >(increase of entropy, right?) and thereby loose energy from the magent. > >This is why a permanent magnet is heated while it's field is opposed. >(True only in a dynamic condition, not steady state!) > >But this lost energy does not come from the subatomic magnets >(particles)themseles, but from the energy used to order them. If you use Neodymium magnets or the new Takahashi magnets, which have a B of 3 tesla at heir surface you can hardly demagnetize them at all, and they will not be run down in 10 years by normal use ! ( I do not mean heating them , but use them in Finrud like PM machines or other permanent magnet motors...) > >>The energy of magnets is not their own, but is actually energy inherent >in space background, gated through the magnets into a certain flow >pattern. Thus, conservation of energy with regard to magnets would have >to take into account the energy reservoir that magnets are using. > >The energy of the field is from the particles the magnet is made from, >not from space alone. The macroscopic order is impressed by expending >energy during the manufacture of the magnets. It is only this >macroscopic order that is lost when the magnet delivers energy. > >A permanent magnet rotor will depolarize the magnets by lessening the >ordering of the subatomic particles. This is how an AC electromagnet is >used to demagnetize tools, etc. The total magnetic energy (from the >particles) is still there, but is disordered so it is no longer >available on the macroscopic level (external to the magnet itself). It depends only on the coerzitive-force and the remanenz of the magnet. If you don=B4t overcome them with opposed fields, the permanet magnet will still hold its power for years ! To demagnetize something you have to apply AC in a coil to drive down and up the hysteresis curve and get the remanenz down to the zero point=20 (0,0 coordinate) of the B versus H diagramm... that is something totally different ! > >In this case, the permanent magnet is quite similar to a battery, it >comes with a charge. The energy of this 'charge' is conserved. > >If the magent does work, we consume this charge. ZPE does not enter >into this picture I'm afraid. I disagree with that....if you just do not oppose enough strong fields into the wrong direction a good permanent magnet will keep its power for years and still can do useful output work as the new Finsrud PM shows ! So the "charge" never runs down and it is powered via converting the background ZPE ! So the permanent magnet is just the "converter" to use the ZPE to do useful work ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 17:33:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA15616; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:31:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 17:31:39 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:32:35 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"zgI2l1.0.up3.v56po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/996 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>You obviously have NO clue what magnatism is. "to dirct zp energy", What a >>bunch of bull. > >I wish that people who are so quick to call someone stupid would learn how >to spell. :) > >Mark McCoy >mmccoy@micro.honeywell.com :-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 18:03:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA01184; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:01:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:01:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:07:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970102195739.32878966@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! Resent-Message-ID: <"KXhx13.0.OI.gX6po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/997 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello yes have heard of story and saw picture of this documented china man, he was said to have shared some of his roots,herbs from his garden/source and depleted his source and died. Otherwise would have livened longer. will try and find more info for ya. Thanks Mike S. At 10:28 PM 1/2/97 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >a friend just called me and told me a true story she read >in a book from the author: >Benjamin Hoff: "the Tao of Pooh" > >There is told that in 1933 in almost all newspapers around the world >was brought the story of a Chinese man just died at the age of >256 years ! >He was born in 1677 and died in 1933. >He was called: > >Li Chung Yun > >and lived in China. >He has eaten many unknown herbs, which he had specialized >in, cause he lived in the mountains and thus probably found >the right herb for extra long living ! > >Does anybody heard of this true story ? > >Where can I find more info on this man and his extremly long >life ? >I tried already some search engines with his name, but did get no >result. Can anybody please help ? > >I know this is a bit off-topic, but maybe to live for 200+ years is also >in the interest of this group ??? :) > >I still want to fly to MARS or to other far away galaxies, which is probably >still away about 100 years from now ! :) (just dreamin... ) > >Best regards, Stefan. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de >Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de >Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de >My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 18:23:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA07077; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:21:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:21:38 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:21:54 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on the New Earth Resonance Device Resent-Message-ID: <"pTt1r1.0.Qk1.lq6po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/998 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Don Kelly Space Energy Association P.O. Box 1136 Clearwater, FL 34617 >Question: Where did the tape come from.[NEW EARTH RESONANCE DEVICE] >> >> >crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES >WESLEY CROSIAR >PO BOX 268 >SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 18:23:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA07143; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:22:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:22:08 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@best.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 18:22:01 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on the New Earth Resonance Device Cc: mathew3@netspace.net.au Resent-Message-ID: <"0SscT2.0.Wl1.Fr6po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/999 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: What does that mean? A 6,000 Hz signal going from zero volts to (say) 80 volts with each cycle looking like a square wave? What duration at max and what duration at zero? (An equal periodic wave, like a sine wave, would be 50%/50%). And - what we need is oscilloscope traces from that device, nout out "thinking about"... Thanks! Where are in in AU? Perth or Brisbane? I was in Brisbane recently... >>The tape calls this Voltage DC, and also says that it is around 5,000 Hz, >>which of course does not make sense. > >It would be closer to 6 kHz pulsed DC. > >Ossie Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 19:26:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA20394; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:24:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:24:38 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:24:26 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970102212736.2aa74d2a@holly.colostate.edu> X-Sender: trex@holly.colostate.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 2 (High) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Thomas Rice Subject: International Symposium on New Energy Resent-Message-ID: <"5k2Ho2.0.Y-4.ql7po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1000 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings, The Academy for New Energy, an organization under IANS, is sponsoring the fourth International Symposium on New Energy, May 23-26, 1997, in Denver, Colorado, USA. Speakers include Dr. Eugen Mallove, Jim Griggs, Guy Obelinsky, Ron Kovac, Glen Rein, PhD, Tom Bearden, Robert Emmerich and Richard Milton. In addition to the lectures, the symposium will include workshops, exhibits, researcher and many new books and materials. Registration and Call for Papers- Contact Acadamy for New Energy, (970) 482-3731, fax. (970) 482-3120. Mailing address, 216 Commerce Dr. #4, Fort Collins, CO, 80524, USA. Customer Service, , new website, (still under construction), . I will be attending for as much of the symposium as possible. I am trying to track down a rumor about the unveiling of the "Keelysphere", but do not have any information as yet. Does anyone have information about it? Sincerely, Thomas A. Rice "One man's magic is another man's technology". Robert A. Heinlein "Love is _the_ most important factor in living, because without love, nothing else is the same." TR From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 19:46:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA23586; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:45:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 19:45:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:46:38 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970102214338.09af8988@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"iddFR2.0.Rm5.H38po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1001 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 01:39 PM 1/2/97 +0100, you wrote: >>Any perpetual motion machine that involves permanent magnets will slowly >>drain the magnet's usfullness. After a while (I don't know how long) the >>magnets would become non-magnetic. >>-Adam Grossman > >Are there actual data as to the degrading of permanent magnets under >stress, i.e. performing some work? > >Probably not, because that type of perpetual motion machine has always been >considered to be impossible, and I know of no actual application. > >But if actual test data would exist on the permanency or lack of it of >permanent magnets, one could abandon that field altogether, knowing that, >for instance, a device, even if constructed, would only work for three >weeks. > >Anyone have data on this? > >- Josef > >Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY > >when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical >views on physics, economy and new energy at >http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger > > YES: Thiese effects are mesurable and even have there own names. HYSTERESIS: The amount the magnetization of a ferrous substance lags the magnetizing force due to friction. This value is mesurble and asked for "as a specification" when pruchasing ferric materials for use in electronics. RELUCTIVE THRESHOLD: The amount of magnetic flux required to impress a or perminent field on or "code" a paticular magnetic material. Magnetic or mechanical stress will reduce the permiability of a magnetic material. The loss of magnetic anergy is almost always disipated as heat. Designers of electric motors using perminant magnets wold be intrested in this value when selecting a magnetic material, or determining the maximum levels at wich to operate. referances from the RADIO SHACK Dictionary of Electrnics 1975 Charles Ford clf@startext.net Fort Worth Texas. USA From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 2 20:55:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA03027; Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:53:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:53:54 -0800 Message-ID: <32CC4A83.6AD8@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 23:53:39 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Permanent Magnets? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZOm_R2.0.2l.V39po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1002 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: >You just need only a very small energy to make a very strong permanent magnet. >If you ask the production companies of permanent magnets, they tell you that >they use a coil with a very short current pulse to align the subatomic particles >in the material and thus the permanent magnet is created ! >This short current pulse can be in the millisecond time scale, so the >energy needed to magnetize e.g. a Neodymium magnet is very low ! Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but is it not the case that the magnetic material must be going through a change in phase for this to be true, so that the alignment of subatomic particles is 'frozen' during the phase change? There is a critical temprature for any given magnetic material for this phase change as I recall. If this is so, then the heat must also be accounted for in the energy cost of producing the magnet. Do you mean to imply that a millisecond pulse at room temprature will produce high residual magnetization? A millisecond pulse of what total power? Only one pulse? If the magentic material can be magnetized in a millisecond, then it can also be demagnetized quickly, yes? I have a number of Barium Ferrite magnet blanks, and while they are fairly easy to magnetize, a one millisecond pulse of moderate power does not induce a strong residual magnetic field at room temprature. It takes some conciderable power to make a good magnet. The case for ZPE playing a role in the magetic field seems to better fit the question of where the magnetic moment of a given subatomic particle comes from. Like the charge of a given electron, this seems to be give for free. Net magnetization of macroscopic objects is quite different. Oh yes, only 'AC' will demagnetize a PM is because the magnet will only do work while the field is changing, not in a static state. A changing, but not alternating field will also do the same if it opposes the magent. This is when we get heat back from the magnets. Work is done, entropy goes up, net magnetization goes down. How do we escape this? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 00:32:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA09918; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:31:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 00:31:02 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1990 19:56:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199001020356.TAA10650@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Re : Re: Bedini Motor questions...??? Resent-Message-ID: <"myQED3.0.sQ2.4FCpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1003 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: TO ALL:I didn't get any negative response from my last email, so here is some more. 1. Each battery has a resonant frequency because a battery has inductance, capacity and resistance. The frequency that a battery "rings" at, probably is this frequency. 2. The frequency that most batteries ring at varies between 120 and 1000 hertz, according to what I understand. 3. Therefore it would make sense to start with the battery, when any device is made that rings the battery, as the Bedini/Kromery, ETC does. 4. There are guidlines for achieving maximum Q, for any given circuit. These can be found in any electronics book. These guidlines will tell you the formula for achieving the IDEAL resistance for high Q. Also should show the best type of core material for a given frequency. Plus the best type of capacitor for the circuit. 5. Once this has been established, wind the six coils on the bedini generator, making sure that each coil has the same number of turns. Wind more than you will need, as you can always take windings off, but you can't add windings, once the coils are completed. 6.Measure the resistance to see if it is a resistance that will give a high Q, for your given circiut. 7. When you are in the ballpark, you can make a simple circuit, using a 555 timer, which will be your signal generator if you can't afford one. Wind a couple of loops on each coil of the energizer and hook the ends to the pulse generator. With the pulse generator on, measure the voltage on the series wound generator and hook up an oscilliscope, using the proper resistor or PROBE, for the voltage that the energizer coils produce. Raise the frequency until you see the energizer go into perfect resonance, you will know when this happens, the voltage will go way up and the spikes will become suddenly narrow, also the ripple will dissapear. 8. Each circuit of this type will have a natural resonant frequency, depending upon the length of wire, the number of turns, diameter of the wire, resistance, and the charactoristics of the core material. Using the above method you can achieve this resonance, without fancy formulas. Using a frequency generator, you can determine this natural frequency. 9, You can play with this until you achieve the resonant frequency of the battery. 10. Place a capacitor, using the LCR formula, in parallel across the load, to tune it even more to this resonance,which will also raise the Q. Use a vacuum capacitor to fine tune it for optimum resonance and add trimmers. 11. Rectify the circuit, to isolate its tank circuit from that of the battery. 12.The resonant frequency that is achieved, is the frequency that you will need to run the generator at. Keep in mind that if you have six poles, you will have six pulses, per revolution. So if you are running your generator at two thousand RPM you will have twelve thousand pulses per minute, which you will have to divide by sixty for your frequency. Which would be 200hz. Keep in mind that for optimum performance you will need to know the frequency that a battery rings at and design your generator for this frequency for maximum performance. 13. I hope that this all makes sense. I have made it as simple as possible. The reason all north poles are best is that the inductance will not change with it set up this way. Think about it. The coils now resonate at their own natural frequency. They are further tuned by the capacitor, which raises the Q of a already resonant circuit. This will give maximum output, which when put into batteries, at their frequency, will give them maximum charge. 14. A high voltage, capacitive discharged motor, would be much more efficient to run the energizer. 15. It's near midnight, I'm tired. Might have made some mistakes. I don't use a spell checker, nor am I going to proof read this, so if you don't like my spelling, or grammer, feel free to correct it. > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 02:53:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA28907; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 02:51:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 02:51:40 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:50:40 +0100 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970103105043.1c677b2a@mail.scotborders.co.uk> X-Sender: geof@mail.scotborders.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Border Barrels Subject: Perpetual Magnet Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"vqz1.0.W37.xIEpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1004 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Many years ago, I tried to build a motor using simple bar magnets. It was unsuccessful, but the reason why may be instructive. Six equally spaced bar magnets were mounted radially on the edge of a disc of hardboard so that their south poles faced outward and their north poles inwards towards the axis, which went through the centre of the hardboard disc. This assembly was then totally screened by placing it inside a mild steel can which was of slightly larger diameter than the cardboard disc and which was then fixed to the cardboard disc. Holes were cut in the steel can at the position of the magnets, but slightly displaced angularly so that radial lines drawn through the magnets from the axis were screened, but radial lines drawn from the axis to one side of the magnets was not screened. The idea was that a bar magnet was placed outside, but near the screen with its south pole towards the rotor axis. The rotor, (the steel can and the assembly inside it), was then set rotating on its axis. As it rotated, one of the holes in the screen would pass in front of the "outside" magnet. The outside magnet and the magnet near the hole on the inside would then "see" each other and repel each other, but because at this instant the magnets were slightly offset, there would be a tangential component to the repulsive force which would give the rotor some rotational impetus. In effect, I was trying to treat the magnets as monopoles and this was my undoing. What happened was that the rotor would spin for half a rotation, then stop. It turned out that magnetic fields from the magnets inside the rotor had combined in such a way as to act as one large magnet with one north and one south pole. So long as the south pole side of the rotor was near the outside magnet, the thing worked. As it rotated so that the north pole came near the outside magnet - it stopped! I concluded after some thought that whatever scheme I cooked up would be undone due to the dipole nature of magnets and also due to back emf's set up in the screen as the rotor moved. I concluded it could not be done - but I watch with interest the efforts of others to make such a thing work. Regards, Geoffrey GEOFFREY KOLBE e-mail geof@borbar.scotborders.co.uk Tel. ..44 (0)13873 76253 Fax. ..44 (0)13873 76214 Border Barrels Ltd. Newcastleton, Roxburghshire, TD9 0SN Scotland. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 06:39:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA28646; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 06:38:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 06:38:18 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:35:05 +0100 Message-Id: <199701031435.PAA00987@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Address from Griggs ? Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"enlWT3.0.U_6.OdHpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1005 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi, there are a few people in Germany, who want to buy a hot water Griggs pump for heating purposes. Can anybody please forward an address to contact the Griggs Hydrosonic pump sales office ? A FAX number also would be very welcome ! Thanks a lot in advance. Regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 07:19:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA04686; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:18:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:18:35 -0800 From: RMCarrell@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:17:55 -0500 Message-ID: <970103101753_1856164495@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"1BFvM3.0.691.9DIpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1006 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-12-30 15:00:15 EST, Adam Grossman wrote: >> Any perpetual motion machine that involves permanent magnets will slowly drain the magnet's usfullness. After a while (I don't know how long) the magnets would become non-magnetic. -Adam Grossman >> To the best of my undersanding, the "magnetic" machines do not extract the energy of magnetization of the magnets themselves, as the energy of a battery is extracted in a flashlight. According to Dr. Aspden the path to extraction of aether energy is through magnetism, in which permanent magnets may play a part. As the magnetic elements are manipulated, the permanent magnets may experience some demagnetizing effects, but this is not the source of the energy. Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 07:24:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA05590; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:22:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:22:48 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 17:33:33 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Permanent Magnets Rotor Energy Lines: 76 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uGBCO2.0.DN1.4HIpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1007 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Josef Hasslberger wrote: >I don't think your point here is quite correct. Magnetic energy is not >something that gets imprinted when making the magnet and then runs out down. Bob Shannon wrote: Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 17:50:46 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Lenz law violation ??? Lines: 19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vlddu3.0.IS1.uHIpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1008 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Lenz Law state: Secondary flux has an direction to compensate the change of primary flux. This Law is true. And there is no needs to violate it. Most generators use superposition of coils to have a deceleration of rotor due to Lenz law, but all we need is other superposition of coils, magnetic shields, magnets and so on, to produce an acceleration of rotor in process of power generation (when the load is connected). I repeat, that there is old scheme: Gramm generator that is "father" of all electromagnetic generators. Superposition of rotor, coils and magnets allow to accelerate rotor when the load is connected. Flux is increasing when the coil is moving to the pole of magnet, and flux is decreasing when the coil is moving out of the pole of magnet. Lenz Law is true working here to accelerate rotor if the load is connected. Somebody can make it in metal? I can not. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 08:53:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA27765; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:51:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:51:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:51:02 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Mahanna To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: RE> Naudin's Bedini-generator efficiency calculation In-Reply-To: <970102083346_1156406661@emout18.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xBWYM2.0.kn6.7aJpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1010 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > mechanical work input for conversion into electricity > = (input with load -input without load) * efficiency > =(7.8*3.5 - 8.4*2.8)*75% = 3.78*75% <= 2.8 W ^^ > Your best power data for electrical work output (AC and VTG mode) are > work output= 11.4V * 0.31A = 3.534W > efficiency = mechanical input / electrical output >=3.5/2.8= 125% ^^^ Is it my imagination or is something odd here? Where do you get the 75% efficiency rating for the power input? And isn't it a coincidence that 75% [3/4] is the reciprocal of 125% [4/3]? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 09:42:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA05358; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:39:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:39:11 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:36:06 +0100 Message-Id: <199701031736.SAA01579@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Permanent Magnet powered motors ! Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"A2gRh1.0.dJ1.-GKpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1011 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >In a message dated 96-12-30 15:00:15 EST, Adam Grossman wrote: > >>> Any perpetual motion machine that involves permanent magnets will slowly > drain the magnet's usfullness. After a while (I don't know how long) the > magnets would become non-magnetic. > -Adam Grossman >> > >To the best of my undersanding, the "magnetic" machines do not extract the >energy of magnetization of the magnets themselves, as the energy of a battery >is extracted in a flashlight. According to Dr. Aspden the path to extraction >of aether energy is through magnetism, in which permanent magnets may play a >part. As the magnetic elements are manipulated, the permanent magnets may >experience some demagnetizing effects, but this is not the source of the >energy. > I agree, that this is the case in most permament magnet powered designs, like the new Finsrud machine. (http://www.overunity.de/finsrud.htm) If you look up the STORED energy of a good permanent magnet, it is just at maximum a few Wattseconds of stored energy in there. When you compare the output of the Finsrud PM over the months it has put out much more energy than the Finsrud magnets had stored in themself and the magnets are still not discharged ! >Mike Carrell Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 09:42:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA05436; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:39:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:39:34 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:36:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199701031736.SAA01575@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: "Alexander V. Frolov" From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: invention of Albert Serogodsky Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"mKftI2.0.dK1.IHKpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1012 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >I see a very well known thing: invention of Albert Serogodsky that was >patented in Germany with Dr. Sheffner is named as a Sheffner's system. > That is right ! It is the thing I mentioned over here already a few times ! The German name is Bernhard Schaeffer and he also lives over here in Berlin, Germany. He has a measurement system, where 2 gas mixtures are working like a heat pump, but without a cold pole. So he is converting low grade heat on a 100 % efficiency process into mechanical work, which violates the "2nd law" of Thermodynamics. Serogodsky was the inventor and Bernhard Schaeffer worked it out in hardware and computer supported measurement setup . They put a lot of money into the measurement system, probably more than 50.000 US$ over the years. He can now prove, that the "2nd law" is invalid in his design with this big setup, but no thermodynamics expert wants to listen to him...Even the university profs tell him, "you might be right" but no one of the university guys has the balls to go public ! Now he lacks the money to build a prototype machine... Do you know Serogodsky personally ? He was 2 years back or so in Berlin and I also met him, when I was at Bernhard Schaeffer=B4s place. The only problem was the communication, cause he could=20 not very well speak english and I unfortunately can not understand Russian language ! :( Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 09:42:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA05515; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:39:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:39:53 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:36:00 +0100 Message-Id: <199701031736.SAA01573@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Alexander V. Frolov" From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Lenz law violation ??? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"8yln93.0.3M1.aHKpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1013 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Lenz Law state: Secondary flux has an direction to compensate the change >of primary flux. This Law is true. And there is no needs to violate it. > >Most generators use superposition of coils to have a deceleration of >rotor due to Lenz law, Yes, that is why I asked to violate it, because until now no design was available to show acceleration ! >but all we need is other superposition of coils, >magnetic shields, magnets and so on, to produce an acceleration of rotor >in process of power generation (when the load is connected). I repeat, that >there is old scheme: Gramm generator that is "father" of all electromagnetic >generators. What is a GRAMM generator ?? Please let me know, I am very interested ! >Superposition of rotor, coils and magnets allow to accelerate >rotor when the load is connected. Flux is increasing when the coil is moving >to the pole of magnet, and flux is decreasing when the coil is moving out of >the pole of magnet. Lenz Law is true working here to accelerate rotor if the >load is connected. > Please let me know more, how it works ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 10:29:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA23268; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:26:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:26:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 18:55:08 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701031755.SAA24310@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Address from Griggs ? Resent-Message-ID: <"k9l0T2.0.Ph5.ZzKpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1014 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stefan said: >Can anybody please forward an address to contact the >Griggs Hydrosonic pump sales office ? > >A FAX number also would be very welcome ! Hydro Dynamics, Inc. Rome, Georgia James Griggs phone 706 234 4111 fax 706 234 0702 Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 11:20:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA03308; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:17:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:17:37 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:11:27 -0800 (PST) From: Nils Rognerud To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! In-Reply-To: <199701030011.BAA03154@atom.bbtt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Xuiwf1.0.bp.GjLpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1015 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: I would have included the information in the past email, but I no longer have the list of herbs. I beleive I found the inormation in a herbal book in a normal public library. The story is well know in the herbal field. Good luck. -Nils On Fri, 3 Jan 1997, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >Yes, I have heard this story many times of the years. His herbs were known > >and I bought few of them to try out. I discontinued the program after I > >learned that the man was a son from a man with the same name. It was > >believed that the man was only 125 some years - which is still amazing, but > >right in on line of human maximum lifespan. I am sure we all could live > >that long if we did not create the stress we get into in modern living. > >(smile) > > > >-Nils > > > > > Can you please give me any WEB address, where I can find out more about that ? > > Where did you buy the herbs from and where did you hear about it ? > > Thanks a lot in advance. > > Regards, Stefan. > > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de > Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de > Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de > My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 11:29:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA06852; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:26:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:26:02 -0800 Message-ID: <32CD14AE.7A1A@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 14:16:15 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: More permanent magnet rotors? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yyNni3.0.zg1.8rLpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1016 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: >Please, be sure that you see the difference between ENERGY and FORCE or >POWER. Power is Work per Time. Energy is a possibility to make a Work. >Strong magnet have possibility to make more Work per one time, if you'll >make the Work periodically, you'll produce some Power per some unit of Time. >I see that Bob made a mistake: magnetization of magnet is a process that >require some Power(but not an Energy). If power is work over time, how can the magnetization process take power, but not the ability to do work? I don't understand this. >And this Power is fixed in a magnet as an Energy of magnet. As you know, all >effect of magnet is ORDER or unidirected orientation of elemental electrical >currents of metal. To produce this situation it is necessary to make a some >Work, to spent some P ower. So energy is used then? >Bob wrote just the same: >But then he made an statement: ><(increase of entropy, right?) and thereby loose energy from the magent. >This is not true for hard ferrites! Magnet is magnetized by pulse only, >weak electromagnetic field can not change metal into magnet. Also, there >is some minimum level of external field that can demagnetize a magnet. Magnetized by pulse only? At what temprature, and what energy of pulse, how many pulses, etc. As I posted, I have a number of ferrite magnet blanks which do not magnetize after a single pulse of moderate energy (>50J). Can you provide any actual data on how much ehergy is used in the magnetization of ferrite magnets? >Bob wrote: ><(particles)themseles, but from the energy used to order them. >It is different for different situations. Let take some example of >theoretical magnetic operation as rotor in generator: some force (water >flow, for example) rotate the rotor and magnets produce alternating >magnetic field in coils of generator. For one change of magnetic flux >(one cycle of work) magnets produce work A1. Let assume, that is is 1% of >work A2 that was necessary to magnetize a magnet. After 1000 cycles of >operation (it is 20 seconds for 50Hz system) magnets produce A3=10 A2 >i.e. 10 times more than it is necessary to produce a new magnets for >rotor. If an engineer made a coils to rise a magnetization of magnets in >process of work, the operation of the system will produce additional >powering of magnets. Sure, given the water flow, you can make more magnets, but this has nothing to do with the energy delivered from the magents. In the case of the water wheel driven generator, the energy used to make more magnets comes from the water flow, not from the magnets in the generator! Try the following: Drive your water wheel generator, and measure the total energy delivered over the useful life of the magnets (which will depolarize) and compare the delivered energy from the generator to the total energy of the water flow driving the generator. Note that less total energy was delivered from the generator than was input from the water flow. We must be careful about where the ehergy comes from, and goes to, expecially in an open system like a water wheel. So where is the extra energy from the magnets gone? >Bob wrote: >In any case, power output from a rotor is more times more that power >that was necessary to magnetize a metal. Sure, if engineer did not made >coils for additional magnetization in process of work, the generator that >use PMagnets would be have a limited time of operation. >Bob! It is main mistake! I disagree, you have not accounted for the fact that you used an external source of power, the water flow itself. This does not provide any evidence that the magnetic field of the permanent magnets delivered more energy than is needed to replace the magnets. It only shows that the magnetic field can be used to transform the mechanical energy of the water flow into electromagnetic energy (with a good deal of loss) which can then be used to make more magnets. What happens when you no longer have the water flow? I think that using an external power source (the water flow) is a major mistake here. Magnetized matter is a "bridge" between macro and micro worlds. By means of >this bridge we'll can take power free of material fuel. Maybe so, but this remains to be proven. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 11:29:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA06897; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:26:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:26:14 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:21:14 -0800 (PST) From: Nils Rognerud To: Stefan Hartmann cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! In-Reply-To: <199701030011.BAA03154@atom.bbtt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XvY37.0.eh1.IrLpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1017 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: The herb (or one of them) was Goto-Kola. YOu may do a search on ALtaVista for "herb" and "256 years" and look at the web pages about this man. You may also read: http://www.newhope.com/public/delicious/D!_backs/Mar_96/hk_fatigue.html Good luck. -Nils On Fri, 3 Jan 1997, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >Yes, I have heard this story many times of the years. His herbs were known > >and I bought few of them to try out. I discontinued the program after I > >learned that the man was a son from a man with the same name. It was > >believed that the man was only 125 some years - which is still amazing, but > >right in on line of human maximum lifespan. I am sure we all could live > >that long if we did not create the stress we get into in modern living. > >(smile) > > > >-Nils > > > > > Can you please give me any WEB address, where I can find out more about that ? > > Where did you buy the herbs from and where did you hear about it ? > > Thanks a lot in advance. > > Regards, Stefan. > > > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de > Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de > Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de > My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 11:51:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA12686; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:49:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:49:20 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:48:41 -0500 Message-ID: <970103144738_1123062896@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor. Resent-Message-ID: <"m6u6e2.0.463.-AMpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1018 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: <> How do you know that?? You never said how much energy it takes to make a magnet (just that you need a short burst) and you never said how much power you can get from the machine! <> No. If there is ANY stress on the magnetic field (Like drag from an iron or magnetic object) is wears down the magnet. <> Where do ZPEs come into this? You have no theory as to why magnets are ZPE in their roots. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 12:03:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA13922; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:59:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:59:32 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:55:36 -0500 Message-ID: <970103145534_1413090404@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnet Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"6m_SR.0.cO3.QKMpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1019 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: <> Yup, I think you're right. That's why there are electric mortors instead of all-magnet motors, you need the electromagnet's magnatism to switch poles over and over again. :) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 12:03:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA14268; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:00:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:00:00 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:58:38 -0500 Message-ID: <970103145838_877182995@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor Resent-Message-ID: <"3Yn5A3.0.hS3.lKMpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1020 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: <> You are right. But the act of getting energy out demagnatizes the magnet because of the stress involved. This has to exactly cancel out the output energy because of the Conservation of Energy (Which has been proven). -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 12:05:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA15771; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:03:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:03:21 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:02:42 -0500 Message-ID: <970103150241_36889956@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magnet powered motors ! Resent-Message-ID: <"j2CZf1.0.Hs3.7OMpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1021 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: All I am saying is that the output power DOES NOT come directly from the magnets! That would go against the Conservation of Energy which has been proven time and time again! Perpetual motion machines CAN NOT WORK! However, the setup MAY, if the observations were correct, help "gather up" vacuum fluctuational energy, but it most surely does not come from the magnets them selves! (This is all asuming ZPE exists, which I'm not so sure of.) -Adma Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 12:40:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA24159; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:37:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:37:45 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:38:56 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Two Classes Resent-Message-ID: <"5kF971.0.Kv5.NuMpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1022 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>I see a very well known thing: invention of Albert Serogodsky that was >>patented in Germany with Dr. Sheffner is named as a Sheffner's system. >> >That is right ! >It is the thing I mentioned over here already a few times ! >The German name is Bernhard Schaeffer and he also lives over here >in Berlin, Germany. > ---snip >He can now prove, that the "2nd law" is invalid in his design >with this big setup, but no thermodynamics expert wants to listen >to him...Even the university profs tell him, "you might be right" >but no one of the university guys has the balls to go public ! > ---snip > >Regards, Stefan. Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de Stefan: In this context there are, all too often, two classes of human beings: Class 1: Pathologically 'sceptic' academicians who endlessly either bicker over whether something can/cannot be done, or who run like scared rabbits at the thought of something which might be truly revolutionary (and therefore "controversial"). They jump on the bandwagon later, when it's 'safe.' They or their chronological clones may even describe what they formerly attacked and ridiculed as "common knowledge." Class 2: Individuals who simply get the innovation accomplished and who are usually ignored, ridiculed, and/or plundered in the process -- usually in this order. If they are real lucky their accomplishments will be applauded by the scientific community ..... after their death. Great system. Does wonders for the incentive of our innovators. Really assists the progress of civilization. If anyone wonders why we are not now traveling among the stars and living life spans of centuries: this is a major reason. >From a short-term pessimist, long-term optimist.... Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 13:04:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA31482; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:00:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:00:26 -0800 Message-ID: <32CD2CFA.2098@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 15:59:54 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Permanent Magent Motors. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sT2Vu3.0.nh7.eDNpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1023 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Adam Grossman wrote: >All I am saying is that the output power DOES NOT come directly from the >magnets! That would go against the Conservation of Energy which has been >proven time and time again! Hold the phone there Mr. Grossman, the second law, and the conservation of energy only apply to a closed system. The goal is to create an open system which might then extract some of the ZPE. This renders the second law arguments invalid. Conservation of energy may rule closed systems, but this is not what people are after here. >Perpetual motion machines CAN NOT WORK! However, Moot point, only true in a closed system, this is an important distinction. >the setup MAY, if the observations were correct, help "gather up" vacuum >fluctuational energy, but it most surely does not come from the magnets them >selves! (This is all asuming ZPE exists, which I'm not so sure of.) ZPE had been implicated in sustaining the magnetic moment of the particles themselves. There are some modern quantum theories along these lines. ZPE clearly manifests itself in the Lamb shift, and other experimentally observed effects. It appears to be very real indeed, based on the evidence. This leaves two questions in my mind: Can we then extract useful energy from the ZPE? (probably so) Should we extract energy from the ZPE? (probably not!) Nothing in nature is ever free, it's there for a reason. This must also include the Zero Point Energy. Why so many blindly assume that it exists for our benifit, without repercussions, is beyond my understanding. This has never proven to be true for ANY technology yet developed. The more advanced the technology, the more complex the repercussions of it's application (i.e. coal dust is easier to deal with than radioactive waste, etc). So, before we begin to search for a method to extract energy on an industrial level from the ZPE, should we not first better understand it's role in nature, and any possible effects of our placing our ever growing energy demands onto a nearly unknown resource? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 13:18:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA02406; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:14:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 13:14:13 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:21:21 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970103151106.3fdfc93a@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! Resent-Message-ID: <"qWrEQ2.0.Rb.ZQNpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1024 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ok, found article on this at site http://www.presentmoment.com/articles/enhance/longevity.html here is brief, Li Ching-Yun died on May 5, 1933 at the age of 256. The New York Times listed a more modest age of 197 and included his advice for longevity. "Keep Quiet Heart, Sit Like a Tortoise, Sleep Like a Dog." The article stated that, "many who had seen him recently declared that his facial appearance was no different from that of a person two centuries his junior." Some documentation exists which tends to support the longevity claims. Wu-Chung-Chien, Dean of the Department of Education in Minkuo University, found records that show that Li was born in 1677. Notices of congratulations were received by the Imperial Chinese Government on his 150th and 200th birthdays. thanks Mike S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 14:18:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA16203 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:18:23 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:18:23 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Fri Jan 3 14:18:20 1997 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA16081 for ; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:17:48 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp4.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.132]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id JAA19980 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:17:10 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32CD8492.624@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:43:38 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flux switching devices Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------31A9598F5B96" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------31A9598F5B96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Shannon wrote: > > Grab a core and a spool of wire, and try it yourself. Hi Bob, Enclosed are Quick Field files to simulate your example. After you download and unzip the program, put the files in the example directory. You can alter the 2 coil strengths by editing the LibData. Like you, I have verified the data in reality. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------31A9598F5B96 Content-Type: image/x-portable-bitmap; name="Toroid.pbm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Toroid.pbm" EP 300P=7F=CE2=01=00=00=00=01=00=02=00=02=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00TORROID.MOD=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00TORROID.DMS=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00M= ATLIB.DMS=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00= =00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00=00 --------------31A9598F5B96 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OAA15948; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:16:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 14:16:32 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:23:37 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970103161322.2b7f393a@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: over unity & perpetual Resent-Message-ID: <"VJVR13.0.5v3.-KOpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1025 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello All, Just some thoughts here. Over unity and perpetual machines are sometimes promoted as one and the same terms. I argue that a device can be said to be thought of as a perpetual device, then when science understands where the unknown energy source orginates from, it then is an overunity. ex. if heat pump is designed super effcient, it could run itself and if we did not understand how it worked,then you could call it a perpetual machine, and then when we understand it gets it heat/energy from the surrounding amosphere/air/water/gound, it is over unity. And the same with cold fusion, if it turns out to be the real thing, it will thought or could be called a perpetual xyz. When we prove it's true energy source, then it is an O.U. less energy in - more out (extra energy source UN-KNOWN) = perpetual machine less energy in - more out (extra energy source KNOWN) = OVER UNITY DEVICE THANKS MIKE S. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 15:49:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA32386; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:45:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:45:16 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 00:41:59 +0100 Message-Id: <199701032341.AAA04248@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Summary: Chinese man lived for 256 years ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"0N5wf1.0.ev7.6ePpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1026 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Actually the max cell-divison problem has been overcome with megadose of >vitamin-E. It has been tested and proven to increase cell-division to >100-125 times with vitamin-E. > >I personally take 10,000 units of vitamin-E per day for 10 years now. My >younger wife is still happy and I feel like I am lamost as good as 25 years >of age (now 43). If there is anything I would value more than anyhting, it >is my daily dose of vitamin-E. Ginko Biloba aslo seem to have the same >effect on me. I hope you are also reading this Stephan? > >Time will tell. > >-Nils > >On 3 Jan 1997, Terry Blanton wrote: > >> Barry Merriman said: >> >> >>There is a recent book (1995 or so) on aging by a doctor >> named Hayflick. He is the fellow who first discovered and >> proved that most cell lines in the human body have a finite >> lifespan, of roughly 50 cell divisions. He's now a famous >> professor of gerontology at UC San Francisco. >> >> Anyway, his book, which is titled something like How and Why We >> Age, has a whole chapter devoted to claims of extreme longevity, >> and he comes to the conclusion that no one in excess of >> age ~120 has even been deomonstrated to exist, despite many >> such claims.<< >> >> Interesting since this corresponds with Genesis where God said His spirit no >> longer dwells in man as he is of the flesh and his years shall be six score >> years (6 x 20 years). Since man allegedly lived much longer in times before >> Noah, one must wonder if this upper limit of life was a result of interbreeding >> with the Nephilim or "those who come down". >> >> Terry >> Secrets of Longevity by Richard A. Peterson, ND An article from the Hawley Herald says the Jeanne Calment of Arles, France, is now 120 years old. Although Dr. Thomas Perls says that, "the chances of you or me getting to be her age are similar to our changes of playing basketball like Michael Jordan," people in some parts of the world regularly live that long. The article states that, "Centenarians are usually people who handle stress well. Diet, exercise and a life style of moderation can help slow down the aging process." Li Ching-Yun died on May 5, 1933 at the age of 256. The New York Times listed a more modest age of 197 and included his advice for longevity. "Keep Quiet Heart, Sit Like a Tortoise, Sleep Like a Dog." The article stated that, "many who had seen him recently declared that his facial appearance was no different from that of a person two centuries his junior." Some documentation exists which tends to support the longevity claims. Wu-Chung-Chien, Dean of the Department of Education in Minkuo University, found records that show that Li was born in 1677. Notices of congratulations were received by the Imperial Chinese Government on his 150th and 200th birthdays. The people of Vilcabamba, Ecuador, are well-known for their longevity. Vilcabamba, also knows as the Sacred Valley, is home to a very large number of centurians. When Dr. Bernard Jensen, noted nutritionist and teacher, visited the area in 1973, he discovered that heart disease did not exist. He met many of the local citizens, many over 120 years old. These people were active and rarely sick, and when illness did occur, they were treated with natural means such as herbs. The citizens of many countries of the world (Third World countries like Ecuador) have longer life expectancies than citizens of the United States. These countries tend to rely on natural means of medication in times of sickness. The people of Vilcabamba tend to lead simple lives and eat an abundance of fruits and vegetables, corn, cereal, eggs, some chicken, but very little red meat. During Dr. Jensen's visit, he became personally acquainted with a man of 140 years of age. According to Dr. Jensen, "This valley is well named 'the Sacred Valley.'" Many doctors have gone down to investigate this community and found that what they expected was true; these people lived a long, healthy and productive life even in old age. During his world tour, Dr. Jensen visited Armenia where he met two elderly women. The younger woman (110 years old) ate a diet of mostly clabbered milk, raw vegetables, fruits and seeds from the squash, melons, sunflowers and sesame. She claimed 127 year old was active, alert and contented. She told Dr. Jensen that she attributed her longevity to "comfrey leaf and garlic, dried, made into a soup." Dr. Jensen also visited parts of Russia, especially the regions of Azerbaijan and Georgia. Azerbaijan has a wealth of centurians. In fact, they have 84 centurians per 100,000 inhabitants. A 1975 Los Angeles Herald Examiner article marking the birthday of one of the Azerbaijan residents stated, "it is not uncommon for residents of the mountains in Azerbaijan and Georgia to reach 100 years." When in Azerbaijan, Jensen met Shirin Gasanov who was 153 years of age. Shirin "was absolutely amazing. He had the skin texture, vitality and carriage of a youthful man." Shirin claimed that he did not trust medical doctors, but rather preferred more natural health-oriented doctors such as herbalists. A doctor who had recently examined Shirin found his health to be "superior to that of a normal, middle-aged person." He rose each day at 6 a.m. and went to work in the fields with the other farmers. Shirin currently ate little meat but stated that he was once a vegetarian. He consumes milk products such as sour cream and sour milk, vegetables and fruits, and grains such as buckwheat. He states, "I believe in fasting...I am used to taking walks for about one kilometer a day...I feel exceptionally well after my walks or any other physical exercise...I have not stiffness in my joints and I am as agile as I have always been all my life...I have never observed any special rules to attain old age. A quiet family life, mountain climate and the happy life of my descendants, that is what accounts for my long life." Shirin's birth certificate is on file in the Office of Notaries and Records of Vital Statistics at the Ministry of Justice, Azerbaijan. It states that he is a native of Azerbaijan and was born on July 1, 1817. Dr. Jensen has met many of the world's oldest people. He thinks that one of the greatest factors in longevity is moderation. Many of the elderly ate very small meals. He noted that some of the elderly drank and smoked, but that those who lived the longest did not use intoxicants, did not smoke, had the least amount of meat in their diets and did not go to extremes in any respect." Dr. Peterson is a Naturopathic Doctor from Minneapolis, MN, who specializes in Herbology, Homeopathy and Nutrition. He may be reached at 612-724-5324. This originally appeared in Present Moment's newsletter, Winter 1995. >> > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 15:58:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA03452; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:55:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 15:55:33 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 00:52:23 +0100 Message-Id: <199701032352.AAA04318@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor. Resent-Message-ID: <"sVwae3.0.lr.nnPpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1027 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: ><with the energy output of e.g. the Finsrud Perpetual Motion machine has >already >put out during all its operation time and you will see, that this >output is much higher than the magnetic energy needed to create the >permanent magnets used in the Finsrud PM. Also the permanet magnets >are not yet run down in this device !>> > >How do you know that?? You never said how much energy it takes to make a >magnet (just that you need a short burst) and you never said how much power >you can get from the machine! A permanent magnet can only store so much energy which the multiplication of BxH . So this is not much, when I remember it correctly, only a few Wattseconds.... To produce the permanent magnet, it depends what material you use ! If you just take iron, it is okay to use a short current pulse in a big coil to give it the remanenz magnetism... Okay, these iron magnets can easy be demagnetized... If you use other material like Neodymium or Berium Ferrit, there the process involves heat and sintering and phase changes during cooling down the material during putting it in a coil with a high B field. This already involves more energy to produce the magnet, but the energy it has stored is also only BxH ! ><via converting the background ZPE ! So the permanent magnet is just the >"converter" to use the ZPE to do useful work !>> > >Where do ZPEs come into this? You have no theory as to why magnets are ZPE in >their roots. I bet the magnetic flux lines which can attract things at a distance are powered by ZPE ! But this is my personal theory ! :) Regards, Stefan. >-Adam Grossman > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 16:55:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA17358; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:52:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:52:49 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 01:49:39 +0100 Message-Id: <199701040049.BAA04557@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Corrected Brown Ecklin diagram ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"tYgmm3.0.2F4.UdQpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1028 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hallo ! Larry Wharton did not agree with my opinion ( see http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm , see Brown Ecklin article part 3) that there exist no conservation law for spins and wrote > So to see conservation of energy for spin you have to look at the proof >of conservation of energy in the standard model and then see that the Dirac >equation used to describe the electron automatically includes the spin. > This result may be applied to systems with any number of electrons and it >should work for ferromagnetic materials. I think it was not correct to present the thermodynamic energy balance as contradiction to usual energy balances of particles having a spin. If physics is not quite abnormal a many-particle system of spins and its energy balance should have a transition into thermodynamics if averaged over many particles. I do not know whether anyone has done such a proof, but there should be no real contradiction between both positions. Therefore I think the line of my argumentation is still correct and useful - especially for engineering purposes. But in the meantime I had some ideas why my model (see Brown Ecklin article part 2) predicts to big values: Greg Watson (gwatson@mail.enternet.au) gave me the tip to compare my calculations with predictions made by field calculation: If you do so you have to recognize that if you make a short circuit of the magnetic flux (putting a soft iron with zero magnetic resistance between the poles of the permanent magnet in my model) you should get a magnetic flux which is infinite contrary to reality. You can repair this inherent contradiction of my model (see figure below) by assuming an inner magnetic resistance of the magnet, and if you add furthermore a magnetic resistor parallel to the magnetic resistor of airgap+rotor which represents the stray fields you even can express the behaviour of the fields approximately in terms of magnetic resistance. (This proposal can be found as well in usual electromechanical engineering textbooks.) Therefrom you can derive again a new corrected differential equation and I am quite sure if you solve it you will get values closer to reality. I will perhaps update my model if I have time and enough energy to do it and if I am ready you will be informed. Best regards Dieter Bauer inner magnetic ________ _______| |________________________ | |________| | | | resistance | | ______ stray ___ ___ | | permanent resistance| | | | resistance | N | magnetic | | | | of rotor + |------| voltage | | | | airgap | S | source |___| |___| |______| | | | | o magnetic | | ~ o voltage of coil |________________________________|________| giving off current Figure: corrected magnetic circuit of the Brown-Ecklin generator -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 17:10:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA21347; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:07:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:07:37 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 20:06:50 -0500 Message-ID: <970103200011_1413275379@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magent Motors. Resent-Message-ID: <"FHk7q3.0.0D5.LrQpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1029 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: <<>> By the fact that you are extracting energy from ZPE means the Conservation of Energy still holds. <<>> Modern Quantum theories? Are you sure? I have never heard this (although I may be wrong.) <<>> Nothing IS free. Any positive ZPE (Or vacuum fluctuations) must get there energy from other points in space, tehrefor creating negative energy that cancels out the ZPE. YOu can use the ZPE as long as you do something with the negative ZPE. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 17:32:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA26672; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:29:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:29:31 -0800 Message-ID: <32CDB19A.1298@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:55:46 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz law violation ??? References: <199701022342.AAA02957@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4L-1X.0.eW6.t9Rpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1030 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > accelerate > rotor when the load is connected. Flux is increasing when the coil is moving > to the pole of magnet, and flux is decreasing when the coil is moving out of > the pole of magnet. Lenz Law is true working here to accelerate rotor if the > load is connected. > Hi Alex, What is new here? Flux normally increases as the coil or flux gate element moves closer to the field pole. The problem is that the flux generated by the coil as output current is drawn will oppose this increasing flux and will increase overall system reluctance and reduce flux, resulting in reduced attraction as output power is drawn. If you can provide more info, I will do a magnetic analysis of the Gramm generator for you. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 17:41:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA28988; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:38:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:38:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32CDB3D0.3193@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:05:12 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Corrected Brown Ecklin diagram ! References: <199701040049.BAA04557@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zdB_A3.0.r47.cIRpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1031 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Greg Watson (gwatson@mail.enternet.au) gave me the tip to compare my > calculations with predictions made by field calculation: If you do so you Hi Stephan, If you update your model, don't forget to add the unbalanced forces acting on the rotating flux gate as the output coil current alters the overall system reluctance and flux. I agree with your earlier comments about modeling, nothing beats reality, but Quick Field comes closer than anything else I have seen and it sure helps in building prototypes and understanding why they don't work as expected/hoped! -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 3 21:12:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA00116; Fri, 3 Jan 1997 21:09:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 21:09:16 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magent Motors. Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 05:09:27 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32d5c564.16952389@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <32CD2CFA.2098@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <32CD2CFA.2098@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QxKXm1.0.b1.tNUpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1032 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 15:59:54 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote: [snip] >This leaves two questions in my mind: > >Can we then extract useful energy from the ZPE? (probably so) > >Should we extract energy from the ZPE? (probably not!) > >Nothing in nature is ever free, it's there for a reason. This must also >include the Zero Point Energy. Why so many blindly assume that it >exists for our benifit, without repercussions, is beyond my >understanding. > >This has never proven to be true for ANY technology yet developed. > >The more advanced the technology, the more complex the repercussions of >it's application (i.e. coal dust is easier to deal with than radioactive >waste, etc). > >So, before we begin to search for a method to extract energy on an >industrial level from the ZPE, should we not first better understand >it's role in nature, and any possible effects of our placing our ever >growing energy demands onto a nearly unknown resource? As theory stands at present, there are two "possible" explanations of the ZPE. 1) The energy that is represented by matter itself. 2) An even far greater sea of energy, upon which the material universe floats, and from which the entire universe was created. Let us for safety sake, assume the lesser of these two. i.e. the energy inherent in all matter according to E=mc^2. It is interesting to note that our own Sun already destroys over a million tons of matter each *second*, just producing the heat and light that it has been producing for billions of years. Assuming 1) is the source of ZPE energy, then the consequence of converting it into useful work, would be a minute reduction in the mass of the matter involved in the device. Thus it would appear that eventually the device would "use up" all it's mass. This of course assumes that there is no transfer of energy/mass between all masses. I.e. it assumes that each mass is a "World unto itself". If we do not make this assumption, then the implication is that all masses exchange energy/mass continually with all other masses. This implies that tapping the ZPE would allow us to tap into the mass of the universe itself. As already pointed out above the Sun already does this on a "small" scale :). And our sun is just one of billions upon billions. In this case, I doubt seriously that humanity would ever succeed in making a noticeable dent in the ZPE. Even if we used it to reorganise galaxies (let alone running our car on it). If 2) is the source of the ZPE, then please note that even the creation of the entire universe didn't make an appreciable dent, so what chance have we got of succeeding in making one? In either case, we are talking about the largest store of energy that exists, or ever will, hence will be least likely to be affected by our tapping into it. The implication here is that it would in fact be the safest possible energy source that we could possibly use, if we could succeed in tapping it. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 4 02:38:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA30876; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 02:34:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 02:34:18 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 05:35:32 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Permanent Magent Motors. Resent-Message-ID: <"rt5W32.0.LY7.e8Zpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1033 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >1) The energy that is represented by matter itself. >2) An even far greater sea of energy, upon which the material universe >floats, and from which the entire universe was created. This is what Joseph Newman has been saying in his fundamental book -- THE ENERGY MACHINE OF JOSEPH NEWMAN -- since it was first published in 1984. Moreover, he proves it indirectly by virtue of the physical technology he has produced. I rather suspect that the "ZPE" will be found to be the equivalent of Joseph Newman's Gyroscopic 'Particle'. And, if this be the case, then assigning an operational and fundamental mechanical motion to the "ZPE" may be a useful means of 'getting a handle on it' -- so-to-speak. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 4 04:30:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA09354; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 04:27:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 04:27:49 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32CDB19A.1298@mail.enternet.com.au> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 14:41:40 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Gramm generator: flux is decreasing when coil is moving to the magnet... Lines: 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pkpUy.0._H2.4papo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1034 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello, Greg There are mistakes in text. For Gramm generator flux is decreasing when the coil is moving to magnet, and flux is increasing when the coil is moving from magnet. I had a hope that someone here would find the mistake if he will make a comparision with scheme for Gramm generator. Sorry... --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 4 04:30:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA09404; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 04:28:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 04:28:30 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <199701031736.SAA01573@atom.bbtt.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 15:12:26 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Gramme's scheme for magnets and coils of generator Lines: 46 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GfpqH.0.rI2.ipapo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1035 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Gramm's generator is old version of electromagnetic generator. Name of author is Gramme Zenob Teofile 1826-1901, Belgian, worked in France. He patented in 1869 electromagnetic generator that have a ring rotor. It is not a fact that all Gramm's generators are working as free torque systems, but they can make it. Principle is: In this position of rotor (point * is axis) flux through coils L1 and L2 is maximum. _____ : _______ ] : L1 [ ] I [ N ] * [ S ] I [ ] : L2 [ ____] : [_______ In this position flux is minimum. ____ ________ ] [ ] L1 L2 [ N ] ---- -*- ---- [ S ] [ ] [ ____] [_______ So, when coils are rotating to the pole of magnet, flux is decreasing, but when the distance between coils and pole of magnet is increasing, flux is increasing also. Lentz law is working to accelerate rotor. I wrote about this idea several times, but there were no people who have possibilities to reproduce machine like old Gramme's generator and to check idea of self-acceleration for rotor when the coils are connected to the load. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 4 06:18:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA18305; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 06:16:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 06:16:25 -0800 From: RMCarrell@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:15:50 -0500 Message-ID: <970104091549_813428300@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Making permanent magnets Resent-Message-ID: <"WzcQa2.0.vT4.tOcpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1036 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Once upon a year at RCA I worked with electroacoustic transducers which used alnico magnets. In the lab there was a setup for charging (magentizing) magnets. The magnet structures were built with un-magnetized magnets, which were then magnetized by slipping a half-turn (or more, if possible) of heavy wire through the structure, which was connected to a massive transformer. Push the button, you get a half-cycle pulse in the kiloamperes through the wire. The magnetic field is intense enough to saturate all the iron, including the magnet material. There were (are) similar devices using capacitor discharge to provide an instantaneous peak magnetic field. Alnico must be magnetized in place to achieve the maximum energy product. The ferrites have higher corecivity, but in building loudspeakers you don't want to handle piles of magnetized ferrite slugs collecting iron dust (and each other), so they, too are magnetized in place. Magnets are demagnetized by exposing them to an external magnetic field sufficient to saturate them, then reversing it, and reversing it again with a lower field, repeating, until all the domains are disordered. This does work on the magnets and will heat them. Changing the reluctance of an external magnetic circuit, as happens in a motor, can have a demagnetizing effect, which is minimal in high corecivity materials like the ferrites. The energy necessary to shift domain walls to favor those oriented in the direction of the magnetizing flux is not great. The compounding of strong magnets is part selection of natively ferromagnetic materials such as Fe, Co, Ni with alloying materials which produce grains strongly aligned in a preferred direction. The energy to rotate domain magnetization is much greater, which is why there is a knee in the BH curve of a permanent magnet material. Aspden's rationale for magnetic tapping of the aether energy is based on a deep understanding of these processes. His own decades-long development of his aether physics was initiated by observations of anomalies in magnetic materials. Mike Carrell From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 4 06:20:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA19575; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 06:17:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 06:17:44 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:17:08 -0500 Message-ID: <970104091706_612981756@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magent Motors. Resent-Message-ID: <"tlr5y3.0.mn4.5Qcpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1037 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: <<>> So, wait, these are the ONLY options? I find that hard to believe. <<>> Why would there be a continual exchange? Am I missing something? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 4 08:25:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA07022; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:22:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:22:51 -0800 Message-ID: <32CE82FC.65F0@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 02:49:08 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gramme's scheme for magnets and coils of generator References: <199701031736.SAA01573@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MlhNg1.0.Yj1.QFepo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1038 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Alex, Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > _____ : _______ > ] : L1 [ > ] I [ > N ] * [ S > ] I [ > ] : L2 [ > ____] : [_______ > At this point the coils will not be producing any voltage as they are moving parallel with the magnets lines of flux. > ____ ________ > ] [ > ] L1 L2 [ > N ] ---- -*- ---- [ S > ] [ > ] [ > ____] [_______ > At this point the coils will be producing max voltage as the coils are moving at right angles to the magnets flux. > So, when coils are rotating to the pole of magnet, flux is decreasing, > but when the distance between coils and pole of magnet is increasing, > flux is increasing also. Lentz law is working to accelerate rotor. Sorry to say, but as the coils move toward the poles they see an increasing flux density and will generate their own field to oppose this increasing flux. This coil flux will attempt to repel the coils from the poles and therefore rotor energy will be required to overcome this opposing force. Remember, the value of the induced coil voltage is dependent on the field density, change in field density, field direction, speed at which the field is cut and the angle of incidence between the field and the conductor. Max voltage is induced when the motion and conductor are at right angles to the field. It is not always so easy to predict what voltages will be generated at what point. Many variables. I have assumed that I am looking into the edges of two flat coils, in the same plane and the dots in the upper drawing are the coils wires extending into and out of the screen. If I have not understood the layout correctly, please let me know. Are the coils wound on a ferromagnetic material? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 4 08:32:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA07768; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:29:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 08:29:48 -0800 Message-ID: <32CE84AA.186D@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 02:56:18 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz law violation ??? References: <199701041120.MAA06606@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jg5DE2.0.Hv1.xLepo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1039 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi Greg, > > can you please calculate with your Magnetic Program > if this would work or not ? > In this moment I do not find any errors and it seems > to violate the Lenz law... > Hi Stephan, I have seen this material before but have not done any real thinking about what is happening. My quick feeling is that the coil's field is increasing as the iron moves closer and that the increased power drawn by the coil is related to the iron's movement. I will look at it further and report. Hope the weather is not too bad in Berlin. Was 38C here today. Christmas at the beach......its different. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 4 10:36:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA28470; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:33:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:33:55 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:29:59 +0100 Message-Id: <199701041829.TAA09338@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Gramme's scheme for magnets and coils of generator Cc: alex@frolov.spb.ru, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"pV9MT3.0.ly6.HAgpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1040 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Hi Alex, > >Alexander V. Frolov wrote: >>=20 >> _____ : _______ >> ] : L1 [ >> ] I [ >> N ] * [ S >> ] I [ >> ] : L2 [ >> ____] : [_______ >>=20 > >At this point the coils will not be producing any voltage as they >are moving parallel with the magnets lines of flux. > >> ____ ________ >> ] [ >> ] L1 L2 [ >> N ] ---- -*- ---- [ S >> ] [ >> ] [ >> ____] [_______ >>=20 > >At this point the coils will be producing max voltage as the coils are >moving at right angles to the magnets flux. > >> So, when coils are rotating to the pole of magnet, flux is decreasing, >> but when the distance between coils and pole of magnet is increasing, >> flux is increasing also. Lentz law is working to accelerate rotor. >=20 >Sorry to say, but as the coils move toward the poles they see an >increasing flux density and will generate their own field to oppose >this increasing flux. This coil flux will attempt to repel the coils >from the poles and therefore rotor energy will be required to overcome >this opposing force. > >Remember, the value of the induced coil voltage is dependent on >the field density, change in field density, field direction, speed at >which the field is cut and the angle of incidence between the field and >the conductor. Max voltage is induced when the motion and conductor >are at right angles to the field. It is not always so easy to predict >what voltages will be generated at what point. Many variables. > > >I have assumed that I am looking into the edges of two flat coils, in >the same plane and the dots in the upper drawing are the coils wires >extending into and out of the screen. If I have not understood the >layout correctly, please let me know. Are the coils wound on a >ferromagnetic material? > Yes, I see it the same way, so if there is no trick with the coil wiring or switching the coil load with a trick or so, I bet it will not accelerate the rotor... Please Alex, let us know, if there is still a trick we don=B4t have recognized... >--=20 >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 4 18:09:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA17740; Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:06:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:06:39 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magent Motors. Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 02:06:53 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32d0f85d.10329116@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <970104091706_612981756@emout09.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <970104091706_612981756@emout09.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"adspD.0.2L4.jompo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1041 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:17:08 -0500, AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: ><<ZPE. >1) The energy that is represented by matter itself. >2) An even far greater sea of energy, upon which the material universe >floats, and from which the entire universe was created.>>> > >So, wait, these are the ONLY options? I find that hard to believe. I deliberately left the two options above fairly vague, so that they might cover a.o. a variety of specific "mechanical" constructions. I am referring primarily to the amount of energy present, not the specific form it takes. > ><<transfer of energy/mass between all masses. I.e. it assumes that each mass >is a "World unto itself". If we do not make this assumption, then the >implication is that all masses exchange energy/mass continually with all >other masses.>>> > >Why would there be a continual exchange? Am I missing something? This was a somewhat circuitous way of saying that there either *is* an exchange, or there *isn't*. I covered both options. > > Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Dec 24 01:21:51 1996 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA06423; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 19:22:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 19:22:30 -0800 Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 19:22:21 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: Stefan Hartmann Subject: Re: Are you chasing crafts ??? :) In-Reply-To: <199612230607.HAA23073@mail.bbtt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-HGzO.0.Ga1.rnqlo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/925 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: On Mon, 23 Dec 1996, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > >- billb (calling LD to seattle from gulf breeze Fla, on 2400b! > > > > Hi Bill, > are you chasing the UFO crafts down there ??? > > On vacation, but actually yes. A local UFO group is said to still stand > watch on shore and occasionally see unexplained lights. And so I've > brought my old binoculars with one side rigged with a photodiode and > audio amp, so I can examine modulation in the 60 - 15000 Hz range. > Street lights buzz loud at 120hz. Car headlamps make a continuous > bell-like gonging as road roughness vibrates their filaments (Even works > on smooth interstate hwy!) Neon signs give 120Hz as well as high freq. > I've always wondered if true craft (if exist) send out complicated > modulations of light. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo..com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 5 10:06:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAB29486; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:03:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 10:03:51 -0800 Message-Id: To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic energy Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 12:03:39 -0600 From: Zachary DeAquila Resent-Message-ID: <"Iz6s3.0.YC7.4q-po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1042 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Lots of discussion here about where the energy that is behind the force that a magnet exerts comes from. I thought up a simple expermient that someone (or many someones!) could try: Get a big pair of 'ring' magnets. Put a dowel through their centers with their poles opposing and mount this dowel on a base to keep it pointed up. The top magnet should 'float', held up by the magnetic field between the two. Now, measure the height of the top magnet once a week to see if/when it starts floating lower and lower. Will it? If so, is one magnet being demagnetized? which one? both? by how much? How much energy is expended holding up the floating magnet? --Zachary From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 5 11:25:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA16675; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:22:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:22:34 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32CE82FC.65F0@mail.enternet.com.au> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 5 Jan 97 21:53:52 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Gramme's scheme for magnets and coils of generator Lines: 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Aa67G2.0.Q44.tz_po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1043 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Mr. Greg Watson, I described coils in a side view, so it is a line. Also, note that point * means a axis from the side view. Best way is to open old physics textbook and to see real Gramme machine drawings. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 5 11:25:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA16777; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:23:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 11:23:05 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <199701041829.TAA09338@atom.bbtt.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 5 Jan 97 22:19:28 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Other scheme of Gramme's generator Lines: 38 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wuXy92.0.-54.N-_po"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1044 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: This is part of the Gramme machine superposition for magnet and rotor. It is view from top of the system. I think that best analogy is water mill wheel. ________ ________ ] [ ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -[ ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -[ ] - - -.-. - - - - - - - - x- - - - - - - - -.- .- - - -[ ] - -.- - - .- - - - - - - -I- - - - - - - -. - - -.- - -[ ] - .- - - - -.- - - - - - -I- - - - - - -. - - - - -.- -[ N pole ] -.- coil- - -.- - - - - - I coil L2 - -. - -coil -- .--[ ] -.- -L1 - - -.============*============. - - L3- - -.--[ S pole ] - .- - - - -. - - - - - - I- - - - - - -.- - - - - .- -[ ] - - . - - .- - - - - - - -I - - - - - - - .- - - - - --[ ] - - - .-.- - - - - - - - -I- - - - - - - - - .-. - - --[ ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - x- - - - - - - - - - - - - --[ ] flux minimum flux maximum flux minimum [ ] position position position [ _______] [_______ Rotor consist here of four coils. Two coil is parallel to the screen of your monitor. Two coils are perpendicular to the screen. Coil L1 is moving to observer, coil L2 is moving from left to right, coil L3 is moving from observer, coil L4 (behind L2) is moving from right to left. I have not say more. Please, if you'll find some more info about Zenob Teofil Gramme inventions, let me know the source. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 5 14:16:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA21542; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:13:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:13:59 -0800 Message-ID: <32CFE148.4CB6@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 17:13:44 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Permanent Magent Motor. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FkrdA.0.UG5.bU2qo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1045 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > As theory stands at present, there are two "possible" explanations of the > ZPE. > 1) The energy that is represented by matter itself. > 2) An even far greater sea of energy, upon which the material universe > floats, and from which the entire universe was created. > > Let us for safety sake, assume the lesser of these two. i.e. the energy > inherent in all matter according to E=mc^2. > > It is interesting to note that our own Sun already destroys over a million > tons of matter each *second*, just producing the heat and light that it has > been producing for billions of years. > Assuming 1) is the source of ZPE energy, then the consequence of converting > it into useful work, would be a minute reduction in the mass of the matter > involved in the device. Thus it would appear that eventually the device > would "use up" all it's mass. This of course assumes that there is no > transfer of energy/mass between all masses. I.e. it assumes that each mass > is a "World unto itself". If we do not make this assumption, then the > implication is that all masses exchange energy/mass continually with all > other masses. This implies that tapping the ZPE would allow us to tap into > the mass of the universe itself. As already pointed out above the Sun > already does this on a "small" scale :). And our sun is just one of > billions upon billions. In this case, I doubt seriously that humanity would > ever succeed in making a noticeable dent in the ZPE. Even if we used it to > reorganise galaxies (let alone running our car on it). Agreed, but is it reasonable to assume that the only impact of tapping this energy is making a 'dent' in it? This suggests that only depleation is a concern, which is already not the case for nuclear power. My point is this: Electromagnetic technology, once assumed generally 'safe', has been implicated in increased rates of some cancers, etc. While the specifics of the dose/response relationship are currently unclear, there is good cause for concern. Some researchers claim that the linkage, and the reason that the same dose often has widely differing effect in seperate trials is partly a function of scalar electromagnetics, which is a form of directly patterning the ZPE flux. Yet wilder theories suggest that the fluxuations of the ZPE form the framework by which our individual perceptions, and the quantum mechanical effects of perception interfear, and form reality as we understand it at the macroscopic level. Now such theories fall somewhere inbetween being highly speculative, and pure bunk, which puts them right into the same catagory as 'free' energy. This being the case, 'dents' in the ZPE might take totally unknown forms. Not knowing the nature of the ZPE first, we simply cannot make an objective statement about the implications of tapping it at any level. > If 2) is the source of the ZPE, then please note that even the creation of > the entire universe didn't make an appreciable dent, so what chance have we > got of succeeding in making one? If we learn from history, fairly high. Have we ever failed, scince the invention of, lets say, farming, to make a dent which effects us? If the creation of the universe did not make a 'dent', just what is a good dent in your opinion? Univeral heat death in our lifetimes? What might happen if the 'tap' experianced positive feedback? Of course, we might trust our engineers to create a perfect machine, for once. > In either case, we are talking about the largest store of energy that > exists, or ever will, hence will be least likely to be affected by our > tapping into it. The implication here is that it would in fact be the > safest possible energy source that we could possibly use, if we could > succeed in tapping it. We can tap it, but every time we reach for an ever larger store of energy, we have found that the repercusions are in direct proportion to our desires. Some beleifs suggest that this is a fundemental law of nature. At least, it's food for thought. Please do not assume I'm a tree hugging environmentalist here, I'm as pro-technology as you can get. I'm only pointing to that person who first reccomended that we look before we leap. It seems reasonable advice, and more so as the stakes rise. How much higher could they be? (Bzzzzzt, flash-poof, BOOM!) (And people wonder why some stars seem older then the Universe, Ha!) ;-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 5 15:07:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA30025; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:03:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:03:20 -0800 Message-ID: <32CFECD7.A55@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 18:03:03 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jXS581.0._K7.sC3qo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1046 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Zachary wrote: >Get a big pair of 'ring' magnets. Put a dowel through their centers >with their poles opposing and mount this dowel on a base to keep it >pointed up. The top magnet should 'float', held up by the magnetic >field between the two. Now, measure the heigh t of the top magnet once >a week to see if/when it starts floating lower and lower. Will it? Get ready for this, as far as I understand this the answer is, No. >If so, is one magnet being demagnetized? which one? both? by how >much? How much energy is expended holding up the floating magnet? Ok, a) no. b) neither. c), Nope, not both. d) By exactly zero. e) None at all. Hard to beleive eh? If the magnet is motionless, then there is no work being done. The force of gravity, is exactly countered by the force of the magnetic field, and once the magnet falls to the point where these forces become equal, we no longer have any potnetial differance available to do work. Force is not energy. This is an important differance. Now in reality, there will be some viberations of the magnet and shaft due to siesmic and acoustic viberations, and thermal noise and such, and this will produce very small relative motions between coils (as they are poorly mechanically coupled while one is levitating) and work will be done at a really slow rate. A coil between magnets can be used to measure this work by magnetic induction. Wiggel the magnets, and a current is produced. Allow the magent to come to rest, and no current is produced save that near to nothing from small viberations, etc. Cool eh? You can just sit there, exactly the way a rock simply will not, without doing and work at all. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 5 15:36:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA02077; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:34:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:34:10 -0800 Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:34:01 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: hoax viruses Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5V0At.0.KW.mf3qo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1047 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Here's a warning which should innoculate freenrg-L users against the mind- viruses called "hoaxes" and "urban legends." .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page __________________________________________________________ The U.S. Department of Energy Computer Incident Advisory Capability ___ __ __ _ ___ / | /_\ / \___ __|__ / \ \___ __________________________________________________________ INFORMATION BULLETIN Internet Hoaxes: PKZ300, Irina, Good Times, Deeyenda, Ghost November 20, 1996 15:00 GMT Number H-05 ______________________________________________________________________________ PROBLEM: This bulletin addresses the following hoaxes and erroneous warnings: PKZ300 Warning, Irina, Good Times, Deeyenda, and Ghost.exe PLATFORM: All, via e-mail DAMAGE: Time lost reading and responding to the messages SOLUTION: Pass unvalidated warnings only to your computer security department or incident response team. See below on how to recognize validated and unvalidated warnings and hoaxes. ______________________________________________________________________________ VULNERABILITY New hoaxes and warnings have appeared on the Internet and old ASSESSMENT: hoaxes are still being cirulated. ______________________________________________________________________________ Introduction ============ The Internet is constantly being flooded with information about computer viruses and Trojans. However, interspersed among real virus notices are computer virus hoaxes. While these hoaxes do not infect systems, they are still time consuming and costly to handle. At CIAC, we find that we are spending much more time de-bunking hoaxes than handling real virus incidents. This advisory addresses the most recent warnings that have appeared on the Internet and are being circulated throughout world today. We will also address the history behind virus hoaxes, how to identify a hoax, and what to do if you think a message is or is not a hoax. Users are requested to please not spread unconfirmed warnings about viruses and Trojans. If you receive an unvalidated warning, don't pass it to all your friends, pass it to your computer security manager to validate first. Validated warnings from the incident response teams and antivirus vendors have valid return addresses and are usually PGP signed with the organization's key. PKZ300 Warning ============== The PKZ300 Trojan is a real Trojan program, but the initial warning about it was released over a year ago. For information pertaining to PKZ300 Trojan reference CIAC Notes issue 95-10, that was released in June of 1995. http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/notes/Notes10.shtml The warning itself, on the other hand, is gaining urban legend status. There has been an extremely limited number of sightings of this Trojan and those appeared over a year ago. Even though the Trojan warning is real, the repeated circulation of the warning is a nuisance. Individuals who need the current release of PKZIP should visit the PKWARE web page at http://www.pkware.com. CIAC recommends that you DO NOT recirculate the warning about this particular Trojan. Irina Virus Hoax ================ The "Irina" virus warnings are a hoax. The former head of an electronic publishing company circulated the warning to create publicity for a new interactive book by the same name. The publishing company has apologized for the publicity stunt that backfired and panicked Internet users worldwide. The original warning claimed to be from a Professor Edward Pridedaux of the College of Slavic Studies in London; there is no such person or college. However, London's School of Slavonic and East European Studies has been inundated with calls. This poorly thought-out publicity stunt was highly irresponsible. For more information pertaining to this hoax, reference the UK Daily Telegraph at http://www.telegraph.co.uk. Good Times Virus Hoax ===================== The "Good Times" virus warnings are a hoax. There is no virus by that name in existence today. These warnings have been circulating the Internet for years. The user community must become aware that it is unlikely that a virus can be constructed to behave in the manner ascribed in the "Good Times" virus warning. For more information related to this urban legend, reference CIAC Notes 95-09. http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/notes/Notes09.shtml Deeyenda Virus Hoax =================== The "Deeyenda" virus warnings are a hoax. CIAC has received inqueries regarding the validity of the Deeyenda virus. The warnings are very similar to those for Good Times, stating that the FCC issued a warning about it, and that it is self activating and can destroy the contents of a machine just by being downloaded. Users should note that the FCC does not and will not issue virus or Trojan warnings. It is not their job to do so. As of this date, there are no known viruses with the name Deeyenda in existence. For a virus to spread, it must be executed. Reading a mail message does not execute the mail message. Trojans and viruses have been found as executable attachments to mail messages, but they must be extracted and executed to do any harm. CIAC still affirms that reading E-mail, using typical mail agents, can not activate malicious code delivered in or with the message. Ghost.exe Warning ================= The Ghost.exe program was originally distributed as a free screen saver containing some advertising information for the author's company (Access Softek). The program opens a window that shows a Halloween background with ghosts flying around the screen. On any Friday the 13th, the program window title changes and the ghosts fly off the window and around the screen. Someone apparently got worried and sent a message indicating that this might be a Trojan. The warning grew until the it said that Ghost.exe was a Trojan that would destroy your hard drive and the developers got a lot of nasty phone calls (their names and phone numbers were in the About box of the program.) A simple phone call to the number listed in the program would have stopped this warning from being sent out. The original ghost.exe program is just cute; it does not do anything damaging. Note that this does not mean that ghost could not be infected with a virus that does do damage, so the normal antivirus procedure of scanning it before running it should be followed. History of Virus Hoaxes ======================= Since 1988, computer virus hoaxes have been circulating the Internet. In October of that year, according to Ferbrache ("A pathology of Computer Viruses" Springer, London, 1992) one of the first virus hoaxes was the 2400 baud modem virus: SUBJ: Really Nasty Virus AREA: GENERAL (1) I've just discovered probably the world's worst computer virus yet. I had just finished a late night session of BBS'ing and file treading when I exited Telix 3 and attempted to run pkxarc to unarc the software I had downloaded. Next thing I knew my hard disk was seeking all over and it was apparently writing random sectors. Thank god for strong coffee and a recent backup. Everything was back to normal, so I called the BBS again and downloaded a file. When I went to use ddir to list the directory, my hard disk was getting trashed again. I tried Procomm Plus TD and also PC Talk 3. Same results every time. Something was up so I hooked up to my test equipment and different modems (I do research and development for a local computer telecommunications company and have an in-house lab at my disposal). After another hour of corrupted hard drives I found what I think is the world's worst computer virus yet. The virus distributes itself on the modem sub- carrier present in all 2400 baud and up modems. The sub-carrier is used for ROM and register debugging purposes only, and otherwise serves no othr (sp) purpose. The virus sets a bit pattern in one of the internal modem registers, but it seemed to screw up the other registers on my USR. A modem that has been "infected" with this virus will then transmit the virus to other modems that use a subcarrier (I suppose those who use 300 and 1200 baud modems should be immune). The virus then attaches itself to all binary incoming data and infects the host computer's hard disk. The only way to get rid of this virus is to completely reset all the modem registers by hand, but I haven't found a way to vaccinate a modem against the virus, but there is the possibility of building a subcarrier filter. I am calling on a 1200 baud modem to enter this message, and have advised the sysops of the two other boards (names withheld). I don't know how this virus originated, but I'm sure it is the work of someone in the computer telecommunications field such as myself. Probably the best thing to do now is to stick to 1200 baud until we figure this thing out. Mike RoChenle This bogus virus description spawned a humorous alert by Robert Morris III : Date: 11-31-88 (24:60) Number: 32769 To: ALL Refer#: NONE From: ROBERT MORRIS III Read: (N/A) Subj: VIRUS ALERT Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Warning: There's a new virus on the loose that's worse than anything I've seen before! It gets in through the power line, riding on the powerline 60 Hz subcarrier. It works by changing the serial port pinouts, and by reversing the direction one's disks spin. Over 300,000 systems have been hit by it here in Murphy, West Dakota alone! And that's just in the last 12 minutes. It attacks DOS, Unix, TOPS-20, Apple-II, VMS, MVS, Multics, Mac, RSX-11, ITS, TRS-80, and VHS systems. To prevent the spresd of the worm: 1) Don't use the powerline. 2) Don't use batteries either, since there are rumors that this virus has invaded most major battery plants and is infecting the positive poles of the batteries. (You might try hooking up just the negative pole.) 3) Don't upload or download files. 4) Don't store files on floppy disks or hard disks. 5) Don't read messages. Not even this one! 6) Don't use serial ports, modems, or phone lines. 7) Don't use keyboards, screens, or printers. 8) Don't use switches, CPUs, memories, microprocessors, or mainframes. 9) Don't use electric lights, electric or gas heat or airconditioning, running water, writing, fire, clothing or the wheel. I'm sure if we are all careful to follow these 9 easy steps, this virus can be eradicated, and the precious electronic flui9ds of our computers can be kept pure. ---RTM III Since that time virus hoaxes have flooded the Internet.With thousands of viruses worldwide, virus paranoia in the community has risen to an extremely high level. It is this paranoia that fuels virus hoaxes. A good example of this behavior is the "Good Times" virus hoax which started in 1994 and is still circulating the Internet today. Instead of spreading from one computer to another by itself, Good Times relies on people to pass it along. How to Identify a Hoax ====================== There are several methods to identify virus hoaxes, but first consider what makes a successful hoax on the Internet. There are two known factors that make a successful virus hoax, they are: (1) technical sounding language, and (2) credibility by association. If the warning uses the proper technical jargon, most individuals, including technologically savy individuals, tend to believe the warning is real. For example, the Good Times hoax says that "...if the program is not stopped, the computer's processor will be placed in an nth-complexity infinite binary loop which can severely damage the processor...". The first time you read this, it sounds like it might be something real. With a little research, you find that there is no such thing as an nth-complexity infinite binary loop and that processors are designed to run loops for weeks at a time without damage. When we say credibility by association we are referring to whom sent the warning. If the janitor at a large technological organization sends a warning to someone outside of that organization, people on the outside tend to believe the warning because the company should know about those things. Even though the person sending the warning may not have a clue what he is talking about, the prestigue of the company backs the warning, making it appear real. If a manager at the company sends the warning, the message is doubly backed by the company's and the manager's reputations. Individuals should also be especially alert if the warning urges you to pass it on to your friends. This should raise a red flag that the warning may be a hoax. Another flag to watch for is when the warning indicates that it is a Federal Communication Commission (FCC) warning. According to the FCC, they have not and never will disseminate warnings on viruses. It is not part of their job. CIAC recommends that you DO NOT circulate virus warnings without first checking with an authoritative source. Authoritative sources are your computer system security administrator or a computer incident advisory team. Real warnings about viruses and other network problems are issued by different response teams (CIAC, CERT, ASSIST, NASIRC, etc.) and are digitally signed by the sending team using PGP. If you download a warning from a teams web site or validate the PGP signature, you can usually be assured that the warning is real. Warnings without the name of the person sending the original notice, or warnings with names, addresses and phone numbers that do not actually exist are probably hoaxes. What to Do When You Receive a Warning ===================================== Upon receiving a warning, you should examine its PGP signature to see that it is from a real response team or antivirus organization. To do so, you will need a copy of the PGP software and the public signature of the team that sent the message. The CIAC signature is available from the CIAC web server at: http://ciac.llnl.gov If there is no PGP signature, see if the warning includes the name of the person submitting the original warning. Contact that person to see if he/she really wrote the warning and if he/she really touched the virus. If he/she is passing on a rumor or if the address of the person does not exist or if there is any questions about theauthenticity or the warning, do not circulate it to others. Instead, send the warning to your computer security manager or incident response team and let them validate it. When in doubt, do not send it out to the world. Your computer security managers and the incident response teams teams have experts who try to stay current on viruses and their warnings. In addition, most anti-virus companies have a web page containing information about most known viruses and hoaxes. You can also call or check the web site of the company that produces the product that is supposed to contain the virus. Checking the PKWARE site for the current releases of PKZip would stop the circulation of the warning about PKZ300 since there is no released version 3 of PKZip. Another useful web site is the "Computer Virus Myths home page" (http://www.kumite.com/myths/) which contains descriptions of several known hoaxes. In most cases, common sense would eliminate Internet hoaxes. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- CIAC, the Computer Incident Advisory Capability, is the computer security incident response team for the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) and the emergency backup response team for the National Institutes of Health (NIH). CIAC is located at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in Livermore, California. CIAC is also a founding member of FIRST, the Forum of Incident Response and Security Teams, a global organization established to foster cooperation and coordination among computer security teams worldwide. CIAC services are available to DOE, DOE contractors, and the NIH. CIAC can be contacted at: Voice: +1 510-422-8193 FAX: +1 510-423-8002 STU-III: +1 510-423-2604 E-mail: ciac@llnl.gov For emergencies and off-hour assistance, DOE, DOE contractor sites, and the NIH may contact CIAC 24-hours a day. During off hours (5PM - 8AM PST), call the CIAC voice number 510-422-8193 and leave a message, or call 800-759-7243 (800-SKY-PAGE) to send a Sky Page. CIAC has two Sky Page PIN numbers, the primary PIN number, 8550070, is for the CIAC duty person, and the secondary PIN number, 8550074 is for the CIAC Project Leader. Previous CIAC notices, anti-virus software, and other information are available from the CIAC Computer Security Archive. World Wide Web: http://ciac.llnl.gov/ Anonymous FTP: ciac.llnl.gov (128.115.19.53) Modem access: +1 (510) 423-4753 (28.8K baud) +1 (510) 423-3331 (28.8K baud) CIAC has several self-subscribing mailing lists for electronic publications: 1. CIAC-BULLETIN for Advisories, highest priority - time critical information and Bulletins, important computer security information; 2. CIAC-NOTES for Notes, a collection of computer security articles; 3. SPI-ANNOUNCE for official news about Security Profile Inspector (SPI) software updates, new features, distribution and availability; 4. SPI-NOTES, for discussion of problems and solutions regarding the use of SPI products. Our mailing lists are managed by a public domain software package called ListProcessor, which ignores E-mail header subject lines. To subscribe (add yourself) to one of our mailing lists, send the following request as the E-mail message body, substituting CIAC-BULLETIN, CIAC-NOTES, SPI-ANNOUNCE or SPI-NOTES for list-name and valid information for LastName FirstName and PhoneNumber when sending E-mail to ciac-listproc@llnl.gov: subscribe list-name LastName, FirstName PhoneNumber e.g., subscribe ciac-notes OHara, Scarlett W. 404-555-1212 x36 You will receive an acknowledgment containing address, initial PIN, and information on how to change either of them, cancel your subscription, or get help. PLEASE NOTE: Many users outside of the DOE, ESnet, and NIH computing communities receive CIAC bulletins. If you are not part of these communities, please contact your agency's response team to report incidents. Your agency's team will coordinate with CIAC. The Forum of Incident Response and Security Teams (FIRST) is a world-wide organization. A list of FIRST member organizations and their constituencies can be obtained by sending email to docserver@first.org with an empty subject line and a message body containing the line: send first-contacts. This document was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency of the United States Government. Neither the United States Government nor the University of California nor any of their employees, makes any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe privately owned rights. Reference herein to any specific commercial products, process, or service by trade name, trademark, manufacturer, or otherwise, does not necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation or favoring by the United States Government or the University of California. The views and opinions of authors expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect those of the United States Government or the University of California, and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes. LAST 10 CIAC BULLETINS ISSUED (Previous bulletins available from CIAC) G-43: Vulnerabilities in Sendmail G-44: SCO Unix Vulnerability G-45: Vulnerability in HP VUE G-46: Vulnerabilities in Transarc DCE and DFS G-47: Unix FLEXlm Vulnerabilities G-48: TCP SYN Flooding and IP Spoofing Attacks H-01: Vulnerabilities in bash H-02: SUN's TCP SYN Flooding Solutions H-03: HP-UX_suid_Vulnerabilities H-04: HP-UX Ping Vulnerability RECENT CIAC NOTES ISSUED (Previous Notes available from CIAC) Notes 07 - 3/29/95 A comprehensive review of SATAN Notes 08 - 4/4/95 A Courtney update Notes 09 - 4/24/95 More on the "Good Times" virus urban legend Notes 10 - 6/16/95 PKZ300B Trojan, Logdaemon/FreeBSD, vulnerability in S/Key, EBOLA Virus Hoax, and Caibua Virus Notes 11 - 7/31/95 Virus Update, Hats Off to Administrators, America On-Line Virus Scare, SPI 3.2.2 Released, The Die_Hard Virus Notes 12 - 9/12/95 Securely configuring Public Telnet Services, X Windows, beta release of Merlin, Microsoft Word Macro Viruses, Allegations of Inappropriate Data Collection in Win95 Notes 96-01 - 3/18/96 Java and JavaScript Vulnerabilities, FIRST Conference Announcement, Security and Web Search Engines, Microsoft Word Macro Virus Update -b Bob Antia antia@leftbank.com The Left Bank Operation, Inc. http://www.leftbank.com TCP/IP Internetworking LAN/WAN/NT/UNIX Admin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To unsubscribe from this list, send a letter to: Majordomo@ai.mit.edu In the body of the message, write: unsubscribe dcsb Or, to subscribe, write: subscribe dcsb If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB@ai.mit.edu From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 5 15:39:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA02523; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:37:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:37:19 -0800 Message-ID: <32CFF4CE.3A95@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 18:37:02 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Other scheme of Gramme's generator References: <199701041829.TAA09338@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OgXsP.0.Gd.ii3qo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1048 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > This is part of the Gramme machine superposition for magnet and rotor. > It is view from top of the system. > > I think that best analogy is water mill wheel. > > ________ ________ > ] [ > ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -[ > ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -[ > ] - - -.-. - - - - - - - - x- - - - - - - - -.- .- - - -[ > ] - -.- - - .- - - - - - - -I- - - - - - - -. - - -.- - -[ > ] - .- - - - -.- - - - - - -I- - - - - - -. - - - - -.- -[ > N pole ] -.- coil- - -.- - - - - - I coil L2 - -. - -coil -- .--[ > ] -.- -L1 - - -.============*============. - - L3- - -.--[ S pole > ] - .- - - - -. - - - - - - I- - - - - - -.- - - - - .- -[ > ] - - . - - .- - - - - - - -I - - - - - - - .- - - - - --[ > ] - - - .-.- - - - - - - - -I- - - - - - - - - .-. - - --[ > ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - x- - - - - - - - - - - - - --[ > ] flux minimum flux maximum flux minimum [ > ] position position position [ > _______] [_______ > > Rotor consist here of four coils. Two coil is parallel to the screen > of your monitor. Two coils are perpendicular to the screen. > Coil L1 is moving to observer, coil L2 is moving from left to right, > coil L3 is moving from observer, coil L4 (behind L2) is moving from > right to left. > > I have not say more. > > Please, if you'll find some more info about Zenob Teofil Gramme inventions, > let me know the source. > > --- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 Interesting, but if the field of the coils accelerates the disk, what limits this roation, and prevents the destruction of the device? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 5 18:09:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05175; Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:06:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:06:53 -0800 Message-ID: <32D15BF9.A37@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 12:09:30 -0800 From: Max X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: Subscribing to the DIGEST Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Yynd8.0.mG1.yu5qo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1049 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all and merry xmas and happy New Year! Due to the xmas buzz I am forced to change my email list strategy as I have 1000 email piling up in my intray and I am resolved not become slave to this internet monster longer than I have to!! Can someone please give me the correct procedure for subscribing to the DIGEST and also unsubscribing to the LIST. Thank you, Max. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 6 03:25:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA29294; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 03:21:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 03:21:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32D0DF0D.77E6@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 21:46:29 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Other scheme of Gramme's generator References: <199701041829.TAA09338@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gjpcc.0.d97.31Eqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1050 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > This is part of the Gramme machine superposition for magnet and rotor. > It is view from top of the system. > > I think that best analogy is water mill wheel. > > ________ ________ > ] [ > ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -[ > ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -[ > ] - - -.-. - - - - - - - - x- - - - - - - - -.- .- - - -[ > ] - -.- - - .- - - - - - - -I- - - - - - - -. - - -.- - -[ > ] - .- - - - -.- - - - - - -I- - - - - - -. - - - - -.- -[ > N pole ] -.- coil- - -.- - - - - - I coil L2 - -. - -coil -- .--[ > ] -.- -L1 - - -.============*============. - - L3- - -.--[ S pole > ] - .- - - - -. - - - - - - I- - - - - - -.- - - - - .- -[ > ] - - . - - .- - - - - - - -I - - - - - - - .- - - - - --[ > ] - - - .-.- - - - - - - - -I- - - - - - - - - .-. - - --[ > ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - x- - - - - - - - - - - - - --[ > ] flux minimum flux maximum flux minimum [ > ] position position position [ > _______] [_______ > Hi Alex, Why do you say coils L1 & L3 are at Min Flux and coils L2 & L4 are at Max flux? I must be missing something here. It should be the other way around. Remember the coils must be moving and as close to right angles to the flux as possible. Do you agree that NO voltage will be generated in coils L2 & L4? I am doing a simulation for you. WIll post it soon. Regards Greg -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 6 03:34:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA30326; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 03:30:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 03:30:31 -0800 Message-ID: <32D0E164.72EF@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 21:56:28 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <32CFECD7.A55@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CtAFY.0.lP7.M9Eqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1051 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Cool eh? > > You can just sit there, exactly the way a rock simply will not, without > doing and work at all. Hi Bob, Takes a while for this to sink in. But you are 100% correct. Still working on improvements for your Barkenhausen Effect Battery. Can suggest several ways to increase voltage output, but ferromagnetics is like a transformer. Increase the number of secondary windings and the vlotage goes up. But we all know what happens to the current. Trying to extract power from your BEB would require a source of additional power to overcome the reverse flux that drawing power would generate. The ferrites themselves can not supply power, only flux. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 6 17:32:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA03356; Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:29:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 17:29:13 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 02:25:58 +0100 Message-Id: <199701070125.CAA00438@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: finsrud2.mpg now available ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"hjuMZ1.0.Cq.cRQqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1052 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I have uploaded now the longer sequence of the Finsrud Perpetual Motion machine MPEG movie, which is about 2.3 MBytes big ! (about 12 seconds of video with original sound) It is now available at: http://www.overunity.de/movies/finsrud2.mpg You can play it for sure on Win95 and WinNT with the FREE Microsoft ActiveMovie player , available e.g. at: http://www.rentafriend.de/movies/actmov.exe (660KB big ) or with the XingMPEG player 3.x ! If you are on a MAC, try the software player: MPEGCD If you are on Unix, try the MPEGTV software player. Cause we are now on a 2MBit link, the access will be much more enhanced to the www.overunity.de site ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 00:03:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA20844; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:01:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 00:01:20 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32D0DF0D.77E6@mail.enternet.com.au> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 10:43:45 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Other scheme of Gramme's generator Lines: 47 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nqths.0.b55.EBWqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1053 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Mr. Greg Watson, Yes, coils are moving. I wrote that L1 is moving to the screen (to observer) and all four coils are rotating. _______ / I L2 / I / ____/ I / I I ___________ I / I I / / I / I I / L1 /____I____ L3 pole S I N I /___________/ /I I I / I /I I I / I/ I I I / / I I I / I L4 I I I / I I I / / I / I / I / I / / ___I/ I hope that this scheme is clear: flux in position L1 is minimum, in position L4 flux is maximum. When coil is moving from position L4 to postion L1, the change of flux is "increasing", and coil is moving from magnet pole. When coil is moving from position L3 to position L4, flux is decreasing, and coil is moving to the pole. So, when distance between coil and pole of magnet is increasing (L1-->L2 or L3-->L4) by Lenz law induction current create secondary magnet field that is directed to make a repulsion from near pole of stator. When distance between coil and pole of stator magnet is decreasing (L4-->L1 or L2-->L3) by Lenz law induction current create secondary magnet field to make a attraction between coil and pole of stator. Notice: We supposed that field between magnets N and S is even and linear. So, square of pole must be great enough to make even field in area of rotor. I hope that this drawing can help to reproduce idea in metal. Best respect, --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 05:52:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA18527; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 05:47:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 05:47:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32D252EE.2504@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:13:10 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Other scheme of Gramme's generator References: <32D0DF0D.77E6@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v481Z.0.JX4.9Gbqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1054 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Dear Mr. Greg Watson, > > Yes, coils are moving. I wrote that L1 is moving to the screen (to observer) > and all four coils are rotating. > > _______ > / I L2 > / I / > ____/ I / > I I ___________ I / > I I / / I / > I I / L1 /____I____ L3 pole S > I N I /___________/ /I > I I / I /I > I I / I/ I > I I / / I > I I / I L4 I > I I / I I > I / / I / > I / I / > I / / > ___I/ > > I hope that this scheme is clear: flux in position L1 is minimum, in position > L4 flux is maximum. Wrong. Coil L4 produces Min voltage as it is moving PARALLEL with fulx. Coil L1 produces Max Voltage at it is moving at right angles to the flux. > When coil is moving from position L4 to postion L1, the > change of flux is "increasing", Correct. > and coil is moving from magnet pole. Wrong. Coil is moving to the Pole. > When coil > is moving from position L3 to position L4, flux is decreasing, Correct. > and coil is > moving to the pole. Wrong. Coil is moving away from pole. > So, when distance between coil and pole of magnet is > increasing (L1-->L2 or L3-->L4) by Lenz law induction current create secondary > magnet field that is directed to make a repulsion from near pole of stator. Wrong. Coil flux is dropping and the coil induced flux will attempt to maintain coil flux causing increased attraction between coil and near pole. > When distance between coil and pole of stator magnet is decreasing (L4-->L1 > or L2-->L3) by Lenz law induction current create secondary magnet field to > make a attraction between coil and pole of stator. Wrong. Coil flux is increasing and coil induced flux will attempt to maintain coil flux causing the coil to be repelled away from the pole. > > Notice: We supposed that field between magnets N and S is even and linear. > So, square of pole must be great enough to make even field in area of rotor. > Agreeded. > Hi Alex, Thanks for the above. Hope you understand my comments. You must understand that coils only sense rate of change to generate voltage. Distance is not a big concern. Please understand that just because a coil (L4/L2) is at right angles to the magnet's flux, doesn't mean that it will generate max voltage. The coils at L4 and L2 are moving parallel to the flux and will generate min voltage. Please consider this fact and look again at my reply. Sincerely Greg -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 07:51:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA06598; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:48:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:48:29 -0800 Message-ID: <32D22A06.53E5@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 10:48:38 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tapping the ZPE. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wEj7Z2.0._c1.B1dqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1055 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > My point is that we already tap the ZPE at many levels. In fact every form > of energy production taps the ZPE in one form or another. It's just that we > usually do this symmetrically, i.e. we put in as much as we take out. > In fact the conservation of energy/mass "law" is based on this symmetry. Quite correct, it's a perfect balance. Although becuase we have this balance in place, have we tapped the ZPE, or only observed it's role in nature? > None of these processes appear to have direct consequences, purely from > tapping the ZPE. Though there are frequently other consequences of > utilisation, as you have pointed out. What I am trying to say is that the > problems are associated with the individual methods, rather than with the > source itself. As we have maintained a balance, we might not expect to see the possible consequences from creating a localized imbalance around the device? There are however reports of devices which appear to operate for a short time, and then fail, only to work again at a later time, or in a different location. How can we say that this is not a result of localized ZPE effects yet? We simply do not know. As nature always maintains a balance of the ZPE, how can we assume from this that we may create an imbalance without possible adverse effects? This is an act of faith alone, not an objective perspective. > So in this sense you are right. We should indeed be cautious where specific > applications are concerned (e.g. nuclear power has consequences that were > initially played down), particularly with an eye to "side effects". However > I don't believe that we need fear the source itself, and I see no reason > why this line of research should be pursued any less than any other line of > research. How did I give the impression that this line of research should not be persued any less than another? Perhaps by suggesting that 'free energy' technology does not raise us above the laws of nature? Or mayby I implied that there may be no such thing as a free lunch, even if we do tap the ZPE? Heresy! I must be suppressing the field of research or something, heck, I must be some anti-free energy type, right? I am simply pointing out that more research into the nature and role of ZPE would be prudent before we plan on large scale energy extraction. How many researchers are, or have tried to tap this ZPE, and how many have simply began to study the ZPE itself first? Is this situation wise? I'm not so sure that the powers of creation can be assumed safe without some hard, cold facts first. The quantum vacuum fluxuations that comprise the ZPE have been implicated in phenomena as diverse as the self organization of biological processes to the very process of consciousness itself. Who knows yet how much of this is true? We must remenber that people want to 'beleive' in a pollution free, zero side effect, perpetual source of power that will carry mankind to the stars and beyond. A nobel desire indeed, but what in nature suggests that this is a reasonable expectation? The whole of the history of technology consistantly shows us that nothing is free, and everything has side effects. Nature always ballances ZPE exchanges. "Free energy" technology, by definition, seeks to violate this balance. Driven by nobel desires, it is easy to assume, to beleive, that ZPE holds hope for endless energy, but we must be objective in the face of building evidence that there are direct repercussions from patterning the ZPE flux. I'm not saying that we cannot deal with this issue, only that is might be prudent to study this side of the coin first. Patterning ZPE may well have benificial effects we can use, but we wont know unless we study the subject. This study is important BEFORE we begin large scale ZPE based energy extraction, not after the fact. Again, I cite the whole of technology as my referance for this position. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 10:09:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA07494; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:06:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 10:06:23 -0800 Message-ID: <32D28DCE.7B9A@worldonline.nl> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 18:54:22 +0100 From: Ronald de Mol Organization: World Online X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <32CFECD7.A55@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U8_Xi.0.-q1.T2fqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1056 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Zachary wrote: > > >Get a big pair of 'ring' magnets. Put a dowel through their centers > >with their poles opposing and mount this dowel on a base to keep it > >pointed up. The top magnet should 'float', held up by the magnetic > >field between the two. Now, measure the height of the top magnet once > >a week to see if/when it starts floating lower and lower. Will it? > > Get ready for this, as far as I understand this the answer is, > > No. > > >If so, is one magnet being demagnetized? which one? both? by how > >much? How much energy is expended holding up the floating magnet? > > Ok, > > a) no. > b) neither. > c), Nope, not both. > d) By exactly zero. > e) None at all. > > Hard to beleive eh? If the magnet is motionless, then there is no work > being done. The force of gravity, is exactly countered by the force of > the magnetic field, and once the magnet falls to the point where these > forces become equal, we no longer have any potnetial differance > available to do work. > > Force is not energy. > > This is an important differance. > > > Ok, But what about this one: 1) Take a magnet and coil. Mount them so that they can't move. ( --M-- --C--) 2) Change the field between the magnet and coil. ( here --^ ) ( Rotating a wheel with iron strips or something like that... ) 3) Current is produced. The magnet delivers energy. ( it's field actual. ) The wheel needs external energy to rotate, but the (motionless) magnet is giving energy to the (motionless) coil. Right ? So the magnet should be fading in power. Right ? So, is the magnet being demagnetized in this case ? RdM. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 11:21:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA23661; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:17:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:17:59 -0800 Message-ID: <32D25ABF.6DB6@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 14:16:31 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <32CFECD7.A55@tiac.net> <32D28DCE.7B9A@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uyY633.0.Qn5.Y5gqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1057 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ronald de Mol wrote: > Ok, But what about this one: > > 1) Take a magnet and coil. > Mount them so that they can't move. ( --M-- --C--) > 2) Change the field between the magnet and coil. ( here --^ ) > ( Rotating a wheel with iron strips or something like that... ) > 3) Current is produced. > The magnet delivers energy. ( it's field actual. ) Exactly wrong! See below: > The wheel needs external energy to rotate, but the (motionless) magnet > is giving energy to the (motionless) coil. Right ? > So the magnet should be fading in power. Right ? > > So, is the magnet being demagnetized in this case ? > > RdM. Ok, there will be eddy currents induced into the iron strips, which will oppose the mechanical force moving the strips. These eddy currents will oppose the magnets field, which will heat the magnet, and depolarize it in due time. So yes, the magnet will depolarize. As current is drawn from the coil, yet another opposed magnetic field is induced, which will make the situation worse still. We only make the problem worse as we draw more current. We must realize that the magnet is not delivering energy! It's field is not delivering energy either, it only allows the mechanical input energy to be converted into electromagnetic energy in the coil. Stop the mechanical energy input, and note that the delivered energy also disappears. This is not a coincidence. Changing the magnetic field took work, some of which results in the current in the coil. The magnetic field is only the tool of energy transformation, not generation. A 'generator' does not generate ANY energy at all, it only converts input mechanical energy into output electrical energy less the internal losses. There is a vast differance between the magnetic field converting input mechanical energy into electromagnetic energy, and the magnetic field 'giving' the coil energy. The latter simply is not the case. Remember that not even DePalma's N machine got around this problem! Without mass in motion, the magnetic field is not energy, but potnetial. Once we introduce mass in motion, Lentz's law rules I'm afraid. If you want a permanent magnet to 'give' energy into a coil, make yourself an AC permanent magnet, and wind a coil onto it. Sadly, there is a big shortage of AC permanent magnets. Not even "Sparky" Sweet has had any. If you did manage to get ahold of such a beast, drawing current from a coil near such a fictional magnet would still oppose the magnets field by Lentz's law, and heat the magnet, so your still not getting your lunch for free yet. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 11:38:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA28487; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:35:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:35:29 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32D28DCE.7B9A@worldonline.nl> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 22:33:16 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy. Reply on Ronald de Mol... Lines: 16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GME0l1.0._y6.yLgqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1059 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Mr. Ronald de Mol, 100% agree with you. I admire your patience. It is extreme difficult to make clear such sort things for hard ortodoxes whoes are sure that magnet must be source of POWER if you take power from generator. But magnet is source of field, source of ENERGY, not POWER. Changing field is an source of POWER and just change create the difference. Reason of change is a reason for output POWER. All above is a base of classical philosophy, or modern theory of information. Best Respect, --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 11:38:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA28432; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:35:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:35:11 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32D252EE.2504@mail.enternet.com.au> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 22:25:22 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Other scheme of Gramme's generator Lines: 15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2LzBC3.0.2y6.iLgqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1058 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Mr. Greg Watson, Wrong is your point of view: there are no any coils are moving PARALLEL to lines of magnetic field, since all coils are rotating. Let's stop this non-useful discussion. If I'll have a case to produce this machine, I'll test this idea. If someone wish make it, I'll help for him to make idea more clear. Best respect, --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 12:29:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA08874; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 12:26:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 12:26:26 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:23:29 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: T E S T (ignore).. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Iq0AX.0.RA2.n5hqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1060 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>TeSt (ignore) -=thanks=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 13:20:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA20264; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:17:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:17:38 -0800 Message-ID: <32D27726.294D@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 16:17:42 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy. Reply on Ronald de Mol... References: <32D28DCE.7B9A@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8hM3V3.0.Xy4.mrhqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1061 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Dear Mr. Ronald de Mol, > > 100% agree with you. I admire your patience. It is extreme difficult > to make clear such sort things for hard ortodoxes whoes are sure that > magnet must be source of POWER if you take power from generator. But > magnet is source of field, source of ENERGY, not POWER. Changing field > is an source of POWER and just change create the difference. Reason of > change is a reason for output POWER. > > All above is a base of classical philosophy, or modern theory of information. Please expand on the differance between 'energy' and 'power' here. I think the significant differance is between 'potential' and 'energy', but I may not fully understand your point yet. Is it your opinion that in a conventional generator, the magnet supplies: A) Energy. B) Power. C) None of the above. I think that there might be some confusion over terminology here. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 13:24:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21028; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:21:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:21:26 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2BD6B.1696@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 07:47:31 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <32CFECD7.A55@tiac.net> <32D28DCE.7B9A@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZpTJx.0.F85.Kvhqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1062 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ronald de Mol wrote: > > So the magnet should be fading in power. Right ? > > So, is the magnet being demagnetized in this case ? > > RdM. Hi Ronald, The energy comes from the source moving the iron strip. Read my previous flux gate discussions. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 13:31:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA22385; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:28:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:28:00 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2BEF1.ADF@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 07:54:01 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Other scheme of Gramme's generator References: <32D252EE.2504@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jTVkr1.0.dT5.R_hqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1063 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Dear Mr. Greg Watson, > > Wrong is your point of view: there are no any coils are moving PARALLEL to > lines of magnetic field, since all coils are rotating. > > Let's stop this non-useful discussion. If I'll have a case to produce this Hi Alex, Please look at your example on a millisecond to millisecond time frame. As coil L4/L2 rotate to be at right angles to the flux they will sense very little flux change and therefore generate very little voltage. Many years for working to develope flux gate generators has been a VERY hard teacher. Natural law doesn't work on hope only hard nose physics. Never loose faith, there is a way. My very best regards, Greg. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 13:43:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA24688; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:40:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 13:40:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2C1ED.4679@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 08:06:45 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy. Reply on Ronald de Mol... References: <32D28DCE.7B9A@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1Ul_U1.0.916.JBiqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1064 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Dear Mr. Ronald de Mol, > > 100% agree with you. I admire your patience. It is extreme difficult > to make clear such sort things for hard ortodoxes whoes are sure that > magnet must be source of POWER if you take power from generator. But > magnet is source of field, source of ENERGY, not POWER. Changing field > is an source of POWER and just change create the difference. Reason of > change is a reason for output POWER. > > All above is a base of classical philosophy, or modern theory of information. > Hi Alex, Natural law is the only hard critic here. Many either don't understand or don't want to understand what mother nature is trying to tell us. Any overunity device invented 100 years ago or 1000 years in the future will still have to exits in nature and obey its (not mine or Bob's) laws. The search for what we all seek can only be found by a very hard nose understanding of natural law. It will assist us to sort through the noise to find the way. In the next few weeks, I present several ways I believe research should go. Stay tuned. There is a way. Best regards, Greg. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 14:04:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA29786; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:01:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:01:25 -0800 Message-ID: <32D28169.46F@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 17:01:29 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tapping the ZPE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pOKjT.0.IH7.oUiqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1065 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > << this that we may create an imbalance without possible adverse effects? > This is an act of faith alone, not an objective perspective.>>> > > It's about as objective as all of you guys thinking there IS ZPE. So far I > have not seen compelling proof that ZPE exist....just a bunch of machine > designs that no one can get to work. And even IF they worked, how does that > automatically mean it's running off of ZPE? There could be many other, > probably more probable, reasons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there > ISN'T ZPE, I'm just saying there isn't proof. > -Adam Grossman Zero Point Energy, or the Quantum Vacuum Fluxuations, are a known phenomena from accepted modern physics. These fluxuations are detectable, and emperically shown to exist completely outside the field of "free energy" research. You might want to do a bit of research on this point. Feynman's discussion of the Lamb shift might be a good starting place. The operation, or lack there of, of free energy devices has little to do with the existance of the ZPE. To say that no proof exists denies a lot of direct experimental evidence. Do you have any evidence to support this claim? Is this your opinion, or an objective statement of fact? If the latter, please provide referances, etc. On what basis do you state that there is no proof? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 14:55:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA11623; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:53:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 14:53:04 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107145312.00a4bccc@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: warlord@mail.localaccess.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 14:53:14 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: warlord Subject: Re: Lenz Law Violation ---> Greg Watson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"QtVry3.0.Or2.DFjqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1066 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg. In the posts on vortex-l titled "Could somebody criticize this..." and "Liag, Ecklin demystyfied" written by Epitaxy in December 1996, several interesting principles were described. I disagree with the subject line "Lenz law violation.." and would prefer "Lenz law harnessing..." instead If you look these posts up you will remember they described a system of a permanent magnet and a solenoid coil with a movable iron plate in the gap between the coil and the magnet. You have NOT voiced the objection that the coil will respond to the magnetic flux change caused by the shielding effect of the iron plate, by producing an alike magnetic pole to the PM. Nobody else denied it either, and I verified experimentally with hall-effect sensor that the coil indeed produces an alike pole in response to the iron plate approach into the gap. I ask everybody to replicate this phenomenon. You have however pointed out that an alike magnetic pole produced by the coil will tend to decrease the overall magnetic flux in the system. I understand your above statement in this way: The alike pole produced by the coil will weaken the attraction of the iron plate to the permanent magnet. (would this happen because the flux from PM would be weakened by the opposing flux from the coil) The above interpretation could be extended to say that if the coil produces the same magnetic flux intensity as the PM (while the coil is geometrically opposing the PM, forming the gap) the fields of the coil & PM will combine exactly in the midpoint (the gap) in such a way that the iron plate will not experience any attraction into the gap between the magnet and the coil or at least weaken the attraction considerably. For all practical purposes the coil can be SUBSTITUTED by a PM to produce the alike magnetic pole. I have experimentally verified that this is incorrect, the iron plate IS pulled into the gap between to opposing permanent magnets. (gap has to small enough) and will stop experiencing attraction only exactly in the midpoint of the gap, which would happen anyway even the PM was not opposed by another. Furthermore the iron plate is pulled into the gap between two opposing magnets STRONGER than to one non-opposed magnet. !!! ***** VERY IMPORTANT ***** The above simple experiment easily done with two permanent magnets and an iron plate proves that opposing magnetic fluxes do NOT decrease the attraction of the metal plate as you suggested. If you reply to this message please use simple words and short sentences, since English is not my first language. (I had problems with some of your big words and had to ask a friend for help). > >NNNNNSSSSS SSSSSNNNNN > I > I > I > I > I > S = South Pole of a permanent magnet N = North Pole of a permanent magnet I = Iron plate (moving up but restricted sideways) At 02:56 AM 1/5/97 +1030, you wrote: >Hi Stephan, > >I have seen this material before but have not done any real thinking >about what is happening. My quick feeling is that the coil's field >is increasing as the iron moves closer and that the increased power >drawn by the coil is related to the iron's movement. I will look at >it further and report. > >Hope the weather is not too bad in Berlin. Was 38C here today. >Christmas at the beach......its different. > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 15:07:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA15058; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:03:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:03:30 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2D6FD.596A@plix.com> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 15:06:37 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <32CFECD7.A55@tiac.net> <32D28DCE.7B9A@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VHuTZ3.0.6h3._Ojqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1067 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ronald de Mol wrote: > > > Ok, But what about this one: > > 1) Take a magnet and coil. > Mount them so that they can't move. ( --M-- --C--) > 2) Change the field between the magnet and coil. ( here --^ ) > ( Rotating a wheel with iron strips or something like that... ) > 3) Current is produced. > The magnet delivers energy. ( it's field actual. ) > > The wheel needs external energy to rotate, but the (motionless) magnet > is giving energy to the (motionless) coil. Right ? > So the magnet should be fading in power. Right ? > > So, is the magnet being demagnetized in this case ? > > RdM. You are describing my LIAG! I don't think magnets decrease in power just from being used (except the cheaper iron magnets, which demagnitize easily). Take a magneto on a lawnmower, for instance. The permanant magnet in the flywheel zips past the spark coil millions of times in the course of its use, yet does not become demagnitized. The engine would probably fail long before the flywheel magnet. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 16:48:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA01589; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:43:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:43:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2A194.1C7F@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:18:44 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5fXTx1.0.JO.gskqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1068 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Dorman wrote: > You are describing my LIAG! > I don't think magnets decrease in power just from being used (except the > cheaper iron magnets, which demagnitize easily). Take a magneto on a > lawnmower, for instance. The permanant magnet in the flywheel zips past > the spark coil millions of times in the course of its use, yet does not > become demagnitized. The engine would probably fail long before the > flywheel magnet. > --Bob Dorman The permanent magnets in a magneto do depolarize. Largly this is due to heat rather than by the back EMF of the spark coil however. Aircraft magnetos ($$$!) have these magents replaced as a matter of course after a fixed number of hours of operation. Why do you state that they are not demagnetized? The energy of each spark produced by the magneto comes fully from the mechanical energy turning the magneto. This can be confirmed by emperical methods, so we dont need to wonder if the textbooks might be wrong about why, we can simply say that it is, right up to the point where someone (you?) proves otherwise. So, if more mechanical energy is used by the magneto (due to internal loss) than is delivered by the spark, where is any energy that is attributed to the field of the magnet? This is true for all magnetic generators with moving parts, be thay coil, magnet, coil and magnet, flux gate only, flux gate and coil, flux gate and magnet, or what have you. Simply fixing the coil and magnet will not yeild a generator that violates this rule. If your LIAG device operates in the way RdM asked about, then you must understand why 'conventional wisdom' will think that the device is not over unity, and therefore will not self run. Does your LIAG self run? Once you understand this, it will be very easy to show that something different is happening in your device. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 16:48:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA01778; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:43:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:43:58 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:00:29 +0100 Message-Id: <199701080000.BAA02347@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: little correction regarding letter to J.L.Naudin Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ROb571.0.ZR.9tkqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1069 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >X-POP3-Rcpt: harti@mail >From: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de (Wolf-Dietrich Bauer) >Sender: uucp@krypta.aball.de >Reply-To: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de >Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:12:00 +0200 >Subject: little correction regarding letter to J.L.Naudin >To: harti@bbtt.de >In one of my last letters I gave some tips how to optimize a LIAG-Bedini >generator and wrote. > >>6) Make the radius of rotation bigger. This will enhance the velocity of >>the rotating magnets and therefore the voltage spikes become higher. > >This is not quite correct because if the diameter is augmented torque and >power input increases as well. It can work perhaps if the whole setup is >upscaled taking n-times more magnets and coils in the periphery at n-times >bigger diameter. Then frequency f can be reduced to f/n reducing the >friction with the quadratic depencence ~f^2. >But I think this is not of big importance now at the low stage today. > >Best regards > >Dieter Bauer > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 16:48:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA01877; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:44:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:44:13 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:00:00 +0100 Message-Id: <199701080000.AAA02322@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: Nils Rognerud From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Sweet and Swisss Testatika Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"nUEG02.0.qS.Ltkqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1070 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Stefan, > >I enjoyed responding to your email. Perahps you could respond to one of my >questions: Sorry, I am pretty busy, so your questions have got lost in all the recent emails... > >1) Do you know anyone who has replicated a working device of F. Sweet? I >understand M. Watson was preaching how to build the device with full >construction plans. No not yet.. Who is this Mr. Watson ?? I only have a videotape of the Sweet device. I will make a few MPEGs soon, so you can have a look at it, although there is only a few lighting bulbs to see and a "black box" with lots of=20 cables going in and out.. I bet, the narration is of Tom Bearden. This tape must be done in 1987 when I remember it correctly.... > >2) Do you have any knowledge on how the Swisss Testakia device is working? It is probably a capacitive transformer which transforms the high voltage via different big capacitors and a special crystal diode down to about 270 Volts DC at 10 Ampere... But how they get all the power out of it, is still a secret to me... Also Methernitha seems not to work anymore on these devices.. Either there is bad for humans radiation coming out of it, or there are other reasons I don=B4t know, why they are so secret about them now and I also did not hear, that they showed it lately ... Also they seem to have financial problems I heard lately... In February I will build with Dieter Bauer the Ecklin Bedini converter he describes on his theory article at: http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm Then we will see and can calculate to get the best output ! The formulas are there now, so we will know, which results we will get with certain magnets and iron material parameters. > >I look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Stefan. > >-Nils > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 16:49:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA02049; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:44:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:44:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 01:00:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199701080000.BAA02352@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: RMCarrell@aol.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Magnetism & Finsrud PM Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"eGDdw.0.QV.qtkqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1071 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Happy New Year, Stefan > Happy new year also to you ! >Glad you found my post quotable. > >I haven't been following closely the current discussion on magnetic machines >in vortex. I caught your interest in the matter of manipulation of the >magnetic field as a rotor pole approaches and leaves a stator pole. This >seems to be a common feature of the Kawai, Muller, and Aspden-Adams machines. >The stator pole is effectively neutralized as soon as the rotor pole faces >it, so that its magnetism does not exert a backwards torque as inertia >carries the rotor forward. This requires external switching in most cases. >This may increase the motor's efficiency but in itself does not seem to yield >o/u operation. > >I assume you subscribe to IE. The new issue, in my mail today, has an article >by Aspden about the Adams-Aspden motor, and a reference to one of his energy >papers. Aspden had the UK patent office send me a copy of the patent as soon >as it was released, and I recommend you get a copy of it, UK Patent GB 2 282 >708 B, Electrical motor-generator, proprietors Harold Aspden and George >Adams. Okay, I will try to get it... I hope IE will have a good article on it. Yes, I am a subscriber and am looking forward to get the new issue.. > >I have a lot of Aspden's material, including his Physics Without Einstein, >now out of print. his Aether Science Papers has a summary of his work and >reprints of critical published papers. The patent has a clear exposition of >the functioning of the machine, which is supplemented by the IE article. >Aspden may not be wholly correct, but his work is self-consistant and >impressive in scope. I see. > >Paulo Correa has told me that he has permission from Aspden to post his >energy reports on his (Correa's) web site. You might look for them there. >There is also a long (35 page) article about Reich's work and its distiction >from the PAGD phenomenon. This is an extensive rebuttal to allegations made >by Marett that the Correa work is derivative from Reich's. When I have more time I wil have a look ! Thanks for the info. > >Are the pictures of the Finsrud machine yours? Hmm, no, I did get them from Albert Hauser from Denmark, which is a friend of mine and he leads the Danish free energy research group ! He took them. He has visited Finsrud in Norway a few weeks ago ! And he or a colleague also took the video tape of it I have now converted to 2 MPEGs ! http://www.overunity.de/movies/ >Can you verify that there is >no hidden driver? Yes, I have a technical drawing with all the parts of it in DIN A2 format, donated by Albert Hauser ! I will scan it soon and post it on my web site. >In the US one can buy several desktop toys which appear to >be perpetual motion devices. They have in common a spinning rotor on >low-friction bearings which runs with no apparent input power. The rotor has >a magnet on it, and the base conceals a battery powered electromagnetic pulse >driver. The approaching magnet on the rotor generates an emf in the coil >which triggers the circuit to admit a pulse of current from the battery timed >to give a push to the passing magnet. The circuit then shuts down until the >magnet again approaches. The power drain is very small. > Yes, I know these toys, but these are not inside the Finsrud machine. He has in the buttom case two magnet plates, which repell each other, so the upper magnet plate floats on the lower one and toggles back and force and thus also the upper rim on which the ball rolls floats around and so the whole machine is kept going ! The upper magnets and the pendulums are only there to stabilize and deaccelerate the rotation of the ball.... The moving force seems to be the 2 magnet plates inside the buttom casing. >The Finsrud machine also appears to contain a low friction magnetic rotor >(the ball) which could be kept going with very little input power. See explanation above ! regards, Stefan. > >Regards, Mike > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 16:51:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA03022; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:47:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 16:47:08 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2A81D.7CCD@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:46:37 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Violation ---> Greg Watson References: <3.0.32.19970107145312.00a4bccc@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NYbXM2.0.ek.Awkqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1072 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: warlord wrote: > If you look these posts up you will remember they described a system of a > permanent magnet and a solenoid coil with a movable iron plate in the gap > between the coil and the magnet. > You have however pointed out that an alike magnetic pole produced by the > coil will tend to decrease the overall magnetic flux in the system. We must also account for the induced pole(s) within the iron plate! > I understand your above statement in this way: The alike pole produced by > the coil will weaken the attraction of the iron plate to the permanent > magnet. (would this happen because the flux from PM would be weakened by > the opposing flux from the coil) The superposition of magnetic flux is a bit different than this. > The above interpretation could be extended to say that if the coil produces > the same magnetic flux intensity as the PM (while the coil is geometrically > opposing the PM, forming the gap) the fields of the coil & PM will combine > exactly in the midpoint (the gap) in such a way that the iron plate will not > experience any attraction into the gap between the magnet and the coil or at > least weaken the attraction considerably. This is not correct. > For all practical purposes the coil can be SUBSTITUTED by a PM to produce > the alike magnetic pole. False. > I have experimentally verified that this is incorrect, the iron plate IS > pulled into the gap between to opposing permanent magnets. (gap has to > small enough) > and will stop experiencing attraction only exactly in the midpoint of the > gap, which would happen anyway even the PM was not opposed by another. > > Furthermore the iron plate is pulled into the gap between two opposing > magnets STRONGER than to one non-opposed magnet. !!! ***** VERY IMPORTANT > ***** > > The above simple experiment easily done with two permanent magnets and an > iron plate proves that opposing magnetic fluxes do NOT decrease the > attraction of the metal plate as you suggested. This experiment is flawed, and is misleading. Two opposed permanent magnets with a small gap do not reduce magnetic flux between them in the way this experiment assumes. The magnetic flux between the permanent magnets will become highly distorted, and the geometery of the magnetic lines of flux will change in such a way that they do not cross one another. The total flux between opposed magnets, in the small gap is equal to the total flux if the magnets were aiding, but the flux density, or lines per centimeter, is much higher due to the field geometery distortions. This can make it appear that the iron plate is more strongly attracted to the gap with magnets opposed than aiding. > If you reply to this message please use simple words and short sentences, > since English is not my first language. (I had problems with some of your > big words and had to ask a friend for help). > > > > >NNNNNSSSSS SSSSSNNNNN > > I > > I > > I > > I > > I > > > > S = South Pole of a permanent magnet > N = North Pole of a permanent magnet > I = Iron plate (moving up but restricted sideways) Your English is perfectly clear! If you use long, bar magnets, and place a Gaussmeter over the N pole at either end of your example, you will note that the field strenght of the magnet does not reduce below its normal value as the second magnet is brought into opposition. This shows that the magnetic field between opposed magnets is not 'eliminated' as assumed by the description of the attractive force on an iron plate. In addition to this, we must remember that the iron plate will induce eddy currents as it approaches the magnet pole (poles if opposed! See above.) and this eddy current will follow Lentz's law, and produce a force that opposes the mechanical force moving the iron plate. There will be mechanical resistance to moving the plate with magnets aiding or opposed. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 17:45:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA18388; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:35:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:35:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:31:13 +0100 Message-Id: <199701080131.CAA02716@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Lenz law harnessing... Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, warlord@LocalAccess.com, Epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"ydcXy1.0.CV4.vdlqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1073 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >Hi Greg. > >In the posts on vortex-l titled "Could somebody criticize this..." and >"Liag, Ecklin demystyfied" written by Epitaxy in December 1996, several >interesting principles were described. > >I disagree with the subject line "Lenz law violation.." and would prefer >"Lenz law harnessing..." instead > >If you look these posts up you will remember they described a system of a >permanent magnet and a solenoid coil with a movable iron plate in the gap >between the coil and the magnet. > >You have NOT voiced the objection that the coil will respond to the magnetic >flux change caused by the shielding effect of the iron plate, by producing >an alike magnetic pole to the PM. > >Nobody else denied it either, and I verified experimentally with hall-effect >sensor that the coil indeed produces an alike pole in response to the iron >plate approach into the gap. I ask everybody to replicate this phenomenon. Yes, I agree fully ! I also got email from Epitaxy and he has tried it using a hall sensor and has done several experiments with it. I bet, this design can really harness the Lenz Law ! The only big question is: When the iron plate is in the middle of the gap, you have to open the circuit of the coil and to "flush" all its magnetic energy via a fluorescent bulb, connected in parallel to the coil (like in a Newman machine) , to get rid of the stored magnetic energy inside the coil very quickly, so the iron plate is not hold inside the midddle of the gap. The question is then: Will the "flushing" of the magnetic energy in maybe a few mikroseconds produce a back drag magnetic field for the iron plate to brake its motion and thus all kinetic energy won in pulling the iron plate into the gap will be lost ??? That is the big question ! > >You have however pointed out that an alike magnetic pole produced by the >coil will tend to decrease the overall magnetic flux in the system. > >I understand your above statement in this way: The alike pole produced by >the coil will weaken the attraction of the iron plate to the permanent >magnet. (would this happen because the flux from PM would be weakened by >the opposing flux from the coil) > >The above interpretation could be extended to say that if the coil produces >the same magnetic flux intensity as the PM (while the coil is geometrically >opposing the PM, forming the gap) the fields of the coil & PM will combine >exactly in the midpoint (the gap) in such a way that the iron plate will not >experience any attraction into the gap between the magnet and the coil or at >least weaken the attraction considerably. > >For all practical purposes the coil can be SUBSTITUTED by a PM to produce >the alike magnetic pole. > >I have experimentally verified that this is incorrect, the iron plate IS >pulled into the gap between to opposing permanent magnets. (gap has to >small enough) >and will stop experiencing attraction only exactly in the midpoint of the >gap, which would happen anyway even the PM was not opposed by another. > >Furthermore the iron plate is pulled into the gap between two opposing >magnets STRONGER than to one non-opposed magnet. !!! ***** VERY IMPORTANT >***** > That is an interesting statement ! Why is it this way ? >The above simple experiment easily done with two permanent magnets and an >iron plate proves that opposing magnetic fluxes do NOT decrease the >attraction of the metal plate as you suggested. > > If you reply to this message please use simple words and short sentences, >since English is not my first language. (I had problems with some of your >big words and had to ask a friend for help). > > >> >>NNNNNSSSSS SSSSSNNNNN >> I >> I >> I >> I >> I >> > >S = South Pole of a permanent magnet >N = North Pole of a permanent magnet >I = Iron plate (moving up but restricted sideways) > Epitaxy, did you invent this ? If this will take off, you could get the Nobel Price ! :) Maybe there is still any other configuration how to harness the Lenz Law in an easier way and to get rotation ? To produce a motor with the above configuration is pretty difficult? Maybe one could use the iron plate to produce a reciprocationg motor for e.g. a pump ??? So the iron plate would have to be placed between 2 springs and will be pulled in , going over the middle, and getting pulled back in again from the other side, while the coil is controlled to be shorted and opened by a commutator which is connected mechanically to the moving iron plate ! How about this ? Please let me know any comments about this proposal ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 17:47:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA18890; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:38:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:38:00 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:31:15 +0100 Message-Id: <199701080131.CAA02718@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Epitaxy From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Lenz law harnessing ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"3N7ef2.0.yc4.qflqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1074 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Dear Stefan > >Thanks for your feedback > > > >Yes I had verified that the coil really produces south pole when the iron >plate is moving into the gap between the PM and the coil. > >I had used three methods to establish this: 1)A hall effect sensor, 2)A >second small search coil, 3)Monitoring the current in the first coil. > >By monitoring the current direction in the method 2 & 3, I was able to >infer the polarity of the magnetic field produced by the coil. I even went >to the lengths of applying a current to the coil (from an external power >supply), in the same direction as the observed induced current (during >plate approach). With the current from external power supply flowing >through the coil the coil was INDEED repulsed from the permanent magnet. >I could have used the Right-hand-Rule of the solenoid to establish the >latter, but I really wanted to feel the repulsion myself. > >The hall effect sensor measurement confirmed the magnetic field polarity >induced by the coil during the approach of the plate into the gap. Hi Epi, sounds very good ! Please see my other email with some new proposals to do an reciprocating setup e.g. for a pump motor ! Can you see any easier setup to get a rotational motor via this idea? How ? Did YOU invent this solution with the iron plate being pulled into the gap via the PM and the opposing coil ? Was it just your idea ? If yes, congratutalions ! I have thought many years of how to harness the Lenz Law, but did not come to any solution. I guess your design is the first pratical design which is also pretty simple ! Really genius ! > >I have not completed the WHOLE setup yet, I just verified the "component >phenomena" individually. I will have to build a more rigid support >structure and use stronger magnets to verify that these "component >phenomena" really work together. I admit I am a little scared to try >(because of stupid human fear of failure). Go for it, what can you loose ? ! > >Yes the coil needs to be gotten to the "un magnetic" state pretty fast in >order to prevent the "back drag" on the plate. This can indeed be >accomplished by "flashing" the energy in the form of high voltage in short >time after the plate approach phase. Another way to look at it is to >consider that the energy is constantly dissipated in a useful load and the >coil resistance during the plate approach phase AND the more energy is >dissipated in this way the LESS of the energy has to be "DISPOSED" after >the approach phase. The width (not thickness) of the iron plate play a >big role in this case. (see enclosed text below). > >This reduces to a timing problem that exploits the nonlinearity of the >attraction of the metal plate into the gap by both the PM and coil, VERSUS > the position of the plate. I.E. the plate is attracted very little >when it is totally in the gap, more when the leading edge of the plate is >approaching the gap, and again very little when the plate is very far away >from the gap. This way, by varying the energy dissipation in the coil (by >opening and closing) during the approach phase and departure phase, we get >free energy from what I like to call a multiplied magnetic field. (the >plate does the multiplying). I see, yes, that should be possible. Good ideas ! Try the reciprocating plate idea ! Will the plate between 2 springs accelerate or deaccelerate by being pulled in back and forth into the gap ? (proper timing of the coil shortedning and opening ("flushing") must be used of course !) > >The multiplying of the magnetic field is a very interesting phenomenon. >i.e. We start with a south pole of, let's assume, 100% intensity produced >by the permanent magnet before the iron plate moves into the gap and end up >with 200% of the total magnetic field intensity (from the point of view of >the plate) after the plate moves into the gap because both the PM and the >coil are both pulling on the plate with 100% intensity (from each side, >assuming the coil is superconductive). 100% + 100% = 200% (from the point >of view of the plate), BUT =0% if the plate wasn't in the gap because the >two south poles WOULD HAVE canceled each other without the plate to >"shield" or "cleave" the magnetic field. A simple iron plate appears to >be a "magnetic axe" except that each half is as large as the original >before cutting in half (...an oxymoron, or Bearden's theories vindicated ?) > >Let similarities to Ecklin, Bedini, Newman and most importantly the article >in Journal of Applied Physics "...Increased voltage phenomenon in a >magnetic circuit of unconventional design..", be an indication the >validity of my Lenz law defeating experiment. > >As to the replies from other individuals on this subject, I have received a >lot of illogical hate mail for even contemplating such a thing, NOT one >valid theoretical objection, several questions if a working device have >been built. Yes, you can forget those ones, who do not care... just only reply to the ones who read your post and reply in a friendly way and add useful comments. The other only waste your time... > >Horace Heffner on Vortex-L pointed out similarities to the Journal of >Applied physics phenomenon (good news) and pointed out that magnetizing and >demagnetizing an iron plate will heat up the plate (bad news). Good >ferrite material should minimize this undesirable heating. > > One person tried the first experiment with two S-S permanent magnets and >found out that the iron plate is not pulled into the gap, but it instead >stops with the leading edge of the plate in front of the gap. After my >reply to this person that the gap is to large in respect to the plate size, >he replied that the plate is indeed pulled into the gap between the two >permanent magnets. > >One person voiced a qualitative objection whether the coil can be opened >quickly enough to prevent the undesired "back drag" effect and was >concerned that the switch opening the coil would be melted by dissipating >the energy to quickly. He cited the t=L/R relation for current decay in >the coil. This is only a qualtative objection and easily overcome by your >"flashing" method. I replied to this person that dissipating the EXCESS >energy in NOT a problem. Yes, if you do it right with the Fluorescent bulb in parallel to the coil, than there is NO problem at all. I used to work years on different Newman machines, so I guess I know what I am talking about.... :) > >Generally I got the impression that not many people took the time to >understand my post. I don't know why ? I think the principles are simple >and straight forward. High school physics at most. That is right ! Your setup is probably TOO easy to see the genius idea ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 17:50:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA19531; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:41:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:41:04 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:38:53 -0500 Message-ID: <970107175907_877819352@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tapping the ZPE. Resent-Message-ID: <"fugH-3.0.2n4.jilqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1075 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Vacuum fluctiontion ARE proven (By the fact lasers give off light!) and theorized by quantum mechanics, but ZPE is not, and I feel there is a difference between them. I have heard many times on the list that ZPE is a form of energy flowing through space, and that is TOTALLY from vacuum fluctiontions. Vacuum fluctiontions only exist on the time scale of 10^43 seconds when a particle/antiparticle pair (most likely electron and positron) come into existance and then destroy each other. This can hardly be thought of as a flowing sea of energy...it's energy always averages to zero (because of negative energy being "borrowed" to create the positive energy particles.). People on the list don't really have a firm grasp as to what the ZPE and vacuum fluctiations are, so how could they ever hope to make a machine to use them? -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 18:02:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA24347; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:55:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:55:37 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:51:08 +0100 Message-Id: <199701080151.CAA00314@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bshannon@tiac.net From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Violation ---> Greg Watson Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, warlord@LocalAccess.com, Epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"CH6UI2.0.Hy5.Mwlqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1076 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >warlord wrote: > > >> If you look these posts up you will remember they described a system of a >> permanent magnet and a solenoid coil with a movable iron plate in the gap >> between the coil and the magnet. > > > >> You have however pointed out that an alike magnetic pole produced by the >> coil will tend to decrease the overall magnetic flux in the system. > > > >We must also account for the induced pole(s) within the iron plate! > Yes, that is a question only an experiment or a calculation of the formulars can give ! It will be in interesting factor, how the iron plate behaves and the poles which will be induced... But surely the plate will be pulled into the gap ! > >In addition to this, we must remember that the iron plate will induce >eddy currents as it approaches the magnet pole (poles if opposed! See >above.) and this eddy current will follow Lentz's law, and produce a >force that opposes the mechanical force moving the iron plate. > >There will be mechanical resistance to moving the plate with magnets >aiding or opposed. > Yes, but only if the plate is INSIDE the gap ! So make the iron plate small and the pulling in will be much bigger than these small eddy current forces ! Regards, Stefan. > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 18:25:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA30874; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:19:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:19:29 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2BDBD.4FE8@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 21:18:53 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Violation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f-xR83.0.AY7.kGmqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1077 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I had written: > >There will be mechanical resistance to moving the plate with magnets > >aiding or opposed. And Stefan responded: > Yes, but only if the plate is INSIDE the gap ! > So make the iron plate small and the pulling in will > be much bigger than these small eddy current forces ! Why do you say that there will be mechanical resistance only if the plate is inside the gap? This is not true. There will be resistance as the plate enters the gap, and also as it leaves the gap as well. If the plate is stationary, there will be no Eddy currents and no resistance to movement. As soon as the plate cuts flux, there is mechanical resistance. If the plate is made smaller, there will be more direct coupling between the magnet and the back EMF of the coil. As the Eddy current force of the plate drops, the more the coil back EMF plays a role which will exactly counter the net magnetic flux. How do we get around this? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 18:35:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA00714; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:29:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:29:26 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 9 Jan 97 04:27 NZDT X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: LC Tanks X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"vbl4y1.0.yA.3Qmqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1078 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Some time ago (and in another forum), there was an interesting discussion regarding the behaviour of an LC tank in a circuit that looked something like this, and used the interupted field of L1 to contribute an additional charge to capacitor C2: ===== L1 ---------------------/ \-000000 ----- | | | +ve | +ve C1 | C2 - ve --|< ------- -ve | D1 | --------------------------------------- The responses to the original experimenters post seemed to be a little less than adequate with regard to the basic concept, and largely revolved around the energy of the capacitors, in the form of .5 CV^2. Now this has been bothering me for some time, so I'd like to suggest the following thought experiment to members of this list for their comments (or abuse:). Consider the following circuit. S1 L a----X--------OOOOOOO------------b | | | | - | | | | --- X S2 X S3 --- --- C1 | | --- C2 + | | | | | | | | c--------------------------------d Where; C1 & C2 are Capacitors, S1 S2 & S3 are on/off switches, L is an Inductance, and a b c d are circuit reference points. At this point, disregard any resistive or other losses. Assume initially in the above circuit that all switches are open, and an electrical charge is stored in capacitor C1. The electrical charge (Q) contained in the capacitor is observed to be CV Coulombs, and its energy is described as 0.5 CV^2 Joules. The clock is stopped. We now close switch S1, and leave switches S2 and S3 open. The clock is started, and electrical charge commences to migrate from C1 to C2 through the inductor L. Thus an electrical current occurs in the total circuit a,b,d,c. As charge is transferred into C2, an associated magnetic field expands about our inductor L. The clock is stopped. At this point in time, a calculable portion of our charge has been transferred from C1 to C2. If we now examine the voltages across C1 and C2, we find, from Q = CV, that the sum of the charges in the two capacitors is equal to the original charge contained in C1. We now open switch S1, and close switch S2 (S3 is still open). We restart the clock. The magnetic field of our inductor L, (containing energy produced by the charge transfer, in the form of .5LI^2 Joules) now starts to collapse. In doing so, it will try to maintain its initial current at the previous level, and the voltage across it will rise in opposition to the potential that now exists across C2. An electrical current now flows in the circuit, L, b, d, S2. And energy from the magnetic field is forced into capacitor C2 in the form of an electrical charge. The clock is stopped. If we again examine the voltages across C1 and C2 and calculate their charges, we find that the sum of these charges, is now greater than the charge we had in C1 at the start. However, the sum of the energy they contain, in the form of .5LI^2, will be less than we started with in C1 originally. Am I in trouble yet? However, let's start the clock again, leaving the switches exactly the same. As is the habit of an LC circuit, the charge of C2 will try to equalise, and commences to migrate back through our inductor via the circuit b, L, S2, d. An electrical current starts to flow in that circuit. Now, at that point in time when the potential across C2 reaches zero, and the energy of the capacitor (in the form of .5 CV^2) has been transposed into the magnetic field of our inductor L (in the form of .5 LI^2) we again stop the clock. At this point, let's close S3, open S2, and close S1. Start the clock again. The energy from the collapsing magnetic field of our inductor is now compelled to transfer itself into capacitor C1 via the circuit c, S3, L, S1, a. To do so the voltage across the inductor will rise to a level sufficient to maintain its initial current. When the magnetic field has collapsed, stop the clock, and open all the switches. Now let's measure the voltage across C1 and calculate again how much charge it contains. Let's also calculate the energy it now contains in the form of .5 CV^2 Joules. In the absence of a rational explanation to the contrary shall I presume that the obvious conclusion might just be correct? Stuart Rae. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 18:57:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05827; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:52:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:52:18 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:53:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970107213423.1d8f79d6@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Glossary Resent-Message-ID: <"QrfHa.0.yQ1.Wlmqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1079 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >To: freenrg-l@eskamo.com >From: Charles Ford >Subject: Glossary > >Hello: > >I have had some dificulty understanding some of the newsgroup messages. I believe that the cause of this dificulty is some lack in understanding a few words commonly used in all of the phisical sciences. The full understanding of these terms will greatly increase any mans understanding of a dialog in physics, providing the other person is using them properly. Moreover missuse will only fog the understanding, cloud the issues, and bring on the greatly feared namecalling. for example "crackpot". > >FACT: > Known truth that cannot be changed. History, an event that has already happend. > >Facts cannot be changed they just are. Fore example Tesla is dead, he has ben dead for quite some time now and we cannot bring the man back to life. FACT > >THEORY: > Concept that can be demonstrated by example. > >Theory is not nessarly the ending truth of all things. It is just what the current thinking indicates, and may chang tomarow. One may demonstrate an oposing concept. One may also question the compatncy of the thoerorest. > >HYPOTHESIS: > A concept born of current theory and inovation that cannot yet be demonstrated. > >We all hypothisize when forming our belieif of how the universe works. Each of us stands some chance of being absilutly correct, or dead wrong. One must keep an open mind to anothers point of view. he may be the one that is correct. > >FORCE: > That which is capable of accelerating a mass, in total. > >The four legs of my desk apply a force onto the planet pushing. The planet pulls the the desk tward it but the legs prevent movement. No energy, no power, some potental energy shuld a lag break. In america we use the Pound as a unit of force. > >PRESURE: > an amount of force placed aginst a given aria. > >another american example "PSI Pounds per Square Inch". Prety simple. > >POWER: > Action or work in the process of completion. Energy releced over a period of time. > >In electronics we use the Watt as one unit of power. Be sure that there is no power in a 100W lamp. When EMF "Electro Motave Force" is aplied at the correct level, current flows and the lamp lights, disipating 100 Watts. This is a dynamic condition, work IS being done. > >ENERGY: > An amount of work compleated or able to be compleated over a period of time. > >Sounds like double talk to me. What this means is that power and energy are related through time. Energy has ben done or may be done, power is being done. A mesure of energy may be a Watt-second, or this may also be a mesure of potential energy. but is not a mesure of power. > > > >If you look close you will find that things are not always what they seem. This work is not actually looking for free energy. Heck there is free energy everywhare. We are looking for free POWER. > >I hope I havent insulted anyone, and I hope we can all work from the same glossary. It shuld make things go a little smoother. > >Thanks for your attention, and please feel free to correct any errors as this is my point of view, and may be dead wrong. > >Charles Ford >clf@startext.net > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 18:57:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05962; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:52:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:52:49 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:54:05 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970107213517.1d8fcb46@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor. Resent-Message-ID: <"NfIXn.0.1T1.-lmqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1080 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ><with the energy output of e.g. the Finsrud Perpetual Motion machine has >already >put out during all its operation time and you will see, that this >output is much higher than the magnetic energy needed to create the >permanent magnets used in the Finsrud PM. Also the permanet magnets >are not yet run down in this device !>> > >Where do ZPEs come into this? You have no theory as to why magnets are ZPE in >their roots. >-Adam Grossman > > Gentelmen: I have some of my own half baked idias about whare this energy is coming from. If the device finds a cycle that resenates whith the ambiant noise existing in the earth's EM field, it could hook into and run exclusivaly from this vast energy resource. It could even produce a usable amount of output power. This energy does not come from any "MAGIC" but exists in the relm of CONVENTIONAL PHYSICS. and is restored by everyday use of conventional electrical power, underground nuke tests, meterological activity.... Charles Ford. clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 19:00:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA06245; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:54:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 18:54:44 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:55:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970107213639.1d8f783c@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Magnetic energy Resent-Message-ID: <"9OD181.0.UX1.onmqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1081 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:03 PM 1/5/97 -0600, you wrote: > > Lots of discussion here about where the energy that is behind the force that a >magnet exerts comes from. I thought up a simple expermient that someone (or many >someones!) could try: > > Get a big pair of 'ring' magnets. Put a dowel through their centers with their >poles opposing and mount this dowel on a base to keep it pointed up. The top >magnet should 'float', held up by the magnetic field between the two. Now, measure >the height of the top magnet once a week to see if/when it starts floating lower >and lower. Will it? If so, is one magnet being demagnetized? which one? both? >by how much? How much energy is expended holding up the floating magnet? > > --Zachary > COOL: I am sure that when using the same type of magnet for both magnets in this test one could wait forever and find no change. 1. This expariment uses a static condition, there is no use of power or reliese of energy here. 2. The "Reluctive Threshold" of a magnetic material is always greater then the maximum charge, therefore whithout an external shock or a focusing of flux two simular magnets cannot de-magnetize each other. I still dont see any ZPE. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 19:43:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA16614; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:40:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:40:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107194016.0077ce50@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:40:17 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ----> Eddy currents Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"UzvNZ1.0.K34.OSnqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1082 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: YES, I agree that the eddy currents induced in the iron plate will OPPOSE any movement of the iron plate in respect to the permanent magnet HOWEVER the eddy currents are almost completely eliminated by rendering the magnetic shield (iron plate) electrically nonconductive. The electrically nonconductive material (yet still highly ferromagnetic) PREVENTS the eddy currents from circulating. This is the reason why in my original post in December 1996, I suggested using powdered iron (perhaps mixed with epoxy resin), laminated material or any commercial ferrite to form the magnetic shield. The destruction of eddy currents is the major reason for existence of the so called "ferrites". Almost all conventional motors and inductors use some form of laminated or powdered cores to accomplish just this. Without the suppression of eddy currents most of the CONVENTIONAL electromechanical devices (like motors), would NOT work. I used the "iron plate" in my writings instead of "composite or ferrite magnetic core/shield" since I prefer simplicity in my examples and setups. I bet there are quite a few people on this listserv that don't even know what "ferrite" is, I didn't want to exclude them from understanding my posts. I reply that the eddy current phenomenon is Real, BUT quite easily suppressed to almost nonexistence in a this design using common eddy-busting engineering techniques. Epitaxy At 07:46 PM 1/7/97 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote: >Hi Greg. > >In the posts on vortex-l titled "Could somebody criticize this..." and >"Liag, Ecklin demystyfied" written by Epitaxy in December 1996, several >interesting principles were described. >we must remember that the iron plate will induce >eddy currents as it approaches the magnet pole (poles if opposed! See >above.) and this eddy current will follow Lentz's law, and produce a >force that opposes the mechanical force moving the iron plate. > >There will be mechanical resistance to moving the plate with magnets >aiding or opposed. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 19:45:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA16806; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:40:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:40:57 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107194057.0077ec70@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:40:58 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Different type of magnetism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"rgcbn2.0.D64.3Tnqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1083 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MY REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW At 07:46 PM 1/7/97 +0000, you wrote: >warlord wrote: > >> I understand your above statement in this way: The alike pole produced by >> the coil will weaken the attraction of the iron plate to the permanent >> magnet. (would this happen because the flux from PM would be weakened by >> the opposing flux from the coil) > >The superposition of magnetic flux is a bit different than this. Please elaborate on this. >> The above interpretation could be extended to say that if the coil produces >> the same magnetic flux intensity as the PM (while the coil is geometrically >> opposing the PM, forming the gap) the fields of the coil & PM will combine >> exactly in the midpoint (the gap) in such a way that the iron plate will not >> experience any attraction into the gap between the magnet and the coil or at >> least weaken the attraction considerably. > >This is not correct. How so. Could you please provide a correct interpretation of the above statement. >> For all practical purposes the coil can be SUBSTITUTED by a PM to produce >> the alike magnetic pole. > >False. Do you propose that the magnetic field produced by the coil is a DIFFERENT TYPE OF MAGNETISM than the one produced by a permanent magnet. (Assuming shorted superconductive coil.) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 19:45:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA17166; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:41:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:41:54 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107194142.0077fdb0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:41:43 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Accelerating Turntable Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"5yLOp3.0.zB4.yTnqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1084 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In what way is the experiment flawed ? This experiment (using 2 permanent magnets and an iron plate) is extremely simple and anyone can perform it on the kitchen table to verify the results. The purpose of this experiment is to demonstrate that 2 equal opposed permanent magnets ( i.e. S-S configuration) with a small gap between them WILL pull in the iron plate into that gap (until the plate is centered in the gap) STRONGER than only ONE non-opposed permanent magnet. I have verified the above to NOT be an illusion. I even mounted the iron plate on a large circular turn-table with the plate passing between these two opposed permanent magnets. The plate IS attracted into the gap between the magnets on approach, THEN I neutralized one of the magnets by different means (shattering, rapid heating, moving the magnet rapidly away,...etc.) when the plate is exactly centered in the gap. The net result of the above experiment was the CONSTANT ACCELERATION of the turntable (with the iron plate mounted on it) EACH time the plate was attracted into the gap and then departed the gap with one magnet neutralized. The acceleration is not small and quite visible. This proves that the 2 opposing magnets attract the iron plate into the gap STRONGER than one non-opposed magnet. I SAW THE TURNTABLE SPINNING FASTER AND FASTER MYSELF. Anybody can repeat this experiment using the rapid removal of one of the magnets as the plate passes the symmetry point between the magnets (gap) This is the reason why I proposed using a switchable coil to achieve a similar type of self accelerating effect. (Switching off a coil is much simpler than shattering a magnet :) Please look up my post from December 1996 for more details or privately email me for a copy. At 07:46 PM 1/7/97 +0000, you wrote: >> ...I have experimentally verified that this is incorrect, the iron plate IS >> pulled into the gap between to opposing permanent magnets. (gap has to >> small enough) >> and will stop experiencing attraction only exactly in the midpoint of the >> gap, which would happen anyway even the PM was not opposed by another. >> >> Furthermore the iron plate is pulled into the gap between two opposing >> magnets STRONGER than to one non-opposed magnet. !!! ***** VERY IMPORTANT >> ***** >> >> The above simple experiment easily done with two permanent magnets and an >> iron plate proves that opposing magnetic fluxes do NOT decrease the >> attraction of the metal plate as you suggested. >This experiment is flawed, and is misleading. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 19:47:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA17307; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:42:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 19:42:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107194244.0077d150@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:42:45 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Flux superposition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"zH9yi3.0.8E4.sUnqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1085 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Back up. "opposed than aiding" was not what I was writing about or considering. It should have been "..2 PM opposed than 1 PM non-opposed..." (only one PM present) In this configuration I experimentally verified that two opposing magnets INDEED attract the plate stronger than only one magnet. (Look: Re: Lenz Law Violation ---> Accelerating Turntable) PM = permanent magnet (for these who don't know) The whole purpose of me bringing up the flux superposition issue is to object to Greg Watson's objection that the induced magnetic pole in the coil (look in my December 1996 post on vorex-l) will weaken the attraction of the iron plate by reducing total system flux. Do you also disagree with Greg Watson's objection ? >Two opposed permanent magnets with a small gap do not reduce magnetic >flux between them in the way this experiment assumes. > >The magnetic flux between the permanent magnets will become highly >distorted, and the geometery of the magnetic lines of flux will change >in such a way that they do not cross one another. > >The total flux between opposed magnets, in the small gap is equal to the >total flux if the magnets were aiding, but the flux density, or lines >per centimeter, is much higher due to the field geometery distortions. > >This can make it appear that the iron plate is more strongly attracted >to the gap with magnets opposed than aiding. >> If you reply to this message please use simple words and short sentences, >> since English is not my first language. (I had problems with some of your >> big words and had to ask a friend for help). >> >> > >> >NNNNNSSSSS SSSSSNNNNN >> > I >> > I >> > I >> > I >> > I >> > >> >> S = South Pole of a permanent magnet >> N = North Pole of a permanent magnet >> I = Iron plate (moving up but restricted sideways) > >Your English is perfectly clear! > >If you use long, bar magnets, and place a Gaussmeter over the N pole at >either end of your example, you will note that the field strenght of the >magnet does not reduce below its normal value as the second magnet is >brought into opposition. > >This shows that the magnetic field between opposed magnets is not >'eliminated' as assumed by the description of the attractive force on an >iron plate. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 20:34:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA00577; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:32:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:32:03 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107203212.00953fb4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 20:32:14 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz law harnessing... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"nPaYd.0.t8.1Doqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1086 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW At 02:31 AM 1/8/97 +0100, you wrote: >Yes, I agree fully ! I also got email from Epitaxy and he has tried >it using a hall sensor and has done several experiments >with it. > >I bet, this design can really harness the Lenz Law ! >The only big question is: > >When the iron plate is in the middle of the gap, you have to open >the circuit of the coil and to "flush" all its magnetic energy >via a fluorescent bulb, connected in parallel to the coil (like in a Newman >machine) >, to get rid of the stored magnetic energy inside the coil very quickly, >so the iron plate is not hold inside the midddle of the gap. >The question is then: Will the "flushing" of the magnetic energy >in maybe a few mikroseconds produce a back drag magnetic field for >the iron plate to brake its motion and thus all kinetic energy >won in pulling the iron plate into the gap will be lost ??? >That is the big question ! THE TIMING ISSUE Yes the final answer would be experimental. Since this is email I will add more comments on this since emailing physical objects is not possible yet. The electric current accumulated in the coil during the approach phase indeed will cause an undesirable back drag on the departing plate from the gap, by creating an alike magnetic pole at the coil. However the departing plate is not very strongly attracted back into the gap before the trailing edge of the plate leaves the gap. (attraction vs. position of the plate has a parabolic relationship) This means that the coil has a relatively long time to discharge before the remaining current starts having the maximum back drag attraction when the trailing edge of the plate starts leaving the gap (this time is straight proportional to the width of the plate (not thickness)) Furthermore discharging the current in the coil (preferably into useful load) at the high voltage DOES NOT increase the strength of the magnetic pole generated by the coil. Some people wrote to me that if you discharge a coil 1000 times faster than charging the coil, 1000 more magnetic intensity will be produced for this short time according to conservation of energy - THIS IS VERY WRONG ! Now that we have the charge/discharge times vs. magnetic field intensity out of the way, it can be easily seen that the 1 millisecond back drag on the departing plate from the gap happens at the same magnetic intensity as the forward 1 second attraction ( varying attraction of the plate aside). Considering the inertia of the plate the 1 second attraction will give the plate considerably more momentum than the 1 millisecond back drag will take away. On top of that we have the nonlinearity of attraction vs. plate position which I just described above and the constant dissipation of energy in the load and coil resistance (by the way, this decreases the forward attraction) Somebody suggested advancing the coil discharge time to eliminate the backdrag completely, but this would also decrease the forward attraction accordingly. >>For all practical purposes the coil can be SUBSTITUTED by a PM to produce >>the alike magnetic pole. >> >>I have experimentally verified that this is incorrect, the iron plate IS >>pulled into the gap between to opposing permanent magnets. (gap has to >>small enough) >>and will stop experiencing attraction only exactly in the midpoint of the >>gap, which would happen anyway even the PM was not opposed by another. >> >>Furthermore the iron plate is pulled into the gap between two opposing >>magnets STRONGER than to one non-opposed magnet. !!! ***** VERY IMPORTANT >>***** >> >That is an interesting statement ! Why is it this way ? Yes it is interesting. Please try the accelerating turntable experiment I described on vortex-l today to witness this phenomenon in action. I will speculate that the iron plate acts as a field cleaver that is attracted to each magnetic pole individually despite the poles are opposing each other. You must see it to believe it. >>The above simple experiment easily done with two permanent magnets and an >>iron plate proves that opposing magnetic fluxes do NOT decrease the >>attraction of the metal plate as you suggested. >> >> If you reply to this message please use simple words and short sentences, >>since English is not my first language. (I had problems with some of your >>big words and had to ask a friend for help). >> >> >>> >>>NNNNNSSSSS SSSSSNNNNN >>> I >>> I >>> I >>> I >>> I >>> >> >>S = South Pole of a permanent magnet >>N = North Pole of a permanent magnet >>I = Iron plate (moving up but restricted sideways) >> >Epitaxy, did you invent this ? >If this will take off, you could get the Nobel Price ! >:) No I just put other peoples ideas together. I wouldn't want the hassles connected with Nobel Prize, I would rather see a working model on everybody' kitchen table. >Maybe there is still any other configuration how to harness >the Lenz Law in an easier way and to get rotation ? >To produce a motor with the above configuration is pretty >difficult? I am sure that there other ways of applying this principle. Horace Heffner suggested using pendulum, but it is hard (for me) to make rigid enough pendulum with no sideways motion. I don't think the rotary design is difficult. It would be similar to Bedini's G-Field generator. I like the rotary design because rotary motion is convenient >Maybe one could use the iron plate to produce a reciprocationg motor >for e.g. a pump ??? >So the iron plate would have to be placed between 2 springs and >will be pulled in , going over the middle, and getting pulled >back in again from the other side, while the coil is controlled >to be shorted and opened by a commutator which is connected mechanically >to the moving iron plate ! > >How about this ? > >Please let me know any comments about this proposal ! I believe that this pump would work. The commutator would be best fired by a small sensor coil that would have a current induced in it in one direction as the plate approaches and other direction as the plate departs (according to the Lenz law). If you sensed the current from this small sensor coil and had the main drive coil closed only when the current from the sensor coil flows in one of the directions, this would eliminate any mechanical switches or optical sensors. You really need to make your mechanical support rigid enough so the plate is not attracted sideways to the permanent magnet as you turn of the coil. Also because of the destructive eddy currents you should not really use an iron plate but a powdered or laminated plate (i.e. powdered iron mixed with epoxy resin or commercial ferrite) >Regards, Stefan. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de >Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de >Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de >My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 21:04:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA08055; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:02:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:02:58 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2E43A.430@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:03:06 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Accelerating Turntable References: <3.0.32.19970107194142.0077fdb0@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ttPVo1.0.kz1._foqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1087 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: epitaxy wrote: > > In what way is the experiment flawed ? > > This experiment (using 2 permanent magnets and an iron plate) is extremely > simple and anyone can perform it on the kitchen table to verify the results. > > The purpose of this experiment is to demonstrate that 2 equal opposed > permanent magnets ( i.e. S-S configuration) with a small gap between them > WILL pull in the iron plate into that gap (until the plate is centered in > the gap) STRONGER than only ONE non-opposed permanent magnet. There is more flux with two magnets, even if opposed. > I have verified the above to NOT be an illusion. I even mounted the iron > plate on a large circular turn-table with the plate passing between these > two opposed permanent magnets. The plate IS attracted into the gap between > the magnets on approach, THEN I neutralized one of the magnets by > different means (shattering, rapid heating, moving the magnet rapidly > away,...etc.) when the plate is exactly centered in the gap. You are adding energy by altering the magnetic flux. > The net result of the above experiment was the CONSTANT ACCELERATION of the > turntable (with the iron plate mounted on it) EACH time the plate was > attracted into the gap and then departed the gap with one magnet > neutralized. The acceleration is not small and quite visible. > > This proves that the 2 opposing magnets attract the iron plate into the gap > STRONGER than one non-opposed magnet. > > I SAW THE TURNTABLE SPINNING FASTER AND FASTER MYSELF. > > Anybody can repeat this experiment using the rapid removal of one of the > magnets as the plate passes the symmetry point between the magnets (gap) Rapid removal = energy added to the turntable. > This is the reason why I proposed using a switchable coil to achieve a > similar type of self accelerating effect. (Switching off a coil is much > simpler than shattering a magnet :) Switching off a coil causes it's flux to collapse, and induce currents in nearby conductors. It does not destroy that flux. Placing opposed magnet faces in close proximity does not reduce the total magnetic flux of the two magnets (while stationary!). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 21:08:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA09519; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:05:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:05:50 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:07:02 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Lenz's Law Resent-Message-ID: <"1PN413.0.WK2.hioqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1088 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Lenz's Law states that 'the current induced in a circuit due to a change in the magnetic flux through it or to its motion in a magnetic field is so directed as to oppose the change in flux or to exert a mechanical force opposing the motion. "Lenz's Law is simply an observation of this cumulative effect of the gyroscopic-particle-spin (comprising the current produced) being at right angles to the spin of the gyroscopic particles remaining in the magnetic field. "How does one explain the effect of Lenz's Law? "Simple. If a proper*, atom-oriented material (with the proper atomic [geometric] design) was placed within a magnetic field of gyroscopic-action-particles (which move at C and spin at C) in a configuration which caused current (gyroscopic particles) to flow, then it would be necessary to physically secure the proper, atom-oriented material within the Unobvious Magnetic Force Field. If not secured, then the proper, atom-oriented material would be physically repelled and the energy transfer of gyroscopic particles would cease. "Lenz's Law was only an observation which in fact described those gyroscopic particles deflected from a magnetic field. Because such deflection occurs, it can be concluded that the spin of such gyroscopic particles is at right angles to the spin of the gyroscopic particles which remain within and comprise the magnetic field itself. "Such physical repulsion of the proper, atom-oriented material is in accordance with Newton's Law of Action and Reaction." "*By the term 'proper,' I am referring to a mechanical understanding (of both the motion of the gyroscopic particles comprising a given electromagnetic field surrounding a magnet and the motion of the gyroscopic particles within the atoms of the proper material) which permits one to construct an energy machine designed for the efficient utilization of the maximum number of gyroscopic particles existing within all interacting systems. "In addition, the specific atomic structure (physical orientation) of the energy machine's materials -- such as the proper material -- will differ from element to element or compounds in terms of how such varying atomic structures (containing billions of gyroscopic particles) will deflect exterior gyroscopic particles impinging upon the gyroscopic particles contained within such atomic structures." --- Joseph Newman Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 21:22:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA12367; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:17:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:17:44 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2E768.57F@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:16:40 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Different type of magnetism References: <3.0.32.19970107194057.0077ec70@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yvrmv2.0.513.rtoqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1089 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: epitaxy wrote: > > MY REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW > > At 07:46 PM 1/7/97 +0000, you wrote: > >warlord wrote: > > > >> I understand your above statement in this way: The alike pole produced by > >> the coil will weaken the attraction of the iron plate to the permanent > >> magnet. (would this happen because the flux from PM would be weakened by > >> the opposing flux from the coil) > > > >The superposition of magnetic flux is a bit different than this. > > Please elaborate on this. The flux from the coil will interact with the net flux of the plate and the magnet, while the flux from the magnet will also interact with the total flux of the other components. The idea (below) that there is this point at which the flux from the coil and magnet will combine at the center of the gap and prevent the plate from experence interaction is flawed. > > >> The above interpretation could be extended to say that if the coil produces > >> the same magnetic flux intensity as the PM (while the coil is geometrically > >> opposing the PM, forming the gap) the fields of the coil & PM will combine > >> exactly in the midpoint (the gap) in such a way that the iron plate will > not > >> experience any attraction into the gap between the magnet and the coil > or at > >> least weaken the attraction considerably. > > > >This is not correct. > > How so. Could you please provide a correct interpretation of the above > statement. > > >> For all practical purposes the coil can be SUBSTITUTED by a PM to produce > >> the alike magnetic pole. > > > >False. > > Do you propose that the magnetic field produced by the coil is a DIFFERENT > TYPE OF MAGNETISM than the one produced by a permanent magnet. (Assuming > shorted superconductive coil.) Permanent magnets and coils have the same kind of fields, but when a magnet induces a counter megnetic field in a coil, there is a change in phase which is present in dynamic systems, but absent with two magnets. In a dynamic system where the magnet induces the secondary field in the coil due to the action of the plate, the induced field will be totally different than would be the case with a magnet (a constant source, as opposed to a dynamic one). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 21:31:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA15106; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:28:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:28:09 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2E9FE.53FC@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:27:42 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ----> Eddy currents References: <3.0.32.19970107194016.0077ce50@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UjPLi2.0.uh3.c1pqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1090 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: epitaxy wrote: > > YES, I agree that the eddy currents induced in the iron plate will OPPOSE > any movement of the iron plate in respect to the permanent magnet > > HOWEVER the eddy currents are almost completely eliminated by rendering the > magnetic shield (iron plate) electrically nonconductive. Sadly, it's the eddy currents, and their subsequent production of heat that shields the magnetic field. Materials such as ferrite which suppress eddy currents also saturate quickly for this same reason. > The electrically nonconductive material (yet still highly ferromagnetic) > PREVENTS the eddy currents from circulating. This is the reason why in my > original post in December 1996, I suggested using powdered iron (perhaps > mixed with epoxy resin), laminated material or any commercial ferrite to > form the magnetic shield. > > The destruction of eddy currents is the major reason for existence of the > so called "ferrites". Almost all conventional motors and inductors use > some form of laminated or powdered cores to accomplish just this. Without > the suppression of eddy currents most of the CONVENTIONAL electromechanical > devices (like motors), would NOT work. I think this is a bit over-stated. Eddy currents are not suppressed, but kept to a practical minimum. Without Eddy currents, all transformers would be air core! > I used the "iron plate" in my writings instead of "composite or ferrite > magnetic core/shield" since I prefer simplicity in my examples and setups. > I bet there are quite a few people on this listserv that don't even know > what "ferrite" is, I didn't want to exclude them from understanding my posts. > > I reply that the eddy current phenomenon is Real, BUT quite easily > suppressed to almost nonexistence in a this design using common > eddy-busting engineering techniques. > > Epitaxy You may suppress it all that is possible, but you must include it in the interactions of the coil and magnet, and also that the coil and second magnet are not at all interchangable in this case. I'm willing to be wrong, so I reccomend that you produce a prototype, and ask for assistance from the list server in reccomending testing proceedures to verify the performance of the real system. Lets see what happens. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 21:32:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA15658; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:31:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:31:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32D2EACD.6CF4@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:31:09 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..... Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"M1kVK3.0.Uq3.O4pqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1091 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Received: from localhost (localhost) by maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with internal id XAA17284; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:53:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:53:17 -0500 (EST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199701080453.XAA17284@maildeliver0.tiac.net> To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="XAA17284.852699197/maildeliver0.tiac.net" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) This is a MIME-encapsulated message --XAA17284.852699197/maildeliver0.tiac.net The original message was received at Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:53:15 -0500 (EST) from mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mx1.eskimo.com.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown --XAA17284.852699197/maildeliver0.tiac.net Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; maildeliver0.tiac.net Received-From-MTA: dns; mailnfs0.tiac.net Arrival-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:53:15 -0500 (EST) Final-Recipient: rfc822; frenrg-l@eskimo.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Remote-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 ... User unknown Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:53:17 -0500 (EST) --XAA17284.852699197/maildeliver0.tiac.net Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: bshannon@tiac.net Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13246 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:53:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from bshannon.tiac.net (bshannon.tiac.net [206.119.135.211]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with SMTP id XAA05308 for ; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:53:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32D2E1FB.4D9F@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:53:31 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: frenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Epitaxy wrote: > Back up. "opposed than aiding" was not what I was writing about or > considering. > > It should have been "..2 PM opposed than 1 PM non-opposed..." (only one PM > present) > In this configuration I experimentally verified that two opposing magnets > INDEED attract the plate stronger than only one magnet. (Look: Re: Lenz > Law Violation ---> Accelerating Turntable) I stand corrected. I have not read the thread from vortex-l. Are you of the opinion that the flux density in the small gap between two opposed magnets is higher or lower than that of a single magnet? > > PM = permanent magnet (for these who don't know) > > The whole purpose of me bringing up the flux superposition issue is to > object to Greg Watson's objection that the induced magnetic pole in the > coil (look in my December 1996 post on vorex-l) will weaken the attraction > of the iron plate by reducing total system flux. > > Do you also disagree with Greg Watson's objection ? Not exactly. It appears that the experiment assumes that there is less magnetic flux in the gap between opposed magnet faces, as if the flux undergoes vector superposition. The total flux in the gap is greater than with a single magnet, there are just two, uncrossing sets of flux, one from each magnet. You can push and distort the field of one with another, but you cannot reduce the total flux of the two. --XAA17284.852699197/maildeliver0.tiac.net-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 22:49:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA32624; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:48:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:48:29 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107224822.00962340@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:48:24 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Accelerating Turntable + coil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"ZHVxV1.0.Nz7.uCqqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1092 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Finally some decent criticism is happening here. Thank you BTW: Please forgive me if I seem to be repeating these obvious matters (i.e. ferrites, eddy currents, etc.). I do NOT dot this for your sake, but for other people not familiar with some of the concepts that might be reading this. THE REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW At 12:03 AM 1/8/97 +0000, you wrote: >epitaxy wrote: >> >> In what way is the experiment flawed ? >> >> This experiment (using 2 permanent magnets and an iron plate) is extremely >> simple and anyone can perform it on the kitchen table to verify the results. >> >> The purpose of this experiment is to demonstrate that 2 equal opposed >> permanent magnets ( i.e. S-S configuration) with a small gap between them >> WILL pull in the iron plate into that gap (until the plate is centered in >> the gap) STRONGER than only ONE non-opposed permanent magnet. > >There is more flux with two magnets, even if opposed. This is good news. This negates Greg Watson's objections which were my original reason for raising this issue of flux superposition. >> I have verified the above to NOT be an illusion. I even mounted the iron >> plate on a large circular turn-table with the plate passing between these >> two opposed permanent magnets. The plate IS attracted into the gap between >> the magnets on approach, THEN I neutralized one of the magnets by >> different means (shattering, rapid heating, moving the magnet rapidly >> away,...etc.) when the plate is exactly centered in the gap. >You are adding energy by altering the magnetic flux. The sole purpose of this experiment was to demonstrate that two opposing poles attract the plate into the gap STRONGER then one non-opposed pole. (I stated this in my original December 1996 post) This experiment (using two permanent magnets) does NOT exhibit any overunity effect with the Permanent Magnets alone. *** VERY IMPORTANT *** The situation changes when we substitute on of the PM with a solenoid coil, since the alteration of the magnetic flux (ideally done by switching off the coil) DOES NOT cost any energy. In other words: energy is added (multiplied) WITHOUT the necessity of additional energy input. Lenz law once our enemy becomes a friend . In the case of permanent magnets alone, this flux alteration could be done only once since one of the permanent magnets can be destroyed only ONCE. If a coil is substituted for one of the magnets an electric current will be induced in it generating an alike magnetic pole (just like PM) for FREE, every time the iron plate (ferrite shield, magnetic gate...) approaches the gap. *** VERY IMPORTANT *** The energy stored in this coil can be quickly and usefully dissipated analogously to the shattering of the permanent magnet to prevent the back attraction of departing plate with the significant difference that this process can be done REPEATEDLY with no energy input. The proper timing of this disposal of energy would be the key to creating asymmetrical magnetic attraction on the plate which would create OVERUNITY effect. t=L/R, etc... >> The net result of the above experiment was the CONSTANT ACCELERATION of the >> turntable (with the iron plate mounted on it) EACH time the plate was >> attracted into the gap and then departed the gap with one magnet >> neutralized. The acceleration is not small and quite visible. >> >> This proves that the 2 opposing magnets attract the iron plate into the gap >> STRONGER than one non-opposed magnet. >> >> I SAW THE TURNTABLE SPINNING FASTER AND FASTER MYSELF. >> >> Anybody can repeat this experiment using the rapid removal of one of the >> magnets as the plate passes the symmetry point between the magnets (gap) >Rapid removal = energy added to the turntable. The sole purpose of this experiment was to demonstrate that two opposing poles attract the plate into the gap STRONGER then one non-opposed pole NOT to exhibit any overunity effect with the PM alone. *** VERY IMPORTANT *** ACTUALLY, I like to view the rapid removal of the magnet (by shattering, rapid heating, moving...) as REMOVING undesirable energy from the system and the action of putting (replacing) a new magnet into the place of an old one, as ADDING energy. When the coil is substituted for one of the permanent magnets, the REMOVING of the energy becomes very easy and can be done repeatedly without adding any additional external energy. Opening the coil windings does NOT cost any energy. (disregarding small HV switch contact attraction) > >> This is the reason why I proposed using a switchable coil to achieve a >> similar type of self accelerating effect. (Switching off a coil is much >> simpler than shattering a magnet :) > >Switching off a coil causes it's flux to collapse, and induce currents >in nearby conductors. It does not destroy that flux. Placing opposed >magnet faces in close proximity does not reduce the total magnetic flux >of the two magnets (while stationary!). I agree that switching off the coil causes the flux to collapse. This is how the back attraction of the plate into the gap between the magnetic poles is neutralized. Analogously to destroying one of the PM in the experiment above. I understand, the induced currents in nearby conductors, as eddy currents. As I mentioned in my previous post the eddy currents are easily dealt with by using nonconductive magnetic materials in place of the iron plate (that is the principle reason why ferrites exist) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 22:59:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA03673; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:58:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:58:44 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107225858.0095cdd0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:59:00 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"8VjDu3.0.Gv.ZMqqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1093 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW. >Epitaxy wrote: > >> Back up. "opposed than aiding" was not what I was writing about or >> considering. >> >> It should have been "..2 PM opposed than 1 PM non-opposed..." (only one PM >> present) >> In this configuration I experimentally verified that two opposing magnets >> INDEED attract the plate stronger than only one magnet. (Look: Re: Lenz >> Law Violation ---> Accelerating Turntable) > >I stand corrected. I have not read the thread from vortex-l. > >Are you of the opinion that the flux density in the small gap between >two opposed magnets is higher or lower than that of a single magnet? I really am not sure, but I know that practically the two opposed magnets will attract the plate stronger than one non-opposed magnet. I think the flux density is higher and Greg Watson seems to think that the opposing poles cancel each other. I understand that the field lines in the gap between two S-S PMs would be very distorted. I do not grasp this issue fully and that is why I made all of those experiments with the attraction of the metal plate. I hope that you and Greg Watson will be able to shed some more theoretical light on what is happening in this setup >> PM = permanent magnet (for these who don't know) >It appears that the experiment assumes that there is less magnetic flux >in the gap between opposed magnet faces, as if the flux undergoes vector >superposition. > >The total flux in the gap is greater than with a single magnet, there >are just two, uncrossing sets of flux, one from each magnet. You can >push and distort the field of one with another, but you cannot reduce >the total flux of the two. That's good news. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 23:18:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA08910; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:17:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:17:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107231721.00961e84@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:17:22 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ----> Eddy currents Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"Y3nk03.0.-A2.qdqqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1094 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:27 AM 1/8/97 +0000, you wrote: >epitaxy wrote: >> >> YES, I agree that the eddy currents induced in the iron plate will OPPOSE >> any movement of the iron plate in respect to the permanent magnet >> >> HOWEVER the eddy currents are almost completely eliminated by rendering the >> magnetic shield (iron plate) electrically nonconductive. >Sadly, it's the eddy currents, and their subsequent production of heat >that shields the magnetic field. Materials such as ferrite which >suppress eddy currents also saturate quickly for this same reason. What about the alignment of the macromolecular magnetic domains in a ferromagnetic material ? What about electron orbital and spin alignment ? >> The electrically nonconductive material (yet still highly ferromagnetic) >> PREVENTS the eddy currents from circulating. This is the reason why in my >> original post in December 1996, I suggested using powdered iron (perhaps >> mixed with epoxy resin), laminated material or any commercial ferrite to >> form the magnetic shield. >> >> The destruction of eddy currents is the major reason for existence of the >> so called "ferrites". Almost all conventional motors and inductors use >> some form of laminated or powdered cores to accomplish just this. Without >> the suppression of eddy currents most of the CONVENTIONAL electromechanical >> devices (like motors), would NOT work. > >I think this is a bit over-stated. Eddy currents are not suppressed, >but kept to a practical minimum. Without Eddy currents, all >transformers would be air core! I agree, this is a bit overstated. I thought that the word "suppressed" is not the same as "eliminated". What about a vacuum core transformers. I know from experience that vacuum transformers would work, albeit not as well. Eddy currents are not possible in vacuum, and as far as I can tell if the air is not ionized it will not support eddy currents either. Yet air core transformers do work everyday. >> I used the "iron plate" in my writings instead of "composite or ferrite >> magnetic core/shield" since I prefer simplicity in my examples and setups. >> I bet there are quite a few people on this listserv that don't even know >> what "ferrite" is, I didn't want to exclude them from understanding my posts. >> >> I reply that the eddy current phenomenon is Real, BUT quite easily >> suppressed to almost nonexistence in a this design using common >> eddy-busting engineering techniques. >> >> Epitaxy > >You may suppress it all that is possible, but you must include it in the >interactions of the coil and magnet, and also that the coil and second >magnet are not at all interchangable in this case. Yes they are not interchangeable dynamically (when ther is a relative movement), but they are statically. >I'm willing to be wrong, so I reccomend that you produce a prototype, >and ask for assistance from the list server in reccomending testing >proceedures to verify the performance of the real system. I am also willing to be wrong. This is the reason why I am running it through your minds so you can maybe point out some obvious flaws in my reasoning before I commit to building a working prototype. So far your statement that the magnetic field shielding effect in ferromagnetic material (such as iron) is totally dependent on the eddy currents is the only valid objection I have read. (BTW: Could you verify this and reply) And a working prototype is the ultimate proof !!! >Lets see what happens. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 23:45:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA17639; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:43:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:43:49 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970107234342.0077ce98@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:43:45 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Different type of magnetism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"97sFp1.0.-H4.i0rqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1095 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >In the posts on vortex-l titled "Could somebody criticize this..." and >"Liag, Ecklin demystyfied" written by Epitaxy in December 1996, several >interesting principles were described. I agree that the dynamic interaction is different with an inductor and a permanent magnet. In my analysis I have been referring to so called finite point analysis where the time is hypothetically frozen in discrete intervals in order to discreetly illustrate the behavior of this electromechanical circuit. In this pseudo static case I maintain that the coil and PM are interchangeable. This type of approach is what prompted me to perform the turntable experiment. 1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the PM (caused by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If not - why not ? 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz law, it will produce a magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate shields the coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap) ? If not - why not ? 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent magnets in the turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of undesirable eddy currents in the plate. BTW: Do you enjoy this sort of thing ? At 12:16 AM 1/8/97 +0000, you wrote: >Permanent magnets and coils have the same kind of fields, but when a >magnet induces a counter megnetic field in a coil, there is a change in >phase which is present in dynamic systems, but absent with two magnets. > >In a dynamic system where the magnet induces the secondary field in the >coil due to the action of the plate, the induced field will be totally >different than would be the case with a magnet (a constant source, as >opposed to a dynamic one). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 7 23:45:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA18011; Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:44:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:44:41 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 23:16:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701080716.XAA18923@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Sweet and Swisss Testatika Resent-Message-ID: <"vYSXV2.0.KP4.c1rqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1096 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The capacitor diode that they will not let anyone inspect is the secret to the device. It is a series, resonant capacitor/inductor, that is doped with radium, with series inductors wound over each capacitor/inductor, the series, capacitor/inductors are a tuned tank, based upon the resonant frequency of the wire, which is a high frequency, while the series inductors wound over them are tuned to sixty cycles. This is a nuclear battery. It gets its power from the radioactive decay of radium chloride. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 00:15:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA26729; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:14:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:14:22 -0800 Message-ID: <32D3581B.4C47@plix.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:17:31 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bshannon@tiac.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <32D2A194.1C7F@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VWGcm3.0.UX6.RTrqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1097 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Bob Dorman wrote: > > > You are describing my LIAG! > > I don't think magnets decrease in power just from being used (except the > > cheaper iron magnets, which demagnitize easily). Take a magneto on a > > lawnmower, for instance. The permanant magnet in the flywheel zips past > > the spark coil millions of times in the course of its use, yet does not > > become demagnitized. The engine would probably fail long before the > > flywheel magnet. > > --Bob Dorman > > The permanent magnets in a magneto do depolarize. Largly this is due to > heat rather than by the back EMF of the spark coil however. I can accept that. > Aircraft > magnetos ($$$!) have these magents replaced as a matter of course after > a fixed number of hours of operation. > > Why do you state that they are not demagnetized? > > The energy of each spark produced by the magneto comes fully from the > mechanical energy turning the magneto. This can be confirmed by > emperical methods, so we dont need to wonder if the textbooks might be > wrong about why, we can simply say that it is, right up to the point > where someone (you?) proves otherwise. > If this is true, and I am not saying it isn't in the case of a magneto, that the energy drain on the system (i.e., the spark) is supplied by the mechanical rotation produced by the engine and NOT by the magnet, itself, then why should there be cause for the magnet to be depleted, other than from overheating as you mentioned, due likely to conduction from other friction-produced sources or engine heat. That is, why should the magnet be depleted merely because its lines of fource are being cut by an electrically loaded coil if the magnet is not supplying energy to the system? Therefore, I don't believe the magnet does get depleted as a result of it being "used" [other than non-electromagnetic related causes like heat]. > So, if more mechanical energy is used by the magneto (due to internal > loss) than is delivered by the spark, Since the magneto is less than 100% efficient, the difference is an energy conversion loss. > where is any energy that is attributed to the field of the magnet? > In the case of the magneto, I don't believe there would be any usable energy attributed to the field of the magnet. > This is true for all magnetic generators with moving parts, be thay > coil, magnet, coil and magnet, flux gate only, flux gate and coil, flux > gate and magnet, or what have you. Simply fixing the coil and magnet > will not yeild a generator that violates this rule. I don't know that I can fully accept that no configuration of magnets and coils and shields in a generator could "violate this rule." > > If your LIAG device operates in the way RdM asked about, then you must > understand why 'conventional wisdom' will think that the device is not > over unity, and therefore will not self run. > > Does your LIAG self run? > > Once you understand this, it will be very easy to show that something > different is happening in your device. Of course if I had a working model, you, the list, and the world would have heard about it! I was never totally convinced that my Low Inertia Armature Generator (LIAG) would give overunity energy conversion, but I believe it might be possible. At least, it should be very efficient and have other advantages arising from the low inertial mass of the rotor/armature. The theoretical hurdles I am mentally going through, though, are: In the magnetic shield, which would be very thin (.020-.050" probably) and the gap between it and the coil or magnet quite small (again, on the order of .020"), I would think that eddy current loss would be very small--much in the way of transformer laminations being used to limit eddy current loss, as opposed to solid iron core transformers. What I am looking for (by way of devil's advocate) is some force that would act similarly to Lenz's law in that it would resist the rotating magnetic shield's motion in proportion to the electrical load on the coil. Now a current flow through the loaded coil, when produced by the shield making and breaking the flux that the coil sees, might produce a magnetic field that would oppose the magnetic field of the permanant magnet--the strength of this opposing field being proportional to the electrical load. What I don't see, though, is how this would produce an inhibiting force on the rotation of the disk/shield. If anything, it should tend to offset the permanant magnet's field and REDUCE the magnetic drag on the disk, allowing the disk to speed up rather than slow down when under load. I know of a Mr. James W. German of Shepherd, TX, who holds US Patent No. 5,191,258 (which I have in front of me) dated Mar. 2, 1993, on what you would call a "flux-gate" device. He has sent me his paperwork and a videotape which confirms the speeding up as the load is increased. He does not produce over-unity, to the best of my knowledge, but his gate is a relatively thick bar of iron (as shown in the tape and his patent drawing), leaving a big distance between the magnet and the coil; and his coil core is not laminated. He is still experimenting with his apparatus, so he may have improved it by now. Thank you for your comments. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 00:28:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA31037; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:27:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:27:13 -0800 Message-ID: <32D35B21.7937@plix.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:30:25 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor. References: <1.5.4.16.19970107213517.1d8fcb46@startext.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fsljb2.0.oa7.Wfrqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1098 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles Ford wrote: > > >< >with the energy output of e.g. the Finsrud Perpetual Motion machine has > >already > >put out during all its operation time and you will see, that this > >output is much higher than the magnetic energy needed to create the > >permanent magnets used in the Finsrud PM. Also the permanet magnets > >are not yet run down in this device !>> > > > > >Where do ZPEs come into this? You have no theory as to why magnets are ZPE in > >their roots. > >-Adam Grossman > > > > > > Gentelmen: > > I have some of my own half baked idias about whare this energy is coming > from. If the device finds a cycle that resenates whith the ambiant noise > existing in the earth's EM field, it could hook into and run exclusivaly > from this vast energy resource. It could even produce a usable amount of > output power. This energy does not come from any "MAGIC" but exists in the > relm of CONVENTIONAL PHYSICS. and is restored by everyday use of > conventional electrical power, underground nuke tests, meterological > activity.... > > Charles Ford. > clf@startext.net "Ambient noise" is random, whereas to resonate with something, you must match its periodicity or some integer multiple thereof. Since you cannot correlate to noise; that is, tune some sort of receiver to follow every up and down movement of its voltage--since you would need prior knowledge of that random voltage in order to do this, and you can't have that knowledge because the noise is random--than I do not see how you could draw any power out of such random atmospheric EM noise. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 00:31:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA31866; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:30:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:30:49 -0800 From: jjn00@aub.edu.lb Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970108083054.002d622c@layla.aub.edu.lb> X-Sender: jjn00@layla.aub.edu.lb X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 10:30:54 +0200 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re:Renewable Energy Resent-Message-ID: <"WjN1l1.0.nn7.uirqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1099 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would like to have information or some addresses concerning the renewable energy institutions or companies. How can subscribe to these institutions. Thank you Joe From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 00:53:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA05191; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:52:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 00:52:02 -0800 Message-ID: <32D360EF.3BB4@plix.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:55:11 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefan Hartmann CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <199701080131.CAA02720@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mImwE2.0.tG1.k0sqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1100 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >You are describing my LIAG! > >I don't think magnets decrease in power just from being used (except the > >cheaper iron magnets, which demagnitize easily). Take a magneto on a > >lawnmower, for instance. The permanant magnet in the flywheel zips past > >the spark coil millions of times in the course of its use, yet does not > >become demagnitized. The engine would probably fail long before the > >flywheel magnet. > >--Bob Dorman > > Have you already build your LIAG ? > > We will build such a magnetic FLUX switch converter in February ! > > Have you read the article by Dieter Bauer about Ecklin-Bedini magnetic flux > switch ? > > http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm > > He has worked out all the formulars to optimize also your LIAG generator! > Very good work. We know now how to optimize the parameters ! > > Regards, Stefan. > I havn't built one yet, though I have most of the critical parts (supermagnets, wire). I still need to make some sort of shaft/bearing/mount with adjustable coil and magnet mounts. Also need oscilloscope for instrumentation. Thinking of looking for a computer card that will display waveforms on my computer. I just now sent in the password request forms for the two articles. I hadn't before because I find it a pain in the neck to have to jerk around with passwords, encryption, and the like. It's good to hear people are seriously experimenting along these lines. Even if overunity is not produced, the world can always use lighter weight, more efficient generators. You might want to check out my post mentioning the J.W. German patent (No. 5,191,258). --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 02:03:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA16032; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:02:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:02:45 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor. Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 11:02:28 GMT Message-ID: <32d37d46.2185685@mail.zip.com.au> References: <1.5.4.16.19970107213517.1d8fcb46@startext.net> <32D35B21.7937@plix.com> In-Reply-To: <32D35B21.7937@plix.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/16.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"rvWeI1.0.Pw3.43tqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1101 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:30:25 -0800, redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) wrote: _>Charles Ford wrote: _>>=20 [snip] _>> Gentelmen: _>> I have some of my own half baked idias about whare this energy is = coming _>> from. If the device finds a cycle that resenates whith the ambiant = noise _>> existing in the earth's EM field, it could hook into and run = exclusivaly _>> from this vast energy resource. =20 [snip] _>"Ambient noise" is random, whereas to resonate with something, you must _>match its periodicity or some integer multiple thereof. Since you = cannot _>correlate to noise; that is, tune some sort of receiver to follow every _>up and down movement of its voltage--since you would need prior _>knowledge of that random voltage in order to do this, and you can't = have _>that knowledge because the noise is random--than I do not see how you _>could draw any power out of such random atmospheric EM noise. _>--Bob Dorman Yes, "Ambient noise" is random. But if you did a fourier analysis of it you would find all frequencies within your bandwidth present. If you tuned to *one* frequency (or a narrow band) you would=20 still recover *some* energy (equal to the ratio of the bandwidths). If there is enough energy there to start with you could indeed get a useable amount with quite a narrow bandwidth. It all hinges on how much energy there is in the "Ambient noise". Also, if any sort of resonance is involved, random spikes of noise=20 are going to tend to set the resonant "thingy" ringing through shock=20 exitation (just like if you throw a handfull of gravel at a bell - the result won't be very musical but the bell *will* ring). Cheers All, Alan =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. - Michael Sinz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 02:50:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA20068; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:49:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 02:49:02 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108024917.0096a02c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 02:49:18 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Lenz law harnessing, LIAG, Bedini, Magnetic energy, Ecklin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"o7NFh3.0.Jv4.Rktqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1102 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NOTE THAT THE POSTS ON FREENRG-L and VORTEX-L with the subject lines: "Lenz law harnessing/violation", "Magnetic Energy", "Perpetual Magnetic Motor", "Could somebody criticize this please...", and also the LIAG, Bedini and Ecklin designs are all similar and pretty much talk about THE SAME principles and similar devices. I personally think that my current "Lenz Law harnessing..." posts directly relate to the LIAG design and explain its operation in grater detail than the LIAG author's post. This either means we are all making the same mistake or we are onto something. This cannot be coincidence !!! At 12:55 AM 1/8/97 -0800, you wrote: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Bob Dorman wrote: > > > You are describing my LIAG! > > I don't think magnets decrease in power just from being used (except the > > cheaper iron magnets, which demagnitize easily). Take a magneto on a > > lawnmower, for instance. The permanant magnet in the flywheel zips past > > the spark coil millions of times in the course of its use, yet does not > > become demagnitized. The engine would probably fail long before the > > flywheel magnet. > > --Bob Dorman > > The permanent magnets in a magneto do depolarize. Largly this is due to > heat rather than by the back EMF of the spark coil however. > This is true for all magnetic generators with moving parts, be thay > coil, magnet, coil and magnet, flux gate only, flux gate and coil, flux > gate and magnet, or what have you. Simply fixing the coil and magnet > will not yeild a generator that violates this rule. I don't know that I can fully accept that no configuration of magnets and coils and shields in a generator could "violate this rule." > > If your LIAG device operates in the way RdM asked about, then you must > understand why 'conventional wisdom' will think that the device is not > over unity, and therefore will not self run. > > Does your LIAG self run? > > Once you understand this, it will be very easy to show that something > different is happening in your device. Of course if I had a working model, you, the list, and the world would have heard about it! I was never totally convinced that my Low Inertia Armature Generator (LIAG) would give overunity energy conversion, but I believe it might be possible. At least, it should be very efficient and have other advantages arising from the low inertial mass of the rotor/armature. The theoretical hurdles I am mentally going through, though, are: In the magnetic shield, which would be very thin (.020-.050" probably) and the gap between it and the coil or magnet quite small (again, on the order of .020"), I would think that eddy current loss would be very small--much in the way of transformer laminations being used to limit eddy current loss, as opposed to solid iron core transformers. What I am looking for (by way of devil's advocate) is some force that would act similarly to Lenz's law in that it would resist the rotating magnetic shield's motion in proportion to the electrical load on the coil. Now a current flow through the loaded coil, when produced by the shield making and breaking the flux that the coil sees, might produce a magnetic field that would oppose the magnetic field of the permanant magnet--the strength of this opposing field being proportional to the electrical load. What I don't see, though, is how this would produce an inhibiting force on the rotation of the disk/shield. If anything, it should tend to offset the permanant magnet's field and REDUCE the magnetic drag on the disk, allowing the disk to speed up rather than slow down when under load. I know of a Mr. James W. German of Shepherd, TX, who holds US Patent No. 5,191,258 (which I have in front of me) dated Mar. 2, 1993, on what you would call a "flux-gate" device. He has sent me his paperwork and a videotape which confirms the speeding up as the load is increased. He does not produce over-unity, to the best of my knowledge, but his gate is a relatively thick bar of iron (as shown in the tape and his patent drawing), leaving a big distance between the magnet and the coil; and his coil core is not laminated. He is still experimenting with his apparatus, so he may have improved it by now. Thank you for your comments. --Bob Dorman >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> >> >You are describing my LIAG! >> >I don't think magnets decrease in power just from being used (except the >> >cheaper iron magnets, which demagnitize easily). Take a magneto on a >> >lawnmower, for instance. The permanant magnet in the flywheel zips past >> >the spark coil millions of times in the course of its use, yet does not >> >become demagnitized. The engine would probably fail long before the >> >flywheel magnet. >> >--Bob Dorman >> >> Have you already build your LIAG ? >> >> We will build such a magnetic FLUX switch converter in February ! >> >> Have you read the article by Dieter Bauer about Ecklin-Bedini magnetic flux >> switch ? >> >> http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm >> >> He has worked out all the formulars to optimize also your LIAG generator! >> Very good work. We know now how to optimize the parameters ! >> >> Regards, Stefan. >> >I havn't built one yet, though I have most of the critical parts >(supermagnets, wire). >I still need to make some sort of shaft/bearing/mount with adjustable >coil and magnet mounts. Also need oscilloscope for instrumentation. >Thinking of looking for a computer card that will display waveforms on >my computer. > >I just now sent in the password request forms for the two articles. I >hadn't before because I find it a pain in the neck to have to jerk >around with passwords, encryption, and the like. > >It's good to hear people are seriously experimenting along these lines. >Even if overunity is not produced, the world can always use lighter >weight, more efficient generators. You might want to check out my post >mentioning the J.W. German patent (No. 5,191,258). > >--Bob Dorman > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 04:09:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA32019; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:08:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:08:26 -0800 Message-ID: <32D38CCB.2975@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 22:32:19 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Flux superposition References: <3.0.32.19970107194244.0077d150@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ywZDw.0.Aq7.tuuqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1105 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: epitaxy wrote: > The whole purpose of me bringing up the flux superposition issue is to > object to Greg Watson's objection that the induced magnetic pole in the > > Do you also disagree with Greg Watson's objection ? > Hi there, What is my comment you refer to? I have not made any comment or objection about this idea yet. I am doing simulation work and will have some feedback and comments shortly. Could you please send me a copy of my comments. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 04:09:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA31945; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:08:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:08:07 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:04:43 +0100 Message-Id: <199701081204.NAA02162@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..PM configuration... Cc: epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"bpA67.0.2p7.buuqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1103 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I really am not sure, but I know that practically the two opposed magnets >will attract the plate stronger than one non-opposed magnet. I think the >flux density is higher and Greg Watson seems to think that the opposing >poles cancel each other. > >I understand that the field lines in the gap between two S-S PMs would be >very distorted. I do not grasp this issue fully and that is why I made all >of those experiments with the attraction of the metal plate. I hope that >you and Greg Watson will be able to shed some more theoretical light on >what is happening in this setup Well, that 2 S-S PMs would attract the iron plate better than 2 N-S alligned PMs is pretty clear ! With the S-S configuration allmost all flux is coming out of the gap, cause the poles repell each other, so this flux "grabbs" all material it can attract ! With the N-S configuration, only some stray-flux is coming out of the gap, thus less flux to "grabb" any iron material is there at a distance ! Pretty easy to visualize and understand ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 04:09:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA31981; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:08:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:08:14 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:04:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199701081204.NAA02164@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Iron plate attraction..just special case of Ecklin-Brown flux switch ! Cc: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, bshannon@tiac.net Resent-Message-ID: <"sbHzN2.0.Qp7.guuqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1104 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>In the posts on vortex-l titled "Could somebody criticize this..." and >>"Liag, Ecklin demystyfied" written by Epitaxy in December 1996, several >>interesting principles were described. > > >I agree that the dynamic interaction is different with an inductor and a >permanent magnet. > >In my analysis I have been referring to so called finite point analysis >where the time is hypothetically frozen in discrete intervals in order to >discreetly illustrate the behavior of this electromechanical circuit. In >this pseudo static case I maintain that the coil and PM are= interchangeable. > >This type of approach is what prompted me to perform the turntable= experiment. > >1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more >and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to >compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the PM (caused by the >increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If not - >why not ? I agree. > >2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz >law, it will produce a magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity as the >permanent magnet, WHEN the plate shields the coil from the PM (ie. upon >reaching the middle of the gap) ? If not - why not ? I guess, it depends on how much magnetic flux is now shielded away from the coil, but surely the flux inside the coil changes and thus the shorted coil produces a magnetic field, which attracts the iron plate into the gap ! >3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the >coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, >just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent >magnets in the turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? I agree ! > >Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of >undesirable eddy currents in the plate. Yes, to prevent eddy currents ferrites or a laminated iron plate should be used ! I tinkered a lot about these ideas yeasterday evening and I=20 came to the conclusion, that what you have presented is just a "special" case of the article D. Bauer has published on my www.overunity.de/theory.htm web site under Ecklin-Bedini converter ! If you imagine that your single PM at the left side has it flux lines closed via the air, so the coil is inside its field, there could also be used an iron core where the coil is on, so you have a Bedini- Ecklin-LIAG flux switch converter: NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole)=20 I I I I I (iron plate moving up) If you have a look again at this and imagine, that the flux lines of the PM are closed via the air, then you can see, that instead of closing=20 it via the air one could also close them via an iron (ferrite) core=20 and put the coil onto the core !!! Thus we have this Bedini-Ecklin-Brown-LIAG- flux switch ! So all the differential equatation mathematics is already done via Dieter Bauer=B4s article over there at my WEB site. Your case is just a special case of it using coil shortening and opening switches to reduce the mechanical drag on the moving iron plate=20 (which in our article case is the rotor inside the gap!) ! Maybe we will also incorporate this coil switching, when we will build this device in February... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 04:10:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA32322; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:09:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:09:47 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:06:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199701081206.NAA02196@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: LC Tanks Resent-Message-ID: <"zVDNJ1.0.wu7.8wuqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1106 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >Some time ago (and in another forum), there was an interesting discussion >regarding the behaviour of an LC tank in a circuit that looked something >like this, and used the interupted field of L1 to contribute an additional >charge to capacitor C2: > > > ===== L1 > ---------------------/ \-000000 ----- > | | | > +ve | +ve > C1 | C2 > - ve --|< ------- -ve > | D1 | > --------------------------------------- > >The responses to the original experimenters post seemed to be a little less >than adequate with regard to the basic concept, and largely revolved around >the energy of the capacitors, in the form of .5 CV^2. Now this has been >bothering me for some time, so I'd like to suggest the following thought >experiment to members of this list for their comments (or abuse:). > >Consider the following circuit. > > S1 L > a----X--------OOOOOOO------------b > | | | | > - | | | | > --- X S2 X S3 --- > --- C1 | | --- C2 > + | | | | > | | | | > c--------------------------------d > >Where; >C1 & C2 are Capacitors, >S1 S2 & S3 are on/off switches, >L is an Inductance, >and a b c d are circuit reference points. > >At this point, disregard any resistive or other losses. > >Assume initially in the above circuit that all switches are open, and an >electrical charge is stored in capacitor C1. The electrical charge (Q) >contained in the capacitor is observed to be CV Coulombs, and its energy is >described as 0.5 CV^2 Joules. The clock is stopped. > >We now close switch S1, and leave switches S2 and S3 open. The clock is >started, and electrical charge commences to migrate from C1 to C2 through >the inductor L. Thus an electrical current occurs in the total circuit >a,b,d,c. As charge is transferred into C2, an associated magnetic field >expands about our inductor L. The clock is stopped. > >At this point in time, a calculable portion of our charge has been >transferred from C1 to C2. If we now examine the voltages across C1 and C2, >we find, from Q = CV, that the sum of the charges in the two capacitors is >equal to the original charge contained in C1. We now open switch S1, and >close switch S2 (S3 is still open). > >We restart the clock. The magnetic field of our inductor L, (containing >energy produced by the charge transfer, in the form of .5LI^2 Joules) now >starts to collapse. In doing so, it will try to maintain its initial >current at the previous level, and the voltage across it will rise in >opposition to the potential that now exists across C2. An electrical current >now flows in the circuit, L, b, d, S2. And energy from the magnetic field is >forced into capacitor C2 in the form of an electrical charge. The clock is >stopped. > >If we again examine the voltages across C1 and C2 and calculate their >charges, we find that the sum of these charges, is now greater than the >charge we had in C1 at the start. However, the sum of the energy they >contain, in the form of .5LI^2, will be less than we started with in C1 >originally. > >Am I in trouble yet? > >However, let's start the clock again, leaving the switches exactly the same. > As is the habit of an LC circuit, the charge of C2 will try to equalise, >and commences to migrate back through our inductor via the circuit b, L, S2, >d. An electrical current starts to flow in that circuit. Now, at that >point in time when the potential across C2 reaches zero, and the energy of >the capacitor (in the form of .5 CV^2) has been transposed into the magnetic >field of our inductor L (in the form of .5 LI^2) we again stop the clock. > >At this point, let's close S3, open S2, and close S1. > >Start the clock again. The energy from the collapsing magnetic field of our >inductor is now compelled to transfer itself into capacitor C1 via the >circuit c, S3, L, S1, a. To do so the voltage across the inductor will rise >to a level sufficient to maintain its initial current. When the magnetic >field has collapsed, stop the clock, and open all the switches. > >Now let's measure the voltage across C1 and calculate again how much charge >it contains. Let's also calculate the energy it now contains in the form of >.5 CV^2 Joules. > >In the absence of a rational explanation to the contrary shall I presume >that the obvious conclusion might just be correct? > >Stuart Rae. > > > Hi Stuart ! Great ideas ! Maybe this is the secret prociple the Methernitha Testatika works like ! Did you get any negative replies ? I can find no errors ! Regards, Stefan. > > > > > > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 04:15:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA32620; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:14:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:14:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32D38EC1.33D1@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 22:40:41 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..... References: <32D2EACD.6CF4@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hW2ZY3.0.bz7.g-uqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1107 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > The total flux in the gap is greater than with a single magnet, there > are just two, uncrossing sets of flux, one from each magnet. You can > push and distort the field of one with another, but you cannot reduce > the total flux of the two. Hi Bob, Don't forget that two opposing magnets will demag each other by moving their operation point further down their B/H curves, but other that that what you say is correct and can be shown by simulation. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 04:36:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA03349; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:35:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 04:35:54 -0800 Message-ID: <32D393B7.1869@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 23:01:51 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <32D2A194.1C7F@tiac.net> <32D3581B.4C47@plix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2qrc-2.0.Aq.eIvqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1108 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dorman, Robert wrote: > > Now a current flow through the loaded coil, when produced by the shield > making and breaking the flux that the coil sees, might produce a > magnetic field that would oppose the magnetic field of the permanant > magnet--the strength of this opposing field being proportional to the > electrical load. What I don't see, though, is how this would produce an > inhibiting force on the rotation of the disk/shield. If anything, it > should tend to offset the permanant magnet's field and REDUCE the > magnetic drag on the disk, allowing the disk to speed up rather than > slow down when under load. > Hi Robert, As your disk/shield is magnetically conductive it is attracted to the point of max flux (your poles). Your system induces voltage into the output coil by varing the total system reluctance. In other words, the total system flux varies from a min to a max value. Max flux will occur when your moving disk/shield is at the point of max magnetic attraction. As your system moves to the point of max attraction/flux, flux flowing through the output coil is increasing and any output current will induce a opposing flux flow which will reduce total system flux. As the force of attraction is related to the square of the flux density any current drawn from the output coil effects the load seen by the rotary driving source. If you could send me some more technical data on your idea, I will do a simulation for you. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 07:32:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA03425; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 07:31:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 07:31:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32D37781.20DB@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 10:31:29 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..PM configuration... References: <199701081204.NAA02162@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Uuz_C3.0.Or.Xtxqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1109 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >I really am not sure, but I know that practically the two opposed magnets > >will attract the plate stronger than one non-opposed magnet. I think the > >flux density is higher and Greg Watson seems to think that the opposing > >poles cancel each other. > > > >I understand that the field lines in the gap between two S-S PMs would be > >very distorted. I do not grasp this issue fully and that is why I made all > >of those experiments with the attraction of the metal plate. I hope that > >you and Greg Watson will be able to shed some more theoretical light on > >what is happening in this setup > > Well, that 2 S-S PMs would attract the iron plate better than > 2 N-S alligned PMs is pretty clear ! Why is this clear? The total flux is equal opposed or not. > With the S-S configuration allmost all flux is coming out of the gap, > cause the poles repell each other, so this flux "grabbs" all material > it can attract ! I dont quite follow this. The magnetic flux interacts with the plate in the same way with poles opposed or not. The only differnace is in the geometery of the field. I'm afriad that as current is drawn from the coil, the rotating shaft will still suffer an opposing force. I see nothing that makes the LIAG or other flux gate devices operate any differently than the many flux gate devices that have come before. Lenz's law rules in all cases. > With the N-S configuration, only some stray-flux is coming out of the gap, > thus less flux to "grabb" any iron material is there at a distance ! > Pretty easy to visualize and understand ! While more flux may be present outside the gap, the total flux acting on the plate is equal with poles aiding or opposed, therefore the net attraction will be equal over all. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 08:43:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA21761; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:43:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:43:03 -0800 Date: 08 Jan 97 11:39:52 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: FNRG Subject: Scalar EM Fields Message-ID: <970108163952_71232.360_GHL87-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"4qmj8.0.tJ5.Kwyqo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1110 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all, I'd like to get whatever feedback I can on a hypothesis as I'm about to sit down and start building this device I dreamed up. It's actually just a deviation on a standard motor. My hypothesis is that perhaps ... maybe ... a loop of wire in mechanical motion through a scalar EM field would have the inverse effects of the same running through a standard magnetic field, except ... maybe ... it would cause an inverse current, which could possibly mean electrons with reverse spin? Instead of permanent magnets around the periphery of the motor, I'm going to use double-wound coils to produce static scalar fields. The effect should be the same, except of course the EM field will be scalar instead of "standard." Then I'm going to spin an armature through the fields and see what happens. Just like a motor/generator, all but the magnets. Since a scalar field is the inverse of a magnetic field (a magnetic field cancelled out), then it stands to reason that this setup could cause an inverse current to flow -- for whatever that would amount to. I recall JRR Searl saying at a lecture that light bulbs hooked up to his SEG do not burn out. Maybe reverse-spinning electrons even have some sort of temporal effects, who ever knows... It's going to take a little time to do this experiment because I'm going to do it right and set things up with some degree of precision and reliability. Any comments at all would be very much appreciated, thank in advance! -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 10:21:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA02007; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:18:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 10:18:00 -0800 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 09:34:05 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"izQUk2.0.-U.3J-qo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1111 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Chris; I recieved you e-mail through the free energy forum. I don't usually reply but I am quite taken with you concept. It makes some sense, at least on the surface. I would like to establish contact with you and follow your work. Perhaps even duplicate if the time allows, but I certainly dont' have much of that. Would you charge your scalar coils with D.C. or A.C. and how would you measure you generator scalar output. I applaud your practical approach. Byrun Fox. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 12:10:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA05275; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:07:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:07:57 -0800 Message-ID: <32D3B833.5C1B@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 15:07:31 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields References: <970108163952_71232.360_GHL87-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UkLml1.0.BI1.Qw_qo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1112 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Malcheski wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'd like to get whatever feedback I can on a hypothesis as I'm about to sit down > and start building this device I dreamed up. It's actually just a deviation on > a standard motor. > > My hypothesis is that perhaps ... maybe ... a loop of wire in mechanical motion > through a scalar EM field would have the inverse effects of the same running > through a standard magnetic field, except ... maybe ... it would cause an > inverse current, which could possibly mean electrons with reverse spin? A wire cutting a scalar field will not induce electromagnetic energy in that wire, and equal and opposit forces act on the wire. > Instead of permanent magnets around the periphery of the motor, I'm going to use > double-wound coils to produce static scalar fields. The effect should be the > same, except of course the EM field will be scalar instead of "standard." Then > I'm going to spin an armature through the fields and see what happens. Just > like a motor/generator, all but the magnets. Oh no, we have a problem here! If you use bifilar (double wound) coild fed from an unchanging (DC) current, you will not produce any scalar fields. Please refer to T.E. Beardens discussion on the importance of fast rise times, etc. Without a changing field, there will be no vector superposition of the magnetic flux from the two opposed conductors within each bifilar coil, although the macroscopic (net) field will be far less than that of either conductor alone. The reason for this is that the net (total) magnetic flux with both conductors opposed, with constant current, will arange itself in such a way that no flux lines cross, so there can be no vector superposition of magnetic flux in the static case. While driven by a static (unchanging) current, the bifilar coils will produce highly distorted, opposed but seperate magentic fields around each opposed conductor. > Since a scalar field is the inverse of a magnetic field (a magnetic field > cancelled out), then it stands to reason that this setup could cause an inverse > current to flow -- for whatever that would amount to. I recall JRR Searl saying > at a lecture that light bulbs hooked up to his SEG do not burn out. Maybe > reverse-spinning electrons even have some sort of temporal effects, who ever > knows... It's going to take a little time to do this experiment because I'm > going to do it right and set things up with some degree of precision and > reliability. > > Any comments at all would be very much appreciated, thank in advance! A scalar field is not simply the inverse of a magnetic field! A scalar field is the potential remaining after fields, electrical or magnetic, are completely eliminated by vector superposition. This is not impossible, but is rather difficult to acheive in practice. Next, a magnetic field will induce a vector (EM) current of either polarity depending on the polarity applied to the coil. An inverse current flow is simply a current flow in the opposite direction, which is also a current of the opposite polarity. This is produced by a magnetic field, not a scalar field. A scalar field has no mass in motion, so it will not induce electron flow in the conductor at all. Remenber that the scalar is equivilent to two opposed EM fields, not the opposite of a single EM field. This is important! A scalar field does have potential however, but potential must be 'translated' (Bearden's term) to yeild vector (EM) energy. Translation can be a complex phenomena. What you will need to do is to drop the use of mechanical rotation, and apply AC to the bifilar coils (which must be carefully wound to prevent any EM leakage) and place a fixed coil in proximity to these. This is essentialy a three coil transformer, where two windings are bifilar (to prevent the macropole flux from each seperate coil from leaving the core, you cannot sum the poles of conventional coils and yeild a scalar as so many claim!) and the third coil is conventional. The result will be that no voltage is exptressed in the normal coil. There will be a pure potential present however. Interconnecting two such devices, each fed 180 degrees out of ohase with respect to the other is a different matter though. As I see it, the original plan has two major flaws: First, DC will not produce a scalar field in the bifilar coils. Secondly, scalar waves (from AC fed coils) will not produce EM current in the conventional coil. So even if we fix these two problems, this device will not act as you might expect it to. Please be aware that true scalar fields appear to have a profound effect on biological systems. You need to understand exactly what is going to happen, and have very good equipment to work in this area. There are many who have studied scalar technology, but few are willing to document their exact methods. Most often, this is becuase sucessful researchers in this area are quite aware of the risks of very simple experiments. Low power levels will not mediate the risk of exposure. The only effective shielding is to be in a different time and place than the field, which makes collecting experimental data tough. I reccomend anyone interested in scalar fields begin with a review of the available detector designs first. Look at what is there before you leap into the unknown! And that's all I've got to say about that. Oh yes, if Searl's disk delivered work to a resistive load (made the bulb light) then it was not a pure scalar output! If the bulb is claimed to have run cold, but given off light, we must ask how the emitted light was produced. Standard bulbs produce light only by heating the filament. Odd eh? Some claim that Floyd Sweets VTA was a scalar transformer. If you carefully watch the video tape demonstration of Sweet's VTA, you will note the rather odd effect that full energy is delivered to the load at the very instant the signal generator driving the VTA is turned on. Quite disturbing scince the signal generator Sweet used for this demonstration is a vacuum tube based device, and does not deliver an output signal for quite some time after AC power is turned on. (verified by testing the same make and model HP oscillator.) I suspect either a ground loop, or deliberate fraud. If you missed this, or dismiss it, then please let me know what you think of the 'beam' coming from the quartz halogen lamp. This ought to put this issue to rest once and for all. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 12:15:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA06859; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:12:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:12:56 -0800 Date: 08 Jan 97 15:10:30 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields Message-ID: <970108201030_71232.360_GHL102-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"S1Hyl.0.4h1.6__qo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1113 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bryun, I'll be more than happy to keep you up to date on what happens. Even if there are no immediately obvious effects, I'm still going to be doing a lot of testing before deciding "nothing happened." Some results may be hidden and not immediately obvious so I'm going to be careful about this. Actually I'm wondering what would happen if a standard motor were built, simply replacing the permanent magnets with electromagnets, no scalar anything involved. As long as I'm going to build this thing I might as well try both setups. Both the Searl disk and the Otis device (if I remember correctly) involved collector coils around the periphery and I'm wondering if this will produce some anomaly as well, just by the presence of these coils (of either scalar or non-scalar) instead of permanent magnets. I've never heard of anybody building a motor/generator using electromagnets instead of permanent magnets, since by orthodox theory such a device would be completely useless. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Also I'll only be using DC (AC could be an experiment but I think it would cancel any scalar effect ... still it might be interesting to play around with, but first I want to see what happens with DC.) -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 12:16:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA07156; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:13:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:13:31 -0800 Message-ID: <32D3B990.58E4@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 15:13:20 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IFQtp1.0.fl1.f__qo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1114 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Byrun Fox wrote: > > Dear Chris; > > I recieved you e-mail through the free energy forum. I don't usually reply > but I am quite taken with you concept. It makes some sense, at least on the > surface. I would like to establish contact with you and follow your work. > Perhaps even duplicate if the time allows, but I certainly dont' have much > of that. > > Would you charge your scalar coils with D.C. or A.C. and how would you > measure you generator scalar output. Please read my response to the original post on DC vs. AC to the coils. There are a number of scalar detector plans available. I've posted one such design to Bills web site. > I applaud your practical approach. > > Byrun Fox. Here here! Lets actually test something, it's a lot more fun that discussing Lenz's law. If you want to do something useful with Lenz's law, then scalar technology should be right up your ally. "induced fields are equal and opposite the applied field...." Hmmmm, now what does this sound like to you? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 13:27:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA28195; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:25:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:25:59 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:22:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970108155640_71234107@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de cc: harti@bbtt.de Subject: Magnestor testing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.9754.emout12.mail.aol.com.852757000" Resent-Message-ID: <"XnyQC3.0.Ru6.b31ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1115 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.9754.emout12.mail.aol.com.852757000 Content-ID: <0_9754_852757000@emout12.mail.aol.com.8458> Content-type: text/plain Subject : Re : little correction regarding letter to J.L.Naudin On 08/01/1997 02:27:28, You wrote : << >In one of my last letters I gave some tips how to optimize a LIAG-Bedini >generator and wrote. > >>6) Make the radius of rotation bigger. This will enhance the velocity of >>the rotating magnets and therefore the voltage spikes become higher. > >This is not quite correct because if the diameter is augmented torque and >power input increases as well. It can work perhaps if the whole setup is >upscaled taking n-times more magnets and coils in the periphery at n-times >bigger diameter. Then frequency f can be reduced to f/n reducing the >friction with the quadratic depencence ~f^2. >But I think this is not of big importance now at the low stage today. > >Best regards > >Dieter Bauer > >> Dear Dieter, Thanks for your informations about LIAG Bedini generator. I work, today, on an experimental STATIC GATE FLUX COMMUTATOR, my aim is to build a static device which make magnetic gate flux....I don't know if it is really possible ......I have attached the picture (MGNSTOR.GIF) of my new device "Magnistor V1.0". This experimental device is build like this scheme bellow : ======= L2 oIIo oIIo L3 oIIo oIIo ooooooo oIIo oIIo _______ A--------ooooooo d1 II II d2 I I ==========================I I f ==========================I S N I Magnet (BaFe) ==========================I I B--------ooooooo I_______I ooooooo L1 f = Ferrite core (BaFe) L1 = Output Coil ( Voltage ouput in AB) L2-L3 = Gate flux excitation coils : power 9 volts/AC, in serial mode. The excitation core is a U-shaped core made with transformer laminations. Distance d1 and d2 may be adjusted to have an maximal value of output signal (U AB). I am at the begining of Magnistor's tests. Today, I can notice that, when I remove magnet from ferrite core, output signal is very low. Another thing, when I put a short-circuit between AB, the input power stay constant....(energy from the magnet ???) Today, I can't conclude anything, it is too early, I need to build experimentals specifications for the tests. 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freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 13:31:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA29785 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:31:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:31:08 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Wed Jan 8 13:31:06 1997 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA29640 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:30:57 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp30.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.158]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id IAA25531 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Thu, 9 Jan 1997 08:30:12 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32D410FE.6987@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 07:56:22 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..... References: <3.0.32.19970107225858.0095cdd0@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2A1E702022BC" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2A1E702022BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Epitaxy wrote: > > >> In this configuration I experimentally verified that two opposing magnets > >> INDEED attract the plate stronger than only one magnet. (Look: Re: Lenz > >> Law Violation ---> Accelerating Turntable) > > Hi Guys, Enclosed are my simulations of two magnets with a ferrite block. The first has the magnets in an NN configuration and the second in a NS config. The results speak for themselves. Pull in the NN config is over 30 times greater than the NS config. The sim used Neodym magnets. Please also note the decrease in max magnet flux from .8590T in the NS config to .7980T in the NN config. Running the magnets in NN mode does demag the magnets somewhat, but makes much more of the flux field available externally to the magnets. Will have some more shortly. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------2A1E702022BC Content-Type: image/gif; name="magounn.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="magounn.gif" R0lGODlhgALgAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBKQEVAT8BKSkVAQEpLS0 vKRUpFSkpGx0dPwEBPz8BAQE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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(8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA30261; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:32:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:32:39 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32D27726.294D@tiac.net> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 00:12:32 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Power from Energy Lines: 23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"H1tIe2.0.jO7.r91ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1116 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In reply to the Bob Shannon question: "Energy" - possibility to make a Work. For electricity "work in load" is produced if conductivity current exist in a wire of closed circuit. Electrical energy is potential. Permanent Magnet produce field that can be considered as "energy". To make it produce an work, it is necessary to make a CHANGE of flux in area of coil of generator. I would like recommend to read old Einstein & Infeld book "Evolution of Physics" in the beginning, where authors made definition of force. Force is a reason for change of velocity. In electromagnetic aspect this means well- known EM induction law. So, periodical changes (process in time) is a way from "energy", "potential", "permanent magnet field" to the Power. Best regards, --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 13:41:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA00139; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:40:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:40:21 -0800 Message-ID: <32D41357.2E12@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 08:06:23 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..... References: <32D2EACD.6CF4@tiac.net> <32D38EC1.33D1@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D38267.22FE@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pTPym3.0.r1.1H1ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1117 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Yep, this is true, but only while the magnets (or flux) is moving. > Hi Bob, A permanent magnet has an intrinsic magnetization value called J which is reduced by two factors. One being an external field changing or stationary, makes no difference. The other is self demag caused by the magnet's own north field begin attracted to ist own south field through the inside of the magnet. An example is a bar magnet Short and the self demag field will move the B/H operating point down the curve. Long and the self demag effect is reduced. This is a fact. It is in the interature, I know by my own testing and the Quick Field simulation also shows it. Best regards, Greg From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 14:01:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA06140; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:00:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:00:16 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108140032.0096f880@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 14:00:35 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"YeT2p.0.nV1.lZ1ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1118 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: IT IS SIMPLE: To recover energy from random AC noise - RECTIFY IT and charge a capacitor with it. This way even if the AC noise averages to zero after the rectification the DC output will equal to the average value of the random AC waveform. At 11:02 AM 1/8/97 GMT, you wrote: >On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:30:25 -0800, redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert >) wrote: > >_>Charles Ford wrote: >_>> >[snip] >_>> Gentelmen: > >_>> I have some of my own half baked idias about whare this energy is coming >_>> from. If the device finds a cycle that resenates whith the ambiant noise >_>> existing in the earth's EM field, it could hook into and run exclusivaly >_>> from this vast energy resource. >[snip] > >_>"Ambient noise" is random, whereas to resonate with something, you must >_>match its periodicity or some integer multiple thereof. Since you cannot >_>correlate to noise; that is, tune some sort of receiver to follow every >_>up and down movement of its voltage--since you would need prior >_>knowledge of that random voltage in order to do this, and you can't have >_>that knowledge because the noise is random--than I do not see how you >_>could draw any power out of such random atmospheric EM noise. >_>--Bob Dorman > >Yes, "Ambient noise" is random. But if you did a fourier analysis of >it you would find all frequencies within your bandwidth present. >If you tuned to *one* frequency (or a narrow band) you would >still recover *some* energy (equal to the ratio of the bandwidths). >If there is enough energy there to start with you could indeed >get a useable amount with quite a narrow bandwidth. It all hinges >on how much energy there is in the "Ambient noise". > >Also, if any sort of resonance is involved, random spikes of noise >are going to tend to set the resonant "thingy" ringing through shock >exitation (just like if you throw a handfull of gravel at a bell - the > >result won't be very musical but the bell *will* ring). > >Cheers All, >Alan > > >====================================================== >Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. > - Michael Sinz >====================================================== > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 14:20:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA11279; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:19:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:19:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108141914.0096e7ec@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 14:19:16 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Iron plate attraction..just special case of Ecklin-Brown flux switch ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"FqW31.0.7m2.Zr1ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1119 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I expected this answer on que#2 ! I agree that it depends on how much magnetic flux is shielded by the iron plate. In this theoretical question it is assumed that the iron plate shields all of the PM flux. Do you agree that in such a case the closed superconductive coil will respond by producing a mirror of the PM pole (exactly the same intensity), when the plate completely shields the PM. ? I also agree that what I have been describing is very much related to D.Bauer post and LIAG and Bedini designs. These devices seem to utilize many of the principles in my posts. Let this be an indication of something real I am attempting to present those concepts in more details in a very straight forward way with simple experiments to verify the "component" phenomena. Finally I agree that if you close the magnetic flux paths in my posts by some sort of ferromagnetic material, you will almost get a Bedini design. The concepts in my posts allow this design to be evaluated before building the actual device and allow the maximization of efficiency by understanding exactly what each parameter affects. At 01:04 PM 1/8/97 +0100, you wrote: >> >>>In the posts on vortex-l titled "Could somebody criticize this..." and >>>"Liag, Ecklin demystyfied" written by Epitaxy in December 1996, several >>>interesting principles were described. >>2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz >>law, it will produce a magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity as the >>permanent magnet, WHEN the plate shields the coil from the PM (ie. upon >>reaching the middle of the gap) ? If not - why not ? >I guess, it depends on how much magnetic flux is now shielded away >from the coil, but surely the flux inside the coil changes and thus >the shorted coil produces a magnetic field, which attracts the iron >plate into the gap ! >I tinkered a lot about these ideas yeasterday evening and I=20 >came to the conclusion, that what you have presented is just a "special" >case of the article D. Bauer has published on my= www.overunity.de/theory.htm >web site under Ecklin-Bedini converter ! >If you imagine that your single PM at the left side has it flux lines >closed via the air, so the coil is inside its field, there could also >be used an iron core where the coil is on, so you have a Bedini- >Ecklin-LIAG flux switch converter: > >NNNNSSSS CCCCCCCC Coil closed (producing South pole)=20 > > > I > I > I > I > I (iron plate moving up) > > >If you have a look again at this and imagine, that the flux lines of the >PM are closed via the air, then you can see, that instead of closing=20 >it via the air one could also close them via an iron (ferrite) core=20 >and put the coil onto the core !!! >Thus we have this Bedini-Ecklin-Brown-LIAG- flux switch ! > >So all the differential equatation mathematics is already done >via Dieter Bauer=B4s article over there at my WEB site. > >Your case is just a special case of it using coil shortening and opening >switches to reduce the mechanical drag on the moving iron plate=20 >(which in our article case is the rotor inside the gap!) ! > > >Maybe we will also incorporate this coil switching, when we will build this >device in February... > > >Regards, Stefan. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de >Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de >Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de >My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 14:21:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA11823; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:20:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:20:35 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108142052.0096d580@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 14:20:55 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..PM configuration... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"PlZJc2.0.eu2.ms1ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1120 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Appears correct to me although I don't think Greg Watson will like it. Comments anybody ? At 01:04 PM 1/8/97 +0100, you wrote: > >Well, that 2 S-S PMs would attract the iron plate better than >2 N-S alligned PMs is pretty clear ! >With the S-S configuration allmost all flux is coming out of the gap, >cause the poles repell each other, so this flux "grabbs" all material >it can attract ! >With the N-S configuration, only some stray-flux is coming out of the gap, >thus less flux to "grabb" any iron material is there at a distance ! >Pretty easy to visualize and understand ! > >Regards, Stefan. >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 >email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de >Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de >Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de >My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com > > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 14:26:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA13545 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:26:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:26:43 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Wed Jan 8 14:26:40 1997 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA13532 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:26:36 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp30.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.158]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id JAA27422 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:26:11 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32D41E21.1382@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 08:52:25 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..... References: <32D2EACD.6CF4@tiac.net> <32D38EC1.33D1@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D38267.22FE@tiac.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B4C46C6289" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B4C46C6289 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again, Here is a more detailed NN configuration. Note the magnets repelled flux allows more flux to enter the ferrite block and hense increase its domain alignments and therefore its attraction into the gap. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------B4C46C6289 Content-Type: image/gif; name="magounn2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="magounn2.gif" R0lGODlhgALgAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBKQEVKSkVAT8BAQEpKRU pLS0vFSkpGx0dPwEBPz8BAQE/PwE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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Ohe44RXveMlb3raSdrGuXW5s66pd5qKWve317nqtS1341le+843ud+/LXf/2d7jxNe+ACVxg Ax/4t8U1rHAR3GAHPxjCEZYwWiv71QpPGMMRGdbwhjncYQ9/GMQhFrGIAwIAOw== --------------B4C46C6289-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 14:30:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA14697 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:30:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:30:49 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Wed Jan 8 14:30:46 1997 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA14677 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:30:38 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp30.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.158]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id JAA27558 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:30:10 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32D41F0F.24C3@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 08:56:23 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..... References: <32D2EACD.6CF4@tiac.net> <32D38EC1.33D1@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D38267.22FE@tiac.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FD69403310" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FD69403310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again, Here is the more detailed NS configuration. As Stephan suggessted, the NS config draws more of the flux directly from the left hand north pole to the right hand south pole, leaving very little for the ferrite to grab. As the flux flowing in the ferrite is small, so to is its domain alignment and hense its attraction into the gap. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------FD69403310 Content-Type: image/gif; name="magouns2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="magouns2.gif" R0lGODlhgALgAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBKQEVKSkVAT8BAQEpKRU pLS0vFSkpGx0dPwEBPz8BAQE/PwE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 14:45:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA17872; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:44:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:44:23 -0800 Message-ID: <32D3DCE5.7646@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 17:44:05 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Iron plate attraction..just special case of Ecklin-Brown flux switch ! References: <3.0.32.19970108141914.0096e7ec@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YfHeQ1.0.9N4.6D2ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1121 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > I expected this answer on que#2 ! I agree that it depends on how much > magnetic flux is shielded by the iron plate. In this theoretical question > it is assumed that the iron plate shields all of the PM flux. Then it must suffer large Eddy currents. This is how magnetic shielding works. Low Eddy current materials are poor shields at high field levels. MuMetal will have huge Eddy currents. > Do you agree that in such a case the closed superconductive coil will > respond by producing a mirror of the PM pole (exactly the same intensity), > when the plate completely shields the PM. ? Err, ahh, if the plate fully shields the PM, why would there be an induced field at all? I'm not understanding something here it seems. > I also agree that what I have been describing is very much related to > D.Bauer post and LIAG and Bedini designs. These devices seem to utilize > many of the principles in my posts. Let this be an indication of something > real > I am attempting to present those concepts in more details in a very > straight forward way with simple experiments to verify the "component" > phenomena. > > Finally I agree that if you close the magnetic flux paths in my posts by > some sort of ferromagnetic material, you will almost get a Bedini design. > The concepts in my posts allow this design to be evaluated before building > the actual device and allow the maximization of efficiency by understanding > exactly what each parameter affects. Stefan wrote: > >So all the differential equatation mathematics is already done > >via Dieter Bauer´s article over there at my WEB site. > > > >Your case is just a special case of it using coil shortening and opening > >switches to reduce the mechanical drag on the moving iron plate > >(which in our article case is the rotor inside the gap!) ! > > > > > >Maybe we will also incorporate this coil switching, when we will build this > >device in February... Ok, if you short/open the coil, we get a really fast change in it's field. This change will induce a large counterforce. (due to the high rate of change) How will this reduce drag? How is LIAG, Benini, or any other flux gate device different from any of the many flux gate 'over unity' designs that have all failed to reach 100% efficiency, much less anything over 100%? Why is nature expected to treat these designs any differently than the flux gate design presented in the Manual of Free Energy, which was well under 100% efficient? I fail to see any significant differnaces. What have I missed? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 14:51:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA19782; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:50:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:50:26 -0800 Message-ID: <32D3DE4E.495E@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 17:50:06 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..PM configuration... References: <3.0.32.19970108142052.0096d580@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2wMuL1.0.wq4.lI2ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1122 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Appears correct to me although I don't think Greg Watson will like it. > > Comments anybody ? > > At 01:04 PM 1/8/97 +0100, you wrote: > > > >Well, that 2 S-S PMs would attract the iron plate better than > >2 N-S alligned PMs is pretty clear ! > >With the S-S configuration allmost all flux is coming out of the gap, > >cause the poles repell each other, so this flux "grabbs" all material > >it can attract ! > >With the N-S configuration, only some stray-flux is coming out of the gap, > >thus less flux to "grabb" any iron material is there at a distance ! > >Pretty easy to visualize and understand ! > > > >Regards, Stefan. So just becuase more flux extends outside the gap, there is more attraction? Why is flux outside the gap yeilding more attraction than the same flux inside the gap? Do you expect to get more attraction than with the magents aiding? Sorry, I don't buy this explaination. That's just not how flux works. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:01:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA22044; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:00:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:00:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32D42605.3525@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:26:05 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: No graphic? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q1h253.0.PN5.pR2ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1123 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Guys, I have sent several gifs and jpgs to the group, but haven't had any back. Have you seen any posts for me with attached gif/jps images? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:15:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA25157; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:14:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:14:07 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108151424.00977e70@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 15:14:26 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Flux superposition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"GAb4P.0.v86.ze2ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1124 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am including the post I am referring to on the bottom At 10:32 PM 1/8/97 +1030, you wrote: >Hi there, > >What is my comment you refer to? I have not made any comment or >objection about this idea yet. I am doing simulation work and will >have some feedback and comments shortly. > >Could you please send me a copy of my comments. > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au >epitaxy wrote: >> The whole purpose of me bringing up the flux superposition issue is to >> object to Greg Watson's objection that the induced magnetic pole in the >> >> Do you also disagree with Greg Watson's objection ? >> Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:29:31 -0800 Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:55:46 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz law violation ??? References: <199701022342.AAA02957@atom.bbtt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"4L-1X.0.eW6.t9Rpo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1030 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > accelerate > rotor when the load is connected. Flux is increasing when the coil is moving > to the pole of magnet, and flux is decreasing when the coil is moving out of > the pole of magnet. Lenz Law is true working here to accelerate rotor if the > load is connected. > Hi Alex, What is new here? Flux normally increases as the coil or flux gate element moves closer to the field pole. The problem is that the flux generated by the coil as output current is drawn will oppose this increasing flux and will increase overall system reluctance and reduce flux, resulting in reduced attraction as output power is drawn. If you can provide more info, I will do a magnetic analysis of the Gramm generator for you. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:16:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA25526; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:15:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:15:11 -0800 Message-ID: <32D42988.339B@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:41:04 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..PM configuration... References: <3.0.32.19970108142052.0096d580@mail.localaccess.com> <32D3DE4E.495E@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ztPZy1.0.lE6.yf2ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1125 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Sorry, I don't buy this explaination. That's just not how flux works. Hi Bob, Sorry but you are wrong and Epitaxy and Stephan are right. Look at my gifs. You need to think about the ferrite block's role in this affair. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:21:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA27175; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:19:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:19:33 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108151950.00977c9c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 15:19:51 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz's Law --> Demagnetization Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"qPlhE2.0.Ne6.2k2ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1126 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In order for the two equal magnets to demagnetize each other they would have to be subjected to mechanical shock (often happens in real world) or high temperature (Curie point). Two equal magnets do not demagnetize each other. Of course a stronger magnet can demagnetize a weaker one because the stronger one can subject the weaker magnet to a field above its demagnetization threshold. This topic has been already covered in the "Magnetic Energy" posts. A simple experiment on two repelling ring magnets on a stick can be performed that demonstrates that permanent magnets do not demagnetize themselves without strong environmental factors. This is true even if the magnets are made to constantly bounce on this stick. At 10:40 PM 1/8/97 +1030, you wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: >> >> The total flux in the gap is greater than with a single magnet, there >> are just two, uncrossing sets of flux, one from each magnet. You can >> push and distort the field of one with another, but you cannot reduce >> the total flux of the two. > >Hi Bob, > >Don't forget that two opposing magnets will demag each other by >moving their operation point further down their B/H curves, but >other that that what you say is correct and can be shown by simulation. > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:21:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA27287; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:20:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:20:10 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108152020.0097b324@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 15:20:24 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"LlcVk3.0.Cg6.bk2ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1127 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: But Greg... If what you write is correct: "...output current will induce a opposing flux flow which will reduce total system flux..." than how do you reconcile the fact that two opposing permanent magnets (ie. S-S with a gap between them) will attract the magnetic shield into the gap STRONGER than one non-opposed magnet. This is demonstrated in the "accelerating turntable" experiment described yesterday on vortex-l. Robert's setup doesn't use two equal permanent magnets like the turntable experiment but the magnetic flux produced in Robert's setup is statically EQUIVALENT to the flux produced by the two PM. 1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more and more of an ALIKE magnetic pole (compared to the PM, as the plate approaches the gap) to compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the PM (caused by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If not - why not ? I have verified using three methods (details on vortex-l, last five days) that the coil indeed responds by producing an ALIKE magnetic pole when the magnetic shield shields the coil from the PM on the other side of the gap (shield in the middle). This is easily explained with Lenz law: The coil first "sees" all of the flux from the permanent magnet and than DOES NOT see almost any of the flux from PM after the shield moves in the gap. According to Lenz law the coil will resist this change in perceived magnetic flux and try to maintain the "status quo" by generating the same magnetic pole for itself. This way (if the coil is superconductive) the magnetic field at the coil remains THE SAME. The coil is the "ultimate conservative" like Rush Limbaugh Please look up my posts on "Len'z law harnessing/violating" and my original post from December '95 "Could please somebody Criticize this" for detailed discussion of these phenomena. At 11:01 PM 1/8/97 +1030, you wrote: >Dorman, Robert wrote: >> >> Now a current flow through the loaded coil, when produced by the shield >> making and breaking the flux that the coil sees, might produce a >> magnetic field that would oppose the magnetic field of the permanant >> magnet--the strength of this opposing field being proportional to the >> electrical load. What I don't see, though, is how this would produce an >> inhibiting force on the rotation of the disk/shield. If anything, it >> should tend to offset the permanant magnet's field and REDUCE the >> magnetic drag on the disk, allowing the disk to speed up rather than >> slow down when under load. >> > >Hi Robert, > >As your disk/shield is magnetically conductive it is attracted to the >point of max flux (your poles). Your system induces voltage into the >output coil by varing the total system reluctance. In other words, the >total system flux varies from a min to a max value. Max flux will occur >when your moving disk/shield is at the point of max magnetic attraction. > >As your system moves to the point of max attraction/flux, flux flowing >through the output coil is increasing and any output current will induce >a opposing flux flow which will reduce total system flux. As the force >of attraction is related to the square of the flux density any current >drawn from the output coil effects the load seen by the rotary driving >source. > >If you could send me some more technical data on your idea, I will do >a simulation for you. > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:22:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA27601; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:21:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:21:01 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108152056.00976c70@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 15:20:57 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Flux superposition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"adi232.0.Wk6.Jl2ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1128 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I can sense your knowledge in these matters and that is why I what you to comment on these issues. I was under the impression that flux in space and ferromagnetic materials differs only in density. Your statement about the ferrite domains is very curious to me since Bob Shannon wrote yesterday that the ferrite shielding effect is mainly due to induced eddy currents and that rendering a magnetic shield nonconductive will decrease its magnetic shielding properties. I would like you to answer these 3 questions to see what your point of view is: *** Look up my post from December "Could somebody criticize this" for details and illustrations. (I can email it privately if you can't find it) *** 1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the PM (caused by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If not - why not ? 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz law, it will produce a magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate shields the coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total shielding ? If not - why not ? 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent magnets in the turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of undesirable eddy currents in the plate. BTW: Do you enjoy this sort of thing ? At 09:08 AM 1/9/97 +1030, you wrote: >Hi Epitaxy, > >Thanks for the post with my comments. > >Seems we are talking about two different things. Flux flowing in >space will not sum and add. The flux lines only distort. Flux >flowing in a ferrite is a different thing. The ferrite's domains >have no ability to resist flux, they only align to the sum of the >fluxes trying to align them. My recent posts and the attached gifs >show that you are right in your two magnet example with the iron >plate. I can also post gifs which show that my statements on flux >summing in ferrite flux paths is also right. I have spent many years >studying, building and measuring flux gate type devices. My comments >are based on actual experience and not just hunches or simulations. I >would encourage you to use the Quick Field software. It is VERY good. > >My very best regards, >Greg > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:39:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA02681 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:38:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:38:21 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Wed Jan 8 15:36:53 1997 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA02031 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:36:33 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp30.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.158]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id KAA00454 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:35:55 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32D42E71.742F@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:02:01 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Lenz's Law.....] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5A8C67833D3" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5A8C67833D3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------5A8C67833D3 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <32D41E21.1382@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 08:52:25 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@mail.enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..... References: <32D2EACD.6CF4@tiac.net> <32D38EC1.33D1@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D38267.22FE@tiac.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B4C46C6289" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B4C46C6289 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again, Here is a more detailed NN configuration. Note the magnets repelled flux allows more flux to enter the ferrite block and hense increase its domain alignments and therefore its attraction into the gap. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------B4C46C6289 Content-Type: image/gif; name="magounn2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="magounn2.gif" R0lGODlhgALgAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBKQEVKSkVAT8BAQEpKRU pLS0vFSkpGx0dPwEBPz8BAQE/PwE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Lenz's Law.....] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------7CA814C81EC5" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------7CA814C81EC5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------7CA814C81EC5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <32D41F0F.24C3@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 08:56:23 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@mail.enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..... References: <32D2EACD.6CF4@tiac.net> <32D38EC1.33D1@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D38267.22FE@tiac.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------FD69403310" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------FD69403310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again, Here is the more detailed NS configuration. As Stephan suggessted, the NS config draws more of the flux directly from the left hand north pole to the right hand south pole, leaving very little for the ferrite to grab. As the flux flowing in the ferrite is small, so to is its domain alignment and hense its attraction into the gap. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------FD69403310 Content-Type: image/gif; name="magouns2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="magouns2.gif" R0lGODlhgALgAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBKQEVKSkVAT8BAQEpKRU pLS0vFSkpGx0dPwEBPz8BAQE/PwE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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--------------7CA814C81EC5-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:42:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA03693; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:40:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:40:29 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:39:23 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19961008173529.70574674@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Perpetual Magnetic Rotor. Resent-Message-ID: <"5s2sE2.0.bu.Q13ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1129 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, rectify it to a tuned frequency, better to have several tuned tank ckts and rectify and then charge a leyden jar maybe or bank of caps!!! If the diodes and the caps don't breakdown, you could probably build up a good amount of electricty I am sure. Thanks Mike S. There was an aticle in a recent, last two or three issues of tesla magazine about somebody who did it. If you want the month magazine let me know and I will get it to you. thanks Mike S. At 02:00 PM 1/8/97 -0800, you wrote: > >IT IS SIMPLE: To recover energy from random AC noise - RECTIFY IT and >charge a capacitor with it. > >This way even if the AC noise averages to zero after the rectification the >DC output will equal to the average value of the random AC waveform. > >At 11:02 AM 1/8/97 GMT, you wrote: >>On Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:30:25 -0800, redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert >>) wrote: >> >>_>Charles Ford wrote: >>_>> >>[snip] >>_>> Gentelmen: >> >>_>> I have some of my own half baked idias about whare this energy is coming >>_>> from. If the device finds a cycle that resenates whith the ambiant noise >>_>> existing in the earth's EM field, it could hook into and run exclusivaly >>_>> from this vast energy resource. >>[snip] >> >>_>"Ambient noise" is random, whereas to resonate with something, you must >>_>match its periodicity or some integer multiple thereof. Since you cannot >>_>correlate to noise; that is, tune some sort of receiver to follow every >>_>up and down movement of its voltage--since you would need prior >>_>knowledge of that random voltage in order to do this, and you can't have >>_>that knowledge because the noise is random--than I do not see how you >>_>could draw any power out of such random atmospheric EM noise. >>_>--Bob Dorman >> >>Yes, "Ambient noise" is random. But if you did a fourier analysis of >>it you would find all frequencies within your bandwidth present. >>If you tuned to *one* frequency (or a narrow band) you would >>still recover *some* energy (equal to the ratio of the bandwidths). >>If there is enough energy there to start with you could indeed >>get a useable amount with quite a narrow bandwidth. It all hinges >>on how much energy there is in the "Ambient noise". >> >>Also, if any sort of resonance is involved, random spikes of noise >>are going to tend to set the resonant "thingy" ringing through shock >>exitation (just like if you throw a handfull of gravel at a bell - the >> >>result won't be very musical but the bell *will* ring). >> >>Cheers All, >>Alan >> >> >>====================================================== >>Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. >> - Michael Sinz >>====================================================== >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:47:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA06605; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:46:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:46:30 -0800 Message-ID: <32D430DC.147D@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:12:20 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law --> Demagnetization References: <3.0.32.19970108151950.00977c9c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kSjr21.0.0d1.I73ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1130 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > In order for the two equal magnets to demagnetize each other they would > have to be subjected to mechanical shock (often happens in real world) or > high temperature (Curie point). Two equal magnets do not demagnetize each > other. > > Of course a stronger magnet can demagnetize a weaker one because the > stronger one can subject the weaker magnet to a field above its > demagnetization threshold. > HI Epitaxy, Don't confuse permanent demag with movement of the magnet's operation point along its B/H curve. B/H normal curve flux changes happen all the time. They will not to my understanding cause energy loss and/or permanent loss of flux. Magnetic demag of a magnet requires the magnet to be subjected to demag forces exceeding the magnets max A/M specs. Stay within the max A/M spec and the magnet will just slide up and down its B/H curve. This is one of the basis of all magnetic design work. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 15:49:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA06847; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:47:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 15:47:16 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108154720.0097c244@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 15:47:22 -0800 To: bshannon@tiac.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Iron plate attraction --> the TIMING issue Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"rDeOj3.0.Yg1.z73ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1131 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The coil responds by producing an ALIKE magnetic pole when the magnetic shield shields the coil from the PM on the other side of the gap (shield in the middle). This is easily explained with Lenz law: The coil first "sees" all of the flux from the permanent magnet and than DOES NOT see almost any of the flux from PM after the shield moves in the gap. According to Lenz law the coil will resist this change in perceived magnetic flux and try to maintain the "status quo" by generating the same magnetic pole for itself. This way (if the coil is superconductive) the magnetic field at the coil remains THE SAME. The coil is the "ultimate conservative" like Rush Limbaugh Why do you say that fast change will induce large mechanical counterforce ? Below I am including an excerpt from my answer to Stefan Hartman from couple days ago on the timing issue. ********************************************************************** THE TIMING ISSUE The electric current accumulated in the coil during the approach phase will cause an undesirable back drag on the departing plate from the gap, by creating an alike magnetic pole at the coil. However the departing plate is not very strongly attracted back into the gap before the trailing edge of the plate leaves the gap. (attraction vs. position of the plate has a parabolic relationship) This means that the coil has a relatively long time to discharge before the remaining current starts having the maximum back drag attraction when the trailing edge of the plate starts leaving the gap (this time is straight proportional to the width of the plate (not thickness)) Furthermore discharging the current in the coil (preferably into useful load) at the high voltage DOES NOT increase the strength of the magnetic pole generated by the coil. Some people wrote to me that if you discharge a coil at high voltage 1000 times faster than charging the coil, 1000 more magnetic intensity will be produced for this short time according to conservation of energy - THIS IS VERY WRONG ! Now that we have the charge/discharge times vs. magnetic field intensity out of the way, it can be easily seen that the 1 millisecond back drag on the departing plate from the gap happens at the same magnetic intensity as the forward 1 second attraction ( varying attraction of the plate aside). Considering the inertia of the plate, the 1 second forward attraction will give the plate considerably more momentum than the 1 millisecond back drag attraction, will take away. (both are happening at the same magnetic intensity). On top of that we have the nonlinearity of attraction vs. plate position which I just described above and the constant dissipation of energy in the load and coil resistance (by the way, this decreases the forward attraction) Somebody suggested advancing the coil discharge time to eliminate the backdrag completely, but this would also decrease the forward attraction accordingly. ********************************************************************** At 05:44 PM 1/8/97 +0000, you wrote: >> Do you agree that in such a case the closed superconductive coil will >> respond by producing a mirror of the PM pole (exactly the same intensity), >> when the plate completely shields the PM. ? > Err, ahh, if the plate fully shields the PM, why would there be an induced field at all? I'm not understanding something here it seems. >Ok, if you short/open the coil, we get a really fast change in it's >field. > >This change will induce a large counterforce. (due to the high rate of >change) > >How will this reduce drag? > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 16:03:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA13390; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:01:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:01:33 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108160149.009739e4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 16:01:52 -0800 To: bshannon@tiac.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..PM configuration... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"98Fs73.0.3H3.OL3ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1132 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes this is a very hairy issue. I wish it got settled. What matters the most is that the 2 opposed magnets attract the plate STRONGER than one non opposed magnet. You just cannot ignore the turntable experiment results. I really wish I could explain it very well. BTW: the below flux superposition explanation is Stefan Hartmans'. I wonder how he will reply to your objection ? At 05:50 PM 1/8/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> Appears correct to me although I don't think Greg Watson will like it. >> >> Comments anybody ? >> >> At 01:04 PM 1/8/97 +0100, Stefan Hartman wrote: >> > >> >Well, that 2 S-S PMs would attract the iron plate better than >> >2 N-S alligned PMs is pretty clear ! >> >With the S-S configuration allmost all flux is coming out of the gap, >> >cause the poles repell each other, so this flux "grabbs" all material >> >it can attract ! >> >With the N-S configuration, only some stray-flux is coming out of the gap, >> >thus less flux to "grabb" any iron material is there at a distance ! >> >Pretty easy to visualize and understand ! >> > >> >Regards, Stefan. > >So just becuase more flux extends outside the gap, there is more >attraction? > >Why is flux outside the gap yeilding more attraction than the same flux >inside the gap? Do you expect to get more attraction than with the >magents aiding? > >Sorry, I don't buy this explaination. That's just not how flux works. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 17:15:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA13094; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:13:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:13:41 -0800 Message-ID: <32D4454D.1315@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 11:39:33 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..PM configuration... References: <3.0.32.19970108160149.009739e4@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EUPq4.0.SC3.1P4ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1133 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Yes this is a very hairy issue. I wish it got settled. > What matters the most is that the 2 opposed magnets attract the plate > STRONGER than one non opposed magnet. You just cannot ignore the turntable > experiment results. I really wish I could explain it very well. > Hi Epitaxy I have got it explained, just need to figure out why my gifs don't come out of the freenrg server. Have sent them several times. Help! -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 17:16:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA13699; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:15:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:15:32 -0800 Message-ID: <32D445BF.2025@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 11:41:27 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: No graphic?] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2E1D2E7C2567" Resent-Message-ID: <"d4R5J1.0.lL3.mQ4ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1134 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2E1D2E7C2567 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------2E1D2E7C2567 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <32D4322A.1712@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:17:54 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@mail.enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: w9sz@prairienet.org Subject: Re: No graphic? References: <199701082343.RAA09005@bluestem.prairienet.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zack Widup wrote: > > > > >Hi Guys, > > > >I have sent several gifs and jpgs to the group, but haven't had any > >back. Have you seen any posts for me with attached gif/jps images? > > > > Hi Greg, > > I don't think I've received any from you here. There were some from Mr. > Naudin a while back. > > Zack > > -- Hi Zack, Are there limitations as to the size of mail messages that this mail server will allow? Thanks for the speedy reply as I have some very interesting GIFs to post. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------2E1D2E7C2567-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 17:56:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA26578; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:50:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:50:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32D44D8E.6E49@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:14:46 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Flux superposition References: <3.0.32.19970108151229.00975810@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KLgpE2.0.2T6.7x4ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1135 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > I can sense your knowledge in these matters and that is why I what you to > comment on these issues. > > I was under the impression that flux in space and ferromagnetic materials > differs only in density. > If I can ever get the freenrg server to echo my gifs you will see what I say is true. > Your statement about the ferrite domains is very curious to me since Bob > Shannon wrote yesterday that the ferrite shielding effect is mainly due to > induced eddy currents and that rendering a magnetic shield nonconductive > will decrease its magnetic shielding properties. > While eddy currents can effect shielding, the main idea behind shielding is to provide a low reluctance path for the unwanted flux to follow. Mu metal is normally used because it is soft and easily worked and offers the flux a good low reluctance path to follow. Eddy currents can cause unwanted side effects as the current flowing in the material will generate magnetic fields on BOTH sides of the material. > I would like you to answer these 3 questions to see what your point of view > is: > > *** Look up my post from December "Could somebody criticize this" for > details and illustrations. (I can email it privately if you can't find it) > *** > > 1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more > and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to > compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the PM (caused by the > increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If not - > why not ? Yes, as the coil senses a reduction in the flux density, its inductance will drop and draw additional current from the source to boost its self generated field to match the loss of flux from the shielded magnet. > > 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz > law, it will produce a magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity as the > permanent magnet, WHEN the plate shields the coil from the PM (ie. upon > reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total shielding ? If not - why > not ? I don't really have a lot of first hand experience with superconductors but my first answer still holds. Assuming the coil has reached max current and a stable field, it will draw more power to generate a stronger field to match any decline in the field generated by the PM. > > 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the > coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, > just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent > magnets in the turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? Of course this is true. However there will be a difference in the field patterns generated by a PM and a electromagnet. This is because the domains in the PM are very resistance to altering their alignment from an external field, but the domains in the ferrite used in the electromagnet are very soft and very sensitive to changes in the field strength and field direction. In other words, the electromagnet's field will suffer much greater distortion than the PM's field. > > Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of > undesirable eddy currents in the plate. > > BTW: Do you enjoy this sort of thing ? Very much, keeps the grey cells ticking over. > > At 09:08 AM 1/9/97 +1030, you wrote: > >Hi Epitaxy, > > > >Thanks for the post with my comments. > > > >Seems we are talking about two different things. Flux flowing in > >space will not sum and add. The flux lines only distort. Flux > >flowing in a ferrite is a different thing. The ferrite's domains > >have no ability to resist flux, they only align to the sum of the > >fluxes trying to align them. My recent posts and the attached gifs > >show that you are right in your two magnet example with the iron > >plate. I can also post gifs which show that my statements on flux > >summing in ferrite flux paths is also right. I have spent many years > >studying, building and measuring flux gate type devices. My comments > >are based on actual experience and not just hunches or simulations. I > >would encourage you to use the Quick Field software. It is VERY good. > > > >My very best regards, > >Greg > > > >-- > >Best Regards, > >Greg Watson, Hi Epitaxy, If I can ever get my gifs through, all will be clear. In my simulation the NN config attracted the ferrite block from 5 - 15 times more strongly than the NS config. The field pictures look great and really tell the story. I am still working on further simulations as there are several other effects to consider than have not even been brought up here. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 17:57:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA26645; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:50:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:50:45 -0800 Date: 08 Jan 97 20:46:22 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields Message-ID: <970109014621_71232.360_GHL93-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"dAdC7.0.JT6.Bx4ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1136 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Whoever this is addressed to.... 1) the mechanical motion makes up for the straight-line DC current. Otherwise motors and generators could not work. A transformer has no mechanical motion, therefore it must rely on current and voltage variation to achieve its induction. When the mechanical motion is present, that variation is not required to achieve induction. According to your theory, motors and generators do not and cannot work, since there is certainly no magnetic flux in the permanent magnets that run them. Their fields are as unchanging as a monofilar coil with both ends hooked up to a battery. But it still works. Hmmmm. 2) you can't say that using a bifilar coil "will not work" strictly because Bearden says so. I accept that by Bearden's theory it won't work. I don't accept that Bearden's theory is necessarily correct. I have yet to see or hear of even one of his theories being proven in actual practice. And they've had a whole lot of years to become proven. For all he claims to have the end-all answers to, the world is pretty much the same as if he never showed up. I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm saying he's not proven any of his theories correct, at least in my mind. 3) I don't think Patrick Flanagan's neurophone achieves true vector superposition either, but it works very well. He uses scalar coils. If an armature in motion is encountering a reversal of EM field polarity every time it traverses the distance of 60 gauge wire, that'll be close enough to achieve the effect, just like a bunch of bumpy, fuzzy atoms close enough together can achieve the net effect of, say, a very shiny, smooth surface in a mirror. It's not truly shiny, is it? But the effect is achieved regardless. 4) it's an INverse field I'm looking for, not a REverse one, where the only effect is a reversal in polarity or direction of current flow. I think you're getting the two confused. Anyway, enough theory. Theory has problems with liquid helium and theory said nitrogen was inert and lots of other problems have plagued theory over the years. Theory doesn't have a very good track record in and of itself. It's a good complement to experimentation but it will never replace it. I have to start buliding this thing; I prefer to let reality and not thinking be the final judge of whether anything can come of it. Maybe nothing will, but at least I'll be deciding based on actual experimentation. -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 18:06:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA31953; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:03:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:03:39 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108180203.00957b98@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 18:02:04 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Eddy currents Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"uwlU41.0.3o7.U75ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1137 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ATTN: Bob Shannon, what do you think of Gregs Reply At 12:14 PM 1/9/97 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: >> Epitaxy wrote: >> Your statement about the ferrite domains is very curious to me since Bob >> Shannon wrote yesterday that the ferrite shielding effect is mainly due to >> induced eddy currents and that rendering a magnetic shield nonconductive >> will decrease its magnetic shielding properties. >> Bob Shannon is right and wrong in his shielding statement. Eddy currents play some part, but not much. Most shielding is just the magnets external flux lines flowing through some ferrite material so they don't flow where you don't want them. While eddy currents can effect shielding, the main idea behind shielding is to provide a low reluctance path for the unwanted flux to follow. Mu metal is normally used because it is soft and easily worked and offers the flux a good low reluctance path to follow. Eddy currents can cause unwanted side effects as the current flowing in the material will generate magnetic fields on BOTH sides of the material. Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 18:17:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA02505; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:15:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 18:15:57 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970108181601.009577d0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 18:16:02 -0800 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Flux superposition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"2m46z3.0.vc.MJ5ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1138 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW At 12:14 PM 1/9/97 +1030, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: >> I would like you to answer these 3 questions to see what your point of view >> is: >> >> *** Look up my post from December "Could somebody criticize this" for >> details and illustrations. (I can email it privately if you can't find it) >> *** >> >> 1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more >> and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to >> compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the PM (caused by the >> increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If not - >> why not ? > >Yes, as the coil senses a reduction in the flux density, its inductance >will >drop and draw additional current from the source to boost its self >generated >field to match the loss of flux from the shielded magnet. Please note that in my example there is NO EXTERNAL POWER SOURCE. The coil is short circuited during the approach of the plate into the gap. >> >> 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz >> law, it will produce a magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity as the >> permanent magnet, WHEN the plate shields the coil from the PM (ie. upon >> reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total shielding ? If not - why >> not ? >I don't really have a lot of first hand experience with superconductors >but >my first answer still holds. Assuming the coil has reached max current >and >a stable field, it will draw more power to generate a stronger field to >match >any decline in the field generated by the PM. It just is easier to analyze things with ideal components (ie. inductor). I posed the superconductor idea to eliminate the current dissipation in the coil windings and any energy losses. This ensures that at the and the coil will circulate (in its windings) all of the current built up during the approach phase of the plate thus re-generating the "missing" flux from the shielded PM. It jus is easier to analyze things with ideal components (ie. inductor) >> 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the >> coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, >> just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent >> magnets in the turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? >Of course this is true. However there will be a difference in the field >patterns generated by a PM and a electromagnet. This is because the >domains in the PM are very resistance to altering their alignment from an >external field, but the domains in the ferrite used in the electromagnet are very >soft and very sensitive to changes in the field strength and field >direction. >In other words, the electromagnet's field will suffer much greater >distortion than the PM's field. What if a coreless, low resistance (or superconductive) coil is used. This is similar to using a copper plate with eddy current loop induced in it (the problem with this is that the copper plate is not easily open circuited) >> Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of >> undesirable eddy currents in the plate. >> >> BTW: Do you enjoy this sort of thing ? > Very much, keeps the grey cells ticking over. Good BTW: I also had problems with the freenrg-l listserv echoing attachments but the vortex-l server works great ! The vortex WWW page is at http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wvort.html subscription info is there. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 21:07:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA15671; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:06:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:06:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:38:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701090438.UAA08120@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Joseph Tates Antenna Resent-Message-ID: <"N5_Zi2.0.Wq3.Dp7ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1139 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TO ALL: HAS ANYONE DUPLICATED JOSEPH TATES ANTENNA, IF SO WHAT WAS THE OUTPUT, I HAVE A FRIEND WHO TALKED TO JOSEPH A FEW YEARS AGO, JOSEPH TOLD HIM HE GOT EIGHT TO TEN WATS OUT OF IT. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 22:55:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA11155; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:53:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:53:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 07:50:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199701090650.HAA03801@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Iron plate attraction --> the TIMING issue Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, JNaudin509@aol.com, Puthoff@aol.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"I-Z4t1.0.Ak2.rN9ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1140 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Furthermore discharging the current in the coil (preferably into useful >load) at the high voltage DOES NOT increase the strength of the magnetic >pole generated by the coil. Some people wrote to me that if you discharge >a coil at high voltage 1000 times faster than charging the coil, 1000 more >magnetic intensity will be produced for this short time according to >conservation of energy - THIS IS VERY WRONG ! Yes, this is very wrong ! The current in a coil CAN NOT JUMP ! Thus , if you open the coil, there will be a huge induction voltage, but the current wants to keep its direction and level and if a fluorescent bulb in parallel "flashes" off the stored magnetic energy, the current just goes from the last value, when the coil was still shortened, just in a fast time to zero, but will NOT jump ! Thus also the flux will NOT jump ! So there is NO big back drag on the iron plate cause the flux will just also go to zero and thus the coil is "discharged very quickly without having a big effect on the iron plate ! >Now that we have the charge/discharge times vs. magnetic field intensity >out of the way, it can be easily seen that the 1 millisecond back drag on >the departing plate from the gap happens at the same magnetic intensity as >the forward 1 second attraction ( varying attraction of the plate aside). >Considering the inertia of the plate, the 1 second forward attraction will >give the plate considerably more momentum than the 1 millisecond back drag >attraction, will take away. (both are happening at the same magnetic >intensity). > I agree. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 22:55:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA11168; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:53:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:53:50 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 07:49:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199701090649.HAA03793@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, JNaudin509@aol.com, Puthoff@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"vWjpu1.0.Nk2.uN9ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1141 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >Hi Epitaxy, > >If I can ever get my gifs through, all will be clear. In my simulation >the NN config attracted the ferrite block from 5 - 15 times more >strongly than the NS config. The field pictures look great and really >tell the story. Yes, Mr. Spock would say: It is totally logical ! :) The reppelling poles cause the magnetic field to come out of the gap very strong, so at a pretty far distance you already have pretty dense magnetic flux, which will already attract any iron plate ! Not so when you have a N-S configuration, where only very small stray- flux comes out of the gap ! There is not much flux at a=20 distance to pull any iron plate into the gap ! > >I am still working on further simulations as there are several other >effects to consider than have not even been brought up here. Well, Bob Shannon is wrong with almost all of his comments ! Eddy currents do NOT play any role, if you use the right materials ! Use ferrite or laminated iron plates and you can forget the eddy current problems ! Then it has no effect on the basic ideas ! The basic idea is shielding away the flux from the coil and thus inducing in it a helping magnetic field to help pull the iron plate into the gap and thus harnessing the Lenz Law ! That is all it is and eddy currents and any kind of shielding because of eddy currents DO NOT play any role, because there WILL BE NO EDDY CURRENTS, because we will use the right materials ! Also already our formulars on the Ecklin-Bedini Flux switch generator SHOW, that there is overunity possible with using the right materials and the right paramters ! So if Bob Shannons still says it is wrong, he has to prove our formulars wrong, which have been calculated from normal electrodynamics ! And until now, nobody has found any real error in the formulars ! And yes, some flux gate converters have failed, but some are also said to produce overunity.... To put an end to the discussion, we will build such a unit according to our= =20 formulars, so we can predict, what we will get and thus optimize the building parameters for the magnets, coils and gate dimensions. The Neodymium magnets are already ordered and will come in next week. The Permax iron core material will hopefully also come in soon. In these magnetic flux converters, there is the fact, that there is not much back drag on the rotor, when you draw more current from the output coils ! This is a proven fact also validated by Dieter Bauer=B4s differential equatations ! See http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm (Ecklin-Bedini= article) Also Bob Shannon seems to have not understood some facts about the Newman machines a few month ago, when I tried to explain it in detail to him on the vortex-list, now he also does not understand the magnetic flux switch principles and says: "all have failed", which is not true ! Indeed Mr. Naudin=B4s recent test unit presented over here=20 already showed, that drawing power from his device (idle operation losses not counted) only increased the input for 3 Watts and he got about 3.5 Watts out in one test ! And it was just a crude small setup device with small weak Bariumferrite Magnets ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 22:55:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA11346; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:54:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 22:54:38 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 07:50:32 +0100 Message-Id: <199701090650.HAA03803@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Can this circuit go overunity ??? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, JNaudin509@aol.com, Puthoff@aol.com Resent-Message-ID: <"-LCfM3.0.5n2.eO9ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1142 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have already thought long time about this circuit I finally now drawed via ASCII art ! Please use an equally spaced font to view this email ! What about this no moving parts flux switch circuit ? +-----------------------------------------+ | ferrite core (no eddy currents !) | +--+---------------+ +------------+ | | N| | | O| |O output coil L1 | | | | O| |O | | Flux |____| O| |O | | shorter O O O|____|O----+ | S| coil L2 O d2 O | d1 | +--+--------------|------|----------|-----+ | | | | | | | +-----------------|------|----------|-----+ | | | | | o o o o a b c d I am pondering about this magnetic flux switch, where you have one output coil L1 and a second flux shortening coil L2. The permanent magnet at the left side generates the permanent magnetic flux and leads them via the ferrite core to the 2 magnetic air gaps d1 and d2. If d1 is a 1 mm big air gap and d2 is a 10 mm big air gap, then the dimension ratio is d2/d1=10/1=10, thus 10 times more flux will go through the d1 gap than through d2. Now imagine, we use the flux shorter coil L2 to add a magnetic field to overcome the airgap and help allmost all flux from the permanent magnet go through airgap d2 instead of d1 ! Now the flux in output coil L1 is reduced and thus an induction voltage is induced in the output coil L1. Next step, shut off the power to coil L2 and the full 10:1 flux ration in d1 will appear again, thus the flux rises again in output coil L1 and thus an induction voltage is induced in the output coil L1. Now I bet the timing of the power to L2 and the load timing on L1 is very important for this circuit to get it to overunity. Also when current is drawn from L1, there will be again the Lenz law opposing a back field onto the core, etc... There must be a good timing of the load switched onto coil L1 and powering the shorter coil L2 so these Lenz Law effects will be reduced or canceled. Also the energy put into L2 can be got back into useful energy , if one uses the stored magnetic energy of this coil e.g. to "flash" it into a fluorescent bulb and thus getting back light energy ! Please give me any comments on this circuit ! Thanks a lot in advance. Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 8 23:58:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA29923; Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:57:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 23:57:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:54:36 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: Greg Watson cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: No graphic? In-Reply-To: <32D42605.3525@mail.enternet.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-NDY9.0.SJ7.dJAro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1143 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Hi Guys, > I have sent several gifs and jpgs to the group, but haven't had any > back. Have you seen any posts for me with attached gif/jps images? > Greg Watson Consulting, > Adelaide, South Australia, > gwatson@enternet.com.au > sorry greg, have to admit, i've not seen then either. were they 'attached', 'uudecoded', or sent through an aussie firewall?? :) -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 03:00:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA25869; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 02:59:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 02:59:29 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 05:58:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970109055852_1559383597@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : No graphic? Resent-Message-ID: <"shx5o.0.2K6.F-Cro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1144 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To : gwatson@enternet.com.au On 09/01/1997 00:23:10, you wrote : << Hi Guys, I have sent several gifs and jpgs to the group, but haven't had any back. Have you seen any posts for me with attached gif/jps images? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au >> Hi Greg, I haven't receive any of your graphics. I think that their size are too big, I suggest you to convert your graphics files in GIF or JPEG, the file size must be less than 25 K. Mail center convert these files in Mime64 (Ascii 7bits) format for send it through the web. For freenrg-l web server this received files must be have less than 40 K after Ascii 7 bits conversion. I suggest you, If you have a Mime64 file convert tools, to try to convert your graphic's file in Ascii 7 bits before send it, just for verify the result size (<40 K). Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin Email: JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 09:11:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA02095; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:09:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:09:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 08:41:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701091641.IAA09549@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! Resent-Message-ID: <"IiZ6E.0.WW.HPIro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1145 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:49 AM 1/9/97 +0100, you wrote: > >> >>Hi Epitaxy, >> >>If I can ever get my gifs through, all will be clear. See if you can compress your gifs more. Then resize them, so they won,t be so big, try reducing resolution. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 09:54:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA14934; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:53:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:53:21 -0800 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 09:53:22 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: Joseph Tates Antenna Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"4DOZK3.0.Ef3.F2Jro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1146 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can anyone give me a simple outline of the TATES antenna mentioned below. Thanks in advance. Byrun. > TO ALL: HAS ANYONE DUPLICATED JOSEPH TATES ANTENNA, IF SO WHAT WAS THE >OUTPUT, I HAVE A FRIEND WHO TALKED TO JOSEPH A FEW YEARS AGO, JOSEPH TOLD >HIM HE GOT EIGHT TO TEN WATS OUT OF IT. >crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES >WESLEY CROSIAR >PO BOX 268 >SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 10:39:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA24452; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:38:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:38:10 -0800 Message-ID: <32D4F4AD.581B@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:37:49 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! References: <199701090649.HAA03793@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jyRDS2.0.yz5.FiJro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1147 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > >Hi Epitaxy, > > > >If I can ever get my gifs through, all will be clear. In my simulation > >the NN config attracted the ferrite block from 5 - 15 times more > >strongly than the NS config. The field pictures look great and really > >tell the story. > > Yes, Mr. Spock would say: > It is totally logical ! :) > > The reppelling poles cause the magnetic field to come out of the > gap very strong, so at a pretty far distance you already > have pretty dense magnetic flux, which will already > attract any iron plate ! > > Not so when you have a N-S configuration, where only very small > stray- flux comes out of the gap ! There is not much flux at a > distance to pull any iron plate into the gap ! > > > > >I am still working on further simulations as there are several other > >effects to consider than have not even been brought up here. > > Well, Bob Shannon is wrong with almost all of his comments ! > > Eddy currents do NOT play any role, if you use the right materials ! > Use ferrite or laminated iron plates and you can forget the eddy current > problems ! Then it has no effect on the basic ideas ! > The basic idea is shielding away the flux from the coil and thus > inducing in it a helping magnetic field to help pull the iron plate > into the gap and thus harnessing the Lenz Law ! > That is all it is and eddy currents and any kind of shielding because > of eddy currents DO NOT play any role, because there WILL BE NO EDDY > CURRENTS, because we will use the right materials ! Please mr. Hartmann, what material has NO Eddy currents, but still shields a magnetic field? > Also already our formulars on the Ecklin-Bedini Flux switch generator > SHOW, that there is overunity possible with using the right > materials and the right paramters ! > > So if Bob Shannons still says it is wrong, he has to prove our > formulars wrong, which have been calculated from normal electrodynamics ! Wrong Mr. Hartmann, the burden of proof rests with you. You must prove that your formulae are correct descriptions of reality by producing and testing your device. > And until now, nobody has found any real error in the formulars ! > > And yes, some flux gate converters have failed, but some are also > said to produce overunity.... > > To put an end to the discussion, we will build such a unit according to our > formulars, so we can predict, what we will get and thus optimize > the building parameters for the magnets, coils and gate dimensions. > > The Neodymium magnets are already ordered and will come in next week. > The Permax iron core material will hopefully also come in soon. > > In these magnetic flux converters, there is the fact, that there is not much > back drag on the rotor, when you draw more current from the output coils ! > This is a proven fact also validated by Dieter Bauer´s differential > equatations ! See http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm (Ecklin-Bedini article) > > Also Bob Shannon seems to have not understood some facts about the Newman > machines a few month ago, when I tried to explain it in detail to him on the > vortex-list, now he also does not understand the magnetic flux switch > principles and says: "all have failed", which is not true ! > Indeed Mr. Naudin´s recent test unit presented over here > already showed, that drawing power > from his device (idle operation losses not counted) > only increased the input for 3 Watts and > he got about 3.5 Watts out in one test ! > And it was just a crude small setup device with small weak Bariumferrite > Magnets ! I have never subscribed to the vortex list Stefan. I may have missed something. If you notice, other posters have questions Mr. Naudin's results, so it may be premature to accept them as proof just yet. DePlama's N machine has shown cases where an increase in load did not appear to be met with a direct increase in counterforce, yet the N machine has failed to reach 100% efficieny never the less. Why is this so? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 10:45:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA25650; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:44:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 10:44:21 -0800 Message-ID: <32D4F622.1C88@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:44:02 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Eddy currents References: <3.0.32.19970108180203.00957b98@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M17Ei1.0.cG6.2oJro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1148 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > ATTN: Bob Shannon, what do you think of Gregs Reply > > At 12:14 PM 1/9/97 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: > > >> Epitaxy wrote: > >> Your statement about the ferrite domains is very curious to me since Bob > >> Shannon wrote yesterday that the ferrite shielding effect is mainly due to > >> induced eddy currents and that rendering a magnetic shield nonconductive > >> will decrease its magnetic shielding properties. > >> > > > > Bob Shannon is right and wrong in his shielding statement. Eddy currents play > some part, but not much. Most shielding is just the magnets external flux > lines flowing through some ferrite material so they don't flow where you don't > want them. > > Well, my opions are all wrong according to Mr. Hartmann anyway, so what the heck? LEt me ask this, if the shielding is due to the 'flux lines flowing through some ferrite material so they dont flow where you dont want them', and if this shield is moving relative to this flux, why will there not be significant Eddy currents. Eddy currents are not restricted to a given scale, but are present at the atomic level as well. Of course, I'm probably wrong yet again, right? > > While eddy currents can effect shielding, the main idea behind shielding > is to provide a low reluctance path for the unwanted flux to follow. Mu > metal is normally used because it is soft and easily worked and offers the > flux a good low reluctance path to follow. Eddy currents can cause unwanted > side effects as the current flowing in the material will generate magnetic > fields on BOTH sides of the material. Exactly right! In this case, the secondary magnetic field has effectivly bypassed the shielding, save the energy lost in those pesky Eddy currents! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 11:09:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA30644; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:08:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:08:41 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32D3D464.46DD@tiac.net> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Thu, 9 Jan 97 08:15:47 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy. Reply on Ronald de Mol... Lines: 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ENHNo1.0.jU7.r8Kro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1149 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, I have all Feynman's lectures, publication of 1964, many books. But humor is that I see the same definition for energy and for power like I made above. So, different persons see different ideas in the same textbooks. It is one of the properties of our mind. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 11:25:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA03240; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:24:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:24:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:23:50 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701091923.UAA25495@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Lenz's Law..PM configuration... Resent-Message-ID: <"i7w9L2.0.Go.jNKro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1150 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: >Yes this is a very hairy issue. I wish it got settled. >What matters the most is that the 2 opposed magnets attract the plate >STRONGER than one non opposed magnet. You just cannot ignore the turntable >experiment results. I really wish I could explain it very well. > Forgive my intrusion as a non-expert, but for one thing, two magnets would always seem better than one, doubling the attracting force. However there seems to be also a difference in attraction between the NS and the SS configuration, with the opposing (SS) exerting a stronger attraction than the NS one. (Ide proved that in his design). Might it just be an effect of a mutual deformation of the opposing fields and therefore, as Stefan suggests, of more flux (or more of a field) being outside the gap, and thus providing a longer time for the attraction, 'reaching out' further towards the iron plate? - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 11:31:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA07928; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:30:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:30:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32D500C9.647@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:29:29 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields References: <970109014621_71232.360_GHL93-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aXgLe.0.gx1.xSKro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1151 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Malcheski wrote: > > Whoever this is addressed to.... > > 1) the mechanical motion makes up for the straight-line DC current. Otherwise > motors and generators could not work. A transformer has no mechanical motion, > therefore it must rely on current and voltage variation to achieve its > induction. When the mechanical motion is present, that variation is not > required to achieve induction. According to your theory, motors and generators > do not and cannot work, since there is certainly no magnetic flux in the > permanent magnets that run them. Their fields are as unchanging as a monofilar > coil with both ends hooked up to a battery. But it still works. Hmmmm. Ok, I have failed to make myself clear here. If you feed a bifilar coil with DC, the magnetic lines of force will seek a geometery where none cross opposed lines, and the degree of magnetic field cancellation will suffer accordingly. If changing fields are produced by feeding the same coil with an AC current, scalar production will be far greater. You may find that the opposition fields, and the vector superposition of fields are quite different where the production of scalars is concened. If you review Mr. Bearden's theories, you will find a discussion of the need to suppress any EM bleedoff before the potnetial will express itself as a scalar. If you look into the math behind this, the importnace of the rate of change should become clear as well. There is a degree of truth to both of these points. This has absolutely nothing to do with conventional motors or generators. Please review my original posting. I had only attempted to suggest some simplifications and improvements. > 2) you can't say that using a bifilar coil "will not work" strictly because > Bearden says so. I accept that by Bearden's theory it won't work. I don't > accept that Bearden's theory is necessarily correct. I have yet to see or hear > of even one of his theories being proven in actual practice. And they've had a > whole lot of years to become proven. For all he claims to have the end-all > answers to, the world is pretty much the same as if he never showed up. I'm not > saying he's wrong, I'm saying he's not proven any of his theories correct, at > least in my mind. Several points here: 1. I did not state that bifilar coils will not work, re-read my posting. 2. Mr. Beardens theory does not state that bifilar coils will not work either, even if this is what you accept. I did not claim that Mr. Bearden's theory stated this either. Again, please re-read my original posting, and review Mr. Bearden's works. 3. If you have not heard of any of Mr. Beardens theories being experimentally tested and verified, you are somewhat less than well informed in this area. There has been a great deal of emperical research on scalar technology, both private and professional. A good deal of research has been well funded, and conducted by professional engineers and researchers. The majority of the results exist in the form of trade secrets, and is often closely guarded, as mentioned in my original posting. It is true that this emerpical research and testing have often produced quite different results than Mr. Bearden's theories claim, and I have often posted on this specific subject in the past. These postings are based on emperical work, not theory. > 3) I don't think Patrick Flanagan's neurophone achieves true vector > superposition either, but it works very well. He uses scalar coils. If an > armature in motion is encountering a reversal of EM field polarity every time it > traverses the distance of 60 gauge wire, that'll be close enough to achieve the > effect, just like a bunch of bumpy, fuzzy atoms close enough together can > achieve the net effect of, say, a very shiny, smooth surface in a mirror. It's > not truly shiny, is it? But the effect is achieved regardless. The orignal Neurophone did not use coils at all, but capacitive electrodes. Yes, it works, but the process by which it works is a subject of some dispute. Scalar theory is not the only explaination of the neurophone's operation. > 4) it's an INverse field I'm looking for, not a Reverse one, where the only > effect is a reversal in polarity or direction of current flow. I think you're > getting the two confused. It's not at all clear that I made myself well understood in my orignal posting. As the responsability for being understood falls on the speaker, this is my fault. I do not beleive that I have confused inverse and reverse fields at all. If a scalar can pass through a faraday cage without interaction, why will it induce anything in your coil? > Anyway, enough theory. Theory has problems with liquid helium and theory said > nitrogen was inert and lots of other problems have plagued theory over the > years. Theory doesn't have a very good track record in and of itself. It's a > good complement to experimentation but it will never replace it. I have to > start buliding this thing; I prefer to let reality and not thinking be the final > judge of whether anything can come of it. Maybe nothing will, but at least I'll > be deciding based on actual experimentation. > > -- Chris I have never suggested that theory can or should replace actual experimentation. I assumed the reason for your post was an invitation to discuss the subject. In this light, I thought I might offer some thoughts based on my many years of emperical work in engineering actual, working scalar devices. As there is a lack of practical data on scalar engineering, I had thougt that some direct experiance might have been welcome. Clearly I was quite incorrect on these points. My apologies for ever suggesting any alterations of your experiment, and for offering any views you mat not share. Best of luck in your work Mr. Malcheski. Bob Shannon. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 12:36:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA09084; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:35:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:35:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5088D.6A96@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 15:02:37 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy. Reply on Ronald de Mol... References: <32D3D464.46DD@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ANELF.0.iD2.VQLro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1152 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Yes, I have all Feynman's lectures, publication of 1964, many books. But > humor is that I see the same definition for energy and for power like I > made above. > > So, different persons see different ideas in the same textbooks. It is one > of the properties of our mind. > > --- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 If you check my posting, you will see that the distinction I was making was between potential and energy, not energy and power. Please recheck the original postings. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 12:54:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA18428; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:52:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:52:56 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970109125302.0095853c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 12:53:04 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Eddy currents Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"er5Um1.0.nV4.YgLro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1153 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hey Bob, don't take Hartman's strong words to hart. I value your criticism of my ideas. I was thinking about it like this. If the Macroscopic eddy currents in a piece of iron (or other ferromagnetic) were the major effect contributing to magnetic shielding then a static iron plate would not shield magnetic field because as soon as the iron plate stopped moving, the macroscopic eddy currents in it would be dissipated in the resistance of the iron very quickly. The experience shows us that the iron plate will shield magnetic field even when it is stationary, furthermore this shielding effect WILL PERSIST perpetually and is NOT perceivably weaker than the shielding effect of a moving iron plate. If the phenomena of magnetism is indeed caused by the perpetual electron motion around the nucleus and these miniature electron current loops indeed produce polarized magnetic distortions like some small eddy currents than you are right about attributing the shielding effect to them. There are however, significant differences between the electron motion and macroscopic eddy currents. The former are intrinsically perpetual and do not dissipate energy (unless orbital transitions occur + EM radiation). By rendering a magnetic shield non-conductive the macroscopic eddy currents are greatly suppressed in magnitude. Experimentally: A powdered iron disk does NOT exhibit any perceivable eddy braking while a solid iron or copper disk DOES exhibit a very strong eddy braking effect. At the same time the powdered iron disk shields the magnetic field AS WELL as the solid iron plate. To try this at home get a strong neodymium magnet and quickly wiggle it above the surface of the powdered iron, solid iron and copper and observe the eddy braking effect. Of course the macroscopic eddy currents will contribute to magnetic shielding properties of a MOVING material (ie. copper or iron disk) by opposing the magnetic flux, but that is a separate phenomenon that will cause the shielding material to develop equal opposite poles on both sides of the shielding material. At 01:44 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote: >> Bob Shannon is right and wrong in his shielding statement. Eddy currents play >> some part, but not much. Most shielding is just the magnets external flux >> lines flowing through some ferrite material so they don't flow where you don't >> want them. >> >> > >Well, my opions are all wrong according to Mr. Hartmann anyway, so what >the heck? > >LEt me ask this, if the shielding is due to the 'flux lines flowing >through some ferrite material so they dont flow where you dont want >them', and if this shield is moving relative to this flux, why will >there not be significant Eddy currents. > >Eddy currents are not restricted to a given scale, but are present at >the atomic level as well. Of course, I'm probably wrong yet again, >right? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 13:11:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA29792; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:09:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:09:41 -0800 Date: 09 Jan 97 16:08:01 EST From: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@CompuServe.COM> To: list owner Subject: ATTABOY! Message-ID: <970109210800_103510.1772_IHL100-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"0Hwym2.0.1H7.GwLro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Glenn F. Hinton, 103510,1772 TO: freenrg-L, INTERNET:@eskimo.com DATE: 1/9/97 9:50 AM RE: Copy of: ATTABOY! Chris Malcheski wrote: <"Anyway, enough theory. Theory has problems with liquid helium and theory said Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:42:49 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! References: <199701090649.HAA03793@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rBsBK1.0.iL.L1Mro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > The reppelling poles cause the magnetic field to come out of the > gap very strong, so at a pretty far distance you already > have pretty dense magnetic flux, which will already > attract any iron plate ! > > Not so when you have a N-S configuration, where only very small > stray- flux comes out of the gap ! There is not much flux at a > distance to pull any iron plate into the gap ! > You are totally correct. > Eddy currents do NOT play any role, if you use the right materials ! Again you are very correct, just be carefull as eddy currents can sneak in where you don't excect them. > > And until now, nobody has found any real error in the formulars ! > Natural laws don't obey man's formulars, be carefull again. > In these magnetic flux converters, there is the fact, that there is not much > back drag on the rotor, when you draw more current from the output coils ! > This is a proven fact also validated by Dieter Bauer´s differential > equatations ! See http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm (Ecklin-Bedini article) Sorry Stephan but I can't agree here. You may wish the effect not to happen but it does. I have built and tested more variations of flux gate devices than I care to remember. ALL with the same result. I wish you luck but I strongly believe you have choosen the wrong path. You are now where I was 2-3 years ago. But I will await the results with interest. You have my help if required. Just ask. > > Also Bob Shannon seems to have not understood some facts about the Newman > machines a few month ago, when I tried to explain it in detail to him on the I now believe I can explain why a Newman motor works as in does. > vortex-list, now he also does not understand the magnetic flux switch > principles and says: "all have failed", which is not true ! I would tend to agree with Bob but would like to simulate each case on a case by case basis. > Indeed Mr. Naudin´s recent test unit presented over here > already showed, that drawing power > from his device (idle operation losses not counted) > only increased the input for 3 Watts and > he got about 3.5 Watts out in one test ! > And it was just a crude small setup device with small weak Bariumferrite > Magnets ! Don't know about that device. > > Regards, Stefan. Hi Stephan, Good luck with your battle with natural laws but would suggest studying my rotor gifs very carefully before spending too much money. Will send them direct. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 13:21:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA02748; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:19:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:19:36 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970109131932.0095c710@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:19:34 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"IAupV2.0.Xg.U3Mro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been running my ideas of the Lenz law harnessing principles through the gauntlet of vortex-L and freenrg-L and NOBODY has voiced a VALID objection that stood its ground yet ! This either means that either these ideas are right or you guys are not trying hard enough. For the people reading this subject thread for the first time, this series of posts explores the overunity principles of such designs as LIAG, Ecklin, Bedini... etc. The original post was posted by me in December 1996 on vortex-l under the subject "Could somebody criticize this please...", "Liag, Ecklin,..., demystified" and in January under "Lenz law ... harnessing/violating". The exploration of these underlaying principles will hopefully allow a construction of a working prototype WITH THE ATTENTION TO the most important construction factors. (ie. Bedini's design is NOT well optimized to achieve overunity operation) Several simple experiments were described to verify the "component phenomena" in order to observe how different parameters contribute to overunity operation. I challenge anyone to answer the 3 following questions AFTER reading ALL of the threads mentioned above. (Please really read the previous posts on these subject or we will be uselessly covering what was already explored) *** Look up my post from December "Could somebody criticize this" for details and illustrations. (I can email it privately if you can't find it) *** 1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the Permanent Magnet (caused by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If not - why not ? 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz law, it will produce an ALIKE magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity and polarity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate completely shields the coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total theoretical shielding ? If not - why not ? 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of undesirable eddy currents in the plate. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 13:56:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA01885; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:55:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:55:22 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970109133526.00957ed0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:35:27 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Lenz Law Harnessing --> THE NUTS & BOLTS of the design ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"AURkm2.0.LT.9bMro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1157 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: HERE IS THE LIST OF IMPORTANT THINGS TO WATCH FOR WHEN CONSTRUCTING OVERUNITY EM MACHINES For the people reading this subject thread for the first time, this series of posts explores the overunity principles of such designs as LIAG, Ecklin, Bedini... etc. The original post was posted by me in December 1996 on vortex-l under the subject "Could somebody criticize this please...", "Liag, Ecklin,..., demystified" and in January under "Lenz law ... harnessing/violating". Several simple experiments were described to verify the "component phenomena" in order to observe how different parameters contribute to overunity operation. So far NOBODY has voiced a valid objection to these ideas that stood its ground. The exploration of these underlaying principles will hopefully allow a construction of a working prototype WITH THE ATTENTION TO the most important construction factors. (ie. Bedini's design is NOT well optimized to achieve overunity operation) I hope the concepts, theories, relationship and phenomena you, I and others on the lists have worked out will allow us to construct a working device with the ATTENTION to the important factors: P.S. You MUST read the previous posts (referenced above) in order to understand what it is all about. ************************ THE LIST ***************************** 1) the coil has to have the lowest resistance possible to maximize the induced magnetic pole during the shield approach phase. This also means high current through the coil and switching circuitry. 2) the coil has to have as many turns as possible in order to minimize resistive switching losses by maximizing the output voltage. This conflicts with #1 but can be reconciled with a superconducting wire or more practically tightly packed coil with square cross section wire. 3) the switch or switching transistors have to have the lowest resistance possible during clousure yet be able to withstand as high voltage as possible in the open condition 4) the permanent magnets should be as strong as possible 5) the gap should be as small as possible 6) the magnetic shield has to be able to shield as much of the magnetic flux from the PM as possible yet maintaining a small thickness to minimize the gap. Larger shield will shield more flux. 7) the magnetic shield might be best constructed with two sandwitched parallel plates separated by air or other nonmagnetic material in order to prevent the penetration of the magnetic flux through the shield 8) The magnetic shield should be non-conductive in order to suppress the eddy currents. 9) If the shield follows a circular path it should be curved in order to not change transverse position in the gap 10) the mechanical suspension of the moving shield should allow minimum transverse movement of the shield in the gap 11) the time the shield spends in the gap (depending on the width of the plate) should be accounted for when calculating the coil discharge time (although shorter is always better) 12) During the shield approach phase the whole coil circuit should have as little resistance as possible in order to maximize the coil current and thus the induced magnetic pole intensity (for the forward attraction) 13) During the shield departure phase the whole coil circuit should have as much resistance as possible without destroying the switching circuitry. 14) Advancing the time of coil discharge only wastes efficiency because it shortens the forward attraction phase 15) The flux paths of the whole device may be closed with ferromagnetic material (similar to Bedini design). However the PM and the coil (or PMs & coils) should be directly AT the gap in order to minimize the "softness" and magnetic resistance of the flux guiding ferromagnetic material. 16) If this device did not have any electric & magnetic losses and was using only ideal components, IT would be self starting and would accelerate 200% each time the shield passes through the gap. In a realistic device the internal losses will prevent overunity operation until certain shield velocity is reached after which the device will be self accelerating until the air resistance, mechanical friction and eddy currents will increase causing "terminal velocity" effect. No external power input is required for this device except for initially overcoming the initial losses. 17) the electrical output from the coil collected at the beginning of each departure phase can be used for any purpose including aiding the acceleration of the shield. Although the device should be perpetual and self accelerating even if this energy is simply discarded (dissipated somewhere else) SOURCING TIPS Neodymium magnets are cheaply obtainable from BAD 5.25 inch computer hard drives (like the Seagate 1GB drives). These drives are available from drive repair shops, computer shops, dealers electronic junk yards or hard drive OEM itself. Hint: 500MB and up 5.25 drives with voice coil actuator use these magnets. Broken hard drives typicaly sell for $10 USD or less Good bearings and whole spindle assemblies are available from Video Cassette Players especially the old 3/4 inch tape machines (VHS & Beta also but smaller size). There are generally two spindles in each: the video head and capstan. Broken VCRs typicaly sell for $10 USD or less A phenomenal magnetic shielding material (moldable) is sold by Muller Magnetics ( http://www.aa.net/~mwm/magnet/mmag2.html ) they purport to have a overunity generator and developed this material especially for it. They call this material Amorphous Polycrystaline. (they do not openly admit it is OU though) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 14:10:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA05577; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:08:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:08:48 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970109140901.0077af08@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:09:02 -0800 To: bshannon@tiac.net, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Eddy currents Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"dtyxT1.0.-M1.jnMro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1158 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The conclusion is: these small currents in the ferrite you mention are perpetual and lossless, true macroscopic eddy currents are dissipated in the resistance of the material and therefore are different phenomena. Do you disagree with this particular statement ? Also as far as I could measure, the powdered iron plate has THE SAME shielding properties as a solid iron plate when it is NOT moving. At the same time the powdered iron plate DOES NOT experience eddy braking effect (when it is moving) while solid iron plate DOES experience eddy braking. This difference apparently happens because the macroscopic eddy currents are suppressed in the non-conductive powdered iron plate ! BTW: Eddy braking = Lenz law. What other conclusion can be drawn from this experiment ? I will dare to venture that a ferromagnetic material will be attracted by a permanent magnet and will shield magnetic field EVEN IF all of the macroscopic eddy currents are ELIMINATED. Furthermore the macroscopic (non-perpetual) eddy current DO NOT EXIST in a NON MOVING (static) situation since they are quickly dissipated in the resistance of the ferromagnetic material. The lossless & perpetual atomic or molecular currents do not waste energy in my designs and are not a problem, in fact they are an asset. >Also, if the shield was perfect, how would current be induced in the >coil while the shield was between magnet and coil? I've not seen this >addressed yet. How can you even ask the above question ! This particular issue is THE FOUNDATION of my ideas and has been raised many, many times. (And of course the shield is not and does not need to be perfect) THE ANSWER IS: The coil has current induced in it (and the magnetic pole) according to the Lenz law. To put it simply: When the shield is AWAY from the gap the coil "sees" the full strength of the magnetic pole produced by the PM on the other side of the gap. When the shield moves IN THE GAP the coil DOES NOT "see" the magnetic pole produced by the PM on the other side of the gap. The coil responds to this change by circulating current through its windings and PRODUCING its own magnetic pole (of the same strength and polarity, if no resistive losses) in order to COMPENSATE for the perceived change (Lenz law). At 04:03 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote: >> Epitaxy wrote: >> If the Macroscopic eddy currents in a piece of iron (or other >> ferromagnetic) were the major effect contributing to magnetic shielding >> then a static iron plate would not shield magnetic field because as soon as >> the iron plate stopped moving, the macroscopic eddy currents in it would be >> dissipated in the resistance of the iron very quickly. The experience >> shows us that the iron plate will shield magnetic field even when it is >> stationary, furthermore this shielding effect WILL PERSIST perpetually and >> is NOT perceivably weaker than the shielding effect of a moving iron plate. >> If the phenomena of magnetism is indeed caused by the perpetual electron >> motion around the nucleus and these miniature electron current loops indeed >> produce polarized magnetic distortions like some small eddy currents than >> you are right about attributing the shielding effect to them. There are >> however, significant differences between the electron motion and >> macroscopic eddy currents. The former are intrinsically perpetual and do >> not dissipate energy (unless orbital transitions occur + EM radiation). By >> rendering a magnetic shield non-conductive the macroscopic eddy currents >> are greatly suppressed in magnitude. >> >> Experimentally: A powdered iron disk does NOT exhibit any perceivable eddy >> braking while a solid iron or copper disk DOES exhibit a very strong eddy >> braking effect. At the same time the powdered iron disk shields the >> magnetic field AS WELL as the solid iron plate. To try this at home get a >> strong neodymium magnet and quickly wiggle it above the surface of the >> powdered iron, solid iron and copper and observe the eddy braking effect. >I question the conclusions being drawn here. >Ferrite has small marcoscopic Eddy currents, but also saturates quickly >as a direct result. It's shielding effects are not at all the same as >an iron plate, but it seems as if these are being treated as >interchangable components. >As the disk moves at higher speeds, the induced Eddy currents will react >in kind, and the disk will quickly fail to shield the magentic fields. >Of course, at some point, this will be true for the iron as well. > >Also, if the shield was perfect, how would current be induced in the >coil while the shield was between magnet and coil? I've not seen this >addressed yet. > >> Of course the macroscopic eddy currents will contribute to magnetic >> shielding properties of a MOVING material (ie. copper or iron disk) by >> opposing the magnetic flux, but that is a separate phenomenon that will >> cause the shielding material to develop equal opposite poles on both sides >> of the shielding material. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 14:22:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA08533; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:21:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:21:25 -0800 Message-ID: <32D51F6B.AF0@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 16:43:34 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! References: <3.0.32.19970109131932.0095c710@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nAXks2.0.E52.bzMro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1159 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > 1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more > and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to > compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the Permanent Magnet (caused > by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If > not - why not ? > > 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz > law, it will produce an ALIKE magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity > and polarity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate completely shields the > coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total > theoretical shielding ? If not - why not ? If totally shielded, then no flux is cut by the coil, right? If no flux is cut, no voltage is induced, right? I've read most, if not all the earlier posts, and have asked about this point before but have missed it's being addressed so far. > 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the > coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, > just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent > magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? See above questions. > Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of > undesirable eddy currents in the plate. Again, please show me a material without marcoscopic or microscopic Eddy currents that also shields a magentic field. I know of no such material, and ferrite does not even come close to this 'perfect' shield. To stop the magentic field without any Eddy currents would seem to violate Lenz's law, would it not? You can provide a path of lesser resistance, and the majority of flux will follow this path, but not all of it, unless that alternate path had no resistance at all, as in a superconductor. Sadly, Superconductors have huge Eddy currents, which is why they preclude magnetic fields in the first place. Are we going around in circles here yet? Would Mr. Hartmann care to point out any errors, or to reccomend a magnetic shielding material without any Eddy currents? Better yet, build these devices, and provide real data! All the calculations in the world prove nothing about real world performance. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 15:01:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA22690; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:58:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 14:58:49 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:58:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970109175804_1991397908@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: bshannon@tiac.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! Resent-Message-ID: <"2hIRv1.0.KY5.bWNro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1160 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 09/01/1997 20:03:22, freenrg-l@eskimo.com you wrote : << > Indeed Mr. Naudin's recent test unit presented over here > already showed, that drawing power > from his device (idle operation losses not counted) > only increased the input for 3 Watts and > he got about 3.5 Watts out in one test ! > And it was just a crude small setup device with small weak Bariumferrite > Magnets ! >> << If you notice, other posters have questions Mr. Naudin's results, so it may be premature to accept them as proof just yet. >> I agree with you Bob, It is too early to celebrate victory with my G-Field experiment. I think that the only real proof of the existence of an overunity machine, will be given when this machine will be connected in self-working mode WITHOUT external KNOWN-TODAY power source. We are in good way, but the road is long ahead......... "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is." ( from Bob E-mail of 20/12/96) ....... Jean-Louis Naudin Email: JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 15:34:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA30301; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:33:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:33:12 -0800 Message-ID: <32D539D1.7E0B@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 18:32:49 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! References: <970109175804_1991397908@emout19.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QLllR1.0.KP7.t0Oro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1161 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > On 09/01/1997 20:03:22, freenrg-l@eskimo.com you wrote : > << > > Indeed Mr. Naudin's recent test unit presented over here > > already showed, that drawing power > > from his device (idle operation losses not counted) > > only increased the input for 3 Watts and > > he got about 3.5 Watts out in one test ! > > And it was just a crude small setup device with small weak Bariumferrite > > Magnets ! > >> > > << If you notice, other posters have questions Mr. Naudin's results, so it > may be premature to accept them as proof just yet. > >> > > I agree with you Bob, It is too early to celebrate victory with my G-Field > experiment. I think that the only real proof of the existence of an overunity > machine, will be given when this machine will be connected in self-working > mode WITHOUT external KNOWN-TODAY power source. > > We are in good way, but the road is long ahead......... > > "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in > practice, there is." ( from Bob E-mail of 20/12/96) ....... > > Jean-Louis Naudin > Email: JNaudin509@aol.com Agreed! Even a device with no power input, and some power output cannot easily claim to be over unity. As an example, the Barkhausen Effect battery design (in the not your average construction projects section of Bill's web site) needs more careful examination. Do we know that as current is drawn from the coil that there is no work done against the magnets? If there is, then this design may not be over unity, even without any external energy input at all! I've been waiting to hear this objection raised, but have not yet, and so I must raise this question myself. I feel that many are too quick to accept what they wish to beleive, and too slow to apply what they know to be true. Do you have data on the power factors (phase angle between current and voltage) for the input and output energy in your device? Were these factors taken into account in the energy calculations? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 15:59:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA03119; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:58:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:58:08 -0800 Message-ID: <32D53F98.3874@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 18:57:28 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Eddy currents References: <3.0.32.19970109140901.0077af08@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DRChY.0.am.EOOro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1162 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > The conclusion is: these small currents in the ferrite you mention are > perpetual and lossless, true macroscopic eddy currents are dissipated in > the resistance of the material and therefore are different phenomena. Do > you disagree with this particular statement ? Yes. If the ferrite had no energy loss due to Eddy currents, it would not have any magnetic shielding properties. If I expose ferrite to an AC magnetic field, will heat be produced in the ferrite? (assuming the ferrite is fixed in place, etc.) Guess what? Heat is produced, hence there IS energy loss! > Also as far as I could measure, the powdered iron plate has THE SAME > shielding properties as a solid iron plate when it is NOT moving. At the > same time the powdered iron plate DOES NOT experience eddy braking effect > (when it is moving) while solid iron plate DOES experience eddy braking. > This difference apparently happens because the macroscopic eddy currents > are suppressed in the non-conductive powdered iron plate ! BTW: Eddy > braking = Lenz law. What other conclusion can be drawn from this experiment ? Several. Try the experiment above, and tell me that microscopic Eddy currents are lossless once again. > I will dare to venture that a ferromagnetic material will be attracted by a > permanent magnet and will shield magnetic field EVEN IF all of the > macroscopic eddy currents are ELIMINATED. Furthermore the macroscopic > (non-perpetual) eddy current DO NOT EXIST in a NON MOVING (static) > situation since they are quickly dissipated in the resistance of the > ferromagnetic material. If it's being attracted, it's got Eddy currents, macroscopic or otherwise, do you agree? > The lossless & perpetual atomic or molecular currents do not waste energy > in my designs and are not > a problem, in fact they are an asset. > > >Also, if the shield was perfect, how would current be induced in the > >coil while the shield was between magnet and coil? I've not seen this > >addressed yet. > > How can you even ask the above question ! This particular issue is THE > FOUNDATION of my ideas and has been raised many, many times. (And of > course the shield is not and does not need to be perfect) Exactly my point. > THE ANSWER IS: The coil has current induced in it (and the magnetic pole) > according to the Lenz law. So, this energy stored in the coil (which opposed this original change in flux, right?) is released while shielded. Fine, did you need to supply energy from the rotation of the shield to produce this induced, stored energy in the coil? If so, at what efficiency was this energy stored in the coil? Greater than 100%? Remember, this energy came from the mechanical rotation of the shield shaft, and not from the magent, right? > To put it simply: When the shield is AWAY from the gap the coil "sees" the > full strength of the magnetic pole produced by the PM on the other side of > the gap. When the shield moves IN THE GAP the coil DOES NOT "see" the > magnetic pole produced by the PM on the other side of the gap. The coil > responds to this change by circulating current through its windings and > PRODUCING its own magnetic pole (of the same strength and polarity, if no > resistive losses) in order to COMPENSATE for the perceived change (Lenz law). Ok, does this change the fact that shaft energy was used to store enegy into the coil? No. Does this system preclude the coil creating a counterforce to the change in flux while the shield is not in the gap? No. You cannot predict the actual performace from these two static cases. There will be a counterforce during the time that the magnetic field transfers mechanical energy into the coil (unshielded). Ferrite does not block changing flux in a lossless manner, as evidenced by the heating of a ferrite core by AC induction. The assumption that you can dynamicaly block a magnetic field without loss is incorrect. But you need not worry about fooling me, you have nature to deal with. Please bring on the actual measurments. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 16:29:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA08936; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:27:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 16:27:33 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:59:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701092359.PAA29548@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_852852850==_" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Joseph Tates Antenna X-Attachments: C:\WES\ANTENNA\AIRANT.HTM; C:\WES\ANTENNA\TATE.GIF; Resent-Message-ID: <"IhICw1.0.JB2.npOro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1163 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --=====================_852852850==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> TO ALL: HAS ANYONE DUPLICATED JOSEPH TATES ANTENNA, IF SO WHAT WAS THE >>> OUTPUT, I HAVE A FRIEND WHO TALKED TO JOSEPH A FEW YEARS AGO, JOSEPH TOLD >>> HIM HE GOT EIGHT TO TEN WATS OUT OF IT. >> >>Wow, I would like to try. Where do I get info on it? >> >>-Tom: I will try to attach it, if not try ww2.murray.net.au/users/egel/tate.htm >Leave off the tate.htm and you will find other files of interest. > >The antenna shown uses IN34'S which are switching diodes, if you look carefully it bears resemblence to tesla's antenna. It has a loading coil also. If it works, you could just keep adding voltage doubler circuits to increase voltage and store the charge in large capacitors. Looks like it could be built for a couple of bucks and a roll of scrap wire. TO ALL: TOM LIKED IT, MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE WILL TOO. --=====================_852852850==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="AIRANT.HTM" ` inro tate power from the air

Tate Power from the air

Solaris home page

Tate Ambient Power Module. Joseph Tate Last Known Address 760 Waldo Point Sausalito Ca (4965) 415 331 8150 332 9918 U.S. Patent 4,628,299

This design converts radio frequency energy to power that can be usefully applied in power devices such as clocks,radios and smoke detectors.

This design makes use of a doubler, splitter and rectifier.

The device has been known to give 36 volt/9 watts.

This devices does away for the need for batteries by extracting energy from natural and man made radio waves.

THe device uses a coil made of the following design 479 turns of #22 wire on a 3" plastic tube, the coil should be loosely wound as a close wound coil tends to reduce power collection. One end should be connected to unit at antenna connection point and the other to an antenna of your choice .

Other coil types could be used in your experiments such as sliding induction coils that is inside one another and find the best position by moving them in different positions.

Other coil types can be found by referencing any good book on radio fundamentals. Check out the Telsa type coils as well.

Power could be also enhanced by placing a tin foil pyramid under the coil as this seems to also improve power.

The power produced also seems to improve near bridges,ships and any thing containing a great deal of metal.

A high antenna wire seems to improve the running of unit although a 7 foot whip antenna worked reasonably well too.

A interesting side line is the inventor claims to be able to detect earthquakes by the rise and fall of energy levels.

Solaris home page

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Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qbV_D.0.-Q2.5rOro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1164 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Here we go with RLC circuits again! Most of these ideas seem to come out of the Bearden/Tesla camp with variations on an RLC tank circuit with time-variant circuit changes. To an engineer, these configurations bear remarkable resemblance to standard switching power supply techcniques and are very well documented. The PODMOD, by Richard MCGee, is the most notible example of this type of circuit. He has patented a device claiming O/U. It utilises 2 LC tank circuits basically shuffling current two and fro through a resistive load. Mr McGee gave a fast talking presentation at the Tesla Society Seminar one year (1993/4?). I have the video of the proceedings. At no point did he present a working model. Just a lot of technoweaze. Inspired and not deterred by this I wrote a series of programs to test some of his claims. My programs could simulate any kind of RLC tank circuit arrangement and used differential maths to simulate operation. This way I did not have to actually build any kind of working unit. I ignored losses and dealt only with perfect components. I tried just about every kind of cunning gyro gizmo dynamic circuit changes I could dream up. At one point I thought I actually had something until I found that I had a bug in the logic. But thats the inventor's curse! I was impressed by one thing: no matter what I did the total energy in the circuit/system remained at unity. I might point one more thing: Nobody, to date, has ever seen a working unit of a PODMOD from Richard McGee. Interested parties on the FREENRG list may want to ring the Tesla Society and confirm this fact. There was only one way I could find to elevate the total system energy and that was to change the value of the inductors or capacitors dynamically as oscillation proceeeded but normally this requires energy. Sorry to be a wet blanket, but dont believe me - try it yourself. Enjoying the discussions, Max. PS: Have download the magnetics simultor suggested by my college in South Australia and I look forward to swapping some ideas with the group. Stuart Rae wrote: > > Some time ago (and in another forum), there was an interesting discussion > regarding the behaviour of an LC tank in a circuit that looked something > like this, and used the interupted field of L1 to contribute an additional > charge to capacitor C2: > > ===== L1 > ---------------------/ \-000000 ----- > | | | > +ve | +ve > C1 | C2 > - ve --|< ------- -ve > | D1 | > --------------------------------------- > > The responses to the original experimenters post seemed to be a little less > than adequate with regard to the basic concept, and largely revolved around > the energy of the capacitors, in the form of .5 CV^2. Now this has been > bothering me for some time, so I'd like to suggest the following thought > experiment to members of this list for their comments (or abuse:). > > Consider the following circuit. > > S1 L > a----X--------OOOOOOO------------b > | | | | > - | | | | > --- X S2 X S3 --- > --- C1 | | --- C2 > + | | | | > | | | | > c--------------------------------d > > Where; > C1 & C2 are Capacitors, > S1 S2 & S3 are on/off switches, > L is an Inductance, > and a b c d are circuit reference points. > > At this point, disregard any resistive or other losses. > > Assume initially in the above circuit that all switches are open, and an > electrical charge is stored in capacitor C1. The electrical charge (Q) > contained in the capacitor is observed to be CV Coulombs, and its energy is > described as 0.5 CV^2 Joules. The clock is stopped. > > We now close switch S1, and leave switches S2 and S3 open. The clock is > started, and electrical charge commences to migrate from C1 to C2 through > the inductor L. Thus an electrical current occurs in the total circuit > a,b,d,c. As charge is transferred into C2, an associated magnetic field > expands about our inductor L. The clock is stopped. > > At this point in time, a calculable portion of our charge has been > transferred from C1 to C2. If we now examine the voltages across C1 and C2, > we find, from Q = CV, that the sum of the charges in the two capacitors is > equal to the original charge contained in C1. We now open switch S1, and > close switch S2 (S3 is still open). > > We restart the clock. The magnetic field of our inductor L, (containing > energy produced by the charge transfer, in the form of .5LI^2 Joules) now > starts to collapse. In doing so, it will try to maintain its initial > current at the previous level, and the voltage across it will rise in > opposition to the potential that now exists across C2. An electrical current > now flows in the circuit, L, b, d, S2. And energy from the magnetic field is > forced into capacitor C2 in the form of an electrical charge. The clock is > stopped. > > If we again examine the voltages across C1 and C2 and calculate their > charges, we find that the sum of these charges, is now greater than the > charge we had in C1 at the start. However, the sum of the energy they > contain, in the form of .5LI^2, will be less than we started with in C1 > originally. > > Am I in trouble yet? > > However, let's start the clock again, leaving the switches exactly the same. > As is the habit of an LC circuit, the charge of C2 will try to equalise, > and commences to migrate back through our inductor via the circuit b, L, S2, > d. An electrical current starts to flow in that circuit. Now, at that > point in time when the potential across C2 reaches zero, and the energy of > the capacitor (in the form of .5 CV^2) has been transposed into the magnetic > field of our inductor L (in the form of .5 LI^2) we again stop the clock. > > At this point, let's close S3, open S2, and close S1. > > Start the clock again. The energy from the collapsing magnetic field of our > inductor is now compelled to transfer itself into capacitor C1 via the > circuit c, S3, L, S1, a. To do so the voltage across the inductor will rise > to a level sufficient to maintain its initial current. When the magnetic > field has collapsed, stop the clock, and open all the switches. > > Now let's measure the voltage across C1 and calculate again how much charge > it contains. Let's also calculate the energy it now contains in the form of > .5 CV^2 Joules. > > In the absence of a rational explanation to the contrary shall I presume > that the obvious conclusion might just be correct? > > Stuart Rae. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 17:11:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA18141; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:10:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:10:43 -0800 Date: 09 Jan 97 20:08:45 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields Message-ID: <970110010844_71232.360_GHL52-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"CWVJm3.0.DR4.HSPro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1165 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy, >> If a scalar can pass through a faraday cage without interaction, why will it induce anything in your coil? << It *may* because the faraday cage was not in centrifugal motion, nor was the scalar field. >> I have never suggested that theory can or should replace actual experimentation. << I beg to differ. You declared with final authority what this device would and would not do, having no requirements for building one, meaning the results were all wrapped up, fully known and guaranteed based on theory alone. What you laid out was in my personal interpretation a plan for a modified transformer, which is completely beside the point of what I'm doing. I want to test the effects of the armature in mechanical motion going through various fields of whatever type. Because I was not willing to abandon my current design in favor of something that didn't even remotely resemble it based on your theory alone does not mean I don't appreciate your input, nor does it mean I'm not keeping it mind, and it certainly doesn't mean that your input isn't going to have a very positive effect somewhere down the road. There's an inbetween area that I don't think you're realizing exists; a person has more choice than to either accept or reject with totality whatever you offer. They can go somewhere in the middle with a stand of "okay, this is one more piece of input, hang onto it." It's not right and it's not wrong yet. It seems that maybe you require one or the other - either somebody totally falls in line with your thinking or else you feel they've totally rejected it. All I've rejected was the idea of not testing the design I wanted to test. I won't forget the armature and do something stationary. That's what everybody else is doing. I only rejected believing (deciding) it won't work before I build it to see. Clearly your level of knowledge in this area far exceeds mine. I'm just a dumb, curious, inexperienced amateur (the type of person who has made the majority (more than half) of the significant discoveries in history, because of the lack of knowledge of conventional theory to hold them back from actually building things). Again, we come back to things like liquid helium. "Don't bother to liquefy that, Jim, a billion years of theory has all the reasons why nothing will happen." By sheer odds alone you're probably right about most or all of what you're saying. I just want to see it for myself. Your post was not deleted. It's being saved permanently. I don't normally do that with stuff that I've outright rejected. I have a Levitron sitting here on my desk. Theory said it couldn't be done. Here it spins, floating about 1.5" above the desk, hovering in mid-air for over 3 minutes now with nothing but permanent magnets. Theory was wrong and this thing only exists because some guy decided to sit down and build the thing - rejecting the theory that dictated all the things that would not and could not happen. Theory is the only reason why this thing didn't exist until 1996. They had the technology to build it 200 years ago. Or more. They thought they already knew. And ... as (almost) always, it didn't come down to theory being WRONG, but simply INCOMPLETE. I'm looking for violations of present theory, like the Searl disk, like the Levitron, etc. That's all it comes down to. I'm not going to get very far on this goal if I allow theory to dictate what can't and won't happen. -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 17:25:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA21081; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:24:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:24:53 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:25:00 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199701100125.CAA27123@tomei.algonet.se> X-Sender: johnnyfg@mail.algonet.se (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: JohnnyFG@algonet.se (Johnny Feelgood) Subject: Re: Joseph Tates Antenna Resent-Message-ID: <"Af7gN1.0.I95.ZfPro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1166 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>> TO ALL: HAS ANYONE DUPLICATED JOSEPH TATES ANTENNA, IF SO WHAT WAS THE >>>> OUTPUT, I HAVE A FRIEND WHO TALKED TO JOSEPH A FEW YEARS AGO, JOSEPH TOLD >>>> HIM HE GOT EIGHT TO TEN WATS OUT OF IT. >>> >>>Wow, I would like to try. Where do I get info on it? >>> >>>-Tom: I will try to attach it, if not try >ww2.murray.net.au/users/egel/tate.htm >>Leave off the tate.htm and you will find other files of interest. http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/tate.htm Is the correct adress! exit --- I vote for a flat society - like internet! mailto:JohnnyFG@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~johnnyfg/index.htm From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 17:59:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA27921; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:58:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:58:20 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:57:55 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: Greg Watson cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: No graphic? In-Reply-To: <32D42605.3525@mail.enternet.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Hxkqi1.0.9q6.v8Qro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1167 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I have sent several gifs and jpgs to the group, but haven't had any > back. Have you seen any posts for me with attached gif/jps images? > > -- Oops! I just encountered your message about graphics. Freenrg-L is SUPPOSED to bounce large messages back to you, not just swallow them. See info below, part of the list of rules. Large graphics files should be placed on a web page, and the URL given out on Freenrg-L. Many email programs will even let one click on the URL in your email and immediately view the file via WWW. Some of the emailed graphics ended up in the mail archive. Go to http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrgl/flist.html and look at the "current month" file. If the gif/jpeg files were MIME attachments rather than UUENCODE, you should be able to save the whole archive file to your hard drive and then view it with your email program, and save the encoded MIME attachments. The main reason for the limit on Freenrg-L file size is that if the mail server was asked to send a 200K gif to over two hundred people, it would become uselessly slow. (even so, sometimes eskimo.com mail service becomes uselessly slow anyway!) The 40K limit is the default setting for freenrg-L. It could be set a bit higher. ************************************************************************** FREENRG-L RULES ( WARNING! PLEASE READ! ) 4. Small email files please. The limit is set to 40K right now, those exceeding the limit will be bounced back to you. Some members are on limited service, or have to pay for received email. Larger diagrams and graphics can be mailed directly to interested parties. Or, contact me and we can place them on the FREENRG-L webpage for viewing. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 18:32:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05837; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:30:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:30:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5A2D1.4C1@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:30:49 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Eddy currents References: <3.0.32.19970108180203.00957b98@mail.localaccess.com> <32D4F622.1C88@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Guvdv2.0.1R1.CdQro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1168 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > LEt me ask this, if the shielding is due to the 'flux lines flowing > through some ferrite material so they dont flow where you dont want > them', and if this shield is moving relative to this flux, why will > there not be significant Eddy currents. > Eddy currents don't really exist in modern ferromagnetic material with very high resistance. The shielding is due to the material offering unwanted flux a better (lower reluctance) path to flow. I have sent you some GIFS which show this effect. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 18:32:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05900; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:30:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:30:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5A4CF.77B3@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:39:19 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Eddy currents References: <3.0.32.19970109125302.0095853c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vNv6d3.0.qR1.NdQro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1169 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Hey Bob, don't take Hartman's strong words to hart. > They were my words. Did you get the gifs I sent directly? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 18:32:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05929; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:31:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:31:00 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5A477.5031@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:37:51 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ATTABOY! References: <970109210800_103510.1772_IHL100-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BoTPK2.0.GS1.QdQro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1170 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Glenn F. Hinton wrote: > > "Eventually, all planning and theory must degenerate into actual work" not > really sure who said that, but I like it! Hi Glenn, I agree completely and my comments are based on many years of actual device construction, testing and many....many hours trying to understand why my theory/hopes didn't happen. Been there, done that! My activity on this group is to try to get some actual work going. But in the proper way with a good understanding of natural laws and magnetics. There is a way, but we must fully understand mother nature and her laws. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 18:51:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA12605; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:50:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:50:15 -0800 From: warlord@LocalAccess.com Message-Id: <199701100250.SAA12538@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: warlord@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! Date: Thu, 9 Jan 97 18:49:59 PSTP+0000 X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"h_LxA1.0.d43.YvQro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1171 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE REPLIES ARE BETWEEN THE PARAGRAPHS BELOW At 04:43 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: > >> 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz >> law, it will produce an ALIKE magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity >> and polarity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate completely shields the >> coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total >> theoretical shielding ? If not - why not ? >If totally shielded, then no flux is cut by the coil, right? If no flux >is cut, no voltage is induced, right? ...for the sake of simplicity we assume the coil doesn't have resistive losses. I am assuming that the event described as "...flux is cut by the coil..." is equivalent to the event "...change of flux perceived by the coil...". If this is what you meant then the flux perceived by the coil is changing all the time during the shield's approach into the gap. This happens because the coil first sees ALL of the flux from the PM and later sees NONE. According to the Lenz Law the coil will resist this change by circulating current through its windings (and producing a magnetic pole) in order to compensate for this change. At the point of the shield's journey, when the shield is inside the gap and is shielding all of the PM's flux, the coil will have certain amount of current flowing through its windings. This flowing current will cause the coil to become an electromagnet in such a way that the electromagnet will be generating THE SAME amount of flux that the coil lost from the PM as a result of the shielding effect. >> 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the >> coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, >> just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent >> magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? > >See above questions. > >> Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of >> undesirable eddy currents in the plate. > >Again, please show me a material without marcoscopic or microscopic Eddy >currents that also shields a magentic field. I know of no such >material, and ferrite does not even come close to this 'perfect' shield. If you consider the electon motion as a microscopic eddy current, I do not know of any material that doesn't have it. BUT BUT BUT: The microscopic eddy currents are NOT THE SAME same as the macroscopic eddy currents. Namely microscopic eddy current are confined to each atom and are perpetuall and most importantly do not waste any energy, they do not combine into a large eddy current that causes a large eddy braking effect. That is why powdered iron does not exhibit eddy braking effect. Did you try to see the difference in eddy braking effect between the powdered iron disk and solid disk ? I did this experiment and there is an enormous difference ? During this experiment I also found out that the static powdered iron disk shields magnetic field AS WELL as the static solid iron disk (but without the eddy braking effect) >To stop the magentic field without any Eddy currents would seem to >violate Lenz's law, would it not? You can provide a path of lesser >resistance, and the majority of flux will follow this path, but not all >of it, unless that alternate path had no resistance at all, as in a >superconductor. >Sadly, Superconductors have huge Eddy currents, which is why they >preclude magnetic fields in the first place. >Are we going around in circles here yet? Would Mr. Hartmann care to >point out any errors, or to reccomend a magnetic shielding material >without any Eddy currents? >Better yet, build these devices, and provide real data! All the >calculations in the world prove nothing about real world performance. I absolutely agree. That is why I did the powdered iron disk experiments I described above. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 19:21:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA21969 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:21:38 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:21:38 -0800 X-Envelope-From: herman@college.antioch.edu Thu Jan 9 19:21:16 1997 Received: from college.antioch.edu (college.antioch.edu [192.131.123.11]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA21745; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:21:11 -0800 Received: by college.antioch.edu (SMI-8.6/1.63) id DAA23104; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:19:23 GMT Old-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:19:22 -0500 (EST) From: John Schnurer To: vortex-l@eskimo.com cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY ... In-Reply-To: <199701100250.SAA12537@mx1.eskimo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: yy Dear Vo, Just one or two notes, in text below. On Thu, 9 Jan 1997 warlord@localaccess.com wrote: > > THE REPLIES ARE BETWEEN THE PARAGRAPHS BELOW > > At 04:43 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Epitaxy wrote: > > > > > >> 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz > >> law, it will produce an ALIKE magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity > >> and polarity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate completely shields the > >> coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total > >> theoretical shielding ? If not - why not ? > > >If totally shielded, then no flux is cut by the coil, right? If no flux > >is cut, no voltage is induced, right? > > ...for the sake of simplicity we assume the coil doesn't have resistive losses. > > I am assuming that the event described as "...flux is cut by the coil..." is > equivalent to the event "...change of flux perceived by the coil...". If > this is what you meant then the flux perceived by the coil is changing all > the time during the shield's approach into the gap. This happens because the > coil first sees ALL of the flux from the PM and later sees NONE. A coil [shorted] of various Sc materials, within limits, will store and maintain current, unless acted on by other forces ..... presuming the material is below Bc1 and completely in the true Meissner phase. According > to the Lenz Law the coil will resist this change by circulating current > through its windings (and producing a magnetic pole) in order to compensate > for this change. At the point of the shield's journey, when the shield is > inside the gap and is shielding all of the PM's flux, the coil will have > certain amount of current flowing through its windings. This flowing > current will cause the coil to become an electromagnet in such a way that > the electromagnet will be generating THE SAME amount of flux that the coil > lost from the PM as a result of the shielding effect. > > >> 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the > >> coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, > >> just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent > >> magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? > > > >See above questions. > > > >> Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of > >> undesirable eddy currents in the plate. > > > >Again, please show me a material without marcoscopic or microscopic Eddy > >currents that also shields a magentic field. I know of no such > >material, and ferrite does not even come close to this 'perfect' shield. > > If you consider the electon motion as a microscopic eddy current, I do not > know of any material that doesn't have it. > > BUT BUT BUT: The microscopic eddy currents are NOT THE SAME same as the > macroscopic eddy currents. Namely microscopic eddy current are confined to > each atom and are perpetuall and most importantly do not waste any energy, > they do not combine into a large eddy current that causes a large eddy > braking effect. That is why powdered iron does not exhibit eddy braking effect. > > Did you try to see the difference in eddy braking effect between the > powdered iron disk and solid disk ? I did this experiment and there is an > enormous difference ? > There are eddy or, more formally Foucault currents in iron powder materials. In general the FC loss is less, but not zero. > During this experiment I also found out that the static powdered iron disk > shields magnetic field AS WELL as the static solid iron disk (but without > the eddy braking effect) > In general a powdered iron material will shield less well than a modern FeNi allow, particularly amorphous and thin tape wound or laminated materials. > >To stop the magentic field without any Eddy currents would seem to > >violate Lenz's law, would it not? You can provide a path of lesser > >resistance, and the majority of flux will follow this path, but not all > >of it, unless that alternate path had no resistance at all, as in a > >superconductor. > > >Sadly, Superconductors have huge Eddy currents, which is why they > >preclude magnetic fields in the first place. > Type I and type II Scs are profoundly different in magnetic effects, and none of it is simplistic. > >Are we going around in circles here yet? Would Mr. Hartmann care to > >point out any errors, or to reccomend a magnetic shielding material > >without any Eddy currents? > > >Better yet, build these devices, and provide real data! AMEN! Build!! All the > >calculations in the world prove nothing about real world performance. > > I absolutely agree. That is why I did the powdered iron disk experiments I > described above. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 19:43:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA31395; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:41:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 19:41:32 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:37:05 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! Resent-Message-ID: <"OA4Aw.0.pf7.cfRro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1172 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 1:19 PM 1/9/97, Epitaxy wrote: >I have been running my ideas of the Lenz law harnessing principles through >the gauntlet of vortex-L and freenrg-L and NOBODY has voiced a VALID >objection that stood its ground yet ! > >This either means that either these ideas are right or you guys are not >trying hard enough. I have been "away" a bit due to my service provider unexpectedly going out of business, and other continuing personal business. The above email address for me is new. I have some general comments to make, as it appears my orginal analysis "Re: Could somebody criticize this please", 12/23/96, was not clearly enough stated. (1) It would be easy to dismiss all this hype, under conventional theory, because of conservation of energy. Despite the fact all the discussion that has gone on is useful, entertaining, educational, and wonderfully synergistic, no amount of application of conventional accepted "laws" of electromagnetism, or any analysis based upon them, will provide any "proof" or evidence whatsoever for any "over unity" electromagnetic (EM) device working or even being worth building. This is because conservation of energy is a premise built into the conventional laws of physics. If you think you have designed a device using conventional laws that is over unity then you have a mistake somewhere. (2) There is *data* in the form of the Ide experiment that gives some hope in this particular area (opposed field stators) for discovering flaws in conventional EM theory, and which may or may not throw out one or both of the conservation or entropy related assuptions of thermodyanmics. The particular area of hope is the case where the stator poles repel each other upon approach of a high mu armature (what you call a shielding iron plate). (3) The basic foundations upon which Bruce's device is designed, the field geometry, is flawed, thus there is no reason to continue applying the logic any further than that point. The field between equal but opposing magnets, for example, is bimodal in concentration (in cross section) and a small enough plate will not center between the poles, but will center at the peak field concentration points. There is, nevertheless, reason to go ahead and build such a device to gain data, look for serendipity, and maybe eventually improve the design to over unity. This, of course, would not be a project appropriate for business captalization, as it would be (ultra high risk) basic research. (4) There will be losses due to eddy currents in both the armature and the magnet. Neodymium magnets, especially, are conductive. In fact, there will be losses in every active component. It is important to make each component as efficient as possible. However, approaching 100 percent will never get you over 100 percent. Only some new unconventional principle will do that. Only a replicatable experiment will provide any proof whatsoever of such a principle. (5) Ide's design, though different from Bruce's, seems advanced and superior in some respects and deserves some study, especially before building a test model (if a lot of money is to be spent.) Ide's design recovers the power used to energyisze the magnets, and maximizes the amout of field opposition. By using electromagnets on both sides, and cutting off current prior to the arrival of the armature, Ide avoids all retardation of the armature. BTW - sorry, I misspelled "SCR" as "SRC" when discussing Ide's experiment earlier. I assume other dislexics out there knew what I was talking about and maybe never even noticed the mistake. While I am aplogizing, please note that I am just learning this stuff, so if I make some mistakes it is to be expected. (Don't apply too much weight to what I say.) I'll just go right ahead and act like I know what I am talking about, as it is the only way I have any chance of communicating clearly. [snip] > > >*** Look up my post from December "Could somebody criticize this" for >details and illustrations. (I can email it privately if you can't find it) >*** > > >1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more >and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to >compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the Permanent Magnet (caused >by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If >not - why not ? First, Lenz' law is really only a correlary or consequence of other laws, not a primary law. Of course I suppose you could say the same of most other laws, if you start with Maxwell's laws, the others fall out as a consequence. More to the point, the effects of Lenz' law is in regard to *opposing* the magnetic field change which is inducing the currents, not necessarily to generate an opposing pole in an absolute sense. To directly answer your question, no. The effect of the current change generated in the coil by the armature approach is to *retard the collapse* of the permanent magnet field that is already placed there by the permanent magnet prior to the approach of the armature. > >2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz >law, it will produce an ALIKE magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity >and polarity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate completely shields the >coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total >theoretical shielding ? If not - why not ? No. When the magnet is brought in proximity to the superconductor, an equal but opposing field will be generated. To the degree the armature reduces (or shields, as you call it) the permanent magnet field from the superconductor, the magnetic field of the superconductor would diminish. Note, however, that when the armature first approaches the gap the field component purpendicular to the gap *increases*, thus increasing the field through the permanent magnet, and also the opposing field of the superconductor. This situation is much more like the basic assumptions upon which Bruce's design is built. > >3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the >coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, >just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent >magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? If the opposing magnet is a superconductor yes, otherwise, no. Such could be changed by other dyamic components in the circuit, though. > >Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of >undesirable eddy currents in the plate. I just want to say how cool I think the free-nrg group is for getting something like this going. I think maybe there is a real potential to lead to something, but who knows what? Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 20:05:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA05894; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:03:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:03:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5B8E9.21B9@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:05:05 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! References: <3.0.32.19970109131932.0095c710@mail.localaccess.com> <32D51F6B.AF0@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"91ieF1.0.tR1.M-Rro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1173 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Again, please show me a material without marcoscopic or microscopic Eddy > currents that also shields a magentic field. I know of no such > material, and ferrite does not even come close to this 'perfect' shield. > Hi Bob, I don't want to start a flame war here and with all respect, the way I understand your posts, you are very...very wrong. The shielding offered by ferrite material is based on the ferrite's domains aligning with the field and offering a better path for the flux to flow. This is the basis for ALL magnetic design. Ferrites are used as magnetic wire to cause flux to go where the designer wants it to go. They can also be used to cause flux not to go where you don't want it to go. To my understanding, eddy currents are not involved in the ability of ferrites to control the flow of flux. Much work has been done by many people to eliminate eddy currents in modern ferrite material. Are we somehow talking about apples and oranges here? I just can't accept some of your statements. I know my data and knowledge are correct and based on ACTUAL work. The Quick Field software I use has not formed my knowledge, only re-enforced it. With by best respect for you and your knowledge. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 20:06:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA05972; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:04:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:04:01 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5BB2A.58F0@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:14:42 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Eddy currents References: <3.0.32.19970109140901.0077af08@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ViUqy1.0.7T1.d-Rro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1175 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > The conclusion is: these small currents in the ferrite you mention are > perpetual and lossless, true macroscopic eddy currents are dissipated in > the resistance of the material and therefore are different phenomena. Do > you disagree with this particular statement ? > I agree (Greg Watson) > Also as far as I could measure, the powdered iron plate has THE SAME > shielding properties as a solid iron plate when it is NOT moving. At the > same time the powdered iron plate DOES NOT experience eddy braking effect > (when it is moving) while solid iron plate DOES experience eddy braking. > This difference apparently happens because the macroscopic eddy currents > are suppressed in the non-conductive powdered iron plate ! BTW: Eddy > braking = Lenz law. What other conclusion can be drawn from this experiment ? Eddy currents do not happen in modern ferrite material. > I will dare to venture that a ferromagnetic material will be attracted by a > permanent magnet and will shield magnetic field EVEN IF all of the > macroscopic eddy currents are ELIMINATED. Furthermore the macroscopic > (non-perpetual) eddy current DO NOT EXIST in a NON MOVING (static) > situation since they are quickly dissipated in the resistance of the > ferromagnetic material. Correct. > The lossless & perpetual atomic or molecular currents do not waste energy > in my designs and are not > a problem, in fact they are an asset. > > >Also, if the shield was perfect, how would current be induced in the > >coil while the shield was between magnet and coil? I've not seen this > >addressed yet. > > How can you even ask the above question ! This particular issue is THE > FOUNDATION of my ideas and has been raised many, many times. (And of > course the shield is not and does not need to be perfect) > > THE ANSWER IS: The coil has current induced in it (and the magnetic pole) > according to the Lenz law. > > To put it simply: When the shield is AWAY from the gap the coil "sees" the > full strength of the magnetic pole produced by the PM on the other side of > the gap. When the shield moves IN THE GAP the coil DOES NOT "see" the > magnetic pole produced by the PM on the other side of the gap. The coil > responds to this change by circulating current through its windings and > PRODUCING its own magnetic pole (of the same strength and polarity, if no > resistive losses) in order to COMPENSATE for the perceived change (Lenz law). Correct. Hi Epitaxy, I am working on a millisecond by millisecond simulation of your ideas. The work I have done so far is very exciting and may explain why motors such as Adam's and Newman's work but don't seem to have made it to production. We made need a new set of equations for Lenz which involve ferromagnetic domain physics. Don't think high performance ferrite materials were around in Lenz's day. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 20:06:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA05954; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:03:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:03:58 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5BE9B.75F2@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:29:23 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Eddy currents References: <3.0.32.19970109140901.0077af08@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yZtZl2.0.mS1.a-Rro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1174 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Also as far as I could measure, the powdered iron plate has THE SAME > shielding properties as a solid iron plate when it is NOT moving. At the The higher the permeability and the higher the saturation value the better the shielding effect. Shielding may not be the best word to use, maybe we should use flux redirection as it better describes what is happening. An additional effect is that the degree of attraction will vary with the materials permeability. The higher the permeability the higher the force of attraction assuming the material has not saturated. Have verified this in practice and on Quick Field. Eddy current shielding still has a place as ferrites have limited domain alignment time. If you need to shield a high frequency magnetic field, ferrites would not work as the domains can't rotate and align quick enough. Mumetal is a wide range material which uses domain alignment to shield low frequency fields and eddy currents to shield high frequency fields. Low cost solutions use just copper, which is ok for most fields but has no effect on static fields. Maybe this is the apples and oranges that seem to be causing a problem between Bob and myself. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 20:19:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA29792; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:09:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:09:41 -0800 Date: 09 Jan 97 16:08:01 EST From: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@CompuServe.COM> To: list owner Subject: ATTABOY! Message-ID: <970109210800_103510.1772_IHL100-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"0Hwym2.0.1H7.GwLro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1154 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Glenn F. Hinton, 103510,1772 TO: freenrg-L, INTERNET:@eskimo.com DATE: 1/9/97 9:50 AM RE: Copy of: ATTABOY! Chris Malcheski wrote: <"Anyway, enough theory. Theory has problems with liquid helium and theory said X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:19:34 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"IAupV2.0.Xg.U3Mro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1156 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have been running my ideas of the Lenz law harnessing principles through the gauntlet of vortex-L and freenrg-L and NOBODY has voiced a VALID objection that stood its ground yet ! This either means that either these ideas are right or you guys are not trying hard enough. For the people reading this subject thread for the first time, this series of posts explores the overunity principles of such designs as LIAG, Ecklin, Bedini... etc. The original post was posted by me in December 1996 on vortex-l under the subject "Could somebody criticize this please...", "Liag, Ecklin,..., demystified" and in January under "Lenz law ... harnessing/violating". The exploration of these underlaying principles will hopefully allow a construction of a working prototype WITH THE ATTENTION TO the most important construction factors. (ie. Bedini's design is NOT well optimized to achieve overunity operation) Several simple experiments were described to verify the "component phenomena" in order to observe how different parameters contribute to overunity operation. I challenge anyone to answer the 3 following questions AFTER reading ALL of the threads mentioned above. (Please really read the previous posts on these subject or we will be uselessly covering what was already explored) *** Look up my post from December "Could somebody criticize this" for details and illustrations. (I can email it privately if you can't find it) *** 1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the Permanent Magnet (caused by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If not - why not ? 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz law, it will produce an ALIKE magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity and polarity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate completely shields the coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total theoretical shielding ? If not - why not ? 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of undesirable eddy currents in the plate. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 22:02:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA01432; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:17:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:17:21 -0800 Message-ID: <32D55F51.2115@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:42:49 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! References: <199701090649.HAA03793@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rBsBK1.0.iL.L1Mro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1155 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > The reppelling poles cause the magnetic field to come out of the > gap very strong, so at a pretty far distance you already > have pretty dense magnetic flux, which will already > attract any iron plate ! > > Not so when you have a N-S configuration, where only very small > stray- flux comes out of the gap ! There is not much flux at a > distance to pull any iron plate into the gap ! > You are totally correct. > Eddy currents do NOT play any role, if you use the right materials ! Again you are very correct, just be carefull as eddy currents can sneak in where you don't excect them. > > And until now, nobody has found any real error in the formulars ! > Natural laws don't obey man's formulars, be carefull again. > In these magnetic flux converters, there is the fact, that there is not much > back drag on the rotor, when you draw more current from the output coils ! > This is a proven fact also validated by Dieter Bauer´s differential > equatations ! See http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm (Ecklin-Bedini article) Sorry Stephan but I can't agree here. You may wish the effect not to happen but it does. I have built and tested more variations of flux gate devices than I care to remember. ALL with the same result. I wish you luck but I strongly believe you have choosen the wrong path. You are now where I was 2-3 years ago. But I will await the results with interest. You have my help if required. Just ask. > > Also Bob Shannon seems to have not understood some facts about the Newman > machines a few month ago, when I tried to explain it in detail to him on the I now believe I can explain why a Newman motor works as in does. > vortex-list, now he also does not understand the magnetic flux switch > principles and says: "all have failed", which is not true ! I would tend to agree with Bob but would like to simulate each case on a case by case basis. > Indeed Mr. Naudin´s recent test unit presented over here > already showed, that drawing power > from his device (idle operation losses not counted) > only increased the input for 3 Watts and > he got about 3.5 Watts out in one test ! > And it was just a crude small setup device with small weak Bariumferrite > Magnets ! Don't know about that device. > > Regards, Stefan. Hi Stephan, Good luck with your battle with natural laws but would suggest studying my rotor gifs very carefully before spending too much money. Will send them direct. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 22:11:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA00702; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:09:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:09:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5DDF7.4A16@plix.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 22:13:11 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks References: <32D5D38B.4B61@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Usc_W3.0.sA.nqTro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1176 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Max wrote: > snip > Max. > > PS: Have download the magnetics simultor suggested by my college in > South Australia and I look forward to swapping some ideas with the > group. snip What magnetics simulator? Can I download it? From where? --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 22:36:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA11054; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:33:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:33:50 -0800 Message-ID: <32D5E390.4559@plix.com> Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 22:37:04 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> THE NUTS & BOLTS of the design ! References: <3.0.32.19970109133526.00957ed0@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XUIZz.0.di2.CBUro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1177 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: snip > A phenomenal magnetic shielding material (moldable) is sold by Muller > Magnetics ( http://www.aa.net/~mwm/magnet/mmag2.html ) they purport to > have a overunity generator and developed this material especially for it. > They call this material Amorphous Polycrystaline. (they do not openly > admit it is OU though) According to them, they do: " A. Documentation Of Tests Related To The Muller Dynamo The Muller concepts have been demonstrated to amplification of energy to show formal efficiency of greater than 1% and Aprel, Inc. provided a test of the Muller Polycrystalline. The following documents follow this page. Square D Canada, February 19, 1991: confirms a power output of 7.6 greater than the power input Energy Conference Report, Jeane Manning 1990: confirms a power output of 12% greater than the power input at a demonstration conducted at Stanford University under the auspices of the Society for Scientific Exploration Letter From Dr. Rolf Schaffranke: confirms the directions being taken by Wilhelm Muller and the soundness of his basic technology. " From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 9 23:40:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA31125; Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:39:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 23:39:34 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:38:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970110023856_1823698340@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnetic simulation software Resent-Message-ID: <"yFtjY.0.Ac7.q8Vro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1178 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 10/01/1997 07:31:45, you wrote : << Suj : Re: LC Tanks Date : 10/01/1997 07:31:45 From: redorman@plix.com Resent-from: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-to: freenrg-l@eskimo.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com What magnetics simulator? Can I download it? From where? --Bob Dorman >> Dear Bob, You have some informations about this software below : << Suj : Re : Quick Field Software Date : 20/12/1999 A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com >From : Jean-Louis Naudin To : Greg Watson, gwatson@enternet.com.au, On 20/12/1996 02:36:47, you wrote : << I have verified my results many times, both by actual construction and by using the Quick Field software. By the way, you should get a copy as this software is GREAT. Best thing I have seen in ages. Makes it real easy to simulate simple and complex magnetic systems. It can be downloaded from shareware.com in 4 parts. Qfld32-1.zip thru qfld32-4.zip. Would suggest your friend gets a copy and tries his theory on Quick Field. The analysis and data it provides are accurate and fantastic. In fact, ANYONE interested in magnetics should get it just to play with. Will answer many peoples questions about magnetics and may assist the level of discussion in this group. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, >> Thank you for this info, I would like to give another path to have a very powerfull software : Its a flow simulator very powerfull to show Electrostatic field and Grad E Field, I have used this software to work on my ELG02 device.....You could find this software in evaluation or demo version at : http://www.dynaflow-inc.com or at : http://www.access.digex.net/~dynaflow/2dflowPlus.exe >> Speak to tou soon, Jean-Louis Naudin From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 00:37:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA31236; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:33:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:33:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970110003405.0095a2cc@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:34:07 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> ATTN: Horace Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"5I89U3.0.ud7.fxVro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1179 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At last, Horace ! Thank you for replying and criticizing my ideas. I hope you will not go away too soon, again. MY REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW. At 06:37 PM 1/9/97 -0900, you wrote: >The field between equal but opposing magnets, >for example, is bimodal in concentration (in cross section) and a small >enough plate will not center between the poles, but will center at the peak >field concentration points. This is true, I had verified this experimentally that a small plate (or proportionally large gap) will not center between the two opposing (ie. S-S) poles. BUT what problems will this phenomenon present when a LARGE enough plate is used, that will does center in the gap ? >>1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more >>and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to >>compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the Permanent Magnet (caused >>by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If >>not - why not ? >To directly answer your question, no. The effect of the current change >generated in the coil by the armature approach is to *retard the collapse* >of the permanent magnet field that is already placed there by the permanent >magnet prior to the approach of the armature. How can the coil *retard the collapse* of the perceived permanent magnet field without generating an actual magnetic pole of the same polarity in order to augment the vanishing of perceived PM field ? >>2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz >>law, it will produce an ALIKE magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity >>and polarity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate completely shields the >>coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total >>theoretical shielding ? If not - why not ? >No. When the magnet is brought in proximity to the superconductor, an equal >but opposing field will be generated. To the degree the armature reduces >(or shields, as you call it) the permanent magnet field from the >superconductor, the magnetic field of the superconductor would diminish. >Note, however, that when the armature first approaches the gap the field >component purpendicular to the gap *increases*, thus increasing the field >through the permanent magnet, and also the opposing field of the >superconductor. This situation is much more like the basic assumptions >upon which Bruce's design is built. Yes, the superconductor in the proximity of the permanent magnet field will develop an ALIKE pole that will repel the semiconductor from the PM according to the quite demonstrable Meissner effect. This is a good point. Could you do me a favor and elaborate on the sentence above: "To the degree the armature reduces..." I am having difficulty comprehending it. >>3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the >>coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, >>just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent >>magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? >If the opposing magnet is a superconductor yes, otherwise, no. Such could >be changed by other dyamic components in the circuit, though. When you write "the opposing magnet" do you mean a system with a (superconducting permanent magnet and superconductive coil) OR (normal magnet and superconductive coil) OR (superconductive magnet and normal magnet). Please clarify >I just want to say how cool I think the free-nrg group is for getting >something like this going. I think maybe there is a real potential to lead >to something, but who knows what? > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 00:55:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA02198; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:53:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:53:48 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6045E.59D0@plix.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:57:02 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: little correction regarding letter to J.L.Naudin References: <852847979.AA07251@krypta.aball.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sKt1z2.0.EY.QEWro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1180 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wolf-Dietrich Bauer wrote: > > ## Nachricht vom 04.01.97 weitergeleitet > ## Ursprung : harti # bbtt.de@2:2410/208.2 > ## Ersteller: Wolf-Dietrich Bauer@2:2410/208.59 > > In one of my last letters I gave some tips how to optimize a LIAG-Bedini > generator and wrote. > > >6) Make the radius of rotation bigger. This will enhance the velocity of > >the rotating magnets and therefore the voltage spikes become higher. > snip > Best regards > > Dieter Bauer In the LIAG, the magnets do not rotate; that's the whole idea. Only the perforated shield between them does. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 00:59:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA02678; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:57:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:57:57 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970110005819.0095a920@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 00:58:21 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"D7aXI1.0.cf.HIWro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1181 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: THE ANSWERS ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW. At 04:43 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: > > >> 1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more >> and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to >> compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the Permanent Magnet (caused >> by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If >> not - why not ? >> >> 2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz >> law, it will produce an ALIKE magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity >> and polarity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate completely shields the >> coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total >> theoretical shielding ? If not - why not ? > > >If totally shielded, then no flux is cut by the coil, right? If no flux >is cut, no voltage is induced, right? I agree that if the shield stops in the gap between the PM and the coil and stays there no further current (and magnetic pole) inducing happens in the coil because the situation is static and the coil does not cut any flux coming from the PM. Any current accumulated in the coil UP TO this point in time, will be circulating through the coil windings UNTIL it is dissipated. However the flux is "cut by the coil" all the time during the shield approach phase because the magnetic field the coil "sees" from the PM, changes from MAX to MIN. Since the coil resists this change in perceived flux, by the time the the flux from the PM reaches MIN, the coil has responded by creating its own pole to compensate for this change (the coil generates an ALIKE pole at the gap). This way we end up with two alike magnetic poles at each side of the gap with the shield attracted to BOTH poles simultaneously. The shield in the center of the gap also separates these two ALIKE poles. >> 3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the >> coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, >> just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent >> magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? >> Assume non conductive composite iron plate for the sake suppressing of >> undesirable eddy currents in the plate. > >Again, please show me a material without marcoscopic or microscopic Eddy >currents that also shields a magentic field. I know of no such >material, and ferrite does not even come close to this 'perfect' shield. >To stop the magentic field without any Eddy currents would seem to >violate Lenz's law, would it not? You can provide a path of lesser >resistance, and the majority of flux will follow this path, but not all >of it, unless that alternate path had no resistance at all, as in a >superconductor. If you call electron current loops microscopic eddy currents than I do not know of any such material. BUT there is a big difference between the electron current loops and the macroscopic eddy currents which are very significant (I have already contrasted the differences before). How could a piece of iron maintain a macroscopic (and resistive) current loop for one minute without it being dissipated resistively. Yet piece of iron can be attracted by a permanent magnet for years and iron does shield STATIC magnetic fields for years too. As Greg Watson says: In modern ferrites the eddy currents are virtually nonexistent. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 01:22:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA05071; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:21:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:21:17 -0800 Message-ID: <32D60ACF.5D8D@plix.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:24:31 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Energy conservation for spins ?? References: <852847981.AA07252@krypta.aball.de> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------74D1373A1DBA" Resent-Message-ID: <"A-DOt.0.5F1.BeWro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1183 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------74D1373A1DBA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wolf-Dietrich Bauer wrote: > > ## Nachricht vom 02.01.97 weitergeleitet > ## Ursprung : harti # bbtt.de@2:2410/208.2 > ## Ersteller: Wolf-Dietrich Bauer@2:2410/208.59 > > Hallo ! > > Larry Wharton did not agree with my > opinion ( see http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm , see Brown Ecklin > article part 3) that there exist no conservation law for spins and wrote > > > So to see conservation of energy for spin you have to look at the proof > >of conservation of energy in the standard model and then see that the Dirac > >equation used to describe the electron automatically includes the spin. > > This result may be applied to systems with any number of electrons and it > >should work for ferromagnetic materials. > > I think it was not correct to present the thermodynamic energy balance as > contradiction to usual energy balances of particles having a spin. If > physics is not quite abnormal a many-particle system of spins and its > energy balance should have a transition into thermodynamics if averaged > over many particles. I do not know whether anyone has done such a proof, > but there should be no real contradiction between both positions. > Therefore I think the line of my argumentation is still correct and useful > - especially for engineering purposes. > > But in the meantime I had some ideas why my model (see Brown Ecklin > article part 2) predicts to big values: > Greg Watson (gwatson@mail.enternet.au) gave me the tip to compare my > calculations with predictions made by field calculation: If you do so you > have to recognize that if you make a short circuit of the magnetic flux > (putting a soft iron with zero magnetic resistance between the poles of > the permanent magnet in my model) you should get a magnetic flux which is > infinite contrary to reality. You can repair this inherent contradiction > of my model (see figure below) by assuming an inner magnetic resistance of > the magnet, and if you add furthermore a magnetic resistor parallel to the > magnetic resistor of airgap+rotor which represents the stray fields you > even can express the behaviour of the fields approximately in terms of > magnetic resistance. (This proposal can be found as well in usual > electromechanical engineering textbooks.) Therefrom you can derive again a > new corrected differential equation and I am quite sure if you solve it > you will get values closer to reality. > I will perhaps update my model if I have time and enough energy to do it > and if I am ready you will be informed. > > Best regards > > Dieter Bauer > > inner magnetic > ________ > _______| |________________________ > | |________| | | > | resistance | | > ______ stray ___ ___ > | | permanent resistance| | | | resistance > | N | magnetic | | | | of rotor + > |------| voltage | | | | airgap > | S | source |___| |___| > |______| | | > | | o magnetic > | | ~ o voltage of coil > |________________________________|________| giving off current > > Figure: corrected magnetic circuit of the Brown-Ecklin generator I finally got Parts II and III, and I am glad I did. The figure describing my LIAG is totally wrong. I can't blame you for that, as I never showed a figure in my e-mail or paper, and you did the best you could from my description. I will try to use my CAD software to do a sketch and send it to you so you can make a correction. You referenced a short e-mail message from me as the source, so perhaps you might not have seen my LIAG paper. I have attached it to this message. I will try to, for now, give a cross-section figure of a LIAG: COIL SUPERMAGNET ___ ___________________A ____________ |...| _|___________ | | | | | \ \ \ | |S N| | | | \ \ \ | |____________| |...| |___\___\___\_| /| |\ \________B _______________________/_|___|_\________________________ | | ROTATING |________________________________________________________| SHAFT \ | | / ___________________C ____________ \|...|/ _|___________ | | | | | \ \ \ | |N S| | | | \ \ \ | |____________| |...| |___\___\___\_| |___| \________D SUPERMAGNET ^ COIL | DISK (SHIELD) DISK IS SOFT STEEL OR IRON, ABOUT .050" THICK, WITH TRAPAZOIDAL HOLES IN IT AROUND THE CIRCUMFERENCE. REINFORCING OF DISK MAY BE NEEDED TO KEEP FROM DEFORMING BY MAGNETIC PULL: __________ \ / \ / Something like this, \ / so the edges are radial ---- to the center. Top and bottom edges should be curved. The space between the holes is the same as the hole width. The space between has laminated to it (by epoxy) mu-metal pieces. Experiment will determine number of layers needed. Each layer should be seperated from the next by a thin layer of Aluminum (foil). Start with one layer about .020" thick. Only two coils and magnets are shown in the cross-section. I would suggest using at least four or more, depending on the size of the disk and magnets and how much money you want to spend. Several disks, coil sections and magnet sections can be cascaded on one shaft, using one disk on each side of a magnet section, taking advantage of both poles at once (and magnets cost more than the coils). Coil wire pairs A&B, and C&D are brought to full-wave rectifier modules, the DC outputs of which are paralleled. The reason for this is, first, to take advantage of both positive and negative going coil voltages, and second, when computing efficiency, you don't have to worry about irregular waveforms and phase angles; just convert everything to DC. If you use a motor to drive it, make that DC, too. Then all your power calculations can be done with simple multimeter measurements. --Bob Dorman, redorman@plix.com --------------74D1373A1DBA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Liag.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Liag.txt" Low Inertia Armature Generator (LIAG) for Greater Power Efficiency by Robert E. Dorman March 22, 1996 Reformated for E-Mail 7/15/96 **************************************************************** C O P Y R I G H T N O T I C E Copyright 1996 This paper, in printed or electronic form, is copyrighted and may not be reproduced for sale, in whole or part, without the author's written permission. However, it may be freely copied and distributed in its entirety, without alteration, with full credit given for its authorship. **************************************************************** The generator design described I have placed in the public domain so that its usefulness might be proven as quickly as possible. Anyone is free to experiment with or market this device without any exclusive rights or license. **************************************************************** ABSTRACT A Low Inertia Armature Generator (LIAG) is introduced. This is an electric power generator with stationary coils and magnets, but with a rotating perforated magnetic shield between them, which should eliminate magnetic counterforce when under load. This allows for a light-weight armature and the possibility of greater than 100% efficiency, as Lenz's Law does not apply when there is no relative movement of the coil with respect to the magnetic field. 1.0 CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR THEORY 1.1 Configuration Conventional generators use either a stationary magnetic field (either permanent magnets or electromagnets) and a rotating coil armature), or they use a stationary coil (stator) and a rotating magnetic field. For simplicity sake, we will assume permanent magnets provide a fixed magnetic field for both the conventional generator and the LIAG. Coils of wire, wound upon laminated soft iron cores, make up the armature in the conventional generator. The mechanical input to the conventional generator is a rotary movement coupled to the armature shaft and the electrical output is taken from the armature coil through brushes. 1.2 Induction Theory Conventional electrical theory has it that electricity is produced, or more correctly, induced, in a coil of wire moving through a magnetic field (or, if you will, a magnetic field moving through a coil of wire). This is a simplification, or special case of the more general phenomena governed by Faraday's law of electromagnetic induction, which describes the electrical effect of a changing magnetic field. The induction of electric current in the moving coil (connected to an appropriate electrical load, of course) is not so much an effect of the relative movement of the coil with respect to the magnet as it is of the CHANGE in the magnetic field that is seen by the coil. Since the function of an electric generator is to change mechanical power into electrical power, the movement of the coil in the magnetic field (or vice-versa), as the mechanical input, is a logical choice--but not the ONLY one possible. 2.0 CONVENTIONAL GENERATOR PROBLEMS 2.1 Weight A problem with conventional generators, especially large ones, is the heavy weight of the armatures. This contributes to frictional losses in the bearings, maintenance costs, requires a high starting torque, and can require complex and costly support structures. 2.2 Magnetic counterforce A more important loss, perhaps, occurs as a result of the phenomena described by Lenz's law: The induced current will appear in such a direction that it opposes the change that produced it. That mechanical agent which turns the armature coil (which is wired to an electrical load so that the circuit is completed and current will flow) in the magnetic field, will encounter an opposing force, requiring mechanical force to be used to overcome it to turn the coil. To put it briefly, to get electricity out we have to put mechanical work in. 3.0 LIAG DESIGN 3.1 Mechanical configuration A LIAG has a rotating perforated magnetic shield that spins between a stationary magnetic field (for our purposes, and for greatest efficiency, made up of permanent rare earth supermagnets) and stationary coils (wound upon laminated soft iron cores). This shield alternately passes and blocks the magnetic field and thereby induces an electric current in the coils. 3.2 Theory of operation The moving component, the magnetic shield, has negligible current flow through it, so there is no force opposing its motion due to electromagnetic induction, as there is with the conventional generator with its moving coils. Lenz's law does not apply because there is no moving coil or magnet to act upon. Because the shield is made from metals that have some magnetic properties, there should be a modest amount of magnetic drag as the metallic portions of the shield pass by the magnets. It should be emphasized that this opposing force, like the even lesser frictional force, is independent of the electrical load. Therefore, as the load is increased, the mechanical power rotating the armature does not have to increase accordingly. One can conclude, then, that with a modest mechanical power input sufficient to maintain an appropriate rotational velocity against the opposing forces of friction and magnetic drag, a power output could be produced that would only be limited by the strength of the magnetic field and the current carrying capacity of the wire coils. 3.3 Magnetic shield The main component of the shield is one or more layers of mu- metal [this may be a trade name, but is mentioned here in the context of a family of alloys commercially used for magnetic shielding]. This is a thin, light weight metal alloy that greatly attenuates the magnetic field strength. Although it provides a high degree of magnetic attenuation, it saturates in strong magnetic fields. Soft iron, on the other hand, does not attenuate very well (for the same thickness), but does not saturate as easily in strong magnetic fields. The shield, therefore, should be a laminate of materials, starting with the metal having the least tendency to saturate being next to the magnets and progressing to the metal having the greatest mag- netic attenuation, but poorest saturation characteristic, closer to the coils. The goal is to produce a shield with a maximum of magnetic attenuation, a minimum of saturation, a minimum of magnetic attraction (to cut down on the magnetic drag), and a minimum of thickness (so that a maximum magnetic field strength can reach the coils through the holes in the shield.) The shield, in the course of its rotation, will act as a shutter to rapidly switch on and off the magnetic field reaching the coils, thus inducing current flow. 4.0 CONCLUSION It is hoped that an excitement about the prospects for this power generation method has been kindled. The basic theory and advantages have been given. Detailed design considerations, drawings, experimental procedures, material resources, annotated bibliography of reference sources, and many possible mechanical and electrical configuration diagrams for AC and DC power generation using the LIAG method will be found in my yet to be published book: THE LIAG DESIGN MANUAL, VOL.I-THEORY AND NOTES. AUTHOR'S BACKGROUND I was graduated in 1970 from the State University of New York at Stony Brook with a Bachelor of Engineering degree in engineering science. I have had over twenty years of experience, both as an employee and as an independent contractor, working as an electronics engineer, systems engineer and technical writer. This included work in such fields as reliability engineering, software and hardware development for embedded processor systems, proposal writing, electronic warfare, military communications, satellite systems, weather instrumentation, and ultrasonic dispersive delay line and subsystem design. I have presented technical papers and conducted training seminars. I am presently doing independent research in northeast Washington, working toward a second degree in accounting, doing volunteer work, and am on the board of directors for the North Country People's Cooperative. --------------74D1373A1DBA-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 01:23:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA04747; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:18:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:18:31 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970110011853.009643b8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:18:55 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing ---> Energy in the coil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"nAsut2.0.q91.abWro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1182 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MY REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW At 06:57 PM 1/9/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: >> THE ANSWER IS: The coil has current induced in it (and the magnetic pole) >> according to the Lenz law. >So, this energy stored in the coil (which opposed this original change >in flux, right?) is released while shielded. Fine, did you need to >supply energy from the rotation of the shield to produce this induced, >stored energy in the coil? No. The movement of the shield came from the attraction by the permanent magnet AND the induced magnetic pole at the coil, simultaneously. The coil opposes the change in flux by generating a magnetic pole of the same polarity as the PM, and this pole does NOT oppose the approach of the plate, just the REVERSE: it attracts the plate. >If so, at what efficiency was this energy stored in the coil? Greater >than 100%? No. If the coil is superconductive and there are no EM losses the efficiency of the electric current storage in the coil can reach only 100% at most. >>Remember, this energy came from the mechanical rotation of the shield >shaft, and not from the magent, right? No. No external energy is added to move the shield into the gap. The movement of the shield came from the attraction by the permanent magnet AND the induced pole at the coil simultaneously. The coil opposes the change in flux by generating a magnetic pole of the same polarity as the PM, and this pole does NOT oppose the approach of the plate, just the REVERSE: it attracts the plate. >> To put it simply: When the shield is AWAY from the gap the coil "sees" the >> full strength of the magnetic pole produced by the PM on the other side of >> the gap. When the shield moves IN THE GAP the coil DOES NOT "see" the >> magnetic pole produced by the PM on the other side of the gap. The coil >> responds to this change by circulating current through its windings and >> PRODUCING its own magnetic pole (of the same strength and polarity, if no >> resistive losses) in order to COMPENSATE for the perceived change (Lenz law). > >Ok, does this change the fact that shaft energy was used to store enegy >into the coil? No. No external energy is added to increase the momentum of the moving shield. The momentum is added by the attraction of the PM and the coil on the shield that is moving into the gap, simultaneously. >Does this system preclude the coil creating a counterforce to the change >in flux while the shield is not in the gap? No. Just like in the turntable experiment the two opposing poles are ATTRACTING the iron plate at the same time. Despite the fact that magnetic poles are opposing themselves. The coil does not create counterforce on approaching shield. The coil opposes the change in flux by generating a magnetic pole of the same polarity as the PM, and this pole does NOT oppose the approach of the plate, just the REVERSE: it attracts the plate >But you need not worry about fooling me, you have nature to deal with. I don't want to fool you. I rather want you to prevent me from fooling myself. I want your criticism. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 02:18:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA13957; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:16:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:16:57 -0800 Message-ID: <32D617E0.1537@plix.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:20:16 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: little correction regarding letter to J.L.Naudin References: <852847979.AA07251@krypta.aball.de> <32D6045E.59D0@plix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7NovO1.0.uP3.NSXro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1184 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dorman, Robert wrote: > > Wolf-Dietrich Bauer wrote: > > > > ## Nachricht vom 04.01.97 weitergeleitet > > ## Ursprung : harti # bbtt.de@2:2410/208.2 > > ## Ersteller: Wolf-Dietrich Bauer@2:2410/208.59 > > > > In one of my last letters I gave some tips how to optimize a LIAG-Bedini > > generator and wrote. > > > > >6) Make the radius of rotation bigger. This will enhance the velocity of > > >the rotating magnets and therefore the voltage spikes become higher. > > > snip > > Best regards > > > > Dieter Bauer > In the LIAG, the magnets do not rotate; that's the whole idea. Only > the perforated shield between them does. > --Bob Dorman Now there I go, not proofreading my post first. Sorry, what I meant to say was the perforated (i.e., disk with holes) shield between THE MAGNETS AND THE COILS is what rotates. The magnets and coils are stationary. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 02:41:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA16647; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:40:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:40:14 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:40:59 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields Resent-Message-ID: <"MeQUH2.0.y34.9oXro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1185 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: [snip] > I'm just a dumb, curious, >inexperienced amateur (the type of person who has made the majority (more than >half) of the significant discoveries in history, because of the lack of >knowledge of conventional theory to hold them back from actually building >things). [snip] >-- Chris Happy days! This means there is hope yet for me too! Maybe not that much, but some is better than none. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 02:41:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA16673; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:40:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:40:20 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:41:03 -0900 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> ATTN: Horace Resent-Message-ID: <"E2F1g2.0.Q44.HoXro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1186 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:34 AM 1/10/97, Epitaxy wrote: >At last, Horace ! > >Thank you for replying and criticizing my ideas. >I hope you will not go away too soon, again. > Thanks, but don't take me too seriously. Advice is worth what you pay for it - that's why I don't charge for it. > >MY REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW. > > >At 06:37 PM 1/9/97 -0900, you wrote: > >>The field between equal but opposing magnets, >>for example, is bimodal in concentration (in cross section) and a small >>enough plate will not center between the poles, but will center at the peak >>field concentration points. > >This is true, I had verified this experimentally that a small plate (or >proportionally large gap) will not center between the two opposing (ie. >S-S) poles. > >BUT what problems will this phenomenon present when a LARGE enough plate is >used, that will does center in the gap ? The result is a complex force contour on the armature as it moves through the gap. As the leading edge of the long armature moves into the gap the armature as a whole should experience increasing forward force, then decreasing forward force (to near zero) increasing forward force as the leading edge of the armature is drawn in to the second flux bundle, then uniform drag due to continual atomic realignment and eddy currents in the armature as the "long part" goes through the gap, then as the trailing edge goes through a reversal of the process, with increasing resistance, decreasing resistance, increasing resistance, and the final decreasing resistance upon escape. That's my guess. One of Greg's nifty simulations should tell a more acurate tale. > >>>1) Do you agree that according to the Lenz law, the coil will produce more >>>and more of an alike magnetic pole (as the plate approaches the gap) to >>>compensate for the loss of perceived flux from the Permanent Magnet (caused >>>by the increasing shielding effect of the approaching iron plate). ? If >>>not - why not ? > >>To directly answer your question, no. The effect of the current change >>generated in the coil by the armature approach is to *retard the collapse* >>of the permanent magnet field that is already placed there by the permanent >>magnet prior to the approach of the armature. > >How can the coil *retard the collapse* of the perceived permanent magnet >field without generating an actual magnetic pole of the same polarity in >order to augment the vanishing of perceived PM field ? How can it not? If this were not true an o-u device would be very easy to build. Simply wrap a primary and secondary coil of wire around a biased core, or if you prefer a more similar model, see below. Primary Secondary ooooooooo oooooooo -------- -------------- ---------------- |Magnet| | Core1 | | Core2 | -------- -------------- ---------------- ooooooooo oooooooo Neither Core1 nor Core2 is ever saturated. Put a small oscillating current on the primary. This should induce a small current in the secondary coil around Core2. This will never cause the flux in Core2 to reverse, as that would cause an enormous current to flow in the secondary. Lenz' law only implies that the current direction induced in the secondary will only retard the rate of change of the flux in Core2. The current direction in the secondary *would* induce a poll change if the bias flux from the permanent magnet were not in the core. > > >>>2) Do you agree that IF the coil is superconductive, according to the Lenz >>>law, it will produce an ALIKE magnetic pole of exactly the same intensity >>>and polarity as the permanent magnet, WHEN the plate completely shields the >>>coil from the PM (ie. upon reaching the middle of the gap). Assuming total >>>theoretical shielding ? If not - why not ? > >>No. When the magnet is brought in proximity to the superconductor, an equal >>but opposing field will be generated. To the degree the armature reduces >>(or shields, as you call it) the permanent magnet field from the >>superconductor, the magnetic field of the superconductor would diminish. >>Note, however, that when the armature first approaches the gap the field >>component purpendicular to the gap *increases*, thus increasing the field >>through the permanent magnet, and also the opposing field of the >>superconductor. This situation is much more like the basic assumptions >>upon which Bruce's design is built. > >Yes, the superconductor in the proximity of the permanent magnet field will >develop an ALIKE pole that will repel the semiconductor from the PM >according to the quite demonstrable Meissner effect. This is a good point. > >Could you do me a favor and elaborate on the sentence above: "To the degree >the armature reduces..." >I am having difficulty comprehending it. The armature is not a complete "shield" it is only a very conductive path for the flux. As you know, current flows in parallel paths in proportion to the conductivities of those paths. Similarly, flux flows in proportion to 1/R, R being the magnetic reluctance. The reluctance of the shield is not zero, so a finite amount of flux will always flow through the shield to the coil. > >>>3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the >>>coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, >>>just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent >>>magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? > >>If the opposing magnet is a superconductor yes, otherwise, no. Such could >>be changed by other dyamic components in the circuit, though. > >When you write "the opposing magnet" do you mean a system with a >(superconducting permanent magnet and superconductive coil) OR (normal >magnet and superconductive coil) OR (superconductive magnet and normal >magnet). Please clarify Ordinary permanent magnet, superconducting opposed magnet - which doesn't even have to be a coil or ring. [snip] I hope I got all that right! Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 02:41:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA16713; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:40:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:40:35 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 01:41:10 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! Resent-Message-ID: <"vQZFW2.0.w44.UoXro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1187 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >As Greg Watson says: In modern ferrites the eddy currents are virtually >nonexistent. The specific resistance of ferrites is about 10^5 ohm*cm, which is a good insulator. However, you can still easily warm up or even fry a ferrite core with high voltage high frequency stuff. This only proves the eddy currents are not absolutely zero. Also of interest is the fact that ferrites can have different permeabilities in differing axes, which can greatly affect the performance as an armature. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 03:27:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA24902; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:25:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 03:25:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:23:32 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701101123.WAA24665@hurricane.netspace.net.au> X-Sender: mathew3@pop.netspace.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ossie Callanan Subject: Magnetic Momentum? Resent-Message-ID: <"SqC-V1.0.w46.sSYro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1188 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The magnets are physically secured to remain in the indicated positions. A small gap is left between them. They are in a repelling position. When an AC source is applied to the coil around the magnets, what will be the resultant fields? Will the resultant field, either squewed up or down, be helped by the magnets fields that would like to re-orient themselves up or down? Do two seperate magnets with a gap between them, act like one magnet? Or will they help the coils field point up or down? N----S O____________________ O N S O | O N S O | O N S O | O N S O | O N S O | O N S O | O N----S O | O O A.C O O | O N----S O | O N S O | O N S O | O N S O | O N S O | O N S O | O N S O___________________| O N----S Ossie Callanan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 05:14:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04636; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:13:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:13:19 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6399D.2453@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:14:13 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-list@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Quick Field software Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------642A4DCD41D2" Resent-Message-ID: <"79nmA3.0.L81.k1aro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1189 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------642A4DCD41D2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Guys, Here is the Quick Field software info. Enjoy. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------642A4DCD41D2 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <32D5AC8A.1AE3@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:12:18 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@mail.enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Flux flow in rotor based magnetic systems References: <3.0.32.19970109143423.009629e8@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Epitaxy wrote: > > Where did you get this software. I looked in the www address you provided > and all I could see was some kind of 2D Flow Plus software for modeling Hi Epitaxy, Quick Field can be downloaded from http://www.shareware.com. You will need to do a search for qfld34-1.zip. Then download qfld34-1.zip thru qfld34-5.zip, unzip and your are away. Software has a manual which is some help, but the best bet is to look at all the examples. Only you have done that, I will send you some of my files. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------642A4DCD41D2-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 05:15:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04745; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:13:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:13:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32D63CFE.4D61@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:28:38 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TV3ih1.0.2A1.I2aro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1190 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > > > >As Greg Watson says: In modern ferrites the eddy currents are virtually > >nonexistent. > > The specific resistance of ferrites is about 10^5 ohm*cm, which is a good > insulator. However, you can still easily warm up or even fry a ferrite > core with high voltage high frequency stuff. This only proves the eddy > currents are not absolutely zero. > All materials have their limits and ferrites are no exception. Domain alignment takes time. Push the ferrite faster than that and it gets hot. > Also of interest is the fact that ferrites can have different > permeabilities in differing axes, which can greatly affect the performance > as an armature. > Is called the isotropic or anti-isotropic ferrite characteristic. Means that the domains will align with a flux line from any direction or only from certain directions. Magnets are isotropic meaning that they have directional domain alignments. > Regards, > > Horace Heffner -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 05:15:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04760; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:13:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:13:59 -0800 Message-ID: <32D63DF3.61B1@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:32:43 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> ATTN: Horace References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RFgKD1.0.GA1.L2aro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1191 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > resistance upon escape. That's my guess. One of Greg's nifty simulations > should tell a more acurate tale. Hi Horace, Have sent a 1meg simulation (20 images) to Epitaxy showing the changes in the flux as the ferrite block moves through the gap. Anyone what a copy? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 05:15:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04790; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:14:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:14:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32D63EAF.5206@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:35:51 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Momentum? References: <199701101123.WAA24665@hurricane.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bVyGp1.0.ZA1.P2aro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1192 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ossie Callanan wrote: > > The magnets are physically secured to remain in the indicated positions. A > small gap is left between them. They are in a repelling position. > > When an AC source is applied to the coil around the magnets, what will be > the resultant fields? > > Will the resultant field, either squewed up or down, be helped by the > magnets fields that would like to re-orient themselves up or down? > > Do two seperate magnets with a gap between them, act like one magnet? Or > will they help the coils field point up or down? > > N----S O____________________ > O N S O | > O N S O | > O N S O | > O N S O | > O N S O | > O N S O | > O N----S O | > O O A.C > O O | > O N----S O | > O N S O | > O N S O | > O N S O | > O N S O | > O N S O | > O N S O___________________| > O N----S > > Ossie Callanan Hi Ossie, Will post a simulation tomorrow. We will see what we will see. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 06:32:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA19485; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:31:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:31:22 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:30:32 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701101430.IAA01373@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic simulation software Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"BypJ1.0.Km4.tAbro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1193 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >What magnetics simulator? Can I download it? From where? > --Bob Dorman > > >Dear Bob, > >You have some informations about this software below : > ><< >Suj : Re : Quick Field Software >Date : 20/12/1999 >A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > >>From : Jean-Louis Naudin >To : Greg Watson, gwatson@enternet.com.au, > > ><< I have verified my results many times, both by actual > construction and by using the Quick Field software. By the way, > you should get a copy as this software is GREAT. Best thing I have > seen in ages. Makes it real easy to simulate simple and complex > magnetic systems. It can be downloaded from shareware.com in 4 parts. > Qfld32-1.zip thru qfld32-4.zip. Would suggest your friend gets a copy > and tries his theory on Quick Field. The analysis and data it provides > are accurate and fantastic. In fact, ANYONE interested in magnetics > should get it just to play with. Will answer many peoples questions > about magnetics and may assist the level of discussion in this group. > > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson, >> > I have looked all over shareware.com and have not been able to find it there. Is there a secret location where it is hidden? Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 07:58:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA04216; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:56:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:56:37 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:56:22 +0100 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970110170521.2ee79e60@mailer.nuernberg.netsurf.de> X-Sender: kashley@mailer.nuernberg.netsurf.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: VirGin Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Resent-Message-ID: <"v2-tf2.0.i11.pQcro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1194 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >X-POP3-Rcpt: kashley@nuernberg >Return-Path: MAILER-DAEMON >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:19:15 +0100 >From: Mail Delivery Subsystem >Subject: Returned mail: User unknown >To: >Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) > >The original message was received at Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:19:05 +0100 >from virgin.ansbach.netsurf.de [194.163.174.180] > > ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- > (unrecoverable error) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >... while talking to mx1.eskimo.com.: >>>> RCPT To: ><<< 550 ... User unknown >550 ... User unknown >Reporting-MTA: dns; nuernberg.netsurf.de >Received-From-MTA: DNS; virgin.ansbach.netsurf.de >Arrival-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:19:05 +0100 > >Final-Recipient: RFC822; frenrg-l@eskimo.com >Action: failed >Status: 5.2.0 >Remote-MTA: dns; mx1.eskimo.com >Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 ... User unknown >Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:19:15 +0100 >Return-Path: virgin@nuernberg.netsurf.de >Received: from time (virgin.ansbach.netsurf.de [194.163.174.180]) by nuernberg.netsurf.de (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id FAA20807 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 05:19:05 +0100 >Message-ID: <32D5390E.24C4@nuernberg.netsurf.de> >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 19:29:34 +0100 >From: VirGin >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: frenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Unsubscribe >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Please remove me from the subscription list. There is too much >theoretical information here and not enough experimentation. > >I would, however, like to have the www, ftp and/or telnet addresses of >sites which deal with alternate sources of nrg (>>>>>NO SOLAR<<<<<)! > > >thanx > > >V. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 08:02:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA04954; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:00:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:00:32 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:01:24 -0900 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> ATTN: Horace Resent-Message-ID: <"H4NSw1.0.HD1.UUcro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1195 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:32 PM 1/10/97, Greg Watson wrote: [snip] >Hi Horace, > >Have sent a 1meg simulation (20 images) to Epitaxy showing the changes >in >the flux as the ferrite block moves through the gap. > >Anyone what a copy? > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, Yes, assuming, of course, the price is the usual $0.00. Thanks very much! Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 08:21:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA08753; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:19:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:19:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32D66CB3.EF3@plix.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 08:22:11 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: w9sz@prairienet.org CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic simulation software References: <199701101430.IAA01373@firefly.prairienet.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZnSC_3.0.f82.Qmcro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1196 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zack Widup wrote: > > > > > > >What magnetics simulator? Can I download it? From where? > > --Bob Dorman > > > > > >Dear Bob, > > > >You have some informations about this software below : > > > ><< > >Suj : Re : Quick Field Software > >Date : 20/12/1999 > >A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > >>From : Jean-Louis Naudin > >To : Greg Watson, gwatson@enternet.com.au, > > > > > ><< I have verified my results many times, both by actual > > construction and by using the Quick Field software. By the way, > > you should get a copy as this software is GREAT. Best thing I have > > seen in ages. Makes it real easy to simulate simple and complex > > magnetic systems. It can be downloaded from shareware.com in 4 parts. > > Qfld32-1.zip thru qfld32-4.zip. Would suggest your friend gets a copy > > and tries his theory on Quick Field. The analysis and data it provides > > are accurate and fantastic. In fact, ANYONE interested in magnetics > > should get it just to play with. Will answer many peoples questions > > about magnetics and may assist the level of discussion in this group. > > > > -- > > Best Regards, > > Greg Watson, >> > > > > I have looked all over shareware.com and have not been able to find it > there. Is there a secret location where it is hidden? > > Zack > w9sz@prairienet.org > > -- I just found it last night. Use the "search" box in Shareware.com and search for QFLD32-1.ZIP, select a location to download from, download, then do a search for QFLD32-2.ZIP, select location, etc. There are four files: -1 through -4. After you have saved these in an appropriate directory, you have to un-zip them using a PK-unzip utility. I havn't gotten that far yet. (NOTE: I think Greg posted that it was qfld34-... and that there were five files, but this appears to be inaccurate. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 10:21:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA09948; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:19:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:19:02 -0800 Message-ID: <32D64194.3804@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:18:12 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields References: <970110010844_71232.360_GHL52-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Liep23.0.yQ2.BWero"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1197 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Malcheski wrote: > > Howdy, > > >> If a scalar can pass through a faraday cage without interaction, why will it > induce anything in your coil? << > > It *may* because the faraday cage was not in centrifugal motion, nor was the > scalar field. > > >> I have never suggested that theory can or should replace actual > experimentation. << > > I beg to differ. You declared with final authority what this device would and > would not do, having no requirements for building one, meaning the results were > all wrapped up, fully known and guaranteed based on theory alone. Your claim that I declared what the device would do based on theory alone is an incorrect assumption on your part. You might wonder of others have already made the same tests in the past before assuming this. > I'm looking for violations of present theory, like the Searl disk, like the > Levitron, etc. That's all it comes down to. I'm not going to get very far on > this goal if I allow theory to dictate what can't and won't happen. Is anyone aware of any violation of present theory in the operation of the Levitron? What aspect of the Levitron is not in perfect accord with the theory in use for the last fifty years or more? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 11:06:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA19823; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:04:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:04:50 -0800 Date: 10 Jan 97 14:02:49 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: ATTABOY! Message-ID: <970110190249_71232.360_GHL105-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"XdiD9.0.Xr4.FBfro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1199 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Glenn, Thanks for the vote of support ... however I'm just following what's worked for others in principle; how many things would never have been discovered if people had relied on theory alone to decide what the outcome would (and would not) be? -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 11:06:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA19857; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:04:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:04:59 -0800 Date: 10 Jan 97 14:02:52 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields Message-ID: <970110190252_71232.360_GHL105-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"yTmpQ1.0.Sr4.FBfro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1198 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace, Thanks ... just remember, DO, don't THINK! -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 11:46:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA28874; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:44:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:44:20 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:43:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970110144335_814822574@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic simulation software Resent-Message-ID: <"4gpD-.0.037.Imfro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1200 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anyone heard of a sim for the Macintosh? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 12:21:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA08873; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:19:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:19:53 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:20:59 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, w9sz@prairienet.org From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Magnetic simulation software Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"sAKym3.0.WA2.cHgro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1201 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:22 AM 1/10/97, Dorman, Robert wrote: [snip] >I just found it last night. Use the "search" box in Shareware.com and >search for QFLD32-1.ZIP, select a location to download from, download, >then do a search for QFLD32-2.ZIP, select location, etc. There are four >files: -1 through -4. After you have saved these in an appropriate >directory, you have to un-zip them using a PK-unzip utility. I havn't >gotten that far yet. (NOTE: I think Greg posted that it was qfld34-... >and that there were five files, but this appears to be inaccurate. >--Bob Dorman Too bad Mac owners like me are left out in the cold on this one. BTW, you can just search on "qfld" and all 4 files show up. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 12:28:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA09981; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:26:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:26:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 11:22:57 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! In-Reply-To: <199701091641.IAA09549@claim.goldrush.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ulZU73.0.iR2.dNgro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1202 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >> > >>Hi Epitaxy, > >> > >>If I can ever get my gifs through, all will be clear. > > See if you can compress your gifs more. Then resize them, so they won,t be > so big, try reducing resolution. > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES ----- maybe even stick'em on a page there, and we can all go get 'em :).. leave direct address and batch'em as in get FLUX####.gif's :) -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 13:32:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21122; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:02:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:02:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:58:37 +0100 Message-Id: <199701102058.VAA00324@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, simulation results... Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"2jn_23.0.795.nvgro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1204 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Epitaxy, > >I am working on a millisecond by millisecond simulation of your >ideas. The work I have done so far is very exciting and may explain >why motors such as Adam's and Newman's work but don't seem to have made >it to production. We made need a new set of equations for Lenz which >involve ferromagnetic domain physics. Don't think high performance >ferrite materials were around in Lenz's day. > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > Hi Greg, please post your results as soon as possible. I am very keen to see them ! Thanks a lot in advance, buddy ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 13:32:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA23358; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:08:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:08:03 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:58:42 +0100 Message-Id: <199701102058.VAA00329@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bshannon@tiac.net From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Naudin´s G-field results.... Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"X66lW.0.Xi5.Z-gro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1208 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: >> >> On 09/01/1997 20:03:22, freenrg-l@eskimo.com you wrote : >> << >> > Indeed Mr. Naudin's recent test unit presented over here >> > already showed, that drawing power >> > from his device (idle operation losses not counted) >> > only increased the input for 3 Watts and >> > he got about 3.5 Watts out in one test ! >> > And it was just a crude small setup device with small weak Bariumferrite >> > Magnets ! >> >> >> >> << If you notice, other posters have questions Mr. Naudin's results, so it >> may be premature to accept them as proof just yet. >> >> >> >> I agree with you Bob, It is too early to celebrate victory with my G-Field >> experiment. I think that the only real proof of the existence of an overunity >> machine, will be given when this machine will be connected in self-working >> mode WITHOUT external KNOWN-TODAY power source. >> Jean-Louis Naudin >> Email: JNaudin509@aol.com > >Agreed! > >Even a device with no power input, and some power output cannot easily >claim to be over unity. As an example, the Barkhausen Effect battery >design (in the not your average construction projects section of Bill's >web site) needs more careful examination. Have not yet seen it, will look ! :) Thanks for the info. > >Do we know that as current is drawn from the coil that there is no work >done against the magnets? If there is, then this design may not be over >unity, even without any external energy input at all! Do you mean by this, that the magnets will be discharged ??? Compare how many Wattseconds a Barium Ferrite Magnet has stored and the continuing output of 3.5 Watts ! The Barium Magnet would be dead in just a few seconds , if the power came from just the Barium Magnets ! > >I've been waiting to hear this objection raised, but have not yet, and >so I must raise this question myself. > >I feel that many are too quick to accept what they wish to beleive, and >too slow to apply what they know to be true. Well, okay, happens also to me very often, but I like to speculate about phenomens and I am a positive thinker and No Skeptics ! I belive in a better future and I still want to live in it. I am NOT doing it for my children, although I do not have any yet ! :) Not to say, that I would NOT do it for them ! :) :) Of course I would do it fro them too ! :) >Do you have data on the power factors (phase angle between current and >voltage) for the input and output energy in your device? Were these >factors taken into account in the energy calculations? Yes, here is Bob right, please Norman, supply us with data about phase angles or better use just DC in foo the motor and DC out via a linear output resitor (no lamp-bulb!) to avoid the cosinus phui ! :) Excellent idea Bob, sometimes your thoughts are not too bad ! :) Sorry to be a bit sarcastic here, but sometimes everybody is just a little too fast with email replies, including me and flame war can easily start... I bet we should all keep a bit cooler and relax more, via a good discussion all different views can be viewed first and then can be decided, what is wrong or what seems to be right... So I am sorry, when I sometimes write things pretty fast and emotional... I will try to better listen to ideas and views , which are not mine but have a constructive critique.... Thanks again for sharing all your views ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 13:32:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21029; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:02:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:02:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:58:22 +0100 Message-Id: <199701102058.VAA00319@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Lenz Law Harnessing, is this the evil ? Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, JNaudin509@aol.com, Puthoff@aol.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au, redorman@plix.com Resent-Message-ID: <"8Xzx51.0.O75.Zvgro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1203 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >I have been running my ideas of the Lenz law harnessing principles through >the gauntlet of vortex-L and freenrg-L and NOBODY has voiced a VALID >objection that stood its ground yet ! > Well, Wait a minute ! Until now we have only discussed the attraction phase and I totally agree that the attraction phase of the iron plate harnesses Lenz Law to extract usefull energy ! (contrary to the normal experiences with Lenz Law !) But now comes the second phase ! What about the iron plate leaving the gap ?? If you switch off the coil at the right moment and flash its energy into a fluerescent bulb, so all energy of the coil is gone and the circuit of the coil is open, there will only be the permanent magnet there, which can hold the iron plate back from moving on. Now this holding back force should be compared to the attraction force over the whole motion ! IN and OUT ! Could it be, that the PM ALONE has STRONGER force to hold the iron plate back, when it wants to move out off the gap ??? That is now the big question ! You know, in the attraction phase, due to the PM having to "power" the coil, might be the attraction force lower on pulling the plate in, than, if the PM HAS NOT to power anything, so the PULLBACK of the iron plate hwne it wants to leave the gap might be stronger ??? Can Greg Watson maybe calculate this with his Quick Field software, to show, if the PM is on his own, how strong the force is on the iron plate when it moves out of the gap ??? Please Greg, give it a try ! You are experienced with it now already, so you will get it fatser than me downloading and installing the sofware.... Big Thanks in advance ! Well, if the simulation will tell, that this point does not play an important role, I guess this device can go overunity and it should be build as soon as possible ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 13:32:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21141; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:03:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:03:07 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:58:39 +0100 Message-Id: <199701102058.VAA00326@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: LC Tanks, don´t use simulation software ! Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, JNaudin509@aol.com, Puthoff@aol.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au, redorman@plix.com, srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Resent-Message-ID: <"ZRGGt3.0.H95.nvgro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1205 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Here we go with RLC circuits again! > >Most of these ideas seem to come out of the Bearden/Tesla camp with >variations on an RLC tank circuit with time-variant circuit changes. To >an engineer, these configurations bear remarkable resemblance to >standard switching power supply techcniques and are very well >documented. > >The PODMOD, by Richard MCGee, is the most notible example of this type >of circuit. He has patented a device claiming O/U. It utilises 2 LC >tank circuits basically shuffling current two and fro through a >resistive load. What is a PODMOD ??? Patent number please ? >Inspired and not deterred by this I wrote a series of programs to test >some of his claims. My programs could simulate any kind of RLC tank >circuit arrangement and used differential maths to simulate operation. >This way I did not have to actually build any kind of working unit. I >ignored losses and dealt only with perfect components. > >I tried just about every kind of cunning gyro gizmo dynamic circuit >changes I could dream up. At one point I thought I actually had >something until I found that I had a bug in the logic. But thats the >inventor's curse! > >I was impressed by one thing: no matter what I did the total energy in >the circuit/system remained at unity. Well, yes, probably all simulation software is based on my experience on the conservation of energy laws, so if you use the charged capacitor with 0.5 CV^2 and a coil with 0.5 LI^2 all the differential equatations used based upon the energy conservation law will not tell you the truth ! But if it is really this way, only a pratical experiment will prove ! If there is NO CLOSED system, overunity is possible. e.g. in the parametrical resonance states ! >There was only one way I could find to elevate the total system energy >and that was to change the value of the inductors or capacitors >dynamically as oscillation proceeeded but normally this requires >energy. Yes, parametrical resonance states ! That is it ! That is happening inside the Methernitha Testatika, when the capacitor plates on the discs change the capacitance of all the segments each time they cross !! >> Consider the following circuit. >> >> S1 L >> a----X--------OOOOOOO------------b >> | | | | >> - | | | | >> --- X S2 X S3 --- >> --- C1 | | --- C2 >> + | | | | >> | | | | >> c--------------------------------d >> >> Where; >> C1 & C2 are Capacitors, >> S1 S2 & S3 are on/off switches, >> L is an Inductance, >> and a b c d are circuit reference points. >> >> At this point, disregard any resistive or other losses. >> >> Assume initially in the above circuit that all switches are open, and an >> electrical charge is stored in capacitor C1. The electrical charge (Q) >> contained in the capacitor is observed to be CV Coulombs, and its energy is >> described as 0.5 CV^2 Joules. The clock is stopped. >> >> We now close switch S1, and leave switches S2 and S3 open. The clock is >> started, and electrical charge commences to migrate from C1 to C2 through >> the inductor L. Thus an electrical current occurs in the total circuit >> a,b,d,c. As charge is transferred into C2, an associated magnetic field >> expands about our inductor L. The clock is stopped. >> >> At this point in time, a calculable portion of our charge has been >> transferred from C1 to C2. If we now examine the voltages across C1 and C2, >> we find, from Q = CV, that the sum of the charges in the two capacitors is >> equal to the original charge contained in C1. Is it really so ??? If yes, all the simulation software is wrong ! The simulation software would predict, that the charges are NOT equal , cause energy is still stored in the coil via the energy conservation law ! But that is totally UNLOGICAL ! Charge CAN NOT BE DESTROYED ! So the sum of the charges must be the same as we had before in C1 alone ! Thus we get a FREE Magnetic ENERY inside the coil ! And that is the SURPLUS ENERGY ! >> We now open switch S1, and >> close switch S2 (S3 is still open). >> >> We restart the clock. The magnetic field of our inductor L, (containing >> energy produced by the charge transfer, in the form of .5LI^2 Joules) now >> starts to collapse. In doing so, it will try to maintain its initial >> current at the previous level, and the voltage across it will rise in >> opposition to the potential that now exists across C2. An electrical current >> now flows in the circuit, L, b, d, S2. And energy from the magnetic field is >> forced into capacitor C2 in the form of an electrical charge. Yes, I agree, that is the energy we have won for FREE ! Is that right ? Is that really that simple ??? If yes, that is probably also one principle of the Methernitha Testatika device ! Can somebody prove that right or wrong via an actual experiment , please ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 13:47:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21961; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:05:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:05:06 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:58:49 +0100 Message-Id: <199701102058.VAA00331@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: LC Tanks produce free magnetic energy ? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"6fMRZ3.0.xK5.cxgro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1207 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hello Stefan, > >Thanks for your response. Thank you for these great ideas ! > >>Maybe this is the secret principle of the Methernitha Testatika ?? > >>snip > >Yes, that had also occured to me as a passing thought. I also seem to >recall that Nicola Tesla once said something like - "Electricity is free. I >can't understand why I never saw it before." Yes, that could be that he meant this ! > >>Did you get any negative replies ? I can find no errors ! > >No... Yours is the only reply I've had to date, and I appreciate your >comments. And so far, I can't forsee a problem with the basic principle. >Perhaps at this time everyone is too busy trying to sort out Lenz's Law with >moving magnetic fields etc. :) Right ! Including myself ! :) >The thing is, of course, that what I said in >my post uses the principle of Lenz's law without any question of >contradicting it ! > >Never mind, I have on my drawing board, an electronic circuit that uses this >principle, and if I can ever afford the parts I'll build it. It uses >stearing diodes, mosfet switching, and controlled feed-back for the two >square-wave timer/oscillators that drive it at the appropriate resonant >frequencies. I would suggest , just try first the basic test ! Get 2 capacitors and run the first test, if the coil has still a magnetic field at that point, when the 2 capacitors are equally charged ! That should be possible with a simple toggle switch and 2 big caps and a big coil and a Hall sensor. >A clue to the real nature of this principle, exists in the relationship of >pre-stage matter (in the form of "ENERGY"), and "TIME", that manifest as the >illusion of "MATTER" we call the three dimensional world. It's all there in >that old boring matter/energy equation that everybody has known about for a >hundred years, but nobody seems to quite understand. Perhaps its just as well. Yes, the TIME COMPONENT maybe play an important role here, because it takes time until the charges are transferred from C1 to C2 ! > >Thank you again for your comments. Please keep me updated on your ideas and pratical work about this ! Thanks a lot in advance. ---snip---- somebody else wrote: >There was only one way I could find to elevate the total system energy >and that was to change the value of the inductors or capacitors >dynamically as oscillation proceeeded but normally this requires >energy. Yes, parametrical resonance states ! That is it ! That is happening inside the Methernitha Testatika, when the capacitor plates on the discs change the capacitance of all the segments each time they cross !! >> Consider the following circuit. >> >> S1 L >> a----X--------OOOOOOO------------b >> | | | | >> - | | | | >> --- X S2 X S3 --- >> --- C1 | | --- C2 >> + | | | | >> | | | | >> c--------------------------------d >> >> Where; >> C1 & C2 are Capacitors, >> S1 S2 & S3 are on/off switches, >> L is an Inductance, >> and a b c d are circuit reference points. >> >> At this point, disregard any resistive or other losses. >> >> Assume initially in the above circuit that all switches are open, and an >> electrical charge is stored in capacitor C1. The electrical charge (Q) >> contained in the capacitor is observed to be CV Coulombs, and its energy is >> described as 0.5 CV^2 Joules. The clock is stopped. >> >> We now close switch S1, and leave switches S2 and S3 open. The clock is >> started, and electrical charge commences to migrate from C1 to C2 through >> the inductor L. Thus an electrical current occurs in the total circuit >> a,b,d,c. As charge is transferred into C2, an associated magnetic field >> expands about our inductor L. The clock is stopped. >> >> At this point in time, a calculable portion of our charge has been >> transferred from C1 to C2. If we now examine the voltages across C1 and C2, >> we find, from Q = CV, that the sum of the charges in the two capacitors is >> equal to the original charge contained in C1. Is it really so ??? If yes, all the simulation software is wrong ! The simulation software would predict, that the charges are NOT equal , cause energy is still stored in the coil via the energy conservation law ! But that is totally UNLOGICAL ! Charge CAN NOT BE DESTROYED ! So the sum of the charges must be the same as we had before in C1 alone ! Thus we get a FREE Magnetic ENERY inside the coil ! And that is the SURPLUS ENERGY ! >> We now open switch S1, and >> close switch S2 (S3 is still open). >> >> We restart the clock. The magnetic field of our inductor L, (containing >> energy produced by the charge transfer, in the form of .5LI^2 Joules) now >> starts to collapse. In doing so, it will try to maintain its initial >> current at the previous level, and the voltage across it will rise in >> opposition to the potential that now exists across C2. An electrical current >> now flows in the circuit, L, b, d, S2. And energy from the magnetic field is >> forced into capacitor C2 in the form of an electrical charge. Yes, I agree, that is the energy we have won for FREE ! Is that right ? Is that really that simple ??? If yes, that is probably also one principle of the Methernitha Testatika device ! Can somebody prove that right or wrong via an actual experiment , please ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 13:53:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21422; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:03:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:03:48 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:58:53 +0100 Message-Id: <199701102058.VAA00335@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: bshannon@tiac.net From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ciPFM.0.gD5.Qwgro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1206 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> Well, Bob Shannon is wrong with almost all of his comments ! >>=20 Sorry for my hard words, probably did not have a good day that time.... >> Eddy currents do NOT play any role, if you use the right materials ! >> Use ferrite or laminated iron plates and you can forget the eddy current >> problems ! Then it has no effect on the basic ideas ! >> The basic idea is shielding away the flux from the coil and thus >> inducing in it a helping magnetic field to help pull the iron plate >> into the gap and thus harnessing the Lenz Law ! >> That is all it is and eddy currents and any kind of shielding because >> of eddy currents DO NOT play any role, because there WILL BE NO EDDY >> CURRENTS, because we will use the right materials ! > >Please mr. Hartmann, what material has NO Eddy currents, but still >shields a magnetic field? Hmm, I bet a ferrite core has no eddy currents, cause the ohmic resistance is in the 100 KOhm area ?? Am I wrong with that ? I mean, no obvious eddy currents which have to be bothered about when using material for a real machine... > >> Also already our formulars on the Ecklin-Bedini Flux switch generator >> SHOW, that there is overunity possible with using the right >> materials and the right paramters ! >>=20 >> So if Bob Shannons still says it is wrong, he has to prove our >> formulars wrong, which have been calculated from normal electrodynamics ! > >Wrong Mr. Hartmann, the burden of proof rests with you. You must prove >that your formulae are correct descriptions of reality by producing and >testing your device. >=20 Today the magnets came in... Now we are waiting for the ferrite core material ! :) Will let you know, if I will soon power my PC from=20 our Flux switch device ! :) >> And until now, nobody has found any real error in the formulars ! >>=20 >> And yes, some flux gate converters have failed, but some are also >> said to produce overunity.... >>=20 >> To put an end to the discussion, we will build such a unit according to= our >> formulars, so we can predict, what we will get and thus optimize >> the building parameters for the magnets, coils and gate dimensions. >>=20 >> The Neodymium magnets are already ordered and will come in next week. >> The Permax iron core material will hopefully also come in soon. >>=20 >> In these magnetic flux converters, there is the fact, that there is not= much >> back drag on the rotor, when you draw more current from the output coils= ! >> This is a proven fact also validated by Dieter Bauer=B4s differential >> equatations ! See http://www.overunity.de/theory.htm (Ecklin-Bedini article) >>=20 >> Also Bob Shannon seems to have not understood some facts about the Newman >> machines a few month ago, when I tried to explain it in detail to him on= the >> vortex-list, now he also does not understand the magnetic flux switch >> principles and says: "all have failed", which is not true ! >> Indeed Mr. Naudin=B4s recent test unit presented over here >> already showed, that drawing power >> from his device (idle operation losses not counted) >> only increased the input for 3 Watts and >> he got about 3.5 Watts out in one test ! >> And it was just a crude small setup device with small weak Bariumferrite >> Magnets ! > >I have never subscribed to the vortex list Stefan. I may have missed >something. Well, didn=B4t you jump into the discussion last year in one of the free energy mailing lists ? I still can remember your skeptic views about the Newman data... when my memory is not in "fuzzy" state ! :) >If you notice, other posters have questions Mr. Naudin's results, so it >may be premature to accept them as proof just yet. =20 Well, there were just a few which did not understand, how the factor 0.75 was used... It was the efficiency of the driving motor... As the input is MECHANICAL, but we used ELECTRICAL POWER to calculate it, the 0.75 was the 75 % efficiency of the motor ! > >DePlama's N machine has shown cases where an increase in load did not >appear to be met with a direct increase in counterforce, yet the N >machine has failed to reach 100% efficieny never the less. Why is this >so? I agree, that N-machines DO NOT work... I know several people, who spend 100.000 US$ on it and did not get it over 99 %... There the increased power output versus drag seems to come from the nonlinearity of the brush resistance in the state of NO Current drawn (idle state) and FULL current drawn=20 (brush resistance changes dramatically at this several 100 Amperes level!) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 14:18:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA01165; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:38:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:38:37 -0800 Message-ID: <32D65FE3.2AE1@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:27:31 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: ATTABOY! References: <970110190249_71232.360_GHL105-2@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"VjQCC1.0.1I.QRhro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1209 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Malcheski wrote: > > Hi Glenn, > > Thanks for the vote of support ... however I'm just following what's worked for > others in principle; how many things would never have been discovered if people > had relied on theory alone to decide what the outcome would (and would not) be? > > -- Chris The same can be said for unfounded assumptions. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 14:44:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA10749; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:04:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:04:12 -0800 Message-ID: <32D67668.6EB3@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:03:36 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Naudin´s G-field results.... References: <199701102058.VAA00329@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zqSj51.0.od2.Ophro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1210 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> On 09/01/1997 20:03:22, freenrg-l@eskimo.com you wrote : > >> << > >> > Indeed Mr. Naudin's recent test unit presented over here > >> > already showed, that drawing power > >> > from his device (idle operation losses not counted) > >> > only increased the input for 3 Watts and > >> > he got about 3.5 Watts out in one test ! > >> > And it was just a crude small setup device with small weak Bariumferrite > >> > Magnets ! > >> >> > >> > >> << If you notice, other posters have questions Mr. Naudin's results, so it > >> may be premature to accept them as proof just yet. > >> >> > >> > >> I agree with you Bob, It is too early to celebrate victory with my G-Field > >> experiment. I think that the only real proof of the existence of an overunity > >> machine, will be given when this machine will be connected in self-working > >> mode WITHOUT external KNOWN-TODAY power source. > > >> Jean-Louis Naudin > >> Email: JNaudin509@aol.com > > > >Agreed! > > > >Even a device with no power input, and some power output cannot easily > >claim to be over unity. As an example, the Barkhausen Effect battery > >design (in the not your average construction projects section of Bill's > >web site) needs more careful examination. > > Have not yet seen it, will look ! :) > Thanks for the info. > > > > >Do we know that as current is drawn from the coil that there is no work > >done against the magnets? If there is, then this design may not be over > >unity, even without any external energy input at all! > > Do you mean by this, that the magnets will be discharged ??? > Compare how many Wattseconds a Barium Ferrite Magnet has stored > and the continuing output of 3.5 Watts ! The Barium Magnet > would be dead in just a few seconds , if the power came from just > the Barium Magnets ! Stefan, the device Mr. Naudin and I were discussing here is the Barkhausen Effect Battery, not Mr. Naudin's invention. At the rate of energy production of the Barkhausen Effect battery, a few watt seconds of energy might last some time. I do not suspect that the magnets of the Barkhausen Effect Battery are being deploarized however, but this is only speculation at this time. > >I've been waiting to hear this objection raised, but have not yet, and > >so I must raise this question myself. > > > >I feel that many are too quick to accept what they wish to beleive, and > >too slow to apply what they know to be true. > > Well, okay, happens also to me very often, but I like > to speculate about phenomens and I am a positive thinker > and No Skeptics ! I belive in a better future and I > still want to live in it. > I am NOT doing it for my children, > although I do not have any yet ! :) > Not to say, that I would NOT do it for them ! :) :) > Of course I would do it fro them too ! :) > > >Do you have data on the power factors (phase angle between current and > >voltage) for the input and output energy in your device? Were these > >factors taken into account in the energy calculations? > > Yes, here is Bob right, please Norman, supply us with data about > phase angles or better use just DC in foo the motor and DC out > via a linear output resitor (no lamp-bulb!) to avoid the > cosinus phui ! :) > > Excellent idea Bob, sometimes your thoughts are not too bad ! :) Thankyou Stefan. I hope you find the Barkhausen Effect designs interesting. I hope you find that I am not a complete skeptic on these matters. > Sorry to be a bit sarcastic here, but sometimes everybody is just > a little too fast with email replies, including me and flame war can > easily start... I bet we should all keep a bit cooler and > relax more, via a good discussion all different views can be > viewed first and then can be decided, what is wrong or what > seems to be right... > > So I am sorry, when I sometimes write things pretty fast and > emotional... > > I will try to better listen to ideas and views , which are not mine > but have a constructive critique.... > > Thanks again for sharing all your views ! > > Regards, Stefan. If we all shared the same views, what would be the point of this list server! Ideas must evolve like anything else, by competition, and survival of the fittest. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 14:54:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA13137; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:13:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:13:54 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6BD72.FA5@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:36:42 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: epitaxy@LocalAccess.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Magnet attraction of ferrit block Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AZAUv3.0.8D3.Vyhro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1211 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Epitxay, I now believe I can explain your idea and the turntable but first we need to understand that there are 3 classes of your 2 magnet question. 1. Magnets in opposition SN NS. 2. Magnets in addition SN SN. 3. Magnet & Ferrite SN FF. (right hand is SN induced magnet) Pull on approaching ferrite block is classed as follows. Highest : SN NS F Flux from both magnets enters ferrite as the opposing poles force flux out and into the path of the approaching ferrite. The approaching ferrite offers a good flux return path. Most of both magnet's flux flows through the approaching ferrite. Next best : SN FF (ferrite is SN induced magnet) F Flux from the one magnet enters ferrite as best flux path to follow. Ferrite opposite also offers a flux path, but not as good as the approaching ferrite. Most of the one magnet's flux flows through the approaching ferrite. Worst : SN SN F Flux from neither magnet enter approaching ferrite as the flux path offered by the other magnet is so good. Very little of either magnets flux flows through the approaching ferrite. Before we go further you need to fully understand the above. Comments welcome. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 14:59:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA14367; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:18:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:18:38 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6BF38.706C@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:44:16 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: w9sz@prairienet.org CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic simulation software References: <199701101430.IAA01373@firefly.prairienet.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v_0DY2.0.IW3.x0iro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1212 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Zack Widup wrote: > > I have looked all over shareware.com and have not been able to find it > there. Is there a secret location where it is hidden? > You need to do a search for qfld34 using the search engine. Result should show 5 files qfld34-1.zip thru qfld34-5.zip. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 15:26:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA32500; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:23:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:23:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6C1CF.1389@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:55:19 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic simulation software References: <199701101430.IAA01373@firefly.prairienet.org> <32D66CB3.EF3@plix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8sSVz2.0.ex7.8-iro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1213 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dorman, Robert wrote: > > Zack Widup wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >What magnetics simulator? Can I download it? From where? > > > --Bob Dorman > > > > > > > > >Dear Bob, > > > > > >You have some informations about this software below : > > > > > ><< > > >Suj : Re : Quick Field Software > > >Date : 20/12/1999 > > >A : freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > > > > >>From : Jean-Louis Naudin > > >To : Greg Watson, gwatson@enternet.com.au, > > > > > > > > ><< I have verified my results many times, both by actual > > > construction and by using the Quick Field software. By the way, > > > you should get a copy as this software is GREAT. Best thing I have > > > seen in ages. Makes it real easy to simulate simple and complex > > > magnetic systems. It can be downloaded from shareware.com in 4 parts. > > > Qfld32-1.zip thru qfld32-4.zip. Would suggest your friend gets a copy > > > and tries his theory on Quick Field. The analysis and data it provides > > > are accurate and fantastic. In fact, ANYONE interested in magnetics > > > should get it just to play with. Will answer many peoples questions > > > about magnetics and may assist the level of discussion in this group. > > > > > > -- > > > Best Regards, > > > Greg Watson, >> > > > > > > > I have looked all over shareware.com and have not been able to find it > > there. Is there a secret location where it is hidden? > > > > Zack > > w9sz@prairienet.org > > > > -- > I just found it last night. Use the "search" box in Shareware.com and > search for QFLD32-1.ZIP, select a location to download from, download, > then do a search for QFLD32-2.ZIP, select location, etc. There are four > files: -1 through -4. After you have saved these in an appropriate > directory, you have to un-zip them using a PK-unzip utility. I havn't > gotten that far yet. (NOTE: I think Greg posted that it was qfld34-... > and that there were five files, but this appears to be inaccurate. > --Bob Dorman Hi Bob, I just looked at my hard disk and there are 5 zip files. Qfld34-1.zip through Qfld34-5.zip. Try searching for just qlfd and see what you find. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 15:26:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA32571; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:24:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:24:09 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6C02D.2D69@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:48:21 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Horace Heffner CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Magnetic simulations] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SRHtq1.0.Vy7.I-iro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1214 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > Hello Greg, > > Nice simulations! Nothing unexpected though, as far as I can see. Thanks > for the chance to take a look. > Hi Horace, For some nothing new, for some others totally unexpected. Physics is like that. You never really know whats around the next corner. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 15:26:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA32701; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:24:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:24:44 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6CE46.62C1@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:48:30 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Naudin´s G-field results.... References: <199701102058.VAA00329@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FyA9G3.0.h-7.o-iro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1216 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Do you mean by this, that the magnets will be discharged ??? > Compare how many Wattseconds a Barium Ferrite Magnet has stored > and the continuing output of 3.5 Watts ! The Barium Magnet > would be dead in just a few seconds , if the power came from just > the Barium Magnets ! > Hi Stephan, Sorry to say, but the magnets will not die. All they do is slide up and down their B/H curves. If we ever do find a way to tap a magnets energy source, I believe we will be drawing power directly from the orbital electrons in the magnets crystaline structure. That power will not fade fast. The power rating for magnets is only a measure of the max demag field at the max flux output. If we could tap a magnets internal power source, we could draw this max power on each cycle of our energy system. If our energy system ran at 1 MHZ, the magnets power output would be increased by 1 million times with the electrons slowly slowing down in their orbits. The energy avilable would be hugh and is what I call Direct Nuclear Energy Conversion (DNEC). No ZPE here, only direct conversion of the electron's orbital energy into electrical/rotary energy. This goal is what keeps me going. I don't really want to open a new thread on DNEC yet. Lets finish Epitxay's idea first, then you can all have a go at me. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 15:26:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA32658; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:24:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:24:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6C77D.4B36@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:19:33 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic simulation software References: <970110144335_814822574@emout17.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uhY6r2.0.oz7.c-iro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1215 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > Anyone heard of a sim for the Macintosh? Hi Adam, Sorry no. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 15:26:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA32734; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:24:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:24:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6C4A4.3330@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:07:24 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bshannon@tiac.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Momentum? References: <199701101123.WAA24665@hurricane.netspace.net.au> <32D63EAF.5206@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D62970.38F2@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C7-5Z.0.E_7.z-iro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1217 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Does quickfield do 3D? Not exactly, but it does do axisymetrical as well as plan-parallel. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 15:27:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA00151; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:25:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:25:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6C71D.3D5B@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:17:57 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald de Mol CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! References: <199701090649.HAA03793@atom.bbtt.com> <32D55F51.2115@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D689C9.97D@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PZ_gG3.0._1.c_iro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1218 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ronald de Mol wrote: > > Ary you saying that a static magnet (field) *never* is the source > of energy, or is that only for the magnet/wheel/coil question ? > (By 'static' i mean relative to the energy receiver...) > Hi Ronald, To the best of my knowledge you should think of a magnetic field like hydraulic fluid in a hydraulic system. Doesn't create energy, just moves it from place to place. In ALL moving magnetic systems I have built or simulated during the last 5-6 years, all have obeyed natural laws. Some took quite a lot of time to understand what was going on. Some I didn't want to believe the results. What is important is to try and fully understand why each device worked or didn't work and why my theory was incorrect. In this way the next theory and device is closer to what we all seek. There is a way. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 16:07:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA09433; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:52:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:52:06 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970110155127.0097bf64@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 15:52:39 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: I will be back on Saturday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"HNeUP1.0.DJ2.aOjro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1219 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'll be gone for one day to take care of some business. I will not be answering my email until Saturday evening Epitaxy From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 16:26:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA15785; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:10:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:10:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6D8F3.6BC1@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:34:03 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: harti@bbtt.de CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can this circuit go overunity ??? References: <199701102328.AAA01364@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AHDPl2.0.Ws3.mfjro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1220 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Don´t you think with short pulses in the flux shorter coil L2 > (consumes only very few power) could the output flux of L1 > pretty strong be controlled and changed ? > It would work like a FLUX amplifier and thus a Power Amplifier ! > (again with the right pulsed timing to avoid bad > Lenz law effects...) > No. As with my previous pics, flux summing occurs in ferrite flux paths. To overcome the magnets flux, you will have to pump an equal amount of reverse flux into the circuit. As you do this the magnet will be forced down its B/H curve and attempt to deliver more flux. The end result is that the power out will be less than the power in. Think of it as a normal transformer with a DC current flowing in the primary coil. The magnet does the same thing and biases the magnetic circuit up its B/H curve and the AC causes the flux to vary around that operating point. Not overunity in my experience. Have built 4-5 devices to explore this approach. None worked overunity, just poor transformers with poor regulation due to the time taken to transport energy through the domains (1.6us/mtr in my tests), but I learned a lot. > Is there any known material, that can be switched on and off > with very little power to be magnetic conductive and > non-conductive, maybe just toggled via a High Voltage electrode ? > Not that I know of. This material I believe would be one of the ways to DNEC. Glad to see that your thinking is finally moving out of the square. Work on this idea. I have. You have already touched on another way, but didn't think out of the square. You even made some mpegs. Think about it. Where is a way. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 16:45:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA25912; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:43:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:43:13 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:39:25 +0100 Message-Id: <199701110039.BAA00390@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Epitaxy From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: The second Phase Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, redorman@plix.com, srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, JNaudin509@aol.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"jBfv81.0.hK6.T8kro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1221 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >I have addresses this issue in the turntable experiment. I am including it >on the bottom for you reference > >The experiment shows that two opposing magnets attract the plate stronger >than one non-opposing magnet. Hmm, but you really introduced manually energy into the system by removing the 2nd permanent magnet by hand ! That is like pulling on the string of a JoJo toy ! Can you test it somehow other than removing the second PM by hand ?? Can you just actually test it with a coil, where you just use a mechnically switch to open the coil circuit by hand by just toggling the switch at the right moment ? Do you already have wound a suited coil for the experiment ? >Greg Watson simulation agreed too. Please tell me more about this, cause his new simulation Gifs did not come in yet... I mean the second 1 MB 20 pics batch... Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 16:49:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA27115; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:48:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:48:05 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:39:10 +0100 Message-Id: <199701110039.BAA00386@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: The Testatika secret ? Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"vTrXR1.0.Md6._Ckro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1222 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please look at the circuit a bit further down here. I just had an idea, how the Testatika device from the Swiss Methernitha group could probably work: (and it is really not an atomic battery, how somebody suggested over here recently !!!) Consider the first state, where C1 is charging the cap C2 via the coil L. Now use the coil as an electromagnet with a rod inside the coil to be able to pull something ! Use the generated magnetic field to pull up the upper capacitor plate of C1 and thus the stored energy will still rise inside the capacitor C1 although the charge is transferred into C2 ! This is also probably happening inside the Methernitha Testatika device. It has these capacitive segments on its discs and due to the rotation, that is COIL driven (with electromagnets somehow...) the capacitance of these segments is always made smaller which pulls up the voltage on them and thus gaining energy ! They have some kind of stepper motor at the back side that rotates the discs, so this stepper motor must be the coils from this circuit down there, but they probably use a multiple "phase" array of this circuit and thus have more Caps (disc-plates) and coils (as electromagnet- stepper motor). Here again, what I wrote before: >There was only one way I could find to elevate the total system energy >and that was to change the value of the inductors or capacitors >dynamically as oscillation proceeeded but normally this requires >energy. Yes, parametrical resonance states ! That is it ! That is happening inside the Methernitha Testatika, when the capacitor plates on the discs change the capacitance of all the segments each time they cross !! >> Consider the following circuit. >> >> S1 L >> a----X--------OOOOOOO------------b >> | | | | >> - | | | | >> --- X S2 X S3 --- >> --- C1 | | --- C2 >> + | | | | >> | | | | >> c--------------------------------d >> >> Where; >> C1 & C2 are Capacitors, >> S1 S2 & S3 are on/off switches, >> L is an Inductance, >> and a b c d are circuit reference points. >> >> At this point, disregard any resistive or other losses. >> >> Assume initially in the above circuit that all switches are open, and an >> electrical charge is stored in capacitor C1. The electrical charge (Q) >> contained in the capacitor is observed to be CV Coulombs, and its energy is >> described as 0.5 CV^2 Joules. The clock is stopped. >> >> We now close switch S1, and leave switches S2 and S3 open. The clock is >> started, and electrical charge commences to migrate from C1 to C2 through >> the inductor L. Thus an electrical current occurs in the total circuit >> a,b,d,c. As charge is transferred into C2, an associated magnetic field >> expands about our inductor L. The clock is stopped. >> >> At this point in time, a calculable portion of our charge has been >> transferred from C1 to C2. If we now examine the voltages across C1 and C2, >> we find, from Q = CV, that the sum of the charges in the two capacitors is >> equal to the original charge contained in C1. Is it really so ??? If yes, all the simulation software is wrong ! The simulation software would predict, that the charges are NOT equal , cause energy is still stored in the coil via the energy conservation law ! But that is totally UNLOGICAL ! Charge CAN NOT BE DESTROYED ! So the sum of the charges must be the same as we had before in C1 alone ! Thus we get a FREE Magnetic ENERY inside the coil ! And that is the SURPLUS ENERGY ! >> We now open switch S1, and >> close switch S2 (S3 is still open). >> >> We restart the clock. The magnetic field of our inductor L, (containing >> energy produced by the charge transfer, in the form of .5LI^2 Joules) now >> starts to collapse. In doing so, it will try to maintain its initial >> current at the previous level, and the voltage across it will rise in >> opposition to the potential that now exists across C2. An electrical current >> now flows in the circuit, L, b, d, S2. And energy from the magnetic field is >> forced into capacitor C2 in the form of an electrical charge. Yes, I agree, that is the energy we have won for FREE ! Is that right ? Is that really that simple ??? If yes, that is probably also one principle of the Methernitha Testatika device ! Can somebody prove that right or wrong via an actual experiment , please ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 16:59:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA30793; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:57:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:57:29 -0800 Message-ID: <32D69F13.34C4@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:57:07 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can this circuit go over unity? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ur7fN.0.2X7.tLkro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1223 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan asked: > > Is there any known material, that can be switched on and off > > with very little power to be magnetic conductive and > > non-conductive, maybe just toggled via a High Voltage electrode ? There is something that comes close, but not very close. High temprature superconductors all exhibit a major 'flaw'. Once the magnetic flux reached a critical value (An all too low value for most 'interesting' applications.) the material ceases to superconduct very sharply. The change in applied flux to trigger that effect may be far smaller than the change in flux produced by the transition from the superconducting state. Sadly, the flux must drop well below the trigger point before the material will return to the superconducting state, there is some significant hysterisis there. (In the materials I observed, I have no idea what might be available today.) This effect had me thinking that we had observed anomalous heat production in the superconductor, but it was only a tad too much flux. Such is life in the world of experimentation. At least I learned something. I doubt this is what your after, but it is as close as I can get off hand. Say, what is the resistance of that high temp stuff while cold, but not superconducting anyway? Hmmmmmm. Anybody here like their tinkering on ice? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 17:25:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA06388; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:23:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 17:23:26 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:19:19 +0100 Message-Id: <199701110119.CAA00627@atom.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Can this circuit go overunity ??? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, redorman@plix.com, srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, JNaudin509@aol.com, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com Resent-Message-ID: <"QDatd2.0.XZ1.Akkro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1224 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >>=20 >> Don=B4t you think with short pulses in the flux shorter coil L2 >> (consumes only very few power) could the output flux of L1 >> pretty strong be controlled and changed ? >> It would work like a FLUX amplifier and thus a Power Amplifier ! >> (again with the right pulsed timing to avoid bad >> Lenz law effects...) >>=20 >No. As with my previous pics, flux summing occurs in ferrite flux >paths. To overcome the magnets flux, you will have to pump an >equal amount of reverse flux into the circuit. As you do this >the magnet will be forced down its B/H curve and attempt to deliver >more flux. The end result is that the power out will be less than the >power in. Think of it as a normal transformer with a DC current flowing >in the primary coil. The magnet does the same thing and biases the >magnetic circuit up its B/H curve and the AC causes the flux to vary >around that operating point. Not overunity in my experience. Have >built 4-5 devices to explore this approach. None worked overunity, >just poor transformers with poor regulation due to the time taken to >transport energy through the domains (1.6us/mtr in my tests), but I >learned a lot. > You are probably right... Well too bad... Maybe there must be moving parts to get a parametrical=20 excited resonance ! >> Is there any known material, that can be switched on and off >> with very little power to be magnetic conductive and >> non-conductive, maybe just toggled via a High Voltage electrode ? >>=20 >Not that I know of. This material I believe would be one of the ways >to DNEC. Glad to see that your thinking is finally moving out of the >square. Work on this idea. I have. There is the rumor in one book I have that the millitary already has such a magnetically shieldable material, which can be switched on and off just by very little power and thus it is ideal for overunity magnetic flux switches ! What about a material which has a curie temperature, which is near room temperature and can be controlled by heat, Maybe the heat going up and down is too slow, but maybe there is a material, whose curie temperature could be changed via electrostatic fields ? How could one invent such a material ? > >You have already touched on another way, but didn't think out of the >square. You even made some mpegs. Think about it. What do you mean by this ??? I don=B4t understand... Is this Aussie humor ??? :) >Where is a way. I know ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 18:39:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA24943; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:37:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:37:34 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> NOBODY FOUND ANYTHING WRONG YET ! Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:37:45 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32d9469d.58177548@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <3.0.32.19970109131932.0095c710@mail.localaccess.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970109131932.0095c710@mail.localaccess.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"cLC0U.0.Y56.hplro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1225 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 09 Jan 1997 13:19:34 -0800, Epitaxy wrote: [snip] >3) Do you agree that the iron plate will be attracted into the gap of the >coil and permanent magnet by both the PM and the coil, at the same time, >just like it was attracted into the gap between 2 opposing permanent >magnets (S-S) in the accelerating turntable experiment ? If not - why not ? No. The difference in the two situations is very subtle. With a permanent magnet rather than a coil, the magnetic field of the magnet is always at "full strength", independent of the motion of the iron plate. With a coil on the other hand, the field (from the coil) grows as the plate moves between the PM and the coil. However there is a slight lag between the position of the plate, and the strength of the field, with the plate being slightly ahead. This lag is due both to the inductance of the coil, and the speed of light lag in transmitting information, about the "current" position of the plate, to the coil. As a consequence of these delays, the field generated *by* the coil, is never quite as strong as the change in field induced *in* the coil (dynamically speaking, i.e. at any given moment during the process). Therefore I believe that the net effect will be to slow down the plate as it approaches. This slowing of the plate provides the energy that is stored in the coil as the coil current grows. This same energy can then be dumped into a flash-tube or whatever, however it will never quite equal the loss of kinetic energy by the moving plate. [snip] Ok, now build it and prove me wrong!:) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 18:56:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA30427; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:53:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:53:10 -0800 Message-ID: <32D6B9E4.6BC@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:51:32 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks, don´t use simulation software ! References: <199701102058.VAA00326@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QOgB-1.0.WQ7._1mro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1226 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > Well, yes, probably all simulation software is based on my experience on > the conservation of energy laws, so if you use the charged capacitor > with 0.5 CV^2 and a coil with 0.5 LI^2 all the differential equatations > used based upon the energy conservation law will not tell you the truth ! Stefan, Why do you think that 0.5 CV^2 or 0.5 LI^2 tells us anything but truth? Energy convervation only applies to open systems, so this is not a factor in a free energy system, right? Open system or not, we can always get correct answers from 0.5 CV^2 and 0.5 LI^2. Lets not through out what we already know works to build something new, start with what we already know to be true, and build on that. > Is it really so ??? > > If yes, all the simulation software is wrong ! > The simulation software would predict, that the charges are > NOT equal , cause energy is still stored in the coil via the energy > conservation law ! > > But that is totally UNLOGICAL ! Charge CAN NOT BE DESTROYED ! > So the sum of the charges must be the same as we had before > in C1 alone ! > Thus we get a FREE Magnetic ENERY inside the coil ! > And that is the SURPLUS ENERGY ! > Or we made an error. This system is not open, so therefore is not over unity. Horace Heffner wrote: > (1) It would be easy to dismiss all this hype, under conventional theory, > because of conservation of energy. Despite the fact all the discussion > that has gone on is useful, entertaining, educational, and wonderfully > synergistic, no amount of application of conventional accepted "laws" of > electromagnetism, or any analysis based upon them, will provide any "proof" > or evidence whatsoever for any "over unity" electromagnetic (EM) device > working or even being worth building. This is because conservation of > energy is a premise built into the conventional laws of physics. If you > think you have designed a device using conventional laws that is over unity > then you have a mistake somewhere. The LC tank circuit obeys the conventional laws of physics, yet the description of the circuit leads some to beleive that 'extra energy' has entered from somewhere, we know not where, or how. Clearly our description of the circuits operation must be missing something, right? > Can somebody prove that right or wrong via an actual experiment , please ? The description makes a great deal about measuring energy while the clock is stopped, and this simply cannot be done in reality. You would need to arange this in such a way that the 'extra' energy process was repeated in a cycle, and then measure the phase of the changing currents and voltages, etc. (It is this phase information that is lost in looking at the circuit in frozen intervals, and not over the period of changing flux.) In effect, this is no longer exactly the same circuit at this point, and it becomes somthing like the PODMOD (Power On Demand MODule) device. You could build this circuit as is, but some slight alterations would be needed to measure the currents and voltages AS THEY CHANGE. We would need to place analog to digital converters at key points, and collect thousands of measurments as the components exchange energy. These measurments would then need to be integrated to compute the total energy, etc. This is the 'right', or conventional method used to test actual circuit performance, but it is also quite different than the treatment used in the description of the circuit posted here. Of course, the results will also be different. I have not tested this exact circuit in this manner, but many circuits I have instrumented (I am a Test Engineer) are equivalent to this. None had any evidence of being open to external energy. Where is the external input to this open circuit? This is the first place to start looking for in a proposed free energy device. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 20:04:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA00361; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:59:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:59:09 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:31:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701110331.TAA14216@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: The Testatika secret ? Resent-Message-ID: <"TBduR1.0.C5.90nro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: WANT TO BET THAT THEY WON'T LET YOU TAKE APART THE "SECRET" DIODE CAPACITOR FROM A WORKING MODEL.> crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 20:47:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA01839; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:08:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:08:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:40:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701110340.TAA14595@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: LC Tanks, =?iso-8859-1?Q?don=B4t?= use simulation software ! Resent-Message-ID: <"o7y0d1.0.ZS.k8nro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:58 PM 1/10/97 +0100, you wrote: >>Here we go with RLC circuits again! >> >>Most of these ideas seem to come out of the Bearden/Tesla camp with >>variations on an RLC tank circuit with time-variant circuit changes. To >>an engineer, these configurations bear remarkable resemblance to >>standard switching power supply techcniques and are very well >>documented. >> >>The PODMOD, by Richard MCGee, is the most notible example of this type >>of circuit. He has patented a device claiming O/U. It utilises 2 LC >>tank circuits basically shuffling current two and fro through a >>resistive load. > >What is a PODMOD ??? Patent number please ? DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME MAKING A PODMOD. RICHARD MCGEE WAS PAID A LARGE SUM OF MONEY BY A MEMBER OF THIS LIST TO PRODUCE A WORKING MODEL. HE WAS UNSUCCESFUL, IF HE CAN'T MAKE IT WORK I DOUBT IF ANYONE ELSE CAN.> crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 22:42:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA12950; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:36:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:36:16 -0800 X-Sender: hheffner@corecom.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:33:04 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: How to look for free EM energy? Resent-Message-ID: <"9SJcm3.0.CA3.TJpro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1229 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is an attempt to move discussion up a level to a broader point of view, and maybe open some discussion about superconductors. It seems to me that, if more than specific experiments are to be discussed, the fundamental issue of discussion productivity boils down to a question of choosing the best strategy for finding an energy producing device, assuming that is possible. My view, as mentioned earlier, is: " ... no amount of application of conventional accepted "laws" of electromagnetism, or any analysis based upon them, will provide any "proof" or evidence whatsoever for any "over unity" electromagnetic (EM) device working or even being worth building. This is because conservation of energy is a premise built into the conventional laws of physics. If you think you have designed a device using conventional laws that is over unity then you have a mistake somewhere." This suggests that the efficient way to go about looking for the Holy Grail of energy is to look where there is some real evidence that conventional laws have been violated. This is not unreasonable to actually do because if anything is certain at all it is that we do not know all there is to know. Discoveries are made all the time. Making discoveries is mostly a matter of looking in new places and examining the unexplained with a fresh point of view. You have to know what you are looking for and then start tinkering around. It seems that basic electronic circuits, motors, motor/generators, antennae, etc. have all been hashed to death and done dozens of different ways. This route seems unfruitful, mostly for the reasons stated above. Also, if you have to worry about fine tuning a precision clockwork type device to get o-u behavior then you have a much bigger problem on your hands - that is that the thing you are developing or envisioning or even testing has little or no utility. If a gadget produces profuse amounts of energy from nothing, then efficiency should be a relatively moot point. Having to worry about fine tuning efficiency should be a big red flag that something is fundamentally wrong. In regard to the opposed pole attraction motor, etc., there is actual data, in the form of the Ide experiment, that indicates there is an anomaly, a problem with conventional theory. Futhermore, in addition to counterintuitive behavior, there have been reported anomalies in the area of superconductors, and superconductors could play a significant role in investigating the opposed pole phenomena. Furthermore, another area of interest (to me anyway) is the question of the actual existence of magnetic flux. This question appears (my interpretation) to be tied into Ide's guess at a possible explanation of the anomaly he observed. I have specific experiments planned in this area also. This all just goes to say that the opposed pole stator motor appears to me to be a really fruitful area for discussion and experimenting. Personally, I think a good specific place to begin an investigation is maybe by building a motor based upon pulsed ferrite core stators, with a ferrite armature, like Ide's, and then replacing one of the opposing stators with a high temperature superconductor (HTSC). The stators in Ide's experiment are pulsed upon approach of the armature by (opticallly) triggering an SCR and storing the coil output in another capacitor. After the armature pass, the second capacitor is brought up to full charge (if necessary it is below unity) and the process is repeated in reverse. More generally speeking though, I think a good strategy for the amateur is to acquire and become familiar with HTSC's. This would be a good area for sharing and in which to develop group level skills. There are various inexpensive kits available. There were some postings on vortex-l a while back about where to find them. Also, if anyone is inerrested, the following is a dump of a spreadsheet of superconductor suppliers. You might be able to cut and paste into your spreadsheet program, or just use by changing "," to tab everywhere in a word processor. The fields are company, state, type of material (C = coatings or film, M = materials or components, W = wire), phone, FAX. Advanced Ceramics Inc.,NJ,M,609-397-2900,609-397-2708 Alfa Aesar Johnson Matthes,MA,M,800-343-0660,508-521-6350 All-Chemie LTD,SC,M,803-884-4400,803-884-0560 Alloys International Inc.,NY,W,516-342-0043,516-342-0051 Angstrom Sciences,PA,M,412-462-2777,412-462-2780 California Fine Wire Co.,CA,W,805-489-5144,805-489-5352 Commercial Crystal Labs Inc.,FL,M,914-643-5959,914-643-6058 ESDI Inc.,NY,C,516-563-8278,516-563-8231 G & J Steel & Tubing Inc.,NJ,W,800-322-8823,908-526-9487 G&S Titanium,OH,W,800-860-0564,330-262-1550 GE Co.,CT,M,800-626-2004, Grove Grundilling Inc.,ME,W,207-743-7051,207-743-7083 Hitachi Cable America,NY,M,800-394-0234,914-993-0990 HITC Superconductors Inc.,NJ,M,609-397-2700,609-397-2708 Hypres Inc.,NY,M,914-592-1190,914-347-2239 IGC Advanced Superconductors Inc.,CT,W,203-753-5215,203-753-2096 Innovare Inc.,PA,M,610-837-8830, Intermagnetics General Corp.,NY,M,518-786-1122, InterWire Group,NY,W,800-799-4978,914-273-6510 MolecuWire Corp.,NJ,W,908-938-9473,908-938-3189 Omega Engiuneering Inc.,CT,W,800-826-6342,203-359-7700 Oxford Superconducting Technology,NJ,W,908-541-1300,908-541-7769 Rea Engineeered Wire Products Inc.,IN,W,219-422-4252,219-422-4246 SAES Getters USA Inc.,CO ,M,719-576-3200,719-576-5025 Satcon Technology Corp.,MA,M,800-663-4916,617-661-3373 SonoTec Corp.,NY,C,917-795-2020,914-795-2720 Superconductive Componenets,OH ,M,800-346-6567,800-292-8654 Superconductor Tech Inc.,CA,M,805-683-8527,805-683-8527 Superconix Inc. ,MN,M,612-222-0046,612-222-0049 Vacuumschmelze (Siemens),NJ,M,908-494-3530,908-603-5994 Watteredge Uniflex Inc.,OH,W,216-871-9215,216-933-8248 Addresses and other supplier companies can be found at the Thomas Register Company home page at: I am interrested in pursuing HTSC motor applications eventually but have lots of unrelated experiments in my queue or on the table and zip for cash lately, so I have been putting this off. The more discussion occurs about superconductors the more it seems I have made a mistake in priorities. And then there is the Tampere antigravity stuff ... It would be useful to find out what the best texts on superconductivity are and where they can be bought, and similar info for HTSC kits. Maybe HTSC ceramic making discussions would be worthwhile also. I seem to recall a high school kit for such. Any suggestions on any of the above would be appreciated. That's my two cents worth. Anyone else have feelings about finding an overall approach to looking for EM solutions to the energy problem? Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 23:21:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA05010; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:20:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:20:08 -0800 Message-ID: <32D7F97D.72A1@triode.net.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:35:09 -0800 From: Max X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Joseph Tates Antenna References: <199701092359.PAA29548@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ycLec2.0.AE1.cypro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1230 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: wesly crosiar wrote: > > >>> TO ALL: HAS ANYONE DUPLICATED JOSEPH TATES ANTENNA, IF SO WHAT WAS THE > >>> OUTPUT, I HAVE A FRIEND WHO TALKED TO JOSEPH A FEW YEARS AGO, JOSEPH TOLD > >>> HIM HE GOT EIGHT TO TEN WATS OUT OF IT. > >> > >>Wow, I would like to try. Where do I get info on it? > >> > >>-Tom: I will try to attach it, if not try > ww2.murray.net.au/users/egel/tate.htm > >Leave off the tate.htm and you will find other files of interest. This site has moved. Try http://users.mildura.net.au/users/egel/ Max. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 23:21:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA05071; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:20:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:20:23 -0800 Message-ID: <32D81E30.3F94@triode.net.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:11:44 -0800 From: Max X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields References: <970110010844_71232.360_GHL52-1@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"N-4IZ3.0.8F1.rypro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1231 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Malcheski wrote: > I have a Levitron sitting here on my desk. Theory said it couldn't be done. > Here it spins, floating about 1.5" above the desk, hovering in mid-air for over > 3 minutes now with nothing but permanent magnets. Theory was wrong and this > thing only exists because some guy decided to sit down and build the thing - > rejecting the theory that dictated all the things that would not and could not > happen. Theory is the only reason why this thing didn't exist until 1996. They > had the technology to build it 200 years ago. Or more. They thought they > already knew. And ... as (almost) always, it didn't come down to theory being > WRONG, but simply INCOMPLETE. Please tell me what a Levtron is - Ive never heard of it. Max. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 23:22:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA05353; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:20:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:20:50 -0800 Message-ID: <32D83A82.7254@triode.net.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:12:34 -0800 From: Max X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks, don´t use simulation software ! References: <199701102058.VAA00326@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bOcBa2.0.QJ1.Gzpro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1232 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > What is a PODMOD ??? Patent number please ? PODMOD is an acronym for Power On Demand MODule. Im sorry I dont know the patent number. I got his name wrong too. It is Richard McKie (not McGee). He can be contacted at Gamma Star International in Seattle. > Well, yes, probably all simulation software is based on my experience on > the conservation of energy laws, so if you use the charged capacitor > with 0.5 CV^2 and a coil with 0.5 LI^2 all the differential equatations > used based upon the energy conservation law will not tell you the truth ! Ok Stefan, If the currently accepted laws are wrong, what are the correct ones? I need to know this so I can make these corrections to my software and redo the experiments. > But if it is really this way, only a pratical experiment will prove ! Not so. If we know the true variation on the laws then we can do the designs on our computers as supposedly the 'big boys' are doing. > If there is NO CLOSED system, overunity is possible. e.g. in the > parametrical resonance states ! The only correct way to test for overunity is to consider the device under test as a blackbox (a closed system) with inputs and outputs. You must measure all inputs and outputs to assetain the correct power gain. This is what I said previously: > >There was only one way I could find to elevate the total system energy > >and that was to change the value of the inductors or capacitors > >dynamically as oscillation proceeeded but normally this requires > >energy. > > Yes, parametrical resonance states ! That is it ! Yes, exactly! The concept is not new. Parametric pumping is used in microwave conversion technology. But conservative reasoning says you must do work in order pump the system up, so you are not really creating any extra power. > That is happening inside the Methernitha Testatika, when the > capacitor plates on the discs change the capacitance of all the > segments each time they cross !! Yes but you must also take into account the forces acting on the plates as they cross. I feel there may be more than this going on. Anyway has this device been proven? Max. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 23:24:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA07235; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:22:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:22:44 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <199701110039.BAA00386@atom.bbtt.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 11 Jan 97 09:57:59 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: The Testatika secret ? Lines: 64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wiudk.0.tm1.2_pro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1233 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There are electromagnetic induction and electrical induction. Fine descriptions of experiments you'll can find in Maxwell's "A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism". TESTATIKA is modernized electrofore machine and I think that a base of its operation is electrofore effect (I am not sure in correct word "electrofore") i.e. electrization by influence. The same amount of electrical charges on the surface of one metal body is used to make electrization of other metal body many times without any limitation. It is principle "power=work per time". Some problem in understanding is a next point: elemental act of work (second body is moving from charged body) require force against attraction between bodies. But in first half-cycle of motion second body (plate) was moving to the charged body, so total work against forces of potential field is equal to zero. It is well-known principle: net work of external potential field for charged body that is moving in this field, is equal to zero. Coils in TESTATIKA is transformer, I think. Output is 220 V but high voltage is 40-50 KV. In conclusion: Electromagnetic induction (by means of induction connection between two coils) is different in principle from electrical induction. By Einstein, first problem in classical mechanics was created just by Ersted electromagnetic experiment since he discovered an force that is not linear directed along a line that connect two interacting bodies. Force in his experiment is perpendicular to coil. By my geometrical concept an topology for classical forces like Newton's or Coulomb's is two-dimensional. You can make any superpositions between electrical charges or between masses and all you need to make its description is lines between objects. In next step, for electromagnetic phenomenons, next dimension begin to play a role: the Time must be considered as a new dimension for all electromagnetically interacting bodies. "Force and change of velocity is the same" - Albert Einstein. He stopped developing of his concept for it in the Ersted experiment point since force and change (current in coil) are different directed. He made a conclusion: classical mechanics is not working for electromagnetics like it can be working for electric (electrostatics) or for gravitation. I can make generalization of classical ather mechanics for electromagnetic and to show that it is working in Ersted case also, but it is not a goal of present report. TESTATIKA use just electrical induction (not electromagnetic) to produce periodical electrization of plate by some constant amount of charges. Since amount of charges is not changing, the conservation law is working here. Electromagnetic induction in coils of TESTATIKA is updown transformation, I think so. But it is known, that author of parametrical resonance method russian academician Mandelstam made powerful experiments of 1930 with power generation by means of parametrical resonance and he produce greate power output. He had not meet positive interest to this work. So, Stefan Hartmann's idea on parametrical resonance in TESTATIKA have a big probability to be a true. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 10 23:41:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA12293; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:39:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 23:39:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32D841CD.47BF@triode.net.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:43:41 -0800 From: Max X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnestor testing References: <970108155640_71234107@emout12.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"faI5Z1.0.v_2.PEqro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1234 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > Thanks for your informations about LIAG Bedini generator. I work, today, on > an experimental STATIC GATE FLUX COMMUTATOR, my aim is to build a static > device which make magnetic gate flux....I don't know if it is really possible > ......I have attached the picture (MGNSTOR.GIF) of my new device "Magnistor > V1.0". This experimental device is build like this scheme bellow : > I am at the begining of Magnistor's tests. Today, I can notice that, when > I remove magnet from ferrite core, output signal is very low. Another thing, > when I put a short-circuit between AB, the input power stay > constant....(energy from the magnet ???) > Today, I can't conclude anything, it is too early, I need to build > experimentals specifications for the tests. Questions: 1. Is the ferrite stick isotropic? If so what orientation is the material: along the length or across the width? 2. Are you saturating the ferrite between the poles of the gating coil, or is the flux operating on the linear part of the BH curve for the ferrite? Good luck with you experiments, Max. > > Nice to speak with you soon, > Jean-Louis Naudin > Email : JNaudin509@aol.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > [Image] From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 00:08:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA00361; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:59:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:59:09 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:31:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701110331.TAA14216@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: The Testatika secret ? Resent-Message-ID: <"TBduR1.0.C5.90nro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1227 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: WANT TO BET THAT THEY WON'T LET YOU TAKE APART THE "SECRET" DIODE CAPACITOR FROM A WORKING MODEL.> crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 01:27:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA01815; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:25:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:25:59 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:23:21 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <32D81E30.3F94@triode.net.au> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Rfou22.0.GS.corro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1235 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Is anyone perchance interested in time travel, theories, the nature of time, etc.? John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 01:36:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA02896; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:34:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:34:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32D72063.5B5E@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:38:51 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Can this circuit go overunity ??? References: <199701110119.CAA00627@atom.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HtTRg.0.7j.-wrro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1236 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >You have already touched on another way, but didn't think out of the > >square. You even made some mpegs. Think about it. > > What do you mean by this ??? I don´t understand... > Is this Aussie humor ??? :) > No not humor. Both you and your friend have touched the edges and you actually made some mpegs of a crude device. This was a purely magnetic device, but suffered from to much in the square thinking. I think you actually claimed an inventors right over a modification. Think about it. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 01:36:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA02934; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:35:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:35:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32D75959.1D0E@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:41:53 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flux flow simulation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nEwmR2.0.Uj.6xrro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1237 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >Hi Epitxay, > > > >I now believe I can explain your idea and the turntable but first we > >need to understand that there are 3 classes of your 2 magnet question. > > > >1. Magnets in opposition SN NS. > >2. Magnets in addition SN SN. > >3. Magnet & Ferrite SN FF. (right hand is SN induced magnet) > > > >Pull on approaching ferrite block is classed as follows. > > > >Highest : > > SN NS > > F > > > > Flux from both magnets enters ferrite as the opposing poles > > force flux out and into the path of the approaching ferrite. > > The approaching ferrite offers a good flux return path. Most > > of both magnet's flux flows through the approaching ferrite. > > > >Next best : > > SN FF (ferrite is SN induced magnet) > > F > > > > Flux from the one magnet enters ferrite as best flux path to > > follow. Ferrite opposite also offers a flux path, but not as > > good as the approaching ferrite. Most of the one magnet's flux > > flows through the approaching ferrite. > > > > > >Worst : > > SN SN > > F > > > > Flux from neither magnet enter approaching ferrite as the flux > > path offered by the other magnet is so good. Very little of > > either magnets flux flows through the approaching ferrite. > > > >Before we go further you need to fully understand the above. > > > >Comments welcome. > > > > Understood. > Agreed, next step please ! > > Thanks ! > > Have you already done the 1 msec interval simulation of the plate > going in AND OUT ?? > How about OUT ? > > Regards, Stefan. > Hi Stephan, Have not done leaving sequence as it will be the same as entering sequence. Just reverse the following comments. No coil currents were used in the first 20 pics. I just wanted all to see and understand how the flux flows through the moving and right hand ferrite (permalloy65). Please notice that the flux flowing through the right hand ferrite actually drops on approach as the moving ferrite offers the magnet a better path for its flux to flow and return to the south pole. As the ferrite enters the gap, please notice flux rising in the right ferrite and reaching a max as the moving ferrite is centered in the gap. This is because flux is now flowing from the magnets north pole through the moving ferrite and through the right hand ferrite back to the magnets south pole. I didn't simulate the right hand ferrite trying to hold the flux value, but it should seem quite clear what will happen. As the ferrite approaches the gap and flux is falling in the right hand coil, wound around the right hand ferrite, it will attempt to hold the ferrite's flux constant. Please note that this WILL NOT create a opposing north pole on the ferrites left hand side, it will only hold the strength of the existing south pole. This holding ferrite flux (which is larger than if the coil current were not flowing) flux will draw flux from the magnet at the expense of flux flowing in the moving ferrite and so the moving ferrite will be attracted less strongly into the gap. The magnet will also see a better overall external flux path and move up it's B/H curve, increasing overall system flux. This will increase flux flowing in both ferrites. As the right ferrite is now offering a better flux path (relative to the path offered if coil current were not flowing) the flux divison between both ferrites will still see more relative flux flowing in the right ferrite and attraction decreasing. Someone has to pay for the current flowing in the ferrite's coil and unluckly for the moving ferrite its it. Damn mother nature wins again! Comments? THERE IS A WAY. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 01:36:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA02959; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:35:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:35:13 -0800 Message-ID: <32D75B50.1604@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:50:16 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Current flowing as plate approaches Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DHSUs.0.3k.Dxrro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1238 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > Therefore I believe that the net effect will be to > slow down the plate as it approaches. Sort of right. Attractive forces reduce. > This slowing of the plate (reduction in attractive forces) provides > the energy that is stored in the coil as the coil current grows. This same Right and wrong. The energy removed from the plate's approach is that flowing in the shorted coil. Attach a lower current load and the plate will accelerate quicker. No excess energy is stored in the coil. The coil only generates current flow when the flux changes and as this change is due to movement of the plate, all we are doing is transfering the plates moving energy to current flow in the coil. This is not eddy currents, not Letz, its ferromagnetic dynamics. > energy can then be dumped into a flash-tube or whatever, however it will > never quite equal the loss of kinetic energy by the moving plate. Except for the coil storing enegry, I must agree. See my post about my simulations and a blow by blow of what happens. > Ok, now build it and prove me wrong!:) Agreeded. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 01:48:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA03829; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:47:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:47:23 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32D3B833.5C1B@tiac.net> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 11 Jan 97 11:42:22 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields Lines: 43 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hQSz.0.kx.f6sro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1239 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thank you for greate importance mail by Bob Shannon. This man know what he said about scalar fields! I have to add only one point: there is concept about three aspects for energy: electrical (linear), magnetic (flat), bio (spatial). 1.Electrical interaction: Body A ----------------------------- Body B force line of interaction 2.Magnet interaction: Ersted experiment . . . . N . coil of wire and current in it . \ . \ S. . \ . . . . Force is 90 degrees position (ortogonal) to coil plane. It is new Deckart's co-ordinates axis produced by nature for new type of interaction. So, we have already a two-dimensional space of coil (flat) and perpendicular line to it, i.e. all three spatial axises are in operation. 3. New type of interaction would use new dimension. It is a Time. So, scalar technology is a technology for Time Machine mainly. Biological effects are connected with objective properties of biological systems to take energy from a time flow. When parameters of time flow is changed, the vital functions of biosystems can be suppressed or accelerated. Also it is a reason for known effects for change of half-decay period in area of scalar field. It is one of detection methods. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 01:48:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA03862; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:47:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 01:47:36 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 11 Jan 97 12:41:00 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: 4th dimensional transformer Lines: 42 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Bp5QB3.0.Fy.r6sro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1240 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scalar Coils as a Four-dimensional Energy Transformators Copyright by Alexander V. Frolov To make new type of physical interaction it is necessary to make a new co-ordinate for force between interacting bodies. Electrostatic forces are working between bodies along a line. Electromagnetic effects shown new dimension since coil and magnet (Ersted's experiment) require new type of space description. Coil (flate) and perpendicular to it (line) is three-dimensional space already. So, in some sense, space we have is one dimensional in spatial aspect ( force line) and two-dimensional in chronal aspect (trajectory of charge in Ersted coil). To make a new co-ordinate (4th direction) experimenter must use a time factor in his scheme. Well-known experiments of this area are scalar field creation. By T.E.Bearden (book "Gravitobiology) two waves are in phase shift 180 degrees are so called scalar wave. In this case experiment require the Time, i.e. 180 degrees shift in two processes. Note, there are way for other versions of the same idea: three 120 degrees shift, four 90 and so on. Also it is difficult to make experiments by means of wires for current. Surface current or current ( fields ) in some volume of space are more avaliable for the goal of mutual-compensation by means of the spatial superposition and chronal shift. Conclusion: Power that is used in electromagnetic generators to make a scalar wave ( scalar field) is not vanish (Law of Conservation) but it is transformed in a power that is a force in a new direction, in a 4th direction. This is a base for new technologies are connected with bio, since any biological systems require certain parameters of the chronal energy; with teleportation; with "over-unity" since transformation in other direction ( from 4th into a spatial area) is "free" from a point of view of spatial frame of references observer; with gravitation and "time machine". Alexander V. Frolov 11 Jan. 1997 St.-Petersburg, Russia --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 02:07:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA07177; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:06:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:06:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32D766E8.679F@plix.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:09:44 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bshannon@tiac.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Room temp. superconductivity; was" Can this circuit go over unity?" References: <32D69F13.34C4@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lVe2E3.0._l1.YOsro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1241 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Stefan asked: > > > > Is there any known material, that can be switched on and off > > > with very little power to be magnetic conductive and > > > non-conductive, maybe just toggled via a High Voltage electrode ? > > There is something that comes close, but not very close. > > High temprature superconductors all exhibit a major 'flaw'. > > Once the magnetic flux reached a critical value (An all too low value > for most 'interesting' applications.) the material ceases to > superconduct very sharply. The change in applied flux to trigger that > effect may be far smaller than the change in flux produced by the > transition from the superconducting state. > > Sadly, the flux must drop well below the trigger point before the > material will return to the superconducting state, there is some > significant hysterisis there. (In the materials I observed, I have no > idea what might be available today.) This effect had me thinking that > we had observed anomalous heat production in the superconductor, but it > was only a tad too much flux. Such is life in the world of > experimentation. At least I learned something. > > I doubt this is what your after, but it is as close as I can get off > hand. > > Say, what is the resistance of that high temp stuff while cold, but not > superconducting anyway? Hmmmmmm. > > Anybody here like their tinkering on ice? Speaking of superconductivity: Back a number of years ago, in Electronic Times I think, I read that someone had discovered that Titanium Boride crystals, along one of their axies, were superconductive at room temperature. Then I heard no more about it. To me, this seemed a major breakthrough--yet all mention of the discovery was quickly swollowed up. Conspiracy or bad science? Anybody ever hear anything about this? --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 02:31:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA10208; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:30:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:30:28 -0800 Message-ID: <32D75F73.3300@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:07:55 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! References: <199701090649.HAA03793@atom.bbtt.com> <32D55F51.2115@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D689C9.97D@worldonline.nl> <32D6C71D.3D5B@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D831BF.10AA@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lEsCe.0.HV2.2lsro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1242 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Max wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > In ALL moving magnetic systems I have built or simulated during > > the last 5-6 years, all have obeyed natural laws. Some took > > quite a lot of time to understand what was going on. Some I > > didn't want to believe the results. What is important is to > > try and fully understand why each device worked or didn't > > work and why my theory was incorrect. In this way the next > > theory and device is closer to what we all seek. > > "To measure is to know...." Lord Kelvin(?) > > But lets not suppress lateral brainstorming.... > > Greg, > > Have you actually demonstrated O/U in any of your designs? > If so have you proved it on the simulator without having to modify the > currently accepted laws of magnetism? > > Max. Hi Max, No. Not yet, but I believe I know three areas of research to go into. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 02:31:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA10229; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:30:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:30:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32D7604D.7867@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:11:33 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Max CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Naudin´s G-field results.... References: <199701102058.VAA00329@atom.bbtt.com> <32D6CE46.62C1@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D8335D.291F@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"v3J9S.0.kV2.7lsro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1243 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Max wrote: > > G > > Sorry to say, but the magnets will not die. All they do is slide > > up and down their B/H curves. > > As the reluctance changes due to fluxswitching or other causes the > load-line on the BH curve of the magnet will vary causing a change in > the BH curve characteristics of the magnet - otherwise known as > demagnetising. ALNICO magnets were particularly prone to demagnetising > but the newer ferrite and exotics, as far I know, do not demagnetise as > easily because of the stronger crystalline locking forces that prevent > magnetic domain rotation. > > Max. Hi Max, Not demagnetising only B/H movement. Exceeding the max A/M rating on ANY magnet is asking for problems. Sometimes difficult to know if max A/M was exceeded. Otherwise correct. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 02:32:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA10257; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:30:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:30:43 -0800 Message-ID: <32D760BC.774F@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:13:24 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnestor testing References: <970108155640_71234107@emout12.mail.aol.com> <32D841CD.47BF@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6iYCz1.0.6W2.Flsro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1244 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Max wrote: > > JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > > Thanks for your informations about LIAG Bedini generator. I work, today, on > > an experimental STATIC GATE FLUX COMMUTATOR, my aim is to build a static > > device which make magnetic gate flux....I don't know if it is really possible > > ......I have attached the picture (MGNSTOR.GIF) of my new device "Magnistor > > V1.0". This experimental device is build like this scheme bellow : > > > I am at the begining of Magnistor's tests. Today, I can notice that, when > > I remove magnet from ferrite core, output signal is very low. Another thing, > > when I put a short-circuit between AB, the input power stay > > constant....(energy from the magnet ???) > > Today, I can't conclude anything, it is too early, I need to build > > experimentals specifications for the tests. > > Questions: > > 1. Is the ferrite stick isotropic? If so what orientation is the > material: along the length or across the width? > > 2. Are you saturating the ferrite between the poles of the gating coil, > or is the flux operating on the linear part of the BH curve for the > ferrite? > > Good luck with you experiments, > Max. > > > > > Nice to speak with you soon, > > Jean-Louis Naudin > > Email : JNaudin509@aol.com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- Ditto. - Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 02:32:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA10297; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:30:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:30:52 -0800 Message-ID: <32D765AA.60AE@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:34:26 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tom@gorge.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Rotating magents References: <32D741B2.413A@gorge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"p55P61.0.fW2.Mlsro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1245 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Miller wrote: > > Greg Watson: > > Since you have obviously studied magnets, and know a > lot more about them than I do, I would like to ask you > about an idea I have been considering for a long time. > > First, some things I know. > > 1. One can purchase a very strong magnet in > the form of half of a ring, so that the ends of the > half circle are N and S, as in a "horseshoe magnet." > > 2. Such magnets are usually formed with > drilled flanges, so that they can be bolted to a > flat surface, with both poles in contact with that > surface. > > 3. I own a pair of "cow magnets," (approx. 1/2" > X 4" steel rod, polished, with rounded ends, magnetized > with a pole on each end. > > 4. If I hold these "cow magnets" so that they > are in contact, parallel, and with one held solidly, > with the other held so its N pole is about 1/3 of the > way between the N pole (and S pole) of the "solid" magnet; and then > release the "loose" magnet, it is quickly pulled, parallel > to, and in contact with the "solid" magnet, until it is > a little beyond the South pole of the "solid" magnet, then > back to where the N and S poles are together. > > So far, nothing out of the ordinary. Now, I would like to > make some suppositions,and ask for your feedback. > > 1. I "imagine' that, in the case of the "solid" > and "loose" cow magnets, If the "solid" cow magnet were > a hundred feet long, (or any distance) that the "loose" > magnet would continue to move along the "solid" magnet, > until it reached the end pole of the "solid" magnet. > > 2. Consider the 1/2 ring magnets. If you had > two identical magnets, and bolted them together with > opposing poles together (N=S) I assume, or rather > hope, that the magnetic field would be smooth across > the joint between the two magnets. > > 3. If the field is smooth, will a magnet, > such a cow magnet, be moved by the "ring's" field, > across the "joint" instead of stopping at it, as > it stopped at the opposing pole of the "solid" > cow magnet? > > 4. If the above works, what about a second > set of 1/2 rings, bolted together identical to the > first, and set side by side, so that the fields are > opposed, would the "loose" ring rotate continuously, > that is, with only the permanent magnets as a power > source? > > This may seem pitiably naive to an expert, but, > without better knowledge, it seems possible. > > Thank you for considering this idea. > > Tom Miller Hi Tom, First I hope you don't mind my reposting of this post to the group. Second, what you are playing with is continuous flux fields. Normally flux fields only exits from the north pole to the south pole. Long rod magnets exhibit continuous "B" fields for most of their length and you are correct in your understanding of what would happen with a 100' magnet. Sounds good, so far. You might find interest in Stephans TOMI data and mpegs. The second idea of trying to get a continuous "B" field inside a magnet ring is more difficult. If the joints are very good, all the flux will flow inside the ring and none or very little will be available on the inside of the ring. If the joints are not so good, then alternative fields will be formed which will accelerate and brake the rotor and no rotary movement will happen. Thanks for the post. If you like, I will send you the GIFs simulation pictures you may have read about. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 02:32:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA10394; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:31:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:31:09 -0800 Message-ID: <32D7680B.66B2@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:44:35 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: How to look for free EM energy?] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------728E3AF52FDE" Resent-Message-ID: <"yMGWh2.0.FY2.dlsro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1246 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------728E3AF52FDE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------728E3AF52FDE Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <32D767EB.37FE@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:44:03 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@mail.enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How to look for free EM energy? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Horace Heffner wrote: > > This is an attempt to move discussion up a level to a broader point of > view, and maybe open some discussion about superconductors. > > It seems to me that, if more than specific experiments are to be discussed, > the fundamental issue of discussion productivity boils down to a question > of choosing the best strategy for finding an energy producing device, > assuming that is possible. My main thrust. Lets get outside of the square and increase the overall understand and tools available to the group. > My view, as mentioned earlier, is: " ... no amount of application of > conventional accepted "laws" of electromagnetism, or any analysis based > upon them, will provide any "proof" or evidence whatsoever for any "over > unity" electromagnetic (EM) device working or even being worth building. > This is because conservation of energy is a premise built into the > conventional laws of physics. If you think you have designed a device > using conventional laws that is over unity then you have a mistake > somewhere." Still open on this point. We don't or can't know everythong. > This suggests that the efficient way to go about looking for the Holy Grail > of energy is to look where there is some real evidence that conventional > laws have been violated. This is not unreasonable to actually do because > if anything is certain at all it is that we do not know all there is to > know. Discoveries are made all the time. Making discoveries is mostly a > matter of looking in new places and examining the unexplained with a fresh > point of view. You have to know what you are looking for and then start > tinkering around. > Agree. In my belief I see three possible paths to follow. > It seems that basic electronic circuits, motors, motor/generators, > antennae, etc. have all been hashed to death and done dozens of different > ways. This route seems unfruitful, mostly for the reasons stated above. > Also, if you have to worry about fine tuning a precision clockwork type > device to get o-u behavior then you have a much bigger problem on your > hands - that is that the thing you are developing or envisioning or even > testing has little or no utility. If a gadget produces profuse amounts of > energy from nothing, then efficiency should be a relatively moot point. > Having to worry about fine tuning efficiency should be a big red flag that > something is fundamentally wrong. Sort of agree. I am currently working on an explanation of what happens in a Adam/Newman motor. Don't jump yet. Let me take the time to lay it out. > In regard to the opposed pole attraction motor, etc., there is actual data, > in the form of the Ide experiment, that indicates there is an anomaly, a > problem with conventional theory. Futhermore, in addition to > counterintuitive behavior, there have been reported anomalies in the area > of superconductors, and superconductors could play a significant role in > investigating the opposed pole phenomena. Furthermore, another area of > interest (to me anyway) is the question of the actual existence of magnetic > flux. This question appears (my interpretation) to be tied into Ide's > guess at a possible explanation of the anomaly he observed. I have > specific experiments planned in this area also. This all just goes to say > that the opposed pole stator motor appears to me to be a really fruitful > area for discussion and experimenting. This is One of my ways. More to come. Stay tuned. > Personally, I think a good specific place to begin an investigation is > maybe by building a motor based upon pulsed ferrite core stators, with a > ferrite armature, like Ide's, and then replacing one of the opposing > stators with a high temperature superconductor (HTSC). The stators in > Ide's experiment are pulsed upon approach of the armature by (opticallly) > triggering an SCR and storing the coil output in another capacitor. After > the armature pass, the second capacitor is brought up to full charge (if > necessary it is below unity) and the process is repeated in reverse. > There may be a common thread in this device and others. Still working. > More generally speeking though, I think a good strategy for the amateur is > to acquire and become familiar with HTSC's. This would be a good area for > sharing and in which to develop group level skills. There are various > inexpensive kits available. There were some postings on vortex-l a while > back about where to find them. > Will put on the back burner for now. > Also, if anyone is inerrested, the following is a dump of a spreadsheet of > superconductor suppliers. You might be able to cut and paste into your > spreadsheet program, or just use by changing "," to tab everywhere in a > word processor. The fields are company, state, type of material (C = > coatings or film, M = materials or components, W = wire), phone, FAX. > > Advanced Ceramics Inc.,NJ,M,609-397-2900,609-397-2708 > Alfa Aesar Johnson Matthes,MA,M,800-343-0660,508-521-6350 > All-Chemie LTD,SC,M,803-884-4400,803-884-0560 > Alloys International Inc.,NY,W,516-342-0043,516-342-0051 > Angstrom Sciences,PA,M,412-462-2777,412-462-2780 > California Fine Wire Co.,CA,W,805-489-5144,805-489-5352 > Commercial Crystal Labs Inc.,FL,M,914-643-5959,914-643-6058 > ESDI Inc.,NY,C,516-563-8278,516-563-8231 > G & J Steel & Tubing Inc.,NJ,W,800-322-8823,908-526-9487 > G&S Titanium,OH,W,800-860-0564,330-262-1550 > GE Co.,CT,M,800-626-2004, > Grove Grundilling Inc.,ME,W,207-743-7051,207-743-7083 > Hitachi Cable America,NY,M,800-394-0234,914-993-0990 > HITC Superconductors Inc.,NJ,M,609-397-2700,609-397-2708 > Hypres Inc.,NY,M,914-592-1190,914-347-2239 > IGC Advanced Superconductors Inc.,CT,W,203-753-5215,203-753-2096 > Innovare Inc.,PA,M,610-837-8830, > Intermagnetics General Corp.,NY,M,518-786-1122, > InterWire Group,NY,W,800-799-4978,914-273-6510 > MolecuWire Corp.,NJ,W,908-938-9473,908-938-3189 > Omega Engiuneering Inc.,CT,W,800-826-6342,203-359-7700 > Oxford Superconducting Technology,NJ,W,908-541-1300,908-541-7769 > Rea Engineeered Wire Products Inc.,IN,W,219-422-4252,219-422-4246 > SAES Getters USA Inc.,CO ,M,719-576-3200,719-576-5025 > Satcon Technology Corp.,MA,M,800-663-4916,617-661-3373 > SonoTec Corp.,NY,C,917-795-2020,914-795-2720 > Superconductive Componenets,OH ,M,800-346-6567,800-292-8654 > Superconductor Tech Inc.,CA,M,805-683-8527,805-683-8527 > Superconix Inc. ,MN,M,612-222-0046,612-222-0049 > Vacuumschmelze (Siemens),NJ,M,908-494-3530,908-603-5994 > Watteredge Uniflex Inc.,OH,W,216-871-9215,216-933-8248 > > Addresses and other supplier companies can be found at the Thomas Register > Company home page at: > > > > I am interrested in pursuing HTSC motor applications eventually but have > lots of unrelated experiments in my queue or on the table and zip for cash > lately, so I have been putting this off. The more discussion occurs about > superconductors the more it seems I have made a mistake in priorities. And > then there is the Tampere antigravity stuff ... > > It would be useful to find out what the best texts on superconductivity are > and where they can be bought, and similar info for HTSC kits. Maybe HTSC > ceramic making discussions would be worthwhile also. I seem to recall a > high school kit for such. Any suggestions on any of the above would be > appreciated. > > That's my two cents worth. Anyone else have feelings about finding an > overall approach to looking for EM solutions to the energy problem? > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Horace, I enjoy your posts. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------728E3AF52FDE-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 02:32:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA10410; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:31:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:31:12 -0800 Message-ID: <32D76A4D.5B19@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:54:13 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Floating Magnets References: <970110010844_71232.360_GHL52-1@CompuServe.COM> <32D81E30.3F94@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FP3yg.0.YY2.glsro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1247 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Max wrote: > > Chris Malcheski wrote: > > > I have a Levitron sitting here on my desk. Theory said it couldn't be done. > > Here it spins, floating about 1.5" above the desk, hovering in mid-air for over > > 3 minutes now with nothing but permanent magnets. Theory was wrong and this > > thing only exists because some guy decided to sit down and build the thing - > > rejecting the theory that dictated all the things that would not and could not > > happen. Theory is the only reason why this thing didn't exist until 1996. They > > had the technology to build it 200 years ago. Or more. They thought they > > already knew. And ... as (almost) always, it didn't come down to theory being > > WRONG, but simply INCOMPLETE. > > Please tell me what a Levtron is - Ive never heard of it. > > Max. Hi Chris, Good work. But this type of device as been around for many years. Just need fairly hard magnets. Have you tried my model? It works. SSSS I I I I <--------------Rod Magent (Neo Dym) I I NNNN RR NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN I I <------Ring magnet (Any strong type) SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS RR RR RR RR RR <--------------Non Magnetic rod RR RR RR RR NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN I I SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS RR SSSS I I I I I I NNNM -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 02:58:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA12994; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:57:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 02:57:06 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:27:18 +1100 Message-Id: <199701111327.AAA20776@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"2Le1M3.0.uA3.18tro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1248 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:23 AM 11/01/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Is anyone perchance interested in time travel, theories, the nature of >time, etc.? > >John > > >Personally I think some of the UFO's are future time travellers check us out Geoff From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 03:08:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA01839; Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:08:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:08:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:40:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701110340.TAA14595@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: LC Tanks, =?iso-8859-1?Q?don=B4t?= use simulation software ! Resent-Message-ID: <"o7y0d1.0.ZS.k8nro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1228 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:58 PM 1/10/97 +0100, you wrote: >>Here we go with RLC circuits again! >> >>Most of these ideas seem to come out of the Bearden/Tesla camp with >>variations on an RLC tank circuit with time-variant circuit changes. To >>an engineer, these configurations bear remarkable resemblance to >>standard switching power supply techcniques and are very well >>documented. >> >>The PODMOD, by Richard MCGee, is the most notible example of this type >>of circuit. He has patented a device claiming O/U. It utilises 2 LC >>tank circuits basically shuffling current two and fro through a >>resistive load. > >What is a PODMOD ??? Patent number please ? DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME MAKING A PODMOD. RICHARD MCGEE WAS PAID A LARGE SUM OF MONEY BY A MEMBER OF THIS LIST TO PRODUCE A WORKING MODEL. HE WAS UNSUCCESFUL, IF HE CAN'T MAKE IT WORK I DOUBT IF ANYONE ELSE CAN.> crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 03:46:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA23302; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 03:44:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 03:44:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199701111144.MAA16233@mailbox.swip.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Tommy Andersson" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:45:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_LC_Tanks,_don=A6t_use_simulation_software_!?= Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Resent-Message-ID: <"d7Vuy.0._h5.jqtro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1249 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > What is a PODMOD ??? Patent number please ? > > PODMOD is an acronym for Power On Demand MODule. Im sorry I dont know > the patent number. It's 5,146,395. --------------------------------- Tommy Andersson tommy.andersson@mbox2.swipnet.se http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-18351 SWEDEN --------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 04:20:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA25935; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:19:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:19:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32D7858C.366B@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:20:28 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g0UsZ1.0.8L6.uKuro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1250 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John R. Tooker wrote: > > Is anyone perchance interested in time travel, theories, the nature of > time, etc.? > > John Absolutely. Let's start a thread about this subject. I believe the possibility of time travel is related to energy, mass and space. These are the same concepts that are necessary to develop or explain so called "free energy" devices. -- Phil Gantt See my web page at: http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 04:26:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA26889; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:24:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:24:48 -0800 Message-ID: <32D786E3.52C1@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:26:11 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar EM Fields References: <32D3B833.5C1B@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R7y1v2.0.2a6.FQuro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1251 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Thank you for greate importance mail by Bob Shannon. This man know what he > said about scalar fields! > > I have to add only one point: there is concept about three aspects > for energy: electrical (linear), magnetic (flat), bio (spatial). > > 1.Electrical interaction: Body A ----------------------------- Body B > force line of interaction > > 2.Magnet interaction: Ersted experiment > > . . > . > . > N . coil of wire and current in it > . \ . > \ S. > . \ > . > . > . . > > Force is 90 degrees position (ortogonal) to coil plane. > It is new Deckart's co-ordinates axis produced by nature > for new type of interaction. > > So, we have already a two-dimensional space of coil (flat) and > perpendicular line to it, i.e. all three spatial axises are in operation. > > 3. New type of interaction would use new dimension. It is a Time. > So, scalar technology is a technology for Time Machine mainly. Biological > effects are connected with objective properties of biological systems to > take energy from a time flow. When parameters of time flow is changed, the > vital functions of biosystems can be suppressed or accelerated. Are you dismissing the possibility of a fourth spatial dimension. My intuition tells me that time is not a dimension, but rather a mechanism that we percieve as an effect of mass and inertia - basic properties of matter. > Also it is a reason for known effects for change of half-decay period in > area of scalar field. It is one of detection methods. Could you explain the following please: 1. What is your definition of a scalar field? 2. How are scalar fields detected? Thanks. > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 -- Phil Gantt See my web page at: http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 04:47:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA28656; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:45:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:45:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 05:40:18 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <199701111327.AAA20776@main.murray.net.au> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kRZZ_3.0.c_6.xjuro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1252 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > >Personally I think some of the UFO's are future time travellers check us out > Geoff > > Quite possibly. I recall reading in "Antigravity and the World Grid" ed. by D. Hatcher Childress, that John Searl had some effects that may have been time related, with his disks. I believe that one or two of his disks rose up in to the air, and literally disappeared during some experiments. Possibly, beings from the future may have learned to control this effect, and achieve time travel. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 04:47:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA28686; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:46:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 04:46:03 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 05:44:03 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: Phil Gantt Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <32D7858C.366B@ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XYvzY1.0.707.8kuro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1253 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Absolutely. Let's start a thread about this subject. I believe the > possibility of time travel is related to energy, mass and space. These > are the same concepts that are necessary to develop or explain so called > "free energy" devices. > -- > Phil Gantt > See my web page at: > http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html > > I would also reccomend finding a copy of "Experimental Study Of The Properties Of Time" by Nikolai Kozyrev. I got my copy from Rex Research, in Jean, Nevada. I believe that the sum total of the paper, and the results of the experiments was that time *is* a force, possibly a standing wave, or a scalar wave that travels 700 kilometers per second, plus or minus 50 km. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 05:51:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA03442; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 05:49:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 05:49:56 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:49:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970111084916_1623052479@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"bog6I.0.er.3gvro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1254 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>I believe that the sum total of the paper, and the results of the experiments was that time *is* a force, possibly a standing wave, or a scalar wave that travels 700 kilometers per second, plus or minus 50 km.>>> Einstein's Relativity states that it goes the speed of light. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 05:58:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04214; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 05:57:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 05:57:09 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:56:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970111085632_537100617@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How to look for free EM energy? Resent-Message-ID: <"Nmw-H1.0.i11.pmvro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1255 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Would you consider Quantum Physics "conventional"? Because it has been shown that the conservation of energy can, and HAS TO be broken...if for only in a small time scale. These are how vacuum fluctuations are create (but almost right after the are created, they are destroyed.) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 06:09:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA05752; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 06:07:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 06:07:44 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:06:32 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701111406.IAA15142@bluestem.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks, don´t use simulation software ! Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"9Zvr62.0.nP1.kwvro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1256 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >Ok Stefan, > >If the currently accepted laws are wrong, what are the correct ones? I >need to know this so I can make these corrections to my software and >redo the experiments. > See Horace Heffner's excellent recent post. Maybe we don't know the correct laws yet! Remember, we are PIONEERS in this area and have to be willing to throw out the "conventional laws" in search of new ones. >> But if it is really this way, only a pratical experiment will prove ! > >Not so. If we know the true variation on the laws then we can do the >designs on our computers as supposedly the 'big boys' are doing. > Also, keep in mind the "big boys" do not necessarily know all the TRUE laws of physics ... if so, why bother to do research? A computer simulation which does not take into consideration some unknown anomaly would not predict it. I keep mentioning the book TAPPING THE ZERO-POINT ENERGY by Moray B. King (because it is an excellent book). How many of you have read it? It mentions several possible phenomena which fit outside the framework of conventional physics. Another book which describes modifications of the existing known laws of physics to predict some anomalies is CAUSALITY, ELECTROMAGNETIC INDUCTION, GRAVITATION by Oleg Jefimenko (also an excellent book). I feel, as Mr. Heffner does, that if we are going to produce free energy, what are needed are NEW theories. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 07:32:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA18724; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 07:31:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 07:31:32 -0800 From: Stephen Wassell Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-ID: <853018522snx@sv.span.com> X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.43 $ X-Poster: RAID@span.com, Sound & Vision Internet BBS [+44] (0)181-288-8444 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 97 14:35:22 GMT Organization: oink Lines: 30 Resent-Message-ID: <"Cpzb02.0.Ta4.I9xro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1257 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In article <32D28DCE.7B9A@worldonline.nl> you write: >Bob Shannon wrote: >Ok, But what about this one: > >1) Take a magnet and coil. > Mount them so that they can't move. ( --M-- --C--) >2) Change the field between the magnet and coil. ( here --^ ) > ( Rotating a wheel with iron strips or something like that... ) >3) Current is produced. > The magnet delivers energy. ( it's field actual. ) > >The wheel needs external energy to rotate, but the (motionless) magnet >is giving energy to the (motionless) coil. Right ? >So the magnet should be fading in power. Right ? > >So, is the magnet being demagnetized in this case ? I'm not sure how this system would be any different to a normal dynamo-type setup, where the magnet and coil move relative to each other. It's still just rotating something to disrupt the field. I haven't got facilities to actually build this device but just moving a small piece of steel past a strong magnet does create a lot of resistance. There seems to be just as much energy going into this system as a dynamo. -__-_--_._--_-__-.._--_-__-.-__-_--_..._--_-__-.-__-_--_..-__-_--_._--_-__- _____ __ __ / ____)\ \ / / Stephen Wassell \____ \ \ \/\/ / swassell@sv.span.com (_____/ \_/\_/ See my home page! - http://www.wassell.demon.co.uk/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 07:57:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA22701; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 07:55:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 07:55:43 -0800 Date: 11 Jan 97 10:53:25 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Message-ID: <970111155324_71232.360_GHL95-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"PMOoR.0.YY5.zVxro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1258 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi John, To state the obvious, time travel has to be achievable via some kind of energy field, and indications are that it certainly doesn't need to be very high powered - the human brain is able to do it with no problem (too bad we can't feasibly control when or how this happens.) Which leaves: what kinds of energy fields are sufficiently unexplored that the answer could lie there? -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 08:11:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA24787; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:09:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:09:57 -0800 Message-ID: <32D8BF82.6A@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:40:02 -0800 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications - Lighting, Concert & Special Effects X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <853018522snx@sv.span.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xyEIM1.0.736.Ijxro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1259 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >Bob Shannon wrote: > >Ok, But what about this one: > > > >1) Take a magnet and coil. > > Mount them so that they can't move. ( --M-- --C--) > >2) Change the field between the magnet and coil. ( here --^ ) > > ( Rotating a wheel with iron strips or something like that... ) > >3) Current is produced. > > The magnet delivers energy. ( it's field actual. ) > > > >The wheel needs external energy to rotate, but the (motionless) magnet > >is giving energy to the (motionless) coil. Right ? > >So the magnet should be fading in power. Right ? > > > >So, is the magnet being demagnetized in this case ? > I know not , I was always under the impression ( maybe wrong ) that an "Unkept" magnet does indeed lose its magnetism over time. The ammount of effort required to rotate the ( Chopper vane ) - for want of a better description - would normally outweigh the energy that can be extracted from the ..Um .. Er... "Pickup coil" - I Think ! Steven Wassel added ... > I'm not sure how this system would be any different to a normal dynamo-type > setup, where the magnet and coil move relative to each other. It's still > just rotating something to disrupt the field. > > I haven't got facilities to actually build this device but just moving a > small piece of steel past a strong magnet does create a lot of resistance. > There seems to be just as much energy going into this system as a dynamo. > I think you got that Right Steven. I wonder if "Mu-Metal" - like they used to use to shield C.R.O tubes from stray magnetic fields - is 1) still available - Cheaply ! & 2) useable in some of these experiments ? Just my $0.02 Glenville. gsawyer@dove.net.au http://dove.net.au/~gsawyer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 08:36:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA29888; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:34:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:34:49 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:34:32 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701111634.RAA29018@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Naudin=A5s?= G-field results.... Resent-Message-ID: <"xSPTy3.0.tI7.c4yro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1260 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bob, you wrote in answer to Stefan: > >Ideas must evolve like anything else, by competition, and survival of >the fittest. I would propose that ideas should evolve by cross pollination. They develop by taking food from known facts, others' ideas and of course intuition. Survival of the fittest is of course also involved, in that the ideas that actually get applied have to fit the reality of the physical universe, if not - no progress. But survival of the fittest does not really seem to be a measure for the success of ideas. Many times an idea that fits established concepts is preferred over one that would upset some applecarts. The eastern cultures have a way of dealing with ideas that is completely different from ours. They listen, without having to evaluate, without having to say agreed or not agreed. Some time later, they will come up with their own idea and communicate it, and so things (or rather ideas) develop. Our system, based on greek 'logic' is very much fixed on an idea having to be either right or wrong, and once an idea has been 'disproved', it is no longer looked at, even the whole direction that the idea went into becomes somewhat of a taboo by association. Both systems have their positive points, and I think we should find a good middle ground between them, to be inventive and productive. Free energy list seems a good example of taking from both systems. Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 08:44:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA31597; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:42:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:42:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:44:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199701111644.RAA14881@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Flux flow simulation Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ibbDW1.0.bj7.mByro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1261 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Stephan, > >Have not done leaving sequence as it will be the same as entering >sequence. Just reverse the following comments. > >No coil currents were used in the first 20 pics. I just wanted >all to see and understand how the flux flows through the moving and >right hand ferrite (permalloy65). > >Please notice that the flux flowing through the right hand ferrite >actually drops on approach as the moving ferrite offers the magnet >a better path for its flux to flow and return to the south pole. > >As the ferrite enters the gap, please notice flux rising in the >right ferrite and reaching a max as the moving ferrite is centered >in the gap. This is because flux is now flowing from the magnets >north pole through the moving ferrite and through the right hand >ferrite back to the magnets south pole. > >I didn't simulate the right hand ferrite trying to hold the flux >value, but it should seem quite clear what will happen. > >As the ferrite approaches the gap and flux is falling in the >right hand coil, wound around the right hand ferrite, it will >attempt to hold the ferrite's flux constant. Please note that this >WILL NOT create a opposing north pole on the ferrites left hand side, >it will only hold the strength of the existing south pole. This >holding ferrite flux (which is larger than if the coil current were not >flowing) flux will draw flux from the magnet at the expense >of flux flowing in the moving ferrite and so the moving ferrite will >be attracted less strongly into the gap. The magnet will also see >a better overall external flux path and move up it's B/H curve, >increasing overall system flux. This will increase flux flowing >in both ferrites. As the right ferrite is now offering a better >flux path (relative to the path offered if coil current were not >flowing) >the flux divison between both ferrites will still see >more relative flux flowing in the right ferrite and attraction >decreasing. >Someone has to pay for the current flowing in the ferrite's coil >and unluckly for the moving ferrite its it. Damn mother nature >wins again! Yes, but the iron plate is still pulled into the gap. Maybe not at the best accelaration, but still pulled in. Now it is time to compare these forces versus the forces, when the coil is switch off and the iron plate wants to leave the gap. How strong is the force from the single PM at the left side to hold back the iron plate from moving out of the gap ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 08:53:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA01165; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:51:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 08:51:59 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:51:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970111115113_1141918570@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Magnistor testing Resent-Message-ID: <"2JgCR.0.2I.hKyro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1262 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 11/01/1997 09:08:08, you wrote : Hi Max, << Questions: 1. Is the ferrite stick isotropic? If so what orientation is the material: along the length or across the width? >> I think that this ferrite stick is isotropic, this is a feroxcube model, the model have 8 mm diameter. The max value of AB signal is obtained with d3 = 20 mm, d1=0, d2=60mm, e= 6mm The U-shaped core have 6x6mm section and is made with transformer lamination. Magnet (BaFe) : 25x40x10 mm ======= L2 oIIo oIIo L3 d3 oIIo oIIo ooooooo oIIo oIIo _______ A--------ooooooo d1 II e II d2 I I ============================I I f ============================I S N I Magnet (BaFe) ============================I I B--------ooooooo I_______I ooooooo L1 f = Ferrite core (BaFe) L1 = Output Coil ( Voltage ouput in AB) L2-L3 = Gate flux excitation coils : power 9 volts/AC, in serial mode. The excitation core is a U-shaped core made with transformer laminations. << 2. Are you saturating the ferrite between the poles of the gating coil, or is the flux operating on the linear part of the BH curve for the ferrite? >> Yes the ferrite is saturated between the poles of the gating coil. The Magnistor project is under developpement and the tests have not been completly performed, today. Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 09:47:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA19829; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:46:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:46:05 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:45:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970111124526_373673184@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Floating Magnets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.29495.emout14.mail.aol.com.853004726" Resent-Message-ID: <"Qw7ih1.0.kr4.R7zro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1263 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.29495.emout14.mail.aol.com.853004726 Content-ID: <0_29495_853004726@emout14.mail.aol.com.29962> Content-type: text/plain On 11/01/1997 11:53:17, you wrote : << Max wrote: > > Chris Malcheski wrote: > > > I have a Levitron sitting here on my desk. Theory said it couldn't be done. > > Here it spins, floating about 1.5" above the desk, hovering in mid-air for over > > 3 minutes now with nothing but permanent magnets. >> >> Yes it is a wonderfull amazing device !!!, I have attached with this document the picture of my Levitron device.....It's work perfectly !!! We have an intersting report of Martin D. Simon (University of California, Los Angeles) at : http://aps.org/BAPSMAR96/tocH.html#SH33.058 And commercials infos at : http://www.lauralee.com:80/levitron.htm Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin JNaudin509@aol.com --PART.BOUNDARY.0.29495.emout14.mail.aol.com.853004726 Content-ID: <0_29495_853004726@emout14.mail.aol.com.29963> Content-type: image/jpeg; name="LEVITRON.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAD0AV4DASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAwADAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwYHBQQI/8QARBAAAQMC BAQDBgQEBAQGAwEAAQIRIQAxAxJBUQQiYXEFgZEGEzKhsfBCwdHhBxQj8TNSYnIVFjSCJTWS orLCJENTc//EABoBAAMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAgMEBQb/xAApEQACAgEEAgICAgIDAAAA AAAAAQIRAwQSITETQSIyUWEFFCMzUoHw/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDcjALghSnlgSATNwTcB7mz 6EWrIlWUnJhqYcioUCbzFtezXiCchDEcrahL2Y2YdD0bsJT7xJchIBPwCbAMQkRpynUC+vSm 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Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:15:38 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:16:39 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: How to look for free EM energy? Resent-Message-ID: <"_nA3D3.0.hg6.7Zzro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1264 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Would you consider Quantum Physics "conventional"? Because it has been shown >that the conservation of energy can, and HAS TO be broken...if for only in a >small time scale. These are how vacuum fluctuations are create (but almost >right after the are created, they are destroyed.) You can only borrow the energy, and then the universal debt collector catches up with you. He is very efficient. The more you borrow the faster he catches you. If you can figure aout way to escape the boudaries of this problem you are home free. However, the discussions of late about EM circuits, o-u strategies, etc., don't seem to be based upon quantum mechanics. Maybe you have some suggestions? Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 10:56:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA04067; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:55:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 10:55:04 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:54:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970111135424_1991667312@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"H-TD3.0.P_.68-ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1265 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: <<<>>> Um...how is the brain capable of time travel? Have I missed something? -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 11:29:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA12662; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:28:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:28:20 -0800 Message-ID: <32D7C5EF.72C8@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:25:11 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnetic Energy References: <853018522snx@sv.span.com> <32D8BF82.6A@dove.mtx.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1qwQZ1.0.l53.Fd-ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1266 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Glenville Sawyer wrote: > > > >Bob Shannon wrote: > > >Ok, But what about this one: > > > > > >1) Take a magnet and coil. > > > Mount them so that they can't move. ( --M-- --C--) > > >2) Change the field between the magnet and coil. ( here --^ ) > > > ( Rotating a wheel with iron strips or something like that... ) > > >3) Current is produced. > > > The magnet delivers energy. ( it's field actual. ) > > > > > >The wheel needs external energy to rotate, but the (motionless) magnet > > >is giving energy to the (motionless) coil. Right ? > > >So the magnet should be fading in power. Right ? > > > > > >So, is the magnet being demagnetized in this case ? > > > > I know not , I was always under the impression ( maybe wrong ) that an > "Unkept" magnet does indeed lose its magnetism over time. > > The ammount of effort required to rotate the ( Chopper vane ) - for want > of a better description - would normally outweigh the energy that can be > extracted from the ..Um .. Er... "Pickup coil" - I Think ! > > Steven Wassel added ... > > > I'm not sure how this system would be any different to a normal dynamo-type > > setup, where the magnet and coil move relative to each other. It's still > > just rotating something to disrupt the field. > > > > I haven't got facilities to actually build this device but just moving a > > small piece of steel past a strong magnet does create a lot of resistance. > > There seems to be just as much energy going into this system as a dynamo. > > I think you got that Right Steven. > > I wonder if "Mu-Metal" - like they used to use to shield C.R.O tubes > from stray magnetic fields - is 1) still available - Cheaply ! & > 2) useable in some of these experiments ? > > Just my $0.02 > > Glenville. > > gsawyer@dove.net.au > http://dove.net.au/~gsawyer Hi Glen, Stay tuned. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 11:32:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA14397; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:31:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 11:31:09 -0800 Message-ID: <32D7E802.1437@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 05:50:34 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: josephnewman@earthlink.net, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Beyond Newman to DNMEC References: <199701111644.RAA14881@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"o6QQo1.0.qW3.wf-ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1267 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >Greg Watson wrote : > >Hi Stephan, > > > >Have not done leaving sequence as it will be the same as entering > >sequence. Just reverse the following comments. > > > >No coil currents were used in the first 20 PICS. I just wanted > >all to see and understand how the flux flows through the moving and > >right hand ferrite (permalloy65). > > > >Please notice that the flux flowing through the right hand ferrite > >actually drops on approach as the moving ferrite offers the magnet > >a better path for its flux to flow and return to the south pole. > > > >As the ferrite enters the gap, please notice flux rising in the > >right ferrite and reaching a max as the moving ferrite is centered > >in the gap. This is because flux is now flowing from the magnets > >north pole through the moving ferrite and through the right hand > >ferrite back to the magnets south pole. > > > >I didn't simulate the right hand ferrite trying to hold the flux > >value, but it should seem quite clear what will happen. > > > >As the ferrite approaches the gap and flux is falling in the > >right hand coil, wound around the right hand ferrite, it will > >attempt to hold the ferrite's flux constant. Please note that this > >WILL NOT create an opposing north pole on the ferrite's left hand side, > >it will only hold the strength of the existing south pole. This > >holding ferrite flux (which is larger than if the coil current were not > >flowing) flux will draw flux from the magnet at the expense > >of flux flowing in the moving ferrite and so the moving ferrite will > >be attracted less strongly into the gap. The magnet will also see > >a better overall external flux path and move up it's B/H curve, > >increasing overall system flux. This will increase flux flowing > >in both ferrites. As the right ferrite is now offering a better > >flux path (relative to the path offered if coil current were not > >flowing) > >the flux division between both ferrites will still see > >more relative flux flowing in the right ferrite and attraction > >decreasing. > >Someone has to pay for the current flowing in the ferrite's coil > >and unluckily for the moving ferrite its it. Damn mother nature > >wins again! > > Yes, but the iron plate is still pulled into the gap. > Maybe not at the best acceleration, but still pulled in. > > Now it is time to compare these forces versus the forces, > when the coil is switch off and the iron plate wants > to leave the gap. How strong is the force from the single PM > at the left side to hold back the iron plate from moving out of the gap ? > > Regards, Stefan. Hi Stephan, You are right. Now is the time. Today we stand on the brink of tomorrow. I have addressed this post to you to recognize your efforts over the years in being a true believer in over unity while not loosing an open mind that sometimes we are mistaken in our assumptions. Not wrong, just mistaken or not understanding all the facts and coming to incorrect assumptions and conclusions. It is a funny thing about us humans, that we seem to sense when something can be done, maybe we can sense the flow of future time, and then get very frustrated in trying to find the path that we KNOW is there. Anyway to the business of Epitxay's idea. We have so far looked at the approach phase as flux is decreasing in the right hand ferrite. But look further and see that flux starts to increase in that right hand ferrite. At some point, the flux builds up to be equal to the flux that was present when the coil was shorted. At that point, the coil current will REVERSE and form an opposing North pole as the coil attempts to hold the ferrite's flux constant. This North pole will now offer a reduced path for the magnets flux and force the magnets flux out to meet the approaching ferrite block. (See my NN, NS Gifs) Now it gets very interesting and we move into new ground. The flux forced out finds a good flux path in the approaching ferrite and flows through it. This increasing flux density between the moving ferrite and the magnet now INCREASES the ferrite's attraction into the gap and the ferrite is accelerated. As the ferrite moves deeper into the gap more and more REVERSE coil current flows to attempt to block the increasing flux density being caused by the approaching ferrite and more and more of the magnets flux is directed into the approaching ferrite. Its moving energy is growing quickly. It is also causing MASSIVE current to flow in the coil as the coil attempts to hold the ferrite's flux at the lower level encountered then the coil was first shorted. So what do we have so far? As the ferrite approached the gap, initially its acceleration was retarded by the coil current as we all expected. But now what's happening is not expected. The ferrite is being attracted into the gap by very strong flux densities over short distances. These densities continue to build, the distances to get shorter and LARGE reverse coil currents to flow. Starting to sound like another device yet? When the moving ferrite is finally centered in the gap and starts to move out, flux densities start to fall. NOW we open the coil. Many things happen very quickly. The coil's field caused by the coil's current falls quickly (Sub micro second stuff), sometime later when the ferrite's domains realize that the coil's field is gone, they to unalign their domains and a second field falls (Much slower than the coil current field) (Could be several micro seconds but still fast). Most folks don't realize this two field fall, but its real. The right hand ferrite's domains then start aligning with the magnets flux. This also happens to the moving ferrite's domains. As the ferrite moves out of the gap it will experience ferromagnetic induced back drag, (Not Letz, not eddy currents) but not much as we have returned to the magnets flux being divided between the two ferrites. Don't get hung up with the falling field, they is nothing conductive around for eddy currents to be induced in. Putting a load on the coil is not a good idea as it will only retard the fall of the coil's field and increase back drag. It already done its work, let it die in peace. There is a small engineering problem as how to handle the very large voltages induced into the coil by this rapid field decrease. Perhaps something like a non linear load that only conducts at high voltages would be a good idea. Just be sure the current flow doesn't cause too much back drag. Just one of several engineering problems to be ironed out. I have an idea, what about a neon tube? So what do we have? A system which delivers increasing moving ferrite energy AND very large reverse coil currents. Now if you are still with me, you may be starting to see where I am going. The above is real, I can simulate it and Epitxay turntable tests verify it. Lets alter a few items. If we want to reduce the back drag caused by ferromagnetic attraction, lets get rid of the right hand ferrite and use an air coil with many....many turns. If we put enough turns on, the effect on the approach phase will be the same, but on the exit phase there will not be ANY ferromagnetic drag back and the field will collapse very quick. Know of any device which has stated that the device needs a LARGE air coil, using ferrites in the coil causes the device not to work so well and suffers problems with massive voltage spikes as the coil collapses? We should now move away from the coil being shorted all the time and look at other arrangements. The ideal method might be to power the coil from a DC source during the very early phase just long enough to overcome friction and the small reduction in attraction as the flux initially falls, then short the coil as the moving ferrite goes through the flux falling phase to the flux increasing phase, then connect the coil again to the DC source so it can receive the very large REVERSE current flow as the reverse coil current attempts to hold the coil flux constant and finally open the coil so as to reduce any back drag as the ferrite moves out of the gap. Would need a complicated commutator. But maybe if we look at the overall engineering, we would find that the device would still work OK if we just powered the coil from a DC source. Only then need a simple commutator which just opens and closes the connection from the coil to a DC source. Suspect that if batteries were used to power the device, they might even be recharged by the reverse current flow. Again don't get hung up on the large voltage spikes as the coil opens, they need to be there as the coil's field needs to fall quickly to reduce back drag. Other than cause a problem they do not enter into the energy flow discussion. One problem is that if we now attempt to power this device from its own reverse power output via a generator connected to a rotary moving ferrite system, we would find the generator now acting like a brake as the reverse current flow would turn the generator into a motor and the motor would counter the torque increase gained. Does this sound familiar? Today I think we own Mr. Joseph Newman an apology. I have just shown his motor does work. It does produce over unity operation and I believe I have explained all the funny side effects we have all read about. Mr. Joseph Newman, you were right. Your motor does work. But why did you and Evan cloud the issue with talk about things in left field. Why have I had to reinvent the wheel today? Why don't I own my own Newman based power source? There is no need to invent new physics. Its all right here. The only problem is that the electrical output is not easily gotten at. Very much earlier I did suggest a way to get electrical energy from a Newman motor. Its on Stephan's web page. It is not my intention to restart the Newman flame war. I will, of course enter into sane, rational discussion about the above either by private or group email. I only ask that you first look at my 20 simulation pics, read my earlier posts, open your minds and think through what I have said. Everything I have said is real. There may not be equations which mirror what's happening. Don't fall into the trap of trying to redefine my words to fit into your existing understanding of physics. Open your minds, look at the pics, read my words and think. Then lets talk. This is only 1 (and not a very good one) of several ways to what I call Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. (DNMEC) (My copyright) I know that I have placed my words and ideas into the public domain. May it foster your thinking out of the square. I would be pleased to enter into private discussions with any interested parties about the commercialization of my other DNMEC ideas. Live long and prosper. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 12:42:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA02753; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:40:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:40:52 -0800 From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: w9sz@prairienet.org Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks, don´t use simulation software ! Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:47:56 -0500 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: References: <199701111406.IAA15142@bluestem.prairienet.org> In-Reply-To: <199701111406.IAA15142@bluestem.prairienet.org> Lines: 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"5pGyJ1.0.wg.Gh_ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1270 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>> But if it is really this way, only a pratical experiment will prove ! >> >>Not so. If we know the true variation on the laws then we can do the >>designs on our computers as supposedly the 'big boys' are doing. >> > >Also, keep in mind the "big boys" do not necessarily know all the TRUE >laws of physics ... if so, why bother to do research? "The Laws of Nature do not change. Only our understanding of them." - The X-Files -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 12:42:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA02720; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:40:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:40:44 -0800 From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Re: Lenz Law Harnessing, Flux switch works ! Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:31:49 -0500 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: References: <970109175804_1991397908@emout19.mail.aol.com> <32D539D1.7E0B@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <32D539D1.7E0B@tiac.net> Lines: 90 Resent-Message-ID: <"aQcGV1.0.Hg.7h_ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1268 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Even a device with no power input, and some power output cannot easily >claim to be over unity. As an example, the Barkhausen Effect battery >design (in the not your average construction projects section of Bill's >web site) needs more careful examination. > >Do we know that as current is drawn from the coil that there is no work >done against the magnets? If there is, then this design may not be over >unity, even without any external energy input at all! > >I've been waiting to hear this objection raised, but have not yet, and >so I must raise this question myself. I've been trying to dig up more info on the Barkhausen Effect, and here are a few abstracts I've come across (Maybe some one near a good library can locate these, the library here can't): "Self-Organized critically and the Barkhausen effect" by Cote, P.J; Meisel, L.V. Physical Review Letters Vol. 67 No. 10 2 Sept. 1991 PP. 1334-7 "The Barkhausen effect was studied in an amorphous alloy. The data exhibit all the attributes of self-organized critical behavior enumerated by Bak, Tang, and Wiesenfeld (1987-8): The distribution of lifetimes and areas of discrete Barkhausen pulses follow power-law distributions, which have been modified to account for finite-size effects as suggested by Kadanoff, Nagel, Wu, and Zhou (1989). The directly measured power spectral density has the form of flicker noise, with distribution of pulse areas and lifetimes in the light of the work of Jensen, Christensen, and Fogeby (1989)." "Anomalous Barkhausen noise produced by the magnetic aftereffect in ferromagnetic amorphous ribbons" by Celasco, M.; Mazzetti, P.; Stepanescu, A.; Masoero, A. Journal of Applied Physics Vol. 64 No. 10 15 Nov. 1988. "It has been shown that the presence of a magnetic aftereffect in amorphous ferromagnets is the origin of an anomalous Barkhausen (B.) noise. Experiments on commercial Metglas 2605 SC and 2605 CO alloys have evidence an increment of the power spectrum of the noise of up to two orders of magnitude. This fact has been interrupted as due to the competitive effect between the onset of a viscosity field and a large B. discontinuity. In the present paper experiments on the anomalous B. noise are extended to higher temperatures and the excess noise generated by the magnetic aftereffect evaluated on the basis of viscosity field measurements done on the same specimens. This allows the authors to check and improve a theoretical model presented in a previous paper (1988). "The influence of the skin effect on eddy current losses induced by Barkhausen jumps for the single domain wall model" by Roman, A. Journal of Magnetism and Magnetic Materials. (Netherlands) Vol. 74 No. 3 Oct 1988 PP. 359-64. "The influence of the skin effect on eddy current losses in the amorphous material Metglas 2826 has been studied. In the majority of works the problem of eddy current losses has been reduced to the solution of the Laplace equation. In the paper the Helmholtz equation has been solved which enables the author to take into consideration the skin effect. The model in which the domains are separated by a 180 degree Block wall has been used for calculations. The losses were calculated for the case of the wall moving sinusoidally. The obtained solution contains the whole phenomenon. The results have been compared with experimental data for the same material." (?) "Peculiar characteristic of the magnetic aftereffect in zero-magnetostrictive amorphous ribbons." by Buttion, G.; Cecchetti, A.; Poppi, M.; Zini, G. Physica Scipta (Sweden) Vol 35 No. 5 May 1987 PP. 721-3. "The dependence of critical magnetic field for the onset of irreversible magnetic processes has been studied on as cast and annealed Metglas 2705MN samples as a function of the waiting time after demagnetization. The kinetics of the processes has been analyzed through measurements of complex permeability and the results have been correlated to the time behavior of the initial permeability. The atomic structure instabilities characteristic of non-magnetorstrictive amorphous alloys account for the obtained results." -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 12:42:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA02731; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:40:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:40:44 -0800 From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks, don´t use simulation software ! Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:41:19 -0500 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: References: <199701102058.VAA00326@atom.bbtt.com> <32D83A82.7254@triode.net.au> In-Reply-To: <32D83A82.7254@triode.net.au> Lines: 113 Resent-Message-ID: <"Oy9Ye2.0.Zg.8h_ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1269 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >If the currently accepted laws are wrong, what are the correct ones? I >need to know this so I can make these corrections to my software and >redo the experiments. >From some thing I wrote for the Circuit Cellar BBS long ago: 1) "Railgun Research Shoots Holes In Lorentz's Theory": pg 49; "Railgun Research Shoots Holes In Lorentz Law Of Electromagnetism": pg 50; by Chappell Brown; Electronic Engineering Times Monday, April 6, 1987 pg 49 2) "Anomalies In Electromagnetic Law Spur Debate" pg 58, by Chappell Brown; Electronic Engineering Times Monday, September 14, 1987. 3) "Electrons And Conduction: Not So Simple After All": pg 21; "Lorentz No Longer Gives Answers Ampere's Theory Holds Clues to Current Problem": pg 22, by Chappell Brown, Electronic Engineering Times, Monday, December 28, 1987 4) "Debate Over Use Of Energy Weapons Thrives" pg 41, by ? Van Nostrand; Electronic Engineering Times, Monday, September 7, 1987 5) "Dusting Off An Old Idea: Shooting Into Orbit": pg 37, by Chappell Brown; Electronic Engineering Times, Monday, August 31, 1987 6) Defense Electronics, May 1988 Vol. 20, #5, "SDI: More Spin- Offs Than Apollo?" Pg 39-45, by J.W.R -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ref #2: "It is important to realize that the mismatch between theory and observation is not some barely discernible quantity. [It] involves factors in the thousands." So says Peter Graneau, a Physicist at Northeastern University's Center of Electromagnetics Research, commenting on anomalies in Lorentz's force law. "The situation is more than academic bickering, since the formula is one of the pillars of relativity theory." "Graneau has shown that objects move, buckle and break under forces that are not found in current electromagnetic equations." -------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ref #3: "...the Ampere and Lorentz laws only agree for closed circuits. When the source of the electromagnetic effect is an isolated current element, a large discrepancy appears." "Amperean forces also explain the wire fragmentation that occurs at high currents. Current-element analysis also explains the existence of the longitudinal electromagnetic waves that were observed by Radio pioneer Nikola Tesla. Because such waves cannot be derived from Maxwell's equations, Tesla's experiments were ignored..." -------------------------------------------------------------------- From ref #5: "A physicist [Peter Graneau] at Northeastern University has found that current pulses in water can develop strong forces which, when contained in a gun barrel, produce unprecedented muzzle velocities." "...Northeastern's new electromagnetics research center has uncovered a new 'electrodynamic' phenomenon, dubbed the "alpha torque," that only manifests itself in liquid conductors like air, water and molten metals. The results show that the new method of propulsion can easily out-perform both chemical explosives and electromagnetic rail guns." "The crucial issue is how electric arcs generate these forces in fluids. We have given up on thermodynamic explanations. Ruling out gravitational and nuclear forces, there really remains no choice but to seek an electrodynamic explanation," "Graneau calculates that a 2-million-amp arc explosion in a 350-meter barrel would accelerate a 20-kg projectile to 13 km per second." "Graneau has had to resurrect an older formulation of electromagnetic theory in order to explain the arc explosions. The theory was originated by the French physicist Andre-Marie Ampere at the beginning of the 19th century and was further elaborated by A. F. Neuman in Germany." In the modern formulation, the Lorentz formula governs the movement of electrons in electromagnetic fields. "Applying the Lorentz formula to the water arc experiments leads to an entirely different prediction of the propagated forces. A much smaller force acting to contain the plasma was predicted, and this helped derail applications of arc forces." -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 12:58:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA07090; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:56:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:56:39 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:56:22 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701112056.VAA02985@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"M_8jP3.0.Zk1.6w_ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1271 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Is anyone perchance interested in time travel, theories, the nature of >time, etc.? > >John I am - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 12:58:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA07148; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:56:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:56:51 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:56:30 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701112056.VAA02989@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Searl Disks Resent-Message-ID: <"JG5tl2.0.Tl1.Fw_ro"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1272 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John A. Tooker wrote: >Quite possibly. I recall reading in "Antigravity and the World Grid" ed. >by D. Hatcher Childress, that John Searl had some effects that may have >been time related, with his disks. I believe that one or two of his disks >rose up in to the air, and literally disappeared during some experiments. >Possibly, beings from the future may have learned to control this effect, >and achieve time travel. >John I did not hear of time effects of Searl's disks, but they are an interesting magnetic configuration: Cilyndrical magnets (rollers) turning around their own axis and 'rolling' around a circular path formed by the inside of a large ring magnet. The field they created was an immense vortex of magnetic field (vortex of ether?) made up of several individual vortices created by the single rollers. This was said to have antigravity effects, and if controlled to not exceed certain speeds of rotation, electrical energy could be taken off the outside of the large ring magnet. Does that make any sense? - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 13:05:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA08777; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:03:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:03:54 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:03:43 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Electrogravity (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Qufc63.0.192.t00so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1273 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:10:02 -0500 From: RANDY CORN To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Electrogravity (correction) Hello, I'm searching for some papers that Albert Einstein published around 1923, describing his new theory linking gravity and electricity. Please see my Einstein page at http://www.tbnet.net/html/einchal.htm. If you know where these papers might be could you please let me know. Thank You, Randy Corn Tampa Bay Internet Services. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 13:28:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA15057; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:27:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:27:04 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:28:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199701112128.WAA15424@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Beyond Newman to DNMEC Cc: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"UDECj2.0.tg3.cM0so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1274 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> Yes, but the iron plate is still pulled into the gap. >> Maybe not at the best acceleration, but still pulled in. >>=20 >> Now it is time to compare these forces versus the forces, >> when the coil is switch off and the iron plate wants >> to leave the gap. How strong is the force from the single PM >> at the left side to hold back the iron plate from moving out of the gap ? >>=20 >> Regards, Stefan. > >Hi Stephan, > >You are right. Now is the time. > >Today we stand on the brink of tomorrow. > >I have addressed this post to you to recognize your efforts over >the years in being a true believer in over unity while not loosing >an open mind that sometimes we are mistaken in our assumptions. Not >wrong, just mistaken or not understanding all the facts and coming >to incorrect assumptions and conclusions. > >It is a funny thing about us humans, that we seem to sense when >something can be done, maybe we can sense the flow of future time, >and then get very frustrated in trying to find the path that we >KNOW is there. > >Anyway to the business of Epitxay's idea. > >We have so far looked at the approach phase as flux is decreasing >in the right hand ferrite. But look further and see that flux >starts to increase in that right hand ferrite. At some point, the >flux builds up to be equal to the flux that was present when the >coil was shorted. At that point, the coil current will REVERSE and >form an opposing North pole as the coil attempts to hold the >ferrite's flux constant. This North pole will now offer a reduced >path for the magnets flux and force the magnets flux out to meet >the approaching ferrite block. (See my NN, NS Gifs) > >Now it gets very interesting and we move into new ground. > >The flux forced out finds a good flux path in the approaching >ferrite and flows through it. This increasing flux density >between the moving ferrite and the magnet now INCREASES the >ferrite's attraction into the gap and the ferrite is accelerated. >As the ferrite moves deeper into the gap more and more REVERSE >coil current flows to attempt to block the increasing flux density >being caused by the approaching ferrite and more and more of the >magnets flux is directed into the approaching ferrite. Its moving >energy is growing quickly. It is also causing MASSIVE current to flow >in the coil as the coil attempts to hold the ferrite's flux at the >lower level encountered then the coil was first shorted. > >So what do we have so far? > >As the ferrite approached the gap, initially its acceleration >was retarded by the coil current as we all expected. But now >what's happening is not expected. The ferrite is being attracted >into the gap by very strong flux densities over short distances. >These densities continue to build, the distances to get shorter >and LARGE reverse coil currents to flow. Starting to sound like >another device yet? > >When the moving ferrite is finally centered in the gap and starts >to move out, flux densities start to fall. NOW we open the coil. >Many things happen very quickly. The coil's field caused by the coil's >current falls quickly (Sub micro second stuff), sometime later when >the ferrite's domains realize that the coil's field is gone, they to >unalign their domains and a second field falls (Much slower than the >coil current field) (Could be several micro seconds but still fast). >Most folks don't realize this two field fall, but its real. >The right hand ferrite's domains then start aligning with the >magnets flux. This also happens to the moving ferrite's domains. >As the ferrite moves out of the gap it will experience=20 >ferromagnetic induced back drag, (Not Letz, not eddy currents) >but not much as we have returned to the magnets flux being divided >between the two ferrites. > Dear Greg, thanks a lot for all the explanations, but I think we are having 2 different ideas, how to build this thing.... I just did understand, that at the right side we don=B4t have at all any ferrite inside the coil, but just an aircoil ! So I guess, the simulation you have done is only valid for your idea to introduce an coil wound on ferrite, but I bet, that was not the idea by Epitaxy ?? Can you please do the approching simulation again just using the approaching moving ferrite plate and the PM at he left side, but without any ferrite at the right side ? I guess, then things look much better. If you use just an aircoil at the right side the field will be different inside the gap and the coil can just be shorted only at this moment when this strong REVERSE flow will occur. The other time it can be opened, so it will not affect any movement of the ferrite plate. Could you also do the simulation with adding the aircoil shorted at the right side ? Is the QuickField software able to do that ? Or can it just calculate with ferrites only and not with shorted aircoils ? >Don't get hung up with the falling field, they is nothing conductive >around for eddy currents to be induced in. Putting a load on the >coil is not a good idea as it will only retard the fall of the >coil's field and increase back drag. It already done its work, let it >die in peace. There is a small engineering problem as how to handle >the very large voltages induced into the coil by this rapid field >decrease. Perhaps something like a non linear load that only conducts >at high voltages would be a good idea. Just be sure the current flow >doesn't cause too much back drag. Just one of several engineering >problems to be ironed out. I have an idea, what about a neon tube? Yes, that was what I meant, fluorescent neon tubes do it ! > >So what do we have? > >A system which delivers increasing moving ferrite energy AND very >large reverse coil currents. > >Now if you are still with me, you may be starting to see where I am >going. The above is real, I can simulate it and Epitxay turntable >tests verify it. > >Lets alter a few items. =20 > >If we want to reduce the back drag caused >by ferromagnetic attraction, lets get rid of the right hand ferrite >and use an air coil with many....many turns. If we put enough turns >on, the effect on the approach phase will be the same, but on the >exit phase there will not be ANY ferromagnetic drag back and the >field will collapse very quick. =20 I thought all the time only about this configuration ! Never thought about using ferrite inside the coil ! Can you simulate it with the aircore coil ? >Know of any device >which has stated that the device needs a LARGE air coil, using >ferrites in the coil causes the device not to work so well and >suffers problems with massive voltage spikes as the coil collapses?=20 > >We should now move away from the coil being shorted all the time and >look at other arrangements. The ideal method might be to power the >coil from a DC source during the very early phase just long enough >to overcome friction and the small reduction in attraction as the >flux initially falls,=20 Just let the aircoil be open until then ! So there will be no friction ! >then short the coil as the moving ferrite >goes through the flux falling phase to the flux increasing phase, then >connect the coil again to the DC source so it can receive the very >large REVERSE current flow as the reverse coil current attempts to >hold the coil flux constant and finally open the coil so as to >reduce any back drag as the ferrite moves out of the gap. Would >need a complicated commutator. =20 Why at all use DC ??? Just only short and open the aircoil via an incandescent bulb=20 as the load and have in parrallel to the coil a neon tube for the HV spikes, that is enough ! >But maybe if we look at the overall >engineering, we would find that the device would still work OK if we >just powered the coil from a DC source. Only then need a simple >commutator which just opens and closes the connection from the coil >to a DC source. =20 Don=B4t make it too complicated for the first try ! Suspect that if batteries were used to power the >device, they might even be recharged by the reverse current flow. >Again don't get hung up on the large voltage spikes as the coil >opens, they need to be there as the coil's field needs to fall >quickly to reduce back drag. Other than cause a problem they do not >enter into the energy flow discussion. Right, this is no problem with using the neon tube, which only ignites at High Voltage and then shorts and discharges the coil very effective ! > >One problem is that if we now attempt to power this device from its >own reverse power output via a generator connected to a rotary >moving ferrite system, we would find the generator now acting like >a brake as the reverse current flow would turn the generator into >a motor and the motor would counter the torque increase gained. Uff, I quite don=B4t understand that now... > >Does this sound familiar? > >Today I think we own Mr. Joseph Newman an apology. I have just shown >his motor does work. It does produce over unity operation and I believe >I have explained all the funny side effects we have all read about. Well, Mr. Newman=B4s motor might show simular HV spikes and recharge current spikes, but his setup is totally different ! There is no iron or ferrite shield in his designs ! He just uses a rotating PM and a stationary coil. I don=B4t quite get your point of view here. Please explain in more detail... >Mr. Joseph Newman, you were right. Your motor does work. But why did >you and Evan cloud the issue with talk about things in left field. What do you mean by "left field" ?? > >Why have I had to reinvent the wheel today? Why don't I own my >own Newman based power source? Good question ! :) > >There is no need to invent new physics. =20 > >Its all right here. The only problem >is that the electrical output is not easily gotten at. Very much >earlier I did suggest a way to get electrical energy from a Newman >motor. Its on Stephan's web page. > >It is not my intention to restart the Newman flame war. I will, of >course enter into sane, rational discussion about the above either >by private or group email. I only ask that you first look at my >20 simulation pics, read my earlier posts, open your minds and think >through what I have said. Everything I have said is real. There >may not be equations which mirror what's happening. Don't fall into >the trap of trying to redefine my words to fit into your existing >understanding of physics. Open your minds, look at the pics, read >my words and think. Then lets talk. Okay, can you try to simulate again the pics without the ferrite at the left side ?? I still have questions, how much the moving ferrite plate is hold back by the single PM on the left side, when it wants to leave the gap ! Could that force be stronger somehow, than the total of forces pulling it in ?? > >This is only 1 (and not a very good one) of several ways to what I call > >Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. (DNMEC) (My copyright) > >I know that I have placed my words and ideas into the public domain. >May it foster your thinking out of the square. > >I would be pleased to enter into private discussions with any >interested parties about the commercialization of my other DNMEC ideas. > >Live long and prosper. Thanks for sharing all your ideas ! DNMEC sounds good ! :) Maybe you will once running a big company with that name and be famous and rich ! :) The first step is being done today ! :) Keep on ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 14:56:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA32718; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:54:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:54:29 -0800 Message-ID: <32D8191F.984@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:20:07 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: harti@bbtt.de, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Beyond Newman to DNMEC References: <199701112128.WAA15424@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"M29QA.0.7_7.Ye1so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1275 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephan, Look at the bigger picture. At their heart Epitxay's idea, Adam's idea, mine and Newman's all have the basis of what I have described at their heart. There are many ways to skin a cat, but the result is still the same. The effect I described (Lets call it the Watson Effect) is at the heart of ALL these devices. I can describe many systems using magnets, ferrites or what have you and get the same result. Re-read my words. Think outside of the square and you will learn. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 14:59:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA00613; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:58:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:58:04 -0800 From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity (fwd) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:30:13 -0500 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Lines: 14 Resent-Message-ID: <"SMr231.0.O9.rh1so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1276 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I'm searching for some papers that Albert Einstein published around 1923, >describing his new theory linking gravity and electricity. Please see my >Einstein page at http://www.tbnet.net/html/einchal.htm. > >If you know where these papers might be could you please let me know. You can get them from Rex Research. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 15:27:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA06688; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:26:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:26:16 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:20:05 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970111084916_1623052479@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mcA2G3.0.Pe1.M62so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1277 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>I believe that the sum total of the paper, and the results of the > experiments was that time *is* a force, possibly a standing wave, or a > scalar wave that travels 700 kilometers per second, plus or minus 50 km.>>> > > Einstein's Relativity states that it goes the speed of light. > > Actually, Nikolai Kozyrev, and his team, used a gyroscope from a military transport craft, and did a number of experiments with it to determine this. If you send me your snail mail address privately, I'd be happy to send you a copy of the paper. I'd send it as an attachment to this e-mail, but, since I use an internet account that uses a text only interface, I can't add it as an attachment. Hopefully, soon, (within 2-3 months) I should be able to have it available by ftp on a website I am setting up, as well. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 15:40:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA08522; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:38:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:38:21 -0800 Message-ID: <32D82327.3DAF@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:02:55 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Beyond Newman to DNMEC References: <199701112128.WAA15424@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"S4iFq1.0._42.hH2so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1278 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > I just did understand, that at the right side we don´t have at all > any ferrite inside the coil, but just an aircoil ! > > So I guess, the simulation you have done is only valid for > your idea to introduce an coil wound on ferrite, but I bet, > that was not the idea by Epitaxy ?? > Ferrite on the right or not there will not be much difference, only the air coil will not have any back drag as a ferrite core would. > Can you please do the approching simulation again just > using the approaching moving ferrite plate and the PM at he left side, > but without any ferrite at the right side ? > > I guess, then things look much better. If you use > just an aircoil at the right side the field will be different > inside the gap and the coil can just be shorted only at > this moment when this strong REVERSE flow will occur. > The other time it can be opened, so it will not affect any > movement of the ferrite plate. > Thinking about it you are right. Coil should be shorted when the flux is at its min. I however also think about other design which do not need the magnet. Many ways possible once you understand the basics. > Could you also do the simulation with adding the aircoil > shorted at the right side ? Is the QuickField software > able to do that ? Or can it just calculate > with ferrites only and not with shorted aircoils ? > Can do either way. Don't get hung up on too many details. Think about what is happen and why. > >Don't get hung up with the falling field, they is nothing conductive > >around for eddy currents to be induced in. Putting a load on the > >coil is not a good idea as it will only retard the fall of the > >coil's field and increase back drag. It already done its work, let it > >die in peace. There is a small engineering problem as how to handle > >the very large voltages induced into the coil by this rapid field > >decrease. Perhaps something like a non linear load that only conducts > >at high voltages would be a good idea. Just be sure the current flow > >doesn't cause too much back drag. Just one of several engineering > >problems to be ironed out. I have an idea, what about a neon tube? > > Yes, that was what I meant, fluorescent neon tubes do it ! > As used my Newman! > > > >So what do we have? > > > >A system which delivers increasing moving ferrite energy AND very > >large reverse coil currents. > > > >Now if you are still with me, you may be starting to see where I am > >going. The above is real, I can simulate it and Epitxay turntable > >tests verify it. > > > >Lets alter a few items. > > > >If we want to reduce the back drag caused > >by ferromagnetic attraction, lets get rid of the right hand ferrite > >and use an air coil with many....many turns. If we put enough turns > >on, the effect on the approach phase will be the same, but on the > >exit phase there will not be ANY ferromagnetic drag back and the > >field will collapse very quick. > > I thought all the time only about this configuration ! > Never thought about using ferrite inside the coil ! > > Can you simulate it with the aircore coil ? > > >Know of any device > >which has stated that the device needs a LARGE air coil, using > >ferrites in the coil causes the device not to work so well and > >suffers problems with massive voltage spikes as the coil collapses? > > > >We should now move away from the coil being shorted all the time and > >look at other arrangements. The ideal method might be to power the > >coil from a DC source during the very early phase just long enough > >to overcome friction and the small reduction in attraction as the > >flux initially falls, > > Just let the aircoil be open until then ! So there will be no friction ! > > >then short the coil as the moving ferrite > >goes through the flux falling phase to the flux increasing phase, then > >connect the coil again to the DC source so it can receive the very > >large REVERSE current flow as the reverse coil current attempts to > >hold the coil flux constant and finally open the coil so as to > >reduce any back drag as the ferrite moves out of the gap. Would > >need a complicated commutator. > > Why at all use DC ??? > Just only short and open the aircoil via an incandescent bulb > as the load and have in parrallel > to the coil a neon tube for the HV spikes, that is enough ! > > >But maybe if we look at the overall > >engineering, we would find that the device would still work OK if we > >just powered the coil from a DC source. Only then need a simple > >commutator which just opens and closes the connection from the coil > >to a DC source. > > Don´t make it too complicated for the first try ! > > Suspect that if batteries were used to power the > >device, they might even be recharged by the reverse current flow. > >Again don't get hung up on the large voltage spikes as the coil > >opens, they need to be there as the coil's field needs to fall > >quickly to reduce back drag. Other than cause a problem they do not > >enter into the energy flow discussion. > > Right, this is no problem with using the neon tube, which > only ignites at High Voltage and then shorts and discharges > the coil very effective ! The coil's flux will die as soon as the current stops flowing, it needs NO help. Putting a load on the coil will reduce the back emf at the expense of field collapse time. If you can handle the voltages, just open the coil. Zip...no field. > > > > >One problem is that if we now attempt to power this device from its > >own reverse power output via a generator connected to a rotary > >moving ferrite system, we would find the generator now acting like > >a brake as the reverse current flow would turn the generator into > >a motor and the motor would counter the torque increase gained. > If you attempt to close the loop on this system using a generator, the reverse current flow will drive current back into the generator turning in into a motor and a motor which will turn against the rotary torque produced by the Watson Effect motor. Don't you see thats why Newman can't close the loop. The large reverse current flow will as Evan has said, "Work against the prime motor" (sorry Evan if I got the words wrong but I remember you saying something like this). > Uff, I quite don´t understand that now... > > > > >Does this sound familiar? > > > >Today I think we own Mr. Joseph Newman an apology. I have just shown > >his motor does work. It does produce over unity operation and I believe > >I have explained all the funny side effects we have all read about. > > Well, Mr. Newman´s motor might show simular HV spikes and > recharge current spikes, but his setup is totally different ! Wrong. Think about it. The same basic Watson Effect is at work. > There is no iron or ferrite shield in his designs ! > He just uses a rotating PM and a stationary coil. > I don´t quite get your point of view here. > Please explain in more detail... > > >Mr. Joseph Newman, you were right. Your motor does work. But why did > >you and Evan cloud the issue with talk about things in left field. > > What do you mean by "left field" ?? > Gyrotrons and the like. I suspect Newman knows what I know but was worried about not having pattent protection. Interestion his small unit only has a simple commutator, like my above suggestions. > > > >Why have I had to reinvent the wheel today? Why don't I own my > >own Newman based power source? > > Good question ! :) > > > > >There is no need to invent new physics. > > > >Its all right here. The only problem > >is that the electrical output is not easily gotten at. Very much > >earlier I did suggest a way to get electrical energy from a Newman > >motor. Its on Stephan's web page. > > > >It is not my intention to restart the Newman flame war. I will, of > >course enter into sane, rational discussion about the above either > >by private or group email. I only ask that you first look at my > >20 simulation pics, read my earlier posts, open your minds and think > >through what I have said. Everything I have said is real. There > >may not be equations which mirror what's happening. Don't fall into > >the trap of trying to redefine my words to fit into your existing > >understanding of physics. Open your minds, look at the pics, read > >my words and think. Then lets talk. > > Okay, can you try to simulate again the pics without the ferrite > at the left side ?? > Sure. will do. > I still have questions, how much the moving ferrite plate is hold back by > the single > PM on the left side, when it wants to leave the gap ! > Could that force be stronger somehow, than the total of forces pulling > it in ?? > No way, I estimate a differential of 5 or 7 to one. Better still with air coil. > > > >This is only 1 (and not a very good one) of several ways to what I call > > > >Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. (DNMEC) (My copyright) > > > >I know that I have placed my words and ideas into the public domain. > >May it foster your thinking out of the square. > > > >I would be pleased to enter into private discussions with any > >interested parties about the commercialization of my other DNMEC ideas. > > > >Live long and prosper. > > Thanks for sharing all your ideas ! DNMEC sounds good ! :) > Maybe you will once running a big company with that name and > be famous and rich ! :) > The first step is being done today ! :) > Keep on ! :) > > Regards, Stefan. > Hi Stephan, Just keep thinking. Think outside of the square. Think. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 15:55:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA12269; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:54:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:54:13 -0800 Message-ID: <32D898AB.61EF@netcomuk.co.uk> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:54:19 -0800 From: Rob King X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-NC260 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: AE@SJSUVM1.SJSU.EDU CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Free Energy - Part 9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vA11q.0.c_2.ZW2so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1279 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Date: 11th Jan, 1997 Time 22:43 GMT Dear All, PART 9. Sorry I have not mailed you all for a long time. Few Points: 1. Stanley Meyer looks determined to prove his water splitting device DOES work by building a hydrogen powered boat, despite the fact that he failed to do so in a court of law. I can-not help thinking he should have stuck with doing Hannibal in the A-Team (George Peppard ?). 2. I have built JOSEPH TATES ANTENNA, it worked but only produced a very small amount of power, around 5 uW. I had a very small antenna and this may have been my downfall. I would argue that if I were to carry out the same experiment on the dark side of the moon the power produced would be zero. I think that the energy produced is from local radio transmitters of all types. 3. I must ring Methernita again to see how they are progressing with their machine, if you want to ring them you need to speak to Victor Bosshard (their PR man), tel. 0041-31-7711165, fax 0041-31-7711165. Another company in Switzerland that (are rumored) manufactured these electrostatic OU devices is VENE, PO BOX 1451, CH-3601, THUN, SWITZERLAND, but these people want pots of money for a single device. 4. Looks like the slotted magnetic shield version of Robert Adams motor seems to be the topic of discussion at the moment. 5. The progress with John Searl’s SEG is at a pause at the time being, they require some 1500 GBP to get an engineering firm to manufacture the 35 cm ALNICO ring. They have financial backers ready to put money in as soon as they can demonstrate the SEG motor running but they need money up front to build the prototype. Their only hope is that someone will take the plunge and fund them for a bare essential prototype. Adams Motor. I have not done any more work on the Adams motor since my last posting a few months ago. I would like to have a go at using more powerful magnets (from old hard disks as someone suggested). With 4 relay coils and 6 neodymium/alnico magnets. But, like I keep saying, I need some super-conductor wire, this may be the answer, or I use normal wire but bathed in liquid nitrogen to get the resistance down. This in turn may strip the enamel coating from the wire. :-( Using a ferrite core on the coils will give a poor magnetic field, reduced by a factor of 50%, but it will also have a low magnetic residue. I was thinking of pulsing the coil during ON part of the duty cycle so that there are many back EMF’s instead on just the one during the ON cycle. I see that Jean-Louis Naudin has been doing some work on the same machine as myself during August 1996, well done, I must borrow a scope so that I can get some pictures of the input/output of the coils. I am interested to know how he calculates the mechanical power of his motor? Regards Rob King Email address: ROBK@netcomuk.co.uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 16:02:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA13525; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:00:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:00:56 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:55:40 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970111155324_71232.360_GHL95-2@CompuServe.COM> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"yvKS93.0.EJ3.sc2so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1280 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 11 Jan 1997, Chris Malcheski wrote: > > Hi John, > > To state the obvious, time travel has to be achievable via some kind of energy > field, and indications are that it certainly doesn't need to be very high > powered - the human brain is able to do it with no problem (too bad we can't > feasibly control when or how this happens.) > > Which leaves: what kinds of energy fields are sufficiently unexplored that the > answer could lie there? > > -- Chris > > Hi Chris! :) I agree tottally! I arrived at my model after going through quite a bit of research. I've researched the Kozyrev article, as well as Frank Tipler's "Rotating Cylinders" concept, where he postulates the use of cylinders made of super dense material, to create a rotating gravity field. Since, obviously, one can't go to ones local Radio Shack and purchase such material, I decided to find another method. My research in to the so called "Philadelphia Experiment" led me to an article by Rick Anderson on the Philly Experiment and Magnetic Resonance. This helped me with my theory that rotating magnetic fields *may* be the way to go. Since the Kozyrev article also stated that the speed was 700 kms plus or minus 50 km in a *levorotational* or spinning counterclockwise universe, (ours), I theorised that spinning the field counterclockwise would possibly spped up time within the field. Spinning the field clockwise, would theoretically speed up time within the field. I also have come across the books in the "Montauk Series" by Peter Moon and Preston Nichols, from Sky Books. They go in to alleged projects that are claimed to be successors to the Philly exp., that took place in the now allegedly closed down Montauk AFS, on Long Island, NY. The piece of info I gleaned from those books is a device called the delta T antenna. It is an octahedronal antenna, with 3 coils around the 3 axes. My reasons for choosing this as the antenna are fairly clear. The pyramidal shapes, if built to the specs of the great pyramid at Gizeh, show some unusual effects, commonly known as "pyramid power". My hypothesis, which I plan on attempting to either prove or disprove, is that the antenna coils in this shape, at these specs, *may* be able to affect time. As well, as my description of my prototype will explain, at least two of the coils are necessary, for the 90 degree phase shifter to cause the magnetic fields to rotate. My prototype design is as follows; ************* * Sinewave * * Generator * ************* * * * ************ * Preamp * ************ * ************** * * ************* * * 90 Deg. Ph* * *Shifter * * ************* * * * * * * * ************* *********** *Lin. Amp. * *Lin. Amp.* ************* *********** * * * * * * To X axis To Y axis of antenna of antenna The sine wave generator has a range between 1 and aprox 100,000 hz. The phase shifter is frequency independant. The linear amplifiers can be anywhere from 1000 to 100000 watt broadband output. As I mentioned in a previous post, anyone who would like the paper by Nikolai Kozyrev on the study of time, please send me a 3.5 inch diskette formatted for IBM's, and enough International Reply Coupons, to John Tooker, #2-7400 Macleod. Tr. S. Ste. #1, Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2H-0L9, and I will be very happy to send you a copy of Dr. Kozyrevs paper, which explains the experiments that led to his conclusions. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 16:10:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA15002; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:08:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:08:50 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:02:11 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970111135424_1991667312@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Oj1s.0.Ig3.Fk2so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1281 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > <<< energy > field, and indications are that it certainly doesn't need to be very high > powered - the human brain is able to do it with no problem (too bad we can't > feasibly control when or how this happens.)>>>> > > Um...how is the brain capable of time travel? Have I missed something? > -Adam Grossman > > Have you ever dreamed? John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 16:18:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA16927; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:16:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:16:50 -0800 Date: 11 Jan 97 19:15:02 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Message-ID: <970112001502_71232.360_GHL94-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"3_8sK2.0.J84.mr2so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1282 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Adam, >> Um...how is the brain capable of time travel? Have I missed something? << It's a matter of whether or not you believe the plethora of psychic phenomena, i.e. precognition, remote viewing, astral projection, etc. The standard temporal flow is violated in all cases if this really occurs. -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 16:22:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA17593; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:21:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:21:56 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:16:17 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <199701112056.VAA02985@korovev.stm.it> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Y5CBY1.0.oI4.Yw2so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1283 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Josef Hasslberger wrote: > > >Is anyone perchance interested in time travel, theories, the nature of > >time, etc.? > > > >John > > I am > > - Josef > > Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY > > when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical > views on physics, economy and new energy at > http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger > > > Excellent! :) Please check out my previous posts to others, and I welcome anyone who's willing to join the debate. Take care. :) John P.S. I am attempting to put together a website on this subject. I'll keep everyone apprised. :) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 16:23:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA17641; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:22:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:22:10 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:18:00 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Searl Disks In-Reply-To: <199701112056.VAA02989@korovev.stm.it> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"C1sDc3.0.PJ4.jw2so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1284 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Josef Hasslberger wrote: > > John A. Tooker wrote: > > >Quite possibly. I recall reading in "Antigravity and the World Grid" ed. > >by D. Hatcher Childress, that John Searl had some effects that may have > >been time related, with his disks. I believe that one or two of his disks > >rose up in to the air, and literally disappeared during some experiments. > >Possibly, beings from the future may have learned to control this effect, > >and achieve time travel. > >John > > I did not hear of time effects of Searl's disks, but they are an > interesting magnetic configuration: Cilyndrical magnets (rollers) turning > around their own axis and 'rolling' around a circular path formed by the > inside of a large ring magnet. > > The field they created was an immense vortex of magnetic field (vortex of > ether?) made up of several individual vortices created by the single > rollers. > > This was said to have antigravity effects, and if controlled to not exceed > certain speeds of rotation, electrical energy could be taken off the > outside of the large ring magnet. Does that make any sense? > > - Josef > > Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY > > when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical > views on physics, economy and new energy at > http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger > > > It makes a lot of sense. I am using a different setup, but it appears to do similar effects. Check out a previous post for my basic description of the device. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 16:27:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA18619; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:26:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:26:10 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:21:17 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrogravity (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2jSmu2.0.fY4.V-2so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1285 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! I believe that I can help some, if you don't mind them in the original German. I have a copy of Einsteins Unified Field Theory. I'll be happy to share it with anyone willing to cover photocopying charges. Take care. :) John On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, William Beaty wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:10:02 -0500 > From: RANDY CORN > To: billb@eskimo.com > Subject: Electrogravity (correction) > > Hello, > > I'm searching for some papers that Albert Einstein published around 1923, > describing his new theory linking gravity and electricity. Please see my > Einstein page at http://www.tbnet.net/html/einchal.htm. > > If you know where these papers might be could you please let me know. > > Thank You, > > Randy Corn > Tampa Bay Internet Services. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 16:48:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA24777; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:47:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 16:47:16 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:48:24 -0600 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Yes, Your DNMEC & Joe's Gyrons May be One & The Same Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"0l4Q13.0.c26.EI3so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1286 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Greg, Just to let you know that I've been reading your posts with interest in between having to deal with an illness. At the moment I'm playing catch up --- with a touch of the flu that's been going around this season, my email has backed up in a _very_ serious way! I guess you may have experienced email overload from time to time! :-) This is just a quick note to let you know that I'll try to follow up with a more detailed response.... Best regards, Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 17:13:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA29508; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:09:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:09:54 -0800 Message-ID: <32D838C7.7915@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:35:11 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: harti@bbtt.de, vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Beyond Newman to DNMEC References: <199701112128.WAA15424@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4O5mJ1.0.xC7.Xd3so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1287 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Can you please do the approching simulation again just > using the approaching moving ferrite plate and the PM at he left side, > but without any ferrite at the right side ? > Done. Tried several ferrite positions. Similiar effect. As we say in Aust. "Different Dog, Same Leg Action". Have also simulated effect of shorted coil holding flux. As I predicted during rising flux an opposing pole is formed and forces flux into the ferrite. This matches with Epitxay's turntable test. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 17:33:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA00918; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:32:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:32:14 -0800 Message-ID: <32D7F8BA.A18@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:31:54 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory References: <970111155324_71232.360_GHL95-2@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YNjR41.0.8E.Qy3so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1288 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Chris Malcheski wrote: > > Hi John, > > To state the obvious, time travel has to be achievable via some kind of energy > field, and indications are that it certainly doesn't need to be very high > powered - the human brain is able to do it with no problem (too bad we can't > feasibly control when or how this happens.) > > Which leaves: what kinds of energy fields are sufficiently unexplored that the > answer could lie there? > > -- Chris Possibly scalars fill both roles. Robert O. Beck documents the effect of very small scalar signals on the processes of biology, and neural entrianment as well. Neural entrainment is also associated with unusual states of mind connected to remote viewing and other similar phenomena. Mr. Frolov and others have also commented on the temproal implications of time revered waves, which of course Bearden ties into scalars. So there may be a thread of truth that connects these concepts. How much exploration has been done in these areas is subject to debate however. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 18:25:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA10739; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:23:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:23:40 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:55:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701120155.RAA00277@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Free Energy - Part 9 Resent-Message-ID: <"kXNMm2.0.id2.gi4so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1289 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robb: GREAT POST; Question? Did you use the loading coil on the tate antenna that you built, the information I have been shown, shows almost four hundred turns on a three inch piece of pvc. > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 18:29:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA11173; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:28:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:28:00 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:27:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970111212718_979155463@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"7atP72.0.Uk2.km4so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1290 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>Actually, Nikolai Kozyrev, and his team, used a gyroscope from a military transport craft, and did a number of experiments with it to determine this.>>>> How could anyone use a gyroscope to find the SPEED of time? I don't quite get this. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 18:32:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA11590; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:30:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:30:45 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:30:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970111213005_746603023@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"mXho82.0.-q2.Jp4so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1291 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>Since the Kozyrev article also stated that the speed was 700 kms plus or minus 50 km in a *levorotational* or spinning counterclockwise universe, (ours)>>>> Um...sorry. Our universe is not rotating. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 18:33:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA11780; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:31:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 18:31:45 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 21:31:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970111213104_1757688466@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"ERs3U.0.vt2.Dq4so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1292 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>Have you ever dreamed?>>>> Yes, I do dream. How is this time travel? Does that mean that if I imagine the past I am actually there? Not at all! -Adam GRossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 19:44:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA02160; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:42:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:42:44 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:36:34 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970111212718_979155463@emout07.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_iZwa2.0.fX.ps5so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1293 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Actually, it was due to interference induced vibration. They aparrently eliminated all known external sources that would cause vibration in the gyro. They deduced, somehow, that the vibration that was left was time acting on the gyro somehow. Would you like me to send you a copy of the paper? It's quite long, and I'd prefer not to fill up anyone's e-mail box with that much stuff. And, my account's text only, otherwise I'd be happy to ftp it to you. John On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>>Actually, Nikolai Kozyrev, and his team, used a gyroscope from a military > transport craft, and did a number of experiments with it to determine > this.>>>> > > How could anyone use a gyroscope to find the SPEED of time? I don't quite get > this. > -Adam Grossman > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 19:44:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA02193; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:42:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:42:51 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:37:30 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970111213005_746603023@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"L3D1J3.0.7Y.vs5so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1294 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>>Since the Kozyrev article also stated that the speed was 700 kms plus or > minus 50 km in a *levorotational* or spinning counterclockwise universe, > (ours)>>>> > > Um...sorry. Our universe is not rotating. > -Adam Grossman > > Again, perhaps reading the paper would explain precisely what they mean. I was quoting directly from the paper. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 19:48:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA03030; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:46:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:46:57 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:40:19 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970111213104_1757688466@emout03.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"VarfK3.0.El.lw5so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1295 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>>Have you ever dreamed?>>>> > > Yes, I do dream. How is this time travel? Does that mean that if I imagine > the past I am actually there? Not at all! > -Adam GRossman > > There are *some* who suggest that dreaming is a *form* of time travel. And, since we don't know everything about how the brain works, I'm not about to argue either side of that argument 'till enough data is available. Perhaps I should have expressed myself better. It is my opinion that, possibly, dreaming or some form of dreaming, *may* be time travel. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 20:28:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA10554; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:27:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:27:20 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:26:38 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701120426.WAA24475@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"qINa11.0.oa2.cW6so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1296 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > ><<<energy >field, and indications are that it certainly doesn't need to be very high >powered - the human brain is able to do it with no problem (too bad we can't >feasibly control when or how this happens.)>>>> > >Um...how is the brain capable of time travel? Have I missed something? >-Adam Grossman > > Well, the obvious is that we can recall what happened yesterday ... last month ... 20 years ago ... some of us as well as if it were happening now! Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 20:50:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA16960; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:49:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:49:06 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:48:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701120448.WAA26606@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"q4GkF1.0.v84.0r6so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1297 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>>>>Actually, Nikolai Kozyrev, and his team, used a gyroscope from a military >transport craft, and did a number of experiments with it to determine >this.>>>> > >How could anyone use a gyroscope to find the SPEED of time? I don't quite get >this. >-Adam Grossman > > I sent a posting to this group a while back which I think I entitled "Inquiring minds want to know..." I noted an interesting (to me anyway) concept of the origin of time. Was it over everyone's heads or was it too boring? :-) Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 20:55:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA17538; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:53:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:53:34 -0800 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 22:52:46 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701120452.WAA27207@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Recent activity Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"zqG8D1.0.rH4.Bv6so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1298 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'd just like to say it's nice to see so much activity on this mailing list after a dry spell. Now, whatever happened to the Neotech mailing list? I've only seen a couple postings from it in the last few months. Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 20:59:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA18263; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:58:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:58:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32D86CCF.2509@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:17:11 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ronald de Mol CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Beyond Newman to DNMEC References: <199701111644.RAA14881@mail.bbtt.com> <32D7E802.1437@mail.enternet.com.au> <32D836A8.11A8@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mMaLz1.0.GT4.Sz6so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1299 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ronald de Mol wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: (from several postings) > > > Hi Ronald, > > > > To the best of my knowledge you should think of a magnetic > > field like hydraulic fluid in a hydraulic system. Doesn't > > create energy, just moves it from place to place. > > > > > > > Today I think we own Mr. Joseph Newman an apology. I have just shown > > his motor does work. It does produce over unity operation and I believe > > I have explained all the funny side effects we have all read about. > > > > > > This is only 1 (and not a very good one) of several ways to what I call > --- (p.s: But somebody has made the first one, thats never easy.) > ---RdM. > > > > Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. (DNMEC) (My copyright) > > > > -- > > Best Regards, > > Greg Watson, > > Greg Watson Consulting, > > Adelaide, South Australia, > > gwatson@enternet.com.au > > Hi Greg, me again... > > So at last (maybe) a prove of magnetic(field) energy to electric energy > ? > > I admire you dare to speak in this way over the Newman machine here. > Normal if somebody even says 'evan soule' or 'joseph (joe) Newman' a > war is the result... > > Remember that it is not so easy to use the (expected) extra energy of > a newman motor. > > Anyway, If you are right (and i think you are) about your DNMEC ideas, > i wish you the best luck in finding better conversion ways, and > commercialization. Watch out if you want urn a lot of money with this. > You have told a lot already, and if your idea's are true, people will > try to turn it (or you) down. ( no yoke!, believe me. ) > > P.S.: > Thank you for the really great pictures. > (one picture can say more than 1000 woords...) > I have downloaded the program also. > > - > Best regards, > Ronald de Mol. > catware@worldonline.nl Hi Ronald, Thanks for the input. What I have described is only one of many ways to NDMEC. Sometimes you have to give something to get to where you want to go. As you said, it is not too easy to turn ideas into hardware. Been there done that. I feel I am several years ahead in the race. I am not gready, 5% royalty would do just fine. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 23:10:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA07936; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:08:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:08:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32D844FB.5882@triode.net.au> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 17:57:15 -0800 From: Max X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: Where File? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_p4dk1.0.vx1.Jt8so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1300 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can someone please tell me where to find the Barkhowsen Effect file? Max. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 23:10:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA08025; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:08:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:08:49 -0800 Message-ID: <32D98E00.35F7@triode.net.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:21:04 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Re : Re: Magnistor testing References: <970111115113_1141918570@emout15.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CmbmO1.0.Ez1.-t8so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1302 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Maxwell wrote to J Naudin: > 1. Is the ferrite stick isotropic? If so what orientation is the > material: along the length or across the width? Sorry. I meant to say anisotropic, meaning direction of easiest magnetisation. isotropic means: equally magnetisable in all directions. > L2-L3 = Gate flux excitation coils : power 9 volts/AC, in serial mode. > The excitation core is a U-shaped core made with transformer laminations. Can I ask how many turns for L2-L3? Jean, You said that shorting the o/p coil did not increase input power. Do you still feel this is the case? Also I would recommend using an accurate power meter to measure input power to take into account the change in phase angle of the input current due to any back mmf. It is my experience that calculating true power figures, say, using a double beam CRO is just not accurate enough. Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 23:10:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA08069; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:09:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:09:08 -0800 Message-ID: <32D99621.2D72@triode.net.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:55:45 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: Re: Naudin´s G-field results.... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vrwuo1.0.zz1.Iu8so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1303 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Not demagnetising only B/H movement. Exceeding the max A/M rating > on ANY magnet is asking for problems. Sometimes difficult to know > if max A/M was exceeded. Otherwise correct. B/H movement, yes. But this represents a decrease in flux density and, as such, partial demagnetisation. The graph of the second quadrant for a magnetised material is also known as the demagnetisation characteristic. On removal of a demagnetising influence (a back mmf or large gap) the working point does not return along the original curve but instead returns along a recoil line to a new working point at a slightly less flux density on the load line. If a large demagnetising influence is applied, as can happen when the o/p coil is short-circuited, it is possible for the new working point to be well below the original working point. This represents a partial demagnetisation of the material. This is particularly true for ALNICO V etc but not so noticable for modern high-performance neo and ferrite magnets. In short, you can throw a neo magnet into the junk box and get away with it. But ALNICO magnets have to be stored with a keeper and perform best when magnetised in situ. Maxwell. | B . x| . P x | x | x + O | x + . | x + . | x + . | x + .| --+---------------------. H From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 23:10:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA07980; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:08:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:08:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32D9827E.68A1@triode.net.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:31:59 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks, don´t use simulation software ! References: <199701110340.TAA14595@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WONCS.0.by1.nt8so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1301 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: wesly crosiar wrote: > DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME MAKING A PODMOD. RICHARD MCGEE WAS PAID A LARGE SUM OF > MONEY BY A MEMBER OF THIS LIST TO PRODUCE A WORKING MODEL. HE WAS > UNSUCCESFUL, IF HE CAN'T MAKE IT WORK I DOUBT IF ANYONE ELSE CAN.> > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES > WESLEY CROSIAR > PO BOX 268 > SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 The story I heard was his: Richard McKie's electronics, as it stood, would not operate properly. He sought help from another inventor who redesigned it. It still did not produce O/U. Would you care to expand on your story ofr the record and the list members? Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 11 23:10:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA08103; Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:09:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 23:09:24 -0800 Message-ID: <32D99653.5D96@triode.net.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:56:35 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: [Fwd: Re: LC Tanks, don´t use simulation software !] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"OdUZj2.0.S-1.Yu8so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1304 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: <32D99064.1A06@triode.net.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:31:16 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bpaddock@execpc.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks, don´t use simulation software ! References: <199701102058.VAA00326@atom.bbtt.com> <32D83A82.7254@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Bob Paddock for these references. I will look them up at local uni - assuming they are there. Also there are two important papers on RLC networks that I am trying to get hold of: (3) ** "On The Parametric Excitation of Electrical Oscilations" by L. I. Mendalshtam & N. Papaleksi, et al., via: University of California, Lawrence Livermore Radiation Laboratory, Livermore, CA, 94550., UCRL Trans-10231. received March 14, 1967. (4) ** "Report of Recent Research on Nonlinear Oscilations", by L. Mendestam, N. Papalexi, et al.. via: NASA Technical Translation, NASA TT F-12,678, Nov 1969. IIdentified as: Access No. N70-11506, Code 1, Category 23, 60pp. Available from NTIS Dept of Commerce, Springfield, VA, 22161. Does anyone on the list have or know of these papers and is a position to scan them in? Appreciated, Maxwell. Bob Paddock wrote: > 1) "Railgun Research Shoots Holes In Lorentz's Theory": pg 49; > "Railgun Research Shoots Holes In Lorentz Law Of > Electromagnetism": pg 50; by Chappell Brown; > Electronic Engineering Times > Monday, April 6, 1987 pg 49 > > 2) "Anomalies In Electromagnetic Law Spur Debate" pg 58, by > Chappell Brown; Electronic Engineering Times > Monday, September 14, 1987. > > 3) "Electrons And Conduction: Not So Simple After All": pg 21; > "Lorentz No Longer Gives Answers Ampere's Theory Holds Clues > to Current Problem": pg 22, by Chappell Brown, > Electronic Engineering Times, > Monday, December 28, 1987 > > 4) "Debate Over Use Of Energy Weapons Thrives" pg 41, by ? > Van Nostrand; Electronic Engineering Times, > Monday, September 7, 1987 > > 5) "Dusting Off An Old Idea: Shooting Into Orbit": pg 37, > by Chappell Brown; Electronic Engineering Times, > Monday, August 31, 1987 > > 6) Defense Electronics, May 1988 Vol. 20, #5, "SDI: More Spin- > Offs Than Apollo?" Pg 39-45, by J.W.R From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 00:07:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA24508; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:05:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:05:44 -0800 Message-ID: <32D89BDA.7887@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:07:54 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xNBxj3.0.q-5.Mj9so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1305 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John R. Tooker wrote: > > On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > > > > >>>>Have you ever dreamed?>>>> > > > > Yes, I do dream. How is this time travel? Does that mean that if I imagine > > the past I am actually there? Not at all! > > -Adam GRossman > > > > > There are *some* who suggest that dreaming is a *form* of time travel. > And, since we don't know everything about how the brain works, I'm not > about to argue either side of that argument 'till enough data is > available. Perhaps I should have expressed myself better. It is my opinion > that, possibly, dreaming or some form of dreaming, *may* be time travel. > John Once when I was much younger, I dreamed of a series of events that later actually occurred - exactly as I had dreamed! Prognostication? Yes. Time travel? I don't think so, at least not materially. I believe that when one dreams of future events, there is always the possibility of changing the outcome (free will). Perhaps that is why may people who attempt to predict the future are wrong. Although "time travel" may be possible in dreaming, astral projection, etc., I don't think that is what the real issue in this discussion is about. Rather, if a method can be devised that would enable one to project mass at an accelerated rate through time, I would consider that time travel. H.G. Wells "Time Machine" is perhaps the best example of what I am describing. Was the Philadelphia Experiment a man caused "jump" in time? Do the occurances in the Bermuda Triangle have anything to do with time travel? On these questions we can only speculate. Is it possible to produce a device that can cause physical mass to "jump" forward in time? This is a fascinating question. If we could cause something to jump forward in time, would it not also be possible to cause something to jump backwards in time? If so, what would be the outcome in terms of this mass in space? The earth, solar system, etc. is in constant movement through space. The real trick, then, would be how to make physical mass jump forward or backwards in time to a specific point in space (teleport?). -- Phil Gantt See my web page at: http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 02:22:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA11260; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:21:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:21:52 -0800 Message-ID: <32D8BA35.1798@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:47:25 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Naudin´s G-field results.... References: <32D99621.2D72@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zdc5p.0.rl2._iBso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1306 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Maxwell wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > Not demagnetizing only B/H movement. Exceeding the max A/M rating > > on ANY magnet is asking for problems. Sometimes difficult to know > > if max A/M was exceeded. Otherwise correct. > > B/H movement, yes. But this represents a decrease in flux density and, > as such, partial demagnetization > > The graph of the second quadrant for a magnetized material is also known > as the demagnetization characteristic. On removal of a demagnetizing > influence (a back mmf or large gap) the working point does not return > along the original curve but instead returns along a recoil line to a > new working point at a slightly less flux density on the load line. If a > large demagnetizing influence is applied, as can happen when the o/p > coil is short-circuited, it is possible for the new working point to be > well below the original working point. This represents a partial > demagnetization of the material. This is particularly true for ALNICO V > etc. but not so noticeable for modern high-performance neo and ferrite > magnets. > > In short, you can throw a neo magnet into the junk box and get away with > it. But ALNICO magnets have to be stored with a keeper and perform best > when magnetized in situ. > > Maxwell. > > | B > . x| > . P x | > x | > x + O | > x + . | > x + . | > x + . | > x + .| > --+---------------------. > H HI Maxwell You are correct. Today I tend to use only Neo Dym magnets but the reality is a world full of many magnets based on many different materials. Very difficult to come up with one scenario which works in ALL magnetic circuits. What we must all try to achieve is an understanding of ALL the dynamics which apply to ALL magnetic circuits. Recoil loop are normally only just slightly different to normal loops. I agree that recoil can cause a change in operating point, but it is NOT great and can, in my experience be ignored in most magnetic circuit calculations. I would be interested in your comments on my Epitxay-Watson effect. Have you seen the gifs? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 02:49:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA15193; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:49:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 02:49:04 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 05:48:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970112054828_1924658513@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Free Energy - Part 9 Resent-Message-ID: <"b_d6I2.0.Hj3.U6Cso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1307 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On 12/01/1997 02:07:51, you wrote : << Adams Motor. I have not done any more work on the Adams motor since my last posting a few months ago. I would like to have a go at using more powerful magnets (from old hard disks as someone suggested). With 4 relay coils and 6 neodymium/alnico magnets. But, like I keep saying, I need some super-conductor wire, this may be the answer, or I use normal wire but bathed in liquid nitrogen to get the resistance down. This in turn may strip the enamel coating from the wire. :-( Using a ferrite core on the coils will give a poor magnetic field, reduced by a factor of 50%, but it will also have a low magnetic residue. I was thinking of pulsing the coil during ON part of the duty cycle so that there are many back EMF's instead on just the one during the ON cycle. I see that Jean-Louis Naudin has been doing some work on the same machine as myself during August 1996, well done, I must borrow a scope so that I can get some pictures of the input/output of the coils. I am interested to know how he calculates the mechanical power of his motor? >> Dear Rob, I have built in August 96, an Adams motor, but I couldn't find unfortunately any overunity..... I send you directly, a test report (with overview pictures, schematic diagrams and scanned lab's notes) in a wordpad or a word 6 format (zipped), I think this will interest you. I could make calculation of mechanical power output by the measure of stopped time Vs cinetic momentum (see my report). I am interested to share you experience in the Adams motor and some free energy device. Nice to speak with you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 03:34:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA21399; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:33:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:33:44 -0800 Date: 12 Jan 97 06:32:12 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Message-ID: <970112113212_71232.360_GHL54-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"F1EX61.0.CE5.NmCso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1308 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: John, >> Possibly scalars fill both roles. << My point exactly. I'm 100% convinced the answer is in there somewhere. -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 03:41:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA22191; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:40:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:40:16 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112033236.00960634@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:33:43 -0800 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au, harti@bbtt.de, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> Big ERROR Found ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"_wrtF1.0.XQ5.UsCso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1309 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In my posts in the thread "Lenz law harnessing/violating" and my original post from December 1996 "Could somebody criticize this" I have elaborated on simple series of events that happen when a magnetic shield is attracted into the gap of permanent magnet and a coil. * Premise #1 * Two equal but opposing magnetic poles will attract the shield into the gap between themselves STRONGER than one non-opposed magnetic pole. (Look: the accelerating turntable experiment) * Premise #2 * The coil will respond to the loss of the magnetic field (resulting from the shielding of the magnet) by producing an ALIKE magnetic pole to compensate for the change. I have verified this experimentally using hall effect sensor, search coil and polarity of induced current in the main coil. * Premise #3 * The ALIKE pole generated by the coil will AID the attraction of the shield into the gap, which will increase the shielding effect accordingly. * Premise #4 * The back drag experienced by the shield as it departs the gap can be eliminated by opening the coil windings. IF THESE FOUR PREMISES ARE VALID a device utilizing them WILL BE OVERUNITY. THERE JUST IS NO WAY TO DENY THAT ! I have run these ideas through the "gauntlet" on vortex-l and freenrg-l and for a long time NOBODY FOUND anything wrong with it. There were some insignificant objection raised regarding the shielding effect of ferromagnetic materials, effects of eddy currents in the shield, magnetic flux flow, coils switching timing issues, etc..., all of which would indeed affect the efficiency of my PM-gap-coil setup BUT would not defeat the overunity effect Greg Watson even spent one day making simulation of the magnetic flux flow. UNTIL !!! Horace Heffner have made some comments that made me question the POLARITY of the magnetic pole induced by the coil in response to the vanishing magnetic flux. I HAVE REPEATED THE MEASUREMENTS IN THE EXPERIMENT DESCRIBED IN PREMISE #2 AND FOUND THEM TO BE WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *** VERY, VERY BAD MISTAKE *** The coil DOES NOT produce an ALIKE magnetic pole in response to the vanishing magnetic flux. And this invalidates Premise #2 & #3. BUT #1 & #4 are still OK. For those wondering how could I make such a HORRIBLE mistake. The answer is: My oscilloscope was accidentally in SUBTRACT mode !!! :-( I have also failed to theoretically predict the polarity of the magnetic pole produced by the coil. In retrospect, nobody else noticed this theoretical error either, by pointing it out directly. Not even Horace objected to the polarity issue in a very direct way. (but he was pretty close) I apologize to everybody for misleading them by my mistake in measuring the polarity of the magnetic pole especially Stefan Hartman who asked me this question about the magnetic pole polarity DIRECTLY. This DOES NOT invalidate the premises #1 & #4. And does NOT cause the coil to oppose the approach of the magnetic shield into the gap (design of LIAG), but it DOES decrease the attraction of the shield. However the MAJOR overunity mechanism is TRASHED. I hope we all increased our knowledge by participating in this discussion. Mistakes are educational too - don't ignore them. I'm sorry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 03:41:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA22213; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:40:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:40:18 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112023153.00957cb4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 03:33:41 -0800 To: harti@bbtt.de, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Lens Law Harnessing --> Second Phase Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"SwvSx2.0.rQ5.WsCso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1310 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have addresses this issue in the turntable experiment. I am including it on the bottom for you reference The experiment shows that two opposing magnets attract the plate stronger than one non-opposing magnet. Greg Watson simulation agrees I have gotten many replies on the accelerating turntable experiment. One of the most common objections is that removing one of the permanent magnets adds energy to the moving shield. *** This is wrong for several reasons *** Aside from the fact that I have tried the accelerating turntable experiment with the method of shattering and rapidly heating one of the magnets (to destroy its magnetic property) the action of neutralizing one of the magnets influence on the shield, TAKES AWAY some energy, it does NOT add energy. Adding energy would happen if I was adding a magnet (NOT removing it) Furthermore if the magnet is physically quickly removed exactly when the magnetic shield centers itself exactly in the middle of the gap, DOES NOT add any momentum to the shield (plate) because the magnet is rapidly removed in the PERPENDICULAR direction to the direction of the shields travel. Today I have repeated the accelerated turntable experiment using a switchable electromagnet in place of one of the opposing (S-S) permanent magnets, with exactly the same results as removing one of the magnets physically (the electromagnet was switched off when the shield centered itself in the gap) I hope this settles the question whether two equal but opposed (S-S) magnets attract the iron plate (shield) STRONGER than one non-opposed magnet. >I have been running my ideas of the Lenz law harnessing principles through >the gauntlet of vortex-L and freenrg-L and NOBODY has voiced a VALID >objection that stood its ground yet ! > Well, Wait a minute ! Until now we have only discussed the attraction phase and I totally agree that the attraction phase of the iron plate harnesses Lenz Law to extract usefully energy ! (contrary to the normal experiences with Lenz Law !) But now comes the second phase ! What about the iron plate leaving the gap ?? If you switch off the coil at the right moment and flash its energy into a fluorescent bulb, so all energy of the coil is gone and the circuit of the coil is open, there will only be the permanent magnet there, which can hold the iron plate back from moving on. Now this holding back force should be compared to the attraction force over the whole motion ! IN and OUT ! Could it be, that the PM ALONE has STRONGER force to hold the iron plate back, when it wants to move out off the gap ??? That is now the big question ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This experiment (using 2 permanent magnets and an iron plate) is extremely simple and anyone can perform it on the kitchen table to verify the results. The purpose of this experiment is to demonstrate that 2 equal opposed permanent magnets ( i.e. S-S configuration) with a small gap between them WILL pull in the iron plate into that gap (until the plate is centered in the gap) STRONGER than only ONE non-opposed permanent magnet. I have verified the above to NOT be an illusion. I even mounted the iron plate on a large circular turn-table with the plate passing between these two opposed permanent magnets. The plate IS attracted into the gap between the magnets on approach, THEN I neutralized one of the magnets by different means (shattering, rapid heating, moving the magnet rapidly away,...etc.) when the plate is exactly centered in the gap. The net result of the above experiment was the CONSTANT ACCELERATION of the turntable (with the iron plate mounted on it) EACH time the plate was attracted into the gap and then departed the gap with one magnet neutralized. The acceleration is not small and quite visible. This proves that the 2 opposing magnets attract the iron plate into the gap STRONGER than one non-opposed magnet. I SAW THE TURNTABLE SPINNING FASTER AND FASTER MYSELF. Anybody can repeat this experiment using the rapid removal of one of the magnets as the plate passes the symmetry point between the magnets (gap) This is the reason why I proposed using a switchable coil to achieve a similar type of self accelerating effect. (Switching off a coil is much simpler than shattering a magnet :) At 07:46 PM 1/7/97 +0000, you wrote: >> ...I have experimentally verified that this is incorrect, the iron plate IS >> pulled into the gap between to opposing permanent magnets. (gap has to >> small enough) >> and will stop experiencing attraction only exactly in the midpoint of the >> gap, which would happen anyway even the PM was not opposed by another. >> >> Furthermore the iron plate is pulled into the gap between two opposing >> magnets STRONGER than to one non-opposed magnet. !!! ***** VERY IMPORTANT >> ***** >> >> The above simple experiment easily done with two permanent magnets and an >> iron plate proves that opposing magnetic fluxes do NOT decrease the >> attraction of the metal plate as you suggested. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 04:38:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA27901; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:36:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:36:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112043707.0096ff1c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:37:09 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> Big ERROR Found ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"4mSZm.0.Xp6.RhDso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1312 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In my posts in the thread "Lenz law harnessing/violating" and my original post from December 1996 "Could somebody criticize this" I have elaborated on simple series of events that happen when a magnetic shield is attracted into the gap of permanent magnet and a coil. * Premise #1 * Two equal but opposing magnetic poles will attract the shield into the gap between themselves STRONGER than one non-opposed magnetic pole. (Look: the accelerating turntable experiment) * Premise #2 * The coil will respond to the loss of the magnetic field (resulting from the shielding of the magnet) by producing an ALIKE magnetic pole to compensate for the change. I have verified this experimentally using hall effect sensor, search coil and polarity of induced current in the main coil. * Premise #3 * The ALIKE pole generated by the coil will AID the attraction of the shield into the gap, which will increase the shielding effect accordingly. * Premise #4 * The back drag experienced by the shield as it departs the gap can be eliminated by opening the coil windings. IF THESE FOUR PREMISES ARE VALID a device utilizing them WILL BE OVERUNITY. THERE JUST IS NO WAY TO DENY THAT ! I have run these ideas through the "gauntlet" on vortex-l and freenrg-l and for a long time NOBODY FOUND anything wrong with it. There were some insignificant objection raised regarding the shielding effect of ferromagnetic materials, effects of eddy currents in the shield, magnetic flux flow, coils switching timing issues, etc..., all of which would indeed affect the efficiency of my PM-gap-coil setup BUT would not defeat the overunity effect Greg Watson even spent one day making simulation of the magnetic flux flow. UNTIL !!! Horace Heffner have made some comments that made me question the POLARITY of the magnetic pole induced by the coil in response to the vanishing magnetic flux. I HAVE REPEATED THE MEASUREMENTS IN THE EXPERIMENT DESCRIBED IN PREMISE #2 AND FOUND THEM TO BE WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *** VERY, VERY BAD MISTAKE *** The coil DOES NOT produce an ALIKE magnetic pole in response to the vanishing magnetic flux. And this invalidates Premise #2 & #3. BUT #1 & #4 are still OK. For those wondering how could I make such a HORRIBLE mistake. The answer is: My oscilloscope was accidentally in SUBTRACT mode !!! :-( I have also failed to theoretically predict the polarity of the magnetic pole produced by the coil. In retrospect, nobody else noticed this theoretical error either, by pointing it out directly. Not even Horace objected to the polarity issue in a very direct way. (but he was pretty close) I apologize to everybody for misleading them by my mistake in measuring the polarity of the magnetic pole especially Stefan Hartman who asked me this question about the magnetic pole polarity DIRECTLY. This DOES NOT invalidate the premises #1 & #4. And does NOT cause the coil to oppose the approach of the magnetic shield into the gap (design of LIAG), but it DOES decrease the attraction of the shield. However the MAJOR overunity mechanism is TRASHED. I hope we all increased our knowledge by participating in this discussion. Mistakes are educational too - don't ignore them. I'm sorry From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 04:38:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA27748; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:35:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:35:58 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112043617.00971268@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 04:36:19 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Beyond Newman to DNMEC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"QLvw1.0.Pn6.jgDso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1311 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I just like to make two comments about Greg's magnetic flux simulations. 1) The coil DOES NOT suppose to have a ferromagnetic core (should be a superconductor for the best effect) 2) The size relationship of the movable magnetic shield vs. gap size is TOO small. This difference affects NOT ONLY the quantities of shielding and attraction BUT fails to shield the flux above the "centering threshold". (ie. If you really built this setup the plate would NOT center itself in the gap as a larger plate would). This is the reason for the "double hump" in flux magnitude. This is not an insignificant (qualitative) observation ! This simulation does not do anything to disprove the overunity of this setup. HOWEVER if the induced current and magnetic pole at the coil were simulated you would notice that I have made a HORRIBLE mistake and the polarity of the pole produced by the coil would be just the REVERSE to what I claimed (details in "Lenz Law Harnessing --> Big ERROR found"). This really changes everything since the pole produced by the coil will SUBTRACT instead ADD to the attraction of the permanent magnet. I still however don't see that the coil opposes the approach of the plate (that's good news for LIAG) Sorry At 05:50 AM 1/12/97 +1030, you wrote: >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> >> >Greg Watson wrote : >> >Hi Stephan, >> > >> >Have not done leaving sequence as it will be the same as entering >> >sequence. Just reverse the following comments. >> > >> >No coil currents were used in the first 20 PICS. I just wanted >> >all to see and understand how the flux flows through the moving and >> >right hand ferrite (permalloy65). >> > >> >Please notice that the flux flowing through the right hand ferrite >> >actually drops on approach as the moving ferrite offers the magnet >> >a better path for its flux to flow and return to the south pole. >> > >> >As the ferrite enters the gap, please notice flux rising in the >> >right ferrite and reaching a max as the moving ferrite is centered >> >in the gap. This is because flux is now flowing from the magnets >> >north pole through the moving ferrite and through the right hand >> >ferrite back to the magnets south pole. >> > >> >I didn't simulate the right hand ferrite trying to hold the flux >> >value, but it should seem quite clear what will happen. >> > >> >As the ferrite approaches the gap and flux is falling in the >> >right hand coil, wound around the right hand ferrite, it will >> >attempt to hold the ferrite's flux constant. Please note that this >> >WILL NOT create an opposing north pole on the ferrite's left hand side, >> >it will only hold the strength of the existing south pole. This >> >holding ferrite flux (which is larger than if the coil current were not >> >flowing) flux will draw flux from the magnet at the expense >> >of flux flowing in the moving ferrite and so the moving ferrite will >> >be attracted less strongly into the gap. The magnet will also see >> >a better overall external flux path and move up it's B/H curve, >> >increasing overall system flux. This will increase flux flowing >> >in both ferrites. As the right ferrite is now offering a better >> >flux path (relative to the path offered if coil current were not >> >flowing) >> >the flux division between both ferrites will still see >> >more relative flux flowing in the right ferrite and attraction >> >decreasing. >> >Someone has to pay for the current flowing in the ferrite's coil >> >and unluckily for the moving ferrite its it. Damn mother nature >> >wins again! >> >> Yes, but the iron plate is still pulled into the gap. >> Maybe not at the best acceleration, but still pulled in. >> >> Now it is time to compare these forces versus the forces, >> when the coil is switch off and the iron plate wants >> to leave the gap. How strong is the force from the single PM >> at the left side to hold back the iron plate from moving out of the gap ? >> >> Regards, Stefan. > >Hi Stephan, > >You are right. Now is the time. > >Today we stand on the brink of tomorrow. > >I have addressed this post to you to recognize your efforts over >the years in being a true believer in over unity while not loosing >an open mind that sometimes we are mistaken in our assumptions. Not >wrong, just mistaken or not understanding all the facts and coming >to incorrect assumptions and conclusions. > >It is a funny thing about us humans, that we seem to sense when >something can be done, maybe we can sense the flow of future time, >and then get very frustrated in trying to find the path that we >KNOW is there. > >Anyway to the business of Epitxay's idea. > >We have so far looked at the approach phase as flux is decreasing >in the right hand ferrite. But look further and see that flux >starts to increase in that right hand ferrite. At some point, the >flux builds up to be equal to the flux that was present when the >coil was shorted. At that point, the coil current will REVERSE and >form an opposing North pole as the coil attempts to hold the >ferrite's flux constant. This North pole will now offer a reduced >path for the magnets flux and force the magnets flux out to meet >the approaching ferrite block. (See my NN, NS Gifs) > >Now it gets very interesting and we move into new ground. > >The flux forced out finds a good flux path in the approaching >ferrite and flows through it. This increasing flux density >between the moving ferrite and the magnet now INCREASES the >ferrite's attraction into the gap and the ferrite is accelerated. >As the ferrite moves deeper into the gap more and more REVERSE >coil current flows to attempt to block the increasing flux density >being caused by the approaching ferrite and more and more of the >magnets flux is directed into the approaching ferrite. Its moving >energy is growing quickly. It is also causing MASSIVE current to flow >in the coil as the coil attempts to hold the ferrite's flux at the >lower level encountered then the coil was first shorted. > >So what do we have so far? > >As the ferrite approached the gap, initially its acceleration >was retarded by the coil current as we all expected. But now >what's happening is not expected. The ferrite is being attracted >into the gap by very strong flux densities over short distances. >These densities continue to build, the distances to get shorter >and LARGE reverse coil currents to flow. Starting to sound like >another device yet? > >When the moving ferrite is finally centered in the gap and starts >to move out, flux densities start to fall. NOW we open the coil. >Many things happen very quickly. The coil's field caused by the coil's >current falls quickly (Sub micro second stuff), sometime later when >the ferrite's domains realize that the coil's field is gone, they to >unalign their domains and a second field falls (Much slower than the >coil current field) (Could be several micro seconds but still fast). >Most folks don't realize this two field fall, but its real. >The right hand ferrite's domains then start aligning with the >magnets flux. This also happens to the moving ferrite's domains. >As the ferrite moves out of the gap it will experience >ferromagnetic induced back drag, (Not Letz, not eddy currents) >but not much as we have returned to the magnets flux being divided >between the two ferrites. > >Don't get hung up with the falling field, they is nothing conductive >around for eddy currents to be induced in. Putting a load on the >coil is not a good idea as it will only retard the fall of the >coil's field and increase back drag. It already done its work, let it >die in peace. There is a small engineering problem as how to handle >the very large voltages induced into the coil by this rapid field >decrease. Perhaps something like a non linear load that only conducts >at high voltages would be a good idea. Just be sure the current flow >doesn't cause too much back drag. Just one of several engineering >problems to be ironed out. I have an idea, what about a neon tube? > >So what do we have? > >A system which delivers increasing moving ferrite energy AND very >large reverse coil currents. > >Now if you are still with me, you may be starting to see where I am >going. The above is real, I can simulate it and Epitxay turntable >tests verify it. > >Lets alter a few items. > >If we want to reduce the back drag caused >by ferromagnetic attraction, lets get rid of the right hand ferrite >and use an air coil with many....many turns. If we put enough turns >on, the effect on the approach phase will be the same, but on the >exit phase there will not be ANY ferromagnetic drag back and the >field will collapse very quick. Know of any device >which has stated that the device needs a LARGE air coil, using >ferrites in the coil causes the device not to work so well and >suffers problems with massive voltage spikes as the coil collapses? > >We should now move away from the coil being shorted all the time and >look at other arrangements. The ideal method might be to power the >coil from a DC source during the very early phase just long enough >to overcome friction and the small reduction in attraction as the >flux initially falls, then short the coil as the moving ferrite >goes through the flux falling phase to the flux increasing phase, then >connect the coil again to the DC source so it can receive the very >large REVERSE current flow as the reverse coil current attempts to >hold the coil flux constant and finally open the coil so as to >reduce any back drag as the ferrite moves out of the gap. Would >need a complicated commutator. But maybe if we look at the overall >engineering, we would find that the device would still work OK if we >just powered the coil from a DC source. Only then need a simple >commutator which just opens and closes the connection from the coil >to a DC source. Suspect that if batteries were used to power the >device, they might even be recharged by the reverse current flow. >Again don't get hung up on the large voltage spikes as the coil >opens, they need to be there as the coil's field needs to fall >quickly to reduce back drag. Other than cause a problem they do not >enter into the energy flow discussion. > >One problem is that if we now attempt to power this device from its >own reverse power output via a generator connected to a rotary >moving ferrite system, we would find the generator now acting like >a brake as the reverse current flow would turn the generator into >a motor and the motor would counter the torque increase gained. > >Does this sound familiar? > >Today I think we own Mr. Joseph Newman an apology. I have just shown >his motor does work. It does produce over unity operation and I believe >I have explained all the funny side effects we have all read about. > >Mr. Joseph Newman, you were right. Your motor does work. But why did >you and Evan cloud the issue with talk about things in left field. > >Why have I had to reinvent the wheel today? Why don't I own my >own Newman based power source? > >There is no need to invent new physics. > >Its all right here. The only problem >is that the electrical output is not easily gotten at. Very much >earlier I did suggest a way to get electrical energy from a Newman >motor. Its on Stephan's web page. > >It is not my intention to restart the Newman flame war. I will, of >course enter into sane, rational discussion about the above either >by private or group email. I only ask that you first look at my >20 simulation pics, read my earlier posts, open your minds and think >through what I have said. Everything I have said is real. There >may not be equations which mirror what's happening. Don't fall into >the trap of trying to redefine my words to fit into your existing >understanding of physics. Open your minds, look at the pics, read >my words and think. Then lets talk. > >This is only 1 (and not a very good one) of several ways to what I call > >Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. (DNMEC) (My copyright) > >I know that I have placed my words and ideas into the public domain. >May it foster your thinking out of the square. > >I would be pleased to enter into private discussions with any >interested parties about the commercialization of my other DNMEC ideas. > >Live long and prosper. > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 06:11:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA04089; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:11:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:11:09 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:10:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970112091033_1824004701@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How to look for free EM energy? Resent-Message-ID: <"ftxrK.0.o_.x3Fso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1313 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>You can only borrow the energy, and then the universal debt collector catches up with you. He is very efficient. The more you borrow the faster he catches you. If you can figure aout way to escape the boudaries of this problem you are home free. However, the discussions of late about EM circuits, o-u strategies, etc., don't seem to be based upon quantum mechanics. Maybe you have some suggestions?>>>> Well...it doesn't NEED to catch up with you, becuase and energy that gets create needs to get the energy from somewhere (so it's not REALLY breaking the conservation of energy), which turns out to be empty space, which has zero energy. So if you take away from 0 you are left with negative energy to offset the positive energy. So if you can convert this positive energy to work fast enough, the "universal debt collector" doesn't have to catch up to you, but you will also be left with the negative energy. (Actually, I think there are almost as much uses for negative energy as tehre are for positive energy!) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 06:19:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA04784; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:18:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:18:32 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC009B.E4F4A360@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: FW: [Antigravity] UFO Propulsion Paper Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:18:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Kb7dI.0.aA1.sAFso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1314 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- From: Robert Stirniman[SMTP:robert@skylink.net] Sent: zaterdag 11 januari 1997 19:26 To: antigravity@primenet.com Subject: [Antigravity] UFO Propulsion Paper AIAA IAF Paper No. IAA-96- IAA.4.1.07 "An Electromagnetic Rocket Hyper-Light Stellar Drive" P.A. Murad 47th International Astronautical Congress October 7-11, 1996 Beijing China For permission to copy or republish, contact the International Astronautical Federation, 3-5 Rue Mario-Nikis, 75015 Paris France ================================================================== Abstract: Virtues of electromagnetic propulsion are examined in light of recent data published about unusual vehicles. If conditionally treated as credible evidence, enough information exists to develop an electromagnetic rocket and compels reexaming Maxwell's equations which implies that: . Electric surface currents exist that may substain a force, . An analogue exists regarding electric and magnetic effects to generate axial thrust, . Maxwell's equations admit a relativistic solution, and . A cyclonic drive may represent a hyper-light electromagnetic rocket capable of accelerating particles. The proposed device replicates a black-hole singularity creating an unconfined plasma toroid that acts as a particle accelerator for a segmented two-stage drive as well as exploits electric and magnetic currents and charges. The plasma sustains fields and generates electron rings which, due to instabilities, leave the toroid and are accelerated in a magnetic vortex. Analytical results suggest electric effects dominate sub-light speeds while magnetic effects dominate light-speed forces. Relativistic effects, magnetic monopoles, and ball lighting are discussed. Clearly these devices, if they exist, have capabilities probably beyond our current understanding. Paul Murad, Aerospace Engineer, Senior Member AIAA, Vienna Virginia. "The views expressed in this article are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of the US government." =================================================================== From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 06:21:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA05089; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:20:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:20:35 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:19:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970112091956_912094314@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"ZlIqq.0.QF1.mCFso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1315 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>There are *some* who suggest that dreaming is a *form* of time travel. And, since we don't know everything about how the brain works, I'm not about to argue either side of that argument 'till enough data is available. Perhaps I should have expressed myself better. It is my opinion that, possibly, dreaming or some form of dreaming, *may* be time travel.>>> Ah...OK. You made it seem like it was a proven fact that brains are time machines, when in fact there is a slim change that they are. :) -Adam GRossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 06:22:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA05252; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:21:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:21:33 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:20:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970112092051_1757736556@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"YyNed2.0.xH1.gDFso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1316 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>Again, perhaps reading the paper would explain precisely what they mean. I was quoting directly from the paper.>>>> Does it say that the universe is spinning in the paper? Because it sure sounds like it. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 06:23:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA05441; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:22:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:22:36 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:22:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970112092159_1075423976@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"w_MIL.0.pK1.gEFso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1317 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Actually, it was due to interference induced vibration. They aparrently eliminated all known external sources that would cause vibration in the gyro. They deduced, somehow, that the vibration that was left was time acting on the gyro somehow. Would you like me to send you a copy of the paper? It's quite long, and I'd prefer not to fill up anyone's e-mail box with that much stuff. And, my account's text only, otherwise I'd be happy to ftp it to you.>>> I would love to see it, just tell me where I can find it. :) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 06:29:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA07190; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:29:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:29:03 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:28:47 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701121428.PAA03785@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"oy5Ck3.0.Bm1.iKFso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1318 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>>Have you ever dreamed?>>>> > >Yes, I do dream. How is this time travel? Does that mean that if I imagine >the past I am actually there? Not at all! >-Adam GRossman Some people dream about the future. Does that also not mean that they were actually there? I don't think you can experience past or future without actually taking a peek there personally. Memory is the same. We exist in the present, but have the ability to 'go and see the past', and some lucky ones (?) have the ability to go and see the future. Of course time travel (taking your body into the past or into the future) is a step up from this. Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 06:30:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA07224; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:29:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:29:18 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:28:53 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701121428.PAA03787@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"SauES3.0.nm1.yKFso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1319 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>>Since the Kozyrev article also stated that the speed was 700 kms plus or >minus 50 km in a *levorotational* or spinning counterclockwise universe, >(ours)>>>> > >Um...sorry. Our universe is not rotating. >-Adam Grossman Interesting concept the one about levorotational. Take a magnet and with a fine string, suspend a paperclip just millimeters above it. Takes some time to get the right feel to keep a small distance but still not let the paperclip touch the magnet. You will see that the paperclip has a tendency to rotate counterclockwise, regardless of what pole you are using, N or S. Topography of this universe is spiral. Regards - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 06:42:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA10850; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:41:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 06:41:46 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:41:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970112094108_470138510@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"g6-2K.0.Rf2.fWFso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1320 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>You will see that the paperclip has a tendency to rotate counterclockwise, regardless of what pole you are using, N or S. Topography of this universe is spiral.>>> Not at all! Ever heard of the coriolis effect caused by the Earth's rotation? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 07:01:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA14122; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:00:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:00:11 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:59:56 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701121459.PAA04269@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> Big ERROR Found ! Resent-Message-ID: <"dUiIr.0.XS3.vnFso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1321 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >The coil DOES NOT produce an ALIKE magnetic pole in response to the >vanishing magnetic flux. And this invalidates Premise #2 & #3. BUT #1 >& #4 are still OK. > >This DOES NOT invalidate the premises #1 & #4. And does NOT cause the coil >to oppose the approach of the magnetic shield into the gap (design of >LIAG), but it DOES decrease the attraction of the shield. However the >MAJOR overunity mechanism is TRASHED. > >I hope we all increased our knowledge by participating in this discussion. >Mistakes are educational too - don't ignore them. What would keep anyone from utilizing this principle based on only mechanical motion and only permanent magnets being used? Does too much of the mechanical energy get lost removing the second magnet? And what about using a coil that is pre-magnetised by DC (battery) to produce a like magnetic pole? - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 07:13:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA15864; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:12:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 07:12:12 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:11:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970112101132_780979182@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Re : Re: Magnistor testing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.23589.emout20.mail.aol.com.853081892" Resent-Message-ID: <"vFG-B3.0.jt3.9zFso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1322 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.23589.emout20.mail.aol.com.853081892 Content-ID: <0_23589_853081892@emout20.mail.aol.com.34779> Content-type: text/plain To : Maxwell >From JL Naudin On 12/01/1997 09:04:24, you wrote : << Can I ask how many turns for L2-L3? Jean, You said that shorting the o/p coil did not increase input power. Do you still feel this is the case? Also I would recommend using an accurate power meter to measure input power to take into account the change in phase angle of the input current due to any back mmf. It is my experience that calculating true power figures, say, using a double beam CRO is just not accurate enough. Maxwell. >> Dear Maxwell, I have attached in this message, a scan picture of my lab's note with the oscilloscope measures of the Magnistor vers 1.0, I think that you have all test points values (Input Vs Output), and some schematic diagram details of L1,L2,L3. I shall equip my lab with a new PowerMeter instrument (active power, reactive power, cos phi measurement capability), soon. 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(8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA28442; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:23:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:23:03 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:21:49 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701121621.KAA19630@bluestem.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: How to look for free EM energy? Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"4cwYJ.0.Hy6.c_Gso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1323 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>>>>You can only borrow the energy, and then the universal debt collector >catches up with you. He is very efficient. The more you borrow the faster >he catches you. If you can figure aout way to escape the boudaries of >this problem you are home free. However, the discussions of late about EM >circuits, o-u strategies, etc., don't seem to be based upon quantum >mechanics. Maybe you have some suggestions?>>>> > >Well...it doesn't NEED to catch up with you, becuase and energy that gets >create needs to get the energy from somewhere (so it's not REALLY breaking >the conservation of energy), which turns out to be empty space, which has >zero energy. So if you take away from 0 you are left with negative energy to >offset the positive energy. So if you can convert this positive energy to >work fast enough, the "universal debt collector" doesn't have to catch up to >you, but you will also be left with the negative energy. (Actually, I think >there are almost as much uses for negative energy as tehre are for positive >energy!) >-Adam Grossman This (statement that "empty space" has zero energy) is not true. This is in fact the basis of our idea that free energy is possible. The "zero-point energy" as approximated by John Archibald Wheeler is actually quite high, about 5 X 10E93 gm/cm3 as stated by him. See the following: GEOMETRODYNAMICS by John Archibald Wheeler GRAVITATION by Misner, Thorne and Wheeler "Searching for the Sparking of the Vacuum" by J. S. Greenberg and W. Greiner, Physics Today, Aug 1982, pg. 24 "Gravity as a zero-point fluctuation force" by H. E. Puthoff, Physical Review A, Vol. 39 No. 5, March 1, 1989, pg. 2333. "Random electrodynamics: The theory of classical electrodynamics with classical electromagnetic zero-point radiation" by T. H. Boyer, Physical Review D, Vol. II No. 4, 15 Feb 1975, pg. 790. Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 08:26:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA29694; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:25:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:25:49 -0800 Message-ID: <32D8CA29.4D6B@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:25:29 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Experiments in time travel? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CvkT31.0.pF7.B2Hso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1324 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Lets see if we miht bring the sideline discussion of time travel a bit more into line with the intent of this list server, that is, add a bit of actual experimentation rather than theory alone. One poster mentioned the Delta T antenna, and quite correctly pointed out that by feeding the two vertical loops with quatrature signals (90 degrees apart in phase) that the fields within the antenna would be in uniform rotation. Some readers may be familiar with the story of the Montauk Project as documented by Preston Nicoles and others. WE must keep in mind that is anything of Prestons's story is based on fact, that Preston must now be the least reliable witness on the actual technology used. According to his own words 'they' got to him. We can see that Prestons current technical abilities may have suffered, in his description of conventional 220v power distribution transoformers (pole pigs) and their feed line as being "multi-megawatt" power feeds on one of the Montauk tour videotapes. There are many more such examples. A document on the web quotes Preston as stateing that there is a direct relationship between the physical sizes of the delta T antenna, and the portal produced by that antenna. Lets look into this a bit deeper. Given two loops placed at 90 degrees to each other, and fed with a quatrature phased source, we will produce a rotating field within the loops. As we move out from the common center of these loops, the field will have a radial velocity which is a function of the distance from the center of rotation, and the frequancy of the applied quatrature waves. At some point, this rotational velocity (Vr) may aproach C. A question needing direct experimental testing presents itself: What effects might be present as the net rotating field within the loops themsemselves approaches, or reaches C? Could a local event horizon be produced? How could the two quatrature wave fields then express themsemselves to yeild this realtivistic rotating net field? What are the effects of 'red shifting' the magnetic field components of an electromagnetic field? A bit of calculation taken from basic antenna theory will show at what frequancy the rotational velocity will approach C within the loops themselves. At this point, we can see how practical direct experimentation might be, and what order of equipment is needed. Should the time to propogate an effect from one side of the loop to the other enter the picture (and it should do) then we might do well to replace the simple loops of Preston's description of the delta-T with a cubic arangement of square loops in a Hemholtz coil like array. The resultant uniform field within the array can be placed in rotation in the same (quatrature phase drive) manner. Now what effects show their heads as the rotational velocity apraoches C within the uniform field area? We may have needed to scratch our heads a bit longer, but gotten back to the limitation of the speed of propogation across the loops being restricted to C, and such, we cannot produce a net rotating field at C. The question remains, what effects present themselves as we approach this condition? Now, should we really want to scratch our heads some more, we can bypass the argument of time to propogate an effect across the loops being limited to C by replaceing the loops with a constant phase plane scalar wave, and interfer two such wave fronts to yeild the net rotating wave. Now where are we, or when? Vortex theory fans should enjoy the fact that the rotational velocity varies as we approach the point of rotation, so we do have a vortex like system here. Tesla's 'magnetic tornados' perhaps? What may become more significant than the (relativly) simple production of this "portal" (in Prestons words!) is what modulations of this rotational field are needed to control any resultant effects. Maybe this is where all that sacred geometery stuff enters the picture, but I degress. I think that at this point, the discussion may be a bit far off the mark for the freenrg-l list, as there seems to be a need for a lot more discussion of DNC theory and flux gate devices needed. Is there a better forum for the discussion of experimental work along the lines I have set out in this post? I dont think the flux gate and DNC / Newman people need the traffic this might generate on freengy-l, and it seems a bit off topic here. Opinions? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 08:58:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA02273; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:57:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:57:15 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 08:29:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701121629.IAA06920@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"dWuAO1.0.QZ.fVHso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1326 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:41 AM 1/12/97 -0500, you wrote: >>>>You will see that the paperclip has a tendency to rotate counterclockwise, >regardless of what pole you are using, N or S. > >Topography of this universe is spiral.>>> > >Not at all! Ever heard of the coriolis effect caused by the Earth's rotation? QUESTION: WHERE DOES THE TORNADO GET ITS VELOCITY? WHY DOES IT SPIN COUNTERCLOCKWISE IN THIS HEMISPHERE? HOW FAST WOULD THE CORIOLIS EFFECT CAUSE A TORNADO TO SPIN? CHECK OUT THE RICHARD CLEM DEVICE. ALSO THE HUFFMAN DEVICE, SHAEFER DEVICE, SCHOUBERGS DEVICE ETC. ALL OF THESE ARE SAID TO BE SELF RUNNING. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 09:54:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA13975; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:53:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 09:53:43 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:53:24 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701121753.SAA09281@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"xA-k33.0.FQ3.aKIso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1327 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>You will see that the paperclip has a tendency to rotate counterclockwise, >regardless of what pole you are using, N or S. > >Topography of this universe is spiral.>>> > >Not at all! Ever heard of the coriolis effect caused by the Earth's rotation? Would you care to elaborate? Don't see what the coriolis effect would have to do with the topography of the universe. Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 10:34:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA22083; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:33:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 10:33:12 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:32:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970112133234_1757766519@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"I3RN2.0.uO5.cvIso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1328 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>Would you care to elaborate? Don't see what the coriolis effect would have to do with the topography of the universe.>>>> He said that the paper clip would spin, and that this spin is caused my the rotation of the universe. Not at all...it's caused my the spin of the Earth! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 11:35:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA02922; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:34:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:34:45 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:37:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199701121937.UAA17452@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> Big ERROR Found ?? Cc: epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de Resent-Message-ID: <"sMtQa3.0.Zj.JpJso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1329 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>The coil DOES NOT produce an ALIKE magnetic pole in response to the >>vanishing magnetic flux. And this invalidates Premise #2 & #3. BUT #1 >>& #4 are still OK. >> >>This DOES NOT invalidate the premises #1 & #4. And does NOT cause the= coil >>to oppose the approach of the magnetic shield into the gap (design of >>LIAG), but it DOES decrease the attraction of the shield. However the >>MAJOR overunity mechanism is TRASHED. >> >>I hope we all increased our knowledge by participating in this discussion. >>Mistakes are educational too - don't ignore them. > >What would keep anyone from utilizing this principle based on only >mechanical motion and only permanent magnets being used? Does too much of >the mechanical energy get lost removing the second magnet? > >And what about using a coil that is pre-magnetised by DC (battery) to >produce a like magnetic pole? > >- Josef Yes, Epi, don=B4t give up too early ! Reread Greg=B4s analysis from his simulation ! First the moving iron plate when it is still a bit away from the gap is deaccelerated, but at a closer distance it is indeed accelerated into the gap and thus it gets more kinetic energy and the coil current also increases ! I think, it is only a question to find the right timing of shortening and opening the coil ! Then it will work ! What did your turntable experiment with the PM AND COIL prove ? How did you switch the coil and can you describe it in detail ? What exactly happened ? How did you exactly remove the 2nd PM when you tried it with the 2 PMs ? Did you remove the 2nd PM by pulling it out into the height ? Here I copy again Greg=B4s analysis ! For best understanding I recommend to have a look at his 20 GIFs and reread this paragraph at least 3 times ! He has written it pretty complicated, so the first time I also did not get it... I think, there is still a chance to use this principle to build a working overunity device ! This is what Greg wrote: >Now it gets very interesting and we move into new ground. > >The flux forced out finds a good flux path in the approaching >ferrite and flows through it. This increasing flux density >between the moving ferrite and the magnet now INCREASES the >ferrite's attraction into the gap and the ferrite is accelerated. >As the ferrite moves deeper into the gap more and more REVERSE >coil current flows to attempt to block the increasing flux density >being caused by the approaching ferrite and more and more of the >magnets flux is directed into the approaching ferrite. Its moving >energy is growing quickly. It is also causing MASSIVE current to flow >in the coil as the coil attempts to hold the ferrite's flux at the >lower level encountered when the coil was first shorted. > >So what do we have so far? > >As the ferrite approached the gap, initially its acceleration >was retarded by the coil current as we all expected. But now >what's happening is not expected. The ferrite is being attracted >into the gap by very strong flux densities over short distances. >These densities continue to build, the distances to get shorter >and LARGE reverse coil currents to flow. Starting to sound like >another device yet? > >When the moving ferrite is finally centered in the gap and starts >to move out, flux densities start to fall. NOW we open the coil. >Many things happen very quickly. The coil's field caused by the coil's >current falls quickly (Sub micro second stuff), sometime later when >the ferrite's domains realize that the coil's field is gone, they to >unalign their domains and a second field falls (Much slower than the >coil current field) (Could be several micro seconds but still fast). >Most folks don't realize this two field fall, but its real. >The right hand ferrite's domains then start aligning with the >magnets flux. This also happens to the moving ferrite's domains. >As the ferrite moves out of the gap it will experience=20 >ferromagnetic induced back drag, (Not Letz, not eddy currents) >but not much as we have returned to the magnets flux being divided >between the two ferrites. > Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 11:36:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA03036; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:35:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 11:35:14 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:37:43 +0100 Message-Id: <199701121937.UAA17455@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: LC Tanks produce free magnetic energy ? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"208YJ2.0.Jl.mpJso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1330 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >The single contact of relay L1 is normally closed, (i.e. in the unpowered >condition). The experimenter indicated that C1 was initially charged to >12.8 volts, from a conventional car battery. So, if 12.8 Volts is the starting voltage, the energy stored in C1 is as 0.5CV^2 says: 0,8192 Joules. S1 L1 > a----X--------OOOOOOO------------b > | | | | > - | | | | > --- X S2 X S3 --- > --- C1 | | --- C2 > + | | | | > | | | | > c--------------------------------d > > Where; > C1 & C2 are Capacitors, > S1 S2 & S3 are on/off switches, > L is an Inductance, > and a b c d are circuit reference points. > --snip--- > > If we again examine the voltages across C1 and C2 and calculate their > charges, we find that the sum of these charges, is now greater than the > charge we had in C1 at the start. However, the sum of the energy they > contain, in the form of .5LI^2, will be less than we started with in C1 > originally. > > Am I in trouble yet? >In communications with the experimenter, he has indicated that by using >various types of relay (and with an initial charge in C1 of 12.8 volts), a >balanced voltage of between 7.0 and 7.8 volts is obtained. This would >clearly indicate a calculable increase in electrical charge (Q=CV Coulombs), >and support the premise of (1) above. Okay, but if you calculate the energy of both Caps via 2 x .5CV^2 at 7.8 Volts it is just 0,6084 Joules with both Caps... So the energy in both caps is smaller than with the starting voltage in C1... But you are right, the electrical charge in both caps added up is higher using the formular Q=CV ! > > However, let's start the clock again, leaving the switches exactly the same. > As is the habit of an LC circuit, the charge of C2 will try to equalise, > and commences to migrate back through our inductor via the circuit b, L, S2, > d. An electrical current starts to flow in that circuit. Now, at that > point in time when the potential across C2 reaches zero, and the energy of > the capacitor (in the form of .5 CV^2) has been transposed into the magnetic > field of our inductor L (in the form of .5 LI^2) we again stop the clock. > > At this point, let's close S3, open S2, and close S1. Yes, but at this point you have only transfered the remaining 0,3042 Joules from C2 into the coil ! Nothing more ? Or am I wrong ? > > Start the clock again. The energy from the collapsing magnetic field of our > inductor is now compelled to transfer itself into capacitor C1 via the > circuit c, S3, L, S1, a. To do so the voltage across the inductor will rise > to a level sufficient to maintain its initial current. When the magnetic > field has collapsed, stop the clock, and open all the switches. > > Now let's measure the voltage across C1 and calculate again how much charge > it contains. Let's also calculate the energy it now contains in the form of > .5 CV^2 Joules. I suppose you can at maximum also only get the 0,3042 Joules transfered back into C1, so the energy stored in C1 would only be again 2 x 0,3042 Joules = 0,6084 Joules, so you have less energy as when you started... I guess, more electrical charge does not imply also more electrical energy... The voltage is in the square condition and when voltage falls, it might produce more charge in the 2 caps, but the energy depends mainly on the voltage, so still the energy is lower at the end of the experiment ! Or am I wrong with that ?? Please let me know your comments ! Thanks again. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 12:13:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA12183; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:12:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:12:55 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:06:49 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970112091956_912094314@emout19.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BcKK51.0.G-2.6NKso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1331 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > Ah...OK. You made it seem like it was a proven fact that brains are time > machines, when in fact there is a slim change that they are. :) > -Adam GRossman > > I occasionally forget to mention certain things, when I'm discussing these topics. Sorry about that..... I'm so used to not having people to discuss this type of thing that I forget to include such info some times. :) John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 12:16:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA12562; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:16:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:16:04 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:09:51 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970112092051_1757736556@emout12.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"yqClR2.0.743.2QKso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1332 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>>Again, perhaps reading the paper would explain precisely what they mean. > I > was quoting directly from the paper.>>>> > > Does it say that the universe is spinning in the paper? Because it sure > sounds like it. > > I believe that, possibly, he meant that, instead of the whole universe spinning, that the general prefeered direction of rotation is to the left inside the universe. If I recall correctly, if viewed from above, our solar system is rotating counter clockwise. That kind of "levorotation". That is, if I'm interpreting his paper correctly. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 12:17:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA12800; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:16:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:16:22 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:11:25 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970112092159_1075423976@emout05.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jr1Z12.0.r73.KQKso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1333 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I believe Rex Research carries a copy. That's where I got mine. I am also willing to provide copies, on diskette, to anyone interested. I can only supply IBM formatted ones, though. John On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>Actually, it was due to interference induced vibration. They aparrently > eliminated all known external sources that would cause vibration in the > gyro. They deduced, somehow, that the vibration that was left was time > acting on the gyro somehow. > Would you like me to send you a copy of the paper? It's quite long, > and I'd prefer not to fill up anyone's e-mail box with that much stuff. > And, my account's text only, otherwise I'd be happy to ftp it to you.>>> > > I would love to see it, just tell me where I can find it. :) > -Adam Grossman > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 12:59:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA21004; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:58:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:58:50 -0800 Message-ID: <32D96EBB.5B90@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:07:39 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory References: <970112133234_1757766519@emout08.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pSJwo3.0.185.82Lso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1334 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! With regard to the spinning paper clip....this is an intriguing effect that I and some of my friends experimented with after Lee Trippett brought it our attention. The clip does seem to turn in a 'preferred' direction when held suspended above a magnetic pole. However, Charles Yost, editor of Electric Spacecraft Journal said it was more likely caused by the thread used to suspend the clip. You see the thread has twisted strands which acts like a rubberband when the paperclip is pulled downward toward the magnet. The twisted threads unspin from their wound up state. I tried this with a monofilament line and the clip did NOT SPIN. At the suggestion of Joel McClain and Bert Pool, a swivel (used for lures in fishing) was attached to a thread and the clip would NOT SPIN, I think due to the swivel having more resistance than the magnetic field could overcome. Although several swivel sizes were used with different sizes of monofilament line and thread, there was no spin produced. I still agree with Lee that something is going on here, but the forces involved are so minute they would involve much more sensitive measuring techniques. Possibly there is a relationship to what the dowsers call a 'vertical current', referring to some kind of incoming energy that has a twist. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 13:04:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA22459; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:03:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:03:49 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 97 23:10:16 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Anisotropy magnetic material in PMobile Lines: 22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zusCT3.0.oU5.o6Lso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1335 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Anisotropy of magnetic properties as a source for free power output is one of most general ideas those must lead to over-unity. In electrostatics a potential difference produce a work. In magnet field a gradient can produce a work free of any input. This is so called "topological technology". In the system the topology (geometry of operational space) is function of some changing value. If it is change by time, we produce alternating flux in a generator coil as result of process. But it can be changing by space also. Process in this case can be organized by motion of observer. It is clear? For example, coil can be moving along of permanent magnets and coil feel a change of flux like coil in a rest state for the case of alternating flux. Anisotropy of magnetic properties of material is a way to produce a change of flux in a generator coil. To say more, it is necessary to make experiment. Anybody have anisotropical ferrites material? How to produce it in home lab? --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 13:04:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA22525; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:04:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:04:05 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 97 23:22:36 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Chernobrov's Time Experiments Lines: 29 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WCGZ53.0.oV5.27Lso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1336 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In Proceeding of the conference NEw Ideas in Natural Sciences, 1996 it was published a report "Experiments on the change of the direction and rate of time motion" by Vadim A. Chernobrov, by Alexander V. Frolov translator and editor In short: Experimental system represented set of electromagnets, are connected among themselves in serial and in parallel and installed on the globe-shaped surfaces. In various experiments from 3 up to 5 such surfaces, Electromagnetic Working Surfaces (EWS) was used. All EWS layers of various diameters were installed consistently in each other ( similarly to Russian toy "matrioshka"). The maximum EWS size was made about meter, the minimum EWS diameter (internal) was equalled to 115 mm, that has appeared sufficient to place inside of EWS the gauges of the control and experimental animals (various kinds insect and laboratory Mouses ), to investigate the effects of converging spherical electromagnetic of waves were checked up. If to accept a usual reference Time as tE= + 1, will become clear, that while we investigate a range of speed of a Time + 0,99 < t / tE < + 1,01. Hence subjects and animals, placed inwards at any mode of operations ( slowing down or acceleration ) in any case moved in Future faster or slower that ones in environmental area of space. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 13:07:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA23352; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:07:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:07:10 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 97 23:44:04 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Helical spire rule Lines: 19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6GW3x.0.ni5.y9Lso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1337 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, Josef. Spiral structure of Nature (one of many levels of Nature) is demonstrated in physics as a first problem for classical mechanics, by Albert Einstein. He said it in a book "Evolution of Physics" ch.II. when he and Dr. Infeld made a description for old Ersted's experiment. In a classical mechanics all forces are directed by line between bodies. But in electromagnetics force are perpendicular and more that it: force is depend of velocity (current value). So, in mechanics force is a reason for change of velocity, and both are co-directed. In electromagnetics it is not working, it is new level of a space structure, it is interaction that require a new direction that can be demonstrated as a spiral. The direction of current for electromagnetic induction phenomenon can be found by a "rule of left hand" or by a rule of helical spire. It is demonstration of a spiral structure of a Nature ( for second level). --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 13:08:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA23405; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:07:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:07:26 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 97 23:56:43 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: water arc Lines: 7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HHo8x.0.Sj5.BALso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1338 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I made a water arc researches at home some time ago. My counter of dose of radiation showed twin dose up of normal background level. So, it is not a home made work. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 13:47:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA05179; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:46:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:46:33 -0800 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:05:17 +0000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: Can this circuit go over unity? In-Reply-To: <32D69F13.34C4@tiac.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 1.11 <5asEvod5709R6741eo9wbh3aEa> Resent-Message-ID: <"oepOf2.0.qG1.tkLso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1339 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In message <32D69F13.34C4@tiac.net>, bshannon@tiac.net writes >Stefan asked: > >> > Is there any known material, that can be switched on and off >> > with very little power to be magnetic conductive and >> > non-conductive, maybe just toggled via a High Voltage electrode ? > > Although not what is required (sadly) but on similar lines is the fact that certain ferro-magnetic materials can exhibit a fairly sharp transition in their magnetic characteristics at the Curie transition temperature. I had though of a heat engine using this effect before I discovered that Tesla had patented a very similar thing decades ago. My own view is that the use of the non-linear part of the B-H loop is the key to extracting work using magnets. I believe that Harold Aspden has published some information about this, although there's nothing on his web page. -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 14:22:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA11625; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:21:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:21:35 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:21:17 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701122221.XAA13731@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Helical spire rule Resent-Message-ID: <"FtSf9.0.Wr2.jFMso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1340 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Yes, Josef. Spiral structure of Nature (one of many levels of Nature) >is demonstrated in physics as a first problem for classical mechanics, >by Albert Einstein. He said it in a book "Evolution of Physics" ch.II. >when he and Dr. Infeld made a description for old Ersted's experiment. > >In a classical mechanics all forces are directed by line between bodies. >But in electromagnetics force are perpendicular and more that it: force >is depend of velocity (current value). So, in mechanics force is a reason >for change of velocity, and both are co-directed. In electromagnetics it >is not working, it is new level of a space structure, it is interaction >that require a new direction that can be demonstrated as a spiral. The >direction of current for electromagnetic induction phenomenon can be found >by a "rule of left hand" or by a rule of helical spire. It is demonstration >of a spiral structure of a Nature ( for second level). > > >--- >Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia >Tel:7-812-2747877 Thanks Alex, that is good to know. I arrived at it from the other side, reasoning with dimensional structure. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 14:32:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA14923; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:31:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:31:17 -0800 Message-ID: <32D964BA.8B3@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:54:58 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nUZ9-3.0.be3.oOMso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1341 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, You want experiments, well here is a quick one. Just remember to think as well as build. Here is a simple setup which will show you the Watson Effect for Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion is real and REAL WORK can be obtained from the aligned magnetic domains in ANY magnetic material. Ferrite Rod/ Iron Rod/ Electromagnet Bolt/Big Nail V I ooooooooooooooo V ooooooooooooooo------------> F-----------F F-------------F F F F-------------F To Power Supply F-----------F F-------------F with Amp Meter ooooooooooooooo------------> ooooooooooooooo 1) Connect the coil to the power supply and observe that current is flowing. The more turns on the coil, the better. (Reduces idle current and makes the coil more sensitive to flux changes) 2) Hold the rod about 1 cm / 1/2 inch away from either end of the coil. Should be close enough for you to feel the magnets pull. If you can't feel any pull from the magnet, your rod may not be ferromagnetic. 3) Once you feel the electromagnet pulling the rod, quickly push the rod to the magnet while observing the current the magnet is using. 4) You should see a small quick short term reduction in the current as the rod is moved quickly to the magnet and a small quick short term increase in current as the rod is quickly moved away. Digital meters may not show this current change as they tend to average the power over short time periods. 5) So what you may ask. How does this PROVE DNMEC exists? As you hold the rod close to the magnet, lines of flux flow from the magnet to the rod and from the rod back to the magnet and the coil's current is steady. The magnetic flux flowing through the coil is the sum of the coil's flux PLUS the magnetic field produced by the ferrite rod as its magnetic domains align to the applied field from the magnet. As we quickly move the ferrite rod closer to the coil, the distance between the rod and the magnet decreases and the magnetic coupling between the rod and magnet increases. This causes the flux flowing through the coil to increase. As we all know, a coil will resist changes in the flux flowing through it. To resist this increasing flux, the coil must product a reverse current flow to reduce the current flowing through its windings. This is the slight reduction in current flow we saw in the above test. So, by quickly moving the rod to the magnet we have created a reverse current flow which has pumped current back into the power supply. But you say, so what, the energy came from MY moving the rod closer to the magnet. Right? Wrong. Now lets repeat the above test but this time hold the rod at a distance which when released will see the rod quickly pulled to the magnet. You should see a larger reduction in current as the rod will move to the magnet faster than we could do it by hand. This time the attraction was caused by the adding magnetic field of the rod and the magnet. Two things happened this time, electrical energy was pumped into the power supply and the kinetic energy of the rod went up (for a short time). What a pity that kinetic energy was lost when the rod hit the magnet. If we now wind the magnet on a tube so as to allowed the rod to pass through, things get better and if we now open the connection to the power supply just as the rod is about to leave the tube, we would find the rod moving at a greater speed than at the start and we have pumped energy back into the power source. Don't get hung up on the drag back as the rod leaves the tube, there is none as the domains of both the tube and the rod very quickly de-align and become just non-magnetised ferrite rods. What about the energy stored in the magnetic field you ask? Fairly simple to deal with, you just need to complex switching arrangement to store the field energy in a way it can be used again. Remember, this is not an example of how to build an over unity device, only just a simple test which proves it is possible to convert the magnetic field generated by aligned magnetic domains into real WORK. If you are REALLY interested in building a real device, then we should talk, privately. So we how have a rod with more kinetic energy and a power source which has done LESS work. Where did the energy come from? Not from the power source. It's done LESS work. Not from the magnet its held its field constant. It came from the aligned magnetic domains in the rod and ultimately from the energy of the spinning electrons in the crystalline structure of iron atoms which created the rod's magnetic field. Try it, its simple and it WORKS. Then think, think again, then lets talk. Epitxay's turntable experiment on freeng list also verifies this. His setup is different but the above Watson Effect is still at the heart. This effect is also at the heart of the Newman, Adam and probably other motors. Just not clearly understood. Till now. Comments please. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 14:33:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA15158; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:32:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:32:15 -0800 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:31:52 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701122231.XAA13926@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"rAsfj1.0.di3.iPMso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1342 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi! > >With regard to the spinning paper clip....this is an intriguing effect >that I and some of my friends experimented with after Lee Trippett >brought it our attention. > >The clip does seem to turn in a 'preferred' direction when held suspended >above a magnetic pole. However, Charles Yost, editor of Electric >Spacecraft Journal said it was more likely caused by the thread used to >suspend the clip. You see the thread has twisted strands which acts like >a rubberband when the paperclip is pulled downward toward the magnet. > >The twisted threads unspin from their wound up state. I tried this with a >monofilament line and the clip did NOT SPIN. At the suggestion of Joel >McClain and Bert Pool, a swivel (used for lures in fishing) was attached >to a thread and the clip would NOT SPIN, I think due to the swivel having >more resistance than the magnetic field could overcome. > >Although several swivel sizes were used with different sizes of >monofilament line and thread, there was no spin produced. > >I still agree with Lee that something is going on here, but the forces >involved are so minute they would involve much more sensitive measuring >techniques. Possibly there is a relationship to what the dowsers call a >'vertical current', referring to some kind of incoming energy that has a >twist. >-- Shucks Jerry, I had thought of that before, but it slipped my mind. Maybe I start getting old :-) Well - it was just an oddity, and it worked fine, but of course it can be the string unravelling under pull from the magnet. Thanks for clearing that up. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 14:47:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA17849; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:46:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:46:33 -0800 X-Sender: hheffner@corecom.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:47:33 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Change of charters Resent-Message-ID: <"EhH1w2.0.oM4.7dMso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1343 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:56 AM 1/12/97, Scott Little wrote: [snip] >I have little or no interest in efforts to "figure out" >how to make an over-unity electromagnetic system. [snip] > >On the other hand, I am quite interested in discussing actual experiments in >which apparent over-unity behavior has been observed, regardless of the >nature of the experiment. [snip] Another post: >>....and maybe open some discussion about superconductors. > >Horace, over the past year Puthoff and I have spent quite a bit of time >studying the behavior of superconductors in elecromagnetic fields and, >although they are spectacularly unique, there does not appear to be any >departure from the conservative field theory behavior which, as you say, is >fundamentally based upon the principle of Conservation of Energy. > >Again, I am quite willing to examine actual experimental evidence to the >contrary but I feel like it is a waste of time to study the existing theory >looking for ways to build over-unity devices. > Yet another rpost: >Unless you have an actual device that appears to produce more energy than it >consumes...I'd like to see you confine this discussion to freenrg-L. > >I am proposing a subject-based split for Vortex-L and Freenrg-L. Discussion >of actual experiments only for Vortex-L. Discussion of anything to do with >free energy for Freenrg-L. > >All Vortex-L members are free to subscribe to Freenrg-L and vice versa. >This arrangement would therefore not deny anyone access to any discusssion >they might be interested in...but it WOULD significantly reduce the traffic >on Vortex-L. > >Let's have some comments on this issue. Bill, can you set up a "voting >booth" on your web page where we could efficiently poll this issue? > > I just want to emphatically agree with the above. In fact, I tried to post a response to Scott (similar in nature to the above) last night at 1:30 AM, but my system crashed, losing some email and what I was typing (I think Norton Utilities has an incompatibility with the new MacOS and PPP I just installed.) and I was too tired and disgusted to type it again. My apologies - especially for not watching the double posting. I really hoped to open some amateur level of discussion of superconductors on freenrg, not vortex. Once double posting starts it's like a self perpetuating disease. You have to be very deliberate in watching where your replies are going. I realize conventional EM o-u discussions and theories of everything are especially unwelcome to many subscribers to vortex, and that the vortex group was created for discussing Potapov, CF, and theories related to the o-u experiments. It also had become apparent to me, from the dearth of responses, that the subject discussions were of no interest to most everyone on vortex. Those on vortex who are interrested in such things can subscribe (and probably already are subscribed) to freenrg. I should have at least gotten myself out of the vortex loop on this sooner, if not speaking up about the problem. Now *my* pet peeve - double posting. (How embarrasing to be one of the worst recent offenders.) As a member of both vortex and freenrg, I have been deluged with posts, many of them double posts, and some of those double posts are returns of my own. Much more than 50 emails yesterday, and maybe close to a hundred. This is just unworkable. One helpful thing to do would be to restrict incoming posts to a single address. An alternative might be having the list server post them appearing that way, so reponses do not automatically go to multiple places. About topics on vortex - I would certainly not like to see the ball lightning discussions suppressed, even if these are not going on of late, as there appears to be strong *observational* as opposed to experimental evidence for o-u behavior. Possibly specific o-u observations as well as specific experiments could be grounds for discussion. There are also the discussions of the political and legal aspects of o-u, Tampere (Podkletnov), CF (Mills/Jones), etc., which also seem to have a place on vortex. Just some thoughts. I'll post this on freenrg also, but not jointly, thus responses will only go to the list of origin. Finally! Sorry. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 15:26:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA30802; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:25:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:25:34 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:26:37 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Lens Law Harnessing --> Second Phase Resent-Message-ID: <"fly6Z3.0.8X7.hBNso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1344 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 3:33 AM 1/12/97, Epitaxy wrote: [snip] >This experiment (using 2 permanent magnets and an iron plate) is extremely >simple and anyone can perform it on the kitchen table to verify the results. > >The purpose of this experiment is to demonstrate that 2 equal opposed >permanent magnets ( i.e. S-S configuration) with a small gap between them >WILL pull in the iron plate into that gap (until the plate is centered in >the gap) STRONGER than only ONE non-opposed permanent magnet. > >I have verified the above to NOT be an illusion. I even mounted the iron >plate on a large circular turn-table with the plate passing between these >two opposed permanent magnets. The plate IS attracted into the gap between >the magnets on approach, THEN I neutralized one of the magnets by >different means (shattering, rapid heating, moving the magnet rapidly >away,...etc.) when the plate is exactly centered in the gap. > >The net result of the above experiment was the CONSTANT ACCELERATION of the >turntable (with the iron plate mounted on it) EACH time the plate was >attracted into the gap and then departed the gap with one magnet >neutralized. The acceleration is not small and quite visible. > >This proves that the 2 opposing magnets attract the iron plate into the gap >STRONGER than one non-opposed magnet. > >I SAW THE TURNTABLE SPINNING FASTER AND FASTER MYSELF. > >Anybody can repeat this experiment using the rapid removal of one of the >magnets as the plate passes the symmetry point between the magnets (gap) Removal of the magnet, and then replacing it for the next interation, requires energy, an amount equal to or exceeding the amount gained. This is not a demonstration of anything of use. > >This is the reason why I proposed using a switchable coil to achieve a >similar type of self accelerating effect. (Switching off a coil is much >simpler than shattering a magnet :) > > By the same logic, destroying *both* magnets after the attraction eliminates even *more* drag on the departing armature. An even better strategy is to recover the energy used to create *both* the magnets and reuse that energy to later recreate the magnets in the next cycle. Ide did all of that, and still did not get u-o behavior. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 15:50:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA03874; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:49:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:49:37 -0800 Message-ID: <32D976E9.6842@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:12:33 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, harti@bbtt.de, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> Big ERROR Found ! References: <3.0.32.19970112043707.0096ff1c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zEeHG1.0.Ry.GYNso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1345 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitxay wrote: > > * Premise #1 * > Two equal but opposing magnetic poles will attract the shield into the gap > between themselves STRONGER than one non-opposed magnetic pole. (Look: the > accelerating turntable experiment) Correct, I have verified this in Quick Field and by actual testing. > * Premise #2 * > The coil will respond to the loss of the magnetic field (resulting from the > shielding of the magnet) by producing an ALIKE magnetic pole to compensate > for the change. I have verified this experimentally using hall effect > sensor, search coil and polarity of induced current in the main coil. Correct. If the flux flowing through the coil was SN and the flux density drops, the coil will generate its own SN adding field to maintain flux density. I have verified this in practice and on Quick Field. Is this what you mean by an alike pole? > * Premise #3 * > The ALIKE pole generated by the coil will AID the attraction of the shield > into the gap, which will increase the shielding effect accordingly. Incorrect. The coil's field will draw flux away from the plate and into its own pole. This will decrease the attractive force the plate feels. The plate will not slow down, it will only be attracted less strongly. Incorrect again on shielding. This is a bad term. Use flux redirection. It is a more accurate description of what is going on. Ferromagnetic materials can only shield flux if they are capable of redirection all the unwanted flux. Most of the time, all they do is to redirect some of the flux and distort the flux lines. > * Premise #4 * > The back drag experienced by the shield as it departs the gap can be > eliminated by opening the coil windings. Correct. > IF THESE FOUR PREMISES ARE VALID a device utilizing them WILL BE OVERUNITY. > THERE JUST IS NO WAY TO DENY THAT ! I agree if the engineering is done with a really good understanding of what is really going on. > I have run these ideas through the "gauntlet" on vortex-l and freenrg-l and > for a long time NOBODY FOUND anything wrong with it. > > There were some insignificant objection raised regarding the shielding > effect of ferromagnetic materials, effects of eddy currents in the shield, > magnetic flux flow, coils switching timing issues, etc..., all of which > would indeed affect the efficiency of my PM-gap-coil setup BUT would not > defeat the overunity effect > Greg Watson even spent one day making simulation of the magnetic flux flow. One day on simulations, 5-6 years on building an experience data base to drive the simulator. Like all simulators, rubbish in, rubbish out. > UNTIL !!! Horace Heffner have made some comments that made me question the > POLARITY of the magnetic pole induced by the coil in response to the > vanishing magnetic flux. Incorrect. My 20 Gifs showed what is happening. I normally do not make quick comments unless I have done some work in that area. Your idea was new to me and I responded in time with my simulations and posts on the dynamics of the approach phase. While my posts on what is happening differ from to your understand, I believe with your help, we have moved the discussion and prototype building to a newer plane. > I HAVE REPEATED THE MEASUREMENTS IN THE EXPERIMENT DESCRIBED IN PREMISE #2 > AND FOUND THEM TO BE WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *** VERY, VERY > BAD MISTAKE *** > > The coil DOES NOT produce an ALIKE magnetic pole in response to the > vanishing magnetic flux. And this invalidates Premise #2 & #3. BUT #1 > & #4 are still OK. > Alike, unlike can be confusing. Use Adding flux or opposing flux, again its more descriptive of what is going on. > For those wondering how could I make such a HORRIBLE mistake. The answer > is: My oscilloscope was accidentally in SUBTRACT mode !!! :-( > > I have also failed to theoretically predict the polarity of the magnetic > pole produced by the coil. > > In retrospect, nobody else noticed this theoretical error either, by > pointing it out directly. Not even Horace objected to the polarity issue > in a very direct way. (but he was pretty close) > > I apologize to everybody for misleading them by my mistake in measuring the > polarity of the magnetic pole especially Stefan Hartman who asked me this > question about the magnetic pole polarity DIRECTLY. > > This DOES NOT invalidate the premises #1 & #4. And does NOT cause the coil > to oppose the approach of the magnetic shield into the gap (design of > LIAG), but it DOES decrease the attraction of the shield. However the > MAJOR overunity mechanism is TRASHED. > > I hope we all increased our knowledge by participating in this discussion. > Mistakes are educational too - don't ignore them. > > I'm sorry Hi Epitxay, I am building your turntable idea with a few mods as suggested by my simulations. Will report SOON. Please read my Simple PROOF of DNMEC post and try. Stephan, What is the best way to produce an MPEG of my turntable test? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 16:07:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA08629; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:06:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:06:37 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:08:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199701130008.BAA18008@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"WYGxx2.0.g62.BoNso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1346 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi All, > >You want experiments, well here is a quick one. Just remember to >think as well as build. > >Here is a simple setup which will show you the Watson Effect for Direct >Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion is real and REAL WORK can be >obtained from the aligned magnetic domains in ANY magnetic material. > > Ferrite Rod/ > Iron Rod/ Electromagnet > Bolt/Big Nail V > I ooooooooooooooo > V ooooooooooooooo------------> > F-----------F F-------------F > F F F-------------F To Power Supply > F-----------F F-------------F with Amp Meter > ooooooooooooooo------------> > ooooooooooooooo > > >1) Connect the coil to the power supply and observe that current is >flowing. The more turns on the coil, the better. (Reduces idle current >and makes the coil more sensitive to flux changes) > >2) Hold the rod about 1 cm / 1/2 inch away from either end of the coil. >Should be close enough for you to feel the magnets pull. If you can't >feel any pull from the magnet, your rod may not be ferromagnetic. > >3) Once you feel the electromagnet pulling the rod, quickly push the >rod to the magnet while observing the current the magnet is using. > >4) You should see a small quick short term reduction in the current >as the rod is moved quickly to the magnet and a small quick short term=20 >increase in current as the rod is quickly moved away. Digital meters >may not show this current change as they tend to average the power >over short time periods. > >5) So what you may ask. How does this PROVE DNMEC exists? > >As you hold the rod close to the magnet, lines of flux flow >from the magnet to the rod and from the rod back to the magnet and >the coil's current is steady. The magnetic flux flowing through the >coil is the sum of the coil's flux PLUS the magnetic field produced >by the ferrite rod as its magnetic domains align to the applied >field from the magnet. > >As we quickly move the ferrite rod closer to the coil, the distance >between the rod and the magnet decreases and the magnetic coupling >between the rod and magnet increases. This causes the flux flowing >through the coil to increase. As we all know, a coil will resist >changes in the flux flowing through it. To resist this increasing >flux, the coil must product a reverse current flow to reduce the >current flowing through its windings. This is the slight >reduction in current flow we saw in the above test. > >So, by quickly moving the rod to the magnet we have created a reverse >current flow which has pumped current back into the power supply. But >you say, so what, the energy came from MY moving the rod closer to >the magnet. Right? > >Wrong.=20 > >Now lets repeat the above test but this time hold the rod at a distance >which when released will see the rod quickly pulled to the magnet. >You should see a larger reduction in current as the rod will move >to the magnet faster than we could do it by hand. This time the >attraction was caused by the adding magnetic field of the rod and >the magnet. > >Two things happened this time, electrical energy was pumped into the >power supply and the kinetic energy of the rod went up (for a short >time). > >What a pity that kinetic energy was lost when the rod hit the magnet. > >If we now wind the magnet on a tube so as to allowed the rod to pass >through, things get better and if we now open the connection to the >power supply just as the rod is about to leave the tube, we would >find the rod moving at a greater speed than at the start and we >have pumped energy back into the power source. > >Don't get hung up on the drag back as the rod leaves the tube, there >is none as the domains of both the tube and the rod very quickly >de-align and become just non-magnetised ferrite rods. > >What about the energy stored in the magnetic field you ask? Fairly >simple to deal with, you just need to complex switching arrangement >to store the field energy in a way it can be used again. Remember, >this is not an example of how to build an over unity device, only >just a simple test which proves it is possible to convert >the magnetic field generated by aligned magnetic domains into >real WORK. > >If you are REALLY interested in building a real device, then we should >talk, privately. > >So we how have a rod with more kinetic energy and a power source >which has done LESS work. Where did the energy come from? >Not from the power source. It's done LESS work. Not from the magnet >its held its field constant. It came from the aligned magnetic >domains in the rod and ultimately from the energy of the spinning >electrons in the crystalline structure of iron atoms which created >the rod's magnetic field. > >Try it, its simple and it WORKS. Then think, think again, then lets >talk. > >Epitxay's turntable experiment on freeng list also verifies this. His >setup is different but the above Watson Effect is still at the heart. >This effect is also at the heart of the Newman, Adam and probably >other motors. Just not clearly understood. Till now. > >Comments please. Hi Greg ! Hmm, I still have questions ! Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the ferrite moves into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might just= only draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic energy at this moment ! You just converted the potential magnetical=20 coil energy back to moving kinetic energy of the ferrite ! But you did=20 not win anything !?? Yes, I have also observed this effect long ago, when I was building my first Newman-machines in the 80s when I just used a big coil and a reciprocating Permanent magnet inside it, like Newmans reciprocating machine. I once tested it laying at 90 degrees like in your description above and not like Newman=B4s normal standing configuration, where the magnet just= jumps up and down..., so I also saw on my analog Ampere-Meters, that the current to the coil from the Power-supply was reduced, when the PM was pulled at speed into the coil, when I energized the coil with DC Voltage from the powersupply ! I also wondered about that, that the magnet has gained speed and the current decreased at this point , but probably I did not think more about this at this time. Also it was a bit different, cause I had no steady current flow inside the coil, but the current just started to increase inside the coil.=20 But when the magnet then moved into the coil ,the normal 1-e^-t/RL coil current curve was not anymore this way, but was more like a linear or even x^2 increase, thus a reduced input current was flowing inside the coil as the magnet gained speed and was "sucked" into the coil.= =20 I wondered about it at this time, but thought, okay, that was Lenz law action and concluded, this way also the stored energy inside the coil was reduced, so I did not keep any attention to it anymore.. Well, now here are the big 2 questions:=20 1. Does this effect just convert the stored magnetic energy of the coil back to moving kinetic energy and the= conservation of energy law is still valid , or is the total of moving kinetic energy plus= the reduced potential magnetic coil energy still more than the first inputted electrical energy to produce the potential magnetic coil field ? 2. Does this only depend on the materials used and coil wire configuration,= =20 what Newman preaches ?? Please let me know your view on this. Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 16:34:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA16326; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:33:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:33:58 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:36:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199701130036.BAA18067@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de (Wolf-Dietrich Bauer) (by way of harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann)) Subject: little correction of letter to J.L.Naudin Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"S4VW23.0.z-3.qBOso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1347 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hallo Stefan ! Mir ist inzwischen noch eine Unkorrektheit in einer meinen letzten Mails aufgefallen. Kannst Du es weiterposten ? ------------------------ Schnipp Schnapp ----------------------------- Hallo !! In an open letter to J.L.Naudin regarding the optimization of any type of flux-gate generators I wrote: >4) Use appropriate iron materials with transformer laminations >For the high fields of these magnets special iron materials which saturate >at high fluxes are strongly demanded if you use high field magnets to get >high voltages. For example, a suited material I think is PERMAX F by >VACUUMSCHMELZE(Hanau) It saturates at 1.5 T and has a quite flat (and low) >hysteresis. It is used in. null balance transformern for residual current devices and measurement transducers. >The laminations of this materials should be normally 0.1- 0.2 mm ! Indeed, laminated PERMAX cores are very good materials for this purposes because their saturation at 1,5 T, mu=50000 lies significantly above the B- field of a neodymium magnet(max. 1,2 T) and can be used in dynamical fields. But it is better to take not a flat but a S-shaped hysteresis material with high initial permeability(mu=110000). In a flux gate generator the consequence is a lower H field at fixed flux( which is set by the big magnetic resistance of the airgap). Further consequences are a lower field energy in the iron cores and therefore a lower torque of the iron cores in the field. The big disadvantage of this laminated cores is that they are very expensive ! Best regards Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 16:35:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA16499; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:34:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 16:34:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:37:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199701130037.BAA18071@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"QQJlb.0.b14.gCOso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1348 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi All, > >You want experiments, well here is a quick one. Just remember to >think as well as build. > >Here is a simple setup which will show you the Watson Effect for Direct >Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion is real and REAL WORK can be >obtained from the aligned magnetic domains in ANY magnetic material. > > Ferrite Rod/ > Iron Rod/ Electromagnet > Bolt/Big Nail V > I ooooooooooooooo > V ooooooooooooooo------------> > F-----------F F-------------F > F F F-------------F To Power Supply > F-----------F F-------------F with Amp Meter > ooooooooooooooo------------> > ooooooooooooooo > > >1) Connect the coil to the power supply and observe that current is >flowing. The more turns on the coil, the better. (Reduces idle current >and makes the coil more sensitive to flux changes) > >2) Hold the rod about 1 cm / 1/2 inch away from either end of the coil. >Should be close enough for you to feel the magnets pull. If you can't >feel any pull from the magnet, your rod may not be ferromagnetic. > >3) Once you feel the electromagnet pulling the rod, quickly push the >rod to the magnet while observing the current the magnet is using. > >4) You should see a small quick short term reduction in the current >as the rod is moved quickly to the magnet and a small quick short term=20 >increase in current as the rod is quickly moved away. Digital meters >may not show this current change as they tend to average the power >over short time periods. > >5) So what you may ask. How does this PROVE DNMEC exists? > >As you hold the rod close to the magnet, lines of flux flow >from the magnet to the rod and from the rod back to the magnet and >the coil's current is steady. The magnetic flux flowing through the >coil is the sum of the coil's flux PLUS the magnetic field produced >by the ferrite rod as its magnetic domains align to the applied >field from the magnet. > >As we quickly move the ferrite rod closer to the coil, the distance >between the rod and the magnet decreases and the magnetic coupling >between the rod and magnet increases. This causes the flux flowing >through the coil to increase. As we all know, a coil will resist >changes in the flux flowing through it. To resist this increasing >flux, the coil must product a reverse current flow to reduce the >current flowing through its windings. This is the slight >reduction in current flow we saw in the above test. > >So, by quickly moving the rod to the magnet we have created a reverse >current flow which has pumped current back into the power supply. But >you say, so what, the energy came from MY moving the rod closer to >the magnet. Right? > >Wrong.=20 > >Now lets repeat the above test but this time hold the rod at a distance >which when released will see the rod quickly pulled to the magnet. >You should see a larger reduction in current as the rod will move >to the magnet faster than we could do it by hand. This time the >attraction was caused by the adding magnetic field of the rod and >the magnet. > >Two things happened this time, electrical energy was pumped into the >power supply and the kinetic energy of the rod went up (for a short >time). > >What a pity that kinetic energy was lost when the rod hit the magnet. > >If we now wind the magnet on a tube so as to allowed the rod to pass >through, things get better and if we now open the connection to the >power supply just as the rod is about to leave the tube, we would >find the rod moving at a greater speed than at the start and we >have pumped energy back into the power source. > >Don't get hung up on the drag back as the rod leaves the tube, there >is none as the domains of both the tube and the rod very quickly >de-align and become just non-magnetised ferrite rods. > >What about the energy stored in the magnetic field you ask? Fairly >simple to deal with, you just need to complex switching arrangement >to store the field energy in a way it can be used again. Remember, >this is not an example of how to build an over unity device, only >just a simple test which proves it is possible to convert >the magnetic field generated by aligned magnetic domains into >real WORK. > >If you are REALLY interested in building a real device, then we should >talk, privately. > >So we how have a rod with more kinetic energy and a power source >which has done LESS work. Where did the energy come from? >Not from the power source. It's done LESS work. Not from the magnet >its held its field constant. It came from the aligned magnetic >domains in the rod and ultimately from the energy of the spinning >electrons in the crystalline structure of iron atoms which created >the rod's magnetic field. > >Try it, its simple and it WORKS. Then think, think again, then lets >talk. > >Epitxay's turntable experiment on freeng list also verifies this. His >setup is different but the above Watson Effect is still at the heart. >This effect is also at the heart of the Newman, Adam and probably >other motors. Just not clearly understood. Till now. > >Comments please. Hi Greg ! Hmm, I still have questions ! Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the ferrite moves into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might just= only draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic energy at this moment ! You just converted the potential magnetical=20 coil energy back to moving kinetic energy of the ferrite ! But you did=20 not win anything !?? Yes, I have also observed this effect long ago, when I was building my first Newman-machines in the 80s when I just used a big coil and a reciprocating Permanent magnet inside it, like Newmans reciprocating machine. I once tested it laying at 90 degrees like in your description above and not like Newman=B4s normal standing configuration, where the magnet just= jumps up and down..., so I also saw on my analog Ampere-Meters, that the current to the coil from the Power-supply was reduced, when the PM was pulled at speed into the coil, when I energized the coil with DC Voltage from the powersupply ! I also wondered about that, that the magnet has gained speed and the current decreased at this point , but probably I did not think more about this at this time. Also it was a bit different, cause I had no steady current flow inside the coil, but the current just started to increase inside the coil.=20 But when the magnet then moved into the coil ,the normal 1-e^-t/RL coil current curve was not anymore this way, but was more like a linear or even x^2 increase, thus a reduced input current was flowing inside the coil as the magnet gained speed and was "sucked" into the coil.= =20 I wondered about it at this time, but thought, okay, that was Lenz law action and concluded, this way also the stored energy inside the coil was reduced, so I did not keep any attention to it anymore.. Well, now here are the big 2 questions:=20 1. Does this effect just convert the stored magnetic energy of the coil back to moving kinetic energy and the= conservation of energy law is still valid , or is the total of moving kinetic energy plus= the reduced potential magnetic coil energy still more than the first inputted electrical energy to produce the potential magnetic coil field ? 2. Does this only depend on the materials used and coil wire configuration,= =20 what Newman preaches ?? Please let me know your view on this. Best regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 17:18:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA31005; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:17:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:17:51 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112171745.00964e70@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:18:14 -0800 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> Big ERROR Found ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"1hEla2.0.Ka7.zqOso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1349 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am glad that you have not abandoned thinking about this despite THE BIG ERROR in my experiment I have discovered. MY ANSWERS ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW At 10:12 AM 1/13/97 +1030, you wrote: >Epitxay wrote: >> >> * Premise #1 * >> Two equal but opposing magnetic poles will attract the shield into the gap >> between themselves STRONGER than one non-opposed magnetic pole. (Look: the >> accelerating turntable experiment) > >Correct, I have verified this in Quick Field and by actual testing. > >> * Premise #2 * >> The coil will respond to the loss of the magnetic field (resulting from the >> shielding of the magnet) by producing an ALIKE magnetic pole to compensate >> for the change. I have verified this experimentally using hall effect >> sensor, search coil and polarity of induced current in the main coil. > >Correct. If the flux flowing through the coil was SN and the flux >density drops, the coil will generate its own SN adding field to maintain flux >density. I have verified this in practice and on Quick Field. This is where I made my BIG MISTAKE. Consider this: An ideal situation with only an ideal permanent magnet and an ideal coil (that means superconductive coil). The coil and permanent magnet are facing each other with a gap between them. (both aligned on an imaginary straight line). The coil "sees" the all of the flux from the permanent magnet and care is taken to dissipate any current that might be flowing through the coil at this time. Now the coil is moved away from the permanent magnet. The coil experiences an ATTRACTION to the permanent magnet that opposes the movement of the coil (this is a classical Lenz Law). If the coil experiences ATTRACTION in response to the "vanishing" flux from the permanent magnet, SO THE COIL MUST PRODUCE A POLE OF AN OPPOSITE POLARITY since opposite poles attract and alike poles repel. I am also wondering about the right-hand-rule which says that the polarity of a magnetic field created by the current carrying conductor (ie. coil) is ALWAYS linked to the direction of that current. (ie. an electromagnet can be made to produce either S or N pole depending which way the current flows through an electromagnet). Now consider the ideal magnet & ideal coil just like in the example above. The coil is infinitely far away from the magnet and there is no current flowing through the coil. During the approach of the coil toward the magnet, the coil "sees" more and more flux from the PM and according to the Lenz law it is REPELLED from the magnet. We have to put work into bringing the coil close to the magnet at which point the superconductive coil will have maximum current circulating through it and is experiencing maximum repulsion from the PM. Now we start moving the coil away from the PM. QUESTIONS: Is the coil repelled or attracted ? What happens to the polarity of the current flowing through the coil, what polarity of the magnetic pole is induced at the coil ? Remember that current through the coil cannot change discontinuously and according to the right-hand-rule which links the current direction to the magnetic polarity, the magnetic polarity ALSO cannot change discontinuously. >Is this what you mean by an alike pole? Yes this is what I mean be an ALIKE pole. I am noticing that this term is somewhat confusing, what do you suggest as an alternative ? >> * Premise #3 * >> The ALIKE pole generated by the coil will AID the attraction of the shield >> into the gap, which will increase the shielding effect accordingly. > >Incorrect. The coil's field will draw flux away from the plate and into >its >own pole. This will decrease the attractive force the plate feels. The >plate >will not slow down, it will only be attracted less strongly. Yes I agree that this is what happens. The phrase "...attracted less strongly..." is very much to my liking. However this means that the poles on each side of the gap are of the opposite polarity (look at my comments on premise #2). If the poles were of the same polarity, than the plate would experience an attractive force from both of the poles (just as you verified in premise #1). >Incorrect again on shielding. This is a bad term. Use flux >redirection. Ok, I like "flux redirection" >It is a more accurate description of what is going on. Ferromagnetic >materials >can only shield flux if they are capable of redirection all the unwanted >flux. >Most of the time, all they do is to redirect some of the flux and >distort the >flux lines. > >> * Premise #4 * >> The back drag experienced by the shield as it departs the gap can be >> eliminated by opening the coil windings. > >Correct. I agree. I will paste my analysis of the timing issue here for other people to read: THE TIMING ISSUE The electric current accumulated in the coil during the approach phase will cause an undesirable back drag on the departing plate from the gap, However the departing plate is not very strongly attracted back into the gap before the trailing edge of the plate leaves the gap. (attraction vs. position of the plate has a parabolic relationship) This means that the coil has a relatively long time to discharge before the remaining current starts having the maximum back drag attraction when the trailing edge of the plate starts leaving the gap (this time is straight proportional to the width of the plate (not thickness)) Furthermore discharging the current in the coil (preferably into useful load) at the high voltage DOES NOT increase the strength of the magnetic pole generated by the coil. Some people wrote to me that if you discharge a coil at high voltage 1000 times faster than charging the coil, 1000 more magnetic intensity will be produced for this short time according to conservation of energy - THIS IS VERY WRONG ! Now that we have the charge/discharge times vs. magnetic field intensity out of the way, it can be easily seen that a hypothetical 1 millisecond back drag on the departing plate from the gap happens at the same magnetic intensity as the forward 1 second attraction ( varying attraction of the plate aside). Considering the inertia of the plate, the 1 second forward attraction will give the plate considerably more momentum THAN the 1 millisecond back drag attraction, will take away. (both are happening at the same magnetic intensity). On top of that we have the nonlinearity of attraction vs. plate position which I just described above and the constant dissipation of energy in the load and coil resistance (by the way, this decreases the forward attraction) >> IF THESE FOUR PREMISES ARE VALID a device utilizing them WILL BE OVERUNITY. >> THERE JUST IS NO WAY TO AROUND THAT ! (too bad #2 & #3 are wrong) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 17:28:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA32613; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:27:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:27:49 -0800 Message-ID: <32D98DBF.798D@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:49:59 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, bshannon@tiac.net, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, harti@bbtt.de Subject: Additional PROOF of DNMEC over unity operation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1HrMN3.0.Qz7.J-Oso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1350 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Attached are 4 Gifs explaining why some motor/generators maybe overunity and others have no chance. The difference is in the location of the coils and the magnets to the air gap. If the magnet/coil is buried in the magnet circuit, I.E. the flux has to flow thru a ferrite to get to the air gap then the coils flux will be summed with the magnets flux in the ferrite and over unity operation will NOT be possible. Increasing coil flux due to an approaching ferrite rotor the causes the coil to produce an opposing flux to counter the rising flux. This opposing flux is summed with the magnets flux in the ferrite flux path and the flux delivered in the gap is reduced, reducing rotor attraction and requiring more torque from the driving source. Bad news here, no over unity operation can result. The first gif shows buried magnet and coil with opposing coil flux (rotor moving in) and decreasing rotor attraction (299n @ 133 degrees). The second gif shows buried magnet and coil with adding coil flux (rotor moving away) and increased rotor attraction (321n @ 124 Degrees). The magnet is in the middle of the left leg and the coil is in the middle of the right leg. HOWEVER all is not lost. If the magnet and coil are positioned on the ends of the ferrite flux path, something very different happens. As the rotor moves in system flux increases, the coil produces an opposing flux to counter the rising system flux. Nothing new yet. As the coil is on the end of the ferrite flux path and the left end is in the air gap, flux summing DOESN'T happen. Instead the coil's opposing flux forces the magnets flux out to meet the approaching rotor and rotor attraction is increased. The reverse happens as the rotor leaves the gap with system flux falling. The coil produces an adding flux to stop the system flux falling. This adding coil flux pulls more flux from the magnet and from the rotor DECREASING rotor attraction and back drag. The third gif shows the rotor moving in and system flux increasing and opposing coil flux flowing (attraction 372n @ 127 degrees). The fourth gif shows the rotor moving out and system flux decreasing and adding coil flux flowing (attraction 348n @ 125 degrees) The magnet is on the end of the left horizontal leg and the coil is on the end of the right horizontal leg. Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion is possible. You only need to get the physical relationship and the engineering right. Comments? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 18:14:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA12334; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:13:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:13:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32D998CD.3412@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:37:09 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, harti@bbtt.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? References: <199701130037.BAA18071@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hANPm.0.a03.XfPso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1351 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic > energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving > ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic > field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the > ferrite moves > into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might just only > draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic Wrong, The coil energy is constant. The current reduced because the approaching ferrite's aligned domains added their own field to the coil's field. Thats why the coil current drops. The increasing field is generating back emf into the power supply. I repeat, the coil energy is constant. > energy at this moment ! You just converted the potential magnetical > coil energy back to moving kinetic energy of the ferrite ! But you did > not win anything !?? Wrong. The ferrite has increased kinetic energy and the power supply has done less work and the coil energy is constant. Stop trying to make this effect fit Letzian physics. It doesn't disagree with Letz just because Letz can't explain it. > Yes, I have also observed this effect long ago, when I was building my > first Newman-machines in the 80s when I just used a big coil and > a reciprocating Permanent magnet inside it, like Newmans reciprocating So did I and for 5-6 years I have tried to understand what happens. Now I am telling you and the world. I don't want this to be buried. The physics are solid. The results can be simulated on software that only builds models on our accepted laws of physics. > machine. I once tested it laying at 90 degrees like in your description > above and > not like Newman´s normal standing configuration, where the magnet just jumps > up and down..., so > I also saw on my analog Ampere-Meters, that the current to the coil > from the Power-supply was reduced, when the PM was pulled at speed into the > coil, > when I energized the coil with DC Voltage from the powersupply ! > I also wondered about that, that the magnet has gained speed and the current > decreased > at this point , but probably > I did not think more about this at this time. > > Also it was a bit different, cause I had no steady current flow inside the > coil, but the current just started to increase inside the coil. > But when the magnet then > moved into the coil ,the normal 1-e^-t/RL coil current curve was not anymore > this way, > but was more like a linear or even x^2 increase, thus a reduced input > current was flowing > inside the coil as the magnet gained speed and was "sucked" into the coil. > > I wondered about it at this time, but thought, okay, that was Lenz law > action and concluded, this way also the stored energy inside the coil was > reduced, > so I did not keep any attention to it anymore.. > > Well, now here are the big 2 questions: > > 1. Does this effect just convert the stored > magnetic energy of the coil back to moving kinetic energy and the conservation > of energy law is still valid , or is the total of moving kinetic energy plus the > reduced potential magnetic coil energy still more than the first inputted > electrical energy to produce the potential magnetic coil field ? Forget the inputed energy for the moment, I will address it later. Just understand that the coil's energy stays constant, the rod's kinetic energy increases and the work done by the power supply is reduced. I did state earlier that any over unity device would need to see some of the normal energy flows reversed. Starting to understand??? > 2. Does this only depend on the materials used and coil wire configuration, > what Newman preaches ?? Somewhat, see my latest post on buried/edge magnet/coil configs for more clues to the puzzle. > Please let me know your view on this. > > Best regards, Stefan. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 18:29:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA18329; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:28:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:28:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32D99C68.2F7@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:52:32 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Stefan Hartmann Subject: Re: Lenz Law Harnessing --> Big ERROR Found ! References: <199701130036.BAA18064@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UmkXA.0.-T4.ZtPso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1352 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Please respond to my answer to your DNMEC as soon as possible... Nothing I have told you is new. All I have done is pull all the effects together and analyze what happens. I tried to have a totally open mind and not try to fit the results into existing physics, but to use the results (good & bad) to re-teach me magnetic physics. In that way if I am able to see further, I only do so by standing on the shoulders of ALL who have gone before. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 19:04:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA27539; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:04:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:04:20 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112190440.00970ed0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:04:41 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"343g02.0.pj6.mOQso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:37 PM 1/13/97 +1030, you wrote: >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> >> Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic >> energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving >> ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic >> field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the >> ferrite moves >> into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might just only >> draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic > >Wrong, The coil energy is constant. The current reduced because the >approaching >ferrite's aligned domains added their own field to the coil's field. >Thats >why the coil current drops. The increasing field is generating back emf >into >the power supply. I repeat, the coil energy is constant. Ok. Greg this is the way I understand it: If an ideal coil is energized with an electrical current the coil will develop a magnetic dipole and the flux will "travel" from the N pole to the S pole of the coil. No matter how we guide the flux from the N to S pole the energy of the coil will remain constant. The energy of the coil is INDEPENDENT from the shape of the flux lines. The only way to change energy in this "energized coil" system is to introduce a FOREIGN source of flux. This foreign (external) flux can come from an external permanent magnet, another energized coil, moving conductor etc. Your big point is that a ferromagnetic material's magnetic domains also act as this foreign source of magnetic flux and that is the real cause of the current change in the coil. If the ONLY function of the ferrite was to redirect the coil's flux without consuming magnetic energy for the ferromagnetic domain alignment, THE current in the coil would NOT change as the ferromagnetic moves near (or inside) the coil. Unfortunately the process of flux redirecting is linked to the domain alignment ! Do I have it right ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 20:26:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA17817; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:26:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:26:01 -0800 Message-ID: <32D9B533.792A@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:38:19 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy Subject: Re: Additional PROOF of DNMEC over unity operation References: <3.0.32.19970112183859.009764f0@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yMaTw.0._L4.LbRso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1354 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > When you say opposing flux you must mean the same polarity pole but > geometrically opposed (ie. S-S) > If we just used an approaching magnet and coil (to simulate the increasing > flux scenario) the coil would be REPELLED from the magnet (classical Lenz > Law). This means that the coil must generate a magnetic pole of the same > polarity as the PM since alike poles repel and opposite attract. Am I > missing something here ? (This is where I made my big mistake) Flux summing occurs for fluxes mixed inside of a magnetic conduction path. IE ferrite. As the rotor approaches the gap, the magnet and coil flux must flow through a ferrite path flux and flux summing occurs and the gap flux is reduced, reduced attraction occurs. Flux summing DOESN'T occur with fluxes in an air gap. The flux lines distort and reach out for the approaching flux and attraction increases. Over unity is only possible when the fluxes meet in the gap. BOTH magnet and coil must exist in the gap! -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 20:26:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA17864; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:26:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:26:16 -0800 Message-ID: <32D9B7F9.49EB@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:50:09 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? References: <3.0.32.19970112190238.0097c69c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EHejq2.0.0N4.ZbRso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1355 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > At 12:37 PM 1/13/97 +1030, you wrote: > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >> > >> Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic > >> energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving > >> ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic > >> field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the > >> ferrite moves > >> into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might > just only > >> draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic > > > >Wrong, The coil energy is constant. The current reduced because the > >approaching > >ferrite's aligned domains added their own field to the coil's field. > >Thats > >why the coil current drops. The increasing field is generating back emf > >into > >the power supply. I repeat, the coil energy is constant. > > Ok. Greg this is the way I understand it: > > If an ideal coil is energized with an electrical current the coil will > develop a magnetic dipole and the flux will "travel" from the N pole to the > S pole of the coil. No matter how we guide the flux from the N to S pole > the energy of the coil will remain constant. The energy of the coil is > INDEPENDENT from the shape of the flux lines. > Not really correct, but I don't want to comment further at this time. Is not so important as other effects. > The only way to change energy in this "energized coil" system is to > introduce a FOREIGN source of flux. This foreign (external) flux can come > from an external permanent magnet, another energized coil, moving conductor > etc. Your big point is that a ferromagnetic material's magnetic domains > also act as this foreign source of magnetic flux and that is the real cause > of the current change in the > coil. Correct!!!!! > If the ONLY function of the ferrite was to redirect the coil's flux > without consuming magnetic energy for the ferromagnetic domain alignment, No magnetic energy is consumed by the ferrite's domains aligning to the applied field. Well maybe a very....very little. However the aligned domains release a great deal of magnetic energy when they are aligned. > THE current in the coil would NOT change as the ferromagnetic moves near > (or inside) the coil. Unfortunately the process of flux redirecting is > linked to the domain alignment ! > NO! Assuming the coil is driven from a voltage source, the current drawn from the supply will reduce as the total field increases as the ferrite rod moves closer to the magnet. Think of it as the ferrite's magnetic field inducting a reverse current flow in the coil in an attempt to reduce the total system flux. > Do I have it right ? Close but try me again. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 21:54:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA01598; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:54:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:54:36 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:57:20 +0100 Message-Id: <199701130557.GAA18703@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Additional PROOF of DNMEC over unity operation Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"6SLrH1.0.tO.RuSso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1356 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi All, > >Attached are 4 Gifs explaining why some motor/generators maybe >overunity and others have no chance. > >The difference is in the location of the coils and the magnets to >the air gap. > >If the magnet/coil is buried in the magnet circuit, I.E. the flux >has to flow thru a ferrite to get to the air gap then the coils >flux will be summed with the magnets flux in the ferrite and >over unity operation will NOT be possible. Increasing coil flux >due to an approaching ferrite rotor the causes the coil to produce >an opposing flux to counter the rising flux. This opposing flux >is summed with the magnets flux in the ferrite flux path and the >flux delivered in the gap is reduced, reducing rotor attraction and >requiring more torque from the driving source. Bad news here, no >over unity operation can result. > >The first gif shows buried magnet and coil with opposing coil flux >(rotor moving in) and decreasing rotor attraction (299n @ 133 degrees). > >The second gif shows buried magnet and coil with adding coil flux >(rotor moving away) and increased rotor attraction (321n @ 124 Degrees). > >The magnet is in the middle of the left leg and the coil is in the >middle of the right leg. > >HOWEVER all is not lost. > >If the magnet and coil are positioned on the ends of the ferrite >flux path, something very different happens. > >As the rotor moves in system flux increases, the coil produces an >opposing flux to counter the rising system flux. Nothing new yet. >As the coil is on the end of the ferrite flux path and the left end >is in the air gap, flux summing DOESN'T happen. Instead the coil's >opposing flux forces the magnets flux out to meet the approaching >rotor and rotor attraction is increased. > >The reverse happens as the rotor leaves the gap with system flux >falling. The coil produces an adding flux to stop the system flux >falling. This adding coil flux pulls more flux from the magnet and >from the rotor DECREASING rotor attraction and back drag. > >The third gif shows the rotor moving in and system flux increasing >and opposing coil flux flowing (attraction 372n @ 127 degrees). > >The fourth gif shows the rotor moving out and system flux decreasing >and adding coil flux flowing (attraction 348n @ 125 degrees) > >The magnet is on the end of the left horizontal leg and the coil >is on the end of the right horizontal leg. > >Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion is possible. You only need >to get the physical relationship and the engineering right. > >Comments? > Hi Greg, it is not yet totally clear to me.. Can you maybe make 20 Gifs of each configuartion and email them to me ? So I can see, what happens, before the ferrite moves into the gap and waht happens, when the ferrite moves out of the gap. Do you let the coil be shorted all the time or when do you open the circuit of it ?? Please let me know. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 21:54:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA01622; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:54:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:54:45 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:57:22 +0100 Message-Id: <199701130557.GAA18706@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"6mS3k2.0.FP.ZuSso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1357 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >>=20 >> Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic >> energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the= moving >> ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic >> field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the >> ferrite moves >> into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might just only >> draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic > >Wrong, The coil energy is constant. The current reduced because the >approaching >ferrite's aligned domains added their own field to the coil's field.=20 >Thats >why the coil current drops. The increasing field is generating back emf >into >the power supply. I repeat, the coil energy is constant. So do you mean, when the coil is then switched off (circuit opened), it still has the same energy as if the current would still be at 10 mA ? (and not at 5 mA ?) That would explain the huge back current pulses inside the first Newman motor when the coil is opened ! > >> energy at this moment ! You just converted the potential magnetical >> coil energy back to moving kinetic energy of the ferrite ! But you did >> not win anything !?? >=20 >Wrong. The ferrite has increased kinetic energy and the power supply >has done >less work and the coil energy is constant. Hmm, yes, but the input current into the coil does not go negative during the approach of the ferrite (magnet). I verified this when building Newman machines... The input current is reduced, but still is in the positive direction. Only when the coil circuit opens, then there is a huge back current flowing into the battery ! (but this also depends on the commutator position in the Newman motor, so it depends at which phase angle the PM inside the Newman coil is at !) Could you please elaborate to explain the first Newman machine, how do you think it worked from your understanding now ? > >Stop trying to make this effect fit Letzian physics. It doesn't >disagree with >Letz just because Letz can't explain it. hard for me... > >> Yes, I have also observed this effect long ago, when I was building my >> first Newman-machines in the 80s when I just used a big coil and >> a reciprocating Permanent magnet inside it, like Newmans reciprocating > >So did I and for 5-6 years I have tried to understand what happens. Now >I >am telling you and the world. Tell us more ! :) > >I don't want this to be buried. The physics are solid. The results can >be simulated on software that only builds models on our accepted laws of >physics. > >> machine. I once tested it laying at 90 degrees like in your description >> above and >> not like Newman=B4s normal standing configuration, where the magnet just= jumps >> up and down..., so >> I also saw on my analog Ampere-Meters, that the current to the coil >> from the Power-supply was reduced, when the PM was pulled at speed into= the >> coil, >> when I energized the coil with DC Voltage from the powersupply ! >> I also wondered about that, that the magnet has gained speed and the= current >> decreased >> at this point , but probably >> I did not think more about this at this time. >>=20 >> Also it was a bit different, cause I had no steady current flow inside= the >> coil, but the current just started to increase inside the coil. >> But when the magnet then >> moved into the coil ,the normal 1-e^-t/RL coil current curve was not= anymore >> this way, >> but was more like a linear or even x^2 increase, thus a reduced input >> current was flowing >> inside the coil as the magnet gained speed and was "sucked" into the= coil. >>=20 >> I wondered about it at this time, but thought, okay, that was Lenz law >> action and concluded, this way also the stored energy inside the coil was >> reduced, >> so I did not keep any attention to it anymore.. >>=20 >> Well, now here are the big 2 questions: >>=20 >> 1. Does this effect just convert the stored >> magnetic energy of the coil back to moving kinetic energy and the conservation >> of energy law is still valid , or is the total of moving kinetic energy plus the >> reduced potential magnetic coil energy still more than the first inputted >> electrical energy to produce the potential magnetic coil field ? >=20 >Forget the inputed energy for the moment, I will address it later. Just >understand that the coil's energy stays constant, the rod's kinetic >energy >increases and the work done by the power supply is reduced. Okay, but where is the overunity in this example ? > >I did state earlier that any over unity device would need to see some of >the normal energy flows reversed. Starting to understand??? Please explain, maybe I am too blind today to see it ! It is also early in the morning over here and I have to finsih to write a test report and I am tired... > >> 2. Does this only depend on the materials used and coil wire= configuration, >> what Newman preaches ?? >=20 >Somewhat, see my latest post on buried/edge magnet/coil configs for more >clues to the puzzle. Well, it seems, we have to build the Brown Ecklin flux switch differently than we thought of, if your simulation is right... Please go on explaining ! How do you get overunity from your examples ? Regards, Stefan. > >> Please let me know your view on this. >>=20 >> Best regards, Stefan. > >--=20 >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 22:02:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA03089; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:01:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:01:52 -0800 Message-ID: <32D9D09B.78AF@plix.com> Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:05:15 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Anisotropy magnetic material in PMobile References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"68Kr-.0.5m.F_Sso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1358 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Anisotropy of magnetic properties as a source for free power output is one > of most general ideas those must lead to over-unity. In electrostatics a > potential difference produce a work. In magnet field a gradient can produce > a work free of any input. This is so called "topological technology". In the > system the topology (geometry of operational space) is function of some > changing value. If it is change by time, we produce alternating flux in a > generator coil as result of process. But it can be changing by space also. > Process in this case can be organized by motion of observer. It is clear? > For example, coil can be moving along of permanent magnets and coil feel a > change of flux like coil in a rest state for the case of alternating flux. > > Anisotropy of magnetic properties of material is a way to produce a change > of flux in a generator coil. To say more, it is necessary to make experiment. > Anybody have anisotropical ferrites material? How to produce it in home lab? > > --- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 I am not sure if what I am going to describe relates directly to your post, but it is what I might term a "magnetic diode." If you laminate different magnetic shielding materials together, I think you can get the magnetic field to go more in one direction than the opposite. Here's how: MAGNET---GAP---SOFT STEEL SHIELD---MU METAL SHIELD---GAP---COIL Let's say the soft iron shield has a high saturation point, but only cuts the magnetic field strength in half. Now let's say that now that the field is cut in half, it is below the saturation point of the mu metal, and the mu metal cuts it by a factor of ten; so overall the field seen at the coil is 1/20 that of the magnet's surface. Now, suppose you wanted to note the effect of the shield on a magnetic field produced at the coil (perhaps some back emf or Lenz type counter field) and seen by the magnet. Further, for the sake of illustration, let's let that field be the same strength as that of the magnet on the left. It, being above the saturation point of the mu metal, passes right through suffering little (let's say no) attenuation. It then encounters the steel, and being below the saturation point of the steel, gets cut in half. So we have the field going from left to right cut to 1/20th, but the field going from right to left cut by 1/2. Because of the differences in shielding abilities and saturation points of different materials, and since (at least from what I have found) materials of high shielding ability have lower saturation points than those of low shielding ability, it is important to have the high saturation material nearest the strong magnetic source. In the various magnetic designs that have been proposed, I think it would be interesting in the simulations to take into account material composits that exhibit this directional magnetic property. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 22:09:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA05294; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:09:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:09:27 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 00:08:09 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701130608.AAA15526@bluestem.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Professional Debunkers Cc: neotech@xbn.shore.net Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"H02ZM2.0.cI1.L6Tso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1359 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, This appeared on the TAOSHUM mailing list (taoshum-l@eskimo.com). I thought some of you might find it interesting! Zack w9sz@prairienet.org > >Hi to all on taos... > >Yes ... its a sad fact there is people out there on the net who get paid >to do professional debunking on certain news groups and lists. > >They do this in a number of ways. >1. They do out right criticism of your work or understanding. >2. They use sarcasms or out right rude public comments. >3. They use confidence tricks (con-man) and slowly lead you in the wrong >direction. >4. Email your pere group behind your back and influence them. >5. They even argue between themselves to get people to follow one of them or > take sides, thus further leading those astray. > >But the Primary objective is to 'GET YOU OFF THE LIST or DISCREDIT YOU'. > >So let it be known ladies and gents the professional debunkers are there and >they are real... I've had my share of them. > >But you have to take the good with the bad, I don't mind. They sometimes help >you out and they don't even realize it themselves. > >Now I'm not saying there are any such people on this list, but you can never >be to careful. I don't care how many Doctrines/PHD's or letters and >certifications you have behind your name. There is a billion and one back yard >and small lab. personnel who have just as much right to knowledge as the person >with the PHD on a piece of paper. And have just as much right to express their >truth from their own experimentation. Conflicting terminology is a big thing >across language barriers; people some times spend a lot of time arguing >about the same knowledge base, only to find they were just using different >names to describe the same event. > >Be a man/women don't wimp out because it gets tough: stand on your own two feet. > >-G.D.Mutch > > > > >=IIII== E-mail: mutchg@topaz.cqu.edu.au ===================================IIII= > II _--_|\ * G.D.&C.M.Mutch |-oo[ New-Age Pioneer ]oo- II > || / |_\ * * Rockhampton. | Alternative : Energy, || > || \_.--._/ . Queensland. | Health, Wealth ,Personal || > II Great/ s@uthern/ land/ * Australia. | & Social Values Today. II >=IIII====================================================By=Ascii=Arts=====IIII= >Current member of Amnesty International. >Have the guts to stand UP and say "NO!" to the current use of Bio-Telemetry. >NB. Please keep trying if you have problems with the above e-mail address. > > -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 23:10:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA21124; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:10:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:10:25 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:10:48 -0800 To: neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: INE Web Site Updated Jan. 12, 1997 Resent-Message-ID: <"xB5A12.0.z95.V_Tso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Jan. 12. 1997 Added: What we know on the "Stevens Device." Added: NEN TOC Vol. 4, No. 9, January 1997. New Energy Scientists of the Year, 1996 The New-Energy Year In Review Anti-Gravity From Finland (No Doubts About It) Over-Unity Motor Design, by Harold Aspden - Book Review The People List and Organization List pages. Most entries and addresses are awaiting approval from each person via return mailings. Updated: Websites, Authors, Subjects, Announcements, Commercial Sources and Information Sources pages. Changed: Bad link pointers in all NEN TOC files (INE8*'s); INE_REVS changed to REVISIONS. Site Counter = 56,817. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 12 23:20:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA22943; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:19:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:19:43 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112232006.0098b2cc@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:20:08 -0800 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"8Khg-.0.Fc5.A8Uso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I can't ignore Stefan's argument; You pump 10mA through the coil, attract a ferrite in the hole, and get only 5ma back but increase ferrite's momentum. How about idealizing this situation. Use ideal (ie. superconductive coil). Charge it up with 10mA and disconnect the power supply. The current in the coil will persist without the power supply because there is no resistance to dissipate it. Now the ferrite is attracted into the hole in the coil and the coil current DECREASES to 5ma but the ferrite gains mechanical momentum. (unless you claim the current is INCREASED to 15mA instead ?) I can't help but draw the conclusion that the missing 5mA was spent on increasing the ferrite's momentum. Am I missing something ? At 06:57 AM 1/13/97 +0100, you wrote: >>Stefan Hartmann wrote: >>> >>> Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic >>> energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving >>> ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic >>> field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the >>> ferrite moves >>> into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might just >only >>> draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic >> >>Wrong, The coil energy is constant. The current reduced because the >>approaching >>ferrite's aligned domains added their own field to the coil's field. >>Thats >>why the coil current drops. The increasing field is generating back emf >>into >>the power supply. I repeat, the coil energy is constant. > >So do you mean, when the coil is then switched off (circuit opened), >it still has the same energy as if the current would still be at 10 mA ? >(and not at 5 mA ?) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 02:10:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA28300; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:10:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:10:17 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:11:33 -0600 To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, NEOTECH@xbn.shore.net Resent-Message-ID: <"j40Sf3.0.1w6.7eWso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1362 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >From: Brian Snyder >Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 21:30:16 -0800 >Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. > >Very interesting stuff guys! Ive been reading the posts and studying all >about Mr. Newman and his machine. Does anyone have a basic plan of how >they made a working model? Ive seen the drawings (Gif'S),but I haveing >some trouble trying to make it out...... Can anyone here that has made >or seen one help me out with some diagrams or a picture? I would greatly >appreciate it!! > >Brian Snyder >ATS Electronics To Forum Members, I'm posting the following for the benefit of some of the new members: ------------------------------------------ I hope you've had the opportunity to read the SPECIAL REPORT (posted on the website) which features general background information regarding the work of Joseph Newman. I should highly recommend reading the book --- The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman --- prior to constructing your own prototype. Because Joseph Newman developed his mechanical Theory of Gyroscopic Particles BEFORE ever constructing his first prototype --- which was based upon his new understanding of the _mechanical nature_ of electromagnetic fields -- it is certainly to one's benefit to better understand the Theory behind the practical application. In this way one would have a better understanding of the rationale behind the nature of the Motor/Generator's construction and can hopefully develop innovations which build on Joseph Newman's work. His book represents over three decades of research into the fundamental nature of (electro)magnetism. The latest 7th Edition can be ordered directly by sending a $74.95 check or money order to Joseph Newman Publishing Company, Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452. Or, others have reported the availability of earlier editions book through their local libraries, -- or, some have ordered the book through their libraries -- or, some have obtain earlier editions via the inter-library loan system. A hard copy of the 1996 Wiring & Construction Diagram is supplied with all new book purchases. A gif image of the Diagram is available via the Forum Archives and through Stefan Hartmann's site at: http://www.overunity.de Joe has recently assembled info from a combination of videotapes into one 2.5 hour videotape. [Included Feb. '96 Mobile Demonstration; Minn-Kota Motor Tests; Demo by independent Newman Energy Machine builder in Philadelphia, and more]. This $35 videotape is available from Joseph Newman Publishing Co., Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147. I also have available a 67-minute VHS tape of back-to-back news broadcasts regarding Joseph Newman's work (includes: Dan Rather's CBS Evening News Report about the technology, CNN/ABC National News, The 5-part Series, PBS Affiliate Documentary on Joseph Newman, and finally the entire segment when Joseph Newman was featured on the Tonight Show). This tape may be ordered by sending a $10 check/money order payable to Evan Soule', P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684. If you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Very sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html Subscribing to Newman-L ----------------------- Send e-mail to LISTSERV@EMACHINE.COM. In the body of the message, put your subscription requests as SUBSCRIBE NEWMAN-L The Forum was created in June and is operated by Ralph Hartwell, Chief Engineer with the CBS-affiliate TV station in New Orleans. Ralph has worked with Joseph Newman over the years and assisted him in the construction of his largest 12,000+ lb Motor/Generator prototype. Ralph has an extensive understanding of conventional electrical engineering and how it relates to the innovations developed by Joseph Newman. Ralph's email address: ralph.hartwell@emachine.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 02:10:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA28351; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:10:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:10:26 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:11:40 -0600 To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: CORROBORATIVE INFO FROM THE JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, NEOTECH@xbn.shore.net Resent-Message-ID: <"M50ax2.0.dw6.FeWso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1363 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Repost: for benefit of new members --- CORROBORATIVE INFO FROM THE JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS IT COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT A RESEARCH REPORT PUBLISHED IN THE JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS (Volume 77, Issue 11, June 1, 1995, pages 6015-6020) PUBLISHED BY THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF PHYSICS, further validates the pioneering work of inventor Joseph Newman. TITLE: Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a Resonance Circuit of Unconventional Magnetic Configuration PREFACE: The behavior of an LCR (inductance-capacitance-resistance) circuit with a moveable ferromagnetic core is discussed. The core is attracted by a magnetic field generated by an electric current resulting from the discharge of a capacitor in the closed LCR circuit. An unusual increase in recharge voltage, which was dependent on the magnetic configuration of the coil, was observed. This voltage increase does not conform to the mathematical simulation of the system. The possibility that a positive electromotive force was involved in this effect is discussed. ------------------------------------------------------ The following is a particularly interesting statement from this article: ------------------------------------------------------ "Generally speaking, it is expected that the total recharge voltage will decrease because this system produces mechanical output as the core moves. However, through a series of experiments, it was discovered that results depend on the magnetic configuration of the coils used in the circuit. In other words, for a certain kind of magnetic field, the opposite result could occur --- an increase in the average current and recharge voltage. To confirm the above observations, an experiment was conducted, which is described in this article." ------------------------------------------------------ The following was one of the final conclusions presented in this article: ------------------------------------------------------ "It can be postulated that the complex movement of magnetic flux generates a positive EMF, but the cause of the voltage increase is not clear." ------------------------------------------------------ Through his research over the past 30 years and as demonstrated in his numerous experiments and working prototypes, Joseph Newman has presented a comprehensive explanation for the cause of the "voltage increase" described in the above article. I urge the reader to locate a copy of this research article from the Journal of Applied Physics, published by the American Institute of Physics, and review it for yourself. Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS telephone numbers: (601) 947-7147 or (504) 524-3063 addresses: Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 USA or P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, Louisiana 70157-7684 email: josephnewman@earthlink.net Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 02:39:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA31899; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:39:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:39:38 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970113024009.00a1f460@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:40:11 -0800 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: DNMEC --> will it be 5mA or 15mA ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"yQWrQ2.0.3o7.d3Xso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1364 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I can't ignore Stefan's argument; You pump 10mA through the coil, attract a ferrite in the hole, and get only 5ma back plus increased ferrite's momentum. No energy gain here. How about idealizing this situation and eliminating the external power supply for simplicity of analysis. Use ideal (ie. superconductive coil). Charge it up with 10mA and *disconnect* the power supply totally. At this point, the 10mA current in the coil will persist forever without the power supply because there is no resistance to dissipate it. Now, the ferrite is attracted into the hole in the coil and the coil current DECREASES to 5ma but the ferrite gains mechanical momentum. We just bought the ferrite's momentum with the 5mA current loss from the coil. No energy gain here. Do you claim the coil current is INCREASED to 15mA instead ? If you do, than you may have something here ! At 06:57 AM 1/13/97 +0100, you wrote: >>Stefan Hartmann wrote: >>> >>> Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic >>> energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving >>> ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic >>> field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the >>> ferrite moves into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it >>> might just only draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored >>> magnetic energy >>Wrong, The coil energy is constant. The current reduced because the >>approaching ferrite's aligned domains added their own field to the coil's field. >>Thats why the coil current drops. The increasing field is generating back emf >>into the power supply. I repeat, the coil energy is constant. >So do you mean, when the coil is then switched off (circuit opened), >it still has the same energy as if the current would still be at 10 mA ? >(and not at 5 mA ?) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 02:53:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA02631; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:52:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:52:45 -0800 Message-ID: <32DAFE34.534E@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:32:04 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnistor testing References: <970112101132_780979182@emout20.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wf8i1.0.xe.xFXso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1365 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > I have attached in this message, a scan picture of my lab's note with the > oscilloscope measures of the Magnistor vers 1.0, I think that you have all > test points values (Input Vs Output), and some schematic diagram details of > L1,L2,L3. > > I shall equip my lab with a new PowerMeter instrument (active power, reactive > power, cos phi measurement capability), soon. Jean-louis, Thank you for the lab notes. I see from your figures that you have obtained approx less that 5.5 milliWatts of o/p into 100 ohms. As I see it, what you need to do now, in order to show some o/u effect, is to prove that the increase in input power does not exceed this value. Also I would like to see the effect of L2/L3 on the o/p coil with no magnet and with the 100 ohms load. Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 02:53:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA02644; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:52:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:52:49 -0800 Message-ID: <32DB135F.6812@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:02:23 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Lens Law Harnessing --> Second Phase References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eQeYK2.0.Df.zFXso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1366 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > >The purpose of this experiment is to demonstrate that 2 equal opposed > >permanent magnets ( i.e. S-S configuration) with a small gap between them > >WILL pull in the iron plate into that gap (until the plate is centered in > >the gap) STRONGER than only ONE non-opposed permanent magnet. > Removal of the magnet, and then replacing it for the next interation, > requires energy, an amount equal to or exceeding the amount gained. This > is not a demonstration of anything of use. Although I have only been loosely following this thread, I agree with this statement. Ignoring for the moment any anomolous energy effects due to the gap, Work is done pushing the magnet back 'uphill' toward the other magnet again. Which then raises the question: what pushed that ball around and around in the finsrud demonstration?! Curious, Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 02:53:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA02775; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:53:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 02:53:16 -0800 Message-ID: <32DB1E3E.5076@triode.net.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:48:47 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CORROBORATIVE INFO FROM THE JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-mKCc.0.Gh.QGXso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1367 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > Through his research over the past 30 years and as demonstrated in his > numerous experiments and working prototypes, Joseph Newman has presented a > comprehensive explanation for the cause of the "voltage increase" described > in the above article. I urge the reader to locate a copy of this research > article from the Journal of Applied Physics, published by the American > Institute of Physics, and review it for yourself. > > Evan Soule' > Director of Information > NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS Thanks for this info Evan. I notice there is a newman-l. How do I subscribe? Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 04:36:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA17595; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 04:36:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 04:36:38 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 03:37:52 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: CORROBORATIVE INFO FROM THE JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, NEOTECH@xbn.shore.net Resent-Message-ID: <"19ODE.0.mI4.KnYso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1368 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 5:11 AM 1/13/97, Evan Soule wrote: >Repost: for benefit of new members --- > > >CORROBORATIVE INFO FROM THE JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS > >IT COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT A RESEARCH REPORT PUBLISHED IN THE JOURNAL OF >APPLIED PHYSICS (Volume 77, Issue 11, June 1, 1995, pages 6015-6020) >PUBLISHED BY THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF PHYSICS, further validates the >pioneering work of inventor Joseph Newman. > >TITLE: >Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a Resonance Circuit of Unconventional >Magnetic Configuration [snip] > >Evan Soule' [snip] Several things should be noted about this article: (1) The author and researcher is Osamu Ide, of the Clean Energy Laboratory, National Group Corp., Shinagawa, Japan (2) Magnetic configurations similar to the motor configurations tested in the article have been discussed at length in the freenrg group for a number of weeks. (3) Anomalous data was observed, but no over unity performance was observed. (4) No mention of Joseph Newman or his theory is made in the article. (5) Credit and reference for theories that do come into play in the explanation, i.e. that the motional EMF caused by the cutting of magnetic flux and the induced EMF caused by Faraday's law are independent phenomena, was given to: G. Cohn, Electrical Eng. 68, 441 (1949), P. Moon, and D. Spencer, J. Franklin Institute 260, 23 (1955) Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 05:31:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA25157; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:31:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:31:31 -0800 Message-ID: <32D9E103.61FB@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:45:15 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy Subject: Re: Additional PROOF of DNMEC over unity operation References: <3.0.32.19970112210722.00986eac@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bczb93.0.x86.maZso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1369 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitxay wrote: > > At 02:38 PM 1/13/97 +1030, you wrote: > >Epitxay wrote: > >> > > >> If we just used an approaching magnet and coil (to simulate the increasing > >> flux scenario) the coil would be REPELLED from the magnet (classical Lenz > >> Law). This means that the coil must generate a magnetic pole of the same > >> polarity as the PM since alike poles repel and opposite attract. Am I > >> missing something here ? (This is where I made my big mistake) > > > >Flux summing occurs for fluxes mixed inside of a magnetic conduction > >path. > > I understand and agree with the flux summing issue. It appears to be really > a crucial point. > > Please comment on my analysis of the polarity of the induced pole (above). > It is very important that we come to an agreement on this point. > You statement on the induced field in the coil as the magnet approaches is correct. The coil will produce an opposing field in an attempt to reduce the increasing field from the approaching magnet. This opposing field will oppose the approaching magnet. > >I.E. ferrite. As the rotor approaches the gap, the magnet and coil > >flux must flow through a ferrite path flux and flux summing occurs and > >the > >gap flux is reduced, reduced attraction occurs. > > REDUCED if an opposite pole is generated, INCREASED when the same pole > polarity is generated (by the coil) *** VERY IMPORTANT *** > > >Flux summing DOESN'T occur with fluxes in an air gap. The flux lines > >distort > >and reach out for the approaching flux and attraction increases. > > Yes in the air gap flux splitting occurs instead. (i.e. flux from each > component affects the moving shield relatively independently). This is the > reason why I suggested using a double walled shield to increase this effect > in the "Nuts&Bolts" list point #7. > Don't believe this will have any major effect. Flux distortion is the goal. > >Over unity is only possible when the fluxes meet in the gap. BOTH magnet > >and > >coil must exist in the gap! > > I agree and that was my reason for #15 on the "Nuts&Bolt" list. > > > >Best Regards, > >Greg Watson, > >Greg Watson Consulting, > >Adelaide, South Australia, > >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > > > > > > > -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 05:32:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA25217; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:31:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:31:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32D9E5C5.2671@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:05:33 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? References: <199701130557.GAA18706@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yJSv-2.0.r96._aZso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1370 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >> > >> Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic > >> energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving > >> ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic > >> field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the > >> ferrite moves > >> into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might just > only > >> draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic > > > >Wrong, The coil energy is constant. The current reduced because the > >approaching > >ferrite's aligned domains added their own field to the coil's field. > >Thats > >why the coil current drops. The increasing field is generating back emf > >into > >the power supply. I repeat, the coil energy is constant. > > So do you mean, when the coil is then switched off (circuit opened), > it still has the same energy as if the current would still be at 10 mA ? > (and not at 5 mA ?) > That would explain the huge back current pulses inside the first > Newman motor when the coil is opened ! > YES, you are finally starting to understand. The coil current will vary in its attempt to hold the flux flowing through its winding at a constant level. The effect of a moving ferromagnetic material and its domain generated magnetic field is what it is all about. > >> energy at this moment ! You just converted the potential magnetical > >> coil energy back to moving kinetic energy of the ferrite ! But you did > >> not win anything !?? > > > >Wrong. The ferrite has increased kinetic energy and the power supply > >has done > >less work and the coil energy is constant. > > Hmm, yes, but the input current into the coil does not go negative > during the approach of the ferrite (magnet). > I verified this when building Newman machines... > The input current is reduced, but still is in the positive direction. Can show you how to make the coil current go negative, but first we still have some theory work to do. > Only when the coil circuit opens, then there is a huge back current flowing > into the battery ! (but this also depends on the commutator > position in the Newman motor, so it depends at which phase angle the PM > inside the Newman coil is at !) > > Could you please elaborate to explain the first Newman machine, > how do you think it worked from your understanding now ? I now how it works. But not now, we MUST get the simple stuff understood first. And not only by you, but by as many as care to know. > > > >Stop trying to make this effect fit Letzian physics. It doesn't > >disagree with > >Letz just because Letz can't explain it. > > hard for me... Was hard for me too. Relearning is never easy. Mother nature's secrets are never won easily. Quick Field has really helped. > >> Yes, I have also observed this effect long ago, when I was building my > >> first Newman-machines in the 80s when I just used a big coil and > >> a reciprocating Permanent magnet inside it, like Newmans reciprocating > > > >So did I and for 5-6 years I have tried to understand what happens. Now > >I > >am telling you and the world. > > Tell us more ! :) > > > > >I don't want this to be buried. The physics are solid. The results can > >be simulated on software that only builds models on our accepted laws of > >physics. > > > >> machine. I once tested it laying at 90 degrees like in your description > >> above and > >> not like Newman´s normal standing configuration, where the magnet just jumps > >> up and down..., so > >> I also saw on my analog Ampere-Meters, that the current to the coil > >> from the Power-supply was reduced, when the PM was pulled at speed into the > >> coil, > >> when I energized the coil with DC Voltage from the powersupply ! > >> I also wondered about that, that the magnet has gained speed and the current > >> decreased > >> at this point , but probably > >> I did not think more about this at this time. > >> > >> Also it was a bit different, cause I had no steady current flow inside the > >> coil, but the current just started to increase inside the coil. > >> But when the magnet then > >> moved into the coil ,the normal 1-e^-t/RL coil current curve was not anymore > >> this way, > >> but was more like a linear or even x^2 increase, thus a reduced input > >> current was flowing > >> inside the coil as the magnet gained speed and was "sucked" into the coil. > >> > >> I wondered about it at this time, but thought, okay, that was Lenz law > >> action and concluded, this way also the stored energy inside the coil was > >> reduced, > >> so I did not keep any attention to it anymore.. > >> > >> Well, now here are the big 2 questions: > >> > >> 1. Does this effect just convert the stored > >> magnetic energy of the coil back to moving kinetic energy and the > conservation > >> of energy law is still valid , or is the total of moving kinetic energy > plus the > >> reduced potential magnetic coil energy still more than the first inputted > >> electrical energy to produce the potential magnetic coil field ? > > > >Forget the inputed energy for the moment, I will address it later. Just > >understand that the coil's energy stays constant, the rod's kinetic > >energy > >increases and the work done by the power supply is reduced. > > Okay, but where is the overunity in this example ? Over unity is only possible when we know ALL the requirements. Send me the physical data on your proposed generator. Will simulate and suggest mods to achieve the Watson Effect and make it possible to run over unity. > >I did state earlier that any over unity device would need to see some of > >the normal energy flows reversed. Starting to understand??? > > Please explain, maybe I am too blind today to see it ! > It is also early in the morning over here and I have to finsih to write > a test report and I am tired... > > > > >> 2. Does this only depend on the materials used and coil wire configuration, > >> what Newman preaches ?? > > > >Somewhat, see my latest post on buried/edge magnet/coil configs for more > >clues to the puzzle. > > Well, it seems, we have to build the Brown Ecklin flux switch differently > than we thought of, if your simulation is right... > Will help. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 05:32:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA25235; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:31:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 05:31:51 -0800 Message-ID: <32DA3452.505B@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:40:42 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? References: <3.0.32.19970112232006.0098b2cc@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8qpBb1.0.6A6.2bZso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1371 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > I can't ignore Stefan's argument; You pump 10 ma through the coil, attract > a ferrite in the hole, and get only 5 ma back but increase ferrite's momentum. Try this. Tell me which line you have a problem with. We have a ferrite rod 10 mm from an electromagnet which is connected to a power supply. The coil current is 10 ma with nothing moving. The magnet has a North pole facing the rod. The rod has a domain induced South pole facing the magnet due to the rod's domains aligning with the magnet's flux. The flux flowing in the magnet is greater with the rod near by than if the rod were not present. The flux flowing through the magnet is the sum of the magnet's own flux plus the flux generated by the near by ferrite rod. The rod is attracted to the magnet due to the magnets North pole and the rod's induced South pole. The ferrite rod is now released and a snap shot is taken when the rod is 9 mm from the magnet. As the distance between the rod and the coil has decreased to 9 mm, the flux flowing through the coil will increase due to the rod's magnetic field being closer to the magnet. The coil will sense an increasing magnetic field flowing through it and attempt to hold the flux flowing through the coil constant. To hold the flux flowing through the coil constant, the coil must reduce it's own magnetic field To do so the coil's increasing field will generate a reverse EMF into the power supply. This reverse EMF will, in effect, reduce the voltage applied to the coil and reduce the current flowing through the coil. The coil supplied flux will drop to a value, which when summed with the greater flux from the now closer rod, will equal the previous flux at 10 mm. The flux flowing through the coil at 9 mm is now the same as at 10 mm. The rod has gained kinetic energy due to the attractive forced applied as it moved from 10 mm away to 9 mm away. The power supply has done less work due to the reverse EMF generated by the increasing flux from the approaching ferrite rod reducing current consumption. The coil flux, (it's stored energy) is constant. You and Stephan MUST understand ALL of this before we go further. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 06:16:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA21124; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:10:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:10:25 -0800 X-Sender: bailey@best.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:10:48 -0800 To: neotech@xbn.shore.net, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: pgb@padrak.com (Patrick Bailey) Subject: INE Web Site Updated Jan. 12, 1997 Resent-Message-ID: <"xB5A12.0.z95.V_Tso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1360 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The Institute for New Energy Web Site has been updated at: http://www.padrak.com/ine/ ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Date Included Additions, Expansions, or Revisions ------------- ------------------------------------------------------------ Jan. 12. 1997 Added: What we know on the "Stevens Device." Added: NEN TOC Vol. 4, No. 9, January 1997. New Energy Scientists of the Year, 1996 The New-Energy Year In Review Anti-Gravity From Finland (No Doubts About It) Over-Unity Motor Design, by Harold Aspden - Book Review The People List and Organization List pages. Most entries and addresses are awaiting approval from each person via return mailings. Updated: Websites, Authors, Subjects, Announcements, Commercial Sources and Information Sources pages. Changed: Bad link pointers in all NEN TOC files (INE8*'s); INE_REVS changed to REVISIONS. Site Counter = 56,817. Dr. Patrick G. Bailey President, Institute for New Energy http://www.padrak.com/ine/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 08:15:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA22943; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:19:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:19:43 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112232006.0098b2cc@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 23:20:08 -0800 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"8Khg-.0.Fc5.A8Uso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1361 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I can't ignore Stefan's argument; You pump 10mA through the coil, attract a ferrite in the hole, and get only 5ma back but increase ferrite's momentum. How about idealizing this situation. Use ideal (ie. superconductive coil). Charge it up with 10mA and disconnect the power supply. The current in the coil will persist without the power supply because there is no resistance to dissipate it. Now the ferrite is attracted into the hole in the coil and the coil current DECREASES to 5ma but the ferrite gains mechanical momentum. (unless you claim the current is INCREASED to 15mA instead ?) I can't help but draw the conclusion that the missing 5mA was spent on increasing the ferrite's momentum. Am I missing something ? At 06:57 AM 1/13/97 +0100, you wrote: >>Stefan Hartmann wrote: >>> >>> Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic >>> energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving >>> ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic >>> field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the >>> ferrite moves >>> into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might just >only >>> draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic >> >>Wrong, The coil energy is constant. The current reduced because the >>approaching >>ferrite's aligned domains added their own field to the coil's field. >>Thats >>why the coil current drops. The increasing field is generating back emf >>into >>the power supply. I repeat, the coil energy is constant. > >So do you mean, when the coil is then switched off (circuit opened), >it still has the same energy as if the current would still be at 10 mA ? >(and not at 5 mA ?) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 08:47:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA31745; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:45:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:45:49 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:44:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970113112713_440640539@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, max@triode.net.au Subject: Re : Re: Magnistor testing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.2395.emout02.mail.aol.com.853172833" Resent-Message-ID: <"Q8se82.0.sl7.xQcso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1372 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.2395.emout02.mail.aol.com.853172833 Content-ID: <0_2395_853172833@emout02.mail.aol.com.35679> Content-type: text/plain >From : Jean-Louis To : Maxwell On 13/01/1997 12:21:06, you wrote : << Thank you for the lab notes. I see from your figures that you have obtained approx less that 5.5 milliWatts of o/p into 100 ohms. As I see it, what you need to do now, in order to show some o/u effect, is to prove that the increase in input power does not exceed this value. Also I would like to see the effect of L2/L3 on the o/p coil with no magnet and with the 100 ohms load. Maxwell. >> Dear Maxwell, I have made new measures according you request above, you have in the attached document the scope signal on L1 with 100 ohms load, without magnet ( it is the latest picture at the end of this document). Please give me your comments and feed-back about my Magnistor 1.0 device. I work today, on a more sophisticated device (Magnistor V 2.0) which work with an electronic high voltage switching power supply..... Nice to speak with you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin JNaudin509@aol.com --PART.BOUNDARY.0.2395.emout02.mail.aol.com.853172833 Content-ID: <0_2395_853172833@emout02.mail.aol.com.35680> Content-type: image/gif; name="MGSTRPT2.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlh4QHgA4AAAAAAAP///ywAAAAA4QHgAwAC+4yPqcvtD6OctNqLs968+w+G4kiW5omm 6sq27gvH8kzX9o3n+s73/g8MCofEovGITCqXzKbzyQMAoNSq9YplSKdZzLYLDotN37FkyzWr 1+yI1JtOvJHoucbezuuJ+ElZ8dfR9zB4xlVYgbi3yGiDBlhYBxl4EFdpV/eIkJbZCaFpYGlB qUXaeIr6QQm6yRoqeinaOfv65bnpFghLYSonmQocfDfrGjCH12u8SmxJfNmACKpouFsbK4yd nZv57Pva6uBq+xt72DzI7Rs3/ZnMyq4dHxwty2kvp+7del5tenv9LQO5SfrkGYxHD1I3ZQWV ncu3Dxo6TPymJNum+2jiwY3ZEhak2HAZxH2wJiJblw6OxV2k4HF8ucYjuIAMAdZCOZKkQnU4 y7kM90bmTJhEF9F72O0kSpAEF7yrh/TmRV6RSlYrijVMxqWelJI053TayaY2x/0kVDVs1rVS u2z1+Yvi2GNWr9a8a3OhXLvb1AJiS8Mc33bMChs+7LafPU10V/4ZRzMiULA5aXrdoMtxQ8Au aA07XJihWanFqPS6bPmRXIf+MvdsibrPVIkOy+E9mxX0qNAXUnLGGzJq7duC6z5ezTrn2MrU 4gpe+BscaHaNmfUe+Pst9OE7U3Md+I873OWbm28tTWf6MdYrjbGHLM36ZJYpyfvB/J5d8VBr 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y4xLsPxMKQrNsSJNssTC0TzNKygAACH+5VRoaXMgZmlsZSB3YXMgY3JlYXRlZCBieSAgICAN DUdyYXBoaWMgV29ya3Nob3AgZm9yIFdpbmRvd3MgMS4xbQ0NZnJvbSBBbGNoZW15IE1pbmR3 b3JrcyBJbmMuDVAuTy4gQm94IDUwMA1CZWV0b24sIE9udGFyaW8NTDBHIDFBMCBDQU5BREEN DVRoaXMgaW1hZ2UgbWF5IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBjcmVhdGVkIGJ5DWEgcGFydHkgb3RoZXIgdGhh biBBbGNoZW15IE1pbmR3b3JrcyBJbmMuDQ1Vc2Ugbm8gaG9va3MAOw== --PART.BOUNDARY.0.2395.emout02.mail.aol.com.853172833-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 09:15:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA27539; Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:04:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:04:20 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970112190440.00970ed0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 19:04:41 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"343g02.0.pj6.mOQso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1353 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:37 PM 1/13/97 +1030, you wrote: >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >> >> Could it just not be, that you just have converted the potential magnetic >> energy stored inside your coil as 0.5LI^2 into kinetic energy of the moving >> ferrite ?? First you have to input the 0.5LI^2 to generate the magnetic >> field inside the coil. Then say, at e.g. 10 mA it is stable and then the >> ferrite moves >> into the tube. As you switch off the current at this moment it might just only >> draw 5 mA from the powersupply, so the coil has a lower stored magnetic > >Wrong, The coil energy is constant. The current reduced because the >approaching >ferrite's aligned domains added their own field to the coil's field. >Thats >why the coil current drops. The increasing field is generating back emf >into >the power supply. I repeat, the coil energy is constant. Ok. Greg this is the way I understand it: If an ideal coil is energized with an electrical current the coil will develop a magnetic dipole and the flux will "travel" from the N pole to the S pole of the coil. No matter how we guide the flux from the N to S pole the energy of the coil will remain constant. The energy of the coil is INDEPENDENT from the shape of the flux lines. The only way to change energy in this "energized coil" system is to introduce a FOREIGN source of flux. This foreign (external) flux can come from an external permanent magnet, another energized coil, moving conductor etc. Your big point is that a ferromagnetic material's magnetic domains also act as this foreign source of magnetic flux and that is the real cause of the current change in the coil. If the ONLY function of the ferrite was to redirect the coil's flux without consuming magnetic energy for the ferromagnetic domain alignment, THE current in the coil would NOT change as the ferromagnetic moves near (or inside) the coil. Unfortunately the process of flux redirecting is linked to the domain alignment ! Do I have it right ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 09:48:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA14134; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:46:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:46:49 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:48:21 +0100 Message-Id: <199701131748.SAA22632@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Understanding Newmam machine and DNMEC principle now ! Cc: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, newman-l@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"MI6r_3.0.QS3.vJdso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1373 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >I can't ignore Stefan's argument; You pump 10mA through the coil, attract >a ferrite in the hole, and get only 5ma back but increase ferrite's= momentum. > >How about idealizing this situation. > >Use ideal (ie. superconductive coil). Charge it up with 10mA and >disconnect the power supply. The current in the coil will persist without >the power supply because there is no resistance to dissipate it. Now the >ferrite is attracted into the hole in the coil and the coil current >DECREASES to 5ma but the ferrite gains mechanical momentum. (unless you >claim the current is INCREASED to 15mA instead ?) No, the drop to 5 mA is REAL ! This is what the Ampere-Meter will read ! >I can't help but draw the conclusion that the missing 5mA was spent on >increasing the ferrite's momentum. Am I missing something ? No ! Now I see Greg=B4s new ideas ! He says, even in this case the stored magnetic energy of the coils stays the same !=20 So if you would open the superconductive coil at the moment when the accelerated ferrite has max. speed inside the coil, the coil would still have a stored energy of W=3D0.5LI^2 and the coil current I in Amperes would still have to be calculated with 10 mA, although the current just dropped to 5 mA due to the induced back EMF of the moving ferrite. If you open this superconductive coil and have a neon tube accross its connections, the energy released in the flash would be equal to=20 having just a coil with 10 mA of current and no moving ferrite at all= nearby.... So here it is where you win: You need less less energy input to the coil, get kinetic movement energy of the ferrite and still can "discharge" the coil at a higher energy output than the flowing current would predict ! The same thing exactly happens in all big Newman motors ! I guess it depends on the induced "influenced" magnetic fields inside the=20 attracted ferrite ! This induced magnetism is also shut down as soon as the coil is opened and this stored energy is transferred to electrical HV pulse inside the coil via induction, so the induction discharge pulse of the coil is really as big, as if still 10 mA would flow inside the coil ! (but indeed only 5 mA are just flowing...) Or see it this way, the Inductance of the coil has just risen, due to the ferrite is now inside the coil and this also affects the formular: W=3D0.5LI^2 and makes the output higher ! Greg, I bet I have now understood all your new ideas ! Now it is pretty easy to see, how to optimize a Newman- motor or a flux gateing device. Just store as much energy inside the attracted ferrite via influenced induction of domain allignment as you can=20 and release it to an induction pulse, when it is inside the coil !=20 The energy required to do so is minimal, if you design the coil and the dimensions of the ferrite right... and use the right ferrite material ! Align as many domains in the attrated ferrite as you can (this is your DNMEC) and then discharge=20 them all into the coil, when you open the coil commutator switch ! And you gain a lot of mechanical kinetic energy of the ferrite too ! I am still wondering, if it is better to use at all a PM instead of just a ferrite, which is attracted into the coil ? Any comments ? Am I right or am I wrong ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 10:09:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA20552; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:08:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:08:43 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:09:53 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: CORROBORATIVE INFO FROM THE JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, NEOTECH@xbn.shore.net Resent-Message-ID: <"AF50Z.0.v05.cedso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1374 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >At 5:11 AM 1/13/97, Evan Soule wrote: >>Repost: for benefit of new members --- >> >>CORROBORATIVE INFO FROM THE JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS >> >>IT COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT A RESEARCH REPORT PUBLISHED IN THE JOURNAL OF >>APPLIED PHYSICS (Volume 77, Issue 11, June 1, 1995, pages 6015-6020) >>PUBLISHED BY THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF PHYSICS, further validates the >>pioneering work of inventor Joseph Newman. >> >>TITLE: >>Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a Resonance Circuit of Unconventional >>Magnetic Configuration >[snip] >> ---snip >flux and the induced EMF caused by Faraday's law are independent phenomena, >was given to: > G. Cohn, Electrical Eng. 68, 441 (1949), > P. Moon, and D. Spencer, J. Franklin Institute 260, 23 (1955) > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner Dear Mr. Heffner, Thanks for your note. As I would imagine you're aware, the point of the posting of the article from the Journal is that it is Joe's position that the 'anomalous' data referred to above represents corroboration of the concepts published (1984) in his book based upon his research on (electro)magnetism over the past several decades. Thanks again for your information. Best regards, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 10:41:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA29610; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:39:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:39:46 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:41:57 +0100 Message-Id: <199701131841.TAA22922@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Understanding Newmam machine and DNMEC principle now ! Cc: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, newman-l@emachine.com, ralph.hartwell@emachine.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net Resent-Message-ID: <"2Ninm3.0.tD7.c5eso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have added a few new ideas of modifying Newman machines to get a better output at the end of this email ! Have a look ! >I can't ignore Stefan's argument; You pump 10mA through the coil, attract >a ferrite in the hole, and get only 5ma back but increase ferrite's= momentum. > >How about idealizing this situation. > >Use ideal (ie. superconductive coil). Charge it up with 10mA and >disconnect the power supply. The current in the coil will persist without >the power supply because there is no resistance to dissipate it. Now the >ferrite is attracted into the hole in the coil and the coil current >DECREASES to 5ma but the ferrite gains mechanical momentum. (unless you >claim the current is INCREASED to 15mA instead ?) No, the drop to 5 mA is REAL ! This is what the Ampere-Meter will read ! >I can't help but draw the conclusion that the missing 5mA was spent on >increasing the ferrite's momentum. Am I missing something ? No ! Now I see Greg=B4s new ideas ! He says, even in this case the stored magnetic energy of the coils stays the same !=20 So if you would open the superconductive coil at the moment when the accelerated ferrite has max. speed inside the coil, the coil would still have a stored energy of W=3D0.5LI^2 and the coil current I in Amperes would still have to be calculated with 10 mA, although the current just dropped to 5 mA due to the induced back EMF of the moving ferrite. If you open this superconductive coil and have a neon tube accross its connections, the energy released in the flash would be equal to=20 having just a coil with 10 mA of current and no moving ferrite at all= nearby.... So here it is where you win: You need less less energy input to the coil, get kinetic movement energy of the ferrite and still can "discharge" the coil at a higher energy output than the flowing current would predict ! The same thing exactly happens in all big Newman motors ! I guess it depends on the induced "influenced" magnetic fields inside the=20 attracted ferrite ! This induced magnetism is also shut down as soon as the coil is opened and this stored energy is transferred to electrical HV pulse inside the coil via induction, so the induction discharge pulse of the coil is really as big, as if still 10 mA would flow inside the coil ! (but indeed only 5 mA are just flowing...) Or see it this way, the Inductance L of the coil has just risen, due to the ferrite is now inside the coil and this also affects the formular: W=3D0.5LI^2 and makes the output higher ! Greg, I bet I have now understood all your new ideas ! Now it is pretty easy to see, how to optimize a Newman- motor or a flux gateing device. Just store as much energy inside the attracted ferrite via influenced induction of domain allignment as you can=20 and release it to an induction pulse, when it is inside the coil !=20 The energy required to do so is minimal, if you design the coil and the dimensions of the ferrite right... and use the right ferrite material ! Align as many domains in the attrated ferrite as you can (this is your DNMEC) and then discharge=20 them all into the coil, when you open the coil commutator switch ! And you gain a lot of mechanical kinetic energy of the ferrite too ! I am still wondering, if it is better to use at all a PM instead of just a ferrite, which is attracted into the coil ? Here are a few new comments about the Newman devices: So far I have understood it this way: Newman doesn=B4t need to build the coils as huge as possible, but just should use huge dimension ferrite material inside his machines to have maximal influenced atom alignment for magnet domains inside the=20 ferrite material ! Then when one switches OFF the relatively small coil with a huge ferrite core inside it, probably the neon tubes will explode due to the immense HV back pulse. So Joe can you hear me ? Try it with huge rods of ferrite material in your biggest coil ! Do you still have your first big motor in your Workshop in Lucedale ? Just place it full of ferrite material and thus create a huge electromagnet and pulse this on and off. Be cautious ! These induction voltage HV spikes could kill you ! They should have enormous energy output. But probably it would need to move inside the coil, so do it like your reciprocating device but with just a huger ferrite inner rod. So you can keep the coil size pretty small compared to the ferrite rod size and have to use less copper wire which reduces cost ! If this works, I want 5 % royalities ! :) Donate another 5 % to Greg ! He has led us to the right way ! :) Any comments ? Am I right or am I wrong ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 10:42:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA29846; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:40:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:40:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:41:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199701131841.TAA22919@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: New Newman machine building advices ! Cc: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, josephnewman@earthlink.net Resent-Message-ID: <"NO1Xk.0.UH7.86eso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Can show you how to make the coil current go negative, but first we >still >have some theory work to do. Not easy possible with a Newman design, but probably otherway possible. Newman=B4s current goes only negative, when you open the coil ! >Over unity is only possible when we know ALL the requirements. > >Send me the physical data on your proposed generator. Will simulate >and suggest mods to achieve the Watson Effect and make it possible >to run over unity. I will now overthink the magnetic flux switch based on the ideas, I have just understand and let you know. Here are a few new comments about the Newman devices: So far I have understood it this way: Newman doesn=B4t need to build the coils as huge as possible, but just should use huge dimension ferrite material inside his machines to have maximal influenced atom alignment for magnet domains inside the=20 ferrite material ! Then when one switches OFF the relatively small coil with a huge ferrite core inside it, probably the neon tubes will explode due to the immense HV back pulse. So Joe can you hear me ? Try it with huge rods of ferrite material in your biggest coil ! Do you still have your first big motor in your Workshop in Lucedale ? Just place it full of ferrite material and thus create a huge electromagnet and pulse this on and off. Be cautious ! These induction voltage HV spikes could kill you ! They should have enormous energy output. But probably it would need to move inside the coil, so do it like your reciprocating device but with just a huger ferrite inner rod. So you can keep the coil size pretty small compared to the ferrite rod size and have to use less copper wire which reduces cost ! If this works, I want 5 % royalities ! :) Donate another 5 % to Greg ! He has led us to the right way ! :) Any comments ? Am I right or am I wrong ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 11:07:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA03685; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:06:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:06:38 -0800 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:54:10 +0000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970112133234_1757766519@emout08.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 1.11 <5asEvod5709R6741eo9wbh3aEa> Resent-Message-ID: <"QydUu3.0.Tv.yUeso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In message <970112133234_1757766519@emout08.mail.aol.com>, AdamGrosmn@aol.com writes >>>>>Would you care to elaborate? Don't see what the coriolis effect would >have >to do with the topography of the universe.>>>> > >He said that the paper clip would spin, and that this spin is caused my the >rotation of the universe. Not at all...it's caused my the spin of the Earth! > Or even that the string that it's hanging on has a tendency to untwist that way!! -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 12:11:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA01593; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:09:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:09:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32DAFDEF.79D9@netcomuk.co.uk> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:30:55 -0800 From: Rob King X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-NC260 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Free Energy - Part 9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3SJJA2.0.0O.WPfso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1378 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Date: 13th Jan, 1997 Time 19:28 GMT Dear All, Wesly crosiar wrote: > > Rob: GREAT POST; Question? > Did you use the loading coil on the tate antenna that you built, the > information I have been shown, shows almost four hundred turns on a three > inch piece of pvc. > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES I have built the Joseph Tate Type V. device which uses 12 IN34 diodes, 6 0.2 uF caps, 6 50uF elec.caps, an antenna and an earth connection. If you have the plans for a better device please post it and I will build it straight away and give you the results straight back. I have some acrylic rod which should serve the purpose for the loading coil former. I have plenty of diodes and I can build the whole thing on some block board, that way I can swap some component values when testing it to get maximum output. I found a small motor out of an old personal cassette player the other day and it was rated at 2.1 volts. When I tested it on a single 1.2 volt nicad cell I could get it to run quite fast at 24 milliamps current at 1.2 volts so my home made Adams Motor using 24 milliwatts does not seem so good after all. Regards Rob King Email address: ROBK@netcomuk.co.uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 12:49:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA12962; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:49:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:49:32 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 23:39:28 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Time as Inertia Lines: 58 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"d0lI53.0.RA3.O_fso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1379 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Inertia and Time copyright by Alexander V. Frolov Some time ago Prof. of Math. Dr. Alexander Abian rised the discussion in Internet about Mass & Time equivalence. I have a short remark on this very interesting topic that is based on the question: Which type of mass is connected with a Time: gravitational or inertional? My suppositions are: Gravitational mass by some concepts is a result of pressure from an Ether to the body, since pressure from its other side is screened by Earth, for example. Inertial mass can be considered as a result of force that change the velocity of the body ( value or vector of velocity). Correlation between time notion and helical rotation is known from ancients sciences. In some modern Kozyrev's experiments with gyroscope created periodical helical motion of mass from its rotational motion by means of vibration pulses in gyroscope axis line. Dr.Kozyrev detected change of energy of system. It is depend of left or right type of rotation from the point of view of vibrator. Note: without vibrator that produce linear shift of gyroscope there is no difference in "left" and "right" since from one side it is left type but from other side it is right type. Direction of linear shift along axis of rotation introduce a single-sense left or right rotation notion. So, if gravitational mass can be explained without rotation effects like a linear (like electrostatic and Newton's forces) interaction, the inertial mass can be explained by means of non-linear interaction when the force between interacting bodies is not directed along a line that connect the bodies. This effect is discovered by Ersted. An asymmetrical electrodynamics by Kozyrev's opinion must be a technology for utilization of energy of "motion in a time" for production of power in a load or for propulsion force. Some conclusions: Weight is zero in a frame of accelerated moving box to the Earth. Note, it is linear motion that just compensate pressure of Ether to the top of body by means of equal pressure from the other side of the body. But inertial mass is not compensated here and time of this system is the same like in a frame of the Earth. In mechanics there are not phenomenons to produce a non-Newton's forces, i.e. all forces in mechanics are directed along of a line that connect bodies. The same is working in electrostatics. But people have a way to produce a time motion compensation from 1820 thank to Hans Ersted discovery. Sankt-Petersburg 13 Jan. 1997 --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 13:27:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21564; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:27:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:27:31 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:29:14 +0100 Message-Id: <199701132129.WAA23810@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Negative input current into Newman motor ! Cc: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, josephnewman@earthlink.net, ralph.hartwell@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"TE_o93.0.dG5._Ygso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1380 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: One way to get a negative input current during the normal contact phase of the commutator is the following setup: Use Newman=B4s reciprocating setup, where there is a PM inside the coil. If you energize the coil with a constant DC Voltage ,=20 it should lift the PM out of the coil to the top versus the gravity. Now the PM has won potential energy because it has won height. Now the commutator opens and the coil is discharged via the neon bulbs. Now the flux field of the coil is gone and the PM falls down again into the coil and then the commutator again closes the contact ! Just now at this moment the down-moving PM=B4s kinetic energy in converted into a negative input current, cause at this time, the motor works in "generator" mode ! If the PM has lots of weight, it could take a while, til the input current into the coil goes again above zero into the positive input current area ! I have verified this in my first Newman machine model, I build in the 80s ! There are still a few input current pics at my WEB site: www.overunity.de/newman.htm Another way to get negative input current is to move the phase angle of the commutator in Newman=B4s big first rotating motors to a different phase angle. So when the commutator makes contact again after a 180 degree rotation, there the rotating magnet pushes via induction EMF charge back into the battery and works for a few degrees of rotation as a generator charging back the battery. This is well documented for the first Newman machines ! There were huge back current spikes ! Comments ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 13:53:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA27365; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:52:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:52:21 -0800 Message-ID: <32DAA3F4.5EB4@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:37:00 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Stefan Hartmann Subject: Re: Understanding Newmam machine and DNMEC principle now ! References: <199701131748.SAA22632@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m21CZ.0.Eh6.Gwgso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1381 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > No ! Now I see Greg´s new ideas ! > > He says, even in this case the stored magnetic energy of the coils stays > the same ! > > If you open this superconductive coil and have a neon tube accross its > connections, the energy released in the flash would be equal to > having just a coil with 10 mA of current and no moving ferrite at all nearby.... > > So here it is where you win: > > You need less less energy input to the coil, get kinetic movement energy > of the ferrite and still can "discharge" the coil at a higher energy > output than the flowing current would predict ! > > The same thing exactly happens in all big Newman motors ! > > I guess it depends on the induced "influenced" magnetic fields inside the > attracted ferrite ! This induced magnetism is also shut down as soon as the > coil is opened and this stored energy is transferred to electrical HV pulse > inside the coil via induction, so the induction discharge pulse of the coil > is really as big, as if still 10 mA would flow inside the coil ! > (but indeed only 5 mA are just flowing...) > > Or see it this way, the Inductance of the coil has just risen, due > to the ferrite is now inside the coil and this also affects the formular: > W=0.5LI^2 and makes the output higher ! > > Greg, I bet I have now understood all your new ideas ! > Now it is pretty easy to see, how to optimize a Newman- > motor or a flux gateing device. > > Just store as much energy inside the attracted ferrite > via influenced induction of domain allignment as you can > and release it to an induction pulse, when it is inside > the coil ! > The energy required to do so is minimal, if you > design the coil and the dimensions of the ferrite right... > and use the right ferrite material ! Align as many domains in the attrated > ferrite as you can (this is your DNMEC) and then discharge > them all into the coil, when you open the coil commutator switch ! > And you gain a lot of mechanical kinetic energy of the ferrite too ! > > I am still wondering, if it is better to use at all a PM instead > of just a ferrite, which is attracted into the coil ? > > Any comments ? Am I right or am I wrong ? Getting very warm although there is still much more fully understand how to get good Over Unity performance. Good thinking Stephan. Interesting that nothing voilates Letz! -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 13:53:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA27484; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:52:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:52:50 -0800 Message-ID: <32DAA95A.3675@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:00:02 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Stefan Hartmann Subject: Re: New Newman machine building advices ! References: <199701131841.TAA22919@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iq91v.0.oi6.ewgso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1382 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >Can show you how to make the coil current go negative, but first we > >still > >have some theory work to do. > > Not easy possible with a Newman design, but probably otherway possible. > Newman´s current goes only negative, when you open the coil ! > > >Over unity is only possible when we know ALL the requirements. > > > >Send me the physical data on your proposed generator. Will simulate > >and suggest mods to achieve the Watson Effect and make it possible > >to run over unity. > > I will now overthink the magnetic flux switch based on the ideas, I have > just understand and let you know. > > Here are a few new comments about the Newman devices: > > So far I have understood it this way: > Newman doesn´t need to build the coils as huge as possible, but just > should use huge dimension ferrite material inside his machines > to have maximal influenced atom alignment for magnet domains inside the > ferrite material ! > Then when one switches OFF the relatively small coil with a huge > ferrite core inside it, probably the neon tubes will explode > due to the immense HV back pulse. So Joe can you hear me ? > > Try it with huge rods of ferrite material in your biggest coil ! > > Do you still have your first big motor in your Workshop in Lucedale ? > Just place it full of ferrite material and thus create a huge > electromagnet and pulse this on and off. > Be cautious ! These induction voltage HV spikes could kill you ! > They should have enormous energy output. > But probably it would need to move inside the coil, so do it > like your reciprocating device but with just a huger ferrite > inner rod. So you can keep the coil size pretty small compared > to the ferrite rod size and have to use less copper wire > which reduces cost ! > > If this works, I want 5 % royalities ! :) > Donate another 5 % to Greg ! He has led us to the right way ! :) > > Any comments ? Am I right or am I wrong ? > > Regards, Stefan. > Hi Stephan, The 5% royalty is ok with me. While I can explain Newman's motor, don't get too excited, they are just one class of many. I believe Newman is right in NOT using a ferrite core for his coil. His rotor is a PM and the ferrite core would cause back drag in his design. Also the flux utilization could be much better. Another subject for later discussion and building test rigs. Another point you need to think about. The reverse current flow occurs then the coil is CONNECTED to the power source due to the movement of the magnet (It's domains are stiff). More about this later. You still need to understand my line by line description of the ferrite rod moving 1 mm example. There is more, much more to understand to FULLY utilize DNMEC in a working generator. One clue. A DNMEC generator will self run due to the internal energy flows. But not yet. Lets get the basic DNMEC principles fully understood by ALL. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 13:54:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA27552; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:52:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:52:58 -0800 Message-ID: <32DAAA63.3DB9@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:04:27 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy Subject: Re: DNMEC --> will it be 5mA or 15mA ? References: <3.0.32.19970113113543.0097b6cc@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kmqcT3.0.tj6.kwgso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1383 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > 5mA sure is LESS than 10mA IF it is delivered for the same amount of time. > > However using the t=L/R relation. > > the 5mA through the coil actually represents the same amount of energy as > the previous 10mA because if we were to dissipate the 5mA (while the > ferrite is in the coil), the 5mA current would last for a longer time > because of the increased coil inductance. Additionally we are getting > kinetic energy of the ferrite for free. Correct ? > Correct. > BTW: Did you get my scenario without the power supply (ie using a > superconductive coil) ? > I am including it at the end in case you didn't. > Yes, Have replied. > At 08:24 PM 1/13/97 +0100, you wrote: > >> > >>Dear Stefan. > >> > >>Could you analyze this idealized hypothetical scenario and reply with 5mA, > >>10mA or 15mA? > > > >The coil current will be 5 ma ! This will the reading show > >when you put an Amperemeter into the coil at this time ! > > > > > >But the coil inductance L has also dramatically increased, > >thus W=.5LI^2 is still big ! > > > >So far so clear ?? > > > >Regards, Stefan. > >-- > > >>> > > How about idealizing this situation and eliminating the external power > supply for simplicity of analysis. > > Use ideal (ie. superconductive coil). Charge it up with 10mA and > *disconnect* the power supply totally. At this point, the 10mA current in > the coil will persist forever without the power supply because there is no > resistance to dissipate it. Now, the ferrite is attracted into the hole > in the coil and the coil current DECREASES to 5ma but the ferrite gains > mechanical momentum. We just bought the ferrite's momentum with the 5mA > current loss from the coil. No energy gain here. > > Do you claim the coil current is INCREASED to 15mA or stays at 10mA instead ? > If you do, than you may have something here ! Hi Epitxay, Hang in there it is going to get very interesting soon. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 13:54:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA27603; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:53:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 13:53:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32DAAD4A.7B05@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:16:50 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy Subject: Re: Understanding Newmam machine and DNMEC principle now ! References: <3.0.32.19970113115244.0097b71c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XF-tz.0.ak6.pwgso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1384 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Aaarghhh. ! > > In the example below there is NO power supply and therefore NO 5mA drop of > the power supply's current. > > If the 5mA drop in the supply current is due to current induced in THE > SAME direction (as the already flowing 10mA) than the 5mA should add to the > 10mA in the superconductor example. Correct ? > > At 07:41 PM 1/13/97 +0100, you wrote: > > >>Epitaxy wrote: > > >>How about idealizing this situation and eliminating the external power > supply for simplicity of > >>analysis. > > >>Use ideal (ie. superconductive coil). Charge it up with 10mA and > *disconnect* the power > >>supply totally. At this point, the 10mA current in the coil will persist > forever without the > >>power supply because there is no resistance to dissipate it. Now, the > ferrite is attracted into > >>the hole in the coil and the coil current DECREASES to 5ma but the > ferrite gains mechanical > >>momentum. We just bought the ferrite's momentum with the 5mA current > loss from the coil. > >>No energy gain here. Wrong, the energy stored in the coil's magnetic field is constant. The reason the coil current has gone down is that the ferrite's aligned domain generated field has added to the coils field resulting in a total increase of field energy. The coil will resist this by generating a emf (voltage) which will resist the current now flowing. The result is the coil current dropping to 5ma, the energy stored in the field staying constant and the ferrite rod having increased kinetic energy. Nice effect, yes? > > >>Do you claim the coil current is INCREASED to 15mA or stays at 10mA > instead ? > >>If you do, than you may have something here ! The current will drop to 5ma as above. > >No, the drop to 5 mA is REAL ! This is what the Ampere-Meter will read ! Hi Epitxay, Try to think beyond Letz. Beyond the square. Look at my step by step example of the 1mm rod movement. Each step is inside conventional physics. Understand each step in your mind, then the final result is not so hard to swallow. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 14:53:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA09099; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:52:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:52:47 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:54:28 +0100 Message-Id: <199701132254.XAA24141@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Understanding Newman machine and DNMEC principle now ! Cc: epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"dHH4l1.0._D2.xohso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1385 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> Any comments ? Am I right or am I wrong ? >=20 >Getting very warm although there is still much more fully understand how >to get good Over Unity performance. Good thinking Stephan. Interesting >that nothing voilates Letz! Is it not spelled Lenz ??? Well, what do you think of using a very big rod for a Newman reciprocating device, which is pulled into the coil and uses the induced magnetic atom alignment to release induction power to the coil, when the coil is switched off ? I will soon download myself the QuickField software and play with it myself, before we will build the magnetic flux switch. Dieter Bauer is still on holidays and when he will be back I will simulate it first with him and if you also can send me some advices and a few Gifs again, we can retry this over here. Have not yet totally understood your flux path summing examples... Can you please further explain, why there is a difference between placing the coil and magnet into the gap or otherwise into the core ? Which DNMEC device would you propose to build first ? a magnetic flux switch or maybe a reciprocating big Newman "electromagnet" pulling a big ferrite rod into a coil ? I still have this big coil downstairs in my cellar from my last Newman machine ! Maybe I should get a big ferrite rod and try it placing it into the coil on a spring and pulse DC to the coil and pulling this way the rod into the coil ? Maybe the HV induction pulses when the commutator opens will be very big this way ?? What do you think ? What is the best and easiest machine setup you can think of ? It must be something, that induces lots of back EMF into the coil, so the normal input current is low, so either you have to move a ferrite fast or have a big rod ! Also the inductance L has to change a lot so the energy W of the coil still stays huge when the current Ampere I falls. Best would be to use the produced kinetic energy of the rod to propell something and feed this energy back into the system. I guess it is 100 % important to open the coil circuit to release the DNMEC energy and produce electrical output energy ? Or could that be avoided to be safe of huge HV spikes ?? What do you think ? This is one of the most important questions, how to release the DNMEC energy without having to "flash" the coil=B4s energy... Is it at all possible ? Please let me know your view on it. Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 15:16:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA03685; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:06:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:06:38 -0800 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:54:10 +0000 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970112133234_1757766519@emout08.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 1.11 <5asEvod5709R6741eo9wbh3aEa> Resent-Message-ID: <"QydUu3.0.Tv.yUeso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1377 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In message <970112133234_1757766519@emout08.mail.aol.com>, AdamGrosmn@aol.com writes >>>>>Would you care to elaborate? Don't see what the coriolis effect would >have >to do with the topography of the universe.>>>> > >He said that the paper clip would spin, and that this spin is caused my the >rotation of the universe. Not at all...it's caused my the spin of the Earth! > Or even that the string that it's hanging on has a tendency to untwist that way!! -- Chris Morriss From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 15:44:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA20569 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:44:36 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:44:36 -0800 X-Envelope-From: rognerud@best.com Mon Jan 13 15:44:01 1997 Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.13]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA20449; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:43:59 -0800 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id PAA05759; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:36:22 -0800 (PST) Old-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 15:36:21 -0800 (PST) From: Nils Rognerud To: Greg Watson cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Stefan Hartmann Subject: Re: New Newman machine building advices ! In-Reply-To: <32DAA95A.3675@mail.enternet.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: 5% Royality: You guys are amazing! No offense intended, but you don't even have a working protoype!... There is too much talk in this group - like most theoretical scientists. How about building a WORKING model. I may even be interested to invest time and money myself. Stop the talk and build a test. Talk is cheap and the physical universe runs by its own rules, regardless of what we think or say. Just my 10 cents worth - please ignore at will. -Nils On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >=20 > > >Can show you how to make the coil current go negative, but first we > > >still > > >have some theory work to do. > >=20 > > Not easy possible with a Newman design, but probably otherway possible. > > Newman=B4s current goes only negative, when you open the coil ! > >=20 > > >Over unity is only possible when we know ALL the requirements. > > > > > >Send me the physical data on your proposed generator. Will simulate > > >and suggest mods to achieve the Watson Effect and make it possible > > >to run over unity. > >=20 > > I will now overthink the magnetic flux switch based on the ideas, I hav= e > > just understand and let you know. > >=20 > > Here are a few new comments about the Newman devices: > >=20 > > So far I have understood it this way: > > Newman doesn=B4t need to build the coils as huge as possible, but just > > should use huge dimension ferrite material inside his machines > > to have maximal influenced atom alignment for magnet domains inside the > > ferrite material ! > > Then when one switches OFF the relatively small coil with a huge > > ferrite core inside it, probably the neon tubes will explode > > due to the immense HV back pulse. So Joe can you hear me ? > >=20 > > Try it with huge rods of ferrite material in your biggest coil ! > >=20 > > Do you still have your first big motor in your Workshop in Lucedale ? > > Just place it full of ferrite material and thus create a huge > > electromagnet and pulse this on and off. > > Be cautious ! These induction voltage HV spikes could kill you ! > > They should have enormous energy output. > > But probably it would need to move inside the coil, so do it > > like your reciprocating device but with just a huger ferrite > > inner rod. So you can keep the coil size pretty small compared > > to the ferrite rod size and have to use less copper wire > > which reduces cost ! > >=20 > > If this works, I want 5 % royalities ! :) > > Donate another 5 % to Greg ! He has led us to the right way ! :) > >=20 > > Any comments ? Am I right or am I wrong ? > >=20 > > Regards, Stefan. > >=20 > Hi Stephan, >=20 > The 5% royalty is ok with me. While I can explain Newman's motor, > don't get too excited, they are just one class of many. >=20 > I believe Newman is right in NOT using a ferrite core for his coil. > His rotor is a PM and the ferrite core would cause back drag in his > design. Also the flux utilization could be much better. Another > subject for later discussion and building test rigs. >=20 > Another point you need to think about. The reverse current flow > occurs then the coil is CONNECTED to the power source due to the > movement of the magnet (It's domains are stiff). More about this > later. You still need to understand my line by line description > of the ferrite rod moving 1 mm example. >=20 > There is more, much more to understand to FULLY utilize DNMEC > in a working generator. One clue. A DNMEC generator will self > run due to the internal energy flows. But not yet. >=20 > Lets get the basic DNMEC principles fully understood by ALL. >=20 > --=20 > Best Regards, > Greg Watson, > Greg Watson Consulting, > Adelaide, South Australia, > gwatson@enternet.com.au >=20 >=20 >=20 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 16:26:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA31976; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:26:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:26:14 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970113162629.0097dc00@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:26:33 -0800 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au, harti@bbtt.de, vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"4VVwF1.0.Xp7.aAjso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1386 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I disagree with #12. You stated that the amp meter in the external power supply will register a power supply current drop in response to the ferrite moving near the coil (electromagnet). The drop in external power supply current will happen only if the coil generates its own induced current IN THE SAME DIRECTION as the current already supplied by the external power supply. IF IF IF, the induced coil current was generated in the opposite direction to the power supply current, the current draw from the external power supply would INCREASE. Since the primary and secondary currents are combined IN SERIES. SECONDARY CURRENT IN THE SAME DIRECTION CAUSES THE DROP IN THE PRIMARY CURRENT (provided by the external power supply) SECONDARY CURRENT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION CAUSES AN INCREASE IN THE PRIMARY CURRENT (provided by the external power supply) To verify this use a power supply (with amp meter) resistor and a battery. Establish a circuit with only the power supply and resistor (note the current) and then insert the battery IN SERIES with the resistor and see what happens to the power supply current draw. This is a classical mistake where people do not connect the secondary power supplies in SERIES and are forgetting to observe the proper polarity. KEEP EVERYTHING CONNECTED IN SERIES AND YOU WON'T GO WRONG ! Because #12 is the opposite that changes the interpretation of #6, 9,10,11,13,14,17 At 11:40 PM 1/13/97 +1030, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> I can't ignore Stefan's argument; You pump 10 ma through the coil, attract >> a ferrite in the hole, and get only 5 ma back but increase ferrite's momentum. > >Try this. Tell me which line you have a problem with. > 1>We have a ferrite rod 10 mm from an electromagnet which is connected to >a power > supply. > 2>The coil current is 10 ma with nothing moving. > 3>The magnet has a North pole facing the rod. > 4>The rod has a domain induced South pole facing the magnet due to the >rod's >domains aligning with the magnet's flux. > 5>The flux flowing in the magnet is greater with the rod near by than if >the > rod were not present. > 6>The flux flowing through the magnet is the sum of the magnet's own flux > plus the flux generated by the near by ferrite rod. > 7>The rod is attracted to the magnet due to the magnets North pole > and the rod's induced South pole. > 8>The ferrite rod is now released and a snap shot is taken when the rod > is 9 mm from the magnet. > 9>As the distance between the rod and the coil has decreased to 9 mm, the > flux flowing through the coil will increase due to the rod's magnetic > field being closer to the magnet. > 10>The coil will sense an increasing magnetic field flowing through it and > attempt to hold the flux flowing through the coil constant. > 11>To hold the flux flowing through the coil constant, the coil must reduce > it's own magnetic field > 12>To do so the coil's increasing field will generate a reverse EMF > into the power supply. > 13>This reverse EMF will, in effect, reduce the voltage applied to the coil > and reduce the current flowing through the coil. > 14>The coil supplied flux will drop to a value, which when summed with the > greater flux from the now closer rod, will equal the previous flux at > 10 mm. > 15>The flux flowing through the coil at 9 mm is now the same as at 10 mm. > 16>The rod has gained kinetic energy due to the attractive forced applied > as it moved from 10 mm away to 9 mm away. > 17>The power supply has done less work due to the reverse EMF generated by > the increasing flux from the approaching ferrite rod reducing current > consumption. > 18>The coil flux, (it's stored energy) is constant. >You and Stephan MUST understand ALL of this before we go further. > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 16:31:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA00410; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:31:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 16:31:17 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:33:04 +0100 Message-Id: <199701140033.BAA24705@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: DNMEC tapping device ? Resonance catastrophes ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, newman-l@emachine.com, ralph.hartwell@emachine.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"9UMoq2.0.G6.HFjso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1387 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, what do you think of such a circuit ? Can it tap your DNMEC system ? Please read with an equally spaced font with this width ! <--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------> Side view ! *----------------------------------* coil L1 | | OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Cap C1 | ---------- --*--------- +---------------+ +----------------+ | Permanent | nonmagnetic rod | Moving | <---->| N S |-------------------------------------|Dielectricum(DE)|<------> | Magnet (PM)| | (polarized) | +---------------+ +----------------+ spring ------------*--------- supported PM and DE OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO | | | *----------------------------------* I always thought about resonance catastrophes and now I have come up with such a circuit, which uses the parametrical excited resonance of a coil L1 and and capacitor C1 with its moving inner parameters: a PM and a polarized Dielectricum (DE) ! The PM and the Dielectricum are fixed via a nonmagnetic and nonmetallic rod, so they can move together in and out of the coil and cap and are spring supported. I have not yet thought about the polarities. Maybe the rod must be longer, so that the dielectricum must move OUT of the cap instead of into it, when the PM is moving into the coil ??? But one thing is a fact ! The resonance frequency of the mechanical combination PM and DE must have the same frequency as the electrical resonance frequency of the L1 and C1 circuit ! Can this circuit go resonate and will the oscillations enhance or damp down ??? Will this circuit blow up, cause the oscillations will rise and rise, til the current and voltage of the electrical circuit blow up the L1 C1 combination ? Please let me know your views ! Has anybody yet proposed such a circuit ? Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 17:05:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA10067; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:05:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:05:25 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:08:12 +0100 Message-Id: <199701140108.CAA24892@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: Nils Rognerud From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: New Newman machine building advices ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"vBKOi1.0.5T2.Hljso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1388 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >5% Royality: You guys are amazing! No offense intended, but you don't >even have a working protoype!... There is too much talk in this group - >like most theoretical scientists. How about building a WORKING model. I >may even be interested to invest time and money myself. > Well, Nils, I have been there and did build many devices and did not really know how they should work.... Now I prefer to be at least 90 % clear what I am chasing so I want to discuss all unclear points, before I spent again time and money to build something ! Can you understand this ? >Stop the talk and build a test. Talk is cheap and the physical universe >runs by its own rules, regardless of what we think or say. Just my 10 >cents worth - please ignore at will. Yes, but there are still a few things unclear to me, so I have to discuss this some further to understand Greg=B4s new DNMEC theories and to get them to a practical running device, which has not to be changed a hundred times before we get it to run ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 17:06:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA10113; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:05:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:05:39 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 02:08:10 +0100 Message-Id: <199701140108.CAA24885@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Epitaxy From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? Cc: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de Resent-Message-ID: <"L8Asz2.0.kT2.Sljso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1389 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >I disagree with #12. > >You stated that the amp meter in the external power supply will register a >power supply current drop in response to the ferrite moving near the coil >(electromagnet). > >The drop in external power supply current will happen only if the coil >generates its own induced current IN THE SAME DIRECTION as the current >already supplied by the external power supply. > >IF IF IF, the induced coil current was generated in the opposite direction >to the power supply current, the current draw from the external power >supply would INCREASE. > >Since the primary and secondary currents are combined IN SERIES. > >SECONDARY CURRENT IN THE SAME DIRECTION CAUSES THE DROP IN THE PRIMARY >CURRENT (provided by the external power supply) > >SECONDARY CURRENT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION CAUSES AN INCREASE IN THE >PRIMARY CURRENT (provided by the external power supply) > >To verify this use a power supply (with amp meter) resistor and a battery. >Establish a circuit with only the power supply and resistor (note the >current) and then insert the battery IN SERIES with the resistor and see >what happens to the power supply current draw. This is a classical >mistake where people do not connect the secondary power supplies in SERIES >and are forgetting to observe the proper polarity. > >KEEP EVERYTHING CONNECTED IN SERIES AND YOU WON'T GO WRONG ! > >Because #12 is the opposite that changes the interpretation of #6, >9,10,11,13,14,17 Well, yes, you are probably right... also it depends. if you let loose the magnetic rod when it still was NON-moving at 10 mm or if it was already moving at 10 mm distance ! To accelerate it you need power, thus you must spend more current, so the current inside the coil will rise ! But if the rod is already moving, it is inducing itself a back EMF into the coil which lets the current go smaller, so Greg should have looked better at the picture at a more closer distance, say at 3 mm distance ! To stay at the last example: at 3 mm distance the coil current should have already dropped below 10 mA ! Do you agree ? The question is now: Must one use the same energy to accelerate the rod versus one wins, when it is accelerated and at speed and when it then induced Back EMF to reduce the input current ??? As the forces are not linear near an electromagnet this nonlinearity can also play a big roll ! Pretty difficult ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 17:21:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA14069; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:21:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:21:16 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:17:27 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Time Travel Homepage/mail list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wR7EU1.0.jR3.9-jso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1390 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A short while ago, the moderator of this page suggested that maybe that the time travel discussion thread *might* be worthwhile enough to start it's own discussion list. I have set up a page and mailing list specifically for time travel. Please check out my page at http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/index-2.html. This is in *no* way saying that you should leave this one, btw. I'm just trying to ascede to the moderators wishes. BTW All who are interested are welcome. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 17:23:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA14586; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:22:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:22:47 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 14:21 NZDT X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: Re: LC Tanks produce free magnetic energy ? X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"V0fri2.0.lZ3.a_jso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1391 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan, Unfortunately you seem to have cut and pasted some parts from my original post, and others from my e-mail. This might inhibit a clear understanding of the matters simplicity. However, the FIRST question to resolve is: Does the original circuit (shown below), increase the sum of the electrical charges contained in the two capacitors. ===== L1 ---------------------/ \-000000 ----- | | | +ve | +ve C1 | C2 - ve --|< ------- -ve | D1 | --------------------------------------- Your responses (reversed) were: >snip >But you are right, the electrical charge in both caps >added up is higher using the formular Q=CV ! >snip I agree completely. Experimentally confirmed, this simple fact has great significance. And as we have seen no RATIONAL view to the contrary, logic would seem to confirm our mutual understanding. and; >snip >Okay, but if you calculate the energy of both >Caps via 2 x .5CV^2 at 7.8 Volts it is just 0,6084 Joules with both Caps... >So the energy in both caps is smaller than with the starting voltage in C1... >snip Of course, and this must be so. In discussing the second circuit in my original post that conclusion was implicit, and it applies to both circuits. That is, we have REDUCED the TOTAL energy of the circuit, following the transfer of CHARGE from C1 to C2. You also noted: >> snip.................At this point, let's close S3, open S2, and close S1. > >Yes, but at this point you have only transfered the remaining 0,3042 Joules >from C2 into the coil ! Nothing more ? Or am I wrong ? >snip Wrong. "ENERGY" is not transferred. Energy may be raised, lowered, transposed, transformed or used to accomplish WORK, but it is not "transferred". CHARGE is transferred, and in so doing it is neither consumed nor destroyed in the process. The only thing we "consume" is TIME. Note also that in my original post I refer to the "transfer" of CHARGE, as opposed to "transposed" energy from the capacitor, into the magnetic field of the inductor. In the above discussion (i.e. the first step), we have agreed to LOWER the energy level of the circuit, by transferring CHARGE. And as you so correctly pointed out yourself in a previous post: > >But that is totally UNLOGICAL ! Charge CAN NOT BE DESTROYED ! >So the sum of the charges must be the same as we had before >in C1 alone ! >Thus we get a FREE Magnetic ENERY inside the coil ! >And that is the SURPLUS ENERGY ! Correct. You also noted in your recent post: >snip >> Now let's measure the voltage across C1 and calculate again how much charge >> it contains. Let's also calculate the energy it now contains in the form of >> .5 CV^2 Joules. > > >I suppose you can at maximum also only get the 0,3042 Joules transfered >back into C1, so the energy stored in C1 would only be again >2 x 0,3042 Joules = 0,6084 Joules, so you have less energy as when you >started... > I refer you to your own explanation above (quote) "So the sum of the charges must be the same as we had before in C1 alone !" (unquote). And I ask the question: So what happened to the missing charge? Did we consume it? No, and remember that the values of the capacitive elements have not changed. That is, you seem to be suggesting, that at the end of the day, having transferred ALL of the charge back into C1 (which still has the same capacitance), we will somehow end up with less energy, and therefore LESS CHARGE, than we started with in C1. If as you infer, we now have 0,2108 LESS Joules in C1, we would seem to have somehow misplaced about 0,0177 Coulombs of electrical charge somewhere! (Now why does that remind me of of a line from "The Importance of being Ernest" :) Is that correct? There is a simple way to put back ALL of the charge into C1 (including that which we acquired from the inductor's field), but until I can obtain the parts (I have to send away for them) and confirm it experimentally, I shall leave you to think about it. Regards all, Stuart Rae From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 18:04:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA24870; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:03:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:03:46 -0800 Message-ID: <32DAB114.124B@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:33:00 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Understanding DNMEC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tVJj-3.0.D46.zbkso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1392 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Stephan and Epitxay, I am concerned that you two are going too fast and jumping to too many conclusions too fast. Slow down, read then re-read my posts. Do some thinking. Do some testing which is designed to only validate my examples as right or wrong. This is the scientific way. One solid, secure step at a time. That way we will build on soild ground, leave behind non truth and all will be revealed. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 18:05:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA25019; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:04:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:04:28 -0800 Message-ID: <32DAE017.C0@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:53:35 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Epitaxy Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? References: <3.0.32.19970113162629.0097dc00@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8ryGm.0.g66.bckso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1393 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > I disagree with #12. > > You stated that the amp meter in the external power supply will register a > power supply current drop in response to the ferrite moving near the coil > (electromagnet). Hi Epitxay, Have you tried it? Be sure to use an analog meter as the drop is small and doesn't last too long. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 18:05:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA25103; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:04:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:04:45 -0800 Message-ID: <32DAE78A.3D76@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 12:25:22 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, Stefan Hartmann Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? References: <199701140108.CAA24885@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2D84544723CF" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZY9QT3.0.c76.ockso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1394 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2D84544723CF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > > > >I disagree with #12. > > > >You stated that the amp meter in the external power supply will register a > >power supply current drop in response to the ferrite moving near the coil > >(electromagnet). > > > >The drop in external power supply current will happen only if the coil > >generates its own induced current IN THE SAME DIRECTION as the current > >already supplied by the external power supply. > > > >IF IF IF, the induced coil current was generated in the opposite direction > >to the power supply current, the current draw from the external power > >supply would INCREASE. > > > >Since the primary and secondary currents are combined IN SERIES. > > > >SECONDARY CURRENT IN THE SAME DIRECTION CAUSES THE DROP IN THE PRIMARY > >CURRENT (provided by the external power supply) > > > >SECONDARY CURRENT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION CAUSES AN INCREASE IN THE > >PRIMARY CURRENT (provided by the external power supply) > > > >To verify this use a power supply (with amp meter) resistor and a battery. > >Establish a circuit with only the power supply and resistor (note the > >current) and then insert the battery IN SERIES with the resistor and see > >what happens to the power supply current draw. This is a classical > >mistake where people do not connect the secondary power supplies in SERIES > >and are forgetting to observe the proper polarity. > > > >KEEP EVERYTHING CONNECTED IN SERIES AND YOU WON'T GO WRONG ! > > > >Because #12 is the opposite that changes the interpretation of #6, > >9,10,11,13,14,17 > > Well, yes, you are probably right... > also it depends. if you let loose the magnetic rod when it still > was NON-moving at 10 mm or if it was already moving at 10 mm distance ! > To accelerate it you need power, thus you must spend more current, so > the current inside the coil will rise ! > > But if the rod is already moving, it is inducing itself a back EMF into the > coil which lets the current go smaller, so Greg should have looked better > at the picture at a more closer distance, say at 3 mm distance ! > > To stay at the last example: at 3 mm distance the coil current should > have already dropped below 10 mA ! > > Do you agree ? > > The question is now: > > Must one use the same energy to accelerate the rod > versus > one wins, > when it is accelerated and at speed and when it then induced Back EMF to reduce > the input current ??? > > As the forces are not linear near an electromagnet this nonlinearity can also > play a big roll ! Pretty difficult ! > Hi Stephan, Who ever said that life was meant to be easy. Or the path to DNMEC Over Unity? 1) As the field flowing through the coil increases, the coil will attempt to hold the field constant. On this we all agree. 2) To do this, the coil will generate its own EMF which has the same polarity as the applied voltage from the power supply. 3) This coil generated EMF will oppose the EMF from the power source. 4) The coil will therefore see a reduced EMF applied across its windings and coil current will drop. 5) The coil generated EMF will also cause the power supply to deliver less current as shown on its Amp meter. See attached crude mouse drawn picture. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------2D84544723CF Content-Type: image/gif; name="coil1.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="coil1.gif" R0lGODlhZQGMAfcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPz8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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YPZA9dmQ8bk5OsRF0+mhmXKHjzijtNhLHUWXf/eJ4pmWRBoqTqqNj0OhBSSZNGmk4WaleDh4 TMqRVseFzaeKWOpCQ+pCZ0imhcgUa6WmqmmfIkqcfsWN8hejW2iKZVp2FoSktYdMdHpwUBio giqogamIhnqoiJqoirqojAraqI76qJBqMgEBADs= --------------2D84544723CF-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 19:12:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA09634 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:12:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:12:19 -0800 X-Envelope-From: bshannon@tiac.net Mon Jan 13 19:12:16 1997 Received: from maildeliver0.tiac.net (maildeliver0.tiac.net [199.0.65.19]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA09612 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:12:14 -0800 Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05292 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:12:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from bshannon.tiac.net (bshannon.tiac.net [206.119.135.211]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with SMTP id WAA06184 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:12:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32DAB330.5C18@tiac.net> Old-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:12:00 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Additional PROOF of DNMEC over unity operation] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: <32DAB2F4.3805@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:11:00 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Subject: Re: Additional PROOF of DNMEC over unity operation References: <32D98DBF.798D@mail.enternet.com.au> <32DA32C2.233B@tiac.net> <32DAA5F1.17C2@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Watson wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > Is there some new theory to address these questions? Greg replies: > Hi Bob, > > Part of the answer to DNMEC is to understand that opposing fluxes > when forced to flow within the confines of a ferrite flux path > will not cause flux distortion (They can't easily escape from the > good conduction path of the ferrite). They just sum their differences > and reduce overall flux density flowing in the conduction path. Odd, some time ago you posted exactly the opposite of this on this forum. In your post, you described that your simulations also showed that rather than superpose, flux WOULD jump over an air gap, outside the ferrite core. On Saturday, Jan 04 1997 you wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > Grab a core and a spool of wire, and try it yourself. > Hi Bob, > > Enclosed are Quick Field files to simulate your example. After you > download and unzip the program, put the files in the example directory. > You can alter the 2 coil strengths by editing the LibData. Like you, > I have verified the data in reality. In fact, that post also included two .GIF's from your simulation. Also, I can easlily proove that this is an experimental fact. So you might see why I am quite confused that you now post "They can't easily escape from the good conduction path of the ferrite". This is apparently a direct contradiction, or significant misunderstanding. > When opposing fluxes mix in a air gap, flux distortion occurs and it > is the flux distortion that we must learn to use if we wish to move > toward Over Unity in moving magnetic systems. Err, changing B fields in free space undergo true vector superposition. Static ones act just like magnet poles (which they are) and a sheet of paper and iron filings will show these do not superpose. > My earlier GIFS and Epitxay's two magnet test show this effect is > real. But it is ONLY path of the puzzle. The puzzle just got more complicated it seems. Epitaxy's two magnet test can also be interpreted to show that there is more flux between opposed magnets, as your simulations have shown. What's the story here? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 19:54:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA20379 for bilb@eskimo.com; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:54:04 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:54:04 -0800 X-Envelope-From: bshannon@tiac.net Mon Jan 13 19:53:58 1997 Received: from maildeliver0.tiac.net (maildeliver0.tiac.net [199.0.65.19]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA20348 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:53:56 -0800 Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id WAA31018 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:53:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from bshannon.tiac.net (bshannon.tiac.net [206.119.135.211]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with SMTP id WAA09154 for ; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:53:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32DABCFA.4C0D@tiac.net> Old-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:53:46 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Additional PROOF of DNMEC ???? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > Is there some new theory to address these questions? Greg replies: > Hi Bob, > > Part of the answer to DNMEC is to understand that opposing fluxes > when forced to flow within the confines of a ferrite flux path > will not cause flux distortion (They can't easily escape from the > good conduction path of the ferrite). They just sum their differences > and reduce overall flux density flowing in the conduction path. Odd, some time ago you posted exactly the opposite of this on this forum. In your post, you described that your simulations also showed that rather than superpose, flux WOULD jump over an air gap, outside the ferrite core. On Saturday, Jan 04 1997 you wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > Grab a core and a spool of wire, and try it yourself. > Hi Bob, > > Enclosed are Quick Field files to simulate your example. After you > download and unzip the program, put the files in the example directory. > You can alter the 2 coil strengths by editing the LibData. Like you, > I have verified the data in reality. In fact, that post also included two .GIF's from your simulation. Also, I can easlily proove that this is an experimental fact. So you might see why I am quite confused that you now post "They can't easily escape from the good conduction path of the ferrite". This is apparently a direct contradiction, or significant misunderstanding. > When opposing fluxes mix in a air gap, flux distortion occurs and it > is the flux distortion that we must learn to use if we wish to move > toward Over Unity in moving magnetic systems. Err, changing B fields in free space undergo true vector superposition. Static ones act just like magnet poles (which they are) and a sheet of paper and iron filings will show these do not superpose. > My earlier GIFS and Epitxay's two magnet test show this effect is > real. But it is ONLY path of the puzzle. The puzzle just got more complicated it seems. Epitaxy's two magnet test can also be interpreted to show that there is more flux between opposed magnets, as your simulations have shown. What's the story here? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 20:15:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA25773; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:14:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:14:45 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:13:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970113151154_1310544432@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"mWJB72.0.cI6.pWmso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1395 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>I believe Rex Research carries a copy. That's where I got mine. I am also willing to provide copies, on diskette, to anyone interested. I can only supply IBM formatted ones, though.>>> I would like to see it, but you don't have to go to all the trouble of sending me anything....if you decide to ever e-mail it, you know who to send it to! :) (BTW, Macintosh can open almost all IMB text formats) -Adam GRossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 20:50:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA01370; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:50:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:50:02 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:50:52 -0600 To: newman-l@emachine.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de Resent-Message-ID: <"17x7B2.0.IL.s1nso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1396 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >KEEP EVERYTHING CONNECTED IN SERIES AND YOU WON'T GO WRONG! Yes. >Must one use the same energy to accelerate the rod versus one wins, when >it is >accelerated and at speed and when it then induced Back EMF to >reduce the input >current ??? > >As the forces are not linear near an electromagnet this nonlinearity can also >play a big role ! Pretty difficult ! > >Regards, Stefan. Yes Stefan --- a critical word you use above is "when" --- timing is very critical to the operation of the system..... as Joe has described, the kinetic magnetic fields in his operational units consist of billions of GYRONS which must at all times be "mechanically understood and anticipated." Best, Evan josephnewman@earthlink.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 21:07:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA05130; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:07:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:07:10 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 01:08:34 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Local Event Horizon - single-sphere photon Lines: 80 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YdcWt2.0.3G1.zHnso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1397 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote about Experiments in time travel? C. Note, material periphery part of rod (disk) can be moving with a velocity that is more that C. I published a paper "The concept of mass process" where over-light velocity aspect is developed from a next point: dV * dX T = ------------------- C^2 where T is time period, dV and dX - from Heizenberg formula for velocity and position determination. Change of velocity dV=V1-V0=V1 if V0 is taken as zero. There are three points: 1. For V=C wave-length is: L=CT=dX It is photon state of matter, wave-length value determine the size of object, the space of object. 2. For 0C wave length is: L = -------- = (1 + V/C)dX C It means that size of this object (its wave-length) is more than possibility of determination of the position of object. If this object is moving, we'll can not see this motion. This object must have a properties of some potential field (from our frame of references point of view) and any changes of it must have a place in all points of it at the same moment of time. If this idea is interesting for you, please, help me to publish my papers (by your edition) in ph.math. journal. So called "local event horizon" Bob Shannon wrote above must be produced by system of such sort rotation as a sphere for radius where velocity V=C. We'll can measure E and H of normal photon but only in one position of radial distance from the centre of rotation. It can be named as single-sphere photon. Outside of this sphere we'll can measure potential field. Inside of it the mass-matter is produced in process of rotation of particles of Ether. I am follower of concept that mass is produced by rotation in process m=F/a By my opinion and by some analogies with concept of Dr. Spartak Poliakov, Moscow, it is a model of electric charge. If you know the radius of electron, you'll can calculate the velocity of rotation inside of electron that produce its electrical field outside of "electron's surface" that is so called "single-sphere photon". --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 22:38:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA24033; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:38:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:38:27 -0800 From: warlord@LocalAccess.com Message-Id: <199701140638.WAA23995@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: warlord@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: DNMEC --> Experiment results Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 22:38:15 PSTP+0000 X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"5E5TD2.0.It5.Wdoso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1398 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have confirmed experimentaly that AS a solenoid coil (externaly powered by constant voltage power supply) attracts a non-conductive ferromagnetic material, the external-supply-current decreases. A control experiment has been made without the power supply with the coil shorted by a 1 ohm current sensing resistor to verify that the non-conductive ferromagnetic material does not posess a remanent magnetic field and does not induce current in the coil by virtue of this residual field. The result was total lack measurable current induced by the ferromagnetic material alone. The external supply current drop must happen because a current (in the same direction as the power supply's ie. -+ -+) is generated by the coil and since this current is in the same direction as the external-supply-current, the external power supply IS aided by this induced current resulting in the drop of the requirement of the external-supply-current. If the current generated by the coil was in the opposite direction (ie. -+ +-) to the external-supply-current the power supply would be forced to supply more current to overcome this coil-generated current. The experiment shows that this is not the case. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 13 23:52:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA29846; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:40:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:40:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:41:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199701131841.TAA22919@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: New Newman machine building advices ! Cc: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@localaccess.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, josephnewman@earthlink.net Resent-Message-ID: <"NO1Xk.0.UH7.86eso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1376 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Can show you how to make the coil current go negative, but first we >still >have some theory work to do. Not easy possible with a Newman design, but probably otherway possible. Newman=B4s current goes only negative, when you open the coil ! >Over unity is only possible when we know ALL the requirements. > >Send me the physical data on your proposed generator. Will simulate >and suggest mods to achieve the Watson Effect and make it possible >to run over unity. I will now overthink the magnetic flux switch based on the ideas, I have just understand and let you know. Here are a few new comments about the Newman devices: So far I have understood it this way: Newman doesn=B4t need to build the coils as huge as possible, but just should use huge dimension ferrite material inside his machines to have maximal influenced atom alignment for magnet domains inside the=20 ferrite material ! Then when one switches OFF the relatively small coil with a huge ferrite core inside it, probably the neon tubes will explode due to the immense HV back pulse. So Joe can you hear me ? Try it with huge rods of ferrite material in your biggest coil ! Do you still have your first big motor in your Workshop in Lucedale ? Just place it full of ferrite material and thus create a huge electromagnet and pulse this on and off. Be cautious ! These induction voltage HV spikes could kill you ! They should have enormous energy output. But probably it would need to move inside the coil, so do it like your reciprocating device but with just a huger ferrite inner rod. So you can keep the coil size pretty small compared to the ferrite rod size and have to use less copper wire which reduces cost ! If this works, I want 5 % royalities ! :) Donate another 5 % to Greg ! He has led us to the right way ! :) Any comments ? Am I right or am I wrong ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 01:01:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA20568; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:01:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:01:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:55:48 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Homepage/mail list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NXbnX2.0.H15.Gjqso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1399 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Just a message to anyone who may try to subscribe to my time travel mailing list. I'm having trouble with getting it to work right. I'll have it up as soon as I can. Thanx for everyones patience. :) Take care all. :) John ******************************************************************************* Are you in to REAL time travel? How about building a working time machine? Why not check out http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/index-2.html ? ******************************************************************************* Do you want to earn extra money at home with your computer? Then check out http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/4012 for some great opps! ******************************************************************************* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 01:52:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA29610; Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:39:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:39:46 -0800 Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 19:41:57 +0100 Message-Id: <199701131841.TAA22922@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Understanding Newmam machine and DNMEC principle now ! Cc: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@localaccess.com, newman-l@emachine.com, ralph.hartwell@emachine.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net Resent-Message-ID: <"2Ninm3.0.tD7.c5eso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1375 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have added a few new ideas of modifying Newman machines to get a better output at the end of this email ! Have a look ! >I can't ignore Stefan's argument; You pump 10mA through the coil, attract >a ferrite in the hole, and get only 5ma back but increase ferrite's= momentum. > >How about idealizing this situation. > >Use ideal (ie. superconductive coil). Charge it up with 10mA and >disconnect the power supply. The current in the coil will persist without >the power supply because there is no resistance to dissipate it. Now the >ferrite is attracted into the hole in the coil and the coil current >DECREASES to 5ma but the ferrite gains mechanical momentum. (unless you >claim the current is INCREASED to 15mA instead ?) No, the drop to 5 mA is REAL ! This is what the Ampere-Meter will read ! >I can't help but draw the conclusion that the missing 5mA was spent on >increasing the ferrite's momentum. Am I missing something ? No ! Now I see Greg=B4s new ideas ! He says, even in this case the stored magnetic energy of the coils stays the same !=20 So if you would open the superconductive coil at the moment when the accelerated ferrite has max. speed inside the coil, the coil would still have a stored energy of W=3D0.5LI^2 and the coil current I in Amperes would still have to be calculated with 10 mA, although the current just dropped to 5 mA due to the induced back EMF of the moving ferrite. If you open this superconductive coil and have a neon tube accross its connections, the energy released in the flash would be equal to=20 having just a coil with 10 mA of current and no moving ferrite at all= nearby.... So here it is where you win: You need less less energy input to the coil, get kinetic movement energy of the ferrite and still can "discharge" the coil at a higher energy output than the flowing current would predict ! The same thing exactly happens in all big Newman motors ! I guess it depends on the induced "influenced" magnetic fields inside the=20 attracted ferrite ! This induced magnetism is also shut down as soon as the coil is opened and this stored energy is transferred to electrical HV pulse inside the coil via induction, so the induction discharge pulse of the coil is really as big, as if still 10 mA would flow inside the coil ! (but indeed only 5 mA are just flowing...) Or see it this way, the Inductance L of the coil has just risen, due to the ferrite is now inside the coil and this also affects the formular: W=3D0.5LI^2 and makes the output higher ! Greg, I bet I have now understood all your new ideas ! Now it is pretty easy to see, how to optimize a Newman- motor or a flux gateing device. Just store as much energy inside the attracted ferrite via influenced induction of domain allignment as you can=20 and release it to an induction pulse, when it is inside the coil !=20 The energy required to do so is minimal, if you design the coil and the dimensions of the ferrite right... and use the right ferrite material ! Align as many domains in the attrated ferrite as you can (this is your DNMEC) and then discharge=20 them all into the coil, when you open the coil commutator switch ! And you gain a lot of mechanical kinetic energy of the ferrite too ! I am still wondering, if it is better to use at all a PM instead of just a ferrite, which is attracted into the coil ? Here are a few new comments about the Newman devices: So far I have understood it this way: Newman doesn=B4t need to build the coils as huge as possible, but just should use huge dimension ferrite material inside his machines to have maximal influenced atom alignment for magnet domains inside the=20 ferrite material ! Then when one switches OFF the relatively small coil with a huge ferrite core inside it, probably the neon tubes will explode due to the immense HV back pulse. So Joe can you hear me ? Try it with huge rods of ferrite material in your biggest coil ! Do you still have your first big motor in your Workshop in Lucedale ? Just place it full of ferrite material and thus create a huge electromagnet and pulse this on and off. Be cautious ! These induction voltage HV spikes could kill you ! They should have enormous energy output. But probably it would need to move inside the coil, so do it like your reciprocating device but with just a huger ferrite inner rod. So you can keep the coil size pretty small compared to the ferrite rod size and have to use less copper wire which reduces cost ! If this works, I want 5 % royalities ! :) Donate another 5 % to Greg ! He has led us to the right way ! :) Any comments ? Am I right or am I wrong ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 03:04:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA03657; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:03:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:03:53 -0800 Message-ID: <32DB5B4F.36F2@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:39:19 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, William Beaty Subject: Re: Missing DNMEC gifs proving over unity operation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fp0vT3.0.vu.MWsso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1400 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Greg Watson wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > > > Sorry for the second post, the gifs didn't go. > > Hi Greg! People are complaining about double posts coming from vortex-l > and freenrg-l. Could we move the magnets/lenz-law discussion to > freenrg-L? To limit the traffic, we need to choose just one listserver > for this topic. Vortex-l is mostly water vortex and CF stuff. > Hi Bill, OK by me. They crowd my input as well. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 03:04:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA03701; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:03:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:03:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32DB5FB2.7938@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:58:02 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Additional PROOF of DNMEC over unity operation References: <32D98DBF.798D@mail.enternet.com.au> <32DA32C2.233B@tiac.net> <32DAA5F1.17C2@mail.enternet.com.au> <32DAB2F4.3805@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dVOnn2.0.bv.OWsso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1401 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > > > Is there some new theory to address these questions? > > Greg replies: > > > Hi Bob, > > > > Part of the answer to DNMEC is to understand that opposing fluxes > > when forced to flow within the confines of a ferrite flux path > > will not cause flux distortion (They can't easily escape from the > > good conduction path of the ferrite). They just sum their differences > > and reduce overall flux density flowing in the conduction path. > > Odd, some time ago you posted exactly the opposite of this on this > forum. > > In your post, you described that your simulations also showed that > rather than superpose, flux WOULD jump over an air gap, outside the > ferrite core. > > On Saturday, Jan 04 1997 you wrote: > > > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > > > Grab a core and a spool of wire, and try it yourself. > > Hi Bob, > > > > Enclosed are Quick Field files to simulate your example. After you > > download and unzip the program, put the files in the example directory. > > You can alter the 2 coil strengths by editing the LibData. Like you, > > I have verified the data in reality. > > In fact, that post also included two .Gif's from your simulation. > > Also, I can easily prove that this is an experimental fact. > > So you might see why I am quite confused that you now post "They can't > easily escape from the good conduction path of the ferrite". > > This is apparently a direct contradiction, or significant > misunderstanding. > > > When opposing fluxes mix in an air gap, flux distortion occurs and it > > is the flux distortion that we must learn to use if we wish to move > > toward Over Unity in moving magnetic systems. > > Err, changing B fields in free space undergo true vector superposition. > Static ones act just like magnet poles (which they are) and a sheet of > paper and iron filings will show these do not superpose. > > > My earlier GIFS and Epitxay's two magnet test show this effect is > > real. But it is ONLY path of the puzzle. > > The puzzle just got more complicated it seems. > > Epitxay's two magnet test can also be interpreted to show that there is > more flux between opposed magnets, as your simulations have shown. > > What's the story here? Hi Bob, Thanks for the input, no one ever said magnetics is simple. I will attempt to answer the above apparent contradiction. I stand by both statements and examples. They are not the same. The reason flux summing occurs within the confines of a ferrite flux path is that the permeability of the ferrite, at most flux densities, is so much better than air, so as long as the flux is of a level to cause domain alignment and rise the permeability of the ferrite flux to a reasonable level, the flux will stay trapped. Two coils pushing equal but different polarity flux into a toroid will result in very little flux flow in the ferrite and so the ferrite's permeability is very low. Therefore the difference between the effective toroid permeability and air is small, so flux escapes into the air as my Gifs show. Hope this helps. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 03:04:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA03814; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:04:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:04:11 -0800 Message-ID: <32DB65EF.3AB1@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:24:39 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? References: <199701140415.PAA16362@yarrina.connect.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"8wpUt2.0.sw.aWsso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1402 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: warlord@localaccess.com wrote: > > What you have drawn are two power sources opposing each other ( -+ +-), > since you claim that the power supply current DROPS in response to the > ferrite approach, that means that the current induced by the coil flows in > the same direction as the power supply current (ie. -+ -+) and AIDS the > power supply. This AIDING is what decreases the power supply current draw. > Your drawing DOES NOT show currents in the same direction (just the opposite) > Hi Warlord, You are of course correct. Sorry for the mistake. Must have been the result of too many hours on the kb and a lack of sleep. Glad to see your test verified the current drop. Please understand that this test is the first of three which will show the way to DNMEC. This test is not the complete proof of DNMEC over unity operation. The important elements of the ferrite / coil test are : 1) Power supply current drops as the ferrite approaches. 2) Energy stored in the coil stays constant. 3) Less work is done by the Power supply during the approach phase. 4) The ferrite rod has greater kinetic energy. I will post the next experiment on flux summing tomorrow on freengr-l. Thanks for the input. Remember, NONE of us knows as much as ALL of us. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 03:08:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA04865; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:07:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:07:53 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:53:39 +0100 Message-Id: <199701141053.LAA26615@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: Epitaxy From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: DNMEC --> Direction of induced current Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"I39h23.0.wB1.7asso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1403 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >I think we still don't have the matters very cleared up. > >I hope that it is clear that the drop in external power supply current draw >is EQUIVALENT to coil generating a secondary current IN THE SAME DIRECTION >as the power supply current. > >If we use the superconductive coil scenario without the power supply where >a fixed current loop is trapped in the coil perpetually THEN: > Forget the superconduction coil just for this moment and just only think about coils which have a inner ohmic resistance ! >The same secondary current generated by the coil as in the sentence above >will be ADDED to the current already circulating in the coil (in response >to the ferrite's approach). > >According to the above analysis we will end up with MORE current when the >ferrite is in the coil ! This is very good news if correct. No, less current ! The moving rod induces back EMF=20 which makes the current smaller ! Only, if you decrease the motion of the rod by holding it back or slowing its motion down with an external force you have to draw again more current ! That is, what you mix up ! To accelerate and deaccelerate the rod it needs power, so more current, but when the rod already moves it needs less power, because then it is inducing back EMF into the coil which decreases input current ! Also we have a nonlinear system here, cause the rod is moving from far away into the coil and it is accelerated, so it should draw more power from the supply, but as also the distance is reduced and L increases the back EMF of the already moving rod seems to be a higher effect,=20 so the current is reduced. All very NONLINEAR !=20 If we would have a different Linear configuration the coil current might have to increase, but NOT in this case as also the experiment shows ! BTW, Please keep the quoting less, Epi. Also let us just post our conversation only to freenrg-l and not anymore to vortex as some people are flooded with too many messages... Maybe we should only discuss certain points in private emails before we pass new views we have worked out in private email to the list ? What is your view on this ? =CC also get too much traffic lately and by flooding the listservers it is not much help for all people... So I keep my posts now only to freenrg-l@eskimo.com and some=20 also to the newman-l@emachine.com. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 03:47:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA09499; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:46:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 03:46:58 -0800 Message-ID: <32DB70C5.4195@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:10:53 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Second DNMEC Test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZQ1as.0.HK2.n8tso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1404 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Sorry for the list server flood, I got it as well. ALL postings will go to freenrg-l. I assume we agree that the rod / coil test showed : 1) Coil current decreases as the ferrite rod approaches the coil. 2) The rod's kinetic energy rises. 3) The coil's stored magnetic energy is constant. 4) The power supply has done less work. I will address these point again later. The second test is to show that both Epitxay's two magnet experiment is valid and that my air gap/ferrit flux path flux summing is correct. To verify this, I would suggest the following test setup : You will need : 2 x PM magnets. 5 x ferrite blocks (can be obtained by breaking up small ferrite "E" cores) Test 1 setup : FFFFNS NSFFFF (Ferrites used as a simple way to hold the magnets, not really needed) FF FF FF Observe pull on ferrite block then rearrange as follows : Test 2 setup : FFFFNS SNFFFF FF FF FF Observe pull is MUCH stronger in test 2 NS SN opposing config than in test 1 NS NS adding config. This happens because flux from the two magnets attempts to mix in the air gap as they are not confined within a ferrite. The flux in the NS SN opposing config distorts and flows heavily through the single ferrite block. Test 3 setup : FFFFNSFFFF FFFFNSFFFF (All ferrites needed) FF FF FF Observe pull on ferrite block then rearrange as fllows : Test 4 setup : FFFFNSFFFF FFFFSNFFFF FF FF FF Observe pull is weaker in test 4 FFNSFF FFSNFF opposing config than in test 3 FFNSFF FFNSFF adding config. Please note that the test 1/2 result is the opposite of the test 3/4 result. WHY? In test 1/2 flux summing occurs in the air gap and attraction in the opposing config is higher. The config will generate increased rotor attraction as the rotor of a flux gate motor / generator moves into the gap and is the next link in building a real DNMEC Over Unity Generator. In test 3/4, flux summing occurs in the ferrite and attraction in the opposing config is lower. This is the normal config used in almost all motor generator systems and explains why most will never be Over Unity. I have Gifs which show the four above tests. Let me know if you would like me to send you a set. This should help to further reduce list server traffic. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 05:37:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA04188; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:37:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:37:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:39:38 +0100 Message-Id: <199701141339.OAA27487@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: LC Tanks produce free magnetic energy ? Cc: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz Resent-Message-ID: <"m3b5M1.0.J11.-luso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1405 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Stefan, > >Unfortunately you seem to have cut and pasted some parts from my original= =20 >post, and others from my e-mail. This might inhibit a clear understanding= of=20 >the matters simplicity.=20 > >However, the FIRST question to resolve is: > >Does the original circuit (shown below), increase the sum of the electrical= =20 >charges contained in the two capacitors. > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D L1 > ---------------------/ \-000000 ----- > | | | > +ve | +ve > C1 | C2 > - ve --|< ------- -ve > | D1 | > --------------------------------------- > >Your responses (reversed) were: > >>snip >>But you are right, the electrical charge in both caps=20 >>added up is higher using the formular Q=3DCV ! >>snip > >I agree completely. Experimentally confirmed, this simple fact has great=20 >significance. And as we have seen no RATIONAL view to the contrary, logic= =20 >would seem to confirm our mutual understanding. =20 > >and; > >>snip >>Okay, but if you calculate the energy of both >>Caps via 2 x .5CV^2 at 7.8 Volts it is just 0,6084 Joules with both= Caps... >>So the energy in both caps is smaller than with the starting voltage in= C1... >>snip > >Of course, and this must be so. In discussing the second circuit in my=20 >original post that conclusion was implicit, and it applies to both= circuits.=20 >That is, we have REDUCED the TOTAL energy of the circuit, following the=20 >transfer of CHARGE from C1 to C2. You also noted: > >>> snip.................At this point, let's close S3, open S2, and close= S1. >> >>Yes, but at this point you have only transfered the remaining 0,3042= Joules >>from C2 into the coil ! Nothing more ? Or am I wrong ? >>snip > >Wrong. "ENERGY" is not transferred. Energy may be raised, lowered,=20 >transposed, transformed or used to accomplish WORK, but it is not=20 >"transferred". CHARGE is transferred, and in so doing it is neither=20 >consumed nor destroyed in the process. The only thing we "consume" is= TIME.=20 >Note also that in my original post I refer to the "transfer" of CHARGE, as= =20 >opposed to "transposed" energy from the capacitor, into the magnetic field= =20 >of the inductor. In the above discussion (i.e. the first step), we have=20 >agreed to LOWER the energy level of the circuit, by transferring CHARGE.= And=20 >as you so correctly pointed out yourself in a previous post: > >> >>But that is totally UNLOGICAL ! Charge CAN NOT BE DESTROYED ! >>So the sum of the charges must be the same as we had before >>in C1 alone !=20 >>Thus we get a FREE Magnetic ENERY inside the coil ! >>And that is the SURPLUS ENERGY ! > >Correct. You also noted in your recent post: > >>snip >>> Now let's measure the voltage across C1 and calculate again how much= charge >>> it contains. Let's also calculate the energy it now contains in the form= of >>> .5 CV^2 Joules. >> >> >>I suppose you can at maximum also only get the 0,3042 Joules transfered >>back into C1, so the energy stored in C1 would only be again=20 >>2 x 0,3042 Joules =3D 0,6084 Joules, so you have less energy as when you >>started... >> > >I refer you to your own explanation above (quote) "So the sum of the= charges=20 >must be the same as we had before in C1 alone !" (unquote). And I ask the= =20 >question: So what happened to the missing charge? Did we consume it? No,= =20 >and remember that the values of the capacitive elements have not changed.= =20 >That is, you seem to be suggesting, that at the end of the day, having=20 >transferred ALL of the charge back into C1 (which still has the same=20 >capacitance), we will somehow end up with less energy, and therefore LESS= =20 >CHARGE, than we started with in C1. If as you infer, we now have 0,2108=20 >LESS Joules in C1, we would seem to have somehow misplaced about 0,0177=20 >Coulombs of electrical charge somewhere! (Now why does that remind me of of= =20 >a line from "The Importance of being Ernest" :) > >Is that correct? Well, all I can say now, yes, that there is more CHARGE inside both Caps is an effect not expected ! Now as the discussion about the DNMEC effects takes place with Epi and Greg I would say, that it comes just only, because you use the relay with a ferrite ROD inside the coil and thus use the converted DNMEC energy to add this additional charge ! The caps would be really at lower voltages, if you used a normal coil and would have switched it with electronic transistor technic ! I am sure the mechanical RELAY plays the important role in adding the charge= ! > >There is a simple way to put back ALL of the charge into C1 (including that= =20 >which we acquired from the inductor's field), but until I can obtain the=20 >parts (I have to send away for them) and confirm it experimentally, I shall= =20 >leave you to think about it. Hmm, let me know more. Can=B4t think of an easy way right now !? The process to do it via the coil to get it back to C1 is too complicated I guess... Maybe you can switch the 2 caps in series when they are at 7.8 Volts and discharge them again into a 3rd cap and then restart the process by using= the 3rd cap as the input somehow ??? Do you understand what I mean ? >Regards all, > >Stuart Rae > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 05:48:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA05797; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:48:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:48:21 -0800 Message-ID: <32DB8D92.5945@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:13:46 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Simple PROOF of Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion ? References: <3.0.32.19970114045236.0099c9ec@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ra4EG2.0.JQ1.Ywuso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1406 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > At 09:24 PM 1/14/97 +1030, you wrote: > > > >The important elements of the ferrite / coil test are : > > >1) Power supply current drops as the ferrite approaches. > > I agree > > >2) Energy stored in the coil stays constant. > > I am not really sure about this. I agree that L increases as the ferrite > approaches and that the magnetic energy equals 0.5I^2, but unfortunately > the current decreases too. I am not sure that the 0.5LI^2 energy after the > ferrite is inside the coil is really the same as 0.5LI^2 energy when the > ferrite is away from the coil. Maybe part of the magnetic flux is consumed > to polarize the ferrite's domains. I am tempted to do coil energy recovery > experiment at this point, but the resistive losses pose a problem. Can you > offer any further theoretical insight on this problem or is the experiment > the only way. I agree resistive losses and ferrite domain align losses will consume energy. But these losses are very small during the time the rod takes to move 1 mm. These losses are required to be taken into account if you want to produce a device with the best efficiency but can be ignored in this discussion. If we assume a loss less coil and no losses aligning the domains, do you agree the coil energy stays constant even though the coil current drops. > >3) Less work is done by the Power supply during the approach phase. > > The power supply should not be doing any work once a desired current is > established in the coil. The only reason the power supply has to > constantly supply energy is to replenish the current dissipated in the > resistance of the coil. > And to provide current to maintain a constant flux in the face of a changing flux from the approaching rod. The coil idle current is related to the dc resistance of the coil not its inductance. If we had a coil with more turns then we would have a lower idle current and a greater current drop as a coil with more turns will generate a larger EMF for a fixed rate of change in the coil's flux. Forget about the idle current, a you said it is only resistance losses. > >4) The ferrite rod has greater kinetic energy. > > I agree. But didn't this energy come at an expense of the coils magnetic > flux consumed to polarize the ferrite's domains ? Isn't the 0.5LI^2 energy > lower because of this ? > No. The only energy used to accelerate the rod is that required to align the domains. > We really need to the coil energy recovery experiment here in order to > compare the energies of the coil before and after the ferrite is in. > Accounting for resistive losses will need to be done. I would propose > avoiding of charging the coil to the I=E/R steady current rate since once a > coil achieves that state we have nothing else except the resistive losses > in the coil wire. The coil will need to have maximum amount of windings > and minimum resistance (contradictory heh ?). What mechanical arrangement > do you propose ? What method of storage do you propose for the energy > recovered from the coil? That coils ATTEMPT to maintain constant flux density doesn't need to be tested. That what coils do. Thats why the current drops when the coils flux density increases. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 05:57:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA07421; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:57:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 05:57:20 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC022B.2E1F8C40@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: TIME Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:48:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RkJw8.0.sp1.-2vso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1407 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Found on an other listserver, thought this might be interesting. Cheers, Pete Art --- On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:50:48 -0800 Peter Beamish wrote: Postscript # 64 to the "Lanzarote" paper (01/11/97) "TIME" By Peter Beamish Ph.D. Time has never been properly defined. It is the enigma of both modern physics and philosophy. This reality now appears to be partly because we need new definitions for "scalar and vector quantities" as well as the total number of "dimensions" permissible in the universe in which we live. The latter is THREE orthogonal (at right angle) dimensions. It is impossible for the human mind to comprehend a fourth dimension that is at right angles to the other three! We can imagine four variables, in fact superstring theory requires ten variables, BUT THERE ARE ONLY THREE DIMENSIONS. The mathematics of "n-variable" matrices is sound, useful and necessary for updating a theory combining general relativity and quantum mechanics, the so called quantum theory of gravity. But the n-variables must fit into three dimensions of space or, as I will soon suggest, into three dimensions of "space-time." A problem with defining time stems from an unclear definition of scalar and vector quantities. In classical physics texts a "scalar" has magnitude only, whereas a "vector" has both magnitude and direction. But direction is not the only property of space (as shown by Einstein). And, direction can be attained by simply adding a prerequisite to magnitude that it varies in the "direction" upward or say "forward" (1 to 10) or, downward or say "backward" (10 to 1 or -1 to -10). In fact it is the nature of time in its classical sense (time associated with the rotation of the Earth) that a measurement of its scalar property is always forward (with possibly very rare exceptions in studies of antimatter). This has been known as the "Arrow of Time," which becomes a vector if we add the new prerequisite above which thereby converts a scalar into a vector. But if the Arrow of Time is a newly defined vector then in what spacial direction or dimension does this arrow point? This is the clue that leads directly to "three dimensional time." Newtonian physics is missing two dimensions of time and these dimensions by analogy to the three dimensions of space must be orthogonal to the Arrow of Time. The western world mapped the rotation of the Earth onto the Arrow of Time by Euclidian geometry. But most of the remainder of the world, knowing little of this geometry more commonly used a different type of time, one based on cyclical, physiological properties (postscript # 30). Cycles are two dimensional, analogous to rotating wheels. And these cycles are often of a different period than that of the Earth. For example the timing of human breathing is obviously independent of the timing of the Earth's rotation. We have thus defined two types of time and both are vectors based on the above definition; they total to three dimensions which are necessarily at right angles. This is a coordinate system with a rotating wheel, always in the present, but moving "forward" along the axis of classical time. It can be superimposed onto the three space coordinates to form space-time in three dimensions. When this happens ten variables emerge to satisfy the superstring theories. There are three space variables or dimensions and seven time variables, three as dimensions and four as Rhythm Based Communication, "window" variables on the gauge symmetric wheel of the new "Rhythm Based Time" (diagram 2 in "Lanzarote" paper *). This circle can be of any diameter so that it will satisfy the very small microphysics of quantum theory as well as the very large macrophysics of relativity and cosmology. * The "Lanzarote" paper entitled "Rhythm Based Communication," published by the Secretariat of the World Conference on Sustainable Ecosystems, is available from the above author for a contribution to ongoing communications research, including cetaceans, terrestrial mammals, birds (and potentially kingdom Plantae) at: Ceta-Research Inc, Box 10, Trinity, NFLD.A0C 2S0 Canada. There are 64 postscript abstracts relating to General Interpretations, Applied Uses, Biophysics, Medicine, Mathematics, Music, Quantum Physics and Spirituality. -----------------End of Original Message----------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 06:33:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA13108; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:33:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:33:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:36:05 +0100 Message-Id: <199701141436.PAA27795@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: vortex-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Reduce traffic ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, billb@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ZM2jC.0.hC3.favso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1408 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Scott Little suggested that messages about electromagnetic over unity >theories stay on Freenrg-L and not spill over to Vortex-L. > >Hank Scudder basically agreed with Scott Little. > >Hugh Heffner also agreed with Scott Little but suggested that topics like= the Yes, let us keep traffic down again and post electromagnetic DNMEC phenomena and simular stuff only to=20 freenrg-l@eskimo.com and important ones also to newman-l@emachine.com and Cold Fusion stuff and "2nd law" thermodynamic stuff to vortex-l@eskimo.com only ! I don=B4t want all this double traffic ! regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 06:33:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA13157; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:33:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:33:28 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:36:16 +0100 Message-Id: <199701141436.PAA27804@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Use right SUBJECTs ! Resent-Message-ID: <"NCkcH3.0.LD3.pavso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1409 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To all on freenrg-l@eskimo.com: Please use the right subjects on each posts ! With all the recent traffic overload, it is hard to capture up with all the emails, when you are looking for a special email and the subject is NOT right ! So please use everytime a different SUBJECT, that fits to your new email ! ALso please QUOTE LESS ! Other people can have a look at the archives to get the thread ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 06:34:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA13504; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:34:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:34:37 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:36:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199701141436.PAA27801@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Resonance catastrophe device ?! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@LocalAccess.com, newman-l@emachine.com, ralph.hartwell@emachine.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de Resent-Message-ID: <"LapnP1.0.cI3.xbvso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1410 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I just reformated this email so it gets not corrupted via broken lines.... What do you think of such a circuit ? Can it tap your DNMEC system ? Please read with an equally spaced font with this width ! <------------------------------------------------------------------> Side view ! *------------------------* coil L1 | | OOOOOOOOOOO Cap C1 | --------*------ +---------------+ +----------------+ | Permanent | nonmagnetic rod | Moving Electret| <---->| N S |-------------------|Dielectricum(DE)|<---> | Magnet (PM)| | (polarized) | +---------------+ +----------------+ spring --------*------ supported PM and DE OOOOOOOOOOO | | | *------------------------* I always thought about resonance catastrophes and now I have come up with such a circuit, which uses the parametrical excited resonance of a coil L1 and capacitor C1 with its moving inner parameters: a PM and a polarized Dielectricum (DE) (Electret)! The PM and the DE (Electret) are fixed via a nonmagnetic and nonmetallic rod, so they can move together in and out of the coil and cap and are spring supported. I have not yet thought about the polarities. Maybe the rod must be longer, so that the dielectricum must move OUT of the cap instead of into it, when the PM is moving into the coil ??? But one thing is a fact ! The resonance frequency of the mechanical combination PM and DE must have the same frequency as the electrical resonance frequency of the L1 and C1 circuit ! Can this circuit go resonate and will the oscillations enhance or damp down ??? Will this circuit blow up, cause the oscillations will rise and rise, til the current and voltage of the electrical circuit blow up the L1 C1 combination ? Please let me know your views ! Has anybody yet proposed such a circuit ? Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 06:42:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA15175; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:41:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:41:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:43:38 +0100 Message-Id: <199701141443.PAA27842@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Move Time Travel Theory away... Resent-Message-ID: <"BBYym.0.0j3.qivso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1411 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Please move the Time Travel Theory to another listserver email list ! Please reduce Traffic this way ! Thanks a lot for your understanding. regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 06:54:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA17070 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:54:53 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:54:53 -0800 X-Envelope-From: bshannon@tiac.net Tue Jan 14 06:54:50 1997 Received: from maildeliver0.tiac.net (maildeliver0.tiac.net [199.0.65.19]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA17052 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:54:50 -0800 Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id JAA14827 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:54:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from bshannon.tiac.net (bshannon.tiac.net [206.119.135.211]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with SMTP id JAA26894 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:54:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <32DB57DB.4DF@tiac.net> Old-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:54:35 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: test. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 07:00:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA18062 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:00:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:00:05 -0800 X-Envelope-From: kenseger@mtvernon1.accessus.net Tue Jan 14 07:00:01 1997 Received: from mtvernon1.accessus.net (root@mtvernon1.accessus.net [204.248.93.5]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA18034 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:00:00 -0800 Received: from preinstalledcom (stlouis-pm2-1-145.accessus.net [205.242.18.145]) by mtvernon1.accessus.net (8.8.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20620 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:58:28 -0600 Message-ID: <32DB9EBB.1690@mail.accessus.net> Old-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 08:56:59 -0600 From: Ken Seger Reply-To: kenseger@mtvernon1.accessus.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: My son subscribed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: My son subscribed to your group. Please remove kenseger@accessus.net from your email list. I will get him his own email address and he can resubscribe then. sincerely yours, Ken Seger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 07:01:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA18213; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:00:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:00:58 -0800 Message-ID: <32DB594B.50D5@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:00:43 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Additional PROOF of DNMEC ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yh35Y2.0.MS4.d-vso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1412 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a repost of a bounced message. My ISP has been ill, and I got auto unsubscribed it seems. ****************************************************************************** Greg Watson wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > Is there some new theory to address these questions? Greg replies: > Hi Bob, > > Part of the answer to DNMEC is to understand that opposing fluxes > when forced to flow within the confines of a ferrite flux path > will not cause flux distortion (They can't easily escape from the > good conduction path of the ferrite). They just sum their differences > and reduce overall flux density flowing in the conduction path. Odd, some time ago you posted exactly the opposite of this on this forum. In your post, you described that your simulations also showed that rather than superpose, flux WOULD jump over an air gap, outside the ferrite core. On Saturday, Jan 04 1997 you wrote: > Bob Shannon wrote: > > > > Grab a core and a spool of wire, and try it yourself. > Hi Bob, > > Enclosed are Quick Field files to simulate your example. After you > download and unzip the program, put the files in the example directory. > You can alter the 2 coil strengths by editing the LibData. Like you, > I have verified the data in reality. In fact, that post also included two .GIF's from your simulation. Also, I can easlily proove that this is an experimental fact. So you might see why I am quite confused that you now post "They can't easily escape from the good conduction path of the ferrite". This is apparently a direct contradiction, or significant misunderstanding. > When opposing fluxes mix in a air gap, flux distortion occurs and it > is the flux distortion that we must learn to use if we wish to move > toward Over Unity in moving magnetic systems. Err, changing B fields in free space undergo true vector superposition. Static ones act just like magnet poles (which they are) and a sheet of paper and iron filings will show these do not superpose. > My earlier GIFS and Epitxay's two magnet test show this effect is > real. But it is ONLY path of the puzzle. The puzzle just got more complicated it seems. Epitaxy's two magnet test can also be interpreted to show that there is more flux between opposed magnets, as your simulations have shown. What's the story here? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 07:02:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA18395; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:01:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:01:44 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:11:32 -0700 From: Purushottam Goel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply Resent-Message-ID: <"tNVTS2.0.BV4.M_vso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1413 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: If I'm not wrong, Einstein's Relativity does not state that time goes at the speed of light. Time is one of the four dimensions in which events take place. This 4 dimensional domain is the Space Time and any event can be defined by the space time coordinates. According to the theory of light cones, for a particular event in space time, the past light cone is the set of all events from where signals traveling at or below the speed of light can reach the event. Similarly the future light cone of this event is the set of all other events in space time which can receive signals traveling at or below the speed of light, from this event. The points not lying in the past or future light cones, are said as lying 'elsewhere'. The points in elsewhere do not have any effect on the past or future of this event. This clearly means that time is not traveling at the speed of light, otherwise there would be no region called elsewhere. For that matter, time does not have a speed, it is simply another dimension. Puru. >>> 01/11/97 07:19pm >>> >>>I believe that the sum total of the paper, and the results of the experiments was that time *is* a force, possibly a standing wave, or a scalar wave that travels 700 kilometers per second, plus or minus 50 km.>>> Einstein's Relativity states that it goes the speed of light. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 07:02:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA18431; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:01:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:01:55 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 20:45:30 -0700 From: Purushottam Goel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply Resent-Message-ID: <"Gxa-41.0.IV4.N_vso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1414 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, I agree to you Adam. Another point is that, suppose we dream that we are at some distant planet, our mind goes there instantly. But light takes a lot more time to reach that place from here. Does that mean something else has traveled faster than light - violating the basic conclusion of the theory of Relativity. Puru. >>> 01/12/97 08:01am >>> >>>>Have you ever dreamed?>>>> Yes, I do dream. How is this time travel? Does that mean that if I imagine the past I am actually there? Not at all! -Adam GRossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 07:02:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA18481; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:02:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:02:08 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 19:40:34 -0700 From: Purushottam Goel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jrtooker@freenet.calgary.ab.ca Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply Resent-Message-ID: <"oe9jm3.0.fW4.h_vso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1415 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Why don't you open an account in geocities and then put the text there for all those who are interested to download. More info on geocities can be had from http://www.geocities.com John, if you want, I can do that for you and send you relevant details on how to upload the document there. Puru. >>> "John R. Tooker" 01/12/97 04:56am >>> Actually, Nikolai Kozyrev, and his team, used a gyroscope from a military transport craft, and did a number of experiments with it to determine this. If you send me your snail mail address privately, I'd be happy to send you a copy of the paper. I'd send it as an attachment to this e-mail, but, since I use an internet account that uses a text only interface, I can't add it as an attachment. Hopefully, soon, (within 2-3 months) I should be able to have it available by ftp on a website I am setting up, as well. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 07:04:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA19058; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:04:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:04:27 -0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:21:33 -0700 From: Purushottam Goel To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, jrtooker@freenet.calgary.ab.ca Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply Resent-Message-ID: <"9FDkW1.0.Zf4.r1wso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1416 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: What do you mean by viewing the solar system from "above" ?? Could you please clear that. Puru >>> "John R. Tooker" 01/13/97 01:46am >>> On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>>Again, perhaps reading the paper would explain precisely what they mean. > I > was quoting directly from the paper.>>>> > > Does it say that the universe is spinning in the paper? Because it sure > sounds like it. > > I believe that, possibly, he meant that, instead of the whole universe spinning, that the general prefeered direction of rotation is to the left inside the universe. If I recall correctly, if viewed from above, our solar system is rotating counter clockwise. That kind of "levorotation". That is, if I'm interpreting his paper correctly. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 07:32:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA24435; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:32:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:32:01 -0800 Message-Id: <199701141531.KAA00716@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 10:30:32 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Netiquette (was Re: Use right SUBJECTs !) In-Reply-To: <199701141436.PAA27804@mail.bbtt.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.22 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"fG9Wc.0.fz5.kRwso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1417 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >to your new email ! ALso please QUOTE LESS ! Since we are on the subject: 7 lines of signature is a bit excessive >-- >Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann >Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany >NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: >harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de >Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de >Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de >My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com Charlie -- Real programmers use cp /dev/tty a.out. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 07:40:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA26212; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:40:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 07:40:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199701141539.KAA00966@transfer.stratus.com> From: Charlie Hodgson Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 10:37:30 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TIME In-Reply-To: <01BC022B.2E1F8C40@art.xs4all.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.22 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"MC8w83.0.PP6.FZwso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1418 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <01BC022B.2E1F8C40@art.xs4all.nl>, on 01/14/97 at 02:48 PM, Pete Art said: > Time has never been properly defined. It is the enigma of both >modern physics and philosophy. >superstring theory requires ten variables, BUT THERE ARE ONLY THREE >DIMENSIONS. This is not proven - some astrophysicists believe that what goes in black holes emerge from quasars - some hidden link. This does not fit in the "THERE ARE ONLY THREE DIMENSIONS" model. Charlie -- An ounce of application is worth a ton of abstraction. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 09:15:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA14922; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:15:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:15:27 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 19:05:10 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: LC Tanks...Energy and Time Lines: 32 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fWqTI1.0.2f3.jyxso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1419 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) wrote: Re: LC Tanks produce free magnetic energy ? < Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 20:28:29 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Resonance catastrophe device ?! Lines: 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_cRwo2.0.jL4.CByso"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1420 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, there is patent on this topic. Author Ferdinand Cap, 1986, Parametric Electric Machine, US patent number 4,622,510 Nov.11, 1986. It is not just the same but idea is very close to your idea. In his patent the capacitor has a rotor plates and stator plates. Rotor is rotated by some external motor. So, capacity is changing. Coil is connected in parralel with this capacitor. Load also is connected. By author, this scheme must produce resonance oscillations in a wire of coil and power in load. Power input for motor must be small. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 11:38:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA12069; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:38:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:38:30 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:37:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970114143747_1623542310@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Homepage/mail list Resent-Message-ID: <"uGBEG2.0.Ry2.p2-so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1421 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Great! I'm signing up right now! :) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 11:40:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA12410; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:39:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:39:53 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:39:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970114143903_440783018@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"a_vAK3.0.e13.54-so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1422 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Or even that the string that it's hanging on has a tendency to untwist that way!!>>> Very true. I hadn't thought of that. :) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 11:52:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA14853; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:51:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 11:51:47 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:50:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970114144901_579263811@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply Resent-Message-ID: <"wMvTo3.0.rd3.7F-so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1423 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>If I'm not wrong, Einstein's Relativity does not state that time goes at the speed of light. Time is one of the four dimensions in which events take place. This 4 dimensional domain is the Space Time and any event can be defined by the space time coordinates.>>>> Yes...but it was stated that the 3 dimentions of space are traveling at the speed of light through the fourth dimention of time. I think this was first brought up by...OH! What was his name!... the one who showed that time can be thought of as a fourth dimention (No, not Einstein). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 13:09:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA01378; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:09:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 13:09:15 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:08:31 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701142108.WAA16260@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply Resent-Message-ID: <"Wr9Qf3.0.fK.rN_so"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1424 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Puru wrote: > >Another point is that, suppose we dream that we are at some >distant planet, our mind goes there instantly. But light takes a lot >more time to reach that place from here. Does that mean >something else has traveled faster than light - violating the basic >conclusion of the theory of Relativity. > Yes I suppose that would be what is meant. As I see it, you would have to get outside the 'three dimensional' universe, into a different dimension, which allows 'jumping' from one point in physical space to another instantaneously, that is, without the limitation of the speed of light. Thoughts do not obey the speed of light limitation. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 14:09:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA15753; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:09:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:09:07 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC026F.E7DD59C0@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com'" Subject: RE: TIME Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:05:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KPM5h3.0.lr3._F0to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1425 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry Chuck but those are Not my words! My belief is that there are indeed more dimensions and that, to some degree, those are indeed engineerable (see Seike). Cheers, Pete ---------- From: Charlie Hodgson[SMTP:chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com] Sent: dinsdag 14 januari 1997 16:37 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TIME In <01BC022B.2E1F8C40@art.xs4all.nl>, on 01/14/97 at 02:48 PM, Pete Art said: > Time has never been properly defined. It is the enigma of both >modern physics and philosophy. >superstring theory requires ten variables, BUT THERE ARE ONLY THREE >DIMENSIONS. This is not proven - some astrophysicists believe that what goes in black holes emerge from quasars - some hidden link. This does not fit in the "THERE ARE ONLY THREE DIMENSIONS" model. Charlie -- An ounce of application is worth a ton of abstraction. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 14:12:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA16159; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:11:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:11:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32DC02E8.5CAC@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:34:24 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: EMF summing Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------400E4E866246" Resent-Message-ID: <"Pz5Pm1.0.Ny3.XI0to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1426 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------400E4E866246 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Thanks to Scott Little I realized my original crude drawing is correct. As I said before too many late hours. I have attached a drawing which should clear this matter up. If in doubt, do the experiment & verify the results. It is IMPORTANT to understand that a coil produces EMF (Voltage) as a result of a change in the flux flowing through the coil. Current flow is the result of the dynamics of the electrical load the coil's EMF sees. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------400E4E866246 Content-Type: image/gif; name="summing.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="summing.gif" R0lGODlhegFlAvcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPz8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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PNvlBKdJEr1PhngsHDZdqc1k7hFWOxol7pQpznFGE5qISicqnVnMCIKSnffEZz71uU9+9tOf /wQoQAMCADs= --------------400E4E866246-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 14:24:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA19447; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:24:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:24:33 -0800 Message-ID: <32DBC13A.6213@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:24:11 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply References: <199701142108.WAA16260@korovev.stm.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a6ZQx2.0.kl4.UU0to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1427 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Josef Hasslberger wrote: > > Puru wrote: > > > >Another point is that, suppose we dream that we are at some > >distant planet, our mind goes there instantly. But light takes a lot > >more time to reach that place from here. Does that mean > >something else has traveled faster than light - violating the basic > >conclusion of the theory of Relativity. > > > Yes I suppose that would be what is meant. > As I see it, you would have to get outside the 'three dimensional' > universe, into a different dimension, which allows 'jumping' from one point > in physical space to another instantaneously, that is, without the > limitation of the speed of light. Thoughts do not obey the speed of light > limitation. Ahh, but the speed of light limitation does not apply to just anything, only mass! Information is not so restricted, as evidenced by the behavior of pair coupled particles. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 14:27:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA20184; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:27:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:27:36 -0800 Message-ID: <32DBC1ED.69D6@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:27:09 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Homepage/mail list References: <970114143747_1623542310@emout09.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_UYFF2.0.1x4.IX0to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1428 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > Great! I'm signing up right now! :) > -Adam Grossman Could someone please post the original message to my email account? I would like to have the info on the list and web page. I've had an ISP problem, and missed several messages it seems. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 15:04:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA01857; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:03:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:03:55 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:58:35 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: Purushottam Goel Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MV9PB.0.wS.P31to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1429 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Ok, say we were, theoretically, floating out in space, in the same orbit as the Earth, on the plane of the ecliptic. We were oriented so that our heads are on the side of the plane that corresponds to the side the Earths north pole is on. We then rise above the plane in that direction, and look down. Viewpoint XX Earth *** ***** *** North ******************************************************************************* ***** *** *** Sun >From this point, if I recall my astronomy correctly, the planets apear to be orbiting the sun counter clockwise. John ******************************************************************************* Are you in to REAL time travel? How about building a working time machine? Why not check out http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/index-2.html ? ******************************************************************************* Do you want to earn extra money at home with your computer? Then check out http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/4012 for some great opps! ******************************************************************************* On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Purushottam Goel wrote: > > What do you mean by viewing the solar system from "above" ?? > > Could you please clear that. > > Puru > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 15:07:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA02630; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:07:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:07:10 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:04:19 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Move Time Travel Theory away... In-Reply-To: <199701141443.PAA27842@mail.bbtt.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0kDHd.0._e.U61to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1430 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Can do! I'm just getting a small scripting problem dealt with, then I will be quite happy to steer the time travel enthusiasts there. It might take a day or two, but I'm working on it. Thanks for your patience! :) Take care. :) John ******************************************************************************* Are you in to REAL time travel? How about building a working time machine? Why not check out http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/index-2.html ? ******************************************************************************* Do you want to earn extra money at home with your computer? Then check out http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/4012 for some great opps! ******************************************************************************* On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Please move the Time Travel Theory > to another listserver email list ! > > Please reduce Traffic this way ! > > Thanks a lot for your understanding. > > > regards, Stefan. > -- > Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann > Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany > NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 > email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de > Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de > Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de > My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com > > > > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 15:37:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA08460; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:37:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:37:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32DC0736.49@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:52:46 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Newmam machine and DNMEC principle now ! References: <199701141348.HAA05384@natashya.eden.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"C60Fq2.0.342.WY1to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1431 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Scott Little wrote: > > At 08:16 AM 1/14/97 +1030, Greg Watson wrote (ACROSS FOUR DISCUSSION GROUPS, > DAMN YOU): > > >...The coil will resist this by generating an EMF (voltage) > >which will resist the current now flowing. The result is the coil > >current dropping to 5ma, the energy stored in the field staying constant > and >the ferrite rod having increased kinetic energy. Nice effect, yes? > > You've got the current drop right, but there is no energy gain in the > ferrite rod's motion. Conservation of energy is at work in pulling the > ferrite rod up to the coil. Remember the energy stored in the mag field is > (1/2)B*V^2 where V is the volume of space that the B fills. As the rod > approaches the coil, the B tries to increase but doesn't very fast...but the > V DECREASES real fast since the ferrite rod is "trapping" all the B that > used to fan out into the surrounding space. Thus the stored magnetic field > energy is decreasing and this is manifested as a force that pulls the > ferrite rod toward the coil. Any kinetic energy gained by the rod came from > the magnetic field. If the flux density flowing through the coil is now lower, then coil current must increase to replace this lost energy. But the coil current drops. Have verified by simulation that the flux density and permeability of the rod increase as the rod moves closer to the coil. As H flowing through the rod increases, the rod moves up the B/H curve and produces more B than before. If the coil were driven by a source of constant current B field energy would increase. Remember that as the rod approaches, the coil sees a better flux path through the rod and the rod b field increases as well. You seem to understand magnetics well. > P.S. As our honorable list owner has requested, please stop posting yr > messages to more than one discussion group. Choose one group for each message. > Hi Scott, Sorry for the overload. I got it as well. I only now post to freenrg. What are your comments on the flux summing experiments? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 15:37:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA08500; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:37:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:37:16 -0800 Message-ID: <32DC08D6.1A15@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:59:42 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Second DNMEC Test References: <199701141436.PAA27792@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hO-VP2.0.b42.gY1to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1432 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >I have Gifs which show the four above tests. Let me know if you > >would like me to send you a set. This should help to further reduce > >list server traffic. > > > > Please send me the GIFs and use less than 8 characters > for their names ! > Have done. Will try posting to the group. It is less than 40K. According to Bill it should get through. > Thanks a lot in advance. > > I guess, here you have really invented something new ! > > BTW, does QuickField also reproduce DYNAMIC magnetic systems > or only STATIC magnet configurations ? > Is it based on differential equatations ? Hi Stephan, Only static simulations, but that is not really a problem if you do a step by step analysis and understand the results of the changes. It will report the flux density linking turns and so coil induced EMF can be calculated and fed back into the coil current data to mod the coil results. Yes differential. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 15:37:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA08516; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:37:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:37:23 -0800 Message-ID: <32DC16F4.326D@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:59:56 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Newmam machine and DNMEC principle now ! References: <3.0.32.19970114073805.009c3ad8@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GAkyG2.0.y42.kY1to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1433 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Hey Greg my reply to the volume of the magnetic field issue is: > > Yes the volume decreases BUT the flux density increases since it is > concentrated by the ferrite in a smaller volume. > > Do you still maintain that the coil's magnetic energy is the same with or > without the ferrite in it ? Hi Epitaxy, In a non moving config, yes the coil energy will go up. In a moving config, no. The coil energy will stay as constant as the coil can keep it. Moving and static configs are very different. Remember we are talking about a moving rod, not a stationary one. The inductance of the rod is greater with the rod in the middle. We all know that. At a constant voltage the H (A/M) is magnetizing force is also constant. With no rod in the coil, the coil has a permeability of 1 and the B field flux will be the same as the H magnetizing force. With the rod inserted the, the H magnetizing force is still constant, but the B field is now many times greater due to the aligned domains in the rod. The difference is the permeability for the rod at the H magnetizing force. The H magnetizing force is related to the current flowing and the number of turns in the coil. The idle current (When flux is not changing) is related to the coil's DC resistance. If we double the number of turns, the idle current drops to half, but the H magnetizing force stays constant. The inductance of the coil has now gone up 4 times as inductance is related to the square of the number of turns. The B field energy stays the same as it is related to changes in the H force and the permeability. As we now have twice the number of turns on the coil it will now generate twice the EMF for a fixed change in B field density. Stored energy has doubled as it is related to the inductance and current squared. (Inductance up x4 and current down x2). Any way that's just coil dynamics. Sometimes better to have a small low resistance coil, sometimes better to have a big high resistance coil. If you only plan to put energy into the system, then a small coil is better, but if you plan to get energy out of the system, the a large coil may be the answer. There are threads here which tie into Newman. A coil will ATTEMPT to maintain the flux density flowing through it constant. I fully believe that and have verified it by simulation and actual experimentation. If this didn't happen, nothing which relies on magnetic induction to work would work. In our moving rod experiment, the current drop is the result of the flux flowing through the coil increasing. The coil will attempt to keep flux constant by reducing its own flux. The only way a coil can reduce flux is by reducing the H magnetizing force (by reducing current). Remember B = H/R where R is reluctance (1 / permeability). I don't want to get into formulas here, they are not necessary to understand the mechanics. Just remember, coils work very hard to maintain a constant flux density. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 15:44:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA10716 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:44:07 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:44:07 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Tue Jan 14 15:43:56 1997 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA10591 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:43:49 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp42.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.170]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id KAA08088 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:43:28 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32DC172A.189B@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:00:50 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4E0FC75771A" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4E0FC75771A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------4E0FC75771A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <32DB884F.3749@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:51:20 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@mail.enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@mail.enternet.com.au Subject: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6C9C3696DFD" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6C9C3696DFD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Attached are the four Gifs for the second test of my DNMEC experiments. Ferrite block attraction is as follows : Test 1 (FFNS NSFF Adding flux) 1.2 Newtons Test 2 (FFNS SNFF Opposing flux) 56 Newtons Test 3 (FFNSFF FFNSFF Adding flux) 9 Newtons Test 4 (FFNSFF FFSNFF Opposing flux) 5 Newtons These tests will vary with the length of the ferrite between the magnets and the air gap. With a very short length of ferrite, operation can change from test 3/4 to test 1/2. There is a critical length where the change over occurs, but this will vary with the actual design. If possible you need to get the magnet / coil in a flux gate design to have one of their poles directly in the air gap to achieve the best result. This DNMEC effect is REAL. Before you comment further, PLEASE try the experiment. Then think about what it means. 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05q+1Y5tPv/G6mtWec+AZO9KL3tUBLJ2r+OWNYJTR+6+apHc76bhurfbpTCaWMEhfnWwBRrh Xusa0P6Wqy5Xte1v6vLaSADHMcKRvNCBG1zPDxfz+rR96Lo20MwjzDOeM77B23a849KyeFFt O3L7CVrj/4Z0ysnZbIxvfH8ih/nJ+bzxc0pc0dTFec6LGt2Ltxzl+QsIADs= --------------6C9C3696DFD-- --------------4E0FC75771A-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 15:48:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA12198; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:48:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:48:25 -0800 Message-ID: <32DBD4C0.6916@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:47:28 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: gwatson@enternet.com.au Subject: Re: EMF Summing & DNMEC proof? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zFc1Q2.0.S-2.7j1to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1434 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks to Scott Little I realized my original crude drawing is correct. > As I said before too many late hours. I have attached a drawing which > should clear this matter up. Original drawing? Ok, I've had ISP problems, and missed a few messages, but... The drawings attrached to Greg's "EMF Summing" email show the result (vector superposition) of electrical currents from two batteries in a series circuit with a load. This is not a correct description of the actual behavior of magnetic fields however. >From my post of Thu, 02 Jan 1997: > Stephan Hartman asked: > >Would the magnetic flux not just superimpose each other ? > > No, opposed magnetic flux circuits (from pole to opposit pole) do not > superpose in quite the same manner as electronic currents do. > > If you take a closed magnetic core (ferrite, etc) and wind two coils, > one on each end of the core, but with opposite windings, you will find > that rather than superpose, the opposed flux from each coil will find a > lower magnetic impeadance by jumping the gap between coils. > > For a rectangular core, it looks something like this: > > xxxxxxxxxxxxxx L1, left handed wound. > x ~ x L2, right handed wound. > xxx ~ xxx > x x ~ x x L1, L2 conected in series, AC driven. > x x L1 ~ x x L2 > x x ~ x x ~ > xxx ~ xxx ~ - magnetic "arc", outside core. > x ~ x ~ > xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > We might think that the flux from L1 would be canceled by L2, and form a > net non-inductor, but this is not the case. > > In practice we will find that the flux from L1 jumps from the upper arm > of the core to the lower arm, while the flux from L2 makes a parallel > jump from the lower arm to the upper. > > The magnetic flux simply refused to remain constrained to the core > material when presented with a equal, but opposite flux if we try to sum > the flux from complete coils. (macropoles) The result is a magentic > "arc" of two flux paths, each bypassing the other coil. This is shown > by the vertical columb of "~'s" in the center of core. > Opposing the macroscopic fields of coils or magents does not cause the > magnetic flux to superpose. Such superposition must be performed on the > magentic fields of each conductor of an electromagnet. > > Forcing opposed poles of permanent magnets together simply produces a > highly distorted field, but does not acheive superposition as many seem > to imply in their designs. > > Grab a core and a spool of wire, and try it yourself. > On Sat, 04 Jan 1997 Greg posted in reply: > Enclosed are Quick Field files to simulate your example. After you > download and unzip the program, put the files in the example directory. > You can alter the 2 coil strengths by editing the LibData. Like you, > I have verified the data in reality. > > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson, This shows apparent agreement with my posting of Thu, 02 Jan 1997. Yet on Tue, 14 Jan 1997 Greg also posted: > Part of the answer to DNMEC is to understand that opposing fluxes > when forced to flow within the confines of a ferrite flux path > will not cause flux distortion (They can't easily escape from the > good conduction path of the ferrite). They just sum their differences > and reduce overall flux density flowing in the conduction path. So some significant degree of confusion remains! Either opposed flux undergo vector superposition or not. Either flux acts like current as Mr. Watson states in his Tue, 14 Jan 1997 email, or does not as is also stated in the Sat, 04 Jan 1997 email, with attached simulations, and claims of verification "in reality". Magnetic flux will prefer a longer free space path external to the ferrite than to undergo vector superposition. Electrical currents do not act in this manner, and the electrical model in Greg's posting of 14 Jan 1997 is not a correct model for magnetic systems. I think we should resolve the question of which description is correct: The opposed poles of permanent magnets in close proximity does not cause vector superposition of magnetic flux. This has been confirmed experimentally, and also illustrated by Greg's simulations. This covers the actual behavior of opposed flux in free space (air gap). Opposed flux within ferrite, or other magnetic manifolds will not undergo vector superposition, as the flux will leave the ferrite or other magnetic manifold. This has also been confirmed experimentally, and also illustrated by Greg's simulations. This describes the actual behavior of opposed flux in ferrite, or other magnetic manifolds (iron or other materials). Net magnetization may drop in specific parts of a magnetic manifold, but only because the flux can and does leave the manifold rather than undergo vector superposition. Total flux is conserved, with none lost to superposition as is claimed in Greg's post of 14 Jan 1997. I think the direct contradictions here will cause great confusion. The drawings (of electrical circuits) used to support the claim of vector superposition of magnetic flux (in the 14 Jan post "Additional PROOF of DNMEC over unity operation" only deepens this confusion. Should anyone care to conduct a very simple experiment (described in my post "Flux switching devices" of 02 Jan (the experiment shown in the ascii art above) you can quickly see what the true behavior is in reality. If the magnetic flux did behave as Mr. Watson claims in his "Additional PROOF of DNMEC over unity operation" post, permanent magnets would not levitate over a superconductor, as the opposed flux between magnet and superconductor would sum to zero, and the magnet would fall under the effects of gravity. In reality, it does not fall as there is no vector superoposition (summing) of opposed flux in free space. This in combination with the simple experiment above, which covers the case where opposed flux meets in a ferrite or other material shows that again, there is no superposition of magnetic flux. The application of the series circuit does not correctly describe the behavior of magnetic flux, and is invalid as a model of magnetic flux interactions. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it until proven otherwise. Please don't be fooled by my words or Mr. Watson's, we both may be completely wrong here. Try the experiments and find the actual truth of the matter. You can change the geometery all you wish, but magnetic flux only acts one way. The actual behavior of magnetic flux may cast epaxity's experiments with opposed magnets and a turn table in a different light. Of course two magnets attract the plate more than only one, as there is more magnetic flux, not less due to opposition. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 15:58:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA14471; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:57:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 15:57:41 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 18:57:29 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory In-Reply-To: <970114143903_440783018@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jw7GV2.0.yX3.nr1to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1435 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all... I have a question about transendential equations. As far as i know _ANY_ simple transendential equation cannot be solved analytically. These types of equations must be solved numerically, or graphically, or by using approximations for equation expansions. For example: What is the solution set of: y = e^y ??? Of course, no alegbraic manipulation can be done to solve for y and isolate values, but plotting y = x and y = e^x on the same graph and solving for the intercept will give the solution set (Try it)... I was wondering if anybody knows of a proof that shows it is not possible to solve these types of equations analytically... Thanx John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 16:33:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA24136; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:32:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:32:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970114163320.006b7de4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:33:22 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: EMF Summing & DNMEC proof? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"OhmmJ2.0.1v5.iM2to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1436 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Bob You are mistaking apples and oranges. Greg's drawing from Jan 14 was posted by him to illustrate the ELECTRICAL current (vector superposition) NOT magnetic flux superposition. This is the reason why his post bares a tittle " EMF Summing..." the E in EMF stands for ELECTRO... Greg was illustrating the electrical current in an electrical circuit with an inductor and power supply. The purpose of this was to explain why power supply current drops in response to a ferrite approaching the coil. THE GIF (Jan 14) HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAGNETIC FLUX SUPERPOSITION IN A MANIFOLD. At 06:47 PM 1/14/97 +0000, you wrote: >Greg Watson wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Thanks to Scott Little I realized my original crude drawing is correct. >> As I said before too many late hours. I have attached a drawing which >> should clear this matter up. > > >Original drawing? > >Ok, I've had ISP problems, and missed a few messages, but... > >The drawings attrached to Greg's "EMF Summing" email show the result >(vector superposition) of electrical currents from two batteries in a >series circuit with a load. > >This is not a correct description of the actual behavior of magnetic >fields however. > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 16:59:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA30789; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:59:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:59:30 -0800 Date: 14 Jan 97 19:51:27 EST From: Chris Malcheski <71232.360@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Time Travel Homepage/mail list Message-ID: <970115005127_71232.360_GHL111-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"xN48M2.0.yW7.ml2to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1437 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Howdy, I checked out that web page and saw nothing related to time travel. It was all standard introductory UFO stuff. -- Chris From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 17:08:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA01324; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:08:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:08:39 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:07:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970114200744_878938481@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply Resent-Message-ID: <"_CESv3.0.4K.Ju2to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1438 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Another point is that, suppose we dream that we are at some >distant planet, our mind goes there instantly. But light takes a lot >more time to reach that place from here. Does that mean >something else has traveled faster than light - violating the basic >conclusion of the theory of Relativity. That's like imagining a place or word...that doesn't mean your mind actually GOES there... -Adam GRossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 17:12:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA02623; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:12:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:12:44 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:12:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970114201138_1560254973@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply Resent-Message-ID: <"7QEgz1.0.se.9y2to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1439 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: <> Where did you get this? This makes no sense. THoughts are just chemical and electrical signals in the brain, and they must go slower (Actually, in the brain's case, MUCH slower) than the speed of light....even if thoughts DIDN'T use any known form of energy you would still need proof that they go faster than light (Einstein's Relativity proved that any energy must go slower than light. And this isn't a "law" like when people thought you could never break the speed limmit. If you went the speed of light, it would take infinite energy, and you would become infinitly massive.) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 18:01:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA20184; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:27:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:27:36 -0800 Message-ID: <32DBC1ED.69D6@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:27:09 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Homepage/mail list References: <970114143747_1623542310@emout09.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_UYFF2.0.1x4.IX0to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1428 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > Great! I'm signing up right now! :) > -Adam Grossman Could someone please post the original message to my email account? I would like to have the info on the list and web page. I've had an ISP problem, and missed several messages it seems. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 20:53:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA14102; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:53:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:53:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:54:56 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970114225055.1c078710@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: LC Tanks produce free magnetic energy ? Resent-Message-ID: <"ILCbZ2.0.FS3.DB6to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1440 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>> Consider the following circuit. >>> >>> S1 L >>> a----X--------OOOOOOO------------b >>> | | | | >>> - | | | | >>> --- X S2 X S3 --- >>> --- C1 | | --- C2 >>> + | | | | >>> | | | | >>> c--------------------------------d >>> >>> Where; >>> C1 & C2 are Capacitors, >>> S1 S2 & S3 are on/off switches, >>> L is an Inductance, >>> and a b c d are circuit reference points. >>> > >Yes, I agree, that is the energy we have won for FREE ! > >Is that right ? Is that really that simple ??? > >If yes, that is probably also one principle of the Methernitha >Testatika device ! > >Can somebody prove that right or wrong via an actual experiment , please ? > How about this... A practical aplication already in use billions of times over. Every radio receiver uses an antena of some nature. The object is to grab the radiated energy from the air [placed there by a transmiter] and use this energy as the receivers input. All antenas show over unity if the you just fail to consider the radiated energy. The LCR simulation software does NOT concider radiated energy. Any atempt to use the magnetic energy "residuial" in and around the coil results in equal loss to tank energy. Electrical engeneers know this and use it on a daily bassis. The magnetic energy is an intrical part of the tank circuit operation. There is a method for controling the horisantal size in a TV or monitor that uses an aditional coil to tap off this energy reducing the efficency of deflection circuit, and reducing the horizantal width. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 20:54:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA14280; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:54:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:54:20 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:55:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970114225134.1c0786a6@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Simulation software Resent-Message-ID: <"Perj93.0.0V3.wB6to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1441 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: REALITY CHECK Simulation software is designed and writen using given theory and mathmatical rythem. This is a great desing tool, great educational tool, but don't ask the software writer to gues what you are HYPOTHISIZING. The software is not a creative thinker it just does math. Software will not show over unity because it is writen under the asumption you are testing in a closed system. To observe OU one MUST build the thing then TEST TEST TEST it. Science in no game, and if you leave somthing out you may become the subject of much laughter. Cover all bases and record everything. Make your UO expariment REPEATABLE. Use the software to help visualize, or wead out the losses after the energy has ben converted. Please let none be insulted, and keep on discussing your hypothisies. Any of us may benifit from one members idias. No mater how weard it sounds. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 20:55:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA14646; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:55:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:55:18 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:56:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970114225218.1c07854a@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: LC tank and antena systems Resent-Message-ID: <"lWwH8.0.Za3.mC6to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1442 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greetings : I have ben working along the lines of LC tank circuits and increasing the efficency of antennas Also the backround energy whithin the earths magnetic field. to posibly cuplicate the earth resonance receiver. All of the information I have seen and heard about it has follows the same profile. The thing uses two coils of differant diameter, and a magnet that is placed in the center. It must be in the correct polarity. and the device must be paralel to the ground. The inventer/s cannot competantly discuss its operation. I have ben atempting to re-produce the device and further explain its behavior. I will be posting any new information I have aquired on this list. I will provide fully documented exparimental information, so that any thing I do will be repeatable. Based on some gues work I have built a small working device that produces a 300mV p-p output at the beat frequancy of a cople of local radio stations. Aproximatly 2.6 Mhz. The coils are of diferant diameter and hooked up in opisite polarity. I drew the magnetic lines on paper because I could not get any decent 2D magnetic programs that don't require massive system upgrade. My 386 system is a screeming litle machiene, until I allow BILL GATES to remove all of its usefullness by starting Windows. Therefore, I wold like somone to plot this and let me know if I am right or wrong. ___ AIR GAP_________ / \ / \ xxx ooo mmm xxx ooo xxx ooo mmm xxx ooo | | | | | | | MAGNET | | \ \__ INNER COIL_/ / \_______OUTER COIL___________/ The oposing current whithin the two coils tends to pull or focus magnetic lines into the air gap between the coils. This causes an increase in flux dencity and apers to make the whole assembly MORE sensitive, then a free standing coil. The magnet serves two perposes. First as a flux inhibitor to tune the coils. Second is when the coil is inserted a small current flows in the tank circuits that starts the focusing action. A third may be to bias the field in an upward or downward direction. The air gap is important. The magnet is important. Claims I have herd boast 100W output whith a eight inch diameter system that is tuned to the earths resonance. Any EM relieced below about 30 Mhz at a low angle of elevation is perminantly traped inside the earths ionasphere. Also I understand that the earths magnetic field was disterbed by a LARG meteor strike some millions of years ago and it is still ringing. I intend to tap into this and use it. Is this energy free... NO. Can we use it... YES. Is it renewable.. MABY. Is it exaustable... PROBABLY. Shuld we use it.. FIRST COME FIRST SERVE. There shuld be enough to power our lives for quite some time. but like oil. It probably takes much longer to make then it does for us to use it up. The benifit is that we will learn. and a repeatable sucess can only add hope and credability to the group. I wold like to plot the fields around this thing, if anyone can point me to some software that preforms in either windows 3.1 or messy DOS I wold apriciate it greatly. Thanks. Charles Ford. clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 20:55:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA14693; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:55:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 20:55:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:56:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970114225243.1c07e104@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: DNMEC --> will it be 5mA or 15mA ? Resent-Message-ID: <"YFOke.0.Tb3.0D6to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1443 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:40 AM 1/13/97 -0800, you wrote: > >I can't ignore Stefan's argument; You pump 10mA through the coil, attract >a ferrite in the hole, and get only 5ma back plus increased ferrite's >momentum. No energy gain here. > >How about idealizing this situation and eliminating the external power >supply for simplicity of analysis. > >Use ideal (ie. superconductive coil). Charge it up with 10mA and >*disconnect* the power supply totally. At this point, the 10mA current in >the coil will persist forever without the power supply because there is no >resistance to dissipate it. Now, the ferrite is attracted into the hole >in the coil and the coil current DECREASES to 5ma but the ferrite gains >mechanical momentum. We just bought the ferrite's momentum with the 5mA >current loss from the coil. No energy gain here. > >Do you claim the coil current is INCREASED to 15mA instead ? >If you do, than you may have something here ! > > We may be onto somthing here. I have no means to aquire superconductive materials for exparimentation, but... if I understand [Meisner Effect]... one shuld be able to find a starting current whare the a pasing magnet will cause a zero current moment, allowing meisner effect to eject the pasing magnet, INCREASING the mechanical energy. One may be able to setup a mechanical oscilation and extract usable power from the mechanical oscilation. Whare dows this energy come from ??? eh ??? who knows, who cares. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 14 21:19:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA19550; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:18:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:18:52 -0800 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:19:34 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: LC tank and antena systems Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"1fPPp.0.Jn4.wY6to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1444 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles; Enjoyed you ideas on a resonant coil. I have plenty of wire and access to magnets of a variety of shapes. Should a little time free up, I would like to do some experimentation. Please keep me informed of you work. Byrun Fox. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 00:03:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA26153; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:00:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:00:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:54:55 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Time Travel Homepage/mail list In-Reply-To: <970115005127_71232.360_GHL111-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Hq1C33.0.WO6.Tw8to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1445 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Perhaps you should check in what the web page owner calls "Galactick Info" and "Galactick Technology". Those sections have the time machine info, both a description and some illustrations. John Are you in to REAL time travel? How about building a working time machine? Why not check out http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/index-2.html ? Do you want to earn extra money at home with your computer? Then check out http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/4012 for some great opps! On 14 Jan 1997, Chris Malcheski wrote: > > Howdy, > > I checked out that web page and saw nothing related to time travel. It was all > standard introductory UFO stuff. > > -- Chris > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 00:04:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA27410; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:04:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:04:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:58:20 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: Time Travel Homepage/mail list In-Reply-To: <970115005127_71232.360_GHL111-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xRHdW1.0.7i6._z8to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1446 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi all. :) I *think* that I may have the mailing list html straightened out, though when I tried testing it, it couldn't connect to the remote host. Hopefully, this is temporary. Take care all. :) John Are you in to REAL time travel? How about building a working time machine? Why not check out http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/index-2.html ? Do you want to earn extra money at home with your computer? Then check out http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/4012 for some great opps! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 01:08:05 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA15753; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:09:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:09:07 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC026F.E7DD59C0@art.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com'" Subject: RE: TIME Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:05:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KPM5h3.0.lr3._F0to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1425 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sorry Chuck but those are Not my words! My belief is that there are indeed more dimensions and that, to some degree, those are indeed engineerable (see Seike). Cheers, Pete ---------- From: Charlie Hodgson[SMTP:chuck@cougar.ssi.stratus.com] Sent: dinsdag 14 januari 1997 16:37 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: TIME In <01BC022B.2E1F8C40@art.xs4all.nl>, on 01/14/97 at 02:48 PM, Pete Art said: > Time has never been properly defined. It is the enigma of both >modern physics and philosophy. >superstring theory requires ten variables, BUT THERE ARE ONLY THREE >DIMENSIONS. This is not proven - some astrophysicists believe that what goes in black holes emerge from quasars - some hidden link. This does not fit in the "THERE ARE ONLY THREE DIMENSIONS" model. Charlie -- An ounce of application is worth a ton of abstraction. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 01:09:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA19447; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:24:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:24:33 -0800 Message-ID: <32DBC13A.6213@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:24:11 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Time Travel Theory -Reply References: <199701142108.WAA16260@korovev.stm.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a6ZQx2.0.kl4.UU0to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1427 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Josef Hasslberger wrote: > > Puru wrote: > > > >Another point is that, suppose we dream that we are at some > >distant planet, our mind goes there instantly. But light takes a lot > >more time to reach that place from here. Does that mean > >something else has traveled faster than light - violating the basic > >conclusion of the theory of Relativity. > > > Yes I suppose that would be what is meant. > As I see it, you would have to get outside the 'three dimensional' > universe, into a different dimension, which allows 'jumping' from one point > in physical space to another instantaneously, that is, without the > limitation of the speed of light. Thoughts do not obey the speed of light > limitation. Ahh, but the speed of light limitation does not apply to just anything, only mass! Information is not so restricted, as evidenced by the behavior of pair coupled particles. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 06:44:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA16159; Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:11:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:11:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32DC02E8.5CAC@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:34:24 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: EMF summing Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------400E4E866246" Resent-Message-ID: <"Pz5Pm1.0.Ny3.XI0to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1426 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------400E4E866246 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Thanks to Scott Little I realized my original crude drawing is correct. As I said before too many late hours. I have attached a drawing which should clear this matter up. If in doubt, do the experiment & verify the results. It is IMPORTANT to understand that a coil produces EMF (Voltage) as a result of a change in the flux flowing through the coil. Current flow is the result of the dynamics of the electrical load the coil's EMF sees. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------400E4E866246 Content-Type: image/gif; name="summing.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="summing.gif" R0lGODlhegFlAvcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPz8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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SOLINAC) Subject: Re: LC tank and antena systems Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:10:08 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <"5NCkt2.0.Ew6.oBFto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1447 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I have plenty of wire and access to magnets of a variety of shapes. Should a >little time free up, I would like to do some experimentation. > >Byrun Fox. > > How do you manage to have an any way decent access to magnets? Any good 'recycled' sources you know of or suppliers? Thanks, T. Solinac From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 07:19:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA31348; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:18:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:18:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199701151518.HAA31313@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: 9512675@PoPMail.UL.IE X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: 9512675@UL.IE (T. SOLINAC) Subject: Solid State Bedini? Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:20:16 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <"3eBtX1.0.ef7.ELFto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1448 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Assuming that it is possible to construct a Bedini-type G-field Generator with an efficiency in the realm of usefullness, >130% say, what is the problem with using electomagnets as opposed to neodymium or other permanent magnets, either on the rotor or stationary and fed with a square or ramp waveform in sequence (to eleviate the problem of saturation of the original stationary coils?)? T. Solinac From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 08:31:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA21159; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:28:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:28:00 -0800 Message-ID: <32DCBE92.44CC@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:25:06 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Epitaxy CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: EMF Summing & DNMEC proof? References: <3.0.32.19970114163249.0098d59c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_VAar2.0.p85.ULGto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1449 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Dear Bob > > You are mistaking apples and oranges. Could be, as I posted, I missed several messages in the thread. Thanks. The issue remains however, and Greg has posted both sides of the flux summing coin. > Greg's drawing from Jan 14 was posted by him to illustrate the ELECTRICAL > current (vector superposition) NOT magnetic flux superposition. > > This is the reason why his post bares a tittle " EMF Summing..." the E in > EMF stands for ELECTRO... Understood. I do think (hope?) most of us know this! > Greg was illustrating the electrical current in an electrical circuit with > an inductor and power supply. The purpose of this was to explain why power > supply current drops in response to a ferrite approaching the coil. The issue of flux superposition remains unaddressed, which is a bit more basic to the discussion. Unless we first understand the true behavior of the flux first, we will not be able to properly understand the induced currents it produces. If you read my message carefully, it should be clear that there is a major problem with the way flux interactions have been described on freenrg-l. In your opinion, is it unreasonable to resolve the questions raised by the apparent contradictions on the subject of flux summing? This issue is at the very heart of LIAG and other flux gate devices. How can this not be a very significant issue that needs to be addressed? Also, we might want to think about why flux acts as it does in these cases, yet B fields in EM waves act in a different manner. I think this is suggestive of an area that might stand a closer look. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 08:38:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA24712; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:34:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 08:34:16 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:29:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970115112911_1444571729@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, harti@bbtt.de Subject: G-Field 1.1 NEW Report (Part 1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.29495.emout14.mail.aol.com.853345751" Resent-Message-ID: <"odmnP1.0.hz5.NRGto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1450 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.29495.emout14.mail.aol.com.853345751 Content-ID: <0_29495_853345751@emout14.mail.aol.com.57735> Content-type: text/plain Dear All, I have finished the test of new enhanced version of G-Field Generator ( Version 1.1). The difference between the old version (V 1.0) is that the motor is connected in direct drive and not through a gear box like previous version. The result produces more mechanical stability and reduces friction: the measures could be made with better efficiency. You can find below my final test with voltage/current phase measurements..... In next messages, I shall send you the scanned lab notes of the oscilloscope shapes which show voltage/current phase and some waves informations. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any overunity in this new test. I hope that this new report will help someone who explores free energy device. I look forward to your feed-back and comments.... Nice to speak with you soon, Jean-Louis Naudin Email : JNaudin509@aol.com Attached document GFLRP11C.GIF = Oscilloscope connection diagram (fig4) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------- G-FIELD GENERATOR TEST REPORT 15-jan-97 Jean-Louis Naudin Model Version 1.1 Email : JNaudin509@aol.com Measures with differents values of RPM MOTOR INPUT OUTPUT Efficiency V (DC Volt I (Amp.) RPM Power (W)R Load (ohms OUT.MODE U (VI (ACos PhPower (W) EPO/MWI 15.30 1.47 2857 22.49 NONE See Fig 1 14.50 1.67 2222 24.22 103.6 VTG/DC 18.10.17 3.08 15.20 1.51 2608 22.95 103.6 CUR/DC 14.00.13 1.82 13.30 1.74 23.14 103.6 VTG/AC See Fig 1 14.00 1.51 21.14 103.6 CUR/AC See Fig 1 Efficiency calculation ( Measures accuracy +/- 1% ) Mechanical work input = (Input with load - Input without Load) * motor efficiency Efficiency = Electrical power output / Mechanical work input Motor efficiency = 7( Version 1.1 Vs Version 1.0 = Direct Drive mode with No Gear Box ) Measures with U input constant : 12 V MOTOR INPUT OUTPUT Efficiency V (DC Volt I (Amp.) RPM Power (W)R Load (ohms OUT.MODE U (VI (ACos PhPower (W) EPO/MWI 12.30 1.220 2222 15.01 NONE 12.00 1.620 1765 19.44 103.6 VTG/DC 14.30.13 1. 56% 12.10 1.510 1875 18.27 103.6 CUR/DC 10.60.10 1. 43% 12.20 2.230 1200 27.21 7 VTG/AC 0.44 1 1. 23% 12.30 2.000 1333 24.60 7 CUR/AC 0.54 1 2. 43% Measures with RPM constant = 2727 Turns/minute MOTOR INPUT OUTPUT Efficiency V (DC Volt I (Amp.) RPM Power (W)R Load (ohms OUT.MODE U (VI (ACos PhPower (W) EPO/MWI 14.50 1.35 2727 19.58 NONE 16.00 1.84 2727 29.44 103.6 VTG/DC 18.90.18 3. 46% 14.70 1.55 2727 22.79 103.6 CUR/DC 13.70.12 1. 68% BTW : Signal on Channel B is inverted on the graph Fig 1 : Output coil signal without load Fig 2 : Output signal with RLoad = 103.6 ohms / VTG mode ( AC ouput) Fig 3 : Output signal with Rload = 103.6 ohms / CUR mode ( AC output ) Fig 4 : Connection diagram of oscilloscope Channel A = 100mv / div Channel B = 10V / div Base time = 2 ms / div --PART.BOUNDARY.0.29495.emout14.mail.aol.com.853345751 Content-ID: <0_29495_853345751@emout14.mail.aol.com.57736> Content-type: image/gif; name="GFLRP11C.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlh1gLcAIAAAAAAAP///ywAAAAA1gLcAAAC+4yPqcvtD6N0AMyLs968+w+G4kiW5omm TMWq7gvHbiXX9o3n+s73PsKy/IbEIkVoTCqXy6ATgmRKp4sn9Yo10bLcrhfjDNPE4a+ZZz2r 14ct+w1PptvBxzyOB9Xz/Km7DxiIsqfwB0UomGgXpdjo+AjpZ6jXEml5iZmpuUlSWYLIGSo6 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Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.12033.emout18.mail.aol.com.853345754" Resent-Message-ID: <"9mRbP.0._-5.RRGto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1451 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.12033.emout18.mail.aol.com.853345754 Content-ID: <0_12033_853345754@emout18.mail.aol.com.55449> Content-type: text/plain Dear All, You have attached picture "GFLRP11a.GIF" of my G-Field 1.1 test report : Fig 3 : Output signal with Rload = 103.6 ohms / CUR mode ( AC output ) Channel A = 100mv / div Channel B = 10V / div Base time = 2 ms / div AC voltage and current have a cos(phi) = 1 Truly, Jean-Louis --PART.BOUNDARY.0.12033.emout18.mail.aol.com.853345754 Content-ID: <0_12033_853345754@emout18.mail.aol.com.55450> Content-type: image/gif; name="GFLRP11B.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, harti@bbtt.de Subject: G-Field 1.1 NEW Report (Part 2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.10042.emout10.mail.aol.com.853345745" Resent-Message-ID: <"5eHkt.0.a96.ZSGto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1452 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.10042.emout10.mail.aol.com.853345745 Content-ID: <0_10042_853345745@emout10.mail.aol.com.57871> Content-type: text/plain Dear All, You have attached picture "GFLRP11a.GIF" of my G-Field 1.1 test report : Fig 1 : Output coil signal without load Fig 2 : Output signal with RLoad = 103.6 ohms / VTG mode ( AC ouput) Channel A = 100mv / div Channel B = 10V / div Base time = 2 ms / div AC voltage and current have a cos(phi) = 1 Truly, Jean-Louis --PART.BOUNDARY.0.10042.emout10.mail.aol.com.853345745 Content-ID: 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Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>I have plenty of wire and access to magnets of a variety of shapes. Should a >>little time free up, I would like to do some experimentation. >> > >>Byrun Fox. >> >> > How do you manage to have an any way decent access to magnets? > Any good 'recycled' sources you know of or suppliers? > Thanks, > > T. Solinac Dear T. I have a number of Neodemers, measuring 1/4" X 1" diameter, very strong, plus there is a local supplier who is a friend who sells large variety of ferrites and neo's. Byrun. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 09:28:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA16558; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:28:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:28:04 -0800 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:27:53 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"aLaDt2.0.124.VEHto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1454 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Ossie; I had a scientific glassblower create a beutiful circular plasma tube, 4" inside diam. Low press argon, with four electrode connections. It fires with a light blue. Also got a circular speaker ferrite magnet and cut it in two. Now what do you suggest I do to make it work, ie, siberian collui, Horribulus Annis, whatever, forgive spelling. Thanks, look forward to hearing from you. Byrun Fox. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 09:33:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA19087; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:32:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:32:37 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:31:24 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701151731.SAA08756@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Thoughts do not obey speed of light Resent-Message-ID: <"FD-Nj2.0.gf4.eIHto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1455 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Adam Grossman wrote: ><> >Where did you get this? This makes no sense. THoughts are just chemical and >electrical signals in the brain, and they must go slower (Actually, in the >brain's case, MUCH slower) than the speed of light....even if thoughts DIDN'T >use any known form of energy you would still need proof that they go faster >than light (Einstein's Relativity proved that any energy must go slower than >light. And this isn't a "law" like when people thought you could never break >the speed limmit. If you went the speed of light, it would take infinite >energy, and you would become infinitly massive.) >-Adam Grossman Here we go, we have a definition problem. If thoughts were just chemical and electrical signals in the brain, then they would probably be subject to such a limitation. And in that case, ESP, telepathy and all a host of other phenomena that are known to exist and that are the subject of serious study, would of course be impossible, because the brain is not a radio station. We might liken the brain to a very sensitive switchboard that receives (and transmits) signals having to do with body functions and perceptions to an entity that is not inherent in the brain. That entity (you will say it can't be observed so it does not exist) is non material and is the consciousness of the person. Thoughts are not consciousness to brain or brain to consciousness, but consciousness to other consciousness, and they do not, as normal electromagnetic signals do, follow the logic of physical spacetime. Don't ask me for proof. You are free to disagree. We are into a very experimental subject here. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 11:59:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA09678; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:59:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 11:59:14 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:55:09 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thoughts do not obey speed of light In-Reply-To: <199701151731.SAA08756@korovev.stm.it> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"30ZNZ.0.xM2.FSJto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1456 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'd like to mention that over the last few years, possibly 3-4 or so, there has been much talk about "microtubules" in human nerve cells, including the brain. I'll have to get the issue number, etc., but I believe there was an article in an issue of Discover magazine on thes. Possibly around August, 1994, and called something along the lines of "Quantam Mind: The Source of Intelligence" or some such. The basic point of the article was that this scientist discovered that nerve cells in humans, and possibly other animals, have what are called "microtubules". These are small tube like structures within the nerve cells. Their purpose seems to be to channel single ions in such a manner as to transmit nerve signals. I believe that said scientist was postulating that it might be possible that, due to these microtubules, human intelligence *may* have it's source from a quantam level, some how. If this is anywhere near accurate, as a theory, then whether or not we can time travel intellectually, or not may be a moot point. This is because when we get in to quantam mechanics, we're dealing with things like the "speed" of virtual particles, gravity waves, tachyons, the decay of k mesons to pi mesons, and a whole whack of particles, fields, and other interactions sooooo small and difficult to observe, along with Schrodingers cat messing things up, for someone with billions of dollars to spend on developing the correct equipment. My point in this whole discourse is that it's possible that the human mind *may* deal with things quantam well enough (or not) to allow for trans luminal effects (see Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky bridges and Bell's theorem as it relates to possible effects like esp, clarivoyance, etc.) but we, unfortunately, don't have enough knowledge or technology to be able to nail this slippery problem down. Take care all. :) John Are you in to REAL time travel? How about building a working time machine? Why not check out http://members.tripod.com/~jtooker/index-2.html ? Do you want to earn extra money at home with your computer? Then check out http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/4012 for some great opps! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 12:36:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA20437; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:36:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:36:15 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 23:28:40 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: time travel topic --> news group "alt.sci.time-travel" Lines: 6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"WpKnr3.0.D_4.y-Jto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1457 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: All time travel discussion is placed in news group. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 13:27:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA32421; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:26:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:26:48 -0800 Message-ID: <32DD4A55.B74@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 07:51:25 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Secong Test to DNMEC Over Unity Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5308306F3EF" Resent-Message-ID: <"_ECBs2.0.Kw7.HkKto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1458 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5308306F3EF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Attached are the four Gifs for the second test of my DNMEC experiments. Ferrite block attraction is as follows : Test 1 (FFNS NSFF Adding flux) 1.2 Newtons Test 2 (FFNS SNFF Opposing flux) 56 Newtons Test 3 (FFNSFF FFNSFF Adding flux) 9 Newtons Test 4 (FFNSFF FFSNFF Opposing flux) 5 Newtons These tests will vary with the length of the ferrite between the magnets and the air gap. With a very short length of ferrite, operation can change from test 3/4 to test 1/2. There is a critical length where the change over occurs, but this will vary with the actual design. If possible you need to get the magnet / coil in a flux gate design to have one of their poles directly in the air gap to achieve the best result. This DNMEC effect is REAL. Before you comment further, PLEASE try the experiment. Then think about what it means. 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--------------5308306F3EF-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 14:13:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA13736; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:13:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 14:13:14 -0800 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 11:12 NZDT X-Sender: srae@shoppe.mlb.planet.gen.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz (Stuart Rae) Subject: Re: LC Tanks...Energy and Time X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"u7oD23.0.XM3.tPLto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1459 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: "Alexander V. Frolov" Re: LC Tanks...Energy and Time, wrote: >snip > > So, o/u systems must use just time for its operation. Some secondary > effects must be detected in area of its operation, for expample, > change of local time rate. > >snip YES, this is also as I see it. But then how do we observe this effect? TWO QUESTIONS: 1) Is there a SIMPLE and ABSOLUTE method of experimentally detecting temporal change in the area of operation? 2) In fact, why would any temporal change be confined to the area of operation ONLY? Or would we expect it to diminish inversely with the square of the distance? >snip > It is mistake to consider the machine of time as a system that > require power plant for its operation: it must produce power in > to make a change of rate of time (deceleration of time). This power > must be collected to be used for opposite change of time (to make > time rate faster than normal). > >snip Yes I agree: And perhaps in a way, we do this every day with some types of electromagnetic system, but are unaware of it because we are part of the effect! Which might of course, rule out the inverse square law (?) Stuart Rae From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 15:07:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA29441; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:06:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:06:48 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 00:06:15 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701152306.AAA17928@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: time travel topic --> news group "alt.sci.time-travel" Resent-Message-ID: <"FhEY31.0.tB7.3CMto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1460 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >All time travel discussion is placed in news group. > Hi Alex, I suppose one could move time travel discussions to that newsgroup. I checked it out and there does not seem too much traffic on it. Actually, none of the traffic was about time travel, so maybe we could give the group some purpose. Only trouble I see, not everyone may have a news server. Some people only have e-mail accounts. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 17:21:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA00329; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:21:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:21:32 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970115171142.009776d8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 17:11:44 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: LC tank and antena systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"aXuk33.0.25.RAOto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1461 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: SOURCING TIPS Neodymium magnets are cheaply obtainable from BAD 5.25 inch computer hard drives (like the Seagate 1GB drives). These drives are available from drive repair shops, computer shops, dealers electronic junk yards or hard drive OEM itself. Hint: 500MB and up 5.25 drives with voice coil actuator use these magnets. Broken hard drives typicaly sell for $10 USD or less Good bearings and whole spindle assemblies are available from Video Cassette Players especially the old 3/4 inch tape machines (VHS & Beta also but smaller size). There are generally two spindles in each: the video head and capstan. Broken VCRs typicaly sell for $10 USD or less A phenomenal magnetic shielding material (moldable) is sold by Muller Magnetics ( http://www.aa.net/~mwm/magnet/mmag2.html ) they purport to have a overunity generator and developed this material especially for it. They call this material Amorphous Polycrystaline. (they do not openly admit it is OU though) At 03:10 PM 1/15/97 +0000, you wrote: > >>I have plenty of wire and access to magnets of a variety of shapes. Should a >>little time free up, I would like to do some experimentation. >> > >>Byrun Fox. >> >> > How do you manage to have an any way decent access to magnets? > Any good 'recycled' sources you know of or suppliers? > Thanks, > > T. Solinac > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 20:42:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA12009; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:42:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:42:39 -0800 Message-ID: <32DD4EF6.751E@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:11:10 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Understanding Newmam machine and DNMEC principle now ! References: <3.0.32.19970114073805.009c3ad8@mail.localaccess.com> <32DC16F4.326D@mail.enternet.com.au> <32DBD879.6C26@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"liSAV2.0.Ux2.z6Rto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1462 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > Hi Epitaxy, > > > > > If we double the number of turns, the idle current drops to half, but > > the > > H magnetizing force stays constant. The inductance of the coil has now > > gone up 4 times as inductance is related to the square of the number of > > turns. > > The B field energy stays the same as it is related to changes in the H > > force > > and the permeability. As we now have twice the number of turns on the > > coil > > it will now generate twice the EMF for a fixed change in B field > > density. > > Whoa there! As inductance goes up, so does the total energy over time > needed to produce the B field, in direct proportion. I said IDLE current. Of course the energy consumed by the coil as it charges up go up x2. LR time x4, final current /2, enegry in x2. Just note again that final current, IDLE current is down by half. If we need to generate a constant B field from an electromagnet then the best engineering solution is to reduce idle current as low as possible by winding as many turns as possible. This also makes the coil very sensitive to coil flux density changes. We can use a ferrite based coil to get a big B field from a smaller number of turns, but the idle current is then very high and small flux changes are seen as a smaller current change in relationship to the idle current. So, to make a coil very sensitive to flux changes and use the min of current we must use many turns. As I said, there are threads here to the work Newman has done. More later. > > Stored energy has doubled as it is related to the inductance and current > > squared. (Inductance up x4 and current down x2). > > Your forgetting the time it takes to reach maximum current! You are correct, I didn't include in in the list of coil dynamics. > > Any way that's just coil dynamics. Sometimes better to have a small > > low resistance coil, sometimes better to have a big high resistance > > coil. > > If you only plan to put energy into the system, then a small coil is > > better, > > but if you plan to get energy out of the system, the a large coil may be > > the answer. There are threads here which tie into Newman. > > This relates directly to Newman's two coil experiment! The list server > has been here already. > > So what is new? Hi Bob, To you and me. Nothing new, but to the rest of our readers? Coil dynamics will play an important part in future DNMEC discussions. Just trying to make sure ALL understand the relationships between the forces that make coils and inductance work. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 20:43:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA12086; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:43:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:43:01 -0800 Message-ID: <32DDA2BF.270A@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:08:40 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Coil maintaining flux - What's wrong here ? References: <3.0.32.19970114164122.00931220@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"meAi23.0.jy2.H7Rto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1463 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > How do you reconcile the Len'z law experiment described below. In this > experiment the coil appears to NOT to try to maintain the flux density. > > At 09:59 AM 1/15/97 +1030, you wrote: > > >A coil will ATTEMPT to maintain the flux density flowing through it > >constant. > >I fully believe that and have verified it by simulation and actual > >experimentation. If this didn't happen, nothing which relies on > >magnetic induction to work would work. > > - > >Best Regards, > >Greg Watson, > >Greg Watson Consulting, > >Adelaide, South Australia, > >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > > > LENZ LAW EXPERIMENT > > Why in a simple magnet & coil demonstration of Lenz law, a coil that is > physically moving away from a magnet is ATTRACTED to the magnet. Do you > deny this ? If a coil is attracted doesn't it mean that it must produce > the opposite pole to the PM's pole ? Don't opposite poles cancel each > other ? This doesn't fit with the coil's flux conservation behavior very > well. (please try reread and understand the above paragraph) I am > really puzzled by this. As the coil moves away from the magnet, it senses a falling flux density and will induce a EMF to cause current to flow to attempt the maintain the falling flux. The current flow will create a additional field which will ADD to the falling flux. The coils adding flux will form a field which will be attracted to the magnet. This attraction will resist the coil's movement away from the magnet. Attraction <-- o . --> movement S------N S N S N S------N Attraction <-- o x --> movement . = current flows to observer ^ x = current flows away from observer Coil > Remember when in my previous setup the coil responded to vanishing magnetic > flux by generating an canceling pole (NS-NS) instead of reinforcing pole > (NS-SN). The coil was seeing less and less of the south pole but it did > NOT respond by producing more of the south pole (just the reverse). The Did you get my 20 gif set. This set shows the reverse happening. > coil was helping to further kill the vanishing flux instead of trying to > preserve it ! Coils DO NOT work what way. Honest. > This is why in a simple magnet & coil demonstration of Lenz > law, a coil that is going away from the magnet is ATTRACTED to the magnet. Correct. The coil is attracted to the magnet as it moves away. > Do you deny this ? If a coil is attracted doesn't it mean that it must > produce the opposite pole to the PM's pole ? Correct, a opposite pole is produced. > Don't opposite poles cancel > each other ? Opposite fluxes try to cancel (denends on in what they flow). Opposite poles are attracted to each other and attract flux from each other. > This doesn't fit with the coil's flux conservation behavior > very well. (please try reread and understand the above paragraph) I am > really puzzled by this. Hi Epitaxy, Opposite poles are not the same as opposite fluxes. OK? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 20:43:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA12142; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:43:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:43:16 -0800 Message-ID: <32DDB073.BDF@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:07:07 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity References: <3.0.32.19970115173935.0098018c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NwrU73.0.Wz2.W7Rto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1464 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > I repeated your experiment and I got. > > Test1 2.5N > Test2 71N > Test3 28N > Test3 12N > > I am still concerned about the decreasing volume of B according to Scott's > Little comment. > The good news is that he admitted that the B is getting compressed in that > decreasing volume. Read my reply to Scott. > I really dislike the comments of the type: "You can't come up with > anything new using old conventional laws". Bullshit ! Maxwell's theory > was reasoned out of inconsistencies of the old laws preceding it. The > inconsistency was the EM radiation. Hi Epitaxy, Try this. Another demo of flux summing : Test 1 : FFSNFF FFNSFF (almost no repelling forces) Test 2 : FFSN NSFF (Good repelling forces) Understand why? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 20:43:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA12170; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:43:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 20:43:23 -0800 Message-ID: <32DDAEE9.2F95@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:00:33 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Coil maintaining flux & Free kinetic energy ? References: <3.0.32.19970115173041.00978f60@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0nGq02.0.yz2.a7Rto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1465 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > >Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:03:00 -0600 (CST) > >X-Sender: little@mail.eden.com > >To: Epitaxy > >From: Scott Little > >Subject: Re: Coil maintaining flux - What's wrong here ? > >X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) > > > > > >>>From what I understand of Greg's idea, if we charged a superconductive and > >>lossless coil with 10mA, disconnected the power supply, then let it attract > >>a ferrite, we could recover all of the energy expended to charge the coil > >>in the beginning and if we do this recovery fast enough before the "back > >>drag" on the moving ferrite occurs, the ferrite will gain FREE kinetic > >>energy and we get back ALL of the energy back that we expended in the > >>beginning. I never said that, Scott please don't jump too quick or put words in my mouth. My objective with the rod / coil was to understand what happens as the rod approaches. This experiment WILL NOT, to my belief, produce over unity. But a understanding of the changing energies is necessary to understand what is to follow. > >I feel strongly that this is just "magnet double-talk" typical of the > >schemes dreamed up by people who try to engineer o-u devices with magnets. > > > >>Also, what do you think of the statement ?: "Yes the volume of B decreases > >>but the intensity of B increases accordingly (resulting in compression) , > >>in the end the coil will attempt to keep the energy of the magnetic field > >>constant regardless of how much volume the field occupies..." > > > >True there is some compression of the B which partially offsets the energy > >reduction that would occur otherwise but, nevertheless, a reduction does > >occur in the stored energy in the magnetic field as the rod approaches the > >coil. This is as obvious as the fact that a rock falling off a table is > >going to a lower energy state (i.e. "down"). It is obvious because there is > >a force that pulls the rod toward the coil. The field is doing work on you > >as you let the rod move in. When the rod is up against the coil, you have > >to do work on it (i.e. pull on it) to remove it from the coil....this > >restores the energy in the field. If there were no energy change in the > >field, there would be no force...they are inextricably related. Well here I go. Didn't really want to talk about this yet. Force and energy in magnetic systems are NOT inextricably related. If I go out and buy a rocket motor which has an 1 lb thrust, point it horizontal and set it off against my hand, my hand will feel a 1 lb thrust. The rocket is converting stored chemical energy into thrust. We all understand and accept that. We can see the exhaust and here the noise. And understand where the energy is comming from. If I now hold a ferrite rod close to a magnet and feel the same 1 lb thrust, my hand, who doesn't know physics, will feel the same thrust. However our physics will tell us that no work is being done by the magnet and rod. Stupid hand, it should know that thrust is not thrust. Or maybe the magnet and rod are producing energy (DNMEC) and its not my hand that is stupid, but our physics. > >It IS difficult to see clearly where energy exchanges are occurring in > >magnetic fields. That is why there are so many folks out there trying to > >design o-u magnetic motors...it's alluring. You think, "Gee, if I could > >only put a shield here that is moved out of the way at just the right > >time"....etc. However, it NEVER works because ALL magnetic interactions > >that we presently know about are CONSERVATIVE...i.e. force*distance is > >precisly equal to energy change. > > > >THis has been proven over and over and over with sophisticated calculations. > >Nowadays, motors and generators and other devices utilizing magnetic > >circuits are designed using Finite Element Analysis. This is a > >computer-based computational technique that actually solves Maxwells > >equations at all points in space throughout a user-defined geometry. In > >other words, you construct a drawing of your system, including coils, > >ferrite pieces, etc. and the computer calculates the magnetic fields > >everywhere in the system. You can then "move" the pieces a tiny amount (dx) > >and run the program again. The difference in stored magnetic energy divided > >by the amount you moved the piece (i.e. dE/dx) gives you the force on the > >piece at that location. OK...so what? you might say. Well, countless > >motors and generators have been designed in tedious detail using this > >technique and, when they are eventually built and studied, they operate > >precisely as predicted by these FEA computations. In other words, skilled > >engineers have looked exhaustively for anomalies in magnetic interactions > >and they have not found any to date. > > > >Of course, this does not mean that there aren't any anomalies...but it does > >mean that they won't be evident in such a simple system as a ferrite rod > >approaching a single coil. As I said on Vortex, if anyone comes up with an > >experiment that shows apparent o-u behavior in a magnetic system, I will pay > >attention to it and, if it looks good, offer to perform an independent > >energy balance measurement on the device. I have done this already on > >several devices and, to date, none of them were o-u....(sigh). > > > >keep thinking...that is our only hope! Hi Scott, I do. And questioning. And experimenting. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 21:25:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA23811; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 21:25:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 21:25:24 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:39:43 +0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: otecnor@emirates.net.ae (otecnor) Subject: Re: Thoughts do not obey speed of light Resent-Message-ID: <"3pbBi3.0.gp5.1lRto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1466 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Adam Grossman wrote: > >><> > >>Where did you get this? This makes no sense. THoughts are just chemical and -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Here we go, we have a definition problem. > >If thoughts were just chemical and electrical signals in the brain, then >they would probably be subject to such a limitation. And in that case, ESP, Hi, Being new to this mailling list and not really science educated I have not much to tell but to learn; On the above subject I read two interesting books wich discuss, postulate the matter of possible thaughts speeds: "The holographic unniverse" Michel Talbot "The Tao of physics" Fritjof capra In the second one you will read about the possibility for an event to trigger another one at the same time undependently of the distance separating those events.. .(I do not recal if it was a constat or a mathematical necessity...) see by yourself Best Wishes to all FRANCK ROUSSEL http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor otecnor@emirates.net.ae Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 Po box 4613 Dubai United Arab Emirates Time: GMT + 4 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 21:54:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA27508; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 21:44:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 21:44:00 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:58:12 +0400 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: otecnor@emirates.net.ae (otecnor) Subject: Robert Adams motor/generator Resent-Message-ID: <"kNrRF2.0.ij6.U0Sto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1467 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi everybody, Does anyone been experimenting with a R.Adams motor/generator (Docs sold/distributed by Nexus).The inventors looks to be out of reach and its said coassocit : Mr Bruce Cathie site looks to be closed... I would be interested to exchange testing datas or ideas. FRANCK ROUSSEL http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor otecnor@emirates.net.ae Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 Po box 4613 Dubai United Arab Emirates Time: GMT + 4 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 15 23:13:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA06666; Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:48:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:48:48 -0800 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:49:00 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: LC tank and antena systems Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"l6eNT3.0.0e1.EzSto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1468 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: you wrote; >>> >> >>>Byrun Fox. >>> >>> >> How do you manage to have an any way decent access to magnets? >> Any good 'recycled' sources you know of or suppliers? >> Thanks, >> >> T. Solinac I have a wholesaler that just started selling magnets years ago and has kept it up. I can get pretty much anything I want. I don't was my time looking for used stuff as its just about at cheap and a lot less work to buy new. Byrun. >> >> >> > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 04:03:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA09339; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 03:40:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 03:40:40 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 06:40:05 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970116064004_2056547773@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Thoughts do not obey speed of light Resent-Message-ID: <"fNv9b1.0.rH2.tEXto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1469 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>I believe that said scientist was postulating that it might be possible that, due to these microtubules, human intelligence *may* have it's source from a quantam level, some how. If this is anywhere near accurate, as a theory, then whether or not we can time travel intellectually, or not may be a moot point. >>> Roger Penrose has written a book called "Shadows of the Mind" with this theory....I'm not sure if he's the one you are talking about. <<>> There has been no confirmation that anything quantum in nature can send sygnals faster than light. It is proven that there ARE superluminal effects, but none that can really carry a signal....let's hope there can be a way around this. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 04:19:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA11454; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:09:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:09:59 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:07:46 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701161207.XAA15682@hurricane.netspace.net.au> X-Sender: mathew3@pop.netspace.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Ossie Callanan Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! Resent-Message-ID: <"6w4jr.0.to2.LgXto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1470 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:27 AM 1/15/97 -0800, Byrun Fox wrote: >Dear Ossie; > >I had a scientific glassblower create a beutiful circular plasma tube, 4" >inside diam. Low press argon, with four electrode connections. It fires with >a light blue. Also got a circular speaker ferrite magnet and cut it in two. >Now what do you suggest I do to make it work, ie, siberian collui, >Horribulus Annis, whatever, forgive spelling. > >Thanks, look forward to hearing from you. > >Byrun Fox. > > > Bryun, I have not had the resources as yet to develop my idea, but I have duplicated Marinov's experiments showing the effect. I have been directly contacted by an associate of Marinov's who wrote that he and Marinov are interested in my idea and any responses from people who have attemped to build the SAP tube. Your construction sounds good but the most important part, the gas, is the important question. If you conduct the indicated experiments using the split cylinder magnet, electrolyte and copper ring, you will see the importance of current flow to achieve the desired rotary motion of the copper ring. This is where the importance of the gas comes in. Will it, in plasma form, conduct the quantity of current required to cause the plasma to rotate and accelerate to the point where it is self sustaining. Are you able to give any voltage and current measurements of the ionised gas. This at least can be used in comparison to a solid metal conductor. You are the only person who has responded to me who has actually built a SAP tube. I believe that with the correct current flow, the plasma should rotate in the tube and according to Marinov, will not induce an opposing force and should at a point become Self Accelerating and generate energy as long as a load is switched across it without letting the current drop below the self acceleration point.. I think that the required current flow for the strength of your indicated magnet would be quite large and that argon may not allow this. The correct gas combination is the key to successful operation. Regards, Ossie Callanan From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 04:45:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA14388; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:35:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:35:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199701161235.EAA14262@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: 9512675@PoPMail.UL.IE X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: 9512675@UL.IE (T. SOLINAC) Subject: Re: LC tank and antena systems Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:37:22 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <"jiC4n3.0.gW3.X2Yto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1471 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >SOURCING TIPS > >Neodymium magnets are cheaply obtainable from BAD 5.25 inch computer hard >drives........ Thanks for your support and time..! T. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 14:42:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA06124; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:13:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:13:39 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:35:55 +0100 Message-Id: <199701162135.WAA11169@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: GWatson´s experiments and my Newman proposals Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"aD5xE3.0.sU1.sVgto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1474 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> I repeated your experiment and I got. >> >> Test1 2.5N >> Test2 71N >> Test3 28N >> Test3 12N >> >> I am still concerned about the decreasing volume of B according to Scott's >> Little comment. >> The good news is that he admitted that the B is getting compressed in that >> decreasing volume. > >Read my reply to Scott. > >> I really dislike the comments of the type: "You can't come up with >> anything new using old conventional laws". Bullshit ! Maxwell's theory >> was reasoned out of inconsistencies of the old laws preceding it. The >> inconsistency was the EM radiation. > >Hi Epitaxy, > >Try this. > >Another demo of flux summing : > >Test 1 : > >FFSNFF FFNSFF (almost no repelling forces) > > >Test 2 : > > FFSN NSFF (Good repelling forces) > > >Understand why? > Let us know ! What is so important about this different flux summing ? Once it takes place in ferrite and once in air.... Just other permeability factors... What is the use ? Try to teach us an example, that brings in new possibilities to use it for energy production ! :) What do you think of my proposals to enhance Newman devices ? Do you also agree, using a very BIG ferrite rod, which is accelerated into a Newman coil(many windings, high ohmic resistance) will have a huge induction impulse, when the coil circuit is opened, when the rod is in the middle of the coil ? (due to all the new aligned atomic spins in the rod, which induce an huge induction impulse back into the coil ???) I will draw it up as an example and post it soon, what I mean. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 16:53:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA10685; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:38:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:38:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32DEC83D.48A7@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:00:53 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity References: <3.0.32.19970115173935.0098018c@mail.localaccess.com> <32DDB073.BDF@mail.enternet.com.au> <32DE502C.2B2D@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uO_Z81.0.sc2.hdito"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1475 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Greg, This is in direct conflict with your earlier posts and also with > direct experimental evidence which you supported. I'm not looking for a > flame war, but would you please address this issue? > > What evidence exists to support your recent claims that "opposite fluxes > try to cancel". > > How does this statement fit with your earlier posts which show exactly > the opposite of this is true? > > How can you reconsile the claims of flux cancelation (and it's role in > DNMEC) with the experimental evidence that flux does not cancel as > described, which you claimed to have verified experimentally in an > earlier posting? Hi Bob, Thanks for the input, I enjoy reading your posts. Really. But I think we have again a case of Apples and Oranges. I must not express myself very well. I will try to address your issues : 1) Magnetic fields consist of two components H and B. H is the magnetizing force (Amp turns / Mtr or AM). R is the reluctance of the material the H field passes through. B is the induced magnet field produced by H passing through R. B = H/R. The inverse of R is permeability The lower R is (Higher permeability) the greater the B field produced by a magnetizing force H. 2) In any magnetic circuit I have ever seen, built or read about ALL the H leaving one end of a magnet returns to the other end, somehow. You cannot cancel, sum or add H. However the induced B field is different. 3) In air (with a permeability of 1) the B field will equal the H field. 4) In air, two magnets will distort the H fields of each other. 5) These H fields will not cancel or add to each other. What left each magnet must return to the magnet. 6) Ferromagnetic material consists of small clusters of aligned iron atoms called domains. These domains normally are aligned so as not to produce a field. The domains have physical size, while H magnetizing fields do not. 7) As an H field flows through a ferromagnetic material, the domains try to rotate and align their own fields to the magnetizing force H. These aligned domains are what causes the induced B field to be larger than the H magnetizing field. 8) If more than one H field is flowing through the ferromagnetic material EACH domain will align to the vector sum of the H magnetizing fields flowing through and surrounding THAT domain. 9) The result is that the ferromagnetic material will produce a B field which ACTS AS IF the H magnetizing fields were summed. I stand by my comments. Magnetics is not easy to understand and many experimenters, including me, have spent many wasted hours trying to understand what the heck is going on. I hope this helps to somewhat explain my earlier postings. Neither the rod / coil or the two magnet test is attempting to demonstrate over unity. Only the first two steps in understanding why flux gate devices work as they do and soon why my future suggestions may provide a path to a flux gate generator which has a chance at providing Over Unity. Stay tuned. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 19:46:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA14939; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:20:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:20:40 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:22:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199701170322.EAA12345@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Solving the Newman function principle !! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@localaccess.com, ralph.hartwell@emachine.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de Resent-Message-ID: <"GGLmP2.0.Lf3.40lto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1476 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I think I have solved this night the question, why Newman machines can go overunity ! Thanks to Greg Watson=B4s new DNMEC theory and his comment, that the magnetic energy stored in a coil does not change, I finally came after years of research this evening to the final conclusion. Here it is how a Newman machine can go overunity, shown with formulas and an example ! Please let me know your comments: Let me explain it as an example ! Suppose we have an aircore Newman coil with many windings. The parameters for this coil are: L=3D100 Henry R=3D10.000 Ohm Time constant TAU=3DL/R=3D10 msec=3D 0.01 sec Battery voltage: 1000 Volts DC 1. Now connect this aircore coil to the Battery. (No ferrite rod or permanent magnet yet in sight,so just think about the coil L with its DC resistance R !) Now a magnetic field is building up in the aircore coil and the DC current is beginning to flow. After about 5 x tau=3DR/L=3D50 msec the current has reached its final value which is given by the ohmic resistance and the battery voltage. Thus a final current of 0.1 Amperes flows inside the coil to keep the magnetic field up. At this time inside this aircore coil there is the magnetic field energy stored which is calculated to: W=3D0.5LI^2=3D 0.5 Wattseconds (Ws) or 0.5 Joules. Now after 50 msec thus the energy output into the circuit from the battery has been about 0.5 Ws for the inductance L stored in its magnetical field PLUS about 3.5 Ws losses as heat at its ohmic resistance R=3D10.000 Ohm. Thus the total input into the coil from the battery was about 4 Ws in this 50 ms period. 2. Now comes the KEY information to understand Newman machines: As Greg said, the Energy stored in this coil wants to stay=20 CONSTANT, the key information is just the formula: W=3D 0.5 L I^2 If you look closely to this formula you can see, that the stored energy inside the coil after 50 msec depends greatly on the current ! As it is also in square, so even more !=20 So the input energy we have spent to get magnetic energy stored inside the coil COULD BE REDUCED by just dropping the current down and increase greatly the INDUCTANCE L !!! This is very important ! To store the SAME AMOUNT of ENERGY inside the COIL you can just use a much higher inductance L and USE LESS INPUT ENERGY via the current I !!!! (Assuming the Time constant TAU does not change !) Thus if you write this formula the other way around it shows you: I=3D (2W/L)^(1/2) =20 So if you raise L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry you will only need an end current of 0.01 Amperes =3D 10 mA after the 50 msec time period=20 to reach the SAME STORED magnetic energy inside the COIL L ! (STILL 0.5 Ws !)=20 BUT IF YOU NOW CALCULATE the USED ENERGY from the BATTERY it will show you, that you now only HAVE USED about 0.4 Ws for the=20 total of 50 msec input time period !!!) 3. So how do you get L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry with no other energy input ? Easy: Just use a big moving ferrite rod, which moves into the direction of the coil, as the battery voltage is switched onto the coil at the beginning of the 50 msec time period ! After the 50 msec has passed,=20 a) the rod is totally inside the coil b) the coil inductance L has a stored energy of 0.5 Ws c) the Battery was charged 0.4 Ws d) the rods kinetic energy has increased Thus OVERUNITY ! 4. Now it comes the time to get back the energy from this system: a) Open the coil circuit and flash all the stored 0.5 Ws energy of the coil via a neon tube and the ohmic resistance of the coil, so you have some light output and the coil resistance is heated ! All stored magnetic energy inside the coil is thus "flashed" away ! (this is done during a few msec when the rod is totally inside the coil,so the rod does not get any mechanical drag due to it..) b) the onmoving ferrite rod has increased speed when leaving the coil ! (the coil does not have any energy stored anmore, the circuit is still open) and when it passes next time the coil (going back in a circular path;=20 imagine the ferrite rod is moving in a circular track !)=20 it will even reduce the amount of charges needed from the battery input, cause the increased back=20 EMF will reduce input current into the coil some further ! All this is happening inside the first big Newman machines machines. There the ferrite rod is the Permanent magnet, which rotates inside the coil , but also does change the inductance L, when it moves from 90 degrees to 0 degrees, thus the same effect. Also cause this is a PM the induced back EMF is still stronger in this case so that still less input current and thus power is needed to reach the same effects ! 5. The big trick is: It seems that the time constant TAU=3DL/R seems to stay constant and does not move from 50 msec to 1 sec=20 as it would be, if the ferrite rod would be already at the beginning of=20 the cycle be placed inside the coil ! So conclusion is: The DYNAMIC PENETRATION of the FERRITE ROD INTO THE COIL DOES NOT SEEM to LONGEN TAU ! As the voltage is applied when the rod is not yet in sight, the coil seems to remember its current TAU=3DL/R and does not change it over time. Remember we are here confronted with a totally NONLINEAR=20 circuit ! Please reread this article again and again and let me know some comments ! It might lead us to a new understanding on how to construct more efficient Overunity Newman machines, by reducing the weight=20 of the coil and using less expensive wire and instead using a bigger ferrite rod (instead of PM) and thus reducing cost of production. BTW, what about using ferrite wire instead of copper wire ??? Has anybody tried this yet ? What kind of effect will a coil of ferrite or iron wire have ? Will the B magnetisation curve be differnet to those of copper wire when energized via=20 a DC voltage supply ? Will the additional magnet allignment inside the wire require less electrical power to get the same magnet field density at he coil=B4s surface ? Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 19:50:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA16121; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:25:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:25:34 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:24:22 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701170324.VAA00118@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Got dumped Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"67MiJ.0.px3.h4lto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1477 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: My Internet server developed a problem and I got dumped from the list for a while because of bounced mail. I hope I didn't miss TOO much! I'd like to request that large GIF's/JPEG's not be sent to the mailing list. My mailbox is only 1 MByte and it fills up fast with such things. A 60K or so file is OK but try to keep it around that size at most. Perhaps Bill B. can make arrangements for larger image files to be put on his homepage so we can download them at our convenience. Thanks! Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 20:06:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA23614; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:54:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:54:29 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Secong Test to DNMEC Over Unity Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:54:19 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32dd9e2b.5474674@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <32DD4A55.B74@mail.enternet.com.au> In-Reply-To: <32DD4A55.B74@mail.enternet.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IDNng1.0.nm5.nVlto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1478 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 07:51:25 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: >Hi, > >Attached are the four Gifs for the second test of my DNMEC >experiments. > >Ferrite block attraction is as follows : > >Test 1 (FFNS NSFF Adding flux) 1.2 Newtons >Test 2 (FFNS SNFF Opposing flux) 56 Newtons > >Test 3 (FFNSFF FFNSFF Adding flux) 9 Newtons >Test 4 (FFNSFF FFSNFF Opposing flux) 5 Newtons > Greg, In fnsffsnf.gif the flux density in the moving ferrite appears to be considerably greater than in fnsffnsf.gif, yet the latter yields a higher force according to the above. Have you perhaps accidentally exchanged something, or are the above actual measurements taken in difficult to control circumstances? (Or are we looking at the collapse of the Maxwell equations?) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 20:19:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA23697; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:54:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:54:43 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: LC Tanks...Energy and Time Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:54:22 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32dea02e.5989134@mail.netspace.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q0f7l2.0.4o5.-Vlto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1479 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 16 Jan 97 11:12 NZDT, Stuart Rae wrote: [snip] > >1) Is there a SIMPLE and ABSOLUTE method of experimentally detecting >temporal change in the area of operation? Yes, leave your watch there. > >2) In fact, why would any temporal change be confined to the area of >operation ONLY? Or would we expect it to diminish inversely with the square >of the distance? Leave another watch further away. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 20:29:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA28955; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:18:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:18:07 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:49:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701170349.TAA05237@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Resent-Message-ID: <"XbNEK2.0.H47.xrlto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1480 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:22 AM 1/17/97 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >I think I have solved this night the question, >why Newman machines can go overunity ! > Stefan: I have been watching and listening with interest. I have a couple of questions. I just received a Tesla patent on Bifillar windings. In general he says that a coil constructed this way cancels out its self inductance. In addition, since there is energy flowing in different directions, each seperate winding of the bi-fillar winding is positive and negative. This gives the wire capacatance, which self tunes the circuit. Test were shown that proved the stored energy in the winding of a bi-fillar winding has fourteen hundred percent more stored energy than a conventional winding. If I understand this correctly, it would mean that you could get the same back emf with fourteen hundred percent less windings. If you are interested, I can post the results of the test and also the construction of the coils which can be duplicated in a couple of hours. Another thing: I understand that the first Newman machine used a magnet that oscillated up and down. If this works how far does the magnet have to move? Is it possible that a broad band Piezo transducer could be mounted on a magnet and vibrated at the resonant frequency of the coil or magnet? Or does there have to be a complete change of flux, as in the rotating magnet? I talked to Evan, and he indicated that the faster the magnet moved, the more output you get. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 21:17:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA06950; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:17:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:17:32 -0800 Message-ID: <32DEC50B.A35@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:17:15 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! References: <199701170322.EAA12345@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5Pbku.0.Ti1.fjmto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1481 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Hi, > > I think I have solved this night the question, > why Newman machines can go overunity ! > > Thanks to Greg Watson´s new > DNMEC theory and his comment, that the magnetic energy > stored in a coil does not change, > I finally came after years of research > this evening to the final conclusion. > > Here it is how a Newman machine can go overunity, > shown with formulas and an example ! > > Please let me know your comments: > > Let me explain it as an example ! > > Suppose we have an aircore Newman coil > with many windings. The parameters for this coil are: > > L=100 Henry > R=10.000 Ohm I hate this, but have you any idea what a 100 Henry air core coil is? With ten ohms resistance, at an inductance of 100 Henry? > Time constant TAU=L/R=10 msec= 0.01 sec > Battery voltage: 1000 Volts DC > > 1. Now connect this aircore coil to the Battery. > (No ferrite rod or permanent magnet yet in sight,so > just think about the coil L with its DC resistance R !) > > Now a magnetic field is building up in the aircore > coil and the DC current is beginning to flow. > > After about 5 x tau=R/L=50 msec the current has reached its > final value which is given by the ohmic resistance and > the battery voltage. You will find that 100 ohms for a 100 Henry air core coil is out of the question, so these calculations do not describe reality. > Thus a final current of 0.1 Amperes flows inside the coil > to keep the magnetic field up. > > At this time inside this aircore coil there is the magnetic > field energy stored which is calculated to: > W=0.5LI^2= 0.5 Wattseconds (Ws) or 0.5 Joules. > > Now after 50 msec thus the energy output into the circuit from > the battery has been about 0.5 Ws for the inductance L stored > in its magnetical field PLUS about 3.5 Ws losses as heat at its > ohmic resistance R=10.000 Ohm. > Thus the total input into the coil from the battery was about 4 Ws > in this 50 ms period. > > 2. Now comes the KEY information to understand Newman machines: > > As Greg said, the Energy stored in this coil wants to stay > CONSTANT, the key information is just the formula: > > W= 0.5 L I^2 > > If you look closely to this formula you can see, that the stored > energy inside the coil after 50 msec depends greatly on the current ! > As it is also in square, so even more ! > So the input energy we have spent to get > magnetic energy stored inside the coil COULD BE REDUCED by just dropping > the current down and increase greatly the INDUCTANCE L !!! > > This is very important ! To store the SAME AMOUNT of ENERGY inside the COIL > you can just use a much higher inductance L and USE LESS INPUT ENERGY via > the current I !!!! (Assuming the Time constant TAU does not change !) Not this again! We have been here before. > Thus if you write this formula the other way around it shows you: > I= (2W/L)^(1/2) > > So if you raise L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry you will only need > an end current of 0.01 Amperes = 10 mA after the 50 msec time period > to reach the SAME STORED magnetic energy inside the COIL L ! > (STILL 0.5 Ws !) 10,000 Henry air core coil of what resistance??? > BUT IF YOU NOW CALCULATE the USED ENERGY from the BATTERY it will > show you, that you now only HAVE USED about 0.4 Ws for the > total of 50 msec input time period !!!) > > 3. So how do you get L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry with no other > energy input ? Easy: Just use a big moving ferrite rod, which moves > into the direction of the coil, as the battery voltage is switched > onto the coil at the beginning of the 50 msec time period ! > After the 50 msec has passed, > a) the rod is totally inside the coil > b) the coil inductance L has a stored energy of 0.5 Ws > c) the Battery was charged 0.4 Ws > d) the rods kinetic energy has increased > > Thus OVERUNITY ! Thus error? Please re-read Horace Heffner's EXCELLENT post on this subject! You have used ideal values that do not match reality to support a theroy, but the result does not describe reality. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 16 21:39:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA10137; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:39:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:39:05 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970116213925.0098cc48@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:39:29 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"rFgQO1.0.8U2.s1nto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1482 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MY REPLIES ARE BETWEEN THE LINES. At 04:22 AM 1/17/97 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >I think I have solved this night the question, >why Newman machines can go overunity ! > >Thanks to Greg Watson=B4s new >DNMEC theory and his comment, that the magnetic energy >stored in a coil does not change, >I finally came after years of research >this evening to the final conclusion. > >Here it is how a Newman machine can go overunity, >shown with formulas and an example ! > >Please let me know your comments: > >Let me explain it as an example ! > >Suppose we have an aircore Newman coil >with many windings. The parameters for this coil are: > >L=3D100 Henry >R=3D10.000 Ohm >Time constant TAU=3DL/R=3D10 msec=3D 0.01 sec >Battery voltage: 1000 Volts DC > > >1. Now connect this aircore coil to the Battery. >(No ferrite rod or permanent magnet yet in sight,so >just think about the coil L with its DC resistance R !) For best efficiency I think R should be as small as possible and L as large as possible. >Now a magnetic field is building up in the aircore >coil and the DC current is beginning to flow. Ideally the DC current should increase without limit until the external power supply is disconnected. The coil DC resistance in not a good way to limit the current in the coil, the current should be limited with the "charging time" instead. >After about 5 x tau=3DR/L=3D50 msec the current has reached its >final value which is given by the ohmic resistance and >the battery voltage. In order to prevent the waste of the input current in the coils resistance, the current should never be allowed to build UP TO to the I=3DE/R limit. Approaching this limit will only wastes the energy provided by the external power supply. The current supply to the coil should be shut off before the I=3DE/R limit is reached (or closely approached) >Thus a final current of 0.1 Amperes flows inside the coil >to keep the magnetic field up. If it wasn't for the coil resistance this final current would flow through the coil forever WITHOUT the power supply. Once again coil's DC resistance is our enemy. >At this time inside this aircore coil there is the magnetic >field energy stored which is calculated to: >W=3D0.5LI^2=3D 0.5 Wattseconds (Ws) or 0.5 Joules. Yes, and with ideal (R=3D0) coil no external power supply is necessary to maintain this energy level. >Now after 50 msec thus the energy output into the circuit from >the battery has been about 0.5 Ws for the inductance L stored >in its magnetical field PLUS about 3.5 Ws losses as heat at its >ohmic resistance R=3D10.000 Ohm. So it is clear that with low R and high L we get the best efficiency. >Thus the total input into the coil from the battery was about 4 Ws >in this 50 ms period. Too bad that we wasted this 3.5Ws in the coil's resistance. >2. Now comes the KEY information to understand Newman machines: >As Greg said, the Energy stored in this coil wants to stay=20 >CONSTANT, the key information is just the formula: >W=3D 0.5 L I^2 I agree >If you look closely to this formula you can see, that the stored >energy inside the coil after 50 msec depends greatly on the current ! >As it is also in square, so even more !=20 >So the input energy we have spent to get >magnetic energy stored inside the coil COULD BE REDUCED by just dropping >the current down and increase greatly the INDUCTANCE L !!! Yes. For example if current drops 2 times we must raise L 4 times to keep the energy the same. Of course during that time the DC resistance of the coil is wasting the energy continuously. >This is very important ! To store the SAME AMOUNT of ENERGY inside the= COIL >you can just use a much higher inductance L and USE LESS INPUT ENERGY via >the current I !!!! (Assuming the Time constant TAU does not change !) But the time required to pump the coil to the same energy level with less current but higher inductance DOES increase. For example when we raise L 4 times more we do indeed need 2 times less current but 2 times more time to build up this current. The same is true if we wanted to extract the energy from the coil, we could draw less current but for a longer time. t=3DL/R >Thus if you write this formula the other way around it shows you: >I=3D (2W/L)^(1/2) =20 >So if you raise L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry you will only need >an end current of 0.01 Amperes =3D 10 mA after the 50 msec time period=20 >to reach the SAME STORED magnetic energy inside the COIL L ! >(STILL 0.5 Ws !)=20 But the time required for the current to reach the 0.01A level will increase to 500msec. It will not stay at 50msec >BUT IF YOU NOW CALCULATE the USED ENERGY from the BATTERY it will >show you, that you now only HAVE USED about 0.4 Ws for the=20 >total of 50 msec input time period !!!) No because in 50msec the energy in the coil will not build up to the same level as before since the time necessary to do this now has increased to 500msec (more L means more time) >3. So how do you get L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry with no other >energy input ? Easy: Just use a big moving ferrite rod, which moves >into the direction of the coil, as the battery voltage is switched I agree >onto the coil at the beginning of the 50 msec time period ! >After the 50 msec has passed,=20 >a) the rod is totally inside the coil >b) the coil inductance L has a stored energy of 0.5 Ws What about Scott's Little objection that the volume V of the coil's magnetic field B has now decreased making the energy of the coil equal to 0.5*B^2*V. Does the B get compressed by the flux concentrating property of the ferrite enough to compensate for the shrinking V ? >c) the Battery was charged 0.4 Ws Since the battery is supplying the current shouldn't you say: "Battery has DISCHARGED 0.4Ws of energy into the coil" ? >d) the rods kinetic energy has increased Yes, but did this kinetic energy increase cause the magnetic energy of the coil to decrease because the ferrite has caused the volume (V) of B to decrease ? W =3D 0.5*B^2*V/mu >Thus OVERUNITY ! If the "volume of B decrease" objection is not valid than you are most likely correct. >4. Now it comes the time to get back the energy from this system: > >a) Open the coil circuit and flash all the stored 0.5 Ws energy >of the coil via a neon tube and the ohmic resistance of the coil, >so you have some light output and the coil resistance is heated ! Yes but once again the coil's resistance is wasting energy during the "flashing" process. >All stored magnetic energy inside the coil is thus "flashed" away ! >(this is done during a few msec when the rod is totally inside >the coil,so the rod does not get any mechanical drag due to it..) Yes. Also the magnetic field of the coil DOES NOT increase as the result of this "flashing" so the back drag on the ferrite rod occurs at the same intensity as the forward attraction BUT in much shorter time interval. This makes the ferrite's kinetic energy gain and subsequent loss very asymmetrical. >b) the onmoving ferrite rod has increased speed when leaving the >coil ! (the coil does not have any energy stored anmore, >the circuit is still open) Yes but we can claim overunity only if we recover the energy during the "flashing" process. Otherwise we will need the external power supply to supply the current to the coil each time we charge the initial inductance L (without the ferrite). >and when it passes next time the coil (going back in a circular path;=20 >imagine the ferrite rod is moving in a circular track !)=20 >it will even reduce the amount >of charges needed from the battery input, cause the increased back=20 >EMF will reduce input current into the coil some further ! Only because the increased speed of the ferrite will decrease the time the DC resistance of the coil wastes energy. If the coil was superconductive the speed of the ferrite would not matter at all. >All this is happening inside the first big Newman machines machines. > >There the ferrite rod is the Permanent magnet, which rotates inside >the coil , but also does change the inductance L, when it >moves from 90 degrees to 0 degrees, thus the same effect. Also >cause this is a PM the induced back EMF is still stronger in this case >so that still less input current and thus power is needed to reach the same >effects ! > >5. The big trick is: It seems that the time constant TAU=3DL/R >seems to stay constant and does not move from 50 msec to 1 sec=20 But if the charge/discharge current decreases we must have more time to collect this current. For example 50mA*1sec =3D 5mA*10sec. If we collected the 5mA for the same time as we used to charge the 50mA than we would collect only 1/10 of the energy. >as it would be, if the ferrite rod would be already at the beginning of=20 >the cycle be placed inside the coil ! >So conclusion is: >The DYNAMIC PENETRATION of the FERRITE ROD INTO THE COIL >DOES NOT SEEM to LONGEN TAU ! As the voltage is applied >when the rod is not yet in sight, the coil seems to remember >its current TAU=3DL/R and does not change it over time. Why do you say that ? If the L of the coil increases so will the time necessary to charge/discharge the coil. >Remember we are here confronted with a totally NONLINEAR=20 >circuit ! Yes, the moving ferrite makes it very nonlinear. >Please reread this article again and again and let me know some >comments ! It might lead us to a new understanding on how to construct >more efficient Overunity Newman machines, by reducing the weight=20 >of the coil and using less expensive wire and instead using a bigger >ferrite rod (instead of PM) and thus reducing cost of production. > >BTW, what about using ferrite wire instead of copper wire ??? >Has anybody tried this yet ? What kind of effect will a >coil of ferrite or iron wire have ? Will the B magnetisation >curve be differnet to those of copper wire when energized via=20 >a DC voltage supply ? Will the additional magnet allignment >inside the wire require less electrical power to get the same magnet >field density at he coil=B4s surface ? It is hard for me to say, but I hope that it is clear that the DC resistance of the coil gives us NO ADVANTAGE (in fact it just wastes energy). On the other side, higher inductance (more turns) gives us a lot of advantages. Unfortunately more turns usually means more DC resistance unless you are using superconductive wire. In the iron wire question, the increased resistance per turn of the iron might cause less efficiency than copper. >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 00:30:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA16568; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:21:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:21:20 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970117002158.009c8278@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 00:22:00 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Archives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"U5JeU3.0.n24.-Ppto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1483 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Where can I access the past archives for NEWMAN-L listserv ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 01:56:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA25858; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:31:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:31:28 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970117013111.009dcaa4@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:32:05 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: DNMEC & the Newman function principle !! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailedby: NT SMTP/LISTSERVER v2.11 (ntmail@net-shopper.co.uk) Resent-Message-ID: <"FJpYg2.0.uJ6.lRqto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1484 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MY REPLIES ARE BETWEEN THE LINES. At 04:22 AM 1/17/97 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, > >I think I have solved this night the question, >why Newman machines can go overunity ! > >Thanks to Greg Watson=B4s new >DNMEC theory and his comment, that the magnetic energy >stored in a coil does not change, >I finally came after years of research >this evening to the final conclusion. > >Here it is how a Newman machine can go overunity, >shown with formulas and an example ! > >Please let me know your comments: > >Let me explain it as an example ! > >Suppose we have an aircore Newman coil >with many windings. The parameters for this coil are: > >L=3D100 Henry >R=3D10.000 Ohm >Time constant TAU=3DL/R=3D10 msec=3D 0.01 sec >Battery voltage: 1000 Volts DC > > >1. Now connect this aircore coil to the Battery. >(No ferrite rod or permanent magnet yet in sight,so >just think about the coil L with its DC resistance R !) For best efficiency I think R should be as small as possible and L as large as possible. >Now a magnetic field is building up in the aircore >coil and the DC current is beginning to flow. Ideally the DC current should increase without limit until the external power supply is disconnected. The coil DC resistance in not a good way to limit the current in the coil, the current should be limited with the "charging time" instead. >After about 5 x tau=3DR/L=3D50 msec the current has reached its >final value which is given by the ohmic resistance and >the battery voltage. In order to prevent the waste of the input current in the coils resistance, the current should never be allowed to build UP TO to the I=3DE/R limit. Approaching this limit will only wastes the energy provided by the external power supply. The current supply to the coil should be shut off before the I=3DE/R limit is reached (or closely approached) >Thus a final current of 0.1 Amperes flows inside the coil >to keep the magnetic field up. If it wasn't for the coil resistance this final current would flow through the coil forever WITHOUT the power supply. Once again coil's DC resistance is our enemy. >At this time inside this aircore coil there is the magnetic >field energy stored which is calculated to: >W=3D0.5LI^2=3D 0.5 Wattseconds (Ws) or 0.5 Joules. Yes, and with ideal (R=3D0) coil no external power supply is necessary to maintain this energy level. >Now after 50 msec thus the energy output into the circuit from >the battery has been about 0.5 Ws for the inductance L stored >in its magnetical field PLUS about 3.5 Ws losses as heat at its >ohmic resistance R=3D10.000 Ohm. So it is clear that with low R and high L we get the best efficiency. >Thus the total input into the coil from the battery was about 4 Ws >in this 50 ms period. Too bad that we wasted this 3.5Ws in the coil's resistance. >2. Now comes the KEY information to understand Newman machines: >As Greg said, the Energy stored in this coil wants to stay=20 >CONSTANT, the key information is just the formula: >W=3D 0.5 L I^2 I agree >If you look closely to this formula you can see, that the stored >energy inside the coil after 50 msec depends greatly on the current ! >As it is also in square, so even more !=20 >So the input energy we have spent to get >magnetic energy stored inside the coil COULD BE REDUCED by just dropping >the current down and increase greatly the INDUCTANCE L !!! Yes. For example if current drops 2 times we must raise L 4 times to keep the energy the same. Of course during that time the DC resistance of the coil is wasting the energy continuously. >This is very important ! To store the SAME AMOUNT of ENERGY inside the= COIL >you can just use a much higher inductance L and USE LESS INPUT ENERGY via >the current I !!!! (Assuming the Time constant TAU does not change !) But the time required to pump the coil to the same energy level with less current but higher inductance DOES increase. For example when we raise L 4 times more we do indeed need 2 times less current but 2 times more time to build up this current. The same is true if we wanted to extract the energy from the coil, we could draw less current but for a longer time. t=3DL/R >Thus if you write this formula the other way around it shows you: >I=3D (2W/L)^(1/2) =20 >So if you raise L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry you will only need >an end current of 0.01 Amperes =3D 10 mA after the 50 msec time period=20 >to reach the SAME STORED magnetic energy inside the COIL L ! >(STILL 0.5 Ws !)=20 But the time required for the current to reach the 0.01A level will increase to 500msec. It will not stay at 50msec >BUT IF YOU NOW CALCULATE the USED ENERGY from the BATTERY it will >show you, that you now only HAVE USED about 0.4 Ws for the=20 >total of 50 msec input time period !!!) No because in 50msec the energy in the coil will not build up to the same level as before since the time necessary to do this now has increased to 500msec (more L means more time) >3. So how do you get L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry with no other >energy input ? Easy: Just use a big moving ferrite rod, which moves >into the direction of the coil, as the battery voltage is switched I agree >onto the coil at the beginning of the 50 msec time period ! >After the 50 msec has passed,=20 >a) the rod is totally inside the coil >b) the coil inductance L has a stored energy of 0.5 Ws What about Scott's Little objection that the volume V of the coil's magnetic field B has now decreased making the energy of the coil equal to 0.5*B^2*V. Does the B get compressed by the flux concentrating property of the ferrite enough to compensate for the shrinking V ? >c) the Battery was charged 0.4 Ws Since the battery is supplying the current shouldn't you say: "Battery has DISCHARGED 0.4Ws of energy into the coil" ? >d) the rods kinetic energy has increased Yes, but did this kinetic energy increase cause the magnetic energy of the coil to decrease because the ferrite has caused the volume (V) of B to decrease ? W =3D 0.5*B^2*V/mu >Thus OVERUNITY ! If the "volume of B decrease" objection is not valid than you are most likely correct. >4. Now it comes the time to get back the energy from this system: > >a) Open the coil circuit and flash all the stored 0.5 Ws energy >of the coil via a neon tube and the ohmic resistance of the coil, >so you have some light output and the coil resistance is heated ! Yes but once again the coil's resistance is wasting energy during the "flashing" process. >All stored magnetic energy inside the coil is thus "flashed" away ! >(this is done during a few msec when the rod is totally inside >the coil,so the rod does not get any mechanical drag due to it..) Yes. Also the magnetic field of the coil DOES NOT increase as the result of this "flashing" so the back drag on the ferrite rod occurs at the same intensity as the forward attraction BUT in much shorter time interval. This makes the ferrite's kinetic energy gain and subsequent loss very asymmetrical. >b) the onmoving ferrite rod has increased speed when leaving the >coil ! (the coil does not have any energy stored anmore, >the circuit is still open) Yes but we can claim overunity only if we recover the energy during the "flashing" process. Otherwise we will need the external power supply to supply the current to the coil each time we charge the initial inductance L (without the ferrite). >and when it passes next time the coil (going back in a circular path;=20 >imagine the ferrite rod is moving in a circular track !)=20 >it will even reduce the amount >of charges needed from the battery input, cause the increased back=20 >EMF will reduce input current into the coil some further ! Only because the increased speed of the ferrite will decrease the time the DC resistance of the coil wastes energy. If the coil was superconductive the speed of the ferrite would not matter at all. >All this is happening inside the first big Newman machines machines. > >There the ferrite rod is the Permanent magnet, which rotates inside >the coil , but also does change the inductance L, when it >moves from 90 degrees to 0 degrees, thus the same effect. Also >cause this is a PM the induced back EMF is still stronger in this case >so that still less input current and thus power is needed to reach the same >effects ! > >5. The big trick is: It seems that the time constant TAU=3DL/R >seems to stay constant and does not move from 50 msec to 1 sec=20 But if the charge/discharge current decreases we must have more time to collect this current. For example 50mA*1sec =3D 5mA*10sec. If we collected the 5mA for the same time as we used to charge the 50mA than we would collect only 1/10 of the energy. >as it would be, if the ferrite rod would be already at the beginning of=20 >the cycle be placed inside the coil ! >So conclusion is: >The DYNAMIC PENETRATION of the FERRITE ROD INTO THE COIL >DOES NOT SEEM to LONGEN TAU ! As the voltage is applied >when the rod is not yet in sight, the coil seems to remember >its current TAU=3DL/R and does not change it over time. Why do you say that ? If the L of the coil increases so will the time necessary to charge/discharge the coil. >Remember we are here confronted with a totally NONLINEAR=20 >circuit ! Yes, the moving ferrite makes it very nonlinear. >Please reread this article again and again and let me know some >comments ! It might lead us to a new understanding on how to construct >more efficient Overunity Newman machines, by reducing the weight=20 >of the coil and using less expensive wire and instead using a bigger >ferrite rod (instead of PM) and thus reducing cost of production. > >BTW, what about using ferrite wire instead of copper wire ??? >Has anybody tried this yet ? What kind of effect will a >coil of ferrite or iron wire have ? Will the B magnetisation >curve be differnet to those of copper wire when energized via=20 >a DC voltage supply ? Will the additional magnet allignment >inside the wire require less electrical power to get the same magnet >field density at he coil=B4s surface ? It is hard for me to say, but I hope that it is clear that the DC resistance of the coil gives us NO ADVANTAGE (in fact it just wastes energy). On the other side, higher inductance (more turns) gives us a lot of advantages. Unfortunately more turns usually means more DC resistance unless you are using superconductive wire. In the iron wire question, the increased resistance per turn of the iron might cause less efficiency than copper. >Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 02:14:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA06449; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:26:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:26:17 -0800 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:26:07 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Entry to Ideas Archive (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5_zya1.0.da1.dQbto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1472 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:55:40 -0800 From: Billy Subject: Entry to Ideas Archive You have a new entry in Ideas Archive: http://www.halcyon.com/sciclub/cgi-pvt/scifair/guestbook.html ------------------------------------------------------ I'm doing my science fair project on subliminal messages and I can't find any reasearch for it. Please e-mail me if you find anything. Billy Hastings, PA USA - Wednesday, January 15, 1997 at 09:55:39 (PST) ------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 03:10:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA30956; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:35:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:35:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32DF50F3.2005@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:44:11 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Secong Test to DNMEC Over Unity References: <32DD4A55.B74@mail.enternet.com.au> <32dd9e2b.5474674@mail.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZEqse3.0.cZ7.wNrto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1485 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 07:51:25 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >Attached are the four Gifs for the second test of my DNMEC > >experiments. > > > >Ferrite block attraction is as follows : > > > >Test 1 (FFNS NSFF Adding flux) 1.2 Newtons > >Test 2 (FFNS SNFF Opposing flux) 56 Newtons > > > >Test 3 (FFNSFF FFNSFF Adding flux) 9 Newtons > >Test 4 (FFNSFF FFSNFF Opposing flux) 5 Newtons > > > Greg, > > In fnsffsnf.gif the flux density in the moving ferrite appears to be > considerably greater than in fnsffnsf.gif, yet the latter yields a higher > force according to the above. Have you perhaps accidentally exchanged > something, or are the above actual measurements taken in difficult to > control circumstances? > (Or are we looking at the collapse of the Maxwell equations?) > [snip] > Regards, Hi Robin, No, The images are in the correct sequence. I noticed this myself, good to see someone is thinking. Quick Field scales the colour and field lines to range from max in the sample to min in the sample. Perhaps I should have held the scale constant for both samples. The fsnffnsf looks like more lines are flowing in the ferrite, but the flux density is much lower. Try it. You can feel the difference. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 03:54:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA03768; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:32:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 03:32:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199701171132.DAA03746@mx1.eskimo.com> X-Sender: 9512675@PoPMail.UL.IE X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: 9512675@UL.IE (T. SOLINAC) Subject: Re: LC Tanks...Energy and Time Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <"sdQ6D.0.nw.wCsto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1486 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Thu, 16 Jan 97 11:12 NZDT, Stuart Rae wrote: >[snip] >> >>1) Is there a SIMPLE and ABSOLUTE method of experimentally detecting >>temporal change in the area of operation? > >Yes, leave your watch there. >> >>2) In fact, why would any temporal change be confined to the area of >>operation ONLY? Or would we expect it to diminish inversely with the square >>of the distance? > >Leave another watch further away. >[snip] >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* >Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on >temperature. >"....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." >-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > >Mechanical movement or Quartz?????? T. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 07:33:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA32205; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:08:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:08:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:09:54 +0100 Message-Id: <199701171509.QAA14789@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: bshannon@tiac.net From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@localaccess.com, ralph.hartwell@emachine.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz, JNaudin509@aol.com, redorman@plix.com, newman-l@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"lkZaq1.0.4t7._Nvto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1488 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> I think I have solved this night the question, >> why Newman machines can go overunity ! >>=20 >> Thanks to Greg Watson=B4s new >> DNMEC theory and his comment, that the magnetic energy >> stored in a coil does not change, >> I finally came after years of research >> this evening to the final conclusion. >>=20 >> Here it is how a Newman machine can go overunity, >> shown with formulas and an example ! >>=20 >> Please let me know your comments: >>=20 >> Let me explain it as an example ! >>=20 >> Suppose we have an aircore Newman coil >> with many windings. The parameters for this coil are: >>=20 >> L=3D100 Henry >> R=3D10.000 Ohm > >I hate this, but have you any idea what a 100 Henry air core coil is? > >With ten ohms resistance, at an inductance of 100 Henry? > No, not 10 ohms of resistance but ten-thousand ! In German language you make the dot at the thousand location ! So I should have written: 10.000,00 Ohms.=20 or just 10 K Ohms . This would have made it clearer ! > >> Time constant TAU=3DL/R=3D10 msec=3D 0.01 sec This statement should have it made clear, that the ohmic resistance is not 10 Ohms but 10 K Ohms ! >> Battery voltage: 1000 Volts DC >>=20 >> 1. Now connect this aircore coil to the Battery. >> (No ferrite rod or permanent magnet yet in sight,so >> just think about the coil L with its DC resistance R !) >>=20 >> Now a magnetic field is building up in the aircore >> coil and the DC current is beginning to flow. >>=20 >> After about 5 x tau=3DR/L=3D50 msec the current has reached its >> final value which is given by the ohmic resistance and >> the battery voltage. > >You will find that 100 ohms for a 100 Henry air core coil is out of the >question, so these calculations do not describe reality. Again 10 K Ohms ! So it is for real ! 10 K Ohms for such a coil is very real, I have build coils like this myself for my Newman machines ! :) Have a look at my Newman machines pictures at: http://www.overunity.de/newman.htm There is one pic of me buiding such a coil ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 07:39:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA32182; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:08:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:08:43 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:08:04 +0100 Message-Id: <199701171508.QAA14780@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: newman-l@emachine.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Newman and Testatika principles=equals ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, epitaxy@localaccess.com, ralph.hartwell@emachine.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de Resent-Message-ID: <"EtH1t.0.ms7.vNvto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1487 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I bet, the Newman machine principle I have described yeasterday is the same principle as the Swiss Methernitha Testatika principle, but there the principle is used with electrostatics and not magnetics. Have again a look at it in my overunity MPEG movies site: http://www.overunity.de/movies There are now also the Testatika MPEG movies again ! So what in Newman=B4s case the Current and the Inductance L is, is in the Testatika case the Voltage V and the Capacitance C. So the main principle in the Testatika Machine is, to change the capacitance over time and get FREE Attraction of the capacitor plates and thus reduced electrical input ! So as it is seems that with Newman machines we have always a high ohmic resistance inside the coils which makes it difficult to get the energy back from the coil and not to waste it as heat, it seems to be easier to build it as a Testatika machine where there are not so many losses ! The main question is now: How do I get a capacitor, which can change over time from say: 500 mikro Farad to 10000 mikro Farad ? Is there any possibility to build such a "dynamic" capacitor other than using different capacitor plate distances ? How about controlling the capacitance of a cap without mechanical plate dimension, but via an electrostatic or magnetic=20 field to alter the dielectricum inside a capacitor ? Has something like this already be invented ? If yes, I could think of a totally static "nonmoving" overunity generator ! Please let me know your comments ! Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 08:05:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA32531; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:11:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:11:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:12:04 +0100 Message-Id: <199701171512.QAA14803@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Epitaxy From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, ralph.hartwell@emachine.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, srae@mlb.planet.gen.nz, JNaudin509@aol.com, redorman@plix.com, newman-l@emachine.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"7yNo.0.8y7.9Qvto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1489 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: See my new replies between the old quoted sentences ! >>Suppose we have an aircore Newman coil >>with many windings. The parameters for this coil are: >> >>L=100 Henry >>R=10.000,00 Ohm = 10 K Ohms >>Time constant TAU=L/R=10 msec= 0.01 sec >>Battery voltage: 1000 Volts DC >> >> >>1. Now connect this aircore coil to the Battery. >>(No ferrite rod or permanent magnet yet in sight,so >>just think about the coil L with its DC resistance R !) > >For best efficiency I think R should be as small as possible and L as large >as possible. > >>Now a magnetic field is building up in the aircore >>coil and the DC current is beginning to flow. > >Ideally the DC current should increase without limit until the external >power supply is disconnected. The coil DC resistance in not a good way to >limit the current in the coil, the current should be limited with the >"charging time" instead. I agree, but as I wanted to describe a REAL Newman system we must live with the DC resistance for this example ! > >>After about 5 x tau=R/L=50 msec the current has reached its >>final value which is given by the ohmic resistance and >>the battery voltage. > >In order to prevent the waste of the input current in the coils resistance, >the current should never be allowed to build UP TO to the I=E/R limit. >Approaching this limit will only wastes the energy provided by the external >power supply. The current supply to the coil should be shut off before the >I=E/R limit is reached (or closely approached) I agree again, but I wanted to describe a REAL Newman system , so we must live with the DC resistance for this example ! > >>Thus a final current of 0.1 Amperes flows inside the coil >>to keep the magnetic field up. > >If it wasn't for the coil resistance this final current would flow through >the coil forever WITHOUT the power supply. Once again coil's DC resistance >is our enemy. Yes, agreed ! But let us use it for now to describe the REAL thing ! > >>At this time inside this aircore coil there is the magnetic >>field energy stored which is calculated to: >>W=0.5LI^2= 0.5 Wattseconds (Ws) or 0.5 Joules. > >Yes, and with ideal (R=0) coil no external power supply is necessary to >maintain this energy level. Okay, yes, you hate DC resistance ! But see the system also as a heater ! So I like to get it warm in winter time ! :) We just had minus 20 degrees in beginning ojf January over here ! :) > >>Now after 50 msec thus the energy output into the circuit from >>the battery has been about 0.5 Ws for the inductance L stored >>in its magnetical field PLUS about 3.5 Ws losses as heat at its >>ohmic resistance R=10.000 Ohm ( 10 K Ohms). > >So it is clear that with low R and high L we get the best efficiency. Right ! Agreed ! > >>Thus the total input into the coil from the battery was about 4 Ws >>in this 50 ms period. > >Too bad that we wasted this 3.5Ws in the coil's resistance. See it as a heater circuit ! Your kitchen gets warm in winter time ! :) > >>2. Now comes the KEY information to understand Newman machines: > >>As Greg said, the Energy stored in this coil wants to stay >>CONSTANT, the key information is just the formula: >>W= 0.5 L I^2 > >I agree > >>If you look closely to this formula you can see, that the stored >>energy inside the coil after 50 msec depends greatly on the current ! >>As it is also in square, so even more ! >>So the input energy we have spent to get >>magnetic energy stored inside the coil COULD BE REDUCED by just dropping >>the current down and increase greatly the INDUCTANCE L !!! > >Yes. For example if current drops 2 times we must raise L 4 times to keep >the energy the same. Of course during that time the DC resistance of the >coil is wasting the energy continuously. Okay ! > >>This is very important ! To store the SAME AMOUNT of ENERGY inside the COIL >>you can just use a much higher inductance L and USE LESS INPUT ENERGY via >>the current I !!!! (Assuming the Time constant TAU does not change !) > >But the time required to pump the coil to the same energy level with less >current but higher inductance DOES increase. For example when we raise L 4 >times more we do indeed need 2 times less current but 2 times more time to >build up this current. This is the KEY information ! As usual formular says, Epitaxy is right here ! You would need longer time to build up the magnetic field ! But it seems this is not true in such a dynamic Nonlinear system ! As the Coil is just an aircore coil at the beginning t=0 sec. The applied voltage of 1000 Volts DC is directly applied at the inductance L and the ohmic resistance voltage is ZERO Volts at this moment ! Thus I guess, the coil Inductance remembers, what maximum current to build up during the next 50 msec and thus thinks to rise to 0.1 Ampere in the next 50 msec ! But now the ferrite rod moves into the coil and induces back EMF, so the coil is not possible to build up the current to this level, but just to 10 mA ! 0nly one 10th of the expected value ! >>Thus if you write this formula the other way around it shows you: >>I= (2W/L)^(1/2) >>So if you raise L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry you will only need >>an end current of 0.01 Amperes = 10 mA after the 50 msec time period >>to reach the SAME STORED magnetic energy inside the COIL L ! >>(STILL 0.5 Ws !) > >But the time required for the current to reach the 0.01A level will >increase to 500msec. It will not stay at 50msec Well, yes, normal formular predicts that, but for the formular to be true you have to have a STATIC device and NO MOVING CHANGING DYNAMIC NONLINEAR SYSTEM ! Again, it seems as if the coil remembers the applied voltage at t=0 sec and builds up the W=0.5LI^2 according to the expected endcurrent of 0.1 Amperes. So as the rod moves in the current is reduced but after the 50 msec the COMBINATION of rod and coil has still a stored magnetic energy of 0.5 Ws !!!! This is very important ! But due to the induced BACK EMF it has just used 0.4 Ws out of the battery ! This is how to HARNESS LENZ LAW ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 08:15:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA06381; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:46:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:46:24 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:46:19 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: Ken Seger cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: My son subscribed In-Reply-To: <32DB9EBB.1690@mail.accessus.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2gDuE2.0.dZ1.Exvto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1490 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Ken Seger wrote: > My son subscribed to your group. > Please remove kenseger@accessus.net from your email list. > I will get him his own email address and he can resubscribe then. > sincerely yours, Ken Seger Hi Ken! Your son should have the instructions for doing this. Another copy is included below. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page FREENRG-L Created: Sept. 1995 ************************************************************************* * TO SUBSCRIBE: * * Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * * word "subscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * * "subscribe," of course * * * * * * TO UNSUBSCRIBE: * * Send a blank email message to freenrg-L-request@eskimo.com with the * * word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT: line. No quotes around * * "unsubscribe," of course. * * * ************************************************************************* This list is for the discussion of experiments and devices which exhibit anomalous energy production (or consumption!), or which violate currently-accepted physics theory. This includes: * "Overunity" * Electrogravity & inertia violation * Scalar Electromagnetism * Psi phenomena and Paranormal * Relativity violation ...and any similar topics which the regular users consider interesting (ask us!) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 09:11:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA13247; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:17:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:17:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32DF5FCD.7D72@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:17:33 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity References: <3.0.32.19970115173935.0098018c@mail.localaccess.com> <32DDB073.BDF@mail.enternet.com.au> <32DE502C.2B2D@tiac.net> <32DEC83D.48A7@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oS6qY1.0.vE3.mOwto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1491 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Thanks for the input, I enjoy reading your posts. Really. But I think > we have again a case of Apples and Oranges. I must not express myself > very well. > > I will try to address your issues : > > 1) Magnetic fields consist of two components H and B. > 8) If more than one H field is flowing through the ferromagnetic > material > EACH domain will align to the vector sum of the H magnetizing fields > flowing through and surrounding THAT domain. > > 9) The result is that the ferromagnetic material will produce a B field > which ACTS AS IF the H magnetizing fields were summed. Becuase the flux will exit the material rather than suffer destructive interference (flux summing) there will be regions that have no magnetization. While this might appear similar to the flux having summed, it is s totally different thing. > I stand by my comments. Magnetics is not easy to understand and many > experimenters, including me, have spent many wasted hours trying to > understand what the heck is going on. > > I hope this helps to somewhat explain my earlier postings. Not at all Greg. Lecturing on basic magnetics does not resolve the following direct conflict from your posts: >From your email of 04 Jan 1997, in response to my posting "Re: Flux switching devices." of 2 Jan 1997, which described the behavior where flux will exit ferrite or other magnetic material rather than undergo "flux summing" : Greg Watson wrote: > Enclosed are Quick Field files to simulate your example. After you > download and unzip the program, put the files in the example directory. > You can alter the 2 coil strengths by editing the LibData. Like you, > I have verified the data in reality. So here we are saying that the flux will not remain confined to the magnetic material when presented with opposing flux. The flux undergoes distortion, but does not sum. Then on 14 Jan 1997 you posted exactly the opposite: > Hi Bob, > > Part of the answer to DNMEC is to understand that opposing fluxes > when forced to flow within the confines of a ferrite flux path > will not cause flux distortion (They can't easily escape from the > good conduction path of the ferrite). They just sum their differences > and reduce overall flux density flowing in the conduction path. > > When opposing fluxes mix in a air gap, flux distortion occurs and it > is the flux distortion that we must learn to use if we wish to move > toward Over Unity in moving magnetic systems. The phrase "They can't easily escape from the good conduction path of the ferrite" is totally wrong, and directly contradicts your post of Jan 04. This is not apples and oranges Greg. The statement "They just sum their differences and reduce overall flux density flowing in the conduction path" is also wrong, becuse the conduction path is no longer limited to the ferrite as you simulated, as shown in your post of Jan 04. You are presenting yourself as understanding magnetics quite well, and clearly you do have a good grasp of the subject. But your descriptions of actual phenomena has changed to support your theory of DNMEC, and you are giving readers clearly false information to support your theory. Here's the 'hook': > Neither the rod / coil or the two magnet test is attempting to > demonstrate over unity. Only the first two steps in understanding > why flux gate devices work as they do and soon why my future suggestions > may provide a path to a flux gate generator which has a chance at > providing Over Unity. > > Stay tuned. So you have presented yourself as having a degree of understanding of the subject, and worked to riase the overall level of understanding. Then you present yourself as being a source for suggestions which may provide a path to over unity devices with your theory of DNMEC, but in doing so you directly contradicted your earlier posting which also mentioned having verified the data in reality. (flux does not remain in the ferrite under opposition) When this contradiction is pointed out, your response is to post a basic text on magnetics, as if this is not already understood. After demonstrating your knowledge on the subject, you dismiss this direct contradiction as a matter of apples and oranges. If your going to teach the readers magnetics, get it right. If you want to jump on the Newman bandwagon that's fine. But if you are going to resort to pathological science to support your theory, you will be called on it. I think pathological science is a harsh, but fair term here, as you had clearly shown that you understood the true behavior in your earlier posts. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 09:32:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA20248; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:47:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:47:12 -0800 Message-ID: <32DF66B1.3B25@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:46:57 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! References: <199701171512.QAA14803@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5WZiC3.0.Cy4.Dqwto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1492 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > >>L=100 Henry > >>R=10.000,00 Ohm = 10 K Ohms > >>Time constant TAU=L/R=10 msec= 0.01 sec > >>Battery voltage: 1000 Volts DC Ok, got that at 10K ohms. I saw the "." used as a "," in the inductance value later in the posting. Thanks for clearing this up Stefan. > >>This is very important ! To store the SAME AMOUNT of ENERGY inside the COIL > >>you can just use a much higher inductance L and USE LESS INPUT ENERGY via > >>the current I !!!! (Assuming the Time constant TAU does not change !) > > > >But the time required to pump the coil to the same energy level with less > >current but higher inductance DOES increase. For example when we raise L 4 > >times more we do indeed need 2 times less current but 2 times more time to > >build up this current. > > This is the KEY information ! As usual formular says, Epitaxy is right here ! > You would need longer time to build up the magnetic field ! This also means that energy input to the coil is proportional to the energy stored in the coil. > But it seems this is not true in such a dynamic Nonlinear system ! > As the Coil is just an aircore coil at the beginning t=0 sec. The applied > voltage of 1000 Volts DC is directly applied at the inductance L > and the ohmic resistance voltage is ZERO Volts at this moment ! The voltage across the inductor is 1,000 volts. At t=0, current is zero, which is equivielent to an open circuit, with 'E-applied' across the open element. A capacitor would behave as you state, but not an inductor. > Thus I guess, the coil Inductance remembers, what maximum current to build > up during the next 50 msec and thus thinks to rise to 0.1 Ampere in the > next 50 msec ! > > But now the ferrite rod moves into the coil and induces back EMF, so the > coil is not possible to build up the current to this level, but just to > 10 mA ! 0nly one 10th of the expected value ! > > >>Thus if you write this formula the other way around it shows you: > >>I= (2W/L)^(1/2) > >>So if you raise L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry you will only need > >>an end current of 0.01 Amperes = 10 mA after the 50 msec time period > >>to reach the SAME STORED magnetic energy inside the COIL L ! > >>(STILL 0.5 Ws !) > > > >But the time required for the current to reach the 0.01A level will > >increase to 500msec. It will not stay at 50msec > > Well, yes, normal formular predicts that, but for the formular to be true > you have to have a STATIC device and > NO MOVING CHANGING DYNAMIC NONLINEAR SYSTEM ! To correctly calculate this, you need to integrate the changing current and inductance working against that current over time. If the core is in uniform motion, the system is still linear, although a bit more complex than the calculations above show. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 13:38:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA01175; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:04:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:04:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199701172059.PAA15652@w3.bluegrass.net> From: "Sam Gordon" To: Subject: Idea about gravity Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:56:10 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y_9ag1.0.GI.sb-to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1493 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I am not a scientist, but please allow me to set up a possible scenario. I like to visualize gravity as a force created by the movement of a almost liquid like substance. I know this sounds a bit strange, and I may be wrong, but if I'm right this allows us to manipulate this liquid like substance to create useful or destructive gravity forces. Now what this could mean is this, large masses of matter do not generate gravity, instead it is the liquid like nature of gravity's source that surrounds the mass and would like to fill the space occupied by the mass that actually generates the gravity force with force line starting from space and traveling toward the center of any mass. If the source of gravity fills all space like an ocean and we move thru it at some speed there has to be a connection to time. So if we we're to manipulate gravity we should be able to manipulate time as well. I was about to say let's assume (well this whole thing is an assumption). All space through out the universe contains the ocean that generates gravity. Could we not learn how to create ripples or waves in this vast medium to travel through space at unimaginable speeds. I think we will someday. You never know something could already be doing just that. If I where a being somewhere out in space and wanted to find other intelligent beings. I would base my communications on whatever I though was the most abundant type of energy around the universe. Could it be gravity waves??? I think that knowing the above, one should be ably to design and build a receiver capable of receiving variations of the incoming gravity forces. What do you think, am I totally nuts or what?? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 14:05:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA05205; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:23:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:23:35 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:25:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199701172125.WAA16581@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: Epitaxy From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle ? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au Resent-Message-ID: <"hFxRM.0.SG1.It-to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1496 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Yes. For example if current drops 2 times we must raise L 4 times to keep >the energy the same. Of course during that time the DC resistance of the >coil is wasting the energy continuously. > >>This is very important ! To store the SAME AMOUNT of ENERGY inside the= COIL >>you can just use a much higher inductance L and USE LESS INPUT ENERGY via >>the current I !!!! (Assuming the Time constant TAU does not change !) > >But the time required to pump the coil to the same energy level with less >current but higher inductance DOES increase. For example when we raise L 4 >times more we do indeed need 2 times less current but 2 times more time to >build up this current. The same is true if we wanted to extract the energy >from the coil, we could draw less current but for a longer time. t=3DL/R > >>Thus if you write this formula the other way around it shows you: >>I=3D (2W/L)^(1/2) =20 >>So if you raise L from 100 Henry to 10.000 Henry you will only need >>an end current of 0.01 Amperes =3D 10 mA after the 50 msec time period=20 >>to reach the SAME STORED magnetic energy inside the COIL L ! >>(STILL 0.5 Ws !)=20 > >But the time required for the current to reach the 0.01A level will >increase to 500msec. It will not stay at 50msec Okay the current inside the coil is now only at 4.877 mA after 50 msec (the formular to calculate it is: i=3D (Battery Voltage V / DC coil resistance R ) x [1-e^-(t/tau)] so W=3D0.5LI^2=3D0.5 x 10000 H x (4.877ma)^2=3D0.1189 Ws is less,=20 but the magnetic alligned spins inside the ferrite ADD the magnetic energy now stored inside aircore coil PLUS ferrite rod. So the stored magnetic energy is not just the energy stored in the aircore coil L, but also inside the ferrite rod ! And that adds much more due to its high permeabilty factor of=20 1000 or more ! >What about Scott's Little objection that the volume V of the coil's >magnetic field B has now decreased making the energy of the coil equal to >0.5*B^2*V. Does the B get compressed by the flux concentrating property >of the ferrite enough to compensate for the shrinking V ? I guess, there must be something around this line.... Again, you have now after 50 msec a MAGNETIC energy stored inside coil L PLUS a huge MAGNETIC energy stored in the Ferrite Rod. ALso the rod has increased kinetic energy ! Wait, til I present a differential equatation that will make things clearer ! One really has to include the ferrite rod=B4s spin allignment or a permanent magnet inside this equatation ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 14:08:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA04917; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:22:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:22:18 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:24:45 +0100 Message-Id: <199701172124.WAA16573@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: bshannon@tiac.net From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au, epitaxy@localaccess.com Resent-Message-ID: <"0s9Qk1.0.eC1.7s-to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1494 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >If your going to teach the readers magnetics, get it right. =20 > >If you want to jump on the Newman bandwagon that's fine. But if you are >going to resort to pathological science to support your theory, you will >be called on it. =20 > >I think pathological science is a harsh, but fair term here, as you had >clearly shown that you understood the true behavior in your earlier >posts. Well I agree, Bob, Greg should show it in an easy example, how to use his DNMEC TO GET something real out of it. I also did no get any comments from him about my new Newman principle proposals, but he is probably to busy right now... Well, Greg, you are probably too busy right now to respond, but if you have a free minute, just let us know... This should be no critics about your ideas, but just try to make it more clear what you mean.... All this flux summing for distortion inside ferrite or inside air is hard to grasp...if you can=B4t do expirimentations. Regards, Stefan. > > > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 14:18:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA05015; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:22:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:22:52 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:25:13 +0100 Message-Id: <199701172125.WAA16577@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: bshannon@tiac.net From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au, epitaxy@localaccess.com Resent-Message-ID: <"59FYF3.0.2E1.ds-to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1495 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> >>L=100 Henry >> >>R=10.000,00 Ohm = 10 K Ohms >> >>Time constant TAU=L/R=10 msec= 0.01 sec >> >>Battery voltage: 1000 Volts DC > >Ok, got that at 10K ohms. I saw the "." used as a "," in the inductance >value later in the posting. Thanks for clearing this up Stefan. Okay ! >> >>This is very important ! To store the SAME AMOUNT of ENERGY inside the COIL >> >>you can just use a much higher inductance L and USE LESS INPUT ENERGY via >> >>the current I !!!! (Assuming the Time constant TAU does not change !) >> > >> >But the time required to pump the coil to the same energy level with less >> >current but higher inductance DOES increase. For example when we raise L 4 >> >times more we do indeed need 2 times less current but 2 times more time to >> >build up this current. >> >> This is the KEY information ! As usual formular says, Epitaxy is right here ! >> You would need longer time to build up the magnetic field ! > >This also means that energy input to the coil is proportional to the >energy stored in the coil. Okay the current inside the coil is now only at 4.877 mA after 50 msec (the formular to calculate it is: i= (Battery Voltage V / DC coil resistance R ) x [1-e^-(t/tau)] so W=0.5LI^2=0.5 x 10000 H x (4.877ma)^2=0.1189 Ws is less, but the magnetic alligned spins inside the ferrite ADD the magnetic energy now stored inside aircore coil PLUS ferrite rod. So the stored magnetic energy is not just the energy stored in the aircore coil L, but also inside the ferrite ! And that adds much more due to its high permeabilty factor of 1000 or more ! > >> But it seems this is not true in such a dynamic Nonlinear system ! >> As the Coil is just an aircore coil at the beginning t=0 sec. The applied >> voltage of 1000 Volts DC is directly applied at the inductance L >> and the ohmic resistance voltage is ZERO Volts at this moment ! > >The voltage across the inductor L is 1,000 volts. At t=0, current is >zero, Right ! >which is equivielent to an open circuit, with 'E-applied' across >the open element. A capacitor would behave as you state, but not an >inductor. > Wrong ! Exactly the opposite occurs ! At t=0 sec the FULL Voltage is accross the inductor L and zero Volts accross the ohmic resistor R ! The formular for the coil inductance voltage Vl is: Vl= Vbattery x e^-t/tau ! If we choose t=0 then e^0=1 so Vl becomes Vbattery ! >> Well, yes, normal formular predicts that, but for the formular to be true >> you have to have a STATIC device and >> NO MOVING CHANGING DYNAMIC NONLINEAR SYSTEM ! > >To correctly calculate this, you need to integrate the changing current >and inductance working against that current over time. If the core is >in uniform motion, the system is still linear, although a bit more >complex than the calculations above show. I will try in the next days to present a differential equatation, which includes the moving ferrite rod into the coil, so it will show, what is going on there. Stay tuned. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 14:47:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA15099; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:06:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:06:07 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 17:05:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970117170524_101885655@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"_WfKS3.0.ph3.DV_to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1497 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Now what this could mean is this, large masses of matter do not generate gravity, instead it is the liquid like nature of gravity's source that surrounds the mass and would like to fill the space occupied by the mass that actually generates the gravity force with force line starting from space and traveling toward the center of any mass.>>>> Einstein's General Relativity states that massive objects bend space-time in it's area of space. The more gravity, the more curvature. >>>Could we not learn how to create ripples or waves in this vast medium to travel through space at unimaginable speeds. I think we will someday. You never know something could already be doing just that. If I where a being somewhere out in space and wanted to find other intelligent beings. I would base my communications on whatever I though was the most abundant type of energy around the universe. Could it be gravity waves???>>> To create gravity waves, just compress and decompress a massive body. This creates gravity waves. In fact, Black Holes DO create gravity waves as they shrink when they are formed. They are so small, though, that we have not been able to detect them. As for sending gravity waves for communication....they diminish with distance just like elecromagnetic energy (Radio waves), which is much easier to produce, and the gravity waves only move at the speed of light. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 15:04:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA19064; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:24:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:24:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32DFFA2F.1686@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:46:15 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity References: <3.0.32.19970115173935.0098018c@mail.localaccess.com> <32DDB073.BDF@mail.enternet.com.au> <32DE502C.2B2D@tiac.net> <32DEC83D.48A7@mail.enternet.com.au> <32DF5FCD.7D72@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t5DE93.0.Df4.Um_to"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1498 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > Hi Bob, > > > > 9) The result is that the ferromagnetic material will produce a B field > > which ACTS AS IF the H magnetizing fields were summed. > > Because the flux will exit the material rather than suffer destructive > interference (flux summing) there will be regions that have no > magnetization. > > While this might appear similar to the flux having summed, it is s > totally different thing. Is this not Apples and Oranges? Where did I say that flux is destroyed? Where did I say that less flux will return to the magnet than left it? I said that the flux lines are distorted. You distort my words. Please read then reread my posts. I give you that courtesy. Unlike some, I have only presented ideas and suggestions backed up by example and suggested experiments. To those experiments, I have provided an explanation in as simple as possible terms so as to NOT confuse or try to sell snake oil. The point in my summing examples has been to try to show what happens to the flux in the air gap of a magnetic circuit containing a constant magnet, a variable direction magnet, an air gap and ferromagnetic "wire" connecting it all together. > > I stand by my comments. Magnetics is not easy to understand and many > > experimenters, including me, have spent many wasted hours trying to > > understand what the heck is going on. > > > > I hope this helps to somewhat explain my earlier postings. > > Not at all Greg. Lecturing on basic magnetics does not resolve the > following direct conflict from your posts: Boring lecture to you, new stuff to some. > >From your email of 04 Jan 1997, in response to my posting "Re: Flux > switching devices." of 2 Jan 1997, which described the behavior where > flux will exit ferrite or other magnetic material rather than undergo > "flux summing" : > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > Enclosed are Quick Field files to simulate your example. After you > > download and unzip the program, put the files in the example directory. > > You can alter the 2 coil strengths by editing the LibData. Like you, > > I have verified the data in reality. > > So here we are saying that the flux will not remain confined to the > magnetic material when presented with opposing flux. The flux undergoes > distortion, but does not sum. The two sources are both pumping the same but opposite flux and as a result the two opposing H fields cause almost NO domain alignment, the toroid's permeability is close to 1 (Air) and it acts as if it were air and not there. > Then on 14 Jan 1997 you posted exactly the opposite: > > > Hi Bob, > > > > Part of the answer to DNMEC is to understand that opposing fluxes > > when forced to flow within the confines of a ferrite flux path > > will not cause flux distortion (They can't easily escape from the > > good conduction path of the ferrite). They just sum their differences > > and reduce overall flux density flowing in the conduction path. In a normal magnetic circuit with an air gap, most of the flux is in the gap. There is a big difference here from the toriod example. If we introduce an opposing flux which is a small % of the total flux (Via a coil) into the circuit, the flux in the gap reduces. This is what is important. Do you agree or not. I agree with you that the circuit will become more leaky because of the opposing flux, but the point of these test is to show that what happens in the air gap. > > When opposing fluxes mix in an air gap, flux distortion occurs and it > > is the flux distortion that we must learn to use if we wish to move > > toward Over Unity in moving magnetic systems. > > The phrase "They can't easily escape from the good conduction path of > the ferrite" is totally wrong, and directly contradicts your post of Jan > 04. Apples and Oranges again. > This is not apples and oranges Greg. It is. It is what happens to flux in the gap that I am working on. Your agenda? > The statement "They just sum their differences and reduce overall flux > density flowing in the conduction path" is also wrong, because the > conduction path is no longer limited to the ferrite as you simulated, as > shown in your post of Jan 04. It is ONLY the air gap and it ability the attract an approaching ferrite that is of interest. I have agreeded that the circuit will become more leaky but flux leakage is NOT what I am discussing. > You are presenting yourself as understanding magnetics quite well, and > clearly you do have a good grasp of the subject. But your descriptions > of actual phenomena has changed to support your theory of DNMEC, and you > are giving readers clearly false information to support your theory. > > Here's the 'hook': > > > Neither the rod / coil or the two magnet test is attempting to > > demonstrate over unity. Only the first two steps in understanding > > why flux gate devices work as they do and soon why my future suggestions > > may provide a path to a flux gate generator which has a chance at > > providing Over Unity. > > > > Stay tuned. > > So you have presented yourself as having a degree of understanding of > the subject, and worked to raise the overall level of understanding. > > Then you present yourself as being a source for suggestions which may > provide a path to over unity devices with your theory of DNMEC, but in > doing so you directly contradicted your earlier posting which also > mentioned having verified the data in reality. (flux does not remain in > the ferrite under opposition) > > When this contradiction is pointed out, your response is to post a basic > text on magnetics, as if this is not already understood. After > demonstrating your knowledge on the subject, you dismiss this direct > contradiction as a matter of apples and oranges. I have just addressed that. > If your going to teach the readers magnetics, get it right. >From the point of view of air gap dynamics, I have. > If you want to jump on the Newman bandwagon that's fine. But if you are > going to resort to pathological science to support your theory, you will > be called on it. By who? What is your agenda Bob? I stated at the beginning my intentions and will repeat them here and now. Flux gate devices are not well understood. Many people repeat the same mistakes. While ideas are good, hopes can be dashed when your pet project doesn't work. If we can lift the general understanding of coils, magnets and ferromagnetic circuits then some of the haze may lift and we may be able to see further and find the goal we all seek. In my 5-6 years of building magnetic systems, I have found and noted several anomalies which I have recently had the time to revisit. They form the basic of my first two suggested experiments. > I think pathological science is a harsh, but fair term here, as you had > clearly shown that you understood the true behavior in your earlier > posts. Hi Bob, Thanks for the public reply, sorry I didn't reply to the private (Off list) copy of this post (which you sent to me yesterday) quick enough for you. Seems like you couldn't wait for my answers and had to get into print. Why did you do that? I try very hard to respect you and your knowledge. We ALL view things from a different point of view and as I said earlier, my point of view has always been the air gap. I think yours is different, so we see and talk about Apples and Oranges. Slow down Bob, I am not out to rip anyone off or to take away your guru crown. I would suggest you try to see the whole picture that someone is trying to paint before you leap. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 19:13:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA13014; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:35:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:35:38 -0800 Message-ID: <32E001A4.16BD@triode.net.au> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 14:48:04 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Magnistor testing References: <970113112713_440640539@emout02.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zC7NB1.0.AB3.uR3uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1499 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > I have made new measures according you request above, you have in the > attached document the scope signal on L1 with 100 ohms load, without magnet ( > it is the latest picture at the end of this document). > > Please give me your comments and feed-back about my Magnistor 1.0 device. Jean-louis, Thanks for redoing the no-magnet-under-load condition. You appear to be getting quite a bit of leakage flux from the input coil to the o/p coil. I would work at reducing this leakage to a minimum for best effect. For instance, can the input coil be moved further away from the o/p coil? A possible way to test for increase in input power without using an accurate power meter is to design a class B operational amplifier based oscilator to drive the input coils. Then all you have to do is measure the change in current (assuming contant supply voltage) from the power supply to the op. amp. to determine whether any extra energy is being input when adding the magnet under load. Some food for thought, Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 19:26:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA13091; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:35:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:35:57 -0800 Message-ID: <32E140BD.3934@triode.net.au> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:29:33 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: News Flash! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FDGV2.0.SC3.AS3uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1500 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NEWS FLASH! SUPERCONDUCTOR MAGNET DESTROYED BY FLYING ANVIL! (1/4/96) AAP: The University of WoyWoy proudly unvieled their latest superconducting electromagnet today claiming a new world record for the strongest magnetic field. Project scientist, Dr Axel Harpbane, explained, "we create this very intense magnetic field by dumping one bilion joules of electric charge from this especially designed capacitor bank into an electromagnet made of superconducting wire cooled to almost 0 degrees Kelvin and then instantly shorting out the electromagnet coil just as the capacitor bank empties. The resultant magnetic field is so strong that we have had to design this laboratory to be completely free of all magnetic materials and totally shielded to the outside world by layers of reinforced magnetic shielding material we bought at a special discount price from the Muller Dynamo Co in the USA". Unfortunately, just as the supermagnet was being demonstrated to press, a workman, thinking he was entering the mechanical workshop, walked into the lab carrying an anvil which immediately lept out of his hands and hurtled towards the electromagnet. The lab technician, seeing this, immediately threw the main switch to dump all of the circulating current flowing in the superconducting magnet back into the capacitor bank again just as the anvil approached the supermagnet. Unfortunately, the anvil had gained enormous momentum due to the pull of the intense magnetic field and continued on totally destroying the magnetic apparatus, tearing a massive hole in the lab wall, and finally landing in the middle of the latest very expensive gravity-wave detection apparatus being demonstrated to VIPs 30 metres down the corridor! A recent graduate science reporter in the press core, commented how impressed she was that the previously existing supermagnet had caused the anvil to perform so much work. Her question for Dr Harpbane was not so much "will you be able to repair the damage and build another electromagnet before the head scientist returns from his holidays", but rather more curiously, "How much energy is now stored in the capacitor bank?" The head of the physics department, Professor Wikenhat, was unavailable for comment. The workman was successfully treated for superficial injury and shock at the local casualty ward and subsequently sacked. The female reporter was reassigned to the food critique column. ED NOTE: The whole affair was finally hushed over using carefully worded 'chicken feeding' press statements that downplayed the financial loss to the university while at the same time emphasising the importance of the university's free scientific research programs to the community. -END- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 21:07:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA03753; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:30:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:30:34 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:30:41 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32e83415.18204096@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701170349.TAA05237@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199701170349.TAA05237@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OiVPL1.0.Uw.e75uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1503 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:49:50 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: [snip] >gives the wire capacatance, which self tunes the circuit. Test were shown >that proved the stored energy in the winding of a bi-fillar winding has >fourteen hundred percent more stored energy than a conventional winding. If >I understand this correctly, it would mean that you could get the same back >emf with fourteen hundred percent less windings. If you are interested, I >can post the results of the test and also the construction of the coils >which can be duplicated in a couple of hours. [snip] Yes Wesly, please post the results of the test! I was always under the impression that as a bifilar wound coil had no inductance, it would store no energy at all. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 21:07:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA03699; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:30:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:30:24 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newman and Testatika principles=equals ! Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:30:39 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32e63183.17545908@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701171508.QAA14780@mail.bbtt.com> In-Reply-To: <199701171508.QAA14780@mail.bbtt.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_ldjr2.0.hv.U75uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1502 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:08:04 +0100, Stefan Hartmann wrote: [snip] >How do I get a capacitor, which can change over time from >say: 500 mikro Farad to 10000 mikro Farad ? > [snip] Check the temperature dependence of cheap electrolytic capacitors. You should get some change, but not as much as you want. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 22:41:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA29270; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:52:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:52:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:51:16 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701180551.XAA07837@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"N1sAw2.0.m87.BK6uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1504 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > I was about to say let's assume (well this whole thing is an >assumption). All space through out the universe contains the ocean that >generates gravity. Could we not learn how to create ripples or waves in >this vast medium to travel through space at unimaginable speeds. I think we >will someday. You never know something could already be doing just that. If >I where a being somewhere out in space and wanted to find other intelligent >beings. I would base my communications on whatever I though was the most >abundant type of energy around the universe. Could it be gravity waves??? > > I think that knowing the above, one should be ably to design and build >a receiver capable of receiving variations of the incoming gravity forces. > >What do you think, am I totally nuts or what?? > > Greg Hodowanec designed such a device. I have built a couple of them. I think the circuit is on Bill B's homepage. Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 17 22:48:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA07388; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:12:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:12:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32E04E8C.505E@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:46:12 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News Flash! References: <32E140BD.3934@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MLVHC2.0.Kp1.Hd6uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1505 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Maxwell wrote: > > NEWS FLASH! SUPERCONDUCTOR MAGNET DESTROYED BY FLYING ANVIL! (1/4/96) > > rather more curiously, "How much energy is now stored in the capacitor > bank?" > How much energy is lost from a Magnet attracting a ferrite rod? Doesn't matter if the rod looses all the kinetic energy when it hits the rod. While it is accelerating, its kinetic energy is growing. E=1/2MV^2. The energy increase is real. What lost energy to accelerate the rod? The Magnet? Don't be silly, we ALL know magnets can't do work! --- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 00:25:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA22715; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:35:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:35:06 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:56:29 +1100 Message-Id: <199701180756.SAA01270@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Robert Adams motor/generator Resent-Message-ID: <"g7Oi-3.0.rY5.eq7uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1506 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:58 AM 16/01/97 +0400, you wrote: >Hi everybody, > >Does anyone been experimenting with a R.Adams motor/generator >(Docs sold/distributed by Nexus).The inventors looks to be out of reach and >its said coassocit : Mr Bruce Cathie site looks to be closed... >I would be interested to exchange testing datas or ideas. > >FRANCK ROUSSEL >http://www.infoemirates.com/otecnor >otecnor@emirates.net.ae >Tel: -- 971 4 341 335 >Fax: -- 971 4 341 271 >Po box 4613 Dubai >United Arab Emirates >Time: GMT + 4 > >R Adams tends to stay out of the limelight may I suggest you send your request to Nexus Australia as the editor has close contacts with the inventor Geoff > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 00:36:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA24322; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:47:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:47:17 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 01:01:14 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: W.Lambertson? Lines: 7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KwBoa2.0.wx5.308uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1507 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Inventor Wingate Lambertson worked on his overunity system several years ago. Anybody know a result of his attempts to patent and introduce his real o.u. technology? --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 01:22:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA26977; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:13:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 00:13:13 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 11:11:30 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: longitudinal waves, gravity Lines: 15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dG4m1.0.Qb6.NO8uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1508 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote Re: Idea about gravity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:33:52 -0900 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Resent-Message-ID: <"yMGb_3.0.NI7.Mh8uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1509 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 7:30 PM 1/17/97, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: [snip] >Yes Wesly, please post the results of the test! I was always under the >impression that as a bifilar wound coil had no inductance, it would store >no energy at all. > > >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk They must have some small inductance, but just not coupled to the core due to voltage cancellation. True? Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 04:10:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA16242; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 03:29:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 03:29:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32E0B23D.10BF@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:51:33 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: News Flash # 2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"mHzVT3.0.Dz3.vFBuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1510 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ****************** NEWS FLASH ******************** Today a deep space crew found the remains of the USS Enterprise Ncc 1701D. Even though the vessel had suffered massive structural damage, the crew found the ship's log of Captain Jean-Luc Picard. His last words before the ships computer was crushed to the size of a walnut was : "We are being attracted toward a massive super conducting ring which has just appeared in our path. Long range scans have found what appears to be an old Anvil (20th century) in the centre of the massive coil. The ship's engineer has stated that the current flowing in the ring is beyond the power of the ship's 1024 bit computer to calculate. The ship's engines are not able to provide enough reverse thrust to stop the ship's acceleration toward the ring. We are now at an acceleration of 500 g's and increasing. Our artificial gravity will fail at 600 g's and the ships hull is starting to fail. I can't understand or accept what is about to happen to my crew and the ship as my physics professor at Star Fleet Academy told me over and over again that magnets can't do any REAL work. It is cold comfort to me that as the crushed remains of the ship passes through the core of the ring at an estimated acceleration of 100,000 g's, we will start to decelerate and finally when we reach the same distance as we started, we will have slowed to our normal cruising speed and an outside observer will be heard say, "See the magnet didn't do any real work, as the Enterprise has not really gained any real energy". Picard out." Do you really believe that? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 05:16:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA22388; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:35:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:35:59 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:32:31 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701181232.NAA26616@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"RWdHn1.0.ET5.9ECuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1511 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Adam Grossman wrote: >Einstein's General Relativity states that massive objects bend space-time in >it's area of space. The more gravity, the more curvature. > True, but Einstein's special relativity is not necessarily gospel. There are others that disagree, and have modeled the concept that gravity is indeed induced by the ether (seen as a type of 'liquid'). Some see the induction of gravity as a shielding effect, i.e. radiative pressure from all directions, except the one that is covered by a second object. Some see it as an actual flow of the medium, an inflow of this ether 'substance' into matter, that is faster the bigger the mass concerned. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 05:58:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA24077; Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:58:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 12:58:52 -0800 Message-ID: <32DE502C.2B2D@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 15:58:36 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity References: <3.0.32.19970115173935.0098018c@mail.localaccess.com> <32DDB073.BDF@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6NDhF1.0.4u5.8Qfto"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1473 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Hi Epitaxy, > > Try this. > > Another demo of flux summing : > > Test 1 : > > FFSNFF FFNSFF (almost no repelling forces) > > Test 2 : > > FFSN NSFF (Good repelling forces) > > Understand why? How does this experiment demonstrate flux summing? In test 1, is it not the case that flux leaves the side of the ferrite prior to the gap? (this being a path of lesser resistance due to the opposing flux of the other magnet) In this case, the total flux is equal in test 1 and test 2, but the geometery is quite different, and there is indeed less flux in the gap of test 1, and therefore we see less repulsion. But this is not flux summing! The net flux over the whole system is equal in test 1 and test 2. There is no flux summing in either case, nor any vector flux summing between magnetic macropoles in reality. If we look at test 1 and test 2, we see that no flux was 'lost' by the opposition of flux in the gap between the two magnet and ferrite assemblies. The flux simply finds another path (through free space back to the other pole) outside the ferrite. Thie behavior is not a function of the material in which we attempt to oppose the flux. The same effect happens between magnet poles in air or in ferrite. Epitaxy asked: > > Don't opposite poles cancel > > each other ? > > Opposite fluxes try to cancel (denends on in what they flow). Opposite > poles are attracted to each other and attract flux from each other. Greg, This is in direct conflict with your earlier posts and also with direct experimental evidence which you supported. I'm not looking for a flame war, but would you please address this issue? What evidence exists to support your recent claims that "opposite fluxes try to cancel". How does this statement fit with your earlier posts which show exactly the opposite of this is true? How can you reconsile the claims of flux cancelation (and it's role in DNMEC) with the experimental evidence that flux does not cancel as described, which you claimed to have verified experimentally in an earlier posting? Can you back up your claims of flux summing with experimental data? Epitaxy, No, opposing fux DOES NOT cancel. Please refer to my earlier email where I mentioned Missner (sp?) levitation, which is the result of opposed flux. If flux cancelation did work as Greg describes in his later posts, magnets would not levitate over a superconductor. If you like, I will be glad to ship you a device which prooves my case, at my expense, along with the documentation needed to show that Greg's claims of flux summing are unsupportable in the face of experimental evidence. To all, If we want to actually perform vector superposition of magnetic flux, "there is a way", but it's not shown in any of Greg's posts that I have seen so far. The B field component of an EM wave in free space will undergo vector superposition when waves of opposite phase are mixed. Note that this is not a static case as in Greg's tests. Also, note that the E field is equally suppressed in this case. Persons familiar with scalar electromagnetics will recognise this as a form of scalar translation. Also, if a bifilar coil is wound, and each conductor is driven with equal and opposite currents, there will be flux opposition and distortion of the flux around each opposed conductor, but the total flux in the system is conserved. Given AC current through the two conductors, we will see something a bit different. This assumes that the two conductors have high mutual inductance, and that the combination of the two coils forms a net non-inductor. Again, persons familiar with scalar electromagnetics will recognise another form of scalar translation. The vector superposition in these cases is quite different than the tests Greg describes. Actual vector superposition of magnetic flux in and of itself does not liberate energy stored in atomic matter. It does not decelerate orbital electrons either. The result is the liberation of the free A field, or magnetic vector potential. Interested readers might wish to refer to the article in Scientific American on the subject of "Quantum Interferance and the Aharnov-Bohm effect", which I beleive appears in the May 1995 issue. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 06:25:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA25882; Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:51:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:51:38 -0800 Message-ID: <32E04769.13DF@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 14:15:45 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity References: <199701162129.WAA11130@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Spzk_2.0.KK6.8Z4uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1501 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > Try to teach us an example, that brings in new > possibilities to use it for energy production ! :) Working on the Gifs now. > What do you think of my proposals to enhance Newman devices ? > > Do you also agree, using a very BIG ferrite rod, which is > accelerated into a Newman coil(many windings, high ohmic resistance) > will have a huge induction impulse, when the coil circuit is opened, > when the rod is in the middle of the coil ? No. > (due to all the new aligned atomic spins in the rod, which induce > a huge induction impulse back into the coil ???) As the coil's energy will attempt to stay constant, opening the coil will only release the constant energy that is there. The moving ferrite will not give the coil more energy. It will actually increase the time it takes for the field to fall (due to the time it takes for the domains to unalign) and will increase back drag between the ferrite and the magnetic rotor. The IMPORTANT effect is the EMF generated by the coil as the rod approaches. If we could produce a bigger coil EMF than the power supply EMF, then current would flow into the power source. If our power source were rechargeable batteries, then we could force current into the battery and charge it. However, by using a ferrite with it's soft domains, all that we can achieve is for the current to drop. Wonder what would happen if we used a ferrite with stiff domain alignment (a magnet)? Maybe as the magnet approached, we would find something new. Not a short noisy spike as the coil opens, but a wide pulse of energy flowing from the coil to the battery. Remember the picture of the reverse current pulse from a Newman motor you sent me. This was not a spike (quick, short energy discharge) but a wide, long current pulse of considerable current and power. Remember, you even did some calcs on the energy in the pulse. That pulse was the result of current flow then the coil was attached to the battery, not as the coil opened. That pulse was the result of the magnet moving through the coil and NOT the coil opening. Stephan, opening the coil only reduces the back drag. Sure the coil's field collapses and we loose the energy, but we gain an elimination of back drag. If we use less energy to reestablish the field than we get from the magnet's passage, then this is where the over unity effect may take place. I know this is getting into Newman's motor, but its where this thread will take us. > I will draw it up as an example and post it soon, what I mean. Look forward to it. > Regards, Stefan. Hi Stephan, I am preparing a few Gifs for a magnet / coil demo to take us to the next step. I believe things should start to fall into place then. Until then, think of what will happen as a magnet is drawn to a coil I.E. ... SmagnetN ScoilN and the magnet has 10 times the field strength as the coil. As the magnet approaches, the coil field will attempt to go up and coil current will drop. When the magnet is close enough so that its field (induced in the coil) equals the coils original field, current flow from the source will stop as it is no longer needed. As the magnet gets closer and the coil flux increases still further, the coil's EMF will exceed the power supply's and current will flow from the coil to the power supply. The coil will still be working hard to keep the flux density and flux direction flowing through it constant. Think about two examples. Assume coil flux is magnet flux 0 + 100 coil = 100 coil. 1) Coil flux increases by 50%, so coil current go to 50%. (Like my rod / coil experiment). Magnet Coil Result 50 + 100 = 150 at 50% current 50 + 50 = 100 2) Coil flux increases by 100%, so coil current will go to 0. The coils current flow generated flux is not needed as the flux is coming from somewhere else. Magnet Coil Result 100 + 100 = 200 at 0% current 100 + 0 = 100 3) Coil flux increases by 200%, so coil current goes to -100% in an attempt to hold coil flux constant. Magnet Coil Result 200 + 100 = 300 at -100% current 200 +-100 = 100 4) Coil flux increases by 1000%, so coil current goes to -900% in an attempt to hold coil flux constant. Magnet Coil Result 1000 + 100 = 1100 at -900% current 1000 +-900 = 100 This may be difficult to see or my writing may not be clear enough. The Gifs should be ready in a day or so. Comments so far? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 06:32:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA30281; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 05:46:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 05:46:16 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:41:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970118084100_1076485070@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"QI91r1.0.CO7.dFDuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1512 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>True, but Einstein's special relativity is not necessarily gospel. There are others that disagree, and have modeled the concept that gravity is indeed induced by the ether (seen as a type of 'liquid'). Some see the induction of gravity as a shielding effect, i.e. radiative pressure from all directions, except the one that is covered by a second object. Some see it as an actual flow of the medium, an inflow of this ether 'substance' into matter, that is faster the bigger the mass concerned.>>>> Um...we are not talking about special relativity, even thought SR HAS been proven by high speed airplanes (Time indead DOES slow down the faster you get, since this is the case that means mass does increase as well, since it's all related. As For GENERAL relativity, it's effects have been proven as well. High flying aircraft have felt the increase in the rate of time, and they have observed the special effects it has on light during a solar eclipse. It also explains the the strange orbit of Mercury....I think those count as proof for me, especially since no evidence to the contrary has been observed. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 06:48:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA30933; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 05:52:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 05:52:22 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:46:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970118084648_1992710101@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News Flash! Resent-Message-ID: <"-hrWe.0.dY7.5LDuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1513 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Unfortunately, the anvil had gained enormous momentum due to the pull of the intense magnetic field and continued on totally destroying the magnetic apparatus, tearing a massive hole in the lab wall, and finally landing in the middle of the latest very expensive gravity-wave detection apparatus being demonstrated to VIPs 30 metres down the corridor!>>> If it was THAT strong, couldn't it rip the iron out of your blood stream? Now THAT wouldn't be good! Also...gravity-wave detectors are HUGE underground tanks of liguid, like water. How can it be In a corridor? First, it wou;dn't fit at all, and second you would need it to be underground! Did you just make this story up? -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 06:52:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA31516; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 05:56:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 05:56:27 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:51:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970118085129_1377911900@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: longitudinal waves, gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"F05al1.0.Jg7.-ODuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1514 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>There are two types of waves: longitudinal waves are waves of density of energy. It is possible to create it by means of electric energy also. Remember similarity of law for Coulomb interaction and for gravity.>>> Yes, but you would need so much energy that you would never use it to send signals, you would just use the energy in the form of EM radiation. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 07:48:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA06417; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:49:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 06:49:16 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:43:17 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701181443.IAA10878@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News Flash! Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"cbobG3.0.cZ1.QAEuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1515 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>>>Unfortunately, the anvil had gained enormous momentum due to the pull of >If it was THAT strong, couldn't it rip the iron out of your blood stream? Now >THAT wouldn't be good! Also...gravity-wave detectors are HUGE underground >tanks of liguid, like water. How can it be In a corridor? First, it wou;dn't >fit at all, and second you would need it to be underground! Did you just make >this story up? >-Adam Grossman > > Some iron compounds are non-magnetic (cf. stainless steel). And who said a magnet couldn't do work? One just washed my windows. (Since we're in a silly mood these days! :-) (nudge nudge ... that story WAS a joke!) Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 08:26:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA11176; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 07:25:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 07:25:57 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:23:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199701181523.QAA18827@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Second Test to DNMEC Over Unity Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, epitaxy@localaccess.com Resent-Message-ID: <"raLj12.0.zi2.niEuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1516 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Stefan Hartmann wrote: >>=20 >> Try to teach us an example, that brings in new >> possibilities to use it for energy production ! :) >=20 >Working on the Gifs now. Okay, great ! > >> What do you think of my proposals to enhance Newman devices ? >>=20 >> Do you also agree, using a very BIG ferrite rod, which is >> accelerated into a Newman coil(many windings, high ohmic resistance) >> will have a huge induction impulse, when the coil circuit is opened, >> when the rod is in the middle of the coil ? > >No. Hmm, I still believe that ! > >> (due to all the new aligned atomic spins in the rod, which induce >> a huge induction impulse back into the coil ???) > >As the coil's energy will attempt to stay constant, opening the coil >will only release the constant energy that is there. The moving >ferrite will not give the coil more energy. It will actually increase >the time it takes for the field to fall (due to the time it takes for >the domains to unalign)=20 Yes, and this will longen the induction pulse and produce the overunity energy ! >and will increase back drag between the ferrite >and the magnetic rotor. You have to open the coil shortly before the rod is completely inside the coil, so the decreasing magnet field will still accelerate it further into the coil ! When the rod is totally inside the coil, the coil field must be gone, so the rod can fly on with accelerated speed ! At this time the coil circuit stays open ! >The IMPORTANT effect is the EMF generated by the coil as the rod >approaches. If we could produce a bigger coil EMF than the power >supply EMF, then current would flow into the power source. If >our power source were rechargeable batteries, then we could force >current into the battery and charge it. But the rod or a PM will not move fast enough to generate enough EMF to generate negative current ! Only if you additionally push it inside the coil, as the gravity does in the reciprocating Newman device (when it is an upside down implementation ) ! > >However, by using a ferrite with it's soft domains, all that we can >achieve is for the current to drop. Wonder what would happen if we >used a ferrite with stiff domain alignment (a magnet)? Maybe as the >magnet approached, we would find something new. Not a short noisy >spike as the coil opens, but a wide pulse of energy flowing from >the coil to the battery. Remember the picture of the reverse >current pulse from a Newman motor you sent me. This was not a spike >(quick, short energy discharge) but a wide, long current pulse of >considerable current and power. Remember, you even did some calcs >on the energy in the pulse. That pulse was the result of current >flow then the coil was attached to the battery, not as the coil >opened. =20 No, No NO ! That you have got wrong ! It was indeed the pulse, when the coil circuit opened !!!! The mechnical commutator of this Newman=B4s first machine had gaps, so it was a PULSED DC input !!! This is very importnat to understand ! The negative pulses you saw on these pics were just the negative current spikes, when the coil circuit OPENED !!!! So indeed the moving PM does indeed induce a HUGE induction energy pulse back to the battery via the spark at the mechanical commutator ! The spark at the commutator still connects the battery at this time with the coil as the circuit opens !!!! That is very important to understand ! Thus these big negative energy pulse back to the battery ! >That pulse was the result of the magnet moving through >the coil and NOT the coil opening. Wrong ! really think about it again ! The magnet never could for itself induce such a huge impuls ! I know, how the commutator is designed ! I saw it in 1987, when I visited Newman=B4s lab down in Lucedale ! The big pulse just only occurs, when the coil circuit is opened ! >Stephan, opening the coil only reduces the back drag. Sure the >coil's field collapses and we loose the energy, but we gain an >elimination of back drag. If we use less energy to reestablish >the field than we get from the magnet's passage, then this is where >the over unity effect may take place. Yes, that could also be, but then we have to use the kinetic energy the PM was accelerated to... But the real output we will only get, when we open the coil circuit at the right time ( shortly before the PM is totally inside the coil, supposing the coil and the PM have the same length !) > >I know this is getting into Newman's motor, but its where this thread >will take us. It will definately take us there, which is good, cause I finally want to know after all those years of Newman research, how this thing works ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 10:28:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA28471; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:31:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:31:23 -0800 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 09:26:17 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: W.Lambertson? Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"rwnWv2.0.kv6.TYGuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1517 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Alexander; You wrote; >Inventor Wingate Lambertson worked on his overunity system several years >ago. Anybody know a result of his attempts to patent and introduce his >real o.u. technology? > >--- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 Wingate was at my house for a visit about three years ago. He is getting on in years. Has a book which is not yet published, I had a look at it. Either it was over my head or didn't make sense. If I remember correctly , he talked about gravitrons of various rotation. I personally think he has it all wrong. His ego is in the way and he lacks any sense of practicality in my opinion. I then visited his house and saw a high efficiency electric motor he had built. Not for over unity, just higher efficiency. I didn't have the heart to tell him there are already enough electric motors in the world. He showed me the video of the Hutchison effect. Actually I have spent time with Johnny too, he just lives up the street. I have seen Johnnies collection of letters and photos. Some very real interest in him about 15 years ago from the DOD and military types. Write back if you want to know the secret of Johnies success (of lack of it) but send me your personal e-mail. Byrun. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 11:03:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA05326; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:16:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:16:14 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 17:43:12 +0100 Message-Id: <199701181643.RAA19041@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Gwatson´s test to DNMEC Over Unity ?? Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, epitaxy@localaccess.com Resent-Message-ID: <"6s9TQ1.0.aG1.-BHuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1518 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi Stefan, > >I am preparing a few Gifs for a magnet / coil demo to take us to >the next step. Okay ! >I believe things should start to fall into place then. I hope so ! :) >Until then, think of what will happen as a magnet is drawn to >a coil I.E. ... SmagnetN ScoilN and the magnet has 10 times the >field strength as the coil. As the magnet approaches, the coil >field will attempt to go up and coil current will drop. When >the magnet is close enough so that its field (induced in the coil) >equals the coils original field, current flow from the source will=20 >stop as it is no longer needed. =20 > >As the magnet gets closer and the coil flux increases still >further, the coil's EMF will exceed the power supply's and current >will flow from the coil to the power supply. The coil will still >be working hard to keep the flux density and flux direction flowing=20 >through it constant. This will only happen, when the moving PM will have enough stored kinetic energy so that its moving mass can be deaccelerated and as this deacceleration takes place, it induces enough back current into= the rechargeable battery (or just use a charged capacitor to power it !) The 10 times smaller field of the coil would otherwise only pull it in 10= times less stronger, so you will get NO negative input current into the coil ! Rethink that again ! It also really depends, if the PM already moved or not ! I guess, here you are at the wrong treck ! Better try to follow the idea to get all the energy back via the huge induction pulse when opening the coil circuit, shortly before the PM has reached the center of the coil ! Okay, this is more complicated to collect this huge induction pulse energy= =20 during this short time, but as you can see in Newman=B4s first machine these induction pulses have a few milliseconds of duration and have a huge energy area ! > >Think about two examples. > >Assume coil flux is magnet flux 0 + 100 coil =3D 100 coil. > >1) Coil flux increases by 50%, so coil current go to 50%. > (Like my rod / coil experiment). =20 > > Magnet Coil Result > 50 + 100 =3D 150 > at 50% current 50 + 50 =3D 100 > >2) Coil flux increases by 100%, so coil current will go to 0. > The coils current flow generated flux is not needed as the > flux is coming from somewhere else. > > Magnet Coil Result > 100 + 100 =3D 200 > at 0% current 100 + 0 =3D 100 > >3) Coil flux increases by 200%, so coil current goes to -100% > in an attempt to hold coil flux constant. > > Magnet Coil Result > 200 + 100 =3D 300 > at -100% current 200 +-100 =3D 100 > >4) Coil flux increases by 1000%, so coil current goes to -900% > in an attempt to hold coil flux constant. > > Magnet Coil Result > 1000 + 100 =3D 1100 > at -900% current 1000 +-900 =3D 100 > >This may be difficult to see or my writing may not be clear enough. >The Gifs should be ready in a day or so. I bet, this experiment will DEACCELERATE the PM ! You convert some of the kinetic energy of the PM into negative input current= ! Okay, the coil might still have the same 100 % flux field=20 but what about the stored W=3D0.5xLI^2 ? What will it be in your example ? As it is a dynamic nonlinear system this formular is indeed INVALID, so I am working now on a differential equatation, that will address all these nonlinearity problems... Stay tuned. Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 11:44:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA11508; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:40:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:40:10 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:03:30 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701181803.TAA03301@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"C4MoD.0.Jk2.bYHuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1519 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>>True, but Einstein's special relativity is not necessarily gospel. There >are others that disagree, and have modeled the concept that gravity is >indeed induced by the ether (seen as a type of 'liquid'). Some see the >induction of gravity as a shielding effect, i.e. radiative pressure from >all directions, except the one that is covered by a second object. Some see >it as an actual flow of the medium, an inflow of this ether 'substance' >into matter, that is faster the bigger the mass concerned.>>>> > >Um...we are not talking about special relativity, even thought SR HAS been >proven by high speed airplanes (Time indead DOES slow down the faster you >get, since this is the case that means mass does increase as well, since it's >all related. As For GENERAL relativity, it's effects have been proven as >well. High flying aircraft have felt the increase in the rate of time, and >they have observed the special effects it has on light during a solar >eclipse. It also explains the the strange orbit of Mercury....I think those >count as proof for me, especially since no evidence to the contrary has been >observed. >-Adam Grossman So we are changing from gravity to time and general relativity. Again, I am not an expert, but there is a growing group of scientists that do not see the above proofs sufficient confirmation of the castle of relativity, and who would like to bring physics back to where intuitive understanding is not an optional any more. I am not saying that time does not change in different circumstances. But neither the time experiments nor the solar eclipse data unequivocally confirm Einstein's ideas. So I think we have an open situation here, until the disputes are settled. Incidentally the critics of Einstein's gr and sr are often denied space in the 'official' journals of science, and so the debate is not as open as it should be, one side being very disadvantaged by not having media at their disposition. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 13:03:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA07441; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:04:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:04:51 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:03:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970118150354_1419568600@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"H51wq1.0.vp1.SpIuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1520 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>But neither the time experiments nor the solar eclipse data unequivocally confirm Einstein's ideas. >>> But the data does! It is EXACTLY what general relativity says it should be! -Adam GRossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 14:36:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21276; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:38:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:38:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32E1B2E2.1E39@netcomuk.co.uk> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:36:34 -0800 From: Rob King X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-NC260 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xKzDy3.0.9C5.jBKuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1522 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Date: 18th Jan, 1997 Time 20:19 GMT Dear All, Word of warning: I had my car battery on charge for 24 hrs last weekend, I checked the terminal voltage and then decided to short the terminals with a hacksaw blade to discharge it a little. There was a big spark and then an almighty bang! The battery detonated in front of me, I was splashed with sulfuric acid and hit in the face by a large piece of flying plastic. I still have a small graze on my face that has nearly healed up. I can only summize that the build up of hydrogen and oxygen in the top of the cell must have ignited and shattered the entire upper half of the battery casing, leaving just the terminals sticking out from the plates, and plastic casing scattered around the room. Remember, never allow sparks near a battery that has been charging, this time I was lucky. :-) Wes, Please post the construction details for the Bifillar coil you mentioned. I suspect this may be a basket weave type coil, although the number of turns will be very limited by the very nature of the construction method. Maybe this could be used in the Adams Motor. I took 2 magnets out of a full height 5.25 HD (IBM) and they are very very powerful. They may be ALNICO and I intend to use these in my next Adams motor. Greg Watson may have something with this ferrite rod idea. I did not use ferrite rod as the coil core in my first Adams motor because it produced a flux density 50% less than a soft iron core. I now have 2 magnets that produce over 4Kg of repulsive thrust between each other (this is about 10 times more than the small circular PMs I used before). I had a go at re-building and testing the JOSEPH TATE ANTENNA circuit. I used a 3M x 0.5M sheet of aluminum foil for the antenna and the central heating pipe for the earth. With no coil in the circuit I got a small amount of power and then I realised that the fluorescent light was very close to the antenna and when I turned the light off the power was very small less than 1uW. I you wrap foil around the light fitting the power is enough to drive an LED dimly, with no LED connected the voltage rises to over 250 volts DC. Adding the coil between the antenna and the circuit made no difference to the power output. This is interesting but not worth pursuing any further. As regards Einstein's special relativity, I am surprised the man had time for his “theories”. I think he was a womaniser with a few half con-cocked ideas about gravity, time travel and the universe in general. “Time slows down for you relative to a stationary object when you are moving”, rubbish! I think time is effected by the density of the ether around us. The more dense the ether the faster time appears to move relative to point in space where the ether is less dense. I also think the ether density is determined by gravity, electric fields and possibly magnetic fields. But what do I know, I am just a lowly computer programmer not a scientist. Best regards Rob King Email address: ROBK@netcomuk.co.uk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 14:40:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA21749; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:42:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:42:05 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:41:43 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701182141.WAA06888@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"PRwY-3.0.jJ5.gEKuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1523 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>But neither the time experiments nor the solar eclipse data unequivocally >confirm Einstein's ideas. >>> > >But the data does! It is EXACTLY what general relativity says it should be! >-Adam GRossman I have heard a different story. - Josef Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 14:40:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA07711; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:50:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:50:34 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:50:17 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_zk-D2.0.Ou1.OUJuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1521 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:15:47 -0800 From: Harald Sundt To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation [ Note: This message is from my blind friend James Kness, and entered into e-mail on his behalf] Can you help track down a rumour that the National Security Agency has intercepted downlinked signals from the Hale-Bopp Companion on "K-Band" or some other SHF Band? Supposedly the form of the signal is 72 "pictograms" that are using a format simular to those used by NASA on Voyager. I'm not particularly interested in Conspiracy Theories or if their is some kind of Government "cover-up" of possible "E.T." signals from Hale-Bopp Comet. What I would like to know is ho to set up a directional K-Band antennea and how to point it at Hale-Bopp and listen for anything that might be construed as and intellegent signal. What is the best choice of an antennea, reciever and software for a Do-It-Yourself type observation of Hale-Bopp? Are there any amature Radio Astronomers presently attempting to observe Hale-Bopp? Yours, James Kness Cottage Grove Oregon From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 16:40:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA14714; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:22:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:22:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 11:43:08 +1100 Message-Id: <199701190043.LAA04422@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: Geoff Egel Solars home Page Resent-Message-ID: <"_rhCw1.0.lb3.maMuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1524 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I have noticed in some postings sent out some persons were unable to find my Solaris home page the address is http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ email egel@main.murray.net.au Please note the contents of my web site along with at least 25 other ideas is available on PC disk called encyclopedia of free energy in an updated html format and a earlier stand alone version for win31 and dos costing $20 Australian please add $5 for airmail postage Hope this clears up the confusion Geoff Egel 18 Sturt Street Loxton 5333 South Australia Australia From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 18:22:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05291; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:03:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:03:09 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:02:30 -0500 Message-ID: <970118210229_538261893@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"OFhcE2.0.ZI1.R3Ouo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1525 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>I have heard a different story.>>> Which is? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 18:42:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA08851; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:25:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 18:25:36 -0800 Message-ID: <32E1849F.169F@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:49:11 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, josephnewman@earthlink.net, epitaxy@localaccess.com, Stefan Hartmann Subject: Re: Gwatson´s test to DNMEC Over Unity ?? References: <199701182320.AAA20201@mail.bbtt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hHS1a1.0.BA2.SOOuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1526 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Stefan Hartmann wrote: > > >>If we open the connection from the battery to the coil, how can the > >>energy flow from the coil to the battery? The connection is OPEN. > > >Yes, try to better capture the energy from the pulses > >as we spoke about it a few month ago > >in a capture circuit with rectifier diodes and caps ! > > > > >>I have always worked on an understanding of Newman's work based > >>on the reverse, charging current happening when the coil is CONNECTED > >>to the battery. > > >No, this only works via the spark, when the coil is going just to be > >connected and the huge voltage builds up, so the spark > > > Should have read: > > ...just to be OPENED ! > > Sorry for the confusion. Was just on the phone, > when I answered this email ! > > >occurs at the commutator and also pushes still energy back to the battery, > >but this only works via the sparking commutator gap ! > >That is why there is a spark ! Because the coil is opened ! > > If you use a neon tube across the coil, the sparking is reduced > or at all suppressed, but then also the negative current pulses > back to the battery are suppressed ! > > Do you understand it now ? Is different to my current work. Will try to rearrange my thought so as to "see" this operation and how it relates to all the other effects. > > Wanted still to add: > > Ask Evan Soule and he will validate these facts ! > > He just sent me again a few Gifs, which show this > huge current pulses, as the commutator opens... > Hi Stephan, Me as well. I recently spoke to Evan about the following : If an Over Unity device works by generation a large reverse current flow into the power source, then it will not work in a closed loop of motor & generator. This is because if you apply a larger EMF to a generator than the generator is producing, you will force reverse current into the generator and turn it into a motor. That motor will attempt to reverse its rotation and oppose the motor driving it. Therefore, if a Newman motor produces excess reverse current, it CAN NOT run in a closed loop of motor & generator. The excess current would actually increase the load on the rotation motor. This lack of closing the loop has caused many.....many, including me, to doubt the validity of the Newman motor. It is as I said before, Overunity devices will exhibit reverse effects to existing power generation devices. If we are to fully understand the effects necessary to build Over Unity devices, we must look for these reverse effects in nature and be careful that when we try to apply them in practice that these reverse characteristics don't hide the desired Over Unity effect. Or in reality are not used to show that this device doesn't or can't work. I have sent this post to freenrg, vortex & newman as I believe an understanding of the above is critical to the search for Over Unity. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 19:46:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA22023; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:29:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:29:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199701190332.WAA10799@w3.bluegrass.net> From: "Sam Gordon" To: Subject: Idea for building gravity wave detector Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:29:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9rXft3.0.1O5.WKPuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1527 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I sent the idea about gravity post. I don't really know much about the theory of relativity, but if I'm right we should be able to build an antenna to receive and amplify this gravity waves in a very simple manner. This may or may not work. If the gravity waves flow from space to the center of any mass and the flow is proportional to the mass of an object then the earth has a greater gravity than a building. So the earth's center should be considered the focal point for the most inflow of the gravity wave. If the waves are traveling toward the center of the earth then one could visualize a cone of energy coming down at any one point on the earth's surface. One could make an antenna shaped like a cone or pyramid figuring out the angles the walls must be to allow the waves to contact the surface or surfaces of the antenna at 90 degree angles. The idea I had was to make a pyramid like antenna with the centroid of this connected to a crystal phono needle then if any oscillations occur in the incoming wave I may be able to pick them up and amplify them from the needle. Does this sound even remotely do-able? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 22:59:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA23469; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:42:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:42:18 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:00 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701190614.WAA10832@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Resent-Message-ID: <"rKK3i.0.ck5.89Suo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1529 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:30 AM 1/18/97 GMT, you wrote: >On Thu, 16 Jan 1997 19:49:50 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >[snip] >>gives the wire capacatance, which self tunes the circuit. Test were shown >>that proved the stored energy in the winding of a bi-fillar winding has >>fourteen hundred percent more stored energy than a conventional winding. If >>I understand this correctly, it would mean that you could get the same back >>emf with fourteen hundred percent less windings. If you are interested, I >>can post the results of the test and also the construction of the coils >>which can be duplicated in a couple of hours. >[snip] >Yes Wesly, please post the results of the test! I was always under the >impression that as a bifilar wound coil had no inductance, it would store >no energy at all. > > THERE IS TO MUCH TO POST BUT HERE IS A LITTLE OF THE RESULTS OF THE TEST. FOR A TWO, FOUR INCH DIAMETER, AIR CORE COILS, EACH WITH FOURTY THREE TURNS, ONE WITH A CONVENTIONAL SINGLE WINDING ANT THE OTHER WITH A WERIES BIFILAR WINDING, THE MEASURED INDUCTANCE AND RESONANT FREQUENCIES WERE SINGLE COIL: L= 207.92 uH F= 19MHZ BIFILAR COIL: L= 205.06uH F=11MHZ THE CALCULATED VOLTAGE GAIN FOR EACH COIL IS: VG=2PHI[19TIMES10 TO THE SIXTH POWER][208 TIMES 10-6TH 1 =25 TIMES 10 TO THE THIRD POWER VG= 2PHI[11TIMES10 TO THE SIXTH POWER][205 TIMES 10-6TH] 1 =14 TIMES 10 TO THE THIRD POWER THE MEASURED VOLTAGE GAIN, PLOTTED ON A SCALE OF 0-1, IS .18 FOR THE SINGLE WOUND COIL AND .97 FOR THE SERIES BIFILAR WOUND COIL. EXPRESSED AS A RATIO OF BIFILAR TO SINGLE WOUND, THE VOLTAGE GAIN OF THE SERIES BIFILAR IS GREATER THAN EXPECTED BY THEORY. VOLTAGE GAIN BIFILAR= 14 ==.58 THEORY SINGLE =24 BIFILAR=.97 =5.39 MEASURED SINGLE=.18 THE PERCENTAGE OF MEASURED TO CALCULATED VOLTAGE GAIN IS crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 22:59:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA23503; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:42:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:42:25 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:03 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701190614.WAA10835@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Resent-Message-ID: <"qbqtL1.0.8l5.F9Suo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1530 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:33 PM 1/17/97 -0900, you wrote: >At 7:30 PM 1/17/97, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >[snip] >>Yes Wesly, please post the results of the test! I was always under the >>impression that as a bifilar wound coil had no inductance, it would store >>no energy at all. >> >> >>Regards, >> >>Robin van Spaandonk > >They must have some small inductance, but just not coupled to the core due >to voltage cancellation. True? > >Regards, > >Horace: I ALREADY POSTED SOME OF THE RESULTS. "SELF INDUCTANCE" IS WHAT IS CANCELLED, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE OTHER POST THE BIFILAR STILL HAS INDUCTANCE. ALMOST THE SAME FOR THE SAME LENGTH OF WIRE. WHAT IS GOOD IS THAT YOU NOW HAVE A SELF TUNED CIRCUIT. THE ELECTRICITY IN THE BIFILAR IS GOING IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS, MAKING IT THINK IT IS POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE, WHICH GIVES IT THE EXACT AMOUNT OF CAPACITY IT NEEDS FOR A GIVEN LENGTH OF WIRE, PLUS IT GIVES MUCH MORE ENERGY STORAGE. DRAW IT ON A PIECE OF PAPER AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND. DRAW ONE OF THE BIFILARS AS AN INDUCTOR AND THE OTHER WIRE AS ANOTHER INDUCTOR, BESIDE THE FIRST WIRE. NOW FOR SIMPLICITIES SAKE CONNECT THE TWO ENDS OF THE TWO INDUCTORS [EVEN WE KNOW THEY ARE CROSS CONNECTED] AND PUT A CAPACITOR ON THE OTHER END TO TUNE IT TO PERFECT RESONANCE. THIS IS SOME OF THE RESULTS OF BIFILAR WINDINGS. YOU ALSO GET WAY MORE ENERGY STORAGE! THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENS IS THAT YOU NOW HAVE A LEFT HAND RULE AND A RIGHT HAND RULE, WHICH CANCEL OUT EACH OTHER. THERE IS A PATENT THAT USES MIRROR WOUND COILS THAT PRODUCE TWICE AS MUCH WORK WITH LESS POWER APPLIED. THE TESLA PATENT IS 512,340 PATENTED JUNE 1894 ALEXANDER: IF YOU WANT, FORWARD THE PARAGRAPH FROM THE PATENT THAT I SENT YOU. I DIDN'T REALIZE ANYONE ELSE WAS INTERESTED. > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 23:06:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA22428; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:37:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:37:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32E1CFF0.5D5@gorge.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 23:40:32 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #43 References: <199701181907.LAA18933@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"d3-Hn1.0.JU5.J4Suo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1528 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: TO: Wesley Crosiar: Please let us know more about how to wind a bi-filar coil. 1. Can you use "twisted pair" wires a la telephone wires? 2. How about paires "speaker wire?" TO: all RE: Superconducting coils: http://www.usit.net/hp/ami/tutorial/basics.html is a place where they sell superconducting magnets, and have some info on how they react to external mag fields. If I understand correctly, superconductors do not react to external fields the way normal conductors do. It is not as simple as just "no resistance." They may not work at all as a substitute. Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 23:12:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA23525; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:42:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:42:34 -0800 Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701190614.WAA10842@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"rzQPV1.0.Ul5.N9Suo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1531 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Please post the construction details for the Bifillar coil you mentioned. >I suspect this may be a basket weave type coil, although the number of turns will be >very limited by the very nature of the construction method. >Maybe this could be used in the Adams Motor. > ROBB: THERE IS NOTHING TO IT, JUST USE TWO SPOOLS OF WIRE TO WIND YOUR CORES. WHEN THEY ARE FINNISHED CROSS CONNECT THEM> l l l l l , l ll l l like this flows like this>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<- =positive and nagative plates of a capacitor.=tuning=storage. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 18 23:31:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA31704; Sat, 18 Jan 1997 23:14:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 23:14:36 -0800 Message-ID: <32E1C6CC.27B0@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:31:32 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #43 References: <199701181907.LAA18933@mx1.eskimo.com> <32E1CFF0.5D5@gorge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jOYGf1.0.Cl7.QdSuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1532 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Miller wrote: > > RE: Superconducting coils: > > http://www.usit.net/hp/ami/tutorial/basics.html > > is a place where they sell superconducting magnets, and have > some info on how they react to external mag fields. If I > understand correctly, superconductors do not react to > external fields the way normal conductors do. It is not > as simple as just "no resistance." They may not work > at all as a substitute. Hi Tom, This is correct as long as the superconductor is below its critical point, the Meissner effect will stop magnet fields entering a superconductor. A superconductor coil will not exhibit self induction and builds up it's field extremely quickly. This can cause problems as explained on the site. A superconduction magnet operation in persistence mode will behave like a powerful PM. Its field strength will not decrease as a result of it being used to do work. (I.E. Field coil in a motor). The site you mentioned is an excellent site for basic superconductor knowledge. Would also suggest you check : (Cryogenic Chambers Aid Low-Temperature Studies) Http://www.amp.com/product/articles/dd58.html (Superconducting Motor) Http://www.ornl.gov/press_releases/archive/mr940418-00.html -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 00:46:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA09176; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:28:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:28:33 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Gwatson=B4s_test_to_DNMEC_Over_Unity_=3F=3F?= Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:28:46 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32e6c48a.20593035@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701182320.AAA20201@mail.bbtt.com> <32E1849F.169F@mail.enternet.com.au> In-Reply-To: <32E1849F.169F@mail.enternet.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tVgJ_1.0.IF2.liTuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1533 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:49:11 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: [snip] >Hi Stephan, > >Me as well. > >I recently spoke to Evan about the following : > >If an Over Unity device works by generation a large reverse >current flow into the power source, then it will not work >in a closed loop of motor & generator. This is because >if you apply a larger EMF to a generator than the generator >is producing, you will force reverse current into the >generator and turn it into a motor. That motor will >attempt to reverse its rotation and oppose the motor >driving it. > [snip] So put a diode in the feed line, so that the back pulse is diverted elsewhere. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 01:02:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA09198; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:28:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 00:28:41 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:28:49 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32e7c72b.21266095@mail.netspace.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xNMjG3.0.ZF2.qiTuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1534 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:33:52 -0900, Horace Heffner wrote: [snip] > >They must have some small inductance, but just not coupled to the core due >to voltage cancellation. True? Yes. I was not trying to be exact, but rather aiming for the 99% target. What I meant was that I was under the impression that energy storage was directly related to inductance. Hence no (or very small) inductance would yield no (or very small) energy storage. If this is not so, then I see this as a "very interesting" mystery to say the least.:) > >Regards, > >Horace Heffner > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 02:07:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA23579; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 01:50:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 01:50:42 -0800 Message-ID: <32E1EB74.22CC@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:07:56 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Bifilar Coils References: <199701190614.WAA10835@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------6D253E71A81" Resent-Message-ID: <"vzkT81.0.Lm5.mvUuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1535 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6D253E71A81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wesly crosiar wrote: > > At 11:33 PM 1/17/97 -0900, you wrote: > >At 7:30 PM 1/17/97, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > >[snip] > >>Yes Wesly, please post the results of the test! I was always under the > >>impression that as a bifilar wound coil had no inductance, it would store > >>no energy at all. > >> > >> > >>Regards, > >> > >>Robin van Spaandonk > > > >They must have some small inductance, but just not coupled to the core due > >to voltage cancellation. True? Hi Wesly and Robin, Enclosed are two Gifs which show the effect of coil current on the ferrite material just below the coil's wire. The first is where each wire carries the same but opposite current. The second is where each wire carries the same current. Current was the same in each example. The simulation tends to indicated that bifilar coils will still have inductance, due to the ferrite domains just below each wire, aligning to the wires induced field, but the inductance will be much lower than a coil wound in the normal way due to the total bulk of the ferrite not being able to align its domains in a common way. Comments? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------6D253E71A81 Content-Type: image/gif; name="bifilar1.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="bifilar1.gif" R0lGODlhiQG0APcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPwEBAT8BKSkVAQEpLS0 vFSkpGx0dPwE/Pz8BAQE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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Jan 19 02:41:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA25348; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:11:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 02:11:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32E1F22A.1E71@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:36:34 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Coil maintaining flux & Free kinetic energy ? References: <3.0.32.19970115173041.00978f60@mail.localaccess.com> <32DDAEE9.2F95@mail.enternet.com.au> <32e41df4.12538789@mail.netspace.net.au> <32E066EE.2633@mail.enternet.com.au> <32e59650.8757598@mail.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gVaF32.0.-B6.KDVuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1536 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:30:14 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: > [snip] > >Hi Robin, > > > >To produce a force, requires energy. > > No it doesn't. That isn't how energy is defined. Defined yes, but you really believe that is a universal definition? > >If I direct that same 1 LB rocket upward and place a 1 LB weight in > >its nose, the weight will not rise or fall. Yet 32ftlb/sec^2 of > >energy is being consumed by the rocket motor. > > Yes the rocket motor is "consuming" energy (well not really, "converting" > might be a better way of putting it), but in this case it all appears as > kinetic energy in the exhaust, and as heat and light. > It does no work on the weight in the nose, as that remains in the same > place as it was beforehand. i.e. the rocket doesn't move. Just because it doesn't move, doesn't seem to me to be a very good reason to say no work is being done. > BTW 32ftlb/sec^2 is a force not (m*a), not an energy. Work is defined as > force times the distance that an object is moved by that force, and this is > also the difference in energy between before and after. According to my physics books as well. > >I agree the kinetic energy of the weight is not by our laws of the > >conservation of energy changing, but that rocket is sure making a > >lot of noise. Try telling NASA that they can levitate mass in a > >gravity field without needing energy. > > Actually NASA already know this, and make use of it continuously. A > satellite in orbit uses no energy, yet does not fall to the ground, despite > the force of gravity. We are TALKING about the weight remaining stationary in a gravity field of 32fl/sec^2 at the surface of the earth. NOT in orbit. Why is it when things become difficult, we attempt to redefine the problem instead of opening up our minds to the possibility that we just might not know it all. > A brick sitting on a table doesn't fall either, yet the table does no work. > In both cases opposing "forces" are at work, but as no movement takes place > in the direction of the force, no work is done, and hence no change in > energy occurs. Are you so sure that the production of a gravity slope requires no energy? Should then be able to produce antigravity with no energy usage. Should be possible to then produce an anti-grav field on one side of a Ferris wheel and extract energy from the torque produced. > >If I attempt to hold the brick in my outstretched hand, try > >telling my aching muscles that they are not using energy. > > This is different. Your muscles are "using energy" (doing work), and they > *are* moving the brick. They actually lift the brick a tiny fraction, then > drop it again, then lift it again, then drop it again. This is a dynamic > correction process employed by our bodies to keep something in the same > place. > We don't actually hold the brick still. So what happens if I slowly lower the brick, will energy flow into my muscles then? > >If a ferrite rod is attracted to a magnet, try telling the rod > >that no work is being done on it, even though we say E=1/2MV^2 > >as magnets can't do work. > > Only constant magnetic fields do no work. Read my Enterprise News Flash yet? > >Just because we can't understand where the energy is coming from > >doesn't mean energy is not being used. > > Actually, most of the time we do understand where it is coming from. Agreered (MOST of the time). Hi Robin, Thanks for the input. Now try thinking outside the square. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 03:41:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA00438; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:22:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:22:27 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <199701190614.WAA10832@claim.goldrush.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 13:35:16 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Tesla's bifilar coils Lines: 8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0I3Jg.0.m6.nFWuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1537 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Re Tesla's bifilar coils patent. In other words it is idea to create two opposite effects from one cause and in result there is no (almost no in real) any effect, i.e. back EMF, secondary field... So, power output is free. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 03:41:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA00563; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:22:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:22:53 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <970118085129_1377911900@emout16.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 13:53:25 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: longitudinal waves, gravity Lines: 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dV70m1.0.g8.BGWuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1538 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tesla demonsrated just longitudinal waves, his antenn had a sphere capacitor at the top. When high frequency high voltage source is powering the capacitor to make a change of density of charges on the surface of capacitor, this process create longitudinal waves. This way require high voltage and frequency but it don't require currents in antenn like modern radio systems. This is difference in principle between longitudinal and cross waves. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 05:58:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA13025; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:39:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:39:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32E327F1.6368@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:08:17 -0800 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications - Lighting, Concert & Special Effects X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wmHqA3.0.RB3.uFYuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1540 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wow - something from my area of interest !!!!! William Beaty wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:15:47 -0800 > From: Harald Sundt > To: billb@eskimo.com > Subject: Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation > > Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation Snipped ... ..... > What I would like to know is ho to set up a directional K-Band antennea > and how to point it at Hale-Bopp and listen for anything that might be > construed as and intellegent signal. > What is the best choice of an antennea, reciever and software for a > Do-It-Yourself type observation of Hale-Bopp? Question #1 - what is the current distance ( approx' obviously ) of Hale-Bopp from Earth at this time ? The reason for this question is that we need to determine a number of factors that will be VERY important in the design process. Distance - given an "estimated" E.R.P from the signal source will allow us to determine the overall system gain required to lift the wanted signal above the cosmic background. The overall system gain required will be determined by a number of factors, - obviously we can only take a guess at the transmitted power levels from the source of signal - but we can make a few broad "guesses" and work on a low power signal being the "worst case minimum" - once we have a distance to work from then the process of noise source temperature - calculation of required antenna gain - this in turn based upon the figures for the K-Band front-end / LNB that will be used. Another factor that has a great bearing upon the system gain is the BANDWIDTH of the required signal - as you will be aware, the wider the bandwidth of a given signal, the less energy available at any particular spot frequency - E.g a 1 Watt signal spread over 1Khz will have ( or seem to be stronger ) a distributed energy, much greater than the same power transmitter ( 1 Watt ) spread over 1Mhz, this even makes detetction of signals a little more difficult, you need to pick a band ( or range ) of bandwidths within the target band .. I.e scanning across 1Mhz right through the Allocated K-Band region, you really need to be able to sweep the band using a selectable I.F bandwidth - and make a number of continuous sweeps across the chosen range. If we start with Too WIDE a bandwidth it is possible that the "wanted" signal will be missed ( Buried in the background noise ). For things like T.V transponders this task is not too difficult - because we already know where to start looking, if we find a signal peak when first searching at a nbarrow I.F bandwidth - we can then choose a wider I.F - which effectively gives a broader snapshot of the spectrum under study. Once a signal source is located - the frequency should be compared against ALL known terrestial and orbiting satellite signal frequencies, MOST of these are well documented, some however ARE Un-published - be aware of this. A factor that can assist in narrowing down the signal source is to know the beamwidth of the receiving antenna system, and given that the Right Ascension and Declination of the target signal are known - we can discount any other signal that are not in the antenna's field of view. I.e if Hale-Bopp is at 30 degrees elevation to an observer and the only signal audible is at 90 degrees, then the 90 degree signal can be disregarded. Lifting the signal from the noise will be an interesting exercise, here we (as amateurs) do not have ready access to high speed DSP ( Digital Signal Processing ) techniques, it may be better ( initially anyway ) to broadband record the incoming signal, this can then be analysed "off-line". So what would be looking for ? .. A T.V signal has some well defined characteristics, which we can compare against, as we do NOT KNOW for certain the method by which the data is being broadcast - then we should look for a signal that is unlike the T.V standards - this will be easy to check - against the previously mentioned transponders - a great source of "test data". Oscilloscope analysis of the signal will help - but it is possible to analyse audio data on a P.C - you just need a little more hardware - or if we are looking at Low frequency recovered data - a Sound card can be used - there are some nice software products that let you carry out FFT on audio signals. So we still do not know what we are looking for - I would suggest looking for any recurrent pulse type data, should the "wanted" signal be from the suggested source - then I would doubt that modulated carrier ( Or A.M ) techniques would be a common transmission medium, C.W may be still alive in the far reaches - but I doubt it !! ( Sorry Zack if you take offence at that last bit ). Probably ( he said putting on his flame proof suit ) any significantly advanced culture would be using a high speed serial data format, O.K so how would this data be used to modulate an R.F carrier ? ... Beats me - but again I surmise ( not ASSuME ! ) that a FORM of Phase / Frequency modulation would have a number of benefits, particularly if a Narrow Band transmission method was employed - but wait a minute I hear you say ... you CANNOT have narrow bandwidth AND high speed data transmission at the same time - high speed = wide bandwidth, and vice-versa. YES IT DOES - the way WE do things, who really knows - they might be an even better method of impressing modulation / information / intelligence onto an R.F carrier - that we have not yet though of. Some sort of "back-emf" effect that doubles R.F carrier power when modulated ???? - I cannot answer this - I am not developing new communications applications - I am stuck with using what we already have to work with. > > Are there any amature Radio Astronomers presently attempting to observe > Hale-Bopp? I would also be interested to hear of other observations / observers of this signal. - in fact lets hear from them / YOU ! > I look forward to relevant response to this one, I do not think the LIST is the place however - the mailbox here has been overflowing with LIST messages these last 3 weeks ! email me directly with findings / sources etc etc etc. " We are listening " ! - The Truth is out there ....... Well if the Truth is "out there" - what is in here ? Glenville T. Swwyer gsawyer@dove.net.au http://dove.net.au/~gsawyer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 06:03:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA12367; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:31:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 05:31:18 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:30:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970119083039_1110143342@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea for building gravity wave detector Resent-Message-ID: <"u2Wvg2.0.913.a8Yuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1539 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>>>The idea I had was to make a pyramid like antenna with the centroid of this connected to a crystal phono needle then if any oscillations occur in the incoming wave I may be able to pick them up and amplify them from the needle.>>>> The trouble is that gravity waves are WAY to small to ever be detected by something that small. Any background EM radiation (That is all around us) would have a much much greater effect on the crystal than any gravity waves. The gravity waves detectors that they have now are burried deep underground and are huge gigantic tanks of a liquid (some times water). And there are pressure sensors along the sides. If any incoming gravity waves efftect the liquid, the sensors should pick it up. This is alot like how they try to detect nutrinos as well. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 07:29:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA22827; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 06:55:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 06:55:15 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:54:58 +0100 (ITA) Message-Id: <199701191454.PAA18751@korovev.stm.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: j.hasslberger@agora.stm.it (Josef Hasslberger) Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"xvA8G1.0.ba5.HNZuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1541 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>I have heard a different story.>>> > >Which is? Which is that the solar eclipse data do not conform to Einstein's prediction by a factor of 1:2. They have anyway been hyped as 'confirmation of relativity', although the calculations do not quite agree with the data of observation. Josef Hasslberger, Rampa Brancaleone 25 - 00165 Rome - ITALY when you have nothing better to do, check out my homepage for philosophical views on physics, economy and new energy at http://www.agora.stm.it/J.Hasslberger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 07:47:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA27500; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:28:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:28:15 -0800 Message-ID: <01BC0625.D301D300@asd-isdn01-22.dial.xs4all.nl> From: Pete Art To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Cc: "'billb@eskimo.com'" Subject: RE: Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation (fwd) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:21:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"Ji70z1.0.Yj6.EsZuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1542 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Bill, I work at a groundstation here in the Netherlands. We have several = dishes up to 35 meter. Can you give some more data on the location, = frequency of the ' signal' etc. Also some valid general information = would be welcome (or where to find it). Cheers, Pete ---------- From: William Beaty[SMTP:billb@eskimo.com] Sent: zaterdag 18 januari 1997 13:50 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 11:15:47 -0800 From: Harald Sundt To: billb@eskimo.com Subject: Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation Questions on Setting up a Hale-Bopp Observation [ Note: This message is from my blind friend James Kness, and entered into e-mail on his behalf] Can you help track down a rumour that the National Security Agency has intercepted downlinked signals from the Hale-Bopp Companion on "K-Band" or some other SHF Band? Supposedly the form of the signal is 72 "pictograms" that are using a format simular to those used by NASA on Voyager. I'm not particularly interested in Conspiracy Theories or if their is some kind of Government "cover-up" of possible "E.T." signals from Hale-Bopp Comet. What I would like to know is ho to set up a directional K-Band antennea and how to point it at Hale-Bopp and listen for anything that might be construed as and intellegent signal. What is the best choice of an antennea, reciever and software for a Do-It-Yourself type observation of Hale-Bopp? Are there any amature Radio Astronomers presently attempting to observe Hale-Bopp? Yours, James Kness Cottage Grove Oregon From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 08:01:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA27911; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:29:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:29:18 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:28:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970119102840_1658137276@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea about gravity Resent-Message-ID: <"TB9s91.0.0q6.CtZuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1543 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Which is that the solar eclipse data do not conform to Einstein's prediction by a factor of 1:2. They have anyway been hyped as 'confirmation of relativity', although the calculations do not quite agree with the data of observation.>>> This was while einstein was formulating General Relativity. He forgot to double a facotr. It has been corrected as soon as it was found. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 08:21:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA30651; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:49:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:49:00 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970119074949.00b09384@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 07:49:51 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au, harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) From: Epitaxy Subject: OU Motor from Louisiana Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-B4w_1.0.hU7.e9auo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1544 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A guy in Baton Rouge, Louisiana made an OU magnetic motor based on the Pereginus design it was shown on TV. The TV show was aired on 8/23/96 at 10pm the inventor's name is Richard White (not Gonzalez) his address is P.O. Box 65, Brittany 70718, his phone number is 504-644-4783. The TV station was WBRZ in Baton Rouge at 504-387-2222 or 504-336-2338 I talked to Richard White on the telephone and gathered the following impressions. He does not have a computer, Internet access or fax machine, he is around 60 years old, he is not paranoid, he is not aware of any FE energy work done by others, he was distrustful toward me for no apparent reason other than me calling him out of the blue. His motor works on similar ideas to Finsrud's and Stefan Marinov's (Chaotic motion, PM, energy vacuum, etc) It does require energy input, but it appears only to be for commutating or starting... --------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 09:09:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA07055; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:33:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:33:32 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:05:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701191605.IAA05824@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Solving the Newman function principle !! Resent-Message-ID: <"Wgv0D2.0.5k1.Qpauo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1545 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Alexander: You are the only one who has eyes that see and ears that hear! The patent # is 512,340 Jan 9 1894 >excuse Tesla's [english] Ha. > considering any two contiguous points on adjacent convoultions let it be assumed that there will exist between them a potential difference of one tenth of a volt, If now as shown in fig, 2, a conductor, and insulated from it and the end of a be connected whth the starting point of b the aggregate length of the two conductors being such that the assumed number of convolutions of tunns is the same, viz, one thousand, then the potential differnvce between any two adjacent points is a and b will be fifty volts, and as the capacity effect is proportionate to the square to this difference the energy stored in the coil as a whole WILL NOW BE TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSNAD AS GREAT. Following out this principle, I may wind any given coil either in whole or in part, not only in the specific manner herein illustrated, but in a great variety of ways, well known in the art, so as to secure between adjacent convolutions such potential difference as will GIVE PROPER CAPACITY TO NEUTRALIZE THE SELF INDUCTION FOR ANY GIVEN CURRENT THAT MAY BE EMPLOYED. CAPACITY SECURED IN THIS PARTICULAR WAY POSSESES AN ADDITIONAL ADVENTAGE IN THAT IT IS EVENLY DISTRIBUTED, A CONSIDERATION OF GREATEST IMPORTANCE IN MANY CASES, AND THE RESUSLT, BOTH AS TO EFFICIENCY AND ECONOMY, ARE THE MORE READILY AND EASILY OBTAINED AS THE SIZE OF THE COILS, THE POTENTIAL DIFFERENCE, OF FREQEENCY OF THE CURRENTS ARE INCREASED. >> > >MY COMENTS: ONE HALF OF CURRENT TIMES VOLTAGE SQUARED = JOULES > INSTEAS OF ONE TENTH VOLT BETWEEN TURNS, FIGURE FIFTY VOLTS BETWEEN EACH TURN, THIS IS FIVE HUNDRED TIMES GREATER. FIVE HUNDRED SQUARED DIVIDED BY VOLTAGE SQUARED=250,000 I sent this to alexander I thought others might be interested, this is just a paragraph from the tesla patent.> crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 10:38:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA26931; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:02:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:02:54 -0800 X-Sender: Byrun_Fox@pop.mindlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 10:02:56 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Byrun_Fox@mindlink.bc.ca (Byrun Fox) Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils Message-Id: Resent-Message-ID: <"iwQCp2.0.ja6.D7cuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1546 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >Re Tesla's bifilar coils patent. In other words it is idea to create two >opposite effects from one cause and in result there is no (almost no in real) >any effect, i.e. back EMF, secondary field... So, power output is free. > > >--- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 > > >I don't understand, no back EMF, no secondary field,...... no flus and no power out.....what's to be gained. Byrun. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 13:38:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA10705; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:28:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:28:49 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:30:29 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970119152605.1bdfde3e@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: self - debunking ? Resent-Message-ID: <"uieHo.0.1d2.D8fuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1548 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: >>> Test1 2.5N >>> Test2 71N >>> Test3 28N >>> Test3 12N >>> >>> I really dislike the comments of the type: "You can't come up with >>> anything new using old conventional laws". Bullshit ! Maxwell's theory >>> was reasoned out of inconsistencies of the old laws preceding it. The >>> inconsistency was the EM radiation. >> Say does anyone know the mass of these materials, the acceleration, the amount of energy held in the ciols field? before you call it OU be sure the kenitic energy is greater then the inductive energy. This may require extencive testing No atempt to insult, just a skeptic. I wold realy like to see this WORK. Let's be sure we are not waisting time and swet. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 13:49:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA09934; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:25:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:25:04 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:26:30 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970119152206.1bdf9324@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Gravity Waves?? Resent-Message-ID: <"tbbNJ2.0.-Q2.i4fuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1547 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello: On the subject of gravity waves; if we could find a way to measure this electrically, "Gravity wave detector", or explain it with real world formulas, there may be a [stumble over - a - log easy] method of converting to usable energy. I have 20 years experience making other-peoples NON working designs come to life. All of this with the assumption that the theory which I understand is correct. If we are to debunk the old theory we must quantify the new. I understand that there are many thoughts about the EM content of gravity. Is this true? Is this mesurable? With an understanding of what the components of this EM content are, I would be able to generate and test usable mathmatical materials that could reduce the design of gravity based OU devices to simple chalkboard and slide-rule methods. I am unfortunatly not currently privy to this understanding, and continue to use the OLD formulas [successfully] when designing or troubleshooting. Electronic engineers and technicians are a dime-a-dozen in the USA, so I currently squeek along on a pittence for income, attempting to learn advanced new theory with no money to BUY THE BOOKS, and the public library has no interest in science. Is there available somwhere, technical outlines concerning EM and gravity, that a poor boy can get his hands on. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 13:56:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA13627; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:45:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:45:28 -0800 Message-ID: <32E297A4.5A69@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:52:36 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils References: <199701190614.WAA10832@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qsjCy3.0.oK3.rNfuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1550 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Re Tesla's bifilar coils patent. In other words it is idea to create two > opposite effects from one cause and in result there is no (almost no in real) > any effect, i.e. back EMF, secondary field... So, power output is free. > How can power output be free if you need to provide power input? > --- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 -- Phil Gantt And in the end the Love you take is equal to the Love you make. ***Lennon/McCartney*** http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 14:03:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA12432; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:37:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:37:36 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:39:00 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970119153436.1bdfb90e@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: LC tank tuned to Earth resonance Resent-Message-ID: <"R70Rd2.0.823.UGfuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1549 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: SO: Here is the plan... Assuming that all magnetic energy under the LUF [lowest usable frequency "ham radio term usualy about 30MHz"] is permanently trapped by the earth atmosphere. One can divide the circumference of the earth into the speed of light and get somthing like 7.23Hz resonant frequency. This means that if lightning strikes one spot in TEXAS the wave front circles the earth and hits the same spot about seven times in the next second. [Explaining the 7.23Hz repeat pitch of lightning "I'll have to check that out"]. One could build a tank circuit that is tuned to this frequency that would begin to ring on it's own as the wave fronts pass through it. Using the old formulas and some guess work I will be building a coil 2600 turns of .015 inch diameter magnet wire with an average coil diameter of 5 inches, providing an X(L) of about 10 ohms @ 7.23Hz and may be resonated with a 220 uF cap [may have to play with the cap value]. I don't know what the internal resistance will be. This should give us a usable VOLTS per TURN measurment, along with the physical dimensions of the coil I should be able to quantify the usable EM energy under the LUF. I Think?? using the OLD rules??? If anyone knows of any other strong contents that may be used to enhance this I wold appreciate this information. If it does not work I can always use the coil to degaus tools, erase tapes, blow the media off of disks... Wish me luck... here goes... Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 14:12:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA13926; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:47:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:47:13 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:47:01 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU Motor from Louisiana In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970119074949.00b09384@mail.localaccess.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DIhU23.0.SP3.UPfuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1551 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 19 Jan 1997, Epitaxy wrote: > The TV show was aired on 8/23/96 at 10pm the inventor's name is Richard > White (not Gonzalez) his address is P.O. Box 65, Brittany 70718, his phone > number is 504-xxx-xxxx Hey, maybe posting his phone number here isn't wise, unless he first gave permission. I predict that he would get turned off REALLY fast if lots of random people from internet started calling him. Snailmail is lots less threatening. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 15:18:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA29257; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:53:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:53:13 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:51:16 -0800 (PST) X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199701192251.OAA11374@ws6.aa.net> X-Sender: knuke@pop.aa.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@aa.net (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: Idea for building gravity wave detector Resent-Message-ID: <"Q-H7I1.0._87.NNguo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1552 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>>The idea I had was to make a pyramid like antenna with the centroid of >this connected to a crystal phono needle then if any oscillations occur in >the incoming wave I may be able to pick them up and amplify them from the >needle.>>>> > >The trouble is that gravity waves are WAY to small to ever be detected by >something that small. Any background EM radiation (That is all around us) >would have a much much greater effect on the crystal than any gravity waves. >-Adam Grossman Not only this is true, but _any_ accoustical pressure would be picked up by the needle. I found this out (to my chagrin) in a church sound booth when I was a kid. I was responsible for playing albums of recorded organ music before the actual church service began. This music was piped into the foyer and main congregational area while people seated themselves, and it was supposed to encourage/create and enhance an atmosphere or attitude of worship. Sometimes I would let one of my friends into the sound booth, which was very well insulated, and we would joke around and laugh, thinking that noone could hear us. I found out the hard way that while the needle was playing in the groove of the album, it was also picking up, amplifying, and broadcasting all over the church my jokes and laughter. Anyone who knows me and is familiar with my sense of humor can imagine the kind of trouble this caused in this particular environment. Unfortunately, my talent for learning physics remains to this day, a result of major blunders of this kind. Bill Beaty could tell you one story about the birth of the Vortex-L group, but he is probably too nice of a guy to repeat it. I could tell other stories, but there are just too many. The upshot is, your idea is unworkable unless you are able to shield your antenna from all other noise or are able to identify and filter out all the other noise. Not an easy task. -Knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 17:56:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA19990; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:30:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:30:59 -0800 X-Sender: hheffner@corecom.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:12:49 -0900 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: hheffner@corecom.net (Horace Heffner) Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils Resent-Message-ID: <"XRCkR3.0.Bu4.Ihiuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1554 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 8:07 PM 1/19/97, Greg Watson wrote: [snip] > >The simulation tends to indicated that bifilar coils will still >have inductance, due to the ferrite domains just below each wire, >aligning to the wires induced field, but the inductance will be much >lower than a coil wound in the normal way due to the total bulk of the >ferrite not being able to align its domains in a common way. > >Comments? Very nice simulation. Typically, coils are not wound directly on the core but on a spool or wrapper, so the bottom layer is not adjacent to the core as shown. Also, the other layers of the coil are not adjacent to the core, thus grealy reducing the energy storage capacity. Regards, Horace Heffner From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 18:30:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA31771; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:19:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:19:41 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 17:51:16 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701200151.RAA00767@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils Resent-Message-ID: <"X7I9V3.0.Hm7.wOjuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1555 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:12 AM 1/19/97 -0900, you wrote: >At 8:07 PM 1/19/97, Greg Watson wrote: >[snip] >> >>The simulation tends to indicated that bifilar coils will still >>have inductance, due to the ferrite domains just below each wire, >>aligning to the wires induced field, but the inductance will be much >>lower than a coil wound in the normal way due to the total bulk of the >>ferrite not being able to align its domains in a common way. >> >>Comments? > >Very nice simulation. > >Typically, coils are not wound directly on the core but on a spool or >wrapper, so the bottom layer is not adjacent to the core as shown. Also, >the other layers of the coil are not adjacent to the core, thus grealy >reducing the energy storage capacity. > I have a question that one of you may be able to answer. If you have less inductance storage but more capacative storage wouldn't the back emf that is generated start with a bang and peter out at 90 percent of the cycle to almost zero, which would allow mosfetts to be used to do the switching? Second question which is directly related to the first. Doesn't the back emf from inductive discharge start from zero and peak at 90% of the cycle which burns out mosfetts? crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 19:01:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA03890; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:50:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:50:50 -0800 Message-ID: <32E29727.38F@tiac.net> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:50:31 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Coil maintaining flux... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"PbwPd3.0.hy.8sjuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1556 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg wrote: > Are you so sure that the production of a gravity slope requires no > energy? > Should then be able to produce antigravity with no energy usage. > Exactly, this is Missner levitation, no work is being done! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 19:42:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA08203; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:18:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:18:04 -0800 Message-ID: <32E2DCBD.47FE@triode.net.au> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:47:25 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News Flash! References: <970118084648_1992710101@emout04.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XUAhJ3.0.402.hFkuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1557 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > If it was THAT strong, couldn't it rip the iron out of your blood stream? Now > THAT wouldn't be good! Assuming you has some in the first place.. > Also...gravity-wave detectors are HUGE underground > tanks of liguid, like water. How can it be In a corridor? First, it wou;dn't > fit at all, and second you would need it to be underground! Not so his one. Its a new design. Apparently, it was a demonstration of just the basic electronics and laser system to VIP's before being shipped off to an undisclosed underground site somewhere in the ourback. They did the usual things to impress VIP's like: blow smoke into the laser beams to see where the beams are travelling, winding up the gain of the operational amplifiers to hear ants scratching themselves, and that sort of thing. Apparently, demonstrations like these usually impresses most non-academics. > Did you just make this story up? Not at all! I take no responsi;bility for it. Rather, I suspect it was my cat, who has been in the habit lately of switching on my computer at midnight, drinking catnip, and oggling the internet nasties before covertly interferring with my work from the day before, vis: rewriting my email to lists in a belated attempt to get me in trouble! I hope his clarifies the situation :0) Honest Max. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 19:46:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA11376; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:34:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:34:29 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 03:34:43 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32e1eea1.1449856@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701190614.WAA10842@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199701190614.WAA10842@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"TP8Xw1.0.fn2.3Vkuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1559 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:07 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: [snip] >ROBB: THERE IS NOTHING TO IT, JUST USE TWO SPOOLS OF WIRE TO WIND YOUR >CORES. WHEN THEY ARE FINNISHED CROSS CONNECT THEM> > l l > l l l > , l ll > l l > like this Wes, this connection diagram gives the impression that you connected the start of one wire to the end of the other. Is this so? (Or did you connect the start of one wire to the start or the other? > flows like this>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+ > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<- =positive and nagative plates >of a capacitor.=tuning=storage. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 19:56:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA10519; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:30:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:30:48 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970119193142.00af96a0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 19:31:44 -0800 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Overunity Motor on TV Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"INWg42.0.3a2.cRkuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1558 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: A guy in Baton Rouge, Louisiana made an OU magnetic motor based on the Pereginus design it was shown on TV. The TV show was aired on 8/23/96 at 10pm the inventor's name is Richard White (not Gonzalez) his address is P.O. Box 65, Brittany 70718, his phone number is 504-644-4783. The TV station was WBRZ in Baton Rouge at 504-387-2222 or 504-336-2338 I talked to Richard White on the telephone and gathered the following impressions. He does not have a computer, Internet access or fax machine, he is around 60 years old, he is not paranoid, he is not aware of any FE energy work done by others, he was distrustful toward me for no apparent reason other than me calling him out of the blue. His motor works on similar ideas to Finsrud's and Stefan Marinov's (Chaotic motion, PM, energy vacuum, etc) It does require energy input, but it appears only to be for commutating or starting... --------------------------------------------- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 21:17:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA03840; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:04:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:04:22 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:09:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701200409.UAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"X81bT2.0.vx.Lpluo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1560 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:34 AM 1/20/97 GMT, you wrote: >On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:07 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >[snip] >>ROBB: THERE IS NOTHING TO IT, JUST USE TWO SPOOLS OF WIRE TO WIND YOUR >>CORES. WHEN THEY ARE FINNISHED CROSS CONNECT THEM> >> l l >> l l l >> , l ll >> l l >> like this > >Wes, this connection diagram gives the impression that you connected the >start of one wire to the end of the other. Is this so? (Or did you connect >the start of one wire to the start or the other? > >> flows like this>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+ >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<- =positive and nagative plates >>of a capacitor.=tuning=storage. >[snip] >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > connect the start of one with the end of the other, measure with an ohm meter to make sure you don't get mixed up.> crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 21:52:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA07599; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:28:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:28:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32E3207C.A12@keelynet.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:36:28 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: W.Lambertson? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dUSCP1.0.fs1.DAmuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1561 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Hi Dr. Frolov! You asked about Win Lambertsen...Toby Grotz did a very nice article on him in the ANE (Association for New Energy) newsletter, edited and published by Robert Emmerich. As I understand it, he still has stability problems. Several years ago, I had an opportunity to speak with Mr. Lambertsen and attend a workshop at an ISNE conference. This was while he was working on his patent application. He passed around one of these Casimir cells and it looked like two thin plates with a silicone like caulk squeezed tightly between them. At the time, I asked Mr Lambertsen if the secret was crushed quartz crystals suspended in a thin layer of caulk and which were excited to piezoelectric emissions by the Casimir vibrations. Lambertsen said he of course could not confirm this because of the impending patent. Another item of interest, Lambertsen says he began his experiments driving 100W tungsten filament light bulbs, but the filaments would fracture and separate due to fluctuations of the ZPE. He began using sodium lights where the ionized sodium gas would easily absorb the power changes from the ZPE fluctuations. It was amazing to see pictures of banks of these sodium lamps being powered by stacks of these Casimir cells. It is interesting to note this ZPE fluctuation phenomenon and something that all researchers should keep in mind when working with trying to tap ZPE. Just for interest, Patrick Padrak just sent out a notice for the next ISNE conference to take place over the weekend of March 23rd. Check out http://www.padrak.com/ine website for more details. I think it will be in Denver and highly recommend it to anyone who is interested in free energy and related areas. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 22:01:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA09456; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:37:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:37:47 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:37:32 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701200537.VAA29855@andorra.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"NWhem3.0.fJ2.fImuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1563 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:09 PM 1/19/97 -0800, Wes wrote: >connect the start of one with the end of the other, measure with an ohm >meter to make sure you don't get mixed up.> Would a pair of wires, like 18ga speaker wires, be any easier in winding the coil verses two single wires? How about a flat ribbon of 10 wires? Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 22:02:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA09022; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:35:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:35:56 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32E297A4.5A69@ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 08:21:31 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils Lines: 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"whI931.0.pC2.wGmuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1562 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In resonance mode input is miminum. Bifilar create almost zero induction for secondary coil of transformer and input power is the same if secondary coil is connected or disconnected. But maximum value power output from it can be equal to two value of power that is collected in core of transformer, the same power is collected in capacitor in other phase of oscillation. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 22:48:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA21019 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:48:04 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:48:04 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Sun Jan 19 22:47:52 1997 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA20847 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:46:55 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp42.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.170]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id RAA07216 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:46:23 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32E310B1.49EB@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:59:05 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flux variations in Air Gaps of Magnetic Circuits (Part 3). Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3A1542604069" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3A1542604069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All These three Gifs show the effect on an air gap in a magnetic circuit of Nil, Equal opposing and Equal Adding fluxes from magnets buried in the left and right legs. Flux density on the left gap face is as follows : None : 0.037623 Wb Opposing : 0.0027677 Wb Adding : 0.04806 Wb Note that opposing fluxes don't cause large flux distortions above the gap. 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<32E31316.105D@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:09:18 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flux variations in Air Gaps of Magnetic Circuits (Part 4). Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------31A43AC72BC" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------31A43AC72BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, These 3 Gifs show the effect on an air gap in a magnetic circuit of Nil, Equal opposing and Equal Adding fluxes from magnets on both sides of the gap. Flux density on the right gap face is as flows : None : 0.050812 Wb Opposing : 0.01701 Wb Adding : 0.075031 Wb Note that in the opposing case, massive flux distortion has occurred and flux is now flowing above the gap and will increase the attraction of a ferrite there. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------31A43AC72BC Content-Type: image/gif; name="gap4.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="gap4.gif" R0lGODlhHgHfAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPwEBAT8BKSkVAQEpPz8 /AT8/Pz8BAQE/Pz8BAQE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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LVqkyO3n26bvTw/N7UTZYPVafF++5qV1tGyTW8/qTfd4im/akS+Muc7a7ti5WRf5jZRwDczO u7Xbp+V0xov5zpVW/JT5CazwstyN62bWhad5mNd5CL15k+9pli95l1d6fz7hiU/PnWx5pF9R 543edcd6KzX3ref6rPfdrv9LsNf6sBf7ryd7r6dr6FV7cD/7tjd7t7f6qx97t3/7uq/7uF/7 shfMgAAAOw== --------------31A43AC72BC-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 22:57:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA20780; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:46:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:46:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32E2F708.2FB3@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:09:36 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Maxwell CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News Flash! References: <32E140BD.3934@triode.net.au> <32E04E8C.505E@mail.enternet.com.au> <32E2E45B.2BDD@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5XEac1.0.Y45.2Jnuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1564 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Maxwell wrote: > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > NEWS FLASH! SUPERCONDUCTOR MAGNET DESTROYED BY FLYING ANVIL! (1/4/96) > > > While it is accelerating, its kinetic energy is growing. > > E=1/2MV^2. The energy increase is real. > > What lost energy to accelerate the rod? The Magnet? > > Don't be silly, we ALL know magnets can't do work! > > The textbooks are clear on it... The energy comes from the super magnet > if it is shorted and isolated from the power supply. If the leads of the > Superconducting magnet are shorted then the magnet will try to maintain > the flux linking the coil constant. Normal magnets yes, Superconducting magnets no. Only thing that will reduce a Superconducting magnet's field is the very...very small residual resistance in the wire and joints. > The anvil gains energy as it > approaches the coil and increases the inductance of the coil system. The > coil will react by decreasing the current flowing such that the flux > linkages remain constant but the coil's energy has reduced. Normal coil yes, but this is a Superconducting coil and we all know that magnetic lines of flux can't enter a Superconductor. Therefore the approaching anvil and its aligned domains will increase the magnetic field surrounding the coil but it will have NO effect on the Superconducting coil's current. So the answer is? The energy in the capacitor will be less than that which charged the coil, but the loss will be due to resistance and not energy transference to the approaching anvil. > However, consider this... > > You have a button magnet sitting on top of a sheet of Superconducting > material at room temperature. Liquid nitrogen is poured over the > superconductor and the magnet begins to lift and then suddenly jump up > in the air and remain suspended above the sheet indicating that the > sheet is now Superconducting. You note that one of the properties of a > superconductor is to resist all magnetic fields within the sheet and > currents will form on the surface to balance out the flux of the magnet > thus causing the magnet to suspend in mid air. You also note that work > has been done by the superconductor on the magnet to lift it against the > pull of gravity. > > Question: where did the energy come from to lift the magnet? > > Maxwell. Hi Maxwell, Gets stranger and stranger as we ask questions. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 23:12:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA21156; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:48:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:48:59 -0800 Message-ID: <32E2F30E.25D8@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:52:38 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Horace Heffner CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GtJjt2.0.TA5.PLnuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1567 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Horace Heffner wrote: > > At 8:07 PM 1/19/97, Greg Watson wrote: > [snip] > > > >The simulation tends to indicated that bifilar coils will still > >have inductance, due to the ferrite domains just below each wire, > >aligning to the wires induced field, but the inductance will be much > >lower than a coil wound in the normal way due to the total bulk of the > >ferrite not being able to align its domains in a common way. > > > >Comments? > > Very nice simulation. > > Typically, coils are not wound directly on the core but on a spool or > wrapper, so the bottom layer is not adjacent to the core as shown. Also, > the other layers of the coil are not adjacent to the core, thus grealy > reducing the energy storage capacity. > > Regards, > > Horace Heffner Hi Horace, >From memory the wires were 0.25mm above the ferrite core. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 23:13:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA20894; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:47:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:47:20 -0800 Message-ID: <32E30E2B.4211@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:48:19 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flux variations in Air Gaps of Magnetic Circuits (Part 2). Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------690E73DC7866" Resent-Message-ID: <"z74001.0.N65.sJnuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1566 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------690E73DC7866 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, The two attached Gifs show flux patterns in a toroid with two coils. The first shows equal but opposite fluxes attempting to flow in the ferrite toroid. As the two coil's H fields flow in opposite directions around the ferrite toroid, very few domains are able to align and cause flux redirection, so most of the flux exits the ferrite. The second shows only one coil carrying current and most of the domains aligning to the coil's H field, causing massive flux redirection and almost all of the flux staying in the ferrite. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------690E73DC7866 Content-Type: image/gif; name="toroid2.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="toroid2.gif" R0lGODlh2QDPAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPwEBAT8BAQEpKSkVPz8 /Gx0dAT8/AQE/Pz8BAQE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flux variations in Air Gaps of Magnetic Circuits (Part 1). Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3EAD64A7339" Resent-Message-ID: <"94thE2.0.x45.6Jnuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1565 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3EAD64A7339 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All This post is in 3 parts to fit within Bill's 40k mail limit. The first is an isolated Permanent Magnet showing internal demagnetizing due to the magnet's N pole driving flux internally to the S pole. Notice the dish shape of the internal flux contours. 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--------------3EAD64A7339-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 23:46:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA30969 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:46:04 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:46:04 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gwatson@enternet.com.au Sun Jan 19 23:46:01 1997 Received: from bukula.enternet.com.au (bukula.enternet.com.au [203.63.18.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA30949 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:45:56 -0800 Received: from e2a116.enternet.com.au (acc2-ppp42.ade.enternet.com.au [210.8.6.170]) by bukula.enternet.com.au with SMTP id SAA09349 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:45:34 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <32E320B1.24B9@mail.enternet.com.au> Old-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:07:21 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flux variations in Air Gaps of Magnetic Circuits (Part 3). Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1A957FAF3126" X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1A957FAF3126 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All These three Gifs show the effect on an air gap in a magnetic circuit of Nil, Equal opposing and Equal Adding fluxes from magnets buried in the left and right legs. Flux density on the left gap face is as follows : None : 0.037623 Wb Opposing : 0.0027677 Wb Adding : 0.04806 Wb Note that opposing fluxes don't cause large flux distortions above the gap. 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wokVURLvyIs30ZqskEkoCTSbtMqrxEp91I3QWEIZGYn8oAs86bH8ez2kOA1GxAupAJJCLL6e lEnt6ETp0MiMJMbqoMu5rIlb5Me3xI4hO8IpKZD/OI2jPMm80xaj4Ai1eIohWUtX8ZiPhESq pMi7pEy8rMy73Mu4zEwKpEljNAn0sAxDWQix/MDsUYrEDEuzAA+BuMYjvBrgyExhvEzLpM3Z hE2AnEifBCCPJKH6sBFgLvkIvUHM/OnBuXCAo+gOvEiT17TED6nKrITO6LxKXCQOYiw+6khL M0kL50gIpDCWwvyvqkoIMUHOpGjHm+yMSbxE26zN9qTHmuQUnXxP6fFNxqSSxGyIrnoUMCmX JwoIADs= --------------1A957FAF3126-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 19 23:53:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA28771; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:30:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:30:24 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:29:34 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701200729.BAA25114@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"CquXA2.0.L17.Dynuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1568 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>Re Tesla's bifilar coils patent. In other words it is idea to create two >>opposite effects from one cause and in result there is no (almost no in real) >>any effect, i.e. back EMF, secondary field... So, power output is free. >> >> >>--- >> Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia >> Tel:7-812-2747877 >> >> >>I don't understand, no back EMF, no secondary field,...... no flus and no >power out.....what's to be gained. > >Byrun. >> The coils are supposed to produce scalar waves. Also, Tesla's "standing columnar wave" was a scalar wave. See the Colorado Springs Notes. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 00:10:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA31001; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:46:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 23:46:27 -0800 Message-ID: <32E32117.5092@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:09:03 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Flux variations in Air Gaps of Magnetic Circuits (Part 4). Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4C1B2D32C00" Resent-Message-ID: <"pnK733.0.Ja7.IBouo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1569 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4C1B2D32C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, These 3 Gifs show the effect on an air gap in a magnetic circuit of Nil, Equal opposing and Equal Adding fluxes from magnets on both sides of the gap. 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--------------4C1B2D32C00-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 00:49:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA06254; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:40:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 00:40:23 -0800 Message-ID: <32E33E57.1507@gorge.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:43:51 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <199701200726.XAA28094@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Y1p2H.0.eX1.qzouo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1570 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks again, Greg Watson! Allow me to propose a "thought experiment," which may further my education about magnitism. 1. First, assume only one coil (let's say the left side.) If the power to this coil is switched off, the "collapsing field" should cause a current to flow opposite to the input current. 2. Now, back to the illustrated toroid, except replace the RIGHT coil with a permanent magnet (inserted into the toroid) of exactly equal force (flux density?) to the original coil, and equal to the the remaining LEFT coil. 3. With the left coil "on" the result should be the same as with two coils. 4. When the left coil is turned off, shouldn't the inductive power caused by the collapse of its own field be increased by the flux flowing around the toroid, due to the permanent magnet? 5. If so, wouldn't the current (flowing in the reverse direction to the input current) be GREATER than the input current? 6. Couldn't this current (back EMF?) be shunted off by a BIG diode, (as has been suggested here recently) so that it could produce useful work? I realise there must be a misunderstanding here, and hope someone will explain it to me. Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 01:42:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA03305; Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:31:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 15:31:24 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:28:44 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea for building gravity wave detector In-Reply-To: <199701192251.OAA11374@ws6.aa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tAzV01.0.Yp.Axguo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1553 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >>>>>The idea I had was to make a pyramid like antenna with the centroid of > >this connected to a crystal phono needle then if any oscillations occur in > >the incoming wave I may be able to pick them up and amplify them from the > >needle.>>>> > > true, but _any_ accoustical pressure would be picked up by the needle. > ....playing in the groove of the album, it was also picking up, amplifying, and broadcasting all over the church my jokes and laughter. > other noise. Not an easy task. > -Knuke Isn't that what a vacuum chamber is for? .. then you've only got seismeic vibrations which (humm) geo would make a nifty earthquake meter (been there done that)... But a Laser TABLE Base would be a good starting point -no? -=se=- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 02:43:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA23576; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:31:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:31:44 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 05:29:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970120052938_913278900@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, NEWMAN-L@emachine.com cc: harti@bbtt.de, bauer.d@krypta.aball.de Subject: High Voltage Switching device for Coils (Part 1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.9754.emout12.mail.aol.com.853756178" Resent-Message-ID: <"sRdz-.0.Im5.Ecquo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1571 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.9754.emout12.mail.aol.com.853756178 Content-ID: <0_9754_853756178@emout12.mail.aol.com.91317> Content-type: text/plain Dear Experimenters, I give you in attached document (HVSW.GIF) a very usefull circuit that I build recently. This is a High Voltage switching device for driving coils and which have big impedance when it is switched off. It can be use in Back-EMF energy recovery tests, Newman coils electronic commutator.....This device is drived by an opto-coupler and can be easily connected with an opto-switch for synchronisation phase (with plastic shutters) with a Newman commutator device for instance..... I use this circuit for BackEMF energy recovery tests. I send you in next message, a 12 Volts drivers circuit for this High Voltage switch. BE CAREFULL, USE EXTREME CAUTION !!!, this device use High voltage, disconnect and discharge capacitor before touch it. 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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------743B36321C02" Resent-Message-ID: <"AAPca.0.QK6.70ruo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1572 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------743B36321C02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All These three Gifs show the effect on an air gap in a magnetic circuit of Nil, Equal opposing and Equal Adding fluxes from magnets buried in the left and right legs. Flux density on the left gap face is as follows : None : 0.037623 Wb Opposing : 0.0027677 Wb Adding : 0.04806 Wb Note that opposing fluxes don't cause large flux distortions above the gap. In fact very little flux is available above the gap. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------743B36321C02 Content-Type: image/gif; name="gap1.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="gap1.gif" R0lGODlh6QCgAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPwEBAT8BKSkVAQEpPz8 /AT8/Pz8BAQE/Pz8BAQE/Pz8/AT8/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <199701200726.XAA28094@mx1.eskimo.com> <32E33E57.1507@gorge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uUcWS2.0.97.6_ruo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1573 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Miller wrote: > > Thanks again, Greg Watson! > > Allow me to propose a "thought experiment," which may further my > education about magnetism > > 1. First, assume only one coil (let's say the left side.) > If the power to this coil is switched off, the "collapsing field" > should cause a current to flow opposite to the input current. When a field collapses in a coil, the coil will produce an EMF which will attempt to add to the falling flux. This will cause coil current to flow in the same direction as the original current and attempt to sustain the falling field at the original value. > 2. Now, back to the illustrated toroid, except replace the > RIGHT coil with a permanent magnet (inserted into the toroid) of > exactly equal force (flux density?) to the original coil, and equal > to the remaining LEFT coil. > > 3. With the left coil "on" the result should be the same as > with two coils. Similar, a magnets hardened ferrite domain alignment will react differently to the soft H field aligned domains in an electromagnet. > 4. When the left coil is turned off, shouldn't the inductive > power caused by the collapse of its own field be increased by the > flux flowing around the toroid, due to the permanent magnet? The coil doesn't have much energy stored in this field due to the lack of aligned domains. The coil's field would be falling and the magnets increasing. The coil will sense a falling field and then an increasing field of the opposite polarity. Remember the two fluxes are opposing. > 5. If so, wouldn't the current (flowing in the reverse > direction to the input current) be GREATER than the input current? Unluckily no. Think of the magnet as just providing a bias flux which alters the working point of the toroid on the B/H curve. All the coil will do is to drive the operating point up and down the ferrite's B/H point. The falling coil's field will cause current to flow in the same direction as it was flowing. > 6. Couldn't this current (back EMF?) be shunted off by a > BIG diode, (as has been suggested here recently) so that it could > produce useful work? > > I realize there must be a misunderstanding here, and hope someone > will explain it to me. > > Tom Miller Hi Tom, Thanks for the input, I hope you find the above answers your questions. Keep thinking ........ outside the square. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 05:54:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA06884; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 05:17:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 05:17:22 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:12:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970120081229_1725373267@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, NEWMAN-L@emachine.com cc: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de, harti@bbtt.de Subject: HV Switching device 12 V driver (Part 2) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.24903.emout08.mail.aol.com.853765949" Resent-Message-ID: <"Vqe6g2.0.Rh1.V1tuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1574 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --PART.BOUNDARY.0.24903.emout08.mail.aol.com.853765949 Content-ID: <0_24903_853765949@emout08.mail.aol.com.21978> Content-type: text/plain Dear Experimenters, I give you in attached document (HV12Vdrv.GIF) this circuit could drive my High Voltage Switching device with a 12 Volts car battery (see my previous message with the attached "HVSW.GIF" for the HV Switching scheme ). Its very powerfull to experiment Back-EMF Coils power recovery testing, and for testing some self-powerering machine with a 12 Volts battery like Newman coils, Adams motors, G-field generators ..... BE CAREFULL, USE EXTREME CAUTION !!!, this device use High voltage, disconnect and discharge capacitors before touch it. Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com --PART.BOUNDARY.0.24903.emout08.mail.aol.com.853765949 Content-ID: <0_24903_853765949@emout08.mail.aol.com.21979> Content-type: image/gif; name="HV12VDRV.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhzgIfAoAAAAAAAP///ywAAAAAzgIfAgAC+4yPqcvtD6OctNqLs968+w+G4kiW5omm 6sq27gvH8kzX9o3n+s73/g8MCofEovGITCqXzKbzCY1Kp9Sq9YrNarfcrvcLDovH5LL5jE6r 1+y2+w2Py+f0uv2Oz+v3/L7/DxgoOEhYaHiImKi4yNjo+AgZKTlJWWl5iZlJCIAA4OnJwJkg qvAJ2vmpqbrKKkMKkXpA+tpZGlpr8Erbytvry7F7G6CLayvbQJxb/Mvc7OwQDC28kEyNG/2c rd2MPb1srewt2r1dbm5pGgsLjhwu7n4eL39Jbvx9251cP8/fX7j/DSCnfMUA+juIMI9BeAvJ VauWMKJERukWIlOX+wvjxI0cO3r8CDKkyJEkS5o8iTKlypUsW7p8CTOmzG0Va9q8iTPdzJ08 c5xyYbGn0KEdfr4ISjSp0ghGYSBdCpWIKSRToTRdN+Jp1K0+Khrx2uQqUxJauZr1qbMIWCVi JZSVdnZIzrl069q9izev3r18+/r9Cziw4MGBMdQM8TYui8Qw18pNm6StW7KKhTBurPGxZLVP L9ur3BX0qCWebWz2BqK06Kyrj7GdojpD7NYfZrO0vQL3jNMpdEuEDLFU1WEYgQ+f4DsQ8Huy hh83nvlB8hPTY/A2Uf3grOaup213932Yhux9wv/EZr57esOksVxnnVRfeHbiH14b/M/t2vzR 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IHBhcnR5IG90aGVyIHRoYW4gQWxjaGVteSBNaW5kd29ya3MgSW5jLg0NVXNlIG5vIGhvb2tz ADs= --PART.BOUNDARY.0.24903.emout08.mail.aol.com.853765949-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 06:24:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA13196; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:00:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:00:17 -0800 Message-ID: <32E47E7C.76C6@dove.mtx.net.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:29:48 -0800 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications - Lighting, Concert & Special Effects X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HV Switching device 12 V driver (Part 2) References: <970120081229_1725373267@emout08.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YQ8ku1.0.6E3.lftuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1575 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Experimenters, > > I give you in attached document (HV12Vdrv.GIF) this circuit could drive my > High Voltage Switching device with a 12 Volts car battery (see my previous This is indeed a very nice inverter circuit, although perhaps using Mosfet or IGBT technology for the high current switching stages ( replacing the '3055's ) may provide a slightly more efficient circuit - and that is surely what most readers of this list are aiming at. Regardless - a well tried and proven layout, thank you. P.S I never did get to see part 1. - it simply did not arrive. Regards, Glenville T. Sawyer gsawyer@dove.net.au http://www.dove.net.au/~gsawyer Outback Communications +61 885 66-3236 Concerts, Special Event Staging, Lighting & Extra Special Effects. (Business Hrs phone calls ONLY) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 06:36:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA17474; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:24:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:24:52 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:24:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970120092411_538452866@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea for building gravity wave detector Resent-Message-ID: <"SdFGH2.0.xG4.n0uuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1576 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Isn't that what a vacuum chamber is for? .. then you've only got seismeic vibrations which (humm) geo would make a nifty earthquake meter (been there done that)... But a Laser TABLE Base would be a good starting point>>> Um... EM radiation can move through a vacuum. They would have many orders of magnatude more effect on the detector than any gravity waves. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 08:39:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA24491; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:27:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:27:08 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 19:19:06 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! Lines: 17 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fSzSC2.0.Z-5.Ppvuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1579 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 19:16:17 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Please, stop *.gif publications! Lines: 6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"s_B9o2.0.Iz5.9pvuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1578 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: People! Let us stop publish *.gif files here. IF someone is interested, he can ask it directly. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 08:45:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA25181; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:32:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:32:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199701201635.LAA16861@w3.bluegrass.net> From: "Sam Gordon" To: , "Maxwell" Cc: Subject: Re: News Flash! Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:32:42 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0OG-62.0.N96.4uvuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1581 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- > From: Greg Watson > To: Maxwell > Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Re: News Flash! > Date: Sunday, January 19, 1997 11:39 PM > > Maxwell wrote: > > > > Greg Watson wrote: > > > > > > NEWS FLASH! SUPERCONDUCTOR MAGNET DESTROYED BY FLYING ANVIL! (1/4/96) > > > > > While it is accelerating, its kinetic energy is growing. > > > E=1/2MV^2. The energy increase is real. > > > What lost energy to accelerate the rod? The Magnet? > > > Don't be silly, we ALL know magnets can't do work! > > > > The textbooks are clear on it... The energy comes from the super magnet > > if it is shorted and isolated from the power supply. If the leads of the > > Superconducting magnet are shorted then the magnet will try to maintain > > the flux linking the coil constant. > > Normal magnets yes, Superconducting magnets no. Only thing that will > reduce a Superconducting magnet's field is the very...very small > residual > resistance in the wire and joints. > > > The anvil gains energy as it > > approaches the coil and increases the inductance of the coil system. The > > coil will react by decreasing the current flowing such that the flux > > linkages remain constant but the coil's energy has reduced. > > Normal coil yes, but this is a Superconducting coil and we all know > that magnetic lines of flux can't enter a Superconductor. Therefore > the approaching anvil and its aligned domains will increase the magnetic > field surrounding the coil but it will have NO effect on the > Superconducting coil's current. > > So the answer is? > > The energy in the capacitor will be less than that which > charged the coil, but the loss will be due to resistance and not energy > transference to the approaching anvil. > > > However, consider this... > > > > You have a button magnet sitting on top of a sheet of Superconducting > > material at room temperature. Liquid nitrogen is poured over the > > superconductor and the magnet begins to lift and then suddenly jump up > > in the air and remain suspended above the sheet indicating that the > > sheet is now Superconducting. You note that one of the properties of a > > superconductor is to resist all magnetic fields within the sheet and > > currents will form on the surface to balance out the flux of the magnet > > thus causing the magnet to suspend in mid air. You also note that work > > has been done by the superconductor on the magnet to lift it against the > > pull of gravity. > > > > Question: where did the energy come from to lift the magnet? > > > > Maxwell. > > Hi Maxwell, > > Gets stranger and stranger as we ask questions. > > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson, > Greg Watson Consulting, > Adelaide, South Australia, > gwatson@enternet.com.au > > Does it not take energy to manufacture the liquid nitrogen. And is there some heat removal work going on? So the energy comes from the coolant. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 08:47:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA25790; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:35:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:35:28 -0800 Message-ID: <32E35872.5F3D@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:35:14 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. References: <199701200537.VAA29855@andorra.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4NnYL.0.qI6.Fxvuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1582 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Randall wrote: > > At 08:09 PM 1/19/97 -0800, Wes wrote: > >connect the start of one with the end of the other, measure with an ohm > >meter to make sure you don't get mixed up.> > > Would a pair of wires, like 18ga speaker wires, be any easier in winding the > coil verses two single wires? How about a flat ribbon of 10 wires? > > Michael Randall Speaker wire does make a rather good bifilar coil, as does "zip cord", or stnadard two conductor line cord. One of the most important factors is the ratio of wire diameter to inter wire spacing. This is basic trnasmission line theory, so a better understanding can be had through basic texts, or through some of the excellent books published by the ARRL. Another interesting method of producing bifilar coils is to use twisted pair, often sold as intercomm wire. Ribbon cable can do ok, but the wire diameter is nearly the same size as the inter-wire gap, so the coefficient of coupling suffers. You can simply short the adjecent conductors at each end of the cable with two conductors free on one end, of one free at each end depending on the number of conductors in your ribbon cable. Teh best results are usually had with large diameter enamaled wire, as the ratio of wire diameter to inter-wire gap is large, and mutual coupling is also high. A carefully wound bifilar coil will have nearly no net inductance as well as mutual inductance with other nearby coils. So if most of the field is eliminated in this manner, why then does the core material effect the electrical performance of such coils? There should be nearly no flux available to interact with the core. Interesting eh? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 08:54:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA24158; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:25:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:25:42 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970120082631.0098e26c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:26:32 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, tom@gorge.net From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ZdX9x1.0.Nv5.3ovuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1577 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MY REPLIES ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW At 01:43 AM 1/20/97 -0800, you wrote: >Thanks again, Greg Watson! > >Allow me to propose a "thought experiment," which may further my >education about magnitism. > > 1. First, assume only one coil (let's say the left side.) >If the power to this coil is switched off, the "collapsing field" >should cause a current to flow opposite to the input current. BIG MISTAKE ! When the power supply powering the coil is switched off the current in the coil DOES NOT reverse ! The current in the coil will flow in the same direction and decay exponentially according to the t=L/R relation. > 2. Now, back to the illustrated toroid, except replace the >RIGHT coil with a permanent magnet (inserted into the toroid) of >exactly equal force (flux density?) to the original coil, and equal > to the the remaining LEFT coil. > > 3. With the left coil "on" the result should be the same as >with two coils. > > 4. When the left coil is turned off, shouldn't the inductive >power caused by the collapse of its own field be increased by the >flux flowing around the toroid, due to the permanent magnet? No. > 5. If so, wouldn't the current (flowing in the reverse >direction to the input current) be GREATER than the input current? The current during the coil's field collapse DOES NOT reverse direction, it just decays because of the coil circuit resistance. > 6. Couldn't this current (back EMF?) be shunted off by a >BIG diode, (as has been suggested here recently) so that it could >produce useful work? If you mean shunted as in a diode that is usually used in relays to prevent the high voltage pulse than this diode will only prolong the coil's current decay by lowering the coil circuit resistance. >I realise there must be a misunderstanding here, and hope someone >will explain it to me. > >Tom Miller > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 09:02:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA24786; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:29:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:29:20 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:24:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199701201624.IAA03795@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Scalar Heads Up To: rwall@ix.netcom.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"RymgZ1.0.936.Urvuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1580 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 1/20/96 Heads up! Bob Shannon has posted extremely valuable information below. We always inquire about SCALAR technology. Here it is. Bob has generously cast his pearls before us. Read closely and perform your experiments carefully. RWW >To all, > >If we want to actually perform vector superposition of magnetic flux, >"there is a way", but it's not shown in any of Greg's posts that I >have seen so far. > >The B field component of an EM wave in free space will undergo vector >superposition when waves of opposite phase are mixed. Note that this >is not a static case as in Greg's tests. Also, note that the E field >is equally suppressed in this case. Persons familiar with scalar >electromagnetics will recognise this as a form of scalar translation. > >Also, if a bifilar coil is wound, and each conductor is driven with >equal and opposite currents, there will be flux opposition and >distortion of the flux around each opposed conductor, but the total >flux in the system is conserved. Given AC current through the two >conductors, we will see something a bit different. > >This assumes that the two conductors have high mutual inductance, and >that the combination of the two coils forms a net non-inductor. >Again, persons familiar with scalar electromagnetics will recognise >another form of scalar translation. > >The vector superposition in these cases is quite different than the >tests Greg describes. Actual vector superposition of magnetic flux in >and of itself does not liberate energy stored in atomic matter. It >does not decelerate orbital electrons either. The result is the >liberation of the free A field, or magnetic vector potential. >Interested readers might wish to refer to the article in Scientific >American on the subject of "Quantum Interferance and the Aharnov-Bohm >effect", which I beleive appears in the May 1995 issue. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 09:09:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA27245; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:43:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:43:27 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:42:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970120113938_1278033060@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Waves?? Resent-Message-ID: <"3P3cn1.0.Tf6.g2wuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1583 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>On the subject of gravity waves; if we could find a way to measure this electrically, "Gravity wave detector", or explain it with real world formulas, there may be a [stumble over - a - log easy] method of converting to usable energy.>>> They are SOOO small that not much energy can be tapped. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 09:16:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA28646; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:48:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:48:36 -0800 Message-ID: <32E35B79.851@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:48:09 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Xzbc22.0.Q_6.U7wuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1584 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Maxwell wrote: >You also note that work > has been done by the superconductor on the magnet to lift it against the > pull of gravity. > > Question: where did the energy come from to lift the magnet? > > Maxwell. An interesting question indeed! While levitated, no work is being done as strange as this may seem. When I have seen Missner levitation demonstrated, the magnet was placed over the already superconducting material, which is only a bit different. In this case, the magnet also does work in stopping the fall of the magnet. As the material transitions to the superconducting state, and pops up, the work will be done against the magnet for a short period only. This work is not being done by the superconductor, but by the magnet. This does not appear to present any problems from the perspective of classical theory. If the magnet were strong enough, it would never pop up, as high temp superconductors will not superconduct if the flux density is above a rather low critical point. I've seen high temp superconductors cease superconduction while still below the critical temprature when the flux gets too strong. For a smaller magnet, this should not be an issue however. Magnets can do work, but they pay a penalty for doing so. They cannot do unlimited work without depolarization. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 09:31:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA00225; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:03:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:03:22 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:34:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701201634.IAA08737@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"ARSV41.0.J3.JLwuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1587 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 09:37 PM 1/19/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 08:09 PM 1/19/97 -0800, Wes wrote: >>connect the start of one with the end of the other, measure with an ohm >>meter to make sure you don't get mixed up.> > >Would a pair of wires, like 18ga speaker wires, be any easier in winding the >coil verses two single wires? How about a flat ribbon of 10 wires? > >Michael:Yes, BUT, Speaker wire has more dielectric, which means less capacatance. Coils wound in this fashion are RC circuits, circuits wound in the normal fashion are RL. RC circuits discharge faster than RL circuits. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 09:31:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA31712; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:56:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:56:34 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:27:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701201627.IAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: W.Lambertson? Resent-Message-ID: <"zBAPF.0.Ol7.0Fwuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1585 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 11:36 PM 1/19/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Dr. Frolov! > >You asked about Win Lambertsen...Toby Grotz did a very nice article on >him in the ANE (Association for New Energy) newsletter, edited and >published by Robert Emmerich. As I understand it, he still has stability >problems. > >Several years ago, I had an opportunity to speak with Mr. Lambertsen and >attend a workshop at an ISNE conference. This was while he was working >on his patent application. He passed around one of these Casimir cells >and it looked like two thin plates with a silicone like caulk squeezed >tightly between them. > >At the time, I asked Mr Lambertsen if the secret was crushed quartz >crystals suspended in a thin layer of caulk and which were excited to >piezoelectric emissions by the Casimir vibrations. Lambertsen said he of >course could not confirm this because of the impending patent. > >Another item of interest, Lambertsen says he began his experiments >driving 100W tungsten filament light bulbs, but the filaments would >fracture and separate due to fluctuations of the ZPE. He began using >sodium lights where the ionized sodium gas would easily absorb the power >changes from the ZPE fluctuations. It was amazing to see pictures of >banks of these sodium lamps being powered by stacks of these Casimir >cells. > >It is interesting to note this ZPE fluctuation phenomenon and something >that all researchers should keep in mind when working with trying to tap >ZPE. > >Just for interest, Patrick Padrak just sent out a notice for the next >ISNE conference to take place over the weekend of March 23rd. Check out >http://www.padrak.com/ine website for more details. I think it will be >in Denver and highly recommend it to anyone who is interested in free >energy and related areas. >-- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 > Have you seen the expiriment where you take a sheet of lucite and put a piece of tinfoil on each side. The whole assembly is placed in an oven or a [HOT] charcoal bricuet is placed under it. While it is melting it is subjected to a high voltage electrostatic potential, such as a tesla coil. When it is melted, it is then allowed to cool, while still being pulsed with the HV. When it has returned to solid form it is supposed to be a permanent "electrostatic magnet", even after the coil has been shut off. In other words you can discharge it over and over angin and it will produce a spark every time. DOES ANYONE HAVE A SHEET OF LUCITE? If this really works, maybe it it the same thing as described above. Could the latex caulk possibly be Lucite? If so it would be a simple matter to built a tate type antenna, using high speed switching diodes "GERMANIUMS" and use a series of these cells to provide the electrostatic potential. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 09:33:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA00044; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:02:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:02:57 -0800 Message-ID: <32E35EE0.291E@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:02:40 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Waves?? References: <970120113938_1278033060@emout09.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"b2OPd1.0.a.-Kwuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1586 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>On the subject of gravity waves; if we could find a way to measure this > electrically, "Gravity wave detector", or explain it with real world > formulas, there may be a [stumble over - a - log easy] method of converting > to usable energy.>>> > > They are SOOO small that not much energy can be tapped. It's often hard to remember that gravity is one of the weakest forces, although one of the most stubborn. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 09:45:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01499; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:09:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:09:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32E36052.84A@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:08:50 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gwatson@enternet.com.au CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations in Air Gaps of Magnetic Circuits (Part 3). References: <32E34ECC.303A@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q0-P43.0.9N.lQwuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1588 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > > Hi All > > These three Gifs show the effect on an air gap in a magnetic circuit > of Nil, Equal opposing and Equal Adding fluxes from magnets > buried in the left and right legs. > > Flux density on the left gap face is as follows : > > None : 0.037623 Wb > Opposing : 0.0027677 Wb > Adding : 0.04806 Wb > > Note that opposing fluxes don't cause large flux distortions > above the gap. In fact very little flux is available above the > gap. > -- > Best Regards, > Greg Watson, Greg, Can you post a simulation of the condition where flux does not undergo distortion while opposed, and remains in the 'better conduction path' of the ferrite? (flux summing?) You described this condition as being key to understanding DNMEC. So far, I have not seen this condition in practice or simulation. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 09:54:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA03185; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:16:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:16:52 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:48:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701201648.IAA09252@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! Resent-Message-ID: <"XyD1_.0.gn.3Ywuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1590 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:19 PM 1/20/97 +0300, you wrote: ><"free". Any comments? >< > Alexander:CHECK FOR XRAYS AND EXCESS UV IF YOU ARE USING HIGH VOLTAGE crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 09:57:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01958; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:10:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:10:46 -0800 Message-ID: <32E360B8.24FD@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 12:10:32 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: HV Switching device 12 V driver (Part 2) References: <970120081229_1725373267@emout08.mail.aol.com> <32E47E7C.76C6@dove.mtx.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"91oSl2.0.VU.KSwuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1589 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Glenville Sawyer wrote: > > JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: > > > > Dear Experimenters, > > > > I give you in attached document (HV12Vdrv.GIF) this circuit could drive my > > High Voltage Switching device with a 12 Volts car battery (see my previous > > This is indeed a very nice inverter circuit, although perhaps using > Mosfet or IGBT technology for the high current switching stages > ( replacing the '3055's ) may provide a slightly more efficient > circuit - and that is surely what most readers of this list are aiming > at. > > Regardless - a well tried and proven layout, thank you. > > P.S I never did get to see part 1. - it simply did not arrive. > > > Regards, Glenville T. Sawyer Part 1 has the important stuff, part 2, with the 2n3055's is only the power supply to part 1. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 12:04:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA01214; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:03:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:03:00 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:01:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701201901.NAA00230@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Scalar Heads Up Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"ldAvR2.0.pI.Z5yuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1592 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: > >1/20/96 > >Heads up! > >Bob Shannon has posted extremely valuable information below. We always >inquire about SCALAR technology. Here it is. Bob has generously cast >his pearls before us. Read closely and perform your experiments >carefully. > >RWW > >>To all, >> >>If we want to actually perform vector superposition of magnetic flux, >>"there is a way", but it's not shown in any of Greg's posts that I >>have seen so far. >> >>The B field component of an EM wave in free space will undergo vector >>superposition when waves of opposite phase are mixed. Note that this >>is not a static case as in Greg's tests. Also, note that the E field >>is equally suppressed in this case. Persons familiar with scalar >>electromagnetics will recognise this as a form of scalar translation. >> [snip] >>Interested readers might wish to refer to the article in Scientific >>American on the subject of "Quantum Interferance and the Aharnov-Bohm >>effect", which I beleive appears in the May 1995 issue. > Great posting! The original paper (highly recommended) is: "Significance of Electromagnetic Potentials in the Quantum Theory", D. Bohm and Y. Aharonov, Physical Review Second Series, Vol 115 No. 3, Aug 1, 1959, pp. 485-491. Also see "The quantum effects of electromagnetic fluxes", S. Olariu and I. Popescu, Reviews of Modern Physics, Vol 57 No 2, April 1985, pp. 339-436. Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 12:16:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA08016; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:27:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:27:53 -0800 Message-ID: <32E3807D.23B6@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:26:05 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! References: <32E3BFCA.1603@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lZVev1.0.yy1.qSyuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Phil Gantt wrote: > > Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <"free". Any comments? > > < > > > > > If output 40 Watts is more than input 6 watts you have 34 Watts free. > > Take my congrulations! > > > > --- > > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > > Tel:7-812-2747877 > > Not exactly free. A 40 watt lamp requires 40 watts of power at 60 Hz. > At 6MHz, and a much higher voltage, the lamp only requires 6 watts of > input power. Still this is 6 watts that I must provide to the lamp to > produce the light equivalent (or nearly so) of a fluorescent lamp at 60 > Hz. The 6 watt that I must provide is not free. > > Thanks for the congratulations. It is a good invention, and it could > save billions of watts of power if implemented throughout the planet. > Unfortunately, I was never able to productize this invention to make it > available to the public (no money). I does work well however, and this > is one of the most practical device that I have seen using these types > of coils. Quite right! A similar effect can also be seen with conventional bulbs. As the frequancy rised, so does the heating effect per watt delivered. Ham radio operators often used standard 110V bulbs as dummy loads for HF tramsmitters (they actually present a good match to a 50 ohm transmitter) and will deliver full apparent brightness at lower RF wattages than is needed with 60 hz. house current. There are also high frequancy floresent bulbs with built in RF oscillators that can be bought off the shelf as energy savers. I dislike these becuase of the RF emissions they produce. So the efficiency is much higher, but this comes at the price of having lots of extra RF floating about. So this idea may already have been commercialized. Tesla developed many high frequancy lamps which operated in this manner. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 12:43:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA01073; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:02:30 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:02:30 -0800 Message-ID: <32E3BFCA.1603@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 10:56:10 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Sc0eu3.0.NG.25yuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1591 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > <"free". Any comments? > < > > If output 40 Watts is more than input 6 watts you have 34 Watts free. > Take my congrulations! > > --- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 Not exactly free. A 40 watt lamp requires 40 watts of power at 60 Hz. At 6MHz, and a much higher voltage, the lamp only requires 6 watts of input power. Still this is 6 watts that I must provide to the lamp to produce the light equivalent (or nearly so) of a fluorescent lamp at 60 Hz. The 6 watt that I must provide is not free. Thanks for the congratulations. It is a good invention, and it could save billions of watts of power if implemented throughout the planet. Unfortunately, I was never able to productize this invention to make it available to the public (no money). I does work well however, and this is one of the most practical device that I have seen using these types of coils. -- Phil Gantt And in the end the Love you take is equal to the Love you make. ***Lennon/McCartney*** http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html (updated 1/18/97) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 14:08:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA11493; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:30:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:30:48 -0800 Message-ID: <32E39DA4.2CF@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:30:28 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Bouncing email? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tNz7c2.0.Rp2.6G-uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1594 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: A I've been getting lots of the following: ************************************************************************ Your mail could not be delivered because of the following reason: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- No matching or similar name in the people database for 'rudy.kremers'. ----- Unsent message follows ----- >From bshannon Mon Jan 20 14:26:05 +0000 1997 remote from tiac.net Received: from ncrgw1.UUCP (ncrgw1@localhost) by ncrhub4.NCR.COM (8.7.6/8.7.3) with UUCP id PAA00039 for newzealand.attgis.com!rudy.kremers; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:03:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by ncrgw1.NCR.COM; 20 Jan 97 15:03:39 EST Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA08019; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:27:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 11:27:53 -0800 Message-ID: <32E3807D.23B6@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:26:05 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! References: <32E3BFCA.1603@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lZVev1.0.yy1.qSyuo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1593 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com ************************************************************************ Does anyone know why, or what if anything I can do about this? It seems that anything posted to freenrg-l generates at least one of these messages, sometimes many. Is anyone else getting these? Should freenrg-l pass along undeliverable notifications to the originator? I have received some of these messages which do not appear to match up with messages I originated, which is rather odd. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 14:28:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA17992; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:55:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:55:37 -0800 Message-ID: <32E3A37B.259D@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:55:23 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970120082631.0098e26c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ACr_21.0.2P4.Od-uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1595 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > If you mean shunted as in a diode that is usually used in relays to prevent > the high voltage pulse than this diode will only prolong the coil's current > decay by lowering the coil circuit resistance. Minor point, but as R drops, should'nt the discharge get shorter, not longer? The diode prevents the back EMF from messing with the coil driver by shorting the coil, not by lenghtening the discharge. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 14:45:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA21312; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:07:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:07:16 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:09:56 +0100 Message-Id: <199701202209.XAA29197@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: gwatson@enternet.com.au From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Flux variations in Air Gaps of Magnetic Circuits (Part 3). Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"ZDPDl2.0.vC5.Jo-uo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1596 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Hi All > >These three Gifs show the effect on an air gap in a magnetic circuit >of Nil, Equal opposing and Equal Adding fluxes from magnets >buried in the left and right legs. > >Flux density on the left gap face is as follows : > >None : 0.037623 Wb >Opposing : 0.0027677 Wb >Adding : 0.04806 Wb > >Note that opposing fluxes don't cause large flux distortions >above the gap. In fact very little flux is available above the >gap. Hi Greg, am pretty busy right now with writing a test report for a Video-PC magazine over here right now... Will have a closer look later and let you know my comments. Let the new ideas come in ! Let me know, which flux switch you would prefer to build. Today some iron test core material arrived from "Vacuum Schmelze Hanau", which Dieter Bauer ordered to build the flux switch. 1997 must be the year I want to have a working OU prototype on my table ! :) Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 16:39:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA05177; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:33:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:33:19 -0800 Date: 20 Jan 97 18:31:20 EST From: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@CompuServe.COM> To: list owner Subject: OU MOTOR Message-ID: <970120233119_103510.1772_IHL89-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"yK0S6.0.jG1.y20vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1597 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: "A guy in Baton Rouge, Louisiana made an OU magnetic motor based on the Pereginus design it was shown on TV." Epitaxy, after your conversation with Mr. White, did you think that this idea was worth pursuing further? I have seen the various descriptions and pictures for this motor (2 to 1 ratio geared wheels with opposing magnets) but had not heard of anyone building it. Was his motor similiar to the one I described above? Does his use repulsing magnets? Has he had it running for any length of time? How about torque? Well, I have probably exceeded my limit of questions on this (sorry about that!) Anyway, please let me know if you have any more info. on this. Thanks, Glenn Hinton From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 17:11:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA27913; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:09:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:09:58 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:08:39 -0500 Message-ID: <970120200837_1691917378@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Waves?? Resent-Message-ID: <"uud_P2.0.wp6.XT1vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1598 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>It's often hard to remember that gravity is one of the weakest forces, although one of the most stubborn.>>> What does that have to do with it? There theoretical energy is very small, just because they are "stubborn" doesn't make the small energy become very large! Wait! If that were true, stubborness could be a form of free energy! Yay! -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 17:44:21 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA01949; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:44:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:44:03 -0800 Message-ID: <32E41B4A.64AE@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:56:34 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Variations in Flux Density in Air Gaps with Edge MMF source (Part 2) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------188435123011" Resent-Message-ID: <"zrNpn.0.MU.Xz1vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1599 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------188435123011 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Here are the last 2 of 4 Gifs showing core and air gap flux density variations with edge MMF sources. As Bob Shannon has objected to "Flux summing", I shall refer to the effect as "flux density variation". Note that external flux density increases above the gap as internal flux density drops due to the opposing flux from the coil on the right edge. Gifs are : Edge0 : No opposing or adding flux from the coil. Edge10 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 10% of the magnet. Edge25 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 25% of the magnet. Edge50 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 50% of the magnet. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------188435123011 Content-Type: image/gif; name="edge25.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="edge25.gif" R0lGODlh+QDlAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPwEBAT8BKSkVAQEpPz8 /AT8/Pz8BAQE/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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Gaps with Buried MMF source (Part 1) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------56F5710AAB3" Resent-Message-ID: <"8jMnv3.0.kZ.i-1vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1600 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------56F5710AAB3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Here are the first 2 of 4 Gifs showing core and air gap flux density variations with buried MMF sources. As Bob Shannon has objected to "Flux summing", I shall refer to the effect as "flux density variation". Note that external flux density drops as internal flux density drops due to the opposing flux from the coil on the right. Gifs are : Core0 : No opposing or adding flux from the coil. Core10 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 10% of the magnet. Core25 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 25% of the magnet. Core50 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 50% of the magnet. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------56F5710AAB3 Content-Type: image/gif; name="core0.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="core0.gif" R0lGODlh9wDkAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPwEBAT8BKSkVAQEpPz8 /AT8/Pz8BAQE/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 17:46:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA02556; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:46:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:46:07 -0800 Message-ID: <32E41BA6.5F00@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:58:06 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Variations in Flux Density in Air Gaps with Edge MMF source (Part 1) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------568F26C42084" Resent-Message-ID: <"Atpe1.0.rd.S_1vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1601 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------568F26C42084 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Here are the first 2 of 4 Gifs showing core and air gap flux density variations with edge MMF sources. As Bob Shannon has objected to "Flux summing", I shall refer to the effect as "flux density variation". Note that external flux density increases above the gap as internal flux density drops due to the opposing flux from the coil on the right edge. Gifs are : Edge0 : No opposing or adding flux from the coil. Edge10 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 10% of the magnet. Edge25 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 25% of the magnet. Edge50 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 50% of the magnet. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------568F26C42084 Content-Type: image/gif; name="edge0.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="edge0.gif" R0lGODlh+wDlAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPwEBAT8BKSkVAQEpPz8 /AT8/Pz8BAQE/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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<32E41D32.AD0@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:04:42 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Variations in Flux Density in Air Gaps with Buried MMF source (Part 2) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3B47946D1B" Resent-Message-ID: <"-7kdB1.0.Pm.012vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1602 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3B47946D1B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Here are the last 2 of 4 Gifs showing core and air gap flux density variations with buried MMF sources. As Bob Shannon has objected to "Flux summing", I shall refer to the effect as "flux density variation". Note that external flux density drops as internal flux density drops due to the opposing flux from the coil on the right. Gifs are : Core0 : No opposing or adding flux from the coil. Core10 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 10% of the magnet. Core25 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 25% of the magnet. Core50 : Coil is supplying an opposing flux of 50% of the magnet. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------3B47946D1B Content-Type: image/gif; name="core25.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="core25.gif" R0lGODlh+gDjAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgICAgAQEBPwEBAT8BKSkVAQEpPz8 /AT8/Pz8BAQE/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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<32472A1A.23C3@ats.com.au> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:23:54 +1000 From: Max Rebo Reply-To: id4@ats.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Waves?? References: <970120200837_1691917378@emout02.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i4fwQ.0.nD3.je2vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1603 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: RO X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > just because they are "stubborn" doesn't make the small energy become very > large! Wait! If that were true, stubborness could be a form of free energy! > Yay! > -Adam Grossman Excellent! All I need to do is collect all the single females in Australia together in one place, and I've got the ultimate free energy device right there ... ;) -- Be seeing you ... =8^) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BAMBOO SOFTWARE PRODUCTIONS, INC. "We love playing games, but not as much as making 'em!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew Etherington (aka Max Rebo) Senior Vice President and Head Programmer [ id4@ats.com.au ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Cynic? Ah yes ... 'cynic' is what an idealist calls a realist" --- Sir Humphrey Appleby ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 19:57:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA14274; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:34:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:34:53 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:34:44 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32e922ca.12857127@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701190614.WAA10832@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rcuYD3.0.ZU3.-i2vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1605 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 19 Jan 97 13:35:16 +0300, Alexander V. Frolov wrote: >Re Tesla's bifilar coils patent. In other words it is idea to create two >opposite effects from one cause and in result there is no (almost no in real) >any effect, i.e. back EMF, secondary field... So, power output is free. Actually in a normal electric motor, it is precisely the back EMF that limits the feed current, thus ensuring that such motors can be quite efficient. The back EMF is your friend, not the enemy. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 20:11:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA14223; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:34:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:34:38 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Coil maintaining flux & Free kinetic energy ? Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:34:39 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32e81b28.10902432@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <3.0.32.19970115173041.00978f60@mail.localaccess.com> <32DDAEE9.2F95@mail.enternet.com.au> <32e41df4.12538789@mail.netspace.net.au> <32E066EE.2633@mail.enternet.com.au> <32e59650.8757598@mail.netspace.net.au> <32E1F22A.1E71@mail.enternet.com.a u> In-Reply-To: <32E1F22A.1E71@mail.enternet.com.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"387yP2.0.vT3.ti2vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1604 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:36:34 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: >Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >> >> On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:30:14 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: >> [snip] >> >Hi Robin, >> > >> >To produce a force, requires energy. >> >> No it doesn't. That isn't how energy is defined. > >Defined yes, but you really believe that is a universal definition? Greg, a definition is simply a meaning that we humans decide to attach to a particular word. As such we have defined the term "energy" (well more or less :). If this concept and definition don't suit your purposes, then you will have to define something else that does. However the word "energy" is already taken. You will have to use something else. [snip] >Just because it doesn't move, doesn't seem to me to be a very good >reason to say no work is being done. > >> BTW 32ftlb/sec^2 is a force not (m*a), not an energy. Work is defined as >> force times the distance that an object is moved by that force, and this is >> also the difference in energy between before and after. > >According to my physics books as well. I'm not sure whether this is a statement of agreement, or a form of sarcasm. > [snip] >We are TALKING about the weight remaining stationary in a gravity field >of 32fl/sec^2 at the surface of the earth. NOT in orbit. Why is it >when >things become difficult, we attempt to redefine the problem instead of >opening up our minds to the possibility that we just might not know it >all. Please see example below. > >> A brick sitting on a table doesn't fall either, yet the table does no work. >> In both cases opposing "forces" are at work, but as no movement takes place >> in the direction of the force, no work is done, and hence no change in >> energy occurs. > >Are you so sure that the production of a gravity slope requires no >energy? >Should then be able to produce antigravity with no energy usage. Any form of support (e.g. table) does this all the time. (Note that no energy usage implies no movement, hence anti-gravity with no energy usage might indeed be possible, provided that no movement results from application of the anti-gravity field. > >Should be possible to then produce an anti-grav field on one side of a >Ferris wheel and extract energy from the torque produced. As movement is involved in this case, you are asking the anti-gravity field to do work. This will involve conversion of energy from one form to another. Since it's your anti-gravity field, I guess it's up to you to determine where that energy is going to come from. > >> >If I attempt to hold the brick in my outstretched hand, try >> >telling my aching muscles that they are not using energy. >> >> This is different. Your muscles are "using energy" (doing work), and they >> *are* moving the brick. They actually lift the brick a tiny fraction, then >> drop it again, then lift it again, then drop it again. This is a dynamic >> correction process employed by our bodies to keep something in the same >> place. >> We don't actually hold the brick still. > >So what happens if I slowly lower the brick, will energy flow into >my muscles then? Yes in the form of heat. This is because you are *slowly* lowering the brick, and your muscles are also employed trying to resist that lowering. Therefore what really happens is that both sets of muscles are actually working against one another to some extent. This adds even more heat than that due to decrease in potential energy of the brick. As you can see this is a rather complex process, and therefore not really a good example of a simple energy conversion process. [snip] >> Only constant magnetic fields do no work. > >Read my Enterprise News Flash yet? No, did you post this, or is it at your web site? [snip] >Hi Robin, > >Thanks for the input. Now try thinking outside the square. [snip] Greg, If I weren't trying to think outside the square, I wouldn't follow this list. However getting one's definitions confused is hardly the same thing as discovering something new. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 22:10:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA32542; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:49:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:49:16 -0800 Message-ID: <32E4582A.7057@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 00:46:19 -0500 From: Ben Tammetta Reply-To: tammetta@mindspring.com X-Sender: Ben Tammetta X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b1 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Free Energy anonymous FTP Server X-Priority: Normal References: <32E41CC5.1290@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------528457D26440" Resent-Message-ID: <"NA0bp3.0.Ly7.PZ5vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1606 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ------------528457D26440 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just set up an anonymous ftp server to make it easier to archive and share Free Energy information, files and graphics. There is nothing thier now, but it would be a good place to put stuff like the "Quick Field" graphics so people can refer back to them. You can access it through the web at ftp://oscar.clubelite.com/ or http://oscar.clubelite.com/ftp/ To submit information just FTP to oscar.clubelite.com. login as "anonymous" password "youremail@domain.com" and place your files into incoming. Then let others know your information is there. If others are interested i can also setup up a Free Energy web chat, so we can discuss topics in real time... as well as being able to retrieve entire chat archives. ben ben@clubelite.com ------------528457D26440 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I just set up an anonymous ftp server to make it easier to archive and share Free Energy information, files and graphics.
 
There is nothing thier now, but it would be a good place to put stuff like the "Quick Field" graphics so people can refer back to them.
 
You can access it through the web at
 
ftp://oscar.clubelite.com/
or
http://oscar.clubelite.com/ftp/
 
To submit information just FTP to oscar.clubelite.com. login as "anonymous" password "youremail@domain.com" and place your files into incoming. Then let others know your information is there.
 
If others are interested i can also setup up a Free Energy web chat, so we can discuss topics in real time... as well as being able to retrieve entire chat archives.
 
ben
 
ben@clubelite.com
 
 
------------528457D26440-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 23:53:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA24428; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:42:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:42:55 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: High Voltage Switching device for Coils (Part 1) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:42:52 GMT Message-ID: <32e97fd5.14604832@mail.zip.com.au> References: <970120052938_913278900@emout12.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <970120052938_913278900@emout12.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/16.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"a846t2.0.Yz5.-D7vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1608 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 20 Jan 1997 05:29:39 -0500 (EST), JNaudin509@aol.com wrote: _>Dear Experimenters, _>I give you in attached document (HVSW.GIF) a very usefull circuit that = I _>build recently.=20 [snip] _>BE CAREFULL, USE EXTREME CAUTION !!!, this device use High voltage, _>disconnect and discharge capacitor before touch it. Just as a suggestion, add shunt resistors (50-100k or so) across C1 and=20 C3. They won't chew up a lot of power and they WILL ensure that the capacitors will be discharged a while after the power is turned off.=20 Should make the rig a little bit safer as long as you remember the rc=20 time constant for discharge. And cut down a bit on stress of the = capacitors which you would get shorting them out while fully charged. Cheers All, Alan =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. - Michael Sinz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 20 23:56:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA21203; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:31:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:31:44 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:31:36 GMT Message-ID: <32e87cf2.13869551@mail.zip.com.au> References: <199701201634.IAA08737@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199701201634.IAA08737@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/16.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"Y5FD32.0.-A5.T37vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1607 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: How about caduceus coils? Has anyone on the list done any tinkering with them? I should imagine that they'd be a thorough=20 bitch to wind, though. Has anyone done anything much with the idea of pointing two caduceus coils at each other, feeding one with a pulse modulated signal of some flavour and getting a response out of the other one? I read somewhere that this sort of coupling IS possible but "laser-precise" alignment is needed and the setup can only work line-of-sight. Does anyone have any=20 "hard" experimental data on this sort of setup that they are willing to post? The theory was that the caduceus coil generates (and receives?) scalar waves but if this *IS* the case the line-of-sight limitation doesn't make sense to me. If the two coils are properly lined up and scalar waves are providing the coupling between them, surely the alignment would be the critical factor and the medium relatively irrelevant. Cheers All Alan =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. - Michael Sinz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 00:14:53 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA25755; Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:47:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 23:47:57 -0800 From: alansch@zip.com.au (Alan Schneider) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Please, stop *.gif publications! Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:47:32 GMT Message-ID: <32ea819b.15059226@mail.zip.com.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99g/16.339 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"j1tLq2.0.LI6.iI7vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1609 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 20 Jan 97 19:16:17 +0300, "Alexander V. Frolov" = wrote: _>People! Let us stop publish *.gif files here. IF someone is interested, _>he can ask it directly. And maybe flood the original poster's email box too. Whilst I appreciate it may be a problem for some list members, remember that a picture is often worth a thousand words. Posting relevant pics on one's web page is one good answer=20 but not everyone has or is able to set up a web page. Cheers, Alan =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D Quantum Mechanics: The Dreams that Stuff is made of. - Michael Sinz =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 03:00:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA22867; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:46:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:46:55 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970121024811.009a1cf0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:48:12 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: OU MOTOR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"9NmeU.0.Db5.Tw9vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1611 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You can get all of the answers from the horse's mouth The inventor's phone number is 504-644-4783. The TV station was WBRZ in Baton Rouge at 504-387-2222 or 504-336-2338 sells video tapes of the news broadcast where the motor was featured for $35. (just give them the time of the broadcast) Call him, what do you have to loose. 10 cents a minute ? At 06:31 PM 1/20/97 EST, you wrote: >Anyway, please let me know if you have any more info. on this. > >Thanks, >Glenn Hinton > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 03:00:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA21120; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:40:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:40:12 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970121024126.0099e060@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 02:41:27 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bshannon@tiac.net From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"IBVgM.0.w95.Bq9vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1610 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:55 PM 1/20/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: > > > >> If you mean shunted as in a diode that is usually used in relays to prevent >> the high voltage pulse than this diode will only prolong the coil's current >> decay by lowering the coil circuit resistance. > >Minor point, but as R drops, should'nt the discharge get shorter, not >longer? No. As the R decreases the time of the coil discharge increases and the voltage decreases. t=L/R This is why opening of the coil (this means raising the R very high) discharges the coil energy in the form of extremely short high voltage pulse. If we kept the R at zero the coil would never discharge and the current in it would flow forever. >The diode prevents the back EMF from messing with the coil driver by >shorting the coil, not by lenghtening the discharge. Shorting the coil means keeping the R low and this lengthens the discharge time and the voltage is kept low. The diode acts as a low R path for the current coil. The disadvantage of this diode is that it takes a long time for the coil to deenergize and this is a problem in relays if you want the to turn them off very quickly (ie. the diode keeps the relay attracted even after the power supply to the coil is turned off). If the R was kept high (as in open circuit) the discharge time would be extremely short and the relay would turn off virtually immediately after the power to the coil was turned off (this would produce a high voltage pulse though) BTW: The current in the coil does NOT reverse direction when the power supply is turned off and NEITHER does the polarity of the magnetic field produced by the coil. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 06:56:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA22398; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:28:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 06:28:46 -0800 Message-ID: <32E48C38.737E@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:28:24 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Gravity Waves?? References: <970120200837_1691917378@emout02.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a0vsW3.0.qT5.QADvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1612 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>It's often hard to remember that gravity is one of the weakest forces, > although one of the most stubborn.>>> > > What does that have to do with it? There theoretical energy is very small, > just because they are "stubborn" doesn't make the small energy become very > large! Wait! If that were true, stubborness could be a form of free energy! > Yay! > -Adam Grossman The point is that many people assume gravity is a powerful force due to the long ranges at which it can operate, and the massive scale of it's effects in the universe. This makes it ironic to many that gravity as a force, is so weak, yet our ability to engineer it is nearly zero. It has nothing to do with making the energy become large. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 08:31:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA31710; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:15:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 07:15:52 -0800 Message-ID: <32E49748.44CD@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:15:36 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. References: <199701201634.IAA08737@claim.goldrush.com> <32e87cf2.13869551@mail.zip.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sPZ-Z.0.Ol7.csDvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1613 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alan Schneider wrote: > > How about caduceus coils? Has anyone on the list done any > tinkering with them? I should imagine that they'd be a thorough > bitch to wind, though. Indeed these are very difficult to wind, and very small imperfections will cause a lot of EM leakage. I only know of one associate who can wind these coils with any claim to skill at the art. > Has anyone done anything much with the idea of pointing > two caduceus coils at each other, feeding one with a pulse > modulated signal of some flavour and getting a response out > of the other one? I read somewhere that this sort of coupling > IS possible but "laser-precise" alignment is needed and the > setup can only work line-of-sight. Does anyone have any > "hard" experimental data on this sort of setup that they are > willing to post? Yes, This was described on Keelynet I beleive. >From the standpoint of scalar translation, the caduceus coil suffers from greater EM leakage than a properly constructed bifilar coil. This seems to be due to the lower ratio of conductor size to inter conductor spacing, and lower mutual inducatance. I am aware of experimentation that attempted to duplicate the line of sight communications described in the original document (where walki talkie's were used as tranceivers), but this work was performed with commercial signal generators and EMI receivers. I assisted in only a small fraction of this work, so I will have to check with the researcher envolved to be sure about all the results, but my current understanding is that no such effect was detected. > The theory was that the caduceus coil generates (and receives?) > scalar waves but if this *IS* the case the line-of-sight limitation > doesn't make sense to me. If the two coils are properly lined > up and scalar waves are providing the coupling between them, > surely the alignment would be the critical factor and the medium > relatively irrelevant. If I recall the original article correctly, the medium was irrelevant so long as alignment was maintained. This 'alignment' issue makes me wonder though. Scalar waves are claimed not to drop off at the square of the distance, which is the rate at which a sphearical wave front grows in area. This is a correct model for a 3D wave propogating in free space, and matches the actual performance of EM dipole emitters. If our wave propogation was confined to a 2D surface, like ripples on the surface of a pond, the area of the wave front grows in direct proportion to the distance. In all cases, the area of the wave grows at R^(N-1) where N is the number of degrees of freedom the wave propogates in. If a scalar wave has a higher dimensionality than EM waves (3D, R^2), then it's 'propogation' (this quickly becomes the wrong word!) will not resemble linear 'laser like' propogation, hence the concept of directionality (3D) has limited applicability to 4D or higher wave behavior. It may appear that the scalar 'wave' is produced in one location, and it's effects appear in another while the 'wave' itself does not occupy the linear space between 'source' and 'destination'. This seems at odds with the concept of a longitudinal wave, which would clearly occupy the linear space between source and destination, but we must see that this concept of a longitudinal wave is strictly a 3D structure, and ommits any higher dimensionalites within the structure of that wave. So in reality, it is not quite so simple as tugging on a rope rather than waving one end up and down to make transverse or longitudinal waves. A detector for such waves may have a prefered axis of detection in 3 space, but this is not a function of the waves actual 'propogation' at all. The Barkhausen Effect detector indeed does have a prefered axis of detection, but the scalar pulse generator has no 'axis of propogation' at all. That's just not how it works it seems. EM radiators are made directional by cancelation of hte radiation in undesired directions, which then re-enforces the radiation in the intended directions, hence we have 'gain' in the antenna. On the scalar side of the coin, things are quite different. If we canacel emission in some axis, the result is EM radiation. If the potnetial used to generate the scalar wave can find an EM expression, the potential will yeild EM with mass in motion, and there will be no scalar production at all. This is why the bifilar coil, with it's higher mutual inductance and EM cancelation appears to perform better than the caduceus coil. Any EM leakage can prevent scalar production. A potential seeks lower dimensionalities of expression just as current seeks a path of lesser resistance. This is only a restatement of early Beraden. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 09:38:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA02975 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:35:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:35:34 -0800 X-Envelope-From: mmans@aeneas.net Tue Jan 21 09:33:03 1997 Received: from main.aeneas.net (root@main.aeneas.net [207.65.48.23]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA02323 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:32:35 -0800 Received: from ut2048.utm.edu (ut2048.utm.edu [192.239.147.166]) by main.aeneas.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25164 for ; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:37:40 -0600 Message-ID: <32E50967.597D@aeneas.net> Old-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:22:31 -0600 From: Mark Mansfield X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrets References: <199701201627.IAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > electrets is used in some microphones. But for o/u experiments it is > necessary to produce it youself. There was a Amatuer Scientist article in Scientific American some years back on how to charge your own. If anyone would like me to look up the Year and Month, let me know. Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 09:57:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA28610; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:10:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:10:16 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <199701201627.IAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 19:27:20 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Electrets Lines: 14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6L4E6.0.n-6.mXFvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1614 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Electrostatical analog for permanent magnet are so called electrets, i.e. dielectrical materials are polarized by strong electric field and this polarization is constant. After the external field is removed, electret produce constant electric field around of it. It can be used to make power free if some metal plate is moving in this field and it would be periodically charged by influence of this electret. Sorry, but all research and production on electrets is classified. Small amounts of electrets is used in some microphones. But for o/u experiments it is necessary to produce it youself. --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 10:39:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA11709; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:12:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:12:29 -0800 Message-ID: <32E4BECF.572B@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:04:15 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrets References: <199701201627.IAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t2dgT3.0.Bp2.XQGvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1618 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Electrostatical analog for permanent magnet are so called electrets, > i.e. dielectrical materials are polarized by strong electric field > and this polarization is constant. After the external field is removed, > electret produce constant electric field around of it. It can be used > to make power free if some metal plate is moving in this field and it > would be periodically charged by influence of this electret. Sorry, but > all research and production on electrets is classified. Small amounts of > electrets is used in some microphones. But for o/u experiments it is > necessary to produce it youself. > > --- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 It seems to me that I read something about Barium Meta Titianite, where an exceptionally strong electret form was easily produced. I think this information is available in the US. I suspect that electrets would best serve in over unity devices as the source of potential, which could then be translated from pure potential form into real energy. Could the potential alone be used to excite orbital electrons, which would decay to lower orbits once the potential was removed, and thereby liberate free photons or electrons by exophonton or exoelectron emission? If so the only energy needed would be to switch the potnetial on and off the atoms that convert potential into actual energy. If we move metal in proximity to an electret, will we get more energy than is needed to move the metal? I doubt this. How would an electret and metal (with relative motion) differ from a magnet and coil? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 10:41:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA08343; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:58:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:58:58 -0800 From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:44:33 -0500 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: References: <199701201634.IAA08737@claim.goldrush.com> <32e87cf2.13869551@mail.zip.com.au> <32E49748.44CD@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <32E49748.44CD@tiac.net> Lines: 319 Resent-Message-ID: <"iX6vy3.0.p-1.hDGvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1616 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Indeed these are very difficult to wind, and very small imperfections >will cause a lot of EM leakage. I only know of one associate who can >wind these coils with any claim to skill at the art. I've seen an ad for one commercial company that specializes in percsion coil winding applications for things like this. I've never called them because I don't have the $ to pay for their services but if some one does I'll dig up the address and post it to the list here. >> of the other one? I read somewhere that this sort of coupling >> IS possible but "laser-precise" alignment is needed and the >> setup can only work line-of-sight. Does anyone have any >> "hard" experimental data on this sort of setup that they are >> willing to post? > >Yes, This was described on Keelynet I beleive. I beleive this is the file in question: (word processor parameters LM=8, RM=75, TM=2, BM=2) Taken from KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 Sponsored by Vangard Sciences PO BOX 1031 Mesquite, TX 75150 There are ABSOLUTELY NO RESTRICTIONS on duplicating, publishing or distributing the files on KeelyNet! June 23, 1991 SCALAR2. -------------------------------------------------------------------- 04/01/88 #38 [Added more supporting references.] Original posting 04/01/87 Does any one have any ideas one how to make an omni-directional longitudinal scalar wave Receiver & Transmitter? In contrast to the common Hertzian transverse vector waves, scalar waves travel, or rather materialize at the receiving end, at superluminal velocities. Scalar waves also quite effectively penetrate trough objects, such as a Faraday Shield, which would stop an ordinary electromagnetic (Hertzian type) wave. Shown below is a simple directional, (If there is such a thing as being 'too' directional, this system is it!), scalar wave generator/detector. What I am looking for is a system that doesn't require LASER like beam alignment. Any one have any ideas? Caduceus or "Tensor" Coil _____ / / <-- Ferrite rod [This ASCII drawing does . / .. / not do the Caduceus . .' . Ordinary insulated copper justice.] * . /. wire is wound in a double . / ./ . helix configuration around . ./ . . a ferrite core. . /. /* '' . . / .' This coil has a cancelling .' ' ./ .' effect of the magnetic . * / ' . .' fields at the "*" nodes, . . '/*' due to the opposing magnetic ./ . /. fields summing to zero. The / ./ nodes MUST lie along a / . ' straight line. . / /. ' Once the magnetic field is . . / / . ' cancelled, you are left with a . . /'.* field of pure potential. This '*/. /. field will have a longitudinal ' / . / scalar wave pattern. ' / . ' /. This field will be a narrow threadlike . / ' / . beam parallel to the cylindrical axis. . . '/ . . . /* By precise physical alignment of two Caduceus '/ ./ ' coils, one as transmitter and the other as a / ' '/'' receiver, you can send signals that can't be /____/ . detected on a standard Hertzian type radio ' . receiver. ' . ' .This receiver/transmitter combination is limited ' . to line-of-sight, I.E., until the curvature of ' . the planet causes the transmitted signal to ' . 'over-shoot' the receiver. \ / \ / Pulse-Frequency-(De)Modulation See Popular Electronics August 1980, PG 94 & 95, for a simple PFM Modulator/Demodulator. Tune the carrier frequency so that it falls in the "Experimenters band" of 160 to 180 Kilo-Cycles. [Note : By definition Hertzian type waves are transverse vector waves. So the units used when referring to scalar waves should be given in the old form of Cycles-Per-Second (Kilocycles, KC or Mega-Cycles, MC), to prevent confusion.] Just for the fun of it, try to measure the impedance, and inductance, of the Caduceus coil, and find its natural resonant frequencies. -------------------------------------------------------------------- References: 1) "Toward A New Electromagnetic Reality (Part 2 of 3)" By Donald Reed. Energy Unlimited #15. (The Smith-Killick Tensor Coil pg 10 & 11) 2) "Energy Unlimited's Coil Research" By Walter P. Baumgartner. Energy Unlimited #22 (Pg 35) 3) "Gravity Field Simulator" By Walter P. Baumgartner. Energy Unlimited #22 (Pg 13- 16) 4) "OP-AMP Circuit Detects Gravity Signal" By G. Hodowanec. Radio-Electronics, April 1986 5) "Rhysmonic Cosmology" By G. Hodowanec. Self-published 6) "The Awesome Life Force" By Joseph H. Cater. Health Research (Chapter 21) 7) "STAR WARS NOW! The Bohm-Aharonov Effect, Scalar Interferometry, and Soviet Weaponization" By T. E. Bearden. Tesla Book Company (All) 8) Experimenter's Corner: "The Digital Phase-Locked Loop (Part 2)" By Forrest M. Mims. Popular Electronics. (Pg 94 & 95) 9) "Electrons And Conduction: Not So Simple After All": pg 21; "Lorentz No Longer Gives Answers Ampere's Theory Holds Clues to Current Problem": pg 22, by Chappell Brown, Electronic Engineering Times, Monday, December 28, 1987 10) "Soviet Research On Unified Field Theories, False Vacuum States, and Antigravity (U)" -- Capt. Robert M. Collins (TQTR), 06/11/1986 11) "Soviet Research On The A-Vector Potential and Scalar Waves (U)" -- Capt. Robert M. Collins (TQTR), 12/8/1986 12) "The Manual Of Free Energy Devices and Systems" by D. A. Kelly, contains "Scalar Electromagnetics: A Quick Overview" by T. E. Bearden 13) "Tesla's Secret and The Soviet Tesla Weapons (Part I of II)" by T. E. Bearden, in Energy Unlimited Fall 1981, #11. 14) "Tesla's Secret and The Soviet Tesla Weapons (Part II of II)" by T. E. Bearden, in Energy Unlimited Winter 1981, #12. 15) "How To Build A Flying Saucer And Other Proposals in Speculative Engineering" by T. B. Pawlicki 16) US Patent #4,204,212 "Conformal Spiral Antenna", patent rights have been assigned to the US Army. [One of these suckers looks a lot like what I just described!] 17) NASA Tech Brief July 1968: "Moebius Resistor Is Noninductive and Nonreactive" and US Patent 3,267,406 8/16/1966 by Richard L. Davis: "Non-Inductive Electrical Resistor" -------------------------------------------------------------------- If you have comments or other information relating to such topics as this paper covers, please upload to KeelyNet or send to the Vangard Sciences address as listed on the first page. Thank you for your consideration, interest and support. Jerry W. Decker.........Ron Barker...........Chuck Henderson Vangard Sciences/KeelyNet -------------------------------------------------------------------- If we can be of service, you may contact Jerry at (214) 324-8741 [took out Ron's #] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Page 4 >>From the standpoint of scalar translation, the caduceus coil suffers >from greater EM leakage than a properly constructed bifilar coil. This >seems to be due to the lower ratio of conductor size to inter conductor >spacing, and lower mutual inducatance. > >I am aware of experimentation that attempted to duplicate the line of >sight communications described in the original document (where walki >talkie's were used as tranceivers), but this work was performed with >commercial signal generators and EMI receivers. > >I assisted in only a small fraction of this work, so I will have to >check with the researcher envolved to be sure about all the results, but >my current understanding is that no such effect was detected. > >> The theory was that the caduceus coil generates (and receives?) >> scalar waves but if this *IS* the case the line-of-sight limitation >> doesn't make sense to me. If the two coils are properly lined >> up and scalar waves are providing the coupling between them, >> surely the alignment would be the critical factor and the medium >> relatively irrelevant. > >If I recall the original article correctly, the medium was irrelevant so >long as alignment was maintained. > >This 'alignment' issue makes me wonder though. > >Scalar waves are claimed not to drop off at the square of the distance, >which is the rate at which a sphearical wave front grows in area. This >is a correct model for a 3D wave propogating in free space, and matches >the actual performance of EM dipole emitters. > >If our wave propogation was confined to a 2D surface, like ripples on >the surface of a pond, the area of the wave front grows in direct >proportion to the distance. > >In all cases, the area of the wave grows at R^(N-1) where N is the >number of degrees of freedom the wave propogates in. > >If a scalar wave has a higher dimensionality than EM waves (3D, R^2), >then it's 'propogation' (this quickly becomes the wrong word!) will not >resemble linear 'laser like' propogation, hence the concept of >directionality (3D) has limited applicability to 4D or higher wave >behavior. > >It may appear that the scalar 'wave' is produced in one location, and >it's effects appear in another while the 'wave' itself does not occupy >the linear space between 'source' and 'destination'. This seems at odds >with the concept of a longitudinal wave, which would clearly occupy the >linear space between source and destination, but we must see that this >concept of a longitudinal wave is strictly a 3D structure, and ommits >any higher dimensionalites within the structure of that wave. > >So in reality, it is not quite so simple as tugging on a rope rather >than waving one end up and down to make transverse or longitudinal >waves. > >A detector for such waves may have a prefered axis of detection in 3 >space, but this is not a function of the waves actual 'propogation' at >all. The Barkhausen Effect detector indeed does have a prefered axis of >detection, but the scalar pulse generator has no 'axis of propogation' >at all. That's just not how it works it seems. > >EM radiators are made directional by cancelation of hte radiation in >undesired directions, which then re-enforces the radiation in the >intended directions, hence we have 'gain' in the antenna. > >On the scalar side of the coin, things are quite different. > >If we canacel emission in some axis, the result is EM radiation. If the >potnetial used to generate the scalar wave can find an EM expression, >the potential will yeild EM with mass in motion, and there will be no >scalar production at all. > >This is why the bifilar coil, with it's higher mutual inductance and EM >cancelation appears to perform better than the caduceus coil. Any EM >leakage can prevent scalar production. > >A potential seeks lower dimensionalities of expression just as current >seeks a path of lesser resistance. This is only a restatement of early >Beraden. > -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 10:41:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA09067; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:01:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:01:39 -0800 Message-ID: <32E4BC5A.58CF@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:53:46 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970121024126.0099e060@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BEUQu1.0.fA2.KGGvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1617 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > At 04:55 PM 1/20/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Epitaxy wrote: > > > > > > > >> If you mean shunted as in a diode that is usually used in relays to prevent > >> the high voltage pulse than this diode will only prolong the coil's current > >> decay by lowering the coil circuit resistance. > > > >Minor point, but as R drops, should'nt the discharge get shorter, not > >longer? > > No. As the R decreases the time of the coil discharge increases and the > voltage decreases. t=L/R Right! I was thinking RC rather than LR, thanks. (Brain malfunction eh,well, it will have to come out!) > Shorting the coil means keeping the R low and this lengthens the discharge > time and the voltage is kept low. The diode acts as a low R path for the > current coil. The disadvantage of this diode is that it takes a long time > for the coil to deenergize and this is a problem in relays if you want the > to turn them off very quickly (ie. the diode keeps the relay attracted even > after the power supply to the coil is turned off). If the R was kept high > (as in open circuit) the discharge time would be extremely short and the > relay would turn off virtually immediately after the power to the coil was > turned off (this would produce a high voltage pulse though) Agreed, but my point was that the diode prevents the back EMF from flowing through the driver. Too high current can fry the driver just as well as well as too high a voltage. The diode keeps the energy out of the driver in any case. If the field falls fast and a higher voltage is induced, or falls slowly and a high current flows, the total energy delivered from the field is exactly that stored in the field, and never more. Which brings us to: If we change the inductance of the coil, say with the approach of a ferrite core, the inductance will change. If this core approaches and enters the coil while we build the field, the rate at which the energy if the field increases will drop as the inductance rises. So the rate at which energy is stored in the field will not be constant as the core aproaches! Even though the inductance increases while building the field, there is no extra energy stored in the field after the core enters once this change in the rate of energy storage in the field is accounted for. Using the indutance of the coil before, or after the core enters the coil will not produce the correct total field energy. We have to integrate the change in inductance and subsequent change is field energy over the time the core approaches to know the total energy stored in the field. This seems rather tricky. Do any math wizzards out there have the correct formula? It would seem that we have three major factors: The rate of energy storage in the field of the coil is not constant. The inductance of the coil is not fixed as the field builds. There will be some energy exchange between the moving core and the growing field. This seems to suggest that non-linearity from altering the inductance is quite different than a truly non-linear magnetic material in it's supercritical state. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 10:43:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA05849; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:47:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:47:46 -0800 Message-ID: <32E50B3F.3789@utm.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:30:23 -0600 From: Mark Mansfield X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrets References: <199701201627.IAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nNQED.0.KO1.93Gvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1615 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > electrets is used in some microphones. But for o/u experiments it is > necessary to produce it youself. There was a Amatuer Scientist article in Scientific American some years back on how to charge your own. If anyone would like me to look up the Year and Month, let me know. Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 12:46:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA10707; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:55:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:55:01 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970121115405.009a1918@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:54:07 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bshannon@tiac.net From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jt_Xs3.0.sa2.fxHvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1620 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:53 PM 1/21/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> At 04:55 PM 1/20/97 +0000, you wrote: >> >Epitaxy wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >> If you mean shunted as in a diode that is usually used in relays to prevent >> >> the high voltage pulse than this diode will only prolong the coil's current >> >> decay by lowering the coil circuit resistance. >> > >> >Minor point, but as R drops, should'nt the discharge get shorter, not >> >longer? >> >> No. As the R decreases the time of the coil discharge increases and the >> voltage decreases. t=L/R > >Right! I was thinking RC rather than LR, thanks. (Brain malfunction >eh,well, it will have to come out!) > >> Shorting the coil means keeping the R low and this lengthens the discharge >> time and the voltage is kept low. The diode acts as a low R path for the >> current coil. The disadvantage of this diode is that it takes a long time >> for the coil to deenergize and this is a problem in relays if you want the >> to turn them off very quickly (ie. the diode keeps the relay attracted even >> after the power supply to the coil is turned off). If the R was kept high >> (as in open circuit) the discharge time would be extremely short and the >> relay would turn off virtually immediately after the power to the coil was >> turned off (this would produce a high voltage pulse though) > >Agreed, but my point was that the diode prevents the back EMF from >flowing through the driver. Too high current can fry the driver just as >well as well as too high a voltage. The diode keeps the energy out of >the driver in any case. Yes the diode does keep the current from flowing through the driver. However if the driver's resistance does not change the current through the driver during the "back" EMF is the same as during the time the driver was supplying the current. The only problem with deenergizing the driver occurs if the driver cannot sink current (most drivers can only source current). If the driver's resistance is constant then the driver will NOT experience higher current and will not be damaged by the higher current alone. (relative current polarity or HV are the problems) >If the field falls fast and a higher voltage is induced, or falls slowly >and a high current flows, the total energy delivered from the field is >exactly that stored in the field, and never more. Yes. >Which brings us to: > >If we change the inductance of the coil, say with the approach of a >ferrite core, the inductance will change. If this core approaches and >enters the coil while we build the field, the rate at which the energy >if the field increases will drop as the inductance rises. So the rate >at which energy is stored in the field will not be constant as the core >aproaches! I agree. The change of inductance WHILE building up the field will change the rate of energy increase. >Even though the inductance increases while building the field, there is >no extra energy stored in the field after the core enters once this >change in the rate of energy storage in the field is accounted for. Most likely you are correct although Osamu Ide's experiment showed discrepancies from the theory in this case. >Using the indutance of the coil before, or after the core enters the >coil will not produce the correct total field energy. We have to >integrate the change in inductance and subsequent change is field energy >over the time the core approaches to know the total energy stored in the >field. BUT what if we perform a mental exercise and allow the core to approach the coil AFTER the coil has already "built up" the maximum desired current and field intensity. This way no inductance change occurs WHILE the coil is "charging up". If we now allow the core to be attracted by the coil and recover the stored energy, WILL the amount of the recovered energy be the same as the amount spent during the "charge up" process ? (neglecting the R losses). Osamu Ide's experiment seems to confirm that this indeed is true. >This seems rather tricky. Do any math wizzards out there have the >correct formula? Yes this is very tricky, that is why I prefer to keep the inductance of the coil constant while the coil is charging up (by not allowing the ferrite core to approach). This eliminates all of the messy integration over time vs. distance issue. >It would seem that we have three major factors: > >The rate of energy storage in the field of the coil is not constant. This remains to be determined. >The inductance of the coil is not fixed as the field builds. True, if the core is allowed to be attracted >There will be some energy exchange between the moving core and the >growing field. Perhaps, but I don't understand what would be the principle of this energy exchange ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 12:47:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA15542; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:07:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:07:41 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970121120756.0099f560@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:07:57 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bshannon@tiac.net, gwatson@enternet.com.au, harti@bbtt.de From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: DNMEC mechanical equivalent ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"AufR13.0.Ro3.-7Ivo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1621 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: BTW: did you notice the similarities in the (mechanical only) setup of the PM Motor .AVI animation I sent you, and Greg's DNMEC theory. In my mechanical example, the twisting of the two magnet halfs could be equaled to the charging and discharging of the coil in Greg's DNMEC example. If the mechanical setup was perfect the energy gained from the twist of the two magnet halfs would be the same as the energy necessary to twist the halfs back into place. Unfortunately the approach of the ferrite core may decrease the energy gained from the twisting halfs. If the analogy between the twisting magnets and a coil is valid than we would expect the energy recovered from the coil to be affected by the approaching ferrite the same way the two twisting magnet halfs are affected. Interesting, heh ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >Here is another PM motor idea to tease your brain >This is just an idea to muse and criticize. Please feel free to comment about it in any way you want. > >I am including an .AVI animation of this motor. PLEASE set your .AVI player to AUTO REPEAT (or LOOP) for the best viewing effect ! > > >THE PRINCIPLE > >If a magnet is cut in half the magnetic forces will rotate the two halfs of the magnet 180 degrees, by themselves. Like this: > > >(One solid magnet) > >NNNNSSSS >NNNNSSSS > > >(Cut the magnet in half like this) > >NNNNSSSS > >NNNNSSSS > > >(The two halfs rotate by themselves like this) > >NNNNSSSS >SSSSNNNN > > > >When these two halfs rotate by themselves they do perform WORK. > >It follows that it would be necessary to perform exactly the same amount of work in order to get the halfs rotated BACK to the starting position. > >Also please notice that the UNcut magnet attracts an iron plate like this > > F >NNNNSSSS F >NNNNSSSS F > F > >However after the magnet is cut and allowed to rotate it no longer attracts the iron plate (actually in real world there is some flux leakage) > > > F >NNNNSSSS F >SSSSNNNN F > F > > >Thus an overunity perpetual permanent magnet motor can be created by exploiting the above phenomena. > > >1) Magnet is cut in half but not allowed to rotate > >2) Magnet attracts an iron rotor > >3) When the rotor is fully attracted to the magnet the two magnet halfs are allowed to rotate > >4) The rotation of the two magnet halfs cancels the magnet's attraction on the iron plate > >5) The work performed by the two rotating magnet halfs is stored (ie. by lifting a weight) > >6) The iron rotor is now free to escape this neutralized magnet unimpeded (no backdrag) > >7) When the rotor has traveled 180 degrees the energy stored in #5 is used to rotate the two magnet halfs BACK into the same position as in #1. This completes the circle. > > >At the end we are left with increased kinetic energy of the rotor. > > > >The only question is whether the energy stored in #5 is sufficient to rotate the two magnet's halfs BACK into the position of #1. It can be safely said that energies in #5 and #7 are THE SAME if the rotor does not weaken the attraction that rotates the two magnet halfs. Does it ? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 12:50:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA26940; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:36:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:36:48 -0800 Message-ID: <32E4E27A.E69@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:36:26 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970121115405.009a1918@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OfX7M3.0.Ia6.QZIvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1622 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > Yes the diode does keep the current from flowing through the driver. > However if the driver's resistance does not change the current through the > driver during the "back" EMF is the same as during the time the driver was > supplying the current. The only problem with deenergizing the driver > occurs if the driver cannot sink current (most drivers can only source > current). If the driver's resistance is constant then the driver will NOT > experience higher current and will not be damaged by the higher current > alone. (relative current polarity or HV are the problems) Drivers resistance? I dont see this as a factor here, only the rate of change in the falling field. > >Even though the inductance increases while building the field, there is > >no extra energy stored in the field after the core enters once this > >change in the rate of energy storage in the field is accounted for. > > Most likely you are correct although Osamu Ide's experiment showed > discrepancies from the theory in this case. I've not read the orignal material, I had thougt from another posting that Ide-sans work was with opposed magnets. Where is the orignal work? > BUT what if we perform a mental exercise and allow the core to approach the > coil AFTER the coil has already "built up" the maximum desired current and > field intensity. This way no inductance change occurs WHILE the coil is > "charging up". If we now allow the core to be attracted by the coil and > recover the stored energy, WILL the amount of the recovered energy be the > same as the amount spent during the "charge up" process ? (neglecting the > R losses). Osamu Ide's experiment seems to confirm that this indeed is true. Again, I need to see the original work. As the core approaches, inductance goes up, but stored energy also? What about the energy used to align the domains within the core material? What about the kenetic energy of the approach of the coil? This might not be much more simple than the core approaching while the field is building. It seems it may still be imortnat to integrate the energy over time. > Yes this is very tricky, that is why I prefer to keep the inductance of the > coil constant while the coil is charging up (by not allowing the ferrite > core to approach). This eliminates all of the messy integration over time > vs. distance issue. Question, is the coil current held constant while this core approaches? If not, and the core 'pops' into the coil increasing inductance, additional current will flow and raise the total energy. You still need to integrate the total energy over time as the core approaches. > >There will be some energy exchange between the moving core and the > >growing field. > > Perhaps, but I don't understand what would be the principle of this energy > exchange ? If we moved the core into and out of a coil carrying AC current to a load, we would modulate the energy delivered to that load. Where is the energy used in this modulation process comming from? From the kenetic energy of the core movement! So we do see actual exchange of energy between mechanical motion of a core and the currents in that coil. Any mechanical motion of a magentic material in a magentic field will exchange mechanical energy with that field. If the core is attracted, it takes energy from the coil, right? Is this not where the energy for the acceleration of the core is comming from? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 13:22:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA30356; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:48:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:48:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32E4E54F.4A89@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:48:31 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DNMEC mechanical equivalent ? References: <3.0.32.19970121120756.0099f560@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"peV9U1.0.AQ7.qkIvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1623 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > BTW: did you notice the similarities in the (mechanical only) setup of the > PM Motor .AVI animation I sent you, and Greg's DNMEC theory. > > In my mechanical example, the twisting of the two magnet halfs could be > equaled to the charging and discharging of the coil in Greg's DNMEC example. > > If the mechanical setup was perfect the energy gained from the twist of the > two magnet halfs would be the same as the energy necessary to twist the > halfs back into place. There is no such 'perfect' mechanical setup, so we have departed from reality here. There is a reason we have losses, and this has not been addressed by this design. So right off the starting block, this approach cannot make unity, much less over unity. > Unfortunately the approach of the ferrite core may decrease the energy > gained from the twisting halfs. Yes, you cannot twist the halfs, and then have attraction. The attraction will begin AS the halves are turned, not after the rotation is completed. So there will be coupling between the rotation itself and the attraction. Step by step methods miss many real effects such as this. There is also the fact that the plate will exchange energy as it moves away from the magnets. You can work to reduce this energy, but it will not be zero. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 13:53:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA04348; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:17:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:17:42 -0800 Message-ID: <32E530BB.49CC@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:40:19 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Movement, Force & Energy. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vR7PY1.0.j31.o9Jvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1624 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Several readers have informed me of my apparent errors in suggesting that work is being done if NO movement occurs. The classic formula is E=1/2MV^2. This suggests that the mass must been seen to change it's velocity (movement) before we will accept that work has been done against it. I suggest that the pivotal word here is "seen". If we were traveling aboard a rocket ship which was accelerating at 32ft/sec^2, we would feel no movement, only our normal 1G gravity field. If we had a brick resting on a table, we know it has weight. We also know that if the brick doesn't move, NO work is being done against it according to the above equation. If however, we view the rocket ship from earth, we get a very different picture. We see the brick being accelerated at 32ft/sec^2 and have no problem in understanding that work is being done against it. If we stopped the ship's motors and acceleration ceased, it would become very apparent to the onboard observer what was happening. Seems that a simple definition of work is limited by the viewers perspective. Are we still so sure a lack of movement means that no work is being done? -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 14:34:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA09922; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:38:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:38:44 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:37:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970121163650_203117407@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: OU MOTOR Resent-Message-ID: <"i4Uia3.0.tQ2.RTJvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1625 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Call him, what do you have to loose. 10 cents a minute ?>>> Actually, it's not ALWAYS 10 cents a minute...don't you watch those AT&T adds? Sheeesh! :) -Adam GRossman From freenrg-l-request@ESKIMO.COM Tue Jan 21 15:00:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA23322; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:52:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:52:51 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 12:46:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701211846.MAA04754@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@ESKIMO.COM Subject: Re: Electrets Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"EUbHs.0.me5.f0Hvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@ESKIMO.COM X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1619 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@ESKIMO.COM Status: O X-Status: > >Electrostatical analog for permanent magnet are so called electrets, >i.e. dielectrical materials are polarized by strong electric field >and this polarization is constant. After the external field is removed, >electret produce constant electric field around of it. It can be used >to make power free if some metal plate is moving in this field and it >would be periodically charged by influence of this electret. Sorry, but >all research and production on electrets is classified. Small amounts of >electrets is used in some microphones. But for o/u experiments it is >necessary to produce it youself. > > >--- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 > > I remember seeing an article about producing electrets in your own oven in Popular Electronics some years ago. I'll see if I can dig it out. They are quite popular in high-quality headphones. Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 15:58:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA12104; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:36:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:36:28 -0800 Message-ID: <32E57144.340@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:45:40 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: W.Lambertson? References: <199701201627.IAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XU5yC3.0.4y2.WBLvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Wes! Well, intriguing post as you mentioned in our conversation last night....yep, I copied it off and will have to try that. There is a catalog (name I can't remember) which advertises information on electret batteries, but yours is the first I've seen where it was spelled out. The advertisement said some people were able to get substantial power (enough to drive a home) with stacks of these....thanks for posting it! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 19:26:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA03344; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:58:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:58:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:01:41 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970121205712.1abfa9f0@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Idea for building gravity wave detector Resent-Message-ID: <"wYwhB.0.lp.19Ovo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1630 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:29 PM 1/18/97 -0500, you wrote: > I sent the idea about gravity post. I don't really know much about the >theory of relativity, but if I'm right we should be able to build an >antenna to receive and amplify this gravity waves in a very simple manner. > The idea I had was to make a pyramid like antenna with the centroid of >this connected to a crystal phono needle then if any oscillations occur in >the incoming wave I may be able to pick them up and amplify them from the >needle. > > Does this sound even remotely do-able? YES: However you may see mor with a good scope and RF amp. I have this equipment and have ben looking for a method of receiving G-waves. I might suggest that a flat or disk shape wold be needed to acheve the 90 degree angel, and the coil wound in a spirole one layer thick. Dificult bud let,s give it a whirel. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 19:27:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA03546; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:59:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:59:14 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:02:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970121205802.1abf3dda@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Idea for building gravity wave detector Resent-Message-ID: <"tBg_U2.0.-s.m9Ovo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1631 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:30 AM 1/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >>>>>The idea I had was to make a pyramid like antenna with the centroid of >this connected to a crystal phono needle then if any oscillations occur in >the incoming wave I may be able to pick them up and amplify them from the >needle.>>>> > >The trouble is that gravity waves are WAY to small to ever be detected by >something that small. Any background EM radiation (That is all around us) >would have a much much greater effect on the crystal than any gravity waves. >The gravity waves detectors that they have now are burried deep underground >and are huge gigantic tanks of a liquid (some times water). And there are >pressure sensors along the sides. If any incoming gravity waves efftect the >liquid, the sensors should pick it up. This is alot like how they try to >detect nutrinos as well. >-Adam Grossman > This method receives MECHANICAL effect of gravity wave not the wave itself, What we are looking for here is the EM content of gravity IF it exists. There shuld be a tremondos amount of energy avaliable providing the condition is not static. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 19:27:17 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA03717; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:00:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:00:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:03:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970121205859.1abf3102@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Gravity Waves?? Resent-Message-ID: <"Ayn-W1.0.iv.eAOvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1634 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:08 PM 1/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >>>>It's often hard to remember that gravity is one of the weakest forces, >although one of the most stubborn.>>> > >What does that have to do with it? There theoretical energy is very small, >just because they are "stubborn" doesn't make the small energy become very >large! Wait! If that were true, stubborness could be a form of free energy! >Yay! >-Adam Grossman > At least its reliable From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 19:27:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA03631; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:59:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:59:31 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:03:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970121205832.1abf3102@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! Resent-Message-ID: <"i6547.0.Ou.2AOvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1633 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:19 PM 1/20/97 +0300, you wrote: ><"free". Any comments? >< > >If output 40 Watts is more than input 6 watts you have 34 Watts free. >Take my congrulations! > > >--- > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > Tel:7-812-2747877 > Correction: 40W lamp does not mean 40W visible light emmision, floresent lighting has verry poor efficency in visible wavelengths, not as poor as incondesent This device aproches 100% but is not over. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 19:27:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA03600; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:59:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:59:22 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:02:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970121205818.1abfa81e@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils Resent-Message-ID: <"pX0OA2.0.Xt.v9Ovo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1632 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:12 AM 1/19/97 -0900, you wrote: >At 8:07 PM 1/19/97, Greg Watson wrote: >[snip] >> >>The simulation tends to indicated that bifilar coils will still >>have inductance, due to the ferrite domains just below each wire, >>aligning to the wires induced field, but the inductance will be much >>lower than a coil wound in the normal way due to the total bulk of the >>ferrite not being able to align its domains in a common way. >> >>Comments? > What farrite? These are AIR core coils. The oposing windings are traced directly next-too eachother. The end effect is this. The inductance cancels at only 50% efficency due to distance between the oposing conductors [touching still has a distance that is equal to the diameter], and the wire bundeled with it in the coil also the inverse square law applys here and the sum of forces reaches an effective 0 at a vary small distance from the wire pair. This is the secret of twisted pair transmition wire. it is self canceling at a very short distance from the pair. The BIFILAR coil whith the same number of turns will have about the same inductance will have almost the same inductance as a singal wire ciol just twice the wire. It will have almost no back EMF outside if the coil, almost no external field, and will be virtualy uneffected by the presance of a ferite core until the resanance frequency is aproched. It will have its own natural frequancy determined by the D-factor [transmitiion line effects] and the length of the wire. At its resonent frequancy it will radiate and receive at almost 100% efficency. This is an old trick used by HAM radio operators that I had forgoten. a pice of co-axel or twisted pair wire that is shorted at 1/4 wave from the transmiter is a verry good antenna. coaxial and twisted pair share many fo the same effects. Thanks guys... I had forgotten Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 19:53:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA03763; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:00:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:00:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:03:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970121205912.1abf3102@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Coil maintaining flux & Free kinetic energy ? Resent-Message-ID: <"wTf7d.0.Rw.oAOvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:34 AM 1/21/97 GMT, you wrote: >On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:36:34 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: > >>Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:30:14 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: >>> [snip] >>> >Hi Robin, >>> > >>> >To produce a force, requires energy. >>> >>> No it doesn't. That isn't how energy is defined. >> >>Defined yes, but you really believe that is a universal definition? > >Greg, a definition is simply a meaning that we humans decide to attach to a Take a ball [example].. Gravity works always upon its mass, force is constant, if you drop it, force does not go away. when you drop it then energy enters the picture. therefore ... To produce energy, requires force. yes?? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 20:46:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA26995; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:32:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:32:58 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:36:03 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32ee3c9c.19468064@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701200409.UAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199701200409.UAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"q61Wx.0.gb6.tXPvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1636 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:09:15 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >At 03:34 AM 1/20/97 GMT, you wrote: >>On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:07 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >>[snip] >>>ROBB: THERE IS NOTHING TO IT, JUST USE TWO SPOOLS OF WIRE TO WIND YOUR >>>CORES. WHEN THEY ARE FINNISHED CROSS CONNECT THEM> >>> l l >>> l l l >>> , l ll >>> l l >>> like this >> >>Wes, this connection diagram gives the impression that you connected the >>start of one wire to the end of the other. Is this so? (Or did you connect >>the start of one wire to the start or the other? >> >>> flows like this>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+ >>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<- =positive and nagative plates >>>of a capacitor.=tuning=storage. >>[snip] >>Regards, >> >>Robin van Spaandonk >> >connect the start of one with the end of the other, measure with an ohm >meter to make sure you don't get mixed up.> [snip] Wes, compare your reply to that from Bob: "You can simply short the adjacent conductors at each end of the cable with two conductors free on one end, of one free at each end depending on the number of conductors in your ribbon cable." This still leaves me in some doubt as to your definition of start and end. I.e. I would have gone Bob's way, and called the ends of the conductors in the same place either the start or the end. see picture (words fail me) ;) start _____________________________________ end (of both) _____________________________________ (of both). If you haven't connected 'start to start' *or* 'end to end', then you haven't got a bifilar coil. You just have an ordinary coil that is wound a bit strangely. This might explain the measurement values you obtained. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 22:56:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA21901; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:46:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:46:44 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:21:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701220621.WAA20747@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: W.Lambertson? Resent-Message-ID: <"ShVg_3.0.7M5.IVRvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1637 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:45 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Wes! Well, intriguing post as you mentioned in our conversation last >night....yep, I copied it off and will have to try that. There is a >catalog (name I can't remember) which advertises information on electret >batteries, but yours is the first I've seen where it was spelled out. >The advertisement said some people were able to get substantial power >(enough to drive a home) with stacks of these....thanks for posting it! >-- > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com > http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" > Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 > KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 >FOR THOSE THAT CAN'T GET LUCITE, TRY USING PARAFIN. > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 23:19:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA22800; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:52:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:52:49 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:27:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701220627.WAA20902@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils Resent-Message-ID: <"Kfb_w2.0.6a5.0bRvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1638 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 09:02 PM 1/21/97 -0600, you wrote: >At 09:12 AM 1/19/97 -0900, you wrote: >>At 8:07 PM 1/19/97, Greg Watson wrote: >>[snip] >>> >>>The simulation tends to indicated that bifilar coils will still >>>have inductance, due to the ferrite domains just below each wire, >>>aligning to the wires induced field, but the inductance will be much >>>lower than a coil wound in the normal way due to the total bulk of the >>>ferrite not being able to align its domains in a common way. >>> >>>Comments? >> >What farrite? These are AIR core coils. The oposing windings are traced >directly next-too eachother. The end effect is this. The inductance >cancels at only 50% efficency due to distance between the oposing conductors >[touching still has a distance that is equal to the diameter], and the wire >bundeled with it in the coil also the inverse square law applys here and the >sum of forces reaches an effective 0 at a vary small distance from the wire >pair. This is the secret of twisted pair transmition wire. it is self >canceling at a very short distance from the pair. > >The BIFILAR coil whith the same number of turns will have about the same >inductance will have almost the same inductance as a singal wire ciol just >twice the wire. It will have almost no back EMF outside if the coil, almost >no external field, and will be virtualy uneffected by the presance of a >ferite core until the resanance frequency is aproched. It will have its own >natural frequancy determined by the D-factor [transmitiion line effects] and >the length of the wire. At its resonent frequancy it will radiate and >receive at almost 100% efficency. > >This is an old trick used by HAM radio operators that I had forgoten. a >pice of co-axel or twisted pair wire that is shorted at 1/4 wave from the >transmiter is a verry good antenna. coaxial and twisted pair share many fo >the same effects. > >Thanks guys... >I had forgotten > >Charles:IF THIS IS TRUE, ALL ONE WOULD HAVE TO DO IS TO MAKE AN ANTENNA IN THIS MANNER TO RECEIVE POWER FROM ANY HIGH POWERED RADIO BROADCAST STATION, OR ANY OTHER HIGH POWERED RF SOURCE. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 21 23:25:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA26587; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:16:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:16:17 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:51:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701220651.WAA21409@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"Ixzho3.0.JV6.zwRvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1639 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 04:36 AM 1/22/97 GMT, you wrote: >On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:09:15 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: > >>At 03:34 AM 1/20/97 GMT, you wrote: >>>On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:07 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >>>[snip] >>>>ROBB: THERE IS NOTHING TO IT, JUST USE TWO SPOOLS OF WIRE TO WIND YOUR >>>>CORES. WHEN THEY ARE FINNISHED CROSS CONNECT THEM> >>>> l l >>>> l l l >>>> , l ll >>>> l l >>>> like this >>> >>>Wes, this connection diagram gives the impression that you connected the >>>start of one wire to the end of the other. Is this so? (Or did you connect >>>the start of one wire to the start or the other? >>> >>>> flows like this>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+ >>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<- =positive and nagative plates >>>>of a capacitor.=tuning=storage. >>>[snip] >>>Regards, >>> >>>Robin van Spaandonk >>> >>connect the start of one with the end of the other, measure with an ohm >>meter to make sure you don't get mixed up.> >[snip] >Wes, compare your reply to that from Bob: >"You can >simply short the adjacent conductors at each end of the cable with two >conductors free on one end, of one free at each end depending on the >number of conductors in your ribbon cable." > >This still leaves me in some doubt as to your definition of start and end. >I.e. I would have gone Bob's way, and called the ends of the conductors in >the same place either the start or the end. see picture (words fail me) ;) > > >start _____________________________________ end >(of both) _____________________________________ (of both). > >If you haven't connected 'start to start' *or* 'end to end', then you >haven't got a bifilar coil. You just have an ordinary coil that is wound a >bit strangely. This might explain the measurement values you obtained. > > >Regards, > >Robin:I posted the tesla Patent # I do not have a scanner or I would scan it and post it as a gif. The patent shows a circular coil that just can't be duplicated with arrows etc.I would assume that there is someone who has already found this patent, if so, there is enough interest that it would merrit scanning and posting it.[as an attached file]. There are many configurations that can be tried that have different effects. I would try the above configuration and compare it to cross connecting. Also you can use just one of the wires. This gives you three different circuits to compare, with only one "air coil". I am comparing the above circuits with one more, which has one enameled copper wire wound adjacent to steel wire. this gives me six circuits to compare. I am comparing L, C and R of all three circuits. I also intend to compare back emf. Since I do not have an oscilliscope, signal generator or spectrum analyzer, I have to rely on a friend who does this testing for me. [ANYONE WANT TO DONATE THESE ITEMS TO A GOOD CAUSE]? crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 00:26:12 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA03763; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:00:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:00:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:03:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970121205912.1abf3102@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Coil maintaining flux & Free kinetic energy ? Resent-Message-ID: <"wTf7d.0.Rw.oAOvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1635 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 02:34 AM 1/21/97 GMT, you wrote: >On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:36:34 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: > >>Robin van Spaandonk wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:30:14 +1030, Greg Watson wrote: >>> [snip] >>> >Hi Robin, >>> > >>> >To produce a force, requires energy. >>> >>> No it doesn't. That isn't how energy is defined. >> >>Defined yes, but you really believe that is a universal definition? > >Greg, a definition is simply a meaning that we humans decide to attach to a Take a ball [example].. Gravity works always upon its mass, force is constant, if you drop it, force does not go away. when you drop it then energy enters the picture. therefore ... To produce energy, requires force. yes?? From freenrg-l-request@ESKIMO.COM Wed Jan 22 02:22:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA23683; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:12:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:12:54 -0800 Message-ID: <32E5B4AC.4439@triode.net.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 22:33:17 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@ESKIMO.COM CC: gwatson@enternet.com.au Subject: Re: News Flash! References: <199701201635.LAA16861@w3.bluegrass.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"r9sxC1.0.gn5.ujLvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@ESKIMO.COM Reply-To: freenrg-l@ESKIMO.COM X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1628 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@ESKIMO.COM Status: O X-Status: Sam Gordon wrote: > > > You have a button magnet sitting on top of a sheet of Superconducting > > > material at room temperature. Liquid nitrogen is poured over the > > > superconductor and the magnet begins to lift and then suddenly jump up > > > in the air and remain suspended above the sheet indicating that the > > > sheet is now Superconducting. You note that one of the properties of a > > > superconductor is to resist all magnetic fields within the sheet and > > > currents will form on the surface to balance out the flux of the magnet > > > thus causing the magnet to suspend in mid air. You also note that work > > > has been done by the superconductor on the magnet to lift it against > the pull of gravity. > > > > > > Question: where did the energy come from to lift the magnet? > Does it not take energy to manufacture the liquid nitrogen. And is > there some heat removal work going on? So the energy comes from the > coolant. If the energy to lift the magnet came from the coolant then the coolant would get cooler not warmer thus asisting the crygenic process! As an aside: the cost of liquid nitrogen is less than the same size bottle of milk. Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 03:23:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA12104; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:36:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:36:28 -0800 Message-ID: <32E57144.340@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:45:40 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: W.Lambertson? References: <199701201627.IAA08452@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"XU5yC3.0.4y2.WBLvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1627 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Wes! Well, intriguing post as you mentioned in our conversation last night....yep, I copied it off and will have to try that. There is a catalog (name I can't remember) which advertises information on electret batteries, but yours is the first I've seen where it was spelled out. The advertisement said some people were able to get substantial power (enough to drive a home) with stacks of these....thanks for posting it! -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 03:32:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA20995; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:29:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:29:42 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970122023222.009bf858@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 02:34:08 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bshannon@tiac.net, harti@bbtt.de, gwatson@enternet.com.au From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"TREb32.0.z75.KmUvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1640 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 03:36 PM 1/21/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: > >> Yes the diode does keep the current from flowing through the driver. >> However if the driver's resistance does not change the current through the >> driver during the "back" EMF is the same as during the time the driver was >> supplying the current. The only problem with deenergizing the driver >> occurs if the driver cannot sink current (most drivers can only source >> current). If the driver's resistance is constant then the driver will NOT >> experience higher current and will not be damaged by the higher current >> alone. (relative current polarity or HV are the problems) > >Drivers resistance? I dont see this as a factor here, only the rate of >change in the falling field. We are getting sidetracked here. Consider an instance where an open collector TTL NAND Gate is energizing a relay. When the output of the gate makes a transition to the OFF state the transistor in the gate goes to a very high R (opens) and the coil responds by producing a short HV pulse that damages the output transistor in the gate (because the coils now sees the driver as high R). If the output of the NAND gate was shorted to ground (low R) instead of being left open then the gate would NOT suffer any damage since the back EMF would be the same as when the gate was supplying current to the coil. The "protection-diode" does just that by keeping the R of the coil very low during the coil discharge. Often logic gates in Integrated circuits include such diodes and sometime you have to add them yourself. >> >Even though the inductance increases while building the field, there is >> >no extra energy stored in the field after the core enters once this >> >change in the rate of energy storage in the field is accounted for. >> >> Most likely you are correct although Osamu Ide's experiment showed >> discrepancies from the theory in this case. > >I've not read the orignal material, I had thougt from another posting >that Ide-sans work was with opposed magnets. Where is the orignal work? His experiment uses both polarities. [Osamu Ide,"Increased voltage phenomenon in a resonant circuit of unconventional magnetic configuration", Journal of Applied Physics. 77(11), 1 June 1995.]. My library has it, I could fax it to you if you have a fax machine. >> BUT what if we perform a mental exercise and allow the core to approach the >> coil AFTER the coil has already "built up" the maximum desired current and >> field intensity. This way no inductance change occurs WHILE the coil is >> "charging up". If we now allow the core to be attracted by the coil and >> recover the stored energy, WILL the amount of the recovered energy be the >> same as the amount spent during the "charge up" process ? (neglecting the >> R losses). Osamu Ide's experiment seems to confirm that this indeed is true. > >Again, I need to see the original work. As the core approaches, >inductance goes up, but stored energy also? What about the energy used >to align the domains within the core material? What about the kenetic >energy of the approach of the coil? I have the same questions. My physics indoctrination tells me that as the core gains kinetic energy when approaching, the "recoverable" electrical energy from the coil must decrease. On the other side I know that the coil will keep this energy CONSTANT (besides R losses). So where does the energy come from ? I am not a ZPE believer , but it sure would be nice. This really buggs me. It is very interesting that you made a distinction between the energy needed to align the ferrite's domains and the kinetic gain ! >This might not be much more simple than the core approaching while the >field is building. It seems it may still be imortnat to integrate the >energy over time. > >> Yes this is very tricky, that is why I prefer to keep the inductance of the >> coil constant while the coil is charging up (by not allowing the ferrite >> core to approach). This eliminates all of the messy integration over time >> vs. distance issue. > >Question, is the coil current held constant while this core approaches? >If not, and the core 'pops' into the coil increasing inductance, >additional current will flow and raise the total energy. Well, the hypothetical coil is shorted and power supply is disconnected when the core approaches. This makes the coil a closed and isolated system. The current will circulate in this coil forever rendering it a permanent magnet (if the coil is superconductive). When the core approaches to this closed / isolated coil the current in the coil will decrease but the stored energy will stay CONSTANT (since the time of coil's discharge increases proportionately to compensate for the lower current) >You still need to integrate the total energy over time as the core >approaches. If we consider an ideal, lossless, isolated system (perfect for thinking) we do NOT to need to integrate, we just need to measure the "recoverable" energy before and after the core is attracted. >> >There will be some energy exchange between the moving core and the >> >growing field. >> >> Perhaps, but I don't understand what would be the principle of this energy >> exchange ? >If we moved the core into and out of a coil carrying AC current to a >load, we would modulate the energy delivered to that load. Where is the >energy used in this modulation process comming from? From the kenetic >energy of the core movement! This example doesn't account for the phase of the AC current vs the position of the core. Furthermore the AC power supply is connected to the coil all the time forcing the coil's energy to follow its current and voltage variations. >If the core is attracted, it takes energy from the coil, right? Is this >not where the energy for the acceleration of the core is comming from? Part of me says yes, but another part asks the question: why would the "recoverable" energy from the coil be less than the "input" energy, AFTER the core is attracted. The domain alignment becomes a part of the coil's field, this alignment does not decrease coil's field, it just lengthens the discharge time and lowers the coil current (higher t, lower I, energy the same). Would the core's kinetic energy be decreased after the core gives up the energy stored in the domain's alignment (in coil's discharge). I don't think so. The release of the energy stored in the core's domains DOES NOT decrease the core's kinetic energy. This really bugs me. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 03:46:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA24578; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:01:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:01:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970122030017.0099e6e0@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 03:06:08 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Movement, Force & Energy. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"W-JGX1.0.y_5.MEVvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1641 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes it seems that work is relative. Very nicely put. According to Greg's post you could extend this analogically and write that it is quite possible that the gravity on earth is doing work on the brick, or magnet attracting a STATIONARY piece of iron is doing work on the iron FROM SOME POINT OF VIEW ? We just don't consider that point of view. Maybe some little extradimentional green man sees things differently. At 07:40 AM 1/22/97 +1030, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Several readers have informed me of my apparent errors in >suggesting that work is being done if NO movement occurs. >The classic formula is E=1/2MV^2. This suggests that the >mass must been seen to change it's velocity (movement) before >we will accept that work has been done against it. > >I suggest that the pivotal word here is "seen". > >If we were traveling aboard a rocket ship which was accelerating >at 32ft/sec^2, we would feel no movement, only our normal 1G >gravity field. If we had a brick resting on a table, we know >it has weight. We also know that if the brick doesn't move, NO >work is being done against it according to the above equation. > >If however, we view the rocket ship from earth, we get a very >different picture. We see the brick being accelerated at >32ft/sec^2 and have no problem in understanding that work is being >done against it. If we stopped the ship's motors and acceleration >ceased, it would become very apparent to the onboard observer what >was happening. > >Seems that a simple definition of work is limited by the viewers >perspective. > >Are we still so sure a lack of movement means that no work >is being done? > >-- >Best Regards, >Greg Watson, >Greg Watson Consulting, >Adelaide, South Australia, >gwatson@enternet.com.au > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 05:06:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA11084; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:31:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:31:45 -0800 Message-ID: <32E57043.5877@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:41:23 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! References: <32E3BFCA.1603@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EXjts3.0.4j2.S7Lvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1626 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Folks! I read the interesting comments about the apparent overunity coil arrangement, yet it says a 40watt fluorescent bulb was lit to full illumination. Not to put a damper on any enthusiasm, but light intensity is a highly subjective thing and although the 6mhz driving signal would make it brighter, it should be tested for output in lumens from normal wall power, then through the device. There have been several circuits (especially the MRA) which appeared to give higher power out than was used, yet the reality was not even close to unity let alone over-unity. If, as in some of the devices claimed to be over-unity, it could only source resistive loads, then something else besides light as output should be operated on the output of the circuit, possibly a radiant heater. If the temperature in and out were measured using wallpower and again measured using battery power, it would clearly show if there was an increase. Jon Snell had suggested a simple version of a 'caloric bomb' where two resistors are used as heaters. One is placed in a tube of water on the power side (battery) feeding an alleged over-unity circut, the other, identical resistor/tube of water on the output side should show an increase in temperature if it was truly over-unity. The idea being that the current would produce heat in the resistor and bring the water to temp. The only caveat with this that was pointed out was that some circuits can shape the wave so that it drops off very rapidly, thus giving more effective power and making it hotter. The way around that was to take this measurement over a period of time and average the readings. At any rate, good luck with the circuit, I hope you will share it with others so it can be tested and verified. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 05:07:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA23820; Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:13:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:13:32 -0800 Message-ID: <32E5BB98.33CF@triode.net.au> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:02:48 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bshannon@tiac.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. References: <32E35B79.851@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kW8Z52.0.vp5.TkLvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1629 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Maxwell wrote: > > >You also note that work > > has been done by the superconductor on the magnet to lift it against the > > pull of gravity. > > > > Question: where did the energy come from to lift the magnet? > > > > Maxwell. > > An interesting question indeed! > > While levitated, no work is being done as strange as this may seem. Agreed. But if the magnet rises then it has gained potential energy. > When I have seen Missner levitation demonstrated, the magnet was placed > over the already superconducting material, which is only a bit > different. In this case, the magnet also does work in stopping the fall > of the magnet. > > As the material transitions to the superconducting state, and pops up, > the work will be done against the magnet for a short period only. It is still a finite amount of work = force x distance. It has to be accounted for in a clasical energy conservation paradigm. > > This work is not being done by the superconductor, but by the magnet. > This does not appear to present any problems from the perspective of > classical theory. > If the magnet were strong enough, it would never pop up, as high temp > superconductors will not superconduct if the flux density is above a > rather low critical point. I've seen high temp superconductors cease > superconduction while still below the critical temprature when the flux > gets too strong. Agreed. > For a smaller magnet, this should not be an issue however. Agreed again. > Magnets can do work, but they pay a penalty for doing so. They cannot > do unlimited work without depolarization. If what you say is true, them couldnt we simply replace the magnet with a lightly magnetised superconducting coil and repeat the experiment. Would not the (Im starting to sound like the late great Julius Sumner-Miller here) the superconducting material lift the coil in the same manner as the magnet? In which case where does the energy come from to lift the coil? Also depolarisation needs to be clarified here. Are you saying that magnetic domains become disoriented, or are you saying that the unmatched electron spins decay into the nucleus because the universe is unable to provide energy to keep the electrons in their respective spins? Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 06:53:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA18812; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:20:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:20:32 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:22:51 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701221422.IAA16637@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"fJ_hm3.0.pb4.k8Yvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1642 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >>This is an old trick used by HAM radio operators that I had forgoten. a >>pice of co-axel or twisted pair wire that is shorted at 1/4 wave from the >>transmiter is a verry good antenna. coaxial and twisted pair share many fo >>the same effects. >> >>Thanks guys... >>I had forgotten >> >>Charles:IF THIS IS TRUE, ALL ONE WOULD HAVE TO DO IS TO MAKE AN ANTENNA IN >THIS MANNER TO RECEIVE POWER FROM ANY HIGH POWERED RADIO BROADCAST STATION, >OR ANY OTHER HIGH POWERED RF SOURCE. >crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES >WESLEY CROSIAR >PO BOX 268 >SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 > > A shorted 1/4 wave piece of coax makes a good MATCHING STUB, not a good ANTENNA. An antenna is still needed to connect the matching stub to. I have 30 years experience in building amateur radio antennas of all sorts of configurations. Perhaps Charles was trying to describe a "folded dipole"? (A half wave length of twinlead is stretched horizontally and the ends are shorted. One of the wires is cut in the middle and used as the feedpoint.) Zack W9SZ w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 06:53:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA19383; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:25:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:25:57 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:28:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701221428.IAA17652@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: W.Lambertson? Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"fj1H22.0.nk4.qDYvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1643 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > >At 05:45 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Hi Wes! Well, intriguing post as you mentioned in our conversation last >>night....yep, I copied it off and will have to try that. There is a >>catalog (name I can't remember) which advertises information on electret >>batteries, but yours is the first I've seen where it was spelled out. >>The advertisement said some people were able to get substantial power >>(enough to drive a home) with stacks of these....thanks for posting it! >>-- >> Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com >> http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" >> Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 >> KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 >>FOR THOSE THAT CAN'T GET LUCITE, TRY USING PARAFIN. >> >> >crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES Isn't Lucite the same thing as Plexiglas (acrylic plastic)? The electrets I mentioned were made of ceramics, if I remember correctly. I'm still looking for the article. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 11:11:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA03326; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:00:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:00:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32E5FEC9.7E4@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:49:29 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils References: <1.5.4.16.19970121205818.1abfa81e@startext.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"BqyYD2.0.0m.cLbvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1644 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles Ford wrote: > What farrite? These are AIR core coils. The oposing windings are traced > directly next-too eachother. The end effect is this. The inductance > cancels at only 50% efficency due to distance between the oposing conductors > [touching still has a distance that is equal to the diameter], and the wire > bundeled with it in the coil also the inverse square law applys here and the > sum of forces reaches an effective 0 at a vary small distance from the wire > pair. This is the secret of twisted pair transmition wire. it is self > canceling at a very short distance from the pair. Ever seen how non-inductive wire wound resistors are made? These have resistance, but nearly no inductance at all, save the lead lenghts, etc. Don't these reduce inductance at greater than 50% efficiency? Isn't the interconductor distance a function of the insualtion rather than the wire diameter? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 11:12:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA04073; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:02:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:02:36 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 19:29:54 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: conversion of heat in high frequency lamps Lines: 36 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sz6pA2.0.cy.pNbvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1645 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I saw this information in article by N.E.Zaev, Moscow, Journal of Russian Physical Thought, number 1, 1991, p.17, in russian: "Yet in last century it was detected a strange property of some luminofores (materals those are lighting after it was radiated by light) to emitt the light that have a more short wave lengh than wave length of a light of exciting radiation (so called anti-Stoks luminescentia). In other words, it is a property to transformation, conversion ... not only exciting light but also an inner (heat) energy of a matter into light. In a fact it is property for concentration of a heat. So, it was recognized that possibility for overunity it real... Practical importance it was doing from 1961 when japan scientist S. Jatsava proposed to use lumeniscentia of "gadoliniy" composition for optic cooling. Many measurements are proved real cooling of luminofor, i.e. it radiate more energy than it received from exciting light. In 1966 it was reported (A.T.Aronov, B.M.Wool and other) on power output factor 1.1. It was noted that cooling of sample is compensated by inflow of heat from enviromental. It was detected that efficiency factor can be 1.6 and a crystall can be cooled on 26.6 degrees if it is radiated by power 1 Watt/sm^2..." So, conversion of energy is a fact. It is not "something from nothing" but heat of enviromental is free source. Perhaps, in future it was limited by special law the power that can be taken by personal or industry power plant from enviromental according to spatial volume of your house, home, factory, farm, land... Also perhaps we'll see a topic for new state taxation in this area and so on... ha-ha... --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 11:39:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA16587; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:52:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:52:59 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:22:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701221822.KAA08273@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"ssOBo3.0.714.u6cvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:51 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 04:36 AM 1/22/97 GMT, you wrote: >>On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:09:15 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >> >>>At 03:34 AM 1/20/97 GMT, you wrote: >>>>On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:07 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >>>>[snip] >>>>>ROBB: THERE IS NOTHING TO IT, JUST USE TWO SPOOLS OF WIRE TO WIND YOUR >>>>>CORES. WHEN THEY ARE FINNISHED CROSS CONNECT THEM> >>>>> l l >>>>> l l l >>>>> , l ll >>>>> l l >>>>> like this >>>> >>>>Wes, this connection diagram gives the impression that you connected the >>>>start of one wire to the end of the other. Is this so? (Or did you connect >>>>the start of one wire to the start or the other? >>>> >>>>> flows like this>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+ >>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<- =positive and nagative plates >>>>>of a capacitor.=tuning=storage. >>>>[snip] >>>>Regards, >>>> >>>>Robin van Spaandonk >>>> >>>connect the start of one with the end of the other, measure with an ohm >>>meter to make sure you don't get mixed up.> >>[snip] >>Wes, compare your reply to that from Bob: >>"You can >>simply short the adjacent conductors at each end of the cable with two >>conductors free on one end, of one free at each end depending on the >>number of conductors in your ribbon cable." >> >>This still leaves me in some doubt as to your definition of start and end. >>I.e. I would have gone Bob's way, and called the ends of the conductors in >>the same place either the start or the end. see picture (words fail me) ;) >> >> >>start _____________________________________ end >>(of both) _____________________________________ (of both). >> >>If you haven't connected 'start to start' *or* 'end to end', then you >>haven't got a bifilar coil. You just have an ordinary coil that is wound a >>bit strangely. This might explain the measurement values you obtained. >> Robin: I was tired last night and did not answer your question properly. Here is the way that the tesla patent shows the bifilar winding. CENTER++++++++++++++++++++++++++++OUTSIDE positive goes here l l l l l l l l l l l l negative here CENTER-------------------------------OUTSIDE If you study this carefully I believe that you will discover that it is a mirror wound coil that has natural capacatance. In other words one wire follows a "left hand rule", the other wire follows a "right hand rule" this cancels out the self inductance. Since one wire is positive and the other is negative, you also have natural capacatance. THE WIRES IN THE TESLA PATENT "ARE" CONNECTED AS SHOWN ABOVE. THEY ARE NOT SIMPLY CONNECTET AT ONE END. If they were connected together at one end, both wires would be wound the same way and you would not have mirror wound coils. Could someone who is better with words please explain mirror wound coils, I understand how they work, but can't verbalize it clear enough so that everyone has a clear understanding. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 12:41:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA03003; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:27:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:27:31 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:29:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970122152409_1077116004@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea for building gravity wave detector Resent-Message-ID: <"6geKQ3.0.lk.nWdvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1648 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Any gravity wave detectors MUST be burried deep underground and well shielded from tremors, shaking, and any energy of any kind, or else it will not work. Every form of energy that has been observed to date has been more than the energy in gravity waves (Except, perhaps, nutrinos). -Adam GRossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 12:52:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA01604; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:21:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:21:56 -0800 Message-ID: <32E6294D.3C11@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:50:53 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. References: <199701221822.KAA08273@claim.goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nlNoj3.0.ZO.BRdvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1647 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: wesly crosiar wrote: > If you study this carefully I believe that you will discover that it is a > mirror wound coil that has natural capacatance. In other words one wire > follows a "left hand rule", the other wire follows a "right hand rule" this > cancels out the self inductance. Since one wire is positive and the other is > negative, you also have natural capacatance. THE WIRES IN THE TESLA PATENT > "ARE" CONNECTED AS SHOWN ABOVE. THEY ARE NOT SIMPLY CONNECTET AT ONE END. If > they were connected together at one end, both wires would be wound the same > way and you would not have mirror wound coils. Could someone who is better > with words please explain mirror wound coils, I understand how they work, > but can't verbalize it clear enough so that everyone has a clear > understanding. The direction of winding is not the critical factor alone! The critical factor is the direction of current. It is this direction of current that controls the polarization of the field of a coil. If both coils are right hand wound, but the current must do a '180' at the end, and retrace the winding spiral in the same winding direction, but opposed current flow direction, there will be nearly no net inductance. This assumes a high degree of mutual inductance between each winding, etc. A bifilar coil is simply a coil with a single winding direction wher the lenght of wire was folded in half before winding. A coil with two equal and opposite directions of winding is a cadeuceus coil. They are not one and the same things. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 13:04:06 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA03899; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:31:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:31:48 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:34:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970122152731_1177734763@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Idea for building gravity wave detector Resent-Message-ID: <"UtaNN.0.ry.padvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1649 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>This method receives MECHANICAL effect of gravity wave not the wave itself, What we are looking for here is the EM content of gravity IF it exists. There shuld be a tremondos amount of energy avaliable providing the condition is not static.>>> All detectors ever made were to measure the mechanical effects. There is no other way. Gravity waves have VERY VERY little effect, because they carry so little energy and are so small. You would probably get a LOT more of an effect from someone talking on the moon (Assuming there was air for the sound waves to travel in, between the earth and the moon) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 15:19:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA06828; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:52:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:52:52 -0800 From: ranger@wave.cape.net Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:48:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199701222248.RAA18665@wave.cape.net> X-Sender: ranger@cape.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News Flash! Resent-Message-ID: <"SphQy.0.bg1._efvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1650 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: As an aside: the cost of liquid nitrogen is less than the same size bottle of milk. Maxwell. But where can you get liquid nitrogen from? Ranger From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 17:02:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA06320; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:26:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:26:12 -0800 Message-ID: <32E692A5.5DA6@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:50:21 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970122023222.009bf858@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"h8K7D2.0.gY1.Y0hvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1653 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > >If the core is attracted, it takes energy from the coil, right? No. The only energy taken from the coil is that necessary to cause domain alignment and in modern ferrite material that energy is VERY low. >> Is this > >not where the energy for the acceleration of the core is coming from? No. The energy for the acceleration of the rod is supplied by the rod's aligned domains. > Part of me says yes, but another part asks the question: why would the > "recoverable" energy from the coil be less than the "input" energy, AFTER > the core is attracted. The domain alignment becomes a part of the coil's > field, this alignment does not decrease coil's field, it just lengthens the > discharge time and lowers the coil current (higher t, lower I, energy the > same). Would the core's kinetic energy be decreased after the core gives > up the energy stored in the domain's alignment (in coil's discharge). I > don't think so. The release of the energy stored in the core's domains > DOES NOT decrease the core's kinetic energy. This really bugs me. Hi Epitaxy, Consider this. Imagine a stationary rod with a permeability of 1000 in the middle of the coil, but we hold its permeability at 1. Let the coil current stabilize. Now allow the rod's domains to align to the coil's H field. As the domains align, the coil/rod's B field increases around 1000 times. The massive back EMF produced would drive massive current back into the coil's power source. So where did the energy come from? >From the magnetic field produced as the domains aligned their individual magnetic fields. And where does the domain's magnetic field come from? From the spinning electrons in the domains iron atoms. Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. Consider this. A ferrite rod and permanent magnet are attracted to each other by the magnetic fields both produce. The force is being generated by the aligned domains in each material. No outside energy source is involved here. If we release the rod, it will accelerate toward to magnet and its kinetic energy will increase. Again, no outside energy source is involved here, but the rod's kinetic energy is still increasing. Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. Remember Over Unity systems will obey natural law, but be seen to work in ways which will tend to seem strange, seem to be country to our normal way of looking at energy systems and you are right, they will "bug us". But they will still work. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 20:19:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA08410; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:36:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:36:58 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:11:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701230311.TAA08511@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Electrets Resent-Message-ID: <"R8O2_.0.G32.Ppjvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1654 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:34 PM 1/22/97 -0600, you wrote: >I found the article in Scientific American. I don't have the Year and >Month. They were not printing that on the page edges when this was >printed. I don't have the magazine, only a copy of the article. > >The article is titled "The Amateur Scientist: How to make electrets, >devices that hold electrostatic charge" by C. L. Stong. > >I wish I had more, you might check on William Beaty's web site under >the Amateur Scientist section and see if they have article indexes >you can do a search for this article. > >Mark: Could you post the important information from the article? > > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 22:33:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA09465; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:21:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:21:22 -0800 Message-ID: <32E70257.3981@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:46:55 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: DNMEC flux gate generator design available Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5gtfc2.0.nJ2.XDmvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1655 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, I have finished the first design of my DNMEC flux gate generator. Quick Field simulations and actual simple prototype testing matches with my theory. I am now construction a full device. I will keep you posted. If anyone wishes the construction details, they are available for free. Just ask. I will assist constructors any way I can. What you will get are Quick Field model files. They have all the info necessary for construction. You can also play with the sims if you wish to alter the construction details. My only request is for the information to be kept open and flowing. We owe our children a better future than what we have now. Low cost, safe, non polluting power (rotary & electrical). This will change the future. By the way, if you make any money, a 5% royalty would be nice. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, 61 8 8270 2737 (Home / Office / PC Fax) gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 23:32:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA21934; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:23:09 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:23:09 -0800 Message-ID: <32E70CBA.256D@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:01:14 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! References: <1.5.4.16.19970121205832.1abf3102@startext.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DrSW.0.eM5.R7nvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1657 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles Ford wrote: > > At 07:19 PM 1/20/97 +0300, you wrote: > > > > > > > ><"free". Any comments? > >< > > > > >If output 40 Watts is more than input 6 watts you have 34 Watts free. > >Take my congrulations! > > > > > >--- > > Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia > > Tel:7-812-2747877 > > > Correction: > > 40W lamp does not mean 40W visible light emmision, floresent lighting has > verry poor efficency in visible wavelengths, not as poor as incondesent This > device aproches 100% but is not over. I agree wholeheartedly. When operated at 60Hz, a fluorescent lamp only puts out about 2% of its energy in the form of light. The device I described is much more efficient than this and produces no heat loss. This is why it works better than a standard ballast and even an electronic ballast. Touch one of the "energy efficient" fluorescent lamps that use an electronic ballast and you will find that they run quite warm to the touch. The lamp I operated with my little transformer was cold to the touch, even after operating for several hours continuous. -- Phil Gantt And in the end the Love you take is equal to the Love you make. ***Lennon/McCartney*** http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html (updated 1/18/97) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 22 23:45:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA21904; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:23:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:23:00 -0800 Message-ID: <32E70B92.2D7E@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:56:18 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! References: <32E3BFCA.1603@ix.netcom.com> <32E57043.5877@keelynet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"U3TAp2.0.AM5.I7nvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1656 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jerry wrote: > > Hi Folks! > > I read the interesting comments about the apparent overunity coil > arrangement, yet it says a 40watt fluorescent bulb was lit to full > illumination. I never claimed the coil was an overunity arrangement. What I stated was that using the coil (actually transformer) that I wound, I was able to illuminate a 40 watt rated fluorescent lamp using only 6 watts for full illumination and as little as 1.5 watts for "dim" illumination. Basically the amounts to about an 85% reduction in energy savings as the transformer was cool to the touch (unlike a standard ballast), and the lamp also was cool to the touch (wasting no energy in the form of heat). In fact, I was able to illuminate a lamp that was not functional in a standard ballast fixture because the heater filament in it had burned out. The principal here is that fluorescent lamps can be illuminated with high frequency, high voltage, much more efficiently than a lamp operated at 60Hz and approximately 320 volts (standard ballast output). > Not to put a damper on any enthusiasm, but light intensity is a highly > subjective thing and although the 6mhz driving signal would make it > brighter, it should be tested for output in lumens from normal wall > power, then through the device. I did not have light measuring equipment, but I can tell you that compared side by side with a lamp operated from a standard ballast, there was little or no difference is the light intensity. In my opinion, who cares if the light output was less? It still lit the room quite nicely using much less electrical power and produced no heat losses. > At any rate, good luck with the circuit, I hope you will share it with > others so it can be tested and verified. Actually, I did divulge the workings and details of this device on Chips' list some time ago. If people are interested, I can repeat that information on this list as well. > Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com Thanks for your comments. -- Phil Gantt And in the end the Love you take is equal to the Love you make. ***Lennon/McCartney*** http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html (updated 1/18/97) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 00:33:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA29524; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:01:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:01:07 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:04:30 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32e90e35.19426368@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701221822.KAA08273@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199701221822.KAA08273@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pUq1_2.0.AD7.0hnvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1658 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:22:34 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: [snip] >Robin: I was tired last night and did not answer your question properly. >Here is the way that the tesla patent shows the bifilar winding. > > CENTER++++++++++++++++++++++++++++OUTSIDE positive goes here > l > l > l > l > l > l > l > l > l > l > l > l >negative here CENTER-------------------------------OUTSIDE > >If you study this carefully I believe that you will discover that it is a >mirror wound coil that has natural capacatance. In other words one wire >follows a "left hand rule", the other wire follows a "right hand rule" this >cancels out the self inductance. Since one wire is positive and the other is >negative, you also have natural capacatance. THE WIRES IN THE TESLA PATENT >"ARE" CONNECTED AS SHOWN ABOVE. THEY ARE NOT SIMPLY CONNECTET AT ONE END. If >they were connected together at one end, both wires would be wound the same >way and you would not have mirror wound coils. Could someone who is better >with words please explain mirror wound coils, I understand how they work, >but can't verbalize it clear enough so that everyone has a clear >understanding. [snip] Wes, Based on the fact that you mention a centre, I wonder if you are perhaps talking about pancake coils. Unfortunately I don't have access to patent nrs. below about 2000000, so I can't check it. However I do have a scanner, so if you would like to mail me a couple of good photocopies, I can scan them and send you the resultant JPEG files, and/or make them available on my web site. If you wish to do this, let me know and I will email you my snail mail address. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 01:19:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA04971; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:45:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:45:56 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 03:48:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970123034830_-2113512851@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re : Re: Magnistor testing Resent-Message-ID: <"EHS-D1.0.ZD1.2Lovo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1659 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dans un courrier date du 18/01/1997 04:10:56, vous avez ecrit : << A possible way to test for increase in input power without using an accurate power meter is to design a class B operational amplifier based oscilator to drive the input coils. Then all you have to do is measure the change in current (assuming contant supply voltage) from the power supply to the op. amp. to determine whether any extra energy is being input when adding the magnet under load. >> Thank you Maxwell for your advice about the Magnistor, I shall tried it, soon and as soon as possible, I shall inform you about the results. Truly, Jean-Louis From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 02:18:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA11702; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:33:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:33:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:34:16 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701230934.UAA16780@hurricane.netspace.net.au> X-Sender: mathew3@pop.netspace.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, antigravity@primenet.com From: Ossie Callanan Subject: [ART] hubbelhalebopp photos! Resent-Message-ID: <"5_5iG.0.ms2.X1pvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1660 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Correct spelling {xxxx} inserted by me. Meanings [xxxx] inserted by me. >From: lizardha@sprynet.com >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:28:43 -0800 >Subject: [ART] hubbelhalebopp photos! >To: art-bell-fans@primenet.com >Sender: owner-art-bell-fans@lists.primenet.com > > > ><---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> >From: lizardha@sprynet.com >Subject: hubbelhalebopp photos! >To: in_search_of@primenet.com > >i am getting this up fast, and will do a mre{more} complete job ths{this} evening. > right now some old guy s waiting to buy me dinner-but i told him i >had to gt{get} this to you guys first. > >LEE SHARGEL- just put up photos from the hubble[space telescope] delivered from pine >gap. these are classified but he believes everything will change >tomorrow so it is not important. we saw some from clementine[satelite], clode{close} >ups of craters on the back south part of the moon. one had two craft[space craft, UFOs] >rising from craters, he{the} other had two building{buildings} in the brater{crater}. guys, >this was close up and personal. it was soon after that clementine[satelite] >became 'toothpaste'[distroyed]. > >the hubbel[space telescope] photos were of a lot of boring galazies[galaxies], and of a water >planet called-oops can't get the name my palm top batteries just gave >out. anyway it is inhabited. now the phitos{photos} of f=hale bopp["Hale Bopp"- comet] and a >clear companion he did not call hale mary[nick name for the comet companion object] (not being on the art bell >fan line) was large and obvious. he says it is a probe sent by the >dolphin people to rid this part of the galaxy of bad guys. >now hale bopp[comet] is making it's own gravity waves and they will hit earth >tomorrow, blend with those of teo{the} other craft that are here and make a >tone[frequency] that will change everything. he says they know for sure. other >photos showed the ax{axe} head craft[space craft, UFO of "axe" head shape] in the frames with hale bopp[comet] and the >moon etc. >this guy is either going to be famous by this time tomorrow or he can >go use courtney brown's[phd professor who is president of institue for Remote Viewing(psychic viewing) has claimed, through their methods, there is an artificial companion object following this comet. His credibility is at a low point at the moment] guest room. i will post further details early >tomorrow-got to find some batteries to retreive my notes. > >patricia weissleader at LIZARDHAVEN RANCH > "where the critter meets the glitter" > lizardha@sprynet.com > ><---- End Forwarded Message ----> > > >patricia weissleader at LIZARDHAVEN RANCH > "where the critter meets the glitter" > lizardha@sprynet.com > >----------- >This list will be going dark January 31, 1997. >Please visit the new Bulletin Board System at www.artbell.com. > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 02:41:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA13832; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:53:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:53:16 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:53:56 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199701230953.UAA18619@hurricane.netspace.net.au> X-Sender: mathew3@pop.netspace.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: art-bell-fans@primenet.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, antigravity@primenet.com From: Ossie Callanan Subject: Re: [ART] hubbelhalebopp photos! Resent-Message-ID: <"AdWnR2.0.2O3.AKpvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1661 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:28 PM 1/22/97 -0800, patricia weissleader wrote: > >LEE SHARGEL- just put up photos from the hubble delivered from pine >gap. these are classified but he believes everything will change >tomorrow so it is not important. we saw some from clementine, clode >ups of craters on the back south part of the moon. one had two craft >rising from craters, he other had two building in the brater. guys, >this was close up and personal. it was soon after that clementine >became 'toothpaste'. > Just to let everyone (who doesn't know) know where patrircia is coming from, check out the following from http://www.padrak.com/ufo/SCHED_1997.html ____________________________________________________________________________ ____________ 6TH IUFOC SCHEDULE PAGE Last Revisions Received: January 1, 1997. Last Confirmations Received: ALL: January 1, 1997. 6th Annual International UFO Congress Convention Film Festival & EBE Awards January 18 thru January 24, 1997 - LAUGHLIN, NEVADA SCHEDULE OF EVENTS CONFIRMED SPEAKERS "(C)": EVERY SPEAKER HAS BEEN CONFIRMED AS OF DEC. 12! SATURDAY - JAN. 18 Registration Desk Open: Noon - 8:00 PM Exhibits Open: Noon - 8:00 PM 3:00 - 5:00 PM UFO Film Festival Screenings 5:00 - 6:30 PM Dinner Break 6:30 - 6:45 PM Welcome Address 6:45 - 8:30 PM SHELLEY THOMSON (C) - Shaman trained, she's been a Remote Viewer since before the 'Spooks' coined the name. What a story she has to tell ! 8:45 - 10:30 PM COLIN ANDREWS (UK) (C) - The "Dean of Crop Circle Researchers" returns this year to update us on the most spectacular "Circle Season" ever. SUNDAY - JAN. 19 Registration Desk Open: 8:30 AM - 8:00 PM Exhibits Open: 8:30 AM - 8:00 PM 9:00 - 12:30 PM GREGG BRADEN (C) - Using the verifiable decrease in the Earth's magnetic field and the increase in frequency, scientist Braden researches these rapidly changing parameters, and what they mean to us all. 1:30 - 6:00 PM STAN DEYO (Australia) (C) - Author of "Cosmic Conspiracy", will expand our knowledge of the eminent changes we all face in the very near future; Hale-Bopp, the Earth changes, the aliens, the history, the prophecies and us. 7:30 - ?????? UFO Film Festival Screenings MONDAY - JAN. 20 Registration Desk Open: 8:30 AM - 8:00 PM Exhibits Open: 8:30 AM - 8:00 PM 9:00 - 10:30 AM Col. DONALD M. WARE, (Ret.) (C) - Retired fighter pilot turned Lightworker talks about : "Transformations: Spiritual, Physical and Political". 11:00 - 12:30 PM WHITLEY STRIEBER (C) - Learning more every day about our relationship with our Visitors, he graciously shares his latest discoveries with us. 1:30 - 3:30 PM Dr. JAMES J. HURTAK (C) - Author of "The Keys of Enoch", presents an overview of this cosmology, his Remote Viewing experiences, and more. 4:00 - 6:00 PM DOLORES CANNON (C) - An experienced regressionist who was startled by Nostradamus' communications thru her subjects. New info & cases. 7:30 - ?????? UFO Film Festival Screenings TUESDAY - JAN. 21 Registration Desk Open: 8:30 AM - 7:30 PM Exhibits Open: 8:30 AM - 7:30 PM 9:00 - 10:30 AM MICHAEL HESSEMAN (Germany) (C) - Hear what's new & hot across the ocean from our European director. Santilli Autopsy update, too. 11:00 - 12:30 PM ROLANDO QUIROGA VALERO (Mexico) (C) - A long term Pleiadian contactee, whose fascinating story has never been presented in this country. 1:30 - 5:30 PM "WHAT'S THE STORY ON THESE UNDERGROUND TUNNELS AND BASES?" BILL HAMILTON (C), CHUCK CLARK (C) & Dr. RICHARD SAUDER (C) will present information and results from their research into this top secret subject. They will be followed by a SURPRISE SPEAKER with mind blowing information. All 4 speakers will conclude the program with a panel and Q & A Period. 5:30 - 6:15 PM GRAHAM BIRDSALL (U.K.) (C) Graham will do a brief update on UK activity, and present a very recent, very startling landing case in Scotland. 7:30 - ?????? "Meet The Speakers" Cocktail Party, with Drinks, Hors d'ouevres, Door Prizes and Live Entertainment. WEDNESDAY - JAN. 22 Registration Desk Open: 8:30 AM - 8:00 PM Exhibits Open: 8:30 AM - 8:00 PM 9:00 - 10:15 PM Lt. Col. ARVID M. CHTCHODRO (Russia) (C) - Seasoned Russian researcher will present many cases, including military pilot's observations. 10:30 - 12:00 AM JAMIE RODRIGUEZ (Equador) (C) - South American investigator brings Indian couple who may be the most extraordinary contactee case ever! 1:00 - 2:30 PM Prof. G. C. SHELLHORN (C) - Hear the first release of two years' research into a most unsettling subject - which we can no longer ignore. 2:45 - 3:45 PM JIM DOERTER (C) - Retired Forest Ranger who's own sightings prompted him to contact other forest rangers, will report on many forest sightings. 4:15 - 6:15 PM Dr. LEE SHARGEL (C) - Former NASA scientist breaks silence on gravity wave technology, secret Hubble data, alien contacts, and new Roswell info. 7:30 - ?????? UFO Film Festival Screenings THURSDAY - JAN. 23 Registration Desk Open: 8:30 AM - 8:00 PM Exhibits Open: 8:30 AM - 8:00 PM 9:00 - 10:30 AM Prof. A. J. GEVAERD (Brazil) (C) - Brazil's top researcher reports on their biggest UFO wave ever - which started with a UFO crash & alien capture 11:00 - 12:30 PM ROSEMARY DECKER (C) - Will refresh our memories about early UFO contactee & sightings history, many of which she personally investigated. 1:30 - 6:00 PM "AN AFTERNOON EXPLORING THE REAL HISTORY & STORY OF CHRIST, HUMANITY, THE ALIEN CONNECTION, AND OUR FUTURE": (1:30 - 3:00 PM) Prof. JAMES DEARDORFF (C) - Highly published author presents "Historical Support for Meier-case Revelations of Jesus' True Ministry". (3:00 - 3:30 PM) Col. WENDELLE STEVENS,(Ret.) (C) - First Person Testimony of important, unreleased Billy Meier contact notes, including amazing predictions. (4:00 - 6:00 PM) GIORGIO BONGIOVANNI (Italy) (C) - The Fatima prophecies continue to unfold with the revelations of Giorgio's role, including identification of the Anti Christ and helping the faithful deal with the reality of the Alien presence and our true relationship with the Creator. 7:30 - ??????? UFO Film Festival Screenings FRIDAY - JAN. 24 Registration Desk Open: 8:30 AM - 6:30 PM Exhibits Open: 8:30 AM - 2:00 PM 9:00 - 10:30 AM Col. WENDELLE STEVENS (C) - One of the world's leading UFO researchers will present an amazing slide presentation on "UFOs of the Nineties" 11:00 - 12:30 PM JAMES ANTHONY (C) & JIM DILETOSSO (C) - For the first time, a lieutenant from the N.W.O. takes us behind the scenes. One of his assignments, surveillance of the Meier farm, resulted in extraordinary photos, (verified by J. Diletosso) which have never before been publicly shown. 1:30 - 3:00 PM JORGE MARTIN (Puerto Rico) (C) - Can you say "Chupacabra"? Jorge can - and he'll tell us all about them, plus what else is going on in P.R. 3:15 - 5:00 PM JAIME MAUSSON (Mexico) (C) - Top TV Journalist & UFO Researcher returns with more of his amazing photos and info on Mexico's UFO flap. 6:30 - 7:30 PM Cocktail Hour (Cash Bar) 7:30 - ?????? Banquet & EBE Awards Ceremony, followed by music, dancing and general merriment until your Galactic Souls give out! PLEASE NOTE: Only Speakers with a (C) after their names are confirmed. All speakers listed have been confirmed!!! This schedule is subject to change, if necessary. Rev. 1/1/97 ________________________________________________________________________________ Ossie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 03:22:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA17684; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:42:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:42:20 -0800 Message-ID: <32E6B221.2A34@utm.edu> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:34:41 -0600 From: Mark Mansfield X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael C Slivinski CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Electrets References: <1.5.4.16.19970121170122.29778746@pop.mymail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5eH86.0.5K4.ONgvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1652 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I found the article in Scientific American. I don't have the Year and Month. They were not printing that on the page edges when this was printed. I don't have the magazine, only a copy of the article. The article is titled "The Amateur Scientist: How to make electrets, devices that hold electrostatic charge" by C. L. Stong. I wish I had more, you might check on William Beaty's web site under the Amateur Scientist section and see if they have article indexes you can do a search for this article. Mark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 03:35:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA23011; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 03:09:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 03:09:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32E8504D.6EB2@triode.net.au> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:01:49 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970122023222.009bf858@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9pIjK.0.Pd5.iRqvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1662 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > His experiment uses both polarities. [Osamu Ide,"Increased voltage > phenomenon in a resonant circuit of unconventional magnetic configuration", > Journal of Applied Physics. 77(11), 1 June 1995.]. My library has it, I > could fax it to you if you have a fax machine. I tried to get this paper today but all recent editions of Journal of Applied Physics were missing from the library shelves. Is it possible for you to scan the paper and send to the list? Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 06:27:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA11027; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:11:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:11:06 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:15:44 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Test only - because of bounce-backs Resent-Message-ID: <"7hLNl1.0.Ci2.u5tvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1663 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: test only - because of bounce-backs From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 07:24:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA21531; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:13:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:13:23 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:17:53 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Resent-Message-ID: <"sgtRl2.0.9G5.D0uvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1664 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---snip Greg wrote, >So where did the energy come from? > >>From the magnetic field produced as the domains aligned their >individual magnetic fields. And where does the domain's magnetic >field come from? From the *spinning* electrons in the domains iron >atoms. > >Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. snip--- * = emphasis added I would only add to Greg's comments that _yes_ there is *something* spinning in those magnetic fields --- and that 'something' has the mechanical characteristics of a gyroscope. The postulation here is that these ultra-small mechanical entities spin at "c" and move in any given direction at "c". Moreover, that something (the Gyron) may be far smaller than the 'electron' and we may need to re-examine the mechanical characteristics of the electron itself. As Joe wrote, pg. 9 (TEMOJN, 1984): "13.A. The energy in a magnetic field is the energy which comprises the component parts of the atoms from which the energy comes. "13.B. The energy in a magnetic field is therefore literally Einstein's Equation of E=mc^2. "13.C. The energy in a magnetic field must be moving in a direction at the speed of light and must also have a gyroscopic spin at the speed of light: __ herein lies the mechanical essence of E=mc^2__. "The Kinetic Energy of a moving particle is 1/2MV^2. If the particle is moving with speed V and also rotating about its axis at speed V, then the total Kinetic Energy is 1/2MV^2 (for the rotational motion [not 1/2Iw^2]) which equals MV^2. If V is equal to C, then the total Kinetic Energy is equal to MC^2. (Hypothetically, this particle is mathematically an infinitely small entity which, in a literal and mechanical sense, moves laterally and rotationally to generate a gyroscopic [spiral] helix effect.) "The literal and mechanical configuration of a magnetic field is simply a result of the summation of atom alignment within the material from which the magnetic field is generated." Best regards, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 09:37:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA00618; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:00:22 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:00:22 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:30:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701231630.IAA08864@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"xqHfG1.0.N9.bavvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1665 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin: Send me your snail mail. I will send you the complete patent. Will you please make it available to the whole group. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 10:03:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA12708 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:03:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:03:32 -0800 X-Envelope-From: EkarnsIV@aol.com Thu Jan 23 10:03:29 1997 Received: from emout03.mail.aol.com (emout03.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.94]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA12688 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:03:28 -0800 From: EkarnsIV@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id NAA00653; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:05:38 -0500 (EST) Old-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:05:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970123121030_1211442639@emout03.mail.aol.com> To: mathew3@netspace.net.au, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, antigravity@primenet.com Subject: Re: [Antigravity] [ART] hubbelhalebopp photos! - take it elsewhere, please X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: In a message dated 97-01-23 04:41:21 EST, mathew3@netspace.net.au (Ossie Callanan) writes: << Subj: [Antigravity] [ART] hubbelhalebopp photos! Date: 97-01-23 04:41:21 EST From: mathew3@netspace.net.au (Ossie Callanan) Sender: owner-antigravity@lists.primenet.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, antigravity@primenet.com >From: lizardha@sprynet.com >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:28:43 -0800 >Subject: [ART] hubbelhalebopp photos! >To: art-bell-fans@primenet.com >Sender: owner-art-bell-fans@lists.primenet.com > ><---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> >From: lizardha@sprynet.com >Subject: hubbelhalebopp photos! >To: in_search_of@primenet.com >> Those of us who subscribe to the Anti-Gravity discussion group do so with the understanding that we will stick to topics within a rather narrow defination. Please take a look at the "rules" for posting to the Antigravity list. Although most of us are very interested in the Hale-Bopp question, we can get that information from other sources (like the IOS list). We do not want or need that information here on the Antigravity list, however. So, please stop posting this exteranious stuff, we wish to keep our Antigravity bandwidth free to discuss specific topics related to over-unity engines, anti-gravity research, superconducting and so forth .... If you have something about Hale-Bopp that is of interest to the In-Search-Of group then please post it there, not on the Antigravity list, please. When the Hale-Bopp Comet begins to show signs of an over-unity drive or engine or exhibit superconducting charicturistics, or otherwise "defies" gravity, then I'm sure that those on the Antigravity will be very interested. Even then most of us can get that information elsewhere .... until that time and until we change the "rules", please do not post any more Hale-Bopp information here. Ed Karns Petaluma California PS : I know I speak for at least a half a dozen other Antigravity "subscribers" when I relay the above ... From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 12:46:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA04408; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:06:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:06:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 13:06:56 -0700 (MST) From: Steve Ekwall X-Sender: ekwall2@november To: Evan Soule cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Test only - because of bounce-backs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"akYBJ3.0.n41.-Iyvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1666 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, Evan Soule wrote: > Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:15:44 -0600 > From: Evan Soule > Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > Subject: Test only - because of bounce-backs > Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:11:06 -0800 > Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com > > test only - because of bounce-backs > got it out here at *.freenrg-l users guess you know you'll always get a 'copy' too as your a group member.. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 14:01:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA29504 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:01:37 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:01:37 -0800 X-Envelope-From: zaxfri@hol.gr Thu Jan 23 14:01:29 1997 Received: from prometheus.hol.gr (root@prometheus.hol.gr [194.30.220.120]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA29454 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:01:21 -0800 Hops: 0 Host: eskimo.com. Received: from double (ppp16.ppp9.hol.gr [194.30.208.16]) by prometheus.hol.gr (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23731 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:57:23 -0200 (GMT) Posted-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:57:23 -0200 (GMT) Message-ID: <32E7DF7E.75AC@hol.gr> Old-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:00:30 +0200 From: "Zachary C. Fridman" Reply-To: zaxfri@hol.gr Organization: HOL X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DNMEC flux gate generator design available References: <32E70257.3981@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Please Mr Watson send me the constuction information for your DNMEC . My e-mail is zaxfri@hol.gr Thank you in advance Zachary C.Fridman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 14:28:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA03572 for bilb@eskimo.com; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:28:46 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:28:46 -0800 X-Envelope-From: corthan@juno.com Thu Jan 23 14:28:39 1997 Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA03504 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:28:34 -0800 Received: (from corthan@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id RII16477; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:28:07 EST To: physics@qedqcd.rye.ny.us, hit%ufrj.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, physics.enthusiast@science.org, physics.student@science.org, physics.teacher@science.org, phys-l@uwf.cc.uwf.edu, physics@u.washington.edu Subject: Perpetual motion? Message-ID: <19970124.055013.7455.0.corthan@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-21,29-30,35-36,45-46,49-53 From: corthan@juno.com (Ukina X Kakort) Old-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:28:07 EST X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Dear person(s) recieving this letter, My friend recently proposed to me a possible setup for perpetual motion. It looks like the below: (I don't know how well it comes out on your screens, but it should look fine if you're using Juno with Arial 9 pt font) ________________________________________ | \ | | \--------------------------------------------| | / / \_ | | / / | | | | | | | | 80% NaCl | |--------------------------- | | | | |_| | | | | | distilled water | | | | | |--------------------------------------------------------------------- | *semipermeable membrane is permeable to water, but not NaCl The machine works like this: separate a basin into two compartments using a semipermeable membrane* to act as the barrier between the two. On the left side of the basin, fill the compartment with distilled water to a low height, and on the right side of the basin, fill the comapartment with 80% NaCl to a high height. Block off the middle section of the membrane with some nonpermeable substance. On the top, angle the membrane separating the two compartments so that the NaCl compartment is overhanging the water compartment. With this setup, by osmosis, water would travel from the left compartment into the right compartment. Then, as the water rises on the right side, it would press down on and pass through the semipermeable "overhang" into the left compartment via gravity. Then the water would go throught the cycle again. One reason I proposed as to why this setup doesn't work is that energy input in the form of heat is required for it to work, because osmosis is dependent on the random motion of molecules, and motion is dependent on kinetic energy (i.e., heat). As the water falls from the overhang into the left compartment, kinetic energy in the form of heat is released. Some of the heat is used to help increase the kinetic energy of the molecules below (the distilled water); the rest is released to the environment through the walls of the container. Eventually, all heat would be lost from the system, and the water would freeze solid. I would appreciate any comments about this. Please reply to me personally, since I am not subscribed to any of the mailing lists I sent this out to John Kim Cherry Hill, NJ corthan@juno.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 14:39:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA29084; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:00:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:00:16 -0800 Date: 23 Jan 97 17:01:07 EST From: "Glenn F. Hinton" <103510.1772@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:freenrg-l@eskimo.com" Subject: Re: DNMEC flux gate generator design available Message-ID: <970123220107_103510.1772_IHL138-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"7a0sF3.0.D67.gzzvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1667 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dear Greg, I would very much like construction details for your device. I have never gotten your .Gifs and am not sure why (size?). Anyway please send me what you can. Thanks in advance, Glenn Hinton From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 15:03:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA31920; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:10:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:10:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:16:20 +0100 Message-Id: <199701232216.XAA16729@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Epitaxy From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Tau changes with Newman coil ! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, gwatson@enternet.com.au X-Mailer: Resent-Message-ID: <"Y0yy22.0.Wo7.H7-vo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1668 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, I just came back from Dieter Bauer and we probably have find the solution, why the Newman system works. It depends on the tau=L/((R+(dL/dt)) This new tau time constant comes from the new differentail equatation we just put up. I will post it later, but the tau just alters during the CHARGE time of the coil and the "FLASH" time of the coil, thus the energies drawn from the battery and delivered when the coil is "FLASHED" are DIFFERENT ! When the coil is FLASHED the tau becomes: tau=L/R When it is CHARGED it is: tau=L/((R+(dL/dt)) Thus the energy delivered is different ! I will write up the whole story in more detail soon and post it here. Stay tuned. Regards, Stefan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 18:06:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA16125; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:53:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:53:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32E7D6BC.6937@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:53:08 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970123012026.009a7f60@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3TzdD.0.hx3.mN1wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1669 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > Yes there will be a back EMF since the coil will attempt to compensate for > the addition flux from the ferrite's domains. > > BUT will this "back" EMF be greater than the forward EMF already supplied > by the power source ? > > P.S. > > I'd like to make a graphical .AVI animation of your DNMEC. Please send me > the QuickField project files and a textual description of your final setup > (ie. spacial relationships, construction materials, coil shapes, axles > etc...). Once I am done I will email it back to you and post it on the web > after you approve its accuracy so anyone can download it. > > At 08:50 AM 1/23/97 +1030, you wrote: > >Consider this. > > > >Imagine a stationary rod with a permeability of 1000 in the middle > >of the coil, but we hold its permeability at 1. Let the coil > >current stabilize. Now allow the rod's domains to align to the > >coil's H field. As the domains align, the coil/rod's B field increases > >around 1000 times. The massive back EMF produced would drive massive > >current back into the coil's power source. Hi Epitaxy, With the permeability at 1 lets say the inductance is 1. With the permeability at 1000 lets say the inductance is now 1000. If we had let the coil charge up, we would have no problem accepting the coils field energy would be 1000 greater than if the permeability were 1. Remember the reason we input more energy with the permeability at 1000, is that we must do work against the increasing field of the ferrite's aligning domains. To balance the books we say the coil has converted the input current into a B field, but I believe that view is incorrect. The increased B field energy comes from the aligned domains and NOT the increased input energy. The increased energy is there because it had to oppose the increasing B field from the domains. Sometimes when things bug you and don't make sense, you need to look at the problem from a different view point. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 18:13:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA16204; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:53:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:53:16 -0800 Message-ID: <32E7D7E3.786B@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 07:58:03 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7c4kR2.0.By3.uN1wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1670 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > Greg wrote, > >So where did the energy come from? > > > >>From the magnetic field produced as the domains aligned their > >individual magnetic fields. And where does the domain's magnetic > >field come from? From the *spinning* electrons in the domains iron > >atoms. > > > >Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. > > * = emphasis added Hi Evan, Accepted. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 18:36:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA22688; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:23:52 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:23:52 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:28:31 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970123202350.1bdf2394@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! Resent-Message-ID: <"--r8-3.0.QY5.rq1wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1671 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 05:41 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Folks! > >I read the interesting comments about the apparent overunity coil >arrangement, yet it says a 40watt fluorescent bulb was lit to full >illumination. > >Not to put a damper on any enthusiasm, but light intensity is a highly >subjective thing and although the 6mhz driving signal would make it > >Jon Snell had suggested a simple version of a 'caloric bomb' where two >resistors are used as heaters. One is placed in a tube of water on the >power side (battery) feeding an alleged over-unity circut, the other, >identical resistor/tube of water on the output side should show an >increase in temperature if it was truly over-unity. > For practical everyday mesurments use an RF dummy load. These devices have a resistance that is constant over a wide renge of frequencys and are comonly avaliable 50 ohm 75 ohm 300 ohm and 600 ohm, also usualy tolorate very high power. A simple RMS VOLTAGE mesurment and some aplication of ohm's law will provide true power out. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 18:37:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA23080; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:26:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:26:00 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:30:39 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970123202558.1bdfadb4@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"pZDFV.0.We5.ss1wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1673 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:51 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 04:36 AM 1/22/97 GMT, you wrote: >>On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:09:15 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >> >>>At 03:34 AM 1/20/97 GMT, you wrote: >>>>On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:07 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >>>>[snip] >>>>>ROBB: THERE IS NOTHING TO IT, JUST USE TWO SPOOLS OF WIRE TO WIND YOUR >>>>>CORES. WHEN THEY ARE FINNISHED CROSS CONNECT THEM> >>>>> l l >>>>> l l l >>>>> , l ll >>>>> l l >>>>> like this >>>> >>Robin:I posted the tesla Patent # I do not have a scanner or I would scan >it and post it as a gif. The patent shows a circular coil that just can't be >duplicated with arrows etc.I would assume that there is someone who has >already found this patent, if so, there is enough interest that it would >merrit scanning and posting it.[as an attached file]. > There are many configurations that can be tried that have different >effects. I would try the above configuration and compare it to cross Question: How does one get documentation from a patent number? I would like to see some of these Patents. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 18:38:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA23213; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:26:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:26:50 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:31:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970123202648.1bdff7a2@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: News flash. Resent-Message-ID: <"uvQVr2.0.Zg5.et1wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1674 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 11:02 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >Bob Shannon wrote: >> >> Maxwell wrote: >> >> >You also note that work >> > has been done by the superconductor on the magnet to lift it against the >> > pull of gravity. >> > >> > Question: where did the energy come from to lift the magnet? >> > >> > Maxwell. >> >> An interesting question indeed! >> >> While levitated, no work is being done as strange as this may seem. > Acustic Vibration or ambient noise gives the magnet the energy it needs. It's called The Miesner Effect, and has ben all over the news about 1990 and 1991. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 18:49:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA22992; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:25:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:25:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:29:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970123202509.1bdf2394@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Bifilar Coils Resent-Message-ID: <"NwTrL2.0.3d5.Hs1wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1672 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:27 PM 1/21/97 -0800, Chjarles Ford: >At 09:02 PM 1/21/97 -0600, you wrote: >>At 09:12 AM 1/19/97 -0900, you wrote: >>>At 8:07 PM 1/19/97, Greg Watson wrote: >>>[snip] >>>> >>>>The simulation tends to indicated that bifilar coils will still >>>>have inductance, due to the ferrite domains just below each wire,>>natural >>frequancy determined by the D-factor [transmitiion line effects] and >>the length of the wire. At its resonent frequancy it will radiate and >>receive at almost 100% efficency. >> >>This is an old trick used by HAM radio operators that I had forgoten. a >>pice of co-axel or twisted pair wire that is shorted at 1/4 wave from the >>transmiter is a verry good antenna. coaxial and twisted pair share many fo >>the same effects. >> >>Thanks guys... >>I had forgotten >> >>Charles:IF THIS IS TRUE, ALL ONE WOULD HAVE TO DO IS TO MAKE AN ANTENNA IN >THIS MANNER TO RECEIVE POWER FROM ANY HIGH POWERED RADIO BROADCAST STATION, >OR ANY OTHER HIGH POWERED RF SOURCE. >crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES >WESLEY CROSIAR >PO BOX 268 >SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 > > Yes: As a teenager I had one tuned to WWV Fort Collins CO 10MHz. This coil was about 15 inch diameter and received about 100mV at night. I grew up in San Mateo I Think your receiving conditions in San Andreas will be about the same. Allow me to correct previous post this was about 1/2 wave. Charles Ford clf@startext.net HAM callsign KC5-OWZ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 19:27:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA28907; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:57:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:57:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:02:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701240302.TAA09168@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"kOBQY3.0.Z37.kK2wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1675 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:30 PM 1/23/97 -0600, you wrote: >At 10:51 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >>At 04:36 AM 1/22/97 GMT, you wrote: >>>On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:09:15 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >>> >>>>At 03:34 AM 1/20/97 GMT, you wrote: >>>>>On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:07 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >>>>>[snip] >>>>>>ROBB: THERE IS NOTHING TO IT, JUST USE TWO SPOOLS OF WIRE TO WIND YOUR >>>>>>CORES. WHEN THEY ARE FINNISHED CROSS CONNECT THEM> >>>>>> l l >>>>>> l l l >>>>>> , l ll >>>>>> l l >>>>>> like this >>>>> > >>>Robin:I posted the tesla Patent # I do not have a scanner or I would scan >>it and post it as a gif. The patent shows a circular coil that just can't be >>duplicated with arrows etc.I would assume that there is someone who has >>already found this patent, if so, there is enough interest that it would >>merrit scanning and posting it.[as an attached file]. >> There are many configurations that can be tried that have different >>effects. I would try the above configuration and compare it to cross > >Question: > >How does one get documentation from a patent number? I would like to see >some of these Patents. > >Charles: I am working on it. If I have to I'll scan it myself and post it as an attached file, if there is no objection. DOES ANYONE OBJECT???? crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 19:41:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA32678; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:17:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:17:41 -0800 Message-ID: <32E92055.2427@triode.net.au> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:49:26 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Evan Soule CC: Free Energy List Subject: Re: Photo 7 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Foi1L.0.W-7.Id2wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1676 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Evan Soule wrote: > > Photo 7 > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Name: Oscilloscope_7.gif > Part 1.2 Type: GIF Image (image/gif) > Encoding: base64 Thanks for the GIF's. >From the photos (And I havent even seen the Newman motor concept yet) I guess that the inductance of the coil(s) is decreasing as the rotor moves away from the coil causing the BEMF voltage to be greater than normal according to the formula V = d(Li)/dt = Ldi/dt + idL/dt. The idL/dt component indicates a negative voltage generation due to inductance decrease (and reluctance increase) as the rotor departs the pole peice. My computer simulations for RLC circuits indicate a rise in system energy due to this effect alone. Classical physics predicts that work must be done by the rotor in order to gain this extra energy. Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 20:33:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA08837; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:07:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:07:08 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:13:20 +0100 Message-Id: <199701240413.FAA17910@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: RLC circuits indicate a rise Resent-Message-ID: <"naSEX3.0._92.gL3wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1677 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Evan Soule wrote: >> Name: Oscilloscope_7.gif >> Part 1.2 Type: GIF Image (image/gif) >> Encoding: base64 > >Thanks for the GIF's. > >>From the photos (And I havent even seen the Newman motor concept yet) I >guess that the inductance of the coil(s) is decreasing as the rotor >moves away from the coil causing the BEMF voltage to be greater than >normal according to the formula V = d(Li)/dt = Ldi/dt + idL/dt. The >idL/dt component indicates a negative voltage generation due to >inductance decrease (and reluctance increase) as the rotor departs the >pole peice. > >My computer simulations for RLC circuits indicate a rise in system >energy due to this effect alone. Classical physics predicts that work >must be done by the rotor in order to gain this extra energy. > >Maxwell. > > > Yes, that it is. The term idL/dt makes things happen. Have a look again at my posted message. This comes out, if you solve this diferential equatation above ! Hi, I just came back from Dieter Bauer and we probably have found the solution, why the Newman system works. It depends on the tau=L/((R+(dL/dt)) This new tau time constant comes from the new differentail equatation we just put up. I will post it later, but the tau just alters during the CHARGE time of the coil and the "FLASH" time of the coil, thus the energies drawn from the battery and delivered when the coil is "FLASHED" are DIFFERENT ! When the coil is FLASHED the tau becomes: tau=L/R When it is CHARGED it is: tau=L/((R+(dL/dt)) Thus the energy delivered is different ! I will write up the whole story in more detail soon and post it here. Stay tuned. Regards, Stefan. > -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 20:47:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA11346; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:23:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:23:08 -0800 Message-ID: <32E837AA.1DAF@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:46:42 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: DNMEC generator version 3 simulation results. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nVnB1.0.6n2.fa3wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1678 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Enclosed are the simulation data for my DNMEC generator version 3. These results can be verified by requesting the zip file GWOU3.ZIP. It has ALL the necessary Quick Field files to run the model. The elements changed during the simulation run are the number of Air and Ferrite blocks in the tooth (to simulate the tooth moving toward the air gap) and coil current (to attempt to maintain coil flux constant). A = Tooth block is Air. F = Tooth block is Ferrite. As most of the flux changes occur in the left side of the coil, I used its value as a goal to hold constant. Blocks Pull Coil Current Left flux Right Flux ---------------------------------------------------------- AAAAF 295N 0AM -0.018613Wb -0.006047Wb I now alter a block from air to ferrite and rerun the simulation. AAAFF 362.56n 0AM -0.018686Wb -0.006254Wb Flux flow in the magnetic circuit has increased due to the approach of the ferrite. Pull has increased due to the ferrite being closer to the gap. I now try different coil currents in an attempt to reduce the left hand flux back to its original value. The final result is. AAAFF 363.56N 750AM -0.018612Wb -0.006283Wb Left hand flux is now back to its original value due to the opposing flux flow from the coil current. Note that pull on the ferrite block has increased! The following follows the same sequence. ---------------------------------------------------------- AAFFF 514.78N 750AM -0.018739Wb -0.006525Wb AAFFF 516.54N 2000AM -0.018614Wb -0.006578Wb ---------------------------------------------------------- AFFFF 704.24N 2000AM -0.018835Wb -0.006852Wb AFFFF 706.6N 4250AM -0.018604Wb -0.006954Wb ---------------------------------------------------------- FFFFF 934.79N 4250AM -0.018932Wb -0.007231Wb FFFFF 938.06N 7200AM -0.018618Wb -0.007376Wb ---------------------------------------------------------- The results show the DNMEC generator producing electrical and rotary power directly from the magnetic fields of aligned domains. Or is it from the "Spinning electrons" in the iron atoms that produce the field. Where ever it comes from, its there to be used. OK Evan? Comments? Please reply to the freenrg list server or to me directly if you would like to receive the Quick Field zip file. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 21:02:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA14069; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:38:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:38:24 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:40:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701240440.UAA23009@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"l09J-2.0.kR3.-o3wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1680 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:30 PM 1/23/97 -0600, you wrote: >Question: > >How does one get documentation from a patent number? I would like to see >some of these Patents. > >Charles Ford >clf@startext.net Could be US Patent 512,340 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 21:02:15 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA13753; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:36:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:36:10 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:37:49 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701240437.UAA22704@sweden.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: mrandall@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael Randall Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! Resent-Message-ID: <"9PBFn1.0.pM3.um3wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1679 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:56 PM 1/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >> At any rate, good luck with the circuit, I hope you will share it with >> others so it can be tested and verified. > >Actually, I did divulge the workings and details of this device on >Chips' list some time ago. If people are interested, I can repeat that >information on this list as well. > Yes, I would be interested in this design. Could you send me a copy, or post it on this list (any objections)? I have been looking at Tesla's spark-gap-oscillator power supply (USA Patent 462,418). Did you use a spark gap? Thanks, Michael Randall From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 22:16:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA30641; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:03:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:03:10 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:05:33 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701240605.AAA14365@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"A0y-J3.0.fU7.S25wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1681 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >Question: > >How does one get documentation from a patent number? I would like to see >some of these Patents. > >Charles Ford >clf@startext.net > > Those who live in the State of Illinois may fax requests to the State of Illinois Library at 217-524-0041. Simply list your name, address and phone number, and the patent numbers needed, and they will mail them at 10 cents a page (billed when shipped & due on receipt). They won't send to addresses outside Illinois. Zack w9sz@prairienet.org -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 23:43:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA16440; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:36:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:36:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:42:20 +0100 Message-Id: <199701222342.AAA11009@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: w9sz@prairienet.org From: harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re:Electrets are it ! Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"uExaH.0.m04.jHgvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1651 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >> >>At 05:45 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >>>Hi Wes! Well, intriguing post as you mentioned in our conversation last >>>night....yep, I copied it off and will have to try that. There is a >>>catalog (name I can't remember) which advertises information on electret >>>batteries, but yours is the first I've seen where it was spelled out. >>>The advertisement said some people were able to get substantial power >>>(enough to drive a home) with stacks of these....thanks for posting it! >>>-- >>> Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com >>> http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" >>> Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 >>> KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 >>>FOR THOSE THAT CAN'T GET LUCITE, TRY USING PARAFIN. >>> >>> >>crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES > >Isn't Lucite the same thing as Plexiglas (acrylic plastic)? > Inside the Methernitha Testatika device, they use Plexiglas discs ! It seems to have the right properties ! >The electrets I mentioned were made of ceramics, if I remember correctly. >I'm still looking for the article. Yeah, I am very interested. Please let me know how to make a perfect electret ! I also did NOT get ONE comment about my proposal of the resonance-catastrophe motor, using a LC circuit with a mechanical coupled magnet-electret circuit ! Did you all get the ASCII graphic of it ? Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 23 23:53:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA17503; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:43:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:43:00 -0800 Message-ID: <32E86AFB.2E38@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:55:39 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! References: <199701240437.UAA22704@sweden.it.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ISTvg.0.KH4.2W6wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1682 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for your reply. Since there was so much response to this thread, rather than reply to everyone individually, I will be posting all of the relavent information on my web page, including specific answers to your questions. Please check the URL below in about 2-3 weeks. Thanks for your patience. Michael Randall wrote: > > At 10:56 PM 1/22/97 -0800, you wrote: > >> At any rate, good luck with the circuit, I hope you will share it with > >> others so it can be tested and verified. > > > >Actually, I did divulge the workings and details of this device on > >Chips' list some time ago. If people are interested, I can repeat that > >information on this list as well. > > > Yes, I would be interested in this design. Could you send me a copy, or post > it on this list (any objections)? I have been looking at Tesla's > spark-gap-oscillator power supply (USA Patent 462,418). Did you use a spark > gap? > > Thanks, Michael Randall -- Phil Gantt And in the end the Love you take is equal to the Love you make. ***Lennon/McCartney*** http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html (updated 1/18/97) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 00:07:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA17816; Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:44:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:44:44 -0800 Message-ID: <32E86B65.4EE1@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:57:25 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! References: <1.5.4.16.19970123202350.1bdf2394@startext.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pZr2G1.0.IM4.gX6wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1683 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Thanks for your reply. Since there was so much response to this thread, rather than reply to everyone individually, I will be posting all of the relavent information on my web page, including specific answers to your questions. Please check the URL below in about 2-3 weeks. Thanks for your patience. Charles Ford wrote: > > At 05:41 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi Folks! > > > >I read the interesting comments about the apparent overunity coil > >arrangement, yet it says a 40watt fluorescent bulb was lit to full > >illumination. > > > >Not to put a damper on any enthusiasm, but light intensity is a highly > >subjective thing and although the 6mhz driving signal would make it > > > > > >Jon Snell had suggested a simple version of a 'caloric bomb' where two > >resistors are used as heaters. One is placed in a tube of water on the > >power side (battery) feeding an alleged over-unity circut, the other, > >identical resistor/tube of water on the output side should show an > >increase in temperature if it was truly over-unity. > > > For practical everyday mesurments use an RF dummy load. These devices have > a resistance that is constant over a wide renge of frequencys and are > comonly avaliable 50 ohm 75 ohm 300 ohm and 600 ohm, also usualy tolorate > very high power. A simple RMS VOLTAGE mesurment and some aplication of > ohm's law will provide true power out. Actually I did this. The details will be posted per the above message. > > Charles Ford > clf@startext.net -- Phil Gantt And in the end the Love you take is equal to the Love you make. ***Lennon/McCartney*** http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html (updated 1/18/97) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 00:47:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA01598; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:22:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:22:26 -0800 Message-ID: <32E880EB.73BE@gorge.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:29:15 -0800 From: tom@gorge.net (Tom Miller) Reply-To: tom@gorge.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. References: <199701240447.UAA15907@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"k0YOq1.0.tO.157wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1684 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I wonder if anyone besides me is becoming more confused about Bifilar coils as more is written about them? On the off chance that there are others who are similarly confused, allow me to pose some simple questions, which, when answered by someone who understands such coils, will keep us on the right track. I Consider an insulated wire, with ends A and B. Fold the wire in two, at the middle of the wire M. Now, we wind a coil with say, 100 turns, beginning with M, and finishing with A and B. We have kept the segments A-M and B-M closely parallel at all times in the winding. 1. If, at this point, we connected A and B to + and -, respectively, is this a bifilar coil, or, if not, what is it. II Now, we cut the middle of the wire at M. Now we have TWO wires, which we will call A-A1, and B-B1. (A1 and B1 are the new ends we have made by cutting at M.) 2. If we connect A and B to +, and A1 and B1 to -, do we have anything, except an "oddly wound regular coil?" Would we get the same "amp turns" as we would using normal winding, but 1/2 the amps? III Now, instead of the above, connect A to +, A1 to -, B to -, and B1 to +. 3. What do we have now? 4. Which of the above scenarios produces a "Scalar field." 5. Which produces a capacitative effect? 6. In which are the wires NOT mutually inductive? 7. In scenario III, Is the magnetic field produced the same as it would be if wire AB were wound normally, ie from A to B. 8. In which would the coil respond to external magnetic fields differently than a normal coil? 9. In which would the coil have the same effect (as a normal coil) on a secondary coil, either wound on the same core, or nearby, as in a Tesla Coil? 10. In which could the internal capacitance be used as part of the capacitance in a tuned circuit (Tesla Coil, or radio)? Please, anyone who knows, any answer you give will help the rest of us understand. Tom Miller From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 01:31:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA16587; Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:52:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:52:59 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:22:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701221822.KAA08273@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"ssOBo3.0.714.u6cvo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1646 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:51 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 04:36 AM 1/22/97 GMT, you wrote: >>On Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:09:15 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >> >>>At 03:34 AM 1/20/97 GMT, you wrote: >>>>On Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:14:07 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >>>>[snip] >>>>>ROBB: THERE IS NOTHING TO IT, JUST USE TWO SPOOLS OF WIRE TO WIND YOUR >>>>>CORES. WHEN THEY ARE FINNISHED CROSS CONNECT THEM> >>>>> l l >>>>> l l l >>>>> , l ll >>>>> l l >>>>> like this >>>> >>>>Wes, this connection diagram gives the impression that you connected the >>>>start of one wire to the end of the other. Is this so? (Or did you connect >>>>the start of one wire to the start or the other? >>>> >>>>> flows like this>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+ >>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<- =positive and nagative plates >>>>>of a capacitor.=tuning=storage. >>>>[snip] >>>>Regards, >>>> >>>>Robin van Spaandonk >>>> >>>connect the start of one with the end of the other, measure with an ohm >>>meter to make sure you don't get mixed up.> >>[snip] >>Wes, compare your reply to that from Bob: >>"You can >>simply short the adjacent conductors at each end of the cable with two >>conductors free on one end, of one free at each end depending on the >>number of conductors in your ribbon cable." >> >>This still leaves me in some doubt as to your definition of start and end. >>I.e. I would have gone Bob's way, and called the ends of the conductors in >>the same place either the start or the end. see picture (words fail me) ;) >> >> >>start _____________________________________ end >>(of both) _____________________________________ (of both). >> >>If you haven't connected 'start to start' *or* 'end to end', then you >>haven't got a bifilar coil. You just have an ordinary coil that is wound a >>bit strangely. This might explain the measurement values you obtained. >> Robin: I was tired last night and did not answer your question properly. Here is the way that the tesla patent shows the bifilar winding. CENTER++++++++++++++++++++++++++++OUTSIDE positive goes here l l l l l l l l l l l l negative here CENTER-------------------------------OUTSIDE If you study this carefully I believe that you will discover that it is a mirror wound coil that has natural capacatance. In other words one wire follows a "left hand rule", the other wire follows a "right hand rule" this cancels out the self inductance. Since one wire is positive and the other is negative, you also have natural capacatance. THE WIRES IN THE TESLA PATENT "ARE" CONNECTED AS SHOWN ABOVE. THEY ARE NOT SIMPLY CONNECTET AT ONE END. If they were connected together at one end, both wires would be wound the same way and you would not have mirror wound coils. Could someone who is better with words please explain mirror wound coils, I understand how they work, but can't verbalize it clear enough so that everyone has a clear understanding. crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 02:23:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA18482; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:03:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 02:03:04 -0800 Message-ID: <32E88507.29C8@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 20:16:47 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: DNMEC generator version 3.1 simulation results. Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1502C5573EF" Resent-Message-ID: <"DHHy_.0.eW4.MZ8wo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1685 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1502C5573EF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Enclosed are the simulation data for my DNMEC generator version 3.1. Attached is the updated model file gwou3a.mod. The only change is a finer mesh structure to allow a finer detail around the tooth and coil. The coil currents are higher due to the finer mesh. Replace the old model file with this file. You should then be able to verify the following data. These results can be verified by requesting the zip file GWOU3.ZIP. It has ALL the necessary Quick Field files to run the model. The elements changed during the simulation run are the number of Air and Ferrite blocks in the tooth (to simulate the tooth moving toward the air gap) and coil current (to attempt to maintain coil flux constant). A = Tooth block is Air. F = Tooth block is Ferrite. The linking flux was calculated using the coil block, I used its value as a goal to hold constant. Blocks Pull Coil Current Linking Flux ---------------------------------------------------------- AAAAF 318.48N 0AM -0.012354Wb @ 176.6 Deg I now alter a block from air to ferrite and rerun the simulation. AAAFF 465.24N 0AM -0.012488Wb @ 172 Deg Flux flow in the magnetic circuit has increased due to the approach of the ferrite. Pull has increased due to the ferrite being closer to the gap. I now try different coil currents in an attempt to reduce the linking flux back to its original value. The final result is. AAAFF 472.27N 4,750AM -0.012349Wb @ 172 Deg Linking flux is now back to its original value due to the opposing flux flow from the coil current. Note that pull on the ferrite block has increased! The following follows the same sequence. ---------------------------------------------------------- AAFFF 675.95N 4,750AM -0.012540Wb @ 172.5 Deg AAFFF 684.06N 11,125AM -0.012353Wb ---------------------------------------------------------- AFFFF 953.16N 11,125AM -0.012618Wb @ 169.6 Deg AFFFF 962.95N 20,800AM -0.012332Wb @ 169.2 Deg ---------------------------------------------------------- FFFFF 1,231.4N 20,800AM -0.012689Wb @ 153.8 Deg FFFFF 1,246.1N 32,000AM -0.012349Wb @ 153.2 Deg ---------------------------------------------------------- The results show the DNMEC generator producing electrical and rotary power directly from the magnetic fields of aligned domains. Or is it from the "Spinning electrons" in the iron atoms that produce the field. Where ever it comes from, its there to be used. OK Evan? Comments? Please reply to the freenrg list server or to me directly if you would like to receive the Quick Field zip file. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au --------------1502C5573EF Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Gwou3a.mod" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Gwou3a.mod" RU0gMzAwtIHpMgAAXABBAB4ACQCOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIA/AACAPwAAAAAAAFlAAADuAQAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAsnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAADAGsAAgALJwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAwABAIYA CycAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAMAgwAGAAsnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgADAAUAbQALJwAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAMA//8TAIkACycAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAP//JQAfAAsnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwD//yEA PQALJwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIA//+vAB0ACycAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAP//DwAUAAsnAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAD//xEACAALJwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA//8SABYACycAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP// VAAaAAsnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD//08AHAALJwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEA//+UABgACycAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABAP//SgAQAAsnAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD//0YAIAALJwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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2iywPqMAAQBBaXIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQBQZXJtYWxsb3kgNjUAAAAAAQBQbGV4aS1nbGFz cwAAAAAAAgBaZXJvIEVkZ2UAAAAAAAAAAQBTdGVlbAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQBDb3BwZXIAAAAA AAAAAAAAAgBDb2lsIFIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQBBTE5JQ08g3AAAAAAAAAAAAgBDb2lsIEwAAAAA AAAAAAAA --------------1502C5573EF-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 06:42:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA14706; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:04:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:04:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:09:06 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970124080336.3e076314@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! Resent-Message-ID: <"GtUwv1.0.db3.c5Cwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1686 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:37 PM 1/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 10:56 PM 1/22/97 -0800, you wrote: >>> At any rate, good luck with the circuit, I hope you will share it with >>> others so it can be tested and verified. >> >>Actually, I did divulge the workings and details of this device on >>Chips' list some time ago. If people are interested, I can repeat that >>information on this list as well. >> >Yes, I would be interested in this design. Could you send me a copy, or post >it on this list (any objections)? I have been looking at Tesla's >spark-gap-oscillator power supply (USA Patent 462,418). Did you use a spark >gap? > >Thanks, Michael Randall Yes, I am also interested, private or on this posting. thanks mike s. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 06:57:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA22552; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:46:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:46:04 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:50:48 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields Resent-Message-ID: <"UE3hF.0.IW5.giCwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1687 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'll be forwarding 4 gifs --- 1) Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in ATTRACTION - Top 1/2 View 2) Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in ATTRACTION - Bottom 1/2 View 3) Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in REPULSION - Top 1/2 View 4) Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in REPULSION - Bottom 1/2 View I apologize if the details are difficult to read at the recipient's end -- the Drawings are somewhat large and detailed; trying to keep the size at under 40K while maintaining the image was somewhat challenging. They were first scanned as Greyscale 256; then scanned as line art; then re-scanned repeatedly at different dpi/size/brightness settings.... These gifs qualitatively depict [as a 2-dimensional 'slice' of a 3-dimensional field] the mechanical interactions of gyrons between simple bar magnets as first developed by J. Newman in the 1960s and published in 1984. With more exotic configurations (such as the dynamic interaction of a coil and magnetic rotor) the depictions would be far more complex. Long-term goal: 3-D Animation of the gyrons utilizing a computer program capable of various field configurations and real-time adjustments. Best regards, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html P.S. Since I don't want to take any chance (however remote) of overloading Bill's server system I won't post all 4 gifs at one time, but will space out their posting...about 1 every 1-2 hours. My system is telling me that each gif is 33K. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 06:58:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA22594; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:46:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:46:25 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1358001442==_============" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:50:54 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in ATTRACTION - Top 1/2 View Resent-Message-ID: <"GEMRC1.0.wW5.-iCwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1688 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: --============_-1358001442==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in ATTRACTION - Top 1/2 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X-Envelope-From: josephnewman@earthlink.net Fri Jan 24 08:07:09 1997 Received: from iberia.it.earthlink.net (iberia-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.119]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA11505 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:07:05 -0800 Received: from [153.34.203.145] (Cust17.Max8.New-Orleans.LA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.203.145]) by iberia.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20683 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 08:09:56 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1357996599==_============" Old-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:11:37 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in ATTRACTION - Bottom 1/2 View X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: --============_-1357996599==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 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multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1357993045==_============" Old-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:10:51 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in REPULSION - Top 1/2 View X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: --============_-1357993045==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in REPULSION - Top 1/2 View --============_-1357993045==_============ Content-Type: image/gif; name="Mag._Field_Repul._Top_View.gif" ; x-mac-type="47494666" ; x-mac-creator="53744D6C" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Mag._Field_Repul._Top_View.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhIgS0AfcAAP//////zP//mf//Zv//M///AP/M///MzP/Mmf/MZv/MM//MAP+Z //+ZzP+Zmf+ZZv+ZM/+ZAP9m//9mzP9mmf9mZv9mM/9mAP8z//8zzP8zmf8zZv8zM/8z 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spain.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23001 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:38:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1357991270==_============" Old-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:40:26 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in REPULSION - Bottom 1/2 View X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: --============_-1357991270==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Qualitative/Mechanical Depiction of Magnetic Fields in REPULSION - Bottom 1/2 View --============_-1357991270==_============ Content-Type: image/gif; name="Mag._Field_Repul._Lower_View.gi" ; x-mac-type="47494666" ; x-mac-creator="53744D6C" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Mag._Field_Repul._Lower_View.gi" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Resent-Message-ID: <"KQL5L3.0._Q5.mXEwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1689 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi Greg, I download recently the latest version 3.4 and I have merge maglib to make a new mathlib. I could solve the problem of missing material descriptor. I have an other probleme with the second file gwou3b.mod" because I haven't sufficient mesh to run the simulation (my version have only 500 run nodes....). Have you a good solution or could you give me the good spacing for building mesh ? Concerning the magnetic material what do think of the use of MetGlass, it's a very powerfull magnetic core material : "Amorphous Metal transformer core alloy used in the core of electrical distribution transformers can reduce energy losses significantly. They use 60% to 70% less energy than today's most efficient silicon steel cores. Compared to older or less efficient silicon steel cores made today, amorphous metal cores can save over 80% of the wasted energy. " Nice to speak with you soon. Jean-Louis Naudin Email: JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 10:07:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA07149 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:07:35 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:07:35 -0800 X-Envelope-From: josephnewman@earthlink.net Fri Jan 24 10:07:32 1997 Received: from spain.it.earthlink.net (spain-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.66]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA07125 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:07:28 -0800 Received: from [153.34.200.70] (Cust2.Max1.New-Orleans.LA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.200.2]) by spain.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26599 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:10:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1357989375==_============" Old-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:12:01 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Close-up of Periphery Spins/Mags. in Attraction X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: --============_-1357989375==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've attached a gif file depicting a close-up of the periphery spins for bar magnets in *attraction* -- scanned at greyscale 256. I hope it reads considerably clearer than the line art scans. 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6AJoIvqQJOHmIMJwu/6+LoEtF9kzX0Goo2gISxLn0N6XK+bLfQRbuvOyLxVrAsVsx3Q/ 7kUVFeJuR+3Sxo5eW4xp2mo79ZCmQG216NOZPTkX6AYORyShMOmx6GJGqy5rErVcezIM itYfo+PxKcSWXC1smDFs87nt2cSzYTY0aIJQ+/lyDzbfuKDWrW0+F2nUf/tHNhLQv27D QQSgVy2+qgFE6InvrZ+mZ2bFDlaAV9GWPpow9JR0Spi2WeWxba5O3ywuzem7Za6oUBnD Cdaa63le2520Cd0C8wazUwCqawIGbv9UxKooteYoRfJmDABSdPFtdFTVV6sy86/ebjQW XS0HWDENC81RGOY8IKuu8QsMdJ84wVZbvHChHSY7GMaxG97zExifE2RxmI6oky6j7LUs 9BdnOf+5alyd9FQP3dCw5Mj2jYAAOw== --============_-1357989375==_============-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 12:28:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA23310; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:18:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:18:25 -0800 Message-ID: <32E8C567.7A96@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:21:27 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"JjJkN.0.7i5._hGwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1690 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Epitaxy wrote: > > >If the core is attracted, it takes energy from the coil, right? > > No. The only energy taken from the coil is that necessary to cause > domain alignment and in modern ferrite material that energy is > VERY low. Ok, lets look into this a bit deeper: I measure the total energy over time used by an electromagnet to reach full static current through the coil. This is energy X1. Assume I place an electromagnet over a bit of iron. I energise the electromagnet while the iron is fixed in place, and again measure the total energy to reach full field strenght, and a static coil current. This is energy X2, which is greater than X1, as we have done work to align the domains of the iron. Indeed, this may be a small differance, but this in itself is no matter. Now then, I release the bit of iron, and it is attracted to the electromagnet. Several things happen here: As the iron is attracted, it takes more flux, and thereby alters the inductance of the electromagnet. As the inductance changes (increases) additional current flows into the electromagnet! This additional current is energy X3. As energy X3 exists, and can be measured, how can we claim the following: > >> Is this > > >not where the energy for the acceleration of the core is coming from? > > No. The energy for the acceleration of the rod is supplied by the > rod's aligned domains. This answer seems to state that the acceleration is due to energy X2, but energy X2 is less than (X2 + X3), or the total energy to attract that bit of iron. This being the case, X2 is not the correct answer. > Consider this. > > Imagine a stationary rod with a permeability of 1000 in the middle > of the coil, but we hold its permeability at 1. Let the coil > current stabilize. Now allow the rod's domains to align to the > coil's H field. As the domains align, the coil/rod's B field increases > around 1000 times. The massive back EMF produced would drive massive > current back into the coil's power source. > > So where did the energy come from? How did you 'hold' the permieability at 1? Did this take energy? Where is this energy in this model? > Consider this. > > A ferrite rod and permanent magnet are attracted to each other > by the magnetic fields both produce. The force is being generated > by the aligned domains in each material. No outside energy source > is involved here. > > If we release the rod, it will accelerate toward to magnet and its > kinetic energy will increase. Again, no outside energy source > is involved here, but the rod's kinetic energy is still increasing. > > Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. Wrong! External energy IS used here! Try this with an electromagent! > Remember Over Unity systems will obey natural law, but be seen to > work in ways which will tend to seem strange, seem to be country to > our normal way of looking at energy systems and you are right, they > will "bug us". But they will still work. Please show (experimentally) that as the rod is attracted, increasing the inductance of the coil, that no additional current will flow. This does not describe reality! We can in fact 'weigh' the attracted material by the increase in current as it approaches the electromagnet! Given this, where is ANY evidence for DNMEC? I hope this can be resolved before people invest a lot of time, effort and money building devices based on Greg's DNMEC theory. I also hope that half the effort currently going into explaining how Mr. Newman's machines "work" would go into actual proof that they do indeed work. This has not been proven here as yet. As a direct result of this, the Newman discussion was moved to another list. If we are now going to explore theories as to why Newman's machine works as it does, we have better first resolve just how it works, and then decide IF any new theory is needed. The question of self running has never been addressed, as methods that do not directly couple the input and outputs have been suggested, and bypass the counter motoring arguments. Also, the fact that batteries are needed, but capacitors will not work clearly shows that if more of something IS comming out, it is not quite the same thing we call electromagnetic energy today. I think the cart is well out in front of the horse here! Freenrg-l is not for pie in the sky theory, but for experimental works. A simple test will show that additional current does indeed flow as the iron is attracted to the electromagnet. A theory that explains how Newman's machine "works" is premature given the unaddressed questions as to IF Newman's machine works as is claimed. We seem to be quite close to 'pie in the sky' here. So, where do we go next? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 12:28:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA23890; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:20:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:20:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32E8C5CD.4CBA@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:23:09 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QK22a3.0.Iq5.ZjGwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1691 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Miller wrote: > I Consider an insulated wire, with ends A and B. > Fold the wire in two, at the middle of the wire > M. Now, we wind a coil with say, 100 turns, > beginning with M, and finishing with A and B. > We have kept the segments A-M and B-M closely > parallel at all times in the winding. > > 1. If, at this point, we connected > A and B to + and -, respectively, is this > a bifilar coil, or, if not, what is it. Yes, this is a bifilar wound coil. > II Now, we cut the middle of the wire at M. Now we > have TWO wires, which we will call A-A1, and B-B1. (A1 > and B1 are the new ends we have made by cutting at M.) > > 2. If we connect A and B to +, and A1 and B1 > to -, do we have anything, except an "oddly > wound regular coil?" Would we get the same > "amp turns" as we would using normal winding, > but 1/2 the amps? You have still have a bifilar wound coil, the connections of the one folded, or two seperate conductors are not a factor in 'bifilar' winding. What you have here if I follow your description correctly, is simply two conventional windings in parallel. This will have half the DC resistance, so the steady state DC current will be greater, not lower. > III Now, instead of the above, connect A to +, A1 to -, > B to -, and B1 to +. > > 3. What do we have now? Again, if I have followed this correctly, we now have opposed current directions flowing through coils wound in the same direction. This configuration is often used as a filimanent choke in RF amplifiers, to keep RF AC currents out of the power supply. One end of the coil (two conductors) goes to the tube, and the other two to the filimanent supply transformer. > 4. Which of the above scenarios produces > a "Scalar field." Fed with DC, none of the above! To produce a scalar, you need to have opposed, changing flux that undergoes true superposition such that the flux is not expressed, and liberates the free potnentials only. A static current will only yeild highly distorted flux, but no superposition. > 5. Which produces a capacitative effect? > > 6. In which are the wires NOT mutually > inductive? The wires of a true bifilar coil have high mutal inductance reguardless of how they are connected externally to the coil. An opposed bifilar coil will not have high mutual inductance with other, external coils. > 7. In scenario III, Is the magnetic field > produced the same as it would be if wire AB > were wound normally, ie from A to B. If opposed currents flow through bifilar windings, the magnetic flux from each will be in opposition, but static opposed flux does not a scalar wave make. > 8. In which would the coil respond to external > magnetic fields differently than a normal coil? In an opposed case, equal and opposite currents would be induced by a change in applied flux, and result in no current in the coil. This is quite different from a conventional coil, which would have an induced current. > 9. In which would the coil have the > same effect (as a normal coil) on a secondary > coil, either wound on the same core, or nearby, > as in a Tesla Coil? With the two conductors in parallel, with each coil connected to the other at the same ends of the coil form (in parallel, aiding). This is really a single coil with a larger conductor. > 10. In which could the internal capacitance > be used as part of the capacitance in a tuned > circuit (Tesla Coil, or radio)? Probably all of the above. An opposed bifilar coil, without any significant external field stores nearly no 'energy' in it's 'non field', so we will not see a conventional resonance response as with a conventional coil, so in practice, this is not so easy to test. Each half of the opposed coil still "maintains the conditions of resonance" but "reduces electromagnetic radiation to an insignificant quantity". Do these quotes sound familiar to any Tesla fans? These words, and a few other really critical statements come from a single paragraph Tesla wrote. Anyone who questions what Tesla was talking about when he used the terms longitudinal waves would do well to read this paragraph. I'll post the whole paragraph and referances to the work it appears in of there is interest. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 13:24:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA32239; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:51:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:51:32 -0800 Message-ID: <32E915F1.2EE3@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:05:05 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! References: <1.5.4.16.19970124080336.3e076314@pop.mymail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"59hdf1.0.Zt7.-AHwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1692 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael C Slivinski wrote: > > At 08:37 PM 1/23/97 -0800, you wrote: > >At 10:56 PM 1/22/97 -0800, you wrote: > >>> At any rate, good luck with the circuit, I hope you will share it with > >>> others so it can be tested and verified. > >> > >>Actually, I did divulge the workings and details of this device on > >>Chips' list some time ago. If people are interested, I can repeat that > >>information on this list as well. > >> > >Yes, I would be interested in this design. Could you send me a copy, or post > >it on this list (any objections)? I have been looking at Tesla's > >spark-gap-oscillator power supply (USA Patent 462,418). Did you use a spark > >gap? > > > >Thanks, Michael Randall > > Yes, I am also interested, private or on this posting. > thanks mike s. Since there have been so many requests, I will be posting the info on my page below within 3 weeks. Stay posted. -- Phil Gantt And in the end the Love you take is equal to the Love you make. ***Lennon/McCartney*** http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html (updated 1/18/97) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 13:27:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA01011; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:00:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:00:36 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:02:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199701242002.AA29127@lafn.org> From: ad368@lafn.org (Jim Day) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: booklist -- electrets Reply-To: ad368@lafn.org Resent-Message-ID: <"dqQ883.0.WF.UJHwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1693 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: The books listed below may be of interest to those planning to experiment with electrets and electrostatic motors. SOME BOOKS ABOUT ELECTRETS AND ELECTROSTATIC MOTORS Gross, Bernhard. Charge storage in solid dielectrics: a bibliographical review on the electret and related effects. Elsevier, 1964. Hilczer, Bozena, and Jerzy Malecki. Electrets. Elsevier, 1986. Jefimenko, Oleg. Electrostatic motors: their history, types, and principles of operation. Electret Scientific, 1973. Sessler, G(erhard) M(artin), ed. Electrets. Springer-Verlag, 1987. Turnhout, J. van. Thermally stimulated discharge of polymer electrets: a study on nonisothermal dielectric relaxation phenomena. Elsevier, 1974. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 13:52:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA12401; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:53:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:53:40 -0800 Message-ID: <32E922F5.2B31@plix.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:00:37 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tom@gorge.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. References: <199701240447.UAA15907@mx1.eskimo.com> <32E880EB.73BE@gorge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2eZU2.0.g13.H5Iwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1695 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Tom Miller wrote: > > I wonder if anyone besides me is becoming more > confused about Bifilar coils as more is written > about them? On the off chance that there are > others who are similarly confused, allow me to > pose some simple questions, which, when answered > by someone who understands such coils, will keep > us on the right track. snip > > Please, anyone who knows, any answer you give will help > the rest of us understand. > > Tom Miller Bifilar windings reduce leakage inductance but increase transformer capacitance. A bifilar transformer is simply taking the the primary wire and the secondary wire and, holding them together, winding them around the core. In comparison, a more traditional transformer may have the primary wound around the core, and when that is finished, the secondary is wound over the primary winding; or, wound next to the primary, but around the same core. There are many possible configurations, but only bifilar has the primary and secondary wire side-by-side wound together. A good referance for transformer winding is Transformer and Inductor Design Handbook by Colonel Wm. T. McLyman, (C) 1978 by Marcel Dekker, Inc., NY. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 13:56:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA05492; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:24:23 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:24:23 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970124122816.00685fac@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 12:28:18 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bshannon@tiac.net From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8unTD1.0.eL1.rfHwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1694 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MY ANSWERS ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW At 02:21 PM 1/24/97 +0000, you wrote: > Greg Watson wrote: > >> Epitaxy wrote: > > No. The only energy taken from the coil is that necessary to cause > domain alignment and in modern ferrite material that energy is > VERY low. > >Ok, lets look into this a bit deeper: > >I measure the total energy over time used by an electromagnet to reach >full static current through the coil. This is energy X1. > >Assume I place an electromagnet over a bit of iron. I energise the >electromagnet while the iron is fixed in place, and again measure the >total energy to reach full field strenght, and a static coil current. Practical note: The current in the coil should never be allowed to build up to the I=E/R level. The R of the coil is a bad way to limit the current, charging time should be used instead. >This is energy X2, which is greater than X1, as we have done work to >align the domains of the iron. Indeed, this may be a small differance, >but this in itself is no matter. Yes, but please note that these two instances are different because the coil is discharged between these two instances (these are two separate experiments X1 & X2) >Now then, I release the bit of iron, and it is attracted to the >electromagnet. > >Several things happen here: > >As the iron is attracted, it takes more flux, and thereby alters the >inductance of the electromagnet. As the inductance changes (increases) >additional current flows into the electromagnet! > >This additional current is energy X3. When you write "...flows into the electromagnet !" I assume you mean "...additional current from the power supply flows into the electromagnet !". If the above interpretation is correct than I am sorry to inform you that you are wrong. The power supply current draw will DECREASE in response to the approaching iron. I have verified this experimentally. This supply current decrease apparently happens because the coil induces a current in its windings in the opposite direction (-+ +-) to the current supplied by the power supply. When these two currents are superposed the result is a decrease in the overall coil current. It follows that the response of the coil is to compensate by decreasing total coil current, in order to keep the magnetic flux "seen" by the coil constant. This means that IF the coil was NOT compensating for this change the flux "seen" by the coil would INCREASE ! The EMF induced in the coil flows in such direction as to oppose the increase in flux caused by the approaching iron. > >As energy X3 exists, and can be measured, how can we claim the >following: > >> >> Is this >> > >not where the energy for the acceleration of the core is coming from? >> >> No. The energy for the acceleration of the rod is supplied by the >> rod's aligned domains. > >This answer seems to state that the acceleration is due to energy X2, >but energy X2 is less than (X2 + X3), or the total energy to attract >that bit of iron. You are making an error by equaling the coil current to coil energy. You are neglecting the charge/discharge time difference. This Charge/Discharge time interval changes because the inductance changes. The closer the iron the higher the inductance. The current X3 is smaller than X2 (verified experimentally by observing the supply current decrease as a ferrite core approaches). BUT ! Just because X3 is smaller than X2 does NOT mean that the smaller current (X3) flowing through the coil represents smaller energy because of the time factor. For example: (assuming ideal components) 1) We can charge an air core coil to X2 in 1 second 2) X2 now flows through the coil 3) NOW we let the ferrite be attracted to the coil 4) X3 now flows through the coil 5) Coil's inductance has risen 100 times 6) Ferrite's domains become aligned 7) X3 is 10 times smaller than X2 8) We can recover ALL of the energy in #1 by discharging the current X3 for 10 seconds. Note current X2 flowing for 1 second is the same amount of energy as current X3 for 10 seconds (X2=X3 * 10) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 14:07:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA29033 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:06:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:06:59 -0800 X-Envelope-From: josephnewman@earthlink.net Fri Jan 24 14:06:56 1997 Received: from cyprus.it.earthlink.net (cyprus-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.65]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA28977 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:06:53 -0800 Received: from [153.34.200.100] (Cust100.Max1.New-Orleans.LA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.200.100]) by cyprus.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02457 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:09:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1357975012==_============" Old-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:11:24 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Close-up of Periphery Spins/Mags. in Attraction X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: --============_-1357975012==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've attached a gif file depicting a close-up of the gyron periphery interactions for bar magnets in *attraction* -- scanned at greyscale 256. I hope it reads considerably clearer than the line art scans. 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6AJoIvqQJOHmIMJwu/6+LoEtF9kzX0Goo2gISxLn0N6XK+bLfQRbuvOyLxVrAsVsx3Q/ 7kUVFeJuR+3Sxo5eW4xp2mo79ZCmQG216NOZPTkX6AYORyShMOmx6GJGqy5rErVcezIM itYfo+PxKcSWXC1smDFs87nt2cSzYTY0aIJQ+/lyDzbfuKDWrW0+F2nUf/tHNhLQv27D QQSgVy2+qgFE6InvrZ+mZ2bFDlaAV9GWPpow9JR0Spi2WeWxba5O3ywuzem7Za6oUBnD Cdaa63le2520Cd0C8wazUwCqawIGbv9UxKooteYoRfJmDABSdPFtdFTVV6sy86/ebjQW XS0HWDENC81RGOY8IKuu8QsMdJ84wVZbvHChHSY7GMaxG97zExifE2RxmI6oky6j7LUs 9BdnOf+5alyd9FQP3dCw5Mj2jYAAOw== --============_-1357975012==_============-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 14:53:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA18349; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:21:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:21:26 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970124132521.009b0040@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 13:25:23 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bshannon@tiac.net From: Epitaxy Subject: New Lamp - correction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"dv1FW3.0.dU4.KVIwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1696 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: MY ANSWERS ARE FILLED IN BETWEEN THE LINES BELOW At 02:21 PM 1/24/97 +0000, you wrote: > Greg Watson wrote: > >> Epitaxy wrote: > > No. The only energy taken from the coil is that necessary to cause > domain alignment and in modern ferrite material that energy is > VERY low. > >Ok, lets look into this a bit deeper: > >I measure the total energy over time used by an electromagnet to reach >full static current through the coil. This is energy X1. > >Assume I place an electromagnet over a bit of iron. I energise the >electromagnet while the iron is fixed in place, and again measure the >total energy to reach full field strenght, and a static coil current. Practical note: The current in the coil should never be allowed to build up to the I=E/R level. Using the R of the coil is a bad way to limit the current because of the resistive heating losses, charging time should be used instead. >This is energy X2, which is greater than X1, as we have done work to >align the domains of the iron. Indeed, this may be a small differance, >but this in itself is no matter. Yes, but please note that these two examples are different because the coil is discharged between these two instances and there is no continuity (these are two separate experiments X1 & X2) >Now then, I release the bit of iron, and it is attracted to the >electromagnet. > >Several things happen here: > >As the iron is attracted, it takes more flux, and thereby alters the >inductance of the electromagnet. As the inductance changes (increases) >additional current flows into the electromagnet! > >This additional current is energy X3. When you write "...flows into the electromagnet !", I assume you mean: "...additional current from the power supply flows into the electromagnet !". If the above interpretation is correct than I am sorry to inform you that you are wrong. The power supply current draw will DECREASE in response to the approaching iron. I have verified this experimentally. X3 is NOT additional, it represents negative energy from the power supply's point of view. This supply current decrease apparently happens because the coil induces a current in its windings in the opposite direction (-+ +-) to the current supplied by the power supply. When these two currents are superposed, the result is a decrease in the overall coil current. It follows that the response of the coil is to compensate by decreasing total coil current, in order to keep the magnetic flux "seen" by the coil constant. This means that IF the coil was NOT compensating for this change the flux through the coil would INCREASE ! The EMF induced in the coil flows in such direction as to oppose the increase in flux caused by the approaching iron. This means: in the opposite direction. > >As energy X3 exists, and can be measured, how can we claim the >following: > >> >> Is this >> > >not where the energy for the acceleration of the core is coming from? >> >> No. The energy for the acceleration of the rod is supplied by the >> rod's aligned domains. > >This answer seems to state that the acceleration is due to energy X2, >but energy X2 is less than (X2 + X3), or the total energy to attract >that bit of iron. Since X3 represents negative energy then X2 > X2 + X3. You are making an error by equaling the coil current to coil energy. You are neglecting the charge/discharge time difference. This Charge/Discharge time interval changes because the inductance changes. The closer the iron the higher the inductance. Let us call the coil currents in experiments X2 & X3, I2 & I3, respectively. The current I3 is smaller than I2 (verified experimentally by observing the supply current decrease as a ferrite core approaches). BUT ! Just because I3 is smaller than I2 does NOT mean that the smaller current (I3) flowing through the coil represents smaller energy. This happens because of the time factor. For example: (assuming ideal components) 1) We can charge an air core coil to I2 in 1 second (t2) 2) I2 now flows through the coil 3) NOW we let the ferrite be attracted to the coil 4) I3 now flows through the coil 5) I3 is 10 times smaller than I2 6) Coil's inductance has risen 100 times 7) Ferrite's domains become aligned 8) Ferrite gains momentum as it is attracted (kinetic energy increase) 9) We can recover ALL of the energy expended in #1 by discharging the current I3 for 10 seconds (t3). 10) Ferrite's domains become unaligned Note: current I2 flowing for 1 second is the same amount of energy as current I3 for 10 seconds (I2 = I3 * 10, t3 = t2 * 10). Thus I2 * t2 = I3 * t3 and electrical energy is conserved. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 15:11:26 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA28432; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:04:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:04:21 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:08:59 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Resent-Message-ID: <"7jIYU2.0.7y6.X7Jwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1697 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Greg Watson wrote: > >> Epitaxy wrote: >> > >If the core is attracted, it takes energy from the coil, right? >> >> No. The only energy taken from the coil is that necessary to cause >> domain alignment and in modern ferrite material that energy is >> VERY low. snip--- > >> Consider this. >> >> A ferrite rod and permanent magnet are attracted to each other >> by the magnetic fields both produce. The force is being generated >> by the aligned domains in each material. No outside energy source >> is involved here. >> >> If we release the rod, it will accelerate toward to magnet and its >> kinetic energy will increase. Again, no outside energy source >> is involved here, but the rod's kinetic energy is still increasing. >> >> Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. > snip--- > >A theory that explains how Newman's machine "works" is premature given >the unaddressed questions as to IF Newman's machine works as is >claimed. We seem to be quite close to 'pie in the sky' here. > >So, where do we go next? Well, Bob, here's two options in which to go: you can either build your own model utilizing Joe's technology or make arrangements to visit Joe's laboratory and see an operational model for yourself. Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 18:13:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA00329; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:00:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:00:36 -0800 Resent-Message-Id: <199701250100.RAA00295@mx1.eskimo.com> From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:09:51 -0500 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: References: <32E3BFCA.1603@ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <32E3BFCA.1603@ix.netcom.com> Resent-From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Resent-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Lines: 48 X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >> > > > > > > <"free". Any comments? >Not exactly free. A 40 watt lamp requires 40 watts of power at 60 Hz. >At 6MHz, and a much higher voltage, the lamp only requires 6 watts of >input power. >Thanks for the congratulations. It is a good invention, and it could >save billions of watts of power if implemented throughout the planet. >Unfortunately, I was never able to productize this invention to make it >available to the public (no money). Alas, I hate to rain on your parade, but this idea is not new. For example "Fluorescent Lamp Operating Characteristics at High Frequency", by Edward Hammer, Journal of Illumination Engineering Society of North America, Oct. 1984 as just one of the many interesting references listed in Unitrode data sheet for the UCC3305 "High Intensity Discharge Lighting" IC's. Solid state "ballasts" are rapidly over take the simpler transformer/thermal switch so that billions of $ can be saved in energy costs. Sylavania has several application notes and data sheets listed also: Philips Lighting Company / A Division of North Americal [SIC] Philips Corp. 200 Franklin Square Drive, P.O. Box 6800, Somerset, NJ 08875-6800. See if you can dig a copy of "Unitrode Power Supply Design Seminar-1996" for more info. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: //www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. : From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 18:13:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA14587 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:13:16 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:13:16 -0800 X-Envelope-From: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 17:01:41 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA00329; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:00:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:00:36 -0800 Resent-Message-Id: <199701250100.RAA00295@mx1.eskimo.com> From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Congrulations to Phil Gantt! Old-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:09:51 -0500 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: References: <32E3BFCA.1603@ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <32E3BFCA.1603@ix.netcom.com> Resent-From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) Resent-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Lines: 48 X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1698 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest Status: O X-Status: >> > > > > > > <"free". Any comments? >Not exactly free. A 40 watt lamp requires 40 watts of power at 60 Hz. >At 6MHz, and a much higher voltage, the lamp only requires 6 watts of >input power. >Thanks for the congratulations. It is a good invention, and it could >save billions of watts of power if implemented throughout the planet. >Unfortunately, I was never able to productize this invention to make it >available to the public (no money). Alas, I hate to rain on your parade, but this idea is not new. For example "Fluorescent Lamp Operating Characteristics at High Frequency", by Edward Hammer, Journal of Illumination Engineering Society of North America, Oct. 1984 as just one of the many interesting references listed in Unitrode data sheet for the UCC3305 "High Intensity Discharge Lighting" IC's. Solid state "ballasts" are rapidly over take the simpler transformer/thermal switch so that billions of $ can be saved in energy costs. Sylavania has several application notes and data sheets listed also: Philips Lighting Company / A Division of North Americal [SIC] Philips Corp. 200 Franklin Square Drive, P.O. Box 6800, Somerset, NJ 08875-6800. See if you can dig a copy of "Unitrode Power Supply Design Seminar-1996" for more info. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: //www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. : From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 19:06:54 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA22357; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:40:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:40:29 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:43:49 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32ec4723.14433335@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <32E8C5CD.4CBA@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <32E8C5CD.4CBA@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qVEER3.0.1T5.JANwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1700 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:23:09 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote: [snip] >Fed with DC, none of the above! > >To produce a scalar, you need to have opposed, changing flux that >undergoes true superposition such that the flux is not expressed, and >liberates the free potnentials only. > >A static current will only yeild highly distorted flux, but no >superposition. [snip] Bob, What is the difference between DC and AC with 1 cycle / million years? The latter is still AC by definition, so should still qualify as "changing flux". Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 19:41:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA22343; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:40:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:40:21 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 02:43:47 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32eb3f80.12477772@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701231630.IAA08864@claim.goldrush.com> In-Reply-To: <199701231630.IAA08864@claim.goldrush.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-VWkK2.0.zS5.JANwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1699 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:30:06 -0800 (PST), wesly crosiar wrote: >Robin: Send me your snail mail. I will send you the complete patent. Will >you please make it available to the whole group. Mr. R. van Spaandonk 1/39 Flinders St. Mentone Vic. 3194 Australia Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 19:43:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA02088 for bilb@eskimo.com; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:43:52 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:43:52 -0800 X-Envelope-From: josephnewman@earthlink.net Fri Jan 24 19:43:49 1997 Received: from norway.it.earthlink.net (norway-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.49]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA02075 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:43:46 -0800 Received: from [153.34.204.75] (Cust75.Max9.New-Orleans.LA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.204.75]) by norway.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29725 for ; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:44:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1357954791==_============" Old-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:48:25 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Close-up of Periphery Spins/Mags. in Attraction X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: --============_-1357954791==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've attached a gif file depicting a close-up of the gyron periphery interactions for bar magnets in *attraction* -- scanned at greyscale 256. I hope it reads considerably clearer than the line art scans. Sincerely, Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net --============_-1357954791==_============ Content-Type: image/gif; name="Close_up_mag_in_attrac.gif" ; x-mac-type="47494666" ; x-mac-creator="53744D6C" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Close_up_mag_in_attrac.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdh4AEzAfcAAP//////zP//mf//Zv//M///AP/M///MzP/Mmf/MZv/MM//MAP+Z //+ZzP+Zmf+ZZv+ZM/+ZAP9m//9mzP9mmf9mZv9mM/9mAP8z//8zzP8zmf8zZv8zM/8z AP8A//8AzP8Amf8AZv8AM/8AAMz//8z/zMz/mcz/Zsz/M8z/AMzM/8zMzMzMmczMZszM M8zMAMyZ/8yZzMyZmcyZZsyZM8yZAMxm/8xmzMxmmcxmZsxmM8xmAMwz/8wzzMwzmcwz ZswzM8wzAMwA/8wAzMwAmcwAZswAM8wAAJn//5n/zJn/mZn/Zpn/M5n/AJnM/5nMzJnM mZnMZpnMM5nMAJmZ/5mZzJmZmZmZZpmZM5mZAJlm/5lmzJlmmZlmZplmM5lmAJkz/5kz zJkzmZkzZpkzM5kzAJkA/5kAzJkAmZkAZpkAM5kAAGb//2b/zGb/mWb/Zmb/M2b/AGbM /2bMzGbMmWbMZmbMM2bMAGaZ/2aZzGaZmWaZZmaZM2aZAGZm/2ZmzGZmmWZmZmZmM2Zm AGYz/2YzzGYzmWYzZmYzM2YzAGYA/2YAzGYAmWYAZmYAM2YAADP//zP/zDP/mTP/ZjP/ MzP/ADPM/zPMzDPMmTPMZjPMMzPMADOZ/zOZzDOZmTOZZjOZMzOZADNm/zNmzDNmmTNm 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6AJoIvqQJOHmIMJwu/6+LoEtF9kzX0Goo2gISxLn0N6XK+bLfQRbuvOyLxVrAsVsx3Q/ 7kUVFeJuR+3Sxo5eW4xp2mo79ZCmQG216NOZPTkX6AYORyShMOmx6GJGqy5rErVcezIM itYfo+PxKcSWXC1smDFs87nt2cSzYTY0aIJQ+/lyDzbfuKDWrW0+F2nUf/tHNhLQv27D QQSgVy2+qgFE6InvrZ+mZ2bFDlaAV9GWPpow9JR0Spi2WeWxba5O3ywuzem7Za6oUBnD Cdaa63le2520Cd0C8wazUwCqawIGbv9UxKooteYoRfJmDABSdPFtdFTVV6sy86/ebjQW XS0HWDENC81RGOY8IKuu8QsMdJ84wVZbvHChHSY7GMaxG97zExifE2RxmI6oky6j7LUs 9BdnOf+5alyd9FQP3dCw5Mj2jYAAOw== --============_-1357954791==_============-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 24 19:52:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA30999; Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:21:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 19:21:43 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 21:26:19 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970124212135.1bd76bf2@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Electret acoustical converter Resent-Message-ID: <"aTzA73.0.Ga7.4nNwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1701 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Gentelmen: It is my understanding that electrets are not free energy devices but mearly convert acoustical energy to electrical energy. If you atach one to a scope you will notice the voltage varies with noises in the room. I suggest that lambertson is doing somthing diferant. If I am dead wrong in the above paragraph. might I suggest cemichaly etching the metels you use. Thsi will greatly increase the serface arai of the metal on a microscopic level. Charles Ford clf@startext.net From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 01:41:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA26052; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:17:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:17:51 -0800 From: JNaudin509@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 04:20:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970125042029_947592244@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Motive Power generating device ( an O/U Device ?) Resent-Message-ID: <"F-HId.0.wM6.z-Swo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1702 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All Does anyone have study or build the Kawai generator. Its a very interesting device which claim in the patent that it give OVERUNITY, see below : << The Kawai patent "Motive Power generating device" US Patent 5,436,518. We could read in it : Pure steel was used as a magnetic material. The magnetic material was 30 mm in thickness and formed to have magnetic teeth of 218 mm diameter and notches of 158 mm diameter. A ferritic magnet was used as a permanent magnet. The magnetic force of the magnet was 1,000 gauss. Electric power of 19,55 watts was applied to the electromagnets at 17 volts and 1.15 amperes. Under the above conditions, a rotational number of 100 rpm, a torque of 60.52 Kg-cm and an output of 62.16 watt was obtained." (Kawai patent 5,436,518 8.45). -------------------------------- ABSTRACT: A motive power generating device comprises a permanent magnet disposed around a rotational output shaft for rotation therewith, the output shaft being mounted on a support member for rotation, a magnetic body disposed in concentric relationship with the permanent magnet for rotation with the rotational output shaft, the magnetic body being subjected to magnetic flux generated by the permanent magnet, a plurality of electromagnets fixedly mounted to the support member in such a manner that they are spaced at predetermined distances around the periphery of the magnetic body, each magnetic circuit of the electromagnets being adapted to be independent of one another, and excitation change-over means for the electromagnets, the excitation change-over means being adapted to sequentially magnetize one of the electromagnets which is positioned forwardly with regard to a rotational direction of the rotational output shaft, so as to impart to the particular electromagnet a magnetic polarity opposite to that of the magnetic pole of the permanent magnet, whereby magnetic flux passing through the magnetic body converges in one direction so as to apply a rotational torque to the rotational output shaft. No force opposing movement of a rotor or movable element is generated." >> Tom Bearden give more details of its principle at : http://www.virtualtimes.com/writers/bearden/mageng/mageng.htm May the OVERUNITY BE for year 1997...... I look forward to your feed-back and comments.... Truly, Jean-Louis Naudin (France) Email : JNaudin509@aol.com From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 02:15:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA31751; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:52:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:52:36 -0800 Message-ID: <32E9D871.62F4@ipgeek.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:54:57 -0800 From: Albert Yang Reply-To: lithium@ipgeek.com Organization: Oriental Guild Resources X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Patents, where to find them References: <199701240605.AAA14365@firefly.prairienet.org> <32E9D67D.CD3@plix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"afw3W.0.zl7.YVTwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1704 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: http://www.uspto.gov/ That's the us patent and trademark office. It's dirt cheap to order copies of patents from them as well as search and find the patents you need. It cost me about $6 to get two patents. Albert From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 02:15:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA28377; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:39:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:39:35 -0800 Message-ID: <32E9D67D.CD3@plix.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:46:37 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: clf@startext.net CC: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. References: <199701240605.AAA14365@firefly.prairienet.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DZ8qZ2.0.Jx6.LJTwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1703 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > > > > > >Question: > > > >How does one get documentation from a patent number? I would like to see > >some of these Patents. > > > >Charles Ford > >clf@startext.net > > > > > > > w9sz@prairienet.org > > -- Try this: http://is.rice.edu/~spare/patentlink.html --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 04:25:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA11795; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 03:48:32 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 03:48:32 -0800 Message-ID: <32EAF59A.7F90@triode.net.au> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:11:38 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Free Energy List Subject: Re: News flash. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rroez1.0.Du2.ECVwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1706 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Charles Ford wrote: > > At 11:02 PM 1/21/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Bob Shannon wrote: > >> > >> Maxwell wrote: > >> > >> >You also note that work > >> > has been done by the superconductor on the magnet to lift it against the > >> > pull of gravity. > >> > > >> > Question: where did the energy come from to lift the magnet? > >> > > >> > Maxwell. > >> > >> An interesting question indeed! > >> > >> While levitated, no work is being done as strange as this may seem. > > > Acustic Vibration or ambient noise gives the magnet the energy it needs. > It's called The Miesner Effect, and has ben all over the news about 1990 and > 1991. So basically you are saying that the magnet rises due to tiny movements in the magnets field caused by the surrounding ambient noise and vibration. So the magnet would rise faster if played loud rock music than if it was demonstrated in a quiet lab environment where it would rise ever so slowly. Ok, lets say the magnet weighs in at around 4 grams, and lets say that the magnet is lifted by 4 centimetres. That means that the energy required to lift the magnet from the surface of the superconductor will have to be in the order of E=mgh = .04 x 9.8 x .04 = 15.7 milliJoule. Apart from violating the second law of thermodynamics - disorder proceeding to a state of order - and assuming somehow that the magnetic field will cohere the surounding random energy into useful work, we would have to obtain 15.7 mJ of random energy from nature in order to lift the magnet. I dont think this is possible. Do you? Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 05:04:23 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA11763; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 03:48:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 03:48:06 -0800 Message-ID: <32EA9A30.69E6@triode.net.au> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:41:37 -0800 From: Maxwell X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils References: <32E297A4.5A69@ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"f7EQ3.0.jt2.qBVwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1705 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > In resonance mode input is miminum. Bifilar create almost zero induction > for secondary coil of transformer and input power is the same if secondary > coil is connected or disconnected. But maximum value power output from it > can be equal to two value of power that is collected in core of transformer, > the same power is collected in capacitor in other phase of oscillation. Alexander, This is quite a claim. Do you have any more info on this? I fooled around with a UDT for a while which claimed that opposing fluxes cancelled in the input coil thus enabling O/U. It didnt work for me. In the original Tesla patent (512,340) "Coil for Electro-magnets", Telsa claimed that the double coil will store many times the energy of a conventional coil (paper by Oliver Nicholson "Nikola Tesla's Later Energy Generator Designs"). Oliver suspected that this patent forms the basis of Tesla's later solid-state o/u 'fueless' generator. On a video talk given by Richard Mckie on the PODMOD technology (shuffling energy between two tanks), I could see that the windings on the torroidal coil tank he was holding up were twisted, suggesting that he is using bifilar windings. Any comments? Maxwell. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 07:09:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA26775; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:31:43 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:31:43 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:34:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199701251434.GAA19860@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"WXihK1.0.HY6.DbXwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1707 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob wrote: snip >A bifilar transformer is simply taking the the primary wire and the >secondary wire and, holding them together, winding them around the >core. In comparison, a more traditional transformer may have the >primary wound around the core, and when that is finished, the >secondary is wound over the primary winding; or, wound next to the >primary, but around the same core. There are many possible >configurations, but only bifilar has the primary and secondary wire >side-by-side wound together. snip This winding would only produce a 1:1 isolation transformer. It's not a true bifillar transformer in the sense of having a "two wire" type secondary. RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 07:35:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA28641; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:46:38 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:46:38 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:49:11 -0800 Message-Id: <199701251449.GAA09696@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"eyvm61.0.M_6.DpXwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1708 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin wrote: snip >>To produce a scalar, you need to have opposed, changing flux that >>undergoes true superposition such that the flux is not expressed, and >>liberates the free potnentials only. >> >>A static current will only yeild highly distorted flux, but no >>superposition. >[snip] >Bob, > >What is the difference between DC and AC with 1 cycle / million years? >The latter is still AC by definition, so should still qualify as >"changing flux". There is a great deal of difference. A stiff, fast rise time, impulse is required. The higher dV/dT, the better. All these translators have "leaks" and Nature's preference is to emit EM. Once the translator is constructed as tightly as possible, a fast dV/dT driver is a must to translate as much energy as possible in scalar potential. RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 07:39:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA31827; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:03:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:03:45 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:06:27 -0500 Message-ID: <970125100626_1111044981@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. Resent-Message-ID: <"5jJgx1.0.Dn7.F3Ywo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1709 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Apart from violating the second law of thermodynamics - disorder proceeding to a state of order>>> Um...what do you think an air conditioner does? You can make order out of disorder if the overall global disorder increases. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 08:29:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA02563; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:29:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:29:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:32:17 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199701251532.JAA10297@firefly.prairienet.org> From: w9sz@prairienet.org (Zack Widup) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. Reply-To: w9sz@prairienet.org Resent-Message-ID: <"BATX03.0.zd.fRYwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1710 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > > >Apart from violating the second law of thermodynamics - disorder >proceeding to a state of order - and assuming somehow that the magnetic >field will cohere the surounding random energy into useful work, we >would have to obtain 15.7 mJ of random energy from nature in order to >lift the magnet. > >I dont think this is possible. Do you? > >Maxwell. > > Those familiar with the works of Ilya Prigogine know that the Second Law of Thermodynamics does not always hold true (locally, anyway.) Perhaps what is happening is following Prigigie's conditions? Zack -- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 08:49:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA05647; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:49:08 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:49:08 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 07:50:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199701251550.HAA12529@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: News flash. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"KfbvP1.0.bN1.UjYwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1711 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: You wrote: > >>>>Apart from violating the second law of thermodynamics - disorder >proceeding to a state of order>>> > >Um...what do you think an air conditioner does? You can make order out >of disorder if the overall global disorder increases. >-Adam Grossman > > Sure, that's what life is all about. Think about it. RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 08:52:51 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA19658 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:52:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:52:48 -0800 X-Envelope-From: theywood@kgn.ibm.com Sat Jan 25 08:52:45 1997 Received: from minnie.nic.kingston.ibm.com (minnie.nic.kingston.ibm.com [204.149.7.252]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA19640 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:52:44 -0800 Received: from clnt12kgn.pok.ibm.com by minnie.nic.kingston.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA59410; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:55:56 -0500 Received: by clnt12kgn.pok.ibm.com (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/9309151209) id AA84074; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:55:59 -0500 Old-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:55:59 -0500 (EST) From: Todd Heywood To: @minnie.nic.kingston.ibm.com:freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Patents, where to find them In-Reply-To: <32E9D871.62F4@ipgeek.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: > http://www.uspto.gov/ > > That's the us patent and trademark office. It's dirt cheap to order > copies of patents from them as well as search and find the patents you > need. It cost me about $6 to get two patents. > > Albert > You can get them free (online) at http://www.ibm.com/patents/ Todd From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 09:50:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA31193 for bilb@eskimo.com; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:50:18 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:50:18 -0800 X-Envelope-From: josephnewman@earthlink.net Sat Jan 25 09:50:12 1997 Received: from denmark.it.earthlink.net (denmark-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.22]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA31172 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:50:10 -0800 Received: from [153.34.203.175] (Cust47.Max8.New-Orleans.LA.MS.UU.NET [153.34.203.175]) by denmark.it.earthlink.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20313 for ; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:53:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1357904007==_============" Old-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:54:49 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Close-up of Periphery Spins/Mags. in Attraction X-Diagnostic: Submission size exceeds 40000 bytes X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: --============_-1357904007==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've attached a gif file depicting a close-up of the gyron periphery interactions for bar magnets in *attraction* -- scanned at greyscale 256. I hope it reads considerably clearer than the line art scans. Sincerely, Evan Soule' josephnewman@earthlink.net --============_-1357904007==_============ Content-Type: image/gif; name="Close_up_mag_in_attrac.gif" ; x-mac-type="47494666" ; x-mac-creator="53744D6C" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Close_up_mag_in_attrac.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdh4AEzAfcAAP//////zP//mf//Zv//M///AP/M///MzP/Mmf/MZv/MM//MAP+Z //+ZzP+Zmf+ZZv+ZM/+ZAP9m//9mzP9mmf9mZv9mM/9mAP8z//8zzP8zmf8zZv8zM/8z AP8A//8AzP8Amf8AZv8AM/8AAMz//8z/zMz/mcz/Zsz/M8z/AMzM/8zMzMzMmczMZszM M8zMAMyZ/8yZzMyZmcyZZsyZM8yZAMxm/8xmzMxmmcxmZsxmM8xmAMwz/8wzzMwzmcwz ZswzM8wzAMwA/8wAzMwAmcwAZswAM8wAAJn//5n/zJn/mZn/Zpn/M5n/AJnM/5nMzJnM mZnMZpnMM5nMAJmZ/5mZzJmZmZmZZpmZM5mZAJlm/5lmzJlmmZlmZplmM5lmAJkz/5kz zJkzmZkzZpkzM5kzAJkA/5kAzJkAmZkAZpkAM5kAAGb//2b/zGb/mWb/Zmb/M2b/AGbM /2bMzGbMmWbMZmbMM2bMAGaZ/2aZzGaZmWaZZmaZM2aZAGZm/2ZmzGZmmWZmZmZmM2Zm AGYz/2YzzGYzmWYzZmYzM2YzAGYA/2YAzGYAmWYAZmYAM2YAADP//zP/zDP/mTP/ZjP/ MzP/ADPM/zPMzDPMmTPMZjPMMzPMADOZ/zOZzDOZmTOZZjOZMzOZADNm/zNmzDNmmTNm 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6AJoIvqQJOHmIMJwu/6+LoEtF9kzX0Goo2gISxLn0N6XK+bLfQRbuvOyLxVrAsVsx3Q/ 7kUVFeJuR+3Sxo5eW4xp2mo79ZCmQG216NOZPTkX6AYORyShMOmx6GJGqy5rErVcezIM itYfo+PxKcSWXC1smDFs87nt2cSzYTY0aIJQ+/lyDzbfuKDWrW0+F2nUf/tHNhLQv27D QQSgVy2+qgFE6InvrZ+mZ2bFDlaAV9GWPpow9JR0Spi2WeWxba5O3ywuzem7Za6oUBnD Cdaa63le2520Cd0C8wazUwCqawIGbv9UxKooteYoRfJmDABSdPFtdFTVV6sy86/ebjQW XS0HWDENC81RGOY8IKuu8QsMdJ84wVZbvHChHSY7GMaxG97zExifE2RxmI6oky6j7LUs 9BdnOf+5alyd9FQP3dCw5Mj2jYAAOw== --============_-1357904007==_============-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 11:04:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA10927; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:28:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:28:14 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 13:32:58 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: News flash. Resent-Message-ID: <"f2QXV2.0.Vg2.y2bwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1712 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>>Apart from violating the second law of thermodynamics - disorder >proceeding to a state of order>>> > >Um...what do you think an air conditioner does? You can make order out of >disorder if the overall global disorder increases. >-Adam Grossman And, of course, it's been said that a component of the definition of LIFE itself is that it represents a *localized* reversal of entropy. -- Evan Soule' From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 13:10:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA03891; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:35:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:35:11 -0800 Message-ID: <32EA6F2C.14FC@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:38:08 -1000 From: Rick Monteverde X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. References: <32EAF59A.7F90@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Jwfyy3.0.iy.yvcwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1713 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Maxwell wrote: > So basically you are saying that the magnet rises due to > tiny movements in the magnets field caused by the > surrounding ambient noise and vibration. So the magnet > would rise faster if played loud rock music than if it was > demonstrated in a quiet lab environment where it would > rise ever so slowly. I think the sound being referred to here might be phonons within the structure of the superconductor, providing energy to lift the magnet by helping to organize electrons into supercurrents as the material goes through transition when chilled below its criticl temperature. This is the "noise" of heat itself - vibrations and gyrations within matter at any temperature - even "absolute" zero, where the only thing that's heard then is the ZPF. At or very near zero-K though, the phonons are quantized: individual notes instead of white noise. - Rick Monteverde Honolulu, HI From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 15:31:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA27559; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:41:11 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:41:11 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:45:44 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: gif note Resent-Message-ID: <"I-KXJ2.0.Nk6.2mewo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1714 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Note -- A number of individuals have been privately emailing me to inquire about receiving the rest of the gifs depicting the Magnetic Fields in Attraction/Repulsion. I've been endeavoring to post several gifs since yesterday morning to the list but they seem to simply 'disappear' -- and no "bounce-back" messages of any kind... If you would like me to send you 4 gifs featuring the graphic images of Magnetic Fields in Attraction/Repulsion, plus a 5th close-up view, please email me privately at: josephnewman@earthlink.net Thanks! Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 16:02:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA04824; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:25:31 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:25:31 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:28:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970125182813_1759755896@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. Resent-Message-ID: <"iKInq.0.IB1.gPfwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1715 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>And, of course, it's been said that a component of the definition of LIFE itself is that it represents a *localized* reversal of entropy. -- Evan Soule'>>> Yes. Obviously. :) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 16:38:43 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA10824; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:01:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:01:04 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970125160517.009aee94@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:05:19 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: gif note Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"8j3bu.0.1f2._wfwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1716 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I'd like to see the GIFs. P.S. The freenrg-l has a flaw that it doesn't sent bounce back messages. Also there is 40KB limit. I noticed your previous GIFs were almost unreadable because of the low resolution and poor contast. Did you consider using the .DXF vector drawing format. It is supported by MsWord and it is the most popular CAD file format. There are even Netscape and IE plugins for viewing it (for free). If you truly care about communicating your ideas clearly please consider this alternative way to submit your graphics. I'll even upload AutoCAD to you for free if you don't have it. At 05:45 PM 1/25/97 -0600, you wrote: >Note -- > >A number of individuals have been privately emailing me to inquire about >receiving the rest of the gifs depicting the Magnetic Fields in >Attraction/Repulsion. > >I've been endeavoring to post several gifs since yesterday morning to the >list but they seem to simply 'disappear' -- and no "bounce-back" messages >of any kind... > >If you would like me to send you 4 gifs featuring the graphic images of >Magnetic Fields in Attraction/Repulsion, plus a 5th close-up view, please >email me privately at: > >josephnewman@earthlink.net > >Thanks! > >Evan Soule' >Director of Information >NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS >josephnewman@earthlink.net >(504) 524-3063 >P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 >http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html >http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 16:55:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA14980; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:31:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:31:33 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:36:18 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: gif note update Resent-Message-ID: <"o2UDC.0.vf3.ZNgwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1718 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: To individuals requesting gifs, I realize that because of the 40K limitation on the List, I had to scan the rather detailed/large graphic images at a low resolution. Consequently, my system is telling me that the resulting 5 gifs are 33K each. If you wish the five gif images sent privately and can accommodate a gif image in the 100-150K range [I'm estimating, since I haven't scanned a full-size image at the higher resolutions], I will re-scan the images at a higher resolution in greyscale 256 to improve clarity. Unless you indicate otherwise, I'll send the lower-resolution 33K gif images. [The one close-up gif image IS scanned in grey-scale, but at a relatively low resolution....it should be somewhat clearer than the other images.] Sincerely, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 17:04:27 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA14412; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:27:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:27:16 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:32:01 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970125182711.1bd7c2e6@startext.net> X-Sender: clf@startext.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Charles Ford Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifillar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"S8cTQ2.0.6X3.YJgwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1717 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 08:40 PM 1/23/97 -0800, you wrote: >At 08:30 PM 1/23/97 -0600, you wrote: > >>Question: >> >>How does one get documentation from a patent number? I would like to see >>some of these Patents. >> >>Charles Ford >>clf@startext.net Answer???????????????: > >Could be US Patent 512,340 > What?????? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 17:14:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA19836; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:04:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:04:17 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:07:24 -0800 X-Intended-For: Message-Id: <199701260107.RAA13859@big.aa.net> X-Sender: knuke@pop.aa.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: knuke@aa.net (Michael T Huffman) Subject: Re: gif note Resent-Message-ID: <"PCdqN1.0.sr4.Fsgwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1719 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I'll even upload AutoCAD to you for free if you don't have it. > Epitaxy, Are you serious?? I'd love to have a copy of AutoCad. I wouldn't post an offer to upload it over a public list, however, it is a top of the line, expensive, copyrighted piece of work. In fact, I would publicly rescind your offer, just for the record. If you would still be willing to do an upload, we could arrange it by private e-mail. Thanks -Knuke From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 17:54:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA23537; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:29:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:29:19 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 01:32:47 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32ef9a89.11392002@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701251449.GAA09696@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <199701251449.GAA09696@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bYUf21.0.Zl5.hDhwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1720 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:49:11 -0800, Richard Wayne Wall wrote: [snip] >>What is the difference between DC and AC with 1 cycle / million years? >>The latter is still AC by definition, so should still qualify as >>"changing flux". > >There is a great deal of difference. A stiff, fast rise time, impulse No actually there is almost no difference. Which is why I put the question as I did. The information you supply doesn't support your statement that there is a great deal of difference. It does however add to Bob's statement. IOW, it is not just that the magnetic components of two em waves can cancel, but that this cancellation gets stronger at higher frequencies. Perhaps this is related to the physical dimensions of the actual devices. I.e. the closer the match between actual size of the object and wavelength of the em wave, the better it works. In this case, one might expect cm or even mm waves to work best. >is required. The higher dV/dT, the better. All these translators have >"leaks" and Nature's preference is to emit EM. Once the translator is >constructed as tightly as possible, a fast dV/dT driver is a must to >translate as much energy as possible in scalar potential. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 18:49:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA05416; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:37:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:37:36 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970125184153.009afa88@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 18:41:54 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: gif note Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"u1Mf82.0.YK1.lDiwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1721 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I was referring to an AutoCAD .DXF file Reader. .DXF file format belongs to AutoCAD. At 05:07 PM 1/25/97 -0800, you wrote: > >>I'll even upload AutoCAD to you for free if you don't have it. >> >Epitaxy, > > Are you serious?? I'd love to have a copy of AutoCad. I wouldn't post an >offer to upload it over a public list, however, it is a top of the line, >expensive, copyrighted piece of work. In fact, I would publicly rescind >your offer, just for the record. If you would still be willing to do an >upload, we could arrange it by private e-mail. Thanks -Knuke > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 19:52:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA17466; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:39:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:39:41 -0800 Message-ID: <32EA8C5F.6818@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:42:39 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. References: <32E8C5CD.4CBA@tiac.net> <32ec4723.14433335@mail.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"I_wyC1.0.mG4.x7jwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1722 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:23:09 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote: > [snip] > >Fed with DC, none of the above! > > > >To produce a scalar, you need to have opposed, changing flux that > >undergoes true superposition such that the flux is not expressed, and > >liberates the free potnentials only. > > > >A static current will only yeild highly distorted flux, but no > >superposition. > [snip] > Bob, > > What is the difference between DC and AC with 1 cycle / million years? > The latter is still AC by definition, so should still qualify as "changing > flux". The difference is due to the electrical properties of free space, which effect the radiation resistance of electromagnetic dipoles, etc. As a grand over simplification, for an EM radiator, waves are produced by the change in potential unable to return to the dipole due to the effects of space itself, and the rate of field propogation. In practice, as frequancy goes down, it becomes harder and harder to make an efficient radiator. The physical size of the elements grows, as does capactive and other effects. For efficient scalar translation, we need the potnetial to change faster than the opposed fields are able to distort and seek paths that would allow EM field expression. To me, the inner depths of antenna theory, EM or otherwise, are more art than science. You can do all the calculations in the world, but you still have to trim and tweak the thing once it's no longer made of ideal components. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 20:03:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA19216; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:51:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:51:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32EA8F0E.467E@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:54:06 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils References: <32E297A4.5A69@ix.netcom.com> <32EA9A30.69E6@triode.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MzQP03.0.Ai4.eIjwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1723 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Maxwell wrote: > I fooled around with a UDT for a while which claimed that opposing > fluxes cancelled in the input coil thus enabling O/U. It didnt work for > me. Exactly right! Flux will not superpose in this manner. If we need to superpose flux, we cannot use macroscopic poles, but must sum the flux curled around each winding in the coil, not the whole (macro) pole. Several inventors devices neglect this fact, and place coils between opposed coil or magnet poles to produce 'scalar' effects. This is completely different than using opposed and equal currents in a bifilar coil. > On a video talk given by Richard Mckie on the PODMOD technology > (shuffling energy between two tanks), I could see that the windings on > the torroidal coil tank he was holding up were twisted, suggesting that > he is using bifilar windings. > > Any comments? My understanding is that the PODMOD is much like a Brandt-Tesla switch, but with resonant tanks rather than batteries. A recent post on freenrg-l stated something to the effect that the inventor was unable to deliver a working unit. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 20:26:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA19777; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:55:17 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:55:17 -0800 Message-ID: <32EA9009.E26@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:58:17 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. References: <970125100626_1111044981@emout02.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Ex7t62.0.sq4.ZMjwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1724 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>Apart from violating the second law of thermodynamics - disorder > proceeding to a state of order>>> > > Um...what do you think an air conditioner does? You can make order out of > disorder if the overall global disorder increases. > -Adam Grossman Um, an air conditioner makes net disorder, as heat is used to pump heat from the cooled area. Put the air conditioner into a calorimeter, and whatch the temp. go up! Now Biology, that's different. That shoots thermodynmics right in the foot, leaving it to limp away badly hurt. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sat Jan 25 20:50:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA26350; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:39:55 -0800 Resent-Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 20:39:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32EA9A79.5348@tiac.net> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:42:49 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. References: <199701251449.GAA09696@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> <32ef9a89.11392002@mail.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jqz6K1.0.eR6.Q0kwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1725 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > > On Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:49:11 -0800, Richard Wayne Wall wrote: > [snip] > >There is a great deal of difference. A stiff, fast rise time, impulse > > No actually there is almost no difference. Which is why I put the question > as I did. The information you supply doesn't support your statement that > there is a great deal of difference. It does however add to Bob's > statement. IOW, it is not just that the magnetic components of two em waves > can cancel, but that this cancellation gets stronger at higher frequencies. This is true to a point, but as frequancy goes way up, a different set of effect enter the picture than do at lower frequancies. Really high frequancy stuff gets downright spooky. Some of the Ham-atic's out there like Zack W. like to play with those really small waves, but again this quickly becomes a black art. > Perhaps this is related to the physical dimensions of the actual devices. > I.e. the closer the match between actual size of the object and wavelength > of the em wave, the better it works. In this case, one might expect cm or > even mm waves to work best. True to a point, different frequancies demand different engineering methods and techniques. These make superposition either harder or easiler to acheive. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 26 08:38:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA21622; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:09:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:09:44 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970126081403.009acefc@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:14:08 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, bshannon@tiac.net From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"_4PGZ2.0.mH5.67uwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1726 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:19 PM 1/25/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: > >> Practical note: The current in the coil should never be allowed to build >> up to the I=E/R level. The R of the coil is a bad way to limit the >> current, charging time should be used instead. > >Can you expand on why? In an ideal coil (zero R, zero C, etc) the current increases with time WITHOUT limit. That means if we had infinite time the current would build up to infinite magnitude. In a realistic coil the DC resistance provides a limit to the maximum current according to the Ohm's law I=E/R. So with a given supply voltage the current in a coil is capable only reaching a certain limit imposed by R. After this limit is reached the coil behaves as a simple resistor and dissipates the electrical energy flowing through it at a rate of RI^2. This is undesirable because electrical energy dissipated in this way (heat) is unrecoverable. However before the I=E/R limit is reached the electrical energy is converted into building up the magnetic flux around the coil and this energy is easily recoverable upon coil's discharge. Of course the R is dissipating energy in the form of heat during this time also, and the * RATIO * of resistive VS. magnetic dissipation increases with time. So the closer we approach the I=E/R limit the more energy is converted into heat and less into the magnetic field around the coil. The inductance plays a great role here because the larger the inductance the longer it takes for the coil to reach the I=E/R current limit (t=L/R). This is the reason why charging time instead of the coil's DC resistance should be used to limit the buildup of current in the coil's circuit. This is also a reason why an 100 Amp AC transformer is easily burned up with 1 Amp DC. >> When you write "...flows into the electromagnet !" I assume you mean >> "...additional current from the power supply flows into the electromagnet !". >> >> If the above interpretation is correct than I am sorry to inform you that >> you are wrong. The power supply current draw will DECREASE in response to >> the approaching iron. I have verified this experimentally. > >In this experiment, what form of power suply regulation was used, etc? >Can you provide details on this? Constant voltage regulation was used. The coil was connected to the power supply through a series current sensing resistor. An oscilloscope was hooked up to both ends of the resistor. The voltage across this current sensing resistor was proportional to the current flowing through the coil. A non-conductive ferrite core was allowed to be attracted by the coil. A current drop in the coil's circuit was observed. ------------------- | | | o -+ o _- Supply o coil <-- FFFFFF movable ferrite core. | o | | ----v^v^v^v^------- | Resistor | | | | | V V To scope I expect that if I used an isolated (no power supply) superconductive coil with current circulating through it, this current would decrease when the ferrite core approached the coil and the inductance of the coil would increase keeping the electrical energy stored by the coil constant. NOTE: the alignment of the ferrite's domains becomes part of the energy stored by the coil after the ferrite is attracted. That is why the coil's current decreases to compensate for this increase. (I decreases, L increases, t increases, energy stays constant). From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 26 11:41:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA16511; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:58:06 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 10:58:06 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:00:50 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-L@eskimo.com Subject: scalar device (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"kB-gm2.0.m14.vawwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1727 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:27:03 -0500 (EST) From: dclark@msmary.edu Subject: scalar device I was just writing this in response to Mr. Bedini's scalar device. I was curious as to what exactly a scalar field is, and what it does. from what I have researched on the 'net, all i can seem to find is that scalar waves come in different types and produce some type of interference. why does Mr. Bedini's device produce changes in the CD? i am just getting into this weird science thing that I found on your mainly on your page and I have many questions and a lack of understanding with regard to why your devices do what they do. This sort of thing has never been taught to me in school, or even mentioned for that matter. Thank you for your time, and i am sorry for the bad typing (lack of caps and typos). If you could respond in any fashion to my questions it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again. Sincerely, David Clark From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 26 12:08:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA26482; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:40:46 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:40:46 -0800 Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 11:43:50 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty Reply-To: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Scalar via mirrors In-Reply-To: <32EA9A79.5348@tiac.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sCk-q3.0.VT6.yCxwo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1728 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Bob Shannon wrote: > This is true to a point, but as frequancy goes way up, a different set > of effect enter the picture than do at lower frequancies. Really high > frequancy stuff gets downright spooky. Some of the Ham-atic's out there > like Zack W. like to play with those really small waves, but again this > quickly becomes a black art. This reminds me of something I've wondered about. An old posting mentions that one method of generating a scalar field is to place a shorting turn at the top of a Tesla coil. The induced current in the ring is 180deg away from the TC current, and the TC field and shorting-ring field cancel each other, leaving a scalar stress field. If this works, then it has interesting implications. Suppose we surround an entire tesla coil with shorting turns. The current in these rings will be 180deg out of phase with the TC current, and will cancel the conventional em field outside the rings, presumably leaving a scalar field. If this works, then why not surround the TC with a complete copper tube? Or, to create a simple scalar emitter, place any coil in a shielded box? The fields may not balance properly, since one coil is larger than the other (the metal box being the second coil). But will it function as a scalar emitter? More: metal shielding is able to shield and reflect EM because induced currents in the metal are 180deg out of phase with the incoming fields, and these currents produce their own fields which cancel the incoming fields. So, if you drive a small coil with AC and then put it inside a metal tube, the metal tube acts as a shield only because it creates perfect phase cancellation of fields outside itself. It doesn't STOP the EM fields from getting out, instead it cancels them. Even more: When a shield is placed around a coil, at the same time that the EM field outside the shield is cancelled, the field inside the shield is strengthened. It's as if the shield was a mirror, and was reflecting the AC field back inside. In fact, this is how mirrors work. When a beam of EM waves collides with a conductive sheet, it induces fields in the conductor, and these fields emit their own EM waves. The emitted waves produce a reflected beam as well as a phase-shifted transmitted beam. The original EM beam is perfectly canceled by the 180deg beam emitted in the same direction by the sheet. The result is apparently simple reflection, but in fact the metal sheet is cancelling one incoming beam and creating the reflected beam. Reflection SEEMS to be this: _ \ /| \ / \ / =================== metal mirror But it ACTUALLY is the sum of these two: \ \ \ =================== metal ORIGINAL BEAM \ mirror \ \ _\| _ /| / / =================== metal EMISSIONS FROM MIRROR \ mirror \ _\| The beams below the mirrors add up to zero. So, do mirrors create scalar fields? If I produce a microwave beam and then bounce it from a flat metal plate, won't there still be a beam on the far side of the mirror, a beam composed of two overlapped EM beams, and the scalar stress field they create? This implies that strong, focussed scalar fields can be created by creating strong, focussed EM waves, and then placing a mirror so as to remove the EM and create the scalar. This implies that shielded devices such as VHF transmitters and microwave ovens are possibly-dangerous sources of scalar EM. And HeNe lasers may unexpectedly emit an optical-freq scalar beam out their back end, since the back end of the laser tube has a nearly 100% mirror which cancels/reflects the beam within the tube. What frequencies of scalar emissions pose a biological hazard? Should we be cautious with the back ends of particular colors of laser tube? Suppose I operate two microwave ovens at once, will the surrounding scalar interference effects be hazardous? Of course, if the shorting-ring trick with the Tesla coil does not work, then my reasoning falls apart. If mirror reflection doesn't produce scalar fields, exactly why does it not? .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Sun Jan 26 22:14:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA02541; Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:45:14 -0800 Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:45:14 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 00:48:26 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970127004636.13af1eda@world.std.com> X-Sender: mica@world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: News flash. Resent-Message-ID: <"34jqm1.0.dd.f34xo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1729 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:28 PM 1/25/97 -0500, Adam Grossman wrote: >>>>And, of course, it's been said that a component of the definition of LIFE >itself is that it represents a *localized* reversal of entropy. -- Evan >Soule'>>> > >Yes. Obviously. :) >-Adam Grossman > > The "reversal" is over an incredibly small volume. DNA is information which is negative entropy. It lies at the core of our cells which definitively increase entropy on the larger scale. All living DNA begins with poly-A-A-A-A-A-A which BTW reproduces. Therefore our cells and bodies are the best "environment" to protect that code, but probably at the expense of considerable further entropy. However, the volumetric ratio of the negative entropy portion of our cells (DNA and RNA) is quite small compared to the rest and much larger volume which decisively complies with the laws of thermodynamics. Mitchell Swartz (mica@world.std.com) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 14:19:32 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA13911; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:33:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:33:04 -0800 Message-ID: <32ECD978.7D91@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:36:08 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. References: <2.2.16.19970127004636.13af1eda@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sssoA1.0.CP3.EyHxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1731 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell Swartz wrote: > > At 06:28 PM 1/25/97 -0500, Adam Grossman wrote: > > >>>>And, of course, it's been said that a component of the definition of LIFE > >itself is that it represents a *localized* reversal of entropy. -- Evan > >Soule'>>> > > > >Yes. Obviously. :) > >-Adam Grossman > > > > > > The "reversal" is over an incredibly small volume. > > DNA is information which is negative entropy. It lies at the core > of our cells which definitively increase entropy on the larger scale. > > All living DNA begins with poly-A-A-A-A-A-A which BTW reproduces. > Therefore our cells and bodies are the best "environment" to protect that > code, but probably at the expense of considerable further entropy. > > However, the volumetric ratio of the negative entropy portion of > our cells (DNA and RNA) is quite small compared to the rest > and much larger volume which decisively complies with the laws of > thermodynamics. > > Mitchell Swartz (mica@world.std.com) Really? It seems that groups of cells consume less ordered molecules, and break them down into components used to build more highly ordered cell structures. Look at the food chain, chock full of non-local interactions, but overall, biomass increases as inorganic material is used as food, and moves up the chain. If biomass increases overall, dont we have a macroscopic violation of the second law? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 14:36:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA24698; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:10:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:10:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:16:29 +0100 Message-Id: <199701272216.XAA02836@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de (Wolf-Dietrich Bauer) (by way of harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann)) Subject: Newman machine equations solved ?! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"XQPvz.0.o16.TVIxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1733 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi, we think we have found now the right formulars to describe the overubity effects of the Newman machines... For the magnetic fux inside the aircoil from a cyclic Newmanmotor the following formular is valid: Psi = B*A = mu_0* H*(1+Xi)=mu_0*(H+M) M is the Magnetism from the Dipoles of the media. In the case of the Newman maschine that is the permanent magnet with M=m/V (m=Dipole momentum). The differential equatation for this case is: R*I =U =n* d/dt(Psi) = mu_0*A*n* (d/dt)(n*I/l+m*cos(Phi)/V) = mu_0*A*n* (n/l* (d/dt)(I) + 1/V* (d/dt)(m*cos(Phi)) ) This differential equatation must be solved for the Newmanmaschine ! Because the magnetism momentum m will increase at rotation into the coil the Newman-principle is probably the same as the DNMEC Watson principle ! We will soon present a new theory article about that at: http://www.overunity.de Stay tuned ! Regards, Dieter and Stefan. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 14:49:38 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA10731; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:18:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:18:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32ECD613.30EC@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:21:39 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: scalar device (fwd) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fQGq01.0.ad2.dkHxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1730 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: William Beaty wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:27:03 -0500 (EST) > From: dclark@msmary.edu > Subject: scalar device > > I was just writing this in response to Mr. Bedini's scalar device. I was > curious as to what exactly a scalar field is, and what it does. from what > I have researched on the 'net, all i can seem to find is that scalar waves > come in different types and produce some type of interference. why does > Mr. Bedini's device produce changes in the CD? i am just getting into this > weird science thing that I found on your mainly on your page and I have many > questions and a lack of understanding with regard to why your devices do what > they do. This sort of thing has never been taught to me in school, or even > mentioned for that matter. Thank you for your time, and i am sorry for the > bad typing (lack of caps and typos). If you could respond in any fashion to > my questions it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again. > > Sincerely, > > David Clark > Does Bedini's device cause any changes on the CD? Not from what I have seen. I used a bit error rate testing CD, and found no binary changes to the stored data. Also, Bedini's device with it's opposed magnets does not actually sum any flux to zero, which is cirtical to scalar production. The modulation of the magnets might be a different matter, but this design fails to follow some basic rules for scalar production. You might read my response to Bill's "Scalar via Mirrors?" post to better understand why Bedini's design appears badly flawed as a scalar device. And no, you cannot produce scalars with mirrors alone. You also need some smoke, and a well trained white rabbit! ;-> (An attractive assistant helps distract the crowds too.) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 15:06:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA24476; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:10:07 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:10:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:16:01 +0100 Message-Id: <199701272216.XAA02833@mail.bbtt.com> X-Sender: harti@bbtt.de (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de (Wolf-Dietrich Bauer) (by way of harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann)) Subject: electrostatic Watson-effect possible as well Cc: newman-l@emachine.com Resent-Message-ID: <"jsuua2.0.4-5.xUIxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1732 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hallo All ! According to a proof of Tellegen in network theory energy in a network is conserved if R, L and C are constant, i.e. the coefficients of the network are constants. If you drop this assumption the lemma of Tellegen is not applicable and loss and overunity gain efficiency effects become possible. If you analyse the differential equation of the (magnetic) Watson-effect U= L*dI/dt + I*dL/dt + R*I then it becomes clear that the same effect must hold as well for electrostatic devices whose equation is I= C*dU/dt + U*dC/dt + U/R This is a differential equation for the following setup _____________________________________ | | | | _|_ _________|__________ <------- | | | resistor Air Capacitor C |------------| o | | R ____________________ |------------| U o |_| | dielectric | | | medium to be drawn | | | in capacitor -------------------------------------- during charging I do not know the Methernita machine exactly but perhaps someone with more concrete information can look at it and check it regarding this aspect ! Best regards Dieter Bauer From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 17:28:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA28236; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:19:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:19:02 -0800 From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Cc: dclark@msmary.edu Subject: Re: scalar device (fwd) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:15:18 -0500 Reply-To: bpaddock@execpc.com Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Lines: 132 Resent-Message-ID: <"TYX0v1.0.2v6.pNKxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1734 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >I was just writing this in response to Mr. Bedini's scalar device. I was >curious as to what exactly a scalar field is, and what it does... >...why does Mr. Bedini's device produce changes in the CD? -------------------- From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) To: john1@rand.nidlink.com Subject: Digitial Audio? Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 08:14:08 -0500 I've read of your CD Destresser in Explore!, and on www.keelynet.com [SCALAR4.ASC]. I feel that I'm missing the point. How does removing the stress from the CD media have any effect on the digital bit stream on that media, in such a way that effects the sound? -------------------- From: "john1" To: Subject: Re: Digitial Audio? Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 14:40:14 -0800 Bob Removing the stress from the CD lowers the noise floor on the CD, But do not take my word for it try one. John -------------------- [Properly in Digital Audio You have a Signal To Error Ratio instead of the more common Signal To Noise Ratio.] I'm not saying there is no effect in "Stress Reduction", and other claims they are making, I'm not qualified to judge, nor have the test equipment to prove. However CD's are digitally encoded digital bit streams, based on light reflections. I don't care how you "condition" the CD disk, it is not going to have ANY impact on the sound, unless you damage the disk beyond to ability of the Forward Error Correcting code's ability to repair the bit stream. This is in the same class of junk where gold plated cables are going to make your speakers sound better. Bindi and Beardon are trying to imply, in the detailed article in Explore, that CD's are similar to the old analog records. I might not know a lot about Scalar effects, but I make my living designing digital bit streams... The book "Principles of Digital Audio" by Ken Pohlmann published by Howard W. Sams & Co. ISBN: 0-672-22388-0 describes digital audio, and the workings of CD's in excruciating details. Also the data books from Hitachi and Phillips among others covers the various parts that are using in making of CD players. Heres how Digital Audio Works in a nut shell [This is perhaps to over simplified]: The audio when is recorded it is sampled by a Analog to Digital converter which which digitizes that data. This raw data is processed in several ways, such as scrambling the bits, known as "convolution". The is not to 'hide' the data in the conventual sense of scrambling but is done so that adjacent bits of the digital word do not appear side by side. The is is done to enhance the Forward Error Correction process that is done. What Forward Error Correction does is adds extra bits for redundancy so that on play back bit errors can be corrected before they are converted back into sound. The bottom line is that no matter how many "Stress Defects" you "Relieve" on a CD it is *NOT* going to change the sound that comes out of the CD with any conceivable objective measurement equipment. What they claim is that by exposing 'things' like metal to John's Scalar wave devices you can remove micro-fractures, ie. stress points. To me it seems they have come with a devices that lets you do in Cold Annealing [below], with out the heat and the weeks long cool down periods. I think this would be great, more power to them. Now of the Snake Oil Part: Replace the metal with a CD and treat it to remove stress from it. Ok, maybe you do end with with a CD with less stress in it. The nit I keep picking is So What? How does a less stressed CD effect the digital audio sound? They claim it makes the CD sound less harsh, and all the other crap you run into in the Stereo world of sound where reason and objective testing has no place it seems. One side note: Some people say tubes sound better than transistors. There is objective testing done that shows the differences is how each clips the signal peeks. You can make a transistor circuit clip the same as a tube, with lots of effort, where you can't tell the difference. The article says a independent party did do testing, but they presented no test results, or explained the method of testing. Annealing: In the Real World when you want to make a metal or Glass that has no defects you Anneal it. What this means is you make it in the normal way, then heat it back up almost, but not quite, to the melting point. Then V*E*R*Y S*L*O*W*L*Y cool it back down. This cool down time may be measured in *WEEKS*. You may have to repeat this process several times. What this does is gets all of the energy levels the same in the material. A energy level abnormality would be a stress point. So if John has figured out how to equalize these energy level while cold, he could revolutionize a few industries so why does he need to mess with CD's? I have the felling that John nor Beardon ever heard of Annealing, they solved a problem of a industry that they don't even know of, probably by accident like most, if they did any thing at all. -- For information on any of the following check out my WEB site at: http://www.execpc.com/~bpaddock/ or http://www.usachoice.net/bpaddock Chemical Free Air Conditioning/No CFC's, Chronic Pain Relief, Electromedicine, Electronics, Explore!, Free Energy, Full Disclosure, KeelyNet, Matric Limited, Neurophone, Oil City PA, Philadelphia Experiment. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 19:30:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA28944; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:05:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:05:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:08:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199701280308.TAA18312@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"pT9tc1.0.A47.DqMxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1735 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin wrote: >>There is a great deal of difference. A stiff, fast rise time, >>impulse > >No actually there is almost no difference. Which is why I put the >question as I did. The information you supply doesn't support your >statement that there is a great deal of difference. It does however >add to Bob's statement. IOW, it is not just that the magnetic >components of two em waves can cancel, but that this cancellation gets >stronger at higher frequencies. Perhaps this is related to the >physical dimensions of the actual devices. I.e. the closer the match >between actual size of the object and wavelength of the em wave, the >better it works. In this case, one might expect cm or even mm waves to >work best. > >>is required. The higher dV/dT, the better. All these translators >>have "leaks" and Nature's preference is to emit EM. Once the >>translator is constructed as tightly as possible, a fast dV/dT driver >>is a must to translate as much energy as possible in scalar >>potential. No, Robin there is a great deal of difference. High frequency is not a requirement as only a single pulse with high dV/dT will produce a scalar output. (I note your subtle shift from DC to high frequency.) Secondly, voltage amplitude is important. A high frequency with low voltage amplitude won't produce much of an output. A few high frequency millivolts just won't do it. It messes up the high dV/dT requirement. A square wave with an infinitely short rise time would be ideal. A stiff driver with low impedence is also good requirement. Much of your conjecture is just that. You have provided no basis of fact for your stated opinions. Since this is a list for experimenters, I suggest you may benefit from winding a few bifilar coils of your own. The experimental results may astound you. RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 19:55:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA01301; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:30:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:30:48 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:28:27 -0800 Message-Id: <199701280328.TAA23779@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: News flash. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"WgTcj1.0.EK.cBNxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1736 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: 1/27/96 Mitchell wrote: snip > The "reversal" is over an incredibly small volume. > > DNA is information which is negative entropy. It lies at the core >of our cells which definitively increase entropy on the larger scale. > > All living DNA begins with poly-A-A-A-A-A-A which BTW reproduces. >Therefore our cells and bodies are the best "environment" to protect >that code, but probably at the expense of considerable further >entropy. > > However, the volumetric ratio of the negative entropy portion of >our cells (DNA and RNA) is quite small compared to the rest >and much larger volume which decisively complies with the laws of >thermodynamics. > > Mitchell Swartz (mica@world.std.com) > Mitchell, What kind of BS is this? What's poly-A-A-A-A-A-A? I asure you DNA isn't made of it. Your comprehension of biophysiology on both micro and macroscopic scales is sorely lacking. All living organisms on all scales are infinitely more complex than the materials of which they are made. Why do you restrict this process to only DNA? Volumetric ratio? What's the nuclear/cytoplasmic ratio of the HIV virus? RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 20:19:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA08826; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:08:40 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:08:40 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:13:46 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701280413.UAA16908@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"g3GYg.0.h92.5lNxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1738 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:08 PM 1/27/97 -0800, you wrote: >Robin wrote: > >>>There is a great deal of difference. A stiff, fast rise time, >>>impulse >> >>No actually there is almost no difference. Which is why I put the >>question as I did. The information you supply doesn't support your >>statement that there is a great deal of difference. It does however >>add to Bob's statement. IOW, it is not just that the magnetic >>components of two em waves can cancel, but that this cancellation gets >>stronger at higher frequencies. Perhaps this is related to the >>physical dimensions of the actual devices. I.e. the closer the match >>between actual size of the object and wavelength of the em wave, the >>better it works. In this case, one might expect cm or even mm waves to >>work best. >> >>>is required. The higher dV/dT, the better. All these translators >>>have "leaks" and Nature's preference is to emit EM. Once the >>>translator is constructed as tightly as possible, a fast dV/dT driver >>>is a must to translate as much energy as possible in scalar >>>potential. > >No, Robin there is a great deal of difference. High frequency is not a >requirement as only a single pulse with high dV/dT will produce a >scalar output. (I note your subtle shift from DC to high frequency.) >Secondly, voltage amplitude is important. A high frequency with low >voltage amplitude won't produce much of an output. A few high >frequency millivolts just won't do it. It messes up the high dV/dT >requirement. A square wave with an infinitely short rise time would be >ideal. A stiff driver with low impedence is also good requirement. > >Much of your conjecture is just that. You have provided no basis of >fact for your stated opinions. Since this is a list for experimenters, >I suggest you may benefit from winding a few bifilar coils of your own. >The experimental results may astound you. > >RWW: Have you wound and tested any and if so what were your results? > > > > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 20:24:49 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA06720; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:59:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:59:41 -0800 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:02:50 -0500 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19970127230059.681f5510@world.std.com> X-Sender: mica@world.std.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Mitchell Swartz Subject: Re: News flash. Resent-Message-ID: <"0x4XZ1.0.se1.hcNxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1737 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 07:28 PM 1/27/97 -0800, Richard Wayne Wall wrote: > >Mitchell, > >What kind of BS is this? What's poly-A-A-A-A-A-A? I asure you DNA >isn't made of it. DNA has four bases, adenine, guanine, etc. often coded as A, G, C, and T. poly A is A-A-A-A-A-A and it binds to T-T-T-T-T-T as the complementary strand. poly A refers to the fact that it is a polymer. A-A-A-A-A is the primary structure. Try some reading, Richard, since although you accuse other of having no comprehension of biophysiology this material involving the DNA bases is well known. You might look up Watson and Crick, or any of the hundreds of books on the subject. > All living organisms on all >scales are infinitely more complex than the materials of which they are >made. Why do you restrict this process to only DNA? Volumetric ratio? >What's the nuclear/cytoplasmic ratio of the HIV virus? > >RWW > Dont understand what you are talking about. The discussion was about information molecules which demonstrate negative entropy, i.e. information. Hope that helps. Mitchell Swartz From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 21:56:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA26392; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:44:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 21:44:51 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 05:48:19 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32f583b8.18395359@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <2.2.16.19970127004636.13af1eda@world.std.com> <32ECD978.7D91@tiac.net> In-Reply-To: <32ECD978.7D91@tiac.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AABxh2.0.FS6.E9Pxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1739 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:36:08 +0000, Bob Shannon wrote: [snip] >structures. Look at the food chain, chock full of non-local >interactions, but overall, biomass increases as inorganic material is >used as food, and moves up the chain. > >If biomass increases overall, dont we have a macroscopic violation of >the second law? > > Actually, as biomass moves up the food chain, the mass decreases enormously. Most food winds up as CO2 and water returned to the environment. Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 22:27:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA00613; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:16:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:16:42 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970127222120.009c548c@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:21:21 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: AIDS virus is electrosensitive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"lASSD1.0.V9.7dPxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1741 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This has nothing to do with FE, but is interesting enough to be posted here. I've just seen a program on public TV channel (KBTC) about the AIDS virus being sensitive to electric current. They showed electron microscope photographs of the virus subjected to 1 hour of 2 uA at 30 V. (in nylon tube apx. 3mm ID, 100mm long). The protein envelope distortion was quite apparent. (in comparison with a control sample) The narrator claimed that exposure to electric current and subsequent distortion of the virus' envelope makes the virus more susceptible to the human immune system. This electrosensitivity was apparently noticed after some hospital patients using TENS units for muscle rehabilitation tested negative for HIV after previous positive test. If this is true this method probably could be applied in vivo without discomfort to the patient considering the low current necessary for the virus's protein enveloped distortion. The best path for the current flow is through major blood vessels in legs or arms encompassing the largest blood volume (ie. from ankle to ankle). One would have to reverse the polarity of the current once in a while to prevent skin irritation caused by electrolysis. I remember reading somewhere that telephone repairmen are a group of people that are the most often subjected to low level electrical shock. Maybe somebody should do a statistical study to see if their HIV infection/remission rate is lower/higher. I bet no pharmacological company will sponsor such study :-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 22:28:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA30144; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:03:51 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:03:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199701280603.WAA30098@mx1.eskimo.com> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: scalar device (fwd) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:49:56 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"RooFn.0.mM7.2RPxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1740 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: "john1" > Removing the stress from the CD lowers the noise floor on the CD, How is it supposed to do that, since it's digital? The idea reminds me of the endless parade of neurotics I see on the digital broadcast satellite newsgroups complaining that they're only getting an 80% on the signal meter while someone somewhere is getting 90%! > But do not take my word for it try one. This is how all claims should be approached, ideally, but the problem with this particular one is that some people can hear things others can't. And then there are the people who can hear the difference if they run a grean marker around the edge of their CD. At least he explained that it removes the stress from the metal. His original article on KeelyNet didn't really explain what was supposed to happen, and I found his patent abstract almost incomprehensible with physics jargon. But I did apparently theorize correctly that he was claiming something similar to Karl Drbal's Czechoslovakian pyramid razor-sharpening patent, in that the energy removed micro-defects in the structure of the metal. > From: bpaddock@execpc.com (Bob Paddock) > What this does is gets all of the energy levels the same in > the material. A energy level abnormality would be a stress > point. So if John has figured out how to equalize these > energy level while cold, he could revolutionize a few > industries so why does he need to mess with CD's? My thoughts exactly. "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 22:53:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA06975; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:42:50 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:42:50 -0800 X-Sender: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 01:47:27 -0600 To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: BULLETIN.......... Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net Resent-Message-ID: <"JSub_.0.qi1.d_Pxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1743 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BULLETIN.......... Energy Machine Inventor Joseph Newman will be featured on the Roger Fredinburg Show at 8:00PM (Pacific Time) this Thursday, January 30, 1997. The Roger Fredinburg Show will be carried Coast-to-Coast on 170 radio stations on the TALK RADIO NETWORK (AM). This is the same network which carries the Art Bell Show. Please consult your local radio stations in case (re)broadcast times may vary from city to city. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 22:59:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA05103; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:35:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:35:20 -0800 From: rvanspaa@netspace.net.au (Robin van Spaandonk) To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:38:51 GMT Organization: Improving Message-ID: <32fa974d.23409361@mail.netspace.net.au> References: <199701280308.TAA18312@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <199701280308.TAA18312@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.354 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1KFg4.0.bF1.duPxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1742 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:08:33 -0800, Richard Wayne Wall wrote: [snip] >>No actually there is almost no difference. Which is why I put the This statement means that there is almost no difference between DC and AC with a cycle time of 1000000 years. [snip] >No, Robin there is a great deal of difference. High frequency is not a The difference you are referring to is not the difference I was referring to. >requirement as only a single pulse with high dV/dT will produce a >scalar output. A fourier analysis of such a pulse will show that it contains high frequency components, as a consequence of the fast rise time. >(I note your subtle shift from DC to high frequency.) No. What you are beginning to notice is that you didn't understand what I initially wrote. But it's taking a long time to sink in. >Secondly, voltage amplitude is important. A high frequency with low >voltage amplitude won't produce much of an output. A few high >frequency millivolts just won't do it. It messes up the high dV/dT >requirement. A square wave with an infinitely short rise time would be >ideal. A stiff driver with low impedence is also good requirement. See above. > >Much of your conjecture is just that. You have provided no basis of True. However experiment without theory is just as useless as theory without experiment. You need some form of framework to bind observations together. Otherwise you have no basis for prediction, and further experimentation must necessarily be random rather than directed. While in the end the result may be fruitful, it will probably take longer to achieve. >fact for your stated opinions. Since this is a list for experimenters, I'm glad to see that you realise that they are only opinions. >I suggest you may benefit from winding a few bifilar coils of your own. No doubt I would. >The experimental results may astound you. Possibly. I note that very few of the contributors to this list provide *only* the results of experimentation, without also providing the benefits of their opinion. Sometimes different opinions help to clarify points which are otherwise ignored. Robin van Spaandonk -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Check out: http://netspace.net.au/~rvanspaa for how CF depends on temperature. "....,then he should stop, and he will catch up..." -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Mon Jan 27 23:27:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA14557; Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:17:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:17:18 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:20:19 -0600 To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Note of Appreciation.... Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"RDnGi3.0.JZ3.xVQxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1744 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Resent-Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:10:39 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: bauer.d@krypta.aball.de (Wolf-Dietrich Bauer) (by way of harti@bbtt.de (Stefan Hartmann)) Subject: Newman machine equations solved ?! Cc: newman-l@emachine.com >Hi, > >we think we have found now the right formulas to describe the >overunity effects of the Newman Machines... > >For the magnetic fux inside the aircoil from a cyclic Newman Motor the >following formula is valid: > >Psi = B*A = mu_0* H*(1+Xi)=mu_0*(H+M) > >M is the Magnetism from the Dipoles of the media. > >In the case of the Newman Machine >that is the permanent magnet with M=m/V (m=Dipole momentum). > >The differential equation for this case is: > >R*I =U =n* d/dt(Psi) = mu_0*A*n* (d/dt)(n*I/l+m*cos(Phi)/V) > = mu_0*A*n* (n/l* (d/dt)(I) + 1/V* (d/dt)(m*cos(Phi)) ) > >This differential equation must be solved for the Newman Machine ! > >Because the magnetism momentum m will increase at rotation into the coil >the Newman-principle is probably the same as the DNMEC Watson principle ! > >We will soon present a new theory article about that at: >http://www.overunity.de > >Stay tuned ! > >Regards, >Dieter and Stefan. Dear Dieter and Stefan, I faxed your comments to Joseph Newman and later spoke with him by telephone. To paraphrase: he asked me to pass along to you his sincere appreciation for your efforts to translate the mechanics of his life's work into mathematics so that others may better understand the processes involved. He encourages your work in this area. Thanks and best regards, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 02:30:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id CAA09470 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:30:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:30:01 -0800 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 02:29:44 1997 Received: from tweety.bhp.com.au (tweety.bhp.com.au [192.83.224.130]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA09348 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 02:29:41 -0800 Received: from gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au (gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au [134.18.115.254]) by tweety.bhp.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id VAA15532 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:32:32 +1100 (EST) Received: from imc.itmel.bhp.com.au ([203.7.108.42]) by gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA03172 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:32:00 +1100 (EST) Received: by imc.itmel.bhp.com.au with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC0D62.9C2D93C0@imc.itmel.bhp.com.au>; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:31:23 +1100 Message-ID: <01BC0D62.9C2D93C0@imc.itmel.bhp.com.au> From: System Administrator To: Subject: Undeliverable: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #66 Old-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 21:31:23 +1100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 X-Diagnostic: Mail to Watchers.Darren.DP@bhp.com.au bounced 0 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients. To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #66 Sent: 28/1/97 21:31:23 PM The following recipient(s) could not be reached: Watchers.Darren.DP@bhp.com.au on 28/1/97 21:31:23 PM Ambiguous Recipient MSEXCH:IMC:BHP:BHPMEL:BHPMEL_EXCHGW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 04:22:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA22081; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 03:58:54 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 03:58:54 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:01:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970128070146_-1912349355@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. Resent-Message-ID: <"8spEG1.0.vO5.zdUxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1745 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>DNA has four bases, adenine, guanine, etc. often coded as A, G, C, and T. poly A is A-A-A-A-A-A and it binds to T-T-T-T-T-T as the complementary strand. poly A refers to the fact that it is a polymer. A-A-A-A-A is the primary structure.>>> Heck, I learned this in 9th grade biology. :) -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 05:49:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id FAA31731; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 05:25:36 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 05:25:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199701281328.IAA001.62@cougar.ssi.stratus.com> From: "Charlie Hodgson" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 08:27:48 -0500 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970127222120.009c548c@mail.localaccess.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.22 (Unregistered) Resent-Message-ID: <"I7vxX1.0.il7.EvVxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1746 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In <3.0.32.19970127222120.009c548c@mail.localaccess.com>, on 01/27/97 at 10:21 PM, Epitaxy said: >human immune system. This electrosensitivity was apparently noticed >after some hospital patients using TENS units for muscle rehabilitation What's a TENS unit?? Charlie -- Any sufficiently advanced technology looks like magic. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 06:16:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA08774; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:06:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:06:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:08:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199701281408.GAA23612@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: News flash. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"TvySZ3.0.w82.8VWxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1747 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Adam wrote: > >>>>DNA has four bases, adenine, guanine, etc. often coded as > A, G, C, and T. poly A is A-A-A-A-A-A and it binds to T-T-T-T-T-T >as the complementary strand. poly A refers to the fact that it >is a polymer. A-A-A-A-A is the primary structure.>>> > >Heck, I learned this in 9th grade biology. :) >-Adam Grossman > > Actually, information this basic is taught in kindergarten. :) RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 06:39:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA12180; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:22:02 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:22:02 -0800 Message-ID: <32EDC5E8.5BCC@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:24:56 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970126081403.009acefc@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2-34s3.0.1-2.1kWxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1748 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > >> Practical note: The current in the coil should never be allowed to build > >> up to the I=E/R level. The R of the coil is a bad way to limit the > >> current, charging time should be used instead. > > > >Can you expand on why? > > In an ideal coil (zero R, zero C, etc) the current increases with time > WITHOUT limit. That means if we had infinite time the current would build > up to infinite magnitude. In a realistic coil the DC resistance provides a > limit to the maximum current according to the Ohm's law I=E/R. So with a > given supply voltage the current in a coil is capable only reaching a > certain limit imposed by R. After this limit is reached the coil behaves > as a simple resistor and dissipates the electrical energy flowing through > it at a rate of RI^2. This is undesirable because electrical energy > dissipated in this way (heat) is unrecoverable. Right, after the rate if field increase drops toward zero, we reach a point of diminishing returns from the energy used to support the field. Understood. > Constant voltage regulation was used. The coil was connected to the power > supply through a series current sensing resistor. An oscilloscope was > hooked up to both ends of the resistor. The voltage across this current > sensing resistor was proportional to the current flowing through the coil. > A non-conductive ferrite core was allowed to be attracted by the coil. A > current drop in the coil's circuit was observed. Interesting. Can you post any specifics of these tests? What value series resistor was used, voltage applied, etc? Concider the following experiment: Two inductors, L1 and L2, are connected in series. L2 has a switch connected in parallel, that is, across L2, shorting it. Assume no mutual inducance between L1 and L2. We apply a fixed voltage, and current begins to flow through L1 but around L2. L2 begins to form a field and store energy. We allow this current to build up to the limit posed by the DC resistance (yes, and begin wasting energy). As L1 builds its field, we measure the voltage across L1, and the total current flowing. These values are integrated, and the phase angle between current and voltage are factored in to give the total energy stored in L1. At this point, the switch shorting L2 is opened. The total inductance of the circuit has gone up 100% (assuming L1 and L2 are equal) and additional current flows until an equal field is produced by L2. Again, total current is integrated, and we calculate the total energy stored by L1 and L2, in their respective fields. At this point, the energy input is equal to the stored energy less any resistive losses. The increase in inductance with a fixed voltage applied resulted in an increase in current, and total energy used by the circuit. Now we compare this with a coil who's inductance is increased by the attraction of a magnetic core. It seems that you claim that not only will less current flow through the coil at the core is attracted, and that the energy of this attraction is not supplied by the coil current. There has been discussion of the concept that motional magnetic induction, and induction by a time varing magnetic field are not quite the same effects (Hooper, etc.). So, other than motional vs. time varient fields, why is the increase in inductance by the approach of the coil not met with an increase in coil current and net energy from the source of voltage, as it is in the example given above? In your opinion, is this effect described in conventional theory, or are you claiming the discovery of a new effect here? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 07:01:10 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA14206; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:31:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:31:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:34:30 -0500 (EST) From: John Alexander Lotoski To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970127222120.009c548c@mail.localaccess.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"sswSK2.0.uT3.rsWxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1749 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > This has nothing to do with FE, but is interesting enough to be posted here. > > I've just seen a program on public TV channel (KBTC) about the AIDS virus > being sensitive to electric current. They showed electron microscope > photographs of the virus subjected to 1 hour of 2 uA at 30 V. (in nylon > tube apx. 3mm ID, 100mm long). The protein envelope distortion was quite > apparent. (in comparison with a control sample) ... Do a browse with a search engine on the net... You'll find some very detailed and interesting pages on this subject... If you can't find the main page i'm talking about, e-mail me if your interested and i 'll see if i can dig it up again. John From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 07:03:30 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA18869; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:50:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:50:33 -0800 Message-ID: <32EDCCA5.6C9B@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:53:41 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. References: <199701280308.TAA18312@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> <32fa974d.23409361@mail.netspace.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"KxTfm3.0.Hc4.r8Xxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1751 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Robin van Spaandonk wrote: > I note that very few of the contributors to this list provide *only* the > results of experimentation, without also providing the benefits of their > opinion. Sometimes different opinions help to clarify points which are > otherwise ignored. Quite true. It is also interesting to note that many contributors provide *only* opinion and theory. It is important to grind one theory against another, so that any points of friction may be addressed by experiment. But despite what might have been intended, the idea came across that very low frequancies were no different from higher ones, and this is clearly incorrect. A great many effects depend on the rate of change, and this includes scalar production which was the original subject. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 07:05:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA19250; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:52:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:52:13 -0800 Message-ID: <32EDCD0B.44C5@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:55:23 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Scalar via mirrors] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"Qkmvi3.0.ei4.RAXxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1752 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: <32ECD4B1.488E@tiac.net> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:15:45 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: William Beaty Subject: Re: Scalar via mirrors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Beaty wrote: > This reminds me of something I've wondered about. An old posting mentions > that one method of generating a scalar field is to place a shorting turn > at the top of a Tesla coil. The induced current in the ring is 180deg > away from the TC current, and the TC field and shorting-ring field cancel > each other, leaving a scalar stress field. We produce a scalar 'potential' this way, which prohibts the expression of conventional EM. Such rings are used (without the scalar version of their theory of operation mind you!) are often used in physically large HV multipliers to suppress HV corona, and are called anti-corona rings. You will also see these rings installed in atom smashers and other cool HV stuff. > If this works, then it has interesting implications. Suppose we surround > an entire tesla coil with shorting turns. The current in these rings will > be 180deg out of phase with the TC current, and will cancel the > conventional em field outside the rings, presumably leaving a scalar > field. If this works, then why not surround the TC with a complete copper > tube? Or, to create a simple scalar emitter, place any coil in a shielded > box? The fields may not balance properly, since one coil is larger than > the other (the metal box being the second coil). But will it function as > a scalar emitter? To get the scalar to express itself externally, we must suppress all EM emissions, not just redirect them as with a directional EM antenna. > More: metal shielding is able to shield and reflect EM because induced > currents in the metal are 180deg out of phase with the incoming fields, > and these currents produce their own fields which cancel the incoming > fields. So, if you drive a small coil with AC and then put it inside a > metal tube, the metal tube acts as a shield only because it creates > perfect phase cancellation of fields outside itself. It doesn't STOP the > EM fields from getting out, instead it cancels them. Exactly right. All those Tempest rated computer installations, inside faraday cages so you cannot spook the emissions are rendered uselss with a scalar detector, but for only for those waves which cancel between the source and shield. I hear that the Tempest rated computer installation business died off some time ago. > Even more: When a shield is placed around a coil, at the same time that > the EM field outside the shield is cancelled, the field inside the shield > is strengthened. It's as if the shield was a mirror, and was reflecting > the AC field back inside. In fact, this is how mirrors work. When a beam > of EM waves collides with a conductive sheet, it induces fields in the > conductor, and these fields emit their own EM waves. The emitted waves > produce a reflected beam as well as a phase-shifted transmitted beam. The > original EM beam is perfectly canceled by the 180deg beam emitted in the > same direction by the sheet. The result is apparently simple reflection, > but in fact the metal sheet is cancelling one incoming beam and creating > the reflected beam. > > Reflection SEEMS to be this: > The beams below the mirrors add up to zero. So, do mirrors create scalar > fields? If I produce a microwave beam and then bounce it from a flat > metal plate, won't there still be a beam on the far side of the mirror, a > beam composed of two overlapped EM beams, and the scalar stress field they > create? This implies that strong, focussed scalar fields can be created > by creating strong, focussed EM waves, and then placing a mirror so as to > remove the EM and create the scalar. Nope! Indeed a scalar potnetial is envolved in the reflection of the beam, but the potentials of the waves are still expressed as vectors, or the reflected EM wave. If the potential is able to express itself as EM, it will do so (the reflected EM wave!). To get the sort of scalar waves Bearden likes to talk about, you need to suppress the reflected wave as well. Tricky, but doable. In the optical range, a retroreflector at the end of a tuned optical cavity will do. You can also get there with Fabrey Perrot interferometers and such. Personally, I've never seen one of these phase conjugate mirrors, but if what I've heard of them is true, these ought to be cool to play with too. > This implies that shielded devices such as VHF transmitters and microwave > ovens are possibly-dangerous sources of scalar EM. And HeNe lasers may > unexpectedly emit an optical-freq scalar beam out their back end, since > the back end of the laser tube has a nearly 100% mirror which > cancels/reflects the beam within the tube. Microwave ovens yes, to a limited degree, and in a slightly different manner: Microwave heating is caused by induced atomic currents producing viberation in water molecules. There is clearly EM expression of the waves potentials within the shielded cavity, so we do not have scalar wave emission in the true sense. The net atomic currents may be another matter however. This gets into scalar resonance, which is a bit more complex. This is pure speculation at this point, but water heated by microwaves might become pair coupled to 120 hz scalars. (120 hz becuase there are two periods of maximum potential per cycle, so opposed 60 hz waves yeild a 120 Hz scalar. You can detect 120 hz emissions with a Barkhausen effect detector. HeNe lasers emit vector EM radiation, so again the wave potentials wich sume to zero at one reflector are expressed out of the other partial reflector, so there is no 'emission'. That 'potnetial' scalar does it's job in keeping the beam comming out of the other end. (The other side of the 'mirror' from the EM explanation of the operation of the laser, it's not just a really bad pun!) We should keep in mind that scalar electromagnetics is an extension of conventional EM, not a replacement for it. It's the flip side of the EM coin in a sense. > What frequencies of scalar emissions pose a biological hazard? Should we > be cautious with the back ends of particular colors of laser tube? > Suppose I operate two microwave ovens at once, will the surrounding scalar > interference effects be hazardous? This is an interesting question indeed. I tend to think that it's not the specific frequancy of the waves in opposition, but the resultant substructure of the scalar potential produced that effects the biological activity of the field. This is why I am personally interested in the effects produced by devices that pattern the local ZPE flux. To yeild 'free' energy on a large scale, we must impose a determinisitic pattern. This is also what happens around some power distribution systems that suppress the magnetic fields for 'health' related reasons. This practice may make things worse rather than better. I've found widly differing levels of free B fields and free A fields around commercial and domestic power distribution equipment. This suggests that the odd relationships between magnetic field exposure and adverse health effects might be due to the ratios of A and B fields. None of the epidemiological studies of power line induced health effects to date have looked at this point. Note that the recent concen over high voltage transmission lines has caused some utilities to wire the towers in such a way that proximate conductors carry opposed currents to reduce magnetic emissions. In my opinion, this was a rash, knee jerk reaction that is probalby in exactly the wrong direction. > Of course, if the shorting-ring trick with the Tesla coil does not work, > then my reasoning falls apart. If mirror reflection doesn't produce > scalar fields, exactly why does it not? As discussed above, the 'scalar' effect of the lasers mirror is to produce an EM wave from the other end of the laser, so there will be no external effect. The shielded TC is closer to being workable, but we must suppress EM expression of the opposed potentials. We need to fold the EM wave back onto itself. Int he HF spectrum, this is not so hard to do. A shorted transmission line is a good start. We could place this, or a twisted pair transmission line inside a faraday cage (like 1 inch copper pipe with end caps soldered in place) and work up a impendance matching network to feed the thing. Then you need a detector! If this scalar can go through faraday cages uneffected, we cannot expect that encountering another translator (as sued to create the scalar) will produce an EM output. It's not that simple. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 07:06:37 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA17083; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:41:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 06:41:58 -0800 Message-ID: <32EDCAA3.37C3@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:45:07 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: News flash. References: <2.2.16.19970127230059.681f5510@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rYKuk2.0.mA4.o0Xxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1750 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Mitchell Swartz wrote: > > At 07:28 PM 1/27/97 -0800, Richard Wayne Wall wrote: > > > > >Mitchell, > > > >What kind of BS is this? What's poly-A-A-A-A-A-A? I asure you DNA > >isn't made of it. > > DNA has four bases, adenine, guanine, etc. often coded as > A, G, C, and T. poly A is A-A-A-A-A-A and it binds to T-T-T-T-T-T > as the complementary strand. poly A refers to the fact that it > is a polymer. A-A-A-A-A is the primary structure. > > Try some reading, Richard, since although you accuse other of having > no comprehension of biophysiology this material involving the DNA bases > is well known. You might look up Watson and Crick, or any of the > hundreds of books on the subject. Oy! He knows not..... I think the good Doctor knows of Watson and Crick! > > All living organisms on all > >scales are infinitely more complex than the materials of which they are > >made. Why do you restrict this process to only DNA? Volumetric ratio? > >What's the nuclear/cytoplasmic ratio of the HIV virus? > > > >RWW > > > Dont understand what you are talking about. The discussion was > about information molecules which demonstrate negative entropy, > i.e. information. Here's the point Mitchell, the order of the cell is higher than that of it's food. Information is not by any means restricted to DNA. Order is not restricted to what we recognise as information, but also to structure. And this is only implicate order. There is also explicate order in the functions and interactions of the cells organs and processes. Clearly biology violates the second law bigtime! Also, the wastes from the processes of biology (which are never wasted, but are reused!) are still more higly ordered than the original foods in many cases. It comes down to the cold equation that there are billions of more tone of biomass wiggeling about today than there was long ago, and this biomass was made from less ordered materials, but is currently much more highly ordered structures with both implicate and explicate orders present. The discussion touched on the point that biology is negentropic. Does not the complexity of biology raise over time? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 07:32:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA23800; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:07:15 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:07:15 -0800 Message-ID: <32EDD08E.20A5@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:10:22 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Secod law violation? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HmSNc3.0.op5.YOXxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1753 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ADam Grossman wrote: > >>>If biomass increases overall, dont we have a macroscopic violation of > the second law?>>> > > It doesn't matter how large this violation is, just as long as IN THE WHOLE > UNIVERSE entropy increase, which it does. Take animals for example....even > though we have low entropy (like in DNA), we create a lot more entropy in the > energy we release in the form of heat and all the different movements of our > body (like walking around) we also get this energy by breaking down food, > which is an increase of entropy. Ok, we have no idea how prolific life might be in the universe. Just recently it was discovered that over half the galaxies in the universe have a surface brightness equal to teh background sky, and therefore had escaped detection. If we know so little, how can you proove that entropy over the whole of the universe does indeed increase? Also, the point was made the biology violates the second law, and it does do. This is quite seperate from the universe as a whole, which we still poorly understand at best. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 07:51:22 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA32710; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:40:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:40:20 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970128074456.009d43c8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:44:57 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"CRGck.0.0_7.XtXxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1755 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, I see what you mean. Looks like other people stumbled on this too. The interesting improvement, I noticed, was the use of a sharp & strong magnetic pulse to induce eddy currents in conductive tissues in order to reach areas of the human body that do not have blood circulating through it. Apparently the other method does not affect the HIV virus hiding in lymph nodes. The magnetic pulse takes care of that. I wonder if people living under power lines have less HIV infections ? Could this be a $50 AIDS cure ? At 09:34 AM 1/28/97 -0500, you wrote: > >> This has nothing to do with FE, but is interesting enough to be posted here. >> >> I've just seen a program on public TV channel (KBTC) about the AIDS virus >> being sensitive to electric current. They showed electron microscope >> photographs of the virus subjected to 1 hour of 2 uA at 30 V. (in nylon >> tube apx. 3mm ID, 100mm long). The protein envelope distortion was quite >> apparent. (in comparison with a control sample) > > ... > > Do a browse with a search engine on the net... You'll find some >very detailed and interesting pages on this subject... > > If you can't find the main page i'm talking about, e-mail me if >your interested and i 'll see if i can dig it up again. > > John > > From freenrg-digest-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 07:52:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA02583 for bilb@eskimo.com; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:51:51 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:51:51 -0800 X-Envelope-From: MAILER-DAEMON@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 07:51:36 1997 Received: from tweety.bhp.com.au (tweety.bhp.com.au [192.83.224.130]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA02456 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:51:32 -0800 Received: from gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au (gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au [134.18.115.254]) by tweety.bhp.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id CAA28865 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 02:54:43 +1100 (EST) Received: from imc.itmel.bhp.com.au ([203.7.108.42]) by gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA19367 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 02:54:12 +1100 (EST) Received: by imc.itmel.bhp.com.au with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BC0D8F.A2394D40@imc.itmel.bhp.com.au>; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 02:53:41 +1100 Message-ID: <01BC0D8F.A237C6A0@imc.itmel.bhp.com.au> From: System Administrator To: Subject: Undeliverable: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #67 Old-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 02:53:41 +1100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 X-Diagnostic: Mail to Watchers.Darren.DP@bhp.com.au bounced 0 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: freenrg-digest-request Status: O X-Status: Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients. To: freenrg-digest@eskimo.com Subject: freenrg-digest Digest V97 #67 Sent: 29/1/97 2:53:41 AM The following recipient(s) could not be reached: Watchers.Darren.DP@bhp.com.au on 29/1/97 2:53:41 AM Ambiguous Recipient MSEXCH:IMC:BHP:BHPMEL:BHPMEL_EXCHGW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 07:57:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA30452; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:32:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:32:47 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970128073714.009d4474@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:37:15 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"WVDOG1.0.YR7.OmXxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1754 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: It is a device that stimulates muscle contraction by applying electrical current. It is often used to prevent or treat muscle atrophy. At 08:27 AM 1/28/97 -0500, you wrote: >>human immune system. This electrosensitivity was apparently noticed >>after some hospital patients using TENS units for muscle rehabilitation > >What's a TENS unit?? > >Charlie From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 08:15:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA02586; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:51:53 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 07:51:53 -0800 Message-Id: <199701281551.HAA02507@mx1.eskimo.com> Date: 28 Jan 1997 10:08 EST Sender: "Gene Batten" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: "Gene Batten" Subject: George Wiseman ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"um0lD2.0.zd.L2Yxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1756 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Does anybody on this list know what is going on with George Wiseman? Early in December I ordered some publications from him and I have not received a reply yet. I even sent a follow up letter in early January and still no reply. Back in the summer, I orderd some publications and the order was filled promptly. I hope things are well with George and he is not sick or something. Thanks for any updates. Gene Batten mdleb@nortel.ca From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 08:32:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA09193; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:13:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:13:34 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970128081820.009ceac8@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 08:18:21 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Cw0B8.0.YF2.hMYxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1757 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I used: 0.1 ohm resistor, 12 volts constant voltage power supply, coil's DC resistance 25ohms, Coil's air inductance 10mH. The ferrite had an electrical resistance of 100Kohm/cm^3. BTW: I also made a control experiment where I measured the EMF induced by the approaching ferrite alone. (the coil was not energized by the power supply) I did this to see if the remanent magnetization of the ferrite will induce EMF in the coil. It did NOT with the ferrite core I was using but it did induce extremely small EMF with a solid iron core. (I didn't use the iron core in the other experiment) At 09:24 AM 1/28/97 +0000, you wrote: >>Epitaxy wrote: >> Constant voltage regulation was used. The coil was connected to the power >> supply through a series current sensing resistor. An oscilloscope was >> hooked up to both ends of the resistor. The voltage across this current >> sensing resistor was proportional to the current flowing through the coil. >> A non-conductive ferrite core was allowed to be attracted by the coil. A >> current drop in the coil's circuit was observed. > >Interesting. Can you post any specifics of these tests? What value >series resistor was used, voltage applied, etc? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 10:39:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA01573; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:53:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:53:16 -0800 Message-ID: <32EE3D38.6975@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:54:00 -0500 From: Ben Tammetta Reply-To: tammetta@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive (was on art bell too) References: <3.0.32.19970127222120.009c548c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"voHfI3.0.PO.AqZxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1758 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, A guy named Wayne Green appeared as a guest on the Art Bell Talk Show That has made such a device and even sells a kit to build one. I believe he made it to cure other sicknesses, and improve the immune system, but found out aids patients began testing negative after using his device. It all sounded good to me. All of Art's progrmas are archived so you can listen to it over the net using a Real Audio player. If you have the player go to. http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/artbell.html and choose program from: 1/22/1997 You may have to fast forware the program to get to the right part. Sorry continuing an "off the subject thread". But if this is really true, it would have, just as profound effect, as a free energy device would. ben ben@clubelite.com Epitaxy wrote: > > This has nothing to do with FE, but is interesting enough to be posted here. > > I've just seen a program on public TV channel (KBTC) about the AIDS virus > being sensitive to electric current. They showed electron microscope > photographs of the virus subjected to 1 hour of 2 uA at 30 V. (in nylon > tube apx. 3mm ID, 100mm long). The protein envelope distortion was quite > apparent. (in comparison with a control sample) > > The narrator claimed that exposure to electric current and subsequent > distortion of the virus' envelope makes the virus more susceptible to the > human immune system. This electrosensitivity was apparently noticed after > some hospital patients using TENS units for muscle rehabilitation tested > negative for HIV after previous positive test. If this is true this method > probably could be applied in vivo without discomfort to the patient > considering the low current necessary for the virus's protein enveloped > distortion. The best path for the current flow is through major blood > vessels in legs or arms encompassing the largest blood volume (ie. from > ankle to ankle). One would have to reverse the polarity of the current > once in a while to prevent skin irritation caused by electrolysis. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 10:43:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA02267; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:56:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:56:35 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970128100106.009eac98@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:01:14 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: DNMEC principle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ReccT.0.LZ.HtZxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1759 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 12:13 PM 1/28/97 +0000, you wrote: >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> Actually I am not sure. To be sure I would need to perform the electrical >> energy recovery after the core is attracted. Unfortunately without a >> superconductive coil, during the whole charge/discharge cycle the coil's DC >> resistance will be wasting energy so I would need to take this under account. > >Not at all! The question is if additional energy is taken by the coil >during the attraction of the core. We can forget energy recovery for >now. My experiment proves that less current is flows through the coil when the ferrite approaches. The electrical energy recovery is extremely important here since it is the ONLY way to determine whether any of the energy has been lost. (note: current alone is not a measure of energy) >The idea has been suggested that the coil's energy does not so the work, >but that the alignment of the domains provides this energy. I don't >accept this concept yet. >> Also I cannot find an error in theory of the DNMEC. >Really? I think I may have. >> The conventional wisdom states that the coil will >> preserve its energy. And yes the momentum of the coil seems to be a part >> of this total coil energy but if a coil is discharged disproportionately >> quickly enough (compared to the charging time) the relative movement of the >> accelerated coil will be virtually zero (distance=velocity / time) creating >> a asymmetrical (nonconservative) attraction of the core. >Momentum of the coil? What experiment does this relate to? When the core is attracted by the coil, its speed increases form zero to some value. This represents an increase in mechanical momentum (mv^2) >> Also it seems like the alignment of the domains is the mechanism of >> magnetic energy storage in the ferrite, NOT its kinetic energy. ie. > >If you accelerate the core by attraction to the coil, then energy has >been transfered to the core, and used in it's acceleration. Just because the coil's energy causes the acceleration does not mean that it is transferred or used. I know that the conservation of energy principle implies that but I don't care. If this energy can be recovered later without affecting the core's momentum than the conservation principle goes out of the window. >This is quite different from energy stored by domain alignment, but it is still >energy from the coil. That is why the recovery of the stored electrical energy is so important. Because: even if the energy from the coil causes the kinetic energy increase, it DOES not mean that the energy from the coil is converted to the kinetic energy IF the 100% of the coil's electrical energy is recovered when the domains unalign. Notice that the unalignment of the domains during the coil's discharge does NOT decrease the kinetic energy of the core. >This is what I think is significant here. Yes this seems to be the crux of the matter. > >> Increasing the domain alignment causes attraction and subsequent gain of >> mechanical momentum BUT recovering the energy of the domain alignment does >> NOT decrease kinetic energy. Do you disagree with this ? > >Maybe, but I may be getting off track on a semantic issue: This is why I am repeating this in so many different words, to eliminate semantic ambiguity. >If the core is centered in the coil, is there still a gain in mechanical >momentum as the domains are aligned? I think not. I agree, when the core reaches the center of the coil there is no further mechanical momentum gain. BUT the domain's are still aligned and this represents a part of the coil's energy which can be recovered as an electric current during the coil's discharge. >If we recover energy from the domain alignment, how do we escape a >counterforce? Do you mean the mechanical counterforce on departing core ? If this is what you mean, than my answer is: there is no counterforce (back attraction) because all of the magnetic flux from the coil and domain alignment is collected in the form of electric current by the time the coil reaches the center point. This is what Stefan Hartman calls "flushing" the coil. The recovery circuit collects this energy during the "flushing" process and if there were no R, eddy, & ferrite hysteresis losses the electrical energy recovery would be 100% efficient and we would get back all of the electrical energy expended in the beginning to energize the coil WITHOUT decreasing the momentum of the moving core. >I suspect that conventional rules will apply here, and that there will >be a loss of energy somewhere in the system. Perhaps, but I can't see where. This is the reason why we are having this conversation. Apparently the energy of the coil CAUSES the core's kinetic energy increase but is NOT expended (used) on this increase. It appears that all of the coil's energy can be recovered, leaving the core's momentum gain unaffected. >This gets back to how large an effect has Ide-san documented? This has never been calculated by Osamu, but I guess it was around 10%. You can get a more precise figure by transforming some of his experimental data to get the exact result. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 11:06:46 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA05121; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:10:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:10:45 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:16:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970128121011.3acfc7be@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive (was on art bell too) Resent-Message-ID: <"_84KN1.0.vF1.Y4axo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1760 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:53:16 -0800 >Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:54:00 -0500 >From: Ben Tammetta >Reply-To: tammetta@mindspring.com >To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive (was on art bell too) >References: <3.0.32.19970127222120.009c548c@mail.localaccess.com> >Resent-Message-ID: <"voHfI3.0.PO.AqZxo"@mx1> >Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1758 >X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com >Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com > Hello all, In a away it does have to do with this group, individuals such as rife, lavholsky and I believe maybe even Tesla felt all objects are unique unto them selves and have a natural resonant frequency. Be it a battery, a rock, glass, cells, virus and even higher lifeforms. And that there is the potential of finding a disolving/distructive frquency to destroy said object!!! Or at least to find a disruptive frquency to disable it state for a period of time.(so immunine system can recover) Also it is therorized that there is the potential for a positive harmonious wave/freq. to reinforce/stabalize/strengthen or rebalance said objects. thoughts thanks mike s. >Hello, > >A guy named Wayne Green appeared as a guest on the Art Bell Talk Show >That has made such a device and even sells a kit to build one. > >I believe he made it to cure other sicknesses, and improve the immune >system, >but found out aids patients began testing negative after using his >device. > >It all sounded good to me. All of Art's progrmas are archived so you >can listen >to it over the net using a Real Audio player. > >If you have the player go to. >http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/artbell.html >and choose program from: 1/22/1997 >You may have to fast forware the program to get to the right part. > >Sorry continuing an "off the subject thread". >But if this is really true, it would have, just as profound >effect, as a free energy device would. > >ben >ben@clubelite.com > > >Epitaxy wrote: >> >> This has nothing to do with FE, but is interesting enough to be posted here. >> >> I've just seen a program on public TV channel (KBTC) about the AIDS virus >> being sensitive to electric current. They showed electron microscope >> photographs of the virus subjected to 1 hour of 2 uA at 30 V. (in nylon >> tube apx. 3mm ID, 100mm long). The protein envelope distortion was quite >> apparent. (in comparison with a control sample) >> >> The narrator claimed that exposure to electric current and subsequent >> distortion of the virus' envelope makes the virus more susceptible to the >> human immune system. This electrosensitivity was apparently noticed after >> some hospital patients using TENS units for muscle rehabilitation tested >> negative for HIV after previous positive test. If this is true this method >> probably could be applied in vivo without discomfort to the patient >> considering the low current necessary for the virus's protein enveloped >> distortion. The best path for the current flow is through major blood >> vessels in legs or arms encompassing the largest blood volume (ie. from >> ankle to ankle). One would have to reverse the polarity of the current >> once in a while to prevent skin irritation caused by electrolysis. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 11:34:00 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA12429; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:44:03 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:44:03 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970128104840.009bba14@mail.localaccess.com> X-Sender: epitaxy@mail.localaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:48:43 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Epitaxy Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive (was on art bell too) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"RK-aY.0.b13.kZaxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1761 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NOTE: this AIDS deactivation method DOES NOT rely on the frequency of electric current but on the flow of DC electrical current ALONE. It is NOT like the Rife's method. At 12:16 PM 1/28/97 -0600, you wrote: >Hello all, In a away it does have to do with this group, >individuals such as rife, lavholsky and I believe maybe even Tesla >felt all objects are unique unto them selves and have a natural >resonant frequency. >Be it a battery, a rock, glass, cells, virus and even higher lifeforms. >And that there is the potential of finding a disolving/distructive >frquency to destroy said object!!! Or at least to find a disruptive >frquency to disable it state for a period of time.(so immunine system can >recover) >Also it is therorized that there is the potential for a positive >harmonious wave/freq. to reinforce/stabalize/strengthen or rebalance >said objects. >thoughts thanks mike s. > > >>Hello, >> >>A guy named Wayne Green appeared as a guest on the Art Bell Talk Show >>That has made such a device and even sells a kit to build one. >> >>I believe he made it to cure other sicknesses, and improve the immune >>system, >>but found out aids patients began testing negative after using his >>device. >> >>It all sounded good to me. All of Art's progrmas are archived so you >>can listen >>to it over the net using a Real Audio player. >> >>If you have the player go to. >>http://ww2.audionet.com/artbell/artbell.html >>and choose program from: 1/22/1997 >>You may have to fast forware the program to get to the right part. >> >>Sorry continuing an "off the subject thread". >>But if this is really true, it would have, just as profound >>effect, as a free energy device would. >> >>ben >>ben@clubelite.com >> >> >>Epitaxy wrote: >>> >>> This has nothing to do with FE, but is interesting enough to be posted here. >>> >>> I've just seen a program on public TV channel (KBTC) about the AIDS virus >>> being sensitive to electric current. They showed electron microscope >>> photographs of the virus subjected to 1 hour of 2 uA at 30 V. (in nylon >>> tube apx. 3mm ID, 100mm long). The protein envelope distortion was quite >>> apparent. (in comparison with a control sample) >>> >>> The narrator claimed that exposure to electric current and subsequent >>> distortion of the virus' envelope makes the virus more susceptible to the >>> human immune system. This electrosensitivity was apparently noticed after >>> some hospital patients using TENS units for muscle rehabilitation tested >>> negative for HIV after previous positive test. If this is true this method >>> probably could be applied in vivo without discomfort to the patient >>> considering the low current necessary for the virus's protein enveloped >>> distortion. The best path for the current flow is through major blood >>> vessels in legs or arms encompassing the largest blood volume (ie. from >>> ankle to ankle). One would have to reverse the polarity of the current >>> once in a while to prevent skin irritation caused by electrolysis. >> >> >> > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 11:58:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA17447; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:03:29 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:03:29 -0800 Message-ID: <32EE07EC.1680@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:06:36 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: DNMEC principle] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"YMfNY3.0.QG4.zraxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1762 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Message-ID: <32EE070F.11B0@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:02:56 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Epitaxy Subject: Re: DNMEC principle References: <3.0.32.19970128095324.009ea590@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Epitaxy wrote: > > At 12:13 PM 1/28/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Epitaxy wrote: > >> > >> Actually I am not sure. To be sure I would need to perform the electrical > >> energy recovery after the core is attracted. Unfortunately without a > >> superconductive coil, during the whole charge/discharge cycle the coil's DC > >> resistance will be wasting energy so I would need to take this under > account. > > > >Not at all! The question is if additional energy is taken by the coil > >during the attraction of the core. We can forget energy recovery for > >now. > > My experiment proves that less current is taken by the coil during the > attraction. The electrical energy recovery is extremely important here > since it is the ONLY way to determine whether any of the energy has been > lost. (note: current alone is not a measure of energy) Wait a minute here! If current alone is not a measure of energy, then why does your experiment showing less current draw while the core is being attracted say anything about energy being taken from the coil to move the core? I know how to measure energy. I'm not yet ready to accept that no energy is taken from the coil to move the core. Until I better understand what actually happens here, I'm not moving forward from this point. To do so would be pure speculation. > > >The idea has been suggested that the coil's energy does not so the work, > >but that the alignment of the domains provides this energy. I don't > >accept this concept yet. > > >> Also I cannot find an error in theory of the DNMEC. > > >Really? I think I may have. > > >> The conventional wisdom states that the coil will > >> preserve its energy. And yes the momentum of the coil seems to be a part > >> of this total coil energy but if a coil is discharged disproportionately > >> quickly enough (compared to the charging time) the relative movement of the > >> accelerated coil will be virtually zero (distance=velocity / time) creating > >> a asymmetrical (nonconservative) attraction of the core. > > >Momentum of the coil? What experiment does this relate to? > > When the core is attracted by the coil, its speed increases form zero to > some value. This represents an increase in mechanical momentum (mv^2) Yes, the cores momentum. This is not an accelerated coil as you wrote. The term "the relative movement of the accelerated coil" suggested a coil in motion. I did not know if this was a referance to Ide's work or what. > > >> Also it seems like the alignment of the domains is the mechanism of > >> magnetic energy storage in the ferrite, NOT its kinetic energy. ie. > > > >If you accelerate the core by attraction to the coil, then energy has > >been transfered to the core, and used in it's acceleration. > > Just because the coil's energy causes the acceleration does not mean that > it is transferred or used. I know that the conservation of energy > principle implies that but I don't care. If this energy can be recovered > later without affecting the core's momentum than the conservation principle > goes out of the window. Wrong. If mass was acccelerated, work was done. It cannot be fully recovered in any case, and for good reason. > >This is quite different from energy stored by domain alignment, but it is > still > >energy from the coil. > > That is why the recovery of the stored electrical energy is so important. > Because: even if the energy from the coil causes the kinetic energy > increase, it DOES not mean that the energy from the coil is converted to > the kinetic energy IF the 100% of the coil's electrical energy is recovered > when the domains unalign. Notice that the unalignment of the domains > during the coil's discharge does NOT decrease the kinetic energy of the core. This you simply have to back up with facts. > >This is what I think is significant here. > > Yes this seems to be the crux of the matter. > > > > >> Increasing the domain alignment causes attraction and subsequent gain of > >> mechanical momentum BUT recovering the energy of the domain alignment does > >> NOT decrease kinetic energy. Do you disagree with this ? > > > >Maybe, but I may be getting off track on a semantic issue: > > This is why I am repeating this in so many different words, to eliminate > semantic ambiguity. > > >If the core is centered in the coil, is there still a gain in mechanical > >momentum as the domains are aligned? I think not. > > I agree, when the core reaches the center of the coil there is no further > mechanical momentum gain. BUT the domain's are still aligned and this > represents a part of the coil's energy which can be recovered as an > electric current during the coil's discharge. At this point, I disagree. > Do you mean the mechanical counterforce on departing core ? Any counterforce. LEts not forget the lessons learned from the N machine. The N machine sought over unity opertion by escaping eddy currents and all back EMF, yet even this did not bring the N machine to 100% efficiency. > If this is what you mean, than my answer is: there is no counterforce > (back attraction) because all of the magnetic flux from the coil and domain > alignment is collected in the form of electric current by the time the coil > reaches the center point. This is what Stefan Hartman calls "flushing" the > coil. The recovery circuit collects this energy during the "flushing" > process and if there were no R, eddy, & ferrite hysteresis losses the > electrical energy recovery would be 100% efficient and we would get back > all of the electrical energy expended in the beginning to energize the coil > WITHOUT decreasing the momentum of the moving core. Wrong again. There is heat produced by the domain alignment process, so you will fall short of 100% return. > >I suspect that conventional rules will apply here, and that there will > >be a loss of energy somewhere in the system. > > Perhaps, but I can't see where. This is the reason why we are having this > conversation. Agreed, and I find it to be productive. I wish Greg had not dropped the issue, but it seems he has. > Apparently the energy of the coil CAUSES the core's kinetic energy increase > but is NOT expended (used) on this increase. It appears that all of the > coil's energy can be recovered, leaving the core's momentum gain unaffected. If this were true, several devices might be expected to show this effect. > >This gets back to how large an effect has Ide-san documented? > > This has never been calculated by Osamu, but I guess it was around 10%. > You can get a more precise figure by transforming some of his experimental > data to get the exact result. So the possibility of experimental error is still a factor? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 14:13:42 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA07064; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:19:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:19:49 -0800 Message-ID: <32EE27E6.54BE@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:23:02 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MvPCN3.0.Dk1.prcxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1764 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Alexander V. Frolov wrote: > > Hello, > > Anybody know Dr. Thomas E. Bearden email address? > > Re Proceedings of conference New Ideas in Natural Science I have good news. > Process is finishing at this week. Now I have some opinion about printing > process organization here but I have not words to say for you what I have > to say about this delay Dec.96-Jan.97 in printing process. There are no > such sort words in dictionary... When last I spoke with Mr. Bearden, he did not have an email address, nor did he seek having one. He was rather concerned that any such account would draw unwelcome attention to himself, and to those who might seek contacting him. I beleive that Mr. Bearden can be reached through the Virtual Times however. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 14:48:36 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA12169; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:49:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:49:12 -0800 Message-Id: <199701282149.NAA12146@mx1.eskimo.com> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive (was on art bell too) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:52:05 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ZhF2R3.0.3-2.MHdxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1765 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: Ben Tammetta > > A guy named Wayne Green appeared as a guest on the Art Bell Talk Show > That has made such a device and even sells a kit to build one. Wayne Green didn't invent it, Bob Beck did. Green is only trying to promote it because he's in a position to do so. He runs a major ham-radio magazine. He also editorializes favorably on cold fusion and permanent magnet motors. So this *is* relevant to the list, after all :) I'm surprised he's selling kits, though. That's a good way to get in trouble. The last time I heard anything about him, he was only distributing the information, which is still legal (unless your name is Wilhelm Reich.) > I believe he made it to cure other sicknesses, and improve the immune > system, > but found out aids patients began testing negative after using his > device. I *REALLY* hope he's careful how he's promoting it! He should certainly know enough to not get caught. By the way, the information is on the Web at http://www.explorepub.com/explore/Articles/Beck/HIV_Article.html List readers may also find the other parts of Explore's web site interesting. "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 15:12:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA22632; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:33:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:33:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32EE392F.5E83@tiac.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:36:47 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive (was on art bell too) References: <199701282149.NAA12146@mx1.eskimo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"GoIVJ3.0.YX5.ywdxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1767 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Jim Shaffer, Jr. wrote: > I'm surprised he's selling kits, though. That's a good way to get in trouble. > The last time I heard anything about him, he was only distributing the > information, which is still legal (unless your name is Wilhelm Reich.) Too true! > I *REALLY* hope he's careful how he's promoting it! He should certainly know > enough to not get caught. > > By the way, the information is on the Web at > http://www.explorepub.com/explore/Articles/Beck/HIV_Article.html I've just looked at the article. Clearly he has made medical claims here, and is a prime canidate for very nasty FDA action. NEVER do this! Tell me it's just for entertainment with a nod and a wink, and everything is fine. Make a medical claim as in this site, and you have crossed the line and are asking for big problems from the government thugs. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 15:32:31 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id OAA19467; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:21:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:21:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32EE9A7B.7D10@keelynet.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:31:55 -0800 From: Jerry Organization: KeelyNet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive References: <3.0.32.19970127222120.009c548c@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l391v3.0.5m4.jldxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1766 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi! With regard to the electrocution of the HIV virus. Several years ago, Bob Beck read about this and developed a circuit that anyone could build to electrocute the blood to 'neutralize' HIV. In the true sense of a pioneer, Bob put the circuit in the public domain, releasing it to many alternative science groups and publications. Full information and the circuits are available coutesy of the EXPLORE!, the American version of Raum & Zeit. Check it out at: http://www.oxytherapy.com/forums/abe/beck/ I understand that blood so treated has been called 'immortal blood' because it once treated, it resists infection from just about any invading micro-organism. The whole thing can be built for about $50 and with off the shelf parts. -- Jerry W. Decker / jdecker@keelynet.com http://www.keelynet.com / "From an Art to a Science" Voice : (214) 324-8741 / KeelyNet BBS (214) 324-3501 KeelyNet - PO BOX 870716 - Mesquite, Republic of Texas - 75187 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 16:00:24 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA32628; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:20:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:20:19 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:25:10 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Resent-Message-ID: <"PKh_D.0.Tz7.mcexo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1768 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---snip Greg wrote, >So where did the energy come from? > >>From the magnetic field produced as the domains aligned their >individual magnetic fields. And where does the domain's magnetic >field come from? From the *spinning electrons* in the domains iron >atoms. > >Direct Nuclear Magnetic Energy Conversion. snip--- * = emphasis added I would only add to Greg's comments that _yes_ there is *something* spinning in those magnetic fields --- and that 'something' has the mechanical characteristics of a gyroscope. The postulation here is that these ultra-small mechanical entities spin at "c" and move in any given direction at "c". Moreover, that something (the Gyron) may be far smaller than the 'electron' and we may need to re-examine the mechanical characteristics of the electron itself. As Joe wrote, pg. 9 (TEMOJN, 1984): "13.A. The energy in a magnetic field is the energy which comprises the component parts of the atoms from which the energy comes. "13.B. The energy in a magnetic field is therefore literally Einstein's Equation of E=mc^2. "13.C. The energy in a magnetic field must be moving in a direction at the speed of light and must also have a gyroscopic spin at the speed of light: __ herein lies mechanical essence of E=mc^2__. "The Kinetic Energy of a moving particle is 1/2MV^2. If the particle is moving with speed V and also rotating about its axis at speed V, then the total Kinetic Energy is 1/2MV^2 (for the rotational motion [not 1/2Iw^2]) which equals MV^2. If V is equal to C, then the total Kinetic Energy is equal to MC^2. (Hypothetically, this particle is mathematically an infinitely small entity which, in a literal and mechanical sense, moves laterally and rotationally to generate a gyroscopic [spiral] helix effect.) "The literal and mechanical configuration of a magnetic field is simply a result of the summation of atom alignment within the material from which the magnetic field is generated." Best regards, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 16:00:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA32660; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:20:26 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:20:26 -0800 Message-ID: <32EE8A3F.5AEB@ipgeek.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 15:22:39 -0800 From: Albert Yang Reply-To: lithium@ipgeek.com Organization: Oriental Guild Resources X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Unidentified subject! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DFnqV.0.6-7.qcexo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1769 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: bearden@hsv.com Tom Bearden's email address. Glad to be of service. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 17:27:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA26405; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:00:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:00:48 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:58:05 -0700 (MST) From: "John R. Tooker" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970128073714.009d4474@mail.localaccess.com> Message-Id: Organization: Calgary Free-Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zErrS.0.RS6.z4gxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1770 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, Epitaxy wrote: > > > It is a device that stimulates muscle contraction by applying electrical > current. It is often used to prevent or treat muscle atrophy. It can also be used to treat chronic pain from various causes. John > > > At 08:27 AM 1/28/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>human immune system. This electrosensitivity was apparently noticed > >>after some hospital patients using TENS units for muscle rehabilitation From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 19:12:45 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA15388; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:45:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:45:28 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 18:48:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199701290248.SAA03015@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> From: rwall@ix.netcom.com (Richard Wayne Wall) Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"jEDj_3.0.Km3.6dhxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1771 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Wes wrote: snip >>RWW: Have you wound and tested any and if so what were your results? I have wound some and am currently experimenting with them. RWW From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 19:57:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA29008; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:55:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 11:55:59 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 22:35:42 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Lines: 17 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DJ4w-.0.R47.7dbxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Unidentified subject! Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1763 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello, Anybody know Dr. Thomas E. Bearden email address? Re Proceedings of conference New Ideas in Natural Science I have good news. Process is finishing at this week. Now I have some opinion about printing process organization here but I have not words to say for you what I have to say about this delay Dec.96-Jan.97 in printing process. There are no such sort words in dictionary... --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 20:08:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA26862; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:43:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:43:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199701290342.TAA26838@mx1.eskimo.com> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive (was on art bell too) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:46:00 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"g-bGu.0.aZ6.1Tixo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1772 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: Bob Shannon > > By the way, the information is on the Web at > > http://www.explorepub.com/explore/Articles/Beck/HIV_Article.html > > I've just looked at the article. Clearly he has made medical claims > here, and is a prime canidate for very nasty FDA action. It's been a while since I looked at the article, but if I remember rightly it's presented as a scientific experiment, and thus might offer him a little protection. Also, years ago I read in a major outdoorsman's magazine that it was possible to deactivate rattlesnake venom by zapping the wound with a stun gun, and I don't remember ever hearing of them getting in trouble. Of course, rattler serum isn't the money-maker that AIDS drugs are, which is more likely to invoke the wrath of the HIG. (Hoodlums In Government -- a Reichian term.) On a different note, I forgot to say in my original reply that I was glad to see such a radical approach getting TV coverage. The more people know about this, the safer everyone is and the more likely it is to achieve critical mass for acceptance if it's for real -- which I'm inclined to think it is. Also, I note in the newspaper yesterday that protease inhibitor research of the pharmaceutical kind has hit a snag in that the virus is inaccessible when embedded in certain tissue such as lymph nodes. Beck claims to have a solution for that problem with his magnetic pulses, and if true it might just be a way to sneak his whole treatment into mainstream practice for evaluation. "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 20:18:55 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA31624; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:07:34 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:07:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32EEB821.5FBF@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:08:26 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970126081403.009acefc@mail.localaccess.com> <32EDC5E8.5BCC@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"61jHf.0.2k7.4qixo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1773 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Epitaxy wrote: > > > >> Practical note: The current in the coil should never be allowed to build > > >> up to the I=E/R level. The R of the coil is a bad way to limit the > > >> current, charging time should be used instead. > > > > > >Can you expand on why? > > > > In an ideal coil (zero R, zero C, etc) the current increases with time > > WITHOUT limit. That means if we had infinite time the current would build > > up to infinite magnitude. In a realistic coil the DC resistance provides a > > limit to the maximum current according to the Ohm's law I=E/R. So with a > > given supply voltage the current in a coil is capable only reaching a > > certain limit imposed by R. After this limit is reached the coil behaves > > as a simple resistor and dissipates the electrical energy flowing through > > it at a rate of RI^2. This is undesirable because electrical energy > > dissipated in this way (heat) is unrecoverable. > > Right, after the rate if field increase drops toward zero, we reach a > point of diminishing returns from the energy used to support the field. > Understood. > > > Constant voltage regulation was used. The coil was connected to the power > > supply through a series current sensing resistor. An oscilloscope was > > hooked up to both ends of the resistor. The voltage across this current > > sensing resistor was proportional to the current flowing through the coil. > > A non-conductive ferrite core was allowed to be attracted by the coil. A > > current drop in the coil's circuit was observed. > > Interesting. Can you post any specifics of these tests? What value > series resistor was used, voltage applied, etc? > > Concider the following experiment: > > Two inductors, L1 and L2, are connected in series. L2 has a switch > connected in parallel, that is, across L2, shorting it. Assume no > mutual inducance between L1 and L2. > > We apply a fixed voltage, and current begins to flow through L1 but > around L2. L2 begins to form a field and store energy. We allow this > current to build up to the limit posed by the DC resistance (yes, and > begin wasting energy). > > As L1 builds its field, we measure the voltage across L1, and the total > current flowing. These values are integrated, and the phase angle > between current and voltage are factored in to give the total energy > stored in L1. > > At this point, the switch shorting L2 is opened. The total inductance > of the circuit has gone up 100% (assuming L1 and L2 are equal) and > additional current flows until an equal field is produced by L2. > > Again, total current is integrated, and we calculate the total energy > stored by L1 and L2, in their respective fields. > > At this point, the energy input is equal to the stored energy less any > resistive losses. The increase in inductance with a fixed voltage > applied resulted in an increase in current, and total energy used by the > circuit. > > Now we compare this with a coil who's inductance is increased by the > attraction of a magnetic core. It seems that you claim that not only > will less current flow through the coil at the core is attracted, and > that the energy of this attraction is not supplied by the coil current. > > There has been discussion of the concept that motional magnetic > induction, and induction by a time varing magnetic field are not quite > the same effects (Hooper, etc.). > > So, other than motional vs. time varient fields, why is the increase in > inductance by the approach of the coil not met with an increase in coil > current and net energy from the source of voltage, as it is in the > example given above? > > In your opinion, is this effect described in conventional theory, or are > you claiming the discovery of a new effect here? Hi Bob, The current drops as the ferrite rod approaches. That is a fact. If you doubt it, try it. Why do you waste time on this subject? The current drops! Our discussion should be around why current drops and where the energy to accelerate the rod comes from. Fact : The coils current drops as the rod approaches. Fact : The rod is accelerated toward the coil and gains speed. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 20:32:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA31670; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:07:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:07:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32EEBF60.483C@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:39:20 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: DNMEC principle References: <3.0.32.19970128100106.009eac98@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"T_XHN1.0.bk7.Eqixo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1774 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Epitaxy wrote: > > At 12:13 PM 1/28/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Epitaxy wrote: > >> > >> Actually I am not sure. To be sure I would need to perform the electrical > >> energy recovery after the core is attracted. Unfortunately without a > >> superconductive coil, during the whole charge/discharge cycle the coil's DC > >> resistance will be wasting energy so I would need to take this under > account. > > > >Not at all! The question is if additional energy is taken by the coil > >during the attraction of the core. We can forget energy recovery for > >now. > > My experiment proves that less current is flows through the coil when the > ferrite approaches. The electrical energy recovery is extremely important > here since it is the ONLY way to determine whether any of the energy has > been lost. (note: current alone is not a measure of energy) > > >The idea has been suggested that the coil's energy does not so the work, > >but that the alignment of the domains provides this energy. I don't > >accept this concept yet. > > >> Also I cannot find an error in theory of the DNMEC. > > >Really? I think I may have. > > >> The conventional wisdom states that the coil will > >> preserve its energy. And yes the momentum of the coil seems to be Where does the mass of the ferrite rod come into this? I have simulated the rod at many different distances from the coil and have found that two factors effect the coils stored energy. 1) Distance from the coil. 2) Permeability of the rod. If we generate a static model and move the rod mm by mm closer to the coil, we see total energy increasing as a greater amount of the coil's H field flows through the rod causing greater domain alignment and hence greater rod B field generation as the rod moves up its B/H curve. Try it on Qfield. You can see it happening. If we now take account of the energy used to move the rod, we find that we must take into account the rod's mass. I know of NO direct relationship between permeability and mass. Therefore the energy used to move the rod is not related to the increase in coil energy as the rod approaches. A lighter rod with the same permeability curve would be accelerated quicker than a heavier rod of the same curve, but the coil's field would be increasing to the same value at each point of approach. Now lets consider two rods with the same mass, but with different permeabilities. The rod with the higher permeability would feel a greater force of attraction at each point of the simulation due to this greater permeability and hence greater B field generation. It, therefore, would be accelerated quicker toward the coil and coil current would be lower at each simulation point. As I said before, the only two factors which seem to effect this are permeability and distance. Don't talk about it, try it on Qfield. > >> of this total coil energy but if a coil is discharged disproportionately > >> quickly enough (compared to the charging time) the relative movement of the > >> accelerated coil will be virtually zero (distance=velocity / time) creating > >> a asymmetrical (nonconservative) attraction of the core. > > >Momentum of the coil? What experiment does this relate to? > > When the core is attracted by the coil, its speed increases form zero to > some value. This represents an increase in mechanical momentum (mv^2) > > >> Also it seems like the alignment of the domains is the mechanism of > >> magnetic energy storage in the ferrite, NOT its kinetic energy. ie. > > > >If you accelerate the core by attraction to the coil, then energy has > >been transfered to the core, and used in it's acceleration. > > Just because the coil's energy causes the acceleration does not mean that > it is transferred or used. I know that the conservation of energy > principle implies that but I don't care. If this energy can be recovered > later without affecting the core's momentum than the conservation principle > goes out of the window. > > >This is quite different from energy stored by domain alignment, but it is > still > >energy from the coil. Only H field energy, VERY little. > That is why the recovery of the stored electrical energy is so important. > Because: even if the energy from the coil causes the kinetic energy > increase, it DOES not mean that the energy from the coil is converted to > the kinetic energy IF the 100% of the coil's electrical energy is recovered > when the domains unalign. Notice that the unalignment of the domains > during the coil's discharge does NOT decrease the kinetic energy of the core. > > >This is what I think is significant here. > > Yes this seems to be the crux of the matter. > > > > >> Increasing the domain alignment causes attraction and subsequent gain of > >> mechanical momentum BUT recovering the energy of the domain alignment does > >> NOT decrease kinetic energy. Do you disagree with this ? > > > >Maybe, but I may be getting off track on a semantic issue: > > This is why I am repeating this in so many different words, to eliminate > semantic ambiguity. > > >If the core is centered in the coil, is there still a gain in mechanical > >momentum as the domains are aligned? I think not. > > I agree, when the core reaches the center of the coil there is no further > mechanical momentum gain. BUT the domain's are still aligned and this > represents a part of the coil's energy which can be recovered as an > electric current during the coil's discharge. > > >If we recover energy from the domain alignment, how do we escape a > >counterforce? > > Do you mean the mechanical counterforce on departing core ? > > If this is what you mean, than my answer is: there is no counterforce > (back attraction) because all of the magnetic flux from the coil and domain > alignment is collected in the form of electric current by the time the coil > reaches the center point. This is what Stefan Hartman calls "flushing" the > coil. The recovery circuit collects this energy during the "flushing" > process and if there were no R, eddy, & ferrite hysteresis losses the > electrical energy recovery would be 100% efficient and we would get back > all of the electrical energy expended in the beginning to energize the coil > WITHOUT decreasing the momentum of the moving core. > > >I suspect that conventional rules will apply here, and that there will > >be a loss of energy somewhere in the system. > > Perhaps, but I can't see where. This is the reason why we are having this > conversation. > Apparently the energy of the coil CAUSES the core's kinetic energy increase > but is NOT expended (used) on this increase. It appears that all of the > coil's energy can be recovered, leaving the core's momentum gain unaffected. > > >This gets back to how large an effect has Ide-san documented? > > This has never been calculated by Osamu, but I guess it was around 10%. > You can get a more precise figure by transforming some of his experimental > data to get the exact result. Hi Guys, Bob, please try the rod & coil test. Watch the current drop. The do the Qfield simulations. They show where the energy increase comes from. I can send you or any other interested parties the Qfield model and data files. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 20:35:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA31745; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:08:01 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:08:01 -0800 Message-ID: <32EEC38E.23E7@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:57:10 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: DNMEC principle] References: <32EE07EC.1680@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xrK242.0.pl7.Rqixo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1775 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > Subject: Re: DNMEC principle > Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 14:02:56 +0000 > From: Bob Shannon > To: Epitaxy > References: <3.0.32.19970128095324.009ea590@mail.localaccess.com> > > Epitaxy wrote: > > > > At 12:13 PM 1/28/97 +0000, you wrote: > > >Epitaxy wrote: > > >> > > >> Actually I am not sure. To be sure I would need to perform the electrical > > >> energy recovery after the core is attracted. Unfortunately without a > > >> superconductive coil, during the whole charge/discharge cycle the coil's DC > > >> resistance will be wasting energy so I would need to take this under > > account. > > > > > >Not at all! The question is if additional energy is taken by the coil > > >during the attraction of the core. We can forget energy recovery for > > >now. > > > > My experiment proves that less current is taken by the coil during the > > attraction. The electrical energy recovery is extremely important here > > since it is the ONLY way to determine whether any of the energy has been > > lost. (note: current alone is not a measure of energy) > > Wait a minute here! If current alone is not a measure of energy, then > why does your experiment showing less current draw while the core is > being attracted say anything about energy being taken from the coil to > move the core? > > I know how to measure energy. I'm not yet ready to accept that no > energy is taken from the coil to move the core. Until I better > understand what actually happens here, I'm not moving forward from this > point. To do so would be pure speculation. > > > > > >The idea has been suggested that the coil's energy does not so the work, > > >but that the alignment of the domains provides this energy. I don't > > >accept this concept yet. > > > > >> Also I cannot find an error in theory of the DNMEC. > > > > >Really? I think I may have. > > > > >> The conventional wisdom states that the coil will > > >> preserve its energy. And yes the momentum of the coil seems to be a part > > >> of this total coil energy but if a coil is discharged disproportionately > > >> quickly enough (compared to the charging time) the relative movement of the > > >> accelerated coil will be virtually zero (distance=velocity / time) creating > > >> a asymmetrical (nonconservative) attraction of the core. > > > > >Momentum of the coil? What experiment does this relate to? > > > > When the core is attracted by the coil, its speed increases form zero to > > some value. This represents an increase in mechanical momentum (mv^2) > > Yes, the cores momentum. This is not an accelerated coil as you wrote. > The term "the relative movement of the accelerated coil" suggested a > coil in motion. I did not know if this was a referance to Ide's work or > what. > > > > > >> Also it seems like the alignment of the domains is the mechanism of > > >> magnetic energy storage in the ferrite, NOT its kinetic energy. ie. > > > > > >If you accelerate the core by attraction to the coil, then energy has > > >been transfered to the core, and used in it's acceleration. > > > > Just because the coil's energy causes the acceleration does not mean that > > it is transferred or used. I know that the conservation of energy > > principle implies that but I don't care. If this energy can be recovered > > later without affecting the core's momentum than the conservation principle > > goes out of the window. > > Wrong. If mass was acccelerated, work was done. It cannot be fully > recovered in any case, and for good reason. No one doubts that work is being done on the coil. The question is to discover from where it came? To assume it MUST come from the coil and its current is to close one's mind to other options. > > >This is quite different from energy stored by domain alignment, but it is > > still > > >energy from the coil. > > > > That is why the recovery of the stored electrical energy is so important. > > Because: even if the energy from the coil causes the kinetic energy > > increase, it DOES not mean that the energy from the coil is converted to > > the kinetic energy IF the 100% of the coil's electrical energy is recovered > > when the domains unalign. Notice that the unalignment of the domains > > during the coil's discharge does NOT decrease the kinetic energy of the core. > > This you simply have to back up with facts. > > > >This is what I think is significant here. > > > > Yes this seems to be the crux of the matter. > > > > > > > >> Increasing the domain alignment causes attraction and subsequent gain of > > >> mechanical momentum BUT recovering the energy of the domain alignment does > > >> NOT decrease kinetic energy. Do you disagree with this ? > > > > > >Maybe, but I may be getting off track on a semantic issue: > > > > This is why I am repeating this in so many different words, to eliminate > > semantic ambiguity. > > > > >If the core is centered in the coil, is there still a gain in mechanical > > >momentum as the domains are aligned? I think not. > > > > I agree, when the core reaches the center of the coil there is no further > > mechanical momentum gain. BUT the domain's are still aligned and this > > represents a part of the coil's energy which can be recovered as an > > electric current during the coil's discharge. > > At this point, I disagree. > > > Do you mean the mechanical counterforce on departing core ? > > Any counterforce. LEts not forget the lessons learned from the N > machine. The N machine sought over unity opertion by escaping eddy > currents and all back EMF, yet even this did not bring the N machine to > 100% efficiency. > > > If this is what you mean, than my answer is: there is no counterforce > > (back attraction) because all of the magnetic flux from the coil and domain > > alignment is collected in the form of electric current by the time the coil > > reaches the center point. This is what Stefan Hartman calls "flushing" the > > coil. The recovery circuit collects this energy during the "flushing" > > process and if there were no R, eddy, & ferrite hysteresis losses the > > electrical energy recovery would be 100% efficient and we would get back > > all of the electrical energy expended in the beginning to energize the coil > > WITHOUT decreasing the momentum of the moving core. > > Wrong again. There is heat produced by the domain alignment process, so > you will fall short of 100% return. Wrong. The H field used to align the domains is turned into heat in the rod. But the B field produced is 1000 times greater. If the aligning energy was equal to the B field produced, every transformer in the world would melt. > > >I suspect that conventional rules will apply here, and that there will > > >be a loss of energy somewhere in the system. Therefore Over Unity is impossible. QED. Right? > > Perhaps, but I can't see where. This is the reason why we are having this > > conversation. > > Agreed, and I find it to be productive. I wish Greg had not dropped the > issue, but it seems he has. I have not dropped out, just letting others have their say. > > Apparently the energy of the coil CAUSES the core's kinetic energy increase > > but is NOT expended (used) on this increase. It appears that all of the > > coil's energy can be recovered, leaving the core's momentum gain unaffected. > > If this were true, several devices might be expected to show this > effect. They would need to be designed with this effect fully understood and explored. Conventional design methods would have to be revised. I.E. My air gap experiments which show that very different effects occur with buried and gap locations for coils and magnets. > > >This gets back to how large an effect has Ide-san documented? > > > > This has never been calculated by Osamu, but I guess it was around 10%. > > You can get a more precise figure by transforming some of his experimental > > data to get the exact result. > > So the possibility of experimental error is still a factor? Hi All, The Osamu results agree with my air gap gifs. Notice his max flux point is outside the gap in the opposing example. Exactly what I have been saying. Also note Fig 6 showing torque in the adding and opposing examples. The motor driving torque in the opposing example is much lower, but the recovered volatge is greater. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 22:11:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA24315; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:01:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:01:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:06:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701290606.WAA26064@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"a2SrX.0.rx5.VUkxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:48 PM 1/28/97 -0800, you wrote: >Wes wrote: > >snip > >>>RWW: Have you wound and tested any and if so what were your results? > >I have wound some and am currently experimenting with them. > >RWW: I am going to. Will let you know the results. > > > > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 22:20:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA26882; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:09:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:09:37 -0800 Message-ID: <32EEE8AC.7C9C@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:35:32 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970128081820.009ceac8@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jhJwn2.0.vZ6.Vckxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Here are the results of my rod & coil simulation. The rod was moved in 9 step to end at the edge of the coil as follows: Ferrite Ferrite Ferrite Ferrite Coil Distance Pull(N) H(Am) B(T) Joules H(Am) ----------------------------------------------------------- 10 1.1888e-5 0.011259 1.4493e-5 1.8440e-9 10.093 9 1.4483e-5 0.012174 1.5672e-5 2.1725e-9 10.159 8 1.8807e-5 0.013621 1.7534e-5 2.7175e-9 9.932 7 2.2222e-5 0.015009 1.9322e-5 3.3139e-9 10.059 6 2.9904e-5 0.016731 2.1537e-5 4.1451e-9 10.150 5 3.8429e-5 0.018634 2.3988e-5 5.1853e-9 10.305 4 5.1571e-5 0.020711 2.6661e-5 6.4632e-9 10.511 3 6.8306e-5 0.023227 2.99 e-5 8.1889e-9 10.409 2 9.4725e-5 0.026157 3.3672e-5 1.0508e-8 10.781 1 1.3689e-4 0.029688 3.8217e-5 1.3690e-8 10.668 0 1.6840e-4 0.033936 4.3686e-5 1.8020e-8 10.693 I believe the jumps in the coil's H figures to be the result of not enough mesh points around the coil blocks. The coil H figure is Qfield's calc of the Am needed to produce the overall field intensity. If I vary the coil current to hold the coil's calculated Am constant, I have to REDUCE coil current to compensate for the increasing ferrite field. Exactly as my rod & coil experiment indicated. Exactly as Epitaxy's post describing this effect in a step by step manner. Hope you find the data helpful in understanding this DNMEC effect. The Qfield model & data files are available if you wish to verify this DNMEC experiment yourself. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Tue Jan 28 23:37:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA04584; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:07:18 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:07:18 -0800 Message-ID: From: Robin Gilham To: "'freenrg-l@eskimo.com'" Subject: Aids virus Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:08:07 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Encoding: 15 TEXT Resent-Message-ID: <"wDTDP1.0.U71.bSlxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1778 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >On Monday researchers from the University of Pretoria announced that they might >have found a cure for the Aids virus. Tests revealed that there drug kill the >aids virus >in a test tube and tests done on volunteers shows a dynamic reduction in the >HIV >count. The government health department immediately banned all testing until >further >investigation could be performed. Did you guys hear anything about that on your >side of the world > >Robin Gilham > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 03:55:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA13771; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 03:30:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 03:30:57 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:34:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970129063400_581431436@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Secod law violation? Resent-Message-ID: <"ckhjR3.0.5N3.mJpxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1779 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>If we know so little, how can you proove that entropy over the whole of the universe does indeed increase?>>> Name a system that does NOT great more disorder than order, you can't? We humans, no matter how ordered we are, give off way more disorder. It's true for all life. Just think of all the nice ordered food we take in and break up. >>>Also, the point was made the biology violates the second law, and it does do. This is quite seperate from the universe as a whole, which we still poorly understand at best.>>> Many this violate the second law (if nothing did, we wouldn't galaxys, stars, and planets, but they also have to give off more disorder in the long run. This is a fact. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 07:27:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA06563; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:57:04 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:57:04 -0800 Message-ID: <32EF1FB2.3FF3@tiac.net> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:00:18 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Secod law violation? References: <970129063400_581431436@emout19.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7KFps3.0.Pc1.-Ksxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1780 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>If we know so little, how can you proove that entropy over the whole of > the universe does indeed increase?>>> > > Name a system that does NOT great more disorder than order, you can't? We > humans, no matter how ordered we are, give off way more disorder. It's true > for all life. Just think of all the nice ordered food we take in and break > up. What? "...no matter how ordered we are, we give off way more disorder." Clearly how much order must be weighed against the disorder produced to say if we are negentropic or not. You are stating an opinion here, not a fact. If a microbe consumes inorganic materials and builds VERY hightly ordered biomass, and excreates crystaline magnatite, there is a significant gain order, including the excreations of the microbes! Heat is produced in this process, but not enough heat to ballance the overall increase in order. If biology was not negentropic, it would not be self ordering, and we would not have net evoloution of biological systems. We have both evoloution, and an increase in biomass. Weight this against the heat produced. Of course, not all the order of biological systems is present in their structures, but is manifest in their behaviors, like the internet. Ooops, maybe we are not negentropic after all! From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 08:20:14 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA24315; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:01:05 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:01:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:06:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199701290606.WAA26064@claim.goldrush.com> X-Sender: crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: wesly crosiar Subject: Re: Adams Motor, Bifiliar Coils, etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"a2SrX.0.rx5.VUkxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1776 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 06:48 PM 1/28/97 -0800, you wrote: >Wes wrote: > >snip > >>>RWW: Have you wound and tested any and if so what were your results? > >I have wound some and am currently experimenting with them. > >RWW: I am going to. Will let you know the results. > > > > > crosiar@GOLDRUSH.COM THANKS WES WESLEY CROSIAR PO BOX 268 SAN ANDREAS, CA. 95249 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 09:07:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA27566; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:40:12 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:40:12 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:45:04 -0600 To: newman-l@emachine.com (Newman-l) From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com, neotech@xbn.shore.net Resent-Message-ID: <"3PrxG2.0.Xk6.drtxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1781 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147 -- josephnewman@earthlink.net -- (504) 524-3063 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * PRESS CONFERENCE AND DEMONSTRATION IN ST. LOUIS DATE/TIME: Friday, February 7, 1997, 11:00AM PLACE: Holiday Inn Southwest (Grand Ballroom) 10709 Watson Road St. Louis, Missouri 63127 Hotel* Tel: (800) 682-6338 / (314) 821-6600 [*Attendees receive special discounted room price of $59, let hotel know you are with the "Joseph Newman Group"] Energy Machine Inventor Joseph Newman will present a demonstration of an electromagnetic device capable of lifting from the surface of the Earth, utilizing our planet's magnetic field. Control of this lift device is also accomplished electromagnetically. Joseph Newman states that a scaled-up version of this device will be capable of safely lifting passengers/cargo into Earth's orbit electromagnetically rather than via the use of rocket technology. To the St. Louis newsmedia who have previously addressed the subject of achieving safe travel into space and especially to the creative individuals of the SPIRIT OF ST. LOUIS X-PRIZE FOUNDATION who strive to stimulate the minds of innovative individuals to develop a practical design for space travel which will also be applicable as normal transportation for the people of our nation and the world to the next frontier for humanity: I SALUTE YOU! I salute the fact that you, as members of the X-PRIZE FOUNDATION, have committed $10 million dollars to the individual who can achieve an altitude of 65 miles above the surface of the Earth via a safe, practical design intended for mass transit into outer space. I respect you for stimulating the fulfillment of practical space travel. I warmly hope that your prize becomes an investment rather than a penalty to you -- an investment which will realize for you a phenomenal return benefit that will exceed your greatest expectations. In essence, I have developed an electromagnetic lift device which rises via an interaction with the Earth's magnetic field. This electromagnetic lift technology has been featured on the front page of the MOBILE PRESS REGISTER Newspaper in Mobile, Alabama. The development of this technology on a worldwide basis would enable our access to space free of the dangers of the present rocket systems. Quoting from LIFE Science Library, MAN & SPACE, pg. 129: ".... Space flight will emerge from its present status as a fantastically expensive stunt, and will start to make economic - and ultimately commercial - sense." "But within a single lifetime,the airplane has become the world's primary mode of long-range passenger transportation. Today, thousands fly where once Lindberg traveled alone, and there is hardly a human being on this planet who has not been affected in some way by the conquest of the air." [page 99] And a quotation from Dr. James Van Allen, discoverer of the Van Allen Belt around the Earth: "WILL THIS STORY BE REPEATED IN SPACE? THE ANALOGY SEEMS OBVIOUS, YET IT IS FALSE IN SOME RESPECTS: THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE AIRPLANE MAY BE SLIGHT COMPARED TO THAT OF SPACE TRAVEL" Just as the Wright Brothers were mechanically gifted in their pioneering efforts to invention the aeroplane, so do I believe I am mechanically able to demonstrate safe, practical space travel --- electromagnetically. Even our primitive combustion automobile will become obsolete as a result of this technology. I invite the media, the general public and especially members of the X-PRIZE FOUNDATION to attend the demonstration on Friday, February 7, 1997 in St. Louis at the Holiday Inn Hotel and see for yourselves. Joseph W. Newman This Press Conference/Demonstration will be publicized nationally on the Roger Fredinburg Radio Talk Show, Thursday evening, 8:00PM (P.S.T.) January 30, 1997. ______________________________________________________________ Joseph Newman's pioneering research in electromagnetics has been featured on National CBS Evening News, CNN/ABC/NBC News, All Things Considered (PBS), LIFE Magazine, The Tonight Show, in thousands of newspapers/magazines throughout the world and on hundreds of talk shows across the country. ______________________________________________________________ These quotations are from scientists who have endorsed Joseph Newman's work: "If the manner in which Joseph Newman conducted his experiments and the results were made known to the industrial or engineering community then, in my opinion,several companies and/or individuals possess the expertise and capabilities to construct the hardware required to fully exploit the apparent capability of his new concepts." - Dr. Robert E. Smith, Chief, Orbital and Space Environment Branch George C. Marshall Space Flight Center, NASA "You have opened an area in Astrophysics which may revolutionize the magnetic energy problems which is now the most paramount problem in future energy and space travel. I do believe with proper research funds, the results would not only be a great financial boom to your financiers, but would lead to developments that will be practical and beneficial to all mankind and develop a new step in science." - Dr. E. L. Moragne, MORAGNE RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT CO. [Dr. Moragne was an electromagnetic pioneer in the development of the first atomic bomb.] ______________________________________________________________ Note: The underlying processes of this electromagnetic lift device is based upon the same principles which apply to all of Joseph Newman's electromagnetic technology as described in his fundamental book, The Energy Machine of Joseph Newman. ______________________________________________________________ For further information, contact: Joseph W. Newman, NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS Route 1, Box 52, Lucedale, MS 39452 (601) 947-7147 -- josephnewman@earthlink.net -- (504) 524-3063 http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 10:47:47 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA16328; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:11:56 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:11:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: cougar.isg.siue.edu: wrichar owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 12:18:37 -0600 (CST) From: WARREN RICHARDS X-Sender: wrichar@cougar To: free energy list Subject: Hubbard patent Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0qvyS.0.--3.eBvxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1782 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: In the "Hubbard1.asc" file, it says that the Hubbard device "has been patented." Was the device patented, or was the patent applied for and rejected? If it was patented, then could someone please give the patent number. Warren Richards. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 11:36:02 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA27858; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:55:10 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:55:10 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32EA9A30.69E6@triode.net.au> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 21:23:26 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils Lines: 12 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"n9xDi3.0.9p6.Aqvxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1783 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Yes, I think also that coils are made by Tesla's way can be used as overunity base. I think that reason is placed in effect of self-induction. For one coil it is not useful effect but for two coils self-induction of one coil is useful for other one. Best respect for you, --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 11:49:11 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA06083; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:34:21 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:34:21 -0800 X400-Received: by /c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/; converted ( IA5-Text); Relayed; 29 Jan 1997 23:31:58 +0400 X400-Received: by mta Acipenseridae in /c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/; converted ( IA5-Text); Relayed; 29 Jan 1997 23:31:58 +0400 X400-MTS-Identifier: [/c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/; 0313432EFA5AE001-Acipenserida] Content-Identifier: 0313432EFA5AE001 Content-Return: Allowed X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 ( 22 ) Conversion: Allowed Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text Priority: normal Disclose-Recipients: Prohibited Alternate-Recipient: Allowed X400-Originator: Jose.Christian@mtlo.nasa.gov X400-Recipients: non-disclosure; Message-Id: <0313432EFA5AE001*/c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/o=mtlo/ou=msmail/s=Christian/g=Jose/i=L/@MHS> Date: 29 Jan 1997 23:31:58 +0400 From: "Christian, Jose" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Return requested) (Receipt notification requested) Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils MIME-Version: 1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"aDCbX2.0.oU1.wOwxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1784 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I would like to know whether anybody out there have read this paper and have comments on it. "Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a Resonance Circuit of Unconventional Magnetic Configuration", JOURNAL OF APPLIED PHYSICS (Volume 77, Issue 11, June 1, 1995, pages 6015-6020). Thanks... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ REPLY FROM: Christian, Jose Microsoft Mail v3.0 IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils Date: 1997-01-29 22:58 Priority: 3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yes, I think also that coils are made by Tesla's way can be used as overunity base. I think that reason is placed in effect of self-induction. For one coil it is not useful effect but for two coils self-induction of one coil is useful for other one. Best respect for you, --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 11:57:03 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id WAA26882; Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:09:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:09:37 -0800 Message-ID: <32EEE8AC.7C9C@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:35:32 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <3.0.32.19970128081820.009ceac8@mail.localaccess.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jhJwn2.0.vZ6.Vckxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1777 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hi All, Here are the results of my rod & coil simulation. The rod was moved in 9 step to end at the edge of the coil as follows: Ferrite Ferrite Ferrite Ferrite Coil Distance Pull(N) H(Am) B(T) Joules H(Am) ----------------------------------------------------------- 10 1.1888e-5 0.011259 1.4493e-5 1.8440e-9 10.093 9 1.4483e-5 0.012174 1.5672e-5 2.1725e-9 10.159 8 1.8807e-5 0.013621 1.7534e-5 2.7175e-9 9.932 7 2.2222e-5 0.015009 1.9322e-5 3.3139e-9 10.059 6 2.9904e-5 0.016731 2.1537e-5 4.1451e-9 10.150 5 3.8429e-5 0.018634 2.3988e-5 5.1853e-9 10.305 4 5.1571e-5 0.020711 2.6661e-5 6.4632e-9 10.511 3 6.8306e-5 0.023227 2.99 e-5 8.1889e-9 10.409 2 9.4725e-5 0.026157 3.3672e-5 1.0508e-8 10.781 1 1.3689e-4 0.029688 3.8217e-5 1.3690e-8 10.668 0 1.6840e-4 0.033936 4.3686e-5 1.8020e-8 10.693 I believe the jumps in the coil's H figures to be the result of not enough mesh points around the coil blocks. The coil H figure is Qfield's calc of the Am needed to produce the overall field intensity. If I vary the coil current to hold the coil's calculated Am constant, I have to REDUCE coil current to compensate for the increasing ferrite field. Exactly as my rod & coil experiment indicated. Exactly as Epitaxy's post describing this effect in a step by step manner. Hope you find the data helpful in understanding this DNMEC effect. The Qfield model & data files are available if you wish to verify this DNMEC experiment yourself. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 13:25:19 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA28988; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:11:48 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:11:48 -0800 Message-ID: <32EFBEC1.4821@plix.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:18:57 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Secod law violation? References: <970129063400_581431436@emout19.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ocrqF3.0.r47.Fqxxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1785 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>If we know so little, how can you proove that entropy over the whole of > the universe does indeed increase?>>> > > Name a system that does NOT great more disorder than order, you can't? We > humans, no matter how ordered we are, give off way more disorder. It's true > for all life. Just think of all the nice ordered food we take in and break > up. ...and turn into bone and muscle and nerve tissue. And that computer you are looking at was once a pile of metal, silicon and plastic. The house or apartment you live in was once wood, earth and metal. Throughout the evolution on mankind, man (and woman) has created order out of disorder by way of emposing intelligence upon a system. Entropy is the dissolution of order into chaos, whereas neg-entropy is the making of order out of chaos by the imposition of intelligence. Perhaps we might say that whatever DISorder mankind produces is due to the imposition of STUPIDITY :) --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 14:34:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA31360; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:23:39 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:23:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199701292123.NAA31329@mx1.eskimo.com> From: "Jim Shaffer, Jr." To: Subject: Re: Aids virus Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:26:38 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zhHQA.0.uf7.N_xxo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1786 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: > From: Robin Gilham ----- On Monday researchers from the University of Pretoria announced that they might have found a cure for the Aids virus. Tests revealed that there drug kill the aids virus in a test tube and tests done on volunteers shows a dynamic reduction in the HIV count. The government health department immediately banned all testing until further investigation could be performed. Did you guys hear anything about that on your side of the world ----- I saw it in one newspaper. Strange -- it seems you have the same people running your government as we have running ours. How else do you explain restrictions on testing drugs to treat a terminal disease? "I don't want the world -- I just want your half." --T.M.B.G. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 19:13:33 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA03310; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:54:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:54:25 -0800 Message-ID: <32F005E4.6123@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:52:28 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) References: <19970129193512125.AAA224@cruiser.tsrcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OnGZL.0.Lp.Tr0yo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1788 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: James Hartman wrote: > > Mr. Watson, > > In these experiments Could I not place a very thin sheet of ferromagnetic > material having an opposite polarity on the two sides altering these effects? Thin ferromagnetic sheets will saturate very quickly, even at low flux levels. I don't understand your question. Could you please make up a sketch. > Are you also able to show the permeability of a material to small > alternating magnetic field superimposed on a larger constant magnetic field? > That I believe might relate in future experiments. Yes Qfield can do that. > Thanks, > > ---James Hi James, Thanks for your input, sorry I couldn't be more helpful. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 19:19:28 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA03266; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:54:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 18:54:19 -0800 Message-ID: <32F002F9.2838@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:40:01 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils References: <0313432EFA5AE001*/c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/o=mtlo/ou=msmail/s=Christian/g=Jose/i=L/@MHS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aE8873.0.wo.Or0yo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1787 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Christian, Jose wrote: > > I would like to know whether anybody out there have read this paper and have > comments on it. > > "Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a > Resonance Circuit of Unconventional Magnetic Configuration", JOURNAL OF > APPLIED PHYSICS (Volume 77, Issue 11, June 1, 1995, pages 6015-6020). > > Thanks... Hi Christian, Yes I have read it. The paper has been discussed as part of the flux variations (part 2) thread. My DNMEC generator design supports the findings and in fact models the opposing examples very closely. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 20:02:58 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id TAA19620 for bilb@eskimo.com; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:57:54 -0800 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:57:54 -0800 X-Envelope-From: gsawyer@dove.net.au Wed Jan 29 19:55:05 1997 Received: from dove.mtx.net.au (root@dove.mtx.net.au [203.15.24.1]) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA19232 for ; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 19:55:02 -0800 Received: from ppp15n.mtx.net.au (ppp14n.mtx.net.au [203.15.26.114]) by dove.mtx.net.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA29923 for ; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:27:44 +1030 Message-ID: <32F1163A.3E@dove.net.au> Old-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 13:44:26 -0800 From: Glenville Sawyer Organization: Outback Communications - Lighting, Concert & Special Effects X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: When is a magnet NOT ?? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: Not on the accept list X-Envelope-To: freenrg-l Status: O X-Status: Hi there, I rarely submit much to this list - but I have a question that was thrown at me by an 8 year old - I know not the correct reply ... " O.K so if a Magnet has a South Magnetic pole at one end and a North magnetic pole at the other end ... and you break it in half you STILL have N and S poles - at what point "inside" the magnet do the Poles reverse ????? or is it that one pole is always stronger than the other" Good question ! - whats the correct answer to pass onto this enquiring mind ? -- Regards, Glenville T. Sawyer gsawyer@dove.net.au - http://www.dove.net.au/~gsawyer Outback Communications +61 885 66-3236 (Business Hrs phone calls ONLY) Concerts, Special Event Staging, Lighting & Extra Special Effects. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 20:49:18 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id UAA26563; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:29:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:29:44 -0800 Message-ID: <32F02252.6459@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:53:46 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Flux variations (part2) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------2AD3B7B2A54" Resent-Message-ID: <"OALd81.0.ST6.PE2yo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1789 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2AD3B7B2A54 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Attached are 6 Gifs of a ferrite rod approaching a coil. The coil current is held constant. I will next present a set of Gifs with the coil current varied to hold coil energy constant. If anyone would like a more detailed set of Gifs, they are available as a zip file. 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WoNlaGqWQLDzXOAWPyqELXuRPMPVamthirT4QWwRRb/1bKyijT0WZfNWPof2L8ElZGR4PFo0 EpbmLp52P6ElYrHCK2U5GEOGQ0mxjOyHM+vlcnVZSH5pUYo2X1JZGkIUkR4mgm5jEopkksoF Y5rJkwZUKp9ZKm9oJwemmu91l1EWY8VjZ3SFXhgHfraSbCehEKIWYSqhEuOzRWL4YIYjN8AC al0jMgmBlysREAA7 --------------2AD3B7B2A54-- From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Wed Jan 29 23:55:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id XAA10029; Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:18:42 -0800 Resent-Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 23:18:42 -0800 Message-ID: <32F04922.844@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:39:22 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE References: <3.0.32.19970129203247.0072d290@aa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"UWcbx1.0.cS2.Fj4yo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1790 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Michael Mandeville wrote: > > At 07:44 PM 1/29/97 -0800, you wrote: > >> > > > >I'll be glad to discuss it in private, but in this case I think > >other readers of vortex would like to hear the details as well. > >Its certainly on-topic for the group, since JN has long claimed > >to have working overunity devices. So, Bill Beatty permitting... > > > >To start the discussion, let me tell you what bothers me about JN. > > > >Top 10 List of Things Wrong With Joe Newman > > > > > >Barry Merriman > >Research Scientist, UCSD Fusion Energy Research Program > >Asst. Prof., UCLA Dept. of Math > >email: barry@math.ucla.edu homepage: http://www.math.ucla.edu/~barry > > > > > > BARRY, I don't know whether to strangle you with your mouse cord or form up > a cheering section. This Newman stuff just clutters my inboxes irritating > my goal-focused personality. On the other hand, my sense of entertainment > enjoys a feeding now and then as well. Since you are willing to spend the > time, to do a definitive no-hold barred, knock down and drag out public > shootout, it could end up being pretty educational, I guess we shouldn't > begrudge it. Please don't change the thread name because I am setting up a > filter to channel the volumes which are about to descend into a new mailbox. > > NOTE TO BILL BEATY. This is a tuff call for Vortex. It is going to get > very catty in this thread. The war has started by calling Newman, > uh-hah-uh, the Great American Crank, which on the initial round was stated > with supporting data. I think we need to challenge Barry here to serve as > an exemplar of a dispassionate examination of objective fact, let the > "crank" word pass with one demerit on his side, because even **IF** it is > true, it is still a pejorative term. Soule and Newman are not capable of > dealing non-emotionally as we well know by now. Their primary refutation > is "liar". But I am willing to put up with that stuff to let them reveal > who they really are. But other members of Vortex may tell me, Barry, and > them to shut up. Other than this, Barry, this is your show and I am going > to stay out of it. What say Vortex? > ____________________________________ > MetaSyn Media, electronic publishing > Michael Mandeville, publisher > mwm@aa.net > http://www.aa.net/~mwm Hi All, What's going on here? Are we about character assination or about individuals presenting new ideas and then logical discussion following about the ideas presented. ANYONE who uses character assination to disprove any idea, no matter how wild, is in my humble opinion lower than a snails slimy belly. You know better Michael Mandeville and as for a university professor Barry Merriman, I am very surprised. If you have a chip on your shoulder and want a fight, well, this is NOT the place. Lets STOP this right here and now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you agree with me and these two continue, I suggest we flood their in boxes with all the junk mail we can find. I repeat again, THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION!!!!!! -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 00:47:35 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA25472; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:36:59 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 00:36:59 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:41:44 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Stations Cc: vortex-l@eskimo.com Resent-Message-ID: <"jNPxZ1.0.wD6.ds5yo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1791 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: N>Energy Machine Inventor Joseph Newman will be featured on the Roger N>Fredinburg Show at 8:00PM (Pacific Time) this Thursday, January 30, 1997. N>The Roger Fredinburg Show will be carried Coast-to-Coast on 170 radio N>stations on the TALK RADIO NETWORK (AM). This is the same network which N>carries the Art Bell Show. Please consult your local radio stations in N>case (re)broadcast times may vary from city to city. Here's a list of stations I located on Rogers web site: City/State Call Freq Watts ALABAMA Foley WHEP 1310 1,000 Montgomery WACV 1170 1,000 Dothan WWNT 1450 1,000 Florence WBCF 1240 1,000 ALASKA Anchorage KENI 550 5,000 Fairbanks KFAR 660 10,000 Kodiak KJJZ 101.1 3,100 Kodiak KVOK 560 250 ARIZONA Globe KJAA 1240 1,000 Phoenix KFYI 910 5,000 Prescott KNOT 1450 Safford KATO 1000 1,000 ARKANSAS Ft. Smith KWHN 1320 5,000 Pine Bluff KOTN 1490 1,000 CALIFORNIA Bakersfield KNZR 1560 10,000 Chico KPAY 1060 10,000 Chico KNSN 1290 5,000 Merced KYOS 1480 5,000 Paso Robles KPRL 1230 1,000 Redding KQMS 1400 1,000 San Bernardino KCKC 1360 5,000 San Diego KOGO 600 5,000 Santa Barbara KQSB 990 500 Santa Maria KSMA 1240 1,000 Sonora KVML 1450 1,00 COLORADO Denver KHOW 630 5,000 Grand Junction KNZZ 1100 50,000 DELAWARE Rehoboth WGMD 92.7 3,000 FLORIDA Ft.Myers WINK 1240 1,000 Jacksonville WOKV 690 10,000 Leesburg WQBQ 1410 5,000 Sarasota WKXY 930 2,500 Sebring WWTK 730 500 St. Augustine WFOY 1240 1,000 Tampa WBDN 760 1,000 Port St. Lucie WPSL 1590 5,000 GEORGIA Dalton WDAL 1430 2,500 Jasper WYYZ 1490 1,000 IDAHO Idaho Falls KID 590 1,000 St. Maries KOFE 1240 500 ILLINOIS Herrin WJPF 1340 1,000 Mt. Vernon WMTX 940 5,000 Ottawa WCMY 1430 500 Peru WAIV 103.3 2,500 Quincy WTAD 930 1,000 Springfield WMAY 970 500 Peoria WTAZ 102.3 6,000 Cairo WKRO 1490 1,000 INDIANA Lafayette WASK 1450 1,000 Lafayette WASK 98.7 50,000 Tell City WTCJ 1230 1,000 IOWA Dubuque KDTH 1370 5,000 KANSAS Chanute KKOY 1460 1,000 Liberal KSCB 1270 500 KENTUCKY Central City WMTA 1380 500 Lexington WLXG 1300 1,000 Madisonville WTTL 1310 500 Ownesboro WOMI 1490 830 LOUISIANA Baton Rouge WJBO 1150 5,000 New Orleans WODT 1280 5,000 MASSACHUSETTS Attleboro WARA 1320 1,000 MICHIGAN Cadillac WKJF 1370 1,000 Flint WFNT 1470 1,000 Muskegon WKBZ 850 1,000 Sault St. Marie WKNW 1400 250 Traverse City WTCM 580 5,000 Petosky WJML 1110 10,000 MINNESOTA Brainerd WWWI 1270 5,000 Duluth WEBC 560 5,000 St. Cloud KNSI 1450 1,000 Bemidji KKVJ 1360 5,000 MISSISSIPPI Whynot KNKE Cable MISSOURI Cape Girardeau KZIM 960 500 Festus KJCF 1400 1,000 Jefferson City KWOS 1240 1,000 Joplin WMBH 1450 1,000 St. Louis KSD 550 5,000 Washington KLPW 1220 1,000 Farmington KREI 800 1,000 MONTANA Bozeman KMMS 1450 1,000 Great Falls KMSL 1450 1,000 Missoula KGVO 1290 5,000 NEBRASKA Fremont KHUB 1340 1,000 NEW HAMPSHIRE Manchester WGIR 610 1,000 NEW MEXICO Las Cruces KOBE 1450 1,000 Roswell KBIM 910 500 Santa Fe KVSF 1260 1,000 NEW YORK Amsterdam WCSS 1490 1,000 Elko KRJC 1340 1,000 Hudson WHUC 1230 1,000 Jamestown WJTN 1240 1,000 Utica WIBX 950 5,000 Glens Falls WWSC 1450 2,500 Olean WMNS 1360 1,000 NORTH CAROLINA Albemarle WSPC 1010 1,000 Fuquay-Varina WCRY 1460 120 Greensboro WKEW 1400 1,000 Jacksonville WLAS 910 5,000 Southern Pines WEEB 990 500 Wilmington WMFD 630 1,000 OHIO Canton WCER 900 500 Mansfield WMAN 1400 1,000 Springfield WBLY 1600 1,000 Youngstown WKBN 570 5,000 OKLAHOMA Bartlesville KWON 1400 1,400 Lawton KDDQ 96.7 1,000 McAlester KTMC 1400 1,000 OREGON Baker City KBKR 1490 1,000 Coos Bay KHSN 1230 1,000 Klamath Falls KAGO 1150 1,000 La Grande KLBM 1450 1,000 Medford KOPE 103.5 100,000 Roseburg KTBR 950 1,000 Tillamook KBMD 1590 1,000 PENNSYLVANIA Allentown WAEB 790 1,000 Beaver Falls WBVP 1230 1,000 Erie WFLP 1330 5,000 Milton WMLP 1380 1,000 Phillipsburg WPHB 105.9 5,000 Reading WEEU 850 1,000 SOUTH CAROLINA 2Burnwell WBAW 99.1 25,000 Charleston WTMA 1250 1,000 Columbia WVOC 560 5,000 Florence WJMX 970 5,000 Greenville WFBC 1330 5,000 Greenwood WLMA 1350 1,000 Myrtle Beach WRNN 94.5 6,000 S2partenburg WORD 910 1,000 Anderson WAIM 1230 1,000 SOUTH DAKOTA Sioux Falls KWSN 1230 1,000 TENNESSEE Jackson WTJS 1390 1,000 Memphis WMC 790 5,000 Waynesboro WTNR 930 500 Murfreesboro WGNS 1450 1,000 TEXAS El Paso KTSM 1380 500 Huntsville KYLR 1400 1,000 Lubbock KKAM 1340 1,000 Lufkin KRBA 1340 1,000 UTAH Blanding KUTA 790 1,000 Salt Lake City KCNR 1120 5,000 VERMONT Burlington WVMT 620 5,000 VIRGIN ISLANDS St. Thomas WSTA 1340 1,000 VIRGINIA Bristol WXBQ 980 1,000 Front Royal WFTR 1450 1,000 Richmond WRVA 1140 1,000 WASHINGTON Ellensburg KXLE 1240 1,000 Everett KRKO 1380 5,000 Moses Lake KRSN 1470 5,000 Yakima KUTI 980 500 WEST VIRGINIA Charleston WQBE 950 5,000 WISCONSIN Fond Du Lac KFIZ 1450 1,000 Kenosha WLIP 1050 250 Lacrosse WIZM 1410 5,000 Madison WTDY 1480 5,000 Stevens Point WSPO 1010 1,000 West Bend WBKV 1470 2,500 WYOMING Cheyene KRAE 1480 500 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 01:30:13 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id BAA00733; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 01:15:57 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 01:15:57 -0800 Message-ID: <32F06887.630D@plix.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 01:23:19 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE References: <3.0.32.19970129203247.0072d290@aa.net> <32F04922.844@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"QGFik1.0.KB.CR6yo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1792 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: snip > Lets STOP this right here and now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > If you agree with me and these two continue, I suggest we flood their > in boxes with all the junk mail we can find. > > I repeat again, THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION!!!!!! Since this was a public posting, I guess this begs for my opinion, so here it is. I see nothing wrong with free discussion about the Newman machines, theory, or anything else pertaining to free-energy on the list, PROVIDED: 1. The discussion is carried out in a professional manner without character assasination or reference to one's ancestry. 2. The discussion does not repeat subjects, viewpoints, proofs, etc. already gone over ad-nausium on the list. 3. Netiquette is observed with regard to not repeating entire lengthly messages, followed by a short comment by the poster. 4. The facts, theories and opinions expressed are clearly differentiated and identified, with documentation referances or data given as substantiation where possible. 5. If someone is speaking on behalf of Mr. Newman, his theory or inventions, he indicate whether he is speaking officially (with Newman's permission and knowledge and agreement) or unofficially. I think if these points are adhered to the list members will be better equipped to judge the statements being made and appropriately participate in the debate. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 03:57:57 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA20071; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:33:20 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 03:33:20 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 06:36:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970130063616_-1912049344@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Secod law violation? Resent-Message-ID: <"1wRh52.0.Xv4.-R8yo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1793 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>> The house or apartment you live in was once wood, earth and metal. Throughout the evolution on mankind, man (and woman) has created order out of disorder by way of emposing intelligence upon a system.>>> Yes, but that does not compare to the disorder we create. We just excrete far more in our life time then all of that (And let's face it, a house is not THAT much order) All the food we eat is to just KEEP the order, not really to make that much more of it. All the energy we put into things is mainly for upkeep, not for making more order. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 06:34:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA09270; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 06:20:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 06:20:00 -0800 X400-Received: by /c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/; converted ( IA5-Text); Relayed; 30 Jan 1997 18:17:38 +0400 X400-Received: by mta Acipenseridae in /c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/; converted ( IA5-Text); Relayed; 30 Jan 1997 18:17:38 +0400 X400-MTS-Identifier: [/c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/; 062C532F0AD82001-Acipenserida] Content-Identifier: 062C532F0AD82001 Content-Return: Allowed X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 ( 22 ) Conversion: Allowed Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text Priority: normal Disclose-Recipients: Prohibited Alternate-Recipient: Allowed X400-Originator: Jose.Christian@mtlo.nasa.gov X400-Recipients: non-disclosure; Message-Id: <062C532F0AD82001*/c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/o=mtlo/ou=msmail/s=Christian/g=Jose/i=L/@MHS> Date: 30 Jan 1997 18:17:38 +0400 From: "Christian, Jose" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com (Return requested) (Receipt notification requested) Subject: Questions on the Newman's Engine MIME-Version: 1.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"TxPY21.0.jG2.FuAyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1794 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello Mr. Watson and Other Interested Parties: I hope you are enjoying some sunny, warm weather in South Australia as opposed to all the cold, cloudy days here in Moscow. Anyhow, forgive me for asking this question to you and others like you who are either following or advocating for this Newman engine (and similar technologies). I'm very ignorant on this subject and I'm trying to absorb as much information as I can. I use to do research in the area of RF and advanced space power systems many years ago and obviously a technology like this called my attention immediately. I do more project management now a days and that's why I ask more dumb questions now a days. But I'm intrigued by the fact that this technology that is being advocated in this forum has not been publicized more. I wonder at what stage of development this technology is! Any technical obstacles that still need to be overcome to bring it to fruition? What about limitations, say in terms of power density (kg/kw), or power input output ratios (fossil power plants are about 1 to 800), etc... Are any of these issues been looked at to determine its competitiveness over conventional approaches? This is of course assuming that this concept has been irrefutably validated!!! I believe it was the late Carl Segan who said: "Extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence"! Which brings me back to my first question, why is it that the Airbus, Boeing, General Electric, NASA, or General Motors of this world are not jumping on this opportunity? I could consider myself a "devil's advocate" but as a former researcher I always keep my eyes and ears open to any new development in science and technology, and I like to believe that I approach things with an open mind. I consider myself to be a student of this concept, and I'm trying to learn as much about it as I can. I'm saying this because I don't want to be misconstrued, I don't mean to antagonize with anybody, however I think that my concerns are quite legitimate. That's why I would be thankful to hear from anyone with comments on this. Thanks, Joe Christian ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Christian, Jose wrote: > > I would like to know whether anybody out there have read this paper and have > comments on it. > > "Increased Voltage Phenomenon in a > Resonance Circuit of Unconventional Magnetic Configuration", JOURNAL OF > APPLIED PHYSICS (Volume 77, Issue 11, June 1, 1995, pages 6015-6020). > > Thanks... Hi Christian, Yes I have read it. The paper has been discussed as part of the flux variations (part 2) thread. My DNMEC generator design supports the findings and in fact models the opposing examples very closely. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 07:34:09 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA22097; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:09:41 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:09:41 -0800 Message-ID: <32F07420.2679@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 10:12:48 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Tesla's bifilar coils and Scalar EM? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gyQCz2.0.AP5.pcByo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1795 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There has been a good deal of speculation on the exact nature of Tesla's technology. Tesla made a number of claims which suggest that he may well have developed something just outside of what we call electromagnetic technology today. There is a single paragraph, wirtten by Tesla, that merits a great deal of attention, and may well hold the answer to just what from this technology might have taken. The following quotes are taken from his book "Experiments with Alternate Currents of High Potential and High Frequancy.", the 1904 Edition, with an appendix "On the Transmission of Electric Energy Without Wires. On page 156, we find the following: "With these stupendous possibilities in sight, with the experimental evidence before me that their realization was henceforth mearly a question of expert knowledge, patience and skill, I attacked vigorously the development of my magnifying transmitter, now, however, not so much with the original intention of producing one of great power, as with the object of learning how to construct the best one. This is, essentially, a circuit of very high self-induction and small resistance which in it's arangement, mode of excitation and action, may be said to be the diameterical opposite of a transmitting circuit typical of telegraphy by Hertzian of electromagnetic radiations." Please note that 'great power' was abandond, to persue learning how to construct the 'best' magnifying transmitter. Many modern day researchers are working with Tesla's "extra" coil (per the 1899 lab notes documentation) in an effort to produce the largest arc lenghts, and peak EM power output. The above quoted section might be taken to imply that this modern effort actually misses the point completely. "It is difficult to form an adequate idea of the marvelous power of this unique appliance, by the aid of which the the globe will be transformed. The electromagnetic radiations being reduced to an insignificant quantity, and the proper conditions of resonance maintained, the circuit acts like an immense pendulem, storing indefinately the energy of the primary exciting impulses and impressions upon the Earth and its conducting atmosphere uniform harmonic oscillations of intensities which, as actual tests have shown, may be pushed so far as to surpass those attained in the natural displays of static electricity." Note 'electromagnetic radiations' are 'reduced to an insignificant quantity', clearly there is something here that is quite different from the conventional Tesla coil. So how can electromagnetic radiations be "reduced to an insignificant quantity", and still have the "...proper conditions of resonance maintained..."? Perhaps Tesla's work with bifilar coils may provide some insights here? Today we recognise the bifilar coil as a device which does indeed reduce EM emissions to a very high degree. A well constructed bifilar coil has nearly no external field what so ever. (well less than half that of a conventional coil) Note also the phrase "...the circuit acts like an immense pendulem, storing indefinately the energy of the primary exciting impulses..." Without an external field, we bypass many problems associated with high voltage breakdown, the phenomena that limits all Tesla coils power levels. It is tempting to think that Tesla may have been describing a system where the electromagnetic emissions were significantly reduced due to destructive interference, as is the case with a bifilar coil with opposed currents. Clearly such a system could be "said to be the diameterical opposite of a transmitting circuit typical of telegraphy by Hertzian of electromagnetic radiations.", as Tesla describes. In the next paragraph, we find more evidence for this interpretation of Tesla's technology: "Simultaneously with these endevors, the means of individualization and isolation were gradually improved. Great importance was attached to this, for it was found that simple tuning was not sufficient to meet the vigorous practical requierments. The fundemental idea of employing a number of distinctive elements, co-operatively associated, for the purpose of isolating energy transmitted, I trace directly to my perusal of Spencer's clear and suggestive exposition of the human nerve mechanisim. The influence of this principle on the transmission of intellegence, and electrical energy in general, cannot be estimated, for the art is still in the embryonic stage; but many thousands of simultaneous telegraphic and telephonic messages, through one single conducting channel, natural ot artificial, and without serious mutual interference, are certainly practicable, while millions are possible." Many modern researchers who have worked with bifilar coils, or other methods of generating 'scalar waves' have learned that indeed "simple tuning" will not do. Electromagnetic potentials seek any imperfection in an effort to express themselves as EM radiation. Redution of EM leakage to 'insignificant qantities' is not always easy to acheive in practice. Also, the technology used to transmit multiple signals over a signel channel without significant mutual interferance is well established today. This is frequancy division multiplexing. A through review of Tesla's works show that spark gaps were not universaly employed to drive his coils and magnifying transmitters. Often a number of alternators were driven at differing speeds, so the primary current had a complex spectral content, as is the case in frequancy division multiplexing. Again, modern scalar EM researchers often find that the substructure of the scalar wave or potential is very significant. This substructure is the result of the spectral content of the EM currents before destructive interference. Frequancy based encoding is also the mechanisim prefered by the human nervous system, and plays a major role in how the brain processes data. It is interesting to speculate on the nature of the distinction Tesla makes between the "transmission of intellegence, and electrical energy in general". Beck and others have documented that scalars are something near 20 times more effective at entraining the actions of cells than electromagnetic signals are, and that shese signals may have a profound effect on human perception. More speculative works implicate scalars in parapsychological phenomena including remote viewing, precognition, and other 'psychic' processes. This makes me wonder just what Tesla's thoughts were during his "perusal of Spencer's clear and suggestive exposition of the human nerve mechanisim". If Tesla sought the reduction of EM radiations to an insignificant quantity, then most modern researchers appear to be missing the hidden truth behind the magnifying transmitter. His transmission of energy without wires appears to go far beyond simple EM radiation and induction. Clearly Tesla's more dramatic claims cannot be supported by the electromagnetic action of Tesla coils alone. I find that there is evidence that something more was envolved than conventional electromagnetics. Something "diametrically opposite" in fact. I strognyl urge anyone interested in Tesla's work, or scalar technology to find a copy of the book referanced here, and carefully study the appendix. In all the writtings of Tesla that I have read, this single work sheds more light than any other in my opinion. And here we thought AC was cool! Tesla appears to have gone far beyond AC, and vector electromagnetic in general. Now dig out those Tesla bifilar coil patents, and take a long and hard look at what is there. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 08:03:40 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA29040; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:37:58 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:37:58 -0800 Message-ID: <3247D51B.4B23@ats.com.au> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:33:31 +1000 From: Max Rebo Reply-To: id4@ats.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Questions on the Newman's Engine References: <062C532F0AD82001*/c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/o=mtlo/ou=msmail/s=Christian/g=Jose/i=L/@MHS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"kBSIb1.0.N57.A1Cyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1796 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Christian, Jose wrote: > > Which brings me back to my first question, why is it that the Airbus, > Boeing, General Electric, NASA, or General Motors of this world are not > jumping on this opportunity? > The simple answer is, because the aforementioned companies all have a vested interest in perpetuating the status quo. They all make far too much money out of conventional energy systems to just throw it away. In fact, some (particularly government) are prepared to, and do, make every effort to protect their interests, even going to the lengths of buying an invention and then shelving it, or discrediting the inventor, or any number of other supression methods. I submit the case of Pons and Fleischman as a case in point. There are hundreds of others. -- Be seeing you ... =8^) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ BAMBOO SOFTWARE PRODUCTIONS, INC. "We love playing games, but not as much as making 'em!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew Etherington (aka Max Rebo) Senior Vice President and Head Programmer [ id4@ats.com.au ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Cynic? Ah yes ... 'cynic' is what an idealist calls a realist" --- Sir Humphrey Appleby ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 08:21:48 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id HAA00018; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:49:35 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 07:49:35 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:54:45 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970130094837.3cb7ee6c@pop.mymail.net> X-Sender: sunbrite@pop.mymail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Michael C Slivinski Subject: Re: Tesla's bifilar coils and Scalar EM? Resent-Message-ID: <"5m7ve3.0.S_7.3CCyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1797 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Hello All, just a quick comment here, if the information below is true, there is a posibility of reducing the problem of people having EMR or Elector magnetic radiation illness or symdrome that Dr Beck writes of. Of Course this new Tesla area might have it's own disagreeable affect on the human anatomy. Just thoughts. Thanks Mike SlIVINSKI At 10:12 AM 1/30/97 +0000, you wrote: >There has been a good deal of speculation on the exact nature of Tesla's >technology. Tesla made a number of claims which suggest that he may >well have developed something just outside of what we call >electromagnetic technology today. > >There is a single paragraph, wirtten by Tesla, that merits a great deal >of attention, and may well hold the answer to just what from this >technology might have taken. > >The following quotes are taken from his book "Experiments with Alternate >Currents of High Potential and High Frequancy.", the 1904 Edition, with >an appendix "On the Transmission of Electric Energy Without Wires. > >On page 156, we find the following: > >"With these stupendous possibilities in sight, with the experimental >evidence before me that their realization was henceforth mearly a >question of expert knowledge, patience and skill, I attacked vigorously >the development of my magnifying transmitter, now, however, not so much >with the original intention of producing one of great power, as with the >object of learning how to construct the best one. This is, essentially, >a circuit of very high self-induction and small resistance which in it's >arangement, mode of excitation and action, may be said to be the >diameterical opposite of a transmitting circuit typical of telegraphy by >Hertzian of electromagnetic radiations." > >Please note that 'great power' was abandond, to persue learning how to >construct the 'best' magnifying transmitter. Many modern day >researchers are working with Tesla's "extra" coil (per the 1899 lab >notes documentation) in an effort to produce the largest arc lenghts, >and peak EM power output. > >The above quoted section might be taken to imply that this modern effort >actually misses the point completely. > >"It is difficult to form an adequate idea of the marvelous power of this >unique appliance, by the aid of which the the globe will be transformed. >The electromagnetic radiations being reduced to an insignificant >quantity, and the proper conditions of resonance maintained, the circuit >acts like an immense pendulem, storing indefinately the energy of the >primary exciting impulses and impressions upon the Earth and its >conducting atmosphere uniform harmonic oscillations of intensities >which, as actual tests have shown, may be pushed so far as to surpass >those attained in the natural displays of static electricity." > >Note 'electromagnetic radiations' are 'reduced to an insignificant >quantity', clearly there is something here that is quite different from >the conventional Tesla coil. > >So how can electromagnetic radiations be "reduced to an insignificant >quantity", and still have the "...proper conditions of resonance >maintained..."? Perhaps Tesla's work with bifilar coils may provide >some insights here? > >Today we recognise the bifilar coil as a device which does indeed reduce >EM emissions to a very high degree. A well constructed bifilar coil has >nearly no external field what so ever. (well less than half that of a >conventional coil) > >Note also the phrase "...the circuit acts like an immense pendulem, >storing indefinately the energy of the primary exciting impulses..." > >Without an external field, we bypass many problems associated with high >voltage breakdown, the phenomena that limits all Tesla coils power >levels. > >It is tempting to think that Tesla may have been describing a system >where the electromagnetic emissions were significantly reduced due to >destructive interference, as is the case with a bifilar coil with >opposed currents. Clearly such a system could be "said to be the >diameterical opposite of a transmitting circuit typical of telegraphy by >Hertzian of electromagnetic radiations.", as Tesla describes. > >In the next paragraph, we find more evidence for this interpretation of >Tesla's technology: > >"Simultaneously with these endevors, the means of individualization and >isolation were gradually improved. Great importance was attached to >this, for it was found that simple tuning was not sufficient to meet the >vigorous practical requierments. The fundemental idea of employing a >number of distinctive elements, co-operatively associated, for the >purpose of isolating energy transmitted, I trace directly to my perusal >of Spencer's clear and suggestive exposition of the human nerve >mechanisim. The influence of this principle on the transmission of >intellegence, and electrical energy in general, cannot be estimated, for >the art is still in the embryonic stage; but many thousands of >simultaneous telegraphic and telephonic messages, through one single >conducting channel, natural ot artificial, and without serious mutual >interference, are certainly practicable, while millions are possible." > >Many modern researchers who have worked with bifilar coils, or other >methods of generating 'scalar waves' have learned that indeed "simple >tuning" will not do. Electromagnetic potentials seek any imperfection >in an effort to express themselves as EM radiation. Redution of EM >leakage to 'insignificant qantities' is not always easy to acheive in >practice. > >Also, the technology used to transmit multiple signals over a signel >channel without significant mutual interferance is well established >today. This is frequancy division multiplexing. > >A through review of Tesla's works show that spark gaps were not >universaly employed to drive his coils and magnifying transmitters. >Often a number of alternators were driven at differing speeds, so the >primary current had a complex spectral content, as is the case in >frequancy division multiplexing. > >Again, modern scalar EM researchers often find that the substructure of >the scalar wave or potential is very significant. This substructure is >the result of the spectral content of the EM currents before destructive >interference. > >Frequancy based encoding is also the mechanisim prefered by the human >nervous system, and plays a major role in how the brain processes data. >It is interesting to speculate on the nature of the distinction Tesla >makes between the "transmission of intellegence, and electrical energy >in general". > >Beck and others have documented that scalars are something near 20 times >more effective at entraining the actions of cells than electromagnetic >signals are, and that shese signals may have a profound effect on human >perception. > >More speculative works implicate scalars in parapsychological phenomena >including remote viewing, precognition, and other 'psychic' processes. > >This makes me wonder just what Tesla's thoughts were during his "perusal >of Spencer's clear and suggestive exposition of the human nerve >mechanisim". > >If Tesla sought the reduction of EM radiations to an insignificant >quantity, then most modern researchers appear to be missing the hidden >truth behind the magnifying transmitter. His transmission of energy >without wires appears to go far beyond simple EM radiation and >induction. Clearly Tesla's more dramatic claims cannot be supported by >the electromagnetic action of Tesla coils alone. I find that there is >evidence that something more was envolved than conventional >electromagnetics. Something "diametrically opposite" in fact. > >I strognyl urge anyone interested in Tesla's work, or scalar technology >to find a copy of the book referanced here, and carefully study the >appendix. In all the writtings of Tesla that I have read, this single >work sheds more light than any other in my opinion. > >And here we thought AC was cool! Tesla appears to have gone far beyond >AC, and vector electromagnetic in general. > >Now dig out those Tesla bifilar coil patents, and take a long and hard >look at what is there. > > > From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 09:22:25 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA18277; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:02:25 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:02:25 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:07:23 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Re: Questions on the Newman's Engine Resent-Message-ID: <"4_cLG3.0.UT4.VGDyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1799 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Joe Christian wrote: >Hello Mr. Watson and Other Interested Parties: > >I hope you are enjoying some sunny, warm weather in South Australia as >opposed to all the cold, cloudy days here in Moscow. snip--- > >But I'm intrigued by the fact that this technology that is being advocated >in this forum has not been publicized more. I wonder at what stage of >development this technology is! Any technical obstacles that still need to >be overcome to bring it to fruition? What about limitations, say in terms >of power density (kg/kw), or power input output ratios (fossil power plants >are about 1 to 800), etc... Are any of these issues been looked at to >determine its competitiveness over conventional approaches? This is >of course assuming that this concept has been irrefutably validated!!! >I believe it was the late Carl Segan who said: "Extra-ordinary claims require >extra-ordinary evidence"! Dear Joe, So as to minimize the list traffic, I'll privately forward information which may be of assistance to you. > >Which brings me back to my first question, why is it that the Airbus, >Boeing, General Electric, NASA, or General Motors of this world are not >jumping on this opportunity? Years ago, a number of Fortune 500 corporations were approached -- and if memory serves me right, this included GE, GM, and also Chrysler Motors... the response was always the same, "we are interested -- please contact us again when you have received patent protection for your technology." As for NASA, we did receive the support and endorsement of certain individuals, notably Dr. Robert E. Smith, who at the time was the Chief, Orbital and Space Environment Branch of NASA. But despite his best efforts, his superiors would not pursue this technology. Why? That's a good question. Sometimes vested interests are either more interested in the status quo, or they simply do not have the ability/vision to seek solutions outside their paradigm. Why was the aeroplane invented by a couple of Ohio bicycle mechanics instead of by Professor Samuel Langley --- who had the endorsement of the Smithsonian Institute and the financial support of major corporate players.... Best regards, Evan Soule' Director of Information NEWMAN ENERGY PRODUCTS josephnewman@earthlink.net (504) 524-3063 P.O. Box 57684, New Orleans, LA 70157-7684 Websites: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6087 http://www.infochase.com/us/master/index.html http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/index.html From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 09:26:07 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id IAA12650; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:40:24 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:40:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199701301647.LAA09726@w3.bluegrass.net> From: "Sam Gordon" To: Subject: Re: Newman and Testatika principles=equals ! Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:44:30 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"l9WaG2.0.U53.txCyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1798 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: ---------- From: Stefan Hartmann To: newman-l@emachine.com Cc: freenrg-l@eskimo.com; epitaxy@localaccess.com; ralph.hartwell@emachine.com; josephnewman@earthlink.net; bauer.d@krypta.aball.de Subject: Newman and Testatika principles=equals ! Date: Friday, January 17, 1997 10:08 AM Hi, I bet, the Newman machine principle I have described yeasterday is the same principle as the Swiss Methernitha Testatika principle, but there the principle is used with electrostatics and not magnetics. Have again a look at it in my overunity MPEG movies site: http://www.overunity.de/movies There are now also the Testatika MPEG movies again ! So what in Newman´s case the Current and the Inductance L is, is in the Testatika case the Voltage V and the Capacitance C. So the main principle in the Testatika Machine is, to change the capacitance over time and get FREE Attraction of the capacitor plates and thus reduced electrical input ! So as it is seems that with Newman machines we have always a high ohmic resistance inside the coils which makes it difficult to get the energy back from the coil and not to waste it as heat, it seems to be easier to build it as a Testatika machine where there are not so many losses ! The main question is now: How do I get a capacitor, which can change over time from say: 500 mikro Farad to 10000 mikro Farad ? Is there any possibility to build such a "dynamic" capacitor other than using different capacitor plate distances ? How about controlling the capacitance of a cap without mechanical plate dimension, but via an electrostatic or magnetic field to alter the dielectricum inside a capacitor ? Has something like this already be invented ? If yes, I could think of a totally static "nonmoving" overunity generator ! Please let me know your comments ! Thanks ! Regards, Stefan. -- Hartmann Multimedia Service, Dipl. Ing. Stefan Hartmann Keplerstr. 11 B, 10589 Berlin, Germany NEUE Nummern : Tel: ++ 4930-345 00 497 FAX: ++ 4930-345 00 498 email: harti@harti.de harti@bbtt.de Web site: http://www.harti.de Webmaster of: http://www.detours.de Have a look at the future: http://www.overunity.de My favourite ladies on the WEB: http://www.nylon-fetish.com ---------- A while back I think we had a discussion about barium titanite has a changing K value at differing voltages would this do the trick if we used it as the dielectric. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 11:30:52 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA02201; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:02:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:02:47 -0800 Message-ID: <32F0AAB3.66F5@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:05:39 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Secod law violation? YOU BET! References: <970130063616_-1912049344@emout17.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bqpnE.0.EY.J1Fyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1800 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>> The house or apartment you live in was once wood, earth and metal. > Throughout the evolution on mankind, man (and woman) has created order out of > disorder by way of emposing intelligence upon a system.>>> > > Yes, but that does not compare to the disorder we create. We just excrete far > more in our life time then all of that (And let's face it, a house is not > THAT much order) All the food we eat is to just KEEP the order, not really to > make that much more of it. All the energy we put into things is mainly for > upkeep, not for making more order. > -Adam Grossman Ok, how do you calculate the entropy we produce to know that it exceeds the order? We do excrete, but this is not clearly disorder only. Also note that what is excreated remains biomass, and is consumed by other organisims. This interplay, the food chain, is highly ordered, and self organizing. This suggests that it is also negentropic. All the food we eat is not only to maintain order. We eat food to provide energy, part of which we use to form thoughts. The formation of thougts is clearly negentropic. We record these thoughts in such a way as to collect and preserve them, so there is a net gain in order here also. Order is not restricted to our DNA, nor to our physical bodies structure, but is present in our behaviors, the structures we create, our thoughts and writtings, and even in the elecromagnetic waves we send off into space. There is no metric for order, nor for disorder. This being the case, we are both stateing our opinions on this matter. Until such time that we have the ability to apply some metric to all forms of order (and disorder) this question may not be fully resolved. We do however know that the second law may be violated under specific conditions wher self organizational behavior is permitted. In these supercritical conditions, self organizational behavior may not have any clear resultant increase in entropy. Case in point: Cellular automata. We can run a computer program that implements an automata. The actions of this automata may demonstrate self organizational behavior, but not produce any more heat in the computers circuitry than that same automata with different starting conditions (data within the array) that do not exhibit self organizational behavior. Clearly in such a case, we have a gain in order (via self organizational behavior) without any clear increase in entropy. Remember that in an automata such as Conway's Life, the workload of the processor implementing the automata is not (or need not be) related to the complexity of the processing within that array! The processor has exactly the same work load if the array is, or is not exhibiting self organizational behavior. And so, there is your violation of the second law, without any subsequent increase in disorder, unless you assume that heat is produced non-locally by running such simulations. An additional note: The second law need not apply to Biology at all! Biology is an open system, and thereby exempt from thermodynamics. To prove otherwise demands that amny unanswered questions of comology be resolved first. So, we can find some non-local entropy production cuased only when automata exhibit self organizational behavior, and start answering some rather tricky cosmological questions before we can declare with finality (as fact) that the second law has not been violated, or is inapplicable to some phenomena. Of course, these are left as an exercise for the reader! ;-) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 12:12:34 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA15782; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:53:44 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:53:44 -0800 Message-ID: <32F0B6A5.56E2@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:56:37 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com CC: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE References: <3.0.32.19970129203247.0072d290@aa.net> <32F04922.844@mail.enternet.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"aBC931.0.8s3._mFyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1802 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Greg Watson wrote: > Hi All, > > What's going on here? Are we about character assination or about > individuals presenting new ideas and then logical discussion > following about the ideas presented. > > ANYONE who uses character assination to disprove any idea, no matter > how wild, is in my humble opinion lower than a snails slimy belly. I think first honors here must go to the Newman camp. Joe Newman's reaction to an honest and open inquiry on his two coil experiment was greeted with just such a reaction. > You know better Michael Mandeville and as for a university > professor Barry Merriman, I am very surprised. If you have a chip > on your shoulder and want a fight, well, this is NOT the place. > > Lets STOP this right here and now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > If you agree with me and these two continue, I suggest we flood their > in boxes with all the junk mail we can find. > > I repeat again, THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR THIS TYPE OF DISCUSSION!!!!!! Respectfully, I must disagree with Mr. Watson. The free enrgy field has been host to more outright fraud than a great many others and this situation impacts all in the field. It is not easy to obtain funding for valid research in this area due to the near total lack of respect the field as a whole engenders. This lack of respect is due to fraud, a lack of peer review, and shoddy science. Unless we police ourselves, we will not earn professional respect. If Mr. Newman's claims can be backed up, what has he to fear from this type of discussion? It's free publicity, and he stands to gain another true beleiver who has the background to express the operation of Mr. Newman's machine to other orthodox scientists. If this is not the place, what then is? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 12:27:16 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA11634; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:37:49 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 11:37:49 -0800 Message-ID: <32F0B2E3.3EC3@tiac.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:40:35 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Questions on the Newman's Engine References: <062C532F0AD82001*/c=ru/admd=telemail/prmd=nasa/o=mtlo/ou=msmail/s=Christian/g=Jose/i=L/@MHS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"W--bT2.0.Tr2.5YFyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1801 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Christian, Jose wrote: > > Hello Mr. Watson and Other Interested Parties: > Which brings me back to my first question, why is it that the Airbus, > Boeing, General Electric, NASA, or General Motors of this world are not > jumping on this opportunity? It is unclear that this is the case. There is a lot of back room work being done by many companies on any number of areas. Who can say they are not working in any given area? As far as conclusive proof of Newman's device, Newman supporters will claim that it has been proven, while others have issues with the testing methods and results which have not yet been addressed in a satisfactory (to those who raised the objections) manner. I cannot see how this situation could be described as being conclusive proof for or against Mr. Newman's claims. There does appear to be specific points that Mr. Newman has not addressed to date, in my opinion. From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 13:32:56 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA03051; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:52:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 12:52:37 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 15:56:28 -0600 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: josephnewman@earthlink.net (Evan Soule) Subject: Audionet Resent-Message-ID: <"e1-E32.0.Ql.GeGyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1803 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: I've not been able to verify the following, but I wanted to pass it along just in case --- >Evan Soule wrote: > N>Energy Machine Inventor Joseph Newman will be featured on the Roger > N>Fredinburg Show at 8:00PM (Pacific Time) this Thursday, January 30, 1997. > > N>The Roger Fredinburg Show will be carried Coast-to-Coast on 170 radio > N>stations on the TALK RADIO NETWORK (AM). This is the same network which > N>carries the Art Bell Show. Please consult your local radio stations in > N>case (re)broadcast times may vary from city to city. > > Here's a list of stations I located on Rogers web site: > > City/State Call Freq Watts > > ALABAMA > Foley WHEP 1310 1,000 > Montgomery WACV 1170 1,000 >snip---- > >I believe the show is also available via the following link, same >time... >AUDIONET is needed!! >FYI the 550 station in St. Louis no longer carries the show!! > >http://www.audionet.com/radio/special.ram > >Thomas Johnston From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 17:08:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id QAA09705; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 16:49:19 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 16:49:19 -0800 Message-ID: <32F1433D.18DE@plix.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 16:56:29 -0800 From: redorman@plix.com (Dorman, Robert ) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newman and Testatika principles=equals ! References: <199701301647.LAA09726@w3.bluegrass.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"fpVPx2.0.2N2.B6Kyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1804 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Sam Gordon wrote: snip > The main question is now: > > How do I get a capacitor, which can change over time from > say: 500 mikro Farad to 10000 mikro Farad ? > > Is there any possibility to build such a "dynamic" capacitor > other than using different capacitor plate distances ? > > How about controlling the capacitance of a cap without > mechanical plate dimension, but via an electrostatic or magnetic > field to alter the dielectricum inside a capacitor ? > > Has something like this already be invented ? > > If yes, I could think of a totally static "nonmoving" overunity > generator ! I seem to recall from my Network Analysis and Synthesis course in college that there is something called a gyrator that electronically "produces" or magnifies inductances or capacitances (often to very high values). It's been so many years that I don't recall the details of how they are made; something about an operational amplifier in or with a feedback loop, I believe. There are also capacitors (small values--sorry) whose capacitance changes with applied voltage. One might use something like this in an FM modulator circuit. --Bob Dorman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 18:08:44 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA24771; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:55:47 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 17:55:47 -0800 From: AdamGrosmn@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 20:57:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <970130175331_647943154@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Secod law violation? Resent-Message-ID: <"mSBYe3.0.d26.N4Lyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1805 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>>Fine, prove it to be so! Please let me know what you think of my recent post over freenrg-l on this subject, which outlines yet another clear violation of the second law.>>> You don't understand! The second law CAN be broken locally....but entropy must increase globally. Just take our bodies for example. This is a clear violation of the the second law until you start to think: All the food we take in and all the air and other energy sources is to just maintain that order in our bodies....not to make new order. Now compare this to the disorder we create in doing this...all the waste we give off, all the heat. It is MUCH more disorder then order. Now think of a house. It is ordered (Al least somewhat) but think of all the energy that had to go into it. THe chopping down od trees (There was gas in bulldozers that was burnt) is disorder as it the means or chopping them down. All the materials have been created with a big release of disorder. You people don't seem to understand what is going on. YOu think: Oh! THe human body is order! THe Second Law is wrong!! But no, there has been a lot more disoerder and energy going into the making of that order. -Adam Grossman From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Thu Jan 30 21:50:04 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id VAA13440; Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:25:37 -0800 Resent-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:25:37 -0800 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com References: <32F1433D.18DE@plix.com> Message-Id: Organization: Private person From: "Alexander V. Frolov" Date: Fri, 31 Jan 97 08:25:33 +0300 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v1.36h] Subject: Re: Newman and Testatika principles=equals ! Lines: 20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zQg1L1.0.uH3.F9Oyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1806 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: There are special type capacitors are made in Russia only. It is research product by Mrs. Tatiana Verbitskaya, Institute for Capacitors, St.-Petersburg, Russia. I worked with her caps some time ago. It can change capacitance in very big band, but we need a grant to continue the work. Also special aspect: it was made in 1960th, now she is old woman. Idea in general is: capacity must be decreasing when capacitor is charged and capacity must be increasing when it is discharged. So, in this process cap take small input and made more power output by means of transformation of its own heat energy. Who have money to make this work? --- Alexander V. Frolov, P.O.Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024 Russia Tel:7-812-2747877 From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 31 00:57:08 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id AAA16816; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:32:16 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 00:32:16 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 20:05:04 +1100 Message-Id: <199701310905.UAA26770@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re:Electrets are it ! Resent-Message-ID: <"OWcza3.0.g64.EuQyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1807 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: >>For those that are interested in Making an Experimental Electret Two or threee years I got a informative 10 page photo copy of an article how to make an electret Other materials having electret charging and supply ability are bees wax a number of vegetable waxes shellacs,sugar has it,as well as lacquers and ICE, There was work carried out using teflon,nylon,neoprene but I don't know what happened with those tests The source was David French P.O Box 2010-DFR Sparks,NV 89432 USA > >Making an Experimental Electret then his Cat number was DRROO4 and cost then $8.25 plus $2.50 shipping and handling> >I hope this is of help >Geoff Egel email at egel@main.murray.net.au Web Page http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel/ From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 31 04:23:50 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id EAA11510; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 04:00:28 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 04:00:28 -0800 Message-ID: <32F1D772.1449@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 21:58:50 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com, vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Analysis of Newman's ELECTROMAGNETIC AIR/SPACE VEHICLE References: <32F05D52.237C228A@math.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SIRDn3.0.mp2.QxTyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1809 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Barry Merriman wrote: > > As for JN toy demo: it definitely _does not_ lift > itself via the magnetic field of the earth. It certainly > can rotate, just as does a compass needle. But as noted, > the lift force will produce motions roughly 10^8 times > slower than the rotational ones. > Hi Barry, Glad to see some real data. Thanks. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Newman supporter, but equally I am not a Newman doubter. What I do, however is to listen to new ideas and try to understand the basis of what is being proposed. I have not had long to think about the lift device, but can already see several interesting things. Suppose we use a low current to rotate the balloon into alignment with the earth's magnetic field. As power is applied, the balloon will like all magnets be rotated to align its poles earthS NballoonS Nearth. As the balloon aligns with the earth's field it will experience a downward force due to the small difference in the field strength from the top to the bottom of the balloon. The top of the coil will be attracted upward less than the bottom will be attracted downward. No magnetic lift here. But what happens if we now reverse the current flow and increase it say 1000 times? I suggest that as the coil is now aligned with the earth's field, and that the config now is earthS SballoonN Nearth, the balloon will be repelled away from the earth. Of curse it will also start to rotate to align its new pole with the earth. But maybe we then switch the current to aligning when say it is 10 degrees off axis. I guess it would sort of wobble as it rose. Care to do an analysis of this config? Current 1 to align, current -1000 to lift? I have. Its very interesting. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 31 04:24:01 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id DAA11372; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 03:59:45 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 03:59:45 -0800 Message-ID: <32F1DA46.9FE@mail.enternet.com.au> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 22:10:54 +1030 From: Greg Watson Reply-To: gwatson@enternet.com.au Organization: Greg Watson Consulting X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com, newman-l@emachine.com, freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE References: <3.0.32.19970129203247.0072d290@aa.net> <32F04922.844@mail.enternet.com.au> <32F0B6A5.56E2@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DJ7Ie.0.Xn2.mwTyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1808 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Bob Shannon wrote: > > If Mr. Newman's claims can be backed up, what has he to fear from this > type of discussion? It's free publicity, and he stands to gain another > true believer who has the background to express the operation of Mr. > Newman's machine to other orthodox scientists. > > If this is not the place, what then is? Hi Bob, What I said was that discussions involving character assination of idea presenters have no palace in any discussion of ideas. Full Stop. The ideas themselves. They are fair game for one and all. -- Best Regards, Greg Watson, Greg Watson Consulting, Adelaide, South Australia, gwatson@enternet.com.au From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 31 07:18:59 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id GAA32361; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 06:38:33 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 06:38:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 06:41:49 -0800 (PST) From: William Beaty To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: WHERE GIFS GO WHEN THEY VANISH In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pTfvC1.0.Yv7.dFWyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1810 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Evan Soule wrote: > Note -- > > A number of individuals have been privately emailing me to inquire about > receiving the rest of the gifs depicting the Magnetic Fields in > Attraction/Repulsion. > > I've been endeavoring to post several gifs since yesterday morning to the > list but they seem to simply 'disappear' -- and no "bounce-back" messages > of any kind... The messages were larger than 40K because of header info (which can be about 1K-2K). To sneak a message under the 40K limit, the attached file plus the message itself must total less than 40K. Better to post GIFs on a webpage, or send them individually. The 40K limit is there because the list server sw would strangle if everyone started sending GIFs instead of the normal email messages (which are typically 1k to 10k). There are over 200 people on freenrg-L, so sending a normal 200K gif would suddenly dump 40megs of email load on the eskimo.com server, and email would be delayed a bit. But if all the lists at eskimo (I think there are a couple of hundred) were sending GIFs, then email would suffer many days delay. One thing you CAN do. Send your GIFs, and they will bounce to the current month's archive file. Download the whole file, clip the particular messages out, and read them with your email program to extract the attachments. .....................uuuu / oo \ uuuu........,............................. William Beaty voice:206-781-3320 bbs:206-789-0775 cserv:71241,3623 EE/Programmer/Science exhibit designer http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/ Seattle, WA 98117 billb@eskimo.com SCIENCE HOBBYIST web page From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 31 11:15:39 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id KAA20781; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:50:00 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 10:50:00 -0800 Message-ID: <32F1F92C.D12@tiac.net> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:52:44 +0000 From: Bob Shannon Reply-To: bshannon@tiac.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Secod law violation? References: <970130175331_647943154@emout20.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gDRyd2.0.Y35.DxZyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1811 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: AdamGrosmn@aol.com wrote: > > >>>Fine, prove it to be so! Please let me know what you think of my recent > post over freenrg-l on this subject, which outlines yet another clear > violation of the second law.>>> > You don't understand! The second law CAN be broken locally....but entropy > must increase globally. Mr. Grossman, I fully understand this point, and agree. But you seem to fail to see that I have provided a clear example of order increasing, without any known increase in entropy. You may insist that there must be one somewhere, but I ask you to find out where in order to support your claims. > Just take our bodies for example. This is a clear > violation of the the second law until you start to think: All the food we > take in and all the air and other energy sources is to just maintain that > order in our bodies....not to make new order. Now compare this to the > disorder we create in doing this...all the waste we give off, all the heat. YOu seem to assume that our waste does not contain order. Biological 'waste' is highly ordered, and is not wasted, as net biomass increases. In fact, nature see to it that biological waste is consumed and reused. > It is MUCH more disorder then order. Now think of a house. It is ordered (Al > least somewhat) but think of all the energy that had to go into it. THe > chopping down od trees (There was gas in bulldozers that was burnt) is > disorder as it the means or chopping them down. All the materials have been > created with a big release of disorder. You people don't seem to understand > what is going on. YOu think: Oh! THe human body is order! THe Second Law is > wrong!! But no, there has been a lot more disoerder and energy going into the > making of that order. > -Adam Grossman The second law is not wrong, it applied to closed systems, which biological systems simply are not. Also, there is no metric for order or disorder, so how then can you support the claim that 'a lot more' disorder is produced? From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 31 15:42:29 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id PAA04584; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:28:13 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:28:13 -0800 Message-ID: <32F2830C.4E45@ix.netcom.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 15:41:00 -0800 From: Phil Gantt Reply-To: pgantt@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Newman and Testatika principles=equals ! References: <199701301647.LAA09726@w3.bluegrass.net> <32F1433D.18DE@plix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sLN5U.0.X71.B0eyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1813 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: Dorman, Robert wrote: > > Sam Gordon wrote: > snip > > The main question is now: > > > > How do I get a capacitor, which can change over time from > > say: 500 mikro Farad to 10000 mikro Farad ? > > > > Is there any possibility to build such a "dynamic" capacitor > > other than using different capacitor plate distances ? > > > > How about controlling the capacitance of a cap without > > mechanical plate dimension, but via an electrostatic or magnetic > > field to alter the dielectricum inside a capacitor ? > > > > Has something like this already be invented ? > > > > If yes, I could think of a totally static "nonmoving" overunity > > generator ! > I seem to recall from my Network Analysis and Synthesis course in > college that there is something called a gyrator that electronically > "produces" or magnifies inductances or capacitances (often to very high > values). It's been so many years that I don't recall the details of how > they are made; something about an operational amplifier in or with a > feedback loop, I believe. > > There are also capacitors (small values--sorry) whose capacitance > changes with applied voltage. One might use something like this in an > FM modulator circuit. > > --Bob Dorman You must have taken the same course that I did! The gyrator is implemented with an INIC (current negative impedance converter). National Semiconductor's Linear Applications handbooks has some circuits for this type of implementation. -- Phil Gantt And in the end the Love you take is equal to the Love you make. ***Lennon/McCartney*** http://www.netcom.com/~pgantt/intro.html (updated 1/24/97) From freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Fri Jan 31 19:02:20 1997 Received: (from smartlst@localhost) by mx1.eskimo.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) id SAA15954; Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:51:27 -0800 Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 18:51:27 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Feb 1997 14:21:04 +1100 Message-Id: <199702010321.OAA30583@main.murray.net.au> X-Sender: egel@main.murray.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com From: Geoff Egel Subject: Re: AIDS virus is electrosensitive Resent-Message-ID: <"D9ZUw3.0.4v3.j-gyo"@mx1> Resent-From: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Reply-To: freenrg-l@eskimo.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1814 X-Loop: freenrg-l@eskimo.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: freenrg-l-request@eskimo.com Status: O X-Status: At 10:21 PM 27/01/97 -0800, you wrote: > >This has nothing to do with FE, but is interesting enough to be posted here. > >I've just seen a program on public TV channel (KBTC) about the AIDS virus >being sensitive to electric current. They showed electron microscope >photographs of the virus subjected to 1 hour of 2 uA at 30 V. (in nylon >tube apx. 3mm ID, 100mm long). The protein envelope distortion was quite >apparent. (in comparison with a control sample) > >The narrator claimed that exposure to electric current and subsequent >distortion of the virus' envelope makes the virus more susceptible to the >human immune system. This electrosensitivity was apparently noticed after >some hospital patients using TENS units for muscle rehabilitation tested >negative for HIV after previous positive test. If this is true this method >probably could be applied in vivo without discomfort to the patient >considering the low current necessary for the virus's protein enveloped >distortion. The best path for the current flow is through major blood >vessels in legs or arms encompassing the largest blood volume (ie. from >ankle to ankle). One would have to reverse the polarity of the current >once in a while to prevent skin irritation caused by electrolysis. > >I remember reading somewhere that telephone repairmen are a group of people >that are the most often subjected to low level electrical shock. Maybe >somebody should do a statistical study to see if their HIV >infection/remission rate is lower/higher. I bet no pharmacological company >will sponsor such study :-) > > >Just an interesting foot note Here in Australia we have a virus called the ross river virus that can be pretty bad when you get it Aching joints that last for months and other syptoms etc It seems a farmer who had caught the virus was setting up his sheep electrical fence for stock control and then got a zap from the wire . About two weeks later all traces of the virus had gone. This I would have not taken any notice off but I have heard of other similiar incidents. I notice if I get The flu some zaps from van de graff tends to lessen the effects of it. maybe just my imagination or the placebo effect but who cares if I don't suffer. Geoff Egel email egel@main.murray.net.au http://www2.murray.net.au/users/egel